All,
I've seen a few familiar faces around the board over the last few minutes. It has been over 8 months since I've been on here, that was about the time I threw in the towel and quit fighting it. Good thing I did, things went relatively painless. XW stayed involved w/ OM up through April. Then jumped into another R with a younger guy from my hometown (60 miles away)! Divorce was final on 6/20.
Now, for the two main reasons I am back here...
First and foremost, I am seriously worried about what my kids are being subjected to. Since March the X has been in habit of going out clubbing when the kids are with her. In late April she rear-ended someone while absolutely hammered drunk on one of these occasions. Strange man (future boyfriend) brought two falling down drunk women (X and her buddy) back to house at 3AM when they were supposed to be home at 11PM. My oldest was babysitting my other three and the three of X's friend. Oldest got VERY pissed. X swore next day she would never go to clubs again when she had kids. She could have been hurt/killed, hurt/killed someone else, or been arrested. She got lucky.
Within one week she was back at it and continues to this day. This past Friday night she told them she would be home by midnight and rolled in at 4AM w/ no key to house or cell phone to call. Had to knock on door and wake kids up.
She goes out to clubs weekly on nights she has kids. My oldest comments that if that is the way she acts when kids are around then how does she act when they aren't around. Two weeks ago she went out and left my 15 year old and her buddy to return to empty house after going on car date with two 16 year olds. I was not happy that I wasn't consulted on 15 year old going "out" on "car date", and that her Mom wasn't home until 1:30 AM to verify that they got home on time and that boys left immediately. She dismissed my concerns.
I am concerned that my kids, who led very upper middle class life, somewhat wholesome and strict parents, are now being subjected to a bar fly mom who puts her own wants before them. It is only a matter of time until she has something very bad happen to her on one of these times when kids are left alone.
My question... I am VERY worried that I am going to have to seek custody of the kids. Can I do anything and what should I do?
Now for the stupid kicker question that I already know the answer to...
Since just before the D was final, up until just two days ago, she will hit a phase every few days where she calls me asking if we should "date", if I miss her, etc.
I know these coincide with "down times" in her other relationshipos, or low moments in her dealings with the kids. I know I don't want to go back to what I was in before but I worry that if I totally blow her off she is just going to get deeper into the crap (described above) that she is wading in.
As for me, I've been doing fine. Busy, Busy at work and I've met several nice and extremely attractive women who are now my friends. After what I've been through I know I do not, nor could I have, a serious relationship with anyone. So... everything is just loosy goosey and I enjoy my time with them.
So, let's hear it you wise people! Tell me this is a "normal" progression and that things are going to be okay. Tell me that I don't have to worry about my kids being absolutely ashamed of what their mother is becoming. Tell me I'm worried about nothing and that I need to just sit back and watch how all this pans out before I do anything.
Thanks!
Steve
Oh Steve,
I can't tell you not to worry about your kids. I see red flags going up every which way in this sitch.
Is it normal. YUP, this is what someone in MLC who wants to be footloose and fancy free does to relive what she thinks she missed does.
You really should talk to your ex first. Give her fair warning of your intentions and your concerns. Lay down the law and tell her that this is what you expect in no uncertain terms. Your kids are you first concern as they should be. If anything ever happened to them you would never forgive yourself. If she doesn't make some changes I would consult an attorney. You know it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and get a consult one just to see what your rights and options are. I hate to tell you this but I don't think that your talking to her will be the quick fix that you're hoping for.
You owe it to our kids to be their protector.
Good luck..........
Bethie
Beth,
I have spoken to her several times, including this weekend when it was required that we spend several hours around one another. She expressed, as usual, regret for having stumbled in so late for the kids and says she doesn't plan on doing it again. This, of course, I have heard before. Two weeks ago I stopped just short of threatening her with legal action, and this weekend I told her that I was very worried that I might have to do that at some point. Her only reply was that a judge won't take a Mom's kids away just because she leaves them at home w/ their older sister. My thought is that any action from me would be the result of some sort of bad event, such as a DUI.
This weeekend I begged her to relieve my worries by letting the kids come stay with me when she knows that she will be going out. We'll see if that takes, but I doubt she will because then she will have to tell me when she is going out.
Who knows, it is just causing me a lot of worry. I don't want a bumpy road w/ my X but I know what she is doing is not good for my kids in any way, and there is no sense they have to endure it. Heck, I know some day she is going to look back on this with real regret. She was always a great and extremely protective mother, she has just changed...
Steve just remember that you can't be responsible for her. She makes these choices all my her lonesome without regard for the kids.
.....and actually leaving all of those kids alone together is way too much for one child to handle. She's just acting like a child and being defiant by telling you "the judge won't care!" Sorry but I have a neighbor that just got his 2 children due to his ex wife's drinking and I don't know that she ever even left the house or the kids alone to do it.
This is for you to decide but if it were me, I would ask daughter to call you the next time your ex leaves and doesn't come back on time. Then I would go over and rescue them!
This is crazy!
Hey Steve,long time no see. I was thinking about you a week or so ago and wondering how things turned out for ya.
The kid thing sucks dude, but Bethie is dead on. Your responsibility is to them and to protect them at all costs. You laid it out there for her to bring them to you, if she doesn't and she isn't home on time, do as Beth says and go rescue those kids. Let her know that is what you are going to do, that way she has nothing to bitch about.
She's right, a judge wouldnt do anything if it was simply her leaving the kids alone, but with the accident and the kids seeing her drunk, I bet you a judge might just have a different opinion. Not that you need to take that route, but do not let her BS you when you bring it up.
Glad you are ok otherwise buddy.
Ian
Thanks to ya Beth and Ian, I'll just keep a close eye on things. I hate to get any of my kids in the middle, asking them to narc on Mom when she stays out too late.
This weekend during our (what I thought was very good) rational discussion of things, I told her that since she is the one in the middle of the MLC that she isn't seeing things with a rational set of eyes. She disagreed that she is in MLC, said she is just going through a "wild phase".
The kicker has been her recent "attempts" at sparking something between us. For a few days she is in the mode then she will just drop it instantly and go totally the opposite way. I just need to get myself back into the mode of not giving her or her feelings a second thought. Me worrying about my kids for the past few weeks has been tough on me, and I've been willing to let my guard down in order to try and remove some of that worry. Instead it has back-fired on me a bit. Heck it got me to the point where I came back on here for advice. This isn't the sort of stuff I like talking to my friends & family about. I really don't want them to know what my X has turned into.
Ian,
Despite what all this rambling might indicate, I have been doing quite well with everything. I had moments leading up to the D date, just didn't want to let it go. The day of D I was not a happy camper but by the next day I was actually amazed to feel such a burden lifted off of me. I cruised along quite well until the recent stuff with the kids. I hope all is well with you! Planning any big hunting trips this fall?
Steve
Do not take her back. You desrve a quality woman.
I have absolutely no respect for people who abandon and inflict pain on innocent family. How selfish and unseemly can they get?
Oh, and if these know-it-all geniuses are so smart, why in the world do they even bother to get married and have children only to leave them home to go out and party?
Why in the world do they believe that they "deserve" to act out all of the things that they should have gotten out of their system before starting a family?
How lame these WAS are! "Poor me"...."My needs, my needs, my needs..." It sure gets old.
How about they grow up and stop whining? How about they count their many blessings and stop trying to live in a fantasy instead of the real world? How about they take care of the family they already have?
Thanks Kimmie...
Yes, I know I deserve better, there is no doubt about that. It's funny how when there is any sort of a crisis that the ghosts of past ones sort of come back to life.
I'll get over this hump.
Hey Steve,
How's it going? Hope you've got things straight in your mind as to how you'll handle the sitch regarding the kids. Who know, maybe she'll "get it" and you won't ever have to deal with. Somehow I doubt that though. Life just doesn't seem to go that smoothly when you're dealing with a "teenager".
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!
Bethie
but I worry that if I totally blow her off she is just going to get deeper into the crap
toots, she is doing whatever she wants anyways, apparently not even having kids have made her stop behaving in such a way, protect yourself emotionally, this woman is toxic, your first impressions are right, she seeks some comfort in between her craziness.
Please keep a detail dated journal of all that has been happening, if you need to go to a judge you will need it. Your d is putting up with way too much, your gut feeling is right, keep a sharp eye, and her "wild phase" crap statement tells me that she knows what she is doing but she is behaving like a lunatic anyways to please #1.
Hey Guys!!! I just thought I would check back in to provide an update and to see how everyone else has been doing.
