http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2473181#Post2473181above is the link to my old thread, which is locked
this vaca is really hard. It is tough to be a good dad and show my kids a good time when my W and I are in this situation. My MIL has told me to forget about the A because our problems existed before that. I agree with the latter part of this statement but I know that the A is an obstacle to our working on our M. As noted before, my W has not admitted to the A, says they are friends and that she can text and talk to whomever I want and that my desire for her to end this relationship with the OM is just another example of my controlling behavior and why she does not want to be married to me.
At one point yesterday when we were talking (hard not to when we spend the day at the beach together) she said her feelings towards me are her feelings and while she wants them to change, they have not. I said that if that is the case and this seems truly hopeless to her, then we should call it like it is and just file for the D and tell the kids. She was very taken aback by this idea and said that we need time. So I guess that is a good thing because it seems in her heart she does not want the D but the A is blocking her ability to really work on our M.
Sho,
Have you done any reading about "gaslighting?"
No I have not but will look it up now
Yeah I can see how this looks like gaslighting. I am being played and told that I am controlling and a lunatic because I broke into wife's phone and want her to go NC with the OM. Yeah I am the crazy one.
My w has tried being nice the past two days, talking about our family in the future tense, etc. she even commented that she wants her engagement ring to be a family heirloom. But I know this is all a part of the act of keeping both the OM and me in play.
She saw her mom yesterday, with whom I have shared everything. Apparently my MIL was very upset yesterday, which my W attributed to my FIL's passing three months ago. I told my W that my MIL is upset about our R, to which my W replied that that is why she is so mad that I shared anything with her. My W wants all of this to be kept between us. I told her that she is not to blame me for this.
My W and my MIL are going for a walk today. I know my MIL will say something to my W about our R. My W will say that I am controlling, that I cannot tell her with whom she can text and that she has been unhappy for years so anything to do with the I OM is not related. I believe my MIL is so upset because yesterday I texted my MIL that I "was done" and could not deal with the lies, cheating and secrets anymore. I know that my comments worry my MIL because she knows that I am the only one trying to keep the M together. She keeps telling me to ignore the A and just focus on myself. While valid feedback, she does not realize how hurt I am by this A and that the OM is an obstacle to any reconciliation.
Maybe my MIL will talk some sense into my W but I doubt it. As I have said before if you saw us together you would not expect anything. She says nice things to me and about me to others. But I know this is a part of her game through which she can keep me close. But I am pulling away more and more. I still am being nice so my kids don't sense anything and I keep my W seeing a safe environment if she comes back but I am being way more terse in our convos, not starting any of them,and somewhat ignoring her when we are together with the kids by focusing on them.
Lots of love to everyone
I told my wife, in this EXACT same situation, that "I have too much love and respect for your mom to lie to her about your affair."
And
"I've decided that I'm no longer willing to lie to cover up your affair."
And how much longer after that did she end the A? Two months?
The other funny thing is that her cousin's H separated from her for four months About three years ago. I told my W that story and that apparently he did not have an A. My W asked how I knew and I told her that her mom told me. My W replied that it was wrong for people to talk about this so openly and that she hopes that her mom is not telling people about our R. I wonder if I can use this toy advantage and that the threat of this getting our will get her to end the A OR will it just drive her deeper into the A.
I also know that she is very pi$$ed that I changes after she asked for the D and after she started an A.
The rest of our vaca was pretty fun. My wife actually started being super nice to me and made an effort to be near me. We had a great time with the kids. At one point, we held hands (first time since before the BD) and she was complimenting me. So I started thinking that maybe our talk the other night had some impact and she was struggling with what to do. we got back on Tuesday and had a good night just talking on Tuesday. However, by late Wednesday, she started acting super aloof and was really curt with me. Basically, the way she was right after she asked for the D. Then, she mentioned that her boss was asking about the move to NYC. My W started asking me again about my feelings about NYC and whether or not we should move. This was a change from 2-3 weeks ago when she said no way to NYC. My initial reaction to her change in her mannerisms and the resurged interest in NYC is that she was having even more contact with the OM. Perhaps they even saw each other (we are back in Boston after vaca but my W is off this week while I am working...maybe he came up to Boston from NYC)? Anyway, last night I asked my W about her sudden change in behavior (I know, bad move) and she went back to her initial comments when she asked for the D...I will never change, she cannot change her feelings towards me, she does not hate me but feels nothing for me. Then later last night, I came downstairs and she had hidden her phone under a blanket (I was looking for something and found it under the blanket by her side). The kids were in bed but she was downstairs texting with him. I looked at her and said "you win. You will get what you want. You want to end this M, I will not stop you. in fact, I want you out of the house. I cannot continue to live in a M full of lies, cheating and deceit." I then went back upstairs to bed. She went out a few minutes later (did not take her car). Not sure if she went for a walk or met up with the OM. My W slept downstairs on the couch but I am not sure when she came back.
This morning, we have not spoken except when we walked the kids to school and I said that I was going back and she said "oh, you are going home, I was going to get a coffee" but she said it in a way that expressed that she somewhat wanted me to go wither. I did not. I went home. Now, I am working from home and she is with a friend at the mall. My gut is she is with him and not with her friend.
I am sick of the lies. I am sick of this situation. She is destroying our family. This seems so hopeless right now. But every time I mentioned that we should tell the kids and make this D public, she balks. I wonder if that is my only option...file for a D to show her that I am that serious? But of course, this cannot be a bluff, I realize that. Or do I try Plan B and just go somewhat NC with her...follow Sandi's rules to a T?
my guess is the 2x4 answer is to follow the LRT technique and Sandi's rules and only file for a D if that really is what I want.
I'm very sorry, Shodan. I've been there, and yeah -- the deceit rips your guts out even more than the infidelity does, believe it or not. Until someone goes thru this they cannot even begin to understand how much the DECEIT and the DISRESPECT eats at a man.
My advice would be for you to go back and read the "tougher/stronger" advice you got at the beginning of your threads. You chose to go the "kinder/gentler," continue-to-show-her-the-new-and-improved-Shodan route, and she's rewarded your efforts by continuing her deceit and gaslighting you and the family to boot.
It's high time for after-the-LRT. It may or may not work with her, but the foot-rubbing route certainly hasn't.
You're a good man, Sho -- you deserve more than this. I pray you can turn this around. I do think she still loves you, down at some level, but she's pretty fueled up with resentment and entitlement still.
Starsky
I just read through my previous threads. My self diagnosis is (1) I became overly excited by all of the positive changes and therefore was not patient and started to put pressure on my W and (2) I went too far into the Plan A territory (partially b/c I saw the positive changes). I think our convo last night set me back a bit.
