Well, H packed his suitcase and headed out the door tonight. I confronted him about the new affair information I had found and told him I would no longer live like this. He confirmed that is HAS been physical.
I am just sick. I don't know that I want him back anymore.
SunnyD,
Sad to hear you are going thru this...
You and I are the only ones up at 4:30am...these affairs ruin your sleep...
I am in a similiar situation...
Are you both going to MC/IC...
Have you read Dr Harley's book His Needs/Her Needs?? or Love Busters??
If not I might suggest them both because they helped me alot on learning what happened to my wife and I...
Over a ten year period my wife and I stopped meeting each others emotional needs, and we drifted apart and did not spend enough time together...spending time together is one of the emotional needs...
Dr Harley has the top ten emotional needs and they are:
1. affection 2. sexual fulfillment 3. conversation 4. recreational companionship 5. honesty and openness 6. an attractive spouse 7. financial support 8. domestic support 9. family commitment 10. admiration
Dr Harley says that if a couple are not striving to meet each others top five EN then they are substracting points from each others love bank account...
Dr Harley states that we need to meet each others top five emotional needs and be working towards the other 5 EN in order to maintain a safe healthy marriage.
I know that in my case my wife and I were not meeting each others emotional needs...
But in all honesty we did not have Dr Harley's roadmap for success until I found his books about three months ago...
I believe everyone of us that are suffering marriage problems have fallen into not meeting each others emotional needs to some degree...
I hope this helps...
Stay positive and keep yourself busy...
Sunny,
I am so sorry to hear this. I know from reading your old posts that this is something you were afraid of, and now that it's been confirmed, I'm hoping you can at least have some peace about the truth of what's going on.
I will reach out to you in the alt to see how I can help.
Hugs,
Starsky
Thanks Two. I have read Harley's works. In fact, it was a big part of the New Beginnings workshop we went on in July. H wants to hear none of it. He claims it was all me - that he put up with "years of crap" and that his short affair of months is nothing in comparison. (Yes, I recognize my faults, but I don't see the YEARS of crap I supposedly gave him.) In any case, he justifies the A by saying he had told me in April he was "done" and stopped wearing his ring.
He can tell himself whatever he wants. The end result is he looked to solve his problems outside our marriage and is ruining our family because he still refuses to resolve it inside.
Sunny my H said a lot of the same stuff the day he packed to leave. My H to this day claims that there wasn't sex before he left, but that he couldn't control himself with the OW and said that out of "respect for me he was leaving before it got to that point." But he blamed me for all the problems, even down to saying that a major fight we had, that that very week was when he noticed the OW for the first time. I mean he admits that he only turned to her because our rel. had problems, but he acted like I caused all of them by not meeting all his needs or by not understanding him enough when he was in MLC. He claims he is no longer in MLC now, which I do not believe at all, and now he says that he "regrets placing all that blame on me but that he would've said anything that day to get out the door because if he hadn't said what he did I would never have let him go." This is just such twisted logic--because he always had the power to leave. But the issue for him is that he acknowleges that there wasn't a legit reason to leave me unless he could make me hate him, and then he could say that he had no choice, that he that would prove I'd never be able to forgive him.
Yes very twisted logic.
I think what it comes down to is that our H's are weak. They lack courage. They are in a second childhood or they never developed adult coping skills, and the first sign of trouble, they bail. They run away. And they know that's wrong and they know it's cowardly, so their answer to that is to turn the anger at themselves on us. It's easier to blame us for their failures than to face themselves.
So please, please don't listen to him. It's not you. It's him. I am not saying that we don't bear some responsibility for marital problems, we do, but we don't make them cheat. THEY cheat. We stand by them. They run. They betray us, not the other way around. I know how bad this is for you because I spent the first 2 months at least after my H moved out to "explore the rel. with the OW to see if that was the path he should take" by blaming myself for everything. Then I got out of that phase, and I see that I'm not to blame, but the bottom line is he is still so delusional that he thinks this affair will last, so he filed for divorce. I can't do anything but protect myself.
And that's all you can really do to, but you know, it is a lot. It doesn't sound like "much", to "just" protect yourself, but in doing so you're already doing far more than he is to fix yourself and your ability to persevere in your life and future relationships, while he's running from himself. I think every day is a struggle but every day you get through you are one little bit stronger.
My thoughts are with you.
Wow Antonia, that was spectacular.
I can't imagine much more needs be said at all after reading that.
Thank you Frank V :-)
I would not be able to say any of that (and of course I mean every word) were it not for my 4 months of therapy which is still ongoing, my journaling, and the people who have helped me on this forum. This forum has been a blessing to me because no matter how bad it gets, someone is always here who has walked in our shoes. Sometimes that is exactly what we need to keep standing up again after being knocked down.
AB,
Excellent post...
You are spot on in your analysis of why the husbands run...it is a cowards way out...
These guys have no kahones...if they did they would stay and work with their spouse thru MC/IC to resolve the problems...
