Hi, all,
I'm new but have been lurking for several months and have been inspired by the stories and threads on here. I have been on a couple other website forums and they both help but one thinks I am crazy for thinking he's coming back. The other was a tad too forceful if I didn't do things 100% the way they said (i.e. I exposed the A to our families and friends but refuse to expose his A to his work...and the people started snubbing me and said I didn't really want my marriage bad enough).
Anyway, besides getting support from you all, the other reason why I am starting a thread is that maybe someone will read it one day who is in the same unfortunate circumstances and it will help to keep them patient...hopeful...and maybe I will have a "happy ending".
Okay so my story :SHORT version- WH started an EA last summer with a coworker and it turned to a PA. DDays were Jan 1 when he said he wanted to work on us, but then took it underground and I found out Mar 17. So I kicked him out b/c he couldn't choose between us and didnt want to stop contacting her. OUr baby was born July 6 (HE WANTED to start a family back in October!) and he has mentioned wanting to come back, thinking we should D, all over the place. Currently he has moved out now for 8.5 months. I let him see his baby boy whenever he wants because I am not going to put our son in the middle (been there growing up) and I want him to bond with him.
My deadline for him is Jan 1 but he doesn't know. I will file for D if he doesn't come back by then.
LONG story: last summer (08) husband started becoming a good friend to OW from work while she was going through marriage problems.She is very sexually aggressive, meaning constantly sprinkles sexual innuendos in coversation, pretends to give blowjobs while eating, brags about her sexual moves, wears suggestive clothing. As she gets to know him, she tells him how her dad raped her repeatedly while growing up, about her drug phase, etc. She has a 3 year old. Her ex-husband went to jail (is out now)for having sex with a 15 year old.
My husband felt sorry for her and wanted to help be a positive influence on her. (at first) But turns out they have some interests in common--video games, some rock music, a love of rollercoasters, OMG he thinks he found his soulmate!!!
Meanwhile, I was aware of their friendship but trying not to be the insecure jealous type. I told him I was uncomfortable with all the text messages and phone calls she was making; they stopped for awhile.
October (08) comes and my H tells me he is ready to start a family. Guess what--we got pregnant the first time we tried! I find out on Halloween and he isn't overjoyed...but politely happy. Over the next couple of months he starts acting distant, questioning why we got married, says we would be great at co-parenting, and I did not put 2 and 2 together! I thought he was having cold feet about the pregnancy.
So finally on New Year's, things come out...he says he's in love with her, that he didn't mean for it to happen. I make him choose and he reluctantly chose me. We try counseling but they aren't so good with infidelity (I was told to put on a sexy negligie to get his libido going...)He wasn't coming around so I break into our cell phone account online (he had changed the password) on March 17 while he is on a work trip. Her number is all over the place. He had been deleting phone records on his cell phone when I checked.
This time when I give the ultimatum he is confused so I make him leave for a couple of days and then I leave for a few more..we had a new counselor appt. scheduled for the following week. He said at first he wanted to go to "make his heart match his brain" b/che knew that staying with me, his pregnant wife, was the right thing to do but his heart was saying to go for this relationship where he'd never felt the passion like he did with her...what if? what if..gasp, sputter, shake...she's his one true love that he has been waiting for his whole life?!
Okay sorry this is so long. But he moved out,we started divorce paperwork but never finished it and he said he wasfine with that. I stopped talking or seeing him except for our labor classes and dr. appts. He moves in for 3 weeks to be with our baby who was born first week in July. He admits that he's thought of returning but he made too much of a mess. I assure him that my family and friends want us to reconcile and we could--he is a good person who made a bad mistake. A few days later he says he's not ready but he knows it's wrong to expect me to wait for him.
I don't know what to think but then I discovered this website. He comes over 6/7 days per week, spends all day Saturday and half of Sunday here. About 4 weeks ago he brings up the D paperwork and says he just has to fill it out. I cry and talk about how sad it will be for our son.
A couple of weeks later he brings over the parenting plan we drafted in the spring when I thought we were divorcing. He doesn't take it out of the bag but says we need to start preparing for him to take him one day per week. I am torn on this; we aren't divorced, what do I do? But I agreed to let him take our baby for 4 hours on Saturday. My only reasoning is that he can start to experience the divorced dad's life and I KNOW he will be taking our baby to see OW. But I am still wanting to see what will happen over the holidays...I just haven't done a dark plan B yet because I wanted him to bond with our newborn AND NOT do it at her house. All of this time, he has been coming over here.
So now I think I can try this until January and then, I must do a dark plan B and file for D....I guess.
I should add some details...been together 5+ years, "married" 4+ (if this year counts). WH has been a very good husband. I have been a pretty good wife; the LM dropped off a little there due to exhaustion and I had a (benign) fibroid tumor that was wreaking havoc on my hormones but had it removed.My libido returned, I lost 30 pounds,then he started befriending HER.
We agreed to let me stay home for a year to be with our baby.
So since August, I have been trying to GAL, not discussing our relationship, been cheerful and confident, working on areas that need improvement, and I forgot to add that I told him I did not want the D (when it was brought up 2 weeks ago) and it was his decision entirely.
I'd like to know just what sort of commitment has your H made to your child before and after birth that he thinks he has any real input or say into his upbringing. Looks to me like he's been an absent father, not just an absent H, so beyond a minimal level of supervised visitation, what on Earth makes him think he is due an entire day with a child who is too young to be separated from its mother?
Before anyone says anything, I am a father of two and a staunch advocate for shared parenting. But given that it appears from your story that your S's father had already made his mental and spiritual exit from the family prior to his birth -- probably even before his conception -- I don't think he has any believable claims to want more than the absolute minimum and age-appropriate visitation with this baby. And as the child matures, I think the onus is upon your H to prove he's anything more than a (dare I say it) sperm donor. Actions speak louder than words.
Another thing...only 3 people support me letting him see his son all the time. We work out a monthly schedule. I am gone a lot of the time whenhe is here, but then I also have gone with him and our baby on outings to show what life will be like if we stay together.
He helps take care of chores, brings me things he knows I like,
is a really good dad and is so crazy about our son.He was the one crying when discussing the parenting plan/ divorce a couple of weeks ago. I stayed calm and dry eyed. He said he couldn't imagine only seeing him 3-4 days each week.
I am prepared to enforce a traditional visitation schedule according to our parenting plan if he files OR when I file in January.
I should file by then if he isn't back, right? He moved out 3/31.
Also, back in July he admitted he loved me so much and always will. He admitted his relationship with her had its problems, but all do. (to which I asked "then why did you leave me?" no reply)
He cries whenever the D talk comes up which has only been brought up 3 times since March and never by me.
He hinted that she was not supportive of the amount of time he sees his son/ is over here.
Now I do feel confused about letting him take our son on Saturdays 7-11 when we aren't divorced...but I still want him to experience a glimpse of the future if he doesn't wake the f up!!!
The fantasy in me thinks maybe he wants her to meet him before he breaks it off with her( he has never taken our baby anywhere without me--his choice---and says he wants to stay away from work right now b/c of the swine flu outbreaks.)
I also envision Thanksgiving taking a toll when he celebrates without us. His family 100% disapproves of what he's doing and his brother in law left his sister and their kids for another woman, only to discover after 9 months that she wasn't who he imagined and he has been trying to get back with my SIL ever since! (been amost 3 years now)
I am rambling....I just am trying so hard to be patient and not be a bitch to him.
Hi, Nocodeblues,
just saw your reply but I was typing another at the same time.
The parenting plan is based on what the experts' recommendations for parents who want 50% custody. It doesn't have overnight visits until baby is 6 months.
I have been trying soooo hard to think of what is best for our baby and not be selfish. As for H being a good dad, I know he is not living here, but he totally takes care of him, plays with him, feeds him, bathes him when he is over. So I can't say that he is a total deadbeat dad. Just not true.
Letting him take our baby 4 hours on Saturday is in the legal paramaters if we were divorced or legally separated. I am open to hearing ideas about this, I just wanted to explain the rationale. Thanks!!
Hi, Newmama,
It is good your H is showing that he wants to be an active father in your child's life. Still, there are consequences to one's actions, and his decision to seek the end of the M even before the child was born does not weigh in his favor. From my viewpoint, his pursuit of an A and the threat that is undoubtedly having on the child's prospects for family and security, just tells me he is more concerned for himself than for anyone else, including his own child.
We can all pray, however, that your H will look at the impending consequences of his selfish actions and decide that what he really wants is to be in line with what is truly best for his family, and to not abandon it, which is what he would be doing in a D. In the end, leaving his child's mother for another person is one of the most harmful things he can do to his family.
I would suggest you do nothing for or against letting your WAH feel the full impact of what his actions & decisions are going to cause.
God willing, he will wake up before it is too late.
NCB,
do you mean I should implement the parenting plan before one of us files for D? thanks
Okay so I finally bought Divorce Remedy and just read the section on infidelity so far. She says to keep up the cheerful act and wait as long as you can because most affairs end. I know this and I am confident that theirs will, even if it is after I run out of patience.
Something I need to work on is remembering the little details about what he likes. He is very particular and I have come 90% close many times in pleasing him(i.e. got the shirt he likes but it has 2 buttons instead of 3. Got the watch he likes but the one he has had for 5 years is still working great so he tells me to give it to my dad. Got the style of bread he likes but it wasn't the right brand. You get the picture right?) On the other hand he is such a good listener and has sucha good memory that I say something once and he gets it/does it for me.
Folks, the balance was off...I was starting to take him for granted and by the time I noticed, it was too late...he had become attached to her. DR says to figure out what needs the OP may be fulfilling. Well, I think although I am always nice to him (seriously) and praise him, she was REALLY doing it in a flirtatious way, too. She is a real siren type. She probably did all kinds of crazy sex acts, although I wasn't exactly boring in bed (don't want to be crude here). She liked some of the things he did that I didn't (haunted houses, some video games, some rock music).
Okay so tonight he's coming over and I leave to go play Bunco with my friends but we have time for dinner first. So I am making one of his favorites-- french bread pizza. Lately I have been cooking all kinds of recipes that are new though (Thai peanut curry chicken,stuffed hamburgers, asian flank steak and noodles to name a few) and he has loved it (for awhile there, we were eating the same meals and he cooked 75% time while I prepped. He was also a better cook than me because he is so detail oriented!).
I also picked up some reese's peanut butter cups- DARK, and one "big cup" b /c he loves the extra filling. I found some wine on sale that he said he liked, too. Now I will just put the candy in the pantry b/c he will find it when digging around for dessert, and I'll put the wine in the fridge for another night. If he notices it, great, but I don't want to completely overdo it, right? That might come across as needy and chasing?
The other thing I really need to work on is cleaning. I'mnot a slob but I let the mail pile up on the counter or go too long between dusting and I am a messy cook. I'll clean the dishes but then there will be crumbs/sauce on the stove and the floor.
I have gained weight from pregnancy but am losing it, exercising, and have been styling my hair and wearing make up every time he sees me.
So in summary, need to notice the small things he likes and get them for him (already started and he noticed--said you don't like these..you got these just for me?), need to be cleaner (working on it), need to continue cooking the different dishes (he has noticed that and loves it!)I also need to continue complimenting him on things he does (admiration is big for him) and touch him again.
We used to hug goodbye but it just started to feel wrong to me. One of his needs is affection and I had to get rid of it because, well, he is f-ing another woman you know??? I was moving away from him when his body got too close (instinctual) so lately I am relaxing and letting his body brush against mine if it happens. I touch his arm when talking or joking around, etc. BUt it would be weird to start hugging him again, right? I haven't done it in 3 months.
wow mama, you have a lot on your plate. First thing I see is that I wouldn't let my child spend one second with him outside my house without me. The last thing you want is your infant son bonding with OW. She does not sound like the kind of person that you want your baby around and your H probably does not have the willpower to stay away from her even if he is with his son. I am all for father's rights but they have to make responsible choices. Right now, your H is not.
While DBing does include fulfilling his needs, don't take responsibility for his part. As women, we tend to immediately turn it around to blame ourselves. Be careful not to take on too much. I didn't really start to get my H attention until I was willing to work on me.
There are lots of people here with great advice. Keep posting. We're all here for you.
Thanks, Bluestar! I don't really know how to not let my H take him to OW without it pressuring or pressing the D issue. You know? I told him I wasn't ready and needed more time when he brought it to my attention a couple of weeks ago. When I said that, the next day he came over and said that he brought the parenting plan paperwork with him and said we needed to start documenting stuff. ??? I reminded him that he gets to see our son whenever he wants to and all I was saying is that I wanted more time before he took him.
On the positive, our baby is with me 98% time so I seriously doubt him bonding with OW with one Saturday visit of 2.5 hours (it will take WH 45 minutes to get there and 45 minutes to come back.)
So I don't mean tosound defensive, but what choice do I have unless I invite the D you know? If it happens, then my baby gets to see OW as often as WH gets to see him. The law does not prevent WH from taking our baby to see her.
In fact, I would have enforced the visitation long ago if I could bear the thought of OW seeing and playing with and holding our baby. BUt I couldn't so I encouraged WH to come over here and see his son as much as he wanted (plus I wanted him to bond with our baby and I wanted our baby to bond with him. I never got to know my bio dad)
So, since I am still wanting my marriage, I am not clear on the right steps to take you know? If I react, he will push the D but if I chill out, he will get tired of her and remember why he married me, RIGHT??? Or not?? This is sooooo hard.
By the way, I won most buncos!! The crazy thing is that no one in my bunco group knows what is going on. I'm not wearing my ring but I gained weight so they probably think it doesn't fit. I am lying to them, too when they ask how things are going. I am hosting in January so if we aren't back together by then I don't know what to say. It's so humiliating and I HATE PEOPLE PITYING ME!!! So thatis another reason I don't say anything.
About the dinner--he loooooved it! Kept saying thanks for making it! I tried to make a big deal over the humidifier and high chair he bought for the baby.
He isn't coming over tomorrow so the next time is Saturday when he will take our baby at 7 and drop him off at 11. In the past, he has spent 8-4 every single Saturday at our house. This time, I told him he was "welcome to stay and visit with our baby but I don't need your help with the house" so he can leave at 11. This will be the first Saturday he has spent less than 8 hours with our son in 4 months. DAMN I HOPE IT MAKES AN IMPACT!
Tomorrow will be long, but we will go to a play group in the mid morning.
Also, don't you think the holidays have got to make the WAS feel sad and reflective? Another reason why I am waiting to file for D.
wait until he experiences Thanksgiving and Christmas as a single dad. My family is a lotof fun on Christmas so he will be missing that (if he isn't back by then).
Just how fun will it be hanging with the adulteress and her sister and mom who KNOW ME and KNOW what they are doing!!!
This is his last chance. If we end up Ding then I will just tell the teachers at my school that he left me for another woman and they won't need to know that I waited for him for 8 months. Many people assume that is automatic grounds for divorce. Heck, I was ready to do it in March until I read further about affairs and the kind he is having (because again, I swear, he was a very good man and never did anything remotely terrible EVER!)
Okay I just purchased 3 phone counseling sessions! Monday at 9 will be my first one...hey I should try everything right?
Man I am nervous that he will serve me with D papers this weekend or something will come up about it. But they said many people call after they have been served so the sessions are still valuable.
I was checking out past threads in the seperated forum and the infidelity forum. I discovered that only 10-20% of the posters in the seperated forum did NOT divorce. It was 60-70% in the infidelity forum.
Does this mean that if the reason for seperation or unhappy spouse is due to an affair then the odds of recovery are better?
This experience of fighting for my marriage has been the loneliest time in my life. Several of my friends just want me to leave him and let my son grow up in a split custody situation.
Upon reflection, those people did not personally experience divorce parents; their parents are still together. They also seem to quickly forget my WH's reedemable qualities and with one fell swoop categorize him as an evil scumbag.
I see him as having something broken inside; a mental problem; he will realize what he almost gave up after he comes home. On the other hand, I know I will be okay if the worst happens. If we didn't have a child, I would be thin, working, divorced by now and dating probably.
Okay so he came and picked him up, and asked me if I thought he should take the jumper or the bouncer. I just said either would be fine but I usually take the bouncer. He took neither.
While they were gone I went for a walk to eat breakfast, dusted the whole house, cleaned the kitchen, folded and put away laundry, took a nice long shower and did my hair and makeup.
When they got back, I tried not to appear as if I was eagerly waiting (ALTHOUGH I WAS) and casually walked up to see my baby boy. WH asked if it was all right if he hung out a little longer so he could see his boy a little more. I said sure, but we were going to visit my g-ma at 1 since the calendar visit only said 7-11...I made other plans. (I lied--I do want to go to my g-ma's but we'll see if she is available)
The first thing I did was change his outfit because, sure enough, it smelled like HER. (I know her perfume from last summer when we would hang out with her). I lied and said that I had an outfit in mind for my g-ma so that was why I was changing it. (I am also going to wash the blanket he took to use as well!)
So then, WH is Mr. Chatty all of a sudden, in such a good mood, wanting to tell me how things went!!! What an f-ing idiot! I think he saw that I wasn't all bright smiles at first and asked if I was okay. I said yes. Luckily he only told me how the car ride went and said he had some tummy time and was in a good mood.
I didn't want to know a single thing of course--I can't believe him! How could he not realize this? I had originally pictured taking my boy when he dropped him off, and then saying "goodbye, see you tomorrow!" But I guess he wanted to hang out.
Well, I am trying to not come across as bothered or depressed by this whole f-ed up situation so I miraculously turned on my good mood, made conversation and asked him if he wanted to watch V that I had recorded. So he held our baby boy and we watched the show. I started nursing our boy and then he left.
He noticed the house was clean and complimented me on it.
I wonder when he'll notice that I lost weight (I've lost a total of 30 lbs so far)
Boy I am curious about the phone counseling session on Monday--I wonder what they will tell me to do different! I am trying to do as described in Divorce Remedy.
Oh, and no D talk again.I guess that would be really cold if he brought it up today.
So we visited my grandma and I told her how it went. Now I know she wants the reconciliation to happen, so she can be biased. But she said "I bet (OW) is not that excited about your baby...she'll be polite and all but I just think (WH) is going to notice her enthusiasm is nothing compared to yours, and that man is crazy about his son!"
???we'll see. I will add some moves from my DB counseling session next week, too.
I must say that it seemed like baby and I barely saw WH compared to usual Saturdays since he left 3.5 hours early. I bet he is noticing it too...especially since he chose to take 90 minutes of his 4 hour visit to take him to OW. So he was only with his son 4 hours instead of 8!
He comes over tomorrow at 12.
He came over and did not bring his work bag again (it has the old D paperwork in it)! It has been 4 weeks since he brought up D talk. He made lots of reference to "we" "our" but who knows what that means. For ex: "we have some rice" "our garage gets cold" "I'll be home, er, here, around 5." He even made inside jokes.
I was cheerful, relaxed, but prepared if he were to bring up the D. I actually got my inspiration from reading another thread where the woman's H was with OW and told her the reason why he liked being with OW is that he felt no pressure. They talked about light topics, watched TV and laughed, and she never brought up his marriage. In fact, the OW even turned down a dinner date, telling H he should enjoy dinner with his wife after their C session! So I decided to be the happy, relaxed one.
Do you know that usually I hear WH's phone buzz at least twice from what I am assuming to be a text from OW? I am soooo much better at not texting him when he is with her!
Last time we spent time together I was anticipating the D talk and filled the silence with nervous chatter about the baby.So this time I just let it be quiet if that was the case.
I worked out for almost an hour, took a long time getting ready, went grocery shopping but then just hung out, checking my email or reading a magazine.Together we played with the baby a little, (mostly he did but I joined in sometimes)marveling at how amazing and funny and cute he is.
Looking back on the last year, major things happened on Holidays.
Halloween (08)--found out I was pregnant.
New Year's--found out about the affair.
St. Patrick's--found out he never ended it
(BTW Thanksgiving and Christmas sucked a$$ last year just b/c he was so distant and not enthused about the pregnancy but I didn't know why)
So wouldn't it be funny if on Thanksgiving he wants to talk about reconciling? A girl can dream, right? HOPE HOPE
Oh yeah...he said that his dad wants to come down to see the baby before Christmas. So are we supposed to do that together? hmmm...need to run that by my DB coach!
just another post...gotta love this "blog" opportunity...I had a thought today (well more than 1):
what if WH was telling the truth about why he married me? he said he fears that it was b/c he was lonely after his divorce.
It's my own stupid fault for marrying him then. I mean I have been wondering all these years if meeting him 6 months after his D would bite me in the butt one day...because it was the ONLY bad thing about him.
His ex cheated on him and left him for a guy she met from work and then married the guy. But last winter, 4 years later, she starts emailing my WH sying she was stupid to leave him; she's unhappy and now has 2 kids with this guy.
The funny thing is that we sure have a lot in common for someone he settled for just to rid himself of loneliness!
The other funny thing is that he has now personally known 2 people who have cheated on their spouses, divorced them to be with the OP, and then came crawling back (or tried) and regretted ever leaving. I wonder if that's why he hasn't served me with D paperwork yet?
He's also never told me he wants me to move on, or find someone for myself.
So, to sum it up, maybe he truly is confused, truly thought that he made a mistake marrying me, but only had these thoughts AFTER MEETING OW!!! But because of these other true life stories I referred to, he is aware that he could be making the biggest mistake of his life so he is stalling on the D.
Besides, 8 months after practically living with OW it must be dawning on him that his fantasy girl is actually a manipulative*, selfish* bitch who fakes it in bed*. (LOL) and that, like many men, he initially confused LUST for love. As reality sets in, he is discovering that what he felt/feels for me is the real deal...the best kind of love that is based on shared history, intimacy and has a lifetime to grow deeper and richer.
*manipulative b/c she used sex and sob stories to lure him and helped him justify why they should pursue a relationship (the timing was off but they were supposed to meet! barf)
*selfish (besides the obvious) but also because she doesn't support him seeing his son as much as he does
*faking it in bed (???just a guess b/c these type of women who use sex to feel control over men ALWAYS FAKE THE Os WHILE MAKING PORNSTAR NOISES!!!!!!I bet you a million bucks)
But you know what? If he ends up wanting this D and her,I feel sorry for him b/c it will pain him to see me happy with another man who is awesome with our son and he will deeply regret it. Not being angry here, just saying it honestly.I know I will be okay. Our son won't know any different.
I hang on b/c I also know my WH is one of a kind, and that is why I chose to continue dating him despite his recent divorce. Deep down he knows I, too, am one of a kind and that's why ultimately he won't divorce me!!
10 minutes til my phone session with the DB coach...I have butterflies in my stomach!!!!
Ok so...the phone session was more validating than anything.
Good news: I am already doing the right things by making changes for the better, being caring is okay, AND so is LETTING HIM TAKE OUR BABY TO OW!!??!That was one of my biggest worries. My coach said that I am doing whatever to encourage a father son relationship, so as long as the OW is not abusive or addicted to drugs, it isn't harmful to my baby (just my ego).
He said to not make any major moves for 6 weeks...no filing of paperwork or pressuring him to make a decision. (So my decision to file for D in January is a good timeline!)
He said a dark plan B is not good in my situation currently.
He said to face my fear: I am afraid my WH will present me with D paperwork. So what if he does? It takes a long time to complete the divorce process and besides, I am way more likely to be okay than he is if the D goes through. But I am supposed to
just stay cool and remind him it is his choice, not mine, then continue going about my changes in behavior. Kind of like "that's a shame. Oh well, I tried." I envision reacting like if you invite a friend to do something but they already made other plans.
He also said to "be the woman that you know he is supposed to be with" so be confident, caring, attractive, attentive but at the same time create a little mystery by doing new things, dressing up, and not tell him where I'm going.
So I didn't learn anything new except get confirmation that I'm doing the right things so far in regard to my behavior changes, it's okay for me to let him see his baby as much as he wants, even if it means taking him to see OW, BUT I could surprise him by changing his visiting schedule a little to make room for my plans. (only put up with this for the next 6 weeks)
Bad news: I learned all this from the books, websites, forums (this and others). I liked my coach just fine, but it wasn't his fault that I was already putting the book's recommendations into practice and don't necessarily need his help right now.
(We'll see what I think in a few weeks though--damn rollercoaster!)
Now as for tonight...am making another new meal tonight (chicken satay w/ curry rice) and the next 3 nights. I ran choices by WH yesterday and he said they all sounded good! Flank steak with bacon and balsamic glaze; baked potato on the side & Baked ranch chicken coated in Panko bread crumbs with brown sugar carrots on side.
My next GAL project--belly dancing classes. Currently some do not start up until December. There are "exotic dancing lessons" but I don't know if I am still too chubby for that right now, especially if a pole is involved LOL!
My next GAL project--belly dancing classes. Currently some do not start up until December. There are "exotic dancing lessons" but I don't know if I am still too chubby for that right now, especially if a pole is involved LOL!
I'll say something - my advice is to go to the exotic dancing lessons as if anything will make him look up, that will!
ha ha! thanks for the advice, P17! Well, maybe I should take them but do I let him know or is that ruining the mystery? And if I don't tell him, then how will he know?
p.s. someone actually reads my ramblings? :-)
I definitely wouldn't let him know directly - ie., don't tell him.
Leave the leaflet, sticker, flyer, whatever lying around and if he mentions it great. If not then let it lie. He will mention it though, I promise.
Bear in mind he will ask at some point where you are going. You just need to say a class / dance class. Let him wonder and find the rest.
The point is to be mysterious without avoiding him. If you avoid him it will look like a deliberate ploy.
I have been reading your 'ramblings' from the start. Your H is a fool. But then we all know that. It doesn't matter what we think though, only what he thinks. I would give my right arm to be in his position (if you see what I mean!)
just checked it out again...$12 per class, no pole and "all body types encouraged"...interesting...hmmmm....maybe....
No, hmmmmm ... maybe. Just do it.
I recently started a dance class (okay not the exotic type :)) and it was the BEST thing I have ever done. I love it. Wished I had done it YEARS ago! W, even though she has gone, is the only person who actually supports me doing it (go figure)!
And here is the dirty little secret (to quote Dr Cox from Scrubs). Most men actually prefer ... curvy women!
And curvy women who dance? Hmm ... sign me up to that class.
Newmama ... just do it. I promise you, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT. The boost it gives your self-confidence is worth $1200 never mind $12. Even if you just try ONE class ...
I did it! I signed up for the class! Thanks for the encouragement, P17. I had to switch Thursday night with Friday with WH (aka my babysitter) in order to do it so I had the chance to tell him that there was a dance class I wanted to take.
He didn't ask what kind of dance, but the teacher says to come wearing a low cut shirt and dance pants! So he will see me leaving dressed like that most likely!
I also get a kick out of taking away part of his Friday night with OW!
But he brought the damn WORK BAG today. We'll see. I am still going to be relaxed..face the fear...be confident...
And the Getting Through to Your Man book arrived yesterday. I started reading it and am so curious to try some stuff out. Someone gave it a raving review by calling it "her man bible" and she said she carries it around with her but hides it from her man! One thing that Michele mentioned so far is that if you want your man to do something, you PRAISE HIM for it instead of nagging. Ex: I really loved it when you brought me flowers the other month. You are so good at making me feel special! You can bring me flowers any time!
Also, if you change the way you act, they will respond. So instead of turning down sex, complaining, being a grumpy bitch, just start acting playful, nice, initiating sex and then your man will start to act his best, too!
This makes sense. I won't be doing any initiation of sex at this time, though!!!!
I did it! I signed up for the class! Thanks for the encouragement, P17. I had to switch Thursday night with Friday with WH (aka my babysitter) in order to do it so I had the chance to tell him that there was a dance class I wanted to take.
WELL DONE! You will not regret it. Believe me.
He didn't ask what kind of dance, but the teacher says to come wearing a low cut shirt and dance pants! So he will see me leaving dressed like that most likely!
LOL. He may never ask. But he will wonder. Rest assured.
I also get a kick out of taking away part of his Friday night with OW!
I know that's not the point of GALing but I know what you mean
It's nice to feel the power in your hands even for a little while.
newmama, did you expose the affair to everyone?
Bestraongforyoi, our family and friends know. The OW's mom knows. It has been going on for about a year or more, but he has had full access to OW since March when I kicked him out. I am also wondering if their affair will end before I file for D since it isn't fresh and new anymore.
Well, he left. No D talk! Before he left, he was watching me play with our baby and said that he is sooo adorable and people would be crazy not to see how great he is. He also said "You really are so good with him!" I said "Thanks, so are you! My grandma is really impressed with how well you interact with him and take care of him"
He seemed a little down, too.
P17, just wanted to let you know that I started reading your thread and will finish it by tonight. I haven't replied to anyone else's threads yet because WTF do I know yet to help people out? (Not because I'm self centered! :-) )
on page 17 so far...there is some advice given to you that I could use like learning that my WH's mood: BAD= GOOD and GOOD=BAD, not to overanalyze (which I have done but used to do waaaay more than lately), ignore words, and only pay attention to 50% actions. Why bother with 50%?
Also...am considering starting to date as soon as I file.It will definitely boost my self esteem and I hate to say this, but honestly believe that
"the best way to get over someone is to meet someone else" If you notice, that is why WAS are able to say ILYBINILWY...they are "over" us temporarily until their affair ends.
Now, I am not saying that I will jump into the arms of another to escape loneliness and lead the other guy on. I am saying DATING. Which means going out, laughing, having a drink, maybe kiss, take it slow. No serious relationships.Date more than one person at a time, but let them know.
WH abhorred when his ex wife and ex girlfriends would flirt with other guys in front of him to purposefuly "try to make him jealous." He saw it as manipulative and cruel. That's why I won't do it as a manipulation technique. I will only date to help ME not to try and get him back. I just don't want to have to wait for the entire D process to be finalized before I could start to have some fun.
Now, honestly, my heart isn't quite ready to give up on WH yet. So I am saving this desire to date until my January deadline.
Why have you set a January dedline? These things can and often do take years sometimes. It is different for each situation.
I'm just curious,
Kevin
oops meant to say "easiest way to get over someone" NOT best.
I think the best way is no contact combined with busy stuff for awhile and then meet someone.
Kevin,
I keep trying to type my explanation. In short, I think 9 months is sufficient for putting up with this bullshit.It has been 7.5 months since he moved out. WH is one of a kind but there has to be a limit at some point.I can't detach without NC.
I wouldn't be able to have true NC with WH unless I am willing to let OW see my son as much as WH would. I am NOT willing, therefore I am not able to detach.
Since I can't detach, it is painful and torments my heart and soul to live like this.It is getting hard for me to hold my head high and pretend I don't feel humiliated.
Divorce is the only way I can go NC I believe. He wants to take our son on overnight visit one day per week when he turns 6 months (January) and this is in the legal parenting plan that we drafted in March. I am not letting him take our son overnight unless I am legally required to. (selfish I know)
Hey if there is an alternative, I would be interested...
The only issue I have with this is that my W never looks happy when she is here ... I don't know whether to put that down to the state of her A or just because she sees me! She does have fun with my D though so ...
Also...am considering starting to date as soon as I file.
I briefly flirted (forgive the pun) with dating. It just didn't work for me. I'm not ready. Then you are much further down the road than I am and have already had a period of NC.
So if your W is unhappy while there, why not think it has to do with the fact that she is regretting her decision and missing her family? Meaning, bad=good? I know this can't account for everything. And just because people feel that way doesn't mean they are going to suddenly change.
When my WH is joking around with me while here, I do not think it is bad. I think it's bad when he shows up already in a good mood (like he got LAID that morning? barf)and leaves kind of like he is excited to go. He was excited when he arrived and left on Saturday after taking our son to the OW. So that was BAD.
I just finished skimming DivorceBusting. I am thinking about the fact that results may take time to show up. I am thinking about my January deadline.
So I wonder if this: IF I DON'T see changes in his behavior by January then I will speak with the action of filing for D.
IF I DO see changes between now and January, then....postpone?But what changes am I looking for? How will I know if he is coming around? What signs will he give me? Will he just suddenly tell me out of the blue that he wants to come home? I don't know what I am looking for all of a sudden.
I think I will ask the forum in Piecing or WAS...
It comes down to what you want. Do you want your M to be saved? If so, then you can't put a deadline on it. If you do, you will only dissapoint yourself and grow resentful at his not changing according to YOUR timeline.
He's got his own process. First thing I would do though is not be around him so much and allow the baby to see him on YOUR terms. Let's face it. He walked out on both of you. Right now he's got his cake and eating it too. He's got nothing to lose.
You have to give him a reason to miss something. You can't do that while being a doormat. Right now he's calling the shots with the paperwork and everything. You've got to find a way to put yourself in a position of power.
"the best way to get over someone is to meet someone else"
This concerns me. If you REALLY believe this you are setting yourself up for total failure each time. You don't need anyone to get over another R. If you did, you're going to end up with a long string of failed R because all you're doing is transferring your co-dependency from one person to another. Learn to stand on your own two feet for now. Your baby will appreciate it in the long run.
Thanks, stuck808. I have some time before January. I think it could make sense for me to continue with my current plan and observe changes for awhile. I have only been actively doing my plan for about 4 weeks now since I had to start over the day after I broke down in tears when he confronted me with D talk (Oct. 18)
Here is the deal with the parenting schedule: I DO have control. We draft it together each month. If I want to make changes, I CAN. Currently what makes me happy is that H is seeing our son at OUR HOUSE, NOT with the OW.
Here is the history of things I've done to try to get WH back.
Jan 1: first discovered the affair. Issued ultimatum, cried, scared. WH reluctantly chose me but kept staying friends with OW underground. (She pursued...this is a whole other story)
March 17: discovered the underground relationship. Issued ultimatum again. Kicked him out, tried to rationalize with him, sent him articles about affairs, tried to get him to see the script he was following was the same as the articles.DIDN'T WORK.Told him we need to divorce and he needs to move out. He wanted to stay in the house with me for duration of pregnancy.I said no way!!!!
We started looking up laws about D in our county, drafted parent plan, started paper work.
March 30: Told him that I couldn't see him. I didn't want him coming over to the house to check on me. We didn't email or talk or text.
end of April: I fell down in the driveway, broke my tooth, had to go to hospital. I tried calling him to take me to the hospital but he never answered (didn't hear the phone). He did feel very guilty and bad and I believe him. But This didn't even cause him to come back to me or "wake up." instead he insisted on taking the garbage to the curb for me and doing some other household things. I said I would allow that if we didn't see each other so he would leave me letters and notes and presents. The letters never said "I love you or I miss you."
So NC didn't make him come back.
May: I sent him a letter based on the advice of my therapist. He said to outline a path for him to come back to me and to let him know that I wouldn't wait forever. But that when he chose to end the relationship, I want to reconcile. I don't know how long I will feel that way. NOTHING happened.
May/JuneWe went to a couple of labor classes together, baby dr. appts, NOTHING changed.
July:he moved in with me and the baby for 3 weeks. During this stay, he did ask about the divorce, I said I had the fantasy of him coming back one day and he said he thought about it but he has made too much of a mess. He will always love me and never stopped.
I tell him I don't want to divorce yet. I ask him if he is 100% sure he wants the divorce. He can't answer. He says no relationship has guarantees, but he isn't ready to end his relationship yet and he doesn't expect me to wait for him. NOTHING CHANGED.
August to October: I get emotional from time to time, I am bitchy to him, I am nice to him. I start "going out" each Thursday night. I don't lose much weight or make any major changes other than try not to show him that I care. I try to be neutral. NOTHING CHANGED
October 18: he brings up divorce, I freak out.
October 19:I start to make changes that he will notice and are good for me--cooking new dishes, cleaning, working out, looking good, being happy not just neutral. NOT arguing with him about our baby, not pressuring him to talk about divorce, stop chasing/ pursuing.
Oct 26: He brings up idea of me letting him take our son each Saturday starting November, to "transition" into the parenting plan. I tell him I'll think about it.
Oct 27: He brings it up again. I tell him I'll think about it.
Oct 31: He brings it up again. I tell him nicely that I need some more time, please. He tells me I will never be comfortable with the idea. I say no, I won't but I would like some more time please.
Nov 1:He brings it up again. Comes over, right away says he brought the parenting plan and wants to discuss it at some point so I say how about now. He says we need to start documenting.(??) I tell him that he is allowed to see his son as much as he wants and all I asked was for more time.We compromise and decide on Nov. 7.He asks for 5-6 hours. I say 3 or 4. We compromise on 4.
HE STARTS CRYING and says he can't imagine the future when he only sees his son every 3 or 4 days. (When he is a certain age, we are splitting custody 50/50) He wants to see if we can find a way to arrange something different. I am CALM, DRY EYED, AND SAY "You know I don't want the divorce, right?" I see his eyes get big for a second and he says "yeah, I know." I remind him that this is his choice, not mine. Then I leave to go grocery shopping. He never took the parenting plan paperwork out of the bag.
Changes: on Saturday, Nov 7, he saw our baby 7-12:30, part of that time with OW. He usually sees him 8-4 at our house.
I made plans to take our baby to visit grandma so he had to leave early. I will be doing something similar this Saturday (making plans to take baby to a friend's)
I rearranged plans this week already ona day that would suit me (so I can take a dance class)
He hasn't brought up divorce or parenting plan since Nov 1.
Oh and from Nov 5- present, when he is here, I have been quiet or busy a lot of the time. I am nice, happy and do make new dinners. When he brought up the D talk in October, he commented on how he will miss the fun we have had cooking together and he appreciates how nice I am to him.
I have not been crying, not freaking out, not issuing ultimatum talk or the other stuff I pulled in the past.
My hope is that by letting him take our baby for a month of Saturdays to OW, he will experience a taste of what a divorced dad's life would be like combined with missing his baby because he is seeing him 4 hours less, combined with feeling "not the same" when he is trying to share the experience of our baby with OW and she is most likely not marvelling in how amazing he is. Combined with the OW pressuring him to divorce me. (just a guess)
Oh and he will miss Thanksgiving with us, and Christmas (if he keeps seeing OW) and he has NOT mentioned a word about Christmas plans at all! I am a little surprised by this but I haven't brought it up either.
He also indicated back when talking about parenting plan that "others are not pleased" with how much he sees our baby but that he is doing what he wants because he loves him so much. (only his family and the OW know and his family loves me and our baby) So I suspect she wants him to spend less time over here at the sacrifice of not seeing his son. I am saying see your son as much as you want. (who is more loving???)
The only other changes I have noticed from him so far is more compliments, more joking and "nice" behavior when he is here, and when he texts every morning to check on our baby, he used to just ask "How is S doing? How did he sleep?" but in last couple of weeks he has asked "How are You guys doing? Did you do suchandsuch?"
The only other changes I have noticed from him so far is more compliments, more joking and "nice" behavior when he is here, and when he texts every morning to check on our baby, he used to just ask "How is S doing? How did he sleep?" but in last couple of weeks he has asked "How are You guys doing? Did you do suchandsuch?"
As I've said a million times, I'm no expert. But these texts to me are a step in the right direction. I would say your approach is working, albeit slowly. I would say to keep the pressure off completely and keep going.
I wish my own sitch was going so well!
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p17, Thanks for the encouragement...but I should only care about 50% actions, right?
Yesterday I only saw him about 90 minutes out of 450 minutes so was NC 80% time. On Monday night, we ate dinner together and spent 45 minutes/180 minutes, so NC was 75%.
(Compare this to 40-50% in past visits)
As for your sitch, a) her affair is relatively new still and b)she has noticed your weight loss and dance moves. Just start to be consistent with some kind of strategy that you are choosing, which sounds like GAL + NC, right?
p17, Thanks for the encouragement...but I should only care about 50% actions, right?
That's right. And nothing of what they say.
Yesterday I only saw him about 90 minutes out of 450 minutes so was NC 80% time. On Monday night, we ate dinner together and spent 45 minutes/180 minutes, so NC was 75%.
(Compare this to 40-50% in past visits)
So you are still further in NC than previously!
As for your sitch, a) her affair is relatively new still and b)she has noticed your weight loss and dance moves. Just start to be consistent with some kind of strategy that you are choosing, which sounds like GAL + NC, right?
I have GAL'ed. It's not going so well now. But when I had / have NC it will go a lot better.
Need to get back to the gym. Have now lost 35 pounds in weight, grown a beard (we had a conversation about tonight ... mine normally goes a little ginger towards the end and I want to look like Dr Cox from Scurbs as he us my idol ... but mine won't be as grey ... the usual trivial conversations people have :)), am now singing AND dancing (I never did that before) and I think she thinks I have another woman (although this may play into her 'he has another woman so I don't need to feel guilty about it anymore' complex).
Oooops...had one drink too many...don't worry! WH gave our baby a bottle so he is safe (I nurse mainly).
Let's see...tonight I made a new recipe but burnt the bacon and overcooked the steak.
WH said "I don't mind burnt bacon when it's a topping" and "The steak tastes good to me!" he did eat it all.
Our baby was in a horrible mood because he didn't sleep well last night. Normally he is all smiles but when he is ticked he screams his head off, just like tonight. WH was patient and loving.
I worked out on the elliptical but not as long as normal (I am sleep deprived b/c baby is sleep deprived).
From 7:25-7:55, WH's cell phone buzzed not once, not THREE times, but FOUR F'N times! Yep, OW is PURSUING and CHASING and INSECURE! Why do I think it is OW and not someone else? My WH COULD have more guy friends but he doesn't. So it only makes sense that it is WH. If it wasn't her 4 times, then it was at least 2-3x LOL! Way more insecure than me!
He did have opportunity to reply to her when he took our baby upstairs to the crib and/or going to the bathroom.
He stayed longer and we watched V. Then around 8, our baby started fussing. he is consoling him and putting him to sleep as I type this.
WH has left the building (LOL). I made a point to touch him by gently poking his arm while saying "good job getting him to sleep!" as we watched our son in the video monitor in our bedroom. (standing side by side)I may have touched him 2-3x this week which is a lot compared to the 0 times over the last few months.
Don't worry, I am not overdoing it. No, I am not giggling and touching him like some flirty teenager. (or desperate OW heh heh!)
So while exercising I was thinking...my 2nd greatest fear next to the divorce is OW spending time with OUR baby son. Is it a fear or is it based on some kind of protective/competitive instinct?
Then I start to think about the DB coach telling me to face my fear.
Then I start to think about 99% people telling me to go to NC with WH and enforce a divorced dad's visitation schedule before filing for D.After all...would I rather (gag, barf) let OW play with, hold, bond to my son for a temporary amount of time (i.e. Plan B/NC) OR an indefinite amount of time? (Plan D)
So. I am going to keep trying my strategy for a few more weeks. Then, before filing for D, I will get y'alls advice and implement plan B.
Wow. What will my friends and family think of me? All but my mom, my g-ma and one internet friend think I should have divorced my WH long ago. And now I am vowing to postpone plan D further? Seriously, I will need to be even more brave and bold by facing my condescending friends and relatives when I tell them I am not filing for D. I wonder if I will lose friends b/c of this decision.
All motivated by the existence of our baby boy.... but I am still 99% confident their relationship would end and he would be looking me up if we D'd without having a child. (Every ex boyfriend of mine has done it so why wouldn't he?)
P17, I can now picture you as Dr. Cox!! He is funny but luckily has become nicer in recent seasons of Scrubs.
As for your W thinking you have a special lady: part of her may feel relieved (to alleviate guilt) but come on, the other part is threatened!! She is human, right? Even when I have ended a relationship with a boyfriend, it hurt my ego to learn he had started dating. Haven't you felt the same? I am not encouraging you to date in order to make her jealous! BUt you are GAL and the side effect is causing her to wonder what you are up to. (which is goooood!)
Just don't expect her to drop her relationship for you so soon. Remember that it takes 6 months (on average) for most affairs to end. If you expect her to end her "relationship" in 1-2 month's time, I think you will be disappointed.Be realistic instead.
What do you mean about picking up singing? Fun karaoke or singing lessons? Can you carry a tune? What are you singing? :-)
P17, I can now picture you as Dr. Cox!! He is funny but luckily has become nicer in recent seasons of Scrubs.
Just the beard ... just the beard
As for your W thinking you have a special lady: part of her may feel relieved (to alleviate guilt) but come on, the other part is threatened!!
Not sure. Sometimes I think she is, sometimes I don't think she cares. It doesn't really matter anymore though.
That is in question ...
Even when I have ended a relationship with a boyfriend, it hurt my ego to learn he had started dating. Haven't you felt the same?
I have. And girl friends I have spoken to have also said that while they may not want their men back, they don't want them dating either. PDT said the exact same.
BUt you are GAL and the side effect is causing her to wonder what you are up to. (which is goooood!)
I don't know if that is true with her. She just seems to uninterested most of the time.
Just don't expect her to drop her relationship for you so soon. Remember that it takes 6 months (on average) for most affairs to end. If you expect her to end her "relationship" in 1-2 month's time, I think you will be disappointed.Be realistic instead.
I know. I am being too impatient. Again, hopefully the NC will help with that. Maybe my entire mental energy will no longer be focused on her!
What do you mean about picking up singing? Fun karaoke or singing lessons? Can you carry a tune? What are you singing? :-)
No, what I meant was that when she came in I was signing merrily away to myself and dancing around (dance like nobody is watching? :)) which is something I would never have done before. I was Mr Boring, Mr Serious and Mr PayTheBills.
Wow. What will my friends and family think of me? All but my mom, my g-ma and one internet friend think I should have divorced my WH long ago. And now I am vowing to postpone plan D further? Seriously, I will need to be even more brave and bold by facing my condescending friends and relatives when I tell them I am not filing for D. I wonder if I will lose friends b/c of this decision.
If you lose friends because you decided to follow your own path in life then you really don't need them as friends. Friends are there to support you and pick you up when you fall over. They are not there to insist you do it their way or you're out!
This is also something that is tackled in the DR book. Friends and family encouraging you to D - mine do the same. What they are actually doing though is looking out for you and looking for a way for you to stop hurting - the obvious way is to D which is why they want you to do it. When you hurt they also hurt so it is also a way for them to get away from that pain. It's human nature. It's natural but it doesn't help you when you are wanting to fight for your M.
Oh, now I get what you meant by singing! I read in one of the books that we can all tend to get so serious and lose our sense of humor over the years with our spouses. She says to lighten up and it is good advice. What made me laugh was when she said to "have fun" trying out the different strategies to get your WS attention (i.e. 180, GAL, LRT, Act As If). I think she meant to see their reaction to each. ???
Thanks for reminding me about the issue of friends and family to encourage me to D. I guess I am concerned that they are so disgusted by WH and could never forgive him for what he did/is doing and therefore don't respect me if I want to be with him. I have not talked to them about our situation since August. I told them that I would bring it up if I wanted to talk about it but instead lets focus on the rest of our lives when conversing.
I don't mean to sound immature. I am referring to my close group of 3 friends that I have known 12-20 years and WH and I have spent a lot of time with them! I have told 2 work friends and although I do like them a lot, I wouldn't consider them my family like the close 3. There was also no way that I could have kept this as a secret from the 3 close friends...I had to tell someone at work and trust those 2, plus they have experienced infidelity as well so they understood! But one's H cheated on her with at least 3 different women, and got 2 of them pregnant. So she couldn't put up with that (and NEITHER would I , I totally feel 100% fine walking away from WH if he got OW pregnant. I am NOT THAT STRONG.)
As for my family, they are supportive of whatever I want and genuinely like WH. Maybe they are supportive because they are older and wiser or because all have been divorced. (except my grandma--she actually just feels sorry for WH at this point!)
Oh, and if I do decide to D at some point, it would be WH's fault for messing up our son's life with his destructive action, not mine for choosing to not tolerate such treatment. So I don't really like that "guilt trip" if I choose to walk away from this whole mess and don't think it's fair.
I have stuck it out this far so that says something about my willingness to try.
WH is not here today; it's his "night off." He just called to check on our baby. He seemed relaxed and not in a hurry to get off the phone. I said goodbye first and wished him a good night.
I just re-read my thread and cringed at all of the sloppy grammar! I must admit that I type in a hurry and don't proofread before I push the "submit" button.
Tomorrow night is the exotic dance class!
Also, wanted to add that I don't wear my ring and I asked WH to give me his back in April. I never exposed the A to his work but they can wonder about his ring. He can make up any story though.
He asked me to please not throw it away and give it back to him some day so he can cherish the memories. I put our rings together with the anniversary cards he gave me that have handwritten things like "we can get through anything together" or "I am the luckiest man to be married to you" etc. etc.
People who don't know about the A just assume my ring doesn't fit right now b/c it didn't during my third trimester and I gained weight. But I am losing the weight now so it should fit soon. I guess I just keep it off and not say anything.
And I took down our wedding and "couple" photos back in April, too, but did not burn them or anything.
We only have 1 photo of both of us with our son; taken 15 minutes after he was born.It isn't up anywhere.
And WH's stuff is still here.The only things he has taken to his apartment include an old 32 inch TV, the espresso maker, some clothes. He did take the blow up mattress originally but brought it back when he stayed in the guest room for the 3 weeks around the time our son was born.
By the way, he used to try to make it sound like he was staying at his apartment. I KNEW he wasn't! (I used to say "don't you need a lamp or a chair?you must have to sit on the floor or rely on the ceiling light" just to mess with him) But then he left his bed (the mattress)here after the 3 weeks were up. I guess as a way to let me know he wasn't staying the night at his apartment.
He would talk about getting some of the old furniture but needed someone to help him. (Besides OW, none of his friends from work know about the A, and his dad lives out of town. So he has no one to ask for help unless he tells them!!haha)
He was renting his apartment on a 6 month lease, but when he brought up D talk last month, I asked him if he was still leasing and he said he switched it to month to month. Wow, so he is paying all the bills right now (until I return to work in August), the mortgage and $850 every month for his apartment!Not to mention the gas that it takes for him to drive to our house and back to hers every day!
Why bother with the empty apartment? WH is paid modestly but has always been good with money...surely he is racking up debt on credit cards, which is something he has always avoided in the past! haha lucky for him, if/when we R, I still have the savings from when we divided everything back in March and set up separate accounts. I have added more to the savings since then.
I have had my eye on this 56 inch TV with LCD screen, though ;-)
Thanks for reminding me about the issue of friends and family to encourage me to D. I guess I am concerned that they are so disgusted by WH and could never forgive him for what he did/is doing and therefore don't respect me if I want to be with him.
I think taking back a WAS and working on your marriage is an incredibly strong thing for anybody to do. It's all to easy to throw in the towel (sometimes there is no other option though). To stand up, be counted and say what you want and work to getting it is something that is sorely lacking in our throw-away society.
But your friends are your friends. If they lose respect for you for doing something that is in your heart but is not what they would do, then you are better off without them. As I said, friends are there to pick you up when you screw up, brush you down and point you back down the road again. They are not for judging you.
True friends will stand by you.
Thanks again for the encouragement,P. People do give up on marriage rather quickly don't they? I think that being a child of divorce has made me feel more determined to keep this marriage.
My friends would just have to accept the R eventually. Like I said before, they can't just erase all of WH's good qualities because of this (not to minimize the destruction but I mean when/if we R, those good qualities will resurface)
I just think about old married couples in their 70s and what kind of history they may have had in their 50 years of marriage. Haven't you heard stories where they have overcome great obstacles that would cause people to get divorced in today's society?
I have a fantasy of imagining 40 years from now, telling this story to our teenage grandkids as a kind of lesson. And like someone said, what is 1-2 years in a span of 45 years with someone? (A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO SAY THAT THAN TO LIVE IT, THOUGH!!)
Thanks again for the encouragement,P. People do give up on marriage rather quickly don't they? I think that being a child of divorce has made me feel more determined to keep this marriage.
My W is a child of two divorces / affairs but sometimes the opposite is true. People become what they have been through as it feels comfortable for them. It might seem insane to us, but it's not about us.
I just think about old married couples in their 70s and what kind of history they may have had in their 50 years of marriage. Haven't you heard stories where they have overcome great obstacles that would cause people to get divorced in today's society?
That's exactly what I think when I think of W. Just after W left, I went away for a week with a buddy camping. The tales he told me about his own parents had my jaw dropping. Then I thought if those two can come through that, what on EARTH is W doing have an A. I mean our situation, to my mind at least, is NOTHING compared to what his parents had gone through. It's the throw-away society - nothing is work keeping anymore. We want INSTANT gratification. It's also the work-shy society - if you have to actually work at anything, just try something else that is easier.
I have a fantasy of imagining 40 years from now, telling this story to our teenage grandkids as a kind of lesson. And like someone said, what is 1-2 years in a span of 45 years with someone? (A WHOLE LOT EASIER TO SAY THAT THAN TO LIVE IT, THOUGH!!)
You know what, I have EXACTLY the same thoughts. Every marriage (EVERY SINGLE ONE) has bumps in the road. No marriage is perfect and it's these things that make us stronger. Every story I have read about couples who recover their M say they are stronger for it. It's these bumps on the road that make us stronger.
But, we are human and our patience is finite. It's sad.
I went to the exotic dancing class! There were 4 other girls there, all a size 2 (not exaggerating) and some were training to get moves for a stripper job. I am not the most cooridinated but luckily the teacher paired verbal directions with the moves (I am very verbal!) I still had fun and felt sexy. After the class I chatted with the teacher and she told me she used to be a size 14 (I am a 16 but not usually and NOT for long!) and she is a grandma with a son in his 20s. I thought SHE was 28-29!! SHe said she drinks a lot of green tea! SHe said her class in a different location has wpmen from a larger range of sizes so I might go to that one. Tomorrow I will be sore for sure!
WH was in a neutral mood tonight. Whatever. I kept reminding myself that no matter what, I will be okay. I am still young and even if I wasn't, people still move on at any age.
I am a good catch; no addictions, am attractive, fun, nice, warm, and this time next year I will be happier with or without my WH. Seriously, if he gives up on our marriage, I will be okay.
Our poor son will not know any different, sadly, but maybe he could break the cycle of divorce IF that ends up happening to us.
I think of the show Californication, where the parents are still "friends" (not that I want that) and the last season I saw, the ex wife ended up leaving her fiance at the alter and reuniting with her ex (David Ducovny's character). This is a few years after their divorce, I think. (TV is silly but art can imitate reality, right? :-) )
Well, tomorrow I will keep busy again during the 7-11 time that WH takes our baby boy. He is teething right now, so I kind of hope he is fussy during his visit with OW! Maybe he will even spit up on her! Wooo ha ha ha! >:-|
I am not giving up, BTW, just sayin' I know I will be okay.
(BUT I HOPE it doesn't come to that...)
I lost 2 more pounds! At this rate, I should lose the weight by May, but start looking good by March!
Well I am sooooore for sure! I might take the class again in a couple weeks.
WH has come and gone; my friend is visiting at 1 so he had to cut his visit short again...I did show caring by suggesting snacks for him to eat (he hadn't eaten all day--WTF was he doing at OW's? I am liking this domestic diva that I am becoming!
(yeah right...no Martha Stewart but maybe more like Rachael Ray- we're both bubbly brunettes)
This time when I smelled my baby, there was no hint of her perfume on him. I still changed his outfit, though!
WH was in a good mood again. He did ask "How are you?" when he walked in though.While he was here, he fed S, played with him, and tried to get him down for a nap. I ate b-fast, did laundry, baked squash. Was relaxed, not too happy, not sad (BUT I WAS). When he left, taking his time saying goodbye, I gave him a sweet smile.
tomorrow when he's here, I plan on working out, taking a long bath with magazines and wine, and grocery shop.I will probably be able to be busy 4/5 hours.
wow--My friend and I talked about my sitch and I told her my fear of her rejecting me if WH and I reconcile. She said she would stand by me no matter what. She understands why I still want to stay married to him. We talked a little more about what I am trying to do but I did not tell her that he is taking S every Sat. morning...I just didn't know if I could admit that to her!
We both agreed that WH will have a sad Thanksgiving and Christmas if it keeps going.
I also told her I planned on still decorating the house for Christmas and having the best time I could and she thought that would definitely cause WH to miss his home and consider what he has given up. She even said I could ask him to put up the Christmas lights on the house like he does every year but I don't know...maybe he will offer. It usually takes him 2 days to do it!
So I am glad to finally talk about it with her and incredibly relieved she supports me! She didn't even think he has written off coming back. It helps to give me hope.
just dropping by...he came over without his work bag... :-)
So far I have done everything on my list from yesterday! Yay! I deserve a small ice cream cone from DQ!
So he just left...no D talk. He brought up Thanksgiving and noticed the food I bought. He asked if it was for my mom's house.
I said yes, but actually I am planning on surprising him on Wed with a Thanksgiving mini feast of our favorite foods! I bought mulling spices and cinnamon sticks to add to apple cider warming on the stove. So he will walk in, smelling the yummy goodness and I will say "don't make your breakfast sandwich. We are having our own Thanksgiving; just the three of us." I really really think he will be touched!
I asked him if he would help me get out all of the Christmas decorations this week and he said sure. Then he asked if I wanted to go pick out a tree together to chop down (we've done this every year). I was surprised that he offered and couldn't help but pause before saying, sure. He said he understood if I didn't want to because it was too weird. I said "let's just see how it goes"
I hope that was the right thing to say...does it conflict with my no pressure/be agreeable plan?
oh and he was very nice, joking around, making small talk...things he hasn't done in a looooong time.It reminded me of
"kissing up" or "brown nosing"
If he is testing the waters, how should I be acting?
Should we go cut down the tree together?
I have butterflies...
So I have asked my mom and 2 friends about cutting down the tree and they all said "yes!" right away. They also thought it was good that I just said "let's see how it goes" for now...not too eager.
This morning he has sent joky texts...my old DH. I admit that I sent some joky ones back. I am so worried about getting too hopeful but I am protecting myself, too. This is the risk I am taking with this plan after all (cake eating)
Last night WH was neutral; not kiss ass but not distant either. We both enjoyed our son together. He put our baby to sleep earlier than planned, so we ended up in the living room, watching The Amazing Race (one of our shows). I sat on the couch, and was the first to lean on my right while he he sat in the rocker recliner to my right, leaning on his left.
He ate all my dinner and cleaned up the whole kitchen even though I told him that I would do it tomorrow.
Before he left he said "Goodnight, see you in the--see you tomorrow"
Should I wait until Wed to discuss tree shopping or bring it up tonight? Wednesday he comes over for the day & I surprise him with a Thanksgiving meal.
Will anyone please respond who is reading this? I would appreciate support. Thank you--P17 where are you?
Oh--I still worked out, avoided him from 5-7:15. So we spent 45 minutes alone together.
I don't want this too sound too harsh. I have been reading your thread since the start so I am rooting for you two. However I don't feel I am the right person to answer this given my new sitch, so take what I say with a pinch of salt.
I think this is all getting a bit too friendly again too soon. I am just waiting for the message where you say that he has backed off again and you are devastated. I think you should slow down a little and take the pressure off of him and you. You can still be loving and caring.
I think you are being too keen and you are doing what I was doing in earlier posts - overanalysing everything such as him leaning one way and you another. I now accept MOST of this stuff for what it is ... just two people leaning. However I still do it from time to time (see latest post about her saying 'see you later'). I completely understand the temptation to read into it. Been there, done it, got the T-shirt so I'm not having a go.
You need to always bear one thing in mind - he is having an A and every single night he is going back to OW. It doesn't have to affect your every decision but you should remember it.
Should I wait until Wed to discuss tree shopping or bring it up tonight? Wednesday he comes over for the day & I surprise him with a Thanksgiving meal.
I'm not sure about the tree shopping. I'm really not. He is currently getting his cake and eating it which was a big problem for me and W. He is getting his OW on one hand and getting to play happy families with you on the other.
My take would be to do it with your mum. But if you're like me, that will be an incredibly hard thing for you to do as you will feel like you are pushing him further away.
If he wants to be a dad and an H then he must give up OW. Otherwise he is just your son's father. However if you give him that ultimatum it will likely push him out the door. What you are doing is good but I would back it off a little.
I can't remember reading about the OW. What does she give him that you don't? Do you know much about her (if it's in an earlier message I apologise - just point me to it).
cIf he wants to be a dad and an H then he must give up OW. Otherwise he is just your son's father. However if you give him that ultimatum it will likely push him out the door. What you are doing is good but I would back it off a little.
I think you are right--ultimatum = bad.
My take would be to do it with your mum. But if you're like me, that will be an incredibly hard thing for you to do as you will feel like you are pushing him further away.
Yes, I am worried that I would be pushing him away if he is testing the waters. This approach I am taking is totally bizarre (non intuitive) but is still a part of the divorce busting techniques and approved by the DB coach so I am going with it for awhile. I am still going to think about the tree shopping.
I can't remember reading about the OW. What does she give him that you don't? Do you know much about her (if it's in an earlier message I apologise - just point me to it).
Let's see...admiration (over the top),she is sexually aggressive, and immature--engages in adolescent behavior. They enjoy video games, roller coasters, rock music and they work together. I think basically she is the bad girl he never got in high school.
Thank you so much for reading and responding! You aren't sounding too harsh but still sound direct which I appreciate!
oh I forgot to add that I'll push it back a little. Will still do Thanksgiving tomorrow but not bring up the tree and not do anything else overly nice.
oh I forgot to add that I'll push it back a little. Will still do Thanksgiving tomorrow but not bring up the tree and not do anything else overly nice.
Let him bring up the tree again and you can take it from there. If he brings the tree up again, then he is obviously keen to do it.
[quote=P17Let him bring up the tree again and you can take it from there. If he brings the tree up again, then he is obviously keen to do it.[/quote]
This sounds like a good idea. I don't need the tree anytime soon; I can wait for a week or two!
But I did tell him "let's see how it goes" so does that sound like I am going to be the one to bring it up next?
There will definitely be an opportunity for him to bring it up when I ask him to get out the decorations this weekend.
Okay, so here is how today went. WH came over about 8:15. He had texted me to see if I wanted a coffee drink from Starbucks, but I declined (just was too full).
When he came in, he saw all of the Thanksgiving stuff on the counter as well as apple cider with cinnamon sticks and orange slices on the stove. I told him not to make his breakfast sandwich because we were going to have a Thanksgiving meal today, just the 3 of us. He looked surprised and said "I'll be here tomorrow, too" and I said "I know, but I don't know how many Thanksgivings you'll be going to tomorrow so I thought we could do it today."
He said "That's very sweet." Then looked down at our baby, and kissed him.So I told him the meal plan and started cooking, preparing the brine for the turkey breast and some other stuff.We were making chit chat about this and that.
At one point he asked if I would be making sugar cookies again this year for Christmas and I said of course--am doing all the traditional holiday stuff.
As I played with our baby on the floor, he comes over and AGAIN tells me how good I am at making sure our baby is educated and getting all the right stimulation and growing experiences, etc. I tell him thank you; but I am trying to make the most of it while staying home this year.
Well, I stop to nurse our baby and ask WH to please make the cranberry sauce (he has always done this in the past) and he asked if I wanted help with other stuff so I asked him to also get the mac and cheese going and just keep an eye on the potatoes. He got busy cooking, singing aloud (like he used to), talking to me about our boy, bustling about in the kitchen.
So it comes time to sit down for our meal. WH carves the turkey. We sit at the table with our baby in his highchair and WH feeds him applesauce in between bites of food. WH is very quiet. My gut tells me that it isn't bad that he is quiet. I keep up the conversation, not talking too much about future events other than asking when his mom will see Carter.
WH thanks me for cooking all of this. I said you cooked too, thank you! He remains rather quiet for the rest of the afternoon.
He had purchased some groceries earlier today to beat the crowds. He put them in the fridge in the garage. I went out there and noticed Thanksgiving type food (egg nog, buttermilk, I didn't dig too much more). I know this is for tomorrow with OW. I assumed they would be celebrating it together. It didn't hurt too bad for me see it...I imagine they will go to her mom's house and he will be celebrating Thanksgiving without me or his baby boy, without his family (his sister and mom, etc) without my family. Totally different experience. Her mom knows all about what's going on. What a lovely meal they will have, surely! (ha ha.)
You could argue that I gave him the Thanksgiving meal today so he won't have to miss it, but no, it was not in the same spirit. It was like see what you are missing out on? We could have had a lovely family meal if you would just be a husband again.
So then a couple hours later he put our baby to sleep and got ready to leave. He said goodbye and he would see me in the morning.
My goals for making the meal were to create a compare/contrast situation for him (me and our home versus her and his crazy stupid choice).
just a couple thoughts...
Back in May, I actually found an old thread on a different website from 2002 created by a woman in a very similar situation as mine, with a WH who was similar, and she was taking the same approach as me (well I guess I am taking the same approach as her), and her H came back after 9 months. Why? He said he missed his life and his home. He was crazy about his baby girl. A month after he came home, she and WH finally kissed. They had another baby 2 years later and in 2008 were still happily married. She didn't post past that year. So his initial motivation was not to return for HER! But he said he never stopped loving her.
Another thought...time and again I have read that the WAS come back due to their own reasons, separate from what we do. HOWEVER I want to believe in Michele's principles; that our behavior can cause others to change their behavior.Enticing and drawing the WAS back by changing ourselves without chasing is one way.
one more...I think that if I were to act the way I am now right after DDay, it wouldn't have made any difference but the reason why I think it MAY make a difference now is b/c of the stage of the affair. But I am observing changes in WH's behavior to determine if it is working...time will tell.
Another thought...time and again I have read that the WAS come back due to their own reasons, separate from what we do. HOWEVER I want to believe in Michele's principles; that our behavior can cause others to change their behavior.Enticing and drawing the WAS back by changing ourselves without chasing is one way.
Chasing never works. I wish I could jump back in time and apply these principles only a few months ago when I chased and pursued. I suppose the only saving grace I have is that it was only a couple of months of chasing. But still.
why I think it MAY make a difference now is b/c of the stage of the affair.
What stage is the A at?
newmama, hi. bluerain said we said some things in common and you are a saint. I'm 7 months pregnant and WAH left 6 weeks ago. I'm very high risk, been hospitalized, work and he does absolutely nada to help me take care of the house, get water, feed dogs/cats/ change cat box. we are at the p oint of not talking at all. i used to hear alot of i plan on working things out with you, i want to leave the rest of my stuff at the house, y move it out, blah blah. nothing as far as actions.
I have the upcoming birth and maybe i'm mean but i tol dhim if we weren't a family as husband and wife he could not be there for the birth, if he could not help or be there for me now what made him think he could just show up for all the glory of the birth then walk away again. we don't have to go to birthing classes since my births are all planned csections-due to high risk.
we have d2 and i just changed how she is cared for while i work, he no longer will see her, cause me stress and anxiety over the drop offs, issues with his mother caring for our d2. maybe selfish but i think that in light of my pregnancy doing EVERYTHING just me with no support- even no support monetarily wise, i can eliminate some of the stress by not having to see him for exchanges.
so i've now implemented the lrt, next tuesday have a court appointment with concilliation services to try to save the marriage.
i don't want our children d2 or newborn bonding with any OW, don't think it's happened yet, but i never know. i have d18 previous marriage and had so many issues with her father's revolving door of women. i do't want that for my children or the split homes division of holidays. i didn't have these children to be divided.
ok ive rambled of course not sleeping.
