Good Morning!
Some one sent this to me. Pretty good stuff. It does have to do with the Plan A in SAA but it's still really good nuggets in it. Here it is, enjoy......
Looking back ... I can see I worked myself through a very awkward "plan A" .... although I never heard of plan A until years into recovery and I started poking around this site. Looking back ... I can see my efforts to become differentiated ... although I did not read Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage " until years into recovery.
Plan A is very much complementary to Schnarch's ideas of differentiation. Developing a positive identity within the context of a marriage struggling to overcome infidelity. Developing a strong sense of self-worth that is valid both within and outside the boundaries of the marriage.
I can NOW see plan A as a path to greater self worth and NOT necessarily as a plan to "win back" the heart and mind of the infidel ... although that might happen. It is a plan to differentiate myself and identify myself as a worthy person apart from the circumstances of the marriage relationship. Plan A'ers are not like doormats to wipe your feet upon and to mis-use .... more like a *welcome home* sign... if both persons choose to re-inter the marriage! Plan A says : "I can hold onto my better self under the worst of circumstances".
Schnarch says: "We develop a contingent identity based on a 'self-in-relationship'. Because our identity depends on the relationship, we may demand that our partner doesn't change so that our identity won't either."
Then ... comes the grenade of infidelity tossed into the marriage and the entire fusion of identities is blown apart! The aftermath of the grenade then boils down to this question ....
WHO THE HECK AM I ... AND ... WHO THE HECK ARE YOU?
And, asking this question to the *fogged-in* infidel is pointless. They got INTO the affair because they were lost to themselves, and went searching for a new self .... and, INSTEAD of differentiating themselves ... they fused identity to yet another relationship ... actually moving away from a healthy differentiated view of their self-worth ----> I am wonderful because my affair partner thinks so.
Plan A says and demonstrates to OURSELVES: I am not some weak pathetic person deserving to be abandoned or cheated. I am demonstrating decent and loving behaviour. I am worthy of love and devotion. ... If the infidel notices .... double bonus points. If not, I become better differentiated along the way ... and I can see my strengths despite terrible and hurtful circumstances.
Once I become more fully differentiated and have stable and accurate self-worth (after the grenade) ... I am then in the position to identify
healthy choices. I can honestly say that I will be a sensational woman within this marriage... or after this marriage terminates.
I think I finally understand what I went through. I understand that I am the better woman for it. I understand my spouse is the better man for it.
That is a powerful message to myself. The anxiety that floods the betrayed spouse is the perceived loss of identity . Self worth and a differentiated identity is the harvest of plan A .
Here's some more!....
An affair more than a fantasy - it is a search for identity.
Any adult with a strong sense of self does not dirty themselves in such a way to destroy others.
A weak person has an affair.
A person who needs a mirror to tell them who they are has an affair.
A person with poor coping skills has an affair.
A person who ignores his/her vulnerabilities has an affair.
A person willing to lower their self standards has an affair.
T2L, thanks for these postings. the second post really has hit me...
A weak person has an affair - check
A person who needs a mirror to tell them who they are has an affair - check
A person with poor coping skills has an affairs- so check
A person who ignores his vulnerabilities has an affair - so so check
A person willing to lower their self standards has an affair - check - especially lowering themselves to garbage level
How true how true
How are you doing today??? check in...thinking about you.
Hello there!
Well I am okay. Have had a few crying days. I think I am PMS'ing. Plan B is hard, but its harder sharing and living like OW doesn't exist. So I'll get through it, always do. At times I think forget it and I want to give up but then as much as I have read divorce isn't any shorter or easier and I still won't be rid of him since we share kids. I will have to deal with him forever. God give me grace.
My 19 year anniversary is in 10 more days. Have asked several girl friends to go out to dinner with me. Several have responded so far, so I am looking forward to it.
Otherwise all is okay. Just got back from S10 last football game. H didn't go so it was a good Plan B day. Today I have been in Plan B for 14days exactly.
Anyways I hope everyone else is doing okay....{{{hugs}}}
{{{{{{{{{{T2L}}}}}}}}
Good you are checking in. I had a lazy day. D15 in soccer tournament - went to her 2 games and she refereed in between so I came home, took a nap and read. Not much done today. Tomorrow H comes to her 2 games. See how that goes. H has been texting both of his Ds. I think they got to him on Thansgiving.
Glad you made plans for your anniversary. Is H good at remembering these occasions?
So you H skipped the game. Did he tell S10 that he wasn't going or just not show up?
Hang in there. You have been remarkable.
We will get through this one day at a time.
My cousin called me today and I told her what was happening and she was shocked. She said that she would never imagine that H would ever cheat. He was not the type. Funny, I thought the same thing!
Hey you, got your message, was at the game then we went for a burger afterward.
Yes H skipped the game. Isn't it funny how during Plan A he made every game and now he hasn't made any. He finally scheduled a visit tomorrow. He talked to D17 tonight. Found out we were at home and not at my moms for Thanksgiving. He was not happy about it. He told D17 that why didn't we call him and he thought that we could put things behind to that day. Yeah - NOT! He wants me to pretend OW doesn't exist. Sorry Bud I am in Plan B and I am not breaking it.
Anyways gotta get to bed got church in da morning.
G'night
Hi T2L, hope you had a great Sunday. We spent the day at the soccer field.
H came to watch the games. We talked a little bit. Nothing too exciting. I offered to get him a soda when I went up to concession stand. He did stay there from noon to 6 pm and took D15 out to grab something to eat.
It is true that they are like polite strangers. It was very hard not to treat him as my H. Can't believe he is "dating Ow". But I did well, no arguments or hint of anything to aggravate him.
I spent last night putting together a tv stand. I did it pretty well but still having some trouble with the drawer. But I did it alone and it kept me busy.
Hope your day was good.
Where is everybody???
Hi Hope,
Thanks for checking up on me. I had a nice Thanksgiving break, hope you did too.
Yes, I read SAA and about 100 other books as well. I think Plans A & B are brilliant along with DR too. I guess you could say I'm in Plan B now although it kind of happened by default - I filed the Counterclaim and I haven't heard from my H since. So actually, he's gone dark on me too.
It's kind of like the staring game - who's going to blink first? I'll give you a hint - not me!
I've got a very busy week at work so probably won't be posting much until this weekend.
Take care and stay strong everyone!
T2L,,,where are you girlfriend? Hope you are doing well and keeping busy. Hang in there. This is hard because in Plan A you had to always be proactive and now you have to wait. Still praying for you and all of us. check in...
Marisol, all and others miss you. Hope your holiday was ok.
Silver Fox thanks for stopping by. this is so difficult but I do feel stronger as time goes by. Some days are better than others. take care. we made it through the first holiday.
Good Morning everyone,
I'm sorry I've been away, nothing mind shattering has happened, I've just been busy trying to focus on me. Doing only so so with that. Mainly because he's around.
T2L I don't think I need to tell you to stay strong, God's with all of us - just ask. I've been asking alot, not getting tons of answers but I know God's there.
Not sure if I'm doing any of this right, Sometimes it seems so contradictory. How to be good to yourself and require respect, but then accept H and his meandering does not seem respectful to me.
Guess what I did???? Go ahead guess. Ok you'll never guess, even people I know were like - what are you NUTZ!?!
I drove from Chicago to Dallas and went to the Cowboys came the weekend before Thanksgiving. All by myself, oh with my dog.
It was great, and scary but fun. I didn't tell H, he was out of town at a "friends" (I think they really are only friends, she's not blonde, tall, and beautiful, but wait they go for garbage so maybe their just sleeping together) Anyway he comes home Sunday to a note saying I had taken Boomer to Dallas be back Monday night
He wanted to take Boomer that weekend to his "friends" house I said no his pa's too hurt, and so when I talked to him later he was upset I could take him but not him. Well since I was on the phone and safe, I said you know your not taking him to some womans home to be a family for a weekend. You can take him to your p's but that's it. He said why couldn't I just say that. I'm like I just did. He accepted it, he did say well maybe I'll get a dog of my own.
On another note - musical that is, I'm listening to KLOVE radio, some great inspirational Christian songs. And I'm fasting every week till Christmas, something different each week. This week - no tv, next week no crappy talk radio - 3rd week no cookies, cakes, donuts, treats, etc. That should be tough a week b4 Christmas and then the week of Christmas instead of fasting it's more of a GIVING Fast, I'm going to try and be a friendly, loving, giving Christian, more a celebration of the season.
It makes me feel so good to the place I've come if I look at myself and not my situation.
Kinda like you hope and putting together that stand ALL by yourself.
HiAll, welcome back!!! I don't think you are nutz going to Dallas I think you have an independent spirit. Good for you doing something you want to do. How was the game. I am definitely not a Dallas fan because the OW is a huge fan.
Go Giants!
Glad you are keeping busy and GAL. You seem to be really detaching. Good idea with the fasting and sacraficing before the holiday.
take care
Just heard from T2L, she is having trouble with her computer and waiting to get it fixed.
She is still in Plan B and no word from her H. Our best wishes and prayers are with you!!! Hang tough
Ok guys I'm back! My computer had issues. Off to church be back in a while to catch up.
Ok guys I'm back! My computer had issues. Off to church be back in a while to catch up.
Hi everyone! Sorry for being gone so long! My family and I left for Oklahoma last Tuesday night and got back very late Sunday. I stayed home from work on Monday to help my parents clean out the RV and I was pretty busy at work yesterday and today catching up on stuff.
The trip was fantastic! We had such a great time. I am so glad that we went.
H made no contact to D16 on Thanksgiving. H's mom didn't contact her either. Like mother like son huh? I was pretty disappointed. Not sure if I told all of you that his cell phone got shut off. So even if he did at least call her from OW phone I would have accepted the call so that he could talk to her. But I guess not. Then I found out he went to Colorado with OW AGAIN! He has no money but flies to Colorado?? Unbelievable. From what I found out, OW mother bought him the ticket to go with her. Wow...pretty sad if you ask me.
