Posted By: stillloveshim What should I do/think? - 06/02/09 07:32 PM
A quick update to my situation:
A few years back H had an emotional affair. We fought over it a lot. I kicked him out for one night. At the time, I had never heard the term EA. EA ends because she moves out of the state.
We recover.
Last September I'm pregnant, miscarry.
October we are still trying to buy a bigger house.
November we decide against the house and he drops the "I don't want to have any more children" bomb on me. I'm devestated.
A week later he wants "a break".
A week later we are separated and he's moving out, but home on the weekends.
Then he stops coming home on the weekends. Turns out the OW from his second EA gets dumped by her live in boyfriend and kicked out of the house.
EA gets hot and heavy and probably a PA for about two weeks in January, then she dumps him. But keeps talking to him.
I move out of the house in February, he moves home.
May, I move home with our 3 year old, he's now living there on his nights that he is supposed to be watching our son. Then he stays with a friend. But this is an improvement of how it's been since about early to mid December. And he sleeps in our bed with me. (Sometimes he initiates ML, sometimes we just snuggle, sometimes there's no contact. Hard to say what it's going to be.)

I know the OW still calls him and I've seen some texts between them. It's 80% complaining about work and a particular co-worker and the rest is pretty blah. But to me this is still very much an emotional affair. Because of these after work conversations and who knows what during work conversations, he's very unavailable to me.
He says it's over. He's even said I'm delusional.
But he still wants to initiate ML. One day he's hot and heavy for me and the next, nada.
At this point, my goal is to not fight with him for three solid weeks. And I mean NOTHING at all in terms of fighting or arguing. That means on June 27th I can scream at him. wink
So far pretty good.
And I have not mentioned or even remotely discussed OW in about 5 or 6 days now. Pretty good there.
At this point, he has started to tell people we are divorcing.
The EA ending on her end, for him I think is still very very raw. I do believe he's still very much mourning that and possibly even hoping she dumps her boyfriend (whom she is convinced will propose in the next two months) and says "Let's ride off into the sunset Shorty!" (Yes, she's an amazon and taller than him--couple of inches.)

Here's some extra background info: He's always around. And I mean A LOT. On his weekends is when he tends to not be around 100%. But on nights when he doesn't have to be, he's there. He hangs out a lot more than a man who really wants out of his marriage should be. So it's very confusing to me, but yet, offers some hope or maybe it's just making me more delusional...???? Not sure.

At this point I want to know: How can I fight for my marriage with this OW who sits 8 feet from him for about 3-4 hours a day at work? (Yes, they work together.) How can I make him "look" at me more?

I'm working on creating a comfortable environment at home and just around me. I'm sweeping up the eggshells if you will. I know that's a must, but does anyone have some extra advice?
I have def. GALed. I'm very happy and proud of that. I've gotten professional help to deal with some of my issues that contributed to my H's desire to seek other relationships. I know I had a hand in it and I'm sorry for it--and working on it.
I guess my big hope is that she just moves away since this town is not home for her and her BF lives about 2 or so hours away back where she is from. But I can't bank on that and I need to keep fighting....but I feel more and more that he really may be done. I'm hanging on to hope because he is around so much and we have absolutely 0 issues in the bedroom. He tells me often I am desireable. So I hope/think that helps.
Plus we do have a child between us.

How do I fight/compete against his feelings for her? The attention he gives her?
And what can be done about all the mouth running he's been doing? We both have fairly high profiles in this community and I fear it may be starting to get around.

Any advice? Insight?
Posted By: eternaloptimist Re: What should I do/think? - 06/02/09 07:45 PM
Hi. I wish I had some great insight/advice. I'm sure other ppl here will offer some better words of wisdom than me. But, I have a son who is 4, so I can relate to the stress of parenting a young child with all of this chaos. It's the most awful thing I've ever experienced. ((HUGS to you.)) You are not alone in all of this.

It sounds like you are doing all of the GALing pretty well. I've read some great advice that the GALing should be for YOU not him. Have you tried any 180s? Those seem to work for me pretty well. I also recently read the book, The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. It was insightful and has helped me figure out not only the type of love I like to receive but also what kinds of positive emotional efforts my H might respond to best. The five love languages are words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service, and physical touch.

