Confronted spouse...now he wont come home

My husband of 12 years (three kids) has been having an affair of some type for the last 2 months. I confronted him with his text messages over the phone while he was on business in the city where OW lives. From all evidence, they were together last night and he was supposed to fly home. Now, he wont return my calls or texts. He may just be gone.

I am alone with the kids who have no idea. So devastating. We were in a sex starved marriage....so I know I am to blame.

Any advice?

How are you doing Nb?

He did come home a day later and now we are on a roller coaster. I am seeing an IC who knows DB techniques. Basically, I am trying to GAL while he travels to OW's city each week for work. He has been coming home on the weekends and is somewhat affectionate and we are doing okay as "friends" and parents.

However, he won't quit the affair (It is both EA and PA). He has never had the intimate conversations he is having with her with me...that is the biggest draw. OW is separated, three kids, older than me, but wealthy.

For now, he is coming home, I lifted an early ultimatum...but affair is only 8 weeks old, long distance, so I have no confidence it will end soon. I am trying to hang in there and keep him coming home...but I am in constant pain.

The good news is I am secure financially with my job, have three girls, and a few friends who know and are supportive. H hasn't told anyone except a divorced friend of his. Our families have no idea.

I freaked out a bit today...he is seeing OW on Friday. We were on the phone and H likes to make jokes about affairs....I told him I didn't find that funny. I also told him I need to detach. (probably a mistake). He said we should talk when he gets home. I am scared.

Amazing how traumatic this is when you aren't even sure why you should care to be married to someone who cheats on you. (and can't stop)

I don't know all the acronyms yet but

M 12 years
T 14 years
Husband distant sine 5/11
Affair started about 8/11
Pa

On what seems only the most rare occasions, confrontation can turn things around...

On the statistically inaccurate 99.999% of the other times, it compels the WAS further into the A or deeper under ground...

I don't know it is ever easy, when we wear our love for our spouses on our sleeves or at the top of our minds...

Confronting did nothing for you, so further confronting will likely do the same...

The best advice is to thought stop, detach, and stay out of your emotions regarding your H, at this time...

And last as long as you can... if you can last longer than the A, then your M may have a chance... if you can last as long as you can... then at least you can say you held on as long as you could...

Good advice. I agree, I need to stop thinking about the affair and detaching. Not easy...we shall see how this weekend goes. We haven't been together on a weekend since I found out about the affair. He hasn't been with her on weekends but we have each had separate plans.

My IC thinks I am seeing enough positive signs that I should be fun, exciting, etc around H. I should view the OW as competition. I am finding that hard so will talk more with her on that tomorrow.

I also think I am in a tough spot timing wise...their affair is just starting. However, it is so "textbook" that I am not overly convinced my H has found his soulmate. (he admitted he would work on the marriage if he breaks up with her).

Thanks,

Also, I am not sorry I confronted. He was more upset and ready to leave when it was a secret. He has had to be sorry and somewhat affectionate towards me which seems to have rekindled a few feelings in him.

I also have read the secret of the affair can add to it's sizzle...

But, he isn't ready to end it so I agree it didn't work as a solution.

Hi Nblost,

For me, I have confronted my H twice over the last 3 years. The first time.....conversations were leading to divorce. I pulled back, found this website and read the DB book and things seemed to stabilize somewhat.

Second time I confronted, he just sat on the couch and lied to my face.

So from the perspective of a person who has been here for awhile, at least you got everything off your chest.

In a way it might make it easier if your H is not around while you are GAL. Then when he does reappear, you will be a more confident you and he will see what he has been missing!! Hang in there.

HUGS!!

What is his incentive to stop when he has both of you? Are you just going to sit back let him screw his brains out with the OW and hope that something comes betweem then and they break up? You shouldn't sit back and take being a second choice!!! What will stop him from doing it again in the future especially when he thinks you won't leave.

It's been another week and my husband is still coming home on the weekends and sending me some friendly texts when he is gone. He's silent about the affair, but that leads me to believe it is still going on.

I am going to read him this letter this weekend. It's not exactly fitting the divorce busting philosophy, but I am at the point where I am not willing to live with his affair indefinitely. I am trying not to give him an ultimatum, but yet I won't sit here for months while he cheats on me. If he can't recognize the pain he is causing, this will never end.

My counselor helped me with some of these concepts and trying to stay focused on myself and the marriage versus his sins.

Dear X,

I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you on what has been happening to our marriage.

The past few months have been very painful for me. I am feeling devastated and I have a constant pain in my heart. I don�t think anything could be harder than when I am alone and you are away in an intimate relationship with someone else. I am also struggling to be here with our daughters knowing what is happening to our marriage. I would never want them to go through this and feel this pain.

Deep down, I know why I am trying to endure and survive. I believe our marriage is worth fighting for. Your affair has been a huge wake-up call. I think I told you that in a way, I am glad this has happened. I don�t want to live the rest of our lives how we had been living. Our marriage and our lives needed to improve. I wish we could have gotten to this point in a different way, but we are here.

I know I am to blame for a lot of what has happened in our marriage. I can understand why you are very angry with me and why you have distanced yourself from me. I know if we decide to work on things, I will need to understand those things even more. Our marriage hasn�t been given the attention and passion it deserves. I didn�t give you the intimacy you needed and when you asked for it, I shut down. I know you tried to talk to me about problems in the past. I truly regret not listening better, not getting help and not doing everything I could to improve things. I am sorry. When I think of how I want our marriage to be, I don�t want what our marriage has been like. I want to feel connected to you, I want to have intimate conversations, I want to be passionate, and I want us to be happy. I don�t like living as roommates. I want us to be truly together.

Through this experience, I feel like a lot of layers have been peeled away from me. I feel more open and more in touch with what is important in life. I guess through feeling like I�ve lost control of our marriage, I�ve realized I was trying too hard to control unimportant things before. I let things bother me and didn�t know how to communicate my frustrations to you.

I miss our marriage. I miss really feeling like a family. I miss being able to talk to you and laugh with you. I care about being there for you and I have always loved being your partner and supporting you. I want to have things to look forward to together.

I want to fight for our marriage and work to regain my trust and our love again, but that feels impossible when you are building a new relationship with someone else. If we are going to make our marriage work, we need to both invest emotionally in our marriage and in re-connecting. I have had a hard time seeing how disconnected you are from our marriage and from our family. I have had to start distancing myself from you in some ways too. I can�t be as vulnerable as I need to be until I know you are only with me. It hurts too much.

I am willing to give you some time, but I can�t go on very long like this. I want to move forward and start working on forgiveness and improving our lives. I am scared, but I wanted to let you know how I am feeling.

I also know that words on a page are not enough. I need to prove myself to you and I hope you will give me a chance.

One more update. I talked to him about the points in my letter, but he didn't want to read it. He wasn't ready to process the emotions yet. (apparently, it's just up to me to feel the pain).

Yesterday, I finally got a hold of his cellphone and saw first hand the amount of texting/sexting he is doing with the other woman. He is sending her pictures of our kids while we are out as a family (not mentioning I am there). They went on a vacation to Las Veg

One more update. I talked to him about the points in my letter, but he didn't want to read it. He wasn't ready to process the emotions yet. (apparently, it's just up to me to feel the pain).

Yesterday, I finally got a hold of his cellphone and saw first hand the amount of texting/sexting he is doing with the other woman. He is sending her pictures of our kids while we are out as a family (not mentioning I am there). They went on a vacation to Las Vegas together that I didn't know about. He was very upset that I saw the messages because he knows how hurtful they were. He was very quiet/upset after I saw them.

However, he took off again to the city where she lives and from the texts, I know they will be together again this week (he stays with her even though I thought he stayed at a hotel). I put my letter in his suitcase. I also told him how much he had hurt me, how I am upset he is bringing our kids into this, how disrespectful this is, etc.

I survived last week and my husband came home this past weekend. On Saturday, I told him I was no longer willing to put up with him having an affair while living in our home. I told him I had met with an attorney, bought a book on how to tell the kids about separation/divorce, had told one of our mutual friends about the affair (before last week, only a couple of my friends knew) and I needed to move on with my life. He basically agreed that it wasn't fair to me that he was continuing to try to be with both of us.

Sunday, we did some things with the kids during the day. At one point, I got emotional at a school event seeing all of the other families. He noticed and hugged me. Last night, he was very affectionate towards me (we kissed like we haven't kissed in years). The next morning, he hugged me when he went to work.

I am going to give him a couple more days (he is actually home for 4-5 days this week) and see what happens. I'm doing the Last Resort Technique but am open to talking/being with him when he wants to. He's invited me to do some things with the kids where I have said "no".

I don't think anything is solved (and won't until he tells me the affair is done). I know there is a strong possibility he could be luring me back in to thinking we have a chance so he doesn't need to leave the house.

I will talk to him again before he leaves again in a few days. I will remind him that he needs to leave the house.

I think our talk was a wake-up call to him on some level. Although, he still feels like he is in a different world and hasn't fully processed this year. For example, he claims now that he wasn't upset when I read his text messages last weekend. He felt "nothing" when he saw me look at them. I'm trying to remember to not put too much weight on anything he says.

Also, he had read my letter. He appreciated it, but it may be too late.

The letter is still in his work briefcase...so at least he kept it.

Ugh, I can't believe it's only been a week since my last post. Anyway, H is still traveling extensively for work to OW's city. I have been trying to do the LRT and I think I've been fairly successful. I don't reach out to him unless it is something about the kids...I wait for him to reach out first. I haven't been initiating R talks (although he has twice). I also don't make plans that include him although he seems to want to do things with us when he is home.

I sense some cracks beginning to emerge...but, he is saying he needs to see what happens with the affair (he wants me to give him a few more weeks). Otherwise, he will always wonder about it. I completely think this is a joke...very disrespectful and I've told him that I am clearly his second choice which I do not deserve. I had told him to move out...but with his travel, he hasn't made a single move towards that. I've asked him about different options for where he would live, but I can tell he doesn't want to think about it.

The cracks I see are that he is saying more positive things about me and our marriage. I asked him if he would move to OW's city and he said, "that would be a long ways off, I love you, I love our kids and I like living here". He has also been noticing changes in me--I am going out more with friends, am in better shape (I've lost 20 pounds and wasn't really overweight before this started), and I've been a bit mysterious about what I do when he is away. We've continued to have some affectionate moments and he looks at me like he is attracted to me.

But, am I a fool? I feel so torn between DBing and putting his possessions on the front lawn while he is on a trip. Has anyone read Torn Asunder? That book talks about making sure the cheating spouse knows the extent of your anger and hurt. I have done some of that...but I feel like DBing may almost be too nice?

I do think allowing him to wallow in what he's done and not giving him new reasons to distance from me may be working. Like I said though, when all trust is gone...it's hard to trust that H could be seeing the light.

(Does anyone else wish the OW would just get hit by a bus???)

[quote=InLikeFlynn]What is his incentive to stop when he has both of you? Are you just going to sit back let him screw his brains out with the OW and hope that something comes betweem then and they break up? You shouldn't sit back and take being a second choice!!! What will stop him from doing it again in the future especially when he thinks you won't leave. [/quote

Just so you know, This "advice"^^^ from INLF, is NOT DB based, nor is it solution based imo, and it sounds very punitive.

It sounds as if YOU, otoh, want to try and save this marriage - or at least you are contemplating that

so I urge you NOT to give in to feelings of prideful anger or vindictiveness.

I have never seen it yield anything but more pain.

(And of course there are options other than those^^, that are not doormat behaviors.)

More input coming...

