I see my thread locked, I should have started a new one. I'm really hurting right now. will try to post more in a little bit although I'm not sure what to say or what I even think at this point.
Here's the link to my last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=892100&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1&vc=1
Deb,
Just try not to let the emotions totally overwhelm you.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Deb}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Deb -
I am sorry you are hurting - let yourself cry, break down a little, etc. Don't hold it all in. I still think it'd be a good idea to go away for even a couple of days by yourself (or longer), so you can get a handle on everything from a distance.
Good Morning Deb-
((((DEB)))) Hang in there hon! You have all the tools necessary, not least of which is your strength of character, to deal with this situation and get through this with flying colors!
Keep that chin up. Will check in with you later-
Dawn
Deb: How are you doing? We are all here if you need us.
thanks Pam and Dawn and Debra and dfb and tc and mollie and Ellie....I don't know where I'd be with out you all.
I'm not sure how I'm doing today. all over the place actually. Yesterday I did go visit with the preist, he was surprisingly, I thought, helpful...gave me some insights into h, somewhat. He believes h wants to end the A with out being the bad guy, and of course that's impossible. he thinks I probably did what had to be done at this point but of course as I know, I have to back it up now. so we shall see. I got the names of three attorneys from him, I am planning to call to see about getting appts. to get info. actually I got the names of 4...the 4th is a gal whom he said of "this is the one to get if you want a divorce and you want to win"...so...the others he said are good with womens issues but won't back down. I share an office, so havent had a chance to call from work. I go home in a few minutes, so hope to have a chance to call tonight. I figured out where I can get the cash to open a checking acct this week. it will be a tiny deposit but a start. the preist was actually glad I asked him for names of attorneys.
I feel like crap physically and emotionally because I'm not sleeping, and to top everything off I have a bladder infection. I'm still driving around with what I think might be stuff I could turn into cash in my minivan. Is that weird or what?????
I intend to maintain my personal integrity by keeping my word, but it's kind of tough right now. I figured out what's up with H's asking for a couple of weeks. Saturday is ow's bday. damn, who do you suppose is getting the llbean stuff??????
H has asked me several times to go with him to his workshop on friday, I sent him an email this morning and told him all my feelings about stuff, what I've figured out about Saturday...he hasnt denied it. I don't recall, havent reread the chapter yet, is telling them what you know ever part of dbing???guess I already blew it with the email copies if it isnt.
I don't know what I'm going to do about friday. I may just go if I find something for S to do. I know it probably doesnt make much sense, but I still have hope that we will come out of this, and it is uninterrupted time up an back that H and I would have together to talk. I sent him the email about what I figured out at 1, havent heard back from him. I sense that he is so restrained in his emails to me, and I mentioned that to him.
I mentioned last weekend that I had kept a journal (this board) and H got all worked up about it (didnt tell him it's electronic)...purported that he has also jotted down a lot of
pertinent information/incidents"....sheesh, talk about blowing smoke and trying to intimidate somebody. I havent done a damn thing but go for a few long drives in the middle of the night. and gee, I wonder if somebody might think he had some ulterior motives if they read the "goods" I've got on him?
TC, if you see this, you mentioned you had heard the same things from your H....can you elaborate?????what did you do?????
I am really trying to keep my anger and sadness and frustration under control and just keep on doing what I've decided I need to do, for the reason that I'm a very emotional person (surprise, surprise) and I don't make good decisions when I lose my temper. at all. The stakes are too high to blow it by blowing up. but I am fried and frazzled.
I really don't like this town. If we split up, I believe I will look at going back to school (at 50?) and moving...although I have concerns about S.
I still get ILY's from H, although this morning i was having a tough time and commented "I'm working on letting go" and he got ticked off, said "that's not a good thing to hear in the morning but ok" and stormed out the door?????? now I just got an email asking if I'd pick him up some beer.
I dunno, I can only scrape up about 150 bucks to start a checking acct with, but I guess it's a start, and you have to start some where.
I don't regret telling him I know about the bitch's bday on Saturday, let him know I know while he's there giving her her bean boots. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that's what's going on, with out him saying a word. I mentioned that to the preist, he didnt doubt it or even raise an eyebrow, in fact he said "of course you know, it's because a man can't give his heart to two women". ouch.
thanks Pam and Dawn and Debra and dfb and tc and mollie and Ellie....I don't know where I'd be with out you all.
I'm not sure how I'm doing today. all over the place actually. Yesterday I did go visit with the preist, he was surprisingly, I thought, helpful...gave me some insights into h, somewhat. He believes h wants to end the A with out being the bad guy, and of course that's impossible. he thinks I probably did what had to be done at this point but of course as I know, I have to back it up now. so we shall see. I got the names of three attorneys from him, I am planning to call to see about getting appts. to get info. actually I got the names of 4...the 4th is a gal whom he said of "this is the one to get if you want a divorce and you want to win"...so...the others he said are good with womens issues but won't back down. I share an office, so havent had a chance to call from work. I go home in a few minutes, so hope to have a chance to call tonight. I figured out where I can get the cash to open a checking acct this week. it will be a tiny deposit but a start. the preist was actually glad I asked him for names of attorneys.
I feel like crap physically and emotionally because I'm not sleeping, and to top everything off I have a bladder infection. I'm still driving around with what I think might be stuff I could turn into cash in my minivan. Is that weird or what?????
I intend to maintain my personal integrity by keeping my word, but it's kind of tough right now. I figured out what's up with H's asking for a couple of weeks. Saturday is ow's bday. damn, who do you suppose is getting the llbean stuff??????
H has asked me several times to go with him to his workshop on friday, I sent him an email this morning and told him all my feelings about stuff, what I've figured out about Saturday...he hasnt denied it. I don't recall, havent reread the chapter yet, is telling them what you know ever part of dbing???guess I already blew it with the email copies if it isnt.
I don't know what I'm going to do about friday. I may just go if I find something for S to do. I know it probably doesnt make much sense, but I still have hope that we will come out of this, and it is uninterrupted time up an back that H and I would have together to talk. I sent him the email about what I figured out at 1, havent heard back from him. I sense that he is so restrained in his emails to me, and I mentioned that to him.
I mentioned last weekend that I had kept a journal (this board) and H got all worked up about it (didnt tell him it's electronic)...purported that he has also jotted down a lot of
pertinent information/incidents"....sheesh, talk about blowing smoke and trying to intimidate somebody. I havent done a damn thing but go for a few long drives in the middle of the night. and gee, I wonder if somebody might think he had some ulterior motives if they read the "goods" I've got on him?
TC, if you see this, you mentioned you had heard the same things from your H....can you elaborate?????what did you do?????
I am really trying to keep my anger and sadness and frustration under control and just keep on doing what I've decided I need to do, for the reason that I'm a very emotional person (surprise, surprise) and I don't make good decisions when I lose my temper. at all. The stakes are too high to blow it by blowing up. but I am fried and frazzled.
I really don't like this town. If we split up, I believe I will look at going back to school (at 50?) and moving...although I have concerns about S.
I still get ILY's from H, although this morning i was having a tough time and commented "I'm working on letting go" and he got ticked off, said "that's not a good thing to hear in the morning but ok" and stormed out the door?????? now I just got an email asking if I'd pick him up some beer.
I dunno, I can only scrape up about 150 bucks to start a checking acct with, but I guess it's a start, and you have to start some where.
I don't regret telling him I know about the bitch's bday on Saturday, let him know I know while he's there giving her her bean boots. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that's what's going on, with out him saying a word. I mentioned that to the preist, he didnt doubt it or even raise an eyebrow, in fact he said "of course you know, it's because a man can't give his heart to two women". ouch.
A weird thing happened today. I almost take it as an omen. I was so pissed off Saturday I wrapped my wedding rings in a tissue and put them in my purse, I was actually thinking I might pawn them and move out. yesterday I cleaned junk out of my purse, and you guessed it, I threw them in the trash still wrapped in the tissue. on the way to work this morning this cold chill hit me that I had done that. sure enough, I went through my purse and it was gone. pulled out my trash can, janitor had already emptied it of course. almost cried. got up, walked out side to the back of the dumpster, looked in. there were only three small bags there. looked again, I could see a flyer I knew I'd thrown away in the side of one, so figured that was the stuff from my trash can. took it into my office and opened it, nothing in it except my trash. flyers, papers, kleenex some empty Macdonalds coffee cups. with my heart pounding I started unfolding the kleenexs, afraid it was gone. about the 6th one I touched i could tell had my rings in it. sure enough, there they were. I can't believe they didnt get hauled to the dump. I have to say I would have been heartbroken.
I would love to believe it's an omen....
well, this is my day to leave early, so I'm going to get S. I should go work out, but i don't think I'm going to today. I just feel pretty crappy, even though I'd probably feel better if I did.
I'm trying so hard to stay calm but resolute. I think I will feel a little better, although still sad, if I get the checking acct opened and the attny appt made.
Deb -
I didn't see anything written before about LLBean stuff? And he didn't really do much for your anniversary, so hopefully he's not planning on visiting her for her birthday.
There is no reason you can't go back to school at 50. Moving sounds like a good idea to me whether alone or if you stay together. I AM glad you found your rings. Whether your M means anything to your H, I know it does mean a lot to you.
I think you should keep the stuff in your van for now. Maybe clean house and have a yard sale of things you don't want. Don't sell H's stuff, of course...the Priest sounds like he gave good advice, I am surprised he gave information on lawyers. Definitely keep taking steps to protect yourself.
You are a really special person, Deb - don't forget that. You don't deserve to be treated this way. You mentioned that your H didn't like your weight - but at the same time, he was taking walks by himself. He could certainly have invited you. There is a lot he could have done.
Anyway - definitely stay strong, and hopefully in the end, your H will get his head out of his ass and see what he could lose.
It is never easy to do something that we know is gonna hurt even if it can be justified by the knowledge that it is the best thing you can do for yourself.
It kind of makes me sick that after all of this especially all the recent stuff, he is going to spend her birthday with her. But there is nothing you can do to prevent it. You set the date of June 1 and that will be what you have to stick to now.
$150.00 is a fine start for your account. Even if all you can do is add tiny amounts it while you wait until June 1, that is still all for the good. YOu may be surprised were you can find $20.00 here and $20.00 there. No I do not find it odd at all that you are driving around with your "valuables" in your mini van. When you look back on that you will see it is almost good enough for a movie.
I had a thought today. Since you are so comfortable with the priest, have you thought about asking your H to go with you at some point? If your H does stick to what he has said and ends it by June 1, the priest could also help act as an intermediary with OW as she attends same church. Knowing he is involved could give you some peace. Just a thought.
I know this is hard, but stop letting H bully you with his comments. You know what is what and that is really all that matters.
I am concerned that once the deadline draws nearer, he is going to waffle. We know he is not going to tell her this weekend and ruin her birthday. Have you thought about what that will mean to you?
Regarding this Friday, you are going to have to go with your gut. Do you feel up to spending all that time in the car with him? It may be a good opportunity to talk as you say, just don't expect that the talk and the day together will result in him not seeing her on Saturday. I am afraid you will be hurt.
Maybe if you do go, you can talk with H about all three of you moving out of the town you live in. He hasnt been happy with his job in a long time so he can start fresh somewhere else and she wont be around. It might be just what you all need.
Keep up the good work my friend. You are at a crossroads now and you get to chose which fork to take, no one else. I know it is scary but you are stronger than you give yourself credit for.
The decisions your H makes at this point will impact you all. All you can do is face them head on with the honestly and love you have shown throughout this entire journey. You will win in the end. What that may mean has yet to be made clear. You deserve a happy life and that is your goal now.
love
debra
Deb, I know some on your thread don't agree with me, but I just want to note some things from your post that I would not do--doesn't mean it is the right or only way, but...I would not mention the journal or the "I'm working on letting go". These are things that he doesn't need to know. If I said that to my H it would be because I was trying to get a reaction from him--and it probably would not be the one I wanted. Don't talk to him about what you are doing. It just reminds him of his guilt and makes him want to avoid you.
If you do go with him Friday--and it is a positive that he asked you--please try not to R talk. Just spend time with him like friends and don't bring up OW b-day, your M, nothing but two friends spending time together. No analyzing, assuming, picking at him. Look good, smile your butt off and validate. Some here will say he doesn't deserve it, but what would the opposite get you?
I believe one of the things that got my H back to me was to forgive and move on. I don't talk about the past and even though it was a hurtful time, I don't need to go over it and remind him what an A$$ he was. I know he appreciates it.
I agree with your priest that he is trying to breakup without being the bad guy. He has guilt coming from all sides and I imagine he feels pretty horrible about himself right now.
And as the DR book says, he will need time to grieve and may not be the nicest guy in the world for a while.
And, this is a biggie for me, my H never apologized except when I first found out about OW. He never showed remorse or even talked about it. But I could tell from his actions how he felt. And I know even without him saying so, that he appreciates me for letting him deal with his stuff in his own way. DBing helped me to read between the lines with him. He can't talk about things. So, that may or may not happen in your sitch.
Anyway, keep trying to let go, have more patience, and keep working on what you need to do to help you feel financially protected. I believe this is all going to work out for you!
Deb -
1) I DO think finding the rings was a good omen
2)
Quote:
"I'm working on letting go"
He probably thought you meant you were letting go of HIM instead of letting go of the need to control the sitch.
3) DO go with him Friday. No ifs, ands, or buts. He needs your time and attention, more than you might realize. Go and ACT AS IF and be darned good company (and wear some Victoria's Secret).
4) DON'T bring up the OW's birthday or her present again. If HE brings it up, just say "look, I'm sorry I brought that up, I really don't think we should talk about it now. I KNOW you are ending things with her and I trust you to get it done without hurting me any more". (Wording here is VERY important - you KNOW he is ENDING things (ACT AS IF) and you TRUST him to get it DONE without HURTING YOU MORE (which reminds him that OW's feelings are not the only ones that have been hurt)).
