Husband MLc need help#4

[Stella20]

Time for a new thread

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2930361#Post2930361

[bttrfly]

experience is a good teacher. glad you were able to benefit from our collective experiences.

[BL42]

He didn't understand the whole 2021 tax filing issues either so he is addressing that.

Here's the deal - since your incomes are disparate, filing jointly means less taxes paid overall. However, YOU would likely owe less taxes filing separately. So you could have the accountant who does your taxes run them both way - separately and together - and have your H pay you enough to bring your tax liability or refund to where it would be if you filed separately. This would likely still save him money.

Theoretical example:

Filing separately, let's say you would get a $4,000 refund and he would owe $10,000 extra in taxes.

Filing together, there's a $5,000 refund.

If you file together, you should get $4,000 from the refund and he gets $1,000. (and he doesn't end up owing that extra $10k).

kml - Good example to show the difference in filing jointly vs. separately, however in your result Stella20's H benefits by a net of $11,000 yet Stella20 does not get any benefit. There's nothing stopping her from filing separately, and thus becomes part of the negotiation. She should use it as leverage. "H, I'll agree to file jointly if you agree to split the benefit of doing so. I'll get the full $5,000 refund and you won't owe the $10,000 you otherwise would've be filing separately (or maybe additional money defrayed against the house equity or other assets you're keeping to split the benefit of filing jointly more evenly). No reason her STBXH should get the full benefit in filing jointly.

[DnJ]

BL, I do agree that H’s saved taxes is a benefit to him, no financial benefit to Stella, and thus part of the negotiating. However, Stella does gain intangible benefits from such an act. Good will’s effect is hard to quantify or predict. (And she does have to live with her choices.) This is an easy way to grease the wheels and have H feel like this is his idea, while acquiring something else she is after. Moments of finesse are hard to find, and harder to implement.

In this theoretical tax rebate, H and Stella are each entitled to $2500; it is joint after all. So, let H save $10K, Stella get $4000, and look to better things. Quibbling begets quibbling, IMHO. Sure, there a few thousand left on the table, yet well worth it if things progress smoothly.

I’m just suggesting that Stella needs to consider which hills are worth dying for, and which ones aren’t.

[BL42]

DnJ,

Not sure thousands of dollars is quibbling when it comes to a business negotiation, but point taken. Stella20 can decide how much she wants to negotiate over vs. moving on for peace of mind.

One thing my L told me is to look at the package holistically. If you won big on items A & B then don't get bogged down on timely and costly negotiations over losing small on item C.

[kml]

BL, I do agree that H’s saved taxes is a benefit to him, no financial benefit to Stella, and thus part of the negotiating. However, Stella does gain intangible benefits from such an act. Good will’s effect is hard to quantify or predict.

Yes - this was my thinking too. Stella gets the same amount either way, but without the ill will from purposefully messing her H over on the taxes. H's way of thinking, most likely, like most WASs who seem to develop mathematical illiteracy, is that they should file together and split any refund, so it will be a big enough job just to get hm to understand why she should get the same refund as if she filed separately.

[Stella20]

Last year we had to pay in, I think it was 3 or 4 grand.. This year his income went up but he deferred more of his income. So I don't think we are talking about alot of money..We have a accountant that has been doing our taxes for years. I will let H do what he wants with this, if we file seperatly and my refund sets off what he owes, then it is what it is. We have always filed jointly, I didn't think we could file seperatly, guess we should have been doing that all along..

I didn't even know it was a issue or concern for him. I gave him all of the info for our taxes the day he stopped over last month. I get what you all are saying..but I don't think it worth fighting over at this point since what ever it is either way will be split, or come out of or go into joint account.

Plus I will have to speak with him about the life insurance and I am not really sure how that is going to go over.

I have not had any contact with him since last week, so if he reaches out I will talk to him about it.

Well I take that back, he sent me a text on monday saying I need to call some number that he attached about a perscription. This is like the 3rd time he sent it to me. I didn't respond. I called the number, but it says that they can not match my number with the perscription. I don't know what its for, might just be a scam text..That and anything I post on FB he likes it immediatly. Mostly pictures of my cats, and one picture of the whole family at my parents 50th annv. from like 7 years ago. He even went back , today, and liked my post from the slay ride I went on 2 weekends ago.( I was sitting next to my SIL brother, whom I dated for a hot second in my early 20's, and H knows I dated him) Which is wierd to me because, when he started his A he stopped commenting and liking any of my post. I know don't read into it, but this is new behavior for him.

[LH19]

Stella,

This is just another away to keep you attached, ease his guilt etc. See everyone we are friends on FB. Block him or all together delete Facebook. Your brain is looking for positive signs to ease the pain. You are doing great with NC.

[bttrfly]

Sadly, in my experience D, good will and $5 will buy you a very tiny little itty bitty cup of coffee at Starbucks

[kml]

I will let H do what he wants with this, if we file separately and my refund sets off what he owes, then it is what it is. We have always filed jointly, I didn't think we could file seperatly, guess we should have been doing that all along..

No, probably not. Generally, when one person makes a lot more than the other spouse, it is beneficial to file jointly - you will owe less taxes as a couple since the lower earner keeps the couple in a lower tax bracket. If you tend to owe money at the end of the year, you should NOT be stuck paying half, since you COULD file separately and probably owe nothing or even get a small refund. That's why I say, have the accountant run it both ways, and have your H adjust any payment or refund so that YOU are still in the same place you would be if you file separately, but he still gets some benefit from the joint filing.

For example - you file separately and get $1,000 refund. He files separately and owes $4,000. You file together and owe $0. So file together, he agrees to pay you $1,000, and he still saves $3,000 of the $4,000 he would otherwise have to pay if he filed separately.

He even went back , today, and liked my post from the slay ride I went on 2 weekends ago.( I was sitting next to my SIL brother, whom I dated for a hot second in my early 20's, and H knows I dated him)

So you can take two approaches with FB. One is to block him, so you don't have to see his posts with OW, and he can be left wondering about what you are up to. The other approach is to just "hide" his posts, so they don't come up in your feed, and only post things that showcase your fabulous new life or let him know you might be in a position that other guys could ask you out. (I'm sure he felt a pang of jealousy seeing you with the guy you once dated.)

Definitely don't post any morose things if he's still able to see your posts. If you WANT to use FB to pique his interest, then only post things that make it look like you're having a grand time or things that might stir his jealousy. If you want to use FB to get support for yourself, block him.

[AndrewP]

Plus I will have to speak with him about the life insurance and I am not really sure how that is going to go over.

That is perhaps a conversation to be had between lawyers as it is within the scope of the over-all agreement.

I know don't read into it, but this is new behavior for him.

It's called triangulation. You may well find that the less obvious attention you pay to him, the more active he'll be. It's about keeping him as being central and perhaps to try to keep OW on her toes too.

There's a thing that is called "grey rock" that you may want to consider. It means that to outward appearances that he can see that you are as interesting as a grey rock. And the converse is true. If you think, you can probably respond to any comment with one of, Cool, Bummer, Wow and no other words After a while he'll get bored and stop trying to manipulate your emotions.

[Stella20]

Kml,
He does not post anything to do with the OW,(yet) mostly just jokes and sports stuff. I only post stuff about my fur babies, family or what I have been doing. I keep it positive stuff, jokes, etc. Still has us married in his profile. (so do I)

I know it had to bother him seeing me sitting next to a old boyfriend. The monday after that post was when he said " I thought you moved on already?"
I told him... "I have not slept with anyone, do you think my love for you is that shallow" he said no... In his right mind, he would know that I would never go there, but he is not in his right mind..

It is what it is. I will not contact him, and only respond if it is something important... He text me again this morning about the perscription message he keeps getting. I did respond this morning and told him that I did call the number, but it asked for a code and did not have my number tied to whatever it was about. He said if it came again he would try to find out what it was about. I said ok thank you, and left it at that. Basic, no emotion, nothing personal. Hard, but I did it.

It has really helped having my Mom here, but she is leaving today. Ugh..I just hate being alone right now.

[BL42]

Stella20,

Regarding Facebook/Social Media...I distinctly remember getting all worked up when my then-W changed her profile pic from one of our family to one of her by yourself as well as when she removed the "married" (to me) on her "relationship status" to blank. This is while we were still living together and very married. As usual I had the kids in bed upstairs and she was "working late". It almost seems silly now because it's she was having an affair with a coworker in the office so in the grand scheme of things a SM update is small potatoes , but they did make me spin back then.

Point is, I agree w/LH & kml on the social media approach. Either hide his post in your feed or block him completely. Don't let social media either get you spinning (when you come across an unexpected change to his profile or a picture of him out) OR be a method for you to constantly be checking up on him. Put it out of your head.