Okay this is a LONG post (might be a personal record)

but hopefully it'll be "interesting/entertaining" enough to hold your attention.

soooo,

Before you hang onto the righteous anger, don't forget your first post...remember? You said you were to blame. I am NOT Saying this is all your fault at all...

but it's interesting that you have not mentioned what your role was in this since you discovered the affair.

Did you see the movie "It's Complicated" With Meryl Streep/Alec Baldwin? They were married 19 years, he had an a and the m ended. Later on he wanted a recon...

at one point in the film, Streep admits to him "You know, I knew BEFORE the affair that our problems were partly my fault.

But I let you take all the blame when you had the affair, b/c I was so angry" (or words to that effect). Think about it.

See how little she'd have learned if all she did was whine about HIS affair?? She'd be the same woman as before, and she NEEDED work...

so, bottom line is,

IF your h does NOT believe the marriage to you can be better and different,

then he won't want back in...so what are YOU doing to change YOU and the m?

If you can manage to show him that marriage between you two can be a good thing again, then perhaps OW won't matter.

OR if she does, at least you'll know you owned your part

AND you'll know that you became a woman only a fool would love.

Since I sense so much anger in you (which I understand...I DO...)

but I'm worried that your h won't believe you can ever forgive him...

will you hold this over his head the rest of his life?

Will you throw it in his face every time you two fight?

Also, the more people you tell, the harder it will be for YOU to forgive him. And the harder it is for him to return...

IOW, why tell all those people? (To punish? To cement your choice to give up? Giving up is easy. It protects us from looking within ourselves and making the real journey, the inward one...)

What good could it possibly do, unless you want to be seen as a blameless victim, (which isn't fair or accurate) OR you want to stay on track to end it...

My DB coach said to "Keep The Road Home, Paved & Smooth"...good advice...

don't make it harder for him to come home than it already will be...

so the more people who know, the harder it'll be for him to return.

Therefore, YOU need to decide what you want and if you are not sure, then be quiet and thoughtful about this, deliberate a lot more...THINK IT ALL OUT and

do NOT react in anger or out of fear or pain.

Make your choices and actions come from a place of love and self respect

BUT Not from needless punitive measures or so called "boundary setting" when what you are really doing is cornering him

or issuing ultimatums you don't want to enforce...

Consider this real life example I had growing up...

I grew up with neighbors who were a fun military family. The dad was a retired Colonel in the Army and a former POW (5 years in Vietnam) and there were 5 good looking kids around my age. After the war but years before they moved in, apparently, the h had had an affair with OW at work.

oh How do I know?

We ALL KNEW b/c the wife let it slip out enough...she'd make snarky remarks about him or imply things about him were "Not so heroic" etc....

if we asked him about being a POW, or any war story or about one of the medals he had received,

she'd change the subject or interrupt every time. At first we thought she was protecting him from reliving it, but no, she wasn't...she was punishing him some more... and she was far less subtle than she realized. Heck, I was only a teenager yet I sensed such a bitterness in her...

thing is, no matter what happened in their past, as of THEN/THERE, we all detested HER - and admired HIM...we felt she effectively pushed him into the arms of OW w/her bitter ways and her resentments

b/c who wants to be with a woman who would punish her h (and thereby her children) for all those years?

30 years later and I still recall it vividly and NONE of her 4 daughters are still married, (2 never did marry) and the son lives FAR away from her. The Colonel passed away and was finally treated like the war hero he was. She could no longer deny him that...

To me, she made the worst of choices. She stayed married but refused to forgive OR look at herself...so they were stuck in hell.

IMO, you need to decide EVENTUALLY, (no rush!!)

to Either move on and leave the guy, b/c for some people it's just something they'll never be able to move past, OR learn from,

OR stay married and TRY to learn to forgive.

Staying married and holding onto that pain and bitterness is the worst answer for ALL concerned.

Don't become my neighbor. Don't think you know your h's pain. that's mind reading...rarely helpful. maybe never.

Forgiveness is a process. I never saw forgiveness growing up so I had to learn it. But it has been so freeing.

Without it, my m would be over, and I'd have learned very little.

I'm a better woman for my "nightmare" experience.

You can be too. Look up endeavor's thread if you can. Her m is surviving an affair and it has NOT been easy at all...but it's getting better...

And if you want to do the Div Busting method, THEN DO IT...don't confuse yourself or mix up a bunch of conflicting approaches and behaviors, and then say "they didn't work"....

Read and choose and stick to ONE choice for at least awhile.

And btw, look at my signature block. My h was gone for 2 years. You've been at this for what, a month? Two?

For a 12 year marriage and 3 kids, that's all you can handle, WHILE knowing you were partly responsible? Come on...you know you have more stamina than that...

BTW, since all you control is YOU, let's work on what you agree needs work. What would you change about you as a partner?

for instance, Why was the marriage sex starved? Did you have anger or were there intimacy issues or body image...?? Regardless, What are you doing to address those issues?

Have you thought about how it felt to be your h when he was getting rejected those nights? Every night you did not initiate, or said no to him, was a night he felt rejected and undesirable...food for thought.

My reaction to your letter was "way too long" and "way too much about your pain" and not enough about your part in this...or that's how I read it...
So I'm impressed he kept it or read it. But I would not write something like that again. How do you feel your C has been, vis a vis DBing?

This is a simple yet radically different approach to marital crises. It's solution based, and short term, so instead of the endless taking of the "history of a childhood" and "why h has mommy issues" or whatever, AND OR

instead of just "getting things off our chest"

we look to see if what we are doing is helping the m, and if so, we do more of that...OR If it's hurting the m, we do less or none of that.

I know it's easy sounding but it's not easy to do. Way too many of us want to rehash the past. So do a lot of t's and c's.

It was eye opening to me to hear my h's version of events that sometimes, were not "insane"...I mean, he really did have a different POV and sometimes he was just as "right" as i was.

So we agreed we did not have to agree on our past...but we DO have to agree on how to go, from this day forward.

And let go of the past...that's part of forgiving and living in the present.

See if you can enjoy the time your family is together for just that...being together. Give him something to miss...

I know this sounds like a lot of 2 x4's and I'm sorry.

I really am sorry for your pain. It stinks big time. Often it's just gut wrenching even when we can step back and say "Wow, I own part of that!"...That is a brave thing to do, and sometimes people feel worse for it!

But I say, see those insights as empowering. The more YOU can change in YOU, the more YOU can reduce the risk of this happening again.

It's good to have people tell you they empathize.

But don't forget to do YOUR WORK b/c that's what YOU control here. Not him.

Be the best woman you can be, be a woman only a fool would leave.

And leave the results up to God.

(Please read the Div Busting or Divorce remedy book asap--I prefer the latter).

And know that If it were not for THIS SITE and this approach

I would have divorced 5 or 6 years ago. I'm glad I'm not divorced. I'm glad I came here...but I changed ME a lot for a long time BEFORE h changed at all...welcome to reality.

Originally Posted By: Nblost

Ugh, I can't believe it's only been a week since my last post. Anyway, H is still traveling extensively for work to OW's city. I have been trying to do the LRT and I think I've been fairly successful. I don't reach out to him unless it is something about the kids...I wait for him to reach out first. I haven't been initiating R talks (although he has twice). I also don't make plans that include him although he seems to want to do things with us when he is home.

I sense some cracks beginning to emerge...but, he is saying he needs to see what happens with the affair (he wants me to give him a few more weeks). Otherwise, he will always wonder about it. I completely think this is a joke...very disrespectful and I've told him that I am clearly his second choice which I do not deserve. I had told him to move out...but with his travel, he hasn't made a single move towards that. I've asked him about different options for where he would live, but I can tell he doesn't want to think about it.

what is your goal in pushing him out? I assume you want him to choose you --but he's clearly in the throes of a new affair, so it's not likely. He likes feeling desired and it's so new to him...

The cracks I see are that he is saying more positive things about me and our marriage.

Great^^^.

I asked him if he would move to OW's city and he said,

why are you asking him this? It's NOT DBing...it's pressure. The more you challenge and question his choices,

the more you force him to defend and cement those choices...Stop it.

Learn to deal with SOME ambiguity - b/c we all do. Stop insisting on clarity when it's not possible yet.

"that would be a long ways off, I love you, I love our kids and I like living here". He has also been noticing changes in me--I am going out more with friends, am in better shape (I've lost 20 pounds and wasn't really overweight before this started), and I've been a bit mysterious about what I do when he is away. We've continued to have some affectionate moments and he looks at me like he is attracted to me.

All ^^^ good stuff...keep it going...

But, am I a fool?

what? B/c there are positives? B/c he has not ended the A immediately?

Ever think it's possibly b/c he does NOT know that you are different for real, OR that you are going to keep YOUR changes going if he returns, and he does not want a sexless marriage....

I feel so torn between DBing and putting his possessions on the front lawn while he is on a trip. Has anyone read Torn Asunder? That book talks about making sure the cheating spouse knows the extent of your anger and hurt. I have done some of that...but I feel like DBing may almost be too nice?

Well that says a lot to me...you don't know what pain he feels but you fear it's not enough for you? HE needs to suffer more?

That's not coming from a healthy place or a loving place in you. If you want to be able to hold your head high later on, stay in touch with the love and light within, not the pain and darkness or bitterness...

But DBing is NOT doormat behavior. It can require temporary shelving of some emotions, but so what?

If you "fear" DBing is "too nice"...First -please see that admission for what it is... telling. Learn from it. Was one reason you didn't make love more often b/c you held onto resentments or grudges b/c of something he had done or said earlier in the day/week/month??

How was forgiveness modelled for you in childhood? WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE?

Here's your option if you have decided he has not felt enough pain for you...

Punish him. Teach him a lesson! YOU Show him the consequences of his actions, which you will determine...and enjoy the misery you can create for him bc after all, HE does not deserve to be happy

and his misery will somehow give YOU peace and joy and happiness...right?

wrong. Don't make this about being "right". Make it about being happy.

I recall wanting my h to "be accountable for what he'd done"...and My DB coach said,

"LIFE is what makes them accountable and life is what shows them the consequences of their actions. It's not the spouse's job to do any of that!"

What you are teaching your daughter's about forgiveness? Do you believe in the concept of redemption? Can your h ever redeem himself in your eyes? Do you believe in love and committment?

Can you redeem yourself? I mean, do you believe you can become the warm loving woman and wife he needs, and you might once have been?

All I'm hearing is you wanting to be the judge/jury and executioner.

Pick an approach and give it a fair shot. But Don't do 4 conflicting approaches all half ass... make sense?

My fonts are weirding out so I'll quote you here....You said:
[color:#666666]
Like I said though, when all trust is gone...it's hard to trust that H could be seeing the light.

(Does anyone else wish the OW would just get hit by a bus???)

RE THE OW getting hit by a bus question... We all know that one...and answer is YES...) but let's look at the other question another way.

the question about trust...

Why should your h trust that if he returns to your arms, they'll be open & warm to him, when they've been crossed and shut for so long?

Why should he trust that you won't hold this over his head, like the sword of Damacles? You've already been telling everyone you meet.

Why should he feel safe and loved when the only thing that got your attention was his turning away from you?

Trust goes both ways...and both of you have some re-building of trust to do.[/color]

early correction

become a woman only a fool would LEAVE...

and leave the results up to God...

