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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Originally Posted by BenB
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you meant that but sorry for jumping to that conclusion.


No I was a bit harsh in my response. I didn't mean it like that, but it came out bad. I just wanted to make sure you were protected from all angles. again, my apologies.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you meant that but sorry for jumping to that conclusion.
29 489 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
My apologies if it came off that way.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
"date" = "doing an activity with one woman" (With possible intentions of intimacy)

Your single time will most likely be brief. Enjoy it.

Yeah, it's going to be tough to go a year. I'm not looking to not be single but I don't want to not date, and I can't see a reason I would hold off for myself (i.e. I would be holding off for (X)W). I enjoy it and it doesn't feel like it's that difficult (am getting some subtle nudges from people already).
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
If you are seriously questioning my honesty here, don´t bother posting on my thread again. What reason would I have to not tell the truth? Do you just read posts here assuming the worst in people? If you have been reading my threads from the beginning I have been clear about this. We drafted an agreement stating that she gets that amount provided that she doesn´t claim the apartment. She has asked for money several times, not just these two times. It´s gotten to the point where I had to say something.

Since I don´t have time writing every single detail, I wrote a shorter version. What I wrote in the previous post is copy paste from my messenger conversation with her.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Originally Posted by LH19
I think you need to define what you mean by outreach.

How will I know if her communications/asks are a subtle way to get back into an R. I don't expect that she's going to say "Hey, I made a mistake, let's see a counselor" but I don't to read into anything else, including interpreted tone in texts/emails.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Originally Posted by BenB
What a strange comment. This is how our exchange was after I told her I need her to change address -

Sent October 16, 2020

W: why do I have to change address now?

Me: Because that is why I´m paying you this money. In the agreement I wrote that you will get that money if you don´t claim the apartment. By changing your address with the tax office you are giving up your right to do so.

W: Is that allowed? Should we not wait until after these 5 months are up?

Me: It´s actually not allowed what you are doing now. You are required by law to change your address with the tax office if you don´t live here anymore.

W: Ah okey, I´ll do that now then


Thank you, yes I got what I wanted. And I have absolutely no regrets. My courts will most certainly not have any issues with how I handled this. Even if she wasn´t informed of the consequences there wouldn´t have been any problems for me. Things work different here. It is her responsibility to find out what her rights are here. But that said, as you can see, she was well informed before agreeing to change her address.



if you say so.
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Midlife Crisis
2 hours ago
Thank you Job smile
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Not much exciting to update.

WW still living somewhere else, going on 5 weeks now. Last in person talk was 1.5 weeks ago when she mentioned the idea of moving back in. Been in NC still, just few text exchanges on "business" stuff. Maybe WW was trying to run into me at home last couple of times, but I was not home.

Part of me wants to call her out on the affair and lies when we talk, but I feel like that's not the right DB approach. Not sure if this comes off as me being a doormat. Trying to find the right balance to handle the affair and lies. Part of my 180 was not to be angry, and throw around my "power" of ownership - I know, childish... so I have been not escalating any discussions, and being polite if she needs to come home to grab stuff.

Started reading No More Mr Nice Guy, but after the first chapter, I feel like it doesn't apply to me as much. I've always been argumentative and confrontational (if you read my back story). I'll keep reading the book, maybe I can still pick up some bits and pieces of how to be strong and respectful.

For now, continuing NC and giving her time and space. Been enjoying time alone, starting to find that I can appreciate the moment much more when I'm by myself and have time to think.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
What a strange comment. This is how our exchange was after I told her I need her to change address -

Sent October 16, 2020

W: why do I have to change address now?

Me: Because that is why I´m paying you this money. In the agreement I wrote that you will get that money if you don´t claim the apartment. By changing your address with the tax office you are giving up your right to do so.

W: Is that allowed? Should we not wait until after these 5 months are up?

Me: It´s actually not allowed what you are doing now. You are required by law to change your address with the tax office if you don´t live here anymore.

