Last one locked.
Yea, Nikki - New Year's Eve!!! I will be doing some homework over the next few days to see what I can afford
I'll take a double mocha frappacino.
You got it, NCB!
How's it hangin?
OMG!
I so need a drink. Pour me one, Donna! Gin Fizz, please.
What's new?
I'm making it a double, hon. What a crazy place this has been for a few days, huh?
And poor Jen's sitch just puts it all in perspective. I hope that EVERYone can put their big girl panties on, let the non-toxic peeps back on the board, and move forward!
I am actually doing pretty good. Stupid thing with the bathing suit has sticken (is that a word?) more as funny as time has gone by. She is just so pathetic. I keep forgetting it all together until I come back over here!
Took the kids to BMX today, and you would not believe how many times one kid could bike around this track with all of the jumps. I would be done about 1/2 way through, once. I lost count for him. Then, he randomly turns around and peddles BACK UP THE HUGE HILLS!!! It is pretty cool. And as long as x keeps his spot over on the other side of the track, I am hoping to go and watch for the rest of the races this fall (there are only a few).
While he was practicing, D had the pug. What an ugly animal. I mean, she is cute, in that smashed-monkey-face kind of way, but I feel bad for her trying to breathe. Or run. Or walk, for that matter. I think she is as round as she is long. But D loves all animals (and in truth, I do, too), so she was in heaven, bundling dandelion leaves into chew toys for the pooch. Probably the most roughage the thing has every had!
And I never would have guessed just how bad a 13 year old boy could smell. Now, my S was pretty ripe, but his friend - Oh. My. God. I drove to the orchard with all the windows open.
Got some apples, but I didn't get to prep them, yet. It will probably wait until I have the kids for the night again on Thurs. Planning on making apple crisp - x's favorite, and he don't get any! (insert evil laugh)
Work tomorrow with my student teacher, who is trying SO hard, scramble home to get the kids off with x then rush to IC. I am going to try to make the meditation class tomorrow night.
How about your world? You been visiting over the border as of late?
maybe you should send his dirty underwear over to the skank's house! What a cow!!!
I love animals but was told different a while back that is why I posted what I did in Kevin's thread.
Just got back last night from a great visit!
Excitement around there as it is homecoming for them here shortly in October.
I could go for some apple crisp. my figure can't but for some reason I am feeling down today and could eat a horse. well, not literally but well, maybe I just could. Hehehe!
Really, chocolate and alcohol will nicely suffice.
On second thought, Donna, cancel the caffeine upper, I'll go with a downer instead, a little red wine, any make or model.
How's it hangin', you ask? Not too bad, not too good. About average. I'm a little worn from finishing the last haul of stuff out of my lovely (former) marital residence -- more-so emotionally than physically worn, that is. Hence the switch to wine -- I'm going to turn in early.
I'm also feelin' the blues from the recent Night of the Long Knives we've had here in the DB forums. (I miss you, Bethie.)
maybe you should send his dirty underwear over to the skank's house!
with a note that says..."Now, THIS is dirty!"
NCB - it is hard, but now you have your things about you (sorry, I am channeling The Quiet Man--wish I could have beat my x with a stick while dragging his sorry a$$ home!) Anyway, wine it is. Better than whine.
Trip, will do.
Donna, I have no doubt that the suit was clean but I will tell you what I think she/he/they deserved. The suit could have been dumped in the big hole, soaked, put in a plastic bag and dropped off to her/him/they..It would have then been considered soiled. Just kidding....or am I??
While he was practicing, D had the pug. What an ugly animal. I mean, she is cute, in that smashed-monkey-face kind of way, but I feel bad for her trying to breathe. Or run. Or walk, for that matter. I think she is as round as she is long. But D loves all animals (and in truth, I do, too), so she was in heaven, bundling dandelion leaves into chew toys for the pooch. Probably the most roughage the thing has every had!
I had a pug..actually it was her pug but I considered it a step pug once we got M'd..
I really liked the pug when it was young and full of pizzzz..as the pug got older I felt sorry for it. It expanded to an odd football shape at the age of 10 and would wheeze as it wobbled. The flat face/big girth was it's downfall I'm afraid.
Got some apples, but I didn't get to prep them, yet. It will probably wait until I have the kids for the night again on Thurs. Planning on making apple crisp - x's favorite, and he don't get any! (insert evil laugh)
There were 2 orchards where I lived with STBX. One above me, one below. I miss those apples. anndddd I can't believe he gave up all that and an apple crisp too...what a dummy.. and yes, it's more PMA boost from Mikey to Donna and here's your little blushy face
I hope you are well Donna, you sound good. I did enjoy the chat the other night and hope you will check in occasionally and hope that you don't mind that I do..
Won't mind that in the least. Let me know what your flight plans are.
And dipping the suit in the dumpwater-that-used-to-be-a-swimming-pool.....now, THAT was funny right there!
Might be nice to collect a mayonnaise jar of the water and leave it for him - tell him that is what is coming out of the tap!
My MIL's face dropped when I mentioned the heavy metals that could be leeching into the ground water...I don't think they have been using bottled water.
Thanks for the blush...
My MIL's face dropped when I mentioned the heavy metals that could be leeching into the ground water...I don't think they have been using bottled water.
and I still can't get over that..Maybe MIL/FIL will light a fire under his assss..the neighbors blow my mind also..I mean they have to know...when all is said and done please have that well tested..is there city water near by that can be tapped?? or ran to the house??
No, stupid town ran a sewer line right down the street last year, too - would have made sense then to hook up to the town water that runs right around the block at the same time, right? Town engineer couldn't tell me why they wouldn't do it. We've never had a problem with our 40 yr+ septic, but I can't wash my car or water the lawn with the well I have!
Yes, the neighbors know, everyone knows. It is so awkward that everyone kind of ignores it. I got in one poor guy's face in the not-too-distant past, asking what the he!! did I ever do to you, that you support what this woman has done to my family?! Um, not a proud moment for me, and I called him the next day to apologize. But at least he knows how I feel about it, now.
Political correctedness bites a$$. No one wants to stand up and say, Whoa! What the HE!! are you thinking?! They all ask me how I am when its just me and them, but they feel like they are intruding if they were to mention if to x....
whatever.
As for their water? Maybe they are hoping for a lawsuit payout when little Johnny is born with a third eye or something...
and how deep is the well you have?? Do you know for sure?? Not very deep if you can't wash the car or water the yard..right??
As for their water? Maybe they are hoping for a lawsuit payout when little Johnny is born with a third eye or something...
and I can guarantee that if that were to happen that the L's would come out of the woodwork..
Honestly don't know the depth of the well. We could never find the damn thing. The house was built before specs like that had to be filed with the town, so there is no record. Nice, huh?
I just hope the water fairies that have been watching over my well for the last dozen years weren't having an affair with x, either. They need to stay here!
Honestly don't know the depth of the well. We could never find the damn thing. The house was built before specs like that had to be filed with the town, so there is no record. Nice, huh?
I just hope the water fairies that have been watching over my well for the last dozen years weren't having an affair with x, either. They need to stay here!
the head should be sticking up out of the ground..Got any idea where the pipe comes into the house??
I'm confused as to why you can't wash your car there. I can see not watering the lawn off your well..each house does have it's own well right?? your not on a community well right?? If you have a well, you should have a bladder tank in the basement and a breaker in the electrical box for the well pump.. it's the way they are here anyway
Silly - I'm blonde, but if the head was sticking up out of the ground, don't you think I would have at least tripped over it during the last dozen years?
Each house does have its own well, all off of the same aquafier. I have small tank and some mechanical thingy (not sure what its called, but it kicks on when the little tank empties) in the basement, and the pump is in the well (somewhere); I hope it never breaks!
We have enough water to take a long shower or bath, but if you run it continuously, like a sprinkler, it can't keep up. The woman next door ran her well dry, and it was a mess! They had to prime it with a hose run to the neighbor's house, and she had brown water for weeks after.
Its like my septic - its old but its working, so I don't want to mess with it.
Silly - I'm blonde, but if the head was sticking up out of the ground, don't you think I would have at least tripped over it during the last dozen years?
well I would have thought so..I guess it could be away from the house but that does not really make sense. If you know where the main pipe comes in you might be able to get someione to trace the line out for you..(well witcher) some laugh I'm sure but I've seen it work..also the line should be about 3 feet underground and lots of times the ground will settle around that line so the ground is indented and you can follow it that way..
Sounds like you may have a not very deep well..Mine was deep, 748 feet, cost me $12k to dig it, but like you I never used mione to water the grass and was really careful with it..My STBXMIL sank one one time because she wanted to keep her place pretty during a drought.. she is a DASTBXMIL by the way..just sayin
Donna,
BTW not all well caps are visible above ground. Ours is completely buried UNDERground as we learned the hard way one winter.
When the pump motor on the well died -- we could NOT find the well cap and it was January -- meaning a snow-covered backyard.
We knew approximately where the well was located-- but we ended up having a lot of the backyard plowed and then DUG UP to find the well.
We live in a large, one level, rambling country house, and in our case, the pipes leading into the house were UNDER the deck that runs along the entire back of our house -- so there was just no real way to discover where that well cap was!
They had metal detectors etc. and tried to pinpoint the location before they started digging for it -- no luck. There was no way to find it except to do a lot of digging.
It turned out to be right in front of the deck outside the MBR. I'm lucky that the well didn't end up being under the deck! The previous owners who'd completely renovated the house and added the MBR and the deck -- could have just as easily ended up making the deck a foot wider and we'd never have found it!
Now it is clearly marked on a map the plumber made for us.
We were just lucky that the people we'd bought from even had a vague idea where the well was or we'd probably have had to excavate the entire property!
Donna,
BTW not all well caps are visible above ground. Ours is completely buried UNDERground as we learned the hard way one winter.
When the pump motor on the well died -- we could NOT find the well cap and it was January -- meaning a snow-covered backyard.
We knew approximately where the well was located-- but we ended up having a lot of the backyard plowed and then DUG UP to find the well.
We live in a large, one level, rambling country house, and in our case, the pipes leading into the house were UNDER the deck that runs along the entire back of our house -- so there was just no real way to discover where that well cap was!
They had metal detectors etc. and tried to pinpoint the location before they started digging for it -- no luck. There was no way to find it except to do a lot of digging.
It turned out to be right in front of the deck outside the MBR. I'm lucky that the well didn't end up being under the deck! The previous owners who'd completely renovated the house and added the MBR and the deck -- could have just as easily ended up making the deck a foot wider and we'd never have found it!
Now it is clearly marked on a map the plumber made for us.
We were just lucky that the people we'd bought from even had a vague idea where the well was or we'd probably have had to excavate the entire property!
wonder why they would bury it?? You got any ideas Summer?? Too bad that they had to dig the property up but I'm glad it's fixed now..Well problems are awful. for sure
Not a clue!
But there are lots of old homes around here so it is not unusual! In our last home, of 16 years, the well cap was definitely above ground and easy to find!
