So in short my wife has been having a PA for a year and a half now. I spent the last few months coming out of the fog thanks to DB. I had thought the PA was over but found out this week while having a very calm, open talk with her that it's going stronger than ever.
Basically she said she doesn't know what she's doing anymore, and if she could afford it she'd move out.
She won't get out, wont even leave the bedroom after i asked, so i think its time for more serious action on my part. Right now my plan is to contact OM and his family to inform them to stay away from my children (kids go to school together), get legal separation papers in order, and tell her I'm done being her cuckhold.
This all sounds good on paper but I'm terrified. Scared of ruining my chances of making things work, scared of what it'll do to my kids, my finances, everything. We have four kids 12 and under and I just don't know what to tell them either.
Any tips on what I've listed would be appreciated, or if there's any pitfalls I need to look out for.
MightyJ,
I would begin by getting your other finances and legal sitch battoned down before I did anything rash. You've waited this long, what's a couple more weeks going to hurt? Seek out all the advise you can get, pro and con, about the various approaches and ask others what worked for them in their sitch.
Does your wife work outside the home? Who pays for what around there? I certainly wouldn't be paying for anything that actively (or even passively) enables her affair.
This is a great forum to get support, as is any of the "DivorceBusting" or "DB or Not DB" social media forums. Exposure is NOT advocated by MWD (altho others strongly advise it), so you'd better be prepared emotionally, financially and legally for the fallout if you go that route.
Hang tight, you can do this. My wife and I came back from her affair stronger than ever, and have since celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary, the birth of our grandchild, and the marriage of our oldest daughter. It CAN be done!!!
Starsky
Thanks so much, in my heart reconcilliation is what I want more than anything. I know now that I can't let her live a double life anymore though. She's told me about the affair and said it was none of my concern and if it wasn't this guy it would be another because she can't see herself with me anymore. Of course she says this but is still living with me, sleeping in the same bed, wants to spend time with me etc. it's been very confusing/frustrating year.
I wish I had come across your situation sooner. I cheated on my husband of ten years, and the only thing that made me stop was LRT.
That brought reality into the picture full force and woke me up.
I am not suggesting you should expect the same in your situation, but waiting a year and a half to act on this just gives those two cheaters time to BOND and PREPARE.
If you use LRT sooner, particularly in the first six months or so, you have a much better chance in my opinion.
Do it anyways though, even after ten years... use LRT.. reclaim your dignity and respect for yourself.
Thanks for the reply, I definitely agree that if I'd acted sooner things might be different. Unfortunately I wasn't able to do it then and things are much worse now. I'm hopeful that whatever happens, I'll come out better on the other side of this.
I heard this once and it really is profound :
I'd rather be alone and healthy, than ill with my spouse.
Think about that.
It's terrible that she's only giving you those two choices, but at the same time she's making the choice very easy.
And sometimes MJ... SOMETIMES, you chosing to be alone and healthy motivates your spouse to join you.
But you can't do it looking over your shoulder. Do it for your own respect and dignity. You reclaim that, and she may join you, or she may not.
Dignity is the cake MJ, she's just icing. If you reclaim your dignity and she doesn't show up, then so be it... It's her loss.
Do you know what the success rate is for what she's doing? Like 2% of affairs succeed long term. It may take four years, but one of those two will cheat on the other eventually. There is no honor among thieves.
YOU need to get away from that. If she's smart, she'll join you.
If not, you are better off without her.
This is getting harder with each day. I met with a new lawyer and everything is in place. I've got the money for the retainer, all I have to do is pull the trigger. Yet I find myself being terrified of actually going through with it. I hate how I'm acting, I'm moping and my moods are swinging. What's terrible is that I know I'm acting the exact opposite of how I should be, not very attractive.
Dear MightyJ,
I’m sorry you have to go through this.
I'm a newbie but after reading your post I thought I’d share some of my experience as the unfaithful partner in a relationship for whatever it might be worth in your situation.
First I’d seek out the counseling services of DB before you do anything major. It’s invaluable.