Basically, the book boils down to this point: We all like to receive love in different ways. The trouble is figuring out the ways. When the WAS seeks an affair, my limited understanding about this is that the affair meets the spouse's needs in some way that are not being met by the marriage. What needs does your H get met with the OW? Maybe try to look at that and use it to inform your actions? I hope this helps.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/02/09 07:51 PM
Hi Eternal,
Yes the GALing has def been for me and me only. Ironically, while it's been hell period, it has been ever more difficult with my three year old.....BUT now we have set days when H has to watch S so I'm actually getting more time for me. So there's one positive.....
But I've heard of that book....I may have to go and get it.
I think the OW was just younger, exciting and no responsibility. But the problem is she still calls to whine to him about work and how no one there likes her because she's so much better than them and they are obviously jealous, blah blah blah.....but I think he might like a little big needy...??? If that's the case, I can only be so "needy". I'm a big girl and yes I could use help with some things, but I've never seen myself as needy.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/02/09 10:44 PM
Welcome back SLH!
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/04/09 02:20 PM
My H is going to see a lawyer today. Anyone have anything encouraging? A lawyer I spoke with told me to wait before doing anything because of our finances.
I think unfortunately, his parents are going to help him out of the marriage so now he can do it.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/04/09 03:29 PM
I am really sorry to hear that SLH. I really am.

You have been living in limboland - like me. It's a hard place to be - H not committed to the M, but also not actively leaving. I have really struggled with it, because in that sitch I have found it is REALLY HARD to detach and not pursue.

It seems that you, like I, have been attached and pursuing still.

You should really take a look at SmileysPerson 's thread. He is in a sitch where his W is leaving and initiating D, and he has really been handling it well. He started with a painful acceptance that his W is leaving and went on from there.

Smiley'sPerson's Post on Letting Go and Being Friends with your WAS
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/05/09 01:42 PM
Not a big deal.
He said he wants to move forward with the divorce but has to think out the logistics. His parents are going to help him pay his rent somewhere else. So not sure how I feel about that.
But he also said begrudgingly that he would go to marriage counseling. I think that's because he told the lawyer I was thinking of contesting the divorce on the grounds we have not done everything we can to save our marriage, we have not done professional counseling. I think the lawyer told him since you have a child a judge may say she's right, go get counseling first, see you in 90 days or whatever time frame the judge sets.
Not sure if I want to drag this out any longer or if I just want it to end.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/05/09 02:23 PM
Now you sound like me - as I have been over the past few weeks.

I have had whole days where I have said "F___-it, I'm going to file myself"

The uncertain life in Limboland is rough, but I'm starting to deal with it better.

Don't rush it. Just focus on moving forward with your life.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/05/09 07:56 PM
i say that since u are not sure, go for the counseling, dont decide to give in to the divorce if u have been wanting to save your marriage.

its a very hard decision to make to end it or keep going, i struggle with it myself.

new york doesnt have a mandatory counseling session. wish they did, that way i could get my husband to go!
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/08/09 07:17 PM
Florida doesn't have one either.
He told me today he wants to move forward with the divorce. He doesn't want to fix it, he just wants out, it's over, he's done, why do you want to do this with someone who doesn't want to save this marriage?
All of it sucks to hear.
All of it hurts to hear.
All of it makes me want to scream.
But guess what?
He's very very very very very very reluctantly agreed to do a marriage program with me, outright REFUSING to go see a therapist. So this was the compromise.
He said he would be sincere and really try, but I have my serious serious doubts. I think he said he would do it because he wants to take away my ability to ask the courts for therapy. If he does this he can say we did get professional help.
But I am going to do it and hope beyond hope he will at least see a glimpse of what we could be like in a new marriage. I hope this saves us. But at least I hope it gives him pause....stop moving forward, maybe wait and see if we can both make permanent changes.
Basically I'm just scared. Like never before in my life.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/08/09 11:20 PM
i know how u feel, i know how it hurts to hear those words.

he is just trying to make his point, perhaps how he feels for the moment.

my advice is this - do not question the status of your relationship until further notice.

leave it alone, proceed as if.

and with pressure off, i bet he will soften and perhaps things can turn around.

and if u see a turn around, do not question!

it is so hard, i struggle with it too, however, having been through this before, having heard the words before, with pressure off, situation turns...almost always.

i cannot guarantee success, but i can say it may buy some time for him to think about what he really wants.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/10/09 05:57 PM
well my husband is now looking for a new apartment and he and his father are still working on a divorce decree. Not good. I got him to agree to a marriage fitness program. I doubt he'll be sincere. I know he's doing it to say he did it then divorce me.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/10/09 06:07 PM
try to stay positive, laid back and pressure off.

is he still home with u? how is that? anything different? is he acting different? are u acting different?

try your best to be upbeat, bring up nothing, go about your business, yet be friendly.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/10/09 08:04 PM
He is home part time and then staying with a friend. His work schedule doesn't allow him to keep our son over night. He works very early in the am so he has been staying at our place on his days with the baby. That's been helpful.
Everything is different. The fights have been weird. Today again he got crabby about doing the program. I don't want to force him but I have no choice. At this point, he is completely done. So it's force him to do this....and maybe have a fighting chance or just sign today.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/10/09 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: stillloveshim
I don't want to force him but I have no choice. At this point, he is completely done. So it's force him to do this....and maybe have a fighting chance or just sign today.

