Its over...she filed part 2 - DivorceBusting.com

Part 1 here

This morning she emailed me (no response to my email of course) asking if D and I are going to the class she signed D up for and that she wanted to go too. So I told her we're leaving soon and she could meet us here if she wants to go.

It was like the old times again, except not much talking only D related talk but that same old comfort feeling. When we were almost home (she drove) she asked if we could stop by for breakfast. I said sure if you want to...we went and had breakfast, mostly quiet.

On the way back from the breakfast place there was a guy jogging along the side of the street without his shirt on so she breaks the silence "jeez, put your shirt on already" comment. I didn't say anything.

Bizzare...

She responded:

Of course I still care about you. You are, after all, D's dad and
that will never change. I don't want anything bad to happen to you because then D would lose you. That would be really terrible. At the same time, that doesn't mean that I want to remain married to you. I feel that you can still care about someone without wanting to live with that person. Does that make sense? There are so many things that happened between us over the years, both good and bad. We had a lot of fun together, and we had a lot of fights too. At this point I feel that I can forgive the bad things but it's just too much to completely forget them, as much as I would like to.

I think that we can still do things together with D. She is happy
almost all the time now. She doesn't mind being with one or the other especially since we are not fighting in front of her. That has made a big improvement I think. As much as it's the perfect ideal to have both parents together, it's also the right thing to have a really good, positive environment. I think right now she has that from each of us separately, and when we are together as well.

Ouch. I know it hurts to see her being so matter of fact about the situation. I think this would be the exact response I would get from my H.

By the way, I hate the condescending comments from WAS's when they say, of course I care about you, you are the kids' parent. Urgh!

Keep trying to think of the positive in that if you have a positive relationship for the sake of your D, then that in itself is a triump for your child. Remain hopeful that if there is more interaction with WAS, there is more opportunity for her to see what she is leaving behind. Paint yourself in a very attractive light and always be fun and upbeat when around her!

SR-
I just got done reading a letter I had sent to my H before he came back from our first separation. He had approached me about coming back, and I responded to him in almost the exact same tone. Breaks my heart now. I'm sorry she is not seeing anything clearly. Wish I could shake her and show her what down the road looks like.

I finally finished my letter and sent it to you if you still don't mind looking it over. it's very long and I'm completely terrified to send it.

I think my W could have wrote that e-mail. I'm just a few months behind you on the same train I would say. Detach in a loving way and move on is all that is left, she may change her mind if you do. Show consistancy and no pressure and no pursuing, who knows? I'm in the same sitch, going for breakfast like old friends? She knows you are in her back pocket if she changes her mind at any time, it is a cruel game they play. They get to enjoy the single life and keep us as back up plans. Sorry for the bitterness. Good luck, 4

Ditto-46956

Originally Posted By: 46956

I think my W could have wrote that e-mail. I'm just a few months behind you on the same train I would say. Detach in a loving way and move on is all that is left, she may change her mind if you do. Show consistancy and no pressure and no pursuing, who knows? I'm in the same sitch, going for breakfast like old friends? She knows you are in her back pocket if she changes her mind at any time, it is a cruel game they play. They get to enjoy the single life and keep us as back up plans. Sorry for the bitterness. Good luck, 4

I couldn't agree more. In my sitch, I tried this in the beginning, but 4 has it right. "She knows you are in her back pocket if she changes her mind at any time, it is a cruel game they play. They get to enjoy the single life and keep us as back up plans."

That is not good enough for you. I honestly believe, that in MOST cases (not all) they are simply easing their own transition, on the decision THEY made. THEY made. Not YOU. So why help them?? Do a little test for me........and it's hard with kids, I know. But reduce your contact to ZERO, or as close to that as you can...for one month. Let her be alone. Let her be lonely. Now?? Whenever she's lonely, she can call you for a booster shot..........just try it, even for 2 weeks!! Don't answer/return her calls unless it is child oriented. When you call, ask immediately to speak to your child. If W wants to talk later, say "Gotta Run"

If she wants to go out for supper......Nope, got plans. Wants you to come over for breakfast?? "I'd rather not" If she asks why, say "I'm doing what I need to do to move on" End of story. No other explanation needed or deserved. You might be surprised what happens when she realizes she might REALLY be losing you.

Alaska, you are EXACTLY right.

Alaska, why didn't you give me this advice six months ago? $\:\/$ Who knows, she probably already has someone else for her booster shots and what not by now. She's always gone from one relationship to another without really being on her own and wouldn't surprise me to know she's already got someone. I mean you gotta have either really close buddies or someone else to be able to get up and leave like this. I know I couldn't do it on my own unless I was hipnotized.

In any case, my lawyer emailed me a little bit ago saying he's got the paperwork...so this is permenant.

I need your guys help to move on, I really don't want to keep any hopes for her return. If/when she does I hope I've long moved on...

You can do this. Remember, there is something better coming. You may not see it right now as things are much too dark, but a better life is on it's way. At least you know where you stand, officially, sad as it seems, this must bring a bit of relief. So now you have to figure out how to move on. What Alaska said about cutting out all contact except for in regards to your D is a good idea. You need time to process all of this. You also need to take the time to do whatever it is that you need to do to move on.

I've heard there is life after all of this mess. At the very least, you can close your eyes at night knowing you did everything you could possibly do to save your marriage. Your W cannot and I promise you that she WILL regret it later. What a foolish woman.

If it is really the end then I can't see any harm in following Alaska's advice. It will be better for you anyway not to see her as much, plus she can't jerk your chain for sh#ts and giggles. Time for a little payback SR. Try a web sit called vitalcoaching.com http://www.vitalcoaching.com/dating/formen/break_ups.htm

You might find it helpful. Listen to the sample MP3 and see what you think. Take care 4

Thanks 46956, the website and the sample MP3 sounds promising but how old is this kid Francisco 23? lol

For my own sanity I must believe that it's over. I have to find someone deserving of my love and all that I have to offer...

SR do you want to go through with this? If not, stall, figure out what she's needing from you, give it to her without being in her face about it and stall on the divorce........

It's up to you.

UA, I didn't want to go through with this but she's in the driver's seat. I've tried and tried she wouldn't even tell me what things she doesn't like in me. I don't think she knows or cares she just wants out...how can I do anything if she won't even talk to me about this. Look at the email she sent, it says she's moved on and she's not thinking about me. I've got to start believing this is over and I've got to start taking control of my life. Even if she comes back I'll always fear she could do this again, she's not trustworthy anymore. I don't want to be wrapped around her pinky and worry about every little argument, this is insane.

Here's my last email to her a couple of days ago in response to her's but has she bothered replying or even acknowledging? no. In fact, her lawyer sent the paperwork to my lawyer yesterday.

