Divorcebusting.com

Even Puppies Need a Pat

Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 05:52 PM

First of all, I want to sincerely THANK everyone for your support, prayers, well-wishes and JOKES over the past week. I know I haven't thanked everyone individually, and I haven't posted much, but I read EVERYTHING, on both forums, and even though some of them made me cry, they all helped me get thru a very sad week in my life and I was nothing short of blown away by the love and support.

My wife and I are headed rapidly toward this divorce, uncontested, and most likely thru mediation. We have an appt. with the mediator for after Christmas, and I've already typed up a couple of drafts of what we might be able to do, custody/alimony/support wise.

After a lot of tears and moodiness last Sunday and Monday, my wife is now acting HAPPY, which to be honest, PISSES ME OFF. I do think she has ZERO CLUE as to what she's in for, as I have been SO much of her financial, emotional, household and parenting support, and she seems to be in denial about our finances. But she must have some carefree-single lifestyle fantasy in her head right now, and it's put her in a good mood, which makes me 1/3 sad and 2/3 ANGRY.

My "life" is going to SUCK financially. If I could afford to get my own place, and fix it up the way I always wanted (we said when we moved into this house, with its big game room upstairs, that I would FINALLY get that pool table I've always wanted .... yeah, right...), then I might be able to get into this. I AM genuinely happier, sad to say, when she's NOT home and it's just me and the boys here. I feel I am able to be myself more, and I do enjoy my freedom. But until and even IF we can get this house sold for a profit, I am most likely looking at staying with my in-laws, doing my George Costanza impersonation.

NOT very attractive, and NOT where I wanted to be at this stage in my life.

I should have done this a long time ago; at least I'd be further along by now.

Peace,

Puppy




Posted By: hopeful4her

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 06:07 PM

Pup, if there is ANYONE that can get through this, you can.

I've been in my 'financial' situation for some time now. What with her losing her job last year, then her illness, and now our separation, being 'broke as a joke' completely sucks, especially right now.

But we find a way. We have to.

Costanza.....that made me laugh.

And I figured a little laugh couldn't hurt, what with all the drama and sadness everyone was feeling for ya'. \:\)
Posted By: breakaway

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 06:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: breakaway


Yep! And INSANITY later!!! hahahah
Posted By: Babygirl

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 06:42 PM

hey puppy, I agree that you can do this. I believe in you and guess what? we are right here to walk along beside you on this journey. and hey, you are worth it, and one day your wife is going to be mad at herself for losing you.

read this today, thought of you and a couple of my other men on these boards..........

I am only one, but still I am one.
I cannot do everything, but still I can do something;
And because I cannot do everything
I will not refuse to do the something that I can do.
--Edward Everett Hale

and sorry, here is a big ol girly hug from this tiny little baby girl!!!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 08:43 PM

Hey, I'll take it! And I like that saying -- that's really good, and appropriate.

Don't get me wrong, there are whole big parts of me that is EXCITED about this. There are just two very big kidney stones standing in my way:

1) telling our sons, S12 and S15; and

2) my financial situation.

As for finally being done with the Princess and getting on with my life, and having some affection in my future, I'm very much at peace and looking forward to.

Puppy
Posted By: Babygirl

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 09:09 PM

wow, the girl hugs were ok, AND yes the saying rocked, it screamed at me to share with a few of you.

I know about the kids. today we have to tell my d13 and s12 of H and homewrecking whores S2. d13 will be devastated almost as bad as I was.
I also understand finances. I dont work, as per my illness, so I am totally dependent pretty much on H. my little bit of income wont let me make it.

YOU will be an amazing catch to some wonderful woman. I cant wait to keep up with your new and exciting life!! come on, see, you can still give us hope, so live live live lol!!!
Posted By: SingleDad

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 10:48 PM

Puppy -

I have read so many of your replies to other stitches, but I had no idea you were just now starting a divorce process.

First of all, I am sorry to hear you will be having a very difficult time especially right now at this time of year with the holidays and all.

Since it is right after Christmas - I wanted to give you some thoughts on terms - Since I agonized over the terms of my separation.

Mediation is certainly the way to go, if you can agree on the terms. Fight hard for Joint Physical and Legal custody. Try to get as close to 50% parenting time - it's worth it. Have overnights too - 3 hrs on a Wed nite limits you to being a McDonald's dad. I have 6 of 14 overnights (alternating weekends and several weeknights) - one one evening per bi-week short of a complete 50/50.

Don't just rotate Holidays - do better - if one parent gets Thanksgiving, the other parent gets the day after - so we can separately celebrate each and every holiday with our daughter - do this for each Holiday.

Put in a right of first refusal - If one parent can't take their day and it's more than 5 or x hours, they must offer it first to the other parent. Switch days with a comparable other day rather than a use it or lose it policy. Both parents have right to attend all sporting events, plays, etc.

If you can afford, try to find a place in the same town, so your sons can take the school bus to your house.

I went through mediation to lay out the terms for a 12 month legal separation - W wanted out, so I had a fair opportunity to negotiate very reasonable terms.

Please respond on my stitch if you want further thoughts - I am only checking it every couple of weeks or so now - So it might take some time to respond.

Also - A response that you wrote in another stitch seems to apply to my situation right now. My W and I are legally separated since June (A divorce can't be done until next June - so even though we are legally separated we are still legally married) I have learned through my D3 that she has a BF who now sleeps over while D3 is at the house. I was very angry at my W and let her know that I do not approve. That Her moral convictions have been badly compromised and that she is demonstrating lousy role model to our D.

My W says our M is over and she has to live and be happy. I actually think this "affair" started before the Bomb and the separation. I try to leave things alone and DB and GAL - but then I learn something like this and I express my anger and my desire to save our marriage.

Here is what you said on another thread:

"Native,

I don't necessarily disagree. I think that some of us just define "compassion" differently maybe. To me, there is nothing "compassionate" about enabling a spouse who is having an affair, either financially or emotionally, and I don't think it's good for us OR for them.

When does "being friends" cross over into "appeasement"?

Yes, I'm sure there's at least one for whom this has worked. But I see far more who are having success with standing up for themselves, and laying firm boundaries, and holding their wayward spouses up to a higher standard.

Two VERY different approaches, certainly.

Peace,

Puppy "

I agree with your statement - I have been trying to have my W understand that there is a higher standard - both morally - and in raising our daughter in a nuclear family.

It mostly all goes to a deaf ear. But I do feel if I just sit back and not tell her how much I disapprove - then I am compromising my standards. Some day,years from now, I think my W will understand.

But now she is just further pushed away - and merely wants to be friends for our daughters sake. I have trouble being friends after all she has destroyed and taken away from me and my daughter.

Any advice on this would be appreciated. I think there is a link to my thread attached to my footnotes.
Posted By: sgctxok

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/20/08 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
But until and even IF we can get this house sold for a profit, I am most likely looking at staying with my in-laws, doing my George Costanza impersonation.



But will you win 'the contest'? \:o
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
But until and even IF we can get this house sold for a profit, I am most likely looking at staying with my in-laws, doing my George Costanza impersonation.



But will you win 'the contest'? \:o


Already OUT, Jerry!!! \:\/

Puppy
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 01:17 AM

Quote:
But she must have some carefree-single lifestyle fantasy in her head right now, and it's put her in a good mood, which makes me 1/3 sad and 2/3 ANGRY.
But eventually everyone has to encounter reality don't they? I know when H moved out that day he was the happiest I'd seen him in a while, and then I really haven't seen him seem happy since that day. He still seems messed up to me.


Quote:
My "life" is going to SUCK financially. If I could afford to get my own place, and fix it up the way I always wanted (we said when we moved into this house, with its big game room upstairs, that I would FINALLY get that pool table I've always wanted .... yeah, right...), then I might be able to get into this.

Me too. But I'm hoping the next little place I get will be "transitional" and maybe in a few years I can upgrade; something to work towards anyway.


Quote:
NOT very attractive, and NOT where I wanted to be at this stage in my life.

