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Posted By: Sugar and Spice Hanging in there.... - 02/12/08 07:53 PM
My H of 13 years, been together 20 with 2 kids S-12 & D-6 admitted to me on Dec. 3, 2007 that he had been having a text "friendship" with someone, but it wasn't sexual. Well after a totally bogus counseling session and many teary conversations and a Christmas night from hell (he said they weren't talking anymore and she called him and MAJOR drama ensued...my sons b-day is 12/26) I found out that it is sexual and that he has feelings for her. We had to go back to the counselor and tell her that the first session was pretty much total BS and he moved out that night. He now lives with his mom and is pursuing his relationship with OW, but keeping me around too. He says that he is confused and needs to figure out what he feels for her, he doesn't know if its love or an addiction.... Anyway, upon the advice of our marriage counselor, we both got into individual counseling, he of course waited over a month to actually do so, but now is gung-ho to find "himself." He sends conflicting messages, he tells me that he loves me and doesn't want to lose me, don't give up on me, let me do my counseling so I can come back and be 100% and then also tells me how much he likes the OW, that he has feelings for her and he's not sure if its love, but what else could it be? How its fun with her and she's nice, like I care. Saturday night I melted down and told him that I was happy for him and that he needed to just go and be happy, that obviously he wants to be with her, as that is where he puts all of his energy and he again said, don't give up on me, don't give up on our family etc... Last night I told him I needed some space and he said he wouldn't call me, and so far it’s been 3 times today. I feel like I owe it to my kids and myself to see what changes counseling will bring him, but I also need to detach because I know way too much about his activities and it just hurts so damn much. I know he is a gambling addict and he has even said more than once that he doesn't know if he is infatuated with OW or if she is an addiction and I know where my vote is cast, but I can't do it for him. I want it to work, I love him with all my heart, but the pain is just almost too much to bear. I see my counselor on Thursday, Valentines Day (HA!) and I'm going to ask her for coping skills, but if anyone out there has any suggestions I would love to hear them. The OW is 7 years younger than us and has a 12 year old daughter, whose father is dead. OW lives with her parents and doesn't really seem to have a lot of responsibility. She is bound and determined that she wants my husband and in the 4 months they have been seeing each other he had loaned her the $$ to get her car refinanced and also lent her money for other things, which is totally out of character for him. I think she may think she has found a sugar-daddy, cash cow and he has even made the same remark, but yet continues to pursue her... This is so hard!
Posted By: Starshyne Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/12/08 08:12 PM
Wow! Your H sounds a LOT like mine. Everything from saying he still loves me and isn't sure if it is an addiction to him "loaning" her money (I am sure he isn't seeing that money again) to help with her car. She has 2 young girls and lives with her mom. My H is currently back home, but isn't totally sure what he wants and says he is confused. It is so hard to cope. I too have an appointment with a therapist on Valentines Day to find out what I can do to get my self esteem back. How I can handle everything. I don't know what to tell you, but just keep being as strong as you can. Don't beg or plead with him.

Sara
Posted By: Heartbroken Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/12/08 08:35 PM
Hello,

So sad you are here - but I would not have gotten thru my sitch if did not have the support of all the wonderful people out here.

First - he is not telling you goodbye and up and filing - that is good. He sounds confused and he could waffle for some time. The thing that worries me is your finances!! If OW continues she will get more and more out of him. The A's are true addictions and they cannot get over the OP until the OP has been out of their lives for some time --weeks if not months. Hell my H was sucked in by his OW three times even though she was not good for him - he had major issues with her and yet he still took her calls - EVEN after moving back home. It takes them a long time to 'see the light' - if they ever do - sometimes they don't get it until it is too late (just ask Hope11 and Lovely olive is going through it right now).

First you sound like you are detaching fairly well despite your short timeline - took me a LONG time to get this. Do a search on detachment - there are some great postings on this.

Second figure out your finances - he should not be giving funds to OW - or at a minimun document it all. If it goes to D - I think a lot of this can be recouped by you.

Read read read the sitch's out here - that is where I learned a lot. There are diff viewpoints on how you should move - see Choceyes (one extreme) to less aggressive. It all depends on your H and how he will react. Had I been so confrontational with my H - he would have been GONE in a flash. He said what worked for him was I always took the high road, improved myself (and he saw those improvements), went on vac with the kids and without him (this hurt him big time) and basically started moving on without him GAL alot!!! This did not happen overnight - Aug 9th was our 1 yr anniv on our 'how he felt we needed a D talk'. It took me until the next June to figure out true detachment!!! Learn from out mistakes out here!!!!

I got my FIRST ILY on Xmas day - so it took 16 mos or so to hear those words. We did MC, IC and finally Retrouvaille - this helped him the most but the OW was really not a factor by this point. Though she did call him a little even then (the skank)LOL.

Detaching is good - it helps that he is not at home so this is good for you. I would track how much time he spends with the kids too... Don't let him move back home until he is COMPLETELY done with OW and truly wants to work on your M.

Good luck and hang in there I see a lot of little positives in your sitch...

HB
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/12/08 08:55 PM
Heartbroken, thanks for the advice and kind words.

He keeps saying that he will always take care of us and has so far. He is willing to continue to make my house payment so the kids and I can stay where we are, but it makes me wonder if he does end up with her how long that will last.

My dad is an attorney, so I'm willing to play hard ball if I have to, I just really don't want to.

I try to see the positives, and I sound WAY more detached than I am. He sucks me back in every time and since we have basically grown up together we are best friends so we have had some highly inappropriate conversations regarding their relationship. He seems very confused and I want to believe it, but I don't want to end up being a fool, for very much longer.

I think he is really committed to his counseling, but he goes back and forth everyday about how he feels about OW. One day he has feelings and how could they be anything other than love and the next day, she is a friend, then its maybe he has feelings because she is the first person he has slept with, etc... too much information!!!

I have already told him and he has agreed that until he gets his head together, him coming home is not even a question. I haven't heard anything I need to hear to make that happen and the first thing he has to do is get rid of her. He says he won't come back until he is sure that "we" are what he wants and then it'll be 100%. So I will just have to see.

It sounds like you have been through quite a lot and are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and I'm so glad for you.

Thanks again and Starshyne thanks for your words too. I will not beg or plead, the time for that is long past and keep your appointment. The best thing you can do is to do for yourself right now. I'm trying to focus on me (have lost 30 lbs. in 2 months...lovin' the stress diet) and my kids. I go to the gym now almost everyday at lunch, I go out on the weekends whether I want to or not and try to get through each day the best way I can. Remember, this is not about you...its about them and their short-comings.
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Hanging in there.... *DELETED* - 02/12/08 11:02 PM
Post deleted by sgctxok
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/13/08 12:08 AM
Until Sunday, he has been operating under the delusion that no one knew besides me. I have had to clue him into the fact that not only does she know, his kids know too. My S is furious and I need to get him into counseling. My D is to young to really know anything, but she came in the other day and I asked where her dad was and she rolls her eyes and says, "Hes on the phone...with his friend!", pretty sarcastically, so I'm guessing she suspects something is wrong with that "friendship."

Isn't that special? He is so damn oblivious to everything...its sad really. Our MC told him that in the end it will be our children that pick up the tab for this situation and because he is "confused" he refuses to see what a toll its taking on them. So sad.

His mother has tried to talk to him, but he shuts her out and she has MAJOR guilt about the way she has treated him for most of his life, so I think the chance to play "Mommy" and score some points is a little to tempting for her. She was 14 when she had him and pretty much was either not there or a total raving sea hag when she was. Lots of physical and emotional abuse, so I think she is trying to be the "good guy."
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/13/08 12:42 AM
Yes, please get your children into C, especially your son.

When my H was your son's age, his parents were going through the same thing (infidelity, separation, etc), and H told me just how angry he was with his father all the time (still is to this day), and at times, he was even angrier with his mom for not standing up for herself. I think my H lost a lot of respect for his mom while growing up, and it showed. Still does every now and then. He realizes this and is now trying to be kinder and more respectful towards her.

H's sister was about the same age as your D, too. She has depression issues as well as my H, and she has just started using ADs.

Take care of yourself and your children.
Posted By: sgctxok Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/13/08 08:21 AM
Heartbroken has given you excellent advice. Hang in there.
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/13/08 02:48 PM
I second sgctxok, Heartbroken is full of it...good advice, that is. MWAH HB!!! \:\)

Take care of yourself. You are in a very good spot here. Things can turn around. Have you read "Not Just Friends"? Along with DB/DR and "Surviving Infidelity", its helpful.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/15/08 10:47 PM
Time for an update....
Well my H showed up the day before Valentine's Day and gave us our cards and my D6 each a wood carved rose. He kept telling us that only hig "girls" got one of those and I just wanted to puke! We gave him his stuff and then he left...so shocked.

I get a phone call at 12:30am and He tells me, "Happy Valentine's Day" and then launches into telling me how he lost $1,600.00 at the card room and how he is a gambling addict and he needs to go to rehab, et... Then he starts in about OW and how they aren't good for each other (she likes to gamble too, I'm pretty sure thats how they met) and that he thinks he will be coming home soon, blah, blah, blah. I have learned that the light of day changes everything and in this case it is no different.

Valentine's Day he calls while I'm on my way to IC and tells me that he doesn't think he will be over that night, like its going to come as some big shock to me...you have a girlfriend! I told him that I didn't expect him to as I'm sure he had other obligations and he acted like he had no idea what I was talking about, moron. I told him not everyone thought Valentine's Day was "just another day" and that I would have my S12 at practice.

He called us on our way to practice and told me he was leaving the card room and to call him and let him know how practice went. So stupid me does and he ignores my calls and the text I sent. I told him not to ask us to call if he had no intention of answering. He didn't call the kids to say goodnight (a pattern he developed when he worked out of town and has done faithfully for the last 4 years).

My kids were upset that he couldn't even call them on Valentine's Day and went to bed (bedtime 9pm). So I lost it and left him a voicemail that was rather ugly and sent him a text saying that it would be his last opportunity to disappoint the kids. He finally calls at 9:20 and can't understand why the kids are asleep,we argue and I hang up on him. He calls back and ends up hanging up on me...childish, I know. Then he sends me a text trying to say he was at work and didn't have a signal to call us, and then ended up at the card room.

I'm finding it very hard to maintain my cool right now. If he wants to hurt me thats fine, but don't hurt the kids, they don't deserve it. I also asked him to keep them next Friday night as I have to work on Saturday and he can't even commit to that. He wants to just show up Sat. morning before I go. I have to leave at 6:30am and I can't trust that he will be there and when I told him that, he just went ballistic.

I don't know what to do...
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 02/28/08 12:58 AM
Well here we are an as yet, nothing has been resolved. Tomorrow will be 2 months that he has been gone and he still can't decide.