Thanks 25yearsmlc! I agree with you...I am such a mixed mess of emotions that it's hard to get my head on straight. You are right...I need to pick an approach and live with it. I think fortunately, what I've been showing him is primarily the LRT (not much contact or pressure) and changes in me. I've slipped up occasionally in our conversations but have now really tried to focus on just listening to him. (The letter was written when he wasn't willing to admit this was painful for me and he was thinking he could work on our marriage and the affair at the same time)

I also wanted to clarify that I have only told a couple of my close friends about his affair and one of our mutual friends (who was initially his friend). I'm trying to use my IC, my close friends and this board to vent. We have not told any family, work, neighbors, other friends, etc. I wasn't going to tell the mutual friend, but he noticed I was feeling down and probed about why and I started to cry. He insisted I tell him what was going on and he has been through a similar situation so he had some perspectives (he is now happily married to wife #2)

I agree--I need to show him warmth and affection. He hugs me when he gets home and we hold onto each other for a long time. (I try to only follow his lead...although a few times I have initiated because that is more of a 180). We have had some romantic "interludes" (no actual sex) in bed and I have been very open/turned on in those moments. Last weekend when it happened, he held me afterwards and said, "you are amazing".

Our marriage was never sexless...on average, we were probably once a week. However, my H would have wanted it 4-5 times a week and did feel rejected. I very much own that I let too much of that slip away. (I blamed it on the routine of marriage, 3 kids, his work travel, etc). I also think we talked about our SSM exactly how Michele says not too--I felt like I could never live up to his expectations so I felt very pressured and insecure. He felt like I never validated his concerns or tried. The reality is we should have reacted to the issue much sooner instead of backing away from each other.

I agree...I need to keep going on myself and keep trying to GAL and do some 180s. For Halloween, I put on a fun/cute pirate costume and it seemed to get H's attention. I have tried to be very upbeat with the kids and around the house.

I think I just struggle the most with the fact that I don't think I can live with the affair and him comfortably staying in the house for very long. I know six weeks is NOTHING compared to what so many people on this board are doing. I just think for me...it's too disrespectful and will zap away too much of my self esteem. It's also not reality for him...I feel like I do want him to live his life and know what it will be like without me. He isn't doing that now--he travels for work and his "fun" and then comes home and gets to act to everyone like nothing is wrong at home. I do know this isn't easy on him and I guess you may be saying that the double life may eat at him more than I realize.

I guess for me, if my kids knew what was happening with the affair...I've shown them that I've welcomed their dad home each weekend. However, I don't want to show them that I am willing to be a doormat and keep doing that for months on end. I wouldn't want my daughters to keep enduring the pain.

Our MC (who we only went to once) predicted I would not be willing to put up with the affair for very long. I am confident, I have a great job, great family, etc. and he doesn't know why I would. I guess I am letting some of that vibe come through with my H because I do want him to know the truth that he can't keep having this affair forever. And, every week/month that goes by makes it harder for us to build back and recover.

I do think I need to recognize the positives and try to stay focused on me. I do need to remember this won't change overnight.

It's just so hard (as you all know) to balance.

indeed it IS hard...

it's fine line between doormat and compassionate patience...

it's a fine line between false pride/anger and setting an actual healthy boundary.

And the line shifts!! And it's blurry!!

I get that...

so try your best to do YOUR work, own your part and let go of the PAST...
and

stay in the present if you can.

8 weeks before my h was planning to leave our family to live in the tundra, which would likely end our m, he had a conference in Palm Springs and wanted us all to go with him.

I balked. Felt weird and fake and like I was "rewarding" him for being about to leave.

But my DB coach said "do it for the kids (both d's were still at home) and give him something to miss"

and so, since it was going to be our last likely vacation as a family I felt I could do it for 4 days.

for FOUR days I could shelve my anger and not "go to negative land"...for 4 days

I could see my h in ONLY a positive light. I could avoid the negative thoughts, for four days

and instead of seeing him as a nerd monopolizing the conversation, I could see the value of his intelligence teaching our d's about medicine and science...

instead of thinking of h as a health nut, I could treasure the fact that he takes care of his body, etc.

You get my point. I stopped all the negative thoughts of my pain and anger and stayed in the moment...and created more of those moments..

Frankly, if I had to do that forever, I could not have been able to do it for a day. BUT I actually comforted myself with the thought that

"I can always be angry at him LATER"....and that, sad to say, got me thru it...

but see, the thing is, after about a day of this, H began to relax and HE began to be more loving and fun. And so did I.

We had a frickin' BLAST those 4 days and the girls have great memories of it...and so did H and so do I.

so I think I got a glimpse of what forgiveness looks like...and that was a turning point for ME and then later...us...

make sense?

Totally makes sense. And in a way, is why I am glad H is traveling so much...I can gear up and do that for a weekend at a time. I'm also able to create a bit of mystery and he doesn't see some of the mundane/irritating parts of life with the kids.

But,

...not sure where the rest of my post went.

I was going to say,

But, very painful to know he is with the OW each week when he leaves and I agree I need to determine the right approach to avoid being the doormat.

Were you romantic/intimate with your H? I feel like I'm more intimate with my H than I would have expected and seems like it goes against DB-ing. However, I think it feels right, like it is helping, and I think H needs to see that from me or he may not have any hope of coming back?

I guess at this point, I feel like I can't get hurt any further (since we have been intimate for 14 years already and he's violated that). I'm sure the unhealthy part of me also likes that he is cheating on OW when he is home and probably messes with his head a bit.

Originally Posted By: Nblost

...not sure where the rest of my post went.

I was going to say,

But, very painful to know he is with the OW each week when he leaves and I agree I need to determine the right approach to avoid being the doormat.

Were you romantic/intimate with your H? I feel like I'm more intimate with my H than I would have expected and seems like it goes against DB-ing.

I know for a fact it does NOT go against it. IT's a very personal choice. Do NOT let anyone tell you what to do either way.

My DB coach was perfect for me (A Godsend, I'm sure) and she asked what our sex life was like before. IT was a strength of ours and I know h felt more connected when we were physical. It's his love language (touching, affection).

for US in OUR M, I felt it was right and natural and

if I felt regret later, I'd reassess. I didn't.

So for me, I felt it helped to CONTRAST whatever life he was creating for himself up there on the tundra, with a warm loving happy home here...

& I wanted to "Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth"...

(also, I've never heard of a man going home for the great sex he NEVER had...)

However, I think it feels right, like it is helping, and I think H needs to see that from me or he may not have any hope of coming back?

see above for MY opinion b/c obviously I agree...

I guess at this point, I feel like I can't get hurt any further (since we have been intimate for 14 years already and he's violated that).

hey, if you do come to regret it or feel used in some way, you are allowed to change your mind...it's not irrevocable.

I'm sure the unhealthy part of me also likes that he is cheating on OW when he is home and probably messes with his head a bit.

I get that...^^

be the better choice. And for short "units of time" --shelve the anger and be in the moment. Give him something to miss...

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Originally Posted By: Nblost

...not sure where the rest of my post went.

I was going to say,

But, very painful to know he is with the OW each week when he leaves and I agree I need to determine the right approach to avoid being the doormat.

Were you romantic/intimate with your H? I feel like I'm more intimate with my H than I would have expected and seems like it goes against DB-ing.

I know for a fact it does NOT go against it. IT's a very personal choice. Do NOT let anyone tell you what to do either way.

My DB coach was perfect for me (A Godsend, I'm sure) and she asked what our sex life was like before. IT was a strength of ours and I know h felt more connected when we were physical. It's his love language (touching, affection).

for US in OUR M, I felt it was right and natural and

if I felt regret later, I'd reassess. I didn't.

So for me, I felt it helped to CONTRAST whatever life he was creating for himself up there on the tundra, with a warm loving happy home here...

& I wanted to "Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth"...

(also, I've never heard of a man going home for the great sex he NEVER had...)

However, I think it feels right, like it is helping, and I think H needs to see that from me or he may not have any hope of coming back?

see above for MY opinion b/c obviously I agree...

I guess at this point, I feel like I can't get hurt any further (since we have been intimate for 14 years already and he's violated that).

hey, if you do come to regret it or feel used in some way, you are allowed to change your mind...it's not irrevocable.

I'm sure the unhealthy part of me also likes that he is cheating on OW when he is home and probably messes with his head a bit.

I get that...^^

be the better choice. And for short "units of time" --shelve the anger and be in the moment. Give him something to miss...

Nblost,

Reasonable people can disagree (and do) about the whole "should I still have sex with my wayward spouse while they are wayward?" thing, and I won't weigh in either way here, but I do think it must be added that, If you DO decide to do this, for god's sakes, USE PROTECTION.

Your own medical health is the overriding issue here, and I'm not telling you anything that your own personal OB/GYN wouldn't also tell you.

I'm sure 25 would agree.

Totally agree. No actual "sex" at this point and would insist on testing before we do. Holding each other and caressing.

H is with a woman who is probably okay too...but what can you trust at this point?

Thanks!

if you are worried, then get yourself tested and don't say a thing to your h.

I KNOW people will disagree but some of that is ignorance and some of it is punitive on their part b/c they're into shaming their spouse or making the OW look like a possible whore, AND some of them, Like Bond, really believe in it and I get that....but

Unless you think she has AIDS
and then gave it to him....I mean do you really believe that? Is that even on your radar?

If she's American, Do you know that unless she's received a blood transfusion before the screening of the past 10 years OR she engages in 1 of 2 high risk behaviors, HER chances of contracting it are about nil?

My h is an MD and worked in that arena for some time and there is STILL a lot of baseless fear out there about that disease...it's also incredibly rare for a woman to pass it on to a man (sexually)...but I digress...

So the rest of the STD's are treatable by YOU taking meds...

and who says HE isn't using protection?

Right, he claims he is using protection and the woman he is with is recently separated after a long marriage. We haven't done anything yet that would expose me anyway.

(Attending a class with D10 on "growing up" and we talked about the 55 various STDs that are out there...)

Originally Posted By: Nblost

Totally agree. No actual "sex" at this point and would insist on testing before we do. Holding each other and caressing.

H is with a woman who is probably okay too...but what can you trust at this point?

Thanks!

That's great news, Nb. I know this is a horrible thing to have to talk about, but I always get concerned for people when they're considering this, but it's the sad reality. It sounds like you're being wise and careful, and I do wish you the best of success in your marriage!

Starsky

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

if you are worried, then get yourself tested and don't say a thing to your h.

I KNOW people will disagree but some of that is ignorance and some of it is punitive on their part b/c they're into shaming their spouse or making the OW look like a possible whore, AND some of them, Like Bond, really believe in it and I get that....but

Nothing "punitive" or "shaming" at all, 25 -- just a healthy concern for the distasteful reality of infidelity. Sadly, Nb's husband -- if he's sexually active with OW -- is exposing himself to every partner the OW has ever had, and she's not exactly a member of a low-risk group, if you kwim.

Starsky

Oh, and for the record, my main concern wasn't AIDS at all. Those odds are pretty remote.

Originally Posted By: Nblost

Right, he claims he is using protection and the woman he is with is recently separated after a long marriage. We haven't done anything yet that would expose me anyway.

(Attending a class with D10 on "growing up" and we talked about the 55 various STDs that are out there...)

I just LOVE those discussions. Our then 7 y/o had to listen to an AIDS talk several years ago and I recall thinking, "really? SHE was about to use IV drugs or have that kind of sex?"

I get that they wanted everyone to be "enlightened" and all, but their information was way off. Politically correct from both sides. The left wants to understandably end discrimination even if it means misleading the public and the right wanted to promote "abstinence is the only safe sex"....but these were 1st graders!

"Anyone can get AIDS"...yeah, if you have a blood transfusion or engage in the high risk behaviors. Are there a lot of 7 y/o's doing that in Dallas?

I digress...

Yes, thank god AIDS is no longer as huge of a concern. Our D10's class is good. They used AIDS as the example because it is the most serious but didn't overly dwell on it.