Be SURE he can't find out you've been calling lawyers (I would not call from the home phone).
Ellie
Oh - and why don't you send him an email to clarify what your "journal" was about - that it wasn't about you cataloguing his transgressions - but that you have written, almost every single day since the bomb, in an attempt to become a better person, and to learn more about R's, an in an attempt to keep you strong and sane and focused on saving your marriage during the most painful experience of your life.
Ellie
Hi Deb-
I had a late day but wanted to check in and let you know that I am thinking of you. I am glad that the priest was helpful. He sounds like a good person to keep turning to.
Get yourself to the doctor, if you haven't already and get on some meds for that bladder infection. I have a history of kideny stones and I know that even without the pain, the annoying feeling of having to "go" all the time is nerve wracking!
I was so happy to read that you are going to start your own account. The amount does not matter! I think that it will make you feel empowered! Makes me want to go get my own! (Although, I must admit that I have been hording cash since this whole thing began...lol. It does begin to accumulate nicely!
And, Yep, you pissed him off with the comment about letting go. I think (humbly) that if you continue to verbally bait him, he may begin to disregard what you are saying after a while and think it's all game-playing and crying wolf. So careful, careful, careful with your words. Your actions will carry you farther.
I think that you are doing great! I can tell that this "path" is not natural for you. But hang in there, Deb.
I hope you got some sleep-
Dawn
Finally I have a little time to post. I need to ask you all to please offer prayers BIG TIME for H. I'll respond in a bit to all of your wonderful thoughts from yesterday, but right now there really is I think a prayer emergency.
to try to quickly sum up what's going on:
If you pray, please pray that H will have strength and courage and peace. I know that a huge break up happened yesterday, and I am so afraid that he will get sucked back in with her, and/or that she is going to make his life such a living hell that he will be made to feel like he has to go back. I know that other times she throws a fit and threatens suicide and gives him such a dramatic "poor me" story that she sucks him back in.
Things are kind of swirling right now, I hope for the better. H came home about 8:15 last night. He walked in the door and said "have you been praying?" I told him yes, I pray all the time, and he said "well I think things are being worked on"....and hugged and held me. I didnt ask him anything, just told him about my ring. this morning I told him I couldnt resist asking what he meant by his comment the night before. he told me in about 2 minutes before he left for work. I sent him an email yesterday. actually I've sent him 3 in the last 2 days. I was pretty down about stuff, and I just told him how I felt about him, life without him, etc.. I never ever ever do this. ever.
This morning he told me that she stormed into his office yesterday when he was typing an answer to me and demanded to see all his emails. That she got really angry and upset, especially because some of them (mine) referred to her...nothing at all bad, just that I knew he probably planned to be with her Saturday and that there was nothing I could say that he hadnt already heard from her....he said she started crying and left, that he thought she finally realized she was interfering and that "things were'nt that bad" (meaning as bad as she wanted to believe) between us.THAT in itself is big, for him to say such a thing is incredible.
About 9 this morning i got this email from him:
Quote:
Good morning love: I made it to A with the kids. Thanks for all your love and support. It makes a huge difference!! I hope you have a good day!! You certainly have nothing to worry about now! D
(he calls his out-of-town co-workers "the kids" because they're not much older than our D and SIL)
this makes me think that maybe she pitched another fit again this morning. I wonder also if she won't try to make trouble for him here at work. Frankly, I have enough of the goods on her and the boss knows enough I think she'd be slitting her own throat, but I don't know.
I got an email after lunch saying he'd gone for a walk with co-workers, and how nice it was to do that, (I'm guessing she required him to hang by the phone) and how much he needs my prayers and support. so I am terrified he is perhaps wavering, no way to know.
but just please please pray.
Hi Deb -
Definitely I will pray. I wish he could quickly get out of the office - because the woman sounds like trouble with a capital T.
Thanks, dfb, I so appreciate it. sometimes if I stop and think too much about it she scares me, and I only hope she is not a much of a fruit loop as I think she is/can be. H is very much afraid of what will happen to her/worries about her. he told me that last weekend.
speaking of fruit loops, did i tell you about her shoe boxes? I cant remember what all I even posted about in the last week or so...
Deb - now is the time for you to just stick to the high road, be happy and Act As If. It will contrast mightily with OW's antics (imagine - insisting on seeing his emails to his WIFE, as if YOU were the OW!!!! Of course, though, remember - your H like most WAHs probably fed her the lines that his M was over, you were a witch or didn't love him, whatever.) Just let her push him away - her crazy, selfish behavior will start to make a stark contrast to your steady, loving, calm behavior.
I think this is all good so far, so keep your insecurities at bay, buy some new Victoria's Secret undies, and play upbeat music every day before H comes home. (Ooohh - and borrow a page from stores like Pier One, and make your home smell great and have some jazz music playing softly in the background. Heck, it works to get people to buy things!
)
Ellie
Hi Dawn, I thought I'd just respond here individually to every one. you have all been so helpful and so supportive, I am forever indebted to you, no matter how this comes out.
The LLBean stuff: last week I think I posted that I'd seen him taking an llbean womens wear catalog out of the house to work with him....kind of got my eyre up, since I've not gotten anything out of it, and I've known her bday is this coming weekend. h is a big LLBean fan, so she'd probably act ga-ga over something like that, even if she wasnt.
I'm still driving around with my "good stuff" in the van, and have started sorting boxes of stuff at home.THAT needs to be done no matter what.
I was also surprised at teh priests reactions...the OLDER one, the one our parents age, said "I sometimes think people give up way to quickly when they should at least try, but this is way beyond what anyone could be expected to endure" and that "it's about more than just him and his happiness and it's way past time for him to grow up and get over it"....the younger preist, who's about our age, smiled and said monsignour "gets into the parent mode" and he thought maybe I was right to kind of lay back and not play every hand at once, that it would perhaps, as I've thought, just bring out more of H's rebellious adolescent mode since he tends to see his folks as being overbearing. But, he's the one who gave me the attorneys names and some insight into what he believes is going on under H's skin...actually it was pretty helpful, as he was able to share it from the perspective of an oldest male child growing up in a large Catholic family....they were both incredibly patient and supportive. so helpful.
I am still opening my checking acct and talking with the attorneys to get info. I just need to have this done so I wont be quite so vulnerable--or have so much to think of all at once- if I do need to make good on my promise.
Both priests emphasized the importance of following through on my promise. I hope I don't have to, but I am still prepared and determined to. Of course, it's hard for me to keep my expectations low when things happen like they did last night and this morning.
oops, again, dfb, this last post should have been in response to yours from yesterday...I'm working on Dawns still!
Deb - stick to the high road BUT if the topic comes up again (by H) about her possibly being vindictive or wacky, you COULD mention to him how she used to do cruel things to you like constantly park her car next to you on purpose with the Valentine's Bear he gave her prominently displayed on her dashboard.
Ellie
thanks Ellie...I know, I was taken aback as well by her demanding to see his emails to the person he has been married to for 1/4 of a century!!!!!!!!! I didnt respond other than pretty noncommitally (sp?) to say "huh", and I don't intend to respond. I'm sure he has fed her some poor me stuff, and I know from seeing her correspondence to him that she has worked HARD to plant those seeds in his mind as well.
and for her to demand that he hang by the phone during lunch breaks, etc.????? (I'm inferring that from his email, of course, but I'm betting it's pretty on target). I mean, how can you expect anyone to live their life that way???????
I am going to stop on the way home at bath and body and pick up an aroma therapy oil combo I've liked and not gotten. H likes some of those. hmmmmmmm, there is also a candle scent he likes at a "throw back" (head shop?) cd store here in town. I use lots of candles, but maybe I can run by and grab a couple of those. I picked up "Diamonds and Rust", an old Joan Baez cd, (yes I know we are really old) that he asked for a couple of weeks ago, but I havent given it to him yet. maybe i'll try to put that on before he gets home tonite. hmmmmmmmm
I got a sitter for Friday, so I am going to ride along to the workshop with him, it will give us about 6 hours together, just to chat and listen to music as "friends"...no great expectations, but it will be a change of pace for me (might drive the ow over the edge too, darn)...I'm going to take along a book I've been trying to read...actually a novel for fun...and hang out in the park, I can mozy downtown and snoop through the antique shops and meet h for lunch. If we even have a civil day, which I certainly expect, it will be a nice change of pace and scenery for me.
I havent gotten to Vicky S's yet, intend to...I did stop by a store on the way back from a lunch meeting and got some black capris and a snug hot pink ribbed sweater with a low neck (I'm going for boobs here, H likes em, I've got em, ow doesnt
) I also picked up a couple conservative overblouses I can throw on like a jacket, gonna dig out my fake tanning lotion and get that on....now if I can just lose 30 pounds by Friday. sigh. i'm going for a spicy but classy look, don't want to look like a tramp, but don't want to be boring........
Interesting you should mention "act as if"...I walked around the house last night trying to focus and telling myself "act as if" "act as if"
yes, Ellie, I will share, calmly, those little tidbits.
You know, I really don't like that woman!
Deb: I will pray for H will all my might!!!!!! Have you made arrangements for Son so you can go with him on Friday? If she is pissed he wont want to be with her on her birthday now. Take advantage. Can you suggest making it a weekend away just to be in a calm and peaceful place and just BE?
He words sound almost like he is relieved.
Keep up all your good work. Stay calm and focused and let him see your love. No anger or fits to cloud it all up.
love
debra
Hi Debra. I've appreciated your support so much. I've gotta get an email off to you to check up on you!
I've thought alot about whether or not I should go with him on Friday, and i can handle it. I'm frankly looking forward to some "goof-off time" on my own...no parenting or wifely or work stuff to worry about, just...goofing off. i can just sit in the park and watch the birds all day if I want. READ for FUN! dig through all the little junk stores that bore H speechless. If we fought all the way there and back, which we won't , it would still be worth it.
yeah, I've been working on not worrying now about letting him know what I know, although I'm cautious to not play every hand at once. Evidently when ow read my emails yesterday, she was upset about something I said about her...I made reference to the stuff she emails him about and her bday on Saturday, and evidently it really stirred up her nutsyness. H said she made some comment, and he told her I'm not dumb, that I know alot and pick up on a lot, and that he's told her that before & it always gets her upset, then she accuses him of sticking up for ME....man, the more I type this the more wacko I think that b--ch is.
I would be willing to go to the priest with H, I don't know if he would. I am thinking that if we can kinda get rolling, I may see if H wont go to a Retrouvaille or Marriage Encounter weekend, he may be more amenable to one of those as they are more "private". I think either would help us.
I worry big time about the waffling, BUT if ow starts pitching fits, I think it will help him. maybe I need to pray for her to do just that!!!!! let her show her true colors. H HATES conflict and he hates drama and he has a hard time with change.
Actually, the town we'll be going to Friday would be a top choice for us to move to if we decided to. it maybe something we could discuss. It's where he went to grad school and D and SIL went to undergrad, and we all really like it. higher cost of living, though...
Hi Mollie, thanks, you make some really good points here. I was talking about letting go of the sitch, but H took it to mean of him, and it didnt get a good response at all. of course he was probably pretty sensitive to that after the weekend.
He did apologize, quite tearfully, last weekend, for the "mess he's made"...the priest talked about the self-hatred that has to be consuming him right now, so I think you're right that it's going to be really important to not whap him over the head with that, but to be a steadfast friend. boy, that is going to be a challenge at times.
great words of wisdom:
Quote:
I believe one of the things that got my H back to me was to forgive and move on. I don't talk about the past and even though it was a hurtful time, I don't need to go over it and remind him what an A$$ he was. I know he appreciates it.
I'm going to try to be focused on this and ready to move on if I need to at the same time, if that makes any sense. I can see what a challenge it will be. wow. still one minute at a time is the only way to deal with it I think.
Well considering the price you have paid by living in the town you are in, I think you could handle it!!!!!
Plus new jobs would do you both a world of good.
You sound good.
I have my fingers and toes crossed and I have talked to God twice and will keep it up.
I am so proud of you!!!!!!!! Regardless of the outcome.
You are one special lady!!!
love
debra
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4) DON'T bring up the OW's birthday or her present again. If HE brings it up, just say "look, I'm sorry I brought that up, I really don't think we should talk about it now. I KNOW you are ending things with her and I trust you to get it done without hurting me any more". (Wording here is VERY important - you KNOW he is ENDING things (ACT AS IF) and you TRUST him to get it DONE without HURTING YOU MORE (which reminds him that OW's feelings are not the only ones that have been hurt)).
Ellie, I'm going to print this off to try to keep the words on the tip of my tongue, and the info about the journal. I'm not sure I will bring it up, but I will clarify it if it comes up. It hadnt occured to me that he would take it that I was writing stuff to get at him with, but of course he would, that makes sense.
and, Dawn, yep, you're so right about needing to let go of "baiting him"........I'll admit I do that every now and then.
I did get some antibiotic yesterday, and weirdly enough I believe they've helped in 24 hours. I just got samples, I have to check back w/dr. tomorrow to see if its what the culture indicates is needed, but I'm thinking it must be since i feel better pretty rapidly.
hi again Debra! I am feeling calmer, thank heavens, of course this turn of events helps. I hope things are still on that track or I can get them there this evening. he actually said at some point, I'm not sure if it was last night or last weekend, that it was "almost a relief"
I don't think we can make it an overnighter this time, BUT, S is going to stay with D & her H for a month --June--and I am planning on taking full advantage of that opportunity. I am looking forward to Friday though, big time. I think it would probably piss her off to no end. I gotta get my leave request turned in so it goes on the big wall calendar to stare HER in the FACE knowing I'M with HIM....oh hum, maybe I can help her have a fun birthday!
