I just discovered the book and this site yesterday. Planning on buying the book today or tomorrow.
Wife walked out Tues, Aug 5th after I found a picture of another man's penis and her reply of what she would like to do with it, on an IM app I am unfamiliar with. I confronted her about it the night before and she left the next morning.
We have 2 small children, girls, that are staying with me and she seldom sees.
We had been able to speak well and were close to reconciliation until about 3-4 weeks ago when it started to unravel and she said she wanted a divorce Thur, Sept 11.
I know have been doing everything wrong and I desperately need advice.
Please help.
So she's basically abandoned her own children since August 5th? Who has she been staying with?
Find Sandi's "37 Rules" posted here in several places; those are your "cheat sheet" until you can read all of DB or DR (I recommend DR). Your wife said two weeks ago that she wanted a divorce; have you sought a legal consultation yet with your own attorney?
Starsky
My wife is staying with her mother. Abandoned is not exactly the term I would use. It's not quite that extreme. I will expain more in depth later this afternoon when I have more time.
Sandi's rules are one of the first things I found yesterday and latched on to. I have done every single one of these wrong, seems like.
No, I haven't sought legal counsel. I don't feel it's time. I think she is just talking from hurt.
MI have done every single one of these wrong, seems like.
No, I haven't sought legal counsel. I don't feel it's time. I think she is just talking from hurt.
Everyone does them wrong at first. It's good that you've found this forum early on in your situation. You can get a free initial consultation just to be prepared. It doesn't have to lead to divorce.
Hi Jefe, I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Your coach can also help you navigate conversations regarding legal counsel too. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
My wife is staying with her mother. Abandoned is not exactly the term I would use. It's not quite that extreme. I will expain more in depth later this afternoon when I have more time.
Sandi's rules are one of the first things I found yesterday and latched on to. I have done every single one of these wrong, seems like.
No, I haven't sought legal counsel. I don't feel it's time. I think she is just talking from hurt.
Jefe,
I was using the term "abandonment" in the legal sense. Depending on your state, many courts do view a parent moving out and leaving their kids in the marital home as "abandonment." It's best that you consult with a good family law attorney about this. As nw said above, just getting an initial consultation to better understand your rights and responsibilities doesn't mean you are filing for divorce or anything, and it's a very wise thing to do. Most posters find it very COMFORTING, in fact, as they learn more.
Starsky
OK, DB book in hand. They did not have the DR book.
I will contemplate the Lawyer.
Thank you, Starsky and NW
Yesterday since applying a few of the principals in the 37 rules we had a little better communication, but who knows. I've done a lot of damage since she moved out with my mouth and actions because I didn't understand what the hell I was doing. I hope it's not too late.
Brief rundown:
Wife is employed part time at our church and, until the separation, we were both very involved in the church. A couple of the pastors are not happy with her at all about the separation and she knows if she follows through with more serious action, i.e divorce, legal separation, etc., that she could lose her job. There are several other people at the church and in her circle that have tried to tell her she is heading down the wrong path and she has distanced herself from them all. I can promise it’s not pleasant staying at her mom’s house (who is a complete enabler and supports my wife no matter what) so she stays gone as much as she can every single day/night. She has found another part-time job, which was the plan after school started anyway. She is busy every single night of the week and barely has time for the kids.
Up until this past Sunday the kids had no idea mommy didn’t live here. They thought she was just working late and going to church in the evenings and coming home after they go to bed, because my wife had been coming every single morning before they woke up to get them ready and take them to school and then picking them up every day after. That has not been happening in the last 2-3 weeks. At best she takes them and picks them up 1 or 2 days. She stays out till very late Mon, Tue, Fri, and Sat nights and is simply too tired to get here at 5:45 AM. Because of this, she decided to tell them “Mommy is spending the night at grandma’s for a few days”.
Things had been working in a very positive direction until around Aug 31st. Several things happened around that time frame so I am unsure what caused it or if it was just a combination of things. There are also many other underlying factors in our marriage situation but I’m trying to not write a book here and just give as many facts as needed for me to just get to work on getting my wife back.
Focusing on the underlying factors IS what is going to even give you a chance at getting your wife back.
What has your wife said were the reasons she needed to leave?
What issues do YOU need to work on? How can you make yourself a better man?
Your wife's actions right now are just a symptom of the "underlying marriage issues" and THAT is what you need to be focusing on, NOT exactly what she is doing now.
Focusing on the underlying factors IS what is going to even give you a chance at getting your wife back.
What has your wife said were the reasons she needed to leave?
What issues do YOU need to work on? How can you make yourself a better man?
For the most part she has just said she wants time to work on herself. But that changed a little a few weeks ago.
Night before last, the same day I found "the rules" we had a deep conversation by phone. I was struggling to remember all the rules and she was baiting me into our usual dynamic. I played it cool, blew some of the rules and was scared I screwed up, but what I got from her was this; She said she is so confused because if she comes home, she's not going to be happy and if she leaves, she's not going to be happy. She said she loves me, we're great friends, she cares about me deeply, but the intimacy is missing and she doesn't know if it can be repaired.
I know I have a lot I need to work on. I own big bunches of these problems, that's one reason it hurts so much. I caused it. Now, she is responsible for her actions and how she has reacted to it. She is dealing with this totally inappropriately and she is on a dead-end road.
I am working on me, HARD! I just hope she can/will notice.
Starsky - I copied that prayer of yours I found in another thread. I love it, my friend. My knees are very sore these past weeks.
Man, it's just crazy how the lives of so many people can just change in the blink of an eye.
I wish I had the last 5 months to do all over again. I would certainly make some different choices.
To her, she is NOT dealing with it inappropriately and is NOT on a dead end road.
Keep working on you, and do it for you, not for her or your M.
I am doing the best I can.
My emotional state swings from one extreme to the other, minute to minute, sometimes. I have lost 15-20 pounds, I haven't really slept in weeks, I don't want to work, I just want to crawl under the bed and stay there for days, but I can't. I have 2 daughters to raise and be strong for. I feel like I am doing a crappy job some days.
So, it really hurts to see her out having a happy time with friends, staying out every night at the pool halls (She now has time to play in 2 separate pool leagues, yay). Generally doing everything but being a wife and mother. She told me 2 weeks ago that she was happier being away from me. Gee, with zero responsibility to anyone but herself, I wonder why?
