Divorcebusting.com
MY FIRST THREAD: Speeding Cars
Quote:


2 Corinthians 8:10 (Msg):
So here's what I think: The best thing you can do right now is to finish what you started last year and not let those good intentions grow stale. Your heart's been in the right place all along. You've got what it takes to finish it up, so go to it. Once the commitment is clear, you do what you can, not what you can't. The heart regulates the hands.

Ya'll. God is flat-out amazing when he gets your attention.




And then my thread locked. Dang, just when I was needing you most. THEN I composed a brand new thread post and lost it by accidentally closing the browser. ACK! I have to go to work in a few minutes so I'll try to post more there (sometimes I'm not filtered out from the internet) but wanted to start a thread. The new thread title is from the lyrics in a Sarah McLachlan song that OW burned for H on a CD of mixed Sarah M songs. I used to LOVE her music and now it's just a hot knife in my soul most times she appears on my iPod shuffle. And of course she appeared yesterday, with this very song. It's beautiful and sad, made sadder in context and how much I miss my H, even with him in the house.

Song for a Winter's Night
The lamp is burning low upon my table top
the snow is softly falling
The air is still within the silence of my room
I hear your voice softly calling

If I could only have you near
to breathe a sigh or two
I would be happy just to hold the hands I love
on this winter's night with you

The smoke is rising in the shadows overhead
my glass is almost empty
I read again between the lines upon the page
the words of love you sent me

If I could know within my heart that you were lonely too
I would be happy just to hold the hands I love
upon this winter's night with you

The fire is dying now, my lamp is growing dim
the shades of night are lifting
The morning light steals across my windowpane
where webs of snow are drifting

If I could only have you near
to breathe a sigh or two
I would be happy just to hold the hands I love
and to be once again with with you

To be once again with you



My gosh, what a roller coaster of emotions I ride (like many of us here, I realize).

I remember thinking with relief when I found my H, and we got marrried, I was so abundantly thankful that I wouldn't have to have those horrible broken-hearted feelings anymore (as with previous Rs) b/c we had found each other and committed for life and there was finally someone who loved me enough (and vice-versa) to feel safe and loved forever. I got all teary typing that thought, b/c I had forgotten about it until now. It was such a happy thought at the time, and such an 'emotional exhale', if you KWIM.

I now feel like I've been 'holding my breath' emotionally, by comparison. I so want to exhale, ya'll.

Since the "talk" of oh, 4-ish days ago, H has stopped leaving me happy face notes to find in the morning, with a heart drawn at the end. He has stopped initiating kisses hello/goodbye by about 50%. When I work night shifts, he usually will say "call me later" and he has quit and said "see you in the morning" last night. I thought, well, okay. in the interest of space I guess I won't call him tonight from work. Well, by gum, at midnight the phone on the unit rings and it's H. I must have sounded like a startled stuttering toddler for the first minute, b/c I was so surprised. I am constantly amazed by stuff I know from reading, but when it actually applies in real life to my circumstances, I'm dumbfounded (back off, he'll move toward you. however tiny)

I told him this morning that It was nice of him to call me at work. He said previously that I had not been acknowledging/giving him credit for what he DID do, only what he DIDN'T. And not about what he was doing for the kids, around the house, or that kind of stuff (which is what I'd been doing previously, b/c it is the easiest to see/quantify I guess), but he really wanted to be acknowleged for what he was doing/attempting for the RELATIONSHIP. and I dropped the ball there, only seeing the R glass half-empty and b*tching about what wasn't there.

Ya'll. If I can't be a good example, let me be your horrible warning.

It feels so cold and prickly here. Very civil and 'nice' with undercurrents of hopelessness (so similar to the feelings when the A was ongoing. It is NOT, but our dynamic feels the same like this elephant in the room we cannot see each other through). Thank God for the ability to vent and be scared here with ya'll, instead of taking my crazy a$$ On Tour here locally.

Can't sleep. Work night shift again tonight (3rd and final, thank God) which, as you know, disconnects me from everyone I love. Sleep all day, gone all night. Sux.

H and I drove the kids to school together, didn't say much on the way home, altho all was 'pleasant' and he cheerfully tells me 'good night' while I get ready for sleep. and no kiss. again. He told me in the R talk that he feels like he's made all the changes in how he relates to me since January, and that I have not. That I'm waiting for H to do all the work and when it feels "safe", I'll jump in. That I've been the one wanting to leave since he ended the A and he's had to talk me down to stay. That I'm smothering him, and trying to control the outcome/changes, which makes him back off and retreat. Which makes me move more toward him b/c, hey, where's he going? i need to go see what he's doing, where his head is, check his browser history/email/iTunes/whatever Bad cycle. All true. And now he's worn out.

I will tell you that I've not checked sh!t on him since the youtube stuff and this last talk. What good is it doing? I'm certainly not reassured, forGodssake. And it is going to have to be God who steps in here not Freaky Wife, party of one.

So my conundrum (Sp?) is this: the elusive middle ground.
For example: If I kiss him goodnight instead of waiting for him to do it, am I
'in his space' too much, or am I not waiting for him to do something and then reacting, and doing it myself? Do you see my sticky wicket?

After we both spoke of wanting a new M, not the old one, nothing like we had, and giving it 2 months before re-evaluating.... I feel impotent as far as change. We are just tiptoeing around each other and barely seeing each other (secondary to work right now, but I doubt it would be much different if I hadn't worked this week).

Do I sound like a complete basket case, or am I making sense on some planet? Anyone?





Quote:

He told me in the R talk that he feels like he's made all the changes in how he relates to me since January, and that I have not. That I'm waiting for H to do all the work and when it feels "safe", I'll jump in. That I've been the one wanting to leave since he ended the A and he's had to talk me down to stay. That I'm smothering him, and trying to control the outcome/changes, which makes him back off and retreat. Which makes me move more toward him b/c, hey, where's he going? i need to go see what he's doing, where his head is, check his browser history/email/iTunes/whatever Bad cycle. All true. And now he's worn out.



How much communication between you regarding what you both want changed? Have you come up with an action plan? Something that will allow you to mark your progress? I think this is really the only way to go - even for yourself. You need to know you are trying, and to do so you need to be able to measure your results. You can't change what you don't know, and you can't grow what you don't measure. It doesn't sound very romantic, but I think this is something that Michele emphasizes in her books.

Quote:

I will tell you that I've not checked sh!t on him since the youtube stuff and this last talk. What good is it doing? I'm certainly not reassured, forGodssake. And it is going to have to be God who steps in here not Freaky Wife, party of one.



You know, I have really been looking at the concept of redirection through this sitch. I think it's always better to redirect your energy and focus to a beneficial place rather than to try and stop focusing on something that's detrimental. If you need to be reassured that something bad is not happening, because you are allowing yourself to conjure up images of these things, then you are not focusing on positive change that you can bring about. Come up with a way that you can be comfortable directing yourself internally. I think that if you always look for an obstacle that's external to you to blame for not doing what you agreed to it's only an excuse. Don't look for excuses, look for opportunities.

Quote:

So my conundrum (Sp?) is this: the elusive middle ground.
For example: If I kiss him goodnight instead of waiting for him to do it, am I
'in his space' too much, or am I not waiting for him to do something and then reacting, and doing it myself? Do you see my sticky wicket?



Yes, I can really relate to this. No easy answer, especially because the right thing is relative to his moods and feelings. My perspective on this is: do what you want to do. If you want to give him a kiss, do it. Don't debate the consequences of your actions too much. I think you should express yourself, as someone who has a lot to give, and not use your actions to convey expectations to him.

Quote:

After we both spoke of wanting a new M, not the old one, nothing like we had, and giving it 2 months before re-evaluating.... I feel impotent as far as change. We are just tiptoeing around each other and barely seeing each other (secondary to work right now, but I doubt it would be much different if I hadn't worked this week).



Planning. Plan dates, create routines where none existed before. Communicate your desire to spend time together. When you say tiptoeing, I think fear. What are you afraid of?
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/16/06 06:12 PM
Believing, I started writing you last night, then this morning, and now i have my work done and come here to write and i find that Muddle has done a better job of it!

I was going to say pretty much the same; that now its time to maybe have a talk with your H and VALIDATE his feelings, tell him you see the truth in it.

Like Muddle said, come up with some plans/goals for yourself...maybe explain to him your feelings and insecurity, but that you realize its time to put that behind you and grow from there.

As she said, why not build new memories and habits by date nights and special activities which might be a bit stiff at first but will gradually relax into fun.

Act as if.

there is a website that i've posted before that i find extremely beneficial: rejoice ministries
I get a dailiy email from them and so many times its just right on and what i desperately need to hear.

I was going to write you that maybe its time to let go your fears and wounds and give them to God to heal. Only God can make you AND your marriage whole again, so Let Him Do His Work. I would suggest Lots of Prayers and learning to submit it to God.

I can relate to your situation so much, not your marriage, as my H is still wandering, but your own emotional needs and background as i read on your blog. i have the same. I'd like to correspond with you more, but maybe off here would be best...would you like to email?
jacqm
Ya'll, I have laid here with my eyes shut trying to will my brain to shut off so I could sleep. But alas. I have to wake up shortly for work. ugh. this night will be extra hard from 3-5 a.m.

Anyway, my head is pounding a bit and I'm going to reply better later on (hopefully from work, if it's a calm night). Just so grateful for you guys stopping on my curb when you're in the midst of your lives as well. Can't thank you enough.

Muddle, when I am less sleep deprived, I'm going to print out your post on my thread about specific plans, and bring it to MC tomorrow to start an action plan/routines for the next 2 months. The paradox again exists that I'm being a control freak if I need a plan? Is that pushing? but I agree we can't just sit and stare at each other (or avoid each other) and hope that some miracle will occur by Oct 4th with no real interaction.

Your insights on my motivations in the way I communicate to my H (and why) continue to astound me, and I will really want to sit with that and chew on it personally and figure out what I need to do to both let GO and still be in the picture, and have the right thoughts/self-talk behind each interaction. Gosh, you're just so helpful Muddle. I appreciate you.

Jac, a big hug to you as well for your insight and encouragement. (and you're reading my blog, that gives me some selfish comfort! I've gotten some anon. comments on it so I'm hoping it's reaching somebody somewhere). It's easier for me to post than email at this juncture, but clog my thread, girl. I'm all ears! (eyes?)

H called just now from pizza place with kids, and said they'll be bringing me home some for dinner before work. The last time he did something similar, I defaulted to saying "You don't have to, don't worry about me" and he later told me that kind of comment drives him insane and makes him not want to do anything for me. SO. Today when he told me about the pizza, I said "Thank you for thinking of me, I appreciate it" and his tone was a little less arms-length after that. Just a little. But I'm noticing the little things I can do, and I'm happy for that one God McNugget today.

I tell you what guys, that whole validating thing feels so forced, or fake-sounding. I am trying, I just wish I had a better stash of tools in the relationship toolbox.

More later, if I'm able, or at least by tomorrow. Virtual hugs to my posting (and lurking) friends, you make my days bearable, you really do.
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/16/06 08:18 PM
Believing--
quote:
<<that whole validating thing feels so forced, or fake-sounding. I am trying, I just wish I had a better stash of tools in the relationship toolbox.>>

remember back when your kids were small and they were trying to help? remember how you had to praise every little thing they did to reinforce positive behavior, rather than giving [bad] attention to their bad behavior?

isn't this almost the same thing? would you like your H to constantly focus on the things you do wrong? can you imagine how you would feel if he started thanking you for all the littles things you did nice? Remember what they say, its the little things that count. and when we get fed up, its often a ton of little things that drive us nuts...that alone are so petty but when added together make one heck of a big wall.
we can praise the little things, or we can ignore them. praise is so much better, and makes us want to do even more.

just some random thoughts to redirect your feelings.
good luck at work!

jacqm
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/16/06 08:28 PM
meant to say, think of it not as validating, but as acknowledging.
acknowledging someone's positive acts is good. its what we're supposed to do.
God says so.
whatsoever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. Phil 4:8
What we fill our minds with will determine how we see things...including people.
as has been said here before, what we focus on, expands.
jacqm
Quote:

The paradox again exists that I'm being a control freak if I need a plan? Is that pushing? but I agree we can't just sit and stare at each other (or avoid each other) and hope that some miracle will occur by Oct 4th with no real interaction.



GH has often talked about taking risks, and I think this is one of those situations where you have to choose what you are willing to risk. If you DON'T do anything, you don't risk being a control freak, but you do risk feeling like you failed in your attempts to save you M because you didn't act. However, if you DO act, you risk being seen as a control freak. My vote is for the action. Doing something, anything, is at least doing something. You know, if for no one but yourself, that you acted to move closer to your goals. Once you have made that decision and moved towards your goals, you will realize that your choice to act has opened up a new range of opportunities that are not available to you now, and I would guess will not be if continue to prevent yourself from acting on your convictions. Be a part of your own miracle, that's my vote. Are you being pushy? Maybe, but this is something you want, so you should be. As far as I'm concerned, if your H sees this as something negative, it's because he WANTS to. You know what your intentions are, and he should too, so to see your actions/traits in a negative light he has to be motivated to do so for some reason. Maybe that's something that should come out in MC.

Quote:

The last time he did something similar, I defaulted to saying "You don't have to, don't worry about me" and he later told me that kind of comment drives him insane and makes him not want to do anything for me. SO. Today when he told me about the pizza, I said "Thank you for thinking of me, I appreciate it" and his tone was a little less arms-length after that. Just a little. But I'm noticing the little things I can do, and I'm happy for that one God McNugget today.



Great job - that sounds really promising. I think the cumulative effect of these changes will have a significant impact on H's opinion of you.

Quote:

I tell you what guys, that whole validating thing feels so forced, or fake-sounding. I am trying, I just wish I had a better stash of tools in the relationship toolbox.



I couldn't agree with you more. In my sitch, nothing I do is right, and it makes it almost impossible to hone my tools. I wish I could, and maybe someday soon I will have the opportunity to do so with my W, but for now I'm just doing what I can to cope with the situation as it is and grow as a person at the same time. Just remember that it's the struggle that makes us stronger, not achieving the goal.
Posted By: cat03 Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/17/06 02:07 PM
Hey girl, just wanted to let know I head your voice in my head Tues. when you posted once "Ya'll dont' snoop?" I almost turned around, but didnt, found out heavy evidence agaisnt my H and sent us in a hand basket to heck. Still rebouning, trying to at least, I see my C tomorrow.

You are so lucky your H at least TRIES to make some attempts at doing stuff for you, my H still has nothing to give me, and it hurts, but as my friend told me last night, I'll have God to fullfill those needs, the need of affection I crave so much from my H. Having WW3 like yesterday sent us back to -square 1.
sh!t, cat. I'm running to your thread tonight. will post before bed, i promise.
{{{{{{cat}}}}}}
Quote:

GH has often talked about taking risks, and I think...




OMG! I'm being quoted now as if I'm some kind of expert, lol. No I get to quote OT and MY experts, you don't get to quote me, lol.

GH

P.S. BI, I think you are doing fine. Muddle has it right on as far as I am concerned. You need to be true to yourself as much as you can while recognizing the things that may not be true to the "new" you as much as you can. My point is that if being controlling is something you don't want to be and you can clearly identify an upcomming action as that, then just don't do it. So, ok, I correct myself, be true to who you want to be, and yes, if you have to risk who you ARE to do that, then by all means do so.
GH, thanks a million for posting to my thread during your limited internet time. I take that as a compliment and I am thankful for all of you here. Do you think I say that enough? Well, I don't care, I'll say it again: I am SO thankful for finding this BB and the wise, compassionate, friendly, good people on it. All of us here could use more affirmation, I'll venture to say, since we're not getting enough from our WAS's, so I'll step up and do it tonight: you guys ROCK. Your spouses have lost their fcuking minds to be so blind to the wonderment that is YOU. I'd marry you all if I could! ha

Anyway, MC on Thursday was so calm. We spoke of the 2 month thing, where we are, why H feels so far away from me, lots of things. All in a respectful, thoughtful manner. our discussion was so good, I thought. Plus, we rode together to and from the appt, and usually we just meet there in separate cars and leave separately too. I made a point to thank him for us riding together, it was nice. I didn't mention the C appt at all until that night, as he was leaving the room to go downstairs and asked him what he thought. He was nonplussed, it seemed. I expected him to be more enthusiastic (well, wrong word: maybe more 'on board') about the positive-ness of the MC session. and i think he said "okay" to describe it. frustration. he's just off in the cocoon, there. <insert fuming little gremlin here, if we had one with smoke out of his ears>

I have been Miss Detached of late. I could win a bloody award. "And the winner for most detached and cheerful in the face of flat marital relations goes to..."