I was talking to him today and I asked what he wanted for his birthday and he said a brain and the courage to make a decision either way. I told him he just needed to do whatever he needed to do for himself. He told me how he has become wishy-washy and how he never used to be that way, DUH!!!

He said he is scared either way and I had to go, but good lord how is this so hard? If the person you are having a PA/EA with in 4 months is better to/for you than I have been in 20 years, move on! Let me get on with my life, why all of this waffling and making things harder than they need to be?

I have noticed that the less I contact, the more he contacts me. He has called me 4 times in the last 2 days and his comment is always, "I don't know why I'm calling to tell you this!"

Today I told him, "Its because you Love me so much." I was just joking and he told me that he did, which opened up the conversation above. I'm sooo confused, I want to push, but it'll just end up badly, but I also am getting tired of waiting.

Any advice?
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/04/08 11:25 PM
Quote:
Tomorrow will be 2 months that he has been gone and he still can't decide.


Is he offering up his thoughts on his own? Or are you asking for them?

Quote:
I was talking to him today and I asked what he wanted for his birthday and he said a brain and the courage to make a decision either way. I told him he just needed to do whatever he needed to do for himself.


Not trying to be rude, but he's throwing himself a little pity party. My H did that quite frequently.

Your H, as well as mine, was/is probably feeling rather disappointed in himself. Next time he says something negative about himself, how can you help lift his spirits and boost his confidence? Point out anything positive he's got going on in his life. Help him feel better about himself.

Quote:
...why all of this waffling and making things harder than they need to be?


Your H is confused, and I don't think he's intentionally making things harder. He's got a lot on his mind to work through and figure out on his own. You cannot help him here. All you can do is continue to be supportive when he needs you to be. Just be his friend. The kind of friend we all go to when we just need to talk. The friend who listens, validates, never judges, and looks at the brighter side. Be positive.

Quote:
I have noticed that the less I contact, the more he contacts me. He has called me 4 times in the last 2 days and his comment is always, "I don't know why I'm calling to tell you this!"


He's calling because you're not chasing him (no begging, pleading, or pursuing from you). He's calling because he still feels he can talk to you. He's calling because he wants to.

Quote:
I'm sooo confused, I want to push, but it'll just end up badly, but I also am getting tired of waiting.


You are precisely right! If you push, it won't be good. Don't do it.

Time and patience both can be your worst enemies yet also your best friends. (Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. ;\) )

Be patient with your H and give him the time he desperately needs. Again, he has a lot to deal with on his own.

YOU have stuff to work on as well, don't you?
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/05/08 01:02 AM
GoingForward,

I sure do. I have lost 35lbs. since this whole thing started and I go to the gym at lunch most days. I also go to IC as well as MC.

I know he is confused, but he confuses me too! He was asking about some tax information and I told him he had a large stack of mail at my house and that I would bring it to him at our kids baseball games and he said that he hated to bring a bunch of stuff to his moms as thats not where he was going to be living. He also told me we should start buying up some of the houses that are in foreclosure so we could use them to build up our retirement portfolio, but then he wants to know when I'll be home on Saturday. He texted me and wanted to know what time I would be off and I told him about 5pm, why? No reply. So I was kidding and I texted him back "Hot Date" and he replied yeah. So when we were in person he asked again what time I would be home and then said, well if you get off at 5, you'll be home by 5:30 and that'll give me enough time. So I asked where he was going and he told me it wasn't any of my business, which really hurt. I told him that if he was worried about time, he could always ask my niece to come and watch them and he kept saying, well you'll be home. Then he comes off with, well I don't know why you are making a big deal out of it....HUH?

We have MC tomorrow, for the first time in a month. Last session I cussed him out and the C thought we needed about a month off to work on ourselves as my anger seemed to be simmering somewhere near the surface. I really haven't let him have it at all throughout this whole thing and I just got mad, I couldn't help it, and even though it wasn't helpful, it sure felt good!

I just don't know what to think. I have given him until July 4 to make a decision one way or another. This will give him time to work with a C and figure out who/what/why etc... that he wants for his life. This date is a moveable date though. He walked out on his last counselor and at that time I told him that if he found another counselor and made an appointment in a reasonable amount of time (a week) that the date would remain July 4, if he chose not to see a counselor, that the date would then move to May 1. When he protested, I reminded him that the time is for him to work with a counselor on his issues and left to his own devices that July was way too far away for me.

His appt. with a new person is this Friday,but he got on it right away. If he walks out on this one, the date moves to April 15, and it is a non-negotiable date.

I'm working on setting boundaries, I'm not very good at it, but I'm trying. I am also going back to school in the summer to finish up and transfer as a Junior to a University here to get a Business Admn. degree. I can't make him love me and I can't fix him, but I sure wish I could.

Thanks for all of your insight and support, everyone. I couldn't do it without you guys.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/11/08 05:20 PM
Well, I just have to get this off of my chest...

H and I went to mc for the first time in a month, last time I ended up cussing him out and the C said we needed some time to work on our own "issues". It went ok, but he was just being a child. He kept giggling and just kind of being a pompous ass. The C asked him more than once, "Is there something funny about this?" "What is so amusing?" He says he was emabarrassed, he should be, but anyway it was really frustrating. He was defending the OW which made me want to smack him. He was complaining that even though he is gone and spending all of his free time with OW, I don't pursue him...as if! I told him that I don't CHOOSE to participate in a relationship with him and OW and until something changes there, that I won't pursue that. The C and I both had to point out, "You have a girlfriend, why would she pursue you?" He just didn't seem to get it! He then tells the C that he thinks he will end up at home, he just needs to get his head together and go to his own C and work this out.

He went to his first session with new C on Friday and I had to drop off my S12 baseball hat to him. I was hoping he would still be inside so I could just drop it and go, but no luck. H kept asking me "Whats wrong?" I kept saying nothing, but then I slipped and started a R/OW talk. BIG MISTAKE!!! HUGE! H got all mad and said that I just needed to understand that we are separated and to get over it. I asked him if that meant I should/could get a OM and he said, "If thats what you think you need to do!" and I said "Good to know" and then told him I was out and left. He called me a few mins later to tell me that he understood and knew that I would be calling him later to tell him I was sorry and that I felt guilty about the R talk and to his surprise I told him I wouldn't and that I didn't feel bad. Made him even more mad. FFW....

H picked kids up Fri. afternoon to keep them because I had to work on Sat. He calls me at 6pm and wants to know what I'm doing, when I said I was getting ready to meet a friend he said, "I'll let you go then." I asked him what was up and he said "Nevermind, you're busy." and I said "OK." and hung up the phone. He ended up leaving my kids with my MIL so he could go and gamble. So my friend and I went and had dinner and a couple drinks and decided to go to the card room and check it out.

We walked in and were headed to the bar and I spotted him at a table and OW was sitting right next to him. He never even looked up. So we sat at the bar and watched them for awhile. She kept getting up and going over to a table where she had some food and was getting her grub on. I had never seen her up close before and I was scared! She stared us down as well, but not because she knew who I was, thats just how she is I guess. I saw one of the waitresses and I took her wedding pictures and we were talking and she was shocked to find out that my H was married (no one there knows) and was having an A with OW. When we got ready to leave I had a drink (diet coke) delivered to him and she told him it was from me. I stood by a table and the look on their faces was priceless...not really shock, just embarrassment. I waved and then flipped them off (I shouldn't have) and left. It was the best thing I have done yet. It may not follow DB principles, but it has really helped me detach and be able to reconcile in my own mind that this is his choice and that I will just need to really GAL and go on.

He ended up calling me at 3:45 in the morning and telling me that he was sorry that I had seen that, blah, blah,blah and that ulimately he just needed to get this out of his system and that he thought he would be home. I really didn't say too much back. When I got home the next day from work, he was in my bed and looked terrible (he had only had a couple hours of sleep over a period of about 3 days) and my S later told me he was in there before I got home and my H had been crying.

Any comments are welcome, I am avoiding R talks like the plague, however I did tell him what I had been told about her that night and thought he should know. He got angry and said he was going to confront her and that she would probably be calling me for talking bad about her and I reminded him that I didn't know her, that this is what people that know her have said about her...big difference. If I was going to try and convince him she is as shady as she is, wouldn't I have told him this when I first found out? I guess that made some sort of sense to him, but I ended it with, "This was just for your information, do with it what you will. I only want whats best for you and you need to make informed decisions. I don't think everything that was said is the gospel, however I think there is at least a grain of truth in all of it and I think in light of the fact that we have children that I wouldn't want that type of element around them. But I realize that this life is what you choose and she is your choice for right now." Since then he has been the one to bring her up and I remind him, "She is your choice." I don't really have anything else to say about it.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/12/08 03:14 PM
The OW started texting me last night and it went on for some time. I shouldn't have even bothered with her, but it got the best of me. She is so nasty, the stuff she put is just gross. I called H and told him that it had better put his dog on a leash and that if it didn't stop I would be at the Courthouse this morning.

This is just too much for me. I told him this morning that he has to make a choice and I have nothing to say to him until he does. I can't do this anymore. HELP!!!!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 04:15 PM
Can anyone offer me some insight? I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or not. I know I shouldn't push, but I can no longer be part of a relationship with my H and the OW. She crossed the line and I just can't do it anymore...

Anyone?
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 04:25 PM
I think NC except for absolute necessities dealing with the kids is necessary for your sanity.

Perhaps you should also change your phone number to get OW to leave you alone.

Although I had to chuckle about the dog on the leash thing, were those your actual words? If so, I'd predict his response was angry/defensive? I think a clear statement will go further - I do not want OW contacting me. I will change my number if I have to. Please tell her to stop contacting me.

I'm soooo sorry you are in the middle of all this right now.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 04:54 PM
Yes, those were my exact words!

I told him he has to choose and I mean it, but I really did want to give him the time I promised him to work it out. I realize I have put myself in a Catch 22, if he chooses me, he will be angry and resentful for me "making him" give her up and if he chooses her, he will feel whatever about me walking away.

I'm not a very good DB'er in my own sitch, but it was just too out of control for me. I can't spend the next few months wondering when she is going to spew forth more disgusting nuggets of information.

I'm not the cell phone account holder, he is, so I can't change my number w/out him.

I appreciate the response!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 06:14 PM
I think your approach may be: I will not be part of your R with OW. So long as that is going on, we cannot work on our R/M. Please tell her to stop contacting me or we need to change my phone number. I am not going to file for D yet, but my patience is not infinite.

I'm just shooting from the hip here as I cannot predict how your H will react.

