Long story summarized in my signature at the end. I used to be a "regular" on here.
Valentine's Day was a wake up call of the amount of time we have been back together and things have not improved between us. It's been over a year. There are no intimate times between us, there is no laughter, no happiness, and I have lost desire now as well.
I've shut down. Of course, H "wakes up" all the sudden again, and wants to know what's wrong. This time I'm firm and say I won't speak to him about it unless we have a counselor present. H got one, amazingly. Counselor is pro-marriage, has all of the DB books on her shelf, and all of the ones I've read. She's good. I only wish we'd found her sooner.
I feel it is too late. I feel like if we didn't have it to start, if we couldn't get it after reuniting, .......we've tried everything.
What's holding us together is our son, and finances. Would life with someone else be happier? Maybe yes. But, part time with my son would make me miserable.
So do I just stay for my son?
Hope to hear from my old friends as well as maybe some new ones. Wonder if anyone is still around.
I am trying to figure out whatami how you can say "we've tried everything" and in the same post admit you finally now have a good counsellor..
It would follow from that that GOOD family therapy isn't something you HAVE explored...
To me it reads like you have lost HOPE and are growing wayward... This is NOT healthy for your home...
My advice is for you to make a reknewed HONEST commitment with your new therapist guiding you well for the first time in your lives.
You both sound like you needed someone to help you along like this. I for one have hope that this will make a big difference for you.
As I told the therapist....I don't quite believe that it's going to make a difference. We've been here before and the hurt is deep. She is good.....and she is saying all the things that I have felt for so long and it seems like my H is listening.
I need people like you to tell me there is hope. Because I feel like our marriage is a sham. I'm tired of pretending. I'm tired of losing so much time and so much life.
What's your story, in a nutshell, Allen?
There's a great book called
Hold Me Tight that trains people how to HEAL past HURTS in a marriage...
Your FT should get a copy and you as well as your husband, its a great educational resource..
http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Me-Tight-Conv...2159&sr=8-1i will say more later... gotta run
Hi, whatami, I think you might have posted on my thread before. Have you heard of "the plain of lethal flatness?" Have you checked out survivinginfidelity.com? There is a "healing library" that has useful articles about reconciliation and of course a bunch of other stuff.
I just read that those who are in reconciliation often take about 2-5 years before they are feeling great about things again.
SO YES there is hope! Give it more time...commit to another year but really and truly give it your all!
Allen- Thanks for the book idea. I don't want to be one of those people that disregard all the advice and just come here whining. But, my first thought when I hear about a book is "Ugh, been there, done that...a million times". I have a million books, all are ones that I see on my new counselor's bookshelf. That being said, I'll check into the book. Doesn't look like a tough read.
Newmama- Yes, I posted to you before. I googled the "plain of lethal flatness"...sounds about right. More books to again try. I've looked at a few things on that other website, but nothing in depth. Thanks for the resource idea. 2 - 5 years, huh? Well, maybe that's it then...more time......I just keep seeing the years pass me by. I wanted another child.....it's not going to happen. I lose so much with the time.
Yup, I know you have read books before.
Have you written out SPECIFICALLY what YOU NEED from your HUSBAND in ACTION?
"More romance" for example is NOT specific... He is NOT going to be able to ACT on that
BUY ME FLOWERS is specific.
And did you write it DOWN for him? Many men respond better to what they can SEE rather than what they can HEAR...
I am just guessing at what the roadblocks are...
I undestand there is history, but i am more concerned at what needs of yours aren't being met RIGHT NOW and what YOU are doing to HELP HIM MEET THEM.
Our very first counselor said that I can't assume my H can read my mind. That I need to tell him what I need/want. So, I did that. It just made it worse because even when I told him what I wanted, he didn't follow through. One example is Valentine's Day. When we reunited and talked a lot about how to move forward, one of the things we talked about was how I like flowers. I said, with a smile, "I'll make it super easy for you......I want a dozen roses EVERY Valentine's Day. I know it bothers you to spend that kind of money on flowers and you don't like to send them when they are expected, but you never seem to do it other times so I just want them on Vday. A dozen. Red. You don't even have to think about it. Just order it." So......Valentine's Day comes around and...nope, no roses. He bought me perfume from a mall that he went ot while on a work trip. Nice, but once again, he doesn't know me or care about what I need/want. It's what sparked me to realize that it has been a year and nothing has changed. We have been together for a year and still haven't had sex. Who reunites, but then never has sex? Us! It didn't seem to bother him. This has been an issue for a long time.
Ok....so what needs of mine aren't being met? I don't feel like I can connect with him on any deep level. How can he connect with me that way? I don't know. The hurt is deep. He could try to share his feelings more, not just superficial ones either.....this is what the counselor is talking to him about. I don't think he is capable of thinking for himself. He is void of personality. It's not just me, it's at work, too. He's the type of guy you don't want to get stuck talking to, because he says things that you have to fake laugh at, and then try to keep the conversation going on your own. There is nothing interesting about him in my opinion. I'm not attracted to him.
1. My spouse and i reunited last fall... still no sex.. beacuse SHE had the affair and I don't want to have sex. I suspect your H is feeling the same way - violated
2. I asked you for a list of your needs, you gave me one (two if you count the complaint)... That's your only need? Flowers and sex?
And I suspect you gave this to him verbally, not in writing yes?
I am not trying to beat you up here whatami, I want you to read your post and ask yoruself if a VIOLATED MAN is going to intuit from what you wrote there how to please you in every way you want?
If you can't tell us, I assume your H is at the same state of loss... AND he feels violated, which just leaves him uncomfortable...
I don't want to have sex because it is just going to remind me of OM, and I don't NEED that right now when I am trying to forget about him violating my wife...
I suspect your H is the same...
WDID,
{Why is there no welcoming back wavy hand icon?}
Am I right in remembering that there was no great 'love/ infatuation' spark in your R/M in the first place?
What made a difference to you at Retro that made you want to keep pursuing this M?
Allen,
What do you think will make you want to have sex with your S again? Just curious. After my H admitted his A it had the effect of making me want to have sex with him, (after checking he had taken precautions with OW). I believe this was for lots of primeval reasons - showing him what he might be losing, putting my scent/mark back on him, wanting to let OW know she hadn't got herself a faithful cheater, (lol) etc.......
I don't think my feelings about this are unusual so I am surprised by what you posted. No offence meant by my question.
