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Posted By: karen43 Trying to be patient - 01/31/08 06:41 PM
Theoden, I got locked out and you gave me the idea for the title for this 2nd series of posts. I am going to focus on working towards patience, as that is my weakness right now. I want results in weeks rather than months (H wants to file for divorce this summer so I probably won't have years). It is not quite as easy for me to have that attitude oh, well, no big deal whether he stays or leaves, b/c after 22 years together and the children, I still do love him. I guess I should work towards that attitude???

H did come home a bit late last night, and the OW was texting a few minutes later. I think she is even more obsessed than him if that is possible. H did at least wait until he was on the porch to text her back and spent all night on the porch at least until after I went to bed to come back in the house. So I guess the OW is healthy again or they've made up or whatever, cause it appears they are back together. So I didn't show any emotion or anything but was a little disappointed of course, even though I expected that was going to happen. Per DB, I've actually still been keeping up my cheerful, positive attitude and cracking lots of jokes and dancing around as I have been lately. (I need to send a thank you letter to the Prozac manufacturer :)!!!) Karen43
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/03/08 04:27 PM
Have had some positives lately and some negative I guess...I fell into some R talking. I had surgery Friday, and was worried that H would drop me off and disappear. I basically asked him if that was his plan as he has been trying to act as if we are divorced already even though we aren't for the past few months. Then H said, well we would be separated but I can't afford it, I'll have more money when we are divorced. And I said do you think so? (Because the divorce attorney I saw said that probably isn't true he will have to pay me permanent alimony, extra custody, the kids have special needs, etc. & she seemed to think he will have less money after the divorce, and said he would be an idiot to divorce me financially speaking.) I didn't say any of that of course. Then he asked well do you want me to move out? And I said no, you know how I feel about you (code for I still love him without saying so) and he said yes, he does, and I said the kids obviously are happy to live with their dad as well. I think that was the first time he realized maybe that he does have a choice (has been making a choice about living with us), and maybe me too.

Then I dodged a couple R bullets by saying something like because we have 3 in the relationship (including the OW) we can't discuss something else in a fair way and another question by saying we could have the attorneys handle that, all stuff I've read here on this board! We ended the discussion by laughing actually and in a friendly way, so even though it was probably not good that I started it cause I was nervous about him ditching me, it ended well.

Then before and after the surgery, which went well, H was wonderful! The nurses had a huge exam they were studying for, so they disappeared down the hall most of the time, and every time I needed them H would go down and find the nurse for me. He only left once to take one break which I thought for sure would be a marathon texting session with the OW or something, but he went and got a soda and came right back a minute later! He was truly wonderful! When we got home, he got Pizza Hut which I had been dreaming about all day b/c I couldn't eat all day and my surgery was like 3:00pm and then brought me medicine every 4 hours. He was great! I did thank him for that, too!

Saturday, he usually spends hours, 4 or 5 with the OW, and he only spent about 30 minutes with her. I am thinking she either didn't show or they had a fight? H stopped in to give me my pain meds before he left and spent the rest of the day with us. He did spend some time working on his porch!, but did watch Pirates of the Caribbean 2 with the family also.

Sunday he usually has been meeting with the OW in the morning for a few hours and not going to church for the past few months. Today he didn't meet with her at all, then took the kids to church, totally on his own, not asked by me at all. I am still a little out of it after the surgery so am home with that. I am encouraged both by his not seeing the OW and even more happy by his going to church.

The only blemish in this is that H is still talking about divorce, even a little bit more than usual it seems like, and wants to take my D8 to a play this afternoon without me, that he knows I would enjoy as well. I guess I need to keep DBing, GALing, etc. Does anyone else have any advice or comments on recent developments in my life? Oh, my audition is tomorrow for the play that I want to try to be in which is "Mame", so hopefully I can limp on over to the theatre tomorrow and try to do my best on that! (I guess the dance auditions are out for me, but they were anyway since I have two left feet!!!)
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Trying to be patient - 02/03/08 04:46 PM
Sue,

I think you handled it perfectly. Stay consistent in that, and I think you may see it yield some fruit.

Oh, and I think your husband needs to get a better divorce attorney. Any man who think he'll be better off financially after a divorce, is drinking some pretty serious Kool-Aid.

Choc.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/03/08 05:01 PM
Originally Posted By: chocolateeyes
Oh, and I think your husband needs to get a better divorce attorney. Any man who think he'll be better off financially after a divorce, is drinking some pretty serious Kool-Aid.

Choc.


Thanks, Choc. I think he saw an attorney just once for an hour, typical consulation, and they are friends, so probably spent half their time chatting. I think H also probably heard what he wanted to hear. It was right before he began the affair and I think he wanted the validation that it was OK to have the affair.

H has a lot of ideas that divorce is some wonderful thing: H will have more money; I'll meet someone wonderful after the divorce; the kids will be happy, etc. I guess it makes him feel better about the affair/divorce. The weird, ironic thing is when he was 14 and his parents divorced he was actually suicidal himself so deep down I think he knows that's not true. Karen43
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/03/08 05:04 PM
Quote:
H has a lot of ideas that divorce is some wonderful thing: H will have more money; I'll meet someone wonderful after the divorce; the kids will be happy, etc. I guess it makes him feel better about the affair/divorce. The weird, ironic thing is when he was 14 and his parents divorced he was actually suicidal himself so deep down I think he knows that's not true.


This must be textbook, because H has said the same thing, and watched his parents go through a nasty divorce themselves.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/03/08 10:23 PM
Well, so much for feeling positive. I have had a horrible afternoon! H went out this afternoon to see "friends" with a bag of party stuff like chips and stuff-I assume the OW is part of the party or he'll see her later.

I talked to my brother who is slowly recovering, sounding good but tired, so I was glad about that. Then talked to a good friend who thinks I should divorce & told me she and her H suspected my H of cheating 10 years ago. My H kept making phone calls at a restaurant across from our hotel, and they think H has had more than just his current girlfriend. H has always made me think this was his first girlfriend, but now I am not sure.

So what do I do now? Just sit on this info? If it is true, it was 10 years ago. Still, I was thinking H is going through a MLC and doing this affair partially because of my depression, but maybe he has been doing this throughout our marriage and I just didn't realize it. Just really, really feeling depressed right now. Like how could I be so stupid not to have realized and what's wrong with me that he has to have other women and all those other awful thoughts I guess you all have had too...Karen
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/04/08 02:28 AM
Quote:
Like how could I be so stupid not to have realized and what's wrong with me that he has to have other women and all those other awful thoughts I guess you all have had too.


Yes, I still have these thoughts. I don't like what you wrote about your depression either. Your H had no reason to have an A, none. He should have helped you through your depression, or even left and divorced you before committing adultery. What he has done is about him, not you. You are not to blame. You might be to blame (I know I am) for some of the issues before the A, but that's where the blame ends.

I wouldn't bring up 10 yrs ago, at least not now.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/04/08 03:55 PM
Yeah, I didn't say anything about the 10 year old thing. And H has always insisted he hasn't cheated until now, so I don't know why he would change his story now, and don't think I want to hear that anyway if it is true.

Last night after spending 3 hours with the OW, he came home to watch the Superbowl. I spent an hour or so cleaning and paying bills, and then sat down for 20 minutes to watch the last part of the Super Bowl with H. He very cleverly (he thought) put a blanket down so he could text her without me seeing, but of course his Blackberry was going off every minute (buzz, buzz) with her texts. He must think I'm an idiot! After a few minutes of this I figured this out and was upset of course, yet again he is a jerk about this same issue; I think it's been 2 months now at least, and I left saying I was going to bed.

Then halfway there, I said no I don't think I'm going to let this slide again. I went back and said loudly, "Thanks for your kindness and courtesy and not emailing your OW in front of me!" Oh, but that's right, You're not a gentleman so you do email her in front of me!" "Do you think I deserve to be treated like **it because you are treating me like **it!" and I stormed out and heard him saying no, no as I slammed the door and went to bed. He came into my room and said "I apologize" 10 minutes later (after he finished texting the OW I'm sure) to which I said nothing b/c I'm sure he'll keep doing it! and he left. (At this point I am still so mad at him, I don't think I want to see him for a long time.)

Tonight is the audition night for the play the kids and I are trying out for, and I am just hoping I can get a part, even a small one, not like most people I imagine, but so I can spend 6 weeks away from my crazy, jerky husband, and if I don't get a part, will try to volunteer for a behind-the-scenes-job, which will keep me still probably busy on the weekends and when the play begins and I will try to get as involved as possible.

I always read those chapters in the DB and DR books and said I would never be one of those spouses that wouldn't want to make the marriage work if the cheating spouse wanted to, but now I can see how that could happen!!!Karen43
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/05/08 01:00 AM
I would have walked away with the first bzzzz of that phone. I have serious trigger issues with 'vibrate' on phones now. I wouldn't have stayed there after ONE message. What a jerk!!! I am so sorry.

Good luck tonight!!! \:\) \:\) \:\) Break a leg... (is that right? lol)
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/05/08 02:30 PM
Thanks, lwb! I was lucky I didn't break a leg probably! It turns out they wanted everybody to DANCE, sing, and act! I had that surgery Friday and the doctor did say I could try a little exercise Monday and see how it felt, but I don't think she meant do an hour of dancing like I wound up doing! It was like kicking, showgirl type stuff, the Charleston, etc. OMG! And as mentioned before I have two left feet...Luckily, it is intended to be a comedy! I was nervous during the singing part cause I had never done that before, but I feel good about the acting/reading part and did pretty good at least on that one part! Yeah, I can read!!! They said they are going to call Wed. and let us know if we have a part or not. In case I didn't get one, I signed up for lighting? they said I could do that they thought even without any experience, and set decoration, which is painting the sets, so I should keep busy with this play a bit even if I don't get a part so you can see I am working on my GALing.

I had so much fun though! It was so fun to spend 3 hours just basically playing around with fun people. I knew half of them from a play my H and D8 had done 2 months ago, and I spent half the time laughing. Everyone there is nice and good people (unlike my H lately)! So I have my fingers crossed I will get a part! But prepared in case I don't also...My daughter tried as well btw, but it turns out there are no little girl parts, so I am worried she won't get one, so have prepared her for that. My S14 chickened out at the last minute even though there are several boy parts and not many boys showed up either!
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 02/06/08 03:01 PM
LWB,

Never thought you'd hate a cell phone, would ya?

The ring tone to my wife's phone gets under my skin now.
Posted By: theotherhalf Re: Trying to be patient - 02/06/08 03:05 PM
OH YEA!!!!

the phone is H's biggest connection to OW and has been all along. I HATE IT!!!!
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/06/08 04:19 PM
Well, I think I figured out why H and the OW only met for half hour on Saturday. H had his annual job review on Friday afternoon. His boss wants him to work later until 7:00 or 7:30 which was when he was meeting with the OW. So I figured out he must have told her Sat. and they had a fight over that. They will only be able to meet Thurs. nights (when he used to go to AA) and the weekends. Then she texted him right after and must have decided it would be better to have him at least that much rather than nothing. But at least it is putting some strain on the relationship I am hoping. (Now I almost feel bad that I have ever made a critical remark about his workaholic boss because maybe this could help my sitch?) I know I shouldn't be analyzing, but that's how my brain works, it's tough for me to stop that!

The ironic part to me is he told me how understanding and supportive OW was about his boss and job when he told me about her. I am only about 98% supportive of his job: the past 2 years put a strain on our marriage, he was often having to work 2 jobs, his and filling in for absent employees, his boss and other supervisors, so he was stressed out and cranky; he always is having to reply to his boss' emails evenings and weekends. During my birthday dinner last year, he spent much of it on the phone with a legal "crisis" from work talking to different employees and emailing (and I didn't complain at all). This is a govt. job which pays half of private practice btw so I don't think normally it's supposed to be so much work/time.

So OW is not any more supportive than me when the boss' decisions affect her life of course! I think my H is delusional if he thinks he will find a W or gf that is more supportive, tolerant, and understanding than me and I think I have proved that this past few months with all the stuff I have put up with!!!
Posted By: karen43 Re: trying to be patient - 02/06/08 04:51 PM
I have a question. I just got the bank statement for the last month. Every Friday, H has been taking out about $120 to $160 in cash, I believe for the hotel rooms for he and the OW since they are both married with kids they have to do that. He uses the ATM card for everything (like restaurants every day) so I can see the cash was not used for anything else. That's adding up quite a bit.

What to do about that? The lawyer I saw said to keep any records like that. Should I just keep these and do nothing & not say anything. I guess I theoretically could get reimbursed after the divorce I think according to state law here, but I don't know that he'll have enough cash to do that. Maybe that will help me work out the home schooling though, because that $500 a month will just about pay for the home schooling that he doesn't think we can afford (yeah, but he can afford hotel bills for the OW)!
Posted By: ntl Re: trying to be patient - 02/06/08 04:55 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43


What to do about that? The lawyer I saw said to keep any records like that. Should I just keep these and do nothing & not say anything.


From what I gather from your story, you'd like your M to work out. However, there's the possibility that your H won't come to his senses. If so, you'll want to be prepared with the information you've been gathering. If you're looking to save your marriage, I would save these records and say nothing. Hopefully, you'll never have to use them.

Just my two cents.

ntl
Posted By: karen43 Re: trying to be patient - 02/06/08 05:07 PM
[quote=ntl
From what I gather from your story, you'd like your M to work out. However, there's the possibility that your H won't come to his senses. If so, you'll want to be prepared with the information you've been gathering. If you're looking to save your marriage, I would save these records and say nothing. Hopefully, you'll never have to use them.


ntl[/quote]

That's pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking. You're right, I am trying to save the marriage, and getting into fights about this probably won't help and I don't think would change his behavior either, and probably make it harder to track the records in the future too I just realized. But I am going to save the statements and keep checking them too!!!
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/08/08 03:26 PM
I have some good news! I got a part, actually 2 parts in the play I tried out for! A supporting role as Mrs. Upson, and a cameo role as a Dance Teacher where I have to do some crazy dancing apparently (in Mame) and I'm in the chorus.

I am shocked too, b/c when we had our 1st rehearsal last night the others had Theatre degrees or said they had been in plays since they were 4, so I was the only one that had not been in a play! So I feel maybe a little like What did I get myself in for: with the whole singing, dancing, and acting? But it will definitely keep me 100% busy over the next 2 months which is great and what I wanted.

I also have noticed H doing some nice things for me lately, like yesterday when he thought I was sleeping he came in and adjusted the little heater in my room I use b/c he thought it wasn't right (our 100 year old house is freezing when cold!). And when I was using the car yesterday for errands, he had pulled it in backwards for pulling in supplies, and yesterday, he pulled it out for me so I would have an easier time getting out of the driveway. Those are caring things he also really hasn't done for me before, so I thought maybe they were signs of progress, and signs that my DB'ing have paid off.