I should have done this a long time ago; at least I'd be further along by now.
Of course, I always wanted to grow old with H can't remember why exactly, but I did. I've thought that too. It would have been better if we never married, or this had happened 10 years earlier. But I mean at least it didn't happen in 10 or 15 years when I'm almost ready to retire or whatever. We still can meet someone and have a good long life with them...and we're kind of the perfect age now really. Still young enough to have fun, but mature enough that we don't have too much fun??? Karen
Posted By: yenko69

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 01:20 AM

Puppy,

Sorry to hear the turn of events in your life. You have helped so many people on here, me included. Thanks for all your advice. You are a great guy and will make a appreciative woman really happy someday. Take care of yourself and my prayers are with you.
Posted By: Silver Fox

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 01:29 AM

Thanks Puppy for your support on my thread. I've been meaning to post to you - so sorry for what you're going through.

I've learned so much from you and you seem like a really neat guy. Heck, I would even go out with you, but wait, I'm married, and that would be WRONG wouldn't it! \:D
Posted By: Hope4us

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 01:23 PM

Pup, Haven't had a chance to post, but wanted to say THANK YOU for all your support, both for me and everyone here.

I know there are times you've been frustrated with me and my somewhat less than firm stands (except way back in Feb/Mar), but we each have to live out our sitch's our own way.

I understand completely when you talk about the financial situation sucking. IF my W and I end up splitting, my standard of living will go WAY down. But ya know what? I grew up having nothing and early in our marriage we had nothing and those were the happiest times of my life. Early in our marriage, W and I took a trip to the Smoky Mtn's camping on $40. Yep, three nights camping on $40. And we had a BLAST. Cooked all our meals on a Coleman stove. Sat around the campfire drinking some beer we brought with us, marveling at the stars and talking about our future.

I think back to when I was young and the thing I remember most about Christmas/Thanksgiving was that my dad would take my brothers and me hunting in the morning, we'd return around lunch and mom would have cooked a big meal and we'd sit down as a FAMILY and eat, laugh and LOVE. I can remember only one Christmas present I got when I was young and that was because it was the best present EVER. A rubber ball. Yep, that's it. We were so poor that that was the only present I got that year. But I spent countless hours throwing that ball off the garage wall, pretending I was going to be a MLB player. And life was GOOD.

I think about those times and those early in our marriage and I/we were HAPPY.

You will be too. Money isn't what makes us happy. It's family and friends and all the little things that don't cost a dime to do. Like spending a day just talking with your kids. Watching a movie together. Camping in a National Park for $7 a night while sitting by the fire KNOWING that life is good.

Honestly, some times I almost think I'd rather have it that way then to have a nice big house and all the CRAP that goes with it.

Thank you for being a friend. To me and everyone else here you help every day.

I know you've told me you pray a lot. Do you think when you get to talk to St Pete he's going to ask you how much money you made in your life? Nope, don't see that happening. I think we'll all get asked the question, "Were you loved and did YOU love"?

If you can answer those two questions with a YES, then that's all that really matters isn't it? And I think I can say for you, that yes, you are loved (everyone here loves you as well as your kids love you) and have loved (just the support you give everyone here is evidence of that).

I'd tell you to stay strong, but I know you will.

Take care.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 02:23 PM

Hope,

You have no idea how much I needed to hear that. THANK YOU.

Of course, you are right. My wife and I started out in a little 1120 sq. ft. house, and those WERE the happiest of times. Just days spent gardening together, or ML or hanging out. And when I was a kid, we were middle-class, but the memories are of our family camping trips, playing Nerf football with my little brother, or playing board games with my brothers and sister or friends.

Somewhere along the line, I've lost sight of all of that. That you for reminding me of what's TRULY important.

Last nite, all S12 wanted to do was play whiskey poker with me, and for me to teach him some magic tricks. He must have thanked me three or four times for playing with him.

Puppy
Posted By: Hope4us

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 02:44 PM

Heck Pup. My W and I started out in a frickin mobile home. No offense to anyone who lives in one, but Taj Mahal it wasn't. But we were HAPPY.

Now we live in a great home on a hill with a great view, EXPENSIVE vacations mulitple times a year, shopping trip yesterday to pick up 4 frickin cheeseballs for our party and ended up spending close to $700.

Am I happier now than I was back then? Not by a long shot.

I wonder sometimes when you have less, if you aren't closer because you have to invent ways to have fun, and that's fun in itself. We still laugh and laugh about that $40 weekend. And I can honestly say, it was probably the BEST vacation we ever took together. The first time my mom, brothers and I went on a vacation, we went to Atlanta to visit some relatives for a week, on $100 bucks. That's it. We packed sandwiches in a cooler to save money. We skipped the motels with a pool because the ones without the pools were a couple bucks cheaper. But we had a BLAST! I remember us laughing because my one brother stuck his feet out the window and one of us said he was probably making the truck driver behind us sick to his stomach with feet smell. How much did that cost? NOTHING. But I remember it like it was yesterday. And that was 1966 and I was 5 years old.

Last night my kids and I shared a couple of looks during the party when W was talking about last Christmas. She was telling people stuff like there was nothing wrong. Frickin amazing. But you know what? It's brought my boys and I closer together. And if my W and I don't make it, the boys and I will be ok.

I suspect the same for you.

You're a good man Pup. You help so many others without asking anything in return. That's a REAL MAN.
Posted By: LL44

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 03:42 PM

You are a good man, Puppy, a very good man.

You will not be Costanza (or Kramer for that matter...."I'm out!" ;\) ) for very long. When you are ready for a relationship, physical and emotional, you will be snatched up. I am just sorry your wife isn't the one snatching you up anymore.

Her being happy-go-lucky? You know the drill. The relief they feel is false, but they don't see that.

I am sorry that you have to tell your children. That's the hardest part, and actually makes me the most upset when it comes to this divorce.

Take care.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 04:28 PM

Originally Posted By: lwb
You are a good man, Puppy, a very good man.

You will not be Costanza (or Kramer for that matter...."I'm out!" ;\) ) for very long. When you are ready for a relationship, physical and emotional, you will be snatched up. I am just sorry your wife isn't the one snatching you up anymore.

Her being happy-go-lucky? You know the drill. The relief they feel is false, but they don't see that.

I am sorry that you have to tell your children. That's the hardest part, and actually makes me the most upset when it comes to this divorce.

Take care.


LWB,

Thanks much -- your entire post makes a lot of sense. I DO know the drill, but it always still hurts when you're in it. I try to learn to laugh at it as best I can when I see the "St. S_____" behavior from the fetching Mrs. Puppy. (This morning she's scrubbing our floors, doing a TON of laundry, and cleaning the bathrooms ... she never does ANY of this / our house is a sty).

I really don't think I'll be LTRing anytime soon, if at all. But I'm really looking forward to some dates and just some good-old-fashioned AFFECTION.

Puppy
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 06:13 PM

Quote:
I try to learn to laugh at it as best I can when I see the "St. S_____" behavior from the fetching Mrs. Puppy. (This morning she's scrubbing our floors, doing a TON of laundry, and cleaning the bathrooms ... she never does ANY of this / our house is a sty).

I really don't think I'll be LTRing anytime soon, if at all. But I'm really looking forward to some dates and just some good-old-fashioned AFFECTION.

Puppy
Yeah, you know my H has been in "superDad" mode the past couple months. All of a sudden interested in the kids, wanting overnights with them, and being around way more than he ever was the past 15 years with the kids. I'm guessing 99.9% of this is motivated by the D and trying to look good to others. Not wanting to face that he's been an absent dad or whatever and admit that in court. What makes it easier for me is that I think his weird behavior will change after the D and he doesn't feel like he has to pretend or whatever they are doing.

