Time to move on, into another thread and into another life:
Last thread Quick summary (interesting how they always change):
- Continuing EA (since BD) exposed and confronted 1/15
- W respectful of not going PA during M but playing down EA
- OM not ready, NC to W since she told him that I know
- W completely out of love - we are not meant to be
- W doing a lot of soul searching herself, but validating her believes
- I was emotionally very immature in our M, settled and loved selfishly
- D now on the table - W determined to figure things out asap
- W wants me to move out, I told her I won't, she might leave
- W telling me to focus on myself only
- Family still not involved but W determined to tell them soon
- W basically started to "plan" D
Regarding myself I'm facing:
Hard time detaching. Need to continue better to GAL big time with more activities. .
Need to completely let go. Even W asking me to focus on myself.
Need to build financial stability asap. Depression therapy.
Regarding R/M I'm facing:
How can I postpone rash D decisions from W?
Main problem: W's feelings are gone.
W gaining more power again and our "R" changed after a confrontation night 2 days ago.
She seems to still care for my well being, but her picture of me didn't change. She seems to have done a lot of soul searching too. But it's all validating her believes, which she's very strong about. She told me I was emotionally very immature in our R and showed me an article. It was a good one and I agreed. She knows I'm working hard on myself and she assures me she is trying the same. She seems aware of my actions but believes I do it all for her. And she's half right.
She believes I can't detach with her around that's why she now wants to accelerate the S and D process and also make our S official asap. Partly true I admit.
Since confrontation we are much more friendly with each other tho, but in a way of acceptance and mutual respect. She desperately wants a FRIENDLY divorce. And it looks like I'll give it to her.
But that's where boundaries really come into play and I also have to act in my own interest. I don't know where I should be her "friend" and where not to.
This will probably be the major topic of this thread. I need some advice on that, or will that advice just be: Sinply focus on yourself?
Guess it's not that simple once the D is rolling.
It feels like I'm facing a different enemy now. She's very very aware of everything. She doesn't seem too confused at all, but who knows.
Which leads to ONE goal: I need to FULLY let go. I HAVE TO. She's even telling me...
Stuff is still circling tho...what if, how, when. It's not easy. But when even SHE is telling me what I have to do...well that's a clear sign is it???
Thanks for everyone being involved in my sitch so far. I'm very thankful and there's a lot I can give back to the community already. Yours, Complex!
Happy Superbowl day! Valentines Day is coming up. Probably the saddest common day of everyone here.
Just watched the movie "Dollar a day" on Netflix with W. We both cried.
GAL time now!
Things are starting to become VERY real. W told me today there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop this divorce. She is going to tell her dad and mom next week when I'm gone for work.
She was upset that I said I'm not going to move out and that I want to stay here. She is trying to argue with me that she's the bread giver etc and is afraid I want to screw her over with an attorney. I assured her I am not up for any arguments or a fight and want this to do the right way. That I don't have hard feelings and hope she doesn't have any either.
She is kind of blaming me for not living up to what I promised her. She knows she did things the wrong way too, but she just doesn't love me anymore. I agreed with most of what she said. She has a very good idea of what went wrong and all that, I don't see her being confused. And I agree with almost all her believes...I even agree the marriage doesn't make sense the way it is and that we need to grow as people first before we can have a true fulfilling relationship.
It's hard to describe, she's just SO aware of everything, the whole circumstances. She even tells me things like "focus on yourself...become the person where I look at you in a few years like 'damn why did I leave this guy'".
She's completely turning DBing around!!!?!? I wonder if she knows I'm here or so. It's weird.
Did anyone experience sth like this? Could she be knowing about this site?
It feels like I'm the idiot now. I actually really understand her and I feel like she's right with sooo many things. But this can't be it...I'm not the one who fell out of love and did all this...I'm confused
W even told me "not to focus on the OM" because he's not the reason why she wants D. Our marriage was going to end with it without him
I need to focus on myself, I have great potential and should take this as an opportunity for growth.
She might be right, I mean she IS, but it's underplaying the role of OM and her views on how fast she wants to end M is just....I don't know. She tells me we HAVE to physically separate. She sees I'm still suffering and she's right, she wants to make the cut.
She says she might stay alone forever. Bc she probably can't find someone she loves the same way she'll get loved.
I'm so confused how she's turning the whole DBing around telling me the things DB is teaching. What's that all about???
And I'm nor over her, my life is still upside down and I'm not 100% functional. But I know it's not heatlhy to stay together right now.
I don't know what to think of what she's doing now
I'd appreciate if someone would give it a thought!
Thanks!!!
Hi Complex, I think it's common to 'downplay' the OP - lots of WAS's do that. And it is partly true, in that issues in the R made you guys vulnerable to an A. Not excusing her behaviour/choice in this regard.
Of course, when the excitement of the A has worn off, things may change - who knows. I think the important thing is - what do you want to do now? Do you want to S? If you do, start making your plans and moving forwards to where you want to be..
W even told me "not to focus on the OM" because he's not the reason why she wants D. Our marriage was going to end with it without him
This is typical SCRIPT, and it's only partially true. Yes, you two probably had issues that led to her to lower her boundaries and look elsewhere, but as noted above:
a) it doesn't excuse it -- she should have tried to work with you, or had the integrity to end the marriage before cheating; and
b) affairs are HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. So while the OM may not have INITIALLY been the "reason" why she didn't want to work on the marriage with you, I can assure you that -- at least chemically/physiologically -- he became the main OBSTACLE to it.
Starsky
Toots: I don't want S. But do I have a choice? The living situation is rough. She seems very stressed and pressured with me around. My detaching seems to fail/she smells that I have hopes. So now she doesn't wanna waste more time and get it over with.
The A as such doesn't really exist. Factual, she loves him but both can't do anything bc of M and it seems like they went NC for a while. She plays it down that it might actually never happen bc he isn't as into her as she into him. But I assume she wants him and give it a try with him and pushing D. She denies it, either concious or subconscious she has the "idea" of a R with him. But I don't know her thoughts obv.
But it all boils down to marrying me was the main mistake she made. Everything else is what followed. That hurts like hell.
Starsky:
You're right. Her thought tho is that she DID tell me of OM at BD. I didn't take it serious enough, lived in denial for a long time. But I tried to reassure OM isn't a factor and she then lied. She told me she tried very hard to overcome her feelings for him and wanted to love me but she just couldn't. I give her credit for her initial honesty. But it came too late, she checked out already and then denied it and got sucked in by her feelings, S me and totally let her feelings fly for him bc she thought its legitimate now. Then I found out, she realized it's morally not correct so now she wants D asap.
I just still don't know how to deal with a person that now is using my DB techniques against me, telling me the exact same things. She's empowering herself and validating everything for herself, even trying to convince me of it being ok. The initial M vow whatsoever is the big mistake, rest just followed it's destiny. And I almost believe it. There's truth in it...but it doesn't excuse S & D in the way that it happened...am I right? Sry I need to hear this again bc I am confused.
And now what am I doing??? It feels like if I don't play along, she'll play hard on me. It's just so ridiculous...How can I do this "right", the loving way without giving myself up...!?!?!
I will try to give you a more thorough answer later, as I'm out the door for my long commute home, but my short answer is "Never seek to 'play nice' with a person with whom you have a pending legal action." Appeasement is RARELY a wise legal strategy, just as neither is "goin' lookin' for trouble."
Thank you Starsky.