W: Ah okey, I´ll do that now then


Thank you, yes I got what I wanted. And I have absolutely no regrets. My courts will most certainly not have any issues with how I handled this. Even if she wasn´t informed of the consequences there wouldn´t have been any problems for me. Things work different here. It is her responsibility to find out what her rights are here. But that said, as you can see, she was well informed before agreeing to change her address.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
I think you need to define what you mean by outreach.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
I agree with Jac. Ben, you've got to quit rescuing her. She's 34 years old!!! She fired you as husband, she has relieved you of your responsibilities to her. Just leave her to figure out her issues. If she has to suffer a little because of her choices then so be it.

Also I think you did the right thing in refusing to let her come by for a cake-eating visit.


Originally Posted by BenB
Journal -

There has been no communication since the last message from W. As we are getting close to the end of the year, I realize that the apartment I´ve sorted for her is not for that much longer. So I have a question to the vets here -

Just to remind everyone of my sitch - I have a prenup which means W gets nothing once we are divorced. However, I can´t protect the apartment with a prenup due to local laws. They will give it to whoever needs it the most. Since I make a lot more money than her, they would say that I can afford to buy a new one instead of keeping this. So I wrote a separate agreement before we got married stating that if she doesn´t claim this apartment, I will give her approx 15.000 USD cash.

The day she moved out I told her I would wire her the money in a few days to which she said she doesn´t want them yet, she is worried she might spend them(wise decision, I believe she would have spent them too). So I only wired her a small amount so she can buy basic things for the new apartment. As for the apartment itself, it costs me about the same, around 15.000 USD which wasn´t in the agreement that I would pay but I did it anyway just to get rid of her. She has it until February 29. Last week she messaged me and asked if she could get another small amount from the divorce money I owe her to which I said yes, but I need her to legally change her address with the tax office. Once she has done that, she can no longer claim the apartment I live in now. She questioned it at first, asking if she shouldn´t wait until end of February but I told her I can´t wire any more money until she has done that. A day later I got confirmation that she has changed her address.

This means she can no longer claim the apartment or demand to move back in. However, I know it´s IMPOSSIBLE to find a rental apartment in our city. She doesn´t have the money to buy one either. So I have a feeling she will be reaching out when it´s getting closer. What would the recommendation be? I don´t know what she will do. She has two friends she knows well enough but they live with their boyfriends so she can´t move in there. Her only option is to find a guy to move in with and that is not something she would want. Not in such short time.

Obviously I can´t have her move back in here but if it comes to the point where she has absolutely nowhere else to go, I´m not sure I can be cold enough to let her end up on the street. What would you do?


It sounds like you deliberately tricked her to get her to change her address. I doubt you informed her of all the consequences of changing her address.

(spare me the 2X4s folks, I know you will say it's not his responsibility to inform her of the consequences)

Congrats. You get what you want. But I don't know if your courts would see it differently.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Hello, this is my first time posting here.

At the beginning of September my husband of eight years blindsided me by asking for a divorce. He said he’s been unhappy for a long time, and he’s wanted a divorce for a while. He said he tried communicating the issues to me, but I honestly had no clue that the marriage was bothering him. To further complicate things, my husband suffers from combat-related PTSD, and I think I mistook his communication with me as PTSD symptoms—he was very depressed before BD. So instead of taking time for myself, I was trying to give him space from the kids, etc..

As far as I can tell, the major issue is my pregnancy weight gain. We have three kids between the ages of three and six, and I gained about 100 pounds through the three pregnancies. I’ve lost about 45lbs since my youngest was born, but it’s taken three years to get there, and half of that is since BD. I always knew my weight bothered H, but he never really said anything, and I never prioritized myself. The last I heard about my weight was right after the youngest was born, and I thought I was making progress. I was also overweight when we first started dating, which makes things more confusing.

I did not take the divorce news well, and initially did the wrong things, but have completely backed off since about two weeks ago. It seems to me like H has rewritten our entire marriage in his head, and has gone as far as to say he doesn’t like how I do stuff, thinks I’m controlling, etc. He says he likes me, but doesn’t love me, and is not attracted to me.

I actually knew he wasn’t physically attracted to me—he said he was attracted to who I was as a person. But the stuff about me being controlling is baffling. He would never give me any input on anything, just said, “whatever you want,” whenever I tried to talk to him about something. In hindsight, I think he was just agreeing to agree, but perhaps resenting me for agreeing.

We did discuss marriage counseling, and he said he would go, but I got the impression he’s just agreeing like he’s done in the past, so I backed off on that. I kind of think it would be better to go if/when he’s a little more emotionally invested. (He said he would go to give me closure and thought it was a waste of time.)