The took the half measure of hiding my now-ExW's posts in my feed because we were still using the messenger feature to video chat with the kids, but once I had an alternative solution there I blocked her, her family, OM2 & his family completely and no longer give it any head space.

[kml]

And if you're looking to shake him up a little more - because it is possible that he's having some regrets, we can't know - go ahead and change your FB status to blank or it's complicated. I mean - it IS. He's LIVING with another woman!

And please, in the future, don't reassure him "you think my love is that shallow I would move on that quickly?". I'd stick with - "what I do with my personal life is no longer your concern while you are living with another woman". That needs to be a strict boundary. He's living with another woman and while he is, he has no rights to you and NO reason to complain about anything you may or may not do in your personal life. Period.

[DnJ]

Hello Stella

I didn't even know it was a issue or concern for him.

Yep. They will often drop clues, or outright tell you, various things that are important to them. Those might be insignificant in your eyes, however it’s their eyes you are considering when negotiating.

D

[Stella20]

Hello everone...
Andrew.. yes I am seeing that the more I pull away with no contact... He is all over my FB, likeing everything I post, and texting me non important stuff every couple of days... Funny how when the A started getting serious, he stopped likeing, commenting and posting stuff to me. And now if I post something he is the first to like it. Almost like he is trying to stake his clam. As I have other male friends on FB that make comments, even though he knows all of my male friends...Trying not to read into it, but this is a change in his behavior...

BL, I hear you, I am not ready to block him yet..

Kml, Yes, I am looking to shake him up, he should be... I am a great catch, and he should be worried...If I would really put myself on the market, I know my worth.Not to sound full of myself but I am a good, loyal, loving, person with a big heart, and I am cute..lol..but I am no way ready or intrested and can not even imagine going there.... I know, I should not have said what I said to him and kicked myself after it came out..Ugh..Ever since he had the meeting with his lawyer all of the FB post likes have started, the convos about mutual friends. And I have not been texting or calling him since last week..as of today he is texting me ever 2 days, with nothing important..

D- Yep, If the taxes are his big concern, I am ok with that. I always thought that once the finacial consequences started to become clear to him that this would kick some type of logical thought from him. Might be finally getting real for him.. who knows..

I will continue with no contact from me.. Lawyer told me that I can get a job now, so next week I will start looking for something that I want to do. It will be good to get back into a routine of going to work... never thought I would say that..lol..but I know it will help me..

Went to church again today, ash wednesdy, with Mom before she left. I find it calming, but was afraid to go alone, it is the church that we got married in. But being there was okay for me, and I feel like it helps, praying for strength and healing..

I talked alot with Mom while she was here, I am starting to see that I also need time..I still miss H and wish this was not happening. But pushing him and talking to him gets me no where, this is out of my hands. He has to do what he is gonna do..

Thank you all for being here for me..

[LH19]

Hi Stella,

I am curious if you have considered a pros and cons list regarding not blocking him on FB? If you are trying to shake him out of it I am afraid you are going to be greatly disappointed. Eventually his posting habits are going to change and it’s going to send you spinning.

There are no quick fixes. If you want to recon it is going to take a lot of time and space and uncertainty on both parts. Everything you report on the board we have seen 100s if not 1,000s of times and we 99% of the time know the outcome. Our goal is to try our best to save the LBS from as much pain as possible.

[DejaVu6]

Stella… My best advice to you, if you can’t bring yourself to block him, is to unfollow him. That way, when/if he starts posting about OW or things he is doing with her, it won’t randomly pop up on your feed one day and send you spinning. My XH blocked me a few years before we separated and told me he deleted FB to explain why I could no longer see him anymore. One of the many things he did to create a second life for himself while still pretending to be living his life with me. After he left, I decided it was a blessing in disguise as I never had to worry about seeing posts from him. The flip side is he can no longer see anything about my life either and I’m happy about that. Also…whatever you do, do not go searching for OW on social media. I can think of a couple of posters on here who have done that and they really struggled to deal with the things they found out. I’m proud to say that is something I’ve never done. I am pretty sure I saved myself a lot of extra heartache that way.

One other reason you may want to consider blocking him… By allowing him access to your FB and reassuring him there is no one else in your life when he asks, you are basically telling him you are waiting around hoping he will return. That puts you solidly in Plan B territory. If he starts to doubt what he is doing, all he has to do it look at your FB feed to reassure himself that you are still living life like he is coming back or ask you directly and have you reassure him that you are still there. So he can move forward with his plan knowing that you will be there to catch him if he falls.

Your realization that every time you try to pull him towards you it has the opposite effect is correct. Remember…this seems out of the blue and sudden to you but he has been thinking about this for a long time. He knew how painful and difficult it would be…for you and for him…he did it anyway. So when you try to pull him towards you, he feels pressure and he attributes that directly to you. He hates that feeling so he will run from it. Don’t forget Stella…OW was not the reason…she was the way. He is resolved to see this through because it took so much for him to get up the courage to leave. So he does not want to go backwards because he’s pretty sure he would be desperately unhappy if he did. Do NOT take that personally. He is the reason for his unhappiness, not you.

You’re doing well Stella. I know you don’t feel like you are but you are. Just keep moving forward. Take care of the business of your divorce and make sure that you will be okay financially. Do your GAL activities. I know…it’s the last thing you want to do right now but it is so so necessary. Just remember…he is going to do what he is going to do whether you are sitting at home feeling sad or doing the things you need to do to move on. Trust me…you do NOT want to be on here two years from now still dealing with the same feelings. You can prolong the process but you cannot avoid it. Sooner or later, you will be forced to let go of the life you had in order to make a new one for yourself….with or without your H. As others have said… let go or be dragged Stella. Letting go is the best and fastest way to feel whole again my friend. (((HUGS)))

[bttrfly]

Hi Stella,
Where are you in reading Michele's books? Asking because there are a lot of good tips in there on how to focus on you, GAL, etc. xoxoxo

[BL42]

Stella20,

Wise words from LH19 and DejaVu6. Read through their posts a few times and soak them in.

[kml]

One other reason you may want to consider blocking him… By allowing him access to your FB and reassuring him there is no one else in your life when he asks, you are basically telling him you are waiting around hoping he will return. That puts you solidly in Plan B territory

However, if he sees Stella out living her life, in photos with ex-boyfriends etc. it might make him realize she's NOT sitting around waiting to be Plan B, and might shake him awake. (This doesn't happen that often, but it DOES occur sometimes. ) It all depends on Stella's tolerance for seeing clicks and likes from him, and whether she can see them without having any expectations. Block him if it's keeping you strung along. Leave it open to him and change your status to It's Complicated if you want to give him an opportunity to realize what he's going to be missing.

[Stella20]

Got the revised info from my lawyer, sent it to my brother to look over.

Emailed H about bills that I paid from joint account and about credit cards that will need to be canceled.
And now I am having a melt down. I kept the emails all buisness, but this is killing me.

[kml]

Keep it strictly business. Taking care of the business side does not mean you are shutting the door to reconciliation - nothing's keeping him from walking back before, during or after the divorce. What you are doing is protecting yourself and your share of these hard-earned assets from his alcoholism and current mental issue. So don't let the business side put you into an emotional spin - they are two different things.

Now - how are you going to pull yourself up from this meltdown? It okay to feel the feelings for a bit, but then get yourself into a better space - don't let him steal your whole day. What can you do today that will make you fell better/ take your mind off this?

[Stella20]

Thank Kml,
I called my sister and talked to her for a bit. And I am getting ready to make myself a cocktail...I am okay now, just sad that he is moving ahead with everything like its no big deal...no emotion or thought into what he is doing. At least thats the impresion I get.

Had some more emails, about the cable/phone bill. He uses the cable to watch sports yet, cable, phone and internet are all on 1 bill. So he wants to keep that for now and pay out of joint account.
Also some streaming accounts we have, switched one over to my name and my credit card just now. Have to look at the other ones, said he doesn't use them, so I am going to cancel them as well.

As soon as the payments go through on the credit cards, I will go in and remove the joint bank info and then send him the password to get into them.

Said he was going to figure out his pay for Jan. & Feb and get me that money.

I posted a picture(on FB) of the cutiest little fluff ball kitten that my Aunt is trying to get me to bring home...We had talked about getting another kitten after Stella died this last summer...He asked if I was going to take her, and said he missed the boys..I responed that I didn't know yet, not sure how the boys will take to a kitten.. Then he responed back that he thought the boys would be fine and talked about how our oldest, Timmy was when we brought Archie and Stella home as kittens. He said.. remember how Timmy would paw under the door to get to them and how he was so protective...yadda yadda yadda... He went down memory lane with all of that...??? I did not respond to that last email..

