Hi all,
I am back again. Some of you may have read my posts but for those of you who havent here is a little bit of history. Last year my H after an argument told me that he wanted a D and ILYBINILWY. We were still having sex at that point but not very often. He was more interested in masturbating. After much begging (which I truly regret) on my part we decided to try to work it out. We went to MC a few times before I was diagnosed with a tumor that required surgery. The next few months our marriage was put aside and he was with me throughout my illness up to a few weeks after surgery. We got into another argument at which time he confirmed my suspicions that he was just with me until I was back on my feet. We separated. Four months later I decided to return to my home. I gave him the choice of leaving and he did but a few days later he returned home. He became much nicer and more attentive. We are getting along a lot better and he is so much more affectionate. He will get into bed and cuddle with me and kiss me and grab me but that is it. We kiss on the lips but very quick and simple kisses. Nothing passionate. I get upset sometimes and we argue about how he doesnt want to be intimate with me. I am attractive and I get plenty of attention from other me so this is hard for me to understand. He says he gets his relief from masturbation. So I am wondering if anyone out there can answer something for me, if he really isnt having an A is masturbating that much better than being with me. Not to say this would be acceptable but cant men just close their eyes and have sex with anyone who is there? I mean isnt having sex with your wife better than with yourself? At this point I dont know if this is because he is no longer attracted to me, or that masturbating is so much easier, or that it has been so long since he has had sex with me that he just doesnt know how to initiate it?
I want to tell him how I feel but everytime I try we argue. Its a sensitive subject for him. I am thinking of writing him a letter.
Any advice anyone? I want to be intimate with my H again.
The guy is gay, just accept it and move on.
I'm sure there will be all kinds of other opinions, but come on. You get into bed with an attractive woman who wants sex and you do nothing?
Its possible he has very low testosterone. Take him to an endochrine specialist... but I'm betting gay.
I've posted a few times here, but your story seems so familiar I had to make a rare post.
I could not understand why my wife was not only so cold to me but hostile anytime the dreaded deed came up even in conversation or in a movie.
When we were moving I found a box of letters and lo and behold here is a picture of a blond girl in a sexy pose and a letter to my wife talking about her leaving me for her and my wife's tough decision to stay with me and raise or baby.
I never told her I found it but all made sense. In a few years that little one goes to college and I leave my wife. I have prepared for years for it.
How rude of her, she gets to have sex with women but I don't.
So... are you together now... working on it... going to MC?
What was his reason for coming back?
Are you ready and willing to draw boundaries to stand up for yourself?
Corri
PitHarmon,
That was a very insensitive response. YOUR W may have turned out gay, but that does not mean her H is.
There are women (and men too) on here who are married to someone with deeper issues where the answers aren't as simple as gay/straight. Take my own H for example...he's definitely NOT gay...BUT he does have other issues that stemm from his past (whore/madonna) and the fact that he was raised by parents that didn't show affection towards each other in front of the kids or in public (they formed his behavior as role-models). BELIEVE me at different times in this process I've gone through with him...I almost wished I'd discover he was gay, it would have been a comfort of sorts to me, but he's not. Oh..and he's also got normal testosterone levels (had those checked early on.)
Please think before you post something so insensitive to someone who is in obvious pain. There CAN be many other mental/trust issues at play.
GEL
DFE,
If he's MB'ing for his release then he doesn't have to put that energy towards you. It's my guess he has some major trust issues towards you. MB'ing means he doesn't have to be intimate with you, doesn't have to be vulnerable at all...he can give you the attention he feels comfortable with at this time.
Oh and no...men can't just close their eyes and have sex with anyone who is there (at least I wouldn't generalize that...I'm sure some can.) I've known at least two men in my life whose emotions were attached to making love with a woman....I'd even stretch that to say 3 men (including my own husband). Don't let that misperception that men need sex just for the physical release mislead you.
GEL
Fortunately voting is not the method by which we determine the underlying causes of R problems.
