Number 72...
Logbook - Captains' Journal
Astro date, August 2078
Me and H celebrated our 107 birthday today. Thank God for Alzheimer, some days I forget about his infidelity. When he remembers my name he asks what else he can do to be forgiven. That's when I usually get really mad at him and tell him I want out of this M and want to start over wth someone new that loves and appreciates me... Life is ahead of me and dont want to waste it. I dont want to settle!! 
Sunshine
Funny post Maria. Except your hubby is born in June and you in March I believe...
That is the question, what he can do to be forgiven? Only you have the answer...obviously you have forgiven him partially because you have accepted him back.
Life is now Maria. You can plan and dream about the future and soemtimes remenisce about the past but LIFE IS NOW. Enjoy it! Embrace it! Wear some sexy underwear and don't sweat what you can't change!
At age 107, months dont matter anymore John....
Last night I had a dream my dad died. I went through the whole thing, my mom collapsing, my kids being sad, arranging for the burial, all the intense feelings that follow a death of a loved one. My dream stopped when we were at the cemetary. We say when we see death it means life for the person we see dying. I hope so....
K
How about sexy underwear? Does that matter at 107???
I have had similiar dreams and woken up crying so hard. Nothing has happened to either of my parents so I hope that is true as well.
John is right you know. Life is here and now. I get caught up in things too and forget to enjoy the now, the today. It is really the only time that you know you have. Please make the most of it.
hugs, kat
Number 72...
Logbook - Captains' Journal
Astro date, August 2078
Me and H celebrated our 107 birthday today. Thank God for Alzheimer, some days I forget about his infidelity. When he remembers my name he asks what else he can do to be forgiven. That's when I usually get really mad at him and tell him I want out of this M and want to start over wth someone new that loves and appreciates me... Life is ahead of me and dont want to waste it. I dont want to settle!! Sunshine
If I'm still dealing with these types of issues at 107 someone please shoot me
It's uncanny how real dreams can be sometimes though. Some I wake up from and feel relieved it was just a dream - others I just want to go back to sleep and live in it!
If I'm still dealing with these types of issues at 107 someone please shoot me
It's uncanny how real dreams can be sometimes though. Some I wake up from and feel relieved it was just a dream - others I just want to go back to sleep and live in it!
BA, that's exactly what I wrote on here 2 years ago talking about the possibility of being still here 2 years later as some of the vets back then told me.... Look where I am at?
... [I] get really mad at him and tell him I want out of this M and want to start over wth someone new that loves and appreciates me... Life is ahead of me and dont want to waste it. I dont want to settle!! ...
This is the sort of knee-jerk reaction and threats that's probably very hurtful to him and could drive him to say or do something hurtful back, even to infidelity again (at 107!).
In all likelihood if you are patient then wisdom and forgiveness will come to you one day at a time or perhaps suddenly. Perhaps as a result of some life-changing event where you get to see his better side. (Perhaps he'll be good with the great great grand kids)
You are at war, keep up the fight!
fb2, at age 107 he will be free to cheat on me!! LOL
"fb2, at age 107 he will be free to cheat on me!! LOL"
That's what you say now. When you are a crabby old bat it could be a different story!
Kalni -
Honey, I think the issue right now is not that he cheated on you. You knew all that and still chose to reconcile with him, I think you had plenty of time to process that wound.
I think the issue is you suspect him of not being totally straight about his dealings now - of flirting with that woman from work, and who knows what else? You're afraid he's not behaving the way you would expect him to if he was truly remorseful.
Ellie
"Last night I had a dream my dad died. I went through the whole thing, my mom collapsing, my kids being sad, arranging for the burial, all the intense feelings that follow a death of a loved one. My dream stopped when we were at the cemetary. We say when we see death it means life for the person we see dying. I hope so...."
Death in a dream.. has very little meaning. Typically it is the "actions" around the "death" that have meaning. Dreams.. relate to a frame of mind. For a long time now you have been centered on the "Work". So.. why would you dream about work?
I know I have not been posting much.. it has just been a crazy time in my life right now. But.. that does not excuse me.
Who are you Mrs. Maria? What makes you important?
Even your dreams make you stand out with what you inferred.
What are your plans? What are your wants? What are your needs?
Why do you need to prove yourself?
"at age 107 he will be free to cheat on me!! LOL"
No.. at that age he should be smart enough to know that is not what you do.
Encourage him "smartly" to want to be there then.
Hey sweets... I saw on your old post you said it was good news about your Dad? At least better than you feared right? Brilliant, I am so glad. You're Dad sure is a cat with 9 lives huh!
Well not much changes for me either... do you remember what life was like before the bomb (and that May-September period pre-bomb?) that life had its ups and downs, sure, but it really wasnt so devastating/dramatic/desperately not knowing which way this ship was sailing. I feel that life has gone back now to before that 2 year period, its just this and that and stuff, but less Drama.
Is that how you feel? That ok, you are reconciled, you tick along but.. thats it? But then maybe no drama is a good thing. As others say, if you live in the now, its still pretty extrodinary after all your fears of what could happen, that you are back as a family and your Dad is battling on. Funny star log btw!
Love and hugs xxx
I dont want drama. I want EMOTIONS. I want to be content, I want to be able to enjoy the ride, I dont want to be alone or lonely. I dont need anyone, that's clear now, but I CHOOSE for myself to be with that someone that will be on my side against...whatever.
Apart from other things,we are coming to a gridlock as Schnarch says. His free time is ridiculous. I havent "seen" him since Sunday noon and it is Thursday. I am living as single again and although that is nothing new, I have decided it is not for me. He sees it too. I expect him to either avoid it once more or deal with it. It would mean we -together as a couple- make plans, arrangements, financial planning, evaluate options, compromise. I am not pushing things, waiting for vacation time to come. BUT, I faced my dillemma and I have made my decisions. I am ready. I hope he is too.
As it is my favourite thing to do, I wrote him a letter explaining what I feel is missing still and what holds me back. I talked about 2 things and tried to explain those. His reply was per SMS: "Maria I love you and you have nothing to worry about". OK, now, lets deal with those things...? Imagine, we dont have time to talk, let alone analyse situations etc.
For the record, I think she contacted him. I think he will tell me when we see each other this weekend. Lets see if my little voice is right again.
K
It sounds like you are trying to be solution oriented. You have figured out the problem, time together, and you want to sit down to figure out how to fix it. I think that is great. It is good you communicated to him what you want and need. I hope he responds by helping to come up with a solution and I really hope that your gut is wrong about her contacting him...that would just not be good.
Actually awest, I think it would be good if she did. I would love to think of her begging
and asking and hearing we are still together a year later and as my H says, that he loves me and knows where he wants to be...
It would be bad if he doesnt tell me and of course if there is a follow up of some kind. I dont believe that a R ends, a R so strong and passionate like theirs, just like "that". "That" alone, freaks me out and I think it is part of the "protect Maria" attitude he has overall that I HATE.
K
That is true...if H does tell her she is done and he wants nothing to do with her...that would be good.
He actually wrote that he loved you, granted not the same as hearing it but he said it. Hmmmmmm.
kat
ok I bite, how do you know that she contacted him????
Don't want to question your behaviour / attitude because you have every right to be carefull.....but I understand why he wants to "protect" Maria. Pardon me for making this comparison....if i get heat everytime I go golfing from my wife, why should I tell her if I sneek away? It is only going to result in an argument and I went during my workday so why should it matter to her???? You see what I am saying....he is protecting you, himself and the relationship. Sorry that is how we men think...
That's great that he said he loves you!
Great that he's trying to be reassuring. So good that he acknowledged that he read your e-mail and heard you even if he hasn't figured out how to take action yet.
I repeat with what John said - What evidence do you have that she contacted him?
What other employment options are there for your H that would have a regular schedule?
Does he like his work?
Do you feel that if the amount of time together were to increase drastically, that your marriage happiness would be satisfied?
What if the two of you created a family business together?
Hey Maria,
Why can you not believe that "a R ends, a R so strong and passionate like theirs, just like "that". " ???
Thats EXACTLY how R's like that end !!! Its a 'false' love, so it often ends just like that and is done.
- Remember Gra and Cher? Wow, he was like obsessed with her for 2 years..he has now ended it and they both told us, they literally never want contact ever again with one another.
- My OM.. passion? We felt like we wanted to climb inside each others skin!...he stopped contact dead with me. I never heard from him again and I can only assume he is very relieved about that.
- My ex who I thought I loved..once it was done, I felt if I never saw him again, it would be too soon. He once turned up at my house 2am banging the doors.. I called the Police and left via the back door.
- I had to drop H at Helen's office this morning (euggh!) I asked him if he was nervous of seeing her, he said, do you know what? No, not at all, I couldnt care less anymore.
You drive yourself mad making things up in your mind. Maybe just learn to 'blow off' these negative thoughts, or look at the facts. HE ended it. That was a long time ago. He's told you he's done and that he loves you. What happened about the voice recorder?
As for the part-time relationship you are in with him, I totally agree, you cant go on like that. I really feel for you every time you post about it. My LL is quality time, I literally couldnt bare to not see H Sun-Thu, I would find that incredibly depressing and hurtful over a period of a few weeks, neverlone if that were a permanent arrangement. It must be awful for you, so yes, stick to your guns.. I hope he takes you seriously this time sweets. You cant go on like that, its no way to live huh...
xxx
Sorry, I meant to add, if this is how you feel its how you feel, of course. But is it really doing you any good to keep focusing on it? Whether she contacts him or not (she may) its done, I dont see that as the issue anymore, or threat to your R. The threat seems to be from lack of QT together, the fact that makes it harder to really trust him (?) and his inability to take you seriously when you tell him that you cant go on like this and he has to change something. Perhaps he feels so secure with you and how you have stuck by him this past 13/14 years that he thinks no matter what he does, you will always be there....
xxx
Hey Ali,
I think you hit the nail on the head. Let's face it, after having been discovered and let back in, I am sure there is a feeling of security on his part. Not outwardly or cocky but it has to be in his subconscious somewhere.
There is also another "danger" that I sense; the boy who cried wolf syndrome. How many times can you tell someone that the status quo as it pertains to quality time is not working before he simply brushes it off as background noise. I know I am not offering solutions here. Just trying to put myself in his shoes ....
As far as Maria's concern about ending what she describes as a passionate relationship cold turkey, I tend to agree with her. In my opinion something as passionate if not more has to replace it.....only K knows if he is living that with her. From what is described here, it is not the case. I have a hunch however that K puts a negative spin on things regarding hubby here (and in her real life) for self preservation purposes and honestly who could blame her.
I can understand being cautious but not being negative. You get back what you put out there. Ever notice how bad things seem to happen to the negative guy/gal over and over again? Somehow when you have a more positive way of looking at things, the bad things just don't seem so bad. Stuff happens, roll with it, fix it and get back to thinking good stuff.
Got a case of the sun in Leo!! lol
hugs, kat
Love Kat's post!
The warm sunny days must be putting the sun in Libra too LOL.
Well, the sun here didnt help much today. I am done with accepting the way he wants us to handle it: forget it. I told him so, he asked if I am OK. I may be bipolar who the f@ck knows?