There's always "Drop the Rope"

Have you read any of the advice Robx gives LBH's?

It kind of goes the way of saying to your H "You are right, we are done." "You know, I really will be happier once you are gone"

...and then taking charge of your life and moving ahead.

...and waiting until your H says "But wait! What about the program?"

It's a totally different perspective, but would be a real 180 for you.

Just a thought...
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 12:08 PM
I would do that except I have NOT ONE DOUBT he would be grateful, draw the papers up faster than you can say "Drop the Rope" with a pen in hand for me to sign.

So H agreed, begrudgingly to do the marriage program with me which is basically cd's, a work book with a book. He has out right REFUSED traditional counseling and he absolutely doesn't want to do this either. But for some reason, I was able to convince him to do it. But sort of not really because he's so reluctant.
We started last night listening to the first CD. He rolled his eyes a lot and said "You are such a smart girl....I can't believe you fell for this scam artist." So we get done and he's just very negative about it. Again says he doesn't want to do it, he doesn't want to fix anything, he wants to move on. I told him "Look, I can't do this. I can't stay here and watch you fall in love with someone else. I just can't. So don't rent a new place just in case I leave. This is not a threat, it's the truth. I can't do it." And really, I know I couldn't take it. It would kill me.
A few minutes later, he and S are about to shower. I asked him again "Are you going to do this with me?" He says again how stupid it is and how much he just wants to move on. I asked again "Are you going to do this and be sincere?" He said "I'll try. But I can't promise I'm going to do all these steps. What do we have to do next?" We had work book stuff to do.
He and S shower. I clear my head and push the reset button.
We do the work book. It was actually very insightful. And he had a much better attitude.
He said he would continue so we'll see.
I'm not exactly hopeful.
But I do feel one more step closer to being able to say to myself I tried everything.

The rest of the evening after we were finished with the workbook, it went well. This first section of the workbook as well as the CD talks about building trust starting with small things like "I will pick up the milk on the way home" and then following through to do it. So we each made 7 promises, one big one the rest pretty easy (I hope) to follow through with. It also went through some other information that I found insightful including the fact he doesn't think I'm very fun anymore. And he's only loved me for about three of our seven years together.....meaning he hasn't loved me for the last four or so. That sucked to hear.
But he does like the part where we have to table all the issues and stop fighting.
Keep your fingers crossed and more advice suggestions thoughts....2x4's....let me have it.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 01:51 PM

You asked for 2x4's, so here it comes...

From what you are saying it really really looks like he is walking away and you are pursuing. Pursuit does not work. It is completely counterintuitive, I know, but that is how it is.

When my W was in her EA (...who knows, she may still be but I don't think so), I tried, really tried to get her to read some of the marriage fitness type books with me. It failed completely!!! She would drag her feet, refuse to talk, roll her eyes, etc. I also pressured her into MC where I would open my heart and talk, but in which she would simply shrug her shoulders and answer "I don't know" to any question asked of her.

I realized later that during every minute of this she was sitting there thinking "I just want to run away, I just want to run away, just get me out of here..." Everything I was doing - all of the pressure to work on the M, was just reinforcing her desire to leave. She wasn't thinking logically, she just wanted to escape.

During this time I got all of the same things your H is telling you now. "Our M has never been good", "I have not loved you in x years", "I need to be with someone who is fun, and you are just not a fun person"

Now remember, these things are not necessarily true. Don't let him steal your positive memories of the M and try to make you feel like your married life has been a lie. however, you have to realize and really really accept, that in your H's mind, they are true.

Think about your R with your H as having 2 components. 1 is the basic friendship and partnership. This is the R where you care for your son jointly, work out finances, spend casual time together, etc. - Call it "Partnership" if you will. The other is the loving, intimate, romantic, mutual attraction part of the R - Call it "Romance".

In your H's mind (and in my W's), the "Romance" part of your R is DEAD. He believes that it can never come back, and that any attempt (counseling, books, etc) to repair the M is an attempt to force emotions that can not be. In fact, it is worse than that. Since he is convinced that he is not attracted to you, he finds the fact that you are holding on and trying desperately to work on the M to be unattractive! The more you hold on, the more he wants to run.

