Hello I’m new here but have been reading posts for the last couple of weeks. It’s good to know that I am not alone and that there are others with similar stories. Here’s why I am here….(please bare with my typing and rambling)
Not sure where to start as my life has been turned upside down. Six weeks ago I found my w with om from her past having an ea. She says it was not pa yet. After the initial blow I couldn’t believe what she was saying. “I want to be with him and not you”, “we were done a long time ago.” This wasn’t the woman that I had married. We have been married for 8 yrs and together for 13. We have two beautiful daughters 3 and 5. I know we have had problems for some time now and she even called an A last fall but I had no idea that this was coming. We were doing better, I had thought. So I asked her to go to a mc with me and we did the following day where she dropped the ILUBINILWU bomb and “there was no connection between us anymore” and she had been unhappy for some time now. I couldn’t believe it when the mc told her, that if she wasn’t happy then she should leave and be with him and “sounds like your using this ea as a bridge to leave this marriage.” I was speechless! I tried to tell her that I can change and all she said is that “you can’t guarantee that and I only live once.” She told me that she thought it would be better if she started new with the om and she doesn’t want to hurt him so she moved out to a family members the next day with the girls. I was a wreck. I knew I couldn’t stop her so I just begged and chased her for the next week like a fool, which just made her angry and pushed her farther away. She is a huge cake eater and she even said it at one point ” I want my cakeand want to eat it to.” I found out that she had dropped the girls off one day at mil and I went there and tried to talk to her.It was really awkward. My w showed up a while later with a big vase of flowers in the front seat from the date with om. At that point she wouldn’t even talk to me unless it was about “when are you going to take the girls.” It was hard for me to spend time with the girls though as I knew she was just dropping them off so she could be with om. I was real emotional and couldn’t give them 100% that they deserve. I couldn’t hide it no matter how hard I tried. I ended up going to the doctors and got on some AD’s. It was three weeks after I found them that she dropped the other bomb that she had signed the papers! I was devastated, and felt like I had part of me die that day. I won’t ever forget the cold look on her face as she told me right in front of the girls when she picked them up after i had them all weekend. She even told me that she doesn’t feel guilty at all and I believe it as I have yet to see her shed a tear through all of this. I didn’t say anything and just turned and walked away as she drove off. I called her later to see if she was willing to talk without the kids and she agreed. We met and I asked her if she was still seeing the om and she was silent. She then told me she will never tell me the truth ever. I cried like a baby and was, yet again, in disbelief that this could be my wife that I love so much. I had a hard time that night. Thoughts of suicide and everything. I have been going to counseling every week , talking to family, and have yet to have a day go by where I don’t shed tears. It was then when I found Stop your Divorce and started pulling away from her and stopped the I love you’s and begging. Started working out again, doing things around the house, and spending time with the girls. I was doing well for about a weekand then I had a huge slip when I had been balling and called to say goodnight to the girls and started begging, she got angry again and was yelling at me "we are done” and that I need to move on. I found this site shortly after that and bought a copy of TDR and started working on my GALing the next day. I still don't know what to do with the hearing only 2 months away....to little to late?
MrMom,
There are a lot of people on these boards who will take exception to the notion that it is ever really too late to bust a divorce. Your sitch sounds dire, and most are, but there is hope as long as you want to believe that there is hope. Your W is in the middle of an A-fueled euphoria. Nothing that you can say or do right now is going to have any positive effect. What you say and do can have a negative effect, as you have seen. What you need to do is start following what the books in your possession, and the advice that you are reading here on these boards is telling you to do: detach and work on yourself and your kids right now. GAL! Stop pursuing, crying, begging, doing R talks and the like. You are driving her away with that kind of behavior.
You will hear this a lot: you can't change her, nor can you change her thinking. All you can do is take care of yourself and your kids. As usually are not the panacea that the WAS thinks they are in the beginning. They are "in love" and so they have all the endorphin-crazed feelings, but as they newness of the A wears off, she will discover that the grass really isn't greener over there. Think about it: your W is leaving her primary relationship to be with this OM. This OM knows she is M, right? And still he is pursuing? Sounds like a match made in hell if you ask me. Once they start being themselves with each other, and come down off of their pedestals that they have placed each other on, you will have a chance to effect some change, but only if you start making the improvements in your own character, and life that will be attractive to your W. You may even find that after getting a life and becoming a stellar Mr. Mom to your kids that you, and not her, becomes the WAS.
In the short-term, keep your chin up; exude a positive attitude and stop the pursuit. Be happy when she is around and fawn over your kids. Be the perfect Dad for them, and become the better man for yourself. You can do it! keep posting here for advice and keep updating us with your sitch. Good luck friend.
PortlandDad, Thank you so much for helping shed light on this and your kind words.
I haven't lost hope. That and taking care of my girls and myself (and our dogs) is all i have now. I have come to realize that. Its been hard to detach though as I see her every day when we transfer the kids.
Mr. Mom....you may need to protect yourself from seeing her for child drop off. Could you ask her to drop off the kids at a relative or friends house so you can avoid seeing her? The point here is so that you can garner your strength and not breakdown with sadness again every time you have to see her. This is not unusual for couples to do. Sometimes they do it so as not to cause fights in front of the kids. You both do need to sheild the kids from your own emotions to an extent.
Sorry you are hear and you sound so devastated...my heart goes out to you.
DQ
Keep on reading threads here, you will find tools and comfort.
Thank you DK
I think I will try to have my mother take them for the switch.
Thank you JKL
I have lots to learn and will be doing a lot of reading.
I met W at her work this afternoon as planned to pick up the girls and she handed me the D papers right in front of the girls. She had been to the house and said she found them on the door. The only thing she said was "At least they didn't go to your work." I just said great and acted as if. Put a big smile on for the girls and scooped them up and headed. Said bye peacefully and left it at that. I'm on the search for an attorney now. Court date is 8/5. I really don't know what else to do at this point.
I'm trying my best to put all of this aside for the girls. I have to admit that I cant be 100% still. We had a great time last night though. Went to the playground then went to grandmas for dinner and then home and baked cookies. They love to cook with me. (why they call me MR Mom) Bath time and then stories. My oldest is turning into a great reader now. Seems like yesterday that she just started to talk. Her first word was "Da" in the carseat when we were driving.
Talked to an A today and was told to "hold on and its going to be a rough ride" as her A is known to be a real shark. I still can’t believe this is happening. Not only loosing my best friend, my family and now I find out that I will have to put the house up for sale and find a new home for the four dogs. And to top that the value of the house is less then what we owe due to buying it right before the economy crash. I really feel lost here. I know if I try to reason with her it will just fall on deaf ears and just make her angry. She is just so obsessed that she’s not even there. Any support/advice would be really appreciated.
Just my 2 cents, but your W sees you the way you're seeing yourself ... as a Mr. Mom. What she's looking for is a "MAN". The reason I say that is because of the way she's been disrespecting you. For some reason, our WASs enjoy belittling the LBS and making them appear to be the bad guy.
The first thing they do is to do what a bully would do. To start seeing the victim as someone of a lesser value than them. You'll find it all over the boards here. Well the first thing you need to do is "man-up" and get the respect from her back. You need to take the control away from her and put it back in your hands. She's controlling your life like a puppet master or a worm wriggling around on a hook. Dig in and put your foot down.
The thing that stops us LBSs from asserting ourselves is the same thing that is driving our WAWs...FEAR. We are afraid of pushing them away or getting them mad so we don't say anything. In the meantime, they walk all over us like a bully. Well, the one way to stop bullying behavior is to stand up to it.
You'll find out from other posters on the boards that once the LBS stood up to their spouses by laying boundaries and taking back their control, the spouse would often start to soften.
So no begging, pleading, crying, etc. and take back the control of your life. Start applying the DB principles by changing what you can and want to change. Make mini goals and take it one step at a time. Change takes time.
Become a better man than the OM she's infatuated with right now. Become larger than life for you and your kids. You can do it.
Well put Stuck. Makes me realize how I have been acting like a fool. Its amazing what love will make you do.
You're not a fool, it's just that we all change over time and forgot to nurture the things that should not have been neglected.
Hindsight is always 20/20. But now armed with the knowledge ammo you have, you have the chance to turn that boat around.
At first it will be like turning the course of the Titanic, but it can be done. Don't ever lose sight of that. First rule of DB is to stop blaming yourself. What's past is past and you can't change it. You also can't change your W. You can only change yourself in the here and now.
What kind of things first attracted your W to you in the first place? See if that can be re-created. Most importantly, grow yourself and just take things one day at a time.
You're not a fool, it's just that we all change over time and forgot to nurture the things that should not have been neglected.
Yes, and I think the key here is time. Its easy to loose track as time slips by.
What kind of things first attracted your W to you in the first place? See if that can be re-created. Most importantly, grow yourself and just take things one day at a time.
I think this follows with your other comment. People change over time as do what they find desirable. I honestly don't know what she saw in me when we first hooked up. There was a connection though. We used to talk a lot. We were best friends and did everything together. She claims that the OM can listen to her talk to him and open up to her, "more emotional." I have never been good at this and honestly never realized how much I kept to myself. I see it now but as you stated "Hindsight is always 20/20." With that said, I feel as though I can leave from this a better person no matter what happens.
WAW has had the kids the last couple of days and i have detached and have not called or talked to her about anything. I waited for her to call which she did and I didn't pick up and then called her back about an half hour later after figuring out what I was going to say. Told her sorry that I missed her call but I was busy. All we talked about was the kids and when and where we were going to make the exchange. Its seems that this is just pushing her farther and farther away. She seemed happy that I didn't talk to her much. She made it clear she didn't even want to talk to me at all when she got there. Shes making it real hard for me to hang onto any hope.