I need to talk to my DB coach about the new developments, but I only have 1 session left..
Thanks to anyone who has some decent advice about when D is becoming real.
Parallel to my efforts of detaching it feels like I 'recommitted' to my M. Instead of just letting it completely go, I have this feeling of complete understanding what went wrong, agree on our M wasn't fulfilling for neither one of us. But I have a vision of how a new R could work, it feels unreal tho. And obviously it's over, and I know it. As long as she is still working with OM the obstacle to gain feelings back is impossible.
Weird feeling that I feel recommitted in the worst of all times.
I've met friends who got DB instinctively. They told me the same things I read in the book. I wouldn't read too much into it.
Just read an article about the difference between love and infatuation.
What if the love between me and my W was just infatuation?
I'm sure that's what she is thinking, which makes it very real. And there's a lot of truth in it. She is right
But then I made her the promise and married her. Didn't take enough care of her, and the love died fast and through all the pain I realized what went wrong, what I did wrong. Then when she was gone already I recommitted to my M, started to love my W the way I should. But it came too late and maybe her love really was just infatuated.
True or not, as long as she thinks that I have zero chance to save my marriage.
She basically first has to feel like I'm a good friend and then fall in love with me again.
Painful insight...I don't know what to think, it's a serious though, or if this should change my plan. Phew..
Just read an article about the difference between love and infatuation.
What if the love between me and my W was just infatuation?
I'm sure that's what she is thinking, which makes it very real. And there's a lot of truth in it. She is right
But then I made her the promise and married her. Didn't take enough care of her, and the love died fast and through all the pain I realized what went wrong, what I did wrong. Then when she was gone already I recommitted to my M, started to love my W the way I should. But it came too late and maybe her love really was just infatuated.
True or not, as long as she thinks that I have zero chance to save my marriage.
She basically first has to feel like I'm a good friend and then fall in love with me again.
Painful insight...I don't know what to think, it's a serious though, or if this should change my plan. Phew..
Learn how people fall "in love". But remember you are not the problem here, she is. Perhaps you where always more infatuated with her than she was you. Some of this info will help you in current or future relationships.
It's a legitimate question, and I'll take only a slightly different angle on it, but I think it's an important thought to consider at this early stage in your relationship:
It's perfectly natural -- even typical -- for the endorphine-fueled, "in looove" infatuation to wane after 2-3 years. I think what you have to ask yourself is, "Is this a woman of quality and with sufficient emotional maturity that when infatuation wears off, she is capable of joining me on a marital walk where we take it to the next level (deepening emotional bond, increased shared memories and experiences, children, grandchildren, etc., etc.) and face life's challenges with me . . . or is she going to cut and run and seek the next 'high' in the rush of another affair? of drugs or alcohol? of some other short-term 'fix' of excitement?"
THAT to me is one of the underlying things about affairs you have to deal with: the whole "when the going got tough, what did she/he do?" thing.
Not easy questions to ask yourself, much less to answer I'm afraid.
Starsky
Yes. Not easy. Thanks for your point of view. The thing why I haven't given up yet is that W has a lot of depth in her thinking.
Everyone says that she IS different, mature, a very good soul. She has all the deep qualities.
But she just simply thinks we don't match. I didn't understand her well enough. I didn't let her be herself. But on a certain level the true HER might actually not fully meet my needs of a relationship. She knows that and it's supporting her thoughts. Hard to describe.
After all she definitely is worth fighting for. There is no doubt. If we can really make each other happy...that I just don't know. It'll be work on both sides, and right now I'm the only one doing any work. And it's not going to be easy, but I wanna know I've done everything I can, I want to love her, no matter of the outcome. And I know I'll be fine one day.
Start by realizing that one can never "MAKE" another person happy. That's enmeshed, co-dependent thinking.
When you learn to view each other as the FROSTING on your own cake of life, full of your own passions, beliefs and interests . . . you will both be on a healthier emotional path. It took me a LONG time to learn this, and in some ways I'm STILL learning it, 8 years post-bomb and 7 years post-reconciliation.
Starsky
Good advice Starsky ^^^^.
I feel like I have begun to realize that I can only make myself happy a while ago and you are right that there is still a lot of learning to do.
I just wish my W was learning this also, Or worse yet maybe she is learning it and I am not going to be a part of her frosting. That would stink but it certainly is a great possibility.
Complex, stay strong!! It seems as if you are asking yourself some tough questions and I believe that is good. I did the same thing and it has helped me a great deal. I hope this insight you are working with will help you down the road.
I know Starsky, this is very true. It's something hard to learn. People always tend to depend their happiness on other people or circumstances.
The whole setup for me right now is just so frustrating but I think I got a good idea of what happened and what has to happen. I'm just still so in love with W.
I can't make a single mistake anymore feels like. And it's just becoming very technical what I have to do to postpone D in my own interest without looking needy. I'll get some attorney counseling soon. A friend of mine knows a woman, she's a mediator, he said she's an amazing person doing her job because she's coming from a heartwarming story of her own parents getting D. So maybe she can give me a good and legal view on things
I know Starsky, this is very true. It's something hard to learn. People always tend to depend their happiness on other people or circumstances.
The whole setup for me right now is just so frustrating but I think I got a good idea of what happened and what has to happen. I'm just still so in love with W.
I can't make a single mistake anymore feels like. And it's just becoming very technical what I have to do to postpone D in my own interest without looking needy. I'll get some attorney counseling soon. A friend of mine knows a woman, she's a mediator, he said she's an amazing person doing her job because she's coming from a heartwarming story of her own parents getting D. So maybe she can give me a good and legal view on things
Right, you should not depend upon the other to make your happiness, but others CAN affect your level of happiness and satisfaction in the world. We do get to choose who our friends are.
I know Starsky, this is very true. It's something hard to learn. People always tend to depend their happiness on other people or circumstances.
The whole setup for me right now is just so frustrating but I think I got a good idea of what happened and what has to happen. I'm just still so in love with W.
Take this time apart to really do some introspection, and some reading on co-dependency, emotional enmeshment, and learn to grow comfortable in your own skin being alone.
Often us "Mr. Nice Guy"/pleaser/fixer/co-dependent types (and I am definitely one!) begin to conflate and confuse "love" with unhealthy "co-dependency." It's a deep topic that would take more time here than I have to give it right now, but I would urge you to really do some study and introspection on it.
LOVE is unconditional; MARRIAGE (or any other human interaction or relationship) . . . is not. At least it shouldn't be.
Starsky
I definitely will do that. It just sounds like me..
Thing is we still live under one roof. But she seems annoyed by it. Asking if I don't wanna rent a room somewhere. I told her I'm not leaving this place.
We can't even afford that but she is pushing physical separation and she might be right. I'm not sure what to do or say really..
She also is going to tell her parents this week...if she has the balls. I guess that's inevitable, maybe even a good thing compared to keep hiding to create a perfect exit plan by herself...!?
Stay in your own home. If it makes her uncomfortable, SHE can leave. There are things you can do to minimize your contact with her, both by not being home when she is and also while you're both in the house.
Hang on in there complex.
Im having to move out for financial reasons. If I didn't have to no way would I. I cant wait to now. Its killing being here.
Ya. I have to get out of her way. But I just enjoy being around her, even after she did this to me. It's ridiculous. I feel like I need to be around her at least a little but so she can see my changes. But it does NOT work^^. I should get out of her way more. Maybe I seem needy to her.