It sucks!! it is unfortunate! I hate it! It is not logical!! It is not realistic!

...but that's the way it is.

Accepting this is enabling me to
a) take the pressure off my W, and by doing so to slow her flight.
b) stop driving myself crazy with efforts to revive the "Romance" part of our R. Those efforts were just alienating her while at the same time increasing my own emotional attachment and desire.
c) focus on my efforts to improve myself (believe me, I need it)
d) work on improving the "Partnership" part of the relationship.

I am in this the same way you are - I'm no expert. I do, however know exactly how you are feeling. It is really really hard to let go of the Romance part of the R.

I wish you strength, I really do. No matter what happens, this is going to be really hard.

We are all in it together. Take care of yourself

Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 02:09 PM
Hi Again,

Just a quick addition in response to a question I got.

Just because the Romance part is dead, I don't think it is a hopeless cause. I believe that the path back to reconciliation lies in 1) fixing your self, 2) improving the "Partnership" part and the (and only then) 3) slowly building a NEW "Romance".

Think of it as now having a friend. You want to make that friendship better. If you stay friends, then maybe you might become lovers in the future.

The purpose of stopping pursuit is to buy you time. If you pursue and push and try to work on a dead "Romance", then you push the person away and never get the chance to fix the Partnership or build a new Romance.

So don't be disheartened.

Just relax and be patient. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 03:50 PM
I completely understand where you are coming from and what you are saying.
This is my last ditch effort.
He has the papers and wants me to sign.
I said I would contest it on the grounds we have never pursued professional help.
He said he would fight me in court, roll the dice and would NEVER go to a therapist.
I suggested the Marriage Fitness program. He reluctantly agreed. And the truth is, he's only doing it because I said if he did and it doesn't work we can move forward with what he would like to do.
He has the papers, in hand and wants to give them to me. At this point he pursing me to sign. I'm pursing him to work on it. Sort of a bad spot.
Sucks whole bunches.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 03:54 PM
Oh and some more insight into things with me and H.....
He is sleeping at home with us when it's his night with our son, otherwise he's staying with a friend. He's been looking at new places to live. His parents are going to help him pay his rent somewhere else.
He wants me to sign off on a deal where he pays for half of all the household items from utilities to half the mortgage but I won't get any child support. And he'll help pay for half of the debt we've grown together. His parents will pay his rent and everything related to his new apartment. He says that's the best deal I'm going to get, and it's beter than child support.
We can't sell the house because we are upside down on it and we can't afford two households now.
We are still intimate and he's around an awful lot.
I found out last night during the first step in the program that he doesnt' think I'm fun anymore. I think I sort of suspected that but it was insightful for me to hear it. Gives me some direction.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 04:09 PM
Have you talked to a Lawyer yet?
Posted By: vickyd Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 06:04 PM

I saw your post on mdoodles thread about the nagging and bashing that you gave your H and I had to write to you. I am there with you on this. I realized that in reponse to H's A I nagged him terrible, always have a smart remark about it, makes him feel even worse. H has been saying that he noticed in our separation that I have not changed and I think he's right. I haven't. This week when he came by with his friend, I went into the same unproductive behavior and realized in hindsight. I started talking about men not liking independent women. Started dropping hints. Talked about how unreliable he is. First, I know H is wrong in the A and was seeking validation outside but its such a terrible spiral b/c it has made me think less of him, which has inturn pushed him away even more. I think H is tired of all the bashing too. I even sometimes miss when I thought the world of him. Now its alot of negative thoughts (eg. thinking he's a liar, can't be trusted, etc). Sometimes all true things but I just hate it. I remember when I thought the world of him.