After posting last I did take Cat's advice and started keeping a journal. I went back as far as I could and logged the times and incidents regarding my X and things she has done when she had the kids. Over the last 4-6 weeks things have actually settled down quite a bit. I guess she has been dating a guy fairly steady and that has kept her from going out, at least to bars, when she has the kids. That is all good and fine with me. I know it has taken a big worry off of my mind. When I came back to post last time (August) I was VERY worried about having to take her to court over the kids. She still doesn't see how her actions effect the kids, but at least she has calmed down.
Actually, I started keeping a journal for more than just tracking stuff with her, I started writing down my own thoughts in hopes that it would help me. Nothing amazing to date...
I'm doing fine but still have my moments.
I've been dating different women off and on, absolutely nothing serious. I figure I need to get my heart back within my own possesion before I can even think about giving it away. I'm sure that is going to take quite some time.
Now days I just concentrate on being a good Dad for my kids. We've been on this parenting plan for a year now (I have them 40% of the time) and I've only "gone out" one time when I had them. That was last month and was for my 25th High School Reunion. We stayed with my Dad that night so they were home with him. Other than that one time, I've not left them alone when they are with me. I think they appreciate the fact that one parent is still a "parent" and not a "single person". That fact has cropped up a couple of times over the last few months in "discussions" between my oldest daughter and her mother. She tells my X things like "Dad doesn't date" or "Dad doesn't go out" and it makes my X angry, often times she'll rebut and talk about how I do go out and that I do date. Although I have had talks with my OD and have told her that I do "go out" and do "date", she says "it is different than mom though". I think what she is saying is that I insulate my kids from it, so they have no first hand knowledge. As opposed to my X who puts it right out on the table and expects them to be happy for her.
Well, I think I will peruse around and see what is happening with everyone else. Y'all take care!
Do not take her back. You desrve a quality woman.
I have absolutely no respect for people who abandon and inflict pain on innocent family. How selfish and unseemly can they get?
Oh, and if these know-it-all geniuses are so smart, why in the world do they even bother to get married and have children only to leave them home to go out and party?
Why in the world do they believe that they "deserve" to act out all of the things that they should have gotten out of their system before starting a family?
How lame these WAS are! "Poor me"...."My needs, my needs, my needs..." It sure gets old.
How about they grow up and stop whining? How about they count their many blessings and stop trying to live in a fantasy instead of the real world? How about they take care of the family they already have?
Kimmie Lee,
That is VERY well said.....
Take Care,
RMG
Okay, now that I've wandered back to these boards I might as well post up the latest two-prong dilemma and get some advice on how to "Survive the Big D"!
First issue: X's parents are coming into town for Thanksgiving and it is my time with the kids Fri-Mon. She asked if she could have the kids that weekend and I said sure. She said she didn't want to do a weekend swap because it caused trouble the last time we did that. She mentioned swapping for a weekend night before or after and I just didn't say much of anything. Last night she called wanting THIS Saturday night and I told her I couldn't because I had already made plans to be out of state hunting. She started to talk about the weekend after Thanksgiving but got po'd and hung up on me, obviously she wanted this Saturday night. This morning she sends me a text and says that she just wants to do a complete weekend swap and that I needed to take them the entire weekend following Thanksgiving. I replied back that I wasn't interested in doing swap, I would give her the Sat following, or that we could be creative while her parents are here with them so that they saw them enough but that she (X) also had her free time. She exploded... said I didn't want to spend time with my kids, didn't want to be flexible, and said that she was going to tell the kids I didn't want my normal time with them. After an hour or so, she called back and said that the following Sat night would be fine. I thought I was nice but still stood up for myself in terms of not letting her screw my schedule up, which is VERY well defined through the end of the year. Remainder of 2nd conversation was a lead-in to my 2nd issue…
Second Issue: Over the last couple of weeks the X has been very upfront with me and others about the fact that she has found someone she likes. I’ve been noticing the kids, especially the oldest, wondering about it. So in the latter 30 minutes of our 2nd conversation she started out by giving me the advice that I shouldn’t lie to the kids about whether I am going out with women, and that I need to be careful about bringing other people around them. During the conversation it came out that she has been feeling the kids out about possibly meeting her new boyfriend, which according to her is her 1st time actually dating someone. Evidently she got quite a bit of pushback from my oldest daughter and someone (either her Mom or my OD) brought me into the conversation about dating. My OD told her Mom that she KNOWS I haven’t gone out with any women. I told my X that I was my daughter dealing with things the way she wants to and holding a belief that she wanted to. I told her that I have worked very hard over the last year to keep a divider between my new life as a single guy and that of my life as the father of my kids. I told her that she has done just the opposite, and that now she having to pay the price.
I sure tried to tackle both of these issues in a calm manner. I didn’t yell, didn’t respond back when she glossed over the whole year long affair that was the final nail in the coffin. I just tried to talk rationally. She just absolutely does not want to hear that anything other than her own feelings are relevant. I didn’t tell her this, but this is what she was saying. I know her pretty well still, and it is obvious to me that she is very anxious to bring her new BF around the kids. She is happy with the relationship and wants her kids to share in the happiness.
Does it sound like I handled this okay? Advice on how to handle it better?
So specifically, on #2, how do I approach this with the kids? She has felt all of them out on the possibility, should I council them on it or just sit back and let it happen?
Steve,
This is something we all have to deal with. There is an age-appropriate and child appropriate aspect to it for sure. I would think that preparing them for the possibility of your dating and someday meeting "that special someone" is a good thing, but I am no expert, fo' sho'.
However, what it looks like from 1000 miles away is that your X is awfully involved in your life...considering that she is your X. Ever think about just changing the subject back to business matters relating to the kids? In the end, you can't control her and vice versa, so why lose sleep over it?
Sorry if that's not particularly helpful and as always, advice is worth what you paid for it.
Take care, SD
SD,
The issue with dating is more of a question as to how I advise my kids on the problems that they have with their Mom. Over the past 6 months the 3 girls have become put out with her because she has so abruptly brought her new "lifestyle" into their world. They get upset when she takes them to eat and "friends" happen to join them. They also get upset when she takes them other places and "friends" are there too and she joins them. Background on this is that the two oldest were upset with her because they knew of affair. Anyway... The latest is that she has a serious BF and she is wanting to introduce him to the kids. For the last week she has been feeling them out. My OD told her flat out that she didn't want another man in their lives right now. I want to be there with solid advice for my kids, especially OD, so I'm wondering is proper. I don't care to advise X on what to do, I just want to handle it properly from my side.
As for my dating, I've told them that at some point there is sure to be another woman in my life. I've told them that they can always ask me what I do and I will tell them. While I have dated since the D there is absolutely nobody that I am serious about, and I won't be introducing anyone to the kids until such a time comes. When they are with me, there is no dating, Dad doesn't stay on the phone, and I'm right there with them being "Dad", not "Single Dad". They've been pounded in the head by "Single Mom" who acts more like one of their teenager friends, I think they like having a Dad that hasn't changed much in terms of how I act when I'm around them.
So... how to talk to my OD on what I now know is a problem that she has with her Mom dating and wanting to introduce?
Steve,
I am not sure how old your kids are (maybe I missed that somewhere), but her wanting to introduce someone to the kids was bound to happen....and it is bound to happen with you too.
I don't have kids, but I am a child of D..(actually I was grown when it happened but I don't think it is much easier). I can see why OD has a problem that her mom is dating....but what do you think the problem is? Does she think it is too soon? Does she think it would hurt you? Does she think this ends the possibility of you two getting back together?
Maybe you should talk to her about what her specific problem is. Maybe it just makes her uncomfortable. I know it was all of the above when my parents started dating again and I was 25 years old before I was introduced to anyone. I didn't want to meet them and I was upset about it. I guess my point is that your children may never be ready for this, but you are divorced and it is something that will happen eventually.
It is very possible that they will feel disloyal to you for meeting someone else....and I don't think you should feed into that. It makes them feel guilty for something that is beyond control. They shouldn't be forced to do something that they are against, but I do think you should talk to them and get to the root cause of why they aren't ready.
Hope that makes sense.
Kris,
16, 14, 11, and 8. Thank you! That was good perspective coming from someone with first hand knowledge. I think OD's problems are all three that you listed. I think the disloyalty is a VERY big part of it and you are right. Not only will I not feed into that I guess I need to explain to them that their meeting Mom's BF is NOT being disloyal to me. I will also bring up the fact that at some point they will be meeting someone on my side.
Thanks again!
Steve
I think for me it was all three too....and keep in mind that I was much older than even your oldest daughter. From the way you talk the one that has the biggest problem is the oldest and that would make sense to me because she has more of an understanding of what is going on.