But the Lord has seen fit to give me SO many little God McNuggets this week. At my hospital, the VP of Patient Care told me that a friend of one of my patients this week found her to compliment me on taking "excellent" care of her friend (anaphylaxis from bee sting), and the VP told me she was going to write it up and give it to my Director for my file. Yay! You know, I know I'm a pretty decent nurse, but when people write glowing letters about our care here, they never mention me by name as they do others, so this was a first and really exciting for me. H was proud, but again, not as 'on board' with the enthusiasm as he normally would have been.

Then my blog has been receiving some comments here and there from strangers, which is nice for sure, but I went to the blog of one of my commenters, and her entire post for that day was about my blog! OMGosh, you have no idea! What a fat fat compliment. I was shocked and couldn't stop smiling for an hour, and I think it's because for the first time in a WHILE I really felt validated. And by damn, it felt wonderful. Told H that night, again lukewarm reaction. Hello?! WTF, but okay. Still winning my detached award.

Last night we watched a DVD together (we rented the 1st season of "24" and have been watching one episode at a time), sitting on the same piece of furniture (1 point) and my feet tucked under his thighs (1 point). I didn't try for any other contact, and when it was over, I go upstairs and he goes downstairs. Moi, being my award-winning self the whole time. I sent him an email that said only"Thanks for spending a little time with me tonight" and he replied "Let's do it again." Another point awarded, but trying not to read much into it.

Then yesterday, I asked him if he'd be interested in writing some things for my blog, from the 'unfaithful's point of view, and he will be, so as soon as that's done I'm going to post here and make you guys all go read what he's written, and give him lots of comments. I'll keep you informed, I'm actually pretty excited about that so I hope he can stay in touch with his authentic self thru it. we'll see.

This is life and it's weirdness in a nutshell; leaving a few things out, but am pooped and will check in again later. This was my 3rd day off - woo! - but go back tomorrow for 3 nights in a row. groan.
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/20/06 03:52 AM
Believing:
I'm glad i read your blog; I've copied part of it into my journal:
<<But I know what I believe. I choose to stay here. I choose to love him. I choose to believe God's promises for marriage ... that He desires to mold a marriage to be a reflection of His glory, passion, and love ... that my marriage is not excluded from His blessing list. I refuse to keep God in a box any longer while I handle it in my own strength. >>

I needed to hear this today, as i've spent the past hours on and off in tears. will post in my thread, i don't want to hijack yours but i'm having a hard time trying to hang onto my sanity, my hope, my faith through this.

all i can say to you is detach, detach, detach...
in my head, i know that if you give it to God, He can heal everything. i KNOW this, even if i can't DO it right now.
jacqm
Posted By: JokerMan Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/20/06 04:02 AM
FWIW I am one of your "lurking" friends.
Dang, Jokerman, I'm honored!
I'm one of yours too.
When my H posts his side of the story on my blog, I definitely want you to be one of the people who comments on it (and to call bullsh!t on anything that doesn't appear truthful) - he has nobody to speak to about this from a mentor/friend position, and I don't know how much he's really addressing in himself or just stuffing away for the sake of being 'proper' - you know?
I am really anxious to get his posts up this week, just hoping he won't drag his feet (ooh, I'm a poet. ha)

Jacqm, honey, I'm off to read your thread. Girl, you are doing hard work and have been so positive, let yourself fall down every once in a while. It's okay, just pick yourself back up before you leave the house. I of course can't fall apart in the house, so it's usually in the car for me. This sh!t is hard, girlfriend. We'll hang out together and make it. I don't know what I would have done the last 3 months without this BB - I wish I had found it during the A, I would've made less mistakes I'm sure. I wish our spouses had one like it for their own perspective/support.

Thanks to the both of you - sending hugs to you on this Sunday morning.
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/22/06 02:02 AM
Hi BI
I didn't post to my thread the other night afterall; feel so nekkid there since i found how easy it was for ANYone to access it...no privacy to the rawness we show here. not that this is any better, but wht the hey.
i'll go post now.
take care--
jm
Muddle posted this thought in his thread, and it really spoke to me loudly:
Quote:

I have to admit that I feel a bit strange sometimes talking to her, like I have so much to hold back.




Amen, my brother. I want to be wide open, but there's the tiptoeing you must do b/c of the damned circumstances. I am frustrated.

I've just worked a string of 3 nights in a row, so I'm exhausted and disconnected, but we have MC in the morning and I'll catch ya'll up after that session.
Well, to add a little something to that, my W has mentioned that she thinks I'm being fake and/or two faced - telling her one thing and thinking or telling other people another. Well, what do you expect? It's not helpful to try and tell the truth about what I see to someone who's trying to avoid it at all costs!

It's good to have a place like this forum to release our feelings and thoughts without worrying about being judged or damaging our sitches. My W used to be the one person I told everything to, and she told me everything. I miss it, but at the same time, I think this is a challenge that I need in my life - to find inner strength and confidence about my self without the validation from my W.

Hope you counselling session went well!
MC session had to be reschedled as we had to get D6 from school for possible pinkeye. fun times. Dr appt at 1:30 - big groan (we avoid them since loss of H job/insurance. OMGosh, the price of non-copay Rx's is freaking horrible)

Anyway, I was a bit melancholy today and H was all over me: what's wrong? what do you want to talk about? what do you not want to talk about? what's the matter today? I did my best not to bite his head off, but hello, if I had acted that way with him, he would have accused me of 'smothering' him five ways from sunday. I did point out that contradiction to him.

I'm not happy that we had to put off MC until Monday, and frankly I'm unhappy about the STATE OF MY FREAKING R/M forpetessake. Get a clue.

To give him some credit, he is writing some A/M/R stuff to post on my blog, so he'll be a regular 'contributor' and I look forward to seeing what he has to say/how he puts it, and where he sees our "state of the union" vs. how I do. He's been working on it for a while, so I'll let you know when it goes up, so you can all go see what the devil he has to say. Probably won't be the riot popularity of the JokerMan threads, but he's a good writer, so it should be entertaining and hopefully insightful.

So that's the state of affairs here in BI-ville on Thursday. Beige and Boring. Do not want to continue to live a life where my internet friends are the best thing around. I'm irritated today by that. This R could be so much MORE than we have, but I don't know how we get there from here. sigh.
Posted By: cat03 Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/24/06 05:12 PM
Hey toots, cheer up! I know it could be so much better, but it also could be so much worse. I'm totally amazed your H would agree to post on your blog knowing it mentions him as a cheater, my H would've rather cut his arm w/a rusty.
ANYways, hun, I hate it to put it this way, but you have it so much better than others here (ok, me LoL) He actually is reaching out and asking how you are feeling. I told my H last night I was having anxiety and barely sleeping... and you could hear the crickets chirping. Or maybe he was too ashamed to say anything since we all know what I've been thinking of.

Give your H the benefit of the doubth always, think the best you can think of when you think he is being a clod, I am fighting to do so to, that' s one thing we talked about in MC last time.

So here is a lollypop, now stop pouting and see your glass as half full)))))))
BI - please pick up "What Happy People Know" by Dan Baker. This book changed my life, and I am going to read it many times over.

Basically, your perspective on life and your situation is your own. It's your choice to view it as good, bad, non-existant, omni-present, etc. Or, at the very least, it's up to you to judge the facts and events as you will. It seems you are pessimistic right now. Change this. The best way to do so is to appreciate something whenever you are down. Appreciate the opportunity to be down if you have to. It WILL change your experience, and we all know that if you change so will the R. Try it - work on this discipline for yourself. Oh yeah, pick up that book too!
Posted By: JokerMan Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/24/06 05:33 PM
Please let us know or shoot me an e-mail when he does post. I would be interested to hear or read rather his take.
yeah, i guess i have been whining today. sorry about that. i should stop b*tching, but I'm frustrated and it sucks. and when he asks what's wrong? etc and bombards me in that way, it's not a good thing. he says it like i'm a fat PITA, as in 'what's the f-ing matter NOW?'. It does not come from a place of compassion.

We had a nice little blowout today, each of us sorely disappointed in the other's 'efforts' in our R. Will try to summarize when i'm less spent over it. Jee-sus, i want to quit some days. the pain just goes on and on and fcuking ON.

He is the poster child for detachment and GAL-ing. It's the way he's built; he doesn't 'need' me at all, and right now I need to be needed. just a little bit.

i went outside and cried and cried, feeling lost, left out, hurt, lonely. he sat right inside the window and checked his email. talk about crickets chirping.

i want a man who will hold me when i cry. even when he is the cause of my pain. hell, especially when. he used to hold me when i was sad.

not today.
BI, I don't think he can get to that compassionate place yet. I think he might be in a place where he's wondering what he made the choice for, where the good is in this relationship. I think you both need to focus on the positives that ARE there, because there are plenty, and not on what you'd like to see there, or rather the absence of the fantasy good that you're looking for, and displeased that you're not seeing. Make sense? That's probably a record run-on! You NEED to have fun together - this whole ordeal is so stressful that everything seems like it's under this cloud and you BOTH are looking for a way out of this situation. I think now you both recognize that this situation isn't the M, but it's up to you to start seeing what the M IS (and inject a little of the spin you'd like to see on it) and start acting as if, and moving towards this.

You know, what you said about "I want a man who..."? Well, I have thought a few times about this - when I got married I gave up the right to want someone who is different. I mean, the time for finding the "right" type of person is over, so what's the use in wanting what you can't have (not that your husband can't be what you want -he just isn't there right now)? I once read something very wise - "the secret to happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have." This is really what we control. This focus on appreciation really inspires happiness and joy, and that is the basis of a good relationship.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't want him to hold you - I'm sure he will once things get better - but to dwell on it hurts you, and your hurt hurts him. When he sees your hurt he has a couple of choices: he gets defensive (and part of his defense mechanism might be to shut you out completely - the "I don't care" approach), it might be to try and fix everything, or something else entirely. I think that he's not in a place where he can face his contribution to your pain yet. I don't think he's forgiven himself, and therefore his defense is to defend himself from his guilt, trivializing your pain, and not taking responsibility for any part in creating or helping you through it. Forgive him again, and let go of it yourself. After all, I think a big part of your renewed pain is a cry for action from him. You don't want to be in pain, do you? Manage your emotions, let him manage his, and continue to be patient, working on that which you can control. Be more concerned with YOUR contribution to the M than his. When you can fight about how you both are not satisfied with your own work on the M, you'll be in the right place!
Posted By: cat03 Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/25/06 04:19 AM
Muddled, that was the smartest thing I've heard all day.

BI, I'm also looking for some solace that my H just isnt' ready to give me. The most I could do last week after the "discovery" was to ask him to hold me, and it made me feel so good. Damn it, go ahead ask, just to hold you for a little while, it did wonders to me.

Remember, even before this mess, our Hs weren't exactly dr. Phil when it came to dealing with our feelings, so now it's a double whammy and they are clueless at SOME degree.

Let's look at the few pearls we have among this muck honey, sending you a big hug tonight)))))))))))))))))))
Thanks guys. Muddle, you are so insightful and thoughtful in your replies. I really appreciate your efforts to clarify my thoughts when I am confused.

Gonna get the kids to school; my eyes are almost swollen shut - my tear ducts must have clogged up after all the boohooing I did in the night. ugh.

Will post more soon, just checking in to thank you.
BI,

Speaking from one man's perspective, it's REALLY hard for me to understand that my W may want me to hold her when she's upset, especially if she's upset AT ME. Sometimes I think this is one of the WORST places where women expect a man to read her mind. If my W could just find it within herself to just TELL me what she needs, I would be totally disarmed and not defensive/angry at all, which I almost ALWAYS was before all this happened. Then, in the course of the R talks we have had, I find out that all this time, all my W wanted was for me to hold her when she was crying/upset. She needed that from me and I gave her the opposite, not because I wanted to hurt her, or deny her what she wanted, but because stupidly, like most men, I thought what she wanted was for me to fix her. In fact, that was the farthest thing from what she wanted but she NEVER TOLD ME THAT, ESPECIALLY IN THE MOMENT. I suppose that is too much to ask for, but again, the one man's opinion is that if my W EVER just said "could you just hold me instead of trying to fix me?" I would have melted to her.

All I ever wanted, no matter how it came out, no matter how angry, aggressive, p/a, defensive, etc. I was towards my W when she was upset, was to do right by her, to "fix her" but most of all, to be what she needed at the time. I just never knew, even after all these years, that all she needed was a hug.

BI, all I am saying to you is to be SURE your H understands what you want from him. I can't say he's anything like me, or that I am anything like most men, but from what I have read and experienced, this idea that men try most everything else BUT simply, quietly, being there for a woman in the form of a hug/embrace, is almost universal.

Tell the man what you want, simply, in the moment and then let him give it to you if he's capable. If he's not, don't punish him for it, but also don't keep trying get it once he's demonstrated unwillingness or the lack of ability to meet your needs.

One last time, when I feel like I am the cause of my W's angst, and that is a LOT since another truism about men is that we often think our W's world revolves around us and they can't POSSIBLY be upset unless WE caused it, I can't IMAGINE what she really wants is for me to hold her. Even two nights ago, after her telling me that all these years, she just wanted me to hold her when she was upset, I found it damn near impossible to break through my fear/misunderstanding and just stop talking long enough to do it. When I did, she was asleep within 10 minutes. I swear, it still seems like a miracle I will never understand.

GH
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/25/06 12:37 PM
BI
Hey, girl--
thanks for stopping by my thread. I agree, i think we WERE separated at birth!

You've gotten some really great advice here. Esp. about TELLing your H you want to be held.

the thing that came to my mind also was, what if you told him you'd like to start from the beginning again? you are both new and different people now. start a new R as if you didn't know the old, clean the slate, no expectations, etc. and date.
talk.
share thoughts not of your R and how you'd like it to improve, but what you'd like your life to be like...dreams and hopes for the future.

i think sometimes we keep trying to fit the new round peg person into the old square hole they used to fill and we end up wasting so much time adjusting, chipping away, squeezing and prodding. maybe sometimes its just easier to start new and fresh?

You could still talk about what you liked before and want to carry over, but no accusations-real or implied-i.e. learning to trust again which refers back to the loss of trust before (blaming). Make sense?

just my thoughts.

course, i'm no where near that yet.
H finally made the lawyer appt for next thursday, then said, well, even then it'll be months before its final.
Meaning he still has time to bail or change his mind? who knows.

anyway, just wanted to come by and say hi!
jacqm
Posted By: cat03 Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/25/06 02:18 PM
Quote:

H finally made the lawyer appt for next thursday, then said, well, even then it'll be months before its final.
Meaning he still has time to bail or change his mind? who knows.



My H would say the very SAME thing jac! he'd say "well, we have 12 mths to work it out", then again he'd say it over and over thinking that maybe that made me feel better? I finally had to tell him during a MC session that I just didnt' want to hear the word D unless it was a sure thing, he was taken by surprise and stop mentioning it, eventually he dropped the lawyer.
Thank you guys so much for stopping by; I am continually humbled and thankful for this community of people that holds each other up no matter what. It's been such a blessing to me to have you on 'standby' and willing to step in to comfort, or slap, me as needed.

After muuuuuuch gnashing of teeth last night, we had a decent denoument to the discussion. Here's the weird thing I had for my take-away lession from H. He is all about needing Affirmation (which is different than his prior #1 need of Acts of Service). So, I've been AOS-ing him more (prepping his coffee in the a.m., little stuff like that I never worried with before), which is still good. But I've also been trying to affirm him, yet IN THE WRONG AREA.

