Need help. Jefe wants to change himself. Pt 7

Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2509634#Post2509634

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

Jefe .. just caught up ... something jumped out at me.

The GAL thing ... and how you do not really want to do these things as you were "content" with the M and family. I get that ... I was the same and did not want to appear I was having a good time and confirming her decision that its better off we are apart. But ... you are just staying in limbo as she GAL's ya know?

The GAL is to get your mind off this, help build yourself up a bit .. do something different and grow, get out of your comfort zone ... reading you are still basically obsessed with your sitch ... dude you need some mental breaks from this just to get into perspective. I have caught myself on this forum reading so many sitches I realized ... woah ... I need to step away, get with God, and find center.

I recently heard a sermon ... and have been trying do this more. Spend 10 minutes outside and just sit in silence. Ask God to speak with you and guide you. I have yet to do this consistently .. but when I have been able to get into that place, I feel 100% better.

Yes, you're right. I'm going crazy. Hope414 warned me, if I didn't go down this path with long term focus and some emotional detachment it was going to drive me mad. And here we are. Thank God I have my favorite Bible study/dinner tonight with my sponsor, grand-sponsor and lots of other friends.

I like the sitting outside thing. I literally have a lake 1 mile from my house. And there's 2 more larger lakes 15-20 minutes away right next to my church's main campus. Guess I need to start putting these resources to more use.

Okay.

Just got off the phone with the wife. Cali, sounds JUST like your sitch. She was calling about the girls and money, etc. Wanted to know what I was doing tonight, why the kids are spending the night at my mom's (But I don't ever dare ask what she's doing) that kid of thing. She had a very pleasant demeanor so I played along. Then she asks, "Are you ever going to talk to me about the email?" I said, sure, what about it? She wanted to know what I thought about it and I said, "This is not at all what I want." She wanted to know if she scheduled it would I go to the free consult. I said fine. Then I asked what was the big freaking rush. She said no rush really, just wanted to know what happens next if we move forward. That so sounds like my wife. It doesn't make it any more appetizing. The rest of the conversation was nice.

I hate everything about this. I hate the way we already talk about kids being here kids being there, Holidays, Roger, ughhh. Why would anyone purposely choose this as a way of life? Okay, rant mode off. Time to jump in the shower.

Move forward with caution and make your feelings about a divorce 100% clear at the consultation.

Do not allow yourself to be trapped into agreeing to something because it sounded right or because you are being given options. You always have the option of disagreeing with the options.

What happens in these circumstances is people are put in a negotiating position: If I give you A then you give me B.

This is a great technique if you have reached an emotional state where a negotiation is what you are seeking. But if you cannot live with any negotiation please do not negotiate. It will slide you into a depression because you have no one to blame if you make a decision you don't like.

When we are forced to live with decisions others make it is maddening. But there is not regret. Never do anything you regret.

Jefe, accept the reality of where you are. Stop fighting it. She wants a D right now. She knows you don't. Why keep reminding her?

What does unconditional love mean to you?

Has she shown you that in the past?
________________________________

I don't know what "the email" was about but it seems it's a D negotiation/mediation. Marriage has 2 parts, the straight out business part and the spiritual part. Don't get the 2 crossed up.

Labug, I'm trying the best I can. I have unconditional love for my wife. We both have shown this to each other a lot in the past.

It's days like today that are very hard for me. I can relate to Maybell so much. I just want my wife to come home and let us just start over so badly. But I too know that there is nothing I can say or do.

My wife was here for a little bit today to visit the girls.
She is going to a surprise party for an old friend of hers from high school so she was dressed up. She looked very nice and I told her so. Then she will be back to get the girls to spend the night.

While she is here she is telling me she added another small tablet to our Phone plan and that it actually made our entire plan a little cheaper. She didnt tell me about it Tues when she did it but then she runs back to MIL's house to get it and bring it back so I can get it all set up. Then she's talking about how we need to get Netflix set up because it will be better than what we have been doing, etc, etc.

I'm so confused.

Wife just left from picking the girls up to spend the night. We had some good interaction. Lots of deep eye contact, pleasant conversation, etc.

She grabbed *some* of her winter clothes out of her closet and one more pair of shoes (there's still 10 pr left). Like she just grabbing only what she needs. I don't get it. If your leaving why not take it all? Her dresser is still here, mostly full, too. I am utterly confused.

I am also not very detached today so feeling a little weepy. I did not display this to her though, I maintained an excellent PMA while she was here. So yay me.

Kids gone, and will be back home all too early in the morning. I feel so alone tonight.

This woman has been my best friend for 9 years. We've had some really crappy times, but we've had some really amazing times too. We've had awesome adventures and lots of laughs. We've shared tears and we've shared immeasurable joy. I love how she guided our growth in the church and was amazed by her persistence at gaining a desired position in the children's ministry. We had so much fun before kids and even more after they came. I have absolutely enjoyed watching my wife become the mother I had envisioned in my dreams, she is even better that I dreamed. I was by her side during 2 30hr child deliveries. With both kids I think I only missed 3 OB visits and I've been there for 75% of the Pediatrician visits, too. I haven't wanted to miss a single moment of her life since I met her.

I wish I had some magic words or something I could do.

Jefe,

I think I speak for a lot of us when I say:

There is nothing I wish more for you than magic words that you could say or actions you could do to make her come home.

Jefe, I really understand your pain. But by staying so 'attached' to this outcome, you are making it all so much harder for yourself. So much harder that it may be difficult to stay the course.

Remember, the reason we detach is to make this more manageable for ourselves, and I worry for you that you spend a lot of time thinking about your W and the good times you had and how much you want her etc.

If you can accept that she is gone - at least for now. And let her go - at least for the time being, that might be best for you. Free yourself to work on the things you want to work on, and everything will work out in the longer term. Either you will reconcile, or you will part, and in all of this, you will be the man you want to be.

I know how hard it is, but I really think you need to think some more about this..putting her on the 'back burner' for a bit. She will do what she will do - work on you and your life with the girls - take the focus off 'her' and put it on 'you' and 'you and your kids.'

Thank you Toots.

What kind of father did you envision yourself to be?

I certainly didn't envision myself being a single father. I think I am a great father and so does my wife. I think I am the exact father I thought I'd be.

I'm a much worse husband than I thought, though.

I have been working my 4th step, resentment list, on my wife this weekend. I am absolutely disgusted with myself over the pettiness of some of the garbage. My wife has problems, who doesnt? But I'm starting to see that she was a whole lot better person in this marriage than I was. And it hurts to see that I've caused my best friend, someone I love so much, so much pain.

I just need to work through this.