So what will I do...stay friendly and hospitable. Do not pursue. Continue making her coffee in the mornings but do not look for any conversations with her. If she wants to talk, listen but end the convos quickly. She needs to see that she is losing me without me coming across as angry or mean.
I re-read them as well today. I think you're still missing a LOT of the firmer advice that was given back there, and following the stuff that seems less fearful to you.
You DO know that there's a "Plan B" that is supposed to follow the "Plan A", right?
Have you read Michele's After-the-Last-Resort technique?
Starsky
Yes which says to go dark and 100% limit contact to only things about the kids.
I am advocating to be too nice, even though it is a 180 from where I have been.
Here is where I am struggling...I am really bad at being not nice. I am really good at doing the Plan A stuff, but with Plan B, I think I come across as angry and a d*ck.
I sense that she is back deep in the fog of the A. She was coming out of it for a bit of time (she was being way too nice to me, held my hand, etc. to be faking it). I think I was not patient enough, she got scared and then let the OM back into her life. So she is acting just like she did when she asked for the D.
I just need to back off and not pursue. Really limit contact with her (although, kind of tough when you live in the same house and have kids). And just see where life takes me.
I sense that she is back deep in the fog of the A. She was coming out of it for a bit of time (she was being way too nice to me, held my hand, etc. to be faking it). I think I was not patient enough, she got scared and then let the OM back into her life. So she is acting just like she did when she asked for the D.
MINDREADING.
My W and I barely spoke yesterday. Maybe two sentences. I spoke with the kids when she was in the same room but when the kids were not in the room, I ignored her. When we did speak I know I came across a little angry. It is very hard for me not to seem angry. I need to work on this.
Like everyone in my situation, this feels like I am pushing her away. I know that I need to stay strong. I know that we will never be able to work on our M as long as she is having an A. I just need to figure out a way to detach and be "dark" with her without seeming angry. I am struggling because this method is not showing her a safe place to come back to. It is showing her a husband who is frankly pi&&sed off. So I know that I need to seem happier just not toward her, correct?
Correct. You want to convey a "Hey, this wasn't what I wanted, but it's your life and I realize now I'll be okay" attitude.
So "light and breezy" in general but not friendly towards her.
Not that this matters but my W has read roughly 60% of "his need, her needs". It is on her bed side table. I gave it to her two weeks ago (I know, not a good move but I found the book very helpful and informative). Unfortunately until she ends the A she cannot implement any of the practices from the book because it will have no effect.
On the GAL front I am going over to a friend's house later tonight and right now I am with my daughter at a soccer tournament.
It sounds like she is doing what most wayward women do, and that is keeping both of you as Option A and Option B (in various orders at different times), and then comparing her FEELINGS about each. Not a healthy way for a grown married woman to make such an important life decision.
And therefore your advice is the same...detach, GAL and make her realize that she is losing me and that I am ok with whatever decision she makes.
Another bit of advice that was given on my thread was to just NOT pursue. For me, thinking about not pursuing is an easier mindset than going dark because it does not make me think about being a d$ck and rather just not pursuing.
I don't think simply "not pursuing" is a strong enough response given your current situation. There are ways to pull off a Plan B without going into dikk mode.
The other place where I am struggling is I am just depressed. I miss my family. I am trying to be happy but all I want to do is cry.
I know. It does sukk, no doubt.
Just re-reading (and archiving) all of my old posts today, and I had PLENTY of days just like you're having right now.
Most difficult thing I've ever had to do on my life, and I wouldn't wish it on ANYBODY.
Hang in there.
Starsky
I think why i get so depressed is that in many ways, we have had a great marriage. Of course, she has said things to me that have stung and made me realize it was not as great as I thought. But it was not horrible and in fact it was better than good (at least I saw it that way). We have had a lot of fun together over the years. And this past vacation was super fun. I mean, laughing, joking and plain old good old fashion family fun. So when we left the vaca on Tuesday, I was on cloud nine. But then Wednesday morning things seemed weird, she was on her phone more, and she started being very curt to me. By Thursday, I knew something had changed. And here we are on Saturday, only speaking for 30 seconds to say I would take my D10 to soccer.
she is pulling away just as much as I am pulling away from her. Except she is happy because she has the OM and I am miserable.
But I know if our M has any chance of survival, I need to back off and go dark. I need to be patient.
However, I feel for my kids. They keep asking to "go do X as a family" and I just tend to hedge my answers. They want their family together and right now have no idea about our switch. But to go dark and show her that I am pulling away, I cannot do things as a family, which su%ks for them.
Your situation, like mine, has been a roller coaster of emotions. I am also depressed and full of jealousy, desperately wanting things to be the way they were a year ago. Sho, I think you should be very proud of the fact that you just pulled off a great family vacation! I know how much strength it takes to act as if when all you want to do is scream and cry.
Your kids are your family and your not the one blowing things up. It hurts but know that you are a good father. My D13 asked me why this was happening to our family and said she didn't want us to split up. That shredded my heart but all I could do was tell her "neither do I".
OG...thanks for the kind words. Trying to be PMA.
I have been pretty quiet with my wife since Thursday night when I went "dark". I can tell that she has noticed but she tends to just do the same to me. We really have not spoken. I went to yoga this morning and did not ask if she was going. Turned out she was going and was in the same class. We did not talk and I left after the class and did not speak with her. Ironically, a super hot woman set up next to me (she could have gone any where in the class) and I sense my wife (who was a row behind me) noticed this.
Later, I was practicing guitar on the front steps and she asked if I needed something from the store (where she was going). I said no thank you and went back to the guitar. Then, I was reading on the couch and she came into the living room to read as well, sitting on another chair. She could have sat upstairs or outside. We did not talk of course but I thought it was interesting that she sat near/with me. It seems to me that she wants to lure me back as she has done in the past so she can keep her two options open. Later, I took the kids to Dairy Queen but decided to ask if she wanted to go. I don't want to be a total jerk. I said "I am sure the kids will want you to come." She said she was doing stuff but would be ready shortly. I said we were leaving then and just left. When I got back, she looked pretty miffed that I did not wait for her, saying "I went upstairs to brush my teeth and when I came outside you were gone." Of course, I need her to understand that I am NOT happy about her A but I also do not want to get into a "battle" with her to see who can be a better parent without the other involved.