SRD how come you gotta move out for financial reasons? Wouldn't it be smarter to stay or what's the deal? It must hurt, but it'll help detaching. But then its the double sided sword, you detach better but you might grow apart even more...
I cant afford to stay in our house on my own. If I don't leave my wife will so stuffed either way.
It hurts a lot right now and I just need to be away from her.
I'm in NC with W right now and I don't know if I should even start any conversations at this point. Neither do I know if she told her family.
I just read Starkys advice in SRDs thread what to say to W. But I've said too much already. Every time we got into a conversation it was more of a blame game. I told her so many times that how she handled the situation is not acceptable, but all she is saying is "I'm so sorry...but we have to forgive ourselves at some point". And I feel like she still doesn't get how disrespectful it was to go the path of an EA, then calling it quits within the M and legitimizing her EA and let it grow.
I guess I'm still too focused on that.
Now, if I make her open up some, start being friends with her again I feel like catering her too much and it may cause a faster D process, through mediation or what ever we are going to do to make this rather friendly.
If I don't it has the potential to being nasty. I don't wantbthat either but I need to protect myself and be firm and also stretch the D to a certain extend bc I obviously want to still save my M.....not sure what position to take!?
Ya. I have to get out of her way. But I just enjoy being around her, even after she did this to me. It's ridiculous. I feel like I need to be around her at least a little but so she can see my changes.
A very, VERY common mistake that betrayed men make around here.
She's a woman . . . TRUST me, she will hear of your changes thru that grapevine that they all have.
Starsky
Just adding to what Starsky said above ^^^ and if your W's are anything like my W they will become very upset when they learn or see for themselves the Changes you try to make.
My W was so incensed that I was trying to better myself she ranted around the house for 3 hrs berating me for doing things that made me look better than anybody.
I calmly answered "I am doing this for myself and nobody else but thanks for noticing."
Then she really got mad.
Best thing about it is these changes have stuck and 20 months later I feel great about myself.
You will get there also.
Just adding to what Starsky said above ^^^ and if your W's are anything like my W they will become very upset when they learn or see for themselves the Changes you try to make.
My W was so incensed that I was trying to better myself she ranted around the house for 3 hrs berating me for doing things that made me look better than anybody.
I calmly answered "I am doing this for myself and nobody else but thanks for noticing."
Then she really got mad.
Best thing about it is these changes have stuck and 20 months later I feel great about myself.
You will get there also.
Yep.
I see where this is going
It's going to take time, and of lot of it. And I'm just antsy. But I see some light again, I feel way better detached. I'm glad I'm out of town. In Vegas actually...that's a very distracting place, although I'm here for work.
So now I basically need to find the right balance between "making W mad" and stretching D process and being a man only a fool would leave, which means I have to be mature about the S and to a certain extend agree on things.
Depending on how rushy she decides things how am I going to find this balance?
This confuses me greatly. Or should I just go from decision to decision and figure out what's best?
Ya. I have to get out of her way. But I just enjoy being around her, even after she did this to me. It's ridiculous. I feel like I need to be around her at least a little but so she can see my changes.
A very, VERY common mistake that betrayed men make around here.
She's a woman . . . TRUST me, she will hear of your changes thru that grapevine that they all have.
Starsky
I'm starting to think after they did you like this, that you are single for a while. Best way and don't worry about what they are doing. You can hang onto her but she's not yours right now, and it just makes you look needy.
Aaand back home and miserable^^...
It just sukks being here. Haven't seen her yet. She was here and left this morning. At least I got GAL plans for today.
No idea if she told her family like she said she would.
Did I get ahead of myself with my last post and an I thinking too much in advance? I'm still curious of finding the right balance of "love" and "acting in my own interest and standing tall"...
Aaand back home and miserable^^...
It just sukks being here. Haven't seen her yet. She was here and left this morning. At least I got GAL plans for today.
No idea if she told her family like she said she would.
Did I get ahead of myself with my last post and an I thinking too much in advance? I'm still curious of finding the right balance of "love" and "acting in my own interest and standing tall"...
It's hard, I think it's ok to think in advance to an extent and plan for the future, but it's easy to get sucked into obsessing and "what if"-ing and then that doesn't do us any good.
I'm still curious of finding the right balance of "love" and "acting in my own interest and standing tall"... << What do you mean?
So now I basically need to find the right balance between "making W mad" and stretching D process and being a man only a fool would leave, which means I have to be mature about the S and to a certain extend agree on things.
Not an expert here but I've been going back and reading some old threads lately and from what I can see what seems to work best in many sitches (obviously not all are the same) is a stance something like: "While I don't agree with your decision, I do respect your choice BUT if you want to S you need to leave the house/I am not going to file for D that's down to you as it's your decision/etc." Basically, not instigating any part of the S or D process, because it's HER decision so she needs to take action on it. You don't agree with the decision, but you know you can't control her or stop her, so you won't stand in her way, but you certainly won't aid her.
Quick question in between:
My mom is humongously worried, sad, angry and also very disappointed by WAW. Understandable. I always try to calm her and make her understand.
Until today I didn't know she wrote W an email 10 days ago, from what she told me it was on the nice as worried side. W never responded and is in absolute NC with my family. I guess that's normal!?
Now my mom wants to send W's aunt an email (very close family of W, the center of family, incredibly friendly ppl). I told her a few times its not a good idea and asked her not to do it which she respected. Now she asked over and over again, so I told her she can do whatever she likes, but I don't think its a good idea. My mom is a very considerate person and won't get personal or blame or so. Maybe deep down I'm hoping if she does it'll cause some family involvement...but I don't know if that's beneficial.
Any thoughts on that? Should I let her do what she wants or tell her not to do it and respect my and W's privacy????
Both. Tell her your preference (that she not get more involved), but understand and respect that she's a grown woman who will do what she will do.
Both. Tell her your preference (that she not get more involved), but understand and respect that she's a grown woman who will do what she will do.
That would basically be the "ok do whatever you think is right" and she will^^
Question is if it will benefit, harm or won't matter at all in the end.
It will fit sure cause that they know sth is wrong (if they don't know already) and start being cautious with invitations, talk to W, mayyybe approach me. I'm sure they will be shocked if D is on the table but most likely they will respect our privacy.
There's a mutual family friend of ours that I am very close with on a deeper level. He's a good, trustworthy person and I was thinking of opening up to him and tell him what's going on. He will for sure stay my friend for a long time no matter what happens. But he's also good friend of W's dad, although I trust him..at some point there might be information leaking, which might sonehow be a good thing too if I do it right and with the utmost of respect towards everyone...or not...I have no idea.
Who thinks it is ok to talk to him?
Susana:
By balance between acting loving and "standing tall" (Sry my English makes stuff confusing sometimes) I mean that of course I want W to be happy. So if I truly love her I have to let her go, right? Because I don't want to stand in the way of her happiness (if it really will make her happy-er is another question). On the other hand I want to a) protect my own heart from further harm, create boundaries of what I can accept for myself (eg how W treats me or lies to me) and b) stretch the D process to the fullest, which will most likely make W mad, so I may have a slight chance of W noticing my changes and starting to want to at least give it another shot of working on M or basically have the possibility of some feelings returning. And in my case also to put stress on R with OM (which right now I don't know what's going on, most likely they are in NC or low contact bc both decided they can't have a real R while W is still married).
Any other reasons I could think of?
And does that make sense or am I overthinking this?
