My wife informed me last night that she cheated.

I'm writing this as an absolute wreck right now, so please excuse me if I ramble. My wife told me last night that she cheated on me with a man she works with. It felt like someone sucked the wind right out of my lungs. I've never experienced pain and fear like that. I never even imagined that I could.

We've been having problems in our marriage for awhile now...probably a year, maybe more. We got married young, maybe too young, and my wife suffered the terrible tragedy of losing her father in a car accident during the very early stages of our relationship. She battled depression for many years. We've ben married for eight years now. Her depression made things difficult for us, but we got through it..or at least I thought we did.

We haven't had sex in three months now. Prior to that, our sex life was very inconsistent. We would regularly go weeks and sometimes months without making love. I didn't mind. I love so many other things about her and I chalked her lack of sex drive up to a naturally low libido mixed with depression. I was perfectly content to enjoy the other aspects of our relationship...the friendship, companionship, deep intimate connections...and I thought she was as well.

After the initial shock wore off last night, we had a long conversation. I'm a terribly rational person and the only way things make sense to me is to break them down into a calm logical discussion. What I learned from this was that she is completely happy with every part of our relationship except for the sex. She said that she didn't find me attractive anymore and that there was no spark when we touched or kissed. This hurt so badly that I nearly fell apart again. She said the one time encounter with the other man was to get her sexual feelings out of her system so that she could appreciate the other things in her life better.

I don't want to divorce. I love my wife. I love our life together. I love our home. I love going to movies together, Cooking together and just laying on the couch watching television together. I have had, in my past, highly satisfying sexual relationships. I have never found another woman who I connected with like my wife. I've never been able to share what I share with her with anyone else. I've never felt more accepted. I will give up sex forever. I don't care. I just can't lose that intimacy.

Please, someone, anyone, help me. Tell me there is hope.

OK

First and most important question :

What is the status of the other person?

Is she continuing to persue him or was this a one time thing and she won't be doing it again?

You completely left out the status of the affair itself.. is it ongoing or has she taken the steps to end it?

Did she show remorse or did she just casually tell you "its over" and is going right back in to work?

You can repair a marriage after infideilty, but NOT if its ogoing.. ALL CONTACT with the affair partner MUST END completely

What is the state of their contact NOW?

Is THAt over yet or is she working with him every day still?

LasombraNight,

There is hope! Sorry you find yourself here, but it's a great place to start.

First off, stop blaming yourself. Your W cheated, it's her issue not yours. She can blame it on you about not "making" her feel attracted to you, etc. but in the end, she made the decision to do it and it's the most selfish thing someone could ever do.

STOP the crazy talk about giving up sex. That's the problem she "told" you so ending it isn't going to do much good.

Second, forget about the "marrying young" part. Lots of people marry young and are able to work things out. Age has nothing to do with commitment.

Could you fill us in on your R a little bit more? What were some of the sore spots? Also, fill in an address line with your age, your wife's, how many years married and together, whether you have kids, etc.

It'll help us in giving you the right type of advice.

Next I would suggest you read the Divorce Remedy and Sex Starved Marriage as soon as possible. It'll help you to see what we're talking about on these boards.

Is she still seeing the guy?

They work at the same company but in different departments. She says the affair happened only once and I do believe her. She was genuinely remorseful and apologetic for lying to me and for hurting me. I don't believe she feels sorry for sleeping with another man. I think she feels like she was somehow justified in doing that because of all the troubles we've had in our marriage.

What troubles me most is that she says she is no longer attracted to me physically. Everything else in our relationship works great. Everyone who knows us believes we are the perfect couple and if you take sex out of the equation, they're right. She feels as though she needs to go elsewhere to satisfy that need/desire.

I'm 32, she's 28. We married eight years ago. We have no children, by choice. We both graduated from college and were working in our chosen fields for about four years. I lost my job almost 2 years ago and am still looking. She lost hers not long after but found another job with a greatly reduced salary. I mention that because many of our problems, I believe, stem from a general dissatisfaction she has with her life. She has always had an inferiority complex and has always felt like she was a failure because she wasn't living up to the lifestyle expectations her mother placed upon her. That was when she was working in her field. Now that she's working just a job, that feeling is compounded and it has caused us to have arguments. These arguments are over silly things, but I believe deep down, they're really about her feelings of failure. She gets these ideas in her head, that one thing is causing her problems and there's no changing her mind it seems. Even when evidence suggests the complete opposite.

I'm not without blame in this situation. I own that and I accept that. I'm ashamed to admit it, but in January of this year I went into a drunken binge and became violent with my wife. I never hit her but I scared her badly. I don't drink at all normally. I drank that night because my grandmother, who practically raised me, had died and my father was hospitalized within a few days of each other. I didn't handle it well. I haven't had a drink since and I never will. I don't know if she's really forgiven me for that night even though she says she has.

I picked up Divorce Remedy, Sex Starved Marriage and Divorce Busting from Barnes & Noble.

Quote:

I'm ashamed to admit it, but in January of this year I went into a drunken binge and became violent with my wife. I never hit her but I scared her badly. I don't drink at all normally. I drank that night because my grandmother, who practically raised me, had died and my father was hospitalized within a few days of each other. I didn't handle it well. I haven't had a drink since and I never will. I don't know if she's really forgiven me for that night even though she says she has.

If it was just once, and you didn't hit her, who cares if she has forgiven you? So... you're not perfect? Well, welcome to Planet Earth. None of us living on this planet are perfect.

Keep looking for another job, take a lower paying job if you have to do that.

Quote:

She said that she didn't find me attractive anymore and that there was no spark when we touched or kissed.