But then, more rollercoaster, as H told me last night he was going to be going this weekend with the OW on a weekend trip! I didn't say anything just left and slammed the door and went to bed as it was 11 (very mature of me!.) So I guess those signs of progress I thought I was seeing are just my imagination, or am I guilty of being impatient as Theoden has warned me about? Can someone comment on this and give me someone else's perspective? For some reason it is so easy to see what is going on in someone else's life, but at least for me, I have tunnel vision about my own life for some reason! Karen43
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/08/08 07:31 PM
OUCH to the weekend trip. I am so sorry!!! He is very confused, doing nice things for you (guilt? still cares? who knows...) but actually taking a trip with another woman while married. And just to tell you about it. My heart hurts for you. Would he move out if you asked him to?
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/08/08 07:46 PM
We have discussed it a few times, and he seems undecided about it. He gives lame reasons as to why he hasn't moved out and really only that he thinks he will have more money after we divorce which obviously isn't true b/c our income will be almost half. Or he will ask me if I want him to move out and he knows full well that I will say no b/c I don't want him to. So I really don't think he wants to move out, but if I asked him to to or ordered him out he might go then as a matter of pride or maybe he wouldn't go just to thwart me b/c he's a control freak so I don't know what would happen actually. Do you think I should ask him to?

Btw, our discussions of him moving out and the nice things he's been doing for me, the way we've been getting along: laughing and joking all the time and lots of eye contact btw, I think I have been getting some mixed signals from him. Then afterwards, esp. after we have been getting along really well or he did those nice things is right when he will do something outrageous like text the OW in front of me (he says so I won't have hope that we aren't getting a divorce) and now the weekend trip after we have had a wonderful week together. When he told me about the trip he said, I'm going away for the weekend with her because we are going to be getting divorced; almost like he is doing this to convince me, but I am starting to think more and more that maybe he is actually trying to convince himself about the divorce and not me! Do you think that could be right or that is something I just want to be seeing? Please be honest; I can take it (you know I can!) Karen43
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 03:59 PM
I know I'm going to get blasted for this but I already know I made mistakes yesterday DBing. H and I and the kids went out to Pizza Hut at his suggestion(I think H was feeling guilt over the trip he is taking with the OW this weekend b/c normally I cook).


Had a great time there, laughing and talking, and on the way back, we were chatting about his job, which pre-affair he wouldn't do with me, I would try to fix things or be more critical of H's type-A boss, now I just talk as a friend and am more detached so we had a friendly chat. Then H out of the blue right after that said Have you been working on acceptance of our divorce with your counselor? I said something like well, you shouldn't worry about me, you should just be focused on your own counseling. And that's all I said.

Thinking later (which right there I probably should not have done) I sent H an email (You know how I like to write and I copied and pasted it here: In my counseling sessions my counselor has spent a good amount of every session, there have only been 3 so far, but one of her main goals seems to be to convince me that I would be very happy if I am not married to you so I think you should be not worried at all. She is definitely trying to get me to accept divorce. But we have also talked about my childhood & parents' marriages & how we replay that in our marriages, my brother's brain tumor, the play,co-dependency, etc.. I've only had 3 sessions, so you can only expect me to have so much acceptance so fast and we've been married 18 years! (Yes, I know I need to work on the acceptance area as you pointed out tonight, but internally I am changing about that, even though you might not be able to see it.) I think I've done a great job with my therapy and working on myself and most people would be amazed at what I've accomplished in many areas pretty quickly but you seem to focus more on my negatives rather than positives--maybe a big reason why you weren't/aren't happy with me?

Then he emailed me back something like: Yes, I think you've done a great job, but I just wanted you to know where we still are.

Then H threw about 2 loads of clothing into the laundry room that he had in his car from hotel visits with the OW that he wanted to take on the trip this weekend with her, and I stayed up until almost 1am washing them and the other load or so that was in there, so he could have his favorite clothes. I know I should have just gone to bed at my usual time, but something in me just wanted him to have his favorite shirts and everything, even though he treats me like dirt. I obviously have a screw loose (or 2) and need therapy for a very, very long time!!!!
Karen43
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 04:29 PM
Karen,
You did his laundry for him! No way would I have done that!! If he wanted it, he could have done it. Especially knowing what he would be doing this weekend. This weekend with OW is totally wrong. You are still married. Your H is so disrespectful of you. That makes me so mad for you!

We all know our own limits, and I put up with a lot when my Hs A was still going on, but if he had announced he was taking a trip with her while still in our house, his crap would have been on the lawn when he got home!

Honestly, it does not sound like your H wants your M. If I were you I would take steps to protect yourself and your kids. DB for you and them, not him. You deserve someone who will respect you and treat you respect, too.

My H, too, spent lots of $$ on OW while the A was going on. After I found out about it, I figured up, on average what he was spending and was SHOCKED! Definitely keep track of what you can.

Congrats on getting the parts in the play.

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 04:47 PM
Originally Posted By: JoieDeVivre
Honestly, it does not sound like your H wants your M. If I were you I would take steps to protect yourself and your kids. DB for you and them, not him. You deserve someone who will respect you and treat you respect, too.



I know he has said he wants a divorce at the end of the year, but then he also has not moved out of the house so I think there is part of him that is fence-sitting or he could be in an apartment now instead of getting hotels, and we actually are getting along great 99% of the time, but you are right, he totally treats me with disrespect because of this affair.

I would assume if he is still with the OW he will file for divorce this summer, or if they breakup H might want to work on our marriage I think. And we would have to do a lot of counseling about the way he has treated me! But in DR it says that most affairs only last 6 months or so, so I am hoping that maybe their relationship will not last, because I still do love him, and he knows that, although I never tell him so of course.

In re: to protection, I have seen an attorney and am keeping the financial records, so am doing what I can about that. That should help me in court if it comes to that.Karen43
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 05:12 PM
Karen,

You know your sitch better than anyone else, even though it is sometimes difficult to find the degree of objectivity needed to assess things clearly.

They say you will know, without a doubt, when it is over and is not going to work. Until then, hang in there, keep GAL and build up your PMA.

Blessings.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
Oh, btw, I ended the R emails with H by sending him back his comment on the "I just wanted you to know where we still are."
and said Well, I'm still in (our town), but I don't know where you are???(cause he's on the trip) So that ended all R talk!he emailed back ha ha funny or something

So basically does everyone seem to think my situation is hopeless? Most everyone that has posted here seem to think: H wants the marriage over or the comments seem pretty negative. I post a lot of negative stuff about H, but honestly 95% of the time we are friendly and laughing and get along great which I do try to post as well, then he will do something outrageous to convince me, (but I think also himself), or both that we will be getting divorced. Which I think is weird that you have to be convincing yourself or your spouse that divorce is happening by purposely acting rude (he says). Karen43
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 07:16 PM
Quote:
and we actually are getting along great 99% of the time, but you are right, he totally treats me with disrespect because of this affair.


Getting along great, when he is HOME...not out spending weekends with OW. That makes me mad.

I think there is always hope for any situation like this. My H has said things in the past that he 'takes' back now, but he still wants out. I believe this now, even though he hasn't taken steps to move out/get an atty. He is here for the kids, and to be with them until the very end. Not for me.

Doing his laundry? Wanting his favorite shirts for his adultery?? Karen43....what would you tell a friend that did this? Wishing him to be safe? Yes? Helping him pack for a trip with OW, when you are still married? No.

Take care. By the way, CONGRATS on the play!!!
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 09:28 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
So basically does everyone seem to think my situation is hopeless? Most everyone that has posted here seem to think: H wants the marriage over or the comments seem pretty negative.


Karen,
Every sitch is different. And, what each of us is willing to take or put up with or how much patience we have is different, too. Only you can make that decision. And if that time comes, you'll know it.

They do say most A's burn out after a few months. You still have some time with the house. If you want to give it all you have until that time, then go for it. It's up to you when to throw in the towel.

If you're getting along pretty well, that's good. But for him to blatantly announce he was off this weekend with OW is a horrible thing to do to you. I hope I didn't come off too strong before, that really made me mad! If you're ok with it, fine. But if not, perhaps you can consider setting up some boundaries with him. You've already talked about him texting OW in front of you. Just a thought...

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/09/08 10:55 PM
Originally Posted By: JoieDeVivre
If you're ok with it, fine. But if not, perhaps you can consider setting up some boundaries with him. You've already talked about him texting OW in front of you. Just a thought...

Joie


I'm fine with it once, or maybe even twice. But not on a regular basis, and I don't think it's appropriate for the kids to have a dad that's doing that on a regular basis. I don't think H's dad and I know for sure my dad would never have done that!!!

I am going to talk to my counselor this Thursday about all of this b/c this happened after our last session and get her input also, but I think if he is planning to do this again, I will probably have to ask him to move out, which I really wanted to avoid. But he just keeps getting worse and worse, next he'd probably be having her sleepover or something! That is kind of what I've been thinking. Any thoughts on this? Karen43
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 02:47 AM
Karen,

A boundary is not a boundary if you're OK with its crossing once or twice. It's like telling your kids "Ok now, I'm going to get REALLY mad if I have to tell you this again!" and then they take you seriously on the third time. Any parent can get them to take you seriously on the FIRST try, if that's your parental expectation of your child.

I don't mean to treat your husband like a child, but a boundary is a boundary. Only you know where to draw them, but I would draw them in such a place where crossing them even ONCE brings a negative consequence.

Just my two cents.

- Choc.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 03:58 AM
Choc eyes, you are right, I need to set boundaries and enforce them consistently which I have not done. I have to admit I was pretty stunned with the whole weekend trip and did not have any plan in place. This is probably a stupid question, but what kind of negative consequences do you think would be appropriate for this? I mean I use them all the time with my kids, but taking away TV time or computer time probably isn't going to work with my H!!!

What would you suggest? As you know, the 2 problems I've had so far now have been H texting OW and now his weekend trip. Keep in mind my sitch is much different than yours as I am a sahm and he is a lawyer. Karen43
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 04:09 AM
Karen,

That's always difficult to answer for someone else. If it were ME, the next time he did it, I think his SIM card would mysteriously disappear from the phone, and the battery contacts would suddenly stop working because it's funny how that clear nail polish doesn't really conduct electricity too well, don'tchaknow.

Or I would look him square in the eyes and tell him "Husband, I have asked you multiple times to respect my wishes and my boundary and not text your girlfriend in front of me and the kids. This is not yet another in a series of times I'm going to ask you. It's the first in a series of ONE. Do it again, and you're not going to like what happens. I'm done with your disrespect."

And if he did it again, the next time he went out, I'd have all the locks changed and his sh&t would all be out in the front yard.

But that's just me.
Posted By: theotherhalf Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 04:18 AM
Quote:
But in DR it says that most affairs only last 6 months or so


Sorry Karen,

I feel your pain, but just so that your eyes are wide open. My H has had the OW for going on 10 months, possibly even longer than that.

Hang in there and take care of you.
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 05:38 AM
Karen,
Choc is right, it's not easy to suggest what to do.

It's great that you're seeing an IC. Definitely talk to her at your next session. You know, your H knows you don't like him to text OW around you, so why was it ok with him to take a weekend trip with her? He had to know that would NOT be ok. And, he threw it at you pretty much at the last minute. Dirty pool....

If it were me I'd be telling my H -- not again - not while you're in this house! Or if he did, to pack his crap. But I understand you're avoiding that. I didn't want that either. I felt like no matter what happened, it was better to have my H at home. So, I, too, put up with a lot.

If it makes you feel better, I know my H spent an overnight or two with OW after I found out about the A. But he lied to me about it so I wouldn't know. If he had told me outright I would have said, pack enough to last you for a long time!

The first time he did it I found out by snooping. The second time, OW emailed me in an angry frenzy. But by that time, the A was dying out. If it was still going on full force, I would have asked him to leave. But it would have been the hardest thing I'd ever done. So, I understand why you don't want to do that.

I liked Choc's point about setting boundaries. He will get away with what he can. And, I think if he really wanted to leave, he would be gone by now so think about that before you worry about chasing him away!

Again, talk to your IC!

Joie
Posted By: Michael Mc C Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 06:20 AM
Nope, nobody's going to beat you up about anything you've done. What they (we) will do is simply point out areas where you may need to make some adjustments...

Lots of quotes below, please bear with me:

Originally Posted By: Karen43
I said something like well, you shouldn't worry about me, you should just be focused on your own counseling. And that's all I said.
I think this was perfect. "I am taking care of me, don't need you concern. You should be concerned about YOU"

THIS...
Originally Posted By: Karen43
I've done a great job with my therapy and working on myself and most people would be amazed at what I've accomplished in many areas pretty quickly

COUPLED WITH THIS...
Originally Posted By: Karen43
Yes, I think you've done a great job, but I just wanted you to know where we still are.
...is great, if you are in fact working on acceptance. You do NOT need to accept that divorce is a foregone conclusion but you DO have to be able to accept it if it comes to this. You have done a fantastic job but you still have some work to do, which has been made clear through your past few posts. I'm not criticizing I'm just trying to point out that until you are truly able to see a full life without your husband, you will never be truly detached and HE will never see what he is going to lose.

Originally Posted By: Karen43
something in me just wanted him to have his favorite shirts and everything, even though he treats me like dirt
I don't think anyone would put you down for showing your husband love. My first thought when I read this was "damn, she loves him". My second thought, of course, was "she needs to stop taking care of him." As much as it goes against your nature, you should NOT take any part in this area of his life. Let him plan and prepare for his adulterous weekend. I hope that you will NEVER help him, in any way, to nurture this relationship of his in the future.

Originally Posted By: Karen43
if they breakup H might want to work on our marriage I think
This is a thought I have had many times but let me tell you, don't count on it - not by default anyway (besides you don't want him coming back just because his fantasy didn't work out). In my sitch, and many other, once the A is over, the WAS still feels there is a need to divorce. "There must have been something wrong in the marriage for this to happen anyway so why would I want to fix things?"

Do NOT invest hope into this happening right away. I don't mean that it's hopeless, I mean that don't expect that if things end for them (I'm praying for that!!) he may very well feel a D is still a necessity. I'll explain my take on my own sitch:

My Wife told me when the OM left this last time that she had a hole that she hasn't felt before. Funny enough, she agreed that this hole did not exist before she met OM - i.e., the relationship part of her life was fulfilled by our marriage. The relationship with OM took time to grow, she slowly invested more time in THAT relationship and had less to invest HERE. She ended up replacing the intimacy that we shared with the intimacy that THEY shared. When he left, there was no longer a source of intimacy. There's nothing there. She looks at me and says "I got nothing..."