Yeah, well, I'm not looking forward to dates at all!!! I haven't dated in about 23 years, and even then I was friends with my 1st boyfriend and H first, so it was no big deal. But yeah, affection sounds wonderful. I never thought I would missing hugging and hand-holding so much! Until you can't have them anymore (well I do with the kids you know but not the same). And all of it! I think I'm going to scare anyone I date, b/c I'm going to want to do so much PDA (private and public)!!! Karen
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 06:20 PM

I miss kissing the most. \:\(
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
I miss kissing the most. \:\(
Sure you do!!! \:\/ Yeah, I know what you mean though!!! Karen
Posted By: Br44

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 06:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
I miss kissing the most. \:\(


me too puppy
Posted By: LL44

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 07:15 PM

Quote:
I miss kissing the most


Yes. Me too, Puppy.
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 07:41 PM

Heck at this point I think I would fall over for a hug! You are going to find that someone special that is going to appreciate you and love you just the way you are. I know several of us are at that point where we just don't see it, but truly it is going to happen. Call it intuition!

kat
Posted By: carpenter54

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 08:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
I miss kissing the most. \:\(


......brushes teeth....mouthwash....chapstick......:)
Posted By: WaitingPatiently

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 08:20 PM

Hey Puppy,

Me again. I just read through this thread. The financial part really does suck, doesn't it? But, if you think about, better a gate keeper in heaven than a king in hell. Money isn't everything, it comes and goes, but we only get one chance at this life. My finances are going to suck--hell I have to rent a room out in my house and depend on her to share our car. Not exactly ideal. When we bought the house (all of 2 1/2 months ago) we were talking about having another baby and adding on a room. We were also going to redo our basement and kitchen. Well so much for those plans. But you will make it, and I will make it. Get that pool table on your own someday. Remember, you can be the gate keeper and she can be the king (or queen I guess).
CR
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 08:26 PM

Originally Posted By: crafidi
Get that pool table on your own someday.
I think that's a great idea. Root out all the selfish people with that one. If they won't let you have your pool table room, then I think you should move on. I'm trying to think what my dealbreaker can be...I guess put up with my kids and maybe even like them a little? That's probably enough & most important for me! Karen
Posted By: hopeful4her

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: puppy
But I'm really looking forward to some dates and just some good-old-fashioned AFFECTION


Just keep being who your are, and you'll seemingly be trying to beat them off with a stick. ;\)
Posted By: sgctxok

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 11:13 PM

Satin lips. Exfoliate....moisturize...kiss.

Some of my best Christmases were after my divorce, when I had no money to buy gifts for anyone, except a token gift for the kids.... there were about 4-5 lean years.

One year I only had $10 for each kid and that was the year I told them there was no Santa Claus. I'm an idiot. That year Santa showed up on Christmas eve. One family showed up with a tree, lots of gifts for me and each of the kids. My BF sent me gifts for the kids in the mail and wrapping paper so I could choose which for each kid.

Another year, the parish sent me $100.

Another year a family adopted us.

I never 'applied' for any of this.


The first year depressed me. The following years I trusted God and rejoiced with each gift. I also have SEVERAL car gift stories...I'll save that for Easter, because that's when THAT started.

It's humbling....because when we were married, we didn't want for anything.


And what I love about you, is you obey God.

I KNOW God put some things on the hearts of certain people in our path, who did not listen. Most of the gifts that were given to us were from folks who could not afford to give to us. And they did anyway.

TRUST IN HIM.


HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS!!!!
Posted By: JWM

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/21/08 11:58 PM

Puppy, I'm glad you are back on these boards. We really do miss you.

Regarding the need for affection...what a big one. I'm sure whatever happens God has good things in store for you.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/22/08 01:28 AM

Thanks, John. I intend to use what's left of my days on this Earth being the best dad, son, sibling, and friend I can possibly be. There is SO much to do, and SO many to help out there, if you just open your eyes!

Puppy
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/22/08 01:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Silver Fox
Thanks Puppy for your support on my thread. I've been meaning to post to you - so sorry for what you're going through.

I've learned so much from you and you seem like a really neat guy. Heck, I would even go out with you, but wait, I'm married, and that would be WRONG wouldn't it! \:D


Yeah, but think of the scandal . . . \:D ;\)
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/22/08 01:35 AM

Originally Posted By: yenko69
Puppy,

Sorry to hear the turn of events in your life. You have helped so many people on here, me included. Thanks for all your advice. You are a great guy and will make a appreciative woman really happy someday. Take care of yourself and my prayers are with you.


Thanks, Yenko. It's always easier to give advice to others, than to apply it in our own sitches, isn't it???

I'm finding I can DO it (did the "GAL" thing last nite, and I'm acting loving yet not rescuing of the fetching Mrs. Puppy), but NOT LETTING IT GET TO YOU is the hard part.

Her current contentment is annoying me.

Puppy
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/22/08 02:14 AM

Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Satin lips. Exfoliate....moisturize...kiss.

Some of my best Christmases were after my divorce, when I had no money to buy gifts for anyone, except a token gift for the kids.... there were about 4-5 lean years.

One year I only had $10 for each kid and that was the year I told them there was no Santa Claus. I'm an idiot. That year Santa showed up on Christmas eve. One family showed up with a tree, lots of gifts for me and each of the kids. My BF sent me gifts for the kids in the mail and wrapping paper so I could choose which for each kid.

Another year, the parish sent me $100.

Another year a family adopted us.

I never 'applied' for any of this.


The first year depressed me. The following years I trusted God and rejoiced with each gift. I also have SEVERAL car gift stories...I'll save that for Easter, because that's when THAT started.

It's humbling....because when we were married, we didn't want for anything.


And what I love about you, is you obey God.

I KNOW God put some things on the hearts of certain people in our path, who did not listen. Most of the gifts that were given to us were from folks who could not afford to give to us. And they did anyway.

TRUST IN HIM.


HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS!!!!

Amen to that!

...and you know exactly what I mean! ;\)
Posted By: chicki

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/22/08 02:09 PM

I say Amen too!!
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/23/08 01:53 PM

How's it waggin' today, Pup?
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/23/08 02:17 PM

Things are busy, but okay. Trying to get ready for Christmas is always a huge task in our house, as there's so much cleaning to do, along with the last-minute shopping, baking, decorating (I finally got my outside lights up only yesterday!) and such. I'm just trying to enjoy my time with the boys, mixing in plenty of games of Uno and whiskey poker along with my chores. I took them to the golf practice green yesterday, where they really enjoy their putting and chipping contests with me, and I took S12 to the hardware store with me to buy some stuff I needed for the outside decorating, and we really had a great time.

My wife seems hell-bent on showing everyone how LITTLE help she needs, so whatever. I'm doing my share and then some, but not cleaning up after her the way I used to when she bakes. When my wife bakes, it looks like a cherry bomb went off inside of a flour bag!

Puppy
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/23/08 02:53 PM

{{PDT}} Oh man..I love Uno..if only I was nearby..I'd totally try to kick your puppy tail in some cards!! \:\)

My husband always said that if I wasn't messy when I cooked he wouldn't know what to do LOL..but I always clean it up..LOL..

Glad you got your lights up without too much trouble and yummy baking, I should bake something! You made me want cookies, which isn't a very hard task obviously LOL \:\)

Tawnya
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/23/08 02:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Things are busy, but okay. Trying to get ready for Christmas is always a huge task in our house, as there's so much cleaning to do, along with the last-minute shopping, baking, decorating (I finally got my outside lights up only yesterday!) and such. I'm just trying to enjoy my time with the boys, mixing in plenty of games of Uno and whiskey poker along with my chores. I took them to the golf practice green yesterday, where they really enjoy their putting and chipping contests with me, and I took S12 to the hardware store with me to buy some stuff I needed for the outside decorating, and we really had a great time.

My wife seems hell-bent on showing everyone how LITTLE help she needs, so whatever. I'm doing my share and then some, but not cleaning up after her the way I used to when she bakes. When my wife bakes, it looks like a cherry bomb went off inside of a flour bag!

Puppy

Hey, it's all about the natural consequences of their behavior. Even if it's a floury messy kitchen!
Posted By: NoCodeBlues

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/25/08 02:00 PM

Greetings, oh precious chocolate lab puppy,

I have not chimed in yet about the change in your own circumstances. I do know that coming to the decision you two did was not at all easy. I know there is a great deal of pain. But please realize, as everyone else has already said, that your wit and your wisdom are greatly appreciated. We value your contributions here greatly and we would miss you were you to decide to take leave. To recuse yourself would be unfounded and senseless.