This is the real problem. Why do you want to be married to somebody who doesn't love and respect you?

First off, your W doesn't respect you because if she really dissatisfied with her life as you claim (personally I think you've overinflated this), then she's looking for a strong male figure to support her emotionally and financially.

You are currently unemployed and went into a drinking binge. Which pretty much destroyed the two things she needed the most. I suspect it's the trigger that stopped the sex.

She's looking for someone else for validation of her own character. She's looking for a MAN. What have you done on a positive note to show this?

How hard have you been looking for a job? The OM built up her self-esteem. What have you done to do the same?

From what you describe, she's not just unsatisfied with her life, she's unsatisfied with your lives together.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

You are currently unemployed and went into a drinking binge. Which pretty much destroyed the two things she needed the most. I suspect it's the trigger that stopped the sex.

I agree. Things haven't been the same since that night. All of my life I have been the strong, confident, in control man she needed. I took care of things. I never let her know when I was hesitant or uncertain. That all fell apart when my grandmother died. I lost it for that night and I'm terrified that it has cost me everything that matters in my life.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

How hard have you been looking for a job? The OM built up her self-esteem. What have you done to do the same?

I've been looking very hard. It is rare that I don't send out 3-5 resumes in a week. I've gone on at least 15 interviews with no luck. I've even applied for retail jobs only to be told that I'm over qualified. It's really tough.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

From what you describe, she's not just unsatisfied with her life, she's unsatisfied with your lives together.

This is where you're wrong. We're both incredibly happy in every part of our lives together other than the sex life. Everything else works great. It's just this part that is causing us a major problem.

Quote:

We're both incredibly happy in every part of our lives together

Umm... your wife told you she isn't attracted to you and had an affair.

Originally Posted By: TimeHeals

Quote:

We're both incredibly happy in every part of our lives together

Umm... your wife told you she isn't attracted to you and had an affair.

Yes, I realize that. I acknowledge that the sexual aspect of our relationship isn't working. But that is only part of our relationship. To me, the intimate moments, the shared time, the support and common goals/interests are equally if not more important and those things work great.

Quote:

Yes, I realize that. I acknowledge that the sexual aspect of our relationship isn't working.

She doesn't respect you. That's more than just a sexual problem.

Originally Posted By: TimeHeals

Quote:

Yes, I realize that. I acknowledge that the sexual aspect of our relationship isn't working.

She doesn't respect you. That's more than just a sexual problem.

But how do we fix the problem?

Quote:

But how do we fix the problem?

You worry about YOU. You can't fix her.

I would re-double my job search. I would make a list of 10 things I am grateful for every single day. I would establish a fitness routine if I didn't already have one. I would get regular sleep.

I would watch old Cary Grant comedies and figure out how to be classy, confident and charming.

"We're both incredibly happy in every part of our lives together other than the sex life. Everything else works great. It's just this part that is causing us a major problem."

Let's face it. If you two were incredibly happy, she wouldn't have had sex with OM. It's more about just physical sex, it's how you maker her feel as a woman. From the way you described things, you sound more like her best girlfriend than her HUSBAND. There's a difference.

The "sexual aspect" is emotional, physical, etc. She will want to have sex with you based on how you make her feel. Not just your physical attractiveness. Let's face it. If she wasn't attracted to you, she wouldn't have married you in the first place.

That's one of the first things you have to learn. Are you the man she would want to be with? When two people have been together with each other for a long time, attractiveness WILL wane. It's a fact of life. What else have you offered her that stimulated her in ways other than physical?

Guys, you forgot to mention a few things :

a. LK, you need to get some firm boundaries in place to protect your home from this affair happening again.
b. LK, you need to inform your wife you need her to open up her email accounts and cell phone records for you to feel safe again
c. LK, you need to invite your wife to attend family therapy first.

Until this affair is OVER... And I don't believe her... Yet... You need to be in protection mode and keep a CLOSE eye on her.

Ignore all the excuses about why the affair happened. You can explore that later. Do the necessary work to CONFIRM :

a. The affair IS OVER
b. That a rough patch in your marriage WON'T lead to this again

Once that is confirmed, outside of you just asking your wife "is it over" and "please don't do this again", then you can do the repair work.

I don't see much point in even touching Sex Starved Wife or any other text on Sex until you are CONFIDENT BEYOND BELIEF that this affair IS at an end.

What precautions is your wife taking LK to ensure this won't resurface at work again?

Is your wife looking for work elsewhere?

Has the OM's wife been informed?

Is he moving to a new location?

Anything changing at WORK to safeguard this marriage?

AA,

While I'm not saying that he shouldn't do anything about the A, he should also go back and see what the real problems were in the R also.

Alot of your stuff is so centered around a person's A that it almost becomes obsessive.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

AA,

While I'm not saying that he shouldn't do anything about the A, he should also go back and see what the real problems were in the R also.

A lot of your stuff is so centered around a person's A that it almost becomes obsessive.

According to most infidelity experts I've read repairing a marriage is next to impossible with an ongoing affair in the midst of it. Changes right NOW won't register all that much.

And did it ever occur to you Bond that I may be trying to OFFSET what is MISSING on this forum?

Who on earth said I don't support people making changes in themselves? I most certainly didn't.. And I HAVE advocated people changing themselves AS WELL AS combating the infidelity taking place.

"Obsessive?" I am simply working hard to offer a balance to a forum that doesn't press the panic button hard enough when someone threatens their family.

Committed is more accurate. And who on earth appointed me the sole voice for this forum anyways? Why on earth can't I offer targeted advice to a poster and leave the "work on you" stuff to yourself or someone else?