Originally Posted By: Karen43
95% of the time we are friendly and laughing and get along great which I do try to post as well, then he will do something outrageous to convince me, (but I think also himself), or both that we will be getting divorced. Which I think is weird that you have to be convincing yourself or your spouse that divorce is happening by purposely acting rude
This is a WAS tactic. As long as things seem happy and everyone is getting along then their actions ARE accepted. Learn from others who have been there. Getting along does not mean he is holding on to hopes that your marriage is salvagable. It's harsh, maybe, but he is playing you. His joking, laughing, getting along and being friendly is his way of feeling that you have accepted the situation. My wife played me this way. What really sucks is that you have to look past how good it feels to get along with him and remember that he wants to leave.


Originally Posted By: Karen43
I am going to talk to my counselor this Thursday about all of this
Please do. Talk about all of it, including the laundry.

Originally Posted By: Chocolateeyes
A boundary is not a boundary if you're OK with its crossing once or twice
Very well said Choc, very well said.

Originally Posted By: Chocolateeyes
If it were ME, the next time he did it, I think his SIM card would mysteriously disappear from the phone, and the battery contacts would suddenly stop working because it's funny how that clear nail polish doesn't really conduct electricity too well, don'tchaknow.
Ha ha! I was snooping months ago and found that my wife was going to send a picture from her cell phone. A few interesting things happened that night. Somehow (one of the kids maybe?) a Sharpie was used on the lens of her camera phone and the pictures weren't coming out too clear. In addition to that, the contacts somehow were no longer MAKING contact (black electrical tape, cut just the right way, looks so natural in the phone - I love the nail polish idea though). Then there was the final incident where the SIM card got fried (something electrical in the phone I guess). In my opinion, however, it looked like someone had held the SIM card over a candle for a few moments, but I'm just a layman...
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 03:46 PM
And thanks for pointing out all the adjustments I appreciate it!

Originally Posted By: Michael Mc C
Originally Posted By: Karen43
if they breakup H might want to work on our marriage I think
This is a thought I have had many times but let me tell you, don't count on it - not by default anyway (besides you don't want him coming back just because his fantasy didn't work out). In my sitch, and many other, once the A is over, the WAS still feels there is a need to divorce. "There must have been something wrong in the marriage for this to happen anyway so why would I want to fix things?"

Do NOT invest hope into this happening right away. I don't mean that it's hopeless, I mean that don't expect that if things end for them (I'm praying for that!!) he may very well feel a D is still a necessity.


I know this is true, but I think a lot of our problems were my depression and lack of independence which I am working on, and he has anger problems which he has been working on and spent too much time away from home. I was always trying to fix things when we talked; now I'm practicing friendly detachment. I'm sure there were some other issues too, but these were some of our main issues, so I would think with our 2 children he would at least consider marriage counseling if the OW was out of the picture. He said at the beginning of the affair if she was not in the picture he would be working on the marriage and not want divorce. I'm somawhat good looking, funny, smart, & love him despite all his many flaws, etc. and I still consider the fact that he is still living in our house and hasn't moved out when he could have to be some proof of the fact that he has some ambivalence yet about diving fully into a relationship with the OW and/or leaving me.

Actually, I don't think I would be bothered at all or at least too much if I were a "default" relationship if H broke up with OW if he realizes she is not the perfect woman he thinks she is now. I believe if he spent half the time he does on our relationship that he does with her, something like 40 hours a week!, we would probably have a fairly successful relationship with counseling of course! and no OW in the picture! Am I way too much of an optimist?

But truthfully, I do know and hate to admit that he may not break up with the OW so I know I have to be prepared for that. And thanks for the warning that he may be playing me when we are getting along so well. You don't think it is that I am happier now that my depression is gone, but that he is just playing me? That is kind of sad and scary at the same time! Karen43
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 07:05 PM
Quick question! I should have thought to ask this before but didn't. If anyone has time to answer this today I'd appreciate it! When H gets home from his trip tonight what should be my attitude when I greet him? I mean you know typically I would be happy & friendly to see him after 2 days, but I'm sure that is not appropriate considering the circumstances of him being with the OW all weekend. So how do I act?

I am going with my D8 to the theatre from 3pm to 6pm although knowing how rude my H is, he will probably get home after 6pm and miss almost the entire weekend with his kids. (The one positive to that is I am keeping a log of all this kind of stuff so that will look just great to the judge won't it???). Thanks for your help!!! Karen43
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Trying to be patient - 02/10/08 08:05 PM
Civil.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/11/08 02:04 AM
Civil was how I acted I think. (He did get home about 6pm or so.) I was surprised when I saw him, I didn't have any problem not acting as happy & friendly as usual. I am feeling fed up & disgusted with H at the moment. Besides hurting me, H had promised to take my D8 to a play last weekend and then didn't in order to go to a party with OW but promised to take her this weekend. Then of course this weekend he left town with OW and didn't take D8 again and this was the last weekend. I did take her, but I still think it was crappy of him. He never would have done that before the OW.

Then I saw H's car tonight. He must have spent hours cleaning it before their trip. Besides taking out the loads full of clothing, he emptied all the fast food bags, trash, and misc. junk he had in there, and even vacummed it! I said fine, if you want to date someone you have to pretend to be someone else with go right ahead! and I didn't say anything anymore. (But really I don't see how a long-term relationship is going to last where you have to pretend to be someone you're not.) But I'm so fed up with him right now, I wonder if he will wind up with nobody in a few months!!! I am glad my rehearsals for the play start tomorrow so I will not be seeing him much, if at all, during the week esp. which at the moment is just fine with me! Karen43
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Trying to be patient - 02/11/08 02:25 AM
Karen,

I think it's interesting that you chose to challenge him on this:

Quote:
Then I saw H's car tonight. He must have spent hours cleaning it before their trip. Besides taking out the loads full of clothing, he emptied all the fast food bags, trash, and misc. junk he had in there, and even vacummed it! I said fine, if you want to date someone you have to pretend to be someone else with go right ahead!


... but not this:

Quote:
Besides hurting me, H had promised to take my D8 to a play last weekend and then didn't in order to go to a party with OW but promised to take her this weekend. Then of course this weekend he left town with OW and didn't take D8 again and this was the last weekend. I did take her, but I still think it was crappy of him. He never would have done that before the OW.


I think you should point things like this out to him, as simple "truth darts." "H, do you see how incredibly destructive your affair is to our family? Your daughter has been waiting for her daddy to take her to do ______ for the past two weekends."

And then just shake your head at him, disgustedly, and leave the room.

He should NOT get free passes on that crap!

Choc.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/11/08 04:42 PM
Choc, you are right. I darted H with your truth dart about not taking D8 to the play and left the room. I doubt that it will accomplish anything though as I think H is in that fog where he only cares about himself and OW. He honestly was always a very good dad, actually an excellent dad, before the OW and doing that to D8 was a shocker to me and probably to D8 as well! I noticed she is not quite as much a Daddy's girl anymore when we go out, now she is acting like just as much a Mommy's girl too. I guess she realizes she can't count on her Dad anymore which is sad & he's gone so much of the time with OW. I wonder if H notices that (I actually doubt it; he is probably thinking about the OW).

I have another question for anyone that has time to answer! When I get home from rehearsals every night: H will be most likely on his porch where he likes to work & text OW. I get home right there so basically could walk past him and ignore him every night which seems kind of rude, or I could give him a few minutes greeting and tell him about the night (he is friends with most of the people in the play too), or I could just mix it up and just drop by on the porch occasionally when I've had a really great night or something and just drop by a few times a week? I'm trying to be very DB concious and everything, I know you're not supposed to pursue but you are supposed to be friendly, but I still can't figure out which option would be best according to that. Any help is appreciated! Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/11/08 10:26 PM
Karen,

I'm not familiar with your entire sitch as this thread is the only one (of yours) that I have read. I don't really have any advice to give, and all I can honestly say is I'm shocked. I can't, for the life of me, understand why your H is still living in your house with you. He is being allowed to remain there while actively continuing his R with the OW??? Right in front of you, no less!

I am very sorry, Karen, but this is so unbelievable and it just angers me to no end! Of course you and H get along 99% of the time - Your H gets to have the best of both worlds! What's the man got to complain about?!! He gets to keep his security blanket (living at home with you and the kids) while blatantly continuing an A with another woman! Why does he do this? Because he's allowed to!

Again, I am sorry. I'm just so mad for you !

I can totally understand that you love your H, and that you certainly don't want to drive him away. But what about you, Karen? Do you love and have any self-respect for yourself?

That reminds me - you said before, "...Remember that I am just a SAHM and he is a lawyer."

What does that mean??? That you are less of a person, that your wants, needs, opinions don't matter??? That YOU don't matter??!!!

I am a SAHM, too, but I'll be damned if I ever let my H or anyone else ever make me feel like I don't have a say in anything. I may not earn a huge income like my H, but I do just as much as he does, if not more in some ways. Yes, he goes out and works his butt off to provide for his family, but I work just as hard to raise 3 boys while maintaining a household. I do not sit on my a$$ all day, everyday. There are always things that need to be done - cleaning, laundry, cooking, running errands, school projects, after school activities/sports,.....You know what I'm talking about!

YOU ARE WORTH A WHOLE LOT MORE AND DESERVE BETTER!!! Set those boundaries and STICK TO 'EM. Easier said than done, I know this, but you can do it, Karen. Put your foot down and quit enabling your H in continuing with his foolishness.

Whew...ok, I'm done. Sorry if this was harsh, but I had to let it out. 3 years ago, I don't think I would've been strong enough to say anything along these lines. Not just to others, but to myself as well.

Take care.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/11/08 11:26 PM
Uncertainty, I know it sounds bad, but my H had told me he wants a divorce and about the OW, but basically said he would live in our 100 year old house to fix it up and work on it over the next few months and then sell it and use the money to help finance the divorce. I was hoping to use the next few months to work on the R and myself, and have pretty much transformed myself more into who I was when we first met, a happy, although more mature person, and working on being more independent and stronger (know I need to work on those!).

I am going to talk to my counselor to confirm with her, but am thinking that if he does another out-of-town weekend with OW, I will ask him to move out at this point. I definitely promise I won't do his laundry for him!Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/11/08 11:55 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
... I was hoping to use the next few months to work on the R and myself ...

Yes, that is really good. Continue to work on yourself.

However, and there's probably some debate on this subject, how is it possible to work on your M when there is a third person involved? Sorry to sound negative, but IMO, I can't see it happening when H is getting to have his cake and eat it, too.

If he's determined to continue with his A, then he needs to get the he** out. He needs to see and feel what it's really going to be like without his W and children there by his side every night. He needs a rude awakening from la-la-land.

Yeah, I'm still mad. I need a drink!
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/12/08 03:49 AM
Hey Karen43, glad you got through this weekend. You mentioned you thought it might be rude to walk past your H while he was texting OW on the porch? Um, its rude for HIM to be having an A in front of your face. Once H's cell phone rang in front of me. I picked it up, looked at Caller ID, saw it was OW, answered it, and hung it up. I handed the phone to H and walked away. No need to worry about rude. And I agree with choc, you need to be focusing on the truth darts, the things that your H is doing to hurt the people around him.

Oh and you mentioned hoping the A will end and H will come back to you. My H ended his A all on his own, and he still wants a D. Just want you to focus on you, pretend like the D will happen, get yourself strong for you and the kids, then you'll be ready for anything. You are a strong confident woman and mother, let that be your start off point.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/12/08 05:08 PM
Uncertainty, I think there is a lot of debate about that on these boards. I think if my H continues to be hurtful about his A, like the out of town trips, which I also think are probably not great for the kids to witness either, then H definitely is going to have to choose between the out-of-town trips and moving out, the next time he wants to do that. That's what I'm thinking at this point and I'm going to confirm with my C on Thursday and I think she will back me up on that or something even firmer (cause I get the feeling she feels about like you about H).

LWB, you are so right about the whole rude point! H has been rude to me for months now, kind of silly for me to worry about that! Btw, I had darted H with the truth dart about letting my D8 down, and then H seemed like he was avoiding me again when I came home last night. H was in the house but went to bed right away when I got home and barely spoke to me. I guess he didn't like me pointing that out to him. I just gave him a brief friendly greeting the one minute before he went to bed, happy as I usually am lately, and gave him a quick update on my night, and ignored his little pouty personality.

You are right that I should just pretend the D will happen. I will try to do that. Karen43
Posted By: chocolateeyes Re: Trying to be patient *DELETED* - 02/12/08 05:12 PM
Post deleted by sgctxok
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/12/08 07:38 PM
I understand the concept, and to clarify, I wasn't trying to tell Karen how to handle her own sitch. I was stating my opinion, and I don't agree with letting the WAS remain in the house while continuing his/her A. It seems like her H is just running all over her, throwing her a crumb here and there, with absolutely no regard for her feelings. My H would do the same thing, and it's taken me a long time to wake up and smell the coffee.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/13/08 05:57 PM
Had my rehearsal last night and we read through the play: I have my regular role and 6 other crowd scenes and the chorus which has to sing and dance I just found out--some of the rehearsals will be 3 hour dance rehearsals! I will have 7 costumes-including fireman-policeman, moondancer, I wiggle my butt in another party scene! etc. crazy stuff! But I'm having a blast GALing so far!

Came home last night and everyone was asleep. I realized my H has not worked on the house or his porch (only half finished) last weekend of course since he was out of town, but also since he has gotten back Monday and Tuesday. The plans were he was supposed to work on the house and then we were going to separate and divorce. So that seems weird. H woke me up this morning to chat about changes at his job. I noticed last night when he got a box of Girl Scout cookies (as a prize at a race he ran Sat.) he picked out the kind I liked rather than he liked. I guess that could have been guilt of course.

But I still think he does weird things for someone who is going to be divorcing me in a few months??? Maybe he is trying to drive me crazy or something? Because just as I give up all hope on the R, as I did this weekend, he does stuff like the above, and then I start thinking maybe it's not hopeless, you know? But I am trying to follow lwb's advice and pretend the divorce will happen at this point. Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/13/08 06:18 PM
Karen, so glad to hear you are having a great time with the plays!

Though it may feel like it, I really don't think your H is doing anything to deliberately drive you crazy. I'm sure he still cares, quite a bit, for you.

There is always hope. Nothing is ever hopeless, even when it really feels like it.

Continue with GAL and focus on yourself. When H does something nice, show him your appreciation and thank him without going overboard. Just follow his lead but don't tail him, kwim?