I have seen alot of these affairs in my life, and I cannot remember any that were a success...in 12-24 months most of them are over...
I am into 4 months now with my seperation and a WAW...
Some days she wants to talk and visit with me, and then a few days later it is like the demon from hill got ahold of her...
I am like you because finding this site has been a true blessing to me...it has helped me deal with this stressful situation, and I would not have handled it well had I not found this site and read alot of the great posts...
Alot of us are going thru similiar situations, and it sure helps to mentor and share our stories together...
Stay positive...
I'm in no contact right now--after he filed the papers and I went to the courthouse to be served and to turn over the separation agreement, I told him that I was unblocking him from being able to contact me because I wanted to be able to detach from him without any more "help" electronically. I figured I needed to see if I had the willpower to do so. It has been about 10-11 days. I have not contacted him; he has not contacted me. I keep thinking of how completely insane it is that it has come to this, to spend 23 years with someone and then poof, it's like I don't exist to him (I can't say he doesn't exist to me, I think about him constantly and can't seem to stop). But I also know that I haven't been nearly as stressed or crying since I began the serious no contact part of this whole thing. Like you said, twom7, I was getting a nice person some days and a demon others, and the stress of wondering what an interaction would end up like was not good for me, and I finally realized that, so that's the good side of no contact.
On the down side, I keep thinking this will be the way it is forever. No more contact ever. That just kills me. But if he's hurting me and can't do anything but hurt me, I need to learn to care about myself to stop him. He won't protect me; only I can protect me.
Anyway Sunny at some point you'll probably be in that same boat of no contact; all I can tell you is that people told me to do it for a LONG time and I tried and failed about 5 times before I finally felt that I was truly ready for it. I think in our heart we know it's the best thing for us to do but doing it is another matter. You will do it when you are ready and it is totally part of the whole protection phase and taking care of yourself.
Thank you Antonia for your VERY wise words! Everything you said is dead on.
Thank you also Frank and Two - for the support.
No contact is right around the corner for me. It's hard with kids. H kept contacting me yesterday and I am definitely seeing the Jekyll and Hyde. One minute he was blasting me the next he was talking about wanting to try to work things out if I was willing to sit down with the kids and truly hear everything I had done wrong as well as what he had done too. The boys did not want to. I have discussed with them over and over all my wrongs. They have forgiven me and they don't see anything I've done as a marriage killer. They see what he has done as being one though.
My college daughter is so confused...I feel terrible for her. She took H's call yesterday and then ended up more hurt because of course, there's a large part of her that just wants her daddy back.
I have two points of view for you on this. First, as a former LBS who's H had an A. Next time he pulls the "I want to work things out if only you do...." Put it back in his court. You have taken and will take responsibility for your part in this mess but he needs to own up to having an A. You did not make the choices for him. He made them all on his own. Until he's willing to be honest about that, there isn't much to discuss. Absolutely, do not bring your kids into this anymore. Let him know that it's not healthy to drag them into your marital issues. If you need a third party, try MC again.
Second, as a child of divorce. My parents got a D when I was 19. Forget anything you've heard about older kids taking it better. It totally messed up what I thought about the entire foudation of my life. I acted out in very unhealthy ways to deal with my pain. I know now that my first marriage was a reaction to my parent's D.
You are handling this as well as anyone could. Decide what you want in a marriage and don't settle for less. Keep reading RR and the other books we've all recommended. It will help you gather strength when you have to interact with him.
Well, Blue, he admitted to the affair. I gave him the option of ending it and working on the marriage or leaving. I could not have him in the home any longer if he did not want to commit to the marriage. He chose to go. That's the sad part. He claims the affair has nothing to do with "our relationship - our problems". (Of course he claims that.) He said he doesn't have a problem ending it (so do it!) but it still "wont' fix us" even so. He claims all my faults are what led up to his wanting out and thus having the affair.
I agree with the kids. They are very hurt by all of this already.
I am staying strong - and still reading!
God this sounds exactly like my H in that while my H didn't say he would end the affair, he said "even if I wasn't with her it wouldn't make any difference, our rel. has run its course; this affair has nothing to do with it." Except it has EVERYTHING to do with it. He admitted that he only started to look elsewhere right after we had the first major fight ever after we had reconciled from the first separation. He also admitted to friends first, then to me when I questioned him, that he "needed her to cling to in order to be able to leave" because he knew that leaving was irrational and that there was no "reason" to end the marriage. In fact, he said to me that he knew full well that he could have "a perfectly good marriage the rest of his life if he stayed with me, a better marriage than most people have, but that he wanted something different and wanted to see if that someONE different would take his life into a different path for the second half."
And, he also said that she and I were very much alike, except that the one or two faults that I had that bothered him, she lacked them, so in his mind she was "a better fit" for him than I was.