Chrome
(I'm still voting gay. )
Well...I'm voting he's not, so there....back to a level playing field.
So much for democracy with this huh? Both of our votes did squat to help her with her issues. It would be nice if her issue were this black/white...but unfortunately it's not likely to be.
GEL
DFE
When there are massive intimacy issues, MB is a much easier way to satisfy the male need for "release." As GEL says though, it is most likely not satisfying to your H, but it is just a way to get by.
Quote:
He became much nicer and more attentive. We are getting along a lot better and he is so much more affectionate. He will get into bed and cuddle with me and kiss me and grab me but that is it. We kiss on the lips but very quick and simple kisses. Nothing passionate.
Those sound like good first steps, and very similar to my situation. During the infatuation stage, passion is very easy to acheive. This however can give us the mistaken impression that passion should be easy to acheive in the post-infatuation stages of a long-term R. I think everyone here on this board can testify to how hard it is to really acheive passion when there are underlying intimacy issues.
Quote:
I am attractive and I get plenty of attention from other men so this is hard for me to understand.
Given that you are an attractive woman, I'm sure your H is attracted to you to some degree. But attraction doesn't automatically produce passion. Look at it from the dating perspective. If a woman found a man very attractive but is very shy, her physical responses to him could be easily misinterpreted by him as a lack of interest (or passion). I'm not saying your H is shy, but it is easy for other emotions to get in the way of passionate encounters.
Quote:
cant men just close their eyes and have sex with anyone who is there
I'd venture to say that this is not the case for most men.
Quote:
I want to tell him how I feel but everytime I try we argue.
Don't give up, don't stray from the point, don't let him deflect. This is VERY hard to do, and is something I am frankly horrible at doing. But unresolved arguments, especially serious ones, will kill any chance you have at intimacy.
Chrome
Chromo,
You seem like you have experience with this sort of issue. I am in the same boat. My H and I, after coming back from almost divorce, are doing much better in every aspect of our relationship. But H says he just doesn’t feel “that way” about me. I don’t know whether to push the issue (as I see him waiting for those feelings to just come back and I fear that if they don’t just magically come back he will leave again) or giving it time. Any suggestions?
Quote:
(I'm still voting gay. )
Well...I'm voting he's not, so there....back to a level playing field.
So much for democracy with this huh? Both of our votes did squat to help her with her issues. It would be nice if her issue were this black/white...but unfortunately it's not likely to be.
GEL
well...not to fan the flames, but this did happen to my sis. its possible...I would say "not enough information" at this point to draw any conclusions, though.
cac4,
I agree with you (and you aren't fanning any flames
). What you stated is kind of my point we don't have enough info...but issues like this are rarely that black & white. My point to Pit was more that his delivery of his opinion & perspective...was a bit insensitive.
He has experience with his SO turning out gay, you have experience with your sis going through something similar...so obviously that possibility isn't discounted, it's a viable possibility. I and several other women on this BB have experience with completely straight men with normal testosterone levels behaving in a very similar manner though...for completely different reasons.
So as you said...we need more info.
GEL
Weeellll.... here's a website that might be worth exploring:
http://www.straightspouse.org/ Quote:
Straight Spouse Network (SSN) is an international organization that provides personal, confidential support and information to heterosexual spouses/partners, current or former, of gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender mates and mixed-orientation couples for constructively resolving coming-out problems. SSN also offers research-based information about spouse, couple, and family issues and resources to other family members, professionals, community organizations, and the public. SSN is the only support network of its kind in the world.
As outreach, the network offers information about spouse and family issues, mixed orientation marriages and spouse resources to professionals, community organizations and the media.
Lil,
I looked at the website and came to a single conclusion - these are better people than I. I have too much sexual jealousy to "share" in that way. If H were to ever "come out" I doubt I would be able to agree to a "mixed orientation" marriage. That being said, I do recognize that I have "agreed" (explicitly or implicitly) to many things that I don't really like in my marrige (e.g. low amounts of sex and passion) so I guess we all draw our lines where we need to.