And don't worry about him not working on the changes/repairs to the house. Could be a good thing, maybe.

You're doing great. Keep it up.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/14/08 06:34 PM
Okay, I don't know what is going on but H's behavior is very weird! It's like he has a split personality: how could he go off with OW this weekend and then act like he does this week? He woke me up Tues. morning to chat about his job (don't remember him doing this for a long time if ever), and today he woke me up and had bought me a bagel for breakfast (again never? usually just does this for the kids). Last night we watched the 3rd Matrix movie, talked a little, laughed and every couple minutes would look at each other and smile (he was doing this also). Does this sound like someone that is going to be divorcing you in a few months? I am so confused? WTH is going on in our R? Is he just happy he is divorcing me or I am going along with the affair? Does he have feelings for me and he doesn't even realize?

Talking to the C today, mostly about my childhood, and some bad stuff that happened there that probably led to the co-dependent stuff today, did talk about the horrible laundry stuff and how awful that was, and how I will NEVER do that again! We never got to the what to do if he goes out of town again, will have to discuss that next week. Lots of tears at today's C session, glad to have that over with but I guess it's good to discuss stuff like that and get it out in the open which I've never done before.

My C thinks H's affair will not last, because they usually don't and the whole cleaning up the car for hours thing pretending to be neat(btw it is only 6 months old or it probably would have taken him even longer!). I also think H thinks women like me are growing on trees or something: attractive, smart, funny, and really tolerant women who want to clean up after him and take care of him and love him no matter what and I have a feeling he will be a little surprised about that (and my C agreed with me)! Karen43
Posted By: Condor Re: Trying to be patient *DELETED* - 02/14/08 07:37 PM
Post deleted by sgctxok
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Trying to be patient - 02/14/08 08:10 PM
Happy Valentines, Karen.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/16/08 03:16 AM
Happy Valentine's! My H gave me a card for the day saying from the kids of course, and I'm 99% positive he regifted the OW's present to him a teddy bear with I heart you candy's to my D8, after she gave him her present. He ran to the car and came back with it where it was hidden. My H is not the type to have planned ahead to have gotten a gift for her! Is that tacky or what? I said how sweet of you to have gotten a special gift for her as if he really had done that (but I think I know him too well)!

Condor, I think you are right, my H is being a big time cake eater! I wonder what will happen with that. Right now I feel prepared to sit and wait for a while although I wouldn't want to be in a situation for years with a husband with an OW. I would assume the OW wouldn't want to be in that situation either. I wonder if she will at some point get tired of waiting for H to finish the house/get separated/divorced. I guess then she might force the decision, or at some point if this drags out forever I would also want to. I wish he would at some point just end the R with the OW; but he is probably having a great time, so why should he at this point? Maybe as it drags on she will start nagging, begging, pleading, showing some unattractiveness, and/or the fantasy will wear off, and maybe that would help make the decision for him but maybe I am just wishful thinking.

I need to go get some sleep. I just had a 3 hour dance rehearsal and will have another tomorrow morning. One of the teens said tonight I was the "coolest mom ever". Isn't that sweet? Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/16/08 06:04 AM
Originally Posted By: karen43
... Maybe as it drags on she will start nagging, begging, pleading, showing some unattractiveness, and/or the fantasy will wear off, and maybe that would help make the decision for him but maybe I am just wishful thinking.

That's exactly what you want her to do, right?

Hope is always there, Karen, and their A will crumble. It was all built on a lie, which makes for a very unsteady foundation.

Have a blast at the rehearsal!
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 02/17/08 05:40 AM
Karen,

Haven't posted in a while...watching your situation.

Here we go....

1. Don't you ever, ever, ever wash that man's laundry again at some late hour so he can have something nice to wear on his weekend with OW. I will personally come over and slap you silly if you ever do that again. Divorce-busting is not being a doormat. DO NOT debase yourself like that again. You are too wonderful, beautiful and precious to put that kind of abuse upon yourself.

2. Be patient, but please don't take you relational temperature every 5 minutes. It'll kill you. It'll wear you out. It's a marathon. And right now all you want to do is save your marriage. That's understandable, but it'll eat up the energy you need for the home stretch. You must save yourself first. Don't burn up your precious energy trying to turn him toward you. Work on you, and maybe he'll turn around.

3. Remember, you are a strong mom, a good wife, a beautiful woman, a veritable sex goddess. Many men, including me, would kill for a wife like you. Take stock and smile. Get your groove back hun.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/18/08 06:35 PM
Okay, okay, I promise I will never do the laundry before my H's weekend with OW! That was probably my worst moment; I hope I don't do worse than that. My C was horrified when I told her that. I will probably be written up by her in some medical journal as an example of a "doormat" wife now!

I will try not to take the R temp every 5 minutes but that is hard. I am currently a little in panic mode as I type this. I know you will tell me this is wrong, but yet this is how I feel.

H cut down his hours with OW, b/c of work, to just the weekend. This week he was sick so he only saw her Sat. for 2 hours. Sunday am he told her he wasn't going to see her at all (I figured this all out later). I guess because of that (maybe withdrawal?) and I think OW was upset and pressuring H to move out of our house H was super cranky Sunday AM when we went to church and said something like I'll be gone soon or you'll be on your own soon so you better get used to doing everything by yourself or something like that. So I guess H is planning on moving out soon. After church, I went and did groceries and my own thing and H took a nap and talked to his brother. He was fine when I saw him later for dinner, and we were talking and laughing again, & watched a movie together.

I'm sure OW is pressuring him to move out not only because he only can spend a few hours with her on the weekend now, but I think b/c some of what he tells her about me worries her: I lost 35 lbs. (only 5 to go!) work out a lot, am doing 3 hr. dance rehearsals, we talk & laugh all the time, watch movies together, get along great, I still love him, clean & cook for him, good mom, etc. I'm sure H doesn't tell her everything, but even if she knows some, she probably doesn't like the idea of us living together for months and months (if she's smart anyway!).

Anyway, since I think H right now is making the decision about if or at least when to move out right now and OW is pressuring him, what should I be doing if anything? Does anyone have any advice? Just keep doing what I am doing? GALing, being an attractive person, good friend, etc. Any other ideas? I am hoping the OW will be really, really witchy about this, and I have been my usual sweet self the last 2 days. (H did apologize for his cranky behavior yesterday; I guess he realized he was taking his stress out on me.) Karen43
Posted By: fightingirish Re: Trying to be patient - 02/18/08 09:30 PM
karen,

ditto theo...

I wouldn't do anything at this point, don't pleed from him to stay just act "as if"... He's going to do what he wants to do at this point, so you asking him to stay will make it look worse for you.

Yes, continue galing... Good for you in losing the weight!! Be proud of yourself and all that you have accomplished. You deserve some pampering!!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/18/08 10:38 PM
Hi, Karen.

I agree with tal. Keep focusing on you, GAL, and on all the positives that are happening for YOU. All that weight loss!!! Girl, I am jealous!
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 02/19/08 05:03 AM
Karen,

If he wants to move out, let him. If you try to stop him, he'll want out even more. Let him see that you'll be fine, and keep blossoming.

Remain positive. And start being positive not as an "act" in front of your Husband, but because there's a ton of great stuff in your life you are doing for yourself.

Try bellydancing...maybe karate. ;-)

By the way. Talk to your lawyer and see what his moving out means in your state vis a vis custody, and financial settlements. Him moving out is stupid legally. Is there anything you need to document...etc.

Remember Karen...you need to pace yourself and take care of yourself. I'm in the home stretch right now, the affair is over betweeen wife and OM, but I didn't really care for myself as I should have, and I have little energy left for the relationship.

The space might do you some good.

---Theoden
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/19/08 10:21 PM
I am trying to be positive in every sense, not just as an act. I do feel like I have made a lot of positive changes in my life, which I think H has seen hopefully, though he tends to focus more on anything negative I do or even if anything negative happens blaming me, rather than on anytning positive which I am doing.

I would be sad if H moved out, but it would also be somewhat of a relief not to have a husband/dad who has a girlfriend/in love with OW. If he moves out though I think I will try to be as positive about it as I can be, and tell him I hope he will be happy, but he is always welcome to return if he is not, as that is how I feel right now. I am wondering if it might almost be good for him to live with or spend a lot more with OW and maybe he will see that I am a good woman/wife/mom with space/distance. If he returns, it would be if he ends that relationship I would think, and it would be better/healthier for me anyway, probably the whole family. So I am trying to look at the positives if H moves out. Karen43
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/19/08 11:57 PM
I think there are some positives to H moving out (mine as well, he just won't leave!). You can stop walking on eggshells, schedule your own day, and have space to relax. Not seeing the raw details of the A every day will be nice too. Will it be hard? Oh yes.

Quote:
and tell him I hope he will be happy, but he is always welcome to return if he is not, as that is how I feel right now


I am no expert, but I would word this differently. Maybe say "Your happiness is important to me. I still want this marriage and think with hard work from both of us, it could work." That way you aren't giving him a 'free pass' to just come home.

Take care!
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/20/08 07:20 PM
Thanks everyone for all your good advice and support! I am so glad I am doing this play! I am really sore, and am so busy, but realized when I went home the other night I was almost dreading seeing H and his whole drama and divorce talk and almost constant reminders that he is in love with OW. It is getting old for me.

Yesterday he was complaining about us (the kids or I) leaving a light on in the bathroom and no one was in there (it could have even been him of course!) he is so cheap with us. Later that day, I got a credit card bill in the mail and found out he had charged a $96 hotel room on his weekend trip with OW, and he just paid $266 for a gym membership for OW (his is deducted monthly from another card). I am feeling disgusted by him right now. I haven't said anything or don't plan to, just keeping the records for the attorney when he tries to claim we don't have the money for homeschooling. (Cause he is spending the money on OW!) If he moves out at some point soon or files the divorce papers, he is definitely making it easier for me I think. I am still mildly DB'ing, but now acting more detached b/c I am caring a little less right now about him. I am thinking he is such a jerk lately, it is hard to care as much as I once did. I am now doing it more for the kids and I don't even know why; I guess because he was a good husband for a long time before this past 2 years. I'm doing it for that guy. Karen43
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/20/08 11:42 PM
Karen, in some states, you can be 'awarded' back the money H spent on OW. Keep good records.

I am sorry that he is being a jerk, I have one at home. I so know how old it gets, quickly. I am very proud of you for getting out, doing things for yourself (the play, can the whole DB board come and cheer you on??). And yes, I miss what I call "Old H", the new one is so selfish and cranky.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 12:18 AM
I wish that when we were out shopping for H's, they had a sticky attached that said "Jerk Included - Take At Your Own Risk"! Guess it's just a given! ;\)

Hang in there, Karen. You are really doing TERRIFIC! Pay no attention to H's grumpiness. It's always easier to place blame elsewhere than it is for them to look at themselves first.

Let us know when the play's taking place! We'll be applauding!
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 01:01 AM
The next time he complains about a light being left on you can reply that it sure doesn't cost as much as a hotel room.

My H spent lots on OW, too. Immediately after I found out about the A, I averaged all the extra cash he took out using our debit card, and what I saw on his credit card (before he started hiding the statements) and it was a few hundred dollars a month. A couple of months later I treated my sisters to a night out and he complained. I told him that the $100 I spent that night was nothing compared to what he had spent with her. He shut up.

You mentioned the constant reminders from him that he is in love with OW? Does he tell you this to your face?
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 02:27 PM
Joie, he's told me a few times that he loves OW, but lately just says that he is going to be divorcing me or we will be divorcing or that he'll be moving out. In the past (he hasn't in the past few weeks though!)he had the period where he was texting her, she would be buzzing him texting him, or he'll be going off to see her....just reminders for me. But then he has very sweet days like last night where we spent an hour together laughing and talking, watching TV. There was a moon eclipse he went out to see and he called me outside to join him and we had a great time together. I'm confused, and sometimes I wonder if he is too! Karen43
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 04:58 PM
I just broke every DB rule I think! I was so pi**ed off. I snooped which I never do, and found OW's valentine's card in the back seat of the car signed by OW, and another bulletin from a party he went to with OW with her name in it. OW is a former coworker of H, he lied about who OW was so I wouldn't know it was her, I had suspected her initially and he said it was someone from his track club to throw me off her trail. I really don't understand H paying for all their crap & her gym membership b/c she makes quite a bit more money than he does! I just sent her an email b/c I was pissed. Her d14 went to preschool with my s14 and we had been friendly when we spoke, but I guess she didn't consider me much of a friend after all!: I emailed her: Hope you can sleep good at night knowing you are breaking up a family- wife and two kids! But you probably don't have any morals so don't have a problem. So sorry I was every friendly to you...Karen--

I probably shouldn't have emailed her at all, but was so upset, and could have emailed much worse. I'm sure H will be mad at me, but after all he has done, should I even care??? Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 05:42 PM
Karen, so sorry to hear this. I could only try to imagine the type of hurt and anger brought about when finding out OW was/is actually someone you thought of as a friend, or even just an acquaintance. What a b*tch! Sorry but I had to say it for you.

You're right though, H will most likely be angry, but you know what? It's his own fault. If he gets nasty with you, stand up to him and say something like, "I realize how upset you are by this, but if you intend to be rude, vulgar, etc with me, let's discuss this at a more appropriate time when we can both talk as rational adults." Then walk away. Give him time to cool down.

Don't become upset with yourself. Many of us probably would've reacted the same way. Gotten p*ssed and did something about it. We're only human.

Be strong. Be patient. Be calm. Smile. \:\)

(((((((Hugs)))))))
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 11:41 PM
Karen,
Hope you're feeling better tonight. Finding out who the OW was, and that you knew her, and H lied about who it was, was certainly a shock. But I can so sympathize because looking back I think I was more p!ssed off at the lies my H continued to spew than the A!

Each of us has our own limitations, we can only take so much. Sometimes we have to let it out! Perhaps it wasn't the right thing to do (remember the 48 hour rule) but you've been trying to be more independent and by contacting OW, you did just that. Sometimes it feels like we're so out of control, and there's absolutely nothing we can do about what's happening to our lives, our M, our spouses, etc.

You mentioned before that your H was a control freak. He certainly thinks he is in control of this entire sitch, and making a beeline to get what he thinks he wants (D). I think it's good to let him see your anger. He probably just expected you to roll over and give in. He seems to be walking all over you.

No one can tell what emailing the OW will do. It certainly will rock the boat, but in which direction, who knows. Perhaps it will cause choppy waters between H and OW, too. I'm sure H will be p!ssed off. If he confronts you about it, I'd be prepared what your response will be and how you will act.