I'm working on me as best I can. And trying to just surrender - let go and let God, but damn, it's hard some days.
Thanks for the support guys.
Crap, I just got off the phone with her, and did not follow the rules, AGAIN!
Can you detail what happened?
We started our own business last year and she is very stressed about money, like extremely stressed which is one reason why she took another job when school started.
She called asking about what jobs I had that were going to be paying, etc. I'm not maintaining the happy go lucky attitude like I should and I also started talking about the future, although she kind of started it.
She was talking about the potential loss of one client, a real pain client but he pays well when he finally pays, and asked what are we going to do? I replied: "Do you just want me to give this up and get a real job? I can. If that would make you feel more secure. I know this situation really stresses you out completely and it's just not that important to me, really."
And honestly, it's not. I have stood on principal and fought and argued way too much when I should have just shut up and honored my wife. Just don't know if this was the best time to say it.
Jefe - You sound like a good man. You are going to get though this. God promises you will. Welcome to Job land brother.
Yes, follow the rules, detach. Don't have any expectations from her. Your expectations need to now come from God. That ring on your finger is a covenant between you, her, and God. I know how bad it hurts, but how bad does it hurt our savior when we reject him? Who died in that relationship? You are going to need to get closer to God in this and not mad at him. You and God must stand while she can not. She's deceived, and the enemy is having a hey day with it. You are a broken vessel btw - look up what Gidean did with a few of those. That can be you, let your light shine and watch God work. Don't let the religious people at the church run her down. That's not gonna help. It's supposed to be a place of healing, not condemnation. It's a fine line that I hope your leadership can walk out in love.
Get out of bed, and just walk. Walk. Call a friend while walking. Listen to some praise music. Kick a ball with the girls. Say the word "Fart" out loud a few times and see if you laugh. I'm serious. Don't snoop on her, it's going to hurt you like a razor hot barb and just tick her off. You must get out of the poor me, I'm going to be a zombie now cause my wife is acting human, and in sin. It happens. Don't hurt her back, but don't enable it either. Be the leader you should have been before, and it will draw her back. Be the husband Christ made you. Show your kids what love really is. Love endures ALL. Love is patient, kind. Remember?
Another book that is GREAT is Dr. Dobson's Love Must be Tough. It's got the answers you need and follow the divorce busting technique very close.
This won't be fixed over night. Restoration is a process. The grace of God is a critical piece. Hopefully yours won't lead to divorce, which is where I'm heading unfortunately.
Hang in there!
FD
Ok, not trying to be harsh or prying but........
Don't make this all about her.
What are you doing for you? What specifically do you need to work on?
FD, God bless you. That is just what I needed and at the right time. I wish I could say that I didn't have tears running down my face right now...
I am reading the DB now, I have been looking for God in it because that's important to me. I actually have Dr. Dobson's Love Must be Tough on the way as well as Gary Chapman's Hope for the Separated: Wounded Marriages Can Be Healed. And a few others.
Our church is all about healing families and I promise they're not running her down at all. She just copped a flippant attitude with one of the pastors that rubbed him wrong, he called me later asking how long she had been acting this way because he had never seen her like that. They are ready, willing, and able with open arms to embrace us in love and help us. We have a huge amount of resources at our church for marriage repair. including the Re|egage Ministry.
Thank you again, FD.
TwinMom, It's definitely not all about her as I mentioned before. I own 90% of this problem. Happy, content, loved wives with little children don't often go looking for trouble like this. So that means I helped drive it. I've got plenty I need to work on and I am working on it.
For example, I am a 4.5 year recovered alcoholic who never worked the 12 steps. I have a sponsor now and we are going through it.
I'm reading books (Half Price Books loves me about now) and staying in the Word.
I have been given way more than my fair share of grace by God, I can easily extend it to my wife as well.
TM, Thank you for sharing your struggles, I need as much advice as I can get.
So glad to help man. I'm really not that far ahead of you and I'm honored to be able to offer a few words of encouragement to you. That hurt you feel is the result of something being wrong. It's a natural reaction to your feelings. Feelings tell you something is wrong. Tears are good. Remind God with every one that he promises to wipe them away. When you hurt, he hurts as a parent does for a child. You just have to go through it with him. You will have ups and downs. More downs than ups for a while. But - It's going to make you stronger and you will see things differently.
There are only two reasons we change:
1. It's to painful not to.
2. We gain awareness that motivates us to change.
Welcome to 1 & 2. You are there. This battle is now in your lap, but God is for you, And who can be against you? I know you may be down, but you are going to rise up and kick this thing in the ass (hope I triggered the a$$ filter)!
My best friend is from TX btw, and he's been keeping me grounded in sword and shield verses. Pull em out, stand on them. It's God's word, and that has power. But - you must also understand, God will not override the free will on anyone. It makes the power of choice the most awesome power in the universe. The choice to eat that apple, the choice to leave our husband, and sadly, even the choice to reject Christ.
Something that helps me deal with this is to separate the thoughts and emotions in my brain into two separate rooms. One side is full of fear, doubt, unbelief, and worry. The other side is me simply giving that over to God:
LEFT SIDE RIGHT SIDE
FEAR, DOUBT | <-- Just say God, this is
WORRY, ANXIETY | your problem, I cast it on
REJECTION, SADNESS | you.
--------------------------------------------------
Results: Low energy, | Peace that passes all
Unattractiveness | understanding.
No control | Joy -> Strength
Poor choices | Attractiveness
Missed Opportunity | Confidence
No forward motion | Success
So, the solution, is to cast your care on the Lord and all of sudden you are propelled to the lower right quadrant and set free of the junk on the left (that the enemy wants you stuck in). I know it's hard to do, but you have to start practicing and training your mind to do this because spinning your wheels over on the left is not going to help; however, a man operating over on the right is a husband that a wife would be an absolute fool for leaving. ;-)
Hope this helps you.
FD
Here's the chart in a little bit better formatting:
..................LEFT SIDE.................... RIGHT SIDE
---------------------------------------------------------
MENTAL.....|FEAR, DOUBT..............| <- Say God, this is
ACTIVITY:..|WORRY, ANXIETY.........|..your problem, I cast
................|REJECTION,.SADNESS..|..it to you.