I'm only telling you all this so you see how insane these spouses are in their wacky rationalizations for infidelity. THERE ARE NO RATIONALIZATIONS. It is never our fault. It is their weakness. Their mistake. I mean I went through hell with him last year before and after the first time he walked out "to find himself." Did I take up with someone else? NO WAY. And you haven't either despite what you're going through.
I think it all goes back to MLC, because these spouses just lose it, and they are not able to handle it so they try every escape route possible to avoid looking within for answers. Mine tried moving out, but in 2 months he was dating me again. Sex was the thing that brought him close to me again. Then after a few months, he decides to set up a person to sleep with so he can leave again. He will not face being alone yet I have. My being alone has made me grow. He is stuck. And to this day, he admits that he has tried desperately through his meanness or anger or rude comments or ignoring me to try to get me to hate him. Why? Because he says, "if you hate me, Antonia, you will find it easier to detach from me, and if you detach then I can move on with my life with her. You won't be in my head anymore."
What he's really saying is this: "If Antonia hates me, it makes it easier for me to rationalize leaving a perfectly decent, salvagable marriage with her for another woman. It shows me that I made the right decision, because OW doesnt' hate me. Antonia does. I can't be with Antonia if she hates me. I HAVE to be with the OW. And this will make it much easier for ME to move on."
I read this book called Loving What is, and it sort of teaches that often what we say is the opposite. That someone in strife or trouble projects, and that what they say directed at us is a reflection of themselves.
When I asked him if the second part above was what he REALLY meant, he agreed. HE AGREED.
Yet even though he agreed, he still couldn't see that what he was saying was insanity. That it still showed a childishness or a lack of empathy or a HUGE amount of rationalization for his act and blame laid at my feet for everything.
So see even though my H has probably now admitted more than yours has, and yours might in time, he is STILL not rational, and until he ever becomes rational, there is no point to my dealing with him.
I think in your case you almost need to take what you're learning and teach your kids the same coping skills because while they may desperately want him back too, he isnt' in a place where he can meet any of you halfway even, and he is likely paying lip service to any ideas of working things out.
There is a part of me that thinks that they almost need to be done with the OW and living alone for some time before any of us can even consider any reconciliation.
Admitting is not taking responsibility. That's what I meant when I said throw it back in his court. Just because he admits it, doesn't mean he accepts that it is HIS fault, not yours. It was his choice, not yours. As AntoniaB said, he rationalizing so he can walk out the door. If it's all your fault, then it's ok to do what he's doing. You need to keep saying that you're willing to accept your responsibility but he will need to do it to. That means owning his choice to rip his family to pieces.
It's really a classic passive aggressive move. I don't have the courage to fix my marriage or leave it so I create a problem that makes the other person have to deal with it. What a grown up thing to do!
The good news is they do hear you when you speak the truth to them so keep saying it.
SunnyD - I agree with everyone!
This is why I save every voicemail, every text message. He sends a new one and I read the previous and see that there has been no change in attitude.
Until your H takes responsibility for himself, there is little that can be done.
He's out of the house now, so it is your time to heal.
Thanks for all your thoughts and encouragement!
H and I are meeting with a FT tomorrow. He's wanting to possibly reconcile - says it is over between the two of them. She actually called me...that was wild!
I'm trying to keep today for myself so don't want to go into it in detail, but very interesting. We shall see.
Sunny please keep your expectations low.
Even if he wants to reconcile you still have a very long road to go.
There are no shortcuts!
Just to add - my expectations are high in terms what I expect to happen before I am willing to jump back in...but I know what you meant. :-)
Hi Sunny,
I am new to your sitch and don't know the whole story, but parts of it jumped out at me due to a lot of similarities with mine.
My H was in an 8 month A and I successfully busted it with DB techniques. They ended it and we were in piecing for six months.
In retrospect, I took him back too easily and too quickly. I didn't think so at the time, but I can see it now.
Please be very cautious and I am glad to hear you have low expectations. The WAS needs to do A LOT of work to figure out how they made these destructive choices in the first place, and be willing to do A LOT of sacrificing to rebuild trust. Your boundaries must be rock solid and clearly and firmly communicated and maintained.
Let me tell you... the pain the second time around is so much worse.
The only saving grace is that you are stronger and have grown so much that you can get through it better.
So take the time now, before your meeting with the FT, and figure out what your boundaries, expectations, and requirements are to reconcile and rebuild trust. Because once your emotions get triggered (love, memories, hopes, dreams)... it is much harder to stand firm.
Having said all that.... my hopes are high for you! There are definitely positive signs.
I can see what you are saying, Rocked! It's much easier to set those boundaries when you are detached versus when your emotions are triggered.
I did talk to H tonight for awhile. He called and we made an appt to see the FT tomorrow evening. It isn't so much about marriage counseling as it is about discussing my list of must-haves for recovery and what he would like to see happen as well. (He is willing to do MC but I want to make sure we do a good plan of recovery - not just MC.)
