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NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: 2940831

NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/05/07 11:14 PM

Hey, guys --

Here's the link to my last thread:
http://tinyurl.com/ys4dt9

Need help quickly! Am a mess in tears and feeling like I want to cry to H... Need to calm down and pull myself together... HELP!!!!!!

He called me back this morning around 11 and we set up lunch together at the office to go over business stuff at 1. I did fine during our meeting. I didn't talk unless he did - no mindless chitter chatter... It was really awkward at first... We both just kind of sat there, AND I purposely did not start chitter-chatting. I just waited for him to say something, and then when we finished talking about that I would wait again... It felt kind of weird. I kept thinking, "gosh, we haven't seen each other in almost a week and a half and we have NOTHING to talk about??? Wow, he's REALLY going to want to be with ME!!" But I didn't want to chitter chatter, so I just let it be. Is this normal to feel so awkward? It's almost like we've grown so far apart now.... I think that's why I'm so upset... The hug (more to follow on that) was like "I love you, but we're not going to work this out." That wasn't said, and I know my mind is probably just playing tricks with me, but I'm so scared....

I did end up asking him about his brother - whether he knew or not. I tried to be casual about it, asked a question about construction that his brother is doing and then said, "Oh, by the way, did you tell your brother or any of the construction guys or anyone else about us?" He said no. I asked him to please tell me if he did tell someone, and he said he would. And I left it at that. I don't know what he told them for why he was gone from the job site for two days... Oh, well. That's his deal.

So we had a nice business conversation. I told him I liked his haircut (he seemed embarrassed and changed the subject really fast...) He didn't even ASK about Vegas at all! I think he thought if he did I would ask where he went, and he didn't want to go there....

We finished our meeting and got up, and I asked for a hug (I know I shouldn't have). He said sure and gave me a nice, big, strong hug. It felt so nice. Then he left to go run some errands.

So, now I'm a wreck... I'm a ball of stomach wrenching tears and am scared I'm going to lose it and go crying to him... I'm so tired of the pain... I just want this all to get better... I miss him so much... HELP!!!!!!!
Posted By: Holly06

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/05/07 11:34 PM

Awww sweetie.
It is always like that. There is just not other way but to go through it.
It is the worst pain you will ever know. Been there.
The way through it is to work on your patience and let him go.
That is the only way back to you, and that is for him to go very far away first. Farther than he is now.
He can not turn around until he has gone through lots of stuff.
The way it works is your pain is all up front. Now. It stays this way for awhile.
It really sucks, I know.
He is in alot of pain too. Just not as bad as yours.
But his is coming. He is running and hiding from it, but it will catch up with him.
So my advice to you is stay away from contacting him. He needs to drift farther and farther away. That is the process, the journey that he has to take.
Let him go.


There is an old saying I learned when I was 14. Very popular in the 70's. I am sure you have heard it.
If you love something, let it go.
If it comes back, it's yours.
If it doesn't, it never really was.

So cry. Scream. Find a therapist and some meds.
Find a friend who can give you the support you need. You will wear out alot of friends, that's OK.
They will not understand. They will want you to dump H. and move on.
We are here.
We can guide you, because we have been there and are still experiencing this.

So stay away from the phone if you are going to call H. Do not text, do not email.
Deal with the pain in anyway without contacting him, or you will delay his trip.
You see, he does still love you. It is just to painful to be such a failure in your eyes. He has to run. His pain is intense too.
One thing that I did.
I wanted to run from my pain too. I would do anything (legal) to get rid of the pain. But we are mature and sane. We will deal with it now. Just remember that you would do anything to get rid of the pain.
That is what H is doing. He is running, self medicating, changing, trying to fight the calendar, everything and anything. Drinking and other less than desirable things.
He will find something to escape. He will. Accept that, but he will be accountable for it later in his life.
Just use your pain now to understand that he will go to lenghts to feel better.
Hope this helps.
Holly
Posted By: Holly06

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/05/07 11:34 PM

Awww sweetie.
It is always like that. There is just not other way but to go through it.
It is the worst pain you will ever know. Been there.
The way through it is to work on your patience and let him go.
That is the only way back to you, and that is for him to go very far away first. Farther than he is now.
He can not turn around until he has gone through lots of stuff.
The way it works is your pain is all up front. Now. It stays this way for awhile.
It really sucks, I know.
He is in alot of pain too. Just not as bad as yours.
But his is coming. He is running and hiding from it, but it will catch up with him.
So my advice to you is stay away from contacting him. He needs to drift farther and farther away. That is the process, the journey that he has to take.
Let him go.


There is an old saying I learned when I was 14. Very popular in the 70's. I am sure you have heard it.
If you love something, let it go.
If it comes back, it's yours.
If it doesn't, it never really was.

So cry. Scream. Find a therapist and some meds.
Find a friend who can give you the support you need. You will wear out alot of friends, that's OK.
They will not understand. They will want you to dump H. and move on.
We are here.
We can guide you, because we have been there and are still experiencing this.

So stay away from the phone if you are going to call H. Do not text, do not email.
Deal with the pain in anyway without contacting him, or you will delay his trip.
You see, he does still love you. It is just to painful to be such a failure in your eyes. He has to run. His pain is intense too.
One thing that I did.
I wanted to run from my pain too. I would do anything (legal) to get rid of the pain. But we are mature and sane. We will deal with it now. Just remember that you would do anything to get rid of the pain.
That is what H is doing. He is running, self medicating, changing, trying to fight the calendar, everything and anything. Drinking and other less than desirable things.
He will find something to escape. He will. Accept that, but he will be accountable for it later in his life.
Just use your pain now to understand that he will go to lenghts to feel better.
Hope this helps.
Holly
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/05/07 11:45 PM

Thanks, Holly. I appreciate your insight. It really helps.

I just can't seem to pull myself together. I'm so scared of losing him, so scared of NEVER getting my life back... So tired of the hurting.... So tired of being so far behind on my work... So tired of not ENJOYING my work anymore... So tired of not being able to work with him as closely on the business anymore... So tired...........

I just can't stop crying. Have taken a Xanax.... I miss him... I just want him to hold me again, to tell me it's going to be all right. God, help me... I've never felt this much pain......
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 12:17 AM

2940,

I have not read your thread except this post, but will read it and comment later. Only wanted to say to you, this DOES pass. Your pain is not eternal and it is not fatal. It's great for diets, lousy for sleeping, and a gross terrifying experience deep in the gut. Been there, done that. Good for you on the xanax. If you still want to call him in an hour, see how high the dose is and take another if its not too much. (I'm not a doctor, but I have played one on tv, and my Hmlcer is a doctor, so I'm sure I know almost as much as they do...). Keep posting here. When I was at my worst, I read a Marianne Williamson book on anger/fear--she has written many and I forgot which one said this, but it's an exercise that worked for me. When I could, usually in the shower, I'd say a prayer of sorts out loud to God. Use your "higher power/universe" etc./whatever works for you. My "prayer" was more of a mantra but I just said to God, "I turn my pain and anger over to you God." I said this sometimes, 100 times in the shower. Crazy stuff, but it helped, and won't hurt to try. Saying it out loud somehow reaches our inner psyche more than just to ourselves. Later I did something similar to calm down, if I thought H was going to call. Kept me from spewing. Sometimes had to "forgive H" out loud too, before his calls. Like a 100 times. He'll never knew what it took for me not to scream/spew, etc. The "mantras" ....and xanax....

But here are the answers to the scary questions we all ask ourselves at our darkest moments. We search for meaning in our pain. What caused it, how to prevent it from happening again, how to Comprehend any of it.....We want this to MEAN something..I only know what this crap does NOT mean. (Using "he", but can apply to either gender, and I detest having to even say that, but I'm sooo pc...)

Having a walk away spouse/MLCer/ cheater/ whatever, well, HERE IS WHAT IT DOES NOT MEAN:

1) we are UNlovable. If we were, we'd have no friends or close family, and be unable to hold a job down, or we'd be in jail/mental hospital.

2) he/she never loved you and it was all an illusion
3) he DID love you once, but you were so unworthy, he just stopped loving you.
4) when he got to know the "real" you, he just stopped loving you.
5) he was a jerk and you were blind to it until now.
6) he was not a jerk, but you turned him into one.
7) you don't know how to give love.
8) you don't know how to receive love.
9) you will never be loved again, if you ever were.
10) you will never be happy again.
11) God let this happen because you deserve it.
Well, since we now know what the poop we are experiencing does NOT mean, we just need to remind ourselves of it. Often.

Know all this, and you will make it through to the other side. That does not mean D or any particular outcome thing EXCEPT that you will "make it." Meaning your life will get better. Gotta go read your thread.
j-
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 12:26 AM

Tam

Stop this right now...get a grip. You feel weird because you
have been on this dependency trip for a long time...it is the
only comfort you know...so when you try to let go, which is
what you must do - it feels like you are going to die.

When you see your therapist again - stop talking about your
marriage...talk to her about how to cope and control your
emotions...Jody will help you with DB. You are a mess, my
friend. You need to stop focusing on H...we keep telling you
this, over and over.
Posted By: Holly06

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 12:31 AM

I have 2 prayers, 1 for me, and 1 for TJ.
breathe in and breathe out,
in: Lord, help me to do
out: only what is right and good.
repeat, until you feel calmer.

the other one is for TJ.
Please touch TJ's heart, in the timeframe and the way that you know is best.

For me the one for TJ is the ultimate trust and faith.
He can work on TJ, knowing what HIS agenda is for our lives. It is real trust.

It gets easier to pray these things.
The first one really calms me down. Helps me through anxiety and lots of hurt.
The second one is more long term and heals TJ. If he is a better man, I trust that God will work his ways to restore our marriage.
Hugs,
Holly
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 01:27 AM

Tam...I really wanted to reach you from your last posting but you hadn't started a new one...

I think for the time being you really need to simplify things with work as much as possible...just email H and tell him your not feeling well and need a lighter load and you will take care of XXX and he will have to handle the rest for now...

You shouldn't have asked if he told his brother...you are still concerning yourself too much with what he does,says,goes....it doesn't matter who he tells, it doesn't matter if he tells the world...heck...I was the one with the big mouth here but I knew my H told a few people (his family) because they quit talking to me...yes it hurt but you know what???...It didn't kill me...what was killing me was hanging on like some pathetic helpless leach...I had never supported myself...I married young and depended on H for that...I met him at 15 yrs. old so you can see I was pretty dependent....you have the ability to make it on your own and you KNOW this...

Holly is no dummy at this....neither is 25yrs....neither is 1210...and neither am I...we have ALL been where you are...remember I told you don't have the corner on sensitive feelings...my whole world colapsed around me...I told you only a speck of the things that went wrong during the first year H was gone...you have not experienced that at all..

I do feel that spending time with H and his family now is the wrong thing for you to do...but from experience you will do what you want...I think this pain is lingering because you and H did go visit his parents together and you pretended all to well that things were "ok"...you can't do that anymore...you done with the charade...so just let H explain it how he wants...I know Easter is coming up and you have mentioned getting together with family...all I can say is I hope you find the strength to stay away...it is eating you alive everytime you play "we're okay" with the family and friends...

I don't know what more I can say...you appear to be spiraling out of control from one crisis to the next...I do remember that when I would have to see H and then leave him I did the same thing...but I made sure I kept it to myself as much as possible because my kids needed a sane mother...I only used drugs for a few short weeks because they made me feel physically worse and I couldn't deal with the numbness it sent through me...I had to feel my emotions to deal with them...

You just need to let go...it doesn't mean your giving up...it doesn't mean that H will never return...you forget, my H told me there was NO chance...he would never come back...gave me absolutely no reason to believe otherwise...yet he is in the other room right now...he has been with me for a while now...he can now tell me he loves me after I tell him...this is HUGE for him to do...he couldn't say it for years!!!

So Tam...grab hold a' dem boots and pull up!!!...the only way to the other side is to cross the bridge!!!

"flushing you out of the bushes"...sometimes H would play games...he would purposely not answer to see what I would do...he could predict my reactions...I had to learn not to be so predictable...

What ever you do...DON'T call him, email, or text him...you have YOUR OWN JOURNEY...and if you don't take it...he won't get on with his...

Reread the posts here...you got a lot in a short period...read it again and again...you will survive...
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 01:27 AM

Thanks for all of your help, guys. I have finally somewhat calmed down (at least on the exterior), but now I'm in tears again because you guys are so great. It's so reassuring to know that you all have been through this and that I am not just losing my mind.

1210 is right (great to hear from you again, by the way; I'm glad you're feeling better); I have been so dependent on him for so long in most every aspect of my life, from personal to business to social to family. So letting him go is letting go of so much - I wish it was just as easy for me to do as it is for you guys to tell me to do it... I'm so scared to let him go, scared that he won't come back... and that thought just tortures me.... Ultimately, I just want him to be happy; I guess *I* just want the chance to make him happy, to make each other happy. I believe we CAN do that, if we both make the changes that we need to.

I must work on my dependency issues, work on getting a life outside of him, work on becoming stronger. It is so hard, and I am so scared. It feels like I'm throwing my whole life up to this point away - so much of what I've worked so hard for, and so much of what I took for granted and didn't work hard enough for...

AND I keep torturing myself thinking that she took him to meet her parents earlier this week... It's so hard when we don't know the truth about something - our mind makes up the worst possible scenario.

I am so envious of him that he has somehow found the strength to continue working so hard on our business. He works such long hours and just seems to get everything done... I have piles of paperwork glaring at me and so many tasks that have gotten behind. I guess I just thought at some point that this would all get better so that I could refocus and get caught up again. The more it drags on, the more I get behind. I feel like such a loser....... and that I'm letting him/us/me down.

Okay... time to pop another Xanax.... How much more of this can I take? I just want to find this better side of me that I'm supposed to be learning from all of this, and it was so much easier to work towards that back when he told me he was going to give us another chance... Now I feel so hopeless, even though I know I need to find the hope inside of ME - not from him.

God help me...... and please stop these tears from taking me over every day....
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 03:03 AM

Tam,

Hey you were doing so well. Doing business with them is tough I know. I have to talk to my H just like you do. But I was just like you and then all of a sudden it kinda came to me with the help of all you. I wasn't doing anybody any good, my self, H, my boys, his family, my friends. Actually I was making my self sicker. Not that I don't have so same thoughts but not as bad and I can am feeling like I am in getting control.

This helped me also to read these. Use what will help you and at the end is the same ole things that we do but shouldn't.

This is some advice I have gotten from the break-free-from-the-affair site. i printed it out and keep it with my DB and DR Books. Just like we have told you need to develop your strength and internal confidence while you try these 7 helpful steps. You must learn to control your feelings and to maintain Positive thoughts about yourself. This is for you, TAM not H.

These tips are for you not to manipulate your H but to improve you. These are for you (but you must want to)

1. ACT HAPPY Be positive. Be cheerful. Become an actor if you must and fake it. Have your mind set up and practice it.

2. GET A LIFE Just like we have been saying all along. Do things. New Hobbies old Hobbies. Just like you are already doing. Feel good about yourself. Read, massages, movies.etc

3. FOCUS on 4 KEY WORDS Ready!!! These are 4 life saving words---I WILL MAKE IT!!!!!!! AS they say this is your mantra. They suggest that you put it on your mirror, go to sleep with it. Wake up with it. Eat lunch with it. Write it on your hand so you can look at it everytime you have an anxiety feeling.
Learn body Language direct eye contact and calm, consistent calm tone of voice when dealing with H come Across as POSITIVE. "I can make it wwith you (if that is what you want) but if not I will make it with out you. Either way I will MAKE IT!!!!

4.TO THE POINT SMALL TALK. Brief and to the point. Business problems, concerns and what needs to be taken care of at that moment of during the day.

5. TEND TO AGREE--this one is tough. its kinda like "I don't love you anymore" You say It certainly seems this way Thank you for your truthfulness." I'm not so sure yet about this one. Guys will have to advise I am going down the list.

6. EXPAND YOUR RELATIONSHIPS--Go to lunch. Surround yourself with new or old friendships. People that care about you.

7. GET SEXY_GET IN SHAPE_----THIS IS FOR YOU----Exercise, enjoy yourself Take extreme care of yourself. Do Whatever it takes to make yourself feel good about you. You have to force yourself to do this. You need to be healthy.

The same old things not to do::::

1. Say ILY
2.Criticize complain,try to control
3. Say I've changed. If it comes up Just say I'm trying. because alot of times is rectivity to get your H back. He will notice if he sees you are trying and are really working at it and sticking to it.
4.Argue , Reason and Plead--They say the harder you try the bigger the wedge.(I'm still fighting this one. This one is tough)
5. Get Family involved ( I did this-not good)
6. Acthelpless, depressed
7. Tell him that we need to work on relationship
8.Let yourself go to pot---We have all done this We let the negative thoughts rip at our emotions and tear at our heart.

IT BECOMES A DOWNWARD SPIRAL THAT EACH NEGATIVE THOUGHT, WORD AND ACTION BUILDS AND BUILDS. A CLOUD OF NEGATIVITY KEEPS YOU FROM TAKING ACTION THAT YOU NEED TO SEE YOUR WAY THROUGH. YOU BECOME STUCK........
They told me that in the midst of the A and OW the intensity of the pain, confusion and agony is more than thought possible. You become emotionally embroiled in a strange and forein land filled with fear, confusion, mistrust as well as the pain of loss. This is where we don't want to go. We want to help each other to become wiser. Pain is described as when attended to , holds great potential for redesign of life and relationships.

Be gracious to yourself...Be kind to yourself..Look within yourself. It will be worth it.

REMEMBER THESE POWERFUL WORDS: "YOU WILL BE ALL RIGHT"

A HUG for YOU....... I WILL MAKE IT!!!!!!YOU WILL MAKE IT!!!

I am trying to make these steps work. I reread my Divorce REmedy and these all the time and the A has taken a toll on me. It has been since October and I thought I would never be able to get over the pain and make my self function. Tam, IT is a struggle everyday. If I call and he is on the other phone (I immediately think he is talking to her) Now when I think those thoughts I try and calm myself and think so what. It doesn't effect me. I only effect me. God you handle this one.

Take what you think will help you. The I WILL MAKE IT is a big one.

Please take care of yourself tonite. We are here for you.
Later....
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 03:06 AM

Tam

One othr thing MY SIL told me today. She said you don't know what he is doing quit trying to figure it out and torture yourself.

OUIT ASSUMING. What is assume. is is making an ass out of U and me.

Don't assume. We have to break that habit.
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 03:19 AM

2940,

I know you are hurting really bad, but you can not become an addict over this. This will cause you to really lose your H. Lin has stressed to you the dangers of these medications, have you looked up the side effects on your own yet? Let me tell you something, doctors DO NOT know everything. They do not have all the information stored in their memory banks. Sometimes they overlook things. You need to talk to your pharmacist and do reasearch on your own. You have to find alternatives.

Seven years ago when I went through this, I did it on my own with two kids work and going to college. It is har really hard but I just don't think the medicaine is helping you. If it were you would not be having all these bad bouts. I think you should try not taking anything for a week and see how many huge setbacks you would have. However, at this point you will probably experience withdrawal.

Are you seeing a general doctor or a psychologist? I think it is time for a psychologist who deals specifically with mind altering drugs.

My father had a stroke last year beause the doctors failed to read the medicines warnings. The warning was "do not give to patients with history of strokes or heart problems." No one at that stupid hospital read that warning. It was the main warning and now my dad can't talk to us. He can not use his right arm. He was bed ridden for six weeks and could not walk.

I do not want to make you upset but I want you to really think about these pills they have given you. Maybe its time for a ne doctor. I do not think the doctor has your best interest in mind right now.

When I was depressed over my sitch with my then boyfriend now husband seven years ago I was a mess too. Always upset. WIthdrew from college that semester (I did go back the next semester to finish though) I moved into my parents living room. I was so so so so sad. My dad told me one day.

"HS THIS IS IT! YOU STOP MOPING AROUND FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF, YOU NEED TO GET ANGRY REALLY REALLY ANGRY FIND YOUR STRENGTH GIRL CUT THE CRAP!!!! YOU DO NOT NEED THAT MAN. NO MAN WANTS SOMEONE WHO FEELS SORRY FOR THEMSELVES. EVEN IF HE CANT SEE YOU HE KNOWS BECAUSE HE KNOWS YOU AND HE WILL SENSE IT WHEN HE IS AROUND YOU. GIVE HIM NOTHING TO SENSE!!!!"

It was hard work but it worked, plus I did not want my dad to see me all upset anymore.
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 03:34 AM

We want to make sure your safe ((((((((2940)))))))))
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 04:45 AM

2940--

fyi, my H and I are reconciling. Okay? But it has been a long weird painful ----time!!

So you know, forget about how HARD HE WORKS B/C MEN DO THAT to avoid pain. My H left for a year long fellowship, and focussed his energy on the intensity of the material and the long hours exhausted him. I doubt he had trouble sleeping. Once the "test" was over for him, and his career goal had been achieved, THAT NIGHT he called and for the first time, really started saying things I needed to hear. I did not rush back into our R b/c it's scary and stupid to blow it then. It has NOT been an easy path and don't think if your h wants to come back it will solve all your problems b/c it is more complex than that. You will have mixed feelings b/c you will see him differently. I am not joining my H until this summer but it's good b/c I would not feel safe with him if his "return to H" had been too brief. BUT, don't worry about whether he works hard and what it means, blah blah blah. For me, all I could do was talk about it. I talked to friends, sisters, came to this board and told anyone who'd listen "how could HE do this? Doesn't he miss me/kids/family? Why? Why? What's going to happen, what do I say when he does/says/goes/thinks/feels??" blah blah blah!!!! ENOUGH about him!!!


I got sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. I had 2 sisters who had h's leave them, for very different reasons and my older sister handled it (22 years, worked whole M and had 3 kids) with as much dignity and strength as I have ever seen. My younger sister (M 13 years, no kids and she never worked) asked her EX H (at the divorce hearing!!) for a hug, (I swear) obsessed non-stop, cried from Florida to DC in the car with me, which has to be physiologically some type of feat (how much fluid do our tear ducts hold??) and she was crushed and broken and "terrified" as she put it. In short, she was pathetic and it repulsed her H. He remarried as soon as the law allowed, which was 30 days, b/c he had OW. So then my younger sister started dating as fast as she could, anyone who'd notice her, including an engaged guy who used her badly. In contrast, My older sister, "G", increased her work hours b/c she needed the money, and did not work with her h. She spent as much time with the kids as she could,although she did take a girl's night out at least twice a month and we were "there" for her as we had been for the younger one. She went on a few short trips with gf's. I saw more progress in G in the first six months after her D, than my younger sister in 5 years, and the younger one has been divorced 10 (ten, yes, TEN YEARS). Took her 5 years to get her act together. MY personal turning point was when a good friend said if I didn't watch it, I was going to sound like my little sister....OMG that snapped me out of it. So you know, my older sister remarried. One month before that, her ex called her to say, he "got it" and had f----- up. He genuinely apologized. Also said he wished her well, b/c he knew she'd found someone who'd treat her better. And she did. It still saddens her b/c of the damage to the kids, finances and she really felt they could have worked things out. But she has no more stomach aches ("is he really committed" "is he going to leave again???) and the M she has now is THE priority in her new H's life. She said, "Now that I know what it's like to be loved this way, I'd never go back to the old M. EX did me a favor, but I wish I'd realized it earlier." Younger sister has finally remarried a nice guy. Now he is very sick, which she knew would happen before they married. I don't know why, but I wonder if she picked someone she knew would die, so she could be a widow instead of a "rejectee" (HER words before she met new H). He's a good man, but he is dying. His children have no mother, and this sister cannot have children. His kids will be orphans except now she is there for them. I just wonder sometimes about Divine intervention. Sis wanted kids but couldn't have them and had no H anymore. New H needed to laugh, have a mother for his soon to be orphaned kids. BTW, his treatments have outlasted all expectations and though he will eventually succumb, he has maintained his cognitive skills, for the most part, and his sense of humor.

The only way to get past the pain is to get thru it. Don't prolong it. Minimize what sucks for you. Like contact with him. Go on a trip that takes planning and bring a sibling or friend who makes you laugh. Rent comedies today. Just the planning for the trip I took my kids on, took my mind off H for a while each evening and gave my d's something to feel good about. The trip itself also proved we could still enjoy life and have fun and be a family with or without H. Also bugged H, but I didn't know at the time. They notice more than we realize. But it was truly detaching from him and beginning to see that I could make choices for ME without caring about his career, preferences, etc. It was liberating and started to look just a little bit exciting to me, less fear and more wonderment, more bravery, more "what if I do THIS" Or live THERE??!!!" First time in 25 years I could do that.

Who knows why H woke up. His work goal achieved? Noticing no one else was around who knew him, made him laugh, loved his kids?? Had history with him?
My detachment? The trip to Italy? (you don't have to go that far either, just go and be upbeat, happy, and busy b/c you ARE A WOMAN ONLY A FOOL WOULD LEAVE!!"

Start acting like it even if you don't feel like it. Fake it 'til you make it ---actually a new approach to behavior. Used to believe our emotions caused our behavior but new theory is that we can reverse that. Meaning, actions/behaviors can change our emotions. Hence, acting fine, upbeat, PMA will help you get there.

Get busy with something UNrelated to H asap. No more asking for hugs. Pretend he's in Iraq and is MIA, or the African bush and cannot be reached by phone/fax or anything else unless it's thru lawyers if it comes to that.

You are stronger than you think. Ironically, the best chance you have of getting him back, IS by detaching and GAL and doing all the things you'd be doing if you knew he was NOT coming back. Make sense?


listen to the wise ones here.--Holly--you helped me thru a lot, and I don't know if you knew that. I remember some of your funny/helpful encouraging posts and so, "thank you."
j-
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 04:45 AM

2940--

fyi, my H and I are reconciling. Okay? But it has been a long weird painful ----time!!

So you know, forget about how HARD HE WORKS B/C MEN DO THAT to avoid pain. My H left for a year long fellowship, and focussed his energy on the intensity of the material and the long hours exhausted him. I doubt he had trouble sleeping. Once the "test" was over for him, and his career goal had been achieved, THAT NIGHT he called and for the first time, really started saying things I needed to hear. I did not rush back into our R b/c it's scary and stupid to blow it then. It has NOT been an easy path and don't think if your h wants to come back it will solve all your problems b/c it is more complex than that. You will have mixed feelings b/c you will see him differently. I am not joining my H until this summer but it's good b/c I would not feel safe with him if his "return to H" had been too brief. BUT, don't worry about whether he works hard and what it means, blah blah blah. For me, all I could do was talk about it. I talked to friends, sisters, came to this board and told anyone who'd listen "how could HE do this? Doesn't he miss me/kids/family? Why? Why? What's going to happen, what do I say when he does/says/goes/thinks/feels??" blah blah blah!!!! ENOUGH about him!!!


I got sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. I had 2 sisters who had h's leave them, for very different reasons and my older sister handled it (22 years, worked whole M and had 3 kids) with as much dignity and strength as I have ever seen. My younger sister (M 13 years, no kids and she never worked) asked her EX H (at the divorce hearing!!) for a hug, (I swear) obsessed non-stop, cried from Florida to DC in the car with me, which has to be physiologically some type of feat (how much fluid do our tear ducts hold??) and she was crushed and broken and "terrified" as she put it. In short, she was pathetic and it repulsed her H. He remarried as soon as the law allowed, which was 30 days, b/c he had OW. So then my younger sister started dating as fast as she could, anyone who'd notice her, including an engaged guy who used her badly. In contrast, My older sister, "G", increased her work hours b/c she needed the money, and did not work with her h. She spent as much time with the kids as she could,although she did take a girl's night out at least twice a month and we were "there" for her as we had been for the younger one. She went on a few short trips with gf's. I saw more progress in G in the first six months after her D, than my younger sister in 5 years, and the younger one has been divorced 10 (ten, yes, TEN YEARS). Took her 5 years to get her act together. MY personal turning point was when a good friend said if I didn't watch it, I was going to sound like my little sister....OMG that snapped me out of it. So you know, my older sister remarried. One month before that, her ex called her to say, he "got it" and had f----- up. He genuinely apologized. Also said he wished her well, b/c he knew she'd found someone who'd treat her better. And she did. It still saddens her b/c of the damage to the kids, finances and she really felt they could have worked things out. But she has no more stomach aches ("is he really committed" "is he going to leave again???) and the M she has now is THE priority in her new H's life. She said, "Now that I know what it's like to be loved this way, I'd never go back to the old M. EX did me a favor, but I wish I'd realized it earlier." Younger sister has finally remarried a nice guy. Now he is very sick, which she knew would happen before they married. I don't know why, but I wonder if she picked someone she knew would die, so she could be a widow instead of a "rejectee" (HER words before she met new H). He's a good man, but he is dying. His children have no mother, and this sister cannot have children. His kids will be orphans except now she is there for them. I just wonder sometimes about Divine intervention. Sis wanted kids but couldn't have them and had no H anymore. New H needed to laugh, have a mother for his soon to be orphaned kids. BTW, his treatments have outlasted all expectations and though he will eventually succumb, he has maintained his cognitive skills, for the most part, and his sense of humor.