I've been thanking him for what a great dad he is, how I couldn't do my job without all his help at home, how much I appreciate the little things he's done to surprise me (he bought me new nursing scrubs and some cool Keen sandals I've wanted), things I appreciate/admire about him. About him being a good man in general, or things he does.

Well he doesn't want THAT, he wants me to acknowledge his efforts in THE R (which is way harder to do, b/c it's more vague & our perspectives are different about it): to thank him for spending time with me talking about his day when he never did that before. He still doesn't do much of it now, IMO, but apparently HE VIEWS it as a large amount of time and effort.

If I would give him more positive affirmation in that area, he says, he would feel safer moving toward me. Gosh, it sounds so damned simple and stupid writing it down here but it really is a tad more complex than it looks.

Anyway, it seems so REPETITIVE (apparently I need a Relationship Conversation Thesaurus, b/c I don't know how to say the same thing over and over w/out sounding like a fem-bot). He is really hung up on how he will come upstairs and will tell me about his day, or what's going on with work (he doesn't do this as much as he thinks, but I digress), and how it's more than he used to do pre-A and wants to be acknowledged/affirmed for that.

I just sent him an email tonight thanking him for sharing about some tee-tiny issue going on with the school board, but it feels dumb to me and again repetitive. Affirmation Vocabulary 101 anyone?

Regardless, my point was that I was thanking him/validating him/ appreciating him in the WRONG area for HIM to feel affirmed. I will sound like a 3rd grader if I have to and thank and affirm him every bloody time he shares/spends time with me, even for a minute. I am determined for him to be OVER-affirmed, if that's possible. I just cringe when I don't have an arsenal of variety to say.

And then he got on his soapbox about him spending time with me, b/c isn't that what I WANT? Well, again, he's shooting blanks b/c he's trying in the WRONG direction for ME at this point. I need more than watching an episode of "24" once a week, and an H who will not come to bed with me at the same time, even if God on High came down to tell him to. I need physical touch like nobody's business, especially now.

And I said to H point blank, this whole affair plays right into my triggers (rejection, left-out, unworthy, less-than) and he of all people should know that (from my FOO/childhood).

The fact that we were in an SSM pre-A, and I'm thinking it's mostly H's problem (low SD, his FOO issues, or whatever), then he has an A (requiring time, effort, and passion) so gosh, no, it must be ME (see above negative adjectives)...

...he leaves OW and returns to the M, but we continue to have an SSM? WTF? where did all of his passion/emotions go? They surfaced, I witnessed them, you can't deny you have them. It's like the Lost Colony: poof! disappeared. <insert suicidal tendencies here> j/k

Anyway, that's the take-home from last night's weepfest. All perspectives (and affirmation catchphrases) welcome.
Posted By: RBinBR Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/26/06 11:36 AM
BI, I agree that there is little that can be done as long as you and your H continue to lead separate lives. Is there any way that you can get a sitter and plan something fun out of the house for you to do together? Not a movie or dinner ... something fun for him, tied directly to his interests, whether that's a ballgame, concert, amusement park, etc.
Quote:

Well he doesn't want THAT, he wants me to acknowledge his efforts in THE R (which is way harder to do, b/c it's more vague & our perspectives are different about it): to thank him for spending time with me talking about his day when he never did that before. He still doesn't do much of it now, IMO, but apparently HE VIEWS it as a large amount of time and effort.



You need to know what needs to be improved from his perspective and what he's doing to improve it. Then, and only then will you be able to really see his strides for what they are. There shouldn't be mindreading involved. You also will be GENUINE in your acknowledgment of his efforts because you will recognize that he's doing what he set out to do, not doing things differently that you may or may not attribute to conscious effort on his part. Get it all out there and be methodical about it!
Posted By: JokerMan Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/27/06 02:07 AM
B.I.

Well you are obviously a Christian. Here is one for you:

Matt. 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

What is possible B.I.? Your marriage? Your sanity? Your happiness?

You have something I do not and many do not. You have the trust to lay things down at the feet of God and feel the comfort because of it. You have that strength.

Lay it down hon. Just let Him worry about it. He is big enough to.

Not much more advice just following along.

- JM
as always, so grateful for your honest replies.

And JM, you are right and we just had this discussion tonight (get out of my house, man!) about how I need to lay down my incessant need to control my surroundings in order to avoid pain/hurt, to make sure something is not going to sideswipe me again (always one of my issues, now more cemented/justified to me by the A and my 'need' to have a 'handle on' my H and my radar is always tuned into him).

He said tonight that he (H) can't be the one I depend on to make me whole - only God can fill that hole I have - which I KNOW, but I'm unable to completely let GO of it. Even when I 'detached' from him the previous week and 'let him be', he said he could feel it that I hadn't detached in my heart (he's way too damned perceptive for my good) and he still felt analyzed and scrutinized with his every move, even when I don't say anything to him.

This is one of our 2 biggest relationship "crazy cycles" and if we can take the 'need to control out of fear' component out of this cycle that we could perhaps move foward. (Cycle 1: he withdrawls, i feel the need to hunt him down and flush him out, he runs away harder. Cycle 2 is the sex/physical thing, except our roles are reversed from 'normal' genders and I want sex in order to FEEL intimacy and he wants intimacy first to want sex)

But, he did say that one of the reasons he has hope for us is that we KNOW what our problems are, we just have to work thru them. That's why we have a C, and why we're seeing her again on Monday (finally!) . This road is a pain in my a$$ to travel, that's for sure. I wish I didn't love him SO damned much. But I do, and now I have to figure out MY work - and quit worrying so much about what HE'S not doing but about what I'M not doing. (groan. it's so much easier to b*itch about the other person, isn't it?)

Posted By: JokerMan Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 08/27/06 03:26 AM
****only God can fill that hole I have - which I KNOW

y'all both have a hole. A void if you will. Trying to figure out how to fill that hole is life.

****but I'm unable to completely let GO of it

Yes you can.

****But, he did say that one of the reasons he has hope for us is that we KNOW what our problems are, we just have to work thru them.

That's half the problem.

**** it's so much easier to b*itch about the other person, isn't it

No it is just easier to b^itch and not work on a solution.

You a good gal B.I. I can sense that. I think you are trying to hard, but that is in your nature.
God love him, he's sent me the first of a zillion installments and you can read him on my blog as of now. I would sure appreciate any encouragement to him in the Comments section as you see fit (JokerMan? GH? Bueller? ) and also I'm dying to hear your impression of it here as well.

JM, thanks for your encouragement, you are a good man too.
Posted By: JokerMan Re: H's story has started on my blog! - 08/29/06 04:10 AM
****JM, thanks for your encouragement, you are a good man too.

UMMMM you may want to ask my wife...she may disagree

I read his post. He is a good writer. When is the next installment? I commented on his blog.

The fact he is writing about it is a good thing. I never really thought about it until now...when I wrote about my affair is when I began my clarity. To put things in writing takes actions of the mind and the body.

Thanks JM. Soon, I hope. I don't want to nag him about it. I was hoping to wake up today with an installation in my email b/c he was up so late last night, but alas , tis none.

He had started writing about it, and how people were treating him, right after it was exposed, just for his own sanity I think. But he was still in the A, lying to people that he was not in contact with OW, and he just quit the writing and emailed OW for 5 weeks. It's been long enough (I hope) since it ended in January for him to look back and write about it now.

Had MC yesterday, lots of good insights. Will post more about that later today. My sinuses are exploding and I am hoping it's just change-of-season allergies and not a full-on illness coming. As the breadwinner now (with no sick days), I can't be sick

Quote:

Well he doesn't want THAT, he wants me to acknowledge his efforts in THE R (which is way harder to do, b/c it's more vague & our perspectives are different about it): to thank him for spending time with me talking about his day when he never did that before. He still doesn't do much of it now, IMO, but apparently HE VIEWS it as a large amount of time and effort.




Here, here. My W wants the same thing, and then in the next sentence, she'll tell me how unsure she still is about everything. I guess to us, that kind of thing makes us want to affirm LESS not more. I guess we need to understand that they are looking towards us to make them feel ok about what they are doing, or not doing.

Quote:

...he leaves OW and returns to the M, but we continue to have an SSM? WTF? where did all of his passion/emotions go? They surfaced, I witnessed them, you can't deny you have them. It's like the Lost Colony: poof! disappeared. <insert suicidal tendencies here> j/k




Amen here too. My W, the one who throughout our entire marriage has been the one who resisted sex or who at the very least was not passionate about it (lots of it my fault, BTW) had this admittedly torrid affair with lots of passion, etc, then when she's back in "us" she is back to being her old, cold self.

I hate that too, but as you said, it's REALLY complicated.

While I said my W wants affirmation, I REALLY want it too and I think you and my W suffer from that same "this is stupid to have to tell him the same damn thing over and over again" mentality. I can only tell you that there are certain things that I don't think I could EVER hear enough of and almost all of them would just be simple words of appreciation from my W. I can't tell you what words to use, but rest assured, using the same ones over and over again may not be nearly as trite as you think.

GH
Posted By: cat03 Re: H's story has started on my blog! - 08/29/06 03:58 PM
Quote:

He said tonight that he (H) can't be the one I depend on to make me whole - only God can fill that hole I have - which I KNOW, but I'm unable to completely let GO of it...
... the sex/physical thing, except our roles are reversed from 'normal' genders and I want sex in order to FEEL intimacy and he wants intimacy first to want sex)



BI, we are so in the same pg. Sunday during an argument he told me how whatever I need I need to look for it elsewhere (affirmation, solace) because at this moment he is still broken and can't give me anything, we do ML but other than that there is no affection unless it comes from me, he receives it but that's about it.

Same with sex, you wrote down exactly what's going on with us. At the begining he told me "it didnt feel the same" and this Sunday told me he felt ashamed & that's why he wan'st into it as before.

It's so hard for us women go without affection, I guess for the time being we need to try to fit a square peg into a round hole BI, fill ourselves w/other distractions and step back from our expectations just a bit.
Posted By: MuddleThrough Re: H's story has started on my blog! - 08/30/06 03:14 PM
Hey BI, give us an update on your MC session!
Posted By: NotMarried Re: H's story has started on my blog! - 08/31/06 12:10 PM
Hey BI43!

Finally getting a chance to catch up!

It seems the prevailing issue you have in your M right now is that your H wants acknowledgement that you are working on the M. You feel like you ARE, although to H it feels like you aren't.

Since you are in agreement about working on your M, why don't you just ask H what he would like to see you doing? Perhaps ask him to "set some goals" for your M and to give you the list. And maybe you could do the same. A short list - maybe just 2-3 things that you can each focus on.

It just seems that since the dialogue is there to work on your M, then being direct is in order. You can't mind-read (or can you?? LOL). So, would swapping a list of goals be something you & H can do?

Hope you're feeling better!
NM
Bless you guys for checking in. I am working like a hostage this week, so my posts have dwindled. Will be back in a few more days, I work nights thru the weekend. MC was a good session, as good as the prior one I thought. EXCEPT that she gives us 'homework' to do, and WE DON'T DO THEM. Not because I don't want to, but I'll remind H a few times and then STOP b/c dammit, if it was important to him he would fcuking DO it. Roadblock there. I'll fill in details on this when I've got the time, I promise. We see her again next wednesday a.m., so we DO have time to get it done, and I will mention it once or twice and see if he makes it a priority. or not. again.

Oh, so much to tell you the temptation is strong to stay online, but MUST sleep for work.

Do read H's post on my blog if you've not already and comment to it, and/or tell me here your impressions (before I tell you mine)
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 09/02/06 01:03 PM
BI, i want to read and post to you SO BAD but my puter keeps locking up.
our sits are So similar...and i was really interested in what your h wrote inyou r blog as i think it will help me jhnderstand my h. i want to read it!!
soon i hope.

jacqm
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 09/02/06 01:24 PM
i managed to stay online...i wanted to post a comment but don't want to take time to set up an account. so, here it is:

"i am really looking forward to reading more.
my husband is in the midst of an affair, and he too leads his 'public' life (which i WAS part of) and then his private life...it's like being married to two different people.

i want to understand--i DO understand. Affairs are really easy to fall into...its hard to keep your head clear in the emotional jungle. None of us can judge until we've been in those shoes.
I can't condemn my husband, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.
jacqm"
you can passit on if you like, BI
jacqm
Girl, I had no idea my comments were limited to registered users w/out your input. I have gone and fixed THAT, thank you and also copied your comment to H's post. Many are waiting for his next post, but I bite my tongue not to yell "come ON, man!"

just worked the last 5 out of 6 days and had a you-deserve-a-break-today glass of wine whilst checking email in the bed. ahhh. supposed to work tomorrow as well, but there's a chance I won't so I've stayed up later than I should. yawn.

missing you guys, will try to catch up on reading a few threads and hope to post tomorrow night or wednesday (D6 7th birthday!)
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 09/08/06 05:05 PM
Believing, you and i could be reflections of each other.
I read on your blog your issues from your past, your needs, physical expectations and experiences, and I share those same issues/needs.
H and I are also switched in the usual gender roles.
You mentioned on your blog about reflecting on your past-- what have you come up with? Have you learned to deal with/control your issues/needs?
I'm curious, as now that i'm "separated" and H is pushing for the D, i'm being bombarded by longings and opportunities that i'm trying to fight. It's such a battle! when you feel so rejected, and you crave someone to just put their arm around you....
Did you find it hard to trust men? Assume that they really only wanted sex, so all their talk of love was aimed towards that one thing; that they didn't really mean what they said? that you didn't really deserve that kind of devotion, so therefore, they had to be lying?
and, having given your trust finally to one man (your H) and then he goes and has an affair (and, in my case, wants a divorce), this just confirms what you really knew all along but were stupid enough to fall for.
Do you relate to that?

sorry to hijack this, but i wanted to ask you.
I'll post same on my thread.
jacqm
Jacqm, my sweet friend, thanks for checking in. If I had some freaking answers I'd bottle it and we'd all be happy, yes? No, I'm nowhere near dealing with all I have mulled over in the last few weeks, but I'm less an ostrich than ever before so I'm happy with that for now.

I've always had trust issues with men, so this really f's me up on a lot of levels. Have no idea all the ramifications of it, but I am still waiting for H to be secretly longing to get out of the M, etc. It's an underlying fear (sometimes an underlying panic) that effects a lot of what I do/think/act, I believe.

With that said, I'm going to write some concrete things here about what I've done this week in the 180 department. Noticed? no idea. But have to say I am quite content with myself regardless.

First off, as I mentioned before, I grew up in a crappy house with a lot of b*tching and sarcasm and snippy tones. Very mean undercurrents going on, and one of the things I disliked the most there (aside from the outright abuse) were the tones of voice in my household of origin. I cannot emphasize this enough. People were always negative, even to the point of arguing with the TV, finding the worst in every situation, etc. and the TONE of voice just was so sharp-edged and wounding.

Well, true to form, what I hated the most I have become. My tone of voice can be just like my mother's, when I'm impatient, mad, or selfish. Or even when I'm none of the above. Was just hard-wired in there way back when.

I've made a real effort post-A (when I had all the reason in the world to be a tone-of-voice nazi) to not be that person. I have failed miserably for the most part on COUNTLESS occasions since December, trust me. But the awareness of what my goal is and what I'm trying to do is big for me, Ms. Don't-Look-At-Anything-Negative-About-Self-And-Actually-Try-To-Change-It.

But lately (as in the last few days consistently) I HAVE been really changing my tone of voice in all situations. Not doormat-ish, just softer and more friendly.

I had been noticing my voice when I dealt with relative strangers, just saying 'hello' and 'thank you' at my gym to the trainers, etc., that my voice was really nice and I kept thinking about it. Like, wow, I do have a pleasant voice if I can just harness it at home with my family. So I've been attempting that more, and this week it seems to be sticking more often, praise God. So that's happy 180 Number One.

Number Two is somewhat related to the voice. My daughter just turned 7 and her party is tomorrow. Every year, I turn into stark-raving-stepford-lunatic-b*tch in preparation for her parties. The invitations, decorations, etc must be perfect. Yes, b/c I love my child, but I mow down everyone in the house during the prep and am tense as crap. God, what a nightmare I have been. ugh.