But I've seen well pipes hidden in gardens surrounded by shrubbery etc. and lots of other, let's say unique spots and not easy to find at all.
But I've seen well pipes hidden in gardens surrounded by shrubbery etc. and lots of other, let's say unique spots and not easy to find at all.
oh I understand that. I planted a tall grass like plant in front of mine...I can see them being hid above ground but don't know why it would be buried..some people never think ahead I guess..
Mine is definitely buried. And there is a good shot that x DID cover mine with a deck (ugh!)
So, got home to kids, sat and talked with D for an hour. She had a really hard morning. Poor babe hates school; asked if she could stay home and be homeschooled. She couldn't think of one thing to look forward to over the course of a whole day.
She is so afraid of getting yelled at. If a teacher yells at a student, or even the class as a whole. Brynne feels responsible, and bad. She has always tried to be good, and has often been commended for it and her quietness, her helpfulness to other kids, by all of her teachers. My heart broke for her this morning.
And x, he just says that she is tough. I wonder if he knows this little one at all, the one who always seems to "go with the flow" on the surface.
I spoke with the IC today. She wants me to call a meeting for D's teachers and maybe the guidance counselor right away. She said that I am aware, that I can see what most parents can't, or won't.
She also told me that she spoke with the kids' IC during the week. Their IC was mortified that I was unaware of the kids' appt last week, and that it was at the same time as my appt. She had no idea I was in the very next room, wondering what the he!! was going on. My IC went on to tell her some of the other passive-aggressive moves that x has pulled, so she can be a better IC to my kids.
My IC asked what I wanted to do about what had happened with the appt. I told her I am just going to ignore it. x stayed in the appt with both kids just about the whole time; in fact, I think he even sat with the IC alone for a little while. It might do him some good. And I can make appts for the kids on my own, where I let them go and talk with her alone, where they can really get things out and feel safe. I'll call tomorrow and set up an appt for each of the kids, since both acted out this past week (probably due to me not being at the wedding, the first major family gathering of everyone).
Then, we talked about the email. OT, she agreed with you about Monika and her intentions / motivations. And that it serves as a reminder that she is still dangerous, not to be trusted, a manipulator.
Mike, she laughed at your suggestion to dip the suit in some dump-water!
I'm going to ignore that one, too. IC said, how will it look to x when he gets wind of his gf writing nasty emails to me, and I didn't go running to complain to him about it? That's if he ever finds out; I don't plan on talking about it to anyone who would pass it along. It is just so ridiculous. What a sad, pathetic looser.
I said something else in session today. I was secure in my R & M for more than 20 years. She will NEVER feel secure in theirs!!! How could she possibly? They deserve each other...
I heard AC/DC on the way home from work today: Back in Black.
I cranked it up as loud as I could stand it and sang along, with the wind in my hair and a smile on
Mike, she laughed at your suggestion to dip the suit in some dump-water!
It seems I have a way of making people laugh here/there and everywhere..Maybe that is my purpose..
I heard AC/DC on the way home from work today: Back in Black.
I cranked it up as loud as I could stand it and sang along, with the wind in my hair and a smile on \:\)
my kind of woman...good on you..I love it
I was secure in my R & M for more than 20 years. She will NEVER feel secure in theirs!!! How could she possibly? They deserve each other...
Donna, brilliantly put! I feel exactly the same way. I sometimes wonder if us LBS cycle together at times. Look at how many of us are now at the same point with this journey. As sad as it is, we have fianlly been driven to detach completely and let go of our WAS. There is a sence of freedom with that as well, along with the what if's. I am learning each day to no longer think of the what if's, just to be grateful for the what I haves!
I blew the day. It seems to be a pattern, and not one I want to keep up with. Just not sure how it got away from me so quickly (although I did hit the bank, but that is about it).
I wasn't even very thorough with the boards or online stuff. I didn't even survive today; just was.
I did get a call from a DB friend last night (thanks, K!). I hope I didn't get her down; there are still a few (maybe more than a few) things that can trigger some grieving. I was actually a little surprised at how emotional I got a few times, but that is because there was some looking back on my part.
I noticed that I don't get wound up when I am looking forward, which is good.
Well, off to church in a bit, then to see my son race BMX.
Hey Donna..
Grieving is good. Wallowing (something I'm good at) not so good.
As I recall there were lots of long bouts of laughter. What can be better!
*hugs*
**hugs** backatcha...
The day was much more productive. Up and laundry, off to get some muffins for church (MIL & I hosted coffee), then services. I was so tired I think I almost fell asleep standing up! I didn't go to bed too late, so I must just not have slept very well.
Home and straightening. FIL came over to help me euthanize S's pet rat. The poor thing developed a rapid-growth cyst on her neck. S knew about it; we actually talked about it Thurs and Fri of last week. He was trying to figure out what to do - another loss for him, but in the end, he saw that holding onto her, even if we put her through surgery, would be more for him than her, so he finally asked me to take care of it while he was at his dad's.
I did get an email from x yesterday morning:
so you hear it from me first and not the kids...i close on a house in town in a few weeks. they know and are excited. i also started the QDRO for the annuity money. it should take a few weeks to complete and will cost between 1000 and 1400. i will let you know when i have to give the lawer any money.
I responded with "Thanks for the heads-up." I think that was pretty neutral.
He emailed again later in the day after taking D to her follow-up Dr appt that she was clear of the ear infection and could get off the antibiotics. I replied that that was good news, she is sick of being sick.
The kids went with him and her with her clan to the homecoming parade yesterday, and today he took my kids with her one (the one friends with my D) out hiking.
This is going to be my kids' lives. And mine.
I'm not feeling any hostility (or, not very much) about the whole thing...more like, resigned. Defeated. There seems to be a very small line between acceptance and failure/defeat.
It feels like every day cements this more firmly in place. He is pushing forward, and I have to on my own.
More sadness...
I know that there is no statistical possibility that my family will be restored, that I will have a chance to build a new R with this man. We don't talk or interact at all, anymore. I know that I am standing at that door that I left open, if only a crack, straining to see him as he fades further and further into the distance.
He's not like so many of the WAS's here who screw up their lives immeasurably after a divorce. He will work hard to make this new family structure work. I think he will have a good life, despite how that R started. She and her kids will be better for it; he will be very good to them. And he will continue to be a good father to his kids. He isn't going to fall apart.
And all I can do is take the lessons I learned and try to move forward, myself. Into a new life, one that I make on my own. Letting go of the fantasy that he may be part of it with me, again someday. He won't.
I wonder if there will ever be a time when I am ok with all of this, how it all worked out. If I will ever not be sad or cry when I think of him...
At least my kids will be ok....
Quit trying to win. Love isn't that kind of game.
Hugs, Donna!
I feel your pain. It has to be SO hard to see it all unfolding. You did so well in not getting into it, not making a big deal out of it all. Not putting your kids in the middle.
I did not have to experience this. The OW crap was horrifying enough. My kids were older and chose not to be involved with her. 7 years later - it remains this way.
I guess the good part is that she is nice to your kids. That your D has a friend to do things with. Not much comfort, I'm sure but it is good to build on the positives.
Take care, I just wanted to let you know that I'm listening and understand,
Barb
No, my kids really don't have much of a say in if they are involved with her; they are just too young. And I think she will bend over backwards to be nice to them, if for no other reason than to look better than me.
D told me that he can call the house "theirs" on the 24th. He will move in first, and her and her kids "not for a while." I assume not before her divorce is final, if for no other reason than alimony purposes.
I guess I am just looking at all this, thinking I can't believe that this is the way it all ends. Not a glance back, not a second thought....nothing. He got the idea in his head and went full speed ahead, without a second thought back. In fact, any thoughts he might have had were squashed by his self-validations and rewriting history.
It makes me so sad that I mattered so little to him. That he can just walk away from 22 years.
I was one of those people that Gigi wrote about, who thinks that if they just follow all the steps, they can really stop a divorce. That there is something that we can do.
As much as I am happy to discover and learn about myself, I can't help but be sad that we weren't able to do that together. I do understand the mistakes that I made, and am working hard on them....I just don't think I will ever understand how I was too late...I don't understand how you walk away without giving the person you made a commitment to, a chance.
*******
I had a long meeting with my student teacher and the first-year teacher that I am mentoring after school today. They are both so young (23), just at the start of their lives. They live with their parents but are trying to save and get out into the world on their own. They are focused on their careers, on their friends and family....I wish I could be them, some days, with my whole life before me like that. I would definitely start saving right away (just told them today about the power of compound interest). They put their love lives on hold--too much a distraction for them right now.
I got home, picked up the kids and got McD's for dinner (I was home about an hour later than I planned on, and S had scouts). D and I went out to see Beverly Hills Chihuahua together - very cute movie.
My babes are tucked into their own beds, and here I am, wondering (or lamenting) how my life turned out this way.
I promise you who had many second thoughts and cared deeply for you. Just because things didn't work out the way you would have liked does not mean that it was easy for him or that he didn't care about you.
Donna - I hear your pain and can not imagine how hard it must be to move on with his parents so close to you. How can you detach? How can you change your focus to just you? He is no longer thinking about you, hon, he has moved on. How can you do this? I just want to see the best for you. You are such a beautiful soul and deserve better than to be dragged along. I hate that you still feel so much pain from his actions. You desrve better and once you finally let go you will get better. I know you love him, but the person who left is no longer him. He has changed, he has turned into an alien. Statistically speaking he left one relationship, what makes you think he will make this one built from deciet work? Most end miserable and the ones that go on to marry end horribly as well. You got the good years, the years where he was hopeful and had drive and wonder. He no longer has those things and is jaded. She gets the broken him now. He takes from her to feel good and she takes from him as well. Healthy relationships are built on giving, this is not their dynamic. This is why so many A relationships fail so often. Move on and know the this too will pass and you will be ok.
((Donna)) I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.
Donna,
Likewise. Let him go. It's tough when HIS parents are living with YOU! (You KNOW I don't get that, but that's just me) What kind of guy buys a house and lets his parents stay with his ex-wife? WHAT???
You really seem to be so level headed, and are always super-reflective. Close down the "he's coming back" stuff. I know it's hard. Detaching from his family is tough when his parents are constantly around you. Not to be harsh, but have they come up with any idea to "get a place of their own?" That would certainly give you more opportunity to detach.
No, my kids really don't have much of a say in if they are involved with her; they are just too young. And I think she will bend over backwards to be nice to them, if for no other reason than to look better than me.
D told me that he can call the house "theirs" on the 24th. He will move in first, and her and her kids "not for a while." I assume not before her divorce is final, if for no other reason than alimony purposes.
I guess I am just looking at all this, thinking I can't believe that this is the way it all ends. Not a glance back, not a second thought....nothing. He got the idea in his head and went full speed ahead, without a second thought back. In fact, any thoughts he might have had were squashed by his self-validations and rewriting history.
It makes me so sad that I mattered so little to him. That he can just walk away from 22 years.