I am getting pretty frustrated with people and their amateur criticism in a visitor's thread to boot.

If you have issues with my posts or strategies Bond then open up a thread and stop picking fights where they don't belong.

Help the person above or take it outside please.

I will not reply to your criticisms of my posts any longer here.. I welcome them in a thread you create for that discussion... But I won't do it here.

Thank you

R-E-L-A-X

Did I try to pick a fight? Of course not. And back off with the "amateur" criticisms.

LaSombraKnight,

Do you and your W have pretty open talks?

Just help the poster's Bond... Just help the posters...

Way ahead of you.

Both Bond & Allen give excellent advice and you will be wise to listen and follow.

My POV is from the WAW. The first thing I want to point out is that everything you mentioned that you loved in the MR could easily be satisfied (for her anyway) with a close girlfriend. So, it is extremly important to regain and keep a good sexual life together. (BTW, I really do understand what you were pointing out about all those other things that you enjoy with her.) But as someone has already told you, don't settle for a MR without sex.

The next thing I want to point out is that you cannot believe everything she tells you. I know you want to do that and you chose to believe her.....but you cannot afford to continue to do so. For one thing, she's a WAW in an A. Even if she has not walked away from the house...she's walked away from you & the M. She's been unfaithful to you. Repenting of her A is good and she probably did not set out to intentionally hurt you....but the fact is that she's not through with OM. You won't want to believe me, and I get that....but I'm trying to brace you for what's to come. You can't accept her at her "word" b/c she has been untrustworthy and she's cheated...that makes her a liar. Listen, I used to get very angry when Puppy would tell posters that "all cheaters lie" b/c I thought I had never lied to my LBH. Well....duh! I may not have told him a verbal lie, but man, did I lie through withholding information and hiding behind his back.

This is not the girl you M. You have to change how you deal with things from this point on, or you will not bust a D. That is what our goal will be...to help you do so.

You need a plan, ASAP. You need to get the Divorce Remedy tomorrow, if possible. You can read articles from Michele here on her board, and several forums have the first chapter in her books. Reading other threads would be very helpful...and be sure to post here every day.

I suggest that you do not make any moves until you run it by the board. The reason I say this is b/c sometimes Newcomers act before they have all the information and then it's hard to recover from that. We do, of course, expect you to think for yourself...but you are going to hear things that may not sound "logical" to your reasoning brain. Very much of what is said will probably sound the opposite of what you thought one should do in cases such as this.

Can you tell us why your W just suddenly decided to tell you about her A?

We've also learned that most WAW's will not tell you the "complete" truth about their A. What did you say to her or how did you respond? She could have either been testing you to see how you'd react to the news....or else the A has taken a new level. You would like to think that guilt drove her to tell you, but I doubt it did.

All you have to do is read hundreds & hundreds of threads here on the board and you will quickly see how it seems as if you are reading the same story over & over again.

LBH's gets the news of the A one day and the news of D the next. That is why you need to get informed ASAP. I know you probably won't want to do so, but you really need to get informed about the A and if it is still alive. I think you'll discover that it is. Do not let your W know what you are doing! Do not over-react to anything you may find b/c you will need to save that information. If you do not keep it from her, then she will lie her way out of it. You can get phone records, install a keyboad divice, etc. But you've got to be smart about becoming a detective.

Quote:

We haven't had sex in three months now

I would look at that as a timeline when the A started. And, if she should suddenly get real interested in having sex again, you need to use protection b/c she's been with OM....and b/c she'll probably be scared she's pregnant. Sorry to be so blunt, but have to warn you. I am suspicious of why she decided to spill her gut.

I know that sounds so awful, but it is necessary if you are going to fight for your M. You may not discover anything right away (especially if her and OM had a fight...and that may be her reason for telling you of the A), but sooner or later....it will show up.

She cannot be attracted to you sexually if she doesn't respect you, first, as a man. Be sure you are the man she married....physically, emotionally, etc. Something caused her to lose interest in being intimate with you. It may take a therapist finding out the truth, but before that happens....you've got to bust the A. Don't even consider MC until you know that she's over OM. It won't work if there is a third party involved.

Quote:

I'm a terribly rational person and the only way things make sense to me is to break them down into a calm logical discussion.

You will want to fix things by talking with her. It won't work. You'll keep trying b/c you work that way, but it won't be successful. You cannot talk to her about the R b/c it will push her away. You don't talk. If she wants to talk to you, fine....but you just listen...don't talk.

What concerns me the most is how you sounded as if after the long talk....she convinced you to be her best friend....instead of her lover. That is called cake eating. She has the best of both worlds. Don't settle, don't ever settle!

If you don't like Carey Grant in comedies, watch Clark Gable in Gone With the Wind. If ever I could use a screen image to relay what I think most women fantasize in a male....it's him. Not his looks....but "him". JMHO, of course. BTW, if you should watch that movie to observe him....be SURE you catch the very last sentence that Brett Butler says to Scarlett O'Hara, when he goes out the door and she's crying about what she'll do and he says, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". If you ever read or catch Part II, you'll see where Scarlett spends the next several years trying to win Brett back. In the end...she finally did, but the point I'm making is that she did not really want him until he was through with her. Hummmmm......

Originally Posted By: MrBond

LaSombraKnight,

Do you and your W have pretty open talks?

We've always been very open in our communication with one another. That is probably the strongest part of our relationship. To my knowledge, this affair is the only thing she's ever kept from me.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

But as someone has already told you, don't settle for a MR without sex.

I hear you. I just wonder if it makes me an odd ball because I really don't care much at all about sex. I wonder why we can't maintain our relationship on the other things.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

Can you tell us why your W just suddenly decided to tell you about her A?