Anyway, last year we had a nice party for her, and I remember H said afterward (trying to point out things about me that I was not seeing) that I had been rude/short with him in front of the parents at the party (some unimportant crap about bringing out the hot dogs, who knows?). And you know, I just hadn't really noticed. And quite honestly, didn't much give a sh!t b/c again, I have been a real b*tch in my former life.

Well, about 3 months after that, my world caved in and I remember this example of something that humiliated (emasculated?) him, b/c I just never hardly showed him real respect after a while.

SO. Fast forward to this week. I am so laid back about this party it is wonderful. Everything is still really nice, but it's not down-to-the-minute perfect. Things I would have prepped ahead of time, I am turning into a craft for the girls to do themselves and have fun with (decorating their goody bags). AND, big incident tonight. Weeks ago, I ordered a pinata on ebay, paid WAY too much money for it and too much to ship it. Basically was an idiot because my D7 wanted a certain one, and I couldn't find it anywhere else, nevermind that we are on the brink of financial ruin. Caution to the wind!

So, H and I opened it up when it arrived, looked at it and I boxed it back up and put it in the garage on his work desk to be worried with closer to time (i.e. tonight) when we needed to fill it with candy. So, here's tonight. That box cannot be found, and we think that perhaps H took it to the dump thinking it was an empty shipping box b/c hey, pinatas are so light the box weighed nothing. Old Me? Would've fcuking KILLED him, raged from one end of the house to the other about how he had ruined his D's birthday. Not so obviously b*tchy, mind you, just subtly jabbing him with barbs all night. New Me? Never raised my voice, or changed it from my friendly tone, said it was no big deal, it was nobody's fault,we'll think of something else to do for a game. Went upstairs to calmly break the news to D that we'd lost it (with H silently at the bedside, feeling like crap by himself) and sweet girl said "that's okay" and we thought of another game to play with the candy. Crisis over, very expensive pinata gone and all is well regardless. And I never brought it up again. Went on about my business, no seething, no nothing. Just forgot about it. Over and out.

Sounds lame, but this is HUGE ya'll. I swear. Did H jump up and down and have a parade for me? No. b/c even if he noted the change to himself (which I have no idea), he needs to see this change longterm to feel 'safe' about it, I am sure. But I felt so at peace about the way I was (compared to the old me) tonight, I wanted to take out a full page ad in my paper! Look! I can change! I may bring it up at MC next week if the opportunity presents itself. If not, that's okay too.

There's always more to talk about, but I had to share these 180s with you guys b/c I've just NOT been really good at them so far but finally I am having some success. Even if H never cares about them, I do. I want to be more of this person in ANY R that I have, be it this one or with another man (God forbid, but ya gotta think about it). I'm so grateful for this chance to fix my garbage permanently.

Not like I won't still fall down and fail at times, but I am happy with the forward movement
Posted By: JokerMan Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 09/09/06 04:53 AM
Sounds like things are looking up BI 43!
Posted By: jacqm Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 09/09/06 10:18 AM
oh, Believing, that is so fantastic about your attitude improvements! Not getting angry, not being bitingly sarcastic...those are such great leaps!

the one thing i've read in the bible that i am trying to remember: "whatsoever is kind, pure, beautiful, etc etc; think on THESE things" God knows that what we dwell on (which is a CHOICE) is what controls our attitudes. if we focus on the good things and let the (relatively speaking) small stuff go, then our attitudes are more loving.

The pinata thing is BIG-you did so Good, Girl!!!

another bible thing i read a lot is James--he talkes so much about controlling the tongue. I had a hard time with the tongue-when i got angry or hurt inside (for i never showed it on the outside), i was able to say hurtful things "in honesty" or as "humor"; not in meanness (huh???) i think as a 'passive-agressive' thing.
i'm trying to learn to control that. trying, because we don't have that much contact, so its hard to get a chance to work at it.

oh well.
hey, have a great day, and i hope your daughter has a super bday!!!
jacqm
Posted By: cat03 Re: My Glass is Almost Empty, BI_43 part 2 - 09/11/06 03:23 PM
Quote:

Sounds lame, but this is HUGE ya'll. I swear. Did H jump up and down and have a parade for me? No. b/c even if he noted the change to himself (which I have no idea), he needs to see this change longterm to feel 'safe' about it, I am sure. But I felt so at peace about the way I was (compared to the old me) tonight, I wanted to take out a full page ad in my paper! Look! I can change! I may bring it up at MC next week if the opportunity presents itself. If not, that's okay too.





Hey girl, so good to see you making such progress. And I'm throwing you a parade!! you deserve it !!

Hon, I so understand your happiness, we could've been twins in our former lives, I could also be a mega b*tch when H messed up and be on him 'til I truly felt he had what he deserved. SAME thing w/the tone of voice, I never really realized how awful I could sound and talk when upset, I did talked down to him, expecting him to say "yes dear".

Hon, you give me so much encouragement to also keep the good attitude for the LONG term, we can do this!

Quote:

still waiting for H to be secretly longing to get out of the M, etc. It's an underlying fear (sometimes an underlying panic)



With H still not saying ILY (still ML) I also have this fear, that once the debt he incurred when he was away is paid he'll say ciao! and leave. Well, another little demon we need to slay, right?

I'm rooting for you gal, keep up the good work! I also pride myself on not going bonkers when H does stuff that drove up up the walls before and made me complain (leave his huge shoes on the dining area, his art materials every where, leave the bed undone 'til noon when he is the last one to get up, etc)
BI, I can't tell you how excited and actually encouraged I am to hear about your progress. After hearing you talk about how you used to parallel my wife (clearly now in the past) in the nasty behavior department, it's great to see how you've recognized and acted on the need to change. You know, my feeling about controlling, perfectionist behavior is that there's a real need to improve the self image of the person exhibitting these behaviors, and there's no doubt in my mind that you are doing so. The objective of the party is fun. Who can have fun when they someone is running around trying to make everything perfect and running other people down in the process? This is where the delicate balance has to be shifted away from form towards function.

The other part of this, the really big thing, is that you have decided that your feelings DON'T mean more to you than your committment to respecting your H and your life together. Clearly, if your H was at fault (which his attitude seems to confirm), you had every justification to be angry and to dredge up all sorts of memories that prove this pattern, etc. Instead, you let it go (and the fact that you aren't seething proves that you REALLY let it go) and accepted and forgave the offense. Big. Because really, you've given up the idea that this defines you. You've given up the idea that because something went wrong in your plan for the event, there's something wrong inside you that people will see. That's huge. In the past, I bet you would have really resented your H for exposing that flaw in you to the world. Now you accept what's happened and let it go, keeping your focus on what is important and what you can do in that moment to acheive your goals.

Oh yeah, and the tone of voice thing, I love it. It really does wonders when you think about your appearance and decide that you want to bring out a positive quality in yourself like that. You add that positive quality to the world you live in, actively loving it that way. Very nice. Go you!

Oh yeah, he noticed. He might not know what to make of it yet, but he noticed.
Oh, ya'll are too kind. I don't deserve such lavish praise, since I relapsed a smidge the next a.m. (sigh)

Muddle, I am constantly amazed at how dang insightful you are. Will you marry me? ha!
Quote:

Instead, you let it go (and the fact that you aren't seething proves that you REALLY let it go) and accepted and forgave the offense. Big. Because really, you've given up the idea that this defines you. You've given up the idea that because something went wrong in your plan for the event, there's something wrong inside you that people will see. That's huge




Wow, that was really something. Accurate, and not anything I had put a finger on until you pointed it out. Thank you for that. If it's okay with you, I plan to post on my blog about that story and will use that insight.

Will update you guys soon, must work tonight and leave in a minute. Just wanted to check in and THANK YOU for the positive encouragement. I am held up continually by the support here, and thank GOD for you guys, and pray this board will not have us as members forever!
Quote:

Will you marry me? ha!



Wow, positive attention from the opposite sex - almost forgot what that felt like!
Quote:

If it's okay with you, I plan to post on my blog about that story and will use that insight.



Please do. As far as I'm concerned, anything posted on a BB is public domain.
I'm jealous...



GH
Please stop in and read H's Part 2 on my blog - he just 'turned it in' and I posted it. It's (I think) really good, although I told him it's difficult to read at the same time. Hard to explain.

Look forward to your opinions, as always (and feel free to post a comment to H!)
Posted By: JokerMan Re: H's next installment is posted! - 09/13/06 03:36 AM
It all sounds so similar. It is good that he is writing this and getting it out in the open. Even though his affair was exposed, he is exposing it to his heart. This will help him, though it will hurt.
Thank you, JM, my friend. And many thanks for posting a comment to H; I'm sure it will encourage him. And perhaps someday you guys will communicate
Posted By: jacqm Re: H's next installment is posted! - 09/16/06 02:10 PM
believing--i posted to your blog...
i'm going out of town for a week, will be offline. Take care, and i'll check in with you soon!

jacqm
Posted By: cat03 Re: H's next installment is posted! - 09/18/06 01:53 PM
that's some blog you got there girl! it's so great he participates in this w/you, I'm sure it's helped you heal. My H opened up a little more even after he wanted me to promise I wouldn't bring up A again, more things that help me heal. He did tell me how he'd given all the outings and stuff he did in exchange for the A not to happen.

Take care hun
Well, I've been off the BB for several days, trying to catch up on my reading. I posted to MamaBear's thread a few minutes ago and thought I'd copy it here since it gives some insight into my sitch of late.

Quote:


How do I stop "watching and analyzing"? I am so tired of being suspicious all of the time.



Honey, if I knew, I'd write my own book. I'm not suspicious of the OW/A anymore, but of his feelings about me. There is no ILY from him. Ever. And yet, he's here and 'committed'. But it doesn't FEEL committed to me if there's no feelings with it...? Ack, anyway, should post all that crap on my own thread.

Anyway, all that to say that we analyze our S's in different areas for a LONG time. I don't want to, but I don't feel at ease and I don't know where we are emotionally, and H just feels the tension of being watched & scrutinized all the time. Yuck. It used to be a 'suspicious' watching, when I would check his email accounts and see what songs he was listening to on his iPod to gauge where his heart was. I haven't done that in a LONG time, but he still lives under that cloud from me. He said recently that it's the pressure of this whole M sitting on what he does/doesn't do, what he says/doesn't say to me, that somehow I've put the whole balance of this M in his lap. He's right, in a way, and I'm not sure how to stop that. Theories are easier than putting them into practice.

Hm. Have to copy & paste all this into my own thread. Sorry if it's a hijack, but I think some of this parallels your sitch too. H has started posting his story of the A on my blog in installments. If you haven't read any of it, you may find some of it insightful. Go here and look in the Sidebar for The Husband's Story links. Perhaps it will be helpful to you. That's why he agreed to it, to stop anyone from having an A if he could.

You know, on paper, he's doing all the right things, and yet I still feel miles away from him. I don't know when or if that will end.


Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Sh!t - 09/24/06 02:25 AM
This may make no sense but I'm journaling and not going to stop to edit right now:

I'm no idiot. I knew we were distant, etc. just being civil-ish and cordial but could not put my finger on it until today. His emotions have been shoved down and buried and I assumed it was 'stuff' about the OW, but it's not. He denied that his emotions were pushed down or that he was 'hiding' something this whole time. But I knew. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop for months. I just didn't know if I was looking for a boot, or a sandal, or a high-heel, but I knew something was coming. I don't know if the whole shoe is dropping now, but at least I see part of it coming.

Backing up a second...
This month has been unbearably stressful overall. Money is horribly tight - we just found out a few days ago that our checking acct was overdrawn by over $1000 (add to that over $400 in bank fees), which is a huge stress - and an ego blow to H who is not bringing in any $ as of late.

Plus, it's becoming Fall and colder here - and that time of year is when H's job would gear up and his travel increased, and he had a lot of responsibility nationally with his company, and to the people underneath him. Everyone looked to him for the next 3 months to keep things running smoothly. The job sucked rocks for our family, but he loved being on the go and important. Contrast that to now. Barely getting by, and not even, really. So when the weather started to cool, the pain of not being a part of things this year was brought in sharp relief against the backdrop of Now.

Plus, we found out this month that everyone in his department, including the higher-ups that screwed him HARD when they found out about the A, were all promoted. H would have been a company Director if he were still there, and money would be great. (but take note: I wouldn't have H in that job again if they were sh!tting gold bars into our bank account daily).

Again, contrast that to where we are now financially. All this is really HURTING my H, and that HURT is re-surfacing in the last few weeks, escalating a lot in the last few days. We were talking sometime in the last week briefly about some of it, and he said he could hardly go anywhere in town and not see someone 'tainted' by what he did. It's like when you rob a bank, and they booby-trap the money to explode that red powder on everything. He said that everyone he sees has red powder all over them from what he did, some more than others.

I thought about that more tonight, and suddenly it occurred to me that I have the most red powder on me - yeah, duh, I knew that already - but what I just realized is that every time H looks at me he sees me thru the hurt he caused me and that is why (or part of Why) we cannot connect, and I am of NO comfort to him when I try to listen/validate/sympathize. I knew it was ringing on deaf ears, but just thought it was me SUCKING at validating. No, not entirely. It's also HIM not able, or willing, to TAKE the validation from me.

This is all complicated by the fact that I betrayed him by turning his A in to his superiors without ever confronting him first. (That's all on my first dead-locked thread for those of you not around before). That was a complete violation of the Instruction Book (The Bible, book of Matthew, chapter 18. if someone sins against you, you first go to him DIRECTLY. Then, if they don't straighten up you go get some others to work on him, etc). He's been amazing about not throwing that in my face or holding it against me permanently (well, now - but boy, it REALLY sucked to be Me this winter. I wince to think of it), and now I realize it's more to do with him burying everything for so long. His physical affection (not that it was much, but it was kisses goodbye, etc) was really like living with a cardboard cutout person lately, and I kept wondering if it was just me.

Jee-Zuss in a handbasket. Just when you think you have scaled a small summit, you plunge into a freaking sinkhole. Anyway, he said tonight that he is so hurt by what I did, and also by the people he worked for, after 5 hard (hard! no lie) years of daily sacrifice for this organization they showed no loyalty. He even used the word 'betrayal' and didn't see the irony in it at all. He said he had been ignoring that pain for the last 9 months b/c he's been so busy worrying about making sure he was 'doing the right thing' with me, and making sure I could trust him, etc etc that he had just forgotten how painful this all was. Not that he didn't make a HUGE mistake and what he did was wrong (he did, and always does, qualify his statements with that), but he was a good person prior to this one huge fcuk-up, and nobody remembers that.

sh!t on seven sticks, ya'll. what ELSE?! i want to scream at God, but every time I've done that, by gum if He doesn't show me something Else. so i believe i'll shut up right now.

damn, this is almost harder than leaving, i think.

i sent him this email just now. the first line was posted in someone else's thread (maybe by whatisis, i can't remember) and i just loved how it sounded so i expanded on that thought. have no idea how he'll take it, or if i'm just a gi-normous PIA to him with all this 'support' but so be it:

this is just a small scene in the film called " your life"

it may be the pivotal scene that changes the film
it may be a mere subplot to distract you

-we won't know until we get through it, and that will be a while i think.

i think this is one of your hardest emotional times ever and i wish i was of more help. i try but i see it's not much use right now. your hurts are large and i want to help carry them, but you may never stop remembering my part in your pain (i know i don't).

i have, and will, continue to try to support you and encourage you as my team member. until -or unless- you don't want me to, or it feels like more of a burden than a comfort.

and that's a call you'll have to make, but i now understand how hard it may be to see me as Me. untainted by what's happened. now it all makes more sense - how i'm unable to comfort you or be of any help in your struggle. gosh, that's hard. i may be covered in red powder, but i'm the wife who loves you, who wants to be in a solid, laughing marriage with you. maybe you'll never see me w/out seeing your own hurt, but for now i choose to believe you will. and that i will too.

on the flip side, i remember hearing a sermon about how when we are saved, that God cannot look at us without seeing us thru the blood of Jesus. That no matter how fcuked up we are, or what we have done, that Jesus stands in the middle and God looks thru the Red to see us pure. remember that. i try to.
Posted By: RBinBR Re: Sh!t - 09/24/06 02:54 AM
BI, maybe it's time to move to a new city and make a fresh start, one that isn't so tainted by the past. What do you think?
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 09/24/06 03:15 AM
RB, at first glance I thought you were telling ME to get out and go make a fresh start alone, and my heart just went THUD.

