The Doves: Sky starts falling Who am I supposed to be?
I can't be sure that the next one will see me
And if the sky starts falling on the street outside
The only thing that satisfies
If the sky starts falling on the heads outside
The only thing that keeps me alive
If you see her again, be sure to say hello
Be sure to send my love
Did she seem like before
Could you seem above it all
Be sure to send my love
Wake up, waking up to see
It's a sign
That what will be will be
And if the sky starts falling on the street outside
The only thing that satisfies
If the sky starts falling on the heads outside
The only thing that keeps me alive
I swear I heard her call, call my name
I swear I heard her call, can I move on
If you see her again, be sure to say hello
Be sure to send my love
Did she seem like before
Can't you see above it all
Be sure to send my love
I swear I heard her call, call my name
I swear I heard her call, can I move on
Did she call herself a friend?
Don't call on me again, don't call on me again
Did she seem like before
Did she seem above it all
Be sure to send my love
Cutters Story That is the first part of my journey here.
Quick recap.
Me:39
WAS:36
R:14y
M:10y
EA:july2009
PA:Aug2009
ILYBLY & Bomb:21-08-2009
PLAN A : 21-08-2009 to 15-09-2009
PLAN B : 17-09-2009 ongoing
Whats dusk at dawn. Its a picture someone drew in grade 5. One of those items that are not important in life , but you remember it.
What is nothing? It is the space between here and there. A quote of mine from grade 9. I remember this as well.
For some strange reason these came to me tonight. So I thought I would get a new home here.
This tread will be about tracking my goals while living in the dark.
Do I still love ladybug? Yes. Somewhere in there. The song I posted describes what I feel towards her. I know I am still very much inlove with ladybug. But at the same time I am not.
I am very proud of myself for standing on my feet and attacking the Adultery. Very proud. I used the weapons that we the LBS were granted. Exposure, GAL , 180, Tough Love and Detach.
Ladybug broke me. The day I completely broke was September 17th. That was the day that I ended the person I was. And deciced that I was going to take complete control in my life. I found this site 2 days later.
I listened to advice that was freely given. I asked questions. I offered help.
I grew as a person.
I thank everyone on here who has shared their lives with me. For I have shared my life with you.
Our gifts to each other.
I am going to quote myself...
Sometimes you have the hammer and chisel in your hands. Sweat running down your face. You stare hard at the mountain in front of you. You are not going to chip away at this mountain at this level. So you start towards the base of the mountain. There is wind and rain. Pounding in your face. Many boulders are laying about. You hardly notice them. But you have to climb over them. Interesting. Seems something is helping you. You have stopped hammering away but you have found a friend. An old and trusted friend. One you have forgotten about. Time.
Time in the dark. Dusk at Dawn. Embrace the suck.
Real life stuff.
Spent evening with FIL ( his birthday ) Had 2 pops and then went to a hockey game.
Just starting 2 weeks vacation. Still have not done any xmas decorations. But almost done the shopping part.
Weekend was very busy. Friday was pints night with 2 work mates. We went out for dinner, hockey game and then one two many pints of stout.
Sat. I got up and ran 15 km. Then planed a movie night with nephew and got ready for a xmas dinner party with some good friends.
That night it was a night of wine and laughter and food and good company.
I also went out on a mini date with one of festival girl's friends. We went to a movie today and then went our seperate ways. It was fun. Then spent the evening with FIL. We worked out a day to exchange gifts. ( I bought for FIL, MIL , BIL , and SIL and her family )
They did the same.
Its been 3 months of Plan B. Paitence is required here.
Plan B goals that I am working on.
Here are my goals with Plan B
1. Force WAS to get all EN's from OM
2. Force WAS to live the fantasy life
3. Remove myself from the vortex of the affair.
4. Stop cake eating
5. Begin to figure out myself
6. Goals. Learn them
7. Goals. Reach them
8. Protect my marriage. Keep enough love to decide if I want to continue it when the adultery ends and WAS gets her head out of her ass.
9. This is about me not my wife.
Am I in a good place?
Yes and no.
Yes its safe. And I am going to spend tomorrow looking for an IC. I know what I want out of that now. I want keep up this good work I have done on myself. The IC is going to help. This is about me. My life. I own it. I control it.
Good luck everyone this week. It will be a rough go. But we will make it.
Cutter! What an impressive and inspiring intro to your new thread! I must tell you something. I really think your W is escaping in her A through OM. When you stated that your W started getting promotions and you spent less time together, I suspect OM entered the picture then. Do you see this possibility?
So, you didn't ask but you are being very strong and doing the best thing for your sitch-NC. I wonder if time will start to fly by pretty soon. For me, it JUST started to fly prior to Thansgiving (8 months post DDay #2) BUT I have not been NC which would have been my preference sans child. Well, D, probably.So I wonder if NC helps time go by faster(not that we can compare or measure it)
OM is her boss. He has 3 children in his marriage. I think ladybug had a breakdown over the fact we never had children. We tried but nothing worked. And she wanted babies. Not to adapt older. All our friends had babies and I think it just got to her. Tie that into 2 quick promotions. I think she created some bizzare world where she gets those 3 kids and lots of money to buy anything she wants. I also think she is bi-polar. She had many a mood swing over the years. But only she really knows.
OM is a complete opposite of me. And the two quick promtions got ladybug thinking materialistic. She always had tendencies here. Bizzaro world. As ladybug was always about family and comes from humble background. OM comes from old money. Almost 10 years older. His wife is a well respected Doctor. Its a completely different world.
I guess I am just saying she snapped. Self entitlement took over and then went on overload. It was all very quick. She did tell one of her friends that life was too stable, she was bored because of the security and just wanted to shake things up in her life. ( This was during the Plan A days where she was a cake walking queen and enjoying both worlds )
I do know that my darkness has really hurt her. I do know that my dating system has affected her as well.
When I talked to her cus. on thursday night. I explained to him that she needs to hit rock bottom before she realizes what she has done to me and our marriage. For right now she does not regret any of this. Will she hit rock bottom? I do not like this person she became. I do not want to know her. See her. Hear about her.
I am not 100% understanding on your statement about escaping?
I am not 100% understanding on your statement about escaping?
OM is a complete opposite of me.And the two quick promtions got ladybug thinking materialistic. She always had tendencies here. Bizzaro world. As ladybug was always about family and comes from humble background. OM comes from old money. Almost 10 years older. His wife is a well respected Doctor. Its a completely different world.
[b]I guess I am just saying she snapped.[/b] Self entitlement took over and then went on overload. It was all very quick. She did tell one of her friends that life was too stable, she was bored because of the security and just wanted to shake things up in her life. ( This was during the Plan A days where she was a cake walking queen and enjoying both worlds )
Escape...escape... from her troubles. She snapped you say, going for someone totally different, the OM also has kids(you both want kids) and she said she wanted to shake things up. I am sure you must know by now that As are about them, not us.
Although Dr. Harley makes a good point about BS contributing to conditions that made the A possible, time and again it has to do more with WS's insecurities.
So like in my WH's sitch, I think he had an early MLC and went for the bad girl he never got in HS and his true self worth is low b/c he was bullied. So he is subconsciously using OW to prove something to his self worth(falsely).
I just wonder if your W is using OM to escape b/c of his money and kids but why...what is the deeper issue? I mean my WH is getting party time and fake sex, but I explained the deeper issues (I suspect) above.
I know we aren't supposed to think about WS, but it helped me to be more objective AND to make sense of this traumatic event AND to reserve love AND to find compassion AND to have hope AND to find more patience when I really thought hard about why an otherwise admirable H is doing this.
I am not 100% understanding on your statement about escaping?
OM is a complete opposite of me.And the two quick promtions got ladybug thinking materialistic. She always had tendencies here. Bizzaro world. As ladybug was always about family and comes from humble background. OM comes from old money. Almost 10 years older. His wife is a well respected Doctor. Its a completely different world.
[b]I guess I am just saying she snapped.[/b] Self entitlement took over and then went on overload. It was all very quick. She did tell one of her friends that life was too stable, she was bored because of the security and just wanted to shake things up in her life. ( This was during the Plan A days where she was a cake walking queen and enjoying both worlds )
Escape...escape... from her troubles. She snapped you say, going for someone totally different, the OM also has kids(you both want kids) and she said she wanted to shake things up. I am sure you must know by now that As are about them, not us.
Although Dr. Harley makes a good point about BS contributing to conditions that made the A possible, time and again it has to do more with WS's insecurities.
So like in my WH's sitch, I think he had an early MLC and went for the bad girl he never got in HS and his true self worth is low b/c he was bullied. So he is subconsciously using OW to prove something to his self worth(falsely).
I just wonder if your W is using OM to escape b/c of his money and kids but why...what is the deeper issue? I mean my WH is getting party time and fake sex, but I explained the deeper issues (I suspect) above.
I know we aren't supposed to think about WS, but it helped me to be more objective AND to make sense of this traumatic event AND to reserve love AND to find compassion AND to have hope AND to find more patience when I really thought hard about why an otherwise admirable H is doing this.
Thanks newmama. I understand the affair is all on the WAS. I am just one of the bigger parts of the fallout from those poor choices.
As for thinking about ladybug and the affair. Brenda Lee's Always on my mind. Comes close
But really a 3rd person perspective view now. I feel like I was not married some times. One day I may find out why. But if I do not that is fine as well. I have come to grips with my half of the marriage. Our problems were very minor in the big picture. The thing that shocked me was the speed of everything. How everything changed in 5 weeks. No build up. Just Wham. A black and white town.
Now its contact from her every few weeks. Trival stuff. But I am standing strong on letting OM give her all the emotional needs that she needs to survive. For I do know my wife very well. And she requires constant attention and affection. But it is the day to day little things in attention and affection that she craves. And she is very independent at the same time. As was I.
I see this affair running a normal course and ending. I think that she planned on having a quick affair for some danger in her life. Then she got caught up in it quickly and I found out right away. A very stubbern woman with pride. I also think that she thought I would chace after her instead of kicking her out and cutting off all contact with her. Removing myself from her script. As I said eariler. I think that when everything unravels she is going to hit bottom. She did some horrible things to me in those 2 months. I just took it. And I do hope she hits bottom. She needs to and fully diserves it. Not for me but for herself. Or she learns nothing from all this and is not worth a single breathe. Its hard to say that about a person I love deeply. But it is trurthful.
The thing that shocked me was the speed of everything. How everything changed in 5 weeks. No build up. Just Wham. A black and white town.
Same story, different characters! One week we were passionately making a baby, excited about starting a family. 4 weeks later he was telling me how he "feels complacent" and how he isn't excited about Christmas this year and is not feeling passion for me. It was sudden.
It's great that you know ladybug will not end up with OM and you know it will end! I hope that makes it a little easier to stick to NC.
But it is the day to day little things in attention and affection that she craves
My WH is similar...
Newmama / cutter,
This is not meant to be a highly thought about post or something deep and meaningful. What I actually want to say is
<expletive removed> me ...
Our three sitches are so similar. Cutter, our W's are almost identical in needs. The sitch of the A is slightly different but the person is the same. Only difference is my W is insecure too, I believe because of her past (mother and father rejecting her). She is also highly sexual and, again I believe, confuses love and sex (they are not the same thing).
Because of these traits, I believe that the A will last - because she will cling onto him for dear life because she is so afraid of being alone and also the OM will cling to her as, he is 45, has a 34 year old girlfriend and has sex on tap ... how many OM's would turn that down?
Sorry for the hijack, I just really was taken aback. A more thought about reply will come soon. Day is slightly better than it was but head is still 'mince' (Scottish term :))
Hey P aways welcome at cutters place
Affairs do not last. She may move on to another. But its not that $(*(
I am probally alot like your H.
Were you moody?
Hey P aways welcome at cutters place
Affairs do not last. She may move on to another. But its not that $(*(
I feel this one will last cutter. I haven't worked out what my gut thinks as it doesn't have enough info yet (oh I would DEARLY like to find OM's ex-GF (I believe he dumped her for my W although not 100% sure) and ex-W to ask them about him - obviously I won't!)
I am probally alot like your H.
Were you moody?
ROTFL ... sorry. Was I MOODY? Ehh, yeah! Just a little bit, however I now understand why I was moody and I also understand my role in creating it which is a bit of a revelation. I was also depressed for the last 6-12 months due to the M. When W left, it lifted almost the week after which was just weird ...
Leave out one word. And the whole context changes
Newmama......
I am laughting so hard right now.
Good news P.
The friend who was staying at my house went back to his wife. They drove 2000 miles to thank me for helping them get their marriage back to a point that they have the chance to work on it.
Being a good mate works. Speak the truth.
Real life stuff.
Spent evening with FIL ( his birthday ) Had 2 pops and then went to a hockey game.
2 pops? C-bug, where are you from? ;-)
Actually they were wobbly pops. Canada
Well, I don't know what a "wobbly pop" is, but in my hometown (Buffalo) "pop" is synonymous with what they call "soda" here in the metro NYC area. Thought maybe you were from my neck o' the woods...
I think cutter is trying to politely say .... beers?
Actually I am just across the lake from Buffalo
Cutter, were you telling ME that you were like my H, or were you telling P you were like his W? And is that why you are laughing?
Actually I am not too moody but WH is!
Here is how it should have been.
Hey P aways welcome at cutters place smile
Affairs do not last. She may move on to another. But its not that $(*( wink
Newmama
I am probally alot like your H.
Were you moody?
I had an intersting day with my mom. She knows I am still in love with ladybug. So we talk about everything. And I have told her everything. Her feelings go betweeen hate and love. And she left the relationship with ladybug at. If you want to work on the marriage then i will help you else, we no longer talk.
We still talk about D-day and everything. It has really helped. But I would like to end these conversations. But its hard. Any advice?
I hate this site. I wish I never found out about it. I takes over my life.
And I care very deeply about you all. I know you feel the same thought.
how do the members who have been here for years keep it going ??????
I do struggle coming here.
Haha! It's a love hate relationship with this site! I think breaks are necessary. The longest I've gone without coming here is 2 days though,since I started in November.
About ending conversations with your mom...how about not letting them start? Ex: "Cutter, how are you doing today? Have you heard from Ladybug?" "Mom, sorry but I just need to take a break from talking about it for awhile. I'll bring it up when I'm ready to talk."
The above phrase is almost verbatim (WH not Ladybug) when my friends and family have asked me and I can't bear to talk about it. It works nicely, no one is offended and I can change the subject.
My mom also goes back and forth with love-hate for WH as well! But at least she still wants us to R.
I think I've been on the site 2yrs. I sucked every ounce of support I could at every chance I had.
I come now to see others succeed and give those support that are going through what I went through.
I am amazed every day how similar all these situations are. I wish the solutions were easier.
I have developed a strong hatred for OM's and OW's. Nobody should be interfering in a marriage. Though I realize there's responsibilities on the spouse too, its just easier to want to get after these O's.
Cutter, Merry Christmas! I'll be thinking of you, too! Take care. It could be tough but we'll all get through it.
Well. Went to MIL and FIL's today. Dropped off gifts for them and BIL and SIL and her children.
MIL had my stocking for me and a present.
I thought back the tears. Smiled and drank my tea. Helped them with some computer stuff and left. Gave a big hug and said to say hi to everyone over xmas.
I did not think I would have a stocking this year. One hard thing over with. A few more to go.
Good job keeping your composure. Your IL's can say "he's doing great!" if WW asks them! I realize your buddies may not give you gifts like my girlfriends, but it is extra nice that your IL's did! And that is very sweet of you to give your IL's family gifts. I did not this year but they know I love them! I don't expect anything from them and totally understand.
And yes, your WW is looking for reasons to contact you...DVD's right before Christmas? Yeah right.
But it counts for trying to contact you like I predicted!
Cutter!
I lost you earlier... Wi-Fi down... Glad I was leaving then!
You're almost through a very hard day. Congratulations for making it through w/dignity and honor.
Merry Christmas!!!
PS - You could be my H's identical twin! Seriously!! Whoa!
One of the sweetest things. 7:30Am Neice (SIL ) texted me a merry xmas. She is a good kid. I told her I may have a hard day. So she texted me throughout the day... And the evening before. SIL's kids are great. I am really thankful for that relationship. Worth the effort to keep it going. Watched a few movies with mom and dad. At the end mom said. See it was not that bad. All positive.
My reply was. Your kidding right. Today sucked. This is so hard.
Got home and had a few friends pop by to watch the latest family guy dvd.
Now to relax to some music and sleep in
Cutter!
I lost you earlier... Wi-Fi down... Glad I was leaving then!
You're almost through a very hard day. Congratulations for making it through w/dignity and honor.
Merry Christmas!!!
PS - You could be my H's identical twin! Seriously!! Whoa!
Few differences
Thank you mindfull. Thank you very much.
Hey Cutter,
Been meaning to visit your thread here for awhile.
I understand the love/hate R with this site! Sometimes it consumes me, but it has been such a lifeline. You were part of that for me, so thank you.
I am sorry yesterday sucked for you. I am amazed at how strong the people on this site are, you included. You survived it my friend, and you continue to survive and move forward.
I hope today is better for you!
p.s. I was reading farther back on this thread, you were discussing how OM is the complete opposite of you. My H has been discussing this with his IC... how OW is the complete opposite of me in every way you can imagine. She has been talking with him about how he can find ways to meet the needs he thought she would bring into his life within his M and in other ways in his life. H is starting to get this now... I think!
Did you find an IC for yourself? I seem to recall you were looking?
Cutter, you got through it! Your niece is sweet.And it sounds like you ended the night on a positive even though this is probably the hardest thing any of us have dealt with (the A).
One more holiday to go before 2010... (at least in the USA)
Hey cutter,
How are you today? Tried to give you a call to wish Merry Xmas but something is wrong ... all I get is the dead tone!
Anyway, take care mate. Let us know how you get on. Things will get better. A new year. A new you. A new life. With or without ladybug.
You CAN handle this.
My inlaws rock. From BIL.
On christmas they opened all my presents infront of Ladybug.
So she got to watch that. And my neice went on and on how I got her a cool present. FIL did not speak to her once during the whole day. She was moody the whole day. And left in a huff after dinner.
He also mentioned that she is pressuring SIL to stop having the kids see me. And SIL and neice got in a fight with her over it.
Guess the whole family acceptance is not going according to plan.
Who would have guessed that adultery would not be accepted ????
This made my day.
All of what you explained was the next best Christmas present for a year like this!!!
Cutter, sorry, I assumed the best present would have been reconciliation. Unless I am projecting my wishes onto you!
Sorry to leave you hanging, Cutter! I slacked on my thread replies yesterday!
New message from Ladybug.
Request to Meet - Please respond by December 31st.
Hi Cutter,
I hope you're well and had a nice Christmas, all things considered.
Can you please let me know your availability the week of January 4th? I'd like to sit down
with you to discuss several loose ends that we need to tie up, including the separation agreement and plans for the house.
I'm not making any demands on you, I just want to get an idea of what your intentions are.
Is friend still staying there?
Have you done (or do you have plans for) any further renovations?
Please reply to my e-mail, or contact me by phone. My cell number is the best place to reach me.
xxx-xxx-xxxx.
Thanks,
Ladybug
So, Cutter, what do YOU think?
And, why do you call her Ladybug? I know if I were to give my H a nickname, it wouldn't be so cute!
Your in-laws are awesome!
Ya, gee... whodda thought adultery would not be accepted?
Further evidence of the fogged out alien brain!
So, what are you going to do about the email? Have you still been dark? At the very least, leave her hanging a few days while you think it out, make the best plan for you and what you need right now.
And its not even a thursday... First contact from her since 10th of December...
I figured she would come at me for after newyears... Email next week after the holidays. Did not expect one during the holidays.
Wonder if she will remember there is an IM ?
Nice that she hopes I am well and had a nice christmas.... yea....
I will think I will drop the hint with her parents that friend went back to work on his marriage because he realized that he was playing the irresponsible role of a cad than face up to a "mid-life crisis," or disappointments in his life.
That he would do the real work, being honest with his wife about marital problems, All of which require the strength of character and integrity that have gone missing from ladybug. He got back into reality and is dealing with what's really wrong.
Sorry for the ramble.
i call her ladybug because I am cutterbug. I decided I needed to reclaim the word was. As everytime I see it in the real world. I read walk away spouce... Which then ticked me off.
What am I going to do about it. Nothing. I do not see any reason to meet with her to discuss several loose ends. Do you?
I think I will contact IM and meet up with him to verify that the seperation papers are still the latest one. Verify that I have signed them.
As always. I am open to suggestions or paths that I have not noticed.
I have decided to follow the daily horrorscope.
ladybugs
The time has come to clear the air with a partner. You might have some trepidation, but you know that it is necessary. Your words fall on another's ears perhaps differently from how you intended them. Be ready to revamp your communication. Tonight: Find a friend to hang out with.
Mine
Know when to keep your own counsel. You could be out of sorts. Stay mum , knowing that there are other solutions. Don't show your hand or say something you could regret later. Tonight: Squeeze in as much R 'n' R as possible.
What am I going to do about it. Nothing. I do not see any reason to meet with her to discuss several loose ends. Do you?
What are the loose ends? Why do YOU think you don't need to meet with her? Are you not cutting your nose off to spite your face? Do you see this as a test?
I think I will contact IM and meet up with him to verify that the seperation papers are still the latest one. Verify that I have signed them.
I'm not sure I understand. If you have already signed separation papers then what is there to discuss about them?
As always. I am open to suggestions or paths that I have not noticed.
Did you make it clear to Ladybug at the beginning that you would have no contact with her while the A was going on?
Cutter, did you make those horoscopes up? Amazing if you did not! They rarely line up with actual events!
You are very strong to continue on your NC. I do have a q though.. aren't the conditions for contact from the WAS are to discuss either ending the R or reconciling? Just clarifying here, but how will you know if she wants to do either of those? I mean does the IM check with her?
BTW I don't know the rules for your area but if the separation agreement has been signed, then is there anything else to do--is there a designated length of time that the SA is good for?
Do you have to be separated a certain length of time before divorce?
If she is in the A, her thinking is cloudy and as you know, it is worthless to talk to her! she no sense makes!
Stay strong. I admire your ability to define goals and stick with your plan.
Sounds like you dropped the rope and now she's wondering where you are. Possibly she wants to make sure you are available on her first call.
Is IM some kind of lawyer?
Where did you get those horoscopes? I'd like to get mine too.
got lots of questions to answer will do tomorrow...
Thanks guys and gals.
Its a hard path we walk in darkness.
But I am prepairing for what she has coming at me next.
Spite. Attempt to regain control.
I see this game forming right now.
Going at her family to stop talking to me.
Trying to turn friends against me.
Going to try to push me out of my Saturday night hang out.
Emails and phone calls will start up again on selling house and "loose ends"
Pushing my buttons to see if I care.
Its all so childish. And its easy to see right thru it.
How to combat it?
Spite you combat with silence and lovingly detatch.
Control. Well only I am incontrol of my life.
Family : Keep in touch , be the loving son-inlaw, brother-inlaw, uncle that I am. ( Did that today with MIL and FIL... They had me over for dinner ...and this weekend BIL and SIL are taking me out for dinner )
Friends : Informed them that spite is coming. And that I do not wish to hear about it. Also mentioned that she is around again because OM has kids that night so she is looking to kill time with people that I hang out with. A Push. And that if they are going out with her that night to just give me a heads up. That way in can make other plans because I do not want to make anyone uncomfortable or place them in the middle. Support the person not the adultery speach...
Emails and phone calls... silence
Button pushing. Well thats why you double or triple thread them. I am no longer the pushover that I became as our marriage went on. Perhaps she will releaze this one day. Perhaps not.
Ahh the game. One you can control or one you react in. I have decided that I am in control. I decided this on Sept. 17th 2009
One plans for reactions. So I am prepaired.
I think you are doing a fab job being you Cutter!
Ahh the game. One you can control or one you react in. I have decided that I am in control. I decided this on Sept. 17th 2009
One plans for reactions. So I am prepaired.
The battle starts. Good luck. I know either way you will be okay.
My worry is the first test. That is the most important one and the one that will decide the tone for the rest of the battle. If you show any weakpoints she will exploit them (human nature) if you don't show any she will continue to probe your defences until she decides you have none and then either give up or launch an all out attack.
