OK, need a little guidance.
Wife and I have spoken a little and texted a little this morning. Some business, some quasi-business. All fine.
This afternoon I decided I was going to reach out and either text or call her. As I'm reaching for the phone, she calls. I'll transcribe the beginning and end of the call as well as the subsequent texts.
Me: Hello
Wife:What ya doin?
Me: Thinking about you
Wife:Awe, that's sweet. What else?
Me: On my way to get the girls
Wife:Cool. I think you should let them play outside today since it's so nice out.
Me: Yeah, it's beautiful today, I was already planning on that. Gonna load up the bikes and everything...
(talk talk talk, blah blah blah, talk talk talk, conversation coming to end,)
Wife:Well, I just called to tell you to let the girls play outside...
Me: Whatever.
Wife:No really, that's it. I'm not that nice. I know you wish I was that nice, but I'm not.
Me: I think you are nice
Wife:Well... I'm not. I don't think so at all, I'm just not nice.
Me: Okay. (puzzled)
Wife:Well, I gotta get back to it, got lots of packages still. I'll talk to you later.
Me: Ok, bye.
Texting:
Me: You used to be that nice, what happened?
Wife:I'm broken
Me: Why?
Wife:I'm trying to be nice
Me: What does that mean? (<-- I could have left this out I think)
Me: J***, we're all broken. And who knows about all your brokenness better than me? (<-- Maybe a little much, too)
(Still no reply an hour later, not expecting one either.)
I want to tell her that I forgive her. Don't know if I should. She obviously doesn't see the road home smooth and paved or we wouldn't be having these types of conversations.
Maybe I just need to keep working on me and stay where I was and not court just yet.
So about 2 hours ago she texts wanting to know what we're doing. She wants to come by and visit for a little while.
Pleasant visit. Kids really enjoyed seeing her. We got the girls in the tub and in the kitchen the wife starts rubbing my belly and chest asking me if I've lost more weight because I look really good. Etc. I move to touch her and she backs off being coy and giggling. She wont let me touch, but she's playing. I mentioned something we haven't done in a while and her eyes lit up and got real big for a sec, then she said she had to go because she was tired and very hungry. I offered to buy her dinner tonight (not as a date, but I told her to go wherever she wanted to go and I would buy), of course she accepted.
She sent a text a few minutes ago thanking me for the Chili's take-out she got.
Marathon, Jefe, Marathon....
So about 2 hours ago she texts wanting to know what we're doing. She wants to come by and visit for a little while.
Pleasant visit. Kids really enjoyed seeing her. We got the girls in the tub and in the kitchen the wife starts rubbing my belly and chest asking me if I've lost more weight because I look really good. Etc. I move to touch her and she backs off being coy and giggling. She wont let me touch, but she's playing. I mentioned something we haven't done in a while and her eyes lit up and got real big for a sec, then she said she had to go because she was tired and very hungry. I offered to buy her dinner tonight (not as a date, but I told her to go wherever she wanted to go and I would buy), of course she accepted.
She sent a text a few minutes ago thanking me for the Chili's take-out she got.
Marathon, Jefe, Marathon....
Persuing is when you ask her things or try to supplicate her. Pulling back is when she touches your chest and belly seeing how tite you are getting.
Be your own man, you chased her long enough. Let her chase or lay back. That's your choices. Enjoy your life. Kissing her a$$ on anything at this point is a mistake.
You are the prize.
I offered to buy her dinner tonight (not as a date, but I told her to go wherever she wanted to go and I would buy), of course she accepted.
She sent a text a few minutes ago thanking me for the Chili's take-out she got.
I think your heart is in the right place but I strongly urge you to proceed with caution before doing this again.
Your goal is to build a relationship with your wife. You need to ask yourself what kind of relationship you are building if she is eating take-out without you?
If she choose to eat take-out without you this may not be a choice you want to financially subsidize.
Jefe I like the title of your new thread. Wishing good things for you and your family!
Just received this text from the wife:
"So if i ever did decided to come back in the marriage what would that look like/entale?"
Hi Jefe - This reads a bit like - hey, if I decided I wanted you back at some point how would that work. Has your W ever shown true remorse for what has happened? It doesn't read like true remorse. Are you willing to settle for less than true remorse?
You could respond with something like - Hey, this is a big question to answer by text, but we can talk about it at some point if you want? Then leave well alone until or unless your W raises it?
When she does, be ready to lay down your conditions. Remember Jefe, your W has been unfaithful. This is a time for her to win you back, not the other way round, okay?
I would avoid getting into a text discussion about this..
Hi Jefe - This reads a bit like - hey, if I decided I wanted you back at some point how would that work. Has your W ever shown true remorse for what has happened? It doesn't read like true remorse. Are you willing to settle for less than true remorse?
You could respond with something like - Hey, this is a big question to answer by text, but we can talk about it at some point if you want? Then leave well alone until or unless your W raises it?
When she does, be ready to lay down your conditions. Remember Jefe, your W has been unfaithful. This is a time for her to win you back, not the other way round, okay?
I would avoid getting into a text discussion about this..
x 2 to all that ^^^^.
My favorite responses in these key situations are either:
"Hmmm, I'm not sure how I feel about that anymore."
Or
""I'm afraid it's not that simple anymore. I'd have to think about it, as I'm not sure how I feel about this anymore."
Starsky
Agreed that this is not text worthy at all. I think I am going to suggest we meet with one of the pastors to guide any reconciliation, expectations, etc. This was my sponsor's advice.
wait...
She just called, basically wanting to know if I got her text and said she was fixing to go into a movie and didn't want to talk right now. I said, that's fine.
I think I am going to let this steep for a little while.
No, there has been no remorse about anything and I think she needs to show some, but we are inching closer to piecing and that's a good thing. Me trying to push it along won't do any good. This is her's to fix at this particular point and time. I have to let her do it, or it won't stick, I'm afraid.
Hey Jefe
Ive been reading over you threads with interest. I also just found out that my wife is having a PA.
Your posts have made me feel better. Suppose im part of the club now. Not a club I wanted to be in but there's some great advice on how to deal with the whole thing.
Keep the posts coming. Your a lot further down the line than me. Its comforting to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel whichever tunnel it may be you end up in.
Agreed that this is not text worthy at all. I think I am going to suggest we meet with one of the pastors to guide any reconciliation, expectations, etc. This was my sponsor's advice.
wait...
She just called, basically wanting to know if I got her text and said she was fixing to go into a movie and didn't want to talk right now. I said, that's fine.
I think I am going to let this steep for a little while.
No, there has been no remorse about anything and I think she needs to show some, but we are inching closer to piecing and that's a good thing. Me trying to push it along won't do any good. This is her's to fix at this particular point and time. I have to let her do it, or it won't stick, I'm afraid.
A couple of things:
First: I disagree with letting anything remain unanswered between you and your wife. She asked a direct question and deserves a direct and timely response.
Second: All communication with your wife should be honest and concise.
I agree with Toots. The best response would be, "Sorry for the delay in responding. I thought your question deserved a well-thought out response. And the truth is, this question is too big and too intimate to answer by text."
Third: I strongly recommend you initiate a discussion about bringing in the third party (such as your pastor) to work with both of you on what reconciliation might look like.
Have your pastor meet with you separately to discuss your expectations and goals. I think your wife would be amicable to this since it is not traditional marriage counseling.
I would suggest you two meet separately with your pastor twice (for a total of 4 individual meetings) before meeting together.
This will give you both an opportunity to discuss what your expectations are and then hear what your spouses expectations are--without your spouse present. Your pastor will be able to interpret for your spouse.
This way when you both meet as a couple:
(1) there won't be a battle to be heard,
(2) the sting of unmet expectations will be minimized,
(3) the pastor will have found common ground between the two of you.
I strongly believe her text wasn't a question. I believe it was a request. But, given your wife's history with lashing if she feels she is left emotionally vulnerable...I recommend you tread very gently.