And, as much as I wish OW had AIDS :-), she probably doesn't. (kidding, I'm not even that bad)

I'm struggling a bit right now...been just over a day since I've heard from H and I am not going to initiate contact. He's likely not coming home this weekend (mostly due to work because I think OW is scheduled to have her kids). But, hasn't told me yet and I'm now putting myself in the position where I need to act like I don't care so I won't ask. He's scheduled to be there again next week which feels like a long time for him to be away.

I guess from a positive perspective, maybe me staying "dark" will make him miss me. It just seems hard to believe right now.

Okay, time to start thinking about this weekend and how I get through it...definitely not super easy to make plans when you have 3 kids!

H called tonight at 6:10 pm (I am home every night by 6:00 to relieve our nanny). He talked to the kids for a bit and then we had a upbeat, light conversation. He is coming home Sunday for at least a day or two. His work stuff is going crazy.

He stays silent now about the A but I don't ask any questions or ask what he is doing/where he is.

The good news is he now has a close friend working with him when he is in OW's city. They work late hours/very intensely so I am hoping his friend provides him with some distraction/company while he is there.

Hanging in there and I made it through today without initiating any contact!

babybsteps count! Good!

Any GAL?

GAL Things are not just things to do to make you look mysterious and interesting, though that's a good thing. But it helps YOU feel better and obsess less and meeting new people helps a lot.

Try to think of ONE class or seminar to attend or ONE club or organization to join this week... you'll be glad you did.

Keep on keeping on...have you read the div remedy book?

PLEASE do so asap.

Yep, I have read the DR book. I need to keep reading and rereading. I also have a copy of the LRT pages that my IC gave me. I keep them in my purse and take them out periodically to read.

I will take one day at a time. I do know I won't make it like this for very long...but I am okay with that. I think for my H...having to face moving out and more reality of what he has done could really help. He's in a high profile job, our families will be very disappointed (we both have parents who have been married 45+ years), and our mutual friends will be very sad. We are both the kind of people where our friends think we are a great match and we both got lucky to find each other...

And, if it doesn't help...then I know I wuld have waited years and I don't want to do that. It isn't fair to me or the kids.

I would recommend the book Torn Asunder to anyone in this situation as well. Very good book about why affairs happen and how the betrayed spouse shares the blame.

Ugh, probably blew it a bit on the DB front. H was supposed to originally come home on Friday from his work trip. He informed me on Thursday that he would probably be home instead on Sunday. I believe from his lack of contact that he was with OW.

We texted briefly last night and I was upbeat (at a movie with the kids). Today though (Sunday), I texted to ask if he knew what flight he was on. He wrote back that he was maybe going to fly standby, but if he did...he'd be stuck at the airport if he didn't make the flight (for about 5 hours until the flight he is ticketed on which gets him home after the kids are in bed) He then didn't respond to let me know if he was going to try to fly standby.

I wrote him another text and let him know it is hard when he doesn't communicate and the kids are asking when he'll be home and he won't respond. I also let him know he could stay there since he likely has to turn around and go right back again.

He said "I'm coming home tonight and don't have to go back until Tuesday morning". That means he will be home for one day, Monday...which is a weekday when all of us go our separate directions.

I know I should be happy he is coming home and I didn't really attack him. Just a slap in the face (nothing new!) that he has so little regard for me and the kids.

I was feeling more detached but now the pain is back. I will get into a good mood to see him tonight...but this "I don't know when I'll be home" stuff makes me wonder if I would be better off if he was just gone.

I do know it's better he isn't in the house every day...allows me to do my own thing and work on myself. I did GAL last night--went to a new church for a family potluck and then took the kids to a movie.

I am also venting to a couple friends...

H called...must have left OW's house. He offered to try to get an earlier flight, otherwise, he is going to take care of a couple things and then come home tonight. He will still only be home a day.

Okay conversation...I asked how he was doing and he said, "Fine, tired".

I will get into a fun, better mood by the time he gets back tonight.

Here's where Act AS IF is really valuable.

You see, you're making some assumptions about his weekend (he was having a fabulous romantic time with OW). And while that MIGHT be true, if you BEHAVE as if that's what you believe, you might screw things up if what REALLY happened was one of these scenarios instead:

1) Maybe he had a crummy time with OW who was clingy and pushed him into staying when he really missed his kids

2) Maybe there was some honestly legitimate work excuse and he's been working hard

3) Maybe he just spent the weekend breaking up with OW and is coming home to tell you he wants to reconcile (maybe not the most likely, but it could happen!)

If you KNEW that 1, 2, or 3 was true, you would be happy and perky when he came home, right? But what if 1,2, or 3 was true and he came home to you being grumpy from assuming he just had a romantic time? It would likely mess things up, right?

On the other hand, if that's really what happened, but he comes home to happy perky you, it still might make him rethink things. So - always a better choice to Act As If things are okay, in this kind of situation.

(P.S. I would "stage" the house - music on, glass of wine, dancing around the kitchen making dinner - whatever it takes to make it look like the cozy warm happy place he should be missing)

Thanks kml!

I posted a pic of the kids on FB and he commented on how cute they looked.

Very good suggestions on acting "as if"...for some reason, it is hard for me to think of any possibilities except that they are constantly locked in a passionate embrace. :-)

He made a flight that should get him home around 8:30. He is a premier flyer but is in the last row middle seat. Yes, I secretly will take pleasure in that...

He came home just before the kids bedtime. I had a nice dinner prepared and we ate together. We essentially "act" like nothing is wrong and I didn't mention any issues or ask any questions about the weekend. When we went to bed, we had the same kind of "interlude" like the past two weekends where he seems into me from a sexual perspective (but no sex). We then fall asleep together.

I think he has been busy with work, but I also believe he still sees OW (hasn't said he isn't and keeps his phone, etc fully locked up). Also, I saw receipts in his briefcase for hotels during the week but not on the weekend.

I don't think I will bring up anything at all about the affair or our R before he leaves again tomorrow. He is promising to be back on Friday for D8's belated birthday party (poor girl had her actual bday at the end of July right when the A started).

I guess I am hoping he is coming around...and I have read that men who don't leave their wives within the first 3 months of an affair (just crossed that mark)...usually don't...especially if there are kids involved. I guess I need to believe in this to give our marriage a shot. He also has some crazy work travel coming up where I don't think he'll be able to see either of us very easily.

(I obviously also have concerns that he is going silent on the affair to keep me in the dark and have his cake/eat it too...or, he's busy right now and doesn't want to deal with divorce crap)

Trying to stay strong and stay positive!

Nbolst

I am in a similar situation as you - H is in an affair with OW who lives out of town, except that my H left almost a year ago...

OW is actually a client and they go to work conventions together or when she comes to town for work. I confronted him months ago and since then, he has not really hidden any trips he does to visit her. We have 3 kids under the age of 4, so we are in constant communication.

My situation is more desperate than yours in that my H has admitted being in love with OW, wants a D and to start fresh with her. In your case, you and your H are taking some baby steps in renewing your R and strengthening your intimacy.

I would love to have any indication from my H that he is even attracted to me, but all he wants is to be friends, so he won't even let me hug him at times.

So hang in there... definitely concentrate on yourself. I have noticed I am more at peace when I focus on GAL. And everything that 25 has said is such good advice. Re-read Michelle's books and come to the forums often. I find myself always feeling better after I do.

I am also going to counseling - used a DB coach that was great and now through an anger management therapist.

I am not as strong as I thought - I go through a lot of backsliding, but I am NOT giving up, even when it really seems like my M is over. I will continue trying until I have to sign those D papers. He can file if he wants. In the meantime, I am getting up and trying again to be better - for me and for my kids - one day at a time.

So hang in there and continue dbing. You can do this!

Keep_going,
I am so sorry to hear about your situation...you need to take care of yourself and I can't imagine going through this with your little ones. Thanks for your note of encouragement and I hope you can hang in there too!

Let's hope these husbands come to their senses...I am pretty convinced that eventually, they will feel the pain we are feeling if they don't realize what they are doing.

Originally Posted By: Nblost

Thanks kml!

I posted a pic of the kids on FB and he commented on how cute they looked.

Very good suggestions on acting "as if"...for some reason, it is hard for me to think of any possibilities except that they are constantly locked in a passionate embrace. :-)

When you FIX THIS SELF INFLICTED PROBLEM it all gets easier...seriously...

He made a flight that should get him home around 8:30. He is a premier flyer but is in the last row middle seat. Yes, I secretly will take pleasure in that...

um, okay...how would a different flight earlier have been better in that regard? Or you just want him to be miserable when he gets home?

Well....we're all human, but TRY to sympathize with him. IN HIS EYES he's making Herculean efforts to get home...so remember what my DB coach said to do

and it's NOT easy...APPLAUD LOUDLY for the 1% of positives they do...

it's very difficult at times...like only a saint could do it all the time

but you know, it WORKS!

any chance his job will change someday?

WIll it always be this insane? Does he at least MAKE A FORTUNE?

I thought I had it bad b/c my h was military and

(well, okay WAR IS WORSE, but it's not eternal)

but is there an end in sight to this insane schedule?

Hi, I wouldn't say he makes a fortune, but he makes good money. However, to me, it isn't worth it...his travel has always been hard, but at this point...feels like it is destroying us and our family. (and, I actually earn more in my job where I have a reasonable balance for life/family)

I did want him home earlier on Sunday...really just to see the kids. He got home at 9 pm (bedtime especially with the end of daylight savings) and then only saw them Monday evening before he left again this morning. His weekend was up in the air so they were hoping he'd be home earlier. I also struggle when we don't know for sure what time he will be home...I don't want to over-promise the kids and have them disappointed. This weekend should be much better--he has promised to be home for D8's birthday party and he has helped make a couple reservations for it.

I was tempted to have an R talk with him last night (we've been tiptoeing around our plans for the holidays...he has said he will spend them with us...I said that is great but it will be hard for me to be with our families). But, I gave him a hug instead and told him I didn't need to talk. We went to bed together and he held me while we fell asleep. When he left today, he gave me a small kiss on the lips. I realized he left and our 4-year old was in bed snuggling me...probably a good vision to leave in his head.

Yesterday, he asked me to lunch and it was fairly pleasant. Just hard at the end because he started talking about a new job possibility (bigger job/role and more centered in OW's city) and he also talked about joining a nonprofit board. OW is on at least one board and my H would have never been interested in something like that before (I can't recall him volunteering or giving to a charity in the 12+ years I have known him). Just a couple things in the mix of conversation...but brought me down. I held my tongue...I just questioned how much he is already gone and away from the family.

I feel like I am seeing more than 1% positive from him...but it is just so hard for me to trust or believe he isn't manipulating me to stay in the house. I know I need to continue to think positive. I also realize there are many men who would have fled already or been treating me worse.

Thank you for all the support...I really do need the encouragement to stay positive and try to do the "as if"s.

I also realize that at this point, I should try to make it through the holidays...that may be his timeline anyway. He's told me he needs a month or two to figure out if he wants to stay in the A.

H is traveling again this week (of course) but I have received more text msgs from him and I don't sense he is with OW as much. (but not sure and hard to know if she might be out of town or something) One of our interchanges tonight was kind of fun/somewhat sexual.

He helped plan D8's birthday tomorrow--made restaurant reservations and reservations for the girls at a store to make stuffed animals. He also had the idea to buy our two older girls each a scooter.

I'm going to stay with an upbeat feeling that he is coming home tomorrow morning although I think he leaves again Sunday (but his next week is supposedly full of flights to various cities so not sure he'll see much of me or OW)

He is calling the house right now!

H left this morning...yesterday was ok...he is acting a bit more normal around the house and being nice to me. However, it feels like there is a huge cloud hanging over us.

Does anyone else have a perspective on the H going silent about the affair? I am not trying to overanalyze (done enough of that) but my guess is that he believes it hurts my feelings to talk about it so he doesn't.