I got an email Monday morning from H. He asked about D16 and told me the only way to reach him was by email since his cell got shut off, his cable and internet was shut off, and he had no car because it got repossessed. So basically he would rather live like that with OW than with his family. I just shake my head.
If I do nothing with the D, it will be dismissed on Jan 2nd. I have been thinking about this a great deal and the way I have been feeling lately I think it would be best to just let go. A man who cannot take care of himself let alone his kids is not a man at all. He has hurt me more than once. He shows no remorse. He makes no effort to reach out to his D16. He shows no signs of change. It's just not worth it to me. I have met some really great people lately that have shown me that there are good people out there. Good men out there who will treat me with respect and courtesy and dignity. My H milked me to the end and took everything away from me leaving me in one of the worst positions a person can be in.
IDK girls....just me thinking I guess.....
I see everyone is doing well and hanging in there. That is all that we can do right? Take care of ourselves and our children.
{{{{{{marisol}}}}}}}}}}] welcome back!!! we did miss you. glad you had a good holiday. We all survived.
Wow your H is going down the tubes financially. My H's bank acct is down to $9. He is talking about taking money from his savings plan which really annoys me since he is just burning up credit card bills but he has no idea how to handle money financially.
I understand that you are ready to drop the rope and move on. It is your decision. My only concern is take some time before you start a new relationship. We are so vulnerable right now and it is so easy to make mistakes because we are lonely. One friend of mine whose marriage broke up a month before mine, has jumped into a R recently and now she is even more messed up. She still have unresolved feelings for H even though she practically hates him. The guy she met is D and his wife was a WAW and he is still broken over the failure of the M.
Tread lightly!
My D15 is now seeing her father. Will see how that goes.
(((((((HOPE)))))))) Glad to hear your H is seeing your daughter. That is great.
I have been going back and forth on my decision. There is no one else in the picture. I have just met people and have been introduced but no relationships. I know I am no where near ready for that. I still have deep feelings for H. That will take time to heal and diminish so that I can let someone else in when I am ready.
It is just crazy to see how our H's have put themselves in these positions for what? For someone who they will not be able to trust because they entered a relationship with someone who was already married. It is exactly what T2L posted earlier about someone who has an affair lowers their standards and is weak.
Then I read all of these stories from other ppl and their situations and the pain is so overwhelming. Life should not be about pain and suffering and deceit or lies. Life is a blessing, it should be prosperous and fun and fulfilling! We are waiting for our H to snap out of it. Some have waited years. But it took them no time to jump into their adulterous relationships, and leave us, and not look back. Why should we wait? What exactly are we waiting for? We are all beautiful women on the inside and outside. We deserve the best and nothing less. If our H cannot see that then that is their loss. And it will be too late when the fog clears.
Sorry for venting...just a bit frustrated.
Hey marisol, I agree with you that look at our H's jumping into relationships and some people waiting for years. We know when enough is enough. Since I am really trying to work on myself I am just taking my time and trying to discover who I am after all these years. It took me a long time to start to feel beautiful again and I know that I need to work on the inside also. If I am going to be able to have a successful R in the future I have to make changes within myself. If our H's fog clears and we have moved on it is sad for them. Some days I feel very discouraged and it is so tough just to go to work knowing that I might run into Ow. Did you see the posts for a few days ago that I received an e-mail from someone that wants to expose them. I am walking on eggshells.
You have a right to be frustrated. It is also tough with the holidays also. We pray and support each other.
T2L, where are you? Did you computer go on the fritz again?? I hope all is well.
Yesterday was an ok day. Heard from our good friend who now works in China. He e-mailed saying how upset he was about our marriage and asking about our D15. I told our friend that I told H that our friend now knew about the A. (only did not tell him it was his coworker.). Our friend asked to stay at our house for a week or 2 during the summer with his family. I told him fine.
I go to my weekly meeting and H is there. I semi-ignored him. After the meeting I usually try to walk out with him. But I just got up after the meeting and walked out without even looking at H.
I am home later and my phone rings. It is H. He asks was I supposed to pick up D15 from practice. Duh it is 5:25 and she is supposed to be picked up at 5:30. So I said no she is getting ride and H says you never told me today if she needed a ride and you left the meeting quickly (180??) Then I said I got a nice email from our friend, and H says so did I. I said you did and H says well I guess he knows. I said but I did not tell him with who ...yet. H said he was going to e-mail him back..yeah right. Then we talk about finances and H says he needs to take money out of his savings plan. He is basically putting about $1000 a month on his credit card and paying minimum balance. Now he is hitting our future savings. I am pretty aggravated. This OW is a black spider and she wants to be wined and dined. But I plan on taking some from my savings plan but putting it into a CD for each of my daughters to protect some of my savings, then after the new year take another amount out and do the same thing. Trying to balance the financial playing field if H asks for D.
Well one day at a time. At least H is getting a reality check on finances and living on his own. I wonder if H is going to try and move in with OW since he is having trouble making the rent on his $1200 apt.
Hope - I have that same feeling.....H has not paid his father rent in two months...H is living in a rental house that his father owns. I know his father is not going to put up with it much longer so he will have to move but where? The only place would be with his mom in a retirement community or with her. If he goes with her he will loose his son for sure. His son's mother will not allow that. Oh well, nothing I can do but take care of me.
I did not see the post about someone emailing you to expose them. Did you respond? Did they find out on their own? Wow...they would both be fired right?
I was looking through some old emails cleaning my folders up and came across an email my H sent to me last year on 11/21 and it said this: "You are the bomb!! You make me better!! You make me laugh,cry and horny all at the same time!!! You Rock!!
I'm the luckest man in the world!! All the guys want a wife like you!! But to bad cause I got her!!! Love you!!"
I thought to myself....wow I read this and it was like I was reading an email he has sent to OW. He said those exact same words about being the luckiest man in the world to OW.
Its things like this that make me think it was all just words and there was no true meaning behind them.
Hi Marisol, think the e-mail came from someone she knows or x-bf that they broke up after 4 years. I did get a call and they did not have nice things to say about her. My H is in for a wild ride and is an idiot to be taken in by her. I know that others have a suspicion and it is getting bad to come in because I keep thinking about it.
I would send that e-mail that H sent last year to OW...lol..not really but good to think about. I have some old cards my H sent me and it is sad to look at them.
Hey guys! Sorry got back from church late last night so I didn't have time to catch up. Nothing new here day 19 of Plan B. I have had no contact and no boundary testing. I am sad and it is very hard but as I said before sharing my H is not a lifestyle. I never intended to share for the rest of my life. A choice must be made and he wants to cake eat and wait on having to make a choice. Sorry not gonna have cake. I loved Plan A knowing I gave him lots of cake so he could see, feel and remember how good cake was. Made some changes and he could see how it could be if he came home. So Plan B is his deciding time, I just now pray that he makes a decision before I lose all love, which is diminishing daily unfortunately. I keep praying God give me grace and strength to at least make it to the one year mark.
I read this website for betrayed spouses one time. It polled them asking them top 10 things to know when you go through something like this. One of the top ten was do not make any life decisions for at least 1 year. I think its even the same in the event of a death. I think because we could make a decision based on anger and sorrow instead of wisdom. Which for me I go between being super angry and then really sad. I hear this is normal in Plan B and that it evens out after about 3-4 weeks. I should be concentrating on myself more and thinking about him less.
I think we need to use the time to work on us and not obsess over them-ya I know its stinking hard! I feel myself obsessing and I hate it. God does not want us using all this time on these pointless thoughts and all of our obsessing can't change a thing...I'm talking to myself right now...LOL
Today I am going to purpose to stop all this stinkin thinkin cuz its driving me crazy. I am going to thought stop today and try and find something on that list to do to keep busy. I really wanna go get a massage!
Ya on the subject of dating. I have 2 close friends who are going through the same thing as me but 2 months before me. Well guess what they both started dating right away to kill the pain. Guess what 2 friends are regretting it. I laugh cuz they told me to date and I said no way jose! I will not date until I feel over my H and complete as a single person. I don't want or need to have someone by my side to feel whole, happy and loved. That's the wrong order. you don't go to someone to feel that, you should feel that first then you can date. It hilarious, now they are trying to figure out how to get out of these relationships. I tell em I sure am glad to hear you guys cuz it makes me really glad I have made the choice I made.
Ya know Hope all the reality checks are great! Don't forget to use those people to your advantage! God sent em your way for a reason so use them!
Marisol, I think that your H may have meant what he said when he wrote that a year ago. Remember that in SAA he explains the addiction and how we cannot treat them any differently than addicts. I think its wonderful that he has no resources. Gotta hit rock bottom before you can look up I always say. This is the life he chose for now and he must feel the weight of it. Its a good thing and now he can't bum off you which is even better.
For both of you guys it doesn't matter if they move in with OW, it cant really get any worse I mean they are already sleeping together. I think possibly the moving in can rip the fantasy apart as well. Now its not this fairy tale anymore. Now you gotta take out the trash and wake up to this person every morning. Then they can start to see the character flaws in them. Its not always bad, if it does happen.
T2L, that is why we love you...You make soooo much sense. Your right if H moves in to OW house -- It is her house not his, and if we end up selling our house he will have nothing because it won't be enough for him to buy something. Also your right about the day to day living. H is a SLOB and OW is very neat and that would be a disaster. Great perspective.
I am around also if you need a pep talk. 10 days is not a long time unless you are waiting. You are a doer and I know you are impatient but you are surviving one day at a time. Get that darn massage!
I read this on rejoice ministries which gave me some insight on how our H's will do during Christmas. I modified it for space issues.
What Are Holidays Like For My Prodigal?
In short, holidays are horrible out in the far country of life. Everything we see, hear, or do is a reminder of what life was like before our home was attacked by satan.
We prodigals attempt to deal with holidays in one of three ways. The most painful is to attempt to replicate our family’s traditions in our own miserable surroundings. Secondly, we may attempt to totally ignore the holidays. For prodigals where the enemy has planted another person into the picture, the prodigals may attempt to join in on his/her family’s holiday traditions. If you are a stander, rejoice when that happens. Rejoice? Yes, praise God that is taking place. Let me explain.
