I'm starting a new thread. I'm not sure how much more I'll post, but everyone on this board has been so supportive and helpful. I truly appreciate it.
My H has been in an affair for the past year (started in July 2011). I found out within 6 weeks and confronted him. He admitted it but wouldn't give it up. He went through months of indecision before I filed in March of 2012. H finally moved out of the house in July 2012. His OW lives 2,000 miles away in a city where he goes for work almost every week (and many weekends)
Our marriage had "flat-lined" and we were mismatched in terms of sex. H wanted a lot, I was comfortable with an average amount. We were also conflict avoiders and had a lack of true intimacy. I had also lost myself and wasn't happy.
I think the fact that H has now moved out of the house has been a good reality for him. He has made several comments to me over the past week about how he appreciates me and how he wishes he could see me more and our family could do things together. "I like watching you with the girls and you are such a good mom".
I told him that was nice, but I am trying to build my own life and need space and time to do that. I like doing things as a family too, but if we really want to be a family, then we should decide to work on our marriage.
He isn't saying he wants to give up the affair and his work is crazy...I'm not seeing what I need in order for me to consider having him come back. I think he just wants to continue to keep his options open.
I'm continuing to GAL and focus on myself. I'ts all I can do and frankly, I was running the other night with my new dog (yey!) and felt happier than I have felt in years. Considering I was ready to have a mental breakdown in the fall...I've come a long way!
Good for you!
I'm not seeing what I need in order for me to consider having him come back. I think he just wants to continue to keep his options open.
It's good for you to be clear on what it would look like if he WAS serious about reconciling. He'd drop her like a hot potato, give you access to his phone and email accounts, be willing to date you without pressuring you to take him back into the house, etc etc etc. It can be good to form a mental (or written) list so that you don't confuse vague, "keeping his options open" "I just want to eat cake" behaviors with true attempts at reconciliation.
(Btw, I'm not judging one way or another the likelihood of that happening. Your H was able to live in fantasyland for so long, he's only now dealing with reality, and sometimes that really snaps them out of it. But I recommend you keep enforcing those boundaries - nice job, btw - unless he shows you clearcut evidence of sincere intent. And even then, you'd be well within your rights to say "No, I'm over it" if that's what you want to do. )
Yes, if he really valued me and wanted me back...at a minimum, he'd tell me he was going to try to end the affair. I need the affair to end, no contact, full transparency, and an agreement to work on our marriage. I also probably need some changes in his job, but would focus on the affair first.
The counselor we talked to kids thought H would need 3 months on his own before he'd know what he wants.
I honestly don't know what I'd say if he wanted to try. Part of me would feel guilty not trying given the kids. Part of me feels done. I guess I don't need to worry about that until we would ever get there.
It's "funny" that one of my fears now is that his A ends and he wants to come back. I almost don't want to deal with having to decide what to do.
Lol - yes, I'd be really bummed now if my ex ever tried to come back. I'm so over him. But luckily for me, he seems quite happy with his new fiancee (she came along about a year after our split - not a/the OW) and that's just fine by me.
Use this time to have fun and rediscover yourself. You may find that you'd given up so much of yourself taking care of him and his moods, that you're happier now with your life under your own direction again.
Nb,
Thanks for the update! I'm so glad to hear you are doing well.
Although the circumstances of your h's and my h's (former) affair are different, there are some similarities, especially with what is going on with your situation now. My h's affair continued off and on for a few years. As I've explained to you before, he put me through hell and back during those years. It was only when I truly let him go, made him leave our home and accepted that the marriage was over AND he had to live life away from me and a few nights each week away from the kids (therefore losing that "family" time) that he was able to fully grasp what he was throwing away. During that time that he was out of the house, I really focused on making me a better and happier person. I took my focus away from him entirely, and my only relationship goal was simply to have a healthy co-parenting relationship with him. Otherwise, I didn't really care to talk to or think about him. As much as separation stinks at first and is hard for the kids, it really helped me with detaching. And trust me, he noticed (not that I cared) that I was changing and HAPPY for the first time in years. AND it was without him in my life.
I think your counselor is pretty spot on about the 3 months, although it may be shorter or longer. I think at first the WAS enjoys their new freedom, but it does get old and lonely after awhile. Like you, I was starting to enjoy MY freedom and the relief from no longer desperately trying to hold on to something that was no longer there, and he was becoming more and more miserable. I wasn't sure if I wanted my h back either, but at the end of the day, I knew in my heart I wasn't completely done. I, too, felt I owed it to my children to at least give things another try, but with some pretty strict rules and boundaries in place. I am beyond thrilled that things between us are going strong for 9-10 months now, but I also know that had our reconciliation not worked, I'd be thriving as well.
Yes, if there is a question of possible reconciliation on down the road for you and your h, there will need to be some strict boundaries established and enforced by you, including NC of any kind with ow and complete transparency. I also think he would need to change jobs in order to fully honor that. However, you can cross that bridge when or if you get there.
In the meantime, enjoy yourself. You are doing great, and I am so happy you are happy. Take care, and update when you can.
hugs, ncl
PS...for what it's worth, for some reason I just feel that your h's relationship with ow is going to fizzle out. I'm not trying to give you false hope nor am I trying to tell you to wait on him. If it does eventually end for whatever reason(s), I hope for his sake that you are still around. He is losing so very much in a wife and mother to his kids in you.
I think H is having a hard time. He was just here for 8 days (in his new place) and to me, he's acting "odd".
For example, we were discussing Facebook at my D9's birthday party on Saturday. Back in January, I changed my profile picture to just be of me. H still has a picture of me and him as his profile picture. He's basically stopped using FB, so he could simply claim he just hasn't bothered updating it. Instead he said he hasn't changed his photo like I've changed mine "I'm not as over you as you seem to be over me". I didn't respond.
He's trying to be nice and offering to do random things around the house. I can't tell if he's just trying to alleviate his guilt or if he's really having some change of heart.