NOTHING that you say or do will change her mind right now, man! I know it's hard and you feel like it's 'pushing' her farther away, but it's not! She's already 'gone' right now...you decreasing communication with her right now is the BEST thing for YOU...it'll help you detatch. There's always hope, if you're willing to hang in there. You need to STOP focusing on her RIGHT NOW...and start focusing on you! She's 'in the fog' right now, and she will not come out of it until she decides to on her own. You have no say so anymore, you have no control over her anymore. I know it's tough to hear these things, and I know it hurts. You can not control her thoughts, feelings, or actions...so don't bother. You CAN control your thoughts, feelings, and actions...so do it! This is a marathon, not a sprint. Buckle in, buckle down, and get tough...read, learn, become a better man and a better father. You CAN do it. Focus on you, your child, and your job. You CAN do this. I know how bad it hurts, and I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this. It happens. There are lots of us here.
Your right Antlers, she is gone and I need to stop thinking about it. Thank you for the support, at a time when I need it most. Today I found out that she has been bringing the kids around him. they told me about him and the playground and ice cream after. The one thing that I asked her is to not bring the kids around him. She really has no respect for me. I'm trying my hardest not to loose it and call her and say WTF.
Man, you are dealing with a different person right now...she is not the person that you fell in love with and married. She is 'in the fog' and she can justify anything that she does right now...regardless of how wrong it is. Don't call her! Be the best father that you can be for your kids. Do not mention their mother, or anybody else to your kids. You're in a tough spot, and I know that it hurts so bad! Detatch from her...you have no control over her thoughts, feelings, or actions...so don't bother trying. You do have control over your thoughts, feelings, and actions...so exercise that control! Stay here and learn, read, and get support. Become the best man and the best father you can be. Focus on your kids and your job and yourself....NOTHING ELSE! I'm sorry. If you don't want to give up hope...then don't! But detatch.
She is definitely not the same person now. I cant believe she would put even her own kids aside for him. She wouldn't even like to go to work for the afternoon without seeing them and now shes going days without even calling! I'm beginning to wonder if she even wants custody at all as they are just getting in her way of having fun and being "free". I haven't given up hope but it just seems to be getting harder to hang onto as each day goes by.
She also seems so different because your perspective is skewed! You're not seeing her with a completely rational mind right now either! She is a different person right now...for sure. Don't bother trying to change her, or her mind right now. You can't! She's so screwed up that she's neglecting her kids. They go through a tremendously selfish mode...where it's all about them. And they don't feel bad about what they're doing either...they are completely justified...in their mind...warped as it is. So, you have to focus on you and your kids and your job. I know it's hard, and I know it hurts. It SUCKS...but that's where you're at right now. I'm sorry. I know you hate it...understandably! If you still care and are able...don't give up hope...but let go and detatch.
Antlers, words (at least mine) cant describe how much you are helping me and others right now. Thank you for being here but I'm sorry at the same time after reading your sitch. My prayers are with you.
The girls and I had a ball today. Went to the store then the playground and back home for fun in the garden. My oldest saw my wedding band on the counter that I had been wearing up until the day before and asked "Dad why are you not wearing your wedding ring?" I was speechless at first but came up with that I was working in the garden so i took it off. She just shrugged and went along her business. I had gone out with some friends the night before and had taken it off. Something I hadn't done in a long time. If I wasn't working I was always watching the kids so she could or we were doing our weekly date out which over the years had turned into grocery shopping and sometimes a swing though walmart. I know, sad right...one of the larger reasons I am were I am today. My MIL would come over and watch the kids and we would always feel guilty for having her stay with them so we would always just go do the shopping for the week while we didn't have the kids and just go back home to relieve her. Nothing romantic about grocery shopping.
Back to my night out with friends, we ended up at a bar. I don't drink anymore after this all happened but never really drank much anyway but it always bothered the W because she has family members that are alcoholics. Ended up playing pool which I hadn't played it in years and had a blast. Actually did good considering. Lost all three games I played but they were all close. Over all I was doing good until I saw a couple hugging and kissing and all I could think of was how my W and OM are doing that and ended up leaving because of it. It was my first real attempt at GAL'ing and I know that even though it ended on a sour note that it was a good step for me.
Today with the kids was great. Went to the farm and played with all the animals and then out to eat. We stopped at the playground on the way back and there was a very attractive woman there with two girls about the same age as mine. They all played together and had fun while us grown ups talked. Turns out she is a LBS to. It felt good to talk to someone and not have the feeling of guilt that my wife will find out. It didn't go anywhere because I don't think I'm ready to go out dating yet but it sure was a confidence booster. So much so that when the WAW called later I told her that I will be dropping the kids off at my mothers and she could pick them up from there and I wont be there as I had stuff to do. Well this was a trigger for her cause she threw a fit and got angry and started yelling and swearing on the phone. I just held it all back and said "I'm sorry you feel that way." This just made her even hotter and she told me that I was suggesting that I didn't want her at the house anymore while I wasn't there and I told her "well, you did move out." I am regretting that statement (just a little) because what she said next was unreal. She was so angry that she just started throwing anything in her bag of tricks at me. I'm sure while an audience in the background watched in disbelief. She threatened to come over with OM and take what ever she wanted from our house. I just said nothing because there is nothing I could come up with to say at this point that would have been productive. Then she said "WE are coming over to get the kids" as if to threaten me with the OM. At this point I just let go and said goodbye. I went and called the police to see if I could stop her from coming in the house and they said I cant unless I go to the district court and file for a no trespassing. Now I feel like I'm swimming upstream again. Totally out of control and cornered. I only want a little respect and was hoping that this was going to be a good step in that direction. Standing up for myself without being angry. I don't know what will happen now but I have no control over what she does anyway.
I'm afraid that after yesterdays events on the phone that I have taken a step backwards. She wants this more then ever now. I don't know what to do at this point. I think I have let my emotions get the best of me. I'm still hanging onto hope as I do truly love her but its getting harder as each day goes by.
I have found that to "lovingly detach" is very difficult for me in my sitch with someone so full of anger and resentment. I have been trying to communicate nicely to her but she is all about conflict and seems to thriving on it. I'm beginning to wonder if she has BPD. Could it be? Does anyone know what other signs there are?
Mr. Mom,
You keep saying that "she wants this more than ever now" as if what you say has a bearing on her. Let me tell you one thing, You cannot change her, you can only change yourself.
One of two things will happen if you change into a happy, confident MAN, a better MAN than you were before. One, she will delay the divorce, or two, You will be better prepared for the divorce.
I know it is hard, but do not believe that there is no effect on her if you change for the better using the techniques that are here. This can only be done however, if you really make the changes for yourself.
Kinda weird I know, but do you get what I am saying?
Burt
Burt's right! If one person changes, the relationship changes...there's no way getting around it! That's the dynamics of it.
Hey Mr. Mom. It is amazing how much of myself I see in your posts. If a friend of mine knew I was on this board, they probably would have thought this thread was mine. I even pondered whether or not my wife was bi-polar as well. I can't offer much insight into that (other than to say, probably not). What I can say is that the most powerful action you can take is to detach. I think for everyone on this board there are different areas of emphasis -- GAL, 180, detach. IMO you need to focus on detachment. You need to visualize a divorced life, without your wife, with your daughters. You need to see a pathway there and see yourself as happy and content there. You need to accept that future to avoid being paralyzed by fear. I went through it (am going through it) and I can tell you it is so empowering for you, and at the same point it will not go unnoticed. The first time she realizes you can walk on without her, she will tremble at the thought of what that really means.
Hi Mr Mom - It is so unfair right now for you. Your W and OM are most likely working together as a team. Her anger towards you is so unjustified, but it is all part of cake eating - having the best of both worlds.
As others have said, you do need to detach, GAL and make yourself happy. However, you may need to take some legal protections in the meantime. It may be necessary to seperate some of the financial things and get something legal about her not being able to come and go from the house.
The 2 months before the hearing is not a lot of time, but you never can tell whether she might have some sort of awakening. I was much like you with the begging and trying to use logic only to receive anger back from my WAW. Towards the end of a year, she wanted back but I had decided that life was better without her as she had not changed and it would not have worked out.
Well she texted me yesterday afternoon and said she will have all of her cloths and belongings out of the house by the end of the week. I feel bad though because she has nowhere to bring the kids during the day but this is something she is going to have to figure out seeing how she made the decision to leave. I know shes just going to go running to OM house. I don't want the kids at his house but I cant let her keep walking all over me. I need to GAL and i will never be able to if she keeps controlling me.
I know it is hard, but do not believe that there is no effect on her if you change for the better using the techniques that are here. This can only be done however, if you really make the changes for yourself.
Kinda weird I know, but do you get what I am saying?
Burt
Yes, very weird and I'm struggling to find ways to change for the better for both my kids and myself. I just bought a new book called Connection Parenting. The last chapter is called "Connecting with Our Own Needs" where she talks about how children's needs are best met when we acknowledge and meet our needs first. I need to work on this because I have always put the family's needs first before my own. Thanks for the advice.
You need to visualize a divorced life, without your wife, with your daughters. You need to see a pathway there and see yourself as happy and content there. You need to accept that future to avoid being paralyzed by fear. I went through it (am going through it) and I can tell you it is so empowering for you, and at the same point it will not go unnoticed. The first time she realizes you can walk on without her, she will tremble at the thought of what that really means.
Wow, those are some great confidence inspiring words. I thank you for that.
oh, and by the way, I live about an hour from you. I actually had landed my dream job a few years back in a town just north of yours and I ended up turning it down and taking a lesser job nearby hear so we didn't have to move and the WAS could stay near MIL.
Hi Mr Mom - It is so unfair right now for you. Your W and OM are most likely working together as a team. Her anger towards you is so unjustified, but it is all part of cake eating - having the best of both worlds.
Oh yes, I'm sure he is telling and giving her everything she wants. I'm done being her puppet though. No more cake eating, this bakery is closing shop!
As others have said, you do need to detach, GAL and make yourself happy. However, you may need to take some legal protections in the meantime. It may be necessary to seperate some of the financial things and get something legal about her not being able to come and go from the house.