This is a wonderful place to live (other than the whole affair thing being known) - and the schools are fantastic. Our kids are thriving in them, and that's one of the main reasons we stay. Plus, hello? did you not read that we are $1400 in the hole my friend? not exactly a time to up and have moving costs.

i understand what you're saying though. perhaps there'll be a time to move, but i don't think it's now. plus, my H feels betrayed by the world really. moving away won't solve much just yet. he's at a what's-the-point-of-trying-hard-and-being-a-good-person-when-one-mistake-ruins-your-entire-life crossroads.

But thanks for checking in to Hotel Insanity for a minute with me here.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 09/24/06 09:18 AM
Leaving for work in a minute, wanted to check in to post a thought and H's answer to my email last night.

First off, again he came to bed on Dracula's schedule. Probably 3am-ish. Never faced me, went right to sleep (he didn't know I was awake. I had actually cried myself to sleep for the first time in months, and woke up again when he came to bed). His back was to me most of the night, and while this is no big deal, it is when he turns to face my side of the bed after my alarm goes off and I'm out of bed. He's completely asleep, it's just subconscious I think.

Also, and I could be paranoid, but I think there's some truth here. H has been emotionally 'monotone' with me since the A (and even before) and he said during a discussion sometime recently, 'what if this is really who i am?" (b/c I was saying he had all this emotion in the A and then it disappeared and there's no great passion in him now). his argument is that the A wasn't real, was ridiculous, a fantasy, all the right words. but he still remains 'hidden' to me. Part of that is the hurt that I posted about last night, and this a.m. I started thinking that what if it's suppressed as a defense mechanism? As in: the last time I had a lot of emotions, my world fell apart, so I can't trust myself to have any emotions. Do you think that's a possible H thought process?

Anyway, with that out of the way, and the fact that I'll be late for work if I don't go now, here is H's email back to me from last night:

I am hurting, and I am struggling to not blame anyone for what I did, but also struggling with what was done to me. This season is going to be very hard, for the reasons I talked about. I don't know how to deal with all of this. I think I have been trying so long to stay accountable to my actions that I have forgotten everything else that went wrong.

The fact remains, though, that I too am a victim, and that may never be resolved. There is no triumphal entry through the gates for me; just that lonely and overwhleming feeling that I have lost it all.
Posted By: always_14 Re: Sh!t - 09/24/06 10:59 PM
There is alot of sadness in your H's post. In so many ways he has a point. He is being judged by actions he took in his personal life that in no way reflect on his professional expertise. This is an issue that affected his M....and impacts YOU.

I say this b/c my H is also now being crucifed for his A....no revelation on my part....he was seen by others and the gossip mill just got started. I don't feel sorry for H, it was his dumb mistake. And it's really humiliating to me. BUT, when things started biting him professionally, I did think that was irrelevant....he's a good clinician....a sleezebag, but a good clinician. But in H's case, he's letting things fall at work too, all on his own.

I really think facing this hurdle is meant to be part of your H's growth through this experience. To fall and get back up is one of the hardest things you can do. My brother, who went through a "crisis" of sorts after dropping medical school AFTER finishing (then he went back and got back in the field, but had to explain 2 missed years), said it was the hardest and best experience of his life to fall, get back up and to face the music and consequences of what you did....to sit there in interview seats and answer why you screwed up your life for 2 years. He broke down many times, but still came through.

I think the same is for your H. I think the best advice I have for you is that your H is dealing with the consequences and ripples of HIS life....it's hard to let go when you're living in the same house and M. BUT, he's finishing up the phase of his own life that he walked down when he started the A. So, leave him be. Let him sort through this, and be a friend and parter from afar. Be supportive, validate and no pressure, only when he seeks it. If he does not, trust that he's working through things.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 09/25/06 01:04 AM
Always, thank you for your insight. I am still attached like a Siamese-freaking-twin to the outcome, I'm noticing. I haven't dropped the rope worth a flip, and am still in What's In It for Me Mode, I think, on a very basic level. Still working thru that idea, what it means, and what the heck I plan to do about it.

I need to be supportive and not so fcuking DISAPPOINTED in what I am not getting from my H. That hangs like a black cloud over the atmosphere of this house and it's UP TO ME TO CHANGE THAT, not to wait for some happy pill to descend upon the home for me to get over my disappointment and ENTITLEMENT feelings. Which is somewhat understandable, but one hell of a cheesless tunnel here.

Slowly posted this on Sven the Red's thread a few months back (in Piecing) and it's true true true, people:

Quote:

While we are DBing in ernest, progress (or developments anyway) seem to happen almost on a daily basis, and the good and bad are quite obvious.

Once we are Piecing, changes are far more subtle, but perhaps more sustained? And the LBS who has been doing most of the heavy lifting is left to wonder, when is the acknowledgement and return on effort going to be evident? And I think it really is up to us to re-frame what develops as the return we have been looking for.


Posted By: JokerMan Re: Sh!t - 09/25/06 02:02 AM
****but one hell of a cheesless tunnel here

This is a great phrase. I love it. If you keep putting your hand on the stove and it keeps burning; ya gotta do something different. If you do the same things and expect other results...your a fool.

You are fighting the good fight. Hang in there.
Posted By: Mamabear Re: Sh!t - 09/29/06 06:09 PM
BI,
When I read this it was like, wow!! She knows exactly how I am feeling, except that you are so much better than I at putting words to your feelings.

Quote:

I need to be supportive and not so fcuking DISAPPOINTED in what I am not getting from my H. That hangs like a black cloud over the atmosphere of this house and it's UP TO ME TO CHANGE THAT, not to wait for some happy pill to descend upon the home for me to get over my disappointment and ENTITLEMENT feelings. Which is somewhat understandable, but one hell of a cheesless tunnel here.





What tunnel do you suggest we go down now?
Posted By: cat03 Re: Sh!t - 09/29/06 06:22 PM
I agree w/mamabear, you are right down to the last dot,

magic happy pill to erase dissapointment = cheeseless tunnel

I'm trying hard to get out of the tunnel...

Where are you woman? working your butt off?
Posted By: MuddleThrough Re: Sh!t - 09/29/06 07:08 PM
Quote:

I need to be supportive and not so fcuking DISAPPOINTED in what I am not getting from my H.



Maybe reframing these thoughts when you have them as "what can we do together" rather than "what he's not doing for you" could help? As long as you maintain the perspective that you are doing for yourself what you feel needs to be done - and finding ways of doing this together - you are going to rid yourself of disappointment, not only because you will get exactly what you are looking for, but because if you don't it will be because you couldn't/didn't do it for yourself. It's much easier to forgive yourself than someone else when you don't get something you want.

I can't speak from the perspective of someone in a relationship that's piecing, but I imagine I would go into piecing now with the same perspective I have now: this process is about learning about myself, improving myself, moving towards fulfilling my potential and purpose. It's not an investment with a return down the line. Not an exercise in delayed gratification - but it is a process by which you live your life closer and closer to personal truth - and there's another doing this with you. Each difficult step you have taken has brought you closer to this state of being. I know there's always some part of you that's looking to get something monumental for your efforts, to have that fantasy relationship really fulfill you, be the happy pill that cures your ills. I think we all look to a relationship to see ourselves mirrored in the other person. I think there is a part of ourselves that wants to see nothing more than ourselves complete and perfect in the eyes of the other. And if only this would make it true.

At some point, when you are both on stable, healthy ground, I think there needs to be open and honest discussion about what your relationship needs to be for you both. Compromises and agreements made. This way everything is out on the table, there are no unspoken expectations to build resentment over. If you're disappointed in your H then, you either have reason to be because of your agreement, or you can recognize that you are looking for something in your relationship that you need to find in your self.

Just my thoughts. Hope you're doing well as I haven't heard from you in a few days.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/01/06 02:34 AM
OMGosh, ya'll, I've been wandering around other people's threads and had no idea there were any posts on mine since I've been away a while. Just this week really; working so much (yawn) - day shifts, night shifts, overtime - was going to watch a DVD with H tonight and just crashed hard around 6pm, and came to bed instead. Woke up briefly and thought I'd check in with ya'll.

Found myself quoted on Mamabear's new thread in Piecing, and posted to her, and here's what I said there:

Quote:

I struggle MIGHTILY in my feeling of being OWED a good R by my H. We had a talk/discussion/argument/cry(me) today - started on one topic and just bled into all the others - and I cannot stand how he will state one of his needs, or disappointments, or some place where he is not getting something from me, and I will TURN IT AROUND immediately and state how I'm not getting something either. How it always has to be ABOUT ME. ugh.

Oh, I'll go post this mess on my own thread, and should probably move over here from Infidelity soon anyway. But Mama, piecing is SO much harder than fighting for your M, IMHO. I think GH said it well once, b/c he pointed out that in the middle of the A, you have a GOAL that is tangible and you are fighting against it, and also FOR your marriage and now this Piecing requires you not to FIGHT so much as to STAND STILL and wait, in terms of the R moving at its own pace. And all of us hate that waiting thing, b/c hello? they were out of the gate like a horse when it came to OW/M, so let's get cracking in the M. It's just not the same, and it's a lesson in grace and patience that I wish I wasn't having to learn (and relearn) every day.




More on that 'discussion' today when my head is not pounding from fatigue. I think about you guys even when I'm not here. Ya'll should work in a hospital - it does help me put my life in perspective every day, when I see some of the things people have to deal with. (i.e 3 small sisters killed in a house fire
) We don't have any problems when you look at things like that
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/03/06 02:37 AM
Must. Sleep.

Too tired for rational thought, but had to share this bit of wisdom from 25yrsmlc over in Piecing. There's a thread over there asking people if they're really happy piecing, or not. Lots of good insight, and more reinforcement about how Piecing is so freaking HARD, ya'll. Anyway, this is the post that, for whatever reason, smacked me with a 2x4 between the eyeballs.
Quote:

In a workshop I attended a man had spoken of his W often and how she did not love him the way he wanted to be loved. At least, that is how I saw his problem....anyway, he mentioned that she wanted to come to the "graduation" if he wanted her to and he did. But he changed his mind, and so she did not plan on attending. Later someone convinced him it would be fun and once again the H changed his mind about his W coming to the ceremony...She again was flexible and fine with whatever he wanted. He seemed a little embarrassed at how many times his mind had changed. A light went off in his head and he began weeping.


He said, "all these years I've wanted her love to come to me in a certain way and I refused it if it wasn't in that exact 'one lane of a road', it could only come in the lane I wanted it from..... I've shut out so much of the love in the other lanes, so much love she was offering me all these years, what a fool I've been....she will come to the ceremony or stay home b/c she wants to do what will make ME happy....I want to love her the way she loves me and not close off so many lanes in my life...."

I saw this with my own eyes, and hope it comes across half as profound as I experienced witnessing it. It was a miracle I think, and if you'd heard his earlier comments you'd know it was true. How much do we shut off?

And if your H somehow made it clear that he GOT IT, and was genuinely sorry, why couldn't you THEN drop it, forgive and move on.???? If he really got it, he wouldn't do anything perilously close to his "before" behavior. You don't have to psychoanalyze it to be reassured, I'd say the opposite. BUt you will get nowhere if you insist that he keep on proving it all over again to you.

DB coach said to me (and other LBSers) something you might like:

"KEEP THE ROAD HOME PAVED AND SMOOTH" so let's not make it harder than it already is. I know some WAS don't ever come back b/c they believe it'll be too hard...they won't be forgiven or trusted or even taken back at all no matter what. When LBSers insist on continuing to need the reassurances a year down the road, they make it harder for all. IF your H 'got it', then you move forward as if it's a new love, b/c it is.




Now, my whiny-a$$ed self wants to qualify these points: but it isn't a 'love' b/c my H doesn't love me anymore, wah, wah, blah, blah I am just really wanting my ONE Fcuking LANE road and no others. Yeah, maybe he's not all 'feeling the love' right now (which, if I sit and dwell on that, could take me under) BUT if I keep whining and b*tching and moaning about it, how much further away do I pull us from him actually saying ILY some day?

God's working it out, I'm hoping, yet I keep stepping in and pushing the healing further away; the happy times keep being DELAYED because of MY BAD ATTITUDE. Don't you know God's up there shaking his head: I love her, but if she'd just SHUT UP I could get my work done quicker.

The silent pressure on H from me is HUGE. yuck. who wants to live in that vacuum? i certainly wouldn't (but i'm not saying it's not HARD to walk around mopey and entitled and all why-don't-you-love-me-again-right-now-ish. it's damned near impossible for Drama Queen Me).

This just really drove it home for me in a way I've not felt before. Now to figure out what to do about it.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/04/06 11:52 AM
Toughlover in Piecing posted last week about what he and his W are specifically doing to work on their R/M. and I printed it to use at MC today. Here's what I just wrote him:

Quote:

TL, your list is printed, and I'm "fixin' to" highlight (as we say in the South) the parts I want to discuss today. Our MC appt is at 9:30 EST and today, 10/4, was already earmarked as our State of the Union day. So we'll be going over where we are and where we want to go. I told H last night we had a lot to discuss with MC today and he said, "are you leaving?" He is always expecting an ambush. That's a mutual problem in our M of late. I told him NO, that I wanted an action plan, with measurable goals, and a thorough discussion of what we both want (i.e. what would things look like specifically if we were each getting what we want in this R). Will paste this to my own thread, but wanted to thank you for your outline and I'll be adding on my own goals/actions to yours.

I'll keep you posted (pardon the pun. ha!)




Thanks also to Muddle, for driving home, in previous posts, the idea of MEASURABLE goals. You can't tell progress if you can't measure it somehow, he kept telling me. I get it, and I think H will too. Yeah, it's not romantic, but floating around in the cosmos hoping things will improve is also a cheeseless tunnel here at Chez Stepford.

I work tonight, with lots of busy-ness in between but will try to update you this evening if possible. Going to pray for the last little bit before we go. Would appreciate anyone shooting up a 'flare prayer' for us today as you see fit.

Thanx guys.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/09/06 01:21 AM
Didja miss me? I'm just checking in to say that the MC session went well; God really worked it out that day, even playing me some good songs on the iPod shuffle on the way over as encouragement. I felt a little silly when we started, as I made the statement that I'd like to make efficient use of our time together b/c of the State of the Union and some things I wanted to say/address. Then I pulled out my Bible, 2 printouts from this Board, and a notebook and pencil. Class was in session. ha. Anyway, we came up with an Action Plan based on things I presented and 'asked' for, and MC and H agreed to them. They are written down on a list of things we're to do each week together, but the list is out in my car so I'll post it here (and on the blog) tomorrow-ish. We've not done them all, and H didn't want me to initiate them all (he said in MC), so I sort of feel like a brat in school who's going to keep quiet and then 'tattle on him' when we get to MC a week from tomorrow, if they've not been done. ugh.

Felt really good about the session and when we left there, but things (as they always do) dip after a high point. H is having emotional issues, and could really use a friend - who is not someone affected by this A, which of course excludes me, and most of the people we know. So I'm going to start praying about that for him.

And I put on a leather jacket I've not worn in a loooonnng time today. Something in the pocket. Pulled it out, it was a hotel room key from last December when I flew across the country to try to stop the A from occurring. Yeah, thanks for that, God. groan. Threw it in the trash and never mentioned it (the old me would have SO mentioned it, just to twist the knife into H. Don't forget, I'm hurt. You hurt me. Over here, look at my hurt. Poor me. Look here at this hotel key, you big POS.)

Also, went to church today without H (he could not wake up, b/c he's on a fcuking DRACULA schedule, which he promised to quit in MC and I've yet to see a change 4 days later. Deep breath). ANYWAY, I go to church and am surrounded by our old friends from his job. His boss & wife sat with me, one of the VPs and family were in the row in front of us, and I met another VP as the boss introduced me to him. H would have DIED a thousand deaths to know this, as I'm sure they were all wondering where he was, etc etc. I fought the urge, while sitting in church, to go home and twist the knife in him about it. Came home, he asked about church, I said it was fine. Nothing else.