I was one of those people that Gigi wrote about, who thinks that if they just follow all the steps, they can really stop a divorce. That there is something that we can do.
As much as I am happy to discover and learn about myself, I can't help but be sad that we weren't able to do that together. I do understand the mistakes that I made, and am working hard on them....I just don't think I will ever understand how I was too late...I don't understand how you walk away without giving the person you made a commitment to, a chance.
*******
I had a long meeting with my student teacher and the first-year teacher that I am mentoring after school today. They are both so young (23), just at the start of their lives. They live with their parents but are trying to save and get out into the world on their own. They are focused on their careers, on their friends and family....I wish I could be them, some days, with my whole life before me like that. I would definitely start saving right away (just told them today about the power of compound interest). They put their love lives on hold--too much a distraction for them right now.
I got home, picked up the kids and got McD's for dinner (I was home about an hour later than I planned on, and S had scouts). D and I went out to see Beverly Hills Chihuahua together - very cute movie.
My babes are tucked into their own beds, and here I am, wondering (or lamenting) how my life turned out this way.
Donna, these thoughts enter my mind also. All the time. They are like flashes/short dream sequences throughout the day. IMO our spouses are sick, they are quitters. YOU and I deserve better. hang in there.
I had someone remind me that pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional.
I also know that feelings follow thought.
So, I have to change my thinking. I need to write out, think about how this R and M is not what I would want for myself, anymore. That the dynamic has changed, time has passed, and only one party has any interest in having it any different. In other words, impossible. Not to be again.
I know that I keep taking the 20+ years that I did know, that I did have, and trying to apply that to a "maybe" in the future. I DENY the reality of the present. I JUSTIFY the actions that he has taken, finding the cause of them, forgiving them. It is that I see the potential for a different future, and keep trying to bend this whole situation to my will. Damn the optimist in me; it isn't serving me a damn bit of good right now.
I had my faults. I read mastateflower's post, and I know what I did wrong. I took my M for granted, I took the truth for granted, the commitment for granted. I got busy and didn't devote enough time to my partner. I didn't do all the little things to show him that I was thinking of him. I excused his friendships with women as him just being a good, caring guy - one I was proud of because of his giving heart, his intelligence, his charm, and his good looks. I didn't want to be the needy, jealous wife - but I never questioned why he would feel the need to have those friendships to begin with. I didn't look to see what needs I wasn't meeting for him. I didn't push to get to the hard stuff. I was blissfully ignorant. I asked about it, but went along with his initial wishful thinking that all was good in the world. I did not recognize his most important love language - acts of service - and do those things for him (I didn't equate that with showing love, so didn't understand when he asked me for this). When he did these, I thought of it as something for the family, or for himself; not as an expression of love to me.
But what he did, things that I should have ingrained in my brain and make me unwilling to have him in my life at all if I had any self-respect:
--MOST IMPORTANT: He stopped talking to me. He is afraid of conflict and would rather placate me than deal with issues that came up with him. He stuffed his resentments. He "went to bed angry," when I never gave him reason to think I wouldn't listen to him and try to fix things if we talked it out. I never expected us to not disagree on some things. I shared, so I thought he would, too.
--He looked outside of the marriage to have needs met.
--He lied. Alot. About SO many things. He kept parts of his life, his feelings, secret from me, when we had promised to share them all.
--He planned and sneaked around to have an affair. He "got rid of me" at times.
--He set up a private email and kept the cell records from me. When I was fooling around one day to guess his password (I didn't even guess that this would be a big deal), he exploded on me and said I was terrible for not respecting his privacy.
--He was one of two who ripped my family, and another family with kids, apart - complete selfishness, without regard with even the kids or any other consequences.
--He rewrote history to support his choices, destroying the good that was in our marriage for himself and anyone who will listen to him. He has told mutual friends that "it had to happen this way." At least one of our friends told him that was bullsh!t.
--He left me when I was at my weakest. The more I needed him, the colder and meaner he became. I really think there were times that he left me to die, and told himself that he wouldn't be responsible if I did.
--He broke his vows and all his promises. His I Love Yous turned to lies.
--He twisted his perception of me to justify why he wouldn't work on the M; to him, I became a monster he had to escape. Later on, he just saw me as "psychotic."
--He discounted all the ways I did love him and show it - buying things with him in mind, holding him and physical affection, the I Love Yous, being interested in his life and listening/supporting him, telling him about all the things I loved and admired about him, wanting and trying to spend time with him where he was (often just in front of the tv he parked himself in front of).
--He made me believe that I was a terrible person for more than 8 months while the affair was going on - watched me turn myself inside-out as I tried to change to be what he wanted, while lying about the affair. Whenever I fixed something, he would come up with a new reason.
--When I questioned his friendship with this woman, I was made to feel crazy and controlling when I asked him to back off - I actually felt sorry for her, knew that she had a crush on him, and asked him not to send confusing signals (!) He told me that he had few friends, and that he was "loyal" to the few he had.
--He left me, a huge issue in itself, my essential core fear in life. Abandoned. Rejected as a person.
--He never gave me another chance once I knew there were problems-he was already gone.
--He refused to listen to me, talk with anyone else, read a book or see a therapist past 2 sessions (when, my IC suspects, she started to go into his contributions to the problems in the M). He won't look at it, thinking he will be "brainwashed." He doesn't want to change his mind.
--He made this choice, even though he knew it would hurt his children
--He made this choice, even though he knew that he was a role model for our kids and the choices they might make in the future.
--He made this choice, even though he knew it would make our standard of living much lower (for everyone), and hurt the kids' options for extra things like trips, classes, lessons, college, etc. in the future.
--He made this choice, even though he knew it would hurt his family and friends - everything would change. No one will ever look at him the same way again.
--He bought gifts and funded part of his affair with family money and put some of it on MY credit card.
--He carried out some of the affair IN my house, under my nose, some while I was cleaning up from dinner and putting our children to bed.
--He disrespected me in all the ways someone can be disrespected.
--While still in the M and before the bomb, there were times when he tried to coerce me into a sexual act that hurt me, then made me feel guilty when I said no.
--While still in the M, he would often wake me from sleep for sex - at the time, I thought he was just overcome by love for me, or had a wonderful dream. In reality, he just didn't want to make a deep connection, or talk - he was using me.
--While still in the M, he made me feel guilty for any time I was sitting reading or working on my computer (often for grad school, sometimes just because I liked it and needed down time). He made me feel guilty about spending any money on myself or things to decorate the house. I would go a year between hair cuts, and felt like crap if I bought clothes for myself. I am not a good /interested housekeeper, and he refused to let me get a service, saying it was a waste of HIS money (even though I worked). Then, my lack of skills and the resultant state of the house was chalked up to my laziness and not caring about HIM, not loving him.
--While still in the M, he hid and lied about explicit and disturbing pornography that I stumbled across one day when he forgot to put it back in the ceiling. He said he only read the articles (this from a man who doesn't read). Again, made me feel guilty for getting upset about it, so we wouldn't talk about it. He just threw them away. Feeling bad, I tried to meet this need by writing erotic stories for him. They were received lukewarmly.
--While still in the M, he refused to do some things with me that I expressed were life-dreams (learning to dance, travel to Europe), while I tried to participate and encourage his (buying and riding the motorcycle, even though I was scared of the highway and got very sore after more than 2 hours). We met camping, but he never even wanted to go for a walk after dinner, let alone ride a bike or go kayaking.
--He is still currently trying to hurt me, telling me lies designed to criticize and crush my self-worth, self-esteem and my support systems so he can feel better about himself and his choices - how could the Hero leave a good person? I have to be the crazy, messed up one for his life to make sense...
--He has threatened to kill me (if I turned his children against him).
--He has shown and been violent around me - shaking with clenched fists, punching a hole in a door, punching my car, punching the tractor, leaving skid marks in my driveway that are still there almost a year later (I was standing right next to the car), calling the police rather than talking to me.
--He blames me for his parents not talking to him; he can't accept that it is because of his actions.
--He takes responsibility for his lack of communication skills, but blames me for not "knowing" what was wrong, for not being able to read his mind. "If we had really had the connection that I said we had, I would have known he was miserable." He says that I didn't respect him or have him as a priority (tells me what I was feeling, which is untrue), that I took advantage of him.
--He cheated on me with someone who I've known for 12 years, someone we vacationed with, someone who babysat my kids. I remember telling him about my fears of this ever happening (before the truth finally came out), how this very thing had happened in the house I grew up in - neighbors caught in an affair left my house vacant, and I grew up friends with the boy whose father had left and whose mother languished in a deep depression for years.
--Only three months after the divorce is final, he is buying a house with the Other Woman, and will have my children "blended" in with hers.
I think I have to do this more often. I have to write this out, re-read this, let my logical thoughts overcome some of the fantasy, denial-based, optimistic thinking.
Donna,
In what ways did your XM really not work for you?
I guess I am just looking at all this, thinking I can't believe that this is the way it all ends. Not a glance back, not a second thought....nothing. He got the idea in his head and went full speed ahead, without a second thought back. In fact, any thoughts he might have had were squashed by his self-validations and rewriting history.
It makes me so sad that I mattered so little to him. That he can just walk away from 22 years.
I was one of those people that Gigi wrote about, who thinks that if they just follow all the steps, they can really stop a divorce. That there is something that we can do.
As much as I am happy to discover and learn about myself, I can't help but be sad that we weren't able to do that together. I do understand the mistakes that I made, and am working hard on them....I just don't think I will ever understand how I was too late...I don't understand how you walk away without giving the person you made a commitment to, a chance.
Donna,
There is so much in the last line I quoted above. My wonderful new W says you either have the committment "gene" in you or not.... I firmly believe while we ALL were not perfect spouses... Our spouses chose to leave instead of doing the "hard work".... We can rattle off loads of modern psychobabble... In the end, they frankly are cowards...
I pray you find all the very best....
RMG
RMG-I can't believe how much this surprised me, how out of character it seems, coming from him. More than 20 years, and I never thought this was even a remote possibility. Naive? Well, now I am jaded, I guess.
OT...I am thinking about that, trying to look at it without the "fairytale." I'll try to write about it later....
RMG-I can't believe how much this surprised me, how out of character it seems, coming from him. More than 20 years, and I never thought this was even a remote possibility. Naive? Well, now I am jaded, I guess.
Donna,
Jaded.... That is totally me.... It may sound corny.... I really believed my exW and I really loved each other... We would be together forever.... I knew we would have bumps in the road.....
BTW, I found a letter of hers from back in the Summer of 1994... She wrote about how much she "loved me and was so afraid to lose me again"......... What can I say? That woman is dead and buried... My new life goes on... Yet, that is still the HARDEST part.....
RMG
Donna,
My $.02 - Re-read your previous post and pretend it is from someone else...what would your advise to them be?
Hope you are having more good days than bad.
Take care, SD
I'll match superdad's 2 cents.