I'm working the the financial end of it and trying to stay civil at the same time. I don't want this to get ugly as I know she is expecting that from me.
The 2 months before the hearing is not a lot of time, but you never can tell whether she might have some sort of awakening. I was much like you with the begging and trying to use logic only to receive anger back from my WAW. Towards the end of a year, she wanted back but I had decided that life was better without her as she had not changed and it would not have worked out.
Handen't thought of it in that way. Who knows I might end up being the WAS.
Tonight has been a rough night. I picked the girls up at my mothers after the WAS called and said she didn't want to see me after the the way we have be acting and was dropping off the kids at my mothers. On the way home the girls told me all about the OM's house and how they went there the night before. I just tried to change the subject so I didn't have to hear anymore. It was like twisting a knife that was driven into me since this all has happened. Made me sick to my stomach.
WAS told me that plans for D2's birthday party has changed and said she was busy next weekend and wants to do it this weekend instead and not at our house as we had planned but at her family's house instead. I caved and just said sure even though I had made plans as it is my day with the kids. She didn't seem to care at all though.
I caved and just said sure even though I had made plans as it is my day with the kids. She didn't seem to care at all though.
"How's that workin' out for ya???"
I caved and just said sure even though I had made plans as it is my day with the kids. She didn't seem to care at all though.
"How's that workin' out for ya???"
No sh!t, a woman sure finds a little , say yes to everything, will always cave, , man very attractive.
I would never ever let that happen, in fact I would call her right now and say, you know what I am having this thing as I originally planned, you can do what you want on your time with them, but this is my time.
Good God man, FIND YOUR BALLS!
Burt
I know, I'm a weakling. How can I avoid these situations where I'm cornered and don't know what to say and just try and avoid conflict?
You DON'T avoid them. You CONFRONT them.
Confront your fears. Learn to "Do the Right Thing" instead of "Do What Doesn't Make Her Mad."
How?
Resolve to.
You DON'T avoid them. You CONFRONT them.
Confront your fears. Learn to "Do the Right Thing" instead of "Do What Doesn't Make Her Mad."
If "avoiding conflict" becomes your be-all/end-all, you will be lost before you start.
How?
Resolve to.
No sh!t, a woman sure finds a little , say yes to everything, will always cave, , man very attractive.
I would never ever let that happen, in fact I would call her right now and say, you know what I am having this thing as I originally planned, you can do what you want on your time with them, but this is my time.
Good God man, FIND YOUR BALLS!
Burt
You really think I should, man that will piss her off seeing how she already went out and bought all the supplies.
She already told the kids to of course so I think It wouldn't be fare to the kids at this point.
She is CONFUSED!!!
WAS's should have to wear a big sign that says
***WARNING - CONFUSED WAS. CAUTION. I HAVE NO FING IDEA WHAT IM DOING. PLEASE STAND CLEAR!!!! SIDE EFFECTS MAY VARY!!!!***
She has no idea what is BEST for your FAMILY. If she did she wouldn't be WALKING AWAY. You NEED to READ HOLD ON TO YOUR NUTS. And figure out what YOURS are and HOLD to them.
She has YOU convinced that YOU are why she is doing this. DONT let her MANIPULATE AND CONTROL YOU anymore. She will be MAD but dont give a FLIP she is wanting OUT not YOU!!! Were NOT saying be MEAN. You just NEED to be "matter of fact". "I understand that you are upset but this is my time and I already made plans..." What about YOUR TIME YOUR SCHEDULE???
HOLD THE LINE!!!! SHE DOESNT RESPECT YOU!!!! YOU NOW NEED TO GAIN BACK THAT RESPECT BY STANDING UP TO HER!!!
I AGREE!!! CALL HER AND TELL HER THAT YOU ARE NOT CHANGING YOUR PLANS. THE CHILDREN NEED STABILITY!!!
Stand tough!!! PMA
On the way home the girls told me all about the OM's house and how they went there the night before. I just tried to change the subject so I didn't have to hear anymore. It was like twisting a knife that was driven into me since this all has happened. Made me sick to my stomach.
Seems like deja vu for me. My W had asked me before if it was OK to introduce the kids to OM. I told her absolutely not. It was several weeks later that I found out from the kids that she took them over to his house and was kissing in front of them. That crossed the line for me and I filed for a D and got a protective retraining order so as to keep the status quo of the kids living with me.
Sounds to me like she is not giving you much respect. It is up to you to become stronger and not be a push over.
Definitely read the Hold on to your NUTs book by Levin.
THE CHILDREN NEED STABILITY!!!
What's best for the potential future between you and your W is not the same as what's best for your kids. Indecision is a knife in their heart that will make permanent damage... It has aready started.
Focus on the kids and everything else will work out.
If I do that it will sure cause a lot of drama throughout the entire family. This is something I wouldn't have not had a problem doing before this all happened. Shes was probably expecting me to tell her no and actually I did at first and her exact words were "You don't want to play that game" and I said that I could reschedule.
It may indeed be too late to change the party back, but next time something like that happens, dont back down.
So let me get this straight: the person who does NOT have the marriage's (and, by extension, the family's) best interests at heart right now, is the one you're letting call all the shots?
Not very wise.
Puppy
If I do that it will sure cause a lot of drama throughout the entire family. This is something I wouldn't have not had a problem doing before this all happened. Shes was probably expecting me to tell her no and actually I did at first and her exact words were "You don't want to play that game" and I said that I could reschedule.
Wow! Ok. And her having an AFFAIR and ripping apart the family is not causing DRAMA?!? Seriously? I know this isn't easy, but I wish someone would have woken me up along time ago like we are trying to WAKE UP!!! Time to take back what is LAWFULLY YOURS. YOUR MARRIAGE YOUR FAMILY YOUR WIFES RESPECT!!! What would you say to your kids if it was 25 yrs in the future and this was happening to one of them???
What would you say to your kids if it was 25 yrs in the future and this was happening to one of them???
PMA,
I love this standard. It -- along with "The Right Thing to Do" -- are the signposts by which I think one should govern their DBing efforts.
My wife and I took a Christian parenting class once, and one of the teachers -- a woman -- talked about telling her teenaged daughter that "I'm more concerned with what the 30-year old you is going to think 15 years from now than what you think right now." Her daughter asked her WTH that meant, and the woman said "I don't want you coming to me when you're 30, and saying 'Mom, what the heck were you THINKING????' (letting me do that)"
Food for thought.
Puppy
If I do that it will sure cause a lot of drama throughout the entire family. This is something I wouldn't have not had a problem doing before this all happened. Shes was probably expecting me to tell her no and actually I did at first and her exact words were "You don't want to play that game" and I said that I could reschedule.
Wow! Ok. And her having an AFFAIR and ripping apart the family is not causing DRAMA?!? Seriously? I know this isn't easy, but I wish someone would have woken me up along time ago like we are trying to WAKE UP!!! Time to take back what is LAWFULLY YOURS. YOUR MARRIAGE YOUR FAMILY YOUR WIFES RESPECT!!! What would you say to your kids if it was 25 yrs in the future and this was happening to one of them???
This is true, I have to do something. I wont be able to ever get any respect if I don't.
Mr. Mom,
The day you begin to respect YOURSELF will be the day that others will begin to respect you.
Do the Right Thing.
Puppy
That crossed the line for me and I filed for a D and got a protective retraining order so as to keep the status quo of the kids living with me.
Sounds to me like she is not giving you much respect. It is up to you to become stronger and not be a push over.
I'm not quite sure how to do this and my A is not answering the phone. If I fill for a restraining order I will have to show proof. The only proof I have is the kids telling me this.
There is a saying around here...
Strength and Honor - strong to do the right thing even if it hurts you and honor to always do the right thing.
I'm not quite sure how to do this and my A is not answering the phone. If I fill for a restraining order I will have to show proof. The only proof I have is the kids telling me this.
It sounds like you already have a parenting plan in place as to the kids time. No need for any restraining order.
You do probably need to let your L know about the kids being around OM. I am not sure what state you are in so I dont know if adultery applies, but regardless, showing promiscuous behavior in front of children is not going to sit well in divorce proceedings.
Are you just having a difficult time now getting hold of your L or is it a pattern of lack of responses? You have to remember that you need to schedule talks with your L as they have other cases. Your L works for you and if you are not satisfied, you can always find another L.
Your L mentioned that your W's L was a real "Shark". Does your L have confidence in negotiating with a "Shark"?
ok, I think I need to calm down a little as I just got into this "Must do something NOW" emotionally driven mood. You guys got me all worked up. Standing and pacing, heart racing. I don't want to do anything irrational but at the same time I'm not going to stand aside and let her endanger the kids. I need to find something less drastic but as direct. Ideas?
Your L mentioned that your W's L was a real "Shark". Does your L have confidence in negotiating with a "Shark"?
Yes she has two cases with him currently. Told me she is not intimidated by his loud voice and cases are won by evidence alone not an angery loud L.
Oh you definitely dont want to do anything you might regret with emotions running high. Besides this forum, do you have a close friend to talk things over with?
I think the most important attitude to have now is to not worry about making her mad. Her anger will calm down just as your emotions you are having now will taper off.
ok, I think I need to calm down a little as I just got into this "Must do something NOW" emotionally driven mood. You guys got me all worked up. Standing and pacing, heart racing. I don't want to do anything irrational but at the same time I'm not going to stand aside and let her endanger the kids. I need to find something less drastic but as direct. Ideas?
OK. First thing you NEED to learn is how to act "calm and collected". You NEED to teach yourself how to NOT REACT EMOTIONALLY anymore. YOU NEED to learn how to LET GO OF CONTROL. Tell yourself that YOU are the ONLY thing you can CONTROL. You have to let her go. LET GO and LET GOD!!!! Learn to ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES. Im guessing like a lot of us here you have done that in the past.