So he misses the fur babies, but not me and our life... ugh...yep time for that cocktail. At least that was a short melt down for me so that progress..

Also had a IC yesterday, my C asked about a intervention again, and trying to get H into a treatment place. I told him I didn't think that was a good idea, as it would only piss H off at this point....I don't think my C believes in MLC, he is focused more on H's drinking.
He did put me in contact with a divorce group in my area that I am going to look into...
S

[Stella20]

Ok so I am sitting her tonight and...and I know I probably should not have responed or kept it going but this is the most open convo we have had in 10 mounths..


On Feb. 11 I sent H a FB memory on messanger..that he sent to me from Feg 11 6 years ago, That said "I love my wonderful wife".. Tonight.... he sends a thumbs up in response and pictures of the boys. I sent back two pictures of the boys.. and he says " Archis is awesome. I miss him..sends another picture of Archie.. So I send him a picture of Archie hunting for mice in the basement.. H responds.. "Must be something in the closet or the hallway into the basement" and another picture of Archie.. and says "probably dead mice in the traps they are going to stink".. I said, I haven't checked the traps and I know they are probably stinking, and thats your job, lol..."He responed " Yeah, I know", Then he sent me a picture of just me on one of our vacation, I sent him 2 pictures of him and Allie (21 year old cat that died).. He said " I miss Allie, she was my girl, God I was so happy in that picture, I wish I could go back to being that happy again." I responded back with " The future is unwritten, this is always a way"... He said " I miss it all".....

Its Friday and late, so I am sure he was drinking, but ...seriously this is the most he has ever opened up to me in like 10 to 12 months...

In our early today emails, I told him that he could come and see the boys whenever he wanted to.

I know, I know, he's been drinking...but he use to really open up in the past when he was drinking. Allthough after the A came out, when he got drunk he got mean and picked fights with me.
Don't get my hopes up, keep expectations low and expect him to pull away now.. right??

Just seemed like he was reaching out to me tonight.

Ok hit me...
Stella

[DnJ]

Hello Stella

Ok hit me...

I do understand and remember how hard this all is. How counterintuitive the path before you is.

and I know I probably should not have responed or kept it going but this is the most open convo we have had in 10 mounths..

You know you should not have responded. “Probably should not” is coming from other than your intellect.

H just wandered down memory lane and you went along. H needed a fix. He now got a refill of his supply and will now run again, off to his shinny new fantasy.

Don't get my hopes up, keep expectations low and expect him to pull away now.. right??

You already know the likely outcome of your conversation. Yes, H will pull away. He is divorcing you after all.

I don't think my C believes in MLC, he is focused more on H's drinking.

You are free to heed or ignore whatever advice or suggestions your receive. In my humble opinion, find a C that believes in MLC, or go it alone. Confiding in, seeking validation and guidance from, a trusted C that doesn’t believe in what you are experiencing will pull you apart.

MLC is real. Yes, plenty of people do not believe in it. For most folks never experience nor recognize a MLC spouse. And many LBS of MLCers fall prey to these words of disbelief. You have living proof in front of you. Do not let anyone tell you different.

MLC is near unfathomable is its ability to consume one into its dark depths. We folks simple have no experience with or measure of the internal torrent that literally propels these hurt lost souls to such extreme running behaviours. Couple that torment with effects of drinking and the other vices of a person in crisis, and things get very messy very fast.

I always thought that once the finacial consequences started to become clear to him that this would kick some type of logical thought from him.

They do have moments of clarity. Times of logical reasoning to various feedback and inputs. And then, get consumed once again. H’s entire path, everything, is emotionally driven. He needs to follow his path. Find his emotional understanding and answers. Heal. Then become whole.

You cannot fix him, for you didn’t break him.

I told you before, all my advice is for you. You are the most important person in this equation. My advice is geared first and foremost for your healing, and also to provide you your best chance at saving your marriage and/or creating a new one.

Your marriage might not be saved - however, you will be!


Some asked for hits:

Lose the current C.

Block H on social media.

Go dim or no contact.

Be a gray rock.

Focus on you.

Detach. Find indifference.


I am willing to walk with you on this harrowing journey. There is so much more after detachment. So much to discover. So much wonderful yet to come. The starting out steps are most difficult. (((Hugs)))

D

[LH19]

Stella

DNJ gave you some really great advice.

So in my situation that started seven years ago the first real thing my exw said was “I wish we could go back to being happy”. I thought yes! That’s what we need to do. I knew absolutely nothing about the subject and thought we could snap our fingers and being back to happy. The truth was we had to move forward to happy which needed both people on board. It was going to be a difficult journey with rocky weather along the way. The problem is there was only one person willing to get on the ship.

7 years later I am willing to bet good money I could walk now memory lane with my exw. If I forwarded her a FB memory of a happy time she would walk that path with me. I choose to not walk that path because I am not trying to convince her anything and I am fine without her.

Your brain is not there yet. It thinks if you can convince him you were happy together he will comeback and everything will go back to normal and that gives your brain comfort. That’s all it is it has nothing to do with your husband. With time and space you will see it the same as we do.

I’ll give you an analogy. Your STBXH is a tightrope walker. He’s not very good at it probably because he’s not 100 percent sure he should be a tightrope walker. He has a show and he’s thinking about canceling it because he is unsure he can make it across. His manager comes to him and says “no worries bro we will have a safety net underneath to catch you if you fall” the tightrope walker makes the trip across with no worries. Take the safety net away Stella. Make him make the journey with nothing to catch him when he falls.

[bttrfly]

My darling, you deserve a man who will open up to you when he's sober, when he's sleepy, when he's had the best day ever, when he's down in the dumps.

A bartender's job is to listen when the drunks open up.

You're not anyone's bartender, Stella.

Believe in YOUR worth.

I do.

xoxoxo

[bttrfly]

Also, have you gone to any more alanon meetings?

[AndrewP]

((Stella)) - This is hard stuff to do. You're doing fine. You are self-aware and that's tough.

I don't think my C believes in MLC, he is focused more on H's drinking.

When I went into therapy the therapist asked me what my goal was. "To survive this" was my answer and that's what she worked on. In your therapy you can't work on or manipulate others who aren't even in the room. Try to keep the focus on you rather than the source of your pain.

I always thought that once the finacial consequences started to become clear to him that this would kick some type of logical thought from him.

He's not thinking with that head dear. He's undoubtedly running on emotions alone and thoughts of 'me me me'.

That would perhaps in part explain why he appears sad and to be missing what he had. I say appears because we can't know. There's an interesting thread out on the forum about reconnection steps - it basically goes in the opposite order from how they disconnect. I'd probably put good money on the theory though that it was the alcohol doing much of the talking on that exchange.

But please keep the focus on yourself. You still have a lot of healing to do. Keep your light shining.

[BL42]

Stella,

Several people recommended unfollowing/blocking H on FB. You didn't, and those interactions are causing you to spin.

You're getting good advice. Consider taking it to heart.

These latest quotes from DnJ & LH19 especially stand out:

Lose the current C.
Block H on social media.
Go dim or no contact.
Be a gray rock.
Focus on you.
Detach. Find indifference.

Make him make the journey with nothing to catch him when he falls.

[Eagle3]

Dear Stella,

I'm terribly sorry you have to go through this, I know what a hell it is and it won't be over any time soon.

The best advice I can give you right now is read my story, read it in full.
Why? Because my EXH is/was a master in manipulation and gaslighting. Constantly giving me something to hold on too, and when he achieved yet again pushing me away in a very harsh way.

This game has been going on for 3 years now, luckily with some longer periods of piece and quiet, but if I don't put an end to it myself, I know this will continue for years to come.

The advice you're getting here is 100% correct, but I also know you're not ready for that, and you don't have to be. I recommend that you do everything at your own pace. It must feel good and right in your heart, if you don't do this you will regret it and that should not be the intention either.

Just keep posting here, we'll give you the support you need.

XXX

[Stella20]

Thanks everyone,
Yeah, I am done with my C, this is not the first time I have brought up MLC with him and he brushed it off. But I am going to check out the divorce group at this local church.

After Friday night, nothing from H, as expected. So yep back to being dim and NC from me..

My focus for this week is to actually find a job and not just go through the motions. Dinner next Friday with the family, nephew b day..

Eagle... I don't know how this will ever feel good or right in my heart.... I don't see it yet..
S

[kml]

You don’t need a counselor who doesn’t believe in MLC - but at the same time, be sure not to ignore your H’s alcoholism, which is a huge factor too.

[DnJ]

Finding employment will be good. And more than just financially.

I am glad to see your decision to let go your C. Having something just brushed off is not helpful. Nice display of inner strength by the way.