I think you have her beat before she starts, especially with her family on-side.
Cutter I am waiting for you to answer our qs!
One thing I do know...ladybug is just pulling out all the stops to get your attention. But her family has YOUR back, you informed your friends, so this is all going to go your way!
She will get mad and erupt in some form, but she will be missing you even more because you are not communicating with her! She is in the chasing mode, even if she is not chasing for reconciliation purposes (YET). Just chasing.
So, Cutter, what do YOU think?
Well Mindfull. I think that I do not answer to her anymore. Once she decided to have an open marriage. I closed the door.
What am I going to do about it. Nothing. I do not see any reason to meet with her to discuss several loose ends. Do you?
What are the loose ends? Why do YOU think you don't need to meet with her? Are you not cutting your nose off to spite your face? Do you see this as a test?
We have two loose ends. 1 sign seperation papers. Which are at the IM's house. All she needs to do is go over there and sign them. Then selling of the house starts on April 1st. And the second one is transfer retirement savings. Which require her to send me a piece of paper. Then I transfer them. Thats it. No other loose ends.
I think I will contact IM and meet up with him to verify that the seperation papers are still the latest one. Verify that I have signed them.
I'm not sure I understand. If you have already signed separation papers then what is there to discuss about them?
Nothing to discuss between you and I Nor between ladybug and I But hey maybe she does not remember the conversations and writting them out and saying that the IM would be the keyholder of these papers. Perhaps it was a foggy day that day.
As always. I am open to suggestions or paths that I have not noticed.
Did you make it clear to Ladybug at the beginning that you would have no contact with her while the A was going on?
Cutter, did you make those horoscopes up? Amazing if you did not! They rarely line up with actual events!
You are very strong to continue on your NC. I do have a q though.. aren't the conditions for contact from the WAS are to discuss either ending the R or reconciling? Just clarifying here, but how will you know if she wants to do either of those? I mean does the IM check with her?
I answered that one up there. But if its D. She just has file a year from Sept 15th. I get it in the mail sign it and thats that. If she wants to reconcil then she will let me know. Its my choice on what to do then.
BTW I don't know the rules for your area but if the separation agreement has been signed, then is there anything else to do--is there a designated length of time that the SA is good for?
Do you have to be separated a certain length of time before divorce?
If she is in the A, her thinking is cloudy and as you know, it is worthless to talk to her! she no sense makes!
I agree 100% worthless to talk to her
Is IM some kind of lawyer?
IM is a mutual friend who is friends to both of us. He contacts neither. We must contact him.
Where did you get those horoscopes? I'd like to get mine too.
Ahh the game. One you can control or one you react in. I have decided that I am in control. I decided this on Sept. 17th 2009
One plans for reactions. So I am prepaired.
The battle starts. Good luck. I know either way you will be okay.
My worry is the first test. That is the most important one and the one that will decide the tone for the rest of the battle. If you show any weakpoints she will exploit them (human nature) if you don't show any she will continue to probe your defences until she decides you have none and then either give up or launch an all out attack.
I think you have her beat before she starts, especially with her family on-side.
Mine too my friend. First test seems the hardest... But nothing will be as hard as D-Day.
But always remember.
She has the choice to live the rest of her life bitter at me for her failures and mistakes. Or come to terms with that and make ammends with herself.
Her choice.
I cannot save her.
And always remember. If things are going great. WAS's eyes thoughts actions do not point in your direction. Cause who needs LBS when life is perfect.
Cutter,
I have two comments on your first post:
1. There is nothing to talk to her about. You appear to have no loose ends that she cannot close on her own (retirement savings and separation papers). Talking to her serves you no purpose and obviously serves her a purpose (otherwise she wouldn't be asking). That in itself is a reason not to.
2. This is all about control - of you, of the house or the sitch. Whatever. It's about control for her. Another reason not to indulge her in it.
And always remember. If things are going great. WAS's eyes thoughts actions do not point in your direction. Cause who needs LBS when life is perfect.
I however have the added guilt of a D so I cannot tell if it's me she is interested in or D. That possibly didn't sound right but I hope you know what I mean!
But nothing will be as hard as D-Day.
Indeed. That is the one I am dreading emotionally.
Cutter I am waiting for you to answer our qs!
One thing I do know...ladybug is just pulling out all the stops to get your attention. But her family has YOUR back, you informed your friends, so this is all going to go your way!
She will get mad and erupt in some form, but she will be missing you even more because you are not communicating with her! She is in the chasing mode, even if she is not chasing for reconciliation purposes (YET). Just chasing.
I expect that she will drop by one day.
Chasing...
Sorry P
When I say D-day... that was the day I confronted. And got my answers
A song to end the year. For those who shine the light once in awhile
The xx- Shelter
I find shelter, in this way
Under cover, hide away
Can you hear, when I say?
I have never felt this way
Maybe I had said, something that was wrong
Can I make it better, with the lights turned on
Maybe I had said, something that was wrong
Can I make it better, with the lights turned on
Could I be, was I there?
It felt so crystal in the air
I still want to drown, whenever you leave
Please teach me gently, how to breathe
And I'll cross oceans, like never before
So you can feel the way I feel it too
And I'll mirror images back at you
So you can see the way I feel it too
Maybe I had said, something that was wrong
Can I make it better, with the lights turned on
Maybe I had said, something that was wrong
Can I make it better, with the lights turned on
Maybe I had said, something that was wrong
Can I make it better, with the lights turned on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIC0R2wjZ8s
Well. I found newyears very hard. Being at that party with everyone who I bring every newyears in and it was short one person from our gang. At 3am when it was all winding down. I said Stupid B**ch and it was caught by a good friend so we ended up talking about her for an hour. Disappointment. The whole wedding party hanging out except for the maid of honour.
Other fronts I get an email from my IM.
Goes like this
Ladybug is odd
Your ex chased me down to find out about you. I hold her I hadn't heard from you in 3 weeks. Then she told you were ok as you spent time with your niece and nephew.
She is a messed up camper.
So I replied back asking what did she want ?
So that is good. Took 3 months of training but lets see if she goes through the IM again...
Hey cutter,
Was going to reply to you here but when I had finished I realised that all I was talking about was my sitch. That's better on my thread!
I know how you feel. You started the year with her but didn't end it with her. Now you are starting a new year without her. I do feel for you and for everybody else who is doing this. I had no idea for a MINUTE that it would actually be this hard on this one day.
On the other front. Ladybug is chasing. Early days but it's something.
Take care.
Wow P. This song hits a cord. And says how I am feeling about things today. This one is for you my friend. What a beautiful voice
Florence And The Machine - Dog Days Are Over Happiness hit her like a train on a track
Coming towards her stuck still no turning back
She hid around corners and she hid under beds
She killed it with kisses and from it she fled
With every bubble she sank with her drink
And washed it away down the kitchen sink
The dog days are over
The dog days are done
The horses are coming
So you better run
Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
Leave all your loving, your loving behind
You cant carry it with you if you want to survive
The dog days are over
The dog days are done
Can you hear the horses?
'Cause here they come
And i never wanted anything from you
Except everything you had and what was left after that too, oh
Happiness hit her like a bullet in the head
Struck from a great height by someone who should know better than that
The dog days are over
The dog days are done
Can you hear the horses?
'Cause here they come
Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
Leave all your loving, your loving behind
You cant carry it with you if you want to survive
The dog days are over
The dog days are done
Can you hear the horses?
'Cause here they come
The dog days are over
The dog days are done
The horses are coming
So you better run
Happy New Year cutterbug!
I didn't know it would be so hard for me too.
Wow P. This song hits a cord. And says how I am feeling about things today. This one is for you my friend. What a beautiful voice
That song was written for WAS's ... do they think they know this?!?!
Great song. Very appropriate. Smiled. Laughed. Felt sorry for W.
Ladybug is odd
Your ex chased me down to find out about you. I hold her I hadn't heard from you in 3 weeks. Then she told you were ok as you spent time with your niece and nephew.
She is a messed up camper.
Wonder why ladybug appeared to be such a wreck to your IM!?!
no idea newmama... no idea at all.
Wish I could read minds. Then again... maybe that would not be such a good thing.
Perhaps she needs to wrap things up , or rock the boat, or see if i am around still , or she needs to regain control ,or she needs the money tied up in our house for her new life, or she is becoming undone , or she just wants everything with us to end.
Who knows?
IM has not talked to her since the summer when all this went down. A few emails to him and thats that.
His reply to me on what she wanted was as follows
She wanted to know of I has heard from you as she couldn't reach you.
Nothing else.
So 30% of the lesson on contacting IM has been met. Next she needs to relay some thoughts to him on what she wants.
Looking forward to seeing her next move on the board game.
Hi Cutter!
So 30% of the lesson on contacting IM has been met. Next she needs to relay some thoughts to him on what she wants.
Hey, contacting IM is a start! Didn't mean to suggest you do mindreading, I guess when someone is a wreck, it indicates stress in their life from some source!
Today Newmama I think I really felt like I completely dropped the rope. I took SIL to the hospital. Nephew was with me. And him and I talked about ladybug and her life. And I just thought. I am completely done. This woman does not even deserve the chance to even talk to me ever again. All I could think during the conversation was. Why would I ever want to get back with this person. Sure we have history. But seriously why? I see no benifit at all. Then on the ride home. SIL was telling me that ladybug cannot contact me and was wondering if I was going to talk to her about tieing up lose ends. And that she blew up about me not giving her a dvd or something like that. I replied. The day she commited adultery was the day I stopped doing what she asked or demanded. I am not at her beck and call. I am not her parent. Thats what doucebag is for. If she really wanted this dvd or what ever next it after that she can go spend the 10 dollars and buy a new copy. Or she could have moved all her crap out back in Sept. Oct. Or she can have her dad come over and pick all the crap up. As to the rest. She can send me or IM the piece of paper to transfer the 401k stuff and the house goes for sale April 1st. We talked about all this back in August and Sept.
Then I said. You know what. She didn't keep to any of the other promises or papers we signed. But she will keep to those conversations. And if she does not like it she can do the effort to sell the house. This is on my terms now. And I do not waste my breathe on anyone who does not respect me as a human being. She treats me worse than a dog. I am completely done with her and her BS. Maybe she should figure out why she needs to contact me every two weeks about some BS item.
I said this fully knowing it would be said verbatim back to her.
I really am starting to feel that this is truely not worth the effort.
I am patient. But the love... I did not feel it at all today. Not one bit. Normally when I speak of her. I feel something. Today it was just F-it. I do not want to ever have her as friend. I truly do not believe we could ever be lovers again. So where does this leave me?
I know I have always said April was the time line to keep the door ajar. But I am struggling to keep to this time line. Everyday more and more of me just wants to close it completely.
I am sick and tired of thinking about it all the time. 7 months of thinking about this all the time.
I know I say parallel paths. And I have followed it. But, today I just got so frustrated. If we did not have this wedding coming up. I could go the rest of my life without ever seeing her again. Its not hate. Its indifference. And this is the first time I have felt this complete indifference.
Sorry about the rant. I am just processing all this. And I will see how my thoughts are in a week. But its the start of a different feeling. Just not sure exactly what it is.
Hi Cutter,
"They" say when you start feeling indifferent it means you're ready to let go.
Soleil, I'll borrow your quote.
Sorry about the rant. I am just processing all this. And I will see how my thoughts are in a week. But its the start of a different feeling. Just not sure exactly what it is.
Cutter,
You and I have had very similar days today my friend.
Indifference.
Complete indifference.
We put ourselves through this mess because we love them. But there are limits and there are only so many times you can be kicked in the teeth until you say no more. No more hurt. No more pain. No more WAS. I am done. I am finished. Stop the train, I'm getting off here.
For me I am actually a bit worried about how similar our paths are.
IMO Ladybug is losing control over her life now, or maybe she is now realising how little control she has. She's lashing out at you while at the same time trying to gain contact. You know this. She isn't going to be nice to you - you know that too.
I'm drained today. Completely drained. Whether it's lack of sleep or emotionally distraught I don't know. However I don't want to comment any further until I know I can do it justice.
Take care cutter. We will need to sort out a time to speak soon. Thinking of you!
We put ourselves through this mess because we love them. But there are limits and there are only so many times you can be kicked in the teeth until you say no more. No more hurt. No more pain. No more WAS. I am done. I am finished. Stop the train, I'm getting off here.
P & Cutter, feeling the same guys. Either our rollercoasters are synchronized and we are on the lows, or having sympathy pains or just reaching the same points on this "ride".
{{hugs}}
Cutter, the reality is that you don't have to stay with Ladybug. You do have a longer history than I do with WH but (sadly) you don't have kids together. NOT that having kids should be the only reason to stay with someone but if you love the person AND share kids,it makes it more compelling to try to make it work.
Everyone knows that the BS has every right to stay or go no matter if there are kids or not. But, I feel uncomfortable saying this, I honestly think it is easier to GO when there aren't kids involved. Easy shmeesy...it's all relative.
And you can see how you feel next week! If you are at a minimum letting go of the rope, then that is a-ok.Letting go does not mean anything permanent.
NOW if you decide to hold on a little longer...so what if ladybug blows up at you and gets pissed. It doesn't mean anything!! Any human being would get mad if their former spouse stopped communicating with them altogether. Keep sticking to your plan.
Is your SIL all right? And how did YOU end up taking her to the hospital?
well speak of the devil. The phone rings. I get the spiderly tingles going. Let it go. I am thinking if it rings again in 10 and then in 10 again its ladybug. Time to see if I can pass the test of controlling a conversation based on my feelings to day. Time for some 180's on my stitch. I am in complete control now. So out of the dark I go. To resolve a few issues.
Talked to ladybug for 30 minutes. Finalized everything. Papers signed in a week. She comes and gets the rest of her stuff on the 23rd. House for sale Apr 1st. Going to communicate directly for the seperation papers. Back date it to the 15th of Sept. Communicate directly over taxes.
Conversation goes like this
LB:Cutter we need to talk.
C: Ladybug. Ok lets talk ( I pause and mute the phone and take a few deep breaths. And go. Lets do this. Lets see how strong I am. Lets see if I can take complete control of this conversation. Lets see if I can do what all LBS should do. Take Complete control of their lives )
Silence
C: Ok what do you want to talk about
LB: I have a few loose ends we need to tie up cutter. We need to talk about them now.
C: Ok what do you want to talk about
When she complained about me sitting on the house to april. She said that she was upset that I made a decision that affected the both of us without her consent and that it was very unconsiderate. I replied back that since she had made a few decisions over the last year that affected me without my consent that were very unconsiderate I was allowed to follow a choice decision that we had talked about in Sept. without any additional input.
My words were as follows
C: Well since you have made a few decisions about my life without being considerate of my feelings I have decided that I am staying in this house until April 1st. On that day this house goes on the market. Next topic that you wish to talk about
Silence 1 minute
C:Ok. Since there are no more this conversation is .....
Pause 15 seconds
LB: I have a few more items to talk about
Pause 15 seconds
C: Ok. Your stuff. There are a few options here.
Option 1. I take all your stuff you left behind and dump it in the trailer and your dad picks it up
LB: Well I do not think its fair to have my dad in the middle. Whats your second option?
C: You tell me.
LB: well I will come over and get it.
C: Well I am not here this day. You can come there.
Silence about 30 seconds
C:Ok what is next on the list
Silence about 20 seconds
C:Ok. Seperation papers. They are ready to be signed. So lets get this over with.
Silence about 20 seconds
LB: OK. But I do not want IM to see them again. Only when he witnesses them. Can you send back the updated ones.
C: OK. I will email them to you on friday. I agree he can just sign them and we will work this one out between us. Also taxes. We can work this one out as well. I am filling seperatly.
LB: Well should we not wait to see what is best for both of us.
C: Well we are seperated since Sept. When you left so I file seperatly. ( Knowing that I have kept paying all the tax deductable savings and she has been spending her money travelling around the world ... I warned her... oh well )
Silence again 30 seconds... I can really tell this conversation is not going according to plan. So I toss a curve ball
C:Thank you very much for allowing me to continue my relationship with FIL, MIL, SIL Neice and nephew. I am glad you did not get in the way.
LB: Well I want to talk to you about that....
C: Go on.
LB: I was upset I did not get a dvd when neice was over there. She said that I was inconsiderate of her feelings about getting the dvd to her before the holidays.
C: Well I am not at your beck and call and I was angry that you used neice as a messanger. IF you really needed the dvd you could rent or buy it.
LB: I will not buy a dvd I own. You were not considerate of my feelings and not civil there.
C: I can see how you feel that way.
LB: and your silence was not being considerate.
C:I was going through the grieving stages. Denial, Anger , Bargining, Depression and finally acceptance.
Silence. So I let the word acceptance linger
C: I decided that I would not make rash decisions. So I took time to figure out what I wanted to do. And when I was ready. I decided that it was time I let you know. I know now what I want.
Silence for a minute
LB:If you hear something you do not like or feel it hurts you you can always call me to clear it out. There are rumours.
C:Do not worry I tell everyone I do not want to hear about your life as I am no longer apart of it. I am assuming you are doing the same because you are no longer apart of my life
Silence.
I just wait now to see what she says.
LB:I wanted to talk to you about the upcoming wedding. I do not want...
Silence.
C:Please finish the sentance.
Pause. Waiting to see if she will say the word adultery.
C:Please complete your thought then.
Silence.
C:I am still waiting. Do not start a sentance and wait for me to finish it.
Silence.
C:Here is the thing Ladybug. I do not bad mouth you to anyone about being the maid of honour. I never once said you should step down.I perfer that people for their own opinion of you based on your actions over the last year
Silence.
C:Do not worry I will be civil at the wedding.
LB:How do you see us communicating down the road?
C:Smile and wave.
Silence 10 seconds.
C:Do not worry I will be civil. That is all I see.
C: anything else?
LB:How is your friend who stayed at the house? Is he still there?
C:t is good. I convinced him to go back and work on his marriage. And he is back there doing the hard work to fix his marriage. All in all it cost him about 80K.
LB:Its all about the money then?
C:the money is the least important part of all of this.
NOW I AM THINKING. YEA I JUST LOOPED YOU INTO A R TALK. ONE WHERE YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THE ANSWER. HERE IS THE FINAL DROP THE ROPE.
LB: So do you see us working this out like them.
C: I would have to take some time to think about that. But in the current situation I do not see anything.
25 second pause.
C: So ladybug. How do you think.
LB: Repeated my words in the current situation I do not see anything.
C: Well I got to go now. I have hockey. Have a good night ladybug and take care.
LB: good night cutter.
I hang up
So now the next step in this is to contact her. Cancel the picking of stuff up day... Pick another day.
State. I want to be here when you come over. I do not want any differences in what stays and leaves. We work it out that day. Everything that is yours is gone that day. Everything you leave behind is mine.
I need to pass test two. See her before the jack and jill and the wedding.
I am very proud of myself tonight.
One last post.
This is where I needed to be.
LBS. Controls their own destiny. I have gained control. I wish every LBS who reads this burns this in their memory. It is not about them. IT IS ABOUT YOU. YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN LIFE.
Cutter, I think you are a true man of honor.
I am sorry mindfull i do not understand?
P.S. Thanks every one for posting the last two days....
Hugs.
And I am very proud I controlled a conversation. Been along time.
I flat out love hearing the was getting grilled.
Cutter,
I have been lurking around for the past 4 months following your threads (and P17, newmama, and daybyday). Reading your conversation you had with LB and forced me out of my silence to say: BLOODY WELL DONE! You should be very proud of yourself!
This is the first I've really read in this thread, and I too must say well done.
I will try to catch up on the entire sitch, this is an inspiration to me- and I can only hope that your words will remian burned in my mind- this is about me, and me taking back control of my life.
I appreciate the inspiration.
I am sorry mindfull i do not understand?
Excellent job on the conversation. You kept your composure, your beliefs in check, etc...
Cutter, you did FABULOUS! WOW! I think she must have been floored by your confidence and take charge attitude!
Now this part confuses me:
LB: So do you see us working this out like them.
C: I would have to take some time to think about that. But in the current situation I do not see anything.
25 second pause.
C: So ladybug. How do you think.
LB: Repeated my words in the current situation I do not see anything.
Does LB want to work things out some day? Why did she ask?
Cutter, you did FABULOUS! WOW! I think she must have been floored by your confidence and take charge attitude!
Now this part confuses me:
LB: So do you see us working this out like them.
C: I would have to take some time to think about that. But in the current situation I do not see anything.
25 second pause.
C: So ladybug. How do you think.
LB: Repeated my words in the current situation I do not see anything.
Does LB want to work things out some day? Why did she ask?
She asked that question because I set her up for it. I wanted to end the conversation highlighting that I have dropped the rope. And I got her to say the exact same words back to me.
I needed to finish strong. I needed to say those words exactly how I said them.
This may be bad. But I felt very good throughout the conversation. I kept a very monotone voice. And did not ever hesitate when I spoke. And when I spoke it was exactly how you said. confidence and take charge attitude!
Now this is a 180. And I am going to communicate every thing now with her with confidence and take charge attitude.
This is the first time in my life that I heard her hesitate. I could feel her losing control of the conversation. Then I could tell that this conversation was not going according to plan.
I truly believe she came into that conversation thinking that she was going to gain control of me again. As I believe that things are starting to come undone. And she knows now that she has lost control of me. And I think she desperatly needed to take control of something. Must suck living with the boss in a rental. Kids hate you. Parents disappointed. Losing close friends due to her actions. Losing your husband's love. Losing control of life.
She has always been quick witted. Strong in conversations. Never pauses. And that was the first time I ever heard her hesitate, stutter and not sound confident.
Going foward each conversation with her now will be with purpose. Financial stuff. Within a day. BS stuff ignore. House and seperation stuff within a day.
I am going to have to process all this. As much has happened in the last few days with myself after such a tough holiday.
Hugs to everyone who has taken time out of their lives to help me. I will never forget this help. Unconditional love. Thankyou.
It took 7 months to get to this point.
As always. Opinions and 2x4's where needed.
We put ourselves through this mess because we love them. But there are limits and there are only so many times you can be kicked in the teeth until you say no more. No more hurt. No more pain. No more WAS. I am done. I am finished. Stop the train, I'm getting off here.
P & Cutter, feeling the same guys. Either our rollercoasters are synchronized and we are on the lows, or having sympathy pains or just reaching the same points on this "ride".
{{hugs}}
We will help each other through this next stage.
Cutter,
I have been lurking around for the past 4 months following your threads (and P17, newmama, and daybyday). Reading your conversation you had with LB and forced me out of my silence to say: BLOODY WELL DONE! You should be very proud of yourself!
Hi oflahert.
Maybe its time to join in and offer a helping hand.
Is your SIL all right? And how did YOU end up taking her to the hospital?
Newmama. SIL is very sick and has kemo every 8 weeks. I make the day very calm for her. And she is such a good person. I have been taking her to Kemo for the last 18 months. And she has 18 months to go. I love her very much. And anything I can do to help get through the sickness I will do. Plus I love her children. Since I do not have any I always lived through them. They are so important in my life. And I am in theres. It is a relationship that I wish to have until my days are done.
Thanks newmama.
well speak of the devil. The phone rings. I get the spiderly tingles going.
Cutter,
I too just want to chime in say well done. You're there my friend. You have finally jumped the wall and standing, hands on hips, can now speak your mind clearly, concisely, confidently and calmly.
Ladybug will take a few days to process this info I think. She will be wondering what that was all about. Where did the old cutter go? What has happened to him? Wait a minute, how did he do that?
I think the end question was particularly good, especially the final word being acceptance.
I think once she wakes up from her kidney punch she will come back at you. She won't lie down to this, but then you know that.
Very proud of you. Have no fear now that you are walking, sorry MARCHING, down that road now. Shortly to overtake Ladybug who has sprained her ankle.
As always. Opinions and 2x4's where needed.
The only question I have is .... is this it over for you? No more Ladybug?
Bravo Cutter!! I pray I can be as strong and confident and in control as you if/when I have a convo with my WAH. Wow! Thanks for posting how it went... what an example.