First go for a long walk. Then sit down and figure out what you want. Besides your W back. Which isn't going to happen right now. In 6 mons who knows. Write down on a piece of paper what YOU think is best for your girls. What type of parenting schedule do you have already? No write down your list of goals. For today for this week? Months? etc... How are you going to use this time away from your W and your M to better yourself? Be a better father? Husband? Son? Brother? etc. What CHANGES are YOU going to make? Write about why you think your marriage fell apart. What could have been done differently? What advice would you give to a friend that was going through the same thing you are?
God Speed. PMA
Yes she has two cases with him currently. Told me she is not intimidated by his loud voice and cases are won by evidence alone not an angery loud L.
Sounds optimistic!
Are the L's actively negotiating back and forth right now so as to hopefully avoid a costly court battle?
It's a shame that your W picked a "shark". My W had an ambulance chaser at first but then got a more experienced guy that worked in a very professional manner with my L. We were able to settle everything without the court getting involved.
I wish you did not have to go through this crap right now, but I can say it does get better. And I have seen a case here (gForce) where it got right up to the day of the D being final and his wife changed her mind. They are still happily married with their first baby together on the way.
OK. First thing you NEED to learn is how to act "calm and collected". You NEED to teach yourself how to NOT REACT EMOTIONALLY anymore. YOU NEED to learn how to LET GO OF CONTROL. Tell yourself that YOU are the ONLY thing you can CONTROL. You have to let her go. LET GO and LET GOD!!!! Learn to ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES. Im guessing like a lot of us here you have done that in the past.
First go for a long walk. Then sit down and figure out what you want. Besides your W back. Which isn't going to happen right now. In 6 mons who knows. Write down on a piece of paper what YOU think is best for your girls. What type of parenting schedule do you have already? No write down your list of goals. For today for this week? Months? etc... How are you going to use this time away from your W and your M to better yourself? Be a better father? Husband? Son? Brother? etc. What CHANGES are YOU going to make? Write about why you think your marriage fell apart. What could have been done differently? What advice would you give to a friend that was going through the same thing you are?
God Speed. PMA
Thanks PMA, this seems like a good strategy. Some of these I have been doing. I need to work more on my short term goals and I haven't taken the time to right down about the marriage and why we are we we are at today. I'm going to read DR again tonight and then start writing.
Are the L's actively negotiating back and forth right now so as to hopefully avoid a costly court battle?
No, not as of now and actually I don't even think WAS knows I have one. I have been holding back in hopes of saving money as she emptied the bank before I could get there. When she first wanted this she said she was willing to just walk away with leaving me with it all except the car and personal things. Oh, and the tread mill. Boy she has changed her mind now.
It's a shame that your W picked a "shark". My W had an ambulance chaser at first but then got a more experienced guy that worked in a very professional manner with my L. We were able to settle everything without the court getting involved.
Wow that's great. Unfortunately I don't see that happening in my sitch. Today anyway.
I wish you did not have to go through this crap right now, but I can say it does get better. And I have seen a case here (gForce) where it got right up to the day of the D being final and his wife changed her mind. They are still happily married with their first baby together on the way.
Wow, and I was thinking about writing a book. This guys must have a best seller in his past. Good for them. Hope they hang in there.
You do probably need to let your L know about the kids being around OM. I am not sure what state you are in so I dont know if adultery applies, but regardless, showing promiscuous behavior in front of children is not going to sit well in divorce proceedings.
Very sadly the law does not protect the kids from this and its even socially and morally accepted in the so called "advanced" societies. We live in degenerate times. Just look at all the stories here. My W went on a cruise with the kids and OM and stayed in hotel rooms where she slept with OM in the presence of the kids. Apparently the D filing is license to do all this. In this system all we can do is check OURSELVES from this sort of behavior. Kerry's W is living with OM (Ed) and there's not a damn thing he can do about it other than go to the batting cage and hit a come run imagining Ed is the ball.
Ya, I cant believe it. She's acting like its no big deal. Like I was a used car that she traded in. You would think by the way she is acting that she has been with him for years and not weeks. I dread the day she brings him to get the kids or drop them off. I don't know how you do it Kerry. You must be very strong to not let you feelings take over a do what you could do. She talks about getting an apartment but I know I'm going to be sitting like Kerry with her living with OM.
As hard as it is not to think about that, you have to take care of and think of yourself and your kids.
You're just the lion protecting his territory. The OM isn't even worth your time and attention. I mean, how great can he be if he needs to take another person's W for his own ego?
Maybe you need to get a punching bag or something to get angry and focused. Get your aggression out that way and build up your confidence so you stand up to your W the next time.
I think it's important to do this now so that during the party you don't "cave". Build yourself up now and stand tall.
I hit the heavy bag, went to batting cages and golf driving range to get my mind off the situation.
My W also talked about getting an apartment, but it was actions that speak louder. She chose to live in the huge home of OM and drive his fancy cars instead. There really was no mistaking that she was a classic gold digger.
I get by with looking at the situation with some humor. Ed (OM) will be 69 in a couple months - XW is 38. The jokes kind of write themselves.
Once the kids started staying at Ed's place, I had to call him up and get a feel as to who he was. He seems like an ok guy and the kids get along with him fine. I do think it peculiar that when it is XW's weekend with the kids, she gets a babysitter so Ed and her can go out to nightclubs. That is her choice, and I think it weird only because when I have the kids, I cant imagine not spending all my time with them. I have them this Fri/Sat/Sun and we are going beach camping.
K - It's just a matter a time before he trades her in for a younger, newer model. Say hi to old man river for me. All that matters is what your kids think of you and the work you've done speaks for itself.
PMA
At 69, it is only a matter of time before father time catches up with him. If XW does not marry him by then, she is up a creek without a paddle.
Sooner or later there will be "car problems". Ed probably will need a new starter motor.
Today she came to the house and removed a lot of her stuff. Still hasn't taken her cloths or bath stuff though. One thing I couldn't figure out is that she took the time to wash a blanket.
--> Once the kids started staying at Ed's place, I had to call him up and get a feel as to who he was. He seems like an ok guy and the kids get along with him fine.
Kerry, Did you look into or do a background check on OM? I mean here's a stranger messing with your wife and your kids and your wife has shown poor judgement.
And how did you go about picking your L ?
(Sorry for hijack but hope its useful in general)
Hi fb2 - I never did a background check other than to find out Ed did commercial real estate development.
My cousin recommended to me the L he used for his divorce. He had a friend that is a lawyer head hunter and she recommended this L to him because he was high on the a$$ kicking scale and had worked family law since the 70's in town. I got the feeling that my lawyer was picky on which clients he would take. He seemed like he would not take someone that would use the kids as pawns in financial matters. He truely cared about the kids welfare first. We did the parenting/custody before any financial matters were discussed. He even encouraged us to use a mediator instead of his services so as to save us money. You may have your own opinion about divorce lawyers, but this guy was a class act.
I had met with another L before him just to get educated on divorce law. She never asked or concerned herself as to how the kids were doing. I think it was a big selling point for me that the L that I ultimately used gave me recommendations on how to help the kids cope - ie child counselors. He even gave me some vacation advice which I used last summer with the kids.
KK,
I give you credit for allowing that stuff to happen. My W's OM was 21 years older than her and I ripped into her for it. I told her that if she went after him that I would never let her see our Ds again. I told her I didn't want them near a "dirty" old man.
I think part of that shocked her into breaking up with him. Even though she felt he was the "love of her life". Yeah right!
Tks Kerry. With some quick internet searches I found that my W's current OM is 18 years older. And it looks like he's already capitalized on the money she got from the equity in my house and moved in with her even before the D is final. I want to run a background check on him because the guy called me once and threatened me and the kids are exposed but not sure how to go about it. I think these sorts of W's are not just gold diggers they are not a good role model for their kids and are putting their kids in danger.
-->
Kerry, Did you look into or do a background check on OM? I mean here's a stranger messing with your wife and your kids and your wife has shown poor judgement.
I absolutely did this. As a man, you have to protect your family.
http://www.intelius.comis a good source.
Puppy
Thanks Puppy, I was looking at the website yesterday. Did it yield anything useful that you could not have found out otherwise?
wow, thanks everyone. I cant believe I didn't think of doing it. I wish I knew his last name. She has been protecting him and not telling me anything about him. I do have his cell # though on our bill. Wonder if I could find out from that.
Yes, you can do a reverse search from ph# to name. I believe even cell numbers. If you know hist first and last name and the town/state then try Zabba Search (google it) to get an address. Once you get an address you can search county records for any property transactions. I was able to get a lot of info for free this way. The first thing is to get the right guy - First, Last, Middle initial - then you can correlate it with other info. If you can't get the name try to get a license plate#. But I agree with Puppy one has to take precautions when there are children involved - the court system is a joke.
Reverse phone number search is how I initially found out that my W was talking a lot with 2 different guys she met at the bars. I dont want to ever have that panic feeling ever again.
KK, I know that feeling your talking about and I'm sorry you had to go through that and hope you never have to again because it is truly a horrible feeling. I actually got sick right after I found them together and threw up in the car. I still get that gut wrenching feeling when I think about what they are doing together.
Thanks Puppy, I was looking at the website yesterday. Did it yield anything useful that you could not have found out otherwise?
Yes. Yielded home address of OM (turned out he still lived at home with his parents!). I also used it recently to reverse lookup a cellphone # that had been harassing my D20. Many reverse lookups are free, but some don't yield anything -- esp. cellphone #s. Intelius usually works for those.
Puppy
For some reason last night I thought it was a good idea to look at some old pictures that I hadn't seen in a long time. Big mistake. I think I should just take them out of the house so I'm not tempted again.
Today she came to the house and removed a lot of her stuff. Still hasn't taken her cloths or bath stuff though. One thing I couldn't figure out is that she took the time to wash a blanket.
What type of blanket? What color is it?
Dude. Seriously? Stop playing detective. It doesnt matter. You know about the other man so drop it and move on. It will just eat you alive from within.
Today she came to the house and removed a lot of her stuff. Still hasn't taken her cloths or bath stuff though. One thing I couldn't figure out is that she took the time to wash a blanket.