----------------------------------------|-------------------
RESULTS::|Low energy,.................|Peace that passes all
...............|Unattractiveness..........|understanding.
...............|No control...................|Joy -> Strength
...............|Poor choices................|Attractiveness
...............|Missed Opportunity.......|Confidence
...............|No forward motion........|Success!
(Sorry about the formatting of the chart btw)
FD
Thanks FD!
Helping me keep my mind off the meltdown my 7 year old had tonight over why mommy won't just come home and me stewing over just where in the hell, exactly is my wife tonight.
You know, all of our kids are in family counseling. That is one thing my wife is doing right thankfully. You may want to consider that for your girls. They are going to need help processing this as well, or they are going to be stuck at this place with the pain for a long time (This is the crap that hits you later in life if not dealt with). Your insurance will probably cover it. It could be good for you also to meet with the counselor to get some parenting help.
My family counselor's advice: Just tell the kids the what. They don't need to know the why. This is good because what you want to tell them is something like: "No we can't go to the movies because mommy moved out and is bleeding daddy dry". But that's not good for their hearts (or yours), and they don't need any help being mad at one or both of you.
Go Google Jimmy Evens message on forgiveness. It will help set you free, today. I guarantee it. Get ready for some more tears and for some of the burden to be lifted. :-)
FD
My neighbor is a functioning alcoholic btw. I get a free beer almost every single night. We have great discussions before bed and he has been an amazing friend to me through this. I've told him about our identity in Christ, which is the pure version of ourselves without all the baggage life has added to us. He often wonders why is own wife has not left him yet, and told him:
1) He's meeting her love language needs (gifts & Acts of service).
2) She see's him in God's eyes (for now). He's not got me passed two beers yet but the offer stands if I need to get drunk. So far, even with all the pain, I've not been tempted to do that.
This is a silver lining. This guy could get salvation through this experience. He actually gave up alcohol for one day just to see if he could, and he did. So, we are rubbing off on each other, but I still don't like beer (yet).
Wow, I had a quiet peaceful evening last night, went to bed early, and I have the day to myself. I'm not feeling depressed, but thankful for some quiet. I need to work on my big van and do some housework cause I get my kids tomorrow (they are a zoo!). May go to a football game also. :-)
Hang in there!
FD
Thanks FunDad. Ive been looking at a bunch of the Jimmy Evans stuff this morning.
Today is my oldest daughters birthday.
I am having a dark day today. I'll get through it, it just $ucks that we have to be separated for times like this. Wife came and got the girls a little bit ago to take them to another friends BDay party and we are having a small get together this evening for my daughter with my family (Kids already had a combined party weeks ago) which is going to be tense. My wife has already asked my mom to take the kids tonight to spend the night. When I asked my wife why, she said "so we both could get a break." She's seen them 4 times for a total of about 5 hours in the last 2 weeks. Didn't know she needed a break.
I've been asking God to remove my anger towards her and this situation because it's not helping or providing anything productive to the dilemma.
I sure hope you guys are right about all this stuff because the distancing is killing me.
I know how you feel Jefe. I hope it's the right way also. I can tell you this however, I've been tender, romantic, thoughtful, and kind (yes I have issues also), but all those things did not keep her here and I was an emotional wreck! The distance is hard but it's good also because I can now function better than I have in weeks, and I hate to say it, if it does not work out between us, I'm on the path to restoration. I'd rather be restored with her that without, but either way, God must restore me and it's the same path for now with a fork in the road somewhere down the way.
Think of the distance this way: She has a chaos engine that is fed by you reminding her she is married to you (telling her I love you etc..). Every time you pour into her or the R it revs that thing back up and you get hurt --> And in turn feeds your chaos engine. So, if you stop feeding hers, guess what? Yours stops too. Interesting tid bit I cant remember where I picked it up.
I suggest some balloons for the party. Kids love those. :-)
FD
Ok, she's here and my parents just pulled up. Prayers made. Hoping for the best.
Well, everybody left about an hour ago. I'm going to go find something to do because the extreme loneliness just set in.
I followed the rules pretty damn good, I think. Hurt like hell. But I did it.
Good job. I don't know if you mentioned it or not, but do you belong to a gym? I've found that working out is better than antidepressants.
I need to catch up on the fee, but yes I do. Great idea.
Yeah it hurts. It's lonely. Find the silver linings.
Good job getting through it! Do you think your wife noticed the change?
I get my kids tomorrow and Monday, so I'm needing to get my rear in gear and plan a good time.
IDK if she noticed, I mean she had to of. I didn't follow or puppy dog, I kept my conversation to a minimum. When she spoke first or asked questions I politely, cheerfully, and softly answered. I wasn't too agreeable or unagreeable. I didn't ask, reference, or even knowledge that last night even existed let alone where she was or what she was going to be doing tonight for that matter. She gave me a hug when she left and I said have a good evening. She made a huge point of making sure she called everything us and ours and making sure my daughter knew that the gifts were from mommy AND daddy, which I found interesting. I mean it was real obvious.
So, who knows. I felt like crap after she left and prayed allot, but after going to band practice for the evening (which I haven't done since the separation) I feel a little better.
Good luck with those kids tomorrow!
Band Practice - Cool! I'm a church musician also! I play drums. That's been one of may GALs. I have not been able to play in church cause my W stopped going a few years ago and does not really like me playing. So I gave it up. Now I'm back. I don't have to play this morning, but next week I will have several gigs over the weekend.
It feels so fake doesn't it: Smiles, hugs, "us" all for appearances? There is a motto here that says "don't believe anything they say and half of what they do". I think that fits very well.
One day at a time. Find those things that lift your spirits and feel yourself be happy during those times. That's part of getting through this.
FD
I play guitar with the church and a secular band. I'm not part of the main worship team, that waiting list is long, but I am part of the Wed night worship team and we have a special ministry once a month called Man Church and I am part of that worship team as well. I very much enjoy playing with the church these days. My wife is the one that got me plugged in with the worship leaders so, there you have it.