Karen
It does indeed take all kinds... and there are different kinds of love.
I've mentioned in the past a man that I was intimate with off and on for over two decades. His W was bisexual and so was not particularly interested in him sexually, but they were devoted to each other. Sexually I was always absolutely satisfied with him, and I was also very fond of him. They would have easily included me in a three-way relationship, but *I* wanted the exclusivity of knowing that One Man loved me and chose me above all others. That man was my husband.
After he died, and in the subsequent turmoil of my R with my bf, I think I could go back to the ease with which I related to these two people. We were very comfortable with each other, and we always had lots of fun together. They were the kind of friends that when they came to my house I NEVER felt like I had to run around and clean up first!
(No, she was never part of the sexual equation, although she was probably willing.) Alas, this man died a month before my H. His W, although she is in a new R with a woman, is still in deep grief over him-- it's been more than six years.
I have given up hope of finding a passionate emotional and physical/sexual connection with my bf. Maybe someday I'll find myself in another R-- I'm not THAT old! LOL! But after having been in all these different types of R's I can see more clearly how people can work out situations to their own satisfaction that look completely distasteful and even wrong to others...
I know you didn't mean it this way... but it's not that they are "better" than you... it's just that different people put the highest value on different aspects of the R. Clearly we see that on this board every day...
Lil,
By "better" I meant more accepting, more understanding, and perhaps even kinder. I'm sure that after I got over an initial sense of "betrayal" that I could learn to understand the person's need to be who they are but they would need to do that in their own space, I don't think it would work in mine. That is what I mean by "better" - kinder and more accomodating.
Karen
Not to belabor it (NOT ME! NO!
)... but I think you're a wonderfully kind and understanding person and these people are simply under the influence of different preferences. I don't think they are any kinder or more understanding. When my girlfriend discovered that she really didn't have any sexual interest in her H, and that she would prefer the sexual company of a woman, she was relieved when he and I got together. She told me this explicitly after his death, although I certainly knew it implicitly while he was alive.
Now, from his POV, he seemed genuinely happy when she met a woman with whom she was compatible. It didn't seem to bother him that she wasn't interested sexually in him., Of course, he was a 7 and some of them do their best to be okay with whatever happens. We'll never know how he really felt about it. Maybe HE qualifies for the "Better" designation.
I just meant that it's a question of preferences and not any superiority of character.
If you don't like chocolate, then giving it up for Lent is no sacrifice for you, kwim?
Yeah Lil I do see your meaning and I would understand how your girlfriend could feel that way because she obviously cared for her husband but more like a friend. As for him deciding to be happy with her finding love with another woman. Well...I guess we learn to live with lots of things that maybe weren't our original intention or preference especially when we have genuine respect and caring for that person.
After my first M went to crap and we D I haven't lost a single thought over his new sexual relationships. Actually, I'm glad when he has someone because he is happier and is able to be kinder to me then. However, I had long since lost sexual interest in him and had so I had no sexual jealousy. I'm just saying that if someone who I loved, who I wanted to have sex with decided that they needed to have sex with others - men or women I don't think I could have an "open" relationship and continue with the marriage. That is just me. I am someone who is truly meant for monogamy. Every time I have a little fantasy about meeting my libidinous needs outside my M but continuing with the M since H is a great Dad, a great guy and a great partner I ultimately come to terms with the fact that I'm just not built for that kind of confusion. I would wind up romanticizing Mr. Sex Partner and all that intention about not letting "affect" my M would be for naught. I guess that is what I end up thinking about the idea of an "open" M, that any partner who is given sexual license to operate outside the M may get sexual gratification only for a while but that ultimately they would be getting other needs met by their sexaul
partner(s) that would negate the purpose of the M. I don't presume to say that it wouldn't work for other people (because apparently it does) I'm just saying that my sexual maturity doesn't extend that far - if I want to have sex with someone in a long term R then I pretty much want them to myself.