Have you ever noticed an adult in church for the first time in their life? They are uncomfortable as they attempt to do what everyone else is doing, without knowing the reason. That is what I was doing and I can promise you that is what your prodigal is experiencing at the family gatherings of that other person as well.
When the other woman’s extended family would gather, I was treated politely, but nevertheless as an outsider. I did not know the incidents they were talking about. I barely knew the people there, much less the grandmothers they spoke about.
If you want to see a dance called "The Prodigal Wiggle," let Uncle what’s-his-name start loudly telling old anecdotes about the other person’s spouse! The prodigal knows that family’s treadmill of tradition is about to flip them when good old Unc finished his story with, "I sure miss him/her not being here," and the prodigal is certain every set of eyes in the room is on them, silently wondering, "Why are you here? This is our family." I never attended an "other person" function that I did not feel totally out of place.
I left every holiday gathering in the far country nursing my wounds, after being flipped by another family’s treadmill of tradition. The salt in my wounds was hearing my children innocently report on "holiday as usual" at home, as Charlyne worked alone to carry on our family traditions. That, my friend, is one of those times when the Holy Spirit is quietly saying, "Why don’t you stop this foolishness and go home to your family?"
We prodigals think we are made of tough stuff and dismiss that urging, thinking the next far country treadmill trip will be different. The process is repeated over and over until finally we are beat up enough to go home.
Do you realize how many journeys toward home are started on holidays? For most prodigals, being flipped by the treadmill of tradition softens the heart. This Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year holidays, as God plants the urge to minister to your prodigal in your spirit, may you always seek His will and only His will for your direction.
I thought this was interesting and can only pray that is what happens.
Stay strong.
Just another tid bit I found by the writer of SAA.......
About 95% of affairs die a natural death within 2 years of discovery. And 70% of those 5% that survive to marriage end in divorce. Even the 30% of the 5% (1.5%) are not all happy marriages. So the odds of your husband finding happiness with his present lover is so unlikely that it's safe to say that his affair is the worst mistake of his life. But because you're married to him, it's the worst mistake of your life, too. And you didn't do anything to deserve it.
{{{{{T2L}}}}}}}}
TGIF. I do agree with those statistics. And the dumb WAS end up having an awakening and most of the time it is too late.
How are things going for you? Are you keeping busy? I spent the last few days putting up some Christmas decorations and me and D15 put the ornaments on the tree. The only part that was a little sad was when D15 put the angel on top (that was always what her Dad did), but I did not cry just said matter of fact, Colleen you have the honor of putting the angel up.
I also put the ornaments up that were given to H (NFL) right in the front so when he stops over he will see life goes on. I just want to put some lights up on our palm tree which I plan on doing tonight. T2L you would be proud of me.
Talked to SIL this morning, she said that I should go back to CT next year and take D15 with me. Tell her brother that this is the results of his behavior and you know where to find me. She said he will not make it on his own with his family gone. What a SIL I have! She would make a great DBer. It is something to consider, since as long as me and D15 are here, he can have his A with OW, continue to see D15 and know that I am waiting for his return. thoughts?
Well I am off to the gym. I am completely out of Plus sizes and that is a major achievement for me. I have staff meeting with H today, got new jeans that fit well, black stretch shirt -- hope it is not cancelled! I feel strong and confident today. T2L I wish you my strength today.
When is X-mas party planned. I think now that the house is decorated I think I might plan some of the neighbors and D15's friends to come by. take care everyone.
Well I am off to the gym. I am completely out of Plus sizes and that is a major achievement for me. I have staff meeting with H today, got new jeans that fit well, black stretch shirt -- hope it is not canceled!
Whooo Hooooo! You go Hope! Out of the Plus sizes that is so very cool and what an accomplishment! Proud of ya!
T2L, this yoga/weights has saved my sanity some days. I don't have to depend on anyone and just go. Are you still taking salsa? What are you doing this weekend? I know you have plans for dinner next week with friends for anniv. day. Wish I could fly out and support that day. We WILL get through this. We just have these trigger days that make us go off.
Well went to gym at lunch and worked my butt off (or should I say on --trying to build it up--lol). Staff mtg - Saw H in hallway and normally I stop and talk to him. He is wearing this heavy leather jacket (it is in 50s today), I said "a little cold" and laughed and walked into the hallway of the meeting.
Then I get stopped by the admin who asked me a few weeks ago if everything is ok and she asks again, are you ok? She said you seem distracted, and then asks me if I was mad at her. I told her absolutely not. Then she invites me out next week to "talk" and come over her house and she promises to keep it private. Well H comes down the hall and sees me talking to admin and I could see he looks nervous (I already told him about previous comment), so admin starts to walk away and said I will contact you about next week. H just looks at me. I go into the meeting and 3 minutes in I find out they are talking about a presentation for next week that I am not part of. I ask my boss guess I don't need to be here. I get up and I see H trying to make eye contact, I sortva do a 1/2 wave and slither out of the room!
Another 180 - Normally I would have stayed for the meeting just to see H. It must be the weather because today I did not care.
So what are the weekend goals everyone??? T2L -- what do you have planned. I did see 4 Christmas last week and it was funny. My D15 thought it was a little depressing because of all the divorced parents but Vince Vaughn is a riot. It might be good for you to see something funny. Also guess what was on tv? Christmas Story!!! You have GOT to see it. Can't believe you never saw it. Get it and watch. That is your homework.
I wish everyone a good weekend. check in..these are the times we need to support each other. hang on it is going to be a wild ride.
T2L, well day from h%ll. AGAIN.
I come in this morning and taped to my monitor is this....
Your husband is screwing the pig ____ _____.. what a dumb a$$
out in the open. some people come in at 6:00 am...I came in at 8:40 am so I do not know who saw it if anyone.
I took it down and tried to call H. No answer -- I do not leave message. I am really shook up. Go into restroom and probably cry for 1/2 hour. Cleaned myself up and went to yoga during lunch. stressing stressing.
I start to freak out (forget DBing), and go to my H's office. H at his desk and i said here is what I came into this morning and tape on his monitor, I want to talk to you outside. H turns pale, and we go out. I said this is destroying not only your career but mine. I think someone wants me to know so when you get turned in they will say I knew about it and did nothing.
H says I think it was one of the 2 girls in the other office and I think the e-mail you got was from OW xBF. I said who cares who sent it--people know and I think it is getting around to everyone. I tell H look what this has done -- I shake his arm and say WAKE up. what are you doing. This is nothing but a sleazy A with your employee. H said well our M was no good and I wanted out. So I said so that was the reason you had to go and cheat. I said when the day is done it was all about sex. It started off as a mistake and will only get worse. WTH do you think this is Romeo and Juliet and look what happened to them. I said quite a bit more (definitely Love busting) but at that point I was over the edge.
Then I drop the bomb. I am tired of staying here being embarrassed, hurt, shamed because of YOUR actions. After the new year, I am going to look for a job back East and move there. It is a shame because I like it here and like the warm weather. I am NOT going to wait for you to lose your job or being embarrased by your actions and I am taking D15 with me. so H in fog fog fog babble says you are just leaving because I don't want the M anymore. I said the M was s$it, I never want to go back to that lousy M, I have been working on myself and making good changes and I will meet someone new and they will have all the benefits unlike you who jumped into this A and has changed none of your behavior. Isn't that what you want for me to "move on" and then I will have a good guy that will be involved in our lives and you could stay here and ROT in Tx with OW.
If you want me then you will you have to fight for me but in the east. I am so done. That note was so true -- OW is a pig and you are a dumb a..
I lost it maybe for good. H did not show one sign of being out of the fog and I think he was looking at me as a "science experiment". Time to go dark. Wedding ring comes off as of tomorrow and when the questions start I am going to say "ask H".
this has been one of my lowest momemts.
T2L, I will be home tonight.
I hope your day goes better than mine when H shows up again at your house. aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
Awe, I am so sorry. My day not a lot better. Crying a bit here and there with the 19 year anniversary tomorrow.
Yes you LB'd. Oh well. Personally and its only opinion. I would like to see you do a really strong 3 week Plan A to perfection so that a Plan B would be a lot more effective but if you feel there is no other way than going dark then that's fine too.
Sure call me tonight about 8 my time.
Breathe, don't be to hard on your self. Go dark for the rest of the day until you get your game plan on. I will check back in an hour or so.
{{{{Hugs}}}}
IMO i think you did good. I have to wonder sometimes at the sense of allowing yourself to be personally attacked and embarrassed.
You are worth 1000 of him and OW. why should he not be told some home truths. You got it out.
IMO now is the time to Db. Caution though, dont say anything that your not prepared to carry through.
All our sitch are horrible. I know what I am wishing for this xmas for myself and everyone here.
Trying2Live, I am sorry that you are crying and not surprised. I know tomorrow will probably be rougher for you than Christmas. I will call you tonight. We can maybe have a drink when we are talking, get sloshed and cry then feel better.
I decided to throw up a stich today in same forum. I always feel guilty about taking over yours even though we all seem to do it in your posting. You know that I still live in this one!
I am mad at myself for totally losing it. I said words that I didn't even know that I knew...went down to his level of lowness which really upset me.
Mof
thanks for your response. I think I did lose it because of his indifference and embarrassment here. I have a career here that will also go out because of H's actions. The gossip could really negatively impact me.
((((((((((HOPE)))))))))))
I'm so sorry to hear about what happened.
I think the key moment to look at was when he said the "M was no good and I wanted out". To me that says he doesn't have true feelings for OW. He just didn't know how to cope with his M and didn't know how to fix it so he thought this was his way of ending it because its EASIER that way. People always want the EASY way out. It's too HARD to stay and try to fix things. It takes TOO much EFFORT to make things work. This is the part that kills me because today's society has made it so EASY for people to get married and get divorces that no one takes marriage seriously anymore. Marriage is a unique, sacred, and blessed commitment that nowadays is more of a show instead of it being a once in a lifetime moment in a person's life.
Your H and my H saw cheating as a "way out". It was easier to hurt us in the worst way possible instead of standing up and saying there is something missing between us lets try and fix it.