What type of blanket? What color is it?
Dude. Seriously? Stop playing detective. It doesnt matter. You know about the other man so drop it and move on. It will just eat you alive from within.
Your right, This has consumed my life. It seems to be all I think about. I run around the house when I know she has been there like a dumbass looking to see what she did of has taken. I even found myself looking in the recycled paper and trying to put papers back together that she shredded. I even had it spread out on the counter top when I stopped I said to myself "what the hell are you doing?" when I realized it doesn't matter and it was a waste of time.
We understand though! It's the most difficult crisis of your life! We CAN NOT control their thoughts, feelings, or actions...so it's futile to even try. But we CAN control our own thoughts, feelings, and actions...so we have to exercise control over what we can! I'm sorry you're going through this!
Well she just texted me and I'm not sure if I handled it right but she got right into the R talk. I dont know if I was to cold. I just didn't want to get sucked into the R talk. Reading what I typed after ,seems like I was just to busy. Not sure if it was the right thing to do. She did offer to put money in the bank for me so I make a payment on time which was nice of her.
Her: I will go to the house today and let the dogs out.
Her: after I stop at bank
Me: ok
Her: I don't know how much your bill is, but will $100 make the min. payment covered?
Me: thank you for washing the blanket. It was cold last night and needed it.
Me: not sure
Me: about the min payment but 100 will be fine
Me: thanks
Her: your welcome.
Her: i like it much better when we get along, instead of tension and fighting.
Her: I know things are tough, bu I reall don't want us to hate eachother.
Me: me to
Her: of course I can only control 1/2 of that.
Her: I will never hate you......but you will prob. ) seems lately (that you cannot stand me).
Her: it is okay for now, I kinda expect it, and I guess you have to go through it, I did.
Me: I'm sorry you feel that way
Me: I dont hate you
Her: hopefully you will come out the other side of that knowing that i love our girls so much, would NEVER do anything to hurt them, or put them at risk in anyway.
Her: In all of my life---their happiness is way more important than even my own.
Her: and I would like you to be happy too.
Me: I have to get back to work
Her: k
Me: My mom will be at the house tomorrow morning. I should be there by 10 but if you have plans she will be there to take the kids for me until I get back.
Me: bye
Her: bye
No, not as of now and actually I don't even think WAS knows I have one. I have been holding back in hopes of saving money as she emptied the bank before I could get there. When she first wanted this she said she was willing to just walk away with leaving me with it all except the car and personal things. Oh, and the tread mill. Boy she has changed her mind now.
Call that L now. Half of that money was yours and you need that half to hold up your end of the bargain as far your children are concerned.
OK. We all get it. She thinks she entitled, she's angry, she is going out swinging. She's following the WA script and it has VERY little to do with what you do or not, say or not.
Did you find those B*lls yet. I might be able to load you a brass set, with a serious down payment.
Cognitive Dissonance. Look it up. She has to be mean and nasty to avoid feeling any guilt. She has to militantly believe she is entitled.
While you are with that L, get yourself an injunction that she CAN NOT bring your children around the OM. It is in their best interests. You ARE NOT D yet, she is having an A, and it is detrimental for your children to be exposed to that.
She will be mad, you bet. But what is she going to do - leave you? Scream at you? (I'm sorry, I am willing to talk to you in a civil manner, but I am not willing to be screamed at. I will get off the phone if it continues. If it does say goodbye and get off the phone. Do not answer the phone if she calls right back.)
The first few months are hell, strap on those big boy briefs. Sorry you find yourself here, but you are in a place where everyone understand what you are going through.
Her: I will go to the house today and let the dogs out.
Her: after I stop at bank
Me: ok
Her: I don't know how much your bill is, but will $100 make the min. payment covered?
Me: thank you for washing the blanket. It was cold last night and needed it.
Me: not sure
Me: about the min payment but 100 will be fine
Me: thanks
Her: your welcome.
Her: i like it much better when we get along, instead of tension and fighting. (Yeah. Less GUILT for HER)
Her: I know things are tough, bu I reall don't want us to hate eachother. (THEN YOU SHOULDNT HAVE HAD AN AFFAIR AND BETRAYED MY TRUST. NOT PRODUCTIVE BUT TRUE)
Me: me to
Her: of course I can only control 1/2 of that. (TRUE)
Her: I will never hate you......but you will prob. ) seems lately (that you cannot stand me). (SEE ABOVE)
Her: it is okay for now, I kinda expect it, and I guess you have to go through it, I did. (YAA THINK!!!)Me: I'm sorry you feel that way
Me: I dont hate you (JUST WAIT! YOU WILL EVENTUALLY LET IT GO THOUGH)
Her: hopefully you will come out the other side of that knowing that i love our girls so much, would NEVER do anything to hurt them, or put them at risk in anyway.
Her: In all of my life---their happiness is way more important than even my own. (YEAH. RIGHT. I LOVE THIS ONE. GROWING UP IN 2 HOMES IS SO MUCH BETTER. WELL AT LEAST THEY WILL HAVE YOU AS A MORAL AND ETHICAL ROLE MODEL. CAN U TELL IM STILL BITTER)
Her: and I would like you to be happy too. (AS LONG AS SHE IS... HELPS WITH THE GUILT)Me: I have to get back to work
Her: k
Me: My mom will be at the house tomorrow morning. I should be there by 10 but if you have plans she will be there to take the kids for me until I get back.
Me: bye
Her: bye
Sorry for the hijack. It just brought back a lot of painful memories. The bottom line is that any WAS that does this is being selfish and will do anything to justify what they WANT. Hopefully, some day she will be WILLING to do the WORK that you are NOW DOING.
Stay strong! PMA
Call that L now. Half of that money was yours and you need that half to hold up your end of the bargain as far your children are concerned.
OK. We all get it. She thinks she entitled, she's angry, she is going out swinging. She's following the WA script and it has VERY little to do with what you do or not, say or not.
Did you find those B*lls yet. I might be able to load you a brass set, with a serious down payment.
Cognitive Dissonance. Look it up. She has to be mean and nasty to avoid feeling any guilt. She has to militantly believe she is entitled.
While you are with that L, get yourself an injunction that she CAN NOT bring your children around the OM. It is in their best interests. You ARE NOT D yet, she is having an A, and it is detrimental for your children to be exposed to that.
She will be mad, you bet. But what is she going to do - leave you? Scream at you? (I'm sorry, I am willing to talk to you in a civil manner, but I am not willing to be screamed at. I will get off the phone if it continues. If it does say goodbye and get off the phone. Do not answer the phone if she calls right back.)
The first few months are hell, strap on those big boy briefs. Sorry you find yourself here, but you are in a place where everyone understand what you are going through.
I just got off the phone with my L and she said there's nothing I can do unless I have something on him i.e criminal record, drugs, drinking, etc..
I still have some background research to do but I think this is going to take some time and digging/snooping because I don't know anyone that knows him.
Her: i like it much better when we get along, instead of tension and fighting.
Her: I know things are tough, bu I reall don't want us to hate eachother.
Me: me to
Her: of course I can only control 1/2 of that.
Her: I will never hate you......but you will prob. ) seems lately (that you cannot stand me).
Her: it is okay for now, I kinda expect it, and I guess you have to go through it, I did.
Me: I'm sorry you feel that way
Me: I dont hate you
Her: hopefully you will come out the other side of that knowing that i love our girls so much, would NEVER do anything to hurt them, or put them at risk in anyway.
Her: In all of my life---their happiness is way more important than even my own.
Her: and I would like you to be happy too.
Do you see how you stayed calm while she screamed at you, that she KNEW that she was being nasty. She thought about it afterward. She felt bad how she acted. Had you said anything to stir her up it would have gotten worse and she never would have thought she was acting unreasonably.
And it is great that she loves the children and says she is more worried about their happiness than her own. And no, you can't point out how her actions are so opposite what she should do if she really values their happiness.
I understand how you hurt, how its hard to believe, how you want another chance.... every feeling and thought you have right now.
Advice for the short-term:
1) Do not answer her call or call her if your emotions are not under control.
2) Start a journal. When you feel like calling her, or begging, or telling her that next magic thing that will change everything - do not actually call her but have at it with the journal.
3) Every night make a plan for what you are going to do the next day. Even if you don't FEEL like it right now, GAL and be busy. It will help.
4) Take notice of little things around you. A sunset, a sunrise, the blue sky, the birds, the smell of coffee, the sun shining on your kids while they play.
5) Start a gratefulness journal. Start at #1 and keep right on listing things you are grateful for numbered sequentially. This is hard at first, but it will show you parts of your life that ARE GOOD.
6) Read, take notes, work on your personal growth. If you need recommendations for books just ask. You will be inundated with suggestions. You really need to grow to get on with your life.
7) Forgive her. You may not be able to right away. I understand completely, but you should work to get there. Anger & bitterness is poison you do not want in your life.
8) As you grow, go back and read the journal in 2). You will know you have grown because you will be getting stronger and VERY thankful you journaled what you wrote instead of saying it to her.
9) Encourage your children and nurture their confidence. Never say anything bad about their mother to them. Let them know it is not their fault and you will always love them.
10) Make a list of all the hobbies or interests you had in the past, ever had an interest in, used to do or might do. Start at #1 and do them.
It does get better. I promise it does.
Great list Wifey. Thank you! It's definitely NOT easy, but it does get better.
Yes, great list thank you Wifey!
Her: hopefully you will come out the other side of that knowing that i love our girls so much, would NEVER do anything to hurt them, or put them at risk in anyway.
Her: In all of my life---their happiness is way more important than even my own.
Well she just texted me and I'm not sure if I handled it right but she got right into the R talk. I dont know if I was to cold. I just didn't want to get sucked into the R talk.
Better:
Her: I will go to the house today and let the dogs out.
Her: after I stop at bank
Me: ok
Her: I don't know how much your bill is, but will $100 make the min. payment covered?