Not only will I not feed into that I guess I need to explain to them that their meeting Mom's BF is NOT being disloyal to me.
I think that is very important, and also very big of you to do. Remember this would not be about making your xw or her bf comfortable...but your kids. When I met my dad's GF (now wife) I felt like I couldn't even tell my mom because I didn't want her to hurt. I felt like...and still do to some extent...that I couldn't like her because then I would be disloyal to my mom.
It is hard on the kids at any age and hard for them to get used to the idea. Just be there for them and let them know that their feelings are perfectly normal.
Thanks Kris, I truly appreciate your insight on this. Very helpful!
The kids came over tonight for their usual "Every Other Wednesday" with Dad, part of the 40% deal. I had plans on talking to OD in regards to Mom's BF that she wants them to meet. Went well, but was surprised to learn that everyone except her met him yesterday.
All seems good. I discussed your points with her Kris and she isn't sure why she doesn't want to meet him, just doesn't. I told her that it was okay and that she should deal with it however she needs to. We talked about the fact that Dad is dating but really doesn't have anyone that he cares to introduce them to. Still to this day I see myself more as a Father of four instead of a single guy, guess that is the difference.
So... Things went well with the discussion. I just wanted to make sure that she (and other kids) knew that they had a parent they could talk to about their issues and that they didn't have to worry about hurting my feelings or feeling disloyal.
Thanks Kris...
New twists over the weekend... figured I would share.
Was out of town on Fri and Sat. Texted XW on Friday night because I knew my two OD's were at high school football game and I couldn't call them and talk to two youngest. Asked XW to have them call me. They did and shortly into convo with youngest daughter she simply handed the phone to my X. I knew she was upset about something pretty bad. Had X put her back on phone and I asked if they were with BF, she said yes. I told her not to worry that she could still talk to me w/o it being an issue.
On Sunday morning my middle daughter called me upset at her Mom about the whole BF deal. She had returned home from friends house the night before at 11PM and he was there. On Wednesday she was the one that had said she was good with it all, that she just wanted Mom and Dad to "be happy". I asked her what had changed and she said that Mom went from 0 to 100 mph with the whole "BF in their lives" thing. Turns out she had youngest two meet him last Tuesday at dinner after a basketball game, then he was over on Thur, Fri, and Sat nights. She said she doesn't want to see him more than she sees her Dad and that she got upset when her Mom got angry when discussing this.
On Sunday night when they came over to me I was washing dishes after dinner. My son came up to me and said he was upset about stuff and wanted to talk. We went upstairs and he told me that he was sad because of "Mommy and Daddy being divorced" and that he "didn't want another Dad". He teared up a bit when saying the latter. I talked to him for a few minutes then just had all the kids sit down with me so that we could talk. I told them that they didn't need to worry, that they only had one Dad and one Mother, and that the shock of this would wear off pretty quick. By the time we were done they were all smiling and happy.
X called me yesterday about a last minute switch she wanted, wants me to keep kids tonight. During convo she asked how kids were and I told her about our son being upset. I told her that I wish she would have given me more of a heads up instead of mentioning it in passing then diving in like she did. It just makes me bitter (once again) that I have always been the one who has had to deal with the feelings of the kids on things that she has put us all through. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, that is the way all of this has gone. She just plows straight ahead w/o regard to anyone's feelings. Oh well...
I have noticed several times that people mention DB'ers on FaceBook. Is it a group or what? I searched and couldn't find anything. Can anyone provide info?
Thanks,
Steve
Not sure how much advice I can offer on that one. You can't make your xw take their feelings into account...it is just beyond me that she doesn't.
I think if you just keep letting them know that you are "happy" then it will help. You may not be happy with how the situation has turned out, but in you still have things to be thankful for and they need to know that.
I really do think a lot of this is guilt on their part. If they should welcome this new guy into their lives they may feel like you will think they love you less. You have to let them know that is not the case. You can't control your xw or how she chooses to deal with things....so just keep loving those kids to pieces and listening to them when they need to talk.
As for FB...search for Kris Klm and you should find me.
Steve,
You are absolutely the man! The fact that you are the rock that your kids need in times of trouble will be something that they never forget. I know it is frustrating that someone you once loved is the source of this trouble, but that is something you cannot change, so just don't focus on it.
Happy Thanksgiving, SD
It just makes me bitter (once again) that I have always been the one who has had to deal with the feelings of the kids on things that she has put us all through. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, that is the way all of this has gone. She just plows straight ahead w/o regard to anyone's feelings. Oh well...
Hope you don't mind me hijacking, but wow. This rang true!! So very true. I feel very alone in getting the kids through this. My very good friend compared it to this..the girls and I are in a storm, and I am holding the umbrella over the kids so they are protected, but I am getting soaked.
Take care and have a great holiday weekend.
SD, to this day I remember the advice you gave me months ago...
"Just smile and waive"
As a matter of fact my boy had a talking Madagascar toy in his Happy Meal the other day that repeated that phrase! I am keeping that dude on my counter.
Hope you don't mind me hijacking, but wow. This rang true!! So very true. I feel very alone in getting the kids through this. My very good friend compared it to this..the girls and I are in a storm, and I am holding the umbrella over the kids so they are protected, but I am getting soaked.
Don't mind the hijack one bit!!!
You just keep on holding that umbrella, it is what a good and strong parent is supposed to do. Just remember you are doing the right and proper thing and at some point, they are going to look back and remember that. As for getting soaked, perhaps you could consider it a good cleansing. Once the storm subsides you are gonna be shining!
It is easy enough not to make the mistakes that upset our kids when we have someone taking the wrong path out in front. It still sucks, I know that, but at least we can come here and get some consolation. Hang in there LWB!
As a matter of fact my boy had a talking Madagascar toy in his Happy Meal the other day that repeated that phrase!
Hee!! "Just smile and wave, boys......." Yup, have the toy, and then some. Hey, log 'em onto happymeal.com. They can enter the codes on the back of the toys and they'll dance onscreen for you.
I hope I am shining soon.
Thanks so much for the nice message.
Happymeal.com & onscreen dancing with the Madagascar toys?
Man I need a beer...
Anybody else on here using Facebook? I created a profile there awhile back to keep up w/ my kiddos. Since my HS reunion I've been using it to keep up with some old friends. Pretty cool really.
The holiday weekend has started early for me! Absolutely nobody was in today so I knocked off at noon, came home, cleaned up a bit from the kiddos being here, and have started planning my weekend...
I'm taking the kids down to my Dad's house tomorrow for Thanksgiving with my family. I'll pick them up at 10AM and have them back by 4PM. My X In Laws are coming into town today so I'm letting the kids stay with my X over the weekend I normally have them. I'll get them back a day early next weekend.
After I drop the kids off I'm seriously considering loading up my dog and taking off to Missouri and Arkansas for a couple of days. Might as well I guess as there isn't much going on around here. I'm sure my "kinda" GF would like for me to stick around but this will just help keep the relationship "loose", I think she is wanting to get serious.
Here is a random thought for people in our position. Not one that I'm all that concerned about really but still makes me wonder. My mother passed away 3 years after we were married. My X MIL was always an incredible person to me and pretty much became like my mother. Throughout the entire marriage, she was always coming to me to talk, there for me, etc, etc. I did, and still do, think that she is an absolute Saint.
However, last year as things began degrading she took a big step back. I know she saw what was coming and even told me that she didn't want to take sides. I agreed and was good with that. The thing that has always made me rethink just how much a part of the family I was is that since we separated at the end of 09/07 she has not reached out to me to talk one single time. I called her when she was in the hospital in 11/07, again on Christmas of 07, and then a couple of days after the divorce was final in 06/08.
I know that she has to be loyal to her daughter but does that require a complete break like this when we were so close before? If I had been the one having an affair, or if I had not been the one trying so hard to keep things together, I guess I could understand. It is going to be awkward picking the kids up tomorrow because that will be the first time I've seen them since 07/07 and first time I've spoken to them since June. I know that if the shoe had been on the other foot, and I had treated my X the way she treated me, my Dad would be checking with her constantly to see if there was anything that he could do.
As bad as I hate to say this, I think I see where a good portion of my X's disfunction and avoidance comes from. Her father is a piece of work and has always been very rough on those around him. Now all three of their children have the initiaters of at least one divorce and are not exactly good models for fathers/mothers/husbands/wives.
Who knows... Like I said, just some random thoughts the day before a holiday. I'm good! Will see a bunch of my friends tonight and might be chasing ducks within 48 hours!