I will continue to be "dark", detach and GAL. I decided today that I deserve better. I deserve a W who loves me, who wants to be with me and who appreciates me for who I am. I am a good father, person, friend and husband and do not deserve to be treated this way. I respect myself and my kids to much. As my friend told me, sometimes bad things happen to good people. But what defines us is not what happens to us, but how we deal with it. I intend to emerge stronger and better. While I want my W and my family back, I cannot control her, her actions and her feelings. I cannot control who she texts. I only can control myself. So I have decided to go back to martial arts two times per week. I have good friends there and will benefit from the GAL and getting out of the house and away from her. This also will show her that I am moving forward with my life.
Lots of love to everyone. Remember, we all deserve better than this. No matter what we did during the M, we did not force our spouses to have an A.
The other thing to add...I have taken off my ring. Not sure this was the right move, but right now I just don't feel like wearing it. My W wears her rings some days and then not others. She has not worn her rings in four days. Maybe I am being juvenile, but if she is not going to wear her rings, why should I?
Is this stupid and just going to exasperate the situation?
This morning I told my kids I was going to yoga and then would take them to Starbucks. My W asked "are you doing now?" I said I was going to a 845am class. She said she was going to a class at 915am in the next town over with an instructor we both like. She intended for me to say "ok, I will go with you." Instead, I said "have fun" and then left.
I know right now I am pushing her to the OM. But I am going to trust in the process. He who cares the least has the most power. I need to gain the power back. Unlike a few weeks ago when I would have jumped at any chance to be with my W, I have said no to those offers on a few occasions during the past few days. I will not pursue, I will not care where she is and with whom.
At the same time, I want to confront her and just say "you should move to NYC and get an apartment so you can live out your fantasy life. if you wake up from the fantasy and want to come back to our reality, our M, our family, we will be here in Boston. In the mean time, I am moving forward because I deserve better."
Does that sound like a bad idea? Or should I just be patient and let this play out?
We are dealing with very similar circumstances. You have made it clear that you want your M to work. You have asked for honesty and transparency but your W is not giving it to you. You have shown your W your changes and that the road to R is smoothly paved if she makes that choice. You are doing a solid job of following the rules. "Your smallest consistent action will be noticed far more than any words you could say or write." In my opinion I would let it play out rather than tell her to move.
Shodan,
Generally, speeches and grand proclamations are a bad idea. The best way to show your wife that you are "moving on" is to actually MOVE ON. Ditto for saying/doing "I've made changes."
You seem to swing wildly from passive Plan A'ing to a very angry, hardline Plan B'ing. My advice for you would be to try to find some equilibrium here, and stay with a loving-but-firm Plan B, without the anger and the grand proclamations.
Remember, she probably doesn't trust your positions right now as you've changed them before as she's done different things to placate you. You will have to demonstrate, over time, that you are serious about your boundaries.
Starsky
Shodan,
I am exactly where you are at the moment. I do not care where she is at or with whom. I haven't asked her or even gave the sense I give a poop what she does.
I do wonder if I should tell her to move now instead of when she is ready(who knows when that is) but I know that is not the way to go.
I just keep my patience go about my business and live like she is not there. I do watch and observe her when we are both at home. She is acting different not towards me but just different.
This confuses me but I just vent to a close friend instead of my W.
The only problem I see by being patience like this and not speaking up is I feel like I might be allowing my W to cake eat. I certainly don't want to give W that impression but If I speak up even in a calm manner I feel my W will somehow turn it around on me and then in her mind be able to justify her position as a WAW.
I know DB is counterintuitive and that is why I am doing what I am doing but sometimes the anger does rear its ugly head and I leave before I screw anything up.
I am moving on with my life also in every way I can think of except dating. I am not telling my W this just showing her. It is very difficult to show that you have moved on with your life without dating or filing for D yourself. But those are 2 things I can't do.
Hang in there!!
The last few days have been interesting. I went dark/plan B on Thursday night and did not speak more than a few sentences to my W until Monday afternoon. Finally, I decided to say something (I know, bad move) by asking about NYC and whether or not she planned to move there. I told her that "you clearly love NYC and the energy that it brings you. I get it. You feel free there, no responsibilities. Why don't you move there and see if this is what you really want?" Note, I said this in a nice tone. We talked for about three hours after this. We went through all of her and my issues (she was open to hearing my issues about the marriage). She harped on how controlling I am and that she does not like the future she sees with me when I act that way. It is a non-starter for her. She said that I have been more controlling in the past three months than I was before she asked for the D. I find this pretty interesting and listened.
We then talked about the stress of our lives and how we should have corrected it long ago. We were living too much for our kids, their schedules, etc. and not enough for us individually and as a couple. She then went to the store but came back 15 min later. While she was gone, I started thinking and realized that what had made me feel pretty better those past few days was the detachment. While I love my W with all of my heart, being with her brings back the pain (hard). The pain was partially due to what she has done, but a lot of it was from the uncertainty. Will she come back ever? Will we do this for 12 months and then she decides her feelings have not come back and we get a D? If that is our future, I decided that I wanted no part of that uncertainty and limbo. So when she got back, we started talking again and finally I asked if she wanted to work on the M. She said yes but that she was not sure how her feelings would come back. She told me that she loved me but her feelings were gone. FYI...she said it was not a sexual thing...our sex has always been great and she is sexually attracted to me.
With that said by her, I commented that I was ready to move on. It was my first choice but that I needed to protect myself. I told her that I did not deserve this pain and did not deserve to live in a sex less, affection less, attention less marriage. I said that I deserve better, as did she. and then I said that frankly this whole process has been exhausting. If she did not want to work on our M and commit to a loving, mature relationship with no outside distractions, then we should just call it like it is.
This seemed to wake her up a bit. She kept saying that she was scared and very cautious. When she would see good stuff that I was doing, I would then back track and be super controlling (NOTE: the only time I have showed any anger, I think, had to do with her texting on the phone and the OM...I know I needed to not care, but it did make me angry). My controlling behavior showed her that I was not going to change. She also commented that everything that I have done is not the real me. It is not sustainable.
I listened and then just stated that I loved the "new" me and he was here to stay. The new me is moving forward in his life, with or without her. I told her that I could no longer continue to have my heart stomped on and that she might wake up from this fog someday and realize what she had lost, but that I might not be there.
Overall, ironically, it was actually a very "loving" conversation. Per usual, we can talk for hours. Later, a neighbor invited us over for a BBQ. Our kids wanted us to go, so we went and had a great time.
So where do we stand now...I am being friendly b/c if I go true Plan B, I come across as a d*ck. But through my actions and words, I am moving forward but allowing her to decide a path back. I am going to my guitar lesson tonight and have being going to yoga everyday. Convos and texts with her are limited to the kids, although we did talk for 30 min today on the phone about the whole working mom/living in the suburbs/feels own pressure to be good mom and good at job/has no peers where we live thing. I mentioned to her that another family we know is dealing with the same issues. Two working parents, young kids, no time for themselves or each other. Again, we connect on a very deep level, which is why this is so hard.