Hi Deb - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that H has the courage to stay the course, and that you have the strength to support him. It will feel unfair at times, but if you can stick with the process, the rewards are well worth it.
Hugs, Slowly
thank you , thank you, thank you, thank you, Debra.
I so have my fingers crossed. I'm kind of holding my breath to see what things are like when he gets home tonight. there are things I want to ask him, but I'm thinking I may hold back (like what the heck did she say this morning!)
Thanks Slowly!!!! I'm having to tell my self to breathe and stay calm. this feels awfully big to me right now.
gotta go get some good smelling "stuff",
I'll update all in the morning....
Don't ask - don't bring up OW unless he does, and then DON'T attack her or he'll have to defend her (let HER be the one who looks bad). If he brings her up, though, it's okay to tell him how her creepy stuff with the car makes you a little worried she'll harrass you further.
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got some black capris and a snug hot pink ribbed sweater with a low neck (I'm going for boobs here, H likes em, I've got em, ow doesnt )
If you've got 'em, use 'em, I say
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now if I can just lose 30 pounds by Friday.
Well, the tanner takes off 10!
Ellie
deb,
u r doing great! i know you will have some reservations about everything, but if you can, try and have some fun with him. dont expect anything ground breaking. dont try for a deep r talk, even though you may WANT one more then anything. just be fabulous!! no pressure no worries. it is just one day, not the rest of your life. OW will most definatly be pressuring him and trying for the deep talks and demanding all kinds of things. she will use guilt, you can battle guilt with fun. if you were in your h's shoes, would you rather turn to the carefree happy funloving w of many years, or an OW who is demanding and angry and full of guilt?
you can still protect yourself. you dont have to just let your gaurd down. just be yourself.
kellyagain
Hi all. I need some kind of guidance today more than ever I think; I am an anxious mess. I am SO AFRAID H will run back to her.
I havent said much to him, I did ask him very briefly this morning before work if his email from yesterday was still accurate. he said yes (the one that started with "good morning love:" and ended with "You sure have nothing to worry about now"... I couldnt sleep last night, and commented to him that I guessed I was tossing and turning because I was anxious...he said "I know"...this morning I've just gotten the short business like emails from him...I did tell him again that I'm having trouble with "fears", and he said there is nothing to "fret" about, but I sure remember hearing that last fall. He talked about being really busy and that he likes that right now because it helps keep his mind off of things.....
then, and this was upsetting to me, he asked if I was for sure planning on going tomorrow
, so what, is he talking with her about her going if I didnt?????
I emailed back that I was planning to if the invitation was still open, and that I was looking forward to it. I havent gotten a response since I sent that.
H is complaining of being sick to his stomach and not feeling well, was complaining this morning before work.
I'm having such a hard time...he is so all over the place in the emotional "vibes" I get from him. Last night, he was more cheerful than I had seen him in a long, long time, joking and laughing about "the kids", joking that his immaturity has gotten him this far in life, really cheerful. He got home from work before I did because I stopped to pick up some scented oil and "stuff". when I was changing clothes, he initiated a "quickie" and was so cheerful and happy about it...
even this morning he was saying we should go to a nearby city to hear one of "the kids" band, and that we should have a barbeque and have that band play and invite the coworker that left last fall that he's missed so, and that we could invite some neighbors we've kind of had a rocky relationship with to "get them back"......
and now, 3-4 hours later he seems so down and distant again.
It would help me so much if he would share with me where he's at, what's going on. but he seems to close up again, and that scares me because it's what's always happened before when he runs back to her. and of course, it's hardball this time. lots at stake.
Stop asking, Stop ASSuming, and Act As If everything is going to be okay. get that duct tape out and put it over your mouth! Remember what my firend taught me when he showed me how to ride a motocycle - he said "Don't look where you don't want to go. If you look at the ditch, you'll end up in the ditch"
Quit looking at the ditch, Deb!!!!!!
Now - Get happy!!! Buy some new perfume!!! Smile and plan for a great day tomorrow!
Ellie
If anyone is out there, I sure need a talking to, some ideas, insight, anything. Today is REALLY rough. I don't know what to think. or do.
I'm having an awful time keeping my anxiety under control.
Don't look where you don't want to go...that's good. I'm gonna try to keep repeating that.
I just have a hard time keeping my focus when H gets weird all over again. I have this awful feeling she is probably fighting with him about me going with him tomorrow.
Ellie, help me see the light at the end of the tunnel here....if he is feuding with her about it, and I cheerfully stick with my plan and we have a good day....what will happen? plus I've gotta keep the June 1 date in mind.
I want so much to ask him to talk to me about stuff, to tell me what his plans/thoughts are. but I know I don't dare. DUCT TAPE DUCT TAPE DUCT TAPE...........
Deb: Stay calm. Remember you set a deadline of June 1. Be calm and loving, stop asking questions and stop telling him you are afraid. That is her job right now, yours is to be strong, confident and loving. If he blows it or does not follow thru on his promise to end it by June 1 you already have your plans in motion. Who knows why he asked if you were going tomorrow. Could be her could be anything. Stop assuming it is her, cause if it is sweetie, there is nothing you can do anyway.
Go tomorrow and have fun...be happy and loving and most of all calm and confident. You cannot make this decision for him anymore than you can stop him from waivering. All you can do is control your reactions and follow thru with what you have decided. You want your marriage, he says he is staying and ending it with her, you gave him the end date of june 1. Make the time until then be effortless for him where you are concerned. Home is happy, you are happy, etc....let her be the nag and the whiney insecure bitch. June 1 will come and you will have an answer and can proceed as you see fit.
Breathe Deb.
love
debra
Deb-
I could agree with Debra more!
Continue with your plans. Do not worry about what you can not change. Keep your expections low. Breathe, relax, be happy and enjoy.
You have done what you can here as far as telling your h what you expect from this relationship...ie.."I expect there to only be two of us in our relationship".
I know that you are doubting him. It's understandable. You can not control what he is going to do, only yourself and how you choose to react. Deb, he does not carry the fate of YOUR life in his hands....you do.
I hope things work out well for you tomorrow. Best of luck!
Dawn
dang, help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got a very terse email from H, saying he wasnt feeling any better and he'd see if his lunch stayed down, and he had to go because he had to do a letter to the court. No mention from him of tomorrow, after I'd said I was planning to go and looking forward to it.
I may strangle him if he backs out. the s--t. that would mean giving up his ce money though, plus his hours for license renewal. this sucks. I am not able to be objective at all.
thanks Debra and Dawn...I know you are both right, It's just so hard to keep my expectations low when he was so "hot" yesterday, and seems so "cold" today.....it has to be some how related to this stuff.
or it could simply be is isnt feeling well (could be due to the stress of the situation) just dont add to it. Assume you are going tomorrow until he tells you otherwise.
If you dont hear from him, maybe sent a short email asking how he is doing is there anything you can do for him or get for him to make him feel better (like medicine or tea, etc. or anything you can pick up on your way home)
Stay upbeat and calm.
You can do this. Stop buying yourself anxiety. If he says he cant go tomorrow, then you have some thinking to do (unless of course he is throwing up all over the place and very obvioulsy ill)
debra
I sent an email saying i was worried about him, and wanted to help how ever I could, for him to let me know what I could do. I havent heard a word back from him. I did get an email by mistake from the business office that his workshop here in town on June 3 has been canceled. I could email and ask if he got that and ask if I can pick him up anything when I pick up a prescription of my own in a little while.
I would just forward the email. YOu have already told him to let you know if he needs anything to let you know. Dont crowd him. He is either, sick, very busy, dealing with the OW or upset at everything right now. Let him be....... you can give him some TLC tonight at home, just remember to treat it as he is telling you it is, sickness... .nothing more.....offer a nap, asprin, etc, nothing else and no more questions.....
If you can try and let us know if you are going tomorrow so we dont worry and say lots of prayers for a good day for the two of you.....
love
debra
I agree with Debra - but hey, if you have any funny joke emails you could forward to him, now might be a good time.
Ellie
Hi Deb -
I am planning to leave for Europe tomorrow for two weeks, but I just wanted to let you know that I'll keep you all in my prayers. I know it's tough - but you can't expect anything at all. But definitely be firm on that June 1st deadline.
H was just here in my office. he said he feels better than he did, but still ill. S is also feeling sick to his stomach, he said when I picked him up this evening, so maybe it is a bug or something.
h said "that's fine" in regard to me going with him, I asked "do you want me to" (bad dbing, I know...at least I didnt say anything else....his response was "how many times do I have to tell you yes"....I did manage to wink at him and tell him I thought maybe 200 would do it. H says he has to leave at 5 am tomorrow, which means S will be alone for 2 hours to get himself on the school bus. I have afterschool care but not before school. so I have my fingers crossed. S is almost 13, but he's never done this before. hopefully he will be feeling ok. that could change everything in a hurry.
I did tell H I was sorry for being so anxious while he was here, he said a couple of times that I "have nothing to worry about"....but he is just tight lipped and grumpy, which is not the kind of response that eases my anxiety.
I swear maybe being separated would be easier. sometimes I wonder.
Maybe the darned ow has enough self-respect to call it quits after she read the emails, I almost doubt it though.
As it stands now, I'm planning to go tomorrow. I sure need all the prayers anyone can say.
I did just forward the email and tell him I wanted to make sure he got it.
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but he is just tight lipped and grumpy, which is not the kind of response that eases my anxiety.
Deb,
If you put yourself in his place, he is facing something that is going to be very difficult for him and even though he loves you and doesn't want to lose you he quit possibly has some sort of feelings for OW and is hating to hurt her.
So he is stressed, probably is sick. I know when D got really stressed he always ended up making lots of trips to the bathroom and not feeling well.
He probably also feels you are clinging a bit and needing reassurances when he has nothing left to give at the moment to either you or ow, as it is taking all he has to just get himself through this mess he created. I wonder if it could also be driving the guilt home to him when you ask for reassurances and he is feeling resentful, not really angry at you but at himself for creating the mess he is in now and it comes out as rather resentful to you.
I would guess there is a part of him that just wishes he could run and hide and everything be cleared up. Unfortunately life doesn't work that way and he is going to have to face this difficult situation and then begin the work of rebuilding his marriage.
Just some guesses on what he might be feeling at this point in time. Hope trying to look at the other side a bit helps you stand back a little and see your sitch with more distance.
I really think if he isn't pushed too hard you have a good chance of rebuilding a wonderful R. 
I hope you and H have a wonderful day tomorrow. Do your best, 'Act as if' 
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Deb}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Hi Pam, thanks so much, it does help a lot. I know he does still have a lot of feelings for ow, and I'm guessing you're right on target with the other stuff. I wasnt able to get to the point of being able to see that, I have to admit.
I'm caught off guard by how hard this has become for me. i guess what he told me yesterday and Tuesday night really had a big backlash with me. of course, I am more than gun-shy because I've heard it all before...and back he goes. However, I don't recall that he's told me as often that there is nothing to worry about. However, I do recall after their big breakup last fall him saying in an email that I had nothing to fret about and "I love you so much"...so I AM scared to death of going back through all that again.
However, if what he said is true, and from the way he looked when he came home Tuesday nite i'm guessing it is, and she saw our emails for the first time ever, maybe she is pitching such a royally hellacious fit that it will be over.
I don't know what he is doing on Saturday, her b-day....but it will probably have a bit of a cloud over it if she knows I'm with him tomorrow, which I'd guess she will know
.
I'm anxious about leaving S at home for 2 hours to get on the bus. he's stayed at home when he's sick before though, so I guess maybe he can manage.
trying to focus on a glimmer of light here, H did send an email today in response to one of mine that said he was actually doing better than he had thought he would, that it helped when the co-workers are there and he has people around to talk to, and that he doesnt mind being very busy right now, as it helps him keep his mind off of things. I don't recall him ever saying those things before.
maybe it's normal for them to pull back, I just don't know what's normal in a sitch like this, and before that has meant he was back with her in a flash.
wish me luck all, I guess I'm heading home...I'm praying and praying about tomorrow.
Deb,
Hope it is a wonderful relaxing, FUN day with your best friend!
Hi Deb,
Sending you positive energy!I read in one of my many books and on this BB that when the A ends that there is a grieving period and that you have to give your H room to grieve.
I know this sucks and may be hard to accept. But remember in such a sitch that your H has chosen to stay with you and loves you. So if you could try to see it from his POV. and accept that althought he has agreed to do this that it may not be easy for him.
I know he created this but there it is.
I know about this because it was something I thought of as being possible in my own sitch. It was hard to deal with but helped me in dealing with H.
I pray this works out for you. I think you did the right thing by setting some boundaries. God Bless.
Hope
Hey Deb--somehow missed you starting a new thread, and you're already at 55 replies.
I'm thinking of you!
Forgot to add you to my favorites.
Hi all, thanks so much for your support. I wouldnt make it with out it. guess I'll try to update, it was a big weekend, and I'm afraid I'll forget stuff if I don't get it down. I am still terrified that H will go back to ow, as he has in the past, this will make bbu (big break up) #4 that I know of. I think that makes it all harder. Especially in light of the looming June 1 date. terror is almost the word for the way I feel right now.
so, to try to recap....
When I got home Thursday night, S told me he thought maybe H had been on the phone w/ow, that he'd come downstairs from our bedroom with a funny look on his face, but kind of a look like he'd "done something he knew needed to be done"?????? beats me, I just know that S is keenly observant. I had worn that snug pink sweater to work, and H noticed, as I was getting undressed, H actually told me I looked good in it...I said "I do?" and he said "yeah it makes your boobs look really big" and intiated ml....enthusiastically.