Anyway, let me wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/25/08 03:41 PM

Hi ya {{{PDT/Denny Crane}}} Hope you are having a blessed Christmas..and that you get to have a cigar on the balcony and enjoy your day..YOU deserve the best!! \:\)

Tawnya
Posted By: saffie

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/26/08 12:33 AM

Puppy,

Visit the other board. See what's happened to Bomb. This could be the start of something wonderful for you.

I hope you and the kids had a great day.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/26/08 04:21 PM

Hiya Saffie! I've been following Bomb's sitch all along.

My Christmas was AWESOME, but now reality is setting in. Lots of tears and hugs and second-guessing here this morning. We've been SO busy, cleaning the house, shopping, decorating, baking, getting ready for the company that was all here last night (16 people), that I don't think either one of us have had much time to fully consider the enormity of what we're about to do.

Ours is a weird dynamic. We have a strong friendship, and a VERY strong, loving family, but yet a very dysfunctional marriage when it comes to intimacy.

Our D19 was crying last night to her mother. The boys still don't know. This is horrible. How can two people who have so much, and who even have a good friendship, no abuse, no drugs, no alcohol, no gambling problems . . . not even any more infidelity . . . not be able to make it work????

And yet we never have. Ever. \:\(

Puppy
Posted By: marriedCrazy

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/26/08 04:53 PM

Puppy, I feel for ya bro.

It just plain sucks. We had what some would call a "normal" Christmas too with weird undertones as the whole family knew; but no one talked about it until late last night.

It makes me sad that my family unit has broken down and we can act "friendly" yet know we're breaking it up. Just plain strange man.
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/26/08 05:12 PM

Awwww Puppy, I'm so sorry. It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? And yet, it does--it sounds like a great family, a great friendship, but not a great passion. And passion is such a fragile thing. It feels deceptively strong and powerful, but in reality it's quite delicate. And once it's gone, it's so hard to revive. (I believe it has a lot to do with vulnerability, or at least it did for me.) And yet, all the rest is supported by that.

I hope that somehow, someday you rediscover passion.
Posted By: WaitingPatiently

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/26/08 11:03 PM

Hey Puppy,

I just wanted to drop in to say Merry belated Christmas and Happy New Year. I hope you had a nice holiday (forgive me, I haven't had a chance to read the posts). Anyhow, I will likely be out of touch for the next week, so have a great New Year. God Bless.
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/26/08 11:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Ours is a weird dynamic. We have a strong friendship, and a VERY strong, loving family, but yet a very dysfunctional marriage when it comes to intimacy.

Puppy
But you know intimacy is a huge part of marriage, or at least should be in a good marriage I think. So I think that can be as big a problem as abuse, drugs, infidelity. I know it's frustrating. But on the other hand you have a great R for the future; great for the kids to see parents that are getting along and friendly I think. I try to do that, but it's very hard sometimes.

And I know you've learned a lot from this experience as have I. Not only have we worked on ourselves, but I think in the future I will be very careful with whom I have a close R with. I mean when I was 21 and met H, the main thing I was looking for was cute!!! I mean have grown so incredibly much since then. Now I will look for someone that I can trust, will be kind, honest, like my kids, and someone I can be intimate with. Maybe this time I will be too picky, but wasn't at all the first time around really. Karen
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/27/08 02:06 AM

My friend {{{Puppy}}} I wish I had words to say that would make this make sense or wave a wand and make it okay, because I would do it for you in a SECOND..you've given so much in your fight, in your marriage, and on these boards to us..I wish I could give something back to help you..but this is all I have \:\)

That and a "my name is Denny Crane" ;\)

Tawnya
Posted By: WaitingPatiently

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/27/08 04:23 AM

Puppy,

I just read this thread. It's so weird how alike all of our stories are. What happens to passion? Can you keep it alive forever? Is that what love is about? I don't think so. I think that love evolves and grows deeper over the years. I mean, definitely used to enjoy intimacy with my W, but she started saying that we didn't have any passion. Even through all of the horrible things that have gone on between us over the past few months we still love each other, we still have great family times, and yet my W still does not want to save our marriage. I just can't figure it out either... If you do please share the answer with the rest of us!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/27/08 03:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Tawnya
My friend {{{Puppy}}} I wish I had words to say that would make this make sense or wave a wand and make it okay, because I would do it for you in a SECOND..you've given so much in your fight, in your marriage, and on these boards to us..I wish I could give something back to help you..but this is all I have \:\)

That and a "my name is Denny Crane" ;\)

Tawnya


Sometimes, that's enough, Tawnya. Thanks.

Puppy
Posted By: fightingirish

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/27/08 03:33 PM

pup,

I just wanted to chime in a tell you how incredibly sorry I am that it has come to this. Knowing how hard you worked for your Marriage, and how much you have given.

You are a kind and loving person to each and every one of us on this board, and we thank you. Someday someone will benefit from that and she will be a very lucky woman.

I will pray for you and your family and sending Huge hugs your way...

((((((((puppy)))))))
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/27/08 04:47 PM

{{{PDT}}} ANYTIME..stop by and hugs are here for the taking!

Tawnya
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/31/08 02:29 AM

My wife and I are meeting with a mediator next Monday. It should be interesting, as my wife is pretty clueless about our financial situation, and I think she has her head in a clouds as to what I can afford in the way of spousal support.

We still haven't told our boys; that comes after New Year's. It's going to be rough.

Puppy
Posted By: frank_D

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/31/08 02:54 AM

reality: It's not just a concept any more.
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/31/08 03:52 AM

{{{{PDT}}}}}}} Ugh man..I just wish I had a wand to wave to make all of the crap go away and you get into the smooth sailing part of this storm my friend!

Tawnya
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/31/08 04:01 AM

Yeah, me too. I don't relish the next 6 months, I really don't.
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/31/08 04:22 AM

((((((Puppy))))). I would give you a real one if I was closer. I wish I could make it not happen for you but we all know I am no magician. I am, along with everyone else, here for you hon.

kat
Posted By: WaitingPatiently

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 12/31/08 04:36 AM

Hey Puppy,

I really am sorry that you are going through this. Just remember, you will get through this awful time and there will be better times ahead. I know that's very cliche, but it really is the truth. God has only good plans for those who love him.

Happy New Year!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 06:19 PM

***UPDATE:

We have decided to do a Retrovaille weekend before filing.

I will have more later. Had a long, long, LONG talk today -- about EVERYTHING. Bottom line is that we agreed we hadn't given it NEAR enough effort before packing it in.

Puppy
Posted By: marriedCrazy

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 06:24 PM

I think that's GREAT NEWS, PUPPY..

I'll be praying for you!!!

Tom
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 07:21 PM

That is awesome. I am glad that she is open to that. Do you have long to wait before the next session in your area? I am really happy for you.

kat
Posted By: whateverittakes

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 08:23 PM

Puppy - I've never posted to you but always try to find your posts because they are so helpful.

I'm blown away by your good news.... so incredibly happy for you I actually bounced up off my chair when I read your post about retrouvaille.

You have my every good wish for whatever it is you want out of your sitch. There are few people who have worked harder than you and grown more. You're inspirational. Thank you.

Just remember... puppies have teeth too! Don't settle for anything less than you deserve.
Posted By: whatdidido

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 08:40 PM

God is good. You guys are going to be ok, I just know it. Whatever weekend you choose, make sure you take the day or two off that you get home. You will be physically and emotionally drained and will need a recuperation day.
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 09:24 PM

I'm happy for you, Pup! I've heard great things about that and hope it will work out well for you also. I think you should be really proud of all the effort you have put into your M. I'm going to add you to my prayers, and I'm sure things will work out well! Karen
Posted By: jay

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 09:44 PM

Great news Puppy!

When I read your update tears of joy filled my eyes.

I had no idea before this year of what so many people have to face during the Christmas holiday. Tonight might be the last time my W S22 and D20 may be together as a family. I am glad for your good news and pray that others may have some also.

Tomorrow morning my son and daughter fly back to school and in the afternoon my W said we are going to go over our finances. My wife has handled them for at least the last half of our marriage and should understand where we are at.