But for my own sanity, I need to move forward. When I do that, and envision a future without her, my pain lessens. My chest and heart do not hurt as much. I don't want this future, but I cannot stop her from going there if that is what she wants. And at some point, I will reach a point where limbo is no longer an option for me. If she cannot commit to our M, then I will file for D. I have not decided when that time/date is.
Ultimately, she needs time and space to think. I need to practice patience and also just not care about her texting or potential meetings with the OM. She will not see a completely "dark" version of me since that shows my d*ck side even if I do not mean to (but being super curt with someone can come across that way obviously).
on a bright side, she made me coffee this morning. I won't read into it but did want to note it.
Really, your wife needs to learn a new tune. That whole "you're so CONTROLLING!" thing is really wearing thin.
I thought, SCRIPT-wise, you handled the conversation really well. But then when the rubber hit the road, you signed on for more LIMBO. THAT is the place that's sucking the life out of you from my perspective, and I just don't see how that's a good plan for you?
Personally, I think you should do everything you detail here, plus have her served with divorce. You are at that 23rd hour where I think it's the only action, sadly, that's going to back up your "I'm moving forward"/"I will not live in an open marriage"/"I deserve more" statements.
Otherwise, they're just grand pronouncements.
Starsky
With that said by her, I commented that I was ready to move on. It was my first choice but that I needed to protect myself. I told her that I did not deserve this pain and did not deserve to live in a sex less, affection less, attention less marriage. I said that I deserve better, as did she. and then I said that frankly this whole process has been exhausting. If she did not want to work on our M and commit to a loving, mature relationship with no outside distractions, then we should just call it like it is.
This seemed to wake her up a bit.
For that moment, yes it probably did, but now she will be watching you closely to see if your actions align with your words. I think she's going to try to throw you just enough bones to keep your plate spinning as her "Plan B" (in the "2nd choice" sense of the word, not the Harley "PLan A/Plan B" sense) until she can figure out what she wants to do.
I still don't think she has any credible fear of losing you if she doesn't change course, Sho. I really don't.
Starsky
Starsky's right. I had similar conversations with my WAW every couple mos. She'd give me just enough of a sob story about being confused and wanting to try but not sure if it would work, that I'd sign up for another month of limbo.
Yep. It's pretty standard stuff.
i hear ya. That is why i am trying to be patient and will give this a month or two. If no action on her part, I am filing for D. I actually am in a decent place honestly. The more I let go, the more I just don't care. I know that sounds bad but it allows me to feel less pain and hurt. Which is my #1 goal right now.
but let me think about whether I do this now or later. Thanks for the feedback and continued help.
You bet.
I know I'm hard on you, but you seem like a great guy who's really trying here, and I really want you guys to make it if at all possible!
One risk of waiting that I've seen happen plenty of times, that you should factor in to your decision-making.
What if OM dumps her in the next 2 months???
Then you've got a depressed, in-HARD-withdrawal, still-fogged-out-and-wayward/entitled wife on your hands, SAYING she wants to come back and work on the marriage. But she's only one "I'm sorry!" phone call or text from OM1 away from crushing your heart again, and she's very vulnerable to an OM2 (it happens more than you'd think).
And you get all of that lovely stuff WITHOUT even having the benefit of having taken a strong stand that might have re-attracted your wife.
Just something to think about.
Starsky
Yeah. It's a fine line, sho. But each time I read your posts these days, if I'm being honest, I feel you're more and more in the territory of being W's BFF instead of her HUSBAND.
I understand the fear. We have all been there.
I hope you stick to your self-imposed timeline.
We are rooting for you, bro.
Train, Starsky...per usual, thank you for your comments, insight and feedback. It is not fear that is keeping me from strictly enforcing the boundaries/filing for the D. A few things are going through my head...
One, my controlling behavior, or more specifically her perception of my controlling behavior, is the big issue in play here. She has mentioned it SO MANY times as the reason that she asked for the D. She said that she could not stay in a M a minute longer with the way that I was controlling her and our lives. She did not like the future that she was envisioning. I fully admit to having these tendencies. I see it in my dad and know that many things that we do and say can be influenced primarily by genetics. My dad is SUPER controlling and my mom has just learned to deal with it. My W does not want to be like my mom (she has said this countless times). So while she is saying "see, your demanding me to show you my texts, not text certain people, etc. shows that you are controlling" does follow the WAW/H playback, it is actually a concern of my W from before the A.
Two, my W is SUPER stubborn. She hates being told what to do unless she wants the guidance. I once convinced her to take a kickboxing class with me and she was so annoyed with the instructor who was telling her how to do certain things (keep your hands up, do this with you leg, etc.) that she never went back to the class. Another example....we have used two dog trainers with my dog and she basically refuses to listen to their advice. she will complain when the dog does certain things and does not listen to her, but refuses to be involved in the training and refuses to reinforce the rules. This is not a new thing since the A. She just likes to do things her way. Another example...she buys "KIND" bars at the kiosk at her work. The price is basically what they would charge at an airport...super overpriced. A woman who works for her will tell her that she is paying too much money, should just get a bunch of them from the grocery store and save $2 per bar, etc. My W has complained to me countless times about this woman and her comments.
Three, my W needs to feel me pulling away without me going into d*ck mode. When we first started dating, we were great friends but she did not want to ruin our friendship by starting to date. I was very direct with her and told her that I was not looking to date. I told her that we had a chance at something real and lasting. She still balked so I asked a female friend for advice. Her advice was to hook up with someone else and get her jealous. So I did that. The next weekend my W asked me to go to her parent's house in VT with her and I said no, that I had plans. She later told me that she was so annoyed by that but also find my cockiness very attractive. A week later we were out at a bar and she kissed me. One week later we went on our first date and told each other that we loved each other. Three months later we moved in together. So ultimatums will not get my W to be attracted to me again. She needs to feel that she is losing me and apparently wants me to be a little cocky. Filing for the D may be needed to show her that I am serious but for now I am showing that in other ways. So how I am showing that...I am going out, I mention to her woman at my work, I talk to woman at yoga in front of her and make many comments about moving on. Unlike past trips to NYC, she is going to NYC next week and is texting me her potential travel itineraries and that she is on the last flight back on Tues night. I told her to stay Tues night and all week if she wants. I have plans on Wednesday night and told her that I would get a sitter. I told her to stay all week but she said via text "no I don't want to be away more than necessary."