Hope that gives you some ideas.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 06:17 PM
Oh, and I just had to add - her behavior is extremely immature and shows great insecurity. Not to mention drama. I think her and H will tire of each other quite quickly. Let her be the source of his stress and drama - he deserves it lol.
Posted By: Starshyne Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 06:19 PM
What Michelle has posted is basically what I've told my H. I told him that he is free to see the OW, but I no longer want to be a part of the R. If he wants to live in our home with me (and therefore me paying the bills) he needs to end all contact with the OW. No cell phone calls, text messages, emails, sign language, seeing her, telegrams,(I went on and on with just about any form of communication I could think of). It worked. I think he still contacts her now and then, but their relationship has bascially ended. This was a 180 for me because before I was very passive and allowed him to do whatever he wanted.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 07:04 PM
Michelle & Starshyne,

I wish I would have put it this way instead of saying that he had to choose. I feel that if I back down at all now that he will just run all over me, but I also feel that it may come back to bite me in the end.

He needs to get some help in the worst way. I know she is just a symptom of all of his bigger issues, but it was just SO innapropriate and over the line, I just am not able to deal with that anymore and that he is still interested in someone that would do that do another person, let alone his wife just shows me how far down he has sunk.

Can anyone suggest a way to put it this way (What Michelle posted) without losing anymore ground with boundary setting?
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/13/08 11:46 PM
IMO, Michelle put it perfectly.

Now as to possibly losing any more ground, I think that will only happen if you don't stick to the boundaries you set forth.

You gave him a date - in one of your posts you said it was July 4th. I don't think your H needs to be reminded, unless HE initiates an R talk that you can't get out of. That's when you can remind him that you won't be a part of his R with OW. You won't tolerate it in your M.

In the meantime, you need to focus on you. Control your actions as well as your reactions. No more flipping the finger, no more drama. I know you're hurting and you want to lash out, but is it really going to help your M in the end?

Be the better option. Be the better person. Do not focus on the A. Focus on YOU.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 12:20 AM
Just wanted to add that I found this to be interesting:

Quote:
He was complaining that even though he is gone and spending all of his free time with OW, I don't pursue him...


This too:

Quote:
He ended up calling me at 3:45 in the morning and telling me that he was sorry that I had seen that, blah, blah,blah and that ulimately he just needed to get this out of his system and that he thought he would be home.


I could be wrong, but it seems to me that your H "ultimately" wants to be with you again, but for whatever reason, he's not feeling loved. He's not feeling wanted.

Have you read "The Five Love Languages" by Chapman? Do you know what your H's LLs are?
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 06:28 PM
He probably isn't feeling loved, wanted or pursued by anyone but the OW at this time, because I can not longer put myself in that position. I have told him that I love him and that I believe we can work this out, but we can't as long as there are 3 in the marriage.

I have let him cake-eat this whole time and I just can't do it anymore. It doesn't make anything better and I can't keep letting my feelings overtake my common sense. You are too right about the drama too, thats why I am choosing to step away.

I'm not leaving him, just the relationship with "them."

I told him what Michelle said and he sounded relieved. I told him that he didn't have to choose, that I had said he had until July and that I would honor that committment. However until all contact with the OW stopped, that I would no longer participate in R/M. I will be available to talk about the kids, finances or anything pertaining to the running of our household, but thats all.

Had to go to D6 "Student of the Moth" awards assembly this a.m. and he told me that he knew what he was going to do. He wanted us to work and that he needed his time with his counselor and that he needs time to get rid of OW too. I couldn't help it, I told him the longer he kept her around, the harder it will be. He said he knew, but didn't really say much more and I dropped it. I don't know what is going to happen, all I can do at this point is take care of my kids and myself and let the chips fall where they may.

I think he meant it when he said it, but actions speak louder than words and he is going to have to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
actions speak louder than words and he is going to have to not only talk the talk, but walk the walk.


You said it! And that's the only way he'll ever be able to regain your trust or make the M work.

I'm glad he seemed to respond to what I said. I wish I could come up with such good material on the spot in my own stitch!

I totally sympathize with the cake-eating thing. I think my H was doing a bit of that at first. I think in some stitches, especially where the 5LL is physical affection, maintaining some sort of H/W relationship can be helpful, but it's all about what you can stomach. I got sick of the drama as well.

I think you being clear that you are not walking away from him, accepting the uncertainty in your stitch, and taking care of yourself and the kids is healthy detachment.

I am also curious what your H's LL is, even if only for future reference.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 06:53 PM
I'm going to have to read that book, the 5LL and figure it out. I think it would really help.

I hate to give up the physical affection, because sometimes it feels like the only connection we have. But after the texts that I was sent, I just can't do it anymore, its just not something I can continue to do when I'm not the only one...eeeeewwwww!!!!

Its harder to think when you are "in the moment" about what to say and how to say it without making things worse. Thanks again, you really helped me...I owe you one! \:\)
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 07:05 PM
http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/30sec.html

You can also find a lot of basic info about the 5LL on that website w/o buying the book. I checked it out of the library, it is quite good although since I'm not terribly religious I got a bit annoyed by certain parts.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 07:21 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
I'm going to have to read that book, the 5LL and figure it out. I think it would really help.


I think it would, too. That's why I asked if you knew your H's LLs. Individuals often have two.

And for all you know, PT (physical touch) may not be one of them.

If his LL is WOA (words of affirmation), you can compliment him and give him praise. AOS (acts of service), do little things for him that you know he would appreciate. Gifts, get him a little something just to show you care. QT (quality time), and this is a hard one to implement without coming off as chasing, invite him along on family outings with the kids.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 07:25 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
I hate to give up the physical affection, because sometimes it feels like the only connection we have.

Lol. Not sure from your post, but I'd hazard a guess that one of your top two LL is physical touch.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/14/08 07:47 PM
Thats too funny , I'm gonna go with yeah on that one! I believe that its one of his too!

Thanks for the link and I'll definately check it out.

We actually do spend time together, both of our kids are playing baseball right now and the each have 1 game during the week and 1 on Saturdays, and they are rarely on the same night, so we see each other then too. I can't exclude him from family stuff, that wouldn't be fair to my kids and even if we do end up in a D, we will have to deal with each other for the rest of our lives because we have kids.

I looked at the link and I think his first one would be words of affirmation. Now I have to get this book. Thanks again!
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/15/08 02:07 AM
I'd like to chime in here because I, too, had contact with OW in my sitch. She called a few times, and emailed, me, too. Mostly I ignored her. I never answered her emails. I did end up talking to her on the phone once but only because the phone I picked did not have caller ID on it. I didn't know it was her.

She began making contact when the A with my H was dying. She was getting desperate. I don't know what she was trying to accomplish -- perhaps wanted to just p!ss me off OR she was mad at H and this was her way to lash out. As Michelle, said, I think it was insecurity, too.

I think OW in your sitch is showing her anger. Just ignore her. Don't answer her texts or calls. She isn't worth your time. And, if you want to keep your PMA, ignoring her will make your feel better (even if it's because you know you're p!ssing her off by ignoring her!).

I'm sure she's expressing anger and impatience at your H, too, so keep on smiling. She's showing her true colors.
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/15/08 02:26 AM
Oh ... I have to add that ML really helped H and I reconnect. Sometimes it was so hard to keep smiling, and more, because I knew he was still in contact with her. But I detached, detached, detached. Like I said, I was in it for the fight!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 05:10 PM
You are never going to believe this...the OW says she is pregnant. What do I do now?

HELP!!!!!!!!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 05:46 PM
Yikes! Like you needed any more drama....

Well, I'd hope she's lying and just saying it to get a reaction out of him/you. Take a deep breath and try and calm down a bit.

Did she tell you or your H? How plausible do you think it is?

More importantly, what do you think this changes?
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 05:55 PM
Unfortunately I think its real. I'm just in shock...

She told him on Friday. I guess she has suspected for a couple of weeks. She showed him a test that was positive but he doesn't know anything about that stuff & she works for Kaiser, so she could get just about anything done she wants.

I told him that first he needs to make sure she is (ie: another test and when he suggested it, she flipped out.) He needs to do a paternity test when it arrives, she got pissed. They also need to decide what it is they want to do, she says there is only 1 option...she wants it. I suggested letting us adopt it, she says no way. She then asked him if I would "let" him hand deliver the child support... I just want to scream!

How sad that you would go to this length, not to mention what a complete idiot my H is. He actually told me that she told him she didn't think she could get pregnant...yet she has a D12. If you are going to think with the little brain, make sure he is wearing a helmet!

I'm just so confused!!!!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 05:58 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
If you are going to think with the little brain, make sure he is wearing a helmet!


I know this situation is NOT funny, but that made me laugh as my H was also stupid about that.

I know it sucks, but try and see this as a time to be there for him and support him. He is probably just as confused as you are, if not more.


(((hugs))) I am sooooo sorry you are stuck in the middle of this f'd up stitch.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 06:44 PM
Michelle,

Thanks for all of your support and really thats all I can do at this point. I just have to be there for him and be as good a friend as I can. I have to vent here too, because venting to him is just counterproductive. Whats the saying...you can't unring that bell.

A part of me still wants to believe she is messing with him, its totally something she would do, but I'm also realistic enough to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I'm thinkin' that green beer is definately in order!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 06:44 PM
I think you have precisely the right attitude about this.

I hope things get better soon.

I'm with you on the beer thing too!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/17/08 10:46 PM
Wow. Just wow. She is quite the brazen, bold OW. Funny she has such self confidence for a woman that only goes after married men. Such issues she must have.

I am sorry. Sounds like you are dealing well with it, I know it must be very hard.

My coworker adopted her H's 'affair baby' years ago. He still sees his biological mother, but very rarely.

Keep us posted and remember you are the stable and steady one here, don't let them shake you.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/18/08 06:50 PM
lwb, its funny you should say that as its crossed my mind way more than once. How is that working out? I don't think she would/will be willing to do that because then she doesn't have any leverage to keep H around.

She doesn't realize that all of this game playing is just making a bad situation worse and when push comes to shove legally, he has rights just like she does.

So sad, to be willing to go to this length to keep someone you don't really want in the first place. After re-reading those texts she sent me the other night, I wouldn't let her raise my dog, let alone a child. This one will probably be no different than her last though. She lives with Mommy & Daddy and goes out to play, while they do the parenting. I can't imagine how excited they will be to find out that the Baby-Daddy is a married man with 2 kids of his own...to be a fly on the wall.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/21/08 03:12 AM
I'm having a really hard night, thinking that maybe I should just go ahead and walk away.

Apparently OW had some sort of preliminary appointment regarding her pregnancy and H ended up going with her. I called him and he lied about where he was. He had told me he wasn't going to go.

I don't know how I'm going to be able to keep myself together with this, I don't even know if its worth it...

Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/21/08 03:19 AM
Oh I am so sorry. If you can, pop over to "Surviving The Big D", and find Hope11. She has a story you can read. She has been there done that with the pregnant OW. I am so sorry, your pain must be so raw right now.

1. Guess what IS worth it?? Taking care of yourself and having a nice weekend with your kids. It can be a quiet weekend, but pick one thing a day that your kids would find fun, and DO IT. To get through the raw, horrible times, I figured out, "I can hide from my kids and cry, or I can read them a book. Either way, it would take about 10 minutes, and what would be better for my kids?"

