Almost all events we go to but no worries there. There is no way I would ever act out on anything. I have a hard time trying to understand how the OM or my wife could have done what they did. It is hard for me to comprehend how someone could do something so wrong to people that trust them and that would affect so many people. I know this woman would not cheat on her husband and she knows I would not cheat on my wife. But we both know in another place and another time……………..
Ok Root, Tonight I went to a coffee shop just to
1. Get out of the house
2. Leave a little mystery to where I am going
3. Read a book
It was great. I never really took the time to go somewhere that is a social spot just to read.
Anyway I think you will understand more if maybe instead of "separation" I used the word Detachment. You see no matter how much I tried to detach before I was still "married" still acting on emotions. Still thinking things were going to change. So it may be a mental thing to me but I now can feel more detached. I am still legally married. I am not going to go cruse the bars for a date. But now I can relax. I can be at the coffee shop and if a woman sitting next to me starts to talk to me it's ok.
Tonight while I was sitting there one did sit by me. She pulled out her lap top and I said to her. “I didn’t know they had Wifi here". She said she just found out yesterday. She was looking for a house to rent in town. I told her I did not know of any to rent but there were plenty for sale. She said she was not ready to buy one she was going to be going back to school.
I went back to reading my book and then her BF came in. No big deal.
Now if I was wearing my wedding ring, I would have been self concuss of talking to her and she may not have felt comfortable talking to me.
This is also why I came back to piecing...
My situation is really strange Root. Wife has not been with OM in almost 2 years. But she has told me she loves him and has no feeling for me. We do not fight, We have not had sex for almost 2 years, In a way right now we are dependent on each other being that she does not have a job but I need her because she is great at knowing what bill need to be paid and taking care of our finances.(This is something I will need to learn).
So let me call this a "separation" and you can call it detachment. Nothing is going to happen (unless W instigates it) until after son is out of school this year and he and I get back from our father son trip.
I posted to Tal that aside from some down days I actually feel kind of relived. Like the pressure of working on my marriage has been released. I am no longer actively pursuing my marriage but who knows maybe now things may just fall into place. Kind of like trying to get pregnant. Sometimes you are so stressed at trying nothing happens, and if you are not trying and are relaxed… Bam you are Prego… So if something happens and wife wants to actively work on our marriage again great. If not then I am preparing myself for the next chapter of my life.
BTW... Saffie, I told you about the 10% pay cut I got. AND then the 10 percent layoffs looming at my company... well yesterday my boss gave me two more job responsibilities to take on so the chances of me being laid off just got allot slimmer. PLUS I will need to do over time and that will make up for the pay cut..
Ok time for bed 3:00 am comes around fast
Later
Dr Love..
One example of how things have changed from before.....
This weekend there is a b-day party for wife's aunt. NORMALY we would go together. This weekend I am taking my own car. I get there when I want and I leave when I want. BTW I get along great with Aunts son's (wife cousins) I will probably stay longer that her....
Dr. love,
Im glad that you are in a "better place". I am a little jealous I have to say. Because sometimes I wish that things would end or just go forward, staying in limbo is no place to be.
You sound more relieved, I can tell in your post, you've been working so hard for so long, and yet you can force her to make a decision she has to do because she wants to. You deserve to be happy too, and to be with someone who loves you.
Wish I could have been there to hang out with you. I love coffee shops, I just don't drink coffee, Tea drinker here
H is supposed to leave from San Diego this afternoon... are you near there?
I live about 25 miles north of San Francisco... Wine country..
(It used to be cows)
Doc
maybe you'll bump into him... lol.. and not even know it!
ok,
Don't know if it is good new or bad. Wife took Neice to court today for her DUI. Wife has been talking to neice allot lately.
Whilw talking Wife told me they called niece up and when she told me this she said they called her "maiden" name. I asked how they could have. She said she took her maiden name back. I said is she already Divorced? She said ya. When no body contests it is quick.
I THOUGHT SOMEONE SAID IT TAKES SIX MONTHS?????????
Anyway I can see a problem brewing. Niece is 30 years old.. Wife is 55. Wife seems to be reverting backwards in time....
On the other hand... since I released her last weekend. She really seems to be more interested about my going on’s...This is the second night now I have gone out........
Later
Dr LOve
Okay that makes more sense. I like the detachment. That's healthy... and I think being open to life, chatting with people and just living in a positive way, taking care of yourself and loving yourself, your child and accepting the situation with her for what it is, is good. It's definitely not perfect, but you are doing the best that you can and being there for your son. It sounds like a good way to deal with an imperfect situation.
Doc,
As usual, thanks for stopping by for a cybervisit.
I agree with ROOT's post and it appears that a bit of mystery has piqued W's curiosity. Any good plans for the long weekend?
Daybreak,
I resopnded on your thread
Dr LOVe
Wow,
SO today I called home to get some info from Wife.
She was all mad at her mom. I asked what was up?
She went on saying how her mom does not understand how Niece could get busted for throwing an under age party, how she could be pulled over for drinking yada yada yada.
THEN wife say's " I guess mom does not remember having to bail wife’s brother out of jail, I guess mom does not remember me having to go pull her out of bars.. yada yada yada.
I told wife everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is to learn by them.
But I got to thinking. Is it me or does it seems my wife try’s to justify "mistakes" kind of like saying... Its ok everyone does it. Like its ok to DUI others do it. OR "it's ok to have an affair other have done it"
Or is this just me reading things into this that are not true..
Doc
Wow,
SO today I called home to get some info from Wife.
She was all mad at her mom. I asked what was up?
She went on saying how her mom does not understand how Niece could get busted for throwing an under age party, how she could be pulled over for drinking yada yada yada.
THEN wife say's " I guess mom does not remember having to bail wife’s brother out of jail, I guess mom does not remember me having to go pull her out of bars.. yada yada yada.
I told wife everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is to learn by them.
But I got to thinking. Is it me or does it seems my wife try’s to justify "mistakes" kind of like saying... Its ok everyone does it. Like its ok to DUI others do it. OR "it's ok to have an affair other have done it"
Or is this just me reading things into this that are not true..
Doc
Ok So I guess today I am going to be taking the next "card" out of this shaky house of cards...
After W Aunts party I am going to tell Wife that I am planning on informing Oldest D about our pending separation. Seems to be getting closer now.
NOBODY knows we are having problems. At least it has not been talked about. This will be the first time that at least I am admitting out loud that there is a problem.
I am not going to mention the affair. I am just going to tell her that Mom and I are having problems, We tried to work them out this past year but I have just come to the conclusion that mom just does not want to be married anymore.
If Daughter asks for more information I will just tell her she needs to ask you Mom I can't speak for her....(D is 25yo)
On the brite side......
Son and I are planning on going to the movies.. something called "the dog hotel?" and we may do some more fishing this weekend..
Ok My B-Day in next month. Last year I went to las Vegas (by myself) and had an ok time but I vowed NEVER to spend my B-day alone agian. Opened my cards from across the pond and got one phone call from a fellow. (can you call a female a Fellow?) DBer
wife did not call.
So now I am trying to think of something to do this year.
Any sugjestions??
Dr Love
Dr. love,
Well... Do you have any friends you could go out with? If not, what about going out with your son? You guys could go to dinner and then to a movie? If I was closer, I'd take you out!
Definately don't spend it alone. The other thing you could do is if you have a friend that lives out of state, maybe you could meet them half way and go out? Just a thought.
How has she been with you otherwise?
Hey tal..
I AM SO PI$$ED RIGHT NOW...
Off to E- mail ya
you got mail
you know who you are
Doc
Hey Doc, Root, Tired, its me Kali. it has been over a year since i have been here and decided tonight to check in on all my friends.
Doc sorry to hear that things have not gone the direction you were hoping with W but it sounds like you are making peace with what is.
Ok, off to go and try and catch up, i had to dig around to find you all (Doc changing his name and all)
I missed all you guys, and I profusely apologize...
Hi kali, welcome back! No need to apologize!
Doc..
You've got mail... Sorry I didn't see you sent me one last night. I hope your ok.
hey Kali,
Glad to hear from you but sorry you are back if you know what I mean.
Just to let ya all know I am ok. I had some issues last night but feel beter today. I will try to fill ya in later.
Think I may be growing up. A while back half joking half for real I would turn to drinking to forget about my troubles.. Did not cross my mind last night. Well I was going to do a shot of JD before bed but I forgot about it and went to bed anyway..
Dr. Love
(used to ge Husband but I got tired if hearing about all the problems ladys here were having with their husbands)
Ok I am tired and do not feel much like typing so here is an e-mail I sent out...
So are you all ready for this?
Son and I went to the movies and hung around town for awhile then came home.
After a short time son went down the street of his buddy’s house. I am so glad I
Waited and used the 24 hour rule. I was so pissed last night.
Anyway I went onto wife’s "office” and asked her point blank. "Did you go
Through my night stand?" she said "NO I did not go through your nightstand, I
Have no reason to. The only thing I go into is your drawers when I put you’re
Washing away. I asked “are you being honest with me?" she said "yes". (something was missing for those of you that don't know)
So I let it go. I half believe her but it does not really mater anymore. But I am going to tear it apart tonight..
So the next thing I asked her was " Why are you still sleeping is son's room?
She said she has already talked to him about it and needs to straighten things
up in her office and get a pad for the bed in there.