The reason I ask is because at church today (GAL/180!) the pastor talked about the power of calling things as you see them and not letting people get away with things. He gave the example of a difficult person who only had one person tell them they weren't treating people well. On that difficult person's death bed, that one person was the person who had meant the most of them in their life. Just made me think. I do feel like I'm seeing some baby steps back to the M by H...but he also hasn't reacted too badly to R talks...so part of me feels like I should try to talk to him again this week.

I guess my goal would be to let him know I have hope for our marriage and I'd like to start working on it. I do want to know what he needs to make him happy.

Also, I have been reading the 5 LL book...I think H's love languages are words of affirmation and touching...so tried to do more of both this weekend.

Just venting a bit here.

H came home late last night and I feel like I should be happier than I am. Nothing new, but there are days when it strikes me how self-centered he is. He works very hard--but his world feels to me like it is all about him. Even if he is struggling with his affair and ending our marriage, he gets to pick between a fun new girlfriend and his wife who is acting upbeat and propping up his home life so he doesn't have to worry about the kids. Meanwhile, I'm multi-tasking at all times to manage work, home, kids and trying to GAL.

I really do believe our issues are 50/50 (or I'd even take a bit more of the blame)...but so hard to be in this "limbo" stage and feeling like I am now taking the full brunt of his actions.

I also need to talk to H about the holidays...we just need to figure out some logistics so we can RSVP to family. I'm not sure why I dread the conversation so much. Really, what can get any worse? I guess deep down, I still have hope for us but I'm scared H will tell me that he is feeling stronger about his A.

Is it possible to feel like your heart is in a knot? That's what I feel like today.

I should vent more often...maybe.

H texted me just after I posted this morning and let me know he could attend d10's parent teacher conference. He asked if I wanted to get lunch beforehand. His work schedule had shifted a bit. I think I successfully DB-ed throughout. I kept things light and complimented him a few times on how hard he was working and how well things sound like they are going for him at work.

We talked briefly about Thanksgiving and we are going to get together with both sets of parents. Last week, I had told him that would be hard for me given he's having an affair. This week, I told him my parents wanted his parents to come and he agreed to invite them. I didn't bring up the A.

He doesn't mention anything about the affair and seems to be trying to mention things he's doing while he travels to make me think he isn't seeing OW. I haven't given him a firm ultimatum that the affair can't continue, but he knows I am not comfortable with it. I guess he must have taken the affair further "underground"? Do I just continue to assume it is happening? I would assume it is because if he had ended it...he would tell me? (I found a receipt from a dinner they had about 12 days ago...so it's not like it's been that long)

Also, he had lunch with his parents last week and connected with an old friend this week...I would like to believe that's positive and he's not as much in the "secret world of the affair"? Although, then I got nervous that the A is his new reality and maybe he's just getting comfortable.

Any thoughts? I know I should embrace these baby steps and stop thinking about everything.

Yep. If feels like your heart is being jabbed with knives. Best thing I can say is stay CALM, stay CALM, stay CALM.

As for the holidays (hard I know) but I'd put it to him in a non threatening manner. My sitch, I put it to him as: I just got a facebook invite, blah blah. What do you want to do about that? Leave it with him. He might even say, I don't care, don't know, or I don't want to go. Don't react.... repeat... DON'T react. Just nod and walk away.

You've got a 50/50 he'll either change his mind on his own, or will turn around and think better of it. Don't announce you're going. (you can decide to go on your own.) Just try to: Depressurize,... that's your job right now. And as for getting stronger with the A,... think of it, as it might have to get worse, before it gets better. A's don't last. Most do not last. Period. You want that damn A to END when it's over. My H's A ended with unfinished business, and now we're paying the price for it. Let this thing play out, and run it's course. As wrong as it feels, like they're having their cake and eating it too, and it's unfair etc etc etc. You're absolutely right. But sometimes you have to choose between being right, or doing what you need to do, to get back your happiness.

Abbey

NB, about your "more rant". Ignore the affair. Yep. Trust me, right now, he's all messed up in the head. Think of it like that. Even try to get a sense of humor about it, if you can. He's gone ALIEN.

The thing with A's is the last thing the spouse is going to want to admit to, is that they're failing at the A too. Do not MENTION the A again.

Abbey, thanks!

I will pretend the OW is dead!!! Happiest thought of my day!

:-)

BTW... fantasizing that she is dead... or gets dead in the most brutal ways possible is all PERFECTLY normal. A bus hitting her, tire blow out, random hunter shooting her whiles she's driving in the country, piano falling on her head, poisoned fish at the local ethnic resto. I think you get the idea

Abbey, I've read your situation and I feel for you. Let's hope for a head-on collision involving both OW!!!

You've got a lot going on Nblost, I feel for you, I can't imagine how intensely painful this has been. Wish I could help more but you seem to be in great hands. Sometimes it can feel better to dispense some words of wisdom. You reference SSM issues historically, if you've got some time and want to chime in I'd love your advice here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2197555&page=1

Accuray

Somewhat of an update:
H is gone again as of early Friday. He called last night and we talked for a half hour. He was talking about potential reconciliation and I told him I would like to try...but ultimately, he needs to make his own decisions. He commented about how work is the only thing he feels like is going well right now, and he doesn't even really feel like work is going that well. He told me that we should talk more next weekend.

I felt like I did a good job staying with the DB principles. I was calm and acted interested in talking, but yet somewhat detached. I told him I know he needs time to work through things.

I did tell him a couple things from 5 LLs about how his job has been hard for me (and our current situation even harder) because one of the things I have learned I need from him is more quality time. I told him I think we each have different ways of feeling loved. I also told him that I think I'm more ready to listen about why he had his affair and how he feels. I acknowledged that I haven't been as good of a listener as I could have been through this. He then said I've been really good through this whole thing. He said he can't believe how well I am doing.

He said this is very hard on him. I said it's been just as hard or harder on me and he agreed.

He had dinner with a coworker last night and was at a hotel. He called and texted us several times later that night so I believe him.

Not sure what is happening with OW but I didn't ask him any questions. He may be seeing her tonight, who knows.

He will be back for Thanksgiving weekend. I also acted nonchalant about that and told him that if he needs to be away or work...I could just take the kids to do something fun. We will be at my parents for Thanksgiving day and he seems committed to that.

Is the fog lifting a bit? I hope so, but also know not to get my hopes up too high or have false hope.

He isn't saying his affair is over either although I hope his work craziness and coming home is at least somewhat annoying to OW.

I am having another hard day. I was supposed to go out tonight with a friend but my babysitter fell through and I couldn't find another one on short notice. H did hear I was supposed to go out, so I guess that's good. He'll hopefully watch the kids on Wednesday and I'll try again.

H is in OW's city and my vibe says he was with her last night. After our somewhat good conversation on Friday, he was silent yesterday and is less warm today. He did tell me tonight that he was sorry that I didn't get to go out with my friend...but, it was hard for me to listen to him knowing he's been traveling 90% of the time and coming and going as he pleases and dating OW. (I have found evidence that they usually go out for $200 dinners together) He was in a restaurant when I talked to him. (He was alone...if he was with OW, he would have gone "dark")

The kids and I made pumpkin muffins for some neighbors tonight and the kids delivered them. (kind of a GAL) My D8 called H to let him know about it. He was then in the hotel workout room pumping iron. He asked to talk to me and we had a light conversation for the most part. However, then we got into our travel schedules for December and it sounds like he will be gone a lot again. I told him we needed to talk about his travel especially if he is going to continue to be gone all the time on the weekends. I know the way it came out sounded a little bitter from me. (but not as sad/bitter as I actually feel) But, honestly, being left alone with three kids for most of the past 3-4 weekends is getting old. (and I don't get any breaks during the week)

I just really waver between trying to DB and feeling like a complete doormat. He comes and goes as he pleases and meanwhile, I am here working full-time, taking care of the kids, and pretending to be happy around most of our friends/family. I know many of you on this board have been through this or worse...so I am just venting. I think I am more just mad about the unfairness of the situation...I would never do this to our family...but if wed both had chosen to have affairs and flip out...what would happen to the kids?

I am talking to a telephone coach tomorrow. I plan to talk to her about the upcoming Thanksgiving weekend and next steps. H was telling me last Friday he wants to talk and I want to be prepared with an approach. I think I need to primarily listen to him but I am scared that depending on where the conversation goes...that will be hard for me.

I feel like my anxiety and pain have gotten a little better recently, but it all just ebbs and flows.

I NEED to get into a more positive mindset by the time he comes home on Wednesday.

(The good news is, our kids ask him when he is coming home every single time they talk to him...they do a pretty good job putting somewhat of a guilt trip on him...although not sure how well it penetrates his fog)

Like I said, I just needed to vent my bitterness here versus at my cheating H! (I know I keep reading about people who are angry and bitter like me and how they break plates against walls instead of screaming at their Hs...they must not have three kids around! Not exactly feasible to throw dishes around!)

NB, you're doing great. You're at the place where my H and I were back in 2009. Take this slow, think of feeding your husband as you would try to feed a wild bird. Hold your hand out with birdseed in it but don't approach too quickly. Show interest, but don't overwhelm. Entice without scaring.

The feeling good about DBing and then feeling like a doormat IS extremely normal. It does feel like that at times. Thats why you need to really do the work on you. Once you feel you're doing that for yourself, then when you do inch into the relationship type convos,... let him initiate, be supportive and your relationship stuff needs to be like trying to feed a wild bird. You can affirm interest without being needy.

Keep it up!

Thanks Abbey. The telephone coach (Laurie) worked with me on having some small goals around my H continuing to re-engage slowly with the family. I need to do what I can over Thanksgiving to make things fun and welcoming. The challenge for me is that I think H may need to work quite a bit, so don't want to get my hopes up that we'll have too much time together. Honestly though, I think too much time together would be risky in a way. Also, if we talk, I will try to listen and I will leave the conversation if it gets too emotional or goes on to long and doesn't seem helpful.

I also have some dread over Thanksgiving because we are spending it with both sets of our parents (both couples married 45+ years) and our kids. No one knows anything is wrong so I will need to put on a brave face. My issue is that I don't usually have a great time with our parents. We both have fairly quiet/conservative families and it just isn't that "fun" on holidays. It'd be much more fun to have one of our siblings around or some friends our age. But, maybe my 180 will be to be more engaged with our parents and try to be more talkative with them. Just some added pressure because H also doesn't think our parents are "that fun" and I will be worried he'll be wishing he was with OW.

Also, H's mom has early Alzheimers. It is sad because she used to be very talkative and now is quiet. Part of me thinks it should be very guilt-inducing for H to be around his parents (his 82 year old dad is dealing alone with his mom because H is never around and I am not willing to jump in given our relationship sitch). H seems so selfish by comparison (needs an A to make his life more "intimate" and fun while his dad deals with his mom). Not saying I don't own my role in this...but I know his dad believes I have always been a fabulous wife for H. But, not sure much can get through to H these days.

H was "nice" yesterday, silent again today, comes home tomorrow morning. My suspicion is that he was with OW tonight. I am trying to act "as if" but it's hard because my suspicions of his A turned out to be very right. He's not very hard to read (which could be good longer-term if we reconcile)

Anyhow, trying to be thankful for what I do have in life!!

As hard as this is, just assume that he IS with the OW. Make it a given. Once you let go of that, things actually are easier. Letting go doesn't come easy. It's a repeated behavior until you get it.

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am doing. I assume he is with her very night he is gone so I don't snoop or wonder. I even told him that at one point because he had been silent about the A and I wanted him to know that I wasn't a fool.