Allen-subconsciously he may be feeling violated, but this has been an issue for a long time. Before I had the affairs he didn't want to have sex. I had to go on fertility drugs just to up the chances because of that fact. And, I shouldn't just say sex....but the intimate times were non existent. No touching of my back, no hugs out of nowhere, no kissing, no hand holding, no verbal flirting or "I love yous". So, there are some more needs I have. I just gave one example as to how I was totally disregarded and how that made me feel.
To be honest, your statement that my H is at a sense of loss how to please is probably correct. After this year has passed, I'm not sure there is. It's more than a list of things now......flowers wouldn't even touch it.....it is a feeling of complete disconnectiveness, in every way possible. My mind, my body, my heart, everything. How DO you get that back? My mantra used to be feelings follow actions and this past year I've been doing actions, but my feelings have not followed.
Hi Saffie! So good to hear from you. Yes, there was no initial lust/infactuation phase in my marriage. He and I liken it to an arranged marriage. We both were looking for a certain type of person based on our pasts and we were it. Great on paper, all our friends were marrying at the same time, and we did, too.
Retrouvaille helped us leave the past in the past and forgave each other of the past. He also had gone to a counselor on his own to work on his issues and it made me feel that maybe something would change.
I wanted to believe that we would connect more this time, that things would be different. I don't know how to "fix" us.
Put a list together and post it here then... a table of numbered items... lets see what we can do...
I will answer the sex question later... gotta go make dinner
My needs:
1. To be with a partner that has his own personality and thoughts and feelings and interests and friends.
2. To feel sexually desired by my husband and to feel sexual desire toward him.
3. To feel desire to be around my husband.
4. To laugh with my husband.
5. To not feel sad when I'm with my husband.
Saffie,
I am so with you on the perked up desire when I discovered that my husband had strayed! I wanted my chance to compete, and compete I did! I'd like to see OW charm him with a personal bellydance! And how he responds to that, wow! That competition in the bedroom actually did us a world of good.
Ok, 4 is specific, the rest aren't actions... this is right out of MWD...
What will he be DOING to bring this out in you?
What do you need HIM to DO?
You see, if you express your needs to him like you are above, he can't meet them... they just aren't specific... this is right out of DR... you have to measure by specific action... Right?
Didi,
This is such a change for you! I remember you used to say how much you loved your husband. It shows how frustration can change your perception of your spouse. I know when we were having trouble, I thought my H was the most boring human being on earth. I can't say exactly what changed that for me, I know that it wasn't just one thing. I think if there is no sex, then it isn't a full reconciliation. I don't see how you can reconcile without that full intimacy.
Didi,
Did your H come from an affectionate, touchy feely family? It sounds like he has never learned these skills or their importance. That's what I think he needs to bring up with a C.
I agree with Lotus that in your unhappiness you seem to be rewriting history re your feelings slightly.
Allen, I look forward to reading your reply to my question re intimacy with your W.
Yup, I will address your question... But right now I want to work on whatami's list a bit more...
1. To be with a partner that has his own personality and thoughts and feelings and interests and friends.
Ok, this isn't specific
At the end of each work day, tell me how your day went : what you were feeling during different times of the day and what happened to make you feel that way.
That is specific and something he can ACT ON
2. To feel sexually desired by my husband and to feel sexual desire toward him.
OK, this is clearly needing some work, I won't touch that one...
3. To feel desire to be around my husband.
What will your husband be
doing when you feel this way?
---------------------
I want you to understand I am not trying to frustrate you or dissappoint you here, but you very likley will feel that right now... So does your HUSBAND
If the sample list you offered is the direction he's getting... He is going to be confused and frustrated....
There is hope here, but it needs to be specifically phrased...
I think you should work on your list more...
Our very first counselor said that I can't assume my H can read my mind. That I need to tell him what I need/want.
I am thinking this is the problem.
You said you asked him to buy red roses on v-day.
1. Did you tell him or did you write it down for him to read?
2. How was he feeling when he was given the info?
3. How does
he feel about buying flowers?
4. How was
he feeling on v-day and a few days earlier?
You're telling us you have told him about your needs and he hasn't met them... but I am asking you now for a list of specific meetable needs your husband can act on, and you don't seem to have a list ready...
Can you see the problem from where I am?
I could very well be missing something, but...
I dunno... The flowers thing, that reads more like a set up... And I get the impression your husband has issues with buying flowers to begin with...
If you put a BIG DETAILED LIST together, and I am willing to help you do that, and your husband did HALF of it ... would that statisfy you?
The problem I am seeing here is
1. Not communicating your needs clearly to him
2. Isolated direction that's intimidating
The second one is a bit awkward, but let me explain :
If you give him a specific thing to do, nothing else, and he misses the mark, he may have some feeling in him that intimidates him ... So he just avoids the flowers instead of buying them. He may not be comfortable expressing or feeling emotions. He may know you getting the flowers will bring that out so he's avoiding it to avoid his
own discomfort by avoiding the flowers.
Does that make any sense?
The solution in that case isn't to leave him, or to feel hopeless or to turn away from him. The solution is to help him learn how to access his emotions in a way that he's comfortable doing so and eventually looks forward to it.
You feeling your emotions, accessing them, understanding them, expressing them, this may be easy for you, but it may not be easy for him.
I will write more later
Allen- That's just it....I don't know if there is anything he CAN do specifically to bring those things out in me....I tend to lean toward the fact that sometimes things just need to be there.
You asked what I need him to do....My list said those things. The fact that they are not specific mini actions does not make them less significant. I can't make my H have a personality, or make him desire me, or make him laugh sincerely.......he has to do that on his own.
Lotus- I do love my husband, and that's why I'm still here. I'm just afraid it is not the love I should have for him. There is something missing. He's almost robotic...can't think of a better way to say it. There has been no sex since we "got back together". And, sex prior was almost non existent as well.
Saffie- No, my H didn't come from an affectionate family at all. If anything, we both have learned that his upbringing has everything to do with the way he is now. It is what is being brought up in counseling. Right now he is suppose to tell me his feelings at least once a day and I'm suppose to listen without anger. This alone is hard for him, I guess. I may be rewriting history a bit.....I do love him....more like a family member or good acquaintenance, though.
Ok, I'll send this and then get to Allen's last post.