H did ask about the time frame for coming home. I didn't want to say a specific time frame and he understood that. He seemed concerned that I was trying to get him to be gone a certain # of days so for some legal reason and that I was just playing along (about reconciliation) until that time frame was up. ???
Anyway, I said basically that I to feel secure about some things before he were to come home and I didn't know what that time frame would be - it depends.
I will say, this is the first time in a very long time that we've talked as human beings about some of the things that have happened. I felt like we were finally getting to some openness and honestly. SO...that was good.
I do not think we would have ended up at this point had I not called him out on the A and brought it to a halt.
I know there is a long road ahead and no shortcuts down it! We shall see. I am not wanting a marriage that is like what we had before. Now that I am a person of self-respect, I expect better for myself and of myself. SO: no one worry that I'm going to accept less than that...ok?! :-)
Hi Sunny,
So sorry you're going through this! When "it's all about them," they don't see all the destruction they create in their wake.
One of the things I've discovered since WH moved out is how much calmer things are around here. No more walking on eggshells, no more planning things around his moods. Even the kids seem happier. He's gone, he's doing his own thing, and we're doing ours.
If he wants back, he's going to have to do some MAJOR changing - I will not tolerate any more disruption from him. Like you, I have a list of things that need to happen before I'll be willing to try again and allow him back into my life. He may have fired us as his family by walking out, but if he thinks we'll rehire him as a husband and father just because the other relationship didn't work out, he's in for a rude surprise!
I think it's interesting that as soon as your WH's relationship with OW ended - even though she had "nothing to do with things" (script, script) - he wanted back. Make him sweat it. Let him know leaving was the easy part; coming back's going to be the challenge.
Hang tough, girl! You can do this!
Thanks, Sassy! I agree. It would be 10x harder for him to come home right away for him to just turn around and leave again in a few weeks, months, or even years.
The first thing that jumps out at me is... how comfortable are you that the A is really over? It took my H several failed attempts to end it. Really, he never did. She did after I talked to her and set her straight about our M. Is there some level of transparency even now while he's out of the house? Maybe that's something that you can discuss with the FT.
Don't let it be all your fault. Keep calling him on his actions that got you here. Alot of them can really twist things back around so it gets to be your fault again.
You're handling this as well as any of us would want to. Good luck with the FT.
I believe there have been failed attempts at ending it prior to this. I do have a transparency plan in place, but am I totally comfortable? No: I don't know that I will be for awhile.
I've done a lot of praying and I can say, God has given me the strength to get through this the best way I can. If I am strong, I am sure it is because of Him. There is no way I could've had a conversation with OW and been as calm and sane as I was otherwise.
Thank you for the support, Blue!
I don't think it is my fault at all. I was at fault for the role I had in problems in our marriage, but I have done - am doing - the best I can at fixing those. While I was fixing myself (and therefore, our marriage) H pursued an affair with OW, despite knowing I was working on the marriage. Until he sees that and the pain of that, there is no hope for full restoration.
Can you recap the phone call from the OW? Just curious!
Thanks, Starsky. And yeah- DQ - I will when I have a bit more mental energy!
Long day and night. H and I met with FT together. Not much accomplished other than H told his side of the whole story of our marriage from beginning til present. I thought it was going to be more about how we go from here in deciding if/when we reconcile. I'm sure H wanted his story out there for the FT to hear. I'm sure he wants to make sure it is understood why he felt it OK to have an affair, etc...
It's OK: I had 0 expectations going into it. I mean that too - not just saying it. Actually, it feels a bit better that he hasn't just "changed overnight" because this feels more real.
SOOOO...I didn't get to get into my list of my requirements for going back in. In fact, I'm pretty sure H just thinks I'm still dying inside for him to come back, etc... He doesn't get that I'm not! The funny thing is, even if I told him that I think he wouldn't believe it. He would think that I'm just being told to say that or whatever. Doesn't matter to me: I know the truth and that is - I'm NOT dying for him to come home or anything like that. In fact, I know that reconciling for me means a ton more pain. I can't explain it, but there's been a shift for me. It's not so much that I've gotten to the end of the race as it has been described, but that I truly can take it or leave it at this point. Right now, I know I will be just fine without him. I would worry about the kids, but I know they don't want me just taking him back under any circumstance either.
The way I see it, for me to go back into this marriage means I have to go back to pain. Back to trying to heal from infidelity where right now I'm good and detached. If I give my heart back to him, that means I also open myself up to the hurt of him being with another woman. If I don't reconcile, I don't have to open my heart back up to him again, and I avoid pain.
Do I still think it's worth it? Do you save the marriage no matter how tough? Well, that's why we're all here. Having said that, the cheating spouse sure doesn't realize the strength of the inner beast they've unleashed. At least not it my case!