Friday, I went with H to his out of town workshop. S got himself on the school bus like a trooper, bless his heart. H got up at 3:30 am that day, I got up at 4, it was a very tiring day...H was pretty quiet and subdued on the drive up, almost irritable and I thought kind of "angry" under the surface. H asked me to pick him up something for lunch and to bring it to the workshop, so I did that, and had located a park close by that I sat in and read that morning, so I took him there for an outdoor lunch. H seemed I thought distant the whole time....I decided to not worry about it, to be "as if" ....so I stayed pleasant and cheerful, but not "giddy". When we got home that evening, we were both "pooped"...at one point H asked if I was going to watch tv with him, I was so tired I wanted to go to bed, but I told him "sure, sounds great" and sat down with him in the family room. at one point, he said he appreciated me going with him, that he'd enjoyed my company and having lunch in the park...which was nice to hear considering how distant he'd been.
then, as tired as he was, he intiated sex again....I think I might have hit on something with that pink sweater, I wore the darn thing that day also.
Saturday was a shock to me. I worked to prepare myself all the last 1/2 of the week, because i knew it was ow's birthday, and I expected he would be with her no matter what. I was so anxious about it, that evidently i was swearing in my sleep, H asked me what I'd been cussing about early in the morning...I have no recollection of it at all, but evidently I started swearing when his alarm went off. He said his thought had been "well ok, if you want to be all pissed off"...
He didnt go to see her for her birthday, he was home all day. this is the first time he has been home on a Saturday morning since the first of November, which I now know after finding the emails is when he got back together with her the last time. He lifted weights, talked about that he was having a tough time and that it would take him some time to get back to himself. We went to church, watched a movie in the evening...no ml Saturday. I braced myself for him to be gone on Sunday since he wasnt on Saturday, but he wasnt. he commented that he wished we were going on vacation this year at our regular time, so he would have it to look forward to...(it would usually be in 2 or 3 weeks). I told him I thought we needed to plan some fun things to do between now and then. He didnt go to ow's yesterday, he was home again all day. in the morning he started to initiate sex, but couldnt perform, and was angry and upset. I decided to be a little adventureous and take matters into my own hands, and it worked...he even told me "thank you" later. H took 2 walks yesterday, and lifted weights. When he came upstairs from lifting, I was in the kitchen fixing desert. He came up behind me, put his arms around me and his hands in a place that used to aggravate me, then just rubbed them up and down my sides, and pulled me backwards against him, kissed my neck, and said "I love you so much"....and held me for a minute pulled back against him. I almost started crying. He suggested on his own that he grill steaks for lunch. I took him out a beer and sat to talk while he did it. We talked about screening in part of the porch, and h asked "what shall we do with the floor, should we paint or stain it"...so it struck me that he seemed more interested in "home"...in the evening we watched another movie, went to bed a little early and snuggled...no sex, just nice snuggles.
This morning before he left, he was kissing me goodbye, and again said "I love you so much"....
I hadnt heard from him at 10, so i sent him an email telling him I was thinking of him, and I got this back:
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Thanks for the e-mail, it is nice to see. I'm sorry that I'm kind of out there these days. I am having a hard time with the grief thing. However, you can rest assured that the other relationship has been dealt with and that it is over for good. It would seem God's hand was in that. Funny, D (ow) had even prayed about this deal looking for a sign, seems that the answer was definitive for all of us. Any way, in a while when I'm back up to par, we can focus on a really good relationship and I'm looking forward to that. We'll have to make sure we plan some fun things. Maybe even fix the 5th wheel up? We could look at doing some tent camping other wise, maybe at CG Lake? Well, I'd better get back to work. Later D
So, I'm hoping and praying that this is IT. I truly don't know how much more I have in me to deal with them getting back together again, even if H and I would seperate.
H is different somehow this time than he has been before though. I dont know how to explain or describe it, but something is different.
I'm praying that I will have God's guidance in putting this back together, (and of course that now we can truely do that ). I know I'm going to have to find the strength to really let go of all of this. That feels big, but I also know that if H is truly committed and working with me, it will help a lot.
just a little bit ago I got this email from H:
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Please be assured that you are doing fine. I do need some alone time, I enjoy walking alone sometimes so I can sort out and let go of the previous relationship thing. Funny, but I think we both just arrived at a point where we finally could let go, it just took a long time to get there. I believe we are both relieved as nobody cared for the situation as it was. Yep, now I can care for you as it suppose to be and you are right maybe we can have the kind of marriage we both perhaps just dreamed of. I appreciate your attention, if it's too much I'll let you know. I'm sure sorry for all the pain I caused, I just pray we can all heal now. Later D
I had asked him to help me to know how to help him...thus his "you are doing fine" comment. It occured to me that the thing that is different this time is his future-orientation, and particularly a future focused on "us"...before, he was almost exclusively focused on the pain and anger around the ending of the A...there wasnt any talk of them both being able to "let go" and relief, either. MAYBE this truly is it.
hmmmmm, I've been thinking and thinking, I'm not even sure how to proceed from here. Obviously it's important that I find the strength to trust that H has ended the A..."act as if"....but when I think of building the kind of marriage I want us to have, I'm clueless as to how to proceed. I've been so focused for so long on getting up to this point. Letting go of the fear is huge in itself. It's important to get things moving forward on a positive note between us, but how to do that without being an overwhelming "fixer" (my usual mode, I've come to see) is a huge question in my mind.
Speak his Love Languages!!!! And it seems pretty clear that quality time is one of them!
Also - do NOT personalize it - lots of times when you think he's "angry", he's either depressed - or mad at himself.
And keep GAL - don't let him come home to the same old, same old. Do lots of 180s, be exciting and interesting.
And buy some more tight sweaters!
Ellie
thanks Ellie! yeah, quality time seems to be very close to the top, if not the top, of the list of his LL's. He almost sounded like a little kid when he asked if I was going to watch TV with him Friday night. And, last night I was out watering flowers and he actually sent S out to ask me if I was going to come watch a movie with him. I'm convinced that other top LL's are WOA and PT...heck, frankly I think he likes them all...AOS, gifts, Recreational companionship. hmmmmm. and yet he talks about needing space and time alone???? challenging and puzzling.
I'm kinda stumped about 180's right now. I know he needs something different....actually the sex thing worked well yester morning, when instead of just saying "ok" and letting it go when he had "problems", I "went after it". I think he was surprised and I have no doubt he enjoyed it. I polished my fingernails to go with my tight sweater, and even S noticed, and called it a "shock"....so maybe that would be a tiny thing. I've really got to think on 180's though.
I have to admit, the tight sweater worked better than i ever thought it would....I'm not sure what it is about that sweater, because I have other rib knit ones that don't do things the same way, but it makes my chest look huge. I may run by and see if they have it in more colors. I mean, talk about doing what works, that sweater worked 2 days in a row when he was bleary eyed from exhaustion. hmmmmm, that's a 180 from the days of minimizer bras and granny night gowns.
I actually wore a night gown to bed not to long ago, a long silk slinky one, because I'd gone to bed early to read, sometimes when I do that S will come in to say good night, and I've always thought it best to be clothed at such moments...anyway, I forgot to take it off and H actually asked about it, asked if I was "dissing" him with the nightgown. sheesh, kinda weird, but.....pretty telling, I guess. better move PT up on that LL list. Is it possible for someone to be so "hungry" for affection that all five are at the top of the list????
ah, I forgot to post earlier, I was thinking about WOA and remembered something else from yesterday morning. I called H a "Gorgeous Guy", I meant it sincerely, but he got so choked up I thought he was crying and he couldnt speak. He shook his head and said "no I'm not" and was visibly upset. My guess is that must have been one of ow's pet names for him, or else he is so disgusted with himself right now that he cant stand to hear that. which is a possibility, because in an email he sent today he commented that he didnt see himself as a "good/special" person right now.
Either way, obviously I need to lay off that for a while, adding to his distress even with "good stuff" is not the way to go.
Hi Deb - As someone who lived throught the numeorus 'this is the end' saga, I can tell you this stuff does happen over time. And there may be the odd contact in the future, just be prepared to consider it part of the closure process.
Totally agree with Ellie, there will be at least for the next year, moments when he is not 100% present, be strong enough to give him the space he needs. This is grief, and it is real to him.
For yourself, now more than ever you need a plan. Definitely more tight sweaters, but also more time for you. IT is so important to recharge your batteries.
Awesome job getting to this point though.
Slowly
Hi Slowly!
You answered a question I was going to ask earlier and forgot to, which was how long this "weird stuff" would last.....so a year, perhaps? I guess that would not be at all surprising. I just hope and pray it really is over this time, however, the things he is telling me are different than what he has ever said before. this process of letting go just seems so strange to me. I think I can understand and handle some odd "contact"....it's the ongoing deceit and every Saturday morning spent with her while his own son misses him, the HOURS on the phone, that gets to me.
H never said definitively "I assure you the other relationship has been dealt with and is over for good this time" before, so I'm sure keeping my fingers crossed. that would be a huge thing for him to go back on though.
how many times did NG and the ow break up???? I remember when that was going on for you. How long has he been "done" with her? (I hope you don't mind me asking).
I know I've got to keep some "reserves" for me. I've been thinking today how "fried" I feel. I'm trying to find a way to up going to the fitness center to 4x week, and still working on the plans I made for being prepared to leave. which means I still need to get an appt with an attorney, just for the information to know how things work. I am totally clueless. still planning the golf lessons, etc., I actually did find a martial arts studio owned and ran by a chiropractor, so that feels like it might be a little more reputable than some of the ones around town I've looked into. They were kinda scary!
Just had an email from H that he had a lot of no-shows today so had to much time to think on his hands and is feeling blue, that being busy helps him to keep his mind off the situation, but that the good thing was he got a lot of work done he should have done on saturday.
The whole thing strikes terror into my heart, because this is what has always happened before, he is so blue he cant stand it, the "work on saturday"...and he is running right back to her.
Is there ANYTHING I could try to help ease his grief and depression? and how do I deal with my terror? just his mention of "work" and "Saturday" in the same sentence absolutely sends me off the deep end.
oh man, I am as big a mess today as I've ever been, I also wonder if I should just throw in the towel. I really need some input/insight, clues as to what to do next.
Last night when H got home, he was "ok"...said he was going to walk, and walked for a good 2.5 hours. he got home about 9:30, & I asked how his walk was. he shook his head and started crying. I said I was sorry he was feeling so bad, and he sat down at the table and started to tell me a lot of stuff. for the next 2.5 hours, even after we went to bed, he told me a lot of stuff. stuff that was really hard to hear.
He told me how he worries about ow's horrible health problems, how he doesnt know what she will do with out him there to do things, what a bright kid her D is and how he worries about her D. How smart ow is, how she was first in her class at nursing school. how he'd been glad she went on his fall vacation with him a year ago that I gave him as a christmas gift. That he bought her contacts after her dog ate hers....that he's been lying all along, that they've only been apart about 2 weeks in this whole time.I told him, yes, I knew that. that he feels like we never knew each other well enough when we got married. that they finally were able to have a long talk without getting angry at each other yesterday....the kind we have. that she's a lot like I am, likes the same kinds of things, always has projects going. That we'd probably get along great together. That he'd been waiting for one of us to throw him out, that he doesnt see how either of us can stand him. Through all this, I managed to listen and validate, I kept telling myself "be his friend, just listen, just listen.
When we went to bed the discussion continued, he was telling me how he took her places and how he just loves it because she gets so excited, like a little kid.
How she would sometimes drive over to his out of town office on Saturday and they'd go have lunch. How she gave up everything to sit and wait for him. how I needed to be nice to her for sending him back, how she's going to write me an apology letter and he thinks she's gone to confession and he needs to go also. That she said to tell me she's not a sexual abuse victim (I'd asked about that) How she said that nothing had ever devastated her a much as the emails from me to him that she read, not even her divorce had hurt so badly. I asked why those hurt her so, and he said because I would never give him up.
I asked him why he changed to going to her place in the mornings instead of the evenings, he said because he was missing going to church, that he hadnt been going. told him yep, I knew that.
somewhere in the middle of this, I lost it. big time. I don't even remember what i said. i think I cried more than yelled. We wound up ML, and it was a sleepless night for me, I think for h as well.
This morning I asked if he is still calling her when his alarm went off. he said "no". I asked if he intends to go back with her within 2 weeks like always before, he said he didnt think she would let him. I said I didnt believe for a minute that she wouldnt take him back in an instant, that it's all a grandstand show.
He said she believes god brought them together, and I lost it at that, I had to mention the bibles comments on the "fruits of the spirit". He said we would be together, that is what god wants, he doesnt want our family ripped apart, that he "needs to learn to love me"...I'm afraid I lost it at that too.
I was po'd, told him I was sick of hearing about how great she was and how her health problems were so much worse than anybody elses...and what kind of a person would use that as a hook to break up a family anyway. that made him mad, he said they werent any worse, and that wasnt what he meant....I threw back up at him what he'd said the night before about worrying about what she'll do...he said "I guess she'll just have to be creative, wont she"...H said he had needed my support but he'd been a fool to think I could give it, that he would never talk to me about this stuff again, that it was to close for me. uh, yeah. I do need to talk to about it. It's just incredibly painful. He did kiss me goodbye, but I don't think there were any ILY's on either side.
the hated all staff meeting was this morning, I walked in the door with 1 person between ow and I...H was already there, I looked at him and saw him looking at me with kind of big eyes, I don't know if I looked that much like hell or if he thought I was going to take her apart. I was the second person out the door from the meeting, and just after I got out the door, I looked and saw that H was beside me. He must have had to hurry to get there, because he was a couple of tables away. I looked at him, and he looked at me and said "what"....I whispered, "I still do LY, that's all" and walked off.