Good luck with the followup convos. I'll be thinking of you.
Hi Cutter. I take it as a compliment that you invited me to drop by your thread. As usual, you are doing a great job. Few have come here and did as much as fast.
I don't really know anything to add. I have seen throughout people's threads that "drama" seems to be what sinks the ship the quickest. The WAW will try to pull you into that drama in order to get the control. If you don't wort it off, friends and family can pull you into the drama also. So, finding where your strength lies and hanging onto it.....and applying it....is what you have to do. You are doing it, as far as I can tell. I believe when the LBH "refuses" to be drawn into the drama that the WAW presents.....then she has no fight! How can you fight if the other person won't strike back?
As you well know, when a S or D is drawn up, angry emotions are all over the place and a perfect setting for a good case of drama. So, I encourage you to refuse to be emotional with her. Refuse to fall into her pits. Stay calm and collected in her presence. Smile & wave! She will make a mountain out of every molehill. So, sit back and smile & wave as if you think....."whatever".
I tried to contact you, but guess it was on the old thread. I was concerned about one of the newcomers we had been talking to about exposure. But, maybe he's got things under control. IDK. Just concerned about it.
Take care, Cutter.
LBS. Controls their own destiny. I have gained control. I wish every LBS who reads this burns this in their memory. It is not about them. IT IS ABOUT YOU. YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN LIFE.
Thank you Cutter - you've inspired me.
It took 7 months to get to this point.
It took me 2 years!
LBS. Controls their own destiny. I have gained control. I wish every LBS who reads this burns this in their memory. It is not about them. IT IS ABOUT YOU. YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN LIFE.
Thank you Cutter - you've inspired me.
It took 7 months to get to this point.
It took me 2 years!
Funny SF. You have always inspired me. I read your story back when I first joined. And you have come through some tough times. Kudos to you. You are a very smart person.
But thank you. Good luck to you. I have a feeling you will always land on your feet.
Hi Cutter. I take it as a compliment that you invited me to drop by your thread. As usual, you are doing a great job. Few have come here and did as much as fast.
I don't really know anything to add. I have seen throughout people's threads that "drama" seems to be what sinks the ship the quickest. The WAW will try to pull you into that drama in order to get the control. If you don't wort it off, friends and family can pull you into the drama also. So, finding where your strength lies and hanging onto it.....and applying it....is what you have to do. You are doing it, as far as I can tell. I believe when the LBH "refuses" to be drawn into the drama that the WAW presents.....then she has no fight! How can you fight if the other person won't strike back?
As you well know, when a S or D is drawn up, angry emotions are all over the place and a perfect setting for a good case of drama. So, I encourage you to refuse to be emotional with her. Refuse to fall into her pits. Stay calm and collected in her presence. Smile & wave! She will make a mountain out of every molehill. So, sit back and smile & wave as if you think....."whatever".
I tried to contact you, but guess it was on the old thread. I was concerned about one of the newcomers we had been talking to about exposure. But, maybe he's got things under control. IDK. Just concerned about it.
Take care, Cutter.
Oh thank you Sandi. Post on this one. Your words of wisdom are always welcome. I would really like if you kept an eye on me. As I know this is a very critical stage in my life. I do not want to back pedal. Too much suffered last year. Life, work. I am trying to get back on my feet. I hold you in the highest reguards.
I will make sure I read your post every day up to the the wedding. I will not have any issues with ladybug. I will be as I have always been. A gentleman.
Again. Thank you very much. If you would be so kind to check out P , DBD and NM threads as well. We are a 4 of a kind...
I want to know the answer to P's question: are you really done with ladybug?
I want to know the answer to P's question: are you really done with ladybug?
Good question.
Still got a little love locked away.
Lets leave it at that for now. As I am still processing the last 2 weeks.
But end of April is fast approaching. 115 days and the exit letter is sent. ( with the breakup cd I made Anyone wants a copy let me know. It has some good tunes on it. ) And I will not live in limbo. My life is too important to me. I am not in for a long haul. I see some people waiting 2 years for the affair to end. Thats just nuts. Life is too short. 2 years for the affair to end. Then a few months of withdrawl. And then hopefully they want to get back with ya. And then you have to decide if you want them back. Then a few years of rebuilding a broken relationship.
Its a huge chunk of time to live in LBS Fog of obsessing over WAS.
In that time I could do many wonderful things , even meet someone and fall in love and have a family if I want that.
I do feel like something has changed.
I just want normal sleeping patterns now. A day where I do not think about all this in some shape or fashion. It sucks thinking about events of all this half the day, every day.
My brain is tired. I am tired.
with the breakup cd I made Anyone wants a copy let me know. It has some good tunes on it.
I'd like to see the playlist. Hope it won't make me too sad.
Feeling the same as you. Life IS too short to wait 2 yrs or more for me. There's a better life out there waiting for me.
Hi Cutter. Well handled.
I have caught up on only about the last 4 pages of your thread, and I want to read more tonite before commenting. But you really sound good, and strong.
Re: the pauses; you don't think she might have been being coached, do you?
Puppy
01 Doves - Jetstream
02 Stereophonics - Dakota
03 The Soundtrack of Our Lives - Bigtime
04 the manchester orchestra - Shake It Out
05 Elbow - The Bones Of You
06 The Beatles - I'm Looking Through You
07 Sloan - Coax Me
08 The Dears - Lost In The Plot
09 Rogue Wave - Publish My Love
10 Broken Social Scene - Cause = Time
11 Foals - Balloons
12 The Stills - Still In Love Song
13 Kaiser Chiefs - Everyday I Love You Less and Less
14 Maximo Park - Apply Some Pressure
15 Metric - Help I'm Alive
16 The Beatles - Michelle
17 Sia - Breathe Me
18 Death Cab for Cutie - Transatlanticism
19 Doves - Sky Starts Falling
Hi Cutter. Well handled.
I have caught up on only about the last 4 pages of your thread, and I want to read more tonite before commenting. But you really sound good, and strong.
Re: the pauses; you don't think she might have been being coached, do you?
Puppy
No. Not coached at all. She left a broken man.
Why do you ask ?
Cutter:
I'm thinkin' you need to start 2010 w/a new theme...
"The Cupid Shuffle!" by, of course, CUPID!
With three kids at home, who are music freaks, I can't help but hear it 7200 times a day!!!
Cutter, WOW! love your playlist. I even looked up the lyrics. Such thoughtful choices to dedicate. Definitely have to be in a fog to not be affected by the words.
Thanks for the intro to these groups.
(((Cutter)))... just catching up on your sitch.
My friend, you did an amazing job! When I think about where we were both at in September, and see the changes we have made for OURSELVES since then, it truly is amazing. Yes, we have had different outcomes to our sitches, but the internal transformation is what is important.
If you truly are done with Ladybug, there will be a strong, confident Cutter who will likely some day meet a wonderful woman who will appreciate the man you are! And, if you are not, let me tell you... you most likely got her attention!
Bravo! *applause*
Cutter, 2 Qs:
1) Why Michelle on your playlist?
2) Are you letting yourself change the April deadline to sooner if you feel ready?
1)
Michelle, my belle.
These are words that go together well,
My Michelle.
There is a build up from track 13.
13 title says it all
14, theme is when you lose everything you start again. you start all over again.
15, That great song by metric. help i'm alive my heart is beating like a hammer. I am using it to talk about my fear of the future and how I am over coming it...
If we're still alive
My regrets are few
If my life is mine
What shouldn't I do?
I get wherever I'm going
I get whatever I need
While my blood's still flowing
And my heart's still
Beating like a hammer
Beating like a hammer
And then into my bell. my michelle. ( ladybug )
I think the lyrics speak for themselves.
Then our song. And something that is a theme around here. Fog, Distance, Shine the light. I am amazed on how the meaning of this song has changed over the years.
Most people were overjoyed; they took to their boats.
I thought it less like a lake and more like a moat.
The rhythm of my footsteps crossing floodlands to your door
Have been silenced forever more.
The distance is quite simply much too far for me to row
It seems farther than ever before
Oh no.
Then I finish with the song I started this thread on. And the meaning still stands.
Guess its a love cd. But truly it is me expressing what I went through with ladybug over the last 6 months. And how I did not give up when she did. I speak with music. I love music. It helps me through life. Good times and bad times. It is my one trusted companion.
2) Still keeping a little love locked away.
Guess its a love cd. But truly it is me expressing what I went through with ladybug over the last 6 months. And how I did not give up when she did. I speak with music. I love music. It helps me through life. Good times and bad times. It is my one trusted companion.
2) Still keeping a little love locked away.
It really shows it's a love cd. You definitely have a talent "speaking with music". Beautifully expressed. <sigh> Blind ladybug.
When I was in my deepest pain I listened to music lots and let the lyrics speak for my heart. Now, I don't want to listen to any music. I want to stay numb. I'm tired of feeling. (Although I did enjoy your playlist.)
I too made a CD like this for my wife. It was made up of "our songs" from over the years, and I named it, well . . . "Our Songs." (pretty creative, hunh?) I did add a colon: "Our Songs: With Love to My Jersey Girl," and Springsteen's Jersey Girl was one of the songs on there.
I did a lot of things like this for my wife over the years, but she's really not the romantic type. And the problem with doing something like this (or, say, anything from "The Love Dare" book) when you're DBing is that they come off as INCREDIBLY "pursuing."
If you can truly give it to her only "on your way out," and keep yourself from having any expectations that you'll get a reaction out of her, Cutter, than I think this is fine. You're doing it b/c "it's who I am." Just know that she may just see it as smothering and pursuing and pressuring.
Puppy
Hi Cutter,
"They" say when you start feeling indifferent it means you're ready to let go.
Just circling back a bit on your thread, Cutter, since I'd never really followed it before. Your feelings back on this day jumped out at me. I agree with the above, too, but I was also told that my feelings would jump all over the place from day to day, from love, to hate, to anger, to sadness, back to love, back to sadness, etc.
I was told when I got to "Disgust," I would know I was done.
I did, and I was, and I filed. We since reconciled, and pulled back from the abyss, and today are happier than we've been in years, but that was the emotion -- "disgust" -- that I needed to hit in order to file.
FWIW.
Puppy
Hi Cutter. Well handled.
I have caught up on only about the last 4 pages of your thread, and I want to read more tonite before commenting. But you really sound good, and strong.
Re: the pauses; you don't think she might have been being coached, do you?
Puppy
No reason -- I was just wondering if the reason there were so many pauses in her end of your conversation might have been that someone was listening in, and coaching her on what to say.
Puppy
No. Not coached at all. She left a broken man.
Why do you ask ?
It took 7 months to get to this point.
As always. Opinions and 2x4's where needed.
A couple of thoughts to ponder, Cutter, that jumped out at me from reading your thread:
- Normally, when someone communicates as much as you did to us how much they are "dropping the rope," or how important it is to them that they come across as dropping it . . . they haven't dropped it yet.
- It is always best to make potentially life-changing decisions when you're NOT experiencing ANGER. I felt a ton of anger (maybe "righteous indignation" would be a better term?) churning beneath the posts where you recounted your phone conversation with your wife, and the one with your SIL.
Don't get me wrong -- anger is neither good nor bad, in and of itself, and you have every reason of course to feel it. It's HEALTHY. Just be careful that you don't make big decisions when you're in the midst of feeling it.
Puppy
It took 7 months to get to this point.
As always. Opinions and 2x4's where needed.
A couple of thoughts to ponder, Cutter, that jumped out at me from reading your thread:
- Normally, when someone communicates as much as you did to us how much they are "dropping the rope," or how important it is to them that they come across as dropping it . . . they haven't dropped it yet.
- It is always best to make potentially life-changing decisions when you're NOT experiencing ANGER. I felt a ton of anger (maybe "righteous indignation" would be a better term?) churning beneath the posts where you recounted your phone conversation with your wife, and the one with your SIL.
Don't get me wrong -- anger is neither good nor bad, in and of itself, and you have every reason of course to feel it. It's HEALTHY. Just be careful that you don't make big decisions when you're in the midst of feeling it.
Puppy
Thanks for the questions. I will clarify these and a few from before. As I have thought about this way too much this week.
I dropped the rope to ladybug. Not myself. I am still pondering those thoughts. Still carrying on the path. I am a patient man. But my primary concern is for myself not my marriage at this point. No anger. No fear. I don't know. I do not hide the hurt and disappointment. I just felt it was time to let ladybug know that she no longer has control over me. That I am making decisions now that are only for my benifit. That she thinks I have let her go. I have waited to do this for a little while. I also debate if I could ever forgive her for everything she has done. Fog or no fog its hard to think of your wife living with another man. And all that goes along with that. That I know you understand very well.
I also did this to help speed her along to rock bottom.
I still want to bust the affair. But I am starting to think she is not of a strong enough character to want to improve herself and admit her mistakes.
Do I still love ladybug? Yes I do. I will not hide that from myself. The song Michelle by the beatles expresses how I feel about her. It will fade with time. But I still love her very much. When I think of her in passing thought. Its not with disgust.
Perhaps I am starting to think ladybug is not worth the sacrifice and effort.
As I have said. I am still process all this.
Next step is to see how I am in the same room as her.
I dropped the rope to ladybug. Not myself. I am still pondering those thoughts.
I only got a "B-" in DB catechism class, but I'm unaware that there's any distinction. "Dropping the Rope" -- like GALing -- is done for ONESELF, not for the wayward/walkaway spouse, and it must be GENUINE.
If you haven't dropped it yourself, then I would submit that you haven't dropped it.
And this:
No anger. No fear. I don't know. I do not hide the hurt and disappointment. I just felt it was time to let ladybug know that she no longer has control over me.
I'm quite sure that that's your INTENTION, and your PERCEPTION of your situation. But sometimes (usually? always???) we are too close to our own sitches to see clearly. I am only pointing out what jumped out at me -- some of your posts seethe with anger, just below their surface.
Dunno. Maybe I'm the only one. But I'm guessing that your wife probably senses the same thing (I'm just a DAM, and really not all that intuitive).
Also, it's kind of a "methinks thou doth protest too greatly" thing. If one says, over and over, "YOU DON'T CONTROL ME . . . YOU DON'T CONTROL ME . . .I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU, YOU DON'T CONTROL ME . . .", then they kinda still control you, kwim??
Puppy
I dropped the rope to ladybug. Not myself. I am still pondering those thoughts.
I only got a "B-" in DB catechism class, but I'm unaware that there's any distinction. "Dropping the Rope" -- like GALing -- is done for ONESELF, not for the wayward/walkaway spouse, and it must be GENUINE.
If you haven't dropped it yourself, then I would submit that you haven't dropped it.
[b][/b]
And this:
No anger. No fear. I don't know. I do not hide the hurt and disappointment. I just felt it was time to let ladybug know that she no longer has control over me.
I'm quite sure that that's your INTENTION, and your PERCEPTION of your situation. But sometimes (usually? always???) we are too close to our own sitches to see clearly. I am only pointing out what jumped out at me -- some of your posts seethe with anger, just below their surface.
Dunno. Maybe I'm the only one. But I'm guessing that your wife probably senses the same thing (I'm just a DAM, and really not all that intuitive).
Also, it's kind of a "methinks thou doth protest too greatly" thing. If one says, over and over, "YOU DON'T CONTROL ME . . . YOU DON'T CONTROL ME . . .I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU, YOU DON'T CONTROL ME . . .", then they kinda still control you, kwim??
Puppy
Thanks Puppy. I think your right. I think I may have got caught up here in everything from the xmas break. I do feel something has changed. I am just beginning to process those thoughts. It is good to get your point of view on it. And I agree with you when you say. Too close to our own stitch to see clearly.
I do hope there is not anger all over this. I do not feel it. But I will watch myself and I hope my DB friends will keep an eye on me. I have never been an angry person. So its an emotion that I do not fully understand.
I do hope there is not anger all over this. I do not feel it. But I will watch myself and I hope my DB friends will keep an eye on me. I have never been an angry person. So its an emotion that I do not fully understand.
Cutter, let me reiterate: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING ANGRY, EVEN AT THIS POINT. It's healthy. We all process our sitches, and our pain, at different speeds, and there is no "right" speed.
I'm just trying to encourage you not to make major decisions yet at this stage, and also trying to give you my outside perspective maybe on just what stage you ARE at, so that you can proceed accordingly.
Others who have followed your sitch more closely may disagree.
Puppy
Wow, cutter. I'm so sorry I missed all these posts as I wallowed in newcomers.
You have made such a journey thru the holidays and now this big convo with ladybug. Take time to think, reflect, process. Not that you haven't spent 7 lousy months doing that--- but you are making major strides here. Indifference equals detachment, I think.
I'm so glad that you made such progress so fast. It does suck to spend so
much time thinking about the sitch. I am so looking to find anything else to think about. The Mets, the weather, price of coal...anything.
I will keep checking on your thread here.
Hey, Cutter!!!
I understand the ups and downs, etc... but, you're way too cool to play the brooding dude w/an accent role.
How about a FUN CD???
Thanks Puppy. I think your right. I think I may have got caught up here in everything from the xmas break. I do feel something has changed. I am just beginning to process those thoughts.
I find that when I think something has changed I see it as a cog - it's just clicked round one more 'spoke'. Nothing has actually changed - I still feel the feelings I have etc. - but I feel one step closer to whatever the final outcome for me is.
I don't really process my thoughts anymore since I discovered the 'cog'. I just let them come to me when the mind has worked it out. Processing them takes way too much emotional time up!
I do hope there is not anger all over this. I do not feel it. But I will watch myself and I hope my DB friends will keep an eye on me. I have never been an angry person. So its an emotion that I do not fully understand.
Cutter, I have to be honest, I do see emotion over this. But I see it more as resentment than anger. That is natural too (I still have it - do we ever lose it?).
P. I have the resentment still. Only forgiveness to her will resolve that. Or it just fades away.
Betrayal + unrepentanting = resentment
Honesty + repenting + Transparent + owning your own [censored] = forgiveness
resentment /(resentment * time) = acceptance
Which one wins?
Forgiveness or acceptance
Both are time based.
If you break the D then you have a chance for both.
Most likely it will be one or the other.
Well lucky we can forgive ourselves.
Betrayal + unrepentanting = resentment
You know that she won't repent until the A is over though so that equation isn't relevant just now.
Honesty + repenting + Transparent + owning your own [censored] = forgiveness
Once the A is over again.
resentment /(resentment * time) = acceptance
Which one wins?
At the moment only the last one is valid because the A is ongoing.
Forgiveness or acceptance
IMO, you can't have forgiveness until you have acceptance. You can't forgive something you can't accept ...
Well lucky we can forgive ourselves.
We've had a lot of time and soul searching though. They haven't.
Hey, Cutter!!!
I understand the ups and downs, etc... but, you're way too cool to play the brooding dude w/an accent role.
How about a FUN CD???
Deal.
I will talk to you on the alt... and send you a copy
Cutter, what a revenge CD? nooo--only joking (kind of) but I would be interested in seeing song list for the happy CD!
and although I agree with PDT about not making decisions out of anger, I agree with P17 that it hasn't seemed like you've done that over the last couple of months. oh--except possibly anger motivated you to go NC in the beginning???
Newmama -
I think our first song on there should be that Cupid Shuffle song! My kids play it non-stop, and it's making me so insane... I'm singing it all the time!
LOL Mindfull! I like the idea of annoying songs being on the revenge CD--I was only thinking of songs like "You Oughta Know!"
Alanis!!! Yea, that would certainly echo through the ol' noggin' after awhile...
This is good... I think we need some others to add to this mix...
Well I know the last song.
Its the end of the world as we know it - R.E.M.
Cutter, what a revenge CD? nooo--only joking (kind of) but I would be interested in seeing song list for the happy CD!
and although I agree with PDT about not making decisions out of anger, I agree with P17 that it hasn't seemed like you've done that over the last couple of months. oh--except possibly anger motivated you to go NC in the beginning???
I went NC in the beginning because I had to check my emotions. And force her to get all her EN's from the OM. I needed time and space to start healing. Limbo with her in the house was killing me. Plan A until they rub it in your face...
Revenge CD ... Hehe I think I could make a fun one.
Ah, yes living limbo under the same roof is very very difficult! NC was the right thing to do in order to "check" your emotions!
Now are you going to pack up any of her stuff for her? Will you be at the house when she gets it?
REM End of the World as we know it...and I feel fine!
All American Rejects..." Gives you Hell":
I wake up every evening, with a big smile on my face
And it never feels out of place
And you're still probably working at a 9 to 5 pase
I wonder how bad that tastes
When you see my face hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When you walk my way hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
Now where's your picket fence love
And where's that shiny car,
And did it ever get you far
You’ve never seem so tense love
I’ve never seen you fall so hard,
Do you know where you are
And truth be told I miss you
And truth be told I’m lying
When you see my face hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When you walk my way hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
If you find a man that’s worth a damn and treats you well
Then he’s a fool, you're just as well, hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
Tomorrow you’ll be thinking to yourself
Where’d it all go wrong, the list goes on and on
And truth be told I miss you
And truth be told I’m lying
When you see my face hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When you walk my way hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
If you find a man that’s worth a damn and treats you well
Then he’s a fool, you're just as well, hope it gives you hell
Now you’ll never see, what you’ve done to me
You can take back your memories there no good to me
And here’s all your lies,
You can look me in my eyes
With that sad sad look that you wear so well
When you see my face hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When you walk my way hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
If you find a man that’s worth a damn and treats you well
Then he’s a fool, your just as well, hope it gives you hell
When you see my face hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When you walk my way hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When hear this song and you sing along oh you’ll never tell
Then you’re the fool, I’m just as well
Hope it gives you hell
When you hear this song I hope that it will give you hell
You can sing along I hope that it will treat you well
And truth be told I miss you
And truth be told I’m lying
hehe
newmama...
You made my day.... Funny video as well
Yes she comes over on the 24th. I will be here. That day we sign the seperation papers. That day I will be legally seperated.
As per our email conversation. Which I will post for yea
From cutter to Ladybug Sent on Thursday night as per conversation agreement that seperation paper will be sent out by friday.
Paper and Visit to home.
Ladybug here is a copy of the seperation paper.
Only additions I added where the date to put the house on the market and I also clarified our RRSP amounts. As it looked like you were not getting any. So I fixed that up. Other than that I have not changed anything.
Other items.
January 23rd. Could we move this to the 24th or the following weekend. I wish to be here when you are here. That way we can iron out any differences quickly on items being moved out. I will also allow us to see each other once before the Jack and Jill and the wedding. Which should take some stress off and allow us to enjoy both these wonderful evenings.
Also I cannot find the shark anywhere. If you have it, can I borrow it to clean the floors with? You can bring it with you. If you do not have it, then I have no clue where it is.
Take Care
Cutter
((( SHARK IS A FLOOR CLEANING DEVICE )))
Reply next day
Thanks Cutter. The 24th is fine, and I think it's a good idea that we're both there. Let me know, and I'll arrange for my Dad to come later so we can have time on our own to disucss things.
I'll bring my signed copy of the agreement with me then, if that's OK with you.
I'll talk to you before then.
Ladybug
So 2 weeks and I am legally seperated. I am making sure it is backdated to the day ladybug left the house. Sept 15th. I do wonder what she is looking like. As I have not seen her since then. It will be good to get this over and done as well.
Going forward. 2 More times seeing her after that. Then its just funerals and the odd wedding.
Cutter, wow you surprised me when you communicated with ladybug about meeting but I suppose that it makes sense. I am nervous for you for some reason. (not bad...just butterflies!)
But why is her dad coming later?
And what about the shark??? LOL!
All American Rejects..." Gives you Hell":
When you see my face hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
When you walk my way hope it gives you hell
Hope it gives you hell
Everytime I hear this song I think of OW! Makes me smile....
So 2 weeks and I am legally seperated. I am making sure it is backdated to the day ladybug left the house. Sept 15th. I do wonder what she is looking like. As I have not seen her since then. It will be good to get this over and done as well.
Going forward. 2 More times seeing her after that. Then its just funerals and the odd wedding.
You sound like you are doing ok...You sure are strong! I am sure you will handle yourself with the confidence and strength you have gained from this.
I'll talk to you before then.
