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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Caligirl
This isnít working for me anymore . I respect myself enough to let you go and move forward with my life . ( I wouldnít give her anything else she knows why and how you feel )

Please have the horse relocated by this date ____. If the horse is not relocated by this date ____I will relocate it to here ____ and have the bill sent to your address . Thanks ( stick to this if she doesnít take the horse move it )

Even her AP brought up the horse . She knows you'll always be there and sheís using that . Let AP apply the pressure . He sounds like a real gem . Controlling , foul mouthed and issues with his mom . Let it have its own death . Tell her to move the horse no discussion about it . If sheís answers in anger . You no longer reside here please have the horse out by this date .

Keep being dim . Short and to the point . Kids only . When you do exchanges hello and goodbye .Smile and move along .

As far as asking for a D or starting it from your post it still seems as if you put the ball in her court . I wouldnít mention a D. Detach . Have the horse removed . GAL and stay very dim .

Just my opinion from a newbie

Caligirl, not bad for a newbie. smile

The horse situation is problematic. I'm concerned about the financial implications of relocating it and am trying to avoid legal issues in the future if I try to move it. It does feel like the only reason we are still married is because she has a great setup with her horse.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 04:57 PM
Link to Part 1:
Link to Part 2:
Link to Part 3:
Link to Part 4:
Link to Part 5:
Link to Part 6:

Summary to date:
W was unhappy in 2018 and probably a few years earlier about her lack of career advancement, responsibilities of being a mother and wife, and lack of connection in our MR. She became involved in an EA with OM1 (a co-worker) in August 2018. She went to an IC without my knowledge and determined that I was the cause of her unhappiness. BD and IHS in November 2018. I begged, pleaded, and became super husband. She became obsessed with her physical appearance and recapturing her youth. EA with OM1 became a PA. She met OM2 (25 year old pickup artist) in mid-November 2018 has been having a PA with him going on a year. W went deeply underground with her smartphone when I found out and confronted. W met OM3 in March 2019 on an online dating app and is still in an ongoing PA with him as well. W has distanced herself from anyone of strong moral character and primarily interacts with a recently divorced woman that became her BFF last year. W bought her own house and moved out in early April 2019. We have arranged 50/50 custody of our kids, S8 and D5, rotating every few days.

We attended Retrouvaille at the end of September. W genuinely opened up and seemed to put forth effort. That was short-lived and she is back to her WW behavior with the OM. Over the past 2 weeks I've felt about the same each day in that I am ready to move forward with my life. She's had long enough to end her A's. She continues to choose them over me. I want to be with someone that wants to be with me.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Ginger1
I like when a guy needs me and is a little clingy. Shows vulnerability. Thereís a right way of going about it though. You can still be a man even when you want and need your partner

Could you elaborate a bit on the "right way of going about it"? For me, at least, that might be helpful.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 03:06 PM
you have mentioned his being depressed a few times. Is he getting any help for that? It is a very big issue that should be addressed, and seems to be a common theme among WASes.
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Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 01:25 PM
Good Morning bttrfly

I apologize - Godmother nit Grandmother. Thank you for pointing that out.

Iím sorry those old tapes are playing again.

I hope you feel better today.

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Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 01:02 PM

Please start a new thread and link the two together.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 01:00 PM
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Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 12:25 PM
Well I am back
first day he was home I fell flat on my face begging and crying
But the next morning I woke up and started over and we had a very calm day.
And it almost felt like normal but I did my dB and it seemed to work not
That he changed his mind or anything main thing is I wasnít a crazy person all day
Sad that this felt like such a achievement
The ride to camping was bad I was fine but it seemed everything I did irritated him and
He was just being a real jerk but I kept my calm took made deep breaths and we got to the
Glider field. When we got there I almost immediately got a glider ride ,side note it was the most fun I have had in months and was exactly what I needed. The rest of the afternoon was good he didnít seem mad anymore.
We walked around met new people and ran into people we both knew it was good for him to see me as the aviation professional I am ,in general had a good time not prefect just a few small things. We tent camped and I think he was just so surprised that I came and slept in a tent with no complaints he was great on the way home.
He unblocked from Facebook, not friends but I can message him now . He left this morning and I got up early and made his coffee as he left I got a kiss on the cheek.
This isnít over I know I could topple my progress with one freak out so keep your fingers crossed!
Thanks for all your thoughts
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 02:38 AM
Curtis, make like Nike and JUST DO IT. Your W doesnít deserve to hear your thoughts and she wonít care anyway. If you have a plan for your life, make it happen and tell your W only what she needs to know.