I sent him a short email...saying that I wish things were different and had gone differently this morning...he emailed back that he feels like crap, hopes he can make it till 8 tonight, that we can talk to night or maybe just resting is a better idea.
I don't know what to think. have I blown it? Am I a fool for even thinking it's possible to come out with this? I am numb and exhausted and confused. Have any of you ever heard of this kind of stuff?????? even more, I wonder, has anyone ever made it through?
I need to get an appt made with the attorney, I havent done that yet.
help........................I really feel ill. maybe that would count for something if I was the ow.
I'm sure they're having nice little tete a tetes all day long.
Deb, this has got to be devastating to you again! I'm sorry. I'm wondering what would happen if you chose to see this as part of his grieving process. All those wonderful things he thinks about her will fade over time. He seems to be still committed to working on your M. He trusted you enough to share a lot of stuff with you that he's been holding in. I wonder if that may have given him some relief. How about if you give it 24 hours and then decide what you want to do for you? You let some stuff out too--try to be done with that now. Just watch from a safe distance and see what he does next. Don't hand him your heart just yet. Just watch but keep moving on with your life. I could be totally wrong, but it seems he is trying. Unfortunately he does care about her so of course he would be worried about her. I would hate that too but those are his feelings and there isn't anything you can do to change them. Can you get out tonight? Go out to a movie or visit a friend? Time out for you? I'm sorry Deb, I might not be much help here but I'm feeling your pain and hoping it passes soon.
hi Mollie, thanks. I sure needed to hear from someone. I'm so blown away right now, I cant think straight, again. I wondered if he was saying all that stuff to hurt me, but maybe it was just all the stuff he has pent up with his grief, and he felt close enough to let it out with me. in which case I failed. I guess I should have stopped the conversation. I obviously am not detached from this. I just have a hard time with his vacillation. Sometime in the night he said that sometimes he wants to be there and sometimes he wants to be at our home. He said "we" will be together....but this is driving me nuts. maybe I can go do something tonight, H won't be home till 8 pm or a little after, anyway, so I don't have to see him for a while, although for some sick reason that is always comforting to me.
I need to call the attorneys, but I don't even have privacy here at work to call about an appointment. Maybe I will go home sick and do it. how the hell can things take such an about face so quickly? See, last Thursday was the day his tone changed again, and that was the 1st day after she read the emails on Tuesday that she would speak to him. thats when he pulled back away and started asking me if I was going with him the next day.
Is this part of grieving?????? I really don't know.....
Deb: Check your email
debra
damn it anyway, I have 1 week till the June 1 deadline. I still dont want to give up my H, but I don't know anything to do to turn this around. does anyone see something I don't that I could try?????
I really don't believe that bitch is going to give him up, I think it's just a grandstand play on her part.
Living with this is wearing me out though, that's for sure.
Hi Deb,
I'm sorry you're in the muck...I don't think you've blown it at all...and I think you're holding up admirably to what can only be an incredibly painful time for both of you...it's amazing that h is disclosing so much to you about xow and how he has felt about her (some clues for you for future db'ing too, no?) and while it's open and honest and disclosing...I'm certain that it's enormously hard to hear and raw and disturbing.
I don't think you can rush through it or rush him through it. You have a credible plan...you made it clear to him what needed to happen and in parallel you are working to establish your financial security, put your attorney ducks in a row...I think you need to continue that for a few different reasons...ther is some security in knowing that you have stuck to YOUR plan...and perhaps doing so will keep your mind off of the emotional side of your sitch right now.
I'd say keep doing what you're doing because you are doing really well...I'd suggest STOPPING the conversation with h before you blow, though...it's perfectly fine and not invalidating in the least to say "I need a break from this"...to be clear about how much you can hear at a time...eventually, if this disclosure continues, we may want to look at "Is this helping or hurting" but frankly, for now, I'm thinking of it as cleaning a wound, ya know?
Sage
Deb, if I were you I would just forget about the deadline for now. And don't discuss it with him. Just let it come and go. I made so many deadlines in my mind and I could never stick to them. Let things move naturally without trying to control the outcome and when it happens.
When you see him tonight, smile and ask him how he is. Don't initiate any R talk. If he starts in maybe you can tell him you'd like to just relax tonight and not talk about anything. Act as if you are feeling pretty good today. Don't let on that you are hurting or feeling sad or sorry for yourself--this is pressure on him. Many times I wanted to break down or start asking for reassurance but I knew I had to bite my tongue and get passed it. And don't bad mouth her in front of him, he will probably want to defend her.
Can you make some physical change for yourself? I would buy clothes, get a tan, get my nails done--things I never did before. Some Vic Secret underwear. I loved buying new underwear--made me feel good. I did it for me, not for him. But boy did he notice!
Only you will know when you have had enough and you just can't live with this anymore. But you aren't there now so try to just leave him alone and let him get through this and you keep moving ahead with what you want to do for you.
So do you think he may honestly be trying to end it with her? I've hear that so many times before I just cant believe it any more. WHY would he suddenly start disclosing so much??????????? guilt? grief? just needing someone to talk to????? feeling that he could trust me????? I just cant imagine.
It is raw and awful to hear, but in a way it is helpful, because it helps me to know that my instincts are pretty on track where H is concerned. That in itself is hard to live with though.
If you have time, I'd be interested in knowing what you see that i can use to db with now....frankly, my nose is so close to the paper, that I'm not seeing it right now.
I think I'm going to leave a little early to put a call to the attorneys, I have names of 2 female ones, I'm thinking I'll both just to inquire about how soon I can get an appt, etc.,
Deb -
It's okay to say "look, H, I know you need to talk about this stuff, but it is just really unfair for you to torture me by telling me how much you loved her. You need to talk to someone else who won't be so wounded by what you are saying."
Not that they don't need to talk to us about it - but really, he went way over the line in that convo.
And do go see the attorney - it will help you figure out how to put yourself in a good place financially.
He's lost, confused, and I think if you stick to the high road, he'll get through this. But YOUR behavior has to be so good, kind and unconditionally loving that he can recognize how manipulative and selfish hers is (takes them a while after withdrawal to see this - took my H a few months to admit it).
And you need to make YOUR life so exciting and interesting that it starts to look like someplace he wants to go too.
One thing that helped my H at this stage, sounds silly, but I took a new name, and gave him a new one too. He was "Jacques" and I was "Isabella". Somehow, him being able to think of me as his "new" girlfriend made it easier for him.
Ellie
I've made deadlines in my mind, but this is one I told him. So it's important to make it stick, to at least have the ball ready to roll. I dont know how much more of this I can take.
I have never been to a tanning booth in my life. do you see results fast???? I'm sure it would be unhealthy, I have really fair skin, but what the heck for a change?????
Frankly, I could use some new undies. I bought new outer clothes last week. but undies are not a bad idea at all, it would at least get my mind off of it. actually, last week I saw they had some sheer lavendar tie at the sides panties that would match my Vickie S bra....
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I've made deadlines in my mind, but this is one I told him. So it's important to make it stick, to at least have the ball ready to roll. I dont know how much more of this I can take.
I think that, while deadlines are usually a bad idea, your case may be an exception. It may actually take you saying - in a loving but firm way - "H, I deserve to be treated better than this, I don't plan on sharing my H with another woman any longer, I know I can find a man out there who will love me and S better than this" - in order for him to start to focus on what he's losing in you. (Right now he's only focused on losing OW).
Just don't jump the gun - ie, if H is doing everything right but has, say, a brief phone contact or some similar minor slip that might just be part of the letting go process.
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have never been to a tanning booth in my life. do you see results fast???? I'm sure it would be unhealthy, I have really fair skin, but what the heck for a change?????
Tanning booths cause skin cancer, please don't. But there are great fake tanners out there now (Banana Boat makes a good, cheap one) and they work well if you remember to exfoliate first, and rub some moisturizer on your knees, ankles and elbows first so they don't soak up too much. Makes you look thinner too!
Ellie
I think part of my problem Ellie is being able to believe that he REALLY is letting go of her. If I could believe that, I could live with slip ups and the time it may take, but I dont think he's done a thing about it.
My Dr. would probably choke me if she found out I went to a tanning booth. I have a hard time getting bottle tans that dont turn my skin orange though, for some reason. I bought some neutragena that I thought would be good last week, and it seemed to be less orange, but I still had trouble with it streaking and making dark spots in my pores. what is the Banana boat type that's good? That's probably the one brand I dont think I've tried.
Deb,
Yes, I think your h is ending it and if it seems different this time it's likely because it is.
No one can guarantee you that this is it -- not us here, nor h, no one. The only things you can do you are doing -- focusing on what you can control, getting your ducks in a row, etc.
Sage
I exfoliate really well with apricot scrub first. I use the medium/dark Banana Boat brand, but you may want to start with the lighter one if you are really fair. You can see any streaks as you apply it, so just be thorough about rubbing it in.
Ellie
I agree tanning beds are not good for us--I broke my own rule by doing it. I've had a couple of benign cancers removed from my shoulder from childhood tan/burns. But I was feeling like doing something a little naughty so I went for a couple months. It was kinda fun for awhile. You can also get the spray on tan--I've seen it called Mystic Tan. The girls at the salon do it and they look really good. You stand in a booth and it is sprayed on you in just a minute or two. Totally safe. I haven't tried it yet. I switched over to having my nails done for now.
Great advice you are getting here from special people. It's great how everyone supports each other here. And you got your mind off things for a few minutes anyway, thinking about undies and tans!!! Treat yourself!
Hi Deb,
I read in Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends" that the A. provides a window into the M but there is no similar window for the W into the A.
Dr.Glass wrote that for things to heal there must be a reversal and a window from the M into the A.
I feel that looking at what happend with H in this way may help. I think his sharing is a way of letting go of this secret life.
I can only imagine how hard it must have been to hear but it may be carthartic for him and maybe useful for you to hear.
Agree with Sage its cleansing a wound. But like Ellie says stop him when you have had enough.
If it helps I have prayed that my H would talk to me about the A. and tell me why etc.and what he felt.and would have liked if he coudl do that.
That said, every person is different in how much they want to know about the A.
Hang in there,there is no rush to end your M. If you need to do it you can always do that. For now try and take it one day at a time.
We are all rooting for you.
thanks all, every word you've shared helps a lot. I've read the part about "windows" into the A and the M, and I think that's why I usually feel better when H does talk about it. I don't know, I just couldnt hear about the poor poor victimized ow last night though. So, yes, I will have to stop him. I had a thought about something he told me that i could use in dbing, and I'm so tired I cant remember it now. hopefully it will come to me soon. I gotta go pick up S's bike from the shop, then I'm gonna call the attorney.
thanks Ellie, I just saw this, an interesting idea and important reminder.
Hi Ellie - So often, I wish your earlier threads were not lost
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But YOUR behavior has to be so good, kind and unconditionally loving that he can recognize how manipulative and selfish hers is (takes them a while after withdrawal to see this - took my H a few months to admit it).
NG is going through this, i'll post in a bit more detail over at my place, but until I saw this post, I had no idea that it was 'normal' for this thing to take a few months to surface. Ugh.
Slowly
Thanks so much all of you for your help and support. I have absolutely no doubt that we'd be divorced by now if it wasnt for you all.
I havent heard from H this morning, which makes me anxious. I'm having a really tough time keeping a lid on my anxiety these days, I have to admit that after his disclosure Monday night about them having only been apart for 2 weeks in the past 2 years, that I am absolutely terrified that he'll be right back with her. and not hearing from him only adds to that, but obviously it didnt make much difference any way.
Darn this is hard.
Gee, still havent gotten my note of apology from ow. am I surprised? I'd thought I wouldnt read it anyway, but I have to admit I might not be able to resist.
OK, just got an email from him, not very spicy, but at least one asking how I'm doing.
I am kicking myself for having missed an opportunity the other night when H was sharing all that stuff with me. I fear I may have shut him down for good, and that was my window into what's really going on with him. I don't know if he'll ever feel safe to open up with me again. my fear is that he wont. however, I did ok with a lot of it, most of it in fact. I'm not sure what it was that trigged my buttons, I think it may have been his middle of the night comment, after hours of listening to how wonderful the poor wronged soul is, that I needed to be nice to her.
actually I'm pretty positive that's it.
The June 1 deadline also adds to my anxiousness. and how to handle it. will I ask him the status of "it" then???? will I accept progress, as in he's home on the weekends, or is it all or nothing? I don't like all or nothing, but i'm not sure at this point.
Ellie, this is so helpful:
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But YOUR behavior has to be so good, kind and unconditionally loving that he can recognize how manipulative and selfish hers is (takes them a while after withdrawal to see this - took my H a few months to admit it).
Plus the bit about excitement. I'm putting on my thinking cap for these.
so, to update the sitch, not a lot to report really. i did go by new undies, body scrub and a loofa and some bannana boast self tanner. I havent had time yet to use the tanner, but I sure like the smell better than the other stuff. Hopefully tonight I can give it a try.
When H came home from his "long day", he looked at me with "searching" eyes, I don't know how to describe it, but the same ones I saw when I walked into staff meeting yesterday and when he looked over at me as we were walking out. probably wondering if it was safe to walk in the door, I'd guess. H and S were talking, and I walked over and stood beside H, just listening. He put his arm around my shoulder, and acutually held it there firmly, almost a hug. nice.
He asked after he did his treadmill if I wanted to watch tv with him, I told him sure, if he'd wake me up...we only lasted about 1/2 hour because we were both so pooped from not sleeping Monday night. went to bed, H took his shirt off before he got in bed, pulled me close to his front and snuggled me. We wound up ML again, at his initiation, and he had no "performance problems". that's three days in a row. I remember Snodderly talking about "sexathons". I dont understand the "why" of this, and puzzle about it sometimes. But I have to say, I like it! and, in one of the emails (gage) I read from h to ow, he told her that he saw sex as a way to get close to another person and stay close. so, after I've stopped throwing up, I've decided to put that information in my db arsenal. Acutally this was an email I found recently, and I've had that in my arsenal for a long time before that. Needless to say, between being exhausted and good sex, we both slept fine last night.