(skip the blanket thing)
Me: not sure
Me: about the min payment but 100 will be fine
Me: thanks
Her: i like it much better when we get along, instead of tension and fighting.
Me: I agree; this is hard on everyone. ttyl, I gotta go, I'm running late.Puppy
Tomorrow is D3 birthday party and I have been thinking about how I'm going to deal with it. I haven't seen her family other then MIL since this all happened. I know I need to be strong and hold my cool for the girls but part of me wants to tell her dirty little secret to her family and let them all know about OM. This is the only time i will get the chance. Tempting...
Pray about it. If you're asked a direct question, take it as a sign and don't lie and answer the question truthfully. If you're not, then now is not the time.
Puppy
Well, went to the party and it went well. I kept my cool and didn't talk to WAW about anything other then the kids. I did however talk to her uncle who likes me and wants us to work it out. He said he knew what was going on and said the other family members knew also and didn't approve of it and want her to stop. He said that he hasn't talked to her and shes going to do what she wants so hes not going to step in her way. He made it clear that the OM will not be welcomed around his house. I think I might have screwed up though by telling him how I really feel because eventually it will get back to her.
That's so tough-when in laws say that they know but don't want to get involved. At least they will not make the OM welcome, that's extremely helpful. Family pressure does matter, imo.
That's so tough-when in laws say that they know but don't want to get involved. At least they will not make the OM welcome, that's extremely helpful. Family pressure does matter, imo.
Ya, when the say they don't want to pick sides but enable at the same time. That's the case for my sitch anyway. They know what she is doing is not right but yet they enable her to by watching the kids for her. I think that the women will welcome whomever she brings home but I know her uncle will not like him at his house.
Next week is our 8yr W anniversary. Not really looking forward to it. Its going to be tough day but I will have the kids to keep me busy and not thinking about it hopefully. I will not be looking at pictures! I will have the kids the entire weekend this week as she has "Plans" and cant take the kids. She asked me if I would take the kids on Friday and I said of course and then told her that I would be taking them on Sunday also because of the change in her plans last weekend. She agreed happily.
I am sure glad it is working out for her. How about next time saying you already have plans, sorry. Let her deal with single motherhood for awhile.
Burt
Its amazing what love will make you do.
Not true. It's amazing what FEAR will make you do - it amazing how FEAR hijacks your powers of reason, causes you to lose your self respect and to supplicate to an adulterous wife.
Mr Mom, stand up for yourself my friend - your wife will respect you when you start respecting yourself and taking the control away from her. Gather some incontrovertible evidence of her affair and use it at the court hearing to make sure your kids aren't allowed to have anything to do with OM.
So sorry that you have to be here.
Its amazing what love will make you do.
Not true. It's amazing what FEAR will make you do - it amazing how FEAR hijacks your powers of reason, causes you to lose your self respect and to supplicate to an adulterous wife.
Mr Mom, stand up for yourself my friend - your wife will respect you when you start respecting yourself and taking the control away from her. Gather some incontrovertible evidence of her affair and use it at the court hearing to make sure your kids aren't allowed to have anything to do with OM.
So sorry that you have to be here.
BRAVO!
Ya know GH I never looked at it that way but its true. Fear of loosing, fear of change, fear of being alone, all those feelings made me pursue, chase, beg and fold. I know what I'm doing isn't going to change her but I am changing myself and am starting to stand taller. She texted me yesterday and I told her that I will not be meeting her to pick up the kids on her terms and would be working late. She didn't reply for over an hour and just said ok when she did. She called me later a couple of times throughout the day to talk about the kids but I did not fold. I'm going to call her tomorrow and tell her tha tI will be removing her and her car from the ins policy. This should cause some dramma but if she wants to be with OM then she can get him to pay for it. I will not anymore.
I have be working on changing my life for the better, GAL and within the last week I have achieved a few goals that I had made a while back and thought that I would share them:
1. Been working out regularly and eating.(I had lost 20lbs since first bomb)
2. Got in touch with and talked to some old friends. Found this to be very helpful as one friend has been though D just recently.
3. Went to a concert with friends and had a great time. I hadent been to a concert in years. (spending time with friends was the goal, concert was a bonus)
4. Made appointment with dentist to get teeth whitened. Figure this would be a good confidence booster.
5. Taken on all responsibilities around the house. Paying bills, cleaning, dogs, cleaning, yard maintenance, trash and recycling, cleaning, gardening, vehicle maintenance and oh did I add cleaning?
6. Connect with the kids as much as possible and give them support and stability they deserve. In the last few weeks the kids and I have had a ton of fun and at the same time learning.
Those are just the bigger ones for now. I just wanted to journal these and be able to look back at goals I have accomplished and be able to see that good has come from this.
Nice work, Mr. Mom!!! Great stuff.
Puppy
Thanks Puppy, it means a lot.
I could use some advice form anyone willing. I posted this in the infidelity forum the other day. I go into a little more detail about what I think got me here and my sitch and was hoping that this forum with more traffic could help:
FF, I have read your posts and have found them to be very helpful. I glad your here and offering help to others. If you have a moment to read this post I would really love to hear your perspective on my sitch.
My
sitch is unique (like everyone else here) mostly because of my lack of expression of emotion in a healthy way and how easily I would just shut down and not communicate with my W. When we would argue I would stop talking to her and sometimes that would last for days. My inability to express emotions in a healthy way would get worse as time went by because I would just hold it all in. Well of course over time I would be irritable, on edge and even get angry over nothing. This grew into her feeling as though she couldn't tell me about things that she thought would make me angry.(this is what she says anyway) Over time she was hiding a lot of stuff and when I would find out about it I would get angry but the anger was not about the issue but about her feeling like she cant tell me about the issue and that she was hiding things from me because she felt afraid of my reaction. This hurt me deeply. Now yes I admit that I would over react at times but a lot of this is her just not communicating with me and just blaming me for a reaction that I haven't given her. Does that make sense?
My question to you is does it really make sense to go dark on my WAW when this is just the same old ME, closed up and not communicating unless she initiates? I know that right now shes gone and I cant change that and giving her an ultimatum right now doesn't make sense.
Mr Mom... I understand your regret over your failures in your marriage. And its commendable too. AND so healthy and necessary that we see them and see our part in a marriage breakdown.
But ONE thing you ALSO need to consider is this - you were always that way and for a long time she was fine with you BEING that way, it was clearly acceptable enough for her, and part of your personality, a part she didnt like sure but we all have things we dont like in our partner (bad temper, nasty silent treatment, not listening, we ALL have them.) REmember that when someone has an affair, they will do and say anything to justify it and no i am not saying they are LYING, those issues ARE real, but they are also used to camoflauge and explain BAD IMMORAL BEHAVIOUR and you have a RIGHT to point that out at all times in a loving way.
ie "I hear you saying I never listened to you and I was emotionally absent and I agree, and I believe I am working on that very much FOR MY OWN SAKE - but it doesnt excuse you for having an affair and trying to walk out on this marriage with another MAN before trying to work out our marriage."
you can only apologise and grovel so long for mistakes made in the marriage - if they are not prepared to accept your apology and take A RISK ON YOU to see if you really ARE trying to change then ask yourself (and THEM) this! "Why is is you were very ready to take a dangerous and RECKLESS and IMMORAL risk with this MAN, when you are not prepared to take a risk for ME and our MARRIAGE?" it is a GOOD question and its a VALID one.
Other things to point out to the cheating OW: if this other man is so supurb I wonder why he finds it ok to be a homewrecker and not WAIT FOR YOU? ie I beleive if he were a REAL man he'd want to be sure you were making the right choice and surely he'd want to have some INTEGRITY and tell you to not COME BACK til it was OVER. says a lot about what kind of man he is?!?! do you WANT that kind of man? if he did it with you he can do it TO YOU. better hope a sexy 19 yo doesnt come prowling!
Absolutely yes shes going to regret her behavior and for sure not giving it more of a try with you but the point is it can be all too late by then for you, if you move on emotionally (DETACH) and then its too late to regret anything anyway. And heres the kicker Mr Mom: your working on yourself now and is she FULLY PREPARED to take the risk that another woman might just end up with ALL HER HARD WORK (and thats exactly what happens yanno!)
regarding the fact you were always emotionally absent so you wonder if going dark now is good for anything, your probably right, i would guess she 'tests' you. but the point is you should tell her "no testing. you want to know how prepared I am to change and how much I want to be different then you be my wife to see that change, because its not fair to ME to make me express how I feel to you when you dont care". and it isnt, either, is it.
in your case... you might think of expressing these thoughts into a compassionate, logical letter to her; make it warm and loving (demonstrating your change!) but not whining or begging. give her some points to think about.
then leave it in her court. work on you. love your life as much as you can. put your head down and one foot in front of the other. one day you'll look up and the worst is past.
I would like to get others opinion on FF's idea about the letter and if I should do this. I started writing but found it hard to not cross the begging line or write in a way that is not angry. I guess if I were to do this it would have to be straight froward with no apologies and no blaming but loving at the same time. I just cant figure out how to do this or if I even should because I know that it goes against the DB rule.
Mom -
Here is the final letter (besides email) that I wrote to my W and it may give you some ideas...
Nui,
The time has come to make the decision of whether to finish getting a divorce. If you cannot say that you will try to come back and be my loving wife, I will be preparing the financial papers again this weekend and get them to my lawyer next week so he can prepare a divorce agreement offer. I have been more than patient waiting for you to figure out if you will return to our marriage. It seems that many times you have other excuses for not focusing on our marriage situation and it makes me feel like a person hanging in limbo with no idea of his future. I hope you can understand it from my side.
You know where I stand, and that is for marriage and family. I want the loving wife I promised to spend the rest of my life with back. I want our kids to grow up under the guidance and example of two loving parents. My wife and children's happiness have always been my number one priority. It hurts me to know that maybe there was something wrong with me that caused you to go outside the sanctity of our marriage and seek the attention of other men in the nightclubs and to be living in the house of another man for the last 5 months. Maybe it was not me, but you; however I still wonder if there was anything I could have done different to not have had this happen.