I'd be firm, but definitely calm. I'm sure others will help out with that one.

Joie
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 11:52 PM
Oh karen, I am so sorry. So very sorry. I wouldn't regret the email, it was short and to the point. I am sure it surprised her a bit. Is she married? Sorry if I missed that....

My H's OW was a friend of mine, just a *our kids are the same age, same school* friend, but friend none-the-less. I know how much it hurts.

Just stay clear of H if he is mad, this will pass. You had every right to do what you did. Wonder if OW will tell him about the email? Joie is right, this is a 180 for you.

Take care.
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/21/08 11:52 PM
Sigh, I miss condor/choc. He would be so proud of you! I know I am!
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 12:04 AM
I was wondering what you know about OW, too ... married, separated, divorced, etc?
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 05:32 PM
OW is married with kids also. But I am assuming she is going to be getting divorced too. Today was bad. H told me this morning that he had made arrangements several weeks ago (without telling me) to move out in April (one day before my play starts isn't he thoughful!) but b/c of our argument yesterday (when I found out he lied about who the OW was for past 3 months a former friend I had helped out several times) will now be moving out I guess beg. of March. which actually is probably better for me timing wise, a month before the play rather than a day. He called me pathetic I guess for having feelings still for him or not wanting a divorce when he is in love with OW. He was yelling at me and I asked him to stop and he said I am in control now and I said fine, keep yelling, and just walked out of the room, and he was left in the room with my D8, so I assume at some point he hopefully stopped yelling around the poor child.

I assume he will be living with the OW b/c that is the only way he can afford it, and that is what he had mentioned before that he wanted to live with her. He told the kids he will come visit, probably on the weekends.

I am feeling really mixed up and depressed. I have been depressed in bed and crying, but D8 said this morning how Dad isn't nice to me and both kids seem fine about him leaving, so in some ways I will be relieved b/c he is kind of nasty to me sometimes. I haven't felt like begging and pleading with him to stay or even mentioning how he can come back if he wants, which I had thought I would tell him but now I don't think so. But still I've been crying all day too, so I'm basically a big mess today. Karen43
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 06:48 PM
Karen,

I am so sorry for your pain today! And really sorry your daughter had to hear that.

After all your husband has done (and is still doing), why would you even WANT him to come back if he wants, with no conditions?

Puppy
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 07:14 PM
(((((((Karen))))))),

You are BEAUTIFUL, LOVELY, and WONDERFUL. Don't you EVER forget it! HE is the one who's pathetic. Do NOT let him get to you.

I am very sorry for what you went through, for what you're going through now, and that your D had to witness it, too. I can't believe he would say things like that right in front of her!

Don't assume anything other than the responsibility for yourself and for your children. I know you're hurting, and this is a low time, but it WILL get better. Deep down you have to believe that, and your babies need to see how brave and really strong you are. Show them that you CAN and WILL go on.

Get all of the sadness out, and then when you're ready, go do something special just for you. Whatever Karen wants! Treat yourself and shower yourself with lots of love. You so totally deserve it and are worth it! \:\)

Be strong, my friend, and know that you will be ok.
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 07:18 PM
Karen,
(((HUGS)))

I also am astounded that your D8 had to hear his yelling, etc. What a horrible thing for a parent to do. He said he was in control but obviously he wasn't.

Don't regret calling the OW. Just remember, it's not over until it's over. He thinks life with OW is going to be better? Doubtful! Plus, it sounds like she has major hurtles to cross too (of moving out of her own house). And what about her kids? Is she planning on taking them? Do they think everything is going to magically fall into place for them? Fantasy!

Puppy is right, you may not even want him or the M if he goes ahead with this plan. Only you can decide that.

I can imagine how hurt, angry and depressed this had made you. Detach! You need to be the stable parent for your kids. Concentrate on them and the work on the play. Don't concern yourself with him or his actions. Don't beg or plead. Act like he's already gone.

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 07:20 PM
That's why I said I had planned to tell him he could come back if he wasn't happy, but now I'm not going to. He was horrible today. He thinks I'm pathetic b/c I still have feelings for him when he is in love with OW. Of course I kind of think I am too at this point. I shouldn't have feelings for him after the way he has treated me lately really. He says he is over loving me, even if he didn't love OW he is over me. He can't get over how I acted when I was depressed (doesn't believe it was depression). (Of course I can forgive him for how he has acted when he had the affair and emailing OW, but he can't forgive a sloppy house which he even contributed to!)And he doesn't see that his yelling at me, not talking to me, being gone 80 hours a week, then contributed to my depression, etc, just blames me mostly I think. But I think if we had gotten MC instead of his having an affair these were workable problems. I have worked on my issues at least. I wish I could stop crying. I was feeling pretty strong before today, but feel weak again today. Karen43
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 07:35 PM
Karen,

You can't legislate feelings -- none of us can -- they're like fears, in that you can't just "will" yourself to get over them.

I think the distinction that we're trying to make is in how you ACT on those feelings. Why, even before this latest incident, you would invite him back so readily, without preconditions, is part of your problem, just from reading your sitch.

If I misunderstand, and you were just saying you were THINKING that, but would never SAY that to him . . . or if you WOULD have some serious preconditions, then my apologies. I'm new here.

Puppy
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 09:17 PM
I had wanted to invite him back if we separated if he was unhappy with the OW, thinking if they broke up at some point I would allow him to move back in, and I would tell him that he was welcome to move back in if he wanted to if it didn't work out with OW. Now, after how things have gone today, I think I will try to be friendly and mildly DB which we haven't been very friendly to each other today. H insists the affair has not been destructive to our marriage, which I do not believe and we have been arguing over that today. I am not planning on offering H any invitations to move back in the future right now, puppy, so I guess you will be happy to hear that. I don't think H wants to hear that anyway, so it would be falling on deaf ears anyway! Karen43
Posted By: BradNL Re: Trying to be patient - 02/22/08 09:45 PM
Karen,

Sorry to hear that your H would do and say those things in front of your D, its never ok to do that. I have talked, not shouted, in front of the kids before, and even that is not good. My W is the one that thinks its fine to show disrespect in front of the kids...

We have to learn to be strong, for our children at first, and then for our own selves. I understand a lot of how you feel, but you are doing great, despite the current setback. And it is not a sign of weakness to cry, you have to take time to mourn the things that are lost. Don't know if I'm sounding coherent, I'm really tired today.

Peace and love
Brad
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 05:56 PM
So last night just before I left for rehearsal, H made sure to pull out a chocolate cake he bought. We always have had them for bdays and celebrations. To make the point that he is celebrating moving out. I don't know why he does hurtful stuff like that to me. I have been cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids, good, faithful wife. He has been doing all the stuff he has been doing, and yet he acts like he is the tortured victim in the marriage for some reason. I don't get it.

I was so happy to go to rehearsal last night. I finally told most of my friends there, maybe all of them?, about H and the marriage and they are all supportive. Many of them know OW's kids and my kids and all say my kids are sweet but OW's d14 is troubled and a handful and her stepkids are emotionally troubled, anexoric, etc. I am not too surprised b/c I know she works 50 hours or so and then has been spending 30-40 hours a week on the affair with my H so doesn't spend much time with them, so I don't think that is good for kids. H seems to have picked an OW that is almost my opposite I think. So I hate to admit I am a little happy I think her kids will disturb a little of his perfect fantasy life with OW. OW has two last names (she is married with kids currently) and her D14 a different third last name so I am also thinking she is on her 2nd or 3rd marriage, and if H wants to marry her he will be her 3rd or 4th husband, so that means I think she's got some issues too, so wonder about that too...Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 06:07 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
So last night just before I left for rehearsal, H made sure to pull out a chocolate cake he bought. We always have had them for bdays and celebrations. To make the point that he is celebrating moving out. I don't know why he does hurtful stuff like that to me.

It's possible, insanely possible, that he might be trying to get a rise out of you, as in possibly trying to start a fight with you so it will make him feel better about the decision he is making to leave his family.

I can't tell you how many times my H would get nasty and become hurtful towards me just in an attempt to make himself feel better about what he was doing. He never readily admitted it, but whenever I pointed it out, he never denied it.

I'm sorry, Karen. I know it sucks. Let him be and continue to detach. His awful behavior will come back to bite him in the a$$.

(((((Hugs)))))
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 06:19 PM
Karen,
He bought a celebration cake to celebrate his moving out? How ignorant! Did he tell the kids that's what it was for???? Actually, him doing stuff like this to hurt you is emotional abuse. Document all of it!

I'm so sorry he has to hurt you like that. It's so childish. And he certainly isn't the tormented victim here. GoingForward has a good point -- he could have been trying to get a rise out of you. He'd probably like to see you explode so he can stand back and say, see why I want out of this M?

I'm glad you told your friends what was going on. You need their support.

As far as OW and her family... boy oh boy is H getting into a bad sitch! His little fantasy world is going to crumble fast. If a had a million dollars I would be betting that this R is not going to last! A new R or M does not make your problems go away - they are just carried into the next R.

Get out with the kids this weekend. Leave him out of any activities. He isn't good for your PMA. (And throw that cake away.)

Joie
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 06:51 PM
Karen,

I'm with the others. "Picking fights," in order to justify their poor choices, is classic affair script. Don't take the bait. Either rise above it, without comment, or simply shake your head at him disapprovingly, as if he were a petulant child.

Puppy
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 07:54 PM
I didn't say anything about the cake. I think I did just shake my head and left to rehearsal, I was more shocked at his cruelty I think than anything, although at this point maybe I shouldn't be. We got along fine today and he was acting normal as was I. But then H just walked in where I was getting ready to go leave & get groceries with an armful of clothes and said he was leaving and would be back tomorrow morning, so he is going to spend the rest of the day and night with OW. I guess he can't wait the week until he goes to live with her full-time. Karen43.
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 09:16 PM
Karen,
(((HUGS)))

Many people here say that being S is actually easier on you. I think you'll find out it is true for you. It's probably not what you want, but his antics are hard on you.

And don't you worry about him being so eager to be with OW. That balloon is going to burst on him.

Enjoy your night with your kids.

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/23/08 10:15 PM
Thanks everyone for the supportive thoughts! They really help! The last few days have been rough! I am crying so much less today. Not really that much, but just a little when he left to see OW. I went grocery shopping with the kids, and it was a little surreal b/c I realized it was maybe the last time I would be shopping for the whole family, with H included. I still got all his favorites, his diet soda and everything, I guess if I'd been petty with the way he's been acting, I wouldn't have and even considered that for about a millisecond. I have a feeling if our situations were reversed, he would do that, because for example today when he got lunch for he and the kids he got nothing for me, but I didn't do the petty thing, because that's not my style, and I don't want to lower myself or start acting like that.

I talked a little just briefly to the kids about Dad moving out soon, didn't want to make a huge deal, but thought we should talk a little. They are just totally fine with it, and I guess he is gone so much of the time, always been gone 70-80 hours a week, so his visiting on the weekends won't be much different, and if he ever breaks up with OW, I am thinking he may even see them more at that point than he has lately.

Joie, I am dreading him moving out, after 22 years together, but I know in some ways it will be a lot easier; he has been so mean a lot sometimes lately, abusive, and I don't deserve that, no one does of course. I really do hope his counseling he is doing and the separation will help him somehow with the MLC or whatever he is going through. Karen43
Posted By: Yoyowife Re: Trying to be patient - 02/24/08 01:56 AM
((((Karen)))))
I'm so sorry for everything you are going through. He is putting you and the kids through so much. I think a separation right now might be the best thing he can do right now. My H and I have been separated for over a year, but we still see each other and go out on "dates" some. Honestly, I don't think I could have handled knowing that when he left the house he was going to spend time with the OW. I wasn't burying my head in the sand, I know they were spending time together, but it was just easier not knowing when, if that makes any sense to you.

You will also find you don't have to walk on eggshells like you do when he is around. I believe my H has been going through a MLC and I believe your H is also. While he is gone take time to be good to yourself and the kids. I think the play is great! It sounds like something you enjoy and it gets you out of the house.

On the MLC forum there are some good articles about MLC. I can see a lot of these behaviors in my H. The key to a MLC seems to be patience. So buckle up and get ready for a bumpy ride.

Here is the link to the thread that I found very informative.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1350825&page=1#Post1350825

Hugs to you!
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/24/08 04:31 PM
Thanks, Yoyo! My C thinks H is going through an MLC, and other people have said they think he is also. He came home today after spending 24 hours with OW, and gave me a lecture that I was falling down on my responsibilities b/c I had let my S14's room get messy! I've been doing the play, been sick the past few days, went grocery shopping yesterday anyway which took several hours, did an hour housework last night before bed, but his room got by me with all the stuff going on this week. Can you believe H lectured me about responsibility when he was out with OW for the past day/night? And is about to move out? Is that just too ridiculous? Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/24/08 06:54 PM
He's nitpicking, Karen. My H does it nearly every single time he comes by. For no reason whatsoever, he'll walk around every room in the house and find something, anything, wrong and be sure to point it out to me. The kids left toothpaste in the bathroom sink, they didn't put a new roll of toilet paper on the holder, clean folded clothes I place on my bed that I haven't put away yet, or leftovers in the fridge. It irritates the crap out of me, and I feel like saying, "WTH do you care? You don't live here anymore." I certainly don't complain about what his place looks like nor do I have the desire to.

I think it's just their way of convincing themselves that this environment is all wrong for them, making the decision to leave that much easier. They refuse to see what's good in the home.

Don't let H get under your skin. Tell him you're sorry the mess bothers him and leave it at that. Change the subject to something more pleasant or walk away.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/25/08 04:07 PM
Thanks, GoingForward! I think that is probably true; he is trying to make the process easier by convincing himself that he is right in leaving me for whatever reasons. I am so glad I made it through the weekend! I noticed Sunday I was reverting to my old depression behavior and hid out in my room to avoid H and his hurtful comments/actions. I then came out in the afternoon and did cleaning and laundry. H took the kids out to dinner. I spent the evening with H watching a Clint Eastwood "Good, Bad, the Ugly" movie. It was really good. He had seen it before, so when I was all stressed about the 3-way gunfight he was just smiling at me. We talked & laughed again through the movie. My H is like a Jekyll & Hyde (my C mentioned that and I have to agree). Weird.

I think H is going to move out this weekend so that will be another stressful weekend. He hasn't told us exactly when, and doesn't talk to the kids about it. My D8 is clearly stressed, today she asked me if her dad had moved out yesterday, I said no, but I think soon. She keeps saying today over and over that she doesn't want him to move out or leave, but she's not going to cry. I told her it's ok to cry, i will be and she can join me. I feel so sad for my D8 and for the whole family. Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/25/08 06:23 PM
I always feel worse for the children. I remember when my H left, and having to tell the boys in the morning that their father was no longer living with us.....Oh that was the hardest thing I ever had to do. I can still vividly recall the pain on their faces.