I understand what you're saying but I don't agree with everything. Forgetting something is different than forgiving something. You don't have to forget, it's not even possible most of the time. However, if you've truly forgiven the bad things then those shouldn't play a part in making the decisions for the future. That's what forgiveness is. When you ask God for forgiveness you're asking Him to forgive your mistakes and not base his decisions for you based on what's already been done.

The fact that there's such a positive environment for D right now is not because we're seperated but because I've worked very very hard to change my behavior. I've made peace with a lot of things. I've learnt to depend on myself for everything; cleaning the house, the kitchen, cooking, the litter box, laudary and most of all taking care of D. Are you saying none of this even matters to you? You talk about the fun times we've had together, why can't we have more of those and none of the fights? We can if you try even a little.

In regard to D, you're quick to mention she's OK with being with either of us but you don't talk about how many times she asks me about you crying, how many times she says she wants to go see mommy, how many times she wants to "wait for mommy", and how many times she asks you she wants to see her daddy. What about me? how many times I wish to see her when she's not here? how many times I want to see her sleep in peace and not wake up distrot wondering which house or room she's in. How many times I wish you were with me when I see two parents hanging out with their kid at the toy store or the park or the mall and the the look on D's face at that time and her cute comments like "he's with mommy and daddy" etc.

I know you don't like me to use your childhood as an example so I'll use mine. What we do in relationships is a learned behavior from our parents. What I did is how I saw my parents, to them the day to day arguments and ups and downs didn't matter. I don't agree with a lot of the things they did and in turn the things that I learnt from them and for that reason I've changed. By the same token what are we teaching D? that we couldn't resolve our issues and in such cases it's OK to just run away leaving your family behind?

I know I can help you with your issues from the past if you decide that it's time to stop running away from them and face them head-on. I promise to be with you every step of the way and I'll never let you lose your balance...

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

Alaska, why didn't you give me this advice six months ago? $\:\/$ Who knows, she probably already has someone else for her booster shots and what not by now. She's always gone from one relationship to another without really being on her own and wouldn't surprise me to know she's already got someone. I mean you gotta have either really close buddies or someone else to be able to get up and leave like this. I know I couldn't do it on my own unless I was hipnotized.

In any case, my lawyer emailed me a little bit ago saying he's got the paperwork...so this is permenant.

I need your guys help to move on, I really don't want to keep any hopes for her return. If/when she does I hope I've long moved on...

LOL, beacause 6 months ago, I'd only been seperated 1 month and didn't have ANY advice to give!!

SR-
How are you doing today? Are you hanging in there? You were right about what you wrote to your wife. I am here for you to help you get through this. YOU CAN DO THIS. If what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, you are going to be one tough dude when this is done. hope you are limiting conversation and contact with her, almost completely. allow yourself to get angry. to get sad. to break something. do whatever it is you need to do to help yourself move on.

you really can get through this. remember, there is something MUCH BETTER on it's way for you.

take care, i'm thinking about you.

I'm surviving...I go through the emotional ups and downs throughout the day. I'm not getting angry for whatever reason. I only have good/fun thoughts to remember from the past.

I'd like to believe there's something much better on it's way but I feel like I'll never meet or find anyone again.

Quote:

I'd like to believe there's something much better on it's way but I feel like I'll never meet or find anyone again.

This is a typical fear that all of us have. Believe that you will someday meet the love of your life if your W does in fact end it. In the meantime, how are you going to meet that person if you are don't continue to work on yourself and be the best person you can possibly be and are irresitable to everyone.

Keep your chin up...

survival is hard. i really feel your pain. i wish you could get angry, seems to make things a bit easier to deal with. you are probably better offin the long run, however, to go through this grieving process as you are. feels a bit worse than if they were to have died - at least in death that person is gone for reasons that are out of anyones control.

i know i am sounding like a downer and kind of morbid, but sometimes all of the cheery advice just doesn't help. sometimes you just need someone to understand. i'm here for ya.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I'm surviving...I go through the emotional ups and downs throughout the day. I'm not getting angry for whatever reason. I only have good/fun thoughts to remember from the past.

I'd like to believe there's something much better on it's way but I feel like I'll never meet or find anyone again.

Oh you will buddy, don't worry about that!!
I'm dating a girl I REALLY like. Distance is a problem........but she thinks I'm SOOOO cool............and as far as sex??? Don't laugh....but she is the FEMALE version of Alaska. We match perfectly there!!! We are both insatiable, but faithfull............nice. Don't worry dude, there are plenty of women around. You probably live in a city with a population bigger than my whole PROVINCE!! If I can do it...........you can too.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I'm surviving...I go through the emotional ups and downs throughout the day. I'm not getting angry for whatever reason. I only have good/fun thoughts to remember from the past.

I'd like to believe there's something much better on it's way but I feel like I'll never meet or find anyone again.

Just noticed you are in Southern California. DUDE!! You have more people in the State of California than my entire COUNTRY of CANADA. And you're worried?? You have got it SO made in the shade!!

Yeah right...like all the fancy CA babes are just waiting to hook up with a guy who's recently divorced and has a kid LOL.

I'm sure I'll meet someone somewhere somehow at some point...right now though with my schedule and the routine life I have 0 opportunities to meet anyone.

Well, I have three kids. Having one kid doesn't make it easier, but three? I just keep thinking, who is going to want that? Especially when the oldest has so many behavior problems?

My W gave me and all the other guys I work with stickers one time that said, "Geeks get chicks." I think these days that's true. So, you've got it going on you big IT geek.

I know what you mean about the schedule. When you're ready I'm sure you'll find the time though.

StupidRomeo,,
I'm so sorry!! I don't know if this is something I should be suggesting or not but a dear friend of mine from 3rd grade, lost contact 8yrs ago, contacted me when we bumped into each other at the court house! She is a God send to me now as I am to her,,her divorce was finalized in Jan 07'. We do a lot of things together now and thats' how I get through another day! My point: rekindle old friendships from school to keep your mind off of the "D"! When you want to phone, text or e-mail your W don't,,do these things to your friends instead,,if they are true friends they will be there for you!! $\:\)$ Keep your chin up!

SR,
Hmmm,,jeez why can't I have an "H" that says all of those beautiful things to me??! Indeed,,,she does NOT have a clue in what she is losing,,,Oh well, her loss, she doesn't deserve you! $\:\/$

Hi SR. Sorry I haven't been by to see what's up for a while, but I got distracted by the events of the Boston gathering.

I wanted to address various bits and pieces of things you've written over the last few posts:

She's always gone from one relationship to another without really being on her own and wouldn't surprise me to know she's already got someone. I mean you gotta have either really close buddies or someone else to be able to get up and leave like this. I know I couldn't do it on my own unless I was hipnotized.