The only way to get past the pain is to get thru it. Don't prolong it. Minimize what sucks for you. Like contact with him. Go on a trip that takes planning and bring a sibling or friend who makes you laugh. Rent comedies today. Just the planning for the trip I took my kids on, took my mind off H for a while each evening and gave my d's something to feel good about. The trip itself also proved we could still enjoy life and have fun and be a family with or without H. Also bugged H, but I didn't know at the time. They notice more than we realize. But it was truly detaching from him and beginning to see that I could make choices for ME without caring about his career, preferences, etc. It was liberating and started to look just a little bit exciting to me, less fear and more wonderment, more bravery, more "what if I do THIS" Or live THERE??!!!" First time in 25 years I could do that.

Who knows why H woke up. His work goal achieved? Noticing no one else was around who knew him, made him laugh, loved his kids?? Had history with him?
My detachment? The trip to Italy? (you don't have to go that far either, just go and be upbeat, happy, and busy b/c you ARE A WOMAN ONLY A FOOL WOULD LEAVE!!"

Start acting like it even if you don't feel like it. Fake it 'til you make it ---actually a new approach to behavior. Used to believe our emotions caused our behavior but new theory is that we can reverse that. Meaning, actions/behaviors can change our emotions. Hence, acting fine, upbeat, PMA will help you get there.

Get busy with something UNrelated to H asap. No more asking for hugs. Pretend he's in Iraq and is MIA, or the African bush and cannot be reached by phone/fax or anything else unless it's thru lawyers if it comes to that.

You are stronger than you think. Ironically, the best chance you have of getting him back, IS by detaching and GAL and doing all the things you'd be doing if you knew he was NOT coming back. Make sense?


listen to the wise ones here.--Holly--you helped me thru a lot, and I don't know if you knew that. I remember some of your funny/helpful encouraging posts and so, "thank you."
j-
Posted By: iluvme

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 04:53 AM

PennyMb, thanks girlfriend! That is so empowering.

Tam, I have been following your thread. You are on a crazy emotional rollercoaster. You are barely functioning right now. We feel your pain. Some of us is right where you are at. We know how gut wrenching it is to watch your H fall for someone else. It is unbelievable that they could change like that. But please listen to these good folks. You really need help professionally. Get your meds re-evaluated.

We don't want you to spiral out of control. Penny gave some really good advice for us strugglers here. You just got to push forward and think positive. Don't depend on H to dictate your happiness. You are such a strong woman. You are successful and ambitious with a loving heart. You have passion for your work and your relationships. Start forming your own circles. Don't include H and his family at all. No Easter dinner or luncheon with them. Travel out of the area if you have to. Take yourself out of the environment that is crippling you. It's not running away but removing yourself from the toxicity. It seems like a really silly piece of advice but when you act happy, you'll start feeling happy, and you will believe it too.

I have tried it and have to say it works. I do backslide and very guilty of PennyMB's #5 of getting family involved. But I do have some great friends who tell it like it is. It feels like tough love and hurts like hell. But tomorrow is another day. It will get better. Just wipe the slate clean and start fresh tomorrow.

Bless you sweetie. Get off the rollercoaster. Pay for an extra session with therapist if you have to on coping. Stay in touch.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 05:23 AM

HS...I wouldn't go so far as to advise that Tam stop taking her meds...i do think that maybe seeing a Psychiatrist would be best as they (not Psychologists) can actually prescribe medications..

Tam in your condition I think more then your general physician would be a good thing to consider...you need emotional counseling with physical support...I am not saying the medications don't work...or don't have their place...but caution should be used...

One thing that has come to me is your codependency...sadly it is what you have/had with H...and now you are forming it with us...you keep asking over and over the same things...you keep asking us to tell you what to do...initially we all need direction but there comes a point where we (the one asking for help)has to move forward with a plan...either what we glean from others...or what we have figured out on our own...

Tam...you have been at this for six months now???...It is time for you to TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR SITUATION...I am not saying that I won't be here for encouragement but I do think that you need to start moving on your own...codependency is not healthy...emotionally or physically...you have moved from your H to us and now it is time for YOU to focus on YOU...take care of yourself...and as Penny stated...YOU WILL MAKE IT!!!

We have all been through this aweful place...some farther then others...I still have bad days...last night I cried because as much as I had imagined my trip to Hawaii filled with romance...well lets say it was a great trip, I had a great time, but it was far from the romantic trip I had imagined...it hurts to go on your dream cruise and have your H want to play ping-pong more then spend alone time with you...we didn't have any alone time in 8 days we were gone...like I said the trip was fine...it was MY expectations that got me in trouble...see, even I still have hard days...now that we are home I hope my H will get a job soon...he quit his job mid-Feb and said he would have another by the end of the month...well that came and went...he said he would jump into getting one when we got back from our cruise...well he looked up on job but "needs to get his resume in order"....last time I heard those words it took him a month to do it and by the time he was ready the job wasn't available...
So you see Tam...we all have stresses and problems...but we can't just lay down and take it...we can't just fall apart and make the world stop for us...we have to take action for ourselves...no one else can do anything for us...sure we can be there for you...we can encourage you...but we can't hold your hand and walk you through this tunnel...it sucks...we all agree with that...some of us have more turmoil then others...I think you need to look at your case compared to some others...you have a lot more going for you yet you act as the the world is coming to an end...I will outline it again for you

Your H is still willing to work with you

He hasn't filed for a S or D

He isn't parading the OW around to everyone

You have a lot of opportunity to show H how well you can do on your own

You don't have children (they are a blessing and reason to keep living at times but it does add stress to the whole situation)

As much as you say your H is treating you so horribly, ripping your heart out you have to admit that he isn't bringing the OW around, he isn't treating you with disdane, he isn't belittling you, he isn't saying your a bad person, he isn't expressing his anger to you....

Remember some of us have had the OW rubbed in our faces, have been reminded repeatedly that we are not loved...verbally reminded, many of us have been called names, been told the OW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, been told we are worthless, unloveable, unwanted, a weight around their neck, and a host of other belittling, demoralizing, and undignifying remarks...

I listened in on a phone call that was arranged by my H to his OW when he was supposed to be ending it with her...I had to listen to him call her "baby"...and her call him "baby" and other sweet names...I had to hear him tell her how much he loved her and had thought about her, how much she loved him and how she really wanted a life with him, how she would be "okay, so he could do what he needed to do"...I listened to all of this and yet he told me upfront that he didn't love me, hadn't loved me for years, and how perfect she was for him...basically he was "giving me a pity chance"...and she knew it...this call was supposed to be him telling her that he was coming back to me...

So I know you hurt, Tam...but really and honestly it could be soo much worse...and I think you need to read around these boards...check out some books...and really start being thankful for the blessings you do have in your life!!!

Tomorrow is a new day...embrace it as one...and live it like it is meant to be lived...make your list...follow it...and focus on all you have...

I will tell you a huge eye opener for me was when I started working with disabled students...going to their homes each mornign to get them for school...seeing their parents come out with a smile, kiss their child good bye, wishing them a good day at school...these were children who were totally physically unable to do anything for themselves, had severe health problems, were still in diapers even though they were in their late teens...some had to be fed through a feeding tube, some were on oxygen, some had heart problems...some could die at anytime...yet these parents came out everyday, happy for the day of life that they had with their child...I then realized that as bad as thing in my life were I was much better off then these parents...yet they were so much happier...I then realized that they were happy because they had accepted their situation and lived each day as it came...no pity...if they could do it...so could I...and SO CAN YOU!!!

Okay...I need to get to bed now...I will think positive thoughts for you...and I want you to post the things that are right in your life...I want YOU TO TELL ME how much you have going for you...all the things that are positives in your life...we are going to shift your gears with or without a clutch!!!

Talk to you in the morning...
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 07:54 AM

Originally Posted By: imLIN
HS...I wouldn't go so far as to advise that Tam stop taking her meds...i do think that maybe seeing a Psychiatrist would be best as they (not Psychologists) can actually prescribe medications..

...


Oops, thanks Lin for the correction I was actually thinking in my mind I needed to write psychiatrist I don't know why psychologist came out instead, although some with a PhD and proper training can prescribe a few depending on the state. I know that she can not stop now due to withdrawal, I am just worried she is using them as a fix it all and the drugs are not really helping. She has to deal with these feelings instead of surpressing them or they will not lose their magnitude. When I read what you posted about the suicidal effects it really got me worried. So many people take medicine for granted.

Tam you seem to be by yourself a lot. If something were to happen there would be no one to call an ambulance for you. It is time you share with somebody so you have someone checking on you on a regular basis and someone who can sit with you to help you cope. Many people have already told you this please take the advice it is not going to make you look like a bad person becaue H left. It is not a reflection of you not being a supportive wife and you should not be embarassed. You need to reach out to frineds and family, that is what they are there for.
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 12:27 PM

Wow, I am humbled by all of your wonderful, encouraging, kind, "tough," loving responses. It would take me five hours I think (since I'm not usually short on words... \:\) ) to respond to each one.

I'll try and hit some "highlights" for now...

Regarding the meds, I'm seeing my doctor again on Wednesday and will talk with him more about this. Believe me, the meds DO help during those meltdown periods. The antidepressants,I'm told, can take up to a month to really take effect, and it's only been a week and a half for those. I'm hoping I will have a positive response to those so as to not need the Xanax, etc., for the short term meltdowns. I will talk with my doctor about your concerns. I have been seeing him for years and have much confidence in his abilities and will talk with him and see what he has to say. Will report back.

The story about the two sisters really helped open my eyes... although neither of them got their H's back, they both dealt with it, both during and after, in such different ways. I appreciate your sharing that experience with me.

Real quick, I saw H again last night briefly. Kept my composure. We went over some more business items, and he brought in a jacket and sat it on the table. He held it up for me to see (the back), and it had a logo on it that he had gotten embroidered for our business. Then he flipped it around to the front, and it had my name on it. I know it seems simple, but it was kind of him to think of me, even in the business sense. I thanked him and gave him a hug. We talked a bit more about business, and then he left. HE asked me for a hug when he left.

So, let's discuss yesterday and the sequence of events, as I've had a chance to reflect after reading your posts and clearing my mind a bit...

1.) What was the difference in why I was feeling so strong when I was in Vegas and then crippled when I got home? A.) I was in a position to KNOW that he was out of town for a few days - killed me. B.) I SAW H yesterday. As much as I wanted to see him, in the end it tore me apart. When I was in Vegas, I didn't have the opportunity to be with/see him, and I got a lot more strong.

2.) As much as I love the hugs from him, I feel like when I asked him for the first hug yesterday that it somehow made him feel relieved, like it was okay for everything to continue how it is, that I'm okay with that - not good.

3.) He was a lot more kind to me yesterday than he has been in a long time. What's the difference? My and his departure from seeing/talking for a while. Does this mean that he missed me (to the point he can right now) or that he is working more on being nice to me as a friend or something completely different? Who knows, but it is a start, whatever it is.

So... what does this all mean, plus all that you wonderful folks have advised me? There is simply no choice anymore but to do things that will help me get through this and to get on with my life. I saw some positive changes in H yesterday, though he was distant, and the fact that I was gone in Vegas and had little contact with him were the only things different from before.

So, as hard as I know it will be, I AM going to move my office back home. If I don't know when he's coming and going and have so many chances to "snoop" both at the office and at her house (she's about 10 blocks from our office....ugh), I know it will help me to control my emotions. I hope it will also help me to focus on my business more and work on getting caught back up.

I have a ton of work that I need to do over the next several days, so I'm not sure when I'll make the move, but I know I need to. My ONLY chance of getting H back is if I let him go - just for now - and get myself together and become a strong woman on my own. I sense that that is what OW is like - maybe that is part of why he is attracted to her.

If I don't see him as much/have as much contact with him, I'm scared to death that it will push him farther away and that he will realize that he'll be okay without ME, but it's the only chance I've got to make this work - AND to keep my sanity and grow as a woman. He needs to start chasing ME! \:\)

So, I am going to move my office home. Yesterday was proof to me that that is necessary. It doesn't have to be permanent, as it is a much less convenient location to where the job sites are, but it is a necessary step right now to distance myself from H. I got some positive results (I think) from going to Vegas, and I need to really SEE that and run with it, rather than make him feel like everything is just "okay" again.

I know that so many of you have been through much harder times than I have been, and I envy you all for your strength and courage. I will continue to work on drawing from your strength and support. I feel blessed that you care enough to share such intimate details of your life.

Lin, I'm sorry that the trip to Hawaii wasn't everything that you hoped for, but look on the positive side - at least he WANTED to go on the trip with you and your family. Baby steps... I know it's not going to be easy when my H does come to his senses and come back home - I experienced a bit of that already when he came home for those two weeks. This is a long, hard journey, and one that both I and he are meant to be taking at this time in our lives - for whatever reason, that is for both of us to decide. We have our own individual journeys to partake in. God help us to find each other at the end of our journeys and to build a stronger M than ever...

Also, for Easter, H hasn't brought it up, and neither have I. I'm going to wait to see if he does bring it up. If he does not, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. The reason I feel like I need to go, if even for just a while, is that his grandmother, who doesn't have a lot of time here on Earth with us, puts this together every year, and ALL of the extended family gets together. It means so much to her. I have no desire to hurt other people in my life that I care about, even if it means hurting myself further at some points. I care too much. Sure, it would be awkward to be around H and will probably send me into a meltdown afterwards, but at the same time it will mean a lot to his family for me to be there. I KNOW that this isn't about his family, that it's about taking care of me. But, as I said, I don't want to hurt other people along my journey to the extent that I have any control over that. So, we'll play this one by ear.

So, here's what I have going for me:
1.) My H nor I have filed for D or even talked about it.
2.) H has chosen not to tell anyone, friends nor family, about what is going on. I think he knows that if he did, all hell would break loose, and there may be no chance of going back... He would probably lose both OW AND me. And I realize that he has been playing both of us this whole time to keep his options open.
3.) H does want to stay in business with me. Although I don't think this is a positive for our romantic R, at least he hasn't told me that he doesn't want to even work with me anymore.
4.) Although what H is doing is mentally wrecking, at least he is not being verbally abusive to me.
5.) Although he would never admit it, I can still see in his eyes that he "cares." At least I don't see hatred for me when I look at him.
6.) His family/friends are very close to him. If this doesn't work out and they find out about it, he will have A LOT of pressure from them. I fortunately have built wonderful relationships with his family and most of his friends. Though they would support him in whatever decision he makes, I know they will at least not be telling him what a B**** I am and that he never should have been with me, etc. H KNOWS this, and that is part of why he is not saying anything to anyone.
7.) H has not completely moved out of our home.
8.) H is not telling me about OW (he doesn't EVER talk about her to me) nor flaunting her all over town to everyone.
9.) H knows that if he isn't willing to work on our R, he may lose our business, too.
10.) Even though H did not sleep in our bed the other night on his "drunk" night, at least he felt "safe" enough to come home. (AND I know this wasn't a good thing that he came home, but at least he felt safe doing so.)
11.) At the end of the day, I know H has a good heart, and although he would never admit it, I know it will tear him apart to have us go through a D and also to have to deal with friends/business associates/family. When he gets "done" with OW (which is important for him to do on his own time), I pray his heart will bring him home to me to give us another chance before having to deal with all of these issues. For now, he needs to be with her and see what it's like to be withOUT me.
12.) My H loves my parents very much, and they love him very much as well. Not only would it "kill him" to have them be upset, but I know he would miss them.
13.) Now, he's not able (or I should say is choosing not to) bring OW around family and friends. At some point, that's going to get to him. It's only natural to want to share your experiences and have fun times with the one you care about with your family/friends and be able to talk about them. Now, it's entirely possible and likely that he has built a R with OW's friends and family (and they probably haven't told them that he's married), so that may help him some. BUT, H's parents walk on water - to see the hurt and disappointment in their eyes is something I know he thinks about...

Now, the positives for ME:
1.) I have lost about 10 pounds over this! LOL Can get back into my "skinny" clothes again... Woohoo!
2.) Although I don't have many friends and family, those that I do love are very supportive of me. I may decide at some point to talk to one of them, but I'm not ready yet. Again, I care so much about others and don't want to put them through this hell either. However, I should be spending more time with them just hanging out.
3. I have grown out of my "ugly, growing up" stage and now feel like I am an attractive woman who is very caring, loving, giving, intelligent, and kind. I have a lot to offer someone.
4.) Although this whole thing has been absolute hell, and I haven't handled it the best I could have, I'm still here!!! Somehow I've found the strength to keep gettng up each day and work on making it a positive day.
5.) My parents love me more than anything and have/will do anything for me now, if it comes to that. They also hurt very deeply, as do I, when things like this occur. I will feel so much better for getting through this journey and keeping them out of the drama.
6,) I am a shy, dependent person, yet I will give of myself to/for othes to a fault someimes. This is a good quality, if kept in check.
7,) I truly have a blessed life, being surounded by such wonderful people, having done a huge real estate deal that we are selling and will do heaps and bounds for our business.
8.) I think I need to go out dancing and drinking with the girls at least once monh - the self-esteem booster helps right now.
9) I AM lovable, no matter what...
10) I CAM do this business ALL BY MYSELF if I needed to.
11) I have a big heart amd give to a fault sometimes.
12.) I am fortunage enough to be relatively healthy.
13.) I have YOU all who so strongly and faithfully get me through my meltdowns and get me back on track again. (thank you so much)


I'll leave it at that, lucky #13 (inside story).

So, where does this all leave me?

Well, I potentially have about 2 monhs until our current projects are done. I suspect that that will be a huge turning point for us, one way or another. So, I just have to put this thing into high gear, act as if we're through, make him "think" by me coming back home to build my office here. Patience and my depedency on him are my worst hurddles that *I* mus work on in my journey. Heck, even just going on that trip to Vegas by myself was a huge undertaking...

So, here are some plans:
1) Move my offie back home by no later than NEXT weekend, and just do it and wait for him to notice and see if he even says anything. (I'm still worried about this one, guys, that he is going to interpret this that I'm working towards builing a B relationship with us so that he can keep her on the side for his personal time and that somehow I'll be all right with that. To that end, the words I choose to tell him about this (if he even sks) need to be chosen very carefully and be moe a reflection on my independece than a reflection that I'm working towards having a B relationhip with him while he stays with OW. Not so much... at least not now.
2.) Finish coordinating the plans for the weekly girls' night out that we're putting together. I have all of the e-mail addresses, so I just need to send out the invitation.
3.) NEED to get back to the gym again. This was helping me a lot, both physically and mentally. I feel so overwhelmed with business right now that I feel guilty take the time out to go an do that. I just need to work it in slowly.
3.) Work on Sundays being my part work/part goof off day. I could hang out with a friend and go shopping, go to the movies, etc.

Okay, guys, I'm about ready to pass back out again. I must get a few more hours of sleep before facing this day, as it is going to be a very long, strenuous day. Probably won't be able to check the computer as much throughout the day, but please keep writing to me!!!!

Today is the day I work on starting to get my power back, to becoming my own woman, to loving myself right now. If H sees these things, I can hope pray that he will follow. Plus, we're getting into that 6 month time period for the A... We'll see. The better I do at what I need to do the sooner that may end.

So, complete separation from him on a daily basis. We'll need to talk by phone, but that will be much different than if we are face to face. Keep conversations short and to the point. Don't answer his calls somestimes and don't return his calls for a time. When I know I AM going to see him (business function or whatnot, make sure I'm dressed nice and sexy.

I also need to talk to my mom and dad more often. We have drifted apart so much since this happened, and I know they are sad (I just keep blaming it on the business), but I miss them. My fear is that if I go visit them (without H) that I will have a meltdown there, and that is NOT what I want, at least not right now.

I need to spend more time with girlfriends. I was already thinking about taking another trip somewhere again in May or so when the projects are winding down.

Well, gotta run for now. I can barely hold my eyes open. Need to get a few more hours of shut eye before this crazy day ahead of me hits. Don't worry, I don't think there will even be TIME for any meltdowns today! Ha!

Thanks again to all of you. Each of you has touched my heart is so many different ways, and I just want you to know that when you DO post, especially to us newbies, for a lot of us, you are the only strength we can draw from. You DO make a difference. So THANK YOU!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 02:35 PM

Dear 2940 and HeartScared,

HS, I have to respond to what appears to be medical advice you are giving.

First, it's all well and good to suggest she get a second opinion, (psychologists are not medical doctors even if they have the title "Doctor"-that means they are Ph.D's in psychology but you'd need a psychiatrist MD for a good discussion about the pharmacological process and the time for the meds to take effect. Most anti-depressants say that it takes 4-6 weeks for full effect). For you to tell her to stop taking her meds is irresponsible, and stems from a tragic event in your family, that MAY have been due to substandard care, also known as human error. Like you said, you are not an MD. I take issue with your mind reading of the doctor, who you accuse of not having "her best interest in mind..."?? Doctors are human and make mistakes, but please, don't attribute their mistakes to some nefarious motive. There is no conspiracy. And patients have duties to read the warnings as well. As a med malpractice attorney, and the wife of a physician, your post clearly bothered me. It obviously pushed a button-lights flashing, etc. So I apologize if my tone is harsh, but I really object to your "instructing" and implying that she is weak, b/c you did it all without drugs. You have kids. Great, me too. IMO, FWIW, It is EASIER to me to function with kids, than without. Harder to spiral and obsess when little ones are hungry.

As to your family's incident, I'm sorry it happened. But you don't know that the doctor even needed to read the warning, given that he may prescribe this medication often and has actually read something about it before prescribing, nor that he "failed" to read the warning at all. Maybe HE KNEW about the warning AND weighed the benefits vs. risks and made the best choice under circumstances that cannot have been optimal in the first place b/c your relative was already in the hospital with a serious condition. ( Like choosing which chemotherapy to give my brother in law -3 experts at Johns Hopkins said one thing, 2 at Stanford said another. Whoever is "wrong" isn't making a "stupid" choice, just a trial and error "wait and see if this helps" attempt to heal a serious condition.) Bad outcomes or unexpected bad events, do NOT necessarily = malpractice, let alone "stupid" professionals. Many people have this misconception. Do you know exactly her weight, liver or kidney metabolic functioning level - b/c diff meds metabolize differently and through various systems in our bodies, or what exact medicine and dosage she is taking? I sure don't. Last but not least, doctors are humans and make mistakes. They work a lot. My H's internship year he worked every day for 342 days in a row, with an average of 7 hours "off", which includes sleeping....Yep, 17 hour days for a year. THEN he did his residency... Don't make them out to be stupid or evil, not having the best interest of the patient in mind. Sorry your relative got sicker. But don't slime the whole profession for that. IF you are sure it was malpractice, hire a lawyer and sue.

2940 -- YOU are responsible for your health. Research and DISCUSS with this your doctor, and then go ahead and get a second opinion. I don't know what you are taking or how much or whether you are any better. But my younger sister took ADs and Xanax and as bad off as she was, she WAS A WHOLE LOT BETTER when she took them, than when she didn't. Look, We treat pain for broken legs. Sometimes we have to treat broken hearts the same way. It does not mean you are weak. Don't let anyone make you feel that way b/c they got through something without them. I am NOT pushing meds on you. I am saying you need to be in charge of your own health, by taking responsibility for it, reading the info and reminding a doctor if you think he needs reminding. Like US, doctors are not mind readers.

When I said, half seriously, to take another one if you were still out of control an hour later, even then I said check the dose, and read up on it. Don't take that as medical advice b/c it was not meant to be. I even commented on my "qualifications" as a joking reminder that I am NOT qualified to say something like
that. Allow yourself whatever you need, to heal. Sometimes a medicine taken appropriately is the lesser of two "evils" in that it could prevent you from doing something much worse or more dangerous, or harmful in the long run. good luck, take care of YOURSELF,
j-
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 06:09 PM

Tam...you seem to be thinking a bit more clearer in this email...hold on to that...when you feel you are beginning to shake reread what you wrote...you lists of things going for you and positives in your situation are much more then I could have written in the first 17 months of my S...see, I knew if you focused you could see it...

I do agree that with 25yrsMLC that children do give us a reason to go on and get up each day...but I must say that times seeing the hurt in them was horrible for me...to have your son tell you that he just pretends not to have a dad so it doesn't hurt so much is heart breaking...I carried my own pain in this and shared that of my childrens...in many ways it would have been easier without children...although I don't know that I would have pulled myself together as I did...I was forced...I couldn't just lay down and die although many times that is what I wanted to do...

I think moving the office is a great idea for now...I would just tell H was I said before to say before....

Quote:
Also...I would move out of the office without a word as well..when he asks I would say..."Well, I decided it would be easier for me to work from home and whether we continue in business or not my office will work for me at home!"...that way you are not committing to being used as a business partner should the R/M come to end at some point down the road..


This makes you sound in control of your end of things...it makes you appear to make rational decisions...just deciding without asking him adds strength to you abilities to function on your own....

I know now you are probably fretting about "what if he realizes he doesn't need me anymore?"...Tam, he doesn't want an emotionally dependant person hanging on to him...obviously his OW isn't or he wouldn't have been able to go visit his parents, he would be able to stay late at the office...see what I am getting at...when he pulls away from you your automatic response (and most of us here did this as well)is to start grasping at anything to hold on to them...when really what we need to do is start our OWN life...this speaks volumes to them...maybe not initially...but eventually...and if there is a glimmer of hope that things are able to be worked out this is a VITAL move to make...show him you can stand up to him, be on your own, take care of yourself, and have a life...

I liked your plan to go out with friends...dancing and drinking...not sure that would be a good idea...especially with the meds...and being in a situation of other men dancing would not be wise when feeling so vulnerable either...I would recommend dinner and movie...have friends over to play cards or watch a video at home...have friends over for dinner...go bowling...arrange a spa day...get massages, manicures, pedicures...whatever you all feel like...I had candle parties and Pampered Chef parties because no one would ask where the H was because those are typically women's nights...so plan something so you won't have to explain anything more then he is working late...or he is staying away because I am enjoying my women friends tonight...there are many things you can do with friends that won't expose you to OM...and won't involve social drinking...which with your meds and emotions would not be a good mix...

YOU CAN DO THIS...I KNOW YOU CAN...keep up the positive thoughts...keep yourself focused...and do for you...

I want to share something with you...

Love your neighbor as yourself....if you don't love yourself you really can't love anyone else...it all starts and ends with YOU...

Take care today...Lin
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 06:22 PM

Tam

Thank you...I'm still weak, but getting better.

Lin - 100% right...you could be my twin...lol

HS - great insight from your father

J - correct on meds


Okay...good plans Tam...but see the therapist for coping skills
and control issues. If I could get my strength back right now
I would give them to you. It would be easier though, if you
were in my office...to actually see you in person.

Why not spend Easter with your family?

I am concerned about your Xanax popping...they aren't mints.

Reread what Lin said over and over...you need to start helping
yourself - stop using crutches.

You will make it, my friend, but time is ticking...luv ya.
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 08:05 PM

Thanks, everyone. I was having another (more minor this time) meltdown a while ago and read your posts and regained composure. Thank you.

Today is a busy day, so don't have much time to post right now, but just wanted to thank you.

Saw H today briefly and talked to him on the phone a few times regarding business issues. Nice, pleasant conversations.

Part of my minor meltdown today was regarding work issues - I am so incredibly far behind and am just getting overwhelmed - overdrawing our bank accounts (I NEVER do that), bills being late, files not copied and filed, items STILL not over to the mortgage broker for refinances and not knowing if they're going to have enough time to get the refinances done in time now, etc., etc. I am really stressed out about it. I don't think if I worked 24 hours for two weeks I would be caught up.

So, I started to get overwhelmed about H and the work stuff and just took a few deep breaths (plus a Xanax - sorry, needed right now) and am just tackling one thing at a time. I can only do what I can do. I did ask H to run a few errands for me today, so that helped. He said he was "happy to do it," which was nice.

The main "problem" I'm having now is that I've gotten so far behind on my work that I NEED TO WORK so much to work towards getting caught up - I simply don't have time to GAL right now with friends, etc. I guess I just need to work towards doing something for ME at night before bed or something. However, I'm alone too much right now, and that is part of my problem... I really need to get back to the gym around other people there, get out shopping every once in a while, would love to go visit my parents (they live about a 3 hour drive away) but am afraid they will "see right through me" or that I might break down in front of them, so don't think that's wise quite yet, get together with some friends, etc. I still have plans to do the weekly girls' night on Wednesdays but have not sent out the e-mail yet to everyone for the first night - need to do that.