So then I told her that MY room is MY space. She said she knows. I asked her
When she thinks she can get her stuff out. She said she does not want to move
The things in the closet; there is no place to put it. AND she does not want to
Move her dresser. I told her she can leave the stuff in the closet I do not need
That but I want you to move your dresser when you have things straighten out in
Her office. She said she prefers to use the shower in my room. (It is a nice
Shower, we remolded a few years back. I did not answer..(I am choosing my
Battles right now)
I then asked her one more time "Is this you want?" I do not want to get divorced
But I want to be married, you don't want to be married" she said " I am sorry
But I have no intimate feelings for you I have not had feelings for you the last the last 10
Years" I told her I respect her feelings (or lack of them) I can not make her do
Anything. I do not want to make her do anything. I asked if she wanted to try
Some MC. She said it would make no difference she has no feelings for me. I told
Her OK. But if she wants to try something the ball is now in her court. I told
Her I am going to tell our D's this week. (They are mine from a previous
Marriage but she did adopt them) I told her I am not going to tell my mom yet. I
Told her that next weekend when she is camping with her best friend and her
Cousin it will be a good time to tell them. She said ok. She also told me to let
Her know when I tell my mom so she can tell her mom.
We both agreed that nothing can really happen until she gets a job. I told her I
Know and then when she does get a job we need to bring down the debt. I told her
I am not sure what we are going to do with the dog but we will decide when the
Time comes. (The dog was bought for son but it became my dog) she told me where ever she ends up
She wants to take the dog because that is son's dog. (Again assuming she is
Going to have son but like I said I want to choose my battles right now.)
But it was a real nice conversation. I did not get emotional. I did not get
Angry or hurt. Wife cried though most of it...
There was more said but I am lousy at repeating stuff. But you got the jest of
It..
.............................................................
Years ago when I lost my leg I came to the reality that no matter how much I worried about it. No matter how angry or sad I got it was not going to grow back.
I had to learn to accept the things I can't change.
I slip now and then but this is one I will be dealing with now.
Strange but I am ok with it.
Dr LOve
I am sorry things look so bad DrL (I have been reading and following your sitch. Never posted to you before).
Accepting things we cant change is wisedom. And you will be OK.
Kalni
Doc,
Im so sorry, I really am. As much as you may be detaching, that's gotta hurt to hear.
Im praying that this gets over faster than slower. You need some space,lots of it.
Thinking of you..
Boy what a long strange trip it's been. I could not have picked a better title....
When I pick up my D tomorrow I am going to call the other one and arrange for a time to pick her up also.
I want to tell them both at the same time. It will be hard to tell them but I think once I tell them. all of this stuff that I have held inside will be free. In a way it will be a relief. I do not know how they are going to take it. The oldest will probably be ok but the youngest will probably take it hard.
At least when the family and friends start in asking questions I have nothing to hide. I will not say anything about the Affair just We tried for the last year to work things out but "Wife does not want to be married anymore" Ask Her.....
what a day to tell them huh .....Inauguration Day
The start of something new
Dr Love.
I'm confused, my understanding was that you were pushing the sep and the D because you don't want to be married to her anymore.
But in any case, what is the point of telling your Ds tomorrow? Are you officially separated yet? If not, I'm not sure how it helps to pull them into the drama other than reducing your stress. But there are other ways to get support...
Can you just let things be for awhile while you and W work out the separation? It seems like everyday you are trying to do something new to get a reaction from someone, W or someone close to her. These manipulations aren't going to cause W to get it and decide to warm your bed.
Finally, I guess you were making a wry joke, but I think it is a poor choice to tell Ds on Inauguration Day this year, especially if they were at all excited about the election. This could very likely be the most important inauguration day of their lifetime. For many, it will be a very moving and joyful day. Why risk infringing on that?
I have to agree with OT. Unless one of you is changing your physical address, there is no reason to tell them.
Again, sorry to hear about all of this Doc. I do hope you come to the decision that is best for everyone involved.
im not back because i have to be, just wanted to check in on all my friends.
im not back because i have to be, just wanted to check in on all my friends.
That's great Kali, ya had me worried..
OT.
Twice last night I wrote a looooog response and then deleted them. I was not going to respond at all. IT WAS NOT A JOKE.
But I read an E-mail from Nikki and she did get me thinking.
The only reason that I was going to tell D's today was because I had the opportunity, I was going to be picking up Youngest D who lives in the town I work in and bring her back to our town to see her friends. With all this stuff going on in my life the world outside has stopped turning, it does not really exist anymore.
So I was not thinking of others. I will hold off telling them.
Again unlike my wife I am going to take others well being ahead of my own and let my D's have this special day.(and son too).
Listen to the speech. I believe President Obama will talk about sacrifice and Talking RESONSABILITY for your own actions.
Hope everyone has a great day
Doc.
Have you separated your bank accounts and credit cards yet? If not, this is what you might want to do. It's a good first step. Even though she is currently financially dependent on you (since she doesn't have a job), this will encourage her to get one more quickly. It also makes the separation more solid which will help later on if you file for D. I think you can use it as a date of separation and will pay less alimony.
Thanks Root,
Nikki gave me some things to think about. Have not said anything to D's yet. It is finely raining here... Son and I are still going camping this friday.Will talk with wife before then.
BTW... EVERYONE keep your fingers crossed. I bought my first Super lotto ticket... 53 millions dollars...
Doc
I'm glad to hear you are holding off telling the D's until you've thought is over more. There's plenty of time. And if/when the time is right you'll tell them. I don't think there should be rush on that. You have plenty more to do (like separate finances!).
It's raining here in the south as well. I hope things dry out a bit before you head out camping. I'm sure you and your son will have an awesome time! Life is great...
Well another week is here..
W has an interview this week.
me
Great!!! Maybe she'll get the job! Help her get motivated and positive about this interview so she goes in and nails the job.
She will not talk about the job. she said she did not want to "jinx" it.
I will give a little encuragement but I think it is best just to give her space... Quiet time...keep son away for the day. Maybe make dinner.....Interv. is tuesday thatis all I know../
I may post some stuff that we talked about this weekend when I get home.
Doc
MY WIFE GOT THE JOB...
Temp work for now but they said it could become perm..
Doc
What will she be doing? Is she happy about it?
What will she be doing? Is she happy about it?
YES
She will be working for some satailte company that tracks stuff,Like shipments and things. (Kind of like Fed ex) She will be pulling data for them. It is a small company. Nobody does this for them now and they want to get it web based so customers can pull data.She has been taking these Web page creation classes and the boss is excited that she can do these things.
BUT........
nobody is there to do any paperwork for her hiriing so she has to wait until Monday to start. She said she is holding out until monday to be excited. But I can tell she just does not want to be disapointed if something falls through.
I stoped on the way home and bought her a bouqet of flowers and some sushi..(she likes sushi)
I got a hug..
I told her I was so proud of her and I know she can do it...
Later
Doc
Congratulations to both of you! I am very happy for you. This will help in a lot of ways. I'm glad that the classes she took helped her get the job. I hope that she will be happier now that she is working again.
Glad to hear about the job!
Doc,
That's wonderful news about W getting the job!
From personal experience (laid off from long time job at the beginning of 2003 until finding a temp job or two in late 2004 and 2005), I know how debilitating it can be to your self esteem. Especially when your spouse is in full hate mode towards you as mine was then!
Great that you took the initiative to celebrate her success and that she reciprocated.
I'm sorry for her that the company can't process her paperwork immediately and she will be very anxious until then - so please keep that in mind.
From a practical standpoint, I would suggest that W keep her resume updated (unfortunately you never know when you have to pull that out) and to network once the initial euphoria rush has abated.
Also - cool that both of you enjoy sushi. My D likes to make it on occasion but without any seafood. I heard that at our State Fair someone was peddling Deep Fried Sushi - just like they deep fry everything else. That is just pure wrong!!
Awesome news!!! I'm so happy for her and I'm sure she really appreciated the flowers and sushi. Even if she didn't say it I know she did (sometimes it's hard to "connect" and show too much appreciation when you know someone wants to leave... I know I've felt that way).
Anyhow, not working can be really hard on one's emotional state and self-confidence so this should help her outlook. Try to continue being positive and supportive, regardless of whatever else is going on. It will just make the whole family unit much nicer for you, your son and her too.
Thanks Root,
I think W is waiting until Monday to really get excited. I am trying to give her a WIDE berth right now. (Had to laugh I wrote BIRTH the first time).
I have not mentioned her promise about moving out of son's room this weekend. I was not going to push it with the new job coming up BUT.. Today she told me she was washing the sheets to the bed she was moving to.
In a way I feel bad that she will not move back to "our" bed. But given the fact that the room she is moving to is across from son's room I think it will be easier for him to adjust. And it is a start right?
I have all of these mixed signals going through my head right now. A week ago I was ready to give up but now a bunch of stuff seems to be falling into place. My Mom was taken off the pump machine today. She is doing much better. My youngest D who was living with her bum unemployed BF >>>
<<<<who sat around smoking pot while she went to work.. They broke up and D will be moving in with my mom. And of course W almost has a job.
My job is getting a little stressful but there is plenty of work and we are short people so I really do not think I will be laid off. But you never know. Whatever they want me to take on I do. These times you can't afford to tell your boss "I have no time" ....
Oh and NikB. I really did work for 5 years as an Ergonomics specialist. I really do give fantastic neck massages.. So I have been told.
Doc
I have all of these mixed signals going through my head right now.