Well, experience and surveying the situations of others here... This is almost certainly true. Uncanny in that my W also is never out of a relationship for very long. Guess that points to some neediness on her part?

In any event, the way I look at it is, and maybe it's different for others, the real decision is, is she coming back or not. If no, then does it exactly matter why?

That said, I know in my case, having a clear picture (as clear as possible anyway, when you know you'll never get the truth out of the WAS) of what happened would be helpful for me in moving on.

The flipside of this, of course, is that knowing the real truth might be even more painful and more of a setback in the healing process. It's a little bit of a minefield to navigate, that's for sure.

In any case, my lawyer emailed me a little bit ago saying he's got the paperwork...so this is permenant.

While I think most here would say the door could always be open a little, the key is that you have to live your life as if what you wrote here is true. Time to start living life for you. As you wrote later on on this thread, perhaps someday she'll see the error of her ways. And maybe you'll have moved on and no longer want her...

I need your guys help to move on, I really don't want to keep any hopes for her return. If/when she does I hope I've long moved on...

Bingo. The biggest thing I see in 'moving on' is to stay active, and start being social again. People kept telling me that, and I kept avoiding it. And when the Boston gathering happened I was terrifed. But I went out, had a blast, and have essentially been on cloud 12 since.

I'm not getting angry for whatever reason. I only have good/fun thoughts to remember from the past.

Seeing this from you makes me a little nervous, although I know exactly what you mean here. I have been the exact same way for the past 7 months. Looking back over my shoulder at what was. Remembering the good. Not getting mad.

Now, looking back I realize two things:

1) Can't live in the past, can't worry about the future (too much). Live for now and live in the moment.

2) Not getting mad is actually bad. Not to be a bloody psychiatrist here, but getting mad is a reaction to having an injustice done. And what bigger injustice than what your W did. In readig about this, people who don't get mad are sometimes the ones who snap. It's like a pressure cooker. Let off the steam a little at a time and it's OK. Keep it in and let it build? Probably not good.

I'd like to believe there's something much better on it's way but I feel like I'll never meet or find anyone again.

Yeah right...like all the fancy CA babes are just waiting to hook up with a guy who's recently divorced and has a kid LOL.

I'm sure I'll meet someone somewhere somehow at some point...right now though with my schedule and the routine life I have 0 opportunities to meet anyone.

In the future, it will be better than it is now. And it's normal to feel you'll not find someone again, "who'd ever want a divorced guy w/ kids...." While those thoughts are normal, most everyone will find someone eventually.

Hope this helps,

Take care,

Get a DB Coach. I highly recommend it.

Also check out the program by Dr Ellen at http://www.lightherfire.com (there's one for men and one for women) I think this program works best if you are somehow living together in the same house. I am sure if your W listens to the program (for women) she will think twice. It should also work somewhat if you see each other once in a while. Otherwise it will improve how you relate to women in general and improve any potential future relationship.
Personally I do not recommend coaching through Dr Ellen I think because she didn't tell me what I wanted to hear but you can email her for some free advice if you like.

I too am going through a separation and a possible divorce. But nothing ever comes close to the person we married to begin with. This much I am sure.
So any help would be most appreciated. Link below:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=957051&page=0&fpart=1

God Bless!

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

Yeah right...like all the fancy CA babes are just waiting to hook up with a guy who's recently divorced and has a kid LOL.

I'm sure I'll meet someone somewhere somehow at some point...right now though with my schedule and the routine life I have 0 opportunities to meet anyone.

Hey, SR....has it ever occurred to you there are some fancy CA babes IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOU?? DIVORCED, KIDS, TROUBLE FINDING/GETTING BACK INTO DATING?? They are in the same boat as you. MAN!! You have 33 million population. If you can't find someone................well.....my province is SMALLER than your state, and we have 1 million..ONE million people. My country only has 33 million, slightly less than your STATE.

Bud, they ARE out there.....just go find them!! Put the word out to your office colleagues, ESPECIALLY THE GIRLS, that you are single and looking............I've joked with girls 2/3 my age in my Town of 2000........"Hey, I'm shopping for a girlfriend...........are you in?" Make it fun.

FUN is attractive. You will have FAR better luck asking girls in your office than guys, because they have such a huge social network. Easy, breezy man.

BUMP

SR-
you out there? just wanted you to know that i am thinking about you...

hi kiki, thanks for thinking about me. I'm here...nothing new to report. Spending this hot weekend with D.

STBXW continues to act like we're good friends. Yesterday before dropping D off she called to ask if I wanted her to pickup breakfast. I said "it's up to you...it doesn't matter either way". She dropped D off kinda late and said "sorry I went to drive thru and they weren't serving b.fast anymore". I said "that's ok it's almost lunch time anyway".

Then she asked me if she could borrow my tools to hang her shower curtain rod and what would be the best way to cut metal tubing...sigh.

As far as me i'm not doing a lot to keep myself entertained...there's a force keeps me from socializing or going to the gym etc but i'm ok just watching tv, doing dishes, cleaning, laundry etc it's exhausting enough...

Originally Posted By: SupidRomeo

...doing dishes, cleaning, laundry etc it's exhausting enough....

I hear that! $\:\)$

haven't seen anything from you in a while... how is your life, your daughter?

what kind of music do you listen to by the way?

Just saw this kiki...funny I was just about to check up on your sitch. Meh things are OK...do you really want to know? OK rant follows:

I'm bored out of my mind. I want company, I want a woman in my life. After one year and no companionship...it's tough. I looked on craigslist.org and good lord...women there only seem interested in how much you make, what you drive and if you look like an A&F model. Is everyone out there so shallow these days? What happened to love, honesty and faithfulness? Makes me mad because I was 24 and I had it all when my wife entrapped me by giving me the illusion that this was forever. She's moved on now and I'm left holding a beggar cup. I'm also thinking about how the divorce is going to set me back 10 years financially, the money I worked so hard for and saved for our future.

Just everything's on my mind lately. Two nights ago I woke up at 3am from a nightmare where I saw my wife having an affair with her boss/friend who's the CIO of her company - he's married to his high-school sweetheart and has a 3 yo D. This happened because someone recently told me that what my wife did was very typical when there's another person involved. Her boss/friend was my first suspect because he's promoted her, given her the raises, gives her time off without her having to notify HR but mostly because he's more successful than me - I've become so insecure about myself. I guess if she did cheat on me then maybe I deserved it because she cheated on her ex-boyfriend with me even if she threw herself at me 3 or 4 times and gave me a story about how he mistreats her and she's not even in love with him and that she's moving into her own place in a few weeks. She finally succeeded because I always liked her as a friend.