Jstar, first, I am so sorry you are going through this. Being pregnant is hard enough but having a 2 year old on top of it while going through this...wow.
I would like to know some information--how long have you been married, when did the affair start, what is the OW like, has he cheated before?
I am doubtful that conciliation services will work at this point though (b/c affair is still in place) but maybe you can get some financial support from it. Are you filing a legal separation? How long have you been doing LRT and how long will you do it?Are you waiting for him to file for D? Do you plan on letting him see the baby after birth? Do you think he wants to be involved in his children's lives? Would your H would file for D just to get parental visitation?
Also, you should know that my WH left when I was 7 months preg as well, but wanted to keep helping me with the house, stay involved with the pregnancy, be there for our son. He swore that he would never flaunt OW in my face or talk about his "relationship" with her. He has kept his word so far.
We started divorce paperwork in March, then changed to legal separation to keep insurance (I am taking a year off from work). We went to a therapist together and separate. The therapist told me my WH was genuinely confused,that I didn't have to write off the marriage yet. We never filed any legal paperwork, he has left 90% things here at the house. We did divide the bank accounts and I opened separate account. We drafted a parenting plan, financial support plan, each kept a copy for ourselves, showed our therapist. He gave me phone numbers to mediators.
We never went but I went NC with him for remainder of pregnancy except for dr. appts and birthing classes and I let him be at the birth BECAUSE
1) I was terrified that he would not bond with the baby and not be involved in his life and
2) I hoped it would help "wake him up."
Well, he bonded with our son but he did not "wake up." He even lived with me in a separate bedroom for a week before the birth and 2 weeks after. We discussed the divorce at that time; he admitted he didn't know if that's what he wanted but he didn't think it was fair to make me wait for him. Nothing happened.
I let him COME OVER to see his baby as much as he wanted because I wanted him to bond and I did not want OW to bond with the baby. He has been over 6/7 days each week, pays money, and I just started letting him take our baby Saturday mornings to OW--the hardest decision but am desperate to implement my no chasing/no pressure plan--part of the 180 believe it or not! A
The reason I am not doing Plan B now is that I can't bare to let the OW see my baby that often AND I am seeing some small changes in his behavior with my current plan (within last 2 weeks). I called a divorcebusting coach who said to keep this up until New Year's, then reevaluate.
Jstar, I look forward to hearing the answers to my questions and I recommend that you start your own thread so other people besides me can help you! :-)
P17,
this is to answer your Q about the stage of the affair.
Based on what I read, affairs last 6 months-2years. If my H started the affair as an EA in August 2008 (it became physical October 2008), it has been in place for 1 year 4 months.
I exposed it to our family and friends when he "moved in" with her April 2009 (7 months). He had 9 months of secrecy.
So, based on the fact that the affair is not shiny and new anymore*, and he has had the opportunity to "live the fantasy" for 7 months now, I figure he might be starting to realize she wasn't everything he was imagining.
I figure that because he hasn't taken action (that I know of) to file for D, he is not 100% sold on the idea of spending the rest of his life with her.
At the same time, he hasn't ended it yet so he must not be sold on the idea that he should stay with me.
SOOOO, I am hoping that at this time he is comparing and contrasting the two of us and I am kind of in competition with her. SHE is most likely starting to relax and show her true colors since they have had 7 months together now.
Hopefully by being the best woman I can, it helps to improve me for a future relationship with or without him AND makes me look like the better option.
I could be completely wrong and full of sh*t but it motivates me to have hope and keeps me from filing for D.
*when a new romance is in its beginning stages, the lovers will listen to no one and only want each other. (Then again, some affairs end immediately on DDay....)
I don't believe he's having an affair at all, i m doubtbul that he will since the last time we were seperated he dated someone and knew what it did to me. but then i reallyhave no clue. he has only said words that he would nto do that again, doesn't want to totally mess things up with us since he knows if he did it again i would never take him back, not taht his words anything at this point.
We were legally married in feb09 but together for almost 3 years if you count the 9 month seperation.
during our time together there has been many stressors of me loosing both parents, grandparents, a miscarriage. i think me needing him so much he just couldn't take it.
he says to me well weeks ago, he has to figure out how to let go of his anger, we saw a counselor once and she said to eliminate all people who were against us not getting back together, to committ to eachother and children and work each day to reconcile, give it a time frame if not improved then to divorce. i was committed but he felt like he was being controled and pressured. so i finally just started doing lrt.
you mention alot about bonding with your son you are a far better person then me. he is not even concerened, well i bet he is he just doesn't know how to do soemthing about it. just like he thinks one day he's going to wake up and suddenly realize he's not angry with me anymore. as i asked him and the counserlor asked how was he going to let go of the anger, answer is nothing but dead silence.
i believe which i can be totally wrong that the closer the birth comes the more he's gonna flip out. in the sense of he's gotta get his crap together. with doing lrt i don't even want to send him my scripted comment about the birth. i think any contact i make he will see it as persuining him which will push him even further away.
Jstar, sorry, I thought your H was having an affair.
I think Divorce Remedy is such a smart book! So is Getting Through to Your Man (I think it's called).
I honestly don't know what to do in your situation, since I've never dealt with marriage problems before this-- (His f&*^ing affair)
why does he have anger issues? Maybe conciliation services will help you since he's not cheating on you!!!
I can guess to why he is anger, probably because i call him on everything and don't let a thing slide. we have issues of his family hating me because apparently me arguing with him infrong of them makes him loose face and feel imasuclated. his mother even called me on my profession that while i'm arguing with my husband i should be acting like a teacher. i don't feel he takes my feelings and how he should b emaking choices seriously until i tell him to get out then he stops and pays attention.
we argue about what money he does make goes for his mother and father, thus another reason they don't want us together. she has even gone as far as to say that i killed the other baby i was pregnant with and trying to kill the one i am pregnant with present day. i should be so enthused to have our d2 watched by her and have to pick her up at their crappy apt each day?
i also call him on him continually choosing his friends and family over me. after i work all week, not doing anything together all week, he wants to go hang with his friends because he feels obligated to them.
all i know at this point is that i'm employing the lrt been 2 days since any contact and i think that is my only hope of ever saving my marriage. i mean i totally doubt things all the time.
i have bot Divorce Remedy and DB. i have to keep rereading the lrt and remember that any action thought of pursuing will push him away.
I love my baby but it's hard taking care of him by myself every night and day. My baby barely sleeps during the day, too.Sure, WH would be quick to remind me that he is over here so many hours. But he will never ever know what it's like and what I am going through. I read on other websites how the BSs want their WSs to "get it"--to understand what they put them through. But that is an impossible request. They will never know. And if we want them back, that is another sacrifice we are choosing to make. To take them back knowing they will never understand what they put us through. Also, we would have to forgive them for not being able to know!
??????????????????????????????????????
Jstar,
LRT sounds good in your case! But so would be reading her other book, Getting Through to the Man You Love. It retrains you to not nag or belittle (even if he is totally wrong and you are right) but to praise, be specific in exactly what you want, and praise some more.
So you could try to work on yourself while doing LRT (I know you're pregnant and have a 2 year old) but you could choose one goal like being complimentary. When you have to see him for some type of approved reason, be polite and compliment him.
OH- you can do this to his mom, too! Start complimenting your H when you talk about him and kiss her ass, too!
I know you don't want to, but it might make your husband stop and realize you are changing, something he didn't think could happen. Then maybe he would be willing. This takes a long time and I would use the divorce busting coaches if I were you--it will cost you about $375 for 3 sessions and you have to use all 3 with no refund if you don't. I have my 2nd session on Monday.
i've done the mom talking to before but we are at such ends that i am not even allowed to step foot in her house. they hate me that much and have alterior motives. as long as my h is there she sees him as a way out finincially. she mentioned to him when he first left she wants to rent a house of course with my h because he has always been the one child out of 6 to continue to support them. my father in law is allowed to work in the usa but is not skilled, not a go getter and prefers to use my h has his crutch. mother in law is illegal never worked in her life and just kisses her husbands ass.
with my h at their 2 bd aprtment with 3 adults and 1 child he is a built in husband substitute for her and provides them with money. i've tried to explain to him that there will never be anything i could do "right" in her eyes. that his parents have a different plan for him, me not in the picture and will continue to put those things in his ears.
i used to try to not find fault in his mother because ultimately it is my h who chooses to accept to do things for her. thus why i always believe he chooses them over me.
Jstar,
Wow--he is totally enmeshed with his parents. Is there some middle ground or shall I ask...what is the most you are willing to put up with regarding his family? I don't think it's realistic to expect him to cut them out, you know?
How is NC going? Did you say you have done it before? Do you think your H believes you will keep it?
Thanks newmama for replying to my thread. I've started reading yours and want to finish since I'm getting a whole lot from it.
Thanks again for stopping by my thread and commenting!
Day by Day
About my sitch--yesterday WH picked up our baby to take him over there, came back, gave him a bath and left. Usually he hangs out longer! Here is a boring recap:
He told me that he fed him baby food (over there). For some reason this bugged me and he could tell. He asked if I was okay to which I replied yes! Then I asked him casually when his day off was next week and did he want to get the tree then. Sounds good.
He asked if it was fine if he helped me take the decorations out today instead of yesterday, then left.
He sent a text around 7:30 last night asking if our baby was still stuffed up. I replied and he sent one back saying "you guys have a good night" I replied "okey dokey you too"
Okay so this is silly but please let me know what you think
Today I will be deflating the mattress in the spare bedroom to make room for some stuff that I have to move out of the living room. This is the bed he originally took to his apartment, brought back when he was staying here after our son's birth, and I assume would be sleeping in it for awhile if we R.
Good or bad to remove the bed or neutral?
We also have stuff in the office that he keeps saying he needs to move...but hasn't, along with 99% of his other things.
I guess I am worried that I will be encouraging him to start to move the stuff and then finish the D paperwork.
thoughts please???
Day by day, I look forward to following your thread, er life, too! sad that we have to be in this situation but the support and encouragement from others really helps.
Well no one answered my question. Sigh. I decided to wait until Wed to have him take the decorations out. It will be the same day we are going tree chopping.
On his way over he asked me if I wanted anything from Taco Bell (our favorite fast food restaurant) so I got something.
He didn't bring his work bag!
I decided to try and "act" like my old self which is chatty, cheerful, joky, bubbly. I have been "polite" but nice. The only thing missing is saying "I love you" and swatting his butt or giving him hugs and kisses (I am affectionate). Oh and I can't really ask him about what he's been up to since it is with OW!
So I have worked out, showered and am on my way to grocery shop.
There is a football game this Thursday...I want to watch it because it is a Civil War game with my alma mater (spelling?) He wants to see it too. Usually I go out on Thursday nights but will skip it this week and make nachos for the game.
He has a terrible cold so I keep showing my concern and told him if he felt horrible I don't need a "day off" and he could stay home to rest. He said for selfish reasons he comes to see his boy but is just trying not to cough on him.
Go buy 2 big cheap tupperware containers.
Toss all that stuff in it.
Place it in the basement or garage.
When he comes over. Tell him you packed it up already for him and tell him where the containers are.
Let him move them out.
You have already helped.
As for the mattress. Remove it. Say nothing. Do what you need to do to live in your house.
ITS YOUR HOUSE.
Remember removing stuff can be very therapeutic.
Thank you Cutterbug! I will just remove it before he comes over. Easy, simple and non confrontational!
Okay he left. So I came back from grocery shopping and asked how his time went with our baby. I showed him a cute santa hat and booties that I bought. He liked them. I know we aren't supposed to talk about the future BUT I just said that we should have have our baby wear it when we get the tree on Wednesday and take some pictures.
I made some dinner (just for me) and he told our baby how he'll get to eat the yummy food mom makes some day.
I said that our baby was going to love all of the lights in the house and it's too bad we couldn't find a place for the tree in the den since that is where we hang out. (We usually put it in the front room) WH suggested that we move the love seat in the den and put the tree there. I said that my family would need to gather around and I don't know if we'll have room. He said that people could still hang out in the front room and we could put the fake tree there.
I am only mentioning this because when I have brought up Christmas talk he doesn't comment and gets quiet. I am not saying that by conversing with him today that it is a good thing, I just hope that by me talking about it like we will have Christmas with or without him that he at least feels some longing, you know?
Then he played with our baby and showed me some new moves.
As he left he said in an upbeat way you guys have a great night,and I'll see you tomorrow! I said okay, I hope you can feel better and try to just rest. See you tomorrow!
Let's see.. another small but possible "overanalyical" observation. At times our bodies touched when he was holding our son and I kissed him goodbye or when I held him and he came over to pick him up or say goodbye. In the past, I would have pulled away quickly if his hands touched mine or our legs touched. This time I just let them touch. He didn't pull away either. I KNOW that's not a big deal, but I wonder if he noticed I wasn't pulling away like I have in the past.
every fight we get into he runs home at the age of 29. he has never lived seperate from his parents, oh wait for one year he did during our first seperation, but he chose to rent a house 2 blocks from his parents since they would be over 3=5 times a day or him over at his moms 3=5 times a day.
he doesn't have any domestic responsibilites at his parents, no cooking, no cleaning, no laudry, he just says mom i'm hungry and she'll cook him something. we've spoke about this before, i said sounds like you want a wife that will have 6 kids, stay at home, be happy living in a dump, no future, no retirement, will be at your beck and call, just like mom. he would always say, no that's not what he wants, i'm the total opposite, i've worked my while life, served in military 13 years, a vet of 2 wars, master's degree steady job for over 10 years.
so could i find common ground with his parents? i think boundaries need to be set with them. h wants me to have a relationship with them, i need to have them not count on h for money, he needs to set them before i'm going to do anything.
as far as being dark, i'm doing it, gonna set a time limit by the court, we have our appointment tuesday, if he shows.
Go buy 2 big cheap tupperware containers.
Toss all that stuff in it.
Place it in the basement or garage.
When he comes over. Tell him you packed it up already for him and tell him where the containers are.
Let him move them out.
You have already helped.
As for the mattress. Remove it. Say nothing. Do what you need to do to live in your house.
ITS YOUR HOUSE.
Remember removing stuff can be very therapeutic.
Exactly what I was going to say. He is still cake eating and he will never make up his mind about which way he will go while he has the best of both worlds - a beautiful, loving and caring wife, a new baby and bit on the side ....
Let's see.. another small but possible "overanalyical" observation. At times our bodies touched when he was holding our son and I kissed him goodbye or when I held him and he came over to pick him up or say goodbye. In the past, I would have pulled away quickly if his hands touched mine or our legs touched. This time I just let them touch. He didn't pull away either. I KNOW that's not a big deal, but I wonder if he noticed I wasn't pulling away like I have in the past.
Newmama,
You need to let this stuff wash over you. I could tell you countless stories about me and W before I went NC being close and touching but one I will re-iterate here as it's graphic and is also completely meaningless (now).
My W came over a couple of months ago. We went out for some food, came back, she bent over to go into the cupboard to get the plates. Without being too graphic, her bum was in the air and I had to squeeze past. The only way to do that was to push, hard at her bum, as I was going past. It was very graphic and very sexual. If I had done the same thing to you, a friend or anybody else they would have hit the roof. How many people tolerate you pushing your crotch at them? Nobody. Especially not a WAW who has a new man and doesn't want to be near you.
Last time W was here she sat right next to me on the sofa. This time, I felt uncomfortable. Things had come full circle. I believe she was trying to be close to me and not the other way about.
My point is that he could have wanted to be close to you for a thousand reasons (as PDT said to me about the above statement, maybe my W was horny!). He may not have even noticed.
I don't say this to be nasty. I say this as I know what you are doing when you analyse this stuff - you get hope. I've been there, got the T-shirt as has most of the people on here. At the end of the day, the only person that this hope kills, is you.
Look on those things as being nice or being close or just even being a coincidence. Please don't read anything into them as there is unlikely to be anything there to read. (I actually don't believe I'm saying this stuff ... how far have I come in a few months!?!)
[quote/] Without being too graphic, her bum was in the air and I had to squeeze past. The only way to do that was to push, hard at her bum, as I was going past. It was very graphic and very sexual. If I had done the same thing to you, a friend or anybody else they would have hit the roof. How many people tolerate you pushing your crotch at them? Nobody. [/quote]
Ha ha P17! Did you thrust too? I just have to laugh at the description, not the message. I hear you.
I guess I am just really looking for small changes to indicate I am making results. But you are right!
Jstar,
I meant what is the most involvement with H's family that you could tolerate? For example, if he stopped paying for them but
continued to see them 3 days per week, would that be acceptable to you? I am not saying you SHOULD, I am just asking if you COULD...it is unrealistic to expect him to cut them out (not that you are wanting that) so what are you willing to tolerate?
What specific conditions did you set for him in order to reconcile?
I wonder if because last time you took him back that he is just not taking this seriously.
Good job with NC!
Also
I just had my DB coach session and here are highlights:
It is GOOD that my WH brought up getting the tree.
It is GOOD that I stayed calm and confident while WH was silent during the Thanksgiving meal. My coach thinks silence probably meant it caused him to feel some reality of his current actions.
My coach thinks the acts I listed (H offering to get me starbucks, lunch, continuing with compliments, being pleasant) indicate my plan is working to at least stall the D (which is the goal in this--to BUST the divorce).
My coach also said WAS often push buttons or test us when they see we are changing for the better because they don't trust if it's for real. BUT we need to stay the course and keep calm to prove we are for real.
He did remind me not to read too much into anything positive or negative over the next month because the holidays create magical experience that alter reality for the best or worse. So, just take the enjoyable times for what they are.
I asked him if it was realistic to think he could end the A this month, with the fact that Christmas is near and he and the OW may have made plans...purchased presents for each other...like it is bad timing to break up with someone. He said that it would be wise for me to not expect things to end between them this month. However, holidays bring about tension and conflict, too, so it isn't completely out of the question.
I asked about moving the stuff. He said it could cause WH to
1)think I am preparing to move on without him
2)bring up D talk
He said it isn't bad to try and push the issue. WH could say he needs to let me go and will file the paperwork. He asked what WH would say if I did 180 and said "That's very selfless of you. Thanks" I AM 99% CERTAIN THAT HE WOULD PROCEED!!! So the coach said "really? hmmm" not the response I was looking for.
The coach said that many WAS do feel like they HAVE TO DIVORCE because it is the only option due to the mess they created and it's only fair to the LBS. Still, they don't want to lose them and procrastinate, thus they hold all the cards.
So am I ready to be divorced yet? No. Therefore I won't be causing conflict this month. But I feel myself getting prepared for that reality. The holidays are not the best time to make this happen.
I still think plan B is in order in January, so I need to be preparing for how to do it. The only IM I can think of is a relative (my SIL) who is a friend to the marriage. The only other people that know live in a different city or are family. My 2 work friends don't like WH.
Ha ha P17! Did you thrust too? I just have to laugh at the description, not the message. I hear you.
I did thrust. I was testing her. She never even flinched. If the roles had been reversed I would have smacked my head off the top of the cabinet.
I guess I am just really looking for small changes to indicate I am making results. But you are right!
Small changes are what you need to look for but notice them and recognise them and move slowly. They are only one part of the jigsaw.
As PDT, my hero ( :)) said once, when their words and actions match up, over time you will know they are telling you the truth.
Take it slowly. Enjoy it.
My evening highlights...positive signs from WH:
he had seconds of my meal
he cleaned the kitchen after I cooked (used to do this but it has been several months now)
he found some brandy in our cabinet and took it out for me-- I had some for the first time on Thanksgiving mixed with apple cider and had told him how good it was.
he stayed past the time he normally does and we watched a show together
Not so positive:
he said he needs to get the monthly schedule made but hasn't gotten around to it- I just said "Oh" shrugged my shoulders, and changed the subject.
EARLIER today my SIL and MIL came by to visit our boy. They asked how I was doing. I said "good," and explained I know he may still file for D but I am not applying pressure right now and that I am waiting until after the holidays before I implement some more drastic measures.
My SIL says she can't bear to talk to her brother since she wants to wring his neck. BUt she does love him and knows he is just lost right now. Both she and her mother do not talk to him about the A currently and are confident it will end. They say it doesn't seem to matter if they talk to him about it so they are just not saying anything. However, the OW is not welcome in their homes and that was all they told him awhile back.
My SIL is a former BS. Her ex husband divorced her 2.5 years ago, moved in with OW, moved out after 9 months (she kicked him out) and 1 year ago started groveling and asking for my SIL to reconcile. My SIL met someone and was in a relationship at the time. But they broke up. SO in July, her exH asks her again to reconcile....says he wants to marry her all over again. She said only if he was willing to go to counseling and make major changes. So that is what they are doing currently.
My SIL hinted that what caused her ex to really see what he is missing was to learn she was dating someone. I told her that I hear what she's saying, but can't justify dating while we are still technically married. I do think I could do it if he files for D...like that same week. (I started a profile on match.com awhile back just to remind myself that I could still get a guy if I wanted. :-) Like I said in another post, nothing serious, just get back into the dating game and take my mind off of WH.
I know there is risk that some of what I was talking about could get back to my WH. But here is what I said--I was not applying pressure, I don't want to D, I won't sit around doing nothing forever. So if he hears that, it is nothing I haven't already told him. (I did not talk about divorce busting or strategizing, etc.)
Wow, it seems like I have been super focused on this today. Tomorrow I will take a break and do some Christmas shopping!
One more thing, last night and tonight before WH left he said a jovial goodbye "Okay, well I'm going, so have a good night and I'll see you tomorrow!!" where in the past it has been "Okay, have a good night. I'll check with you guys in the morning"
By the way, I reply the SAME no matter if he is jovial or not "You have a good night too. See you tomorrow."
I will just indulge in my analytical observations until I go NC-I am at least trying to keep my reactions and behavior consistent no matter his mood!!
I think you're doing a good job! The feedback from your DB coach also sounds positive.
DBD, thank you. I KNOW what I'm doing is not what most BS do. I don't recommend it for most! I know the odds are slim to none that I will succeed in drawing my WH back. But I am inspired by a few success stories using this method and by this saying:
"Before the A, the WS compares the BS to the OP. After the A starts, the WS compares the OP to the BS."
So if he wants her in the end, obviously I made the worst judgment call on what kind of person he is! There goes my track record...
On the other site I go to, I saw that 24/28 BSs filed for divorce before their WSs did, many within months after DDay. It did not bring their WS back and I think it has to do with the newness of the A that P17 was talking about. Maybe they didn't want their WS back, though.
since i've gone dark i won't contact at all. had concilliation today in court, he did not show up for the meeting. i'm not going to break my silence, i'm gonna let 3 weeks go by to when i'm on xmas break for 2 weeks and if no change, see attorney about issues, maybe break silence to discuss birth, give him my boundary on it.
when you don't respect me and give me no support during the pregancy it makes me very angry and hurt. until i see you respect and support me i see no reason for you to be in the delivery room. it will tell him he needs to do soemthing and he can either choose to do what he is keep doing or he change.
about the in laws, i'm not even tackling that one at this time.
Jstar, be specific in what you want him to do to respect and support you and change. I know you probably think he should "know" this but outline a small list so he has no excuse in saying he didn't know.
Ayayayai!Am PISSED OFF today.
1) Brown nosing can indicate brown nosing for purposes other than R. WH asked me yesterday if he could take our baby for a couple of hours longer on Saturdays. He was taking him 7-11 but now wants to take him until 1. Gee, the 90 minute round trip drive to OWs house is cutting into your time with your son?
I reminded him that at his age, there is a maximum amount of time in the parenting plan for babies to be away from their mothers. He said really? I haven't looked at that plan for awhile. (50% of our divorce paperwork is the plan by the way)
2) It is stupid of me to not move the stuff-I told him today that I am deflating the bed and putting the stuff in the spare room (BTW the stuff is MY things from my classroom)He said "Okay." What the hell was I freaking out for earlier?????
3)WH brought up plans for Christmas. Wants to take son on Christmas Eve during the day for a few hours but won't be here on Christmas Day, not even for the morning. Great, so he and OW will be with our baby, but our baby won't get to have his FIRST Christmas with his own parents. Not that he would notice luckily, being so young.
I WILL NOT BE ARRANGING A CHRISTMAS PARTY FOR THE 3 of us! I did get him a gift but it is just because he is the dad -it will be from our son-, and my family (full of divorcees) has always been nice about getting the ex a present from the kids. Gee I have learned a lot about how to be divorced from my family. So I won't have to start from scratch. Lovely.
4) I honestly don't have an IM for Plan B. I can't go dark for it due to the baby visitation situation. I can join the Y and just leave for the full time WH is here with the baby on his 3 evenings after work, no dinner, just Hi. Going out! Then come back when he has put the boy to bed.ALSO I can tell him that on his day off, when he visits, he can take our boy for 5 hours, but not to spend it at the house anymore.
5) Now that WH has bonded with our son I am not worried that he will ditch him. I am now strong enough to follow through on Plan B. I was not a month ago. I want to do the divorce busting but this can still qualify because it is the 180 of what I have been doing. And I don't regret not doing plan B sooner, because now I have left him an impression of me in a better light than before.
6) I don't know if I need to write him a letter since I will be seeing him still.
7) I was full of sadness last night when he was discussing the schedule with me but tears only welled up, they did not fall, and I kept my voice steady. He was sitting far from me so I don't think he saw my eyes. Usually he says something!
we are off to go get the Christmas tree. I wonder what it will be like when I hang all the stockings except for WH's. He has one with his initial. Should I hand it over to him and say here you go? You can hang this at your girlfriend's house?
grrrrrr...............
newmama, if you need an IM why don't you ask someone from this board - I know it's done on other boards - it will be only email contact with WH won't it - it might be easier for someone who actually doesn't know him.
bestrong,
thanks for the idea, but WH would need to pick up our son for visitation so I would have to see him. Ideally, an IM transports the child to a neutral location right?
Okay I am proud for doing something today. When we were discussing the visitation schedule, I spontaneously asked if he could watch our son on the 19th evening which is a Saturday. I have only asked for one Friday evening before (was a dance class and was back by 8:30)and never Saturday evenings. This is because I was determined to not let him watch him on an evening where he could take him to OW. BUt now that I have allowed him to take him to OW on Saturday mornings, who cares at this point.
I told him if he couldn't do it, then I could find a babysitter from one of our families. He said no, he would do it but is there a chance he could take our baby overnight and bring him back early in the morning? I said no, not yet--not ready for that. But I would be back by 10 probably..just need to be gone 6-10. Then I asked him if I should always check with him first for babysitting if I want to make plans on Friday or Saturday nights because it would be no problem for me to find a family member. He quickly said, no, I can do it!
I also told him that I didn't know for sure yet but will know within a day or 2.
My event is an ugly holiday sweater happy hour get together. I didn't tell him what it was, and he didn't ask.I just said I have something from probably 6 to 10.
Then, today I left to go to the store but ended up not going there. I just talked on the phone for a couple of hours. When I came back, he asked if I needed help unloading the car and I said no I didn't go after all. He said "Oh you just escaped, huh?" and I smiled and said nothing.
I also asked to change the schedule AGAIN on a different day! This is good because I am exerting some independence which up to now, I have been rather passive (on purpose) and just go with the flow. I figured I should change things a little.
Also, as we were working on the calendar, he looked at New Year's Eve and asked me if I had plans (it's a Thursday night so that is when I usually go out). I told him that I hadn't even thought that far ahead. He said "me neither. I don't know what I'm doing yet."
I mention this because he never talks about his plans with OW (out of respect to me) and I thought it was odd that he didn't just reserve that night just in case. I mean he still could, but when we were married or when I had a boyfriend before, it was understood we would be spending New Year's Eve together whether we knew the details or not! So maybe he isn't sure if he will be with her that night! He also could have said "Ok. Do you mind if I take that night off and then come to see S the next day?"
Oh and I am pretty sure that OW is not part of his work group anymore. I asked how work was going and if there were new people there. He said oh yeah..lots. The only other original people left in my work group are K and J.
I told him that I hadn't even thought that far ahead. He said "me neither. I don't know what I'm doing yet."
I find this comment very strange. New Year is such a special time for new lovers - seeing in the new year together, kissing, hugging, making vows to be faithful (ahem) and 'here to a good year for us'. Why hasn't he made plans with OW? Are you sure everything is rosy in WAH / OW land?
Can I ask why you are going to do the NC with him? Things seems to be going well so I'm wondering why stop it all?
P, I was almost scared to mention the New Year's Eve comment because I thought you(or someone) would tell me I was overanalyzing! LOL Not that it stops me from doing it! :-)
So it struck you as odd as well? Hmmm...
About NC--it would be after the holidays. I just know if I kept this up, it would turn to eternal cake eating. If I close the bakery, he will need to make a choice but will be left missing those yummy cupcakes, so to speak. So the goal is to leave a good lasting impression to make the memories rosier. I have been watering the grass over here! Soon it will be time for him to notice OW's lawn is looking kind of matted and yellow. Ewww...wrong analogy to use....
I haven't run the NC/ plan B by my DB coach yet either so I don't know if it will be the right thing or not. But I do feel like I am getting ready to deal with divorce if that is what he chooses after NC. I wasn't ready before. Also I doubt it would be 100% NC with our visitation schedule.
bestrong,
thanks for the idea, but WH would need to pick up our son for visitation so I would have to see him. Ideally, an IM transports the child to a neutral location right?
yeah that's true
P, I was almost scared to mention the New Year's Eve comment because I thought you(or someone) would tell me I was overanalyzing! LOL Not that it stops me from doing it! :-)
So it struck you as odd as well? Hmmm...
It is overanalysing
He could also have been lying. However I can't help think that it was a strange thing to say. Maybe they just haven't talked about it yet as after all it's 4 weeks away. Either way, you would expect his plans for New year would be with his 'love' which we both know is OW. It would be straneg for him to spend it with anybody else.
About NC--it would be after the holidays. I just know if I kept this up, it would turn to eternal cake eating. If I close the bakery, he will need to make a choice but will be left missing those yummy cupcakes, so to speak. So the goal is to leave a good lasting impression to make the memories rosier. I have been watering the grass over here! Soon it will be time for him to notice OW's lawn is looking kind of matted and yellow. Ewww...wrong analogy to use....
What you are doing there though is going with NC for HIM. You're doing it to teach HIM a lesson and show HIM what his life without you is like. You want HIM to stop cake eating.
NC isn't about him though. It's about you moving on and healing.
Newmama, you are sounding so strong now. Congrats.
The NYE comment may be guilt or he is fishing to see what your plans are? I found it strange too. I don't know what to think of it.
Keep watering your grass!
I know that NC is supposed to for me but it doesn't make sense for me to use it unless I want him back. Otherwise, why should BSs do NC? They should just divorce if all they want is to heal and move on!See what I mean? NC is also a test like you (P17) have been saying. It tests our WSs to see if they can live without us and it tests us to see if we could handle the reality of divorce if they give it to us.
I feel like doing NC is like putting all your money on red when playing roulette. So I want to be mentally and emotionally ready to lose it all (him and half of my son) if I do NC.
Just my opinion!
Daybyday, thank you for the encouragement...luckily I still feel strong today. You know that damn rollercoaster!
I talked to my other best friend last night and let her know what I am doing, what I want, and that I have been scared to tell her.
She said she supports me, understands why I want to stay married, and will be able to accept WH if we R.
Phew!!
Tonight WH and I will be watching a college football game together. Normally I'm not into football but this is my college and a very historical game and I would be watching it with or without him!
So far I have decorated the tree (without him) and am working on the mantle. Hmmm...2 stockings or 3? I think I'll put up none until the time draws closer.
I know that NC is supposed to for me but it doesn't make sense for me to use it unless I want him back. Otherwise, why should BSs do NC?
It does. What NC does, at I'm at the very early stages, is allow us to move on with our lives. It allows us to get to the place where we can make proper decisions about our future without emotion or worrying about the WAS. NC is for US as it allows US to be US.
I think NC is this - I am going on a journey just now to heal, grieve and become the best person I can be. At some stage the WAS has to come to me and say one of two things - either let's try again or let's end it. When they do I will be prepared for either and will be able to respond properly and without falling apart. I will be able to do that as my journey will have allowed me to detach.
They should just divorce if all they want is to heal and move on!See what I mean?
If you have read anything about divorce you know that is a huge step to take where nobody wins. I am not ready for a D yet. Not because I don't want to move on but because emotionally I am not prepared yet. NC will allow me to prepare for that.
NC is also a test like you (P17) have been saying. It tests our WSs to see if they can live without us and it tests us to see if we could handle the reality of divorce if they give it to us.
It does, but that is not the purpose of it. That is a side-effect.
So far I have decorated the tree (without him) and am working on the mantle. Hmmm...2 stockings or 3? I think I'll put up none until the time draws closer.
If it were me I'd put up 2.
ok, P17, I think I get it. NC is to help the BS detach, heal and prepare for either outcome. I don't see it as allowing me to move on with my life entirely because NC is still limbo!
But I can see where you can say a "side effect" is getting WS attention! Well put.
ok, P17, I think I get it. NC is to help the BS detach, heal and prepare for either outcome. I don't see it as allowing me to move on with my life entirely because NC is still limbo!
NC isn't limbo. Again this is just from what I see of it.
In fact NC is the opposite of limbo. Limbo is living at standstill waiting for the WAS to make a decision. NC allows you to get time for YOU and for you to heal, prepare and GAL. It allows you to do that in isolation of the WAS so that you get the time to heal without interruption.
My case, in my opinion, is the classic explanation of this for me.
W came over once a week or so to see D. I had a bad day before she came around (sometimes 2), the day she came around was bad, the day after, then I had a couple of good days in between and then back to bad again. I got 1-2 days per week to heal and 5 days of pain. You can't heal like that. I needed to heal in isolation of WAS so I had 2 good days, then 3, then 4 until I got to have mainly good days. My situation was living in limbo (nothing changing).
P17, that's the best explanation I've read of what NC is for. I think I get it now and will be able to implement it much easier. Makes it easier to detach after reading that.
Think I need to print it out and post it on a mirror.
NC is no contact. I will agree on that. And I won't be able to do it with my situation.
So I decorated the tree and the mantle yesterday with no stockings yet. WH came over and said nothing about either. He is usually an observant person and notices small details. Later, he and I watched the football game so he stayed an hour later than normal. No major incidents. My team won!!! WHen he left he reminded me he would see us on Saturda. I said ok. See you later! and headed up to bed.
Today he texts me to let me know he does have plans the same Saturday night that I wanted him to watch our son. He asked me to ask his SIL or he would see if he could change his.
He goes on to say that he wants me to get out. He knows I get stuck in the house and he appreciates all I do for our son.
So I ask his SIL, she says yes. I text WH back and tell him she can watch him and then add that she said she is available most fri or sat nights for the future, too.
It sure didn't sound like he thinks I am going on a date! I'm not but I never gave him any indication to think I wasn't! I just said "out from 6 to 10ish."
I won't be putting up stockings on the mantle this year. I don't want a reminder of H not being here.
Try not to mind read that he doesn't think you are going on a date. At least he knows that you will not have your plans messed up on wknds if he can't watch your son. You will still be going out GAL!!
good point, daybyday...it is at least telling him I am ready to start planning "things" on fri or sat nights!
There's your silver lining.
He is getting "brown nosy" again...via texts...
just got back from visiting his sister, mom, grandma, cousin, nephews...they were all at my SIL's house. Just made me realize how we will be connected for life no matter what happens because of our son.
They support me at least, and I make it a point to try to look good, act strong and cheerful so it's obvious this isn't destroying me.
Great job newmama. You did the right thing @ SIL's house. I would hope to be that strong!
He is getting "brown nosy" again...via texts...
Did you think he would do otherwise?
WH took our son over there around 7. I went back to sleep and slept longer than I wanted to, then watched a little TV, had breakfast, worked out (not as long as I wanted but just wasn't feeling it). I checked the calendar schedule and it said 7-12. When we talked, it said 7-1.
I texted him with this question b/c I was trying to decide if I should go to the store before they came back. He replied "12. I am gradually increasing it to make it easier."
Wow, what an honorable man! (sarcasm)
He came back, I was in the shower. I came downstairs and he was feeding our boy. He said he chose the green beans so I could give him the fruit at dinner. He bathed our baby and I came in to check on him. He said that it was nice of me to take our son to see everyone yesterday. Then he asked me to pick out an outfit for our boy to wear.
I told him we would be going to the store, then visiting my grandma. He asked if I needed anything else and then said he'd see us tomorrow, have a good evening! I just said "ok, see you tomorrow."
Sorry, nothing exciting. I plan tomorrow to just be gone as much as possible for the 12-5 time he is here. This is going to be a long month....
oh, I should add that I made a hair appt for Wed when he is over here on his day off. I plan to go shopping for some clothes and Christmas presents, then get my hair done. I will return with new hair and shopping bags.
My aunt offered to babysit sometime. So I am trying to find plans.
Also, am still working on moving stuff into the spare bedroom while removing the bed in there...just need someone to watch the baby while I do it or at least I need him to sleep for 45 minutes! I don't know if I want to use my babysitter for that purpose or something more fun! :-)
Made another plan for the 16th and he will be here, so he can see me leave all dressed up, wearing contacts, new clothes, etc. I'm still losing weight every week...down 35 pounds now.
So that same week I will be going out 2 nights! Maybe I will meet a new friend!
Today's update:
I managed to avoid WH most of the time he was here.I told him that I made plans for the 16th and he said "Cool."
I worked out for a full hour, took my time getting ready and found a sexy blouse to wear for the 16th when he will see me leave!
When interacting with WH, I was cheerful, and hummed Christmas songs.Before I left to shop, I put my contacts in.
I had a fine time shopping and returned to see that WH fixed the Christmas decoration I asked him to and had our son all dressed up in his Christmas outfit for a photo like I had asked last week. I made a big deal out of how great the decoration looked and how adorable our son was in his outfit.
WH seemed quiet today. He commented on the Christmas wreath I put up on the door. He also told me that he noticed something I forgot to put on the tree--candycanes. I told him that I didn't know if I'd be decorating the tree with them this year. Before he arrived, I put up more decorations but won't be doing all of them this year...too much to unpack and put away with a baby!
All today, I kept thinking about what to do and or say IF WH gives me D papers after the holidays. (I don't have ANY GUT FEELING that he will do this BTW) I keep practicing so that I won't cry if he does it. But if the law of attraction is true, then I don't want to spend most of my time dwelling on the negative. I just want to not be blindsided at the same time, you know?
So I picture myself informing him that This is entirely his choice but obviously there is nothing I can do to change his mind. I will tell him that I will go away for a couple of days and need him to take all of his stuff out while I'm gone. He can leave the tools in the garage for now. I picture informing him that we both need to get used to the custody plan so we should revise it and be following it more closely. Then I will ask when we should meet with the mediators and tke our custody class.
I also picture him asking if we could talk. He tells me he has been thinking a lot and misses our life together. He says he doesn't know if we could ever get over this. I will tell him that not every couple can but we are not like every couple. I will tell him that I am scared but that I have missed our lif too. Then ????
So I still feel like it is more likely he will want to R versus D....my gut says this. I am scared to trust my gut because what if it only works when things are bad?
When WH left today, he definitely seemed sad.
Remember their moods: BAD = GOOD, GOOD = BAD
Thanks for the positive comment, P17!
Tonight for dinner I'm making ginger chicken with begger's purses (potstickers).
I noticed he keeps asking about cookies. I'll be baking them this week!
that sounds like you should post the receipe
I just want to say,for the record, IF I DIDN'T HAVE A CHILD I would do a fantastic bang up job of the Plan D!!!! Seriously! Whenever I broke up with someone in the past (either he dumped me or me him) I completely got rid of all evidence of relationship, never called or emailed, and started dating. (well after a few days to weeks of mourning first) And I got over the SOBs!
I imagine I would do the same thing with my WH--would have moved out to an apartment, arranged to not be at the house at the same time when getting my stuff, and dealt with him as little as possible while mailing in the divorce papers.
Would I have done Plan B? Doubtful. NO children, less than 5 years married.
But having a baby changed everything. A baby means it isn't as easy to rip up the photos and erase the emails and throw away the DVDs CDs Gifts Furniture that reminds you of the person.
You will have some kind of relationship with the spouse for at least the next 18 years.
Oh, and I am NOT saying it is easy for others who do not have kids to rip up their memories and move on! I am just saying for me, that is the dysfunctional but effective way to deal with it:
out of sight, out of mind. And that is what I had always told WH. I mean I told him that is how I moved on from previous relationships--no staying friends, just moving on and forgetting.
I told him that I threw away as much evidence as possible. And when we split in March and I asked him for his ring in April, he wrote me a note asking me not to throw it away because he wanted to keep it to remember us. I chuckle now because he thought I was going to throw it away--he remembered what I told him about "Out of Sight Out of Mind."
Is this why he makes it hard for me to keep him out of sight?
So tonight WH shows up with a new tree topper-- last week when he put up the lights on the tree, the tree topper star was broken. He said he would pick up a new one if I wanted. I had said it was okay, sure.
I made the meal and it was tasty! I highly recommend the pot stickers--I just used Jimmy Dean's pork sausage and only made like 16 instead of 40 as the recipe called for (froze the extra for another time). There was a side missing of some kind--no rice or veggies. I like veggies, he doesn't.
He liked the meal and thanked me for it. Our baby was very tired tonight so he fed him, bathed him and quickly put him to bed.
We watched the final episode of Amazing Race. Both of us made chit chat. He stayed late again to finish it.They were in Las Vegas--we went 3 times together and had lots of good memories.
I talked to my friend that I used to be afraid would ditch me due to my decision. She asked me how I was doing. At one point, she asked how long affairs last. I told her that I read 6 mo-2 years. She said wow, I guess you have about a year left. I asked her what she meant and she said that if I was going to wait out the affair, then I probably have another year to go.
Wow. Would I wait that long???I just don't know.
She said that I had been through the worse already. I told her divorce would be the worst because I would have to give up full access to my son!
She asked if that changed my opinion on how long I could wait out the affair.
????I am just afraid that if I waited another year, WH and I would practically be strangers and how hard would that be to reconnect?
So I am just holding out as long as I can take it. Plan B is the only next option before D.
I just realized something--it has been 11 months since I discovered the A. Maybe I could stick it out for another year.
What else would I be doing if we D'd? Dating aimlessly? Being with my son less? Everything else would be the same... working out, cooking, going to events, improving my housekeeping skills.
I just saw a post that referred to a woman who tried to date to make her WAH jealous and it backfired on her!
So now I am nervous about my plan to be mysterious! couldn't I still tell him I am going to a wine tasting party? the mystery is he doesn't know the people but he can be assured it's not a date.
????
Hi there! I've been addicted to your blog now for awhile!
I wanted to add something about letting your WH think you are dating.
I think it is ok to just plant the seed for him to ponder the idea of it. He is going to need to really consider this as a possiblity in the future regardless.
I know my H's biggest fear EVER is the idea that his baby girl and son will look at another man as their father - that this foreign man will have more access to his kids than he will.
Your H really needs to swish that possibility in his mind, IMO. Not that you have to actually date, but eventually you will.
From my (limited) point of view in reading through your entire thread, your WH has it made in the shade and is totally cake eating right now. Unfortunately, he is also building memories and getting more entrenched in his new life and trying to figure out how to mesh his old life with the newlife w/ OW. I think you being so sweet, nice and there for him is making it very easy for to make this transition. He sees/knows that getting back w/ you as a possibility - there are NO threats on his side or with his baby. (Yet, he is putting you through those threats by taking baby to OW,,,,awful!) I think if he actually considers the possibility, that could make him REALLY understand to the full extent of what he is doing.
Can you imagine what he will think if he knows the possibility exists that some other man could see your sons first steps or hear his first words? Right now, that thought may not exist, at least not to where he fully feels it as a possibility.
I think you have done an amazing job so far, really amazing! I love what you wrote earlier about leaving the rosy memories, the yummy meals, happy attitude, but then shutting the bakery - perhaps to reopen for a nother man to fill those shoes in his absence.
Ravenly, thank you for your opinion! I know it's crazy that I am doubting doing something that every person tells me I should do. Seriously, only 3 people on the internet have doubted this decision. My family, friends and in laws say to do it--the same people who support my decision to stay in the marriage.
The reason I still question it is because I am scared it will make him think I do want the D now and he should let me go.I guess he would at least discuss it with me first, right?
I guess it is necessary. It's like the game playing we do when dating (at first). Oh isn't human psychology fascinating?
BTW The new memories with the OW have 5 years of tradition to compete against. And who are they celebrating with? Her enabling family? Not his!
I completely understand your concern - totally!! (Although I seriously doubt he would just up and D you because you are now suddenly unavailable - I doubt this is his motive for waiting this long)
What about just planting the seed - nothing definite just clues that point in that direction? Use the GOOD = BAD, BAD = GOOD theory on HIM.
Next time he comes over, act as if you are so excited to leave you are practically bursting out the door. Dress up really sexy, (I'm thinking a cute plaid school-girl skirt, fishnet stockings and cute boots paired w/ a snug fitting top) put on some different perfume, leave some victoria's secret bags folded up discreetly yet where you know they'll be spotted.
Come home gushing with happiness, daydreaminess and sexy confidence. Barely look at him, as if your happiness is truly your own without him. I bet it will make him wonder.
That should make him wonder, without saying or doing anything.
Yes, it is just like when we are first dating! Most people want what they cannot have. It is human nature.
Right now, he truly has the best of both worlds. He has an amazing wife who has given an open invitation to a delicious life. You've given him the slightest taste of what it could be like. Now, I think that by shutting off that invitation, and FORCING him to be on the outside looking in at what he is NOW missing, will force him to realize what he has lost in you. Let him sit on the other side of the window looking in, unable to join in on all the fun, and the great life you have created for yourself, your son and potentially a new man who will treat you great.
Have an amazign Xmas party, WITHOUT him. Let him see all the fruits of what you have sown, and he was not able to enjoy. Let him go back to that LAME O party that OW has thrown - complete without his precious baby boy.
If you're going to date, tell him. I sent a text to W, which got absolutely no reaction. Not sure if she cared or not but it was a good text.
If you search my thread for messages from PuppyDogTails then you will find it.
Was short and to the point.
P17, thanks--if I decide to date, I will tell him. But I'm not dating!
The outfit I have in mind is a dark purple low cut wrap blouse that accentuates my waist and hips with a necklace that will draw the eye to the cleavage! My body isn't ready for a skirt yet...need a few more months!
Ravenly, thanks for the compliment about being an "amazing" wife haha! I don't know how great I was before but what ticks me off is that I wasn't done improving and growing! We were barely married! Oh well, now I am doing a good job and won't revert to my lazy ways. Ever.
I know he is cake eating (without the icing)--I am letting him.
COMPARE/CONTRAST. Need to figure out the plan B after the holidays...all I can think is he can take our son on weekends or his day off (part of the time) and he can come to the house after work but I will leave to go to the gym and won't cook.
What if I don't have what it takes to go through with it?
WSs do what they want anyway. Who really knows if what we do makes a difference in whether or not they end their As?
P17, thanks--if I decide to date, I will tell him. But I'm not dating!
The text I sent didn't say I was dating either. It said that I was 'going to see what was out there for me too'.
What if I don't have what it takes to go through with it?
What if you do? You won't know until you try.
WSs do what they want anyway. Who really knows if what we do makes a difference in whether or not they end their As?
It's not about ending their affairs, unfortunately. It's about healing and protecting yourself from more pain OF their affairs.
If you're doing it to purely get him back it won't work and your efforts would be best put into something else (more DBing).
NC and LRT are for people willing to risk their M's as it could just as easily kill it as save it.
Don't tell him your dating. Just do it. Word travels. Date can just be a night out with a single friend of the opposite sex.
And if he asks if your dating. Don't say yes. Deploy WAS fog.
State " You wanted me to be happy, right? Well I am being happy"
Leave it at that.
Here is my problem: I agreed to 50% custody. According to our parenting plan based on the experts' recommendations, I chose to not be selfish and do what is best for my son. When he turns around 1, we will each get him half time.
The reason why is that I did not know my biological dad. I met my stepdad after my mom married him when I was 4. He was my dad growing up and we fought until I became an adult.
I have a boy and children need to form a bond with same sex
parent. I want to do what's best for my child--oops, gotta run real quick! to be continued
So anyway, my son deserves both parents in his life and his dad will be more important way down the line. I do not want him to be in the middle of a parent tug of war.
The idea of giving him up for shared custody in the divorce rips me in half. Soooo that is why I am scared to push WH in the direction of D.
Doesn't that make sense?
Tonight-- little to report. WH got here later than normal. Instead of calling me to tell me he is on his way, he sent me a text 20 minutes later than he normally leaves. I couldn't help but think "He has been talking to OW. They got into a fight. Now he is late." I KNOW it's mind reading but it amuses me!
So he arrives and tells me he has been thinking about pinot gris on his way here. He pours us both a glass. We chat about our boy's day. I work out, make dinner. I made a comment about making chocolate cookies. He asks me if I will add cayenne- he remembered that yesterday I told him how it seemed all the cooks on the food network liked ro add cayenne to their chocolate recipes. (This is the old WH- paying attention to things I said, referencing them later in seriousness or a joke.) We enjoy dinner and watch TV together. He puts our boy to bed a little later than normal. He says goodbye and leaves.
He was here 2.5 hours; I saw him 45 minutes altogether (tops).
Nothing bad, nothing shattering.He liked my dinner, took my plate to the sink. Here is a fun overanalytical bit: I had to squeeze past him and brushed against his tush. Later, he lifted his shirt in front of me to scratch his tummy for longer than a second.
I think I forgot to add that my SIL came over earlier. She asked me if I wanted my toenails painted. So she visited for a couple of hours and gave me an earful about stuff. Mostly her experience with her exH and her boyfriend. I found out for sure that OW is not welcome in her home and WH has not talked to her about Christmas plans. There is more but I am tired!
The idea of giving him up for shared custody in the divorce rips me in half. Soooo that is why I am scared to push WH in the direction of D.
Doesn't that make sense?
I completely understand that.
How would dating push your H into a D? You would only be doing what he is doing (and not even that as you would be committing adultery). If he wants to live in an open relationship then what is good for the goose ...
P17, I don't know how jealous you are of a person, and my WH is not abusive or anything, BUT he does get very jealous. I am scared that dating will make him pissed off and will push him to file the D.
Or dating will send a signal to him that I am over him and he should, out of guilt and being "noble," grant me the divorce.
I am open to hearing the opinions out there--I am just discussing my fears, not setting anything in stone! :-)
By the way, I am in the other room He is here today. He came near as I was typing and I shut the cover on the lap top quickly--just like HE did back when he was sneaking around! ha ha ha!
One thing really sticks out at me - The wine. I don't know why but that gesture seems really out of place when his sole purpose is to spend time with his son. I mean, it's kind of a romantic thing to sip wine with the opposite sex. An adult activity he is sharing with you that has nothing to do with his visit to his son. I hope that is not too overanalytical but it just really jumped out at me. However, maybe he drinks wine everyday/often and just wanted to relax there...Who knows.
About him seeing you close your laptop: Delete your history. If he was at all curious about what you were doing online, don't let him see what you are really up to. Would take all the mystery out of it plus you wouldn't want him telling OW and having her snoop on you here.
As far as his emotions towards you dating: Thats why I would seriously keep it as a suspicion not fact. If he does get pissed, I would take that as an extremely positive sign there is still something there for him. Do you have any real idea as to why he hasn't filed for D yet?
Lastly, and I have no idea if this is overstepping my boundaries here so if it is please just ignore it. But, I think 1 year old is way too young to do a 50/50 even split. I have an 18 month old and cannot fathom only seeing her 50% of the time. 1 year they are still just babies who need their mommy fulltime. I totally get that you want them to forge a bond after what you went through, but there is a massive gray area between what you experienced, and a suitable custody arrangement where the child is as least disrupted as possible while still maintaining a r'ship with dad. Personally, I can see 50/50 being possible at 4-5 years when they are old enough to understand/be told why their routine is shuffled. At 1, I would fear bouncing back and forth too much is just so hard on them since they are total creatures of routine/stability. Your H is making this decision, NOT you, NOT your baby. He should be the one making the sacrifices. Any 50/50 should keep the baby in YOUR home with him just increasing the visits to YOUR home w/ baby. Not baby going back and forth. Ok, off my soapbox and I REALLY hope I didn't offend you in anyway its just from my own perspective as a mom of two very young ones.
Ravenly--no problem! I don't remember now if the 50/50 starts a 1 or 3, but I do agree that it sounds like it would be very disruptive to his routine. It's such a hard thing. I feel for all the kids from divorced families. I pray to God every day that WH will not D and choose R.
I think you are right that he should come to my house for visitation if we D, BUT how does that work if I have a boyfriend?
As for not filing, we don't talk about relationship stuff and I do not bring up the divorce--part of my divorcebusting plan. I have only noticed him being nice to me and I don't know what it means.
About the wine--not a big deal unfortunately! Serving me is kind of extra nice, though!
I do hear what you are saying about being suspicious of dating. If someone is suspicious, it doesn't mean they will actually do anything major, right? Just ask questions and try to confirm their suspicions?
Today he arrived with starbucks coffee for me.He sent me a text asking while I was asleep so I thought it would be too late to let him know but he just brought me my favorite drink anyway!...I can't help but remember that he used to always get starbucks for OW last year. I knew about it and didn't think it was suspicious. I think I figured she got it sometimes for him too. And there were other people in their work group who sometimes ordered coffee too.
Anyway, so I got to work baking cookies right away, and we made chit chat while he took care of our son.Sometimes there was silence too. I left to get my hair done and when I returned we took photos of our boy. He wished us a good night and said he would miss our boy.
So let's see...there were a couple of things that stood out to me as good. (now remember I do overanalyze but who cares!!! :-) I know that actions are more important.)
1)I was singing a song and he picked up on it and started singing too (on purpose, not subconsciously)
2) At least 3 times he moved right next to me-to look over my shoulder at the camera photos, when I was leaning over the paknplay to play with our baby and when I was icing the cookies.
3) He said that if the weather was bad this weekend, he would still come over but that he would not drive back and forth to anywhere (okay so this may not be a big deal but I am just kind of waiting for the day when he says he won't be taking our son over there)
My hair looks gorgeous by the way!!
I would say that his actions are positive! And you sound pretty strong and the gorgeous hair is a nice boost!!
I also came from a broken home where my father was noticeably absent...It was hard. Our set up was the every other weekend thing, which would've been fine but he was never around on those weekends (Left me with evil stepmom), never showed up to my basketball games or track meets or the plays I was in. Those were the things that created a distance between us and was difficult for me.
I love reading your thread, I really familiarize myself with it. My previous sitch was very similar but also vastly different. My WAF(iance) left me and my son when he was just 5 months old. However, I knew for WAF that it was 100% over and didn't make any attempt at reconciling with him, nor did I want to when I found out he cheated. He also wanted nothing to do with his son, so when I came back home (I moved 2 hours away from home to be with him) I made it my mission to find a good, decent, stable father for my son while he was still young enough to not know the difference. (hence the diffs in ours sitch's)
I know how hard and lonely it is parenting a baby yourself - it has an entirely different set of tribulations that go along with it. Guilt is something us mothers feel towards our tiny ones regardless, but when they get a bad start to life right off the bat it just intensifies those feelings so much. I totally understand what motivates you to try so hard to your M work and commend you for that! I do think you are doing an amazing job and are an amazing person for stepping up to the plate the way that you have. In addition, I am also not the best/cleanest/motivated housewife and most of my friends are not, either. All of us get lazy in some aspect of life, it just happens. Do not blame yourself for that or think that justifies him - it happens to all of us!!! (Especially when you are pregnant for petes sake!)
BTW, I am QUEEN of overanalyzing! While I think to a point it can be unhealthy, to some degree it is theraputic for me to really think things through as it gives me a feeling of control when reality says I really don't have much.
As for him being super nice...I think it could be super bad (Buttering you up because you truly DO hold ALL the power when it comes to him and his son)
or
super good (He wants to keep things open with you in case things with OW don't work out).
YAY! on the gorgeous hair! I bet that made you feel GREAT!
As for visitation if you have a BF: A few things on this. First, I guess until things were really serious between you and new BF, you could just schedule your time together on opposite days WH comes over to drop of your son. OR have him hide out in your bedroom
haha. But, eventually, your WH is gonna have to see him - especially if its gets serious enough to where you move in. I can't fathom that WH would enforce a double standard that OW can see/hang w/ baby but your BF can't????? If so, tough! Again, his choice NOT yours.
If he does get suspicious and ask questions, just be evasive about it and tell him you are making lots of friends and seeing where things go - nothing serious (yet). Do you really believe he would up and file a D in a rage of madness because he just suspects your dating w/o confirmation?
I think the idea is to just let him mull the idea of it (you dating) around awhile in his head so that he can see the ramifications of what he is doing. Like I said, my H's biggest fear is that some other man would step in his shoes and take his place. That fear for him is HUGE. I have no idea if your WH has really considered that as a possibility based on his own actions. Perhaps if he did, and felt that jealousy rise up, it may make him stop and think about his life with OW and how it compares to what he is giving up. (ie, it doesn't!)
I think the idea is to just let him mull the idea of it (you dating) around awhile in his head so that he can see the ramifications of what he is doing. Like I said, my H's biggest fear is that some other man would step in his shoes and take his place. That fear for him is HUGE. I have no idea if your WH has really considered that as a possibility based on his own actions. Perhaps if he did, and felt that jealousy rise up, it may make him stop and think about his life with OW and how it compares to what he is giving up. (ie, it doesn't!)
Ravenly, this makes complete sense. I really see the suspicion of dating as being something good for our marriage now!
About you parenting alone after your WAF left you and your son--how hard. I really do get some help from WH 5-6 days/week so it could be worse!
I was so worried WH was going to be minimally involved or out of the picture. That would be all it would take for me to wash my hands of him (of course). However, I did have a flash thought today that it would be easier in many ways if WH wasn't around. Like you did, I would carefully be on the lookout for a man who could raise him as his own! I am very happy for you Ravenly!
yay! I figured out a better way to quote text!
I forgot another tidbit--at one point, WH was talking about a new hamburger joint and wanted to know if I had heard of it. He said it was close by and he showed me the website.He was saying how good the food was supposed to be. I was expecting him to ask me if I wanted to go! I was actually nervous. But he didn't.
Not that asking me to go would mean anything.
Here is the thing about my WH--he hints a lot instead of directly asking for stuff. Does this mean he is passive aggressive?
So for example..."what are you making for lunch? Oh. Brats would be good too" (instead of "can we have brats for lunch")
"that shirt looks kind of big on him. Maybe he would be more comfortable in a different one." (instead of "We should change his shirt--it looks too big."
"I usually put a towel down to catch the drips." (instead of "could you please put a towel under next time? It really helps)
"you could turn left, but that street gets backed up with traffic" (instead of "No, keep going and turn left at the next signal")
get the idea? I forgot why I felt the need to explain this about him...maybe because I was thinking he was hinting about the hamburger joint and was waiting for me to ask him?
I don't think it's passive aggressive, just a passive way of stating things. He's avoiding putting any responsiblity on anyone and it weakens his statements. Just not being clear.
I think he's afraid to state what he wants.
Good that you can see it clearly even when he's not speaking clearly.
Update on today....not much. (absence of bad news is GOOOOOD!)
Got a friendly TM from WH this morning. When he came here from work, he was nice and liked the pics I picked out for Christmas cards. Then I went to my Bunco game and had fun.They noticed I lost weight so that felt good! When I returned, WH inquired about my evening and told me how it went with our son. He wasn't in a hurry to leave and lingered at saying goodbye...check in with us tomorrow...etc.
He noticed the kitchen was sparkly clean. (It was a disaster yesterday from me baking cookies)He made a comment about how "we" blah blah blah. I just waved goodbye and told him to be careful on the icy roads.
I am doing something totally sneaky...the cards we will send to our friends and family that KNOW about the A will have only our son's pics, name and age on them. But I am still not telling my friends from work and they are expecting cards so I am creating another set for them that says our names and has photos of us. I had to find one that doesn't show WH's left hand because there is no ring (I know it's pathetic). BTW I am not wearing my ring but haven't since third trimester of my pregnancy so I thin people assume that it just doesn't fit yet.
I figure if WH files for D, I can always tell them he blindsided me with his A and not tell them I was waiting for him for so many months. I mean almost this time last year I was blindsided (aren't we all) and didn't know what was going on and in March, I was 99% ready to D. So it is possible.
I mean if we R, it would be nice to have some people that didn't know about the A for us to be around, you know?
Anyway, about 2 more weeks until Christmas. I am just looking forward to getting it over with. At least I have my beautiful baby boy! Sorry for the pity party--I do not believe in feeling sorry for myself too often because it is not productive.
Damn I wish I knew what he was thinking!!!!! But asking him directly is just useless. I do feel like I am doing a good job today and the last few days at staying calm and in control of myself around him. I saw this in Newcomers by Norm14 quoted by Puppy Dog Tails:
I don’t know how I do it. I guess I just keep thinking, “If you want to bust this A and save your marriage you must control yourself.” And, in a bizarre sort of way, I feel a sense of control. They think they know something I don’t. But I know, and that gives me a sense of power. At times, I view them like two little kids who are playing hooky from school and think they are pulling something over on the teacher. At the same time, I am able to feel forgiveness (but not tolerance for the A) for them both. They’re human, and they’re doing what humans sometimes do, even if it is the wrong thing to do. They’re confused, although they don’t realize it.
In my experience, people who are able to master the above attitudes about their sitch, are the ones that are the most successful in being able to DB. By far.
Puppy
So when I am feeling in control of myself, and I am CONFIDENT the A will end at some point sooner than later (whether or not we D), I will be inspired by this post!!!
NM, I posted on your other thread. You sound good here.
As far as NC, see what your DB C says. But I can tell you how it is for you. When you are NC, your spouse is not forefront in your mind. You are forced to start building a new life without them. You stop watching the tiniest actions and you disentangle from them. Also, your anger starts to drain away.
For me, it was good and helpful. Don't know if it is right in your situation.
I mean if we R, it would be nice to have some people that didn't know about the A for us to be around, you know?
Those who are nice to be around will not judge you based on the A. And 5 to 10 years down the road. Most people will have had enough on their own plate to deal with, so its a non issue. Plus how can we explain away the grey hairs...
Forward, NC would be the easiest way for me to detach. It is not going to happen though unless he ditched us. Thank you for posting on my other thread- I hadn't checked it out in weeks.
I'm sorry about your sitch but at the same time you sound healthy!
Cutterbug, You are right ultimately. But I have a friend who didn't tell everyone, her H was remorseful, and she was relieved to not have to deal with the tension and judgment toward her WH when they hung out with them.
my aunt came over, we baked up a storm, I will need to work out for an hour tomorrow!
My pathetic fake cards have back fired on me...WH was going to pick up the original ones tomorrow. I ordered mine to be ready by Sunday. No, they are ready now! So I will need to beat him to get them before he sees them. I did call and told them that I didn't want him to see them bc it was a surprise and to hold them for me but I had no time today, there might be a freezing rain storm hitting tonight...what to do! If I can't get there before him, I will call and ask them to put them under another name....
Oh the web that we weave when we plan to deceive...this is why I am such a bad liar!! I would make a terrible WW!ha ha bad joke. I am able to talk honestly about stuff that WH and I do with our baby bc we do stuff. and like I said no one asks about how WE are doing so I don't have to lie.
how is tiger woods different than Santa? He doesnt stop after 3 hos.
no freezing rain! I got the pic cards this morning...phew!
I came back from the cookie party. One person asked me about what was going on and it was so busy and loud that I was able to feel comfortable talking to her about it without addressing a large group. She was supportive and I figure she would tell everyone after I left. It's okay--different people than my work--and I know my other friends want to know what's happening. Part curiousity part concern. She made a Tiger joke and I laughed but said WH wasn't that bad because he was only doing one other woman (come on, it's been 8 months so I can have a sense of humor about it in a way!)
When I got back, WH was here to pick up our son. He asked me if I got his text message. I said I hadn't checked. He said "You're going to be mad!" I said "Really?" He told me to check my phone. I was trying to think what he would have sent me that would make me so angry...something about divorce? What? He has such a poker face. I checked but didn't see anything. So he said it probably was still on its way but I would be so upset. So I asked him WHAT was it? Turned out that when he was picking up our photo Christmas cards, Guy Fieri from Food Network was there signing books.
(Actually I knew this because I saw the sign this morning when I picked up my secret cards and I was sooo disappointed that I couldn't go back to see him!) I accidentally said "Oh yeah, I knew he was coming." WH was surprised and said 'Really?" I quickly said that I saw a sign last time I was there but didn't really register the date...that I knew he would be here on a Saturday but didn't realize it was today.
So then he said he took a picture of him and showed me on his phone! He took several pics and I was rather touched by that! He knew I liked him and although it was super crowded (he hates crowds) he still took some pictures! I patted his arm and said thank you so much! He resent the text and this time I got it. Really, I was surprised and very excited that he got some photos!
Then he asked me about the cookie party and wanted to know who was there, did I have fun, how did they like our baby, etc. Lots of q's.He also said that he hoped I would take some time to relax while he had our son.
I thanked him but said other than making a candy cane martini, I would be rather busy doing stuff. (After this post, I am working out and doing laundry, cleaning up the mess from yesterday, etc.)
Oh and earlier I asked him to get some stamps too but only if he was going to get something else because I didn't want him to have to wait in those long lines just for stamps. When I came home, he got the stamps but also picked up some diapers even though we had a lot. I think he got them just so he could get something else.
Candy cane martini: equal parts vanilla vodka, peppermint schnapps, lemon line soda. Shake together with ice. Water the rim of your glass and dip in crushed candy canes. YUMM! Even the guys like this drink! (And it's sooo pretty!)
Very positive day!! I'm happy for you!!
Thanks DBD! Today I admit I wasn't the happiest. Just neutral with a few jokes thrown in here or there. In fact when WH came over, I was still in my pajamas, hair undone, yesterday's make-up. I didn't look terrible though.
Not much to report...nice again. He helped me pick out a different car seat for my car...I think originally he was going to buy it for me but I just took over on the purchasing part. I mean it's his money anyway; he is supporting me while I'm at home this year.