Anyway, I haven't set goals in a long time so I think I need to make this one of my goals - getting away from the nagging, bad talking, etc. Its so hard to do though when H hasn't made any deposits into his love bank for such a long time.
Posted By: bluerain Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 06:12 PM
SLH, I did Marriage Fitness. I was very impressed. My H didnt do it with me, but I really think that it was a big part of my whole overall improvement as a wife and person. Good luck, I'd like to hear what you think of it. Besides how expensive it was!
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 06:17 PM
My H is doing a marriage program with me because he absolutely REFUSED to see a traditional counselor. He's doing this with complete and utter disdain. He has no interest in saving the marriage. He's doing this with the goal of shutting me up, so I won't contest the divorce--so he can say we did get professional help and it didn't work. And his goal (we both set one on the first day of the program--which was last night) is to be less adversarial.
So this is the last ditch effort. I hope it works. I'm hoping it at least gives him pause "Hey wait, could we work this out?"
But for you and your H, you do need to stop. You are right. Look at it this way, if you were having an affair of any kind, don't you think you would feel sort of guilty? Then your Spouse gives you crap about it, now you feel worse....then you start thinking "Well screw him! I'm having fun, he can't stop me from having fun and wanting to feel good about myself!" and you go deeper into the affair.
Also, it's just exhausting. Isn't it nicer when you are with him and you are laughing or just relaxing? It's so much energy to fight.
And you can trust him again. And the first step to trusting him again is treating him like you do trust him. Tell him, too. I am going to trust you and I believe you won't let us down.
Start small. Ask him to pick up some milk on the way home. When he does it say "Thanks I knew I could trust you to get this for me!" Small but small plus lots and lots of small adds up to pretty big.
You still think the world of him. I still think the world of my H. I'm just disappointed.
Another angle....not sure if you have kids, but if you do and one of them gets caught stealing....what would you do? Would you spend the rest of that child's life reminding them of the time they screwed up and embarassed you? That one I came up with on my own and I was shocked that I treated my husband like I did. And when I found out about the EA it just got worse and I just drove him further and further away right to the person who thought he was just about perfect. And the sick thing is I think he's pretty close to perfect. I just forgot to say it out loud.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 06:19 PM
I have. but not indepth just yet.
I hate the idea of getting a lawyer for this crap. But the day could and most likely will come.
But I'm still fighting slowly and a lot more throughly than ever before. I'm on my last leg here and I'm pretty sure that leg has at least a hairline fracture and might even be broken.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 06:35 PM
From your posts it sounded like he was making settlement offers, making claims about how good those offers were, and asking you to sign.

I wouldn't even start to have these discussions with him until you have talked to a Lawyer and found out what your rights, responsibilities are.

You are at risk of inadvertently agreeing with him on some things that are bad for you in the long term.

I think that you should continue with DBing full force, but in parallel, get a lawyer. Then in response to any of his claims like "This is better than child support" you should just respond "I'll have to check that with my Lawyer.

Protect yourself and your son.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 07:23 PM
gotcha. No he has not presented me with anything and I'm not sure what the hold up is right now but I'm not asking. He said days ago he and his father were working something up and I would have it days ago, but nothing. Then he said that because I said I would contest it, they have things on hold.....but not really sure.
But no, I will not agree to anything and I did make it clear to him I will seek the advice of a lawyer before I would sign anything.
Thanks for the looking out Buddy
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/11/09 07:44 PM
do not get pushed into anything! at all!

perhaps he thought u would agree to whatever he told u, if he said it will work out best for u?

definitely seek legal advice, do not sign a thing without it!
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/12/09 12:00 PM
I def. won't do that. I know I need to protect myself and my son. I'm not even sure how H thinks we can even remotely afford this divorce. And it's not a good sign he's pushing so hard for it despite that.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/13/09 01:01 PM
So H is continuing to show signs of confusion. He says he shouldn't do certain things like when he's at our place, sleeping in our bed together. I think he wants me to say "No you should" so if in the end we do divorce he can say "You told me to sleep in the bed with you....it's not my fault you were lead on." I won't initiate ML for that exact reason.
But we'll see.
He said he would do the program and now he's completely against it. So I told him to not bother with any papers because we had a deal and a pretty good one I thought.
So I guess I've bought me some more time to show him the positive changes in me. And more importantly, to show myself the changes in me. I love that about me. LOL
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/13/09 01:14 PM
the best thing u can do is buy some time to slow things down.

keep up the good work, stand up for yourself and at the same time, keep things light and pressure off.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/15/09 07:07 PM
That is what I'm trying to do. I feel like if he moves out we are def on the road to divorce. It just feels like that final nail in the coffin.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/16/09 01:26 PM
Well all, I have made a decision. H does not want to work on things and I'm sure I've done everything I can to turn this around. I have decided to move back home to my family and friends up north.
I hope to be out of Florida in the next few months. Due to the job economy I'm fighting an uphill battle, but I'm still optomistic.
After a year or so, I think I'll return to Florida because S will be four then and I do believe he will really need his father then. His father isn't much of an H, but he's not too shabby as a father.
I have decided a neurotic mother is no good and that's what I will become as H starts to date and look for a "new love of my life". I think a year or so to let the dust settle and ground myself will be good for me and in turn good for my S.
thanks for all of you who have supported me here. I hope you all can pull through to the other side as a family.
My best wishes for you all.
Posted By: Thinker Re: What should I do/think? - 06/16/09 02:24 PM
Good luck SLH!

We wish you well in the North.