Stalking her private messages is creepy, my dude. Just stop. Stop torturing yourself. Donít just drop the rope, cut it. Good luck.
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Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 01:09 AM
thx DnJ and Job - slight correction - it was my Godmother, not my beloved Grandma.

well, perhaps I spoke too soon about jumping back in. One of my gf's and I went bra shopping. What an ordeal. I feel very unhappy with myself. I'm focusing on this being day 4 of no sugar as a positive step to change this and get in shape. Basically all the old exh tapes are running in my head, I feel extremely unattractive and I'm positive no guy will ever want me. Yeah, I know feelings aren't facts but the tapes are running just the same. I'm going to go to bed. Maybe I'll feel better in the morning.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 12:47 AM
Thank you all for the replies and advice. I do appreciate it, even if I sometimes push back and/or don't put it into practice.

I had a good night last night, got together with some of my oldest friends and just leaned on them a little. I'm lucky to have that support.

I started re-reading a few of my books, and the prevailing lesson I'm telling myself is not to panic - so much damage is done by doing things out of panic and fear. So for as uncomfortable and confused I am, I'm telling myself to get through the day, focus on myself, and then see what tomorrow brings.

I do still have a lot of ambivalence in a few areas; for example, NGS would tell me that I'm currently being a classic nice guy, subverting my needs (more clarity on whether or not she's still in this, for example) out of an abundance of consideration for what she's asked for (space). I feel like there has to be some kind of middle ground - I don't need to know the solution or all of the answers; it would just be so meaningful for me to know that she's still here, that she's still in this.

Most everyone I speak to about this tells me "S, you've got needs too, you've been as understanding as one could possibly be about this scenario, it's not unreasonable to ask for more clarity" - although I know that many on here would disagree. I know that my need for this information is coming out of my own insecurity and would simply demonstrate my lack of detachment..but it's tough. Every day is tough, when there's no communication and no insight and on and on.

I know, detach. GAL. I'm mostly just venting.

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Surviving the Big D
10/19/19 11:40 PM
True for top tier acts, but thereís so much good music being played out there at venues that range from $10 -$40. Go hear some new music!
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 11:31 PM
I like when a guy needs me and is a little clingy. Shows vulnerability. Thereís a right way of going about it though. You can still be a man even when you want and need your partner
53 1,715 Read More
For Newcomers
10/19/19 11:22 PM
Hey all -

I think itís probably time for me to move off this board and over to Surviving the Big D. Iíll have an update the next few days but my situation has transitioned that way and I think posting on this board is not as appropriate. Will link from here when I set up a new thread, hope some of you can stop by! Iíll pop in here from time to time also.
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 11:21 PM
Having a rough day. I've worked the past two nights and haven't slept well between shifts so that's probably part of it.

The other day, I posted about packing up some of his stuff that was still boxed up with the rest of our mutual belongings and leaving it for him for when he came over to take the dogs out. I thought I was being strong and letting go by "helping" him complete the move-out process. When I got home in the morning, the box was gone. He didn't say anything to me about it. I tried not to have expectations of some contact, but I was disappointed nonetheless. Like it really got to me. I know I'm supposed to not believe anything he says and only half of what he does. Well, he's not saying anything and everything he's doing is continuing to pull away/distance himself. I feel that hope of reconciliation slipping away from me.

I'm assuming the advice to not contact him, let him initiate contact still stands? Has anyone else experienced this--where your spouse just doesn't reach out at all?
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 10:18 PM
Ovr, just a needy clingy thing. Not sure much needing. I'll type more from my pc later.
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Surviving the Big D
10/19/19 10:11 PM
Thatís about a whole lot more than a picture being turned around which is what I was commenting on. Sounds like things have been building for a long time Ginger and this was just the straw that broke the camelís back. If you were a guy, I would wonder if you had NGS. Since my life came crashing down, I made a promise to myself. I promised myself that if something happened that I didnít agree with or someone asked me to do something that I didnít want to do, I would deal with those things in the moment. In other words, if it is not worth bringing up and dealing with in the moment, then it would not be worth bringing up or dealing with later on. Resentment breeds more resentment. Your dad sounds like he can be tough to deal with and that you have put your own needs/opinions aside to keep the peace or just to avoid any drama. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes it really is the best thing to do... in other words, the resulting upset would not be worth it. Not everything has to be confronted...sometimes we can just accept an move on. But if we choose to do that, then we really have to move on and not add it to a list of resentments. I donít know how much of that you do. All I know is what you write on this board. I may have things completely wrong or be missing a lot of information. My challenge to you would be to look in the mirror and ask yourself how much have you been holding onto resentments in place of actually telling him how you feel. It doesnít really matter if it would have an affect on him or not. The important thing is that you speak your truth and establish the boundaries that you need to for your own peace of mind. I feel for you. These family dynamics are not easy. (((HUGS)))
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 10:06 PM
Had a nice day. Gig was good. My friend was playing so was nice to catch up. He knows W quite well. He is sad but again commented that I looked well considering waht was happening. He congratulated me on working through therapy and sorting out my problems, and said we should meet up in London soon. He also agrees that whilst what I did was wrong, it is not worth D and he thinks W has chucked something away more valuable than she thinks.