Give your babies lots of love. (((((Hugs)))))
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/25/08 10:21 PM
Every day it seems somethin makes me upset. I just found a piece of paper next to the computer with info our doctor had written down obviously for my H with a doctor's info on it. I was curious of course so googled the info. It is for a marriage and family counselor. He already is seeing an individual counselor for his anger issues. He is moving out this weekend as he feels our marriage is over. So I am guessing the couples counseling is with the OW? WTH? What kind of counselor (an MSW it said) would give marriage and family counseling to a couple that are married to entirely different spouses than the ones they are in counseling with! Every day I feel worse and worse about the chances of our marriage, my H, and our family. I feel sick actually. Karen43
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 02/25/08 10:56 PM
Karen,
Are you sure it's recent? Is it dated? If it's not, that is really inconceivable that he/they would be seeing a marriage and family counselor before evening walking out the door. And, that a MSW would agree to such a thing (Unless they've told this person that their previous Ms are already over.) I just don't know. Puzzles me...

Why don't you ask him? At this point, why not?

(((HUGS)))

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/25/08 11:39 PM
I think it's recent because I just had cleaned off the computer desk this past week, and my H has just gone to the doctor once in the past 5 years about a week ago with his bronchitis (he never gets sick). I am thinking maybe he is doing all this counseling not for our relationship but b/c he is smart enough to realize that the next relationship will fail if he doesn't do it (he realizes he is messed up and it helped cause our R to fail). It just makes me sick that he wouldn't do C for our relationship but he would do it for OW. Karen43
Posted By: lovelyolive Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 12:21 AM
Karen,
My H once told me that he and ow would have to go through months of C before getting married. Probably a good idea except for the fact that a relationship built on lies and deceipt is destined to fail no matter what.

Hang in there... It's true what they say around here.. once you start to GAL and truly move on, the WAS becomes interested again. Then, you have the confidence and the power to choose what is really right for YOU..
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 05:27 PM
Probably shouldn't have done what I did today, but I did. H last night got some steaks and cooked dinner and he was stressed out and tired from work and I felt bad he did that. When I was depressed, he would cook dinner at least half the time if not more, and I never noticed how tired/stressed he was. Several times he's asked me why I didn't cook and clean like he wanted then; he can't understand if I loved him, and I emailed him today trying to explain.

My email was something like: I didn't notice his being tired/stressed, I was in my own little depressed world I guess, and I am horrified at that. (Since coming out of my depression, I do cook dinner every night, keep the house clean, etc.) I also explained how I am enjoying everything, just simple things like being with the kids, the play I'm doing, just being with H watching movies.

I was really disappointed he just emailed back: Let's just be the best parents we can through and after the divorce and not dwell on the past. I don't know what I expected him to say back, but that just seemed kind of cold. But I guess I should have expected that. Karen43
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 07:00 PM
Quote:
But then H just walked in where I was getting ready to go leave & get groceries with an armful of clothes and said he was leaving and would be back tomorrow morning, so he is going to spend the rest of the day and night with OW.


Document this and events like it.
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 07:08 PM
Karen,

Stop trying to explain why you were the "bad wife" when you were depressed.

Stop trying to convince him to go to C with you.

This is chasing behavior...it only pushes him away further.

People want what they can't have. So...start taking care of yourself some more. I'm excited about the play. Now start going to a gym or something. The happier you are without him, and the more you show him what a great person you are, the more he'll be likely to notice.

Wait it out till he moves, then the stress will drop Then you can practice the Last Resort Technique in earnest.

--Theoden
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 07:13 PM
I have been, Theoden, and then when he moves out I assume that will also help me gain custody as well which I assume you are referring to, thinking we will probably be divorcing? Plus, H apparently doesn't even want to have the kids at his apartment (I believe because of OW) and says he will visit them here. H is like a different person than he was a year ago, since getting involved with the OW, both with me obviously but even with the kids. Karen43
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 07:25 PM
Originally Posted By: theoden
Karen,

Stop trying to explain why you were the "bad wife" when you were depressed.

Stop trying to convince him to go to C with you.

This is chasing behavior...it only pushes him away further.

--Theoden



Thanks for the advice! I will try to avoid 100% of the chasing behaviors, and follow your advice. I don't know what is inside of me that makes me do stuff like that! So frustrating! I will be doing good at db'ing and being strong and then I will have a weak moment and blow it like that. I think I will print out your post today and save it as a daily reminder to myself!!! Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 07:53 PM
Karen,

As others have advised, document everything.

No one can say that your sitch will result in D or not. You don't want that, right? It's all H, correct? Let him do the filing and all the work. Help him with none of it.

Try your best not to worry about it. Keep taking care of yourself.

Originally Posted By: karen43
Plus, H apparently doesn't even want to have the kids at his apartment (I believe because of OW) and says he will visit them here. H is like a different person than he was a year ago, since getting involved with the OW, both with me obviously but even with the kids. Karen43

Just my opinion, but I would have H take the kids out during his visits and make plans to GAL elsewhere during these times. He has to know what it's really going to be like without you around. His visits shouldn't be only on his terms because it's convenient for HIM and OW. She will have to accept that they are his children and have every right to be around.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/26/08 08:37 PM
Originally Posted By: GoingForward
Karen,



No one can say that your sitch will result in D or not. You don't want that, right? It's all H, correct? Let him do the filing and all the work. Help him with none of it.

Just my opinion, but I would have H take the kids out during his visits and make plans to GAL elsewhere during these times. He has to know what it's really going to be like without you around. His visits shouldn't be only on his terms because it's convenient for HIM and OW. She will have to accept that they are his children and have every right to be around.


Thanks for the support that my situation is not completely hopeless cause recently I have been feeling like it is! The director of my play wants to add on extra rehearsal time on the weekends, both Sat. and Sundays now, when H would hopefully be seeing the kids, and I also signed up to help with the sets, so will be gone a bunch of hours with the play each weekend. I thought I would suggest H should try to see the kids those hours, esp. the hours I'm rehearsing, as that would make sense, even if they might not be the perfect hours for OW of course, just like real life. Otherwise my teenage son would have to babysit or the kids would have to come over with me sometimes which doesn't make as much sense of course. Hopefully that will motivate him to spend more/or at least some time with the kids I hope. Karen43
Posted By: Michael Mc C Re: Trying to be patient - 02/27/08 04:37 AM
My W was ready to walk out the door back in December and, as if it was a discussion about the weather, she asked if I would mind her coming up to visit the kids each afternoon once she moved to her mother's house (she was NOT going to be moving back into "my" house after meeting the OM)

I told her that it might work for a little while but that I was concerned that we would be confusing the kids. I also told her that regardless of what decisions we make, the courts could change things regarding custody and visitation (I really had no idea what I was talking about at the time).

She went ballistic on me but it got her thinking more about what it was she was asking me to do - it did nothing to change her mind about going to see OM and then moving out, luckily other twists of fate got in the way of either of those things occurring.

Anyway, when he leaves, I honestly believe you need to have clearly defined boundaries. Your space vs. his space. Don't let him pull the "but we share responsibility of the children" crap either. He is leaving and by doing that he is giving up his right (IMO) to just about everything he's leaving behind. You cannot stop him from seeing the kids based on a schedule but you certainly don't have to allow his visits to be convenient for him. Try to be strong with this. If you allow him to come and go as he pleases, he'll have a hard time missing what he has already.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/27/08 06:43 AM
Quote:
If you allow him to come and go as he pleases, he'll have a hard time missing what he has already.

Michael is right, Karen. I believe this is one HUGE mistake I made with my H. I've allowed him this very thing throughout our S, and I still do. It could very well be one of the reasons why our S has gone on for so long. My H knows that he can see the kids whenever possible and convenient for him because I won't refuse it. Therefore, he doesn't get a chance to truly miss us. It is a little different in my sitch though. H's work schedule constantly changes from week to week, but if I really wanted to play hardball, I would put my foot down and say, "No. There needs to be a set schedule for when you are to have the boys. If you have to work, then you must arrange for a sitter." Since I work limited part-time, naturally I am that sitter! Guess I need to practice what I preach about boundaries, huh?!!
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/27/08 05:18 PM
Thanks for the advice and I think I will try to work that out with H that he will have set times, I think he wants to take them to church each week (I don't think H listens to the sermons too closely!), and I would like him to take them when I have rehearsals so hopefully that would work out.

I had a low day yesterday, I've been feeling down lately with H moving out soon, glad I see my C tomorrow. I went to the rehearsal yesterday and it was a dance one which is always tiring and before that, the costumer was having me try on dresses, so when I got home between the stress/dancing and the busy day trying to get stuff done beforehand I felt tired. H and I have had a routine the past few weeks, when I get home from rehearsal, he is watching TV and I go in and tell him how my night went and we watch a little TV, talk a little and then he goes to bed. Last night I was tired so I just didn't feel up to it, I went to my room and went to bed. I noticed H came in and opened the door to my room and checked on me (waking me up) I noticed it was 10:45. Usually I'm always home by 10:30 so I guess he was worried I hadn't come home or something and was seeing if I was home. So I guess he does at least care if I am alive or not, so I guess that is something!

H came in this morning to tell me he talked to the kids last night about moving out (probably should have waited until I was there tonight but typical H), and he will be moving out March 15th. So I just said Great(what to say to that?), and H went to work.

Karen43
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/27/08 11:24 PM
I know this is a tough time, Karen. Just want to offer some more support.

(((((Hang in there.)))))

Hope everything goes well with C tomorrow. \:\)
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/28/08 04:50 PM
Spent last night with H watching "Trainspotting". Good movie although slightly weird. H actually said "Good night" when he went to bed. Again, he made a special point of pulling the car out this morning so I wouldn't have to put it into reverse and back it out this morning. Thoughtful, caring gesture he usually hasn't ever done before.

Saw my C this morning. She is always so sweet. I am realizing that my marriage is most likely over, what 99% or something? My H considers it over, and even if he did come back, we would have to go through MC, which might not work, so am feeling a little bummed about that. C always reminds me of the things H has done, and how in my "next relationship" (so I think C is not very hopeful for my marriage either) that I need to not be a doormat. That was my word for it, I think she would have put it a nicer way maybe, maybe not. Karen43
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 02/28/08 04:57 PM
Thanks for the hugs & support, GF. Right back at you! \:\) Karen
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 02/28/08 06:26 PM
Hi, Karen! I saw that movie with my H before, too. Yes, definitely kooky but good.

Never give up hope. Nothing is ever final. Just keep moving forward with you and your kids in mind.
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/01/08 06:49 PM
Karen,

How are you today?

(((((Thinking of you))))). \:\)
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/02/08 05:00 PM
Hi, GF! I've been doing great this weekend! \:\) H took the kids to their annual trip to Daytona for Bike Week with his dad (the kids' grandpa) which they've been doing for almost 40 years now. Wonder if H told his dad all that he's been doing about the OW (married with kids) and moving out and all that since his dad is super-religious? (I think if he is saying anything it is probably highly edited to make OW and H sound better.)

I kept super busy this weekend. Rehearsal on Friday, and on Saturday did backstage stuff. I helped the stage managers do shopping for props & furniture, move furniture, and then spent the afternoon painting the sets. I managed to get slightly more paint on the sets than on myself!

Then I went out to dinner and a cocktail bar, so I am slightly hungover this morning. I am hoping I will recover quickly b/c I am supposed to be painting again at 3pm today. I need to clean really quickly the next couple hours before H gets home or I'm going to get lectured at about not keeping up with my responsibilities but he was just on a 3 day vacation so kind of ridiculous for him to lecture I think!

It was so relaxing this weekend without H, it's funny how you don't realize how stressful the whole situation is sometimes until you don't have to deal with it a few days! Karen
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/02/08 06:44 PM
You know what's weird, I guess being alone, I had time to think for a change, no kids interrupting me for the first time in years. I was cleaning now, and I just realized I think it will be good for me when H moves out in 2 weeks. He's been making me feel worthless, horrible, and stupid by calling me those names or treating me that way for long enough now that I realized today I agree with him: I feel that way about myself too. I am screwed up. Hopefully, when he moves out and with my C's help, maybe I can undo some (all?) of the damage...Karen
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/02/08 06:46 PM
Quote:
...it's funny how you don't realize how stressful the whole situation is sometimes until you don't have to deal with it a few days!

You're tellin' me!!!

Don't worry about what H is saying or not saying to his dad or anyone else. You know what the truth is, and that is all that matters.

I'm so happy to hear all of this, Karen! You're doing so well for yourself!

Take it easy, party girl, and I hope you have more fun today!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/02/08 06:53 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
You know what's weird, I guess being alone, I had time to think for a change, no kids interrupting me for the first time in years. I was cleaning now, and I just realized I think it will be good for me when H moves out in 2 weeks. He's been making me feel worthless, horrible, and stupid by calling me those names or treating me that way for long enough now that I realized today I agree with him: I feel that way about myself too. I am screwed up. Hopefully, when he moves out and with my C's help, maybe I can undo some (all?) of the damage...Karen

Karen, honey, you are NOT screwed up. You are a WONDERFUL woman who is WORTH SO MUCH. You're worth a lot and you deserve a lot!

Don't let this man pull you down. You are better and stronger than that. One day he's going to see what he's lost, and he will regret, very deeply, all the hurt he has caused you. He's going to realize what an a$$ he was/is to you. Trust me.

(((((Hugs)))))
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Trying to be patient - 03/03/08 12:44 AM
Karen, GF is absolutely right. If anyone in your R is flawed I would look at your H first. After all he's the one who's gotten involved in an A. That alone speaks of a severely warped personality trait.

When my W told me she wanted to end our M she glossed over the little fact she was having an A. At first I took all of the blame for the failure of our M -- and she let me take it too. (Even though I knew about the EA, she led me to believe it had gone nowhere and was thus not a factor in her decision to leave our M.)

For a long time I beat myself up pretty badly. But over the following weeks as my W continued to show zero interest in trying to work our R out, to any degree, I realized there was more to this than she was admitting.

Betrayal is such a horrible thing to do to someone you once considered to be your friend, let alone your best friend. That's bad enough, but to then betray the one person you swore an oath before God and all humanity to love, honor and cherish takes a seriously whacked character flaw.

I know that a lot of WAS who inhabit these forums are not really going to like hearing what I am saying, but if they were to be perfectly honest they would have to admit that, if the shoe were on the other foot, they would think no better of such treachery, were they the victim of it.