Sunny, my H has no interest in reconciliation and his affair is still, to my knowledge, going strong and we're inching closer to the divorce being final every day. But with that said, I have to say that ever since I seriously entered this detachment/protection phase, I'm feeling the same as you do, the whole "take it or leave it" for the reasons you state above. You perfectly articulated the way I feel too about him, that I am really doing so much better now that I'm detached that I wonder if I'd ever even want to reconcile with him if that opportunity came up. Maybe it won't. I'm assuming it won't. But I wanted to say that you hit the nail on the head for how I've been feeling lately too. The empowerment that comes with detachment is really good for you because you're in such a stronger position to see through any potential bs and now you're sort of driving the car instead of him.
Sunny, you are right. He doesn't get it right now. He's still too busy trying to justify what he did. Once he stops and sees who you are now, he'll see the confident, strong woman he left and wonder why you aren't begging him to come back. It will drive him crazy.
You have most of the power now. The strength you get from detaching and GAL is amazing and it's incredibily attractive to WAS. It's really up to you to decide if you want to try for something new with that person. Notice I didn't say go back with them. I don't believe in going back, only going forward to something new and better.
The best part is you have lots of time. None of this has to be decided right now. You can give it some time and FT and see what you want. You sound great. Confident. Keep doing whatever you're doing.
Thanks, Antonia and Blue! I am grateful for all the support I've received through this. I am strong only because of God and the awesome people He has put in my life because of this!
I agree with what you are both saying. I DO feel I am in control of my own destiny here, and that's a good feeling.
SOOOO...I didn't get to get into my list of my requirements for going back in. In fact, I'm pretty sure H just thinks I'm still dying inside for him to come back, etc... He doesn't get that I'm not! The funny thing is, even if I told him that I think he wouldn't believe it. He would think that I'm just being told to say that or whatever. Doesn't matter to me: I know the truth and that is - I'm NOT dying for him to come home or anything like that. In fact, I know that reconciling for me means a ton more pain. I can't explain it, but there's been a shift for me. It's not so much that I've gotten to the end of the race as it has been described, but that I truly can take it or leave it at this point. Right now, I know I will be just fine without him. I would worry about the kids, but I know they don't want me just taking him back under any circumstance either.
The way I see it, for me to go back into this marriage means I have to go back to pain. Back to trying to heal from infidelity where right now I'm good and detached. If I give my heart back to him, that means I also open myself up to the hurt of him being with another woman. If I don't reconcile, I don't have to open my heart back up to him again, and I avoid pain.
Do I still think it's worth it? Do you save the marriage no matter how tough? Well, that's why we're all here. Having said that, the cheating spouse sure doesn't realize the strength of the inner beast they've unleashed. At least not it my case!
Hi Sunny,
I haven't posted on your threads, but have been reading them. I totally agree w/you on this. This is where I am as well. It's hard to decide if you should just go forward w/a totally clean slate (i.e, get D'd) or work thru the tremendous amount of pain inflicted by WAS's A. I don't have any insight for you, just understand where you are.
Hang in there. It's really all any of us can do.
Thanks, Vulcanized, for the support! Sorry you are in this place as well.
I want to clarify what I was saying about pain: It isn't that I think a new marriage with H would have to be pain. It's that I know the recovery process would involve me going back to a place of pain. I know that in practical matters...like intimacy... it will stir up feelings that are painful. In order for me to ccare about this marriage again it means opening my feelings back up to that vunerable place of hurt. Do I know I have to go through that regardless, for my own healing? Yes, of course. BUT...it's a whole new level of pain to un-detach and open my heart to him fully again.
Hey Sunny
The decision to trust again is a tough one.
I have not come to that part yet.
I ask myself what does it look like when I would consider letting my W back in my life.
What is healthy for us. More importantly
When is it healthy for us.
I know that I wanted my W to want to reconcile when I started this.
Looking back I am glad for the time that has passed and am actually grateful for the time I still have...
Two people here right?
Are YOU ready? Have you done your work? Are you happy with YOU?
Then
How has H changed?
This isn't an all or nothing deal. I think you walk slowly and watch
The same things we say about the LBS is also true for the WAS
He can't talk himself out of something he acted his way into.
What do you need to see? What actions from H.
Your old marriage is over and dead.
This is all up to you what you want to create from the ashes.
Sunny I think that Grit has given you some good advice.
The thing about being hurt and foregiving, I will just say that you need to get past that. Because like Grit says your old marriage is dead.
Even if you get divorced and find someone new, you will have to start from scratch.
That HURT will still be there, it is not going to go away because of a piece of paper.
You are going to have to LEARN to trust again and build your R.
My feelings about this are that why shouldn't it be with the same person. Its the same work.
Also detachment is still KEY in all of this.
If that hurt is still there, then you have not yet learned complete detachment. You must learn it to complete the journey. Whether with this husband or another one.
Are your ready to face this yet?
Thanks Grit - some very good advice and things to think about. I will give that a lot of consideration. A LOT.
You're right, Lance, no matter what - if I'm ever going to be in ANY relationship I have to face many things.