H texted me several times this morning as he got on the plane. His dad isn't feeling well so his parents may not make it for Thanksgiving. I was still in bed and didn't respond. He told me to send him an email on the plane if I wanted to talk. I don't plan to do that.

I feel like I'm in a very wavering place. I've basically told him he needs to move out of the house if he is going to continue the A, but he hasn't. I'm kind of doing the LRT, but he's been open to some talking and he hasn't said clearly that he wants a D...so I waver on that. I also want to be positive, nice and try to talk to him in his LLs, but I waver because I don't want to be overly nice and enable him to keep eating his cake.

I guess the piece I am missing is what is happening with OW. If I had a better sense for that, I would have a clearer idea if I should hold on or if I'm being played. There is part of me that is tempted to send her a note (I won't) which basically says that if she is in it with him for the long haul...she can have him. I'm tired of the lies, his inability to make a decision or move out, etc. It's interesting that I really don't think my H is all that appealing of a guy right now...he might be feeding her the right set of lies to make her think otherwise...but he just seems like such an insecure, indecisive, weak person to me.

I still would be willing to try to work on our marriage, but I have been clear with him that I won't hold on for long. I've said this before, but for my H, the "threat" of his life unraveling and the exposure that would come with us separating could end up being what it takes for him to either recommit to me or for me to know he isn't coming back.

I will continue to take the high road for now though and keep positive!

Oh... I've been exactly where you are and am pretty much there again. You wonder if you're being played. You wonder if you should just grow some and dump his dumb rear. You view him as weak. You have feelings of: Do I really want this person anymore? etc etc etc.

Yep, yep, and yep.

It's your sanity making you stronger. It survival technique that we inherently will do to cope.

You're on a roller coaster that you'll feel that way one minute and then want to cling the next. Go with it, it helps you get the distancing and detaching that you require.

FWIW, I worried intently the first time if my detaching would just KILL my love for him. I fretted over that, and wrestled with the whole detaching thing as a result. Honestly... the sooner you can find a way to detach, the saner your life will become.

Detaching MAY,... and I do stress MAY cut your feelings for him once and for all. But honestly,... the heart wants what the heart wants. And to be honest, when you think about the amount of people who HAVE come back to spouses ... who at one time would have rather eaten their left arm than go back... your feelings for one another can regenerate. HOPEFULLY once both of you are willing to do the work.

That's the mistake I made, he didn't do his side of the work... and as such, what he's doing he thinks is perfectly OK to do to another person. Not just to me, but to the OW too.

Think of it this way... your H IS reaching to get closer to you in little bits. HE's doing THAT to the other woman. When you get the idea that they're just THAT much like a spoiled 5 year old who wants ALL their toys and all their wants, and everything to go just their way... you really start to appreciate what you're dealing with.

H got home and I realized I was feeling a tad TOO detached. He met me at a school event for D4 and I felt very unconnected to him. I do think it's good but makes me feel less friendly than before. I did act positive overall and I have a very cute outfit on. The only issue we had was when we went out for frozen yogurt afterwards, H showed me a picture on his phone (of his work) and when I tried to touch the phone so I could see the picture better, he tightened his grip on it. I said, "I'm not trying to look at your phone", and he swore under his breath.

We both recovered a couple minutes later. I shouldn't have said anything, but also didn't feel bad because his psycho-ness around his phone is his own making. Last weekend, he was on his phone and D8 started quietly singing a little song, "secrets, secrets, daddy has secrets"...kids definitely do observe things!

I will hopefully be going out tonight for a couple drinks with a friend.

This situation is so hard...H acts normal for the most part, but we have this crazy undercurrent of his affair. I guess I'm thankful he is being nice and is coming home...but it is just so weird/hard. Once again, if only I knew more about what was going on in his crazy head.

Originally Posted By: Nblost

H got home and I realized I was feeling a tad TOO detached. He met me at a school event for D4 and I felt very unconnected to him. I do think it's good but makes me feel less friendly than before.

Hmmmm. Maybe this is your gut instincts, telling you you SHOULD be less friendly than before!

Starsky

The lies, deception and just general crazy-making that your H does... DOES make you detach. It's a safety mechanism. Uhm, it'll come and go for you. One minute, you feel like you'd rather just walk away, the next, you feel clingy.

Their crazy head (and what's inside it) isn't something you want to know, I don't think. Mine said things to me yesterday during a pretty wild fight, that shows he's lost certain grips of reality. Affair people DO.

They view themselves as victims, they hone their narcissistic traits down to a fine shiny point. They justify their actions as necessary. (Esp the lies and hiding the truth etc.)

Nblost,

I've been reading your sitch. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Seems to me that you are doing all the right things and your head is on straight. Well....as straight as it can be, I know. I know how crazy-making this all is. You have a good friend in Abbey here. No 2 X 4 and allowed to vent your feelings. We all need that so that we don't break dishes!

I agree with Abbey, they ARE abducted by aliens!

MZ

I have a H who travels too, and I wonder what he is doing when he's away (this has been going on for a loooong time). So, I know how you feel. Just wanted to empathise ... don't have better advice than what you're getting.

This whole roller coaster ride feels like your life has been turned into the bloody Jerry Springer show. One minute you want to run for the hills, the next minute you want to cling so tight it hurts.

Don't snoop, assume they are... and get used to it. You have to make peace with that... and then it's much easier to actually get to the next step of: This too shall pass. Most affairs die out on their own. Getting us to the stage where we don't need enough anti-d's to light up a Christmas tree, just to stay sane...is NOT easy. Hang in there. There are big steps, forward, little steps forward, big slides back and little hurts and slides back.

Abbey

Quick update...Thanksgiving went okay. H and his parents were there and we acted like we were a happy couple and happy family. That night, H woke me up in the middle of the night saying "I want you" and we had one of our romantic interludes. He then held me the rest of the night and was "nice" on Friday too.

However, late Friday night, we were in the hot tub and H started teasing me about making plans for tonight. I had had a few glasses of wine and I said I didn't appreciate his teasing. I can't make last minute plans very easily because I am not dating like him...going out for dinner...having sleepovers...no kids, etc. I walked away. H then acted nonchalant a few minutes later and I said it really bothered me how he doesn't feel bad about his affair. He basically just went upstairs to our D8's bed (she was having nightmares) and slept there. On his way up, I said, "I'm glad you are taking care of the kids for once"

This morning, I felt bad and went up to D8's bed and H gave me a hug. I said I was sorry and he said I don't have to be sorry for anything. I said I had too much wine and shouldn't have vented at him.

At this point, you'd all probably say, "no worries Nblost, we all slip up sometimes". No, I continued today after we went on a run together. I asked if I should just assume his A is continuing as usual. H said it was. He really likes the OW. He said they don't talk about the future, but he really likes her. As we talked, he said he just feels like we are too different and it's too late. He also doesn't think marriage should be work if the two people are right for each other. Somehow, we then got into his plans for December and I asked if he and OW had any vacations planned. They do. He didn't want to tell me where, but they are going away for the weekend on December 9.

I told him that it seems like he is really happy and I love him enough to let him go. I want him to be happy. I said we should plan to separate after the holidays. He agreed.

I then broke down a few minutes later and told him that I still loved him and this all hurts a lot. I'm willing to listen about his vacation, but it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt me. He then said, "I love you too" and gave me a hug.

He was probably just saying that. We'll have through tomorrow together as a family then he goes back to MN.

I am tempted to talk to him a little more tonight...in a way, I don't feel like I have much to lose. He still isn't saying he wants a separation or divorce, but I will be comfortable separating given how he is treating me.

This is all painful...and H says it is hard for him too. But, he isn't showing me any real signs of that.

I know I varied from the LRT, but I hadn't had any R talk with him in about 3 weeks and I think I was starting to get my hopes up. Now, I know he's still very into OW. She is clearly his priority.

I am getting back to a better mindset again, just talked to a friend and am venting here.

M: 12
H: 45, Me: 43
D10, D8, D4
Affair started 8/11
H still in house

Originally Posted By: Nblost

However, late Friday night, we were in the hot tub and H started teasing me about making plans for tonight. I had had a few glasses of wine and I said I didn't appreciate his teasing. I can't make last minute plans very easily because I am not dating like him...going out for dinner...having sleepovers...no kids, etc. I walked away. H then acted nonchalant a few minutes later and I said it really bothered me how he doesn't feel bad about his affair. He basically just went upstairs to our D8's bed (she was having nightmares) and slept there. On his way up, I said, "I'm glad you are taking care of the kids for once"

This morning, I felt bad and went up to D8's bed and H gave me a hug. I said I was sorry and he said I don't have to be sorry for anything. I said I had too much wine and shouldn't have vented at him.

At this point, you'd all probably say, "no worries Nblost, we all slip up sometimes". No, I continued today after we went on a run together. I asked if I should just assume his A is continuing as usual. H said it was. He really likes the OW. He said they don't talk about the future, but he really likes her.

Blccccch.

Why do you let him talk this way in front of you? This is incredibly disrespectful to you, to your marriage, and to your family.

Starsky

You and I are in the same boat. Cake and eat it too. At some point, we both have to slam the door shut to wake them up. It's the hardest thing to do. Probably one of the hardest in your life. But it does work.

You realize you're having an affair with your own husband right? And that DOES work, if you know how to shut the door and then he misses you.

Your comment about your H's words: He also doesn't think marriage should be work if the two people are right for each other.

It's so typical with these loons. They'd rather just reach for the low hanging fruit on the affair tree, and eat for the day, than water and nurture a whole tree (the marriage). Walk away men in particular seem to assume that lust and wild sex should just always be there without any nurturing from themselves. They mistake infatuation for love. *growl* Life is work. Marriage is work. Raising kids is work. Loving another person IS WORK.

Originally Posted By: Abbey

You and I are in the same boat. Cake and eat it too. At some point, we both have to slam the door shut to wake them up. It's the hardest thing to do. Probably one of the hardest in your life. But it does work.

Then why are you scratching his back, and pretending like nothing is wrong with that he's doing to you?

Starsky

Yeah!..."He also doesn't think marriage should be work if the two people are right for each other." LOL... sorry....but wait til she has to (or imagine this and add your own) she has to put winter tires on the car, shop for dinner, come home to the kids, make dinner, see how dirty the toilet is, look at the dishes that need to be done, laundry piling up, did the electric bill get paid?, did one of you get a hold of the plumber?, see his dirty socks on the coffee table ..............his f@+t$ in bed, how he gags himself in the AM with his toothbrush......you know, the real life stuff!

As my H and I were on the mend we were in our garage doing recycling. I commented on how mundane it must seem and he said these are the things he enjoys with me, the things that make things matter.

Do you know that R from an A have a 4% chance of working out? If that 4% marries, only 50% last.

Thanks MZ..yes, I have read stats like that too. I've also read that if a H doesn't leave within 3 months of the affair starting...they usually don't leave. It has been "refreshing" at times to read things geared towards the OW about how stupid they are to be in relationships to married men and how the men never leave their wives. (But, hard to know...)

I also agree that the reality will settle in for them eventually...just right now, they are in such a dreamworld with no kids, etc. And, they both have plenty of money to do fun things. (OW is the daughter of a CEO of a large company and she is separated from a husband whose family founded another large company...so, she is used to $$$ and lives in a multi-million dollar house). So, my H isn't faced with the same financial realities of hooking up with her that so many H's are.

On the other hand, my H comes from a typical family and deep down, I don't think would want a "high society" lifestyle. Although, at this point, I'm sure they could convince themselves that they are perfectly in synch. Also, H and I have had similar, successful careers...I have always thought he liked that...but maybe now he is attracted to someone like OW who has more outside interests, free time, etc.