Holiday weekend went pretty well. Picked kids up and dropped them back off at the exact times I had arranged (10AM - 4PM). Two oldest daughters were upset when we pulled into the driveway at 4PM and the BF's crotch rocket was parked there. D16 hasn't met him and she at first refused to get out of my vehicle. I told her not to worry about it, just to go in and "go do her thing". I think it went okay afterwards but haven't been able to talk with them much about it since.
Took off to Missouri that evening (Thurs), stayed there all day Friday then headed down to a big festival in Stuttgart, AR on Saturday. That was okay, but I was exhausted when I returned yesterday.
On the drive home from AR I sent X a txt asking if I could take kids out to dinner last night. She said that "they had plans" then said that "kids were now stressed" so I left it at that. Just a mental note for the future when she wants to arrange these swaps that work for her, I'll not be so easy. If she can't set aside a couple of hours for me to see the kids on a day that is normally mine, that isn't right. I'm not used to going more than a couple of days w/o seeing them all, and I know that they like to be around me, especially w/ her father in town.
I'm going to go up to my son's school here in a few and eat lunch w/ him. I miss my little guy!
I know that she has to be loyal to her daughter but does that require a complete break like this when we were so close before? If I had been the one having an affair, or if I had not been the one trying so hard to keep things together, I guess I could understand. It is going to be awkward picking the kids up tomorrow because that will be the first time I've seen them since 07/07 and first time I've spoken to them since June. I know that if the shoe had been on the other foot, and I had treated my X the way she treated me, my Dad would be checking with her constantly to see if there was anything that he could do.
As bad as I hate to say this, I think I see where a good portion of my X's disfunction and avoidance comes from. Her father is a piece of work and has always been very rough on those around him. Now all three of their children have the initiaters of at least one divorce and are not exactly good models for fathers/mothers/husbands/wives.
Steve..it seems like lines get drawn in the sand in these things and it's hard to keep that from happening. Not one thing you can do about it..
good on the trip you made..
it seems like lines get drawn in the sand in these things and it's hard to keep that from happening. Not one thing you can do about it..
Yeah, I know. It is just so uncomfortable. They are in town until Wed. Tonight my D14 will be cheering at a HS basketball game and tomorrow night my D11 will be playing in an elementary basketball game. They will be there for both and things will be weird yet again. What is going to be doubly weird is if X's new BF comes to either. I know it will be happening soon but the weirdness with them all there would be a lot!!
If I were as shallow as her I could bring along my 29 year old "friend" and rattle some cages!
Weird how the
serious thought of doing something like that has never crossed my mind!
Hey Steve..
I adore reading about loving dads, guys who put their kids welfare first.
Those social interactions are only as weird as you make them. If you go with no expectations, no intentions and thinking positive thoughts, the experience will be positive.
Earlier this summer my daughter was in a play. I worked backstage but had tickets for all four shows. The second night I was a wreck, petrified that her father would show with the woman he moved in with the moment he left the house. My anxiety level was through the roof.
Just last week, my daughter was in another performance that ran over two weekends. I bought tickets for each show. I didn't look for him, I didn't care if he was there. I was there solely for the joy in watching and sharing in her experience and seeing her perform.
It's a big difference.
Like someone said earlier, it sounds like your former spouse is far too involved in your life. I keep very low expectations for my spouse (the father who spends an hour, if that, with my daughter and her brothers (if they're in town) a week (if that!)).
Just like us, our spouses have their strengths and weaknesses. Forgiving my spouse who left goes a long way in improving my life.
*hugs*
PS.. I bet you like take possession of the remote when watching Tide games.
well..how's this for uncomfortable. My mom is 76 my dad 83. My former FIL has decided that he would like to maintain contact with them, be friends even though there was no friendship before the D was final. He has sent a Xmas card to them with a message to my mom and dad. The Gist of the card is basically he wants to maintain a friendship with them even though Kim and I are no longer married, he's sorry that the marriage has failed but has realized that it is probably, "for the better". I'm pretty pissed about the card from him especaillly since I feel he is playing games. He has called me psycotic and dangerous via email..so I feel his reaching out to them is a game..
at the moment I'm being still. I've ask my mom not to respond simply because I do not know what action to take if any..
and after my first D..My first W used to bring her new boyfriend to the exchange place all the time..
Hey Mikey...
You're a smart guy... that means your parents aren't stupid.. right? Are they infirm, incapable? Are they strong people with values? Do they have their own thoughts?
How did they feel about the card? What was their take on it?
That card is insulting to you, but it wasn't sent to you. Was the email where you were described as psychotic and dangerous sent to you? As tough as it is.. those things are none of your business. If your parents ask for your input that's one thing.
Maybe it's right to be vigilant and look at each action having a strategic meaning. For me though.. what other folks say about me is none of my business. What they say directly to me, is.
The action with the card is up to your mom and dad. If they want a relationship with the guy, it's their choice. And if their choice if it's polite, thanks but not thanks or whatever level of involvement they want.
You're Caleigh's daddy.. the best thing in the world.
Drop the rope and go fishing.
You're a good guy.
*hugs*
And about the drop off thing with the first wife... you didn't have control then, you won't have it now. Keep your expectations low about her behavior and your head high.
Hey Mikey...
You're a smart guy... that means your parents aren't stupid.. right? Are they infirm, incapable? Are they strong people with values? Do they have their own thoughts?
How did they feel about the card? What was their take on it?
That card is insulting to you, but it wasn't sent to you. Was the email where you were described as psychotic and dangerous sent to you? As tough as it is.. those things are none of your business. If your parents ask for your input that's one thing.
Maybe it's right to be vigilant and look at each action having a strategic meaning. For me though.. what other folks say about me is none of my business. What they say directly to me, is.
The action with the card is up to your mom and dad. If they want a relationship with the guy, it's their choice. And if their choice if it's polite, thanks but not thanks or whatever level of involvement they want.
You're Caleigh's daddy.. the best thing in the world.
Drop the rope and go fishing.
You're a good guy.
*hugs*
And about the drop off thing with the first wife... you didn't have control then, you won't have it now. Keep your expectations low about her behavior and your head high.
sorry kathleen..I don't agree with your post..very little of it.
I've dropped the rope..I do not attempt to maintain contact. I do not attempt to play games. It appears they do..
I'm not holding on...
and yep..I snooped in her f**king email..and I would do it again..because I was not attempting to save my marriage..
I was saving myself..
Like I said..
LINES IN THE SAND...
and I figure my mom made the card my business when she told me she got it..when she read it to me..
Those social interactions are only as weird as you make them. If you go with no expectations, no intentions and thinking positive thoughts, the experience will be positive.
You are right! That is why I stumbled back to this site, I just need constant reminders.
Like someone said earlier, it sounds like your former spouse is far too involved in your life.
Yes mam she is... have been working on correcting that for the last couple of weeks. It does make life so much easier.
Just like us, our spouses have their strengths and weaknesses. Forgiving my spouse who left goes a long way in improving my life..
I'm getting there... Probably 95%, at least that is how I feel today.
PS.. I bet you like take possession of the remote when watching Tide games.
Oh no... only during TN Titan games! I'm an SEC fan to be sure, went to Auburn, grew up in TN, had friend play for the Tide. At the end of the season I just want to see an SEC team go to the BSC Championship game and kick the crap out of some team from outside of the SEC. Would be cool if somehow FL and AL could tie, end up ranked #1 and #2 in the BSC, and go to the Championship game to slug it out again!
I'm concerned for your 29 yo "friend."
I'm not sure how much you are looking out for her feelings in all of this.
You've said that you are sure she would want you to stay in town but might go away anyway because it will keep things, "loose." It won't keep things loose, it will keep you in control, calling all the shots, making sure she's in the background to fill YOUR needs but you aren't there when she wants you.
And then you talk about how you could bring her to a sporting game but it never occurred to you.
Look, if you don't want anything serious with anyone that's fine, but it's not okay to use someone just to keep you from being lonely either.
Even though you may have told her you don't want anything serious, if you know that she does and you can tell that she is holding on hoping for something more, than I think you should end it with her. It's not fair to her.
and if you're not ready for a relationship then why are you dating. Maybe you should concentrate on finding friends. We don't more heart breaks in this world.
I don't know if the 29yo has any children of her own, but if she doesn't and she would like to have some and you are done, then she is just wasting her time with you and you are using her to get your needs met.
Okay, the BF wasn't at the game last night so the weirdness factor was not there. X FIL actually came in and sat down next to me wanting to chat it up. Said he wanted to sit with the "non-crazy" people. At the end of the game he called me over and told me a story about my son, Josh, telling him that the saddest day of his life was when Mom & Dad got a divorce. X FIL actually teared up a bit himself. I guess that was his way of telling me that he is sad too. He's a gruf old bastard but I guess he was trying.
well..how's this for uncomfortable.