I don't know how this will ever feel good or right in my heart.... I don't see it yet.

Have faith.

Keep your heart soft and squishy. Do not build walls nor harden to the pain and heartache. This is temporary and will pass. And I completely understand how you don’t see it, yet.

By the way, you phrased that perfectly. “I don’t know how”, “I don’t see it yet.” You didn’t use “can’t”. Well done. Awesome! And you used “yet”. Exactly! The future is being revealed.

Your mind and heart are always listening, and you are speaking perfectly to them. Thinking and speaking in that manner is a fantastic reinforcement. Of course, you are very self aware. Quite above average in my view.

D

[LH19]

Yeah, I am done with my C, this is not the first time I have brought up MLC with him and he brushed it off.

How do you like your IC minus the MLC component? What do you think would change if your IC believed in MLC? Remember that IC is to help you heal and move forward.

[DejaVu6]

I don’t think it is something you can see right away Stella. I couldn’t see it either. I thought I would feel broken forever and part of me wanted that because I remember thinking that if I got over it, it would be like it never happened. As if my pain was the only proof that the life we had and the love we shared was real. I resisted letting go because I didn’t want the last 13 years of my life to have been for nothing. Eventually, though, I realized that letting go was the kindest thing I could do for myself and that prolonging my suffering was only hurting me.

So don’t be scared Stella. Once you are detached from the situation, you start to live again…not the life you thought you would have but a good life just the same. I have met people I never would have met if this hadn’t happened. And done things I never would have done. In April, I’m picking up my nephews (from my first marriage) and going to visit my first XH and his parents who I absolutely adore and vice versa. That would not have happened if I was still married to XH. I can also do what I want whenever I want without having to consult a partner. That is also very freeing. Would I trade it all to be a family again? TBH, I’m not sure. I think I would definitely consider it…but not for me…for my kids. If it were just about me, I don’t think I would because I think being married to someone who is capable of the things he did would always turn out to be a losing proposition.

Hang in there Stella. You’re doing better than you think you are. (((HUGS)))

[kml]

If it were just about me, I don’t think I would because I think being married to someone who is capable of the things he did would always turn out to be a losing proposition.

OMG, yes, THIS!!! I feel the same way.

[DejaVu6]

I’m with LH on the IC issue. To me, the reasons for your spouse’s departure are irrelevant. He has moved out and is living with another woman. Does it matter really matter why? IC is to help you move forward not to fix him. Whether it is an addiction to substances, an addiction to his affair or a stage-of-life crisis… it doesn’t change the fact that he is gone and has asked for a divorce. His reasons for doing this do not change the fact that he is doing it. Take the focus off of him and work on yourself so that you will be better equipped to deal with whatever is ahead of you… with or without him. The worst thing you can do is stay stuck and find yourself in the exact same position two years from now. Save yourself first Stella.

[LH19]

The worst thing you can do is stay stuck and find yourself in the exact same position two years from now. Save yourself first Stella.

This was the point I was trying to make on Eagles thread.

[DnJ]

To me, the reasons for your spouse’s departure are irrelevant. He has moved out and is living with another woman. Does it matter really matter why?

Yes it matters.

Substance addiction, mental illness, emotional problems, or just an a$$hat, the person left behind needs to cope differently depending upon the situation. Example, if an IC told spouse A that their alcoholic spouse was not an alcoholic. Just kept brushing it off, as in they didn’t see the validity in it. Didn’t believe what you say. Didn’t acknowledge what you say. (Hmm, sounds almost like gaslighting.) How well do you think spouse A would do?

It’s highly relevant. MWD has an entire chapter dedicated to MLC. Crisis is a different animal. The LBS needs to be heard and understood, and few folks will believe in or even acknowledge what these LBS see and live with.

Everyone needs a certain level of understanding before they’ll let go. The “why” is important to that process. Once one let’s go, yes those things become less relevant.

I remember that time from my path. The why was not irrelevant. It was critical for me and my kids. It paved healthy boundaries and mechanisms. Modesty aside, my kids have done awesome with their Mom throwing them away. And why? Understanding, and me.

I can’t even guess where my kids would be if I was “It doesn’t matter why Mom left. Her reasons for doing it do not change the fact that she’s doing it.”

My XW, Stella’s H, all these folks that have affairs and leave - are forcefully telling their blame-filled narratives. Without “why”, without understanding, we absorb that poison.

Not understanding is what keeps folks stuck.

D

[DejaVu6]

D… I think you missed what I was trying to say. I don’t disagree that MLC exists and that your XW had an extreme case of it. However, most situations are not so cut and dry and most people don’t completely abandon their lives in the extreme fashion that your XW did.

I don’t agree that you need to know exactly why your spouse did what they did in order to heal from it. I think it is more that you need to know that it’s not all about you and what you did or did not do in your marriage. I don’t completely understand why my XH did what he did. I have my theories but that’s really all they are.

Whether it is MLC, your spouse has an addiction or you just had the misfortune of marrying a cheater, the path to healing is still the same. You have to grieve the loss of what was, find a way to accept what is and then begin to build a new life for yourself. It’s as simple and as difficult as that.

And for what it’s worth, I don’t think you should EVER absorb someone else’s poison, MLC or no MLC.

[LH19]

The truth is you will never know anyway. You can’t swab your nose and 24 hours later look up the results on a computer. The problem with diagnosing someone with MLC it tends to 1 allow the LBS to minimize their role in the marriage ending 2 allows the LBS to take more abuse (it’s MLC spouse talking) and 3 keeps people holding on way too long.

[Elbereth]

Stella,

I also struggled in the beginning. I kept wanting to understand it and make sense of it. I found it so impossible to believe. Was my MR a lie? Did I ever really know this person? Did he love me the way I loved him? I really don’t have any of the answers even after all the research and counseling that I did do. What I do know is this is who my H is NOW. He has no integrity NOW. He is living with another woman NOW. He is divorcing me NOW. I have to look out for myself. He won’t. He’s not. He’s left me.

And even if I got him to talk, what would he tell me that would make what he has done make sense? Nothing. At least nothing that would make me feel better. And I realized he’s been lying to me, so I don’t think I would trust anything he said to me anyways. So for me he is dead. He is there, and he looks like the man I loved. But he is dead. That man I thought I knew is not there. That view of him is what allowed me to come to grips with my situation and to start focusing on myself. I had to let go of getting any understanding of WHY. Right now, while he is with OW and in MLC, I don’t see any way to get any answers I could trust or believe. So I’ve accepted that. Doesn’t mean I like it though. That was my journey in many ways it is similar to others out on this forum. We all had to find a way to accept what is happening to us.

I encourage you to drop the rope, detach and work on what you can control which is your own future. But yes, you will need to do that at your own pace and that is okay. You can be the lighthouse for your H if you want to be and still move on without him. Opening the door for your H later is your choice and would be in your control. A miracle change in your H’s behavior is not in your control. You made it clear you wanted to work on things and he said he didn’t want to. So he knows you love him and want him. And he is still with OW. I know it stings and I’m sorry. ((Hugs))

Hang in there Stella. You will move forward. It’s a longer journey than most of want, but just keep moving forward. I’m just suggesting your start fighting for yourself now instead of fighting to get your H back. Doing that does not prevent him from returning. I hope you can see that?

El

[bttrfly]

MLC is real. If you've not lived through it, then you don't get it, period. This is the MLC thread. I fail to see how posting here that MLC isn't relevant is helpful to those of us who have lived with an MLC spouse. They are a different animal, indeed!

And no, it doesn't let the LBS off the hook for their part in the demise of their marriage.

And no, it also doesn't keep the LBS stuck, IF they practice Michele's techniques for dealing with MLCrs.

[LH19]

Yo BF no one is saying MLC isn’t real other than Stella’s counselor. The point that was made is it doesn’t change anything with IC. You are in IC to heal and move forward.

[bttrfly]

Yo BF no one is saying MLC isn’t real other than Stella’s counselor. The point that was made is it doesn’t change anything with IC. You are in IC to heal and move forward.

It absolutely does - if the IC doesn't fully understand then they can't properly guide and help the person heal.

[Stella20]

Hi everyone,
I have been seeing my C since last July, I really don't think I will be going back to see him at this point. He continues to repeat the same stuff... H is a alcoholic and needs treatment and intervention... with MLC, we know that I can not tell him that or force him to get treatment.. He has to fix himself..
Practice mindfulness and stay in the moment, don't think about the future, we don't know what it will be.. Ok so thats good advice. Other than that I just talk to him about H and my feelings, which I can do on this board. So I feel like I just hit a dead end with my C..