2. Enough of H's HUGE drama. I wouldn't ask another word about OW and her drama. Just chant "Not my mess, not my mess". No snooping, nothing. Just 'turn it off' as much as you can.

Take care.
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/21/08 03:22 AM
Quote:
lwb, its funny you should say that as its crossed my mind way more than once. How is that working out? I don't think she would/will be willing to do that because then she doesn't have any leverage to keep H around.


Well, its rough, but she has adopted him and I think he is about 10 yrs old now. She is a good person and I know she treats him as her own. The OW faded into the sunset, I guess seeing the pregnancy didn't really 'win' the H, so gave up the child too. Sad, really.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/21/08 08:13 AM
I'm sooo sorry you are having a rough night. I hope you get some sleep and feel a little more ready to tackle life tomorrow.

(((hugs)))
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/23/08 04:13 PM
Happy Easter, grumpy!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/23/08 05:46 PM
Happy Easter!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/25/08 06:06 PM
Thanks for the Easter wishes. I was a total mess the other night and right now its like being on a roller coaster, one minute I'm ok and the next I'm just a puddle.

There was more and more drama, what a surprise. H and OW are fighting now because she is actually upset that he had to/chose to spend Easter with his children and me rather than go and play cards with her. This woman is a complete psycho and it just gets worse by the day.

I am so ready to be done with this drama, but a part of me wants to help him as a friend.

I don't know. I'm so confused. I understand why he now has to do the "right thing", but its just so damn hard for me to be ok with it.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/25/08 06:20 PM
(((((Grumpyeby))))),

Don't get involved. Let OW continue to dig her own grave.

Be strong and remain the better person.

Good to hear that he was with his kiddos. \:\)
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/25/08 06:23 PM
You said it - you understand why he has to do the right thing, she doesn't. Because the right thing includes not neglecting his children!

She is pushing him away, let her!

Stay strong. You are doing amazingly well.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/25/08 11:52 PM
How do I deal with this pregnancy thing?

Maybe I'm just a skeptic, but the other night he and I got together and he showed me a couple of the text messages she sent him and they were telling him how she was having pains and that I might get my wish, etc... implying she was losing the baby, well I found out later that he had told her that we were going to be together and I don't know if that started before or after he told her that.

I don't believe in "coincidences" and it seems like it was quite a "coincidence" that after the last go around on the texting that she came up pregnant and now she is having miscarriage drama. The timing seems to come whenever she thinks he is going away. He has still not had her take another test, so she may not even be...yeah right!

I hate to wish anything bad on someone else, but I do wish this would all go away, one way or another. I'll probably burn for it, but I do.
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/26/08 12:01 AM
Don't feel bad for your thoughts. Of course you want your pain to go away. Of course you do. Is this pg 100% confirmed by a doctor? I just wonder if she is making all this drama up to keep your H? It isn't going to work.

My advice when H talks with you about OW (like him showing you the texts), be vague, don't get into a name-calling game about OW with him. If he told you about the Easter thing and how she was mad he spent Easter with his kids, just say something like "Well, your kids were thrilled to have you there", nothing about OW.

Try to avoid the craziness as much as possible. You are doing great.
Posted By: Sara Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/26/08 12:08 AM
You have good reason to be skeptical. My son had a girlfriend who announced that her period was late on April 1 last year. Then on April 15, she claimed to be dying of cancer and too far into the pregnancy to have an abortion! I explained to my son, that in the old days when I was pregnant, 3 months actually took 3 months -- not 15 days! Turns out it was all drama to hold onto him.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/26/08 12:30 AM
Quote:
Turns out it was all drama to hold onto him.


That's all it is, grumpyeby. OW is so freakin' insecure about everything in her life that she's desperately trying to hold onto your H, probably the only solid thing she's had in a long time, if not ever. My, my...the games some women will play.

(((Hugs to you.)))
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/26/08 04:09 PM
I'm headed to the attorney's office tonight for a consultation. My dad is a divorce attorney in Reno and wants me to know what I am entitled to under the laws of California. I also need to know how the "blessed event" will affect me in the end or what she can expect. I'm pretty sure she is pregnant and I'm just ready to go dark for a while...

Its just too much for me.
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/26/08 10:48 PM
Dark is good. Being protected by seeing an atty is good. I am sorry!!
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/26/08 11:46 PM
Well, whether or not she really is pregnant...the rest of it is all drama to hold onto your H. And while he's gonna blame it on the hormones, in reality, he will see that it is her - she really is that insecure and an attention-whore. Especially this early in a pregnancy? Granted, no kids myself, but I've watched my mom go through 2 that I remember (1 that I don't lol). Not to mention friends and other family. It's BS and your H will realize it. ((((((hugs))))))
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/27/08 05:06 PM
Maybe so, but just for my own piece of mind, I need a break from it all. The attorney was depressing. If I was to start the proceedings right now, I would end up having to sell my house and that is the last thing I want. My support would also decrease, the minute she files for support. WTF? How the hell does that seem fair, but it does...

So for the time being I will just remain in this holding pattern. I don't want to sell my house because my kids have suffered enough in this. I want them to be able to go through school with the same friends and have the stability I didn't, sounds really Beaver Cleaver, but it something I promised that I would do if I could.

My H needs to get his S&%t together and that is on him. He will eventually have to make some decisions and face the consequences of his actions. For the time being, I just need to be the best me I can be and the best mom and stop wallowing in the drama and just GAL!!!

I have to see him because we have 2 baseball games a week for each kid and at least he helps me with those. The games during the week are usually at 5:15 and I get off at 5. He gets off at 2:30, so he picks them up and gets them ready, so I guess it could be worse. We shall see...
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/27/08 10:51 PM
Are we absolutely sure, that if OW is in fact pregnant, that your H is the father? I can't recall my ATTY's exact words, but he mentioned something about a law being passed not too many years ago regarding paternity tests being done at the time of birth. I certainly wouldn't have H put his name on that birth certificate without concrete proof.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/28/08 07:57 PM
Well here is the newest wrinkle. She & H are both having to be treated for trichomoniasis (its an STD). Its highly contagious and apparently it rears its ugly head in women between 5 and 28 after exposure... Since H SWEARS he was with no one else but OW, it seems that the OW may not be as faithful as she made herself out to be. We also know that I wasn't the one that spread it to H, because I had a full STD screen in January and that one was negative. I'm so glad that now I get to go back and do it all over again. I'm an idiot, I know...

OW is actually trying to denying to H that she was with anyone else. What a clusterf*$k!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/28/08 08:01 PM
Wow, grumpyeby. I am sooo sorry.

Really consider that paternity test now, but more importantly, I hope you're alright.

(((((((Big hugs)))))))
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/28/08 08:25 PM
Weeeeeeell, isn't that interesting. Hope he realizes the truth soon.

This is gonna sound weird, but while I hope your screen comes back negative, if it doesn't at least it's only trichononiasis since it's sooooo easily treated.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/28/08 09:57 PM
Thanks, I hope in a selfish way it does too, but being a realist, I'm sure it won't. I just hope that is the WORST thing it comes back with.

Soap Operas can't hold a candle to this stuff.

He does realize the truth, he just doesn't want to. So I guess I need to realize the truth and that is he is totally willing to give up me and the kids for this POS cheating, hood-rat, hoochie, nasty, stanky whore...for lack of a better term.

(I just love that part in Liar, Liar when Jim Carey and his boss go into that meeting and she knows he can't lie and asks him what he thinks of everyone there. Its classic!)
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/28/08 10:59 PM
He's stupid. He doesn't know what he's giving up, and he obvioiusly is in denial about who he is giving it all up for or he would be on his knees begging you to forgive him.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/29/08 03:31 AM
You know, he said the same thing as you did. That he hopes my test comes back negative... Does he just need a reason to be done?

I am so confused, but dwelling on it won't change it. I do so look forward to each new day! LOL! You know what they say, Denial, its not just a river anymore.

I'm going to really have to get it together here pretty soon. I am going to have to stop this if I want to have a shred of dignity left when I walk away.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/29/08 07:43 AM
Just take it for a shred of common politeness and leave it at that. As usual, it's about him - he's acting out because of depression/misery/whatever, but he doesn't actually INTEND to hurt you, so he wouldn't wish for you to have anything.

Just keep plugging along. You are doing fine.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/31/08 05:23 AM
Well its been a lovely weekend here in Drama central. Hung out with H most of it. We were together Friday night as D had baseball practice and S had a birthday party at the batting cages right by the baseball park. We talked and I brought him the information on Trich that I printed from the CDC website where it tells about the symptoms and stuff. As much as it hurts me, I know he doesnt want to believe she cheated on him, but he is also logical enough to know that its the truth. He went to see if he could make her confess (yeah right!) and I guess it didn't work out, but he called me and we ended up talking on the phone all night long (from midnight until almost 4:30am) and he decided that he needed to honest with me about them. I heard things I really didn't want to know, but in a sick way it was good because he seemed like he wanted to clean the slate.

Saturday we were at D game at 9am, I was so tired. He went home to sleep and go to work and we had a bunch of errands to run. We then had to go to S game at 5pm, nothing like spacing them farther apart! and we were together at that one. H told me OW was still denying being with anyone else and had been in tears over it. Game lasted until 8:00 and S and D went home with MIL (where H lives now) and he went to torment OW into telling him who she cheated on him with. S wanted to come home and H ended up bringing him. I offered to meet him 1/2 way and he insisted on coming here himself. We hung out until 12:30 and he went home to go to bed. He knows she is a cheat, but having a hard time with it.

H and I spent today together, kids were at our nephews birthday party and neither of us wanted to go, there is too much family drama there. We had a nice day, but its sad to see him upset over someone else.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/31/08 05:27 AM
I am glad he realizes the truth even if OW won't confess to it yet. It's amazing how even when caught with evidence the response is always, of course I didn't cheat on you.

Overall, it sounds like you guys had a pretty good weekend. He seems to be confiding in you a lot and looking to you for support emotionally. Plus the whole owning up to the A and coming clean. There are some nice positives there. I hope they continue.

Have a good week. \:\) Try and stay clear of the drama.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/31/08 06:03 PM
Well the doctors visit was interesting. She said it didn't look like I had it, unless it was an early exposure. I got treated anyway and I am waiting for the rest of the stuff, but H says that OW's dr said she was really infected (EEEWWWW!!!) so that is just freakin' weird. Anyway, here is his out now. He can now justify it in his own mind, but no matter what I know the truth. The scary part is, I think she believes it too. She SWEARS she hasn't been with anyone but how could that be true? She also hasn't been to a gyno in 2 years and she works for Kaiser...thats just wrong.