Mike,
A wise guy told me once to "just smile and waive". Sounds like that's what you ought to do today, just smile and waive.
Steve
Whitelight,
Fair enough. I will definitely think about everything you have said and evaluate my relationship with my 29 yo "friend".
I personally think you may have been a bit harsh on me and that you took some of the things I said (occurring to me) in the wrong manner. However, for about 60-75% you are probably right. I should sit down and talk to her about her expecations and how they line up with my own.
Thanks,
Steve
Steve,
So what's became of your wife asking if you should date or if you miss her? Has that dried up? Has she stopped being a slutty barfly?
I'd like to chime in about the 29 year old friend. I disagree with whitelight about all of that. She's a grown woman. If what you are offering isn't enough, then she can skedattle. But breaking it off solely because you aren't on the same page at the moment is silly. You might come around and you might be the happiest couple ever. I do think that it is a little telling that you haven't introduced her that much into your life. You're divorced dude...bringing your FF to games and such, even if your XW is there isn't weird, it's a fact of life. People move on. Yes, I bring my current wife to events where my XW is. I brought her when she was a gf. It's part of the territory of being a divorced person.
PD,
Yes, she stopped with all of that, I assume about the time she met her current BF. And another yes, it would appear that her current relationship is keeping her out of the bars. As far as I am concerned, and I've told her this, it is FANTASTIC! If I don't have to listen to the kids complain about their Mom stumbling in at 4AM, juggling mutliple guys, acting like White Trash, etc, etc, it is a VERY good thing! I fully expect her current relationship to tank at some point and she might get back to doing the same stuff, but maybe I'll be wrong. All I know is that this is the 3rd guy she has been "in love" with since we separated a year ago.
Thanks for the chime on the 29 yo friend. I felt like I've expressed my sitch to her. I was thinking what you said. I mean she is a great girl, a great catch, who knows where this might go. I don't... I have been very sensitive to the feelings of all the women I have dated and I think that shows by the fact that I'm still friends with all of them. If I were being an insensitive jerk, I'm sure someone would have called me out on that by now.
I have been introducing her into my life with the sole exception of my kids. I've been introducing her to my friends, spoken about her to my Father, brother, etc. I would have zero qualms about bringing her into a sitch where I knew my X would be either. I've even told my kids the name of the person I've been dating. What I haven't done is bring her into their lives at all. Their Mom has put them through some life-changing stuff over the last year and this sudden intro of the new BF is just the latest. I do not want to contribute to this by doing the same from my side right now. I'll take it slow and fly very low. I have made up my mind that I won't be introducing them to anyone, at least not an introduction in the capacity of "this is my girlfriend", until I KNOW that there is a distinct possibility that things could become serious.
I have spoken with this in length w/ GF29. I explained everything and I know she understands. Her BFF is 42, divorced, and has 3 kids and thinks the same as me. At some point the time will be right for my kids to meet someone from my side, but the time isn't now. My kids need to heal a little bit more before then. I can delay things on my side until then. For their eyes, I don't need to be "Dad that can get a girlfriend", I just need to be "Dad". The need some consistency in their lives.
In defense of Whitelight... some of that I do need to consider. This is definitely a different dynamic, dealing w/ someone much younger, never been married, no kids, etc.
I get where you are coming from. I have to remember that you are really new to divorce and such. I didn't date anyone for like 3 years after separation; so it wasn't so much of an issue. I wouldn't introduce my kids rapidly to anyone either, if I were you.
As long as you've been pretty upfront on what you are ready for in terms of a relationship, then I'm not sure how much further you can take it. Obviously this "friend" may want children down the line (have you asked her?) and you might have feelings about that also. If she asks, be forthcoming about your willingness to have kids, in generic terms, but anything to gf specific kind of gives the notion that she's more to you than she really is.
Hey Steve..
Just checking in. Saying Hey...
You know all that sport talk you put in your reply to me went right over my head? Where did my parents go wrong?
Have a great day..
*hugs*
I do not want to contribute to this by doing the same from my side right now.
it isn't rocket science is it? I wonder why stbx is so clueless about this. I'm glad you will wait it out and see where the R goes before your kids meet gf, there are decent men left in this world after all...
[quote]! If I don't have to listen to the kids complain about their Mom stumbling in at 4AM, juggling mutliple guys, acting like White Trash, etc, [quote]
and I thought I had problems with stbx's gf...
I know that stbx ruined it for me for the next 3yrs at least (well, not that im in a hurry or anything) but I dont' think I'll date in the next 2yrs at least, and if I do my kids wont' meet unless it is very serious. Someone has to give them a good example.
Thanks for checking in G! Sports talk is all gibberish anyway!
Things are pretty good I guess. X's BF has been primary issue with all the kids over the last few weeks but I think that I've grown comfortable in how I handle it with them. I guess that is why I wish X had given me a heads up, so I could mentally prepare myself on how to discuss it with the kids. All is good now and I think I'm doing a good job of being there for the kids, especially with this issue.
Middle daughter (D14) called me crying last night saying she wanted to move in with me because of her Mom and how she acts. I talked her down from the ledge and I think I had her feeling good about things by the end of the convo. X picked up other line (she called from land line) and heard me say one sentence, "If you want to come stay with me just let me know ahead of time". She blurted out "REALLY!" and hung up. After convo I called her (1st time in about a week) and explained the context, explained to her that I was telling D14 that if she wanted to spend extra time with me then she would need to plan it with both her parents. This went well. Think X actually believed me instead of thinking I was an a$$hole.
She went on to explain that the reason for the big blowout was that D14 was not treating her with respect, not treating her like a mother. She said that D14 told her that she hadn't been acting like a mother for awhile. X told her that she would from this point forward. I just listened and validated... Didn't want to discuss anymore than I had to.
So, I guess we are moving gingerly on in the new dynamic that is our family! I'm getting better with it each day, in a large part due to all the great people here. Have been doing better since I started hanging back out here again!
Again, thanks for checking in!
Steve
Thanks for checking in G! Sports talk is all gibberish anyway![/qoote]
I'm framing that and putting it on the wall!
Things are pretty good I guess. X's BF has been primary issue with all the kids over the last few weeks but I think that I've grown comfortable in how I handle it with them. I guess that is why I wish X had given me a heads up, so I could mentally prepare myself on how to discuss it with the kids. All is good now and I think I'm doing a good job of being there for the kids, especially with this issue.
Why not ask her to do that in advance..
Middle daughter (D14) called me crying last night saying she wanted to move in with me because of her Mom and how she acts. I talked her down from the ledge and I think I had her feeling good about things by the end of the convo.
Good daddy!!!!!!
X picked up other line (she called from land line) and heard me say one sentence, "If you want to come stay with me just let me know ahead of time". She blurted out "REALLY!" and hung up. After convo I called her (1st time in about a week) and explained the context, explained to her that I was telling D14 that if she wanted to spend extra time with me then she would need to plan it with both her parents. This went well. Think X actually believed me instead of thinking I was an a$$hole.
Were you anything close to an a*hole? Do you think she's concerned about her actions.. interrupting/listening to a private conversation? Avoid the triangles. Keep it straight lines of communication.. you with your daughter, you with your ex-spouse. What's more important.. being a dad or smoothing your ex wife's feathers?
Dang .. this isn't coming out right..
I always felt I was in the wrong in some way in my marriage. I always worried about how I screwed up.. rather than even pondering to think that I was doing a good job. Over time I accepted blame as being a constant.. and that I was at fault. This past week, I'm watching spouse deplete our 401k, blaming me for causing this.. not the attorney he picked who's demanding it.
strange..
She went on to explain that the reason for the big blowout was that D14 was not treating her with respect, not treating her like a mother. She said that D14 told her that she hadn't been acting like a mother for awhile. X told her that she would from this point forward. I just listened and validated... Didn't want to discuss anymore than I had to.
So, I guess we are moving gingerly on in the new dynamic that is our family! I'm getting better with it each day, in a large part due to all the great people here. Have been doing better since I started hanging back out here again!
Again, thanks for checking in!
Steve
Yikes.... hit submit instead of checking the post!
It's sounds good that your ex wife is on more stable footing and that the new guy is grounding her. The rift between her and your daughter is something she hs to deal with and heal.
Your little girl had to do some fast growing up with her mother's aberrant behavior and needs to know she's safe and can be a kid. Well.. that's just what I think.. a counselor would know better. Kids come first.. period.
*hugs*
Kids come first.. period.
Couln't agree more. I think it is working out that way too.
Wow, we actually have SNOW this morning here in Nashville!! Unheard of!! Hope everyone enjoys their day!