I haven't posted to many other threads yet but I have seen your posts in many of them that I have read. You deserve the good news.

jay
Posted By: Kalni

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 09:51 PM

Puppy,
Great news indeed... Both of you feeling your M is worth fighting for.
K

PS Have you read Passionate Marriage? It's a good, different book. If not, it's worth to check it out. I feel it could help you.
Posted By: Mellenmack

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/03/09 10:34 PM

Puppy,

I am holding my breath for you along with crossing my fingers, eyes, toes, and everything else.

When do you go?

Mel
Posted By: WaitingPatiently

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 01:36 AM

Puppy,

I just read this and I am so happy and excited for you! Definitely worth some Soprano style man hugs! I will stop and say a prayer for both of you as soon as I finish this post. Good luck and God bless!

WP
Posted By: InLikeFlynn

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 01:45 AM

Good Luck!!!
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 03:10 AM

Ohhhh {{{{{{PDT}}}}} I'm so happy for you guys to give it one more shot..please let us know how it goes and I pray that the right thing will happen for you \:\)

Tawnya
Posted By: sonshyn

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 03:21 AM

Puppy,

I've never written to you, but have read many of your posts. I'm so happy for you and a huge step forward. I wish you tons of luck and many prayers.

K
Posted By: Silent Chrleader

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 03:57 AM

I am sending you good karma, Puppy!!! Remember to just live each moment as it comes and enjoy it for the gift it is. Be kind to yourself and your W no matter where the journey leads. In this way, you will be successful regardless of the outcome. You wouldn't have such a wonderful capacity for love if you weren't meant to share it! So, hang in there!!

{{{{{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}}}}}
Posted By: Silver Fox

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:43 AM

Great news Puppy, congratulations!


Quote:
Bottom line is that we agreed we hadn't given it NEAR enough effort before packing it in.


For every WAS out there, THIS is all the LBS is asking for.
Posted By: AlexEN

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 05:14 AM

Puppy,

That's great news... I'm pulling for you (and the boys) so next Christmas doesn't have to be as surreal as this one was...

-AlexEN
Posted By: hopeful4her

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 06:11 AM

That must have been some talk, puppy.

That is a great step. So much soul searching to do for the both of you.

God bless.
Posted By: runningoutoftime

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 08:00 AM

Well... I have to say I was reading along most of this sitch and thinking... well... I'm not going to tell you what I was thinking... but then I saw the retroville post I was both surprised and pleased. I'm glad to see you looking into other options.

Don't expect too much. Think baby steps.... but I'm sure you already know that.
\:\)
Posted By: Hope4us

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 01:04 PM

Excellent Pup.

I know I can't speak for everyone here, but I think that's what most of us want. A chance to do everything we can to recover our marriage. If it doesn't work then, ok, but at least you try EVERYTHING before throwing in the towel.

This is me ---->
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 02:20 PM

We even made love this morning. First time in more than 8 months.

Where's Hairdog when you need him, with his "lucky bastard!" teases!

Puppy
Posted By: NoCodeBlues

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 02:31 PM

Lucky dog!

I'm so happy for you, brother.
Posted By: Hope4us

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
We even made love this morning. First time in more than 8 months.

Where's Hairdog when you need him, with his "lucky bastard!" teases!

Puppy


Just wondering here Pup, but do you think that possibly you two just got into the rut that rolls around after a period of time after an affair and now you both realize it's not what you want?

Don't know, just an observation.

But yes, lucky bastard indeed.
Posted By: LL44

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 02:48 PM

I gasped when I read the Retro post, and gasped again about ml.

Puppy, my heart is so happy for you!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 02:53 PM

Copies from H4U's thread, just to give everyone a little background on yesterday. I still have yet to post the HORRIFIC fight we had Friday night and Saturday morning, which I will try to do sometime today. It's what led to everything:

One of the things my wife told me during our hours-long talk yesterday morning: "Do you know what I'd like us to do?"

"What?" I asked.

"Find something that we enjoy doing together -- a shared interest."

"Like when we used to work out together?" I said.

"Well, yeah, except I see enough of that place since I work there. It can be anything; I just want us to find something we can do together, and talk about together. You and the boys have your baseball and your football and your golf, and that's GREAT -- I envy that. It's been tough on me since the girls moved out (D21 and D19), and you and I just go our separate ways. I'd like us to have at least one thing we do together."

The conversation then turned also to finding some sense of PURPOSE in our lives, and then I suggested combining the two.

"This may sound stupid, but you know what I've been thinking of doing?" I asked.

"What?"

"Working at an animal shelter or something." (we both like to watch "Animal Cops" and our whole family are real animal lovers). "I'd like to volunteer a couple of hours every-other weekend or something."

"I was thinking the same thing!" she said.

"Maybe that's something we could do together, and then we could talk about what we saw that day, etc." I said.

I'm going to look into it. A woman I work with is very involved with a local rescue organization, and I'm sure she'd be a good place to start.

Yesterday we went to the mall and did some Christmas exchanges. On our way out, I asked her if she wanted to go for a Starbucks, which she almost never turns down. Instead, she said "Do you know what I could REALLY go for? A presidente margarita."

So I said "OK, let's go to that new Chili's that opened up, and I'll get you your margarita, and we can sit in the bar because there's a football game I'd like to watch (NFL playoff game)."

She immediately agreed, and we had a GREAT time, just talking and dreaming and drinking and eating chips & queso. I watched some football but also just talked to her, and LISTENED to her. I told her I missed that she used to watch Jaguars games with me. We then brought the boys home some take-out from there, got changed, and went out and saw "Seven Pounds" (GREAT movie!!!), and then went to our favorite local pub for some live music and a final drink, and this morning we made love.

It's been an incredible 24 hours.

Puppy
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Hope4us
Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
We even made love this morning. First time in more than 8 months.

Where's Hairdog when you need him, with his "lucky bastard!" teases!

Puppy


Just wondering here Pup, but do you think that possibly you two just got into the rut that rolls around after a period of time after an affair and now you both realize it's not what you want?

Don't know, just an observation.

But yes, lucky bastard indeed.


That's definitely part of it. I was looking for a LOT more effort from her after she had the affair, and yet I saw us slipping back into the same SSM rut that we've always gotten into, and I just had way too much resentment built up.

Here's our marital dysfunction in a nutshell. You're all going to think it's stupid (we do too!), but it's been going on for almost 20 years now:

We are best friends. We genuinely like and respect each other, and have always felt that God put us together for a reason, and that the other was "the one" for us. We were deeply in love and extremely happy during the early part of our marriage.

And we STILL share many of the same values, same interests, and get along great. There is no abuse -- physical, verbal, emotional, drug or alcohol -- no infidelity other than her 3-month affair in the Summer of '07 (I'm not dismissing that that's a huge thing, but there's no pattern of it in our marriage). No fights to speak of, no health issues, no family issues -- NOTHING.

Nothing except this thing where she pulls away from me, and I react poorly to it.

That's it. I don't know how to handle rejection gracefully, and she treats my ego and my libido carelessly and wounds me. The cycle repeats. I eventually stop meeting HER primary LLs (mine are PT and WOA; hers are WOA and QT) -- on purpose -- because I resent her not meeting mine. She then feels unloved, and pulls away even further.

The DEPTH to which she feels unloved came out of her in a blind rage yesterday morning! She said I was a "phony" and I didn't really love her, and how COULD I if I never touched her, and didn't sleep with her, and yadda yadda yadda. It was a horrific fight, and at one point I thought she might even hit me. It all started the night before when I decided to go to the pub with my friend, instead of asking her to do something, and instead of telling her I was going, I communicated it thru the boys while she was out at the gym, which I shouldn't have done, but she WAY overreacted, and even sent me a text message sayhing "maybe you should stay at your friend's house tonite."

I ignored that request, and went home at 11:30, but she had all the lights out and would have turned the house alarm on had our D19 not been still due to come home!

And then the huge fight yesterday morning, where she was SCREAMING at me. She said she never felt more alone, never felt more unloved, and never felt more discarded and rejected. "HOW CAN YOU WANT TO DIVORCE ME!!?" I was incredulous. I had to remind her that it was SHE who brought up D again just 10 days before Christmas! It was like this fantasy where she hadn't thought about the repercussions of everything.