This morning, I stood in the doorway to the bath and watched H shave...my mind a buzz of thoughts....he said "what"...I told him I was just mulling many things over. I did backslide, sigh, and ask him if he was going back/was back with her...he started to get irritated, as always, asked why I was asking that, I told him I'm just scared as heck right now. h said "no I'm not and I'm not going back" (how will I ever believe him?????) "I'm just holding things inside right now." I told him I want to be able to support him and for him to be able to talk with me...h said no, he had been foolish to to it, but he'd just had a bad day because he wasnt busy enough and had no one to share it with, that he should have known better, it was too much, too close, and too soon. I told him I wanted him to be able to share with me, and to be able to support him. that I was sorry I'd let him down in that way and that I would be able to get past it, it just kind of hit me at a low point at the time. h said he knew, he agreed about the sharing and support, but right then was not the time, he was trying to focus on getting ready for work...told him I knew, understood, but just wanted him to know.
later on, I dumped the new undies out of the shopping bag onto the bed (didnt even get them put away last night, but maybe that's ok) and was picking out something to wear as I usually do outerwear. H said "what, you bought new underwear?" I told him, yep, I thought it was time for something different. h said "well, you used to wear them a lot longer than that" (weird) & I just chuckled and said "yep, but I'm different now"...h said he thought that was a pretty VG (meaning Valley Girl) thing to do, going underwear shopping (he's referring to a female coworker here who is an infamous shopper)...I just chuckled again and told him I was taking lessons...h said "well lets see then" so I put on the bra I'd picked out, and he said it had "possibilities"...not sure what that means, but he did notice! and it was something different. I swear it's hard to find sexy underwear that is functional in this town. sheesh.
H hugged me and kissed me and said ILY first before he left for work. I told him I wanted him to know that I do "love you lots"...he said he did (that's a change from way back when, when he claimed I didnt love him), why would I think he doubted that...I told him I didnt, just wanted him to know. As he was leaving, he made some comment in reference to sex "we've become pretty frequent flyers, that's kinda cool". I just said "it's a great program!" and chuckled.
I guess there's a lot of good here. do you all think???? On the down side, I think I saw a bunch of new emails in his brief case. I WAS NOT snooping, he sat it on the dining room table and unzipped it in front of me last night. I would have had to close my eyes not to see. Maybe he's baiting me??????? I have an awfully hard time dealing with the terror that he is/will be soon back w/ow.
Quit Looking in That DITCH!!!!
Keep your eyes on the white line in the middle of the road if you want to keep this motorcycle going in a straight line, Missy!
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This morning, I stood in the doorway to the bath and watched H shave...my mind a buzz of thoughts
The two worst times to start these types of convos - when he's rushing to go to work, and when you're both tired at night in bed. Just don't do it.
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. h said "well, you used to wear them a lot longer than that" (weird) & I just chuckled and said "yep, but I'm different now"...h said he thought that was a pretty VG (meaning Valley Girl) thing to do, going underwear shopping (he's referring to a female coworker here who is an infamous shopper)...I just chuckled again and told him I was taking lessons...h said "well lets see then" so I put on the bra I'd picked out, and he said it had "possibilities"...not sure what that means, but he did notice!
I was always way too frugal and practical, took me a long time to realize that H WANTED me to be a little girly - and HE was probably tired of my old clothes!
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I swear it's hard to find sexy underwear that is functional in this town. sheesh.
That's why you can order online from Victoria's Secret! I know they're pricey - but really worth it - plus I think their bras are on sale right now.
In fact - you might want to get a V.S. catalogue and ask for his input
Ellie
Oh, Ellie, I know you are absolutely right about the white line, and about the worst times for conversation......I gotta get back on the horse (or cycle) and get things under control.
About the undies, yep, you're right, H would SAY he likes a person who is not a "fancy dresser", which is exactly one of ow's many virtues that I got to have extolled to me the other night. HOWEVER, I have come to realize that in this instance what he SAYS and what he REALLY thinks is not the same thing. In fact, we used to get Vickie S. catalogs that were addressed to D, and I noticed they became a part of his bathroom reading material
; and in fact we used to look through them together some. We havent gotten any for a while, and I completely forgot about them. So, I think I'll check out their website and order one to get things started. hmmmmmm
I had a light bulb moment as I was coming back from my meeting.
For the last week, I have been pondering what on earth I said to H in my emails last week that would have sent ow bawling and crying from his office, that she would have said was more devastating than her divorce. I couldnt come up with a thing....I said NOTHING to get that kind of response. NOTHING. I said I loved him more than he knew (surely she wouldnt be surprised by that), I said I was having a hard time because I figured he was planning to be with her on her bday, I said I didnt know what i could say to him that she hadnt already said. I said nothing at all disparaging about her, nothing to elicit such a response.
So, I've been wondering, what would have?
then it hit me....she read not only 3 of my emails to h, but a thread of the three with his responses to me in there. HIS RESPONSES are what upset her. what did he tell me?????? He said that he thought WE were on the right track, just for me to please not stress out and over react right now; he said that he did love me, that I've been the steady one in his life all these years and that he appreciates that greatly. he said that he admired my courage and devotion and efforts to convey my thoughts to him. He said, specifically, that he thought it would be really nice if I could come with him on Friday, and that he would like it.
OK, so if I was the ow and read the guys emails to his wife to this extent, how would I react????? I'd be OUTTA THERE with no looking back, I'd be pissed beyond words, I'd be in tears, I'd feel like a fool who's been used and allowed herself to be used for 2 years, and yes, I'd probably storm out of the office in tears.
Will it be enough to keep her from going back to him????? I don't know, I can only hope, but she seems to be extremely dense.
This explains also H's intensified guilt and grief, why he's so worried about her...
It's the only explanation that makes any sense. duh
just curious, does this make sense to anyone but me????
Yeah, it makes perfect sense - because undoubtedly what he's been telling her (that your marriage was dead years ago, that he was only staying for the sake of his son, etc. etc. - the usual B.S., I'm sure) didn't match up with his loving and appreciative responses to his loving wife. And now she's realizing what an idiot she has been - and H, I'm sure, is feeling guilty for having mislead her (although I'm sure he believed it at the time).
Just keep your eyes on the road. Don't diss the OW to your H, stick to the high road, don't sink to her level.
Ellie
boy, I keep beating myself up about blowing it night before last when I got so upset at H's sharing. Darn it, anyway. I really missed a chance to get some insight and new ideas by causing him to clam up. I'm not sure how I'll ever get him to open up again. any tips any one can offer???? Is it possible to ever get him to open up again?????
I'm thinking of Ellie's earlier post:
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But YOUR behavior has to be so good, kind and unconditionally loving that he can recognize how manipulative and selfish hers is (takes them a while after withdrawal to see this - took my H a few months to admit it).
I see how important this is. I just wish I had been able to manage better. I guess I just wasnt prepared. I also hope I didnt send him the excuse he needs to run right back to her. It really was/is a missed opportunity. I've been thinking/wondering about how to increase nonsexual intimacy, he finally opens up, and I do that. darn darn darn darn and damn!
Oh, quit beating yourself up - he really was being pretty inappropriate and insensitive. (Gosh, I remember helping my H compose a goodbye letter to OW - YUCK!).
Pull yourself together - plan to greet him tonite with good music, nice food, looking and smelling good - think about setting a mood like one of those nice stores that convince you to buy everything in sight because it smells so good and the music is so peaceful. Think MERCHANDISING, girl!
Sell him on you! Presentation is important.
Ellie
yeah, Ellie I know. In fact I'm thinking I gotta crawl back up to the high road. I've been able to avoid dissing her to him for a long time....not said a derogatory word about her...but it sure came out yesterday morning. I don't know though, I didnt really say anything to bad about her, just that everybody has health problems and I didnt see how hers were any worse than anyone elses, and what kind of a person uses stuff like that to break up a family (evidently she has high blood pressure and has to take 2 meds...well, so do I, mine are just combined into one. has migraines and bad pms...yeah, well, join the club, poor baby) that I saw it as hugely manipulative. and I said that I didnt agree that their A/getting together was God's doing, and that the bible provided some pretty clear guidelines in recognizing such things when it talks about the fruits of the spirit and maybe one or both of them ought to check it out.
So, I blew my cork, and pretty well dissed her, but it could have been worse. I didnt call her any of the names that were on the tip of my tongue. yeeesh, I still can feel the steam coming out of my ears when I recall him saying "you need to be nice to her, she sent me back" that night. That's what blew the cork out of the bottle.
Ok, that's my vent. back up onto the high road.
I think we're cross posting here, Ellie. But I love your spirit, you sure can pull me up!!!! merchandizing...yep...presentation is important. hmmmm. I am starting to think more along those lines, I turned on the oil diffuser and candle warmer before I left the house this morning, so it should smell nice when we get home. I put a candle H really likes on the warmer.
Gotta remember to touch up my make up.
I've been thinking about your comment about making my life exciting so he wont' want to miss it. mulling around some ways to spice things up a little more. I had to back off a little in the sex life department because he was in his "insulted because you think all I'm interested in is sex" phase...but I'm thinking he's past that now, especially evidenced by his comment this morning.
so, I'm thinking i'm going to work on being more "girlish"...finger nails, new undies, smelling good, etc., and, what to do differently....
hmmmmm....the tanner; we were watching tv the other night and saw a jazz cd adevertised, talked about it as a "mood setter"...H watched closely, actually commented "interesting", so theres another thought.
I have a catalog that has a video tape on exotic dancing in it; maybe I'll order that....plus I saw several others. i don't have a clue about such things, I dont' know how much of a clue H has, but I bet I might be able to surprise him.
ummmm, hmmmm, I could order some lingerie and have it sent to his out of town office. THAT would surprise him. actually, I could order him some kind of gift and have it sent to his out of town office. maybe I could find a place that delivers lunch that he would like and have that sent to him as a surprise....I dunno, is this too much???????? obviously pursueing, but I've never tried any of those things, and maybe now is the time. I can always not do it again if I get a bad response.
oh, I've been going to "kidnap" him forever and havent. well, there is this really cool redone homestead way out in the country about an hour from us. It was written up in the paper. I think H would like it, it looks abosolutely gorgeous, with walking trails through the woods. maybe I will make a reservation for the 2 of us....S is going to stay w/D soon for a month, and have him drive there after church, or even on a Friday. I could pack a backpack with new jeans/short/shirt/undies toiletries for him, so he wouldnt suspect anything. I guess I'd have to be prepared to have that go awry. of course I could always just go by myself, not an entirely bad thought either.
too much??????????????????? something to try????????????? Just last week he was talking about us needing to do fun things together, so if he's not gone back to her, maybe this would start the ball rolling....????????????
hmmmmm, do they make fake tatoos a person could put on an unexpected body part, just for a fun little shock of surprise????? where would i get them??????
I gave him a copy of "The Prophet" that I bought 6 months ago and hadnt given him. he liked it, mentioned yesterday he had read some of it. I was surprised he isnt familiar with it, but he'd never even heard of it. It's one of my favorites. I've always liked Ogden Nash's poetry, maybe I could surprise H with some of that, I bet he'd like it and isnt familiar with that either. I guess it's just sharing a tiny bit of a side of me he doesnt know........
I am having such a hard time today...I am as anxious as I was right after the bomb I think. I'm not sure why, no, actually I take that back, I know why: H was aboslutely happy with his life and everything in it last night. How can he go from being so devastated on Monday evening, weeping and crying, to everything being so great by Wednesday? I don't think he can other than if he's back w/ow. this is what i've seen before so many times.
I also don't get any "warmth" in his emails again, I'm just getting the business like ones, the "we'll be better if we can get some sleep" kind, although this morning he did tell me "you can relax"....this whole mess is making me nuts. not to mention the fact that they just moved a whole bunch more people into my cubicle area at work, and it's driving me nuts. I don't do well with noise any way, and between the constant mindless chatter and one persons country music, I'm about to lose it.
I don't know, maybe I'm better off to just throw in the towel and get it over with.
I actually feel sick to my stomach from the anxiety right now.
I dont' know, any words to the wise???????
has anybody else made it through these???? I swear it's like a flash back, the anxiety. Part of the problem is I keep thinking of her going over to meet him at the out of town office on Saturdays for lunch when he was there. gee, I wonder what happened?????????????
Lots of ASSumptions here - maybe he's happy because he's finally at peace knowing he's made the right decision, and having sex with you?
As for your cubicle - can you get earplugs, or use those noise-canceling headphones? What can you do to improve the environment for you?
Also - what can you do to take care of yourself? All this anxiety will NOT help your H come home. (I took a long bubble bath with a glass of wine the other night, and it did wonders for my mood).
Ellie
I am trying to recall and focus on Ellies advice to keep my eyes on the line in the middle of the road, not the ditch.
yes, I gotta get some headphones. except then I dont' know about hearing the phone ring. I'm wondering if I can find a place to get the lights that flash when it rings that people with hearing problems use?
I'm thinking of what else I could do for myself....not sure at this point. all these people here just drive me nuts, I don't do well with distractions and noise anyway, and when I'm anxious, it really puts me over the edge.
Ellie, do you think it's time to try some "spicy" stuff????? sending lingerie to H, etc?????
Or is it too early???? would that be too pursuing?
Okay - confession time - at the risk of appearing stupid before thousands of people - here's what I did once:
H and I went out to dinner. Being flirtatious. I went to the bathroom, and when I came back, I slipped my thong into his pocket.