And while the meds seem to be helping a bit, they are making me so incredibly tired all the time. It's the Xanax mainly. So I hope in a few weeks, when the Wellbutrin is supposed to hopefully fully "kick in" that will help to even out my moods some so that I won't need to take the meltdown drug. Believe me, it has helped me a lot the past few weeks... I know it's not a "long-term" thing, and I'm not trying to make excuses, but remember that H didn't tell me until the first of March that he didn't want to be married anymore. Before then, the idea was always that we were going to give it another shot. So I've had a HUGE mindset change and emotional setback since then. It's like starting over, but much worse this time. So bear with me. I'm not even close to feeling as stable as I did before we went on our first trip... AND I know I may only have until the end of May or so (if things haven't been resolved somehow before then) to do my very best to learn the lessons I need to learn, change myself for ME, find the hope within ME, believe that "It's Never Too Late for a Miracle," live deliberately for what I want - I simply don't have a choice, and I don't have a lot of time...

H does seem a bit "softer" since I've gotten back. I look at that as a small baby step...

Okay. Gotta run for now but just wanted to thank you again and get you up to speed. Thanks for kicking my butt... \:\)
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 11:21 PM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


HS, I have to respond to what appears to be medical advice you are giving.

First, it's all well and good to suggest she get a second opinion, (psychologists are not medical doctors even if they have the title "Doctor"-that means they are Ph.D's in psychology but you'd need a psychiatrist MD for a good discussion about the pharmacological process and the time for the meds to take effect. Most anti-depressants say that it takes 4-6 weeks for full effect). For you to tell her to stop taking her meds is irresponsible, and stems from a tragic event in your family, that MAY have been due to substandard care, also known as human error. Like you said, you are not an MD. I take issue with your mind reading of the doctor, who you accuse of not having "her best interest in mind..."?? Doctors are human and make mistakes, but please, don't attribute their mistakes to some nefarious motive. There is no conspiracy. And patients have duties to read the warnings as well. As a med malpractice attorney, and the wife of a physician, your post clearly bothered me. It obviously pushed a button-lights flashing, etc. So I apologize if my tone is harsh, but I really object to your "instructing" and implying that she is weak, b/c you did it all without drugs. You have kids. Great, me too. IMO, FWIW, It is EASIER to me to function with kids, than without. Harder to spiral and obsess when little ones are hungry.

As to your family's incident, I'm sorry it happened. But you don't know that the doctor even needed to read the warning, given that he may prescribe this medication often and has actually read something about it before prescribing, nor that he "failed" to read the warning at all. Maybe HE KNEW about the warning AND weighed the benefits vs. risks and made the best choice under circumstances that cannot have been optimal in the first place b/c your relative was already in the hospital with a serious condition. ( Like choosing which chemotherapy to give my brother in law -3 experts at Johns Hopkins said one thing, 2 at Stanford said another. Whoever is "wrong" isn't making a "stupid" choice, just a trial and error "wait and see if this helps" attempt to heal a serious condition.) Bad outcomes or unexpected bad events, do NOT necessarily = malpractice, let alone "stupid" professionals. Many people have this misconception. Do you know exactly her weight, liver or kidney metabolic functioning level - b/c diff meds metabolize differently and through various systems in our bodies, or what exact medicine and dosage she is taking? I sure don't. Last but not least, doctors are humans and make mistakes. They work a lot. My H's internship year he worked every day for 342 days in a row, with an average of 7 hours "off", which includes sleeping....Yep, 17 hour days for a year. THEN he did his residency... Don't make them out to be stupid or evil, not having the best interest of the patient in mind. Sorry your relative got sicker. But don't slime the whole profession for that. IF you are sure it was malpractice, hire a lawyer and sue.
j-



I think you should maybe go back and reread my posts. I did not tell 2940 to just stop taking her meds. I advised a second opinion and to do some research on them. I did go back and correct myself on the psychologist vs psychiatrist post. I know what a PhD is. And if you care to do a search there are many programs right now where psychologists are able to prescribe medications as well. I know that psychologists are not MDs which is causing controversary over the programs.

I never said that ALL doctors were stupid and irresponsible. If I had I would not be advising a second opinion, instead I would advised a naturalist. I know doctors are humans. When did I say there was a conspiracy? Do not put words into my mouth.

You do not know the details of what happened with my father. You do not know what legal steps we have taken either, I only included what I needed to to make 2940 aware of things that can happen. If you are curious to know my father was not only given a medication he should not have been when there were ALTERNATIVES he was also overdosed which causedother doctors in the same hosptial to raise A LOT of eyebrows and there was bloodwork done which was not properly analyzed to see what was really wrong. You have no idea the pain this situation has caused my family because there are many more details that I will not share.

No I still think her doctor does not have her best interest in mind because by now she should have been referred to a psychiatrist. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I know that due to HMOs many times people are not referred in a timely manner. That is why I voiced my concern. I only mentioned going through it without meds, so she knows it is possible to find strength within yourself, it was not to be caddy and it was not to suggest she just stops cold turkey either.

I am aware of that different people have different metabolic rates depending on family/individual histories and organ function. I am also aware that drugs carry specific toxicity levels and every drug regardless of how "safe" are in fact not. Every chemical introduced into the body has a lethal dose that varies from person to person and will react differently when in the presence of other drugs. As drugs are metabolized free radicals are released into the system which can also cause damage. The drugs can cause distruptions in a body's natural circadian rhythm, which could be what 2940 is suffering from with the disruption in her sleep patterns. Not all side effects are even listed in the drug information, only the side effects from the test group are included. Since the test group does not include every single person on earth doctors still do not know 100% for sure how every drug and every drug combination will effect every person. I am aware it is also the patient's responsibility but there are circumstances where the patient does not get a chance to do the research or is so emotionally distraught they just can't.

Your right I am not an MD, not now, but I have had my share of medical/toxicology/biochemistry classes so that in a few years I will be a practicing medical scientist. I never said the advice I was giving was medical either so DO NOT assume.

I do not want to argue with anyone on 2940 thread, The only reason I posted what I did is because I am worried about her and concerned that she is ok.


Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 11:42 PM

Tam

If you are that far behind in work, then focus 100% on it. If
deadlines aren't being met because you don't keep up...that's
YOUR choice in doing so...YOU are choosing to drag your business
down...why? Because someone doesn't love you like he did in the
beginning of your marriage? How utterly stupid is that.

IMO, you are expecting him to rescue you...he won't. By not
keeping up your end, it shows him how helpless you are, that
you can't segregate work from the personal issues...that equals
weakness...another sign that he abhors.

You need to stop this "woe is me" pity party and get cracking
on the work...or you'll both lose.

Excuses....he started the A in Nov. 2006, he had already one
foot out the door thinking of leaving you. Don't kid yourself
Tam, or me...what does he have to do - spell it out? Do you
see how dysfunctional your rational thinking is?

Tam, I care enough to help you, while out ill...but you should
have been over these anxiety attacks long ago. Do I think you
should be on meds...no...you need to face your psychological
problems that you are running from...not hide them with drug
inducing calmness...until you do, you will constantly need
something to prop you up.

You have everything at your disposal...now start using it and
stop, stop, stop these pity parties...my gosh woman, have some
dignity, pride in yourself. You're acting like a child...face
the music of lovingly detaching from him or keep neglecting the
business, not showing up, crying, spying, melting down, not
paying bills and lose him for good...Your choice. Focus on the
job - like he does....

If you want to wallow in misery...I choose not to help you...but
if you want help in changing yourself, I will help. Let me
know...
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/06/07 11:54 PM

HS

Don't take it personal...I'm sure J didn't mean anything harsh
to offend you...ladies, we need to focus on Tam...she has a lot
of personal issues...

I agree Tam should not rely on pills....she shows too much enthu-
siasm in mentioning Xanax popping...a red flag....

HS, you made valid points... \:\)
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 12:38 AM

Thanks 1210,

I guess, I just did include enough in my original post. Your right we do need to focus on Tam.

I have found a few things about Xanax online that need to be mentioned although I know Lin has already posted information.

Xanax can be taked up to three times a day, but the dosages need to be spread out, in fact if a dosage is missed you are not supposed to double dose. http://www.drugs.com/xanax.html

Tam, when you take one, and do not feel the affects then proceed with the next, that is dangerous, you need to put about 8 hours between dosages not just one hour. I will post some links for you shortly.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 02:13 AM

Where can I get more information?
Your pharmacist has additional information about Xanax written for health professionals that you may read.

At this point I think she has clarified that her Dr. has said it is okay to take a second dose if the first doesn't work...I was concerned when she was saying she took a third on a few occassions....I think the best thing is to read all the information that you can get from the pharmacist even though it is for health porfessionals and then discuss specific points with your doctor...

Tam...I do hope you are getting a handle on what you need to do...it sounds daunting I know...but once you jump in and commit yourself to becoming the strong woman you are you will begin to feel much better...it has a snowball effect...much like the depression tumbles you down...the positive attitude can start to bring you up...this is really what you need for yourself...

I know we have been a bit rough on you...but with very good reason...we can't help you unless you are willing and ready to help yourself!!!

You can do it...I have faith in you...because if you go back and read my stories you will see that I faced some pretty huge obstacles...but I did it...and in many ways we are alike...I have that very sensitive side...will give the shirt off of my back to someone in need...just ask H as he is wearing a few of my shirts now!

Take care,

Lin
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 03:51 AM

Tam...just wanted you to know this weekend is going to be a busy one for me...I do hope you can spend time with your family...I understand about H's grandmother but I do think your mental state should be first priority...you can't be responsible for the world...and in all honesty, if your like me, you really place more on others feelings then they often place themselves...if H is there and all the other family I am sure there wouldn't be a big let down to GM...I understand you care...but you can't keep doing this to yourself either...after these events you are wiped out...your work suffers, you suffer...and I just don't see that it is worth it...plus if you faulter somehow at one of these functions it could have some really bad reprocussions...

My son in getting baptized tomorrow....we are so proud of him...we have a divine spiritual feast ahead for the next several days so the only time I might get to peek in here is very early or very late in the day...

Take care...YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Lin
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 04:56 AM

Hi Lin,

I hope this week-end is very special for your son and you and your family. Enjoy such a special occasion.

Tam,

Remember I WILL MAKE IT!!!!! I'm telling you this little saying helps tremdously. Because you will one way or another. When you are in a dark valley it is hard to see the top of the Mountain but it is there...I was like you I couldn't function. I had friends tell me that I couldn't go this way it was going to ruin my health. It is going to make my self sick. Once I kinda let go of some of the negativity I started to gain back some control. I could not dwell on OW and H because it will consume you and everything you do. Your work doesn't get done you feel like you are spiraling down that Black Tunnel and can't get a hold of the top and pull yourself up.

I found out about A in October it had started the end of Aug. I thought I would not make it thru this one. But after reading post on this site and different threads you get great advice but you have to take control of YOU. WE can't do that for you. YOU HAVE TO DO THAT no one can do it for you. There is no other way.

My H saw me like that. It didn't help my cause because he saw me weak and her strong. I have had to hear how admirable she is because she has picked her self up. (Not really her parents have bailed her out) but he won't except that because she told him how hard she had worked. I took it that everything that I do was nothing so it drove me farther in the black tunnel. She is tall and wild and no morals so it made me go farther in the black hole. THEN I finally woke up and said enough.....You guys are giving great advice take it and put it to use. It has been like a small cloud lifted. It hasn't taken the whole dark cloud away but it is a start and I know you can do it too. You have to, no one can do it for you. YOU have to make the decision I am going to not obsess about H starting with just a day. Tam you have the choice to become dependent on drugs or make YOU haveto make the first step and stop being negative today and become more positive. I have read and read the steps that I told you about. I don't use all of them at once but I go back and see if there is something that would help me be strong and become positive. I WILL MAKE IT.

I have finally come to the conclusion that I have to move ahead even if I fall back once in a while I am making progress. It mostly has been from reading all these threads and postings.

You are making steps. Keep thinking Hey IMLIN had made it, 1210 is making it, I am not a lone and we are all so alike it is scary because you think you are the only one in the world there are other people just like us experiencing this.

Well it is late. I am here for you... I am in a position about EAster where I finally asked if he had plans. Both of the boys are gone. HIs family always have big family dinners but I think he just wants to stay away from them. It doesn't matter to me. he said he thought he would come down. We will see. I was also going to tell you I am an only child and I haven't told my parents much at all. MY dad has Anxiety attacks so I am like you I don't want to upset them till I have to. My mom is a worry person. Mind you I am 48 years old and she still worries way to much. I can relate how you don't want to tell them. It is so hard.

Ok I have written my book again. Tam YOU WILL MAKE IT......

Hug for you. I hope I haven't said to much but I care for you. Please take care of yourself

I know how hard it is to be by yourself at night. My boys are gone so I am here by myself. It has been really hard because we have always had alot of people around now noone. I hated nights but I would be so tired I would sleep for a few hrs and wake up. I still don't sleep all the way thru. but I feel like I am getting in more control. You have to take control of your life and business. I had get a hold of our business because I felt in going into the black tunnel with me. Like you I have a lot of people depending on me with this business and my job. You have to get control I am here for you to lean on. Every time I thought I needed someone to lean on, I would say ok God you got to lift my shoulders up. I am not super religious but Tam it does help.
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 05:14 AM

Wow.... Where do I begin????

First of all, as always, thanks so much to everyone for caring about ME so much, a complete stranger...

Lin, it bothered me when you said a few posts ago that I was dependent on H and now dependent on this board... Am I posting too much? As you all know, I have not told anyone but you guys and my counselor about what is going on. I have chosen at this point not to talk to anyone else about this. So when I get scared and meltdown, as well as when I have good times, I feel like I want to/need to reach out to YOU GUYS. Am I wrong in doing that? I don't want you to feel like I'm "pestering" you... You all have helped me so much and given me the strength that I'm still searching for within myself... I will never be able to thank you all enough. Lin, you already have a few shirts off MY back coming to you as well... ;\)

Okay... (I should tell you that it's late, I've been working hard all day and feel like I've been hit by a truck and am exhausted, so sorry in advance if I don't make sense in this post...) About the Xanax... First of all, THANK YOU to all of you for giving me so much information/advice on this. I promise I will talk to my doctor more about his at my appointment on Wednesday... My Xanax bottle says to take 1-2 pills as needed (or something to that effect). So, the doctor said to take one pill and if I didn't feel better in around half hour to an hour to take another one. It's only been one time that I've taken more than the 2 pills... AND I won't do that again.

I think I told you that I got the Lorazapam (sp?) this last week as well. I felt like the Xanax wasn't really having the same effect on me anymore, so the fill-in doctor gave me that to try as well. I've only taken it twice I think, and it makes me loopy, so will only use in extreme cases... AND I know I can't depend on them and need to get myself strong and not depend on these meds...

I should also remind you that my doctor said it could take around 4 weeks for the Wellbutrin to kick in and to see what effect that will have. It has been I think almost 2 weeks now. I'm not sure if it's helping yet, as I'm not sure exactly what to expect, but I do know that I'm still having extreme mood swings, and sometimes it feels like they're only 30 seconds apart! One second I feel so strong and positive, and the next second I'm a wreck... So, we'll see what happens with the Wellbutrin, too.

Also, my doctor said that we'll have to watch things and see if I may have bipolar disorder. I read a bit about that and do see some characteristics in myself that are related to bipolar disorder but have no idea how to know "for sure." I guess we'll cross the bridge when we come to it...

1210, I'm not trying to have a pity party, nor act like a child, nor get behind in my work, etc., etc. I feel like my world as I've known it has been shattered before my eyes... I know you know that, and I know you've been through this, too. Maybe it's because you're so much stronger than me right now and have grown so much yourself that it's so easy for you to see me as so weak? I realize that it is a conscious choice that I have to make to act differently to get different results and that what I have been doing for the most part has not worked in my favor. I get that. It's almost as if I just feel so overwhelmed and am in so much pain that I feel physically, emotionally, and mentally like I CAN'T do this, if that makes sense? It's like someone is pushing me into the ground and I can't get up... So while I do understand that it is a conscious CHOICE that I have to just make, I AM weak right now, I AM hurting, I AM having a hard time with this... And when you tell me to just "get on with it," it hurts, because I feel so unable to do that right now, and I'm angry and hurt that I feel that way.

I honestly DO want your help, and I appreciate so much your writing while you are recovering... And your "tough love" always kicks me in the butt. At the same time, I don't want to feel like I can't tell you guys how I'm feeling - I don't want to pretend I'm feeling something I'm not or that I'm stronger than I am right now. It's not that I don't WANT to be strong, and I know you've all told me what to do and that it's not until I choose to do these things will I get stronger - like Lin said, it will be a snowball effect, either downwards or upwards, and that choice is mine... So I hope you'll be patient with me... I don't want to lose your advice.

Also, as I think Virginia pointed out, when this first happened in November, I believe I was in denial. Sure, there was the initial blow that socked me hard in the stomach, but once H told me he had searched in his heart and had decided to give us another chance, somehow though the pain was still there, it decreased so much... I was able to cope so much better, hanging on to the "hope" that H had given me. I now look back and see all of the errors in my ways in believing in his words and not choosing to change myself and grow and find hope with myself, and I'm not trying to kid myself now that this hasn't been going on since November. I'm just trying to get across my point that I FEEL DIFFERENT THIS TIME... I know I still have some hope from H (AND that I need to find the hope inside myself instead), but to hear the words that he doesn't want to be married to me anymore, that it's too late to save our marriage, etc. - 1210, I hadn't heard those words before. I might have supposed to have interpreted them on my own, but I guess I was so naive and wanted so desperately to believe that everything was going to be okay, that i just had to "wait"...

To that end, I'm not trying to make excuses, but I just want to be honest with you about how I feel and what I'm going through... I'm being forced to face the facts this time around, whereas before I was choosing to place my faith in the hope that we were going to work on making our M work. Virginia also said that it may be that only now am I beginning to experience the extreme sense of loss... Maybe that's what it is. I may not be explaining myself very well, but it's just different now, and it's a "fresh wound" so to speak...

Also, you may have already sensed this about me, but I've always been an "overachiever," a perfectionist... I've NEVER quit at anything I've started (except for one career I hated), NEVER given up, hardly EVER failed at anything, got great grades in school, received honors, exceled in what I did... Now, to feel like I even have the chance at FAILING at one of THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN MY LIFE??? I don't have much experience with this kind of pain and frustration, and to have it be something this important and this gut-wrenching to "break me in" is something I can't even put into words.... Furthermore, I have never really had any intense losses or suffering in my life yet. It was hard when I lost my grandmother and when the pets I've had passed on... That's about the most traumatizing things I think I've been through... And then "BANG" - let's just hit me with THIS?

I know I'm rambling... sorry. I just want you to know that I honestly am going through a whole new set of very intense emotions this time around that I honestly did NOT experience before. 1210, you sound as if I started this roller coaster in November and should be so much stronger now. For me, although the roller coaster started in November, it was a "kids' roller coaster" compared to the loopty-loop, hair-raising, flying backwards roller coaster that I got on a month ago - whether I was in denial in before now or whatever the reason was, I just did not feel the same sense of loss, desperation, hurt, sadness, and all of the other emotions so intensely. Whether that's right or wrong, that's how I feel. Again, I just want to feel like that I can be honest with you guys and not pretend... I know you get frustrated with me often when I don't do what you say - I AM very strong-willed when it comes to getting my mind set on something - AND I know I need to turn that drive into doing what you're telling me to do...

Yes, Lin, I DO fret that if I move my office home H will not miss me and will feel like he will be okay without me... And I guess that's the chance I have to take and hope that rather than feeling that way he will instead miss me...

I was thinking about something today that I wanted to ask you about... I realized in Vegas that I obviously go through more intense emotions when I'm alone, because I am not going to have a meltdown in front of other people, and when I'm around other people it helps to get my mind off this whole thing... So, the question is, if I work from home (even though most of the time I'm alone at the office, too), I will be there in my home office all day long all by myself, and that's when I'm at my worst... AND, as I explained, I am so far behind on work that it's going to be very difficult to GAL right now... What all this means is that I am already in a situation and would be putting myself in another situation where I'm at my worst... I know I potentially only have a short time to do what I need to get done, and I just want the best chance I can of getting as strong as you guys are, and I'm being honest with you when I tell you that I'm just having such a hard time doing this on my own... Maybe you view that as a "pity party." For me, I physically, emotionally, and mentally am going through something so horrible that I've never experienced before, don't ever want to experience again, and would not wish on my worst enemy... Believe me, I don't want to be behind in my work, I don't want to let you all down - or myself or H. But to hear you just say to stop my woe is me attitude and just get on with it... I WANT to do that, AND I am weak right now, whether that's right or wrong or my fault or not, it's where I'm at... And it sometimes feels like you're saying that all this should be EASY for me to do what needs to be done, that I'm just being a "kid" and being weak. I wish to God I was as strong as you and could just say "okay, today we are going to move the office home, don't call H, don't see H, don't think about H, GAL my butt off, get lots of rest, take care of myself, eat well, not take meds, etc., etc." While I KNOW these things are all what I need to be doing and, as Lin pointed out, VITAL right now to me having the best chance at making this work, sometimes it seems like you're saying it's just as easy as "flipping a switch" inside of me or something...

I want all of you guys' tough love when I need it, and I hope you realize that I'm not strong like you guys are right now, that I need to work at it, that this "new" pain is still very fresh for me... Are those excuses? Maybe. But is it the way I feel? Yes. Is that wrong and immature and not worthy of your respect? Maybe. But I hope all of this doesn't mean that you won't help me anymore. Again, just being honest. I hope you will at least respect me for that. I don't keep much from you guys... ;\)

So, do I want all of your continued support? - without a doubt. Do I respect and admire each and every one of you for not only having made it through this hell but for "giving back" and supporting me, a complete stranger? - I am honored. Am I having a hard time implementing what you're telling me to do? - unfortunately, yes. Does that make me weak, not full of pride, and not able to be respected by any of you or H? - maybe. Does that mean that I don't WANT to change? - heck, no. Do I know that it's ultimately up to ME to make the decision necessary to do that? - I know. Having said all of this, I pray that you're not telling me that I have to lie about how I feel and tell you that I'm stronger than I feel and just throw out all of these meds that are helping me right now and just pretend like I'm not having these intense feelings... Maybe by saying all of these things it means you will not choose to help me anymore, but if having your support means I have to lie to you guys, I just don't want to do that... If I can't tell you when I'm having a meltdown and ask for your encouragement but rather have to "act as if" I'm okay, that doesn't help me right now. I know I need to "act as if" in many of the DBing ways, but I hope I don't have to "act as if" around you guys... What I CAN tell you is that your advice and encouragement and support and belief in me and my marriage means the world to me right now, whether it seems like it or not...

Okay, must stop rambling now... You are probably going to say that this post has been full of excuses again and that I just need to get on with things... But I pray that this is a place where I can be myself, whatever that means - from hour to hour, from day to day, from week to week - and that you'll keep supporting me. It may take me longer to get on the right wagon than it did you guys or that you think it should be taking me... I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for your guys to KNOW what I need to do and that I CAN save my M if I just DO what you are telling me... and I'm sorry for that. I hope and pray that you will be patient with me and not give up on me and realize that at the end of the day, I just want to learn how to be as strong as you all are - however long that takes me. I hope you'll all still be my side when that day comes...

I hope you will respect me for being honest and telling you how I feel.

Love you all...
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 07:03 AM

Tam

We will only take your honesty...no lies, no pretending.

Yes, we support you...but my approach to you is one of letting
you see how unproductive, meaningless, self-destructive and
unfounded your ways are...it is a painful situation, but when
will you realize that all of your emotional unrest is caused by
YOU and you alone? What impact does that have on repairing
your marriage? None, zero, nada, nothing...so why continue?
Do you think it even phases your H? No it doesn't...not one
bit...he has someone else who is stable...what are you offering
him? Meds, clingy wife, one who can't function at work...

You aren't weak, you lost yourself by giving him your personal
power...you live through him...you gave up your friends and you
expect him to fill the void in your being...that's not his job.
He's a partner, not your reason for existing...you abused that
partnership by not giving him his right to breathe, to do things
on his own without you there 24/7 constantly. Your neediness
made him look elsewhere for a partner. He can't talk to you
because you ask millions of questions, then more, you talk him
to death, so he clams up - you talk more, hoping he'll open up.

Tam, if I said go to the stove, turn a burner on high - then
place your hand on the red-hot top - you would scream, from the
pain, right? If I said do it again - would you? Heck no, how
idiotic would that be, right? Well, we have said that you need
to lovingly detach all of your emotions from your husband, he's
the red-hot burner...asking for hugs, spying, checking at sites
to see if he's there, wondering what he is doing, saying, going
to be at, etc., etc, etc.,...all equal your hand...get my point?

You are allowing yourself to be hurt, by doing the very things
that "PREVENT HIM" from ever wanting to come back to you...
it doesn't feel right for you. Your comfort zone lies in being
dependent on something or someone...out of that zone, you then
become disoriented, confused, scared - like a fish out of water.
You don't like being alone...you would then have to rely on your
own...it's easier to rely on someone else, for you...

You are not weak...were you weak before you ever met your H? No.
You earned a college education, made good grades...so why is it
so hard to let your H work through his A - alone - without you
coming unglued, irresponsible in your work, feeling like crap?
WTH does your coming apart "HELP" getting him back? NOTHING...
it pushes him away......now do you get it????????? You need to
be sharp, on target, focused, attractive...not lethargic, crying,
sniffling woman...that's why it must stop...NOW...it doesn't do
you, him or your business any good acting like a zombie, out of
control...now stop this...

The chances of him returning depends on you being fresh, alert,
positive, focusing on your business deadlines....showing him you
are in control of yourself...that's what will impress him...

You can do this...if you want him back...
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 11:09 AM

Thanks for not giving up on me, 1210. And thanks for the post. It helped me to think about a lot of things from a different perspective.

In fact, maybe that is why I ask so many questions all the time and then ask them in different ways again - because for some reason I need to hear it said a certain way or a certain amount of times or when I'm in a certain mental state, etc., in order to truly "get it" or accept it or understand it or whatever it may be. To that end, maybe this is why I am the same way with H. I just think that if I say the right thing or say it a certain way that he'll agree with me, do what I want him to do, etc. Hmmm... Just a thought. Lin, I know you said you were the same way I am about this. Thoughts?

BTW, where is my buddy, Virginia???? Have you guys seen her lately?

Quote:
You aren't weak, you lost yourself by giving him your personal
power


I didn't FEEL like I was this way BEFORE this happened... Sure, I depended on him for "man stuff," - no offense intended to the ladies who do these things themselves - but things like fixing the toilet, changing the oil in the cars, trimming the big trees in our yard, cleaing out the gutters on the house, repairing my car if it breaks down, etc. It's only natural, though maybe not healthy, when you're married for each person to take on certain roles and activities within the marriage. For us, the roles we took/take on compliment each other very well, both in our personal lives and in our business (well, except for the sex and personal communication issues). So, you may find this hard to believe, but I AM very independent. I enjoy being by myself. It gives me strength and helps me to focus. It makes me happy. It centers me. So... when we were "together," I often "cherished" the nights he would go out with the guys, go away for the weekend, go visit his parents, etc. I got some alone time!!! We saw each other frequently - mostly at the business and job sites, so it was a welcome and healthy "break" for us. So I DON'T feel like I was clingy and needy before - quite the opposite. Unfortunately, the very thing that used to bring me such pleasure is now tearing me apart, that being being by myself. It allows me too much time for my mind to wander, for my emotions to spiral - I'm not being "forced" to keep my wits about me.

It was only after this happened that I realized I don't think how much I "depend" on him, but rather how much I had made him a part of my world - there's the personal life, the business life, the social life, and the family life. Although we each contributed to all of those things, WE DID IT ALL TOGETHER for the most part. I didn't DEPEND on him for these things; we BOTH contributed something to all of these things, and I cherished my alone time as well. Now, without him, I just feel like EVERYTHING has changed so much since we were so involved with all of those aspects together. I don't know if that makes sense....

And I've NEVER really had a lot of friends. My "style" has been to find a few close friends and protect that friendship with my life. As I said, I enjoy(ed) my alone time and often would much prefer sitting down and reading a mindless magazine for an evening rather than going out to dinner with a friend or something. It wasn't that I didn't ENJOY going out or seeing my friends - I guess it just wasn't my "preference."