We've also learned that most WAW's will not tell you the "complete" truth about their A. What did you say to her or how did you respond?

We'd been having arguments over silly things lately. It was as though she were trying to pick a fight with me. Ultimately it was just that. I came home the other night after one of those seemingly insignificant fights and she was waiting for me on the couch. She first told me that she wasn't attracted to me anymore. I asked if she loved me. She said yes, but not that way. The conversation went on for a bit and she told me about the affair. After the initial shock of that revelation wore off, I did as I always do. We sat down and began to discuss the situation rationally.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

You can get phone records, install a keyboad divice, etc. But you've got to be smart about becoming a detective.

That just seems paranoid and dishonest for me. Even through all of this, I still respect her and her privacy. I couldn't snoop on her like that. It just isn't me. It also seems as though it would put us on an adversarial ground when we're both willing to work on things currently.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

I would look at that as a timeline when the A started.

I agree. That's also about the time that I lost control in my depression fueled drinking binge.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

She cannot be attracted to you sexually if she doesn't respect you, first, as a man. Be sure you are the man she married....physically, emotionally, etc. Something caused her to lose interest in being intimate with you.

That makes sense. I know I haven't been the same man over the last year and a half. I lost my job. I lost my Grandmother. I nearly lost my Father. I was diagnosed with Chrone's Disease. All of that took a toll on me. Changed me. I want to get through it and get back to who I was before. I just don't know how.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

What concerns me the most is how you sounded as if after the long talk....she convinced you to be her best friend....instead of her lover. That is called cake eating. She has the best of both worlds. Don't settle, don't ever settle!

I've thought about leaving for awhile. Going to stay in a hotel and cutting off communication with my wife for a little bit. I don't know if that's a good move or not. I fear that it would only make things worse. I'm not sure how to put my foot down on this tightrope I'm walking. I know how she responds to ultimatums and it isn't well. I worry that if I told her this is the way it is or I'm gone, she'd just tell me to go out of spite and our marriage would be over.

If you're not interested in sex, then could your lack thereof be because of you? For a male to say that is a big thing.

When you stop showing your W that you want to have sex with her, you are showing her that you don't find her desirable.

If that was the case, then it's no wonder why she sought out another man. Without the sex you're just another "friend".

Originally Posted By: MrBond

If you're not interested in sex, then could your lack thereof be because of you? For a male to say that is a big thing.

When you stop showing your W that you want to have sex with her, you are showing her that you don't find her desirable.

If that was the case, then it's no wonder why she sought out another man. Without the sex you're just another "friend".

Don't get me wrong. It isn't that I'm uninterested, it's just that sex isn't the dominant desire for my wife. I do show her that I want her and that I want to have sex with her. I tell her frequently how beautiful and sexy I find her. It's just that if I had no other choice but to live without sex in my marriage, I could.

Sex is the easy part. I've had great sexual relationships in the past but I've never had the intimate connection I have with my wife.

"it's just that sex isn't the dominant desire for my wife."

Maybe it is. Maybe this is how she shows her sense of worth. If she has low self-esteem as you say, she might use the sex as a way of self-affirmation.

How are your day to day interactions? Any other methods of intimacy like hugs, touching, etc.?

Have you ever read the 5 Love Languages book?

LasombraKnight,

With all the changes that have happened, have you physically changed a lot? Is your physical appearance less attractive to your W now - were you a snappy dresser and now you dress down? Were you physically toned before and well groomed but now you have let yourself go? Do you feel worthy of your W's respect? Do you feel worthy of your W?

What makes a M work differs for each couple, but what your W did does seem to imply that a sexual connection IS important to her - more important to her than it is to you. You need to make her desire you again. You need to pinpoint what it is you have lost in that area, ( and my guess would be your 'masculine edge' and your self respect). It sounds like perhaps you have so much guilt from the drunken night incident and your job situation, that you are going round like a dog skulking and expecting to be, (and thinking it deserves to be), kicked.

Man up would be my suggestion.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

You can get phone records, install a keyboad divice, etc. But you've got to be smart about becoming a detective.

Originally Posted By: LasombraKnight

That just seems paranoid and dishonest for me. Even through all of this, I still respect her and her privacy. I couldn't snoop on her like that. It just isn't me. It also seems as though it would put us on an adversarial ground when we're both willing to work on things currently.

Privacy: closing the door to poop
Secrets: keeping the poop from your spouse

One is good. (healthy boundaries)
One is bad. (unhealthy boundaries)

(to paraphrase a PDT)

Trust is earned. She has told you that she is unworthy of your trust.

Personally, I would trust but verify. Find out if she told you the truth. (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) If she did, great no harm no foul.

If she didn't, confront and set boundaries.

She got a big sigh of relief by admitting her affair. She probably didn't tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

SpinFree

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"it's just that sex isn't the dominant desire for my wife."

Maybe it is. Maybe this is how she shows her sense of worth. If she has low self-esteem as you say, she might use the sex as a way of self-affirmation.

How are your day to day interactions? Any other methods of intimacy like hugs, touching, etc.?

Have you ever read the 5 Love Languages book?

Our day to day interactions are good for the most part. We call each other throughout the day, we go to lunch together often, we have regular dates out. We hold hands, we cuddle on the couch, she sleeps on my chest at night. We never hang up a phone or leave the house without saying "I love you".

Kissing might be problematic. We kiss each other goodbye every morning and goodnight every night. But it is rarely the passionate kind of kiss.

I hear you. I just wonder if it makes me an odd ball because I really don't care much at all about sex. I wonder why we can't maintain our relationship on the other things.