Karen, who would take her "ball" and go home rather than "share" her H
But hey Lil, I appreciate your confidence in my niceness. Sometimes the vengeful Scorpio in me makes me doubt it!
Sorry about the late reply dwh.
I'm going to do a lot of guessing here, partly because I don't know a lot of details, and mostly because I am an amateur at this in every sense of the word.
If you are in a committed, long-term relationship, then you should give progress all the time it needs. I would say if you fear that sometime in the near future that if things don't get better then he will leave, then your first problem is long-term commitment. If you fear that if you push an issue that it will drive him away, then your intimacy has problems as well. I don't mean to sound harsh in saying that. But in an intimate, trusting R, spouses should not fear to make there needs heard by their partners.
Of course, all that is well and good to be known, but it doesn't do you a bit of practical good. The question is what should you DO about it. I'd say the first thing to do is decide yourself where your boundary is. What are the things you absolutely MUST have or need in order to stay in a relationship or feel your are part of one? Then make that boundary known to your H in a very loving way. Remember, boundaries are NOT threats. You are simply stating how you feel, and allowing the other person to react to it in whatever way they choose. Of course, violating a boundary will have consequences, but those consequences have more to do with your resulting actions rather than trying to force an action in your partner. Subtle difference, and hard to put into practice, but vital.
So, let's get down to details. If you feel that regular sex is a vital part of a marital reltaionship for you, you might want to say something like "honey, I feel that sex should be a necessary and integral part of our relationship for it to be healthy. It is something that I need, to feel like we are truly married." Edit it to sound the way you want (and others may chime in here if I am leading the wrong way as far as boundaries are concerned).
The next thing is to wait for his response. It may be immediate, or it may just be a deflection. If it is a deflection, give it a few days and try again. If it is still deflected, you may want to try to make the boundary harder and clearer to him. If his response is that he does not feel the same way as you, then you have a hard choice to make.
Please anyone, if I am saying things wrong here, correct me.
Best wishes,
Chrome
dwh,
Chromes reply was very good. Sorry for the earlier hijack - Lil and I had a little side convo going. Believe me, I know the pain of being the HDW and the feeling that I must be fatally flawed if my H doesn't want to have sex with me OR as others have suggested, maybe its' him. Well, I suppose either could be the case but more likely, it is the marital dynamic that is off kilter. Many marriage therapists (Harville Hendrix and David Schnarch among others) have said that marriages are SUPPOSED to go off kilter to give us a chance to grow up, resolve our issues and be better people. It isn't easy but there is lots of help here and elsewhere (books, therapy etc...)
Karen
Yes we are together now working on it. We stopped going to MC because although it helped at first it got to a point where we were just sitting around chit chatting with the MC. Frankly we dont have that kind of money. Since I posted last my H and I have had sex. I sent him an email telling him exactly how I felt about everything. A few days later he initiated sex with me. Although I was happy to be intimate with him I was upset that he was not able to ejaculate. I dont know if it is because he is still not totally into it with me or if he is so used to MB'ing that intercourse is a difficult way for him to ejaculate.
He has become so loving and keeps telling me how much he loves me. I am glad that things seem to be getting better but I cant help but feeling that him not being able to ejaculate is a bad sign. I just dont want to be forcing him into having sex with me.
Believe me I have thought about him being gay numerous times but he doesnt seem to have a problem being turned on by other women. Lately he is turned on by me too but not how it used to be. I think it is a lot of trust issues. Although I have never ever done anything to make him mistrust me he feels that throughout our relationship I have been very controlling with our lives and money. I cant help but to think this might be a way for him to take control of some aspect of our lives.
Quote:
I cant help but feeling that him not being able to ejaculate is a bad sign
I wouldn't read a lot into this. Sometimes we have no control over the body's responses. It's much more significant that he says he loves you and that he initiated.