In the few times I have involved any friend or famil Complex, it has blown up in my face. Having read your sitch, I understand they differ, but I certainly respect the feeling of "If I just did this, maybe....just maybe it would be the thing that opens it all up". So far, nothing I have ever thought was going to do that worked.
W asked me to take her car to oil change tomorrow. She already made an apt.
Should I help her with that or just tell her she needs to take care by herself?
She just left telling me "going to work for a meeting", in shorts with a nice shirt and her hair pretty...doesnt make me feel very comfy, and concerns of OM are rising again. Either they are meeting to talk or eat or she really is going to work for a casual meeting but I know who is at work too who she wants to look good for. It's sickening to live with her not knowing sht. I felt well detached last few days, but every move of her like this is a throwback.
About involving family: I'm not planning on discussing things with them. But after so many months of lies I thing it's enough and they should at least know we are separated! And at some point I want them to know that I love them, and that I love W but that I won't be in the way of W's happiness. In general I just think it's time to put a stop on the lies! I'm sure W is afraid to justify herself in front of her F but it's about time she does.
Or will it just make her commit to D faster?
Today my IC asked me if W would actually be willing to join IC. Not as MC, simply to help with my IC...and also to get an idea of if she is depressed too.
My IC is not an expert on MC and I am not convinced yet that she will do the right thing. I'm sure I could convince W to go to a session.
Does anyone have experience with this?
Another question going around in my head is a "last shot MC" at some point. Anyone ever done that?
Both things would not be good right now I think. It's way too cold right now but maybe I can warm W up a bit by continuing to properly DB...and I don't have concrete plans on involving W. It'll take time and really needs to make sense one day or it won't do any good.
Personally, I wouldn't help her.
Tell her if she wants to end the marriage, it's high time she put on her BGPs.
It's not going to change the outcome of my sitch I guess. But hm ya why would I?
Too bad I agreed too fast^^ her car is 3500 miles over service and they are going to sell her expensive crap service if I don't do it...
Oh well...
I'm seriously annoyed today by W and how NC. I feel like I made some serious process detaching tho. It just feels like limbo again..waiting for the death sentence of our M...thats all it is right now
You already agreed to help her?
It's not going to change the outcome of my sitch I guess. But hm ya why would I?
Too bad I agreed too fast^^ her car is 3500 miles over service and they are going to sell her expensive crap service if I don't do it...
Oh well...
I'm seriously annoyed today by W and how NC. I feel like I made some serious process detaching tho. It just feels like limbo again..waiting for the death sentence of our M...thats all it is right now
What about her boyfriend?
I did. Not sure if it would look weak to change my position on it. What's BGPs?
Oh big girl panties...lol.
Well if I tell her she'll probably argue that I also should put my big boy panties on and start standing on my own feet.
Which I'm in the process of right now...but it doesn't go overnight. Plus I'm not the one ditching out of my marriage cowardly cheating emotionally...
Wow I got much better controlling my emotions while discussing things with W.
I told her I will take care of her car this time bc it's urgent, but next time she has to put her big girl pants on because I can't do stuff like this for her anymore if she wants to leave.
She reacted exactly like I predicted. She has hers on and I should put mine on blabla. Inside myself I was almost laughing how predictable it was what she said.
I was detached and very calm, although wife interpreted me being rude and almost blowing up again, but I felt far from blowing up, in good DB mode.
She also said we should split bills 50/50. I told her she should go see a mediator or an attorney then. She said she will. I guess I better go see one too asap to check my rights.
Then I said sth which I'm curious about. "I hope you don't think I'm stupid about what's going on" (I was referring to D connection to OM and that she's always getting super pretty before work etc. but I didn't say that). And she then tried to find out what my current knowledge is by asking what I think. I refused to answer, distracted from the original question. She got anxious and tried to push for an answer and I just said "does it matter what I think or know?" and refused to answer. After a few attempts she let it go. I felt like I defended myself well and with respect.
I definitely made her curious about what I know. Gets her thinking a bit.
But the mood between us is very cold. It really hurts to see how crazily distant we've become in such a short amount of time.
Any thoughts on if I did the right DB thing?
Wow I got much better controlling my emotions while discussing things with W.
I told her I will take care of her car this time bc it's urgent, but next time she has to put her big girl pants on because I can't do stuff like this for her anymore if she wants to leave.
She reacted exactly like I predicted. She has hers on and I should put mine on blabla. Inside myself I was almost laughing how predictable it was what she said.
I was detached and very calm, although wife interpreted me being rude and almost blowing up again, but I felt far from blowing up, in good DB mode.
She also said we should split bills 50/50. I told her she should go see a mediator or an attorney then. She said she will. I guess I better go see one too asap to check my rights.
Then I said sth which I'm curious about. "I hope you don't think I'm stupid about what's going on" (I was referring to D connection to OM and that she's always getting super pretty before work etc. but I didn't say that). And she then tried to find out what my current knowledge is by asking what I think. I refused to answer, distracted from the original question. She got anxious and tried to push for an answer and I just said "does it matter what I think or know?" and refused to answer. After a few attempts she let it go.
I definitely made her curious about what I know. Gets her thinking a bit.
But the mood between us is very cold. It really hurts to see how crazily distant we've become in such a short amount of time.
Any thoughts on if I did the right DB thing?
She has a "man", and has you doing repair works that he should be doing or paying for.
The idealized cake eating fantasy is they have a man in the home who provides emotional and financial support and the "man on the side" who is used for sex and fun.
Husband bears all the stress and payment and literally pays for the OM to please his wife.
Many times they use the husbands money to buy them gifts, and take them out.
Like I said, if she wants you to do some "man" work for her, remind her she already has a "man" and she chose him and it's not you, so let him do it.
Another balance I need to find is between being positive around her but enforcing my boundaries at the same time which will appear to W as being rude or upset her.
I can do this!!! I feel really detached. But I know if W would start being nice to me it'll be hard to resist to have strong feelings for her. She has the most beautiful smile in the world..but I haven't seen it in so long
Starsky what in general is the benefit of NC or almost NC in my situation VS at some point trying to regain trust to each other/being very positive around W?
I'm not Starsky, but I'll take a stab at your question. In this moment in time you have to keep in mind that you are not even a blip on your W's emotional radar. You could be doing back flips whilst drinking a glass of water and it still would have made no difference. 0, nada, zilch. Even if you are the friendliest little puppy that ever lived, you have 0 chance of success, because in her eyes romantically you DO NOT EXIST. YOU CANNOT NICE YOUR W BACK!!! We all have tried it, against the advice of the vets and we all have failed.
Have you read DB? Honestly?
The ONLY way to get her back is to go against what seems logical. I am sure your logical mind is telling you to be extra nice to her, to do stuff for her and the fog will lift she will snap out of it and fall madly in love with you again. Nope, ain't happening. In her mind you had your chance and you blew it.
The only way is to let her go. She might come back, she might not. She has a journey to complete and so do you. And the sooner you get on with it, the sooner you will start living again. I am sure you will agree with me that this limbo you are in now is not a life by a long shot, not even close. In fact I am sure you sometimes would rather not exist at all than to endure all this pain. You have to grow for YOU, you have to put YOURSELF first, you have to get the focus of HER and onto YOU. You cannot help her. You can start your journey and she will follow, but do not wait for her to start following you.
I'm sure you are thinking that you are different, your W is different, you can nice her back... Try if you must, but the odds are heavily against you.