In His Needs, Her Needs, Dr. Harley addresses this crazy situation:
Early in my career as a counselor I often felt dismayed to see people with strong religious and moral commitments becoming involved in extramarital affairs. I am a church member myself, with strong convictions about the Christian faith. How could people who claim to have the same commitments go astray? Did their faith lack power?
The more I dealt with Christian clients and other people with deep moral convictions, the more I understood the power of our basic emotional needs...
I also have a hard time understanding how my devout wife could have succumbed to the temptation to have an affair. Still further perplexing is how she can stay with her affair partner and file for divorce.
Hi nmwb123, yes my W also when we met was a straight-laced faith-filled young Catholic woman. She was the one who helped me start on my faith journey, which is my first reason for staying in my marriage now. She helped me when I was in a bad spiritual place early in our marriage. I am staying now so I can pray for her, and see where her journey leads.
It's an interesting path that we are on, isn't it? If it didn't hurt so much, it would almost be interesting.
In His Needs, Her Needs, Dr. Harley addresses this crazy situation:
Quote:
Early in my career as a counselor I often felt dismayed to see people with strong religious and moral commitments becoming involved in extramarital affairs. I am a church member myself, with strong convictions about the Christian faith. How could people who claim to have the same commitments go astray? Did their faith lack power?
The more I dealt with Christian clients and other people with deep moral convictions, the more I understood the power of our basic emotional needs...
I also have a hard time understanding how my devout wife could have succumbed to the temptation to have an affair. Still further perplexing is how she can stay with her affair partner and file for divorce.
If I ever figure it out, I will be sure to post it. I grew up in the church. My life was family and church! Yet, I had an EA. I almost threw everything away over unmet emotional needs and a fantasy.
Christians are human beings and as long as we have the old human nature, we will have weaknesses. We all have sinned. Your sin may not be mine, and my sin may not be yours, but we all have the ability.
Being a Christian means there is hope. Don't underestimate a WAW.......but neither underestimate the power of prayer. I truly believed prayer had a big part in me finding my way back. Plus, it was no "accident" that I stumbled upon a forum one night called Divorce Busting! How many WAW's come here and end up being the one who gets the tools to turn the M around? Yet, it happened! Want to know something funny? I first went to a "Christian" chat board and they were nuts! I told them off and left. Next stop.....was this place. Been here ever since. Not b/c my M wasn't saved.......but b/c it
was!
Don't give up.
Thank you, Sandi. I needed to hear that about now. I've been praying my knees off and have no plans of stopping anytime soon.
Jefe, I'll pray for you, too. I'm on my knees daily.
sandi2, please add Jefe, Wet and I to your prayer list.
And FunDad, too if you don't mind.
Yes, thank you for your prayers. Especially for tomorrow as our attorneys will most likely be negotiating the temporary order details. Luckily I know they get along with each other. :-)
I've felt a real peace this weekend. I had a blast with the kids and they are spending the night too. :-)
Hi Jefe, I just caught up with what is going on with your sitch.
I have a couple of questions for you. First, how are you doing with not initiating contact with your W? With your 2 daughters, you must feel like you want to let her know about what's happening with the kids. Do you let her make the first call or text?
Also, I see Jefe that you have dealt with with alcoholism in the past. How are you doing with this?
I like the idea of a prayer circle. I will pray for you, Fundad, and nmwb123 (do you have a name?) and perhaps Sandi. Do you have any specific prayers that you would like us to pray for you? God's blessing and strength and wisdom for us all.
Nmwb stands for "need my wife back"
You can call me CC if that's easier.
I have a couple of questions for you. First, how are you doing with not initiating contact with your W? With your 2 daughters, you must feel like you want to let her know about what's happening with the kids. Do you let her make the first call or text?
I haven't had any problem at all not contacting her. for the last several weeks. I just found the "rules" last Wed and that has helped bolster the no contact status. The girls miss her terribly and don't understand why she "left us", neither do I for that matter. I'm happy to give her her space in this arena. I mean, I feel horrible for the girls but this is my wife's choice, not ours.
Now today has been unusual. She has reached out several times today by text trying to engage me in conversation and I have just given very short, not rude, but simple replies. She has also made several Facebook posts that seem like fishing attempts to get me to engage, which I haven't. One of which almost seemed like a direct dare to get me to drive by and check on her. I didn't. Part of me sure wanted to, though.
Also, I see Jefe that you have dealt with with alcoholism in the past. How are you doing with this?
4.25 years sober. I haven't worked my steps and I think this is a huge issue for me so I currently have a sponsor (I did this since the separation) and we're working through them.
My wife is in alanon and has been participating about the same length of time. Interesting to note; she obtained a new sponsor about 18 months ago. Last year the sponsor had her working on the steps and while she was doing her inventory she wrote me a note saying she realized we got married for the wrong reasons and wanted a divorce. This lasted only a few weeks, she never moved out and it just seemed out of left field. Well, this time around we were getting close to reconciling when BAM! I have been working on my steps and I think I might want a divorce. Now I thought this sponsor has been working against us/me, but since the separation, the sponsor has started attending our church, joined our Sunday school class and now shows up at church more than my wife does. When I see her she tells me how much she loves me and seems supportive of me. I think my wife has been distancing herself from her sponsor in addition to the friends she stopped talking to that were trying to be supportive of the marriage.
Prayer circle = Insanely Awesome Idea
We should modify Starsky's prayer that he posted to include each other and just use that as a basis, IMHO.
Thanks, Wet!
You know, come to think of it, I'm a little nervous now. One of her texts, just an hour ago was: Im going to come by after work and visit with the girls for a little while before pool etc"
I hope she is not coming by to drop another bomb.
Guys, do a search for "There's no peace for prodigals by Stephanie" on Google. I think it will lift your spirits.
Thanks so much for the article. What a great resource. I don't think my wife is involved in an PA affair, but my suspicions are growing that she is having an EA as I noticed someone showed up on her FB page that she had one with several years ago. Regardless, the article is great and I can't imagine the guilt my poor WAW is having to deal with over all of this. We will all need to strength to stand and on the word of God is a pretty good source. :-)
Nmwb stands for "need my wife back"
You can call me CC if that's easier.
Time for a new username then. It's never healthy to NEED another person. Our spouse should be the frosting on our already purpose-filled cake of a life, not the cake itself.