So, now I find myself in a position where being alone is the absolute WRONG thing to do right now, AND I don't have a lot of friends, AND the ones I do have know us both very well (except for the one I told you about that I saw the movie with the other night that is going through a separation). AND I have no family here besides H's, except my Mom and Dad, who live about 3 hours away.

Again, no excuses, but for those of you who were/are naturally more social and have a lot of friends and family around, I surmise that helped a great deal - or maybe I'm wrong; maybe it was harder because you were around them more and had to answer questions about H and your R?

So, I guess bottom line... if you feel like I've lost my power, how do I GET my power back? How do I BECOME strong like you guys? Will this just naturally come a little at a time with GALing and letting him go?

And, again, it feels like you're expecting me to be able to just flip some switch to just "stop" doing all of these things. I DO see that they are unproductive; I need your help and advice on HOW to make this better. Again, is it just by GALing and letting him go for now?

AND since I have to work so much right now to get caught up, what can I do during those alone times to not allow myself to spiral out of control? I work towards pushing the negative thoughts out of my mind when they enter - I use the stop sign method. But inevitably they come right back... Thus, me going from strong to a breakdown in seemingly seconds sometimes. I actually need to DO something to help completely take my mind OFF of the R, H, me, etc. And having to sit behind a computer by myself the whole day isn't exactly ideal for that...

However, when I have to go meet people at the job site and have appointments and whatnot, I do okay. Do I feel like my old self and like the world is my oyster? Absolutely not. But at least I can hold myself together and not have a meltdown in front of them. The pain is still gut-wrenching; it's just buried in the bottom of my stomach - temporarily unfortunately. But 95% of the work I have to get caught up on right now is stuff I need to do at the office - by myself.

Anyway, thoughts on this?

Also, I am so tired of waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to go back to sleep for a few hours... Have any of you had any luck with doing anything before bed that allows you to actually sleep through the night? I was sooooooo tired last night. I thought I was going to sleep for 24 hours (and I was so excited about that...) But, alas, here I am again awake in the middle of the night... Will ask doctor if any of the meds may be causing this. However, before I got the meds, this was happening already. I was getting a grasp on it before the first trip and was able to sleep fairly well most nights. But now.... ugh.

Okay, and finally for tonight... about Easter. H still hasn't brought it up (surprise, he's "avoiding thinking about something" again...) He told me he is going to work with his Dad on his racecar tomorrow during the day (hopefully it will help our cause for him to be around his family and not backfire and make him feel like that SHE would be a better fit to make him happy??). At any rate, I'll think good thoughts about him doing tht tomorrow. Then tomorrow night he said he was going to a friend's house to play poker. BTW, I didn't ASK him what he was doing tomorrow. It simply came up because I had scheduled an appointment for both of us for tomorrow afternoon and when checking to make sure that the date/time worked for him, that is when he told me these things. But he didn't talk about Sunday/Easter at all.

So, if he doesn't bring it up, I'm NOT going to go, okay? I pray that nothing happens to his grandmother before I see her again (it would be awkward for me to just go see her without H).

If he does bring it up, I'm not sure what I'll do yet. I have a feeling that the more likely thing will be that H's Mom will call me to ask me about it. However, she would have usually called me before now regarding plans for the weekend. So maybe she has already mentioned it to H and H has already told her that we're too busy to go or something and just didn't tell me that...

Anyway, if I don't go, that will mean I have that much more time to work this weekend, which is good right now. And if H goes without me without saying anything to me, HE can explain while I'm not there. He already told me regarding the trip to his parents' home that he didn't want to go by himself because it would be awkward to explain to them why I wasn't there - well, good! Let it be awkward for him! He ultimately made the choice to go to this extreme - he needs to start dealing with some of the fallout from it.

Oh, quick side note... Regarding the OW "letting" him go on these trips, I believe that H told her they were business trips and did not tell her that I was going on them with him. Otherwise, unless she has absolutely no manners or thoughts about anyone else's feelings, I don't think she would have been texting him when WE were on our trip together nor when he was at his parents' house with me. I could be wrong; H could have even initiated the contacts. I just can't believe that OW would be so inconsiderate as to communicate with him if she truly new the situations he was in. I purposely do not call him after a certain time at night or on the weekends - worried that I'm going to call when they're together or whatnot. Maybe it's not right for me to feel that way. Maybe I shouldn't care when I call him and, again, let him deal with the fallout from it.

Okay, bedtime (or at least I'll try...)

You're right: I CAN do this.... if I want him back, and I do with all of my heart and soul. Please keep pushing me to do the things I need to do to make this happen. I know I ultimately am the one who needs to implement these things, but please just keep kicking me in the butt and encouraging me. It really helps when you tell me that what I'm doing in the past/now is only making things worse rather than helping and that the best - if not the ONLY - chance that I have of getting him back is if I willingly and purposefully go on this journey and let him go on his.

Side bar (since I think we're close to the 6 month mark of this A with OW, and they obviously have not ended it yet, should I be more worried? - I hate possibly not falling into the "most A's end within 6 months" statement. It scares me...)

Okay - sleep NOW.

1210, thanks for sticking with me and shedding some not new light but some light from a different angle for me. That helped a lot.

I hope you're feeling better.
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 11:39 AM

Hello 2940,

As promised I found some links with the health professional information on xanax.

I wanted to mention to you that part of the reason why it is sometimes prescribed three times a day is to keep a uniform level of the drug in your system to help ward of anxiety attacks. So you may ask your docotr if this is an option for you. You mentioned something about bipolar disorder. Xanax is NOT recommended for bipolar disorder, however you have had many periods of stability in your life correct?

I am glad you looked it up on your own very good, make sure you ask plenty of questions. I want you to keep in mind that those symptoms affect bipolar people all the time and manifest themselves greater in periods of high stress. Bipolar disorder is a complicated mental condition so it will definantely need a psychiatrist's treatment for the rest of a person's life, but IMHO it would have already surfaced by now earlier in your life. Also sleep deprivation can have similar effects. Here is a good article to read about that. http://bipolar.about.com/cs/sleep/a/0002_mood_sleep.htm

Have you looked into alternate forms of anxiety or stress relief yet? That is very important you do that. Even in the information from professional health care providers on the use of Xanax it is advised they advise their patients of finding alternative methods. I noticed you mentioned going to the gym again. Very good, even try some new stuff, salsa dancing, belly dancing. Any physical movement will help you. Do you do any meditation? I know that many people find meditation tremendously helpful. Yoga would be a very good one for you too.

"Advise patient with anxiety to take as needed and to seek alternative methods for controlling or preventing anxiety (eg, stress reduction, counseling)."
http://www.drugs.com/ppa/alprazolam.html

Alprazolan is the offical/generic name for Xanax.

I understand your doctor said it was ok to take a second tablet if the first had not taken effect after an hour, however acoording to this fact sheet for professionals maximum absorption of xanax does not occir until 2 hours after you take the pill. http://www.drugs.com/pro/alprazolam.html A second pill within an halfhour to an hour it too fast.

2940 is it possible to make a journal of when you take your meds and when you have bad anxiety attacks? There may be correlation. For example you may take two dosages within an hour, how soon after that do you experience your next set back? It may be that the set back is comes when the medication level suddenly drops in your system. This information would give your doctor and pharmacist more insight into how the medication is affecting you. It will also let you see if there is a pattern emerging. Make sure to include what you ate or drank along with your meds.

Please 2940 talk to you pharmacist as well. They have a different understanding of EXACTLY how medications react chemically. I have a pharmacist who actually called my docotor once and questioned my prescription because it went against what she knew about a dosage.

Sending you hugs 2940.

* This is not medical advise, it is just to provide awareness so questions can be formulated and asked to a professional health care provider.
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/07/07 07:31 PM

Tam

You are WRONG...now IS the time to be alone, to regroup, to focus
on you...move your office back home. Alone time will allow you
to get your work done without being focused on him, when he
comes and goes...right now, let the friends go...you need to
catch up. Work your butt off...you will be so empowered by
getting things completed.

You get your power back by accomplishing things by yourself.
You don't need to be within the same building of your husband
to do this...that, is what prevents you from working.

There is nothing you can say or do to control him...but you can
control yourself...

My H's affair lasted 2 yrs. - mine, 1 1/2 yrs.

You need to let go - allow him the time to miss you...keep it
strictly business...let him wonder what you are doing. The
more you walk away from him, the more he'll be interested.
You won't lose him by detaching - you'll lose him by not detach-
ing...that's a fact.

You can do this..............stop fighting it.............
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/08/07 12:00 AM

Meow meow!! Scratch scratch!! Cat Fight with HS and 25!! And it's DRUG RELATED!!!

Hrrumph!! 2940-- here's the deal. A bunch of us have been where you are and somehow got the hell out. Not as far as some, but we got "unstuck". But honestly, for ME, it took LOTS of support and most of it came from women. (DB coach also helped a lot, btw) But since others here on this thread have been with you longer, it can start to feel as if we are wasting time/efforts b/c there doesn't seem to be much movement over time. Recall that each one of us have actually been where you are, with some different aspects--the pain of rejection and the fear of the future are the same-- and we're telling you whatever it was that worked for us, or one of our "sistahs", and you gotta try something new, b/c what you are doing is not enough, apparently. Frankly, I think you are about to hit the wall and it'll be pivotal for you. I mean that very very soon, I think, you are just gonna be sick and tired of feeling like crap and you will do whatever the heck it takes to stop the pain in a life changing way--not from numbing it, but from finishing with the crippling part of this. You know down deep, you are a good, lovable woman who deserves better than this. Re-read the posts here. Really. Think about that quote about your life being a novel. Who is writing YOUR life's book? How is this chapter going? is the next chapter going to be written by you and how is IT going to go? Be the author of your life and stop letting a mixed up man write it for you. Besides, with someone else writing it, YOU KNOW it won't go the way YOU want it to. Since this is the only life you know you'll have, make it Your way.

As for getting back to sleep (of course, I SAY "YES" TO DRUGS--Geez, j/k!) seriously, if you aren't sleeping well it does suck, not to mention make you look tired. The wellbutrin is a stimulant to many, so whenin the day do you take it?

What about getting an ipod or some CDs for relaxation? I have some just for those middle of the night horrors, and they do help to calm my brain down when the negative thoughts crash past my walls and get into my head. Find and listen to something that comforts you, or maybe bores you(?) Or both.

In the "dark nights of the soul", it does help to talk to the big guy upstairs. Make a plan ahead of time, for those tough nights. They will become fewer and fewer, and last less and less time. Have faith. As for a specific action recommendation: well, for God's sake, ELIMINATE/REDUCE your contact with your H asap...and RE-read the posts on detachment. GAL and detachment go hand in hand, although I don't think the order matters much. And "faking it 'til you make it" does work. Changing the behavior can lead to a change in emotion, so you don't have to "feel" better first. Make sense?
good luck,
j-
Posted By: Flicka

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/08/07 12:31 AM

You know, 2940, whether you are able to get tough sooner rather than later, please know that the writing here on your thread is some of the best and most useful that I have seen on these boards. I have been reading since "Snodderly was a pup". That means it has been a long time in case you do not visit the MLC world.

I am hoping that somehow all of this good spirit and great advice will get archived for those hurt people that will continue to log on long after your problem has stopped causing you grief. I think this thread distills the misery and also the wisdom that is gained by enduring.

I want to thank those that have posted to you, and reassure them that they are helping many.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/08/07 02:25 AM

Quote:
Lin, it bothered me when you said a few posts ago that I was dependent on H and now dependent on this board... Am I posting too much?


Actually I believe I stated you were codependent...it has nothing to do with posting too much but more with your ability to start making decisions on your own without questioning yourself...you ask us...we tell you...you ask us again (maybe rewording it) and we answer again...this creates a circle that isn't healthy...you need to log your posts so you can go back and reassure yourself if need be...

You did/do this to H as well...although you have appeared to be getting better with this...the sad part for us is we KNOW what you need to do and you fight us on it (sometimes)and then you want us to reassure you that you didn't screw it up...we can't really do that...all we can do is tell you what we have learned and what we have seen work over and over...and we all KNOW that this goes against what we feel we should do...

i.e....how many times have you asked us if your marriage still has hope???...and how many times have we said that there is ALWAYS hope until your spouse D's and remarries???

i.e....you keep fixating on the 6 month mark of H's A...even though we have all told you that it is not in stone...that it doesn't really matter in the long run...just because it might go 1 year or more doesn't mean all is lost and doom has taken over...we keep telling you that you need to place your focus on you and not on H, OW, and A....that is how YOU CAN FIX THIS...but you still reason things to do it your way...including the idea of Easter with his family which I still think it is going to be a BIG EMOTIONAL ELEPHANT FOR YOU...but you use the reason that you don't want to hurt anyone...ever think that this might not hurt anyone???...I have missed major family functions...family understands...they get over it...they don't live and die for you to visit!...not being mean...just honest...

Yes I do appreciate that you are honest...if you weren't it would be a huge waste of all of our time here...but by the same token if you stay stuck no matter what we say...then what is accomplished???

You acknowledge this...but you still continue to do things that are self destructive...case in point...you realized that moving the office was a good idea...we all agreed it was a great idea...you started looking into it and getting ready...then BAM!!!...you slammed that door shut and had all kinds of reasons that it wouldn't be good...sorry, but I still think working away from H is exactly what you need to do...it will give you time to focus and regroup...I think you need to work your but off and then enjoy some time with the girls...have them over...you need to get settled with being alone and being okay with that because you have a JOB to do!

Had a long day....H acted like a butt and everyone wanted to know what his problems was....I just shrugged my shoulders and said "your guess is as good as mine"...we went to a nice Italian Buffett after and he wouldn't even sit with his family...everyone asked him about it and he said he wanted to sit where he sat down...they looked at me...I just said "whatever he wants"...so I am still working on things....I am not feeling out of the woods yet!!!....but I won't bother you with my issues...I can stand this for a while longer...it was much worse (that is what I keep telling myself)

Take care Tam...listen and learn!
Posted By: Lost_for_now

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/08/07 04:02 AM

2940,

Hi there. I have been sort of following along with your thread and I wanted to say that I am feeling so many of the same things you are. My W moved out in october '06 and I still feel like I am a wreck! So if you feel like you're going too slow just remember that I'm right there with you!

I too have great difficulty keeping her out of my mind. If I wake up in the early morning then I may as well just get up because thoughts of her creep right in and will not leave.

Anyway, just didn't want you to feel like you were all alone in your feelings or progression through this terrible ordeal.
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/08/07 02:25 PM

Hey gorgeous

It's been a big week, yeah? You sound a lot more grounded today than earlier in the week?

I've been away from the boards, because I've been questioning my right to hand out gratuitous advice left, right and centre when I didn't 'get my husband back'. Your thread has some very experienced DBers posting, many of whom have successfully reconciled with their partners - and here am I waxing lyrical about the benefits of 'finding yourself' when I infact 'found myself' divorced.

Nevertheless, I've just spent the weekend with my x-husband and his sons, my step-sons who I was the primary carer for for 10 years and after some good conversations with him and the boys and some reflection about what we are all doing here after all I've decided to go easy on myself and count myself a DB success after all.

This board and the people who post here saved my life in 2005. The skills I learned here with the help of experienced posters and people experienced in life helped me find the resources that I will draw on for the rest of my life - and not all of them got their husbands back either.

The amazing thing about this community is that it's a great leveller. A collection of woman (and men) from all over the world, all ages, with all sorts of expertise, who generously give of their time and experiences to help us learn.

Now the problem with that is we all come with our own baggage, our own perceptions, biases, bigotry, view of the world. Every poster on here has been through their own personal version of hell. Hence, the zeal with which we hold tight to our own philosophy of what will work and what won't. There are some general principles that will always work - those things that are about

* setting goals
* detaching
* getting a life
* positive mental attitude
* communication - by which I mean loving validation etc

Then there is some other stuff that's more arbitary - like building our own self esteem, losing our victim status, taking back our own power, learning from our mistakes, understanding co-dependency, loving ourselves. Over on the MLC board there is a gorgeous woman who's screen name is Rollercoaster Rider - she's almost made a PhD out of research on midlife crisis. I've disagreed with her from time-to-time on the veracity of some of her research - but regardless she's got a whole library full of other more nebulous psychological issues associated with the relationship crisis we are all going through. (Her husband recently came home for good after a couple of years of going back and forth, so she's onto something!!) All of us have our own set of these personal - what works for us - set of language around the work we need to do on ourselves. Sometimes that's confusing, mostly I think because of language and what means one thing to you might mean something entirely different to me.

My point however is we have the chance on this board to take the information and advice that means something to us and use it.

I admire the way your posts are heartbreakingly honest. Don't lose that.

I talked to my x-husband about you today, I told him your story as you've written it here and he said "Geez - they do sound like us don't they?" He had tears in his eyes. I said yeah, I hope they work it out and he said "I wish I could shake that stupid bloke (referring to your husband), he doesn't know how much he'll lose."

Do I think there is hope for your marriage? Yeah, I do. In fact I will go so far as to say that I'll bet you 5 self help books of your choice that within 12 to 18 months, provided you've done the work you need to do on yourself, healed some of your own stuff and followed the DB principles, he'll tell you he's made the biggest mistake of his life. What I wouldn't bet on is that you'll take him back at that stage.

Righto. Individual counsellor and work to do on oneself. I hear what you are saying about her not being very 'solution focussed' but maybe that's ok for an individual counsellor. Like you've got a DB counsellor for your marriage, but maybe a more traditional style of analysis might be the way to go for your personal issues.

The reason she wants to talk about your childhood and stuff is to help you to figure out why you act a particular way about things that happen. There is a view that all of us have issues because of things that have happened to us since we were born (some new-age psychologists reckon we could even have issues from things that happened to us in past lives!!! mmmmm???).

So what she's getting at is trying to figure out why you have reacted so intensely to this threat to your marriage. The idea is that mental life functions on both conscious and unconscious levels and that childhood events have a powerful psychological influence throughout life. Our unconscious mind is ridiculously powerful and it could be that yours has some damage around abandonment or fear of being alone or whatever that has triggered a disproportionate mental response to your husband signalling the end of your marriage.

You have to admit, it is unusual that, while you were upset, you could cope when he was just sleeping with someone else because you thought there was hope he might come back to you - but when he signalled that he might not come back to you, you really hit the wall. So through a process of analysis, she wants Tam's adult brain to rationally process that (ie husband sleeps with someone, but says he's going to come back to marriage - I'm OK. Husband is sleeping with someone else and is not coming back to the marriage - I'm freaking out) and then decide if that's a response that she thinks she can live with. Rationally, what's the bigger betrayal? Sleeping with someone else or leaving you? But which one did you most react to?

What will happen through that process of looking at some of your reactions and behaviours with a rational adult brain is that you might start to see some patterns that as a grown up you can do without and you can ask your consious mind to work on your unconsious mind to 're-programme' some of the less helpful messages you've been set up to receive.

That sort of work is uncomfortable to do, but it's really worth it because it helps you to understand why you are the way you are - gives you resources to change some of the things you want to change and provides resiliance so that next time you are blindsided, you'll have the knowledge and skills you need to bounce rather than be flattened.

On the issue of sleeping, I'm still not great at it. Hard, sweating, heartrate up to 170 for 30 - 45 mintues every day is very very good. Failing that (and this week I am certainly failing that) I've had the best results by setting up a routine for bedtime. If I take the dog for a quick walk, have a shower, make a cup of tea, read a chapter of my novel and then put the ear phones on with a relaxation cd, I generally sleep like a baby.

Routine is good. Relaxation DVDs are good. Warm milk is good. Hot showers are good. Prayer is good. (I'm such a preacher though - I almost turned into an alcoholic in my first year of so of this because I was so scared to go to bed and lie awake that I'd drink a bottle of wine every night to make me pass out. I DO NOT advocate that method, but I tell you so you can feel superior if I sound like I'm being a know-it-all!!!)

Good decision re Easter. I know it'll be hard for you, but it's the right decision.

Tam, I know you are doing the best you can, as fast as you can. I don't know where the on/off switch is that makes you switch from a mediocre DBer to a great one. I think it just takes time.

You are very lucky to have such good advice from experienced women here on your thread. The advice is tough and the views are not sugar coated - and that's for your own good.

Take care and keep posting.

Thinking of you. V

PS. My e-mail address is perkins_virginia@hotmail.com if you ever want to just e-mail me. Cheers
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/09/07 12:35 AM

Hi 2940,

Happy Easter to all!!!

I wanted to tell you after all the advice and confidence building I gave you. I stumbled with it to. My H came for the night for Easter today. WE had a pleasant conversations mostly business but I listened and we had a bottle of wine. He slept in the same bed a few hugs no Ml. He was real complimentary about the way I looked and everything. We went to church I fixed dinner and then he left an went to her house. Enough of my sitch I just posted a differnet thread for advice. I just had a hard time with it.

I just wanted to tell you so you know even as hard as I was trying I stumbled and felt bad again. I am here for you because right now there is nothing that can ripe your heart right out of your chest like the things they do and say. I guess its wanting to hear or experience that little thing that will show hope and then they ruin it by some action. I even told you not to expect to much and guess what I did. I expected a little after I let my guard down.

I don't know which is worse the real nice approach or the standoffish approach that they do to us. It is very hard to understand but then again should we even try to understand..

It helps me to write to you because it makes me think and come down and think about it and get control.

You get such great advice from everyone. I have learned so much. Sometimes I think we take 3 steps and take one back.

I hope your Easter went OK....I hope you made it through OK!

Really think about the move. I still think make your office somewhere in your house that you will enjoy being there. Change the atomsphere so it makes it easier to concentrate. I like you have to really work on focusing on the business stuff. I had to get better because I had animals that needed water hauled to them evey few days. I had books that I had let go that need to be at the accountants (my H brother who is a partner is the accountant)he did know why all of a sudden I had not gotten things done.

Financially you have to get focused because by not doing what is important we are costing our selves a great deal. Not only Financially but emoitionally too. Its a spiral in a deep black hole and we have to become strong to stop the ourselves from falling further. I want you to grab the hands that are reaching out to you and pull yourself up.
I am with you. (Sorry I vented about H) You will become stronger. Just remember I will and Can over come this and will survive and be better. Now by me telling you this I feel better.
Hopefully you will too.
Hang in there.
Thanks for listening. It still amazes me how much everyone situation sounds alike.


IMLIN,

I hope H didn't ruin your sons Baptism? Did he act ok during that? Even after all you have been thru there is always hurdles. You are such a strong person to have made it thru what you have and still are the backbone of your family.

Hang in there my friend becasue we are here for you to.

Have a good night 2940. I hope all have the same feeling that is it nice to be able to visit with you guys...
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/09/07 04:58 AM

Hi, everyone --

Happy Easter to you all!

I am exhausted (once again) and am headed off to bed but know I haven't written for a while and that you all have written such wonderful advice and encouragement to me and just wanted to let you all know that I've read it all and appreciated it all so much and will respond in more detail over the next few days as I have time.

Penny, I had a similar day to yours... More to follow later - need to get some rest if I can.

Hang in there, everyone, and thank you all so much for being there for me....
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/09/07 11:21 PM

Why am I getting the feeling that you had a rotten easter because you saw your H and possibly his family and now you are worried about posting because you could well get a blast from the peanut gallery????

Post away my friend - it's all for the getting of wisdom you know.

We can't hurt you, but bottling it up inside you like some grubby secret or shameful outing might well hurt you very much.

Thinking of you.
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/09/07 11:26 PM

2940,

We are here for you. Like Virginia said let it out. You can't keep it in especially when you are alone. It makes it way worse.
We are here to help and support you.
Just think it was another Holiday and I think, I made it and it was pleasant maybe not completely the way I wanted it but it was a start. We can't expect to much. Expectations are the the cause of those melt downs we get alittle and want a lot. Patience is the key.
We are here my friend.
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 12:22 AM

Tam

I'm thinking the same thing as Virginia and Penny...
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 03:05 AM

same here. talk away, you'll hit the wall of change that much faster.
j-
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 05:24 AM

Can I just tell you how completely amazing you guys are???? Once again, you humble me with your wonderful friendship and support and encouragement of me, a complete stranger... I have no words to describe the comfort and peace I feel knowing you are all there for me - during the good times and the bad (hopefully the good times are still on their way??? LOL )

Seriously, I think I have gotten about 12 hours of COMBINED sleep in the last three nights... I am absolutely exhausted but can't sleep!!!! It takes me forever to fall asleep, and then I wake up a few hours later and can't get back to sleep for hours, if at all... I saw my IC today and told her about it, and she thinks it's probably the meds. I see my doctor on Wednesday and will ask about it. This is getting ridiculous... I feel like a walking zombie...

So, it's late once again, and I FEEL exhausted... We'll see if I can get any better sleep tonight. I PROMISE I'll get you up to speed ASAP! Quick recap: I DID go to Easter with H and his family. Had a nice time. H stayed around our house for about 6 hours after Easter and changed the oil in my car, washed my car, measured it for new windshield wipers... (WTH???) I OF COURSE told him that I could do ALL of those things myself... \:\) And he said he WANTED to do it... Okey dokey...

So instead of leaving him at our house and going to the office to work like I should have, I of course decided I needed to "cherish" whatever time he was willing to spend in my vicinity, so I stayed home with him and worked in the yard, which was nice. I love working in the yard and have been so busy that I haven't had much time to do it the last few years. So we chit-chatted outside about mostly business stuff. He did a few other "manly" things around the house and then said he was going to leave to go to the job site. We had a few things to look over together at the job site, so I told him I would be there in a little while.

So, when he was leaving, I gave him a hug (HOT burner... bad!). and thanked him for doing the items around the house. He turned to leave, and I was bad again... I said something like, "Honey, are we going to be okay?" And he turned to me and said without even hesitating "yes." I was shocked and numb at the same time. Of course I asked him "are you sure?" because I forgot my "accept what he says" lesson... And he said "yes" and gave me another hug, this one really tight, and we hugged for a few moments. Then he left. I didn't ask any more questions and just let it go. I know I shouldn't have said anything at all, but I did better than I usually do and did not give him the 30 minute "grilling" at least...

So of course as soon as he left I started thinking to myself, "okay, so what does "we're going to be okay REALLY mean?" And then I drove myself crazy worrying about it. You see, I remembered that when we first talked about all of this in November I asked him something similar about wanting to work through things, and he said something like that we'd figure out a plan. Well, I took that to mean that we were going to work on our M, but when I asked him about it later when we had one of our "discussions," he said he had just meant that we were going to figure out what to do, not necessarily that we were going to work on our M....

So, I thought back to that again and panicked...

So we went to the job site and went over what we needed to go over. Then we both were up at the office working. My parents called to wish us a Happy Easter. I talked to them and then let H. It broke my heart to hear him talk to them, because he just acts like everything is just hunky dory... He called my mom "mama" like he always does and about broke my heart in two...

So, I had to ask him my follow-up question so I didn't drive myself mad worrying about it... So I promised myself I would at least keep it very short and to the point. So I just asked him if what he said earlier meant that he wanted to work on our marriage and stay together or whether he meant that things would work out the way they are supposed to. He said that he wants to work on our M. I asked him if it was going to be soon or if he knew and he said he doesn't know... I thanked him and went up behind him (he was sitting in his chair) and hugged him from behind and told him thank you. He told me thank you and grabbed my arm and said "I'm sorry." I said I was sorry, too. I kept hugging him for a minute or so. He rubbed my hair and rubbed my arm. Then I just went upstairs and got back to work. Then he left about an hour later, no goodbye - off to OW house, just like Penny...

So, that is the quick version of where we're at now. Today we were both at the office for most of the day, and I didn't do very well at giving him space. I didn't ask him any personal questions today, but I talked to him way too much about business stuff.

So, will tell you more later about all of the emotions that I'm feeling... I'm relieved, angry, sad, anxious, TIRED, scared, confused, etc. I'm working hard at keeping this in perspective and remembering what Virginia said - why is it okay if he says we're going to ultimately work on things for him to continue to sleep with OW but if he says we're NOT going to work on things it's no longer okay and I meltdown? Also, he only told me about a month ago now that he did NOT want to work on our M or be married anymore, and he could tell me tomorrow that same thing. And he could come home tomorrow, and he could never come home, and he could come home in a year, etc., etc. So, I'm just trying to take from it a little bit of hope to ease my heartache a little bit to hopefully help me to function a bit better and at the same time realize that I can't feel like anything has changed and need to keep working on what you're telling me to do - detach and GAL - and act like nothing is different. Otherwise, if I just go back to being nicey nicey to him, he has no reason to change anything. I'm also angry that he says he does want to work on the M again but he's not DOING it... As DB says, don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do... So I can't believe what he's telling me, and his actions are that he's still staying with her...