I think I am pretty good and detached. I don't feel the hurt right now. That may seem awfully quick being that I didn't learn of the PA until last week, but deep down I knew. Finding out just made the detachment easier. That's the thing - to "undetach" and reconcile means pain. I imagine that to get back into a relationship H means undetaching...
Am I ready? Well, we all go into this kicking and screaming. I'm ready for tomorrow, and that's all I know for now: one day at a time!
Hey Sunny
The decision to trust again is a tough one.
I have not come to that part yet.
I ask myself what does it look like when I would consider letting my W back in my life.
What is healthy for us. More importantly
When is it healthy for us.
Yup... this is the key IMO.
I made a decision to trust again when we started piecing... and now I know my H was not in a healthy place. He had not done the work, he had not addressed what brought him there. So my trust should not have been given as it was.
Now, after I am moving on with my life and proceeding with D... now he brings up reconciliation again.
He is still not healthy. He has still not done the work.
So I am moving forward with my life, feeling stronger, more confident, and more at peace every day.
He is falling apart. That is no longer my problem. But I hope it causes him to do the work he needs to do.
You sound like you are in a strong, healthy place Sunny and you are handling yourself very well. When you are in this place and truly detached (which is always a process that I find takes a lot longer than you think) you can make the choices you need to make for yourself.
I also agree its a process of taking it slow, watching, observing, and focusing on you.
(((hugs)))
Something that was said to me when I "crossed over" into to what I refer to as self realization in all of this.
Just think how long that took for you to get there.
And you did it with a strong support group of people.
A process that IMO can be more effective than seeing an IC for your growth and healing...
Your H doesn't have that benefit.
He is on his own to figure it out. And figure it out he must before you will have a healthy relationship.
BUT
You were part of the dysfunction in your M so that part of it won't be brought back to the equation
A different you= a different relationship
Never discount the capacity for someone to grow. This process and what it teaches is capable of amazing things.
If you are detached, then time and patience can be an investment (not a sacrifice) maybe that you make in your M now?
Hey Sunny
The decision to trust again is a tough one.
I have not come to that part yet.
I ask myself what does it look like when I would consider letting my W back in my life.
What is healthy for us. More importantly
When is it healthy for us.
Yup... this is the key IMO.
I made a decision to trust again when we started piecing... and now I know my H was not in a healthy place. He had not done the work, he had not addressed what brought him there. So my trust should not have been given as it was.
Now, after I am moving on with my life and proceeding with D... now he brings up reconciliation again.
He is still not healthy. He has still not done the work.
So I am moving forward with my life, feeling stronger, more confident, and more at peace every day.
He is falling apart. That is no longer my problem. But I hope it causes him to do the work he needs to do.
You sound like you are in a strong, healthy place Sunny and you are handling yourself very well. When you are in this place and truly detached (which is always a process that I find takes a lot longer than you think) you can make the choices you need to make for yourself.
I also agree its a process of taking it slow, watching, observing, and focusing on you.
(((hugs)))
You're right: it is a process and sometimes you don't really know at what stage you're actually in until you get to the other side of it. You know what they say about hindsight!
It really IS a hard decision to trust and I am no where near ready to make that decision with H. Until he shows certain signs of doing the work I am not even ready to THINK about trusting him. The kids aren't either.
He is getting some IC so maybe that will help him get to a healthy place quicker. Whether he does or doesn't, my focus is on me and my three awesome kids! I don't know what makes them finally "get it" and snap out of the coma they've self-induced. Some never do, I suppose.
Something that was said to me when I "crossed over" into to what I refer to as self realization in all of this.
Just think how long that took for you to get there.
And you did it with a strong support group of people.
A process that IMO can be more effective than seeing an IC for your growth and healing...
Your H doesn't have that benefit.
He is on his own to figure it out. And figure it out he must before you will have a healthy relationship.
BUT
You were part of the dysfunction in your M so that part of it won't be brought back to the equation
A different you= a different relationship
Never discount the capacity for someone to grow. This process and what it teaches is capable of amazing things.
If you are detached, then time and patience can be an investment (not a sacrifice) maybe that you make in your M now?
I hadn't thought about that - having the support, etc... you do get to a healthier place much more quickly! Of course, that's because I was looking for the right kind of help and growth. While I was doing that, my H decided to look for his help in another woman. His decision and subsequent actions took him away from growth into destruction: took us ALL into destruction!
I DO think he can grow if he chooses to do so. Once again, it will come down to his choices on how to handle this. My job isn't to react to that but to steer my course (and thus that of the kids) to a healthy place regardless of what he chooses. SO...in that sense, I do know that time and patience is an investment. How much time? How much patience? I truly don't know but maybe that part is dependent on H. If I don't see any strides towards him becoming the man I want to spend my life with then I don't see giving him a long time to figure that out. I have a life to lead. BUT...that is something I just have to take stock in as I continue the process. I'm certainly not ready to just make a snap decision on that.