It would seem to me that you have the most important part of the relationship intact. Clearly your W is either hurt,angry or confused in a way which made her choose to engage in an extramarital sexual liaison.

Since you have this fabulous emotional tie and since your W finally had the courage to tell you of her infidelity, it seems to be a question of figuring out what prompted it and whether it is something you both can work on together.

If she is not moving out and you want the marriage to work and if you have a reasonably intimate emotional tie still, there might still be hope.

The key I would think is to start listening very carefully.When she talks really try to understand and to reflect back to her what you understand her to say.

Forgive me if I am wrong but it seems that she was not able to easily come to the table with the news of the affair. She tried to provoke you into acting in a way which might either justify her or prompt her into revealing the ugly truth.

The choice to have an affair is a hard one to live with it would seem. Pinning it on a fault with you is the next easiest way to make the admission of guilt.

The next most important key would be to focus on yourself. Make yourself happy and attractive to be with. Create a life for yourself that she would want to share, drawn like a moth to a candle (with better results).

Don't make conversations about you. Let her talk. Draw her out. Make it safe for her to what she really needs to say.

You might consider a sex therapist after a while.

All is not lost. Sex is only one part of marriage. Often its the other stuff which is harder to come by.

Originally Posted By: saffie

LasombraKnight,

With all the changes that have happened, have you physically changed a lot? Is your physical appearance less attractive to your W now - were you a snappy dresser and now you dress down? Were you physically toned before and well groomed but now you have let yourself go? Do you feel worthy of your W's respect? Do you feel worthy of your W?

I went through a depressed phase after losing my job where I kind of got sloppy. Also, having Crohn's Disease and not knowing it did affect my lifestyle. That's gotten better now that I've been diagnosed and am taking medication. I have more energy and I work out more often. I actually feel like dressing better and looking better.

Originally Posted By: saffie

You need to pinpoint what it is you have lost in that area, ( and my guess would be your 'masculine edge' and your self respect). It sounds like perhaps you have so much guilt from the drunken night incident and your job situation, that you are going round like a dog skulking and expecting to be, (and thinking it deserves to be), kicked.

I think you may be on to something with this. I am not the self confident, in control, powerful man I was when we married.

I come form a working class family. Those values of a man always having a job and supporting his family are deeply ingrained in me. Not having a job and being rejected by so many has really taken a toll on me.

I also feel terrible for my actions the night I lost control. I was a monster that night and I feel awful about it. I do feel like I deserve to be kicked. I was always my wife's protector and I turned into a threat. I regret that more than anything in my life.

Originally Posted By: saffie

Man up would be my suggestion.

How do I do that in this situation? Do I throw down an ultimatum? Do I leave if she doesn't comply? I just don't know what to do. I've never been more confused in my life.

Originally Posted By: freema

I hear you. I just wonder if it makes me an odd ball because I really don't care much at all about sex. I wonder why we can't maintain our relationship on the other things.

It would seem to me that you have the most important part of the relationship intact. Clearly your W is either hurt,angry or confused in a way which made her choose to engage in an extramarital sexual liaison.

Since you have this fabulous emotional tie and since your W finally had the courage to tell you of her infidelity, it seems to be a question of figuring out what prompted it and whether it is something you both can work on together.

If she is not moving out and you want the marriage to work and if you have a reasonably intimate emotional tie still, there might still be hope.

The key I would think is to start listening very carefully.When she talks really try to understand and to reflect back to her what you understand her to say.

Forgive me if I am wrong but it seems that she was not able to easily come to the table with the news of the affair. She tried to provoke you into acting in a way which might either justify her or prompt her into revealing the ugly truth.

The choice to have an affair is a hard one to live with it would seem. Pinning it on a fault with you is the next easiest way to make the admission of guilt.

The next most important key would be to focus on yourself. Make yourself happy and attractive to be with. Create a life for yourself that she would want to share, drawn like a moth to a candle (with better results).

Don't make conversations about you. Let her talk. Draw her out. Make it safe for her to what she really needs to say.

You might consider a sex therapist after a while.

All is not lost. Sex is only one part of marriage. Often its the other stuff which is harder to come by.

Thank you. That makes alot of sense.

"We kiss each other goodbye every morning and goodnight every night. But it is rarely the passionate kind of kiss."

Have you thought about taking the initiative and give her that passion? Maybe it's the excitement she's missing.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"We kiss each other goodbye every morning and goodnight every night. But it is rarely the passionate kind of kiss."

Have you thought about taking the initiative and give her that passion? Maybe it's the excitement she's missing.

I thought about that and I tried last night. She seemed very disappointed and said she just didn't feel it. Maybe it is the timing because we were having a bad night last night still dealing with her revelation.

Yes way too soon.

Has she actually told you WHY she doesn't find you attractive physically? Many times they are just reflecting their own insecurities onto the spouse.

Have you talked to her concerning transparency with the OM?

Quote:

I come form a working class family. Those values of a man always having a job and supporting his family are deeply ingrained in me. Not having a job and being rejected by so many has really taken a toll on me.

Okay, now we are getting someplace. This says a lot to me. It also sounds as if you've endured rejection from other family members or friends? Take that and add to the depression and add to your disease and you have a lot of junk bogging your spirit down.

Have you talked openly to your doctor? Some men find it hard to admit depression, but your doctor needs to know about it. All of this stuff added together is enough to make anyone's self-confidence flush down the toliet. It has to have an affect on your sex drive, don't you think? I won't say you are an odd ball, but I'd say it's rare to see a man who is into all the emotional intimacy and a low sex drive. Maybe it's just rare to hear one admit it? IDK.