He said my cookies were good. He thanked me for mailing out the Christmas cards to his family.
He told me I was so good with our son. I told him he was, too.
I made a comment that I was having a lazy Sunday (although I got a lot of chores done)and he said everyone needs a lazy Sunday now and then!
When we were measuring S's length (I thought he had grown significantly because his pants are shorter), I straightened S's leg while WH measured. WH put his hand almost completely over mine as he measured-twice. I mention it because there really wasn't a need for both of us to hold his leg!
But although my DBing efforts could be resulting in a "nicer" WH, where are the actions from him that I need? Sure, I am getting thinner, becoming a better cook, housekeeper, more knowledgeable about relationships, meeting new people. But I would be doing this without DBing on top. The point of DBing is to bust the divorce in order to get a chance at reconciliation. So where's my recomciliation??? Okay, so I have been trying this for 4-6 weeks I think.Lost track. I guess I remember reading we need patience and perserverence (and I am praying also...am not a church goer but have always believed in God). I have one DB coaching session left so I want to save it for after Christmas.
I guess I am succeeding in not giving up and in stalling the divorce.
Before he left, I had done my hair and make up and got dressed again in a different set of pajamas! (I did chores and worked out prior.) I'm sure he noticed!
He noticed alright. Us guys are better at noticing things like that than you think.
Thanks P17! I can't wait til he notices my outfit when I leave to go out on Wednesday night!!!
Thanks P17! I can't wait til he notices my outfit when I leave to go out on Wednesday night!!!
Make sure it is sexy while leaving most of it to the imagination. The most important thing - a positive confident smile.
In fact when WH came over, I was still in my pajamas, hair undone, yesterday's make-up. I didn't look terrible though. This CAN be sexy...think Kate Hudson...you know if it's true or not.
He said my cookies were good. He thanked me for mailing out the Christmas cards to his family.
He told me I was so good with our son. I told him he was, too.
I made a comment that I was having a lazy Sunday (although I got a lot of chores done)and he said everyone needs a lazy Sunday now and then!
This is nice, but it screams MOM, and not lover....it's REAL, but it itsn't wehre you want your compliments....from him. RIGHT NOW...you want those compliments from women...the hot ones from him...that's how you will KNOW you're moving in the right direction
Thank you, sgctxok! But I don't know if it's all bad because I was not domestic before our baby was born. I was hoping it would show "wife."
So if he tells me I look good, that's pretty much the only "lover" compliment I can think of unless we were a couple. He used to only give me compliments about our "love life" before... was not good at complimenting me on the stuff he does now.
So other than looking sexy and good, what else should I be doing to elicit "lover" compliments from him? I mean I am not going to cross the boundary of having sex with him (not that I have that option).
Tonight, I made Bobby Flay's grilled chicken phad thai and potstickers again. he liked it and cleaned up after. We chatted about little stuff like groceries and our baby's eating habits. He mentioned something on the news. I worked out. He did joke with me about "only child" comments...We (I) are/am only choosing to have one child. I get lots of crap from people.
I was telling him how I told the Bunco group that I (did not say "we") am only having one child. I told him the things they said (he'll be miserable, lonely, spoiled, unhappy,etc.) I told him someone gave me a comment to use: "If you have one child, you are a parent. If you have 2 or more, you are a referee."
He said just to tell them that I'm having one child so I can spoil him and raise him to be lonely. (har har) My old WH!
So other than that, rather quiet. Is it good that I say "I" instead of "we" when talking about stuff? I am doing it more and more. He still says "we" a lot. Sigh.
Should I flirt? I don't know if that makes it look like I am chasing or not. I was thinking of making some "that's what s/he said" comments because he does that a lot. And something came up that would have allowed me to say it.
Isn't it possible that WH is just thinking I am completely fine with "being friends" if we divorce because I am acting so nice?
Or do you think he remembers that I told him that I did not want the divorce?
I would say yes. What have you to lose. But you have to do it right. Flirt like a tease and not like you want him, if you see what I mean. It's a careful line though. I'd watch carefully to see how he responds.
Isn't it possible that WH is just thinking I am completely fine with "being friends" if we divorce because I am acting so nice?
Or do you think he remembers that I told him that I did not want the divorce?
Your H, to me, just seems to be normalising and having his cake etc. He is still with OW and I think until he is forced to choose, you will be like this from now until the end of time.
I was also thinking about you saying you are only going to have one child. What would he say if you were thinking of having another - obviously with somebody else?
My thinking there is that he has a tie over you and has something that no other man will ever have with you - a child. He's marked his territory (you) in that respect. If you sow the seed of doubt that another man may mark his territory too, I wonder what would happen.
Tread carefully with this though. Sow the seed very very slowly otherwise he will see what you are doing.
I was also thinking about you saying you are only going to have one child. What would he say if you were thinking of having another - obviously with somebody else?
It would not be fair to my son if I had another child with someone else. If we D, I would get my son half the time and then the next child would get to be with me full time. I can't do it!
Your H, to me, just seems to be normalising and having his cake etc. He is still with OW and I think until he is forced to choose, you will be like this from now until the end of time.
Yes, normalizing is right. But I won't be doing this until the end of time!
He is over here today and just asked me if my SIL knows about Saturday night. We weren't even talking about it- he was thinking about me going out, I guess. I wonder if he remembers tomorrow night?
I am also betting that the OW will be the one to force him to make a decision...like DBD's WS and his OW are doing.
It would not be fair to my son if I had another child with someone else. If we D, I would get my son half the time and then the next child would get to be with me full time. I can't do it!
You misunderstand! I never said you had to have a child. I was asking what he would say if you talked about it. Make him jealous - have him realise what he is missing and leaving?
Oh....I see now! I will think about it!
I am also betting that the OW will be the one to force him to make a decision...like DBD's WS and his OW are doing.
Hmmm. Then maybe let her? The more pressure she puts on him the more he may push away from her?
That's what I am thinking...I know my approach is cake eating (without the icing) but I just now got a compliment about my cooking...I am surfing the net and WH is looking at the paper and he casually says "it's pretty cool that you are doing all kinds of cooking. It's really good, too. You didn't do that before." I just said "yeah, I am at home and I wanted to try to be a good cook...so I am going for it!" and he said "yeah, I guess you were working before so that can make it hard." I told him "I guess you cooked more! Thank you for that."
He IS noticing my changes!
And then he changed the subject about some expensive Northface fleece...
newmama,
How do you want to play this out? Statue quo forever is unacceptable, right?
My situation was different- 14 month in-house separation with 2 kids (no A). I don't know if you would call the truth darts. But after many months of DBing with little changes on his end. I started making small mentions to the possibility of D- confidently, calmly and off the cuff remarks on rare occasion. I also started to pull back some more and more from the friendliness and conversation. I just gave very small minor hints about the direction things would eventually head if the way things were continued. Irony being that he was insistent that we were going to end up divorcing in the future.
Could you in a sly way leave up dating web sites? If you hubby sees them you could say "yeah, I've started to think about it, I mean I would love for us to be together again but if you don't want to, I need to start to think about moving on. I just am nervous about introducing son to another man you know. Hmm *sigh*"
Are you gutsy enough to do it? I think it would really shake him,
Maybe something like- people keep telling me I should start dating, I'm not sure yet. I just worry about finding a guy who would love our son as a father should. I mean it's not just about what I would like in a guy, I have to make sure he would be a good father.
Or out of the blue, I've been thinking about dating, when are you filing?
Or just Have you given any thoughts to filing? If he starts to talk about it. Maybe state- well just so you know I am still against divorce and I would love to have a marriage with you again but I can only express my wishes- you have your own decisions to make. I have been doing a lot of thinking about things as of late though (leave it vague, maybe)
Can you tell us a lot more about this OW? Details please
"yeah, I've started to think about it, I mean I would love for us to be together again but if you don't want to, I need to start to think about moving on. I just am nervous about introducing son to another man you know. Hmm *sigh*"
"well just so you know I am still against divorce and I would love to have a marriage with you again but I can only express my wishes- you have your own decisions to make. I have been doing a lot of thinking about things as of late though (leave it vague, maybe)
That just sounds like pursuing.
"people keep telling me I should start dating, I'm not sure yet. I just worry about finding a guy who would love our son as a father should. I mean it's not just about what I would like in a guy, I have to make sure he would be a good father."
That sounds good though.
If the OW is pressuring H then I would steer clear of anything that looks like pressure from your sure. If you give her enough rope, maybe she will hang herself ... metaphorically speaking of course ... ahem.
Could you in a sly way leave up dating web sites? If you hubby sees them you could say "yeah, I've started to think about it, I mean I would love for us to be together again but if you don't want to, I need to start to think about moving on. I just am nervous about introducing son to another man you know. Hmm *sigh*"
I DO have a profile started on Match.com. Yesterday, WH was glancing toward the laptop but it was open to something innocuous (sp?). I really think that your suggested words would be really good to use somewhere toward mid to end January!Based on what I know about my WH, I think these words are useful!But too soon. Ihave to listen to my gut combined with the advice of others. My gut has been right usually about bad things, but once in awhile I trusted it for good things and it was right. It's ALWAYS right about PEOPLE. I just am proud of that.
If the OW is pressuring H then I would steer clear of anything that looks like pressure from your sure. If you give her enough rope, maybe she will hang herself ... metaphorically speaking of course ... ahem.
P17, THIS is what I feel could be happening currently. I could be mindreading but I think I want to just hold out a little longer and see. It pains others more than me, possibly, to see me holding out on bringing up D. BUT I have only been acting the way I have since end of October-beginning November. Less than 2 months. I have avoided talk about our R or D since forever-like May.
I want to clarify what I said about DBD's sitch (sorry DBD!).
I mean that it seems typical that someone, us or OP, will pressure our WS to divorce. So, just as DBD's WH has not filed yet, he is feeling pressure from OW to do so. He is lashing out. OW is also reading all emails and EXPECTING WH or DBD to file.
That's why everyone is telling DBD to wait it out...or stall in the least.After time goes by, OW is the nagging and unpredictable emotional one. Ideally, WH realizes that his own BW is not saying anything, is going on with her life, and he starts to second guess his decision. He realizes BW is becoming stronger, more improved, and WANTS the marriage. As the reality of the complications of D come to light for WH, he may just rethink things.
I don't know, just rambling a little, but logically it makes sense.
June, the OW: 5 years younger, flirtatious, pursued other men in the office, sexually aggressive, enjoys video games, partying, works with WH, has a 3 year old with exH, WH supported her through divorce from exH last year.I think this is how EA started.
As far as looks go, her boobs are bigger, our figures were similar otherwise(I am still shedding pregnancy weight currently). She has a lower back tattoo and piercings that she brags about within the first week you meet her. (guess where. I have another friend I've known for 2 years who also has piercings but just told me a month ago.) She has some pretty features, but is not BETTER looking than me ( my point is he did not trade up in looks! or w/ anything else as far as I can tell!)
I did try to make a few flirtatious comments today but it feels so forced! He didn't say anything--no reciprocation. Maybe he was surprised?
I have been keeping my guard up for so long and have been so cautious about being overtly chasing other than stocking his favorite foods or expressing caring behavior about his health.
I need to shed another 15 pounds I think before he starts to see me as sexy again. Just my guess. That was the high end of my weight in the past and our sex life was flourishing. It's funny that it wasn't during the thinnest point of my weight!(when the A started) So if I kick butt, it will be 6-7 more weeks.
She has some pretty features, but is not BETTER looking than me ( my point is he did not trade up in looks! or w/ anything else as far as I can tell!)
To quote Sandi (I think it was), they never trade up. In my own sitch, W didn't trade up wither (but I'm bias).
As somebody else said to me 'of course he's a loser, that's all she could get' ...
She sounds like a big kid. When WH grows up and remembers that staying up till 3am with your buddies and OW playing Call Of Duty on the PS3, drinking, smoking and having fun is actually something you did when you were in your teens to twenties then he may actually remember he has a son, a loving wife and a huge mistake maybe he will come back.
Anyway, just a little rant. You're a good person newmama. He's lucky his son has such a great mother who knows what the word commitment means and how to spell it.
She sounds like a big kid. When WH grows up and remembers that staying up till 3am with your buddies and OW playing Call Of Duty on the PS3, drinking, smoking and having fun is actually something you did when you were in your teens to twenties then he may actually remember he has a son, a loving wife and a huge mistake maybe he will come back.
You crack me up!!!So true!
He's lucky his son has such a great mother who knows what the word commitment means and how to spell it
.
Thank you! It takes 2 to marry--my reminder on how to spell commitment. But how do you spell innocuous? am too lazy to look it up!
BTW there's nothing wrong with video games; she liked more of the games that WH (and most men do. I have found that there are some fun ones out there but just can't compete with WH's skill on the ones he likes!
In my sitch OW is prettier IMO. But she's older, fake boobs, big butt and an alcoholic. But I think I have a better figure, no wrinkles and a better personality and much better morals! I'm just not a bottle blond like her. I think WAH sees her as the perfect trophy wife though. I guess I'm too mild and kind.
BTW there's nothing wrong with video games; she liked more of the games that WH (and most men do. I have found that there are some fun ones out there but just can't compete with WH's skill on the ones he likes!
Of course there's nothing wrong with them. It is currently 2.25am here and I am actually going to play Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 before I go to bed ... then again, I'm currently separated and can get away with that sh*t
BTW there's nothing wrong with video games; she liked more of the games that WH (and most men do. I have found that there are some fun ones out there but just can't compete with WH's skill on the ones he likes!
Looks are only skin deep.
A person's beauty is in their heart. You fall in love with somebody for who they are as a person, not for how big their boobs are or how they look (although, as a boob man I have to say it does help - but bigger is most definitely not always better!).
Oh, mine aren't small at all... just real.
I just have a classy look not a trashy look. Guess that got his attention.
Remember some times the luck of the draw is good looks.
In the grand scheme of things. It is not important. Every person on this world is beautiful. Could be a smile, nice legs, eyes. There is something beautiful in all of us.
Day by day. I will take classy over trashy any day!!!!!
And NewMama. its not a lower back tattoo. Its a tramp stamp.
P17 I was a boob man as well. But my wife had small boobs. And she was so self conscious about it. Used to hide them and not belive in them. So I worked for years on her and this problem. They were beautiful. And one day she realized that they were. It really helped build her self confidence. I have no idea where this thought is going so I will stop now
DBD, do you or have you watched Real Housewives of Orange County?
Those ladies are perfectly attractive to begin with but then ruin it with plastic surgery, bleach, and excess make up! There are many men who are put off by the "overdone, plastic" look. I doubt under OW's "accessories" that she is prettier than you! Your WH sounds like he is in a MLC.
And P17 yeah. most men go for boobs,just as women go for men with decent steady jobs.
Cutter has a decent steady job and with a dental and medical plan.
Cutter is a catch then!!!
Keep doing the dating you have been talking about. Nothing serious but just fun!
Oh I know. I am living my life. Who joins in is their choice. Who I decide to include. Mine.
Plus I hear I look like george clooney
I have been getting the physical stuff from going for a massage therapy. And I take hugs from friends any chance I can get.
Last kiss was with wife. August , near the end.
I really find the lack of human touch very hard. I am not a hand holding guy. But my fav is the rub of the arm. Stare in the eyes and a smile. I miss that very much.
I really find the lack of human touch very hard. I am not a hand holding guy. But my fav is the rub of the arm. Stare in the eyes and a smile. I miss that very much.
Rubbing the arm is a special touch to you? Wow, I wouldn't think of that as being affectionate.
Lucky for me, I can cuddle with my son but I really really miss hugs from WH and quick kisses. I am also hyperaware of any exposure of his skin...like when he scratches his stomach or lifts his sleeves up or bends over....NC protects you from that torture!
Plus I hear I look like george clooney
And I look like Eva Mendes! just teasing. were you?
I have been told several times that I look like (young) Natalie Wood but with longer hair.
[quote]Plus I hear I look like george clooney
I've seen a pic of cutter ... George, you have no need to worry
Plus I hear I look like george clooney
And I look like Eva Mendes! just teasing. were you?
I have been told several times that I look like (young) Natalie Wood but with longer hair.
P17 thats what I was told...
Haha Gotta go with what the ladies say...
Tall, dark , handsome, A touch of ruggedness and a wee bit of grey hair...
Natalie Wood Nice. She is beautiful.
It was a slow rub on the arm. From the elbow to the wrist. With a deep look in the eyes and a smile. I have fond memories of that. It was only done when at parties as we were off talking to different people. Time would stand still for 5 seconds. I miss the hugs as well.
Human contact. Very important.
It was a slow rub on the arm. From the elbow to the wrist. With a deep look in the eyes and a smile.
Well when you describe it like that, it could be straight from the racy pages of a steamy romance novel! Might need to use that move in the future...the Cutter clasp? No, the cutter rub?
I'm getting excited about tonight! I feel nervous, not knowing anyone, but
1. after sharing a glass of wine with strangers, they suddenly become new friends!
2. I take classes without knowing anyone and don't feel shy talking to people there, so I'll "pretend" it's like going to a new class!
3. I might practice flirting but I have only been doing it with my H for so long that it will be weird doing it with someone else! What if I smile too big and slap his arm too hard? Or babble like Bridget Jones did when she met Mark Darcy? (my favorite chick flick of all time tied with When Harry Met Sally)
Tall, dark , handsome, A touch of ruggedness and a wee bit of grey hair...
Sounds like George Clooney to me! Throw in the job with medical benefits and no wonder you aren't having trouble finding women to date!
you should google body language. And read up on it.
Woman use their eyes to flirt. Open them wide when talking. Rub your hand through your hair. Smile. Listen. But control the conversation. Lead it to where you want the conversation to go. GAL and see if you can pick up some new GAL ideas... Make that your goal. 2 new GAL ideas. Don't touch him. Flirting is all about imagination. Watch his face when you touch your hair. Trust me on this. If he looks bored... move on. If he watches look into his eyes and smile.
Your a woman. Us men would enjoy that.
I guess we could call that arm touch the ladybug hello.
Body language is easier for me than the "clever" things to say! I do all right with conversation too. Again, it's being nervy enough to make "clever" sexy comments that freezes me up! But I am not serious about picking someone up so it doesn't matter anyway!
Today I found some sexy fun blouses that look good on my curves! Still extra padding but I have a waist and collar bone again!
BTW Cutter, I know what you mean when you said you built up lady bug's body image and now she is using that to help her with OM (something like that). When I met my H, I could see he was a diamond in the rough when it came to socializing. He could talk to me but would freeze up with others. So I pumped him full of compliments about his wit, funny stories & excellent listening skills. Today he isn't Mr. Charisma but he does talk and interact like anyone else! And he used that new confidence to woo OW.
We saw the beauty and helped them. Its what you do when you love someone. Do not let that bother you. We helped shape them as they did us. That is a good thing.
I just came back from my wine tasting party and had a good time while there, but now I am sad for some reason.
Well when WH arrived here from work, I was all dressed up, looking good, and do you know that he NEVER ONCE made eye contact with me? I swear he didn't even look in my direction!
I take that to be good because I hope it means he was a little bothered by me going out. But it scares me a little too because I don't want it to backfire on me. I mean I never told him what I was doing, never pretended to be going on a date, and was friendly and not over done! Jeans and a cute blouse with hair and makeup and perfume.
So the event was good--just as I was working up the nerve to talk to a stranger, a nice woman approached me and then we got a small group going and then I even got a compliment on my looks!
It was killing me while I was there because I know WH would looove the place and they are going to add a cheese shop to the store and he loves all different types of cheese. Well anyway I ended up buying a couple of bottles, one he likes and one we both like.
So on my way home, I called to let him know I was on my way since I was running a little late and also told him I had to stop to get some food.
Then when I walked in I had the wine in hand. He didn't say an effing word! No questions, nothing! Can't you see I am carrying a wine bag? So I asked about our son and this time he did make eye contact with me but it was fleeting.
So I showed him the wine, he seemed a little interested, but I didn't tell him what I did or anything, and who knows if he could guess. I mean I could have gone on a date and met at a wine bar and bought wine! Sounds like fun, actually! And we both have stopped to get food after going out with friends for drinks before!
Maybe I am sad because I wish I didn't have to do this GAL without him.
Yeah another thing. I thought my close friends supported me. Today I find out that they don't want me to be disappointed if he divorces me, and that it is a long shot that I could do anything to stop it and that I should just prepare for the worst.
I just feel nauseous right now (NOT from drinking! I only had 2 glasses over 3 hours!) but I will go to bed. My optimistic spirit better return tomorrow.
Then when I walked in I had the wine in hand. He didn't say an effing word! No questions, nothing! Can't you see I am carrying a wine bag? So I asked about our son and this time he did make eye contact with me but it was fleeting.
Since you SOUND like you were doing this for him, maybe he noticed that too.
And don't worry too much about his mood and not noticing. He noticed. Maybe his mood is because he noticed? Maybe he doesn't care? You don't know. Either way, keep it up.
Yeah another thing. I thought my close friends supported me. Today I find out that they don't want me to be disappointed if he divorces me, and that it is a long shot that I could do anything to stop it and that I should just prepare for the worst.
Hugs.
They will be there to support you. Married or not married. Do not let their opinion and advice change your thoughts. Observe and retain.
I am glad you had a good night out. I love wine. I love cheese. Enjoy those bottles some night. Another small step for newmama.
What did the store look like? Was it in a nice area? What was around the store?
I hope you are feeling better this morning. It does make it hard to GAL when you are thinking of how WAH would enjoy doing what you are doing or how you'd like to be doing it with him. BTDT.
Oh dear I am sorry you are having such a bad day!!!
First, the no eye contact thing could be really good OR really bad. You just simply don't know and won't because you can't get into his head. I love what P17 said - it sounds like you did all that for HIM, not for YOU, and when he didn't have the response you were expecting, you were let down. I think that is why it is so important to detach for yourself and not for him, not to get him back. You need to be able to detach emotionally from him, and not have ANY expectation of him because he has proven time and time and time again to let you down.
Emotionally detaching helps you to be the best you because you are putting YOU first, not him. The spotlight needs to be away from him, and onto YOU. I also think it will help you make the best possible decisions for your future - Not having your heart dictating your direction but your head allows you to make a more informed, wise decision.
As for the other night, I am SURE he noticed how cute/sexy you looked. He had to - you are female and he is male - it is wired into their brain.
Thanks you guys. I really did not want to pretend to be dating but decided to listen to the advice that 99% people and my DB coach said (be mysterious, look good, make him wonder.)
I got a plain text checking on our son this morning--not the friendly ones he has been sending lately.
We'll see how tonight goes. I'm nervous he'll bring up D.
I got a plain text checking on our son this morning--not the friendly ones he has been sending lately.
I am going to throw this out there but it's mind reading. Just take it with a pinch of salt.
Maybe he realises he is losing you and his son? Your GALing may be paying off.
The other side is that maybe he has made a decision in what he is going to do.
We'll see how tonight goes. I'm nervous he'll bring up D.
Then let him do ALL the work on it. Validate him. DB him. And anyway, from what I understand many M's have been turned around after a D had even been filed, let alone talked about.
Don't worry. You can handle this!
Okay he just replied to my text in his friendly way. I hate this.
Why can't I just tell him I went to a wine tasting party with new friends? Isn't that still intriguing? Men were there! If it were me, I would still be curious if he went to a party. It wouldn't be as threatening as a date but I would know he is meeting new people maybe flirting with women and having fun.
Thanks P! I know I always assume the worst when it comes to worrying about D.
Why can't I just tell him I went to a wine tasting party with new friends?
Because then he knows you went to a wine tasting party with friends.
Isn't that still intriguing?
No. What's intriguing is that he doesn't know where you went. There is no intrigue when you know the answer!
Yeah, but it was WINE TASTING. Not a full Roman orgy. What is going to make him more jealous - you going to a wine tasting event or a Roman orgy? Okay, I get that these are a little extreme but you know what I mean.
If it were me, I would still be curious if he went to a party.
Of course you would. But you'd then say 'it was only a wine tasting party, what happens at those'. You'd be curious about what wine he tasted and if he had a nice time. If you didn't know where he'd went you'd be curious about where he went, who he went with, were there women there, did he like any of them, why didn't he take me ....
It wouldn't be as threatening as a date but I would know he is meeting new people maybe flirting with women and having fun.
I have to be honest. I've never been to a wine tasting but can you really feel threatened by your spouse going to one?
Put these in order of threatening - wine tasting - out with the boys - off to a strip club - off to a roman orgy - off to Salsa ...
It's actually irrelevant as the answer is his imagination. His imagination will do a much better job worrying him than you ever will.
See your previous post - your imagination has you worried about the D and all he did was send you a text!
p17, I am cracking up again!!! You are doing a good deed by making us laugh with your combination of candor and humor.
You are right right right! Now I hope he didn't guess that I just went to a wine tasting party (LOL)!
Cutter, the wine shop was in the same section as a bunch of funky cafes that have live music, natural food/ organic stores, that kind of thing. 80% of their wines were under $20 and they gave generous pours for the tasting fee!
The topics of conversation ranged from psychoanalysis& veganism, to marathon training and exotic dancing (guess who brought that topic up!)
And the wine shop owner had us taste vermouth which is made from 60 different grapes and 80 different herbs...tasted kind of "oaky!" just kidding but it was spicy.
p17, I am cracking up again!!! You are doing a good deed by making us laugh with your combination of candor and humor.
I'm glad I cheered you up newmama. That's the NC work I had done ... back to my sarcastic humourous self ... before the S I was a different man!
You are right right right! Now I hope he didn't guess that I just went to a wine tasting party (LOL)!
This is the thing though, he couldn't guess. You walked in with a bag and bottles of wine. You could have been ANYWHERE. And even if his mind was 'certain' you'd been to a wine tasting, his imagination would still be playing the alternatives.
Never under estimate the power of the imagination in DBing ...
[/quote]
Update:
Well, tonight was fine! Phew! I made sure to wear one of my new "tighter" fitting shirts, flattering jeans, wore my contacts again, did hair and make-up right before he came over. I greeted him warmly with our son and made sure to LOOK HIM IN THE EYE. He returned eye contact.
Something I am working on is asking him more questions about himself BUT it's hard because I tend to ask about activities/events which means I might be finding info about what he does with OW. So I am trying to ask about things about his past, likes/dislikes, you know, about HIM, but without sounding like I am interviewing him or being obvious about what I'm doing.
So I made those attempts and I noticed that he was bringing up more conversation on his own! I can't help but feel bad that I stopped doing this when we were still together.(I have been the talker, he has been the listener)
Anyway, then I worked out, freshened my make up, dressed into pajamas (i.e. yoga pants and tighter v neck red shirt, but I need to find sexier shirts that are warmer than the tank tops I wear in spring/summer) made dinner (used the grill which is a big deal! The gas scares me!)and he put our baby to sleep.
So we ate dinner, watched 2.5 men that had tons of infidelity references...then he cleaned up the kitchen, lingered, and just stood there by the tree, kind of drawing out things to talk about before saying goodbye.
He won't be coming over again until Saturday and that is the night that my SIL watches S and I have my Ugly Holiday Sweater Party.
(FYI I went to my mommy group this morning and brought homemade chicken tortilla soup! It was a hit! Also, they said I looked really good without my glasses and liked my new closthes. I am totally appreciative of any and all compliments right now because I am so insecure, admittedly, for the time being. SO ANNOYING!)
Update:
Well, tonight was fine! Phew! I made sure to wear one of my new "tighter" fitting shirts, flattering jeans, wore my contacts again, did hair and make-up right before he came over. I greeted him warmly with our son and made sure to LOOK HIM IN THE EYE. He returned eye contact.
Newmama, I am actually getting a bit fed up with how hot you keep describing yourself. I actually keep threatening to come over there on a plane, but it'd actually just for you. If I EVER make it over there, me and yo and going to destroy WH ...
Did he respond to any of it?
Something I am working on is asking him more questions about himself BUT it's hard because I tend to ask about activities/events which means I might be finding info about what he does with OW. So I am trying to ask about things about his past, likes/dislikes, you know, about HIM, but without sounding like I am interviewing him or being obvious about what I'm doing.
So I made those attempts and I noticed that he was bringing up more conversation on his own! I can't help but feel bad that I stopped doing this when we were still together.(I have been the talker, he has been the listener)[/quote[
Did all that with W .. she loved to talk about herself and didn't ever talk about me and W ... I put it down to being in the A and being bloody selfish.
[quote]
So we ate dinner,
Why are you STILL feeding him dinner?
watched 2.5 men that had tons of infidelity references...then he cleaned up the kitchen, lingered, and just stood there by the tree, kind of drawing out things to talk about before saying goodbye.
He is still cake eating but I know you know that.
Yes, he is cake eating but I am doing a Plan A of sorts. So it is part of the whole thing. (Plan A is where you improve yourself, avoid love busting comments, try to meet your spouse's top emotional needs and then it is supposed to be followed by Plan B after a certain amount of time. Closing the bakery! Just haven't made it to plan B yet. There is a small chance that the WS ends the A during Plan A before ever having to go to Plan B. Very small chance. this is from Dr. Harley of marriagebuilders.com but is better described in his book, Surving an Affair.)
Newmama, I am actually getting a bit fed up with how hot you keep describing yourself.
Hahaha! I do not want to come across like that! I am just trying to explain that I am wearing more flattering clothing than before! And I didn't want "pajamas" to come across as flannel with pink stars and yellow moons or something (although flannel is sooooo comfortable damn it! But husbands seem to hate the flannel PJs on their wives!)
Like I said,I am losing baby weight and a poster did say WH sees me as a "mom" so unless it is a MILF, I need to amp up the sex appeal! So i am working with what I got and noticing compliments from people.
And yes, I am still feeding him.
He was the main cook for the last 5 years of our relationship. I was the sous chef I guess or the prep cook. So I am improving myself by cooking and he is noticing finally!
I realize you are teasing me! BUt I felt like responding anyway!
Newmama. I love the flannels.
Best thing about them.
When things get hot and heavy.
Theres lots of sweet sweat. So I can smell that my lover is getting into it. And when they come off on a cold night. I can feel the goose bumps on the arms and legs. Now that is sexy.
You woman. You need to learn that sexy is not what you have been brainwashed with all your life.
We are men. Not boys.
You are a woman and not a girl.
[quote]You need to know that as long as he is in the affair, he is gone.
He is living in a very different land. His actions are very selfish and he does not care what these actions do to you. Nothing right now will make him turn to you. But your actions will chip away.[/quote]
Cutter said this to avermont back in early November and I think P, you should think about how it relates to your W and I am putting it on my thread because I am finally feeling like my actions are chipping away at him (finally meaning this last month or so instead of the other 7 months he has been in the A).
Cutter, I will be sure to explain the flannels to WH if I get to reconcile with him! He likes to see the woman's shape and he is not into skinny minnies.
Sexy to WH: junk in the trunk, don't wear baggy clothes- show your curves, be confident, wear your hair long, glasses or contacts. Satin material is preferable for nighties.
Oh and he loves compliments and admiration. Enjoys being needed.
Loves affections and cuddling.
Need to stop!
You woman. You need to learn that sexy is not what you have been brainwashed with all your life.
We are men. Not boys.
You are a woman and not a girl.
Amen!
[quote]You need to know that as long as he is in the affair, he is gone.
He is living in a very different land. His actions are very selfish and he does not care what these actions do to you. Nothing right now will make him turn to you. But your actions will chip away.[/quote]
Cutter said this to avermont back in early November and I think P, you should think about how it relates to your W and I am putting it on my thread because I am finally feeling like my actions are chipping away at him (finally meaning this last month or so instead of the other 7 months he has been in the A).
Newmama thanks for that.
However, negative thoughts - I see the A becoming long term if I know W. I am not doing any actions to chip away (as you know I'm in NC) although as you said on my thread it will get back to her if I did. But as W looks to have moved on, I don't think she'd care anyway. I know it's negative but there is nothing to tell me any different.
I have no patience, that is my problem!
You on the other hand have been doing fantastically. And he is noticing and liking your changes.
You mentioned in an earlier thread that you were worried he would bring D talk up when he came over ... did he?
Newmama, things seem very positive for you. Unfortunately, I'm seeing things the same for my sitch as P. NC does not help with chipping away at them.
Yep, no patience is my prob too.
But there's nothing to give me hope or patience as time goes on to keep going.
Things are looking good for you newmama!
Hey P, your thread locked!
Newmama, things seem very positive for you. Unfortunately, I'm seeing things the same for my sitch as P. NC does not help with chipping away at them.
We know that NC is for us, not them. But it does make it difficult to DB somebody when you don't see them. DBD at least you have kids to tie you to H which means you will still have contact. I have nothing!
Yep, no patience is my prob too.
But there's nothing to give me hope or patience as time goes on to keep going.
We need to start a 'negativity rules' support group
Things are looking good for you newmama!
Hey P, your thread locked!
I know. Maybe the mods saw my pity party last night and killed the thread
Sometimes you have the hammer and chisel in your hands. Sweat running down your face. You stare hard at the mountain in front of you. You are not going to chip away at this mountain at this level. So you start towards the base of the mountain. There is wind and rain. Pounding in your face. Many boulders are laying about. You hardly notice them. But you have to climb over them. Interesting. Seems something is helping you. You have stopped hammering away but you have found a friend. An old and trusted friend. One you have forgotten about. Time.
Seems something is helping you. You have stopped hammering away but you have found a friend. An old and trusted friend. One you have forgotten about. Time.
which segues into this:
the time has arrived where I discovered that I am a great catch, damnit, and WH knows it which helps me to be more bold about being mysterious and going out.
I was worried that he would take my confidence to mean he could safely walk away (i.e. D) but then 2 things happened:
1)I got my confidence back this week
2)I read Avermont's thread and she had the same fear and I was thinking "there's no way her BF will walk away from her permanently!" and I found myself typing words of encouragement to be bold by "ignoring him" or "keep dating" etc.
So no one could have told me this last month or last week...the time arrived today. I had to discover it. Oh, going out and having a good time DEFINITELY helped to give me a boost, especially since I was meeting strangers! I had to be brave and they liked me for me!
I didn't say I was detached, just more willing to go out for me (not him) yet act mysterious and not worry about if he will leave me.
(remind me of this as I need it!!!)
Newmama. Don't get drunk. Enjoy friendship. And at midnight. Smile and think. I survived the worst year of my life. And look at how I am improving. And say happy new year to yourself. Then us.
I copied from P17's thread. Cutterbug, thank you for this perspective. 2009: the hardest year of my life and the best year b/c I have S!
2010: It WILL be better!
Cutter, I know you are out having fun (yay!) and I am relaxing after a fun day w/ my baby boy and grandma. But, I want to comment about your old highschool friend and how you are helping her stay friends with a man (you) and not cross that boundary.
I ended up spending tonight talking to a highschool friend who suffered an affair. And she spent the last few years doing them on other people.She has no male friends so I said I would be her first.
I gave her, her first boundary.
Sigh. Good luck with that. I mean this very kindly and sincerely.
Do not be surprised when she starts to cross the boundary (after all, you are funny, smart, have health insurance and look like George Clooney!!
)Seriously, she will, for the reasons I stated but also because she has lots of experience doing that in her past.
Will you be able to resist her when she does?
BTW Are you allowing yourself to get physical with other women while in NC with WW or do you consider it cheating?
(I cam see either argument here)
I just think of my WH who wanted to be the one (knight in shining armor) to help OW to be more responsible and break off unhealthy relationships. I tried to explain that she was too fargone for someone to help her other than a trained specialist who can prescribe medication. But he didn't believe me and even *^%&ed her to attempt to help! sarcastic LOL
Yes I will be able to keep the boundary. It is her choice if she wants to help herself. Its not a forum. She either owns her sh*t or she does not. Either way, thats her problem. I gave her some hints that life can be better. And I leave it at that.
As for the physical. No. I have not. I got EA on one girl. But I made sure I did not contact her for a month while I worked it out. And when I saw her again. I had the feelings. So I waited again for awhile. And the last 2 times I saw her. I was in control of my feelings. Its not there. But I did use this to heal. And no one got hurt.
Dating to me means. Good conversation, good company ,good food. Nothing more.
I still have a ton to deal with from the adultery. It would be unfair to myself to deny myself the chance to deal with it. I have not kissed another person in 15 years.
So I heal. And I enjoy my life. GAL includes these things. As does the parallel path I follow.
I really do not want to complicate my life any more.
I had a good evening tonight. Out with 2 friends. And way too many pints. I am writing this on 8 pints.... And its cold here.... So off I go to bed.
Next year some time I will start to date for that next level. Not now I am not ready. And to me dating means. Living my life. Stuff happens. Lets see where it goes. If it does not happen. That is ok as well. I am not worried.
2010 is my year.
Cutter, hope you don't mind me expressing concern. You sound like you have a steady grip on your boundaries! I just think she will push it but I guess you keep your boundaries so nothing will happen that shouldn't!
But I want to know what this means:
It is her choice if she wants to help herself. Its not a forum. She either owns her sh*t or she does not.
I'm glad you had fun last night!
journaling:
as WH is off with my baby boy, I am doing okay but I wonder how I could handle the shared custody situation with my son when I won't see him every day. It is my last fear.
I am not afraid of living without WH even though I want him.
I am no longer afraid of OW seeing my son.
I am afraid of having to do the divorced parent shared access to your kid deal.
Cutter, hope you don't mind me expressing concern. You sound like you have a steady grip on your boundaries! I just think she will push it but I guess you keep your boundaries so nothing will happen that shouldn't!
But I want to know what this means:
It is her choice if she wants to help herself. Its not a forum. She either owns her sh*t or she does not.
I'm glad you had fun last night!
Thank you for expressing concern. It is good that people care about me.
The Its not a forum. Means a few things.
1. Its the real world and the conversations are in real time and face to face. This is very different than a forum. Here in the forum I can joke with you about what we wear to bed as we both know the context of the conversation. We also know that we are not hitting on each other and also other will join in the conversation. In the real world this conversation would be very different due to the context of the interaction between the 2 people talking. As I have boundaries in place I would choose not to get into those conversations.
2. I have my own problems to deal with. So I offer some examples of how to help one's self based on what is helping me. The next conversation will have a sub topic of "Have you thoughtabout and reviewed the sites that I thought would help you?" If she has she will be able to talk about what she has read and ask questions. If she has not. I am going to ask why not. And her answer is either going to be full of a few excuses and self pity or both. And I will then end the conversation. And leave her to her self pity. If she asks in a few weeks why I have not talked to her. I will repeat the question above. And if I get the same responce. I will tell her that I am not a sounding board for people who do not wish to be true to themselves. Nor do I wish to surround myself with people who self destruct and run away from their problems. As I do not own her sh*t, she needs to own it.
And from what I have heard so far from her. She has not.
So I am saying that in the real world I am not a forum for people to post their life stories on and expect me to give, give ,give.
This is a 180 for me newmama. Stop being a giver. Saying NO.
My choice was to not self distruct.
And thank you very much for this conversation.
In the real world when all the stuff went down , I contacted two close friends and told them to watch out that I don't get in any relationships , one night stands , or rebounds. I understand that I am highly emotional right now . I understand grief.
The best thing about that. Is that they have kept their word and kept an eye on me. Engage me in conversation about my date's and toss truth darts at me. It is great having good friends.
I am afraid of having to do the divorced parent shared access to your kid deal.
This is a big fear of mine too. After looking through all the paperwork of the parenting plan, I hate it. I don't like a schedule on the kids' time and the times that I won't be with them. They will want to be with their friends and be subject to whether he wants to let them go or not. But I know it has to be fair to H as well to spend time with them. They need to spend time with him too.
Don't know where I was going with this. Just wanted to commiserate. It's tough.
I know, DBD. It just is terrible. I think you are holding up well. All I can think is that you are doing a 180 because WH will be surprised that you filed. He doesn't know, right?
Cutter, your explanation about the forum makes complete sense! Yes, we are a bit more free here. I do not see any flirtatious comments as serious, whether they are from me or someone else! I am grateful that P, you, DBD, bestrong, ravenly started replying to me! It is nice to know others are supportive or willing to give me a push in a scary direction. And I am happy to offer the same to you all. HUGS!
Well, when WH got back with our S, I made sure to wear one of my new flattering shirts with my flattering jeans. Contacts were in, hair and make up were done. I caught him check me out this time.
I reminded him that his sister was babysitting S tonight (it came up).
Before he left he just said "see you guys tomorrow--be good to your auntie." He did not tell me to have fun. He didn't tell me on Wednesday either!
Now tonight I go to an ugly holiday sweater party, but I never found a good sweater. So instead, I found a plain one in my closet and used some red glitter glue to draw a Christmas tree on it. I hope I don't regret making my own!
I admit that I am nervous.I have toyed with the idea of goingto see a movie instead. This is a single parents group, so there might be some people on the prowl. I will just have a fun time like on Wednesday, and if I hate it, I can leave.
Newmama,
Wow! What a great attitude you have! I am thrilled to see you are finally no longer fearing the things that have been holding you back! I must say I am soooo addicted to your blogging! I love how you update often - I check daily and get so excited for new updates! Love hearing about your cooking too-it has inspired me here at home to devise an entire menu (Complete with menu type wording explaining the dish to make it sound more scrumptious) and incorporate a bunch of new dishes (That is one of H's complaints--I cook the same foods over and over). I let H pick out 4 dishes from the menu, and I pick 3. Anyhoo, he LOVED it! And I am forced to try new dishes that way, too.
Also, I am soooooo glad to hear that he noticed/checked you out! The girl in me wants more details
Great progress!
Also, one thing sorta stuck out at me -- Why does he stay to watch tv and eat AFTER the baby has gone to bed? I mean it is one thing to visit with baby, another to hang around after baby has gone to bed to hang w/ you and watch tv/eat. I wonder what OW thinks about that or if she knows?
I hope you have a lot of fun tonite and can't wait to hear how it went!!!!
Nope, doesn't know. But honestly... I feel I can share this here, I'm wanting to tell him and go to mediation so that we can talk. I know, I know. Just being honest and trying to keep myself in check. ARGH.
DBD, I don't understand why you are "embarrassed" to want to talk to WH about it at mediation? I do not think you should tell him that you are filing. But I don't know what happens regarding next steps after he is served....if LBS wants to stop the divorce/ get WAS back, what do they do then? Stall? What else? I have heard divorce takes a long time to complete.
Ravenly, I'm glad you were inspired to try different dishes! I am still trying new dishes every week and getting ideas from food network. Asian cooking has tons of ingredients so it looks intimidating but actually, not too hard(the recipes I've tried at least).
Yes, it is interesting that WH stayed to watch TV and lingered. I know people will just say "cake eating" but my gut says he misses his old life...maybe even me?
As for today, I emerged from my (our) bedroom all ready and fresh and went to pick up S in his room while WH was drawing a bath for S.
While I was hugging and kissing S, WH came into the room, looked me up and down (I was facing the door and watched him do it) and then came to join in on the hugs and kisses while taking him from me. I confess that after I saw him check me out, I turned around and found a way to stick my hiny out before turning back around to WH!
Hope I elaborated enough? ;-).
So I am back from the ugly holiday sweater party! And I will need to write about it tomorrow since I am tired, but I will tell you that of the 4 people who shared their stories of separation or divorce (there were more people but I didn't get to talk to them)
2 of them had to do w/ infidelity. Throw me in and 3/5 is 66%.
I will tell more tomorrow!
Hi newmama.....
Think more about actions in the moment...and not so much speculating about what could happen. P17 is giving you some good advice about making him wonder, let him not be so sure. I would follow that.
I would NOT toss out an ultimatum. That only works with follow through and completely depends on timing for the result...ie...you might get a result you don't want.
I would not worry about cake-eating. If you focus on that, you will be nervous and angry all the time.
Pull back....be less available. Make your home a little less available to him. That is a very loving thing to do....to let him miss you more.
Ok...so I arrived a little late, walked in, and to my surprise it was a small pub. I saw a couple of long tables with people sitting, but saw plenty of people wearing "holiday sweaters" sitting in booths. Luckily someone called me over to the right table! I was about to embarrass myself and walk up to some people sitting at a booth to ask them if they were part of the ugly holiday sweater party!! Close call.
To my surprise, there were only about 8-9 people at our table. 4 others joined us later. Also, only 3 people were wearing "ugly" sweaters! No fair! So we joked about that.
Most people were in their late 30s-40s. There were 5 dads. I started talking to a dad who was an electric engineer but laid off so he got to pick up his daughter from school every day, even if it wasn't "his" day. He lit up talking about her and shared lots of stories about how they spent their time. He had 50% custody. Another dad did as well and also was so passionate talking about his son.
It really solidified for me that 50% was/is the right thing to do for our S. I pray it doesn't come to that, but if it does, I know WH would be just as dedicated as these dads and S would really get quality time with each of us.
Anyway, they started sharing stories of divorce. Like I said earlier, I only heard 4 stories. The electrical engineer was 42 and had a 6 year old daughter. He said it was about money. He initiated the divorce after his W wouldn't stop using credit cards. There must be more, but then he kept talking about money, the housing market, economy. He knew his stuff but I got the impression he was OBSESSED with money. I asked him if he grew up poor.Nope. Money is security.
Sigh. I think I read somewhere that next to infidelity, money issues are the 2nd highest reason for divorce. I just kep thinking "you threw away your marriage over something that could have been sorted out?"
Another young woman was 27 and had a 2 year old son. She started thinking about divorce when he was my son's age; 5 months old. She said her H was a workaholic cook and would rather work or sleep in than spend time with his family. She said he grew up in a dysfunctional home where there wasn't a strong sense of family so she thinks he just didn't know how to be a dad or husbnd. Even now, he sees his son 2 evening per week but cancels a lot for work. As I was listening, I just kept wondering if they had to divorce; what if she had tried some DB techniques first? On the other hand, he sounds very "broken" so she might never have been able to get him to come around. In her case, with an absent father, I guess it would be best for her S if she found a better man who could be an awesome stepdad.
The other dad I talked to was in his mid 40s. He was an architect for green building, but had been a stay at home dad while unemployed for several years. His W was the breadwinner. They lived in a tiny town in the country until moving up tothe city a few years ago. He said that he made the move for his W, arrived here and started to get some work. Then she divorces him.
There was a woman in her late 30s who had been married 15 years. She and her H had infertility issues but finally through medical intervention had their daughter. Last year he found an ex girlfriend on Facebook (so common). They had an affair; the woman finally confirmed her suspicions with cell phone records. They separated but had an "in house S" which was torture. His A ended but now he wants to date others. (it reminded me of my SIL's exH) They are seeking a "collaborative divorce" because she can't forgive him or let the A go. It wasn't clear to me if he wanted to R or not. They are only S, not legally, for now. Her H is involved and dedicated with their daughter.
We also talked about fun stuff too. But I couldn't help but think that I AM NOT DIVORCED YET. I still have hope. My WH and I do not have money issues or workaholic issues. We still love each other. If OW can be out of the picture, I have no doubt that as long as WH stays dedicated, we could rebuild our M. !!!!
When I got back, my SIL told me that WH had sent her a text to check on S. I guess S had a hard time calming down and was screaming bloody murder. SIL told him that he finally settled but was "gasping" in his sleep, like after you have had a hard cry and can't catch your breath. He said to let him know if she needs anything. Uhmm...yeah...like he would drive 45 minutes to help her and by the time he got there, S would be fine?
Besides, supposedly he had other plans last night and that was why he couldn't babysit!
But, I was touched that he checked in. I hope he felt guilty that S was having a hard time!!!
In all, I'm glad I went, no one was "prowling," and now I know some people for the next meet up!
5 days til Christmas. I can't wait until it's over so I can get through it!
WH comes over today. I have a lot to get done so I won't be hanging out with him much! ;-)
Think more about actions in the moment...and not so much speculating about what could happen. P17 is giving you some good advice about making him wonder, let him not be so sure. I would follow that.
Yes,I have just got the courage to start this last week! P, I am listening to you so don't give up on me! :-)
I would NOT toss out an ultimatum. That only works with follow through and completely depends on timing for the result...ie...you might get a result you don't want.
totally agree! been there, done that, didn't work.
I would not worry about cake-eating. If you focus on that, you will be nervous and angry all the time.
thank you! I am not so concerned about cake eating as everyone else looking in seems to be!
Pull back....be less available. Make your home a little less available to him. That is a very loving thing to do....to let him miss you more
I don't get how to make my home less available. But I can be less available. I still want to cook, though!
thank you, sgctxok! I appreciate your advice and am able to start being less available again! Today I am truly going to be busy so it will be easy!
any suggestions for what I could do after dinner in the evenings so that I am not acting like a bit@h but can be "less available?"
I just checked out the 180 list and saw a few I need to work on now...
like not initiating conversation, don't talk about myself, and look him in the eyes when he is talking/don't interrupt.
I am a talker though and love to talk about our son with him!
this will be tough but I will do it today (there is no try, only do!)
Would you consider eating dinner without him and not letting him eat the food? Instead, mention what you had so he knows you are still cooking the new exotic dishes. I would do this for a full 180 when you are ready for plan B. My only other suggestions for the 180 are let him get the tiniest glimpse of you looking all hot and sexy, but then leave and go dark, making him wonder where you are and miss you (and the cooking!). I bet that house is cold and lonely, even with baby, without you in it. If you must be home, then arrange for a girlfriend to call you and hole yourself up in your bedroom and chat quietly - again, he should wonder who you are talking to.
It seems obvious he misses his old life with you, but I think that is called "cake eating" regardless - he still gets the OW while he has you at home available to feed him and give him a piece of that life. He hasn't had to give it up yet.
Would you consider eating dinner without him and not letting him eat the food? Instead, mention what you had so he knows you are still cooking the new exotic dishes. I would do this for a full 180 when you are ready for plan B. My only other suggestions for the 180 are let him get the tiniest glimpse of you looking all hot and sexy, but then leave and go dark, making him wonder where you are and miss you (and the cooking!). I bet that house is cold and lonely, even with baby, without you in it. If you must be home, then arrange for a girlfriend to call you and hole yourself up in your bedroom and chat quietly - again, he should wonder who you are talking to.
Exactly....except walk out the door with the food in hand. Let him smell it AND YOU.
Don't worry about cake eating. Once in a blue moon, let him eat cake. Just don't let him take the cake for granted.
Worrying about cake eating leads to conversations about boundaries. Talks about boundaries will not work.
Now....do not pre-plan and ASK him if he can babysit. Just tell him you'll be back in a couple of hours. And then do that. Whereveryo yuou go .....LAUGH. LAUGH YOUR ARSE OFF.
Sorry....my computer gets funky, and I can't scroll down to see what I'm typing so I can't correct typos.
any suggestions for what I could do after dinner in the evenings so that I am not acting like a bit@h but can be "less available?"
Any local colleges around ??? Perhaps take a class. Learn a new language? Wood Working ? Something completely different.
Worrying about cake eating leads to conversations about boundaries. Talks about boundaries will not work.
Now....do not pre-plan and ASK him if he can babysit. Just tell him you'll be back in a couple of hours. And then do that. Whereveryo yuou go .....LAUGH. LAUGH YOUR ARSE OFF.
So, don't discuss boundaries--just set them? Is this what you mean?
Thank you all! I think that I can definitely do:
1) hole myself up talking on the phone
2)tell him the night OF that I am going to be gone for a bit*
*but I can't do that every night because I really do need to work out on my elliptical since I can't do it during the day with LO!
3) take a class...am looking into belly dancing. I love to learn academic things but definitely get tons of professional development when I am working as a teacher. Besides, college courses cost a LOT more than recreational classes.
I am not sure about how to cook and then walk away--do you mean prepare the dinner but don't eat with him? I honestly can't see myself only cooking for me and not leaving anything for him.
Today's update: WH was here 12:15-5 and I was gone 12:30-3:30. I returned to unload groceries and then put away laundry. But I did talk to him about S (LO= little one) and he taked to me about my rheumatoid arthritis and something related to family. He said his mom would be in town next Sunday and he wanted to take S to see her. He said I could go too if I wanted. I mumbled sure, but I am thinking NO. I won't tell him until that day. I have seen his mom and grandma and sister recently so I don't need to see them again. Besides, they support me and will totaly get why I don't go!
Yes, I made sure to look good again, too!
Well cooking is a good Plan A.
Make the rule.
Who ever cooks makes for the both of you. So if he is making something he cooks extra and puts it in a tupperware container for you. You do the same for him.
Its a very good Plan A activity.
Part of
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Its easy to do. It also lets him see what he will be missing when your done with the cake eating.
Who ever cooks makes for the both of you. So if he is making something he cooks extra and puts it in a tupperware container for you. You do the same for him.
Yes, BUT I have been cooking now 99% time. So how do I transition to sharing that responsibility with him? Please help explain. And do you mean literally scooping it into tupperware? I can envision cooking it but leaving it on the stove for him to help himself although that is how I have been doing it. So...?
I think it's time that I explain how I took him for granted. Now I do know that ultimately, HE is the one who is responsible fo his A, due to self esteem issues. But let me reveal my wrongdoings:
1) I worked 60hours per week (from 2004-2008; 2008 I slowed down and he started A)
2)I talked to fellow teacher girlfriends on the phone, venting, 3-4 nights per week
3)I neglected housework; we were 50% but b/c I worked so hard and was burned out, I just wanted to "veg" on the weekends and he silently picked up the slack
4) he cooked 90% time
5) he managed 100% finances/bills
6) he worked on house
7) he comforted/supported me
8) he listened to me
9) he spent time with me; we were joined at the hip
My contributions? Admiration-I expressed how grateful I was and let him know he did a great job at whatever he did. Companionship.Affection. Sex.(lots at first, then little, then working back up to "medium") Unconditional love. I planned our activities.
So yes, I contributed emotionally. But I neglected him when I worked extra and talked on the phone (minimum 45 minutes), and he took care of all the other stuff that goes into living with someone. He told me that he just did those things so they would get completed and he doesn't care who does it. But I found it hard to believe. I told him he would get resentful. I didn't know how to get closer to him; how to talk about feelings and fears and to ask him about his. We are both conflict avoiders.
Who ever cooks makes for the both of you. So if he is making something he cooks extra and puts it in a tupperware container for you. You do the same for him.
Yes, BUT I have been cooking now 99% time. So how do I transition to sharing that responsibility with him? Please help explain. And do you mean literally scooping it into tupperware? I can envision cooking it but leaving it on the stove for him to help himself although that is how I have been doing it. So...?
I think it's time that I explain how I took him for granted. Now I do know that ultimately, HE is the one who is responsible fo his A, due to self esteem issues. But let me reveal my wrongdoings:
1) I worked 60hours per week (from 2004-2008; 2008 I slowed down and he started A)
2)I talked to fellow teacher girlfriends on the phone, venting, 3-4 nights per week
3)I neglected housework; we were 50% but b/c I worked so hard and was burned out, I just wanted to "veg" on the weekends and he silently picked up the slack
4) he cooked 90% time
5) he managed 100% finances/bills
6) he worked on house
7) he comforted/supported me
8) he listened to me
9) he spent time with me; we were joined at the hip
My contributions? Admiration-I expressed how grateful I was and let him know he did a great job at whatever he did. Companionship.Affection. Sex.(lots at first, then little, then working back up to "medium") Unconditional love. I planned our activities.
So yes, I contributed emotionally. But I neglected him when I worked extra and talked on the phone (minimum 45 minutes), and he took care of all the other stuff that goes into living with someone. He told me that he just did those things so they would get completed and he doesn't care who does it. But I found it hard to believe. I told him he would get resentful. I didn't know how to get closer to him; how to talk about feelings and fears and to ask him about his. We are both conflict avoiders.
Wow those 9 items.. Newmama. Its like looking in a mirror. Except housework I was 100% and the A.
Its very hard to be a giver all the time. It actually makes you depressed. The balance keeps shifting and shifting. So difficult to come out of. And after awhile you give up inside. Go through the motions. Every once in awhile you pop up and try to change everything. Nothing changes so you go back to giving and giving. As its the only thing you know and understand. You want to say something. But at the same time your just afraid, because you know the taker will just take the words and you are still left with nothing. You become very lonely with the woman you love. This carries on for a few years. Then one of you frack up and step out. Either the entitled one. Or the giver wants to be a taker for awhile. Take from the other and punish you by making you be the giver. I understand this very well. You were his bell and he loved you very much. So he planned doing things around making spare time to be with you. And it was not veg he wanted. But to do things together. I shelled. And he commited adultery. Both cries for change and help.
Comming from there.
I really think your 180's and Plan A activities need to be based around giving.
Not direct giving. But indirect giving. Cleaning, cooking, doing stuff around the house. Not vegging. Activities.
The cooking thing is easy.
Go buy those new glass tupperware continers with the snap lids.
Get rid of all the old plastic ones.
Bring them home and the next 2 meals you cook. Cook enough for dinner and lunch.
When he gets home. Tell him dinner and lunch are in the fridge. Highlight the new containers you got. And talk about the snap lids and how stuff can stay fresh for a week.
Then do this again the next night.
Monitor results.
Then a few days later mention a meal of his you like and ask him if he makes it to make some extra for dinner for you and lunch.
Just leave it at that.
Comming from there.
I really think your 180's and Plan A activities need to be based around giving.
Not direct giving. But indirect giving. Cleaning, cooking, doing stuff around the house. Not vegging. Activities.
So are you saying you were like WH? Giver?
I think I'm on track...been doing cleaning and stocking up on foods he likes,and I was buying him other little gifts but that was not received well (i.e. "thanks!" and left it here)
About lunch...he is living with OW so I don't think he will take the lunch home.
About activities...we were actually doing lots of fun stuff the summer before he started the A. I thought we had turned a corner! But should I be doing activities with him now? I would be happy to but I thought I was going to start to pull away so he can miss me and pursue me.
should I go with WH and S to his sister's house next Sunday or not?
Bah I was thinking for some reason he had moved back. I forgot the arrangement you had set up. Sorry. No carry on with your current path. But keep up with the cooking and cleaning
I need to clarify that I didn't just sit on my butt while he did everything...I did get better at beating him to the dishes laundry and I always cleaned the toilets although I think men should since they are more messy! ;-) But I slacked on mopping and vacuuming and definitely cooking/bills.
I guess I just want to say I KNOW I had my faults and definitely needed to improve. But he wasn't perfect and I didn't cheat! I have tight boundaries in the real world. Guess he didn't.
Here is my personal opinion - no matter how messy/slobby/lazy you were as a wife/mate/partner, that is no reason to cheat. It just isn't. Cheating is by far one of the most painful things you can do to someone. Those two things just don't compare.
Now, put the shoe on the other foot...Had HE been working 60+ hours per week, would you have stepped in to do more? How much free time did he have versus you? I know when my H worked a bunch of overtime last winter, and I had a week off, I took over everything. I didn't become resentful or fall out of love or fall into love with someone else because of it. H does a little bit more than me because he is crazy OCD about things being spotless and clean 100% of the time. He has assured me a zillion times he is not resentful because of it. We've talked a lot about this issue because I do more stuff with the kids and feel it winds up evening out.
I guess what my point is that I don't think you should beat yourself up or take the blame for his actions. I definately think becoming cleaner and a better cook are things that you can do to improve yourself and let him see those changes as positives, but not as an excuse for his behavior.
As far as the going with him, I really don't know. It seems like a huge step in the right direction in terms of him inviting you. I do wonder what OW would think if she knew you two were going to be hanging out at his family's??? I would think that would be extremely upsetting to her if she knew...I am so evil though I would probably go and then make sure it got back to her so she would fight with him on it...LOL But I am a meanie like that! You seem really nice!
Newmama, I think you are shouldering a lot of unfair blame for the A. I totally agree with ravenly... WAH made the choice to have the A--he crossed that line. You do seem like such a wonderful person. I see how hard you are trying. That's a lot of love!!
I guess what my point is that I don't think you should beat yourself up or take the blame for his actions. I definately think becoming cleaner and a better cook are things that you can do to improve yourself and let him see those changes as positives, but not as an excuse for his behavior
.
Thank you Ravenly and Dbd as well! I don't always blame myself, but at the same time want to be honest about the balance being off in our relationship. A big part of Plan A really is about meeting our WS's emotional needs, right? What's funny is that domestic house hold duties wasn't in the top 5 when he filled out the emotional needs questionnaire. Instead he had (not in this order)affection, attractive spouse, sexual fulfillment, openness and honesty (HA!) and admiration.
I think that acts of service are his love language so that is why I am working on the domestic stuff. IN addition to just having fun with a new hobby (cooking) and feeling good about having a pretty clean house all the time.
I am improving my looks and giving him compliments which I was pretty good at doing in the past as well but probably overlooked some things he did all the time.
Or I wasn't thanking him in his love language.
I can't really give him affection or sex right now (my boundary) and I am trying to be mysterious, so being open and honest is out the window.
My needs were (not in this order)affection, openness and honesty, admiration, attractive spouse and conversation. SF was #6 but to me, affection can count as SF too so I had a tough time deciding. WH had recreational activities as #6 and conversation was 7 or 8. So we had 4/5 top emotional needs in common.
Now I am joining the others on the forum who are cycling down. I am just discouraged. I mean I still feel like I am a catch and that WH should be afraid to lose me. That is still there. But I am crying right now.
When he came over he was in the best, upbeat *&^% mood. He arrived that way. It made me be in a bad mood but I forced myself to stay neutral and work on sounding cheery.
Well I just wish he went out of town or something for a week. I could use a break from all of this, It's very hard. Like P said, I think he is normalizing.
Today he told me that he was working a half day tomorrow so he could either come early and leave early or just do the regular time (5:30-8:00ish), "no biggee" I already invited my aunt to come visit so I told him that the regular time would be fine.
I tried to change the order of making dinner first, then working out and showering in order to suck up the time. However, he came over earlier than usual. So I had an extra 40 minutes to kill. I made the dinner, chatted kind of, and then when it came to using the elliptical it hurt my stomach because I was full from dinner!
So I had to stop after only 28 minutes. Well, on top of that, our S was super tired because I took him to visit a friend of mine who lives out of town so he didn't get his naps. He ended up going to bed early.
I called 3 different people and got voicemail so I wasn't able to talk on the phone. Arghhh! So I came downstairs and ended up surfing the net while we watched TV for 45 minutes. He always leaves at 8 or 8:15 for some reason; tonight S was totally out by 7:30ish and he hung around until 8. I dont know if it is because of his anal retentive nature or what?
He was thoughtful and closed up the patio door, cleaned up after dinner and put the food in tupperware. Later when I asked him if he would eat it, he said it was good, but no (we had chili nachos) and I told him I wouldn't eat it either. So then he went to the fridge and took it out and threw it away so that I wouldn't have to procrastinate on tossing it.
I think I may have mentioned this before but I starting to worry that he is being friendly because he thinks "See? I knew we could coparent and stay friends!" I know that is mind reading. My fantasy is that he is being nice in order to keep me interested until Dec 26 when he dumps OW. Hahaha! Come on, it has been 9 months almost!Again, if she were different I would be more threatened but I know it will end!
Also, going to his sister's house to see his mom may be more of the above...that he can show we can co parent and stay friends. I just saw his mom and sister the other week when I invited them to come and see S at our house. So I don't need to see them really.
And I think 2 other times during our Separation we have gone together to visit his family. So I think it would be a 180 if I didn't go. I could just wait until Sunday and when he shows up, say "you know, I really need to put away the Christmas stuff! I think I'll stay here this time and you can go ahead! Say hi to your mom for me!"
I am open to disagreement but just wanted to explain my thinking. Does it make sense? (to not go with him) Or not? Opinions please.
Oh and Ravenly, I seriously doubt he tells OW the truth about what we do together. It would just upset her. He can't have that now can he?
Another thing...he said he could give our S his present on his day off (Wed) unless I wanted to make him wait until Christmas (Fri). I did get him a couple of gifts...just his favorite whiskey and a starbucks gift card. I also got him stocking stuffers but I decided not to give them or put up his stocking-only our son's stocking is hanging.
Oh and I love my friend that I visited today! She gave me earrings and perfume and an outfit for S. She said she gave me "romantic" gifts because she knew I wouldn't be getting any this year. How sweet of her!
ANd when I arrived at my house I had flowers on my step, delivered from a friend I met on another infidelity forum! So thoughtful!! You can imagine that at first my heart skipped and I hoped they were from WH. BUt he has only ordered flowers for me once and rarely brought them for me. (I am such an old fashioned girl- flowers, chocolate, perfume, jewelry are all my favorites!)
Newmama. I truly wish to apologize. I read your story. Read some more stories. Got mixed up. And posted. I learned a lesson. To reread.
But....
I do think I can really help you. I understand what your husband felt. I think as we talk this all out. You will see this. I am just 6 years ahead in years.
And your girlfriend today. You are lucky. Guys we do not have that. Its a huge difference. You lean on your girls. And you make sure when they lean on you. You are there. You do not need any man when you got good girls. Remember that.
Ask any question and I will answer them. I truly believe I can give you a different shade of grey on the answers. Close but not 100%
Worrying about cake eating leads to conversations about boundaries. Talks about boundaries will not work.
Now....do not pre-plan and ASK him if he can babysit. Just tell him you'll be back in a couple of hours. And then do that. Whereveryo yuou go .....LAUGH. LAUGH YOUR ARSE OFF.
So, don't discuss boundaries--just set them? Is this what you mean?
exactly
you don't really have an audience when you're talking anyway
Cutter, I was not offended that you got my story mixed up! I have gone back to reread your story or P's and others as well!
:-)
Do you have the same top ENs as my WH? Is your primary love language acts of service?
I do think your perspective can be useful but at the same time, you sound more mature than WH! And you tried to communicate with your WW about your needs, right?
I guess I could just use ideas
oops-meant to finish--
So I would really appreciate more ideas for ways I can show that I have improved my ways. Or what you think he would appreciate.Your tupperware idea would have been 100% if we were together!
I need to work on asking him new things about himself without being obvious. He has made this so hard in the past (after our initial courtship phase) that I may have just given up after getting yes or no answers and little elaboration. For example, when I ask him about his work, he barely says anything, or if he would ever want to do _ and why. Or about childhood--he "doesn't remember." And I am the one who brings up things to talk about. This aspect of our relationship has always frustrated me but I just assumed it would get easier as we built a history together and as I helped him feel more comfortable or secure. It's not silent between us, but I need conversation about personal stuff to feel close. I also didn't want to hurt his feelings or alarm him by bringing this up (dumb, I know. I dated a lot before WH but relationships lasted 6 months; 1 lasted 1 year. Inexperienced.)