I haven't been very active here lately, but I still follow your sitch, Jefe. I'm still rooting for you.

Thanks CC.

Nothing much to update. Wife was here this morning to drop the kids off, didn't even get out of the car. She was a little late for work, I think.

Later this morning she starts texting telling me they had too many drivers so they let her have the day off, just chit chat. I'm unbelievably glad that she calls to "check-in" but I just don't get it sometimes.

She went dark the rest of the day. It's pool night with Johnny and since she's off, I know she's there.

Holiday update:
Wife and MIL coming to my family's Thanksgiving. Wife is still under the impression that no one in my family knows she's AWOL. My mom's birthday was this past Saturday and the W asked if I got her a card, I answered yes, and I signed both of us. W said OK, good. TY. Me and the kids are going to her family's Thanksgiving (on Friday) as per tradition. Wife has to work so she wont be there this year.

Wife's birthday is Thanksgiving day this year so that's going to be awkward. I bought her a gift just in case I need it. Not planning on giving it to her unless some strange emergency pops up.

I swear, there are days I wake up and ask myself is all of this really happening or am I still asleep.

In other news, I cut the crap out of my left index finger today. Borderline needing stitches, but no doctors for this kid today.

Kids are at my mothers tonight, so just me and the empty house again for the evening.

Grandmother alive and perky today but deteriorating rapidly.

All in all, if this wasn't my life and it wasn't fairly sad, I'd say let's pop some popcorn and crack a beer because this is starting to get interesting.

Originally Posted By: Jefe

Wife's birthday is Thanksgiving day this year so that's going to be awkward. I bought her a gift just in case I need it. Not planning on giving it to her unless some strange emergency pops up.

Give her the birthday present. If for no other reason than to send a message to your daughters.

They need to know its okay to celebrate their mom's birthday.

OK, will do, Hope.

Getting close to the 9th step for my wife. Any advice on how to approach this?

Why are you home alone...?

Bad idea. Go buy some groceries, walk around Walmart, buy some new bandages for your finger, work out, or anything. You need to do something to break up the silence and loneliness. Good things are not going to happen in your mind while you are sitting alone at night on the computer. I've been there and yes, I'm partly talking to myself here.

Hi Jefe,

The 9th Step is difficult because it requires humility, introspection, empathy and good judgment. It is easy to use this step as a punishment device.

Let�s use the example of a husband confessing to his ex-wife that he had an affair with her sister. He says the reason he is confessing is because he is �making direct amends.�

But the truth is this type of information isn�t making amends because there is no value in the information being presented. The couple is divorced. Therefore this information is injurious and only causes pain, not healing.

So when approaching this step ask yourself, �What injury(ies) have I caused my wife? Can these injury(ies) be healed/resolved? If these injury(ies) can be healed/resolved what steps are required of me to heal/resolve these injury(ies)?�

Making amends to people is not only an apology. It is an acknowledgement that you have wronged them and an attempt to right the wrong when possible.

If any of the injury(ies) you want to amend are unknown to your wife then ask yourself the following: �Can this injury be healed/resolved?� �Even if this injury can be healed/resolved, what value will be added to her life if she learns about the injury?�

I'm attempting to follow the course that you recommended. It seems only prudent to heal/resolve the injuries known by my wife. I have NO DESIRE to punish my wife. I just want to begin her healing process for the damage I've caused.

I know.

This is obvious. I didn't mean to insinuate you would do this.

It was meant for others who might be reading your blog and misinterpret the goal of "making amends."

Just had a not so pleasant conversation with the wife.

I have no idea how we started talking about the R. She initiated it I should have stopped it.

Damn.

Keep learning. Don't bite next time.

I keep forgetting to believe NOTHING that she says.

I disagree.

I strongly recommend you believe everything she says. Not to believe everything she says would be dismissive.

However, take no action on anything she says. Your wife is responsible for her words...not you.

For example, if she says she wants to go to Detente Mediation--believe her. She may 100% want to do this. But until she takes action--it is only words. And words without action are nothing more than expressive thought.

Give her words attention and respect. She is giving you information about her feelings. Even though her words are painful to hear this is still a good thing. There a lot of people on this site who are living with no information at all.

I know this is difficult but don�t let her words cause you the same anxiety that her actions cause you.

She engaged in hopeless talk today.

"It cannot be fixed, it's too far gone to fix", etc...

Jefe, I've heard those words too. But that's just where her mind is at right now. Things change. People change. Maybe she's had a rough day. Maybe she experienced some personal failures today and she's in a negative frame of mind.

Do not focus on the negative. That will only cause it to grow. Focus on the positives - then they will grow. What you focus on grows.

What's the positive here? It's that she is still confiding in you, telling you her feelings and her thoughts, however dark they may be.

I get the same thing from my W. She dumped on me tonight, saying she needs time alone. That there was a time not too long ago when she was ready to file for D. That's the first time I heard that. It was all I could do to keep a poker face and acknowledge her pain and feelings without getting defensive and emotional. But by not reacting as I used to I gave her a safe place to vent.
I also told her I'm 100% committed to her and supportive of her search for her identity. And that I was 100% committed to rebuilding our marriage. When I left the RH she gave me a long hug - held me for 10-15 seconds. Twice.

So when she vents, just listen. It's not about you so don't get all bent out of shape over it. It's about her feelings which are all over the place, but she needs you to bounce these things off of. Ever notice that when you explain something to someone, hearing yourself say it, it helps you to think more clearly about it. Even to the point that you'll say something and later you think about what you said and realized it may not be accurate. I think that's what happens with the spew & apology pattern.

Regardless, don't take it personally. Just listen to her. Acknowledge that you hear her. You don't have to agree. Sometimes it's better not to say anything. Just nod your head, or if on the phone uh-huh.

Good stuff, Peter. TY.

"Do not focus on the negative. That will only cause it to grow. Focus on the positives - then they will grow. What you focus on grows.

What's the positive here? It's that she is still confiding in you, telling you her feelings and her thoughts, however dark they may be."

I need this too.

Thank you!

Jefe, I believe the attached link follows the tenants of your faith.

It is a 30-minute video from Jimmy Evans on a new series he has started. This clip is called Redeeming Love. The series is called "Our Secret Paradise." The air date for this particular clip was November 19, 2014.

Links are not allowed.

^^^Good stuff.

Originally Posted By: Jefe

I'm attempting to follow the course that you recommended. It seems only prudent to heal/resolve the injuries known by my wife. I have NO DESIRE to punish my wife. I just want to begin her healing process for the damage I've caused.

Jefe, (interesting your choice of screen name) her healing process is hers.