I had a bf once who had a hard time coming unless he got a LOT of friction... so regular intercourse and oral sex didn't always produce an ejaculation... the smooth surfaces didn't produce rough enough friction. Yeah, that was probably from too much MB in his teens and later. I was in my 20's and too naive to read anything into it. It didn't bother me in the least... Alas, now that we're older, we sometimes imagine too much for our own good.
Re: DFE I dont know if it is because he is still not totally into it with me or if he is so used to MB'ing that intercourse is a difficult way for him to ejaculate
So try giving him a hand job and ask him how "HE" does it.
Quote:
Although I have never ever done anything to make him mistrust me he feels that throughout our relationship I have been very controlling with our lives and money.
This is exactly the same viewpoint I see in my W. Her very nature is to direct (and minimize) the chaos, while I would much prefer to watch and redirect the occasional step that wanders too far afield.
From random/scattered comments she is just trying to maintain some order in her life, while I stand back and wonder how long it will be until she again thinks to ask my opinion before announcing our next objective/task to the world. The ideal is probably somewhere between the two extremes, but that means I would have to take over and dominate her somehow, or she has to relinquish control (at least partially) of the children/surroundings/house. Both solutions are directly opposite the way we were raised.
On the other hand, dumping control of money into her lap has greatly reduced her spending sprees.
I may have a little insite in this matter.
Wife and I have had sex 6 times in 5 years.
I filed for divorce, we are now working on things and things are shaky at best.
Anyway, It was easier for me to hit a porn site than it was to go upstairs and deal with her. There were several things that had not gone right in our marriage, and I blamed her for alot of them, not because they happened because she had taken a hands off approach and i felt i was fighting the world on my own. We had a baby, she lost her job, we were forced to sell our house, moved out of state, she sat on unemployment while I busted my a**, raise the kids while she watched t.v., the list goes on and on. To get to the part your interested in.
We called off a divorce and agreed to work on things.
We had sex the night we called it off and nearly every day after for about a week. I didn't ejackulate most of the time, we would have sex until i got tired and that was that.
My problem is if i dont think she is enjoying it then i don't enjoy it. One of the biggest things in my situataion is that I want my wife to want me, if she is just doing it to placate me then I would rather do it myself.
So my question to you is are you both enjoying it?
It may take some time to get back on track so i would give it some time and don't take it personally.
Hope this helps
Quote:
I think it is a lot of trust issues. Although I have never ever done anything to make him mistrust me he feels that throughout our relationship I have been very controlling with our lives and money. I cant help but to think this might be a way for him to take control of some aspect of our lives.
Do you think there is any basis for his feelings regarding control?
MrsNOP -
netbrsr:
Good point, what is the point of sex if one party is does not want it. LD people have sex, HD people make love. Making love is worth it, sex is not. LD people complain that it is "Just Sex", when in reality their LD is what makes it "Just Sex". Who wants "Just Sex"?
CeMar,
You are once again generalizing LD/HD people. I've known at least one HD (3 three actually) person throughout my own experiences who when they had sex...weren't making love. I also know that when I was LD myself years ago...I did make love to my H.
Would you PLEASE stop compartmentalizing people? It's just not that simple. Is life really so black and white to you?
GEL
Sorry it took so long to get back. You had asked if I thought there was any basis to him saying I was controlling. I dont think I was controlling I was just responsible for a lot of stuff. It seemed he wanted it that way. It was less stress for him. I would take care of our finances and he didnt have to worry about anything. He never said it bothered him.
Anyhow we have not made love since that one time several weeks back. I dont even know how to initiate anything out of fear of rejection. Is it really better masturbating than having to be with me? I just dont understand.
Ok, guys jump in here. It is my opinion that masturbation is more physically stimulating. I have seen "actions" that I would think hurt that are applied with great furvor.
Could it be the same as the "vibrator" being satisfying but the H not?
When was his last physical? How is his health? I missed, what is his age?
I am new here but married 15 years LDW, pardon me if I miss DB principles. I will do my best to help you based on my uneducated reflections and will speak only from my male perspective in order to save some ink. To your question: Yes it can be much more satisfying MB’ing than having sex or making love to your W.