BTW, the thread from Marriagebuilders that was pretty close to my sitch was Kloe72 from 2003. In her case, she was separated 7 months prior to her baby being born. He started coming by to help around the house (she was pregnant) and she plan A'd him. Then when the baby was born, WH moved in just to help with the baby but ended up staying and they worked things out. But both of them never discussed their relationship or the future. They both avoided it until WH brought it up after he decided to stay with her. He said he missed his life and he just got tired of doing the bachelor thing while seeing OW. He dropped her suddenly when he made up his mind to work things out.
Okay this morning I am feeling better. In reality, nothing bad happened last night other than WH arriving in an upbeat mood. I need to be patient, letting my actions chip, chip away! I also need to create distance to let him miss me.
I think just as WH might be normalizing, I am getting used to his "niceness" and am not reading into as much as I was. Like so what? He still has't left OW.
On the otherhand, it did take about 8 weeks before WH told me that he noticed I was cooking different dishes and that he thought it was impressive.
Tonight I will figure out a better evening routine. Here is what I have been doing and WH (approximate):
5:45-6:30 work out on elliptical watching DVD (loud)
WH is playing with S, feeds him, then gives him a bath
6:30-6:50 freshen up
WH is playing with S or bath
6:50-7:15ish cook dinner (I prep it before WH gets here)
WH is giving S evening bottle
7:15-8:15 eat dinner, watch TV/chat with WH
WH is putting S to sleep, then eats dinner. Hangs out until 8 or 8:15
Tomorrow when he is here on his day off, he might be expecting me to do something special like I did for Thanksgiving. But I wasn't planning on it. Just give him 2 presents from S and I (totally common even w/ divorced couples to gt gifts from the kids). Good or bad idea to not do something special like Thanksgiving?
If it's tomorrow (ie. the 23rd) then it's not a traditionally special night so why would you do something special? I wouldn't bother.
He expects you to do it ... do a 180.
Just my 2p worth.
I agree w/ P17 - don't do anything special.
ok--I won't! thanks, guys! Good to get your 2p, P17! It's probably worth morethan 2 cents!
ok--I won't! thanks, guys! Good to get your 2p, P17! It's probably worth morethan 2 cents!
Probably worth about 1.4 cents ... just roughly
Man, it must be Christmas coming up. I just feel soooo pissed off that he is still with OW. The weird thing is that normally a year goes by and it feels like a year. Because crap was going down this time last year, I can remember so many things as if they happened a month ago. It really seems like yesterday that we were preparing for my family to come over, the lights were on the house, the tree was up...on Christmas last year he got me a digital photo picture frame. Tonight he goes to get it so I can transfer photos of our son onto it. I can't remember if I brought it up, probably. But I hope he remembers the dirty secret he was keeping when he bought it for me.Tomorrow he will transfer photos from my laptop to the memory card and set up the picture frame.
Tonight I just felt so pissed off and distant. He arrived in a good mood again. Instead of working out, I started dinner then left to go to a nearby store to pick up some stuff. I came back and continued dinner. Because my aunt came over to visit, our S didn't get his usual naps and was tired (again). So we ate dinner together and then he put him to bed. He said he likes to wait an extra 15 or 20 minutes or so to make sure he is asleep. I realized that's why he hangs out extra. I should have known.
So I need to prepare myself for the worst. I will get through this. I will be okay. The thing is, I could forgive him for betraying me but I don't know how I can forgive him for taking my son from me if we D. He will be a good dad, it's just that I could have had my son full time and could have had a family. Instead, I will see my son part time. I feel my blood boil at the thought as well as my heart implode....again.
I posted mysery loves company lyrics on P's thread. BUt I feel like I am going to have a string of bad days,like the movie Groundhog's Day. So back in 2001 I remember this song playing all the time on the top 40 radio station by Fuel:
Had a bad day again
She said I would not understand
She left a note and said, "I'm sorry I
had a bad day again"
She spilled her coffee, broke her shoelace
Smeared the lipstick on her face
Slammed the door and said, "I'm sorry I
had a bad day again"
And she swears there's nothing wrong
I hear her playing that same old song
She puts me off and puts me on
And had a bad day again
She said I would not understand
Left a note and said, "I'm sorry I
had a bad day again"
No...
And she swears there's nothing wrong
I hear her playing that same old song
She puts me off and puts me on
Oh and had a bad day again
She said I would not understand
She left a note and said, "I'm sorry I
had a bad day...again"
She left a note and said, "I'm sorry I
had a bad day..."
Ahh...ah ah...ahh...ah ah...alright
Oooh...ooh ooh
Ohhh...oh ohh...
Cutter, I was not offended that you got my story mixed up! I have gone back to reread your story or P's and others as well!
:-)
Do you have the same top ENs as my WH? Is your primary love language acts of service?
I do think your perspective can be useful but at the same time, you sound more mature than WH! And you tried to communicate with your WW about your needs, right?
I guess I could just use ideas
Mine is quality time. Then Acts of service and physical touch. Affirmation and receiving gifts are the lowest.
Yea I complained about the quality time. Quite abit.
And yes I was quiet about work and childhood. Nor did I ask too many questions on her past. I just liked being around. Same room or just the sound of her near by. That was what felt good. Always phoned 2 times a day. Planned out a nice dinner for her. And well she got in late from work. So had to watch tv or something like that. Which was kind of boring. Liked doing small thoughtful things for her. Little things. Like remove the snow from the car for her. Buy her a book on quotes of her fav. sport. make her cd's of music. She thought I was very set in my ways. Which I am. I am working on that. Getting out of patterns. I was a conflict avoider. Thats for sure. I know better now.
P17 posted a link in Daybyday's thread about going dark: the pros and cons and when and how to do it.I gathered these comments to be meaningful to me:
If you want there to ever be a future between you and your spouse, I believe you have to let your spouse take the journey that is rightfully theirs, even if they way they are communicating that to you sucks. Even if it hurts like nothing else you've ever felt. If you love them, you have to let them go through that.
And you can't keep looking over to see if they are done yet. It's suffocating. Instead, this is your chance to learn new things. Walk around in your feelings and see what is unhealed in you that makes it so easy for you to feel crazy about this crappy situation in which you find yourself.
You have the gift of time now, and the focusing energy of pain. Don't feel all of this pain without getting your money's worth. Surrender to what is really happening. Face it head on.
The key to DBing, whether it's the last resort, going dark, acting as if, or just focusing on the exceptions, is to try something, notice the results and allow those results to guide your future actions. Modify your approach if your spouse responds in undesirable ways. Keep doing what seems to be working. This sort of mind set will get you a lot further than trying to think of what's right or wrong. If your marriage becomes more loving, it's right. IF you push your spouse away and what you want is a close relationship, it's wrong. THis makes life somewhat simpler.
I feel somewhat inspired. I think my WH is not doing anything worse than he was; and he has been more positive in the last couple of months, but he is "flattening out" If I am wrong, someone please tell me! So I don't think I am pushing him away, but perhaps he is feeling comfortable? I suspect he is just doing things nicely out of guilt. I am worried a little if I change too abruptly it will push him away.
I did have a friend from a different forum tell me that he thinks my WH may be giving me a 180 of sorts with his extra good moods because he noticed I am going out. ???? Does this make sense?
I feel insane--up and down. Up and down.
Cutter, my WH did used to say that just being with me was what made him happy. He didn't call 2x per day though...we always only called each other before heading home from work. Our schedules were not in sync with me teaching all day and he had various meetings or being at his desk.
He is also BIG on affirmation, perhaps b/c he is less secure than you are? I love affirmation so I am insecure, too!
Liked doing small thoughtful things for her. Little things. Like remove the snow from the car for her. Buy her a book on quotes of her fav. sport. make her cd's of music. She thought I was very set in my ways.
THIS sounds JUST LIKE WH!! He was/is sooo thoughtful. I am a big picture person, so if I know he likes cigars or pinot noir for example, I would get him some of those things. But I would not notice the year and vineyard of the pinot noir he liked or the style of cigar (he indulges like 4xa year but still collects them!) He was detail person.
So, I am trying to be aware of those things. I am giving him a photo of S inside a picture frame that says I love my Daddy that he can put on his desk. I think this may count as a thoughtful gesture. I made sure he had fresh towels in the bathroom for S's bath instead of making him go to get them from the cupboard. He loves Mtn. Dew for a caffeine pick me up so I made sure it is stocked in the fridge. Are these things on the right track?
I used to show love to him with affection, admiration, and conversation.
OK WH will be here today, in a couple of hours. My plan:
8-10:30 workout,long shower
10:30-11:30 go to store, get lunch
11:30-12 visit with S
12-1:30 wrap presents
1:30-3:30 ???
maybe I'll adjust the schedule, go to a movie and get popcorn!
I will be in better spirits today.I will be in better spirits today.I will be in better spirits today.
Newmama - Sounds like a productive day, mixed w/fun! Go to the movie! I want to see Blindsided, and my kids are at soccer camp all day. Wish you lived near!
Have fun! Keep your spirits up
Cutter, my WH did used to say that just being with me was what made him happy. He didn't call 2x per day though...we always only called each other before heading home from work. Our schedules were not in sync with me teaching all day and he had various meetings or being at his desk.
He is also BIG on affirmation, perhaps b/c he is less secure than you are? I love affirmation so I am insecure, too!
Liked doing small thoughtful things for her. Little things. Like remove the snow from the car for her. Buy her a book on quotes of her fav. sport. make her cd's of music. She thought I was very set in my ways.
THIS sounds JUST LIKE WH!! He was/is sooo thoughtful. I am a big picture person, so if I know he likes cigars or pinot noir for example, I would get him some of those things. But I would not notice the year and vineyard of the pinot noir he liked or the style of cigar (he indulges like 4xa year but still collects them!) He was detail person.
So, I am trying to be aware of those things. I am giving him a photo of S inside a picture frame that says I love my Daddy that he can put on his desk. I think this may count as a thoughtful gesture. I made sure he had fresh towels in the bathroom for S's bath instead of making him go to get them from the cupboard. He loves Mtn. Dew for a caffeine pick me up so I made sure it is stocked in the fridge. Are these things on the right track?
I used to show love to him with affection, admiration, and conversation.
Think of it this way. ( My view on my self )
It was a very nice jesture that you picked up the wine and cigar. I would enjoy them very much because you took some time to pick up something that I enjoyed. Very thoughtful. But I would have rather gone out with you and picked them out and you explaining to me why that one caught your eye. Then buy them. That would have ment more.
Same with the Mtn. Dew. I would rather have gone shopping and got them. Spent time with you. Maybe get dragged around to look at some shoes. Maybe I take off to some electronic store. But were out together. And our independence is working together. Both doing different things. But at the same time we meet back up. Whats 15 to 20 minutes in an afternoon of puttering about.
My life before all this came down. Revolved around weekend daytrips. Little gardening. Wife home at 7 PM with dinner waiting. If we had sports then we would see each other later. Then she started to work more and more. So 7PM became 8PM. ( 1 hour commute each way ) But she would call. And at the end of the week. She would be beat. So I planned the weekend around the little things she would like. She complained about the commute and her work. I stated I did not like my work anymore.
Our weekends changed from puttering about to going to look at stuff to fix the kicthen. But she would not write anything down. Stick to a plan. So I got frustrated. Our precious time together was been destroyed.
So I would plan out vacations so we could find ourselves again. Spend hours and hours working on them. It felt like I was with her doing all this work and planning out our trip. Then we would go away and spend 2 weeks toghether. It would reset our clocks. We enjoyed each others company. Had a good time.
Then we would fall back into the routine again. So I started to add extra activities to do in the evenings because I was lonely. When I complained about it. I also stated I knew that this was small sacafrices to pay now for the future togheter when we could spend more time togheter.
Our last trip together was last fall. It was a veg and relax week at a resort. And we fell completely in love again. Our love was always there. But the inlove really kicked in.
Then came the promotions at work. And the conversations about how it was going to be very hard for me over the next few months to year as she was going to have to work many hours. My feelings of being a part time husband crept back. So I started to do more and more little things for her so we could spend time together. But at the same time I started to set up a different life for myself as well. I also started to drink lots of wine to avoid dealing with what was going on in my head.
As time went on. I felt that I was being taken advantage of. Here I was doing all the work around the house, cooking , cleaning and just being alone. While I had a full time job that was also time consuming. I just felt that I was being used. So now when she bought me a gift. I resented it. Here she was saying she was so busy with work but she could get me something after work that I could pick up myself. I wanted time together not gifts. I felt as if they were guilt gifts due to not seeing each other anymore. So I countered again by just saying I am not going to do these little things for her. Lets see if she will pick up the slack. Lets see if she still cares about her surroundings. Lets see if she cares about me. And I watched silently as everything fell apart in the house. I became depressed. Shut down. (This is when the EA started ... ) So now I would complain about the time apart. I would show how unhappy I was. And she would counter by working to 9pm and being sleepy all weekend. Or girls weekends. 3 real ones. One fake one. I knew the fake one because she brought back beer and cheese for me. But it was the experience of buying that beer and cheese I wanted. Not the beer and cheese.
I wrote her a six page letter telling her that the most important thing in the world to me was spending time with her. And I spilled my guts on the previous paragraphs. I gave it to her 2 days before D day.
It shocked her to the core. I opened up. I expressed how much I loved her.
I did notice that when she tossed out our keepsakes ( cards , etc ) she did not toss that letter out. I also noticed that when she used spite against me near the end. She took all her stuff that she needed and left her dress behind. Its the only thing that hangs up in one room. That was her attacking me via her love languages. Parting gifts to hurt. As its how she communicates. I also returned the favour. I denyed her music, pictures, and completely communicated to her that I would not do any little thoughtful things for her by using silence and in-difference. It is also being dark. But I knew I was using this as a weapon as well.
I do know she took that card and letter with her. Because she was very visual on leaving things behind. All her actions are very visual. Just like how mine are sutle.
Were your husband and I differed was that I took up coaching to counter the alone. I also took up red wine. I shut down. Escaped into my own world.
Would I have walked if this kept up??? I do not know the answer to that question. It is one I think about though. Her mom thought I was going to walk 5 years ago. When she was a "bitch on wheels" to quote her mom. I did not. Nor did I think I would. I stood firm and silent as a husband. And weathered the storm. And it is then when it started to spiral down. I will talk about that time frame in detail later. You have enough here to read.
Does this help you in anyway?
Cutter, thanks so much for your feedback! My WH also planned weekend getaways and trips for us! I did make an effort to plan weekend things but nothing major, visiting friends or going out to dinner. We fell into a routine many times. Last year, which is what is so puzzling, I totally found and planned lots of activities to do with him. Things were pickingup. He said he was ready to start a family. Perhaps it was too little too late since OW had started to work at his workplace and they had started to become friends-she had pursued pursued and I guess he gave in. ???
Mindfull, thanks for chiming in! I, too, wish I had some "single moms" to hang out with when WH is here. Maybe the moms from the single parent group would be interested. I found the group on meetup.com and there are groups all over the USA and the world.
I ended up not going to a movie. Was busy around the house and then ran errands, worked out,etc.
I gave WH his presents from us. He liked them and especially loved the I love Daddy picture frame with a photo of S. He went to the garage and came back with presents for me. As always, he was very thoughtful. One of the gifts was a stack of papers--I was thinking What the?
I opened them and they were print outs of different baby classes. He said that he wanted to pay for a class per month while I was at home with our S and found some but told me that he would be open to whatever classes I wanted. I was so touched!He also got me a very nice Cuisinart immersion blender.
I mentioned how I wanted one once, and, just like heis, he remembered.
I couldn't help but chuckle that he hid the present for me in the garage. Gee, couldn't keep it at your empty apartment? Or at OW's place? Guess she doesn't know. ha ha.
Today I managed to be pleasant and civil. He arrived with starbucks for me without asking me, even the size I like. He was sure to check with me as he did stuff with S to see if it fit the routine we usually follow. I told him he was doing a great job taking care of S and seemed to have it down. I could tell that compliment meant a lot to him because he puffed up his chest a little and got a proud look on his face!
Now, like I mentioned before, (or did I?) It does concern me that he has taken my demeanor to mean that I am totally fine with the coparenting situation and that it will all be okay if he divorces me. I want to think positive thoughts but it is so hard because I don't want to be devestated if he brings up divorce next month.
I do want to call my DB coach but don't know if I should save the last session for if he brings up D. I never asked what to say.
What about "Well, you know I don't want the divorce. I would rather be separated as you work things out instead of going through the divorce. Please only do this if you are 100% sure."
I WANT to say "you and I and everyone all know that your relationship with OW will not last. It is just a fact. Please don't throw away our marriage because you will totally regret it. I plan ondating and meeting someone special and you will be alone" Of course I CAN'T say that. But I fantasize about it.
I pray to God that things are rocky between them, that he is just trying to get through the holidays and that maybe as soon as next month he will come to his senses.
I found this from Jo Jo's Circus in the Piecing forum:
These are the things that I hope to coninue to carry over into 2010
Faith: Believing in something even if you can't see it.
Hope: The feeling of that which is wanted can be.
Love: Unconditionally.
I hope that each and everyone here finds these things in the coming year!
Merry Chritmas everyone, and may the new year be a new beginning.
JAK
Very inspiring.
Hi cutter and newmama--
Catching up on the threads. Will read LL on my journeys.
Frustrated still, as ever, that I don't have any opportunity to "see what works." If NC, NC! Can't try flirty; can't try aloof (though we know aloof is more of the same!). Sorry if I sound like a broken record.
So while it will be good for future R's to know about LL, at this point I could be an expert on what X would respond well to, but no way to show him.
After the holidays I may try some contact. I know, I know, but the mantra of DB is "try something; monitor; change if necessary." If silence from me brings silence from him...try something else?
Again, it would just be little check in emails about town activities, funny stories, that sort of thing. All I can do is monitor results, right?
I won't do the above, though, without a lot of thought and input from this group!
Let's just get Xmas and NYE over with, and proceed to a new year. This would be a good time for someone to invent suspended animation--just wake up on Jan. 4th and start over.
This would be a good time for someone to invent suspended animation--just wake up on Jan. 4th and start over.
boy do I agree! If you scroll back, you will se a quote from Michele Weiner Davis that actually may support what you are saying. She pretty much says that if you were distant before the bomb, it's not necessarily good to be distant after. You should be doing a 180 of what you used to do.
food for thought...
... but remember he is having an affair.
Cutter, do you mean it is different for those of us who are separated because of infidelity? I didn't know that.
BTW, WH has our S today from 2-7. I have him all day tomorrow which is when my family comes over. That's why I am on here, off and on today. I am preparing the house, by myself, for our 16 relatives. Am not trying to sound like woe is me, but it is a big ordeal to manage alone. ANGRY FACE ANGRY FACE!
put on some good music. Dance around and clean and prepare as much stuff as possible for tomorrow.
good advice! I am signing off now!
That's the problem!
and thus my thread...how to 180 when you've been the aloof one...
Does the fact that he is in an A change the sitch?
If my more of the same is to withdraw, not pursue, not show affection...well, that's what I'm doing, acting exactly how he expects me to.
You see the problem!
So--I will have to ponder--maybe reading LL will help--if there is a way to initiate gentle contact.
I get it, I truly get it that while he is in the A he doesn't give two hoots about me; but if I just keep doing what I have always done--the sitch won't change.
Well. You all have Xmas events to take care of and cleaning and baking and such.
I hope the holidays go as well as they can, and I will check back in during my long travel days on Saturday and Sunday.
Be well-
OK just had to say that I worked my BUTT off and did it all by myself! WH just dropped off our S a little early and noted all of the work I did (moving around furniture, cleaning, cooking). He said S was fussy (HAHA!!!)Neither of us said Merry Christmas and I didn't hug him although I thought about it earlier. He lingered a little and then left.
Whooo...will have a spiked egg nog to reward myself for all of my hard work!
Avermont, it could be good if you do not email or contact except or bill paying. He will notice that you stopped communicating if you hav been doing it all along. When you meet for bill paying, look fantastic snd drop hints about what you've been doing. You can also show neediness by asking his advice This process could take several months. You have a shared history on your side. Meanwhile live your life; put him on the back burner. His A WILL END!
Oh, help here...
Newmama, I really have not been communicating except for the bills, and the 2 little emails (since October)
but I am shattered right now-I emailed X's mom to see if he was here in town on Xmas eve so I could feel safe going out to the bar last night. Which I did, and was glad I did so.
But his mom just emailed back that they left on Tuesday (my birthday)
to fly to Chicago (her family) and then will go visit her in AZ for a long weekend.
Everyone--X has a very difficult relationship with his mom. She is not very pleasant, and hard to introduce sig others to--just because he is awkward and embarrassed around her, and she can be awkward.
HOW SERIOUS is this!!! he goes to her fam AND his mom for Xmas. This is no flash in the pan. this is real.
Well, I shouldn't ask for information if I can't handle it. Now I am weeping and sobbing on the floor. Guess that feeling of detachment I had on Monday is out the window.
X's mom is on my side, but of course she will be polite and of course wants her son to be happy no matter what.
But I have just knocked myself a 2x10 to the head, and am just crumpled up with renewed grief.
5 LL--whatever! Clearly the OW speaks his LL clearly enough.
I thought there might be some shred of hope because at our last bill paying it was a total turn around from the first--he initiated conversation, and at the end, introduced another topic--prolonging the contact.
But maybe that's just him relaxing as the guilt and uncertainty fades, and he settles happily into his new life.
Sorry to be a drag on Xmas, everyone.
Back to the kleenex---
Girl. Get up. And take those 2 steps forward.
You are strong. And you are becoming more intune with your emotions.
And when its gets tough. We will be here for you. For we care deeply about you.
Cutter.
Avermont, my WH spent Christmas with his OW's family. It's hard but all too common. And this week has been so hard for me, too, haven't cried in a long time and cried every day this week. This morning I got up and attempted to get the house more prepared and finish what I started (had to rearrange furniture, cook, take care of S, wrap some more presents, do another load of dishes). It really made me realize how much WH did to help.
I enlisted the help of my sisters, drove to pick them up, and they really did help out! Now I have a huge mess to clean up though. Definitely feeling alone.
But the Christmas party was fun; everyone played with S and he is worn out! He got lots of new books and clothes and toys!
So I have one more to go to-my dad's. S has 2 more to go to- my dad's and WH's mom's.
WH texted me this morning to check on S, wished us a Merry Christmas. I just replied back about S. He texted again telling us to have a good Christmas. I replied back "Thanks, we will!"
I will NOT and DID NOT wish him a Merry Christmas. Hope he noticed.
I know everyone thinks it's over between us and there is no hope. But I still have hope!
Avermont, there is nothing that I can add that the others haven't said.
What is happening is normal.
One thing that I have realised in the last week (since just before seeing my IC actually) is that I want to get rid of hope. All hope of an R to my M. Because hope is what is holding me back and making me dragging my feet on finding what I'm looking for. Kill the hope. Maybe it is something that may help you too?
Your detachment goes up and down like a yo yo. It's because you're not truly detached. And I'm not saying that as one who is, I'm not either. I had a bad 3-4 days last week where I had a large pity party in here. I feel better now. You will feel better in a few days too. Just remember that - hit rock bottom, embrace it and then feel better. Each time I (you) hit rock bottom you get stronger when you come back and you learn something new about this journey. Sounds all wishy washy but it's true.
No matter whether the OW speaks his LL or not doesn't matter. She could have 15 heads and be from the planet Thargon - he's in love with her just now. That might be hard to hear but you know this. The chemicals are flooding the brain. Nothing matters to him just now. Nothing at all. Not you. Not his job. Not his mum. Nothing. When those chemicals stop flowing (and they will or he'd be dead - you can't keep that energy up forever!) then reality will start to slowly creep back into their lives.
A's are based on lies, deceit, hurt, guilt, upset and immorality. That is why so few of them ever move beyond a 'fling'. Your R with your H is based on love, understanding, caring, shared memories and commitment. He has none of those with OW and it's statistically unlikely he ever will.
I can't believe I'm saying this but you and I need to just be patient. And while we are doing that you must go down the road and learn and heal. One that journey one of two things will happen - H will come back and tell you he wants to try again. H will come back and tell you it's over and is filing for D. The point of the journey is that by the time they come to you and ask these questions, you can deal with either of them calmly and confidently.
Chin up girl. Things will be better in a few days. I promise that.
WH texted me this morning to check on S, wished us a Merry Christmas. I just replied back about S. He texted again telling us to have a good Christmas. I replied back "Thanks, we will!"
I will NOT and DID NOT wish him a Merry Christmas. Hope he noticed.
He noticed. Why do you think he texted you the same thing again?
I know everyone thinks it's over between us and there is no hope. But I still have hope!
I don't think it's over between you two. I think, out of all the sitches in this forum, you have the best chance at R.
I may have said all this before but I have been thinking about you today and your sitch.
Your H strikes me as a guy who is being controlled by OW and is simply too scared and indecisive to drop her. I get the feeling he simply hasn't got a clue what to do or what he is actually doing and is simply 'along for the ride'. The texts, the talks, the time he is spending with you just strike me as somebody who is cake eating but also somebody who is maybe reaching out a little. I'm not sure. Maybe I'm off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. It would be nice if he manned up though and did the right thing, whatever that may be.
So WH just came to pick up S. I let him know about how S was, and all the presents he got, etc. I was tempted to mention other details like how much fun we had but didn't want to rub it in his face. I think he can tell from the mess!
He was going to give S a bath when he dropped him off today but I explained that we are going to my dad's and was wondering if we could "exchange" S in the Taco Bell parking lot on the side of town where my dad lives when he is done seeing him. I think he was a little surprised.
I just explained that I don't want S to have to be in the car for so long today and it would cut an extra 40 minutes. He said that was fine.
Now tomorrow he is expecting that I will go to his mom's with him, and his mom sent me an email wishing me Merry Christmas saying "I look forward to seeing you and S." But I did see her recently and I totally think she will not be offended if I don't go. So I really will need to take down all of the Christmas stuff tomorrow and will surprise WH again I think when I tell him I won't be going. I won't be making a huge deal, just say "well, sorry but I think I'll pass this time because I really need to take down the Christmas stuff! Say hi for me!"
Believe it or not, these 2 actions scare me. I just am so much better at being agreeable and pleasant than doing things like making him drop off our S in a parking lot or not going with him to his mom's. (And going to his mom's is not a sign of anything; we have gone together in the past since the S).
Believe it or not, these 2 actions scare me. I just am so much better at being agreeable and pleasant than doing things like making him drop off our S in a parking lot or not going with him to his mom's. (And going to his mom's is not a sign of anything; we have gone together in the past since the S).
It's a 180. Both of them. And they are good ones, particularly the one of not going to his mum's. That shows him and them that you guys are not a couple anymore and separated people don't do these things. They will also wonder why you weren't there and ... oh, they'll remember he's having an A ...
Good on you.
P.S. I usually leave the Xmas stuff up until the start of January!
I don't think it's over between you two. I think, out of all the sitches in this forum, you have the best chance at R.
Seriously? I was thinking it is starting to look dismal! He left me when I was pregnant and has remained with her since S was born...9 months now! I mean I do have hope but it seems like the light is getting dim (I think of hope as looking like light shining down from a dark sky)
Your H strikes me as a guy who is being controlled by OW and is simply too scared and indecisive to drop her. I get the feeling he simply hasn't got a clue what to do or what he is actually doing and is simply 'along for the ride'. The texts, the talks, the time he is spending with you just strike me as somebody who is cake eating but also somebody who is maybe reaching out a little. I'm not sure. Maybe I'm off base, but that's the impression I'm getting. It would be nice if he manned up though and did the right thing, whatever that may be.
P, this is rather insightful--this seems plausible--he is the kind of person who doesn't make major decisions quickly and mulls them over until he decides. So if he is going along for the ride and maybe reaching out, is it bad that I have started pulling away a little? I keep reading advice given to other BSs on here or in newcomers. Sandi says they need to hit rock bottom or face the fear of losing something major before coming out of it. So I have been thinking about pulling away more and more and telling him he needs to take S with him on his days off instead of coming here; but 8 hours is too long for S to be away.
ANd continuing this thought: if he is indecisive, let's say, and going along for the ride, then could he be looking for signs from me saying "I am done" to help him decide to D? (I know it's mind reading but I think it's okay to brainstorm possible scenarios) Is it bad that I have been so nice and caring and then by switching to being more distant it will give him the wrong message? Ugghh...confused...
P, I usually leave Christmas stuff up until after New Year's but I really am ready for it to be over considering this year! So I'll be taking it down!
Seriously? I was thinking it is starting to look dismal!
You're on the ground there. I'm a few thousand miles away and only have a few posts to go on ...
He left me when I was pregnant and has remained with her since S was born...9 months now! I mean I do have hope but it seems like the light is getting dim (I think of hope as looking like light shining down from a dark sky)
It is getting dim. But maybe the light needs to go out completely before things will change around. While the light is on at all, he can still see you and S. Maybe when the light goes out and he can't see you anymore, it may make a difference?
P, this is rather insightful--this seems plausible--he is the kind of person who doesn't make major decisions quickly and mulls them over until he decides. So if he is going along for the ride and maybe reaching out, is it bad that I have started pulling away a little?
I'm going to answer that without answering it as I simply don't know. It could go either way. I'll explain with my own sitch.
W is the kind of woman who doesn't handle rejection. She would rather walk away than fight for something in case she got rejected - she's a coward (like all WAS's). If we look at NC just now as purely getting the spouse back (as that is a tiny part of it) then NC for me is a HUGE gamble and one I actually think I will lose. She will EITHER see me pulling away as rejection and my acceptance than the M is over and walk off into the sunset with OM even if it's not what she wants to do. OR she will come around as pulling away is supposed to make them do.
Your H could be the same. Pulling away could make him say 'oh well, it's over' and he will just move on (as you have a S that would be insane in my book but then I ain't your H) or he will see you walking away and get a sudden realisation of what the h*ll he actually wants.
My thinking in your case is that the cake eating he is doing (and I know you're well aware of it) is actually just postponing whatever decision he will make. He has two women who love him, a S, a stable wife and homemaker who will be there for him, a crazy fantasy like women who will be there for him ... he has everything he could want. You need to take that away from him. He may choose to stay with OW or he may choose to come back to you or he may even choose to walk away from both of you. However he will at least have made a decision and you will know the answer which will allow you to make a decision for yourself.
I keep reading advice given to other BSs on here or in newcomers. Sandi says they need to hit rock bottom or face the fear of losing something major before coming out of it. So I have been thinking about pulling away more and more and telling him he needs to take S with him on his days off instead of coming here; but 8 hours is too long for S to be away.
Is it too long though? I don't know the reasons (although I can obviously guess some) but would it be worth the sacrifice?
I agree that the WAS has to have the A end and to hit rock bottom before they realise what they have done. Some never do. Although you can help them along that road to hitting rock bottom by pulling the rug out from under them. In my case it was NC for me and D.
Sandi2 is one person on here I don't tire of reading.
ANd continuing this thought: if he is indecisive, let's say, and going along for the ride, then could he be looking for signs from me saying "I am done" to help him decide to D? (I know it's mind reading but I think it's okay to brainstorm possible scenarios)
This is mindreading as you said.
Has he not said he wants to D anyway? (I can't remember entirely although I do remember you being worried about him talking about it before).
Maybe he is looking for signs from you to say you're not done and that the door back to you is still open? However, as far as I can see that's exactly what you have been doing and he has done nothing.
He may be looking for you being done so the D doesn't hurt you as much.
I think only you can make that call.
Is it bad that I have been so nice and caring and then by switching to being more distant it will give him the wrong message? Ugghh...confused...
It might actually be the exact thing you should have done. You are all nice and caring and he gets comfortable with things and then BAM ... you go dark and he has no idea what the h*ll has just happened. A huge 2x4 to the head that he didn't see coming.
Just my 2p worth.
Never posted to you before but following along. Just wanted to add a few GAL pointers that you maybe over looking.
First you should have just told him to meet you at the Taco Bell and not why...(be mysterious and be vague if he ask) You can say something like "we have somethings to do on that side of town.
Second~ when you decline going to his mom house.... be dressed to the nines and turn him down... so what if you just take down Christmas decorations... maybe he'll think you went out and took down decorations.... make sure you are dressed like that when he comes back....
You need to take advantage of these small situations. You are holding up amazingly and have a lot of grace.
He may be looking for you being done so the D doesn't hurt you as much.
This is my worry. What I don't get is that before October 15 (when he brought up the D last) I was not being mean, not being nice. On that day, I was sad and he saw me tearing up. So he brings up the D on that day??? Weird. I did turn things around the next day and told him 2 weeks later I didn't want the D (to which he looked surprised but said "I know.") But I did let him start taking S to OW on Saturdays.
Also, (and I am just looking for possible explanations for his behavior here,NOT trying to necessarily disagree with the idea he is looking for me to be done)
why hasn't he encouraged me to date or told me to "have fun" when I went out those last 2 times? Why has he been continuing to be nice instead of pulling away himself? Like I said, before I started doing this Plan A type thing, he was just kind of average. Polite. I start doing the cooking, cleaning, good mood, working out, looking good, complimenting and he is nice in return and has not brought it up since.
Yes, I know my H but not the WH alien.
Although I started to pull away, I remember what the DB coach said and I have said it repeatedly: don't read too much into things this month, good or bad, because the holidays play with everyone's emotions. Don't do anything too drastic. He encouraged me to keep up what I have been doing for the time being. So I hope I'm not effing it up...
Oh about the 8 hours on his day off; I was thinking 5-6 instead. My S is not even 6 months old yet.
Hi, Sandycay! Thanks for replying! I did not think about using the Taco Bell scenario as a GAL opportunity. He did know I was going to my dad's today, though. As for tomorrow, sure, I can get dressed up when he arrives! Good idea.
He may be looking for you being done so the D doesn't hurt you as much.
This is my worry. What I don't get is that before October 15 (when he brought up the D last) I was not being mean, not being nice. On that day, I was sad and he saw me tearing up. So he brings up the D on that day??? Weird.
Not so weird. Maybe he thought it was the best thing for you. Because you are upset.
W did something similar to me when I said how much I was enjoying myself when we had our 'there is no future for us' talk. She said that I was happier because I wasn't with her ... I said no, I was happier that we were not having problems anymore.
It makes them feel better to be the one to fall on their sword for you. See they gave you the D because you were hurting ... they really are good people WAS's.
why hasn't he encouraged me to date
Come on newmama. You know the answer to that one. Just because he may not want you doesn't mean he wants anybody else to want you. That is why dating CAN work in some sitches and is a controversial subject on here.
or told me to "have fun" when I went out those last 2 times?
Now you're mind reading. Could be a thousand reasons. Maybe he is DBing you? Maybe he doesn't care? Maybe he wants to pretend that you going out doesn't hurt him ... you will never know.
Why has he been continuing to be nice instead of pulling away himself?
Cake eating. My W was the same - it was like she never left after a while. They have the best of both worlds. Why on earth would anybody pull away from that ...
Like I said, before I started doing this Plan A type thing, he was just kind of average. Polite. I start doing the cooking, cleaning, good mood, working out, looking good, complimenting and he is nice in return and has not brought it up since.
Cake eating. Normalising. Maybe he even thinks you've accepted his new 'life' and he feels less guilty about it now.
Although I started to pull away, I remember what the DB coach said and I have said it repeatedly: don't read too much into things this month, good or bad, because the holidays play with everyone's emotions. Don't do anything too drastic. He encouraged me to keep up what I have been doing for the time being. So I hope I'm not effing it up...
You're not doing that. Remember you had S on Xmas morning - he didn't.
Oh about the 8 hours on his day off; I was thinking 5-6 instead. My S is not even 6 months old yet.
I was thinking that was the reason.
I worry a bit about this and the same way I worry about the NC I have. You can't DB the WAS (other than GAL) when you have no contact with them. If you start having W seeing S away from your home, your contact is reduced to next to nothing. That may be desirable but it's just something to bear in mind if you haven't thought about it.
P,thanks so much for your "tough love" and honest replies! So if he brought up the D because he thought I was hurting, (which makes excellent sense) then maybe he hasn't brought it up because I have been doing fine. So he has bought himself more time. I guess what I do see is that if he wants a D, nothing will stop him from pursuing one.
My DB coach also said to change up the schedule sometimes so I think I have been doing that. Earlier when you brought up the possibility that he could be reaching out (testing the waters), I started to second guess my decision to not go with him to his mom's. But I quickly conferred with my grandma who knows about everything, and she said one rebuff like that won't stop him from wanting to return if that is what he wants. She said that if I were to say "Hell no I'm not going! &^%$! etc" then that would be different. But politely explaining I am sorry but I have to get stuff done, then it won't be pushing him toward wanting to D.
Dang, last week I wasn't scared of the D. I hate rollercoasters (the real ones) as it is!
So if he brought up the D because he thought I was hurting, (which makes excellent sense) then maybe he hasn't brought it up because I have been doing fine. So he has bought himself more time. I guess what I do see is that if he wants a D, nothing will stop him from pursuing one.
I would agree with that. If he wants a D he will get one regardless.
mom's. But I quickly conferred with my grandma who knows about everything, and she said one rebuff like that won't stop him from wanting to return if that is what he wants. She said that if I were to say "Hell no I'm not going! &^%$! etc" then that would be different. But politely explaining I am sorry but I have to get stuff done, then it won't be pushing him toward wanting to D.
Mums (even grand-mums) know best ... listen to her. If he wants to D he will. You won't be pushing him farther away by not going with him.
Dang, last week I wasn't scared of the D. I hate rollercoasters (the real ones) as it is!
I was beginning to think you never went on them newmama and it was only me! Your positivity is always there but the negative times are good too ... makes us question ourselves which is never a bad thing!
ok, so I was talking to my friend and brought up the fact that I'm not going with WH to see his mom tomorrow but wasn't planning on telling him until tomorrow. She said she hated it when people flake out at the last minute and thought I should tell him today. That way it would seem more sincere, too.
Before I left, my SIL sent me a text asking if they could come over to give S and I our presents. I replied that it was very sweet but I was going to my dad's today but WH would be bringing S over tomorrow. She said she didn't know that!
So I was running late to meet him at Taco Bell (I HATE being late! Even if he runs late 60% time on his mornings to come here) and let him know I would be about 5-10 min. late.
When I arrived, he let me know the details about when he was fed, etc. then I told him how I had almost finished cleaning but still had more to do,plus tomorrow I needed to run errands and exercise so I won't be able to go with him to his mom's. He seemed unpeterbed and just said "yeah, I better call them to see if they'll still be in town" !!! So he never solidified plans which means he would rather not see his family, even on Christmas, (he's not that close to them...they are very different but at least he has always made the rounds on holidays with me joining him!) most likely due to avoiding confrontation because of the amazing, fantastical, sex oh I mean soul mate OW.
P, I have been through this almost a year if you count false R (see sig line). The rollercoaster ride has twists and turns, ups and downs, and plenty of smoother, albeit bumpy, stretches of track.I don't know what comes next--but I can't see the end!!
I do feel proud that I've stayed pretty consistent with my actions but I know I will screw up the distancing part. I don't know how to do it while seeing him 6 days per week. I want to rock the fence but am afraid to flip it over all the way onto OW's side.
By the time I started this thread, I had been through almost all of the hardest stuff. Now in the last 6-7 weeks, I've managed to get through visits to OW which was really hard and Christmas...but I wish I could skip New Year's. I do plan on NOT watching the ball drop and going to bed by 10 or 10:30. Oh, I do want a pina colada though.
So, just want to get through New Year's and on Jan 2, my 2010 can start.
I changed my plan a little...baby was too fussy so I couldn't take the time to get ready and all dressed up. But he is going to his mom's and I did tell him I had a lot to do so I didn't go.
Good News: he said "you're doing a good job cleaning lately."
he asked about my family wanted to know how everything went.
Bad news: he took a Victoria's Secret catalog with him. (he always gets the mail and we get one of those every other day it seems, but it often ends up in the recycling. I saw it was hiding under a cigar catalog that he took with him)
He has plans New Years...said he just wasn't sure what day he had off before, that was why he hadn't made plans (he volunteered this).
He asked me what I was doing. I know I'll get a 2x4 but I was honest and said I'd be staying in since our baby was too young to take to my friend's house.
I am going to schedule a session one last time with my DB coach. Do I really want a divorce? Am I prepared for real?
I changed my plan a little...baby was too fussy so I couldn't take the time to get ready and all dressed up. But he is going to his mom's and I did tell him I had a lot to do so I didn't go.
Good News: he said "you're doing a good job cleaning lately."
he asked about my family wanted to know how everything went.
Bad news: he took a Victoria's Secret catalog with him. (he always gets the mail and we get one of those every other day it seems, but it often ends up in the recycling. I saw it was hiding under a cigar catalog that he took with him)
He has plans New Years...said he just wasn't sure what day he had off before, that was why he hadn't made plans (he volunteered this).
He asked me what I was doing. I know I'll get a 2x4 but I was honest and said I'd be staying in since our baby was too young to take to my friend's house.
I am going to schedule a session one last time with my DB coach. Do I really want a divorce? Am I prepared for real?
maybe with him taking it means he will be home too!
Hi newmama. Hard days. Maybe its time you shut out yourself and the baby from him. I think you have been thinking about this. But I do not read minds.
Cutting out the love languages he knows. And grind him out of his life with mutual friends and family.
Make him actually live the life he has been pretending to live.
And make him pay support for you and the baby.
What do you think about that ???
Thank you, WL for the positive thinking. I just figured I would have bigger clues or a conversation from him to discuss our future if he wants to R.
Cutter, yes, YOU ARE PSYCHIC! haha I am thinking of cutting him off. I just will need to really figure out pros and cons and logistics and would love the support and advice from the forum to help me. I'll write more explanation later.
He came back from his mom's with some gifts for me from my MIL and SIL. It was very nice! I did kind of kick him out the door when he was on his way, saying I needed to get going with mopping and couldn't do it when they were here. I was also preserving my emotions and knew I would crack if he was there one fing minute longer!!
I was calm and pleasant when they returned, though.
Excellent... so good you knew how to preserve your emotions and not crack! Taking back some control.
I agree with cutter about having him live the life he is pretending to live. He wants it so badly, then have a taste of the real thing. See if it's REALLY as great as he thinks.
{{{newmama}}} You have been doing so great!!
I am not ready to do plan B/ going dark (as I can) yet. So I am continuing the same for now... Reason being? He is still in the A, but he hasn't brought up divorce. So my current plan is working to "stall" the divorce. Sure, you could argue "he'll do this forever!" but come on--that is ridiculous! NO he won't! Either I will do something different to rock the boat, or OW will crack before me. The weird thing is now it has been about a year since I was ahem, er "intimate between the sheets" with him. I worry that he will forget that he once found me irresistible. I guess I need to flirt to help that out.
My friend came to visit during the day. We had a good visit, ordered Chinese food for delivery, caught up on gossip, current events and played with my son.
WH came over after work and I stayed cheerful (but I was pissed off inside!) and brought up current events (it was helpful to have caught up with my friend so it was fresh on my mind). We conversed and this is a good thing because I am trying to find other things to talk about with him as well as just our son. I also managed to ask q's about him that I didn't know. Then I worked out, made dinner, and we watched TV. He stayed for the extra 20 minutes after S was asleep to "make sure" he was sleeping deeply.
I have managed to get compliments from him now for cooking and cleaning, so my next goal is to hear him compliment me on my appearance. That would be a "lover" kind of compliment versus "wifely" or "mother." I've lost 38 pounds so far! He must see it.
About the flirting...I feel weird and uncomfortable doing it because it is the one thing I'm not giving him...no affection or sex. Not while he is with another woman.
Tomorrow my aunt and cousins are visiting and then tomorrow night I'll be going out with teacher friends for drinks.
oh-my friend knows about the divorcebusting plan. She suggested I get a wii to do wii fit plus as well as play some fun Mario Brothers games (we grew up with Nintendo) and then it shows WH that I am willing and able to play video games; ones that I genuinely like so I'm being genuine. It's an idea...
Hi newmama. Keep on your plan A until you cannot do it anymore. But watch resentment. For it will build. Either you will know it or it will just jump out. And I asked you a question on my thread. Please reply.
But lets discuss Plan A and how to attack a giver. For I know what would hurt me. Rock the boat. So lets explore that area and see what works. And in return please explain yourself.
Cutter, sorry, what do you mean by explain myself? Do you mean what"rock the boat" would entail?
I don't know yet. One example is packing up his stuff, which doesn't sound like Plan A behavior. I don't want to mix Plan A with pulling back/NC because that doesn't sound like a strategy...it just sounds like being confusing. Then how would I monitor results? I'm open to suggestions!!!
ok I'm reviewing my steps:
-plan A(see Cutter's posts with the description)
-GAL
-being mysterious
I think that I am doing well with the top 2, but I should work on being more mysterious. I think that is a "happy medium" between NC and total plan A. This way, I get to be more distant but also be present enough for him to see my improvements. Again, he has been complimenting me and noticing them so I think based on those results, I should continue.
The other thing about the improvements and something DBD said about her WAW friend was that I need him to see they are permanent. Her WAW friend said she was skeptical at first of the 180 changes; not convinced they would last.
BTW I have these dreams where WH is touching me. One was where we were driving in the car, and he put his arm on top of mine.But last night was hilarious! I really thought it was real..I remember in the dream asking if I was dreaming. So in the dream I was wearing my pajamas from yesterday. I am standing at the kitchen counter. He comes up, brushes past me and then takes both hands and grabs my butt, squeezing it and lifting it up and down! (He actually used to do this kind of thing a lot when we were together! )Then he just walked by like nothing happened! haha! It didn't bother me, the dream just made me laugh.
What do you think about the wii idea? I truly do like mario brothers and there are some cooking games, and others. My friend loves the wii fit plus... this could show him I also like video games (something he and OW do together I think).
Cutter, "attacking a giver" sounds pretty interesting! I can think of some ideas and then bounce them off of you if you don't mind!
What do you think about the wii idea? I truly do like mario brothers and there are some cooking games, and others. My friend loves the wii fit plus... this could show him I also like video games (something he and OW do together I think).
Computer games sound an excellent 180 for you. He likes them. You, by th4e sounds of things never did. You now do. He sees a new you and sees you both have a new common interest. This may be a tough one to convince him on though. Just don't get Call Of Duty just yet ...
Cutter, "attacking a giver" sounds pretty interesting! I can think of some ideas and then bounce them off of you if you don't mind!
I'd be interested in that too.
This may be a tough one to convince him on though. Just don't get Call Of Duty just yet ...
Thank you, P, for responding! I did like rock band, guitar hero, american idol, wii bowling and trivia type games, and race car games although I suck! We did get the old nintendo games to play on game cube but I WOULD ASK HIM to play and he wouldn't want to!!! WTF? Grumpy gus! I should've said "if we play this now, we could play something else after, wink wink" (or switch the order?)
But you are correct. There were games we both liked and then the type of games I didn't like, OW did. I think if I tried to play those games it would look fake and obvious that I was trying to get him back.
But the wii for working out is plausible, and getting good at some games would help me in the dating world if he and I were to D.
Here's another q...Cutter might have good insight but anyone please answer as well...should I involve him in the purchasing part of the wii? I mean let him know I am going to get one and ask for suggestions on good places to look?
Here's another q...Cutter might have good insight but anyone please answer as well...should I involve him in the purchasing part of the wii? I mean let him know I am going to get one and ask for suggestions on good places to look?
IMO just get the WII and don't include him in any of it. It's for you not for him. Get the games you want to get for YOU and try and get him to play them (once you get good enough to challenge him).
going shopping for a wii....in case you are curious, WH and I split our savings and checking when we separated, opened individual accounts with the same bank, but we kept the joint account. We wrote out an agreement for the bills, and then I took a year off from work, he is paying my expenses (and son).
I took my sick leave and used most of it as a paycheck for a couple of months or so. I was able to put the money into my savings since WH is paying for my expenses (he agreed--guilt!)
So I spent a little here and there but still have more than when we split. Therefore, I can afford a Wii!
We are both government employees...I teach and he works for the federal government.
ok today's update:he texted me this morning, checking on S as usual (is this really necessary every day? I mean let's just assume S was fine and I'll let him know if there's a problem! but I am humoring him) I replied short and to the point. He sends back 2 text messages; one is a q. I answer. He sends back a longish reply and tells us to have a good day. I reply "thanks, you too!"
my aunt and cousins come over and take S and I out to lunch. We have a nice time but it starts to snow...unexpectedly and heavily. WH calls and says traffic is the worst he has ever seen...the freeways are terrible...I can tell he is hinting (like he does)that he doesn't think he should come over. I just ask him if he's not coming over. He says he will miss S but it would probably be better if he didn't risk it. I was talking to a friend on the other line so I just said "ok, drive careful, and I'll give S a kiss for you-see you in the morning!"
I go back to talking to mt friend and 20 minutes later he calls again! I don't click over this time. When I finish my call, I call him back.
He was feeling guilty I think because he tells me they closed one of the freeways he normally would take to get over here, and describes the dumb drivers around. He asks me how our day was. I chat with him about that and a few other topics.
We end up talking for about 10 minutes.(a long time for us to talk on the phone, LOL! I hate talking to him on the phone because he is a slow talker with pauses and I am a fast talker. Silence on the phone bugs me way more than silence in person!)
So I am noting the extra texts and conversation on his end.
Newmama,
Can I offer an alternative explanation on this. I think I have some insight, as I have done exactly this before. However I may be wrong (and I really do hope I am). But it's food for thought if nothing else.
Your H feels guilty. That is why, I believe the texts and the long phone call. Easing his guilt and convincing you of his reason.
You might be tired. Fancy watching the TV. Going out. Playing a computer game or just time to yourself. You see the weather and think you have your excuse so you call your childs mum / dad and say 'hey the weather is bad, don't think I should come to see little Bobbi as it's a bit dangerous' then you wait for the fallout. When there is none (which in your case there wasn't), you feel relief but you also feel a little guilty that you've had such a nice reaction to your lie excuse that you text and call the other parent to be nice to them back and also continue to convince them, AND YOU, of your excuse. See your not a bad person, you're chatting away to the other parent. You're a good person really.
I have done it. I think we all probably have. Not going to say it was my best moment but if it helps you some good came out of it.
I hope I am wrong, but it's just another viewpoint.
I have a lot of time for you and your H as I think he is confused but you got to keep remembering, he, and OW, are having an affair with all the lies, deceit and manipulation that entails.
Here's another q...Cutter might have good insight but anyone please answer as well...should I involve him in the purchasing part of the wii? I mean let him know I am going to get one and ask for suggestions on good places to look?
IMO just get the WII and don't include him in any of it. It's for you not for him. Get the games you want to get for YOU and try and get him to play them (once you get good enough to challenge him).
ditto
Did you check up to see if the hiways matched his excuse. Or just left it at that?
So any ideas on attacking the GIVER???
I noticed that ladybug is starting to vamp up her assualt on me. She is going at her family for contacting me still. She is going to start coming around on Sat. Nights with a group of friends I hang out with. And she is going to come at me sitting pritty in the house.
Unfortantly Being a giver does not mean I am a doormatt. So I have learned to standup for myself.
Has your Husband learned to stand up for himself?
What would happen if you attacked his time with you two ?
Actually, I never doubted that he was telling the truth in this case because the gridlock was all over the news and yes, the highway was shut down. But it does sound like he called a second time b/c he was feeling guilty...right on, P!
Cutter, I think I misunderstood about "attacking the giver!" I was thinking you meant come up with ideas to get the Giver's (WH) attention.
Do you mean that ladybug is attacking you to get you to respond to her? I am catching up on threads so yours is next!
I did spend less time with him today. My new goal is to be more distant and mysterious. He came over about 7:30, stayed til 3:30.
From 8-9 I worked out (no time with WH)
9-9:30 cooked breakfast for myself (did not offer but thought about it...thought maybe because I have been cooking dinner that I should do a 180 and not cook him b-fast??? but he will be here again tomorrow so I can offer then? opinions please!)
I ate b-fast by myself in the kitchen
9:30-10:30 got ready (no time with WH)and looked good
10:30 told WH I was going out and would be back about 2 or so--I did not tell him what I was doing
11:00 attempted to watch a movie "It's Complicated" but the projector broke! So they gave us a rain check!
I went to a bookstore instead, and picked up a new cookbook. Then picked up food and beer for New Year's Eve party.
(I decided to go to my friend's place after all even though it might be a pain in the butt bringing my baby!)
1:45 arrived home.
When I arrived home, WH seemed happy to see me...
1:45-2:30 I put away groceries, cleaned up, then sat in living room looking up wii on the internet while WH was playing with S.
2:30-3:30 WH installed new car seat and synched my cell phone with the GPS so I can use it as speakerphone (I asked him to help me with this earlier)
So I managed to only hang out kinda with WH between 7:30-8 and 1:45-2:30...but was busy doing stuff with chit chat interspersed.
Good things: WH offered to let me drive his car in the slush because my car has tires that spin out when it is wet outside.
I didn't need to but he offered.
He also did small things like transferred laundry into the drier, loaded dishwasher, replaced toilet paper, and organized baby food (acts of service!)
Bad things: he didn't pick up starbucks-- for either of us!
and I didn't get to watch my movie!!!
Oh and I never bossed WH around or anything. He did used to wait too long before telling me if he had an issue with something. I never saw him as a pushover. But he did do so much that he forgot to leave room for me to do something.
I resented all the giving! I mean he could have toned it down a notch and he could have not been so perfect at it all..."perfect" is very intimidating.
I love taking care of S because S needs me and he "lets" me (LOL). So all you givers out there...if you leave some things for the takers (but tell them), you will turn the takers into givers ot ay least they would give more than before!
Oh and I never bossed WH around or anything. He did used to wait too long before telling me if he had an issue with something. I never saw him as a pushover. But he did do so much that he forgot to leave room for me to do something.
I resented all the giving! I mean he could have toned it down a notch and he could have not been so perfect at it all..."perfect" is very intimidating.
I love taking care of S because S needs me and he "lets" me (LOL). So all you givers out there...if you leave some things for the takers (but tell them), you will turn the takers into givers ot ay least they would give more than before!
Interesting.
I noticed though that us givers do test the taker. When we first reach out and say hey. This is becoming unbalanced. We drop something that is semi important. Could be vacuuming or cleaning the bathroom or watching some show with you. We wait to see if it gets picked up. And when it does not. We shell and pick up the slack. Then if we notice you drop something. Well we give. So we take it over. This becomes a race as well. And we just keep shelling and giving and we see no way out. We forgot the word NO. Then we get to the point where we give up.
I went into Depression. And stopping giving. Yours walked away.
So how do we attack a giver.
Attack his nature. Treat him as a dog. Positive reinforcement for doing what he is told to do. The trick is to not make him realize you told him to do the task.
Let him think he did something to see if you would notice.
Got to be very minute. Something where the reply back from you is just a smile and thankyou.
Can you think of anything that you could take over that he is doing ? Then drop it. Wait. Pick it up again. Wait. Drop it wait longer.
Can you think of anything that you could take over that he is doing ? Then drop it. Wait. Pick it up again. Wait. Drop it wait longer.
Don't want to hijack this thread newmama. But my W is a giver.
I want to know how you intend to do this while in NC cutter, or is this just for newmama?
Thanks, Cutter! Notice I said "TELL" the taker you want help with something, don't just drop it (at first!) I mean I don't think you should have to always tell the taker. Just at first.
Example:
Giver: Honey, it seems like I am the one who does the dishes/ plans the outings/pays the bills/picks up gifts (etc.)
It would mean a lot to me if you could do ___more.
Taker:Well you always beat me to it! or I thought you LIKED doing those things so I just let you! or But you criticize me when I do it wrong!
Giver: I can back off a little. If you start to do it, then I will not criticize the way you do it.
Taker: Ok you got yourself a deal! Today I will do____
ANd then, Giver, you MUST praise Taker for doing those things--please do not crticize or re-do the task that the Taker did (if you are a controlling perfectionistic Giver). Please accept that there is more than one way to do something and if the Taker forgot to clean the sink, who cares. When you do it the next time, your example will stand out because the Taker will notice the way you do it versus how s/he does it. I don't know if that makes sense.
????What do you think?
Cutter, here's the thing: I live here with S now. SO I do everything now (which is fine). WH is still taking out the garbage or does yard work. That's it. So when he starts to do the small stuff like I mentioned, I think those are acts of service.
I also think he wants to do the garbage and yard work because it makes him feel good to help me. So I don't know if I should take it away from him. Could I be right?
Can you think of anything that you could take over that he is doing ? Then drop it. Wait. Pick it up again. Wait. Drop it wait longer.
Don't want to hijack this thread newmama. But my W is a giver.
I want to know how you intend to do this while in NC cutter, or is this just for newmama?
P my wife is a taker.
I attacked this with some assumptions and logic.
0. She is very independent and enjoys her free time. ( I did the house work and cooked )
1. Her OM is a SVP. His wife stated she sacrificed her career for his. This sounds like a taker.
2. My wife became a cake eating queen. She got 100% giving from me and she got the fantasy side of the affair.
3. I exposed very quickly to her family and let the truth do the work.
4. I waited until she got to the point where she felt she could do anything. Life was perfect. She was in control of everything. Could do anything.
5. I dropped the rope. Kicked her out. 100% giving went to zero. In one day.
Now. Fantasy ends. She is in reality.
She no longer controlls her life. He is married with kids. He is her boss. He is used to having someone take care of the house. She thinks she has skipped 3 or 4 steps in life and is now living the high life. She is not getting a 100% giver. So she is going to compensate by spending money and going at life like she is a queen bee.
Now some additional assumptions and logic.
1. Whats that I cannot stay in this fancy rental house when your kids come over.
2. For this to become legit at work you want me to quit my job and get another or stay at home.
3. I want a baby Mr. 47 year old SVP. A baby.
4. I go from being the price to the pauper on weekends. Gotta leave the mansion for the shack. Back to the same bed I was in 14 years ago when I met cutter. But now its a computer room.
5. Some one has to become the giver in this new relationship. I got no Plan B. Cutter is gone. He acts like I do not exist.
6. But I enjoyed free reign. I could go out with my friends when ever. Play sports when ever. Work late hours and when I got home I knew there was a dinner waiting for me at the table. A smile and a chance to unwind. Decompress. Now. I have to cook or get him to cook. We talk about work after work. Its 100% work work work. And when its not work. Am I doing a good job? He could go back to his family. She said she would work on the marriage. He is still in contact with her. I am not in contact with cutter at all.
7. What is he doing when I am away 3 days a week. This is all cutters fault. My family does not like adultery. Nor do many of my friends. ( I would assume the other side is like this as well ) Cutter is playing the victim here. Do they not realize its all his fault I am unhappy. I am going to tell this to OM and talk about how horrible cutter is ignoring me. I know I could contact the IM as he said. But damn that. Is he there. How he talks to my family. Its my family not his.
8. I think I am losing control of my life. I must smother OP or I am going to lose everything. The chase is on.
Anyways
Thats my guess. And how I attacked a Taker. Make them the giver.
Let them destroy the affair from within. While I put pressure on the outside.
Its a long game. One hopes I notice the cracks.
Spite = cracks. ( If things are good she has no reason to hate. )
OHHH....I get what you mean now!
So I can attack WH by giving back to him so much that OW cannot possibly compete other than with sex.
Give: wifely duties, nice and calm and steady demeanor, getting more attractive every week with weight loss, learning new things, interesting topics of conversation, appreciative, and soon to be a wii owner!
her: moody! nags at him to D! uses sex to keep his attention! doesn't do self improvement because she doesn't have to change who shge is!immature! they have work in common, play video games, and knock boots.
Bingo. But Newmama. You gotta do these things for yourself. The rest occurs natually. And if H does not notice this. Then someone else will. If you ever decide to go down that path.
Take away his acts of service. U need to learn to do these things if your become fully seperate anyways.
Plan A. I think your beginning to truly understand this. And if you ever drop the rope....
All that WH does now is take out the trash (well, except for the &^% dumpster he is "living with"--oh was that too mean?)and yard work.
I can totally learn how to take out the trash! As for the yard work, yeah, I have never been good at that. Guess it would be good to learn. I don't want a house if I end up D; too much to take care of by myself. An apartment would be just fine and if I ever met someone special, I would look into a house then.
2010--new possibilities! I look at the new year like this: 2009 was almost rock bottom (except for the birth of my son) so what goes down must come up.
I ended up going down to my friend's house but I was right...it was hard on S. He woke up countless times between 8-6 a.m. The party wasn't that fun. It WAS good to see my friends though.
It was WEIRD to be at the same place that last year was where I learned of the A. Still, I felt a lot better this year than last year. It's like if last year was 0, this year was 6. So, it is better.
Luckily only one of my couple friends made out when the bell dropped. There was another single mom there with 2 kids; one was 4 months old! She was seeking a divorce because her controlling H regularly volunteered deployment duty and neglected the family. She said she doesn't love him anymore. They lived in Hawaii; he doesn't sound too interested in sticking around to be the kids' dad.
So I was luckily so busy taking care of S that I didn't have time to feel sorry for myself. And I don't think I thought about what WH was doing at all until the next day!
Then instead of going home yesterday, S and I stayed at my friend's house for one more night. He was in a surprising good mood and was happy all day yesterday, playing with my friend's kids (or they played with him) and I got to play Super Mario Brothers on the Wii...very fun! Also played Mario Party, too!
IN FACT, my friend's H hopped onto craiglist and found a used a wii with accessories and games for a great deal! SO I ended up getting it. Man, WH would never purchase something the same day he saw it, so it did feel a little "free" but also scary to make the decision to buy it. And it's used! But my friend's H immediately plugged it in and tested it out. It was fine! Today I will pick up Super Mario Brothers and then start practicing.
Over the next month I'll acquire wii fit plus and the step bench but I do have the elliptical for now....
As I keep doing searches on the internet for good deals on some accessories it makes me think of WH and miss his involvement, friendship, help...he is the first person I used to tell everything to, the first person I asked for advice and the ONLY person I USED to trust! Now who do I trust? Just myself I guess.
It came with 2 numchucks, a steering wheel, and a charging station but only one controller. So I need a memory card and another controller eventually. When I pick up the game today, I will get a memory card.
Ideally, I can practice playing this game and hide the wii from WH until I get pretty good at it. Or maybe until I get the wii
fit plus? Don't know. But I DO KNOW that I am excited to start playing the game! It truly is not something that I am doing just to show WH I can change, but that was the original motivating factor. Now I just want to get good at it and add it to my list of NEW hobbies!
The wii came with 10 other games, too, so I do have some others to play besides Super Mario!
All in all, my New Year's Eve was definitely NOT sad, but it wasn't amazing or anything. I have gotten through another holiday! Wow, my patience is pretty good I must say.
Oh and WH must have learned from the Christmas text to not bother to wish me Happy New Year! I was so relieved that he just said to let him know when we got home and to have a good night! Relieved because I didn't want to deal with having to avoid wishing him a Happy D Day/ New Year (surely he remembers what happened this time last year!) He did help me get packed up on New Year's Eve before I hit the road to go to my friend's house. I can't remember much of what happened on NYE with him at the house, other than I was busy a lot and he found MORE little things to take care of (There is no way I could possibly prevent him from doing the little things!!!)
Hey newmama, just checkin in on ya! Hope you had a great holiday!
Hugs newmama. You made it through that tough day. I said a thank you to you at midnight. Just incase your ears were burning some time that night. What day was your baby born on ?
I think your H does those little things to off-set guilt. Can still be the provider in some messed up kind of way.
How long do you plan on keeping this life going ? Can you keep the resentment at bay? I know your a strong woman newmama. I am wondering, just because of what you said a few days ago about dropping the rope. Are you still considering this , and what exactly brought you to those thoughts then? Was it because a year was coming up?
Keep on growing. Stay strong.
As I keep doing searches on the internet for good deals on some accessories it makes me think of WH and miss his involvement, friendship, help...he is the first person I used to tell everything to, the first person I asked for advice and the ONLY person I USED to trust! Now who do I trust? Just myself I guess.
This has been hard for me. Yep, just trust yourself.
You sound so great. Happy for you. You sound very strong and determined.
You go girl!!
Cutter,
Thank you for thinking of me at midnight! Maybe that is what I felt around 9 p.m.? (PST):-) Truthfully, I thought of you, P, DBD and bestrong as well, wondering how we all will be doing when we ring in 2011! Maybe that is why I didn't get too sad?
About dropping the rope--I guess like everyone else here, I have ups and downs. I knew that I needed to change something but couldn't decide what. So I think that my goals of being more mysterious and pulling back by being busy/distant are good ones for right now. I think that some contact is good so that he can see my changes. Let's face it, all of us want our spouses back or we wouldn't be on this forum. I have never said I wasn't trying to pull him back! :-)
About "keeping this up," I decided that until I see a deadline, who cares? Seriously what is the rush? I have a 6 month old baby boy and am staying home from work until August.
If I went "no contact" here is what would happen:
WH would take S to OW 6 days per week, since that is how often WH sees S during his first year of life.
Both of us would be given a serious dose of divorced parent lifestyle.
So I do not see how my life will be better? And I would only want NC to bring him back quicker but in my sitch I just don't think it would work.
Might as well work on GAL and keep up the self improvements so they become ingrained habits. (need to work on yard work this spring--new self improvement area!)
Yes, I want him back. But if he doesn't come back, I have no regrets!
Oh and my baby boy was born July 6.
Thanks newmama. I was confused and had to ask the question.
As your posts have been conflicting.
Good month to be born.
Oops I realized I used the wrong saying...not what goes down must come up! That goes against the law of physics! Am a little sleep deprived. Once you hit rock bottom the only way out is UP!
And sorry if my posts are conflicting...but I guess it reflects my true state of mind! :-) Honestly, I really am focusing on being mysterious and GALing for the next month. So, I will be going out, and playing my wii as new GAL, and continue to clean, exercise and cook new dishes. As for being mysterious/distant, I will be accountable by documenting my actions here on DB forum! Like tomorrow, WH will come over 11-4. I plan to be gone or busy for at least 4/5 hours! Exercise, getting ready and grocery shopping usually take up 3 hours. I can be distant by doing chores around the house without talking to WH.
Well, I just added another event to my schedule! There is a get together at a country-western bar (not my thing usually) with the single parents group. My SIL can babysit again. I'm not sure if I need to let WH know that she is, since it will be Saturday night and that is not his usual visiting schedule. Going out again is part of GAL. If he doesn't know I am going out then how will he know I am being mysterious? How do I handle this?
Going out again is part of GAL. If he doesn't know I am going out then how will he know I am being mysterious? How do I handle this?
You are going out for yourself and not for him to notice that. He will find out by your attitude or maybe someone he knows might mention it to him... either way, it won't be a true GAL if you are doing it for him to notice instead of for yourself! You'll be mysterious by not mentioning it and he'll notice a change in your attitude. You'll have confidence from seeing how other men react to you, happiness from having fun, joy from feeling in control of your life.