Ladybug
This is the only thing that worries me. My question is ... WHY?
Who knows P.... I am not worried.
Perhaps it was just how the brain wrote it out.
Cutter, wow you surprised me when you communicated with ladybug about meeting but I suppose that it makes sense. I am nervous for you for some reason. (not bad...just butterflies!)
But why is her dad coming later?
And what about the shark??? LOL!
I want to thank you newmama. I am nervous as well. But the 180 after the phone call is to take control. So here I am.
I think that after she leaves on the 24th I will be in tears. But I will be in control that day. For it is the day she really gives up her marriage to me. And I will show enough love to her that she knows she still has this choice. But I will word it in such a way that it is not chasing. For I do understand not to chase.
And after that day. My marriage is over.
I will still work towards April. But unlike many here. I will not waste the time on ladybug. I will move forward. I talked to Gnosis about the signing today. And I just could not come up with the conversation around it. We spent 10 minutes on it. And that was that.
G had the thought of the following and i adjusted it after my evening out
ladybug you know when you sign this our marriage is over. I am no longer your husband. I am no longer your friend. From this day on I will only be civil. No more.
Something like this.
I am not looking forward to the day. But it is only a piece of paper. And after this day i am single. And I have the chance to have a family. I am so conflicted inside. I love ladybug so much still. But I can move on. And have a family.
I lean towards moving on. But I must still hold my vows... Until the end. Its damn hard.
I do not think those who have not had children understand that sacrifice. And it is a bitter sacrifice when it falls apart. One feels that they wasted those years and they know that they did not. Its very conflicting.
I do not think those who have not had children understand that sacrifice. And it is a bitter sacrifice when it falls apart. One feels that they wasted those years and they know that they did not. Its very conflicting.
Cutter, I know I reluctantly made some comment about it being easier to go NC without kids or to be able to start anew or something like that. I do not think that it will be easy by any means! All of those years together, the investment, the memories, the fun, the sad, and all of that time spent with one person.... it will be very difficult. I wish I didn't make that comment. It was wrong.
Now, as for the separation, for me, it would still feel like the marriage wasn't completely over because it's not D. Not that I am saying for you to hang on, but I think back to March when WH and I were originally going for D. Due to insurance reasons, we switched to Separation. I must say that it seemed to offer me some comfort that our marriage was not dissolved; just put on hold. Now we never signed anything legal but it is still a separation. So how do you see it? Separation versus divorce? Does anything I said make sense to you?
Do you wish to hash out more ideas for what to say to her when you sign the separation papers? I just don't want you to have expectations that she will say "you're right...let's not do this" on that day.
This is hard because do you want her to know that maybe in the future you would be willing to reconcile but just not now? But then she might think you will still be "waiting" for her. Maybe sometime in August, before September when she or you could file for D, you could check in with her.Sorry, I don't know your plans and maybe you don't know either. Sorry to ramble, Cutter! This is very difficult for sure.
I am not looking forward to the day. But it is only a piece of paper. And after this day i am single. And I have the chance to have a family. I am so conflicted inside. I love ladybug so much still. But I can move on. And have a family.
Cutter, I have absolutely NO wisdom for you, but this just made me cry. You are a really good man. I think there will be a lot of us willing to hold your hand and cry w/you. HUGS
Sterophonics - Maybe Tomorrow I've been down and
I'm wondering why
These little black clouds
Keep walking around
With me
With me
It wastes time
And I'd rather be high
Think I'll walk me outside
And buy a rainbow smile
But be free
They're all free
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
I look around at a beautiful life
Been the upperside of down
Been the inside of out
But we breathe
We breathe
I wanna breeze and an open mind
I wanna swim in the ocean
Wanna take my time for me
All me
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
So maybe tomorrow
I'll find my way home
You ladies are great.
I know I sound all down. But I am not all doom and gloom. A little tired from a busy weekend. GAL is killing me.... Not used to these late nights.
Newmama. You never said anything wrong. Not once. So you have nothing to be sorry for.
Where I live you only need the Divorce if you want to get married. You can be seperated and live the rest of your lifes like that. Being seperated allows you to live common inlaw with a future partner. Which is basically the same.
The only way I would file for D is if I was going to get married again. And then I would ask for ladybug to pay half of it. Or just serve her.
We can talk more about that day later next week.
I do plan on signing those papers that day. As I want to make sure I am finacially protected for when her Affair ends and her work enviroment falls apart. When I think about that day. I think being silent will say more than any word can. I will let her fully look into my eyes before and afterwards. If I shed some tears I will not hide them. For I am not ashamed to show my emotions now. I am not afraid of myself. I do not hide from myself. I also think that as my wife she is allowed to fully see the consequences of her actions and how deeply she hurt me.
Then it will be back to db rules.
No R talk. And I will not talk about my life to her. I only share my experiences with people who I respect and they respect me.
Her actions speak louder than any words. I will also be mentally armed against crocadile tears and any crumbs. I will also remove myself from any arguements. I fully understand that the game is still being played.
The sea will be calm. I am still the lighthouse.
When I think about that day. I think being silent will say more than any word can. I will let her fully look into my eyes before and afterwards. If I shed some tears I will not hide them. For I am not ashamed to show my emotions now. I am not afraid of myself. I do not hide from myself. I also think that as my wife she is allowed to fully see the consequences of her actions and how deeply she hurt me.
Actually, this makes me teary eyed but it is an example of how your actions will speak louder than words! If she sees you crying, she can wonder if it means you don't want to end your marriage. And wondering is enough if later one day she wants to seek you out, IF you are available.
Wow. Separation in your part of the world means the same as divorce. I had no clue this whole time. Excuse me for saying this, but WHAT A FOOLISH WOMAN Ladybug is being for giving you up! Wow. I don't want to slam her too harshly because I don't want you to be offended. I do love how you know this:
I want to make sure I am finacially protected for when her Affair ends and her work enviroment falls apart.
Yes, the A WILL end!
By the way, what is going on with the female friend you are helping to learn boundaries?
Cutter, I don't apologise for this email. I heard a few things about W today that quite frankly just p*ssed me off. So I'm not in the best of moods. However I have been thinking about your thread for a few days now and wanted to respond. It's not a 2x4 more just a WTF.
I want to thank you newmama. I am nervous as well. But the 180 after the phone call is to take control. So here I am.
I think that after she leaves on the 24th I will be in tears. But I will be in control that day. For it is the day she really gives up her marriage to me.
Stop. No it's not. The day she gives up on the marriage is the day you and she D. A separation is not a D, yet. If it's the same as here (and from what I have read it is) it's a financial separation - a D in every word, except the court stamp. However a separation is easy. A D isn't.
Can I ask if you are a safe place to land, Cutter?
What choices does Ladybug have (and I mean REAL WORLD choices not choices of the heart we get in the films)?
Have you made it known to her that you would still consider reconciliation? If you are not considering that now, is this the real and final decision NOT to reconcile?
And I will show enough love to her that she knows she still has this choice. But I will word it in such a way that it is not chasing. For I do understand not to chase.
How are you going to do this though? How do you propose to shown somebody love when you are signing away your life together (which is what you consider it to be doing)?
And after that day. My marriage is over.
No it's not Cutter. Come on now, get a grip.
ladybug you know when you sign this our marriage is over. I am no longer your husband. I am no longer your friend. From this day on I will only be civil. No more.
I still don't like the marriage is over bit to be honest.
I lean towards moving on. But I must still hold my vows... Until the end. Its damn hard.
I don't understand. If you're single, your marriage is over and you want to move on ... what vows are you holding onto?
I do not think those who have not had children understand that sacrifice. And it is a bitter sacrifice when it falls apart. One feels that they wasted those years and they know that they did not. Its very conflicting.
This I can relate to very much.
I have a D from a previous R but not with W.
W always wanted to have kids and I knew that from the start. To cut a very long story short, the reason we didn't have them was 90% my fault. I hold my hand up. Only when W stood up and basically said 'we're doing this' did we start to try. One of the few moments she stood up for what she believed. And it was nice.
However, I feel like, at 37, time is ticking away for me to have another child (another little girl if anybody is listening - although a boy would be fine :)). I have to find a new relationship, build it up, get married (as I still believe in marriage) and have the child with all that entails. I'm looking at 40+ before that happens and that's assuming I find somebody quickly. Here, it's unlikely that will happen so I'm looking at moving or maybe another few years.
I feel as though I left it too long. I have wasted 7 years of my life. I could have had a family that I always really wanted.
But Cutter, you can't think like this. Sh*t happens. You are a better man for it and you will be a better dad for it because you know now how important family is to you. You understand that now. I feel like before I took it for granted as it was there and W and I were going to have a family - when something is on a plate in front of you there isn't too much of a struggle to grab it. Only when it's taken away from you and you realise that what you wanted all along was in front of you do you fight for it.
I hope you take this message in the manner it's meant - somebody who doesn't want you to give up but also wants you to do what you feel is the right thing for you. Either way, I'll support you. But I needed to say this.
Excuse me for saying this, but WHAT A FOOLISH WOMAN Ladybug is being for giving you up!
You know I've read a lot of sitches on here and walked through a lot of threads. I haven't yet come across one, from somebody who has been here for a while, that I don't think 'if only your spouse could see you now'.
Most WAS's are foolish. If you want to look at it another way maybe this is being done to us, by whatever otherworldy power you believe in (even fate or karma), to make us better people. All those threads I have read are from better people at the end than when they started.
I've said many times before, but this forum is a godsend.
I hope you take this message in the manner it's meant - somebody who doesn't want you to give up but also wants you to do what you feel is the right thing for you. Either way, I'll support you. But I needed to say this.
Cutter, I agree with most of this, fwiw. Especially this:
I don't understand. If you're single, your marriage is over and you want to move on ... what vows are you holding onto?
You're not giving her -- or yourself -- an "out." If that's the way you want it, that's your right, but then this should be a D, and not an S.
Unless I've missed something, which is ENTIRELY possible.
Puppy
I know I sound all down. But I am not all doom and gloom. A little tired from a busy weekend. GAL is killing me.... Not used to these late nights.
I do plan on signing those papers that day. As I want to make sure I am finacially protected for when her Affair ends and her work enviroment falls apart. When I think about that day. I think being silent will say more than any word can. I will let her fully look into my eyes before and afterwards. If I shed some tears I will not hide them. For I am not ashamed to show my emotions now. I am not afraid of myself. I do not hide from myself. I also think that as my wife she is allowed to fully see the consequences of her actions and how deeply she hurt me.
Then it will be back to db rules.
No R talk. And I will not talk about my life to her. I only share my experiences with people who I respect and they respect me.
Her actions speak louder than any words. I will also be mentally armed against crocadile tears and any crumbs. I will also remove myself from any arguements. I fully understand that the game is still being played.
The sea will be calm. I am still the lighthouse.
Hey P , I guess you missed this one
Hey P , I guess you missed this one
Nope
I just thought your new post contradicted that one.
This one seems to be more in keeping with how I see you. Strong, confident and business like with a view to his M and a mindset of R (that sounds very girly ... I don't fancy you :))
The last post you made was much more 'I'm done with this'. I was / am confused (which, is nothing new to be honest)!
NO. That one was the next day. After the song. So the one you quoted was a day earlier... 3Am...
Need to put PUI ( Thanks GNU )
Posted Under Influence ( 3 beers and a glass of wine )
Stop messing with my brain
NO. That one was the next day. After the song. So the one you quoted was a day earlier... 3Am...
Need to put PUI ( Thanks GNU )
Posted Under Influence ( 3 beers and a glass of wine )
Stop messing with my brain
Ahhh ... that was the one I must have had in my head then and thinking about. Apologies.
There is so much to keep track of!
Hey P here is a good LBS Song
I was listening to this album tonight. BRMC's Howl. Its a great album. Top 10 for me in the last 10 years. I love music. I love how lyrics jump out when you emotions are working 100%. I just love music. Sorry P.... I am humming along today. Good spirits. Feel alive today. Yea had some sleep last night... Today is up and up.... And you want to know something. I went a few hours not thinking about all this.... A few hours....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG1c6em62fg ( studio )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdgswSjYhMw ( live )
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club - Howl
You try so hard to be cold
You try so hard to not show
I give you nothing to doubt, and you doubt me
I give you all that I have, but you don't see
Now I know that my eyes must close here
Every word seems to feel like you don't care
But I know that you're so confused and afraid
I just want to be one true thing that don't fade
I don't wanna give up tomorrow
I just can't understand why we're going on
You try so hard to be heard
You try so hard to not hurt
I give you nothing to doubt, and you doubt me
I give you all that I have, but you don't see
Now I know that my eyes must close here
Every word seems to feel like you don't care
But I know that you're so confused and afraid
I just want to be one true thing that don't fade
I don't wanna give up tomorrow
I just can't understand why we're going on
I don't wanna be sad, I don't wanna be scared
I won't wait for you in silence
I see the road is long
NO. That one was the next day. After the song. So the one you quoted was a day earlier... 3Am...
Need to put PUI ( Thanks GNU )
Posted Under Influence ( 3 beers and a glass of wine )
Stop messing with my brain
Ahhh ... that was the one I must have had in my head then and thinking about. Apologies.
There is so much to keep track of!
This parallel path can be difficult at times. Either way I move forward. I hope you are as well.
(((Cutter)))
Your words, make me misty.
You are such a good man and have come so far - I wish the same for you that I wish for everyone else - Peace...
The sea will be calm. I am still the lighthouse.
You are now the captain of your own ship, so to speak, and not just the drowning passenger trapped on the ship in a storm-tossed sea.
You know where to find me if you need to let some of that emotion out...Many hugs and prayers for you...
Cutter,
PUI - LoL
Just a warning would be enough! In case you're the type that gets all lovey, and LOVES everyone... (Guess who THAT is?! LoL)
(((Mind)))
I know you are not speaking of me when you state...
In case you're the type that gets all lovey, and LOVES everyone... (Guess who THAT is?! LoL)
That is supposed to be a secret - I have a rep to uphold
Serenity ! Hahaha God! Are you kiddin'? I'm the biggest MUSH! I bet you hide it well.
Mind...
LMAO -
Have you ever read a post of mine?
I can't hide jack - I am an open book and I wish I could be a little more reserved however it isn't normally in my nature...
I am coming out of the shell I have been hiding in for years...
Trying to find my way back to the woman I used to be without hurting anyone in the process.
Cutter,
PUI - LoL
Just a warning would be enough! In case you're the type that gets all lovey, and LOVES everyone... (Guess who THAT is?! LoL)
Yep worst Irish drunk ever. Get all lovey and loves everyone. Not a fighting bone in my body....
Better that way. No black eyes or broken bones
I am going to say that ever since that phone call with ladybug last week something has changed in me.
I cannot put my finger quite on it yet... But I have caught myself smiling. I have caught myself wistling. Some days I feel for 10 or 15 minutes that I have clarity. Once in awhile I feel like me and not like cutter. I have even heard the dreaded words. "Your in a good mood." And its for no reason. Like I am a normal human being.
Maybe I am becoming normal again. I still see life as before the bomb and after the bomb.
I think I even went one hour without thinking about it. Think...
Maybe I am starting to come out of my depression. Which I have been in for quite awhile... I do not know... Perhaps I am starting to wake up.
P.S. this is me journaling....
Tumbleweeds to our little section...
Cutter, maybe just being near to some kind of closure is healing to you. Like P, I don't think of it as THE END just yet, but signing the papers is at least setting a boundary of sorts...
newmama. No matter what happens. I am so glad I met you. I think were going to work towards a life long friendship. But if we do not . Thank you very much for being a friend.
As for ladybug.
Thats OK
Anyways..... I just want to say thanks. It has been a very long journey to get to this point.
Thank you
Awww Cutter! Thank YOU! I would love to stay friends with you! You big Giver, you! Oh wait...was that a PUI?
Not from me--sead dober here!
PUI ALERT-I knew Newmama would love this!
You ladies rock
My PUI is a smoootie right now
I just read a great quote.
The oppositie of love is not hate; it's indifference
Cutter,
Thanks for asking Serenity to stop by my thread. Appreciate the help.
{{hugs}}
{{hugs}} back girl.
You have had a few hard days... months...
Cutter. What's happenin'? Is it dinner and movie night tonight?
no tomorrow night is dinner and movie night. Picked up the salmon today. So dinner is all ready to be cooked. And I have one gift for each of my guests. Home made cd's
Tonight is eat pizza , tidy up and watch the rest of the transformers movie night...
great GAL plans Cutter! Have a fantastic weekend!
Yep Cutter has two beautiful women coming over...
Then sunday Cutter is taking some of the kids he coaches out for their birthday. There will be cake eating that day let me tell you.
All in all a good weekend coming up..
Need to do some cleaning as well.
And just built up my new htpc... So gotta intall all the codec's
There will be cake eating that day let me tell you.
Tonights song. From one of greatest bands of all time Porcupine Tree
Porcupine Tree - Pure Narcotic You keep me waiting You keep me alone in a room full of friends You keep me hating You keep me listening to the Bends
No amount of pointless days Can make this go away
You have me on my knees You have me listless and deranged You have me in your pocket You have me distant and estranged
No narcotics in my brain Can make this go away
I'm sorry that, I'm sorry that I'm not like you I worry that I don't act the way you'd like me to
You find me wanting You find me bloodless but inspired You find me out You find me hallucinating fire
No narcotics in my brain Can make this go away
Have we ever been here before? Running headlong at the floor Leave me dreaming on a railway track Wrap me up and send me back
What will you serve with the salmon?? And are the ladies bringing their spouses?
Tonights song. From one of greatest bands of all time Porcupine Tree
Good song. Will need to look out some of there other stuff.
I still can't get away from this, and note it has to be played LOUD,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vxbMh8QMQ8&feature=related (lyrics which I'm sure I posted before -
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/foofighters/letitdie.html)- brings a lump to my throat every single time I hear it - without trying to solicit sympthy the tears are streaming down my face just now. As I love this album, and Foo Fighters, I've had lots of lumpy throats! The end part expresses how I exactly feel as I still don't get all of this - but then I have learned to accept it without answers.
See first comment on this page from MadameButterfly91:
Its not about Kurt Cobain. s about those ppl you see that you cant help and why they r doing what they r doing to themselves. Grohl said it himself that about ppl u lose, friends family may it be physically, emotionally.
Sums it up for me. We all have 'couples songs' that meant a lot to 'us'. This is my 'single song' that means a lot to 'me'.
What will you serve with the salmon?? And are the ladies bringing their spouses?
Nope. Two single ladies
asparagus
and a potato dish done in the oven with onions and fresh veggies.
LD is bringing baked goods and LR is bringing a nice fresh salad.
The movies...Pans Labrath, August Rush and Bedtime Stories.
Should be a nice evening.
and a potato dish done in the oven with onions and fresh veggies
Please share this recipe--I am always looking for good side dishes!
And as for the movies--are you watching all 3? If not, definitely see August Rush for sure!
Can't wait to hear how it went!
Nope. Two single ladies
Cutter, you old dog!
Good luck with tonight!
I am also off out tonight with a lady ... purely platonic of course! A night of food, drink and maybe a little dancing. We shall see if she can keep up with me. I am not as old as I used to be
(sorry for hijacking thread above!!!)
well change of plans. One of them is now sick. So rescheduled for Wed.
They both needed to come at the same time? I hope the salmon lasts but I guess you could eat it without them!
well the other one felt uncomfortable coming over by herslef. I fully understand. As we do not know each other that well.
damn. In from a night of adjusted gal.... and all i can say is ... damn i miss ladybug.... Tonight it just hit home the dumb a55 she did.
Well off to sleep.....
What did you end up doing?
went and hung out with the usual gang I hang out with. Dinner out. Worst service ever. Good food. Then watched a movie and had a few pops
Hey Cutter--
Yeah, you want to hear about a bad night of GAL?
Went to go see AVATAR with that nice guy that I connected with through Match.com. You know, the one I was all stressed about "dating."
I have been honest with him about my emotional state, and he seems cool just having company.
Anyhow, AVATAR was sold out, so we BADLY chose UP IN THE AIR, which is about love, and affairs, and making connections, and breaking up and everything! It was horrible! And he felt horrible, too, for me suffering through this.
Next time I will realize--duh--we could have walked out.
Anyhow, when it was over I marched us straight to the bar. With two margaritas in me, we were able to laugh about it, chat in general, and in general have a good time.
I gave him a hug and a thank you when we left.
Driving home I just felt sort of numb. Didn't cry. Didn't really want to cry.
But not the fun night I had expected!
Hi again, CB-
I just set up Avermont on the alt.
You are set up such I can't friend request or send a message.
But I'm there, now.
It's great you can go to "the usual gang!" I have one too!
But bad service is painful...at least the food was good!
Does the gang know about your plans with your lady friends on Wednesday?
Hi newmama. Of course they did. They are my friends. I told them about the cancel and the reschedule.
How the whole evening went was like this.
Cutter calls one friend and says. Lookit dinner and movie night got cancelled. So I am not making dinner for myself. Wanna go grab a pint and a bite to eat.
Friend ok. Lets see who else wants to join in. And afterwards wanna come back to my house watch a war movie and some hockey.
Me. sounds good what time you swinging by to pick me up...
And away we go...
That night I even crossed some of my goals into their lives. I now have 3 running friends for a race in March
It will be their first and my second. We went on line and signed them up that night as well.
New stronger and confident Cutter at work here. And I am pushing this positivness on my friends.
Heard a funny quote from a couple.
"Cutter sorry about your wife's actions. But a good thing that came out of it is that your out more now. And we like hanging out with ya. You're very upbeat."
I felt very humbled by that.
New stronger and confident Cutter at work here. And I am pushing this positivness on my friends.
Heard a funny quote from a couple.
"Cutter sorry about your wife's actions. But a good thing that came out of it is that your out more now. And we like hanging out with ya. You're very upbeat."
I felt very humbled by that.
Cutter that is so great!
Wow, Cutter, that is so great to hear from your friends!
Sounds like the "DB for yourself" thing at work here.
Good on ya!
I scored a goal in hockey tonight. That means. Until I step on the ice next week. Nothing phazes me. Its a good week
Hey, there you go! That's PMA!
ah shucks ladies I am blushing from all the happy thoughts.
Had a great conversation with DbD last night about inukshuks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inukshukhttp://www.inukshukgallery.com/inukshuk.htmlPerhaps we should all build one. A group GAL. Plus if you have some young ones they could join in as well.
Tonight is ladies night at Cutter's place! Woo hoo- have fun and share lots of details!!!!
Opps... Was out looking at houses and ended up eating out at a Thai place. So no movie night.
Tonights song.
Which I just realized is about adultry. Yea I knew the story... But now I know the story... Damn. I love this song... Now I see it differently. Still love it though.
I cannot remember who I was talking too. But I see it everywhere now.... Damn curse...
The reference is to Tristan and Isolde. One of the oldest affair stories on record.
Wraith Pinned To The Mist & Other Games-Of Montreal
Wraith Pinned To The Mist & Other Games-Of Montreal Let's have bizarre celebrations
Let's forget who forget what forget where
We'll have bizarre celebrations
I'll play the satyr in Cyprus
You the bride being stripped bare
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's have bizarre celebrations
Let's forget when forget what forget how
We'll have bizarre celebrations
We''l play Tristan and Isolde
But make sure I see white sails, sails
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Maybe I'll never die
I'll just keep growing younger with you
And you'll grow younger too
Now it seems too lovely to be true
But I know the best things always do
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
Let's pretend we don't exist
Let's pretend we're in Antarctica
I don't understand--I thought your plans with the 2 ladies was for tonight?
Taking a break. Have good weekends everyone.
Cutter, I will be sending you strength for Sunday. (((hugs to you)))
Cutterbug--I will be thinking of you on Sunday!
You will look, feel, and be fantastic.
You will have fun.
You will come back and post how well you handled the sitch.
Hugs hugs
well that did not go according to plan what so ever.
Phone call on Thursday night about coming over on sunday at 9am.
I emailed back on Saturday morning that she should come over at 11am
Went out for my run and when i got back at 11am. She was here with her dad, mom , brother and brother inlaw. All her furnature and some stuff packed up. ( except for the wedding dress , xmas decorations and stuff in the garage ) I looked at her and said nothing then walked past BIL's and said hi.