It is truly a sad thing.......
{{{{{{{{{marisol}}}}}}}}}} where have you been? How is everything going with you?? Miss you.
Thank you for saying the right thing. I agree nowadays it is just a "throw away" society including marriage. It makes me feel good that there is others like myself who still believe in our M and trying.
Hope - I have been here....last week was busy at work getting back from Oklahoma trip.
Things are good. I bought D16 a dog on Friday as her xmas gift that she has so desperately wanted. She was estatic! I brought him home Friday after work as a surprise and she flipped! I was so lucky to find him at the pound. He is a full breed Golden Retriever and he is only a year old. He is so cute! She named him Leo. It has been a blast this weekend.
As for H, he got his cell phone turned back on. Sent D16 a text but she just ignored it. He sent me a text Saturday asking if I have done my xmas shopping. I told him I had only bought the dog. He sends back that he won't be able to buy D16 anything or anyone else since he has no money. I told him "sorry to hear that" and did not engage. I ask him what his son wants for xmas and he said his son didn't know what he wanted then he adds that he didn't even have money to eat the whole weekend and that he had never been in this kind of situation before and that it was pretty scary. I didn't even engage in that either. I just told him I was sorry to hear that and that I was in no better situation either. It's almost like he wanted me to feel sorry and try to fix it for him. Well he got himself into that situation now its time for him to get himself out or why doesn't he get his 21 yr old GF to fix it for him right? I mean what else does he want? It's just so frustrating....
I can't do anything with the D papers. I don't have the money to record the response (it would cost me like $500). It's all about extending it to let time heal everything right? Maybe this is a sign to have patience.
((((((((T2L)))))))))) my thoughts and prayers are with you....you will get through this....you have been so strong and as a result of all this you will be 10x stronger.
i hope one of you posts on my "new" stich...look like a loser -- no one responded. loL
title - losing my sanity
People always want the EASY way out. It's too HARD to stay and try to fix things.
Eventually everyone has to face what they have done. I absolutely believe 100% that at some point along the way your H has to stop and look back. If he doesn't do it now , he will do it in the future. So yes it looks like he has taken the easy road for now.
Up to you to show him what he has given up, but do it with integrity and dignity.
Marisol, great you got your D a pound puppy. Great gift and she could use all that loving a pet will give her.
Sounds like your H is on his pity pot. Poor me,,, no money, no nothing. Definitely looking for sympathy and I am glad you did not give it to him. Notice he had money to get his phone turned back on? Does it also mean he is not going to buy a Christmas present for OW??? You sound more confident. A good thing.
Mof I need to show integrity and especially dignity. I was looking at myself in my H's sunglasses and I did not like what I was seeing with my own reflection. Step back and breathe. I can't DB but will wait it out for about a week and try again. Started my own stich here - losing my sanity -- how appropriate.
T2L...thinking of you and wishing you all my prayers and wishes for tomorrow. Glad you thought ahead and made plans on your anniversary. Did H come over today to see kids? keep us posted.. Hugs...
Mof I need to show integrity and especially dignity.
I think it is one of the things we can control. It is not what happens to us in this life but how we handle it .
{{{{{{{{{{{T2L}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Big hugs and prayers out to you today. I know today is your anniversary and I know it will be a rough one. I am so proud of you with all that you have done so far with your GAL, DBing and Plan A/B. No one has been a better role model for us struggling here. Go with your friends tonight and do not plan on being the designated driver. After a few drinks and being surrounded by friends it will help. We care about you here and wish you the best. Take care friend.
Mof, love your statement "It is not what happens to us in this life but how we handle it", that needs to be my new mantra. Also I started a new stich titled "losing my sanity" stop by there also. Hope all is well with you...
Well Happy Anniversary to me! I have not cried today think I might have done it all yesterday.
I am off to get a hair cut and gray covered LOL. Will check in later.
Howdy Marisol! Thanks for the support{{{{hugs}}}}.
Hope how are you doing? I ran out to grab a bite to eat last night and missed your call.
Think I might take the kids to Disneyland on New Years Eve. I am checking on some cheap tickets through ebay wish y'all could go!
Back in a bit...
T2L glad you checked in. Look fantastic for tonight.
I wish I could go to Disney Land also. New Years day we fly back.
Check Priceline also for cheap tickets. That would be a blast
Hey T2L!!!!!!!! Missed ya!!!!!!!
You will look fabulous tonight!!!!! Have fun and enjoy you deserve it!!!!!!!
I wish I had vacation time to go to Disneyland for New Years! That would be awesome! Don't they have a great fireworks show??
I am hoping next year to take my D16 to New York for New Years to be in times square and watch the ball drop. That would be the first for both of us to see. We could also visit the twin towers memorial and do some window shopping!
My next goal is to plan for her graduation trip. She hasn't decided between Japan or Spain. I'm leaning more towards Spain myself but she is very interested in the asian culture.
I would like to go to Vegas soon. Possibly February....any of you ladies interested? That would be awesome if we all met there! Fun stuff!
Marisol, I will be in NYC on Dec 30 to go see the tree in Rockfeller Center. I love NY and miss it living in the SW now. Let me know if you go and I will tell you where to eat and go. NYC is so much fun.
I was thinking Vegas also, but more the end of January. I actually get 3 free nights. Maybe we can get a party together! Also I started a sitch in infidelity called "losing my sanity" -- I lurk over here every day but I want some opinions on Attys, etc if H decides to ask for D in January. Stop by!
Hello girls,
I'm back, well it looks like this whole crap we are going through doesn't get easier or better for any of us.
I have been praying for all of you, that your h's will hear and see you like they did on your wedding day. When the covenant was made and never to be broken.
I really need somewhere to vent.
I really feel I'm doing the wrong thing here, in that I mean,by coming here and venting cause I've been focusing on my faith, and praying. And It was/is working but then last night something happened that I'm not sure if it can be fixed.
But I know it can because anything in the Lord is not impossible.
But will God touch this with a 10 foot pole. Sex????
I'm horrible at it!
H made 10 steps forward even starting to think there was something to God - h was cured from the flu the other night after thinking God was punishing him and I told him if he thinks that to ask forgiveness and after that H said he was feeling better, symptoms had reversed.
We talked the rest of the night and we decided we were going to work on things - cautiously.
Well we had sex last night, and he was still fatigued so I did the prep and got on top, we were in sync and building, but for some reason I lost sync and couldn't get it back.
He got mad and frustrated.
He told me "that" (sex) will not happen again until "you" figure it out. Me - it's all me, I can't believe that, sex is between two people. He asked me if he had done anything to make me think I need to change the movement, I said he sped up a bit, he's like yes A BIT!
He hurt me, I don't know what to do, or how to fix it. He stood there, I asked what do you want me to say - h said he wanted me to say "I'll work on it".
I need to go back to focusing on God and faith but I'm losing faith, the devil is trying to get to me. I'm not sure God can help me with sex.
I know he can do anything. But how can he work this one in me?
{{{{{T2L}}}}}}}}}}}, how are you and how was your evening. Please check in with us mother hens. You know we are here for you. Any potential contact from H during the day? Hope you were able to find some peace with the day.
Went to Atty yesterday just for consultation. It went pretty well but it made me sad last night. How did we get here? But it is a new day and I can only worry about today and get through these holidays. I have a feeling when I go home for Christmas it will be a H bashing by the family. They are really mad that he has left after bringing us here and leaving the family 2 years ago. Stressing..
All, it takes 2 to tango. I think that your H was having performance problems and put the blame on you. God wants married people to have sex, it is throughout the whole bible about H pleasing their wives and wives pleasing their Hs. Are you going to a MC? There are C and Therapists that work specifically with those types of issues. Your H might not be open to it because it might be more of his problem than yours. He seems to be very passive agressive. Are you still GAL and working on yourself? take care
Friend just sent this it's just for laughs-kinda risky. Will catch up in a bit. Had lots of fun last night and no tears yesterday.....
Twas the night before Christmas, when all throughout OZ
Hoors were guzzling liquor and blowing their schnozz
The phone wasn't ringing, their in-box was bare
All hopes had been dashed. Another lonely year
Married Men and their wives were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of homicide danced in hoors heads;
Hoors in their crotchless undies, vibrator in hand
Settled in for another destitute night in fantasy land
When out on hoor's lawn there arose such a clatter,
Hoor sprang from her bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window she flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.
The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow
Gave the terrifying reality to what was below,
When, what to hoor's bulging eyes should appear,
But a pissed off Betrayed Wife whose mission was clear
With a hunger for vengeance and a wild look in her eye, Wifey roared out a chilling war cry
The hoor shat herself and begged for a pardon just as wifey came crashing through the garden
"Now, hear this you hoor and listen up well, I'm going to get you tonight and send you to hell.
Get your a$s out here and show me your face. I'll get my hands on you, you f-ing disgrace! "
The hoor was crazy scared so she quickly texted Himbo
She waited, she waited and she waited in limbo
Alas there was no word, no rescue from her true love
This is where things went from push to shove
Wifey kicked down the front door and came up the stairs
Her eyes were wild looking like two burning flares
"Where are you you f-ing hoor! I'll get you if I have to kick down every door.
You can't escape and you certainly can't hide.
C'mon biatch, let's take it outside!"
Hoor tried to be quiet but let out a gasp
Wifey heard it and quickly had hoor in her grasp
She dragged the hoor down the stairs by her hair
Then propped her sorry ass up in an old chair
She duct taped her down and out came the gear
Instruments of pain, tools for torture
"So you thought you could steal mine and my children's life?
What you seemed to forget was that I AM THE WIFE!
I am the one he wants and is choosing.
You, f-ing bitch, are the one who is losing.
You thought you could take what wasn't yours.
But now you are the one he abhors.
He never loved you or even cared.
And all those special moments you think you shared?
Well take a good look and see the real truth.
What you had wasn't real, just uncouth.
You fooled yourself year after year.
There wasn't a moment of if he held dear.
No, I'm terribly sorry to say, you were just a free blow job at the end of the day.