Four, she is starting to do nice things for me. When we talked this weekend, I told her that the reason I still had feelings for her was that I was doing loving things for her bu that to protect myself those nice things were going to stop. I told her that she had not done a single thing for me since that fateful day in June except buy me a magazine once. I told her that if you want your feelings to come back, you need to start acting in a loving way and doing loving things. They will not magically reappear. She seems to be trying now.
Could she be playing me to bring me back into the fold of options A/B? Sure, but it won't work if I don't come back. I am being polite but not overly friendly. When she mentions an issue, I will listen and then say "wow, sounds like you have a lot to think about" and then I move on to something else. I am not getting pulled into any drama. But I need to listen b/c I know I will come across as being a d*ck if I do not, which is not good.
So when will I say "ok, time to sh&t or get off the pot...here are my parameters/boundaries, are you in or out?" I am not sure exactly. But I know right now I don't have the pains in my chest that I used to have because I am standing strong and 100% prepared to walk away from my M.
So while she is saying "see, your demanding me to show you my texts, not text certain people, etc. shows that you are controlling" does follow the WAW/H playback, it is actually a concern of my W from before the A.
I get that. But her decision to have an affair created a reasonable expectation from her husband (that she be transparent with you as part of any no-contact/reconciliation plan) supercedes that. Once trust is re-established, this burden can be lifted but for now her cries of "Controlling!" aren't enough, in my view.
It's a button of yours that she has learned how to push, especially recently, and she KNOWS it will get you to back down from even very reasonable requests.
Starsky
Sho, NO ONE has told you to "go into d*ck mode." You keep on saying "I can't enforce reasonable boundaries or even do a proper Plan B without going into d*ck mode."
So fix that. The fault doesn't lie in the strategy; the fault lies in your application of it. So you're just throwing out the strategy, saying "I can't do that."
Three, my W needs to feel me pulling away without me going into d*ck mode. When we first started dating, we were great friends but she did not want to ruin our friendship by starting to date. I was very direct with her and told her that I was not looking to date. I told her that we had a chance at something real and lasting. She still balked so I asked a female friend for advice. Her advice was to hook up with someone else and get her jealous. So I did that. The next weekend my W asked me to go to her parent's house in VT with her and I said no, that I had plans. She later told me that she was so annoyed by that but also find my cockiness very attractive. A week later we were out at a bar and she kissed me. One week later we went on our first date and told each other that we loved each other. Three months later we moved in together.
Interesting. I think you are right on target in knowing that in that ^^^ lies a key to how to re-attract your wife.
I also think you're drawing completely the wrong key from it.
Your wife is attracted by a strong stand. Many, many women (not all) are. MOST of these will simultaneously COMPLAIN about the strong stand that you take. They key is to watch what a woman DOES, not listen to what she SAYS she wants.
There are ways to do that without being some neanderthal, controlling d*kk. Mostly it has to come from a pure heart, good intentions and a loving attitude and having her best interests and those of your marriage always in mind. But at its basic, pure raw ATTRACTION level, there's a basic law of human interpersonal male/female dynamics at play here, and you'd be wise to learn it and apply it to your advantage in trying to re-attract your wife and eventually reconcile your marriage.
Starsky
Starsky...I agree that no one has told me to go into d*ck mode. I am having a hard time drawing the line without seeming that way. It is my problem to solve, totally agree. I need to show her by my actions that I do not need her and that I am moving forward.
How did you act around your wife when you told her about your boundaries and instituted plan B? I understand no proactive texting, calling, emails unless about the kids. But what about when you were home together? Did you just not talk to her and/or not remain in the same room when she entered? Did you not do family dinners together? Did you not watch TV together as a family? If the kids wanted to watch a movie on TV, did you not watch it with them if your W was present?
Train, Starsky, others,
I am trying to stayed detached and GAL but it is hard. We have kids together and live in the same house. We don't want to tell the kids since there is some hope this could work out. So how do I do plan B at home? Do I refuse to watch TV together, or do family dinners? What about our kids' sports? Do I just not go or tell my W that she should not go?
Nope. Those things sound really controlling - and like you're trying to get a reaction from W.
I KNOW how confusing and hard things are right now for you. But you don't have to make this more complicated than it is.
You act confident - as though you couldn't care less how your wife is acting or what she will decide. You can hang as a family to watch TV. You smile and act comfortable. No foot rubs or back rubs or anything of that nature. Sports games? Go, sure. And definitely don't tell W not to go. But dress nicely. Wear a new cologne. Maybe some new shoes. And walk around. Mingle with people. Increase your social circle there. Some would suggest that you don't even sit near W. But always make sure you're smiling, confident and happy - always putting that best sho on display.
Have an air of mystery. But don't be cold or mean. Quite the contrary, actually. You want to re-attract your W. No one is attracted to someone who is cold and distant.
If you take your W a coffee, look your best, smile and don't wait around for small talk.
Confidence and decisiveness coming from a place of love, care and respect are very attractive to us girls. If a man is a doormat, most of us will walk right over him.
Were you a wet noodle when W fell in love with you? No? Then don't be one now. But don't jump to the other extreme either.
Starsky may have more to add.
Thanks Train, these examples are very helpful. I think I was going about it the wrong way, being "dark" but not confident. I need to exude confidence and be attractive without pursuing her.
Update on things...my W went to NYC yesterday on a Sunday. She said she had to take out two people who are starting on her team. She is getting a ton of pressure from work to be in NYC all of the time.
Before she left, we chatted briefly and she mentioned that she does not want us to be where we are, takes full responsibility for not saying anything sooner but that her feelings for me are just different. She feels empty. I told her that it will take a long time for those feelings to come back and that it starts with committing to working on our M with no outside distractions. I told her that we both have some big decisions to make.
She texted me a couple of time yesterday and we had to talk about the kids for a bit. On that call, I reiterated what we had discussed...effectively, this is her journey and she needs to figure out what will make her happy and that only she can make herself happy. She is working today and tomorrow, going to the Yankees game with clients and then on the last flight back on Tuesday night, landing here at midnight. I told her that she should stay the night and come back later in the week if she wanted. She said no, I want to be home.
I know the guilt of the kids is what is causing her to want to be home.
I will continue to detach as much as I can. Move forward, be a great dad, show confidence at all times, be light and breezy, smile a lot and avoid love busters (specifically angry outbursts and disparaging comments).
Yep. And also avoid any more R talks! No more of those. Ya know why? Because even though everything you have to say is valuable, each time you two talk about your relationship, it digs the ugly parts up - AGAIN - and makes the *negative* the focus.