I am mad at him for all the things he did.
I am mad because he isnt taking care of me, he tries to avoid trouble. I am mad becasue I see nothing of all the things he gave to her happening to me/us.
I am mad I am supposed to be a better person, take the high road etc etc. I want to be a bitch, I want to scream and shout, hit and kick him, I want to pour ALL this pain out of my chest and unload it on him, make him see it, force him to face it. I cant find love in my heart. I wish..., I wish I was nemo's friend with no memory.
I am mad all the things he does do, cant stop my heart from bleeding. I keep expecting to feel relief and I dont no matter what he does. I think this is a lost battle.
I am PMSing
K
He answered questions. He got her pregnant by just...risking it because of the passion. WHAT IS HAPENNING TO THEIR BRAINS???????????????????????????????????
Oh and his best friend, our best man, the guys I've spent years with on vacation, etc etc knew this even before he had moved out. JERK!!
Sorry to hear you are having a bad day. Anger can cause you to feel like you are crazy.
It will pass (especially if it is just PMS).
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else - you are the one who gets burned.
likewise...
Speak when you are angry - and you'll make the best speech you'll ever regret.
Dont you have vacation coming up soon?
"I have a hunch however that K puts a negative spin on things regarding hubby here (and in her real life) for self preservation purposes and honestly who could blame her."
Very perceptive John.
K, your expectations of him are yours alone; at least not his. And I think that's probably true in any R. You can say things a million times and the other person does not get it. MWD says couples continue to fight about the same old things all their life. If the quality time means so much to you communicate that in the best way possible (please, not with negative emotions of anger) and get a solution in place soon or it will continue to eat into you; infidelity of course cannot be tolerated; live with (forgive?) the rest. PMS is understandable but how is a man to know what to take seriously during these volcanic emotional eruptions?
I think we have turmed a corner. After him asnwering nearly all of my 37 questions (didnt remember them all to ask), I got upset and mad. PMSing and THAT was not a good combination. But, very quickly, overnight, I felt better. I wasnt mad at him, I felt closer to him. Funny huh?
Anyway, the truth is that what I did learn just confirmed the "vanity" of his affair but also the intensity and the craziness. According to him which is also what I had read, the affair started in August 2006 and by summer 2008 he wanted out. A little less of 2 years but less than a year after he left our home and M. So, secrecy did fuel the damn affair in my case as well.
He also said that although he knew he wanted me and our family and felt he loved me deeply, the fact that I found out actually made the final detachement from her faster and more drastic. He said when he told her I knew details but was pretty calm about it (ONLY the first night, LOL) she replied that "of course I were, I knew it all along". I cant explain it but she put me down a bit and from what he sounded he didnt like it that she questioned my "pain"? Hard to explain.
Anyway, still ways to go but he seemed to be shocked by my honest explanation about how humiliated I feel, how hurt and how sometimes I feel I am discounting my values by staying with him: I was taught to NOT allow others to mistreat me or disrespect me. He kept on about how HE feels humiliated, HE is the laughing stock of all our friends and family, HE feels he f@cked up royally etc. And I agreed (
). Only, that, that doesnt mean I dont feel the same way also but for different reasons.
I really need to go on vacation and I am struggling to come to work every day. 2 weeks wont be enough...
K
Glad you got that out. I think it will help you to move on. And you need to move on. Are you still making those beautiful beaded necklaces?
Only for friends... My daily life is so full right now, trying to entertain the kids etc in the afternoons-evenings that I really cant be staying up till 3-4 in the morning to manage to be productive.
Sorry about your dad, hope he heals fast. Good luck with surgery...
K
Glad you had a turning point. I know he doesn't want to keep "picking at the wound" but you have to get the "poison" out so to speak. When my ex had his first affair he didn't want to talk about it and things in our lives were moving so quickly, I let it go or so I thought.
The betrayal came up in little ways over the years. I was so busy with the kids, it still never was discussed much. So it came back and bit us in the rear. So even though it is painful , get to the bottom of it. Just don't keep at it once you have your answers or neither of you will be able to heal.
hugs, kat
Well, sounds like a good convo! Glad he answered your questions and said he loved you again!
Sounds like some of what you have been trying to communicate is reaching him now.
Vacations are always too far away and never long enough!
Hey K, seems you got something positive out of this latest crisis? Well done for demanding that he answer.. I thought it interesting that he did answer all your questions whereas he wouldnt before, but more time has gone by, you have been reconciled for longer, it may be easier/safer for him to answer now?
I liked this bit.."although he knew he wanted me and our family and felt he loved me deeply, the fact that I found out actually made the final detachement from her faster and more drastic." .. how lovely to hear that even during the A and before he detached from her he still knew that he loved you "deeply". I hope that was validating for you to hear that? Yes A's are crazy, they kidnap your brain, IMH experience!
The bit about discounting your values... I dont know, I guess thats where that phrase comes from "all's fair in love and war" - you accept in those situations people WILL hurt you, harm you and do dreadful things. Thats where the forgiveness comes in hey.
And when he said "He kept on about how HE feels humiliated, HE is the laughing stock of all our friends and family, HE feels he f@cked up royally etc." thats textbook hey for these WAS who make bad choices, have A's and then royally regret it. Again, I hope it was validating for you to hear that and for him to be so honest.
"although he knew he wanted me and our family and felt he loved me deeply, the fact that I found out actually made the final detachement from her faster and more drastic."
"He kept on about how HE feels humiliated, HE is the laughing stock of all our friends and family, HE feels he f@cked up royally etc."
So why did he do it then? Thought he could lie and cheat and won't get caught with a mistress on the side? Is that why he feels humiliated now? You were fooled for the better part of a year thinking there's no OW!? It would be easier to hear from him that he deeply regrets the suffering he caused you and others around you and asks for forgiveness. Apart from the sad feeling that he supposedly "loved" the OW, restoring trust here seems to be the hardest battle! There will be that long lingering doubt somewhere at the back of your mind. That said you still have to wait for forgiveness to come to you.
Why he did it? He was in love with her fb2, Crazy for her. Sold us ALL out beause of his feelings for her. Those feelings were intense, just didnt last long enough for him to completely detach from me. The timing was good for me, better for his own good. A few months later, it would have been too late...
He didnt feel he had any other choice. Later, he was trying to get away with it and not get caught since he had gotten away until that moment... No excuses. None whatsoever, he f@cked up more than I could ever imagine. Does he deserve my forgiveness? Maybe, maybe not. I am very cautious and allow myself "small positive steps" forward...
K
His surpise for me today was a flat TV for our bedroom and a Blue ray video. He had gotten a monitor instead of a Tv and I had to go to the shop... Poor man. Electronics anyone? It must be a new Love Language or something...Some habbits die hard
Kalni,
I have to be honest and say I do not know your whole sitch. But let me tell you that some of what you are saying is the little voice that comes in my head too. But unfortunately there are questions we both have that will have to wait.
My W I believe. (And this is NO excuse for what she did) was and is going through a MLC/ Menopause/ and low self esteem issues. That is what I believe drove her to make that unwise, not thinking choice.
Today she is a different person. She still has her esteem issues and I think a little MLC left in her. BUT three years ago I would have NEVER expected her to be back in our bedroom.
It may not seem fast enough (I know how you feel) that our spouses are making this return trip from LA LA land.. But they are coming back… look at the positives … I don’t think this is very easy for them.
Even though WE think it would be easy.
"His surprise for me today was a flat TV for our bedroom and a Blue ray video. He had gotten a monitor instead of a Tv and I had to go to the shop... Poor man. Electronics anyone? It must be a new Love Language or something...Some habbits die hard frown"
You are funny! Yes, he speaks "electronics" but sometimes the words come out garbled. At least he's showing his love in the best way he knows ;-) I remember one year a long time ago I bought my W a big TV (not flat but quite bulging in those days) out of the goodness of my heart - and I also wrapped the big bulging think up and all I got was angry ingratitude; so next year I got diamond earrings - same result. So remember to thank the "poor man" and drop very gentle hints later for what you really want!
fb2, 3 days ago we were window shopping and I showed him a ...purse (told you some habbits die hard). I said "get it for me my love", with a giigle, he said "sure, do you really like it?"... Yetsreday he said" "I was going to get you the purse as well but the store was closed". LOL... whatever.
Dr. Love, what you are saying about being hard for them too: I am having difficulty finding so much compassion for my H to where I would feel at ease with what he does and not want more. Somehow, in my head, compassion is one thing and getting a free pass is another. If those WAS that return dont man up or woman up at some point, it will not work out. A R cant be running on one spouses' fuels for ever. As long as there is progress,it is good. But progress because of their doings as well. Not because we again give our 150%... Do I make any sense?
YES you make perfect sense and I totally understand where you are coming from.
I too feel that I have given 150% more that most husbands would have given. (Of course there are some here that I can't compare too) but......
Just like I cannot really tell you what to do or what I would do if I was in your situation BECASUE I am NOT YOU. I have not experienced you what you have in life. Each of us has our own baggage that we carry around. We can’t really say what our spouses should do or what we would do if we were them. First of all I would NOT have been in their situations in the first place. Not that I have not had the opportunity... I just made a better judgment call at the time.
With my first wife... Well she became hooked on drugs without my knowledge (cocaine). One day she just took off and left me with a three month old baby girl and a three year old toddler. AND I let her go. I raised my girls by myself until I met my current wife. I still wonder to this day what life would have been like if I had perused my EX. If I would have put half the effort I put into this marriage to try to get her help instead of just let her crash and destroy her life last I heard she is living in the street somewhere up north.
Unfortunately some of us I think were put on this earth to be the helpers of others. If we all were as good as you and I then there would be no need for marriage councilors or police or judges or Wars for that matter.
YES THEY DO NEED TO “MAN OR WOMAN UP”… and I believe it will happen someday. They know what they did. And as much as we want to hear them say it… is it really for their good or ours?
What part of DBing taught me was how “needy” I really was. How really UN attractive that can be. I wanted to hear praise from my wife... I needed to “Hear” it… But then after DBing for awhile I realized sometimes we can hear things without our ears…My dad was a great example... he was “Old school” you know “Men are Men”…and this was great .. But I do not think he EVER told me he loved me. But you know what? I know he did. He didn’t have to say it.
So I guess what I am trying to say is that I think my wife…your husband are sorry for what they did. They know how they hurt us...and it shows by things they are doing now for us. AND hopefully someday we will get what we want to hear. To hear them tell us they are sorry…but… do WE really need that to move on? Or is that just icing on the cake?
BTW do not allow this post to make you think I am totally with it or am happy about this… I struggle with this every day too...
Hey K..so what are your vacation plans with H and the kids and when you going away? Wow, will you get 2 whole weeks together? Are you and H still doing that special Santorini weekend as well??
Me and H (lol!) are hoping to come back to Greece early October, but we're not sure whether to fly to Athens, Thessoloniki or Santorini. We want to go back to Naxos as it was so beautiful and relaxing, but there are so many places still to see, we think we ought to try a different island or the mainland around Thessoloniki maybe. Lucky you living there and having it all on your doorstep!
Hugs Al xxx
Morning Al,
need to chat soon...