He has confessed all and is very remorseful.
All the info he gave me has made me very resourceful.
You are done hoor and you are finished.
Your super luuuurve powers you thought you had - DIMINISHED!
You thought it would be me who was living alone.
Now let me tell you something that will make you groan.
You are unlovable and not worth anyone's while.
Open your eyes hoor, you've been in denial.
You're unwanted, not cared for and not worth a buck.
You'll never have the real deal cuz you're just good for a f**k.
The only reason he was ever with you
was because our marriage became stale, we were sad, we were blue.
He was angry and frustrated and didn't know how to tell.
So he took a detour into your little hell.
And there you were.
Willing and able, to crawl on your knees.... under the table.
You had no conscious, you chose not to see.
Woman to woman you're a travesty!
So open your eyes hoor and have some self respect.
Perhaps if you did you wouldn't always be the reject.
Think about what you participated in.
It's vile, it's immoral and a sin.
Think about the children whose lives you almost destroyed.
The deceit you most skillfully employed.
None of this shall go without payment.
Your day is here it's time for lament.
So hold on hoor while I get my worst instrument of terror."
And then the Betrayed Wife held up a mirror.
LOVED IT...Too bad my H is spending Christmas with OW or itwould be worth sending...teehee.
Glad you survived yesterday. Any word from H
Hey everyone..
T2L - how was yesterday?? I'm sorry and glad that you made it through.. mine is coming up in a month - I will make sure H watches kids that night and go to dinner with friends.. good idea
I will be posting a question on my thread too...
H wants to spend christmas eve and christmas day with "us" ... part of me wants to do this for my D4 as it could be our last Christmas together.. part of me thinks it is too much and he is not worthy of this time with us.. he left it all you know..
I am pretty sure I'm ok with letting him join us for some of the activities - like church and maybe just Christmas morning with kids and then go to a friends house for lunch or something so I don't have to be with him whole day....
thoughts?? maybe go to my thread and respond although I'll check here too.
I am ready and done with all my "talks" and questions.. I will no longer point out all the things he is not doing or doing wrong.. I'm truely going to DBing... some days I'm completely fine being friendly and some days I hate that I'm so "nice" ... but we really have limited contact..
My friend from highschool has been having an affair for a year... Divorce almost final with H, and last month has been having huge guilt, crying and emotions and week after Thanksgiving went to H and asked for a chance to work on marriage... H only new about the A for 6 months but sold home, filed for D right away... she says she still loves the OM and misses him but knows she needed to give her marriage a try or she couldn't live with herself. So there is hope, she hasn't given me some good advise too...
She also wanted to email my H and the email was awesome.... she emailed it yesterday and it was such good stuff.. He hasn't said a thing to me - I can copy and post it if you want to read the thoughts our H's might be feeling... of course this is how she feels now a year later - 6 months after bomb dropped and D almost final - literally one week away...
Her advise is to let the D process start, start acting like you are dating, being friendly and not calling them on all the [censored] they have thrown our way... her H did the crying, begging, but what got her was he started moving on, quit talking and emotions, and seemed DONE with the marriage and was going to be OK without her... he started dating etc.. all of this combined with Thanksgiving, and the D almost final freaked her out...
Now women are more emotional than men so not sure our H's will respond the same but they all wanted out of the marriage so we need to STOP giving them reason to still leave....
OK long post... please go back up and answer my question about Christmas.. how much do I let him particpate? I guess I'm lucky he even wants too spend it with the girls....
Okay guys Im gonna go to mid week service and then check back in a read everything and fill ya in. Nothing new H is still a poop head, LOL.
Back later....
{{{T2L}}}}}}}}} I think I can hear H pooping. He is the biggest poop head ever. Remember South park with the character that was a "turd", well we know where he went -- CA Check in later I hope.
TxMom will go over to your thread. I put one up also "losing my sanity". Want to let you know about atty I consulted with.
TxMom think I found your thread and posted about Christmas. Sounds like you are doing better. After many false starts I am truly trying to stay semi-dark and DB when I do see H.
PLEASE POST your friend's e-mail. Gives us all hope even if D is in process. interesting.
Hi I would like to see a copy of the email.
Wouldn't you love to be in their head for an hour , just to see how they think ?
I'm traveling so the email is on my home computer... please remind me if I forget.... I'm back Friday afternoon
I will post what she wrote I just wish I knew if my H read it and what he is thinking.. I thought he'd mention it to me... maybe I should say that my friend asked for your email ... see if says yeah I got it...
Txmom...no no no. Do not ask if H got it...I am sure he got it and is probably waiting for you to ask (more of the same). Sometimes when we say or show them something we think it will have the same impact on them as it has on us and we can't wait for their opinion. He might have read it and is still processing it or just does not agree with it.
I hope you post it here. thanks for sharing.
TxMom, check in.
I would not ask either. It makes you seem needy. He will be waiting for you to ask. I am sure they get some perverse pleasure out of our inquisitive nature!
Cant wait to read it !
T2L -- how are you...check in with us.
what have you been doing?? I hope you are GAL and continue to work on yourself. Should I take the 2x4 out!
Miss you. These are tough times but we will get through them and not only get through them but THRIVE.
T2L and group, check my sitch,,,
Decided to go route of PI so if H asks for D I will be well prepared and be able to delay the D for awhile also.
Hope all else is well
All,
Well here's my opinion, of course I am not a therapist so its just for opinion sake. I will just be as honest as I can.
Of course you are hurt, that's what he meant to do. He didn't have control for that few minutes since you had BOTH decided to cautiously work on the marriage. That was a joint decision and he had to give up some control and he couldn't handle it and he dumped on you took control. I personally would have jumped off and said yeah this is not satisfying me either.
I know you want your marriage and i want that too but you have to be strong. He is controlling your every move. How much love was shown by what he did to you? Not much.
This is his issue and you need some boundaries in my very humble opinion. I will not lose my integrity and self respect for any one and that's including my H. Please protect yourself.
If you continue allowing the hurt at some point you will no longer love him and even if he does come back you won't want the marriage. Have you read SAA?
I am sure you are an awesome woman, and he truly needs to see what he has but you may have to implement boundaries so that he can feel what he may lose if he doesn't stop the abuse. That comment was abuse in my book.
Have you ever entertained the idea that maybe this isnt about you and that God needs to do some pruning on him and some molding and breaking?
T2L, 2x4...for All but it is REALLY good advice. All I think when you start to be confident and strong, it is overwhelming for H and he needs to "Put you down" to build up his own insecure behavior. Stay strong, continue to work on yourself, GAL and H will have to start making changes within himself. When H mentioned about "working on the M" did that include "no dates, no contact" with OW? Do not let him call all of the shots.
Ok here is the letter from my girlfriend to my H... Names have been changed.. She just went back to her H a week two weeks ago. My H hasn't said anything about this letter he got Tuesday.. read my update thread I made some comments today
Hi Jon,
I had a hard time deciding if I should even email you because what you are going through and what you decide to do is none of my business. I know I don't know you that well, but what I do know is that we are going through something very similar. You are probably at the stage where you think whatever people are telling you doesn't relate to you. That your situation is different. No one understands how you really feel. You might not even want to read this and delete it before you get to the end because you know what you are about to hear is going to be hard to face and think about. I know TxMom very well and knew how happy she was when she met you. Everyone could see what a great match you were and you both seemed truly happy. TxMom was smart to not give into the pressure of age or peers to marry the first person that came along. She wanted to make sure it was real and that she would love you forever. You and TxMom have a great foundation, something that a lot of marriages lack.
The emotions that you are feeling now with this new person is what you felt with TxMom. You can get that back. That new feeling with the affair will eventually fade and you will be faced with so many additional pressures and problems, guilt, jealousy, kid issues, money, and the list goes on and on. I have not talked to one divorced friend that doesn't say it's horrible, hard, and if there's any chance your marriage can be saved to try your hardest. Even ones that are happily remarried (or at least think they are) say in confidence that they regret leaving their marriage for the person they're with now.
Of course you've told OW what you need to be happy and what was missing in your marriage, and I'm sure she is giving it to you with complete effort. The problem is those things that she's providing will satisfy you and make you happy for now, but won't solve the issues that arise after the effort stops and you're left dealing with the same problems and issues that you face in any marriage. You will have the same issues with her and because of the added pressures that come with a divorce, it will potentially lead to another divorce. I've realized a lot of what I went through had to do with realizing what I need to change about myself and how to have good communication. It's so much easier to blame others though. Being blessed with children and a wife who just wants to love you and accept you and your mistakes means so much.
I could go on forever about my situation, but I really wouldn't know where to begin or end. It was just so easy to get caught up in it all. The feelings and emotions felt good. Being wanted so badly by someone else is flattering. My relationship went on for over a year. I really thought he could solve all my problems and that I could be happier with him. I know I truly loved him, but you can love more than one person in a lifetime. Some people are just in love with being in love. We are probably both very passionate people that need excitement, the feelings that the affair brought us. But, what I had to realize it's temporary and it will fade. Is it really worth losing it all to get right back where you started?
When our divorce was about to be final I completely freaked out. I knew my H had moved on, was dating and he knew that he was going to be fine. The thought of him with someone else, my kids having a step mom and so many other thoughts went thought my head. We married who we are with for a reason. I went back to those reasons and realized those out weigh the negatives that are most likely easy to fix. Every relationship and marriage is going to have problems. I figured, why not work on the one I already had that brought me happiness, wonderful kids and a great life to begin with. The thing that you hear over and over about marriage can be better after an affair can actually be true. My H and I have talked more in the past five days and discovered so much about ourselves and each other and what we need to have a happy fulfilling marriage. It can and will only get better.
I am only wanting to tell you this because I wish I would have done this months ago to take away some of the pain I put him through. The saying you don't know what you've got until it's gone hit home with me big time. The thought I really almost lost him devastated me. TxMom won't wait around forever. She has handled this situation with so much pride, dignity, class and complete unconditional love for you. That is hard to come by. It only describes what type of person she is and what you have and what you could potentially lose. I know exactly what you're feeling and what you're going through. You re a good person with a big heart that I know will freak out eventually just like I did. TxMom is a strong person that will be fine and make someone very happy if you choose to move on.