On the way home I kept thinking, what good is it to my life and relationship to make H feel like sh!t about himself. Not much. How can I show love to him like Christ would? By being non-bitter about him staying home and not mentioning the work people to him. Trust me, I am less than impressed by his behavior since MC appt, but it's NOT MY JOB to fix him or point out every shortcoming I see. Working on that. But you know, he doesn't poke me about all of my failings either. And there are many of my own. So I'm working at being pleasant and non-judging about what I don't like. Baby steps.

Will post the Weekly Goal list shortly.
Posted By: always_14 Re: Sh!t - 10/09/06 04:00 AM
Honey, you're on the path and doing well on what we have all hoped you would do.....start to forgive and take action on the forgiveness. Easier said than done...given what you read and such.

BUT, it IS the past, and you can't always hold him to that (of course, I yammer on about this....not like I am in your shoes....FAR behind, of course, with an H that is just plain nuts).

You are taking steps. With each time you DO NOT say something, I guarantee a small part of you is healing. You need to start also seeing H in a new light...not in the "my bastard H who cheated on me.." And the less it comes up between the 2 of you, the more likely that will happen. Remember, the red paint needs to come off of you AND him.

I cannot imagine what he's going through. My H is going through the samet hing, but sadly, it may be the one thing that keeps him from trying to work things out (oh, and his raging MLC too...did I mention that!!!). Really, he's so horribly depressed, about his job, being disrespected b/c of the A, and a failed M that could have been worked on had he not run in the other direction. I think that is what is so tough too....to see the spouse try AFTER you have gone and made a wreck of your life...not that we ASKED them to have the A to change.

My H always laments...why did this happen....why did we not address this sooner. Well, I did...you were in MLC land.

Anyway...it's regret all over the place for your H. He doesn't need YOU to make him feel guilty anymore...it's not like he's in a fantastic mood, forgotten about things, didn't really say sorry and thinks it's normal. He's feeling rotten for the both of you.

Be his friend now, as much as you can. AND....really put 100% into the M right now....you WILL see effort on his part and it will make you feel good to focus on something other than th epast.
Posted By: cat03 Re: Sh!t - 10/09/06 04:14 PM
Quote:

I kept thinking, what good is it to my life and relationship to make H feel like sh!t about himself. Not much. How can I show love to him like Christ would



That is SO true! it also dawn on me "what good is it to remind him how much he screwed up?" I found an old movie stub, he'd gone with op to see a movie I loved (he knew I was dying to see it) and which I ended going alone. I mentioned I'd rent it (he doesnt' know I know he went w/her, at least I was able to act like an adult and didnt fuss about it) I just wanted to see what he said, of course he played dumb. So, what the heck was I expecting?? for him to tell me "oh yes, the movie I went to see w/op" ... but again, I didnt' rub it on him that I knew the truth.

We gain nothing but hurt when we twist the knife, I think we are stepping up the ladder by acknowloging this truth BI, as my H's TM said last week "I feel low enough", someone posted to me "be his safe place to land" Let's always remember that.
Posted By: jacqm Re: Sh!t - 10/10/06 05:23 PM
one of the things i read somewhere is to pray for God to let you see your H as GOD sees him, not as he is in our eyes...covered by Grace, and as the man God wants him to be. Soon, you will see him that way, too.

in other words, how we perceive them in our heart determines how we see them in real life-honorable or dishonorable, which then controls how we treat them and react to them. If we can see them honorably, then we don't have to fight to keep our actions non-condemning.

Even tho my H is still out there and still with the OW, I prefer to think of him as the honorable man he used to be and i will defend him as such to others as well as to himself. its only when i dwell on what he's done that i hurt.
I think that's the key--its easy to focus on our hurts and pain, but when we take our eyes off ourselves and keep focused on Jesus, it becomes bearable and we can be merciful and loving.
jacqm
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/11/06 12:46 AM
Thank you guys for your insight; I've had less time to post than I'd like to, but I am reading your threads I promise! JACQM, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FRIEND? please post on your thread, I have been thinking about/concerned for you. Would like to hear about you more.

Always, thank you for dropping by. You have so much going on, but I am proud of how your recovery times (from the lows) are less each time (have you noticed?) - that is real progress. You are so strong. And have great insight.

Muddle, I read your thread just now, and 45 minutes seems SO short to have a first C session with the 2 of you. Our first MC session with our DECENT therapist was about 2 hours, to 'set the scene'. I should post this to you directly, but I'm here on my thread and pressed for time!

OH! Here's my piece of paper with the ACTION PLAN from our State of the Union MC session last week. I'll refrain from commentary about what has (and has not) happened yet. We meet again with her on Monday, purposely skipping a week to see if we could settle into/initiate these changes before we check in with her.

1) Pray together every morning or evening
2) H gets up by 9 a.m.
3) Recreational time (interaction time, not passive watch-movie time) with no R talk
4) Recreational time with our kids once/week; recreational time adults only once/week
5) Sex once a week

Ya'll gnaw on that and I'll update you on what happens with it when I get more time. Work the next 2 day shifts and then a night shift right after. So I'll be cruising here but probably not enough time to post and still have sleep. (sigh)
Posted By: cat03 Re: Sh!t - 10/11/06 05:25 PM
Quote:

how we perceive them in our heart determines how we see them in real life-honorable or dishonorable, which then controls how we treat them and react to them. If we can see them honorably, then we don't have to fight to keep our actions non-condemning.

ts only when i dwell on what he's done that i hurt




it amazes me how tall this "ladder" of progress is, each time I find myself in a new "step" thinking, wow this is so true! jac, you are on the money, each of us have 2 paths to choose from.
When we focus on the negative, nothing much can happen but hurt, we now should be able to choose not to open that pandora's box, I've been fighting w/images/thoughts of my H's SL when he was away, thoughts were assaulting me.

Those thoughts will always be hurtful..if I keep them alive by dwelling on them. But if I choose to focus on the positive side I will "feed" the good area of my brain. Must destroy the path I made in my brain that automatically makes me think of dumb stuff.
Posted By: MuddleThrough Re: Sh!t - 10/11/06 05:37 PM
Quote:

Muddle, I read your thread just now, and 45 minutes seems SO short to have a first C session with the 2 of you. Our first MC session with our DECENT therapist was about 2 hours, to 'set the scene'. I should post this to you directly, but I'm here on my thread and pressed for time!



It was short because our babysitter (W's friend) was late. Frustrating, but we managed to get a lot out on the table. It's progress - any movement in the process is good.

Congrats on an action plan! You'll really be proud of yourself when you accomplish what you set out to do together! Now, keep you eyes on your own plate and let H worry about his. Anytime you feel he's not keeping up his end of the bargain recognize that you aren't do so well on yours and you're projecting your stuff onto him. If this isn't objectively true, you'll at least keep yourself moving forward by focusing on what you can control.

I have to agree with Cat that that is a very important thing to be aware of. We know we cloud our reality with our perspective, but this recognition doesn't do us much good unless we actively look to the positive and never put a ceiling on the potential of our spouses by forcing them to live in a prison defined by their past actions. We have to see them as the see themselves at their best. Otherwise we are living out a nihilistic, empty value driven dream that only serves our egos - and not very well at that.
Posted By: jacqm Re: Sh!t - 10/12/06 11:45 AM
Wow--some good truths here...you should put them in print--or at least print them out to read/re-read/and read again til its ingrained. we all should.

i'll post to my thread, just haven't felt much like it lately. some good been happening, some disappointing, some just to make things more difficult.

i just like to check in here to see how y'all are doing. You and your H are going to be OK, i think--it just takes a while to relearn things.

jacqm
Posted By: JokerMan Re: Sh!t - 10/14/06 03:13 AM
I have been out of the loop. Any updates on the blog? If so can you post the link again?
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/14/06 07:18 PM
JM! Where R U? Have babies? Doing okay? Hook me up with the 411, please. H is going to post soon, he says, but it's been difficult for him. You can see why in some of my blog posts (http://instepford.blogspot.com)

We had a crappy argument last night, and I got defensive, yelled, and was generally my pissy old self. Go me (ugh). But we hammered it out (as I called him back from my cell phone from work going up the stairs to the hospital to clock in last night). I just couldn't leave it crappy for the whole night. and apologized b/c I'm so FREAKING FRUSTRATED. (the Action Plan as Roadkill being one - 1 out of 5 done - and him being dissatisfied with me, but not giving me MEASURABLE THINGS to do to make him feel better, etc.). I told him he's have to give me something more than needing to be 'accepted as a person on a basic level' - WTF, man, obviously I need more direction, and it feels like he keeps changing the hoops he wants me to jump through. Told him all that, and he promised to think about WTH that would look like to him, so I'm not living on VagueWorld. I made my goals for him measurable in order for me to feel better, and I need him to do the same.

That's the news from Chez Stepford for today - we did get our Christmas photos made today. For the last several years it's always just the kids because H has been traveling the last 3 months of the year. This year he was here and we took our first family photo in 3-4 years. I hope it looks good. It felt a little funny, but I hope it is a beautiful pic to give us hope.

Headed to McDonald's (ugh) to reward the kids for good behavior for the pictures and for cleaning their rooms today. I swear when my kids are grown I will never darken the doorstep of McD's again, that nasty minion of satan.
Posted By: cat03 Re: Sh!t - 10/17/06 05:04 PM
hey girl, hope you are doing good today. Well, so much for men wanting us to be direct, I hope your H is able to tell you what he wants.
Are you reading something? I think it helps to keep our focus, I was skimming "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" awesome book, sometimes I forget what I've learned.

Last sunday we had a bad argument, and even though -speaking the truth- he behaved like an a$$ at some point, I see how I went wrong and how it led to him making me so mad (I angrily asked him--after listing all I do and him telling me 'this is taking hours!',--that is it ok for me to do all the chores and for him to do nothing he made a stupid face and said 'bingo' pointing at me)
I wasn't direct, I keep forgetting to just get to the point without explaing why he should help me (sometimes that is needed but not always, learned that from Mars-Venus book) and the fact that he is adhd also makies him a very short attetion span person.

We need to go back to the basics and polish what we've learned long ago, to respect them without expecting them to earn our respect, to encourage them, to value and thank them for what they do, to praise any gesture so in time it encourages them to keep it up and so they feel we do value them.

Serenity now, ish!!!

I hear you about McDonalds, my kids love that place, I make sure I eat a sandwich at home before we go and I bring my bottle of SlimFast while we are there I just can't stomach their burgers... now, the apple pie, well...
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Sh!t - 10/21/06 03:02 PM
Hi guys,

Met with MC this week - thank GOD for her, I always feel better when we go even if it all goes to hell the minute we leave - and hammered out more feelings, etc. Still have the Action Plan, but since we only did ONE out of five/H feels like those are all things HE has to do and therefore unconsiously resistant (or something), we are going to concentrate on ONE at a time. The one thing we DID do was spend time together as a family. This is actually not as lame as it sounds b/c in our former life we would just pass the kids off to each other and have happy memories with the kids SEPARATELY. This way were creating memories as a whole, and that's good. But we did ZIP on the list past that.

C said that our first priority is to be praying together daily and that's her one thing we HAVE to be doing. H owned the fact that he dropped the ball on that and he really wanted to. He's the perfect H in counseling, NOT that he's insincere but more like he's his best self. He did acknowledge some very real changes in our interaction post-A, such as me not fighting/bucking him on every little thing/opinion he has, and that my general contentious nature has disappeared (which it has) - so that was nice to be acknowledged.

And then we leave and life and busy-ness get in the way of our intentions. Ya'll know.

Um. it's been 3 days since MC and there's not been one community prayer here. My 180s have included NOT nagging him about stuff like that, so I don't -but I may mention it today in passing. We meet with her again on Thursday.

I posted something on the blog that H wrote back in May of this year (on his own, now defunct, blog - his stupid f*cked up parents would read his stuff and then critique him about it. Ugh. He quit writing on it, obviously) that I thought was a really good piece of writing. Anyway it's here if you'd like to see.
Posted By: cat03 Need a few 2x4s - 10/23/06 12:34 AM
arggh!!! I accidentally erased my post, this can't get worse.

BI, anyone, set me straight, I lost it. Im not posting on my thred, I think H is checking it out.

I behaved like an a$$ this weekend, drilled my H about his sex life w/op, insisted he tell me about it, wanted him to tell me that I was better than her, wanted to get the dirt on it and wanted him to make me feel better about it.

Of course he got annoyed and would not tell me a thing, not even to say that he did enjoyed it with me, just told me that we are different people, that it is ackward for me to ask this questions, but will not tell me ANYthing make me feel better. Yes, I'm basically asking how I'm better than her in bed. And no, he refuses to say anything, and I know Iwas acting batty, but I get no extra attention from him, no ILS after all these months, still acts all happy go lucky and doesn't do anthing to make me feel like he wants to make it up to me in any way, no validation, no affection other than in bed, no support whatsoever if he feels I'm in pain.

He tells me he is still not 100% there, that he can't freely give me what I ask (validation, reaffirmation) and in an anger bout told me he still doesn't trust me becaseu I look into his stuff (when i found about the truth about the A). GRRRRRRRRRRRR, I told him I forgave him for waht he did, why can't he do that same, why is my offence as bad as his? he says it is a different kind of violation (his privacy) and he still feels at odds w/me about that.

I will never understand that point of view,I prob should speack to my C. I know I shouldn't have pushed so much and ask such graphic questions, but I'm loosing it since I feel I give so much and he is focusing on hisjob and doesn't think he is ready to give to me, I'm damn SICK and tired of this sh*t, yes, i'm really mad, I don't curse, but damn it, he just doesn't try. Sure one or 2 things have changed, but if I have a prob about something he feels that he if "backs down" i'll find something else to
"bother him" about, that when I ask him to understnad and take action or do something for me even though he doesn't truly agree w/it that I'm manipulating him, if he doesn't agree with it and I want him to cooperate w/me then I'm "telling him waht to do"

How in the heck am I supposed to be loving to a man who acts like I"m the one who left and did crap and who doesn't even try to make me happy. Yes, i'm whining, but I guess it is juts one of those days, I hate this, I hate it w/all my being, married to this man who doesn't love me.

And I think he knwos I read his black book, he sort of mention it,a nd I've only talked about it here, so come tomorrow I'll get a new name.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Need a few 2x4s - 10/23/06 09:15 AM
OMG, cat. you are losing it - you have to pull it together or you will not keep this thing moving forward. Read GH's post from last night (SO good) and the thread in here titled something like STOP! LBS

I of course popped in here about 2 minutes before I have to leave the house for work so that's all I can give you on 2 seconds time.

You have to STOP being so inconsistent with your H. Trust me, I UNDERSTAND your emotions but giving into them when they bubble over is SCREWING UP YOUR LIFE. you KNOW this.

more later.
Posted By: twist_of_fate Re: Need a few 2x4s - 10/25/06 06:31 PM
Hey BI, I've been "beemed donw" from the crazy mother ship and feeling more sane than ever.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread but I knew you'd helped me, directing me to the threads you listed did the trick

Quote:

Um. it's been 3 days since MC and there's not been one community prayer here.



What I'd give for my H to be in agreement to prayer. Does he rebuff you when you ask to pray or are you waiting for him to make the first move?
I have a similar prob w/the kids and a devotional time I want to have w/them, they aren't used to it and since i'm not either (w/them, I do have time aby myself for my personal devotional) before we know it it's bedtime and it is too late, I really have to make time and make it a priority.

When do you ideally want to pray w/him, did you agree on a time? maybe the time you want to hold prayer isnt' good for him (too early, too late?)