I think I should keep ignoring these signs unless he does or says something more significant? I'm just basically being "pleasant" around him. He can see I'm GAL-ing but I'm not really doing any 180s anymore. (mostly because I've gone dark and am detached)
I guess I just wait and see what happens. I'm going to continue living life for me and I won't worry about him.
I'm just frustrated that if he does have a change of heart--he's done and said so many hurtful things, I've started to move on, and we've both told several people about OW.
I would be curious to know if some of the luster is gone in his relationship with OW. He's in a tough spot because his friends and family have always all liked me...I'm sure they'd eventually adjust to her...but I doubt there will be quick acceptance...
I keep saying I feel like I'm on a rollercoaster. I'm trying to enjoy it...I guess it's better than spending life waiting in line. :-)
Maybe just ask him, "Is this about my Facebook status, or is there something more significant you'd like to say to me? Because this stuff is all kind of childish, and -- frankly -- unattractive."
(or something similar)
Unless and until he's ready to re-commit to the marriage, he really doesn't get to tell you how to live your life . . . or your FB page.
Starsky
It's not very attractive! It's actually kind of mopey.
He's gotten much better about leaving me alone...although there's still a feeling of manipulation that I get. And, he's very curious. I'm going to a charity event on Friday with a new friend (a woman) and I can tell he's suspicious.
Sounds like you are doing a good job of detaching and GALing Nblsost. My H and I lived in limbo land like that for a while too. Until I actually moved on in my heart and mind and starting planning my life without him, he finally woke up and realized he would lose me forever. Until then, he was playing me and the OW keeping his options open. In my opinion, he needs to feel like you have moved on and he has lost you. When that happens you will know, because he will do ANYTHING to keep you, including no contact with OW, full transparency, changing jobs, etc.
Sounds like you are doing a good job of detaching and GALing Nblsost. My H and I lived in limbo land like that for a while too. Until I actually moved on in my heart and mind and starting planning my life without him, he finally woke up and realized he would lose me forever. Until then, he was playing me and the OW keeping his options open. In my opinion, he needs to feel like you have moved on and he has lost you. When that happens you will know, because he will do ANYTHING to keep you, including no contact with OW, full transparency, changing jobs, etc.
Man, if I have read this (or something very close to it) on here once, I've read it 500 times . . .
That's how it works, folks.
Starsky
he needs to feel like you have moved on and he has lost you. When that happens you will know, because he will do ANYTHING to keep you, including no contact with OW, full transparency, changing jobs, etc.
^^^^ this!!!! This is exactly how it works!!!
Sounds like you are doing a good job of detaching and GALing Nblsost. My H and I lived in limbo land like that for a while too. Until I actually moved on in my heart and mind and starting planning my life without him, he finally woke up and realized he would lose me forever. Until then, he was playing me and the OW keeping his options open. In my opinion, he needs to feel like you have moved on and he has lost you. When that happens you will know, because he will do ANYTHING to keep you, including no contact with OW, full transparency, changing jobs, etc.
Man, if I have read this (or something very close to it) on here once, I've read it 500 times . . .
That's how it works, folks.
Starsky
Yep...that's how it worked in my situation, too!
Nb, you are doing a great job! Just keep taking things day by day and don't worry too much with what-ifs right now (I know...easier said than done). You have taken control of your personal life and are living it to the fullest. If he decides to recommit, the ball is in your court on if he fits into your new and improved life.
Best wishes to you, ncl
you folks keep this up and they will start the next culling.... which is so sad.
As this is truly what DB is about.
Employing tough love.
When I read her books this is what I get out of it.
Somehow it has been twisted on her forums. Which is unfortunate.
Well, at a MINIMUM, DBing is -- at its very core -- "Do what works."
And when there is infidelity involved . . . this works.
Starsky
Well, at a MINIMUM, DBing is -- at its very core -- "Do what works."
And when there is infidelity involved . . . this works.
Starsky
Yup. Do what works. And... if what you are doing isn't working, try something different...
From a LBS focused perspective, do what works... FOR YOU...
you folks keep this up and they will start the next culling.... which is so sad.
As this is truly what DB is about.
Employing tough love.
When I read her books this is what I get out of it.
Somehow it has been twisted on her forums. Which is unfortunate.
I don't think the views expressed here are inconsistent with DB. When you boil it all down and put the plethora of techniques MWD advocates into practice ... Tis is what u get.
Detachment is key to DBing. MWD advocates detaching as a strategy to allow us to focus on ourselves and what we need rather than obsessing about what the spouse is up to. Detaching helps us get to a place where we can see and control those things that are within our control (ourselves & our own behavior) and those which are outside our control (everything & everyone else!).
GAL - Getting a Life ... Another fundamental DB principle which is all about putting the focus back on yourself. Of course the consequence of GAL is often that you become more attractive to the WAS, The mystery may stir a little bit of jealosy and early on I think GAL can b confused with getting a reaction, but applied consistently GAL helps us remember or learn who we are and what drives us outside of the marriage relationship.
I could go on, but you guys know what I mean? Yes? Traveling through a marriage crisis and using the principles MWD espouses, changing our relationship by changing ourselves, often does mean we come to understand that we'll be ok married to our partner or not. We come to understand our own value and can hold out for it. When we learn that kind of respect for ourselves ... Well, the rest just kind of falls into place.
I really love reading all this advise it sounds so great. But I am scared to death, I don't make enough $ to support me and my two girls still home. I have to talk to him, I have get money from him. How I do I distance myself?
The last "culling" as you put it, concerned the issue of exposure. Sometimes exposure works, sometimes it doesn't. But what happened was that there were a few members who adamantly believed that exposure was the way to go and were sometimes rude to the posters who didn't want to go that route. Which was a shame because I learned alot of other things from those posters as well.