Do you see the control in that statement?

Amends are really about you, not her or any other person.

Can you take your focus off your W and know that she'll be OK?

Yes I do and yes, I can.

The statement was more about trying to fix the damage that I've done, but I see your point.

My screen name, BTW, was a nickname given to me in 7th grade Spanish class. But yes, I struggle with control of everything around me.

Happy Thanksgiving, Labug.

You can't fix it.

This is from my reading this morning:

The past cannot be changed, edited or erased... it can only be accepted so you can move on because we're not there anymore, we're here... and here is pretty awesome!

I had a very wonderful time with my wife today. MIL came too.

I am completely overwhelmed with a flood of different emotions.

Wife got here a little early and stayed later than she was originally going to. (A little over 3.5 hours) and she seemed to not have much interest in going to Roger's (bio-dad) this afternoon with the girls as she had planned. I completely give in on Roger and that whole deal and she's loosing interest. Whatever. I'd rather they not go anyway.

We were gathered in the living room talking and catching up waiting for the turkey to finish warming. My Grandmother's house is covered, walls, table tops, etc, with photos of me, W, and kids from the beginning to now. Before dinner I caught the wife several times looking at all of the photos and tearing up. She was trying hard to not have anyone notice but I did. She teared up many times today. Not like her.

When we were plating up, we were the last 2 left in the kitchen and she leaned back into me and very sweetly said, "Oh, I almost forgot, Happy Thanksgiving." During dinner we were sitting at a corner of the table together and every single time I looked up at her she was gazing at me and catching my eyes as often as she could. She was eye catching and gazing at me before dinner, too.

This is the 3rd or 4th time she has been at a family gathering since the S. She really seemed to be more comfortable at the house with us than she has been since she left. Without running the risk of mind reading, I think she genuinely misses everything. The family was being very kind and respectful to W and MIL too. So that helped I'm sure. I know that both of them feel more comfortable with my family than they do with their own.

We had a very strange exchange during desert. My uncle was talking to my aunt and told her that she was a good wife. My W turns to me and asks "Am I a good wife?" I paused, I answered softly, "You have been the best wife." and I left it at that.

I kept a good PMA the whole time.

The negative stuff, half way through she went and got her phone from the car and spent more time than I would like doing something but it is her birthday and I think it was just a lot of birthday wishes.

30 minutes before she left she excused herself to make a short phone call outside. I am reading nothing into it. I cant. I simply don't have enough information, evidence, or knowledge to make a case for anything. So I choose to think positive thoughts for now.

She has gained about 15-20 pounds since she left. She looks to me to be the heaviest she's been in a real long time. Just because I lost 20-30 pounds didn't mean she had to find them. Just worried for her, she was always the healthier and better eater out of the two of us.

Only other negative instance was the awkward hug she gave me when she left. As much eye contact as she was making it was a very cold hug. Oh well I'll take what I can get.

Emotionally, I wish I could take away something from this. I know that I can't though. So what it leaves me is confused and lonely now that she's gone. Is this a positive step? Was this an anomaly? Who knows.

Giving it to God at this point.

We've got dinner with part of her family tomorrow evening. W can't be there because of work but kids and I are going. And Saturday evening we are going to my step-sister's house for a feast. Wife said she would like to go but again she has to work. At least we'll be busy with family.

Good not to mind read. She knows you two have a connection and she obviously is conflicted. I think today was a healthy dose of reality for her - how good it can be. How good it has been. You did extremely well. You should be proud. Keep up the PMA.
Yeah I also lost 20 lbs while my W gain it. Odd the way that works isn't it.

Wow, thank you Peter, I though I did well too.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

A couple of other interactions worth noting. One from earlier today and the other from the day we had the horrible phone call.

When she first arrived today, the kids gave her the Birthday cards they had made. I gave her the gift that I had bought. Her eyes lit up and she got real close to me and thanked me. D7 starts chanting "kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss..." She smiled and said "No." Right after this the girls left and ran next door to my Grandmother's house. My wife looks at me and says: "They act like we should 'like' each other or something." I said, "I agree, I think we should."

Tues in the middle of the phone call, we were talking about money and I said how if I had a job like I used to have again that she could go back to part time or whatever.
She said "...but we struggled so much back then."
M: "But my God, it was so worth it. The kids benefited so much."
W: "Yes, I remember, and I wouldn't change a single thing about that for anything in the world. It was wonderful."

What does all of this mean? Beats me.

Happy Thanksgiving all.

Hi Jefe, congratulations on a nice Thanksgiving. Holidays can be so tough, and you handled yourself really well.

Your W seems like she is very different than the rest of us with walk-away wives. I say this b/c:

- she remembers your past fondly saying she "wouldn't change a single thing".

- And asking you at the meal whether she was a good wife, also seems unusual from the usual things that wives who have checked out of the marriage would say.

- Finally, the fact that your W is putting on weight seems to indicate that her focus is not on herself and making herself attractive to someone else.

I'm just observing, but I think your sitch has more reason for hope than most of us here. Have a great rest of the weekend.

Thanks, Wet. I have been dreading today all week long. I think I only got about 3 full hours of sleep last night. I spent a lot of time in prayer and quiet introspection yesterday and this morning.

God guided me today, that's all I can say.

Yes I agree with your assessment of my wife vs WAS's. However, this was just one moment in time. A rare glimpse of the woman I used to know.

Sometimes I feel like she really does want to come home but feels like she can't so she must do more to damage it thereby proving she can't come home. I could be way off base. I wish I knew how to get over that hurdle or even what the hurdle was exactly. I know I just need to continue working on me and making my attitude and changes permanent.

Jefe, I think you have done a phenomenal job.

All people need to do is read your first post to your last. They will see how you have learned not to take the bait, give your wife space, and when something will result in an unnecessary argument you have learned how to resolve the conflict instead of engage in the argument.

You have grown amazingly. I have no doubt you have become an inspiration to others.

I�m glad your Thanksgiving went so well.

There is only one thing you could have done differently. When you thought had caught her gazing at you�you should have winked. It would have been a playful move which she could have interpreted any way she wanted.

Engaging in nonverbal gestures, like winking, takes pressure off you and the other person. It gives them attention without giving them information

Hmm, what an amazing idea. Hope I have another opportunity soon to try it.

Can we drop the weight thing? Sheesh!

Read nothing more into that than some people are stress eaters, some aren't. I'll bet she looks fantastic.

About her missing everything, of course she misses [b]some[b] things about your life together. Stay in your sandbox and let her get to know the man you are now. No pressure.

Good job, Jefe, in what was an emotion charged day.

Of course she looks fantastic.