H REALLY liked that. Couldn't wait to finish dinner and get home with me. And still has that thong in his truck to this very day! (I think he especially liked it because it was very out of character for me - I tend to be too serious amd conservative).
I think that might work better than mailing it to him.
Ellie
I've been out of the office and then busy, so am just now getting back. I did pick up some ear plugs at lunch, and that helps a tiny bit.
I don't know if I should stay more backed off or just "let loose" with H....I swear I think, as some have suggested here, I just need a week away from EVERYTHING to hibernate...not sure how on earth I could arrange that though.
I want the hot steamy emails ow gets/got from him....I got one about an hour ago just saying he'd gone for a walk over lunch hour, and reminding me to pick up a furnace filter. darn it....I havent even responded to that one.
I just really don't understand. H has never been the "romantic" type, but he sure is with her. how's come I don't get that????? does that mean he's still connected with her????? will I ever get it????? will he get tired of it?????
I was thinking this afternoon, he said this morning "well you can relax" in reference to my anxiety.
before he left, he made a naughty reference that maybe we'd have a chance for some "heavy duty f-----" this weekend. I was sitting on the bed putting on hose, and I'm sure I looked at him with shock on my face, but I did manage to say "is that a challenge"? to which he replied "yes, if you're up to it"...I told him I liked challenges.
what is it with the sexathon stuff though???????????? I really dont' get it......6 months or a year ago he would throw fits that "its not all about sex" and he was insulted that I thought "it's all about sex"......?????????
So what, now the wife is for sex and the ow is for chores around the house????
I don't know, don't know what to think.
I was thinking of ordering some naughty lingerie from the internet and having it delivered to his office. but maybe that isnt a good idea. be my luck he'd take it to ow. I just do not understand. He does seem eager for sex, told me last weekend or the weekend before that ow "got tired of it, he guessed he couldnt blame her"??????????
Is it possible for him to go from weeping and mourning all night to being so happy in 2 days if he isnt back with her????? the guys nuts and it's getting on my last good nerve.
I did find some interesting "naughty" lingerie on the net, along with videos on erotic dance. maybe I'll order those just for fun if nothing else.
I must have tried to call one of the attorneys this afternoon 2 dozent times and her line was busy the whole time. The woman needs another line. I may go out to my car and try to call again from my cell phone. blehhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm tired of this stuff. I want my H back, unencumbered by ow....
I'm really unsure of what to do next....keep on as I have been?
"act as if"????, step up the pursuit????? change directions and back waaaaayyyyy off? I dunno........
Have I made progress here lately, do you all think????? I'm honestly not sure. what I'd been really trying to do for the last several months was make no mention of ow/a and just act "as if"....but then last weekend (weekend before?) H told me he had no intention of deciding, he was going to just let things go on as they were, he figured he could "keep that thing (the A) toned down there" and keep up with things here and keep everybody happy, but now he sees he can't do that.?????????????????????
I really am unsure how to respond in light of the new info that's come up the last couple of weeks. this damned A has been going on for 2 years now!
Whoa there! Gotta slow down the mind a bit. Lots of ASSuming going on. I totally understand cuz I do it still too when H doesn't come home right when I think he should. It is soooo hard. You have to keep working on the trust and patience. It hasn't been very long since he told you he was ending it with her. I know you want instant fix but it just doesn't happen like that. His moods may be up and down for quite a while.
I believe most men want to ML with their wives to get closer and be comforted. Personally, I would go with it and have fun with it. One morning I "accidentally" let my H see new underwear while I was zipping my jeans. He never said a word and went off to work. But that night it was quite obvious he had been thinking about them all day! So don't send them--keep them with you (on you). I loved ellie's idea--I might try that some time!
As far as what should you do next?--what has been working? Keep doing it! I think you've made lots of progress but I know how it feels to want everything to be over and back to normal. It just can't happen that fast.
If your anxiety is getting the best of you, see your doctor for a little temporary help, or talk to someone you trust. Just go do something and get your mind off of it. Do something that really requires your concentration and focus.
You say the A has been going on for two years but I think he said it was over didn't he. I know it might be hard to believe, but act as if you do and see what happens.
Try to enjoy every moment with him--make him feel special, like you adore him. My H eats that up and he is a lot kinder than he used to be. Keep up the good work! I know you can do it!
Hi Mollie. I know you are right on the money about so much stuff here, but what is really getting to me is that this is the 5th time I have heard that it's over...maybe even 6th. I can quote the dates....lets see, June 6 2004; that time he bawled and carried on like a baby for a whole weekend, I actually held him like a little kid for days at a time then. wham he cheered up and was back w/her by the time we left for vacation two weeks later. Labor day weekend, last fall....pretty much the same story, he tells me "this other thing is over"...and I know because of emails I found that they were back together by 9/15 or 16. let's see, next time would be I believe December 23...I found out about an out of state trip he took with her and read him the riot act, got the "it's over" song and dance and crying routine....January 27 or 28/05....I confronted him because I realized he was taking his ring off when ever he was at work....(he still hasnt worn it for 6 weeks now) and got a song and dance number about "its over, she asked him not to rub it in her face" so he didnt wear it around her
; April 20, 2005, I confront him when he makes all kinds of last minute excused not to attend the required annual dinner meeting here at work. I got there, realize the w---e wasnt there either, went home steamed, confronted him, go the "it's over" spiel repeated about 5 times that night, then saw a phone bill where they'd been on the phone for an hour 2 days before the meeting. coincidence????? and now....all this comes after she read my emails to him, his to me, 9 days ago....only thing that's different is his email from earlier that "you can rest assured that the other relationship has been addressed and taken care of for good"....I cant seem to help thinking "yeah right"....this just seems to me like an inordinate amount of time and lies told, I don't know, maybe it's not. I wish I knew. Obviously, I believe, my acting as if and choosing not mention ow/a was helping to maintain his idiotic idea that he could keep both his M and his A going.
I really dont know what to do. I hate like hell to give up on my M, I really do love him, but........?????
Has anyone ever gotten it back together after this long?????
ok, I got an appt with the attorney for a consult for next Thursday, June 2....apt timing, I guess. I'd sure rather spend the "mad money" on naughty undies than talking to her. but, I need to find out some stuff.
I hope this gal is good, I kinda know her/of her. the preist said she is, is thorough and thoughtful but "won't back down or be pushed around"....so, maybe that's what I need.
oh, wow, H is a grumpy gritchy growly bear this morning. I don't know what brought this on, I don't know if it's good or bad or nothing or what it's related to. He did tell me a couple of weeks ago that he's usually grumpy with me when things are not good w/ow because he's angry with her. ?????? who knows...
He was complaining about money, about the plumber we have to have this morning, about the cost, about living with finances so tight, about work, about bills. This is so out of the blue.
Last night when I got home he was ok, even talkative, cheerful, laughing, and initiated ml....now he's just spewing anger and discontent.
I just listened, did make some suggestions (big no no, I gotta get back to remembering not to do that)and he apologized for being so out of sorts, said he was just in a bad mood, couldnt he have a day in a bad mood....I smiled and said "no, never" jokingly, and hugged and kissed him.
Do they do this if they HAVE broken up with the op?
I've been thinking about what Ellie said on her thread about change....what I can change.........I don't know for sure, Ive been working on changing me, now I'm trying to think of more things I could do differently. Hard to come up with much.
I had thought of asking H this morning if we could talk sometime soon; it didnt take me long to decide this was NOT the OPTIMUM time to make a request like that.
I have a hard time containing my irritation at his ranting about finances sometimes though. Especially when I know he's paid some of ow's bill, bought her contacts...and when I was doing the taxes and going through old bank statements and checks, it became obvious that last spring he was spending 150 - 250 bucks PER WEEK at the convenience store/gas station....incredible. A couple of times it even came out to around $275.00. phone cards, I'm sure, he must have also been buying her gasoline and groceries there, is all I can figure out. sucks. really makes me po'd. our budget absorbed that for a long long time, and now I get to lesson to him piss and moan about us being broke and how "she manages to pay her bills on what she makes"............I guess I oughta hang on to those checks, I have them in a box, but not sorted out. still kinda makes me ill.
I have never mentioned this to him, it would just make him angry and defensive and more irrational. but it sure is a temptation when he throws this stuff out to me.
Is there any "knowledge" I can pick up, use, relating to H's mood swings????
in other words, I guess I'm "pondering"...is this typical???? typical in what context? that he's mourning her? that he's angry at me? both?
If he's in mourning, they must have broken up. If he's angry at me, would it be because of a breakup, or????? because he's angry that I let him down by getting upset at his sharing the other night? that he feels "trapped"? which would mean the mlc must still be raging, right?
questions questions and more questions.
Deb, way too much analyzing going on. Try to go about your business and let him work it out. Validate whatever he says right now. You see that suggestions don't make him very happy so keep it to yourself. I see what you mean about how many times you have been through the "it's over" thing. But you haven't given up yet, right? So unless you are going to give up, I think the only way throught this for you is to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I don't know if his behavior is typical, but I'm thinking it doesn't really matter if it is or isn't. It's what you do that matters. Keep your distance when he is grouchy. Let him come to you when he's ready. Let him see that you are safe and you aren't going to try to fix him.
hi deb,
hope you are doing well today.
i know that there is alot going on, and your emotions are being pulled in a million different directions, so if you can, breath and place some more focus on you.
you know you love him, and you want everything to work out. and even with your complete commitment, dont you still have days where you want to throw in the towel? he is human and will go through days like this too.
he was grumpy, well we all get grumpy sometimes. it doesnt mean the sky is falling. moods come and go.
let's say you had a crystal ball, and you knew 100% that he really did end it with OW and there was no chance of him going back, not only that, you knew he was completely head over heels for just you and completely happy with that, how would your actions and feelings be then?
would you treat him differently? would you act differently?
i am not suggesting that you open your soul, but maybe if you look at it this way you may have a better time acting "as if".
do you deserve as many reassurances as you feel you need, ABSOLUTLY. you deserve them, but is that really the best thing for your sitch now? maybe not. maybe by not asking for the reassurances, you can assure yourself that you are giving him the space he needs. and that is what will help you most right now.
remember, he cant make you happy, just happier. so if you are unhappy right now, anxious, nervous, terrified, then maybe you are putting too much on him and not enough on you. what did you do to find happiness when he was gone?
how can you do more of that, so his actions dont fill your whole life? how can you stop analizing everything he does and pull that focus back on you?
you are doing great, look how far you have come!!
kellyagain
Hi all, I havent any time to post, thought I'd just jot a quick note. Thank you Mollie and Kellie, everything you say is so on target. I struggle so much with the fact that we've been together so long, i cant visualize my life with out him no matter how hard I try. I hope I don't have to learn to. I also keep thinking I just don't know how much more of this I can take....
anyway, H SWEARS it is over....Sunday, S left with D to spend a month, and we were both in tears... I told H it just brought home to me how much I didnt want us to be apart. not A GOOD thing to say I"m sure...Sunday morning, H walked for about 3.5 hours, which upset me. I wouldnt be surprised if somehow/somewhere the "walk" involved some contact w/ow, because while he was gone I ran an errand, and he came out of the house when I pulled in the drive way and pulled me to him...we were both kind of tearful, he suggested we should do something fun...go to the lake--the next day....
come monday, he didnt want to go, because it was cloudy, he said...however, he did ask me to walk with him, took me to his weight room and showed me an exercise he recommends (that's a first, he used to make it clear he didnt want me around there), Put together a book shelf ON HIS OWN with no asking/prompting from me (gots lots of admiration for it!) and held my hand as we watched tv in the evening--we were sitting in separate chairs, and he reached across and took my hand. and held it.
I commented that I am still struggling with my fear and anxiety, and he said "you don't need to" ....I asked him what he would do if she wants to start back up, and he didnt directly answer my question, just said, "she doesnt want to, nothings happened in 2 years and she's not interested in going any longer"....so I don't know what to think.
I pray he's telling me the truth. something still feels "different" this time, though.
Pray for me, gals! (guys)
gotta go for now....
Quote:
I commented that I am still struggling with my fear and anxiety, and he said "you don't need to" ....I asked him what he would do if she wants to start back up, and he didnt directly answer my question, just said, "she doesnt want to, nothings happened in 2 years and she's not interested in going any longer"....so I don't know what to think
Hey Girlfriend .. you are going to drive yourself AND your H crazy if you don't stop with the all of the struggling/questioning. While I know that dropping all of this is much easier said than done .. I'm thinking that it's looking like it's your time to finally do this. .. AND I mean really do this ! You need to do this within yourself, so that you are not reflecting your fears outwardly. I'm not sure if I ever mentioned it .. but, I went on medication (antidepressent/anxiety prescription) for about one year. It truly helped me so that my anxiety was not so overwhelming .. did not get the best of me. It got to a point (at first) that all of my agonizing resulted in all kinds of health problems cropping up. Another thing that helped was positive self-talk. It's amazing how repeating positive statements constantly to yourself will actually start you thinking/believing those things!
If your S is gone for a month, won't this give you an opportunity to try different GAL techniques?
You DO have my prayers, Deb. Hang in there!!
Hey Deb,
I just peeked in on the board yesterday and read through your threads as well as livnlearn's.
I got away from the board as I wasn't really finding much here to help me any more.
I have gotten a life, although it looks to be w/o H. H and OW are no longer together but his head is totally screwed up.
If you will permit me to be frank I am going to tell it like I see it.
Over the past year I have seen your story repeat itself over and over again when your H claims to be no longer w/ ow, you say something feels different, but to put it frankly it doesn't really look any different to me.
There have no been any consequences and no real boundaries that I can see.