So, the saga continues... Had an interesting meeting with IC today. She asked me to think this week about whether I really WANT to be marrtied to H or whether it's just that I just don't want to fail at marriage and am so driven to not "lose" this fight. I told her that right now those don't really connect for me. I DON'T want to lose my M because of my commitment to H, and at the same time there is not the closeness that I long for that makes me feel like he is my "one and only." I think that's only normal for what we've been through recently and also for the distance that we created between us before this even happened... At any rate, it bothered me a bit both that I felt like she was kind of pushing me to say I don't really want to be with him (she said "he IS a cheater - think about that"). And it also bothered me that both when he came home before our first trip and also when he told me that on Easter, I didn't cry. Now, I've been an absolute wreck, as you know, but why is it that I only cry when I'm not getting what I want??? Am I numb, or am I crying in part because I'm not getting what I want versus crying because of my intense emotions for H? I cried horribly the very first time he came home for one night about a month before our trip, but when he came home for our trip and yesterday, no tears... So I've been thinking about that, my past of hating to fail, my love for H, yet the distance we have between us right now... What does this all mean? I don't know...

Okay... I've gone on WAY too long. Sorry. I really want to post to each of you regarding all of the wonderful advice that you've given me but wanted to at least get you up to date for now. Thank you again for everything. I am truly moved by your compassion and thoughtfulness...

Virginia, I'm SO glad you posted again! I missed you. PLEASE know how much your advice has meant to me and helped me. And, remember, as Lin pointed out to me yet again, until H divorces AND remarries, there is ALWAYS hope!!! "It's never too late for a miracle..." So, maybe it's not too late for you and your ex-H?????

Okay. Really gotta go now.... I'm ready for the punches, so bring 'em on! HOWEVER, maybe you'll soften them a little but seeing as how I at least didn't fire away a MILLION questions at him??? Patience with me, my dear friends... I'm learning, just a bit slowly...
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 05:57 AM

P.S. - Just wanted you to know that I have not popped a Xanax since Easter morning! \:\)
Posted By: ELLteacher

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 06:23 AM

What to you think about H wanting to get a divorce and then stay in the house and rent a room so our adopted daughter won't have to change her way of life? Is it time for him to go? How do I answer I want a divorce? ELL Teacher
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 12:32 PM

ELLteacher...you will get better responses if you create your own post...and please give the details of things because you really haven't told us much in the way of what is going on and why you feel the way you do...

Now on to Tam....okay, some improvement on the questions but I am warning you now...don't take the good result as an okay to continue this...you really really pushed by asking him that in the first place...and then you really really really really pushed it by asking to him to explain it at the job sight...

Good thinking on why you didn't cry...could the tears be a temper tantrum cause your not getting your way???...as a little girl did this work with mom and dad???

You have some good results...some positives....BIG ones...now what are you going to do???...push and question

*****why is it okay if he says we're going to ultimately work on things for him to continue to sleep with OW but if he says we're NOT going to work on things it's no longer okay and I meltdown? Also, he only told me about a month ago now that he did NOT want to work on our M or be married anymore, and he could tell me tomorrow that same thing. And he could come home tomorrow, and he could never come home, and he could come home in a year, etc., etc.*****

or are you going to accept that you crossed a bridge (a shakey one at best) and you are so fortunate that it didn't colapse that you will now find a way around that bridge to get back where you need to be...

Remember this....you and H are not ready to get back together...you and H are not ready to work on the M...you both have issues although he is keeping his quiet from you...but honey you have some major ones that if he did come home right now you would drive him right out the back door and burn every bridge around you...there would be no salvaging...

Also, take a lesson from me....I skipped a few pre-requisits that I had for H coming home....now my D20 says that she feels I let come home too soon and that he is now taking all of that for granted...I am suffering in my own making of things now....again....HE wasn't ready to come home...and now we have to go back and fix this mess....my Elders have already told me that it may not work out like I want....this scares me...to know that I have had him back for a year and maybe.....yes, maybe he could leave us again...and not come back this time...

I don't want you to face this HELL again, Tam...please listen through my own grief right now...put the focus back on you...forget what he said (he could change his tone, like you said)....and just work on getting yourself where you need to be...then...and only then....will you be ready for the next step...skipping steps and getting what you want fast doesn't work...like rising bread...if you put in the oven before the yeast has a chance to work...you end up with a brick!!!...well hit me over the head!!!!
Posted By: osu43130

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 01:04 PM

Tam,
You are in great hands here....Listen to 1210 and 25yrs.

They will give you great advice as well as many others that are posting to you.

I will leave you in their hands and check back and see if I can add anything....

Just thinking of you sista..
Ben
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/10/07 11:59 PM

Hi Missy

Good update and pretty good Easter, yes?

Have you had a good night's sleep yet? Life always looks a good deal more managable when you see it through the lense of a good 8 to 12 hours of sleep.

So what happened at Easter? Did he come and ask you to go to family easter? Nice work. Although, he is so in denial isn't he? Poor lamb - he just doesn't know what he's doing and rather than really looking at what's going on around him, he's just got his head in the sand, doing whatever he can so as not to make waves.

I wonder if you are 'enabling' his denial? This is just something that I'm throwing out there, I don't know if you are or not, but I wonder about how he's able to just go to his family's place and you'll play along with him that nothing's wrong and he gets off scott free, then assauges his guilt by doing jobs around the house - but then goes off to OWs or where ever anyway? Do you know what I mean?

Good work on not interrogating him. I know that the 'perfect' DBer is supposed to be made of stone, and not ask any questions, but I think you did pretty well for the 'human' version.

I suspect he was so amiable to agreeing that you guys would be OK because you have been doing so well at DBing. He's not scared of you, he has felt that you've been making yourself less available to him and it's working. Remember when he said he didn't want to work on your marriage, was after you had been really into him and clingy and stuff - but he's said that he'll work on it, after you've been applying the DB principles. More proof that he's not made of stone, and perhaps not overtly, but intuitively he's noticing what's going on.

Quote:
At any rate, it bothered me a bit both that I felt like she was kind of pushing me to say I don't really want to be with him (she said "he IS a cheater - think about that").


She's not earning her fee unless she's making you uncomfortable and bothered. Her job is to ask you the hard questions. You don't have to like them, but you do have to explore them.

Keep at it Miss 2940831. You are doing well.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 01:17 AM

Nice comments Virginia...

I would like to add to something though...something for Tam to make as a goal...

Again, she said that when H left he went to OW's...assuming is not good...also, even if he did we might be assuming again to feel they are having sex every night...every other night...or maybe at all???...really no one knows...but more importantly right now Tam...for your own sake...you need to stop thinking about him and "her" together...this will create stress for you and cause you either to meltdown or do something that you WILL regret so much...

I do agree that you sound much better...and hey, 12 hours sleep in the last 3 days is actually better then I was getting...eventually the sleep will come...I know it did for me...and I think I am still catching up on it....

Take care and post details soon...I promise no scathing criticism...just gentle prodding if needed...
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 01:25 AM

Tam

Alrighty...much better, my friend, but stop all of the analyzing
of him...you aren't inside his head. YOU don't know what he is
thinking.

Take it all with a grain of salt...

NOW...NO MORE R/M QUESTIONS
NO MORE HUGS
NO MORE AFFIRMATIONS

LEAVE ALL OUTSIDE OF BUSINESS TALK - OUT OF CONVERSATIONS

In the future - just take his answers as they are given...do
not ask for clarification, rephrase, as you do...you still
persist in talking too much...MEN CAN'T STAND CHATTY WOMEN...
learn this please...don't be a little jumpy puppy waiting for
your next little head pat, okay?

You had some good positives...now don't set it back by being
pushy or too anxious...wait it out.

Kudos on no Xanax....lay off that stuff... \:\)
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 02:35 AM

Again, thank you guys for your never-ending support. It means so much to me. I can't say that enough.

I got more sleep last night but have hit an exhaustion wall today. I am so incredibly tired that I can't even see straight. So I've come home early in hopes I can get to bed early tonight and hopefully get to sleep and get a decent night's sleep. We'll see.....

So still more details to follow, but regarding Easter, I did NOT call H regarding going to Easter. I worked hard to stick with my plan of not contacting him about it if HE did not bring it up. So he called Saturday afternoon (again, imagine that, him putting something off until the last minute...). He asked if I wanted to go to Easter or not. I asked him what HE wanted me to do, and he said he would like for me to go. I asked if it would be awkward for him, and he said it would be more awkward for him to explain why I was not there... So I agreed to go.

Then, after I got off the phone, I was sick the rest of the day knowing that I should have just told him I wasn't going to go. Why should I make it EASIER and less awkward for HIM? As I've said, he made this bed - he needs to deal with the fallout from it, not me. So the whole rest of the night I struggled with it, wanting to call him to tell him I'd changed my mind and then not being able to/wanting to muster up the strength to do it... On top of that, Saturday was the day that I was so exhausted that I was just on an emotional roller coaster, which wasn't helping matters any....

So I obviously never called him, AND on top of that, I had the NERVE to tell him that if he wanted to come and stay the night at our house to leave in the morning he could... (he said he was going down south to a poker game with the guys on Saturday night, and the Easter get-together was all the way down south (Ow's house is way further north than our house), so that is what brought it up. He said he might just stay at his friend's house down south and go to Easter from there and see me there. Anyway, that's when I said that. WTH was I thinking???? I wanted to take the words back as soon as I said them... I am just so desperate to be with him right now that my judgment gets clouded in the heat of the moment often times. However, at least I am finally RECOGNIZING the errors in my ways. Hopefully that is the first step in making positive changes.

So he did not come home that night and came home about an hour before we were supposed to leave on Easter morning. He didn't use his clicker to open the garage door and manually opened it. (WTH?) I don't know if he didn't want to alert me that he was home or what... Anyway, he just came in the door and sat on the couch downstairs - did not come up to let me know he was home. I went down to say hello and then got ready to go.

So that's it up until we left to go to the Easter get-together, and then you know the rest from there. So at least I did not call him to ask him about Easter, but I still should have told him that I wasn't going and should NEVER, EVER have said he could come home that night... Ugh... Baby steps...

Quote:
You had some good positives...now don't set it back by being
pushy or too anxious...wait it out.


Yeah, a little too late for that unfortunately.... Ugh... So today I was bad once again... I was doing okay this morning, and then H came to the office for a while, and my desperation set in again. So I went down and asked him for a hug and then asked him if he is coming home soon (which I've already ASKED him...) He said he is working on it (excuses). I told him I miss him and he said "I know." And I told him I wanted to be a good wife. Anyway, I hugged him for a while, and he said I was trapping him in his office (he was getting ready to leave). So we moved to the hallway where the door is to leave, and he gave me one more hug.

So, big backslide today, and I know that, and I'm furious at myself... I didn't talk to him again until just a while ago. He called to ask me to get him the number and/or to call the dentist to schedule an appointment for him, as he broke his tooth at dinner tonight.

Virginia, I AM enabling him to continue this behavior and not face the music. While I'm sure this isn't a cakewalk for him, I'm not forcing him out of his comfort zone and making him deal with not having me around. That is not good. I'm also being too nice and clingy again over the last couple of days. Again, both not attractive to him I'm sure and also not pushing him away to make him curious and want me more. Again, I RECOGNIZE this and just need to work on not acting in the heat of the moment and doing/saying things I'm going to regret.

It's becoming increasingly evident to me that I need to move my office back home until this is resolved. When I'm home, I don't feel the need to snoop around his office and feel a sense of "peace" - kind of like when I was in Vegas. I don't worry so much about him and what he is doing/going/etc.

I need to figure out how to backpedal a little bit and make him think that I'm just not going to be the supportive wife standing my his side and waiting while he continues to sleep with another woman. Probably moving my office would be a really good and big step towards that, but now that what's been said has been said and he knows that I want him back still, I'm not sure what dialog I should use when/if he asks me about why I've moved my office. Realistically, as you know, I am so far behind right now that I'm not sure when I'll have the time to pack everything and get it organized to move, so it's not like it will be in the near future, but I hope to do it as soon as I can. It will be really inconvenient as far as being a lot farther away from places I need to go during the day, but it's worth it at this point...

I'm angry at myself and angry at him at the same time. I just know that, like everything else with this, he's going to put off doing anything about this with her until he's forced into it with some sort of deadline. At this point, there is no pending trip or whatnot to give him a deadline, and I'm not going to give him a deadline/ultimatum at this point, so I'm not sure what the best solution is. As Virginia said, he just doesn't want to rock the boat right now. So he'll probably stay with OW until he's "forced" to face doing something different. How I bring that about without putting out an ultimatum I'm not sure... AND I want him to come home only when he's ready and not force him to, as Lin pointed out...

AND I know I still have so much work to do on ME.... I'm starting to slowly at least grasp the concept of the things I do wrong and the changes I need to make but know I have so far to go. I don't know if it's possible to keep working on this if he comes home soon or not... It's just hard to say right now... And, even though he said he's working on it, he said that for 2 months or so before he came home for our first trip, so by him working on it, that probably means he thinks about it for 30 seconds a day or whatnot...

Anyway, gotta run for now and see if I can get some rest tonight and try to get a lot of work done tomorrow on a fresh mind. Let me know your thoughts as you have time, and I still want to respond to your other posts at some point... Bear with me... And know that I'm at least reconizing more rapidly the negative things I'm doing. I need to put more distance between us again and make him wonder/worry. Maybe another trip is in order without him, but I need to get a lot of work done before I would feel good about going away again... We'll see. Hopefully I'll have a fresh mind tomorrow and be able to think more clearly about all of this.
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 02:55 AM

Tam


...Good Lord, girlfriend - are the Heavens opening up????????


P R O G R E S S .................................

You know what to do.................DETACH . DETACH . DETACH....
MOVE THE OFFICE HOME.....GET ANGRY WITH HIM........YOU ARE SO
WILLING TO PLEASE, FOR ANY LITTLE CRUMB...YOU CAN'T FORCE HIM
TO DO ANYTHING...HE HAS TO SEE YOU LOSE INTEREST IN HIM BEFORE
HE WILL TURN TOWARDS YOU...you are too eager waiting for him...
he knows this...turn away from him - he will follow...trust me.

Get some sleep...you're thinking more clearly, now...no Xanax!!!
luv ya...
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 04:42 AM

Yeah...today was a big no no...please get ahold of yourself and quit asking him if he is working on coming home and hugging him...you WILL send him running and then you WILL crumble like a cookie in the desert!!!...there won't be enough Xanax to get you through that!!!

Your right...you should have declined Easter invite...he should have to explain things...You know that...so I don't know how to help you anymore with that...

***** he's going to put off doing anything about this with her until he's forced into it with some sort of deadline.*****

WRONG!!!!...He is not going to do anything till he is SURE OF YOU!!!!....you can't force him to make a decision to RETURN...but you sure as heck can reinforce his decisions to STAY where he is with OW!!!

And again...you make me so nervous talking about wanting him to come home...I was so sure the time was right for me...I now see that in Feb...when H quit his job...things changed with him again...I feel used, abused (emotionally), deprived, not cherished, not cared for....believe me....it is better to be alone!...I can see H didn't have time to really finish fixing his own messes before I opened the door and welcomed him home...

PLEASE DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I HAVE....I terrifies me that I have come this far and now wonder if I am going to loose it all....Tam...I don't think you could survive this all again...so please...I am literally begging you to DETACH, TAKE CARE OF YOU, FOCUS ON GETTING YOURSELF WELL GROUNDED, AND MAKE SURE HE IS WELL GROUNDED BEFORE HE COMES HOME!!!!...It is better to put him off then to throw open the door, your arms, your heart, your bed....I am eating my own words now....and believe me it makes me sick...and I am putting my children through it with me again!!!!

Tam...honestly...If you start down that path....I will have to detach from your posts...you see my sensitivity allows me to feel what others do...and right now....I couldn't carry that pain....so PLEASE...prepare yourself to be strong!!!!

Lin
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 05:41 AM

Tam,

Please read the thread between me and "Always" (or is it "Always14" ??) about taking a H back BEFORE they are ready to come back. If nothing has changed and it is fear/discomfort/guilt that drives them home (or forces them back) then YOU WILL HAVE WON THE BATTLE BUT LOST THE WAR!! Think about that.

Stop hoping for the crumbs 1210 is referring to, and thinking that's enough for a life long marriage. My aunt's H left her decades ago and for a long time she was crushed. He left her for OW and married the OW (after the OW's h died by suicide....uncle felt OW "needed" him more than aunt did, and left aunt with their 2 kids, so he could raise OW's "fatherless" kids....) ??!! ANYHOW....

Years passed and OW calls my aunt to ask her, where uncle is, as in, was uncle WITH aunt again?!!?? ( i.e., (STILL A CHEATING HUSBAND 8 YEARS LATER WITH 'LOVE OF HIS LIFE' WIFE #2)) My aunt told me it was at that moment she suddenly had a huge weight lifted off her shoulders. She realized that if she had stayed with uncle, she would STILL be up at night every time he "worked late" and she'd still have that stomach ache hurting her in the gut every time he acted the least bit "distant/cold/tired," etc....She was FREE!! What a relief and what a favor uncle had done AUNT... Yes, she remarried (27 years now )and is happy, btw. POINT is that by taking a man back IF he is not ready to come back and without any change on both your parts, you are fooling yourself. It won't work in the long run and you know what? LIFE IS SHORT, and it's too short to be in a crappy scary marriage asking "is he gonna leave me today or tomorrow or in 5 years...", ????? OUCH!!! Enough.

You know the one thing worse than being alone now??? is having him come back and then finding yourself is IN THIS EXACT POSITION 5 - 10 years from now, instead of 1) fixing the real problems and having a good marriage or 2) ending it and moving on in your life with the possibility of meeting a good guy or 3) moving on and discovering things about yourself you'd never have discovered if you were still in a BAD M, or 4) BEST CASE-- a combination of the above.

Oh, the other worse thing than being alone.....is wishing you were.....
Regardless of who did what to whom, lose the scorecard and realize that the reality is, To reconcile you both have to recognize and want to rectify whatever roles you have in the problems of the M, AND you both have to forgive each other. I am not sure, but for me the forgiving part is taking longer than I thought AND is harder than the first part. You are still in the obsessing first part asking WHY? Why? why???????? There is no "why" for now, it just is. Cope with what you have and move forward or you will be STUCK in marital limbo until your h gets so sick of it and smothered by your needs, HE"LL bolt out the door.

Sorry to "yell" but I am in a hurry at the moment. You need to read and listen to what we are all saying. You can get yourself through this, but it really is something that ONLY YOU can do. Yes with God's help, ours, the counselors --and the xanax if the alternative is grovelling or doing something crazier.... BUT it is ultimately you that has to decide how you want your life to go. Be the author of your life, Tam. Stop letting this confused man write the novel of your life. Be done with this chapter and start writing the book of your life the way YOU want it to go. How will the next chapter be for you? What will Tam do?? Find out in the next chapter.... TAM is writing it!!
j-
Posted By: Heartbroken

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 01:09 PM

Tam,

Please listen to what everyone here is saying. My H and I are piecing and I am sooooo grateful to get Lin's perspective on not taking them back to soon. My H has been in the apt for seven weeks now and at first I could not wait for him to come home for good. Now I am starting to go through a lot of the feelings I repressed while being the good DB'er for him. I finally can be truly angry at him and sad in front of him - he is taking all my emotions and accepting them since he was not availble to do this until now. I am now questioning him on why he wants me - if it's just b/c the Ow let go first then I do not want him. I know I love him tons and want to be with him - but it cannot be one sided or it will not work. I am at the point where he needs to help me see where he is at and why he wants to be together again. I cannot have him back unless he can show me why he wants to be back. This last month has been good and bad - very bittersweet - I could just sweep everything under the rug but I do not want to end up here again in five years.

You are getting tons of good advice and yet you stick your head in the ground on most of it. I feel you are stalling the office move b/c you just cannot let go. What you fail to realize you cannot move forward until you truly let go - and actions speak louder than words. It's hard to fool this group - we have all BEEN THERE and we are only trying to help save you any unnecessary pain but sometimes we can only grow by going through the pain. Only you can change this by changing YOU-- NOT H, NOT OW only YOU!!!

Belive me the Piecing part isn't any easier - there are still as many doubts on our success...

Take care and try to really understand what we are all saying - I know it's so damn hard but at this point what is your alternative???? ;\)
Posted By: believing_isaiah43

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 02:08 PM

Warning: 2x4 Ahead

You know, you are just killing any chance you have here. Asking him for a hug? Asking him when he's coming home? WTF? He TOLD you that you were "trapping him in his office" and you stayed there? I cringed when I read your post.

Do you not think we ALL wanted to do that? That it's EASY to do what we're telling you? IT'S NOT EASY. IT'S THE MOST FCUKING DIFFICULT THING IN THE WHOLE WORLD. For ALL of us who love our spouses. NOT just you. I promise you that. There are days I do not want to get out of bed, and my H is home. There just isn't enough Xanax in the world to make it all go away, honey.

But you HAVE to reign it in. HAVE to.

How appealing is a person who hovers? Who is all in your business? Who keeps trying to see where you are emotionally? Who is trying to SMOTHER you b/c they can't handle things without you? If you were dating a guy like you acted in your last post, you would quit answering the phone when he called.

Girl, I have been that person with my H. I understand what it feels like to be so emotionally desperate. I DO.

You can get all the great advice that these people are spending dispensing, but it's ultimately your CHOICE to ignore it.

This board is full of hurting, sharing, caring people, who come out of their own pain and try to help others. They are spending time with you; precious time reading and responding to each post. Please respect them, and yourself, by LISTENING and ACTING on what they are TELLING YOU.

I've been on this board for almost a year now (sigh) and I am no poster child for how to act, I assure you. Everybody struggles emotionally at times, but there is a fundamental difference between those who 'get it' and those who understand yet don't apply it. Not all of those who 'get it' save their M's, but they are so much happier in the end either way. At this point, you have nothing to lose by changing your behavior. Please do it.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 06:42 PM

Tam,

Like Believing says, I cringe when I read your posts....really, I do cringe. It's as if you have taken a class in doing the exact opposite of what is attractive to your H, and you keep doing it. Did you really read the DB books? Remember the part about going down "cheeseless tunnels" which means not repeating behaviors that are NOT working? WHY are you soooo blind to this? Asking for hug is big a ONE TIME no-no. Doing it AGAIN is just... pathetic and soooo UNATTRACTIVE. If you were a man doing this to a woman we'd call it stalking, and maybe sexually assaulting. And just sooo unlikely to work. It hasn't worked yet, has it? So, for the love of GOD, WHY are you still doing it?

Because it feels good to have a tiny ounce of forced affection, even while knowing you are DECREASING the chance of ever really getting LOVE from this man, the more you take his scraps, which he begrudingly gives? (Even you know it only feels good when you lie to yourself about what it means) And then analyzing those scraps to death? Any hug or answer to a question about Your R/M that YOU force out of him, is NOTHING based on truth. Frankly, if I were in his shoes and it was the business that forced me to HAVE to be around my spouse when I really wished I weren't, I'd probably do or say anything (like give a hug or say "yes, we'll be okay" ) just to keep them quiet so I could get 1) some work done and or 2) get the hell out of the room as fast as possible. I'd RUN to OP.

You are pushing him away and you have only you to blame for that...Sorry, but you are really doing EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what you need to do, and what everyone here is saying. Do you really want this guy? Any guy? Do you just disbelieve us? Or do the tiny scraps at the moment, outweigh the worth of really having a lasting R? That means doing the work it takes to make a life on your own, which is the ONLY way to get him to return, IF in fact it is possible.
Look, all I know is what you are doing, over and over again, is making it all worse. Don't you get that? This is exactly what my younger sister did and she smothered her H and hovered, begged, pleaded, pursued, and he could not run fast enough away from her. By LAW he had to stay with her a certain amount of time. She'd hungrily gobble up "signs" of his "love" like staying in the same room with her to watch his favorite show, or laughing at the same funny thing.....SHE really saw these "signs" of him coming around and having doubts/confusion.....he remarried 30 days after the divorce. It was the soonest the law in that state allowed remarriage...
That was 10 years ago and my sister still stares at the one photo of OW and him and stares and stares and wonders why/why/why? No insights into what she did wrong before of during the M....just self absorbed pain and misery and bitterness, which affects her PRESENT marriage and her R's with her stepchildren. Nope, her remarriage did nothing to help her feel like she moved on....she is still stuck...and it still pollutes almost everything in her life...10 years...She even thought having him write the support checks, rather than getting a court allotment directly out of his check, would "remind" him of her every month and maybe that would....??? SO, the OW wrote the checks with HER name on the account instead of my sister's....ouch. AND then when the checks were late sometimes, the OW wrote "nice" notes to my sister about how the cash flow was low that month, what with the new BABY she had with sister's ex-husband.....OUCH!! But my sister kept setting herself up for this. Why? At some level, I think she felt she did not really deserve love, and wanted to disprove it, but kept reaffirming it. Whatever the reason, it was unhealthy. And so is YOUR behavior. At some point soon, you will have to look at YOUR ROLE in this sitch. If you have been like this IN the M, hovering and smothering, then you really have a huge role in the problems you are now facing. And you are still making it all so much worse. That's my 2 x 4.
j-
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/11/07 11:41 PM


...well said J...great.

Tam move the office home this weekend...just do it.

YOU are delaying his chances of return...
" " causing him to stay with her...
" " pushing him...

YOU say you don't cling...last Hawaiian trip...you landed home
and he wanted to see a site...you asked to go along...he wanted
to go by himself...you asked to go again...after being with him
for a solid week...he needs space from you...that's why he's
with her...it's your neediness that he despises....yet you keep
pushing, pushing and pushing youself on him...
Posted By: osu43130

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 12:55 AM

Quote:
yet you keep
pushing, pushing and pushing youself on him...


I just wanted to reiterate this point. That is all I have to add....

Later,
O
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 04:43 AM

As always, thanks for all of your advice and support, guys. I will be thinking about what you've said...
Posted By: osu43130

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 12:04 PM

Hey,
I just wanted to add one more thing.

It obviously have not worked so far(What you have been doing), so why not try something new? That is what DBing is all about. Finding out what actually works and not traveling down those "Cheeseless Tunnels".

There are a lot of very wise people here on your thread trying to help you. You should feel very lucky that you have the select group of people that you do giving you advise because IMHO they are the best that are on here.

How it is just your choice if you want to listen to them or not.

Take care and I hope YOU can find a Happy place for YOU...

Later,
O
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 03:31 PM

2940,

Are you ok? I miss your long posts. The one liner is very uncharacteristic of you. No one is trying to discourage you from posting or sharing with us anymore. Everyone just wants to help you reach your goal.

25yrsMLC's story of her sister is profound. It proves everything in the beginning chapters of DB and DR.

The people here are doing what my dad did to me.

I am proud of how you are beginning to handle the meds. Let us know how it went at the doctor's.

Thinking of you.

HS
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 06:05 PM

Thanks for your concern. Yes, I'm okay. I just keep screwing up and doing the wrong things - I screwed up again today already.... I'm just angry at myself that I keep sabotaging things and can't seem to pull myself together to do what I know I need to do. I'm so bull-headed sometimes. And if I mess this up because I didn't do the right things, I'll never forgive myself. Even thought I KNOW that, I still just can't seem to get my act together. This is one of, if not the, most important thing I'll probably ever have to do in my life, and I'm just messing it all up. I'm not saying this to make anyone feel sorry for me - rather, I'm just expressing my anger at myself for the person I am being.

So, yes, I'm okay. I'm just mad at myself right now and am just in thought I guess.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 07:11 PM

Tam...I really don't know what to say...there isn't much any of us can do to get you together on what you need to do...I know in my desperation I was willing and ready to do what ever I needed to do to correct the situation...yes, I backslid a few times (more then I would like to admit)...but I made sure for every time I did that I put on a strong front and did a 180 for the next several times I got the opportunity to see H...

I am wondering if you are in denial...that because no one knows about the H's OW that you feel you can continue doing these pitiful things to ease your insecurities (as apposed to facing your fears and doing what needs to be done against what your natural tendencies are)....maybe you feel if you do what others are advising and it doesn't work that you really will have failed....maybe it is a fear of failure so your are creating a failure so that "IF" H doesn't come home you can always fall back on "Oh, If only I had done this."..."Oh, If I hadn't have been so this."...