You are right, SD. My head knows the answer...my heart is slow to catch up. That is the running theme in my whole mess and my reactions to it.
So, in what ways was my XM not working for me:
This is really hard. I think I made it work for me. I romanticized it.
I did think I was with someone with values similar to mine. Besides the obvious, I am also very service-minded. I was a Girl Scout leader in college, then again with my daughter. When my son started scouts, I tried to hang back, thinking x would want to be a leader like his own father was for over 25 years. He complained about the program, but refused to step up and do something about it. Finally, reluctantly, he took on asst leader, still complaining. I bit my tongue and let it go.
He did support me while I took a class in grassroots civic leadership. After the baby was born, he would watch her while I was in class, bringing her to me when she needed to nurse. I graduated at the state Capital, sitting in the Senator's seats. My picture (with my 3 month old on my lap) was on the front page of the paper. I joined AmeriCorp soon after, and went to training in VA (he accused me of having an affair while I was away--this when he was re-writing history, just before the truth came out and after the bomb, 8 YEARS after I went to train!).
One of the things he actually faulted me for was my involvement in service - I wasn't taking care of him or the house, took too much time, he wasn't "a priority."
As an artist, my first real inspiration was Michaelangelo's works. I have wanted to go see these in person since I was 17. It was never on the radar as possible in my M. He asserted that he was more interested in seeing our country first.
He did get me a coffee table book at some point (now I can't remember if I picked it out...?)
Since we moved into this house 12 years ago, I have been waiting to have "my" room, a sun room, finished. It was for my studio space. He got as far as skylights, but gutted and left the rest to storage and a general mess. I am getting someone in to finish the work very soon.
I felt like I had to fish for compliments when I went out of my way to look nice. I felt guilty for wishing that I would get some of the "traditional" woman gifts like jewelry and flowers (flowers were delivered on occasion, once at my job, and I was ecstatic!).
(note to self - this reflects my self-esteem, and feeling good when my relationship was validated or "proved" - I don't know if I ever believed my good fortune for having him as my H.)
He didn't read anything but the paper. Although his parents read daily and always have a book open, he hated to see me sitting and reading, especially when he saw "other things I should be doing."
I told him things that I would appreciate, be turned on by, like dancing (Dirty Dancing was a favorite movie of mine, but jokes from my dad and x made it feel stupid). Writing something, like he used to when we were first dating. And even then, it was hard for him. Even find a poem or something already written to share. He said that he already did so much for me; how could I ask for more?
I always liked working together. Any work that was boring or overwhelming to me, seemed easier to do with company. They didn't even have to pitch in, just sit and lend moral support. He thought that was a waste of time - we could be getting twice as much done. Then we'd have time "together." (I guess watching more tv?)
I hate complaining like this....
I find myself wanting to list all the things I DID get from the marriage...not something I need to go into right now. But there were good things...
OK, what else?
Ugh, this is enough for now. I will have to keep thinking. I have been trying to write this for 4 hours, now. Work tomorrow.
Hey Ms. Donna..
Good to see you and read how your awareness is unfolding.
Looking from the outside in, I don't see complaining... just processing. My spouse used to say I was a "go along, get along" type of person in a way that made me feel bad. And you know what.. I was. I'd rather keep the surface smooth and be troubled within rather than risk my greatest fears.
Oops.
Here's a thought to toss in as you process. Your ex-husband's decision created enormous upheaval and change.
How are you the same?
How are you different?
What are the most surprising aspects you've discovered about yourself?
If you could go back in time to the marriage 'after the kiss' without your newfound growth and understanding knowing what you know now.. would you? Why or why not?
*hugs*
Donna,
Reading the list you posted a while back, I'm trying to figure where the good parts of the marriage were. Porn in the ceiling? You went a year between haircuts? YOU didn't clean the house? Was he paralyzed or just disinterested in a clean house? For years, I was up to my elbows in the toilets on Saturday! Weird sex acts? Couldn't sit at the computer wihtout feeling guilty? I think you have rose colored Hubble telescope glasses on!
As I went back and read what I wrote last night/this morning (ugh, 4 hours of sleep is not enough), I had a thought...
his acting ability has been honed throughout our entire relationship. He was always there to help me.
I wonder how much he did from his heart, and how much he did out of expectations from myself and others.
I look back and remember him always being there to support and help me.
I was in the Senior Class and Student Council in high school. I started a fundraiser to purchase Thanksgiving Baskets for needy families in our community. And there are pictures of the two of us, putting the baskets together. I was awarded the Gold Award in scouts. He never advanced past First Class (personal recognition wasn't important to him).
He was there all through college, acting as my "studio assistant" while I did my artwork. He went right to work after high school, quickly becoming the shop foreman at a ridiculously young age. I loved that he was a natural leader. But we saw each other often, just about every single weekend. I actually chose my school so I was within driving distance, and went home every weekend instead of hanging with my friends. I didn't drink, so that part of it wasn't missed, but in looking back, I did forego making closer friendships with more people - I have regrets about that. I went home for him, and for my sister (to be her Girl Scout leader). I think I felt bad that I had left her there when I went to college. We are 10 years apart, and I helped raise her; mom was an alcoholic.
X didn't go out with "the buds." He hung with his family, mostly. He was on the phone with me a lot, and working. He hadn't liked school, and only had two or three friends that he kept in touch with after high school. He didn't just go over to be with them...
I adopted his dream that we would travel America on his motorcycle, tent and backpack. I drew pictures of our little cape on a lake, with a canoe and white picket fence.
His world revolved around me and our families. When we went out, it was as a couple, with his sibs, or with my friends. He didn't like most of my friends from college, especially the guys. I remember sitting and talking about "the meaning of life" with them until 3 or 4 in the morning, and X would be amazed and a little disgusted that they couldn't fix a flat on their cars. He could (and did) fix everything. He and I didn't have as many deep conversations, and ones we did were initiated by me.
X and I married a week after I graduated college.
We traveled by car to Maine without reservations or an itinerary. It was beautiful, and free, and what we thought it would always be like between us - discovering new places together, walking hand in hand.
We adopted a puppy on our way home. I stayed at home for about 6 months afterwards, blanketing the Island with resumes while I trained the dog and "played house." I finally got work through a temp agency.
Life revolved around family, a few select friends, work and us. My dad died. The first baby was on the way, and we decided to move with my mother and sister into a new house - we needed the downpayment, she needed help with the monthly expenses and getting out of a bad neighborhood.
We were a couple, almost always. Fast forward through 2 kids...
I remember that once the kids were older, I started to reach out into service again. I made new friends. I went out. I encouraged him to find a hobby, to go out with friends on his own. I reminded him to call his old buddies, which he would do, sometimes.
I was surprised one day when I asked for help hanging an art show, and he got upset - aren't there parents in that school to help, or the other teachers? I chalked up a lot to him being so tired all of the time, now. He had bad back problems and was often in pain. He got up at 4:30 am to go to work...
******
Were we always mismatched? Did he just fit himself into the mold of what I wanted and expected from him? What everyone had always expected of him?
People in our neighborhood all called him Superman....he told me during this mess that he didn't want to be Superman anymore, that he had found his kryptonite....
He said he had been pretending for a very long time.
I think as authentic as I always was, X would bend himself into the position of the Good Guy, of the Hero.
I don't know if it was an equal partnership. X said I loved him not for himself, but for what he could do for me.
But when he didn't do something for me, I didn't love him less....
I loved HIM. At least the him he let me see.....
****
I feel like I am close to something, here...
time to put it away and look at it later.
I didn't think I could live life, survive life, on my own. And X filled in the spaces, helped me, supported me, shored up my self-esteem and helped me. When I took on too much, he was my extra set of hands. In areas that I knew nothing, he had the knowledge (fixing and building things, directions, etc.) I thought we complimented each other so well, each filling in the gaps of the other. Together, we were whole.
I really have to stop thinking about the man I created him out to be and in all honesty, he really wasn't
I just saw this on a thread....seems to be a theme.
Very true, Donna!
Love is blind and all that. And I think it is even more so when we have been with these men since being teenagers.
Quote:
I really have to stop thinking about the man I created him out to be and in all honesty, he really wasn't
Hi Donna , had a good read through your last couple of posts and I think you realy nailed it , I can see a lot of my W in how your H is and I would bet that there are plenty of others on this board who would be the same.
I think that there is only a small proportion of people who go through a break up that would end up going through the efforts that most that come here do to save thier R. Generaly the people here are the much stronger party in thier R even if they did not feel that way at the time.
For example in most cases here there is OM or OW involved. The WAS having got involved with the other party to find something they needed or wanted. They did this while in an R with someone who still cared for them. Yet I see many people here who will not go down that path , even though thier partner is with OM or OW . That shows real strength.
I think my W was like your H , trying to be the person she thought others expected her to be , rather than be herself.
Its great to see you strong Donna
Dave
DAVE! So glad to see you, my friend - you were missed!
I am feeling stronger and trying to really dig deeper, for myself.
I am off to IC, and I think we have a lot to talk about.....
Just back, and I have to nap. It took me more than 4 hours last night to write that last long post. It is a very hard question for me to deal with, and there is a lot going on in there.
I copied my last 2 threads and brought them with me to IC.
These are themes that we have touched on before, but from a different place.
What she'd like me to do:
1. Keep that list of his wrongs with me - next to the bed, in my planner, on my laptop, etc. Reread as needed / when I get weaker.
2. Be careful of the increase in contact from him (there has been more emails because of his buying the house and settling the last of the D agreement). Use the 24 hour rule, keep all emotion out of it.
3. Don't push through the new realizations about the marriage too quickly. So much of it was influenced and skewed by my family of origin and being ACOA. This is the next week we are gearing up for, as I get stronger. We'll look at those issues and finally start dealing with them for good. I had a glimpse of that today. She wants the learning and realizations to come from within me, not be influenced too much by the board and friends.
4. Try not to react with my kids about X trying to pull the Brady Bunch thing. Yes, they are adaptable and trying to make the best of it (when I wish they would be more reluctant), but they aren't all living together yet, and my kids don't realize that he will be full-time with someone else's kids, but part-time with his own. Let it lay, just be there for him.
5. Get with MIL about not using me as an excuse to avoid conflict with her son. The subject has already been broached with FIL, who assures me its not. He said he appreciated my telling them that I wanted to lean on them less, so they could work out their Rs with their kids. He just asked that I give them a heads-up if I am going to be out late - he is still a dad, and worries.
6. Make plans now for Thanksgiving. I'm not going to the X's family overnight/reunion; I know that, now. So, I'll look to see who of family/friends might be around, or maybe work in a soup kitchen....
Donna,
The trauma you and I have been through is equivalent to a car accident or PTSD. Our serene world that we loved was ripped out from under us. I think the list of bad things is a great idea. It's easier said than done. I get that. Hav a good weekend. Thanksgiving used to be my favorite hoilday of the year. We'd travel to her Dad's on the Cape and have a great time. She MUST have been very unhappy to give up all of that. Maybe it's just me.