Detach for your own sanity, GAL, make that W of yours wonder why the hell are you not miserable, why the hell you are not crying your eyes out and pleading her to return. Go, live your life for you. I am sure you have your stuff on the back burner that you want to do. Well guess what, now you just got the time do do it.
I'm not Starsky, but I'll take a stab at your question. In this moment in time you have to keep in mind that you are not even a blip on your W's emotional radar. You could be doing back flips whilst drinking a glass of water and it still would have made no difference. 0, nada, zilch. Even if you are the friendliest little puppy that ever lived, you have 0 chance of success, because in her eyes romantically you DO NOT EXIST. YOU CANNOT NICE YOUR W BACK!!! We all have tried it, against the advice of the vets and we all have failed.
Have you read DB? Honestly?
The ONLY way to get her back is to go against what seems logical. I am sure your logical mind is telling you to be extra nice to her, to do stuff for her and the fog will lift she will snap out of it and fall madly in love with you again. Nope, ain't happening. In her mind you had your chance and you blew it.
The only way is to let her go. She might come back, she might not. She has a journey to complete and so do you. And the sooner you get on with it, the sooner you will start living again. I am sure you will agree with me that this limbo you are in now is not a life by a long shot, not even close. In fact I am sure you sometimes would rather not exist at all than to endure all this pain. You have to grow for YOU, you have to put YOURSELF first, you have to get the focus of HER and onto YOU. You cannot help her. You can start your journey and she will follow, but do not wait for her to start following you.
I'm sure you are thinking that you are different, your W is different, you can nice her back... Try if you must, but the odds are heavily against you.
Detach for your own sanity, GAL, make that W of yours wonder why the hell are you not miserable, why the hell you are not crying your eyes out and pleading her to return. Go, live your life for you. I am sure you have your stuff on the back burner that you want to do. Well guess what, now you just got the time do do it.
Well I *am* Starsky, and I wouldn't change a WORD of that! Awesome (albeit tough) advice.
I'm glad I asked the question the way I did because I needed this kick in the groin again. I did read DR, but the parts about last resort and after last resort tecniques are short.
But actually I was more wondering about what NC is actually doing. It does feel counterproductive bc since NC wife is pulling away more and more. Starsky said it before, W will notice changes for the simple fact that she's a woman and they do this kind of stuff well. But since a month now things are getting worse and worse so I'd rather have some sort of communication and be uplifting but detached. I suppose I'm very impatient. Wife will NOT wonder that I'm not crying and pledging and moving on, she'll just feel more comfortable about her actions. And she'll be happy to see me more happy. But this is not going to cause anything directly. It only implies the chance of a fresh start after a lot of personal growth. But since OM is in the pic somewhere this obstacle is very very hard to conquer.
Ok enough of that because I made good detaching progress...and I started picturing a life without her. It's in front of my eyes.
I cannot say enough about the value of GAL and Detaching. It is so hard to do, but when you do it, you will feel better and be more positive. And your W may find you more attractive but she also may be gone forever. If that is the case, do you want to spend the next 6-12 months pining away for her? Or would you rather get on with your life?
Re: NC/detachment vs. being positive. They are not mutually exclusive. When you are around her, you are strong and positive. You are confident. You are happy, which is hard to be in your situation. But, as you GAL and Detach, you will become happier. You will become more positive.
You need to focus on your heart and spirit. You cannot change her and her emotions. There is nothing that you need from her to be whole. You are loved and worthy, not by your W but by life, the universe, God and everyone around you.
And the BGP thing: my W actually has them n, she always did. Maybe not emotionally, but in life she's a very independent woman. She doesn't need me...
She just has her own style if doing things, and you better do not ever interfere with it, bc she never wants to get told what to do or how to do it.
So I ditched her with helping, she might be in 'I'll make him put his BBPs on' payback-mode (which is ultimately right, I understand her, the picture she has of me). We will see.
I cannot say enough about the value of GAL and Detaching. It is so hard to do, but when you do it, you will feel better and be more positive. And your W may find you more attractive but she also may be gone forever. If that is the case, do you want to spend the next 6-12 months pining away for her? Or would you rather get on with your life?
Re: NC/detachment vs. being positive. They are not mutually exclusive. When you are around her, you are strong and positive. You are confident. You are happy, which is hard to be in your situation. But, as you GAL and Detach, you will become happier. You will become more positive.
You need to focus on your heart and spirit. You cannot change her and her emotions. There is nothing that you need from her to be whole. You are loved and worthy, not by your W but by life, the universe, God and everyone around you.
Dude, let me spell it out really simple for you. Your need to have some sort of communication with her shows you are not detaching and certainly not detached. This also shows that you have EXPECTATIONS and you should have NONE. Because expectation only leads to HEARTBREAK. You will soon notice that after ever communication you ache all over and soon you will learn to love the communication blackout, because every time you hear her voice, you will be reminded of her, and that will hurt over and over again.
And if you are positive in the interactions with her, she will just think oh good, he is ok with my actions. Are you?
Hör auf verdammt nochmal...
Thanks Vapo!
I'm making progress detaching, slowly but surely. Can't deny I miss my life with her and that I do have hopes. My expectations are very very low tho, but not none.
I have to stick with my plan. 25yr always told me nothing works unless you go with it for at least a few weeks, if not months.
I have a last session with a DB coach, might use it soon to really make sure I stay on track. I not only need more time to detach but also to get over my depression and build my life.
Is there more resource than DR on 'how to deal with S, if someone filed for D or is about to?'
Google "the stages and lessons of midlife" and you might strike gold...
Is there more resource than DR on 'how to deal with S, if someone filed for D or is about to?'
What are you looking for? More guidance on how to act? You seem to have some difficulties already following the DB advice, often being quite emotional, unsure about everything and not staying on track. It seems to me that what you need most right now is to be centered, calm and trust the process. It will get worse before it gets better.
The other thing is that you don't have control. It's not about finding another method or piece of advice that will magically give you control to stop the D. All that I've read and heard aligns with DB: let go, focus on yourself, detach, etc. There's no silver bullet.
I actually do DB ok recently, what's in my head is not necessarily reflecting my actions. I'm pretty disciplined.
I'm just looking for more specific advice, techniques in everyday-life situations and how to deal with S and D talk or when W is bringing it up or general interaction with W (which to a certain extend will be unavoidable).
Did anyone read Jack Ito "Connecting through saying yes" and "How one of you can bring the two of you together" by Susan Page?
General update: my GAL projects are going well and I feel some energy coming back into me. Plus I feel better detached although I use this forum her Asa catalyst to rant, vent and ask questions to which most if them I know the answer already. But I occupies me and I always get new advice here...or old one that I still didn't dig well enough.
Valentine's day I have a date at the Casino playing a poker tournament lol.
College classes are going well. Work is getting better, social life starts improving.
IC helps too. That was a huge step for me personally. Never thought I'd need or do that.
There's a family/ family friends event coming up which I'm scared of. I committed to it long time ago helping setting up and pouring wine and doing some wine education. I don't know who will be there (not even if W is going), neither do I have any idea if soneone knows yet. Gonna be rough but I said I'll help so I will.
Officially on mesa now (Prozac). Temporarily my doctor said, just to get through the separation so I will be able to function.
I am still critical but I'll give it a shot. Yesterday I felt great, thought no way I need mesa. Today I feel down...but maybe also bc I worked out like crazy last two days, so I'm actualky just beat^^
We will see how it goes. Supposed to take 6-8 weeks until it works...hope it won't get wirse at first like many reported here. Gotta hang in there.