That's normal. She will probably experience them too, but might not want to talk about it or admit it. I don't care how much a spouse insists they no longer "love" another that's not entirely true. When you have a history, and family together it's inside there. It might be hidden under junk... but it's there.
Yes Root I know,
I was worried that people here would take my post wrong this morning.
I was just posting thoughts going through my mind. I am not going to do anythings except make this transision as smoth as possible for W.
She got a little "snippy" last night while working on her computer. I am not taking it personal, I know even though she is acting calm on the outside she is real nervus inside.
I am going to let things coast right now.
W has been turned down so many times I really do not think she even expected to get this job.
She is trying to finish up her on line classes and studying things about the job so I am going to TRY to keep son out of her hair and not "disturb" her myself.
Doc.
Doc... Sorry im late... Great to hear about the job!! I hope this means some more positive changes for the both of you.
im here.. but mostly lurking..
Hey Tal,
No worries you have your own problems to deal with,
Journaling....
So I get a phone call from Youngest D she is crying hysterically. Telling me she wants to come home. I asked if her BF was hurting her physically.
She said no. I told her I would be right there.(I just got home from work. She lives in the town I work in so I had to drive back the 30 miles.. Longest 30 miles in my life.
So I get there and I was surprised to see the A.H B.F still hanging around. I did not do or say anything to him because I did not want to upset my Daughter anymore. I loaded her stuff on my truck and took her back to my Mom's house.
So At least I got her out of that sitch. On the way to my mom's she started saying things like.. "I remember when we went on that cross country trip in this truck" and "remember when we went to Disneyland in this truck" This was bringing back memories to me.
So on the home front?
It is strange. My W is starting to evolve back to her smiling ways. I can feel the "ICE" melting. I have given her plenty of space and helping out when I can.
MY palm (PDA) died yesterday and she wanted me to go pick up a new one. After I got back from getting D I went and picked one out. I did not realize it but I ended up getting the same one she has. She was over at my desk helping me set it up. I kept telling her "I know you have things to do don't worry I can do this" but she wanted to help. So I let her. We actually joked and laughed about some silly stuff that was happening.
So here is where I think I may be at.......
If I can continue to give her space. AND IF I can let go of the past and just move forward. I think I may be able to nourish our relationship back.
Of course I have not been pursuing or talking about R and this just may be a result of that. She May be thinking "he finely will leave me alone about R stuff"
I don't know..In a way I am disappointed because I was ready to move on. I was actually looking forward to not having to work on our M anymore. But......You see I already test drove this car.. I know what problems it has.... If go out and get a new one I would have to learn it's problems all over again.
So here The Doc sits going to "coast" for a week or so and see what happens
Later
Doc
Doc:
If I can continue to give her space. AND IF I can let go of the past and just move forward. I think I may be able to nourish our relationship back.
So here The Doc sits going to "coast" for a week or so and see what happens.
That sounds like a plan - keep doing what works and monitor.
I'm glad that youngest D is ok and away from her BF.
Just make sure she doesn't think that you are accepting the relationship where you just live as friends. One thing you wrote a while back....you said something about how she said that you would be thinking about other things if you were intimate with her, and she would, too, etc. That, to me, just says she is dealing with what she has done. Once you have an affair, you have taken away something from a marriage that can't come back...that innocence, etc.......what would help BOTH of you is to realize that, yes, this is gone...BUT, you can have a new, BETTER relationship. Albeit a different one, but a happy one. It just takes work. She went to retrouvaille with you. Were there speakers there she could call to talk to? One of my speakers was one I could relate to greatly. She may benefit from talking to her.
Sorry about the long one paragraph. Busy morning.
you just live as friends. One thing you wrote a while back....you said something about how she said that you would be thinking about other things if you were intimate with her, and she would, too, etc. That, to me, just says she is dealing with what she has done. Once you have an affair, you have taken away something from a marriage that can't come back...that innocence, etc.......what would help BOTH of you is to realize that, yes, this is gone...BUT, you can have a new, BETTER relationship.
WDID,
YOU are so right. I NEED to get past this mostly. You see My W did have an affair with this guy BEFORE we were married also. SO in reality he had sex with her before me.
That is what I tried to tell her. If he was going to leave his wife for her he would have done it 27 years ago..
Not sure if she undersood this but that is what I was trying to tell her when I said I woold not be thinking about "them two having sex" I would be thinking " I got her back" meaning someting / someone I lost is mine agian.. Understand? and that I could rebuild my trust as long as it did not happen agian.
Doc
Doc,
I think you've got the right game plan going. Just give her space and make every interaction with her enjoyable without any R talks.
That's what I've been doing and it attracted my W back home. We still sleep in the same bed and it's been okay so far and my next step is to work on the physical stuff.
One step at a time is what seems to work best.
But......You see I already test drove this car.. I know what problems it has.... If go out and get a new one I would have to learn it's problems all over again.
You hit the nail on the head with this one!!!! Quite a few of my D friends have learned this one the hard way. Yeah, it's perfect and wonderful for the first year or two, but eventually it's just a similar set of problems and sometimes MUCH worse.
Interestingly, the ones it seems to hit hardest are those who expect things to be better. The ones who are realistic and understand it won't necessarily be better, (just "different") seem to do better.
Have I taken a step backwards?
Ok Wife sat down with me at the dinner table. ( I brought home some KFC).
We talked about her mom a little. (I was over her mom's house working in her garden earlyer today.
I reminded W that her mom said W was going to take her shopping this weekend. Wife got a little upset Saying she needed to wash the sheets and get "her room" ready and wanted to go buy some clothes for her new job yada yada yada...
SO I told her if she wanted to hold off until next weekend to move out of son's room it would be alright with me.
NOW remember I have not said anything to W all week about moving out of son's room or any R Stuff .. So she was doing thins kind of on her own.
When I said she could wait she said "That would really help me out"
So I was not being weak. I just wanted W to be as rested and comfortable as possibe when she shows up to work on Monday.(she has not worked in over a year)..
But did I lose ground here? any imputs?
Doc.
P.S Wife seems realy at ease around me since our last talk.
What's a week in the scheme of things. It's obvious that she now places importance on the things you say. She was going to do it even though it was difficult for her. Just make sure it does happen soon. Your son needs his right to privacy.
thanks Sara,
It means alot comming from you. I know you get frustrated with me sometimes for letting things go. But like I said I want to coast this week and this would just be one more thing to "stress about" plus I think she would maybe project her stress on me "making her do it". Even though she was doing it with out a word from sme since out talk..
Night
Doc
I think it's being kind. You are being considerate about her starting her new job and want to make sure she's not too overly stressed (and it IS stressful starting a new job!). I think it was very generous of you, and by not adding to her stress at a stressful time things will be better for everyone in the household. The following week she'll feel more calm about her job and any family changes will be a smoother transition.
I don't think that's weakness, it's logic!
Journaling....
SO this weekend went by great. W and I have been getting along really well. Almost like before all this crap happened. Of course I have not talked any R and I did give her a reprieve on moving out of son's room until next weekend so she can prepare for her first day a work Monday.(has not worked in over a year). I did buy her a nice pen to use on her first day at work. I was going to give it to her tonight but decided to just put in on her car seat so she will see it in the morning.
I actually had a dream last night about some intimacy happening between wife and me. I have not had a dream like that in over 2 years. Today I had a thought of asking W if instead of getting me something for my B-day this month if she would go to the movies with me and see "Fireproof" but I am not sure yet. I am kind of stuck in a quandary. I have tried so many times to fix my old Marriage... to fix our old relationship and nothing has worked. I am thinking If I could just let go of the past... not talk R at all but just keep building on what seems to have started this last week.... Maybe... just maybe a new R will rise from the ashes of the old.
Like forget about rebuilding the old marriage. Just start over fresh.
I think it would work... The only problem I will have is the elephant that was always in the room would just move to the inside of my head. It is something that needs to be resolved eventually... but maybe I could put it aside for now and build on our relationship and then when it is stronger W and I will be able to deal with it.
Wife has issues also and hopefully I can help her out. I feel her relaxing a little more around me. We are talking allot about "nothing" this weekend. I mean this is good because before we only spoke to each other about things that needed to be talked about.
Well got ta go
later
Doc
Give her the pen and get your thank you. She might think Santa put it in her car.
Fireproof is now on video. You can buy it. Not sure if you can rent it.
I think about the worst thing you could do right now is to get a movie with an agenda, especially one as in your face as Fireproof. If you think the premise of Fireproof (loving your wife for 40 days to save your M) is a good one, then try it yourself on your own without saying a word to W. Don't shove the message movie down her throat.
W is warming up no doubt in part because she got a job. But I think even moreso because you have stopped breathing down her neck and stopped looking for every possible opportunity to trigger something that will "Shake her up" and "make her see the light."
On the other hand, I think you hit upon about the best thing that you can do right now as well. Your idea about simply starting fresh is a great. And you are right that her issues and your issues would both have to be dealt with if you get into a strong stable R that you want to continue. But look at it this way, the exact same thing is true for each of you even if you start fresh with a new person rather than each other. Changing partners isn't going to make the problems go away. Worked through they will have to be eventually in a successful long term R. But, if you were dating someone new, you wouldn't burden your new R with those problems, you would give it a chance to grow. May as well do the same for your M, no?