That is an interesting idea. She may even like that. How do you see the text as a request? A request for information on how reconciliation would work or a request to come home?
Neither. Her text is asking for your vision.
"So if i ever did decided to come back in the marriage what would that look like/entale?"
Her text is an example of indirect communication. She is communicating information without being responsible for the information she is communicating.
As a man, you have probably done this type of communication a dozen times and not realized it.
For example, when you were a teenager you probably asked a girl, "If I asked you out on a date would you say yes?"
If the girl said, "Yes, I will go out with you" then you could ask her out without fear of rejection. But if she said, "No, I'm busy" then you could drop it without being rejected.
When your wife engages in this type of communication just accept as it is and don't analyze. As your relationship grows more intimate so will trust in communicating.
OK, that was my initial read on the text when it first came and is pretty typical of communication for her in certain types of situations.
Flood of unexpected emotions last night. Most of them not very useful. I have been so focused on the separation now that we are starting to come out the other side the emotions of all the things that happened to get us here are coming to the surface. Like I said, most of them not useful at all or conducive to marriage restoration, for that matter.
Good morning all.
The wife has the girls today, I cant wait to get them back. It was wet, rainy, miserably cold and just plain yukky all last week and for the 2nd day in a row it's going to 70 and sunny. We're going to have to find something fun to do for sure.
Last night the wife went to AlAnon, and tonight she has no pool because her and my mom will be spending the evening together working an event for a business they both do on the side. No pool on her new Wed night this week either. Weather is supposed to stay the same until Thur, maybe she can come spend some time with us.
Flood of unexpected emotions last night. Most of them not very useful. I have been so focused on the separation now that we are starting to come out the other side the emotions of all the things that happened to get us here are coming to the surface. Like I said, most of them not useful at all or conducive to marriage restoration, for that matter.
Fist, let me validate you. Your feelings are not abnormal.
When people are forced into a long-term crisis they have no emotional option but "survive." However when they finally see the "rescue ship" other emotions are permitted inside and they start to flood the system. This is when people tend to get into a lot of trouble.
Do not be fooled. You haven't been "rescued" yet.
If your wife returns to the marriage the rebuilding process will take a long time. And, during this time, you must have a strong handle on your emotions. Especially the emotion that demands justice.
I would suggest you develop a vision board. Something concrete that you can look at when you get overwhelmed. I would build the vision board like a pyramid.
On the foundation of the vision board is the smallest of goals (friendly conversation on a daily basis, obtaining a genuine smile, etc.) The next set of goals can be small displays of intimacy such as a brush of her hand across your arm, a wink, etc.
Go to the vision board when your feelings start to overwhelm. It will serve two purposes:
(1) It will show you how far you have traveled.
(2) It will remind you that you still need to reach your goal.
WOW, what a wonderful concept. Will do that today.
I know we are far from rescued, just getting a little punchy. It is literally with-in my grasp yet it is still about 2500 miles away and there may be several more detours yet.
This is not a trip for the squeamish, that's for sure.
Blogging:
Wife had the kids this morning and needed to come by the house to do a few things because the water was turned off at MIL's apartment building for some repair or something. I was working and she sent me this:
W: I cleaned the girls, bathrooms, kitchen, and coffee table.W: And Some laundryM: Thank You!
W: You're welcome 
She then called saying she was at Walgreens wanting to know if I needed her to get me anything while I was there. And I did.
Later, I texted her to let her know that I was home whenever she wanted to bring the kids.
W: ..We are at the Forney Dairy Queen. Bringing you back my steak fingers I didn't eat.~~~~~~
M: Thank you for everything you did today.
W: You're welcome.There are days like today that regardless of the situation we're currently in, I am thankful for my wife. There were other things, these were the highlights. That's a lot of "acts of service" for her in one day. Again, I'm smiling today and enjoying it, because tomorrow I may be a huddled mass on the floor in the fetal position. You never know.
Hi Ho, it's off to one of the multitude of nearby parks we go.
I'm glad for you that you had an ok day and can still be appreciative for your wife.
I see exactly what you are saying. I have mixed feelings about these "small positive things/days". They make you feel good for a bit, then double worse. But it's part of the rollercoasters ride. Sometimes I'm truly proud and surprised how we all go through this with so much strength. And it's scary how many people out there have the same problems. I'm so thankful for God taking me here! I don't know if I would've been able to get where I am right now in my heart without this forum.
But I can read between the lines that your heart is moving into the right direction. Keep going, keep praying, keep loving Jefe!
Btw are you still wearing your ring Jefe?
Thank you for the kind words, Complex. God's taking me through this.
My ring? Absolutely!
I carry on through my daily life as if I was still married,
because I am.
Besides, I am an example to my daughters of what they will be seeking in a man later in life. They are watching both of us very closely right now.
Blogging:
I forgot to mention that we got Grandma into an assisted living facility this past Saturday. Just a mile or so down the street and right behind the restaurant MIL works at. Handy for everyone, and she really likes it.
So the wife has been calling me on and off today. My truck was broken into last night/this morning and some of it has been business but only about half of it.
Around 11AM she calls and asks me if I would like to meet her over at MIL's work and walk over to Grandma's with her. She'd like us both to go visit and hang out for a few since she hasn't seen the place. So I throw on some nicer clothes, freshen up for a bit and race over there. I must say that I really enjoyed it. I think the wife did too. As I was pulling out of the parking lot she made a point of grabbing my attention and waving at me. We've called or texted at least 15 times since then for all sorts of things. I hang up and she calls back 3 minutes later with something else.
I'm irresistible like that.
Just kidding.
I enjoy these moments, but we're still so far away.
It's so hard being in these moments knowing you can't buy much stock in it. But I do feel like we're courting.
Blogging,
Beautiful sunny day here. Girls enjoyed the park for sure. So did I. I have lost another pound or 2 and some of my "skinny" clothes are starting to fit. It's nice to feel better about yourself. I didn't feel like a beached whale today
.
Wife called just to see what I/we were doing while we were at the park. She said she was going to AlAnon tonight.
All in all it's been a pretty good day, in spite of the theft of the Nabi and the Android tablet this morning.
Blogging,
Beautiful sunny day here. Girls enjoyed the park for sure. So did I. I have lost another pound or 2 and some of my "skinny" clothes are starting to fit. It's nice to feel better about yourself. I didn't feel like a beached whale today
.
Wife called just to see what I/we were doing while we were at the park. She said she was going to AlAnon tonight.
All in all it's been a pretty good day, in spite of the theft of the Nabi and the Android tablet this morning.
Keep going.... When you are starting to get there a lot get out of the program when they are getting close cause they are complacent to what they had before. Keep going and stay on it and make sure you achieve your final result. Dont' do it for her do it for you.
Blogging,
Wife came by for a short visit last night. She commented how good the house looked. While she was here the kids started chanting; Mommy and Daddy sitting in a tree, K I S.... You get the idea. The wife laughed and thought it was funny. It brought up some early memories we all talked about. It also gave me the opportunity to talk about the good things she has contributed to the marriage over the years. W said, "Your daddy has a good memory" she didn't stay long as she was wanting to catch an AlAnon meeting.
Got cold and wet here. Guess we're home-bodies this week.
Blogging,
Wife came by for a short visit last night. She commented how good the house looked. While she was here the kids started chanting; Mommy and Daddy sitting in a tree, K I S.... You get the idea. The wife laughed and thought it was funny. It brought up some early memories we all talked about. It also gave me the opportunity to talk about the good things she has contributed to the marriage over the years. W said, "Your daddy has a good memory" she didn't stay long as she was wanting to catch an AlAnon meeting.
Got cold and wet here. Guess we're home-bodies this week.
You gotta attack this thing like a war in Iraq where you don't want to suffer many losses. You can win this war, but it is not going to be through supplication at all. Some of the things you will do may be despicable, but it's to talk to her ego and psychology and allow her to make her own decisions.