Deja, I don't believe I married a cheater.. H and I have always been on the same page, until this happened. He has become someone I do not know and his friends don't know, and says its because he fell in love with OW.. I know he is not in love with OW, and whatever he feels for her will never fill the gapping hole he is feeling, nor will it ever compare to what we had together. He needs to find his happiness within, and as he said last Friday, he is still not happy, and misses his life. Guilt, shame, regret, a little self reflection... I don't know.. But I will continue to hope that the smart man I once new will start to think about the consequences that are coming to fruition after all this time. Who knows what goes on in there heads...

My focus now is getting a job, so I have something else to focus on.. I can not control what is happening, as much as I want to.
And maybe getting that kitten from aunt...

[Stella20]

And to be honest, not talking to him [censored]. I miss him... I am trying to stay positve and keep my mind off of all of this sh!t, but its hard..

[BL42]

Stella20,

whatever he feels for her will never fill the gapping hole he is feeling

He needs to find his happiness within

Probably true. He's trying to chase happiness, but needs to learn to be happy on his own. You can't make him happy, nor can OW. Unfortunately as his W your life is turned over in the process of his journey.

Guilt, shame, regret, a little self reflection... I don't know.. But I will continue to hope that the smart man I once new will start to think about the consequences that are coming to fruition after all this time. Who knows what goes on in there heads...

You can hope, but don't count on logical and reason playing a part on his decision.

My focus now is getting a job, so I have something else to focus on..

Good! Having a new focus will not only take your mind off him but give you a drive and purpose.

I can not control what is happening, as much as I want to.

Very true. Do you really accept this?

And to be honest, not talking to him [censored]. I miss him... I am trying to stay positve and keep my mind off of all of this sh!t, but its hard..

It is hard. Your job search is a great area of focus. Seek out over GAL as well...new hobbies, clubs, dinner with friends...etc. Staying busy is the best way to keep your mind off things.

[Stella20]

BL,
I am trying to accept it, don't want to, but it is out of my hands...

Going out to meet a friend for a couple of cocktails tonight. Will be my first time in a bowling alley since he left, so a little nervous. He will not be at this one, but the whole bowling community in our area knows what happen, so I am sure I will be getting the looks... Whatever, I didn't do anything wrong, nor do I have anything to be embarrassed about....those two idiots have no problem going out in public like they are the best thing since sliced bread. They are the ones that should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves!!!!! Well, I am done sitting around at home, too scared to be in public...
Hold my head high and just do it, gonna run into all of these people at some point in time right...

Meeting a friend tomorrow for lunch and dinner with the family on Friday night... trying to GAL and get out of the house.. I think I have burned through netflix...

I let ya all know how tonight goes...ugh.. fake till I make it..

[kml]

I think I have burned through netflix...

Lol - I think I'm down to subtitled Bollywood flicks

[Stella20]

Bollywood flicks.. thats funny!!! Thanks for the laugh..

[DejaVu6]

Hope your night out went well Stella. FWIW…don’t worry too much about what other people are thinking about your situation. I highly doubt anyone will be judging you because of your H’s sh*tty behaviour. You keep your head up high and have a great time!!!

RE: you missing your H. I can relate to that for sure. I missed my H a lot but I chose to view it the same way that Elbereth did. The man I married was long gone. The person I’m dealing with today looks like him and sounds like him but it is not him.

You will never be completely okay with everything but I promise you, it does get better with time. (((HUGS)))

[Stella20]

Hi Deja,
Yes, like Elbereth, I feel the same. The H I knew is gone, to me and to friends and family..Instead of turning to the person that loves him the most, he turned his back on me, shut me out of his life and has betrayed me in the worst possible way. Its inhumane, what he is doing, so publicly, just moved on like it is no big deal that he destroyed me, his wife....blew up everything... for what??? That pos he is with...disgusting.... Never thought he could show so much hatred towards me and our life. So cold and uncaring...and yet I sit here and think about wanting him back..WTF is wrong with me??? Just really angry this morning, at him, at myself...

Last night went fine, it was nice to get out of the house, I ran into a couple of people that I know, not big deal.

Talked with my girlfriend the entire time I was there. She has been apart of mine and H's life since the start, was in our wedding, she actually knew H before me. She remembered H being so excited, and happy when we started dating. He had to tell her right away and said to her that he had finally met the women of his dreams and the one he would marry. She is also in shock that he is acting this way and what he is doing.

[BL42]

Stella20,

Will be my first time in a bowling alley since he left, so a little nervous. He will not be at this one, but the whole bowling community in our area knows what happen, so I am sure I will be getting the looks...

Interestingly, I was just talking to my golf partner (also is going through a D) who was out at a restaurant and saw people he knew and told me he wondered what they thought about his situation. I've wondered the same. There have been times I could sense some pity in someone who knew ExW & I, others where I didn't know if they knew the whole situation...etc. That nervousness or uncertainty about what others are thinking about you is natural. But in the end it doesn't matter. Go out and live your life and be true to yourself. Most will at least be nice if not support you; those who take H's "side" you don't need in your life anyway.

Whatever, I didn't do anything wrong, nor do I have anything to be embarrassed about....those two idiots have no problem going out in public like they are the best thing since sliced bread. They are the ones that should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves!!!!! Well, I am done sitting around at home, too scared to be in public...
Hold my head high and just do it, gonna run into all of these people at some point in time right...

Very true. Good attitude.

Glad you're getting out with friends...keep it up!

[kml]

I'm glad that I moved out of my neighborhood pretty soon after we split (H was in a hurry to sell the house so he could buy the duplex he was renting, and since I knew I couldn't afford to buy him out, I cooperated). First I moved in with my mom, who lived in the next town over, then eventually I bought a house about 30 minutes way. I'm glad I was spared running into friends of my husband's in random places, since I'm sure he told them all a pack of lies to make himself look good.

The one time I did see a lot of those people was a few years later when my ex threw a graduation party for one of my sons at his place. Didn't hurt that I showed up with crazy ex-BF, who for all his flaws, was an absolutely gorgeous 6'3" black man, 7 years younger, chiseled features and so fit that people constantly asked him if he was a pro athlete. I'll admit, I kinda enjoyed the jealous looks from some of the women there! (My ex, by comparison, while fit, is a balding pale white guy of average height and looks).

[DejaVu6]

I think mostly other people think that they are glad it didn’t happen to them…lol. Most of us are too wrapped up in our own lives to give much thought as to what others are going through.

RE: your H’s hatred and his coldness. It IS jarring, isn’t it? I know that when all of this happened to me, that was the one thing that was so difficult to reconcile. The eyes that used to look at me with love and admiration had suddenly become empty and devoid of feeling. It was so hard for me to believe that I went back to look at all of the pictures I had taken the few months before BD and focused in on his eyes to make sure I hadn’t missed something. Every one of them… smiling, laughing, loving… It was just so unbelievable to me how one could change seemingly overnight. Like as soon as I found out about everything, the man I knew just disappeared and was replaced by a contempt-filled alien.

FWIW… I don’t think that phenomenon is about us at all. When everything comes out and they have to face us, I think we become a mirror for them. They see the hurt and the pain they’ve caused and we reflect back to them the worst part of themselves. That is what they hate… not us. They couldn’t possibly hate us with that much intensity. That’s self loathing my dear…plain and simple.

You’re doing really well Stella. (((HUGS)))

[DejaVu6]

The one time I did see a lot of those people was a few years later when my ex threw a graduation party for one of my sons at his place. Didn't hurt that I showed up with crazy ex-BF, who for all his flaws, was an absolutely gorgeous 6'3" black man, 7 years younger, chiseled features and so fit that people constantly asked him if he was a pro athlete. I'll admit, I kinda enjoyed the jealous looks from some of the women there! (My ex, by comparison, while fit, is a balding pale white guy of average height and looks).

KML… LOL. I would have loved that too!!!

[Stella20]

Yesterday H texted me about the credit cards and spliting some money. Said he was sorry for getting upset previously (2 months ago ) I responded with " I understand why you were upset. Are you sure you want to continue moving forward with all of this." (meaning D) I know should not have asked but after all the messages I got from him last Friday, I thought I would throw out a line... His response..total avoid..."We have to comply with what is laid out".....
Whatever, I tried...

Also H's mom reached out to me this week. Her H passed this last summer and there 30th annv. is coming up this weekend. She said "I hope you both figure things out before its too late. H is stubborn like his grandma I don't want to see you loose each other. Our anniversary is sunday it would have been 30 years he was taken from me..don't loose the love you have for each other."
I told her I was trying, that H had reached out to me last Friday and had sent me a picture of her dog on Wednesday, when he stopped by her. Told her he knows I am here for him, but he needs to figure this out himself, and I will always love him, and don't want any of this. This is all on him right now....... Ugh, I know this is breaking her heart too, I was/am really close with her, just trying to give some space and check in on her from time to time. Not sure if she is telling this to H or not, but I know it won't make a difference anyway.. He is hurting so many people..