Stay in touch
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/16/09 05:58 PM
I will Thinker. I'll stick around, drop in from time to time. Let folks understand my mistakes so they can learn from them without making them too.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/16/09 08:41 PM
where up north are u headed?
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/17/09 12:37 PM
I'm from right outside of Washington DC on the Virignia side of the city. I'm in need of some TLC and I will get that at home with my family and friends. I wish I could stay there, but I can't. S will need more time with H as he gets older. So for one year, I'm going to be selfish and go home. I'm also hoping for a very high paying job, knock out some of this debt.
Last night H and I had it out. I really let go and got lots off of my chest. I haven't felt this good in a long time.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/17/09 12:40 PM
what did u talk about?

is h ok with u leaving the state?
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/17/09 02:25 PM
Basically he sent me the bill separation agreement.
I reminded him I will not take steps to end my marriage electronically.
I came up with a counter offer.
I gave it to him at home, and then ignored him for the most part. He tried to make small talk and I answered his questions, smiled and walked away. He made dinner for him and S and I made something for myself. (Plus I had spaghetti for lunch, didn't want it for dinner too.)
Then as we are going to bed, he comes into our room, announces he's sleeping in the guest room. In the past I've told him to stay with me in our bed which is soooo much more comfortable and plus I wanted him near. He always stayed. Last night, I said Good night and kept reading. Then he comes back with the counteroffer and starts asking questions and it goes from there.
He starts with an attitude about it.
Eventually, I get super mad and let him have it. I get it all off my chest.
I started with you are a coward....and I will not sign anything to end my marriage, you will have to go around me. So don't waste your time with your lawyer and your money. I'm going to contest it as I have told you a hundred times because we did not seek professional help. We've both been told by our lawyers and plenty of friends that are divorced that I will get the therapy if I ask the judge for it because we have a child.
Plus in the last couple of weeks, he has started talking to a distant cousin that found him on facebook, a woman, on the phone because the other OW has truly cut things off with him and only speaks to him on occassion about work related stuff. I think he's getting over it though. But this stupid cousin sent me a Facebook message that I need to let it go! CAN YOU BELIEVE THE NERVE?????? I told him about that and he said no she didn't, show me. It was so much pleasure for me, I admit it, to see that smug look fall off his face. Then I got a heart felt apology about it. So that was nice.
But I let him know I'm over all the crap I've had to deal with these long seven months, the disrespect, the craziness, all of it.
He's not thrilled that I'm leaving but he knows he can't stop me.
I also got really mean and that wasn't very nice of me, but I was on a roll. I told him I wasn't yet over all the crap OW did and pulled. Twice I asked her to leave us alone, after she made the effort to contact me and twice she said ABSOLUTLEY. Marriage is more important than any friendship and then proceeded to keep calling H. But really, what did I expect out of a loser 23 year old with a criminal record? I told him I was still considering whether I was going to get her fired or not. But I'm not. I don't even think about her much anymore. But again, he pushed my buttons.
The ironic thing, now that I think back to last night, I think he really came into our room the second time in hopes I would say "Stay here with me in our bed." I never even thought about it last night.
Oh well.
I feel better which makes me happy. I feel better for getting the stuff off of my chest.
Posted By: fightingirish Re: What should I do/think? - 06/17/09 02:32 PM

Good for you. It seems that you are detaching and going forward with your life.

Good luck to you and take care of that boy of yours.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/17/09 04:36 PM
why thank you. it's taken a very long time for me to get to this point, and the decisions I've made for me and my new life feel right, they feel good.
I'm sad about the end of my marriage, but I can't do this anymore. I've taken a lot of crap here and he's still not willing to admit his wrong doing. He has no ability to recognize how dissappointed many people are in him and how he acted.
I told him last night when he said he and OW haven't talked in days and she's def. moved on with her new BF "Great, you threw us away for nothing.....just like I always knew it was going to be nothing." He said nada in response. What could he say?
Posted By: fightingirish Re: What should I do/think? - 06/17/09 05:32 PM
Alot of times its not till the very end when they realize they totally screwed up. To bad that 90% of the time its too late.

Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/18/09 01:27 PM
Alright. Strange turn of events.
I met with a lawyer yesterday after H and I went in for our dentist appointment.
Before going to the dentist H and I talked about a few things...including he will give the marriage program a try.
I am still 99% sure of divorce for us, but I was surprised.
He did sign a new lease for a place in town that is furnished and it's month to month which is what I asked him to look for so if or more likely when I leave for Virginia, he won't be paying a lot of money to break a lease.
We are going to start the program back up again next week and have agreed to not talk about anything else for the rest of this week.
He is going to start moving his clothes to his new place this weekend when he gets the keys on Friday.
I have absolutely no idea why the change of heart as it relates to the program, but we'll see what happens. I decided to not even ask him why he wants to try it now. But I'm really not holding my breathe. I'm not even sure what I want anymore but I did make a pretty big stink about doing the program. My true hope is that we'll at least be able to figure some things out about ourselves and get along better. That's the most important thing for Son.
I am going to continue to move forward with moving back to Virginia.