Hey! I have missed you. Sorry that you are still stalled. I don't have a lot of time to write but I ask that you try not to shut down, open your mind. Do the work WITH your H and C and be open to where it takes you. I will check back in I promise, just have to play catch up right now.
hugs, kat
Thanks, Kat. I haven't had a chance to check on you yet. Pretty overwhelmed lately.
Ok, Allen...Ok. I'll try to do what you are saying. Problem is, if these things are not natural, then it just screams to me that we are not natural....making me feel even more than our marriage is fake.
You didn't touch the sex issue.....this is of HIGH importance...I don't have feelings for him that way at all anymore. Pretty significant point.
1. Find one interest that makes you happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.
2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.
3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.
4. Tell me when you are angry and why.
5. Be upbeat and make plans on your own of what you want to do.
I didn't write down to buy me roses. He knew he should, and chose not to. He even told me that. Passive agressive. How was he feeling when I told him? Actually we were laughing because we had just gotten back together talking about the changes we need to make and we were in good moods. He doesn't like getting flowers because he is cheap and he likes giving them when they aren't expected....problem is...he never gives them when they aren't expected.....ever. I waited years and years and years for it to happen...never did. How was he feeling on Valentine's Day? Just like the past. We were how we were in the past....no connection, routine, .....
Flowers thing...yeah, could have been a set up...but for me, was more of an eye opener.
I see what you are saying about not giving him something specific to do...guys like those lists of do this and do that......and I will try to do that. But, do you see what I'm saying....that all our years I've been the one telling him what I need and want and what to do and practically what to think....and I'm tired. I want an adult, a partner, a husband.....and I can't make him that way. He can do x, y, and z, but if it is not him really wanting to do it and really being that way...then it is just more of the fake marriage I've had all my life.
whatami- do you even remember what would cause you to desire your H? I was attracted to my H but sometimes felt no desire for him and didn't know why. Over this whole traumatic affair, we ended up learning each other's emotional needs and love languages. Well obviously that wasn't enough because he is still with OW but my point is that now I can identify specifics so I can determine what I need in the future. Here is a list just to help you jog your memory...
here's what used to make me desire my H (and these things did not happen all the time!):
when we had good conversations and laughed together
when I saw him doing work on a project in the house
when we cooked together
when he kissed me long and deep
when he would tell me about his feelings or something personal
when he would tell me things he appreciated about me
when we would travel together
when we would have a fun date- do something new
NOW if any of those things didn't happen that day AND I wasn't in the mood, then I did not desire my H. (sometimes I would just be in the mood and I could predict when based on my female cycle)
is this list helpful at all? If not, sorry to be obnoxious!
The advice I am giving you here is right out of MWD's marriage therapy DVD... She takes men and women with your challenge - no romance, etc and one of the first things she prompts them all to do is to WRITE DOWN what they NEED specifically from their partner...
If you haven't done that yet then you can't hold it against him if he doens't know...
I dunno, I am getting the sense that you are looking for some sweeping romance here, and marriage isn't like that.. It's just not... It can be fun and rewarding, but... You want romantic feelings like you have when a couple often first meet?
That doens't happen... that's replaced with love, respect, and cooperation... I am thinking it isn't your husband you don't like but marriage.
I only have like 2% of the story so far, so bear with me... I can't offer an accurate analysis having explored this only 2%... But the fact that you don't have a detailed list of actions you envision a husband performing to meet you needs was a big red light to me... And when prompted, the list was vague, which suggests there's a miscommunication between you and your husband...
OK, he doesnt' want to buy flowers becuase he's frugal?
Assuming he isn't wasting $$ on himself regularly, lets take the frugality as a plus - he's investing in his family and home rather than galavanting... That's GOOD...
How about planting flowers? Sketch some with pencil and paper? Give him some ideas that don't cost a lot of cash then...
If he tells you how he feels about the flowers tell him he's being selfish... And that on valentines day its his opportunity to show he cares about how YOU FEEL...
Try any of that, if he argues with it... Even about planting some roses in a garden... Good god, its only a few dollars, THEN complain all you want, he's as you said just being passive aggressive... maybe he resents the infidelity still and is subconciously playing games to make you feel bad? People often do this to process hurt while claiming they forgive you... It's nasty stuff but it happens.
I just remember reading you saying tried everything and sorry but if you don't have a MWD list of actions he can do to meet your needs.. if you don't even have a list then you hav'ent tried everything...
The idea here my dear is that your husband may just not know how to be romantic... He may nto have been trained for that... neither was I...
i needed practicie... but I had to teach myself since my wife was out having sex with another man... Fun eh? Well, your H is under the gun too... He is likley intimidated that if he says the wrong thing or does the wrong thing, or FAILS to say the right thing or fails to do the right thing he's going to lose your respect... so he's paralyzed with fear? Again another possibility...
Yes, maybe he just thinks this is all funny and doens't care... But he did call a therapist... That says something... He likley doen'st have much if any practice expressing commitment
So, give him a manual.. OK?
whatami- do you even remember what would cause you to desire your H? I was attracted to my H but sometimes felt no desire for him and didn't know why. Over this whole traumatic affair, we ended up learning each other's emotional needs and love languages. Well obviously that wasn't enough because he is still with OW but my point is that now I can identify specifics so I can determine what I need in the future. Here is a list just to help you jog your memory...
here's what used to make me desire my H (and these things did not happen all the time!):
when we had good conversations and laughed together
when I saw him doing work on a project in the house
when we cooked together
when he kissed me long and deep
when he would tell me about his feelings or something personal
when he would tell me things he appreciated about me
when we would travel together
when we would have a fun date- do something new
NOW if any of those things didn't happen that day AND I wasn't in the mood, then I did not desire my H. (sometimes I would just be in the mood and I could predict when based on my female cycle)
is this list helpful at all? If not, sorry to be obnoxious!