"I WANT my wife back, but I don't NEED her -- not the marriage we had before, for sure. I WANT to build a new marriage with her, that is better than before, but I realize now that if that doesn't happen, I will be okay" is what you're shooting for.
Of course, it takes awhile to get there.
Starsky
Time for a new username then. It's never healthy to NEED another person. Our spouse should be the frosting on our already purpose-filled cake of a life, not the cake itself.
"I WANT my wife back, but I don't NEED her -- not the marriage we had before, for sure. I WANT to build a new marriage with her, that is better than before, but I realize now that if that doesn't happen, I will be okay" is what you're shooting for.
Of course, it takes awhile to get there.
Starsky
Thanks, Starsky. Yes, that username was what I came up with shortly after she left, and I was a wreck. I'm past that now. I no longer "need" her in the sense that I can't live without her. A lot has changed in the past four months.
I'm still a wreck. But I'm climbing up and out of the chasm slowly.
That's a great read, WMWB. Thanks.
Hi everyone,
Ouch, Jefe, I do not like seeing a post like yours. Anything you would like to share?
FunDad, you are in my prayers on your meeting today.
May I ask a protocal question for the circle? Do we want to start a new post for the circle? Or is it alright to keep it on Jefe's? I know that Starsky's prayer was placed on nmwb/wmwb/CC's post. It would be nice to have this consolidated somewhere. Thanks.
I think we could start a new thread. Alternatively, it would be cool if the moderators could start a forum just for prayer requests...
Alternatively, it would be cool if the moderators could start a forum just for prayer requests...
For years, they've always had one. Didn't get a ton of traffic, but they had one. Looks like it was deleted in the recent board purging/updating. Too bad.
Starsky
I think the prayer is more productive when it's specific to to certain individuals that have a common bond or relationship. I mean, in reality every single person on this board need our daily prayers. But we can become prayer warriors to those people with whom we build bonds with.
that could be through a new thread for us or left right here. Matters not to me. Just my 2 cents worth.
What's to share, Wet? My wife left in a fit of self, I hate that my kids are becoming emotional wrecks (me too), I hate that she doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. But I keep reminding myself I'm powerless. I'm getting better, then I seem to backslide.
The wife came over today and I was trying to post some questions before she showed up but the site was down. I'm trying to feed these kids, so I'll share about that later.
And Wet, I answered your questions a page or two back.
If you think about it, prayer -- and the Christian walk itself -- is all ABOUT powerlessness. It's about completely LETTING GO, and giving the outcome to God.
It's the faith expression of "dropping the rope," in a lot of ways!
Starsky
I know your right, Starsky. It's just been a particularly rough day and I'm acting quippy and self absorbed. Sorry.
The wife has, again today like yesterday, reached out to contact me in several ways. Even called twice, which is unusual because I was watching the phone records when she first left and trust me, my wife will text up a storm but calls no one. So I guess me pulling back has affected her a little.
She came by today to "see the kids" but she barley said hi to them, went to the closet grabbed some more of her clothes, asked me if I was working my steps, and was gone in less than 30 minutes. Irritating. I tried to maintain the rules but not sure how well I did.
Hey there, no watching the phone records. That will drive you nuts, no reason to go there. No expectations from her either.
I suggest that instead you make a list of fun simple things to do with your girls, and then post it so I can use it too!
Last weekend, we got the fire-pit going and roasted some smores. That was great. I also fixed a bike, and that puts me in super-hero status. :-)
FD
No, I know. I quit watching the phone records the day I found the rules.
I just got off the phone with the wife and I'm afraid I blew it. I'll communicate more later when I get home.
Well, where to start.
I no that I should not have any expectations, and yet here I am.
My wife calls today, 15 minutes after she was supposed to pick the girls up from school, and asks me where I'm at and if there is any possible way I could go get the girls. I'm thinking she's at work but she tells me she left work early to go to a job interview that 46 miles away from the school and she's just now leaving. I lost my cool. I didn't yell or scream or anything like that but she did say, "Here you go griping and complaining about every little thing I do. I cant do anything right with you. I'm just trying to get a better job so we can pay our debts." blah, blah, blah. I hate this not being able to call BS when I see it. So I made her go get them anyway. An hour late and she had to pay a fee.
My second screw up, I called her back and apologized for being rude and complaining. SMH*
Of course this is Pool League night number 2 for the week and she rushes the kids home dumps them off at her mom's place where she is staying, Showers, and leaves.
Grrr.
I just have no clue what I'm doing here at all.
You made her take responsibility. That's a great way to call her on her B.S. Next time don't apologize for it.
Stay focused on the kids. :-)
FD
You made her take responsibility. That's a great way to call her on her B.S. Next time don't apologize for it.
Stay focused on the kids. :-)
Thanks FD, I'm trying. No apologies next time. I've heard Starsky say it several times in the last week. I cannot be frozen by fear of her leaving or she'll smell it a mile away.
"Lord, What do you want me learn today? What do you want me to learn through this? How do I glorify you today Lord? What do you want me to do, who can I help? Amen."
It's ok to apologize for being rude. Just dont apologize for making her stand on her own 2 feet.
I hate this not being able to call BS when I see it. So I made her go get them anyway. An hour late and she had to pay a fee.
That sounds like you are punishing her.
Let go and detach a little bit. You cant change her, the only thing you can change is you.
You're right. I was about to say that I didn't mean to punish her but I guess I did.
I know I can't change her it just hurts me to sit and watch her do all of these things and self destruct all while she's got all 10 fingers pointing at me. Seems to be a common theme around here with WAS's.
I've been trying to detach just not doing a very good job of it.
Thanks, bdub.
It's ok to apologize for being rude. Just dont apologize for making her stand on her own 2 feet.
Exactly right.
Just had another conversation with the wife. She is looking for some extra money to pay off a debt she need to take care of so she can get a job that she thinks she wants.
I responded, "So let me get this straight, you want me to sell something or borrow money to give to you for a job?" and she says yes. So we can have the extra money we need to pay of our debts and catch up on our bills and just have some regular income coming in. I ask her after the bills and debts are caught up, then what? She says she cant tell the future. I said I'm not asking you to tell the future I'm asking you to let me know if you have plans after that. She says no, no plans. I answer, then I don't think its a good idea to get further into debt given our current situation.