We have snow here too Steve! I couldn't believe that it was sticking. Took me forever to get to work this morning, lots of ice on the road.
Finally able to sit down and decipher!
I'm framing that and putting it on the wall!
Cool!
Why not ask her to do that in advance..
Water under the bridge now. I wished she had given me warning that she was going to inject new (and first for kids) BF into their lives so fully. Had she, I could have prepared and felt better about how I was handling things initially. Now, it is done and I think I did okay and am actually doing a good job now. I don't know if there are any other future 1st time "issues" we'll be tackling with the kids other than stuff from my side. I'm just glad that things aren't any worse than they already are. Could have gone better, but then again, isn't that normal?
Were you anything close to an a*hole? Do you think she's concerned about her actions.. interrupting/listening to a private conversation? Avoid the triangles. Keep it straight lines of communication.. you with your daughter, you with your ex-spouse. What's more important.. being a dad or smoothing your ex wife's feathers?
I wasn't even close to being an a$$hole. As a matter of fact I thought I was being quite nice about the whole deal and handling it well. X and D14 got in big fight. X took cell phone away. D14 called me on land line crying saying she wanted to come stay with me because of her Mom. I was calming her down and X picked up other line and listened, hearing just once sentence I guess. I finished convo with D14 then called X on her cell and explained context of what she had heard. I could really give a rat's a$$ about X's take on it but saw no need to leave it hanging like it was. She shouldn't have listened in to my convo with D14 but she did.
I have decided over the last month that I need to be there for my kids and be willing to talk with them openly, no matter how that affects the X. It has made things easier on me since it has more clearly defined what I should and should NOT worry about. Makes my life more simple.
I always felt I was in the wrong in some way in my marriage. I always worried about how I screwed up.. rather than even pondering to think that I was doing a good job. Over time I accepted blame as being a constant.. and that I was at fault. This past week, I'm watching spouse deplete our 401k, blaming me for causing this.. not the attorney he picked who's demanding it.
Yep... know how you feel on this one. I've quit accepting the blame. I am trying to live me life for my kids and for myself, not worrying about how that affects the X. If she decides to blame me for anything, so be it. I'm doing the best I can in the situation that she put us all in. I'd like to see her do better if the roles were reversed.
We have snow here too Steve! I couldn't believe that it was sticking. Took me forever to get to work this morning, lots of ice on the road.
TOTALLY caught me off guard! I had to pick up D11 and her team mates to deliver them to an elementary school basketball game. It was sleating then (4PM). When game started (5PM) it was snowing hard. By 6PM it was slick as all get out. Drove to the gym to get my run in and when I came out the snow had turned to rain, roads were clear. Got back over to my end of town and it was snowing again, VERY hard this time! Thought plans for night with friends were cancelled so I was vegging on couch watching TV. Friend knocked on door at 9:30 and told me to get my butt up and showered! When we came home at midnight things weren't so bad. This morning at 6AM the roads were solid ice!
Alas... everything is melting off now.
It'll probably be 65 and sunny by this afternoon! Such is weather in the South!
Steve,
Sounds like you are striking the right balance. It's basically the same DBing technique of detaching from your (now X)S and focusing on you and the kids.
Never a bad plan!
SD
Update...
Thinks are just moving along. Sent X an email about holiday schedule with kids last Thursday. Per court papers she would get them from the time they get out of school until noon on Christmas Day. I get them from then until they go back. Long story short they would be with her for 8 days and me for 12. Told her that if they weren't going out of town I would like to get them for a night in the middle of that. I did some switching for her over Thanksgiving and ended up not having them for 7 nights. Missed them a bunch and tried to get them for dinner in the middle. She wouldn't do it and said kids didn't want to go. Kids told me it was her not wanting them to go with me. Decided I wouldn't leave things to "chance" anymore and that we needed firm schedule. In email I told her I would like to get them one night and she could have them during my time if she wanted, but NOT required. She didn't answer, told me she would over weekend.
Kids came to me last Friday. Weekend went good. My D14 is a HS cheerleader and they were in the local Christmas Parade on Sunday. I met her at the end of the parade route and we had to drive back to the middle of the route to get her stuff from her friends car. She said her Mom and BF were close by. I figured I would "break the ice" and meet the BF since my D16 is so protective of me when other kids talk about him when I am around. D14, D11, and myself went over to where they were but he wasn't around. X was there with his two young kids. D11 got a bit upset afterwards because she said that her Mom was acting like theirs.
Rest of weekend went good and the kids went home w/ Mom after school on Monday. I had to drop their stuff they left at my place off at her place on Monday evening. X came out and we talked about Christmas presents for kids and she gave me verbal ok for getting the kids on Sunday night the 21st.
Yesterday morning I sent another email and sent her a text saying I had sent one to "confirm holiday schedule". I wanted her to be clear as to which night I wanted them. She replied back that there was "nothing to confirm". I called her and asked about what we had talked about the night before. She got upset because I only wanted them for one night, she understood it as being two. She said she would read my email and reply back to confirm. She hadn't done so by 9PM so I sent another text asking her, she said she would do it "shortly".
This morning still no response so I sent another text. She called and we talked about it. She was still pissy about the "one night instead of two" thing but said okay. I told her that the reason I was doing this via email was so that we were very clear on what was going on. She said she might want them during my 12 nights but doesn't know for sure since she might go on a trip. I told her fine, I would be willing to do whatever she wants as long it doesn't interfere with plans, but that I needed to know ahead of time so I could make my plans with kids. She said she prefers just playing things by ear.
My problem with "playing things by ear" goes back to the way things go when we do this, like during Thanksgiving. I always get the short end of the stick and she constantly wants me to pick them up early because she "has plans". It is always a bit of a fiasco and generally involves tension between us because of her shifting expectations.
Hopefully I wasn't wrong in asking her to deviate from the court plan then expecting her to be firm on the modified schedule. I was just trying to ensure some time with the kids and a known schedule so I could plan.
hope you get decent time with kids. We do the same in relation with kids, fudge it here and there and at least he is civil about that.
Steve..
While you're busy adjusting the schedule be thankful that both you and their mother want to be actively involved in the childrens' lives. That's not always the case.
*hugs*
Update...
Thinks are just moving along. Sent X an email about holiday schedule with kids last Thursday. Per court papers she would get them from the time they get out of school until noon on Christmas Day. I get them from then until they go back. Long story short they would be with her for 8 days and me for 12. Told her that if they weren't going out of town I would like to get them for a night in the middle of that. I did some switching for her over Thanksgiving and ended up not having them for 7 nights. Missed them a bunch and tried to get them for dinner in the middle. She wouldn't do it and said kids didn't want to go. Kids told me it was her not wanting them to go with me. Decided I wouldn't leave things to "chance" anymore and that we needed firm schedule. In email I told her I would like to get them one night and she could have them during my time if she wanted, but NOT required. She didn't answer, told me she would over weekend.
Kids came to me last Friday. Weekend went good. My D14 is a HS cheerleader and they were in the local Christmas Parade on Sunday. I met her at the end of the parade route and we had to drive back to the middle of the route to get her stuff from her friends car. She said her Mom and BF were close by. I figured I would "break the ice" and meet the BF since my D16 is so protective of me when other kids talk about him when I am around. D14, D11, and myself went over to where they were but he wasn't around. X was there with his two young kids. D11 got a bit upset afterwards because she said that her Mom was acting like theirs.
Rest of weekend went good and the kids went home w/ Mom after school on Monday. I had to drop their stuff they left at my place off at her place on Monday evening. X came out and we talked about Christmas presents for kids and she gave me verbal ok for getting the kids on Sunday night the 21st.
Yesterday morning I sent another email and sent her a text saying I had sent one to "confirm holiday schedule". I wanted her to be clear as to which night I wanted them. She replied back that there was "nothing to confirm". I called her and asked about what we had talked about the night before. She got upset because I only wanted them for one night, she understood it as being two. She said she would read my email and reply back to confirm. She hadn't done so by 9PM so I sent another text asking her, she said she would do it "shortly".
This morning still no response so I sent another text. She called and we talked about it. She was still pissy about the "one night instead of two" thing but said okay. I told her that the reason I was doing this via email was so that we were very clear on what was going on. She said she might want them during my 12 nights but doesn't know for sure since she might go on a trip. I told her fine, I would be willing to do whatever she wants as long it doesn't interfere with plans, but that I needed to know ahead of time so I could make my plans with kids. She said she prefers just playing things by ear.