I’d be cautious about confronting the other man. Based on my experience it could have brought me and the other person closer together rather than apart.
The real thing I wanted to share with you is the idea that the experience of having an affair is very much like having an addition. It’s not necessarily the other person, but the experience itself that is very addictive.
I would you encourage you to interact with your wife as if she was an addict. I’m not necessarily talking about compassion. What I think I mean is that you can’t control the addict’s choices, you can only control your own. So you are entitled to control your own wellbeing and those of your kids . Also you are entitled not to give support to the person in pursuit of their addiction i.e. give money, give support, housing, etc.
Most addicts won’t make the choice to quit until they come face to cost of their addiction; financial cost, lost relationships, dislocation, etc.. Therefore doing things that make her face the results of her choices may be the ONLY thing that works: No longer providing financial support, no longer providing emotional support that the OTHER cannot provide, separate living arrangements for you and the kids.
All with the message of “I love you; if you want to make things better I am here to work with you; but I am not willing to do anything that supports the choices you are making in this regard”
Good luck
This is getting harder with each day. I met with a new lawyer and everything is in place. I've got the money for the retainer, all I have to do is pull the trigger. Yet I find myself being terrified of actually going through with it. I hate how I'm acting, I'm moping and my moods are swinging. What's terrible is that I know I'm acting the exact opposite of how I should be, not very attractive.
MJ. You do this for YOU, not to attract HER.
YOU deserve someone honest and loyal who respects you, who treats you with some dignity.
SHE is not that right now.
You do this to protect yourself, and to reclaim your dignity that those two have taken from you. You do this in order to heal and protect yourself from further harm.
STOP worrying about how attractive that is.
What your spouse finds attractive is a cowardly, sleazy, interloper who trashes marriages. THAT is what your wife finds attractive.
STOP worrying about what your lying, cheating, wife thinks about this. She's made her choices, and now you make yours.
Live with her and allow he and her to erode your confidence and dignity, or put a stop to this business.
When you walk OUT of the triangle MJ, you put a stop to that affair. Now it's just an ugly, stagnant, thing they do without respectable foundation.
You end that affair when you refuse to be part of a triangle anymore.
You will be healthier, happier, and more confident getting FAR away from her right now.
THIS is how you do that.
Oh yeah, valentines day was a disaster. I'd been riding on the edge of moving forward for a while but I wanted the decision to come from a place where I was making the decision for me not just an emotional reaction to her shenanigans if that makes any sense. Thank you all for the clarity. In some of our calmer talks she's described the affair like a drug so your analogy makes sense.
So we finally had a talk last night. She was upset about everything and I told her that I was no longer interested in living with a woman who would not behave like a married woman. If she wasn't interested in doing so then I wanted her out. I was very calm, and she then went through every emotional reaction you could think of ending in, "fine I won't see OM anymore and we can live together in misery forever."
I wasn't exactly kicking her out just telling her I wasn't ok with what was going on. This morning she was looking at rentals on her phone, and has been acting mean to everyone in the house. I'm just tired of being the plan B, safety net, etc. Not trying to be mean I'm just stating I'm not up for ths anymore.
Feeling like I should just file the separation papers and move this along. I'm just exhausted today and needed to post.
hi MJ, let's put together a few things you have written on this thread...
my wife has been having a PA for a year and a half now... I know now that I can't let her live a double life anymore though.
you are not "letting" her do anything. she is doing it all by herself. you need to realize that you cannot control her or change her behavior, you can only control and change your own behavior.
She's told me about the affair and said it was none of my concern and if it wasn't this guy it would be another because she can't see herself with me anymore.
what things was she dissatisfied with in your marriage? are there things that you can change ABOUT YOURSELF to make her feel that you are a better choice, and she would not have to search for an OM to provide them? (especially when she points out that it is not this specific OM, but if it were not this one it would be another one.)
in my heart reconcilliation is what I want more than anything... we finally had a talk last night. She was upset about everything
what things was she upset about? maybe there is a clue there about what 180s you can do to show that you are the better choice.