Weirdly we realised one of the trumpet players also used to play in our youth orchestra when we were younger, so we all had a good chat in the break and went to the pub together for dinner before the gig.

Extra weird thing. My ex-girlfriend was playing in the orchestra, AND her mum too! What are the chances!?!
I haven't seen her for over 10 years. She still looks pretty - she's 33 now, married with 2 kids, lives in London. Old me would have timidly said hi in passing, and that's it. Instead, I just walked up to her, said a big hello and gave her a hug. I was confident, bright and breezy, made a few jokes, asked about how she was doing etc., and I didn't feel nervous. I just talked, and at the end when everyone was packing up and leaving, we had a another brief chat with her mum about how well the concert went. We both said it was lovely to see each other and that was that.

Do I miss W? Yes - we would have done this gig together. I imagined her chipping in the conversation with my old buddies here and there and everyone getting along. Sad she wasn't there - we used to do lots of concerts together. But then I turned my attention to the fact that I should be GALing, and promptly got back on that horse.

So a good day overall - got to speak to people I hadn't seen for literally a decade, was confident throughout, played well, had a nice time, and got home before 10pm.
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by curtis7

After she ran back to OM3, I gathered some intel. Here are excerpts of WW's text exchange with OM3 the day after RV.
OM3: You F'n liar, you never cared about me.
WW: I do. But doesn't matter actually. It matters how you feel. And I guess I don't make you feel loved. I'm sorry for that.
OM3: I regret anything I ever told you that matters to me! My daughters name, why me and my mom don't talk, any and everything! Because you don't give a F! You showed it Saturday and you opened my eyes, thank you.
WW: Wow. That hurts...okay.
OM3: My XW was at least woman enough to tell me she was f'n someone else! Unlike you, making up s***! I've never been s*** to you. I want to die and just be gone from here. You will be the last person to ever hurt me.
WW: Please don't. You will never be nothing to me.
OM3: I'll F XW before I F you again.
WW: Well you never got over her anyway
OM3: G F yourself b****. Don't confuse me for you and Curtis. Again. Still can't admit it. I hope your life goes to hell.
OM3: F you WW! You proved what I was to you Saturday! Deny it all you want, Curtis owns your heart! Curtis wasn't coaching 17 straight hours you MF whore. I'm going to [explicit, explicit, explicit] another b**** and I promise I'm going to send you pictures.
OM3: Disappear from my life you piece of s****!!! I've never ever regretted anyone!!! But I regret you!
WW: Yessir if that is what you want
OM3: Everything I ever told you, I regret it! I regret every picture of my daughter I sent you. I regret you even knowing her name.
OM3: You'll be getting pictures soon. I'm about to line them up. Not just one. You said you'd never hurt me and you did, intentionally! F you, Curtis and his parents, you g'dam slut!
OM3: F you!!!!! F you!!!!! I wish the worst for you! If anyone deserves it, it's you. You deserve s***! That's what you deserve. You deserve to lay in s*** and lose everything. That would make me smile again.
OM3: Look your kids in the face and tell them the only reason they were born was so you could get a f'n horse! Do that. You will hate me and regret me! I told you to never ever cross me.
WW: What purpose would that serve? Hurting children? Doesn't change the fact that I love them.
OM3: Your kids are better off without you. I F'N HATE YOU MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE. Your excuses are beyond ridiculous and you're just pulling s*** out of your a$$.
WW: I have thought that on more than one kids better off without me. Without any help from you.

Wow! That is absolutely terrible the way he talked to her. I read the others advice and it seems right on point. As a woman I can tell you, if I were your WW I would be very confused right now and would panic at losing my safety net. If you just let her walk all over you and she knows you'll be there waiting, she will string you along. Don't let that happen.
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 09:31 PM
Nothing wrong with needing your woman now and again. What are you needing her for?
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 09:28 PM
What is the purpose of texting her every day? Why not get rid of the horse?

How is a divorce going to stop her from crapping all over you?

You might feel better if you quit worrying about her affairs and stopped snooping.
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 09:25 PM

First of sorry you had to read a text exchange with your W and the biggest dueche bag that ever walked the face of the earth.

I am going to make one final plea with you to try DB. No letters, no scripts, no asset list and start simple. Make it clear with her by ACTIONS that you're done with the BS. Ask her to remove the horse from your house and absolutely no contact that doesn't involve the kids. BTW once a day is too much in my book. You also have to stop snooping.