He continues on with her, swears its over when it isn't, and you continue putting on the sexy lingerie and giving it to him real good.
Part of dbing was supposed to be monitoring what works and you running after him telling him how much you love him, how badly you want to be with him etc isn't doing it.
Is this the life you want to have?
Are you content, at peace?
If not then as painful as it is you are going to have to be the one to set up the boundaries.
Right now he is having his cake, eating it too, got two women after him, and only having to deal with the midly painful emotional erruptions from both of them.
Girlfriend where is your self respect? There is such a thing as saving your M at any cost, but do you really want your S to see that you are a weak willed wimpy doormat that tolerates long term infidelity?
Why would your H want to chose you when you have made it pretty much clear that he doesn't have to choose. That you just love him so much that you will put up with it all.
I am just saying it like I see it, I am not trying to bring you down. My M may be about over, but I have found myself, including my self respect, my personal integrity, and a whole big skill set that was lurking under the surface.
I read something somewhere that I really like and this is it:
In God's economy, I am beachfront property!
And so are you, Deb.
love ya,
Pam
Deb, seems like he is wanting to spend more time with you. I think this is a good thing. Either he is enjoying your company or he is trying to and I think this is good too. Just keep working on leaving things alone. Trust is hard and you don't have to achieve it overnight, but try to act as if anyway. It's great that you showed your appreciation to him for putting up the shelf. I believe men love to be appreciated. In fact, I just got Michelle's Keeping Love Alive tapes and was reminded of this today as I listened. So far the KLA is a great reminder and I recommend it.
Anyway, I keep working on appreciating and trying to make him feel he is my favorite person in the world. But leaving him alone is the best way I can do that. Letting him make choices for himself and trusting him to consider me when he makes those choices. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't.
It isn't a perfect thing by any means. I've got some boundaries I want to set too, but I haven't figured out quite how to do it yet. I still wonder if he is spending time with someone else when he doesn't come home right when I think he should. Drives me nuts! And I know it is my insecurity that makes me think that way. So I gotta keep working on that too. If I found out he was up to something I would be devastated all over again but I have to relax and believe it isn't going to happen. I've got to enjoy every minute and not worry about what might happen in the future cuz I have no control over it.
Keep working on GAL and maybe see your doc about antidepressents. I agree with Totally, they have helped me alot too.
Try not to obsess so much about him. I find myself doing it sometimes and have to really talk myself out of it. Keep working on being happy with you, it will come. PATIENCE
Hi Pamila
Nice to see you here... any chance of an update? I would really like to know what changed in you. There are some posters on this board who have found they no longer want to DB, (they don't want their Hs back ultimately), and feel that DBing may have been just akin to being a doormat in their case. Thoughts?
Deb - sorry to hijack.
Livnlearn
Hi TC...thanks for stopping in...I always appreciate your help and wisdom. to be honest, the AD's do help a lot to even out my mood swings, the anxiety and depression, anymore I notice the anxiety being evened out the most, maybe the depression is being taken care of. Now, here's my true confession: I have a bottle of prozac sitting on the bathroom counter. havent taken it for several months? why? I have lots of excuses...from thinking i'm fine so I don't need it any more, to feeling that it makes me kind of "shut down" (which would not a bad thing at the moment) to that it makes me sleepy (the biggest issue), to just plain old resistance issues. bottom line: you're absolutely right, I need to take it, and I will get back on it, tonight.
yes, with S being gone for a "spell", it will give opportunities for a number of different things...and I'm planning on trying some. going to workout more often for a start, since I won't be worrying about getting him picked up, etc..
Hey Pam, good to hear from you, some interesting points you bring up. hmmmmmmmmm, I am digesting them. they bring up a lot of thoughts.
yep, you're right, it's reared it's nasty head up over and over again. Drives me up the wall. What I've seen on the board it that for most people it does seem to be a process of letting go of the op that they arent able to do all at once. So it becomes a question of what am I able to live with to get to that point. Some days I'm clearer about that than others. part of clarifying that is writing about it so that I'm not dumping it at H, which gives him more control over it.
I am also convinced, no doubt in my mind, that the A is a symptom of mlc...if a lbs choose to try to ride the tide out, some things need to be done differently. and it's a darn long hard road that shakes you to your toes. I've gotten a lot of guidance from the Conway books, Men in Midlife Crisis by Jim, and You and Your Husbands Midlife Crisis by Sally.
lets see...no boundaries and no consequences, I have to think about that one for a minute. maybe not, or maybe I havent set timelines on them that feel "right" to other people. I told him long ago this was not acceptable, and I didnt intend to live the rest of my life dealing with it. Did I say "if it goes on for....I'm out of here" no...should I have? maybe. Would it have gotten the results I want from my H? nope. because I would have been saying it to try to get him to do what I want him to do, absolutely guaranteed to send him into "rebel with or without a cause" mode. he has had consequences to deal with, internal consequences that are much worse than any I could have set up (because he does still have a conscience) and are more likely to in the end be the kind that effect a lasting change...how soon that end will come is hard to predict. What are his consequences? physical illnesses the likes of which he's never had before; inability to do his job; guilt..huge massive overwhelming guilt; the confusion of trying to lie to cover up his duplicity; loss of respect from his co-workers, fear, loss of self respect for knowing he's the bad guy no matter how he cuts the cake; and frankly the rath of ow, which I think can be pretty hot.
bottom line: I still WANT him back, but he has to want to be back. HOW on earth could he want to be back with someone who brings about all those negatives in his life? Much better battle plan to let the consequences be self and God imposed for the most part.
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your M at any cost, but do you really want your S to see that you are a weak willed wimpy doormat that tolerates long term infidelity?
excellent question, one that I've considered at greater lengths than anyone will ever know. What I want my children to understand is that as followers of Christ we are called to walk a path that is often difficult at best, that often requires self sacrifice and courage of a type that is sneered at by the world. We've spent much time discussing the parable of the prodigal son and what that means in our daily, personal lives. here on my bulletin board at work I have a handout that S brought me from his religion class that I reflect on daily. It's called "A Moral Guide to Patience" and refers to Exodus 17:3: "In their thirst for water, the people grumbeld against Moses, saying, "why did you ever makes us leave Egypt". The discussion that follows is: The bible tells the very human story of the Hebrew people who, despite their relationship with God, had difficult times and were tempted to give up. When Yahweh did not respond to their needs quickly enough, some of them turned to other gods. Families often want instant results. We pray, but if we don't see an immediate response, we get discouraged. but God gradually builds situations that are the best for us. Through out thousands of years of human difficulties, God has kept and fulfilled his covenant." that somehow speaks to me quite clearly about my sitch. We also have a handout that talks about King David, and how important his example can be in dealing with difficulties in everyday life, ie, that it's important to first ask God IF you SHOULD fight a battle, listen closely, and THEN FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS in the battle he directs you to fight. and Christs answer to his disciples when they asked how many times they should forgive someone who wrongs them sticks with me. Wasnt it 70 times 70?. So, maybe the kids will see me as a wimp; maybe they will see me as someone who had the guts to put the rubber to the pavement and walk the talk even though it was really tough. I guess time will tell. Oh, yeah, that's another hideous consequence that i didnt have to impose on H: his kids dispise beyond words the ow. there in nothing in this world she could ever do to redeem herself in their eyes. and H has lost several degrees of respect as well. he knows that. I don't have to say a word.
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Are you content, at peace?
Actually, interestingly, there are times when I am, when the sun is shining and I'm thinking about all the possiblities the future holds, and I realize that inspite of my frustration and impatience God is working on this according to the big picture, when my family--yes, h and I and the kids--is enjoying closeness that we havent known for probably ten years, talking about issues and ideas and stories and getting excited about them, I actually have moments of pure and blissful joy. moments...I would like many more of them, that's for sure! I almost posted a couple of weeks ago and then probably didnt about the "moments of joy" that found us over a weekend. guess I need to post about the good stuff, not just my agonized insecurities.
So, anyway, my longwinded musings need to be wound up here. but what's up with your H? you mentioned he's a real mess right now? I think I recall he was taking a different job the last time i read your thread. I was wondering about you recently, and how things are going. It's great that things are looking up for you.
Hi Mollie, boy so much of what you say hits home. It's so hard to really let go and not be anxious about all the "what if's"....yech....but we do have to work on it.
I find it's really important to work on the WOA w/H. I know that's part of what went wrong between us before...so that's part of how to make it right, as Sage said on someone's thread today. I remember her saying what a huge difference it made in her M, and I can see that it's also made a difference for us. Plus, now I get some from H in return, instead of just his grumpy resentful silences.
and, yes, I know you and Totally are absolutely right about the AD's...I do need to use them. one thing that's an issue that I didnt post about earlier is that the Dr. has had me take them days 14 - 28 of my cycle. well, um, now cycles are as much as 90 days long, so who the heck knows when to take them? guess I need to just see about taking them all the time, or else on 2 weeks and off 2 weeks regardless of my periods.
Hi LivenLearn, no problem with a hijack! I'd love to hear Pamila's update also, I've been wondering what was going on with her. I've been reading (lurking) some on your thread, don't really post much because I dont know what I'd say!
ok, guess I'll take a minute to update. I had my appt with the att. this morning, got some questions answered. she doesnt recommend a legal separation, but maybe an "informal" one, which can be done out of court. KS no-fault D laws do mean everything is pretty much divided, although I know I've heard of settlement agreements that were far from "even"...60 to 90 days to finalize a D. The biggie for me though was that she assured me that it was possible with out a doubt for it to be set up so that S have NO CONTACT what so ever w/ow. That is a huge relief for me. S's hatred for her is so intense that it couldnt be good for him to have to be with her.
So, on the home front....interesting stuff. H was very warm and loving last night when he got home. not in a sexual way, in a warm affectionate way. I was kind of wistfully thinking about our sitch, and got teary eyed, didnt say a word or show it, but he came in from doing chores and hugged me and said "whats this?" wiping away smudged mascara...I told him I'd just been thinking and guess it got my eyes watery...he said there was no need for that, I should dance for joy....I didnt say much.
Then, H started to talk again. actually this is a relief, because I know what's going on this way. I got more info. H was incredibly unemotional in talking about her/the A.
told me: ow is a demanding whining spoiled brat; has been making huge demands on him, which in his words "ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEES I'M NOT GONNA DO IT! I'VE ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY" (yep, this is a guy ultimatums are guaranteed to fail with.
that her demand was that he move in with her when her D went back to her dad's for the summer---which was last week. that if he didnt do that to forget it. that if it didnt happen this summer to forget it.....H said 2x, I've thought about it and thought about it, and there is nothing there that I want" and "what I want isnt there"; he did say "let me tell you, the pressure has been tremendous"...he said this with such calm detachment, not all tearful or angry, that I tend to think he meant it. he commented that "she's pissed and I'm pissed"; I almost asked "so what happens if she switches back into poor me/victim mode", but bit my tongue and just listened. That she told him "If you don't come down here (meaning to live with her) I'm going to go work at the hospital"...he'd told her to go, that was an honest way to get more money, maybe she can work with the other nurse here she hates. I asked if that was supposed to be a threat, and how??? and he said it was, that she meant she wouldnt be around/available.
oh, darn!
then he started to talk about her...interesting, she must live a life of utterly disorganized chaos....she lost her cell phone in her driveway for 3 or 4 days?????? her backyard is full of stuff her dog drags out there...shoes, underwear, other clothing, a 12 pack of toilet paper it somehow drug out there. The dog buried her cell phone last summer, ate her contacts and some emerald rings, and I don't know what else. I cant figure out how the dog could get a hold of stuff if it was even half-way put away. that's the weirdest thing. H is not exactly a "neat-nic", but he doesnt miss it by much, and sometimes disorder (which I have to admit we sometimes have way to much of) can sometimes drive him wild. I would think a situation like that would absolutely make him nuts. H said you could never depend on her, she changes plans at the last minute and you couldnt ever depend on her to do what she said because she can't get organized enough to. That there is no "we" to any of her plans, that she's not even capable of thinking in terms of "we" because she is such a self-centered spoiled brat. That her sister is so weird that she freaks out and has to leave going into Subway and being asked what she wants on her sandwich because she can't handle the stress of so many choices. whoa.
This morning I asked (yes, I am going to keep my mouth shut
) if he was really certain that he was done and staying...and he said again, quietly and matter of factly, "yes, what I want is not there".
so, we shall see. I can't help but hope. I wonder though, is his seeming detachment an indicator of any type? what about the fact that he started talking again?
Thank God I was able to be pleasant and non-reactive and just listen, ask a few neutral questions. Of course, it was a lot less emotionally loaded than hearing about the poor wonderful victims horrible health problems and how I needed to be nice to her
. oh, yeah, I'm still waiting for that letter she's gonna send me. Like I said before, I have that jotted on my calendar for shortly after hell freezes over.
Hi Deb,
You sound good.
Hope you have a great evening.
Hi Pam it's good to hear from you, I've missed you. Hope things are going well for you...I'll try to get by your digs in the next day or 2...I'm doing ok, pretty good actually. H was just here, pleasant and loving. said on his own "we're fine"
I gotta go teach class this evening, so have to sign off. talk to you soon
Hi Deb,
Hope your class goes well.
If you ever want to chat I'm on Yahoo as Psluke1. I have others but that is the main one I have up most of the time.
Hey Deb -
It is a GREAT sign that your H is seeing her faults now!
And see - by you sticking to the high road, she has started to suffer by comparison with her whiny demands. (Yes, dear readers, there is a difference between being a doormat and being a beacon of calm and love - although sometimes there can be a very fine line between the two
).
Now - H said you should be dancing for joy - how about showing him a little of the happy, relaxed, fun Deb? The one he came home for? The one he has always wanted, but thought she was gone?
Ellie