She could gain 100 more and it wouldn't change anything for me other than my concern for her health.

On the flip side, everyone at dinner commented on how good I looked. I think she was checkin me.

Hmm, Wife just texted and told me she was going to try and make it to dinner at her cousin's tonight. She is going to be late and we should eat without her, etc.

Interesting.

Wife decided she didn't want to come. I had an enjoyable time with her cousins.

Not much else to report.

Hope414-I don't see a thread of yours here. Did you have a different screen name in the past, perhaps?

Congrats on reconciling your M. What were some of the factors in your R troubles and what work did you do? (it's not too late to start a thread.)

No labug, I don't have a thread.

***Pointless rant to follow:***

Why why why must my brain try and read things into things...ugh.

I wish GoatGal's zombies would come devour my brain just so it would be silent for a few minutes.

I simply do not understand 75% of what my wife does or why these days. I guess it is not for me to understand. And yes, I know, "Why" is a futile endeavor in the first place.

***Rant mode disengaged***

I stopped notifications on my H's FB page but every now and then I check it. He's with my kids visiting his family in another state. His pictures show him grinning hugely, photobombing his sister's serious pictures, and generally acting like a college kid.

I could read into that that he's DELIGHTED to be spending Thanksgiving weekend without me, but I don't actually think that's really true. I think my kids are a constant reminder of me. Especially the boys who look a lot like me, and S6, who sleeps in my bed every night and certainly misses me. I packed their suitcases, so every day they get dressed is a reminder of me. And the way his sister treated me yesterday (kindly and excited to chat). And I know he didn't leave the room when she was talking to me because I could see his reflection in the glass behind her.

There was a poster here a few months ago named Thornton who went through six(?) weeks of complete darkness with his wife. It was excruciating for him. EVERY DAY, often 2-3 times a day, he would come here and cry about how he just wanted one little sign from her that she missed him. She posted all kinds of happy things on FB and he would cry because she looked so happy. Well, after a couple of months he finally got the green light from Wonka to send her a joke via text. Over about a month or two that one joke blossomed, very tentatively, into a reconciliation. Turns out all that cheerful stuff she was putting into the world was a huge mask. She was miserable but didn't know how to find her way back to him.

They got back together and we heard less and less from him and now I think he's just off in happy land being happy.

The lesson is: Don't try to interpret!! When they are lost they are just floundering and the messages look conflicted because THEY are conflicted. They want, they fear, they want something else. Just stay the course and be the person you want to be.

Here's one more, just because...

The difference between hope and faith. Hope is you in your boat and her in her boat, and you keep trying to hook the boats together. She keeps throwing away the rope and telling you to shove off. So you unhook, you take your own river, in faith that your rivers are both going to end up near one another when the stream comes together again.

Hope that helps. Don't let the zombies eat your brains! Throw them a cauliflower instead!!!

And Jefe, you're not done yet.

Jefe & I aren't done the way cookies aren't done?

Maybell, you really touched me today with that one. Thank you.

Originally Posted By: Maybell

Jefe & I aren't done the way cookies aren't done?

s�! que es cierto

Blogging...

So, I left my phone in the other room today because I just don't feel the need to urgently run and answer it the last few days. The wife had called around 11:20am and I missed it. She texts 15 minutes later "Are you working today?" I didn't see that one until almost a half an hour later. I reply "No, why?". I barley hit send and she was calling. I never really did understand why she called. Like she wanted to talk but didn't know what to say, then "Well, I guess I better let you go, I need to get back to work."

I mean, I'm glad she called but I'm confused all at the same time.

I did Thanksgiving #3 today with my step-sister's family etc... Big fun. I invited the W but she had to work.

Good evening all.

Stop being confused.

She may not understand why she's calling.

What do you know to be true?

What are you doing for you? (besides recovering from all that food.)

Originally Posted By: labug

What do you know to be true?

I don't know.

Quote:

What are you doing for you? (besides recovering from all that food.)

I am working my steps, sweeping my side of the street. Working at nor being critical and complaining, etc.

You don't know what you know to be true?

I'll take a stab at it:
Your W still have feelings for you.
She calls to talk with you in a friendly way.
You have lots of expectations.
You love your wife.
You love your children.
You're uncomfortable with the unknowns of life.

That's a start.

Working your program is not generally thought of as getting a life (GAL). While that's a tremendous undertaking, what is Jefe doing that makes Jefe, Jefe?

Learning a new skill or hobby?

Volunteering for a cause you believe in?

Have a great day.

"I'll take a stab at it:
Your W still have feelings for you.
She calls to talk with you in a friendly way.
You have lots of expectations.
You love your wife.
You love your children.
You're uncomfortable with the unknowns of life"

I hope she does, I think you guys can see it more clearly than I can.
Yes she often does
I'm not meaning or wanting to
Beyond a doubt and without measure
Again, absolutely
Yes. Extremely so. You'd think with the childhood I had I'd be used to it by now.

"Working your program is not generally thought of as getting a life (GAL). While that's a tremendous undertaking, what is Jefe doing that makes Jefe, Jefe?

Learning a new skill or hobby?

Volunteering for a cause you believe in? "

You are correct.

_____________________________________________________________________

Church was good. Wife did not show as is becoming the new norm.

We (the girls and I) got home after church and made lunch. While I was still making it the wife just showed up to pick them up. She has decided that Sundays will be her day to let them some spend the night and we had loosely discussed today but had no set plans. I was not angry or anything just would have been nice to know when she was coming.

I asked her if she was prepared to make their lunches for tomorrow for school, etc. She said she was not ready. So she wanted to know when she could drop them off in the morning. I asked if she would please just come by and help get them ready while I make their lunches and take them to school since she was planning too anyway.

She got very angry and said no and when I asked why: "Because I don't want to be here and hang out, that's why. Are we going to argue about it now?" I said no we're not because "I'm not going to engage in any negative communication with you. Nevermind, it was just a thought. Have them here at 6:30 and I will take it from there."

Very random with the anger. She hung out longer today waiting for them to eat lunch than she would have in the morning. But if she doesn't want to she doesn't want to.

While she was here today she was very comfortable and casual and acting very "wifey" with honey-do lists and instructions about what she thought I should be doing with my time since she was going to have the kids tonight.

I'm trying as hard as I can to not have any expectations or be confused about anything. But her rapid rise to anger really caught me off guard. I guess it's my fault for not having discussed this stuff up front. I will need to do a better job of communicating before the fact. I was proud of my ability to not take the bait and engage in the negative behavior.

Tomorrow is a new day.