I have seen the last 2 cullings here and they were more of an issue between 2 groups of posters on this site. Which has been an issue for many years....
I think if the cheater doesn't end the affair once it's out in the open...it's very hard to predict how any strategy will work.
So, H had the kids from Friday evening to Saturday evening. I had a couple plans with friends, went to a farmers market, did a run, etc. While he had them, he texted to tell me that OW and her kids will be in town in a few weeks. Could he take our kids to meet her and her kids at an amusement park? I said we needed to talk about it...of course when he dropped off the kids, he ran out without a word. He also asked if "we" could buy a boat to keep at his new place (share it with a friend). I said, "are you saying I would buy it with you?" He said "No, I just wanted to run it by you".
I'm not in favor of him introducing the kids to OW, but I am also not sure how long I can stop it or that he won't do something else that's dumb around it. I may also use it as leverage to help us get things negotiated more quickly.
So, as much as he seems "mopey", he's moving on. Frankly, I'm okay with it. I'm tired of the weirdness and drama.
My answer to that would be NO.
And if he said he was... Then I would have my lawyer talk to his lawyer about NO CONTACT CLAUSE. EMOTIONAL ABUSE. ETC...
Provide links to reports and then one would hope his lawyer will say. Ummm.... I recommend you do not do this until the D is Final.
Very hard to enforce legally (but I agree with Cutter -- I would try anyway).
I'd suggest "Let's run it by a family therapist, as these kinds of things -- helping the kids deal with divorce -- is something I'm sure we can both agree is of utmost importance going forward."
No good FT worth their salt is going to think it's soon enough for the kids to be introduced to OW and her kids!!!
Starsky
Some times you can beat them with how they appear to look. Like if our friend here was going to push for full custody. Or hint that it may happen.
The lawyers talk. And our wayward gets a lecture from his lawyer at the tune of 400 dollars about not doing anything stupid like this as it will not look good in front of the judge.
A little bit of reality as OW and her kids need to travel 2200 miles.
I also think that this a good time as any to take all the children's identification and if there are passports. Keep them under your safe keeping.
And I would look at getting a 50 mile rule put in place. People in affairs will do stupid things. Such as this introduction.
Just protect yourself and your children.
As this is a long distance one.
I am just thinking of the big picture and some of the upcoming moves.
>.. EDIT BUTTON.... BACK PLEASE
Thanks guys. A few things:
--We have met with a counselor who had excellent advice on why the kids meeting the OW now would be a BAD idea. He told H to move out of the house to at least start the process of having the kids understand our marriage is ending. (and I believe to make H start experiencing reality). That was in response to H wanting to take the kids to OW's city. This new amusement park idea in our city seems like a "light" version of what H was thinking before.
I continue to think this is a bad idea until we are at least divorced. I just need to decide my response and how to get that across to H. Frankly, the counselor was mainly worried about the kids relationship with H and OW if they introduce the relationship to the kids too soon. I'm more worried about protecting my girls from H's behavior and protecting their view of marriage.
--H doesn't have a lawyer yet. He hasn't made any response to my divorce filing (although our 6 month clock in California is ticking and is up in September)
--My divorce filing says H can't take the kids out of state without permission and he has respected that. You'd have to know H...but I'm not worried about him taking the kids. He has a high profile job and wouldn't want the kids more than he has them now. He has been unwilling to opt for any custody at all--he likes his flexibility.
--The dynamic that I don't understand is that he's met OW's kids (s10, s10, and d13). I'm sure they know he has kids and so it's got to be a little "weird" that his kids are nowhere to be seen. He's been with OW for a year and I think they are more "out of the closet" in her world. For example, she threw a birthday party for him last month.
Ugh.
You may find out he will opt for them based on a formula.
I get them this amount of time = pay less support.
Then he will roll in with the excuses of why he cannot be with them.
Chatterbug,you could be right...he has a vague notion of what he'll owe in child support (he's paying about that much right now to me by paying most of the rent and utilities on my house). But, when he starts to see the "savings" related to having them more...he may change his tune.
His whole life feels unsustainable unless I cave in and move back to OW's city.
which if I was you I would not do.
He is a grown adult. He can full on experience the consequences of his poor actions.
Why would you sacrifice yourself ? This whole thing goes down now or in a few years. It is far better for you and your children to be brought up in a house that is full of love and honesty than for them to watch their mother waste away to support the habits of a cheating part time husband. You would turn him into a wallet. And no doubt you would live a depressing life of being on the shelf. Possibly medicated.
Best to stand up to this now.
WEll, since he's gone most of the time, I don't see how he can get enough custody to significantly change child support.
I certainly wouldn't move to OW's city unless there is some reason YOU want to do so. No need to risk running into them at the grocery store, plus uprooting your kids will add to their sense of dislocation.
As for your kids meeting OW's kids - now that your H has moved out and the kids know you are going to get divorced, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Yes, the kids might resent H and/or OW - not your problem! And it might be the dose of reality that it takes for H and OW's Brady Bunch fantasy to implode. (Keep your kids up real late and feed them lots of candy before you send them, lol). I am envisioning a scene from the movie She Devil, where Roseanne Barr burns down her house and then drops her kids off with her ex at his OWs house, thereby throwing a total monkey wrench into their romantic fantasy. All those kids bickering with each other and fighting for attention might pour some cold water on the whole deal.
I'm not moving any time soon. And H would rather live in my city, but his work is primarily in OW's.
I'm in CA. OW is in a cold, midwestern city. The "ironic" thing is that I'm from there, and we lived there for our entire marriage until 2 years ago. So, I have friends and extended family there. And, I'm currently living in one of the most expensive cities in the US--so at some point, I could have a much nicer house, etc. if I moved. I could also return to my former job in that city.
However, now, that place is "tainted" by OW and I have no desire at all to feed into H's choices and make things easy for him.