Anyways, hope you have a good C session on T))))))))))
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Need a few 2x4s - 10/29/06 10:18 AM
Hey friends,
I have had my energy sucked out of me this weekend, headed to work now. cat, we did pray together for a few nights and then this weekend went completely to hell in a handbasket in several areas. ugh. NONE of my design, I am happy to report, but still a bunch of bad crap. Will update when I can! Miss ya'll. Do check the blog, I did get a chance to post about H's FOO issues finally.

oh PS, a funny-to-me thing. OW's city was in the news for a few days last week and H made a comment about it, and I said I had seen that and thought about her, and H said "and she's in her house like nothing ever happened. b*tch. fcuking b*tch" I almost fell over. He never brings her up, and he certainly has never said anything like that about her. My inner-nasty-redneck was pleased.
Posted By: JokerMan Re: Need a few 2x4s - 10/30/06 04:40 AM
****My inner-nasty-redneck was pleased.

Aw I can relate to the redneck part. Bless your pea-picking heart.
Posted By: aid Re: Need a few 2x4s - 11/05/06 10:55 PM
BI,
I love the action plan. H and I are also in MC and we have similar action steps, but not quite a plan like that. But for us, our issues go deeper becaseu H doesn't seem to be able to stay away from OW for long periods of time and MC and I are thinking there may be some additioanl issues going on with him that need exploring. But for a rational person, which it sounds like your H might be, that's a great plan -- even if you don't stick to it completely.

Hey JM,
I was just askign about you on another post. I haven't seen your name on the board in a while (this is aidandylan... I changed my screen name because i was afraid H would see and figure out my name).

I would love it if you could stop by my thread Breaking the OP Addiction .

Sorry for the hijack.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Dealbreakers - 11/06/06 03:10 AM
I have been lurking and catching up on everyone's posts and keeping up with my blog, but haven't had the time - or frankly the emotional energy - to update here.

The Action Plan is dead in the road. We did one thing on the list for the first 2 weeks, and when we met with MC that next time, she told H to try to tackle one at a time and perhaps slowing down would make them easier for him. (DRAMATIC SIGH FROM ME. WHATEVER.)

She said, rightfully so, that the prayer was most important. So, for the most part, we have been praying at night together. We see MC tomorrow and it's been a month since this Action Plan was put into effect. I'm not knocking prayer, so forgive me Lord if You think so, but I am bummed out by the lack of decent forward movement and have been less encouraged as time goes on. Perhaps this is due to me wishing I was piecing like ToughLover is, everything they are doing is what I want to be doing - based my Action Plan requests on what he and his W are doing. This one thing at a time deal is rankling to me. Shame on me, I'm a selfish b!tch today maybe.

And I'm getting ZERO in my one Dealbreaker area: coming to bed at the same time, and sex. ZERO. He's still saying goodnight to me and going downstairs to all hours. No, there's not porn or any wacky sh!t going on, just a general AVOIDANCE of ME. I cannot tell you how many times I've told him (and also in MC) that this is where the rubber hits the road for me. It was going on pre-A, but even though it made me miserable, I tolerated it. And I also thought it was b/c of his then-highly-demanding job. Well, there's no busy job anymore, but he will now find reasons to keep himself 'needing' to do this or that. Garbage. I told him post-A that this is something I will not tolerate anymore, a sexless M and a H who will not come to bed at the same time. That it feels like a big fat rejection, lack-of-reassurance, and flat-out disrespectful/can't-be-bothered when he does this. EVERY DAY. I told him tonight that this is the ONE thing I've asked for, the most important thing to me right now (somewhat b/c of the A, but mostly b/c I seem to be a man in a chick's body, b/c I feel connected and more open/intimate AFTER sex. He's like the girl, who wants to feel inimate/open BEFORE he's willing to have it.) You know, what-the-fcuk-ever. I'm about done over it. We have a C appt tomorrow a.m., and if some sh!t doesn't get resolved I am close to giving up.

Sorry if this seems lame and stupid to anyone out there. But, hell, the man cannot even tell me he loves me NOR will he ML to me or spend much time with me. All of this on the heels of an A is just about a Dealbreaker for me. If you had it for her, you can fcuking rally for me.

I have changed a lot, I realize there is more to do, but my basic CONTENTIOUS nature is GONE. He runs up against NO resistance in his life about parenting, finances, decisions he makes. NOTHING. I mean, I'm no doormat, as ya'll can guess, we do discuss things, but I argued with him and 2nd-guessed everything he did pre-bomb. Everything. Emasculating, and wrong. He has NONE of that now. And he's acknowledged that. So - pat, pat - I will pat my back there, but it's not enough. We haven't met each other's core needs and I don't trust that we ever will.

The most one-on-one time he gives me is when we are arguing about our R.

I find this whole deal sad and ridiculous. Hell, he deserves to be happy too, and if it's not with me, so be it. I'm too tired to go on and on with the details of all that was discussed/argued tonight, but I'll let you know what is discussed tomorrow in MC. Perhaps I can look back on this post in a few weeks/months and laugh that about how stupid it was, but not tonight. Feels pretty hopeless.
Posted By: cat03 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/06/06 02:32 PM
oh sweety, sorry you got such a roadblock in your path))))))))))))))

I almost dare to think that depression is making him unable to give you anything because he himself is empty right now, a well man won't deny himself or his spouse a healthy SL, specially with you making so many changes and being a supportive wife.

Quote:

If you had it for her, you can fcuking rally for me




I remember saying the exact same thing to my H. It tok me a few weeks to remember that men in an A are just escaping reality and drugging themselves w/sex when with the others (op), it's not that the others really made them want sex or that we can't give them what they want. The forbiden-novelty-kind of sex they had is totally different from the loving sex you and I had with our H's pre-bomb. Our love was real not some make-believe endorphin.

Say it with me, "the A wasn't about me" it was about our men being emotionally retarded.

I pray your C session helps, at least he is going, and taking a few items off the action plan might be wise since he doesn't seem to be able to tackle more than one.

Is there an activity both of you can do at night before bed, something the two of you can enjoy?

I've taken the pressure-sex-nooze off my H's neck and our SL is much better now, I am convinced your H must be feelint either depression or anxiety, or even both. Guilt is also an awesome mood killer.

Hang in there hon)))))))))
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/06/06 04:04 PM
Well, I'm on the road to be a WAW, and I apologize to everyone here for throwing out false hope in my sitch. We just cannot (will not?) climb this mountain in front of us. I am so sad today I can't stop crying. But, rightly or wrongly, SOMETHING is going to change finally. I just wish I had better news. I'm not much of a Stander, I only have about 11.5 months into this sitch. It is just too much for me, and this cycling is getting nowhere. My M may be over, but I know I will take the positive changes and use them. For that I cannot be anything but thankful.

Our MC session was me weeping and alternately cussin' mad. H says he doesn't want to separate but is not willing to change what I ask, anything but. And that's my dealbreaker. I just can't blame him anymore. It was half my fault for our M failing and getting to him having an A. We're just unable/unwilling to recover properly. I really admire everyone here, and in Piecing, for their strength thru such a miserable-soul time. I mostly feel I've let people here down, but I'm tired of so much pain and so little progress.
Posted By: MuddleThrough Re: Dealbreakers - 11/06/06 05:03 PM
BI - if there's anyone here that can do this, it's you. It's not about standing, it's about doing. Men like a stable environment - that's why he doesn't want to change anything. Women like to be constantly stimulated. Maybe you need to start setting up little explosive charges all over the place and start him jumping. There's a reason he was attracted to you and all your controlling, critical stuff. I bet a part of it was the challenge of getting you to calm down and be stable. Well, give him that challenge and know for yourself that the only way he'll be able to regain that stability he's seeking is to throw you a bone (so to speak). He knows what the solution is, he just isn't motivated. Light a fire under him. Stop looking up at the mountain (I'm fairly certain that you don't often look down to see just how far you've come) and start looking at the campsite you're both sitting in together and see what you can do to help make it a place to move forward from together.

You can do it. If you want to. Let yourself be who you are, not a box you build around yourself designed in fear.
Posted By: cat03 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/06/06 08:18 PM
wow, now calm down honey, you know you are having a bad day when you take blame for your H's A, that right there tells me you arent thinking well, so don't you rush and make any big decisions right now.

You are not letting any one down, you are having one of those "hit rock-bottom" mars-venus phases us women have when all our emotions just have to come out.

I'm not downplaying your sitch, but you have come way too far and have learned too much to be a WAW, this man actually posts about his A online! for you! my H rather cut his left you know what than to tell the world he did what he did, it can't be over, I refuse to believe that.

Vent, cry, but don't give up just yet. So you mean to tell me your H is just not willing to even considet giving you what you need? did he explain why? is he just not ready or just not compliant to your request?

The only downside of being in this board is that we see others in a higher level, one we wish we could achieve already and it makes us despair a bit.

Come one hon, take a deep breath, calm then, THEN make a decision, give yourself that much.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/07/06 09:20 AM
Quote:

a well man won't deny himself or his spouse a healthy SL




and yet, he did for YEARS. This is not just post-A. This is a good five-year problem in our M. The point is that I'm not willing to take it anymore since he had some healthy sex and strong desire for the OW, and yet came back to the same old pattern with me of NONE.

He pursued me on the sidewalk after MC and said "i don't want you to be done' and I apologized (again), but dammit, I'm not being placated to stay only to have this sh!t ongoing. somebody has to stop this ride so we can get off. (pardon the pun. ha). I told him things have not changed and there doesn't seem to be the motivation TO change this habit and he deserves someone to motivate him, as do I.

I am not going to his parents' house for Thanksgiving (MIL called and left a msg on the machine, which is why it came up); he said we're a family and we should be together and I told him that we will be alternating holidays, for God's sake, we might as well start now. He ended up telling his mother that I am not coming, and now he can deal with all that later. It's a relief to quit acting like everything is fine. it is NOT fine, GD-it.

Even our ever-optimistic MC said that ours was not a M (given our current non-intimacy, QTime together), just good-functioning roommates. Life is too short for this ongoing failure.

Just goes to show you, you never can guess who will be the ones to make it, who will fail.

This train has completely derailed, and will not be stopping at the station.

Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/07/06 02:10 PM
BI,
I know how bad you feel, trust me, I do. Have you read your sign off lately?

Quote:

If it seems slow in coming, wait.
It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3





Patience my friend. That is the word that is consistently used around here. I myself have a very short supply. If you have time, hop over to my thread in Piecing. I have recently gotten some good advice about this very thing. If your H doesn't have it to give right now, there is not much that you can do. Has he given you reasons why he cannot be intimate with you?
Posted By: cat03 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/07/06 04:08 PM
perhaps it is a medical problem and he is too proud/shy to seek treatment? when did your SL started going downhill? Iknow after each kid my drive went downhill, there is gotta be another reason.
Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/10/06 07:41 PM
Hi BI,
I sure hope you are coming back here. I posted this on my thread and will duplicate it here:

Quote:

BI,
I justed posted this question to your H on your blog:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the Husband,
I commend you for staying in your marriage and trying to work things out. My husband has decided to do the same thing. I happen to also feel the same as your wife. I am starving for affection. I want my husband to pursue me, snuggle on the couch with me, reach out and hold my hand, buy me flowers for no reason. For some reason he just can't do this right now and as a result I feel hurt and rejected. Can you offer some insight into how you/he are feeling?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sure our M is healing but I feel so lonely inside. Is this a normal part of the piecing phase? I know that you get what you give and I feel that I am giving, but it feels awkward being affectionate with someone who acts like they don't want you. Unfortunately, this is probably how my H felt for a long time pre-A, I just didn't know how much I was hurting him. Payback is a bitch!




Posted By: JokerMan Re: Dealbreakers - 11/11/06 06:22 AM
First off a slight hijack...Strongbear how are you? Catch me up on your situation!

****a well man won't deny himself or his spouse a healthy SL


I would disagree. If we can be frank here.....I have as much if not more of a sexual drive than I did when I was 15. However even after I left the OW intimacy was tough because there is a psychological part to it. If a guy is just looking to get his groove on, that's one thing. But ML is as much mental as it is physical.

My gut tells me that y'all need to interact mentally. The sexual stuff will follow.

One thing you have to understand though....Affairs are VERY powerful. When you are in a marriage for a while and have the typical problems of marriage, it is a freedom. Not only do you miss the OW but you miss that freedom.

It's not like when you were in college and a relationship did not work out and you move on to someone else. You go back to the thing that drove you to the affair in the first place. (Yes meaning the marriage).

My opinions are myopic so take them with a grain of salt. But the seeds of my affair were planted years ago. Not that I am a victim. I am and was wrong.

My point is that you and your hubby need to "connect" psychologically. There will be ups and downs. But if the mind does not click the body will not either.

Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/11/06 12:20 PM
Hey JM,
Question is; how are YOU? I have been thinking of you often and hoping that you are doing ok. To catch up on my sitch you can go to the Piecing Forum "What to expect".
You can fill me in on yourself there as well. Thanks.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/13/06 02:48 AM
Cat, MB and JM,
Many thanks for your posts and thinking of me during this crap week. I appreciate it. Mama, I sent H your question and will answer you via blog or a post here soon. Cat, thank you my sweet friend for keeping up with me. JM, I can't tell you how nice it is to have you trolling the boards again. Please keep me posted on your CT scan, either here or email. Do share news of the babies! Love me some babies.

Okay, I just composed a monster blog post to answer some of the issues raised from my Dealbreakers post, as well as writing a bit more honestly about what my H IS doing vs. just writing what he is NOT doing, KWIM? Plus all the crap I'm not doing to make him feel safe. Anyway, all that to say, I'm just going to copy/paste it here because I am WIPED. OUT. and (of course) work tomorrow. All italics/bold/underlines are in my blog, but I'm too lazy to re-code the post here for those. Hope you all had a good weekend.

Quote:

I don't even know what to tell you; I am on a roller coaster of hope and despair - much of my own making. The Husband is just empty and has nothing to give me, his whole life imploded for God's sake, and I run around like a little yippy dog wanting more more more. I'm so tired mentally and physically that I just want some comfort here at home, and that's not working for me. I know The Husband cannot fill me up, that only God can, but I still wish for a fix.

It's just been the most exhausting year of my adult life on every level. I turned full-on to the Lord early in this thing, and was comforted by Him, held up in the middle of the ongoing Hell of the affair by Him directly and indirectly (through amazing friends). Since then, it's been a world of busy-ness and emotional torture for me with returning to work fulltime, the kids going to school, and The Husbands's individual destruction/upheaval of his life, and by extension, mine.

I am (overly) concerned about a return to the status quo of Life Pre-Affair, which was nothing worth writing home about, as I've mentioned here before. The Husband's late night habits of staying awake without me, and not being intimate were bad habits for years, which is the most obvious road sign on the way to Things Staying The Same And Not Changing, and therefore how I gauge progress in the marriage. Every day/week/month that goes by with that 'one thing' still the same in our lives, the more panicked I become that we are on the same road to StagnantMarriageton, Unfulfillment, or Adulteryville, and won't be able to find the off-ramp. It's a multi-layered fear, really. Feeds right into my insecurity of being rejected, etc. So I panic, and think The Husband hasn't noticed this non-change and gee, I guess I'd better say something about it, because maybe if I KEEP SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT IT, IT WILL EFFECT A CHANGE. Well, duh. Not. That's nagging, ya'll. But in my panic to find the off-ramp, I nag him about this ONE thing that scares me to death, that I consider to be the road sign into Hell's cul-de-sac. Who wants to move toward THAT? Hey, I'm bitching at you constantly, come over here and love me. Um, no thanks. Who can blame him? Yes, yes, he's wrong about the bed thing longterm, but so too am I - in my way.

So I ride this rodeo bull of my emotions/feelings, which just digs up any good that's been planted and leaves another gaping hole in the ground where something should have been planted, left alone, and allowed to grow roots. Each time I ride these large emotions, our progress is impeded and slowed considerably. But at the same time, I wonder: Will this EVER change? Is he just plodding along with me out of no other choice? He tells me repeatedly that's not true, and I long to believe him. I can't just dismiss this stuff out of my head, although sometimes actually I can.

I admit wanting to leave and be done with it, and in the very next minute thinking that I would not want to live a life without him in it. And the Lord sits on His throne and just shakes His head at me, I'm sure. I feel so lost about the Lord, more far away from Him than I want to be emotionally, because my soul feels a jumbled mess anymore. I have a purpose at work, people value me and need me. I don't feel valued and needed at home. Perhaps The Husband felt much the same way about things when he was working and coming home to the old yucky me. I'm not the same person that I was this time last year, and for that I cannot be anything but grateful, no matter how horribly it came to pass.