Leaving on August 12th and coming back to Athens on the 26th. We leave Athens again just for a night on Sat 28th to go to a party of a good friend of mine on an island near by (no kids)... Santorini we go on 16-19. I confirmed the reservation yesterday.
Naxos in October will be ...dead and probably windy. I would go to Thessaloniki to see that part of Greece this time.
Today it is a year exactly I found out about his A. That I found out details about his A including pics and letters etc etc. I looked at my thread of that day and all the feelings I felt came back. But I can handle them now. I just wonder, is it a good thing that I let go all that resentment (or most of it)?
Last night it was the day we met 14 years ago. Funny how these dates are so close. I was thinking whether I will ever be able to live and love him with no shadow, no clouds over my heart. I dont know yet if it is possible. It's a sad thing to think that I will alwyas be like "this". No one should have to deal with betrayal. It leaves scars that define your ability to enjoy love.
I was thinking what would I do if I could relive that night 14 years ago knowing what happened later on. I dont know if I would want to relive it. I think I would probably never have answered to his call the first time.
K
Rough anniversaries.
My anniversary was last weekend. I worked my butt off around the house so I didn't have time to dwell on it.
I think subconsciously I have been though. I have been down all week, crying over little things. My friend's 10th anniversary was just a few days before, and then today my xSIL and her BF announced their engagement (he actually asked her on Friday). Then I'm going to a friend's wedding in a couple weeks.
I am so jaded about M now though. Yet I'm jealous of everyone who's made it work.
It is good for you to let go of the resentment. It's a heavy burden to bear. The only person resentment hurts is you. It holds you back. Your H feels guilty on his own, w/o the resentment.
Have fun on your vacations. That'll be so nice for you guys to have some family and couples time.
4 days to vacation...
I cant wait.
(((((((Maria)))))))
Thanks Jeff ... 3 more busy days and then we are off to the beach.
I had a very difficult moment with my son last week. His cousin whome he adores, has been a bit hostile. He is usually a sweet boy but his parents' divorce, which he hides from people just like my son did, has affected him deeply. Imagine his parents havent spoken to each other since the day his dad moved out, his mom is constantly putting him down and is proudly calling herself a cougar(she is out of control, MLC at its worst), leaving her son (the youngest one 11yrs old) with her dad, my FiL. His dad keeps in contact as much as he can but he has told me the kid has told him he feels obliged to keep his grandparent company, which is the way/the excuse his mom uses to send him off everyday so that she can go out... (with a man the age of her oldest son, 20yrs old I think)
Anyway, my son got hurt by something his cousin told him and wanted to know how come his cousin has changed so much. I thought I should tell him what is going on and did. In the context of "he is having a hard time, be patient, dont take it personally" etc etc.
He wanted to know details and then he started sobbing uncontrollably. I tried to soothe him and asked him what he felt. He told me he was thinking of something that happened a long time ago "that is corected now and it shouldnt bother him". I asked if it was our separation and he said it was the day his father left. He told me "mommy, when I think of that day, I FEEL the rage and the grief, the desperation I felt when I was crying on the floor and dad wouldnt stay, how could he do this to me, how did he leave me when I was hurting?". Sadly, me and my son hurt with the same question... He asked me if I remembered. I told him I do and that it was very painful for me too but we are all now trying to look forward. He kept asking the same question. I told him he should discuss this with his dad, I didnt know the answer except that his dad felt he had no other choice.
His comment was :if I felt that way, I imagine how my cousin feels now, his parents had been longer together than you and dad", trying to understand and compare the pain (!!!). After that he was very sweet with his cousin.
I told H in a very nice way. His eyes filled with tears. I could see his pain/guilt. I suggested he gives our son the opportunity to discuss about it and prepare an answer that will make sense to him, at least till he is older to learn about the OW.
As far as I am concerned, as much as I want to be braver, I realised I would put up with a lot of things now, just to save my son from a similar situation again. Thankfully H seems to be returning 100% to us, for how long I cant tell. I was talking to my gf about this and she suggested some kind of ritual, just among the 4 of us, to give the kids back a sense of safety and stability. Or at least a symbolic gesture that they can remember as the end of a bad era. I will talk to H about it and see what he feels about it.
Spent a lot of time with dad last weekend. The more I did, the sweeter he became with me. I felt he was more calm when we were together.
K
Hey K... wow, poor N, he kept that bottled up hey. Its a good thing that this sitch with his cousin and your SIL bought it out into the open and I think you gave him a good answer with vague details and brilliant that you said his Dad would discuss it with him.
I am glad to hear that H teared up and that you feel he is now back with you 100%. I continue to be SO happy for you that you got your H and family back, despite that its been a long, rocky, painful road to get here. A ritual, or ceremony sounds like a great idea! You could maybe exchange 'forever' gifts. Hey, maybe even renew those vows!!?
xxx
It is amazing how much children are hurt by this and the WAS does not seem to realize it. Kids really internalize a lot.
Glad they are able to talk because it is hard for the kids to trust as well as you, and you may feel better knowing that your kids are more trusting as well.
Hope the next few days fly by so you can get on vacation!
kalni,
As far as I am concerned, as much as I want to be braver, I realised I would put up with a lot of things now, just to save my son from a similar situation again. Thankfully H seems to be returning 100% to us, for how long I cant tell. I was talking to my gf about this and she suggested some kind of ritual, just among the 4 of us, to give the kids back a sense of safety and stability. Or at least a symbolic gesture that they can remember as the end of a bad era. I will talk to H about it and see what he feels about it.
That was why my H and I renewed our vows. We only made it a small thing - H, myself and the children. It had great healing powers and seemed to give the children more stability. Doing it in church though, in front of God, was the right place to do it for us.
Hi girls,
my books arrived yesterday. Among others the new by Schnarch, Intimacy and Desire. I apsolutely LOVE his concept. His "logic" appeals to me, it makes sense. And it helps me too at this stage.
I also got from Abandoment to Healing which is a book a lot of people suggested. I got one about my mom:Rs between daughters and mothersit's type of book, an area I want to work at before it is too late. I am watching her deteriorate and it's sad to realise she is no superwoman as I always thought she was. I think my mom will collapse if she will lose my dad. Hopefully not for many years to come. Unfortunately, it looks like it will be a lot sooner. I also got the 4 principles...
H is leaving today and coming back tomorrow night. One more day at work and we are gone!!! Last night he had the day off from the newspaper and he took us out for Mexican. Like a family date. It was warm and nice. I wore a dress and high heel sandals and when he came to pick us up, he didnt say one word. Not the whole evening either, makes me sad how I am not a woman in his eyes. It is a serious blow for my ego and self confidence. Need to deal with that as well.
Maybe I need to become a slut so that he notices
K
Have a great vacation K...you deserve it. Try to incorporate some non healing / self help reading .... moderation grasshopper.
By the way your slut remark reminded me of a quote I once heard from one of Mick Jagger's ex wives:
<<My mother said it was simple to keep a man, you must be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom. I said I'd hire the other two and take care of the bedroom bit.>>
Jerry Hall
Ave Maria! Amazing your son can express such feelings. Have you considered that rather than not seeing you "as a woman" you H doesn't see himself "as a man" yet and maybe you have the key to this? This trip may be a good change to re-connect more, be a slut and who knows what else. I'm really not sure those self-help books have all the correct answers. But looks like its all coming together for you anyway. All the best!
Hey Maria, I wanted to call you before you went away to catch up and wish you well on your hols.. but seems you are away from..tonight?? I hope you have some healing time together..
Anyway, I agree with FB2. Wierdly, the thing that worked for me in the early days (and your R seems to have been on a go slow drip drip drip of improvements so..) was to actually shower HIM with s*xual energy and affection. Logically it felt HE should be doing that to me, to win me back, pay me attention/compliments, but I did the reverse.. in the early days it was me making all the effort with the fancy underwear, telling him how handsome he was and initiating s*x and kissing him awake etc. It restored our s*xual R very quickly so we gelled again as a couple and then the rest, as they say, is history.
It sounds counterintuitive right, but it worked. I dont know if that helps at all, or this.. dont be afraid, unconfident, dont give in to doubts and insecurities you feel when he doesnt notice your pretty dress, or listen to the negative voice that says he doesnt see you as a woman...
He does notice, he just doesnt show it, trust me.
Hugs, miss you! xxxx
Hope you are having a wonderful vacation!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Kalni,
Just dropping by. Hope you are having a great holiday!
Checking in on you, sis. Hope your travels are going well.
Me too! It's like the whole gang is here!
Yes Jeff true and lille'ole me is here too! Although we're a Lisa short of a full set.
K, I have been thinking about you and hoping your time together is going.. well? xx
Yes... we are short a Lisa! I have a feeling she is doing great, but I miss her!
You ought to change your sig, Ali!
I know, I can't remember the last time Lisa came by to say hi! I miss her lots!
You guys know I'm a bonehead so please remind me.....how long was this vacation of K's????
All I know is...it is longer than any vacation I am going to get at any one time!!
kat
That's for sure! I'm lucky to get 1-2 days at a time! Of course, I can't afford to go anywhere and these darned stay at home and do extra housework vacations SUCK!
Hi friends,
came back home yestreday afte a long 10 hours trip. Overall it was good. Had someminor issues but it was good. Leaving in the morning for a 24 hour trip just the 2 of us to a party out of town.
I will post more on Monday, from...work.
M
Yes! You are here! Have fun on the adults-only adventure.
I've missed you but glad it sounds as if things went fairly well. Have a fun weekend.
kat
Missed you sweetie! Glad you had a good time. Have a blast just the two of you!!!!!!! So jealous!
Can't wait to hear about all your adventures.
So how was the weekend? Back yet?
Glad you had a good time overall!
Hope the adults only weekend was good!
Kalni - can you check in Carlota? She could use some of your first-hand experience...
Donna, I will check on her, not sure I can be of any help but will try...
Hi girls, yes the weekend is over and went Ok and I am back at work since yesterday, it sucks! Budget season but thank God I am not in my old position where that would be my main responsibility. At my new position I am GIVING feedback instead of expecting it...
I think during vacation we went "up a level". We got closer, we talked about things that he has previously said he wasnt interested in. I shared with him some of me deepest thoughts and feelings and tried to make him see the complete picture. I think he actually understands better now. I would be crying and he would come to me instead of run and hide. Dont think we spent the vacation talking about hurtfull things, just a couple of times because I had relapses (?) and thoughts that bothered me.
I think I managed to speak without worrying about his reactions, without trying to make me lovable, without being anxious. Just plain raw hurt and disbelief that has been torturing me, sometimes without even connecting it to him and his actions.
We had fun, we were reminded why we fell for each other several times because we have the same response-reactions-oppinion about things and people.
At one point again, he said he doesnt even know how the hell he made the choices he made.
Yesterday he said he misses being together with me and the kisses and wants to discuss for ways to have some more time together this winter.
In a couple of weeks we have the 3 days away on Santorini. I hope we make it because my dad is getting worse and worse and my mom cant take care of the kids. My babysitter said she will help out, I am counting on her.
Friday is the U2 concert!
K
Sounds like it was great! Exactly what you needed, a time away to just re-establish some good foundation. It all sounds so good and I am really happy for you!