Blogging,
Beautiful sunny day here. Girls enjoyed the park for sure. So did I. I have lost another pound or 2 and some of my "skinny" clothes are starting to fit. It's nice to feel better about yourself. I didn't feel like a beached whale today
.
Wife called just to see what I/we were doing while we were at the park. She said she was going to AlAnon tonight.
All in all it's been a pretty good day, in spite of the theft of the Nabi and the Android tablet this morning.
Jefe....
Realize what you are up against. You are in Dallas, basically almost Hollywood itself.
Have you ever been an Alpha male or a male with choices in that area?
You cannot complain, explain or rationalize with the wife, it's all about her feelings right now.
You still have some chances to snag her back, but it is not through love based choices unless the world deals her a seriously dirty hand...
But being Alpha she might catch feelings towards you again. It just means standing up for yourself and ensuring your needs are met.
I'm sure she thought the song by the daughters was cute...
I'd be handing out with single friends again, because they will put the right wavelength into you that she needs to see.
It's for a good cause.
Blogging
So W's aunt's funeral was yesterday. All went well considering.
Wife had her wall up at the services but called through-out the day yesterday afterwards.
Spent the day with her cousin yesterday afternoon/evening packing W's aunt's apartment. He asked a lot of questions about God and our church so I was very happy about that.
Nothing else to report.
Blogging,
Yesterday, wife came over after school to see the girls and hang out at the house for awhile. It was nice. She grabbed a photo album and started to reminisce about things. I joked about one of the photos that she used to make fun of and she quickly corrected me and said that it was nice. I invited her to dinner tonight at the house with us and she accepted. She had a bye for pool tonight so she was leaving to go to an AlAnon meeting instead. Received a handful of nice chatty texts after she left.
This morning she called and wanted to know what I was doing for the day. I was going to joke and ask: "Why, did you want to spend the day together?" but I just simply asked: "Why, what did you have in mind?" Well, basically wants to spend the day here at the house with me cleaning up around the yard, straightening up the deck and driveway, etc. Then while I pick up the kids from school, she is going to go take a shower and then come back and spend the evening together till her AlAnon meeting starts.
Daddy Long Shanks, to answer your question.
I have been an Alpha Male A$$ for most of my marriage. Going hard on her or demanding my needs were met is exactly what drove her father away in the first place.
I understand some of you may not agree with my softer approach, and that's Ok. The REAL essence of Divorce Busting is finding what works and doing more of that.
Hey Jefe
Keep grounded
Love your response back
The REAL essence of Divorce Busting is finding what works and doing more of that.
I agree, so long as you use the right yardsticks in determining what "working" is. What yardstick are YOU using, Jefe?
Starsky
Starsky, when we get into the piecing phase I think most all of your techniques come into play. Full transparency, etc. Shodan is an excellent benchmark or current work in progress for me to see what is working and what is not.
For today, what is working is what has been drawing her back towards the marriage the last 45 days and the steps she has made without me even having to ask. It's far better when one does not have to ask. I know you don't necessarily agree, but it is what I am being led to do.
Blogging:
I would chalk up today as a huge success. I am cautious and not "banking" on any of it, but for me it is progress in the right direction.
She called a few times this morning to tell me her whereabouts and to confirm the plan as the day was moving forward. She got to the house about 11:00am and we got to work right away on several house projects.
We had never finished staining the deck I built last year. We were in the process of doing it when she walked. That was one of her big to-do's today that she wanted to get done. We emptied Grandma's fridge, cleared the driveways, etc. Lots of flirting and playfulness.
While I went to pick up the girls from school, she got the dishes done for me and then ran to her mom's apartment to get her clothes put up.
When we got home she was back sorting the laundry at our house and we finished it together. We laughed, flirted and joked and then it got weird silent for a second. She said: "I know, it's difficult isn't it? You don't know what to say or do."
"...Neither do I."
We planned dinner together then cooked together. A few habits in the past, when we've cooked together, that normally would have reared their heads and caused some tension never cropped up. We both actually enjoyed each other's company. We ate together, the four of us. The girls even commented about how happy the four of us were at that very moment. I concur.
She left about 15 minutes after dinner, about 15 minutes ago, to go to her AlAnon meeting. She said she enjoyed it and enjoyed looking at the driveway as she left, said "It was like old times."
I am thankful for the day. Can't exactly hang my hat on it, but it seems like progress to me. Moving ever so cautiously forward and scared out of my mind at the same time, but God didn't put us here to be fearful, now did he?
Starsky, when we get into the piecing phase I think most all of your techniques come into play. Full transparency, etc. Shodan is an excellent benchmark or current work in progress for me to see what is working and what is not.
For today, what is working is what has been drawing her back towards the marriage the last 45 days and the steps she has made without me even having to ask. It's far better when one does not have to ask. I know you don't necessarily agree, but it is what I am being led to do.
MINDREADING.
Exactly how is it mindreading?
I am speaking specifically about certain actions she has taken and physical steps that have been made.
You're MINDREADING a whole host of intentions behind my simple question.
OK, touche.
Then pretend I'm dumb for a second (you won't have to pretend much) and speak slowly.
The question was really very straightforward. I just wanted to know what metrics -- what benchmarks -- you were using to measure "this is working." Trying to challenge you to look beyond "she is being nice to me," and use more tangible benchmarks since its damned hard when you're in the thick of it to just go by the niceness.
Got it. The niceness is about 30% of my gauge, considering it was hard for 2 months there for her to even be in the same zip code with me and not be hateful. The other 70% is based on intel showing movement in the marital direction and movement back towards God & Recovery which was completely abandoned back in late Oct.
This movement all started very soon after me calling her out on the carpet in early Dec about what I knew, who I knew, and when I knew. She scrambled pretty quickly. I think in the light of day it wasn't all a pretty little picture like it often looks in the dark of night.
Starsky, I find your comments to Jefe very interesting.
If you reread Jefe's blogs I think you would agree Jefe has become extremely empathic toward his wife. And become very adept at gauging her emotions.
In fact, if you reread some of his posts you will see how he has learned to correctly discern her emotional state before she engaged in a behavior pattern that was destructive to the marriage. And how Jefe has learned proactive techniques to respond to his wife when her emotional temperature rises.
I agree that no one should mind read but I think you would agree that a successful relationship requires the ability to recognize your partners mood and respond accordingly.
You don't you think Jefe is doing an excellent job of this?
Thank you, Hope. I am working so hard at this it is nice that not only is SHE noticing, but you and others are too.
I do have to say that I kind of understand what Starsky was saying.
More blogging:
Wife called a little over an hour ago, right after she got home from her meeting. She just wanted to let me know that she really enjoyed the day and she wanted to thank me for something I brought back for her from her aunt's apt.
Yes, she is being nice and I could tell some of it was hard for her to say. This niceness has been so hard won that I can help but smile a little. Some other things were said through-out the day that I know I'm on the right track. It's just moving along at a snail's pace, no retract that, it is moving at God's pace.
Got it. The niceness is about 30% of my gauge, considering it was hard for 2 months there for her to even be in the same zip code with me and not be hateful. The other 70% is based on intel showing movement in the marital direction and movement back towards God & Recovery which was completely abandoned back in late Oct.
This movement all started very soon after me calling her out on the carpet in early Dec about what I knew, who I knew, and when I knew. She scrambled pretty quickly. I think in the light of day it wasn't all a pretty little picture like it often looks in the dark of night.
Excellent!!
Starsky, I find your comments to Jefe very interesting.
I'm an interesting guy, what can I say.
Got it. The niceness is about 30% of my gauge, considering it was hard for 2 months there for her to even be in the same zip code with me and not be hateful. The other 70% is based on intel showing movement in the marital direction and movement back towards God & Recovery which was completely abandoned back in late Oct.