Not obnoxious newmama, its a good list of actions that are specific... an excellent sample
newmama- Not obnoxious at all...Let me look at your list:
when we had good conversations and laughed together
*YES! I need this! But, we don't have good conversations and we don't laugh together. Ever. I'm not being dramatic.
when I saw him doing work on a project in the house
*YES! He does this sometimes, and it does give me that manly feel from him that makes me desire him more that way.....
when we cooked together
*Never done this...maybe it could
when he kissed me long and deep
*His kisses were always a turn off...wet, too soft
when he would tell me about his feelings or something personal
* This is something he is working on....if he could do this, it would make a difference.
when he would tell me things he appreciated about me
*YEs, he has gotten better with this through the years but it sounds mechanical coming from him so it doesn't necessarily give me the desire I need.
when we would travel together
*We don't travel.....but that would help a lot. I know Hope4us travels a lot and it helped him a lot. We just don't have the funds for that. We go camping, but not the same.
when we would have a fun date- do something new
*If we could do this, again, it would have an affect. When we are out it is awkward. He is socially inept.
Allen- I don't need you to acknowledge my feelings or even understand them, but I'm going to keep telling them because they are important. Perhaps we will help each other.
You said to write down specifically what I need from my partner. I did. What about what I came up with?
1. Find one interest that makes you happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.
2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.
3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.
4. Tell me when you are angry and why.
5. Be upbeat and make plans on your own of what you want to do.
Those things would move me toward that feeling I need to have toward him.....give me something to be attracted to...I thought they were specific....are they not?
I'm way over trying to get some sweeping romance. I just want to desire him, to be attracted to him, to want to be around him, I want more than a roommate.
I'm around enough married people to know that they desire each other. I see it in the flirting, the touching, the innuendos about sex later that night.....nothing happens like that with my H and I. Never has.
Again, look at my list and let me know where I need to be more specific.
The flower thing was ONE example. It was an easy thing to do, something he knew to do, and he purposefully did not do it. I will talk more to him about it, and we'll see what happens the next Valentine's Day...but I would almost bet money it will be the same thing. I almost will have to badger him and remind him every day for a week prior to make sure it happens...and then,......after all that......it's not the same, is it?
Ok, maybe we haven't tried everything. That's what I was hoping I would hear from people on here. I need that support and advice. Because when I tell you how I feel and tell you that it FEELS like I have tried everything, I truly believe that.
My husband not only doesn't know how to be romantic, he doesn't know how to show himself to anyone....he doesn't open up, doesn't have a personality, would say so much himself.....he doesn't know who he is!
No, he doesn't think this is funny. He called a therapist because he knows he needs help, we need help.......
Ok, the manual. Again, I made a list that I thought was good...tell me what I need to do to make it better.
whatami, I hope this isn't too rude but I want to be honest- I have de ja vus reading about how hopeless you sound regarding your marriage- it reminds me of how my WH told me from Jan-March 09 that he was doing everything he could and just didn't feel it. He was convinced it was gone. Then he left me for OW.
NOT that you are having an affair! But I wonder if you are asking for permission to be done with your marriage in a way...like justifying why you want to end it.
Am I on to something? That you are just DONE? Or am I misreading you.
I just wanted to give you a hug, FWIW. I remember so well how I used to get very frustrated at a few men who were trying to advise me....and what they would say was so far off who or what my H was that it was crazy. The more I tried to "explain", the more it appeared that I was just making "excuses".....and in fact, I was accused of doing that very thing.
I know you want to be happy. I know you want to be in love and to feel passion. I was so starved for passion and so turned off to my H. It got where everything about him was a sexual turn-off to me. Makes for a very unhappy R.
Just wanted you to know that I'm here and I think I really understand where you're coming from.
newmama- I want to hear everyone's perspective...it can only help me. I feel hopeless, and I feel "done"...but I guess the fact that I'm here and going to a counselor says something differently. I want to feel like there is hope, but when I look on the past, and around me today...I see none. I'm going to take all of your advice and continue to try..
My life is passing me by, I'm unhappy, I want another child that my clock is ticking loudly saying it's never going to happen...... I feel guilty staying in a marriage that feels like a sham.
Thanks so much Sandi. I needed that. When I try to explain something about my husband, it does come across as excuses.......I'm just trying to explain more so that maybe someone can help me more.....
Thanks so much for understanding. I feel less alone.
feel hopeless, and I feel "done"...but I guess the fact that I'm here and going to a counselor says something differently.
OK whatami, I was just checking. And reading sandi's post helped me to see that I was viewing your description of your H as "excuses" instead of validating your "reality." (((HUGS))) I'm sorry that I thought you were "giving up" whatami!
YES you are trying! and if your H can wake up and see that you are desperate for his help and effort it will help you so much! So how to get through to him...
Newmama- I'm not totally giving up...I want to try...I'm feeling hopeless, and like I have tried in vain already......I'm looking for something to tell me that things will change...
My H is trying, too. It's just that he is who he is, and I am who I am.....we don't seem to click in that way a married couple should. I don't know.
Pup, you out there? How are you and your w doing? We had similar issues I think.
Allen,
I feel that I am baiting you with this question.....and honestly I am not......I am truly curious. You said earlier on this thread about you not having sex with your W since reconciliation because you didn't feel like it, and I asked you about that. You said you would reply and so far you haven't.
I just wondered, if your W had an A.....and I don't know your history but am guessing it was a PA......and now you are refusing to have sex with her- don't you worry she will stray again?
Is your M now harmonious? I am truly curious as I personally feel that that physical closeness is such an important part of my M,( not the most important part but still an important part).
I know that you busted the A, but is that where it ends?
I am sorry if I am getting too personal, It's just I feel it's confusing. Also I think it is useful for folks to have a handle on the circumstances of a person advising them as it helps them see 'where that person is coming from'.
No saffie it's ok
Yes, it was a PA. My wife doens't press me for sex right now either.. we are both processing all the damage right now more or less... We are just being close friends, spending time with each other, doing things together, living our lives, inviting each other INTO our lives again... We still hug each other, and we still hold hands and kiss each other good by when I go out to work, but that's as far as either one of us is moving.
It shouldn't end with busting the affair no... It most certainly should involve a thorough house-cleaning of the relationship, but that' can't start until you feel safe with and respect one another... We need to do this together and that takes a team, not two people who are angry and isolated emotionally...
And people DO avoid sex when they are dating at first.. that's NOT the first thing that happens (usually, and I would argue its healthier for the R if the sex is kept under control, its a good test of their maturity... if they run right into bed, they don't have a lot of self control and the relationsihp isn't likley to last long term). I am just learning about who this woman is again... She more or less feels the same... There's no pressure on either side in my home.
And people DO avoid sex when they are dating at first.. that's NOT the first thing that happens (usually, and I would argue its healthier for the R if the sex is kept under control, its a good test of their maturity... if they run right into bed, they don't have a lot of self control and the relationsihp isn't likley to last long term).