The unhappiness that they felt - I still feel guilty about that. I never wanted him to be unhappy or hurt. It was unintentional, I think from both (most) of us. But it was there. My x gave up his home, his money, time with kids, his parents, his integrity and standing, the list goes on and on. But given his options, he feels that this is the better one for him. That shows me how much he was hurting.
The main difference is in how each partner in the marriage deals with the pain. The people who leave feel that that is the only option. We see chances to work it out, that love can be restored. It is a difference in values. And I don't think any of us can influence that.
As for us, PTSD....I really think so. It was what I suffered through, I am pretty sure. And like recovery of that, at first the "re-enactment" happens randomly, then only from certain triggers. I hope to build up tolerance to exposure, so sometime in the future I can work with this man around kids' issues.
Donna,
The trauma you and I have been through is equivalent to a car accident or PTSD. Our serene world that we loved was ripped out from under us. I think the list of bad things is a great idea. It's easier said than done. I get that. Hav a good weekend. Thanksgiving used to be my favorite hoilday of the year. We'd travel to her Dad's on the Cape and have a great time. She MUST have been very unhappy to give up all of that. Maybe it's just me.
FLTC,
PTSD.... I totally agree....
As for giving up Thanksgiving traditions.... Let me see... ExW and I used to go to Cracker Barrel with SIL and BIL....
Last year, I went there with my "new" family including Wifey... I was just sitting there... Wifey and I were being a little touchy feely.... I look over... Looking STRAIGHT at me is former BIL!
I assume exW was there as well... I did not even bother to look..... I just smiled and continued on....
The funny thing is we used to linger at the gift shop for at least 30 minutes..... I looked up and all of them blazed out of there like there was a fire...
Take Care,
RMG
Donna,
They really view the world differently than us. I was unhappy, because she was unhappy and took it out on me. I was a beaten dog, but would never think of leaving. I was convinced I would never have sex again, but that was OK as long as the "family was together". Maybe, I'M the crazy one.
Each of us crazy in our own way.
Keeping this very brief tonight; I'm tired. Had a great day with the kids.
Spoke with x on Thurs and realized just how over it is. No fight, no flare up....just recognized that he is in the same place and may never move or wake up, and that I don't want someone like that in my life.
Emailed back and forth with my estranged sister a little over the last month; we are both dealing with how our past has influenced our outlooks on life, and both trying hard to become better people. We can't do that together right now, but "it is what it is," and I can live with it.
My next issue will be trying to figure out how to deal with gf issue. Her H was home this weekend, and at one point, I had 3 of her 4 girls visiting at my house. My D slept over their house Fri night. It is too bizarre on SO many levels. It will be better when they move. But I think her stbxh might keep the house...
Spoke with my friend down the street. She told me that X is sick of "hiding and sneaking around" from his family of origin, and they will either accept his life as he chooses it to be, with the gf, or he doesn't need them - that is directed mostly to his own parents. Sad to hear, but I'm not surprised. All between all of them. It is his path, as I told him Thursday.
I sat down with the kids tonight, setting up a schedule for fun, homework and chores for ALL of us, so I can get on top of this house in a better way. I am determined to learn how to do this, although it is something I have struggled my whole life with. And hopefully, my kids will learn something by it, too.
My goal: to feel comfortable - even great - when anyone pops over to visit. Kids' friends, my friends, whoever. Down to the guest accomodations, if we ever need it at a moments' notice. FlyLady has her job cut out for her! I dealt with my ADD/creative&cluttered ways by knowing that my H was there to help me out - I don't have that, anymore, so now I have to learn to do it on my own. This is who I am, so I have to find a way to work with it, no more dependence on someone else.
The kids' biggest contribution will be to just pick up after themselves, once a day for 15 minutes. I can't come home to the paths of destruction that they leave in their wake with everything they do....
Well, off to bed before I crash...
Donna,
I've never seen on a tombstone or in an obit, "She kept a very clean house." You are doing a lot -- working, taking care of the kids, house, yard. Personally, I rarely invite anyone in, but if I do, I assume that they are there to visit us, not to judge my housekeeping skills. It would be nice if the house were picked up, but unless they give me 2 days notice that they are coming, it isn't.
Donna, I cant imagine how hard it must be to have OW so involved in your life right now. You have been doing great and I can hear the strength coming from you. I am so impressed with how detached you are getting in this sitch, especially having in-laws right there. Keep up working on yourself and GAL.
Donna,
I have been reading your thread and wanted to pop by and tell you thank you for your continued input on my thread.
I now see why you seem to be such a kindred spirit. Our H's could be twins! They seem to have the same issues and lack of moral character. Go figure!
I certainly have no advice as I'm still a total mess myself. I just want to let you know I'm here reading and appreciating the breakthrough's you are having. You give me hope.
I have to catch up with you all...I'll try to read tonight. Just plowing ahead with my head down for a while, I guess...
Trying to set up some GAL for this Saturday in NYC...dinner & a show. Hope it pans out - I'm looking forward to it! Anyone else going to be in town?
I wish! I love NYC! I haven't been there in over 8 years. It was so great on the weekend without the craziness of the commuters in town.
Good luck! What show are you shooting for?
"...Spoke with x on Thurs..."
Just wondering, about what?
He needed the 07 tax returns for the closing on his house.
He was SO nice to me (cause he needed something) - admitted to that fact when he got what he wanted and called back. I tried to talk to him about how S was feeling about the move, how he felt he couldn't talk to him, that things weren't as sunny as he would like to think. I was hoping that it being about his son would make him more opening to listening, but in the end, he just said he wouldn't believe any of it unless the kids told him directly. Um, that's the point! They WON'T tell him directly, they can't...he's the one who walked away!! Even from his own parents!
Ugh, doesn't matter. I told him that I have gotten used to picking up the pieces of the mess he leaves behind; I'm getting pretty good at it. I'll just keep doing that. It was just an exercise in circles and his mental gymnastics again, and I'm too tired to try to show him some other possibility, some reality.
No, the kids have me, and they have their therapist. You can't pick your parents.
On a kind of funny note...I went out with MIL for a little while today, leaving the kids with FIL. D had gf's D over to play for a while...as soon as I pulled in, she called her D to come home! I just had to laugh - apparently, her D is not to be around me, since I won't let my kids around her when I have the option!
Her D told my D that their divorce was final this past Tues. There is no record of that in the court system; no motions or dates since July. Someone is lying to somebody....
whatever.
Hmmmmm.....very interesting. The kids think it's final, the court doesn't? Yup. Someone is full of crap!
I'm sorry he used his "whiles" on you, but at least you are fully aware of them.
Keep that chin up. You are an amazingly strong woman.
I took the kids to pick pumpkins and apples today. We shopped for mums and decorations for the fall, Halloween, D's costume. We bought salmon and a lobster for dinner. It was a great way to wrap up the long weekend...I am so lucky to have these kids in my life. They are really great people.
Some semblence of order seems to have come to the house, although I still have laundry to do, and the floor needs to be vacuumed. All in all, I am pretty content with myself. What a strange thing....I can't really describe the feeling.
OK, the nerd just came out in me.....ever seen the Matrix?
Neo realizes that he is the One when he can look and see the code behind the facade--he not only knows the truth, but can use that for his own purpose, like stopping bullets that are about to rip into him. He looks at his own hand in amazement, while fighting with the other.
THAT's the feeling I have right now.
Ugh, I am SUCH a nerd. Cause more than once, I have seen the resemblence of x to Anikan/Darth Vader....I was hoping to be the one to "see" the good in him, help him remember, but maybe it will take his son. Maybe he will never see it.
OK, I should shut up, or I will never get a date!
Sometimes, songs will randomly pop up into my head. I don't know if I have ever consciously thought about the lyrics, but I am finding that when I do look them up, they seem to say things that are under the surface, somewhere...
This just came "in:"
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
So close no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words I don't just say
And nothing else matters
Trust I seek and I find in you
Everyday for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
But I know
So close no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
But I know
(Bridge)
Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words I don't just say
And nothing else matters
Trust I seek and I find in you
Everyday for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they say
Never cared for games they play
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
And I know, yeah, yeah!
(Solo)
So close no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
No, nothing else matters
I just want to journal it for now. I should keep track of these things......
Good idea to stop trying to manage X's R with S.
It really will be for the best if the kids will talk to him directly. Maybe the best thing to do is to convey the info to the kids' C.
Donna,
I'm with oldtimer. I see a clandestine motive to talk to your XH by using your son's feelings as a conduit. Not rying to be harsh, but direct. Bottom line: stop looking at court records, stop trying to talk to husband. These things only mentally delay your closure.
This is my closure. I don't want to talk to him, that's the thing. But I don't know if I can slam the door shut without getting this all out. I am not sending it anywhere except the IC, just wrote it. I want the damn sh!t out of my head.
My son did write his dad a letter. He is mailing it tomorrow. I haven't read it.
****This is very long....
What to say….
I always choke up around you, seem to go over the same old stuff and never get past it. You said that you want to get past it, and this is the only way I can think of to do it.
Have you asked people who know and love you, even longer than I have, what they feel about your recent choices for your life?
Have you shown them that you would be OPEN to hear their viewpoints and not shut them out or throw away the relationship if you don’t like what you hear?
What would YOU say about a man who left his wife of 16 years after an affair of at least a year was discovered?
Who snuck around, lied, and cheated on her, all the while telling her that he loved her?
Who did not say one thing to another person about what he was doing or contemplating, to try to get advice or help? Knowing that the situation was moral and ethically wrong?
A man who lived a double-life, and when questioned, only cast doubt back on those who questioned it (how DARE they question my integrity, after working a lifetime to build and prove it! This is a friendship, and I am loyal to my friends! She needs someone to talk to; her marriage is terrible and her kids are so much for her, all by herself!)
A man who left, regardless of the wife’s attempts to reconcile, go for treatment, go for counseling, do ANYthing to make up whatever it was that she had done, anything to save the marriage and family?
Step back and look….what kind of man would you think that was?
Do you remember talking about the “animals” that you worked with, who were married and had girlfriends, too? Who referred to their women as “whores” and their “babies’ mammas?”
Your parents have loved you most and longest of any other people on the planet. Yet, you are willing to throw away your relationship with them, for this? Do you think they are fools, or don’t know you, or have no wisdom? They don’t recognize the man you have chosen to become. They don’t know how you are able to justify your actions, how you could so easily go against everything they have ever taught you about morals and ethics. They don’t hold it against you that you were unhappy in the marriage, but how you dealt with that unhappiness. Instead of working on it with your partner, honoring your commitments and vows, turning to someone, ANYone who could help you, you threw it away, along with your integrity and good name. You lied. You cheated. You became an adulterer. You hurt every person around you – the closer they were, the more you hurt them, and you did it without caring WHO got hurt. You chose a path that they cannot follow or support you on, and it tears them apart to have lost you. I watched your father’s spirit die…he shuffled around the house with his head down and tears always in his eyes, looking and acting like he had aged 20 years, turned into an old man. But none of that matters to you. You have to be right, it is everyone else who is wrong.