Even though it's all over it's not really over. Maybe I'm not as strong as some of the other guys here that have moved on and are doing well. For me to move on I need a girlfriend to take my mind off of things and to start feeling good about myself again.

EDIT: I like all kinds of music, Avril Lavegne, Dido, James Blunt, Shakira, J. Timberlake, Christina Milian, Frankie J etc just depends on the mood - why do you ask?

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I looked on craigslist.org and good lord...women there only seem interested in how much you make, what you drive and if you look like an A&F model. Is everyone out there so shallow these days? What happened to love, honesty and faithfulness?

Well, looking on craigslist.org or hitting the bars makes me think of an old saying, "You'll never catch bass fishing in a herring barrel."

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I'm also thinking about how the divorce is going to set me back 10 years financially, the money I worked so hard for and saved for our future.

Yep...it just sucks and there's nothing you can do about it.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

This happened because someone recently told me that what my wife did was very typical when there's another person involved.

Sadly, I believe that's true.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I guess if she did cheat on me then maybe I deserved it because she cheated on her ex-boyfriend with me even if she threw herself at me 3 or 4 times and gave me a story about how he mistreats her and she's not even in love with him and that she's moving into her own place in a few weeks.

No one deserves to be cheated on. But that having been said, it's worth remembering the old Biblical admonition, "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword". If she is having an A, I'd bet she gave him the same line that worked on you. Remember, if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

For me to move on I need a girlfriend to take my mind off of things and to start feeling good about myself again.

Heard that before...and it's a mistake. Getting a girlfriend is a great way to mask your issues and make you think everything is fine, but it's no solution. Like alcohol, you may forget about your problems and be able to avoid your issues for a while, but when the buzz wears off (that is, when the R with the new GF fades away), you'll find your problems are all still there waiting for you.

You need to detach before you can get to a place where you can make the decision as to whether or not to move on. Don't get the two confused (as many here do). If you think you need a GF to make things right, it means you're not ready for one. It is when you have sorted through things, have fixed your problems, have created and independent life for yourself, and don't feel you have to have anyone to be happy and move on...that's when you'll be ready for a GF.

Originally Posted By: OldFool

You need to detach before you can get to a place where you can make the decision as to whether or not to move on. Don't get the two confused (as many here do). If you think you need a GF to make things right, it means you're not ready for one. It is when you have sorted through things, have fixed your problems, have created and independent life for yourself, and don't feel you have to have anyone to be happy and move on...that's when you'll be ready for a GF.

Oh so true! This I learned after my first marriage. Dating just won't feel right for quite some time. Yeah, it's nice to have female companionship, definitely. I had some good friends to spend time with. It made doing some of those things (like clothes shopping) so much easier. But the important part is that we were clearly friends and not dating. That helped me get back on my feet. Granted, I didn't figure everything out, but I was able to grow. I think if I'd jumped into dating too soon, I would have just gone from gf to gf, which I ended up doing eventually anyway (but then I was also young and stupid).

OldFool,

I tried to PM you, but it didn't work. Could you check my profile and e-mail me?

She just replied to my email from two weeks ago, the one I journaled here: Page 2

Thanks for offering to help me with my issues of the past. I feel that I've worked through a lot of those issues through my years of counseling and now am working on more recent issues.

I think that it's important that you have worked to change your
behavior. I'm sure that D will also benefit from it. I respect that you have worked really hard to change and better yourself. It's turned out to be very good for you.

Of course I get sad when D asks to see you when you're not around
which I why I give you a call. I miss her like crazy when she's not with me. I usually end up working at home until late in the evening those days because I have nothing to do. Its just at this point, I'm not ready to go back. Maybe that point will never come. Like your other email, maybe if it does you will already have moved on. I'm willing to take that chance so that we can all live in peace.

I still notice that you always talk about my issues. I'm really not running away from them. If you think I am, I feel that you're wrong on that account. I am also working hard to resolve a lot of things that have happened in my life. Both the things that I am and am not responsible for. I am addressing everything as best as I can. I see my counselor every other week and have since early fall. I've been doing remarkably well lately. However, you still continue to say that its 'my' issues as though of course, its still 'my' fault. The two of us got married (or I guess that I forced you to marry me according to your story) and we both made errors. We both had issues from somewhere. We both contributed to the demise. I just don't see how it is still all my issues.

Anyway, sorry it's taken me so long to write back. I had to think about these for a bit.

what can I say to her at this point? how should I reply? When she dropped D off this sat I acted very playfully towards D and was cordial but detached to STBXW. I wonder if that caused her to reply? I know I'm probably reading into it too much.

wow... she did bother to reply, which means that she is thinking about things. when i think back to when i was acting like your STBXW, i wrote a letter very much in line with that one.

honey, you have really got to keep down this path of acting "as if" you are fine to have a life without her. eventually, you will convince yourself that this is true - my H did. don't worry about what caused her to reply, it's probably a manifestation of all of the detatchment work you are doing. your letter did, however, obviously have some effect on her.

don't reply.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

She just replied to my email from two weeks ago....

Well, like kikisum, I think this is good. At least she cares enough about things to read it, think about it, and respond to it.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

"I think that it's important that you have worked to change your behavior. I'm sure that D will also benefit from it. I respect that you have worked really hard to change and better yourself. It's turned out to be very good for you."

And she's noticed this too!

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

"It's just at this point, I'm not ready to go back. Maybe that point will never come. Like your other email, maybe if it does you will already have moved on."

Notice the phrasing. It's not, "I won't go back", it's "I won't go back right now". Don't get your expectations all in a bunch, but this is another baby step forward. For now, file it away with the others.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

"I'm willing to take that chance so that we can all live in peace."

Yeah...well...it's easier to say that when you think the other person hasn't moved on.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I still notice that you always talk about my issues. I'm really not running away from them. If you think I am, I feel that you're wrong on that account. I am also working hard to resolve a lot of things that have happened in my life. Both the things that I am and am not responsible for. I am addressing everything as best as I can. I see my counselor every other week and have since early fall. I've been doing remarkably well lately. However, you still continue to say that its 'my' issues as though of course, its still 'my' fault.

OK...so you've got your marching orders. Leave the topic of her issues alone (at least for now). If you believe her when she says she is working on them, then that should be sufficient for you and there is no need to point them out.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

What can I say to her at this point? How should I reply? I wonder if that caused her to reply? I know I'm probably reading into it too much.

1 & 2. I'm not sure what you should say. Perhaps kikisum is right and you should say nothing. If you feel a response is absolutely naecessary, I'd keep it brief and use it to further disengage. Perhaps something along the lines of, "Back when I wrote that, I wasn't focused like I needed to be. I don't think you're running from your problems and I'm no longer running from mine. I'm at a good place right now and making steady progress. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts with me."