This movement all started very soon after me calling her out on the carpet in early Dec about what I knew, who I knew, and when I knew. She scrambled pretty quickly. I think in the light of day it wasn't all a pretty little picture like it often looks in the dark of night.
Sorry for the short responses earlier, Jefe, but I was on my iPhone. The main point I was trying to get across to you (and anyone following along), is to have a measuring stick for "what's working" that is not JUST "she/he is being nice to me" (although that is important -- I like your 30%), but rather is "she/he is making demonstrable moves back towards the marriage, and away from OM/OW" . . . and then to have a good intel system in place to verify it.
Too many on here simply go by "well that must have been the wrong move, because it made her mad," when in fact sometimes what makes them mad is simply laying a long-overdue boundary. Or, conversely, they think "well what I'm doing must be working, because he's being nice to me," when in fact he's stringing his poor wife along as his Plan B.
You sound like you are keeping a very level head about where you are going, and it's serving you well.
Starsky
Thank you, Starsky.
Haha, level head. Dec was probably the darkest period in my life, ever. I'm pretty level now. I think what did it for me was the fact Dec was so dark. I mean things I had dreaded and feared were happening or close to happening and I lived through it. It has given me the ability to be objective about it now.
I am choosing to not pursue anything at all. I let her come to me each and every time and so far it's working well. On the surface it looks like she is the one in control but oddly enough, it puts me in the driver's seat somewhat. I can't control her anyway. She's going to feel what she feels when she feels it. I do believe however, that she is starting to realize operating through emotion instead of through obligation and morality has been destructive in her life. At least some things she has written in the last 30 days would suggest so.
Thank you again for your kind words, Starsky. That means a lot coming from you.
Umm...clearly I've been out a while. Will catch up quick. Sounds like hopefulness over here!
(I have really good excuses, Jefe. Check out my thread.)
Best of luck in all of this!
Shakespear
Hey Jefe, I have absolutely nothing productive to say about your sich, just letting you know I was thinking about you today. I hope you are having a great weekend.
Very sweet, RPP.
That's ok, I often have nothing productive to say about my situation either.
Lame weather today, we are park hopping between light showers. But it's starting to get cold so time to hit McDonalds To play inside for a bit.
Guess I'll blogg whilst I'm here.
I have nothing productive to say.
Wife is continuing to act like she is completely confused (it's probably not an act). She often retracts the nice stuff, like this past Tues, with withdraw or weirdness. She has been withdrawn both Wed and Thur and warming back up yesterday and today. But I am starting to get more accustomed and used to the whole process so it's easier to know what to expect.
Happy weekend, everyone.
Blogging:
So, interesting text exchange this evening:
(We have spoken on the phone several times today. Nothing extraordinary, just boring daily stuff. This texting is right after her last call to me. She is worried some damage found on the van she drove yesterday that she missed will be charged back to her)
Me: So what became of the damage to the van? Did you get in trouble or did it all turn out ok?
Wife: IDK yet, I'll prob find out next week if anything comes of it.
Me: Hope it works out for the best
Wife: Me too
Me: Rest of your day go ok?
Wife: Well my life in general su¢ks besides the girls, my mom, and you
Me: Why?
Me: Wow, nice to know that I'm included in that
Wife: It's consequences of my actions in general. Nothing specific.
Wife: Yes, you're nice
Me: I'm nice, ok ty.
That was it. No clue whats going on. I know she posted on FB that life had been full of disappointments lately and she wanted prayers because she was feeling broken. So very curious I am. I am prayerful that this could be a turning point for her, but I am not giddy or happy. I truly hate that she is going to have to be "broken" before she can heal. I mean, I want her to feel remorse over her part of the situation but it is still hard to watch someone you love suffer.
I invited her to church tomorrow. Her sponsor attends our church and our Sunday School class but I haven't seen her in a few weeks but the wife said she was going to be there tomorrow. So, we'll see.
Hi Jefe, it's good to see your progress.
I get the feeling your W is conflicted with her past mistakes, i.e. the A. She's beating herself up over it.
Well my life in general su¢ks besides the girls, my mom, and you...
...It's consequences of my actions in general. Nothing specific.
My W says similar things, except for actually admitting it was the consequences of her actions. It's remorse cloaked in a veil of self-deprecation. They won't come right and say they're remorseful but they're thinking how they've dishonored themselves and their marriage.
At least that's my take on it. Maybe Sandi could chime in here, as she was a WAW who came back and obviously had these same feelings at some point along the zigzag way back.
Yeah, it's not a straight line back. It zigzags. There'll be good days and setbacks. At least that's what MWD says. And I agree completely. It's just part of the program and once you're aware that's how it goes, it's easier to take when the setbacks happen. Just have to take it in stride and know that tomorrow or the day after things will be on the upswing again.
Dang, I hope so. We came so far last week now I feel she is growing cold again and there is zero I can do about it.
I like the zig-zag analogy, it's very fitting. And very true from what I've seen.
Earlier in the day Sat, before the texts, she called while she was working, like has become her routine lately, just wanting to know what we were doing etc, then she said: "I wish I was there with y'all."
She posted later Saturday evening after the texting: "Life can be great one day and the next blow up in your face! That is why I try to cherish the moments. You never know what tomorrow may bring. I'm still grateful through the storms no doubt about it."
I have several people come up to me Sun at church commenting about her posts and asking me what was going on. Of course I have no idea still what is going on.
Blogging,
Sunday, The wife's sponsor was at church and was cordial. I was hoping the wife might show up, but no cigar.
She called right after church wanting me to meet her around the corner at the $1 movies to drop the girls off. She came by the house as soon as the movie was over and decided she wanted to do some more work around the house. She had plans to go to an AlAnon meeting and I had Superbowl plans, but I told her if she was willing to cancel her's and stay here with me I would to. So we both did.
It was not quite as sweet and last Tuesday, but there were a few moments. I'm not sure exactly it came up or the full conversation but there was mention of her possibly moving back in but basically she said something to the effect of: "I never said I didn't love you, I just don't think I can live with you because you'll want to know why I'm not touching you or something like that and take it all personal and stuff, although the idea of moving back in is appealing." or something similar. I also asked her about the texts and what was going on and she replied that I didn't want to know (She's probably right) and that I would just "run my mouth" or shove it in her face. I just let it go.
At any rate the girls were to spend the night with her on Sunday and they ended up staying until almost bedtime before leaving.
Yesterday there was a lot of communication and she stopped by for a few minutes. Of course, last night was Pool, so that always changes her dynamic a bit.
Dang, I hope so. We came so far last week now I feel she is growing cold again and there is zero I can do about it.
I like the zig-zag analogy, it's very fitting. And very true from what I've seen.
Earlier in the day Sat, before the texts, she called while she was working, like has become her routine lately, just wanting to know what we were doing etc, then she said: "I wish I was there with y'all."
She posted later Saturday evening after the texting: "Life can be great one day and the next blow up in your face! That is why I try to cherish the moments. You never know what tomorrow may bring. I'm still grateful through the storms no doubt about it."
I have several people come up to me Sun at church commenting about her posts and asking me what was going on. Of course I have no idea still what is going on.
Her fantasy life that she was working on outside of you. That's what's going on.
Blogging,
Sunday, The wife's sponsor was at church and was cordial. I was hoping the wife might show up, but no cigar.
Having her in church is not a bad idea at all, the entire premise of church is a positive family structure and some of the positivity from the sermons will seep into her mind.
She called right after church wanting me to meet her around the corner at the $1 movies to drop the girls off. She came by the house as soon as the movie was over and decided she wanted to do some more work around the house. She had plans to go to an AlAnon meeting and I had Superbowl plans, but I told her if she was willing to cancel her's and stay here with me I would to. So we both did.
It's kind of soon. Try not to pursue her.