You say that it was over for you, that you tried for “five years.” WHAT DID YOU DO? You spoke around the subject a few times, said you needed help, that you were tired. Not ONCE did you say you were unhappy, suggest therapy for ANYone, get a book (there are THOUSANDS), talk to someone who could communicate it for you…you expected me to be able to read your mind. And you found a “kindred spirit,” someone who also was unhappy, who seemed to understand….and you talked to her. So don’t tell me that you couldn’t communicate – you CHOSE NOT TO, with me. Even when so many eyebrows were raised. YOU made the choice to turn away and go outside the marriage! NO ONE is responsible for you having an affair, other than yourself! NO ONE made you do it! And there is nothing that I did that deserved how you treated me.
Were you hurt? I can only begin to guess at how deeply. But it was not intentional – I wasn’t out to hurt you, I didn’t do things that I knew would hurt you.
You did.
You thought you were trapped before, by what you were “supposed” to do, what you were “supposed” to be. Are you having her move in because there is no where else she could go and afford, except down to her brother’s, and you don’t want to loose your relationship with her? What heroism. What do you think might happen if the relationship with her DOESN’T work out? More than 87% of second marriages fail….that isn’t even taking into account the relationships where they don’t get married. You’ve said you don’t want to marry – afraid that “forever” is an empty promise…? No strings, no commitment. That is an optimistic start…I wonder how either of you will trust the other, be secure in your relationship. You both know what the other is capable of…people are wondering who will bail, first. They are guessing that you are too stubborn to let it “fail,” since you have given up so much for this, and you have to be right….
You have already ripped apart this family and your own once. You have made promises to those girls, especially, that you would be a family together. How will you face them if/when this doesn’t work?
There are four girls, NOT YOUR CHILDREN, who you will be living with and help raising almost full-time, while your own children see you on occasion. Two of the four had issues requiring mental health services and medication BEFORE the trauma of a divorce. Are you going to save them, too? Will you be doing homework with them, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, shuttling, disciplining, cuddling up and getting climbed on, being there every night, while their mother is at work? Will you be tucking them into bed every night?
Are you ready to do all that with someone else’s children, children who have a father, children who will remind you that you are NOT their dad, children with their own sets of problems and challenges?
Will you and their mother set an example of what commitment looks like? If either of you cared for the kids more than yourselves, if either of you believed in family, and the covenant of marriage, you would have BOTH told the other to go back and do the hard work! There is a reason you got married in the first place – there was love there. And yes, it can be brought back!!! IF the people are willing to work for it!! You left because you weren’t happy? Then, you have to find a way to make yourself happy IN THE MARRIAGE, with your SPOUSE!
Are you ready for your own children to ask, why aren’t you there for us? Why couldn’t you make it work, for us? Why them, and not us? Do you realize that they will NEVER see all of you as the happy little family of your fantasies?
Your youngest has stopped crying for you at night. She is ok with you not being here. She will quickly forget those times when her mom and dad both came to say pretty dreams.
Your son doesn’t even want his OWN sister to go camping with you and scouts….how do you think he will handle sharing you with 5 girls, 4 of who aren’t even related? Do you think our kids want to go to her mother’s house for holidays? What is THAT mess going to look like?
When I used to cry, I would apologize to the kids, especially Chuckie. I would tell him I was so, so sorry that I couldn’t make it work, that he and Brynne deserved so much more than this. He always answered, Mom, you are not the one who should be sorry. You didn’t do anything wrong, and you tried. We saw how hard you tried.
They will always love you, but they don’t like what you did. They don’t like the choices you made. But you can’t pick your parents. Chuckie still hopes that you will start to make the right choices. Both of them have told me that they are only kids – they can’t make things any different than they are. It wouldn’t matter what they said.
Brynne just says “I don’t know” when anyone asks her anything about the divorce or what she wants. She is afraid to have an opinion. She drew a picture at Healing Hearts. A happy memory, when we were all together as a family at Disney. A sad memory, when daddy hangs up the phone on mommy. She doesn’t know I saw the picture.
What do you think a son will think of his father who made these choices? Step away from this whole mess…..look at other people you know. What does Chris think of his mother? And he is an adult.
Things people have said:
Charlie: I have never seen anyone so selfish, and it is especially weird for Chuck. He is only thinking about himself. It is over – don’t hold onto someone who doesn’t love and value you.
I wonder if this Scout shirt will burst into flames when he puts it on…
A friend: He won’t look at the mess he has bought into. He isn’t the same….its like, as long as he checks in every few weeks and talks about nonsense, he can say that he still has my friendship. But everything is different, now. How could it not be? Like I would ever go over to their house, have her get me something to drink? I will never accept them as a couple…
He lied, to a lot of people, including me. I was on vacation with you both for a solid week, and he never acted like a man who wanted out of a marriage – and yet he was sleeping with her before the end of that month! He fooled everybody….Maybe this is the real him.
Wait till they live it for a while. Up till now, it has all been a fantasy. But wait until he comes home from work to have at least 3 of them climbing all over him, while she goes out to work. Does he really want to start all over, now? This is when life was supposed to get easier….now, to deal with all their mess, all their issues, including the mother!
What is it that he sees, anyway? She isn’t attractive, has bad teeth, dyes her hair to look like yours. Oh, wow, she lost 30 pounds—too bad its not really enough to notice! She was never nice, or funny. Hardly ever see her smile. Always a miserable person, not a nice thing to say about anything in her life, just how hard or miserable it all is. Even to this day…nothing is going to make her happy.
Menial job…what is it that she brings to the table? Its not looks, or smarts, or money….just problems.
John: He’s not worth it. Not worth you. You are smart, beautiful…doing all the right things. What would you still want him for? Get over it. He’s not the same guy. You’ve got lots of great guys out there waiting for you!
Trevor:
I always looked up to Chuck, the way he was for his family…I can’t believe that he would, or could, do this.
Banker: He’s with HER, that fat cow with all those kids? I’ve known her and her family since she was a girl…got another boy in trouble back then, always bad news, a kind of slut reputation. Not surprising, from her.
A medical professional:
I’ve known the family. That woman has been miserable for as long as I can remember, and her daughter is just like her. A very dysfunctional family.
Your husband is sick; it is a shame that he won’t look at himself. You are so much better off without him. He is looking for someone to make him happy, and it is really from somewhere deep within himself that keeps him from being happy. Its not about you at all.
Another friend: Well, Chuck definitely traded down, didn’t he?
Anyway, I think you get the running jist of it. I won’t even get into what my family has thought about…..but just know that Aunt Joanie cries at the thought of what you have done. She thought you were so much like the best parts of my dad….I think it is a lucky thing for you that she broke both of her arms.
Thank God they are both of my parents are dead, so they don’t have to see what you have become.
My part in all this? Yes, I did play a part…
I was secure in my marriage. I was sure of my spouse’s love, that nothing could sway it. I didn’t have to earn his love, love isn’t a commodity. He loved me as deeply as I loved him. (Did you want me to be insecure, worried when you went out, worried who you were friends with? Trying to jump through hoops daily to prove myself to you? Did you do that for me? Does that make a good marriage?) I looked up to him, I respected him, I was proud of who he was and how he treated our family and friends. I wanted him to be happy, and tried to encourage things that made him happy (like getting out on the bike, hot tub time, reminding you to call your friends, tried to encourage you to be involved in more things I knew you liked like scouts, take up a hobby, etc.)
I am not organized. I have struggled with it my entire life. It is more than simply being lazy – that would have been a quick fix….it is more the way my brain is wired. Just like your brain had a hard time with speech. I am on the scale for ADD. It’s the flip side of my creativity coin. An absent-minded professor…
But instead of learning how to make adjustments to this, I relied on you. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to have it cleaned up, or purposely ignored you asking me to get something done. If you remember, I actually asked you for help with this when you did bring the subject up – I was trying to find a way to make it work, like how you clear your throat before you say Hello. I just asked for company. Someone there to help me keep my focus. I didn’t even want you to pitch in, just be with me. I was always happy to work, even stuff I hated doing, as long as we could spend time together, like when we did the dinner dishes together occasionally. But you made me feel guilty for that. When I saw you go to do something, I would jump up and try to help—yes, I saw your disgust, no, I didn’t want you to do it all. I just didn’t think like you do when it came to those things—I sucked at it, but I tried. Same with the money – how long did I ask to sit down and write up a budget with me? I have one, now.
I didn’t leave things intentionally for you to take care of. I didn’t see it, didn’t connect it with a way to express my feelings for you. (How could I show my love for you with something that I was so terrible at doing?)
I expressed my love for you with words ALL of the time, compliments, support and interest in what you did and talked about, what you were interested in. I thought of you when I went grocery shopping (sometimes I still have to put things back in the cart, realizing that you were the only one who liked it). I touched you, held your hand, sat next to you, wanted to be with you, loved to cuddle and hug you. I took care of you when you were sick or hurt. I worried about you. I spoke to you all the time, many times throughout the day. About everything and nothing. You were my best friend. We worked together as a team with our kids, and with what we were good at. You could fix anything, I could research anything. You did directions. I planned and tried to pick fun things. I felt like we each began where the other ended.
And now I know that that wasn’t always a healthy thing. There were many areas where I didn’t grow up. Things where I stalled.
Now, I am on my own. For the first time as an adult. I have had to rush through adolescence in a bunch of areas, and you and I both know just how painful that was for me.
And that was what a lot of my pain was that you saw. But here I am, independent, learning and growing. Learning what about me lead me to the reactions I had. Looking within.
You see, going to therapy isn’t for the weak. Or to be brainwashed.
It is a kind of mirror…a guide, to help you realize the stuff under the surface that no one wants to look at, the hard stuff, the things that are so painful that your psyche has to bury them any way it can.
I learned at a young age the survival skill of denial. It saved my life. I remember the hours on end, at 2 and 3 years old, when I would be left alone in my room to play with my “imaginary friends.” I was alone. I found a way to make it ok, because it had to be.
I found a way to love my mom, because I had to. And if there was ever anything wrong, it had to be my fault, because it couldn’t be hers.
In the mean time, I have been able to see the areas that I got right. I am raising two great kids as a single mom. I have strengthened my family bonds and friendships, and made many more. I have rekindled a relationship with God, someone who’s love will never have to be earned, someone who’s strength will never leave when things get hard. I have a successful career. I am a college graduate, and will soon have my master’s degree. I run a household. I am service-minded, trying to give back to others, mentoring new teachers and doing things for the kids I teach who need it. I am a good person, with a great life. And I finally feel blessed, again. A good catch for a good man, someday, when I want it.
Anyway, those are the tips to the icebergs of what I have discovered. I am still in recovery, still looking at myself to continue to grow as person who I want to be. That is my path. I will be aware, and not be afraid to look deep within.