*meds.
Hm, today for the first time I started doubting if W is actually right for me. I still love her. But I don't know how this could work. Just another day with another emotion I guess. But it's something that is for sure coming up from here on once in a while.
Did anyone have like "loss of love" while DBing? How did you deal with it?
Thanks
Well...how do I deal with W leaving the house to go somewhere (at night). She doesn't look like 1000$ but hair is done, makeup on, which a while ago wasn't that usual.
So when she just left I gave her a look and said have fun, but more in a "where are you going?" tone...
Then she explained to me where she is actually going (true or not). Old work friend in town, few ppl going. Blabla. This sht makes me mad, true or not.
I obviously have trust and controlling issues still.
Should I rather be uplifting and say have fun? Say nothing? Or let her know I don't agree with what she's doing (which is an assumption, and will make her mad if I'm wrong)?
And does it make sense to apologize for making her justify herself?
I appreciate your input on this...Starsky
and others
I would say nothing. What do you want her to say. She's off to see OM?
I know my wife will be with OM at some point these next couple of days and that she has got him a gift and card. I don't need her to tell me that.
Following along. Still catching up on your sitch but wanted to say that all I've read so far of your story is very typical.
As far as your feelings towards wife, you will cycle through loving her, being obsessed., being indifferent, and even Maybe hating her? Its normal during this traumatic experience.
I'll be reading along until I fully understand your situation.
Complex, all that you are feeling is normal. You can now see why we all say to you to detach for your own sanity. You have to separate your feelings, because it will eat you inside if you don't. And as I said in one of my previous answers, it will lift a HUGE weight of your shoulders when you do.
Just give it time. And time is something you have a lot of now. Don't sit home alone feeling sorry for yourself, go out, mingle, go to the gym, even if you don't feel like it at the moment. Fake it until you make it.
I see you are hurting inside when your W goes out, you want to believe her, and you pray to god that she isn't doing anything. The sad truth is you really cannot believe her at this time. Just accept that your W as you knew her, checked out and there is currently another person, an alien, invading her body.
Trust nothing she says and only half of what she does. Believe me, I know how you feel, but you must believe me IT DOES GET BETTER. Just give it time.
And oh yeah, do not ask here where she is going, who with, when she's coming back, do not wait up for her, remember, she WILL LIE to you, even if she's been honest before the BD.
Read up on boundaries and do ask questions. No one here will judge you, we understand EXACTLY what you are going trough...
Keep you chin up complex
I know it is really hard. DO NOT BELEIVE A WORD SHE SAYS! she will lie and do what ever it takes to keep her affair going. Its an addiction. A drug. My wife is doing exactly the same. Asking me if im ok one minute with her puppy dog eyes, then walking out the door the next off to see OM with his VD gift and her new sexy undies on. It is all bullsh1t. stay well
Hi Complex
Some good advice from the others there....
I think the place to aim for is one where your W tells you she's going out, but you barely wonder where she's going or who with. Maybe that's because you have a nice GAL plan yourself. Or maybe you have just got yourself to a place where you accept the situation.
Acceptance is where you truly accept - she has checked out of our M, she is wayward, there's an OP involved, she may or may not be lying today - all brutal reality - but I'm ok....now, what lovely things do I plan to do next with my life.
Please don't think I'm downplaying the anguish here - I'm just saying that the anguish doesn't help you and it doesn't help your aim of restoring your M either. So, if you can find a way to process and keep moving forwards, that's the best plan.
That's a tough one to be honest. I'm fine in general, I know she's gone, but if she'd be constantly lying to me while we still live together, that's crossing my boundaries. I don't think I can accept that.
So if my W is living with me, going out to see OM and lying about it..something I'd have to think about if I can accept that and what I should do about it (for myself). I don't know if that's a feeling of me being controlling at this point or just plain madness. Everyone I know would not accept this and kick her out/move out and go viral. I just wish I'd know where I'm at. This guessing game is very unhealthy for me GAL and detaching. Can't afford an apartment right now tho.
I feel really anxious today, must be the meds. I slept horribly bad too. I feel like weeks ago...I really have to hold myself back not getting into any discussions with W while the meds throw me back like this.
Thanks guys for the support.
Well...how do I deal with W leaving the house to go somewhere (at night). She doesn't look like 1000$ but hair is done, makeup on, which a while ago wasn't that usual.
So when she just left I gave her a look and said have fun, but more in a "where are you going?" tone...
Then she explained to me where she is actually going (true or not). Old work friend in town, few ppl going. Blabla. This sht makes me mad, true or not.
I obviously have trust and controlling issues still.
Should I rather be uplifting and say have fun? Say nothing? Or let her know I don't agree with what she's doing (which is an assumption, and will make her mad if I'm wrong)?
And does it make sense to apologize for making her justify herself?
I appreciate your input on this...Starsky
and others
In my sitch, I looked at her and said "I certainly hope you're not going out to meet your boyfriend (this was on the 4th of July, after taking our boys for fireworks... a family tradition was always to come home afterwards and shoot off our own together as a family, but she was getting dressed to blow this off and head out); that would be really disrespectful to me and the boys." She told me she was going to a party, and he would NOT be there, and I said "I wish I could believe that. Please be safe."
But I ONLY did that because my intel told me that she WAS, in fact, meeting her OM. I would never recommend "flying blind" on a statement like that, as you'd look like a controlling fool if you were wrong.
Starsky
Well...how do I deal with W leaving the house to go somewhere (at night). She doesn't look like 1000$ but hair is done, makeup on, which a while ago wasn't that usual.
So when she just left I gave her a look and said have fun, but more in a "where are you going?" tone...
Then she explained to me where she is actually going (true or not). Old work friend in town, few ppl going. Blabla. This sht makes me mad, true or not.
I obviously have trust and controlling issues still.
Should I rather be uplifting and say have fun? Say nothing? Or let her know I don't agree with what she's doing (which is an assumption, and will make her mad if I'm wrong)?
And does it make sense to apologize for making her justify herself?
I appreciate your input on this...Starsky
and others
In my sitch, I looked at her and said "I certainly hope you're not going out to meet your boyfriend (this was on the 4th of July, after taking our boys for fireworks... a family tradition was always to come home afterwards and shoot off our own together as a family, but she was getting dressed to blow this off and head out); that would be really disrespectful to me and the boys." She told me she was going to a party, and he would NOT be there, and I said "I wish I could believe that. Please be safe."
But I ONLY did that because my intel told me that she WAS, in fact, meeting her OM. I would never recommend "flying blind" on a statement like that, as you'd look like a controlling fool if you were wrong.
Starsky
After that did you care if she participated in events with you or not?
Oh man, I'm not in a good state of mind today.
Why did W spend 15 minutes in the bathroom after she came back yesterday night? (She was only out for 3h, including driving that's not very long). And why are there no bra's or underwear in the hamper from yesterday?
And I saw she also bought new underwear.
This stinks...something must be going on or she is just getting prepared for single life, taking better care of herself and spending the money that she soon has to spend on attorney fees and me. Either way, this is BS...or these meds are kicking in. Susana had the same issues big time. Another day another challenge.
But right now I feel determined to find out if EA went PA. This would feel like a game changer. Although EAs of women are probably even worse since emotions for them is what sex is for us...I don't know why I'm still kind of convinced that she wouldn't go physical while she's still married, but maybe she threw her morals over board, I know how that feels like, been there! Only good thing about that would be that her A is infatuated and not likely to last.