Went and got a facial yesterday, aww it was so relaxing..might need to get a message soon too...nothing wrong with a little self love..Went shopping and to lunch with a friend on Wednesday.

Getting ready for dinner tonight with family,for my nephews birthday, niece is picking me up in a couple of hours...Should be fun.. So I have been doing pretty good at GAL this week. Applied for a job that I really want, cross my fingers... I am going to send a follow up email later today or tomorrow. Got a notice that they just viewed it yesterday..

Haven't been sleeping good the last few nights, been listening to meditative healing hypnosis stuff on youtube to see if it helps. Mornings are getting better, still filled with sadness over H's actions, his A, his abandonment. Still lonely, just me and the fur babies, but they make me smile with there goofy ways.

Looks like the weather is finally going to start to get better next week, looking forward to getting outside more.

Stella

[DejaVu6]

Good for you for doing some self care Stella!! Sounds like you handled the phone call with your MIL really well. I just saw my XMIL last night for the dog changeover (we share custody). We chatted about my trip with the kids and she thanked me for all of the pictures I sent of our adventures. It is definitely possible to have relationships with some of your X’s family members post divorce provided you had a good relationship with them to begin with. I haven’t talked to my XFIL once since he left. That’s not a loss for me at all. I am also still FB friends with his siblings and cousins and we talk online once in awhile. I don’t talk with any of them about XH which I think is important now that we are divorced. They are very supportive of me in my “new life” and wish me the best.

RE: your MIL. If XH follows through with the divorce and OW sticks around, be prepared for your MIL to have a relationship with her. If they have to make a choice, parents will choose their children regardless of what they do so don’t put her in that position if you want her to stay in your life. That’s definitely the case in my sitch and I’m okay with it. I decided early on not to personalize my MIL’s acceptance of OW and that has made all the difference.

[Stella20]

Thanks Deja,
Yes, I hear you... H's mom said she would never accept the OW, due to her experince with A's from her 1st M. But I know she will always support H, as she should. Thats why I have been giving her space, I think she needs to be there for H more than me. She is all the family that H has left, since he through away me and my family.... But she knows how much I love H, and want to save our M.

So sad...makes me so angry that he is so blind....

[Stella20]

H also text on Thursday that he was going to figure out what he owed me form his pay for the past 4 months and would take care of it on Friday.....That never happened.....Don't know why I even thought he would actually do something he says...How did he turn into such a tool?? My god!!!

First court date on March 28th.

I removed all the joint bank accounts from our joint credit cards and sent him the passwords and told him that he need to call and have me removed from the credit cards as he is the primary card holder... he hasn't done that. I will call and see if I can cancel it myself..I am not even sure if he can keep the accounts???
Also he is using our cable to watch his sports at the skanks house, since his name is on the cable account I can not cancel it, he has to. When I asked about it, he said that it can wait, no big deal...just keep paying it out of the joint...UGHHHH.. And the phones, that are bundled with the cable, he said just leave all of that we don't need to do anything with it now...

He wants out and I am trying to cut the ties, but he just keeps kicking the can down the road...He makes my blood boil..lots of anger tonight

[DejaVu6]

I hear you Stella. The uncoupling of the finances is stressful and even more so when your WAS is so blasé about it. I know it’s frustrating. Eventually it will all be taken care of. Just breathe. You’re grieving. Focus on the things you can do for yourself.

Sorry to hear you have court so soon. I’m sure that isn’t helping. (((HUGS)))

[Stella20]

Why is he being so blase' about it? Has he not realized the reality of his actions, and the pending divorce? Why keep kicking these things down the road? When I ask if he wants to keep going with the D..and he gives a no answer, answer?? Why can't he just say..."yes I want this D"? WTF...Why tell me he misses everything, but does nothing to fix it? So sick of friends telling me he acts normal in public..Acts like a man that is not going through a D. Smiling, laughing and partying, like he has no care in the world. Like, oh thats life, these things happen, no big deal, people fall in love and get divorced everyday...

Maybe he and I are better off not being together. Maybe I was a horrible wife and he really has found his new happy, in his eyes... I wasn't a perfect wife, but I was faithful, loving, supportive. I was stable, predictable and, as H said.. boring..Yep, I am not a bar fly, I don't flirt with other men and try to break up marriages...I don't act like a skank with no morals, and no respect for others or self...Never realized that my H found that attractive in women..

Sorry, bad morning..feeling sad and crappy..I miss him so f-ing much....

[DejaVu6]

My H took months to say the “D” word. Months. He kept telling me he needed time and space to “figure things out” and then suddenly…he presents me with a legal agreement. I don’t know why your H won’t say it. The most logical explanation is that he just doesn’t want to get into an emotional confrontation about it. And he is probably conflicted. He knows you haven’t done anything to deserve the pain he is causing you. He knows he is a giant a$$ for having an affair. He knows he has let you down and, in many ways, he has let himself down. He didn’t marry you with divorce in mind. He just knows he is unhappy and this is his way of trying to make himself happy. It’s not fair, it’s not logical but it is what it is.

Stella… you have to find a way to detach and let him go. Asking him these questions and trying to “wake him up” will not help. It will only push him further away because it adds pressure and he wants to run from pressure. OW = no pressure. That’s what he wants right now. Take the focus off of him and start rebuilding your life for you. Getting a divorce doesn’t mean you can never have a relationship with him again. My old basketball coach was divorced from his wife for five years and now they are back together. It happens. But you can’t plan for it or count on it. All you can do is accept where things are at right now and do what is best for you.

When you talk with him, do NOT ask him if he wants this divorce. He is showing you that he does. Try to approach it from a business perspective and get the best deal you can for yourself so if he never returns, you will be okay. And trust me… you WILL be okay Stella… just not right now. You are grieving a death…the death of your marriage and your H as you knew him. Your sadness and anger are normal responses to a traumatic event. Time will help you heal…you just have to give it a chance.

So sorry you are going through this my friend. I know how awful it is. The break up of my marriage was the WORST experience of my life without a doubt. It almost destroyed me. But it didn’t and looking back, I have had many experiences and formed friendships with people that I never would have if I were still married. I am grateful for those.

There is life after divorce Stella. Not the one you thought you would have but a good one nonetheless. It’s up to you to make it that way. (((HUGS)))

[DnJ]

Good Morning Stella

H also text on Thursday that he was going to figure out what he owed me form his pay for the past 4 months and would take care of it on Friday.....That never happened.....Don't know why I even thought he would actually do something he says...

Most crisis individuals are terrible at keeping appointment or schedules or being responsible. I’m guessing H used to be the opposite. Right?

The pod person that’s taken over will behave like an alien.

How did he turn into such a tool?? My god!!!

Why is he being so blase' about it? Has he not realized the reality of his actions, and the pending divorce? Why keep kicking these things down the road? When I ask if he wants to keep going with the D..and he gives a no answer, answer?? Why can't he just say..."yes I want this D"? WTF...Why tell me he misses everything, but does nothing to fix it? So sick of friends telling me he acts normal in public..Acts like a man that is not going through a D. Smiling, laughing and partying, like he has no care in the world. Like, oh thats life, these things happen, no big deal, people fall in love and get divorced everyday...

Unrealized and unreconciled past trauma(s). His emotions are cranked to eleven, and he is always depressed.

MLCers destroy their lives and cause much collateral damage to those they once held dear. Their torment is near unfathomable. And they assign us, the LBS, as the cause.

H will expend incredible energies to maintain and foster his new narrative fantasy reality. He absolutely needs to. For he cannot emotionally accept his internal pains.

MLCers wear a mask. Their public facade is “everything is wonderful”. They got it all under control. Realize H is doing something to run from his ceaseless pain and torment. This does provide some relief simply due to the newest of things. The running behaviours do alleviate, more distract from, the never ending emotional turmoil.

Alas, their crisis is just that, a crisis. When they are alone, or still, or not otherwise distracted - there they are. No matter how far and fast you run, you are always with yourself. When he lay in bed, in the still of the night’s dark embrace, the demons take hold and play.

Why he cannot realize the reality of the situation. Because he is living within his fantasy. In his version of reality, divorce is easy and no big deal. His actions are just the way it is and again no big deal.

A few weeks after BD, my XW told me, and more the kids, that she researched the five stages of grief - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance - and that we should be over this in a week and she gave us two. That is how their minds / emotions work right now. Fantasy. Anything that doesn’t fit or go along with their narrative is ignored or mowed down while they run. And they do not realize it! They only feel like everything is finally going right and in their favour. Which of course is such a self deception of their part.