I knew I could never really go through with it because my guilt would never let me move onto another productive relationship. I know you are probably at the stage where you are even questioning your love for TxMom. It's being smothered by new love, flattery, sex, emotions, but I promise it's still there. Can you really just walk away from your marriage not knowing that you did everything possible to save it? Can you really have a good relationship with someone else not knowing that you everything you could? I am so grateful my H even gave me a chance. That chance might not be there for you as time goes on. Just please take some time to remove yourself from your current situation to really think about it all. It's hard to do that if you are around OW all the time with her pressuring you. She has to be Ok with giving you time to process everything. If she's not Ok with that, is she really someone who truly cares about you and even a good person deep down that you could be risking everything for? Just do some soul searching. TxMom and your wonderful children deserve that. If you ever want to talk I would be happy to. I just want the best for you both and would love to help in any way I can.
Wow that's a good peak into the mindset of a walk away. Thanks for sharing. IT would still be rather hard for a WS to even take in much of that information with out rejecting it if they are in the fog though. Even now if someone sent that to my H he would just reject it unfortunately.
Below I am posting a lil bit from another book by Dr. Willard Harley called Buyers, Renters and Free loaders, enjoy.......
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.
Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
Hey T2L, how are you.
Went to see the decorated boat parade. It was nice. Could not help thinking that last year I saw it with H.
Reading your attachment, towards the end I would call H a freeloader. Pretty sad. Why do we still want them?
What have you been up to for the weekend?
Hey there, not much grocery shopping and errands. Hard being out this time of year. Lots of families out today doing the Christmas thing{{{{sigh}}}}, keep moving forward.....Trying not to be so angry, this is new for me. I don't like the anger, its really hard to work through. It truly makes you want to say forget it, but not for the right reasons, only as retaliation. Doing my best to process through it. People warned me about the angry stage, it didn't think i would get it, funny huh. Anyways posting more interesting stuff to go along with the Surviving An Affair book by Willard Harley, It's from a former walk away wife, see below.....
Wayward Fog Babble (things ALL waywards seem to say):
1. I love you but Im not in love with you
2. I have been unhappy in this marriage for a long time
3. The kids will be fine if we get a divorce as long as we remain friends (for their sake)
4. I just dont feel that way about you any more
5. The OP (other person) has nothing to do with the way I feel about you now
6. You are a wonderful person, we just arent meant to be together
7. I am just confused, this has nothing to do with you
8. I am doing the best I can,I just cant decide what I want
9. I need some time/space to sort all of this out
10. I need some time/space to find myself
11. I am so tired of feeling this way!
12. Cant you just accept that it is over?
13. Why are you being nice to me when I do not deserve it?
14. You have never been there for me
15. I am going to file for divorce, I just dont have the money/time/strength, etc right now
16. I am not going to change the way I feel, why dont you move out and file for divorce
17. The children will learn to love the OP like I do
18. I cant help myself
19. Nothing you do will ever make me love you that way again
20. My happiness has to be my number one priority
21. I will DEFINITELY divorce you if you expose to anyone or confront the OP
22. You never listened to me BEFORE now; quit acting like you hear me NOW!
And on and on... The justifications of a WS can be mind-boggling! Wayward fog babble can be EXTREMELY convincing, though, especially to the BS. The reason for this is because the WS ABSOLUTELY believes what they are saying at the time. The BS has to keep in mind, though, that the justifications are so great for a WS because it is a defense mechanism to WARD OFF the feelings of guilt and shame that they SHOULD feel. Guilt and shame KILL the fantasies of a WS, and are replaced with unfounded excuses.
From the utterly ridiculous such as Mrs. W (to her husband) You use Grandma Toothpaste! to the ones that are a complete re-write of history, to the ones that are interlaced with TRUTH about the state of the M pre-A. Those are the ones that HURT the most, but you must try to turn the HURT into INTEL and therefore use it as a WEAPON against the A.
Example: "You never listened to me (noticed me,etc) before the A, why should I believe youll listen to me now?" This cuts deep as you realize that the communication (or intimacy, etc) WAS lacking in the M pre-A. Ok..BUT, you must then prove your WILLINGNESS TO CHANGE in the face of devastation. The WS is giving you WEAPONS to use against him/her in your WAR against the A. So, ask yourself- if their complaints sound ridiculous, they probably ARE…but if what they just said rings true Pre-A, think about it and figure out what TRUTH there is in it and then CHANGE that part of yourself. Obviously the WS is not going to believe the changes at first, (which they WILL tell you-IGNORE them) and they will not reciprocate, but that is NOT the reason you are changing. You are making yourself a better person for:
1.) When they come back to the M, OR
2.) Yourself as you move forward on your own, and in future relationships.
WS's re-write histor.. "There was no romance or passion between us throughout our WHOLE marriage." Obviously this is/was fog babble. It felt true to me then because I had allowed another man to enter my life and fill my ENs to the point that I felt I was in love with him and that he was my "soul mate." This statement/belief obviously hurt my BH very deeply. But as soon as I removed the OM and got through the fog, I realized of course, that not only was it an untrue assessment, but that those feelings could be recaptured for us by following the ten basic concepts of a happy marriage by Dr. Harley.
Here's another part to what I posted about the minds of Waywards, it was written by a former Betraying Spouse.....
Inside the Wayward Mind, part 2:
"Your WS is like a drug addict or falling down drunk" analogy
You will hear many people say on this forum that your WS is like a drug addict or falling-down drunk. The reason for this is because trying to reason with a falling down drunk is futile, draining and just plain ridiculous--same with a fogged-out WS. Ask yourself "would I stand in the face of a be-bopping crack addict dying for their next fix and try to talk sense with them?" OF COURSE NOT!!! The spouse you once knew inside and out, who was your best friend, and who loved you with all of their heart and soul is temporarily GONE. They have been replaced with a person who has all the "logic" of a falling-down drunk.
The first step is to take away their keys, so they can’t "drive" or hurt any innocent victims (like your children). But you do not CONFRONT and DEMAND things of an addict, nor do you reason with them. Face to face with a drunk, you hold up the right hand with something to distract them (ooooo, PRETTY) and then with the left hand you gently take the keys out of their hand. As soon as the distraction wears off, you say (bright and cheerily) "Hey, lets go for a drive and go as FAST AS WE CAN!! Wont that be fun-come on!" Of course your intent is NOT to drive as fast as you can, but by the time they are strapped into the passenger seat and you are BEHIND THE WHEEL AND IN CONTROL of the car, they dont remember how they even got there. THIS IS HOW YOU DEAL WITH A WAYWARD---STRATEGY, NOT LOGIC!
The way you would handle an addict in order to actually begin to HEAL them would be to take away their drug. We ALL know how well that goes over in the beginning, right? Anger doesnt even begin to cover it…that is where EXPOSURE comes in with WSs. It is your first line of defense and should hit them much like an INTERVENTION with a drug addict. It must be NUCLEAR! Tell the other person’s spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend, your parents, WS's parents, possibly any close friends, possibly the director of HR at their workplace if the A is happening with someone there-- ALL AT ONCE. This way, your WS cannot try to "spin" things that make you look like a fool or a crazy person (and OH YES THEY WILL). You must not warn them it is coming; you must not listen to them when they say "I will DIVORCE you if you tell anyone!!" They ALL say this!! Your M will survive their anger-- it will not survive a continuing A.
But in the end, you can only control yourself. Think about it this way- you can do an intervention with a drug addict, you can hold their hand while they go through treatment and withdrawal, you can tell them you love them even when they turn into a monster and scream filth at you over and over when in the throes of withdrawal, etc. But once they come out on the other side, you cannot control them. Nor are you really in control as to whether they stay in rehab or (with infidelity) maintain no contact with the OP. It is ultimately up to them, and if they choose to continue being destructive, you must then walk away no matter how much you love them (Plan B).
This is just to illustrate HOW the wayward mind thinks and HOW to deal with them to prevent as much damage to yourself and your children as possible.
Okay last part from a former betraying Spouse of inside a mind of a wayward....
Inside the Wayward Mind, part 3:
The distorted and hopefully TEMPORARY "logic" of the wayward...
In an attempt to divert the guilt and shame, and avoid all the hard work that a wayward intrinsically knows they will be faced with upon accepting the reality of what they have done, they look at the person they are married to as a scapegoat. They re-write history from before the A and convince themselves (mostly subconsciously, although some do it consciously) that the M was doomed from either the beginning, or the subsequent years following their wedding day. This is actually easy to do, because ALL M's have their problems. Everyone has flaws, and the wayward focuses on the faults of the betrayed to justify the way they are currently feeling and for the A itself.
The other aspect is the OP. The wayward sees them as their "soul mate" and tells themselves that "everyone deserves to be happy." Therefore, no matter how wrong they know the A is deep down inside, they go with the new age vibe that you must "follow your feelings." They see D all around them and convince themselves that it is the norm. They see other children who have been through a D and say "They are doing just fine," even though those children probably are NOT doing just fine. (Except in the cases where the married home was abusive or otherwise unsafe, etc. In those cases, anyone is better off getting themselves and their children away from an abuser, and with counseling the children may end up OK.)
The wayward can convince themselves of this due to the fact that they are observing from a distance. They do not actively seek to dig deeper and discover that the children of D, especially ones with infidelity as the cause, have an extremely difficult time with anxiety, guilt (why weren't we enough), and as MelodyLane talks about, understanding right from wrong if they are not told the truth about the D. They internalize their pain most of the time, so it is difficult to see what they are going through. The wayward truly believes that "if the children know they are loved by both parents, and my BS and I get along for the children's sake, they will be just fine." To dig deeper for the truth about the affect of D on children would be to vaporize their fantasy world in a very big way. WSs are terrible parents, even if they were great parents before the A.
It is a very scary state of mind for everyone involved. Anything the BS does to try to convince the wayward that what they are doing is wrong is met with hostility and the attitude that the BS is trying to "punish" them for their wrongdoings.