Why? First is the baggage. If your husband has lost intimacy with you through relationship baggage he will prefer MB or MB w porn. He does not have to deal with baggage when he is alone and he gets to blame you at the same time (win/win to ultimately loose)
Second is the stimulation. If he is good at MB a partner can be a distraction on focusing on the mighty O. When a man MB’s for sexual release he can focus entirely on himself and every movement he experiences is by definition heightening his satisfaction.
As an aside to the stimulation. If he uses porn to MB the problem is harder for you- you simply can not compete with the visual input available to him. If this is in your sitch view porn as a drug. Given what you have written then he would be an addict. That means he will do and say anything to get the porn MB fix.
Finally satisfaction. How often does he MB? How does that realistically equate to you willingness?
I have struggled with this I have the same experience and agree with Netbrsr.
You did no ask for advice but I will give you what I needed for your consideration noting porn was in our equation with a long history. I am/was (cycling) to the point where I would say "I don't need or want to make love to you". Meanwhile my resentment toward a wife who would not initiate (as defined by me not her) burned under the surface. If this is possibly your sitch then consider: talk is cheap. Talk does no overcome actions and does not eradicate baggage. Simply put what I needed (independent of the words I was using) was my wife to aggressively initiate sex. To get my point across I needed her to "rape me". From that sexual healing came the underpinning of rebuilding the intimacy portions of the relationship which was of course the broken part on both sides.
Nothing works,
I am very interested in what you have to say. I am the HDW and am married to a man who is sexually timid while he has no problem with bawdy sexual humor and who openly admits to MB to porn (how often etc... I don't know). I have been "fended off" more times than I can count and he seems happiest to initiate on his timetable (once every two or three weeks) with me making no overtures or initiations in the meantime and definately no references to our R or our Sexual R during that time. He would describe us as "intimate" and "connected" while I would not. He married me later in life (mid-30's) with few close relationships, never a live in sitch and I have come to think that the MB/Porn had just become such a way of life and second nature to him that sex with a partner is just sort of a lot of trouble. So, it is sort of like an occasional treat. He only likes it one way - me on top (I guess that gets at the visual need). So, if I were to use what you were saying and apply it to my own sitch, you would say that he is in a type of approach/avoidance cycle that you have found broken only by extreme, aggressive sexuality that in a way "competes" with the porn? Or is it that you are just saying it broke through the resistance?
Karen
We are sort of a mixture here so I am not sure how much overlap applies. I am HD and now am at the “forget it” point making me essentially LD. For your sitch I am just surmising; beware being burdened with free advice.
My W and I both feel controlled, my wife has most of the responsibilities in our life. Briefly we own a pretty big small business. She is the bean counter and I am the entrepreneur (and CEO). House: I am essentially one of the kids at many levels and she takes care of the house books etc. That is the polarized view anyway.
I agree essentially with your read on you vs. porn for his O since he has been MB w Porn for a long time. So we must presume he has good thrust, we need to work on vector. All this probably could come down to needing to be convinced you find him attractive (concurring then with approach/avoidance cycle). In which case my thinking is lift him emotionally, and build sexual intimacy and embolden the non sexual intimacy for him to let go of the porn.
“broken only by extreme, aggressive sexuality”. What I needed was to feel W wanted to ML with me to meet her own sexual needs, not mine. This makes me feel needed and important to her life as a sexual being. I need to know she is willing to push until she gets it because she believes sexuality between us is important. Given he is timid I would not pull out the Victoria’s Secret collection. Consider GEL’s points which I get though not me. I would start from you comfort position:: snuggling but be persistent, rub his penis, if you think the “Madonna complex” a possibility stay in bounds but never give up. Just keep going and then see if he will come to you in a previously OK position- Inside the boundaries of your relationship say through action “I want you”.