I had to smile to myself when I read this Allen. It makes me sound ' a right floozy' as we would say over here, as my H and I got together on our first real date. On your scale we shouldn't rightly still be together I guess - lol
I have come to the conclusion that it was largely due to me having had quite a bit of therapy and having already gone through much introspection, when I discovered about my H's A, that H and I were able to recover so quickly. We had a team of sorts, of professionals, already set up to help when the BIG crisis hit. They helped me hit hard and fast at my H. I also think my H's A was coming to a natural end.
However, the physical side of things was also a huge help in the healing process.
Thank you for your answer to my question. It really helps to see what others experiences are.
The two of you can still be together, my point is if a couple can't find the maturity to control themselves until they know each other well and rush into sex then that does signal some trouble is likley due ahead of you... I can't imagine that's the only instance of self control not exercised in the marriage... the A being an obvious second...
Interesting feedback from Saffie and Lotus regarding perspective of "reconciliation" sex after an A. If I found out my W had an A, it would negatively effect my sexual desire for her.
Ok People.....I need help here....
Allen....you never commented on my list or answered my questions.
Whatami,
I am fairly new here to the DB forums. I am almost 8 months from D-Day. I saw your post and am strucl by how it appears we have married the exact same man.
Hang in there.
Let's support each other!
I can't imagine that's the only instance of self control not exercised in the marriage... the A being an obvious second...
I have to disagree with you on your premise regarding lack of control and trouble. Your M has had an A in it too. I personally think that by waiting so long to become intimate again you are probably making that side of the R into a problem area. But that is just my personal view. I think there is a big danger of moving into a SSM area and that can cause awful problems.
Sorry for the hijack WDID
OK, I will handle saffie's point first...
The very common sex before marriage argument is something as follows :
a. You need to have sex before you marry so you get to test drive the car before you buy it
That's the colloquial.
There is the old school argument to which I am alluding :
b. Nothing worth having is earned easily. The longer you wait, the more mature you are. Make a commitment to abstain as a test of your long term viability to one another.
BOTH a and b have merit.. This is a complex debate and I don't intend on resolving this two arguments.
It's not just your personal view saffie, it's a very common one today.
I am just bringing attention back to the old school abstinence viewpoint that's been forgotten.
Yes, it is VERY important to ensure there is sexual compatability etc. I can't dispute that. But when people choose to leap into sex showing no restraint or willingness to wait it does send a hint that self-control issues will appear on the later horizon for some of these poor souls.
And yes it is equally arguable that abstinence for a long time may avoid learning some important facts about your spouse, and if the abstinence is successful it may paint a picture of a sex starved marriage on the long term horizon... Or put as a question in the mind of some : Is he/she waiting because she's mature or because he/she is frigid?
The
question then is this :
When and how does one safely integrate sex into a long term commitment such that we learn both that our spouse can demonstrate self-control and that our spouse can satisfy us sexually as well?
That is not an easy question to resolve.. I won't touch that one, that belongs on the SSM forum.
glad to see you will answer Whatami's questions since this is her thread lol!!
But I just want to say that from what I have read, the betrayed husbands OFTEN avoid sex with their former wayward wives once the affair is over. So maybe it is due to the differences in a man v woman thing! I know that I would be wanting to "claim my territory" again if WH and I reconcile.
Allen- I don't need you to acknowledge my feelings or even understand them, but I'm going to keep telling them because they are important. Perhaps we will help each other.
You said to write down specifically what I need from my partner. I did. What about what I came up with?
OK, lets have a look... I have had similar challenges with my own spouse, so this is of particular interest to me...
1. Find one interest that makes you happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.
OK... I am wondering at the moment what he does with his time... What are the actions he does regularly, what are his daily routines?
Sports? Computer games? Chess? Skydiving? Does he play Piano? What does he DO with his time at the moment?
2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.
OK, this is an interesting one... I have heard it myself from my own spouse...
I am going to give you a homework assignment for this one. There's a great film that came out in 2008 called
I Love you Man. The story is a romantic comedy about a young man who asks his girlfriend to marry him. He's handsome, mature, well-mannered, gainfully employed... The problem? He's a great catch, He's had a few relationships prior to this one with other women long term and he invested all of his time into them. This guy has no guy friends. He has no "buddy" or "drinkin pals" to speak of to invite to his wedding party... So, he and his wife have this dilemna, who is goign to be in his wedding party? He sets out on a quest for the remainder of the film : Find some freinds, make a good friend you can invite to be your best man at least...
The film is very good and funny too... His girlfriend DOES get him to make a friend, who turns out to quite the hell raiser and this fella's girlfriend gets her fiancee to have his pal AND more than they both bargained for in the deal...
Watch the film...
I am going to suggest that for NOW 1 above may take care of 2... That's often how that happens... Watch the film with your H, it may be educational for you both.
3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.
OK, this is a bit vague, but do-able. I am thinking "If you feel scared, tell me when you do and why...", "if you feel lonely, tell me when you do and why.." etc...
It gives your H a bit more direction... Us guys are trainable... you just have to make the dots close to one another...
Maybe we can put a list of emotions you want to hear about specifically so he can build on them for you...
4. Tell me when you are angry and why.
OK, this is kinda like yours and my spin on 3 above...
5. Be upbeat and make plans on your own of what you want to do.
Curious, be upbeat meaning he's not cheerful at all? You think he is feeling sad lately? I am hoping 1 above will drive this one again...
Those things would move me toward that feeling I need to have toward him.....give me something to be attracted to...I thought they were specific....are they not?
They are more specific than before. I am really looking for an instruction manual... Kinda like a To DO list to make whatamigoingtodo happy.
What I am long term leading you into this something like this :
A whole yearlong calendar. Done in an actual pinpup calendar OR on an EXCEL spreadsheet if you like computers.
EACH DAY has a TO DO item on it that will make YOU happy... 365 of them... almost like an errand run
April 1 : Buy card, roses for whatmigoingtodo with a note "Just Thinking of you..."
April 2 : Tell whatamigoingtodo about what happened at work that day, no matter how boring... Tell her the whole story
April 3 : Go out to a movie on my own, pick one that I want to see and tell whatamigoingtodo the whole film as a story when I get back
etc
365 days...