I have not seen much from you showing that you want to try and make our marriage work. You say you don't know if you can change - what that means to me is that you don't want to change. Anyone can change if they want to. A good marriage takes work, commitment and flexibility from both a husband and a wife to keep the love alive. I have always been willing to do all I can to fix any faults or improve on any conflicts we may have. I have a vision of a future where both of us develop a stronger love for one another, but I know that will only come with dedicated work from you and from me. We both can't just snap our fingers and be back to where we were the day we got married. I do believe that in time we can get our love for one another to a higher level than what we had when we first got married.
Another thing you have mentioned recently is that you think I am too strong and would be too demanding or take advantage of you or ignore your requests if you came back. I suspect you got this idea from Aey, who is a good and well meaning friend, but maybe not the best person to get relationship advice from considering how many failed relationships she has had. Maybe she has seen something before in another relationship where the left behind spouse was a jerk when they tried to rebuild the marriage. I hope you know me well enough by now to know that I am an easygoing guy that would not take advantage of anyone, much less my own wife. If our marriage were to be restored, your happiness is as important to me as my own and I would want to do all I could so as to not make you feel trapped by restraints in our marriage.
I think if you have concerns about our marriage not working out if you came back, a counselor would be a much better person to discuss these things with. Personal counseling is something I think would be good for you along with marriage counseling for both of us so as to rebuild a marriage back to something that is much better than before.
I can't beg and plead for you to come back. That makes me appear weak and needy. I don't need you to live my life happily; however, I want you as my loving wife because I know we are so good together. There are no magic words I can say that will bring you back to me. You have to want me and our family life. Only you can truly make yourself happy
You seem like a lost person right now as you don't seem to know what you want out of your life or how to go about doing it. I have always hoped that something would snap in your mind and you would finally come to the conclusion that what we had as a couple and family together was so very special. Think seriously about your direction in life. I have thought a lot about my family, my self and what our life together could be. I know we can achieve great success as a family together.
If we get divorced, it is not only going to be tough emotionally, but we are going to have to make some financial sacrifices. Don't let this be the reason you come back. I only want you back if you really want and love me. Also, don't come back just for the kid's sake even though they want you back so badly. If we can't both be deeply in love with one another that is not a good family environment. I would much prefer that they see their parents happy in a loving relationship even if it is not between you and me, but with someone else.
Divorce is a terrible thing that leaves a scar on all involved. You and I both miss the full time with the kid's as do the kid's themselves miss spending full time with each of us. I know that in the event of a divorce that we both will try as hard as possible to minimize the affects of the divorce on our precious children.
Nui, I so dearly loved you and don't want to lose you. But if it is meant to be, I will move on, recover from this painful divorce and find someone else to share my life with. I want to have someone love me deeply for who I am and for me to love them more than my own life. I want to be the rock of a husband for the special lady in my life. Will that person be you?
All My Love,
Kerry
wow, KK that's a very moving letter, especially the last few paragraphs. How could that not make any woman want to change? Thanks for sharing that.
Kerry, While you are asking her to take some responsibility there are elements of pleading which may have empowered her to continue along the wayward path. With an OM providing emotional support getting them to turn around is a tall order. In retrospect would you send the same letter again? (BTW I reached out this way at every major checkpoint in the process to no avail until I had tangible proof that the point-of-no-return was crossed)
The financial and social consequences of divorce clearly determines why the divorce rate in India for 1st time marriages is ~1% and in the US ~50%. If what your W did was not "rewarded" she would have thought 10 times. In the old days adultery was a huge punishable criminal offense. Now, esp. in the US, where serial monogamy and even adultery is socially acceptable, it is often rewarding.
Now, esp. in the US, where serial monogamy and even adultery is socially acceptable, it is often rewarding.
Only for those with no morals or values.
You must remember that right before the D was final my W asked for a second chance. She said that the letters were good and that she looked often at the photo collage album I made of us.
In retrospect would you send the same letter again?
Knowing what I know now, I would have plowed onward much quicker with getting the D finalized instead of having an "on hold" period.
As I mentioned on Kalni's thread, women get nothing in a divorce in India - even when their H is the cheater. That probably has a large part to do why the divorce rate is so low, but the lady I know says that has changed a lot recently as India has become more westernized.
My X could write a best selling book in Thailand - "How to Marry an American and Get Rewarded for Cheating".
My X could write a best selling book in Thailand - "How to Marry an American and Get Rewarded for Cheating".
Kerry, I bet it will sell very well among gold digging clubbers trying to make it big in "America".
Well I did it, gave her a letter last night. I knew she would read it and she did. I talked to her this morning. I don't think it will change anything but It hit her hard, I could tell. The pain was clearly visible. She said she never knew I felt like that and that its not making her decision any easier. She also said she wished I hadn't given it to her but I replied with "I thought you should know how I felt because I never communicated that ever before" and we both finished the sentence together.
Well, at least you're "on the record" with her.
The letter could have been a mistake that I might regret later on as far as our M but after seeing her this morning with almost tears in her eyes I cant deny that it moved her which in turn helped me. I think questioning her immoral behavior, decisions, and actions might of been the best thing I have done. Thanks to everyone here that helped me stand up and question her has made me feel better about myself. I knew the letter wasn't going to change her mind but it changed me to help me be stronger. Thank you everyone
The letter could have been a mistake that I might regret later on as far as our M but after seeing her this morning with almost tears in her eyes I cant deny that it moved her which in turn helped me. I think questioning her immoral behavior, decisions, and actions might of been the best thing I have done. Thanks to everyone here that helped me stand up and question her has made me feel better about myself. I knew the letter wasn't going to change her mind but it changed me to help me be stronger. Thank you everyone
Would you show us the letter?
Mr. Mom,
There is nothing wrong with being on record, I voiced mine, and I am one that does not do well with communicating. She took notice, but after saying it a couple of times, I knew there was nothing more to communicate with her, she knew where I stood. I made sure I did not every bring it up again!
Then the DB'ing took over, like hey, if she wants to go now, it is her own damned fault.
Great job on your goals.
Burt
The letter could have been a mistake that I might regret later on as far as our M but after seeing her this morning with almost tears in her eyes I cant deny that it moved her which in turn helped me. I think questioning her immoral behavior, decisions, and actions might of been the best thing I have done. Thanks to everyone here that helped me stand up and question her has made me feel better about myself. I knew the letter wasn't going to change her mind but it changed me to help me be stronger. Thank you everyone
Would you show us the letter?
I don't have it all here at work but you will get the gist of it. I felt as though I needed to get it to her asap because her and OM are going away for the weekend. A lot of it I got from others here. When I gave it to her I told her that its a shame that she will never get to see the real me. She said she would just not as a couple and I just shrugged as if to say "your loss!"
W,
Going through this all has released such a flood of emotion in me that I am seeing life clearly for the first time in years. You’re right to have questioned our relationship and it is something we should have dealt with long ago. I’d questioned it, too but why is it you were very ready to take a dangerous and reckless and immoral risk with this man, when you are not prepared to take a risk for me and our marriage?
You know where I stand, and that is for marriage and family. I want the loving wife I promised to spend the rest of my life with back. I want our kids to grow up under the guidance and example of two loving parents. It hurts me to know that maybe there was something wrong with me that caused you to go outside the sanctity of our marriage and seek the attention of another man. Maybe it was not me, but you; however I still wonder if there was anything I could have done different to not have had this happen.
I know we weren’t “wrong” about each other; the mistake we made was losing our way. I’ve learned enough in these couple months to see that I finally know how to cherish you as I always should have. The other day you asked "Why are you being so nice?" and I couldn’t answer you at the time but afterwards I read that "pure love is a willingness to give without a thought of receiving anything in return." This is how I felt.
It took a crisis to make me realize the obvious. As their role model, I don’t want D5 and D3 to repeat the same love mistakes I’ve made. Ironically, I especially worry about D5 for reasons that I see now and I hope her shyness and ”leave me alone" attitude doesn’t evolve the way mine did. I want to be a better example for them and to be the generation where “dysfunctional” love dies. I will do everything in my power to make sure our girls don't settle for a guy like the “old” me or a guy like the OM that I believe if he were a true man he'd want to be sure you were making the right choice and surely he'd want to have some integrity and tell you to work on your marriage and not come back. Says a lot about what kind of man he is! Do you want that kind of man for the girls or yourself?
There’s still time for them to see and get the best of us together; not the worst. I can’t take away the questions and doubts that flood you, but I can try. I can't erase the pain nor would it be fair of me to beg you to “trust me”. I can't beg and plead for you to come back. That makes me appear weak and needy. I don't need you to live my life happily; however, I want you as my loving wife because I know we are so good together. There are no magic words I can say that will bring you back to me. You have to want me and our family life. Only you can truly make yourself happy.
Mr. Mom,
There is nothing wrong with being on record, I voiced mine, and I am one that does not do well with communicating. She took notice, but after saying it a couple of times, I knew there was nothing more to communicate with her, she knew where I stood. I made sure I did not every bring it up again!
Then the DB'ing took over, like hey, if she wants to go now, it is her own damned fault.
Great job on your goals.
Burt
Thanks Burt,
I feel the same, balls in her court now and I have made myself clear in a loving, straight forward way and if she continues to carry on the path that she is on then it is her loss!
Thanks for sharing the letter. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with the stuff that you are.
Thanks for sharing the letter. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with the stuff that you are.
Thanks for the support Ant
I know that if I had more time I could have put my heart into it and done better explaining my own feelings in better words but I knew that it was the last time I would see her before the trip her and OM are going on. I felt like I needed to get it to her before that for some reason.