Sounds like you guys are reconnecting. That is great! Enjoy U2...
I don't get to see U2 until next June! LOL
Have a great time.
Glad to see all the positives!
So glad he wants to take time to be with you! That's such progress!
Sounds wonderful Maria!
Enjoy U2! They are truly the BEST!
Looks like you are doing a lot better.
"I would be crying and he would come to me instead of run and hide."
So what brought about this change or new ability to handle a flood of emotion from you?
Hey K, that all sounds brilliant and has improved things yet again in your R! I think this bit says it all:
"At one point again, he said he doesnt even know how the hell he made the choices he made."
In my own sitch, thats exactly how H sums it up too. Maybe thats true of all returning WAS. Its hard to accept that they could be so dumb and not mindful enough to be in the now and make the right choices back then, or even know why they made them, but seems that is just how it is!
I hope you get to Santorini as I bet that will be another thing to put the icing on this reconciliation and take it to another level as you put it...but what a shame sweets about your dad. Sounds like he is battling on, but that its taking its toll.
Hugs xxx
This sounds really great and it seems like you yourself have moved forward in the relationship from where you were a month or so ago. I hope you both continue to build on this - your marriage is becoming more solid and that has to give you a greater since of confidence in it and in him.
Best,
BA
Thanks guys.
Questions & thoughts
Dealing with a WAS with an affair, is IMHO, much much harder that dealing with a spouse that goes through a phase. I would find it very romantic if our love survived "a phase" and proof of its strength. Right now, I see what is happening as a "settlement" that suits all parties (except OW) since the betrayal was of all levels, mental, physical, sexual... What is considered the biggest "fear" of lovers when they get together?
So, my H had fun, took a break for 2,5 years from me and our family, enjoyed a crazy love, risked everything and now he is...back and everything is "fine". Somehow that feels... not right.
How can anyone tell if an affair lowered the "moral personal boundaries" of the cheating spouse or in the best case, raised them. In the first case, another affair is very probable down the road, in the second, the affair itself can become the reminder/warning of what NOT to do again.
Accepting a cheating spouse back, demands a huge amount of strength and self validation power. In my case, it also involves a fair share of detachement. Coupled with the self defense mechanism that developed after the bomb it means that there is always a ...gap between us, a gap preserved mostly by me. Is this a different kind of love or just the only kind of love (settling) possible after an affair (for me at least). Is this IT or is there room for healthy development? Is there more to expect (from myself AND him?) Intimacy is the last thing that returns and very hard to regain.
I question myself daily about my "giving", if it too MUCH, if it is being a doormat, if it gives him the wrong message (close call but you got away with it). So far, I have realised that if I dont give, we stand no chance. How much and when (timing)I am not sure of.
Trust... well after being completely, apsolutely convinced of my husbands integrity for years and finding out he wasnt honest with me, everytime I catch myself believing him without any second thoughts, I feel I make the same mistakes... I feel naive. I hate feeling naive.
I realised, a cheating spouse can not understand what he put the other person through, unless he/she has a similar experience...
Fighting pride has been difficult, sometimes I wonder if it means compromising my dignity. Hard pill to swallow (spelling?)
The anger is not visiting me as often but it still is intense when it does show up. It lasts less though.
At the end of the day, the glass was broken. And it seems it takes a long long time to become something stronger that I dont "question/doubt", something worth the hurt and tears.
Why do we want someone back that has lied, cheated, disrespected, betrayed, hurt us and our families? I will never understand that. People do make mistakes but some mistakes are bigger than others. I dont know what I would advise my daughter to do in my shoes. I dont have reasons now to believe I made the wrong decision but I think I would not advise her to make the same...
Why do we want someone back that has lied, cheated, disrespected, betrayed, hurt us and our families? I will never understand that.
K, if you ever figure that out, I'd love to hear your answer!
I have all those same thoughts and questions. Wish I had some answers too. Sigh.
I'm glad that you seem to be working your way through it, however long it may take.
I think it simply because you loved him. You wanted to keep your family togehter if possible. You can't rebuild the marriage you had but get to build a new one and this time around there won't be cracks in the foundation.
Glad you had a good time.
hugs, kat
Well, I didn't have to deal with an A, or with a reconciliation, so I am an expert!
I think the key to being successful might be to think of the past A marriage as a "new" marriage. Don't try to think of it as a continuation of what went before, with a break in between. If you think of it as "new", then what happened in that intervening time might be less important to you, it was "before" you were married.
Will that work? I don't know! But I can see a little logic in it.
And....
(((((((((Kalni)))))))))
Going to to talking with a woman from Match on the phone tonight... she is from......... Greece!
Hmm. I think part of the reason you are inclined to take them back is that history though.
I know if I was just dating someone and found out they had cheated on former spouses/significant others that I would take that as a huge warning sign and break things off.
But when you have that history, when you know that for years they were faithful, that they are capable of being faithful, it makes reconciliation feel possible. A lot of work, but possible.
Yeah, it is a double edged sword. I do think it takes a special person to take them back, in any case. Clearly, somehow, you have to be able to put the A in the past. Just as clearly, it never goes away.
A magic wand, perhaps?
I'd like to order some selective memory loss please!
Just need the widget from "Men in Black"!
K - I don't think for you it is just that H had an A. I truly believe that if a spouse has an A that it is possible to reconcile, but what I feel is hard about your situation (and what I admire most about you for reconciling) is that he did come home and did "reconcile" for a while just to find out he was still with her. To me, that is what is hardest to get over. Having an A, is hard enough to get over, but I really think the fact that you did trust him and he flat out hurt that trust is the hard part.
I completely believe that it is possible for you to have a great marriage and agree you have to build a new foundation and not just try to fix the old, but it is going to take a long time because there is so much more to this than just an A (like I said which is hard enough), but to have the trust rebuilt when you tried before just to have it thrown back at you that is the hardest part.
You are really an inspiration for continuing to work it out and stick with it. You could have said forget it to him when he wanted to work things out, but you decided to take him back, and that in itself is something to honor.
Hey K, I understand what you are saying and in your case, yes, there was a huge amount of damage done and lies told. Of course, like others say, there is also a lot of history there.. you were young when you met and you have grown together and yes he has hurt you, terribly, but he also came back, which kind of validates that your link was strong enough to get married in the first place?
And he gave you two beautiful children, a family and.. well, its history surely that you would take back a cheating husband and that you loved him then as despite everything, you love him now.
Having been the one who had an A once, I feel love is different to other 'rules' and conducts of behaviour. I believe that until we have 'learnt our lessons' in love, yes we can hurt one another, behave appalingly, treat our lovers how we would never want to be treated ourselves, or would dare to treat a friend.. and yet that love can survive. Or rise again, stronger, like a phoenix from the ashes. And as you say, you have to have strengh of character, self belief, be secure in yourself and be able to forgive and kind of.. not bear a grudge about the past behaviour? Do you think he has learnt his lessons now?
Perhaps he would be more willing to try some IC/MC now that your bond is a bit stronger, if you want to answer some of these questions? He went reluctantly before didnt he.
Hi Kalni,
I haven't kept up lately, but it sounds like things are pretty much the same, except as you say, the anger doesn't last as long each time you have it. I think I know what you mean, although my experience wasn't as long or as severe as yours. But we did reconcile and try to pull the skin back over the wound.
This morning my H woke up at 5:30, dressed and came over to my side of the bed to kiss me goodbye (a habit that we deliberately developed in the post-affair marriage). And since I had just gone to bed, I was thinking, he could stay and have sex before he goes. But he said he had things to do at the office. And I couldn't help but wonder if there wasn't some early-riser woman he might be meeting. But then why leave me, the still awake night owl, to go meet early-riser woman? So I decided to not bother trying to sleep anymore and went into the kitchen where I saw that he had helped himself to the coffee I had made and a piece of fresh blueberry cobbler. And I thought, don't be silly, he didn't leave you and drink your coffee and eat your pastry to go meet a lover. I think I will never lose that thought although I can't imagine him doing it again.
I cant separate anymroe the A and the lies and the cruelty etc etc. I think it all became one "grey mass" in my head still causing so much hurt.
Ali, I hear you. I know love/relationships is a learning thing. I know I would have done things differently (in my past) if I was aware of all the things I am aware now. Has he learnt his lessons? I honestly dont know.
Dear Lotus, things are not the same. Things are much better. Some people over the weekend commented to me how we looked so cool and happy together. It's just that "my insides" are a little slow and need time, a lot of time...
What you described, sounds... familiar. Having that thought is sad. I know I will be the same way. It is exactly what concerns me.
K
On the other hand, Kalni, always having the thought that if I forget to be kind to him, he might stray, keeps me more in line too.
Hi Kalni, what steps did you take that you feel helped to lead to a R?
Puppy posted something that I thought was very relevant to your previous question.
My wife asked me both during -- and after -- her affair, why I was fighting for her. Why I hadn't kicked her out immediately. I told her:
- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";
- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;
- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;
- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;
- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.
Minus the kids part, this rang very true for me. I think all of it rings true for you.
That Puppy is a smart guy! He nailed it(4 kids and all except his girls are the oldest and with me they are the youngest.) No regrets is a big deal to me. Maybe you too?
kat
Hi Kalni, what steps did you take that you feel helped to lead to a R?
I wish it was easy to explain. My loyal friends here could probably tell you more about what happened with us because I am not sure I can be specific now.
I fell apart, I picked myself up, I was very hopeful the first few months while he was crazy in love with her(he never admitted to me and I was naive enough to downplay the possibility of an A in my head), I felt stronger, lived better, started sepating my life from him, my dad got cancer and that affected me, I decided I wanted a divorce, pushed for it, he stalled, objected and then I fell in love. The minute I REALLY let go of him, he moved towards me and in a month he said he wanted back.
Timing helped. His affair had lost its appeal just as the book say, after the first 6 months they weere free to be with each other and she started pressuring him...
I guess I was lucky? Time will tell. This is aint over yet.
I received a newsletter from M Weiner Davies. It said :overcoming infidelity isnt for sissys (or sissies)...
And in it, it read "infidelity may eventually be forgiven but never forgotten, the dreams are gone" or even worse than that. The minute I read it, my heart sunk. It also said part of why she is sending this is to make people aware so to avoid indiscretions... Well, my H should have read it years ago, the damage is done.
I also read somewhere that my hurt should dealt by me. Not him. Fine. But some times I cant take it. It cant be undone, I cant forget. This is by far the toughest thing I had to do my whole life. I think I may be a sissy.
PS Things are fine btw. I cant make my mind stop. That's the problem.
((((((Kalni))))))
If you were a sissy you would have stopped long ago.
I don't think you will forget. You aren't supposed to. It should help you not take him for granted. To maybe think before the barb slips off your tongue, to appreciate each moment together...the good and the bad because you are together. You can't do this for him, only yourself. I give you a lot of credit. You are doing a great job.
hugs, kat
Of course you never entirely forget. It gets more distant, you get more reassurance and time and space from it, but we never can erase the memories.
You are not a sissy, or you would have given up years ago.
You are a strong, determined, passionate woman.
He is one lucky guy.