3. Your letter got the ball rolling...but, as kikisum suggests, I think your detaching gave her the space to consider it and respond.

4. Yes, you probably are. Again, remember that it's the trend that counts...not any specific event.

Hang in there, you're doing OK.

Thanks OF and kiki. I've prepared a response but I need to know if I should send it at all and/or if it needs to be modified.

Fire at will...

I'm glad to hear that you've resolved a lot of the past issues and continue to work on the more recent ones. I didn't mean anything ill, I'm sorry if you felt that way.

If you say you're not running away from your issues then that's sufficient for me, I have no way of knowing but you do and I believe you. I'm no longer running from mine. I'm at a good place right now and making steady progress. I continue to work on myself and I feel I'm becoming the person I once was, the person I liked. I'm even doing OK in my professional life I was recently promoted and for the first time in my life I have a window office and many new responsibilities. In all this I've never forgotten you for even a moment. I think about you every waking moment. You're afterall the biggest reason that brought about this change. This whole thing hit me like a tonne of brick.

I'm sorry you feel that that I have negative feelings towards you. Just so you know it's quite the opposite in fact. I've been offering prayers as regularly as I possibly can and I pray for you and all of us, I send positive thoughts towards you everyday.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts with me.

Another email from her, all while pushing ahead with D :

Hi,

I just wanted to let you know that I am getting a new life insurance policy that I�m naming you and D as beneficiary. I was thinking of creating a trust for her so that in case anything happened before her 18th birthday, the money would just be invested for that time until she needs it for school, etc. I�m putting you as 50% beneficiary because you�d need the money to replace whatever I pay for toward D's care and could put it toward school, etc.

I am also paying the premium for a policy for you. It�s for $xxK, term life and about $xx/mo. Do you want to take over that policy? If you want to up that, I would recommend doing it before your turn 35 (which is why I�m getting a new policy outside of work�s policy) because rates go up again at that age. The one I�m getting is just for 20 YR term life. It will be in addition to the $xxK I already have through work with you as beneficiary.

SR-
did you ever send this letter? sorry i did not reply sooner, i've been wrapped up in my own sitch so much. let me know if you responded or not, if not and you still want to, i'll give you my 10 cents. i hope you are well...

I'd leave out the last three sentences of the second paragraph (too much focus on you and pretty needy) and the entire third paragraph. Of course, I've always thought people say more when they say less.

bummer. I sent it already yesterday and I added a lot more stuff mostly how things could be good if she tried. Yeah I know, that was lame of me but I wanted to tell her pretty openly how I see this whole thing $\:\($

SR- now i am in your boat my friend... H wants to leave the marriage, in the legal sense. this whole thing is BULLS*#T.

I'm so sorry kiki. We've given it all we possibly could and more. We fought for what we believed and we'll wear these scars and wounds like badges of honor.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I sent it already yesterday and I added a lot more stuff mostly how things could be good if she tried. Yeah I know, that was lame of me but I wanted to tell her pretty openly how I see this whole thing.

I think you need to take a look at your motives. As evidenced in your prior posts, you know that she isn't confused as to how you feel (in fact, it seems you've been "pretty open" on a number of occassions in the past). On top of that, you knew this was "lame" before you sent it. Finally, apparently you made sure you pointed out her role in this, telling her "how things could be good if she tried."

Knowing this, what do you hope to accomplish? I think this had very little to do with repairing your M or the R with your W and had everything to do with what you wanted. You said so yourself, "...I wanted to tell her...how I see this whole thing." Don't get me wrong, wanting to tell her how it is can be a legitimate desire (and doing it can be OK too, if you don't mind the repercussions), but it is dangerous to delude yourself into thinking this is moving you forward. $\:\($

You're right but I'm also tired of avoiding what I want. Why should I? Specially at this point when the divorce is in full swing. What am I going to wait for? Isn't it fair that she opens her eyes and sees things from my perspective too? Isn't it fair that I tell her myself how I really feel about her rather than what she wants to believe.

I'm just exhausted from trying to do the best I can and walking on egg shells worrying about what to say to her or how to act around her. For once I want to just let it all out, even if it's needy and loving things I say. She's divorcing me already, will she have me arrested and put away for telling her I miss her like crazy?

I think it's lame of me to send it to her because it'll make her even bolder and think I'm pathetic "i got him in my back pocket even as I divorce him he's thinking about being in love with me" but there's a chance that she might think "no one's ever loved me this much maybe it's time to reconsider"

OK. Perhaps I'm confused. It was my understanding that you wanted to try to save your M and the R with your W. Is this correct?

If not, then please say so and I'll gladly stop offering advice that has that goal in mind. Without that as a factor, you can feel free to speak your mind, stop avoiding what you want, stop walking on egg shells worrying about what to say to her or how to act around her, and "just let it all out".

As I said...

Originally Posted By: OldFool

Don't get me wrong, wanting to tell her how it is can be a legitimate desire (and doing it can be OK too, if you don't mind the repercussions)...

If, however, this is still your goal, then I stand by my advice and doing these things will not help you reach it. I recognize that it's not fair, but right now that's irrelevant. As Michele says, this isn't about achieving "fairness". Likewise, Dr. Phil says that in repairing a relationship, someone has to be the "hero". In this case, that'll have to be you because right now she's not interested. If you're going to be successful, you simply have to accept that it's not fair and, at least for now, there is nothing you can do about that.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I'm just exhausted from trying to do the best I can...

I'd bet there isn't a person in this community who doesn't understand this. Trying to save a M when the other person doesn't want to is, perhaps, the hardest thing you will ever do. You have to ask yourself whether you want her back enough to put in that kind of effort.

As you so succinctly point out, right now your WAW is leaving you. That means...fair or not...you have only two options, either try to prevent the destruction of your M or finish it off yourself. Everything else is at her discretion (again, fair or not). As a result, you cannot "save" your M at this point. The best you can hope for (and what you should be striving for if you want to eventually save your M) is to simply keep her from obliterating it altogether until she gets her bearings.

Think of it this way. Your child heads off to play in the street. It would be nice to have a discussion about how this is a dangerous activity, how at some future point they could be seriously injured or killed, and that is why they should choose not to play there. But if they're young enough, they can't understand these concepts so, instead, you simply yank them out of the street and threaten punishment if they do it again. In return, they "hate" you for preventing them from doing what they want.

Is that fair? No. However, the goal isn't to achieve fairness or to make them understand, it is to prevent them from being killed until such time as they can understand the bigger concepts and how hating you for not allowing them to play in the steet is unfair.