Doc,
DD's rented Fireproof the the other night. I agree with OT, I think you should watch it on your own and see what you think. Then perhaps you might want to get the book that goes along with the movie. I truly did think of you when I saw the movie. I really think you could benefit from watching this movie by yourself. I have included a link to the book that they talk about in the movie. Watch the movie and see what you think.
http://www.fireproofthemovie.com/resources/
Thanks everyone,
Well Sara I did give W the pen last night. I actually got a little teary telling her how proud I was that she never gave up.
I told her the pen was from son and me.
She did thank me for it. (I was hoping for a least a hug)
But I did get some pleasure from watching her try it out checking out the different features. I really do think she liked it. allot of the presents I have given her in the past she just put down or gave it to our son.
You know Yoyo and OT, I have watched parts of the movie on line. I get emotional every time I do. And Dam% you OT. Why am I so transparent to you? I guess I was kind of hoping a light would come on in W's head watching the movie.
So you are right I will rent it and watch it myself.
AND I do think you are right (again) ot about "letting go" of the past at this time. I have seen a change in W this last week.
I almost left a note for her this morning wishing her luck on her first day at work but decided not to because of my "breathing down her neck and stopped looking for every possible opportunity to trigger something that will "Shake her up" and "make her see the light."
So the only thing that I want to do in regards to the last R is get her out of son's room this weekend. I will not bring it up unless I see no activates in this direction by Saturday.
I agree OT I think that if I can set my mind to a "fresh start" mode, if I want to stay in this relationship this is the best way to go about it.
Need to get to work so have a great day everyone
Doc
Update........
Ok so I needed to pick up something at the store at lunch break. I walk in and there at the front door is a movie stand. Right in front was "Fireproof". The only one left..So I bought it.
Doc
Lol, so now you have something to watch when you are bored and *alone* :-)
So I got home from work and started watching the movie. Very inspiring... I got misty eyed during the rescues, I got misty eyed during the love dares. (They were Manly tears).. I saw allot if myself in both characters in the movie.
The movie ended and my W got home about 10 min's later. I had made sure son had his homework done and I had all the dishes clean.
She opened the door and I said "There she is. How's my working woman doing?" she said "I'm tired" I said "I bet, How did it go?"
She said she read allot and it was kind of boring today because nothing was set up for her.
But then she stood there and told me all about it for the next half hour. She was trying to not act excited but I could tell she was.
Then her sister called and wanted to know how it went and then the phone rang again and the caller ID said it was her friend. She kind of went GRRRRR. (She reminded me of a kid at his B-day party having to keep getting up to answer the door. Like acting like it bothered him but knowing he was excited to do it. Ya know what I mean?
So after I told wife I was going to the book store. When I got there.... YOU GUESSED IT.. They had ONE copy of "Fireproof" left. I got it. Soooo Yes I am going to take the challenge.... 40 days............what do I have to lose?
Doc
All good, just don't "accidentally" leave the book or video lying around...
lol oldtimer knows you well. I'm glad the movie inspired you....you'd have to be dead inside for it not to really. Your W sounds like she is getting in a good place. Her depression affects all of her being. THis may help.
All good, just don't "accidentally" leave the book or video lying around...
I put the movie away in the cabinet and I am keeping the book in my jeep..
Going to hold off on any love dare right now. Going to let W get settled and I am going to enjoy the new attitude wife seems to have. She really seems to have come out of the semi coma she has been in these last two years, Smiling, laughing…enjoying herself...
NO Pressure right O.T.......
Ok OT....
Should I "skip" Valentines Day?
Doc
Why decide today?
But generally, if you have to ask, then yes, skip it.
If you can't treat your wife like your lover on Valentines Day, then all it is is a sad reminder of what your R should be, but isn't.
No, do not skip Valentine's Day. A box of chocolate or a few flowers are not that expensive and it makes a woman feel good. She is not likely to throw it in your face. Just because she said she doesn't want to have sex doesn't mean she doesn't still want to be a person who counts in your life.
Oh, I thought that the status of their R was that they were separated and planning the steps to D. I didn't realize that had changed.
OT,
These are subtle differences that occur in the mind of our friend, the doc. They are still married and living together, and he would like nothing better than for her to admit to feeling something stir within her for him. He is working on both mentally separating and moving to divorce while simultaneously doing the Fireproof love dares. Our sweet doc just wants some warmth and attention. If it can't come from his wife, then he understands that the day will come when he has to look elsewhere for it. But that day is not before February 14 of this year.
So my advice is to be nice and warm to the woman in the house. She finally has a smile on her face. Things could improve at home. But to not notice Valentine's day would ensure that things will not improve at home.
I agree with Sara. A small gesture (nothing too huge/pushy) isn't going to hurt - but the lack of any gesture sends a much bigger and more negative message.
I agree with Sara and Rob as well FWIW.
Just act natural Doc.
Oh, I thought that the status of their R was that they were separated and planning the steps to D. I didn't realize that had changed.
OT,
I am surprised by now that you did not know I am one screwed up individual.
Two years ago when I stared here I swore I would not be here two years from then.. Here I am.
I WAS ready to throw in the towel. I was kind of looking forward to move on. It felt so right to give W my ring back. But something happened.
Maybe it was the fact that I did finely "detach". Maybe it was the last conversation we had about our marriage that I said some mean things that have been boiling inside me for so long that I had to get out.(I feel bad now having said those things).
My wife in these last two years has evolved from my enemy to a woman that was like the "bubble boy" she had this force field around her. And the pressure built up even more when I asked for the separation.
That was a strange week. I felt relief that I was moving on but W's bubble just got thicker. Then during the last conversation I heard her say to me. "I Love you, but not intimately". This was the first time in two years that she said the words "I love you" before it was always.. "I don't have those feeling for you anymore" Or the "I love the OM". Even though my words were hurtful during that conversation I think she finely heard me also. She said she did not want a divorce.
We last agreed to just continue on the path we are on and see where it takes us. I agreed but insisted that she moves out of son's room. She also agreed to this.(This is supposed to happen this weekend).
But like you have been telling me all along to "give her space" since I have she is opening up. She actually called me at her lunch break on her first day of work. She is smiling again. Weird thing last night before bed she said.” I need to go wash my face" Meaning she needed to go remove her makeup before bed. I had not realized that I have also not heard those words in a long time.
AND now I am dying to put my ring back on. I know it is in her jewelry box with her ring. I wish she would have left it on top of her dresser where I had left it so I could just put it back on. Watching the movie "fireproof" did not help me move on either. I have not started the "Love dares" yet but I am reading the book. I feel a change coming over me. I feel patience running through me. Not in just my R but in my life in general. I had some problems with my son today after school. He was supposed to be home at a certain time to start his homework before his mom got home and he was not. He left a defiant note questioning me about my request. Instead of my usual. YOU WILL DO THIS I AM YOU FATHER... attitude. I walked over to where he was and talked to him on our walk back. I asked him what I should do. I asked him what we could agree on. And if he did not do this, what should he thinks the repercussions should be.
WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME?
Thanks Sara and Rob and Saffie, I so want to start back on the path to a new R. I don't want to fix the old Marriage. That one died. Maybe I will start my "Love dares" on V day...
Take care
Doc
Well, that certainly changes everything. If you are currently both in the M together, then of course it is a good idea to pay attention to Valentines day! Except, I'd now go *further* than others suggested. A box of chocolates and a card is nice, sure. But it can be disappointing. A let down. It really isn't very personal. It may not show much concern for *her*.
Make your gift special. It doesn't need to be expensive, but it does need to be about her. Make it show that you really thought about *her*. For instance, my H got me a Russel Stover box of chocolates with a cute attached stuffed animal. OK, I thought, truly, sweet I guess, but kind of a bummer. At first. For, when I opened the box of chocolates, he had replaced all the chocolates with pieces of my very favorite kind of dark chocolate. How amazingly thoughtful and what a great way to make the gift about me.
Another example. Often books and CDs that are gifts are really about the giver -- what the giver likes, what the giver wants to share with others. Contrast this with a present I recently bought SIL. I don't know her that well, but over the summer I was surprised to learn that she was a passionate master gardener. For Christmas I bought her a book that was the correspondence between two English master gardeners who had a lifelong friendship built on their gardening bond. She loved it. Whether or not she ever reads it or likes it, it made her feel special. It was a gift about her.
Hey Doc,
Glad to hear that your life is going better. Why wait until Feb. 14th to do the Love Dare? From my understanding, the dares start out small and increase.
As far as the Valentine thing. Why not have a Valentine Dinner for your wife, son, and MIL? It could be something as simple as take out pizza. Get each one of them something small that has meaning to them and a sweet not mushy cards. There will be no pressure on your wife, but she will see what a kind and caring man you are.
Oh, please do something special for your W as your W, not something mundane, not something for her as one of the gang. That would just highlight the problems with emotional and physical intimacy that you are having in your M. Don't be afraid to show that you see *her* and that you love *her*.
Fine, get candy, a card, and pizza for the gang. All nice things no doubt. But don't forget something that says that *she* is special in her uniqueness. Isn't that after all the point of Valentine's day? To show your romantic partner that you are really all bout them?
For once I have to agree with OT.
I am giving her "her space" right now. and I will continue this until V-day. I will then continue to give her "space" but also start my "love Dare"
Like I said before I no longer want to fix the "Old Marriage" I want to start new. I am looking at this "giving her space" time like when your computer crashes. You need to turn it off and let things settle before you turn it back on.
I am reading the lovedare book. even though I am not doing the dares there is alot of information to think about. A few weeks ago I was ready to move on. kind of looking forward to dating agian. I think I have moved on.. and my dating.... will start with my wife..