That's long term where I am going with this... but right now the list isn't specific enoguh or NEARLY as long as we need it to be..
THe idea was you fill the calendar, and then give it to your H as a gift... a GIFT, not an ultimatum...
If he is passive aggressive this is a great idea... he doenst' HAVE to do ALL of the work.. you would likely be happy if he did even 10 or 15% of it... Your H can even have a few blanks to fill in of his own design AND he can swap days if he wants.. its customizable for him...
See where I am gonig?
It would work as a manual of how to please you... a specific, visual, BOOK of simple do-able ideas he can implement as written without much planning or financial investment (keep the tasks low cost and executable in one day)
I dunno if you have seen Fireproof, but the Love Dare introduced in that film is similar to this idea...
I am doing a more realistic 365 days instead of a measly 40 which isnt' realistic... AND the love dare can be a bit off-putting in that it's not very flexible... you cant swap days and it isn't designed to include work to make YOUR day more intresting, only the WS... Anyway
I'm way over trying to get some sweeping romance. I just want to desire him, to be attracted to him, to want to be around him, I want more than a roommate.
OK, and keep that criteria in mind when building the list I outlined above...
I'm around enough married people to know that they desire each other. I see it in the flirting, the touching, the innuendos about sex later that night.....nothing happens like that with my H and I. Never has.
I find it hard to believe it never has... I can very easily believe that you can't find those moments right now... They must be there, few and simple, lost in the shuffle of daily routines, conflict, child-rearing, and the challenges of marriage over the long term...
Again, look at my list and let me know where I need to be more specific.
A few are good as is, some overlap others, see above for the details
The flower thing was ONE example. It was an easy thing to do, something he knew to do, and he purposefully did not do it. I will talk more to him about it, and we'll see what happens the next Valentine's Day...but I would almost bet money it will be the same thing. I almost will have to badger him and remind him every day for a week prior to make sure it happens...and then,......after all that......it's not the same, is it?
Michele covered this in her DVD. To her mind if your spouse does something to meet a need of yours it's an act of love and you should accept it without further analysis. The idea that he's doing it because you badgered him, or because he doens't want you to be mad at him etc is errorneous. If he buys you the flowers, enjoy them and put the analysis in the trashcan where it belongs... It won't help you to second guess your spouses motives or expect their motives to be different than what they are.
You have to realize that MWD is aiming for a SBT approach here.. meaning that the ACTION comes first, and FEELINGS will follow gradually over time.
He can buy you flowers and be even bitter about it... as long as he buys them
You can accept them, and even be bitter about it because you had to badger him
Over TIME as it is done more often, his bitterness and your bitterness will gradually soften into something much warmer and the feelings YOU are looking for will follow.. That's the theory of SBT... DO NOW, feel later. Invest in actions, with good feelings being the dividend.
Ok, maybe we haven't tried everything. That's what I was hoping I would hear from people on here. I need that support and advice. Because when I tell you how I feel and tell you that it FEELS like I have tried everything, I truly believe that.
I believe you feel like you've tried everything, but no I don't believe you
have tried everything... subtle but important difference.
My husband not only doesn't know how to be romantic, he doesn't know how to show himself to anyone....he doesn't open up, doesn't have a personality, would say so much himself.....he doesn't know who he is!
He has a personality, everyone does. But he likely does NOT EXPRESS that to you or many, maybe not anyone... There IS someone in there... I can promise you that...
No, he doesn't think this is funny. He called a therapist because he knows he needs help, we need help.......
That's a good start...
Why not tell us about him to start with, it may spring some ideas in some of the posters here... what does he like to eat, listen to, see, read, and do with this time?
In sign language, the sign for horny is the same as the sign for hungry, but done with more enthusiasm. Ever since I studied sign language, I have equated the two human hungers. I know for sure that if my husband said there was to be no eating at home, I would go to a restaurant. No one is cutting off my need for sustenance. And I am sure he feels the same way. IMO, if there is no sex, all bets are off on the marriage.
Sorry, Didi, I know that sounds harsh. But as so many people say, there are dealbreakers. For me, a sexless marriage is the biggest dealbreaker.
A spouse cannot expect their sex life to be back to normal suddenly simply because an affair is ended (regardless of them being a LBS or WS).. healing takes time... MWD was very clear about that in her books...
And the idea that one throw about sex ultimatiums in the immediate aftermath of an affair is a bit ridiculous...
Certainly, sex is a personal issue. And I don't mean to compare my sex life with others; that serves no useful purpose. Everyone must deal with it in their own way. I do believe that sexual compatibility is one of the cornerstones of marriage, though. And therefore, it is a very important issue to work out. It is good that Didi and her husband are taking a serious approach to this problem and trying to work it out.
I don't think anyone is advising throwing around sexual ultimatums. One of the most important things you can do for your marriage is to find out your spouse's emotional needs and work dang hard to meet them. If one spouse has a strong need for sex and the other spouse ignores/fails to meet that need there will be consequences in the marriage.
Allen, in your case, I can certainly see a valid concern for postponing sex of a period of time until you heal a bit. But if your wife is high drive and you are denying her sex (out of shame, or anger, or resentment, or whatever) then over time this behavior will hurt your marriage. And yes I realize that your wife has already hurt it plenty.
Allen, in your case, I can certainly see a valid concern for postponing sex of a period of time until you heal a bit. But if your wife is high drive and you are denying her sex (out of shame, or anger, or resentment, or whatever) then over time this behavior will hurt your marriage. And yes I realize that your wife has already hurt it plenty.
In whatamidoingtodo's case Esox it is whatamigoingtodo who HAD the AFFAIR, and her HUSBAND is not pursuing sex right now... My household situation is the same as hers, but we are in the differeing roles... me being the LBS and her having been the WS
The sex-starved marriage is a complex subject, in the aftermath of an affair this is exponentially so...
I am not dismissing the importance of a sexual relationship in a marriage, but the suggestion that "all bets are off" doens't smack of a cooperative approach to a negotiation at all... Sex in particular is a delicate subject... With a painful affair thrown into the history this delicate subject becomes a
thin sheet of glass...
Handle with
care can't be emphasized enough here...
I was the High Desire spouse in my relationsihp with my wife before the affair started... there was conflict on sex as much as in any household from what I can read...
Then later the affair hit, I got a LOT of PERSPECTIVE on marriage VERY QUICKLY...