You are doing great with your plans! Keep it up!!
Going out again is part of GAL. If he doesn't know I am going out then how will he know I am being mysterious? How do I handle this?
You are going out for yourself and not for him to notice that. He will find out by your attitude or maybe someone he knows might mention it to him... either way, it won't be a true GAL if you are doing it for him to notice instead of for yourself! You'll be mysterious by not mentioning it and he'll notice a change in your attitude. You'll have confidence from seeing how other men react to you, happiness from having fun, joy from feeling in control of your life.
You are doing great with your plans! Keep it up!!
I know this is hard to get through, I keep thinking things like you do too but the advice written her is right!
first SIL does not need to even know just where you are going but, if you told her thats all anyone else needs to know..
you dont need to be overly secretive (that wont look good) just carry on with GALing if she asks I would mention just as much info as she needs to know with out a step by step play.
Thanks DBD and WL! I will follow your advice and not tell SIL, just say I went to a get together and had fun! She may not even press for details.
So far today I have only interacted with WH for about 10 minutes...just finished working out!
I managed to only communicate with WH for 30 minutes top out of 5 hours! Yippee!
There is a belly dancing class available on Thurs nights so I will be joining it. WH knows my Thurs nights are my "late night" so I don't even need to let him know what I'll be doing.
Another GAL addition, and I'll be coming home all sweaty, heh heh!
Oh that is so awesome Newmama! Please post lots of details! I am soooo addicted to your updates! P17, Cutter and others give such great advice, it helps me learn, too!
Thanks for this thread!
Ravenly, S is sleeping so I can share details about WH today...
He arrived a little early. I hid my wii before he got here!
I quickly got to work at working out. Before I left for the store, I checked on S. WH had set up a good tummy time activity and I complimented him on it. I held S for a few minutes. WH said "oh no, now S will smell all perfumy!" He was teasing.
OK this is not distant or mysterious behavior, BUT
WH also brought up the hamburger place he was telling me about a couple of weeks ago. He said it sounded really good today and maybe we all need to take a road trip. I told him that unfortunately I just ate, but maybe we could check it out on Wed (his day off). He lit up and said that sounded good. Then he went on to ask how we will take S; use the portable highchair or just hold him?
He also did some small things for me again...I did not ask and couldn't predict them! One was breaking down the portable packnplay that was in my room. I'm not using it anymore. He said he didn't know if I would be using it but he could always set it up again if I needed it! Now I am half convinced he will ask to use it to take S one night overnight each week. I expect him to bring that issue up any time but I will just calmly say "ok. Fri nights sound okay?" (Fri night=I can at least go out and he has been taking him Sat mornings anyway)
I saw him look at my body a few times throughout the day...I am down 38 pounds so far so I guess he can tell!
Despite the conversation I described, seriously it only added up to maybe 30 minutes!
I plan to think of interesting topics to discuss and some q's to ask while we eat lunch on Wed. One thing I know for sure is that OW is not that great at conversing. Sure, he is more interested in sex right now but I did woo him at one point and conversing was something I did well. Now even though we are going to lunch, it will take up 60 minutes top out of a7-8 hour visit so I promise to be busy the rest of the time!!
careful newmama. careful. Take it slowly and do not over analyze anything. Keep that as-if attitude going. Toss in a crumb everyonce in awhile. But do not accept crumbs.
I say this for you girl.
But keep it going. Sounds like your picnic may have a guest drop by for a few minutes.
Thank you, Cutter! I honestly am not reading into the hamburger outing as anything other than lunch and will just be sure to be a fun companion is all! Seriously, there have been too many little surprises that I have read into and nothing has happened. So I am honestly not making anymore expectations and will do as DB coach says which is to take the event at face value: lunch at a place with WH. Enjoy myself and that is all there is to think of it! (well, making a good impression)
Tonight...I will be making a new Mexican dinner with tomatillos. It should take 45 minutes to make, so I will start it after I work out, then clean up right away after eating. Then I will only have to be with WH for maybe 20-30 minutes out of 2.5 hours.
I tried to figure out a way to reduce the contact time to 10 minutes but ran into a problem eating first then working out--got a stomach ache and I was still exercising when S was trying to go to sleep.
I can at least be busy on the internet or something while he is here. And 20-30 minutes of contact isn't that bad I don't think. My goal is to be distant and mysterious. I repeat this to myself when he's here and it helps me stick to it!!
Tonight's update...
I planned a rather complicated but authentic Mexican recipe for dinner. It took a looong time to make!
WH arrived and I made a big deal about "Daddy's here!" with S. I filled him in on S's day and got to work in the kitchen. Now, I didn't get a chance to freshen up before he arrived, but I had the same make up and hair from the morning that I had done and was wearing my contacts which has become a usual thing. I think it's okay to not look FABULOUS every time because it is more realistic. Come on, I was not going anywhere special! I can look good to show off my assets, but if I dress to the 9's every day it will not make that big of an impact after awhile IMO. I can at least look cute which I think I did. Quepiche?
He fed S and I didn't say much to him at all other than to ask his advice about some spices. He hung out with S and gave him a bath. About 90 minutes from the start of my cooking (no joke) dinner was ready. We ate while S was in his swing. WH said it was really yummy! I made some small talk about baby stuff but avoided anything that interesting or meaningful.
After dinner I cleaned up while he gave S a bottle and rocked him to sleep. WHen I arrived in the living room, I hopped on the laptop and surfed the internet a bit. WH fell asleep!! He woke up around 8:15 and he usually is gone by 8:00! So I didn't dare wake him (hee hee!) and he put S to bed. He ended up leaving about 8:30. I also didn't work out but am not that concerned because I will totally do it tomorrow.
Before he left, he said he would be checking in on S tomorrow and would see us after work (DUH to both!) and to have a good night. I wished HIM a good night too. (meaning I never wish him and OW a good night--I just think that I want to make sure he drives there okay and nothing happens to him over the night!)
Nothing that interesting happened but I managed to keep my goal of being distant and interacting maybe 30 minutes max!
Newmama. I am a guy. If your in a barrow or a sack. Us men are going to find you sexy. Remember you have wired his brain to think your sexy. No matter what is going on. It stays there. Forever. You did the work when we wanted to date you. And you said. YES.
Trust me on this one.
P.S. Post the dinner... I want to make it as well.
I think that you should think about cutting out a night a week.
And track it. See what happens.
Is baby long enough to start those todder swimming lessons.
The baby can start swim lessons whenever! Why do you ask?
And I can cut out dinner on Thursdays...So I am down to 2 nights per week. I just want to keep it up to show him that this is a permanent change, not a phase. All of my improvements are permanent! And they really are. I like being tidy and cooking is fun! I enjoy looking my best even if it takes longer each day. And the exercise has been a part of my life for the last 4 years or so so that is sticking around!
How long have you been with these 180s? I think you are proving that these changes are permanent! So proud of you newmama! You are doing such a great job!
well I started somewhere in the beg-mid of October. So not quite 3 months yet. The change in appearance has been in place for about a month. I know it seems like an eternity on here, but 3 months is not that long IMO to prove permanent changes. Probably 6 months minimum.??? thank you for the encouragement. It is such a weird position to be in, but it is my choice and I accept full responsibility!
Are you not still worried about the cake eating?
From what I can see he is noticing things but nothing is actually changing at all. I agree that three months isn't long but I'm impatient
I know you gave a deadline before for NC, is this still your plan?
The baby can start swim lessons whenever! Why do you ask?
New newmama. GAL with her child. Swimming lessons in the pool. Life moment that H is missing out on. Is not apart of. Had no decision in making. He sees another lost act of service, quality time.
You decided this. You are going out with your child and getting some exerice. Starting a new hobby. And at the same time meeting new people, new mothers and fathers. A new circle of friends.
Now this one you are going to talk about around H. But wait until you have started. Then its Baby and I , Baby and I.
Well my suggestion.
Plus I think you will have fun. And you also get to shop for a new bathing suit. One that looks real nice on newmama.
Life is full of pleasaures. And I think that this could be one of them.
I agree with cutter. Excellent suggestion!!
Cutter, I am one step ahead! I have been taking S to classes since September. We are taking a music class and baby sign class this month. Next month will be music and gym. In April, we start swim classes! (April b/c he will be 9 months plus I will have lost 20+more pounds!
We currently are in a mommy-baby group too. So I have been meeting new moms since September and it's great! We visit with family 1 day per week as well.
And so believe me, WH hears "baby and I" all the time! But it pleases me to learn I'm already doing something you recommend!
P, yes I thought at one time I would go NC this month. But I don't feel like letting OW see S 6 days per week!!! I am so sorry to go back and forth b/c at one point I said I wasn't bothered anymore by OW seeing S when he takes him, but I was wrong.
As for cake eating, yep, and I will be holding out for awhile.WITH heavy emphasis on being distant and mysterious.I have done well for 2 days so far...it's a start and as long as I am consistent, it is successful for me and I can monitor results.
I know it seems like not much has changed, but I have changed! And DB coach said changes in WH would be slow but he will notice. And he has noticed a couple of my changes so far plus he has not filed for D. It has been 2 months since I told him I didn't want one; almost 3 since he brought it up!
I am cutting one night of dinner out though and not telling WH about my plans so I do follow y'all's advice! Keep suggesting! I appreciate and care for you all so much!!!
oh--here's the recipe I made:
Arroz Verde (green rice)
1 tbspn butter
1.5 cups white rice
3/4 cups chopped cilantro
10 green onions,sliced
2 serrano peppers, diced
salt
2 3/4 c water
Saute rice and butter until rice is transluscent. In separate bowl or blender, puree the other ingredients together. Add to the rice. Bring to a boil, then cover and simmer 15-18 minute.
Chipotle chicken
2-4 chicken breasts
4 cups chicken stock
1 med onion, chopped
2 chipotle peppers or use a few teaspoons of chipotle chili flakes
2 cloves of garlic, sliced
1 pound tomatillos
3/4 cup cilantro, chopped
salt as needed
Put chicken breasts in deep frying pan or dutch oven. Cover with stock, onion, chipotle chilis, garlic. Bring to a boil and cover pot and simmer for 15-20 minutes (until chicken is cooked)
Remove chicken to cool. Add tomatillos to the stock and cook over med heat until they turn soft and yellowish. Remove the tomatillos and blend with cilantro. Add back to the stock
Cut up the chicken into bite sized chunks and add to the stock.
Reduce the stock down to thick sauce by cooking it over med-high heat.
Serve with guacamole or avocado slices, sour cream, and steamed corn tortillas. (and the rice) YUMMMMMMMY!!
They say the way to a man's heart is through his stomach... well, if you are always making recipes like this, who wouldn't always arrive at meal time?
I'm drooling over this recipe. Gotta try it this week. YUM! Thanks for sharing!
DBD You are so nice! How are you able to stay so positive with a big baby of an H??? ;-)And I might add that tonight's meal is
Indian.(ish)
Tandoori Chicken with lentil salad and sweet potato-garbanzo cakes. I want to make Naan but next time. It's a little time consuming with S!
p.s. here is what we (WH cooked it) used to make:
burritos, hamburgers, spaghetti, various salads, stir fry, or WH would make homemade pizza dough for calzones. So you see, I really didn't have much experience cooking.
Oh cut it out!! I'm going to show up for dinner! You ought to start a blog like in the movie Julie and Julia posting those recipes.
I'd love to try them myself. Yummy!
I loooooved that movie! But why start a new blog when I can just post here? hee hee!
who does not cook like this... I cook all the time too. Best part of the day planning and making and eating dinner. ::))))))
Thats right ladies. I cook , clean and honour my vows...
Oh.. do share cutter...
Wow it sounds very healthy, too! Awesome find Newmama! I will definately try that one out! Please post your tandoori chicken recipe, too, if you do not mind! I have lots and lots of super healthy recipes I can post as well if you want!
newmama. i will start a thread in the off topic section tomorrow. Or maybe an off topic one in our area. And we can post our dinners to each other.
DBD... If you start it thats cool
I am sure P could use some of these
Hey, posting recipes in Off topic sounds like a good idea!
And I was not knocking those menu items that we used to make but when you do them week in and week out...it gets old!
BUt tonight's dinner was kind of bland...it was missing a sauce or something. The tandoori chicken and the chickpea cakes were really yummy and pretty easy to make! The lentil salad was not good.
One of my wishes for recipes in cookbooks is that I wish they would post good ideas for sides to go with main dishes (i.e. serve with ___)
Tonight's update: not much. Poor S has been sick so we texted a lot about it (necessary). WH arrived and noticed the mess in the kitchen, asking what was for dinner. When I told him he said it sounded fancy!
Then I worked out, cooked dinner, and warned WH that it might be a little odd and that the lentil salad was not good. He still tried everything (so not like the H I knew) and even put the lentil salad on top of the chicken which was on top of the chickpea cake. He suggested using this chili sauce we had for a sauce. It was all right. He said it was pretty good but didn't clean his plate! Still, I thought it was nice that he tried it all. And honestly, sometimes even the cook can admit the food wasn't that good.
So as we ate, The Daily Show was on and the topic was Tiger Woods! Yikes! So I tried to find something different to watch (pretending not to notice the subject matter) but there was nothing on! Luckily I went to our DVR and found a show that both of us liked and neither of us watched before.
Then I got up to clean and he rocked S to sleep, then when I returned, I surfed the net on my laptop and didn't interact much with WH. He put S to bed, came back downstairs and we discussed S's health a little bit longer. All in all, I still managed to only share the same room with him for 30 minutes max! Woo hoo!
Now tomorrow is his day off and we will be going to lunch at the hamburger place. My goal is to be distracted at least when he is here. Again, it is tough to fill 8 hours with tasks that keep me out of the house so I have to modify this a little.
So, he will arrive between 7:30-8. I will be on the internet or reading a book (my cook books?) or something.
8:30-10:30 will consist of working out and getting ready.
10:30-11 I can clean a little before we go
11-12 we will go to lunch
12-2 I will mop, then vacuum
2-3 I will go to the store
gotta run!
I make hot sauces... Maybe you need some
And Mr. Woods. i would have loved to watch that with ladybug. We watched nurse Jackie .....
What show was it ?
And tomorrow. Be happy. Enjoy the lunch.
P.S. you guys are crazy... Why does he have to come so early. I would tell him to bring the paper and coffee....
Take care. Good luck tomorrow. Be yourself. And enjoy a lunch. And any R talk from him. Change the topic.
He is not worth any talk while his is comitting adultry.
Always remember that.
He is not worth any talk while his is comitting adultry.
Always remember that.
Thanks for caring, Cutter! But don't worry--first of all I think there's a 0% chance we will be talking about our relationship during lunch or anytime tomorrow. Secondly, if/when he wants to "talk" about R, my first question would be "is it over between you and OW?"
The show was 30 Rock but we used to watch The Office, Mad Men, Sopranos (on DVD), Entourage, Eureka, and so many others. Yes, we sometimes went out on the weekends but not during the week.
Now for those hot sauces, post the recipe for one
!
And do you bake in addition to cook?
I just cook.
Tonight nothing fancy.
Just salad (greens, walnuts, dried cranberries )and some pan fried catfish.
The salad dressing I will make. Just some oil , lemon and basil
Do not bake. Never got into baking. But I may start baking pies...
Enjoy your day. I hope you have a good one.
oooooooooh cannot wait for tonite's update!
Okay, I will reply in sandwich of good-bad-good news.
Good: I managed to stay busy working out, etc. from about 8:45-11.
We left for lunch and I was myself (repeating these words from Cutter, thank you!!). WH paid for all of us. We had pleasant conversation about his mom and the place. He voluntarily told me that a male co-worker of his recommended the place. Apparently there is another franchise in the same town where the coworker and OW live. I realize that WH is good at lying, but he seemed convincing as he tried the food like it was the first time he tried it.
Then he wanted to go to the store to pick up some more ointment and pedialyte for S. So we had nice time shopping and puttin S in the cart for the first time!
When we returned, I got busy cleaning. As I stopped to take something out of the vacuum I noticed there was a LOT of my hair! I made comments like wow, there is enough for a baby doll and how it's unfortunate that my hair gets all over the place and if it was short it wouldn't have been a problem! He said Me and S like your long hair. I pretended to not notice but it was a compliment about my appearance which is what I was waiting for.
WH and S took a nap. I left to get an ice cream cone from DQ, returned and continued cleaning.WH observed that I vacuumed the stairs and said it looked really nice. I explained that I discovered a different attachment which made it a lot easier than what I tried before (he used to be the one to vacuum the stairs).
Bad: WH sat down about 15 minutes before he left and had the visitation schedule in front of him. He said he hadn't filled out the Saturdays yet. I asked why and he explained he wanted to see him longer on those days. Long story short (sorry Ravenly!) I stayed calm and we worked out 8-4.
BUT I accidentally said "Not this Saturday, though!" He asked me if I had plans and I said maybe (I was trying not to tell him!) He said I didn't have to tell him what I was doing. I backtracked and said that I just hadn't finalized the plans yet. (In our previous conversation I explained that some Saturdays I would want to take S with me to do stuff and he had said to lethim know and he would work with me).
So he might think S and I are going together somewhere. Damn!
THEN he said he knew I wasn't comfortable with the idea, but he wanted to start taking S overnights, like on Fridays and return him around 1 like it said in the parenting plan. He said it could happen 2-3 months from now if I needed more time to get used to the idea. I told him that I needed to take him to a baby shower on the 22 but we could start next Friday if he wanted. He said that the 29th would be fine to start.
Good: I am finding a MOnday night class to take, maybe Pilates. So I will be able to cut dinners to one night per week. The class doesn't start for a few weeks but I plan on lying and telling him tomorrow that I signed up and it starts on Monday.
I think it might be more realistic if I told him I was taking a class on Monday nights instead of abruptly telling him I will be going out every Monday night.
So what do you think?
Also, I toyed with the idea of telling him tomorrow that he could take S this Friday and the next, so that I could get used to it. ???? The problem is that S will have to spend a night at OW's for the first time, AND part of the night on Saturday at my SIL because I have plans on Saturday.
Please advise! Go ahead and give me 2x4s as needed! Or tell me I am doing something right. ARRRGGHH! At least he hasn't brought up D.
Ok, here is what I think.
I think it sounds like OW is starting to put pressure on him about D and spending much less time at your place. I think he probably told her "After the holidays" and that is why he is now bringing it up. This is both good and bad. Good in that OW is starting to show her true colors, become demanding and put her insecurities before him seeing his son. Bad in that he is obviously willing to do things to make her happy - still an emotional tie there. Obviously, this is ALL speculation on my part, but if I were to take a stab that is my take on it.
Newmama, I think you are doing awesome in how you are handling this. Unbelievably strong and so so so classy. Someday, he is really going to regret this - I just so hope it is sooner than later.
Thank you Ravenly, I think what you are saying makes sense. Now what about my Qs? Should I tell him that I'm taking a class on Mondays? Is that ok? Like I said, I think it would be too weird if I happened to need to leave EVERY Monday night. I want to be mysterious but then it does need to be believable. And should I tell him tomorrow that he can take S this Friday night?
thank you so much...I know I can still call my DB coach.
Are there any former walk away husbands who share insight? It seems like more men on this forum dealing with WAW. PDT and Sandi have WAW insights to share.
I would tell him you have a class, absolutely!
As far as letting him take S on Friday - well, that is entirely based on what *you* are comfy with. I know for me, I would drag that out as long as possible.
I also think it is time to start making this situation as uncomfortable as possible for him. I think he needs a dose of reality on what a divorced dad's life is truly like. Meaning, I would put down definite boundaries on S that you are 100% comfortable with. I am pretty sure the courts wait until baby (at least in Ohio and Michigan) is at least 1 year old before they allow overnights.
2x4 time, said with much caring and hope for your situation.
Right now, your WH has it soooooo very very very easy. You are making this a walk in the park for him. Granted, the changes are for you, and for him to *see*, but he is doing far more than just seeing the changes but benefiting from them directly.
You are right Ravenly. He has it easy.But if what you suggest about OW is true, and it does make a lot of sense, then if OW pressures him to D and so do I, then....?
Oh and In my state, overnights start at 6 months.
anyone else have comments?
I think you did well. Very strong newmama.
If your good with the overnight then your good. I will offer no recommendations on that as I would not want to influence you on such a personal matter that I have no experience with.
I think he pulled a carrot and stick on you.
Just iron out that schedule to one that you are comfortable with and do not budge on it. Only show stick on that right now. Loss of family is very important. It brings reality to his situation.
Newmama,
I think there is a very large grey area between giving him an easy ride into his actions/decisions and you pushing him for/into a divorce.
Remember your bakery analogy? I think that is so very fitting right now.
He has seen your changes. But not much has changed yet. He still trudging ahead, albeit slowly, into his fantasy future. I know how scary every step in a different, new direction must feel to you.
You are incredibly strong and resilient. And you are handling this with much grace and class - more so that I could.
been busy-had aunt over during day, then when WH came home, got dressed up and went out to see a movie "It's Complicated" (very good which surprised me,) had time to kill so I went to a bar and had 2 glasses of wine (pinot noir and pinot gris) and calanari. came back to enjoy a couple of hours alone but S woke up the second WH left. so no more time alone...but at least I got out for 4 hours!!!!!! told WH he needs to leave through garage from now on.am typing one handed with S sleeping on me.
no matter what happens I do not want to be alone and will find a man who loves kids, ideally it would be WH but life goes on...if WH files. I am typing one handed in the dark which is why I'm not responding to other threADS tonight.
one more thing- letting the rope go is complete waste of time to BSs unless we really are ready to file for D. and good for those almighty transcendental (is that a word?) BSs who do that without regrets. But come on--filing for D means waving the white flag and giving up. No mal intent for those BSs that choose this but GIVING UP/SURRENDERING is the same to me as DROPPING THE ROPE. No thank you yet.
here is the latest schedule:
Sat: WH has son 7-2
Sun: WH comes 11-4 (I work out.go to store)
Mon: WH 5:30-8 (I leave for pilates 5:45-7:45)
Tues: WH: 5:30-8 (I work out5:45-6:45/cook6:45-7:15/clean 7:45-8)
Wed: WH: 7:30-3:30 (I work out, go see movie, clean 6/8 hours)
Thurs: WH: 5:30-9:30ish (I leave 5:30-9:30)
Fri: WH doesn't come over (but starting 1/29 will take S overnight at 5:30-2 Saturday)
But come on--filing for D means waving the white flag and giving up. No mal intent for those BSs that choose this but GIVING UP/SURRENDERING is the same to me as DROPPING THE ROPE.
I guess it is surrendering. I see it as seeing the writing on the wall and realizing that WAH has broken the M to a point of no return. I don't want to wait for someone that doesn't care how much he disrespects me and shares himself with another person. Sorry, not trying to be a wet blanket. You are so optimistic newmama and your posts motivate me, but I don't have your patience. You are a saint.
Newmama, it's not often (or at all) that I disagree with you but I see your post below written from an emotional POV. Not the usual you. I also disagree with it 100%.
one more thing- letting the rope go is complete waste of time to BSs unless we really are ready to file for D.
I disagree entirely. I feel as if I've dropped the rope on the M, maybe not entirely on W (although dropping the rope for me means giving up caring about the WAS which in this case I think I have done - I'm not at indifference yet but at contempt at the moment). However I am no where near the D stage yet. That is going to take a lot longer for me to be able to process, accept and move on. So, I see dropping the rope as a stage in this whole process just as D is a stage (albeit the last one).
and good for those almighty transcendental (is that a word?) BSs who do that without regrets.
Do any LBS's file for D without regrets?
But come on--filing for D means waving the white flag and giving up. No mal intent for those BSs that choose this but GIVING UP/SURRENDERING is the same to me as DROPPING THE ROPE. No thank you yet.
Again I disagree entirely.
D is not about giving up. D is about recognising that you've deployed your troops the best way you can. Recognising that the battle can't be won and withdrawing to protect your troops. It's not about surrendering. Withdrawing allows you to protect yourself.
As I said above I don't see dropping the rope as the same as D.
I love my wife deeply (still unfortunately) but I want to drop the rope, for ME, not for her. D is a long way off if I can help it (although I am beginning to feel my hand is being forced)
I think you need a hug today NM.
So here ya go.
{{HUG}}
Sorry guys if I offended you! I was just thinking that dropping the rope is like being completely detached. The only way is to sever the relationship through a D!
Then, without meaning to offend, I said that filing for a D means "I give up" but I meant "I give up on sitting around waiting for you--I surrender! YOU WIN! You got your fantasy life with OP!" and I don't want to let WH win.
BUT filing for D as in "I give up!" means, too, that the BS is exhausted and wants to have closure and can file without regretting the decision to not be with someone who betrayed them.
Withdrawing the troops is a better analogy than surrendering. But tomato tomahto, surrendering means not fighting anymore.
So I promise to do a better job of editing before submitting next time!
Thanks for the hug, Cutter. Yep, even eternal optimists experience dark clouds once in awhile!
Today I took S to his dr. appt and met WH there. I looked good, smelled good. The dr. commented that usually moms wear a pony tail at this stage because the babies like to pull hair. I just said "half the time I do"
So after we went back to the car, WH buckled S into his car seat and lingered forever! I said "Okay, we'll see you in the morning!" and WH said "mommy's in a hurry!" and I said that it was just cold is all. Then someone's exhaust fumes started to filter into the car so I said "it's getting stinky in here...we better go!" and WH reluctantly said goodbye to S and told us to take it easy today and he would see us tomorrow.
I think it was good that I was ready to go, BUH BYE WH! and not eager to hang out chatting with him.
Sorry guys if I offended you! I was just thinking that dropping the rope is like being completely detached. The only way is to sever the relationship through a D!
So I promise to do a better job of editing before submitting next time!
No offense taken newmama!! Your opinion comes from your sitch and mine comes from my sitch.
I have been struggling with that same feeling of not "wanting WH to win" or OW to win, but now it feels like I'm only hurting myself by thinking that way. I am focusing on making myself happy instead. Living for me and my kids only wo WH.
You've got much more patience and determination and things are somewhat pleasant in your sitch. Your WH pays attention to you and you see him very often. OTOH, my sitch... nothing. Pure nastiness and disrespect.
Thanks for the hug, Cutter. Yep, even eternal optimists experience dark clouds once in awhile!
Today I took S to his dr. appt and met WH there. I looked good, smelled good. The dr. commented that usually moms wear a pony tail at this stage because the babies like to pull hair. I just said "half the time I do"
So after we went back to the car, WH buckled S into his car seat and lingered forever! I said "Okay, we'll see you in the morning!" and WH said "mommy's in a hurry!" and I said that it was just cold is all. Then someone's exhaust fumes started to filter into the car so I said "it's getting stinky in here...we better go!" and WH reluctantly said goodbye to S and told us to take it easy today and he would see us tomorrow.
I think it was good that I was ready to go, BUH BYE WH! and not eager to hang out chatting with him.
Way to go newmama- sounds like you are making good strides.
DBD, I think you have just as much patience right now dealing with your WH! I think you are showing him amazing constraint given the circumstances and patiently "collecting evidence" while you wait to file the order for financial payment. Grrrr!
surrendering means not fighting anymore.
I disagree again
Surrendering is saying to the other side you win. We give up. Here we give ourselves to you to do with as you please.
In D nobody wins. She won't win. I won't win.
Dropping the rope is saying, I love you but I can't fix you or our R anymore. I am working on me now and protecting me and my family. You have made your decision and you must play that out. I will make mine.
That's my take on it.
Oh, and I wasn't offended!
I think it was good that I was ready to go, BUH BYE WH! and not eager to hang out chatting with him.
End contact first ... always good!
Dropping the rope is saying, I love you but I can't fix you or our R anymore. I am working on me now and protecting me and my family. You have made your decision and you must play that out. I will make mine.
I think I can agree with that definition. Maybe D is "burning the rope?"
surrender:
v., -dered, -der·ing, -ders.
v.tr.
To relinquish possession or control of to another because of demand or compulsion.
To give up in favor of another.
To give up or give back (something that has been granted): surrender a contractual right.
To give up or abandon: surrender all hope.
To give over or resign (oneself) to something, as to an emotion: surrendered himself to grief.
Law. To restore (an estate, for example), especially to give up (a lease) before expiration of the term.
v.intr.
To give oneself up, as to an enemy.
I do see "give" as the common verb in all of these definitions of surrender. If you "drop" the rope, you are "giving" WS ALL of the rope.
To give up or abandon: surrender all hope.
I see this definition fitting "surrender" in the way that I meant it. To acknowledge that you love the WS but choose to not work on the relationship and instead work on yourself means abandoning the work on the relationship.BUT it is temporarily abandoning it if you don't D!
Hi Newmama!
I hope I didn't offend you at all or make you think it is time to drop the rope or D. Not at all! I just felt that based on the most recent actions by WH, it is time to change strategies a bit. But, like p17 said, it is from my own perspective based on my experiences in relationships.
To be honest, from your descriptions of OW and WH, I cannot believe they are a good match. He seems to like the finer things in life and have very particular taste in things - kind of a classy guy. OW, on the other, I picture kinda vulgar, slutty and not classy at all. I could be wrong completely, but that is just the picture you've painted in my head from your postings. It seems a relationship based on not much more than lust (Sorry but roller coasters and video games don't guarantee long-term stability and committment) and from a compatibility standpoint it seems you would be a better fit for him. This is where I glean hope for your sitch.
Hey Newmama -
I see you converse w/my friend, Cutter, so I thought I'd come check out your thread! You have a BABY! Awwwww!!! I love babies!
I liked the story about the Dr. I remember, when my kids were little, I was always "done" when I went out, because I was just thrilled to be out of the house!!! I'd have on the dressy jeans, high heeled boots, nice jacket, etc... to get their picture taken! LoL However, I'm just as likely to have a pony tail and baseball cap, as well.
Your night the other night sounded fun, too! I want to see It's Complicated... And, I'm a HUGE Pinot Noir fan! And, calamari!!!
Anyways, I'll catch up on the rest of your thread, but I wanted to say hi!
Hi, ravenly! I meant to respond to your comments!
I think he needs a dose of reality on what a divorced dad's life is truly like. Meaning, I would put down definite boundaries on S that you are 100% comfortable with.
I was not offended--just was questioning how to give him the reality of a divorced dad without creating the impression that I am ready for D! I mean if I said "well, the parenting plan also states you see him 2 weeknights, 1 overnight, and every other Sunday" it seems to me that the discussion would lead into divorce.
2x4 time, said with much caring and hope for your situation.
Right now, your WH has it soooooo very very very easy. You are making this a walk in the park for him. Granted, the changes are for you, and for him to *see*, but he is doing far more than just seeing the changes but benefiting from them directly.
I was wondering how else he was benefitting other than dinner?
I think there is a very large grey area between giving him an easy ride into his actions/decisions and you pushing him for/into a divorce.
Remember your bakery analogy? I think that is so very fitting right now.
yes, I do think it's time to remove favorite pastries from the bakery but I also admitted I wasn't ready for NC because OW would get to see S more than one day per week.
So my distance/mystery strategy is in effect; actually Monday will be the first Monday that I leave.
And please be assured that I am not comfortable with my sitch, but am willing to sacrifice adjustments to the visitation schedule for the sake of the bigger goal (ala my DB coach's advice)
So I don't mean to be defensive; am trying to explain my actions and question the advice but am implementing many of y'all's suggestions!Please keep encouraging or disagreeing with me because it helps me to analyze my decisions and I really do appreciate everyone's support!!!
I was thinking of your parenting schedule today. And a thought occurred to me. Now, I may get flamed for this but I will be a little crazy tonite and put it out there anyway.
The one thing we know for 100% certain about WH is that he is absolutely crazy about his S. Which is great. We also can probably assume that it frustrates OW that he wants to spend so much time over at your place - no doubt because of her own insecurity and loss of control over WH. This is of her doing for deciding to be a homewrecker, and she also needs to accept the consequences and it sounds like she doesn't want to.
If it were me, I would delay the overnights/long Saturdays for as long as possible. WH can come over to your place to visit S as often as he likes. Why? Because I think it will really create an issue for WH and OW. I personally think that she is probably pressuring him about this, and putting WH in a bad spot. Eventually, this should blow up between them if he is giving her promises of things like more time at her place with S and then it doesn't happen.
I am sure even if he is as happy as a clam with OW, while he is there with her his mind probably continually wanders over to how S (and you) are doing. OW probably senses this (And may even get annoyed by it). Allowing S to go over there often may result in less of that and normalize the situation which isn't good for you.
He seems to like the finer things in life and have very particular taste in things - kind of a classy guy. OW, on the other, I picture kinda vulgar, slutty and not classy at all. I could be wrong completely, but that is just the picture you've painted in my head from your postings. It seems a relationship based on not much more than lust (Sorry but roller coasters and video games don't guarantee long-term stability and committment) and from a compatibility standpoint it seems you would be a better fit for him. This is where I glean hope for your sitch.
Thank you!! Now when will he realize this?
I really am trying to paint a true picture of OW and WH--I should admit that OW is "nice" (relatively) but the rest is true, I promise!! oh--they both like control and they both keep track of expenses--can't think of the verb but it entails entering in every receipt and budgeting. So those two things in common added to video games and sex mean they are SOUL MATES right???lol
Hey just double checking that you know I wrote a little on the parenting schedule above where you wrote...Don't know why I get paranoid of such things but I do!
Hi, Mindfull! Thanks for checking out my thread. Cutter is a good friend for us to have isn't he? He is also NC king, too!
Ravenly, I think we posted at the same time so I didn't see your comment about the parenting schedule earlier! I am going to respond after S is asleep!
If it were me, I would delay the overnights/long Saturdays for as long as possible.
I see your point. The problem is that I tried in November to delay him taking him at all by saying I would like more time before he started. The result was him insisting on it 3 days in a row, then bringing up "documenting" the visitation and then saying we need to review the parenting plan...I think he was coached by OW. Of course I replied that he has had every opportunity to see S and I never ever prevented him or tried to stop him from leaving the house.
SO after that happened, I called my DB coach who encouraged me to not resist...that conflict with WH and I = GOOD for OW. He said think of my long term goal AND that not resisting is actually 180 behavior.
The overnight visit is Friday night 6 to Saturday morning at 12. S goes to sleep between 7:30-8 p.m., wakes up at 4 or 4:30 a.m. for a bottle, then goes back to sleep until 6:30-7. WH will be driving 45 minutes or longer because of rush hour on Fridays, so there is a good chance the overnights will be overrated. And there's a barking dog and a noisy 3 year old there!
WH can come over to your place to visit S as often as he likes. Why? Because I think it will really create an issue for WH and OW.
Yes, I am totally in agreement with this which adds another reason for why I don't want to go NC! So as I posted earlier, WH is here a lot!He and OW will only be seeing S during waking hours for an additional 2-3 hours, tops.
I personally think that she is probably pressuring him about this, and putting WH in a bad spot. Eventually, this should blow up between them if he is giving her promises of things like more time at her place with S and then it doesn't happen.
See what I wrote above. Plus, if I protest too much, she (probably) says "See? You need to divorce so you can have your rights!!She's not letting you see your S!" or some crap like that. If he gets to do this without being divorced, she can't use it as ammo for getting him to D me. BUT IT ALSO LETS HIM STAY IN THE A LONGER.
[quote]I am sure even if he is as happy as a clam with OW, while he is there with her his mind probably continually wanders over to how S (and you) are doing. OW probably senses this (And may even get annoyed by it). Allowing S to go over there often may result in less of that and normalize the situation which isn't good for you. [quote]
True, that is why he is welcome to see S at our house as much as he wants. I suspect he knows that once he files for D, I will say "ok, time to follow the parenting plan for real, now, since that is the life YOU WANT." And he is right!!
Way less time for S...I know that sounds like I am punishing S, but at this stage in his life he now knows and loves his daddy, and he will get to see him more once I go back to work...the time between us starts to equalize the older he gets.
Hmm..I wonder if OW has seen the parenting plan and knows that he will see S less if we divorce but that means she will get WH more to herself???
outwit,outplay, outsmart...ha ha!
Hi, Mindfull! Thanks for checking out my thread. Cutter is a good friend for us to have isn't he? He is also NC king, too!
NC No more. I broke it this week. Sent off the seperation papers to be signed. Which will happen on the 24th. When ladybug and I sit down and sign them. Then she gets her stuff outta here.
So hugs..... and mindfull... so glad you could stop by and say hi to newmama. She is great.
outwit,outplay, outsmart...ha ha!
Tis a tough game. Balancing what is right with tough love.
Do you ever draw up the plan ?
Hi, Cutter,
I think breaking NC this week was necessary for you because of the insistence of ladybug. I bet you will go back to NC after and until the 24th, right? (((Cutter)))
As for drawing up the plan, our parenting plan was originally created back in March, based on some prepared recommendations from the family law in my state. Each month, since August, WH creates a visitation schedule that I have input as well.
Is that what you mean by plan?
UH Oh, S has a fever and is feeling sick...probably from his immunizations. If he is not feeling better by 3 or 4, then I cannot in good conscience leave him with my SIL so I can go out!
Let's hope he has a rapid turn around. So for tonight... this time the location is a notorious pick up joint for divorcees. I feel a little intimidated. If S is fine, I will still make myself go but really I want to be able to hang out in a group of mostly women. A friend of mine said the place was really fun but women flocked to her husband, since there were more female divorcees than male. With that in mind, I bet I will be able to hang out with a group of ladies!
The reason why I am meeting up with this group is that it is for divorced OR separated parents. I want to make a new friend or 2, and have fun doing it is all.
Oh and my SIL's exH is moving back in! WH told me on Wednesday but I didn't elaborate with him b/c I don't want to invite conversation about our relationship. Still, I thought it was good that WH saw what happened there--the exH divorced SIL for an OW, moved in with her for about 9 months, realized he made a mistake and has been trying to get SIL back ever since!
Hi, Cutter,
I think breaking NC this week was necessary for you because of the insistence of ladybug. I bet you will go back to NC after and until the 24th, right? (((Cutter)))
As for drawing up the plan, our parenting plan was originally created back in March, based on some prepared recommendations from the family law in my state. Each month, since August, WH creates a visitation schedule that I have input as well.
Is that what you mean by plan?
Hi Newmama. yes. And thanks
As for the NC. 180 time. Broke contact to get seperation papers signed and too see her once before the wedding. As it will make it easier on me than at the wedding.
So 24th of January. I will be legally seperated. I have it backdated to Sept 15th 2009. That way we file taxes seperatley. While I was still saving 401k stuff. She was spending. So She can deal with those consequences of her actions. Not I.
Yep, S is still cranky and not feeling well. At least WH doesn't know what I was going to do and doesn't know if I was still planning on doing it!
But I need to stay with him, poor little guy!
On a different note, I just found out from SIL via text that she and her exH remarried!!! Remember, he divorced her for another woman, ended it within the year and has been trying to get her back for 1.5 years!
Good for them newmama. I hope that family and friends support them through these difficult times.
Today's update:
I'm proud of myself! stayed away from WH 12-4:30 out of 12-5! Worked out for an hour, put away all the laundry and made my bed, got ready, went to store.
WH was nice as usual; lent me his coupon book for the store, completely helped me find it when I lost it in my car(fell between the seats), stocked the fridge with soda from the garage, took out garbage/recycling...
I held S while WH trimmed his hair behind the ears (his first haircut!).
I did notice something curious. When WH came back from giving S a bath, his eyes were totally red like he'd been crying! Wonder why? I do know that he has been way more weepy since the A started. I never saw him cry before the bomb/ Dday#1. He was totally weepy during and after S's birth and gets choked up when he refers to his birth. (I find it very sweet that he can cry but useless in regard to its meaning regarding the A)
Oh and I've been meaning to add that I don't think WH thinks of the A as an A since we are seperated (although legally married). His relationship with her started when we were married though!
I told him that my class starts tomorrow night but I would have leftovers prepared for dinner. I didn't tell him what my class is but won't hide it if he asks! He'll see me wearing work out clothes though! I will still do my hair/make up before I go.
Hi Newmama!
You sound like you're doing great! And, wow! What a great story about SIL and the remarriage! Isn't that H's sister???
What's the exercise class you're doing tonight?
I just started to get healthy. I'm about 18 lbs up, and on a 5'7 frame, it's easy to not notice, so much... I've been to a naturopath, and I'm getting my metabolism, lymph system, etc... in order, and started walking 3 miles a day (in Reekbok EasyTone shoes!). Next week I'm adding in a boot camp class (at a locale and time not easy to ignore or blow off!) a few times a week.
I'm interested to see what other classes people do. I am not good w/a trainer, because I get bored, but I definitely love classes! So, we will see...
Be good!
I did notice something curious. When WH came back from giving S a bath, his eyes were totally red like he'd been crying! Wonder why?
Did you not ask him about that? I think I would have taken the opportunity for a little TLC if it was going that way - concern, compassion and understanding given you sitch. Not sure what the others think?
Oh and I've been meaning to add that I don't think WH thinks of the A as an A since we are seperated (although legally married). His relationship with her started when we were married though!
He may well do. Doesn't alter the fact it has all the signs of an A so should be treated like one. I also still don't think he's all the way in and convinced of it. Just my 2p worth.
Did you not ask him about that? I think I would have taken the opportunity for a little TLC if it was going that way - concern, compassion and understanding given you sitch.
I did not want to have any talk about our relationship in case that is why he was crying. No relationship talk during DBing nd definitely no talk with a foggy spouse! I will talk when he brings it up, I guess.
Don't worry about TLC--he knows I am a caring compassionate woman; have been from the start of our dating. I think I have shown him plenty of TLC by being so accommodating about the visitation schedule, cooking, being NICE to him while he is screwing another woman and leaving his wife and child every night, etc. etc.
whew...just a little frustration there!
I also still don't think he's all the way in and convinced of it. Just my 2p worth.
I was thinking this too...but don't want to jinx anything.
Mindfull, my Mon night class is pilates and Thurs night will be belly dancing!
and I am down 41 pounds! In anther 10 or so I get to wear a smaller pants size!
(I gained 80 @#$%$ pounds during pregnancy!!)
I did not want to have any talk about our relationship in case that is why he was crying. No relationship talk during DBing nd definitely no talk with a foggy spouse! I will talk when he brings it up, I guess.
No. I wasn't suggesting you talk to him about the R or M. I was suggesting you just being concerned his eyes are red and then he may see an opportunity to talk to you.
oh--I write things on my calendar on the wall in my bedroom like if I exercised or followed my diet, plans, etc. I do not say what I'm doing when I go ot, I just write "out." Well, on the 29th, WH takes S for overnight for the first time. I wrote that down and wrote "out" as well.
today I noticed that WH changed the lightbulb in our closet. I did not see any of his clothes taken out. But then I wondered if he saw my calendar? I have kept this habit of the calendar recording for the last 6 years we've known each other.
could there be a connection to his crying and the calendar?
No. I wasn't suggesting you talk to him about the R or M. I was suggesting you just being concerned his eyes are red and then he may see an opportunity to talk to you.
I did not want to take the chance it was about our relationship. It could go like this:
me: is something wrong? You look a little sad!
wh: yeah. well...it's too bad about everything that's happened. I am working on the paperwork for D. It's time.
me: your choice entirely. I am still commited to our marriage.
wh: I know you are. but we need to move on.
????I know that is my imagination!
????I know that is my imagination!
Newmama ... that is fear plain and simple. Nothing you said there is pushing him towards doing it. If he is going to do it he is going to do it. What you are doing there is simply AVOIDING him telling you. You can't do that.
Actually, P, I know you are right that if he wants to he will, but DBing does say to NOT bring up relationship talk! Not to pressure about D or R. So that is what I am doing. :-)
I understand. DBing says you don't bring it up as it would be seen as pursuing, pressure etc.
However HE would be bringing it up. I just thought that showing some concern may let HIM talk about it which is good.
Anyway, the chance has passed so we're talking at cross purposes
Smart man that P...
Newmama he is giving some great advice here...
Remember
Bad , sad = good
I still don't get it...it's worth discussing because it could happen again. Please do not take my arguing to mean I won't listen, but to mean that I want to understand better!
so let's say wh was crying about us. I ask him what's wrong. I INITIATE THE CONVERSATION by doing this. If I say nothing, then if he wants to talk, he will initiate the conversation.
oh and you may not know this but wh has cried:
1)telling me about OW
2)telling me he can't decide
3)telling me he will file for D
4)telling me he doesn't want to not see his S
5)when S was born. SO WH crying has never happened when he wanted to tell me good news about how much he loves me or how he has made a mistake etc.
therefore I associate wh crying with bad news about our R and I don't want to discuss our R.
now does this make sense?
so let's say wh was crying about us. I ask him what's wrong. I INITIATE THE CONVERSATION by doing this.
Ask him if he has been crying or say his eyes are red, are you okay?.
If I say nothing, then if he wants to talk, he will initiate the conversation.
But if you ask him above then you are opening the door to him and letting him know it is okay to talk. He will either say he's fine, he got something in his eye or what. Maybe he was crying and wanted to talk but felt he couldn't?
oh and you may not know this but wh has cried:
1)telling me about OW
2)telling me he can't decide
3)telling me he will file for D
4)telling me he doesn't want to not see his S
5)when S was born. SO WH crying has never happened when he wanted to tell me good news about how much he loves me or how he has made a mistake etc.
Understood. But at least he has talked about it. Many WAS's (mine included) don't.
therefore I associate wh crying with bad news about our R and I don't want to discuss our R.
I know YOU don't want to discuss your R, but maybe HE DOES? By just saying 'hey are you okay' or something equally as benign you are showing he can talk to you. If he wants to talk about the weather, okay. If he wants to talk to you about the R then that should be okay too.
That is just my grasp on the sitch. You unlock the door and if he chooses to open it and walk through then cool. If not, then that's cool too. But he can't decide to do either if he doesn't know if it's locked or not.
DBing says YOU don't talk about the R but if the WAS wants to you listen. The WAS will only talk about the R if they feel safe doing so.
I know it's fear newmama. Your last few posts are obvious that it's about that. I understand your fear but you need to embrace it and suck it up because being afraid of it isn't doing anybody any good.. If he tells you he wants to D then okay, you'll handle it. Hiding from it isn't going to change his mind is it?
Would you rather he told you he wants a D now or in another 9 months? Would you like to hear that him and OW are getting on well? Would you like to hear that he actually got soap in his eye and it was stinging?
P, thanks for making me laugh! Actually, he probably did get soap in his eye! Seriously! It makes the most sense and I'm relieved!
Thank you for taking the time to explain why you thought I should have asked him if he was okay. I still have to say I'm glad I didn't!
If he tells you he wants to D then okay, you'll handle it. Hiding from it isn't going to change his mind is it?
Sorry, but what is the point of DBing then? I didn't make up the advice of not talking about the relationship.
Yeah fear. Comes and goes, I wonder what it would be like if S was 3 or 8 or 13 and not 6 months old. If you guys get tired of me I understand but I'm not doing nothing, I am implementing distance and/or mystery. I am doing it this whole month and monitoring results.
So I have done a good job since I set this goal except for Wednesday.
P, what do you mean
Understood. But at least he has talked about it. Many WAS's (mine included) don't.
Are you trying to be comforting that "at least" my WH has talked about divorce and yours hasn't? Just clarifying!
tonight I was distant physically but not too mysterious:
I left for "class" within 10 minutes after WH arrived. He asked if I was making dinner when I got back or...? I reminded him that I had leftovers in the fridge.
(remember it doesn't really start for 2 weeks and I just lied b/c I didn't have another reason to leave)
I decided to actually drive to the place so I know where it is and I did some grocery shopping. I talked to a friend on the phone while in the store.
When I came back, it was 7:40 and WH stays until 8. WH had left the Mexican food out on the counter and told me he saved it in case I was still hungry. I was! I had grocery bags and lied and said the teacher was sick so I did some shopping.
He was all excited to show me the pictures he took of S while I was gone and stood close behind me while I looked at them. I was genuinely pleased with the photos! He also cleaned up the dinner, and asked me about my Rheumatoid Arthitis and my grandma. I didn't ask him too many q's but I did bring up a couple of topics I knew he liked.
I know the exchange of conversation was not part of my plan to be distant, but he sure seemed happy to talk to me- and while we were in the kitchen I caught a weird de ja vous vibe of old times...
Tomorrow night I make dinner. Pasta Carbonara! new dish! I will be able to avoid WH except for 20 minutes or so.
Wednesday will be easy for me to stay busy and out of the house, but he is coming with S and I to our sign language class!
Truefully Newmama.
I do not know how you do it. This is a very long Plan A.
How much resentment are you building? That is a concern of mine for your stitch.
P.S. Some very nice acts of service. Its too bad you do not know a friend of that whore(Did I say that.... ). It would be nice for her to get a little info back on what H is doing.
Do you know anyone from the 6 degrees of seperation beside your H?
Cutter, I think maybe you and P are getting tired of my ways. January just started an by the end of the month I will have mastered the technique of being distant, mysterious, but still nice! I am just slipping up a little is all but I will get better! Hey, am down to cooking one meal per night, am going to be gone 2/3 evenings that he is here and busy all day on his day off up until the signing class! (which is at the end of his visit)
Plan A has been 3 months I think--October to present. My resentment tolerance goes up and down.
I have been on here for 2 months.
I will think about your idea regarding the 6 degrees of separation.
I believe my WH is not convinced he wants to D, but he will not go on like this forever, so to quote Kelly Clarkson's song, "Someone's gotta go" (and it will be THE HO)
Tonight I did well being gone 5:45-7:40. Did bad by telling him I went grocery shopping-could have hid them in the car til he left(no frozen foods) and just said "Class was cancelled" if he asked how it went.
Tomorrow I plan to stay busy working out, cooking, cleaning. I will be available during the time we eat the meal; 15-20 minutes.
(BTW today S and I went to music class, saw my grandma and took her to lunch. Tomorrow we visit my sister at her college)
Cutter, I think maybe you and P are getting tired of my ways.
Newmama I would never pretend to speak for cutter, but I think I can say that none of us are tired of your ways. You are going down a course that I went down too. The difference being I lasted a month or two. You have lasted almost 9. You have a strength in you that I didn't have and I am proud that you are continuing down the road.
You keep going as long as you can. We're simply posing the questions that are difficult to hear sometimes. We mean nothing by it other than support, understanding and caring.
January just started an by the end of the month I will have mastered the technique of being distant, mysterious, but still nice! I am just slipping up a little is all but I will get better!
We all slip up! You will continue to slip up. The trick is not to beat yourself up about it. Pick yourself up, brush yourself down and start walking down the road again knowing you have learned a little more.
I believe my WH is not convinced he wants to D, but he will not go on like this forever, so to quote Kelly Clarkson's song, "Someone's gotta go" (and it will be THE HO)
What do YOU think will happen? Not out of fear but out of knowing your H way better than we do? What does your gut tell you?
If he tells you he wants to D then okay, you'll handle it. Hiding from it isn't going to change his mind is it?
Sorry, but what is the point of DBing then?
I think you misunderstand me.
What I was saying is that hiding from him telling you isn't going to change his mind. All you are doing then is running away from his 'talk' with you. If he has made up his mind, running away won't change it ... IYSWIM
The point of DBing is to make sure that he has as difficult a time as possible making up his mind! Two different things.
I didn't make up the advice of not talking about the relationship.
I know. It's in the DB books but the books say YOU don't talk about it. It says that if THEY want to talk about it then let them, validate etc.
Yeah fear. Comes and goes, I wonder what it would be like if S was 3 or 8 or 13 and not 6 months old. If you guys get tired of me I understand but I'm not doing nothing, I am implementing distance and/or mystery. I am doing it this whole month and monitoring results.
Newmama, we are far from tired of you. You are the positive light in this forum for me. You are always upbeat, positive and moving forward. You seem to be the one who is handling their sitch with a smile on their face every day.
The fear is there is us all. We all hide and run away from it. Some days are better than others. Some days we say we can handle the truth. Some days we'd rather hide under the duvet. But we all know that running away from the truth is fear and that's not a good or adult thing to do ... it doesn't stop any of us doing it though. We're all human.
If you are happy with the course you are taking then that is all that matters. We are just here offering advice and suggestions. Just like you do with us. I really appreciate every single person who replies to me as they have taken a few minutes out of their day to give me their experience and help for nothing. That is really special for me.
P, what do you mean
Understood. But at least he has talked about it. Many WAS's (mine included) don't.
Are you trying to be comforting that "at least" my WH has talked about divorce and yours hasn't? Just clarifying!
LOL ... No. I was actually talking about the other things. The OW etc. Okay they may not be the best topics to bring up but my W has said pretty nothing since she left. Other than a letter dated in August where she put down the problems for her (some of them are relevant but most of the letter I now realise is lies because of the A) I know nothing about what she saw as lacking in the marriage. As she is a person who hides behind a happy persona there could be nuclear war and you wouldn't know if she was upset. Your H at least feels he CAN talk to you. The topics weren't great but at least he did.
tonight I was distant physically but not too mysterious:
I left for "class" within 10 minutes after WH arrived. He asked if I was making dinner when I got back or...? I reminded him that I had leftovers in the fridge.
(remember it doesn't really start for 2 weeks and I just lied b/c I didn't have another reason to leave)
LOL ... good good. He is a big boy. He can make his own dinner. He has a cook at his 'other' home.
I decided to actually drive to the place so I know where it is and I did some grocery shopping. I talked to a friend on the phone while in the store.
When I came back, it was 7:40 and WH stays until 8. WH had left the Mexican food out on the counter and told me he saved it in case I was still hungry. I was! I had grocery bags and lied and said the teacher was sick so I did some shopping.
That's DBing. Little lies are okay. And he was thinking about you ... an act of service.
I know the exchange of conversation was not part of my plan to be distant, but he sure seemed happy to talk to me- and while we were in the kitchen I caught a weird de ja vous vibe of old times...
Slow down Newmama. I got EXACTLY the same vibes from W when she was here. Standing in the kitchen like old times while she told me about problems with work etc. I got quite a few 2x4's in here for reading too much into it. Just accept that it was a nice personal time and let it go at that. He may well be just normalising. When he is talking to you like that, remember where he goes home to and you will hopefully check yourself that while it's nice to have that time, it feels a little weird.
Maybe I'm out of line for suggesting it, but if it happens to me again that is what I will be thinking.
I am not tired of you either newmama. I think that resentment is a possibility so I asked the question. That way you would ask it to yourself.
I offer only support of your choices. And once in awhile a different perpespective.
I am not going anywhere.
What do YOU think will happen? Not out of fear but out of knowing your H way better than we do? What does your gut tell you?
I have always had hope...I think he'll be back. But if I can get good at being distant, it might be sooner than later, ie. 2 months not 4 months.
I offer only support of your choices. And once in awhile a different perpespective.
I am not going anywhere.
Thank you Cutter!! I thought you were hinting around that I need to go to plan B. Just can't do it yet....
And I really do appreciate your different perspective! I may argue with it but it always makes me think about my actipons!
okay glad you aren't going anywhere...phew! But I imagine my actions are frustrating to others looking in!
<<<< Not looin' >>>>
LOL, J/K
I'm not sure who moves at more of a snails pace (you or me!?), but, we're cute!
If you are happy with the course you are taking then that is all that matters. We are just here offering advice and suggestions. Just like you do with us. I really appreciate every single person who replies to me as they have taken a few minutes out of their day to give me their experience and help for nothing. That is really special for me.
P, I absolutely value and cherish you, Cutter, Ravenly, Daybyday and others who take the time to either cheer me on or question what I'm doing!
I just worry that you'll lose patience with me or think I'm ignoring your advice if I choose to not implement it. BUT I ALWAYS consider it!!It makes me think!
gotta run for now!! (((DB Forum)))
P, I absolutely value and cherish you, Cutter, Ravenly, Daybyday and others who take the time to either cheer me on or question what I'm doing!
I just worry that you'll lose patience with me or think I'm ignoring your advice if I choose to not implement it. BUT I ALWAYS consider it!!It makes me think!
gotta run for now!! (((DB Forum)))
No need to worry. We're not losing patience at all. Just, as Cutter said, asking some questions in the hope that you ask yourself with them. If you are happy with the answers then that's all that's needed!
As for what you said to Cutter about Plan B - both of us are there and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody unless there were simply no choices left, or, in my case, they couldn't handle the situation. I wouldn't push anybody into Plan B as it either fixes or kills your M.
I don't think Plan B is actually a good choice for you until it's clear Plan A isn't going to work. And I don't think you're at that stage, as you said.
OK, time for an update...
yesterday was busy with my sister and it is very cool to get to know her as an adult! She is 21; 12 years younger than me!
Anyway, I believe God or my guardian angel was looking out for us yesterday because on the way home, the gas light came on while I was on the freeway. After kicking myself, I thought No big deal, I will use my handy portable GPS to find the nearest gas station. So I started to follow the directions given but couldn't tell the name of the streets so I got turned around. I tried again and in my distracted state ran a red light while oncoming traffic was turning left!!! Luckily the car had just entered the intersection so they could stop in time and I kept going but pulled over to calm myself and say a prayer of thanks!! Whew!
Luckily I was able to drive farther to a gas station I knew and never ran out of gas!
Do you know the crazy thing about this? When I saw the gas light, first thought was "oh crap, I gotta fill up" and the second thought was "WH would be so pissed if he knew I let the tank get this low" WTH? Why was I worried about what HE thought? I think it was because I still want his approval, even more now because I am the mother of his son!!! Later, I told him about the gas light but not about running the red light...
So last night I ended up being exhausted and did not want to work out so I didn't. WH arrived late but told me ahead of time that he had a meeting. Instead of texting, he called to let me know he was on his way. I said goodbye first (for what it's worth!) I made pasta carbonara for dinner, but made too much sauce so the meal was "soppy." WH still had seconds though and was very nice about it.
At one point I was looking for super glue for my nail and he gets up and digs around until he found some for me. Now I was not busy like I had planned, but luckily I was tired so I was naturally and authentically distant!
S ended up taking longer than normal to go to sleep, so WH stayed later but by 8:25 I let him know that I could take it from there.
all right will update about today after I feed S!
OK, S is fed and asleep. Today when WH arrived he brought starbucks lattes for both of us...I was surprised and thankful-it has been a few weeks since he brought me any!
So I took half an hour or so to drink it and check my email, etc. We chatted a little about nothing. Then I worked out, got ready, sorted through S's old baby clothes to give away, then left to run errands. When I returned, WH filled me in on S, then let me know his stepdad was flying in from Alaska on last minute whim and would be visiting tomorrow. He hasn't seen him in 6-7 years and I've never met him. WH was telling me how his family always just announces their arrival without arranging ahead of time to see if it will work. Well, I will be at Bunco and WH will be with S so I won't get to see his stepdad. He sounded genuinely sorry that I wouldn't be able to meet him. (yet another weird thing to me...if he wants to divorce me hy would he care if I met his family?)
Then I baked goodies for my Bunco group: 2 desserts that include peanutbutter jelly bars and oreo rice krispy treats. For appetizers I'm making "cowboy caviar" which is basically a bean salad with Mexican seasoning served with tortilla chips and a pesto-hummus dip that is store bought, served with sliced baguette and veggies for dipping.
WH ended up not going with us to the signing class because he had to get his oil changed but I am actually glad he didn't go! (more about the class later)
Oh, this is funny-when WH was putting S in his car seat in my car, he said "Ok, love you guys!" Now obviously this was a slip of some sort- maybe he meant to say "love you, guy!" so I pretended not to notice. I want to believe it was a subconscious slip...but maybe he says "love you guys" to OW and her little girl.
Regardless, it cracked me up!
so I think I am achieving my goal of being distant with 80-90% accuracy. Still too soon to see results yet, but the longer I do it, the easier it gets and the more determination I have to keep at it!
pretty slow lately...
went to bunco tonight.
Well when I came home from Bunco WH was trying to put S down but he was overtired. WH eventually brought him downstairs and said "I like to be sure to get him to sleep before I go. I don't like to leave when he is still awake." Now you know I was thinking "Well if you hadn't left, you could stay up as long as you'd like and make sure he is asleep" but I just said "I know you do. You were trying really hard."
So apparently he went to SIL's house and they were all going to go out to dinner but then SIL and her H left with the boys for a banquet so it was just WH and his stepdad. I kind of thought that was weird, because an hour before, his sister arranged plans for dinner, and then they go to a banquet? Makes me curious about what his stepdad was talking to him about!
To top that, my SIL had asked if she and her stepdad could come visit S today. First I said yes but then when I found out that he would be seeing S last night I made other plans. Well WH said he heard they might be coming over but assured me they didn't have to; that if I felt uncomfortable with it that they could just not come over and he seemed a little uneasy about me seeing stepdad....the day before he seemed sorry that I wouldn't meet him and now it's like he doesn't want me to meet him?
Well lucky for him I have plans for S and I to visit my friend so I won't meet his stepdad this time. I know his real dad way better anyway.
Tomorrow WH sees S from 8 to 4(it is a LOOOOOONG day with a baby if you don't take him somewhere, haha!I hope OW and her kid get really annoyed!) for two Saturdays, then on the 29th takes him overnight on Friday at 6 and returns by 12 on Saturday.
WH just texted to me to ask if his sister and stepdad were visiting today (I didn't tell him they weren't yet). He said "Hope S won't be too worn out" when I replied simply with "No they aren't" he replied "That's probably for the best anyway so you two can rest."
I take it there isn't anything people feel like commenting on but will someone please humor me and make a guess as to why WH is so nervous now about me talking to his stepdad?
no mind reader here... You gotta find something better to dwell on... Please...
I take it there isn't anything people feel like commenting on but will someone please humor me and make a guess as to why WH is so nervous now about me talking to his stepdad?
I agree with Cutter. Your mind reading.
Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe you're reading WAAAY too much into this. Stop it now.
Hi guys, guess you are reading! :-)Hang in there.
I think WH doesn't want me to know something they talked about. Could be good or bad.
Women ruminate over stuff...it's what we do and don't worry I am just curious not scared/angry/hopeful/happy.
For awhile I thought you all were DB'ing me
LOL what?
I visited a friend of mine who clearly thinks I'm nuts for 1)having hope and 2)wanting to reconcile. She doesn't know as much about my sitch as you all do, but I think the real reason is that her exH cheated on her with 4 different women. She had no clue whatsoever until she opened a piece of mail that was from one of the OW requesting her child support. So there is an OC out there somewhere. Currently he is living on again off again with the last OW and they have a child together. He still wanted my friend back though but it was all too much for her. She just told me that if we divorce I should keep the house for equity.
She is happily involved with a great man.
it was lonely. Everyone took a break at the same time
it was lonely. Everyone took a break at the same time
I noticed it too
Women ruminate over stuff...it's what we do and don't worry I am just curious not scared/angry/hopeful/happy.
Newmama:
When I read your post about the almost "nervousness" re: StepDad and you seeing each other after their time together, my first thought was... What doesn't he want them to talk about?????
Must be a girl thing!
P& Cutter you are right...there was a 2-3 day break among a lot of us! I would like to think that happened because we were busy GALing...
Mindfull--thank you for validating my feelings! And you know what? As my therapist would say, it is just a feeling so acknowledge it and move on. Later, I might find something out that justifies it. (I could snoop and call his sister but I think I should just move on.)
Well WH just picked up S and said they would be coming back a little eary because his stepdad wants to see him one more time before he goes. He asked me if I wanted to join them but he understands if I would feel uncomfortable. First I thought he said he told them to meet me at our house which ticked me off because he didn't ask me first. But no he was saying it could be at various locations and our house was one option.
My gut said "yes, go!" But then my thinking started to kick in... wondering if it is sending a wrong message or wondering about creating distance and that not going would help to be distant.
Then I thought that it would be another situation where once again, the OW is not part of a family gathering and bonding, etc. etc.
So I checked with one of my friends who said "NO. It would be easing WH's guilt and he wants to show his stepdad you are ok with the situation."
Another friend said "You should go- the more interaction with his family the better and if it were me, I would (she also went through an A with her H)"
So THEN I decided to call my SIL and see what she thought and to ask about the other night. She said 1) Their stepdad KNOWS about the situation, doesn't agree with WH and also is confident that WH is a good man making a bad decision 2)Their stepdad really wants to meet me and 3)Not meeting him will not make WH stay longer in the A. But she added that she completely respected my decision and so would stepdad if I didn't go.
Oh and she said actually they really did have to leave that night to go to a banquet but they also did want WH and stepdad to be alone together.
So I am going to go...but at least I didn't say "SURE!" instantly when WH asked. I told him to check with me later and we would see.
Always choke out OW with H's family.... Always....
And when you meet stepdad.
GAL his ass off. Show him the woman you are and show him the beautiful baby you two have.
Let him decide his own thoughts on this.
Cutter, I am relieved to have your support on this! Phew! I mean I make my decisions but still care what you guys think.
The other thing about meeting his stepdad is that my initial feelings and thoughts were NOT about the A and more about 1) wanting to meet him and 2)not wanting to hurt the stepdad's feelings. It was when I was second guessing myself that it made me think of the message my actions may have on WH. So it wasn't originally about WH for once! Imagine that?
On a different note, I wasn't feeling depressed about WH taking S today. When WH came in he first just stood in the hall and said "Hi,S! How are you?" And S turned his head toward the voice and had a huge smile on his face and got excited! Then when WH came into the room, S practically jumped out of my arms to see him! It sure made me feel good to see S is crazy about his dad, even if his dad is being a complete stupid idiot right now. It makes me feel good because I see hope for the two of them to have a good relationship regardless of what happens to our marriage.
Also, I was looking forward to some time in the house to myself. Now when he takes him overnight, that may be a different story.
Okay so WH called and reminded me that if I was too uncomfortable he understood. I said "No, I would like to meet your stepdad!"
So he picked me up and I thought of some things to chat about (current events, the Jay Leno/Conan Obrien scandal, Avatar etc.)
We arrived and pulled up just as his stepdad and SIL's exexH (H) arrived with pizza and salads. I walked toward his stepdad with hand extended and he said, No! I do hugs! It's great to meet you!
Then the visit went pretty easy going; some references to the work on our house that WH did, but little talk about memories or past although there were plenty of opportunities to bring them up. That was hard to censor! I did find out more about WH's childhood and his stepdad was such a nice guy!
At one point an old familiar urge to go sit next to WH on the couch and cuddle came over me--just what we would do when gathering with family--and luckily I stopped myself! There was an opening right next to him on the couch! Phew--
His stepdad got out the video camera and filmed S a little to take back to his wife.