I need some serious GAL activities for today but my energy level is lowest since a few weeks and my mind is all over...not good
Ya Starsky, you are very right. If I am just guessing I'll just come across as a controlling, desperate freak.
But at this point I have no evidence of whatsoever. She encrypted her iphone backup and changed her passcode a while ago. I have no way of finding things out at the moment. So I have to hold myself back...which I have to do big time anyway.
If I'm in the state that I'm in right now I clearly better go out of her way.
Complex,
I'm sorry you're reeling. This is rough stuff, to be sure.
I'd like to get you to just prepare your heart that this has most likely gone physical, and probably not just recently. Most men do not stick around in EAs for 8 months without "a little somethin'" and at some point, if she hasn't already, your wife is going to give in to that if she's still not committed to the marriage.
Rather than make yourself crazy, I would encourage you to just operate from a position of she's already having a PA, and act accordingly. Because A), all the reasons above, and B) EAs -- esp. long-term ones -- are stronger for a woman than a PA anyway, in most cases.
If you REALLY have to know, I guess you could just hire a PI.
Starsky
hey complex
I agree with Starsky. I think you need to just accept the reality is she is probably sleeping with him. My wife was same, new underwear appeared it was just more confirmation of what I already knew. It makes little difference. For a woman the physical is just an extension of the EA. Women sleep with a man when they are emotionally connected.
You need to push it out of your mind. It will drive you crazy if you don't.
If you want to know then you could find out but do you really want to see/hear your wife with another man? I certainly don't. I know enough already.
I should listen to the vets. But putting the pieces together it could be either way.
Schedule doesn't allow that they even see much. Only time possible is like once a week when she meets "friends for dinner" which usually never lasts longer than 3-4h including driving. Not her style to go for a quickie and come back. Plus I know some of them and they know me, so I could easily ask someone which would make it very risky for her.
New underwear still has the tags on^^
Plus: I know for a fact OM didn't make any moves on her (at least at the time whee I snooped), even turned down dinner invitations from her.
But like I said, if it is a PA, so be it, bc it'll proof that it's pretty infatuated.
Either way I should assume it's there and act accordingly. If it's not its ok too.
If she is really that perfectly sneaky, I'll pull my hat (been there done that myself) but also most likely pull the cord of my parachute and get the hell out of this M knowing I definitely married the wrong person.
Hi Complex....who knows, and best not to focus on it too much. Let's see a post all about you and what your GAL plans are...
If there is new underwear involced, it is physical. I am sorry to have to tell you this. I had the same situation and it made me sick to my stomach.
Where's that Homer Simpson face-palm emoticon when you need it?
I was just gonna ask if I should just let it go. My parents keep nagging me "how can you still live together while everyone is doing his own thing, there's needs to be a decision, yes or no, there's no such thing as NC in a marriage, you have to talk to her".
They are old fashioned, and I really understand where they are coming from. It's a good thing. People with tradition have a strong attitude. It's on or it's off, but as we all know not everything is black and white. But they stand for their values, which is a good thing.
My mentor aways says: you surround yourself with mediocre people, you become mediocre.
GAL for today: popping my next Prozac (scared), car inspection, making work phone calls, then tonight I need sth to do - gotta ask friends to go out with me bc I can't stay home with W, no way. Maybe I'll go surfing later too
Where's that Homer Simpson face-palm emoticon when you need it?
Duh
! I mean ya she went way to far but Starsky I tell you, her moral mistakes could have been worse. She 'tried' and told me everything. I do believe in her having some sort of respect and values left. I was there too. Of course there's a chance she got so annoyed that she started giving a Sht and just let it happen.
If so, how in the world did you forgive her, how long did that take you?
Right now I'm on the screw this side, feeling I married the wrong person. I told her that once and she totally agreed lol. I deserve better than this! I truly do!!!
Complex, I would suggest to you that you -- once again -- take a deep breath, and realize that there's an ENTIRE GULF of positions and attitudes that you can take in between "Screw this!" and "I trust her completely -- that wouldn't be her style."
W btw told me a bit ago "you'll never trust me when I go out, I don't know what to do, so I guess I just let you assume".
Sounds super scripty to me. If I trust her is up to me she said.
I just told her it's not about trust, more about respect, trust is followed by respect.
I don't even know if this conversation with her makes any sense at all!?
Wonder what her definition of respect is tho.
OK ok I have to let it go for today. Feeling better letting it all out here.
The point I was trying to get across was the same one I try to get across to everybody who has been betrayed by infidelity: "YOUR SPOUSE IS NOT WHO YOU THOUGHT SHE/HE WAS in this state!" Any time I see someone post "Oh, she would never ..." or "It wouldn't be his style to ...." or "Oh, you don't know my wife, she's not like that ...." it leaps off the page at me.
I don't personally like the whole "aliens" term, because for one I think it dehumanizes them and two it absolves them of too much responsibility for their choices, but it's closer to the truth than "he/she would never do that" most of the time.
W btw told me a bit ago "you'll never trust me when I go out, I don't know what to do, so I guess I just let you assume".
Sounds super scripty to me. If I trust her is up to me she said.
I just told her it's not about trust, more about respect, trust is followed by respect.
A better answer would have been "Trust is earned. When your actions begin to line up with your words, consistently over time, then maybe I can trust you again. Right now, I'm afraid I don't, based on how you've lied to me."
Complex, I would suggest to you that you -- once again -- take a deep breath, and realize that there's an ENTIRE GULF of positions and attitudes that you can take in between "Screw this!" and "I trust her completely -- that wouldn't be her style."
The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Thing about truth itself is it's ultimate.
And my position on things obviously is going off with my emotions, up and down, but I think I'm moving within heatlhy and mature boundaries at least.
W btw told me a bit ago "you'll never trust me when I go out, I don't know what to do, so I guess I just let you assume".
Sounds super scripty to me. If I trust her is up to me she said.
I just told her it's not about trust, more about respect, trust is followed by respect.
A better answer would have been "Trust is earned. When your actions begin to line up with your words, consistently over time, then maybe I can trust you again. Right now, I'm afraid I don't, based on how you've lied to me."
I'll use this line or similar next time. Thanks, sounds much better.
Thanks Starsky! You always got great situational advice.
I guess I should wait for the right situation before I throw this line out ...
Interesting - reading this content about lying. When my H told me about his PA, he said - in a very impassioned way - that the lying and deception was the 'worst thing that had ever happened to him.'
It only really occured to me just now that lying and deception doesn't 'happen to you.' You do it yourself......
And I get the comment about people not being themselves. My H always valued fidelity so highly and was so honest. I would never have dreamed this would happen.
Yes. It's a DECISION to cheat and to lie. Maybe one altered by circumstances, or the damn devil himself. We lose who we really are getting sukked up in a journey of emotions.
Point to consider is that WAS's checked out of the marriage, so in their head it only exists on paper (W's words), which eventually leads to validation that the "A" is ok. Bc M is over anyway. And I don't even know..it's partially true, but just disrrspectful and selfish on the highest level,...I guess no matter of the circumstances, it always is.
I guess it's also one thing: human
I guess I should wait for the right situation before I throw this line out ...
Yes, always deliver truth darts in CONTEXT: in response to something she says or does, as the timing is appropriate. Otherwise, it comes across as a tactic, or just a grand pronouncement.