The saddest thing is that so many people must have this flaw.
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 03/03/08 01:51 AM
Karen,
What NoCode and GF said!!

Don't listen to him about the house either. He's full of crap. I'm sure it's not a pig pen! You had a busy weekend with the play. Life is not all work!

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/03/08 03:06 AM
Thanks everyone! I did get the house reasonably clean so H couldn't complain! then went over and painted the rest of the day. H dropped the kids off to paint about 5:30 then said he had to leave right away (of course to meet OW who he hadn't seen in 3 days!). Weird thing is he came home at 7:30 which with driving time (she lives one town over) means he only saw her for one hour which I was surprised about after he hadn't seen her for several days. I don't really care as much as I used to though whether they are getting along or not. I still feel H will be moving out in 2 weeks no matter what; he is determined; so whatever.

I think I've also realized that I think a lot of the names he called me this past year or so: stupid and making me feel bad for being a stay-at-home mom teaching the kids rather than working I think was his way of justifying his affair (first emotional, and then physical) because OW was a working woman, a lawyer and thus in his mind a better woman than I. Not just that but his way of not having as much guilt about the affair, like he couldn't help himself b/c in his mind she was a better woman than I. I don't agree with him, and I know not everyone would, but of course he and OW I think would probably discuss how I should be a working mom, plus discuss her husband and his faults, and bond over that kind of stuff. Karen
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 03/03/08 01:09 PM
Karen,
I want to see your H stay home and be a full-time parent, as well as a home-schooler to children with disabilities. That is MORE than a full-time job and most people COULD NOT do it! In fact, I really am in awe because I'm not sure I could do it! Sorry, but what an a$$. You may be right about him saying those things just to make himself feel better.

I read in the other thread that your H thinks your kids should now go to public school... I'd fight him on that, too. Not only is he ditching you, he wants to do the same to them.

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/03/08 03:39 PM
Originally Posted By: JoieDeVivre
Karen,
I want to see your H stay home and be a full-time parent, as well as a home-schooler to children with disabilities. Joie


Thanks, Joie! Yes, H has never given me credit for that, and in fact thinks less of me for that I think which isn't right! I don't believe he ever has understood the value of that, even before his affair started, maybe part of our problems.

I'm also thinking that instead of putting the majority of the blame of the marriage problems on myself for my depression, probably a good part of the depression was helped by H's name-calling of me and making me feel poorly about myself. I need to work on boosting my self-confidence so that doesn't happen again, but I also think I need to stop blaming myself for all or most of the marriage problems too.

I did enjoy last night when H got home, he was quizzing me about the money I spent (as I've said before H is cheap with us although he calls it "frugal") I wound up spending the $40 he had left me when he went on the trip and I told him I had spent most of it when I had gone out on Sat. night with "friends" really a girlfriend and a married couple of course, but I didn't tell H that, and then later that night out of the blue he asked, Well where did you go Sat. night and spend my money? So I told him the name of the restaurant and the bar (they are nice places). And H said "Well, I don't want any details!" And then I said, And it would have been even more expensive if somebody hadn't bought me a drink at the bar! (Really just the husband had bought a round of drinks for everyone but I didn't tell him that!) Karen
Posted By: Yoyowife Re: Trying to be patient - 03/03/08 09:23 PM
Karen,
You go girl!!! By the way don't ever let him tell you that a SAHM isn't a job. I've always said my real job started when I got home in the afternoon!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/04/08 12:46 AM
My H used to be the same way. He would make me feel like I didn't contribute anything because all I did was 'sit on my a$$' at home all day. What a crock!

After we S'ed and H saw what it was like being at home all day with a rowdy and stubborn toddler, taking S12 and S8 here and there, having to buy the groceries and all that other good stuff.....Only then did he realize it was NOT as easy as he thought it was. Only then did he acknowledge it and apologize to me for every negative thing he ever said or complained about.

Originally Posted By: karen43
I'm also thinking that...probably a good part of the depression was helped by H's name-calling of me and making me feel poorly about myself. I need to work on boosting my self-confidence so that doesn't happen again, but I also think I need to stop blaming myself for all or most of the marriage problems too.

I'm almost certain that has had a lot to do with how you feel about yourself. It sounds like he's been terribly emotionally and verbally abusive to you. It certainly hasn't helped you.

I have blamed myself, too, for the way my M turned out. From the very beginning and for quite some time afterward, my H blamed me for everything. Told me I chose his life's path for him, and sadly, I began to believe it (I don't any longer). I got pregnant, we got M'ed, I got pregnant again, our mortgage was because of me, and once again I was pregnant. All of that was my fault. He never wanted any of it. He was only here because he thought he was doing the right thing.

He has apologized soooo many times over the last year for ever saying those horrible things to me. He said he can't believe why he ever did that. Doesn't have a clue as to why he said those things because he knows they aren't true. He said he was just so very screwed up and lost his way somehow.

Quote:
...then later that night out of the blue he asked, Well where did you go Sat. night and spend my money?


"MY money". HIS money. I have heard those very exact words too many times to recall! Ooooh that freakin' gets to me! Just remind that man how much of HIS money you're saving him from not having to spend it on daycare! And on drycleaning! Housekeeping, too!

Aaaahhhh....ok, I'm good now.

I'm happy to hear you had a good night out, Karen! Plan for more. \:\)
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/04/08 08:48 PM
Thanks again everyone! I realized today that I've barely seen H in 4 days now. I feel like I'm going through withdrawal or something--I've been a little cranky and everything last night and today. I don't think I've ever gone that long without seeing H in the last 22 years! He was gone on the Daytona trip Friday-Sunday. I saw him Sun. night when he got back but he was tired and went to sleep almost right away. Then yesterday he was already asleep when I got back from rehearsal. I've got another long rehearsal tonight so probably won't see him again today.

I guess this will be what it will be like when he moves out in 10 days so I guess I should get used to it. I'm surprised I feel this sad about it, but here I am trying to fight the blues and I've got 2 more days till I see my C!!! Karen
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/04/08 10:45 PM
I remember how much of a mess I was right before my H left, and even worse when it finally happened. I lost something that I so deeply cherished, and the pain of losing it felt horribly unbearable at times.

You will grieve for some time, and that's ok. It's perfectly normal. It's part of the healing process. Give yourself time, and you will eventually begin to heal and feel better. You will be alright.

Hope you have a wonderful time at rehearsal and everything goes well with C. (((((Karen)))))
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/05/08 06:27 PM
My rehearsal went fine last night, and I got back to a cheerier mood thank goodness! My emotions seem like they are up and down and all over the place lately! H was asleep again by the time I got home a little around 10, so I haven't seen him really in about 5 days now--again guess I should get used to that since he is moving out soon. I'm not feeling that great today with some kind of flu today, but when I get better am supposed to do more painting at the theatre and will have rehearsals, (in addition to my usual homeschooling, cooking, cleaning, etc.) so hopefully keeping busy will help me get through all this! Karen
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Trying to be patient - 03/05/08 06:50 PM
Karen,

It sounds like you have a very positive GAL activity in the theater -- you notice this in how much better you feel afterwards. This is very good -- this is what GAL is for, to help you to cope with a very difficult situation and to set up new patterns of activity that will carry you forward in life, regardless of the outcome of your M.

(((((Hugs)))))
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 03/06/08 01:28 PM
Karen,
Hope you're feeling better today. I agree with NoCode about your great GALing practice! Can you imagine where your emotions would be if you weren't putting your time into the theater production?! Keeping busy is so important.

Joie
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/06/08 10:11 PM
You both are definitely right. The theatre has been a lifesaver for me. Last night I didn't have a rehearsal and H is just so --what's the word I'm looking for? tiresome, jerky, I don't know. He didn't come home until 8:30 so D8 was pretty upset by then thinking she wouldn't see him, made worse by the fact that he goes out every Thurs. night until midnight so she wouldn't have seen him till Fri.

He comes home and tells D8 he was at his girlfriend's (so OW is apparently already moved out of her H's and into the new apartment H will be moving into next week) and had dinner there so wouldn't have the dinner D8 and I had made! I used to get really upset when he was home late with OW in the past, now I don't get much upset anymore, it's unfortunately just my D8 that's hurt and upset but I guess he can't see that.

Then I had the stomach flu (had it all day) although I still homeschooled both kids, cleaned, spent almost an hour cooking dinner, etc. but didn't get D8's bath started until 9, she does her own bath but I still wash her hair, and H commented on how I am failing on my responsibilities again. I told him I had the flu so that was why I was late with the bath and she only got to bed a few minutes late anyway. I was up half the night sick with flu after that! I can't get over how he will comment on my failing with responsibilities right after he has spent a huge chunk of time with OW totally avoiding them completely!!! Karen
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/06/08 11:49 PM
Quote:
what's the word I'm looking for? tiresome, jerky, I don't know.


You can't use those words, they are saved for *my* H. I especially like 'jerky'.

That being said, ignore his spew, he is demonizing you to justify his actions. My H spent all of Tuesday telling me how much I failed our marriage. I listened and moved on with my day. Don't let him chip away at your great attitude. And feel better, young lady!!!
Posted By: SueS Re: Trying to be patient - 03/07/08 10:45 PM
Hi Karen-

I didn't see your post until now. I hope you're feeling better.

My H is the same way. Is out late doing who knows what and then complains because the house is a mess. Well, let's see, if you'd do more than just clean the kitchen once or twice a week it would help. If you made D3 pick up after herself when she's doing playing, it would help. I could go on and on. I just feel ya!

And once you're feeling better, I'll fight you and lwb for those words you used to describe your H! They'd work for mine too!

Hope you and the kids are okay.

SueS
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/09/08 04:42 PM
Hey Karen, hope things are ok!
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 03/10/08 01:32 AM
Me, too... How are things?
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 03/10/08 02:56 PM
Karen,

This last post is illuminating and infuriating.

Quote:
He comes home and tells D8 he was at his girlfriend's (so OW is apparently already moved out of her H's and into the new apartment H will be moving into next week) and had dinner there so wouldn't have the dinner D8 and I had made!


He tells your daughter this? Absolutely nasty and cruel.

It also tell us he's so far gone, he has no conscience.

Quote:
and H commented on how I am failing on my responsibilities again. I told him I had the flu so that was why I was late with the bath and she only got to bed a few minutes late anyway. I was up half the night sick with flu after that! I can't get over how he will comment on my failing with responsibilities right after he has spent a huge chunk of time with OW totally avoiding them completely!!!


More cruelty. But add to it malice. He's probably trying to build a case in his own mind, as well as perhaps documenting it, that you were "failing as a mom". Be careful. Make sure you keep your own journal of what happends AND when he's out of the house.

When he moves in with OW, your stress will drop. This will give you time to get your groove back.

--Theoden
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/10/08 06:14 PM
Thanks everyone for all the posts! I was busy this weekend! Theoden, I am not too worried about anything H can say about my mothering, I have been documenting H's habits/hours as you suggest and he is moving out and in with OW so I think he will have a hard time in court getting anywhere with a "bad mother" argument. At this point, he is so focused on OW he doesn't seem to care much about child custody as well (but I am still documenting just in case!)

Saturday I did a 3 hour dance rehearsal! and then painted the sets for 5 or so hours after lunch with my S14. The only crimp in my day was when H showed up at 4:00 and said one of us had to come home to watch D8 b/c he had to go (see OW and spend the night). You'd think he'd want to spend the time with his kids his last weekend with them, but no. I was also upset b/c he came into my "sanctuary" which the theatre has been for me where I go to get away from H and all his mess.

I was taping up seams with my back to him when he showed up and just kept my back to him and kept taping when he was there. My S14 yelled Me, me and was thrilled to leave early after his 3 hours of painting and practically ran out of there, but for some reason H wanted me to acknowledge him or something, and he kept saying, Karen did you hear me? I have to leave now. a couple times, so then I turned around and just kind of mumbled, Yeah, bye. Probably did not follow DB protocol here, but I mean does he expect me to say "Have fun with OW? or something?

Sunday had a lot of positives DB wise for me I think. I was having a really good PMA day, feeling strong and happy for some reason. I did about 5 hours of cleaning, I mean even the walls and light fixtures! H has been nit-picking (I think it was GF who told me about this) and finding stuff to complain about, and there is nothing at this point for him to find! I have lost all extra weight (40-45 pounds) and with the 3 hour dance workouts am in pretty good shape. When we are together like yesterday, we are usually laughing and joking and having a good time.

Yesterday he bought us both fast food lunches, not a big deal, but something he hasn't done in several months for me, as a sign of his separation from me. He also took me out to dinner with the kids, something else he stopped doing a month or two ago. He told me he was proud of all the changes I've made in my life, he wishes I'd made them earlier, but it's still good I've made them now. He also said he would watch D8 during all my play performances at least 6-12 while D14 and I and working on the play.

The negatives are that after about 2 months of him not texting OW in front of me, he started doing that again yesterday. I have to believe he is trying to maybe push me away or create a fight with me which would help with his guilt, which I just don't want to do. I would like him to feel 100% of the guilt as I think he should when he moves out this Saturday. Karen
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/11/08 12:41 AM
Originally Posted By: karen43
]H has been nit-picking (I think it was GF who told me about this)...


I confess - That was me! ;\)

Quote:
... but for some reason H wanted me to acknowledge him or something, and he kept saying, Karen did you hear me? I have to leave now. a couple times, so then I turned around and just kind of mumbled, Yeah, bye.


\:D I LOVE IT!!! Probably not proper DB etiquette, but still - I love it!

Quote:
The negatives are that after about 2 months of him not texting OW in front of me, he started doing that again yesterday. I have to believe he is trying to maybe push me away or create a fight with me which would help with his guilt, which I just don't want to do.


Good for you! It sucks that he's doing this again, but I'm very happy to hear that you're in control of your reactions and not letting H get the better of you. Way to go, Karen!

Quote:
I would like him to feel 100% of the guilt as I think he should when he moves out this Saturday.


He may not act like it or feel it on Saturday, but trust me, hon. He will someday. \:\/ He's letting go of the best thing he's ever had. You. \:\)
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/11/08 06:15 PM
Aw, thanks GF! I don't know about that, but I do know H doesn't appreciate me much for some reason, and since he hasn't dated much and never lived with another woman, maybe it will be a good experience for H.

My D8 lost another tooth right in front, and she told me today that H asked her why she didn't tell him but me? He wasn't around at the time of course, so I became the "tooth fairy" that night. \:\) It sounds like he was a little miffed he was left out, but I would think he needs to realize that this will happen a lot in the future when he moves out in FOUR DAYS!!!