So I went into the house. And made some coffee and had a nice glass of water.
She came in and then I said hello.
Seeing her for the first time in months. I could not believe that I was married to her. She would not look me in the eyes. Kept looking around.
Conversation was about if she took something that she should not have to let me know. Where was I. Why did I not call and let her know I was not into 11.
I was calm and cool and stated I replied back in email. 11am.
She asked for tax stuff and then went at me about how I am doing petty things today , like leaving the car parked in the middle of the drive way, not being there, taking too long to reply to her when I freely tell everyone else what I am doing. I told her I was not being petty and that I am not going to argue. That I replied back in a timely manor in email. I asked if we were going to sign the papers today which she replied that she has no time now to do and that she waited 30 minutes for me. I looked her in the face the whole time. She just would not look at me. Maybe once in awhile for a second. But she would look down or just away. I just stayed calm. So I asked when could we sign them. And she said. You tell me. Let me know when your free. So I said how about one day this week , Busy. Ok how about one day on the weekend or next week. To which she replied how about a neutral place. Friday. So I said I would have to check my schedule for Friday night. Then she went at me again about being inconsiderate. ( Each time she said inconsiderate she would mention that it pales in comparison or something else )
No swagger there anymore in ladybug. I think we are at two different levels now. She left as the cake eating queen and I a broken man. Now I am no longer not so broken. And she is... well I cannot put my finger on it. Gnu my friend feels it is shame. I an not 100% sure I agree with him but perhaps. I may never know. I am at peace with that.
So I said I would get intouch one day this week with a time.
And I plesently said Take Care Ladybug.
And she just left.
And I watched her text away in the car for 5 minutes and then she was gone.
All that build up this week for that.
Wippy doo da...
I cannot believe that she was the woman of my life for all those years.
Mind you I did that a few times to look into those beautiful eyes of hers when I had the chance. Just looked and smiled. And thought yep. They are as beautiful as I remember.
I did not get my goals done today. No signing of the papers, No dress gone.
I am disappointed in my self. That way. But very proud of myself that I can stand in the same room as her and just be myself. No fear. No anger. In control. Not being controlled. Ladybug no longer has any power over me.
Is there still love there. Yes.
Have I remained faithful. Yes.
Next steps.
Find out a day when we can meet up and get these papers signed. Perhaps Friday night.
Then I am going to think about my conversation with Gnu about the following paragraph.
"Are you sure you want to continue down this path that you have chosen. Because there is another option available. I am will to look towards reconsilation. Even though I know it will be a long and difficult journey to undertake.... But with both of us working towards this it can be done."
As we also said. It is very different doing this out of logical thinking and not out of fear and I need you. Doing this out of a decision to work on it.
So I will look at my goals this week and work towards them.
Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts.
Cutter, I'm sorry. Don't know what else to say.
I'm glad you handled it well though. I knew you would.
"Are you sure you want to continue down this path that you have chosen. Because there is another option available. I am will to look towards reconsilation. Even though I know it will be a long and difficult journey to undertake.... But with both of us working towards this it can be done."
What have you got to lose?
Cutter, whoa..WTF? She totally didn't do anything according to your plan! But good for you for keeping your cool and looking directly at her!
I think avoiding eye contact could have shown 1 or more of the following:
1)doesn't want you to see how she really feels (avoiding eyes is a form of lying)
2)doesn't want to cry
3)feels guilt and/or shame about what she's done to your marriage
4)feels regret/ uncertainty/doubt about what she is doing
Now I know you aren't into mind reading, but how about body language reading?
OK her comments about you being petty and taking too long to reply to her...my immediate response when reading that was "she was hurt!" meaning it hurt her feelings that you ignored her.
Hurt=cares about you still.
( Each time she said inconsiderate she would mention that it pales in comparison or something else )
Please explain what you meant here...did she literraly say "it pales in comparison" to what she did???
Now about this proposed email:
"Are you sure you want to continue down this path that you have chosen. Because there is another option available. I am will to look towards reconsilation. Even though I know it will be a long and difficult journey to undertake.... But with both of us working towards this it can be done."
I say clean it up a bit...the tone sounds a little too "high and mighty." You want to come across as desirable, not weak and needy but not arrogant and martyr like either. Maybe something like:
"Ladybug, when we last talked, you said that you thought I was being petty when I didn't communicate with you.Please understand that I was avoiding you not to be hurtful but to build a life for myself and was coming to terms with the fact that you want to legally separate. I am still undecided about whether to separate and would be open to talking about reconciliation.I can meet Friday at 5 at (a place you both used to go to???). Take care, Cutter"
It's a rough draft ....
p.s. get the opinion of those who have pieced their marriages back together!!!
Just to clarify...
Now about this proposed email:
"Are you sure you want to continue down this path that you have chosen. Because there is another option available. I am will to look towards reconsilation. Even though I know it will be a long and difficult journey to undertake.... But with both of us working towards this it can be done."
NM, that is NOT to be sent via email. This message is TOO important to be delegated to the written word. It is meant to be communicated face-to-face when they are sitting there about to sign the separation papers.
So far Ladybug is under the impression that Cutter has moved on with his life and wants nothing to do with her at all. These are what his actions have led her to believe. Those words will be communicated with Cutter's own tone of voice, body language and style. It is meant to be a final olive branch to her that there is another option available if she chooses it.
And um.. those words are mine, maybe I don't Gno what I'm doing... LOL... I'm more aggressive than Cutter is. But its a good place to start. And this is something that Cutter still needs to decide on and if he wants to do it.
So far Ladybug is under the impression that Cutter has moved on with his life and wants nothing to do with her at all.
Gnosis / Cutter,
As you guys know I'm also in NC and therefore my sitch is slightly similar to Cutters. I am very interested to know WHY you think Ladybug is under that impression - did she say or show so or is this guesswork?
I want to apply the info to my own sitch, hence my asking.
Cutter, I've said to you in the past and recently - give her an out. Let her know that she has a choice. The worst that can happen is that you stay in the same square you are in just now.
I am also VERY curious to know why she yet again didn't take her wedding dress?
Gnosis, it's good to see you over here. I wish more of the vets would come by every now and then and post on our threads. It's pretty lonely over here sometimes!
[quote=Gnosis]As you guys know I'm also in NC and therefore my sitch is slightly similar to Cutters.
No P17, your sitch is a heck of a lot more difficult than Cutters. Bare in mind that LadyBug has not seen or heard from Cutter in an extremely long time. All the information she has received about him is 3rd hand and is what C chooses to share to her "informants" therefore it is unverified -- and has communicated that he has moved on.
In your sitch you're practically living across the street and you're in a small town where gossip is rife. Your WAW has her confidential informants who can communicate more accurate information on your true status.
I am very interested to know WHY you think Ladybug is under that impression - did she say or show so or is this guesswork?
It is based on guesswork and her actions today as well as when Cutter and I spoke on the phone today.
Gnosis, it's good to see you over here. I wish more of the vets would come by every now and then and post on our threads. It's pretty lonely over here sometimes!
P17, I don't consider myself a vet in any way, means or form... I'm simply another guy with an opinion and who has a bit of an insight in girl-fu... who is also a pig-headed, stubborn, male-chauvinist SOB. Oops... did I say that?
P I think the solituede of this section is better for us. For it allows us to actually formulate our own plans. When we do post for advice or offer advice it is not lost in the noise of so many opinions of those who have not taken the time out to learn about us.
This is a blessing. For we get to make our own choices. Within our time frame. As we know now that the seconds and minutes are really weeks and months.
And everyonce in a while. We get a fellow db'er dropping in to shake things up for us. They offer an opinion or a different point of view.
And we are strong enough to stand on our feet. Read the opinion. And make our own decision based on our thoughts , experiences and suggestions.
And as Gucci said to me back in the day
As you get stronger. (and you are doing GREAT) you need to get to the point where you don't have to ask us what you should do, but you just do it because you know you are secure.
I am at this place. But I offer that I still listen to suggestions. And opinions from those who have walked this path. For failure to utilize this experience would be short sited on my behalf.
Anyways I am off to hockey now. So I am going to enjoy what remains of an interesting sunday.
Take Care.
Cutter.
I'm simply another guy with an opinion and who has a bit of an insight in girl-fu... who is also a pig-headed, stubborn, male-chauvinist SOB. Oops... did I say that?
I'm glad you said it. I've been thinking about pointing it out. Thanks!
Cutterbug, I was so glad to hear from you.
You handled it just beautifully. You haven't seen each other since September, and you kept your cool.
I'll try to wrap my brain around where you have gotten:
LB has no control over you. YOU have control over you.
I know the paper signing meeting will be tough. But you are operating from such a great place. Not fear, but what is good for you, and your heart.
I hope you scored a lot of goals on the ice!
I'm simply another guy with an opinion and who has a bit of an insight in girl-fu... who is also a pig-headed, stubborn, male-chauvinist SOB. Oops... did I say that?
I'm glad you said it. I've been thinking about pointing it out. Thanks!
You're welcome. I prefer to keep my personal opinions about other posters to myself.
OH, I did not realize Cutter was going to be saying that in person! And did not realize that one of his mentors advised him- sorry Gnosis, I respectfully withdraw my criticism.
Cutter score a goal in hockey! Then check back with us.
I did not get my goals done today. No signing of the papers, No dress gone.
I am disappointed in my self. That way. But very proud of myself that I can stand in the same room as her and just be myself. No fear. No anger. In control. Not being controlled. Ladybug no longer has any power over me.
I understood that the signing of the papers was her choice (guess I misunderstood). The goals of having the papers signed and the dress gone were things for her participate in, so why be disappointed in yourself? Leaving the dress is symbolic to me. Anyhow, you haven't shut the door if you are considering offering to her to reconcile.
Great SELF control--proof that you could look into her eyes and not feel fear or anger or loss of power.
Cool and confident... very attractive. Good job!!
Hey NM no worries at all!
I thought that I needed to clarify the timing and context. As for mentoring Cutter... that's as far from the truth as it can get. We're good friends and talk in the real world because we have things in common. I can't claim the title of "mentor" here.
And yeah Cutter, tell us how the hockey went!
Well BIL called me. Asked me how I was doing. And well he informed me that ladybug has an apartment now. Hence the movement of all that stuff from the house. His opinion of the day is that it was hard. Damn hard. And that ladybug does not look well. And that she was in total shock of how I was.
Interesting. I will keep these thoughts as well. Explains what she took today. Furniture for her apartment. 3 days in apartment and 4 days at OM's house.
And that she was in total shock of how I was.
Is that good shock as in she couldn't believe how much you had changed?
3 days in apartment and 4 days at OM's house.
Oh her parents must be so proud. What a great life she has setup for herself - I am ever so slightly jealous.
Well BIL called me. Asked me how I was doing. And well he informed me that ladybug has an apartment now. Hence the movement of all that stuff from the house. His opinion of the day is that it was hard. Damn hard. And that ladybug does not look well. And that she was in total shock of how I was.
Interesting. I will keep these thoughts as well. Explains what she took today. Furniture for her apartment. 3 days in apartment and 4 days at OM's house.
Cutter,
I am in awe of how you handled yourself. And, obviously you had an impact!
All you need now is another goal to top off your week!
cutterbug
I am thankful for knowing you.
i wish i had your strength.
Please accept my apology once more for not telling you everything about my sitch.
YOu are the man.
Cutterbug, way to go by shocking ladybug with your demeanor! Was she also taken back by your glowing skin and sweat dripping down your face from running? (LOL)
Now I don't get something-how do you know the amount of time she is staying in her apartment vs OM's place?
And where was she staying before? I forgot...sorry!
undrdg i do not care. IT DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. If you would like to keep posting your advice as you have please do so.
If you do not... have a good life.
Cutterbug, way to go by shocking ladybug with your demeanor! Was she also taken back by your glowing skin and sweat dripping down your face from running? (LOL)
Now I don't get something-how do you know the amount of time she is staying in her apartment vs OM's place?
And where was she staying before? I forgot...sorry!
Via 1 friend and brother in law. She is a proud and stubborn woman.
Before she was staying at one of her girlfriends place.
Everyone else. Thank you very much for your replies.
I give her two weeks. She will hit a crisis point, and come begging you back. Be prepared with what you want, as you may only get one shot at this.
In the meantime, be courteous, upbeat, and GIVE GRACE. It will serve you well if you decide you want to reconcile.
I don't think you two are done. Could even come AFTER a D, but I don't think you're done.
Puppy
P.S.
You handled the exchange very well, btw.
Hey P a switchup... Email on a monday
Hi cutter,
Let me know when you're available to meet. We may not even need to meet, but it might be easier. I'll leave it up to you. I will send you a revised version of the agreement. Minor revisions. Can you also forward a statement of your RRSP's as of #######.
As I mentioned, I'm free Friday evening.
Can we also determine a schedule for any home improvements you have planned or need to do prior to the sale of the house. I'd like to incorporate something to confirm that we intend to list the house by a certain date.
If you're sending me something on short notice, please send it to my blackberry, as I don't have internet at home right now, and am not able to check this account everyday.
Hope to talk to you soon.
ladybug
So P17 here is what I am going to do.
I am going to text her on Wed that I would like to speak to her on the phone that night and if she can call at 8pm.
I am then going to tell her we can meet up Friday night for dinner and to sign the papers.
I am then going to enjoy my week and determine if I want to pave the road home this friday or close the door. I am undecided.
I am then going to enjoy my week and determine if I want to pave the road home this friday or close the door. I am undecided.
Cutter, I'm envious. I wish my NC had worked so well. But what Gnosis said made me think. I'm not really under NC here - W probably knows when I fart, assuming she wants to know (which I'm not convinced about).
I am with PDT on this. Maybe not his timeline, but I'm with him. I think she'll be back. How much effort she puts in is another question, but she will be back.
I would also bet that the A is fizzling out. She has her own apartment now - why spend all that money for less than half a week in it? And you also said she wanted to have a family and found a sort of ready made one in the OM - however she's not exactly getting to indulge in that fantasy as she is escorted off the premises when the kids turn up.
Her email made me smile too. You have made a big impression on her, you do know that don't you?
Anyway, I have no doubt whatsoever you'll handle it. I pray that I reach the same position you're in sometime soon. I see you and Ladybug having a future. I wished that mine was as rosy with Mrs P. I'm kind of jealous
In a good way. You deserve it mate ...
Its funny P. I do not see it. I think I surprised her. I was suprised by that email. I figured she was going to wait to I contacted her. I am tired P. Just like you.
I give her two weeks. She will hit a crisis point, and come begging you back. Be prepared with what you want, as you may only get one shot at this.
In the meantime, be courteous, upbeat, and GIVE GRACE. It will serve you well if you decide you want to reconcile.
I don't think you two are done. Could even come AFTER a D, but I don't think you're done.
Puppy
Puppy I have been thinking about this post since I read it.
Do I know what I want?
This is what I want.
1. One husband and One wife. Exclusive to each other. No one else.
2. Both wanting the Marriage. Both willing to rebuild our pride in our marriage. Both willing to rebuild the pleasure of each others company in private and in public.
3. I will no longer be a part time husband. A marriage requires a commitment of time, I will not settle for a work aholic who comes and goes with different pasttimes. Build a commitment of time again with shared pastimes.
4. Open and honest communication on the state of the marriage and the surrounding influences on the marriage.
5. Complete transparancy on all communication devices and thoughts and schedule.
6. Complete transparancy on the affair. The 5 W's.
7. Retroville to begin to learn to communicate again. Then MC with a pro DB counciler with expereince on how to deal with affairs.
8. An open converation about children again and a resolution on this issue.
9. Absolutly no contact with OM. Full NC letter , communication with OMW's on this. Full STD Testing.
10. Repair our relationships with family and friends together. rebuild a united marriage that faces the world.
11. Once these are met. Recommit to our vows on a different day.
I say this with the full knowledge that I will not settle for anything less. I am important to myself. If ladybug is not willing to offer this. Then I move on and I will keep these wants and one day if another person will be willing to meet these with me. I will fully share myself with that person. But that is not what is important. What is important that I will live my life and seek pleasure , overcome pain and be true to myself.
This is the one lesson I learned here. Always be true to yourself. No matter what.
I have suffered through so much to learn this lesson. I will not shield myself from myself ever again. I will settle for nothing less from myself.
Cutter, fell offline last night...
I just read your list. Your sense of self is commendable. You're right that you shouldn't settle for less.
Good luck, my friend.
Mindfull Thank you.
That list. She only sees #1 until it is met. Then the rest will follow. Perhaps a high level overview. That's it. I will not waste my time taking about my wants when there is an OM.
If she asks if I love her still.
I will be honest. My love for you has drained and continues to drains each day that you are in an affair. Right now it is running on fumes.
That is the line I have drawn. I will not step back.
Good for you Cutter! You deserve nothing less!
Wow, CB, what wonderful clarity.
Thanks for sharing the lessons you have learned, and the clear definition of what is vital to a good marriage.
You will do what is right, no matter what.
Aver I was in a foul mood today. And it showed here on my posts. I am just fed up and tired and frankly I am sick of carrying this pain that only us who have been betrayed carry. I am sick of these people who commit affairs and betray us at such a deep level and they blame us for this sinful act. I am tired of reading about those who are willing to carry this burden. For it is not ours to carry. So much hurt. It gets to me some times.
Cutter, I have an open bottle of pinot noir. Would that help?
Todays song. It is where I am at today. Plus I think she has a very sexy voice...
Ladytron Destroy Everything You Touch
Destroy everything you touch today
Destroy me this way
Anything that may desert you
So it cannot hurt you
You only have to look behind you
At who’s underlined you
Destroy everything you touch today
Destroy me this way
Everything you touch you don’t feel
Do not know what you steal
Shakes your hand
Takes your gun
Walks you out of the sun
What you touch do not feel
Do not know what you steal
Destroy everything you touch today
Please destroy me this way
Destroy everything you touch today
Destroy me this way
Anything that may delay you
Might just save you
You only have to look behind you
At who’s underlined you
Destroy everything you touch today
Destroy me this way
Everything you touch you don’t feel
Do not know what you steal
Shakes your hand
Takes your gun
Walks you out of the sun
Once you touch do not feel
Do not know what you steal
Destroy everything you touch today
Please destroy me this way
Everything you touch you don’t feel
Do not know what you steal
Shakes your hand
Takes your gun
Walks you out of the sun
Once you touch you don’t feel
Do not know what you steal
Destroy everything you touch today
Please destroy me this way
Everything you touch you don’t feel
Do not know what you steal
Shakes your hand
Takes your gun
Walks you out of the sun
What you touch you don’t feel
Do not know what you steal
Destroy everything you touch today
Please destroy me this way
Cutter, they can destroy the past... but they can't touch the future. Don't let her poison it. Get your papers signed and move on.
Here's a song for you from my playlist:
Paranoid
Finished with my woman 'cause she couldn't help me with my mind
people think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time
All day long I think of things but nothing seems to satisfy
Think I'll lose my mind if I don't find something to pacify
Can you help me,
occupy my brain?
Oh yeah!
I need someone to show me the things in life that I can't find
I can't see the things that make true happiness, I must be blind
Make a joke and I will sigh and you will laugh and I will cry
Happiness I cannot feel and love to me is so unreal
And so as you hear these words telling you now of my state
I tell you to enjoy life I wish I could but I'm too late
Edit: Drop it and move on... there's a good life out there waiting for you.
Ahh GNU
Motorhead - Overkill Only way to feel the noise is when it's good and loud,
So good you can't believe it screaming with the crowd,
Don't sweat it, get it back to you, (x2)
Overkill, Overkill, Overkill
On your feet you feel the beat, it goes straight to your spine,
Shake your head you must be dead if it don't make you fly,
Don't sweat it, get it back to you, (x2)
Overkill, Overkill, Overkill
Know your body's made to move, you feel it in your guts
Rock 'n' roll ain't worth the name if it don't make you strut,
Don't sweat it, get it back to you, (x2)
Overkill, Overkill, Overkill
Sent the following reply to ladybug
Hi Ladybug
Can you call me tonight around 8PM or tomorrow after 10PM and we can confirm meeting up on Friday. If you would like we could meet at restraunt in city. Its a Thai restraunt. The food is fantastic.
Take Care
Cutter
Aww, you're asking her for a date.
Which reminds me, I have not been on a date for ages. I need to catch up!
I hope she'll take your offer.
trust me it is not a date.
I do not date mistresses. I find them unattractive. I need to get papers signed.
And I will not Shine a light that night. No R talk ever when there is adultry being commited.
Its a waste of time.
P.S. thanks for the ribbing
I laughed
Yesterday
Allow more happiness to enter your life. Someone who continually aims to gain control might not be worth dealing with. You want more openness and fewer games. Support yourself in those desires. Tonight: Enjoy each moment.
Today
You have the wherewithal to change the very nature of a situation. Your ability to grasp the dynamics involved is critical. A misunderstanding might be just that. Don't put all your power and energy into it. Tonight: All smiles.
Today is a good day.
My expression that I have always been known for is.
Life is Good.
Today I feel that today is a good day.
I feel that life is starting to happen again as well.
I am starting to think that I am coming out of the grief cycle.
Still do not sleep very well but my massage therapist stated that I was not all knots... And the only times I tensed up was when the words affair were mentioned.... PTSD I guess...
Wow, that all sounds good, CB.
You have gained so much strength and self knowledge through this process.
Oh, that I could be at that point!
Best of luck with your meeting tomorrow. The papers will be signed and you can move on to the next phase of your life.
Jeans and the white button down shirt--maybe just a day or two of beard scruff? I don't know about the other gals, but I find that sexy.
I love the outfit Avermont mentioned but prefer clean cut, smooth face myself!
OH yes--backwards baseball cap is hot!!
Somehow I knew newmama would be with me on this one! Ha!
Nooo!!! That's too juvenile.
*old witch is against*
Oh well maybe not for this occasion. But on the weekends it's sexy!
Cutter, seriously, sorry if it seemed like we were making light of this event. I think we just wanted to make ladybug go "oh, damn Cutter is sexy!"
Are you meeting for dinner or no?
Oh well maybe not for this occasion. But on the weekends it's sexy!
Only when topless!
Sorry Cutter, this clothes talk just does something with endorphin production
backwards baseball caps are for ________
I am 39 not 19
Also... I cannot stand the baseball cap hoddie thing. I love hoddies...
Only got one white shirt... Do I wear it Friday night with ladybug or on Saturday night when I am being taken out for diner after doing handyman stuff for a lady friend. Who can say no to can you come over and help me put up some floating shelves and I will take you out to dinner.
p.s. newmama its one of the movie girls
p.p.s. same restraunt both nights... Love this place.
Oh whats a LBS to do when GAL and 180's collide?
P.S. Wholeagain... topless... hmmm I think I will keep my shirt on.
You ladies Rock!
Do you have a black or dark blue for sat nite? Untucked, loose cuffs or roll once. IMHO
Do you have a black or dark blue for sat nite? Untucked, loose cuffs or roll once. IMHO
Yeaaah, that's more like it! And clean shaven.
yes i do...
clean cut for today. With new shoes by Keen. White shirt with red , blue , brown and green line pattern on it. Looks very nice. Jeans and a nice watch to match. I will be smelling nice , smile and a glow in my eyes. Wearing my new coat as well. All in all I look and feel good. Ladybug called this morning to comfirm time and place and what documents I was bringing and what documents she was bringing.
So tonight.
Nice. Polite. Soft spoken yet firm. Get those papers signed. Talk about things I know I am doing and she is not. I.E. Running. Time spent with her neice and nephew. Talk about options with the house. What food is good. Await the mention of the speakers
Answer questions with facts and figures. Any R talk. I will put a stop to it with one reply. Are you still commiting adultry. Yes. Then we have no relationship to talk about. The rest of me is a mystery. I will look her in the eyes.
The rest I will listen like a border guard. Say little and allow her to fill in the answers.
Then afterwards I meet up with a few friends for a pint. And reflect on another stage in this process towards divorce.
Cutter... Ladybug will not know what hit her!
Excellent plan, my friend!
Cutter, I like... The Keen shoes rock, btw... The best part of the post is your confidence! We're with you!