My problem with "playing things by ear" goes back to the way things go when we do this, like during Thanksgiving. I always get the short end of the stick and she constantly wants me to pick them up early because she "has plans". It is always a bit of a fiasco and generally involves tension between us because of her shifting expectations.
Hopefully I wasn't wrong in asking her to deviate from the court plan then expecting her to be firm on the modified schedule. I was just trying to ensure some time with the kids and a known schedule so I could plan.
ya know I see things the same as you do on the co-parenting. I want something on paper to fall back on but also want to be as flexible as possible while being fair..and I want it fair for both Kim and myself..
true dat!!
I'm off duck hunting in Missouri w/ my Dad (72). I am flat out beat!
LMAO!!!!!
That was funny G! Totally caught me off-guard and I laughed. Ducks were relatively safe this trip. Too much ice and what not!
Had my kiddos for about 35 hours and it was good. I cooked their favorite meal last night and we baked a boat load of cookies. They had a big time decorating them, wrapping gifts, and wrapping up cookie plates to give to their friends. It was a good time and I'm looking forward to getting them back on Thursday!
I was reading the boards through the holidays but just didn't seem to have the time to post anything. So here is my update...
Holidays went well, very well. No emo stuff, just relaxation and good times with the kids. X asked for the kids during my 12 days with them and was actually quite civil, albeit scatter-brained about it. She kept changing her mind on when she wanted them right up to the 24 hr prior mark. Prevented me from scheduling an 11th hour trip to Missouri to get in one last duck hunt, but no biggie. Only true irritant was her hitting me up for extra money and then me seeing how much she spent on kids presents. She outspent me, but again, no biggie. Took a minor gut punch when I learned that her BF had given each of my kids gift cards for Christmas. Just a first time experience I guess.
With the New Years comes resolutions! I was oh so thrilled to be completely DONE with 2008 and decided to turn the corner across the board:
- Go beyond being civil with X and actually try to be friendly
- Don't allow discussions of X to be a part of convos with old friends. If they start talking about the past, change the subject!**
I've been holding to this quite well. I still don't answer her calls if I don't want to, but normally I will. If she starts being chatty I'll just tell her I'm busy and try to get her to get her point across quickly. I've been a smartass to her (which is my normal self) instead of being very dry. She has noticed and it makes her smile.
Her having a steady BF has been a GREAT thing even though it came with an initial crisis that I had to wing with the kids. In the end though, she is not the bar hopping "you know what" that she was before. The emo feelings w/ the kids in regards to having a new man in Mom's life are trivial when compared to me worrying about the stuff they might hear/think about their Mom.
** Decided to make this a resolution when I met a woman before Christmas who had "hung out" with my X through a mutual friend on four or five occasions. She went through the "oh my god, I can't believe she gave you up for what I've seen her with" and started to get sort of explicit and graphic. It had been quite some time since I had heard stuff like that, and I told her I could really care less. Had to scratch her off the list because of that, which is a shame. She is my age, quite successful, was a college swimmer, and has a body that a 25 year old would kill for!
Beyond that, some for me:
- Get to the gym FIVE times a week, even when the kids are with me
- Include weight training with my cardio.
- Concentrate on abs workout!
- Reign in my diet a bit and cut back on the beer so my ab workout will be noticeable.
- Start looking for opportunities to have "adult interaction" when I have the kids with me. I'm not talking about having a GF around, I'm talking about more group stuff, selections on where to eat out, etc.
- Take the kids on TWO vacations this year!
I want there to be no doubt in anyone's mind
Hey Steve..
Happy New Year!
Those sound like great resolutions and objectives. Duck hunting.. huh? A sport that targets fowl play with ducks and Vice Presidents. The only thing I've ever hunted is bargains.
You could probably start mentoring on how to be divorced. Now why did you cross off the swim/graphic lady? Because she talked too much or gave you a bad feeling?
I'm taking notes on how you manage your boundaries with her. Has it gotten easier over time.. and how so?
Good to see you around.
*hugs*
Happy New Year to you G!
As for duck hunting and VP's... if you are talking about the esteemed Dick Cheney, that was actually quail hunting excursion when he "shot" that guy. For those of you who've never quail or dove hunted, it is actually not that unusual to get "shot". Peppered is the phrase we use. Granted, he got this guy pretty good but it was more carelessness on the part of the guy that got shot than Cheney.
I'm gonnna "cut" the swim/graphic lady just because I don't really want to hear about my X any. Definitely not with someone that I am involved with. I'd just assume not have someone that knows anything about her. Who knows, maybe I'll back off on that but for now there will be nothing more than a new friend, and you can't have enough of those. When she has spoken of her it has been in flattering terms towards me. When I met her she literally gawked at me for over an hour before she admitted knowing my X. Just kept going on about not understanding her.
I saw a movie that listed the mistakes a divorced guy makes, one was talking about his X wife. I don't need help in that department! There are plenty of women out there that haven't "hung out" with my X. However, it will be tough to find a 45 year old with a body like that!!!!!!!! SMOKIN!!
It has gotten easier. I think that while painful at times, I've had a crash course on some of the tougher post-D topics. There is very little that is new and I've gotten pretty good with dealing with the normal fare. Maybe it is that she has started to evolve back into somewhat of a normal human being? Who knows.
As I've worried less about her and TRULY focused on my kids and myself, the boundaries are easier to enforce. I really don't care all that much about what she thinks of me now and I don't allow her to "play" me like she used to. She has turned into "someone I know" versus someone close.
Life is good...
A buddy of mine was in downtown Nashville tonight at the Yazoo Brewery. Brought me back a gallon of Dos Perros! Awesome beer for anyone fortunate enough to have it available!
Ok y'all, I need to run something by everyone to get their input on it. First, let me say that things have been going smooth. X is very serious w/ her new BF (since November) and that has kept her out of bars and therefore no more "white trash" antics to upset the kids. Kudos to her. I've been doing great! We've done a decent job of co-parenting. While X hasn't been doing bar-fly stuff and the initial issues from meeting the BF have worn off, I have heard a constant "gripe" from the kids, especially the youngest. They get jealous of time X spends with BF and his kids while they are with her. No biggie, I can counsel them through this.
Our house hasn't sold so the financial terms of the divorce (CS & A) haven't kicked in. Basically, I'm responsible for all. Hasn't been bad since she quit going to bars and burning money like it was going out of style. For the most part she hasn't been hitting me up for money that I didn't feel like was fair.
So, things have been good, not much convo between me and X, civil & borderline friendly when it happens.
Now, on to what I need advice on. This entire month she has been hitting me up regularly for additional money. I haven't complained, figured it was easier to just cough it up versus debate it. Last night the kids came over to my place for their normal "every other Wednesday night". They told me that the oldest son of the BF (he's 14 & in same grade/school as my middle D) has been staying at the house for the last week and a half, sleeping on the sofa in the TV room.
Okay, I have two issues with this and I'm not sure how, or if I should, voice them to X:
- He's a 14 year old boy in the house with my 16, 14, and 11 year old daughters. They haven't known him that long. What if "something" happens? I just don't think it is proper and I think that I should somehow document my objection. I can understand a night here and there if circumstances are dramatic, but almost two weeks? I just don't think my girls, for that matter my 8 year old son, should be subjected to this. I know it is a stretch and I should be able to trust judgement of my X (wouldn't knowingly put kids in harm's way), but I don't. I think she is all about impressing her new BF.
- The secondary, and not so important thing, is that it irritates me that I now know why her expenses are going up. She is feeding a 14 year old boy every day, not to mention entertaining her BF and his other two sons almost every night.
What would y'all do?
Hey Steve..
Cohabitation in Connecticut would negate your responsibility to continue alimony for your wife. You'd have to go to trial to adjust it.
Is the amount you pay voluntary? Are you paying above what the guidelines for the child support and alimony? My ex spouse paid me 40% of his NET take home pay, which was considered equitable in CT for child support and alimony during the divorce process making it very difficult for me to support the family and household.
Now that the divorce is final I receive 40% of his GROSS income.
It's your choice what you do. She'll keep going to the well until it dries up.
As far as the 14 year old boy, I don't think you have many options. Counsel your daughters and son about appropriate behavior, what should be expected.
Net, net, I'd limit the payments to what is reasonable and customary. When in doubt, let the additional money go toward paying half of the kids activities if you're not already doing that.
Hope it helps.
Like I was told when it comes to making a decision:
If the answer is yes, it's yes.
If the answer is no, it's no.
If you waffle, the answer is no.
Go with your gut and make sure the sale of the house isn't be dragged out for the monetary gain (and later divorce restrictions) of your wife.