The letter could have been a mistake that I might regret later on as far as our M but after seeing her this morning with almost tears in her eyes I cant deny that it moved her which in turn helped me. I think questioning her immoral behavior, decisions, and actions might of been the best thing I have done. Thanks to everyone here that helped me stand up and question her has made me feel better about myself. I knew the letter wasn't going to change her mind but it changed me to help me be stronger. Thank you everyone
Would you show us the letter?
I don't have it all here at work but you will get the gist of it. I felt as though I needed to get it to her asap because her and OM are going away for the weekend. A lot of it I got from others here. When I gave it to her I told her that its a shame that she will never get to see the real me. She said she would just not as a couple and I just shrugged as if to say "your loss!"
W,
Going through this all has released such a flood of emotion in me that I am seeing life clearly for the first time in years. You’re right to have questioned our relationship and it is something we should have dealt with long ago. I’d questioned it, too but why is it you were very ready to take a dangerous and reckless and immoral risk with this man, when you are not prepared to take a risk for me and our marriage?
You know where I stand, and that is for marriage and family. I want the loving wife I promised to spend the rest of my life with back. I want our kids to grow up under the guidance and example of two loving parents. It hurts me to know that maybe there was something wrong with me that caused you to go outside the sanctity of our marriage and seek the attention of another man. Maybe it was not me, but you; however I still wonder if there was anything I could have done different to not have had this happen.
I know we weren’t “wrong” about each other; the mistake we made was losing our way. I’ve learned enough in these couple months to see that I finally know how to cherish you as I always should have. The other day you asked "Why are you being so nice?" and I couldn’t answer you at the time but afterwards I read that "pure love is a willingness to give without a thought of receiving anything in return." This is how I felt.
It took a crisis to make me realize the obvious. As their role model, I don’t want D5 and D3 to repeat the same love mistakes I’ve made. Ironically, I especially worry about D5 for reasons that I see now and I hope her shyness and ”leave me alone" attitude doesn’t evolve the way mine did. I want to be a better example for them and to be the generation where “dysfunctional” love dies. I will do everything in my power to make sure our girls don't settle for a guy like the “old” me or a guy like the OM that I believe if he were a true man he'd want to be sure you were making the right choice and surely he'd want to have some integrity and tell you to work on your marriage and not come back. Says a lot about what kind of man he is! Do you want that kind of man for the girls or yourself?
There’s still time for them to see and get the best of us together; not the worst. I can’t take away the questions and doubts that flood you, but I can try. I can't erase the pain nor would it be fair of me to beg you to “trust me”. I can't beg and plead for you to come back. That makes me appear weak and needy. I don't need you to live my life happily; however, I want you as my loving wife because I know we are so good together. There are no magic words I can say that will bring you back to me. You have to want me and our family life. Only you can truly make yourself happy.
Mr. M,
Some of those words sound awfully familiar... ;->
And, I like how you worked those parts in...
-AlexEN
I'm confused though, which letter did you give her, the one immediately above or about 10-12 posts back (and typed in blue)?
I think it was a good letter and I feel honored that you used parts of mine. I actually wrote 22 letters in all to my W - maybe a bit too many and most during a 2 month span following the bomb when I was emotionally heart broken, but she did thank me for them. I also recently gave her all the letters and cards that I wrote her leading up to and during our marriage - I am sure it will be painful for her to read those again as the are very sentimental. She wrote me a few heartfelt letters and cards and one that I could tell was after she had met with a counselor.
It is indeed actually better for your own peace of mind than for your W's. Writing can have a calming effect and allow you to get in words that which is difficult to speak without breaking down emotionally.
Thanks to everyone here that helped me stand up and question her has made me feel better about myself. I knew the letter wasn't going to change her mind but it changed me to help me be stronger.
No worries Mr Mom.
Listen, you have to do this to preserve your dignity and your self respect. And ... if there is any hope for your marriage it will be because you were strong like this and respected yourself.
My heart goes out to you - I know what it's like when your W goes off with OM for a weekend and it is painful beyond measure.
I'm confused though, which letter did you give her, the one immediately above or about 10-12 posts back (and typed in blue)?
Alex, I gave her a letter that had a blend of great phrases that I found here on the boards along with a lot of my own words. All of what I gave her is how I felt, which is the main thing, even though a lot of the words were from amazing people including yourself. I have always struggled to put my feelings into words. This is something that I need to work that will take time. I'm working on it though. I have been journaling and writing down every time I want to call her. Being here has helped the most along with talking to friends. I truly have changed because I would have never opened up to
anyone before this happened. Everyone that knows me sees me changing (especially the weight loss) for the better. I have everyone here to thank for the support and courage to do it.
She texted me last night and said she was changing her plans and going to take the girls with her mother today to a museum and her mother would have them over night till tomorrow and that she would be dropping the kids off to me in the morning. She had told me earlier that I would be getting the kids Friday night so I was a little upset but played it cool. I cant believe that I will have to deal with this on a weekly basis. Her constant indecisiveness, head games and using the kids to try and get me mad so she feels better about her decision. I'm not playing into it.
I know its going to be tough to talk to MIL tomorrow when she drops the kids off. The last time I talked to her everything I said got back to W. I didn't even talk to her at D3's birth day party last week. I think I said something to her but that was it. No return dialog. Other then that I just waved goodbye when she left. She smiled and waved back. Her daughter has me pegged as the bad guy so she doesn't feel bad about what shes doing. What she told me as "moving on."
Anybody have any advice on MIL interaction tomorrow? Should I give her a letter also? Telling her how I feel. Should I show her the letter that I gave the W? I read it to my mother and she cried. I don't think W would show it to her mother because it would make her feel worse.
M - The bottom line is you are still in CONVINCING MODE. This is about CONTROL. You NEED to realize that you CAN'T CONVINCE her to come back. You have to REALIZE that you have NO CONTROL OVER THE S WHAT SO EVER... Especially with words or letters. She has to see what she needs to see over a certain amount of time she determines. Are you STRONG enough for that? She also NEEDS to do this by herself and NOT w OM involved. Until that all bets r off.
About MIL. Same rules apply. NO R talk. Let your actions over time speak for themselves. Plus u never go between a mother and daughter. Just validate but no R talk. Change the convo to something positive.
PMA
What PMA Baby said. ^
This was THE single hardest thing for me to understand, and I STILL grapple with it: I . . . DON'T . . . GET . . . TO . . . CONTROL . . . HER.
I also, like SmileysPerson, like to fancy myself a bit of a wordsmith, and I always felt like if I could just SAY THE RIGHT THING, use the RIGHT WORDS, in JUST THE RIGHT COMBINATION, that -- somehow -- I could convince my wife to change.
Wrong. Not only CAN'T I do that, but it's not even my RIGHT to do that.
That took a long, long time to sink in.
Puppy
DO NOT to communicate with in-laws about marriage issues. If in-laws side with you and put pressure on your W that will backfire as your W will perceive you to be driving a wedge between her and her parents/siblings. Or the in-laws will just convince your W even more that what she is doing is right.
As Puppy and PMA Baby said - there are no magic words or formula that will bring your W back.
The best thing to do is focus on the kids.
M - The bottom line is you are still in CONVINCING MODE. This is about CONTROL. You NEED to realize that you CAN'T CONVINCE her to come back. You have to REALIZE that you have NO CONTROL OVER THE S WHAT SO EVER... Especially with words or letters. She has to see what she needs to see over a certain amount of time she determines. Are you STRONG enough for that? She also NEEDS to do this by herself and NOT w OM involved. Until that all bets r off.
About MIL. Same rules apply. NO R talk. Let your actions over time speak for themselves. Plus u never go between a mother and daughter. Just validate but no R talk. Change the convo to something positive.
PMA
Your right, I guess I got into that mode from the reaction after her reading the letter. I think it gave me hope even though it didn't change anything. Funny thing was it made me feel good to see her in pain from it. Kinda sick, I know but I'm sure a lot a people here can relate to that feeling after what we have been though. It felt like I knocked a brick out of the wall between us and I could get my hand through. Obviously that wasn't the case.
Oh, I can DEFINITELY relate to that feeling!!!
And you DID probably knock a brick out of that wall. But what happens is, as long as they're still in contact with OM, they just put up a new brick in there, very quickly.
Puppy
What PMA Baby said. ^
This was THE single hardest thing for me to understand, and I STILL grapple with it: I . . . DON'T . . . GET . . . TO . . . CONTROL . . . HER.
I also, like SmileysPerson, like to fancy myself a bit of a wordsmith, and I always felt like if I could just SAY THE RIGHT THING, use the RIGHT WORDS, in JUST THE RIGHT COMBINATION, that -- somehow -- I could convince my wife to change.
Wrong. Not only CAN'T I do that, but it's not even my RIGHT to do that.
That took a long, long time to sink in.
Puppy
Well said; me too. If I hadn't had the benefit of this board I wouldn't have been able to get on the learning curve on this as fast as I did.
She has to see what she needs to see over a certain amount of time she determines. Are you STRONG enough for that? She also NEEDS to do this by herself and NOT w OM involved. Until that all bets r off.
PMA
I don't know if I'm strong enough honestly. I'm only a couple months into it and a couple of months away from the court date. Everyone says I'm doing really good so far considering the sitch. I'm just taking this one day at a time for now.
I'm confused though, which letter did you give her, the one immediately above or about 10-12 posts back (and typed in blue)?
Alex, I gave her a letter that had a blend of great phrases that I found here on the boards along with a lot of my own words. All of what I gave her is how I felt, which is the main thing, even though a lot of the words were from amazing people including yourself. I have always struggled to put my feelings into words. This is something that I need to work that will take time. I'm working on it though. I have been journaling and writing down every time I want to call her. Being here has helped the most along with talking to friends. I truly have changed because I would have never opened up to
anyone before this happened. Everyone that knows me sees me changing (especially the weight loss) for the better. I have everyone here to thank for the support and courage to do it.
Hey, I can't say I didn't "borrow" thoughts from others when I wrote what I did (it was my timing that sucked)... I was actually honored to see some of my own words and hope they serve you better than they served me!