The waffling back and forth is mind bending. Believe none of what you hear and 50% of what you see, right?
Well Jefe, let me chime in here a bit. It's only been under 2 months since she left. You're really in the beginning stages here. Here's my two cents:
Don't worry about what your W is doing. You cannot control her. Don't even try. You can barely control yourself, and that's really the only control you have. So take control of yourself.
Figure out a plan for self improvement. If the 12 step program is something you think may help, don't hesitate.
Focus on your girls. Be the best father you can be. Give them love and lots of your time.
Focus on your business, work smarter, not harder. Make more money in less time and spend the extra time GAL and with your girls.
You could tell your girls that "mommy is needing some time out and that doesn't mean she loves you any less. She just needs some time alone and she's spending it with her mommy right now" or something like that. Don't demonize her to your kids.
Become the husband only a fool would leave. How do you do that? Take a hard look at what your role was in the degradation of your M. That may take some time. It took me almost 4 months to figure it out.
Take Sandi's rules and edit them to put them in the first person and replace W with her name, so that when you read it it is directly focused on you. I found that really helped me.
Your W will spew all sorts of garbage. You'll need a thick spew jacket when she does so you don't bark back at her. For that you'll need detachment. That's a task in itself.
I know the pain in the first couple of months is unbearable. It will get better. Here's something to say to yourself: "The pain will go away. I deserved to be loved. I will be ok."
Strap yourself in. It's a real rollercoaster ride. You'll have good days and bad days. I would recommend reading DR. More suited to your sitch. Have patience. You'll need lots of that. But you're doing the honorable thing - trying to save your marriage. It's just not going to happen in a month. For me it's been almost 10 months and I've only gone from a 1 to maybe a 4 or 5. Still a long way to go.
Keep your chin up. Smile and whistle a happy tune. And be strong for you kids. They're looking at you right now to help them through this. Have some fun with them.
Thank you Peter.
You could tell your girls that "mommy is needing some time out and that doesn't mean she loves you any less. She just needs some time alone and she's spending it with her mommy right now" or something like that. Don't demonize her to your kids.
Absolutely not. I love her and try to protect her honor wherever possible. This is one area where we are doing right. We only build each other up in their eyes.
Become the husband only a fool would leave. How do you do that? Take a hard look at what your role was in the degradation of your M. That may take some time. It took me almost 4 months to figure it out.
I've got a laundry list of my own crap started and adding to it every day. I can clearly see where I've been a total a$$.
Take Sandi's rules and edit them to put them in the first person and replace W with her name, so that when you read it it is directly focused on you. I found that really helped me.
That's a stupendous idea! Doing that next.
I know the pain in the first couple of months is unbearable. It will get better. Here's something to say to yourself: "The pain will go away. I deserved to be loved. I will be ok."
Strap yourself in. It's a real rollercoaster ride. You'll have good days and bad days. I would recommend reading DR. More suited to your sitch. Have patience. You'll need lots of that. But you're doing the honorable thing - trying to save your marriage. It's just not going to happen in a month. For me it's been almost 10 months and I've only gone from a 1 to maybe a 4 or 5. Still a long way to go.
Keep your chin up. Smile and whistle a happy tune. And be strong for you kids. They're looking at you right now to help them through this. Have some fun with them.
Thank you Peter.
I am so glad I found this place.
Your W will spew all sorts of garbage. You'll need a thick spew jacket when she does so you don't bark back at her. For that you'll need detachment. That's a task in itself.
BTW, Peter, This is the biggest laugh I've gotten in weeks. Except maybe for Devaste saying:
"I listened to her concerns, reiterated them, and then told her WTF did you expect was going to happen?"
OK, interesting note that just happened.
The wife came home with the kids today after picking them up from school. She brought dinner for all of us and we actually sat down to eat, prayer and everything. I've been doing a much better job of being detached the last couple of days (she sure has been calling me a lot lately since I don't call or text anymore) anyway, after we got done eating she wanted to take some pictures of the kids and realized she left her phone in the car. So she grabs mine and takes some pics. Then she is trying to send them to herself and is all looking through my phone and stuff. I got a chuckle out of this and asked her to go get her phone and let me see it if we're all into phone digging today. She didn't answer. Too funny. She can dig away because I have absolutely nothing to hide. She's NEVER looked through my phone. I find it humorous that she wants to now. Guess this detachment thing is bugging her.
That is very interesting. Keep it up.
Jefe, that behavior will increase - her looking for things you are doing wrong, trying to catch you or blame you for bad behavior. This is so she can justify her own actions. That's why you need to be squeaky clean and improving yourself. This is not just to avoid being blamed, but also for your own good, because no matter what the eventual outcome of you journey is, you will be a better person and make someone a great husband, whether it's to your current wife or someone else in the future.
My W did that a lot. She's still doing it. When I go away on business out of town, she comes home and goes through my computer looking for things to pin on me. She's found a couple of things and I've been put down for bad behavior. I'm not perfect by any means, but my aim is true. I just want to rescue our marriage and I think that's a noble pursuit.
...That's why you need to be squeaky clean and improving yourself. | ...I just want to rescue our marriage and I think that's a noble pursuit.
I'm definately sweeping my side of the street. It's not squeaky clean yet, but damn close. I'm no saint, but I am cleaning my life for me and my family.
It is a noble pursuit. God
WILL reward the diligent and faithful.
Wife just changed her relationship status on FB from married to me to nothing.
I can't freaking breathe.
I know that I am supposed to detach and not expect anything but that hurt deep.
...That's why you need to be squeaky clean and improving yourself. | ...I just want to rescue our marriage and I think that's a noble pursuit.
I'm definately sweeping my side of the street. It's not squeaky clean yet, but damn close. I'm no saint, but I am cleaning my life for me and my family.
It is a noble pursuit. God
WILL reward the diligent and faithful.
Starsky
Wife just changed her relationship status on FB from married to me to nothing.
I can't freaking breathe.
I know that I am supposed to detach and not expect anything but that hurt deep.
She's already been projecting herself out there as a single woman, no? What is this other than the junior-high-school'ish rubber stamp on what she's already been doing?