*hugs*
Our house hasn't sold so the financial terms of the divorce (CS & A) haven't kicked in. Basically, I'm responsible for all. Hasn't been bad since she quit going to bars and burning money like it was going out of style. For the most part she hasn't been hitting me up for money that I didn't feel like was fair.
Thanks for the quick response G!
See above, Child Support & Alimoney haven't kicked in yet because the house hasn't sold. I have to pay ALL expenses at both houses until it does sell. She isn't dragging out the process, she wants to move very badly.
I do have it in our D papers that if she marries or cohabitates then the alimoney ends. Much to her disapproval. That will be the issue once the house sells. I strongly suspect she will move in with BF at that time. Her choice. I'd hate it for my kids but would be great for me in terms of $$. The alimoney is more than the child support.
The additional money I've been giving her isn't a major issue, more of an irritant. My primary concern is the boy staying over that much. If I didn't have three pretty daughters, it wouldn't be as big of a deal. I just feel like I should send her an email in order to "document" that I don't approve. If I say nothing to her, am I not giving tacit approval?
Just my 2 cents, I would send an email and document your point of view as tactfully as possible. I mean she can't know these kids that well already and hormones are starting to rage at that point.
Just let her know that you aren't saying anything will happen but why put chum in the water if you aren't wanting to attract sharks??
kat
Steve..I would contact my L and ask..I think you do have options as far as the BF's son staying..is the BF staying over also?? I would also think that if this boy is staying over then you should not have to feed him...with your money..JMO...I know if it was me..she would be getting what the law allowed her to have and no more....that's what she is entitled to..no more..no less..
Thanks guys... I pondered it for the day and in the end decided to sent a txt first, so as not to drive the discussion into an argument right off the bat. Fewer words, more direct question.
"Hey. Kids told me that KIDSNAME has been sleeping over a lot. What's up with that?"
She answered back yes and asked me if it was okay. I responded negative and she pretty much agreed to stop it. I'm monitoring it now, will follow up with more if need be. Talked to a L about "No overnight guests of opposite sex & not in family" clause in papers. He said that covered the SON of her BF. :-) Bet she didn't expect that!
Anyway, for the time being all is quiet on that front.
Mike, I got floored by a woman I met last night. It was someone that friends have been trying to get me to meet for a few weeks now. Went to a birthday party for three of us whose birthday was yesterday, friends invited her. Didn't think all that much of it and I wasn't holding my breath, but... WOW! We really hit it off. Dated a few women over the last year but this one is different some how!
Hey Steve..
Ohhh.. how neat to have those tingly feelings... does she purr?
*hugs*
Talked to a L about "No overnight guests of opposite sex & not in family" clause in papers. He said that covered the SON of her BF. :-) Bet she didn't expect that!
That will put a wrench in working out a system where they can have the kids at the same time and then no kids at other times so they can have some fun!!! The OM will have to have either his kids or hers over almost everyday and that will cramp their style!!!
Hey Steve.....I want to add tha clause to my D papers as well. Thing is I have been told that it really doesnt hold water. What recourse did your L say you would have if she did break it? And how did you get her to agree to the "losing alimony if she cohabitates"? My L told me that cohabitation does not make alimony go away. Just curious. Glad to see that someone new can rock your world a bit. Kudos to you!
Mike, I got floored by a woman I met last night. It was someone that friends have been trying to get me to meet for a few weeks now. Went to a birthday party for three of us whose birthday was yesterday, friends invited her. Didn't think all that much of it and I wasn't holding my breath, but... WOW! We really hit it off. Dated a few women over the last year but this one is different some how!
good for you..man..
Hey Steve..by the way..is this woman a friend of yours on FB??
Sorry for the slight hijack. My L told me that I will have alimony for 6 years for our 19 years of marriage unless I remarry or cohabitate for 30+ days. The thing that sucks is he can do whatever, no penalties for him cohabitating!
Ok back to the regular line of discussion!
kat
Hey Steve.....I want to add tha clause to my D papers as well. Thing is I have been told that it really doesnt hold water. What recourse did your L say you would have if she did break it? And how did you get her to agree to the "losing alimony if she cohabitates"? My L told me that cohabitation does not make alimony go away. Just curious. Glad to see that someone new can rock your world a bit. Kudos to you!
Don't know how much water it will hold, but she has pulled the "read the papers/gonna call the lawyer" at least a few times. As for the losing alimoney on cohabitation, even her lawyer told her that there was no reason in trying to fight that one. L said that for 20+ year marriages the "alimoney for life" was more doable. She has 8 years. First 2 at 100% then it graduates down from there. The 8th year she gets 10% of the original amount.
Hey Steve..by the way..is this woman a friend of yours on FB??
Yeah... her picture doesn't do her justice at all. She has a personality and a half, really glows. Great girl!
As for the losing alimoney on cohabitation, even her lawyer told her that there was no reason in trying to fight that one. L said that for 20+ year marriages the "alimoney for life" was more doable. She has 8 years. First 2 at 100% then it graduates down from there. The 8th year she gets 10% of the original amount.
That is one of those things that varies from state to state. I was married 21 years and got alimony for life, same amount. But it ends if I remarry or cohabitate for more than one year, that is state law here.
L said that for 20+ year marriages the "alimoney for life" was more doable.
LOL!!! Freudian Slip!
Ah hell, might as well give an update...
LIFE IS GREAT!
I thought I was cruisin before but now things are superb! Yeah, pretty shallow I know, but the lady I met on my birthday is certainly panning out and making me a serious happy camper!
Now, I have dated quite a few women since my Sep/Div but I was never able to find one that I truly connected with. Well, just when I thought I was probably at the height of my... what do I call it, negativity maybe. I had truly resigned myself to thinking that I wasn't able to "connect" with someone because of something that was wrong with me. I was good with it, figured it would pass in time. Then, in one night... boom!
I'm not talking thoughts of marriage or anything even close to that, but at least I now have some reassurance that there ARE people out there that I can connect with, and that they can be the type of people that I want to connect with.
Anyway, long story short, I'm cruisin the same road Mike is and enjoying it. It's nice to be reminded that life is good!
man, you sound great! glad things are working for you
steve
thanks for your support on my thread
good to see there is life after D
Happy that you are enjoying your life and connecting in another R
I have learned so much from this nightmare--really feel confident that next time around it will be better and better than anything I could have created with my STBX
peace
No sweat Peace! That is what we are here for. The people on this site are truly remarkable and this has always been the place where I can find comfort, advice, and wisdom. No doubt I would have been in a world of hurt were it not for people here!
Yeah, if nothing else it is MOST DEFINITELY a learning process, huh?!? Crap, not one I would ever wish on anybody else but we have to climb the mountains the Good Lord puts in front of us. I think the most important thing I gained from this experience that will help me in future relationships is the whole GAL/PMA thing. I now KNOW who I am, what I am about, and I'm not willing to set that aside ever again for someone else. Bottom line is that if we can be happy with ourselves then we can be in happy relationships as long as we seek out others who are the same!
Progress Report:
All is still good but just wanted to journal a bit about a moment from this last weekend. If nothing else, to remind myself I am doing good!
On Friday night I was out with my new "friend". We were at a local pub with a group. There was a good local band playing. I rode out a "double whammy" that would have ruined my night just a few months ago.
The place was crowded and the group I was with had a big table in the heart of the place. At some point I happen to catch a guy looking at me. He smiled, and then "nodded" a hello. After a few seconds I realized it was the guy my X "dated" during the last months of our sep. He is from my hometown and is a scraggly looking punk. Sorry, I know his background and he truly is. Looking at him, and who he was with, then looking at my new "friend" beside me, was all the reminder I needed that what my X went through that led up to our D had nothing to do with me. I am by no means a cocky guy, but this dude isn't even close to me in looks or nature. He wouldn't stand a chance at even speaking to someone like my "friend".
Event number happened within moments of that. My "friend" went to the bathroom with one of the other women and came back to tell me that "we were making waves" (relatively small town we live in). One of her old friends (woman) stopped her, asked her if she was with me, then told her that I was a "great guy". She pointed her out and I had absolutely no clue who she was. Later, the "old friend" came over for an intro and I asked her how she knew me. She said that she was "sort of" friends with my X. Within a few minutes, the three other women that the "old friend" was with came over to our table to join in. They were all carrying on, asking if I was really Christine's X, and pretty much saying that I should have divorced her years ago. I just smiled and nodded when appropriate, I didn't want the convo to go on any longer than it needed to.
Throughout my Sep and even after the D I always tried to flow pretty low under the radar because I didn't like encounters like this. I want to be my own guy, not the X of my X-wife!
Both were fogotten soon after they happened... Which is a GREAT thing!
fantastic - I'd say that's doing good