When you say, " she was acting very 'wifey' with honey-do lists and instructions about what she thought I should be doing with my time since she was going to have the kids tonight."

My definition and your definition of behaviors are probably very different. Couples develop a language unique and distinct to their individual relationship.

What was she doing that made you interpret her behaviors to mean this. And why did you infer this as "wifey" and "honey-do list" behaviors for your wife?

Why were you asking if she was prepared? Set times/days for pick up and drop offs and be done with it. My "take" on the interaction is that you sounded pretty condescending and **assumed** she wasn't going to make sure the girls had lunch tomorrow. I would have blown up if someone spoke to me like that.

My advice, set a schedule and stick to the responsibilities. You may be intending to "help" but it comes off as treating her like a child.

Twin,

I have posted 2 responses to the above statement and deleted them both. I simply cannot articulate words at the moment.

I can say this, however. Your take on it is not even close to the reality of it.

But, I will ruminate on it.

Listen Jefe, I have been there. I KNOW how tempting it is to want to help. I also know the flip side and have asked my H (whenever he may become ex-H) about interactions when he was living with OW. He has said that numerous times he felt like I was treating him like he couldn't handle the kids when my only intent was to help.

Once we went to a set schedule it helped a lot. He did things that confused thehe'll out of me too. If you have time read my threads...

Just remember I have been exactly where you are. I didn't save my marriage because I decided not to continue the work, not my H. I know how you feel. I KNOW the thoughts going through your head. Reading into every interaction is going to make you crazy. You NEED to GAL!!!!!!!!!

Jefe,

I actually read the interaction completely the other way.

It sounded to me like W was going about her business, she decided she wanted this and not that, and didn't much care if you were inconvenienced. And when you asked her to help after she dropped them off (because she "wants Sundays") she said she didn't want to "hang around".

Presumably because you're there?

However, twin mom has a really good point about you asking her if she was "prepared".

It could sound like you're insinuating that she doesn't have a handle on things, when I think you were just trying to make sure the lunches were covered.

You might review that convo and see where the truth lies.

I might have phrased it differently.
"Please let me know if I will need to get their lunches ready on Monday morning."
That sounds reasonable and doesn't imply she might drop the ball.
Plus, it gives you some notice to take care of getting the children fed.

Jefe, PLAN on her dropping the ball.
YOU make sure to be prepared so you don't get caught short.
That way you don't get angry at her for letting you down while you continue to get things done.
----------------------------------------------------------------

No. It's not fair. But unfortunately, you sort of have to act like a single father right now.
She's not going to be as responsible as you'd like, and you're going to have to pick up more of the slack. It's what happens.
Most of our WAS don't get awards for "Parent of the Year" while they're in whatever fantasy-land they're living in.

So you plan on doing it.
Only because if she doesn't do it, someone has to.

And that's you, Super-Dad.

---(G)GGG

Quote:

It sounded to me like W was going about her business, she decided she wanted this and not that, and didn't much care if you were inconvenienced. And when you asked her to help after she dropped them off (because she "wants Sundays") she said she didn't want to "hang around".

Presumably because you're there?

Yes. Exactly. She has not much cared if I'm inconvenienced for the last 3 months. I don't think it has so much to do with me being here at all, she's got this thing about not wanting to be around the house. It's just one of those things I don't understand.

Quote:

It could sound like you're insinuating that she doesn't have a handle on things, when I think you were just trying to make sure the lunches were covered.

It wasn't even that bad. We both came to the realization that we were unprepared for this first time Sunday night thing. We bot agreed we will have it covered next time. The anger from her did not come until later when I asked her to stay tomorrow morning and help get them ready. Like she did the entire month of Aug. I didn't think I was asking for something that would make her angry. I know now.

Quote:

Jefe, PLAN on her dropping the ball.
YOU make sure to be prepared so you don't get caught short.
That way you don't get angry at her for letting you down while you continue to get things done.

She has let them down time after time. I am now at the point that I never tell the girls when she is going to come over or be somewhere with them until I have absolute conformation.

I usually have everything covered, I just didn't think this Sunday night thing through until this morning and by then it was too late.

Quote:

No. It's not fair. But unfortunately, you sort of have to act like a single father right now.
She's not going to be as responsible as you'd like, and you're going to have to pick up more of the slack. It's what happens.
Most of our WAS don't get awards for "Parent of the Year" while they're in whatever fantasy-land they're living in.

So you plan on doing it.
Only because if she doesn't do it, someone has to.

And that's you, Super-Dad.

What pains me the most is she's an awesome mom. She has been an absolute gem of a mother to these children. I cannot wrap my head around whats going on in her's right now. All she seems to think about at the moment is her. My wife would never have not been prepared for these girls. She has NEVER not done what she said she was going to do before the separation.

And thank you, GGG, but I hardly feel like super dad right now. I feel so incapable some days. It's all I can do some mornings to just get up out of bed and put my shoes on let alone put on a PMA face for my girls so I can tackle caring for them, trying to work, taking care of the house, the fish, the dogs, the guinea pigs, do the dishes, the laundry, homework, bathe the kids, take care of my Grandmother, keep up with everyone's cars, oh and try and GAL somewhere in there. ..I'm so overwhelmed sometimes.

I'm doing the best I know how to do. And yes, I get a little resentful when my wife is out playing like she is 23 again and yet, dammit, I love her.

And I tell you what, if it wasn't for all of you on these forums, I would have collapsed back in September. So this Thanksgiving I am grateful for God, my children and these DB forums, and my wife too.

She just texted wanting some random stuff and then called just to talk about all sorts of things.

Oil changes, replacement driver's licenses, speeding tickets, movies, the kids playing at McDonalds, and shopping malls...lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

And this is one of the reasons I love her and one more thing to be thankful for.

Starsky and Train had me limit my communication with Mr. Twin to once a day. They had me not respond to him (unless urgent) to keep my pma up. I think you might want to consider doing the same.

I think I need to look at your past stuff for sure.

Thank you, Twin. I do value your opinion.

Hope414,

I'm sure your story might be very helpful and encouraging to us. We'd love to hear how your marriage was turned around.

My story, unfortunately, is more about how NOT to save your marriage. I serve more as a red-flag for common mistakes one can make when faced with a WAS and infidelity.

--Theoden

What is your agreement with W about visitation?

Perhaps you need some boundaries?

About expectations and not wrapping your head around what your W is doing, you can stop that. When the the questioning enters your head, you say, isn't that interesting and let it go.

Every time you want to go back to that thought, do the same thing. Here's the kicker, unless your W tells you exactly what she's thinking, you won't ever know. So the only meaning her confusing actions/reactions take on is what you give them.

So give them none.