Unfortunately, for most WSs, THAT is the state of existence they remain in, even if the M is salvaged to the point of somewhat peaceful co-existence. It is then the feeling of the wayward that "I have done everything I can...I have stopped the A, I have said I am sorry a thousand times, I have placated you with flowers and cards, and now you just need to be a strong enough person to get over it!" If the BS does not buy into this theory (like W2S) then there is an extended period of time where the WS and BS go round and round in circles, with the BS knowing they deserve more than to be placated, and the WS viewing any attempt at real recovery (talking about the A in full detail, living their lives as an open book, etc) as punishment or as their BS being insecure or needy. Until the WS fully realizes the extent of their damage and faces their greatest moment of selfishness and devastation to their marriage partner, this will be the continued state of existence.
If and when the WS finally comes to the place where they can humble themselves and seek guidance as to the extent of their damage, and change their perspective about the A and the M, they can expect a period of depression. It is truly devastating to honestly realize what I have done (switching to first person to speak from experience). The BS can actually benefit from this, because it offers a time of re-building the love they have for each other. The BS can finally SEE and ACTUALIZE the remorse of the wayward and seek to comfort them, even as they heal themselves. Once this epiphany is achieved, the wayward will be willing and eager to learn all they can of how to comfort their BS and therefore learn and grow together. They can re-connect on a deeply emotional level, fill each other's ENs joyfully and thus create a loving environment where true romantic love can blossom.
An A is never a "good" thing in an M, obviously, but it can be a huge turning point where the couple can grow and be even deeper in love with each other having weathered the storm of the A. They will both realize that everyone makes mistakes, but it is not our mistakes that define us, it is how we cope and make amends for those mistakes that truly make us who we are. The couple then feels pride in the fact that they have recovered successfully from one of the most heart-wrenching travesties known to man.
T2L, wow, so true especially para 2 of the part 3. I remember my H saying in the MC session "look there is lots of M that break up after 30 years, it is common" and M was NEVER good babble babble.
So you hit the angry stage, I hit that one quick! Tough to work that through. I find that I am grinding my teeth in my sleep. grrrrr. Will have to catch up. Found a way to expose to OW sister.
I will post over in losing my sanity.
We will survive and thrive in the end.
Wow... I've heard almost everything on that list from my W!
It is truly scary how precise the "script" is.
I've gotten every one of these, yet she denies now that there is even an EA!
1. I love you but Im not in love with you
2. I have been unhappy in this marriage for a long time
3. The kids will be fine if we get a divorce as long as we remain friends (for their sake)
4. I just dont feel that way about you any more
5. The OP (other person) has nothing to do with the way I feel about you now
6. You are a wonderful person, we just arent meant to be together
7. I am just confused, this has nothing to do with you [I only got this one when she was ostensibly trying; she isn't confused any more, she knows D is only way]
8. I am doing the best I can,I just cant decide what I want
9. I need some time/space to sort all of this out [Maybe before, but now she's sure]
10. I need some time/space to find myself [Maybe before, but now she's sure]
11. I am so tired of feeling this way!
12. Cant you just accept that it is over?
13. Why are you being nice to me when I do not deserve it?
14. [Before we were married, you were always there for me; since then] You have never been there for me
15. I am going to file for divorce, I just dont have the money/time/strength, etc right now
16. [More or less...] I am not going to change the way I feel, why dont you move out and file for divorce
17. The children will learn to love the OP like I do
18. I cant help myself
19. Nothing you do will ever make me love you that way again
20. My happiness has to be my number one priority
21. I will DEFINITELY divorce you if you expose to anyone or confront the OP22. You never listened to me BEFORE now; quit acting like you hear me NOW!
This is so disheartening...
-AlexEN
The ones that have just slayed me are:
1. I'm doing the best I can
2. This has nothing to do with the OW
3. You aren't losing me - I'll always know where you are
4. Maybe in 2 years we can re-marry, people do it all the time
And, ready?, When I pressed him on what fundamental things he was talking about when he said we were different?
Drum roll please........ 5.You don't like to watch as much TV as I do
So SF, if you want to become a "couch potato" you could win your H back. Unbelievable the things they say...
Good to talk T2L. Today is another tough one. Don't want to take up your stich but H switched his banking acct. to another one and did not tell me and now since our bank is out of state I cannot transfer the money into ours to pay small things like the mortgage, taxes etc. What a dumbo...I will give full details on "losing my sanity" which I have.
Hi, I saw this in newcomers posted on a site. I thought it was very good.
To let go does not mean to stop caring,
it means I can't do it for someone else.
To let go is not to cut myself off,
it's the realization I can't control another.
To let go is not to enable,
but allow learning from natural consequences.
To let go is to admit powerlessness, which means
the outcome is not in my hands.
To let go is not to try to change or blame another,
it's to make the most of myself.
To let go is not to care for,
but to care about.
To let go is not to fix,
but to be supportive.
To let go is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.
To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their destinies.
To let go is not to be protective,
it's to permit another to face reality.
To let go is not to deny,
but to accept.
To let go is not to nag, scold or argue,
but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires,
but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
To let go is not to criticize or regulate anybody,
but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To let go is not to regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.
To let go is to fear less and love more
Alen,
I got most of this information from a book highly recommend that is geared solely for Adultery. Consider getting it. Its called Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley. It would give you a very good game plan.
Silver,
Sounds lame but it comes from Fog land and is all fog babble. I'll try to get some info posted about fog babble and things you can say in response. Have you read Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley in addition to DR? Its a great companion book.
T2L,
Silver,
Sounds lame but it comes from Fog land and is all fog babble. I'll try to get some info posted about fog babble and things you can say in response. Have you read Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley in addition to DR? Its a great companion book.
Your thoughts on "things to say in response" would be a great post for Silver (and me
)
Thanks,
-AlexEN
T2L, stop by my sitch, worried H is getting ready to ask for D. Hiding accts. -- another sign.
Okay here is the reverse babble stuff I got for you. Its from a person named Orchid(pen name for forum) on Marriagebuilders.com a forum for Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley. I am in Plan B and on the forum under infidelity with the same name Trying2live. Here's the reverse babble stuff.......
WS-Walkaway Spouse
RS: Betrayed Spouse
Examples of reverse babble: by Orchid
WS: I need my own space.
Reverse babble (RB): Yes you do.
WS: I love you but I am not in love with you.
RB: Yes, me too.
WS: You need to move on.
RB: Yes I do. Here is a list of what I need.
1. All bills paid
2. New home, new furniture, etc.
3. New car
4. All Ens met for entire family
5. Children's education all paid for
6. Guaranteed alimony for life
7. Guarantee that you will never be difficult
to deal with.
8. WS meet with Steve/Jennifer or MC and
then show family how WS will keep the
family safe from any harm.
9. WS guarantee he/she will be there to
support family through good times and bad
10. WS never demand anything other than what
the family requests.
11. WS not put demands on family or stress them
out in any way shape or form.
Please share some of the comments you have received and 'we' may be able to give a 'sample' RB response or 2.
Part of reverse babble is to agree, then present something while the WS may be in a state of confusion or wonderment (shocked or confused at your being agreeable). Get in your point and them exit ASAP. Don't say too much. Sometimes I used to nod yes and say no or visa versa. Sounds silly? Well my H was sooo much in the fog, he would just shake his head and walk away. About 2 hours to 2 weeks later I would get a response.
I learned not to take his babble to heart. Eventually I learned to put back some of his responsibility on him.
example:
WS: Go get the D. I don't want to be married to you anymore.
RB: Me too. Go get the D.
WS: Why won't you talk to me? (I was in plan B). Don't you love me?
RB: Hm.... I don't know. Let me get back to you on that.
WS: Where is all the $$ I gave you?
RB: I don't know.
WS: Do you want me to come back?
RB: I don't know.
WS: You are so fat, if you lose weight I will come home.
RB: I do have some weight to lose but when I do, I am not sure if I would still want you to come home.
WS: Be a real human.
RB: I am. I have been wondering about you.
WS: You cant come over to my house without permission.
NOTE: This is not reverse babble this is a challenge. Do NOT respond to this. Just nod.
WS: I cant trust you.
RB: Yes, I can't trust you.
WS: You ruined my life.
RB: Yes, you did ruin our lives.
WS: You ruined your life.
RB: Yes, you did ruin our lives.
NOTE how this is the same response.
WS: Your dad had to get you a job, and you have an mba.
RB: Yes he did and it is a good one. He certainly made a good choice. I'll have to tell him thanks. Thanks for reminding me.
WS:I love you. I dont know why I love you, I just do.
RB: You are right, I don't know why I love you also.
WS: She is just a friend (ow number 2)
RB: Wow, with friends like that, why are you out there making enemies? I did give this answer.
WS: I was plan ning on leaving way before the A...
RB: Why didn't you?
WS: I told you I was leaving you for a year.
RB: Leaving for? or Me or your other W?
WS: I never want to live with you again.
RB: Right now, I can see why you would not want to live with caring people anymore.
WS: We can stay married and live apart.
RB: Ok, right after you can show me how to sleep in 2 beds in 2 different homes at the same time. Similar incident, I gave the above response.
WS: This is for the good of the kids.
RB: You certainly are entitled to your opinion. When the children are older, I will share your words of stupidity with them. It will hurt but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. This one happened to me
WS: Just move on with your life.
RB: I am.
WS: You are crazy.
RB: ...and you have been a good teacher.
WS: I might go to counseling if you start to act normal.
RB: I already have. When is your appointment?
WS: It was never the same with ow as you.
RB: I am glad to hear that.
WS: Where did you get those shoes?
NOTE: This is NOT babble. Just answer his question. Don't act like he said it with sarcasism.
WS: I can never live in our house again, there are too many bad memories.
RB: Good idea. When will you be able to get us another home? This one happened to me
WS: Do you know how easy you made it for me to leave!
RB: Yes you did.
WS: We were just friends but now it's much more than that.
RB: Your knack for picking trashy friends is getting better!
WS: I just do not think I can do this anymore. As much as it hurts me as well, I do not think I have it in me to fight.