I forgot to put that Friday night he asked me if I would be willing to give him a 2nd chance and I replied that if he wanted a 2nd chance he would have to prove to me that he was worthy of it. I told him I was done chasing him and that he needed to do the work. So we will see. He has slept since then and with an addict, its not what they say, its what they do...
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 03/31/08 06:58 PM
I guess it's possible she had it for a long time....but ewwwwww!

I am glad he is thinking and expressing his doubts. He's probably been thinking them for a while, so even though he'll withdraw for a while and think more, it's certainly a big step in the right direction.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/01/08 07:35 PM
This just gets better and better. H met us at the park so he could pitch to S and give him some hitting/pitching practice. I didn't hear from him so I knew he was with OW, thats his MO. Anyway, I get a phone call from him at about 8pm and he sounds really upset. I guess he and OW got into it about who she has been with, and she tried to get out of the car while moving, ran out into the middle of traffic and then refused to get back in the car and walked home... He calls me and says, "You haven't been with anyone have you?" I told him no, that I'm a married woman and don't do that and he told me we are separated. I pointed out to him that he is separated and that I have made it VERY clear what I want and seeing someone else would not further that along. More drama...drama...drama... H says that OW will probably never speak to him again and that she will definately take him to the DA now, like he could believe that she wouldn't in the first place. OK! I know I should try and be supportive, but the little devil inside says, "Good, I hope you both get a taste of what you've been dishing out for the last 5 months."

So he calls back to tell the kids goodnight and tells me at the end that he doesn't want to talk to anyone and that I can call him with the results of my tests. WHATEVER!!!!!!! Even better, eureka, how 'bout I don't call you...bastard!

I don't know what I did in my last life, but it must have been pretty damn bad. I am just so over all of this crap right now. He wants silence, he is going to get silence. I just need a break. I can't take it, this is just too much like Jr. High for me. These two are nuts
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/01/08 07:57 PM
Wow. OW is just over the top melodramatic crazy!!!

I totally sympathize with wanting him to get a taste of his own medicine. Personally, I think that's fine as long as you don't do or say anything along the lines of "I told you so" lol.

I don't think it's what you did in your last life...I think it's what they did in their last lives. You are the sane and patient one in this whole mess! (((hugs)))
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/01/08 08:24 PM
Oh boy, grumpyeby. You've been through more sh!t than anyone deserves. I don't think this is payback for your past life mistakes. You seem very strong and balanced. You deserve so much better. How can your H live with himself? Lord help him. You mentioned "addict" - is he currently addicted? I'll need to go review your other threads.

I'm sending some virtual support and strength your way... hang in there.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/01/08 10:19 PM
(((((((Grumpyeby)))))))

Quote:
He calls me and says, "You haven't been with anyone have you?"


Something tells me (especially after all that drama) that OW tried (or is trying) to convince him that she is not to blame for the STD. So she wickedly tries to turn it around onto you in order to put doubt in H's mind and therefore getting him off her back....making OW feel better about herself and her irresponsible choices.

(((Hang in there.)))
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 04:10 PM
girlfromipanema, my husband is addicted to gambling and the OW is too. They met at the cardroom, how romantic!!!

Michelle, the only thing I have told him is that this is what happens when you stick your d*#k in a hearse...he doesn't think that is amusing and frankly neither do I, but thats how it feels. Can't wait to get my results now, I hope there is nothing there.

Going Forward, my conscience is clear. I don't know if its the OW or H that is trying to make this about me. I haven't been with anyone else in 20 years, since we have been together and he knows this, but I think a part of him wants to believe that she wouldn't cheat on him.

We were at our S game and it was ok. We didn't talk about any of this and that is just fine. My DD has a game tonight and he will be there too, so we shall see. The only thing he has said is that they haven't spoken only sent texts and those are more of the same as the other night. Not my problem, but its about time she got a tast of the OTHER side of H. \:D
Posted By: Yoyowife Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 04:37 PM
(((((((Grumpeybye)))))))
You are so correct in saying this like Jr. High drama. Our WAS begin to act like immature teenagers. They are out only for themselves, never mind all the innocent victims they hurt....

I keep thinking about Karma...what goes around comes around. I guess I'm the immature one now. I just want the karma to hurry and catch up to the WAS and the OP!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 05:06 PM
Quote:
I think a part of him wants to believe that she wouldn't cheat on him.


Of course he wants to believe this! If he didn't, it would shatter his perfect little fantasy!

And I think deep down he knows you haven't been with anyone else. I'm telling ya, I have a strong feeling it's the drama queen sinking her venom in further and further...This skank's desperate and will do whatever she feels she has to do to keep your H on her side.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 05:52 PM
Hmmmmm, gambling addiction. I don't know much about addiction, but I've always heard the afflicted need to hit "rock bottom." Sounds like your H is getting pretty darn close. He can't be too proud that he has a SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE, for frick's sake.

Keep your chin up. You're doing a great job maintaining your balance and providing some stability for your children.
Posted By: Sara Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 09:25 PM
Well, if she cheated on him and got an STD, then he would have to question the paternity of her pregnancy too, wouldn't he?
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 09:38 PM
One would hope. I sure hope he checks EVERYTHING out and doesn't take her word for any of it.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/02/08 09:38 PM
OMG, I forgot all about the pregnancy. Any confirmation that the pregnancy is a reality? If it is confirmed, then, absolutely, the paternity should definitely be questioned. Does your H have any idea the kind of insane drama he has caused? It's like a bad soap opera plot.

I simply can't get over how composed you seem about this mess. You have my utmost respect.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 03:39 PM
Pregnancy confirmed, but H is saying that he wants a paternity test.

I'm glad I appear composed because in reality I am soooo not. This is probably one of the darkest periods of my life and while H realizes some of the damage he has caused, he will not begin to fully appreciate it until later.

I guess they are talking again and H supposedly told her that they will have to remain in contact because of the situation but that they can't be "romantically" involved and she cried and said it would be too hard...WTF? She got tested last Thursday and says her results aren't back yet, I'm not sure I buy that, but I think my H KNOWS that he didn't get any of this stuff from me. He is just having a really hard time reconciling reality with his fantasy, ie: shes a good person, she gave him and STD...he can't seem to understand that good people don't sleep with other people's husbands/wives and good people don't cheat. I'm waiting patiently to get my results and then I will proceed from there.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 04:39 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
he can't seem to understand that good people don't sleep with other people's husbands/wives and good people don't cheat.


That's always the catch isn't it - the OP is always so freakin' WONDERFUL and we hear how much better they are than us. But wonderful people don't have affairs or enable affairs. Only people with low self-esteem and issues are desperate enough to seek attention from a married person and try and break up a marriage.

I am glad your H is on board with the paternity test and is facing the reality of the situation. It must be VERY difficult for both of you - you have both had your ideals and dreams shattered into a million pieces.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 05:20 PM
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
I am glad your H is on board with the paternity test and is facing the reality of the situation.


Ditto!!!

It's also encouraging to hear that H is trying to limit contact between them. A bit of positive progress there \:\) . But as often advised, hope for the best but expect the worst.

((((Corey))))
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 08:47 PM
No progress, they are going to the movies tonight.

I hope one of them chokes on a Milk Dud...bastards.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 09:00 PM
Unfortunately, no matter how bad the OP starts looking when the newness wears off, I think they can still be more attractive than facing one's pride and mistakes and going home. Doesn't mean it won't happen eventually, just means that it is a long road.

As much as I totally understand the emotion behind your statement, and I hope one of them chokes as well...I hope they don't actually die from it. Because if she died right now, she would forever be the perfect woman in his head - and how can you compete with a dead fantasy?
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 10:47 PM
Quote:
I hope one of them chokes on a Milk Dud...bastards


Maybe we can just hope Ms. OW just sits in a seat that has spilled soda and gross popcorn butter all over it....

Its so hard to actually KNOW they are together. I only had that situation a few times in the last year, and boy, was it hard.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 11:00 PM
(((I'm sorry, Corey))). This just stinks.

Maybe she'll sit on some chewed-up gum or some bratty kid sitting behind her will kick her seat throughout the entire movie. It could happen, right? ;\)
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 11:04 PM
It usually happens lol. Especially with her karma. The odds are much in our favor....tehehe
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 11:05 PM
Muwahahaha...LOL
Posted By: LL44 Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 11:15 PM
Its harmless fun to dream up these images!!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/03/08 11:22 PM
Corey, where in CA are you? What theater will they be at?

I just might have to make this fantasy a reality, and my S3 is perfect for the job! \:\/

LOL ;\)
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 03:37 PM
GF, I'm in Bakersfield and apparently OW couldn't go last night...BOO HOO! I appreciate the offer though, thats too funny!

The kids and I went over to a friends house and H called at about 8:45 to say goodnight to the kids and actually tried to cop and attitude that I wasn't home. The friend is a man and my S goes to school with his daughter. Oh and did I mention he has a boyfriend? So, whatever! He is projecting his stuff onto me and thats just not gonna work. I spilled the whole sordid story over a couple of beers last night and my friends were just HORRIFIED! My kids bedtime is 9:00 and when he called again at 10:15 and I was still there he tried to be superdad and make me feel bad for keeping the kids up, but it didn't work. Hes just so lost, it makes me so sad.

I hate that I know I should walk away, but my heart just won't let me.

BTW...I would never actually wish death on them by choking on a Milk Dud, but could you see the news. "Pregnant Troll, 30 chokes on Milk Dud....film at 11." I just needed to say that here and not to him. It was hard not to. H knows shes not perfect by any means, but it doesn't stop him does it?
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 04:08 PM
Awww bummer. I was so looking forward to hearing all about the drama lol.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 05:12 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
GF, I'm in Bakersfield
Hey, I'm just up the road from you in Fresno (girlfrom"fresno" just doesn't have the same ring).

Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
I hate that I know I should walk away, but my heart just won't let me.

I hear ya. I hate that I still love my H so much and feel like he's not giving us the chance we deserve. That the choice is all HIS and I'm just along for the ride waiting for him to decide what he wants to do about our future together.

Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 05:52 PM
"Pregnant Troll"!!! LOL \:D

That reminds me of a license plate frame I read once: "Your plate might say princess...but your face screams troll"!!! LMAO \:D
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 06:00 PM
One of my favorites since all this crap happened has been "You Can't Make Someone Love You. You can only stalk them and hope for the best"
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 06:05 PM
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
One of my favorites since all this crap happened has been "You Can't Make Someone Love You. You can only stalk them and hope for the best"


\:D
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 06:41 PM
Yep and "If you love someone let them go and if it is meant to be then they will return, if they don't then you hunt them down and kill them."

Did I not mention she was a troll? I thought I had. 4ft. 10 and about a deuce.

gfi (your right fresno just doesn't have the same ring)- I hear you on your comment about being along for the ride. When do they pass out the motion sickness meds? \:\(

This is my ringback now:

Take away, take away
Take away this ball and chain
I'm lonely and I'm tired
And I can't take any more pain
Take away, take away
Never to return again
Take away, take away
Take away this ball and chain

Subtle, but it gets the point across...
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 06:49 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Did I not mention she was a troll? I thought I had. 4ft. 10 and about a deuce.