It was not quite as sweet and last Tuesday, but there were a few moments. I'm not sure exactly it came up or the full conversation but there was mention of her possibly moving back in but basically she said something to the effect of: "I never said I didn't love you, I just don't think I can live with you because you'll want to know why I'm not touching you or something like that and take it all personal and stuff,
But you would be wondering for a good reason. Knowing she doesn't touch or whatever the way she used to because of the OM. That she has compartamentalized you outside of affections and it does not feel good.
although the idea of moving back in is appealing." or something similar. I also asked her about the texts and what was going on and she replied that I didn't want to know (She's probably right) and that I would just "run my mouth" or shove it in her face. I just let it go.
Boy she's kind of mean. She said she doesn't really care about your feelings, but you definitely aren't going to make her feel guilty by running your mouth, but you might call her on some $hit and it's "irritating" for her.
At any rate the girls were to spend the night with her on Sunday and they ended up staying until almost bedtime before leaving.
Yesterday there was a lot of communication and she stopped by for a few minutes. Of course, last night was Pool, so that always changes her dynamic a bit.
Don't persue her. Some more GAL, some more time on yourself. Keep up the social stuff outside of her. I don't think she's learned her lesson about the cheating yet.
She will have things that trigger her to come towards you and her family unit, and she will have things that trigger her in her selfish affair land.
There were people she talked to, places, things they did together, even music that can trigger her.
To really cut an affair out, they would minimize communication of anyone who supported it.
Her fantasy life that she was working on outside of you. That's what's going on.
I get that, I just meant IDK what specifically happened to start this wave of "Woe is me."
Having her in church is not a bad idea at all, the entire premise of church is a positive family structure and some of the positivity from the sermons will seep into her mind.
I agree. To catch you up a bit, she was employed by the church and we were both very active until shortly after the separation. They were pushing her to reconcile, seek counseling, or she was going to have to step down. She chose to leave. She quit attending about the same time. She has been inching back, though.
It's kind of soon. Try not to pursue her.
Not pursuit, but I was willing to cancel my plans and work beside her if she was willing to cancel hers, that's all. She has this habit of getting started on things with me and then leaving me to finish it and I was just not up for that.
But you would be wondering for a good reason. Knowing she doesn't touch or whatever the way she used to because of the OM. That she has compartamentalized you outside of affections and it does not feel good. ~ Boy she's kind of mean. She said she doesn't really care about your feelings, but you definitely aren't going to make her feel guilty by running your mouth, but you might call her on some $hit and it's "irritating" for her.
Knowing my wife, my take on it is. "I sure would love to come home and pick up where we left off with no consequences to my actions what so ever. Don't even talk to me about it and don't try and read everything I do." She, nor several people in her family do apology, penance, repentance very well at all. They would rather loose and arm that admit fault for having caused someone else pain. Say what you want about it, but this is what I'm dealing with. Not likely to change anytime soon, either.
Don't persue her. Some more GAL, some more time on yourself. Keep up the social stuff outside of her. I don't think she's learned her lesson about the cheating yet.
Not pursuing here. We're doing what we can (me and the kids). I'm becoming super creative dad. Lots of fun with little money. I live a 1/4 mile from a small urban lake and in my zip code and the adjacent one there close to 30 city and school parks/playgrounds so we are on the park tour this year.
She will have things that trigger her to come towards you and her family unit, and she will have things that trigger her in her selfish affair land.
There were people she talked to, places, things they did together, even music that can trigger her.
To really cut an affair out, they would minimize communication of anyone who supported it.
I agree on the minimization of contact of those who supported it. I think it was Sandi that said something similar about this and WAS suffering from depression who return. All the friends made during the depression should most likely go, she said. (something like that, by someone like that)
I agree with Peter. We are on a general upswing with a, sometimes violent, zig-zag motion up and down along the upward plane.
Not even close to where I want to be right now, but it's more than a lot of people here have and it sure beats where we were Oct-Nov.
And the Zig-Zag swings up.
This mornings texts:
We had a short phone conversation about the girls and the doctor, they're both home sick...again... after hanging up...
Me: Snow and freezing rain this morning, please be careful. Stay warm and dry.
W: Ok
W: Thank you for caring for the girls. Thank you for all you do for us as a family.
Me: (Not really having a clue how to answer this unexpected response and maintain some distance) Absolutely. You're welcome.
God, I thank you for this opportunity to draw closer to you. To become the man you require me to be. To learn to lead my my family the way I should have from the beginning. I regret that I had to learn in this way, but I'm thankful for the chance to learn. I recognize that if I had lead the way I was supposed to and put self aside in favor of marital unity we may not be here. Lord I pray that others may learn lessons from our pain before they find themselves where we are at.
I Jesus' name I pray, Amen.
hey Jefe
How did you feel after you separated? Was there a sense of relief there? How do your d's manage/ing? how do you split the parenting? sorry if im being nosey im just worried about how our D8 will react. I know I will miss my wife when gone but then I've been missing her for a long time anyway. I wont miss the BS that has being going on for so long.
Glad things seem to be better with your wife. slowly slowly catchy monkey
No sense of relief whatsoever. It all culminated in a matter of 18 hours from revelation to separation. I was devastated, but even at that I had no idea how much worse it was going to get.
We hid it from my daughters for the first 30 days pretty well. D5 has been pretty vocal and very sad about it and D7 has internalized it. Now, they are much better off today than they were 2 months ago but they still don't like it, it still makes them upset, and they still chide their mother about it. I stay completely out of their relationship too. The W has to be the one to answer to them for that. I refuse to minimize it or play like I agree with it. My job as their father is to ensure they treat their mother lovingly and respectfully, even while angry.
I um not up to snuff on your situation but in mine I refuse to leave the house and I pretty much refused for her to take the children from the house. There are 4 of us in this marriage and only one wants out. So the one that wants out should be the one that leaves, in my opinion.
Hi jefe
Sorry I dint know it was so sudden after bd.
My daughter doesn't know about us yet. Soon as I sort other accommodation we will have to tell her as will be 50/50 parenting. I'm dreading it.
Selfishly I am looking forward to leaving here. It doesn't feel like my house anymore which is weird because I loved living here. I feel marginally better when I'm not seeing wife like tonight. I'm not having to listen to her bs.
No doubt though it's going to be very very tough. My wife continues with her affair in secret our d8 obviously doesn't know and it certainly isn't my place to tell her. Depending on what my wife does though she may not need to. If they do go public at some point it will be so bloody obvious. Some family members have already worked it out.
I'm sorry for your situation for you and your kids. It's sh1t.
We never think it will happen to us but it does.
Oh I have to go as financially I can't afford to stay on my own
Paging Hope414.
Wow, I am so overwhelmed at the moment.
Wife just left. We had the most serious R talk we have had since she left 6 months ago. So much to just process at the moment and write about.
Kids are in the tub now, I'll blog more later.
Paging Hope414.
Wow, I am so overwhelmed at the moment.
Wife just left. We had the most serious R talk we have had since she left 6 months ago. So much to just process at the moment and write about.
Kids are in the tub now, I'll blog more later.
Do you know what supporters your wife has of her affair?
A friend of mines wife cheated and left 3 times, the third time he didn't let her come back.
It turns out she was hanging with a single promiscuous friend of hers who was motivating her to be like her. The guy did nothing wrong, was an attractive man who loved and took good care of his wife.
But over time this cancerous friend convinced her to "loosen" up and have more "fun".
In the end, she had no where to go... Husband let her come back home after the world had it's way with her... That was a 4 year period for her to get dumped enough times and back turned on her and who knows railed how many times by how many guys...
He took her back in the end and she was happy to come home, but not a pleasant prospect.
What happened?
By that I mean, what did you say, what did she say?
Your wife usually sends a text after you both have a discussion. Did she send a text?