I am NOT advocating a sexless marriage, I Do understand how painful that can be... But in the context of infidelity or divorce having a committed spouse beside you each night without that horrible feeling of being violated by a predator on a regular basis in your home can't be compared to from my experience.
Let me put it this way ...
As a HD spouse would you be willing to exchange
a. More sex with your partner for
b. An open marriage such that they will be pursuing sex elsewhere as well?
In order to have (a) would any HD person here be willing to offer up (b) as a negotiating item?
I would think most would BALK at the suggestion... This puts things into perspective quite quickly...
If I could have a more fullfilling sex life would I be willing to have an open marriage?
Hell no, I enjoy my companion, my commitment, my partnership MUCH MORE than sex and I am in no way going to do damage to that partnership in order to have a more fullfilling sex life... It's not worth it.
Again I am NOT dismissing negotiation here, but one of the first rules on negotiations is to NOT EXPECT to get what YOU WANT gonig in...
Be prepared to negotiate.. that means to GIVE GROUND such that you can GAIN some...
Explore alternatives, look for hope, opportunity, and consensus from your partner...
Your sex life is important, but your marriage is important too... remember the battleground for the sex life IS your marriage...
Tread LIGHTLY there or face the consequences...
Allen,
If sex is important to your wife you are doing damage to your marriage if you deny her sex.
I'll leave the issues of an open marriage to others as it just appears to be a straw man argument and I don't have time for that.
The emotional needs of your partner matter in a marriage. And her needs aren't open to negotiation. Her needs just are. The same applies to your needs. You can certainly discuss how the needs get met, but not if the need itself is valid.
Allen,
If sex is important to your wife you are doing damage to your marriage if you deny her sex.
I'll leave the issues of an open marriage to others as it just appears to be a straw man argument and I don't have time for that.
The emotional needs of your partner matter in a marriage. And her needs aren't open to negotiation. Her needs just are. The same applies to your needs. You can certainly discuss how the needs get met, but not if the need itself is valid.
It's not a straw man at all, but more importantly you missed the point - the suggestion of the open marriage negotiation item was to put the need in
perspective.
I am not denying my wife anything... you aren't reading these posts very carefully... You have the situations quite mixed up I'm afraid.
And who on earth suggested that anyone declare someone's needs invalid?
Did I mis a post someplace? This is getting way off thread here... I have no idea where you are getting this stuff...
Didi,
I have been thinking about your sitch and the fact that there was never any 'spark' there. It suddenly struck me that in that way it is a bit like an arranged M.....but many of those are very successful. Why is that?
Well, mostly I think is because to begin with the two people learn mutual respect for one another, and then out of that comes love and a protective caring feeling for one another.....and eventually passion.
People that go into arranged M's often come from close knit family units....where the family unit is sacreed and comes before anything - I believe that privately a lot of affection is generally shown.
Now most 'western' M's are not like that.
Leaving the A behind, ( apart from to question if you think your H has truly been able to forgive - as it is much easier said than done, don't you think LBSs?), I think the thing that is lacking in your M is mutual respect. It also strikes me that it is hard for your H to respect another person when he seems to have little respect for himself.
He doesn't sound stupid, he must know that he is not 'quite right' in that he isn't able to spontaneously show affection - probably due to his family background. But hey, he is having therapy for this, no?
I learned in my M that it was easy when I was upset to be very negative about my H, and would talk about him that way to my friends....but that in itself breeds more negativity. At one point I made a concerted effort to stop that.....and gradually my attitude changed and I started seeing more of the good things in him.
I would say,(and I DO know you have tried doing this already), be as positive as you can about his therapy. When he will let you , explore his past family issues re upbringing and what has made him the man he is today, (FOO).
Try and look at it as an arranged M and instead of focusing on the fact that there was never a spark there, see if you can make one from bolstering your H's confidence in his abilities.
Personally, I wouldn't look at 'specifics', I think you are letting yourself get ready for being let down that way. I would look at fostering a respectful caring environment, and see what can blossom from that. Mix with other couples that are loving and caring and have strong family units,so that your H can learn what that entails: and hard though it may be, be supportive of your H, even if sometimes you think he is wrong. Let the little things go so that you can work on the big issues.
Does any of this make sense?
Excellent point Saffie... I do get the sense whatami that you are losing respect for your H... Which is a shame...
That's just it....I don't know if there is anything he CAN do specifically to bring those things out in me....I tend to lean toward the fact that sometimes things just need to be there.
Your thread is striking a deep chord with me.
The above is a problem I am having during our MC sessions, as well. The counselor asked me just today (again) what exactly it is that I want and the answer is (again), "I don't know." I just know what I don't want, but I can't make a list of X,Y,Z that would suddenly make me certain we can recover.
Sex is also a huge issue for us. Well, me. The counselor likes to ask me why, if I want sex, I have a problem initiating. It's not so much a problem initiating... heaven knows I've done plenty of that and been turned down plenty. But even when he doesn't turn me down, it's not fulfilling the need I have to
feel desired by my husband. No matter how much he tells me he wants me or enjoys it when we're together, his never bothering to reach out to me for sex does not back that up. And it's not an unexpressed need, there is no ambiguity that this is important to me-- it just isn't to him.
So no list that says "Make love once a week" is going to solve the problem when, at best, I'm a to-do to get checked off to be sure he gets his Good Husband Gold Star for the week. Desiring me is just one of those things that needs to "be there" and isn't.
Sex is just a component, though, it's everything, and I'm quite afraid I'm going to finish MC realizing that this really is just as good as it's ever going to get, even once we get the hurts/conflicts resolved.
(((Didi)))
Hey darlin', I was just on today and saw this. I'm sorry that its come to this, but it sounds like you are still willing to try and fight.
Saffie I can say that I did the same thing with my H. I would be mad or irritated and then vent to my friends and just created a lot of negativity and resentment towards my H, without him even being aware.
No matter what, a R based on respect and caring with the father of your child can't ever be a bad thing.
((((hugs)))) and prayers.
I'm bumping this back up for me. I haven't been able to think or do what people have suggested so I haven't responded yet. Our 15th anniversary was this week....no cards no nothing from either of us.
Ok here is my first response.
I have two pages of comments to respond to. Thank you.