I'm sort of in agreement with you about the kids, kml. I also just think it's a matter of time before they discover something or he does something else that's stupid. But, I'll express my reservations to him and I am also going to push to settle our finances right now.
Not tainted by OW..... She can never taint your family , friends and the dinners and drive'in's you went to.
WEll, don't bite off your nose to spite your face. If moving home would afford you a better lifestyle, more friend and family support (free babysitters!), and you could return to your old job (if you liked it) - don't turn it down just because it would happen to be more convenient for ex too.
OTOH - who wants to leave California for the frozen midwest? lol
Nblost -
I really feel for you. This is a very tough stage in the separation / OW saga.
My husband has been with his OW for over a year now. They are now open and are slowly introducing each other to the kids.
Him exposing OW to mine, who are 4, 3 and 1 has been a constant source of arguments. I feel like they are so young and can't even comprehend what a marriage and separation is, much less what a girlfriend is.
I, like you, also want to protect them and their view of marriage.
The truthis that H is doing what he wants and will continue to do so. My fighting it has only hurt our R and interactions and kept me resentful and in victim mode.
It's better to let it go. Maybe the Brady Bunch reality will hit them hard, maybe it will work out for them.
Out of your control. Focus on being the best mom you can and giving your kids an example on the things you can control.
As for finances, my H also asked for more custody once he saw what he would pay in alimony and child support. (we are also in CA). It was so sad to me... I saw his financial motivation clearly.
Yet he is now really invested back in their lives and I believe he thinks that with OW's help, he can truly do joint custody, so he is going for that. Double win for him - he has a new family with OW and he gives me less money.
So don't be surprised if he changes his mind about that.
Hang in there. This is all ugly stuff - I know first-hand. I so wished you didn't have to go thru it.
(((hugs)))
OW and her kids are likely here now (in my city at H's new place). We had a text conversation about my kids meeting up with them and he could barely discuss it. He said he could say the OW and her kids were "just friends" of his and were visiting. I asked if her kids knew that OW and H were dating and he said "yes". He then added that OW had told her kids not to tell my kids about their dating. I told him I wasn't comfortable with my kids being around people who were covering something up from them. I did add that I appreciated him asking me.
He responded later to say he knows this is difficult.
That's the last we've corresponded. So, as far as I know, he's with OW and her kids and will be leaving us alone. It's sad to think that he's here and not seeing his kids...but it's better this way. Like our counselor said...my kids have barely seen him leave the house and we haven't told them we are divorcing.
I do really question OW's character--they are both still married and I just wouldn't be comfortable bringing my kids into it. But, that's her deal.
Part of me actually wishes my kids would meet OW and we could just clear the air. But, it's not worth the risk of how hurt and upset they might be. They think H is gone all the time for work...not to spend time with a new woman and her kids.
Keep_going...hang in there. Your kids are small and a ton of work...I can't imagine. You are so strong!!!
Do not cover for his lies ever. Do not cushion him from any consequences of his actions. Ever. Doing so says to D11 , D9 that it is ok to keep secrets. That it is ok to Break vows and betray. That it is ok to be treated this way by a man.
D11 and D9 already know something is up. This will really mess them up meeting up with Daddies friend with kids.
They are going to be more hurt in the long run with you keeping this from them.
Families are build around truth , responsibilities ,openness and trust.
Not only will they be grieving the loss of the marriage.
But they will also be grieving the loss of a person they thought was perfect.
You can attempt to shield them from this but it will unravel. They can either find out from you who loves them. Or when they watch that horrible woman interact with their father.
I think you do not need to question OW's character.
She is a poor excuse of a human being. Who would do that to her family and yours.
that was a little harsh. Sorry nblost.... I think your words hit a trigger for me.
I was thinking back to when ladybug actually told people that her plan was to be just the friend , build trust and then come between the mother and daughters. And saw nothing wrong with that.
Triggers.
I would have made it clear to H that I felt it was VERY INAPPROPRIATE for OW to ask her kids to lie.
(Although I still would have kept my kids up half the night before, loaded them up with soda and candy, and then sent them off with H to meet OW and her kids, like ticking time bombs.....but then, I'm evil
)
Chatter, no problem.
I feel okay on this because we saw a counselor with 25 years of experience and everything he say rang true with me. His viewpoint is that my H needed to move out of the house (check), talk to the kids about how we are divorcing (not yet done), wait 6-8 months (not yet done), and then the kids are ready to meet OW. To do so earlier deprives them of their ability to adjust to our marriage ending and see that they can be okay with both mom and dad. Ideally, both parents show the kids that they will be fine with the separate families.
As much as I would like to have the kids meet OW to show them what a scum their dad is...that may really hurt them at this point. They will eventually know the truth but they don't need to know it now.
I have covered for him for a year...it is definitely getting old and trust me...I have triggers going off left and right.
Ha ha KML...that was very tempting!
My conversation with him was all via text. Who knows if OW really told her kids to lie or if he thought that was what I wanted to hear? I told him him I didn't want my kids around people who covering things up from them. If her kids were ready to cover it up...it's crazy. They are 10 (twins) and 13. Right around the ages of mine...
I think my biggest worry for my kids is for them to figure out he's establishing a relationship with a new set of kids. He's been home so little for the past year...I think that will hurt.
He's with OW and her three kids...I doubt everything is a bed of roses. But, that's his problem.
Nblost -
When H first announced that OW was going to spend the night at his place when he had the kids, he suggested that OW would pretend to leave for the night and come back after the kids had gone to sleep. She would also then leave in the AM before they woke up and pretend to arrive after they woke up.
I obviously told my H that I not only opposed her spending the night, but also having them lie to my kids on top of it. I then added that in the end, if he wanted to lie to his own children, to go ahead.
(OW didn't spend the night that time...)
My point is that I am not going to do anything to protect his R with his kids. Time has a way of putting things where they belong and sooner or later, your H's mistakes with his children will come back to haunt him.