Anyway, sorry for the sidebar, but that's really the only ongoing issue we have in our marriage -- her lack of intimacy/physical touch/sex, and my poor pouting reaction to it, and then it snowballs.

This has gone on for 20 years.

Puppy
Posted By: marriedCrazy

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 03:32 PM

Sounds like hard work for y'all..

but I know if anyone is up to it...Puppy is.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks; but Puppies are trainable ;\)
Posted By: saffie

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 03:44 PM

Quote:
Where's Hairdog when you need him, with his "lucky bastard!" teases!


Banned I seem to remember so I will have to award you the LB stamp!!!

So pleased to hear your news Pup. I know that in my sitch, finding each other again and doing things together has been very important. Children are a blessing, but they also do divide one's time and one can lose sight of one's H/W.

Recognising the cycle where you start to pull apart is also very important - don't forget it because it is easy to slip into. We call a 'time out' sometimes when we see ourselves sliding into it, to give one another space to calm down, and then we are willing to reconnect. It's all about communication......so Retro should really help.

((((((((HUGS)))))))))

;\)
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: marriedCrazy
Sounds like hard work for y'all..

but I know if anyone is up to it...Puppy is.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks; but Puppies are trainable ;\)


Oh man, that's classic. Just classic.

Puppy
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: saffie

Recognising the cycle where you start to pull apart is also very important - don't forget it because it is easy to slip into. We call a 'time out' sometimes when we see ourselves sliding into it, to give one another space to calm down, and then we are willing to reconnect.



Saffie,

I'd love to hear more detail about this. Because I can, specifically, see when the cycle starts each time. And yet I've been unsuccessful thus far in trying to break through it. I can literally SEE the expression in her eyes, and on her entire face, change.

To be honest, it scares me. It's like she's two different people.

Puppy
Posted By: Hope4us

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:32 PM

Just reading this Pup, and from what others have said about Retro, I think that is going to be the best step you and your W can take to fix your marriage.

I see so many similarities between you and me.

My W and I have always been best friends also. We always did everything together. Football games, shopping, golf....heck, she even will go bird watching with me sometimes (and she's got a pretty good eye for it!)...just everything.

But then work and travel for work started getting in the way and when we were together I wanted to just jump right back into US and didn't realize women need to warm back up into US and that caused resentment both ways. And then we moved and along comes a predator and here we are.

I think my W and I are excellent candidates for Retro also. Now if I could just get her to agree to go....

Maybe I'm too much of a glass half full guy, but I think you've turned the corner. Your W was able to share with you (albeit in a screaming manner) her fears and frustrations and you were able to HEAR her. Me thinks the years of a SSM may be coming to an end for you....
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:38 PM

It's amazing; neither one of us felt LOVED, and yet neither one of us have ever stopped loving the other.

"How can you say you LOVE me, if you won't touch me??!" would be my cry.

"How can you say you LOVE me, if you want to GET RID OF me??!" would be hers.

We've each been screaming past each other.

We just need to learn to recognize -- and then work thru -- this "thing" that we have. We have talked about that it SHOULDN'T be that hard, and yet it's always crippled us, and even ultimately brought our marriage to its knees.

Puppy
Posted By: ediemarie

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:43 PM

Quote:
I can, specifically, see when the cycle starts each time. And yet I've been unsuccessful thus far in trying to break through it. I can literally SEE the expression in her eyes, and on her entire face, change.

And when this happens, you do what? Hold her? Run to her? Run away from her? Pout? FIB . . .what have you done/what could you do/what will you do DIFFERENTLY?
Posted By: Hope4us

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:46 PM

Man oh man Pup. I'm right there with ya.

I'm sure my W felt unloved because I was away so much for work and when I was home I was working so much that I would be exhausted when I got home. But I was working to give her and the boys everything they want and deserve, ya know, providing for my family. It's the way I was brought up. My dad did the same thing. In my house, that was showing love. And it was normal for my W and I as my W grew up in a household where Grandpa, Step dad, Mom, Aunt all worked for our company, so the culture of what it takes to move up in our company was something she knew very well. Thing is, I think we lost each other in the race to get where we thought we wanted to be. I think we were so caught up in where we wanted to be, we forgot WHY we wanted to get there.

Ok, gotta run. Now the trick is to not let things slide again. Which I'll NEVER do if I get the chance.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:47 PM

I pout and/or get angry and pull away. I do try more now to say "What's wrong?" and get her to open up, but when she's like this, she doesn't WANT to open up, and so the cycle starts again.

We have to learn to find a way to allow the natural Martian and Venusian "rubber band" pulling away and snapping back, to actually SNAP BACK. Instead, ours pulls away and pulls away and eventually breaks.

And each time this happens (and there have been four or five distinct crises), it takes a major toll on the marital relationship, much as a massive stroke takes its toll on the brain.

Puppy
Posted By: ediemarie

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 04:51 PM

I just see similiarites(sp) between myself and your w. Our issues aren't just physcial tho, but I do find myself change in certain circumstances. What helps in our situation is physcial touch. When my H sees me go to that place, he will touch me - either hug me, or touch my arm, rub my back, any one of those things and more. It doesn't solve the problem of what makes me "change" but it does bring me back to the present and reassures me that we are a team, not opposing forces.

ETA - physcial touch is what works with me - what do you think will work with your w? You may have to try several things.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 05:00 PM

Ediemarie,

First of all, THANK YOU for your thoughts on this.

It's funny you mention touch, because although it is NOT anywhere near the top of my wife's Love Languages (she actually scored out about equal for all of the others -- Quality Time, Words of Affirmation, Gift Giving and Acts of Service -- and very low on Physical Touch), a hug DOES seem to "bring her back," so to speak.

In fact, it's what caused the breakthrough yesterday morning! After a night of hating my guts, telling me to go stay with someone else, ignoring me all morning and slamming doors, etc., I just sucked it up, said a quick "Holy Spirit, help me!" prayer, and walked into the bedroom and told her I wanted to talk to her. And when the things got venemous, instead of responding, something told me to JUST HUG HER.

And so I did.

She sobbed and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. And then started yelling at me again, saying I was "phony" and "how could you love me, if you want to divorce me?!" and everything else, but rather than try to REASON with her, I just kept HUGGING her.

I have also asked her before, when she gets in one of her moods, how I can help, and she has always said "Sometimes I just need a hug."

Man, for a non-"touch" person, she sure gets despondent when you don't touch her!!!

Woman . . . go figure!

Puppy
Posted By: lost_in_space

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 05:04 PM

Puppy

Just gotta say "attaboy". Great for both of you. A great opportunity has come your way and I know you will do whatever you can.

Watching to learn - once again!
Posted By: ediemarie

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 05:06 PM

Quote:
I just sucked it up, said a quick "Holy Spirit, help me!" prayer, and walked into the bedroom and told her I wanted to talk to her.


LOL!!! I think I have heard my H mutter that same prayer.

That touch thing comes from John Gottman. We have found that just touching each other - the act of just reaching out - diffuses so many arguments. It's hard to argue with someone who is holding you tightly and loving you in spite of all your (my) ugliness. We all just want to know that we are loved.
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 05:08 PM

If you know where the cycle starts, you have the power to knock it out of the rut. You know what doesn't work, so get out of the cheeseless tunnel and see what does work. You can do this.

kat
Posted By: Sara

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 05:47 PM

Puppy,

I am so happy for you. I know that you will get a lot out of Retrouvaille. All it takes is two people who want to make the effort. I learned so much about my husband by reading his answers to their questions. I lived with this man for 28 years, but had very little insight into his feelings.

I would caution you to be careful in this time leading up to Retro. My husband and I found the time before Retro to be a minefield of good and bad. We'd have great days, and then an awful fight. We were unable to really put the hostility to bed until they taught us how. Of course, you have developed good ability to control your actions and words. That really is the most important thing.
Posted By: sgctxok

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 06:17 PM

I believe you can do this.

I truly believe most of love and CHEMISTRY are CREATED ... by what you say and what you do.
Posted By: hope3343

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 08:33 PM

Puppy,
When I read your initial post about getting D, I always felt that this was still unresolved business.
Now in catching up with your sitch, I see that you are going to give Retro a try. That is great.
M is a tough road, there is no shame in saying that we never really knew or understood our spouses even in long term marriages. This could be the most exciting times in your life.