I don't think I hold the actual affair over The Husband's head, but I know I do hold what he's not doing since the affair over him. I'm sure it's no way to live, I just had such hope that our relationship would be much further down the road by now than it is. That's my shortcoming in expecting more than I have. I have also been reading about couples who are further along in intimacy, etc. after adultery and it makes me ache. Not that I should be comparing my individual situation to others', but it's hard not to when I'm searching for answers and other stories about successful marriages after infidelity. Sex/intimacy/time would not be the sticking point for me that it is, if we were having it. But perhaps even then I'd find another sticking point. The Husband certainly seems to think so, and he may be right (although I'd like to think he wouldn't be), it's just that this particular problem plagued us pre-affair, and is much more painful to be STILL dealing with post-affair.

Plus, the negative stuff has so much more 'sticking' power than the positive. It seems bigger and stronger and in more abundance than anything good that's happened. (more on that in a future post, since this one is rivaling War and Peace in length already) My fault there for chewing on that bone as well. Grabbing the classifieds to look for an apartment every time I want to run is not good for trust and rebuilding, I realize that. I reach for him and then run away from him -like a yoyo- depending on whether I'm upset or happy, and I've worn him out with it. I do not blame him for being over me and my fat dramas.

I took off my wedding ring, not in any grand gesture actually. I haven't been wearing my diamond for a while now (long story because the stone came from my mother, and I'll perhaps elaborate on those feelings another time), and I take my band off when I go to the gym (NO, get your heads out of the gutter, it's because it's in the way when I lift weights. Not because I'm trolling for gym rats). The last time I took it off, I just forgot to put it back on for several days. Frankly it just didn't seem to be a big deal but The Husband saw the rings in my drawer one day during my recent Dealbreaker mindset and asked if I was going to keep them off. I didn't answer him directly, and I could've just apologized and explained that it wasn't intentional etc. But no. I didn't. Which made it seem - by omission of explanation - that it was part of some Master Plan. That was wrong of me. I implied more sinister motives than I ever intended by my lack of information, than I would have if I had tried outright. Sometimes I cannot process things fast enough to see the end result, and when I hold honest information close to my vest, screw up even more. Hence, the whole wedding band scenario. And did I come right home, put it back on and explain it to The Husband? No. I just left it off for a few more days because I figured I wasn't in a marriage anyway, blah blah. The bull-riding emotional rodeo rides on.

Did The Husband remove his wedding ring? No. Not even during the affair, actually, which falls on both sides of the fence for me (i.e. aw, he never took it off VS. the bastard didn't even take off his ring to screw her. You understand). Way back when, he voiced many times that he would never love me again, wouldn't live in a loveless marriage, wanted to leave me and this trainwreck of a marriage, etc. But. In his defense, since he ended his relationship with her, he still has never removed his ring. Has never voiced anything but his desire to make this marriage work. Even when I've been out the door a handful of times since. Even when I am the first to bring up separation. Even when I say I will not live in a loveless marriage, and many of the same phrases he uttered during that awful time. Even then. He is battered but still standing.

This blog is biased toward my wayward and wind-swept emotions. Hell, my life is biased toward my wayward and wind-swept emotions. It is not objective, nor does it take in The Husband's side of things. Although, good grief, people. How many men would blog about their affair and how it ruined their life because their spouse asked them to? Not many, I'd venture to say. The Husband is a good man. He has grown from this as well. Just because he's not meeting every need I have for a marriage is no reason to beat him when he's down. I say that to myself as well as to you.

As has been revealed to me by a wise man, we both broke our vows, The Husband's lapse was just more public and got all the visible PR. I did not love, honor, or cherish either. My sins were more subtle and less visible to the outside world. Good heavens, how many of us bitch and complain about our spouses? That's so wrong. And you know it. Even if s/he never knows about it, it infects your relationship. It's what happened with The Husband and his friend-turned-lover. And it's what happened to infect my respect for my man before he even turned away. Quitcher bitchin'. Fix your problems before they spin out of control. Even if you're bad-mouthing a little teensy thing, it looks poor. Here's a recent example. I saw a friend in church a few months ago, and her daughters were wearing little matching dresses. I commented how pretty they looked, and she said, "I never should have let their daddy put them in their car seats. He didn't do it right and they are so wrinkled." Damn, woman. Be glad he's helping you by buckling the kids in their seats, you know? But she saw the negative in her man, not the positive. But we've ALL done that. We've ALL disrespected the person closest to us when that is the LAST thing we should be doing. And for GOD'S SAKE, don't bemoan your marriage to a 'friend' of the opposite sex. Just don't. If you can't share the conversation with your spouse and have to hide it, you know it's wrong. Don't even give me your story or justification for doing so. Talk to the hand.

All of this to say, in my roundabout way, there are two sides to every story, marriage, failure. This blog is mostly my side, and biased toward my point of view. It's not an accurate accounting of the things The Husband has done to secure my trust, and move toward me in other ways since the adultery. He takes itty-bitty-bound-up-geisha-steps toward me, due to his own baggage clashing with my own, but he is taking them. He, too, is a different person than you would have met one year ago. He includes me in his life, makes time to talk to me for hours if needed, and makes plans for us to do things together occasionally, as a family and as a couple. I put my caveat on all of his efforts by telling him it's not very often, or you didn't hold my hand, or you only did it because you had to, or you're only here for the children, you see the pattern. My rampant insecurities jump right out of my mouth and splat onto the brand new sprout of a relationship trying to come out of a frozen ground in some fierce wind. If you were that little sprout, would you keep trying so hard? I see my side, yes, because - well, I'm ME. But I do also see his, as much as I can from my selfish cranium-in-rectum position most days.


Posted By: Aud31 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/13/06 04:37 AM
I just want you to know that your ability to put all of this into words is INCREDIBLE, and I am amazed at how much of it sounds as if it could have come straight from my own heart.

My prayers are with you and your family.
Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/13/06 11:42 AM
BI,
Thank you for that post. I can't believe how alike we are. My H is making baby steps and yet I am still not happy. We had a really nice relaxing weekend together; mostly sitting together talking and watching TV. When Saturday came and went with no lovin' I thought to myself, oh well there is always Sunday. Then Sunday night I get a quick hug goodnight and I am ready to call it quits. I want to have a dreaded R talk with him but luckily he fell asleep right away. I go downstairs and think I will write him a note with my dissappointment, but for some reason decided against that.

Your post helped me to see things from his perspective. Thank you so much. Now if I could just learn how to get out of my selfish cranium-in-rectum position long enough for H to want to be with me, wouldn't that be great?
Posted By: MuddleThrough Re: Dealbreakers - 11/13/06 03:22 PM
BI - hang in there. It's clear to me that you are fighting an internal fight - something that's playing out in your relationship. The state of your marriage is a safe place to play this out, and you instinctively know this so you project things onto the relationship that you are trying to address within yourself. The trouble is that it's a rather convenient place to place blame for your own lack of happiness. Even though it's not what you want it to be *yet* it does not stand in the way of your happiness. Own the issues you see personally, but look to the positives that do exist in your relationship as a product of the relationship. It is your responsibility to maintain a positive image of the relationship (no matter the state of the relationship - and this does not mean ignoring this) in your emotional reality.

Your statements about how people don't maintain the cherishing state of mind when it comes to their spouse is evidence of the way we generally regard ourselves. We are always pushing to be perfect yet we aren't - to keep up with the artificial standards imposed upon us (that we accept rather) by the media and out culture at large. We defend ourselves, but all too often we find an outlet for this self hate in the criticism of our spouse and we don't extend them the same courtesy of forgivness we do ourselves. As you stated far more eloquently than I could, it doesn't do us any good to be critical and talk behind our spouse's back. It poisons our relationship (because what you practice you eventually become) and it never truly relieves us of the pain that our constant failure causes. A happy person doesn't try and fix the issues that seem to cause the fear of failure - rather they fight the fear itself. This prevents the fear from controlling them and they are free to nurture the good that exists within them.

You seem to be so focused on an external fix - whether it be God, your husband, your marriage - to address your yearnings. I think all of these things will be wonderful parts of your life once you accept the uncertainty of the situation. Can you strip away the years of conditioning and look at the relationship as you would have the first day you were together? Look for all the new things there are to learn about your H, and do so in a positive way? Even if it seems so rediculously negative, can you see something in him to appreciate (just for yourself)? Can you find something that teaches you a little more about yourself? You've got a great idea of what your fixed marriage will be like, of how you can measure your progress. Now think about what the "fixed" BI will be like. How she'll act, think, feel. How will you measure your steps toward success? How far along are you? Are you the whole that will be half of this fixed marriage yet? I know you have made some great progress - the fact that you're aware of your insecurities, that you're secure in yourself enough to admit you're insecure is great in itself. Just keep plugging along and you will make it, I know it, you know it. It's just frustrating, and human nature makes you believe that things shouldn't be the way they are. Look deep in your soul and ask God - I think you'll find that every step you took was meant to be, and there is so much good where you are that you are just ignoring.

As for your marriage: change something, one little thing. You said that there was a shoot of new growth. Nourish this, love it. If you do this, rather than criticise the fact that it's not yet a tree, you will find growth, positivity and happiness in it. That change that you provide can be the thing that your H finds refreshing and will be something he can fixate on to prove to himself that he made the right choice in staying. Thanks for posting and letting us know how everything is going.
Posted By: cat03 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/13/06 08:52 PM
Quote:

But if the mind does not click the body will not either.




I agree JK, though what I meant was that a well (physically and MENTALLY) man won't deny his wife.
I was thinking more of depression. My H also didnt' want to ML for a long time after he came back because he said he felt guilt and it didnt' feel the same, on the latter, guess he, like me, was hoping we'd pick up where we left off when were were having NO problems at all, the "ideal" SL, which wasn't the fact when he left our home.

Hey BI, just wanted to tell you you are in my prayers, hope you get some rest babes, I know you'd think things better after a while))))))))
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/14/06 06:11 PM
Cat, MB, and Muddle, Thank you guys for stopping in and checking on me often. I appreciate you (even if your spouses don't!)

Will post more in reply tonight or tomorrow, but wanted to share with you guys H's reply to my blog post. I linked him to it and he read it and replied that night. We've not spoken about it yet, but I think that may be coming tonight. Still haven't figured out the Final Answer.

Quote:

I just read it. Lots of commentary. So, what do we do about all of it? Bag it or move forward, knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses and needs. We are at a serious crossroads here, and we need to move in some direction. Either continue and keep on going to counseling and try to make this work, or end it all. You know my stance. But, I cannot continue to keep fighting if you are not willing to help me make this work. I am too tired and beaten down. You are either my partner or you are not. I need to feel like my efforts are important and that they register on your radar screen. That is my hill to die on, so to speak.

I care about you so much. I'm so sorry that my "love" feelings are not here. But, I really beileve the Lord can restore all that is lost. I so trust Him to do that. I know I have my moments about Him, but, in the end, He's really all that both of us have, right? We are without hope unless He can intervene, and I know He wants to.

I am leaving this up to you. If you want to dedicate yourself to making this work then let's do it. Otherwise, let's figure out how we can end this without devastating [D7 and S5], if that is possible. If you want to leave, and really see no hope, then I have to let you go. Not what I want, but, as I said, we have to go in some direction here and not hang here in the limbo that is killing both of us.

What is it going to be? I am me and you are you. We need [MC]'s help to find common ground. If you don't think this can happen then you need to be doing what you need to do. I will never judge you for anything you decide. I know that the affair has thrown you into a terrible state of mind, and I know some couples do not come back from something like this. But I have tried so hard to build your trust and do the things you have asked. I am tired of being beaten down and having caveats placed on all of my attepts. It is unfair. I believe I am much further along towards moving to you than you give me credit for. That hurts, since my primary goal is to make our marriage great and godly and safe for each of us.

So, what's it going to be?


Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/15/06 02:19 PM
Whoa! BI, stop pushing him away. He is truly trying, IMHO. Just because it is not on the time table that we would like it to be does not make it bad. Have to rush off to work, but will be back!
Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/17/06 03:07 PM
Hi Believing,
I hope you have time to update today. I was also wondering if your H had a chance to answer my question on your blog.
Posted By: believing_isaiah43 Re: Dealbreakers - 11/18/06 01:20 AM
I posted this over on Mama's thread in Piecing, thought I'd slap it up here too.
Quote:

A-f*ing-men, Mama:
Quote:


It seems so unfair that I have to work so hard to "win" back my H's love when he was the one that betrayed me. I guess I am having a hard time letting go of that betrayal. In a perfect world he would be the one trying to win back MY love.





Perhaps this is why I'm dropping the ball on Piecing. I was so much more together and focused on the 'goal' during the A, of saving my M. In the dead-middle of the crisis, I can rise to the occasion. With years and years of mediocrity and disappointment looming in the future, I am now ready to leave. Nobody wins really. (Except maybe GH - I've quit reading his thread b/c it's become painful to me)

I think I only changed so much, and then I just stopped. "i refuse to move any more until you come over here"-kind of mentality. He feels only conditionally accepted by me, so he's quit moving toward me as well. And here we sit. As miserable as I have ever been as an adult. The worst year of my life - you all can relate.




In other news, I got a flu shot yesterday which promptly made me sicker than hell! Ugh - fever of 102 all day today. Finally broken, but wiped me out. No more flu shots for me, that was awful.

The inlaws are coming tomorrow for D7's ballet recital, ugh. dreading it. (the inlaws, not the recital!) they know something's not right b/c I'm not coming for Thanksgiving next week with H and kids. Hope they'll just leave it alone.

Like Mama, I feel the H is here only for the kids and our financial situation. We've ML only 3 times this YEAR, and sadly that's a banner year for us in the last 5. What kind of marriage is THAT? none, in my opinion. He's a great roommate and friend, but I want a husband. I know he can be one, he just chooses not to be. PLUS. our sitch is different from most here in that H LOST HIS JOB b/c of the A. Either of those separately would be hard enough to deal with, but together it's a hole he cannot emotionally climb out of. And I'm not able to 'support' him like I should b/c, hell, the man hurt me, betrayed me, and our entire life savings is wiped out and we had to do a debt consolidation thing this week to avoid bankruptcy. Of course he's not feeling like some manly stud. This year has been the Fourth Circle of Hell, for God's sake.

I just don't see this being saved, not to the level of a M I want for my life. Sure, I can sit in this M and just turn off my desire for intimacy and passion, and live with this roommate. Puh-leez. That's what I've BEEN doing for years. and then this man goes and has an A. The hell with that. I have the high sex drive and HE goes and has an A, and then comes back and STILL avoids me? Fcuk that. Oh, I riled myself up again. Deep breathing.

I know I'm still doing things wrong. I know I should trust God to turn this around. But sh!t, ya'll. God has left us in this crappy M for years, and the A is just an added twist of the knife to it all. I feel like I'm losing my religion, to quote R.E.M. Why was the best time of my life BEFORE my marriage? I've been married for almost 11 years, and the first 6 months were the best part. That's a LONG time of falling apart. I just don't see it being restored/repaired to something better because our patterns are not changing post-A.

Maybe I'm just post-fever exhausted. But my hope is dead tonight. So there.
Posted By: Mamabear Re: Dealbreakers - 11/18/06 12:07 PM
Ok, I think you and I and our H's for that matter are all at the same place. A fork in the road so to speak. Road A = we are about to now become a WAS or Road B = we can sit in this M and just turn off our desire for intimacy and passion, and live with this roommate. Or...Road C, which btw is the road I think we should take, we change what isn't working.

Are we putting too much pressure on our H's? You mentioned that your H isn't feeling very "manly" right now after all that has happened this year. My H is undoubtedly feeling the same (we also are in the middle of a debt consolidation in part due to the fact that he spent ungodly amounts of money that we didn't have during the A). They feel guilt for betraying us, they feel like a failure for not being able to provide for their family. How do we build them up and make them feel like a man? A man that loves his wife and wants to ML to her often. That my friend, is the question of the day!
© DivorceBusting.com