Hang in there! I know you just want to protect your kids from all this junk.
(((Nblost)))
I found out OW and her kids are here for a week and I am leaving to go on a work trip on Wednesday. H was asking again about taking them to an amusement park with OW.
I ended up saying that he needs to decide. He said he respected my opinion and would listen to me. I said if it was up to me, I'd have him wait. However, I'm also tired of the lies and part of me thinks the kids will eventually find out anyway.
Anyway, he wants me to think about it, but as of now...I think he will take them to an amusement park with OW and her kids. He thinks he can keep it very casual and describe it as "just friends".
I feel like this is going to happen whether I like it or not...and part of me is just tired of it. I was very calm in our discussion.
I also feel like I'm so detached that I almost don't care and once he does this...I can move ahead with the divorce (I swear he still acts like he doesn't want a divorce in some odd way).
I just wish he could make my kids a priority. He's taking off most of this week to be with OW and her kids...but my kids have rarely seen him for more than a day or two...sad.
UGh. I'm sorry he's being such a doofus.
I'm with you, I don't think lying to the kids is a good idea. I'm sure they'll see through the "just friends" ruse in a minute. Even if they didn't think it was suspicious that daddy suddenly has this new woman friend they've never heard of, I'm sure H and OW won't be able to refrain from PDAs for a whole day. Plus how on earth could her kids keep their mouths shut all day, even if they were told to? Surely something would slip out about stuff that your ex has been doing with them, or about how much fun they had last time Ex slept over at their house, etc etc.
But you're also right - you can't keep it from happening forever, and actually, there is still a chance that the reality of dealing with all those kids together might cool off the fantasy a bit.
I suggest you explain to Ex what I just said, about how there is no way the kids won't figure it out, and suggest that he sit down with the kids ahead of time, explain that he is in a relationship with a new woman, and that he wants to take them to meet her and her kids. If they freak and give him a hard time about it - fine, he has to face reality. If they accept it, at least they'll go into the situation knowing what's going on so they won't feel even more betrayed when they figure it out.
Tell him to be a man and tell the kids ahead of time - in person.
Like that KML. But I am thinking that Nblost's husband has no concepts of reason, consequences, compassion and thinking.
He just wants to be with OW. He just wants to test the brady bunch in a way that he thinks will cause no drama. A simple step into the ocean. Fully backed by Nblost. So down the road he has a few excuse cards to play on his three daughters.
Quick update. I went on my work trip and H introduced the kids to OW and her three kids. They did a fun amusement park one day (stayed in separate rooms at a hotel) and then stayed at his place the next night. I got back on Friday night and apparently OW left on Friday afternoon. H then kept the kids for the weekend. He dropped them off last night and could barely look at me...we didn't even talk. The bits I know are just from the kids and a couple texts.
It was very hard for me to leave town not knowing what the kids would be doing or how H would introduce OW or how they would react. But, I guess I just keep surviving. It's just crazy to see people from work and not overreact when they ask "how are you?". My standard answer is "I'm fine"...when I feel like screaming. :-)
The kids mentioned meeting this family (OW's), but so far...haven't shared any odd reactions or concerns. I plan to just be open to hear them talk...but I don't want to question them or make them feel upset or worried like it was a big deal to me.
I had an a great weekend. I worked out and did several appointments on Saturday (facial, got a pedicure, etc) and then went out with the guy I met back in January on Saturday night. We have fun...we talk, laugh, and the chemistry is great. We're probably mutually rebounding...but I think we're being careful. We also have a good baseline of friendship and he respects me. I also hung out with him by his pool on Sunday. After a year without much of a break...so nice to feel some freedom.
NB,
I am sorry to hear that your H introduced the kids to OW. You knew this was going to happen sooner or later, so at least it's over. You don't need to stress about it, worry about it or fight it. It's time to let go of that. Concentrate on what you can control.
Glad to hear that you are keeping busy.
The only thing I really don't know what to say about is your new guy. I am very old fashioned and for me, dating while still married is just not an option. But please understand that I am not judging you here. I understand this is different for everyone and I respect that.
Should I infer that like since you have filed for D and are dating, you are done with your M?
If so, I am glad that you have found closure and are moving on with your life trying to make the best of it.
Keep us posted on your progress!
I do feel done. I guess I have detached to the point where if H ever came back and was truly ready to try to reconcile...I would consider it...but, until that happens, I'm fine getting divorced. I think it might be easier for me than other women because I'm financially stable without H and can continue to lead almost the same lifestyle as before. H has also been almost completely gone from my life for a year given his work travel and affair. I think Dr. Phil is the one who said something like, "why are you waiting for someone else to make you happy?"...it was time for me to take my life back and move on.
The kids did fine meeting OW and her kids--but they met them under the pretense that these were friends visiting from out of town. Last night, my middle daughter actually wrote an essay about going to Disneyland with them for school (fabulous!). My kids are now texting her kids as buddies. I hate the lies and I think there's a risk my kids will feel betrayed by him later...but I guess I'm trying to let it go.
I don't think it's right to date while married either. That said, I really don't feel married anymore. I guess my pastor was the one who put my finger on it...my H broke apart our marriage when he started his affair.
I think I just ended up finding a guy who fits into my life right now. I'm not in the mood for crazy one night stands and I'm not in the mood for a serious relationship (I've had enough relationship issues for awhile). For me, it's been validating and fun. I'm also being careful that this guy is just a minor part of my life--I'm continuing to build friendships and interests to support being single. For example, I'm likely going on 3 girls trips in the next six months.
Keep_going, I really feel for you given your situation and your young kids. You are in much harder place than me. I saw you are in SoCal...I wish we could meet!
You are one together woman NBlost. You continue to display dignity and calm acceptance for what is a very difficult time in your life.
You are a role model for how to cope with betrayal and you are absolutely right - none of us should put our live on hold waiting for someone else to make us happy.