I had to relearn that you do nothing without a well written plan. Then you write it out.
Then you practice and study it.
Then when you go in. Use judgement and experience when it does not go according to the plan.
As for the confidence and right frame of mind. I always keep a few important things upfront in my mind when I think about ladybug.
1. She burned the bridge down.
2. I did not.
Cutter I had no idea this goes down tonight- you will be great!
And your feet will be happy in the Keens!
You have great inner strength through your journey and you have a clear goal with plans. I look forward to seeing how it goes.
Best
BTW- I may have missed some of the story as far as OM...did she admit right away or was it denied for a while?
The reason I ask is in my sitch there has been no admission except for her having strong feelings for him in the beginning...since then lots of lies and busts- but I look like the fool b/c she says nothing.
Sorry for the tangent
Any R talk. I will put a stop to it with one reply. Are you still commiting adultry. Yes. Then we have no relationship to talk about.
I am just wondering why you are choosing to ask the question like that instead of "Are you still seeing OM?" Just wanting to understand so I can learn if I ever am presented with reconciliation talk! Thanks!
goooood outfit by the way and very wise advice about planning everything out. I think of you when I set goals because you break your goals into small steps and follow through!!
Cutter I had no idea this goes down tonight- you will be great!
And your feet will be happy in the Keens!
You have great inner strength through your journey and you have a clear goal with plans. I look forward to seeing how it goes.
Best
BTW- I may have missed some of the story as far as OM...did she admit right away or was it denied for a while?
The reason I ask is in my sitch there has been no admission except for her having strong feelings for him in the beginning...since then lots of lies and busts- but I look like the fool b/c she says nothing.
Sorry for the tangent
Read the first bit here
cutters story part one And no it was the script at first. Even with proof.
Let me find that post
Mistakes I made Maynard. I would you to offer me advice on what you see I am doing. You need to remember that your a smart person. Who has had some serious bad stuff happen to him. Do not let this take away who you are. Let this make you a better person.
Any R talk. I will put a stop to it with one reply. Are you still commiting adultry. Yes. Then we have no relationship to talk about.
I am just wondering why you are choosing to ask the question like that instead of "Are you still seeing OM?" Just wanting to understand so I can learn if I ever am presented with reconciliation talk! Thanks!
goooood outfit by the way and very wise advice about planning everything out. I think of you when I set goals because you break your goals into small steps and follow through!!
Seeing symbolizes its a relationship not adultry. I will not cheapen any relationship with adultry.
Also why would I not say exactly what it is. It is adultry. When your married and do this it is called adultry. Nothing less.
What sounds true and what sounds like I am trying to shield guilt from her and give a subtle impression that I agree or support her faulty and poor decisions.
1. Are you still seeing douchebag ( I would use his name )
2. Are you still in a relationship with douchebag
3. Are you dating douchebag
4. Are you commiting adultry
If she says no I am not committing adultry any more.
I will reply oh so the affair is not more. You are not in contact with douchebag any more.
And if she says yes I am in contact then I reply so then yes you are still commiting adultry with a married man with children.
And if she says anything against that.
I raise my hand to the stop position and I say. "Stop it ladybug. Call it what you want , but I will call it what it is. It started while you were married. The legal term is Adultry."
Then I shut up and and look her in the eyes. And I stare at her until she looks away.
Adultry carries a moral association and most people disapprove of adultry.
Words have different meanings.
What sounds true and what sounds like I am trying to shield guilt from her and give a subtle impression that I agree or support her faulty and poor decisions.
I get it...totally mkes sense. Thanks for explaining it!
I raise my hand to the stop position and I say. "Stop it ladybug. Call it what you want , but I will call it what it is. It started while you were married. The legal term is Adultry."
NO, actually, the term is "adult
ery." With an "e"!!!
Why do so many people on this forum misspell that, especially when the built-in little spellchecker within this forum automatically inserts that godawful squiggly red line underneath it every time you leave it typed incorrectly?
Sorry, but that -- and "boundry" -- are my two pet peeves!!!
There. I feel much better now.
Puppy
There is a spell checker... Duh... Did not notice that. Adultery.
I will write it a 100 times
Right after you clap the erasers.
Adultery. I will write it a 100 times
Write it out 1000 times if you like... I don't mind... as long as you don't commit it
May things go as you plan tonight Cutter.
Thanks Gnu... Adultery.
Got some butterflies.
But I knew I would. Talk to ya on the alt.
Cutter,
I envy your cool and confidence!
Well I am back. That was absolulty surreal. I so i could get there early. On the way. Get a text message saying that she is going to be 20 minutes late... Printer issue with an apology. So i reply back to text me when she is close and a thankyou. So I go grocery shopping.
Get in the restaunt and order a tea and two cups. And await ladybug. When she gets in I smile and say hi ladybug. The Tea is good and its cold. So enjoy a hot cup of tea.
She looked at me and I just smiled and acted very open.
And she sat down and over the next 100 minutes we laughed , looked at each other, smiled and I am completely confused.
That was my wife there. She asked about my running. We talked about family. She told me about apartment and common friends. She talked about stores I would like to visit.
She asked about runnning in a running race with me and our up comming wedding in march. I said yes.
Such a bizzare evening. I thought it was the perfect dB date.
Just a night where you look across and see your wife but you just keep that to your self.
Damn she looked sexy. And when I left I got in my car and drove anay and I cried.
Why did she have to be so nice? F#()k that hurt. I saw my wife and I missed her. I am now compeltly confused.
I did a perfect DB date.....I am guessing she is a perfect WAS.
So different from the last two meetings. But I was so different to.
Damn. It was so hard. We signed the papers and I got everything I wanted.
I am so confused.
Cutter, it is still good. You signed the papers BUT left a very good impression and very good memory/association with you.
You signed the papers. Now you can be "free" to fully detach. You will date, live life, etc. She is still in the same place with OM...her relationship will crumble. You will have moved on...she will regret and reminisce. She will contact you. Who knows where you will be/what you want?
Closure has happened.
confusion SUCKS!
(((hugs)))
Does she know how to find the path back?
Do you think WAS's need reminding? Did you say anything about it?
I think a few days ago you were going to???
You have been sounding angry the past few days. Did you feel any of that? Sounds like you did what you intended but are surprised at your feelings. Did you think you were done? Do you really think she is? Do you get the feeling a lot was left unsaid?
I'm crying for ya, for all of us.
Oh, Cutter, I am sorry it hurt so much.
I guess in some ways it would be better if she had been a total b**h, right?
But you held your integrity. You were the perfect CB that you are.
I spent a lot of time yesterday wondering how it would go. I appreciate your posting it here.
The papers are signed. Take a breath over that. Proceed on, one step at a time.
You have another date tonight, right? This time with the dark blue shirt, untucked, sleeves casually rolled? Keene shoes are definitely great. I still vote for the day's worth of scruff. But NO baseball cap, glad you are with me on that!
I have a date tonight, too, with the "nice guy, no worries guy." We will finally see AVATAR.
One of my goals is to go back to my Match.com profile and get it going again. I need to get out and flirt and have fun. Moving on, right?
Love and peace and great night out to you, CB!
Cutter I can relate to your confusion as well.
Just when you are feeling strong you see her or hear her and you turn to mush and miss her even more. Im the same way.
And like you I am trying to stay grey or dark. On the bright side we are 10 days from final divorce and she now wants to spend time with me. Its strange that she talks to me more now that we are separated than when she was living here. Not sure why but I just cant say no to her at this point. More me wanting to guage things than being weak though.
I did wear a baseball cap yesterday and a two day scruff so that may have been my charm LOL.
Ironically she wants to see AVATAR as well. But Ill wait for her to ask me to see it with me. Ball is completely in her court now. Anyway sorry for the hijack.
You dont know me but I am glued to your thread Cutter. Its ironic how pain can bring strangers together like nothing else.
Take care and be the strong gentleman that you appear to be.
Cutter, Im away just now but was wanting to catch up on ypur thread as this via a mobile phone.
You did good. Very good. I know she signed the papers but she realistically didnt have a choice at this point.
I still stick to what I said. This aint over for ypu two by a long chalk. She will be back.
You gave her lots of food for thought. She saw a guy she had a history with. A guy who loves himself. A guy who is confident. A guy who is strong and a guy she can still have a family with.
YOU DID GOOD. Now keep on the DBing horse.
Cutter -
You gave her something to think about. Enough said.
Cutter I agree- I too was very anxious for you over the weekend, my comp is out of commission for a bit. You did great!! And like we spoke of earlier, it's def OK to cry. It doesn not mean you are wrong or weak or what have you. You know how you feel and you are OK w/ it.
I've had the same experiences in my sitch- it's always easier when they are cold and b*&*hy. I agree w/ the other posts, you gave her a lot to take home w/ her. And it's not over till its over.
Are you at all upset that you didn't have the talk about OM? I see it as a poss good thing, as the date didn't suffer any hick-ups. I'm sure we've all had that interaction- where everything was going so well and we opened our mouth.
Curious to hear your thoughts today.
Maynard. You ask some very good questions my friend. Another proof that your starting to rebuild yourself. Soon enough you will believe it yourself.
I am glad we did not mention the OM. As truthfully it would have derailed the signing of those papers. I walked away with everything I asked for.
I remember when we signed them. I sat there for a few minutes and just talked about tea's and how was the meal and then mentioned that I drank way too much tea and I excused myself to the washroom. I was losing the mask. Becoming emotional. So I got up walked to the bathroom and I stood there facing the mirror and I just smiled. I said. to myself. Well cutter. A goal was met. A very important goal. remember that. remember that the woman in front of you is a shell. It looks like ladybug, sounds like ladybug. But it is not ladybug. This is a woman who has no respect for you nor your marriage. This is a woman who tossed you out of her life without any concern for how this affects your well being. This is a woman who did not care at all how this affects everyone else who is attached to us. This is a woman who broke my dad's heart and did not even have the common decency to say good bye. This is a woman who is sleeping with another man. The reason she is happy today is because her affair is in a better place in her mind than it was on Sunday. Believe this.
And I breathed deeply over and over. I smiled at myself and walked back to the table and then ladybug picked up the tab and we walked to our cars. And that is when the emotions all came out. I drove away crying and did not look in the rear-view mirror. I looked forward.
I am glad now that we kept it to safe topics.
I have thought about all this again. Now I am separated. Which where I live is the same as D.
I weighted the following items this weekend.
I am proud of how I acted. I kept my vows and morals to the end. I did not stoop to ladybugs level.
I remained civil and nice and showed grace.
I stated my goals clearly to ladybug many months ago. It is not my issue that she did not listen.
I secured myself financially against ladybug.
I came out of a depression with goals to achieve in the second half of my life.
VS.
A woman who has no respect for my wellbeing.
A woman who has no respect for vows and morals.
A woman who has no respect for families and children.
A woman who has decided to become what she is today, someone who values crumbs over substance.
A woman who abandoned me so easy during my first crisis I ever experienced in my life.
And I thought.
Here is a woman I can walk away from now. I sat there Friday night and I realized that I still love this woman deeply. But it is a love of what was, not what is. If that makes sense? I have no bitterness. Just disappointment. And I tired to save the marriage. But I could not. But I realized ( via this site and my own thoughts )that it takes two people to make a marriage happen. And that is not happening. Nor do I see it happening.
My next goals are to sell the house. Figure out what I want to do the second half of my life. Right now its computers. I wish to change that. So I am going to move away from that.
I do not think I can stop with my giving attitude. So I think I am going to look towards moving in to some providing profession. I am truly at a crossroads in my life. Its exciting. I no longer fear this.
From all this. Look at what I have gained.
I gained the ability to understand about boundaries.
I gained the ability to understand about my needs and wants again.
I gained the ability to understand that I want to better myself instead of going with the flow.
I have met some of the most beautiful , strong , and real people. People who I have not met face to face, but I proudly call them my friends. People who I will meet one day down the road and I will be able to look them in the eye and smile and say what an honour it is to stand before you friend.
I gained the ability to cry
I share a unique hurt that only us who have been cheated on truly understand. I know as the years go by and someone says to me that they have been cheated on, I can look them in the eye and state. I understand.
And in a strange way. I thank Ladybug for waking me up.
This is where I am standing today.
Also Maynard. To help process these thoughts. I did the following that weekend.
I talked to Gnosis on the phone.
I talked to Mindfull and DaybyDay in chat.
Next day. I talked to people in the real world
I talked to a good friend of the marriage ( Lunch )
I met up with good friends of the marriage for a pint that night and talked freely with them on my feelings of the signing.
Many people with their own opinions and s%*t they have to deal with. Physical and virtual. I feel that balance is needed. Both are needed during these times.
And I pounded the pavement for a good 90 minutes as well to talk to myself.
Cutter, it is still good. You signed the papers BUT left a very good impression and very good memory/association with you.
You signed the papers. Now you can be "free" to fully detach. You will date, live life, etc. She is still in the same place with OM...her relationship will crumble. You will have moved on...she will regret and reminisce. She will contact you. Who knows where you will be/what you want?
Closure has happened.
You are very smart newmama.
Thankyou
The date went well next day. Had to go back to that same place again. I was there for 2 hours again. But the conversation that night was about changing careers while keeping a full time job going. Crossroads in life. Culture and bettering one's mind. A very enjoyable evening. Then the date ended at 9ish and I was off to meet up with friends. Very surreal weekend. And here I am Monday. I survived the weekend. I have a whole new week to look forward towards.
Cutter, I am actually excited for you, not depressed or sad!
A new career? What fields are you looking into?
About your date..will you see her again?
<snip>
I talked to Gnosis on the phone. <snip>
Many people with their own opinions and s%*t <snip>
People who I have not met face to face, but I proudly call them my friends.
The feeling is mutual buddy.
You sound good, Cutter.
You DONE good.
Puppy
Cutter, I am actually excited for you, not depressed or sad!
A new career? What fields are you looking into?
About your date..will you see her again?
I know you are newmama!
My university was Psychology, never finished.Got tired of having no money or food. Ended up getting a diploma in electronics. Which was enjoyable for awhile. But the last few years I have struggled with it. No passion.
But this whole issue that happened to me completely fascinates me. As does what is happening to others. So that would social work.
So what I am thinking of doing is researching out the university's near by. Looking at their Social Work paths and determining if the courses are offered at nights and on weekends. Then Starting in the summer / Fall. I will begin to take these courses one then two at a time. And if it is my passion then I will switch over to this in a few years. Worst case. I take some university courses and better myself.
The date.
It was a very good date. Very invigorating conversation. I will ask her out on a date some time over the next week or so. Perhaps a day trip to a museum followed by a bite to eat. Or a trip up to a brew pub in a city near by. That we both mentioned that we like very much. But that is a few weeks out.
I have immediate goals of getting ready for my first half marathon. My first race.
Getting my stuff in order to be packed away for when I sell the house. Trip to visit my friend who's marriage I saved in sarasota some time in may. Then plan for another trip to ireland later on in the year.
And somewhere in all this I have to find a new place to live.
I think I have a busy year coming up.
Sounds good Cutter- travel, dating, new directions, clean slate, and lots of learned lessons.
Sounds like a busy and EXCITING year of possibilities to me!!!
Holy Crap cutter,
I haven't commented yet - but I've lurked on you for months.
Good for you! You did the right thing and I hope you are as proud of yourself as we all are of you!!! You are a rock.
Thank you for being honest with your feelings toward ladybug. I think sometimes people want to pretend that they don't have those feelings - you were true to yourself. Its inspiring.
I was listening to Metallica's "Devil's Dance" from Re-Load while reading the posts leading up to your Dinner. It made for quite the soundtrack... thought you might appreciate the image
Yeah
I feel you too
Feel
Those things you do
In your eyes I see a fire that burns to free the you
That's wanting through
Deep inside you know, seeds I plant will grow
One day you will see
And dare to come down to me
Yeah, c'mon, c'mon, now take the chance
That's right
Let's dance
Snake
I am the snake
Tempting
That bite you take
Let me make your mind
Leave yourself behind
...Be not afraid
I got what you need, hunger I will feed
One day you will see
And dare to come down to me
Yeah c'mon, c'mon, now take the chance
hahaa
Come dancccaa!
Yeah, come dancin'
One day you will see
And dare to come down to me
Yeah c'mon, c'mon, now take the chance
Yeah
I feel you too
Feel
Those things you do
In your eyes I see a fire that burns to free the you
That's wanting through
Deep inside you know, seeds I plant will grow
One day you will see
And dare to come down to me
Yeah c'mon, c'mon now take the chance
That's right
Let's dance
It's nice to see you here
Ha ha
Sounds to me like you are well on your way to bigger and better things!!!!!!!!!!!!
T
Cutter--you the Man.
New career, new house...I need to do the same for myself.
Need to think about engaging in this battle for the house. What defines wining in this case? And do I want to win, or do the right thing?
Holy crow, I am in a bad place right now. I offer my admiration for how you are handling things. And hope to find my own inner compass soon.
You rock.
Aver - Cutter is the man, isn't he?
He's a good bug. Sorry you're in a bad place right now. Maybe our joint "appointment" will cheer you up! LoL
Hey, Cutter! WAVE!
well it will take a few years to switch over. I am not giving up my job so it will be nightschool for many years... But that is cool
I am considering the same- not looking forward to working full time and night school 4 days a week for 8 months, but it just might keep me distracted enough to have a new reality and a better future-
Good for you man
I am actually looking at taking one course at a time... And when I can handle that bump it up to 2. Baby steps first.
Sounds like a great plan Cutter! You would be a great social worker!
Cutterbug--
do you mind giving me some more details about your plan?
You sound so together. We started out sitches about the same time.
You are planning to move? and start school? keep your job, go to night school?
Why are you moving? is selling the house part of the settlement?
I just need to hear from other people invigorating stories about Chapter 2. Help me to visualize new possibilities for myself.
Cutterbug--
do you mind giving me some more details about your plan?
You sound so together. We started out sitches about the same time.
You are planning to move? and start school? keep your job, go to night school?
Why are you moving? is selling the house part of the settlement?
I just need to hear from other people invigorating stories about Chapter 2. Help me to visualize new possibilities for myself.
Sure. I am getting there for being together. A work in progress.
Today is day 0
0-3 months.
1. finish getting house in order to sell. Half money with ladybug. ( ladybug wants to sell and I do not want to buy her out. And I would feel weird having another woman over here. So new place will be another step on the road )
2. Determine which school has the courses I wish to take at nightschool.
3. figure out where I want to live ( within 30 KM of work.. I think 30KM is 10billion miles )
4. Start volunteering for YMCA to see if I would enjoy social work.
3-5 months
1. Sell house and move to new house ( I want an open concept place that is big enough for my speakers.)
2. Travel to Florida to visit good friend and get out of dodge for a bit. Sarasota is the location. I hear it has beautiful beaches.
3. Apply for night school class for summer or fall 1 course a semester towards my degree.
6 months
1. turn 40 ugggh have good time
7 -10 months
1. go to school and live life
deal with happy bomb-a-versary during the month of August and beginning of September.
2. run marathon.
3. travel to europe.
30 Km is 18.75 miles, I believe!!! lol
about social work...you need to guard you heart; build up a desensitization to the sad lives at there as you aim to help as many as you can but be wary of burn out...maybe Canada's social workers don't have 200 clients though! (not discouraging you; my family has a lot of social workers! but we live in the USA)
Cutter,
That's a fabulous plan! I hear social work can be tough - any reason for that particular change? Have you thought about becoming a licensed marriage counselor???
Just a thought.... Same amount of schooling (or close?) and a better paycheck to go with it??
Just a thought...
T
yes! I vote for becoming an MC too!--SPECIALIZE in infidelity. There seems to be a shortage of counselors who understand it.
Oh wait...this is your life, your decision, but seriously you would be good at it.
Cutter - You can practice on me!
IT MUST BE FRIDAY.....
I charge dinners and bottles of wine
Get cooking. And no smutty books.... I run a family operation here.
All I need to know about life was taught to me by foghorn leghorn. Lightbulb... When I retire cutter... Foghorn it is... Irony at its best...
"I don't need your love to keep me warm, Widow Hen. I have my BANDAGES to keep me warm!"
"We have been flim-flammed."
"This is gonna cause more confusion than a mouse in a burlesque show!"
"You're doing a lot of choppin', but no chips are flyin'."
"That boy's as strong as an ox, and just about as smart."
"Pay attention, boy! I'm cuttin' but you're not bleedin'!"
"I don't this kid's got all his marbles. Shakes his head when he means yes and nods when he means no."
" Ya got a hole in your glove. I keep pitchin' 'em and you keep missin' 'em! "
"Two half nuthins is a WHOLE nuthin!!"
Cutter -
OK, orange chicken, asian noodles and veggies tonight... SMELLS YUMMY!!! The wok is a smokin'!!!
Wine? I'm having a pomegranate juice and UV Blue cocktail right now!
Lots of wine, though.
Where's the patients couch? LoL I have a lot to tell!!! And, it isn't pretty!
Seriously, you'd make an awesome social worker. I'm glad to know ya!!!
Greg Norman Shiraz over here!
Puppy
Puppy's 13000th post is here ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Happy 13th millennium PDT Celebrating already I see.
Puppy's 13000th post is here ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Happy 13th millennium PDT Celebrating already I see.
OMG! How appropriate, too -- drinking wine!!! ha!
Wow, 13,000. I wonder how many of those were 2x4s, LOL?
Puppy
Pup. Yummy choice! I like mine to bite back, but you're livin' large on a Fri evening!
Chewy cab, or better yet a Bordeaux, that's spicy. Maybe a Rioja!
Its got to be enough to stain your teeth!
Reminds me of that song... Shania? Are you strong enough to be my man? Are you chewy enough to stain my teeth? LoL
Reminds me of a favorite song of mine (Springsteen, natch):
Tougher Than the Rest
Well It's Saturday night
you're all dressed up in blue
I been watching you awhile
maybe you been watching me too
So somebody ran out
left somebody's heart in a mess
Well if you're looking for love
honey I'm tougher than the rest
Some girls they want a handsome Dan
or some good-lookin' Joe on their arm
Some girls like a sweet-talkin' Romeo
Well 'round here baby
I learned you get what you can get
So if you're rough enough for love
honey I'm tougher than the rest
The road is dark
and it's a thin thin line
But I want you to know I'll walk it for you any time
Maybe your other boyfriends
couldn't pass the test
Well if you're rough and ready for love
honey I'm tougher than the rest
Well it ain't no secret
I've been around a time or two
Well I don't know baby maybe you've been around too
Well there's another dance
all you gotta do is say yes
And if you're rough and ready for love
honey I'm tougher than the rest
If you're rough enough for love
baby I'm tougher than the rest
Copyright © Bruce Springsteen (ASCAP)
love springsteen. Its why I kept a record player. Nebraska. What a fanstatic album.
Thanks Puppy for dropping by for 13000.
I have a pic w/Bruce!
Speaking of bite...
I look like I am going to take a bite out of him in the pic!
Ill find it.
love springsteen. Its why I kept a record player. Nebraska. What a fanstatic album.
Thanks Puppy for dropping by for 13000.
That's the album my wife and I used to ML to in our newlywed days! We'd work all day out in the yard, then come in late-afternoon, take a joint shower, grab some wine coolers, and put "Nebraska" on.
Used to Be
August, 2003
Warm springtime Saturdays
Spent sweating in the sun
Sweet afternoon romance
Newlywed fun
The Boss is singin’ Nebraska
Thunder’s clapping outside
Dark clouds are rolling in
But we’re happy inside
That’s how it used to be
Oh, it used to be
So young and so innocent
So wild and so free
Didn’t have half as much
As we’re trapped by right now
But somehow I think that we were rich
And I’m wondering how
I can get back,
Gotta get back
To where we used to be.