BS: Me too. Just can't do this and losing the will to fight.
"What part of I don't want to be married to you don't you understand?"
"I agree. Wanting to be married and being married are not the same."
"I don't want to be with you anymore, I want a divorce."
"I agree. Not getting what you think you want can make you want it more."
what part of i dont want to be married to you dont you get/
BS: The when part.
ws: huh?
BS: You know, when....when did you not want t/b married to me?
I don't want to be with you anymore, I want a divorce
BS: You're right, I don't want to be with you 2. When R U going to get it?
Hi everyone! How is everyone doing?? T2L? Hope??
I have just been reading posts....it has been four months now...xmas is next week...I backslid and asked H to come over with his son on xmas day for dinner. He said thanks for the invite but that he already had plans at his house that day and said maybe he could see D16 after xmas but that he did not have a gift for her because he is broke.
Unbelievable.....
So, I am pretty bummed about it. I'm not looking forward to next week. I have not even started shopping for presents. I had some unexpected expenses these past few weeks so money will be short to buy stuff. I have to wait until this Friday to do anything.
When does this stupid fog lift??? When do they wake up??
The divorce papers that he filed will be dismissed Jan. 1st because he did not serve me properly and he doesn't have the money to pay for a process server. His comment was "guess I will be married to you for a long time?"
I keep telling myself to wait until the 6 month mark which will be in February. Basically that is how long the first affair lasted. Not sure about this one......I think the OW is getting tired of all the financial problems he has. We will see....
I started my dance class though! It has been fun. I will be going to the school's holiday party tomorrow.
Just breathe.......
Marisol! we will survive the holidays and thrive in the end.
Can't believe that H has no money. Your right the Ow won't put up with that for long. My H is still spending money like water and getting into huge credit card debt. Did not stop him from taking her to San Antonio last weekend and spending $300 dollars for a hotel. Unbelievable.
How long does the fog babble lift? I don't know but we hope sooner than later.
Glad you are still DBing. Dancing and parties! you go girl.
Hey Marisol,
I am checking back here a few times a week but not daily as much as I did. Hope3343 has found me on Marriage Builders forum for SAA. I am Trying2Live on the SAA forum. Hope3343 is there too posting her story. Its under the infidelity section, general questions. Hope3343 kept the same name as well.
T2L - we miss you here! Where are your words of wisdom???
Hi Marisol, I know T2L is very active over in marriagebuilders site. I go over there but let me warn you now -- they are very agressive. I got reamed over there for not turning in my H and Ow at work which is true but man I got beat up!
I told them I am not doing anything till I come back from visiting my family.
How are you doing?
Hey guys!
Sorry, I've been gone. How are you all doing and dealing with Christmas? Update me y'all!
Not much new here, Plan B darkness of SAA 5 weeks strong. I have made no breaches in it. I dislike it, but feel really its necessary. Ya know there is a humbling that needs to happen in my H. I think the affair is only maybe 50-60 percent of it at this point. Now I think pride really will be what does our marriage in.
I do love the approach of SAA in that your not just waiting around for things to happen. Its much more proactive and comprehensive in approach as far as adultery is concerned. I do love DR tho in its approach of GAL'ing and 180 which I think is also very important while I am doing SAA.
Anyways whats new with everyone?
Hey T2L, read up on "Mr tool time". does it ever end. Stay strong. I am packing to leave. Can't wait to get out of here. Especially after today.
I wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. We fly back on 1/1 getting in at night.
Sortva dreading the New Year but need to take some kind of action. In talking with H I could tell he has spoken to a L. Think he will get the ball rolling soon. I have taken some measures to protect myself financially. He has now hit his savings plan. Going through money like there is no tomorrow -- there might be the way he is going.
I know you and the kids will do fine. I know once I get there that it will be good. Just so stressed right now.
God bless and Merry Christmas. take care
Hope Im really glad you are able to go away. Its going to be nice. Try not to think to much, there's not much more they can do that they haven't at this point ya know. But I am glad that you are protecting yourself financially. Any news from PI?
Try and really relax and enjoy your family. I heard someone tell me that going through this crap takes 5 years off our lives! Can you believe that?!?!
So try still stay active go for walks, find a yoga class and have fun.
Keep in touch, if you are able.
Hey you, still up. Just sent an exposure letter to OW's sister. I am getting brave. Said I know you can't do anything but wanted to let you know what about our family. Said they both knew what they were doing was wrong from both a work perspective and his family. Said they had no respects for themselves. I also told her that Paul had drinking problems and heard that OW had them also.
Won't answer the phone for the next week!
I will enjoy the family and not worry about this crap till after the New Year. I will find a yoga class. If this ages us five years I am in deep doo. Can't afford 5 years at this point of my life! lol
I will give you a call at some point. Keep your family close. take care and God bless.
Hi ladies!
I am in the 4th month now. Still going back and forth with saving our marriage or letting go.
I started a thread here about exposing him or not. He sent me some pretty explicit pics on my cell last week and I wanted some feedback on whether or not to send them to OW. I got some response but not as much as I had hoped. Some said expose some said to just walk away. I have not done anything because I wanted to wait until after the D petition is dismissed on 1/1.
I also found out that he got in contact with his first affair partner. So basically he is talking with the first OW, me, and has the second OW believing he is totally in love with her. It is just sickening....it wasn't until I found out he was talking with the first OW that I realized my H truly has a serious problem. I don't know if it is mental or emotional but he needs help for what he is doing.
Part of me wants so badly to expose and send those pics to the second OW not only so she can taste what it feels like but also for him to just stop this behavior. I can't say that it will and it may end all contact with me if I do but he truly has to stop using women like this. Life is not a game and you cannot be abusing people's feelings the way he is. I am sure the first OW thinks she has a chance with him now that he has left me. Then the second OW thinks he is all hers and then he sends me those text msgs wanting me to believe he is still interested in me. It is just plain wrong.
Every day I just pray that God will show me the way. That God will lead me down the right path and that this pain will end.
Taking 5 yrs off my life is not good! But I do believe the only way it does is if we let it.
T2L I am on my third private lesson for salsa dancing! It's so much fun!
Hope I wish you and your family a happy Christmas. Surrounding yourself with your family is wonderful. It will make you feel so much better. I know spending Thanksgiving with family was awesome. As for Christmas, it will be hard for us but we will get through it.
Marisol,
Well that's pretty tricky I mean, Its really your call. I mean a few things can happen. 1 they may not believe you or 2 they may not care. I mean I would love to expose to their partners. Are the OW 1 and 2 married?
I wish you could do a really good Plan A or maybe 2-3weeks and then a complete dark Plan B from SAA. I think you really do need some distance right now as it does seem he has some internal things going on, but it always makes the distance better if a Plan A is done first. Have you read SAA? Have you thought about registering on the SAA forum? I am here and there, so is hope.
I do think you have a better chance of being proactive than just kinda waiting it out. Even in Dr. Dobsons Love Must Be Tough, he said in all his experience only those who took a hard stand had any chance of reconciling and that most of the individuals that just appeased the affair lost their marriages in the end.
Consider SAA and keep 180'ing and GAL'ing! We'll have to salsa some day!
That is so awesome that you love salsa lessons I told you it was a hoot and a great GAL activity too.
Here's a little tidbit from a poster on the SAA forum his name is MR. Wonderings....enjoy......
Wayward Spouses ALWAYS affair down. They NEED someone beneath them, who will admire them and give them feigned respect. Your husband is not seeking out the younger, better looking woman, he is taking whatever opportunity presents itself and meets his needs for sex, admiration, and boosts his self-esteem. SHE IS NOT SPECIAL. If she happens to be younger and pretty that is just the luck of the draw and a RARITY...most of the time it IS NOT the case. After reading here you will discover that the OW could have been anyone and your husband's choice of OW was not in any way an indication or indictment of you as a beautiful, attractive, desirable, intelligent, mature, moral, loyal, spiritual woman, wife and mother. OW is, I guarantee, no match for you.
Think of it this way, your husband is behaving low and dirty. Thus it necessarily takes a pretty low class woman to admire him at this point ... DO NOT allow this trash to rock your self confidence. You may or may not have let yourself go...but you can get it back and be the classy, beautiful, respectful, upstanding, Grade A woman you always were whereas the Other Woman WILL ALWAYS remain trash.
Good post T2L..
I've been so busy and only posting on my thread... I've been doing fairly good last few weeks until this week... with Christmas and all.. My H is spending tomorrow night and Christmas with me and the girls... sometimes I wonder why am i letting him do this.... but I have also learned to be cold gets me no where... I think this will be the last of letting him hang out with me and girls as a family... I will try my best to suck it up and play nice and charming .... let him wonder why he is leaving again.
I need to revisit SSA and tough love... so hard to know what really is best.. doesn't God already have our future figured out no matter what efforts we put forth? Is it really going to make a difference? Only thing in my situation I agree with is to NOT have discussions out of anger, emotions, etc.. conversation never goes well..... playing neutral or friendly has worked best for me and my H is more inclined to open up.
hang in there everyone.....
Just checking in hope you all had a good Christmas. Did you get to read last post on fog babble? IT has some great responses to give the walkaway.
I'm back one question based on T2L last post "Here's a little tidbit from a poster on the SAA forum his name is MR. Wonderings....enjoy......
Wayward Spouses ALWAYS affair down"
Is it an affair if the affair has ended and now they are looking for someone else (possibly found someone through a dating service)?
Thanks
Hi All, {{{hugs}}}} how is everything going? My sitch seems to be getting worse. How are you holding up?
As for your question "is it an affair if they are looking for someone new"
Absolutely. Any "dating" while being married constitutes as an affair, no matter how they make it seem. If you are still legally married then yes and of course whoever it is your H is "trading down"
T2L I have a personal question for you can you email me -
Thanks
Hey everyone.. I've been off DB for awhile or only on a little... haven't had time to catch up.
T2L - any updates...???
Hi Txmom, T2L has mostly been posting in Marriage builders. I am there also. Same names. T2L is still in Plan B -- look at her link over there.