I think I am pretty good and detached. I don't feel the hurt right now. That may seem awfully quick being that I didn't learn of the PA until last week, but deep down I knew. Finding out just made the detachment easier.
Interesting.
Starsky
I think I am pretty good and detached. I don't feel the hurt right now. That may seem awfully quick being that I didn't learn of the PA until last week, but deep down I knew. Finding out just made the detachment easier.
Interesting.
True story in my case - maybe not for everyone. I guess at the point when he finally admitted it I had already made so many changes in myself and knew I was worthy of better. The fact that he could do that to me after I had done so much personal work towards myself and work towards our marriage and lie to my face - and plan and scheme... well.... it just made me see him in a different light: a none too flattering one.
Starsky
Well..dang...I didn't do the quote/reply right on that last post. It won't let me edit. oops.
My job isn't to react to that but to steer my course (and thus that of the kids) to a healthy place regardless of what he chooses.
Yahtzee!
You got it Sunny.
Sunny
I have a life to lead. BUT...that is something I just have to take stock in as I continue the process.
Yes you do...this is YOUR life. YOUR choices. This is YOUR future. Take your time.....
You'll know your next steps when your suppose to know them.
One day at a time.
Eric
Eric,
You mean I can't skip the next couple of days or 60 or so and wake up and all this be different?????
LOL
just kidding
I wish it were possible but that's not the way life works, I know. Gotta learn what we're supposed to learn!
Sunny,
all this be different?????
Yes...you choose how different.
You choose how to look at it
You choose how to respond to it
You choose how to receive it
You choose how to deal with it
You choose when "it" happens
You choose
Everything is your choice - other may say...everything is based on the perspective that you are looking at it from.
So what are your plans for the rest of the week?
Eric
SLEEEEP!
LOL
I have 2 sick boys at home - sleep has been at a minimum. YES, they are older but it doesn't matter. They want mom to pamper them, esp. with things as are and so I do, of course. :-)
I have a lot on the schedule this week with dr's appts, school, boys' activities, counseling appt., and a house that needs cleaned and a fridge that needs repaired. In other words, I've got plenty to keep me busy! OH: also a few things for myself - lunch with friends, my Wed. ladies class, and a term paper to keep me VERY busy!
I also have some football to watch but none of my teams are doing very well right now. :-(
On the serious side - I know you're right: I choose how it is different. I just meant that I didn't want to go through the process of all of it - being lazy. :-) It's just the tiredness talking... but man, it IS mentally exhausting at times! Sometimes you just want to "be" rather than "be different" and you have to fight it.
Sunny D
"Fight it" you must. Tired? Hey, when your six feet under you can rest. Get to it girl. LOL. I know how tough this is BUT you really should be proud of yourself.
Eric
Thanks, Eric! I've had a lot of help along the way. That's been a huge difference in just surviving this and growing through it!
Interesting convo with H today. He wants to work things out - is willing to be transparent, work a plan of recovery, etc... We did not discuss him moving home yet. Hmmm.....
Ok Sunny now you have been a duck (letting water run off your back)
Now
You are a turtle. Sloooooooooow.....
I hear ya, TG! I agree. It'll take me awhile to trust again, for sure.
That's great, Sunny. Slow and steady...
Still reading RR, Blue!!! I like it a lot and I think it would be helpful for H to do it as well. It's taking me awhile since I've had so much school work to deal with, but that's not such a bad idea. This way I'm not rushing through it to be "done".
Sunny
Just popin in to say hi and wishing you well.
As Grit said...slowwwww.....
I know you know you "got this".
Eric
Thanks, Eric! Wishing you well too. :-)
It's going slowwwwww all right, lol. That's good though, because I know what I'm looking for before I'm "all in" again.
You sound good Sunny!
Just poppin' by ...
PEI
Thanks, PEI!!! I appreciate your support. :-)
Just an update... things are going along smoothly yet still slowly, which is good. I am starting to see the man I know H to be this week. We've had a nice time together and the hope is coming through. We both agree we have a lot of work to do, but that's not a bad thing. We have to come to terms with what has happened and make the commitment that our relationship is going to be different - better - than ever.
Thinking about the A is still very painful for me. I try not to think about it, but of course, it's natural that it comes to mind.
Update....Although, not much change to report at this point.
Have been focusing on kids most of this week with homecoming (huge deal here) and D19 coming home from college for the weekend. Also, S14 has been having some depression issues so I'm watching that carefully.
H met me at the football game on Friday night. Saturday after I got the kids off to the homecoming dance he and I had dinner. It was nice. Sunday we went to the movies and played putt putt. Tonight the boys and I met him for dinner. It was the first time S16 had seen him since he left. It went well - nothing heavy - just friendly.
Overall I am seeing MUCH more of my husband back - the H I know and love. You can just tell in the eyes when they're truly there. We still have work to do, obviously, before he comes back home but I am feeling very hopeful that we can get past this.