I think what you really need to do is sit down...really concentrate (no drugs and maybe consider talking to someone with a very level head)and think about what you want...what you need to do...this is something you need to do...then when you find out what it is that you really want...that you really really want...then you need to set your plan...if you don't...you WILL FAIL...
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/12/07 11:21 PM

Thanks, Lin. It's not that I don't know what I want; I know that I want to save my M. I just keep getting impatient and wanting this pain to end and acting out of desperation. I have been absolutely horrible with H today with asking him questions about us... I am just having a bad day of not keeping myself in check, and I know that all I am doing is pushing him further away. So I'm angry at myself. Like I said, I recognize that I'm doing and saying some wrong things; it's not that I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'm just having difficulties with restraining myself from acting out when I get desperate feeling. I just want this to all be over.

Sometimes it doesn't even feel real... It seems like a horrible, horrible nightmare, and I try to wake myself up. It's hard to believe that my life is what it is right now, and I'm just so bull-headed of trying to do it my way when I know that's not working. What happened in-between when he said he didn't want to be married to me anymore and the other day when he said he did want to work on us? I GOT A LIFE AND WENT TO VEGAS WITHOUT HIM AND DIDN'T TALK TO HIM AND MADE HIM THINK!!!! I believe that that is a lot of where the change in thinking from him came. And now, I've been back to my old, desperate, needy ways since he told me on Easter that he wanted to work on us, and I know I'm pushing him away again. I just got a taste of this ending and got impatient.

So, yes, I know what I want, and I know what I need to do to work towards getting it, and I'm not in any way trying to disrespect any of you and your time in trying to help me. I am so appreciative of all that you have done and are doing to support and guide me. I'm sorry if any of you feel disrespected; that's by no means my intent. As I've told you before, I don't want to come on here and lie about what I've done, how I'm feeling, etc. So, when I mess up, I tell you about it. When I do something I feel good about, I tell you about it. You guys get the whole enchilada with no sugar-coating.

I appreciate your "2X4's" very much and know that I need them. Just don't think I'm not listening to what you're saying. I DO get it and am just having a really hard time with restraining myself from doing the wrong things. I will continue to work on it with my end goal in mind and hope you will continue to stand by my side and keep kicking my butt and reminding me of what I have to gain, what I have to lose, etc.

And I hope in the meantime you'll let me continue to just be me and tell you when I mess up and when I do better, etc. Just know that I want to do the right thing, okay? I know sometimes I do the exact opposite of what I'm supposed to do and that it is just making things worse, and I need to work on putting myself in check whenever I feel the need to act on my desperate feelings. Not seeing him while I was in Vegas helped tremendously, and I know that I need to work on distancing myself from him. Moving my office would help; I recognize that.

Anyway, I'm rambling again but just wanted to check in and let you know how things are going... Thanks for all you do for me.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 12:22 AM

Tam...It makes me wonder now...are we enabling you to continue in this self-destructive course by being here to pick you up???

I am not suggesting you sugar coat anything...but by the same token if we come here and pick you up time and again...are you REALLY learning the lessons...maybe if we all pulled back...gave you "space"...you might WANT to hear what we have to say...much in the same way that a MLC'er reacts to things...by us hand-feeding you are you pulling away and doing what we say not to...doing what YOU WANT to do instead of what WE KNOW you should be doing...

I guess I don't understand this...when I was faced with the very same issue of losing my H forever...I heard the advice given (btw, my posts got maybe 2 or 3 responses and NEVER locked one up)...I acted on the advice to the best of my ability...the last thing I wanted to do was to seal the coffin...I don't understand if you REALLY DO GET THIS...WHY WHY WHY are you continuing to do all the things we have lovingly advised you not to, have sternly advised you not to, have beat you over the head about doing...Tam I really don't get it...

I am really considering let you fly solo for a bit...and am thinking the others might understand where I am at...and when YOU REALLY REALLY DO GET IT...AND YOU ARE REALLY REALLY READY to work on YOU...we will be here...

I am not trying to be mean, insensitive, or unkind...but I feel we are enabling you...and I feel that until you are too the point of truly wanting to make the changes you need to do that WE ARE ALL just wasting our words...I know you don't think so...but then your H probably doesn't think so when he is listening to you or ignoring you...he probably feels he is doing the best thing for himself (even though it isn't working)...

So Tam...what is it going to be???
Posted By: osu43130

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 12:48 AM

Quote:
I DO get it and am just having a really hard time with restraining myself from doing the wrong things.


It takes time to get it right. You just need to find patience.
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 12:53 AM

Now, now Tam...

...when life hands us lemons or whether we "create them" for
ourselves, we can ALWAYS make lemonade...

Tell us what happened today...be specific...I'm sure there is
something salvageable...

It's my opinion, that you fight yourself, you know you want him
back (the desparate mode - fear of being alone, relying on your-
self) and NOT wanting him back (he cheated, his selfishness makes
you look at your issues, you don't trust him, you really don't
like him much).

This vascillation between the two causes the confusion. You are
spinning - going nowhere...

Try this...keep away from him, as much as you can...think, by
yourself...what makes you happy, feel good about yourself?
DO NOT SAY HIM, BEING MARRIED TO HIM...NOTHING ABOUT HIM.

How do or will you go about creating your happiness?

You see, he's not in your life now, you are alone...where you
need to be - to regroup. You, seem to feel, if he just comes
home...all will be alright. It won't...the work will be just
starting...

By pursuing him, making the same mistakes over and over, you are
subconsciously determined to kill the marriage off...your mind
knows that he is wrong...but, the other half stays afloat in the
hopes that he will come back. It's the child syndrome...crying
for something you cannot immdiately get...then, wanting to really
destroy it because you can't get it by your ways.

I'll go out on a stretch here - it's not love Tam...it's fear of
loosing...your fear far outweighs the love for him. Love listens
to each other, it waits patiently, it doesn't control, it allows
each other their personal freedom, their thoughts whether agreed
to or not, without pushing your needs on each other, nor to be
ignoring other's needs.

You need to be alone now....just don't beat yourself up. You
need to get angry...purge those feelings...let him go...save you
first...that's the only thing you have right now...YOU...take
VERY good care of...YOU.
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 01:20 AM

Hi TimTam (do you have those yummy biscuits called Tim Tams - or is that a uniquely Australian delicacy???)

Oh you poor possum. Girlfriend, I could tell you stories that would have your hair stand on end about some of the backsliding adventures I had. I group my backsliding stories into categories - there was the 'Drinking and Dialling' preiod where every second night or so I'd drink too much wine and then call him. Sometimes I'd speak to him (goodness only knows what I said), sometimes, even more humiliatingly I'd call and when he'd answer I'd hangup - and just for fun I'd do that 2, or was it 20, times ..... oh I cringe. I don't know what I thought he was going to do. Like he might say "OK, now that you've interupted me for the 10th time tonight, and this is the 7th night in a row, I've realised that I love you and I'm going to come home to you and we'll pretend none of this ever happened." Sure!

Then there was the 'Just take me back I'll do anything for you' period which culminated in me on the floor, holding on to one of his legs as he tried to escape out the front door of our house - yes, you can imagine!!!

So when I started applying the DB principles, and thought I could strategise with them, I moved on to the very sophisticated 'I"ll pretend I have a boyfriend to make him jealous' period - which backfired big time, when the boy I was pretending was my boyfriend, didn't realise I was pretending. Hubby was jealous, but so what? It made no real difference. Except to illustrate to me that I really had to start at the beginning and ask myself the hard questions about why I wanted to be in my marriage - or indeed in any relationship.

I guess you are also going through the horrible part where you start to know what you don't know. First of all you are questioning yourself about your relationship - like 'how could I have missed all this?' 'can I believe anything about him/us'. I remember thinking that all my adult life I had sincerely, but blindly believed and trusted every word to come out of my husband's mouth.

In hindsight, it was very niave, but I was so in "love' with him that I put him on a pedestal that made him a complete and trusted rock. when I started hearing him mislead me, or say things that I knew he was saying just to shut me up (and you can tell when they are doing that) I was gutted.

Are you at that stage yet?

I also know the feeling of just wanting it to all be over. I remember just standing in my office one day thinking how the hell can I be expected to go through this and also thinking, 'how in the world do so many people get divorced if it's this bad'. I agree it is the WORST thing I've ever been through.

Thing is though that you've been sent this for a reason. I don't know what the reason is and I dont' know what it is you're supposed to learn. I do honestly believe though that there is a reason.

Don't be so hard on yourself. We all stuff up and backslide. Sure, some more than others - but so what? We are all different and we all accept different levels of stress and distress in our lives.

Keep at it. Remember it can only get better from here, because it sure as billyo can't get any worse!!! Yes.

Lots of love
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 02:21 AM

After I posted, I read imLins post and thought to myself - well, there you have it, that's the reason I'm divorced and she's not. I waited too long to really 'get' it and 'live' it and hence too much damage was done.

I've been thinking about it ever since though and I don't think it's as simple as that. My H did eventually want to reconcile, after I'd been DBing for about 12 months (I could have made that quicker if I'd played by the rules without all my tragic backsliding!!!), but I decided I didn't want to be with him.

I had enough space and had done enough work to realise that the world didn't begin and end with him. I am OK on my own and in fact if he had been one of my girlfriends partners, I would have had strong views about the way he behaved, how he treated her/me, what level of trust there would be in the relationship for the future - but mostly I had done a heap of growing and learning and he hadn't done anything. He was still the messed up, need to be in a relationship, any-relationship-will-do, man he was when it all started.

I so didn't respect that.

I don't want to be with a man who is an emotional cripple, because I'm not anymore. I decided that as much as I adore him, I've left him way behind. He didn't have the guts to talk truthfully about where he was at before, and he wouldn't in the future. He didn't have the self respect to make decisions based on what was right - he wanted what was easy - I want right.

To cut a long ramble short though - the bottom line is, in my experience backsliding doesn't make it hopeless - it just makes it longer.
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 02:33 AM

As always, thanks, guys. Don't have much time to write right now but wanted to check in real quick to tell you a few things...

First off, 1210, my "mess-up's" for today are as follows:

1.) Ask him YET AGAIN at the job site if we can "talk." Then ask him if everything is still okay and if he's coming home soon, why did he change his mind that he now wants the M when he said he didn't before, when is he coming home, will he come home and just sleep in the other room for a while and we'll take things slow, yada, yada, yada. Asked for a few hugs. Chased him out the door to his truck. Asked for another hug and asked him if he was angry at me. Asked if we could go out to dinner tonight... Oh, Lordie....

2.) He gets up to the office, and I attack him again, this time asking if he wants to sell our home (he said it was hard to be home right now) so that we could start fresh somewhere new. Told him I was worried that he was going to procrastinate on getting this done. Asked him if he would please take care of this soon, yada, yada, yada. Luckily, I had an appointment that showed up that busted up that wonderful conversation.

3.) Went to the post office this evening, and I see what I believe to be OW's car in the parking lot there. You see, I've developed this horrible habit now of every time I see a white car of any type, I glance at the license plate to see if it's hers. Silly, huh? So, per my usual habit, I glance at this white car's license plate, and it's hers! (I think.) Panic hits, and freakshow emerges. I speed out of the parking lot, as I DO NOT want to see this woman. I met her once back in about September or so and vaguely remember what she looks like. I remember thinking that she was pretty at the time. H introduced me to her... I think they were probably talking then but don't think the A had started yet - don't think he would have had the nerve to introduce me to her if that was the case.

4.) Call H just to hear his voice because I'm freaked out. He doesn't answer, so I leave a message about some bogus business thing I need to talk to him about as I'm driving frantically to a post office on the other side of town... H calls back and we talk about the business item and I ask if he wants to go to dinner. He says he's going to keep working on what he's doing and will probably just grab something on the road... We get off the phone.

Yes, that's how wonderful I've done today. Can you say shoot myself in the foot???? WTH am I doing? It's been a bad day of backsliding; that's for sure. And I can sense that H is about ready to tackle me...

So, I drove around for a while after going to the post office and then decided to take Lin's advice of really thinking about this for a while. I didn't have anyone I could talk to, but I just wanted to think. So I went to a parking lot that overlooks the ocean - one of my favorite "think places." And I sat there in the rain by myself in the car for about a half hour and just reflected on this whole thing.

1210, you are right on the money in that I don't want to lost my M. It's the fear of loss right now and of giving up on the commitment I made to this man more than this undying love I have for him right now. Do I love him? Sure. Do I WANT to have an undying love for him? Absolutely. Do I feel distant, betrayed, hurt, angry, unloved, unwanted, etc., etc.? Um, yeah.

You know what, I gotta run real quick for a few. I'll be back to finish my story... To be continued!!!!
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 02:35 AM

Virginia

You are too, too funny...Aussie!!!

I'm divorced as well, but we live together on weekends...

Everyone is different...you became a beter person because of
it...you have a solid outlook at life and it shows - your H
never grew.

Keep on... \:\)
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 02:38 AM

Hi Tam

" This vascillation between the two causes the confusion. You are
spinning - going nowhere... ( I'm not sure how to put a quote in here so I copied it)

1210, How True this quote is. What an eye opener for me. That is exactly what it is. The other one is the fear of loosing. I had kinda of figured this out. Tam, it is right you have to begin to realize there i s no US. I have a hard time with this one because my H still is making business plans for us. Then he will also say I need to think what is best for Penny. That is what you need to do. What is the best for Tam....

"Love listens
to each other, it waits patiently, it doesn't control, it allows
each other their personal freedom, their thoughts whether agreed
to or not, without pushing your needs on each other, nor to be
ignoring other's needs."
1210 This is another good one. You are so right and you can't make someone love you the way you want. No matter how hard you try.

Virginia,
I have been there. You wait for the calls and then you call him and try the block calls just to see if he will answer those. Why can't you have the patience to not react you think you are going crazy. I also put my husband on a pedestal even though he was really tough on me. I stood up for him with his family and friends because they all thought he was to hard on the boys and me. I thought that he would never do anything against me. I really hit a spot with him when this all came out about the OW. I told him that I never ever believed he wouldn't love me. He said he had never thought about it that way.

Tam, It is the hardest thing to try and gain control back of your life. You have let your emotions take over to the point you don't know which way to go. The way you want it to be ot the way it is now. Not knowing what which way it will turn. I'm just now feeling a little bit more control of my life and it has been a big struggle. Lots and lots of melt downs and mistakes. My big one was trying to convince my husband what the OW really trully is. It just made me feel worse and him not know who to believe and right now it is to believe her even though other people have told him about her too. So we all made big mistakes. It is the hardest thing not to push to hard and try and remain detached. If you read my thread it just happened to me yesterday.

You need to focus on you and the business. It is extremely hard. Especially your H and mine also keep making business plans for the future that include us. So my big challenge today was to think of the new business he told me about and how I could make it better for me too. That is if we did this we would do it just like he was becoming business partners with someone else. Same set of ground rules. I have to learn to become more proactive on new business and even the old business. I believe this is what you need to do too. This is becoming the confident person you were and will be come. It will better you emotionally and financially. Good luck!

Like always we are here for you. I have one friend that told me that there is a reason for all of this. Just like Virginia said. We don't know why are where it is taking us but there is a reason. It is just hard to understand.

Hey if guys have some advice left I could use some on my thread. I admire you guys so much.

Have a good night and I hope you get some sleep. Sorry I rambled on.
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 02:49 AM

Tam

Excellent that you have a think spot...that works.

What state do you live in?

Sometime soon...let me know exactly what you feel before you
start the despair...what are you feeling? I'm looking for an
immediate trigger.
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 03:03 AM

1210,

You said said you are divorced but live together on week ends.

Does that work?
Let me know?
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 03:15 AM

Penny


For me, yes...I bought a house after a few months from the day
we were divorced...he bought out my half in "our" house and is
currently living there..1.8 miles apart.

He stays over friday night through sunday night...he goes out
with friends or plays ball...but we do things together, or see
our families...the work week is just that and for errands.

Where is your current thread?
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 03:44 AM

Okay... I'm back to finish the story. The saga continues...

Thanks for your advice and thoughts, Penny. It's so good to have my "partner in crime..."

1210, I'm not exactly sure what I feel when the despair hits... Hmm... a trigger... I think I just feel a sense of hopelessness and helplessness, feeling like I just can't take this anymore and if I just TAKE ACTION and say or do the right thing, everything will be all right. I am a very impulsive person. In some aspects of life, this can be a good thing. In this particular aspect of my life, this is not a good thing... I see H sometimes, get flooded with emotions - feeling scared, angry, hurt, betrayed, wanting him back, wanting me life back, hating that we're going through this, hating my life right now, yada, yada, yada... Then I just GO... I think in my mind "you shouldn't be doing this..." as I run to him and spew at the mouth things I know I'm going to regret. I guess the triggers are just all of the intense emotions that overwhelm me sometimes. I just start panicking and going from one emotion to the next and letting them snowball and overwhelm me, and then I get impulsive and feel the need to DO OR SAY SOMETHING to try and fix it and feel better, and it rarely works...

So, to continue with the saga...

So, yes, my main focus/fear right now is that of losing my M, of the commitment I made to this man and to myself, to God, to our families and friends. I hate quitting; I hate giving up. And I want to fight for our M. Do I feel this intense set of emotions for this man in that he walks on water? Um, no. Do I think I can feel that way and do I want to feel that way? Yes. I have to believe that it's only natural when you've drifted apart as much as we had romantically before this even happened, and then to have THIS happen on top of that, that it's only normal to not feel close to your partner in that way. How could you?

My goal is to have BOTH of us genuinely make the commitment to save our M and make it something magical. My H is a wonderful man - what he has done and is doing now is not loving and it hurts more than anything, but he is a wonderful person, and I want to be with him. I want to find true love with him again. I don't think it's possible to feel that for him right now, but I pray then if we both make the commitment to make this work and make it better that I will feel that way and that I'll look back on this whole mess and know that it happened because we had lost our way... Does that make sense?

Okay, so that's part of what I thought about in my "think tank" time. That is what the counselor asked me to ponder, whether it is H that I want or that I just don't want to lose my M. It is both, but they aren't really related right now. I DO want H, but not as he/we are now or have been in the more recent past. I want to find something magical between us, and that is going to take time and a lot of work and dedication on both of our parts.

So, the other thing I thought about was this backsliding that I do. When does it happen? Why do I do it? Why am I driving myself crazy with doing the wrong things?

So, let's go through this:

1.) I get to the office every morning, and my heart pounds as I round the corner wondering whether I'm going to see his car there.

2.) I get in to the office, immediately look at his desk, and my heart pounds with hurt.

3.) I usually look in the closet behind his office to see if he's moved anything or taken anything, etc.

4.) I go upstairs to my office and immediately look at the bed to see if it's been messed up.

5.) If it IS messed up, I immediately think about what he was wearing the day before so that when I see him that day I can tell whether he actually stayed at the office or not by seeing if he has different clothes on or not - and then I wonder whether maybe he has spare clothes in his car and still could have stayed at the office regardless of what he is wearing.

6.) If the bed is NOT messed up, then I get a pang of hurt knowing that he stayed the night with OW.

7.) H eventually arrives at some point during the day, at which point he always comes in to the office and never says a word to me. My heart pangs again.

8.) I go down to see H and immediately start "examining him" to see what he's wearing, whether it looks like he took a shower and washed his hair, whether he has shaved, etc., etc. (How sad is THIS: I want to vomit every time he DOES hug me because I can smell how his clothes smell like HER house or HER detergent - I can distinctly smell that he smells different... And that hurts...)

9.) I go back up to my office and look out the window every 10 minutes to see if H's car is still there or whether he has once again left without saying anything to me.

10.) If he HAS left without saying anything to me, my heart pounds again.

11.) If he has NOT left yet, I feel comforted for a moment, only to find that the next moment I'm thinking about whether he's left yet again.

12.) He usually comes back to the office later in the evening to work for a while. So I work while he's there, constantly thinking about whether he is going to leave soon to go to OW's house.

13.) And he eventually does leave without saying goodbye, and my heart pounds yet again.

14.) And then I drive home with a pounding heart and can't sleep and start the next day all over again with the same reactions to everything.

Okay - SO HOW IN THE HECK am I supposed to make myself feel better when I keep putting myself through this day after day after day? I'm killing myself by putting myself through this. I keep telling myself that I'm not going to do most/all of the above things, that I'm just going to go to the office and work really hard and focus and get so much accomplished, and then either all of the above happens or at least some portion(s) of it. I'm putting myself through heck every day, and I'm reacting to my pain when I tackle him with my insecurities and questions and desperation. I see him and I just want to fall apart.

So, I realized, yet again, that I've just got to get myself out of that situation - not forever, but just for now. It's the healthy thing to do for myself since I'm doing the above things and having such a hard time letting them go. I need the distance from him right now. The more I see him, the more I freak out and do the wrong things. The more I'm in an environment where he could come and go at any time and I'm always thinking about that, the more I'm sabotaging my sanity and my chances at doing what I need to do to save my M.

Worse yet, I've finally again heard the words that I've longed so much to hear from H, that he wants to save our M again. Do I know whether to believe him? No. But he's told me for a few days now when I've repeatedly asked, and that's better than a month ago when he told me he didn't want to be married to me. So, WHY the heck am I now falling apart again? I've finally made some progress hopefully by being away from him and distancing myself, and now I'm ruining it!!!! What am I doing? He says he wants to give us a chance, so I freak out and get anxious and want it to be NOW... And then I do things that push him away again...

Now, the thought of moving my office back home scares the heck out of me. As I think Lin said, I'm now thinking, "Okay, what if H decides he LIKES not having me around?" "What if H brings OW to the office because he knows I'm not there?" "What if I do this and it just pushes him away?"

Oh, yes, devil's advocate I play with my mind. Then I remember Vegas, how it was so incredibly hard but yet so much easier to be away from him - how strong I was. I still can't believe I went all by myself and didn't talk to him "live" one time while I was gone and didn't end up seeing him for a week and a half... Where did I find that strength? I found it because I was out of his space, OUR space, away from him I think.

So, I drove back to my office tonight and called the moving company and scheduled my move back to our house for next Monday morning at 8am. I felt empowered and strong after I made the call, and now I feel sick to my stomach... I'm scared. I'm hurt. I don't want to lose H. I want to save my M. So, at this point, because of everything I've mentioned above, moving my office home seems the best thing to do right now to help my cause.

I can only pray that by me not being around anymore he will continue to "come around" and miss me and that his feelings he proclaims of wanting to save our M will strengthen and he will continue with his own journey. I can also only pray that this move will help ME to find the strength to continue my own journey, without torturing myself every day, day in and day out.

I'm so scared... The tears are starting now, so I better run before I get all upset.

Monday is the start of a new day, a new week, a new me, a new H, and hopefully the start of the beginning of saving my M...
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 04:14 AM

Tam

I know you're scared...have a good cry...let it out...

YOU are making the BEST and smartest decision by moving your
office home...

However, we are here to prevent you from falling. We are here
to help you think straight...to get you back, to where you need
to be.

BTW - you ask all those questions continually because in your
mind - you don't believe him, you want to, but you don't trust
him - he's not given you any true signs of working towards the
marriage. You know this, so you want any kind of reaction...

Your own mind is trying to self-preserve you...it's trying to
lessen the pain...but you punish yourself by hurting you...only.
It doesn't hurt him...but, it destroys you...you are angry at
yourself - when the anger should be focused on him.

We'll talk tomorrow...what state do you live in?
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 04:49 AM

You go girl. In the world of healing and growing - scary is good.

I know it feels weird, and counter-intuitive, that taking yourself away from him will draw you to him - but think about it the other way. You were just going along giving him a little bit of attention every now and then until you knew he was moving away from you. Then he's in your head 110% of the time.

It will be the same for him. While you are 'there' all the time, he doesn't have to put you in his head - but as you move away from him, he will have to fill that head space up with you himself. He will. You'll see.

Stop thinking about OW. Don't give her any power over you. If you must think of her, imagine her to be a golf club or a fishing boat - she's just something that gives him another place to be. Get her out of your head.
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 05:08 AM

Tam,

You've made the first big step by calling the movers Great Job Girl!!
I know that sick feeling of the checking to see if anything was different in his trailer and in his pick up ,when I would check the phone bill. It's an anxiety panic attack that we set ourselves up for. I still get them in smaller doses. It is a big knot in your chest and stomach. But as time has gone by an I think I have hardened up Thanks to reading all the advice you guys have given. They are not so bad. Sometimes it feels like someone has hit you in the stomach.

I know what you are saying about distance.. I was wishing at one time my H would stop helping his brother and leave and go on another job he was thinking about. It is easier to find yourself while they are away.

Well it is late. You are doing great. One step at a time. Keep moving forward.

You are starting a new LIFE...You Can and Will DO IT.

1210, my new thread was help YO YO H is killin me. Can you tell I had had it the other day.

Good night Guys.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 12:24 PM

Calling movers is good....I really wish you had done that before you had this week of "no-no's"....it will take H some time to miss you now....be aware of that and be prepared...you see the questions and the asking for hugs and the following him around the office and out the truck....those things WILL linger in his mind for quite awhile...and for awhile he will be relieved you won't be at the office...

The good side to this is it will give him some place to go that is neutral to both you and OW...he will have HIS space....in time he will think...and IF you give him the space, detach...this will allow him to see more clearly

During this time...and I am only going to say this once because I refuse to enable your behaviors....YOU NEED TO FOCUS AND WORK ON YOU ONLY!!!!...period...it is VITAL and CRITICAL to YOUR success...I am not talking about your R/M...but YOU

I hope you can do this...I hope you don't repeat history again...you have been given a chance that honestly I was beginning to question with all that you had done this week to sabotage yourself...so don't blow this one...

TAKE CARE OF YOU...Lin
Posted By: Heartbroken

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 01:34 PM

Good job scheduling the move - NOW JUST GO THROUGH WITH IT despite your doubts this weekend!!!!

You say: "My goal is to have BOTH of us genuinely make the commitment to save our M and make it something magical."

You cannot have a goal for H - you can only set goals for YOU!! He is NOT committed to you or the R. I believe he is saying as much about your R as he is to appease you - been there with my H - they tell us only what they think we can handle or want to hear. They really don't want to hurt us more than they already have so out of guilt they say something they feel is trivial yet we bank our whole world on what they are saying. We analyze it and make it so much more than they ever intended.

You may be running out of chances with H - are you willing to risk that right now? Avoid H at all costs....

Please try to focus on just you - go and read other people's sitch's see how they have changed over time. You need to practive patience, patience, patience! You can only change YOU not H or the OW. I know this is easier said than done but with time you will get through this with or without H.

I wish you peace! \:D
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 04:47 PM

Thanks, guys. Am having a hard day already today - woke up at 3:15 this morning and couldn't get back to sleep... Am doubting my decision about the move now, of course. I feel lost, empty inside, sad...
Posted By: Aud31

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 05:02 PM

(((2940831)))

It IS hard hon. We all feel that, have felt that. It sucks.

But the only way to get better is to fight through the pain. You can't give in to it, or it will never really go away.

I understand the doubting...just read my thread, I feel like a yoyo. But now I'm doing the toughest thing I've ever done, and I am beginning to feel stronger and better about ME.

You deserve that too. Don't falter!
Posted By: Heartbroken

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 05:17 PM

Well you know the alternative to moving the office - you probably will help expedite the ending of any R you have left with H.

It's hard to face the truth...we have all been here...we are just trying to save you from some of the pain --but you will go about how you feel is best for you. Try and think of the consequences of your actions - stop trying to just think of what you are feeling at the moment. Will it feel any better to see OW ultimately with your H????? \:o
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 06:01 PM

Keep doubting yourself and you will take the fast track to divorce court...then again, H may just decide to use you further...have you help him save face with the family...never come home and never divorce you....just keep this sick rollercoaster ride going...

As for me...I can see the writing on the wall...if you don't move your office out there is NOTHING MORE I CAN DO TO HELP YOU...I do have my own problems and it does help me to help others...it DOES NOT help me to beat my head against a brick wall and watch someone go down with the sinking ship....so this is it...

IF THERE IS NO MOVE....I WILL THEN SAY GOOD BYE...if you move....I will continue to do what I can...you had realized how Easter could impact things negatively for you yet at the last minute you folded and went...what has been then consequences of that since???...begging, pleading, questioning, hugging, trapping....so I am stating for the record now that if you back out of moving your office that you will continue with more of the same and I can't do anymore to help you...sorry but that is how it has to be...and in time I am sure others who have been here from the start with you will do the same...

I am committed to not enabling you in your crippled state any longer...it has been long enough...get it together or keep sinking into the sad dispair that you claim to hate....
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 08:21 PM

Tam--

I swear to God I will go to MY doctor and get xanax to take MYSELF if I have to read that you asked your h for yet another hug....And HS--where are you?? Find something for Tam to take that will make her mouth NOT ask him anything about the M, let alone analyze it or repeat it, over and over and over...OMG!! The asking for hugs--really hits me hard b/c of my beautiful but pathetic sister's behavior-(buttons pushed, lights flashing, alarms ringing)--RE-read my sister's story b/c she constantly asked her H about the status of their M until she shoved him right out the door into OW's arms, and she asked for hugs and did that EXACT thing and I saw her stbxh's face as he "hugged" her, and he could not wait to flee... she preferred the momentary "comfort" of a hug begrudgingly given, to having self respect, and actually an increased chance of long term M success...