Likewise, in the context of your WAW, you're not trying to convince her of the bigger concepts as she is not at a point where she can recognize or understand them. Instead, you are avoiding behaviors that will tend to push her closer to killing the M so that, hopefully, it will still be intact when she reaches the point at which she can understand the bigger concepts.

Oh, by the way, dealing with the issue of avoiding what you want is part of what detaching and GALing are about. When you do both, you have opportunities to do what you do want which makes it easier to put your own needs on hold for a little bit when you're interacting with the WAS without feeling like everything is about them.

OF, I always appreciate your advice and response. Please don't take my response as an act of frustration towards you it was towards the situation I'm in. I've been going through this for almost a year. I've done a lot of DB'ing and sure back sliding too.

This morning she asked me to join her and D to the play class she signed D up for. I went and we all had a good time, she made some jokes and so did I. She told me how D got a hold of her bra and tried to put it on. She said D hasn't gone bathroom in two days so she's kinda crabby, then she jokingly said "like you" and started laughing.

After the class she said "are you leaving or do you want to go have lunch, it's almost lunch time". So we went and had lunch and we talked about work and D etc.

I'm just confused why she keeps stringing me along while also divorcing me. I don't know what to expect and how to act. I've tried the Alaska approach i.e. don't offer help, be cordial but not overly nice or friendly...she played that game back with me the same way. I've tried the friendly approach like today and she plays that back with me the same way. So what's appropriate? what's right and what's wrong?

The latest email from W regarding her flight, notice the last sentence:

I was gonna leave at like 945 but might try to be out of here as soon as D eats maybe around 815 830 or so. Can you be ready for me to drop her off?

I can't even do an online checkin cause I don't have a confirmed seat. That's why I want to make sure that I get there early. Which sucks cause I'll just be sitting around like 5 miles from you and D doing nothing.

hint hint

do nothing.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

Please don't take my response as an act of frustration towards you it was towards the situation I'm in.

Don't worry, I didn't. I'm just trying to make sure what you are doing is in line with your goals. Sometimes that means you need to change what you're doing...sometimes it means your goals have changed. The key isn't in what your goal is, it is whether or not what you are doing moves you toward it...whatever that may happen to be. If your goal is still to save your M, then telling your WAW how you see things out of frustration is probably not the best course of action. Better to vent that frustration here on the forum.

You've been at this a year or so which is a long time. I'm only in half that so I understand your frustration...but not fully. You may be at the point where you don't have any more to give (which is part of the reason for my question). I always encourage folks to keep at it as long as they can and want to. But everyone has their limit.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I'm just confused why she keeps stringing me along while also divorcing me. I don't know what to expect and how to act. I've tried the Alaska approach i.e. don't offer help, be cordial but not overly nice or friendly...she played that game back with me the same way. I've tried the friendly approach like today and she plays that back with me the same way. So what's appropriate? What's right and what's wrong?

Well, it seems clear that she's unsure what she wants. If she knew she wanted back together, she'd have come home by now. If she knew she never wanted you again, the D would have been final months ago (I assume).

There is no right or wrong answer, per se. I think the key for you is moderation. Do some of the "friendly stuff" (as you put it) every now and again, but not every time she asks and keep it reasonable (no two hour lunches...just a normal 40 min. to 1 hr., for example). Be cordial and accomodating to reasonable requests, but don't bend over backwards to make her new life carefree (part of being on your own is dealing with life's harsh realities). Take her calls every now and again, but not every one. Respond to e-mail that needs a response, but not to every one you receive if it's just sharing the details of her life.

I think the important thing to consider is whether or not what you are doing is improving the situation and how it is making you feel. For example, if your "being friendly" is adding to your frustration, making you feel used, or bringing you down, then you need to stop. It's easy to think that being friendly is improving the situation, but if you end up reacting out of frustration because of how it ends up making you feel, in the end it may be counterproductive.

At the bottom line, I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) you still haven't really carved out a life for yourself apart from your WAW. If that's right, you need to redouble your efforts to do so. With a year of this under your belt, it's time to start making a life for yourself that doesn't include her (apart from dealing with issues related to the care and upbringing of your child).

Personally, I have created a life I could be satisfied living for the rest of my life. My desire isn't to live the rest of my life alone, but I would be OK doing it as things now stand. If you can't say the same, then it's time to do some work.

Oh, one last question. You've been separated for a year or so, but how many months have you really (and I mean truly) been detached?

SR- checking in on you, looks like OF has really hit the nail on the head. you've had much difficulty detatching because everything your W says and does breaks your heart or lets you down. if you need to push her away to start feeling better about yourself, do it. the key here is not letting her think that she has one bit of an influence on your life. DON'T worry about her right now. if she is going to come back, she'll do it, but on her own time. she must, however see that you have a life without her that you are comfortable and excited about. remember, it was when my H did this to me that within only a couple of months i was begging him back. the catch is, he really had moved on. it was not just a show. he discovered himself and got a life. worked like a charm.

i know you are tired. i actually told my H about your situation, and he was #1 happy that you had stuck up for him a number of times and given me insight, and #2 very understanding of your situation.

just be prepared. if you do truly let go, your W might decide she wants to come back. then what?

Thanks kiki and OF. Sorry, I haven't had a chance to be on here, W's out of town this whole week and between work, D and bad sleep I've just been physically exhausted.

OF, you're probably right I haven't carved out a life for me apart from W because she's all I ever think about when I have any free time. I don't even know what carving out a life means. If it means surviving without her then I guess I have it but if it means being happy without her then no. I feel my life's on hold...I'm subconciously waiting for her to come back so I can go do things like traveling etc.

kiki, I'm glad your communication with your H is going so well that you can open up to him about this place etc. I'd be a bit cautious to not spill the beans all at once but again you're quite good about understanding him. I guess I'd want to know at what point he moved on and how? and what triggered it? Then again probably too early to ask him such things specially on my account - the wounds might still be fresh.

I guess it's been almost a year since the this whole thing started for me now. I finally have my own place. Of course, we've only actually been separated for five months. It's been about a year since I found out about the PA. It's hard to let go.

I don't know if you've seen it mentioned on other people's threads, but you have to basically start thinking of yourself as single and W as a friend or maybe as someone you are secretly attracted to. I still think about W a lot myself, but not the way I used to. I think of her about the same now as I did all the years I knew her before I finally got the guts to let her know I really wanted her. There isn't as much pain that way.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I don't even know what carving out a life means. If it means surviving without her then I guess I have it, but if it means being happy without her then no. I feel [like] my life's on hold...I'm subconciously waiting for her to come back so I can go do things like traveling etc.

I think MWHGC may have said it best...