Blogging:
So my wife has has called several times through-out the day, today. Some business, a little not. One of the later calls was to let me know she wanted to come by after work because she was going to get off early so she could come by and visit, the girls primarily but me too. So when she gets here its dinner time. She's asking what I'm making for the girls and then asks, "What are we going to eat?" Pleasantly surprised, but prepared, I offered some suggestions and we ended up cooking together and she insisted that we sit down at the table as a family and eat together.
We had a pleasant dinner. But I was growing concerned that this was not going very well because through-out dinner she was avoiding any eye contact with me.
After dinner I got the kids in the tub so we could talk for a second.
She started off by voicing concern about how our kids were going to turn out because of our messed up marriage. I shared some stats on the subject and threw out there: "...that nothing has happened in this marriage that we cant fix. As a matter of fact the majority of marriages that come back from the brink of divorce are often better and stronger than before." She said that she has been thinking a lot about coming back. She was unhappy in the marriage but she is completely miserable where she's at now.
She says she has absolutely noticed how respectfully I have been treating her lately and the other changes I've made are making her happy.
She said the last 3 years we have yoyo'ed back and forth. On again, off again. That if she were to come back, and she hasn't decided she will, that she's coming back for good. She never wants to leave again. So we better fix it and fix it right. She said one of the things that is holding her back is that so much has happened that there is no possible way it would or could ever be like it was. I said "Thank God, because what we had was obviously not working, look at us now." I told her that the old marriage was dead and gone and we would have to build a new one and I thought we needed to go back and base it on what we had before we got married and start over.
I think she is very hurt. I believe you both have deep wounds and I believe the wounds go back to the first time you split (before you were married).
I don’t know what caused the breakup but it must have been epic. Because she ran into the arms of another man and you let her.
I strongly urge that before you try to heal the new wounds of 2102, you go back and heal the old wounds.
I assume you are familiar with the 12 Step Program. If so, I suggest you take this approach with your marriage.
Specifically, make a searching and fearless inventory of yourself as a partner and (later) a husband over the course of your relationship (Step 4). I would like you to become honest about the exact nature of your wrongs as a partner (Step 5). Make direct amends to your wife about the injuries you caused her (Steps 8 & 9).
This should be a humbling exercise designed to show you understand where you let her down during the relationship. It is not a “discussion” about your marriage. It’s not about her and what you want her to do.
The purpose of your conversation is to try and heal her heart…which I believe is broken. And whatever happened to break her heart needs to be heard, acknowledged, and validated (whether you think it was valid or not).
You will probably have more than one conversation with her. Her behavior indicates there is a lot of pent up hurt. My hope is that after the first conversation she will feel safe enough to have a second conversation with you. The second conversation will lead to a third and so on.
Hope, she opened the door for me to start making amends for the things that happened in the very beginning of our relationship. She listened, she even started crying at one point.
I told her that "I didn't understand it then but, I see now that you were deeply in love with me and I completely broke your heart with my drinking and selfishness"
She quietly replied, "Pretty much."
I continued, "I didn't see it because I didn't even like myself so it was hard for me to understand or see how anyone else would love me."
She said those days were so important to her. She said "I just couldn't wait every single day to be with you, see you, start a life with you." "Then we broke up...and it broke us."
I told her that I was so in love with her then, and that I still was now. That's when she started to cry.
She said she was blown away by how much work on myself I was doing and how I was recognizing what I did wrong.
So much more happened, but this is the jist of it. She said just give her time.
Wow. The change in your relationship is truly amazing.
Have you discussed going to counseling to learn how counseling can be used as a bridge to move toward your new marriage? Again, I cannot stress the importance of enlisting a counselor. It will help you both learn how to communicate effectively.
But, that doesn't stop me from applauding you. Based on your wife's response, it appears you are doing a great job with your communication skills.
The only thing I would caution against is using negative language to describe your marriage. Using words and phrases such as, "our old marriage is dead and gone" could backfire.
(I recognize that you didn't actually say this but since this phrase was indicated in your post I'd like to use it as a teaching point.)
When you use a phrase like, "our old marriage is dead and gone" what you probably mean is, "we messed up our old marriage so let's not replicate it."
But, in reality, what you actually said was, "I'm finished with that part of my life." And, when we make statements like this we fail to take into account the spouse was a part of our lives in our "old marriage." So when we say something like, ""our old marriage is dead and gone" they could be hearing, "who you (my spouse) were during that relationship is also dead and gone."
This could bring disastrous results from uneasiness about the reconciliation, "it is dead and gone why do I want it back?" To instant defensiveness, "Hey! I wasn't THAT bad in our marriage!"
As always, good luck and you're doing great!
Jefe, I'm impressed at the turn in your sich. I'm so happy that you and W are having these conversations. Good luck to you.
Jefe, I'm impressed at the turn in your sich. I'm so happy that you and W are having these conversations. Good luck to you.
I didn't see the positive turn, but if it is a positive turn the best thing he could do is allow her to persue and never ever get caught.
DLS, you should go back to to mid Oct, early Nov and catch up on the story.
Blogging:
Been an interesting week. Wife has continued to get warmer and warmer. Lots more frequent calls and texts every day.
Tuesday she stopped by to see the girls for short visit. While she was here I was trying to walk past her to go to the kitchen when she grabbed me and hugged me. First hug I had from her since...August, I think. Then she asked if I would rub her neck for a minute, first time she's really let me touch her since October, I believe. I joked and said a full back rub was just a phone call away and she seriously replied that she was going to take me up on that very soon.
She called several times this morning. During one of them we talked for awhile then she said she just called to let me know how awesome I was and that she loved me.
Me, still not calling first unless kids/household business dictates. I send an occasional positive text first but for the most part I am sticking to the "courting" phase.
Hope414, I think you nailed it dead on early in this process that she has been starving for romance. She just called just a few minutes ago and asked me how I grew to be so sweet and how she got so lucky. Apparently she's noticing a difference in my attitude.
I know DBing is about behavior modification and not digging back into past psychological stuff but I think in our case it seems to play a role. I discussed early on that I'm a yeller and the wife is a lasher. After her aunt's funeral a few weeks ago her cousin filled me in that their Grandmother was a screamer and manipulator and that my wife's mother is a big screamer too. So, I'm seeing how my "yelling" has cut my wife deeply.
At this point, I'm still not really pursuing just courting. Not asking any R questions or asking anything really. We serious talk only when she opens the door first. I'm just sitting back working on my attitude and baggage and letting her come to her own conclusions about things and it is working far better that anything I could manage or direct.
Still moving in an upward plane, zig-zagging all the way.
Jefe,
It sounds as if you and your wife are making wonderful progress in your relationship. Congratulations!
Have you made plans for Valentines Days yet?
If not may I make a suggestion?
There is a movie called "Old Fashioned." It is playing in select theaters and opens tomorrow. It is a movie about dating and romance. It is "G" rated so you could take your wife and the girls.
This might provide a non-threatening romantic evening and reintroduce your wife back into the world of your family and your family life.
And let's be honest...young girls love romantic movies. Don't underestimate the power of little girls with their mother as they watch a romantic movie.
If the movie isn't an option I still recommend something that includes the girls. You and your wife are in an awkward place right now and including the girls bridges the awkward gap. It allows you to do something without making everyone uncomfortable. And make no mistake--your wife expects something on Valentines Day.
By the way, if you haven't done so: Tell your wife you will be acknowledging Valentines Day. Don't wait to "surprise" her.
By this I mean, she should know that you plan to acknowledge Valentines Day. She may not know how you plan to acknowledge it...but she should know you will be acknowledging it.
It's okay to surprise your wife on Valentines Day. Women love surprises. But surprising her on Valentines Day is different than making her wonder if you are going to acknowledge the Day.
So, just in case you haven't said anything yet please make sure you say something such as, "I'm looking forward to Valentines Day." or "Do you have plans on Valentines Day?' or something so she has permission to be vulnerable on Valentines Day.
And, as always, I think you are doing really great.
Jefe, I'm sorry. I gave you bad information about the movie "Old Fasioned."