Keep at it.
V
You are one together woman NBlost. You continue to display dignity and calm acceptance for what is a very difficult time in your life.
You are a role model for how to cope with betrayal and you are absolutely right - none of us should put our live on hold waiting for someone else to make us happy.
Keep at it.
V
Amen.
Nblost,
You are an inspiration!
I'm not sure I feel like an inspiration tonight...met with my attorney today. H hasn't responded to my divorce filing but I want to move forward. I have a few legal options but am going to try talking to H and proposing a settlement first.
I told H that I met with my attorney and he said "ok". He later said "I am so far behind on life and work. I suck". I didn't respond. (All via text)
Kids seem sad he hasn't been home for over three weeks. He's in OW's city. My middle one asked why he doesn't just move there.
I was on a girls trip last weekend and do feel blessed with friends. Work has been busy but overwhelming.
I'm tired of feeling this way.
Nblost,
So sorry you are going thru a rough patch. I know how it feels and I hope it has passed by now.
How was your weekend? Tell us about what went right these past couple of days. I want to know!
(((NBlost)))
KG,
Thanks for the hugs. I read your sitch and am glad you are finding strength!
I had a good weekend. I took 7 girls to the movies on Saturday night. After going to Vegas last weekend, it was nice to be home quite a bit this weekend and spend time with the kids. Yesterday, I went to a beach club with one of my friends and her family.
H had come home and was a bit shocked to know I'd made plans and the world didn't revolve around him...however, he took the youngest and did a couple things with her. We all met back up at my house in the evening and one of H's comments to the kids was, "When did Mom get so fun?"
He then took the kids to his place and I had a quiet night...very nice.
He's taking the kids again tonight and then he leaves again. He had just been gone for almost 4 weeks straight so it's sad he's only back for a day or so.
I still feel like I need to talk to H about the D filing. I guess I've reached the point where I don't like living like this and I'd rather just be divorced. :-(
I get that.
And remember - formalizing the divorce does NOT mean you can't get back together in the future. At this point, with him with the OW for so long, formalizing the divorce is just about freeing yourself.
(And possibly giving him an extra dose of reality)
H left again today for OW's city. (He came back Sunday after being there almost a full month straight)
He tries to avoid any discussions which helps me not get into R talks. However, I did call him today to tell him we need to talk about next steps in the divorce. Before we got into that, I clarified that he still wants to take the kids on vacation with OW for a week after Christmas--yep, he does. Okay, so I said I think we need to discuss splitting our assets. He agreed and we had a relatively good conversation about working together and avoiding tons of legal fees (we'll both have lawyers to protect ourselves but if we can agree to some things ourselves...much easier)
That all seemed good but H is acting sad. He said he could see why I needed to move on...making it sound like the divorce is all my idea. I guess it is...but he makes me feel bad about pushing for the divorce. If you've been following my sitch, I'm at the point where he's been openly having an affair for over a year.
I don't know how to feel. I still know I wouldn't take him back without the affair ending and his job changing dramatically--and he's not saying a word about changing any of that. I think he's still manipulating to stay on his fence. I think he hopes I'm still around if his affair would ever end.
Just had to vent...I have peaks and valleys and feel low today.
I think he hopes I'm still around if his affair would ever end.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
They just want to fly off into their fantasy world, but still have the little woman waiting at home in case they ever pull their head out of their arse.
And be prepared - when it comes to doing the paperwork involved in a divorce, you'll have to do most of it. Many WASs seem to believe in the "zipless divorce", like it will all get done by magic.
As for discussing division of property - be very careful here. You should not be having ANY discussions with H about this until you have consulted a lawyer first, and gotten a pretty good idea of what's fair.
Also - remember to ask for more than you want, so there's room to negotiate.
Hey, Nblost, how are things going with you?
I hope you're ok.
In fact, you're quite an inspiration for me.
God bless you
Overall, I'm doing okay. I feel like I'm rebuilding my life--trying new things, friends, etc. I'm really trying to focus on being healthy and being present for the kids.
H continues to be gone most of the time...comes home and acts very friendly to me...yet had OW here again a couple weeks ago and she stayed at his place when my kids were there. (He didn't tell me...the kids came back and mentioned she had been with them for the weekend). He's still passing her off as a "friend"...although I have a hard time believing my kids don't see through it.
Our divorce filing is just sitting. I've decided today that I need to move forward. I'm scared to be alone...I'm scared to push and have the divorce be "my fault"...I'm scared if I push him, he'll want to come back and I'm really not sure I want him back at all. (I don't want him back...but I have huge guilt around not trying on behalf of the kids)
He hasn't even hired a lawyer...so I think I'm going to send him a proposed split of our assets (I've been talking to my lawyer) and tell him what I'd like.
I anticipate he'll freak out...but my goal is to get divorced by the end of the year. I can't keep living like this.
Wish me luck...and if anyone has advice on staying strong...I'll take it.
At this point, the divorce is to protect you financially and allow you to date without guilt.
It does NOT mean he can't come back, and although I'm not sure why you would consider him at this point either, remember that divorce is a piece of paper that does not prevent reconciliation.
Also, as far as the kids go - although I understand the temptation to want to reconcile for their sake - I think, when the cat is out of the bag already as it is, it's not necessarily a completely positive outcome for the kids anymore. I think, even with a successful reconciliation, the kids are always waiting for the other shoe to fall (which, eventually, unfortunately, it did in my case). So a decisive end may actually help them move forward too at this point.
And I agree with you - no way they're not suspicious about daddy's "friend". But if you don't make a big deal about it, odds are they won't either.
(P.S. - incidentally, I just had a lovely weekend away with a man I know. He's too young for me to get serious about, but we really enjoy each other's company. And at times like that, I feel like sending my ex a thank you card for leaving me, lol!)