Originally Posted By: MyWifeHasGoneCrazy

I don't know if you've seen it mentioned on other people's threads, but you have to basically start thinking of yourself as single and W as a friend or maybe as someone you are secretly attracted to.

No, you're not necessarily going to be happy all the time without her, but you should be able to be happy some of the time. If, by now, you don't find yourself laughing at something or smiling without trying, then you really need to get to work. There are things that might make you happy that you should, nevertheless, steer clear of while you're in this situation. Telling her how you really feel, engaging in pursuing behaviors, dating or becoming emotionally involved with another woman, and...of course...becoming physically involved with someone else.

However, beyond these things, it's time to take the rest of your life off hold. If you two were planning on taking a vacation to Cancun, you might want to skip doing that by yourself, but take a different trip instead. Always wanted to see the world-class San Diego zoo? Then go. Wondered what it would be like to walk the Capitol mall in D.C.? Go do it. Find something you'd like to learn how to do and throw yourself into it. Cabinetry, small engine repair, DIY home improvement, landscaping (plants, water features, etc.), stamp collecting, you name it. But take some time to do something interesting that improves you (such as giving you a new skill or new knowledge).

If learning doesn't float your boat, try giving something back. Find a charitable organization that needs your skills or, perhaps, just a warm body or strong hands. Then spend some time helping someone else. As my grandmother used to say, when you help someone else worse off than you, you either forget your problems or you put them into perspective.

As I've said elsewhere, the issue isn't whether or not you will be able to detach. Chances are you will at some point. The question is whether you will do it sooner when it might still help you and at your choice or if you will do it later when it will have little effect and at your WAW's choice.

Don't get depressed because you go do something and just don't seem to have the heart to. You won't...at least not for a while. When you choose to do or learn something new, set yourself a minimum. Promise yourself to go at least X number of times...and then do it. Make yourself if you have to. I'll bet that after a few times, you'll notice that it's not so bad. The key is time.

My best to you.

Not much to report. STBXW got back from her trip yesterday. This morning I emailed saying I hope she made it back safely and to please pick D up at the day care as I'm going to be at our remote office.

She replied:

I did get home ok. I have D's present in my car to give to her. I got you a shirt from there too.

I'll make sure to give her some medicine and stuff tonight! I miss her tons!! Thanks so much for taking care of her for a long time. XYZ is a pretty neat city, get your company to send you there for a visit.

Funny because this city is also where we wanted to move to about a year ago and buy a nice house there - a few months before she dropped the first bomb.

SR,,,

Can you please tell me what your WAW does for a living??

Thanks, Kim

Kim, I'd rather not give too much away on a public forum, however, email me at 'mtumse at aol.com' if you'd like to know. Do you think you might know her?

SR,,Hi, understandable,,I did just e-mail you,,thanks so much!

:)Kim

Kim, I replied to you.

So W and I had a pretty decent time, we spent several hours in the morning together with D to go see the easter bunny, then we had dinner later in the evening and had jokes and laughs...mostly D related.

W's b.day is coming up, I'm trying to figure out what to get her if anything. On the one hand I feel she doesn't deserve anything from me for what she's doing but on the other hand she deserves a gift as a mother of my D. Suggestions?

SR, I recently went through the whole gift thing, birthday, anniversary and valentine's day. I kept it simple with a humorous non affectionate card and simple nonpersonal gifts, some chocolates she likes, an iTunes gift card and a gift card for a manicure.

If you do anything don't do anything that is personal in any way, no jewelry, lingerie, perfume, etc.

Thanks catfan. I was going to get her a couple of geeky things a shirt and panties that say '403 Forbidden' - 403 is the HTTP error code when you go to a URL that you don't have permissions to LOL

OK I won't get those...iTunes sounds better.

I just noticed your signature, it's changed a bit $\:\($

Yes it has changed a bit but there's all of the sudden a lot of things apparently happening here. Where it goes I have no idea just faith that God is taking us in the right direction. That is the right direction according to God.

I won't try to summarize here just too much to tell. So go check my latest thread, really the last page or so, Catfan's latest plot twists.

she's out and about whenever i call her with all kinds of background noise, guys mostly and it's making my blood boil and i can't seem to let the feelings go.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

She's out and about whenever I call her with all kinds of background noise, guys mostly and it's making my blood boil and I can't seem to let the feelings go.

It's natural to be angry and hurt...so don't torture yourself unless it's absolutely necessary. First, don't call unless you really (really!) need to. Second, don't call her cell unless you really (really!) have something you must tell/ask her right now. Third, when the other two are not a factor, call her home phone or send an e-mail. You are rubbing your own nose in this. Stop doing it.

I only call so D can talk to her before going to bed. I don't even typically talk to her other than saying bye and then hanging up since D's too little to hang up the phone by herself.

I signed the divorce paperwork yesterday and yet I act/feel like she's still my wife - I don't know how to not feel that way.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I only call so D can talk to her before going to bed. I don't even typically talk to her other than saying bye and then hanging up since D's too little to hang up the phone by herself.

OK, but apparently that one second on the phone saying "Bye" is enough to put you in a tailspin (according to your posts). If that's a trigger point for you, then let your D say "Bye" and then you just hang up...don't listen or say a thing.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I signed the divorce paperwork yesterday and yet I act/feel like she's still my wife - I don't know how to not feel that way.

Gosh, I'm not sure how to help you. You're hanging onto your failed M like grim death. You've gotten some good advice from others, but I wonder if it's doing any good. For example:

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

W's b.day is coming up, I'm trying to figure out what to get her if anything. On the one hand I feel she doesn't deserve anything from me for what she's doing but on the other hand she deserves a gift as a mother of my D.

Are you kidding? As the mother of your D, she deserves a gift from your D on Mother's day. She deserves no gift from you on her birthday, Mother's day, or any other holiday.

One thing I might suggest is to start forcing yourself to refer to her as "soon-to-be-ex-wife", "ex-wife", "X", or something similar to remind yourself that your relationship to her is changing or will change soon. This has helped some people detach (though it may be tempting, I do not recommend using other titles such as "that bitch" $;\)$ ).

In regard to her b.day. She continues to be friendly with me and brought me back a shirt when she was out of town a couple of weeks ago. It seems rude to not get her anything for her b.day but if y'all think that's the way it should be then I won't get her anything.