Years passed and duty called
Places we had to be
Still sometimes we’d steal away
You’d be so tender to me
Somewhere I noticed it changing,
It was there behind your eyes
I don’t know when it happened,
But in the darkness I’d cry
For what used to be
Just how it used to be
So loving and tender
I knew it’s where you wanted to be
Hell, we didn’t know anything
But one thing we knew
Was just you and me
Oh baby can I take you back
Gotta get us back
To where we used to be
So blessed in so many ways,
Lord I hate to complain
Maybe I’m the one who missed it
And caused us this pain
Maybe I can I make it right
And we’ll be happy again
And then I’ll take you back
God help me get us back
To where we used to be
Where we used to be
Baby, we used to be
I would give anything
To be that young and that free
Can’t think of anything
I’ve surrounded myself with
Can’t think of anything
That I wouldn’t give
To find that used to be
That precious used to be
Please don’t turn away from me
Come back to that used to be.
that's nice, pup. one of yours?
OK this thread is where it is GOIN' ON tonight! lol All this talk of wine, Springsteen, yummy food...
Cutter, your place ROCKS!
BTW Mind, I totally get you on the "biting back"... hehe... like my wine and men the same way...HAHA! (ok sorry TMI!)
hiya , Rocked!!! Pass the nuts!!
Puppy
Rocked.
I knew I could count on you. BTW, I'd take a fake nibble right now!
Hey y'all---
I thought this was s'posed to be a family show!
Hey y'all---
I thought this was s'posed to be a family show!
Oh ya... oops, sorry Cutter!
BTW Puppy, beautiful poem! meant to say that last night.
Thx. That was back in my SSM days. Which has been pretty much ALL of our days.
Puppy
That was a nice poem Puppy.
Thank you for sharing that.
Todays song is off london calling
Playing it in the background while I GAL a kitchen floor... Or is that 180 the floor. From dirty to clean.
The Clash - I'm not down If it's true, a rich man leads a sad life
That's what they from day to day
Then what do all the poor do with their lives?
On Judgment Day, have nothing to say
I've been beat up, I've been thrown out
But I'm not down, no I'm not down
I've been shown up, but I've grown up
And I'm not down, no I'm not down
On my own, I faced a gang of jeering in strange streets
When my nerves were pumping and I
Fought my fear in, I did not run
I was not done
I've been beat up, I've been thrown out
But I'm not down, no I'm not down
I've been shown up, but I've grown up
And I'm not down, no I'm not down
And I have lived that kind of day
When none of your sorrows will go away
It goes down and down and hit the floor
Down and down and down some more depression
But I now there'll be some way
When I can swing everything back my way
Like skyscrapers rising up
Floor by floor, I'm not giving up
So you rock around and think that you're the toughest
In the world, the whole wide world
But you're streets away from where it gets the roughest
You ain't been there
I've been beat up, I've been thrown out
But I'm not down, no I'm not down
I've been shown up, but I've grown up
And I'm not down, no I'm not down
I'm not down, no I'm not down
No I'm not down, no I'm not down
No I'm not down, no I'm not down
No I'm not down, I'm not down
The Clash - Train in Vain Say you stand by your man
Tell me something, I don't understand
You said you love me and that's a fact
And then you left me, said you felt trapped
Well some things, you can explain away
But my heartache's in me till this day
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Did you stand by me?
No way
All the times when we were close
I'll remember these things the most
I see all my dreams come tumblin' down
I won't be happy without you around
So all alone I keep the wolves at bay
And there is only one thing that I can say
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Did you stand by me?
No way
You must explain why this must be
Did you lie when you spoke to me?
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Now I got a job
But it don't pay
I need new clothes
I need somewhere to stay
But without all of these things I can do
But without your love, I won't make it through
But you don't understand my point of view
I suppose there's nothing I can do
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Did you stand by me?
No way
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Did you stand by me?
No way
You must explain, why this must be
Did you lie when you spoke to me?
Did you stand by me?
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Did you stand by me?
No way
Did you stand by me?
No, not at all
Did you stand by me?
No way
Well I absolutely enjoyed no girls weekend. And won 3 prizes at the hockey game. Just a nice and relaxing weekend. Need to get back to the running. Hopefully leg is ok tonight after hockey.
Ended not so nice though. Niece and nephew's grandfather passed away. So I will see what I can do to help my brother in-law and sister in-law through this difficult time. I did not know him very well.
Sorry to hear about the loss, you are a great man and I know that BIL and SIL will appreciate your support.
Get back to the running!!!
Thanks for checking in on me over the weekend.
Hey, Cutter - Think I've told you this before, probably mutliple times, you're such a good soul.
Now get out there and run, lazy butt!
Cutter,
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. YOU are an amazing man! You IL's are lucky to have you in their lives.
Quick Hijack... PUPPY... if you are inclined drop by my sitch.
Thanks!!
T
Ditto on the last three posts.
Its disturbing too me how similar death is to divorce.
Cutter, your spouse must be blind. Seriously, and that may be in the literal or at least a mental sense.
Don't mean to put her down mind you. She may be going through a lot of pain just like my STBX is probably going through.
Started another thread about this and I am having more empathy for the WAW from what I learned about it.
Cutter, sorry to hear of your loss. It is awesome that you have maintained relationships with your IL family and now you can support them during this tragic event as well.
Glad to hear you enjoyed your testosterone filled weekend, though! LOL
Ditto on the last three posts.
Its disturbing too me how similar death is to divorce.
Cutter, your spouse must be blind. Seriously, and that may be in the literal or at least a mental sense.
Don't mean to put her down mind you. She may be going through a lot of pain just like my STBX is probably going through.
Started another thread about this and I am having more empathy for the WAW from what I learned about it.
Ladybug is not blind. She just have a different view or perspective now. I saw that pain in her eyes a few weeks ago. It hurt to not be able to help. I have talked to some peers in the real world who are 10 to 20 years out on this stuff. And they say it still hurts all those years later to see someone you loved very much carrying hurt. And you can/should not do anything about it as it was the path they decided to follow.
Empathy is on the path to forgiveness. You may not be able to offer it to your spouse. But at least you need to work towards offering it for yourself. I do not think I will fully empathize with the concept of deliberately choosing the path of hurting someone on purpose. But, at least I can forgive this choice. It does take time. And there is a required amount of recycling. But it is achievable if you make it a goal in all this life altering event. Look around in the real world. I am sure you will meet many WAS's Perhaps some could use the perspective of the LBS.
Cutter, sorry to hear of your loss. It is awesome that you have maintained relationships with your IL family and now you can support them during this tragic event as well.
Glad to hear you enjoyed your testosterone filled weekend, though! LOL
Thanks everyone. Family is so very important.
I am glad that I kept this path. And I am glad that people who come here follow this path as well. It is very important and a very good judge of character.
Hey Cutter... not good at condolences, but you have mine.
Good on you for taking the high road and also maintaining the good R with the In-Law side of the family.
Cutter, sorry to hear of your and their loss. They have a good guy on their side though in you.
Hey Cutter--
I can only ditto all of the above posts.
I am such a Grasshopper to your Achieved Wisdom.
Perhaps, some day, the student can at least match the master.
Keep your good soul reaching out there in the world!
Hey Cutter--
I can only ditto all of the above posts.
I am such a Grasshopper to your Achieved Wisdom.
Perhaps, some day, the student can at least match the master.
Keep your good soul reaching out there in the world!
Hah. Thanks for the compliment Aver... I think we are all gaining our inner strength. I have a ton of respect for you.
So I have been working hard.... on figuring out my play list for my race. I figure 2hours + it will require 50 hours or so of music planing
See I want my top ten favourite songs at the end.
The last song I want to hear has been an old friend. One who has seen me through bright sunny days and dark nights. One song that I know off by heart. And when I hear it I sing it in all its glory. Its an old punk rock song. By a band called nomenasno. The song is
Victory .
I gotta warn ya its 10 minutes long. But the big debate is the song before it.
SonicReducer - Deadboys
NewDayRising - Husker Du
In my Eyes - MinorThreat
Teenage Kicks - Undertones.
Back Against the Wall - Circle Jerks
Where Eagles Dare - Misfits.
If anyone is talking to R2C ask him to give me his opinion. I believe he is an old punk rocker as well
Here are the lyrics
When I set out on this journey
I thought it would never end
When I started down that road
I could not see the end
And when I took that first step
I fell in so deep
And all those things that were so hard-won
I thought I would always keep
Now what do you think I see
Standing like a wall in front of me
Defeat, not victory
Defeat, not victory
Defeat, not victory
Chorus:
So what are you going to do? Die?
No
You gonna lay down and die?
No
I will not admit defeat
I will not admit defeat
I will see victory
Pride and deceit
Have choked my life like weeds
And I lost sight of what I really had
What I really need
And all the things I should've valued
I gave away for a prayer and a song
And now when I reach out for them
They are gone
Now you know what I see
Standing in front of me
Like a headstone
A [censored] monument to human misery
Defeat, not victory
Defeat, not victory
Defeat, not victory
Chorus
Do I have any friends here?
I can't see
Are any of my friends here?
I can't see
What about you?
Will you be a friend to me?
What about you?
Will you be a friend to me?
I've got a question to ask you
And then you can ask it of me
It's a simple request
And then you can make it of me
Can you forgive me?
Can you see what will be?
Is it victory?
Now I can't show you all the things I've seen
And I can't make you feel anything
Certainly not what they meant to me
And someday I know, no matter how hard we try
We are all going to have to lay down and die
So maybe I should just tell you
What I hope and believe
For every defeat there will be a victory
For every defeat there will be a victory
In defeat, victory
Well I am back from the service. That was difficult and I felt rather uncomfortable during the whole time.
Got there. Talked to everyone then when ladybug showed up I just said Hello ladybug and then just stayed with both brother in-laws.
Then went into the service area early and sat down. Ladybug came in and the seat next to me was open. I was thinking please don't and the bench in front and behind me was open. She just stood there for 30 seconds ( most likely 5 to 10 seconds but it felt like a long time )and looked at me and looked around and then turned and went to the coffin. Her brother came in and quickly sat down beside me. I whispered thank you to him. And then I watched ladybug as she turned around and saw that seat was now taken and she had a bizarre look on her face for a few seconds and then went and sat down right in front of me. So I starred at the back of her head for a few minutes. Thinking. WTF. This is rather difficult, but I can do this I am here for friends and family. My other brother in-law who was sitting on the other side of the aisle ( It was his father who passed ) looked at the both of us and pointed to the bench behind him that was open. So I got up with my other brother in-law and went and sat there.
The service was difficult. The sermon was about 50 years of marriage and how they survived the hard times and thrived in the good times. All I could think was. I wonder what your thinking since you could not even make it past 10 years. And I held back the tears. And just went all stone face and blank and counted flowers and anything else that was in the room ( Thanks Aver )
And I thought about how the first time in our relationship that was difficult for me and ladybugs actions. How she bailed, and how she just purposely hurt me during the most difficult time of my life( this is just pre affair ). How I did not during her difficult times. My brother in-laws sister sat in front of me. She was a LBS as well. She looked back at me during her own fathers funeral and asked me how I was doing. How was I holding up and said that she was very thankful that I would grace her fathers funeral. I looked at her and just said thank you. And I was at peace then. I knew that I did the right thing. It was difficult and it hurt. But it was the right thing to do. Support family. Support good people. Regardless of our personal relationships.
But it was very hard.
When the service ended I turned to my brother in-law who sat beside me and I said. Thank you. I am not going to stay too long as this is very difficult and I feel uncomfortable. He said. I understand. Nothing more.
Then when we left the service I had full intention of leaving. But other brother in-law completely broke down so 3 brother in-laws went out side and shared a few minutes of silence.
When we went back in. I walked around and gave my hugs. The sister who was a LBS walked up to me and again asked how I was doing. I looked her in the eyes and said Inner-strength. She looked at me and nodded and said. Inner-strength right back to me and gave me a hug. One LBS to another. And I could not get over how she showed me such grace at this time. And I knew that she understood how I felt as well.
So then I went to leave and ladybug came up to me and we had the following conversation.
LB: Hi cutter are you working from home today.
C: No ladybug I am at work today. Are you going back to work now.
LB: I really do not want to due to the situation.
C: Oh, OK. Ummm I can see that.
LB: So are you going home now or just back to work?
C: Not going home going to get a bite to eat for lunch then back to work.
LB: Can I join you.
C: OK. I am going here
LB: Ok.
LB: So what are you doing this weekend are you busy.
C: Yes I am busy this weekend.
LB: Ok. Well I have niece staying down And then she asked nephew what he was doing.
C: Ok well I will see you in a few minutes then.
Then she asked her brother to join in.
So the 3 of us had lunch.
Talked about sports. She asked about my family members health that is not good. Talked about upcoming race. That now she may not be able to attend. Said. Well I think the next time we see each other is on the 6th of March so see you then.
I replied take care and left.
Made it.
wow- you did great. I'm sure there were lots of feelings when she asked to join you...
I know what you mean sitting through a service like that- I also know you had a wedding a few months ago.
I went to a wedding back in Oct.- it was terrible- everyone asking and I could say nothing. I started smoking again that weekend.
Cutter- you are a prince of a man, and you have helped me and so many others. Even if Ladybug never kows that or cares to know that- you have fought tooth and nail to be the man that you are- and you will bring so much to someone and it will be returned 10 fold.
Cutter, I am impressed. Wow. INNER STRENGTH. You definitely have it. What a difficult event to be at and you handled it as a strong, dignified gentleman. Proud for you!!
Cutter- you are a prince of a man, and you have helped me and so many others. Even if Ladybug never knows that or cares to know that- you have fought tooth and nail to be the man that you are- and you will bring so much to someone and it will be returned 10 fold.
I second that!! You will be rewarded greatly for how you have dealt with everything.
I can't even begin to imagine how it was for you at lunch. So strong...
Cutter!!!
I am overwhelmed with the urge to give you a big hug - and I hardly know you. I second and third the above posts - INNER STRENGTH. I have tears in my eyes - what a struggle.
((((((Cutter))))))
T
Cutter, once again another sitch handled with dignity and strength. I can only imagine how hard that was, and you did it. YOu are right, it was the right thing to do to support good people.
(((Cutter)))) - proud to know you, my friend!
Ditto to all that, CB!
Your BIL and all the family appreciated your being there more than you will ever know.
And how you held up during a sermon on 50 years M and such... I will never know.
You are bringing your inner peace to others, and that is as the Buddha, Jesus, and all the other great teachers ask us to do.
Peace.
I couldn't believe how hard the service was...you made it through that but then it blew me away to see how strong you were to converse with Ladybug and join her and her brother for lunch!!! Wow. I bet you are drained now.
Editors - Bricks and Mortar For those of you who love joydivision
No one understands,
the way you found your God,
there's a bullet in your hands,
Give a dog a bone,
feed him for the day,
and teach him how to kill and,
I am the close defence
I am the city wall,
stealing pounds and pence
from you all.
Still no one understands,
the way you found your God,
there's a bullet in your hands.
Pour salt water on the wound,
pour salt water on the wound,
this home is more than
Bricks and Mortar,
pour salt water on the wound.
Ah!
When the boys told you,
you have the arms of a soldier,
those arms will never hold her again.
It's just like I told you,
when the boys told you,
he's gonna be a soldier for them!
Pour salt water on the wound,
pour salt water on the wound,
this home is more than
Bricks and Mortar,
pour salt water on the wound.
I hope life is good for you.
I hope life is good for you.
I hope life is good for you,
I hope life is good for you
Ah!
My god, CB--kill me with Joy Division, why dontcha.
It's a wonder I didn't kill myself in high school, hanging out all dramatic dressed in black and listening to JD.
I can only listen to Salsa/Cuban music now. Nice beat, no words I can understand.
Aver -
You and I would have been great friends in high school!!!
Difference - I still like the music
and I guess I still wear alot of black... hmmmmm...
I still like the music too, and I almost always wear black. Hey, it's a good color on me, and hides all my spills. (I'm a bit messy)
I am just not listening to any music NOW as I can't stand to hear--almost anything that might make me think of X.
Yes, high school--smoking cigs, hanging out, trying to be cool--those were the days!
I still like the music too, and I almost always wear black. Hey, it's a good color on me, and hides all my spills. (I'm a bit messy)
I am just not listening to any music NOW as I can't stand to hear--almost anything that might make me think of X.
Yes, high school--smoking cigs, hanging out, trying to be cool--those were the days!
Its Friday
So as a reward 3 songs that I just love.... from back in the day
Yea its a monty python sketch.... ska style Rudy a message to you and
Some say she is from mars....... Well she isn't Since I am canadian I need to add some canadian content. Its the law Eh...
Echo Beach
Oh, the Specials....saw them in the early 90's as a "reunion" tour.
Saw the Psychodolic Furs at a "reunion" tour, too. Richard Butler was the only original member. Still has that voice!
Spent the past 20 odd years listening to jam bands as that is X's music. I like it too, don't get me wrong, but it may be time to strike out on my own musical tastes search.
Aver-I understand what you are saying about "striking out on your own musical tastes search"! My H is a huge blues fan and I came to like it too since I have known him (well, I liked some of it for years but didn't know it was classified as blues!) but listening to it now makes me sad so I have "retreated" into the oldies (stuff that I listened to growing up) and am actually checking out some of the music that my D11 enjoys!
Good for you for listening to the "tweens" music! I keep fooling myself that because I work with college students, I am "keeping up" on music. But that ain't really true, try as I might.
thank goodness they do like 80's music, these crazy kids.
how is this for 10000000 to 1 odds... out on a date... its a day date... we go to a running store in Toronto... i buy some stuff we are wondering about and i go hey there is this tiny hole in the wall fish n chip place about 20 minutes from here has 4 seats and the best fries in the world... we go there... eat lunch and as were leaving ladybug pulls up in a car with our niece and gets out... they are going to the same place ..... Timing is just amazing. As we are just about to enter a coffee shop. I see the car pull up. And hear my niece laughing. So I look at her and go.
Hi. What are you doing.
Niece : Fish n chips
Me: just left there and now its coffee have a good day.
Go into coffee shop..... Heart pounding
Look at date and go. That was niece and ex wife, sorry i am a bit nervous.
Date looks at me and goes. Thats ok. How long were you married.
I reply
10 years.
Date replies. I can understand that.
So we carry on with the date.
Rest of the date I would crack up laughing every once in awhile and then just say something funny.
What are the odds.
As I know she picked niece up after work 4 cities over... Timing....
That was too funny.
LOL I just realized that now she knows the answer to her question on wed. Asking if I was busy on Saturday. And I replied. Yes I am busy.
Great story bug. It really sounds like one of those "meant to be" scenarios.
How satisfying! It is like what we dream of...for our ex to run into us on a date! And now when you say "I have plans" to ladybug she will suspect "date" haha!
So will you be seeing this woman again?
That was too funny.
LOL I just realized that now she knows the answer to her question on wed. Asking if I was busy on Saturday. And I replied. Yes I am busy.
Cutter, as I said on the alt, just proves my theory of Gods twisted sense of humour ...
You handled it well mate. Bet it felt goooooood?
I've yet to have my 'date near my W' scenario ... 13 days and counting
Ohhhhh the fun .... what is the point of being a LBS if you can't have a bit of fun when you finally detach? And if that happens to be at the W's expense then it's a shame, but as Denis Leary says 'sh*t happens, buy a hard hat'
Heh... I am still cracking up over it. I just add it to the surreal life I feel like I live. That was a movie moment for sure. I do wonder what she thought seeing that. But hey she has had another person in her life for 8 months now. Now she knows I am out there dating as she has seen it with her 2 eyes.
It was a good date. Even with that little moment. I told my date ( the writer ) that I was a little uncomfortable with that moment. So we talked about it for about 10 minutes. And she was cool with it all. Actually asked a few questions and validated my feelings. Which I am glad that I can express without any shame. I was also very proud to state that I kept my vows intact up to the separation.
It was a good date. Nothing physical. Just good conversation and good food and good company. In two weeks we are going out again. This time it is a day trip to pick up my race kit , drive the race route and then walk around a little town and look at the shops and then its lunch at a brew pub. Sounds like another good date to me.
But. I still crack up on those odds....
(((Cutter)))
I love the OMG moment!
Good for you my friend - Good. For. You.
I am happy you had a wonderful time and wish you nothing but the best on your next date!
Wow, great story.
One we wish we could all have (besides reconciling, I guess)
Your date sounds like a good person, with good activities planned.
How are you meeting these lovely ladies to date? friends of friends?
Good on you!
Hi Aver. I meet these people via friends or by going out and doing stuff.
Live a good life... See what happens.
I broke down tonight for a few minutes.
I was ticked at myself for feeling guilty on Saturday. WTF? I am now separated and out on a nice day date. And here I am feeling like I am breaking a vow. Meanwhile she has stepped out of the marriage for 8 months. I have not even touched anyone's hand.
Lets hope its a short cycle.
Cutter, I have an idea as to why you might have felt guilty.
You have been married to ladybug for the last 10 years. You have been legally separated for a few weeks. It's like the phantom leg when your leg has been amputated...
okay does that make any sense?
The guilt is not rational but it is hard to not "feel married" KWIM???
Thanks Newmama.
Tonight I will be showing civil , nice and grace while at that concert. If she decides to pull any OM in my face crap. I am hoping she does not. But she may still feel that my life is a game and I have no idea what Saturday did to her. But I will be on guard. If they come over.
I am just going to politely say " Ladybug, Please show some respect for our 14 year relationship and 10 year marriage and go stand somewhere else with OM. I wish to enjoy the show with my friend here and not feel uncomfortable. Thankyou"
Well something like that.
Its funny how life is throwing each of us in front of each others paths. The house across the street sold as well. So now the emails are coming in about the house selling and how we need to meet up to finalize everything. I think I liked being in the dark better.
It all leads up to that May 2nd wedding... Jack and Jills , selling of the house. My end date ( which I think I passed.. I always said April but now I feel it was that night we signed the papers). The symphony is beginning to build now.
So my friends I may need to do some leaning over the next few weeks.
Take care.
Enjoy the concert. You're right, the expiration date was the night you signed the papers. All that's left is sour milk, pour it down the drain and go to the grocery store. I hear skimmed milk is good.
Do as much leaning as you need to, just don't fall over.
EDIT: And while we're on the milk analogy... make sure it's pasteurized (past your eyes)
Cutter, your emotions make so much sense to me. Your vows were sacred to you and you lived those values out for ten years. As things get more and more final, you will be going through different stages of the grieving process.
Lean away my friend! We all do that for each other and we all need it. Take care!
Cutter I can relate.
I am now divorced but still feel guilty even looking at other women.
I hate being single with a married man's concience. It feels foreign to me. Not sure what to do.
Got on one of the dating sites and posted there that I was recently divorced. Then realized that this would turn the girls away so had to re-think my strategy.
I just realized that its now been five months since...nevermind.
Could somebody please finish amputating my phantom leg?
Kudos on your date. Hope to be there soon with you.
I see this all as a good thing.
I understand what I am feeling. I am not afraid to express it and work through it.
I am not afraid to talk about it.
I see this as progress in my emotional growth.
Cutter,
This is PROGRESS!!!! Everyday you work through things in an empowering way is progress. Just being able to label your emotions is a big deal. You are an amazing man!! I think the "guilt" speaks to your high moral standards. Its an attribute.
Just remember - 10 years of making sure you handled yourself with honor around other women is a long habit to break. Cut yourself some slack and don't feel bad about the "guilty" feelings.
T
This attitude is totally great, CB.
You are moving thru this process really well. Acknowledging, owning, and tolerating these feelings--yes, that's the growth part!
May I ask more about this concert? something you have planned a date for, and LB let you know she was going, too? Gearing myself up for the inevitable event-in-common.
I think you are handling the separation and new dating with great grace. You are having nice day dates, nothing too wild and heavy--nice for you and nice for the women you are seeing. Not too much pressure or expectations on anyone.
Again, good on ya!
Cutter- I agree. And thanks for your continued support on my thread.
Life is truly a funny thing and loves to zig and zag. Like I said, you are a Prince of a man and I see only good things for you,.
How did this go, CB?
I have been thinking about you.
Be well.
Thanks Aver.
She did not go. She sent an email that afternoon to myself and my friend the groom and said that something came up and had two tickets to sell if we could sell them. So groom and I went to the show with no distractions. Good show. Not much more to add as its alls quiet on the western front. Went out with niece last night and asked her about the bump in. She laughed and said they went shopping and what was the odds and that was that. Not a thing about ladybug was spoken again. She was rather reserved and quiet. Not like her normal self. But I chalk that up to being up since 5:30 and not sleeping well due to dealing with grief over the death of her grandfather.