So then we finally left and his stepdad gave me a hug and said "it was great to finally meet you!" and I said "Same here!" Then we we got to the car WH said "that wasn't so bad!" and I just said "yeah!" The ride home had some silence but WH filled it with innocent talk, repeating himself about S.
When we got back, he fed S and then left. I wonder what he had told OW--that he was going to take S to see his sister? Surely he didn't say to see his stepdad because then she would have been hurt that he didn't invite her! But I know we can't read minds. It still makes me curious.
Oh and SIL's H had to leave for work. I noticed she had a different wedding ring-I will ask her about that some time, like what her opinion was about the old one and what she did with it.
Luckily S wasn't over at OW's from 9-3 more like 9-12!
And when we arrived at the house WH said "maybe moss will be taking over the yard and I won't have to plant grass"
(Like he is still going to be working on our yard? WTH)
u know. you could cut out the feeding of S.
When he is with you.
It is an act of service.
Sorry but WH is over here to see and tend to S and it relieves me of some of the work so I won't be interfering with dad duty!
yea ignore that one. I have no idea why i wrote it...
Ok today... WH came over and I planned my usual: work out then leave to go to the store. We were totally out of baby food. I said I would get some today and he said that he could always go and get some if I just wanted to chill out and not go anywhere. I said "thanks but I REALLY DO want to get out of the house!" I worked out, then he remembered that I needed to update the GPS he bought me last year (add some current maps) and got the cords and box down from the office. I honestly felt nervous about him being alone on my laptop because I have some affair stuff saved but I did delete the history of internet searches.. I don't want him to know my strategy!
So I started the work on the computer to update the maps but then had to go to the store. (I did move around the affair documents I saved to inconspicuous folder). When I returned there was 30 minutes before he had to leave. He was playing with S and saying how much fun he is these days. I hung out on the couch reading a cookbook while he had a football game on TV, sitting on the floor with S. It felt good- natural and I imagined what it could be like if we were back together...this could be a typical Sunday night!
Oh and here is something else-tomorrow, WH has the day off being MLK Jr's B-day (90% sure OW does also since they both work at the same place!)I knew this but originally on the visitation calendar he just wrote the usual time. So I figured he had plans with OW during the day or something. Well today he said he forgot that he had tomorrow off and if it was all right, he could come over during the day but he also completely understood if I had other plans.He also said that he knew I also appreciated help getting S down at night so he could also just come at night like usual. Well I told him that he could come after our music class any time so he is coming 2-6. It's not fantastic BUT it does mean he would not be taking the entire day to be with her! In fact, in November he had Veteran's Day off and chose to spend it with her instead of coming over here.
So that's it...I managed to be physically absent about 4/5 hours.
Newmama,
I've never posted to you before but I've lurked and FWIW I think you totally did the right thing going to meet his Stepdad and you are doing a WONDERFUL job at DBing and 180's. Keep up the good work.
S&S
Just wanted to post that nothing bad happened or anything...just have been busy with social activities and my 6 month old trying to get him to nap by himself! He is going through a separation phase or something. So my stolen moments to post have been few.
Minor updates--signed up for both classes; belly dancing starts tomorrow night. (BTW these are cheap classes done through my parks and rec department)
I haven't had any indications of anything changing with WH lately. He was over here yesterday and I was able to be gone all but an hour doing stuff. Saw Sherlock Holmes--it was fun and I just love RObert Downey Jr. despite all of his problems! Jude Law did a good job playing Dr. Watson.
Only cooking dinner once this week- tonight it's baked chicken nuggets(tossed in seasoned panko crumbs) and mashed potatoes with bacon and green onions.
My friend came over last night for dinner and we had a great time, then today is signing class and tomorrow is baby group. Friday my mom is coming to visit. So have plenty to do.
I have played with my wii but not much time so on Sat when WH has S all day I will do some more then.
I guess WH is still finding acts of service...he vacuumed yesterday and changes light bulbs, there isn't much else to do besides taking out the trash! So I think it's good I am trying to do most of it.
Oh and thanks Sugar and Spice for your encouragement! Believe me I get depressed every now and then but am just trying to be consistent with my plan to not be as present. It did take a couple of months after I started my other changes before he commented on them so it might take another couple of months for hm to notice I'm not around as much.
and in the meantime am still losing weight and looking better and better so by the time he notices that he misses me he might be noticing that I am also looking like my old sexy self!
Ok tonight's dinner was a success! Very yummy and low(er) calorie!
WH asked how our signing class went so I shared a little about it and the very natural organic teacher (nothing wrong with being organic--just describing). When I shared those details he said "Oh, kind of like the nurse from our labor class?" Had to bring up a connection from the past.
I stayed away and busy with working out and cooking, cleaning while he tended to S. At one point I ate dinner by myself while he put S to sleep, then he ate dinner while I was cleaning up. Hmmm...may need to repeat this schedule in the future!
But then he put S to sleep by 7:45, was done with dinner a little after 8 and then hung around until 8:30 to make sure S stayed asleep. He told me next Tuesday he would be working late but wanted to make sure I didn't have plans. He won't be coming over that night (so what if I did have plans--then he wouldn't be working late? WTH?). But this works out well because
Monday-no dinner; I will be in class
Tuesday-no dinner- he won't be coming over
Wed-no dinner- he stays during the day
Thurs-no dinner- I go out
It also means other than his day off on Wed, I won't be seeing much of him! And I plan to go see a movie again on Wednesday!
In fact, I had to remind him that he was taking S overnight next Friday because he said he would trade Tuesday with Friday...I would have thought he'd remember since it is a big deal.
Let's see....he said the mashed potatoes were really creamy and good, and the chicken was crispy and good.
I am wondering what he will be doing or saying about our tax return. He has been fair with money all of this time; we are filing jointly this year as planned ahead, but I do have a tax credit from my student loans. I don't want to bring up taxes because I think it could lead to talk about the future in some way. (A discussion of future and/or the relationship is a DB no-no) So I am willing to give up 50 bucks or whatever the credit will amount to. I am curious though to see if he will use all of the tax return for himself. I know I just got through saying he has been fair, but the man has a lot of expenses with his other lifestyle and he abhors debt!
When dinner was over for both of us, he joined me in the kitchen to help clean up--it was strange because we did the tandem clean up like we always did in the past (one loads dishwasher, other puts away food and cleans off counter).
Oh and NEVER watch 2.5 Men with your WS! Until you can get to the point of laughing about adultery...so maybe never....I swear it is in EVERY SINGLE EPISODE!
I forgot to say that previously in the week he said "in a couple of months we should be looking at daycares closer to the freeway." :-(
The one we both like is close to our house.
I just had said "Yeah." and then felt like crying but held back and left the house to go sign up for my classes!
As of that day, obviously he didn't have future plans to get back with me. BUT I will not be discouraged; a lot can happen between now and then.
Oh and I found some other threads on here from 2008 where couples who separated actually reconciled after 1-2 years! So it is possible.
for some reason I was thinking of the recommendation by sgotox about reading The Art of Seduction. So I looked it up on amazon to read reviews and was shocked to hear that it is very powerful and psychological manipulation. Well of course I was intrigued so I peeked inside the book (you know how they allow you to see some pages) and I am mesmerized! Whoa it has different types of approaches for seduction (I think only one is sexual) and different profiles for "the victims" of the seduction.
Now I must say that reading the different descriptions for seductive strategies actually brought to mind OW and man, was/is she a master manipulator!
So I think tonight, I will pick up a copy of the book, treat myself to a glass of wine at a local pub and read it! Well after my belly dancing class of course! Am so excited to go!!!
If you are curious about the book, check out the reviews on Amazon but watch out- it might offend you or trigger you.
oh and I will make sure it still aligns with me being distant and mysterious!
I forgot to say that previously in the week he said "in a couple of months we should be looking at daycares closer to the freeway." :-(
The one we both like is close to our house.
I just had said "Yeah." and then felt like crying but held back and left the house to go sign up for my classes!
Could be he's testing you.
DBD, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking but didn't want to say aloud! I was curious how he looked/what he looked at while he said it for more clues but I know that is too over-analyzing! I am a perpetual fountain of hope on this particular sitch, however.
You are doing great, Newmama! Thanks for the book recommendation, I will check that out!
Newmama - I'll meet you at the pub, and we can read that together!
pub what where... I am in.
Black velvet for cutter.
OH I WISH you guys were close to me but I am probably 3 hours time difference away from you all. I live on the West coast in Oregon!
Oh well I feel connected to you anyway here on DB forum!
I totally didn't think of the possibility of him testing me when he mentioned looking for daycare closer to the freeway! Well how did I do? I just nodded like "oh yeah no big deal" and said "yeah!" then changed the subject. That was good right?
Well tonight I bought my book, The Art of Seduction, and it is pretty good so far but it reminds me of something I would read in a college class. I did take a class called "The Philosophy of Sex and Love" and this book would be a perfect assignment for that class! It is not a light read. So I will need to study it during the time I can; maybe more so on Saturday when WH has S from 8-4.
I did glean that I am a "charmer" when it comes to my seduction style but it said we could be a blend of more than one type. And WH is "sensual" but I think there is more, so I will figure it out and report later!
So tonight I was gussied up and wearing lipstick with my "going out" shoes. I informed WH about S's day and then left. He usually says "have fun!" but just said "see you later" tonight. I went to the bookstore, bought the book, then read it over a couple glasses of red wine like I planned. A little while later, my class started so I arrived and changed into the appropriate clothing.
There were 20 women or so and 1 man! (????) Right away the instructor came to me to help me (I AM NOT coordinated! But after watching and listening I will achieve a C performance usually.) I still had a lot of fun and can't wait to go back! I need to purchase a "coin skirt" so it will ching and chang while I shake my hips Shikira style! The thing about learning these moves is that no one else outside of belly dancing students or experts will know if I am NOT doing the right moves. So when I show others what I have learned they will be impressed regardless!
Then I changed back into my clothes and went to a nearby restaurant for some salad and bruschetta while I read more of my book. I made sure to take time so I didn't come back too early!
When I arrived home, WH was just watching TV. S was asleep. He didn't ask me what I was doing and I asked him how S did. So we chatted about S and then he said he was going to get going and he'd check with us in the morning.
I just feel good--even though I am not down to my pre-preg weight yet, I do look good (chubby girls can still have curves!) and am 10 pounds or less away from the heaviest I have been with WH.
I'm hoping my confidence is radiating as well as my "secret" about the class I'm taking!
So that's it for now...
Just putting in a quick post. I am still reading The Art of Seduction still and will be posting reflections and thoughts soon.
Currently I am playing (new) Super Mario Bros on my wii and having fun! I sure don't get to play it as much as I thought but hopefully once S goes back to sleeping longer at night I will be able to. There are some other games I want to play but will get to them!
My house got a little messy yesterday and it bothered me that it had to be in this state when WH came to get S. After this post I am working out and then cleaning it. I don't want him to think my changes are superficial! But the reality too is that I was so busy with company and the baby shower that I didn't get much of a chance to clean up! But when he gets S he will see that it was cleaned again.
Now whenever he comes to pick up S and takes S over there I am not as nice as usual, haha! I mean I am just kind of like "hi, yeah he ate at this and this time. Ok see you later!" He was almost asking me what clothes S should wear like I was going to help him pack the clothes or prepare for his visit??? give me a break!
So luckily today is the last 8-4 visit and then next weekend S will be back by 12 so if I sleep in I won't have to miss S for too long! I am trying to figure out if I want to leave the house next Friday night or just "pretend" like I am leaving. In the future weeks, I will plan something to do but I might just want to stay in my own house and relax.
I worked out for over an hour with a break in the middle and got my cleaning done. When WH arrived I still had the music playing and was on my laptop, fresh and sparkly. I jumped up and practically grabbed S out of his arms. He said S would be needing a bottle and a nap so I immediately got it ready while he was in the bathroom. When he came out, I was already feeding S. He said "Oh, I was going to make you a bottle." Then he said "well S was in a pretty good mood all day and he did great!" I said,"good." (picture bored tone of voice) He asked if there was anything I needed before he left and I said "no thanks." Then finally he said his last goodbye and said "well I'll see you tomorrow!" I said "ok, bye!" The reason why I am sharing this fascinating summary (LOL) is because WH tried to do acts of service but I didn't let him AND I was being polite but not too nice or too rude.
OMG! I just checked out the table of contents on Amazon for Art of seduction. This is OW's manual! She must be following it play by play. And my dufus H, Duhs along. I wonder when she will slip up? I've gotta get the book to fight fire with fire! nm, what are you thinking about it??
Whatnow, the Art of Seduction reeks of OW for me too...It has been so hard to get through because I see her manipulation on every page!
Ways to seduce: be their friend (CHECK), get their sympathy (CHECK), drop sexual hints (CHECK), mirror their tastes and interests (CHECK), raise their curiosity and then ignore them (CHECK), make them open up to you and convince them they are sad and unhappy (CHECK), be their sexual fantasy woman (CHECK)show you have opposite sex characteristics (CHECK)...there are more.
I think she did practically every technique except stay on the periphery and befriend his friends. Nope she moved right on in. AN EXPERT MANIPULATOR!
So now I need to be able to shake her image from my head when I read it and try to think of what I did to seduce WH and see if I want to employ any of those techniques now.
I do see the 180 being a seductive technique because as everyone knows, when you are not around anymore, the other person misses you. When you are quiet and "mysterious" it is alluring because it raises the other person's curiosity, and the AoS even said that sometimes being cruel can cause the "victim" of your seduction to be interested in you.
It has confirmed some common sense things we know like being too eager or coming on too strong makes you look insecure, but there were some other techniques that surprised me. Depending on your victim, you might want to "need their help" or "get their sympathy" It didn't say "If you are someone whose spouse left you due to an affair with another person, these are ways to get your spouse back." Nope. So I haven't gotten to the meat of the plan or "how to" yet.
Today when WH comes over I will leave and take my book with me to a coffee shop to study more.
I am off to the bookstore this afternoon!
I am tempted to send it to OW (via H) thanking her for the loan!
Even then, H would refuse to see the manipulation. He refuses to "see" the obvious things she's said. Like "my H is a drinker and gets violent" "I am afraid he will come after us". Everyone who knows him, has never seen this behavior from him and when A was exposed, his reply was "I don't want to hear anymore, I am done with her." I thought H was smarter than all this.....
I know what you mean, Whatnow, OW told WH that her now exH drugged her with her own pills and raped her when she was unconscious. He told me the story and I totally believed it because her exH is pretty much a loser but then I told it to a friend of mine who said that it sounded like fabrication for sympathy! I am so naive and trusting, damnit! No longer...
But my WH can't stand to be controlled or manipulated so it is hysterical that he succumbed to her manipulation!
He refuses to "see" the obvious things she's said. Like "my H is a drinker and gets violent" "I am afraid he will come after us". Everyone who knows him, has never seen this behavior from him and when A was exposed, his reply was "I don't want to hear anymore, I am done with her." I thought H was smarter than all this.....
My W told OM that I beat her ... yes, the man who never ever lifted his hand to his W suddenly became a violent man.
Newmama, did you mention this is in the AoS - sympathy?
Yes, P and nice to see you stop by! Sympathy is one of the methods!! But what did W's OM do to allure her?
Yes, P and nice to see you stop by! Sympathy is one of the methods!! But what did W's OM do to allure her?
I know we are supposed to find out but do you know what ... I don't actually care. Probably just being an ear. Somebody who said the right things at the right time. Compliments. Touching. The usual stuff. As they were many hours apart and hundreds of miles, most of it was via the phone so an ear was probably the main one.
okay here is my seduction plan...will continue my distance but during my brief presence, will start to leave little hints that will become images/thoughts in WH's mind (ala AoS). Since he is a sensual man but loves to be needed, I will be appealing to his senses in the following ways (this is fun by the way):
scent: wearing perfume HE likes, burning candle with scent that HE likes, cooking food that gives off pleasant aromas that linger (italian seasonings, garlic and onion, etc.)
visual: he looooves color, multi color especially. So I purchased some blouses on sale that had multi colored patterns but fit well.I bought nice pillows for the couch that are color coordinated with the room. He loves my long hair so I will continue to wear my hair down. He likes lip gloss and lipstick, too, but I have a plan for that. He also likes fitted shirts and clothes that hug the curves (like all men) so I will wear those clothes. The house will stay clean as well. I will continue losing weight.
auditory: he loves music, mostly rock but alternative as well. I timed it yesterday to have that kind of music playing on pandora when he arrived home with S (I enjoy some of the same bands that he listens to so I am not faking it). I was listening to it when cleaning. So I plan to have it on again when he comes here from work to see S. Also, I will work very hard to not flap my jaw so much.
taste: I will have some food that he likes in the fridge, will still cook on occasion (once per week), have wine he likes, etc.
touch: sigh, this is a tough one. I guess by keeping the house clean, it helps. I tried to find some soft sweaters or sulky shirts to wear so I could brush past him...but only have stuff in my closet that is a little small still (will fit 20 pounds from now)
mystery: AoS says you need to let the victim become curious so carefully plan when and how you will show him clues of your mysterious side. Well I won't do this all in one week, but over the next 3 weeks: will be dressed up with lipstick on Thursday night and when he arrives to pick up S for is overnight visit this Friday. (I want him to associate lipstick with going out) I will leave some of my new lingerie out on the washing machine "to dry." I will somehow show the coin skirt I will buy for my belly dancing class. I am planting herbs but will first get the seedlings started indoors. At some point I will show/share the wii...he can catch me playing a game. I am watching a new sci-fi show (we both like science fiction) and will record it on the DVR so he will be bound to see it recorded and possibly inquire. Now I don't want all of this stuff to be discovered in the same way, so I'll need to reveal them in various ways.
The other thing from AoS so far is that you have to be subtle and carefully take advantage of every interaction with your victim. Plan every move and py attention to details, timing, etc. If you are too obvious they will see that you are playing games and will be pissed that you are being manipulative.
Oh and I need to remind WH that I'm foxy, not just a mom, so I started working out in just my sports bra and shorts(since I've lost weight, it is safe to do this now, LOL), and I think my confidence from losing weight, my new clothes and lingerie will help remind him.
Oh yeah and another thing...to appeal to his need to be needed; will allow certain acts of service to continue and show my appreciation for them. I will ask his parenting advice and for other stuff.
And will really really improve not interrupting him, listening carefully to what he says, repeat his words back (i.e. active listening).
Now before you get the wrong image of me doing all of this and following him around the house, au contraire...will be doing my own thing but all of he above can be accomplished with me minimally talking to him! My things will be around the house, but I will be absent!
AoS does say that it's important to be in good spirits when they see you so they will begin to subconsciously associate you with feeling good; relaxed, positive.
WOW! you go girl!
It does sound like you are having fun!
I got the book today but haven't had a chance to crack it yet.
Can't wait!
I do remember reading elsewhere this little tidbit:
When speaking to him, replace the words "I think" with "I feel" and to actually use the "I feel" "It feels" (It is) "This feels"(this is) at every opportunity.
Just updating...
Monday's seduction methods: had music playing when WH arrived from work. The aroma of sauteed onions and garlic hung in the air. I was wearing perfume he likes. I recorded some shows we both might like.
When WH walked in, he said "smells good in here!" (the food)
About 5 minutes after WH arrived, he commented on the music...asking if it was pandora (internet radio). I said yes, and that S and I were playing and I realized the TV was on but I wasn't watching it so I switched to music.
5 minutes ater I left for my pilates class...PILATES ROCKS! It felt soooo good afterward, like I had received a massage except I had exerted my ab muscles the whole time! Yeah, the instructor only had to come over to me once but went to another lady 5 times!Of course I couldn't lift my torso up off the floor when we were supposed to "roll up" but I will get there...lol
So I arrived home while WH was putting S to bed. I was getting myself an ice cream cone when he came downstairs and filled me in on the night. I went to the living room and he followed. He hung out for another 15 minutes and during this time said he noticed I recorded some real estate shows. I remembered them as home improvement shows, but sure enough, when I went to check the DVR they all had some words in the title like "sell" "real estate" "moving" haha! I just said that there were some remodeling tips I wanted to see (true). He didn't mention the sci fi show I had recorded! But at least he noticed the DVR which means it's a good idea for me to intentionally record certain shows.
He also told me that I didn't need to keep recording "Chuck" because he knows I don't really like it, right? (testing me I think to see if I would be true to myself) I honestly replied that I was looking for new shows and still likes to have that one as a "back up" because I like it "okay."
We also laughed at something about S and then he left. He never asked me what class I was taking even though I have only told him I was taking a class--never said what. And I leave the house fully dressed, not in work out clothes.
I felt it was a success-that he at least commented on the good smell, music, TV, we laughed (like old times)!
So today I didn't see him but he sent his usual text asking how S slept and I reported then complimented him on the good idea to give him a little more formula to tide him over until 5 a.m.
In the afternoon he sent another text inquiring about S. I managed to tell him and then slipped in a comment about how sweet it is when S lights up every time he sees him. He replied "he does the same for you!"
Now tomorrow I will be watching the sci fi show when he arrives, will wear a new blouse I bought, will leave the new bra out on the washing machine, and will be working out then gone for at least 5.5/6 hours. S and I will leave at 2 for our class; usually WH stays till 3:30 but we are kicking him out early tomorrow and next Wed for our class, haha!
My goals include being mysterious, physically distant, and my Art of Seduction goals are the same as well as appeal to his senses, be charming and mirror his interests (but I am only doing the interests that I share as well because I don't want to be phony or insincere).
Well today's plan isn't working the way I planned...He arrived 30 minutes earlier than normal so I didn't have the show on. I was still half asleep and needed to wake up with coffee so I played on the laptop for 45 minutes before working out. Then I worked out but he talked to me when I was taking a break.
I am sooo sleepy and no movies were playing in the time frame I need so I have been hanging around the house.
He's going on a "work trip" Feb 11-13 and wanted to make sure I still had a late night on a different night that week. I couldn't help it- I asked him where he was going. He told me. Then added he might have to go again sometime in the next few months. He asked if I had plans that Thurs night and I said yes but I could get his sister to babysit. He asked if I had "set" plans every Thursday or something. I just said "well...that night is Bunco.[true] But I will get a sub or ask your sister to babysit."
He said "oh I didn't realize that it was the second Thursday every month!"
But at least he was inquiring about my plans and I managed to be evasive!
OW's birthday is sometime around now...all I know is that she is an Aquarius so it's between 1/20 and 2/20. And we all know the 14th is V Day which is a Sunday this year. So he very well could be lying to me and going with her somewhere.
So I stayed away only 4 hours; been uploading photos from the camera and watched a little TV- my sci fi show. He didn't ask about it and I didn't say anything! I am not interacting with him although we are in the same room right now!
I am wearing my new pink "romantic style" blouse that is clingy with a plunging neckline and puffy short sleeves). I saw him look me up and down when I came into the room with it on!
Also have on the perfume he likes.I left my new bra out on the washer. Pretty sure he saw it because he did a load of laundry for S's clothes!
S and I will be going to our signing class in 20 minutes.
Newmama - you are so methodical! I'm impressed!!! I think I'll get the book. I'm wearing a mustard yellow blouse just like yours right now, and then going out w/friends for dinner tonight. Good Luck!!! Wash that thought out of your mind about OW b-day and V-Day...
Mindfull, I am taking this DB job seriously--by trying to FOCUS my efforts on specific strategies and then monitor results! :-) Glad you think I am being methodical because that is my intention! This could all be for naught but at least I will know I did everything I could think of.
An online friend of mine from another forum was kind of doing what I've been doing since his wife asked to separate in August so she could be with OM. Well, they had been getting along well. Well, yesterday she asks him for a divorce and is steadily moving forward. She said she thought they might as well do it now since they've been "getting along so well!" Of course we both think some event with the OM triggered her because it was so abrupt. My point is I am still hoping for the best but prepared for the worst!
I ordered my V day gifts for myself...satin PJs from V Secret and a 1 lb box of chocolates from See's candy, to be shipped the week of Feb 8.
I will not eat all of the chocolates by myself...or I might take a bite out of each of them until I've eventually tried them all! :-)
Did I mention WH comes through the front door and carries in any packages? (I go through the garage mostly!)
I Love it! How fun!
I was thinking of ordering myself some roses thru Costco.com
Not that he'd see them but he'd hear about it! And I LOVE roses. I deserve roses!
BTW: I am reading AoS too. It frustrates me cuz it reminds me sooo much of OW. Hard to see myself in it.
Whatnow, like I said before, it was very hard reading it at first because I kept seeing OW all over it!! And I felt overwhelmed like how could I compete with a master manipulator like her without sex being a part of the equation. But then I aw that the art of seduction is 90% NON sexual and I thought "maybe..." After that I wondered where I could begin!
It reminded me of how hopeless and overwhelmed I was when it was time to make self improvements. But I started with one area at a time and it became easier.So I decided to do that with this seduction idea...found some approaches that fit me and then found WH's profile in the victim section.Also, tried to remember what I was like when we were dating...ummm...I was just myself and he loved it! But obviously I musy have been more conscientious of my appearance and his needs and was a bit more curious about him, etc.
So today: I will have the smell of the new candle in the house, will have the music on again when he arrives, will wear another new colorful blouse and perfume and lipstick. (I might look a little dressy for belly dancing, LOL!)
I loved that show, "Caprica," by the way! It is unique and timely with the Avatar movie...well they both have virtual reality type technology. I haven't seen Avatar yet. But I still won't talk about the show; he'll see it on the DVR every week!
And next week's meal will be chili in sourdough breadbowls with cheesy lids...one of his favorite meals but we have only had it at home one time before!
Also am working on filling picture frames with S's pics and putting them up. Sigh...another way that WH and I work well together. He takes the photos (very well) and I display them! He never has put the photos in frames but loves to look at them.
interests being mirrored so far this week: music, shows, photos
senses:visual,auditory,scent,taste
Can you point me to the right version of Art of Seduction?
I got something by Robert Greene and it is just unreadable.
Amazon lists a number of books but none of them seemed right.
Thanks!
Hahaha Avermont, YES a lot of the Art of Seduction is hard to get through (i.e. unreadable) But at the end of each chapter lies the meat of how to do each approach! So it is not an easy read but if you scan and then hone in on the tips, it makes it more "doable!" Again, I think sgotx recommended it to me.
Ok, so I had the music on, looked good, the candle scent filled the house, wore the lipstick and quickly left like I was going to be late if I didn't get out of there!
Went to a local pub that I had visited once before. I sat at the bar and ordered a beer and food. (I calculated how much I would need to work out tomorrow and how little I should eat to make up for the meal!) I took out my book and notebook and started taking notes. To my surprise, the waitress asks what I am studying, like it's for a class! I could have just been honest and said "this is for self enrichment...trying to woo my "husband" but before I could take it back I said "It's for my Philosophy of Love and Sex class!"
She said "Oh, where are you taking it? Is it at BSU?" I just nodded. She asked who my teacher was. I said "Uhhh..." and she said "Oh is it so and so, the really tall and theatrical gay guy?" I just said "yes!" It cracked me up because it was like in the movies or something! You know, where it is unrealistic that a person could crash a party or almost gets caught doing something but then gets away with it by PURE LUCK!
And luckily she never followed up with other questions. So then I ate and drank and read and headed to my belly dancing class. Damn, it was harder than I remembered! But I stuck it out! 7 more weeks to go. After I had some time to kill so I went to another restaurant and ordered a marionberry crumble BUT only ate half. (damn it- it just called my name!) I arrived home almost at 10.Usually it is around 9:30.
WH didn't have much to say other than S' night. I didn't say much. He said he'd be here tomorrow to pick up S.
Oh and my W2 arrived in the mail...he said "this year" we'll file jointly as planned, then split the return and he would just take care of it. Yes, it bothered me but I said "ok, thanks!" (because he is the one filing and doing the work)
And yes, I get tired thinking of all the hard work I am putting forth and wondering if it is worth it. I know we all tend to remember the "rosy times" of our relationship when it ends if we were the ones "dumped." Sure, I could meet another fella. It wouldn't be WH but he isn't perfect. It just sucks that we have a brand new baby together. &^%$##@!)(*&
Newmama, as it's nearly the end of the month. Do you think you have got any closer to your goal of WH returning?
Have you thought any more about your next step?
Hi, P,
I have to do more of being physically distant...meaning longer than what I have managed so far. I just started my classes last week so I want to keep going. And that will be it...be physically gone as much as possible but keep up the mystery and "seduction". I won't be filing for D.
Gosh, newmama, I thought I read a while back they you had a New Years deadline for filing yourself- did I read wrong, did you change your mind?
Personally, I think he is normalizing- he is perfectly content. I mean I think this is what he wanted all along, right? The OW and then for you to be "friends" with him- no discomfort or conflict. Why would he change anything. I think he may not file for D just so the status quo does not change in anyway. He has it too good at the moment. Deep down, I think he knows you still want him.
IMO
Are you trying to wait out the OW and see if she gives up?
Hi, June, thanks for commenting! Yeah in November I thought I would file for D in January. Well I changed my mind to put it simply!
If WH is normalizing, he won't be able to live like this forever! Seriously, he would eventually file for D if that is what he wanted! So I am not worried about the length of time. I just get tired sometimes but it doesn't mean I will be giving up--just being honest.
I am sure he knows I still want him because I haven't filed for D but I don't see how that is a bad thing. In my gut, with my sitch and with him, I think that if he thought I didn't want him then he would "set me free" with a D.
I guess I am waiting out the OW .
Tonight he takes S overnight but returns him at 12 tomorrow. Hopefully he will just drop him off and go but if not, I will tell him that S and I have plans and need to leave.
So I will be looking good tonight to go out and I think I will be on the phone when he walks through the door, "confirming my plans" Actually, next week I have plans but I don't tonight but it is OK! I will exercise and play my wii and just have some time alone in my house but I really will be ok! S will wake up several times I am positive so they won't have a smooth night! And hopefully OW and WH will argue about how to get him back to sleep! hahahaha
Newmama -
Good Luck w/your first overnight w/out your son. Yell if you need us!!!
Oh boy, I hope they are not proponents of the Cry It Out method. Not sure how you feel about that but I personally hate it... just thinking out loud.
Well, WH and I are not fans of CIO! BUT OW is!
Of course she is
Well, it will cause striff b/t them. A baby never makes a relationship easier- that is for sure. Maybe she will wonder if she wants to really be a step-mom. Who knows, maybe she is just waiting for her hubby to get out off jail and your hubby is a filer for the mean time.
People like her are not the best in the ethics and kindness department.
Are you getting IC? Have you thought why you would want him back at this point? He is separating you from your baby! How can you handle that! (I know you have no choice!) I think I would have a heart attack with worry.
I guess I am being a little nosy here.
June, please dont think you are being too nosy! Even the criticism and tough questions are good for me!
Actually, OW's exH has been out of jail for a long time. She divorced him around Christmas of 08. Guess who helped support her during her divorce?
Yes I do wonder about taking him back at this point. But I believe he is still in there somewhere and I believe he believes that he married me for the wrong reasons and he thought she is a better match. So he is selfishly trying to see if he was right. Haha, surely he is questioning his reasoning about now. Her true colors have got to be showing after 10 months!
I want to explain more but will in a little bit...
OK so the other thing is that because we have been seeing one another still as co-parents, it hasn't been out of sight out of mind. So I haven't been able to detach. And we haven't turned into strangers.
In the weird situation he has never shoved OW in my face, has never threatened me with money issues, has consistently been a part of S's life, has helped with the house...My point is that if he had been a big bad bully and/or cruel, I would feel differently. But like I said I know he is in there still.
Last, I have said it before but I'll say it again. Aside from being a poor housekeeper, I know I took him for granted. I was not experienced with relationships and how to maintain them. However, I think if we had talked about our feelings and needs, I would have improved. But we didn't. SO my point is that I wasn't the best wife I could have been and there were times I chose to spend time with my friends instead of him or I chose to just get a card to celebrate our anniversary instead of planning a romantic event. Don't know why. Anyway, no one is perfect. Not to make light of the affair it's just that I made mistakes too.
And last...it all depends IF he wants to reconcile, it will depend on if he is willing to do it the way I need him to...I really need to see that he wants to "fight" for our relationship and he would show this by willingly handing over access to everything, going to counseling, explaining what the hell he was thinking, and apply for a transfer to a different building than OW. I mean I just want to see what happens next, and if he can't do it then so be it....divorce.
Last, I have said it before but I'll say it again. Aside from being a poor housekeeper, I know I took him for granted. I was not experienced with relationships and how to maintain them. However, I think if we had talked about our feelings and needs, I would have improved. But we didn't. SO my point is that I wasn't the best wife I could have been and there were times I chose to spend time with my friends instead of him or I chose to just get a card to celebrate our anniversary instead of planning a romantic event. Don't know why. Anyway, no one is perfect. Not to make light of the affair it's just that I made mistakes too.
Fine, you own that part.... but this would never in a million years even in a tiny way justify his affair. That is all on him. If he was dissatisfied he could:
1. Spoke to you about it
2. Gone to counseling
3. Outright D'ed you from the start
So while he may take out the trash and help you still around the house- it does not make him an upstating guy. It only serves his selfish purpose of having more contact with his son or alleviating guilt. It's not about him being nice to you- it's about him trying to sweep away his guilt and have more access to son.
I'm sorry- I think it is painful to hear it but it's what I believe.
In some weird, obtuse way- he is disrespecting you and using you. Just my thoughts. I always like to add the disclaimer that I could be wrong.
Do people at his work know that he left his wife and baby for her??
In some weird, obtuse way- he is disrespecting you and using you.
Disrespecting, yes, using me? I don't see how?
But the fact is this is my choice to prefer limbo over divorce. They say NC is the "last resort technique" but I would need to modify it so I would be the one to leave the house. Before I couldn't figure out where I could go and now I see I could just take another class! He is here 5 days/week and takes S one day per week. He spends his day off from work here, too, which has puzzled me because
1)OW also gets a day off
2)WH can choose his day off-so why not make it the same as hers and spend it with her?
On his day off, he is here 7:30-3:30 so I have the hardest time filling up my day with things to do not at home. I have been taking S to a sign class that starts at 2:15 so it cuts his visit short! Oh and his day off is Tues OR Wed...
I don't know if his work knows. I never wanted to expose it at work because I just saw that as 1) too low for me to go
2)would be burning all bridges for reconciliation
3)It would not have ended their relationship--nothing against HR policy to date others at work
However, it is highly unlikely that OW has kept it a secret this whole time!
I think his work may know we are separated.
newmama...You are doing a great job. Of course he is disrespecting you! He is having an affair! But you see the bigger picture. You are making the marriage an attractive place to be, and he will reach a point where he won't be able to come up with any more justifications.
Meanwhile you are maintaining your dignity, growing, and finding fulfillment away from him. These are all good things. You are watching carefully the effect of your actions, and will reach a point when NC will be the obvious next step. When you get there, you will know and we will help you figure out how to do that. I don't think you are there yet.
I find your DBing inspiring.
Thanks Whatnow...I know A of S is not a DB technique but it is my "something different" for now. And I do know I have room to grow! You are right...I will get to the point when I am ready for NC. I'm still proud of myself for staying away more than I was.
You know, my therapist back in the spring suggested I try to compete with OW! At the time I was 7 months pregnant so we both knew that was out of the question then. But now it seems like that is what I'm doing!At least using the silly seduction techniques in addition to the domestic duties makes it more fun!
I see the AoS stuff as fun. The ideas are not so far off from DBing, not really. And it is a growth area....why not practice on H, so your ready if he does end up shoving you back on the market! I am enjoying reading it, but for now I am glad to be dark...we had too much chaos....I could not maintain my composure as well as you! That requires extraordinary strength.
ooops...meant to comment on the competition thing. OW is competing with YOU. She is only one tiny piece of his pie. You and sweetbaby have the rest. Have you read "Why we Love" by Helen Fisher? It isn't about affairs, but rather describes What happens to the brain in love, attachment, etc. Daniel Amen has also written about this. In love feelings may feel stronger but attachment is much deeper and stronger. If we wait while that "in love" feeling wears off, his attachment to OW will pale in comparison. Don't worry about competing. That work is already completed!
In love feelings may feel stronger but attachment is much deeper and stronger.
So this explains why I am also still attached to HIM!
I thought I remember Helen Fisher saying that our "in love" chemicals go away after 2-4 years because evolution wise, men stayed with women 4 years; until the kids could start to "take care of themselves." Then the men would leave to go impregnate another woman and "spread their seed (DNA)" LOL!
I think men have come along way since then! :-)
I remember it this way:
"Inlove" can last a few days to 18 months, but up to many years when there are barriers to the relationship (thus 180, let them go, don't be a barrier)
And the dopamine high is replaced by an oxytocin/vasopressin "high" that fosters pair bonding, in a secure relationship. If the guy is a cad he'll go off to impregnate another but most likely will re-impregnate #1.
Now I'm starting to confuse myself, I'd better stop!
I'm getting all kinds of weird visuals from this thread!
Hahaha! Wow, Whatnow, you know your stuff!
Mindfull, I know- spreading seed is pretty gross! lol
Okay so WH picked up S. He said "Mommy is sure going to miss you like crazy." (guilt)
He "let" me hold S a little while (guilt), but I was thinking "Come ON already--take him so I can get this over with!"
Then he lingered a bit, collecting some overnight stuff. He said
"well, try to relax a lot and we'll be back tomorrow before you know it!" (guilt)
I was decked out but damn it-no lipstick! Couldn't find it in time! Oh well.
I also tried to look a mixture of calm and cool but a uncomfortable because I DON'T WANT WH to think "oh good- she is eager to get out over here. See? She can have a break by me taking him overnight."
Now after they left it hit me...first night without S. I SHOULD have made real plans! But I definitely will for next week. So I decided to stage my place to make it look like I had a couple of friends come over...you know, "ladies" night? In my mind, we would have gone out, then returned for some cocktails and snacks.
(again, I will have to make this a reality in the future!)
So I sliced up a bunch of limes, set up 3 glasses with straws, squeezed the limes into the glasses and am making a tiny batch of nachos. Now I won't be eating the nachos because last night I pigged out, but I will set them up on some plates and then put them down the garbage disposal. There will be evidence tomorrow of drinks and snacks! Well I will need to clean up mostly but I will leave some of the remnants out.
Sigh...I might have to actually drink the 3 margaritas. Oh the sacrifice!
Seriously this is a lot of work and it would be way better to have had real plans instead! Lesson learned!
Oh yeah and I had the perfume on and was holding S a lot so some got on him! take THAT OW!
good job!!! 3 margs!!!
with the perfume thing...Whenever I was away from my babies I would leave a "Mommy blankie" covered with my scent to help calm baby. Pack one in the diaper bag!!
I got a text from WH this morning telling me that S woke several times throughout the night until 2, then he gave him a bottle and he slept to 7. Well I hope S will get back on track by tomorrow!
So I replied 2 hours after he sent the text and said "ok,thanks!"
When he arrived with S, I was soooo happy to see my baby boy! He was happy to see me too! I had left the dishes in the dishwasher but left the door open like I do sometimes. Also had just made myself brunch (roasted asparagus w/ side of dijon mustard, 2 fried eggs sunny side up, sourdough toast)
WH sat down on the sofa and chatted about how S did, etc. and he said he wasn't used to his sleep sounds, so he never could sleep well because he kept hearing S on the monitor. S woke up every half hour at first. Then WH says "I want to talk to you about something." My stomach dropped but I kept a straight face and said "okay."
He says "what do you think about S sleeping on his tummy now that he's older?" LMAO! You can imagine I thought he was going to bring up D talk! Well we talked some more about S' classes. Then I was playing with S and WH still sat there, watching us with a look on his face. ???Maybe best described as a look of "wonder?"
Again, I am thinking "LEAVE already!" but S started getting fussy for a nap so he finally did leave, saying "OK I'll see you tomorrow, S" "well I'll get going" "Oh I bought turbo tax so just give me your docs and we'll see how much money we really get from getting to claim a kid" "Well I'm heading out of here" "OK I'll see you guys tomorrow!" "Have a good night" (said in a tiny voice) . Maybe he was here about 20 minutes but it felt like an hour!
I was saying in response "Ok we'll see you tomorrow!" "Ok, bye!" "Have a good night too!"
Now I am expecting him to bring up taking "a day off" from coming over since he used to not come on Fridays.
Newmama -
You are quite the planner! LoL The marguarita's, etc... Haha
Poor baby waking up, but POOR DADDY WAKING UP! Haha
You sound really good. Good job w/letting Daddy parent, as well.
OK so I baked cookies and made a fresh pot of coffee about 45 minutes before WH arrived...so the house would smell great!(I knew he wouldn't eat the cookies..but I ate 2! yumm- oatmeal chocolate chip raisin butterscotch chip)
So when he arrived he mentioned this baby catalog and recommended I look through it. I did and commented on various things. Then I saw an earache/ear inspector thingy. I said "look what they have!" and showed him and he said "Oh yes, I thought of you when I saw that!" (because I am so worried that S will have an earache but won't complain and then I won't know until it is very infected and he will be in excruciating pain!)
Well after about 30 minutes I picked up my butt and started working out. Then I went to the store to pick up photos and the usual...sigh....am getting so bored of going to the store every freakin Sunday!!!
Oh and WH was really sick with a cold. I offered to go another time so he could leave and rest but he said no but thank you. I commented on his sickness (TLC) several times and offered advice for taking care of the cold, etc.
So anyway when I returned I saw a draft of February's calendar. I saw that on Superbowl Sunday he wrote 9-2 and then Valentine's day was blank. So he would be gone Feb 11, 12, 13 AND 14? That doesn't seem like him....he won't be able to stay away that long from S.
Well I expected him to mention the calendar to me but next time I walked past the entry table, it was gone. Guess he is going to confer with OW about things! Maybe he will ask to take S overnight on Feb 13 and return the 14th!?
Oh and I was talking to my friend and explaining how I am busy 2 of the 3 nights he would be here during the dinner hour. She said she thinks it's good to keep 1 night of dinner and then save up conversation topics for that night. She said even with her husband, things are so hectic with the kids that she saves up topics. She said it also can be boring many nights so they have one night for sure (not a date night--don't know why) that she is sure to have meaningful and interesting conversation.
So I think that is good....also part of seduction too.
I don't have anything that great to report today regarding actions on WH's end. I did wear a colorful blouse,tight jeans and was laying on my side facing S but had my back to WH for the last 5 minutes he was here...a good view of my curves I would say! ;-)
should I ask him if he could take S on Superbowl Sunday because I was invited to a party? I could find one for sure!
or I could just tell him that hi sister will be watching S for me so I could go to a party so we need to leave by 1...
I like option #2 but would like opinions! thank you!
Also had another idea but want opinions...I am looking for a toybox for S. I thought of maybe making one.
Do you think it would be a good idea if I involved WH in this? He could build it and I would paint it. We could go together to the home improvement store to get the supplies.
I realize this is a little opposite of me being distant so I wanted to ask. But I was thinking it could be a bonding opportunity or something... ????
Otherwise, I would try to make it myself (seriously I am not good with measuring wood, using the power saw, assembling. But I could give it a shot)
You might mention to him that you were thinking of the need/project ...make it his idea???
I like the party idea newmama. kinda seems to be saying you have a life outside of him.
thank you nsw and whatnow!
So if I were to make it his idea,he knows I am looking for one but haven't found one I like yet. I guess I could bring it up on Tuesday night over our steaks and grilled potatos w/ green onion & bacon...something like "man, I like the idea of a wooden toybox with his name but it is so expensive! Does wood really cost that much? Geesh!" (the toyboxes are $139-159 from what I've found so far, truthfully!)
I'll bet there is one online that can be personalized and is uber expensive that you could show him (Pottery Barn kids maybe). Give him the opportunity to say "I could do that" and you can say "and I can paint it, and we could put sweetbaby's handprints on it every year!"
oh, good idea, whatnow! I will totally look for one online and show him!thank you!
Well, last night went fine...I heated up some sourdough breadbowls, put garlic-butter on the "lids" and added cheese and baked til bubbly, then filled with reheated homemade chili.
I ate some and left for my class. (yes, I still cooked but purposely didn't eat with WH) The pilates class kicked my core, then I returned and WH had just put S to sleep. He hung out for 10 minutes then left. He has this terrible head cold.
Before he left, we both laughed a few times while watching the end of this corny sci fi movie and it felt good.
He really liked the dinner and told me he put the leftovers in the fridge because he wants to eat it when he comes over on his day off! So that was a compliment to me.
Before I left for my class, I heard him bustling around in the garage. Then I saw he put the very same gift box of crown whiskey that I got him for Christmas on the entry table--apparently he had hid it in the garage instead of taking it with him! Come on, he could have lied and told OW that he bought it at the liquor store because it was a good deal. In the past, he would do that(buy the gift sets) so it is realistic. Maybe she got him the same gift box? who knows but I think it's amusing that he didn't take it! Also, makes me wonder what he did with the "I Love Daddy" picture frame w/ photo of S. I will be giving him copies of photos of S but I won't waste my money on frames again, LOL!
I remember my divorced parents giving each other Christmas gifts from my younger sisters like the frames and they both had significant others....so I honestly thought it was appropriate to give WH. Oh well.
So tonight I'll be making dinner(using the grill...something I have now done 2x in my life! WH used to do it) and bringing up the toybox project. I'll try to see if I can get him to "come up" with the idea but am ready to suggest it myself if needed.
My next goals are to plant the herbs, continue mirroring interests, and get him to talk about himself (VERY hard anyway, but especially with the current sitch!)
Also, I am adding a self improvement goal of not interrupting and BEING COMFORTABLE WITH SILENCE in conversations! I have procrastinated on these 2 goals forever because they are very hard for me. Please understand I love to listen to other people talk, but if they are slow talkers then I kind of take control of the conversation.
Oh and today I added more pics to the memory card for the digital picture frame he set up for me earlier. It might be easy for others, but this was kind of tricky for me, so I was proud! Also I think it will surprise WH.
Oh yeah I ordered a belly dancing DVD that got great reviews so I can practice at home! Next week I will let on about that... just to show another surprise. He still hasn't asked me about my Monday night class and I haven't told him, so maybe he'll thin that is when I'm taking the belly dancing and Thursday nights can remain a mystery!
So tonight I had the music playing when WH came home-actually it is nice to be able to listen to music again. I mean songs that we used to listen to together. I realize that I didn't play my ipod due to triggering so it makes me feel strong to be able to hear the songs again! (I was listening to the radio but you can always change the station)
He commented on the picture frame I put up by the front door and said it looked good. He didn't say anything about the digital frame though!
So, I worked out and then started the grill and proceeded to make dinner. I did bring up topics of conversation and he responded, but WH is just not a big talker! Still, we watched TV and commented back and forth. I didn't get a chance to bring up the toybox project but he will be here all day tomorrow so I can work it in then.
WH liked the dinner (I did ask his advice about how long to grill the steaks and he was right)and then he cleaned up the kitchen after he put S to sleep.
He also "shared" duties for S with me. He handed him to me to hold while he did stuff, he asked if I could feed him while he ate dinner. It was just kind of a first. I wondered if this is what parents who are married and have a baby do. Don't worry, I did not read into it. I just "enjoyed" the teamwork!
He did leave right at 8, just like last night.
Oh yeah- I discovered that he put the glasses that came with the gift set in the dishwasher, so I put them in the cupboard.
WH will be making it easier for me to avoid him this month...
First, my superbowl party invite idea backfired...he just said he could watch S and would pick him up and return him later. I should have waited until the day of, saying I got last minute plans to go!
But he wants to take S overnight on the 13th, so IF he really is going on a business trip, he won't have a night alone with OW for 3 nights straight and the night he does return, they will have a crying baby to deal with!
He will be taking a day off each week, Tuesday. Used to be Friday before he started taking S overnight.
Because of my classes, I will be busy Mon and Thurs nights.
For the next 2 weeks, he will not be at the house on Sunday.
He will still be here on Wednesday days but now that my baby sign class is over, I can go back to working out, then going to lunch and a movie.
WH Nights here: Mon and Thurs (I have class both nights)
WH Days here: Wed and Sun (I work out then run errands)
So I still want to cook something on Mondays to prove my cooking is here to stay(remember I have only been cooking for 3 months out of all the time he has known me)BUT will leave it on the stove for him to eat alone while I go to class!
Today I did talk to him about building a toy box. He seemed partly interested, partly concerned with how much work it would entail. So I will drop it for awhile and then see if he brings it up!
I was hoping he would bring coffee and he did!He also offered to cook me breakfast but I said No thanks. I stayed rather busy most of the time but did watch S when he had to have a work meeting over the phone (I witnessed it- he was telling the truth)
Oh and my VS package arrived-am wearing my new PJs right now!
Newmama -
OK, so, I went to three different grocery stores... no bread bowls! Where did you get them? I want to make chili this weekend, and your dinner sounded devine!!!
Your H is a good Daddy. I can see you're proud of that.
Now if he could be a good H! Wash that skank right outta your life!!!
Which PJ's did you get? I just got some cute pink/purple boxer shorts (Kalni's idea) that had been backordered for a month!!
buy a round loaf of bread and cut it out...
Yes, Cutter is right! I should have said they were round sourdough bread loaves! But I got them in my bakery at my local grocery store.
My PJs actually have tons of red "squished" V like hearts with drawstring bottoms and a button up long sleeved collared top!
I also got to wear my new lingerie....vava VOOM!
So last night's belly dancing went really well! The teacher even complimented me on a move I did! (HUGE because as I've said before, I am NOT coordinated)
My baby boy is still very sick with his terrible congested cold :-( so we just stayed home yesterday and will today too.
But yesterday I planted my herbs and made a HUGE pot of "turkey" veggie soup using the turkey carcass from Thanksgiving that I stuck in the freezer.
So today I need to find another project...I really am loving these projects! Maybe putting the rest of the photos in albums or in mini frames? Cleaning out some junk drawers?
Can't wait for my belly dancing DVD to arrive!
Now before I left last night, I was a little worried (of course) about S. But WH just assured me that he would be okay and to have a good time. SO I stayed out but not as late as normal because I was anxious to be home and care for him!
And tonight WH takes him overnight again, but this time I have plans to stay the night at my friend's house (married with kids). I used to do this before I was married--would just drive down in horrendous traffic and then spend the night and we would
just stay in and play games and drink beer! So it will be strange to do it again. But good at the same time....thank God for my friends!
Have fun tonight newmama! Reconnecting with your friends and doing the things you used to do is great. Get in touch with who you used to be before M. Just be you without the identity of being M. It's saved me. Thank God for my friends too.
Can't wait to hear about your weekend.
well S wasn't getting better. So on Saturday a.m., WH texts me to say he had a rough night with S and had him sleeping upright so he could breathe. He wasn't drinking formula but was drinking pedialyte. "He's ok" he said. ?!? I don't think so!
So I texted back that I would be staying home from the superbowl party and could he visit him 9-2 like original plan? He said let's see how he is tomorrow a.m. but I think he'll be fine (to take him 1-6!)
Well I decided that with or without WH's blessing, I was taking him to urgent care. When WH arrived with him, I told him. He asked why and I told him S wasn't getting better after 5 days, and I was worried he had an ear infection. He laughed and said "he DOESN'T" have an ear infection. Well I couldn't help it, I glared at him. Then he said "of course I might have to eat my words..."
Well WH said he would follow us to Urgent Care and leave from there. When we arrived there was a 90 minute wait! So all 3 of us walked around a nearby crafts store for a little bit, then I said S and I would be fine if he needed to go.
So he left, BUT I forgot ny cell phone! I assured him I would call him when we got home or use the clinic's phone.
When we were finally seen, sure enough he had an ear infection and bronchiolitis, probably due to RSV. She gave him breathing treatment and antibiotics. I used the phone to call WH and got his voicemail.
When we FINALLY got home, it was at 4:30; 3.5 hours later! I quickly started to feed S and saw WH's texts. One said that he got my message and that he guesses it was good we went in-never second guess mother's intuition. The other one was at 4 and said "please call me when you get home to tell me how it went"
So I called him and filled him in and assured him that we just got home so I didn't get a chance to call sooner. S was screaming in he background. I was trying to get off the phone but WH kept asking more q's and was feeling soooo guilty for not knowing S needed to go in as well as not being there, I think!He agreed to just come over in the a.m.
All night S tossed and turned. When WH arrived, he brought some things I had asked for as well as other stuff for S. He told me to go and sleep! So I tried and stayed upstairs for 3.5 hours. I came down after getting ready and got on my laptop in another part of the house. Man, WH just kept talking to me!
WHAT? HE LEFT? Where did he go?
Man, WH just kept talking to me!
You know what that is newmama, don't you?
At one point, WH said "when you go back to work, I will still keep S on my insurance so he is double covered."
Also "If you need, I can see if I can get home early from work so you can have a break"
Then"I can take him Tuesday night so you--" I interrupted and said "No!" He tried to explain that he wants to help take care of S because he sees how hard I am working and he wants me to get some sleep, too.
Gee, I have the perfect idea for how to arrange that!!
But I assured him that since I am at home and not working, I could handle being sleepy during the day. I also assured him that I know he would take really good care of him, but I just want to be near him. He said he understood.
Well then he leftas I was rocking S to sleep.
GUILT GUILT GUILT
Today I am tired of DBing!!!! I want to take a break! There is no end in sight! But like I said, this month,he will be here but I will be gone so I get a break from seeing him and from DBing.
In fact, I could even not cook dinner this week at all! WH would not think I was doing it on purpose.
Originally Posted By: newmama
So he left
WHAT? HE LEFT? Where did he go?
Quote:
Man, WH just kept talking to me!
You know what that is newmama, don't you?
I don't know where he went...probably to OW! I was surprised that he left since he is so attached to S!
And I am guessing that he was talking to me because of guilt for S? Is that right?
I don't know where he went...probably to OW! I was surprised that he left since he is so attached to S!
You are surely winding me up? He didn't go to work, a fire, or something just as important? He went back to OW? You are effing kidding me?
So, his son is ill. Ill enough to have to be taken to hospital? Yeah? And he ... errr ... decides that it's not that serious, as of course he is a Doctor and leaves?
I'm sorry Newmama. If my daughter was ill. Even if it was a minor 'ear infection' (which is what you thought it was at the time) I'd have stayed to make sure he was okay.
I remember one time that D's mum called me and told me D was in hospital and I went up the wall as she left it until after everything had been done. I was all set for driving 300 miles to make sure I could be with her when she woke up (she had split her head falling on a plant pot). THAT'S what a dad does. F me.
And I am guessing that he was talking to me because of guilt for S? Is that right?
LOL ... Yeah. Guilt. Guilt. Guilt. As you said.
I actually did have a lot of time for you WH. I thought maybe he was just confused but I've suddenly realised, he is slightly more than that and needs a kick up the backside.
Really. Kids come first First. First. End of story. When he grows up and stops playing Call Of Duty with OW and realises that then maybe he can be a good dad and influential person in S's life.
Truly sickened newmama. Truly.
P, I wasn't horrified that he left. I did tell him he didn't have to wait there with us. And I did talk to 2 other moms alone ith their babies. But you are right--very selfish. Luckily he isn't a total deadbeat dad so I was not as upset about it, really. And based on the guilt he demonstrated I think he knew it was wrong.
But aside from all that, it was wrong for him to not be there, plain and simple.
I have been being distant and look forward to doing it every day this week...just like NC, it gets easier each day it is accomplished, kwim?
P, I wasn't horrified that he left. I did tell him he didn't have to wait there with us.
Of course you did. That's woman speak for 'I need you to be here but I don't want to tell you that'
He should have been there - plain and simple as you said. As long as he recognised that - we all screw up.
I have been being distant and look forward to doing it every day this week...just like NC, it gets easier each day it is accomplished, kwim?
NC get's easier day by day by day. Then it get's harder and harder and harder ... then it get';s easier and easier and easier ... get the pattern. One of the hardest things I ever did. It worked for me though ... not for the M.
WTH... yeah, he is feeling guilty. Looks like he's pretty comfortable with the situation and not feeling like he has to do much anymore. But after realizing how sick S is, it got to him. Too late. Ugh... sorry you are having to deal with it all on your own.
Hope your S gets better soon.
Today I am tired of DBing!!!! I want to take a break! There is no end in sight! But like I said, this month,he will be here but I will be gone so I get a break from seeing him and from DBing.
Your love bank sounds like it's getting to be overdrawn. I think this is when you need to do a lot of thinking on what to do next. For me that was the turning point. My lovebank got bone dry. I'm detached and don't want him anymore. Tired of banging my head on a brick wall. I'm looking elsewhere.
You've done this AoS for a bit and what reaction have you seen? You've been DBing for quite a while and what progress have you seen? I think he's
somewhat guilty about S, but what about you? Has there been any steps towards R? What is working or is this just limbo?
Hopefully by you not seeing him and your break from DBing, YOU will get stronger and focus on newmama. You will get your love bank filled with other things, friends, having fun, etc. Get to the point where you are happy without him. If he decides to finally open his eyes and want be a husband, great--if he doesn't, fine. You will survive... you are right now. He has it too easy right now IMHO. Just seeing this from my PVO.
(((newmama)))
NC get's easier day by day by day. Then it get's harder and harder and harder ... then it get';s easier and easier and easier ... get the pattern. One of the hardest things I ever did. It worked for me though ... not for the M.
Same here... so carefully consider whether NC is working in your sitch. Seems like he's responding by distancing himself too. It didn't work for my M either... only for me.
Sounds like I'm contradicting my previous post, but I just want to point out that I think you are at a crossroads in your DB tactics.
NC either saves or kills your M. I don't think it killed my M, but it ended the torture ... take from that what you want
Before going NC carefully consider it. You could destroy the very thing you want to save.
Newmama:
Poor baby boy!!!
It's rough being a first time mom!!! I remember when D18 was just born. I had her at the ER like five times in her first year! Ha!
It's funny, now, when there's hint of an ear infection or strep or anything requiring the "pink stuff," I just make the appt immediately... The sooner they start, the sooner it's over!!!
Guilt is right, w/the H! Sheesh!!! And, what does he think he's a Pediatrician, now? SMACK!
So, I'm w/ya, girlfriend. We are officially partners in DARKLY AS YOU CAN BE (w/you having him in your home so much, and my H still being at home!).
Are you in the alt?!?! Lots of us are... I can keep an eye on ya better, there... LoL
Come on, friend! I'll hold your hand! We can do this!
PS - Hey, NEWMAMA!! You'll be proud of me! I made regular chili and white chicken chili today, and GUESS WHAT I DID!?!?!? Ok, I'll tell ya... I actually made the round sourdough bread bowls in my breadmaker! Good Lord! It was amazing!
Whoa, Mindfull, good idea to make the bread yourself...and I'm intrigued by white chicken chili-YUMM!
I'm not in the alt yet. I mean I have an FB page but haven't joined the DBers group...it seems like a lot to juggle right now but I will one day!
About going darkER, here is what I am feeling more capable of doing:
-WH arrives, I greet him and leave. No dinners! (I have a q about that)
-AND/OR: WH arrives. I greet him and then head straight to working out, cleaning up, leaving for errands
-my demeanor will be same: friendly
So, mindfull madame, what will your actions look like?
p17- PLEASE expand on how NC could hurt my sitch more--what about the actions I listed above? And you are right, IMO, that NC did NOT kill your marriage!! W is killing it!
DBD I think I know what you mean...is this right:
my current DB tactics are not pulling us closer to R, I am having trouble detaching plus my lovebank is drying up, so I should consider doing something different, although NC may not be the answer?
oh my question about not cooking the dinners...how do you suggest I transition out of that?
One idea is to still cook but leave it on the stove, another is to put it in tupperware containers as Cutter suggested loooong ago (I am slow!) or do I just not cook at all?
And what do I say about it? Thank you!
OK, so, is he always there during dinner time??? And, how often?
If it's only one or two days a week... why don't you make your nice dinners the nights he is NOT there, and maybe just heat up left overs the nights he is there, and just let him know there's plenty, without all the hype of a NICE, WELCOMING dinner...
Although, I'm torn on this one... Don't take my advice, just consider it, and weigh other ideas coming in. I give AWFUL advice!!!
Moi?
My H talks non-stop. He gets that fix from me... So, I actually started last weekend:
-- I'm only INITIATING conversation w/him if it's required re: kids or house
LAST WEEK
-- If/ WHEN he initiates conversation w/me, I am pleasant, cheerful, and I answer.
DURING THE WEEK WHEN HE WAS TRAVELING
-- No txts or calls FROM me.
THIS WEEKEND
-- He seriously pissed me off w/the raising of his voice, and being short w/me. I mean, seriously, jackload, I'm about as good as it gets, and I'm still being committed to you while you're being KING jackload, so back off! OK - Whew! That felt good. Sooooooooooo, this weekend, he's getting shortened answers if he initiates, and if he starts on a whole story, or something that looks way too friendly... like he just needs to hear himself, I excuse myself, nicely. (Oh, the laundry just stopped! Is that someone at the door? There's that txt I was waiting for!)
No more feeding his LL, when he doesn't f'ing know I have one.
Ok, done.
Oh, hey, also, some of us just made a diff DB FB page to use w/all of us, and it's all confidential and not for public viewing.
White Chicken Chili - YUM - Amazing!!
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/all-a...cipe/index.html
I used to cook 2-3 nights, then I started taking an evening class so it became 1-2, but this Tuesday is the last TUEDAY NIGHT he'll be here.So his nights will be Mon and Thurs, both which I have class!
Mindfull, TERRIFIC changes you are making--one week down, ?? to go! but starting it is the hardest as we know!!
Hey newmama, you've been hanging in there for a long time. I admire you for that, it can't be easy DBing and beginning your mothering journey at the same time. Wishing you strength...
newmama,
Sorry you don't get much traffic, as you say. I never come over to this forum. Will do so, occasionally now to check up on you.
So many posters, so little time.
So, anyway, I thought I'd bring my answer to your question at nsw's thread in Newcomers over here to your home.
newmama, Gardener, nsw and other men, would you please respond to this q? (please excuse the t/j!!!but you get tons more traffic than my forum :-) ))
It is true that women are attracted to strong, confident men. Needy men are a turn off.
Now something I have been wondering for months:
Is the above the same for what men like in women? Because I see a lot of men on the DB forum who enjoy rescuing or taking care of women.
3) Let's differentiate between "taking care of a woman" and "rescuing a woman." I believe a man should take care of his woman and that women have every right to expect this of their men.
4) Many men actively seek out women to "rescue" either because they, themselves, are somehow "damaged" or are simply control freaks (or both). And they will spend the rest of their lives "rescuing" this woman, wondering why - and often hoping that - the woman never does "get" - or "stay" - rescued. Because this is not true "rescuing", i.e., "lifting her up" and facilitating her healing but, rather, a means to keep her perpetually down (and, therefore, him perpetually up) and under control.
While, in my opinion, the word codependent is too often misused and over-used, this kind of perpetual rescuing is truly toxic codependency.Now, newmama, you've learned two things:
a) My answer to your question. And,
b) Never ask the always-long-winded Gardener a question of that scope!
_________________________
with the increasingly-rare attribute - and gift - of femininity.
Gardener, thanks for stopping by and answering my q! As for the statement above,
I am 20 years younger than you and do not see femininity going away...I see more women gaining financial independence, expecting men to know how to cook and share household duties...
but women STILL want and be confident and strong, to
offer to pay for the date (although I suggest splitting it on the first few), open the door, call first, and tell us we look pretty !
Also, am I right that there seem to be more WAW scenarios on the DB forums than WAH?
I see formulas given to the men that all sound the same:
NC+GAL+date other women.
When male vets suggest to the women "this is what worked for me"
I think, yeah, because women won't fly off the handle if their estranged H dates, they will just feel territorial and curious!They will be reminded that their H is desirable, and the act of dating is "confident" behavior. But men would want to kill the other guy and then their egoes would be crushed by their W (right?)I do not mean this to sound sexist; but there are some clear differences between the sexes.
I have run into several female sitches where we are afraid to NC and date for fear of pushing WAH away/into D.
Seriously am thinking of 6 other sitches besides my own right now,
oops I meant to say women still want men to be confident and strong!
Newmama, i've been following your posts for months. i am astoinished at how you keep it together with h and ow and being around you son.
personal question, did you let your h in the delivery room? if so how in the world did you not loose your temper giving birth in pain to this man's son who is carrying on with someone else.
im in similiar boat and this will be h and my 2nd child together. he left us in nov me in high risk preg with 2 yr old working etc etc. i've been in and out of hospital through pregnancy and h not supported me or d.
now it's come time for me to deliever planned csection and there is no way possible to have him in there with me. i am still as angry as i was in nov. i would not be able to relax with him there and his excuses.
i'd have to agree with p17, h may be there when things are going well for son but a true test of love for children is when they are in crisis. h made a stupid choice his selfishness over his son. sadly being married before i've seen it with my older d, now 18. dad choosing ow over daughter. i hope that's not the case but...
newmama,
I am 20 years younger than you and do not see femininity going away...I see more women gaining financial independence, expecting men to know how to cook and share household duties..
.
Oh, yeah? Well, I'm twenty years older than you, always held open doors and car doors, did most of the cooking and a hell of a lot of "household" (read: roommate) duties!
So there!
btw: what's "t/j"?
newmama,
Also, am I right that there seem to be more WAW scenarios on the DB forums than WAH?
I see formulas given to the men that all sound the same:
NC+GAL+date other women.
NC+GAL=You're still married!When male vets suggest to the women "this is what worked for me"
I think, yeah, because women won't fly off the handle if their estranged H dates, they will just feel territorial and curious!They will be reminded that their H is desirable, and the act of dating is "confident" behavior. But men would want to kill the other guy and then their egoes would be crushed by their W (right?)I do not mean this to sound sexist; but there are some clear differences between the sexes.
I have run into several female sitches where we are afraid to NC and date for fear of pushing WAH away/into D.
Seriously am thinking of 6 other sitches besides my own right now,
Hang in there. Nice to "meet" you and talk to you tonight, nm.
I feel a little bad trying to point out the difference between the sexes and our DBing efforts...I guess it comes down to trying to detach and then make self improvements and deciding if you want to stay with your H or W or BF/GF etc. If you do, then you watch and monitor results to see if their behavior changes as a result of your changes. If you don't want to stay you just let them file for D or you file for D.
So sorry about the rant!
Jstar, yes, I allowed WH with me in delivery. BUT there are WHs out there who are 1) cheating AND 2) being jerks toward their BWs. Then there are WHs out there who are 1) cheating and 2)acting "civil" toward their BWs which is how my WH has been the whole time.
If he was not into being a dad, then I would have just filed for D and looked for someone else to be a father like another poster on here told me she did (was it ravenly??)