H does have a (male) best fried that I felt like he was having an emotional affair with—basically reaching out to the friend to discuss marriage issues instead of talking to me, and ultimately doing a lot of stuff with the friend instead of with me. Anytime H needed to run to the store, he’d take his friend (he lives next door), movie nights, bonfires, board games, etc. I wasn’t invited, but the friend was. I would always watch the kids and they’d go next door. This only started two years ago, and got worse as time went on. I told H it felt like his friendship was affecting our marriage, but he’d always laugh at me.

As far as other women go, at this point I don’t have any reason to suspect an affair, but I do think H might be infatuated with someone, based off of a few clues I’ve picked up on. I don’t have solid evidence, but a lot of things line up. His friend had also told me that H felt guilty about being attracted to someone, but didn’t elaborate.

So anyways, about a week after BD, I moved out. H has been the stay home parent since the oldest was a baby, and I did not want to disrupt the kids lives. He was going to move if I didn’t. Since then, I’ve bought my own house about ten minutes from him. I actually got keys yesterday and am working to get stuff for it.

Because of the kids, H and I are still seeing each other all the time, and to be honest, our communication has improved immensely. It’s mostly about kid stuff, but he does occasionally open up about what he’s got going on at the house.

H is also being very kind. He even took the kids to get me a birthday cake and presents. Right now he’s helping me get moved out and is still talking about paperwork, etc. He agreed to file legal separation instead of divorce, but I’m not sure if he’s just agreeing, or if I should take that as sign he’s not 100% out the door. He still wants a divorce, as far as I can tell. He already went to get laser treatment to remove his wedding ring tattoo.

I’d like to think this is fixable, but I’m not finding many success stories related to walkaway spouses. My situation seems slightly better than others I’ve read about, with open communication and such, but I don’t think that means much. He did make a few statements to suggest MLC, but so far none of his actions seem to back that up.

Obviously I need to GAL and work on myself and not care about him... But I’d love advice or insights, if anyone has any. I have more stuff to add, but this is enough for now.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by crdcheck

How do you define "date" in this context? I don't want anything serious but I want to be able to go out with other people. Can you clarify?
"date" = "doing an activity with one woman" (With possible intentions of intimacy)

Your single time will most likely be brief. Enjoy it.
78 1,037 Read More
For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by crdcheck
Why this is important is that, when folks get the standard advice here, they may gravitate to what comes naturally (for example, I already work out, so the advice to work out as a GAL is not applicable).


I really believe it is important for people to focus on the 180's in all kinds of different areas of their life.

I was full GAL when I was bomb dropped. My 180 was to be at home more.


For the introverts, you should learn how to behave more like an extrovert. Be extroverted for a time period. Then when both are natural, you can float anyplace between.


Same for the extrovert, learn to behave like an introvert.

Neither way of being is right or wrong, but life is much easier if you can easily change your behavior depending on the conditions.


Talkers need to learn how to listen well. Listeners need to learn to speak more.

Co-dependents need to learn to be happy alone.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Thanks AS, but I don´t agree about the rescuing. That´s not my intention with what I wrote. In my opinion, that would have been me trying to help her find a permanent residency or something like that. I think what I asked for is a bit more complicated than her having to suffer a little. But never mind, it was an imaginary scenario that most likely won´t happen in the dramatic way I pictured it. She´s no fool so I´m sure she´ll have a better plan than waiting until the last minute to contact me for help.

Yeah of course. No way would I want her in this apartment for that reason. Without even thinking of it probably, she revealed her intentions. When she wrote "maybe just 15 minutes" it was obvious this was just to sooth her anxiety. She didn´t ask to come over to talk for example. She just wanted to see the pug and play family for a moment to help quiet her mind. Maybe even a temp check to see if I was willing to have her over when she needs it and feels down-

The last week or so I´ve felt great being home alone again. I´m so happy I don´t have kids with her. Not seeing her makes it MUCH easier to move on.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago

Quote
I would tell her to respect your privacy and no longer show up unannounced. Then I would change the locks.
This is most likely counter-intuitive on what you feel like doing. The more counter-intuitive it feels, the more likely it is you best action.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
She's got to learn to miss you.
This is also counter-intuitive. Let her miss you.