Holy crap! WTF is he thinking?????????



Oh wait, he's not! With either brain apparently......
Posted By: karen43 Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 07:03 PM
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Did I not mention she was a troll? I thought I had. 4ft. 10 and about a deuce.


Holy crap! WTF is he thinking?????????

Oh wait, he's not! With either brain apparently......


I think, at least in my case, and maybe some others, my H was looking for the total opposite of me. I am tall and she is short, I'm full time homeschooling my kids & devoted to them, the OW is a workaholic who spends her spare time at the gym or with my H & lets her 13 year old drink & go out (No what that would happen with my kids!), She's a lawyer, I'm a sahm, my kids are nice & healthy kids, hers have emotional problems, etc.

I guess if that's what he ultimately decides he wants to marry or live with (he has said he wants to live with her in the future) then he doesn't want someone like me and that is his choice then. I think he is trading in a steak for hamburger (rotten, moldy hamburger)!!! \:\) Karen
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 07:04 PM
LOL! I don't think that "Thinking" is their big common bond...
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/04/08 07:14 PM
Haha. Very very very true.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/05/08 11:13 AM
Well I have certainly done it this time. I met H at the batting cages tonight after work and he ended up taking S with him and my D came home with me. My S is staying the night at my MIL's house. H calls a couple of times and so I asked what he was going to do and he said "hang out", to which I replied what does that entail? Are you going out with OW and he said yes and it just snapped in me. I told him that even though he refuses to speak the words, the choices he makes reflect his feelings. I asked him why when he had the opportunity to do something with me did he choose her everytime and TELL me that he is going to end up with me?

I let it stew for about an hour and then sent him a txt that pretty much said I'm going to let you go. I didn't get any response from him and about 2:30am I was rereading it and resent it by mistake. So the phone rings almost immediately and its him asking whats going on? He says he didn't get it the first time because he was at Eagle Mtn. Casino (so much for not gambling) and that we could talk in the morning. I told him that there isn't anything else to say and that I had said what I needed to. He ends up getting mad at me and saying, well you said I had until July, but I guess that was just a lie.

WTF? You cheat on me and continue your affair and you are mad at me for letting you go? How in the hell does that work? I told him that if he wasn't willing to stop the bleeding that I would and he gets mad... If you know you are going to end up with me, be with me. If you aren't, go away. Why does it have to be so complicated?

So all my DB'ing is out the window and I may have just screwed things up for good, but I need some relief. Living in it day to day, 24/7 is just killing me.
Posted By: Hope4us Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/05/08 11:59 AM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
So all my DB'ing is out the window and I may have just screwed things up for good, but I need some relief. Living in it day to day, 24/7 is just killing me.


I'm with ya grumpy. Living this crap day in and day out is just emotionally draining. I feel like I haven't LIVED a normal day in 8 months.

I'm in the same boat as you. I told my WW that we needed to separate because she refuses to work on the marriage and end her affair with OM and she told me she agreed with the separation but she and DS15 were staying in the house. Ok, so help me with this, she is committing adultery, doesn't want to work on the marriage, but I'm supposed to move out, pay her CS and SP and not get to see my son on a daily basis?

I know this might not help, but keep your chin up. I get down a lot, but everytime I talk to my brother he tells me how proud he is of me and how I've handled the situation and that helps me carry on another day.

So I'll say to you (even though I don't know you), I'm proud how you've handled yourself in your sitch. Look at yourself in the mirror. There's an honorable person looking back at you.

Hugs from Hope4Us
Posted By: Snow White Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/05/08 12:16 PM
Hi Grumpy,

I don't think that your losing your cool once will make one lick of difference in the long run, how much can he expect you to take, the A, pregnancy, std, and rubbing it in your face that they are going out. All that and she's a troll!

It's morning and a new day and if you want to tell him F off all over again go for it, or if you want to renew your efforts do that too. I am certain since he said we'll talk about it in the morning-like my H always does-that he wasn't putting as much stock into your words as you were. Tkae care and try to have a good day.
Posted By: gForce Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/05/08 01:44 PM
I've been in Newcomers and have just started to lurk here.

I have the same frustrations in my own sitch. W still wants me to believe that she put a lot of effort in her attempt at reconciliation. But at the same time she never gave up OM ("hey, you can't say that - I stopped calling him for a couple of days!"). With OM always in the picture, she never really gave me or our M a chance to find a way back into her heart. She's moved out now and their R is in full bloom. Yet she wonders why I am angry at her?!? She has filed for D and I also have had enough.

As much as I love my wife, do I want to continue to fight for someone that has done what she has done to our lives? For a man that values commitment and M so much that he pursues a married woman and fights to break up her M? Her OM fantasy doesn't let her see that, and there is no rational way for anyone to convince her otherwise. She thinks that person will provide her with the love and understanding that she felt she was not getting from me? I think she'll eventually realize his sh** stinks as much as anyone's. No - my efforts are for me to move on now.

If that is where you are at, don't feel guilty about it. You need to look after yourself and your kids now. Keep an open mind if things change, but you'll be OK if they don't.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/07/08 04:50 PM
Hope4us, Neecy and gforce - Thanks so much for your support and kind words. They are really helpful right now as I'm feeling torn about what is going on now...its always something.

Well Saturday was damage control day. He came over to "talk", which translates into try and sleep with me so things can be better. Since OW steadfastly denies her tests are back , there will be none of that and since I have more respect for myself, there will definately be none of that. We ended up spending the day together between baseball games and him trying to make things ok.

Come Saturday night though, he is at the cardroom with OW. I got a 4am phonecall from him and he said that he feels like he and OW have "unfinished" business...would that be the baby she is carrying? I had asked him on Saturday to take us out of it. If he knew of a H, a W and an OP and the H told the W all the time that he was coming home, but CHOSE to spend all of his time with the OP then what did he see as the clear answer. He actually said, well that he probably wants to end up with the OP and I said, so how can't you see it with us? He really had no reply.

Sunday I didn't hear anything from him until about 3pm and then I wasn't very nice. I ended up sending him this text:

"The day to day is too hard. You don't love me enough to commit, so I'm back to being in limbo. Love is a choice, and marriage is a committment. Do with that what you will. I won't wait around for you to finish making me wish I was never in love with you for much longer. July was for you to work with a professional & really make some decisions. By yourself you choose not to tell me but you choose to be with her. If anyone has unfinished business, I would think its us, but whatever. Call me when you know something real..."
My phone has a QWERTY keyboard and I'm not afraid to use it.

I didn't hear from him until he called to tell the kids goodnight and at the end he said he would call me in the morning (he calls every work day at 5:30 to make sure I'm up) and I told him he didn't have to and he said that he wanted to. I told him that I appreciate it and he said, "Well, I won't call you if you don't want me to." I told him under the circumstances, in the situation we are in that it would probably be better if he didn't.

We are home sick today and he called at 6:30 to talk to S12 and he called back a little while ago to talk about going to a hockey game and I just kept my answers short and about the kids and he asked, "What, you don't want to talk?" I told him that I had said everything in my texts over the weekend and that this all just hurts too much to live in everyday and that as far as I could tell the decision has been made. We can talk about the kids, but the rest is too much. He said that he didn't agree that the decision had been made but that he would stop calling me...so here we are. LRT or just dark. We have a game tomorrow night, what do I do then?
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/07/08 07:04 PM
I think you act AS IF all is well. \:\)

You focus on having a good time at S/D's game. Be positive, SMILE, laugh often. Act happy \:\) . Say nothing to H that doesn't need to be said. NO R TALKS. NO DRAMA. Again, your focus should be on yourself and your children.

Enjoy watching your babies have fun while they grow! \:\)
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/07/08 07:56 PM
Ditto to GF. Keep things focused on the kids, be happy and relaxed, if he tries to bring up R stuff tell him you don't want to talk about any of it, avoid the drama. You will feel better for it.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/07/08 08:40 PM
Yep, I agree with GF and Michelle. BUT it's much easier said than done. Figure out a way to ensure you'll be able to act as if in his presence (and when you figure out the trick, let me know - I'm not having an easy time of it!).

Good luck with everything.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/07/08 09:05 PM
Agreed. However, let's remember what MWD says:

EASIER DONE THAN SAID.

Focus on your kids. Focus on being POSITIVE.

Just DO IT.

We know you CAN because that is what YOU have control over.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/08/08 03:30 PM
Thanks I needed that. He actually had to come over yesterday and thats pretty much what I did.

I really didn't have much to say, other than questions about the task at hand.

He didn't call me back last night or this morning...maybe he is hearing me.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/09/08 07:01 PM
Nope, not hearing me at all. He actually got mad at ME yesterday when he called me at work and I wasn't overjoyed to hear his voice...WTF?

We were both at S game last night and he acted like everything was just hunky dory and I just acted like he was another parent. I did get drawn into a R talk just a little and I made a couple of points and then said, I promised myself I wouldn't do this and so nevermind.

I got the rest of my results...all NEGATIVE (yay me! ) I asked him if he had gotten hers yet and all of a sudden hes Mr. GamePlayer again...trying to be cute. She says all of the tests are negative and as much as I want to believe her...NOT, I wondered if he could find out for sure and of course, I'm trying to start a fight. WHATEVER!!!! I'm just very frustrated and dealing with this alien is almost more than I can take.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/09/08 07:43 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
I'm just very frustrated and dealing with this alien is almost more than I can take.


It's more than anyone could take, grumpy. I don't know how you've managed to stay as composed as you have. I'm relieved to hear your tests were negative. Hope you find some joy today.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/09/08 10:16 PM
GFI I have decided to create some joy by actually doing a 180 and sticking to it.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/09/08 10:45 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
He actually got mad at ME yesterday when he called me at work and I wasn't overjoyed to hear his voice...WTF?


Sounds similar to my H. He gets all butt-hurt if I don't show the kind of level of enthusiasm he wants to see from me. To him, it means that I don't love him (he told me this).

So when my H calls or arrives home from work, even though sometimes it's a bit difficult after having detached so much over the last 3 years, I act cheerful, upbeat, and make him feel as if it's truly good to see or hear from him. The same way I would act as if a good friend called or came by to see me.

Even if/when you're feeling disappointed with H's recent choices/actions, you have to let it go and act AS IF it never happened. Right now, it's the only way to keep the peace, and if we can manage to make our Hs feel loved by us, then in return, we might be able to get a little of what we want from them.

Quote:
She says all of the tests are negative and as much as I want to believe her...NOT, I wondered if he could find out for sure and of course, I'm trying to start a fight. WHATEVER!!!!