You don't want THAT, do ya?
It's time to STFU and be the best d@mn sho you can be: a H that only a fool would leave.
I need to exude confidence and be attractive without pursuing her.
Precisely.
I definitely think I have been messing up lately. Damn emotions. One minute I feel confident and great, and then next minute something sets me off and I show anger or frustration. One minute I know I will be fine moving forward and on, and the next minute I miss my W, my best friend, and get sad and emotional. I get mad that she wants to throw this all away without even trying.
I agree that no more R talk. I just need to be easy going, confident, fun and attractive.
Hi Sho,
We're in very different situations, but I empathize with your plight. Being light is hard when everything feels so heavy. Just keep on keeping on.
DB
Today has been a little better. I wrote down the following list as a reminder to myself...
Avoid all A and R talks, it brings up the negative stuff, need to focus positive
Do NOT jump to conclusions….when I see her on her phone, I ASSUME it is with the OM and get mad. I just need to ignore it and detach.
Do not be mean
Be kind and decent
Do not pursue
Do not talk about the A
Stay calm
Exude confidence and be attractive (social, interesting, fun, moving on)
GAL/detach
Be a great dad
Be light and breezy
Act as if
Know that I will make it
Be independent
Avoid love busters
- Dishonesty
-Disparaging comments
- Selfish demands
- Angry outbursts
- Individual pursuit
In some sense all of this would be SO MUCH easier if we were separated. I never would see her, which would allow me to detach. My W comes back late tonight so I will see her in the morning at some point. I am going out tomorrow night, have a thing at my kids' school Thursday night and then am going out Friday night as well, so my time with her will be limited.
I know I can show her fun/confident Sho when we are around each other. My issue is detaching...hard to do when she is present.
I found it very difficult too, Sho. Believe it or not I'm actually a "pleaser"/"Mr. Nice Guy" co-dependent at heart.
When my wife and I were going thru our sitch, I tried to schedule my days and my week so that I'd see her as little as possible, going to the gym after dinner, taking our boys for outings during the weekends, etc. Although she never admitted it, she pretty much did the same so between her own avoidance activities and her time with her OM we actually saw very little of each other, especially during the week.
Then when we did have to be in the same house, I tried to occupy myself with yard work or things to do in other parts of the house, to limit my interactions with her.
You'll never be able to cut it out completely, especially with the kids, but you can limit about 75% of it I found.
Hang in there,
Starsky
This list looks good!
If you're finding it easier to detach when you're not around her then make a point to be even busier! Even if it's a quick run out to fill the car up with gas after the kids are in bed... you're mysterious and not around.
Starsky, when you took the boys out on the weekends, did you just schedule it and not invite her, or tell her that she could come along? I know I have asked this before, but I just want to be extra careful. I do not want to spend my weekends "battling" with my W to see who can be the better parent.
Mostly just told her I was taking them golfing, or to the driving range/putting green, or to a baseball game or whatever. Every once in awhile -- for the sake of the boys -- I'd tell her she was welcome to come along if she wanted to (she usually declined).
I made sure I did things with them that were authentic (my sons and I have always shared common sports interests), and not for example spending a bunch of family money on fancy lunches or the circus or something that never would have appealed to me and the boys, and then posting pics on Facebook or something).
Starsky
Shodan our sitch are very similar. My boys are very active so we spend most of our evenings running to sporting events. 1 in football the other soccer so we naturally go different ways. Later in the evening I have resigned to sitting outside on the porch and enjoying a cold 1 or 2. If she is watching tv or doing other things I will work on laundry or straighten things up. Weekends are actually a little tougher but we have sort of set up a schedule where we each go out one night a weekend and we have a built in baby sitter.
Detaching is VERY hard to do when W is still at home. I have to pause every time she speaks so that I can remember to not let it effect me emotionally. I have only been at it for 6 weeks but I can tell you it will get easier. FYI she moved to a seperate bedroom and that really helped.
Your list looks great, sho! And, as usual, you're getting awesome pointers here on how to minimize contact with W in-home.
The ONLY thing I would add is this: when you deliver information to your W about where you're taking the kids ... or when you tell her you're going out ... do not act mad or bothered. Do not sulk. Do not be patronizing about anything. (I'm not AT ALL saying you are; I just know how easy it is to swing from "taking a stand" and "detaching" to being a douche and coming across as controlling and/or pouty. At least that's always easy for ME. Lol.)
Stay focused on that list up there: confident and happy BUT ALSO strong, convicted and determined.
Friday I have plans so not seeing her will be easy. Saturday will be more difficult. I was thinking about planning something with the kids that they want to do (movie, mini golf, etc.) and then telling her what we are doing. It is on this point where I am confused...do I say "Hey, I am taking the kids to mini golf and to get ice cream on Saturday, you can join us if you want, I am sure the kids would like that" or "hey, I am taking the kids to mini golf and to get ice cream on Saturday, what were you planning to do?"
"Hey, I am taking the kids to mini golf and to get ice cream on Saturday, you can join us if you want, I am sure the kids would like that"
I wouldn't add the "kids would like that" pressure. Otherwise perfect.
"hey, I am taking the kids to mini golf and to get ice cream on Saturday, what were you planning to do? "
You are
not going to ask her about her plans.
Thanks Zew
As I think back over the past several weeks, I do feel like kicking myself. Specifically, I have definitely put too much pressure on her at times. I just need to BACK OFF and not talk about the A and M. She knows I disapprove of OM and that I will not live in an open M. no need to say anything again.
I know she is confused and just will need time and space, which I will give her by detaching and GALing. Time to just be confident, attractive, strong and happy.
My W just texted me and I quickly read the text to say "I am thinking about canceling my trip to NYC next week S7 broke his arm this AM" but she actually wrote "I am thinking about canceling my trip to NYC S7 broke my heart this AM". My son said something about my W traveling so much.
If I had read it correctly I would not have called her. However I read it to be the former so I jumped out of my meeting right away and called her to ask what happened. UGGH. So it looked like I wanted to hear her issues. Once she corrected me about what happened, I said "ok, I thought he broke his arm, I was very concerned, but I got it now, I need to run back to my meeting."
I wished that I had not called her and just read the text more closely.
Don't sweat the small stuff, sho.
I spoke with my DB coach today. Her recommendation was not to go straight to filing for a D unless that is truly what I want. My W clearly has a lot of hurt and does not "trust" the changes that I have showed. My slip ups in the past two weeks (getting frustrated when she is texting, talking about the A, etc.) are not helping her see a safe road back to our M.