This is the adult version of a girl writing "Mrs. Jefe HEART o.m." on her middle-school notebook cover, Jefe. Breathe deep . . . you got this.
Starsky
Slow down jefe.
You already knew she was a WAW. She has already mentioned D and you are already separated. This is NOTHING new for you. You are just seeing it in a different format. Un follow her and stop checking up on her.
I decided I wanted to stay on FB to follow some long lost friends. I had to adjust settings and filters so that I am not getting notifications and cannot see much of what W is doing.
The other options are to ditch FB all together, block her, or unfriend her.
dont forget to adjust the setting on the messenger too. I developed a habit of checking messenger to see if she was online. Poisonous because there is no real intel involved. It just leads to worrying, guesses and speculation.
She's already been projecting herself out there as a single woman, no? What is this other than the junior-high-school'ish rubber stamp on what she's already been doing?
Yes, she took her wedding band off 2 weeks after she left. And yet this was still a blow. I stupidly was getting my expectations up because there had been some increased communication in a more positive format.
You already knew she was a WAW. She has already mentioned D and you are already separated. This is NOTHING new for you. You are just seeing it in a different format. Un follow her and stop checking up on her. ~ dont forget to adjust the setting on the messenger too. I developed a habit of checking messenger to see if she was online. Poisonous because there is no real intel involved. It just leads to worrying, guesses and speculation.
I noticed it on my profile. When I went from married to her to just married. I definitely need to change the messenger because, yes, that is driving me bananas.
She'll be here soon with the kids and I need to recompose myself. I already dumbly called her and asked about the status change.
You got this Jefe. I can tell you have already calmed down some. Good for you. If the positive communication continues dont forget "no expectations"
I already dumbly called her and asked about the status change.
Oh jeezus . . .
You got this Jefe. I can tell you have already calmed down some. Good for you. If the positive communication continues dont forget "no expectations"
Thanks bdub.
I already dumbly called her and asked about the status change.
Oh jeezus . . .
We had just hung up with each other when I noticed it. I reacted without thinking and I knew this was coming since Aug 5th and it just throttled me.
OK, back to tearing my broke a$$ work truck apart. I just need to breathe.
Forget about the FB status and the call. It's history now. Learn from it and move on. Work on that truck.
Detach, GAL start doing some 180s.
You have to start living for you. It's hard, we all get that.
You know, it's bad enough when something unexpected comes along and messes everything up, but it's far worse when perceived troubles come along that I create in my own head. Thanks for talking me down last night I don't know what came over me. Dumb. I need all of this to happen so we can get closer to a solution, anyway.
Starsky, you are correct this is very childish. Several years ago we had some sort of fight or disagreement and she got mad and "un-friended" me and changed the R status, (Dang, I just used an acronym) and I remember thinking and telling her at the time how high school-ish and immature that seemed. Should not have been surprised at all.
I was talking to my sponsor last night after our bible study meeting and he pointed out a few things that, in the middle of my fog, I missed. He said: "Keep doing whatever it is your doing because you've been pulling back and she obviously noticed. The FB thing, while stupid, was an attempt to get your attention and get you to react." Which I did both. He also reminded me of the Prodigal Son and that the father had given the son his freedom to do as he chose and then the father did not follow or chase after, instead he stayed home and got back to daily life. All things I intellectually know just needed someone else to say it.
He told me 2 weeks ago to Facebook fast. You guys have been telling me since I got here to get away or seriously limit FB. Wonder when I'm going to listen and do it. Hmm think I just identified another problem I cause in my marriage.
Sounds like a wise sponsor.
It is precisely that reactivity that I was "oh jeezus"ing about. It wasn't some sort of huge DB mistake, it was just a huge sign to your wife of "SEE? YOU CAN GET A RISE OUT OF ME!!"
Sounds like a wise sponsor.
It is precisely that reactivity that I was "oh jeezus"ing about. It wasn't some sort of huge DB mistake, it was just a huge sign to your wife of "SEE? YOU CAN GET A RISE OUT OF ME!!"
Yup, she did just that. Not going to let that happen again.
Letting go of the rope.
Wife is over here today to do laundry and pick up girls for a bit. Having a hard time detaching. Feeling agitated over some intel that I discovered last night but not wanting to "use" the information yet. I need to just put on a smile and and detach, detach, detach.
Hey Jefe - Feeling for you man. I've found that when my WAW is around and acting civil that in a strange way I feel comforted by her presence. Then I drive home and cry my eyeballs out because of this nightmare we have created. I've had a rough week with all of this and felt like a zombie to much of the time. Being in the middle of the legal aspects really drags your heart down.
I think the others are correct that she's trying to tweak you by updating her status. Sounds like she wants attention from you or someone else. Don't bite. Don't use the intel you have either cause I guarantee she will just justify and blame it on you anyway. Who needs that? Find something else to replace what you normally do on FB. I think so much of this process is just about filling the empty places.
"I've found that when my WAW is around and acting civil that in a strange way I feel comforted by her presence. Then I drive home and cry my eyeballs out because of this nightmare we have created."
I'm so sorry for your struggles this week, FD. All I can say is that I relate. I just had my a** handed to me this weekend with non-marital stuff. The enemy is working hard on my family. I will be doing some thoughtful and deliberate prayer time this evening, and you my friend most certainly will be included.
"Sounds like she wants attention from you or someone else. Don't bite. Don't use the intel you have either cause I guarantee she will just justify and blame it on you anyway."
It's the someone else that goads me, but I'll live. No joke on the intel. It will only serve to widen the chasm between us and reset the clock. My tongue is bleeding from biting it.
"Find something else to replace what you normally do on FB. I think so much of this process is just about filling the empty places."
I think you're right. There are just some empty space that can't be filled. Tired of crying, I am. And out of nowhere to, sometimes.
Interestingly,, our series in church that started last Sunday and will go for the next couple is about the Prodigal Son. Today's message hit home, hard. The series just prior , right after we separated, was In The Furnace. God's at work here for sure. Hard to be patient sometimes. I want it in my time, He's going to do it in His.