MLCer’s with children usually become terrible parents. They have to. It’s a byproduct of their emotions being cranked to eleven. They are in such overdrive, they cannot handle anyone else’s emotions or life - their spouse’s, their children’s, their parent’s, their friend’s, their pet’s, etc - all thrown aside. New partner and new friends are commonplace in a crisis.

Maybe he and I are better off not being together.

Yes. With who he is right now. Yes you are better off. (((Hug)))

Maybe I was a horrible wife and he really has found his new happy, in his eyes... I wasn't a perfect wife, but I was faithful, loving, supportive. I was stable, predictable and, as H said.. boring..Yep, I am not a bar fly, I don't flirt with other men and try to break up marriages...I don't act like a skank with no morals, and no respect for others or self...Never realized that my H found that attractive in women..

No! You were not horrible. Do not make his path and life choices about yourself!

This is all about H. You were happily married and planning on being together forever. We all have a time of self doubts when the gets rug pulled out from under us in such a wild bizarre manner.

By the way, a skank with low/no morals or self respect is not attractive. H is drawn because of his turmoil, not for those tenets. That relationship is built upon deceit and immoral behaviour; not a good foundation.

Be you. Strong, stable, responsible, etc. That is far from boring to an emotional health man.

Sorry, bad morning..feeling sad and crappy..I miss him so f-ing much....

Yep. Detaching and withdrawal is difficult. Hang in there.

D

[Stella20]

Thanks D & Deja,

I had a bit of a melt down this morning... I hate everything MLC!!!!

Yes, he use to take care of things, when he said he would..Now..no sense of urgency, not time lines...

I know he is depressed..I think last Friday, when he sent me all of those messages, he was finally alone with his demons, short lived but still, they started to bubble up for him.. That was the first time he said he was still not happy and missed everything. But since then has cut back on contacting me..(shocking right, lol) which is fine with me.. Kind of blew the NC for a few days last week..oh well..live and learn

And that is how he is dealing with all of this, with his mask on. Acting as though "these things just happen", that its normal to destroy your life like this... I can not control him or his actions..

Just need to keep focusing on me, getting a job and GAL... Did pretty good last week.. Had a great night on Friday with dinner with Family..Posted a picture of the food on FB, my Nephew was sitting in front of me, but you could not tell it was him. Looked like I was out on a date. I did not intend the picture to look like that, but, whatever.. Within minutes of me posting it one of H's buddies messaged me and asked where I was and who I was with.. I told him out with friends..Wanted to say..none of your buisness...a$$hat..A little mistery never hurts, right...

Had some cocktails with my Niece when we got back to my house, and some good discussions, it was nice to have someone here.. Told my Nephew he could come live with me rent free if he wanted to..He could have the whole basement, it has a bar, bathroom, bedroom, living room, garage access... Just needs to mow the lawn and help with the pool this summer.. It would help if someone was here with me, it gets really lonely..

Also, I have been flip flopping alot this week with...Why would I want him back after all of this and knowing what he is truely capable of doing, to, I can't give up on us, and I need to hold onto hope..such a mind F...

Hopefully I can land a job soon, I know that will help alot...

Thanks everyone
Stella..

[DnJ]

Hello Stella

I’m glad you had a good time out on Friday with family and friends.

I have been flip flopping alot this week with...Why would I want him back after all of this and knowing what he is truely capable of doing, to, I can't give up on us, and I need to hold onto hope..such a mind F...

It’s ok. You don’t need to decide those answers right now.

Good luck with the job search.

D

[bttrfly]

Keep these texts and emails from H in a folder in case you need them for legal purposes. Keep track on a spreadsheet of what he agreed to, the timeframe he said he'd do it, and whether or not it was taken care of.
Anything kicked down the road is, imho, fodder for putting into an agreement. If he signs, and is legally on the hook and misses a deadline he will then be in contempt with the courts.

Protect yourself. Do not trust a word he says, only actions. People tell you Every Day who they are by their actions, not merely their words.

xo,
-P.

[job]

To add to the advice bttrfly has given you, keep all of that information in a safe place, a place where he cannot get to it. They become the mirror image of the person you once knew. They aren't the same people and you cannot trust them to do right by you.

[Eagle3]

I know he is depressed..I think last Friday, when he sent me all of those messages, he was finally alone with his demons, short lived but still, they started to bubble up for him.. That was the first time he said he was still not happy and missed everything. But since then has cut back on contacting me..(shocking right, lol) which is fine with me.. Kind of blew the NC for a few days last week..oh well..live and learn

And that is how he is dealing with all of this, with his mask on. Acting as though "these things just happen", that its normal to destroy your life like this... I can not control him or his actions.

Please be prepared that he will have these moments many times. I can't number the times my EXH told me these things and the next day all gone again. You simply can't trust anything he says right now. I know it is very difficult Stella...hold on and take care of yourself!

[Stella20]

Signed documents back from lawyer this morning. Will be filed electronically so we will not be going to court on the 28th. Haven't seen H since the Feb. 9th., when he said he would take care of the snow for the rest of winter..that never happened..

Not that I wanted to go to court, but I wanted to see him, why.. I don't know why...to torture myself..Its not really him anyway. He wouldn't care what I looked like or how I feel, and if he did he would just bury his emotions anyway. Last contact from H was last Thursday text about asset splits..

OW's H called me yesterday, haven't spoken to him in a long while. Told me that she called him crying, upset about the mess she made between them, how they had gotten to this point of D and said she was still not happy. I told him that H had told me he was not happy either, but there is nothing either of us can do for them. H & OW have a bowling tourny trip planned back to the scene of the crime, in May. They both just keep digging in, dosen't matter what they are telling us...The lies they keep telling themselves just keep winning..keep running away..I told her H.. at least we don't have to see the destrutive behavior anymore, they are destroying each other with the drinking, the A, there guilt and shame. Someday they both will have to look in the mirror and come to terms with the damage they have caused. Now she can put up with his drunkenness, like I did all summer..not all rainbows and unicorns when you have to live with it..

Next court date is June 6th. Not sure if that is when the D will be final or if that starts the 6 month waiting period..??? My sister thinks it will be final 6 months after that, but I am not sure..

Whatever, this all just [censored], just keep waiting to wake up from the nightmare that has become my life.
S

[BL42]

Stella20,

Not that I wanted to go to court, but I wanted to see him, why.. I don't know why...to torture myself..Its not really him anyway. He wouldn't care what I looked like or how I feel, and if he did he would just bury his emotions anyway.

It's natural to want to see him. You likely still have some hope or expectations if he sees you he'll change his mind. Try to drop that notion. The more time away seeing and hearing from him the easier it'll get to detach.

OW's H called me yesterday, haven't spoken to him in a long while. Told me that she called him crying, upset about the mess she made between them, how they had gotten to this point of D and said she was still not happy. I told him that H had told me he was not happy either, but there is nothing either of us can do for them. H & OW have a bowling tourny trip planned back to the scene of the crime, in May. They both just keep digging in, dosen't matter what they are telling us...The lies they keep telling themselves just keep winning..keep running away..I told her H.. at least we don't have to see the destrutive behavior anymore, they are destroying each other with the drinking, the A, there guilt and shame. Someday they both will have to look in the mirror and come to terms with the damage they have caused. Now she can put up with his drunkenness, like I did all summer..not all rainbows and unicorns when you have to live with it..

Ah, a peak into the other side...the grass is not always greener is it? But that's up for your STBXH to figure out for himself. Time to leave him in the rear view mirror and make sure you're getting out and loving life. Also, keep in mind OW's H may have a bias or agenda for calling and what he tells you.

Whatever, this all just [censored], just keep waiting to wake up from the nightmare that has become my life.

I completely get it. It's tough. Do your best though to flip the narrative. It's incumbent upon you to ensure your life is fantastic, even without him. The sooner you get there the happier you'll be (and incidentally more attractive you'll be as well).

[Stella20]

Thanks BL,
Yep you are right, that was what I was hoping, still hoping that he stops being this MLC H, that he would see me and remember all the love we shared. Hope..thats what holds me back..unrealistic expectations... But it is better for me to not see him.

That grass is brown and dying, and infested with all kinds of soul killing varman....lol I don't really talk to her H anymore, but, he seems like a nice guy. (then again my judgement in men is questionable at this point) I have distanced myself from him, but curiosity got the best of me when he called, so down the rabbit hole I went. Not sure if what he told me is true or not, but it dosent matter, nothing that I or him can do. Just sit back, grab the popcorn and watch the train wreck.