Hey Maria.....glad to read that things are fine. By the way I always knew that your mind was the problem!! :-)
Part of the difficulty in dealing with infidelity (for me anyways) was not really the act itself. It was more the lies and deceit during those days. I have forgiven, forgotten and pretty much buried it. WAS will have to live with it and they can put the spin on it that they want but they effed up.
Now in your case Maria (and for the benefit of anyone reading this very popular thread) the problem probably lies in the duration of the so called relationship and your ability to obtain "ALL" the details. I beleive part of the DB mantra is not to dig too much for info. Once you have the info. you need, decide what actions to take period. I know easier said than done. However, maybe the mind would not be having so much difficulty if it had not been exposed to so much information. Too late I know. It happened to me as well....too many details does not help.
The pain will fade and so will the memories, although you will never forget and will probably be reminded of them at the strangest times. Just like anything in our lives, we remember it clearly for a long time, but over time it fades. This will too, but it will take time, and the bad thing is that for some reason human brains are wired to remember traumatic events more so it will take even longer for this to fade, but it will.
Just don't distance from H when you get these thoughts. You may not want to tell him everything, but let him know that you are having a rough day. Communicate.
Glad things are going well with H.
I cant make my mind stop. That's the problem.
This might help with the runaway thoughts. Google Martin Seligman and "Learned Optimism." It works to refocus your thinking.
THE ABCDE TECHNIQUE
Adapted from Learned Optimism, by Martin Seligman, Ph.D.
Martin Seligman is a clinical psychologist who studied a phenomenon called "learned helplessness" in order to better understand depression. He writes about how a person's way of explaining things to themselves and by extension their beliefs greatly affect their moods and their ability to function. People who tend towards depression and to feelings of self-diminishment often speak to themselves and explain things to themselves in self-depreciating, harshly critical ways, ways in which they would never talk to someone else. He advocates the following approach in order to adapt a new attitude and become constructive. Many people find this technique most effective when they write their way through the different steps. Reading the example below will help make the steps clearer.
Adversity = Write down what the challenge is. Write down what happened, what you are up against, how you are feeling.
Underlying Belief = Write down your underlying fear is. What are the assumptions which underlie your worry, what are you really afraid of? What is your belief of what will happen if you can't meet the challenge?
Consequences = State the effects on your feelings and behavior of holding these beliefs and fears. What are the consequent feelings and behaviors that result from the underlying beliefs?
Disputation = Dispute the underlying beliefs and self accusations. Pretend you are a lawyer for the defendant (yourself) and eloquently argue the other side, argue in defense of yourself. Argue against the negative underlying beliefs. Find other ways and beliefs by which to evaluate and understand your behavior or the situation. For example, if you are explaining your failure to complete the chapter, by accusing yourself of being lazy, try to explain it differently - "this is the toughest chapter I've had to write." Think of these adversities and challenges as opportunities for learning. Think of various ways you can find out more or approach the problem differently. Keep in mind that there is always a solution (Buddha said to look for the third way). In your mind, search for resources you could use to get more information or perspective, like books or people. Make a plan for how to handle the situation (which could include doing nothing, but not worrying or being self-critical).
Energization = Register how you are feeling now. Do you feel any better? Hopefully, you do. If not, write down what you are thinking now; this is the new adversity to address.
An example:
Adversity = I said that I would turn in my results chapter to my sponsor this week and I haven't. I'm not finished.
Underlying Belief = My sponsor will think I'm not a good student. (My sponsor won't want to work with me anymore. This will take away her respect for me.)
Consequences = Low self esteem, anxiety, pressure
Disputation = Okay, I can't go any faster. I'm confronting problems the best I can. This chapter had certain problems, which I think that I cured but I'm not sure. Anyway, it's going to get done. I've finished 3/4 of it now. My sponsor is very busy. She probably hasn't even noticed that I'm late turning it in. If I want, I can leave her a note about it or I can just turn it in next week. I'll check with my friend, her teaching assistant, to see whether she thinks it's okay just to hand it in next week. Maybe I should hand in what I've done and get her feedback on that part? That's an interesting idea. That way she'll also see the problem I'm having now and if she has any ideas about what to do, she can tell me. I'll ask my friend about that. I'm not a good student? She's seen my other chapters and thought they were okay. Why would she think I'm not good now? She was willing to sponsor me in the first place. The promise to hand in the chapter this week? That was the right thing to do. That's how I keep myself going, with deadlines, concrete goals, and commitments. Also time keeps passing and I want to get this done and gone on with other things. Look, it's not going to be perfect when I hand it in. I've met that underlying belief before, having to have what I write and do be perfect. She'll dump me? Come on, Lois, for handing in the draft of a chapter a few days late or a week late? Does that make sense, given that she's felt okay about my work so far? Ease up. It's okay.
Energization = I feel better.
It works to refocus your thinking.
How come folks here don't argue with you much when you start trying to get them to refocus their perspective?
Am I interacting with the hard cases too much?
Also recommended reading: "The Time Paradox".
The Time Paradox website
Thanks guys, I am ok, most of the time.
There is something, a small part of this ...wound, that has never stopped bleeding. So it cant heal, yet. It's difficult to explain and bothers me a lot which I must confess is the reason I dont post much even when I do have time. I have come to the conclusion it is a personal thing. It is the most personal thing. After the first initial reactions to the bomb and then the A that are pretty must standard, the real healing and the time neeeded is very personal. And I am slow.
Coach, I dont know whose lawyer I should poretend I am. I am trying to defend my H so to give him some kind of excuse and to regain some of my repsect for him which I miss so terribly. I also KNOW why I feel this way, I feel totally normal and sane, I just cant handle the associated pain.
My best friend complains I analyse too much everybody's perspective and feels that it is confusing. It was helpfull but now I think it stalls me.
I still, not often but still, want to run away and leave him, only to avoid the process.
Adversity - I feel _______________________.
Belief - I feel that way because______________________.
Consequence- Feeling that way way causes me to _________________.
Dispute -I would feel different if _____________________.
Energization- What do I need to do to accomplish that?______________________________________ - do it.
Just peeking in. I really don't know how I would feel if I had the true piecing experience...I do think that at times I would probably be overwhelmed with feelings of resentment and rejection (how could you have DONE this??-type feelings) as you have been.
You are miles past anywhere I traveled, so I don't have advice. But, I do have support and hugs. (((K)))
There is something, a small part of this ...wound, that has never stopped bleeding. So it cant heal, yet. It's difficult to explain and bothers me a lot which I must confess is the reason I dont post much even when I do have time. I have come to the conclusion it is a personal thing. It is the most personal thing. After the first initial reactions to the bomb and then the A that are pretty must standard, the real healing and the time neeeded is very personal. And I am slow.
Hi K,
I feel the same way. I guess I am slow too.
Hang in there and I will also.
"And I am slow."
Ah, but very steady; so take the time it needs.
I am very slow too. I don't know if piecing makes the process faster or slower. Part of me thinks having the WAS back would make it better, but then I know I don't do well when I have contact with my XH (course, he's usually still with OW, so that's definitely part of the reason it irks me).
Hey K.. my sitch has been easier than some, but I still have to swallow feelings, daily even, becuase I still feel anger, resentment and .. jealousy (something I never felt before in my life). It doesnt matter how loving and recommitted they are, we went through the agony of knowing our partners were choosing to lie alongside someone else each night. I agree that in your case, you read and saw too much and have unfortunately given yourself all the gory details. Curiosity killed the cat!
I still have those 2 photos imprinted on my brain.. of her in bed, tousled, smirking, post ML. It kills me to think about it and I know you saw worse.. you showed me a pic that was worse (although your H looked uncomfortable I swear!).
I think you will 'forget' one day, enough for it not to be so painful, you just need to let some more time go by, equivalent to the amount of damaging images YOU saw, for the memories to fade a little. Give yourself a break, you did a tremendous thing, you took a man back after not just an A, but an absence from the home and your lives.
hugs, as always.. miss you! xxx
Wow,
I thought I was the only one here that had found photos of the affair......
Kalni,
Yes the past does creep up on ya now and then BUT.. Ya the OM was with my wife almost 3 years ago. SHE IS WITH ME NOW... I win he lost.
I am still working on the trust issue... But the way I see it is that you and I need to work on ourselves now. We DBed... We grew...Now the only way the memories of the past can hurt us is if WE let them.
"my sitch has been easier than some, but I still have to swallow feelings, daily even, becuase I still feel anger, resentment and .. jealousy (something I never felt before in my life)."
If you want an intimate, honest, open R, why would you consistently hide yourself from your spouse and lie to him on a daily basis?
Yeah, I found their secret email account Dr. Love and saved were pics and emails of 2 years. Pics in bed , on vacation when he was supposed to be on a work trip, her in Paris with him carrying bags with clothes for our clothes etc etc... Too much but thankfully I also found emails with her complaining and asking why he couldnt move in with her, why he didnt even see her but would only call her once in the morning and once at night even when he was living on his own, a year after he moved out. So I found out things I wished werent true but also witnessed the whole process of their love dying...
I dont hide my feelings oldtimer. I am just trying to control them not to affect every single moment of our current life.
Kalni,
EVERY sitch is different so I cannot say what is really going on with yours or your H (beside your H being a man and My W is a woman)
BUT I am beginning to really believe that there is truly a "Fog" like my wife kind of had an out of body experience. Like she was living two lives. Her real life here with us and her "soap opera" life.
talking the other night she stated about how "husbands" sometimes Need sex more that wives, I asked her does she think that is why some husbands have "affairs?" she said probably.. I then asked her does she think it is alright for them to have affairs. She said no...
So you see I really think she thinks of her affair with the cheating husband as "the other woman".
YES I have photos also... Can't seem to throw them away yet. I do not have E-mails... but for a while way back..(Two years ago) I did keep a record of phone calls. It seemed the OM would call W from a pay phone (he lives in another state) and have her call him back. ( I traced over 15 phone booths in Washington) anyway the phone calls were actually happening several times a day at first... then about twice a day..... Then maybe once a week. I do not know if they are still talking but I really don't think so. Even though I do not know what was said in those calls... the tapering off to me does seem like the interest was fading. In fact the way my wife was acting (back then) I think the OM just wanted a piece of @ss and took advantage of my wife. I think it became a fatal attraction time thing with her. And he just wanted the one night stand but she really thought he cared.
I hope things work out for you.
I feel that I have finely made it past the point of no return and things are just getting better and better.
I can’t describe the feeling of getting over that hill
I have grown and so has my wife. I now am really confident at to where I am but I want to become better. I need work now on getting what I want... not just what would keep us together
"I dont hide my feelings oldtimer. I am just trying to control them not to affect every single moment of our current life."
Good point. Expressing these feelings to H may make the situation worse as the deep wounds may need more time to heal. But I think the pictures and e-mails are probably good to have seen. You now have a more accurate understanding of the extent of what took place and further deception has been pre-empted. This is also better than being in denial or jumping to wrong conclusions or always wondering what happened.