I'll keep you updated, As Stillloveshim's World Turns.......
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/18/09 05:53 PM
i think its great he is willing to try the counseling.

u never know what might happen....atleast u will know u tried.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/18/09 07:28 PM
that's pretty much my feeling on it too.
I'm proud of you. You're doing great.
I wish we could exchange numbers!
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/18/09 07:46 PM
yeah, i know, right! it seems some people are able to get emails and find eachother on other sites, i dont get it.

i think at one time u could exchange emails but not anymore. not so sure.

as far as me doing great, not so sure! im trying. im minute to minute.

i havent fully accepted that i have to move. i dont really want to. im going through the motions, have been for a year, but now that its real, now that it seems like its in 2 months, im in denial.

and funnier, is that with us, u never really know. what i have to know though, is that im done regardless of him.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/19/09 12:11 PM
You are supposed to do this in YOUR time and on YOUR terms. You can't walk away from this only to one day wonder "Did we do everything we could have?" No doubts. No matter what this has to be done with no doubts.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/19/09 12:15 PM
well, i can honestly say i have done everything i could save our marriage. more than everything. i have no doubts left, no more, should i have done this, what if i would have done that.

i know that.

its now a matter of this- does he really want to split? has he done everything he can? but that is all up to him, i cant control it.

the only thing i can do is make the decision to stay with him if the offer arises.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/19/09 02:25 PM
Then you are in a great spot for your future and it could include him or maybe it doesn't.
In terms of him giving up custody so easily, that's fine. It says a lot about him but you need a break too. Make sure he has at least every other weekend with his child. His child deserves that time with him.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/22/09 01:49 PM
So tonight we are starting week two of the marriage fitness program.
We did week one about two weeks ago. He rolled his eyes and was negative blah blah blah
and said NO MORE!! I'm not doing this, I don't want to fix things, etc.
Fine. Then a change of heart, not exactly sure why.
I asked him last night, why the change of heart about the program and are you going to be sincere.
He says Yes, I'll be sincere and I've changed my mind because you said minimum the program will help us get along better. This isn't going to have the outcome you think.....(meaning we get back together) but I think it would be good if we could get along better.
I said what makes you think I want more than just to get along?
He said nothing.
I'm actually at a point where I'm ready to say No more. But I made such a stink about the program and said I could contest because we did nothing for professional help.

What I think has really happened is parents were recently made aware by me about his shennanigans which I knew they knew nothing about. I think his parents may have said Do the program....And they said this for one of two reasons: It will shut her up and she can't contest the divorce or they are disappointed in him now that they know more about his crap. (I knew he was lying to them and exaggerating things.) Also, and this is where I tend to believe things went down....his lawyer confirmed for him that because we have a child the judge would say Yes, go back and get counseling. So I think he's agreed to do this because he knows I'll get the counseling even if it's court ordered because we have a three year old child. In Florida, it's been made very clear to me the judges here care little about the parents andn 100% about the child and everything will be done with the child's best interest in mind.

So, here we go. I think I'm on a fast dip on the roller coaster ride today.

This weekend, he moved out to his own place that mommy and daddy are paying for. I got word from a little birdie H was expecting fireworks for this weekend because he was moving. So I packed all of his stuff and gave him some cleaning supplies, etc and even loaded all of this stuff up into my SUV so when he got home from golf he could just move his crap with S was napping. I wish I had thought about it and had the camera ready to take a picture of his face. It was priceless. No fireworks. Sorry he was disappointed. LOL!!

I'm ready folks. I'm ready for my life and preparing for it without much of him in it. It's sort of sad, but I feel more and more liberated everyday.

I'm still going to fight this out because I was the one who pushed for this program, and my son deserves 100% effort from both of us, but I'm bracing for impact.
Posted By: mdoodles Re: What should I do/think? - 06/22/09 02:25 PM
good for u, u sound great. i love how u handled the "fireworks" by having none.

i like that alot.

keep up the good attitude.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/22/09 02:28 PM
yes maam
It's easier this way.
I'm tired yet rejuvinated.
We will see.
I'm excited about my new life which more and more seems to not include him.
That makes me sad, but not like it should IF I really want to save this.
Have you every checked out the jokes url I sent you....???? Cheesy but fun. You can share it with your son and religious leaders!!
Posted By: fisherman Re: What should I do/think? - 06/22/09 09:57 PM
Found ya!!