Basically she said she doesn't know what she's doing anymore, and if she could afford it she'd move out... I told her that I was no longer interested in living with a woman who would not behave like a married woman. If she wasn't interested in doing so then I wanted her out.
so how is it going to help you reconcile if you throw her out of her home? (and it *is* her home as well as yours.) she has already said that she wishes she could leave but can't afford it. therefore, how will it convince her to reconcile if you throw her out? it could very likely have the opposite effect, i.e. to convince her that she will never want to reconcile with someone who threw her out of the only home she has. while I agree that she should not be having an affair, your behavior sounds terribly vengeful to me.
I was very calm, and she then went through every emotional reaction you could think of
sure you can be calm, you are not being thrown out of your home. I realize her behavior is deplorable, but why does she feel that she "can't see herself with [you] anymore" and "if it wasn't this guy it would be another"?
ending in, "fine I won't see OM anymore and we can live together in misery forever."
is that the type of "reconciliation" you want? what can you change ABOUT YOURSELF to make YOU the better choice, so that reconciliation won't be "misery" but "happily ever after"?
I'm just tired of being the plan B, safety net, etc. Not trying to be mean I'm just stating I'm not up for ths anymore.
ok, but that doesn't mean you need to throw her out, especially when she has nowhere else to go. there are lots of other things you can do, including 180s, GAL ("get a life"), etc. the specific things that YOU need to change (about yourself), depend on what she was dissatisfied with before.
also, have you read "Divorce Remedy"? even if you have, read it again, take notes, and see what you need to do.
Way to go MJ!
Don't believe for a minute she's ended anything. This was just the first step. Now get legal stuff going, make sure she knows it.
Keep the pressure on.
Realize she IS going to keep throwing tantrums until OM is OUT of her system. It will take at LEAST THREE MONTHS of no contact between them before you begin to see her normal again.
Her hormones are all out of balance from infidelity.. Keep the pressure on so she knows you aren't kidding. She IS going to try to play you and keep it a secret.
I did that to my husband for god knows how long, until I finally took his asserting his rights seriously.
THIS is the TIME to make sure she knows you mean it. If you issue this to her last night and do NOTHING today she will not take anything you say seriously after that.
you have to show her you are serious until she follows through and ends her behavior.
180's are not going to end an affair TT.
Divorce Remedy even warns you that once any addictive/obsessive behavior has started the person acting on that behavior must suffer some major loses before they start to turn their life around.
I can speak from experience on that one. I was the cheater in my home and my husband did 180s left and right and I never even noticed them.
Once he started packing, calling lawyers, and began to inconvenience me was when I started to reconsider my behavior.
shelly, I agree that 180's by themselves wouldn't "end an affair", but throwing her out of the house isn't going to solve their problems either. it would just make the problems worse and harder to solve.
from other things that MJ's wife has said, which I quoted in my response above, there are things that he needs to do in changing himself before he can expect his wife to leave OM. this is not just an affair with one predatory OM - she has said clearly that if it were not this one it would be another. this is not just "affair fog" but a cry for help - and he needs to respond if he wants to save his marriage.
he needs to find out if she has *legitimate* gripes (not just "rewriting history" but things that he really does need to do better) and he needs to address them.
First off thank you guys for the responses, and support, I really appreciate all input at this point. TT, I haven't been posting here a lot if details of the relationship over the last year since I read DR but I've been doing as SS implied the "180's left and right". I knew when the affairs began I was not just a victim, that I was no longer the young stud she married, but I've been focusing on myself the last six months especially.
Initially I was doing the GAL and 180 steps to elecit a response from her which she could see, and only seemed to make things worse. But since then I've made some big steps towards improving myself: great new job, spending time with friends and family, not doing things just to please her, etc. When I did break down and snooped on her (mistake I know) I found out her affair had become more intense than ever, and she'd just gone more underground with it.