So far we have been focusing more on reconnecting than working through the harder issues. I know we cannot ignore those, but I felt that in order to have the desire to get through those, you have to be motivated to do so. Now that I feel that bond is back, it is time to start dealing with more serious matters. (This doesn't mean, btw, that I haven't been confirming NC or asking for transparency, etc...)
H and I need to put a picture together of what our married life should (and will!) look like. We have to put together a plan to meet each other's needs and make our relationship a priority. I have to feel secure that he is doing everything he can to guard himself from infidelity both now and in the future. I'm sure he wants to make sure the changes I've made are going to stick.
So far I think things are going well. I still haven't let my guard down and am protecting myself. I guess I don't feel quite secure enough to just let H back in totally yet. I think that's healthy though because he has to EARN that.
I talked with someone at length today about my experiences through all of this: going from the bomb of ILYBNILWY to EA to PA...to separation....now reconciliation in the works. It has been a little over 6 months and it truly is hard to believe so much can happen in such a time span.
I've thought about the things I'm thankful for. I'm thankful that God has given me strength I NEVER knew I had! I'm thankful he put people in my life and things (such as this forum) where I could replenish that strength. I'm thankful for the 180 and GAL strategies. I truly believe that they helped greatly in that now that the A is finally over, H is able to see THAT Sunny - the new and improved one through the 180s and GAL - rather than the former Sunny that didn't have a lot of self-respect or backbone.
Mostly, I'm glad for what I've learned about what it takes to make a healthy marriage work - making it a priority in your life. I've also learned through all of this - my own personal experience - that there is absolutely no way you can save a marriage or even "work on" a marriage with a 3rd party in it. I know - I did my darndest! I worked harder at the dang marriage and thought for awhile that OW was out of the picture when she wasn't. Now that she is finally out of the picture, H and I have a real chance of not just saving our marriage, but making it a better, new marriage! Who wants the old one back??? I don't!
Being that I applied other, tough love kind of methods, I won't go into all of that. Many of you know where else to find me though, and are free to ask me anything as far as what I did, how I did it, and why I did it...and how it saved my marriage!
Now..I gotta get running...got a date with my H!
How long did it take to end the affair since you discovered it?
It says Jun 15 you found out.. When did your husband end contact with his other woman?
That's great, Sunny! I'm so happy that you guys are still trying to make a go of this.
I do think you have to mix both concepts -- the GAL and 180s along with the "tough stance" that some of Those Who Have Been Banished espouses here.
I'm glad it worked for you!
Starsky
How long did it take to end the affair since you discovered it?
It says Jun 15 you found out.. When did your husband end contact with his other woman?
June 15thish is when I found out there was an EA. Supposedly, after that was discovered H ended it and we were supposed to be "working on our relationship". We even went to a marriage retreat weekend and I was DBing (180s/GAL) right along during that whole time. I just felt things were not progressing much. H was participating more in the family, but I knew something wasn't quite right: not after that long period of time "working on things". So, about 4 weeks ago I went through H's cellphone and discovered texts and emails back and forth between H and OW! Not only had the EA not ended as H told me it had, it had gone physical! As you can imagine, I was pretty upset. I confronted H and he confirmed it. Before the week was out I had found out further information about the OW and disclosed the A to her husband and to others. The affair ended the day her husband found out. H had OW call me the same day and that's when I started confirming no contact between H and OW. I'm telling you: it's been a little less than a month and I already see traces of the man I married back. It took ending the affair for that fog to lift though.
That's great, Sunny! I'm so happy that you guys are still trying to make a go of this.
I do think you have to mix both concepts -- the GAL and 180s along with the "tough stance" that some of Those Who Have Been Banished espouses here.
I'm glad it worked for you!
Starsky
Yes, you're right...that's exactly what worked for me, balancing concepts. I needed to show H that I was a person to be respected again, which is what GAL and 180s were all about for me. I'm so thankful for a lot of good advice I got here during the summer and onward from some people who believed in me even when I didn't believe in myself - and gave me the courage to do what needed to be done!
Sorry...my quote/reply didn't come out on that last post and now I can't edit it. ????
June 15thish is when I found out there was an EA.
So, about 4 weeks ago I went through H's cellphone and discovered texts and emails back and forth between H and OW! Not only had the EA not ended as H told me it had, it had gone physical!
I confronted H and he confirmed it. Before the week was out I had found out further information about the OW and disclosed the A to her husband and to others. The affair ended the day her husband found out.
H had OW call me the same day and that's when I started confirming no contact between H and OW. I'm telling you: it's been a little less than a month and I already see traces of the man I married back. It took ending the affair for that fog to lift though.
Wow.. so you ended an affair in just four weeks?
That was daring but it's wonderful to hear... cogradulations!
An inspiring story I hope to learn from!:)
Clark (You never know when the blue tights will come out)