Quick update: Nothing has changed between him and I other than attending counseling sessions. They are good, but nothing changes what feels like is "missing".
amorfidelis- I'd love to support one another. Are you still around?
Allen- Thanks for responding, and giving me input.
We were fine tuning the list for my H.
1. Find an interest that makes him happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.
and
2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.
YOu asked what he does with his time. He works, comes home and finds house stuff to do, and plays with son. Which is all good, but it's become his routine which is a security blanket to him and while doing those things there is no happiness from him...no smiles no laughter...even playing with our son.
Since I wrote that I've talked to H about this. He doesn't know why he is not happy...says he has always been like this.....was brought up like this...... has since worked at it...has lightened up with son and I have heard him laugh (I asked him if he ever looks our son in the eyes...he realizes he doesn't do that often...it's like he lives outside of the world). He has socialized with some friends after work and has gone out for a drink with the neighbor. I see that as progress.
I did your homework assignment. We watched I Love you, Man with him. IN fact that is the first movie we have watched together in ages. We enjoyed it.
3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.
Ok, I can be specific..."If you feel scared, tell me when you do and why...", etc. Bottom line I want to hear his TRUE feelings when he has them. Any and all.
There's something about the calendar idea that I like....because my mind works like that and I love charts and lists, etc. I know my H would love that, too. But there is that part of me that screams that this is exactly what I DON"T want. I've been living my life waiting for him to do something because he WANTS to ...DESIRES to....years of waiting.....and I've pretended that things are ok all these years.....and now I'm suppose to AGAIN tell him what I want. I've done this over and over, and he will do what I tell him, but nothing is natural. I want it to be what HE wants and desires.
Yes, I have seen Fireproof.......suggest it to many others. IT made both of us bawl and helped us reconcile. But, nothing changed in the reconciliation.
You say you find it hard to believe that intimacy and sex was never there. Of course there was some....but believe me, there was never any innuendos or flirting like someone in love. Our marriage was very much like an arranged marriage. Think of it that way because that is more realistic.
You asked me to tell you about my H to start spring some ideas from you and other posters......What does he like to eat? Steak. What does he like to listen to? Classic rock What does he like to read? Science fiction What does he do with his time? House stuff, and play with son, and work.
Here's the second response. I have to break them up or I'd have a super duper long post.
Lotus- No sex feels like no love. It's now at the point where he says he wants to...but I don't want to. I just don't have feelings that way. There have been so many years that I wanted to, and he wasn't interested......it hurt, and now I have walls up. He hasn't had sex in years with me....and he hasn't come to me upset about it....we reconciled, got back together, and STILL haven't had sex. I get waiting for a bit....but for a year to not come to me saying what the heck! He doesn't care.
Allen...this isn't just an infedility issue....our sex life was nonexistent before the affair, and our marriage...always an issue. We are coming from different backgrounds on this one..you said you were the high desire spouse before the affair...my H was NEVER the high desire spouse.
Saffie- Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions. I'm sorry it has taken so long to respond.
You hit the nail on the head that our marriage is like an arranged one. My H and I have talked about this. We both see it this way. You are also right that the mutual respect is lacking. The counselor has said this as well. He is working on building himself up to having his own thoughts and feelings. This is hard for him. The counselor is having him come to me once a day to share his feelings. Again, just THAT is difficult for him.
Your point was made in that I need to stop talking negatively about him. I think my feeling that I'm "done pretending" has produced this negativity. But, maybe I can stop pretending, but not dwell.
Fostering a caring environment is what I want....but I feel I have done and it has not changed us.....We have tried mixing with other couples and it does help...should do it more...but, in other ways it just pinpoints what we DON"T have and they DO. I can try to let the little things go.
Whew...I'm caught up.
Four More years....are you still there? Desire.....can you live without feeling desired by your husband? I'd like you to join my thread more often because I think you understand my feelings more than most.
Sugar- Yep, I'm still here. Still trying.
I'm feeling depressed and hopeless. Can I do this? Can I stay with this man just for my child and comfort.......knowing that we will never feel more than friendship love?
It's a bad day.
Didi I am all for marriage, but it should be a healthy place to live. If it can't be more than friendship and you want a full marriage, then I don't see a choice. But this is a choice that you need to make for yourself.
I agree with Lotus.
I fought hard to keep my M, but right at the core of it all was that staying together had to be because H and I wanted to be together because we loved one another. Staying together just for the childrens' sake was never an option.
I have lived through my own parents split and my experience has been that two 'happy' separated parents was way better than two unhappy ones who remained together.
A separation does not mean that a reconciliation is never possible.
As Lotus has said, only YOU know what to do.
I am just so confused. I just wish we had something to try to "get back"....you know how people say, "we need to get our romance back"....we just don't have anything to go back to.
I just keep thinking that if we were unable to get it back after all of these years and after a reconciliation and what we went through...what will?
I'm going to try to bring this up very pointedly in our next counseling session and see what she says.
Is there anyone out there that feels like something was missing from the start? And, I mean the ones that are not in a fog.....not off of an affair and rewriting history, but really feel as if there was something missing from the start.....anyone?
Perhaps it is not a question of 'getting it back' but rather a way of creating it?
I wish there was an easy way to do that, Saffie. How do you create something that wasn't there to begin with? Respect and friendship was always there.....but nothing more.
I keep hoping that there is something I can do. We are going out with another couple tonight. I'm going to try to remain positive and look for the good things rather than the bad things and see what happens.
The only time I am the happiest is when I am without my H, unless my son is along. I'm torn.......maybe I would be happier with another man....but I would be miserable without my son fulltime. What's best for my son? Staying married. Financially......I would be ruined to divorce.
I feel selfish. I want more than a friendship love. My friend told me that once I had a child I no longer got to pick what I want. That it is not about me.
I know I am rambling, but I need to get some thoughts out of my head and try to make sense of them.
We have my parents and his parents and family fooled. Everyone thinks we are fine. Neighbors, too. I do enjoy my life. I just don't feel anything toward my H.
We went out with another couple last night. It was so sweet seeing their interaction....and yet so painful at the same time. It's something I will never have. It hurts.
I do love this man...my husband....but not the way I should. I love him for the man he is...he is a catch, he is even really good looking, ...on paper he is perfect....he just doesn't "do it" for me, and I don't "do it" for him...no spark no nothing.
Is anyone else in a relationship like this? Can I do something that will create a spark? What can I do?