'We're meant to lose the people we love. How else would we know how important they are to us.' - Mrs. Maple (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button)
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by LH19
You definitely don’t want to see concerts together but the rest of the points look really good.

Yes, of course - I worded that poorly. I'm not sending her anything that's not tactical. Candidly, I really want to say "are you sure?" but know that's a terrible idea. Also, our 10-year anniversary is Nov 14... we may technically make that. Wish I could say something.
Originally Posted by LH19

Just start moving forward in your life and I would suggest waiting a year to date.

How do you define "date" in this context? I don't want anything serious but I want to be able to go out with other people. Can you clarify?
Originally Posted by LH19

As for the phone call one day. Highly unlikely that it will be that straight forward and most likely at least 2 years away.

Hopefully I recognize the outreach. I mean, I'm not giving much of an opening. For example, my parents are taking her (used to be our) dog for Thanksgiving (I have no idea how that happened, waiting for my parents to explain) and W asked me if I would take her for a day between when W takes D4 to her hometown and when my parents come to town. That doesn't feel like outreach to me but could it be? I know, I know - ridiculous. I just don't know what to keep my eyes open for.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Journal entry

Life isn't being very kind to WAH. None of his friends are helping him move, still working 80 hours a week to pay for S, , he doesn't have appliances, is drinking, neighbors are loud, eats out a lot, he's got a lot of stuff and no where to put it, his house smells like wet dog and smoke. He wonders how I moved out so fast but unlike him I had help, lots of it. He took this week off to get moved but it's slow going and he still has to clean too.

These things used to give me hope but now I realize he's high on adrenaline which is heady stuff. I spent 12-18 months in that place when my career took off. It was a rush, the constant phone calls, everyone needing me, wanting me, the raises, the accolades, the power, etc. Loved it.

Back to work...I want to think about why this ended for me.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
BB,

You will have to start a new thread.

I think it's very important to get your son out of those moments, when your WW is acting like she did on Sunday. You should relocate your keys in a spot she can't find. You son should not be subjected to her antics. And if she made declarations in front of your son, about you and him not going to church to benefit her standing in the community, think about what type of message has been communicated to him about church and his parents.

She is way out of control. Stop communicating with her, if she's in the room and won't leave, shrug your shoulders and go your way. (Don't literally shrug your shoulders), but don't give her the benefit of getting a reaction out of you. Stop reacting to her pettiness and childlessness.

Keep up the hard work.

Joejoe
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Kristin, I agree with AS on the lock changing. It doesn't mean you can't let her in if she drops by (if you so choose) but it means she can't crawl into bed with you in the middle of the night and gives you more control over the situation. Do you have a key to her place? If not, then it feels pretty fair for you to have privacy in your own home.

Also, a thought on the texting-- agree with ovr that controlling someone's text messaging especially not knowing what they're up to on their phone is complicated and doesn't look good. (I went through this phase where I was vvv curious what my H was doing on his phone and would hover and kind of try to peek surreptitiously, then always turned out he was texting his brother, or doing the crossword puzzle, etc. I finally decided to stop caring because there was nothing I could do about it anyway and it just made me feel crazy (plus made me look needy and suspicious). Anyway, I don't think you always need to verbally state all your boundaries, and the texting is one. She starts ignoring you and focusing on her phone? Don't reinforce that behavior by sticking around, or trying to talk to her and win her attention-- just leave. She puts the phone down and focuses on you? Maybe I'd reinforce that behavior?
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
CC,

You definitely don’t want to see concerts together but the rest of the points look really good.

Just start moving forward in your life and I would suggest waiting a year to date.

As for the phone call one day. Highly unlikely that it will be that straight forward and most likely at least 2 years away.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
So why do you care what she thinks if it helps you detach?
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For Newcomers
4 hours ago
I did not leave. She eventually begged for forgiveness and felt bad for how she behaved. Tried to make it up to my son by being very loving and affectionate with him.

As far as having a plan, I have already had to walk out of my own bedroom because she wouldn't leave. She claims it is her bedroom too but she eventually leaves and goes to the other room.

I really want to go no contact and communicate only the needs of our children but this drives her crazy.
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