In his mind, you're prying for information and getting into something that he doesn't want to talk about. He probably sees it as 'nagging', although we don't see it that way.

You're clean....YAY! .....so let it be. That's all that really matters. \:\) I would, however, insist on using protection if you become intimate with H again.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 06:01 PM
Journaling:

Came to work Friday and chest was tight and had a pain in my back where my lungs are (I get bronchitis everytime I get sick) so I headed out to the Medi-Center located at the hospital, couldn't get into my Dr. Right before I left I got a txt from H, wanting to know if I could get off an hour early as he wanted to take us (kids & me) to Horton Hears a Who. Sent a txt back saying I was going to the Dr. and that I would let him know what was up. I'm filling out paperwork and I get a nasty txt from H that says "Gonna Call back like last time?" I sent him back a txt that pretty much said "What" and then it was on, he said several mean things like I made him feel guilty about the movies and he was inviting me and when did I ever invite him to do stuff w/me, anytime there is an olive branch extended its him doing it, etc...and at the end of one particularly mean one - Goodbye! WTF? So after a couple of texts back and forth, I hit him with:

Goodbye it is then. We need to do some sort of settlement agreement or would prefer to consult with attorney's? I'm done being f#&$*d over by you. You don't want to work it out & only want what OW has to offer? Then you are free my friend to pursue your life as you choose.

So I get "I invite you to the movies and this is what I get in return?"

So after a few more txts where he did a complete 180, things settled down a bit and I spent 5.5 leisurely hours in the ER/Medi-Center while they did an EKG and all kinds of tests to then tell me that I am developing bronchitis, but I'm not sick enough to actually get any medicine...NICE! So I get out of there in time to pick up kids and meet H at the movies, where we had a really good time. I went over to MIL house with him and we hung out for awhile and it was nice. I left and then he called and met me to do some grocery shopping and because I'm an idiot, as I was leaving I asked him the following: "So, are we still being honest about things?"

H: "Yeah, why?"
M: "I was reading some journaling I've been doing throughout this whole thing and I noticed that you've said you were coming home twice now and its been when there was "something big" with OW. The first time, you took her to Universal Studios and were supposed to come home the next day and then you said on 3/14 that you were coming home and then 6 hrs later I find out shes pregnant, and it feels like you tell me that because it keeps me around. So is that why?"
H: "No, the first time, I was going to come home and I got scared because I wasn't sure it was over. The last time, I was coming home, I was just going to stop talking to her."
M: "So you didn't know she was pregnant before you told me that?"
H: "No, I was just going to be done."
M: "What about now?"
H: "I have to be nice to her..."

This is the part I'm confused about, he keeps saying that he needs to be "nice" to her and I don't know if its because of the $$ or because they are gambling partners or if I'm just delusional. Anyway, H wen't to MIL's house where DS and DD were and for the first time since he left, he actually spent the whole night just with them. I felt terrible and I called to tell my kids goodnight and he told me if I wanted him to come over or if I needed him that he would be right there... I had asked him to go have a drink with me and he refused, then said he had no plans. He then said that OW had invited him to go play cards at her friends house, but he had said he wasn't going anywhere and said that he didn't want to be a liar so he didn't go...

My friend Matt called me Saturday at DS baseball game and H was kinda snippy about it. Matt is a friend of mine and his D goes to school w/ my DS...Matt has a boyfriend, too and H knows this.
DS game ends at approx. 8:30 and H got a txt from OW and I saw his reply was "Almost Done" so when the game was over I was burnt. We all walked out to the parking lot together, but I was just making a bee-line for the car. H was talking to S about the game, S was mad he went from batting 4th to 7th... Anyway, H gets in his car and drives by and says "ILY" and I told him to go to hell, so he turns around and says "What?" I said, you heard me, go to hell... "I told you ILY" and I said, "Means so much now that you are going to hang with OW." So we go home get cleaned up and head to Matt's - H called DS at 9:00 wondering what we were doing and again at 9:45, didn't speak to me, but wanted to know what we were doing.
Invited him to dinner on Sunday and yesterday...he says I never invite him to do anything and we are all supposed to go to a hockey game and he might actually be willing to give us a Sat. night, which hasn't happened in FOREVER.

He was very willing to come over Sunday and help me with our dog too, even though I was an idiot and refused, he was really sweet and tried to be helpful.

So any thoughts on this sudden change of behavior?

Puppy, if you are out there, I would love your take on this crazy mess...

Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 07:40 PM
Hmmm, wow. Sounds like it all started off with a MAJOR miscommunication - him feeling like you were blowing him off or didn't really answer his question about the movie. Also seems to be showing some discontentment about time spent together - have you considered if one of his 5 Love Languages is Quality Time?

Sounds like perhaps a little touch of mystery combined with you showing your patience is not unlimited has him wondering/worried?

His lashing out might just be stress - whether work, OW, or self-induced guilt over the stitch.

As I am not as far along with my stitch and feel like a very novice DBer when confronted with this issue, I don't know what else I can add except (((Hugs)))
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 09:16 PM
Question - Do you want your H to come back because he wants to? Or would you prefer him to come back out of guilt?

Corey, I am not perfect either, and I have to tell you that there were many times when I got p*ssed and also told my H to 'go to he**'. Why did I do that? My guess is because I wanted him to feel guilty about what he was doing, I wanted him to feel as crappy as I did. After times like this, H would act nicer to me, do things for me, but you know what? It was soooo very wrong of me to behave like that. Sounds like you, and very possibly OW as well, are doing this just as I did.

Bottom line, if you want to save your M, this behavior will not help you achieve your goal. Drop the drama and leave the past behind. Move on for YOURSELF. Treat your H the same way you would treat a good friend.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 09:28 PM
GF, you are so right! I don't think I was trying to make him feel guilty, but it really hurt to have him tell me ILY and be on his way to be with his OW, I don't have the ability to think that way, so its hard for me to reconcile it in my head that he can.

Bottom line, I want him to be with me because he wants to be there, not out of obligation or as a "consolation" prize. We have been friends for 20 years and no matter what, I value the friendship, so I need to start being a better "friend". You are too right about OW as well, because H told me the last time we were at DD game she texted him and he didn't get right back to her and she was pissy and saying things like, "I guess you and Corey were having to good a time for you to respond." and other stuff like that, so he is getting it from her and I just need to chill out and enjoy the time I have with him when I'm with him and not focus on the negative, but the positive. I forget that I am luckier than some, that we actually do spend time together and talk everyday.

Thanks for keeping me in check. Sometimes I get so caught up in the details that I lose sight of the big picture. I appreciate your help and trust your wisdom on this subject.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 10:19 PM
GoingForward is so incredibly wise.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 10:39 PM
Yep, so I need to heed her wise advice.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/15/08 10:56 PM
Awww, thanks, ladies! \:\)

Nah, just been there, done that. I still lose sight of controlling myself and my R goals every now and then, but I am also very aware that if I don't keep myself composed and behave like a rational adult, I'm likely to fail in achieving my ultimate goal - a happier, healthier ME in addition to a happier, healthier M with my H.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 04:01 PM
H started R talk last night and was asking "what if" questions about coming home. He is not even close to the right headspace for me to consider it right now, but it was kind of a shock.

There were a few tense moments, but for the most part it was pretty good. He accused me at one point of "trying to lay down the law and that if I wanted to be with him, then that wouldn't work." My reply was that I was simply telling him what I would and wouldnt be able to accept and if that was a problem then it was his problem. At the end of the conversation that we didn't need to solve everything in 1 night and that it was a start...we'll see.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 04:17 PM
Interesting. We must never compromise on what we need from our spouses for a successful, happy marriage.

What's the status with the troll?
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 05:04 PM
Short, snarly, lives under a bridge...pretty much the same. Shes nasty, somethings just never change. I think that some of the shine is wearing off of that penny, but because of the situation it looks like she will be around for much longer than I would like.

Howz your day?
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Short, snarly, lives under a bridge...pretty much the same.

Howz your day?


I love your snarkiness, grumpy. My day is going OK. I've been a bit emotional and angry for the past few days. Trying to deal with that. I irritate myself when I feel this way because A LOT of other people are going through so much more turmoil. I'm seeing my IC at 11:00 today so hopefully he can help me snap out of my funk.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 05:44 PM
I also love the snarkiness. I need a better name for my H's OW/ex-OW whatever she is now - I feel left out since OneDay calls hers the aubergine and you have the troll!

Originally Posted By: girlfromipanema
Interesting. We must never compromise on what we need from our spouses for a successful, happy marriage.

Ain't that the truth! Now we just need to figure out how to get it!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 06:45 PM
GFI, I understand about your irritation, but be kind to yourself. You are going through a very rough patch, so be gentle with yourself.

Michelle, might I humbly suggest TAP? Tart Across the Pond (Like Hands Across America...but not the same)? The Seether? The Snag? I got a million of em'.

The troll is aptly name not only because of her physical form, but for her less than pleasant demeanor. I guess I could also call her Charles Barkley...the Round Mound of Rebound!

I make me laugh! If you want snarky, then I guess I'm your girl! Is that a bad thing?
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 07:10 PM
OMG, TAP?!? I LOVE IT!!!!!

The Round Mound of Rebound!!!!!! ROTFLMAO

It makes me laugh too. And we all need some good smiles!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/16/08 07:19 PM
TAP it is then! RMRB (round mound of rebound), it just came to me....

See Snarky works on some levels!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 03:29 PM
Strange happenings the last 2 days and could use some "insight." H is starting to ask about "coming home" and what would happen ifs...

I don't know if this is progress or another attempt to keep me around, but hes all over the place. One minute talking about being home and having a business relationship with OW, and then talking about "if" he comes home. So confusing, I don't know if he is just trying to continue to cake-eat or if hes really trying to get off of the fence. He told me last night that he really enjoys talking with me. I just don't get it...
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 04:15 PM
Well, as I am also getting the "what would happen ifs" I am hoping I can steal some advice from someone further along in the process.

But in the meanwhile, I'll just pass along what I have been trying to do - talk honestly when my H wants to discuss things, be supportive and validating of him, reassure him the door is open, keep my expectations low, hope for the best, and always keep the worst in the back of my mind but don't let the fear control me.

Time will tell. \:\) At this point, I think we can handle anything!
Posted By: water2moon Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 04:41 PM
Originally Posted By: MichelleLT


But in the meanwhile, I'll just pass along what I have been trying to do - talk honestly when my H wants to discuss things, be supportive and validating of him, reassure him the door is open, keep my expectations low, hope for the best, and always keep the worst in the back of my mind but don't let the fear control me.

Time will tell. \:\) At this point, I think we can handle anything!


This is what i need to do myself..I think I'll save this as a reminder..you sound so strong..Wish i could feel this way too..Oddly enough I felt stronger when i threw him out , at least then I knew he was with OW, now it's the what if's that are killing me..
Posted By: karen43 Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 05:00 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Strange happenings the last 2 days and could use some "insight." H is starting to ask about "coming home" and what would happen ifs...