When my W moved out, there was a series airing on AFR about Job. It was a real encouragement. Then at my church a series on broken vessels was started, which was also great. It's so good to see God get us what we need, when we need it. That's why hope and faith are so important as is resisting the temptation to let our mind race with FUDD.
God is great like that. Always moving in our lives, even when we don't see it.
FUDD? That's a new one on me.
FUDD = Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, & Disbelief
Well, I must be getting better at detaching.
Wife just left here after dropping the girls off. I found it a bit humorous while she was here the amount of anger and dissatisfaction she displayed towards me all while I just smiled and made nice. Nothing I did was good enough or pleased her. Oh well. She couldn't leave fast enough and sped off rather abruptly and nothing negative was said on my part. The last thing she said was "Well, I've got to go, it's pool night and stuff" To which I pleasantly said, that's right, it sure is. As I thought to myself how agitated she sounded about it. Too bad. It's supposed to be her hobby she enjoys. 1foot2 mentioned in a post recently about how the slightest bit of "control" that you once had as a spouse will set them off quickly. Yes it will, glad I steered clear today. Lost and lots of communication from her by phone and text the last several days as I continue to remain as dim as possible. I still get on my FB sometimes but I don't post a single thing and I stay away from her.
Feeling sad but empowered.
"FUDD = Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, & Disbelief"
Ah, Nice. I feel dumb now.
Someone used to say around here, "Don't jump into the pit with them."
That seems about right.
Starsky
Yes, Starsky, it sure does.
I was talking to my sponsor several weeks ago and I was lamenting the fact that communication with my wife always seemed like a tug-of-war. So he says, then let go of the rope.
Duh.
In my defense, that was before I found this place, lol.
I did the Facebook thing too. I was so disappointed. My H took off all our pictures and his relationship status wasn't married anymore. Plus, he started adding girls on fb. I still check it once in a while. He has never been into Facebook updates or posting pictures. He had a phase when he kept posting so much,made me think he was just lonely and had nothing much going on.he still exchanges msg with a girl in a foreign country. But, somehow the Facebook deal, I expected it. It hurt for a while but I think I'm getting better at being happy with the things I can control. He deleted so many pics off his phone but kept the pic of when I was in labor. He told me a week ago he thinks about the time he almost lost me. He also has a passport size pic of me and a little penguin bandaid I gave him when we were dating, in his wallet. So, those things give me hope.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe there are little things that you have missed that she is keeping for memory
Jefe, good for you, detaching while she's spewing. Good thick spew jacket you're wearing! Consider that a positive step in the right direction. It's all about baby steps. One inch at a time. It's a noble pursuit to save your marriage and be proud of that. But at the same time be humbled by the fact that you're human and you will backslide from time to time. When you do, don't panic. Just brush yourself off pick yourself up and carry on DBing.
You did well, keeping a PMA in the face of your ranting W. If you keep it up she may see that you're desirable. It's a fickle dance. But learn from my mistakes. Don't pursue or pressure her to reconcile. Let the universe unfold as it will. There's a greater power at work here. We must all remain patient and trust in the process.
Peter, you crack me up. Yup. spew jack was donned just in time.
Trust me, zero pursuing going on here. I have maintained radio silence ever since the retarded FB phone call I made. Seems to be working a little bit, but who knows. Not doing much mind reading this week either.
Hope224, I sure hope so. She has never been one to place any value on things but you never know what she keeps down deep inside.
Dang it. She caught me off guard this morning before I could get my spew jacket fully buttoned up. She came to get the girls and take them to school and the negativity was just flowing. Nothing I did was good enough, and I let that get to me this morning.
No pursuing, no validation seeking, just a little quippy in return.
Time to go pray.
Maybe next time be ready with just a little (or maybe text her today): "Can we at least agree to keep things positive around the girls? I'm sure we both want their day to start out on an up-note. I felt attacked when you got here, and I don't like my own contribution to the snippiness this morning either. You and I can discuss all this later, if need be."
Again this morning she had some snippy comments and jabs. This time I calmly said, could you please watch the negative comments, I feel attacked the last several days and I'm sure the girls would appreciate it if we were more positive around them. She made another snippy comment in response but later in the day when I saw her she completely apologized and admitted it was rude and she'd work on it. That was nice. Being calm and soft payed off.
Yesterday afternoon, a long time friend of mine was over helping me with my truck when she came home with the kids. He is partially aware of the situation and made some unbiased observations about the way we interacted with each other and what was said. I didn't much like what he had to say actually, because I thought I was doing pretty good. Apparently not. He said "you're both doing it but you gotta suck it up and be the bigger person, man." Ouch. Well I made some huge changes in my communication with her today and I can tell she immediately noticed. Gotta work on my mouth for sure. Been into the same habits for so long gonna take some extra work on my part.
Glad you got some good advice. I applaud you for being able to admit and work on it, too.
Again this morning she had some snippy comments and jabs. This time I calmly said, could you please watch the negative comments, I feel attacked the last several days and I'm sure the girls would appreciate it if we were more positive around them. She made another snippy comment in response but later in the day when I saw her she completely apologized and admitted it was rude and she'd work on it. That was nice. Being calm and soft payed off.
GOOD JOB!!!
Just remember, a firm boundary doesn't have to come attached to stern language. There's a reason we call it "loving detachment." It needs to be BOTH detached, AND loving.
Starsky
I needed to hear that exact message this morning.
Thank you Starsky.
OK, so the last day or 2 has been way different with the wife calling and texting often almost like she is checking in. I don't think we talked this much daily when things were going well in our marriage. Today she did a lot of future talk. "We should do this", "this is going to be better for us down the road", that sort of thing. Not sure what to make of it and trying to remember to believe nothing she says and 50% of what I see. Trying hard to not get my hopes up about anything and just stick with the program.
I was reading back over the 37 rules and funny how the first week I blew all of them. Today, the first 10-15 are like no problem and the others are starting to become a little more natural.
I still am on an emotional roller coaster, sometimes daily, but it's getting better.
I am learning a ton from reading he other situations on here. So glad I found this place and have nothing but deep respect for the "vets" that have been here for many years. Thank you, guys for all you do!
That's a great update! I just found out that a friend of mine at work may have got a bomb drop recently. Can't want to share what I've learned here with him.
Happy Friday Everyone!