It is hard to get all the information into a few posts, so don't get discouraged and give up. It takes time for board members to say all that needs to be said, and time for you to read and digest it. Continue to read the threads here on the forum and you will start to grow. Just don't quit us, okay?

Quote:

Originally Posted By: saffie
Man up would be my suggestion.

How do I do that in this situation? Do I throw down an ultimatum? Do I leave if she doesn't comply? I just don't know what to do. I've never been more confused in my life.

Be the man you once were. Work on your self confidence. Work on your appearance. Find who it was she once fell in love with in the first place.

I wouldn't be throwing down ultimatums - well not unless you are willing to follow through. Never threaten something you won't follow through - you just end up looking like a complete tool if you do that.

Seems to me you W felt bad about what happened re the ONS - and she told you about it. It doesn't make it ok, but it sort of indicates to me that she is trying to be open and honest with you - which is a great start.

You can't change her but you can change YOU. I personally think you need to work on your self confidence. Start dressing smarter and act more confident - even if inside you don't feel it. Women want a man they can respect. I know that for most men their work is strongly attached to who they feel they are and how they judge their worth......but there is so much more to you than that.

My H will 'allow' me to pretty much go along as I like, but I know there are certain boundaries that I wouldn't cross - maybe it's quite different for me as I am a SAHM and I have a pretty good life, so I respect my H's decisions on some things even though I may disagree with them. I like it that he has this 'edge' to him though; I wouldn't respect him if he was a push over. When something BIG comes along though, we tackle it as a team.

In summary though I guess I am saying, become the man who your W is proud to have on her arm, the man she would want to 'ravish 'her, NOT the one that whimpers in the corner and begs forgiveness. You did what you did re the getting drunk etc. There were reasons. It's been and gone.

Get up and act like the man in your house.

There is a book called No More Mr Nice Guy - perhaps you need to read it. It can be a bit extreme, and you need only take from it what you need.

"In summary though I guess I am saying, become the man who your W is proud to have on her arm, the man she would want to 'ravish 'her, ..."

rav�ish
Spelled[rav-ish]
�verb (used with object)
1. to fill with strong emotion, esp. joy.
2. to seize and carry off by force.
3. to carry off (a woman) by force.
4. to rape (a woman).

Assume we mean 1. on the above list ;-)

Some W's (even the privileged SAHMs) work themselves up into a very sorry state that's impossible to change no matter what in the world you do. So just in case this W is in that state it would be best to first use the little energy you have left to work yourself up into a state just for your OWN good, not hers. Her job as a W was to build you up when you lost your job and she failed miserably. So meanwhile she can use her old Guicci bag on her arm for all you care (i.e, focus on ravishing yourself ;-). And realistically you cannot be or look likelike the man she fell "in-love" with - that man's long gone and was probably not real in the first place - may well have been a figment of her imagination.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

Yes way too soon.

Has she actually told you WHY she doesn't find you attractive physically? Many times they are just reflecting their own insecurities onto the spouse.

Have you talked to her concerning transparency with the OM?

We talked about that last night. I think it was a good conversation because we started getting to the roots and causes of her feelings toward me. Some of them I don't agree with but I at least understand them. I'm hoping that through understanding we can find healing. As I said, I'm a very logical person...sometimes to a fault.

First thing that came up is that she hasn't forgiven me for losing control. I said and did some very nasty things some of them true, most of them not. I was a monster, I know. It only happened a few months ago and she's having a difficult time with it. She said that she never imagined in her worst nightmares that I could turn into that guy and now that's all she sees when she looks at me. How do I get her to let go of this?

The second thing was a bit more difficult for me to wrap my head around, but I sense sincerity in her words. She said that she was angry with me or that she resented me because I was present during the worst times of her life (when she lost her father in a car accident and battled depression for several years) and she associated me with those bad feelings. She said that I reminded her of those times that she desperately wants to forget. How do I get through to her that I was a good force during those times? How do I get her to stop associating me with those times and to start connecting me with her getting through them?

There's alot of anger in my wife's heart. She's angry at alot of things. She's angry that her career has stalled. She's angry that my career is off the rails. She's angry that we're struggling financially. She's angry because she's getting older and she feels she hasn't done anything with her life. She's chosen to focus all that anger at me, I suppose because I'm the only thing she can lash out at. What do I do about this?

Quote:

She said that she was angry with me or that she resented me because I was present during the worst times of her life (when she lost her father in a car accident and battled depression for several years) and she associated me with those bad feelings. She said that I reminded her of those times that she desperately wants to forget. How do I get through to her that I was a good force during those times? How do I get her to stop associating me with those times and to start connecting me with her getting through them?

Have you read "The Time Paradox" by Philip Zimbardo?

Check one out from the library, or pick up a personal copy and leave that laying around.

"What do I do about this?"

Nothing.

You can't do anything about it. Your W has chosen you as being the choice of her pain. That stuff about her saying that you are a reminder of the bad times in her life are total BS. Did you ever tell her that you were also the reminder of the best times in her life as well?

Best and ballsiest thing to do is tell her. "Sorry that you see me as a constant reminder of all the pain in your life. I love you enough that I don't want to see you in pain, so I release you from our marriage to do what you think makes you happy." Then start packing her stuff.

That will turn her around because she can no longer blame you. Personal responsibility is what it comes down to.

Quote:

That will turn her around because she can no longer blame you

LOL. She can no longer blame him for being around to remind her

Whether or not she ever accepts responsibility for her own happiness or turns around...? I guess that depends on her

I only say that because some people stay stuck... seen it first hand too many times.

I meant that it will turn her around in terms of his attitude. He has to stop accepting what she's feeding him.