I know that kicking her out seems harsh but I really was just trying to set a boundary that I was not interested in being a babysitter while she snuck out to carry on a PA with OM. I explained I had no desire to separate but her behavior was not acceptable to me anymore.
To clarify when she said she wouldn't see the OM anymore and we could stay together and be miserable, it was just her throwing her tantrum not a serious response. She has no intention of cutting it off with him, she literally thought I would just let her live with me until she could sort out a way to leave for him. Sad thing is he is blatantly using her for the sex only and is not interested in a real relationship.
At first I was going to just serve her papers and ask her to leave when I found out the extent of her affair as of late, but I felt this was me being reactive and chicken. This talk was about me doing the opposite of my past behavior and taking a stand for myself and our family.
This is killing me but I believe it may be the only way to snap her back to reality. I'm open to hearing what you all have to say I don't take any of it personally, this is the hardest thing I've ever done but that also makes believe its right, if that makes any sense.
Great thread, for someone who's always struggled to define boundaries this is gold. I believe I appropriately set the groundwork now it's down to me following through when I need to while continuing to wrk on myself.
Ok so status update. Things have been surprisingly ok since the talk we had and I've been just trying to not focus on her as much and just keep moving on with my GAL and 180 stuff. last week though things went back to her old shenanigans of taking of one night and sleeping somewhere and refusing to say where she went.
Then she gets invited on a last minute trip to the coast with some acquaintances and I said ok and agreed to watch he four kids for the weekend. Not really a big deal for me I love having the kids to myself. I figure I'll deal with her behavior when he gets home.
She returned today and it was apparent she was off a bit. Long story short we talked tonight and she informed me she's still miserable, doesn't feel that she's in a real marriage shes just here and playing nice to get what she wants from me because she has nowhere to go and she hates herself for it. She still wants out. And refuses to talk about what he did wn she took off last week.
Now I listened to her but now I'm having these conflicting feelings. I'm hearing that she's miserable and I've learned how I've played a part in all this but I now I'm fixing things as best I can (new job, fixing finances, being my own man, etc) but I can see where her behavior is heading. I want to just up my head down and keep working on me but if she's f'ng around again I have to cut her loose. I don't have proof she did again but I can check her phone if I have too. Just getting so sick of all his BS.
Things have been surprisingly ok since the talk we had and I've been just trying to not focus on her as much and just keep moving on with my GAL and 180 stuff.
...
I've learned how I've played a part in all this but I now I'm fixing things as best I can (new job, fixing finances, being my own man, etc)
very good, keep up the good work
last week though things went back to her old shenanigans of taking of one night and sleeping somewhere and refusing to say where she went.
...
Long story short we talked tonight and she informed me she's still miserable, doesn't feel that she's in a real marriage shes just here and playing nice to get what she wants from me because she has nowhere to go and she hates herself for it.
hmm, cake eating, and she admits it. what things does she get from you?
agreed to watch he four kids for the weekend. Not really a big deal for me I love having the kids to myself.
that's very good. of course, taking care of your kids is a favor to them, not her (and your responsibility, especially if she is neglecting them). besides which, you are building a good relationship with them, and they will see that you were there for them when she was not. also, being a good father to her/your kids is very attractive to a woman, even if she is in a fog right now.
She still wants out. And refuses to talk about what he did wn she took off last week.
...
if she's f'ng around again I have to cut her loose.
question is, what do you mean by "cut her loose"? I don't recommend throwing her out of her own home, because that could backfire. (if she has "nowhere else to go" she might just move in with OM, and justify this by blaming you as the "bad guy" who threw her out - no matter that it was well deserved.)
however, you certainly want to avoid things that enable her infidelity. what things can you refrain from doing for her?
in the meantime, keep up the good work of GAL and improving yourself. you're not doing it "for her". you're doing it because *you are the better choice*.
I appreciate the positive input, it's easy to get discouraged during this long process. Those of us who've been cheated on can relate to this, i've got that gut feeling that she's reconnecting with OM. I hate having to snoop to prove it I'm just lost right now. When I say cut her loose I absolutely mean kick her out. Her mother, father, grandparents all live in town and her mom (who's aware of the affairs) has said she could stay with her but kids would have to stay with me. I just not sure how else to enforce the boundary.