Doc.
thanks for all of the input. It really helps to see all sides..
My Wife wore her wedding ring to work today..
Doc
Uh-oh, I hope there wasn't some sexy guy there giving her the eye!
Great Sara,
As in secure as I am I don't need those thoughts running through my mind...
She did mention that she was the oldest person there. The company only has about 20 employees. Mostly Men. YOUNGER than me....
So, did you put yours on?
I don't have it.She does.. It's in her jewlery box
wow, that's interesting. Try not to mention it. I've been following your threads for awhile now, just never posted to you. Maybe you should start Love Dare a couple of days before V day.. isn't there one about giving a gift to them in the beginning? Maybe you could coincide that with Vday and use the rest to "soften" her up?
There is always direct and honest:
"I feel stupid and ashamed about taking off my ring. I acted too hastily out of anger and I'm sorry. I love you and I feel like your husband. I miss my ring and I'd like to wear it again."
Sandy,
Nope My lips are sealed...(sure helps with my attatude)
.....Now ya got me thiking OT....
I think OT's suggestion is a good one. Could be a Valentine's day gesture?
There is always direct and honest:
"I feel stupid and ashamed about taking off my ring. I acted too hastily out of anger and I'm sorry. I love you and I feel like your husband. I miss my ring and I'd like to wear it again."
Unless her jewelry box has a big padlock on it, I don't think you need to even do that. Just put it on, man.
It's your ring, your finger, your decision, so be decisive!
Rob,
We had an "incident" where something became "Missing" from my nightstand. Unlike "the olden days" when we were so open to each other we are not back there yet. for now we have evolved into respect for "her space" and I want respect for "my space".
So even though yes it is my ring. I am respecting her space at this time.
Heck if I ask for it back and she refused me then I'm not sure I would I want it back...
But thanks for your input buddy....like the title says... What a long strange trip it's been....
Doc
Now we are back to where you were before, afraid to bring anything up. Have you taken sign language class yet? Just point to her finger, and then your finger, and then to the jewelry box. She will get the message.
Lol, she might think he wants her to put hers back ;-p
So it was raining today, So I made some home made chicken soup and new York cheese toast and had the fire place lit when W got home from work.
After she ate. (She said the soup was delicious) and had settled down to watch her soaps I asked her if she could pause it for a moment.....
Wife,
Last week I was angry and frustrated, and I said and did some mean things that I now regret. I am sorry for saying those hurtful things to you and I am sorry I gave you my wedding ring back. I feel naked without it.
Wife : "there is no reason to be sorry"
Me : "I said some mean things and I am sorry"
Wife : "That's ok... Your ring is in my jewelry box"
Me : "Thanks"
Doc
Sounds good. How did it feel? Pretty intimate to be so direct and honest?
OT,
To be TOTALY honest with you..... Wife may have been tired from work but her attitude kind of seemed "As IF". When I asked for my ring back.
But her attitude is not my concern right now. I am going to do the Love dares anyway. I have all along been doing the first two days.
Day 1: Love is patient
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
—Ephesians 4:2 NIV
TODAY’S DARE
The first part of this dare is fairly simple. Although love is communicated in a number of ways, our words often reflect the condition of our heart. For the next day, resolve to demonstrate patience and to say nothing negative.
Day 2: Love is kind
Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
—Ephesians 4:32
TODAY’S DARE
In addition to saying nothing negative to your spouse again today, do at least one unexpected gesture as an act of kindness.
I have not said anything negative to W since that "talk" two weeks ago.
As for the acts of kindness.. I have had all the dishes washed, son's homework done and Dinner ready when she got home from work.
I also have been doing some extensive house cleaning.
It may be cheating but I am planning on starting day 3
Day 3: Love is not selfish
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor.
—Romans 12:10
TODAY’S DARE
Whatever you put your time, energy, and money into will become more important to you. It’s hard to care for something you are not investing in. Along with restraining from negative comments, buy your spouse something that says, “I [...]
On V day....and continuing from there Last night when I went to bed my ring was on top of her jewelry box. Her jewelry box has red velvet on the top and with my ring on top if reminded me of how you would display a crown or trophy.
It was kind of funny when Yoyo said that the guy in the movie made her think of me.. She was more accurate than she thinks...
The flowers I got W when she got the job looked just like the first set he got his wife...
But Valentines day one's WILL be like the Roses.....
Like I said that I was going to keep doing the love dares without thought of receiving anything in return.. At least for 40 days.. But in the back of my mind someone wrote to me and asked.....
Has Wife’s attitude changed these last few weeks because I "canceled" the separation or because I gave her my ring and she was relieved that I have given up? No more pressure?????
Doc
You would have to do a controlled experiment with 100 wives. 50 of them you would give the ring back and two days later have a team of professional psychologists measure their happiness factors. The other 50 you cancel the separation, and two days later measure the happiness factor. You will need to control for all other outside stimili, such as new jobs, layoffs, car accidents, phone calls from family, etc.
Sara,
Working in the measurement industry like I do I have found that any graph, Chart or data can be made to have the outcome you want..Half full "man we lost half our product".. Half full.."Wow we are half way to the top"..
I am not going to worry about W's "motives" at this point. I have work to do now.. A direction to take... at least for 40 days... well 38 days.....
When I start day 3 I will be updating what I did and what the outcome was...
Let's see what happens this weekend.. W is supposed to move out of son's room....
Doc
All this statistical talk reminds me of the card I just sent my sis for Valentines.
It says something like (sorry I don't remember the exact numbers)... 40% of wives surveyed think their @ss is too big, another 40% think their @ss is too small. (Open the card)... and the other 20% say they would have married him anyway.
Journaling....
Today after I got home I called wife at work and asked her if she would rather have me go get take out pizza or make some home made BBQ pork fried rice and pot stickers.. She said she would like the pork. So I set out and got everything I needed and made dinner. It was almost ready when she got home.
My Daughters came by and they talked for awhile. Wife was telling them that she has to listen to the 20 yo guys at work talk about girls all day. After they left wife came in and told me that she was going to the movies with our son and her sister tomorrow..(Here is where I blew it) I said "thanks for the short notice" ya I know.....NEGATIVE
Although love is communicated in a number of ways, our words often reflect the condition of our heart. For the next day, resolve to demonstrate patience and to say nothing negative to your spouse at all. If the temptation arises, choose not to say anything. It’s better to hold your tongue than to say something you’ll regret.
I thought about this right when the words were coming out of my mouth. So I back slid on my "dare" but hey I caught it right? I am learning.
Doc
Cute card Root. I don't think I'll get that one for my H though.
Hey sweet cheeks!! Sorry I haven't been around, more of a lurker these days, although H has been on the computer non-stop, I haven't been able to do anything but work.
Sometimes we can't help the way we feel, and I think it IS ok to show that. I do find that I am too sensative, but im learning to overcome that. It work in progress. I know how sensative you are, but im just like that, and I probably would have said the same thing. It over don't worry about it, You know it probably wasn't the best thing to say, but I do think she needs to realize once in awhile that she does say Inconsiderate things. Sara might hit me, but its ok
Hey Tal,
Hope things are going ok with you. Thanks...I am not worried about it. I let it go already. I think being "aware" is important. This morning on my way to work I found myself slipping back into the "past" again I caught myself.
I know W & I are not as close to reconnecting as I thought / hoped we were getting. But I am not going to try to figure her out.
Seems part of the time the wall comes down.. Mostly when we are alone..And then it pops back up when wife and I are around others. That is when I have my problems also. I start those evil thoughts about "if they only knew" and then I am sure my attitude must change a little on the outside. I am fighting those thoughts.. They are happening less and less. Saffie knows it is hard for me to be still. It's hard for me not to have an agenda. And when I see something is not working I change lanes too fast.
Once I start the "love dares" I will at least be occupied for 38 days...
This weekend W is supposed to move out of son's room. I am going to stand my ground on this and try sooooooo hard NOT to say ANYTHING negative to Wife.
Take care.
Oh ya we Finley got rain.... MIL new lawn I planted just might t stay green this summer......
Take care of yourself (I'm not there to do it for you)
Doc
There's a difference between letting people know how you feel and nasty negative sniping (great job catching yourself doc!).
Compare:
"Thanks for the short notice," laden with sarcasm.
"I'm glad you have a fun outing plan, yet I feel a little hurt about the short notice, like I don't matter," said directly and sincerely.
But, since Doc is deeming this a new dating R, his new prospective GF shouldn't really need to give him notice about such things right now ;-)
OT,
I switched Gears right away. I think it would have just been better if I had to say anything at all would have been. "That sounds like fun."
It's hard "suppressing" things I have "learned" from the past with a new GF or not. I was so trusting...Even if I was "dating" someone New / Different. I would remember (like the first time you touched a hot pan and got burnt) How trusting I was with her trip and how she called me with the OM right there.
But that is the past right? BTW I did burn my arm the other night on the oven while baking a pie. The next day when I was putting in a frozen Pizza Getting burned again was the first thing I thought about..LOL
Nope, tonight it will be just me and my Dog. I will wish them well when they leave and ask all about it when they get back...
Later
Doc
Agreed and sounds like a good plan.
Journaling.......
The Doc continues to evolve.....