Quote:

He has to stop accepting what she's feeding him.

I see what you are saying here. She continues to use his big drunk as her leverage....and he keeps buying into it b/c of his guilt. But then she gets waaaay out there and is totally unreal about reminding her of sad times!

I know how women can keep bringing up things in the past....and she will, as long as she can get away with it.

Let me share something that kind of backfired when I was standing at the crossroads. I was not a willing partner, to say the least, and I was not about to let my H "shame" me about my EA with OM......so I told him that I would not even listen to him or talk to him unless we agreed to not bring up things in the past that had been hashed and rehased. He quickly agreed to that...b/c frankly, he was tried of hearing me b!tch about the same old stuff. Well, I found out that it was a lot harder for me to stick to that agreement than it ever was for him! But here's the thing....I learned that I could move forward without always refering to the past. I stopped throwing up his "failures" and my "disappointments".

I wished I knew how to say this better, but when in this kind of stitch....the LBH needs to have a "point of reference" in the R and tell his WAW that he has apologized for his wrong doing and that he's sorry for the pain she's had as a result of his actions (even if they were good intentions, like supporting her during death of family, etc.), but from THIS POINT ON....he will not repeat his apology and he will not continue to rehash what has happened in the past. The past is just that....past. Nothing can change it and to live in this tortured state will only bring more pain for the future. Then he can ask his WAW if she is willing for them to start at THIS POINT ON in moving forward together. If she is not willing....or if she starts all over again bringing up the past...then that is a sign that things will not get better until she has professional help. (There is a reason the scripture has "stubborness" and "witchcraft" in the same verse.) She needs to get off her high-horse and stop acting so entitled and look in the mirror!!!

Originally Posted By: TimeHeals

[

Have you read "The Time Paradox" by Philip Zimbardo?

Check one out from the library, or pick up a personal copy and leave that laying around.

No, but I can pick it up.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"What do I do about this?"

Nothing.

You can't do anything about it. Your W has chosen you as being the choice of her pain. That stuff about her saying that you are a reminder of the bad times in her life are total BS. Did you ever tell her that you were also the reminder of the best times in her life as well?

Best and ballsiest thing to do is tell her. "Sorry that you see me as a constant reminder of all the pain in your life. I love you enough that I don't want to see you in pain, so I release you from our marriage to do what you think makes you happy." Then start packing her stuff.

That will turn her around because she can no longer blame you. Personal responsibility is what it comes down to.

I'm not ready for that. I want to fix this and restore our relationship. I don't care what the problems are or who started it all. I don't want retribution. I don't want vengeance. I don't want to even the score. I just want my marriage back.

Quote:

I don't want retribution. I don't want vengeance. I don't want to even the score.

How about peace?

?I want to fix this and restore our relationship. I don't care what the problems are or who started it all. I don't want retribution. I don't want vengeance. I don't want to even the score. I just want my marriage back."

There sure are alot of "I"s in that statement. Again it's not in your control. She is choosing to paint you as the bad guy. Unless she goes to therapy or chooses to start saying "hey my H isn't why I'm feeling this way" she's not going to change.

Think of it this way. She has told you that she sees you as the source or reminder of her "pain". When she looks up, there you are in her face trying to make her happy and work on the M. Do you think she really wants that?

Nothing you do is going to "make" her feel happy. She's going to have to get to that point on her own. Leave her alone. Packing her bags just serves as a catalyst. If you're in her face then she doesn't have to look at herself as being the source of her own misery. You're happy to be the scapegoat.

If you want your W back, then you've got to move out of the way.

"I know how women can keep bringing up things in the past....and she will, as long as she can get away with it."
Lots of wisdom in this.

As a LBH who has recently started piecing with my FWW, I wanted to give you my perspective.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

the LBH needs to have a "point of reference" in the R and tell his WAW that he has apologized for his wrong doing and that he's sorry for the pain she's had as a result of his actions...but from THIS POINT ON....he will not repeat his apology and he will not continue to rehash what has happened in the past. The past is just that....past. Nothing can change it and to live in this tortured state will only bring more pain for the future. Then he can ask his WAW if she is willing for them to start at THIS POINT ON in moving forward together.

As usual Sandi is spot on in fact you will find that Sandi is always spot on. She was a WAW so take what she says as gospel. Anyway, My W and I have agreed to leave the past where it should be left...in the past.

The thing that turned it around for me at least was when I decided to GAL and start being a man. But I did it for ME...and my FWW happened to notice and I could tell that she was starting to become attracted to me again. When OM finally showed his true colors I was there to offer compassion and a shoulder to cry on. Things progressed from there and now we are piecing. But the key was when she agreed to NC with OM...you absolutely cannot R when the OM is in the picture. I know it's hard as hell, trust me I was there only a few months ago.

I know this because my FWW has told me and hinted a few times about the changes I made and I tell her I changed for me. Pick up No More Mr. Nice Guy and Hold Onto Your N.U.T.S.. Both of these tomes will show you how to become a man that any woman can respect. One thing that Sandi drilled into my head is your W or any woman MUST respect you first before they can love you period. Art of Manliness is a great website that I recently discovered and is packed with some real gems.

I also went on AD's namely Welbutrin...I highly recommend it as one of the side effects is an increase in libido. My W takes it to and trust me it does increase libido.

Also read "What Women Find Attractive" in the Newcomers forum...that REALLY turned things around for me and I read the first post from Coach daily...know it, learn it, live it.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

?I want to fix this and restore our relationship. I don't care what the problems are or who started it all. I don't want retribution. I don't want vengeance. I don't want to even the score. I just want my marriage back."