....okay, now I feel a little better. Did I, by chance, make my point Tam? Somehow, some way, you have to just do this, okay?
j-
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 09:27 PM

Hey 25,

If I could find somthing for Tam, I would take it myself.

I had a huge blow out with my crazy H this morning. He says he is leaving and its over.

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said that we are too different and not to take it personal.

I had a backslide. No more of that. I need to detach too.

Maybe we can invent something to help us detach from these men. Mine is more of a MLCer though. Wish they had a pill for that.
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 09:30 PM

I am going dark in my house with looney tunes.

I did one day this week and he was all sad about, I will need to see how he does with a month!!!

He really made me mad.

See Tam you have to get mad, really really mad. I am so mad right now, I am not even going into the house until he comes out to take his butt to work. Well, I have to go in for the kids. I will just lock myself in the bathroom then.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 09:39 PM

HS/Tam

I think the pill for the MLCer is arsenic, or something like that....

I LOVE the line, "don't take this personally" as a reason an MLCer gives for leaving...gee, why would you take it personally? Hmmmm, oh yeah, now I remember. B/C you are Married!! And btw, ending a marriage is a flippin' PERSONAL thing to do....sheesh!!

Okay, so you are in the human race and erred. Was it really your backslide that caused the outburst from him, or the reverse? IF you triggered the words from him, then what about text messaging him and apologizing, or setting up a time for it?

And if he is an MLCer, don't forget to ignore everything he says and believe only half of what he actually does...a lot of the reconciling consists of 2-3 steps forward, with 1-2 backwards. I am still doing that with H, but less often, less severely and with faster make ups on both ends.

They can only handle so much guilt/shame and we have to make sure we can find the line between wise enforcement of a healthy boundary, and holding something over someone's head forever. They have to know you are capable of moving forward. And yes, that means forgiving, and no, that is not easy. Hardest thing ever, so far. I keep thinking I have forgiven H, but then some trigger comes up and bites me in the rear. I think forgiveness (yes it is for us, etc) is like having a baby. You conceive it, it grows and eventually you give birth to it and you're done. But it takes a long time to go from embryonic status to full fledged "I'm Here!" status. Make sense? What's up with your H anyhow? I don't know your sitch, where is your thread? If it's not intuitively obvious, I'll be lost in cyber land b/c I am computer illiterate. In law school the computers were just emerging. I figured all the little people who would eventually work for me at my big important law firm, would know what to do with the silly machines...BIG mistake.
j-
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 10:02 PM

Tam

????????? You feel lost, sad and unable to sleep ?????????

FOR moving office furniture, from the office, to your home that
you live in, but is still owned by your husband and you jointly -the time being...they are material things - a desk, chair, files,
papers, office products...these things have no feelings. You
are having them moved from point A to point B...you aren't going
to throw them out...they don't represent your marriage...they
are pieces of your job...that's all...just furniture.

You are NOT:

1. asking for a divorce
2. telling your husband you don't love him
3. leaving him
4. showing him you aren't honoring your vows
5. failing
6. giving up
7. loosing anything
8. lost
9. sad

You ARE:

1. moving an office...only
2. going to be able to work
3. going to be able to concentrate
4. getting out of the source of your pain...your husband
5. going to get back your personal power
6. going to accomplish much more
7. going to feel empowered
8. going to feel better...less stressed, more focused - like
a weight has been lifted

It would be fun to rearrange the house...put the desk on an angle
or add potted plants...hang motivational pictures...this is your
office...all yours...


Tam, sweetie,...this is your emotional rescue...from all of your
pain...this will let you gain control...the pain will subside...

Splurge...buy a new fax...fax him papers, info. he needs...it will save you gas...buy yourself a new outfit...eat a lobster...
reward yourself for making the decision to save your marriage...
by moving the office home...you will soon see the results....
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/13/07 11:31 PM

TimTam - what is it exactly that you are doubting about the move?

I do know that you are doing the best you can as fast as you can. I don't doubt that for a second. I also know the horrible feeling of acting before you can stop yourself (that was my drinking and dialling period!!!). I really empathise.

Concentrate on doing what works - then you will do less of what doesn't work. OK?

Have you read anything about the law of attraction?
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 07:26 AM

Tam,

How are you doing? Here is a link for my new thread. Steelersfan posted some good stuff on there. It helps me to read it over and over. It is about standing.


25yrsMLC,

Here is a link to my threads

New one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1012900&page=1#Post1012900

Old one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=960988&page=3#Post960988
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 10:28 AM

Thanks, HS. Yes, the information posted by Steelers Fan is very helpful. Thank you for sharing it. I hope it helps you, too.

Well, imagine this... I'm up again in the middle of the night and can't sleep! I know it's a stretch and hard to believe, right? Ugh...

Thanks for all of your posts and support of my move. I am hanging in there so far. I have not called the moving company to cancel and would not do so on Monday morning on short notice so am hoping I can find the strength to follow through with this, for me.

H called me this morning to let me know that he was getting some flowers for the job site if I wanted to stop by to put them where I wanted them to be planted so that I could participate. (I recently told him he has been making a lot of decisions by himself about the job site that we normally would make together and that that bothered me.) Anyway, it was nice of him to think about what I said and consider my feelings.

So I spent most of the day doing that. H was there most of the time working, and we had some nice intermittent conversations about business. I know I shouldn't have spent so much time with him today, but at least I did not backslide in asking any R/M questions or asking for a hug or anything like that. He started talking about a new piece of real estate he was looking into buying (WE would be buying), and he was asking me some questions about financing and whatnot. I participated in the conversation and plan to not really say anything about not wanting to buy anything else "together" right now until this is sorted through until/if he actually becomes serious about putting something under contract to buy. No use in rocking the boat prematurely. So, he ditched me at the end of the evening when I had a meeting with someone, which was fine and expected.

I can sense how my ways the past several days have pushed him away - or I may just be overly sensitive right now. I know I must do what it takes to, as Virginia says, focus on doing what works so that I can do less of what does not work. What works right now is giving him space so that he has a chance to miss me and us and see what it will be like without me. Although it hurt to be away from him while I was in Vegas and when he took off those couple of days to wherever he went, I suspect that that is the time he did his thinking which he claims to have done to reconsider his decision about saving our M. If I don't let him continue along that journey, I am just going to push him away, and I know that.

Yes, 25, I realize that I DO find comfort in the short moments he sacrifices to give me a hug or reassure me about our M rather than avoid those contacts and focus on how that will affect our LONG-TERM relationship. I get impatient and scared and just want to feel some comfort, even if it's short-term. I know that at the end of the day that only hurts our long-term chances. I need to just keep reminding myself of that fact whenever I get these feelings of desperation to try to DO something that is not positive to make things better.

Lin, I hope you will not leave me, regardless of the decisions I make. I know you have your own problems, and I'm sincerely sorry that you are going through more difficulties in your M and with you children right now and hope it all works out for you. You have worked so hard and been so patient; you deserve to come out standing on the other side happy and with your family intact. I know with all of the strength you have you will find a way to do this if it's what you really want. Your advice and encouragement has helped me through many a bad day; it has truly been invaluable for me. Please know that and that when I don't do exactly what some/all of you think I should do, it's not because I'm not listening and/or that I'm disrespecting either you, your time, or your much-appreciated advice. I am simply trying to find my way, the best way I know how right now with the strength I've been able to muster up so far. I am fighting a very head-strong mentality, a personality with much impatience, a personality of someone who always wants to fix things and make things better - NOW. We all must take our own journeys in this horrible hell we have/are going through. Though we may not always choose to or be able to follow in the same path as others and act as others have, it doesn't mean we are not taking our own journey and doing what it is we are supposed to be doing in our lives to learn whatever we can from it. I know you said when you were going through this you took the advice that was given to you and applied it and would have done anything to save your M. I feel the same way as you did; I promise I do. My head-strong ways and impatience and hurt just get the best of me sometimes, more often than it sounds like they got the best of you in your journey. I am where I'm at now for a reason, a reason I do not yet fully understand, a reason I need to keep searching for in order to heal and get through this and save my M and myself. These backslides I do are not healthy; I realize that. However, they must be part of this journey I am taking that will eventually hopefully make me stronger and help me to "see" what it is I am learning through all of this. I was hurt when I read your post that you would detach from me if I do not move my office, and that made me determined to do it just for that reason. But then I regrouped and realized that if I don't do this for ME and my M and not for anyone/anything else I am doing myself and my M a huge disservice and won't be taking the personal stand that I need to take for the right reasons. This is why I say that I hope you'll stand by my side no matter what happens, not because I want to hurt you by any means; that is the last of my intentions; but because you are a wonderful, caring person who has helped me so very much. Your guidance is helping me through this journey, regardless of the mistakes and backslides that I make. However, your journey is also very important to me, and at the end of the day, if you feel like I am bringing you down in any way, I certainly don't want that, so I understand and respect whatever decisions you need to make regarding sticking by me. Whatever happens, just always know how much you have impacted me and my life in the darkest days I've ever faced.

1210, thanks for shedding some much-needed light on the positives of the move. That really helped. I guess I'm just scared because it feels like I'm letting go, and I'm scared that he won't miss me and won't come around and that I'm letting go of the main opportunities I have to see him/be with him right now. Even though when I do see him I torture myself most of the time and it hurts so much, it feels like that is better than no contact at all, but I know that is probably not going to be the case and that I will feel much better and stronger when I quit putting myself in the position every single day to easily backslide and hurt myself.

For now, I just need to pray that what he has told me is true, that he really has reconsidered and does want to give our M another chance, and I need to view our glass as half full right now in order to improve my PMA rather than not believing him and letting myself continue this downward spiral of hopelessness. You're right, 1210, in what you said about me constantly asking him again about this and if he really meant it and may change his mind again, etc. - his actions for the most part don't match his words, and that's what hurts so much. To have been told that he now wants to work on our M but then to have him continue to sleep in another woman's bed is really hard to understand and internalize. Since I am not able to make any rational sense of it, I guess that is why I keep asking him about it; to make sure it is still what he is feeling, to ease my mind and heart, when in the end it only probably makes matters worse, for him and for me.

So, I'll work on just taking what he said at face value and believing it until I am asked/forced to do otherwise. I will work on giving him his space and concentrating on me and getting caught up on my work and becoming more stable physically, mentally, and emotionally. I think he respected me when I took a stand and went to Vegas by myself. Now he sees me as weak once again and needy, and I know that is not what he wants. My best chance at continuing to find strength and be my own person and draw him closer to me is to give him and myself space right now. I know I need to work on me, and I do want to do that. As I said, I guess I'm just not sure quite yet what exactly I am supposed to be learning from all of this. There are bits and pieces that are becoming more clear, such as my communication issues and codependency issues that you mention, but there is mroe than that. I honestly was NOT clingy and needy when we were "fine" before November - at least I don't feel like I was. These actions are a result of my temporarily losing my mind and going through this hell. Michele says when we do this it will be the hardest thing we've ever done. Isn't that so true? It is bringing out the worst in me in many ways. I am clingy and needy now because I feel something that is so important to me slipping through my fingers, and I'm struggling to keep it in my hands; it's that feeling of desperation, the threat of losing something so important to me, that sends me into tailspins and makes me feel like I need to DO/SAY something to get H to just listen to me and get his head straight. This obviously does not work, but that head-strong, never say die attitude inside me just doesn't want to let go sometimes. Each of our own personality traits plays into our own personal journeys. What may be easy for one person may be the hardest thing in the world for someone else and vice versa. My main weakness right now is batting my own self as far as doing what I know needs to be done to save our M (giving him space and distance and growing stronger on my own) versus what my never say die attitude is telling me (to keep doing/saying something/ANYTHING to feel like I'm being proactive in "fixing" this). As I've said all along, if I could only turn that never say die attitude in the right direction, to do what I know needs to be done, I would finally be headed consistently (to the extent possible) down the right path. This is part of my own personal journey.

Okay. I'm rambling once again. Am going to attempt to get a few more hours of sleep tonight. Just wanted to check in and say thanks for your support about the move. At this point I'm stall planning on going through with it AND am scared but hope at the end of the day it is one of the biggest and best steps I will take to save my M. Did I mention that I miss him????? Ugh....
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 01:49 PM

Hi 2940

Just a quick note for you. It is the worst feeling to be so scared and lost. But we have to dig down farther than we ever had to before and dig out that little bit of strength that is there and build on it. I know I am trying. The reserve that was always there to rely on is gone.

I am proud of you that you are making the decision to move and sticking to it. You need to. It is for you...You have to do what is right for you.

I have to run. Got a lot of business work outside today to keep me busy and to keep my mind busy. I just wnated you to know I was still thinking about you.

Have a great day today and keep your head up...GAL...
Posted By: Aud31

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 02:03 PM

"My head-strong ways and impatience and hurt just get the best of me sometimes"

Knowledge is power sweetie. Here's a place to start: Start noticing what triggers your head-strong actions/impatience, and come up with something to do when you start feeling that way...pinch yourself, count to 500, leave the room, ANYTHING to break the cycle. The more you can stop yourself, the better you'll feel about yourself, and the better the sitch will become.

Also, it's vital to have a PMA, but you need to look for the positives in yourself, hon. Hanging all your hopes on H's words is like building the Sears Tower on a foundation of sand, because he's just saying the words he knows you want to hear. It's essential to have hope, but please focus on the hope that someday YOU will be in a better place, rather than that H will someday wake up and bring you to a better place.

Understand the difference? It's subtle, but powerful.

Hang in there 2940!
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 03:45 PM

Quote:
My head-strong ways and impatience and hurt just get the best of me sometimes, more often than it sounds like they got the best of you in your journey. I am where I'm at now for a reason, a reason I do not yet fully understand, a reason I need to keep searching for in order to heal and get through this and save my M and myself. These backslides I do are not healthy; I realize that. However, they must be part of this journey I am taking that will eventually hopefully make me stronger and help me to "see" what it is I am learning through all of this. I was hurt when I read your post that you would detach from me if I do not move my office, and that made me determined to do it just for that reason. But then I regrouped and realized that if I don't do this for ME and my M and not for anyone/anything else I am doing myself and my M a huge disservice and won't be taking the personal stand that I need to take for the right reasons.


Tam...I want to comment on the red portion....if something it not healthy and we continue to do it we are not learning, we will not get stronger, and we will not "see" what we are meant to "see" until we CHANGE what we are doing....refer back to the other poster's sister....she hasn't learned because she hasn't changed!!!...Don't fool yourself by thinking that is going to make you stronger...if that was the case you would be stronger by NOW!

Now read the blue portion....see how just taking your M/H out of the loop changes it all...AND...get this...reading it this way makes you SOUND stronger...and if you SOUND stronger, you APPEAR stronger, and if you APPEAR stronger people will TREAT you stronger, AND if you are TREATED STRONGER...soon you WILL BE STRONGER!!!!

Tam...I don't want to leave you, I don't want to make you feel like you have to do anything for me, but you need to break out of that totally helpless, non-working, spiral you are in....and I don't want to be "helping" you stay in the spiral...I don't want to continue to help you keep "hurting"...that is what it is beginning to feel like...

I am glad to see you feel you are a point of no return on the moving issue...I really believe that distance will help you more then you realize right now...while H may not be sleeping with OW every night now (contrary to what your mind chooses to believe) this will give him another place to be away from everyone and think....I do believe he probably did go away to think when he was gone....he came back with a different point of view (even though you practically forced it out of him)....so stop while you are ahead!

Also...wanted to comment on that part where you said H was considering another investment for you both and until it came down to it you would not rock the boat...think about this...you are moving the office....if you decide not to further your (as in both of you) investments this might give him the wrong idea...personally I would go ahead with any of the investments he wants to do for "US"...this is keeping him thinking about you two again in the future...that is a good thing...you would just not be in his face daily with your office at home...BUT if you rock HIS boat and have your office at home he may conclude that you want OUT...so..rethink this, please....

Just remember this...the only way I was able to make the changes I needed to make was by putting the focus on ME...as long as you continue to try and figure H out, think about him and OW, wonder what he is doing, think about HIS journey....you ARE NOT focusing on your own and it hinders your ability to make the changes you need...

I can tell you right now...if H came to you and said I am ready to come home you would jump in his arms...but in a few weeks he would be gone....and maybe for good....you need to work on you...

You said you weren't clingy before, you weren't needy before...the thing is you WERE...you just had CONTROL and you manipulated and molded H into what you wanted....he then became unhappy with who he is and this is where you are...so you have to admit to yourself that there was a problem WAY BEFORE November....and you have to SEE it....that is your job/goal...and this is the key to the WHOLE ENCHILADA!
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 04:10 PM

Hi, everyone --

Have that feeling in the pit of my stomach again... It's hard to get up and get going in the morning. I just want to pull the covers up over my head and wish this would all go away. Am feeling that urge to talk to H and get reassurances again, just to make the pain go away for a while. But, then I know it just comes back again and it's a vicious cycle, so I must control those emotions and just keep plugging away.

Thanks, Lin, for writing and for sticking with me still for now. Your advice, insight, and encouragement do mean the world to me.

Quote:
Also...wanted to comment on that part where you said H was considering another investment for you both and until it came down to it you would not rock the boat...


I will take this one step at a time. When/if something concrete comes up before a reconciliation, I will deal with it then based on the current circumstances at that time. I don't want to push him away and give him the wrong impression, but I do not feel like it's wise to keep enabling HIM to have the best of both worlds.

Quote:
You said you weren't clingy before, you weren't needy before...the thing is you WERE...you just had CONTROL and you manipulated and molded H into what you wanted....he then became unhappy with who he is and this is where you are...so you have to admit to yourself that there was a problem WAY BEFORE November....and you have to SEE it....that is your job/goal...and this is the key to the WHOLE ENCHILADA!


Lin, I honestly DON'T see this right now, that I was clingy and needy in our M. I have always viewed myself as very independent. I don't feel like I manipulated him into someone he didn't want to be at all. We got here mainly because of the lack of romance and ML in our M and also because I have become more "tight-laced" in my old age... I DO see those things and have been working hard on those things. But I honestly don't see the neediness/clinginess in our M before this happened. I will continue to think about this, but I just don't see it.

If you or anyone has any ideas about what else I am supposed to be "seeing" and working on about myself, I would certainly welcome your thoughts.

Aud, I do understand about having hope in myself and in becoming a better person rather than in having hope in H's words. Right now, I don't have a PMA about myself. I still feel that lost and scared feeling, trying to find my way. H has told me before that he didn't want to be married anymore, and he could very well tell me that again. But, for now, he has not, and if I can pull any sort of positives out of what he is telling me and use that to continue on with this journey, that helps. As I said, until I'm forced/told that he has changed his mind, it helps to look at the M glass as half full right now, even though his actions are not supporting his words.

So, for Monday, since things have changed a bit as far as H now saying he does want to work on our M, I'm not sure what I'm going to say regarding my move. I want to sound empowered, yet not cold. This is so incredibly hard for me to do, and I just want to do it the right way if I'm going to do it.

Okay. Gotta run and get on with my day before I start wallowing in sadness... Thanks again, everyone.
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 04:19 PM

Hey, Virginia --

I wanted to tell you how much it meant to me that you told me/us all about the crises you went through in your situation, all of the different stages you battled with. It took a lot of courage and strength for you to share all of those personal things, and I admire you for it. Hearing the phases you went through makes me not feel quite so crazy in all of this. So, thank you for your courage.
Posted By: 12102006

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 06:03 PM

Tam

...Lin is correct. Your husband did not just wake up one day
and decide to have an affair...it was done because he was very
unhappy with "the marriage". This unhappiness started, at least
a year ago....

Your need to control is your downfall.

You didn't listen to his views
You talk over him...to get your opinions out
You manipulate his life
You have to run the show
You feel like you own him

Yet...who is not in control now? YOU

Marriage is a choice...it allows two people to walk together in
life...it doesn't mean that one person has control over the other
one...it means two people walk side by side...two individuals.
You support each other, their dreams, desires, you look after
their needs, you allow them to be their very best...while, at
times, they fall, you will be there to dust them off.

The lessons you need to learn............

Love can never be manipulated...by anyone.

Your fear of failure is what drives this obsession with your H.
It's not love...it's about you failing in your own personal
expectations, for yourself...you place more worth on your "face"
value to society than your own being...so, if H doesn't want to
be with you - destroy - kill the business...you'll still be that
miserable, unhappy, clingy person...

Love would say...I love him, so I don't want to hurt his businesss deals...I'll let him sort all this out...if he chooses
me in the end, the wait was worth it...if not, he has, my love.

Give him the full leash...let him think...if you pull on that
leash he will leave.....................

Leave him alone.......so he can find his way home...........
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 06:12 PM

Go back and read the reponse I suggested before about moving your office....it will work for this situation...it is open ended....not cold...not distant...but STRONG!
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 06:15 PM

As always, 1210, thanks for your in-my-face advice and insights. I will talk with my IC about the things you all have brought up about me. I just don't see most of it, I guess. I do see the problems in our M and know that they started long ago but don't feel like it was because of me being controlling, but maybe I'm wrong...

Yes, it is my fear of failure right now that is driving me so hard, my sheer beliefs in love and doing what it takes to make it work out. I am not able to feel an undying love for H quite yet; we've been through a lot, and that is going to take time. I'm willing to wait for it.

Don't know about the business yet. I feel like by continuing as we are and pretending that nothing has changed that I am enabling him to continue his behaviors. He has no reason to change. And I just don't think my heart wants to continue in business with him if we are not together. It hurts too much. You know how much I am falling apart inside right now. I have no desire to stand by his side in business while he has a R with someone else. I feel like I would never be able to get all of this behind me. At any rate, we'll just keep playing that one by ear as it comes along.

I just went to the store and bought some paper and a new copier for my home office. Those were the things I thought I might need at home that I don't have. So, I'm still plugging away at this whole move thing.

H called this morning to ask me a business question. When he calls in the morning, he usually says something like "good morning. how are you today?" He is so nice and pleasant, and it just tears me apart... I'm going to the job site now to keep working on my plants. He is there as well, so we'll see how today goes.

We were invited to a party some friends of ours are having tonight. I asked H if he was going, and he said he didn't know yet. So, we'll see. I am planning on going regardless of whether he goes or not. It will be nice to be around my friends and to get out for a while.

Tomorrow H has his first race of the season. He hasn't said anything to me about going. I suspect he may mention it either tonight or tomorrow, but maybe not. I'm not planning on going. His mom may call me, as she and I usually go together to watch him. So, don't know how I'm going to handle that quite yet. I know I shouldn't go, so no 2X4's are necessary... \:\)

Well, gotta run but just wanted to check in. Thanks again for your support and perspectives. I hope that I'll be able to "see" what you are telling me I need to change soon...
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 11:09 PM

Quote:
Don't know about the business yet. I feel like by continuing as we are and pretending that nothing has changed that I am enabling him to continue his behaviors.


Okay, explain to me what behaviors you are enabling him to continue....as I see it the business financially benefits you both....do you honestly think if you pulled out of the business (before any final decision has been made about M/R) that it would cause him to act differently???....you are enabling him to make money for you both...

I can understand IF there is ever a finality to your relationship that you would want to separate things but for now I think you have a good thing with the income by the sound of it....you need a job/income and to start out totally on your own with your emotional state as it is might lead to some major financial woes for you down the road...also cutting that off is more likely to make H look at you like an incomplete part of his "life"...

I think what enables him more then anything in his "behavior" is you going to parties, dinner, vacation, families or whatever with him and acting like you two are together!!!...He doesn't have to explain anything, no one has to know there is a problem, this allows him to appear as genuine as gold...if I were you(and I clearly know that I am not)...to make things a bit more real to him I would stop the social activities and family activities with him...this, more then anything would cause him to face the music...my opinion

Also, another thing about the business...if you cut and run on it he might just use that to explain to everyone why he got OW...you went nuts on him, divided the business, etc...

Where with the not going to activities with him...what can he say but something closer to the truth...and even if he lies you are still in business with him and it will be harder for him to convince others that the problem is you...

As for the insight into your control issues...1210 pointed out much better then I did the subtle ways you can take control in a marriage without realizing it...I know I always thought my H and I "talked" about things...H's perception was that I stated what I wanted and he felt if he didn't go along with it that there would be HELL to pay....or I would keep harping on him...now am I saying these are REASONS to go and have an affair???...NO!!!! but they are CAUSES for another person to become unhappy...it just so happens that some when unhappy will look to an OP to satisfy that need for them....others might act out...others might overeat/undereat....others might work more/less...so you see how just thinking that we are fine got us where we are???... really does anyone EVER leave the PERFECT spouse behind???
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/14/07 11:53 PM

Thanks, Lin. I understand and respect your views and, yes, you are right in that I do not want to cut the business off unless there is some sort of finality to things with us. My thoughts are that my point would be simply to state to him that I am not comfortable with the way things are to continue to buy more properties with him. I feel that by doing so, he's getting everything he wants, me continuing the business with him and the OW on the side. Obviously that is very hurtful to me. It's just really hard for me to continue to make him happy in the business when he is hurting me so much in the R/M. I don't know if that makes any sense or not; it's just the way I feel. There is no immediate proposition on the table at this point, so this isn't something that I need to deal with right now, but it's just something going through my mind. And I don't know, but it may cause him to wake up if he thought the business was not going to be the two of us any longer. We are excellent business partners and are fortunate to be a great team in that respect. I do NOT want to do this to manipulate him; I just don't want to feel used or like I'm okay with all of this. It's really hard to have to keep dealing with him on the business every day when my heart is breaking. I feel like that for me to just continue to do so with no end in sight is enabling him to continue on exactly like things are going...

As far as going to activities, family functions, etc. with him, you're absolutely right. However, if I do not go, he would simply say that I'm working (he told his family at Easter that I might have to work in case I didn't go), and no one would think a thing about it since both of us are such workaholics. I would bet anything that he would NEVER say anything close to what is going on as an excuse, unless we had actually finalized something. I say this just from knowing him. I DO wonder whether being around family actually HELPS our cause, simply because our families mean the world to both of us, and I know it hurts him to think about hurting our families as well through all of this. I guess that's the way I kind of felt at Easter, that to be around his family might actually open his eyes to how important family is... I don't know.

Thanks for your comments about the control issues. What you said makes sense, and I will think about that when I engage in conversations with him about ANYTHING, to try to listen to what I am saying and how I come across. I remember that H has told me on many occasions that I'm always going to "win" the argument, so why should he fight it? This would lend towards what you are saying. I'm not sure yet how to change that, but I will think about it and work on it. Thank you.

Well, things went okay when I saw H today at the job site. I finished my plants, and he was very pleasant to me. He said he'd let me know later whether he was going to the party tonight. I'm still going no matter what. Don't know if he'll go or not. When I was walking to my car to leave the job site, he was walking next to me to walk to the store next door, and he put his arm around me to hug me as we were walking (NOT provoked by me at all). I did not talk about any R/M issues with him today, did not ask for a hug, just kept it strictly business. He seemed a little more chatty today than normal, which was nice, even though it was just about the business.

Well, gotta run again so that I can get a few things done before I get ready for the party tonight. I have to work really hard tomorrow, as I've had a hard time focusing today - am nervous about the move and whatnot. Tomorrow I have lots of work to get done, and then I have to pack everything up for Monday. H usually comes in to the office first thing in the morning before going to the job site, so there is a risk that he might see the boxes and whatnot on Monday morning since I'm going to pack them tomorrow. If he does, he does. I'll just have to deal with it.

I would appreciate any insights you guys have as to what I should say to him about the move considering the current situation. As I mentioned, I want to sound empowered, but I don't want to be mean. Jody said that I could say something about all of the work that I need to concentrate on right now and that it would be good for me to be home to do that. She also said I could say something about it getting uncomfortable with our two overlapping R's, the M and the business, and that me going home to work would give us both some space and hopefully ease some stress for both of us. And I know Lin suggested that I say that I'm moving home to work and that I'll get everything done just the same and will be able to work there regardless of whether we stay in business together or not. Again, my goal is not by any means to make this a permanent move, as I really despise working out of the house, which is why we even got an office in the first place. But for now I hope the rewards will far outweigh the negatives.

Okay, gotta go. Thanks again for everything, guys.
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 01:00 AM

I think you pretty much have all the insights already on what to say regarding moving the office to home....

Good job with H today and a good response from him....see, you don't NEED to ask for a hug!!!