My favorite 12 step slogan Q-Tip Quit taking it personally.

Jefe, it's just me checking in. Blessings upon you and your house. This, even ALL THIS is temporary.

I'm trying to get back in the game and lend an ear to those who need it. We're all with you.

I'd like to say what you've been hearing from others in a different way, one that you'll understand. But I've got nothing original. So try this for perspective: reread your threads start to finish, pick a positive to build on (in YOU!) and one negative to eliminate. If you are even a little objective I guarantee that you will see some patterns you can use.

Originally Posted By: labug

What is your agreement with W about visitation?

Perhaps you need some boundaries?

There is no agreement, other than she wants them to spend the afternoon and night with her on Sundays. I think we may need to iron this out a little better.

About expectations and not wrapping your head around what your W is doing, you can stop that. When the the questioning enters your head, you say, isn't that interesting and let it go.

Every time you want to go back to that thought, do the same thing. Here's the kicker, unless your W tells you exactly what she's thinking, you won't ever know. So the only meaning her confusing actions/reactions take on is what you give them.

So give them none.

My favorite 12 step slogan Q-Tip Quit taking it personally.

That is a great idea.

Originally Posted By: Shakspr

Jefe, it's just me checking in. Blessings upon you and your house. This, even ALL THIS is temporary.

I'm trying to get back in the game and lend an ear to those who need it. We're all with you.

I'd like to say what you've been hearing from others in a different way, one that you'll understand. But I've got nothing original. So try this for perspective: reread your threads start to finish, pick a positive to build on (in YOU!) and one negative to eliminate. If you are even a little objective I guarantee that you will see some patterns you can use.

Thank you Shake. I'll try and start working on that tonight.

Originally Posted By: Hope414

When you say, "she was acting very 'wifey' with honey-do lists and instructions about what she thought I should be doing with my time since she was going to have the kids tonight."

My definition and your definition of behaviors are probably very different. Couples develop a language unique and distinct to their individual relationship.

What was she doing that made you interpret her behaviors to mean this. And why did you infer this as "wifey" and "honey-do list" behaviors for your wife?

Hope, IDK. It was a combination of her obvious comfort level that day and the tasks she was asking of me that made me feel like she was in "wife" mode and not WAS mode. All until I asked her to help the next morning. Then the attitude went south rapidly. The positive vibes could be just wishful thinking on my part.

Monday morning, she dropped the girls off and stuck around for about 10 minutes then left. She ended up not having to work so she went back home and went to bed for several hours. When she got up we spoke and texted through-out the afternoon about car insurance and whatnot and she stopped by the house to pick up something. She expressed a lot of her feelings to me about money and finances, even cried at one point and I just listened and reflected.

This morning we spoke several times about the insurance. I took care of some things that bothered her about it and called to let her know her new insurance card was here waiting at the house for her.

I left to go take care of a job and since she had the day off again she went to the school to eat lunch with the girls.

I came back to the house to drop off some equipment and pick up different equipment and we ended up pulling up at the same time.
She was very playful and flirty while she was here. I know this may sound like a strange thing to notice or post about, but since the separation went south in Sept, whenever she uses the bathroom here she has always shut and sometimes locked the door even. Today she left it open and continued to carry on a conversation with me.

She also had me look at some things on the car. Check the tires, mysterious noises, etc...

Just before she left she mentioned the free consultation with the mediator was scheduled for the 17th.

She called after she left to thank me for taking care of that. She said, 'You have no idea how taking care of that made me feel today.' or something to that effect.

This is why Jefe gets confused. But wait.

"Oh, isn't that interesting."

Jefe,

It might be interesting--but best to say:
"It was my pleasure". With a smile.

And say no more.

Keep it up!

---(G)GGG

Jefe, just checking in on you. You seem to be a little overwhelmed lately. How are you today?

I'm doing ok. Thank you for asking.

Sitting in the IC waiting room as I type this.

I'm playing worship tonight at Clebrate Recovery at the church, so looking forward to that.

Glad you are doing something you enjoy for yourself this evening.

Interactions with the wife are all over the board. Hot, cold. Sweet, angry. Short, talkative. No contact, too much contact.

I'm so tired, today.

Perhaps I'll blog about it after while.

My wife's aunt died yesterday. We just found out this morning. We were both fairly close to her. The kids and I got to see her this past Friday at Thanksgiving. Unfortunately the wife did not. The last time she saw her was back in Aug just before school started.

Feeling even more overwhelmed at the moment.

I mean, who on the planet, besides possibly her mother, knows how my wife is probably feeling right now more than me?

My Grandmother may not make it past Christmas.

I'm so sick of this whole thing. Right now is when we need each other, I hate doing this alone.

(((Jefe))) I'm sorry, Jefe.

I haven't dealt with the loss of a family member, but I've had my own personal health issues lately. Spent half a day in the ER last week, I know I need surgery after the New Year, I live compromised every day. It would be really great to have someone to lean on, someone to physically and emotionally lean on. We just have to be strong. Hang in there. You can do it.

Thank you Rpp. (((_))) back to you.

I'm so sorry, Jefe.

Sorry to hear this Jefe ... You are not alone, look around, and when in doubt .. look up.

Death is a very hard thing, I am sorry for your loss.

Hey Jefe,

Remember the rock that you are standing on. When the waves come crashing in, you will stand strong, even alone when your faith is in him.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. The greif there is very real. You do have some new skills to help deal with it however. I met a couple women last night at a divorce recovery group that dealt with being a LBS, then later were widowed after being remarried. They both are now bright shining lights in the world for the wounded. I think you are becoming that too. So glad you are getting to lead worship. Keep that up man.

FD.

*hug* I'm sorry to hear this horrible news. Stay strong. We're with you.

How are you doing Jefe?

Thank you everybody, FD, TM, Little, Hope, CG, for the warm wishes. I'm Okay. I was an absolute hot mess yesterday. I'm a little better today.

My Grandmother fell, *again*, yesterday. Right during the only hour I wasn't at the house. Thank God my wife happened to stop by to drop something off just as EMS was pulling up and she was able to let them in. We got her one of those medic alert deals with fall detection on Thanksgiving and they dispatched EMS.

She has finally agreed to go to rehab to get her strength back up.

To say that I'm overwhelmed would be an understatement.

DB went right out the window yesterday. Everybody in my family is in a high emotional state right now.

My wife is taking this very hard. Pamela was like a second mom to her. She lived with her all during high school. She was like the daughter that Pamela never had. She just adored our kids and me too.

MIL was snarky yesterday (This was MIL's sister) about the whole thing because they have had an issue with each other since back in the day.