Thanks kml, your weekend sounds lovely. :-)
All great points, I appreciate it. In some ways too, I think I'm protecting his image with the kids more by pushing the divorce through. I think he'd be better served long-term if the kids think he had a "friend" who he started dating once we got divorced. That can't happen if we keep limping along.
I also just ordered a book on not being "too nice" and being more assertive.
I guess what I'm feeling is that DB-ing served it's purpose in keeping H partially engaged with me...and the detachment is key. But, I could get stuck in this detached waiting phase for what seems like forever if I don't push ahead? I guess this must happen to other people when they reach their limits and want to move on...maybe by then, they aren't on this website anymore.
You'll find a lot of them in Surviving the Big D lol.
some are there in surviving the big D. Some moved over to other sites such as marriage advocates and marriage warriors. Some have support groups on FB. We all keep in touch. This site like the others is smart in knowing that not all marriages can or should be saved so they offer a place for people to communicate on the next stage in life. But this site does not let people communicate directly with each other. I agree with their thoughts on this. This is a perfect ground for EA's to start due to everyone being so open and emotional here. I wish they would change the rules a little where if two members wanted to contact each other they could pm and ask and get each others contact.
I was realizing I should probably move over to surviving the big D. The affair piece of my situation has really faded into the background. At this point, I'm just trying to deal with H in a way that enables me to best move on with life.
Agreed on personal connections being a little dangerous on this forum...and I think it's nice that we can all post without worrying about any of that stuff.
I sent H a list of our assets last night and a proposed split. Not surprisingly, I got no response. The good news is, I really think we could divide things without it being too difficult.
Just an update. I'm on a flight back from a girls trip to SC...enjoyed myself and great to connect with an old girlfriend from college.
H had the kids. He hadn't been home for Thanksgiving (due to work) so he was looking forward to time with the kids. He volunteered to do a few things around my house for me while I was gone, so that was nice.
H is taking the kids on a 9-day trip after Christmas. I assume it's with OW since I doubt he'd take our 3 girls by himself. He hasn't told me where he is taking them yet although I assume it's out of state and so he will need my permission. He hasn't told the kids yet either. I am feeling very detached about the whole thing yet of course I am still somewhat worried about my kids (and they still don't understand his relationship with OW and her kids...) But, that's his problem.
H hasn't reacted to my propoosed asset split. I will likely need to force things through my attorney.
I am doing okay. There are still ups and downs...but I feel more and more like I am on the right path.
Hang in there everyone...definitely some hard situations on this board.
Quick update. I discovered some texts last night on my youngest daughter's phone (she shares an account with H). The texts were between H and OW. I'm really so far past the snooping phase that I just looked at them out of curiousity about their relationship. I won't confront him with any of this.
The texts were just from a 5 day period over Thanksgiving. The two of them had gotten into a fight after OW got drunk. She said some unforgiveable things to him...yet in the end, he forgave her. (She can't remember what she said and she didn't want him to tell her...so I don't know what it was). She texted suicidal thoughts to him in the aftermath and she just sounded like a ridiculously selfish woman.
I'm posting this just because in the height of the affair crap...it's so easy to believe the OP is better than you. From everything I have read, they usually are NOT...and I now really believe this about OW.
I'm glad I know she's selfish and pretty psycho...my kids went to Mexico with them for a week over Christmas...but I will be careful about letting my kids spend time with her. (Luckily, she lives 2,000 miles away).
Sadly, I can see a scenario where H wants back into the marriage (he has never actually wanted a divorce). I can't see a scenario where he is happy with her long-term. But, after 18 months of this? I really think it's too late. I guess it's possible that someday he could prove himself to me again...but I now know I deserve a lot better.
I hope everyone had a good holidays! I let H celebrate part of Christmas Eve and Christmas with us (me, my kids and my parents). Then he took the kids with him to visit OW and go to Mexico. I took a couple day trip with the guy I've been dating and then saw a number of friends. The day before H got back...I was out on a run by myself and truly felt the happiest I have felt in a very very long time. I really feel like I'm finding myself again.
There is hope...but this is a long road...
Some guys love drama and gravitate to women with the "crazy-eyes". Yuck!
My friend was dating a semi-famous guy who had a history of having dated famous crazy women in the past; it was funny, because he kept trying to make out her behavior as crazy or wild, when she's really quite down-to-earth and calm - but it was like he WANTED her to be a crazy woman.
Just a quick update...and maybe to give some of you hope...my H told me he broke up with OW last month. He now wants to try again...however, I think I am done. I guess for me the detachment phase worked too well and H seems like an immature kid. I am happier now than I was when we were together.
That said, I still wish we could be together for the kids and financially....but I think that desire is more based on fear than doing what is best for me.
If anyone remembers me...I'd be curious if my apathy surprises you.
I will say its nice if/when the affair ends just to know it was all ridiculous.
And, no regrets on confronting, filing for divorce and drawing boundaries...you have to have respect for yourself for your spouse to ever respect you again.
Hmmm, very interesting nblost. Even though my H is still in the A right now, I find myself with a little case of apathy too.
Because he is not the person I remember or would want to be with right now because of his behavior, i.e. immature kid, not appealing.
I don't think it's unusual as you are trying to protect your heart and feelings. H would need a lot of work before I would consider being together again. Too many things we both need to work on as a couple.
Maybe a vet will post with some better insight. I am glad you are at a better place - sounds wonderful.
And, no regrets on confronting, filing for divorce and drawing boundaries...you have to have respect for yourself for your spouse to ever respect you again.
Yes, you do, Nb, as you still have to live with YOURSELF, no matter what happens with your MARRIAGE. I respect your stance.
Try to give grace to your husband, and leave the door open. Somewhere down the road, he may begin to show himself to be a man of consistent character and quality again, and who knows?? Maybe you'll feel differently then.