You are a 'detective' like me and I agree, that knowing the details from emails of the dying off of the affair is very helpful to you - yuo know that it was him that was losing interest and backing away from her and resisting moving in, or introducing her to friends etc. As I know from all the information I got from friends, that it was Helen who loved H, but he that backed away and broke it off, as your H did. I find that helpful and reassuring to know, but to be honest, it all seems like a loooong time ago now, as DrLove says.
xxx
So, our romantic getaway isnt happening this week. H cant get away. After ignoring the fact that the trip wa planned for this Thursday and not mentioning anything about it, today he came with answer. I asked him over the weekend if he could go or not because Iknew he was facing a crisis at work. He asked me how I feel about it. I said I am disapointed but I understand. I wouuld do the same, only it is...work again. He validated etc etc. Too many issues tangled with each other. This weekend we tried to make love. Tried cause we couldnt. He initiated but something didnt...click. He was holding me tight and he put he hands in my hair pulling face to his chest, felt like his little breakthrough of somekind. I had a dejavu (sp?) of a momnet 3 years ago, started crying. I regrouped immediately.
A year into piecing and things arent...right yet, you know? SO many sticky reminders, the lies still cut me deeply. I am looking for the reason why I cant let go. Am I playing the victim, trying to punish him emotionally? I am caring and compassionate, logically I can identify where/when things got out of hand for him, but still...
Ali mentioned jealousy. I was never the jealous type. Guess what? I am now jeallous. Not of him now. Of him then, of her.
H is a good looking, successful man. WHat happens down the road when a 25 yr old woman starts pursuing him? Why cant he be passionate about me? Why dont I hear words of appreciation for the patience, the understanding, the chance he got?
On the other hand, this weekend he started kissing me and caressing at a christening where people from my work were. I was pleasantly suprised.
Too bad about the getaway.
Glad he was validating, affectionate this weekend, etc. Those are all so great.
He told me today he wanted to go away so that we could talk, brings the last things out in the open. Funny, that was what I had imagined. I wanted that one-to-one time to talk and get mad and become tender and ne HONEST and get intimate. Not sexually. INTIMATE. Share thoughts and fears and worries and plan ahead together...
We talked a bit. He said he understands my position, he puts himself in my shoes, has requested from his boss to consider the possibility of a change in hours and salary and awaits his answer...
We'll see.
K
Oh, K! When I read your updates, I do see ACTIONS! Not just words. What a difference.
From both of you. I know you are still 'bleeding' but hopefully regaining that intimacy will help you both to heal...
Hugs!
BBJ
You are right! Actions and not just words. he is processing too and it seems that you both are getting to the same place.
hugs, kat
I really see him trying! That is so awesome that he is actually doing these things!!!
He is certainly working toward a goal K. Slow and steady....perfect. I'm impressed by both of you and your determination to see this through.
So glad that things, although slowly, keep moving forward. The slowness may be frustrating at times, but it is probably necessary for a full healing. The bigger the wound the slower the process, but healing is taking place and I hope it continues.
"On the other hand, this weekend he started kissing me and caressing at a christening where people from my work were. I was pleasantly suprised."Looks like lots of good "on the other hand(s)."
After following you since about the beginning, I see changes in how your H responds & initiates interactions with you.
Someone said, it may have been you, lol, not to get too excited that you've made it to piecing, too quickly, as the real work then begins.
Sunny
Hi Sunny!!! I read your update, hope you get better soon!!
Yes, we are moving forward. Slowly but we are. And I am still surprised by his patience. Yesterday we talked about how we are now, I told him I need to take the next step. I need to recommit to him and decide to let go of the past. I am trying but I stop at the same point again and again. I am missing a piece of the puzzle. I need HIS words of what happened, not hers. I need to listen to him speak about his feelings, the process, the journey he made, the way he lived it. And that is not theoritical. Because it would give me an idea about "why are things differerent now, what changed (for the better)". His reply "it happened, I fell out of love with her" is not reassuring at all, it is the opposite. I explained that, he said he understands. He understands that that would mean intimacy, connection, recommitement.
Having these convos with him isnt easy. We are learning to communicate, we are learning what is important for each one of us. Yesterday, I told him I see change in him. That his eyes that were stone cold are back to the good "normal". He was pleased I said that, he said he doesnt realise his eyes are so telling. I asked him if he didnt know how he treated/looked at me back then. His reply was disappointing "no, I had no idea I had changed so much".
Those of you with me for a while, may remember that H is a typical "good guy", a "great catch", smart, polite, treats women as equals, is very generous with money, good father, good son in law. All that, made me believe for years I was the lucky one and that showed in my eyes, the amdiration, the appreciation. H got in an affair when I started criticising him, when my tired body changed my mood, when I got fed up with deaths, sicknesses and his schedule. When I lost that admiration for him. He went out and found it. He went for the quick fix.
Now, I think that kills him. The fact that I am not proud to have him as my H,that I am reluctant to believe his good intentions, now that his word is questionable. I know that is a love killer and try to "water it down", I am trying to always be aware of how he sees himself in my eyes but there isnt much I can do since I still have major issues... I feel for him. I really think it is very hurtful to see your partners eyes and instead of trust and appreciation to look at hurt and bitterness or doubts. That's what I told him. It is a viscious circle, mistrust, walking on eggshels, vague communication, expectations all lead to the next wrong choice. We have to agree on some basics, why, how, how to avoid it in the future, defense mechanisms, time outs for US, create a solid front against the world.
I think NOW is the time we could actually start moving towards that. Now that I am calmer and a lot of my anger is gone. Now that for a year, we passed the "breaking point" the "embarassment point" of getting "reaquainted" with each other, we have established a "normal and peaceful" routine.
I am still working on me. It has become a habbit. And it is tiring but worth the effort. If nothings else comes out of this, I will at least know how to "map" myself.
K
"All that, made me believe for years I was the lucky one and that showed in my eyes, the amdiration, the appreciation. H got in an affair when I started criticising him, when my tired body changed my mood, when I got fed up with deaths, sicknesses and his schedule. When I lost that admiration for him. He went out and found it. He went for the quick fix.
Now, I think that kills him. The fact that I am not proud to have him as my H,that I am reluctant to believe his good intentions, now that his word is questionable. I know that is a love killer and try to "water it down", I am trying to always be aware of how he sees himself in my eyes but there isnt much I can do since I still have major issues... I feel for him."
The danger is that key thing he craves (respect/admiration) which caused him to have an affair is still not back on track, so ... more work to do. But the good part is you still seem to have a lot of admiration left which is probably why you "settled".
Are you doing all you can to avoid getting stressed out that way again? And have you really explored this thing called "forgiveness"? After all when you went out and in a way "cheated" on him he probably sensed it - would you tell him this?
One of the things I realized is that the thing call "love" means so many different things to different people. But for me it translates to "commitment" - for better or worse, ... Otherwise marriage is a sham.
Yes, I wasnt jealous either, but I am still jealous of him, with, her, back then. I totally agree.
I was amazed at this !!: "He said he understands my position, he puts himself in my shoes, has requested from his boss to consider the possibility of a change in hours and salary and awaits his answer..."
WOW! When is he likely to get that then?
I find it interesting that after the years of coldness/transferance of limerance to someone else and kind of being 'switched off' and unaware.. the WAS comes back and then wierdly gets a taste of their own medicine as you are the one with a 'coolness' but you are not being unaware, you are very aware of the effect it could have on him. I guess its a balancing act. I agree with everyone else, he's really different now, he's really catching up with piecing and making ACTIONS and really listening to you. It all sounds positive sweets.
I could have done that too - been distant at times, cold, mistrustful, because of the way he left. I felt that and still do at times, but like you I watered it down, right down, as my need to get on and make babies overrode my need to express my negative emotions! I guess I was being practical. We still have issues with ML too, him not me, which makes the doubts surface, but I just have to take it on face value when he reassures me its him not me and he does feel passion and desire me.. as you should? Not easy though, huh!
K, I love your update. Healing can be painful, but it leads to better things. You guys are moving in the right direction. And I am glad his eyes have changed. I know exactly what you mean about that. There had been times in the past when Dan's words said he wanted back in, but I looked into his eyes, and he still wasn't "there" so I knew it wouldn't work...
Love ya sis.
The danger is that key thing he craves (respect/admiration) which caused him to have an affair is still not back on track, so ... more work to do. But the good part is you still seem to have a lot of admiration left which is probably why you "settled".
Are you doing all you can to avoid getting stressed out that way again? And have you really explored this thing called "forgiveness"? After all when you went out and in a way "cheated" on him he probably sensed it - would you tell him this?
I can always count on fb2 to push my buttons (
)...
Regarding your first comment, I recognise what is happening at the moment between us but without sounding selfish, I think there is a lot of work to be done mainly from/om him. I cant say I admire him still, at least not even close to way I did in the past. I tend to see him as a man with flaws, and working on accepting him as such and consequently be able to forgive him. Working on forgiveness? You bet your a$$ I am. I am not there yet, it is VERY difficult, I certainly could not apply for the Mother Theresa award this year...(or ANY year)
Your second comment: I didnt cheat on him in ANY way. And that is not negotiable. I had told him my life has moved on, he read my emails dated AFTER the last deadline of Jun15th-17th 2008 and I have been very straight forward with him about it. Recently we had to talk about it, up until now he had said he didnt want to know anything. He asked a few questions and I answered each and everyone of them, not hiding anything, honestly and not feeling guilty or anything.
So, I dont feel he needs to forgive me. He may need to get over it but... tough luck! Small price to pay, dont you think?
The last few days I feel like things are moving very slow. I dont like that pace anymore. Hopefully something will change with his work soon.
My kids are showing all their hurt now (!!). THe y keep going back to the day he left us. I cant help wondering how that day will be talked about when they are older and what that means for their future Rs.
K
Hey K.. wow, so how do you answer, or do you get H to answer, to tell them why he left? H insists now every time its mentioned that he 'lost his mind' and was not in a fit state to make decisions, any, neverlone good ones as he 'didnt know what he was doing'. I suppose, "diminshed responsibility" could be an explanation for the way he behaved, like in murder cases?
Or.. what explanation does he give??
I agree and know you didnt cheat on H. He had left the house and you and was having a new relationship (albeit lying about it). You werent even spending time together or 'dating' as I was with H that summer and you gave him ultimatums, which he ignored. So you took a chance on love. You were heading for divorce. Ironically, he kind of decided to come back the moment you got back from America didnt he... he wanted to pick you up from the airport (he had no clue that you had visited a man there back then and has he since confirmed, that he had no clue? i.e: that isnt why he decided he wanted back). Wierd timing hey.
Lets talk soon hey
I think that the kids must be feeling fairly secure with both of you now so that they can let down their own walls. I know it probably doesn't seem that way but I believe it to be true. My kids were trying so hard to support me that they actually stopped being kids for a while. I knew they felt I was better when they started to get into trouble for doing stupid kid stuff again!
I take that as a good sign.
hugs, kat
"I can always count on fb2 to push my buttons ( smile )..."
That's what friends are for, sometimes ;-)
It seemed to me that your "cheating/falling-in-love/finding romance elsewhere" (note the quotes) had a real "drop-the-rope" effect. Maybe H sensed this, maybe his "falling-out-of-love" with OW was just a fortunate co-incidence. At any rate it seemed to me about this time the ship started to turn around. You (and H) made tremendous and steady advancement since then tho' I still see you struggling with forgiveness and blame.
yes you are right. That was when I finally dropped the rope. And I wasnt trying to show that to him which in my mind, played a big role. I wasnt acting as if and he felt it.