I'm not perfect but I'm not a doormat either. I ask myself if my son or daughters came to me with my problem Id question their sanity for putting up with what I have.
If you are going to let her stay, you can't snoop and you can't ask about the relationship. It's incredibly unfair, but she needs to get there on her own. If you apply any pressure, she'll never notice your 180's and not applying pressure is usually a 180 in itself.
I get wanting her to move out if the affair continues. My ex and I were in the same place. She "ended" it when I found out and 3 weeks later I found that they were still talking. I told her that I couldn't live with that and she had to leave or stop all communication. She's been gone for 6 weeks and we barely speak.
Having her move out is a risk. However in my situation, I'm glad I did. I feel better about myself and the stress levels in the house have almost disappeared. She was difficult to live with over the last few months and the kids and I are closer than ever, I've lost weight, started reconnecting with friends, etc. Just know that having her leave could mean the end of everything. If it is something that you need to do for yourself, to heal, then do it. Just give yourself time to be sure. You can always get her to move out, it's very hard to get her to move back in.
Hi Mighty and Mileus, I am in the same situation. My H is with the ow right now, I feel certain. He is out of town for work and it is the city where OW lives. I also don't want to be a doormat, let him cake eat, But I am not ready to LRT yet either. It is so hard. We have been separated since sept. He came back home for 2 weeks in Feb. only to later tell me he was just going thru the motions. He told me he was still in an EA with OW. I have asked nothing further about ow although that is hard too.Trying to detach. Have been doing all the GAL and focusing on me and kids. Such unnecessary pain.
Mileus if MJ's wife is going to stay, she must
a. end the affair
b. make all communication systems available
FULL transparency is a requirement of couples repairing from infidelity. Mileus SHOULD be checking up regularly.
SNOOPING has negative connotations. PROTECTING the MARRIAGE is what's going on, not "snooping."
If his wife is not willing to offer full transparency of communication systems, then she LEAVES.
Keep secrets from your spouse, and you are on the curb.
SS, I have a question (as a newbie trying to understand all of this) If his wife is going to stay, why must she end the affair and make all communication systems available? I understand why she would have to do that if she wanted to stay but if she doesn't, he and still wants to work on it, isn't he supposed to worry about himself right now and making himself the "better option" as opposed to making demands she doesn't want to meet? Thank you, some of this feels like it applies to me even though there is no active A at this time.
isn't he supposed to worry about himself right now and making himself the "better option" as opposed to making demands she doesn't want to meet?
I have a different perspective than most here, I am the cheater in my marriage. I cheated on my husband. I ended the affair, I reconciled.
LTH, being the better option, does not mean being a doormat.
What kind of woman is going to return to a doormat? No one. In my opinion you need to find a healthy balance between being a doormat, and being a bully.
There are active and direct things a man or woman can do to combat marital interlopers. Simply doing some personal housecleaning is not in my opinion everything that can be done. Make plans : call a lawyer to find out your rights, setup a separate bank account to protect yourself financially, start packing you belongings, if you have children begin drafting a separation agreement yourself, etc.
The idea is to show your spouse that you mean business and will not tolerate being humiliated and disrespected.
Until my husband began to speak up for himself, I had zero respect for him, and had no interest in returning.
I had no business cheating on him in the first place. But the fact is, people who are addicted to an affair aren't going to think morally. We think practically when we are cheating. And practically speaking, no woman will likely return to the home or the arms of a man that allows a woman to disrespect him like this.
Once my husband began respecting himself enough to speak up, I began respecting HIM again. It wasn't long after that, that I recognized him as the better man and saw OM for what he was : a disrespectful interloper who was just using me.
Being the better option does not mean being a doormat. In DR MWD discusses LRT in detail. In my opinion in many cases on this forum LRT is long overdue. And from my personal experience it's
the most effective tactic in her book.