I read the excerpt, sounds like an interesting book. Let's face it, for most men, we are truely simple creatures, feed us, take care of the kids, and MAKE LOVE TO US. As Dr. Laura hints in her excerpt, women tend to make the relationship to complicated. I found it interesting that she says something like this, "Give him thoses three things and he will do ANYTHING for you". We really are so simple!
I am going to have to check out this book, see if it would be worthwile to read and to give to the LD wife. If someone has read it, let me know what you think.
It may sound good to you because it doesn't require any hard work WITHIN yourself. Probably backfire on you in terms of motivating your W though, unless of course she's the type of woman who just wants power and control over you, getting you to behave in a way that suits her, and doesn't really respect you. (Some women are plenty okay with that though and maybe you're married to one. Frankly, I think Dr. Laura is probably one of these women.)
That's the problem with this approach though. It is very disrespectful to men. It leaves men dependent upon women and doesn't encourage personal growth in men. It's as though she thinks men aren't capable of this kind of growth. These men continue to remain in bondage. Dependency is hard to respect. Easy to manipulate and control, but hard to respect.
You want lasting change and motivated desire from your W regarding sex with you? Be independent, be responsible for your OWN self-respect. Behave responsibly and treat others respectfully because it is the right thing to do...period. Love yourself because you know you are worth loving not because you need someone to make you feel loved. Develop real self-esteem...the kind that shows up as quiet confident strength, not the swaggering, fake stuff. Don't expect or wait for her (or anyone else) to set all the conditions up around you so that it is easy for you to be this kind of a person. It's your responsibility to become this kind of person, no one else's. Be this kind of a person and it won't matter what the conditions are around you. I believe that both men and women are fully capable and responsible for becoming this kind of person.
That's the way my H is. That's why I was independently looking for ways to improve my sexual desire. He didn't need to send me links or shove books at me. I want to contribute to his happiness. He is a man I respect. He is a man who stands as a full and complete human being independent of me. He doesn't hold me responsible for his sense of well-being. He is with me because he loves me and respects me and it is a choice, not because he needs me.
Be that kind of person and she'll WANT to keep you in her life. She'll want to do whatever she can to jumpstart her desire. She'll want to contribute to your happiness because it gives her joy to do so, not just to keep you behaving like a good little puppy.
If you're trying to "make" her respect you or you think she just "ought" to respect you, you've started at the wrong end. It starts with you and has nothing to do with her.
I agree with virtually everything you say. There are all great goals to have, and they are mine. But the bad thing is that most of the books I have read, including SSM, will tell you that the result of a wife losing her desire for her man is to damage everything about a mans emotions.
If you look at the needs of a LD female, you will see that just about any close friend can meet those needs, not just her husband. But the HD male has the overwhelming need for a lover. Communication is nice, Time together is nice. But honestly, the qualities in marriage that LD spouse want are appreciated, but they are not LOVE to HD men. It's all physical to us. So how do us HD men make ourselves happy when it takes a love TO make us happy. Guys that CHEAT are MAKING themselve happy, and that appears to be the only way to get happiness.
I read all the posts and everyone made good points. I believe alot of it comes down to respect. I personally have always catered to my husband. I cook almost everyday and am an accomplished cook. I have never witheld sex from him and participated - no spectator sport for us - but sometimes even that wasn't enough for him.
We have a great marriage now (except for the Crohn's LD effect)but in the early years he could really be a pill. He was always angry - and it didn't matter to him that he had all the sex he wanted and a geat dinner cooked - to him the laundry wasn't done or the house didn't look like he wanted or I didn't work blah blah blah.
He has been a tough nut to crack - he grew up with a mom that is very distant to his father - and he can be alot like her. It was almost like if he let down with his emotions it would make him weak.
Now - he is different - he is different with me - I am the same to him - I still cater to him but I do it because I want to not that he demands it. He has never demanded that I just did it.
I think that if you want a loving, caring, response you must be the example of it yourself. He told me the other night he has learned to love me by the way that I love him.
Are you loving, supportive, encouraging with your spouse? Are you interested in her hobbies, activities? Have you made time to take her on special dates? Have you made her dreams come true?
Being married is way harder than dating...it takes more work too. Sometimes you can be as loving and supportive as you can be and still it is not enough. It comes down to respect...Make sure you respect her and make sure she respects YOU. Don't be a doormat for her to walk on though - no respect there but be her partner. Have self esteem - it will do wonders for you.
Quote: So how do us HD men make ourselves happy when it takes a love TO make us happy.