I set up the memorial arrangements with my church. They kindly reached out as soon as they heard and offered to help.

I don't really have much else to say other than I'm so freaking exhausted.

BTW, Hope. I know you're not..

I'm sorry for everything you're struggling with. Wish I could help, but all I can do is send hugs.

Thank you Maybell.

Grandmother starts in-patient rehab on Monday, and I'll be taking care of her pets. So that will be wonderful for her.

On another note,

Wife did not go home at all last night. OM3 85% confirmed this morning.

I have a lot of really tough decisions to make across the board.

Hey, Jefe, let go. Your W is going to do what she's going to do, nothing you do or say or think is going to change her direction. You're trying to hard to hold on to her, or who she was. Lovingly set some boundaries for yourself, start with a visitation agreement that works for everyone and turn away. Tend to those things you can impact.

Concentrate on the immediate needs of your family right now. Do tasks that accomplish something. Take care of yourself.

Jefe, I know you are in a dark place right now. I'm so sorry your W has OM3 now. It seems your focus is primarily on your W right now, not on yourself.

For right now your W is lost. If you continue to focus on her and her ups and downs you are giving control of yourself over to her and whatever passions she is chasing now.

If you change your focus to be on yourself and your own life, you can regain control of your identity and your emotions. This will also move you towards being someone she can look up to for strength and stability out of the low place she is in. You know she won't find happiness in what she is chasing after. You can change and if you do she will notice.

What are your GAL activities right now?

I agree with UpperCu 100%. I hate to say this, but my wife could have an OM in the picture now and I would not be affected that much. That's how much detaching has helped me. The down side is that I care less about saving our marriage but I know it's a more healthy place to be. You could have your girls help with the pets. That would be a really healthy thing for them to do and good training.

Jefe, good advice from Uppercut. It has helped me just to accept that H is lost to me for now. He isn't interested in our M right now. There isn't much I can do about that for now. He has a journey to take - as does your W - and I'm not invited.

Your W may or may not turn back to your M. If she does turn back, let her find a guy who is happy with who he is, and who can function with or without her. He may want her back, but he doesn't need her back.

I'm so sorry things have taken this turn, and am thinking of you. Things will get better and happiness does lie ahead....()

Originally Posted By: Jefe

OM3 85% confirmed this morning.

What does 85% confirmed mean?

Are you still seeing the counselor? If so, have you discussed this with him?

Also, we discussed setting up a network so you could call people when life starts to become stressful and overwhelming. Life sounds pretty stressful and overwhelming. Have you been able to call people in your network to discuss things?

I'm sorry I haven't been communicating. I keep posting that I'm being monitored but these posts aren't showing up.

Jefe,

I am sorry about your grandmother. I do pray that she gets better with in-patient rehab. Not a fun thing for sure.

Originally Posted By: Jefe

Wife did not go home at all last night. OM3 85% confirmed this morning.

85% as opposed to what? What difference does that make to your course of action?

The percentage does not change anything. The confirmation of OM3 and the not coming home is about to change her financial life and her access to some other things she currently enjoys, that's all.

Thanks for the support and advice everyone.

Jefe, do not do things to "punish" or out of anger. I understand you're hurt but please when you make decisions do so because YOU are ready.

Twin you posted this on Arcola's thread: "Separate finances, make her choices a reality. As Starsky has told me you were fired from your job as a spouse."

This and removing the hotel concierge service with her laundry is all I am looking to do here.

I haven't been on and really posted and shared in a while. I've been so overwhelmed. I still am. I just wanted to blog right now and share some of my feelings and just get in on the screen so I can read it back and try to make some sense of all of it.

This last week since Thanksgiving has been an absolute blur.

Currently I'm not sure how many evenings the W spends at MIL's house and how many she spends somewhere else but I think the gap is growing. I could probably ask MIL but on the other hand, I don't think it's information I really want or can deal with at the moment.

Friday night I had my bi-weekly bible study and dinner. I stayed after the meeting with a few other's until very late. The OM3 information I discovered when I got home. I could tell from FB activity that my wife was awake so at 1:30 in the morning I tried to call her because I was going to set some boundaries with the money situation etc. I'm actually glad she never answered. So I just went to bed. I could not sleep no matter how hard I tried. I think I only got one solid hour.

I confirmed the next morning that she did not come home at all on my way to the monthly 7AM men's breakfast we have at the church. I talked to my sponsor, grand-sponsor, and one of the pastors while I was there, so I got some support. Since my mom had the girls I decided to go home and sleep for a few hours. During this time starting around 10AM the wife called 3 times in a short span, which I ignored since I was trying to sleep. She never texted, which was very strange. Next thing I know my MIL is at the house "checking" on me. I mean really strange. If she had texted I would have told her the deal. So I told MIL, I'm fine just trying to sleep and I'll talk to everyone later. The wife calls 3 more times and texts something to the effect of how worried I made her by calling in the middle of the night and now I wont answer my phone. I'm thinking if she was so worried, why'd it take nearly 9 hours for her to check? At any rate, by this point I just ignored the text. She seems overly worried about my call.

Later in the afternoon the kids came home, we played, ate dinner, went to the park. just had a good time and never heard from the W again the rest of the day.

So Sunday, while I'm in church and the W KNOWS I'm in church, she tries to call me. I ignored this call. I texted her as soon as we got in the truck and let her know that I was sorry for not answering earlier and the day prior. She immediately calls me. I can tell she's in the car driving. She wants to know why I didn't answer the day before and said she'd get the kids later. Then hung up.

She texted about the time she should have gotten them and said she'd be there at 4 because she didn't feel well and wanted to take a nap. So we made plans to go to the park. As we are about to leave, she texts back and says she'll be there at 3 because she is going to take the girls to get me a present from my birthday tomorrow. I said can you make it 3:30 please because we made plans. She answers back that she'll just come to the house and hang out till we get back. Huh? This is the same woman that threw a fit last week about hanging out.

We get back from the park just as she is pulling up. So, I have all of the girls stuff packed and was very prepared this time. She asked me what about their lunch because she didn't have anything. So I even had that covered. This was a turn key ready deal. But instead of grabbing them and leaving, she tells them to go watch TV because she wants to hang out and talk. During this we get on the subject of the funeral/memorial services for her aunt. I tell her I had just confirmed with the pastor this morning for a Jan 3rd service (The aunt's son/wife's cousin wants to wait till after Christmas and since she's being cremated I don't guess it matters.) So my wife makes a huge deal about it complaining that that is the same date as her pool play-off tournament and wants me to call her cousin and the pastor and see if we can find a different date. Really?