H was affectionate with me again last night and very "into" me when we went to bed. I told him I was sorry about our marriage and how he felt rejected by me (we were in a SSM based on how much he wanted sex (every day) versus me). He told me that he was also to blame and he has a lot to be sorry for. I felt like that exchange cleared the air a bit from the day before.

Has anyone else read the book, When Good People Have Affairs? I found it interesting in that it tries to help the person in the affair decide whether to stay or go from the marriage. It talks about how being in limboland (like my H is) is a bad place because he is at risk of losing both people. To me, the book seems to point towards working on the marriage unless you just know in your heart that you've found the right person and your marriage is fatally flawed. I think the challenge for my H is that he's in a very new relationship with someone who I'm sure is actually not really a bad person...so, he would need to be able to project forward and imagine them in a realistic setting. I'm just not sure my H can do that given his lack of understanding of the realities of relationships. My IC believes he would have a lot of challenges starting a real relationship with OW given the distance thing (I do not intend to move to her city although we lived there until 2 years ago), they both have three kids, and he's starting from an affair and I'm sure he has told her a few lies like he's told me (or, at least lies of omission).

I told one of my friends today...it's like a crazy psychology experiment...I just wish I wasn't in the middle of it. I do think questioning him about the A was a mistake...it just makes him have to justify it...and that means he has to criticize our marriage. (he can't tell me he's going on vacation with OW and then in the next sentence say he believes our marriage could have a chance...he'd look like the scoundrel that he is!) I still believe that deep down, he is unsure and I do think he will have a hard time actually separating from me and the kids.

I'm also trying to see if H will do a vacation between Christmas and New Years...I think the kids and I deserve it. We'll see...I have a feeling he's a bit queasy about OW seeing signs of our family continuing to do things together.

Ya know NB? I really do believe that ANYTHING started in deception cannot last.

Yup deception. Especially when the deception is them burning both ends of the candle. The Cake Eater types, that some of us have - the confusion of really where they want to be, or don't really know.

They're essentially having "affairs" on both us... and the other woman. Juggling that (my H told me when we got back together in 2009) KILLED him. It was getting harder and harder for him to keep it together.

They DO burn out.

Talked more with H last night. He doesn't know what he wants. He won't tell me what he really likes about OW (he thinks it would hurt me too much) but says there are things about me that she doesn't have. That is probably a huge admission from him...I should recognize that as progress.

He said he is having a hard time and said he didn't ever think he would be in this situation. I told him about some of my reading and how these things do happen to a lot of people.

I asked him how the next year would play out if he could control things...he doesn't know. I asked another way and he said again, he doesn't know. He doesn't blame me for telling him that he needs to move out.

He said he would read a book if I want him to or he could talk to our counselor. I may try to see if he will go to MC but that will be a challenge with his work schedule.

He has also noticed I am trying to make changes in myself, but he knows it is hard for me given the A and how he is gone all of the time so I have the kids.

He drove to the airport for his flight and called me on the way and we talked about about 30 minutes...mostly me talking about "small talk" but seemed positive he was willing to listen. I think when he hung up, he said a quick "love you" in his goodbye...but I haven't heard it for so long that I may have hallucinated it.

Anyway, interesting...I think I need to continue the mix of LRT (giving him space) and GAL.. I wish I knew more about what he likes about OW...I asked what he likes about himself when he is with her and he said he didn't know.

It seems obvious to me that if you are truly conflicted in this situation...you should make an effort to at least try to save the marriage and our family.

Hopefully some pressure is building on him to make a decision. I think time is my friend although I am worried about their little vacation on December 9. He has been warming up to me over the last couple months...so hopefully that can continue.

Let me know if anyone has advice.

Originally Posted By: Nblost

Let me know if anyone has advice.

Yes. Generally, MWD advises "no R (relationship) talks!" at this stage. I see you not only continuing to have them, but even INITIATING them, and that's a DB'ing no-no.

Also, your husband not wanting to talk about what he likes in his affair partner is actually a form of RESPECT and LOVE, for you, and I'm glad at least ONE of you is being wise about that.

You simply don't need to hear that -- it's not healthy.

Starsky

Originally Posted By: Nblost

I wish I knew more about what he likes about OW...I asked what he likes about himself when he is with her and he said he didn't know.

Don't even go there, because you will get an answer that is tainted by very rose colored glasses. What she has or doesn't have doesn't matter. (I got she'll never be you etc, fwiw).

Remember that this rollercoaster ride is about him. Has very little to do with you what so ever.

The fact that you're getting some interaction by him tells you one thing: You're ok just the way you are. He's having baby step intimacy talks with you. Just let him ride this out. And even if they go on vacation. Nothing like a good vacation to screw up a relationship. THIS thing is dying for him. Let it. Don't try to drive it.

I think you are right. Just hard to be patient and put up with this. I think he also knows he has a looming issue that I've told him I don't want to live like this past the holidays.

I have a call in to our MC. I may see if I can get a session set up with H for next week. I think whether he goes alone or we go together...it could be very helpful for him to talk to a third party. He's only told one of his friends about the A and that friend doesn't strike me as the most insightful person about relationships.

H talked to our MC about 2.5 months ago and was confused about the A and the marriage--I guess my hope is that he's now seen more from me to improve his view of the M...but I know there's also a risk the A has improved.

I'll see what the MC says.

Starsky, I hear you. I let up at times. Although, here's what's kind of weird about my H. When we have R talks and they start calmly and I listen, he seems to open up. Last night, we had the R talk and then we talked for 30-40 minutes while he was in the car on the way to the airport (about light things). He seems to warm up and appreciate some input from me...all along, he has thanked me for being "emotionally invested" in him. I also think he has needed to hear some of my thoughts along the way to know I still care and want to try.

The bad R talks are the stuff I did over the weekend when I am coming from a place of hurt and anger. Those aren't helpful.

The worst thing I struggle with is the occasional lashing out I do...usually spurred by H making a joke that strikes a nerve. For example, last night, he noticed a craft fair happening the weekend he is going on his vacation with OW. (I'm not into craft fairs)...he jokingly said..."Oh look, you could go to a craft fair on December 10". I then said, "Yeah, that sounds great for me while you have your fun". He got very angry and I said I am only pointing out reality. The R talk when we got home was to recover from that before he went on his plane for a week.

I now need to GAL and pep up...having a hard time facing this week and I know next week will be worse before his trip. (not that he's really home at all anyway)

I appreciate everyone's insights. I do think he is showing a few positive signs and I need to focus on those.

Originally Posted By: Abbey

Just let him ride this out. And even if they go on vacation. Nothing like a good vacation to screw up a relationship. THIS thing is dying for him. Let it. Don't try to drive it.

Nb, I agree with Abbey that this thing has to burn itself out and there is not much you can do about that. In the movie, The Women, there is a scene where the mom convinces the daughter (LBS) to go away with her and basically says, there is nothing like a good dose of the ow to make him sick of her. Very good star studded movie about A s BTW.

I know I need to just leave him alone. Case in point, today's text messages from him (he is in OW's city)
H: "I just transferred/stole $2,000 out of your checking account"
Me: silence
H: "I just deposited $4,000 of checks. :-)"
Me: silence
It isn't unreasonable that we'd be swapping money around (he is paying our rent, etc.) But, obviously the first message didn't strike me very well given his upcoming vacation.

I will eventually respond and just say "Ok".

I know I need to believe the A will die...but this is where all the insecurities flood in. Is a short vacation with her really going to blow up the A? I find that hard to believe. I think my best bet is that he feels guilt while he's gone knowing that I know. And, maybe that shows through to the OW and she starts to get more uncomfortable. I just believe at the stage they are in...4 months of infatuation in a dreamland...they may not crack yet.

I don't know...I don't get it. Part of me thinks OW is just having fun while she waits for her D to go through. In a way, that's bad because she may have low expectations and my "poor" H is waiting around to see if the relationship develops further because I think he is all whipped over her. If you're just having fun...seems like it'd be easier to justify an affair with a married man.

And, I don't get the sense she's pressuring him to end his marriage, be with her non-stop, etc. That's also bad because he's then enabled to live more comfortably in his cake-eating world since I'm DB-ing.

Of course, I don't know. Optimistically, she's likely in her first relationship post-separation, she's 45, she has three kids...she's got to have some baggage, right? And, my H is very high needs sexually...I'm sure that's been fun/easy for her so far...but not sure how long she'll feel like keeping that up. Hopefully she start to feel a bit used.

Anyway, but yes, hopefully they have a terrible time. I think I will take my kids to a hotel that weekend and do a little road trip with them.

road trip = good idea! have some fun of your own.

Originally Posted By: MynameisMZ

Originally Posted By: Abbey

Just let him ride this out. And even if they go on vacation. Nothing like a good vacation to screw up a relationship. THIS thing is dying for him. Let it. Don't try to drive it.

Nb, I agree with Abbey that this thing has to burn itself out and there is not much you can do about that. In the movie, The Women, there is a scene where the mom convinces the daughter (LBS) to go away with her and basically says, there is nothing like a good dose of the ow to make him sick of her. Very good star studded movie about A s BTW.

YEP... fry pan in the head... full dose of the OW. Reality's a b*tch

Originally Posted By: Nblost

I know I need to believe the A will die...but this is where all the insecurities flood in. Is a short vacation with her really going to blow up the A?

No. In and of it self... no.

They start though to make deals "with god". If this... then I can leave. If that,... then I'd leave. It's a stair climb for them and I would view this vaca as a big poisoned food supply. They won't necessarily get "sick" right away,... but happens over time. Think long term... chess match. Not slam dunk as one would in a basketball game.

Thanks guys! Yes, I hope some poison starts seeping in. The good news is we're approaching about the 5 month mark from when they likely really started to connect emotionally (about 4.5 months since the PA started). My concern is just that they are long distance and secretive...so maybe the honeymoon period is extended. MWD says affairs typically last 6 months...seems like the data I see more commonly says 2 years...but that's when the affair isn't known.

My H claims they don't talk about the future or have any timeline or plans...which could VERY easily be a lie OR feeds into my theory that OW is just having some fun. (and H could look kind of stupid if he talks about a big future while he's married and she's not yet divorced)

My H claimed early on that they felt bad about the fact he was married. He also says she knows he's struggling. WTF? I guess I haven't been so passionately "in love" that I would be willing to continue to cross that line. That definitely goes for both of them...ugh. H also likes that OW's friends don't look at him like he's a cheating husband...I found that heartwarming as well.

It's also terrible because our kids have no idea anything is wrong (well, besides I'm sure sensing tension). So, I now need to lie for him over that weekend to tell them he has to work. Nice position that puts me in. Not that I haven't been in it for the last 3 months.

Sorry, just needed to vent a bit.

Yep, we live in CA so I may take my girls to Hollywood for the first time. The good news while H is on vacation...I don't think I need to worry about spending money on myself and the kids.

I hope we can all survive especially during the holiday season. Feels more painful for me.

The holidays are the toughest time. *hugs*... chin up and hang in there.

Abbey.

H called me tonight before I left work...I was nice but barely talked to him before I said I had to go. He called the kids when I got home and was super upbeat. He texted D8 a photo from what he claimed was his hotel lobby. Instead of feeling relief (and comfort knowing he was trying to assure me he was at a hotel)...I am burning up inside. I looked at the picture of the fire and I'm imagining he texted it to OW and said something cozy to her about it. (I know I'm not acting "as if"...but that's just how I felt) And, is he proving he is at a hotel tonight because he won't be later this week? Yep, probably.