Spend some serious time in self-examination and trying new ways of acting and thinking until you figure it out. No one can tell you the answer. You have to find it for yourself. Stop reading and relying on other people's opinions who say it is up to someone else to make you happy. Challenge yourself to get out of the comfortable zone you've created for yourself where someone else is responsible. Move away from reading things that are just about the importance of sex. Expand your search. Pretend you have no wife and there is no chance of anyone else ever being in the picture, what are you going to do?
Quote: Guys that CHEAT are MAKING themselve happy, and that appears to be the only way to get happiness.
Baloney. Defeatist thinking. No, these are the guys who are stuck in the idea that sex is the only thing that will make them happy. May be true for some. May only be a short-lived happiness though. Even if it's with your wife, it'll still be a temporary, short-lived happiness that requires a continual fix provided by another person.
All, I too heard about the book, late last year..that it was being release New Year's day. I pre-ordered the book and gave my wife an "IOU one book" for the last Hanukah gift...it arrived 12/31/03. She was very excited because Dr. Laura is her hero....but she has not read it yet...in fact it sits on her night stand...the same nightstand where the SSM sit's hidden, unread.
I asked, she said, oh yeah it will be a great book...
Been there done, that. I've sped read the book...not exactly sure I'm completely in agreement. Dr. Laura is big on the woman taking care of her self and being sexy....in my case my DW already does that. My DW doesn't want to deal with my reaction to her. (I think she is the Goddess of all Goddesses!)
So, all in all. Buy the book, Husbands don't read it, no need to have more advise. And give it to your wifes, making sure that you tell her to give you Dr. Laura's follow up book, about Wives.
For my more outspoken clone, CeMar....don't bother, it will just add to your fustration. Plus, The Sex Starved Marriage is a MUCH BETTER Book and Auther!
Respect is a major part of it -- in fact that's one of the chapters. My wife spotted the book while we were shopping at a Sam's Club right after Christmas, and she went ahead and bought it. She's read it, I haven't; all I had a chance to do was scan the table of contents and skim the chapter on sex.
As far as that single chapter goes, it seemed to me to track pretty well with SSM; same message, different phraseology. Yes, it's aimed at wives, although I suspect that a companion volume is in the works.
The rest of the contents (based only on the TOC) appeared similar to some other books I've read, including "His Needs, Her Needs" and "What Husbands Expect of Wives." I guess it shouldn't surprise any of us that we're not alone in the types of conflicts we're having.
As to the subject at hand, things have been better since she read it. I presume she's putting some of the suggestions into practice. Speaking to the exchanges between CeMar and MPT, I'd put it this way: Is it impossible to feel good about yourself when the one person you've vowed to give yourself to doesn't want you? No. Can you maintain high self esteem without the physical intimacy you desperately want and can't get? Yes. HOWEVER, it's a WHOLE lot easier if there's some reciprocation from the wife's side.
As I said, things have been better since my wife read the book. Is she manipulating me, and allowing herself to do so because she had no respect for me? I may be wrong, but I'd say not. On the other hand, if being more affectionate (not meaning sexual), treating me with increased respect and appreciation, being more willing to actually listen to what I want to say, and even being a little more available sexually (only one time other than the monthly schedule, but I'm hopeful), and all in all, behaving more toward me as if I were her husband instead of another one of the kids -- if all that is "manipulating" me, then I say manipulate away!
We're both feeling better about life, each other, and our family, and I'm not going to complain. Sure we've got a long way to go, but I can't expect everything to improve overnight. At the same time, it's easier for me to work on the things I know I ought to when I can feel her supporting me instead of fighting me; the energy I used to spend trying to keep up my self esteem (and occassionally my defenses) is now available for more productive pursuits. Our spouses are the best people to meet certain needs -- some can be met by others, sex we have to deal with -- and we married to get those needs met. Of course, so did our spouses, and we need to do our part.
HERE is Edward Bear, coming downstairs now, bump, bump, bump, on the back of his head, behind Christopher Robin...sometimes he feels that there really is another way [of coming downstairs], if only he could stop bumping for a moment and think of it.
Having married at 28, I did have many years to live life without a lover, before I met my wife. There are lot's of things I can do to make me happy, my job, sports, friends, church, family, literally dozens of things. They make life enjoyable. I would say on a scale of 1-10, my happiness was about a 5-6. What makes is all worthwhile is when I have a lover to share it with. When I had my lover(wife), my happiness jumped to about 10. It all depends on your point of view. I have listened to my wife list all the things she wants in life yet, and she listed everything from above except for PASSION. I want everything that she wants, and the thing that makes it all worthwhile is PASSION. Without the passion, it is a very EMPTY type of love.
Quote: Even if it's with your wife, it'll still be a temporary, short-lived happiness that requires a continual fix provided by another person.
If I was providing all of my own happiness, WHY WOULD I WANT TO BE MARRIED?
Curious, MPT, what makes your happiness completely fulfilled?