There sure are alot of "I"s in that statement. Again it's not in your control. She is choosing to paint you as the bad guy. Unless she goes to therapy or chooses to start saying "hey my H isn't why I'm feeling this way" she's not going to change.

Think of it this way. She has told you that she sees you as the source or reminder of her "pain". When she looks up, there you are in her face trying to make her happy and work on the M. Do you think she really wants that?

Nothing you do is going to "make" her feel happy. She's going to have to get to that point on her own. Leave her alone. Packing her bags just serves as a catalyst. If you're in her face then she doesn't have to look at herself as being the source of her own misery. You're happy to be the scapegoat.

If you want your W back, then you've got to move out of the way.

So, are you saying that I should back off and stop talking about it? Or are you saying I should just tell her to leave or that I should leave myself? I'm not clear on what you're suggesting here.

One more thing that might be worth mentioning here is that we are not at a point where either is insisting on leaving or that the other leave. We're still very intimate and close with one another. We're trying to work this out.

As far as the other man goes, she says she isn't interested in seeing him again and that her affair with him wasn't because she wanted to be with him but that she wanted to feel something that she thought was dead inside of her and he just happened to be the right guy at the right moment.

Also, against my personality, I did check her cellphone records. Since 9/17, she has had only 2 text messages and 2 phone calls to or from his telephone number. That's well within the realm of the calls being work related as they do have to communicate via cell phone when he is working in different areas for the company.

IMO you state that you feel for her POV and that while she sees you as a source of pain for years (BS BTW), you two have also had many great times together. Say that while you can understand if she would like to leave because of that, you would like her to stay and work things out.

Unless she starts doing some introspective work and seeing that YOU ARE NOT the cause of her "pain", things will get worse. At the very least, stop talking about the R.

Because she hasn't made any suggestion to seek professional help, while you're being intimate, she may be burying her issues below the surface. One day it will rise again. She has to deal with things right here right now. If not, you will be pulled along side her rollercoaster ride of emotions.

So be kind and compassionate, but don't start feeding into her stereotype of how she sees you. Right now she's going to look at everything you do under a microscope and start nitpicking everything you do.

In terms of the OM, no contact means no contact. If she REALLY was sorry, she would understand that any contact with the OM is not acceptable. Let me put it to you a little more bluntly. Would you like your W to keep talking to a guy she f*cked? It doesn't matter what they talk about. Contact has been made. It needs to end and she needs to respect that.

btw love that Sandi. awesome advice and one we can all use. i too was very close to ONS but didnt. W later found out, i evaded then finally admitted it and apologized. she continues to throw it in my face as reason for her A, although she either denies or admits to it very obliquely. : )

in essence the LBS needs to STFU about past and move forward. W refuses to talk A and when she does, uses it to bludgeon me as reason why "she did or didnt do it."

hey LK, check out the focusonthefamily website. look up "opening the cage door." it is just a formal way of saying what everyone else is advising u to do. it IS counterintutive but works.

i take Sandi's word as gospel bc she was there on other side. her perspective is like gold.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

IMO you state that you feel for her POV and that while she sees you as a source of pain for years (BS BTW), you two have also had many great times together. Say that while you can understand if she would like to leave because of that, you would like her to stay and work things out.

I think that's working right now. I'm going to keep going with it.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

Unless she starts doing some introspective work and seeing that YOU ARE NOT the cause of her "pain", things will get worse. At the very least, stop talking about the R.

Because she hasn't made any suggestion to seek professional help, while you're being intimate, she may be burying her issues below the surface. One day it will rise again. She has to deal with things right here right now. If not, you will be pulled along side her rollercoaster ride of emotions.

I've taken the initiative and gotten the numbers of a few marital counselors in town. I think I'll bring it up soon.
So be kind and compassionate, but don't start feeding into her stereotype of how she sees you. Right now she's going to look at everything you do under a microscope and start nitpicking everything you do.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

In terms of the OM, no contact means no contact. If she REALLY was sorry, she would understand that any contact with the OM is not acceptable. Let me put it to you a little more bluntly. Would you like your W to keep talking to a guy she f*cked? It doesn't matter what they talk about. Contact has been made. It needs to end and she needs to respect that.

I don't like it, but it is unavoidable in this case. We can't afford for my wife not to have a job right now and her job requires that they interact in the work environment. I don't see anything that I can do in that regard.

"I don't see anything that I can do in that regard."

Yes you can. At the very least there needs to be transparency. She can write a letter to him and cc you on it specifically stating that you know about the A and that the two of you have decided to work things out. So any correspondences between the two of them will be made public to you.

If your W laughs at that and refuses to, then you have your answer. She's thinking more about herself than you. At that point, you tell her that it was extremely selfish, hurtful and disrespectful what she did and that if she can't understand that, then she needs to leave.

Does the OM know that you know what happened? What kind of business are they in?

And besides, the last time I checked, your marriage vows included "for richer or poorer, for better or worse". Your M trumps any job situation.

Actually you can tell her to put herself in your shoes. That if you had cheated on her, would she want you to keep working with the OW? Sometimes you have to turn the tables.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"I don't see anything that I can do in that regard."

Yes you can. At the very least there needs to be transparency. She can write a letter to him and cc you on it specifically stating that you know about the A and that the two of you have decided to work things out. So any correspondences between the two of them will be made public to you.

If your W laughs at that and refuses to, then you have your answer. She's thinking more about herself than you. At that point, you tell her that it was extremely selfish, hurtful and disrespectful what she did and that if she can't understand that, then she needs to leave.

Does the OM know that you know what happened? What kind of business are they in?

That I can do. I'm not sure if he knows or not. I will find out.

How about an update.