I wonder if you have looked at what it is, deep inside you, that allowed you to go against everything that you had once held so sacred. I wonder if you have asked yourself what kind of mental gymnastics your brain has pulled so that you can look yourself in the face each morning in the mirror. What you have done with your shame? Will you ever have the strength or character to really look at it?
To help me face the new reality of who you are in my life, I made a list.* It helps to protect me. See, I will always love you, for you, for the deepest parts of you. You do not have to earn my love; there is nothing you could ever do that would make me not love you anymore.
But I also know that I don’t want you in my life. You are not good for me. And that is beyond husband, friend, acquaintance. I know now that you will go out of your way to hurt me when you get the chance; it is part of how you live with yourself. You’re the good guy, right, so I must be really screwed up, really a bad person who you escaped…..no one leaves a happy marriage, no one leaves someone who is trying, who is good. I don’t think you do these things knowingly….I don’t think you are out to hurt me. Its just how you manage, like how you justify your actions. I can’t even keep up with your circular arguments; I give up on that. Someone told me once, You can’t make sense of nonsense.
So you have said that I was not a good wife or friend. That I am not a good mother. That I am not a good person. At least, that is what you say to me when you are tearing me apart…you go right back to being the good guy when you say anything about me to other people.
And you showed me that this will be the way you view me for the foreseeable future, when you told me recently that Denise hated me. You apologized to her, but not to me, told her that “you were mad,” so I guess you had to do it. Like the death threat – I made you mad, so you were allowed to threaten to kill me, how could I hold that against you? Like the affair and marriage break-up “had to happen this way.” I MAKE you lash out in anger, threaten me with violence. I never tell anyone what leads you up to acting like that—what is it I did?
Asked you to talk to me. Cried for your forgiveness. Begged for another chance, for you, for the kids. I wanted to try to make things right.
In short, I would have relinquished everything about myself, my very essence and soul, if only you would reconsider. How thoughtless, how terrible of me. What abuse. I can only thank God that you never took me up on any of it; I may have found myself beaten, or with my arm sawed off, or even dead – I was willing to do anything, give up everything, to die for you. You will never know that kind of love. And now, I will never know it again, thankfully. Because NO ONE is worth giving yourself up for. I deserve so much more than what you gave, what you are capable of.
I wrote Denise a letter that very night, telling her how sorry I was that I let her down, that I understood if she didn’t want to talk to me anymore, that I thought we had been ok but was so very wrong……if you could have, you would have taken one of my main supports, one of the people who saved my life, away from me. With no remorse.
It is the same way you left me to die so many times. I wonder now if you really, secretly hoped that I would do it. I know that you would have told yourself that it wasn’t your fault. How much easier life would have been for you.
Believe it or not, I wish you well on your journey. I am pretty sure that you won’t hear it from me, even though I seem to be the only one trying to talk to you about the serious stuff (you don’t want to hear it, or you would have read the boards all along.) What I was trying to tell you the other night, is that people who love you wish you would listen. TALK to the people who love you, have always loved you. Tell them that you will listen, and then LISTEN. Read a goddamn book, look at what this does to ANY human who goes through this – you wouldn’t believe it, but you are actually following a script! A tragedy that plays itself out all too often….ask Sarah, or another counselor, or your divorce lawyer. I had people tell me how it was going to end before I even knew you were having an affair! Can they all be wrong? Not ONE person likes Monika, not one person thinks that this is a good idea. Maybe I am the only one who will come out and say it, but if you ask with a willing heart, the others will tell you how they really feel. (Although I think that some tried, but you shut them down quickly) No one thinks you want to hear it, so they don’t bother. They can’t be bothered with someone who is deaf and too full of pride. They are just standing back, waiting to see the fall. They have given up on you. Now, maybe, you’ll have some relationships that hold on because of what you can do for them.
I love you, I worry for you. I pity you, actually, and am deeply, deeply disappointed. This will sound incredibly nerdy, but I remember sitting next to you, watching Star Wars so many times, thinking that you are Anikan, taken over by your own Dark Side, changed into this other thing capable of hurting others, going against everything that you ever thought was right. If not with you, everyone must be against you, an enemy. And me, the princess who died from heartbreak….I am lucky in that I found the strength to hold on for the kids, that I could not leave them. You are “on the path that I cannot take.”
Maybe you haven’t changed at all….maybe it is just that I finally have my eyes open and can see you for who you really are. And I deserve better than that. So do the kids. I hope that you can keep a semblence of normalcy together for their sake, at least, and do as right as possible given the situation.
I wish you would just go away and leave us alone after all of this. Go off and live your life. I wish I didn’t have to deal with that woman, have to wrap my head around her being in my kids’ lives. But I will find the strength to do even that, and help my kids deal with it all, too. Because everything seems easy after the Hell that I have walked through. The best lies ahead for me.
(I can hear him already, saying that I am psychotic, that how dare I talk down to him, that he is the same person he has always been, justify, justify…..I can’t go on wasting any more air on this. I wonder if he will hear this, if he will ever hear anything at all…)
I took the kids to pick pumpkins and apples today. We shopped for mums and decorations for the fall, Halloween, D's costume. We bought salmon and a lobster for dinner. It was a great way to wrap up the long weekend...I am so lucky to have these kids in my life. They are really great people.
Some semblence of order seems to have come to the house, although I still have laundry to do, and the floor needs to be vacuumed. All in all, I am pretty content with myself. What a strange thing....I can't really describe the feeling.
OK, the nerd just came out in me.....ever seen the Matrix?
Neo realizes that he is the One when he can look and see the code behind the facade--he not only knows the truth, but can use that for his own purpose, like stopping bullets that are about to rip into him. He looks at his own hand in amazement, while fighting with the other.
THAT's the feeling I have right now.
Ugh, I am SUCH a nerd. Cause more than once, I have seen the resemblence of x to Anikan/Darth Vader....I was hoping to be the one to "see" the good in him, help him remember, but maybe it will take his son. Maybe he will never see it.
OK, I should shut up, or I will never get a date!
Sometimes, songs will randomly pop up into my head. I don't know if I have ever consciously thought about the lyrics, but I am finding that when I do look them up, they seem to say things that are under the surface, somewhere...
This just came "in:"
Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
So close no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words I don't just say
And nothing else matters
Trust I seek and I find in you
Everyday for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
But I know
So close no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
But I know
(Bridge)
Never opened myself this way
Life is ours, we live it our way
All these words I don't just say
And nothing else matters
Trust I seek and I find in you
Everyday for us something new
Open mind for a different view
And nothing else matters
Never cared for what they say
Never cared for games they play
Never cared for what they do
Never cared for what they know
And I know, yeah, yeah!
(Solo)
So close no matter how far
Couldn't be much more from the heart
Forever trusting who we are
No, nothing else matters
I just want to journal it for now. I should keep track of these things......
LOL..I think you are far from Nerd. A nerd who has Metallica songs popping in their head..is Cool..
(((((Donna)))))
That letter is so heartfelt and says so much. You did say that only your C was going to see it, right? You know your H would never read more than one sentence, right? He's not willing to hear you or face what he has become. He is living in the bubble of his own creation. Reality will hit him with a vengeance at some point and he'll have to suffer for what he has done.
You are an amazing spirit sweetie! You have so much to offer the world and so many more beautiful things to create.
I have some song lyrics for you. I know you said you have reconnected with your faith in God. You have probably already heard this song but I have printed the words and hung them on my mirror so I can remember where my hope lies.
"In Better Hands" by Natalie Grant
It's hard to stand on shifting sand
It's hard to shine in the shadows of the night
You can't be free if you don't reach for help
You cant love if you dont love yourself
There is hope when my faith runs out
Cause I'm in better hands now
It's like the sun is shining when the rain is pouring down
It's like my soul is flying though my feet are on the ground
So take this heart of mine there's no doubt
I'm in better hands now
I am strong all because of you
I stand in awe of every mountain that you move
Oh I am changed, yesterday is gone
I am safe from this moment on
[ Natalie Grant Lyrics are found on
http://www.songlyrics.com ]
There's no fear when the night comes 'round
I'm in better hands now
It's like the sun is shining when the rain is pouring down
It's like my soul is flying though my feet are on the ground
So take this heart of mine there's no doubt
I'm in better hands now
It's like the sun is shining when the rain is pouring down
It's like my soul is flying though my feet are on the ground
Its like the world is silent though I know it isnt true
Its like the breath of Jesus is right here in this room
So take this heart of mine there's no doubt
I'm in better hands now
I'm in better hands now
Hey Donna..the letter..I'm proud of you..
Hey Donna..
Lady.. I thought WE were going to get together Saturday night!..
*hugs*
Mish, Mike....thanks. I think I am just the kind of person who really had to understand as much as I could about the sitch before I could put it behind me and move on. Its sad, but in the end, it doesn't really matter if he ever gets it. I thought we would always work together towards that, but it is more than obvious that he doesn't want to understand, just plow forward. Divergent paths.
Gyp--I want to get together - I was hoping I could kidnap you and bring you into the city! Call me...
I stole this from someone's personals!!
Promise yourself to be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind. Look at the sunny side of everything and make your optimism come true. Think only of the best, work only for the best, and expect only the best. Forget the mistakes of the past and press on to the greater achievements of the future. Give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no time to criticize others. Live in the faith that the whole world is on your side as long as you are true to the best that is in you!
Hey, friends! THANK YOU for reading through that monster!
It did have a lot of things in it, didn't it?
I spoke with the IC today...the letter won't go anywhere else. I had been thinking about it, hoping to leave it with either her or the kids' IC, asking him to read it with them. She reminded me - He. Won't. Hear. It. Someday he may seek out counseling on his own, but I will never be privy to it. Given the past circumstances, she thinks he would just use anything in it against me. "Poor Donna, still not over me, still desperate. I must be SO amazingly special to have her still pining for me."
When he "softened" and ask for the 07 taxes last week, I saw an opening to manipulate him to hear me. Same pattern, different motivation (the kids). Nothing consciously, but probably what it was. And he has shown over and over that he will not hear it, even from his own parents, friends, family...he certainly won't hear ANYthing from me, no matter what the motivation.
We talked about what I can do to help my kids. I can be there for them. I can make sure that I don't put them in the middle. I can let them love him, and just be an ear if they want to talk to me. I can not fix this for them, as much as I have wanted to. He is free to choose to live with as many floozies as he wants, changing them up every week if that's his thing - as long as there is no abuse, I can't do anything to influence the situation over there.
We also talked about what I am going to do about the hatred I hold for that woman. We haven't talked about it much, and she said we can definitely work on that.
Looking back at the marriage, I made concessions that I chose to live with, things that affected me. I am having a much harder time accepting concessions that affect my kids...
It is hard to know that his decisions, which affect the kids, are none of my business. But its the truth.
It is hard to turn off the caring button, but it would only be seen as meddling, controlling. So, at least I was able to take another step - I "felt the (non-existent) opening," reacted with a reach-out attempt, BUT, I was able to keep it to myself and share it only in safe places (here, IC), instead of trying with him or through other people to get to him (well, my IC wouldn't participate, so that helped!). No phone call, no sending the letter, no showing up, trying to get him to talk to me. A small step forward...