I just checked the web site for the movie and it is rated PG-13.
Looks like a great movie.
Well, we had breakfast together as a family this morning. I invited her over before she went to work for a Jefe cooked breakfast feast and we have movie plans for this evening just the 2 of us.
The movie didn't pan out. Which actually was fine with me. I felt like we were moving a little fast. I need to back up just a bit and catch up.
Blogging:
For breakfast yesterday I got her a nice card, some chocolate, a beautiful red/white/black flower arrangement with antique roses, black Lilies and assorted floral stuff and a single long stemmed Fire and Ice rose laid across her plate. I also found a old Polaroid of her in a brown pant suit (I remember that suit well) that apparently her mother took. Written on the bottom of it: "2/14/06 - Interview day at Se*****" That was the company I worked at back then. That was the day she walked into my life. I had forgotten it was Valentines day. I digress, I photocopied the Polaroid and wrote a nice little thing at the bottom and put it with her card. All in all, breakfast went very well.
After breakfast she had to go to work for her usual Sat 10-12 hour shift. She called and texted all day, I mean a lot.
The basic gist of the communication was that she's ready and wants to come home but she's scared that we will go back to the old situation and that I will have no trust for her and I will express it poorly. I told her I expected full transparency and she agreed to that. She said there's nothing going on with anybody (and the intel I have supports that). I think Hope414 was right in the sense that I don't think she thought the grass was greener with anyone else. I think she was medicating inappropriately. She basically said as much, the other day. I told her the best thing we could do was stop living in all the past hurts and just start making new, good memories from this day forward. Again, I digress.
Situation is, I think she is ready to move into piecing. I have not gotten her to agree to the pastoral counseling as of yet but I think she will soon enough. We called off the movie because it just was all very fast. I went and got us some dinner from one of our favorite little neighborhood Cajun restaurants last night instead. She didn't get off work until 8 and didn't get to the house till 9. She was exhausted, mentally and physically. Me too. So we ate very fast and called it a night. We did text several times later.
And... there you have it. There's so much more to it but this is the simplified version.
Jefe, that is good news to hear - I'm so pleased for you. You sound a little unsure in your post....saying things are moving a little fast....what are you feeling concerned about?
Do you feel ready for your W to move back in yet?
I am ready for her to move back in yesterday.
I am concerned about her moving too fast and getting cold feet. She's done it before. She tends to over analyze her feelings and will waffle back and forth and I just have some fears based on past experience. But now that I type it out and read it back to myself I realize that I need to let go of all that past crap if I am going to ask her to do the same.
I'm just feeling overwhelmed and a little scared. <-- Not rational, but it's the truth.
I am ready for her to move back in yesterday.
I am concerned about her moving too fast and getting cold feet. She's done it before. She tends to over analyze her feelings and will waffle back and forth and I just have some fears based on past experience. But now that I type it out and read it back to myself I realize that I need to let go of all that past crap if I am going to ask her to do the same.
I'm just feeling overwhelmed and a little scared. <-- Not rational, but it's the truth.
If she's acting on emotion you might not want to let her back in. You see as soon as she feels comfortable again, she will be back at it.
I think it's also really important to think about your needs too in terms of healing from the infidelity. If your W wants to move back in, now is the time to ask for what you need too. Have you revisited the DR content on that in the infidelity chapter?
I'm just feeling overwhelmed and a little scared. <-- Not rational, but it's the truth.
I strongly recommend you pay attention to your feelings of fear. Fear is not always a negative emotion. Fear is also there to protect us. If it was not for fear we would recklessly walk down dark alleys in the middle of the night with wads of cash dangling out of our pockets.
The good news is that you are both moving toward the same point. The other good news is there is no deadline forcing you to reach that point one day earlier than both of you ar ready.
You won't know when she is ready. Only she will know this. But you will when know some of the signs are pointing to you will be ready.
Whoops--Just re-read my post and caught a serious proof reading error:
You will when know some of the signs are pointing to you knowing when you are ready.
Sorry about that Jefe.
Jefe, nice that the positives continue. You are doing great!
Jefe, you've been quiet this week. How's it going?
Just riding the rollercoaster.
So much positive movement last weekend now she's running the other direction again.
I've been lurking and posting on other's threads just have neglected to update my own.
Thanks for checking on me :-)
Train, I'm re-reading your large post and now I'm getting scared. I want to reconcile this so badly and we get so damn close then the pendulum swings the other direction. Then I realize after we get back under the same roof that I still have 10,000 miles of road to travel just in repairing the marriage.
I am purely venting at the moment.
I agree with this that train posted (I edited to fit my situation a bit better): Affairs are STUPID. They destroy families. They hurt. They hurt. They HURT. The pain is almost unbearable. And WHEN DOES IT FREAKING END??? Like, I want peace of mind back....I am so encumbered by feelings of rejection, feelings of abandonment and feelings of being scared half out of my mind that I'm a (single) dad at the mercy of a woman who has just up and left me and then chose to hook up with POS a-holes who thought they were worth more than my children and I are and they would just help themselves to OUR security. And my W wasn't even close to an innocent victim.
OK, vent mode: off
Train, I'm re-reading your large post and now I'm getting scared. I want to reconcile this so badly and we get so damn close then the pendulum swings the other direction. Then I realize after we get back under the same roof that I still have 10,000 miles of road to travel just in repairing the marriage.
I am purely venting at the moment.
I agree with this that train posted (I edited to fit my situation a bit better): Affairs are STUPID. They destroy families. They hurt. They hurt. They HURT. The pain is almost unbearable. And WHEN DOES IT FREAKING END??? Like, I want peace of mind back....I am so encumbered by feelings of rejection, feelings of abandonment and feelings of being scared half out of my mind that I'm a (single) dad at the mercy of a woman who has just up and left me and then chose to hook up with POS a-holes who thought they were worth more than my children and I are and they would just help themselves to OUR security. And my W wasn't even close to an innocent victim.
OK, vent mode: off
Thank you for accepting it for what it is.
Jefe, I'm sorry to read this my friend. I've been enjoying your positive interactions. What's happened to bring about this change my friend?
It's true about the hard work. It's tempting when you get a positive recommitment sign to think - Wow - we made it - but there's lots of hard work ahead.
My problem is I look at all this hard work and at piecing threads and think - ugh - do I want that. Then I look at D and think - ugh - do I want that? Where's the third GOOD option..?
Just hang on in there Jefe and remember, there will always be zig zags. Have a look at what caused them. Did your expectations maybe get too high? Adjust your approach a little, GAL a bit more, enjoy time with your girls, until things settle and then move forwards again.
There isn't any 3rd good option.
I'm still a little lost about what made the pendulum swing the other direction except maybe her own fears. So I just have to ride it out. But I do think I can adjust my approach some. That's really the only thing I have control of anyway, me. So if it's not working I need to change me a little.
I would still rather be where I am at today than where I was at in Oct-Nov.
Have a great day, everyone!
It could well be her own fears. It's pretty scary to embark on the whole rebuilding journey for both parties I think. Part of you wants to, part of you remembers the great times, part of you remembers the problems and difficulties etc...
You're right though Jefe, patience, looking after yourself - slow and steady is best.
And you're right, your sitch has come forward in leaps and bounds since just 3 months ago!
Jefe, how's your week going?
Not doing so good today. We have regressed back to the beginning of Dec.
I sent her a good morning text like I have been doing since Valentines (and have been getting great response for the most part) and over an hour later I get this:
"Obviously I decided not to come back to the house. I like our friendship best. I don't want to live with you. Sorry it's not what you want."
As Hope414 would point out, very random.
I picked up the phone and called her and asked her what was going on because that seemed so random, especially since we weren't discussing the relationship and haven't been since the 14th. I got a spew of anger in return. In fact, she has been projecting anger at me all freaking week. I told her I thought it was a little disrespectful to text me these kind of things and she did not agree and seemed put off that I would even mention such a thing. I asked what she was so angry about and I got hung up on.