All in all.... Very quiet in the land of the cutter bug.
I need a break anyways
How do youfeel about having contact with ladybug now...I mean she is allowed to email you or call you directly now, right? So is that weird? How are you feeling about just still talking/seeing her now that you are separated?
How do youfeel about having contact with ladybug now...I mean she is allowed to email you or call you directly now, right? So is that weird? How are you feeling about just still talking/seeing her now that you are separated?
So newmama. How did you know this was what was on my mind all this week?
I have spent a bit of time here on this thought.
And it is one that requires a detailed answer. Which I will write out later.
I had to save her today with the wedding party. She called crying and said she needed to vent over some issues there and apologized for calling and venting. So I had to do some legwork for her with the wedding party. Which I said to her was ok. And that I would take care of it. Which I did. It was just a downpayment on a hall for a jack and jill.
Did I need to do this. No.
But I did anyways and I am wondering why I did. This is her mess she created. And here I am helping her out. Again this week.
I was asked this week if I am happy.
I replied. No. I am not happy I am surviving and getting by. But that I know will be alright.
I still have a little love ( as I mentioned earlier this week) for ladybug. And I have locked it away.
It hurts to think of the life she has picked. And I am guessing that a little part of me has not given up on her yet. And it hurts to know I can be completely done with her.
I find my thoughts very confusing. I am not in limbo. But I am moving. I do not understand exactly why I still love this woman. I do not understand exactly why I can live the rest of my life without her. Yet here I am helping her. And she does not deserve my help. I fear that she thinks we will become friends. For I do not want that. Civil and nice and thats that.
Cutter is confused.
But I did anyways and I am wondering why I did. This is her mess she created. And here I am helping her out.
I fear that she thinks we will become friends. For I do not want that.
Contradictory?
Hi yes it is. I am confused with what is the high road and what is not. I would like some advice
Out of the funk. 4 days this one lasted....
Cutter, please take time to write out a detailed answer on your feelings! It will help you!
Ok here is the short answer to what is happening to you (IMO):
Detachment is going away...retachment is occuring due to the contact. You say you have tucked "a little love" aside. Cutter dahling, after 10 years of marriage it can't be "little!" What I mean is the love is stronger and more powerful than we realize due to the deep bond of attachment we establish with our spouses.
If you want to be done done, no more contact. IF you want to see what happens and believe you can date others while being her friend and WHEN she breaks up with the dr. she will look you up, consider that side too.
But the least painful path is one of AVOIDANCE. I know this 100%!
(((Cutterbug)))
Newmama - I talked to Cutter in the alt this am... same thoughts!
Cutter!!! Us girls know things!
HUGS
If I was in Cutters Sitch I would be very confused.
He still loves her IIRC as I do my XW but like me an OM is a dealbreaker.
OTOH I know that in reconciliation you have to have 1)Respect and 2)a frienship at first.
Mind you that that Cutter is light years ahead of me in his sitch as I am still a mess and a noob so I really have nothing to offer anyone.
I just wonder when it is appropriate and beneficial for R to become friends and when its not. That's the $65,000 question.
oops I didn't mean to imply that you would need to stay in contact with her in order for her to come back to you...
And I don't mean to "encourage" the thought...it just is something I never stopped believing would happen.
I have never ever believed it was okay to stay friends with ex boyfriends or husbands! It is too dangerous. They could be led on and hurt, you could be led on and hurt, your new boyfriend/wife could get hurt...so contrary to my current actions, I just cut the ties and go.
BUT if you don't want to be done with your ex, a friendship is good AS LONG as you don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend and neither do they!
doesn't this make sense?
so maybe don't be friends with her while she is with OM? And tell her?
I will not be her friend. I did not marry her to be her friend. This is a cycle that I am going through. And the events over the last few weeks have been difficult. I really think that she has no concept anymore of what an adult relationship is and is a self centred condescending b*t*h. The bride is going down to the city next week for a conference. She is staying with ladybug for 3 days to see if they can bond before the wedding. Ladybug said 2 more months and then this wedding stuff is all over. The rest of the wedding party say 2 more months then this is all over. Poor bride. And what does ladybug ask bride to bring down for 3 days of bonding. Bathingsuit. OM is out of town for a few days so they can go over there and sit in a hot tub. Oh the irony. Wedding bonding at the adultery den.
No clue. And this is the woman I helped. I am frustrated with myself over this. Next time I am saying no. Deal with your own mess. But I will keep with being civil, nice and showing grace.
Other news... 2 good runs on the weekend. And 1 week to my first half marathon.
Will you keep the contact? Do you agree that contact=retachment?
Hi CB,
Walked Queen West this aft. Had me some Chippy's (very good, thx for the suggestion) and walked all the way to Dufferin (which is where my condo is being built). Not sure if this your hood.. but if it is, I was enjoying a stroll with my D4 in that area today. Good luck on the half marathon if I don't speak to you this week!
;0)
W2G
By speak I mean "type" or "write".. just for clarification.
Will you keep the contact? Do you agree that contact=retachment?
I am going to keep contact until the house is sold. I do not think contact has equalled reattachment. But I will think about it.
w2g
Those fries are great. And nice location for the condo. Up and coming area.... And so close to Chippy's Lots of nice restaurants and shops in the area.
Some speculations to bounce your way:
1. When you fixed your W's mess, that wasn't really about friendship, that something that you did out of a sense of obligation/being needed (I assume).
2. When your W talks about friendship, I don't know what she's thinking, but I assume that you believe that the friendship will come with obligations and expectations.
3. I agree with you that fixing stuff for her is probably not helpful for you right now, even if feeling needed by her may feel like a tiny rapprochement.
4. Any future friendship would have to be both realistic (low expectations) and nourishing to you (feels good, adds positive energy to your life). That may not be possible, of course.
Flowermom.
1. Obligation. Cleaning up her mess as being a horrible maid of honour. I blame myself for doing that. Part of my giver personality. I have helped her out 2 times now with this wedding. The obligation would fall towards both women though. Bride and groom are 2 of my closest friends. Next time I will be unavailable to put out her fire on the bridge. Lesson learned. It sets me back and makes me rather pissed off that i am covering for her lack of responsibilities here.
2. Ladybug has not mentioned friendship since the days of the bomb. I realize that I am setting the ground work for a bail out one way friendship here by my actions with the lunch after funeral and wedding. I do not want to become two lost souls swimming in a fishbowl.
3. Sometimes I actually think she set up this issue to contact me and see if I am still kicking. I was a sucker for the tears. Lesson learned.
4. No future friendship. I was her husband. I will be nothing more/less than that. It would not be fair on myself to continue such a toxic relationship.
Thank you my friend
Cutter,
I think you've crossed some big hurdles this weekend. Its always good to self evaluate! Don't beat yourself up for how you handled this - you aren't perfect!! (Sorry for the buzz kill
)
You have handled everything really well so you are allowed to have a mis-step now and then. The good news is you realized you behaved in a way that you don't want to; and you know what you will do next time.
Beyond that - you are amazing and should think of yourself as such!!
T
You sound really clear cutter. That's all any of us can hope for
Yes, you've got it.
Not friends. You were H/W.
If you help her in future, it is just what any good Samaritan would do. Beyond that, nope.
Geez, I hope this wedding thing can be over SOON. The tension is killing me, can't imagine what it is doing to you!
Cutter, do we join Gardener in Surviving the Big D?
I feel like that is more where I belong than Infidelity/Jealousy, etc. Trying to move past all that and into whatever my life will become.
not yet aver.... Were moving forward but when we go there we go there. G man is not there.....
You go there when you say one day.... H.S. I am good ....
If not stay here.... I am staying here. Its where I belong right now.
I just posted in my sitch about remaining friends w/ W then I read your POV reg nothing more/less- you were her H. Also rings true w/ me what you said about a toxic R.
It is too soon for me to come to any conclusions on what I will do...I hate that you are where you are, but it is helpful to me to see someone out in front of where I am.
Thank you for your support and I too am here for you.
Talk to you on the alt about meeting up in april. Gnosis says I need to shake your hand. I say we need to have a pint.
Yea I did not marry ladybug to be her friend. But I will never hate her. Life is life. We keep moving forward.
Plus if your smart. I do hope I am.... You will learn a ton of lessons here and live a long fulfilling life. What happens, happens. And it all happens for a reason.
Some times you need to take a few punches in the throat. Get up and dust yourself off and smile and go. 'I am surviving the worst thing that can ever happen to someone.'
Then one day you will say. 'I survived and thrived the worst thing that ever happened to me.'
And in the process make some very good friends.
I agree- and look forward to meeting you.
This truly is the worst thing I think someone can go through- sure there are amputations, cancer, etc- but this, to me, is a combination of the worst things someone could have to survive.
I've said it a thousand times, and maybe it's still me in my fog- but I am somewhat upset that we do not have children b/c I would like to have some interaction w/ this woman for the rest of my life...call me stupid, sadistic, or just a romantic.
Hey Maynard,
I think all of us who don't have kids have those same stupid sadistic thoughts - you are not alone my friend!!
Just keep in mind - if these people were good enough to be in our lives forever they would - somehow. I think there are bigger and better reasons for that... just don't know what they are!
T
Good to know Talia-
I hate those thoughts b/c I realize I shouldn't need to take hostages but rather volunteers.
It really does suck though- the LBS is the one still in love or capable of love, or effort...the way I love someone is not something that changes over night or impossible to restrengthen.
Thats a good thing Maynard. Keep loving. Shows your strength of character that you can still love after all you have gone through. I think that when you come out of all this. Your love for people will have grown leaps and bounds. As will the maturity of that love you share.
Well thats what I think anyways....
me thinks you're right...
And the same for you- mature love- something that will take YEARS to fully realize, and lots of overcoming obstacles as a team...
I've said it a thousand times, and maybe it's still me in my fog- but I am somewhat upset that we do not have children b/c I would like to have some interaction w/ this woman for the rest of my life...call me stupid, sadistic, or just a romantic.
I have thanked God
literally every day that H & I do not have kids. I have a close friend in RL who is going thru the same thing w/his W. and seeing how that goes reinforces how
lucky I am that there aren't children involved.
The children issue is a tough one.
I always wanted to have children. And to thank God for not having them. Its just such a horrible thought. I have thought it a few times.
Well now I have an opportunity to have children. ( Either my own or someone else's children to love as my own)
And its an opportunity that I do not want to pass up. If it presents itself down the road.
A very interesting topic of conversation. Children vs. no children.
We have the bonus of fully cutting the cords. Where as those with children can cut the cord but will always have some form of interaction throughout the years.
I would encourage anyone who truly wants to be parent to follow that wish
, whether that's with biological children or otherwise. People who choose parenthood with their hearts find that it brings much joy.
We have the bonus of fully cutting the cords. Where as those with children can cut the cord but will always have some form of interaction throughout the years.
So true. I envy those who can look forward to one day having a clean slate after D.
First big goal completed. Run a half marathon. First race ever.
2h18m.
I thanked those who helped me here. When I crossed the finish line. Pictures on alt.
Lots of love. I am so proud.
FANTASTIC~ And you started training 6 months ago? Geesh, it is amazing what we can do in our lives in just 6 months time!!!!
Yaay, CB!
I was wondering today when your 1/2 was--was it today?
Excellent time! Excellent goal achievement!
What's next on the list??
run run meditate run run meditate
Fantastic cutter!! I hope you are celebrating right now. Way to GAL...
Next on list is book vacation (approved today at work )
sell house.
Which adds.
Find new place to live
and get me a truck.
I have 3 more races coming up.
going to book another half in May or June.
Aver I have been thinking very much about moving out of here
I have talked to daybyday about it and P17.
Given it some thought
Since I am not going back into the marriage. I am legally separated according to the law.
My mind and my heart feel the same.
congrats on running the half marathon!!! And you had great time! I am trying to motivate myself to get back to running. My friends and I used to all run the Army 10 miler every year...my last time running was 2007 :-(
tx for checking in on my thread- saw your pic on the alt...brrrrrrrrr
see you soon
Looking for a silver lining today? Sorry, it's south of the border...only GOLD up here!
Yep all about hockey
Hey where is that picture at Maynard? Would love to put a face to the people here.
I would put mine up here if the forums supported and accepted it.
you have to go to the alt
divorce busting FB
OK, I have subscribed to Michelles DB FB page but not familiar with alt. What is alt? Sorry for the hijack.
look for cutter bug
Congratulations Cutter!!!! Enjoy your personal victory!
T
I have retired cutterbug on the forums. That part of my life is now over. I am now known as chatterbug. I have the gift of the gab. Who would have guessed an Irish Man could talk and talk and talk...
I am at peace with the end of my marriage. I am at peace with my past. I have surrounded myself with people who I love and who love me.
I am using DB and the knowledge and wisdom here on all my relationships in my life. And I have noticed that many good relationships with friends have improved leaps and bounds. My new friendships with my DB friends are so special to me. My support group, my friends. I smile and get tear eyed when I think of the unconditional love you good people have given me. I will continue to give my unconditional love to you as well.
So now where do I go?
Over the last week I have realized that my heart and mind are in the same spot at the same time. Not just the heart or mind. I have 3 more cords to cut with ladybug.
1. A jack and Jill this saturday ( pre wedding party )
2. Wedding on May 2nd
3. Sell house.
I am very proud to say that I did not close my heart and become bitter. I actually believe that this time in my life has laid the foundations for me to improve and survive and thrive in the next half of my life. I will battle complacency and seek help when I falter. I will show my emotions for I am proud of who I am and I am proud to be a man. I have found my nuts. And I will continue to learn about boundaries for the rest of my life. I also know now that I will be able to freely give my heart away again. I can laugh again. That feels so good hearing laughter coming from me. I understand the risks that come with that choice. But one day that will be a choice that I freely make. And if it does not work out. I know I will be fine. I came here to save my marriage. But something better happened. I saved myself. And I thank this site and the people here from the bottom of my heart and soul. And special thank-yous to my close friends on the Alt.
THANKYOU
So where do I go?
Well I am going to move over to the big D one day soon. Perhaps when 2 of the 3 cords get cut.
Life is Good. I have a smile on my face. My eyes are open. And a big heart.
Love ya, Chatter!
You make us... better!
(((CB)))
Love you my friend
Cutter / Chatter ... the smelly stuff with the W never really ends does it
There is always one more thing that you have to do that they are around or one more thing that they will be attending or one more friend on Facebook that they try to add
Will we ever finally get peace and closure?
It's good to see you moving on. I will be joining you over at the Big D soon.
I came here to save my marriage. But something better happened. I saved myself.
CB, it's 5:30 am here and you made me cry - I know the next chapter in your life will be great, as will mine.
Take care my friend
CBug, I really enjoy reading your writing!
CB- Yeah on changes for the better - you are one amazing man!!
T
Chatter, you sound so clear. It helps me to open my mind to the possibility of one day being OK with D.
Yeah, Chatterbug, thanks for choking me up.
I will copy and print out your post. You have succeeded in the DB'ing--not in the saving your marriage, which I guess we all know is a long shot. But in becoming the best man that CB can be.
You have learned so much about yourself--what you need, what you can give, what you want, how to love. Plus you are a kick-butt runner.
Inspiration, inspiration. Thank you.
I want to move out of Infidelity/Jealousy ASAP, so let's go do it! It's not infidelity when the first R is over; and in all my mixed up feelings, jealousy hasn't been high on the list.
Been schooling all week long. Going to get my Redhat admin certification in 3 months. Still living the PMA dream from my run. Taking a break from running. Going to start running again on saturday.
Alas, the world conspires to bring down the PMA. A cold has come on. I think I have enough PMA to battle it.
Either way. Going to my first Lacrosse game on Friday night. A friends 30th birthday party ( oh to be 30 again ) so it will be a guys night out. I hope the cold has retreated enough by then. And then Saturday night I have that jack and jill.
During the day I will be taking care of a good buddy. His best friend's small child passed away so he is just an emotional wreck. So I will be giving him unconditional love.
Unconditional love. Such a beautiful concept. I understand it now. And I am proud to show it.
I have been making a new mix cd. This one theme is based on inner strength. I have been making it in a style that is completely new to me. I am letting the songs come to me. And it is becoming one of the most beautiful mix's I have made in my life. I am going to leak out one song from it. Such a beautiful song. It came to me today.
Here are the lyrics
I don't know if you notice anything different
It's getting dark and it's getting cold and the nights are getting long
And I don't know if you even notice at all
That I'm long gone
And the things that keep us apart
Keep me alive
And the things that keep me alive
Keep me alone
This is the thing
I don't know if you notice anything missing
Like the leaves on the trees or my clothes on the floor
And I don't know if you even notice at all
'Cause I was real quiet when I closed the door
And the things that keep us apart
Keep me alive
And the things that keep me alive
Keep me alone
This is the thing
And I don't know if you notice anything different
I don't know if you even notice at all
This is the thing
Here is the song
Fink - This is the thing
CB- thanks for checking in on me.
I was really ill and overwhelmed w/ stress...no worries though.
Looks like your doing well...keep it up
Chatter -
I am continuously in awe of the transformation you have undertaken. I didn't know you at the beginning of your situation, but can only enjoy following your growth.
Now... enough of that sappy sh*t!
Get rid of that cold!!! Vitamin C, maybe a vaporizer at night, and some chicken noodle soup!!!
LOVE the song! I have it on in the background now.
mindfull
As us men age we get more sappy....
Women become more like men
mindfull
As us men age we get more sappy....
Women become more like men
How very VERY true ... that cracked me up!
OK Everyone - call to help - Pearl has mentioned this a couple times and Its finally getting to me. My friend TryTryAgain has been getting bad DBing advice for a while and I've been posting to counter -
Everyone get on TTA's thread and provide GOOD DBing advice - this person needs to see what DB is really about!!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...514#Post1951514TTA - You have been doing a good job of taking the few nuggets out of that advice and then discarding the rest. I am NOT trying to be horrible on here - but this is getting ridiculous. His advice is NOT DB - its important that people on here get the support this board is MEANT to offer. Mind reading, catering to your WAS, giving in, denying your feelings, and doing what you think your spouse would want based on what you think they are thinking is NOT DB. Thank you for posting as you have been lately - I don't think I'm the end all be all for advice, but I know bad advice when I see it. I'm hoping this call will get others posting for you so you can see that there is consistency in what I'm recommending.
Lets support each other the RIGHT way!
T
mindfull
As us men age we get more sappy....
Women become more like men
How very VERY true ... that cracked me up!
Evolution at its finest!!!
CBug, I really enjoy reading your writing!
Thats cause you and I are the same
Just different sexes.
Mindfull thinks so too
bug, our national sport is so manly... not that I'm one to be talking about sports
oh, and real men aren't afraid to use a neti pot
thanks for the song...
I have 2 neti pots. Used it for my allergies... Allergies are gone.
Side Note:
CB - thanks for the reminder to apologize on TTA's thread. It was important to do, and your balanced approach helped me see my reaction as just that - venting that had no place here.
Thanks~
Originally Posted By: newmama
CBug, I really enjoy reading your writing!
Thats cause you and I are the same
Just different sexes.
Mindfull thinks so too
YOU MAN! ME WOMAN! (lol!)
I think you are just farther ahead...like THOUSANDS OF MILES...in your journey! I think I read your reflections and want to be there, if that makes sense! some day...you'll see!
I think overall you have maintained a steady course with some WTF moments (thank God you're human!)and have been brave which means you faced your pain. Embraced the suck, as you and P say!
Embraced the suck, as you and P say!
I can't take credit for that ... that's PDT's saying!
Thanks CB for your support!!!! Thanks for your insight to TTA - BIG HUGS!!!
T
CB is taking the tour on the road. Yay!
First vacation since Nov 2008. First vacation going by myself and meeting up with very good friends. So excited. Warm temperatures. Ocean and Gulf... Woohoo. PMA keeps rolling.
Sorry Maynard. I am flying now. It was 4 days driving vs 2 bills... So flying won.
Now this is suck I can embrace
Your welcome T
Woohoo! You deserve a great holiday (((CB)))!
Warm temperatures. Ocean and Gulf... Woohoo. PMA keeps rolling.
Jealous
. Have a great trip, you deserve it.
Thanks Flow. I hope your ok.
Opinion added. Thanks for your insight - I've quoted you twice today on other people's threads. Your thoughts about passive/aggressive controlling behavior when LBS is doing something only for them has helped me understand something that has been bothering me about MY H.... He does the same thing!!
Wonderful stuff CB!!!
T
A few updates.
Jack N Jill was completed. No issues.
A few awkward moments. No butterflies. It looked like she was faking having a good time. I had a great time. Friends came over and checked in on me through out the night. I carried my phone with me for the first 20 minutes just incase I had to make a phone call for support. But I did not have to at all. Looking at her I thought she was real skinny now. And I thought that woman was my wife. But not any more. I did not feel sad or happy with those thoughts. Just a peace with them. I was civil and nice with her during our brief conversations through out the night. MIL and FIL where there tending bar so I got some hugs in.
Nephew was at the door so we hung out. And friends where everywhere so I enjoyed conversation , dancing won a ton of prizes to boot. Luck of the Irish. And Irish eyes were smiling. Only real awkward times where when she stood beside me for 5 minutes and when she had to tie a balloon on my leg for a game. ( I felt very awkward and a bit nauseated at the same time )
I silently closed the door some time ago.
Thats all my updates.
P.S.
For my Canuck DB friends
Gold old Hockey Game
CB, I'm glad the j & j went well. You sound detached and dignified...
Luck of the Irish. And Irish eyes were smiling.
Haha! I imagined you saying this with an extra thick accent!
Only real awkward times where when she stood beside me for 5 minutes and when she had to tie a balloon on my leg for a game.
Yeah...I would think that would be excruciatingly akward! Did you just let your mind go to a different place?
You know something? Going to a wedding and having to see your ex spouse is almost up there with toughest post marriage experiences...the only worse I think would be seeing them be with another date. My point is that you survived and thrived during it! HUGE accomplishment!
don't you mean
"Luck of the Irish, and ME Irish eyes were smilin'"
lol
CB,
Handled with dignity and strength - as usual
T
Hey Cutter/Chatter BUUUUUUUUUUUG!!
boo i was almost on the third page LOL
That was on my list of goals... DOH
This is how I am today
Birds sing after a storm; why shouldn't people feel as free to delight in whatever sunlight remains to them?
Rose Kennedy (1890 - 1995)
Quite a quote...requires some contemplation...
Hope alls well w/ you
Must be something in that CB, she lived to 105 !
I was wondering just this morning how the J&J and wedding went.
You were amazing, as usual. I have to hand it to you.
I'm glad that's over with--the suspense was killing me.
And did you flirt with any cute bridesmaids? It sounds like you made the rounds in fine style.
No flirting with anyone at the J&J. Surrounded by friends.
Great Man
I have to kill this thread ... Stop posting.
I have to kill this thread ... Stop posting.
My new home.... Please drop by.... Not quite Kara's Place or the craziness of Handfull or the hope and determination of newmama's
A mixture of all of them combined.... Toss in some shoe talk everyonce in awhile for the ladies and I will be spinning some good tunes along the way.
DbD, P17 , Newmama. You three are my bread and butter. I love you all so much. Thank you so much for everything and any time you come calling I will answer. From you I rediscovered Love, trust , friendship. Unconditional love.
Aver. Found herself and I am glad. I can see it in her posts now. Soon Aver will realize it herself.
Puppy , Sandie , Gucci thanks for keeping me honest.
Serenity keep writing. Its beautiful Pandoras box
Mindful, Gardner, Rocked , Hope, Both Luvs, Flower, Pearl, B65 , G450 and Talia. Such good people may your dreams become your reality.
Maynard. Love ya brother. Keep fighting for your survival. Your a good man with a kind soul.
Gnu....
Killing bats and threading the needle. Good man.
courts0818 Thank you so much for your words back when i was lost. I will never forget them.
undrdg miss ya...
Those I did not mention. Kudos... its hard enough remember all these names as it is... I am a man... and memory of a man.
Enough of the love in.
THIS THREAD IS DEAD....