...and thank you again for the Father's Day wishes.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/23/09 12:14 PM
Alright all. Here's the StillLovesHim update.....
This past weekend, H got himself a little new place, paid for by Mommy and Daddy--his.
I moved his stuff for him to be funny girl and completely regret, I didn't have the camera ready for the look on his face.
The deal was, yes, move out, but H has to be home on the nights he has S because H can't afford to pay child support, plus we are no divorced. Last night, his night, he tells me he's going back to his place. I explained, nope, you can walk away from us, you can't walk away from being a father. Bottomline, we are not discussing this. I was cool about you moving out but you are here the nights you have S. End of discussion. He was annoyed. I don't care. S will stay up some nights and talk to himself. Other nights, he wants to talk to me. I have a job too. I need sleep too. H will help raise our son. I will not budge on this. Ever.

A little bit later H says "Are you ready to get going on week two of this program?" (We're doing a marriage fitness program that he said he would do, then backed out, then came back to the table....still trying to figure out why, but says he will be sincere with doing the program.)
So I said "Sure."
We did the second week of the program which included two CD's we had to listen to and some workbook stuff.
This week we had to make a list of our issues and problems and then "table them". Meaning it is time to admit we can't solve these issues right now, so let's table them, build up some trust and love and then go from there. The list was actually pretty short. I asked him to cut back contact with certain people, females. And he asked me to let the past go. We also made some promises, and it was overall, pretty good.

The most interesting thing: H said I stopped being affectionate. I said I know, once S was born I did change, but please understand, I GAINED 60 POUNDS WHEN I WAS PREGNANT, I FELT HORRIBLE ABOUT MYSELF. He said "No, before you even got pregnant, you changed. You stopped being fun and you stopped being affectionate. I don't need attention. I get enough. I needed affection and sex is not affection. I would watch a movie, ask you to join me and you would then you'd get up and go read in the bedroom. I wanted you next to me, snuggling. Who gives a bleep what we were watching. I just wanted to hold you, like we used to do. At night, I don't want to sleep on my side of the bed. I didn't want you on your side. I wanted us on top of each other in the middle. The middle part of the bed is the best part when you were in it with me......"
So I feel like crap. I told him "I don't remember it being like that." He said "I know. It's not the only reason, but that's part of how we got here......but it doesn't matter now. Things are done."
And even at that time, I didn't argue. I wanted him to know I didn't remember it that way. I remember him shutting me out as I was trying to lose the weight. And I will admit, then and now, he has always made me feel beautiful. My weight and my appearance were issues in my head, never in his eyes. I knew that then, I know it now. So he gets complete credit for that. But I still was pretty heavy and not happy with myself.
I did tell him I understand. Because I do believe him that's how it happened from his perspective.
I asked "Why didn't you tell me this then?" He said as I knew he would "I tried."
Later, in the program we signed a contract to table the issues and not discuss them. We are also working on ourselves.
We also had a section where we had to decide on what we were committed to. Our options were:

I'll settle for being roommates.
I'll fight for this marriage.
I'll file, I'm done.
I'm undecided.

I selected two: I'll fight for this marriage and I'm undecided.
He selected two: I'll file, I'm done and I'm undecided.
But then he put percentages next to them. I'll file....he put 90% and undecided he wrote 10%.

So, again, we'll see.
Posted By: fisherman Re: What should I do/think? - 06/23/09 12:22 PM
Originally Posted By: stillloveshim
I was cool about you moving out but you are here the nights you have S. End of discussion. He was annoyed. I don't care. S will stay up some nights and talk to himself. Other nights, he wants to talk to me. I have a job too. I need sleep too. H will help raise our son. I will not budge on this. Ever.

Good Morning!

I'm glad your sticking to your guns on this. Fatherhood is forever.
Posted By: stillloveshim Re: What should I do/think? - 06/23/09 12:39 PM
Good Morning!
I told him that pretty much exactly. You can walk away from this marriage....but you will NEVER walk away from S. He said he wasn't trying to. I said good, then we understand each other. This is not to be revisited.
Later on, he says "Don't tell my mother that I'm staying here." I wanted to call her right then and there. But from her perspective he made it sound like we were choking each other every night, which is very far from the truth. And now that she's paying for this new place I would expect his butt there too, but too bad. He's got daddy duty.
Posted By: LR1 Re: What should I do/think? - 08/19/09 07:42 PM
SLH, are you still here? Haven't heard from you in a long time? Hope things are ok!

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