Grumpy, I don't really have any advice but glad to hear it sounds like good things are happening in your R. I do think sometimes our H's are just mixed up and don't entirely know what they themselves want, so it can be confusing of course! I think michelle had great advice, be supportive & keep the door open but expectations low, and don't rush things, a slow pace is probably good from what I read here. Keep us posted!!! \:\) Karen
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 05:11 PM
Originally Posted By: water2moon
Oddly enough I felt stronger when i threw him out , at least then I knew he was with OW, now it's the what if's that are killing me..
It is sooooo hard not to think about it. Some days I feel like anything is possible, others I wonder if this could ever be worth it, and most days I am convinced I am just a stubborn, crazy woman.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 06:38 PM
Those are all the range of emotions I go through at least once a day. You take 1 step forward and a couple to the side and at least two backward. Its like the HokeyPokey for the directionally challenged.
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 06:47 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Its like the HokeyPokey for the directionally challenged.
ROTF LMAO!!!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 08:05 PM
Well, its the truth right?

I just hate having to keep guarding my heart against the person I love with all of it. Sometimes I wonder if I really want him back because it will be better or if I just want to win. I mean I know I want things to be better, but a part of me is terrified he will come back and I'll look at him and go "Ick, I really didn't want you back." Is that bad? Does anyone else ever feel this way? I guess its kinda stupid to even be thinking like this when that is not a reality, but the "what if's" get your hopes up. I'm going to have to keep working on just taking it easy and just keeping up the "friendship" portion, that seems to be what is working in my favor right now. Not talking to him only seems to drive him that much further away.

Sometimes its hard to have conversations with him, as what he tells me is brutal and a blow to my ego, but part of me feels good that we can even still talk. He told me last night that he enjoys talking to me, I don't know if thats a positive or a negative, but I guess if he needs to talk and will talk to me, I should do it.

This sucks....I'm going to the gym
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 08:14 PM
I have those same doubts as well. Sometimes I go over to the success stories just for proof that the alien sometimes really does go away and it's possible to restore your M.

You have some amazing detachment to have those conversations and still manage to talk. This is something I very much need to work on, but don't have much of a chance to practice either lol.

Have a good workout!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 11:00 PM
I guess its sort of a desperate attempt at some sort of intimacy and closeness. I am also pretty much the only friend he has to talk to, kinda sad really.

I just wish it was easier than this. He says stuff sometimes, that just make me wonder WTH are you thinking, how can you say that to ME of all people, but I try not to react that way simply because it negates the "friendship" and reminds him I'm the "W" and the "authority figure." I got that book, Not Jut Friends and it is full of great information. I suggested to him that it would benefit him more than it would me and he really didn't seem to like it very much, but did listen to a couple of the points it makes and seemed to actually agree.

I'm not always able to detach when we have these talks, but lately I have been making a bigger effort to not cry or get "emotional" it makes the talks more productive. We were talking earlier today and I told him that if he came home that we would have work to do and his response was, "I won't have to work when I come home. I don't see our relationship as work." I replied that maybe we should have worked on it before, but that I wanted things to change for the better and he agreed, so anyway...its moment to moment, but he is forced to spend the evening with me because DD & DS have back-to-back games tonight. I did find out that he has been avoiding seeing me this week because OW left hickeys on his neck...so gross! That is just so High School! I did get a bit pissy about it, partially because I'm a jealous bitch, but also because...um, HELLO! You have 2 kids that know we don't live together and have bruises on your neck, explain that one Matlock! WHATEVER! I just told him that he needed to show a little more class and respect, as that is just tacky. NOT my finest 5 minutes , but he actually apologized for it, I was shocked. \:o

And so I wait...
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 11:09 PM
Wow, Corey! Things are looking a little brighter over here! Many positives.

Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
I'm going to have to keep working on just taking it easy and just keeping up the "friendship" portion, that seems to be what is working in my favor right now. Not talking to him only seems to drive him that much further away.


I think this is a GREAT idea. \:\)

If I'm not mistaken, and I sincerely apologize if I am, wasn't it your H who said that you didn't "pursue him enough"? If this is so, how about giving him a call or even just a TM every once in a while to say "hi", "how r u today?", or "Such a nice day! Hope its a great one 4 u!"? Wondering if he'd appreciate that.

If you and the kids are going out to dinner/movie/etc, perhaps invite him along sometimes. I think Michelle was spot on when she said your H's LL could possibly be QT. Seems like he wants to feel included in your activities.

Try it out for a while....a week, two weeks....and see how it goes. Do not expect anything though. Keep things light, very low-key, and with no expectations whatsoever.

Your H IS still up on that fence. NOW is the time for you to BE the better view.

;\)
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 11:14 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
I guess its sort of a desperate attempt at some sort of intimacy and closeness. I am also pretty much the only friend he has to talk to, kinda sad really.
I think I am also in this position occasionally with my H. In a way, it is a good place to be - an EA of sorts.

Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
NOT my finest 5 minutes , but he actually apologized for it, I was shocked. \:o
Well, sounds like he was actually receptive to the boundary setting! I'm glad he felt guilty about it. He's not as deep in the fog as before and is actually halfway considering his effect on other people!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 11:41 PM
GF, I have been doing that more and more. I asked him over for dinner Sunday and Monday night. I now know he didn't show Monday because he was Cpt. Hickey, but I made the offer and didn't get pissy when he didn't come either night. I just told him that I was making dinner and he was welcome to come have some if he wanted to. He declined both times, but I think was actually glad that I asked. I never thought about it as a form of pursuit, but I think you are right. I have been trying to do little things, like on the way to the game I will offer to get him a soda when I get mine, get him a bag of sunflower seeds, etc...

I have also txtd him a couple of times just asking stuff like, what're you up to today, etc... He sometimes reacts like, why do you ask, what do you think I'm doing and I respond with "just making conversation." or something like that, not checkin' up on you, just saying Hi. He is taking all of us to a hockey game Saturday night and that is the 1st Saturday night he has even offered to spend with us, let alone me since before he left. Baby Steps, no expectations.

Michelle, being in this situation is sort of an EA, but isn't it strange to be in that position with your own spouse? My H actually made a crack last week that I could be his mistress, that he thinks I would make a great mistress...Huh?

I think some of the fog has lifted just because of the pregnancy. That is a reality smack and I know he is really having a hard time accepting his age. I guess some of this is a MLC on top of everything else. He gets sucked back into the fog bank pretty easily, but is still clear enough to know that things can't be this way forever. He has shown more concern for how his actions affect other people lately, but I'm still very leery of putting too much stock into that, as it can change in the blink of an eye. I'm just going to keep on doing what seems to be working and see where this road leads.

No matter what, I know I will come out of this a changed woman. I think it will be for the better too, because strangely enough I feel lighter than I have in a long time. I am taking time to loosen up and let go of somethings that I have found out, really just don't matter all that much...

Like the Wicked Witch of the West says, "All in good time my pretty, all in good time!"
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 11:49 PM
Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Cpt. Hickey
ROTF LMAO! You come up with the BEST one-liners!

Originally Posted By: grumpyeby
Michelle, being in this situation is sort of an EA, but isn't it strange to be in that position with your own spouse? My H actually made a crack last week that I could be his mistress, that he thinks I would make a great mistress...Huh?
Yeah, isn't it though? I feel in a similar position too both on the emotional and physical level at the moment. It's something I haven't managed to wrap my brain around yet. A great mistress? That's a random comment for him to make lol. Seems somewhat positive though, so *shrugs* just smile and nod lol.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/17/08 11:56 PM
Thanks, they just come to me. Other people can draw, sing or do other wonderful things, I have the ability to make smart comments at the drop of a hat. Is there a muse for that?

The mistress thing was kinda weird and I should have said something cute, but I didn't. It really caught me off guard and I'm not sure if its positive or not, but I'm not going to obsess over it either. Whatever!

The physical side has not been a problem for us during this time, if anything its made it better, which is so twisted in and of itself, but its the truth. Its the emotional reconnection that we have lacked, so thats what I need to strive for.

Thanks again ladies, you are so helpful to me!
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 05:19 PM
Well it was bound to happen. He was really stand-offish and distracted last night. Looking for a fight. By the end of DS game he was in a back and forth txt convo with the Troll and the 3 of us (me DD and H) were sitting on a blanket watching DS play. I kept looking at him, not saying anything, just giving him "the look" as I feel its highly inappropriate and disrespectful to be doing that in front of either of us. He told me to turn around and worry about myself and I replied, try not to be so obvious then. Anyway, as I expected...withdrawl, retreat into the fog bank! He called this a.m. and was pretty much a jerk as well, so I am just irritated, but I know its just part of the game.

My kids have IC today so at least I get out of the office early, so theres a positive here and thats what I need to keep the focus on.

So...Hokey Pokey it is (I hate that damn song.)

Michelle: I thought you might get a kick out of this, I changed his ringtone last night to Avril Lavigne's Girlfriend - its just the beginning (Hey, hey, you, you, I don't like your girlfriend, I think you need a new one!) I changed it back to a diffent one, but it amused me...maybe that should be his ringback tone! I'm such a child...
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 05:27 PM
LMAO. You are right, that does amuse me. Other options would be "Before He Cheats" by Carrie Underwood, "Picture To Burn" by Taylor Swift, "Settlin" by Sugarland...hmm what else...I guess I'm stuck on country today lol.
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 05:42 PM
No Sugarland...her ringback tone is the 3rd verse of "Stay", oh make me puke.

I was thinking about the Lady Antebellum song "Love Don't Live Here" if things don't work out in July. That is just a great song.

Its the little things
Posted By: MichelleLT Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 05:55 PM
OOH YES! I love that song too.

Although my current favorite is Brad Paisley "I'm Still A Guy" because it soooo reminds me of my H lol. Well, the normal H, not the alien.

Whatever makes us smile right?
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 06:32 PM
What is it Isaac Hayes says? Daaaamn Right!
Posted By: Snow White Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 06:36 PM
Funny last night in the car I was singing and I started on "Did I shave my legs for this" which used to be one of my favourites because I thought it was a perfect fit. Then I thought, Hmm maybe our spouses aren't the only ones who rewrite history because I keep thinking everything was great until bam this happened in Dec. If so why did I indentify with that song so much?
Posted By: Sugar and Spice Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/18/08 08:17 PM
Yeah, I resemble that too. I mean I know things weren't great, but I guess I never realized they were this bad either. I just can't take sole responsibility though. He chose to betray our marriage and continue to do so, not me, nor will I ever.

I do think though that somedays I tend to think it was better/worse than it really was, depending on my mood.

Thanks for coming by Neecy.
Posted By: girlfromipanema Re: Hanging in there.... - 04/19/08 01:50 PM
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