So yesterday W took her mom to the hair dressers. I stayed home and cleaned carpets. When Wife got back she said her mom jokes about hopping into my Mustang (I keep it in her Garage, she has no car) and coming over to see me because I was going to be all alone that night when W and son went to the movies. I laughed and said "ya right"
I told her I was going to go over her Mom's house on Sunday to work in the Mustang. W said that she needed to go over there also because she needed to clean up her mom's kitchen.( MIL eye sight is going) and then W said that when she was over there she had to use MIL bathroom and it was "discussing". I told wife that when I went over there I would clean the bathroom.(Wife HATES cleaning bathrooms) she said that would be nice.
So wife left for the movies and I told them both to have a good time. I stayed
When they got home I asked if they had a good time and they both said yes. I asked if it was a movie that I should see in a theater or was it on that I could just wait for it to come out on DVD. Wife said she did not think it was a movie I would like.(they went to see twilight).
So this morning I got up and went to MIL house to clean her bathroom.
I am amazed how when you become aware of the words you use how they stand out. I mean most of us say things (automatically). But with the Doc trying to become a better person I am not only listening to others. I am also listening to myself.
While over MIL house she started telling me about a Nephew that was fixing up her brothers p/u that he inherited. (This was a really nice truck when he got it but it has now sat for 6 yrs and deteriorated). I said "that was a nice truck already when he got it,if he would have taken care of it he would not have had to fix it up again"
OK AFTER I said this I thought.... why could I have not just said "that’s great"? Why did I have to say the NEGATIVE?
I am on a journey now to improve myself. They say that nobody can change anybody else.. But I have to disagree. I am finding that when I have changed the way I have been saying things and acting around situations the other party also has a changed attitude.
Well got ta go
Stay tuned in for more of
"As the Doc's world turns"
Doc
Journaling.......some more...
In the reading I have been doing the book said that in the corridors of your heart there is a room called the "Appreciation room"
On the walls of this room a written kind words and phrases describing the good attributes of my wife.
Written here are words that she is a great cook, great in math, she has Beautiful eyes, Pretty Smile and all of the things I appreciate in her.
But down the dark corridor of my heart there is another room.” the Depreciation Room".
On the walls of this room are the things that bother and irritate me about my wife. Written on the wall of this room is the OM phone Number, I have posted the Pictures of my wife with the OM. I have written things like "she doesn't care" and "they are a pair now"..
I have been going back and forth between these to rooms for the last 2 years. I never realized it.I would some how wander into the Depreciation Room and spend some time there. Whenever I spent time in the Depreciation Room I have been ready to give up. I was that much closer to a Divorce. Luckily I did leave this room every now and then and went back to the Appreciation room and would try again.
They say with knowledge comes wisdom. Since I have read this I now realize what I was doing. What has happened these last few days is that I have become aware if these two rooms. I still forget and I do open the door to the Depreciation Room. But as soon I looked in I realize where I am and close the door quick.
This has helped me keep my PMA.
I am not there yet, I am far from it. But I have seen a small change in my wife.
This weekend she was supposed to move out of son's room. I asked her if she was planning on sleeping there tonight. (I noticed she had not set up the other bedroom yet) she said she has not had time. I told her "ya I know, now that you are working you get home late" she said she was going to work on it during the week. I said that's fine I was just asking...
Tonight before I go to bed I am going to tell her
"You know you can always come back to our room. It is a big bed and I promise I will not bite ya"
Later
Doc
Morning everyone,
Some "different" things happened last night.
1. Before Wife left for her mothers she gave me instructions on what time to put the dinner she prepared in the oven if she was not home in time what to add and when to do it.
I did my duties as instructed.
When Wife got home from her mothers, Dinner was ready to be taken out. I walked into the kit ion and Wife was opening a bottle of wine. She asked me if I wanted wine with dinner also. (I usually don't have wine with dinner but I thought the offer was nice so I said yes.
She proceeded to tell me that she was not sure if this was the same wine because she could not quite remember the name but the wine she had on her last "girl's night out" was really good.
She sat at the dinner table with me and she talked about her job. She talked about her hair cut she got that day and how she did not like the last one she got and how this was much better. I told her I liked it because it was longer in front and the last was short in front and made her face look..........then I caught myself about to say something Negative and as I searched for the right words.. She said "fat". I said well not really but this hair cut does frame your face better. (Fat was what I was thinking.)
I told her that this was a really good cut of meat. She said thanks and THEN thanked me for putting it in the oven for her. I said no problem. Now this might not sound like a big deal to you all but.. Wife has very rarely thanked me for anything. IT's like everything I do around the house, her moms, and my moms is my duty to do. So this was a new experience for me to be thanked.
So I was a great listener at dinner... later
2. So One of Our fish had been Sick all day. I knew it was not going to make it and just hoped it would be over before I went to work. I did not want Wife to have to deal with it, and I could not just take it out of the tank because son was worried and if I just put it out son would be hurt.(this was a large fish. It weighed 10 oz).
Well after dinner I noticed wife standing next to the tank rubbing the side of the glass where the fish was laying. Hit me strange because wife has had a "as if" attitude towards these fish in the past.
Anyway a little while later I noticed the fish had died. Wife and son came over to the tank as I scooped it up and put it into a plastic bag. Son wanted to bury it in our garden. Wife was holding the bag in the palm of her hand and was petting the side if the fish (through the bag). You could tell she really felt bad that the fish had died.
I have not seen this type of reaction in wife in a long time. Up until now it seemed that nothing else in the world mattered to her except her....
It was late so I suggested we put the fish into the freezer until today and then we can bury it after I get home from work.
Well that is about it for now
Stay tuned....
Doc
"Tonight before I go to bed I am going to tell her
"You know you can always come back to our room. It is a big bed and I promise I will not bite ya""
Doc,
I think this is a great idea. It at least opens the door to that possibility, a door that she may think is closed. I have wondered whether her dragging her feet in terms of moving into her "own room" has to do with her not wanting to have her own room in an official way, or has to do with you trying to make her do it.
You letting her know that you open open to an "our room" allows her that opportunity and removes the pressure.
I think this is a great idea. It at least opens the door to that possibility, a door that she may think is closed. I have wondered whether her dragging her feet in terms of moving into her "own room" has to do with her not wanting to have her own room in an official way, or has to do with you trying to make her do it.
You letting her know that you open open to an "our room" allows her that opportunity and removes the pressure.
OT,
I had the same thought...but with the fish and all I did not have the opertunity last night. I will "open the door" today...
doc
doc,
Good luck with that, I hope that she is willing.
Dr. Love,
I like how you are reframing your perspective about things, and trying to be more positive and supportive in the way you behave (regardless of how she behaves), and how both of you are making changes. It's really nice to read. I think no matter what happens this sounds like a time of growth.
You are seeing things differently. I can hear it in your words. You're on the right track, Doc. I'm praying for your wife to start seeing clearer, too.
Thanks everyone for the encouragements....
Journaling.....
Last night got a little "hectic”. I told you my son's fish died and I promised him we would go get another one.(ended up 2) when I got off of work. He is one picky guy... We went to the two pet stores in town and there was nothing he liked so we went to the next town and found 2 he liked... but this is where the problem started. When we got home there was a message on the phone that my D stopped by to drop off some tax stuff for my Wife to look at for her. Then I realized that one of the fish needed the tank heated to at least 72 degrees. I checked it and the tank was only 65..(great)
Wife worked late last night and was not in a good mood. I did not want to mention sleeping in "our "room when she was in this state. I went to bed and then wife came in and asked how come I did not tell her D called. I told her I was sorry but I forgot with all the commotion going on. I did not want the sleeping arrangements to go on any longer without the offer so I e-mailed her this morning....
Morning Wife,
I hope you slept better last night. I want to apologies for forgetting to tell you XXXXXXXXX called. I have been trying to get into the habit of writing it on the board when someone calls for you.
But.....
Yesterday after driving Son all around looking for fish when I got home I needed to find out what temp the aquarium was. The fish we bought could not stay in the bag much longer. After I put the pool thermometer in the tank I found out it was only 65 degrees. I siphoned half the water out and was SLOOOWly pouring hot water into the tank to bring up the temp. I could not do this too fast because I could put the big Goldfish into shock. After getting the temp up to 70 I went over my mom's house to see if I could find the heater I gave Daughter. I couldn't so I went back home hoping that neither fish would die before I got a new heater..
Again I am sorry I forgot to tell you about the call.
I also wanted to let you know that my main concern is to get Son in his own room. I know that you have been busy and have not had time to fix the other bed.
You do have another option. I would have no problem if you wanted to come back to our room. I will not assume this means anything. After all we have slept in the same bed before and have done just that SLEPT.
If you can get used to my getting up 2 or 3 times a night to go to the bathroom I am willing to put up with your snoring.
Like I said I just want to get my Son on his own. Our bed is big and I am sure we can both fit.
You might want to start just by getting up and moving to our bed after I go to work so Son gets used to waking up by himself but this is totally up to you.
Please let me know you got this message and that you understand that I will not assume anything if you do this.
DocHer reply..
It is no big deal about the call. I left a message with her so at least she knows we got the message.
As far as moving out of son’s room, I’m eager to do that so I can, hopefully, start getting a decent night’s sleep. That means moving into my office because I need total quiet at night. As it is right now I wake up every 1 to 2 hours because of the dog, son or the annoying sound machine.
Time to get going to this stupid job.
WifeSo like I said I mostly wanted son on his own. I was so afraid to open up this e-mail thinking what it may do to my PMA that I waited until I got home from work.