I think for now you need to separate the two...business and R/M....making him happy in the business has NOTHING to do with in the R/M...him making you hurt so much....the two are separate and that is how he is probably looking at it as well...one has nothing to do with the other...it is BUSINESS....your being there doesn't "allow" him to be with OW....so you two are great in business together...that is actually a plus...I don't think you need to pull that plug just yet...and I don't see H sitting on the fence forever...but he will need to see the changes in you...see that you are a positive person....see that you can allow him to "win" (this is how I handled my control problem...I would ask myself "Is this going to kill me or otherwise negatively impact my life to the point of injury?"...If the answer was NO...I let it go...or picked a better time to REALLY just talk about it.)...see that in all of this you remained constant with the business...I don't see him making a decision about OW before he is ready (and you) and I don't see that the business will force that decision...they are totally separate!

Have fun at the party...and for my part...I hope H doesn't go...you need a night of fun on your own!!!!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 01:50 AM

RE what to say to your H about moving. First off, unless you say something insane or truly cruel, don't worry too much about getting each sentence correctly as if that will make all the diff to your H.

Why not say the truth? He wants space and you need space, in order to get more work done. Period. If he pushes it, which I seriously doubt, you can simply ask him to have some empathy and think really hard why it might be a tad uncomfortable for you. You know, uncomfortable to be around someone who might want to work on the M, or might want to sleep with OW again, or whatever. Give him space and GET some space for yourself. You really do need it. Good luck, and btw, my sister (the one who die NOT handle the divorce well) has not admitted to me or our other sisters, insight into her role in the demise of her first marriage. Maybe she has some and they make her ashamed, she did gain a lot of weight. But my point is, b/c she was so afraid to really do the soul searching needed to see her role in the divorce, she continues the same behaviors. It's different now b/c her 2nd H is so sick. (her H#2 has a Brain tumor--which confirms to my sister how the universe is against her, but I digress)) But the point remains, many of the same behaviors she exhibited in her first M, she is repeating now. So I guess what I'm saying is if you really don't see how you contributed to at least SOME of what's going on, then your sitch is probably hopeless. I mean, if you were perfect, there is nothing you can do or change...Hey, the reality is the only thing you DO have control over, is you. It helps if you see those things b/c you can work on them, and you'll be a better woman no matter what happens.
good luck,
j-
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 01:51 AM

RE what to say to your H about moving. First off, unless you say something insane or truly cruel, don't worry too much about getting each sentence correctly as if that will make all the diff to your H.

Why not say the truth? He wants space and you need space, in order to get more work done. Period. If he pushes it, which I seriously doubt, you can simply ask him to have some empathy and think really hard why it might be a tad uncomfortable for you. You know, uncomfortable to be around someone who might want to work on the M, or might want to sleep with OW again, or whatever. Give him space and GET some space for yourself. You really do need it. Good luck, and btw, my sister (the one who die NOT handle the divorce well) has not admitted to me or our other sisters, insight into her role in the demise of her first marriage. Maybe she has some and they make her ashamed, she did gain a lot of weight. But my point is, b/c she was so afraid to really do the soul searching needed to see her role in the divorce, she continues the same behaviors. It's different now b/c her 2nd H is so sick. (her H#2 has a Brain tumor--which confirms to my sister how the universe is against her, but I digress)) But the point remains, many of the same behaviors she exhibited in her first M, she is repeating now. So I guess what I'm saying is if you really don't see how you contributed to at least SOME of what's going on, then your sitch is probably hopeless. I mean, if you were perfect, there is nothing you can do or change...Hey, the reality is the only thing you DO have control over, is you. It helps if you see those things b/c you can work on them, and you'll be a better woman no matter what happens.
good luck,
j-
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 09:54 AM

Thanks, Lin and 25.

I called H on the way to the party tonight and gave him the address and directions in case he ended up coming. Then he called me back to ask me a business question. Then he called me again when I got to the party and asked me about the new property he talked to me about yesterday again. He was going to call the owner again and wanted to get my input first. We talked for probably 15 minutes about it. I just kept up my side of the conversation as if nothing has changed for now. We'll see if anything comes of it. He said he'd talk to me later when we got off the phone. Then he did not show up at the party. It was for the best, I know, and I had a really great time. At the same time, I would be lying if I said I hadn't wished he would be there. I know it wouldn't have been a good thing for him to be. I just miss him; that's all. I miss spending casual time with him rather than just the business stuff all the time. Anyway, like I said, I still had a nice time. It was great to see my friends and just hang out.

25, you're right about it being important for me to see my role in what happened/is happening in our M. I do see some things, but just not all of them yet I guess. I certainly am by no means saying I am perfect. I talked about how I know our romance/sex life was paltry and that I know I have gotten a bit more conservative since we first met. Those are the two biggies that H has told me. And what Lin said about controlling our conversations and always needing to be right makes sense to me, too. I know I need to work on my communication skills. It's just hard, because we communicate just fine regarding business issues, but as soon as it turns to anything personal, H just shuts down completely... I am the same person, whether it's business or personal, and I don't feel like I "shift gears" and talk/act differently whether it's business or personal, but for some reason whatever I say and do just doesn't work for us to discuss personal matters. I know that is a big one for H for me to work on. He needs to work on it, too. Besides those main issues, I honestly am still doing some soul searching to learn what else I am supposed to be learning from all of this. It's not that I feel like I'm perfect; I know I'm far from that. I just am having some difficulties with seeing all that I am to be learning right now. AND I'm eager to just get on with this, so that's making it even more frustrating. Until I truly see for myself what all I need to work on, I can't really work on it...

Well, must get some rest before tomorrow. It is going to be a hard day. The nice thing is that I know H will be racing so I won't have to worry about him popping in at the office hopefully. He didn't say anything to me today about racing tomorrow, and his mom didn't call me yet either. I have a feeling she still may call tomorrow. I have a rough few days ahead of me, and I will make it.

I will just play it by ear as far as the conversation with H about the move. Who knows, he may not even ask me about it at all! I have an idea of what to say, so we'll just see what comes out of my mouth when the time comes and what feels right. I just hope I'm doing the right thing and that I'm not pushing him away from me in a bad way...

Thanks again for everything, you guys.
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 12:23 PM

Quote:
It's just hard, because we communicate just fine regarding business issues, but as soon as it turns to anything personal, H just shuts down completely... I am the same person, whether it's business or personal, and I don't feel like I "shift gears" and talk/act differently whether it's business or personal, .... I know that is a big one for H for me to work on. He needs to work on it, too. Besides those main issues, I honestly am still doing some soul searching to learn what else I am supposed to be learning from all of this. It's not that I feel like I'm perfect; I know I'm far from that. I just am having some difficulties with seeing all that I am to be learning right now. AND I'm eager to just get on with this, so that's making it even more frustrating. ..


Hey strong girl

Just 3 comments

1. I guess it's no coincidence that business is going well and relationship is in the toilet given those communictaion issues.

2. Has H always had a different communication style when it came to Rs?

3. The answers (or perhaps the questions) will come to you when you are ready to understand them. Be patient and loving with yourself.

You know I've been thinking a lot about the things ImLin has been saying about you know what to do, so why don't you just do it?

I was trying to fit that analogy to my life, because I've been the same in so many things - like I know that if I ramped up my training I'd have the body of Elle McPherson (and I WANT that body, I think everything in my life would be perfect if I had that body), or if I networked more I'd have better business connections and my career would be better, or if I spent just 1/2 - 1 hour a day on housework, my home would be immaculate and I'd be really happy with that - but I don't. I sleep for an extra half hour and go for a walk rather than working out, or I turn down invitations to work things because I can't be bothered (and I don't look like Elle McPherson, so I don't feel like there's much to endear me to the waiting network) and I blob in front of the TV when I get home, instead of cleaning the shower screen!!! You know?

So I thought about what my ever-patient therapist would say about it and I know she'd say it was because I subconsiously think I don't deserve to look like Elle, have a great career or a clean house. She's say that there is a little girl inside of me that thinks all of that is too much hard work for a woman who is unlikely to ever amount to much anyway. She'd say it's time I thought about it with a grown-up rational brain and make decisions for myself based on doing things that I conciously want to empower myself with, rather than letting that little girl, who just reacts because she doesn't know any better, sabotage my life by encouraging me to take the 'easy' way out of everything.

I don't know what I think, but I'm going to keep thinking about it. Thanks Lin for raising this.

V

Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 02:45 PM

V...

Well, like you I am not much on house cleaning and never have been but I do much better when I feel better....I have never had the body of Elle McPherson and not so sure that is what I want but I would like to be more fit and to that end I have been really working on that for the past several years...due to work accidents I have had a few set backs but I have now joined Jazzersize and it is auto deducted from my account....since I am a real bargain person there is no way I am going to let that money stream out without me getting my money's worth from it!!!...so to that end I am off of my but and have recently discovered (painfully so) that I do have inner-thighs!!!!...When I feel good my friendships are good...when I feel good my socializing is really good...

What I think is instead of an inner-child sabotaging my efforts for me it is usually DEPRESSION....I think that is why PMA is so very important...it is more motivating to me personally when I feel good because then I can honestly evaluate the situation...my mother could always tell when I was feeling down because my house would reflect it...I was doing good...then H came home and that stress led me down the path of not feeling so good about me and worrying more about him....now my house is a mess and I am more depressed and H is being butt-head...I hope that by pushing myself to Jazzersize I will begin to pull myself up...there are great financial stresses for me....H claim/has health issues....I also see him slipping into his sick depression again and have a plan to put a stop to it...this time I am much stronger and will not be taken down with the ship...

V and everyone else...we do have the power in us...if we look honestly...

And Tam...I will point out what was a control tactic you used last night...you probably didn't see it or you might have even convinced yourself that it was the "right" thing to do...when you called H to give him directions that was a round about way of finding out...ASKING....yet AGAIN if he was going to the party...now can you see how you like to control things???...Then you added in your posting how you miss him....you miss the socializing away from business with him....this is where you are creating in yourself a "NEED" for him....I want you to think about what you "miss"...because you may find out it is NOT WHAT YOU HAVE EVEN IF HE SPENDS TIME WITH YOU!!!...and then you keep bringing up his racing, how he hasn't called, how his mom hasn't called...I am going to predict that before the day is done you will call one of them or create a "need" to call H about business...this is how you control...you may not always be an agressive controler...but passively you can control and you DO...in business this can be a good thing...in a R/M it usually spells disaster...no one wants to feel like the minute another states their idea/feeling/plan that you no longer have a voice...oh sure, you let him talk...and you may not even get forceful...but you can question and question....reword and reword...until he just figures in his mind "Ok, you win, I agree."....and then you are happy and he is miserable...now in business with others this works really good for advancing the business...I know...I could do great things in business while using that same stratedgy at home ended me up with a very broken marriage and me oblivious to the whole mess until H had an OW and walked out the door in the middle of the night...not even wanting to face his children with his decision...not wanting to face anyone because "I (that's me) would be right" no one had seen anything but a happy couple, a doting wife, a loving husband, and three really well adjusted happy kids!!!...He must be crazy!!!...well in many ways he was/is...but I contributed in part to driving him there...and it is upto me to make changes that will improve me...thus improving the R/M and hopefully this will bring him back to sanity!!!

None of us are perfect....but Tam...I have never seen anyone who continues to do what doesn't work...oh sure, you get the hug, you hear what want him to say (sometimes)...but ALL of this is TEMPORARY and will not bring to being the happy person you want to be...that will not happen until you STOP the control issues, STOP the neediness, take possession of yourself, ACCEPT and ACKNOWLEDGE your part in all of this...it might not be anymore then what you have stated above....it could be as simple as that...so instead of continuing to "learn" more about what you need to do....just start focusing on what you KNOW you need to do and maybe that is it...or maybe you find out the rest later when you can handle it...when you are READY to work on them!!!

Take care and get packing....Lin
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 07:01 PM

double post
Posted By: HeartScared

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Good luck, and btw, my sister (the one who die NOT handle the divorce well) has not admitted to me or our other sisters, insight into her role in the demise of her first marriage. Maybe she has some and they make her ashamed, she did gain a lot of weight. But my point is, b/c she was so afraid to really do the soul searching needed to see her role in the divorce, she continues the same behaviors. It's different now b/c her 2nd H is so sick. (her H#2 has a Brain tumor--which confirms to my sister how the universe is against her, but I digress)) But the point remains, many of the same behaviors she exhibited in her first M, she is repeating now. So I guess what I'm saying is if you really don't see how you contributed to at least SOME of what's going on, then your sitch is probably hopeless. I mean, if you were perfect, there is nothing you can do or change...Hey, the reality is the only thing you DO have control over, is you. It helps if you see those things b/c you can work on them, and you'll be a better woman no matter what happens.
good luck,
j-


This is very very very true. I have spent the last two days digesting all the things I have read in books, posts and online resources. I am thinking about the diferences between men and women, and I have thought A LOT about my contribution to my marriage. I am being honest with myself. The two fights I had this week with my husband are my fault. I kept pushing and questioning him until he said some mean things. He knows that if says something really mean I will back off, He is right I did.

When my husband told me months ago he was tired of me and needed a break, I should have left him alone right then, but no, I gave him a few days then bothered him again, gave a few days irritated him some more, instead of just giving him his space and waiting for him to come to me.

I let the little paranoid voice inside of me tell me what to think instead of listening to the divine inner voice. The paranoid voice kept telling the divine inner voice to shut up. Now I am finally finding the strength the shut up and hopefully kill off that paranoid voice.

I finally understand that when you really really love someone you do not try to change them. My husband has always been a man who likes to spend time with fellow male friends. Sometimes they get carried away. It never bothered me when we were close and all into eachother. It gave me the space I needed and when we were together again it was magical. Now that we are not as close it bothers me and causes unneeded stress even though it is what he has always done. I need to let him be himself. He has given up a lot over the years, but I have been to selfish and have had pitty parties for myself that I never realized the sacrifices he made.

That little girl that Walkingback mentioned is the little girl who needs to grow up within me as well. I need to stop acting immature and grow up. This whole time my H has been telling me he needs space. I listened for a second then went right back and did what I always do. He knew I would do it too. I did not give his feelings the respect they deserved. He has told me for years sometimes I need to just be left alone. Now I think he just got fed up and with all the other stress in his life and past feeling resurfacing he is tired of me. I hope that now that I have been awakened that its not too late.
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 11:08 PM

HS, lin ,WB , 2940

It does me so much good to read what you guys post that I seem to comeback to earth and don't think I m going crazy. Today has been tough. If you have a chance please read my post YOYO husband. I could use some advice. Sorry about hijacking here.

2940 Today I fell back just like you have. I called my H and told him what I had heard that his ow was telling people and her family that it was alright to date my H because he had filed divorce papers and that I wouldn't sign because of investment reasons and that I was a horrible B*$#h. I had a quite a long phone conversation with him.

Ok my point is we all fall back. It is so hard to detach all the time. I like you just want a little bit of hope and when I hear a kind word I think I have made progress but sometimes it is just a word nothing else. I know he just says them.. What have you guys said Don't believe anything they say. They are just saying it.

I see how important that it is for you to move your office. It is that detachment from seeing him everyday. When you see him you are always looking for just a tiny bit of hope from a hug , conversation,a look, a compliment. I know I do the same thing and you know deep down I know that it won't be there and if it is he means it different than what I want to believe. You and I also have to realize it and move ahead. It just is extremely hard easier said than done. I wish we could just split for a while and still have the business sucess that we have but in real life that doesn't happen.

I would just tell him that you need the space to clear your mind and get things thought out in your mind and you need the space to get your work done for a while. I bet he needs it too. Just like my H just said he wishes he could just take a job and leave and get away from it all.

It is so much easier to tell you then to follow thru myself. Knowing it is what we all need to do.

Good Luck Monday and keep your head up and stay as positive and confident as you can. Later you can let it out. I will be thinking about you and hoping things will go well. Alitte prayer will help too.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 11:29 PM


Ladies, (and Gentlemen?)

Gosh this is a good thread in so many ways. Like many of you, the house/yard work overwhelm me and I can only hire help rarely b/c H is delusional about what it would take to get the yard looking decent, or at least not the eyesore of the neighborhood. Some weird bug killed all 8 birch trees (birch beetle, to be exact and it was gross and freaked me out about eating the siding of the house, etc etc) and there is so much ivy and a hill, so I have A LOT of wood and yard crap to deal with and really these are small everyday life events. Our cars break down, the lamp breaks, etc. IF we can't cope with these things, we really are depressed. And some times I know I am. Of course I was NEVER a good housecleaner...

But here is the only point I have time to make right now. Last pregnancy I had, I got sick towards the end, and herniated a disk, so I was in a lot of pain, plus fat, plus moving from Texas to Alaska, which also meant leaving my job to be a sahm for the first time ever, etc.

One night in the 8th month or so, I was feeling very alone, as s3 was sleeping and H was on call working. I lay in bed looking out at the moon, which was full. I suddenly realized that somewhere out there others were also looking at the night sky, and surely another woman was seeing the moon. Surely some of those women were pregnant. And sad, or angry, or afraid. But unlike me, many of the women looking at that moon that night, were not lying in beds with mattressess, or debating whether to have an epidural, nor were they worried about a coming election. Some of those women were looking for shelter, even the primitive kind. Many were probably hungry. Some of them were hiding from dangerous people. Wondering if their H's would ever return, and if so, whether they'd still be healthy or even alive...

When you TRULY see yourself from the eyes of the rest of the world, it can help in a profound way. Don't think of it as a cliche, because that devalues it, and since it is a truth, think about it. Right now there are women who cannot vote in their country, or cannot drive a car even if the family owned one, women who cannot leave their homes without a male chaperone, women who have hidden from warring factions in their country, and literally having siblings who were hacked to death, (see Rwonda, Darfur, etc). I am healthy and free and despite some financial pressures I feel with my d18's college + s21's last year (should have planned better on the timing of the kids, but who the hell plans that well??) my financial concerns are, in the grand scheme of things, a joke. There is food in my refrigerator and there will be food next week as well. I put myself through college and law school as did all my 8 siblings. Not bragging, just saying it is achievable. If I had to, I'd get a degree online, no matter how long it took. When I was in the Army JAG Corps (the lawyer's branch and yes, I joined b/c H owed them service for his medical school) I served during the first Gulf War. I met women amputees, including some who had their hands cut off due to something a male relative (H's / father/brother) had done "wrong"....it was an experience that was pivotal for me.

SO, with all these factors in mind, I realize I am better off in nearly ALL ways, than 99% of the women on this planet...food, shelter, health, no one shooting at my family. It makes the pain of a troubled marriage pale in comparison to the "real world's problems."

The night of the "Full moon while pregnant" really was an epiphany for me. Cliche or not, remember that when you wonder how to say something to your confused and smothered H, or you parse his responses endlessly, and try to just back off and relax. Take a deep breath and be satisfied, for the moment. You DO have a life and you can and will be happy again, if you choose to be. It can happen regardless of your H's choices...
j-
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/15/07 11:42 PM

j-

I totally agree with what you are saying...there is always someone who has it far worse then we do...my moment really came when H had left and I was going to work in school transportation...I was working with special needs children...I saw their parents on a daily basis...it made me have compassion for them and also made me realize how fortunate I am that I have two adult daughters who willingly help support the family and one young son who is healthy and able to care for himself in so many ways...I don't have to change his diapers, worry if he will abused and not be able to tell me, worry that his medication changes might cause more health problems...and worry what will happen to him when I can no longer care for him...you see these are things that the parents I see deal with daily!!!...and they come out with a pleasant greeting, smiling, and ready to face another day of the same...their life is not easy but they make the best of what they have...they love their children the best they can...they accept the littlest responses from their children...they act like nothing is wrong!!!...I came to learn so much from them...yes, I still feel sorry for myself...but not for long...I do realize how fortunate I am and I am so greatful for the things I DO HAVE!

I think like you and your "full moon while pregnant" moment....I have had this and one other that ironically was during my last pregnancy...when we weren't so sure that our son was going to be born healthy, normal, or even alive!...Life can be a hard lesson...the sooner we "get it" the better off we will be!
Posted By: PennyMB

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 12:04 AM

You guys are remarkable with your insight on life. I so much appreciate what yo guys write. A BIG THANK YOU...Like you said there is always some one else who has it harder than us. I am very lucky when I think about it I have a loving family my own and my H family. My S'S are the anchor in my world and I am so apprecitative of them. I do miss not having siblings being an only child is hard and I believe it is harder as you get older because I could use a brother or sister either one sometimes to talk to. Even though I have great friends and I have this thread to read.

You guys just make one feel good even though I know how tough each of your lives are. You have such up attitudes.

You make one feel good about themselves. Thanks again.
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 05:41 AM

Thanks, everyone. Yes, all of those stories certainly help to give us perspective on our own lives, don't they? Very humbling indeed. Thank you for sharing so openly.

Well, just a few more hours until the move... I'm scared and nervous. Will be glad to get it over with.

H nor his Mom called me about the races today. I ended up just deciding to go by myself. I just felt like I wanted to support him, regardless of whether it was the right thing to do or not. I guess I wanted to show him that I'm still there for him to support his goals and dreams, even though things are tough right now. It was a bit symbolic for me, I suppose. I knew I wouldn't be able to just go to the office and work; I was just too distracted thinking about it. So I decided to stop fighting it and just go and see what happened. Then I panicked, thinking that he might have invited OW to go and that that is why he didn't say anything to me about going... So then I freaked out and knew I had to go and see, because if he was going to start bringing her into his "outside" life like that, it would crush me.

So, I cruised the parking lot before going in just to make sure that I didn't see OW's car there. That's all I would've needed... I didn't so I went in. I called H's mom when I got there, and she didn't end up going because she's sick. So I was there all by myself. I sat up in the stands where we normally do.

H came up during the intermission and thanked me for coming and sat with me for a while and talked. He asked me how last night was, and we talked about some business stuff, too. Then he had to go back to race again, so he asked me if I was going to the office when the races were over, and I said yes, and he said he'd see me there. He gave me a hug (not provoked by me) and thanked me again for coming. I told him that I wanted to be there.

He won the main event, so I stayed until he got his trophy. I said hi to him and his dad when it was over, and then his dad invited me out to dinner with them. So we went and ate together, the three of us. It was nice. He hugged me again in the parking lot before I left and said he'd see me at the office.

Well, he never showed up at the office, so of course I was sad. It was my last night up at the office, at least for now, so that was hard, too. I ended up leaving and cruising by OW's house (bad) since it was my last night up there to see if H's car was there. I didn't see it, which was probably for the best for my mental state...

Then I drove home, worried and hoping that he hadn't stopped by our home and gotten more stuff, as he has to bring his race car back to close to our house, so I knew he was in the area. I settled down once I realized that he had not taken anything else. Then I looked on the guest bed where I am sleeping right now, and he left me a note! It said something like "thank you for coming to the track today. Sweet dreams, and I am working on getting back to us. H" Of course I break down in tears... Then I feel guilty about moving the office, yet hopeful that maybe this will be what is needed to push him over the edge if he is indeed planning on coming home. I did NOT ask him to leave me a note, ask him to stop by the house, anything like that, so it was so nice that he left the note all on his own, and for him to say in the note that he was still planning on working on our M meant to much to me, as for once this was not in response to my questioning him or badgering him mercilessly. He did this on his own and chose his own words to say to me. It really meant a lot. I know it seems small, but it meant the world to me.

So since it's late I just wrote him a short e-mail and said "thank you for the nice note. Great job at the races today. Hope to see you soon..." and left it at that...

Granted, he left me a note on New Year's Eve and asked me to just be patient, and then he didn't come home for a month and a week after that, so I have no idea what to think of this note, and he could even change his mind completely. I know this. But, again, to have him 1.) leave me a note at all and 2.) say what he did, really meant a lot to me. I hope he wouldn't give me false hope like that if it's not what he's feeling right now...

Well, I'm going to do my best to try and get some sort of rest. I didn't end up packing up any boxes tonight. I was just too upset. So I have to go in to the office early tomorrow morning and get everything ready to go, so I must try and get some rest.

I know you're going to hit me over the head with a few 2X4's for going to the races today, but I really feel like it turned out okay. I just hope moving my office tomorrow isn't going to backfire after some progress today with things...

Wish me luck on what I know is going to be a really tough day tomorrow... Thank you again for all of your support and encouragement.
Posted By: Walking

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 06:38 AM

Girlfriend????? What?????

Here's a hint - even if he catches you at it and talks to you while you are doing it - it's STILL STALKING .....

I didn't have a Stalking Period, so I can only imagine the compulsion that is driving you here, but the rule with phases of un DBlike behaviour is that they have a shelf life. This one is up.

Get packing.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 08:08 AM

2940,
I don't get your sitch. Does he want out or not? Is he stringing you along for the business's sake and just in case he's made a mistake, ALL while "doing" the OW? Is that what this is? Tell me, b/c I am not getting it, or your compulsion to do the opposite of what you KNOW you need to do.SOMEONE please explain the sitch to me?
MLC?? WAS?? Limbo Man??
thanks,
j-
Posted By: 2940831

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 05:25 PM

25, I don't get my situation either. Let me know if you figure it out...

Well, I'm halfway through my move. The movers are at the house now dropping everything off...

Gotta run and take this computer down and put in the new one, but just wanted to tell you that I'm doing it, and I feel like I'm going to throw up...

H was at the office this morning. I got there around 6:30, and his car was there, so I drove around, as I decided I didn't want to see him this morning before the move. Well, I drove around until 7:45, and he was still there! So I finally had to go in, as I hadn't even packed yet, and the movers were going to be there as early as 8 am! Well, as soon as I drove up, I thought to myself, "I wonder if H is sleeping in there." Well, sure enough, he was. So I woke him up, and he got up and went downstairs. So I'm frantically trying to pack boxes like a crazy woman as fast as I can, and he's still there... still there... still there... I kept praying for him to leave! But, he didn't. So the movers showed up, and he was still there, so I went down the answer the door when they rung the doorbell. And I went in to his office and said something like "just so you know, I'm moving my office back home." He said okay. And then I had to tend to the movers. So I went back into his office a few minutes later and told him quickly that I would talk to him more about this later. He said okay.

So, the movers started, and he did leave eventually. Then, my phone rang a bit later, and it was him. I decided not to answer it. I listened to the voicemail message when I was in the car with the movers following me home, and he was really, really gruff in the message... He said something about that the internet had quit and that he didn't know if I was taking my computer but if I could leave whatever parts he would need to hook back up to the internet, and then he got off the phone very harshly... Uh-oh...

So, now I have all of these scary thoughts going through my mind, like what if he talked to her last night and then went to our office. I was at the office until a little after 9 o'clock, and he obviously wasn't there yet... Maybe he just came to the office early this morning and decided he was tired... I don't know. Just to have him write that note to me last night and then be at the office this morning sleeping so late (NOT like him AT ALL...) He's always up early and out the door... So now I'm completely freaking out that he was maybe going to come home and I messed everything up... So I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to say to him now... STRESS!!!!! I want to still sound empowered, but I don't want him to think I've given up on us... I'm worried that I made a mistake...

Gotta run for now!
Posted By: imLIN

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 05:58 PM

You know that you are not ready for him to come home so why worry about his intentions...I would just state like I said before that for now working from home is best for you...the future remains to be seen...

If everything is there to take care of the internet just call and tell him what he needs...if not, make sure and get it back to him...

Relax!!!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: NEW THREAD FOR 2940 --- HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - 04/16/07 07:29 PM

Dear 2940,

You are scared you made a mistake moving your office? Are you kidding? I mean, you moved your office to your home b/c YOUR H SAID HE WANTS SOME SPACE, and YOU NEED to have some space of your own. It's just not healthy to be around him so much, given the givens. STOP worrying that this office move, this ONE action of self protection on your part, means you've ruined the M. It's the first and only thing you've done other than smothering/pursuing him, (which we all know has NOT worked at all). For God's sake, think this out. Back off of him. Who knows why he was "gruff" b/c the computer failed, or what ever....STOP the over analyzing. You need to get back into your work, remember that? And you have to GAL and you simply cannot do that when your H is 10 feet away from you. What is there to miss, if you are always around?
Please, please stop losing it. Get a grip, take a breath and focus on what you CAN do right now. Finish the move, do some work, earn some money. Call a friend, rent a comedy, and do not bring up R with your H. That is so important I'll repeat it for emphasis: NO MORE R TALK...you are sooooo doing the opposite of what would attract a man back to you. Maybe at some level you don't want him to come back? I'm just asking, b/c you keep making the same mistake over and over, and I wonder if it's really weakness/fear OR if maybe you really do want him out of your life.

Just curious, no offense.
j-
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