I really think I need to majorly detach. My IC told me she is glad she isn't our couples counselor...this trip he has planned really bothers her. So disrespectful and she has seen my struggles and efforts to take the high road. I think it especially hurts if you go back to the beginning of November and he said he just needed to let his A go for another month or two to figure it out. My impression (which now I realize why you can't listen to these guys) was that he would be taking it slow and thinking through things. Not taking OW on a trip and joking to me about taking money out of my checking account. I think this is just a new level of disrespect that I wouldn't have expected. We aren't separated, our kids don't know...how does that leave H free and clear to just take a weekend trip when he travels 90% of the time already???? (venting)

I have been reading Starsky's postings and I think he is right...I need to stop all R talks. I need to move on in my own head. I need to buckle down more on the LRT. I think I need to give H a shake of reality now on what it is like not to have me available to him. He needs to feel like he's starting to lose me and if he doesn't care...better I find out now.

I'll still put up with him to get the kids through the holidays...but I think I need to somehow remain positive/optimistic yet know deep down there is a strong chance we'll separate in January. I fully recognize that may be what it takes for his A to eventually fizzle...but I'm scared because I truly don't know if I will take him back if we get to the point where we put our kids through a separation. It would take a major realization by him that he really wants me back...and I'm not sure he does given our past issues...

I know I'm spiraling down a bit...but I have been feeling optimistic and like I'm seeing baby steps and now I just feel scared. I'm also busy at work and dealing with three kids alone and I realized tonight as H was talking to them...he has no idea what I am going through. I know all LBSs are struggling with that problem. We don't deserve how we are being treated.

I'll reread some MWD tonight and hopefully get back on track with Last Resort. I know I need to regroup a bit mentally.

M-12 years
Me-43, H-45
D10 D8 D4
Affair 8/2011
H still in house

Nb,

When you do the LRT you know that you have to be prepared for the worst, right? <<<Hugs to you>>> I was ready for the LRT when I spoke about it. I had had enough and was crystal clear I was not going to continue with any cake eating.

What may help is to really ask yourself if this is good for you the way it is going. I mean pure and simple question. I've only been on this board for under a year, but I have seen several R and M turn around when the LBS really has had it. It's a change in attitude that quickly gets picked up by the WAS.

If you are not ready, don't do it. However, you WILL do it when you have truly had enough and WANT to do it. I know how scared you are.

MZ

Well, I told our MC in mid-September that I could probably live like this for 2-3 weeks. Then, I decided to make it through Halloween. Then, H said he just needed a month or two to figure things out...so, that put me going through the holidays. When I was "done" in mid-October, I asked H to move out and told him I had met with an attorney and had bought a book on how to tell the kids about divorce. However, I didn't draw a firm line in the sand and recently, was glad i hadn't.

Now, I've told H we should make it through the holidays, but afterwards, he needs to move out if he continues the A. There is a line, but not a firm date.

However, LRT to me means just backing off and not initiating contact. I don't plan to go totally dark (we have three kids who don't know about our problems) and I don't plan to zoom into After the LRT. I feel like I can change course if the LRT makes him pull totally away. (Judging from today, he seems to lean in when I lean out...well, as long as he isn't tangled up with OW)

I agree though...having the attitude that I've had it will come through. I don't want to be bitter and angry with that attitude...but more just detached and happy with myself.

I think if we split in January, that could also be a trigger point for him to change. So far, I've enabled him. He may freak about telling the kids, disclosing to friends/family, etc. And, maybe there's some reverse psychology of me kicking him out that makes him less attractive to OW (or he is mopey about getting kicked out and that makes him less fun and exciting).

I just also know that I don't deserve this. And frankly, his 90% travel schedule means the kids and I are pretty used to being alone.

Detaching does come in stages for some of us. It's an ebb, flow kind of thing.

Forcing him to give up the OW, and choose you, will only bring you heart ache right now. Let her be the pushy one. Not you. LRT is your job. Smile til it hurts. Smile even bigger when you want to smash them in the face.

Splitting, even if he doesn't grasp the gravity of it right away ... CAN be the lynch pin to fixing things. Just remember that most of these men come back... lay bread crumbs, don't use a sledge hammer.

Abbey

Thanks. I'm really struggling this week...I feel like I'm obsessing too much. I keep coming on to this website and googling stuff about affairs. I think I want answers to a problem that doesn't have an answer and is out of my control. My IC said obsession is your mind trying to control a situation that it can't control.

I'm not reaching out to him while he is gone. He texted this morning and I just sent back a simple response. Now, nothing from him all day.

I just need to keep believing in the LRT. I do know I have it easier in a way that he is gone and I don't need to see him every day.

Off to take the kids out to dinner. I'm struggling a bit to really GAL lately between work being busy and the three kids. But, H doesn't need to know that.

This takes a long time. I never dreamed I be here 6 years. That's not to say you will be here that long, but you will be here a while. Above all else, work on your patience. Next, learn to detach. Involve yourself in your OWN life. Do things you've always wanted to do. There's a guy I met here who is now a champion ballroom dancer, and now he's into body building. He had done neither of these things before. Make time for you, and discover prayer. It works.

"Lay bread crumbs..."

I like that, Abbey!

David

Don't confuse "going dark" with the "LRT" in DB/DR.

But while he is out of town, it seems like LRT would be the same as going dark? I guess maybe tomorrow morning I could send him a casual, friendly text. I feel like it's too proactive to be calling him unless I have a reason to. It's sad, but he's been gone so much that there isn't much I need to tell him anymore.

I think I'm really upset about his vacation next weekend. It's eating me up inside. I was friendly in our last real conversation before he left Sunday night...so I guess I feel like I've left a positive impression...now, letting him be while he's gone is probably the best way to act detached?

Or, do you guys think I should keep up more of a connection? I am suspicious he is with OW tonight because he called the kids after school.

He comes back Saturday night.

I do need to start some hobbies...I just have zero time between and intense job and being the sole parent. I think I need to get a regular babysitter and maybe find a yoga class or something.
.
Tamashii, sorry to hear you have been here 6 years...I will read your sitch.

H called to talk to the kids this morning and then had my D10 hand me the phone (so, I was off the hook for having to reach out to him today!)

We own a ski condo that H has had since the early 1990's. We now have an opportunity to buy a share in the condo next door...which would be nice for allowing us to invite other families up there with us. I was very supportive of the idea and we talked through it like we've talked through key decisions in the past (we have a similar, analytical approach).

Towards the end, H said, "but what do you think given our situation?" I said, "we'll need to think about it". That's all I said...no pressure, no complaints.

One of the things H said was that now that I've started making more friends in our neighborhood (one of my 180/GALs)...we would have more options for inviting people to join us there. Small victory?!

Yep... small victory

Keep it up

I'd say yes! I had the hunch that he was trying to see what you would say. Seems as though he wants to make plans for the future with YOU.

MZ, I'm being very cautious with this. I agree it's a small positive, but H has talked about future plans with me before and I can't tell if it's because he is so good at compartmentalizing or if he really means it. (or he's in denial)

I do feel better today because of his words...so I'm going to use that feeling to keep moving ahead on my GAL-ing.

Just caught up on your sitch and can really relate to a lot of your feelings. It is so hard to DB when everyone around you in "real life" (not on the internet) says just kick 'em to the curb. But using a sledgehammer is not gonna get us the results we want.

25 & Abbey have some fantastic posts on your thread - I loved this by Abbey

"It's so typical with these loons. They'd rather just reach for the low hanging fruit on the affair tree, and eat for the day, than water and nurture a whole tree (the marriage). Walk away men in particular seem to assume that lust and wild sex should just always be there without any nurturing from themselves. They mistake infatuation for love. *growl* Life is work. Marriage is work. Raising kids is work. Loving another person IS WORK."

I think when the WAS is out of the house it can speed up the process of them hitting rock bottom. They cant live in a fantasy world like they can when they are at home.

Sounds like your H will be living alone and not with OW if he moves out. An empty bachelor pad is so depressing and pathetic.

I have no idea if kicking him out will work or not but I do think it will get him closer to reality. A reality that he lives rather then you telling him how it will be.

You are doing great. Lots of hope in your sitch. Fake it till you make it.

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree there is some hope...and I'm lucky that my H has never said he wants a D. He's been willing to say he'd move out, but that's been more in reaction to me telling him he can't stay if he continues the A.

Right, H is dreading the bachelor pad. He said to me back in October, "I wouldn't want to live alone...I wouldn't know what to do when I didn't have the kids". (Great sign of being comfortable with yourself, huh?) My guess is he'd travel for work and just try to have the kids at a hotel on the weekends. That'd mean leaving his stuff here...which annoys me...but in a way, I guess is probably not bad to make for that smoother paved road home. The other thing that gets under my skin is I'd guess he'd try to have his visitation schedule synch up for when OW has her kids. I'm sure there's not a lot I can do about that...but it's annoying. He knows logistics of OW and the kids being 2,000 miles away will be hard.

I think the DUMBEST thing is that I really believe my H can't decide. I swear if you aren't sure...everything I read (granted, written for rational people) says you have to give your marriage a chance. How can you leave three little girls without saying you tried? I just hope deep down, he can realize that.

I really believe DB is helping me...he's been warming up gradually to me and seeing some changes. Just hard to know...on the other hand, I've never seen him act the way he's acting and be so cold at times.

One other thing. I have a CD in my car that I've listened to almost nonstop since the affair. Sara Groves, Add to the Beauty. It has a christian bent to it, but the lyrics are perfect for DB-ing and it seems like she wrote it in response to marital problems/affairs. I'd highly recommend especially if you are struggling with radio music. (I can't stand the radio right now...especially seeing H mouthing along to some really stupid pop songs about love...)

Me: 43, H: 45
D10, D8, D4
M: 12
Affair: 8/11
Affair continues, H still at home

Also, the friend who gave me the CD successfully worked through an affair his wife had. They are now happier than they were before. She quit her A pretty much upon discovery, but was a mess for a few weeks trying to get over OM.

She said the reason she stayed was her husband was so nice and supportive.

Anyway, he listened to the CD non-stop so I am hoping it gives off good vibes!

NB- When I 1st started coming to this board I was reading all kinds of stories about the LBS getting all dressed up and when the WAS came over, the LBS would leave and go to the GAL things.....kinda making the WAS "wonder."

There's a good thread in the piecing section by XYZ. He finally had had enough and came on to post that he was done and wouldn't be staying long. As he was really done, his W began to come back around and he ended up staying. He hasn't posted in awhile, so I don't know what has happened. we're all anxiously awaiting his return to let us know.

Our wood guy had a WAW and he was telling me all about it. I printed off XYZ's stuff and gave it to him. He found it really helpful. It really shows how going dark can work.

Here are the links to his progress. Kinda a long read, but if your are up and can't sleep....Get a cup of cocoa and follow his progress. Food for thought.

XYZ is here, but I won't be staying...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2159765&page=1

XYZ is here, and it looks like I'm staying...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2164526#Post2164526

XYZ is here longer than I ever imagined...
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2168987#Post2168987

Thanks MZ. I read some of XYZ's stuff and sounds like he had some good progress...I hope he is okay.

I feel like my sitch is kind of unique from the perspective of my H being so "confused". He doesn't want to move out, but he doesn't want to give up his A. I think it may be an internal struggle for him between his responsible, family life and his new, exciting life. I think the power of LRT and maybe eventually going dimmer is that it will hopefully allow him to think through things.

If he decides his A is worth shattering our family over and he's not willing to try to work on his M...I'm increasingly okay with that. I deserve someone who will make me a priority and be willing to have a healthy, balanced relationship with me. I think believing this is key for me to be strong and hopefully give off the kind of attitude that makes me more attractive to him.

We are in a very "awkward" place right now given his vacation next weekend with OW. I just need to ignore it and hope he feels increasing guilt about it. But, hard to know how much he can understand what he's doing.