My H kissed D8 on the head and said ILY when he left for work this am. I then kissed her also and said ILYtoo. She said I love you Mom and Dad too, even though he is moving out to spend most of his time with his girlfriend!" Okay, I didn't know what to say to that--it is the truth so I didn't want to tell her a lie, I didn't know what to say to that, so I said nothing.

Been keeping busy as usual with the play, now they have us dancing & singing every night, teaching the kids, cleaning, etc. Although H will be going soon I feel surprisingly strong and OK. \:o Karen
Posted By: SueS Re: Trying to be patient - 03/11/08 06:28 PM
Karen- You sound very strong. Like it or not, it will still probably be hard when he actually leaves. We'll be here for ya!

I'm not sure if you saw my thread or not. Joie commented on how far apart on the spectrum our sitchs are. Your H is out in the open about things and you know what's going on. My H is very, very secretive about things and although I know a bit about what's in the works, I haven't gotten it from him.

I'm proud of you and amazed by you for how you are able to keep up with your kids and do all the things you're doing. You are a strong woman.

Take care-

SueS
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/11/08 06:51 PM
Thanks, Sue! I hadn't seen it, but just visited your thread and posted. Thanks! Karen
Posted By: Yoyowife Re: Trying to be patient - 03/11/08 07:03 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43

but for some reason H wanted me to acknowledge him or something, and he kept saying, Karen did you hear me? I have to leave now. a couple times, so then I turned around and just kind of mumbled, Yeah, bye. Probably did not follow DB protocol here, but I mean does he expect me to say "Have fun with OW? or something?


I love it, that was great!

Originally Posted By: karen43
Sunday had a lot of positives DB wise for me I think. I was having a really good PMA day, feeling strong and happy for some reason. I did about 5 hours of cleaning, I mean even the walls and light fixtures! H has been nit-picking (I think it was GF who told me about this) and finding stuff to complain about, and there is nothing at this point for him to find! I have lost all extra weight (40-45 pounds) and with the 3 hour dance workouts am in pretty good shape. When we are together like yesterday, we are usually laughing and joking and having a good time.


You go girl! You are awesome. Right now your H is trying to figure out "who is this person and what has she done with my wife that made me so miserable". Keep up with the changes not for him, but for yourself, he will notice it! Talk about a PMA, you've got it!

By the way the way he so nonchalantly talks about his OW in front of your kids, ooooohhhh that makes me sick!
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 01:27 PM
Karen,

For your daughters to have to see this is awful.

It's important that you be able to tell them the truth (an affair is wrong, adultery is wrong) without totally villanizing their father.

In other words, I think it's helpful to say, "We all love Dad, even though he's making some very wrong choices."

And if you haven't talked to you daughters about the moral import of your husband's decisions, now's the time. I don't think having them grow up in an "I'm OK, your OK".
Posted By: NoCodeBlues Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 02:13 PM
Amen, Theo. Well said.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 03:24 PM
Rehearsal last night ran long. H was asleep so I haven't seen him since Sunday. I had dreams about H all night long. In half of them H was loving and sweet to me, which he probably really hasn't been in over a year.

Then I also had several nightmares about him taunting me about OW. I guess my dreams show how mixed-up I feel lately--I am really hoping H will be unhappy with OW and miss his family and return home after he moves out Sat. but then part of me realizes he may not ever return home, and I do realize that may be for the best anyway...Karen
Posted By: Yoyowife Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 04:32 PM
Karen,
I too have had those types of dreams about H and OW.

Right now I think you are doing the right thing by going dark on him. We all know that no matter how much talking we do to them to try convince them to come home, they won't do it unless they want to. Sure we all backslide from time to time. Just continue taking care of yourself and the kids. Let him see that you are strong and doing a fine job without him. You'll eventually find out that "hey, I can do this by myself". He may come home, he may not, but you know you will be okay. I do think the sooner we get strong, the better. I haven't always done a good job of this, but I do think it is the key to them seeing the LBS in a favorable way. It's not only for them, but for yourself as well.

I have seen so much growth in you lately. Keep the great PMA and GAL.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 05:01 PM
Thanks, Yoyo! I have a question and this is for anyone who cares to answer: When H moves out Saturday do you think I should help him move out or not? I know that sounds crazy but I read one of the success stories on the boards here where the guy did help his wife move out and they did reconcile eventually. I will be at rehearsal in the morning until about 12:30 so H will probably be almost done by the time I get home. If he isn't done packing, should I help him out any? If not, what am I supposed to do when H moves out? (I want to be home b/c of the kids.) Never had to go through this before and I want to be sure to follow proper DB procedure! Karen
Posted By: saffie Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 05:17 PM
Do whatever feels most comfortable to you.
Posted By: Yoyowife Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 06:14 PM
I agree with Saffie, do what you are comfortable with.

Personally, I would be afraid that I would show too much emotion in my face, but that may not be a problem for you. If this is your case also, you have a good excuse of not being there because of your rehearsals.

If you think you can hold it together, then just nonchalantly say "Let me carry some of your things out to your car for you." Think of it as moving a friend out of their house.

Again, it is a very personal decision that does not have a "one size fits all" answer.
Posted By: Dr LOve Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 06:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Yoyowife
I agree with Saffie, do what you are comfortable with.

Personally, I would be afraid that I would show too much emotion in my face, but that may not be a problem for you.


This is a fine line. I would maybe "ask" nicely if he needs help. It can be taken as being "thrown out" if not handled right. It you don't help if can be taken as "she does not care"

Ya are going to have to play it by ear.

Sorry was not more help
Husband
Posted By: Sara Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 07:39 PM
I think no matter what you do you will be criticized for it. Help him move? You kicked him out. Took the kids and did something? cold and uncaring. Stood and watched? Bitch. You can't win.
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 08:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Sara
I think no matter what you do you will be criticized for it. Help him move? You kicked him out. Took the kids and did something? cold and uncaring. Stood and watched? Bitch. You can't win.


I think you're probably right, but then the "can't win" thing has been going on the last couple months in my marriage I think anyway! I will have to be gone I think for much of his moving in the morning, then I thought when I got back I might do a combo of taking the kids for donuts but asking if H wanted any, and then when I got back if he had anything left to do I would help out. I will take Husband's suggestion to ask if he needs help so it won't look like I am kicking him out, but I think H knows pretty well none of us wants this in our family but him!!! \:\( Karen
Posted By: LL44 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/12/08 11:09 PM
I remember one dream I had where H followed me around all day, laughing and pointing at me. It was horrible.

Sigh. Helping him move out. I actually chose to keep the kids busy when he packed his stuff up, so they weren't too affected by it. I think your balance of taking the kids out and then offering any assistance when you return is good. Think of things he might not think of (cell phone charger, Advil, stuff like that) and tuck it in without a word.

Bottom line for me is: I wish H would be happy with me, but if that's not possible, I am going to support what makes him happy because I love him. Obviously I won't dress him to go out with OW, but you know what I mean.

Saturday will be hard, I'll be thinking of you.

Yoyo is right, stay neutral, don't say things like "I'll miss you". If you need to say something say "Have a good night" and stay neutral.
Posted By: theoden Re: Trying to be patient - 03/13/08 01:32 PM
Karen,

What a tough time.

I can tell you what you shouldn't do.

1. Tell him you miss him.
2. Tell him you want him home.
3. Try to change his mind.
4. Get hysterical.
5. Cry.

Helping him move? To be there or not?

I think he needs to feel the emotional weight of leaving the family, including your kids.

Plan something for you and the kids right after he leaves.

Theoden
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/13/08 03:56 PM
Theoden, I can promise you I won't do numbers 1-4, but #5 crying will be hard for me. I am the type to cry at those Hallmark card commercials, so that will be a challenge, but I will try. If I start I'll just have to dash into my room or something. I will be there with the kids, so H can feel the weight. I don't think he will realize it all until then; I think he has just been focused on the good stuff like being with OW. I did plan to do fun stuff with the kids all afternoon and evening and just being together I think will be good.

LWB, I feel the same way as you do, I do want H to be happy, b/c he doesn't seem happy right now, and hopefully this will do it for him as he believes. And it's really not been healthy for the kids and I to have him around the way he is acting, so I think it will be good for us as well (that's what I am telling myself).

Last night, H went to OW's and got home at almost 8:30, then was somewhat snotty to me, and seemed depressed. You would think he would want to spend more time with his kids this last week at home than OW, but no. Tonight he goes out until midnight, so Friday will be his last night with the kids (I'll be at rehearsal).

I realized afterwards that last night was our last night together, well that hour we spent together, and then I went to bed before him. It was depressing being around him, and this is kind of how it goes: I was telling him I just found out that for some of the quick costume changes during the play we won't have time to go to the dressing room, but will have to change backstage in front of everyone in the cast, guys and girls. I don't mind changing in front of women at all, but feel a little weird about changing in front of guys, even though they are friends. I told H about that and H said something like Yeah, I had to do that when I did a play, no big deal, you just have to get over that in a snotty voice like he thought I was weird to be thinking like that. But I think most women my age would be thinking like that!!!

I was in a good mood before he got home, but after spending an hour with him was totally depressed. I understand why he is distant with me after being with OW, but don't really get why he is snotty and depressed when he will be moving in with her in a few days. You'd think he'd be walking around happy! I accidentally walked into the room unexpectedly last night one more time before going to bed and he was texting OW again, which he does almost nonstop now (I don't think he can control himeself). Hopefully, moving in with her will help him control that, cause I wonder how he even does his job now (probably not really well!).

I saw my C today which was great and just cried the whole hour which I probably needed. I am going to try to focus on just the play and not H during rehearsals the next 3 days, and it will be over hopefully before I know it. At this point, I think I just kind of want this to be over with!!! Karen
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/13/08 10:46 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
I accidentally walked into the room unexpectedly last night one more time before going to bed and he was texting OW again, which he does almost nonstop now (I don't think he can control himeself). Hopefully, moving in with her will help him control that...


Hmm...how about looking at it from a different angle? It's possible that OW is sending the first TM. Perhaps it's her way of keeping in contact with your H to control him. She knows he's there at home with YOU, and not her. She's got her own agenda, kwim? She's looking out for what SHE wants, and no one else.

Something tells me he's going to get very tired of it one day. \:\/

(((((Karen)))))
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/14/08 03:39 PM
GF, I think H is addicted to her though b/c he checks frequently to see if OW has texted him. I don't think he even realizes he does that at this point it's such a habit for him. I don't know what OW's motivation is for the constant messaging, but think it is rude of her when H spends so little time with the kids, and then she has to text him whatever time he does spend with them.

I do think OW's probably a little worried about me b/c H has probably told her I've made every change he's ever wanted plus more. I've lost tons of weight, etc. She probably is nervous. But yet I am sure he will be moving out tomorrow b/c he says I made the changes too late (because he has now met the perfect woman is that what he means???). I do think it will be interesting to see what happens with their affair now that it will be "real" and not just texting and hotel visits.

I will still be seeing H even when he moves out b/c he will have to visit the kids here on the weekend because he will be living with OW. So we will see...I think I will be OK no matter what happens. I do hope H doesn't file for divorce right away which I have a feeling will be the next thing OW will be pressuring H to do. First I think she pressured or encouraged him to move out, and then once he does that, I think she will start pressuring or encouraging him to file for divorce. Hopefully H will get tired of her trying to control him, but since I am the complete opposite maybe that is what he is looking for in a relationship now? Karen
Posted By: SueS Re: Trying to be patient - 03/14/08 04:19 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
I think I will be OK no matter what happens. I do hope H doesn't file for divorce right away which I have a feeling will be the next thing OW will be pressuring H to do. First I think she pressured or encouraged him to move out, and then once he does that, I think she will start pressuring or encouraging him to file for divorce. Hopefully H will get tired of her trying to control him, but since I am the complete opposite maybe that is what he is looking for in a relationship now? Karen


Karen- A few responses to your comments, questions.

Yes, lady you will be OK no matter what happens. It will hurt and I'm sure not be easy, but in the end, you'll be ok. Yeah, OW will probably pressure him on some things. Don't be so sure that your H is looking for someone who is controlling. He might be someone whose not really sure what he wants. If she is controlling, it might be too much control. My H was married before. His ex was VERY controlling. I, am not. He's not happy with either one. He felt she was too controlling, yet he claims to have no respect for me because he does what he wants, when he wants. It's not that I have never said my peace, I just didn't want to rock the boat because I could see him getting angry when I would. He wasn't happy either way. I don't think any man truly will want to be controlled. Your H probably already feels "controlled" because he has a W & kids. Does that make sense?

And who knows what your H has told OW about your changes. He may not have said anything. Just him being at the house with you is enough to probably bother her. He says your changes are too late, but yet he acknowledges them.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. You and the kids.....and even your H are in my thoughts and prayers.

SueS
Posted By: JoieDeVivre Re: Trying to be patient - 03/14/08 05:39 PM
Karen,
I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, too (and your kids).

As far as the constant messaging ... sounds like they're still in the fantasy stage. Reality will sink in when soon enough.

Just keep your PMA up, keep GALing, keep smiling, laughing, etc. Remember you're doing that for you, not him.

Joie
Posted By: alwayshoping Re: Trying to be patient - 03/14/08 06:09 PM
Karen,

I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this. I have been following your story and I can relate to your sitch in many ways.

I am not sure that I can offer much advice as my sitch continues to get worse by the day regardless of what I do whether proper DBing or praying or whatever else.

Other than detaching and focusing on you and the kids. In the end we can't do anything about how our H's feel right now other than respect it as we would a friend of ours. Which is terribly hard to do because so many of H's choices affect you and the children. Respect his choice, be strong for yourself and the children.

I think our H's get caught up in the thought of life being so much better if they leave their current sitch. Once reality sets in...then the truth be told about whether or not they were right or wrong.

This process can be painful for all involved, but the bottom line is to always follow what you feel is right for you and the kids. The rest will fall into place!!!!

My heart goes out to you!
Posted By: GoingForward Re: Trying to be patient - 03/14/08 06:12 PM
Originally Posted By: karen43
.... (because he has now met the perfect woman is that what he means???)....


That's the endorphins talking. Nothing more.

(((Stay strong, Karen.)))
Posted By: karen43 Re: Trying to be patient - 03/14/08 09:14 PM
I think it's starting to really hit me finally that H is leaving tomorrow. I'm feeling so depressed and cranky (with the kids). You know it's bad when you can't stand to be around yourself !!! I've got rehearsal tonight so maybe that will help. But I have to act a lot, have a lot of lines tonight, so I'm not looking forward to that b/c I think my mind won't be on it. I just feel like I want to go to bed and cry for the next day or two, but can't with the kids, the play, and not wanting H to know I feel this way! Karen
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