I think though before you set your rudder you need to know what kind of porn we are talking about and the frequency would be good to understand too. I have no idea how to deal with a homosexual issue. If you have thought it possible then it might be good to know if he is looking at male bisexual or homosexual stuff. If you are on top and sitting up he can be pretty detached emotionally from you (ask your self if his eyes are shut). IMPO most anything else to - everything else – in the porn world you can beat.
To your question “competing” with porn is closest but I would phrase it more like “blocking porn”. He is horny and has two choices. You want to envelop him so he can not find the excuse to rebuff you. He may still go down and MB to porn after making love to you at first unless you can coax several O’s out if him. At the core of all this is the intimacy. Porn can not provide it. With it in your relationship I believe porn can not compete. There are a lot more learned folks on that I’m sure. For me when our sex life was natural, regular and had some variety; porn was a non issue. I will think more but will note for now that possibly varied positions, that flow from one to another (i.e. not programmed or mechanical) might be a good gauge of success.
“I just dont want to be forcing him into having sex with me.” Right now when my W and ML it is mechanical and unsatisfying. I feel like she is doing it as her marital duty. Compounding that is I hate that she enjoys it and has Os. I mention this because I fear for you if your current approaches regularly lead to “OK I know I have to do this” from H. Gets old leads and leads wandering.
I have never fended off my W so if you are rubbing him and nibbling on his neck etc to spool him up and he is rejecting after you really try (months) then he is more like my LD wife- note my “call sign”. I just don’t know. My W never has MB’d though so perhaps there is hope and he can come back to you following the “lift his esteem and build intimacy” through healthy sex approach.
Good luck I would get opinions from the regulars that make sense to you, C or books before committing to a plan.
Nothing,
Thanks for the thoughts. All his extra-curricular porn activity is unknowable to me. His computer is totally private with a private password and he maintains the network and cleans the computer regularly - he works from home sometimes. I use a separate computer. Actually, I have a marital book collection that would rival most therapists and I have been a regular on here for a couple of years. I have tried various "plans". Every once in a while I see a posting that piques my interest like yours did. Mostly, I submerge my sexuality and often feel LD like you. For me, it is rarely a true LD - feels a little like putting the saran wrap on while the leftovers are still boiling - it might be covered but the steam underneath is forming a tent. Anyway, you did give me some things to think about.
Karen
Hey Karen,
Since you are well versed in this marital psych stuff (I am not - creating my sheepish position) I’ll just rattle along and you can sort it out.
If he admits to porn I don’t get the cleaning thing. It is a red flag to me. I presume you know how to check his cookie file and that is what is being cleaned along with the usual search histories etc. On the other hand, looking at myself there are some sites I would be embarrassed about as it applies to my W of long standing and the mother of my children. Honestly I’m here to understand some of my resistance to dialog with my W on this issue.
I have to say that my wife has only become “more so” over the years to the point that now she is “doing her duty” and I am feeling way low. I suppose this is not DB but I have come to realize, looking back, that I fooled myself in to thinking this would all work out. I will say that if we did not have children, (I will not abandon them having come from a broken home myself) I would be gone. Sex/intimacy for me is just way to important to live without and I have done this for nearly half my life. Hurts to say this as it seems so shallow. We did not have one harsh word for each other for the first four years we lived together. We have built a strong business together; have no drug, violence or health issues that many on this site have. Yet I look back over twenty one years, today being our 16th anniversary, and the certainty of wanting a real intimate sexual existence looms large- larger than anything except my children’s emotional health.
The harder you try, the luckier you are. Good luck.
NW
Dear Nothing,
Long story. H is a meticulous guy and cleans up everything the way he cleans his computer. There are no cookies to check and why would I check since he has told me he uses porn. I consider it an ethical violation to hack into his computer. I woudn't consider it so if I thought I was being lied to.
For you - have you read Passionate Marriage? That is a much favored marital tome for the folks on this site. it might go a long way to explain some of her resistances and yours.
Karen
Thanks Karen.
Is the book you recomend by David Schnarch?
Yes - I have read a couple of his books and found them very helpful.
Karen