I came from a family that believed you stayed married for life. If you weren't happy too bad you just put up.
When my grandparents were married 60 years and they were posing in front of their cake, my cousin asked my grandfather how does it feel to be married for 60 long years...my grandfather said "if I killed a man I would be a free man today", my grandmother smacked his arm. It was what it was.

We will be praying for you.
Posted By: runningoutoftime

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/04/09 11:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Anyway, sorry for the sidebar, but that's really the only ongoing issue we have in our marriage -- her lack of intimacy/physical touch/sex, and my poor pouting reaction to it, and then it snowballs.

This has gone on for 20 years.


Sounds pretty normal to me. I think the big change is accepting that most (if not all!) relationships have this type of thing. Some things are how we are wired as individuals. I remember telling my husband that if I've been a certain way for 20 years chances are I'm not going to change a whole lot. This doesn't mean I won't try or that I won't do my best to make things work as smoothly as possible. But certain things, disorganization, my tendency to be content as a homebody rather then a party girl, me prefering to be seduced rather then being the seducer, etc... I can work on it, bend a little, be a little adventurous at times, but basically I'm going to be me...

And things that bothered me about him.... immaturity, need for a busy social life, preference for sports and action movies, the non-emotional logical approach to life (I used to joke I was married to Star Trek's Spock!), etc.... well... rather then being bothered by these things I really love and appreciate him in spite of them. Both the positives and the negatives make him a unique and individual person and I'm just going to love the entire person regardless because one thing I learned during my D is being without those negatives was not worth losing the whole person... the history... my family.

I guess I've just learned to be much more relaxed and accepting of things. I've had to deal with a lot of challenges in my life so I have to figure a life without them might not be so interesting. It's the stuff that makes us grow.

P.s. I love the idea of you and your wife volunteering together at a shelter!!! I've gotten involved with a dog rescue and also wildlife rescue and it's really neat! \:\)
Posted By: Little Engine

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 08:14 AM

PDT--I envy you having this opportunity. My prayers are for you, your W and family. Your words and advice to others here have given me clarity in times I was cloudy. Count me among the many people who are praying for you.

LE
Posted By: Doing_My_Best

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 03:38 PM

Hey PDT,

As your number one fan, I am pulling for you! \:\)

You deserve to get what you want and need. This is a great step, and I will continue to pray for you and your wife.

DMB
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 04:21 PM

You guys are all the BEST!!!!!

Something is happening in my family, and in my marriage . . . God is doing a work . . . please continue to pray for us!!

Puppy
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 04:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
You guys are all the BEST!!!!!

Something is happening in my family, and in my marriage . . . God is doing a work . . . please continue to pray for us!!

Puppy

Yes, well asking directly for help in the moment certainly left an opening for that to happen! You will continue to be in my prayers.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 05:33 PM

Thanks, Hoozhawhatchamacallit!!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 06:00 PM

Pup, you are definately in my prayers.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 06:05 PM

Thank you!

And to everyone else who has posted, I apologize if I have not responded to you personally the past few days. A LOT has been going on, and I simply haven't had the time. I do appreciate EVERYONE's notes of support, love and concern, please do know that!

Puppy
Posted By: karen43

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Thank you!

And to everyone else who has posted, I apologize if I have not responded to you personally the past few days.
Puppy
Well, I personally will forgive you, if you make sure and give us an update once stuff has calmed down for you. You know how much we all care about you and I'm thrilled that things are going better for you!!! Karen
Posted By: frank_D

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Something is happening in my family, and in my marriage . . . God is doing a work . . . please continue to pray for us!!

Puppy


You got it.
Posted By: whatdidido

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 07:29 PM

I'm not surprised at all. I can only imagine how many prayers your family is receiving, including your own. My prayer for you started something like, "God, there is this guy, Puppy,...actually Puppy Dog Tails...he's from Divorce Busting, this forum online...well, you know that already, but anyway...." hahaha...seriously, that's how I pray....just talk right to Him.

A nice gift for your wife would be The Power of the Praying Wife. I think there is one for the husband as well.

God bless.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 07:32 PM

Thank you, WDID -- I will check those books out!

Puppy

P.S. (sssshhhh!!! I talk to Him the exact same way... do you think He minds it when I don't use the wherefor's and the Thou art's and stuff???)
Posted By: runningoutoftime

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 11:28 PM

Take it slow puppy. Don't get discouraged if there's any backsliding. You are doing great.

Little doggie steps there... ;\)
Posted By: JCJ

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/05/09 11:28 PM

Hi PDT

I was so so pleased to read your update. It really struck a chord with me when you said you just hugged your wife. That gesture of a hug showed your strength and it showed how your wife how much you cared. You went beyond the natural reaction of 'proving' your point. It takes a good, strong and special person to just give like that and respond to your loved ones needs in that way. Also, speaking as a woman - or maybe just for me - when you are that overwrought a hug can go a looong way. Actions rather than words...

Wow, I'm really impressed.
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 12:16 AM

Me thinks Puppybaby is just a little frisky today. You are being just like a happy pup!

katbaby!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: runningoutoftime
Take it slow puppy. Don't get discouraged if there's any backsliding. You are doing great.

Little doggie steps there... ;\)


LOL -- thanks, ROOT. I've had more than a few people tell me that. I'm fully anticipating some major ups and downs between now and our Retro weekend.

Puppy
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 01:48 AM

Originally Posted By: JCJ
Hi PDT

I was so so pleased to read your update. It really struck a chord with me when you said you just hugged your wife. That gesture of a hug showed your strength and it showed how your wife how much you cared. You went beyond the natural reaction of 'proving' your point. It takes a good, strong and special person to just give like that and respond to your loved ones needs in that way. Also, speaking as a woman - or maybe just for me - when you are that overwrought a hug can go a looong way. Actions rather than words...

Wow, I'm really impressed.


Wow -- thanks. I was thinking about this this morning while driving and praying. I am humbled by my ability to do this, and I FULLY acknowledge that this is NOT me "in my flesh," so to speak, but rather God answering my prayer to "please help me," and the Holy Spirit working thru me.

Trust me, this was NOT what I felt like doing at the moment, LOL!!!

Puppy
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 01:50 AM

Originally Posted By: kat727
Me thinks Puppybaby is just a little frisky today. You are being just like a happy pup!

katbaby!


No doubt!!! \:D
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 02:56 AM

Those power of praying wife and hub books are WONDERFUL, I really love them and I, for a while, when there were weddings every 2 seconds it seemed would try to get those for the newlyweds..

{{{PDT}}} You rock \:\)

Tawnya
Posted By: JeffSTL

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 03:33 AM

Hey Puppy, just wanted you to know I'm here, watching your post I continue to lurk but have few insights on what works. I do remember you when I pray for everyone here in DB land. How can you forget a person by the name of PUPPY

So strange, this world of ours, maybe I think too much and don't pray enough, I see the strenght you have, I wish you luck. Please remember to do something just for yourself, those that give and give and give without doing anything for themselves burn out quick. You have helped so many here and you continue to be an inspiration to a lot of us, we have all been touched by your words your prayers and the insight you have provided.

I know everyone here is concerned for you, God Bless Puppy

M45
W41
M10.75 years
D9, D7, D7, S6
OM confirmed 12/07 merry christmas to me
New Abbreviation = WAM (Walk Away Mom) 05/31/08
W files for D 07/18/08
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 03:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: JCJ
Hi PDT

I was so so pleased to read your update. It really struck a chord with me when you said you just hugged your wife. That gesture of a hug showed your strength and it showed how your wife how much you cared. You went beyond the natural reaction of 'proving' your point. It takes a good, strong and special person to just give like that and respond to your loved ones needs in that way. Also, speaking as a woman - or maybe just for me - when you are that overwrought a hug can go a looong way. Actions rather than words...

Wow, I'm really impressed.


Wow -- thanks. I was thinking about this this morning while driving and praying. I am humbled by my ability to do this, and I FULLY acknowledge that this is NOT me "in my flesh," so to speak, but rather God answering my prayer to "please help me," and the Holy Spirit working thru me.