Her recommendations were:
- Show strength in what I can live with and what I cannot live with, but don’t talk about the A, texting, etc. anymore.
- Detach, but she recognizes that it is hard in the same house. Her view is that detaching is not being caught up in her every move, no more conversations about the R and the A, detach from the connection a little, and try to disconnect emotionally
- Be patient, do not file for D unless 100% mean it. My W wants time and pushing this will cause her to back away and get angry
- Do not compete with the other person
- Do not do anything that makes my W see me in a poor light. Similar to what everyone said here, be confident, be strong and be fun
- Going dark means focusing on myself, improving my life without her (aka getting more involved with friends, focus on the kids, focus on hobbies, focus on my job, focus on myself)
- Continue to focus on changing me...the big thing my W has mentioned is my controlling behavior, not just how I reached to the texting but to other things that I did in the past. She sees a lot of my Dad in me, which scares her. He is very controlling. I need to show my W that I am working on being less controlling.
- Do family stuff from time to time, but not a ton. It shows commitment to the family
- Her recommendation for my 180/what I do from here. (1) Don’t talk about A. (2) Don’t talk about texts. (3) don’t talk about R. (4) Don’t focus on my agenda, be more patient (5) Fix myself, work on myself
- Don’t show bitterness and anger
- Be a bit more mysterious, pull away a bit
Last night I went back to my martial art for the first time in 3.5 months. It was a little weird to be back, but many folks told me that they had missed me. Felt good to hear that. I am not sure whether or not I will continue with it long term, but for now it gave me an hour during which I barely thought about my situation.
When I saw my W yesterday (before work, after work before going to the martial art), I was very positive, told her that what she was cooking smelled great but spent my time outside with my S7 throwing a baseball. I then hung out with my kids before I left for my class. When I got back my W asked how it went, I spoke briefly with her about it but nothing deep.
This morning I was again super positive, worked out in the morning and then went to work. Said a very nice "Have a great day" to my W as I left.
Some positive things to note:
- My W came home from NYC on last flight out on Tuesday night rather than stay until Wed
- She effectively promised my S7 that she will not travel next week (if she were in a full fledge A, would she spend the following week in Boston?)
- after she texted me to say she was going to try to not travel next week, I texted back a few hours later that "the kids definitely will appreciate that but we also understand that you have got to do what you have to do". She texted back “F this job” and I wrote back "sorry to hear that"
- She told me last night that the travel is killing her and she is frazzled.Not sleeping, super stressed, etc. I just listened and did not do anything to comfort her
- When I got back from martial arts last night, I noticed that she appears to have finished His needs, Her needs and re-read a letter I gave her a few weeks outlining my stance (aka I want to work on M, see more value to us in R than in D, but she is on her journey and needs to do what she needs to do, if we do decide to work on the M I will be fully committed but we need to forgive ourselves and each other and not dwell on the past, we both have a lot of decisions to make, etc.)
So, mostly positive signs but I am not reading into it. I will continue to march forward as a confident, strong, and fun man.
What will I continue to do:
- Detach, detach
- GAL
- Be confident, strong, fun and social
- Do not mention the A or the M/R
- Be kind, don’t be mean
- Be a great father
- Listen/talk when necessary, but don’t get too deep
Update and some journalling...super limited contact with my W yesterday. After work, I went to an event at my kids' school until 8pm. I saw my W briefly from 545-630pm but had limited contact with her, mainly just played with my kids.
other things to note...I have been having a pretty good couple of days, really staying positive. At the school event, I talked to a bunch of people, was very social, made jokes, etc. Not that I want a D in my M, but I am getting closer to that being an OK result. I know that I will be fine either way. Of course, last night, I wanted to hold my W and just treat her like my W. But I could not do that. I need to detach.
I am seeing some changes in her. I have no idea whether or not she ended things with the OM. If I had to guess, she is cooling things with him, perhaps only texting. She is not traveling next week (or at least that is her plan) so if she really was in a full blown A I would not think she would go 10-12 days without seeing him.
I know this is mind reading and she likely is trying to keep me close so she has me as an option. But I continue to GAL and detach. GALing has been huge...gets my mind off of my situation, which improves my PMA. Off to see my IC soon and then am meeting a friend for dinner and drinks at 6pm. Will be good to laugh and just get out.
Tomorrow we have soccer for D10 but I think my W and I are going to separate yoga classes, so I think we will have somewhat limited contact. My plan at soccer is to be SUPER social and/or just play with S7 the whole time. Detaching feels good. Makes me feel stronger. More confident.
YES, sho! You're getting it!!! Sounds like you're doing awesome, buddy.
PERFECT!!!
Quick update...Friday I went out with my friend and told him the whole story. He was shocked and said that he and his W always count my W and I as the example of how a married couple should be. They always have discussed how great we are together and how they wanted to be more like us. Nice and at the same time really hard to hear.
I came home in time to see my kids. Came in the house super positive, told everyone that I had a great time. As we went to bed, my W was laying near me and put her hand on my arm and rub it, saying "I am glad you had fun tonight." She never touches me.
Sat morning we went to the same yoga class together but she was in front of me, not next to me. Before class started, I spoke with a friend of mine who sat next to me and my W kept trying to be a part of the convo. We went separately to my D10's game (I had to go somewhere before) and saw each other, but I sat away and talked with people. I then went to another yoga class later in the day and my W came as well. We talked a bit and had a good time. Then Saturday night I had made my family a dinner reservation at a local restaurant (my DB coach said to do family stuff to show I am a good, committed and strong father). My kids were not in the best mood before, so my W said that we should just go without them. I convinced the kids to come and we had a great time. When we got back, my W sat right next to me on the couch (touching me) and then went upstairs to change and came back down, put a pillow on my lap, and laid down on my to watch TV and read a magazine. I did not touch her although I wanted to.
This morning we did the same yoga class but she is with my D10 at a soccer game one hour away and I am coaching my S7 in soccer later today.
so all in all a good weekend. Probably too much interaction with my W and not enough detachment. Through it all, I remain super positive, super confident and am acting social and strong. My W even started talking to me about our next family trip.
I plan to stay the course, not mention the A and the texting and just be patient, showing her a strong, confident and fun Sho.
Sunday night after all of the kids' activities was interesting. My W went for a walk with the dog and my D10. I made some dinner for the family, opened a bottle of wine, and sat on the front porch to drink a glass and play the guitar (I am still very bad...lesson #4 this Thursday). My W came home from the walk and said "good idea" and I said something like "my guitar playing? Yeah, I need a lot of practice" and she said "no, the wine". She went inside, poured herself a glass and sat next to me on the front porch. Then the kids said that they were hungry, so she said "let me feed them so we can hang out here." We sat and talked for probably an hour. Not about our M, our R, the A...just random stuff. That night I went to bed before her and was watching a "chick flick." She came upstairs soon after I went up and laid in bed (basically on me) and said "so I bring coffee to you in the morning (she did that for the first time in a long time) , you will watch a chick flick with me. I like that."