So that is why I let WH in (and I was hoping it would bond him to our S because I was unsure if he would totally freak out and walk away since he was capable of cheating on me--I didn't know what to expect).
Gardener, I pointed out my age difference to explain that I think femininity is still around...including the younger generations of women!
Believe me, I am not age-ist and if I do get divorced, will open my "pool" to men in their 40's...BUT NOT younger than me! My mom has told me that sometimes when men hit their 50s (NOT IN YOUR CASE, Gardener!!), they "resign" to an "old man life" and act older than they are! I don't know if this is true but it made me laugh when she said it. 50 is the new 35, right? :-)
OK so I woke up with S in the middle of the night and it dawned on me that DUH of course WH is going somewhere with OW!
You see 1) he said is going to a city that is only 1 hour by airplane 2) he has never been on a work trip where he stays the night on Friday! 3) When he and I used to go places, we would often do a Thurs-Sat because the airline and hotel rates are cheaper.
So it doesn't make a difference, but it just makes me feel satisfied to know the truth... if that makes sense to anyone out there!
And it explains why when he told me and asked if I had plans Thurs night and I said yes, he kind of got this look like he was "thinking" about what I said...like trying to figure out a change in his plans so I could go? (I KNOW it's mind reading, but I like to think of it as FACE reading, LOL!)
When I saw that, I remember thinking why does it matter-can't do anything about a work trip! ANd I said that, too, like "it's okay, you gotta go on your work trip, I'll figure it out!"
And about the cooking--I read more threads last night where the WAS had noticed changes in the LBS but was skeptical if they would last.
SOOOO, Mindfull, I am totally going to do what you are suggesting! Which is still cook on Sunday nights, for me, but it truly does make leftovers. I won't be cooking every day but I still will have fun making these recipes. Then put them in tupperware and offer them to WH on Monday nights.
And I love the chicken chili--will definitely be making that recipe and I saved it under my recipe favorites file!
oh and t/j is "thread jack!"
My next goal for distancing which I forgot about is to only speak when spoken to...this will be sooooo hard for me, a woman who was nicknamed "Motormouth" "chatterbox" "yakkity yak" as a girl growing up! :-)
One day at a time, one week at a time....
Jstar, yes, I allowed WH with me in delivery. BUT there are WHs out there who are 1) cheating AND 2) being jerks toward their BWs. Then there are WHs out there who are 1) cheating and 2)acting "civil" toward their BWs which is how my WH has been the whole time.
Don't forget the 3rd group. BH , becomes WH, and acts civil
p.s. keep the striking age difference to 7 years
Gives you a nice 27 to 40 range...
Us men are basically the same over those years. Dumb and nonobservant
Cutter, I think I remember you making fun of me for making sexist comments in the past
BUT I caught your women=time x money logic equation with final result being women=root of all problems
Are you sure about 27?? I was thinking more 34-47...
My next goal for distancing which I forgot about is to only speak when spoken to...this will be sooooo hard for me, a woman who was nicknamed "Motormouth" "chatterbox" "yakkity yak" as a girl growing up! :-)
One day at a time, one week at a time....
Are we twins? LMAO!!!!
WARNING - This is hard, and not for the faint of heart!
Jstar, yes, I allowed WH with me in delivery. BUT there are WHs out there who are 1) cheating AND 2) being jerks toward their BWs. Then there are WHs out there who are 1) cheating and 2)acting "civil" toward their BWs which is how my WH has been the whole time.
Gives you a nice 27 to 40 range...
Us men are basically the same over those years. Dumb and nonobservant
Niiiiiice!!! Know any? LoL
BUT I caught your women=time x money logic equation with final result being women=root of all problems
Cutter, I saw this, too... In fact, I almost replied...
"Hey, I resemble that comment!"
Originally Posted By: newmama
My next goal for distancing which I forgot about is to only speak when spoken to...this will be sooooo hard for me, a woman who was nicknamed "Motormouth" "chatterbox" "yakkity yak" as a girl growing up! :-)
One day at a time, one week at a time....
Are we twins? LMAO!!!!
WARNING - This is hard, and not for the faint of heart!
Mindfull, I WISH but you are waaaay funnier than me so we couldn't be identical! But I would be honored to be your fraternal twin, LOL!
I know it is hard,which is why I have procrastinated on it for sooo long! here is an example of the daily texts WH sends to check on S:
WH:How did S sleep last night? Is he feeling better?
ME:Well, S woke up every 30-60 minutes between 8 and 3. He drank 2 oz pedialyte. He is less "snotty" and seems to breathe easier. He still has a bad cough, though, and won't drink formula!
WH: Well it sounds like he is slowly getting better! I'll check in later!
I am sure my chattering sounds like the adults in the Peanuts comics..waah waah waww woh woh!
Newmama... Hahaha
OK, let me lead you a bit, since we're of the same mold.
WH:How did S sleep last night? Is he feeling better?
Answer Option #1 - Fine, and Yes.
OR
Answer Option #2 - Y dont u leave the tramp, come home, kiss my as$, and find out for urself!
Seriously, your goal is what I am doing now. Answer when spoken to (nicely), and only initiate conversation when it has to do w/kids, house, logistics... Then, BREAK IT OFF!
I'm not sure if I can tell how it is working, as H is sick right now (wah wah wah), and he's, for the most part, a crab. And, guess who is not offering meds, info, etc... My only piece of advice yesterday. "You need to go to a Dr. for that." (I was tired of all of the questions, and questioning my answers... probably trying to get under my skin for lack of talktalktalking...) He did go to the Dr, and, yes, he has strep throat, just like S12.
GOD HELP ME!
This am, he's crabby, as we had to drop off my car to get get fixed. We're riding together, alone, in his car, and he's attempting conversation after shooting a few minimal zingers... He finally says, "Don't you have any response?" Me, "No, I'm sorry, did you say something? I was thinking about something." Him, "Nevermind!" Then, he was on to another subject, and I just sat there minding my own business, offering only a brief response.
We get home, and he attempts to get me to play a game of backgammon w/him. Me, "OH, I'm sorry, I have to get to work right away this am."
He's not loving this, but not sure if he gets it, or is just now fogged over w/strep fog!
So, my long-winded chatty Kathy response is... you're on the right path (thinking).
Mindfull, VERY GOOD JOB!!I have been trying to avoid sharing trips together in the car to prevent myself from having to tlk to him! The car rides are tough.
And I am sure he is noticing...but it will probably take a looong time for it to sink in.
I have a q- what are you expecting/wanting to happen as a result of limiting conversation? What do I expect/want?
Just wondering how we will measure whether we are achieving "results." Haven't thought that far ahead!
wait...do we want them to engage in more attempts to get our attention? pursuing behavior? through their love languages?
newmama,
Believe me, I am not age-ist and if I do get divorced, will open my "pool" to men in their 40's...BUT NOT younger than me!
Good! My mom has told me that sometimes when men hit their 50s (NOT IN YOUR CASE, Gardener!!), they "resign" to an "old man life" and act older than they are!
Aahh, what does she know? I don't know if this is true but it made me laugh when she said it. 50 is the new 35, right? :-)
Nope. The new 50 is 50 (or 56, in my case). Personally, I feel as young, strong, vibrant, etc. as when I was 35 and in a couple of ways even moreso. True.
It only gets better. Besides, we all kinda forever remain who we were at about 18, deep down, dontcha think?
I have a q- what are you expecting/wanting to happen as a result of limiting conversation? What do I expect/want?
Just wondering how we will measure whether we are achieving "results." Haven't thought that far ahead!
Newmama - Good line of thought, here...
What am I expecting/wanting to happen?
Let's see... be wanted/needed again?
Realistically, I'm expecting to feel better because I'm not "feeding" a person who leaves me "starving," anymore.
Hope that doesn't sound malicious. Because I don't mean it to be...
Realistically, I'm expecting to feel better because I'm not "feeding" a person who leaves me "starving," anymore.
hey, this sounds like a goal for YOU!! gooood point...this is what will help us detach, right? just trying to make ourselves feel better without regard to the H? I'm getting it...
it also is focusing on the present.
Oh, crap, I've actually given someone an Aha Moment! LoL
Hey, I may be slow, but I'll blame it being blonde!
I have a q- what are you expecting/wanting to happen as a result of limiting conversation? What do I expect/want?
- becoming less available therefore more desirable (esp. for us mothers because our Hs get so much access to us because of parenting)
- projecting that you have better things to do and doing them (too busy to talk because I'm GALing!)
- avoiding conflict
You just need a nice 39 year old LOL
47... Out of my range
I have the 32 to 46 range
Cutter, good for you for going 7 years older than yourself!
I am open to nice 39 year olds as long as they move to my state, LOL!! But need to see this M through first, sigh! (LOL!)
Flowmom, I have noticed how good you are at organizing your thoughts!! Thank you, your list sounds right on with the addition of
giving me some peace from the pain of not having desire reciprocated!!
I am[/b] - and I believe most men are - attracted to strong, confident women. For me, I look for that along with the increasingly-rare attribute - and gift - of femininity.
newmama, I agree that most men look for the above. But I also believe that once in an intimate R, strong women can be a problem for men that have unresolved issues with their mothers. I have definitely have my faults, but I've noticed that even after 17 years, H often projects "stuff" onto me that I can only assume come from his experiences with his mother. Most modern men haven't had positive role modeling from their fathers of how to love and share a life with a strong woman. Not saying the above applies to you Gardener, but I think that there are a lot of gender dynamics that are still being worked out in modern Rs.
When male vets suggest to the women "this is what worked for me"
I think, yeah, because women won't fly off the handle if their estranged H dates, they will just feel territorial and curious!They will be reminded that their H is desirable, and the act of dating is "confident" behavior. But men would want to kill the other guy and then their egoes would be crushed by their W (right?)I do not mean this to sound sexist; but there are some clear differences between the sexes.
I have run into several female sitches where we are afraid to NC and date for fear of pushing WAH away/into D.
I think you make a valid point newmama, and I think that this is one of the areas where we might want to be careful about how WAH/WAW strategies might differ. My own experience is that when H and I started out our relationship, it was a long-distance open one (not my first choice, but there were reasons, long story). Although H's other R was was very intense and messy, he had a lot of trouble handling my comparatively much more casual "interactions". Even he recognized that he had a double standard and I think that's partly why he settled into monogamy by choice. BTW, that is ancient history (15 years ago).
ok so I tried my new technique.....don't speak unless spoken to and it was soooo hard! You see, WH texted me to let ne know he was going to come over early to "give me some relief." So I said "thanks, that would be great!" via text.
When he arrived, I was still in pj's but oh well...taking care of S wore me out! The house was clean, though.
I failed a couple of times but then stuck to not initiating.I worked out, got ready and left.
Now I admit that I almost caved on the dinner....I saw frozen spaghettiu sauce, garlic spread, hhoagie rolls, mozzarella cheese, hamburger and thought "meatball subs!" I even went so far as to take he ingredients out.
But then I thought of Mindfull, and how she has stuck to her guns, and I thought of some other theads where the people haven't and the posters replied with "well we can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped" and I thought of myself...I would be disappointed in ME! So I put the ingredients back!
So I never mentioned dinner and WH never brought it up! He did till try to talk to me though, which surprised me! (gee I DON'T have to be responsible for conversation?"
And at the last minute, I decided to "skip" my class beause I was tired and a friend of mine wanted to talk on the phone! So I went to a coffee shop and sat at a table far away and pretended to read the paper while talking on the phone!
I even arrived home a tad later than last Monday!My DB coach advised it's good to not be so routine driven, aka, be unpredictable (also recommended by A of S!)
When I walked in, S was wide awke, the TV was blaring and both WH and S were in good spirits! WH summarized the night and added that he looked up RSV(S' virus) last night online and told me a bunch about it. He also shared what he watched on TV.
So as soon as he left (assuring me he'd check in tomorrow a.m. and hoped S would eat more), S fell asleep instantly, LOL!
I think he was hyper from feeling better+being tired!
I am proud of myself for sticking to not cooking AND not initiating conversation!!!Thank you all for helping--"peer pressure" actually helped give me the motivation to go through with it!
One day down, tomorrow is another day! (ala Daybyday!)
So this morning WH texts me to ask how S slept. I was informative but still wordy (since we are worried about his eating/drinking I need to inform him about that). I said
"S slept until 12, tossed and turned til 2, drank 2 oz formula and some pedialyte,woke at 5 and drank 2 oz formula"
His reply:
"Good! Sounds like he'sgetting there! I know it can be exhausting, but you are a very good mother!"
My reply: Thanks! It's worth it! You're a great dad and take very good care of him."
I know I could have just said "thanks" but I just felt like being honest with my feelings for once, since it isn't really allowed in DBing!
As soon as S isn't sick anymore, my reply will be "he slept pretty good but woke up a few times"
Hey, Newmama!!!
I truly think we are twins in verbosity! (is that a word?)
Glad the little guy is getting better!!! Is he crawling, and/or pulling himself up yet? Soon, you'll have to baby-proof that house!!! He's at a good belly laugh stage, too!!
Oh, I love babies.
Me too, but I couldn't eat a whole one ... sorry, couldn't resist
I can't wait for my 1 lb box chocolates coming TOMORROW!
I ordered a coin skirt for my belly dancing class...silver coins with black silk material.
Mindfull, I totally used too many words, I know, but he texted me again at 3:30 to check on S and I said "he's sleepy, but playing more and eating a little"
that was short for me! I could have been a bitch and said "he's ok"
My S is 7 months old and trying to crawl. He laughs a lot and loooves to eat! so right now it's hard to see him not eating.
My DVD arrived in the mail but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet...maybe tomorrow after WH leaves.
So my A of S technique tonight is showing cleavage, mirroring interests again with music. My DB technique is "don't speak unless spoken to" and cook dinner ahead, put leftovers in fridge.
This is the last Tuesday night he'll be here for dinner...kinda relieved to be seeing less of him (takes stress off of me)
OK mission accomplished...WH assumed my limited talking was because I was "tired!" (which is true, I am) He said "you must be tired, right?" and I said "Yes, I guess I am! Why do you ask?" and he said "Oh you're just a little quieter than usual!"
But I mostly stayed away...he appreciated the leftovers, I worked out, folded laundry before coming downstairs, cleaned up in the kitchen...and he rocked S to sleep and then left!
I saw a red file folder on the entry table with some papers sticking out of them. My heart started beating quickly....but I peeked. I was thinking they could be the DIY divorce papers we started 10 months ago. Turns out they were TURBO TAX forms!
So when WH presented me with a pen and a paper to sign, I did not freak out or bat an eyelash! He said "I made you a copy so you should file your copy somewhere." (ouch-I know it's weird by now that I should still be bothered by references to our "separateness" but it still does bother me!)
So now I wonder if he is waiting for our tax return to file for D? Except that we really were going to do it the cheap way since we both agree on everything....so if he needed even $1000 he could have come up with that by now, right?
Well I have been forcing myself to picture the worst case scenario of losing my baby every other day to c*&tface and WH. And it still makes my heart break and makes me cry thinking of losing S for part of the week every week. Still, if I am ever going to face my fear, I must face the pain.
Why did this [censored] promise me a family, get me pregnant, give me the greatest love of my life (S) only to possibly take him away from me with a divorce? How cruel is that? I realize there are other cases out there, but I am taking a moment to feel sorry for myself. Just a moment.
OK. I took a deep breath. I am switching my thinking back to hopeful.
Tomorrow I will be working out, eating chocolate, and seeing Avatar in 3D (finally!)
WH asked me if I wanted a coffee tomorrow morning when he came over and told me my dinner was delicious.
P - Maybe not whole...
That's all good, but how was the cleavage? LOL
Oh, he noticed the cleavage! ;-)
I kinda think the don't speak unless spoken to thing is childish...like when my dad used to give my mom the silent treatment!
of course I could be saying that because it's soooo hard for me to do!
So far I haven't felt any relief from it though, you know for myself.
Oh, he noticed the cleavage! ;-)
Who does not notice cleavage...
I ate 6-7 of my chocolates and put the rest in the freezer! yikes! they arrived when WH was here. I said "yay! chocolates!" and ate some in front. He cleared his throat but didn't say a word!
Didn't end up going to a movie, but went shopping instead! Bought 2 flattering, sexy tops and some toys for S.
Today WH
-unloaded the dishwasher
-did some laundry
-took out garbage
-offered to make me breakfast
-stocked some sandwich bags
-took care of some recycling stuff
I know, probably guilt related. It is more acts of service though!
Before he left, I told him to have a safe flight and he said "yeah, the company plane is a lot better than commercial so it shouldn't be too bad!"
liar liar pants on fire!
Hey Newmama,
I don't know if others have commented on your slapdash approach to the legal stuff,but I'd like to weigh in on it. Why do you have to give up your baby every second day? And why are you doing the legal stuff the cheap way? Penny wise is pound foolish -- sorry to come down hard on you, but I took myself off to a lawyer, and discovered that I am in much better shape financially and with respect to my childen than anticipated. Plus, it's a big, huge fat surprise to my h. I doubt very much that the courts would award split custody of a baby.
Susan, I am not concerned in the least about getting enough money! I am smart, contrary to what it might look like, LOL!
According to the laws in my state, 50% custody is legal starting at 1 year of age. Turns out that dads are actually important and valuable--so the courts do not automatically award kids to mom 80% TIME, KWIM?
Every other day is one option or split week in half or do every other week.
And am doing the best for my S--I want to keep him daily but that is not fair to him. Every child needs 2 parents (whether adpoted or step or birth)
But it ain't over til it's over! Thanks for your concern, though!
Newmama!!!!
Hey! Just a thought, you could allow him to continue all of these Acts Of Service, and become your minion!
Great job, girl!
You aren't just smart. You are BRILLIANT!
Ok so I came back from my overnight visit with S at my friend's house. We had a good time! Then went to the pediatrician who confirmed S is recovering nicely and we are doing the right things to care for him at home.
Just talked to my SIL who will babysit S for me when I have an appt and I offered to babsit her boys on V day night so she and her H can go out! I told her that I have a wii so the boys can bring their games and play over here. She said she'd get back to me.
She asked how I was doing and said it was smart to stay in the present and encouraged me to pull back as much as I can but not to be a biatch about it (she knows her brother). She said that from her knowledge that she gained about As from her experience , counseling, reading, the 1 year point in an A is a "pivotal" time so it is probably a good sign that he has not filed for D yet but also thinks I am doing the right thing for hoping for best yet preparing for worst.
Haha Mindfull,
maybe I will be able to get him to vacuum and mop, dust, go grocery shopping, and clean my car, too!
Well the house is a complete wreck at the moment but it will be clean and garbage will be taken out to the curb by Sunday so he won't have anything to do in terms of Acts of Service! I am sure he could find something....
Hey newmama, sorry for coming off so harsh. I do believe that you are smart, and capable. So am I. But if you read up on the stats, women post D experience a huge drop in income, while men's income goes way up. It's not about gouging, it's about survival and making sure you take care of your needs and the baby's.
And I also didn't mean to imply that dad's aren't important -- they are critical to the child's welfare and maturing process. But from what I've seen -- here, and in friends lives, and in research -- dad's involvement tends to peter out after a while, especially when there's another woman in the picture.
Ok Susan, thank you for clarifying! I apologize for responding so defensively about fathers. Rest assured, if WH started flaking out, I would be fighting for full custody (if we D). But luckily I just don't see him doing that.
And you are right about income- he makes 2.5 times what I do but we already looked up child support calculator info(last March) and he would be paying me quite a bit, even with 50% custody. We hashed out other expenses as well that he voluntarily offered to pay. Wrote it all up...just hope to God we won't need to go there.
Hi NM,
Glad to hear you have covered yourself -- the research shows that women tend to "give away" too much at the outset out of kindness. You don't want to presume that your husband, who promised so much, would bail on responsibilities but it happens so often. I think sometimes that's because they are cut off from their kids (unavoidable to some extent when you've left -- or been kicked out of -- the home.
Legislating dads' involvement is a good step forward, but every sitch is different and it can't replace them in the home.
I started practicing my belly dancing DVD! S watches my arms and hands like he is mesmerized, LOL! Wonder what he'll think when I wear my coin skirt!
Now some tips: it is not a race...move sloooowly, keep a "seductive/coy" look on your face, master a few moves before adding more, and do not dress up in full costume unless getting paid for a professional performance!
But it is definitely intense, like pilates.
My cousin is coming to babysit S so I can get my house caught up!When WH takes S overnight, I want to try to relax, work out, enjoy time to myself tonight instead of cleaning! Am going to make a recipe from my Cooking Light cookbook but I don't know what yet.
newmama, it sounds like GAL is going really well for you! I've met many women who really enjoyed bellydancing. I hope you have a great evening.
confession--after being a single mom to one baby for the past 3 days and 3 nights I AM READY FOR A BREAK!!!!
How does Undefeated and other wives in the service do it for MONTHS?????
COOOO COO COOO COO...5:30 PLEASE GET HERE
Of course I would prefer that WH didn't take him overnight--a couple hours of taking over would be enough for a break!
Am thinking of my light margarita...1 hour 40 minutes to go!
newmama, totally understandable! I remember watching the clock...being alone with a baby is so exhausting.
okay I am relieved of baby duty! It is worse right before bed and then all day tomorrow waiting for S to return! But I seem to be okay being away for a few hours, heh heh!
So WH complimented me on the house and seemed interested in chatting a little...sharing some stuff about a buddy from his work.
He made eye contact with me but then would look away if I held his gaze too long.
I was sure not to let on that I was ready for a break because I do not wanted to help him feel better about taking him!!!
Oh yeah- WH said "he smells like your perfume!' I said "oh, sorry!" heh heh heh!
Just talked to my DB coach. Major points:
1)good that WH didn't bring up D after holidays
2)good job being mysterious andGALing but I can "drop some hints" to raise his curiousity
3)doesn't recommend I go dark because I am getting some progress currently but to mix it up; be gone some days, be present others
4)when WH drops comments that elude to divorced life in the future (i.e. day care comment, taxes, etc.) then to note that it could be something triggered him to make those comments;like he is using them to establish distance between us; if I was persuing for example he might make a comment to put the wall up. If OW was pressuring him he might make that comment too. If he was having a good time with me and felt confused he could make the comment. So I guess I should just not read too much into them.
5) He assured me that "acting happy" might give WH the impression that I am happy and be prepared for him to say "I'm glad you are getting on with your life; you seem happy so let's divorce."
But that was good because you don't want a spouse to come back to you out of obligation or guilt; like if he couldn't D me because he thought it would cause me too much pain.So he returns but is not in it 100%; is miserable.
He told me if WH said that, I was to respond to the first comment only and say "yes, I have had fun learning to belly dance...it's quite erotic actually! Some moves are trickier than others but I love it so far! And yes, I have been getting to different wine bars around the Portland area and met some new friends. Oh and ever since my friend introduced me to Super Mario Bros on the wii I have been loving it...I went and got one and have been working my way through the levels!"
He said to just tell short 30 second stories. And then change the subject! WH might not bring up divorce again.
BUT if he does pursue the topic, I am to say
"You know, I want both of us to live happy, rich, fulfilled lives. I believe that we deserve to have that together. As you can see I have already started. But if you don't want that with me, so be it."
Drop the rope. Be done. (like I suspected- dropping the rope means I GIVE UP! YOU WIN ALREADY! SHEEEEEESH!)
WH could still go throught with the D. Or maybe not.
Let's see....so he just warned me to mentally prepare for any comments that might hurt me or talk of divorce and rehearse my response. Visualize it so I will be emotionally prepared.
And he reminded me that this is a human experiment. So I need to monitor results...look for changes from him (duh). He did ask me if I saw anything positive lately.
All I had was he has been doing more acts of service and seems happy to see me...but it could be guilt. He just said that all I have to measure my results is his behavior so whether or not it is motivated by guilt, I don't know. But if I implement A and he increases acts of service, it could be a result of implementation of A. It's something different, he said.
So I feel a combination of validation for what I have been doing, encouragement and then "impending doom."
Oh he said if I am having a down day then to be gone for sure! That makes sense!
Yeah and one more thing--he said at some point that both WH and I deserve to be happy but that WH needs to see that he will be happier with ME, not OW, so I need to be the best newmama I can be. Then he said "and even if you divorce, you want WH to be happy right, I mean you don't want him to be miserable..."
I said "well, only since he is the father of my child! hahaha."
You sounds really good newmama! How many sessions with your coach have you had? I have had one, 2 weeks ago and ready for another session! Amazing how they can pump you up!!!
Thank you for posting, confusedwife! I was feeling a little lonely for a sec!
Well I had all 3 sessions. I had my first back in November, 2nd one was a month later and then I waited 2 months. Yes he was good at pumping me up! They are expensive though. If you have self discipline and a strong grasp of the books' principles then don't spend the money.
BUT I think paying the money for the sessions are best when you can't think straight and are worried about being too emotional with your spouse and losing your cool.
CW have you seen any positive results from the goals you set with your coach 2 weeks ago?
Well, I had a reply all typed out and lost it so will have to start over later!
Have you read DestinyUnknown's thread at all? She is really not doing very good and think you might have some good advice for her. She is under Need Help...am I wrong, should I hold out hope? I think in the seperated or mlc forums. If I knew how to post a link I would!
newmama,
The advice from your DB coach was lots to absorb. I think it was just what you needed. In fact, thanks for posting all of it because it even applies to me.
Yeah and one more thing--he said at some point that both WH and I deserve to be happy but that WH needs to see that he will be happier with ME, not OW, so I need to be the best newmama I can be. Then he said "and even if you divorce, you want WH to be happy right, I mean you don't want him to be miserable..."
Wasn't easy for me to agree to, but it's right even though WH has been a miserable and cruel man to me. I truly don't want to see him that way. I wish he would get in a better place and be reasonable.
I think you were at the point to have a coaching session since like I said before you were coming to a crossroads and you were given some good advice and direction.
This was the fuel you needed to help you with your DBing. Happy for you!
Newmama - Just saw your update. Will be back later. You rock!
Ok! My goals were 1. get the visits with the kids on a schedule...we talked about it but with H's work and possible OT every weekend it is hard as he works midnight-8:00am so we just have to kinda play it by ear for now!
2. The coach thought that maybe H was not feeling needed here anymore. Kids went about their business and I have pretty much showed him that I can do this without his help when I had car trouble etc. (maybe I was dbing too well?) and that from my description of OW (probably needy and the fact that he stresses evertime he is here to not be afraid to call if we need anything)that he needs to feel needed so I was to have something that needed fixed. Well, he comes about every weekend to split wood for us to burn in the stove and this weekend the weather messed us up so hoping he can come this Sunday as the garage door is not opening correctly...
3. was to flirt a little...about 3 weeks ago he was here and really mad at me as I had changed the locks and he felt I was locking him out (that was after he brought OW here) and I remained calm and talked him "down" from that explaining that I was not locking him out but that I needed to feel safe here etc. Later, he playfully pinched my rear and then kissed me and we had a little playful sparring about that so coach thought I should flirt some. I don't know...never have been good at that he has been more distant since then so haven't had much of a chance to do that!
I called too late to get another appt with coach this week so looks like next Monday before I will talk to her again! She was very encouraging and even thought it is expensive, I am glad that I am doing it!
Hey, Newmama!
OK, I like your DB Coach!
Did you tell him about AofS?
What has happened the last few days between you two? I like to read your updates, ya planner!
Be good, girlfriend!
Well yesterday was his day off. And I knew I had to reveal one of my mysteries but didn't have a plan...in fact I was relaxed kind of since the DB coach said I could "mix it up" and not have to be gone from the house every time he is here because that is predictable!
So I started by drinking my coffee, checking email, and ordering some cute tops from VS! (with built in bras). Well the news was on and we just made some chit chat while he played with S. Then I went upstairs, got ready and came back down to work on my coq au vin in the crockpot recipe! (chicken and veggies in red wine)
WH said "are you making your dinner? What is that?" So I said yes and told him. After that I got the shop vac and cleaned out my car (in the past he just cleaned our cars without being asked-just his thing). I brushed the leaves out of the garage too.
So I stayed busy doing my own thing and not talking to him...not on purpose just was busy!
Then I suggested we take our S to the nearby park I found the other day and put him in the baby swing. He thought that sounded good so after S woke up, we walked over there together. I was sure to walk in front and shake my hips a little, haha!
We had a good time putting S in the swing and I went on one of the swings by myself! Then WH went down the slide with S and WH put S at the top of a short slide and let go so I ended up catching him!
The awesome thing was that when we came back home, we open the door and the aroma of the super delicious coq au vin hit us! The house smelled amazing! I didn't plan that but it is an AoS technique!
Then I got ready to work out and WH asked if it was ok if he stayed a little later-he had a dr.appt for 6 p.m. So I said of course and worked out, then left to get a chocolate ice cream cone from DQ, then picked up the mail. Usually he gets it.
In the mail were a bunch of bills for him, an adult novelty coupon (which I put in the recycling right away!!!) and my belly dancing coin skirt!
So I take the coin skirt out of the package and try it on over my jeans. I didn't show him, he just heard it and said "What is that?" so I told him. He smiled and said he bet S would love that! I agreed...we'll see!
Okay so THEN I saw I had a wine meet up for a Monday night but usually my night outs are Thursday nights. Well I ask him if I could switch my night out to Monday one week. He said "sure!" right away without having to go and check with OW like he has in the past.
But I realized that going to this wine meet up would mean I would have to skip my belly dancing class on Thurs so I told him never mind; I need to keep my Thurs plans. He said "You can do both nights if you want." I said "really?" and he said "Yes- you should get to get out and have fun--just tell me you need to do stuff!"
So he said yes to that without having to "check his calendar!"
When dinner was near, I boiled up some red potatoes and served myself some coq au vin atop the potatoes. He got some for himself and said the chicken was delicious.
By the time he left, I was getting S ready for his bath and he had spent 10 hours over here...the last time he was here that long was when he stayed 2 weeks after S was born!
All in all I would say the day went well.
CW, I understand about the flirting and would think if you did it when he hasn't shown any interest then it would come across as persuing!Good call not doing it as of late.
So have you seen other positive changes since you have found something for him to do? (i.e. needing him)
I will check out your thread again!
I thought of another response if WH brings up divorce--instead of the canned, cheesy response of "my life is great,I'm doing blah blah"
I can say " Well ok if that's what you want but I don't see why we are going through the hassle of all this when YOU KNOW we will be getting back together!"
It's a joke but I imagined how odd and funny it could be if I just kind of laughed off his D talk and was just kind of like "You crazy son of a gun! Ah geez, what are we going to do with you?" Kind of like he was up to his latest "shenanagins" and going through a phase. How satisfying for me would that be?
Always smiling with a "knowing" look, moving stuff out of the house, going to parenting classes, doing the whole thing but never crying in front of him, never being angry, and just shaking my head and giggling?
hahahaha! (just a fantasy but hopefully he won't ever bring up D!!)
Mindfull, I DIDN'T tell my coach about AoS! I forgot about it!
I mean I am still keeping it in mind but so much of what he wants me to do is AoS...being unpredictable, looking good, being caring, being mysterious, being in a good mood/upbeat...
I think I will be playing my wii when he drops S off on Saturday a.m.
But I better find some other mysterious thing to pick up! I guess just working on the garden.. planting my herbs to start with. About 8 are sprouting so far!
Newmama -
a great update!!!
GOOD LORD! This guy would have to be NUMB to not notice the bonding experience of you two w/your son at the park, really nice dinners, etc...
I need your recipe for the chicken!! None that I have found use a crock pot, and they are life savers w/kids and sports activities!
And I forgot something...so I was in the den and he was in the front room making his dr. appt. He was trying to be quiet and I heard him say "I found a lump in my testicle" So I pretended like I didn't hear him.
When he mentioned he made his appt I said "oh for your cold?" and he said "yes and I made one for a physical." I asked why and he said "well I haven't had one in 7-8 years."
So I felt VERY hurt that he didn't tell me about the lump! He watched me give birth to his son! He was there for me when I had a laparoscopy to remove an ovarian dermoid cyst ! OW probably knows!
But I did an internet search and saw there were tons of different causes for a lump...only 1% being cancer. I guess if it isn't death related then he doesn't need to say anything.
And maybe he wants to rule out STD from the ho-bag!
Mindfull, here you go- but I made up my own "herbs de provence" with tarragon and rosemary!
http://www.slow-cooker.com/coq-au-vin.htmlAnd I am making white chili chicken next Sunday!!!
Wonderful update newmama!
Seems as though you put all the DB coach's advice to work and I think you are making great progress.
Yum... coq au vin... in a crockpot no less. How about sharing the recipe!
Newmama - I'm sorry that was hurtful, but I got a laugh out of it... Just the visual, whispering making the appointment, having to say OUT LOUD what the issue is, etc... What man wants to talk about his balls being faulty, seriously? It's interesting that he chose your house to do this in... I'm sure he's just embarrassed. Remember, after we've given birth, it feels like EVERYONE has seen our innards (and outards - is that a word?). Guys get away without that "show". He's probably just terribly embarrassed.
Thanks for the recipe!!! I'll try it!
MF, glad you didn't think it was a big deal that he didn't tell me.
About the recipe- I used chx breasts, dried herbs and pinot noir instead and it was still amazing!
Thanks for sharing your DB session with us newmama. Like you say, a real combination of reassuring and scary.
4)when WH drops comments that elude to divorced life in the future (i.e. day care comment, taxes, etc.) then to note that it could be something triggered him to make those comments;like he is using them to establish distance between us
I think this is so true! When I look back I see that with my H.
5) He assured me that "acting happy" might give WH the impression that I am happy and be prepared for him to say "I'm glad you are getting on with your life; you seem happy so let's divorce."
But that was good because you don't want a spouse to come back to you out of obligation or guilt; like if he couldn't D me because he thought it would cause me too much pain.So he returns but is not in it 100%; is miserable.
I need to remind myself of this.
About the crickets...I have your thread in "Watched" but for some reason it doesn't appear on my watch list so I don't see when someone has posted to it
. Feel free to let me know in my thread if you want feedback.
Take care and be strong.
AoS = Art of Seduction? Recommended?
Art of Seduction....checking it out from the library would be better than purchasing it. I need to post a quick summary sometime!
Thanks newmama for looking over my thread! Had a recent developement last night that kinda threw me a little but doing ok! Yeah, I am glad I haven't done any flirting either yet! Had a session today and am going to concentrate on the kids and getting some family time for now!
Sounds like you are doing very well!!!
Hi there - lurker here - on my thread we have been talking about baiting and walls too - so I was so glad to read your DB Coach posting. Helped me a lot, thanks. Bait=wall makes good sense to me. I'm dealing with that a lot right now and it makes sense that now that we are getting a wee bit closer (in MC) he would be making sure there's a wall...
anyhow, thanks again. I can't afford DB sessions,since H moved out, although I wish so much I could. REading your advice helped me out.
H4Love-I have lurked on you thread a time or two and am pulling for you! I wouldn't be able to afford the DB coaching sessions either but am using some inheritance money that I had in savings! Don't worry about it! Use what you find here!
H4Love, I am glad that reading about the coach's session helped! That's why I try to post in detail--for those who might be able to benefit from the coach's advice for their sitches but can't afford the services. I have read good info on other threads, too!
I will be checking out your thread!
Instead of writing up a summary on the Art of Seduction, click on this link and explore the table of contents. There is a description right there! It is divided into 2 sections: seducers and victims, then the seductive process.
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Seduction-Robe...ader_0142001198 I just saw that a concise version of Art of Seduction exists!
Here is a quote from the book about ANTI-SEDUCTION (what NOT to do):
"Seducers draw you in by the focused, individualized attention they pay to you. Anti-seducers are the opposite: insecure, self absorbed, and unable to grasp the psychology of another person, they literally repel.
Anti-Seducers have no self awareness and never realize when they are pestering, imposing, talking too much. Root out anti seductive qualities in yourself, and recognize them in others--there is no pleasure or profit in dealing with the Anti-Seducer!"
Also right before the seductive process, it says "Phase one-stirring interest and desire" (plant the seed, walk away...leave them wanting more!)
nm - trying to follow-up on a question I posted on Mindfull's thread.......because my mind is VERY open, who did your CD's??
OOPs I forgot to tell you! I ordered from amazon:
a book and CD:
The Self Hypnosis Diet by Steven Gurgevich, Ph D and Joy Gurgevich
I have a good feeling today. don't know why...it is gorgeous but windy over here!
I cried today over the idea of getting a second chance on my marriage...like if that is possible I would be so grateful! This is not because I'm codependet or messed in the head or something. It isn't about what HE did or what I did. I mean just to have a second chance, regardless of why we separated, would be a gift.
were you out on a run with me today newmama... and yea... i am still here...
Always got time to read up on my newmama
Why Cutter, were you having a good feeling today as well in your sunny but windy area? I was driving at the time although I did take S to the park earlier! I highly doubt I will ever take up running, lol! I really will get on the alt sometime-just want to put a picture up and need to get the self timer on the camera! I have tons of S and one of S and I but it's old...need a current one of S and I!
Anyway glad you are still here, Cutter- I know there aren't always things to comment on!
Like tonight. I had the music on when he arrived, the house smelled yummy, I was carrying S with me as I took the garbage out and saw WH pull up as we were outside. S smiled super big when he saw his daddy! I had made myself dinner (meatball sub) and I did have plenty left. So when H arrived I told him to help himself if he would like or I would just clean it up. He said no thank you.
I dressed up, did my hair, put on lipstick and headed out to belly dancing and got a walk in (just changed to my tennis shoes)before it started while talking to my grandma on my phone. Class was hard tonight- sooo fast! I really am a beginner and need step by step! And there were these 2 20 year olds that kept talking loudly and dominating the class with "can we do the pharoah move? Can we do the queen's camel? What about the octopus?" Grrr....Thank goodness for my DVD! I did ask some other students in the class to help me!
Well when it was over I drove around looking for a coffee place to get a decaf coffee and they were all closed! WTH? It wasn't even 9 p.m. yet!
I arrived a little after 9 and WH filled me in on S. Then he made a little chit chat and said "well I'm pretty tired so I'm going to get going" (uh whatever...he doesn't live here right now, of course he needs to get going!)
Of course as he said this, I had a magazine I was reading and was sitting in my chair and I just smiled and said "okay! Good night!"
I have been losing weight but so slowly lately...am going to amp it up and plan to lose 10 pounds by March 19, my b-day! Just pig out one day per week instead of 2 or 3 and just keep exercising like I have been! Oh and eat breakfast. I have slacked on that over the last couple of months....
I have been losing weight but so slowly lately...am going to amp it up and plan to lose 10 pounds by March 19, my b-day!
newmama, try for something sustainable like 1 lb per week. we want changes that are
permanent.
Flow, I understand your concern but I have almost 40 more pounds to lose. My plan is to :
lose a big chunk quickly, then slow down, then lose another chunk and when I have 10 pounds to go I can lose .5 per week or nothing until it comes off....it might take 2 or 3 months to lose the last 10, but I will be practicing maintaining my weight.
I know it sounds weird but actually
I read that losing weight in a "step" fashion (lose some, maintain that loss for awhile, then lose some more) helps to keep it off! The only reason I gained again was because I got pregnant!
So don't worry...I want to be a "hotmama" forever once this comes off! (my bod at least)
That makes sense newmama.
Newmama - Charmer and Professor, although the Charmer has been on the back burner so long, she forgot how to charm! And, the Professor label is slightly off, but the closest. I put more on my thread...
Lotus said this:
Love is a verb, it requires loving actions. The more you do loving actions for the person you choose to love, the easier it is to feel the love.
I have heard this before...so it means I should be letting my WH do acts of service for me?
The thing is I could not just pick a guy off the street and choose to love him. So that is why "the choice" to love is kind of baffling.I think there are some other components involved. BUT the committment to loving someone is something I can totally buy~!
Love discussing love.. Helen Fisher (Why We Love) has narrowed love down to brain chemistry. Initial "in love" feelings (and brain chemicals that use the same receptors as cocaine!) last 18 months to 3 years, longer if there are barriers in the way of that love. Fisher then goes on to describe how love becomes warm and dependable, and attachment occurs or love dies. Her book is not about affairs, but is a good explanation of what we are all going through.
Initial "in love" feelings (and brain chemicals that use the same receptors as cocaine!) last 18 months to 3 years, longer if there are barriers in the way of that love
great. So my WH and the slut are going to be going strong due to the barriers in their life.
ok update...
WH picked up S on Friday night. I was not feeling that great. He took his time leaving, I think he thinks it will help me if I get to hang out with him a long time before he takes him. IT DOESN'T!
So I kept saying 'okay, bye! see you tomorrow cuddlebug! Ok see you later! Bye!'
and I think WH noticed, haha! I don't care what he thought but he finally just took him and left. You see the sooner they go, the sooner my baby comes back. And it is also like ripping off a bandaid!
So I just stayed in, talked to my friends on the phone, drank too much wine. The next morning I did laundry, worked out, cleaned up. I decided to "plant" one of my new pairs of panties where WH would see them...so I dropped it on the floor in the hall, like it fell out of the basket!
And then I played my Super Mario Bros and left it on so WH would see it when he dropped off S.
Sure enough, when I came downstairs from my shower, I saw the underwear was not there anymore- he tossed them into the laundry room! So he did see them and was forced to think of me, haha!
Then I explained about the wii and was so glad that I took this long to tell him so that it didn't come across as me trying to get his attention. It was me sharing a new hobby that my girlfriend exposed me to! And truthfully, now that S will take longer naps, I have time to play it!
So then we rushed out the door to visit my mom. WH helped put S in the car. It was a really nice day! For some reason, these really nice days just make me want WH back even more.
My friend that I talked to on the phone on Fri night admitted she thought WH would have filed for D by now. She said she is now believing that he isn't so sure and there is hope for reconciliation!
And our tax return came in. So if money was the reason why he hasn't filed, we will see!
I plan to be busy today (no problem trying) and then on Wed when he spends the day here, I plan to be present mostly and maybe even suggest another outing together. Don't know yet.
Initial "in love" feelings (and brain chemicals that use the same receptors as cocaine!) last 18 months to 3 years, longer if there are barriers in the way of that love
great. So my WH and the slut are going to be going strong due to the barriers in their life.
According to Helen Fisher, Yeah. Which is where the idea of going dark and leaving them too it speeds its end, comes from, I think. When the dopamine stops influencing them, they are left with feelings of attachment...for the LBS! Not sure if I have this right but it is close. I'll bet Allen can explain it better.
Love the panty-droppage!!!! LOL
I am sure those who are "anti bo peep" stay far away from my thread! :-)
Pretty sure Allen is one of them!
LRT in my case will result in Divorce. I am 99% sure. So that is why unless or until I want a divorce I just won't risk it!
But when there are barriers in a relationship that include one partner who hasn't divorced yet and is staying in contact with their spouse, as well as their child, that just can't make for a harmonious relationship! Maybe a lot of S&M in the bedroom, barf!
and thanks for kudos for the panty droppage! My friend said "plant a pair in S' diaper bag when he goes overnight, haha!"
I was thinking of putting a pair under the seat in his car!
No...must be subtle.
I am sure those who are "anti bo peep" stay far away from my thread! :-)
Pretty sure Allen is one of them!
LRT in my case will result in Divorce. I am 99% sure. So that is why unless or until I want a divorce I just won't risk it!
But when there are barriers in a relationship that include one partner who hasn't divorced yet and is staying in contact with their spouse, as well as their child, that just can't make for a harmonious relationship! Maybe a lot of S&M in the bedroom, barf!
You are doing fine as you are! If I could do it, I would.
I tried for 6 months, but I would fall into despair and hurt as I watched H do his balancing act. Finally, he said he thought he could keep everyone happy by him living at home, and whoring in the afternoon! I think it is called cake-eating. I do not know what he wants now or hopes to accomplish by living in the sleazy motel with her AND wanting his marriage, life and family. He has resisted legal steps so far. Maybe when his attachment to me wears off???
The 50 million dollar ?. Do you maintain contact and risk cake-eating or go dark and hope to trigger attachment needs and risk detachment?
I would like to refer to it as "cupcake eating!"
He gets to be in his house, see me. That is about it. I talk to him and see him way less than before. I mean he gets to see his baby but that isn't cake eating! :-)
I love reading your thread NM! I can just feel your energy and optimism!!!
I would like to refer to it as "cupcake eating!"
He gets to be in his house, see me. That is about it. I talk to him and see him way less than before. I mean he gets to see his baby but that isn't cake eating! :-)
I think you are doing great! Marriage Builders would call it a great Plan A, and Dr. Bob would call it a great job of Leaping your Partner. However, even with GALing, I am sitting in a hole waiting for the last shovel of dirt to bury me. Can't dig out until H makes a move. Your way is much more fun!
Question: As you withdraw, do you fear him thinking "she's ok now, doesn't need me, seems fine without me, so I can cut the final thread"?
CW, can you feel my frustration too sometimes? I KNOW I have the power to end this by ultimatum which will lead to D. But I kno this limbo won't last forever so I find my strengthm ask God for help, and perservere....arrrrrggggh!!!!@#$%&*(
Question: As you withdraw, do you fear him thinking "she's ok now, doesn't need me, seems fine without me, so I can cut the final thread"?
YES!!!! So that's why I want to keep contact during his day off.
The withdrawal is just "something different" that I need to try sometimes, don't you think? Also I need it when I am feeling especially heartbroken and/or pissed off!
So do you think sending a mixed message of need vs not is a good thing? A lot of the DBing just doesn't seem to fit when there is an OW/affair involved.
NM-yes, you will be frustrated at times but I truly don't "feel" it in most of your posts!
WN
"So do you think sending a mixed message of need vs not is a good thing? A lot of the DBing just doesn't seem to fit when there is an OW/affair involved."
I have been wondering about that myself!
"So do you think sending a mixed message of need vs not is a good thing? A lot of the DBing just doesn't seem to fit when there is an OW/affair involved."
I have been wondering about that myself!
And I don't mean need as in "needy, pleading, crying, looking for reassurance". It is more of a sense of missing their presence in daily life, household issues, parenting and dealing with kid problems. Don't they need to know they have left a hole in the family by skipping off and following their "feelings and impulses" for another? Or is that guilt-producing and a bad thing? I guess a WAS can justify/rationalize it either way, whichever suits their desire!
Newmama,
I found your thread and have read parts of it, but it is 68 pages! So I'll just jump on here and follow along. Good to see you are a fellow bellydancer. I have been taking class for about 3 years now. That is a special treat that I give to my H on occasion. I will do a seductive bellydance for him in just the coinbelt and a headdress. I never get past about 2 minutes of dancing for some reason. I think he has a short attention span (LOL).
And I like the idea of crockpot coq au vin, I will have to try that recipe! It sounds like you are doing the right things. You are not taking the hardline and forcing the divorce. The affair could peter out and your H could decide you are the better option. Stranger things have happened! Good for you for using the telephone coaching.
Lotus
Lotus! Thanks for stopping by! I do not expect you to read the whole thread for goodness sakes! I will post a summary soon.
WN- I totally wonder about the "creating a need" idea for the WAHs...I will post more later. WH is still here and I am about to work out!
Newmama, I think you are smart to follow the DB coach's advice. I think that the sitch of having young children does create different dynamics than is the case for those who have no children or older children. Even if there is an A involved.
Newmama, I do think it's good for children to have a bit of a transitional period when changing caregivers. I would encourage you to figure out a way to make it a positive time when your H is lingering a bit. I know it's hard for you though.
I enjoy the positive energy that you give off in your thread and I'm sure your H picks up on it too.
Okay. So today I kept the panties in the drawer...no "droppage" LOL!
But WH arrived while I was still in PJs. I got ready and went grocery shopping for 3 hours! Well, went to Costco too.
When I returned, I unloaded the car on my own and started making the white chicken chili recipe that Mindfull gave me.
When I returned from the store, I played with S a little while WH was playing with him too.
I picked up some jalepeno popper flavored doritos at the store and ate some, and offered some to WH. He liked them and said thanks. I discovered that my new sandals still had the alarm tag on them so I asked WH if we had any wire cutters to get it off...could he please take it off for me? He said he would love to do that!
Let's see...WH cleaned out the humidifier for S. I thanked him for it. Before he left, WH said "I'll take the garbage to the curb, and I got all the garbage from the house, including S' diaper pail..." argggh! He has been doing this every week for 7.5 months now...why tell me? Is he trying to get a compliment from me or trying to point out that he is being helpful? I still said "great, thanks a lot!" like it was an extra task he did.
He said he would check in with us in the a.m. and I said "see you tomorrow!"
Now I did say something to him...I asked if he could make his famous salsa tomorrow if I got the ingredients (forgot today). Then I said "I know that I should learn how to make it though...and pizza crust and chili...I need to figure out how to make those things that you always made!" (???I don't know why I was saying that-I wasn't doing it on purpose) But he said "you could make the crust!" and I told him that yes, I could figure it out but that he really had it down and could tell what to fix if it was too sticky or something.
Then I was eating my chicken chili and commented that I would like it to be thicker. He lit up and said I could add tomato paste or reduce it down but turn the fan on low. I mention this brcause it struck me as if he was missing cooking. Oh I bet he gets to do it at OW's, but she has a tiny kitchen, hardly any pots and pans and utensils (well that was 2008). We have just about EVERYTHING you need!
So I felt good...I am thinking that it's good to make the time I do spend with him/around him pleasant, happy, and just establish consistent positive associations. I was also able to be gone and busy.Tomorrow night I am going to my class and then won't see him until Wednesday.
Okay. So today I kept the panties in the drawer...no "droppage" LOL!
But WH arrived while I was still in PJs.
Ha hee! Now...We have to do something about those PJ's he seems to be getting there early often enough to catch you in!!!! Something different??? a teddy???? with a matching robe????
Sounds like you had a great day! Keep on keepin' on!
Love discussing love.. Helen Fisher (Why We Love) has narrowed love down to brain chemistry. Initial "in love" feelings (and brain chemicals that use the same receptors as cocaine!) last 18 months to 3 years, longer if there are barriers in the way of that love. Fisher then goes on to describe how love becomes warm and dependable, and attachment occurs or love dies. Her book is not about affairs, but is a good explanation of what we are all going through.
Love is a verb, it requires loving actions. The more you do loving actions for the person you choose to love, the easier it is to feel the love.
So what's the difference between these two ways of looking at love?
I'd say that Fisher's definition relates to the "in love" feeling, an adjective, while my definition has to do with "love as an action', a verb.
Have you read The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery? If not, get it, you can read it to your son. It is a children's book, sort of. It contains great wisdom about life, and the meaning of life, of love, and of death.
It is about the Little Prince and his flower and his sheep and his travels. He meets a fox and asks the fox to play with him but the fox says he can't because he is not tamed. Once the fox is tamed by the Prince he tells him the secret...."It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye"...."It is the time you have devoted your rose that makes your rose so important." Love grows from acts of love. Yes, let him do acts of service to you.
WN- good idea..but let me clarify something: how can I do it without coming across as chasing? And I did order some tank tops for PJs that are low cut, tight...would these suffice?
Lotus:
Have you read The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery?
Yes!! This was my mom's favorite story! Haven't read it in years though!
Well I know of an act of service I REALLY NEED, lol! but am not interested while he is porking OW.
Seriously though, do I ask him to do things like ask "could you please do me a favor?" or just leave something undone that needs to be taken care of so he will discover it on his own? Or start doing something in front of him?
So last night I got WH to make me his salsa-it was delicious! I left pretty quickly after he arrived here from work. I wasn't all done up (I wasn't in the mood and it won't have much of an impact if I ALWAYS am done up before I leave) but I looked decent.
So I went for a very very long walk and talked to my girlfriend on the phone.
When I returned, I ate the salsa and we hung out for a few minutes. I was friendly but did not initiate conversation... he had every opportunity to bring up R talk (good or bad) but chose to talk about S!
"We" have a good sleep routine in place and "we" should just keep doing the same and tweak as needed....
I realized that I used to be so concerned that he and OW had tons to talk about because they worked together. Well, now they work for the same company but different groups. But they don't have a child together--he and I could talk about S for hours every day! Holy moly....what do they really have in common anymore?
And about the sex....I am pretty sure they went crazy in the beginning, going all out and doing whatever they wanted, but at this point..well a man has needs and there she is. Get in, get out. "why isn't this as exciting and illicit as it once was?" he could be thinking!
I seriously doubt that their relationship hasn't "evolved" and it has no where to grow. I mean they are in limbo, too....stalemate....plateau....if he divorces me, he will never bring her around to his family, the people at work will be very disappointed, his work friends hate her, and he will lose the opportunity to see his son as much as has been. I mean they could get a place together....then what? How fulfilling will their life really be?
This is why 95% affairs end and less than 1% of marriages to OPs last.
So those are my thoughts today! Burn baby burn....
So last night I got WH to make me his salsa-it was delicious! I left pretty quickly after he arrived here from work. I wasn't all done up (I wasn't in the mood and it won't have much of an impact if I ALWAYS am done up before I leave) but I looked decent.
So I went for a very very long walk and talked to my girlfriend on the phone.
When I returned, I ate the salsa and we hung out for a few minutes. I was friendly but did not initiate conversation... he had every opportunity to bring up R talk (good or bad) but chose to talk about S!
"We" have a good sleep routine in place and "we" should just keep doing the same and tweak as needed....
I realized that I used to be so concerned that he and OW had tons to talk about because they worked together. Well, now they work for the same company but different groups. But they don't have a child together--he and I could talk about S for hours every day! Holy moly....what do they really have in common anymore?
And about the sex....I am pretty sure they went crazy in the beginning, going all out and doing whatever they wanted, but at this point..well a man has needs and there she is. Get in, get out. "why isn't this as exciting and illicit as it once was?" he could be thinking!
I seriously doubt that their relationship hasn't "evolved" and it has no where to grow. I mean they are in limbo, too....stalemate....plateau....if he divorces me, he will never bring her around to his family, the people at work will be very disappointed, his work friends hate her, and he will lose the opportunity to see his son as much as has been. I mean they could get a place together....then what? How fulfilling will their life really be?
This is why 95% affairs end and less than 1% of marriages to OPs last.
So those are my thoughts today! Burn baby burn....
Newmama:
Don't laugh at this recipe, but it's AMAZING!!!
We live on a river, and my boys are wakeboarders. We have a wake tower boat, and it attracts 20-something wakeboarder boys to "help" my boys learn new tricks (D18 really hates it! Me, too, for that matter...!!!) Well, the wakeboarder boys take my boys every summer to this wakeboard camp up in WI, that has five pros that run it, and they stay a week. The boys all raved about this famous "casserole" that the cook up there makes. I asked him last time I was there what it was... He had some, and let me taste it. YUM! He told me it's actually a Duggar family recipe. Makes sense since he's feeding the masses up there!!!
So, here it is in case you need a good, stick to your ribs, BASIC!! (I halve this for my family of 4-5.)
DUGGAR's TATER TOT CASSEROLE
2 lb ground round cooked, seasoned, drained
3 2lb bags tater tots
2 cans cream of mushroom
2 cans evaporated milk
2 cans cream of chicken
Brown meat & place in large cass. dish.
Cover with tater tots. Mix soup & milk together.
Pour over top. Bake at 350 for 1 Hour.
(One of Daddy’s Favorites!) Makes 2- 9”X13” pans
I make guacamole all the time! Love it! Have yet to make a good salsa. Do you like those fairly new blue corn chips? YUM!
Now, I'm hungry!!!
Oh, and hey, I want to see some more strategy communicated here. You're kind of flying by the seat of your pants... Not like you! LoL
Hey, I was JUST thinking that I needed strategy!I feel lost though...like I've been doing the same things and now what.
My plan before involved cooking, cleaning, looking good, being mysterious, not ever texting/calling/emailing, GALing, being busy.
Then last week I shared some of my mystery (belly dancing and wii) and made babysitting plans with WH for going out to a wine meet up but haven't told him where I am going.
Then I stopped cooking "for" him, but am still doing it for myself, cleaning, looking good 4/5 times, but then I started sending a text or 2 about S (of course). And he replies eagerly.
So I am spinning my wheels. Now what? Part of me just wants to go about my life, looking good still (haha) and not talk about relationship stuff but just take a break from trying anything else.
Then I consider that I haven't been the one to initiate doing stuff together since maybe November...and I did last week when I suggested we went to the park. He willingly went along. So should I be doing more initiating of family stuff?
Then Lotus suggested I let him do acts of service which I agree with.
Spinning my wheels here...input? suggestions?
salsa ingredients that WH uses: roma tomatos, onion, garlic, jalepeno or serrano peppers, apple cider vinegar,cilantro,lime juice, salt, cumin.... I think that's it!
oh and the casserole sounds yummy! but could I substitute cream of celery or potato soup or something instead of mushroom???
newmama,
I have been reading your thread and think that in regards to what you are doing you should continue on the path you are on. Remember that these things take time to REALLY see some changes. I think your husband is almost intrigued by you again which is a good thing so don't slip back into texting him or planning outings with him (even if it is your son) just yet. A man wants what he can't have and he needs to see you continue to be fabolous and get more interested in you while at the same time he also needs to be feeling nervous about you possibly not being an option for him. Keep doing your outings, GAL, cooking, and being mysterious. He isn't quite where you need him to be yet IMO but his eagerness to hang out with you and son, responding to texts does show him being interested. Don't show your hand too soon...keep your cards (feelings/emotions) close.
Newmama -
I agree w/4Luv, especially after you re-capped. Keep on doing it... It's just fun to hear your ideas on the mysterious, what you're doing to GAL, etc... You are DEFINITELY intriguing him to some degree. Keep it up, girlfriend!!!
I would use Cream of Celery! That sounds good, too.
How's the belly-dancing skirt? LoL That makes me smile!!!
Well I know of an act of service I REALLY NEED, lol!
Heh me too. Next relationship theres going to be lots of catching up for lack of services over the last year....
4luv and Mindfull, thank you for the feedback! So I can work on doing more GALing, finding another mysterious thing (I think?) and not stress about initiating family outings or texting...oops I sent him a video text of S today...but I am not hooked on contacting him so I can cut it off again!
I will save that casserole recipe for a weekend meal!
OK tomorrow's plan...he will be 8 hours:
-will wear tank top and PJ bottoms when he arrives
-drink coffee,wake up gradually, maybe chat about current events,work on crossword, make breakfast
-work out/get ready
-clean and organize (boring but necessary)
-??maybe go to home improvement store and pick up materials for toybox or go to bedbathbeyond for a cast iron dutch oven
(I really would like WH to go with me but shouldn't ask, right?)
-prepare my dinner (baked chicken rolled in seasoned, crushed tortilla chips -recipe on back of mission tortilla chip bag)
with reheated verde rice and refried beans w/ chopped onions & cheese
I do have things that he could help me with. I'll try to ask for favors or hint or something...
Cutter, it is amazing what a little abstinence will do for the libido....
Newmama - I hear ya!
And, geez, Cutter is really stepping out of the box w/that comment! LoL
Dinner sounds fab! Wish I wouldn't have already planned mine!
Well please share your dinner!
I woke up with a bad cold though...WH has already told me that I should rest a lot today and he will go to the store for me if I need something! He also has already found something to fix/clean!
So I am just chillin like I planned but will soon make breakfast and then get going...ughh I haven't been sick in over a year!
I have been busy cleaning but need to rest...this cold is kind of a doozy! Well I mentioned aloud that I needed to do stuff like take the newspapers to the recylcing, go through S' clothes, vacuum....and then I notice he has taken the newspapers for me!
Also he is picking up a couple of things I need at Costco...so 3 acts of service today!
Now I will rest a little and then vacuum and work out. A couple of days ago I watched Julie and Julia while exercising but today it is "Paper Heart." I'll be looking good before he leaves but I am not going to cook dinner tonight- don't feel good! I will tomorrow.
Oh yeah and I just mentioned how his sister will be watching S tomorrow and he said "When?" and I told him during the day for my eye appointment. He said okay, just clarifying about the time.
I think he thought maybe I asked her to watch him tomorrow night and he is over here tomorrow night, so was I planning on staying out later than usual? Just my guess...
newmama, I like your style.
Sorry if I have already brought this up, but have you read
Why Men Love Bitches? Dumb title but good, simple book on how to put men into pursuit mode. Careful of the cooking according to that book. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he loves it, but WMLB would put that in the "being the mommy" category (and you've already got that going on because you *are* a mommy). You want to be firmly in the other category until he is really preoccupied what the many "acts of service" that he could perform for you
.
PS: my H seduced me with his salsa about 10 million years ago...
Flowmom, I will see if I can read that book online or find an e-book! How funny b/c I have read recommendations for men that they should read No More Mr. Nice Guy....
who knew the way to keep our spouses committed is to treat them like crap? (j/k lol)
I'm going to write a book
How To Hang Your Husband by the Toenails 
Holy crap...I bought the ebook version of Why Men Marry Bitches (figured it was similar to Why Men Love Bitches b/c the latter wasn't available) and I see my old self all over it!!The me that WH fell for! I am far from being a bitch...this is actually reminding women to stay independent, don't "give it up" too easily, be yourself,be a little unpredictable, and unavailable. It does say to "give a little, then pull back," repeat.
Men want to feel like we chose them (as do women) and we didn't just snatch them up because they asked us...it actually makes a man feel better about himself if he has to earn his way into our life- our "full" life- because it means we are interesting and he is really special for us to make time for them!
I am half way through and eager to read more, then reflect and get busy. THANK YOU FLOWMOM-My confidence is growing again!
by the way, it makes me wonder what is in the No More Mr. Nce Guy book and others that Gucci recommends...
Holy crap...I bought the ebook version of Why Men Marry Bitches (figured it was similar to Why Men Love Bitches b/c the latter wasn't available) and I see my old self all over it!!The me that WH fell for! I am far from being a bitch...this is actually reminding women to stay independent, don't "give it up" too easily, be yourself,be a little unpredictable, and unavailable. It does say to "give a little, then pull back," repeat.
Men want to feel like we chose them (as do women) and we didn't just snatch them up because they asked us...it actually makes a man feel better about himself if he has to earn his way into our life- our "full" life- because it means we are interesting and he is really special for us to make time for them!
I am half way through and eager to read more, then reflect and get busy. THANK YOU FLOWMOM-My confidence is growing again!
I'm really glad that it's giving you some insights newmama...I like your synosis. You're still the same woman that your H fell in love with! But the sitch requires some serious role-tweaking to remind him!
newmama,
I bought that book too. I've only read a couple of chapters and than got busy with school work, and totally forgot about it. It's been a few weeks since I read it, but I remember feeling better when I was reading it. I think I will go back to it right now.
Can I be a guest contributor?
Avermont, I confess I thought of you when I was reading it,haha! But I mean that as a compliment. If you ever read it, I hope it gives you validation that your X clearly lost a few marbles and there is nothing you need to change about your sexy, independent self!
So by the time WH left, he did these things:
1) noticed the lightbulb in the stove hood needed replacing and then cleaned the vent cover (whatever it's called)
2)took the newspapers to recycling bin
3)replaced the paper towels
4)purchased some things I needed at the store
5) told me that he would pick up the special appliance lightbulbs and bring them by next time he came so that I won't have to make a special trip to the store
And he said goodbye and looked me in the eye as he quietly said "see you tomorrow!" So I cocked my head and looked up at him (I was on the floor w/ S), smiled slightly and said "see you tomorrow!" (being a little "coy")
Oh and he picked up my package on the front porch from Victoria's Secret and brought it in before he left! haha!
Now he did mention something about games for the wii earlier today. And when he talked I practiced looking at him, asking q's to get him to elaborate, and NOT INTERRUPT! (communication 101)
Also, I took a hot bath after I worked out and told him how nice it was to soak in the tub. I said this on purpose because
1) he finds it a turn on when women take baths...as in soaking in a tub, not just that they BATHE, lol!
2)I want to remind him that I am a "lover" as well as mom, so I plan to "plant" sexual associations, KWIM?
looks pretty good- nice work!!
Newmama - If you don't COMPLETELY BUST this divorce AND reconcile w/the best marriage ever... You will have GREATLY disappointed my hopes for the process. Seriously, way to go!!! I'm just going to follow along, and copy your tactics.
But, crap, we have to stop cooking?
Maybe we could just prepare raw oysters, etc... Just a thought!
Whoa about the cooking....it means you stop cooking "just for him!" Like picture Stepford Wives, June Cleaver, etc...if you are doing it for yourself anyway or for your family, that is different! And you can cook just for him if it is a special occasion! Just not your 2nd date because it sends the message that he doesn't have to work very hard to get you to pamper him! In fact, I think that last statement is the big point of the book. However, it doesn't mean we act like a spoiled brat and be high maintenance...it means we stay busy with our lives, live it fully and make room for him in it!
But it isn't about being independent to a the point of being selfish, either. You do show caring behavior toward your man, you just don't go overboard. You do ask for his help and ESPECIALLY his opinion, but not to the point that you are a helpless "little girl."
It says men value feeling appreciated more than anything else (EGO), but they want to view us as "their equal," who can take some verbal sparring, and can disagree with them about things, and can live financially independent of them if they had to.
(mind you- this is a book written for women who want their man to commit and "put a ring on it!" but it doesn't say what changes after marriage)
Thanks for your votes of confidence!! I still have reflecting to do in the sense of how to use this information and AoS and DR and my instincts!
newmama...progress! Your H has the serious "act of service" thing going on! What is his LL? I think you're on the right track with adding in the sexual/flirty overtones...
FM, do you mean the language he uses to show love or the language he needs to feel loved?
because lately I have been confused about the love language--do we show our love to others in the way we wish to receive it? Meaning WH has shown me love through acts of service and affection. So is this how he wants to be shown love?
Because words of affirmation and affection are huge for him.
So if he does an act of service, is it to receive words of affirmation? Or does he want me to give act of service to show my love? KWIM?
for the ladies out there, I am developing this opinion for
men whose wives have walked away...There is a double standard for men and women that I think the LBHs should take advantage of: it's ok for the men to DATE!
It is too risky for wives to do it though.
ladies, what do you think?
I wonder what Helen Fisher would recommend to men who want their wives back?
theres dating and relationships.... No double standard in my opinion. Date is a date. Enjoy yourself.
The LL's if I understand you question is for you to speak his and him to speak yours.
But notice that even if yours isnt acts of service, he is doing something to show love- so be careful not to discount it
for the ladies out there, I am developing this opinion for
men whose wives have walked away...There is a double standard for men and women that I think the LBHs should take advantage of: it's ok for the men to DATE!
It is too risky for wives to do it though.
ladies, what do you think?
I wonder what Helen Fisher would recommend to men who want their wives back?
Newmama, I fully intend to start dating after my move [roughly 10 days]. By dating, I mean dinner, movies, coffee, etc.