Later that evening she texts her cousin with this pool tourney diatribe and next thing I know he's texting me asking what in the hell my wife is thinking. I guess they exchanged a few heated texts. He called me later and we talked for almost an hour and he basically said that I was the best thing that ever happened to her. He also said right now he's done with her and he could care less if she comes to the service or not. Truly he does not even want her there. We are changing the date, but because of other conflicts he has. We both completely agreed that this is NOT the J******* that we both know and love.

It is so hard watching someone you love so much walk down a dark and destructive road knowing there is little you can do to stop them from making the choices they want to make. My heart aches.

Originally Posted By: labug

Hey, Jefe, let go. Your W is going to do what she's going to do, nothing you do or say or think is going to change her direction. You're trying to hard to hold on to her, or who she was. Lovingly set some boundaries for yourself, start with a visitation agreement that works for everyone and turn away.

Jefe, ^^^this^^^. I really think a parenting agreement would do you so much good. It would give you some structure and predictability and I think you could really use that right now.

And here's a hug, too. (((Jefe)))

Jefe, the reason why I told you to be careful not to do anything out of anger was not because the actual action doesn't need to occur but because you need to be emotionally ready to complete this without anger.

You need to be able to handle it like a business transaction and not come across as punishing to your wife. You have seen her lash out and **my** opinion is you are too emotional and it will come across as punishing and controlling which will make your wife run farther away.

Also your wife works (I don't know the breakdown but is she the "bread winner"? That changes the dynamics and also changes what advice personally I would give.

I understand where you are coming from, and you are probably correct. I am so emotionally charged right now that it is wise that I do nothing and that's the counsel I am getting from my sponsor. He is agreeing that we need to move that direction but slowly and "for a time" whatever that means exactly.

She's not the "bread winner". She is finally making some money for the first time since we got married. She keeps and spends her money as "her" money and I have no direct access to it. She continues to expect that my money is and will be spent as "our" money.

She has started making her car payment. We took on another loan to replace the transmission in the car 3 weeks after we separated that she couldn't possibly afford right now and is still expecting that I pay for all of her gas. She is wanting some "living" cash this week but she can't or won't account for $450 missing from her paycheck a little over a week ago.

It is damned apparent after yesterday that the only person in this equation she is concerned about is her. Not me, not the kids, not our direct family, not even her own family.

So, I think this needs to happen, but it needs to happen correctly. If she wants to be a free and single woman and join the penis of the month club then she needs to put her big girl panties on and be responsible for that lifestyle and the financial, physical, and emotional consequences of it. I'm just too attached to deal with it right now.

All I can say is, I'm sorry, I wish I could follow this damn program better than I am. I suck at this.

Don't be sorry, I sucked at it too..... I had a very hard time not answering texts/calls when my H was living with OW. I was pregnant, angry, sad, tired, resentful, and so many other things.

Don't worry, I am still some of those things even now. (But now I can have a drink/smoke and every now and then scream at him, LOL)

My point is you NEED to find something to do that has NOTHING to do/remind you of your wife. Church is great but you just end up praying for her. Go find an activity that you normally wouldn't do

Originally Posted By: Hope414

Originally Posted By: Jefe

OM3 85% confirmed this morning.

What does 85% confirmed mean?

Are you still seeing the counselor? If so, have you discussed this with him?

Also, we discussed setting up a network so you could call people when life starts to become stressful and overwhelming. Life sounds pretty stressful and overwhelming. Have you been able to call people in your network to discuss things?

I am still seeing the counselor. This information came about after I met with him last week. I'll see him again on Wed.

I have a support network, it's a little small but I have one. I've got too many people in my life telling me to dump her or go sleep with someone else, etc. Some of these people are my or her own family! I try to distance myself from them. I know what I want, I'm willing to wait, I'm not giving up. So I'll just sit right here on this rock, as CaliGuy would put it.

I have talked to my inner circle and they have been helping.

85% confirmed means that I did not actually witness her enter his home or him enter her, but there was evidence that they were going to meet-up later Friday night and I know she did not come home Friday night either. I also have a photo of them doing jello shots together much later (12:00 AM) Thanksgiving night after she left us.

I also have some loose evidence that she may have not been going home much at all. Take it for what its worth, which ain't much.

Man, you have a fertile imagination. Stop it!
Just because she's doing jello shots with someone doesn't mean she sleeping with him.

And are you snooping? Stop it! It does you no good.

Stop focusing on her. Especially stop focusing on her infidelity. What you focus on, grows.

Focus on yourself. Focus on being a better man. Detach from her. Don't let her moods affect yours.

Step back from your relationship with her. Way back. Make a plan to improve yourself. I know you have the 12 step program - keep working on that.

If all the time you spent worrying about what your WAW is up to was spend detached and improving yourself to be a better man, then you'd be doing better.

Like others have said, she'll do what she wants and you have no control over that so let it go. Be zen about it.

Focus on yourself. (Oh and on your kids)

"Stop focusing on her. Especially stop focusing on her infidelity. What you focus on, grows."

Crap! You are so right!

"Man, you have a fertile imagination. Stop it!
Just because she's doing jello shots with someone doesn't mean she sleeping with him.

And are you snooping? Stop it! It does you no good."

I know. It get's me deep into trouble every single time.

"If all the time you spent worrying about what your WAW is up to was spend detached and improving yourself to be a better man, then you'd be doing better.

Like others have said, she'll do what she wants and you have no control over that so let it go. Be zen about it.

Focus on yourself. (Oh and on your kids)"

I'm so ready.

New thread here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2515400&#Post2515400

I agree with, Peter.

Your controlling tendencies are showing, big time and yet you do nothing to control what you can control.

Do you know what income she has? How can you make that equitable? Do you want a S agreement? You need a visitation agreement, or rather your kids need a visitation agreement.

You're overwhelmed because you're trying to fix this and you can't, that's a given. You're like the little Dutch boy trying to plug all the holes.

Stop!

Let go and Let God. Remember that one?

You made me cry! I LOVE the little Dutch boy story, my great grandmother had that book at her house and every time I would go there she would read it to me. He was "just big enough" (I am very small) when she passed away she left this book to me. It has such special meaning :-)

Sorry to hijack!

Originally Posted By: labug

I agree with, Peter.

Your controlling tendencies are showing, big time and yet you do nothing to control what you can control.

Do you know what income she has? How can you make that equitable? Do you want a S agreement? You need a visitation agreement, or rather your kids need a visitation agreement.

You're overwhelmed because you're trying to fix this and you can't, that's a given. You're like the little Dutch boy trying to plug all the holes.

Stop!

Let go and Let God. Remember that one?