He said he had decided a few months back he wanted to come home but he couldnt confront her so he was trying to get her to say the words. Pretty much what he did with me in some ways.
Of course the year that followed was him trying to untangle himself from the mess he created. He said me finding the emails etc speeded up the process.
NO Ali, he hasnt talked about what he found to this woman, or what he felt missing in the end. Just general comments about big mistakes.
Kat, I was thinking the same way too. They finally open up (my kids). STill it hurts to see them hurting.
xx
So sad to see the kids having a rough time. Glad they are talking about it now.
As for their future relationships, I think that seeing your parents build a strong relationship and practice forgiveness can only help them in the long run so long as it is addressed properly to make sure they don't have abandonment issues later.
It's so ironic how when you are done they want back.
Yes indeed very ironic but not always the case. That is the one suggestion that I would give to anyone who's spouse wants out, get the helll out of there and fast.
On the kids front I have been lucky so far but as K warned me in the past, keep an eye. Who really knows what effect it has had on children. I am still trying to figure out what effect it has had on me.
Soooo, H and the other 3 chief editors quit last night. He says even if the other two change their minds, he wont. So today he wakes up and I can see him distracted and ready to snipe. I try to stay away and we talk about what happened. Last night at 3 in the morning when he returned, he said I didnt look excited. I was obviously half asleep and couldnt talk about it in depth. He was wide awake and on adrenaline.
Anyway, we had a big fight although I did try to tell him to calm down cause it wasnt me that bothered him. He got out of control because he said "I yelled" when I asked him "what do you suggest then" about something he had refused my suggestion about (what to eat for lunch). Things got outt of control with him saying he isnt gonna be controlled by me and other things that bring up underlying issues he has with HIMSELF. I even told him "I am being patient right now cause I know you are upset about work", he wouldnt let go. I drove off and drove around the block of the bank where he was taking money from the ATM. He got furious and called me a "selfish pr!ck" and few other things. Totally out of control. I saw hate in his eyes.Rage.
I shut up and we came home. He left to work and sent me a message that he was sorry and that he got out of control. I told him this is the last time he treats me like this. Next time it will be over. That I wont tolerate such a behaviour ever again and that I wont become his "outlet", his punching bag. He said he needs my support. I told him that's the way NOT to get any, wont take any outbursts like that ever again. I told him that is abuse and that he needs help.
Obviously he is under stress. But that's an old pattern I am not willing to accept anymore. If he needs support he will have it. But not by getting mad at me and letting steam off that way. The control thing surfaced again. I think it's a big issue. It's the reason I was careful not to demand that he leaves his job so far. I want to avoid him blaming me for his decsisions.
Last night he sent me a message saying heloved me and I should know that, and that all he wants is to love me and have me loving him back. It didnt last long.
K
((((((Kalni)))))
Well, you know it isn't really you he is mad at. And he knows it as well. So hopefully after a few hours he will calm down. He does want your support, but you are right, that doesn't mean you are his punching bag.
Oh Kalni..been reading all your posts, seems i have an H with exactly the same personality as yours, so its like reading about my own H constantly!
Anger always gets directed to the thing that they love the most, and deep down know that the connection is strong enough to take, but yes, we all know how much we can and cant tolerate, and if we dont tell them we will just continue to get 'punched'.
Always thinking of you and checking your threads Kalni
And always hoping for the best
I feel I have reached the end of my rope in the waiting game now, and H seems still very much in his own world, I dont see him ever coming out .
(((Kalni)))
Your H has difficulty taking the stress of such big decisions or happenings such as quitting a job. He is hurting and grieving and insecure as a result. I know this because I've been there; I took a much lesser paying public service job to spend more time with the family instead of on the road or in the air. And yes you are not his punching bag, but how can you be supportive in such a tense situation when you are hurting from OW and months of separation/neglect? Can you show him how much you appreciate what he's done in order to spend more time with you and the kids? And that less money is well worth it? And that you will be with him every step of the way? Do you think threatening to leave him is going to make things better? K, you choose a tough road to walk on but you're capable of it.
Kalni, I'm so sorry to hear of your tough day yesterday. All I can say is that I admire the courage you showed in the way you handled this difficult situation:
That I wont tolerate such a behaviour ever again and that I wont become his "outlet", his punching bag. He said he needs my support. I told him that's the way NOT to get any, wont take any outbursts like that ever again. I told him that is abuse and that he needs help...
Obviously he is under stress. But that's an old pattern I am not willing to accept anymore....
That shows a lot of self-awareness and restraint. Way to go, Kalni.
Whoo-hoo about him quitting his job!!! That is totally awesome!
Sorry to hear you guys got into a fight though. I can definitely see how he is stressed out about quitting his job, and why he was disappointed you weren't excited. I'm sure he really needed some validation and encouragement. It definitely doesn't excuse the yelling though. I can't imagine you threatening to leave made him feel good about his decision though, since you were obviously the big motivator for him to quit the job.
He got furious and called me a "selfish pr!ck" and few other things. Totally out of control. I saw hate in his eyes.Rage.
(sigh)
I was hoping to peek in and find everything better than it was. Kalni. Kalni.
Just letting you know that I think about you and hope you are OK. Sagapo.
FIB
Frank, I am OK. Honestly,watching my dad dying is the thing that takes all my attention right now. And that is why I made it clear to H, I am not putting up with any of his childish reactions anymore. I dont have time, strength, and more importantly, will to deal with his outbursts whether I know where they steem from or not.
The rest of the weekend was ok. He was on the phone very often with the other chief editors, they have asked for my take on things as well (they hardly know me), so we were making up possible scenarios, developments etc.
We went to a friends' house on Sunday where H put his arm around my shoulder and he announced he quit his job. All my GFs were thrilled... Their H's, not so much.
Anyway, MY SON'S BIRTHDAY is TODAY!! He is 9 years old. And he is one of the most interesting, intelectual, emotional kids I've met. And handsome too!!
Take care all
K
Happy Birthday to your S Kalni!! Thanks fro dropping by on my thread
Posted a reply! Hope alls going well!
Happy Birthday to your baby!! Did you do the balloons?
Glad he quit, I am sure that was hard for him. It is a great action for the both of you.
hugs, kat
I concur about your son.. he's a gorgeous, sweet natured, intelligent, curious, sensitive little boy, I wanted to kidnap them both and take them home with me!
I agree with Michelle... wow, fantastic news that he quit !!!! I'm so sorry he had a wobble and 'took it out on you' and well done you for standing up to him !! I remember you posting before about his anger outbursts, punching the door, yelling at the kids etc when he was stressed (pre bomb?) but no, theres no room for that in your new life. And your Dad being so poorly really puts life into perspective hey and lifes too short to be yelled at !! I am glad he proudly put his arm around you whilst he told all your friends.. maybe you too will get to spend some evenings together now, can you imagine!???
xxx
Sorry your dad is still doing poorly. (((Kalni)))
Happy birthday to your S!!!!!!
Happy Birthday to your son!
Sorry to hear about the stress in your family right now. As Mulesqb's father said..."Tough times dont last. Tough people do."
Does your H have a second job?
Yes he does Kerry. It's the morning job. He could only keep that and we woudl be OK. Not able to spend as we are, but fine. But I am sure, when the word gets out, he will get some offers. He is one of the best in his field.
H quit (and lets see if he will leave finally) as a reaction to mandatory cuts. The whole team quit, so he isnt doing for us. I think it suits him well but I dont believe he would make that decision anyway. He says he would have. We have been distant this last week. Both of us preoccupied with our own worries. I sent him a message today telling that these are the times we should be able to feel closer to each other, not the opposite...
Last night I didnt sleep. I kept thinking I would get a call from downstairs that my dad died. I was trying to listen to my mom crying... It didnt happen. I tossed and turned and my heart felt as if someone was squeezing it all night. Funny feeling and I know he is not in THAT stage yet, he could still turn it around, but he has quit fighting.
I was trying to think of A SINGLE complaint I have from my dad. Even when we fought, they were all clean, fair fights. He has been an excellent father, a sweet dad, a strong role model, a good husband, friend, a warm, loving, funny grandad... I cant imagine my life without him. He has been my strength for so long...
K
Just imagine...he thinks the same things of you. I will be praying for all of you.
Hugs and love, kat
So sorry! (((((((((K))))))))))))
Thats really sad K, your Dad is lovely and like you, I could not imagine life without my Dad, I really feel for what you are going through.
Hugs xxx
((((((Kalni))))))))
So sorry to hear that your dad has quit fighting, but after a number of years I don't blame anyone who is terminally ill. Watching my mom go downhill in renal failure for so long is not quite as drastic as cancer, but not any easier. Again, so sorry.
I hope your H took what you said to heart. There is absolutely no excuse for him being verbally abusive toward you. You have put up with an enormous amount of sh!t from him and have worked so hard to make changes and be loving and forgiving. He should be begging at your feet everyday, not yelling at you.
I hope that him quitting that night job will lead to more closeness between you.
Special K,
Your son sounds like an incredible boy, it seems like you have a wonderful connection.
The connection with your dad is strong also...the more love you have between you, the harder it is to imagine a life without him. My heart is with you...
Take Care,
Sunny
Hello Specialest of K's...
*hugs*
Three generations of wonderfulness... your dad, you and your son.
*hugs*
Finally!! I cant even imagine what newcomers went through if they lean on this board as much as I did 2,5 years ago...
(((((Kalni))))) No kidding!
Seriously! I've had withdrawls just wondering what you guys were all up to!
I got remarried and divorced while the system was down.
I was thinking about the newbies too. Hope things are going well. I appreciate all of your support.
Love ya! kat
Haha Kerry.
Yeah, that was a HUGE downtime. I would have gone absolutely bonkers 2 years ago! I think I checked this board every 3 minutes. Thank goodness it wasn't blocked at work!
Missed you all. Hope everyone had good weekends!
Hmmm. I was hardly on here when I was a newcomer...
...except in airports.
Tell me about it! lol!
Hugs to you (((Maria)))
Hey G,
I remember you posting from the airport sharing how alone you felt. I could picture you here at our departure hall and it broke my heart... SO glad things have changed so much for you!! (your baby girl is soooo cute!).
Guys, during the down time, I didnt divorce or remarry, but I did tell my H I want a divorce (again)... It doesnt matter now,I dont want to get nto details. He has quit and will stop working crazy hours in a few weeks. With the current financial state here, it is a risk but as he put it:save my family or have a job. He chose the first(with a HUGE delay)...
As I posted on FB, docs gave my dad another 2-4 months. No metastasis, all vital organs working fine, his prognosis with his test results could be 10 years as the docs told us. His depression and giving up has switched off "strength supply"... It is so sad.
I started a blog. I am posting all the articles, chapters etc that I have translated over these last 3 years. Michelle's, Stosny, Schnarch, Glass. If someone finds his way to the blog, searching the net, after a bomb and devasted as I did, I will be happy.
K
I thought the same thing.. I wouldnt have coped back in the early days if the board was down that long! I was on it every night till 3 am and it was a literal life line.