Not sex w/OM. My H is having a full-on A. If he can't handle the fact that I'm
dating, while he's been f*&king some tramp for months, then H can go pound sand.
In my case, I need to start hammering H's jealousy button. H is generally not jealous type, but does get a little possessive when he feels threatened. Even tho H is w/OW, think he still feels like I'm 'his' - despite the fact that he doesn't want me [
right now], he doesn't want anyone else to have me either. My job is to show him that although
he doesn't want me, there are
plenty of OM who do.
Make sense?
Ruined, from the way you describe your H in your thread, YES it makes TOTAL sense for you to make him jealous! Is he rather masculine or macho at all?
I am just not going to be able to date b/c
1) it will make me cry
2)I might freak out and get attached
3)in my case, it would hurt the outcome more than help it
(just have my gut telling me this)
newmama, it doesn't sound like you're in a stage where dating would be helpful to either of you. I'm no expert on LLs, just curious whether he was doing for you what he would want done for him?
Ruined, from the way you describe your H in your thread, YES it makes TOTAL sense for you to make him jealous! Is he rather masculine or macho at all?
I am just not going to be able to date b/c
1) it will make me cry
2)I might freak out and get attached
3)in my case, it would hurt the outcome more than help it
(just have my gut telling me this)
Hi NM,
H isn't macho/meathead sort. He is masculine, sorta dude-y, if that makes sense. Down to earth, what you see is what you get, traditional values.
If you aren't ready to date, def. don't. If you know that dating will upset you and be counter-productive, then you have the right answer if front of you. You know what is best for you, your sitch, and the best course of action.
My decision to start dating is a radical 180 for me. When single, didn't casually date, didn't have casual sex, just remained alone. Had a few loooong relationships, and plenty of celibacy in between each.
Feel like it would be beneficial and healthy for me
right now to meet new people, try different things, break out of my comfort zone. I know that I am in no condition to be in a R w/anyone. But don't see anything wrong w/pushing myself forward, so long as I don't hurt anyone else, or myself. If my M is to end, I will date in the future, might as well get some practice now.
The last 6 months have shredded my self-confidence, self-esteem, belief in myself. Some positive male attention can only reinforce that just b/c H doesn't want me doesn't mean that nobody else will either. Maybe it will have the added benefit of reminding H that I'm a good woman and he'd be foolish to lose me. If it doesn't, it sure will help
me remember that.
Wow, that all sounds great!
I would get the Men-Bitches book, but I have a pile of "self-help" books, not a one of which I have completed in this whole time. I just cannot get my mind/heart to read thru them.
But you go, girl, VS package on the doorstep and all.
So....what do I make of how WH acted this evening? First off, tonight I looked good and had perfume on, lipstick, etc. before I left for my class. It was a case of WH not making eye contact with me, like he did once before in December when I got gussied up to go somewhere. Hmmm...I thought. Then smiled to myself.
Well I head out to my class, but I had plenty of time to spare. So I stopped at Ross Dress For Less and tried on some jeans but they weren't a good fit. I picked up a grill pan for veggies to put on the grill, a new pair of black sandals, and a round hair brush. I still had 30 minutes before class started, so I called a friend and walked around the neighborhood (for some exercise) and the class was a little easier this time (phew!). When it ended, I had no plans but did not want to come home right away. To kill time I drove around for 45 minutes! I was thinking "must be mysterious. must make him "earn" me" lol!
So I arrive home and he is relaxing on the chair, flipping through some catalogs. I asked about S and he shared. He was not in a hurry to get up and leave! I got some water, asked about the catalog he was looking at. I made some more chit chat about S and then he got up to use the restroom. I sat down and starting looking through the DVR, commenting on how I need to find new shows and he sat down on the couch and told me about one starting soon (Justification?) so I tried to look it up and it wasn't on the guide yet. Then I told him my cold is annoying because it switches between stuffed head and constant runny nose. He left, I heard him unzip his workbag (dun da dun dun!) and walked in the room with some medicine. He said "I only have one left, but here is a mucinex. They do a pretty decent job!" I said, "thank you! I appreciate it!"
Then he went into the kitchen, and the lightbulb still needed to be replaced on the stove. I heard him fiddling and he plugged in a strand of mini lights that we purchased 3 or 4 years ago that are designed to run under the cabinets but he never set up. It worked well enough- the glow from the lights really helped to light up the kitchen. So I said "Wow, that works pretty well, actually! It will totally help me when I have to come down at 4 a.m. to make a bottle!"
These things stood out:
1) he was not in a hurry to leave
2) he suggested a show I might like when I commented about needing new shows
3) he got me some cold medicine when I said I wasn't feeling good
4) he found a "light source" for me to use temporarily until he buys the correct light bulbs
minor things-
1) he didn't make eye contact with me before I left
2)he left the VS catalog addressed to him! I received one, too, addressed to me. I just smile because I remember a couple of months ago, he took his catalog! It's a small thing.
So I am a little nervous because he was being so nice. ???
Flowmom, about the LL, that is what I wonder...and I don't know how I can do acts of service for WH right now since he is not living with me and he is "living" with OW!Cooking was one way I was doing an act of service.
BUt I am thinking that he might be doing acts of service to get affirmation, and I have been giving him affirmation so I hope that is on track!
So I am a little nervous because he was being so nice. ???
Hey newmama,
I am around as I said and checking out threads. Just really busy making up 6 months worth of life and work!
Anyway, I want to say just this - how is this night any different from the last few months? I don't see anything different in the overall attitude or plan from your H. Okay the details may be different, but in general it just seems like nothing is moving forward. Everything has sort of got comfortable in that little nook or cranny and it just sits there now.
I still think you need to shake things up NM. I really do. You know your sitch better than anybody but this is just my 2p worth from outside.
Anyway, I will keep reading about you, no fear
Hi, P, thanks for cheking in! You could be right...not sure what else I am willing to do at this point though.Will just amp up the GAL and use my info from the Bitches book!
At this moment I am not nervous about WH being nice. I will take it as a good thing.
best to be nervous. Or ignore.
"Or ignore."
Great advice. Remember, the only words you want to hear "I dumped the ho". Anything else will drive you nuts! Enjoy the pleasantness of it, but trying to guess at what it means is crazy-making!
ps. just got the "bitches" book. Exciting Friday nite for me!
I am almost on the alt! Just uploading a profile pic!
Well I know that "I dumped the ho" is what I want to hear.
Why do I bother trying to hope with you guys? sigh! (LOL)
I don't believe you!!! LoL
Newmama - You need to meet ST - Crissy. She single-handedly brought her marriage back from a really, really bad spot, INFIDELITY and all. Her approach was much like yours, WITH very young children. I'm going to send her over. You will just adore her, AND you'll meet her in the alt. She's cute as they come, too!
Thank you MF! Send her over or I can look her up, too! Ok I am on the alt. Wanted to be Cutterbug's friend but there was not even an option :-(
Well, I am headed down to stay the night at my GF's. So we'll have a good time I am sure!
saw ya in the alt my friend.
gotcha Cbug!
Ok I have returned...we ended up playing Rock Band, drinking beer and having fun of course! I did ask my friend and her H their opinion on why WH hasn't divorced me yet. Her H thinks he will because how could he come back after this mess he's made... and my girlfriend said she used to think he was going to but now she isn't sure....she thought maybe he is waiting until I go back to work for some reason. Or maybe he won't D me and we will R.
I asked them how they would handle it if we R. They said they love me, so they would accept him, but would probably secretly hate him for awhile (lol). So I asked them to think of this year of separation as WH flew over the cuckoo's nest/had an early MC/ etc. I asked if that would change their perspective a little... and they seemed to accept that idea. BTW we only talked about my sitch for maybe a total of 20 minutes! I don't dwell on it too much w/ my friends and family!
So this a.m. my friend made cottage cheese pancakes topped with fresh berries and whipped cream, and thick bacon on the side. It was GORGEOUS out so she and I went for an hour long walk up hills and through fields...it was a great work out!
I did not receive a text from WH updating me on S' night...he has done that the last 3-4 times and I have replied with one word comments but last week I did not reply at all!
So I was kind of hoping when I returned this afternoon, they would already be here, seeing me arrive, you know? But no.I showered and just put on some comfy clothes but did not have hair or make up done. When they did walk in the door, I was so happy to see S (of course) and WH just hung out for about 10 minutes or so, and we talked 99% about S. I guess he slept upright on WH last night because of his latest cold. He reminded me to schedule S' 9 month dr appt. I was thinking he might bring up daycare places because a couple months ago he said we need to look at more when S is 9 months. But he didn't. He just sat there on the couch and we sat in silence for a minute watching S play. I HATE "pregnant pauses" usually but am trying to let them occur if you KWIM.
I reminded him that I would be going out on Monday night and he said yep, and Thurs too, right? Then he said he would be bringing more vick's strips,the appliance bulbs and would set up the humidifier for tonight. And he left.
BUT something kinda sad happened- S was smiling big at him and giggling while we were both in the living room. Well, I was holding him when WH left and he smiled big at him. Then, when WH left and turned the corner, S kept looking for him, thinking he would be right back. So it made me cry pretty hard because S wants to see his daddy and he is not available. S never cried, but he clearly does enjoy his daddy.
Well must focus on the present!!!
I forgot something positive! Last night I was buying beer. When I walked up to the counter, the cashier said"My, you look terrific tonight! Can I see your ID?"
I told him he was very clever to compliment before asking for ID but asking for the ID is a compliment in itself! He said well you sure don't look your age!
Gentlemen, (and ladies) CHARM WILL GET YOU EVERYWHERE!
Whooo Hoooo NM!!!
I was carded the other day, too... OK, it was at WALMART, by a 70 yo lady w/four teeth... but, hey, it almost put a kick in my step!!!
ugh...today feels blah...was wearing new tank top and PJ bottoms when WH arrived. He is in a very good mood; very chatty. Saying stuff like "this year for the yard, I'll just put timers on the sprinklers.Next year we can install the sprinkler system"
"S is going to have a great life! Yes you will be a happy boy!"
(right- cuz his life was so fabulous growing up in a broken home...so wtf?)
When he has been talking he has used lots of "we we we" stuff (we went there for Halloween remember? we have that tool in the garage. when we made that recipe we used)
do not feel like working out- feel light headed! want to sleep...
go away WH! get the hell out of here! how can you just live peacefully in limbo? arghhahahahh losing it!
Mf- I think I was starved more for the compliment about how I looked than being carded!
Hey NM! Give yourself a break! It's ok to have a blah day...you are always so upbeat and cheerful!!! I think the "we" talk is good thing isn't it? Better than "I". "WE" did this and "we" will do that...hang in there!!!! You are doing great!
I'm sorry that you are having a bad day
I must tell you NM that I have been reading your posts and you are amazing. Your optimism and perseverance are inspiring. I really can relate to your strategy. Patience and time. That's my plan. BTW I think that when they use "WE" it's positive, however at the same time I can understand your frustration with what you may think is lack of progress. You are on the right track, believe.....
Hi, Mila! Thanks for coming out of the dark, lol! And thank you too CW...
Ok I am all right now- phew! I actually did stop exercising, took a nap, and read parts of Divorcebusting to re-motivate myself. Now I am better! I'm glad I didn't let WH see me like that- my DB coach says to leave if you are feeling grumpy or depressed so they don't see it.
WH stayed upbeat, talked a lot about working on the yard, getting the chainsaw out (started reading the manual) and tried to play with both S and I.
The book reminded me that progress may be slow, and the signs may be little but they still count- so if we see some changes, keep noting them and see if they culminate to something big! Also, if what I am doing is working (meaning delaying the divorce) than I am supposed to keep doing it! But the book did remind me that I should be giving some positive signs or "throwing him a bone" every now and then because it will create a chain reaction.
I decided that from now on, I will greet him with enthusiasm and say goodbye with meaning, lol! I noticed today when he came in, I said "Hi!" (like I was happy to see him) and he lit up and said "hi!" right back.
I had some other thoughts but need to tend to S- however I had good news because I put on my size 14 jeans and they fit!! Yay-I will be able to wear my 12s in another 15 pounds!
holy moly- I turn on the TV and apparently TLC has a new show called "Your Kid Ate What?"
This will freak me out...
but I think they could also make a show called "Your spouse did What?"
So my other thoughts. As I was re-reading Divorcebusting, I saw the section on goals. I don't think I have ever set any!
I mean some for myself, but not for what I want WH to do or say.
So I need to think about that...
and I was feeling kind of numb when I pictured WH one day saying he made a mistake and wanted to come back. I know I love him, but shouldn't I feel butterflies thinking of that? Instead I feel absolutely NOTHING! I wonder how long it would take for my body to feel again?
Well I am probably going to sign up for golf lessons again. This course by my house sells 4 one hour group lessons (ladies only) for a total of $39! It is to get women to golf! I went a couple of years ago but WH and I only went once after that. He is a decent player (I must admit it is a turn on to see him swing that club on the driver's range! Maybe that is what I should picture when I want feelings for him to return to my body, lol!)
A recap of today...
WH arrived, I greeted him warmly (in my new tank top and PJ bottoms), he gave me big smile. I got busy looking up recipes to make a grocery list and then started cleaning stove in kitchen. WH was very chatty and I swatted his arm at one point because he said something funny (but I won't repeat it here!). I actually was the one to leave the locations where he was...and he actually came and found me when he wanted to tell me something!
I went upstairs to put away laundry, came down to work out, posted on here (was feeling low for some reason), then took a nap instead of working out but felt LOTS better! Got dressed,did toned down make up and hair, wore low cut blouse with flattering jeans. I came downstairs, played with S. WH made him bottle, came into room where I was playing with him, sat on couch where I was. I got up and left room to go hem some jeans, but felt bad for walking out of the room so I came back and talked about something.
WH took S to store, asked if I needed anything.He had mentioned some delicious deli meat from before, so I asked if he could get me some. I watched a cooking show and hemmed some jeans while they were gone and when they came back,WH immediately brought the meat over to me to taste (uh oh I could make a dirty joke but I won't). It was very good! I did tell him that I knew it would be, since he has good taste. (in food at least!)
So it came time for him to go. He said "I'll see you tomorrow!" and I said "Ok! See you tomorrow!" and when I heard him closing the door I said "Bye!" again. Up until now I have just been neutral about it. It's a little thing, ok? haha!
BTW I am developing a crush on Bobby Flay! Is he really as humble as he seems despite being sooooo talented???
That all sounds good. Eventually, you may be OW and she will be the ball and chain.
As I was re-reading Divorcebusting, I saw the section on goals. I don't think I have ever set any!
I mean some for myself, but not for what I want WH to do or say.
So I need to think about that...
Yes, and there's even a thread where you can get some help with them!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939171&page=1Figure out your goals there then come and post them here in your thread. We're starting a trend
Lotus, I feel weird thinking of myself as OW unless it can be "Original Woman!"
My recipe choice for dinner with friend:
Chicken breast stuffed with herbed goat cheese, roasted basil cherry tomatoes, couscous with currants
Source: Ina Garten
WH took photos of S and said he wished the camera would have an email function. After he left, I emailed him the pics (act of service!)
Thanks, FM! I scanned the thread you posted
here are 4:!
WH suggests we do something as family
WH will touch me/ not pull away if we touch
WH asks me about my activities/whereabouts (I want him to be curious....)
WH suggests we cook something together
Good start! Now pick 2-3 goals that could happen within a week or 2. Then for each goal, post what you could do (or try) to make it possible for that goal to be met.
Ok- WH suggests we do something as family...
I could bring up a couple of activities in conversation like the children's museum or a restaurant
WH suggests we cook something together...
I could ask him for ideas for what to cook for lunch or dinner, maybe on his day off that he spends here?
WH asks about my activities..
I could say "man, I had fun last night!: (lol- is this cheating to set him up like that?"
I have no clue how I could get him to touch me/ not pull away unless I brush past him on purpose
Hey NM!
The first time I talked with my DB coach she talked about me becoming the OW...I actually thought that sounded intriging! But, at this point, I don't expect that to happen. YOur chicken recipe sounds good! Let us know how it is! I like your goals!
Thanks CW!
Well, tonight I left to go to my wine meet up which ended up being a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT. I actually spent $30 on the cover for 3 tastes and 30 minutes! There were 100 people (literally!) and I didn't recognize the people I met from my last meet-up. I was underdressed and just felt very uncomfortable. So I left, called a friend and chatted for awhile, then took a long drive home. When I got home, WH didn't linger, but I noticed he emptied the dishwasher and cleaned some pots I had left in the sink. I think this means he wants to come back! (Just kidding- I am making fun of myself).
Seriously at one point I felt like I was in the Mean Girls movie because a group of girls asked me to take their picture. After I did, one said "I like your top...it's...fun!"
If you have seen the movie, OR if you are female, you know that is code for "OMG! What a HIDEOUS blouse you are wearing!" lol
It's okay...but tomorrow I won't see WH and will just hang out with S and find stuff for us to do. He needs another shot...we can also walk to the park...nothing thrilling.
However, I am aware that if WH divorces me, there are men who would want to date me! And that's all I will say about that! hee hee hee....
I love you newmama, you always cheer me up. I love your attitude and your optimism and your outlook on life. If your WH doesn't see what a great girl you are then he doesn't deserve you.
Mila, thank you! I do try and stay positive...I stay away from super sad movies and block out my childhood, LOL!
No, if it comes to D I will be very sad, bitter and negative for awhile. But until then or maybe it won't happen, gotta keep hoping and stick to the course!
Newmama {{hugs}} Limbo sucks.
Someone changed their name! Thanks for the hugs, C Bug! As usual, I feel better today!
I think S and I will go to the home improvement store where I will pick up flowers to plant in some pots and put on the deck. I will also look for the materials I need to make a toy box:
wood, brackets, screws...except we have a bunch of screws so just wood, brackets, and stain? And maybe wood glue and letters for my S' name?
We do need to get him another h1n1 vaccination so at some point I will take him!
AND I need to make my hair appointment- I gotta tell you that Heidi Klum's hairstyle on Project Runway this year is awesome! BUt I would want it a little longer.
Ok- WH suggests we do something as family..
I know I am being quiet but had to jump in here.
Is H for real?
No.
You're not a family.
Remember that.
If he wants to eat some cake let him find another bakery as Newmama's one is closed.
No. No. No. No.
No.
OK- I will scratch that goal!
OK- I will scratch that goal!
I think it maybe a step too far just now NM. The others seem to be good goals. Bringing him 'back' into YOUR family I think, at the moment, is a game I don't think he should be invited to yet.
Just my 2p worth.
Sorry you're still going through this. As C says, limbo does suck.
Good to see you on the alt though.
Glad to hear you got an ego boost out of it at least newmama!
I'm sure the guys see your spark right away. Social GAL can be challenging though...
NewmamaCordonBlue!
LOVE Heidi Klum's hair!!!
I like your goals, but agree w/P17. He's already enmeshed in your home... then going home to SkagHagBag. You're doing a FINE job of being the BETTER option! Keep at it. You will know when it's not right anymore.
You and lil man are more than enough reason!
Mindfull, your nickname for her is so much nicer than mine! I would never post it for it is way too offensive. Also, if you say it 3x, she appears in the mirror! (re: Beetlejuice + Bloody Mary game)
Just wanted to post some GAL efforts:
toy box project, planting flowers, cooking, new hair cut (will post on the alt when it's done), new shoes, new eyeglasses, donating S' old baby stuff to teen pregnancy center, playing new games/activities with S (learned from classes and online)
HIs latest favorite activities include having a blanket dropped over his head for 1 second for several times in a row, being dragged around the house on a blanket, and swinging at the park!
I get to go to a dress rehearsal show for America's Got Talented later this month, too.
Also, if you say it 3x, she appears in the mirror! (re: Beetlejuice + Bloody Mary game)
HAHAHAHAHAH!!! Thanks for a ROFL today!!!!! Too funny!
"HIs latest favorite activities include having a blanket dropped over his head for 1 second for several times in a row, being dragged around the house on a blanket, and swinging at the park!"
Give him a paper bag for a good laugh of your own!
I WILL TOTALLY try the paper bag idea! Good one, Whatnow! And if anyone else has play ideas, pass them along!
OK so I just got this text from WH:
"Just wanted to let you know that I have all Wednesdays off this month except the week of the 15th I have Friday the 19th off instead."
My birthday is the 19th. He takes S overnights on Fridays. For the past 8 months he has always had either Tues OR Wed off. (except Holidays) I know it is pointless to ask on this forum if his message strikes anyone as odd but come on....it's not just me is it? (my heart is pounding- I haven't replied)
Maybe put it back on him....Say "Oh. And so?"
Well I just replied with "so what day will you not be coming over that week?" because he takes a day off each week from coming over.
Hope that was "cool as a cucumber"
because I am not SUPPOSED to read anything into it. I just have to honestly admit that the last time I was caught off guard by him was when he asked if we wanted to get the Christmas tree together. But we all know what came of that...NOTHING.
He has "ruined" (his words) the last 2 birthdays for me.
NM, my kids used to love playing with the paper any present came wrapped in.
Not sure if you have these in US, but in OZ there's a thing called a "Jolly Jumper" - Google it. My kids would spend hours at a time just bouncing up and down like mini Bungie People.
So is your heart pounding in a good way or bad ?
I'm thinking you should say...
"H, how nice of them to give you my birthday off!"
LoL
OR
"Cool! Where are we going for my birthday?"
LoL
Then again, I give awful advice!!!
Heart was pounding in a good way! HE KNOWS my birthday is the 19th...he will be here all day that day now. So then I wondered if it was because he just made other plans for Wed or Tues.
So that is why I also asked him what day he won't be coming over that week.
He replied "Tues or Wed- either one works for me so whatever is best for you."
I want to reply "neither is best- just get your ass home!!!"
I won't see him today. But I think I will just not respond to him for awhile so that I can "make plans" and get back to him!
You know, I should probably guess that he is just being nice and giving me that day off in case I want to go do something since he takes S that night. You know?
So I am thinking that I should not mention my birthday at all, right? And just see what happens.
Mindfull, I could ask him "where are you taking me for my birthday?" that week!
OR what if I tell him "actually, I have plans on the 19th. S and I are doing something special as a family to celebrate my birthday."
!!!!do I have the nerve?????
<<<< Sending NERVE to NM!!! >>>>>
Thanks, MF, I think what happened is you sent me the nerve and I received a response in my gut that said "don't say anything at all." !!!
Thanks, MF, I think what happened is you sent me the nerve and I received a response in my gut that said "don't say anything at all." !!!
Don't say anything at all to him about your birthday. Family and friends celebrate your birthday with you. He is neither.
To wonder what he is thinking or why he took those days off is nothing more than mind reading. It won't do you any good and just keep you wondering 'what if'. Wondering 'what if' doesn't allow you to detach. You need to detach in order to move on with your life. When you do that things will happen.
When he texted you about his days off changing, I wouldn't have bothered responding. It wasn't a question. It didn't need a response.
So I will make plans and just not tell him. And I won't allow myself to get excited....believe nothing they say and half of what you see.
The only present I want is him to tell me he ended it with OW!
And I know better to think it means anything- how many others on the board had birthdays while their spouse was gone, you know??
So I will make plans and just not tell him. And I won't allow myself to get excited....believe nothing they say and half of what you see.
Well he hasn't said anything for you to get excited about, unfortunately.
The only present I want is him to tell me he ended it with OW!
You should focus on you though, not him. What he get's up to with OW is up to him. You concentrate on your life and S's life. Waiting for him to tell you it's over with OW is just focusing your mind on him and her. Wrong area to focus.
And I know better to think it means anything- how many others on the board had birthdays while their spouse was gone, you know??
Well me for one
And it was a GOOD birthday.
P don't worry- I am getting good at this (not expecting him to dump OW today or tomorrow so to speak) after being separated 11 months! I am living my life the best that I can under the circumstances I am choosing for myself...my choice and I own it!
But I am not obsessing over him as much as I used to yet I refuse to pretend that I don't think about him ;-)
BTW Blownaway, they do still make the johnny jumper! S has an "exersaucer" thingy that he bounces around in and loves!
anyone know why maybe it isn't working when I try control+v and control+c? Did I disable a function maybe?
I copied this from Flowmom's thread (thanks, FM!) And the statements in red are the ones I think I have mastered; the ones in green I am working on, and the rest is not completed!
What is detachment?
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself * Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.[/color[color:#009900]]
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you
he just called...said he wanted to know if I could reschedule ny hair appt because he needs to go to the dr tomorrow a.m. and is freaking out...so I asked why? he told me about the lump and then he said that today he went for an ultrasound and usually when they want to see you the next day it's not good.
I did my best to sound reassuring but let my concern show.
He really did sound scared! So I consulted some friends and asked if I should offer to go with him (via text). They both said yes. So I sent him a text and just said
" Let me know if you want us to go with you to give you moral support. You can see how you feel tomorrow and decide then."
He replied and said "Ok thanks! I should be ok! Have a good night and kiss that boy for me!"
Sometimes real life calls for ditching the DB robot temporarily!
I agree NM...I did that when my H went in for a stint! Hope all comes out ok! Thinking of you guys!
NM -
That's bad. Good job, on offering to take the little guy w/and be there for him.
I'll pray for him tonight.
Thank you CW and MF!! I'll let you know tomorrow!
I just think I should give him a hug or something. If he does have cancer, I will for sure. But the odds are against that most likely!
Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
I'm going to write this down and read it to myself everyday!
yikes...apparently if the ultrasound shows the growth/tumor is solid, the reading is considered "abnormal" and in order to biopsy the tumor, the most common approach is to REMOVE THE WHOLE TESTICLE. This means remove it to check for Cancer when there is a good chance it is NOT cancer.
However, the sex drive and ability to perform are not affected.
still, pretty scary to lose a part of your body....
(((Newmama))), that is scary. It must be really hard for you trying to strike a balance between wanting to be there for him, but also keeping in mind the situation. I hope that there is reassuring news soon.
Your going to hate what i have to say here.
Do not be there for him now.
Let him deal with this one completely on his own.
Acts of service.... Its a killer.
Act as if.
But only to him.
To the rest of the family act like newmama.
(((HUGS))) Newmama...I am sure this is very difficult for you, let us know how it all turns out.
Did you end up going with him to the appointment?
Your going to hate what i have to say here.
Do not be there for him now.
Let him deal with this one completely on his own.
Acts of service.... Its a killer.
Act as if.
But only to him.
To the rest of the family act like newmama.
I hate to say it, but I agree with CB. Tough love.
I too agree- it would be easy to get sucked in to being there and offering comfort-but that would be for his needs and he will not reciprocate... as is, that is no longer your job.
Well they are going to do a biopsy of the lump without removing the whole testicle (we are adults here so I am using appropriate anatomy talk!). Still he will be going to sleep for it. And I offered to bring S to see him but he said he would be fine. I was such an idiot-- it dawned on me that of course he would need someone to drive him home if he was put under...so SHE WILL BE THERE I am sure. He hasn't even told his family about this yet.
So without even needing to listen to the tough love being advised, I feel conflicted. How do I act when the father of my son and the only love of my life is going through this scary situation?
I will never ever ever be heartless and cold. Sorry. But I did this much and it is all for now:
Yesterday I gave him a hug when he returned. We both cried. I haven't hugged him in....7 months I think. It felt amazing. I cried openly in front of him. (Quietly) He took S to get a shot and while he was gone I went to the store. I picked up a care package of his favorite treats. I told him that if he needed anything I would be there. Then the very last thing today is I texted "I'll be thinking of you. I am sure the procedure will go smoothly." It was embedded in information about S. He didn't even say thank you. Just "I'll let you know when I wake up."
Curtain closed....am turning off the loving behavior other than asking how he is feeling. If he chooses her to be there right now, then he won't get me to take care of him. I get it. My body always knows the right thing to do, and my body felt nauseous thinking of going with him to treatment, etc. while he is with her. (My body hasn't felt nauseous letting him come over and see S!)
I do not want to hear 2x4s- this is serious stuff. I do not regret doing it.But don't worry, I know without anyone telling me that it is wrong of me to do any more- to support or help him. I guess I shouldn't have said "I will be there if you need me."
So what phrase can I say if he asks me to do something (I don't have a clue what) after I already said the above????help please!
So what phrase can I say if he asks me to do something (I don't have a clue what) after I already said the above????help please!
If he asks you to do anything, after you've offered, you can only do it. Within reason of course. Otherwise what was the point in offering.
Remember, people say all the time 'if I can do anything please let me know' - it's being polite. However, saying you will be thinking of him is just politeness.
None of us is asking you to be heartless, cold or anything else that would change who you are. What we are all saying is that this is a perfect opportunity for H to realise what he has lost. While you are there offering to be around, being helpful, giving him time with S etc. then he will not realise this. You need to pull the rug from underneath him. This is a perfect opportunity to do this.
However cruel, heartless and cold it sounds, he started this game. You are only playing by the rules HE LAID DOWN. You need to win the game, either to win yourself back or him. Either way, you need to win.
My advice is to stay away from the hospital unless he asks otherwise. Let him deal with this with, or without OW, on his own. He is a big boy. He can handle it. Remember they are simply doing a standard procedure, a biopsy. They would do the same procedure with me, your dad, my dad, CB etc. etc.
I think this is also a perfect time for you to evaluate how far several months of DBing has taken you.
I also hate to say this but you need to ACCEPT that he is with OW. The quicker you accept this, the quicker you can detach. I hate to say, it's clear to me, you haven't.
Tough Love.
Newmama, we all get that this is serious stuff, possibly life threatening - and you've got no reason to regret showing concern for H.
Hard as it is for me to say though, I gotta agree with P17 on this.
Everything I've learned here in the last few months points to the WAS having to hit rock bottom before they will look back at what they've lost.
Tough Love - and be strong.
Cindy:
I can't offer much but a hug. I would do the same thing you did, and, apparently Cutter/Chatter and P17 think differently. I don't know P17, but Cutter/Chatter is someone that has come through this process an amazing man of amazing character, with his heart NOT hardened through the process. Talk it through with him. Seriously.
My thoughts. I'm always avail when on the alt to throw ideas around, laugh to get your mind off of things, and/or cry to. I am your friend.
thank you all!!! I guess I don't accept he is "with" OW because he is not receiving mail at her house and has not divorced me.
You are right, blownaway, that this could be his rock bottom. Hell, it might be mine! I don't know. We'll see soon. I promise!
{{hugs}}
This sucks. And thats that.
But. You can love from the distance.
If he has OW there taking care of him. It answers a few questions.
Life gives us some very hard choices. And sometimes the difficult path is the one to take. The path where you step out of your comfort zone. Love him from far.
NM, I think your reaction was to the idea of the "C" word, not the actual procedure, which is actually a very minor one. I know that having a loved one "go under" is a bit scary - H has had several operations. But I hope that you can emotionally put the brakes on your reaction until there are facts about his health status. Even if there is a real reason for concern about his health, you are in a tough place because you will have to manage your feelings and still DB as long as OW is on the scene.
Working from now, you've put yourself out there and shown your beautiful heart...and that may have been a good thing. But now pull back and let him find in his heart where he needs you and no-one else. The last thing that you need right now is to take on a "mommy/nursemaid" role with him. Let OW fuss over him...you still need to be the b!itch (referring to the WMLB book).
He knows that you're nurturing and caring and that you love him...Maybe a 180 for you is putting yourself out there and not following up in any way and keeping the ball in his court? Not showing concern or asking for updates. Letting him volunteer the details.
CB's right that he's choosing OW to be there in his time of vulnerability. That takes away your option of putting your heart on your sleeve I'm afraid.
(((newmama)))
I just heard from him- he was out of it but said they were surprised and it looks benign. They'll know for sure today or tomorrow a.m.
Phew!
Now I am pissed. as in angry, not drunk! (not to get lost in translation)
Glad to hear it's looking good ...
Now I am pissed. as in angry, not drunk! (not to get lost in translation)
Why?
I need to wait for my brain to inform me...seriously I am a weirdo with emotions because my body freaks out first (as in I want to cry or scream, or throw up or run) and I don't know first why.
My hunch is that it is related to this scary event taking place and WH chose to tell me about it but didn't choose to ask me to be there. So what does he want?
Please no need to respond to my question- I am just processing. I do know that my instinct is to pull waaaaay back after putting myself out there yesterday.
And FM, you are right- I was upset about the big C more than the procedure although my friend informed me they ask the men "do you want more children? If so, bank your sperm" So if they asked him that with OW there and if they had to do all the other explanation of the procedure with her there...it just sucks.
He was with me with my laparoscopy awhile back and of course with birth of our son.
I don't need to hear what an a-hole he is and how I am a doormat etc. etc. Sorry just need to express my thoughts! I am ready for some jokes again....MF?
I don't need to hear what an a-hole he is and how I am a doormat etc. etc. Sorry just need to express my thoughts! I am ready for some jokes again....MF?
I don't think anybody on here thinks you're a doormat. You're hurt and upset ... take the time to process it and come back.
What you need is a hug ... {{{HUG}}}
Thank you everyone for the hugs! And the bear hugs from my guy friends are especially appreciated! (lol hee hee!)
let's just say I won't have to try very hard to be "distant" with WH!
(((newmama)))
That is great news. And it totally makes sense that you'd feel angry about making yourself vulnerable for something that turned out to be not a concern. Health crises are really intense for everyone.
Take all that loving/caring energy that you were ready to pour into H if he needed it, and pour it into you and your life.
More ((((((HUGS)))))
Personally, I am HAPPY you are feeling angry! I think it is therapeutic!
BTW, what the heck is the alt and how do I join it?
ravenly you might want to check out the DB page on facebook.
yes and then you join and tell us? then we request you as a friend?
NM-hope that all comes out well with your H. I too had hoped that after my H got his heart stint put in that it would scare him and make him realize what he was doing but unfortunately, it didn't...I really think it fed him deeper into his MLC. But, eveyone handles things differently. Your H's OW is someday going to get tired of your H not moving on and divorcing you. And, if they asked about him having more kids, that had to have been weird for him to answer that in front of her, IF, she was indeed in there with him. You can do this!!!
How do I find the DB page on Facebook? I found the "fan page"...But I don't think I can join that page and "hang" with everyone there.
ravenly-Become a fan of DB and and look at the fans and you will find names you recognize! NM's is easy!
ok if you are the only one, I requested you! And sent you a message!
Well, am shaking off my friend's comment: Newmama, now you REALLY know where you stand if he didn't ask YOU to be with him for the biopsy! (where you need someone to drive you home)
And my aunt said "Sweetie, I just think that this happened so fast for WH and he has been with OW for almost a year now that of course he would ask her to help him.If he doesn't ask you, I think it's because he feels he doesn't deserve you. But it's how he will feel after this event that may make him reflect on what he wants- he just found out 2 days ago. Do you really think he would dump his girlfriend of 11 months overnight as soon as he learned he could have cancer?"
And my mom said "I have no doubt that he was facing his mortality and thinking about who he wants. Just remember, you can do whatever YOU want-it's your life and the best case scenario is that you look back on this 40 years from now, still together and call it the year from Hell. Worst case is, aside from my grandchild growing up in a broken home is that your heart was broken and you took a year of your life to not end your marriage or to date someone."
Both are happily married to their 3rd husbands....
Both are happily married to their 3rd husbands....
That is all good advice NM but you need to look after you and all this time, even with the GALing I don't think you've been doing that.
All of those comments are looking at what he is thinking, what he is doing and what he is wanting. You need to switch that off and starting looking at what YOU are thinking, what YOU are doing and what YOU are wanting.
Newmama, I sent you a friend request...WOW are you GORGEOUS!!!!!!! Sorry, but WH is a darn FOOL!!
NM-hate to say it but agree with P17!!! But, I do think it is normal to slip into the "what H is thinking mode" once in awhile. You are doing so well at making a life for you and little guy!!!
nm, I would not try to read anything into who H asked to be with him. It would be mindreading. The possibilities are endless.
He didn't ask you b/c he is afraid you would say no, is my guess, but no one can guess, and you can't tell "where you stand" based on anything he is doing right now. I know you already know that!
Today is new day!
He didn't ask you b/c he is afraid you would say no, is my guess, but no one can guess, and you can't tell "where you stand" based on anything he is doing right now. I know you already know that!
When you do stop and say "it doesn't matter where I stand with him, I want to know where I stand with me"?
He isn't thinking clearly right now. We all get that. But there has to come a point when that no longer can be the LBS's problem.
P you are right. I know where I stand with me-not ready for a divorce. I am in limbo and I think it is normal for this kind of situation (big C scare) to make anyone speculate about their spouse and feel rejected yet AGAIN for not being asked to go when I offered.
Still I need a place to vent, even if means mind reading! And I know I could write it in a journal. But I do want help from time to time!
So I want to post something today and hopefully by doing so, can move on from it:
WH texted to say he was sore and wouldn't be able to visit S for awhile. He is checking with his dr. to see what she says aboout driving. I think this is excellent because if he was home with me, he wouldn't have to go a week without seeing his bundle of joy!
And one more thing-I think I saw somewhere that he won't be able to "do the deed" (or the w----) for 3 weeks? So it will be interesting to see what happens when they don't share that together...and if abstinence clears his head!
Last, my goal is first to bust the divorce but I know that WH is still having an A. I can't do anything more to end the A. That is up to him.If he ends the A before I lose my patience, please know that I am not going to accept him with open arms and no consequences! That is a whole other thread!
It really is up to me for how long I will wait. And I do not have to set a deadline. I will know when I'm ready!:-)
SO now that this cancer scare is over with, I will be back to GAL and I am ready to not worry what he thinks of me. BUT I will still curious about what he's thinking although I'm past obsession now. It will be more like a wandering thought every now and then.
I feel like taking S to the coast today! I wish I had someone to go with us though!Anyone want to fly out? lol
P you are right. I know where I stand with me-not ready for a divorce. I am in limbo and I think it is normal for this kind of situation (big C scare) to make anyone speculate about their spouse and feel rejected yet AGAIN for not being asked to go when I offered.
Newmama, I feel a sh*t for saying what I did. I feel like I'm bursting your bubble but I feel I need to say it for your sake. Remember it was me, you, Cutter (as he was then) and DbD all in here on our ownsome posting on each others threads. We've come through this with you from the start and I will only speak for myself here but I really do care about what is going on between you and WH to the extent (believe it or not) I actually had a rotten night's sleep thinking about your sitch (not looking for sympathy - just a fact!). That makes it all the more difficult to say it.
However, it does need to be said, out of caring and not out of vindictiveness. And to quash any question of something posted yesterday, my heart is not closed or bitter.
WH texted to say he was sore and wouldn't be able to visit S for awhile. He is checking with his dr. to see what she says aboout driving. I think this is excellent because if he was home with me, he wouldn't have to go a week without seeing his bundle of joy!
That is good. He may see that his actions have consequences.
And one more thing-I think I saw somewhere that he won't be able to "do the deed" (or the w----) for 3 weeks? So it will be interesting to see what happens when they don't share that together...and if abstinence clears his head!
If WH has had it removed, he won't be doing much of anything (driving, walking, sitting or the other) for quite some time - three weeks I would say is a little optimistic!
Last, my goal is first to bust the divorce but I know that WH is still having an A. I can't do anything more to end the A.
I actually disagree with that last statement. I think you can stop visitation with S at your home, go dim, dark or pitch black (you choose). Dating? You've mentioned that in the past. There are lots of other things you can try to force him to make a decision either way - remember WAS's are cowards; they generally need to be pushed to make a decision.
Have you measured how far DBing has taken you along the road to busting the D or the A?
It really is up to me for how long I will wait. And I do not have to set a deadline. I will know when I'm ready!:-)
You're absolutely right. Only you know. You're the one on the ground. But make sure you do it before you get bitter or hatred creeps in. These are bad emotions to have for us all.
SO now that this cancer scare is over with, I will be back to GAL and I am ready to not worry what he thinks of me. BUT I will still curious about what he's thinking although I'm past obsession now.
I hope you get to the point where you will stop being curious about what he's thinking altogether. That's when you will truly detach.
And if I had the money, I'd fly out, believe me. You are a good, strong, committed and loyal person and somebody I would want to be in my circle of friends. I hope YOU realise that though.
Newmama, your H is the father of your child and he will always be a part of your life and someone who you are connected to. You'll probably always think about him.
My father died when I was 3 and my mother told me when I was an adult that she thinks about him every day, even though she abandoned him before he died (she had good reasons).
I hope that you feel comfortable with sharing your thoughts here. You don't have to DB in the forum, this is your safe place to be honest with yourself about where you are on your journey.
hey newmama... DB asked me last week to visit.
haven't read your thread, but sending hugs (((Newmama)))
Hi Saint! (hee hee!) If you read my signature you will see the story. They haven't told me to start a new thread so I am keeping this one intact :-)
Newmama, I feel a sh*t for saying what I did. I feel like I'm bursting your bubble but I feel I need to say it for your sake. Remember it was me, you, Cutter (as he was then) and DbD all in here on our ownsome posting on each others threads. We've come through this with you from the start and I will only speak for myself here but I really do care about what is going on between you and WH to the extent (believe it or not) I actually had a rotten night's sleep thinking about your sitch (not looking for sympathy - just a fact!). That makes it all the more difficult to say it.
P, I was not offended! I know you are a tough love friend! I really need to hear all angles and absorb them, even if I don't agree! It brought tears to my eyes to read you couldn't sleep because you were thinking of my sitch! Don't worry- I am tough. Seriously, I won't go into it, but I have had plenty of bumps in my life so I am built to be resilient! (and there are others who had it waaaaay worse so I don't feel sorry for myself- EVER. well okay maybe once in a blue moon lol)
However, it does need to be said, out of caring and not out of vindictiveness. And to quash any question of something posted yesterday, my heart is not closed or bitter.
I hope I didn't say anything like your heart is closed or bitter! I see you as a very loving, caring, generous person! Look at the kind of father you are as well as friend! (and Lady P's boyfriend!)
Quote:
And one more thing-I think I saw somewhere that he won't be able to "do the deed" (or the w----) for 3 weeks? So it will be interesting to see what happens when they don't share that together...and if abstinence clears his head!
If WH has had it removed, he won't be doing much of anything (driving, walking, sitting or the other) for quite some time - three weeks I would say is a little optimistic!
He only had the lump removed! He is able to drive I guess. He will be visiting S tomorrow but he can't lift more than 15 pounds so I can't leave him alone with him.
Quote:
Last, my goal is first to bust the divorce but I know that WH is still having an A. I can't do anything more to end the A.
I actually disagree with that last statement. I think you can stop visitation with S at your home, go dim, dark or pitch black (you choose). Dating? You've mentioned that in the past. There are lots of other things you can try to force him to make a decision either way - remember WAS's are cowards; they generally need to be pushed to make a decision.
I agree that he is a coward. But like I have said from the start and believe every day, when I accept that divorce is okay with me, then I will go dark.
I have thought about the visitation at my house. Poor S would have to be picked up 5:30, driven somewhere, fed, bathed, then driven home and wouldn't be able to go to bed until 8:30. Only every other day. It is better for S if WH comes here and I leave. Which I have done a better job of! Someone suggested getting a babysitter to be present for WH when he arrives but I would still see him when I came back home.
BUt I don't think I can date. My "body" doesn't like that idea! Well I'm sure it would but I'm saying is dating for me doesn't feel right. I am fine with flirting though!wink wink, hubba hubba, hug hug ! (lol)
Have you measured how far DBing has taken you along the road to busting the D or the A?
DBing has helped to stall the D at the minimum. I also have increased my hobbies, gained control over my emotions, and am starting to feel good about myself again.
Stopping the A is NOT something I can do. There are no guarantees. It needs to be his call. I agree that I could "close the bakery." Well, all that is left is me around the house on his day off when he visits. I could tell him that he can take S with him on those days. I'll think about it...
You're absolutely right. Only you know. You're the one on the ground. But make sure you do it before you get bitter or hatred creeps in. These are bad emotions to have for us all.
I will never hate WH. I am weird.
I hope you get to the point where you will stop being curious about what he's thinking altogether. That's when you will truly detach.
Yeah. if we divorce I will! I cannot detach unless I went dark or we divorced.
And if I had the money, I'd fly out, believe me. You are a good, strong, committed and loyal person and somebody I would want to be in my circle of friends. I hope YOU realise that though.
THANK YOU for thinking highly of me! I respect you so much, P! I hope there is a DB convention one day so we can all meet!
FM thanks for encouraging me to feel safe to be honest!!! I know you seem to be able to do it so it inspires me to do the same.
A few things...
#1 - You don't have to ask me 10 times if I would want to go to the coast!
#2 - Hi SAINT! LoL
I'm gone all weekend. Behave!
HUGS!
newmama did you consider that maybe he didn't want you at the hospital with him because he was being "considerate" . Maybe he thought that it's to much to ask because you would have to deal with him and the baby. Just a thought......
Thanks for thinking positive Mila! But I really think it was b/c OW offered and since he is in a relationship with her, what do you expect.
While I was offering to go, I didn't even think of her (???) but he didn't tell me that she was there. We never speak of her...like that movie The Village. "We don't speak of those who..." I need to look it up!
He said "I'll be okay. It's in office procedure...if it was the hospital that would be different!" But he was going under which requires getting a ride home.
WH texted me 26 times today. (re: S and his procedure)
WH texted me 26 times today. (re: S and his procedure)
Cake eating NM ...
WH texted me 26 times today. (re: S and his procedure)
Is this new for him? Texting so much? If yes I would take is as positive
Interesting! I hope you're being a "b!tch" about it
ok well to be fair, it may have been more like 9 times with 2-3 texts each!
P how is it cake eating when he asks about S and his cold, plans for visiting and how he is feeling after the procedure?
But the most I have heard from him via text in the past was like 4 or 5 times! So to me, it is above baseline.
And I have been replying when I've had time! Have been a little distracted... so I feel totally in control of myself!
So he comes to visit tomorrow. Like I said before now that he doesn't have cancer I am curious to see if his actions change back to before...he has amped up the acts of service, made big efforts to hold conversation, and it "feels" different somehow. Coincidentally he found the lump 2 weeks ago. So who knows?
I will just try to be objective, report his actions, and think "interesting. but he's still with OW." Then shrug.
I meant to say in the last 2-3 weeks he's amped things up!
Ok so today he was here 2.5 hours- said he would be here between 12-1 and ended up getting here before 12! Secretly I have been thinking that if he gets here earlier on a regular basis then that is good! (just being honest about my thoughts!)
So I couldn't exactly avoid him today because he couldn't lift S. I felt sooo stupid because I accidentally said
"I am asking your sister if she can babysit S so I can get my hair done. I was sure to butter her up with starting the text with "MY favorite Sister in law!" Uhh...don't know what to call her right now! BUt I pretended I didn't realize what I said!
And he showed me his scar...(TMI but it is not graphic)he came out of the bathroom with his pants unzipped but his underwear was on. I jokingly said "XYZ! You forgot to button your pants!" with a smile (couldn't help it, ok?) well he smiled back and said "I'm going to show you my scar" And it is on the side--very long incision!
He was hurting like crazy and was worn out. I told him that I know he wants to see S but he really should relax tomorrow so he can recover sooner than later!
So he will play it by ear.
He sure got choked up a lot while talking about S!
I am feeling confident with more weight loss so I was strutting a bit, I think!
He made other small talk about other stuff. I really was busy doing some chores around the house but I couldn't stay away too long because S needed to be picked up. He said he won't be able to pick him up until Thursday but wants to be here as much as he was before! But hopefully tomorrow he won't come. I seriously don't feel like seeing him too much because this C scare really made me realize how much I love him and how much he is hurting me!!!!
By the way..."interesting that he was early and was sensitive about S and he made effort to have conversation and referenced our history together. But he is still with c*&^face" (Shrug!)
UGH, I can only imgine...
Sounds like you handled everything well...good for you. Keep it up!!
Newmama, I love that you're strutting!
guess I got my wish- WH texted to say he will rest so that he can be in top shape tomorrow and the rest of the week. He asked about S. I replied "he slept great! I understand!"
then he asked about S' cold and cough
I replied "it seems like the same"
then he said "well at least he is sleeping well most of the time- give him a kiss for me"
I SHOULD have said "I will!"
BUT I added TLC- "I will! Rest up so you can see him soon and take your pain meds bc pain is exhausting and stressful for your body(TRUST ME I KNOW!)
That last comment is because I have Rheumatoid Arthritis but have also given birth, lol! I wonder if he might take the other meaning behind that- emotional pain! But that is not what I meant although it is true.
Oh yeah yesterday I sent him with some medicine (won't say because it is TMI). I actually think he will use it so OW might see it! I remember when OW befriended WH she sent him some prescription codeine cough medicine and I was VERY OFFENDED- territorial! It was a BLOOD RED FLAG!
text tonight from H: How's S doing? I rested all day although it's hard for me to do. I feel less sore now. I sure miss that little boy!
Me: He's good! He misses his daddy too! Glad you're less sore.
H: you guys have a good night!
Me: thanks- you too!
I wanted to say a lot more but didn't..I know I said too much. Will get better at this.
Newmama,
keep it up. Even though your husband seems like he is trying to be a good father; however, he would be an even better father once he is a good husband (same for my husband).
however, he would be an even better father once he is a good husband (same for my husband).
completely! I have a lot I want to tell him one day if he will let me vent!
FM- I think bitches strut! lol
For me to R, I expect for my WH to:
-get a job transfer (works with OW)
-go to IC and FT (thanks Allen!)
-LISTEN to me express all the damage and pain he caused (Yep, you gotta hear it) and REPEAT BACK what I said
-be extremely transparent w/ cell phones, bills, email, daily schedules and tell me when OW will contact him (because the OPs always resurface)
-tell me what the hell he was thinking and answer any question I have, agree to talk to me about the A every day and for as long as I need (NOT SAY "GET
OVER IT")and not get angry when I want to talk about it
-agree to the same boundaries about friends of the opposite sex (like don't have any unless they are part of a married couple and we see them together -avoid slippery slopes) I am confused about what to do with the male friends I have made here on DB though!
-tell me all of the things he cherishes in me- why does he want to be married to me?
-agree that both of us will express whenever we are upset with the other person and tell them what we need from them
-understand that I will be jealous, paranoid and cry a lot for awhile until we get through this and he needs to be patient and not mad when I do
On my part, I will promise to not act like I am better than him or that I could never have an affair (because I believe we are all vulnerable but need to have clear boundaries and choose to commit), and not to bring up the fact that he had the A every time we argue about something, and promise to open my heart to trust him again and forgive him as long as he does the above.
don't get excited- WH hasn't said anything about wanting to R but I have never posted what my conditions for R would be.
I also want him to swear to never say "Shooowee!" when S has a poopy diaper and not to say "You're all right!" when S gets upset because OW always says those things and I hear him say them over here when he is with S. (I remember her saying those things in summer 08 and they bugged me then!)
lol!
So eliminate any trigger I ask him to!
and if he can't agree to do the above then I can't agree to stay married to him. DEAD SERIOUS!!!
I just want the option to R...and then will see if he actually has what it takes to do it.
I have learned that if I had to I could be a single mom. I don't like it and it is hard.
But I think anyone that wants kids should prepare themselves for that possibility because their spouse could die...not necessarily just because they could divorce them. I was naive and never really thought of that possibility (either or) and wish I did before agreeing to have a child but I am grateful I have S!!
Newmama,
It's good to think about what you would need to reconcile. But my advice to you is to not set your feet in concrete. If, and when, you reconcile, it will be a process. And it may not be exactly as you envision. In fact, few things in life are ever as we imagine they will be. So yes, know what you want, but you still need to be able to dance.
If, and when, you reconcile, it will be a process.
yes indeed! Thanks for reading my looooong post Lotus!
So eliminate any trigger I ask him to!
Or claim them as your own.
Thanks Cbug but how do I claim a trigger as my own? Seriously- like the songs he listened to that I know were from her, the type of wine that he suddenly liked to drink, the shirts he bought while with her...
I have been down this road with him last January! I asked him to delete songs from his i-pod (found them saved under a different folder later- [censored]!), throw away this DVD she bought him, threw away scarves she knitted for both of us, obviously eliminate her from his phone and email, stop getting Starbuscks peppermint mochas for awhile (hey there was a reason for that!)
and I must say it felt really good to not have those reminders around! but alas, it was all for naught! I did have a hefty list of other things on there and was surprised when he crossed everything off within a few days. I just wasn't good at spying on his phone activity...
Your list looks pretty good- I would rec. that most of those things take place w/in the FT appointments- as for his thinking, his actions, etc.
I only now realize how much damage my MC did w/ W and I- so take Allen's advice about a good- pro M FT.
I made my appt in a rush (poor decision), and when I asked her if she was pro-M...she said "I've never been asked that before."
Shame on me!!!
Good call Maynard! Thanks for the suggestion. OK now I must focus on reality and the present lol but you know what? If you don't dream it, it won't happen!
DBing has helped to stall the D at the minimum. I also have increased my hobbies, gained control over my emotions, and am starting to feel good about myself again.
Stopping the A is NOT something I can do. There are no guarantees. It needs to be his call. I agree that I could "close the bakery." Well, all that is left is me around the house on his day off when he visits. I could tell him that he can take S with him on those days. I'll think about it...
that is really good! starting to feel good about yourself is the most important part of the equation. If we do not love ourselves, how can we love others, and how can they love us? it won't happen.
and stopping the A....you never want to force them to stop the A. you want that to be THEIR decision. And because you have been DBing, and it has stalled the D, that is because he doesn't know what he wants and he is confused, and that what YOU want. you want him to be confused as heck.
anyways, I can see that I will not have time to read the thread or follow too closely, so I hope that I can give you good advice.
btw, may I ask what WH and BW is? what is the W and B for. thanks!
Hi Saint! Well WH is Wayward Husband, BW is betrayed wife and OP is other person. I just refuse to not refer to my H as H until he becomes a former- then he will be a FWH and then eventually he will be a H again lol! (IF we R)
Well you see my sig for a recap but some other important tidbits include that he works with OW (although she is now in a different work group so they see each other way less but still see each other at work).
He was renting an apartment last I asked but Ihaven't asked in awhile, However, he is staying at her place!
His mail comes here still.
90% of his stuff is here. I have taken down our wedding photos and asked him to give me his ring and put it with my ring in a safe place.
I have gone from seeing him every time he comes over (6 days per week) to filling my time so that I see him mostly just on his day off from work. I was cooking for him and now have the leftovers in the fridge if he is interested.
I never ever ever ask about our R and never ever cry in front of him (not since 10/14/09).
He has made random comments about the future that refer to sharing custody of S but then makes random comments about how we will need to work on the yard, repair the house. He often refers to shared history between us (in a positive way- like "we went to the coast during that storm, remember?" "we loved going there for breakfast" etc.)
And I think I have gone from analyzing every tiny thing from facial expressions to tones of voice, to the time of day he sends his text asking about S...and am now noticing "bigger" things like acts of service, whether or not he lingers, how he took the day off on my birthday, and the number of text messages he sends. I JUST DOUBT THAT THE WH CHOOSES TO RECONCILE WITHOUT ANY WARNING! I think I will see some changes in his behavior and get 2x4s from friends on here for "mind reading" or "worrying too much about him" but how will I know if I don't observe these things? LOL
that's just it, if you're aware of them and of the characteristics of the wayward that Allen gave in another thread (OIN)- you have no reason to mindread or overanalyze.
I wish I knew this stuff a few months back- and if you keep detached and w/ that inside knowledge about the flightiness, pessimistic, impulsive, negative, etc etc...all you have to do is rise above and not feed into it.
I feel your pain@!!!! I do the same w/ W
Ya know I think you are doing great newmama.
I am concerned tho. And this is 98% projecting my own sitch.
Think about this:
Is it possible that H now feels he has the best of both worlds, and is able to keep both women happy?
I know it is akin to mind-reading but I see a permanent situation developing here. Maybe it is time to change up some things? Maybe go into spock mode instead of cheerful nm?
I kind of agree with WhatNow. I can see how husband might be starting to get comfortable. Are you ready for NC...similar to what Allen suggested for mb28. Arrange to have a babysitter and have your husband take the baby with him instead of lingering at your house. He has the best of both worlds right now. Its your call though because I know how difficult it is with a young baby.
I wonder what would happen if you acted like you've started a
very discreet R that is taking up your time and making you less available to him. Suddenly there aren't any leftovers because someone else is eating his dinner! You're distracted and can't focus on your WH. You're getting texts from someone else. Flowers occasionally appear.
Just brainstorming here. Confused=good. Comfortable=not necessarily what you want to continue for much longer. But what do I know??
but I see a permanent situation developing here
I hear you all! BUT I haven't told you that I won't do this forever and I would love to hear of a real life example where the WH continued this for ever (in the U.S. and the BW accepted it) lol! I doubt it! Unless it was in The Sopranos!
I really am cherishing all the time I get to have with S- 7 days per week. He was just born 8 months ago. If we divorce, I won't get him 7 days. So I kinda want to continue seeing him as long do you get that it? :-)
However, the LATEST I would wait before going NC is August because I go back to work. To me, as I have said several times, NC=willing to divorce. FOR MY SITCH-not everyone!:-)
So when I am ready to face the possibility of divorce, I will go NC.
My senses are telling me something is up with WH...not in a bad way. Don't know anything else!
Again, I do not want to go NC
maynard, please direct me to the location of Allen's post about signs that the wayward spouse wants to R!
yikes I sounded really defensive. Sorry. I do need to hear all opinions.
Now as for doing something different I kind of have been and won't share but Flowmom knows!
Let's just say I have an innocent distraction!
yikes August is 5 months away...maybe July? 4 months? S will be 1.
it's posted in "how to expose the A"
BUT people in affairs and even who are just wayward and sad will ASSUME the WORST and JUMP to conclusions...
waywards are
Impulsive
Negative
Cynical
Moody
Presumptuous
Angry
Miserable
Flighty
Erratic
Etc... these behaviours in my opinion and people showing them are NOT in a place to make ANY decisions about their marriage, I think the BEST thing for them is to EXPLORE their marriage again under the safe guidance of a GOOD FT.
Far too often they DON'T go to counselling when feeling like this, they find a female "friend" who has a shoulder to cry on...
You know the rest...
Oh, sorry this is a list of attributes of waywards...not sure about when waywards want to R.
Bear in mind when they are "trying" these attributes are common as well.
awww...no worries newmama. I understand how we all have to do things on our own time. I probably should have moved out and back with my parents A LONG TIME AGO. As I look back I can say that I should've moved out sooner due to some of husbands' behavior but I wasn't ready. I moved when I felt good about it and now I don't have any regrets because I did it on my time, when I was comfortable with the possibility that me moving might mean that it was one step closer to divorce. Don't want divorce but it had to sink in FOR ME that my current situation wasn't going anywhere.
BTW, my son turns 1 in mid-April :-) We both had very eventful years in 2009 :-)
Hey, Miss Innocent...
Do you know what you need to do?
Give yourself a reasonable deadline to reconsider your options, let stuff just "be" for awhile,
be YOU, not the you that MIGHT affect WAH
And, take good notes. Take the pressure off of "the prize".
You are a superb catch! Have your fun, be you, enjoy that little guy, and re-evaluate then! THIS is a terrible distraction...
I'm afraid you're going to end up like me (at the end of 2009), robotic(esque), "voice" paralyzed by NOT speaking up about R for almost a year, and suddenly fearful of a a negative response.
I'll talk to you in the alt, but GNO has been guiding me a bit, and it's a start, that's starting to look up.
HUGS
Newmama. I have sent a friend your way.... Listen to her.
I didn't mean NC nm. Just change things up. Maybe make him work a bit harder.
For example: Don't be cheerful and pleasant. That will be difficult for you b/c it ooozes out of you!
You are right, you don't want to force anything. You do not have to be happy with him and his behavior either. What would he miss most about you that he is still getting? Friendship?
I am just suggesting you 180 a few things, or 1!
Stop looking for signs! Be ready for BOTH possibilities.
If he wants to come home, what would you say?
Go live alone for awhile? (IMHO a good idea so you don't have to watch any withdrawal stuff)
MC to explore the possibility of him coming home?
Don't make it easy for him.
Thank you all for not getting annoyed with me for being defensive!
I know what I will do if he wants to file. I will remind him that I was willing to make our marriage better than before and this is 100% his choice. Tell him I will let him have one day to get the stuff he wants while I take S with me to a friend's. Tell him we are not friends, just co-parents.That we need to exchange S like every other divorced couple. That I don't want to live in the house (it's in his name) so I will be moving out by 3 months from now. I think that's it.
Well I am reluctant to change much more because I have been occupying myself and receiving more effort on his part. So shouldn't I be doing more of the same? And
please remind me why/how it could be beneficial to not act pleasant but be Spock like. What will I be looking for from WH?
Remember-I observed these changes in WH I think starting about 3 weeks ago but of course last week had the cancer scare. So I am saying 2 weeks. I think I should live in Latin America or Hawaii or something because they move at a slower pace and everyone else here seems to be in more of a hurry than I am! lol which is 180 for me but that was before I met you all.
About him wanting to come home- I will think about it. There are cons to living apart after an A has recently ended.
NM- did something happen or are just setting some deadlines?
CW I just have been thinking is all- WH pissed me off with his cancer scare (I am really sorry to say that to you, a cancer survivor!) and then I have been alone with S for 5 days now minus 2 hours.
And just have a peaceful feeling for some reason. Am feeling optimistic! ???? my gut is telling me something.
Ok good! I didn't go back and read everything and was worried by your last post! What is it they say about a woman's intuition?? I really hope you are right!!!
NM, trust your instincts. If the limbo isn't driving you nuts, then it shouldn't be driving us nuts. Let's find out what's brewing. You're right that there have been changes and I think that you are right to be patient and figure out what they mean, because it's not clear yet. You have a deadline and I think that's wise. That's exactly what my IC just recommended for me - to pick my own deadline and stick to it. And you are making changes...your H will pick up on them, subconsciously at least. Hugs!
Thanks Flowmom! I just read a fabulous NC letter that Allen posted on mb28's thread. So, I am thinking that (and I am scared to say the month in case I chicken out) I will go until maybe May, then try the NC letter before just up and asking for an ultimatum or D. Because I need 3 months to find a place and don't want to do it when I am trying to deal with the beginning of the school year.
The timing sucks- if I didn't have S I would have done it way sooner (actually I probably would have D'd and then regretted it), BUT life is not neat and tidy! I also honestly do not believe that if I went NC it would guarantee an end to the A but it would be more of a step closer to D.
Sorry to keep repeating myself!
If the limbo isn't driving you nuts, then it shouldn't be driving us nuts.
Thanks Flowmom! Exactly! It's not like I am getting more depressed or going crazy because of it (YET). So I think it means I can "handle" it for longer.
I just read a fabulous NC letter that Allen posted on mb28's thread. So, I am thinking that (and I am scared to say the month in case I chicken out) I will go until maybe May, then try the NC letter before just up and asking for an ultimatum or D. Because I need 3 months to find a place and don't want to do it when I am trying to deal with the beginning of the school year.
The timing sucks- if I didn't have S I would have done it way sooner (actually I probably would have D'd and then regretted it), BUT life is not neat and tidy! I also honestly do not believe that if I went NC it would guarantee an end to the A but it would be more of a step closer to D.
Sorry to keep repeating myself!
I haven't seen the NC letter but will have to check it out. If you decide to go NC you will be strong enough to do it. It took me a year to be able to even attempt it. I think we each have to get to that point at our own pace. But I can say it is hard and feels wrong but everything else I was doing felt right but didn't bring him any closer so I figured what did I have to lose. I also think sometimes we let our fears drive us and hold us back.
My fear was losing my h and pushing him towards her. When I sat back and took some time I saw that he was already gone and nothing I did made a difference in him contacting her. So I had to let go of the fear and focus on myself and my daughters. H said it was over and I had to start living like it was and if he decided to come around bonus if not it allowed me to see I could be strong and I would be ok.
I know its hard and scary but if you choose NC it does get easier
H said it was over and I had to start living like it was and if he decided to come around bonus if not it allowed me to see I could be strong and I would be ok.
Then this makes even better sense to "stick it to him" and "make him eat his words" with NC!
I have never been told the above BUT I don't think it is because your H doesn't love you still! He actually was being nicer to you by not giving you hope...mine has just been silent.
Here's my new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1954847&#Post1954847need to figure out how you all label yours with "my story" or words instead of the long link!
And I think I have gone from analyzing every tiny thing from facial expressions to tones of voice, to the time of day he sends his text asking about S...and am now noticing "bigger" things like acts of service, whether or not he lingers, how he took the day off on my birthday, and the number of text messages he sends. I JUST DOUBT THAT THE WH CHOOSES TO RECONCILE WITHOUT ANY WARNING! I think I will see some changes in his behavior and get 2x4s from friends on here for "mind reading" or "worrying too much about him" but how will I know if I don't observe these things? LOL
you definitely don't want to analyze everything for sure! it will drive you crazy. but you do want to take notice of things so that you can gauge your progress.
and you being absent from him can be okay, but you also want to get time in for him to witness your changes and see who you are. if your always gone, then that is a little more difficult to do.
sounds like your doing good...I will try to catch up, you move quick on your thread!
oh, and my H didn't give a whole lot of warning to me actually. I thought things were moving in a positive direction, but he was still in the midst of the A...and then all the sudden I get a text at night that he wants me to be his wife forever!
so you just never know when they are really watching you and really figuring out what they truly want.
Far too often they DON'T go to counselling when feeling like this, they find a female "friend" who has a shoulder to cry on...
depending on where a person is in their problems, and especially if there is already another possible person available to become a OW/OM, going to counselling iMHO is not always a good option. many times it will help the person discover how unhappy they are and how they need to move on and "find their happiness". now, if they went to someone like michelle, I would say differently, but even pastors, that believe in M's don't always fight for the M.
I had my H go to one, and I think it only verified his feelings for leaving. I even made sure I got a guy that was pro-marriage.
Saint go to my new thread for a q! Thank you for helping me!
For example: Don't be cheerful and pleasant.
Well I am reluctant to change much more because I have been occupying myself and receiving more effort on his part. So shouldn't I be doing more of the same? And
please remind me why/how it could be beneficial to not act pleasant but be Spock like. What will I be looking for from WH?
you are absolutely right, you do not want to become the opposite of cheerful and pleasant. that will only show him what he doesn't want and how will that help you towards your goal?
you can do other things, but right now, you are mentioning making some changes in the last couple weeks and you have noticed his reactions changing. you need to stay on this path for a while and see how things go.
and do NOT make a decision in May to D, IMHO, that is way too soon. and what ultimatum would you give? he doesn't live there right?
so did you have the baby after or before the S (separation)