Guess we are back to the LRT. Very disappointed at the moment.
Jefe, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's really tough to feel hopeful and then disappointed again. As you know, sitches go through many twists and turns and whilst your W seems angry right now, she has also shown love at other times and I'm sure all is not lost.
But, as you say - a step backwards and so time to withdraw and work on you, enjoy time with your girls and friends, family. I think you're doing great Jefe, and you have come such a long way yourself since the start of Dec - so I don't think your sitch is just like it was then, because you and your approach have changed a lot.
Good luck and hang on in there my friend.
"Obviously I decided not to come back to the house. I like our friendship best. I don't want to live with you. Sorry it's not what you want."
This is disappointing but, as Toots pointed out, not surprising.
This text begs a couple of questions which you are free to ask your wife or not ask your wife.
My first question to the sentence, "
Obviously I decided not to come back to the house" is:
Was she responding to a question when she sent this text? In other words, did you ask your wife to get her things and move home after you parted the last time you were together?
If not, why was your wife sending a text as if she had been forced to make an immediate decision?
Her text, "
Obviously I decided not to come back to the house" implies an immediacy that I don't think you have expressed in any of your posts.
So the question goes to your wife's presumption. Why did she feel the need to reject
EVER considering moving home to live with her family when the immediate offer wasn't on the table? It contradicts her next statement:
"
I like our friendship best."
Marriage is the ultimate friendship. It is designed to be the one relationship bond we will have until the day we die.
If your wife enjoys your "friendship best" then her goal
should be to live with you. Which is why her next sentence, "
I don't want to live with you" doesn't gel with the sentence "I like our friendship best."
The more logical sentence structure would be, "We just can't seem to get along. I don't want to live with you."
Her final sentence, "
Sorry it's not what you want." Is void of empathy. It is the equivalent of saying, "Bummer to be you."
Let's start with: An empathic person would not have sent this information via text.
Now, if your wife sent this text because she felt a conversation would have caused conflict--this did not relieve her of her obligation to protect your feelings. She should have begun the text with an apology and acknowledgement that the text was going to cause you distress.
Maybe the content was accurate but the way it was delivered was insensitive.
So, this brings me to a question:
What do you want to do about her behavior?
By this I mean, you do not have to acknowledge the content of her text.
But, you might want to take a strong look at how she lashes out and how you respond. We have discussed what text messaging should be used for and what text messaging should not be used for.
If you do not believe this was a topic for a text message then you should draw a boundary.
Perhaps an appropriate response might be, "This is not an appropriate topic for a text message."
Thoughts? Feelings?
I drew that boundary firmly when I called her right after the texts.
There has not been any mention of her moving home since Valentines nor have we discussed any sort of decision deadline or drop dead date.
Oddly, I received these texts this morning (I will post them exactly as I received them. I had not spoken to her since yesterday at 2:45 pm):
8:02 AM W: Did you wash their hair?
(phone was in other room on charger, I did not see texts until much later)
8:49 AM W: I'm off tomorrow so I can take the girls to dentist and school in the morning. I'll be by after I get off later today to pick them up for the night.
8:54 AM W: Call me when you can.
8:58 AM W: I might come back to the house one day to live but right now I'm not wanting to.
I did not actually speak to her until about 15 minutes later and there was no mention of this text.
I am about to walk out the door, but Hope, if you're interested in some of the phone conversation that happened after the original texting I can share some of it before I forget it maybe later tonight.
If you don't mind sharing your phone conversation I would like to know what was said.
I also think it would be helpful to get some input from others. As well as cathartic for you to discuss.
It sounds as if you've been through a bit of an emotional rollercoaster ride.
I drew that boundary firmly when I called her right after the texts.
There has not been any mention of her moving home since Valentines nor have we discussed any sort of decision deadline or drop dead date.
Oddly, I received these texts this morning (I will post them exactly as I received them. I had not spoken to her since yesterday at 2:45 pm):
8:02 AM W: Did you wash their hair?
(phone was in other room on charger, I did not see texts until much later)
8:49 AM W: I'm off tomorrow so I can take the girls to dentist and school in the morning. I'll be by after I get off later today to pick them up for the night.
8:54 AM W: Call me when you can.
8:58 AM W: I might come back to the house one day to live but right now I'm not wanting to.
I did not actually speak to her until about 15 minutes later and there was no mention of this text.
I am about to walk out the door, but Hope, if you're interested in some of the phone conversation that happened after the original texting I can share some of it before I forget it maybe later tonight.
I don't like how she tossed you a bit of "hope", but isn't going to come back until it's convenient for her.
You don't have to help her at all. And you shouldn't.
I hear ya, DLS.
It sounds as if you've been through a bit of an emotional rollercoaster ride.
Hope, I'm just so very tired and weary. Tired all the way down to my bones.
I'll blog the phone conversation for you later tonight.
I'm ok. Just very tired the last couple of weeks.
We've had more snow this week and I have had a full plate of jobs so.... I just don't have any worthwhile excuses. Just been riding the rollercoaster of the wife's emotions. Almost had to break out the spew jacket from storage.
I just don't feel like blogging at the moment, feeling very... I don't know what the emotion is exactly. I still owe you guys a phone conversation and I guess I need to catch up a tad. I haven't been journaling either and my memory the last several days is very cloudy so maybe I'll pop in later and try and make some sense of things.
I've gained 10 pounds, I think my blood sugar is messing with me (no suprise since I've been on a pshcho sugar fiend-binge lately) and I ran out of my blood pressure medication last week and keep forgetting to get it refilled. So that could be causing some of my clarity issues.
Thanks for checking in guys.
You've been through a lot. But we worry about you. Periodically checking in helps. Thank you for doing this.
If possible (and if you feel up to it) would you take a look at a new poster: cpfc05.
I think you could help each other see through another lens.
Cpfc05 could gain insight into how the left-behind spouse felt when faced with betrayal. And you could gain insight into what made him do what he did.
Because you are both men you might be more open to a frank discussion because you will be less interested in dissecting the conversation for strategies to use on your spouses.
On another note: Please take care of yourself.
No matter how hopeless you feel...life is never hopeless. And your health should always be a priority. When things get overwhelming...I want you to take a deep breath and set a long-term obtainable goal that reminds you that life is wonderful.
For example, on March 7, 2035, you plan to take your grandchild out for ice cream. Just the two of you and no one else. And your grandchild will turn to you and say, "I love you grandpa. No one else gets me like you get me."
Hope, I appreciate you more than you know.
I wish I had a better answer for my darkness at the moment but I just don't.
I'm sick that's all I can say. I'm not where I was back in Nov-Dec, I can promise that but I am just spiritually and emotionally drained right now.
I'll bounce back and some of this may just be a medication and dietary thing. I've already changed my diet back to my norm and away from the demon sugar and I'll post when I have been back on my BP meds for 72 hours. So if you guys see an attitude shift, that's probably it.
OK, earlier today, the wife brought me some regular, plain old aspirin to kill my headache and it dropped my BP some too. I feel like a different person, so its like I thought it's a dietary/BP thing.
Wife just dropped by to grab something she forgot when she picked up the girls earlier.
While she's here she asks me: "I don't understand why you even like me as mean as I am and have been to you."
I said: "I love you and I made a promise to always love you. I also know that the meanness is coming from a place of pain and hurt that you're not exactly sure how to express or deal with. It's certainly not coming from the woman I fell in love with."
W: "You know, it really is nice having someone that knows you so damn well."
There was some more pleasant conversation.
At the moment the only thing I am getting my hopes up about is that this depression I was slumping back into may only be a chemical thing, yay!
Jefe, you did a really great job of not taking the bait; giving her permission to express angry and hurt without being punished; validating her confusion; and then reinforcing your love for her.
Wow.
You should really take pride in how well you handled this.