But no, it doesn't surprise me. This forum (and others) is littered with the stories of LBH spouses who eventually became the walkaway ones, as their spouse's infidelity caused them to lose all remaining respect for them. Marriages harmed by infidelity can -- and do -- turn around (mine did), but most with unrepentant affairs that last much beyond six months or so seem to do irreparable damage to the marriage, at least in the immediate term.
Starsky
Ive been all over the place, not sure where to post. I've known about H's A a year plus now. not sure how long it was going prior to BD. We are separated. he does his thing. I do the kids. I've been lied to. I have kept things amicable for the kids. Recently told H,I will no longer make excuses to kids why h doesn't call them back or text.usually, I'll say well dad is working or you will have to ask him. our youngest is handicapped so (I think) h will stay in the picture but of course it is already becoming less and less. have not instituded a visitation schedule. My next step. Getting tired of the disrespect, disregard, h has shown our family.
BTW, I am GAL's. I have great friends and a great, supportive family. I am taking classes. I pray and am spiritual. I see an IC. all the right things...
Ive been all over the place, not sure where to post. I've known about H's A a year plus now. not sure how long it was going prior to BD. We are separated. he does his thing. I do the kids. I've been lied to. I have kept things amicable for the kids. Recently told H,I will no longer make excuses to kids why h doesn't call them back or text.usually, I'll say well dad is working or you will have to ask him. our youngest is handicapped so (I think) h will stay in the picture but of course it is already becoming less and less. have not instituded a visitation schedule. My next step. Getting tired of the disrespect, disregard, h has shown our family.
WBW, do you have your own thread someplace? I don't want to hijack Nb's here, but I certainly wouldn't advise you to lie to your children. The two oldest, especially.
"I have decided that I am no longer willing to lie to cover up your affair" was my stance, and the stance I recommend to others. That doesn't have to mean proactive exposure --
which is against DB/MWD teaching -- but more about not lying if your adult (or near-adult) children ask you a straight-up question.
Tough stuff.
Starsky
I heard a lot of affairs will not last longer than one year, and most affairs will not end up with marriage. Is it true?
I heard a lot of affairs will not last longer than one year, and most affairs will not end up with marriage. Is it true?
Most don't, however:
I've seen wildly conflicting data on this, and it's debated pretty thoroughly on this forum over the years. No one's really sure where the "most affairs last six months" claim comes from. I think perhaps one-night stands are factored into that, so that probably pulls the averages downward.
I try to focus on how much emotional, financial and even medical carnage can be wrought each month the affair continues, and how much the emotional bond deepens, when encouraging betrayed spouses to fight like h*ll for their marriages.
Starsky
I believe I read somewhere in Shirley Glass'
Not Just Friends book that affair partners who marry each other and have long lasting marriages are only in the 3% range of success. It is a minuscule success rate, if at all.
No wonder it is best to ride out your WAS' affair...and let it die a natural death.
I believe I read somewhere in Shirley Glass'
Not Just Friends book that affair partners who marry each other and have long lasting marriages are only in the 3% range of success. It is a minuscule success rate, if at all.
No wonder it is best to ride out your WAS' affair...and let it die a natural death.
There are two very different schools of thought on this. Those who believe that affairs are highly addictive (and I am in this camp) correctly point out "How many addictions are you aware of that, if you just leave them alone, they will go away on their own?" Don't in fact most ESCALATE?
I'm not a big fan of the "Little Bo-Peep" approach, as I guess you can tell.
The problem with the "3%" figure (and that sounds a smidge low to me, but let's assume it's correct) doesn't account for OM/OW #2, OM/OW #3, etc. Long-term successful relationships coming out of illicit affair partnerships might be very LOW, but the recidivism rate for more infidelity is quite HIGH.
Put more simply,
they may not stay with their OM/OW #1, but if you don't seriously address both the infidelity and the marital dysfunction that led to it, you'll be staring down the barrel of OM/OW #2 very soon. And -- just as bad -- the betrayed spouse will ALSO be destined for failure in THEIR future relationships (assuming the marriage doesn't survive the infidelity . . . many do . . . mine did) if THEY don't address their own 180s, GAL, etc.
Starsky
This should be moved over to another thread so that the thread isn't hijacked.
Sorry, but I don't know how to move it...
I've popped in a few times over the past 2 years to check on boards I've been on and followed. Nblost, I've been looking in on you.
I know what you mean about your own change. My H's A has been over for 3 years now and he is just starting to get in touch around what he did. He re-started therapy this fall and that has been very good. I went to therapy and it was supportive, but I didn't really start to feel better until he addressed his part.
He of course vowed to never do this to me again. I began looking at his behavior as an addiction more than anything else. I realized I should look not the 12-steps and that has helped. I acknowledged I am powerless over his behaviors. Then I found an e-mail dated 2/5/13 in September. It wasn't to OW. It was to someone completely different and a stranger at that.
So, what Starsky309 has to say rings very true. "....but if you don't seriously address both the infidelity and the marital dysfunction that led to it, you'll be staring down the barrel of OM/OW #2 very soon."
I took my wedding rings off. Will I be married in 3 years? I don't know. I do know that something clicked in me and I really understood, for truly the first time, that his behavior isn't about me.
I feel stronger now and it's in large part due to help of this board.
MZ
Thanks MZ! I have also been wondering how you are doing. I'm sorry to hear about the email. This is a really tough road.
Further updates, I bought a house in October and that rattled H (still not divorced but we have now been officially separate/filed for D for almost 2 years). He said again he wanted to come back and has claimed he has broken up with OW several times). I've been resistant based on really not loving or respecting him anymore and I'm also not attracted to him. I feel terrible for our kids though so it's hard.
He took the kids with OW and her kids to Mexico again over the holidays. He seemed mopey about it but the fact that he went and continues to stay involved with her is also not attractive. He is very afraid to be alone.
I'm pushing on the divorce now that the holidays are over. I am expecting to have renewed pain over things...but I feel overall like I'm at peace and I'm happier now than I have been for a long time.