I think you should do what you feel is right (after all, you're the one who has to live with the decision). I don't necessarily mean you shouldn't do it, but I stand by my statement that she doesn't deserve it (that is, she is not "owed" this courtesy). If you want to give her something, fine, but I'm worried about a mindset that believes this is either required or (reasonably) expected.

hey sr-
just getting back onto my computer after a break of sorts... i did get your e-mail and will reply soon. as far as gifts, try not getting her anything. i'm afraid you are making things a bit too easy on her. she feels as though you are still there, as you always have been, no matter how poorly she treats you. this thing is a done deal for right now, so i think it would actually do you and her some good if you push her away a bit. don't be an a$$hole, but don't be nice either. just indifferent.

as for your feelings, get angry. let yourself feel. this is the only way to truly get to the place you need to be. some say that divorce is worse than death; your loved one is so close, yet impossible to touch. i totally understand your want to hang on to her, and if you want to keep a bit of hope for your relationship, do it, but keep it in a tiny little box on a shelf. it must be put away for now.

sr, you have got to find your power and take it back.

Originally Posted By: kikisum

Some say that divorce is worse than death;

This is so true because in both cases, the person is gone (as least as far as you're concerned), but with a death, you generally know they still loved you and wouldn't have gone had they been given the choice. With divorce, they not only want to leave, they often take every opportunity to tell you they want to leave and that they don't love you--a double hit.

Well I thought I'd give you all a quick update on my sitch. I got her a b.day card from my daughter and a small bakeware set (I guess from both D and I). I realized no matter what her behavior I'll try to be the person I am as long as it's without any expectations. I don't expect her to say thank you, I don't expect her to see me in a better light. I just did it without any expectations.

I was listening to a radio talk show a few days ago in which someone called in, she was in a similar situation and the talk show host basically told her that she was a pathetic loser for hanging on to the guy after he's been nothing but an @ss to her. He said "if you weren't a pathetic loser my dear you'd tell him to F off". I took this to heart and said to myself I'm successful, I'm handsome, I'm not a pathetic loser...hell no. I don't call her, I don't contact her unless it's strictly business, when she makes small talk I give her a one or two word answer or a half smile and ignore it. I'm feeling quite OK lately just being alone but I'm missing friendships. I still don't have friends to go to the mall with or go grab lunch or dinner with.

I've also started working out; I can do 12 standing bicep curls with 25lb dumbells and I'm bench pressing about 65lbs - hey that's 40% my own body weight lol

Hang in there.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I just did it without any expectations.

That's the only way you can do it and feel OK no matter what.

Originally Posted By: StupidRomeo

I don't call her, I don't contact her unless it's strictly business, when she makes small talk I give her a one or two word answer or a half smile and ignore it.

Probably a good thing at this point until you get a better feel for the lay of the land (so to speak). Keep it short, but sweet. $\:\)$

Last week I signed the divorce papers and sent them back through my lawyer.

I ended up spending most of the day with W today due to a prior arrangement for taking D out together. It amazes how W's so friendly and comfortable around me. She asks me for advice on cars, gadgets, computers etc. In the recent past she'd been getting all such advice through all the 'friends' at her work so I don't know if she's just giving me the bait and if so why?

Still she won't ever go near the R talk or the divorce talk or anything like that. I sometimes wonder if she's truly moved on and just wants to keep a friendly relationship with me. I mean hello she filed for the divorce so she most likely has moved on.

Today she mentioned she hasn't been sleeping well all the time. She mentioned she woke up a few times in the last couple of weeks and couldn't fall back asleep for hours. I remember she could sleep anytime, anywhere under any condition or noise level. Is that perhaps an indication she's thinking about the relationship/marriage etc?

I wouldn't read too much into anything...you've got almost no hope of being right. I do, however, think there is another option you may not be considering...denial. As they say, it's not just a river in Egypt. $\:\)$

Glad to see you're around OF, where the link to your latest?

Wonder how Kiki's doing.

Here ya' go: The fat lady is warming up....2. But there's not much going on for me.

Haven't seen anything of kikisum for a while. I'm assuming that's a good thing and that she's focusing her energy on her R and M. I hope she drops in at some point and gives us an update. I suspect many folks, once they're really involved in piecing, often forget to come back and let the rest of us know that DBing can work and has in their sitch.

I should have mentioned this before, but my WAW was in denial for quite some time (several months) before appearing to come out of it. She was always perky, happy, bubbly, etc. whenever we had any kind of communication (in person or not). Eventually she couldn't keep it up and the facade has now cracked and she's no longer the bubbly I-couldn't-care-less person she was in the early days. That doesn't mean everything is OK (it's not), but it does mean she is at least starting to face reality. You may find the same...though your WAW is obviously not the same as mine so your mileage may vary.

Hey, SR. That last update there sounded fairly upbeat. You stated it all pretty matter-of-factly like anyone who is well detached should.

Yeah. My wife seems fairly comfortable around me too. The last time I was over at her house she propped her feet up on my legs and I thought WTH? She still has OM around and still no R talk or D talk. The way she is so friendly actually makes me uncomfortable now.

If she's having trouble sleeping there's definitely something going on there. But, who knows what? Only her.

Good to hear from you.

I wonder about Kiki too. I'm sure we'll hear from her eventually. Hopefully to say that she and H are getting along well.

Hey MWHGC, Yes overall I'm doing better but I have times when I can't stop reminiscing about STBXW.

Glad you stopped by, how are things with you lately?

I emailed kiki yesterday, hopefully she's doing well.

I do alright unless I see her. That's still too much for me to bear. Especially with the way she's been acting lately. A little odd. It's on the last couple of posts of my thread.

SR, haven't heard from you in a while. You doin' OK? Did you ever find out what's up with kiki?

Hi SR and all-
thanks for thinking of me; it's funny, you guys all must have sensed that the time was right for me to come back here. i've started a new thread and H seems more hell bent than ever on getting a divorce. like everyone elses spouses, he is bubbly and light. enjoying the feel of his new band-aid i suppose. he never cut off ties completely with OW.

so SR is that it? is your divorce final or do you have to go to court? i must say, you sound really good. strong. i'm proud of you. i hope to get to that point soon. she WILL regret her decision. that is inevitable. i don't know a single divorced person who doesn't regret it, unless there is abuse involved.

check in, let us know how you are doing. sorry i never e-mailed you back, i truly meant to. things were just so crazy. the big lesson i learned is that unless they are really ready to come back, it's not worth it. it's much harder than living alone.

romeo, is this your thread? I saw you on luvles and couldn't help but to stop by after hearing your sitch. my M was saved as well so I feel for you going thru a second bomb.

have you read For Men Only? I'm going out of town, but maybe sometime I will be able to catch up on you.

Hi ST, thanks for stopping by. My latest thread is actually the one in my signature. Yes the second bomb (no third) is horrible but I seem to be doing a lot better than before.

I've never heard of For Men Only...I'll look it up. Congrats on getting back together, make sure you guys work on the core issues unlike us sweeping them under the rug.