On Monday we had somewhat limited contact...only texting about mundane kids stuff.
Tomorrow night I am going to a night yoga class and Thursday I have my guitar lesson. So contact will be pretty limited. I sense that my W wants to work on our R by taking small baby steps. I am avoiding all A, M and R talks. She still has not admitted to the A and of course has not given my access to her phone. The A could be going on still but her time in NYC has been somewhat limited the past few weeks. Assuming she goes to NYC next week for work (her job really does require her to be there) she would have been in NYC five nights in four weeks. Not exactly the recipe for a hot A.
Knowing my W as I do, she wants time and space. She needs to see that I have changed and that my changes will stick before she fully recommits to the M. She has a fear of being hurt again. Her big issue was my controlling ways. I am working on that every day and speaking with my IC about it again this Friday.
I need to vent a bit. I spoke with my MIL earlier. I had not spoken with her in a while and wanted to connect. I did not call her to talk about my situation but rather about life in general. As I was about to hang up, she asked how everything was going. I decided to be somewhat honest, told her that I was giving my W space and that she is on her own journey and needs to decide what she wants. In the mean time, I am moving forwarding in my own life. My MIL told me that she asked my W if there was an OM and my W said no. I told my MIL that I know that there is/was an OM but it really does not matter. It is about two adults in a M who need to figure out what they want. If my W wants to commit to the M, she has to let me know.
What angered me was my MIL started talking about how there were signs earlier in our M that my W was not happy and that there were things that I did that my W never commented about but in retrospect she was lying and that my actions did anger/upset her. What irked me about this comment was that my MIL implied that this whole thing is my fault and that all of the issues were on my W's side. Looking back, there were many things that my W did to push me away. There are plenty of things that she needs to do to mend our M/R (exclusive of the A issues).
It is funny/ironic that my W tells my MIL that she was unhappy for years, hence why she asked for the D. And meanwhile, I am devastated and am working to change me and the M. But since I want to work on the M and my W asked for the D, the implication is I was the source of all issues.
i also thought this website had some interesting insight about the minds of people going through affairs/WAS
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp
"What irked me about this comment was that my MIL implied that this whole thing is my fault and that all of the issues were on my W's side."
No she didn't imply that it was your fault. Go back and reread what you wrote. She just told you the concerns the W told her. She didn't blame you. Unless she came out and told you that it was "YOUR FAULT BECAUSE, ETC."
CONT.
Then she was just relaying information. Part of the DBing process is learning how to listen and not just go off half-cocked about something that we THINK is implied. That's what you're doing.
What irked me about this comment was that my MIL implied that this whole thing is my fault and that all of the issues were on my W's side.
Mindreading.
fair enough, thanks for the check...hence why I wrote this here and did not say anything to anyone.
Blood is thicker than water, Sho. Don't kid yourself.
Starsky
My detaching and GAL activities went well last week and this weekend. But unfortunately, with my W home, we are around each other more, which seems to have eliminated any benefits that I had from detaching last week. Last week, I was around a lot of people at work and after work. This week, work has been quieter, so I have not been as social. And my W and I spent a decent amount of time together this weekend (mainly as family) so my "attachment" comes back. Now, I sit here with the pain in my chest that I hate. The pain of not knowing what will happen.
Tomorrow I am going to a late yoga class, Thursday night I have my guitar lesson and am going out with a friend afterwards, and then Monday I have an event at my work. But this weekend we will be around each other a bit, which is tough. On the one hand, I like being around her and showing her the new Sho (social, confident, fun, and strong).
I keep looking at my notes to myself and what I need to continue to do:
Don’t talk about A
Don’t talk about texts
don’t talk about R
Fix myself, work on myself
Don’t show bitterness and anger
Be a bit more mysterious, pull away a bit
Be confident, strong, fun and social
Be patient
Be a great father
Be less controlling
"W home, we are around each other more, which seems to have eliminated any benefits that I had from detaching"
You can detach while your W is there physically. Detachment doesn't mean that you forget about the WAS or don't acknowledge them.
Mr Bond...thanks for the input. I agree that it can be done but that it is harder when she is here. Then again, if she were not here, it would be easy to detach but that would not be good for our R/M either.
This morning, my W mentioned that she is trying to plan her travel for next week. She may need to be gone Tue-Fri. She is trying not to leave Tues night so she limits her travel to only Wed and Thur night, coming back on Friday. But she may have to leave on Tuesday if her meetings start Wednesday morning. I just told her to do whatever she needs to do. If she needs to be gone all week, we (the kids and I) will understand.
The ironic thing is that pre BD and A, I would support fully my W traveling for work. I would not like it but I also know that her job is important to her. I am trying to keep that mindset now but of course it is harder with the A in the air. Granted, she has not admitted to the A but has shown signs that she is not really in it fully.
Not sure what to do here except detach, GAL and be patient. My DB coach believes that my W needs to feel that I will not hold the A over her head for the rest of our lives. my DB coach also believes that my W has some deep hurt that she is struggling to get over. It could take a while for her to get to that point where she is willing to take the leap of faith to work on our M. Which brings me back full circle to detaching and GAL, which is the only way that I can survive this.
You can show her your STRENGTH as a man inside and out while she is there. Conduct your business the way you want to. This doesn't mean that you pay all attention on her, it means that you just do what you want to do in the best way possible irregardless of whether she notices or not.
Update...we had a pretty good weekend. Yoga, coaching soccer, etc. My wife had a charity event in Westchester Fri and Sat night. So was able to get out of the Sat night event and came home by 8pm. She stayed in CT near the event, not in NYC, so perhaps she was telling the truth and not with the OM.
Unfortunately, Sunday I did some snooping and found tickets to a concert in NYC for this coming Thursday that my W had bought. Of course, I knew nothing about them. The lies are what are killing me. I have no idea what to believe anymore. It is pretty apparent that my W does not care that I do not trust her. She feels entitled to do whatever she wants. But then she also will make efforts to fly out the morning of a meeting (rather than the night before) or come back on the last flight home (rather than stay until the next day) so I see efforts by her to NOT be in NYC and to be around her family.
I know the answer is to GAL and detach. I am just venting really. I just hate that my family and I are in this situation. My kids do not deserve this. I do not deserve this. Uggh.