It was not that bad after all. I am getting son on his own.
and maybe when wife gets more sleep she will be in a better place for "dating".
One thing I did learn is that I need to get rid of "My sound machine...LOL
take care everyone.... Thinking about you all
Doc
More Journaling.....
today was not a good day. I mean for me it was alright but when wife got home she agian was not in a good mood.
Wife: I don't think I am going to be there much longer
Me: why do you say that?
Wife: there is not much for me to do.
Me: do you mean the work they wanted you to do is almost done?
Wife: no I have a little more to do but they just want information pulled from the data and that's all
Me: Do you think you use this as a learning experience to learn on the job?
Wife: I don't want to write software, I hate this job, I hate the atmasphere (now starting to cry) I hate working with these young people, I hate it.....
I did not say anything after that because I felt no mader what I said it would not be right..
She asked if she could have some of the pizza I made and I said sure I can make another one. She took some and then went into her office to eat it. WHen the second pizza was done I brought her another piece..
Doc
You don't need to say something. Just let her vent to you. That's all she wants. She doesn't want you to fix it.
It's true. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.
Thanks
I just told her that if she needs someone to vent to i am here.
Thanks
I just told her that if she needs someone to vent to i am here.
one of the worst thing we do as men,is try to fix things.
That isn't what women want. They want us to HEAR them,
That's right. She wants you to understand how she isn't liking the job. Just listen to her. Ask questions to understand why she is unhappy about it, but don't try to fix it or give her ideas. That sucks she is not liking the job. I know she was really needing something good to happen in that area.
Just left a note for her this morning.....
Thinking about you....
(smile)
doc...
Everyone complains about their job (except me!!! LOL!!!!Yeah right...). Just listen, ask questions, show some empathy and let her vent. This is a great opportunity to work on listening/empathy skills).
Try not to take it too personally if your W has sleep problems. My H has them too and sometimes he'll put a sleeping bag on the floor or go down to the office to sleep. When he was "separated" from me just before the D, I even put an extra bed in our bedroom. She definitely should not be sleeping in your son's room. That's not healthy for your son. But a futon or "guest bed" in the office would be best (and, of course, appropriate for the separation).
Update.....
Son and I made a sign and hug it on the inside of the garage door. I made it so that when Wife opens the door to park inside the sign comes down on a string. It says:
Smile.(with the picture of a smiley face).. Your home sweet home now .... And we love you.. Son & Doc...
Ok I hope I do not get banned but I read something in this book and It means sooo much I think others can use it.....
"You cannot change your spouse. As much as you may want to, you cannot play God and reach into their heart and mold them into what you want them to be. BUT that's what most couples spend a large part of their time trying to do... change their spouse.
Insanity has been described as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. But isn't that what happens when you try to change your spouse?
You need to become a "wise farmer"
A farmer cannot make a seed grow into a fruitful crop. He cannot argue, manipulate, or demand it to bear fruit.
BUT he can plant the seed into fertile soil, give it water and nutrients, protect it from weeds and then turn it over to God.
Wow, this is deep. Doc is changing... The OM is becoming a distant memory. Watching my Wife grow is all I want to do now. The funny thing is that all I am doing is changing me. I am clearing myself of the weeds. Most of the "caring things" I have done in the past were a forms of manipulation.
I am not sure what is happening to me but it has had a dramatic affect on my life as a whole. At home, at work out in the public. Like I said before my mind and mouth are no longer on auto pilot. I think about what I am thinking. I analyze thoughts I have to see if they are worth my time to worry about. My words are chosen wisely. I say what I need to say without any added garbage. Any "side notes" peppered with snide remarks about issues that are not pertinent to the conversation..I am probably not making any sense to anyone but all I know is I really like what I am becoming.
Later
Doc
P.S
PLEASE do not ban me for the stuff from the book. Delete this post if you want but please do not ban me..
Thanks
don't think so
Wife just got home. When she came in she said that the sign made her laugh.... She then said.. "what are you guys tired of me comming home a grump? I told her no we just like to see her smile..
Your wife's reaction was so cute!!!!
You both made me smile.
I'm so happy for you.
This morning I turned the sign around so now she will see it when she leaves....
Last night I asked W how her day went she said better and then started in on all the problems at work. I did not understand half of what she was talking about but shook my head anyway. NO FIXING
Doc
Jurnaling....
It’s raining... I have the fire place lit...Son's homework done and I changed the sign in the garage..
Welcome home to Margarita Ville...
Yes Wife likes Margaritas and I have one ready for when she gets home.
Doc....
Update....
Wife came home with a smile on her face and asked "Where are the margaritas?. I said "coming right up" she said "when I saw that sign I thought..That sounds GREAT".
(2 points for Doc)
I am not trying to manipulate wife. What I am trying to do is both show her I am thinking about her and making coming home something to look forward to. (Providing fertile soil for my crop)
So tonight before bed I again will let her vent to me about her work....But tomorrow night Doc is going out GALing.... Saturday is day 3 of my love dare.......(I have read ahead to day 19)...
Tuesday I will find out if I still have a job but I am not worried. What I have no control over I have learned to let go..
Everyone have a great night
Doc
You sound great! I like your mental attitude and I like that you are having fun doing nice things for W. It's almost like "Pay it Forward" but with the people in your world.
Pay attention now, you are starting to understand something very important: detachment makes all the world of difference in how well you can love another person, and how intimate you can really be. Detachment isn't opposed to love and intimacy, it is instead part of better love and deeper intimacy.
it's friday again. time to move out of his room.
:)
Pay attention now, you are starting to understand something very important: detachment makes all the world of difference in how well you can love another person, and how intimate you can really be. Detachment isn't opposed to love and intimacy, it is instead part of better love and deeper intimacy.
Well said!
it's friday again. time to move out of his room.
I know... It’s a three day weekend. I will be moving the mattress son sleeps on that is on the floor to clean the carpets.....
No use putting it back in right?
Son will be back in his bed by Monday
Doc
Doc - you sound good
I think the fact that your W is now appreciating the things you are doing for her shows she and you have reached a great turning point.
Yep, keep doing what you're doing. You sound good.
I know it is cheating but day 3 of my love day is tomorrow..
Whatever you put your time, energy, and money into will become more important to you. It’s hard to care for something you are not investing in. Along with restraining from negative comments, buy your spouse something that says, “I was thinking of you today.”
Doc
Doc,
Nothing more to add except to keep things on a slow, positive pace. Enjoy the weekend!
It's valentines day.. I got up at 5:00 am to get my wife some roses. But at the store I started thinking that I am looking at this journey as "dating" my wife all over again since we were so close to a separation. I thought that if I gave roses to a woman that was unsure she wanted to date me right off it would scare her away. So instead I bought her a pink (her favorite color) Hydrangea, It came in a pink flower pot made to look like an old bucket. It had a small balloon heart on top that said "I love You" and had a bunch of hearts hanging from the branches. I bought a card that said "having you for a valintine makes me smile" It had a picture of a bull dog on the front with a big smile.
It was on the counter in the kitchen when she got up this morning. I was sitting at the table eating. She came in the kitchen and then turned around and walked right out. I thought to myself that I may have pushed our working on the marriage a little too far. I know in the past sometimes we are getting along great but if I push intimacy into the picture Wife would back off and become withdrawn again.
But I did not let this affect my attitude. I finished eating and then went into my shop to work on my jeep, I little while later she into the shop and said "thank you for the flowers, I really like them...I was half asleep when I walked into the kitchen before and I didn't even see them......
So she did notice, She liked them, She did not back off like in the past when I "pursued" her with something intimate and right now she is still happy.....and did not become withdrawn..
Today was a good day....
Doc
OT is sooooo right on about the detaching and intimacy. Glad to hear you are having a great weekend. Me too! And it's wasn't some earth shattering romance. I'm just happy in me and appreciate the people around me here and now.
Ok SARA.....
IT has been raining so son and I "camped out" in the living room by the fire place. Wife still did sleep in son's room anyway...BUT..Today she worked most of the day in her "office" fixing her bed....
So let me back track a little. Son and I slept in living room by the fireplace all night. I got up as usual 6:00am and showered and made breakfast. Son got up.( He usually sleeps in with Wife until 9:00 - 10:00am) at 8:00. I asked of he wanted breakfast and he said yes so I made it for him also. Wife got up about 9:30 and showered and then went into her office. Son went in to see her and she started grumping about all of the noise we were making and how she had to get up and put ear plugs in. I thought to myself 'here we go I will be getting the cold shoulder treatment today' But I was wrong. When I went to talk to her she acted 'normal" no remark about noise or ear plugs... Surprise surprise surprise....
So she did move her stuff out of son's room. I mentioned to son if he wanted to..him and I could go to the store and get some stuff for "his room". Wife piped up that she wanted to do that. I said that's fine.. If she wants to take him go ahead… Then she said she was too busy so I could do it. So son and I went and found a few things but not what he wanted so I told him tomorrow we can go into the next town and look. When I got home I told wife what we planed and told her either she can come along with us if she wanted or or if she wanted to take him by herself I am ok with that. Again she said would be too busy so I guess son and I will be going..
I was going to go to the coffee shop tonight for some me time and to read but......
Today’s dare..
Day 4: Love is thoughtful
Contact your spouse sometime during the business of the day. Have no agenda other than asking how he or she is doing and if there is anything you could do for them.