Hang in there and don't make any rash decisions when you're still adjusting to meds. I'm felling much better now (around a week in) but I imagine it varies by person. Definitely don't decide anything now.
Yes, I gotta control myself. I feel anxiety which I have t had before. Like I'm on speed, but very weird. Pumped but tired and I don't like to talk to humans^^
Strange feeling.
Can someone translate what W said a while ago? I don't know if I should read into this at all but I think es h quote has s clear message, it just needs to be decrypted psychologically:
"You can't control me, even if you tried" (answer to me saying "I'm not trying to control you"
"Nothing I can say will make you trust me right now anyways".
Regarding the family/friends even if an organization they are in: "I don't wanna leave you alone, I'll come. I want to support you bc you are helping us"
Ok sht I shouldn't even be asking. I'll leave the house now and go surfing as long as it's bright out. But wow these fkn meds. Got heat rushes too.
I know my body very well..I took drugs when I was young, I know how this sht feels like. It's not severe but sth is going on and it's not very pleasant
I won't be able to hide my medication from W for ever either. I'm under her health plan. Should I tell her or let her find out herself?
There will be a lot projection going on. She doesn't believe herself even at this point, so she's turning it around on you and accusing you of not believing her. And we knows you are right to not believe her because she's lying about all of it. You will see more of this as she continues to try to convince herself that this is just how you are...and that is why the marriage failed. Not because of the real reason which is her actually starting another relationship while pretending to be married...no that isn't the reason...the reason is that she married someone who doesn't believe anything she says and doesn't trust her. Her new man trusts her (Which is not actually true because he now knows what she's capable of).
I suspect what is going on now is that OP is extremely insecure about her still living with you. He feels threatened because you and her have shared history and he has a few weeks with a cheating married woman. He's telling her there will be no relationship unless she moves out and so she is pretending to push for that so she can tell him she is trying but you won't cooperate.
She will try to maintain the status quo of her seeing him but also still being married and living there in case things backfire...she is enjoying the thrill of two men pursuing her which is why you need to pull out of that game.
She won't tell her family I don't think.. not soon anyway. Not without another game changer.
Thanks for the psychological breakdown. This is very important to understand IMO because we husbands are not capable of making these connections.
I agree OM for sure is insecure. I remember him asking her in a text if we still live together, like 2-3 months ago. She calls me roommate in their texts. But she tried to 'convince' him that it's over and it's ok to go with these feelings.
"Wanting to be my 'friend' comes with responsibilities" W told him and "we all make mistakes, so we are allowed to start all over, right?". He didn't really react but W also was like "it's going to be a friendly divorce, the most amicable of all" and he was like "they don't exist in my book".
Contact between them wasn't like crazy, but crossed the line big time.
But the worst for me was when she told her friend "I have to tell him
H found out, I want to do this right, my heart is in knots, I hope I dong lose him over this"..and friend just like "aw I'm so proud of you". As hurtful as it gets.
W and OM don't just only have few weeks together. They are long time work friends. Which for W is a much better R foundation than ours...
Ya I don't think she told family yet, but my mom is about to. Not sure if I can or want to stop her. No idea if there's any benefit tho. Right now W is patiently sitting out the renewal of my Greencard before she will make the next move. But I will wait sending it until couple weeks bf the deadline or so. Everything that buys me time is welcome right now.
But I mean what should I do right now other than keep detaching and get my own life on track if anything at all?? Guess it's ok to put this stress into W and OM relationship by stretching things? I'm getting better for sure and some changes are showing but it'll take a lot more time until I'm the person I really want to be.
If that will then include W I'm not so sure about anymore, that's up to her. But the time WILL come after I got my greencard when she's going to the next step. I know it. Nothing I can do/work towards that day is there? We are talking about 2 months..
One more thing: when we talked 2-3 weeks ago she told me "I'm not meeting OM outside of work, he even doesn't talk to me anymore, avoiding me at work (..) he's immature when it comes to relationships, way more than you"
Why the F did she tell me this?
It's been a while so no idea what the deal is right now. But what ev's. I'll do my thing. There's for sure still some confusion going on in W's head. Situation is way to crazy for that not to be the case.
She should get IC too, wouldn't hurt her.
The friend who is PROUD of your cheating wife is called the enabler. Those kinds of friends become the crisis persons best friend during times like these ..And they provide backing and full support when cheating person is in doubt.
W will become good friends with this "friend". Any friends she stops seeing are the ones that are not approving of her behavior.
But anyway let's leave this all alone for a while...
How was surfing? What have YOU been upto?
Surging was absolutely awesome!
then I met with a friend. Today I'll go to the casino for fun.
But my anxiety is pretty bad. I hardly slept tonight. Feel like a zombie on speed.
Had talk with W too. She assured me she is not seeing this guy and that she never did outside of work. She played it down and I don't really trust her.
I feel the urge of snooping on her again. Feel like I need the validation if she is speaking the truth or not. I know it doesn't/shouldn't matter..I don't know...
don't do it complex. Your only opening yourself up to more pain. I know because I keep doing it!!! damn n blast.
Just concentrate on you. Do not believe a word she says to you. My wife just lies and speaks the utter most BS I have ever heard just to check i'm still there dancing to her tune. I'm sometimes laughing on the inside about what actually comes out of her mouth.
Get this one. the other day because I hadn't told her something I was doing and then later on proceeded to do so she said word for word "so you're keeping secrets now are you"
hahahahahah I nearly fell of my chair I wanted to laugh so hard. I was looking at her in astonishment that she had just actually said this to me. DO NOT BELEIVE A WORD THEY SAY!!
It might cause more pain initially but then I'll heal faster I think.
To a certain extend I believer her. I want to believd her so bad.
And I know everyone is warning me and warned me before but she told me the truth for the most part, she was just stretching it. But ya I should just let it go but it's so hard. I don't even know how to snoop anyway. I'd have to buy a gps tracker ...
Alright GAL time. But the meds are killing me. Almost no sleep, super anxious
Don't snoop, and don't believe the W. The MLCers area devious bunch. They will say some truths, perhaps even offer it, but they WILL LIE and HIDE facts from you. DETACH, this way you will not give a rat's A$$ and it is highly liberating. Snooping and making inquiries just drive you crazy. I know, believe me I do... Even if you snoop and find nothing, that will not prove anything. Just trust me, you don't want to know...
It's her monkey and it's her circus...
Ya. She does keep facts 100%. She of course believes we are not in any R, so she owes me nothing. I don't know I mean it's kind of true. She doesn't owe me anything if she doesn't want to. The vows ok....oh well, different story.
I'll really try not to snoop. I'm hoping my mind gets straight on these meds. I feel like after BD today. Crazy stuff.
Happy Valentine's Day everyone lol
Ya. She does keep facts 100%. She of course believes we are not in any R, so she owes me nothing. I don't know I mean it's kind of true. She doesn't owe me anything if she doesn't want to. The vows ok....oh well, different story.
I'll really try not to snoop. I'm hoping my mind gets straight on these meds. I feel like after BD today. Crazy stuff.
Happy Valentine's Day everyone lol
"F" the vows. Don't worry about that. Your partner is forgoing them and dogging you out with a new friend aiding in the process.
Worry about yourself, celebrate holidays, V-day, b-day, christmass for yourself. Make yourself strong.
And remember, no matter how clean, tite, strong you are they can still cheat on you. You have to be man enough to not take it.
I know exactly how you are impacted and I know it hurts a lot, when you shift the focus to yourself it won't hurt anymore.h