More processing tomorrow...
Donna, I am where you are. I just found out that STBXH is living w OW part time. I kinda figured that was the case, but he has been too much of a coward to admit it. The odd thing is that when he finally admitted it, I did not feel upset or uneasy. All I thought about was my S. I did not want him to have to live through the drama of his father's world. There are still time when I want to tell STBXH what a piece of sh!t he is, but know HE WILL NOT HEAR IT. I mean, he left me when I was sick and could die and he still feels justified in his actions. This to me me tells me that HE is the one so broken. Like your H, they just dont know how to truly love, Donna. We do. We know how to work and work and work to try and make things right, They only know how to run away. Please, dont ever feel like you are the lesser one. You are not. I have read your threads and feel like I know you. You are beautiful and loving and compasionate. Like me, you sacrifice so much for others. Well, this is YOUR time now. Forget him, he has already forgot you. Know, though, that YOU will end with the real love while he keeps running and throwing people away. As hard as this is, we have been given a gift. We have learned who we truly are and will take that knowledge with us where ever we go. I know my STBXH has not learned this and neither has yours. Feel greatful for what you have, because it is bountiful, and know that his life is empty.
(((brokenhearted))) thank you...
Hey Donna,
First, get some sleep. 12:15 posting! It's 5AM and here I am on your thread. Lying in bed in the dark quiet is my enemy, so on to the gym post-coffee!
I think I've said some of the same stuff as your IC. Forget looking for "openings" or softening of any kind. Don't expect it, don't create it, don't look for it. Save that energy to focus on YOU and your kids. Don't use his relatives for ANY conduit to him. Forget HIS relatives. They know where you live if they want to reach out.
I spent three years hanging on every word that my wife said or didn't say. If she said good morning, I thought that meant reconciliation! They have closed the door on us. They are all about THEM, and we are emotional road kill. The best revenge is being happy and moving on. I don't want to be harsh, but it's not happening. As sad as I am, I KNOW she's not EVER coming back, so I've closed all openings, and it's been immensely helpful for me.
Maybe he will live happily ever after with the bio^ch. But be real. The odds aren't that good. When something starts on the sly, the odds are good that they end the same way.
You're a wonderful, smart person. Celebrate that. Look at him as being sick and self-centered.
hey Girl..very good. You amaze me you really do. Learning, growing, learning...moving forward. It's all good..really good.
Thanks, my men-in-arms
As far as his family...I agree, they know where I live. MIL has asked me a few times about upcoming things, like Thanksgiving and a family wedding in April. I told her I won't be there for Thanksgiving, and I don't even know if I'll be invited to the wedding (it is in FL). I think she is trying to wrap her brain around it, too. She's said to me, Don't let them push you out!, but she doesn't really understand the dynamics of it...
Seems like there are two different kinds of crowds: either people don't want to hear ANYthing about the divorce, pretend that it didn't happen, or the rubber-necking crowd, who want the gory details. Its not that they are mean about it, just that I don't think anyone can really understand this kind of trauma and aftershocks unless they have gone through it themselves, so they don't know what to do.
I'm just going to smile and wave from now on
I really have come a long way, and can feel the healing - its been such a trip, though, I tell ya. But now I can look at the whole thing (when I want to, which is a change!) with a grounded mind.
Soooo.......I have this voucher for an hour flying lesson. I have to find a day very soon to try it out - I'm psyched, with the trees all in their full color!! I'll keep ya'll posted!
families..hers now despise me..mine..well they've been very supportive but I have noticed my mom just can't seem to remove the pictures of Kim and I. They are prominately displayed..all the kids wedding pictures lined up in a row..for me to look at when I go over. Mom knows there is now no chance but keeps holding onto the possibility..
Same thing here. I walk into their house, and right there on the wall across from the door, in the middle, is the 8x10 of X and I (he's the middle of 5 kids). It is weird and used to make me crazy; now I just pretend its not there.
They have closed the door on us. They are all about THEM, and we are emotional road kill. The best revenge is being happy and moving on.
FLTC,
You are soooooooo spot on there! I pray Donna finds a guy who will appreciate her inner beauty AND inner nerd!
NMD
Me too! Donna, let me know when you're flying so I can stay out of the airspace around Danbury Airport! First flight=flying chainsaw!
I'll only fly low if I see a skanky giant white SUV...
I was DRAGGING today, and need to get to bed!!! Are you getting over to the alt universe?
What's on for the weekend? Looks like NYC for me and my college bff...
Sounds like fun. No real plans this weekend. I'm not playing "noncustodial parent" this weekend. Back to mediation on Monday (ughhhhh!) I visit the other side occassionally!
Hey Ms. Donna..
No NYC for me this weekend. Boo hoo!
I hope you have a great time and we can connect another time.
Great job on moving each step closer to THE Donna. Whoo hoo!
*hugs*
Wanna go to the city? Get in touch if you do...
Donna,
Glad to see you enjoying your life more and posting more about not just surviving, but thriving! Carpe diem!
Enjoy the city, I know you will.
SD
hey luv)))) I loved your Matrix reference. I now "see" the code, and i make it work to my advantage and write my own way without holding my breath, wishing hoping stbx would be in a marriage-saving mood. I am free from that doom cloud, love my life, the fog in my path is gone, my sad attempts at hearding cats and keeping a man who didn't even know who he was and what he wanted.
Hugs your way and prayers that you have the peace that surpasses all understanding
Ugh. I am bored. And up too late (again). My kids aren't home. There is nothing on tv. Its too late to get on the phone. I miss sex. Although if we were still together, that would have been over by now, and I'd be looking at a snoring back-of-a-guy (or maybe tired enough to go to sleep?) Ugh.
I want a man in my bed instead of my puppy (even if she is cute and doesn't snore).
On a different note, I want a personal assistant to file the giganto pile of paperwork clogging up my kitchen island. They could vacuum while they're at it
I want to light a match to the "spare room" that I had planned to have huge holiday dinners in, cause right now it is just filled with crap. Its behind a door so I don't deal with it. Its just...stuff. Random, unneeded stuff. Maybe when I get the dumpster for the pool mess...
Oh, did I mention that X finally said he'd pay the guy to clean the pool? I asked him when he was going to get it done, since we are getting close to the Nov 1st deadline. He said he could get the appliances out Nov 8th. Um, that's past the date, number one, and what about the rest of the crap? He didn't think he had to take care of the rest - broken glass, old toys, misc crap... I wasn't letting it go, so I told him I'd take care of it and send him the bill.
I'm still in flux, I guess. Still not the life that I want. I don't like being a single mom very much, miss the family stuff.
But even with that b!tch session, I;m not depressed. Not crying, or even sad, really. Just bored, I think...
Oh my, Donna.
I know exactly how you feel. Babysteps. Do you know flylady?
Goldey
OH, yes, I know her well!!
She keeps filling my damn in-box, and my perfectionism makes me save the damn things, like I'm ever going to go back and read all 894 of them!
No, I really am trying to implement her ideas - a big challenge for me.
Sex? Did someone say sex? I've heard the word. Understand the concept, that's about it!
I had to unsubscribe from the flylady! She filled my inbox to the extreme and made me feel like a total failure because I couldn't come up with enough time to even begin! I'm getting there though.
Hey FLTC..
Sex is a three letter word (I refer to it as "huh?") that exists in the same realm as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy. It is a delusion while married since it doesn't really exist. It was also created so that it would be easier for priests to remain celibate. We're all one in the same... except we believe they don't have it (since sex doesn't exist).
Sex only applies to the gender of a baby and various stages of aging. Although a popular misconception is that one must HAVE sex to beget a child, one must simply be of two opposite sexes to have that bear fruit.
Kissing, flipping the bird at inopportune times and playing with firetrucks are what really cause pregnancy in females (along with the occsaional transgender individual). The "G" spot is nonexistent. Think of the word 'sigh'. Do you hear a G? No. Any letter you cannot hear continues the conspiracy of sex (for pleasure, frustration, etc) being real.
Of course personal.. errrmmm.. pleasure does exist. That is why the internet was created to allow others to be personal on an individual basis titillating only their mind and other responsive areas. These feelings can be recreated by gender.. women on a shopping spree, men with the remote during an exciting football game. However since most people want to improve their typing skills, internet interactions tend to be favored.
To debunk the theory that the male plug is made for the female socket, let me say "Whoa! Never heard such hootenanny in my life." The male appendage when.. motivated.. is the perfect cleaning accessory. It's very handy for hanging small washcloths (oops, forgot about the frail male ego).. hand towels (little ones), neckties and the occasional thong. A man's erection is a misnomer since it is parallel to the ground, creating a cute pup tent when clothed. I prefer the term 'levitation'.
A woman's innards continue to be mysterious, except when it comes to birthing babies (another popular myth. Babies come from duffle bags made of breathable fabric. When the mother howls at the perfect pitch of a zipper unzipping, the baby is lifted from the bag, rolled in gook and handed to the doctor with a tip expected. Actually, elevators would never exist if it weren't for a woman's vagigi. The rhythmic gripping was the inspiration for people size containers sliding up and down a cable smoothly. On a side note, 'muzak' was created for elevators to jam any sexual thoughts potentially awakened while in the conveyance. The sex in the elevator fantasy only occurs in non muzak elevators.
It is with great sorrow that I educate you on the realities of life but hope that true knowledge will ease any imaginary desires you think you feel.
*hugs*
(... now those are a completely different subject!)
ROFL Gypsy. your post reminded me of this email I got last week:
A father asked his 10-year old son if he knew about the birds and the bees.
"I don't want to know," the child said, bursting into tears. "Promise me you won't tell me."
Confused, the father asked what was wrong.
The boy sobbed, "When I was six, I got the 'There's no Easter Bunny' speech.
At seven, I got the 'There's no Tooth Fairy' speech.
When I was eight, you hit me with the 'There's no Santa' speech.
If you're going to tell me that grown-ups don't really get laid, I'll have nothing left to
live for."
Oh
My
Gawd..
That is HILARIOUS!!!!
How do you want to break it to the kid???
*hugs*
I know the feeling..all too well actually..
Ummmmmmmm......Mikey.........CSR38??????? Seriously man!
Gypsy - that was the funniest ever!!!!
I got that email about the kid not wanting to know about the birds and the bees last week too. I nearly spit coffee all over my screen. I said nearly, let's not be crazy! I'd never waste perfectly good coffee!
THIS is why I love you guys!!!!
I'm watching my student teacher herd cats (a group of kindergarteners) and everything stopped when I started laughing out loud!!!
And men, never worry about being replaced by power tools - they are a distant second.
(Mike - what about the all-nighter?)
(
Mike - what about the all-nighter?)
oh you're referring to the other 14.5 hours..ROTFLMAO..
You better have posted the gory details - we are living vicariously, you know...