SO what I did was helped her clean son's room and then I cleaned the carpet in the family room and then she wanted me to clean the floor in the family room. So I was too tired.
This was really not a dare. I have always done this. Now tomorrow is a real dare....
Later
Doc
Doc,
How hard can it be to sleep in another room? My husband was sick one night this week, and I spent approximately 20 minutes cleaning my daughter's room, putting fresh linens on the bed, retrieving my toothbrush from the master bedroom, and voila! I had my own room. And it was so nice to sleep in a room alone, with fresh sheets, and my own bathroom, but I digress.
Sara Sara Sara....
Doc,
How hard can it be to sleep in another room? My husband was sick one night this week, and I spent approximately 20 minutes cleaning my daughter's room, putting fresh linens on the bed, retrieving my toothbrush from the master bedroom, and voila! I had my own room. And it was so nice to sleep in a room alone, with fresh sheets, and my own bathroom, but I digress.
Let's see....
How hard can it be to have an affair? (I couldn't but to some it is easy)
How hard can it be to not have an affair? (I find this one easy, but for others it is not so easy or none of us would be here)
How hard can it be to forgive your spouse? (This one is hard but I am getting there)
How hard can it be to not to kick the OM A$$..
Ok I will confess if he lived closer it would be harder...
Sara, I am trying not to judge others. This journey has me really working on myself. I know it was meant to help my marriage but for some reason I am questioning my own thoughts and actions. Especially on judging others. The woman I work with may come into work and be a real Bi%ch. But how do I know what her home life is like? How would I know if she just found out her husband was cheating on her? Or her husband is abusive? I do not know what is causing her attitude so I can not judge her.
I do not know what was so difficult with this move either. I am not a head doctor.. (Though I played one on TV).. Maybe this was hard on wife because now she is "alone". Maybe sleeping in son’s room gave her comfort.
Maybe now it will be easier for her to seek comfort in me..
I just got back from taking son out to get stuff for his room. WE had some great Father Son time / talks. Even though wife before said son was not too happy about her moving out of his room….. you could sure have fooled me. This morning (his first night in his own bed) he told me he slept GREAT. He was telling me what he wanted in his room. We took down all the "baby posters"... He wants the night light taken out... he seems really happy to get his own room back..
So yes Sara it might have been easy for you but for some reason it was not for my wife.. So I do give her credit for moving out of her comfort zone. This move was for all of us. All three of us are going to benefit from this...
Now I want to commend you on cleaning up your husbands.."Mess" this is another area that some find easy others don't. I personally do not like it myself but when I was raising my D's by myself someone had to do it. As for my wife? She gets sick thinking about someone throwing up. I have found that it is easier for me to clean up after son gets sick than to wait for wife to do it and then I end up cleaning up after her also...
Ok now this may sound strange to everyone but I do think I had a break through today. Wife asked me to clean the bathroom floor. Ok this is good because you might ask? Well this is communication. Wife very rarely asks me to do anything. I have needed to be a mind reader. ”she should not have to ask me. I should be able to see it needs to be done” I have been told so many times before. And all along she would be irritated becasue I had not done it…. So I am more that happy to fulfill this request...
I have not done today’s dare yet.....
Day 5: Love is not rude
He who blesses his friend with a loud voice early in the morning, it will be reckoned a curse to him.
—Proverbs 27:14
TODAY’S DARE
Ask your spouse to tell you three things that cause him or her to be uncomfortable or irritated with you. You must do so without attacking them or justifying your behavior. This is from their perspective only.
Well I still need to go do the bathroom I will return after I do this dare..
Later
Doc
OK, fine. Maybe I am judging. But I am happy to hear that your son is happy with his own room. It was nice of him to play along with Mom that he was sad to see her go down the hall. But only she could have really believed it.
Yet again, I agree with Sara.
Actually, maybe I should change my by-line to that - lol
But only she could have really believed it.
TODAY... was the first time he brought his friend into HIS room..
Hey, Saffie. You know I'm not always right. When you respond first, then I agree with you.
Sara.
We are a great double act!!!!!!!!!!
Don't have time. Today is not a good day. My company is laying off 600 people world wide. Most likley means about 100 - 200 where i work
Don't have time. Today is not a good day. My company is laying off 600 people world wide. Most likley means about 100 - 200 where i work
Fingers crossed, Doc!!
I'm sorry to hear that Doc. Obviously I have fingers crossed you are not one of those who go, which from what I understand is unlikely. Even so, seeing others go is just horrible, and morale gets so low and there is a threat left hanging all the time.
(((((((HUGS)))))))
My company just laid off over 1200 people nationwide the week before last. About 200 people from our division were let go -- it has been very scary.
I'm pulling for you, bro'
Doc,
I know how uncertain a time it is for you. I survived a couple of waves of layoffs at the company I used to work at when the semiconductor industry started its big downturn in 2000. In early 2003, I got laid off. Unfortunately for me, that was almost one year to the day when W and I had our big falling out so there was no sympathy or show of support that came from her.
In your sitch, you have a number of positive things going on with W. I would recommend that you keep her informed on what is going on and let her know how you feel.
As with NoCodeBlues, I hope you come through this unscathed...
Hang in there buddy! It's rough waters, but I believe you can swim better then you think.
Rambling on....
Today was ok at work. Everyone is on edge. It looks like my job is pretty safe. I am working on two new NPI's and no one else has built them but me. Wife cousin works at the same company and her job is not so certain...
At home son spent the whole day after he got our from school in his bedroom with his friend...WOW. He told me he likes his "New room".
Wife wants us to go to old Chicago pizza for my birthday on Friday. I think this is the first time she has "suggested" going somewhere for my B-day.(last year I spent it my myself in Los Vegas... NEVER AGIAN)..
As she put it “Son has never been to Old Chicago Pizza and I was thinking of going there for your B-day). So she was not really saying she wanted to go for my birthday or was she?
Saturday MIL is taking us out to dinner to the bar /Restraint the wife said she hated going to because whenever we went there we had sex after............
Me
Good ol' Mom, she's still trying!
Good ol' Mom, she's still trying!
Sorry I Don't understand what you are trying to say.
Can any one tell me what Sara is trying to say? and do they feel the same way?
Doc,
I suspect Sara is intimating that MIL supports you and W healing the breach and MIL wants to help out in her own way.
I don't recall if you have mentioned how W's family has reacted to all of this...
Hey daty,
I am not sure if Sara is talking about my wife (son's mom) or my MIL....
I am taking tomorrow off. Work is ok right now but yesterday was like a bunch of ants running around after the ant hill was kicked.
I have some updates maybe later about some things that I caught myself doing. ..Doc is trying to improve....
I'd say Sara is referring to MIL since she is taking you to restaurant where in the past it sounds like you would be getting lucky.
Hey Day sorry about the typo..(daty)...
Last night I was scrubbing the kitchen floor when wife came home from work. That is when she mentioned the "pizza dinner". She also mentioned (casually) that my present will probably not get here on time because she did not get to order it until late because she was helping son with his homework. I said "you did not have to get me a present.. You are my present"...
This is one of the many things Doc is working on. KEEPING REMARKS TO HIMSELF....
Another one is not being selfish. In my reading it said that if you only do things for others or do things when others ask you to when it is convenient for you,....then you are being selfish.
Night before last during the rain.. We were attacked by ANTS... It was getting real close to my bed time.. When Wife mentioned we needed to get ant stakes.. I said I told her I would get them in the morning.. She said I hope they don't take over by then... I said well I could go get them tonight and she said I think that is a good Idea....so I went.
Yesterday I made some Pork Fried rice for dinner. After dinner wife told me that she had some things to take over to her mom's if I was going over there anytime soon.
(MIL has been getting "lonely" with this rainy weather)
I told her I could go to her Mom's house after I finished eating and I could take her some Fried rice.
My point is I am trying to do things for others even though I don't feel like it. I mean I do things anyway that I know needs to be done. But I have to admit that if it is not convenient.. Most of the time I let it slide....
I'd say Sara is referring to MIL since she is taking you to restaurant where in the past it sounds like you would be getting lucky.
Thanks Hope... Not sure with Sara sometimes... She often "hits my cage with a stick" when I am off base so.... Women..... Don't know why they think us thick headed men can read minds....
DOc
Crazy creatures, us women.
YOu still sound good. Keep it up. Glad your job is safe, too.
Didn't know I was so cryptic. Yes, I was referring to MIL as Mom. And I was saying that MIL is trying to help you succeed in your goals. Maybe she doesn't know what your wife thinks of when she thinks of that restaurant, but then again, maybe she does. I would say that MIL is on your side.
I would say that MIL is on your side.
I know this. Even though I have not said anything to her I know she knows things are not easy for me....
Doc
Good ol' Mom, she's still trying!
Sara,
I need to apologize to you. I am sorry but I was thinking that you were making a remark about my Wife bringing up "son has never been there" about taking me to pizza on my birthday.
I know my wife's actions annoy you.
I was signed up to take tomorrow off but so much work came in that I do not think when they are doing lay offs that it would be a good idea right now so I am going in for 1/2 day.
I have been having "attitude problems" in my R. Wife seems to be coming right along with my changed approach. But for some reason I am having a hard time going with the flow. Having a hard time keeping the "smiling face". It’s hard not knowing if she is happy because she thinks I have given up or just happy. I guess is does not really matter though. I think I may go for broke and see if I can try for some small physical contact. (Holding her hand walking from the pizza pallor).
We will see how the night goes...
Doc