The problem you are having right now is you are trying to force everything. You tried forcing her to stop her affairs, forced her to go to Retrouvaille and now you want to force her to make a choice. It's nor surprising at all that you failed at all these attempts. She's not ready to comeback. She's even told you that but you don't listen very well.

If you're done I totally get it. No pleas, letters, grand jestures, deals, ultimatiums. Just do it.

I can promise you if you ask her to come home and work on the M you will get kicked in the b@lls so hard you'll never get up.

Just remember that you can always pull the D papers back.
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Surviving the Big D
10/19/19 09:15 PM
I think we cross posted juju. I wish I could talk to him about all of this. But I canít. He gets angry and defensive and lays on guilt trips and may never have admitted to wrong in his life. Itís an impossible battle. But the resentment is building up. Big time. Iím just going to keep my distance and give the 72 hour rule and if I feel as if I should apologize then, I will.
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Surviving the Big D
10/19/19 09:11 PM
No, he wasnít showing respect to my dead mother. He said he did that for his wife. If he would have said THAT, I would have been more understanding and felt differently. I have a picture of my mom on one bedside table, not visible when you are in bed and one on the other side of my dad and me. And his current wife was my dadís mistress . I never want to feel like I have to take down pictures of my mom when they visit. If that was on the wall, I wouldnít have taken it down. I donít want to be in my own home feeling like I have to hide the only thing that is left of my mom: a picture. My daughter loves that picture and she would have been hurt if she found it as such. Yes, if he was going to do that, he should have made sure it was back around and I didnít have to see that. Iím sorry, I wonít erase my mom to make his wife feel comfortable. And they know what I know, and I was very gracious to this woman from day one, even when my mother was cursing her out. Iíve treated her always with respect and love. I let their issues be their issues. In return , I think I could have a picture out of my mom, just as I do of my dad. What really just upset me was rather than give me a simple apology telling me he didnít know that was going to affect me, he shot back saying he doesnít agree with life decisions of mine but he keeps his mouth shut. And that was a direct reference to the way I parent and keep my house. He got on me again when he came to home because itís not perfect. It isnít a disaster but itís lived in and Iím okay with that. And he said ďyou knew I was coming you could have made it nicerĒ He tries to help with things that he sees important but I do not and then gets mad at me when I donít agree. He has opinions out the wazoo and when people donít agree, everyone is unappreciative ( including other family members) and they have aline ages other people over it. He freaked about a mattress getting rid of in the basement. I told him donít worry about it, Iíll get someone to help me when itís garbage day. Instead he took it out and left it in my driveway. And then it poured. And I told him this is why I wanted to leave it. And this was me being unappreciative. He put a million alexaís around my tiny house. I told him I donít need them. He did it anyways. And they are all going beserk. I got mad at one of them while he was here and he got mad at me. I canít anymore!

Yes, I am frazzled. I wish I could ask for help in the way I need it, he would give it to me without guilt or freaking out. But I canít. So I gave up. but Iíve been thinking if I was wrong ( and we all know I can admit to being wrong) but I donít feel I was. Iíll never sweep my house free of my mom. To make THEM comfortable. Sorry. They got what they wanted, have been happily married for many years while my mother has been in her grave after she went off the deep end with her mental illness by all of this happening . They can show some respect and not have my mother face the wall to make them comfortable

Yes, I do harbor Ill feelings that will never get hashed out. Heís older and stubborn and I know most of the time he has my best interest at heart, but is only capable of helping the way he wants to. He will always be incredibly opinionated and I canít change that.

I even thought about what you guys said and thought about an apology. But it wouldnít be honest. I donít agree with what he did and how he reacted when I confronted him. Iím tired of saying sorry for things I am not truly sorry for. I spend my life doing that just to make others happy and not dislike me.

With all that said I do love my dad. And his wife. I appreciate what they try to do for me, even if it is t what I need. But I donít appreciate the guilt and criticism that comes with it.
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For Newcomers
10/19/19 09:08 PM
I am going to offer you some advice and it is up to you as to whether you want to listen or not. This latest stuff is way too fresh in your mind. Give yourself a few days and allow that pain/hurt to wash over you and then release it. If, after a couple of days, you still feel the way that you do, then you will need to make some tough decisions. Sit down, make a list of pros and cons and then go from there.

Try to remember that actions speak louder than words. I've taken the liberty to change the emails you plan to send. If you do send just one and leave it at that and then give her the time and space to respond back.

"I have come to the realization that you do not want to work on the marriage. This situation isnít working for me anymore. I respect myself enough to let you go and move forward with my life."

I would keep the asset list on hand, but not give it to her unless she's ready to move forward with a divorce. Keep your cards close to the vest for now. You want to keep things simple, but straight forward at this time.

Enjoy the party this evening.
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