K...seriously, can you get a doctor to do a house call to your Dad and tell the Doc he is depressed, but to not let on to your Dad that’s why he's seeing him, but just to talk to him about how he is feeling? Maybe he could then prescribe him an antidepressant, to bring him out of this, but he could tell your Dad it is to help boost him.. so that he can eat properly?? He would be pleased at that!
H's Dad was so depressed after his stroke, he also gave up and was staying in bed, weak and refused to get help.. so we arranged a psychiatric appointment without telling him what it was for and the doctor diagnosed depression. I then went for a consultation with a Bach Flower Remedy practitioner, (because there was no way we could get his Dad to go see her, he was too ill and tired) and she prescribed a mix of natural flower remedies which we gave him every day... and it worked! His depression lifted and he started going out again on his mobility scooter and eating better. He also became more open and emotional whereas before he had been closed off and noncommunicative and we had many good conversations with him.
Sadly he had another stroke within 3 years and died. I'm just saying.. don’t give in to what the doctor told you, sounds like there is hope. You were sneaky before with those other tablets from the US..
He already quit one job, the evening one right? Is he quitting the second as well?
I am obviously glad that he is showing through his actions that his family is important to him. That you are important to him.
You guys have come so amazingly far.
Thinking of you and your dad and your family.
No, the one evening job. As of next Friday. He is very sad about it which worries me. He said he is doing it for ME. I told him he isnt. If he is and not doing it for him, we are heading for a problem down the road.
He did say he feels I am the only person for him, like I am "his person", you know?
I'm sure there will be an adjustment period.
You are definitely right that he needs to do it for himself.
If he is doing it because his family and you are important to him, that's fine because he is doing it because of his values. But doing it just because he knows you want him to it not. A small distinction, but I think knowing that he is the one making the choice is very important.
That is a very sweet thing for him to say!
No, the one evening job. As of next Friday. He is very sad about it which worries me. He said he is doing it for ME. I told him he isnt. If he is and not doing it for him, we are heading for a problem down the road.
He did say he feels I am the only person for him, like I am "his person", you know?
I like that he said this. I am sorry to hear about your father. I've been through this with both my parents and it's tough. Prayers are with you.
I got remarried and divorced while the system was down.
H's resignation was announced yesterday.He feels sad and upset. But he says he is happy with his decision. I have been trying to be "there" for him and he has been very tender and nice. He says he isnt worried about the future granted we will be down 50% of our montly income. So from living a comfortable life and saving we will have to adjust our life style a little bit now. Funny, now that he will have time, money will become an issue. I dont care and he say he doenst give a f@ck. We will be fine.
Last night I was watching a live TV show and guess who was at the audience? OW. I was shocked or anything. I actually feel we will be meeting accidentaly one of these days. At the airport or elsewhere. I didnt get mad and she didnt look that good. She looked like normal woman. I realise I am still mad at her but I am now seeing her with some kind of twisted compassion. She has gotten so close a few times and she was left, as she feared, with nothing. The consequences of what was a passionate story for her, are huge for me but...what can I do?
This is an era of change for me and my life. And I am staying low, trying to get ready for what will come.
K
H's resignation was announced yesterday.He feels sad and upset. But he says he is happy with his decision. I have been trying to be "there" for him and he has been very tender and nice.
Kalni,
YES be there for him but... give him space also... I know when my wife lost her job... well... I wanted to fix things...and it just upset her more... And now that she is looking...even more egg shells to walk on.
You may already know this but when talking to him about future work prospects…
Words Not to use…. “You should”
At least with my wife I have learned (the hard way)… If I have a suggestion about work... Instead of
“You’re good at XXXXX you should try looking for work at XXXXXX”
The right way….
“You’re good at XXXXX... have YOU ever thought about looking for work at XXXXX”
<<This is an era of change for me and my life.>>
If there is one thing I learned especially in the last 3 years and in general; life is in a constant flux. Nothing stays the same....when it does (for a while) we get complacent or take things for granted. So I guess the secret is that old cliche "enjpy the moment"....becasue in a second it will be gone. What will we be left with? A memory........make good memories.
I understand what you mean however. In this case you know changes lie ahead. I remember talking to you a long time ago and you were hoping or actually wishing that your hubby quit on eof his jobs.....well here we are.....keep it positive. Money is nice...you can buy things.....but you can not buy time.
As far as the other change is concerned, well I don't have very much exerience with that at all. The only thing I can muster up is I am sorry. I feel an attachment to your dad (the way you have described him). I don't think I ever heard or read anything close to a negative word regarding him.
Be strong Maria....be there for the people you love.
mats!
Glad you guys will have so much more time together!
It will definitely be a financial adjustment, but I'm sure you guys can make it work. Having that time together is definitely worth it.
Glad you are being supportive and that he is being so tender. Seems like that much is working.
Life is constantly changing. Wish they could all be good changes like H quitting his job.
Thinking of you and your family.
(((Maria)))
My OB doctor scared me today. I was supposed to have a lump checked out with a mammogram and an unltra sound. I called to ask when should I have those done so that he could read the results and advise me and he said I shoudl go ahead and schedule an operation/removal/biopsy since "he knew there was something there-felt it during examination I should go ahead and have an operation". The same doc 3 months ago told me it wasnt much to worry about. I argued how could he proceed with no tests/results, he said in ten minutes we would know if it was cancer.
Today a friend of mine had a mastectomy, stage III cancer, because her OB was not a special in breasts and couldnt read a mammogram. He opened her up only to close her again and reduced her chances of survival because she cant have chemo immediately.
I ignored my OB, found and arranged an urgent meeting with a hospital's top specialist and had a mammogram and an ultra sound in 3 hours. I am clear, nothing abnormal, no ops needed. I think I lost 3 years of my life. My H came and met me at the doc's office and was with me all the way. (years ago I did that on my own-he couldnt remember why, I could: THE FOG).
I am mad at my doc, he obviously needed some extra money. I am happy and grateful I am OK.
A famous greek poet(ress), had an interview on TV. She said being in love is all about speed and has time as an enemy. We should not talk about "a love" until it's dead. If there is something left then it has become love, if it is nothing left, then it was...fog she said. She said, "what meaning it had, we figure from the words we use about it to judge it AFTERWARDS". My H says his A was A HUGE MISTAKE.
(((((Kalni)))))
Good job getting things taken care of without waiting for that doc! A great way to get rid of the anxiety!
H saying the A was a HUGE MISTAKE! That's kinda new, isn't it?
Oh jeez. Glad everything is okay! That must've been so stressful. How awesome that your H went with you and was so supportive.
I got all stressed out with you for a moment. Good job being your own advocate and getting it done. Big hugs!!
kat
Thanks guys, the last couple of weeks, my friend was diagnosed, Kat had that "thing", my dad is dying, I felt like it was bound to hit closer, you know?
Just remember they cut my cancer out so now it is gone. I am good. Good lesson to follow up even if you are scared of the answer.
love ya, kat
Good job getting that done immediately Maria. It's so scary to think that he was so willing to just do surgery without further testing. That's got to be malpractice.
Hugs to you Maria!
Hi K,
That's one thing I learned with my father's Big C...you must be proactive or there's a good chance you're going down.
Good for you that you went the distance right out of the gate...you're a strong woman & worthy of respect!
I'm knee deep in legal wrangling (sp?) at the moment & will be more available when I come up for air.
Sunny
Hey K..I'm sorry about your friend, so it turned out to be stage III, was she the one with the good family and lovely kids? Thats very sad that she didnt get to see a specialist.
As for you.. yes I panicked there with you for a moment! Sounds like you have a private system there where you are free to go see a different doctor of your choice? Anyway I am so glad you are all clear!
I was also twice told that I had a lump in my breast.. 3 years they told me I had a lump and needed ultrasound, mamogram and needle biopsy.. turned out there was no lump! Second time was this August.. I was referred again for a lump to the breast cancer clinic and went through all the worry and again.. no lump. So I turned down the mamograph this time! I know that I have 'lumpy' b()()bs now and this can confuse some doctors. And its great that H was there to support you, yay !
I cant understand why your original doc would reccommend a parial tissue biopsy op without ultrasound and mamographic evidence and even needle biopsy, thats terrible, you should write and complain!
Oh and yes, the poet.. I kept saying dont I, if you read my emails during my A you would swear I was madly in love, but when I looked backed and reflected on it, it wasnt love, it was a huge mistake. I hope you believe this now, because H does keep telling you he never loved her. Hugs and glad you are ok.
I am thinking of sending H's CV out so that he can get a night job. Coming home and finding him here has really changed my routine and it...bothers me! LOL He is nervous, he is funny, he wants to go on a shopping spree. CHANGE. H hates changes. It was one of the reasons that made me believe he wouldnt change "us", our "team".
My dad is getting worse and now, he wants to fight. Obvioulsy he feels he is drifting away but the sitch is not reversible. I tried to warn my mom. She said she knows...
Reading saffie's post on forgiveness reminded I am still ways away from feeling OK. I go back and forth a lot. I am not consistent and not ready to let go yet. I still have visions of confronting OW and feel constantly threatened.
We havent made love for 3 weeks. We snuggle and hug and kiss but ever since I told him I am missing something, he backed off completely. Honestly, I dont care much.
Coach once posted to someone that if you dont get a second honey moon you are not piecing. I never got mine and if I did, it wasnt noticable.
Sometimes I think my negative nature is all that gets in the way. Sometimes I feel there is a moment that I need to trust and I get over it shutting off, in the sense of "dont care what he feels/does/thinks" etc.Our progress has been one step forward, two back. You dont get very far that way.
K
I am alive and my kids are great! Work is hectic but OK and winter is almost here. All good things.
Well although you wanted him to work less I am sure it is strange to have him suddenly around so much more....one thing I thought about if I had ever been able to R with Dan is what it would be like to get used to having him around so much again...you have gotten used to living single much of the time with him at work. However with time I think you will get used to it! I have heard similar things from women when their husbands retire and they are suddenly around all the time.
Glad the health scare was resolved, I am sure it was terrifying until you knew the full story...
slow progress is better than no progress....or even quick progress (but what the hell do I know).
3 weeks eh??? hmm...maybe you should stop being so honest....
something missing??? What possible good can come out of you telling your spouse that something is missing? Unless of course you can articulate what that is. Oh Maria, what are we gonna do with you? LOL
Hang in there!
Un abbracio affetuoso....wish I can say winter is a good thing over here....
Ha John, yes give me a Greek winter any day !!
K, I am sorry your Dad is very weak, but is there no hope, it sounded positive that he wants to fight? Could alternative therapies help him? What about Reiki? A raw food diet? Faith? What is not reversible if the cancer has receeded? Sorry to ask, I just wanted to understand what you are going through, it must be so hard I cant imagine.
Funny that H is getting under your feet and spooking you with his prescence! I bet the kids are loving it though
Haha. I'm sure it is quite an adjustment for both of you.
Must be nice to have help with the kids though. And you will both adjust if you give it time.
You can make the extra time together help your piecing. I think you have to have time together to have a second honeymoon!
Thinking of you and your family.
Hi K
Happy to see you are doing well.
t