Trust me, this was NOT what I felt like doing at the moment, LOL!!!

Puppy

Yes!! This is what doing ministry is like--you pray and open yourself and find yourself doing and saying things that didn't first pass through your brain. Lean on that!! If you are open it will happen, over and over and over. If you don't know what to do or say or you feel overwhelmed, just empty yourself of yourself, leave agendas at the door, open your heart to the Spirit and miracles WILL happen. I promise--I've experienced it.
In fact, you will begin to count on it!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: hoosiermama

Yes!! This is what doing ministry is like--you pray and open yourself and find yourself doing and saying things that didn't first pass through your brain. Lean on that!! If you are open it will happen, over and over and over. If you don't know what to do or say or you feel overwhelmed, just empty yourself of yourself, leave agendas at the door, open your heart to the Spirit and miracles WILL happen. I promise--I've experienced it.
In fact, you will begin to count on it!


This just fascinates me. I figure, if God can speak thru an ASS or use a TAX COLLECTOR, He can certainly use ME sometimes, eh? ;\)
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 02:01 PM

Hey I think you are are going to be fine. I almost hate to ask if you were lucky enough to be frisky again today? If you take my full nickname add what the ugly ducking became, at sounds like yoohoo, you will find me. I am sure that was more eloquent before but I'm still sick. Bear with me. \:\)

kat
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: JeffSTL
Hey Puppy, just wanted you to know I'm here, watching your post I continue to lurk but have few insights on what works. I do remember you when I pray for everyone here in DB land. How can you forget a person by the name of PUPPY

So strange, this world of ours, maybe I think too much and don't pray enough, I see the strenght you have, I wish you luck. Please remember to do something just for yourself, those that give and give and give without doing anything for themselves burn out quick. You have helped so many here and you continue to be an inspiration to a lot of us, we have all been touched by your words your prayers and the insight you have provided.

I know everyone here is concerned for you, God Bless Puppy



Thanks, Jeff. Just knowing that people are reading my words, and following my sitch, is very humbling and -- as SG will tell you -- has been something that is KEENLY on my mind as I try to work things out. There is a certain "accountability" to our little group here, and you feel the burden of other people's hopefulness, and looking to you to lead the way and make your own sitch work.

Mine has been FAR from a graceful, straightline arc of success (OK, I'm mixing my geometrical metaphors here \:\/ ), but maybe that's even more like real life, and helpful to others???

Puppy
Posted By: hoosiermama

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: hoosiermama

Yes!! This is what doing ministry is like--you pray and open yourself and find yourself doing and saying things that didn't first pass through your brain. Lean on that!! If you are open it will happen, over and over and over. If you don't know what to do or say or you feel overwhelmed, just empty yourself of yourself, leave agendas at the door, open your heart to the Spirit and miracles WILL happen. I promise--I've experienced it.
In fact, you will begin to count on it!


This just fascinates me. I figure, if God can speak thru an ASS or use a TAX COLLECTOR, He can certainly use ME sometimes, eh? ;\)

LOL! No doubt!! Just look at the apostles--hardly a stellar group. Surely they were a source of discouragement to Jesus, and they abandoned him in his hour of greatest need. And often they just didn't GET it. (I'm biased, but seems to me the women of the group had a better understanding!) But with great help, they managed, and here we are 2000 years later. It isn't about the quality of the vessel, but rather its willingness.
Posted By: JWM

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 04:15 PM

Puppy, I am overwhelmed right now reading and catching up on your situation. I had not kept up because I thought it was over for you. God is working in all of our lives.

Before I forget...CONGRADULATIONS!!! You are such an inspiration to us all.

The "hug" you gave your wife...it just resonates so much with me right now. Two nights ago my W and I talked about our pending separation and setting up visitation for D7. After it was done, we were both sad. I took her hand, pulled her to me, and hugged her. I was so afraid she would pull away...she didn't and just hugged me closer. It was the first time that we had touched each other in months. It felt so good.

We are closer now, but I'm still afraid to touch her though I want too.

You have helped me so much...
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: hoosiermama
It isn't about the quality of the vessel, but rather its willingness.


I love that!!!!
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 05:19 PM

John,

One can never get enough hugs, I believe. Or chocolate-chip cookies.

Puppy
Posted By: WaitingPatiently

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 07:15 PM

Hey Puppy,

You are still in my prayers! Remember, with God nothing is impossible! You can do this.

WP
Posted By: Phoenixdeux

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 07:35 PM

Puppy,

If you're happy, then I'm happy. I'm glad you are giving it another shot and things are going well. The fact that she was so mad and you had the big fight is great news; much better than a ho-hum, let's try retrouvaille. Keep in mind that some things won't change. She likely won't become someone that's all over you showering you with PT....but hopefully you'll meet in the middle.

There is one thing I disagree with though

Quote:
"Seven Pounds" (GREAT movie!!!),


You must have been all high from ML and flying...because this was a snoozer. Okay movie at best.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 08:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Phoenixdeux

There is one thing I disagree with though

Quote:
"Seven Pounds" (GREAT movie!!!),


You must have been all high from ML and flying...because this was a snoozer. Okay movie at best.


We didn't do the bunny-hump until the next morning, so I guess we just have different taste in movies. More than 12,000 votes at imdb.com gave it a higher rating (7.6/10.0) than all but three of the other Top-10 box office grossers (Benjamin Button, Doubt, and Slumdog Millionaire).

Different strokes for different dogs!!

Puppy
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Phoenixdeux
Puppy,

If you're happy, then I'm happy. I'm glad you are giving it another shot and things are going well. The fact that she was so mad and you had the big fight is great news; much better than a ho-hum, let's try retrouvaille. Keep in mind that some things won't change. She likely won't become someone that's all over you showering you with PT....but hopefully you'll meet in the middle.


That's all I ask for, Phoenix. In fact, like most high-drive's, I'd be thrilled with meeting somewhere LESS than the middle, so long as it's coupled with sincere effort, instead of just an "Well -- that's just the way I am!" that a lot of us get.

Puppy
Posted By: Sugar and Spice

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 08:40 PM

Sometimes you just have to scratch a dog behind the ear.
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 08:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
John,

One can never get enough hugs, I believe. Or chocolate-chip cookies.

Puppy


NO wonder I love you Pup..LOL..those are 2 of my favorite things \:\)

Here's hoping you get lots of hugs in the future my cigar smoking friend \:D

Tawnya
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/06/09 09:16 PM

"DENNY CRANE!" hahahaha
Posted By: kat727

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/07/09 12:06 AM

I gave you some help and then you must not have understood. Let me know. Are you still the happy pup?

kat
Posted By: Tawnya

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/07/09 01:23 AM

LOL Pup..yep.."I am Denny Crane" \:D

Tawnya
Posted By: JAK58

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/07/09 01:52 PM

Seven Pounds, LOVED it, great movie.

Puppy,

So glad to see the turn of events for you. I am praying for both of you and hope that retro helps the both of you.

JAK
Posted By: Mellenmack

Re: Even Puppies Need a Pat - 01/07/09 07:44 PM

Puppy,

I am glad things are finally moving in your desired direction. \:\)

I have thought about you a lot. I am glad for how far you have come. I know that you don't agree with anyone's A, no matter what. I can't say I disagree. But sometimes, I get a vibe of so much hatred for it (the A) from you. I don't blame you, but sometimes, it's almost like....I don't know.

Are you ever going to be able to forgive her? I wonder. I know none of this is coming out right. I have read thru parts of your old threads and have kept up with this one.

From the woman's perspective. From my perspective having the A. The ones who forgive unconditionally, take their wives in their arms, and truly forgive...those have it right, for ME, they would have it right.

I'm probably babbling and you prolly could care less what I say. And that's fine. But I would have a hard time, feeling like I owed you something for the rest of my life, you know what I mean. Of course she owes you the faithfulness, and I believe you do/and will have that. But it's almost like you want her to get up every morning and says she's sorry. Maybe I am wrong.

Good luck at Retro. You are in my thoughts. If you can forgive and let her back in, maybe mine can too. And I want to have that hope.

Mel
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