Going out to dinner tonight with SIL and Niece, so that will be nice. Got outside today, it was 60..thats a heat wave in Wisconsin..Went for a walk and did some yard work..Creepy neighbor walked across the street and was hitting on my again...seriously, down boy...not gonna happen, ever... He is a weird one, and not in a good way..Have 2 interviews set up for tomorrow..
So working on GAL. Working on making plans for the weekend..
Just feeling numb..

Oh yeah, almost forgot...H sent me pictures, this afternoon, of his step brothers new baby, just born today..Not sure why, I just replied "Awe she is adorable, send them my congrats..." Another part of life he will take away, my newest niece..

Stella

[kml]

Oh yeah, almost forgot...H sent me pictures, this afternoon, of his step brothers new baby, just born today..Not sure why, I just replied "Awe she is adorable, send them my congrats..." Another part of life he will take away, my newest niece..

You're doing fine, just wanted to point out, you didn't have to respond to his message. You could have reached out directly to his step brother and congratulated them. Some family members will keep in touch, some won't (blood is thicker than water - hmmm... but doesn't apply here?). Just give them the opportunity to show you which they are.

[DnJ]

Hello Stella

…that was what I was hoping, still hoping that he stops being this MLC H, that he would see me and remember all the love we shared. Hope..thats what holds me back..unrealistic expectations...

A bit about hope, as I see it anyhow.

Hope is desire. Positive outcomes we cherish or would like to come to fruition. Hope is an incredible wellspring of strength and in my opinion a more uplifting force than one that holds a person back.

Hope is timeless. Born from inner desires and convictions. Hope lives within the possibilities. It looks to the future. Hope illustrates something deep and positive of those who live it.

Desire is a spectrum. On one end, fanciful wishes. Wishes are unrealistic desires, those things with very low probability; like I wish I could win the lottery. These are rather timeless and more dreamlike.

Expectations are on the other end of the spectrum. We place a high likelihood upon these desires being fulfilled. Most of our expectations are pragmatic in nature and go rather unnoticed; I expect traffic to stop at red lights, I expect to not fall in the shower, and so on. We expect, and rightly so, many things in our day to day lives. The problems arise when expectations go unmet, for resentment grows and builds then.

Hope lay in the middle of this spectrum of desire. It is not a fanciful wish, nor an expected desire, it is timeless in the very best sense. Hope is desire for a positive outcome that is possible, yet not expected within some timeframe.

When one places a timeframe or deadline upon a hopeful desire, it does just that - makes hope dead. A timeframe/deadline turns hope into an expectation.

In the context of MLCers and the situations regarding these folks in crisis - keep expectations at zero. MLCers are terrible at meeting expectations, and the more your expectations go unmet, the more you will resent. You can hope and love and live; all without any timeframe / deadline / expectation of H awaking.

When you discover your beliefs, those deeply held convictions and tenets of life, you can maintain hope and still move forward. That is what “standing for you” is about.

On its surface hope does feel a little like being held back. Feelings are fleeting; do not make life altering decisions based upon them. Look deep within for your values and follow those. I deeply value and hold most dear the possibilities within life. There is vey little I see or believe as truly impossible. And hope lives in the positive possibilities.

Unrealistic expectations come from placing time upon hope. Remove your time component. Let hope live, while you live your great wonderful life. Honest, it does not hold you back. In fact, a hopeful outlook and belief will propel you forward.

If I may, alter your hopes for H. Hoping that he “stops” is placing a time expectation upon his path. You are seeking him to stop. Instead, hope that he traverses his journey fully.

I hope my XW finds her way out of her darkness. And if that is truly impossible, that she cannot awaken, I hope, and have prayed, that she finds happiness and peace. Yes, that means with OM. I’m not seeking nor wishing nor hoping that her life is one of misery and unhappiness.

As I’ve often said, MLC is horrible, I’d not wish it upon anyone. And that included J long before I realized it did. Forgiveness and hope do not hold you back. Craft and strengthen well, for it will serve you.

D

[Stella20]

Thanks D,
You truely have the gift of words, the way you put all of this is beautifly explained.
Stella

[BL42]

Stella20,

Just sit back, grab the popcorn and watch the train wreck.

Instead, how about you stand up mid-show and walk right out of the theatre. Put H & OW's train wreck in your rearview mirror and focus on making your life incredible.

[Stella20]

Good Morning,
Good news, I got a job !!! Starts on April 4th...Hybrid work so some offices some at home. Had interview yesterday at noon and got a offer letter by 4 pm.. I have spent so many years being the interviewer that I had no idea how I did on the other side.. Completly different from what I was doing... Nervous and excited... But looking forward to have my days filled with something other than what it has been.

[kml]

Wow, that was fast!!!’ Congratulations!!!

[Elbereth]

Great news! Congratulations!

[DejaVu6]

That’s fantastic news Stella!! Congratulations.

[DnJ]

Congratulations! What great news!

[bttrfly]

YAY!

[Stella20]

Hi All,
So H's mom called me over the weekend. Asked me to stop the D and to keep fighting for H. I told her that I can not stop the divorce. That I have to protect myself finacially and I can not trust him to do the right thing when it comes to my future. I told her that I will always love H, and I still want our marriage, but I can not fight a one sided battle. Told her that H has not said that he does not want a D and He is still living with OW and having a public affair and acting like he is just fine.

She told me that she doesn't think things are all great with H and OW. (no kidding, geez can't imagine why) And that H is worried about how my family would every get over all this, holidays with the family would never work. I told her that these are all consequences of his actions, I spoke with him in depth about all of that before he left me, and before I knew about MLC. I told her that the first thing he needs to do is get rid of OW and start working fix himself. Told her that I would be there for him, but I can not just put my life on hold while he is out there living like a rockstar. Then we could move forward from there. And him bringing up my family is just another excuse to keep doing what he is doing..

I told her that he would have a long journey back from this, but he has to want it and he has to start it. I told her the man he was would fight through He!! to save us, but he is not that man now. It is all on him, anything is possible, but I have done everything I possible could. I told her that he doesn't contact me and will not come to the house. She said that she thinks its too hard for him to come to the house....Well cry me a river, I live in our memories ever f-ing day.... Said I should ask him to lunch to talk.. I told her again, this all has to come from him, I am not forcing this sh!t anymore with him.

We talked about depression and MLC, She was asking about MLC and if anyone ever comes out of it. I told her people can come out of it, but H has stopped seeing his IC, so I don't think he is looking into anything being wrong with him ( as he tells everyone he is fine) and this could last for years.. so who knows!!!

So not really sure where this all came form, and why she wanted to talk about it all.. I know she doesn't want to see us lose each other, but it is out of my hands.

I did tell her that my Dad has been having some issues with his heart lately and I was on my way to see him over the weekend. She said that I should tell H about it. H loves/loved my Dad so I did text him about what was going on. He responded immediatly and said to "please keep him updated on Dad" Dad is ok, dealing with A FIB.. but thinks it is all under controll. I have not given H a update yet... Not sure if I am going to.. Thoughts??? I figure if he wants to know he will reach out.

So frustrating...
Stella

[AndrewP]

I have not given H a update yet... Not sure if I am going to.. Thoughts??? I figure if he wants to know he will reach out.

Good job on having solid boundaries, clear communication and having consequences for his actions / inaction.

You've been fired from the job of keeping him up to date about your personal life or operating as his social secretary. If he wants to know something he can find out for himself.

I know I'm sounding harsh, but it's pretty common that we LBS are expected to keep doing the adulting for our spouses when they go a-wandering. That holds them back from realizing the consequences of their actions if there are no consequences.

[BL42]

Stella20,

I'm sure it's tempting, but be wary of discussing details / venting / strategizing with your MIL. It's comforting to know she's against the affair and supports the marriage but, like you, she can not control him either and ultimately he is her son so even if she likes you and doesn't want the divorce, she'll always be his mother.

Imo you did the right thing not taking action on her request to ask H to lunch to talk. You're right...it's on him at this point.

I personally wouldn't keep him updated on your dad. Going out of your way to keep him updated on your family feels fake and likely comes with expectations on your side. He's living with OW and divorcing you...you don't need to keep him in the loop on your family's business anymore.

[kml]

I think generally your response to your MIL was right on target - H has to WANT it, and has to do the hard work involved. It's not up to you. And you need to go forward with your life. Perfect.

The only thing I wouldn't have done is inform him about your dad. I know it's hard to resist reaching out - but resist it. He can't miss you when you're not even gone.

[Stella20]

Thanks Andrew and BL,
MIL, lost her Mom and her H this last year and a half, so its hard for me to not take her calls, I can not shut off my heart like H did. She is all alone now too. H is her only child (2 stepbrothers from her 1st m) So this has been tough on her too. She is slowly losing her whole family. Its all heartbreaking, we are all hurting and have had a bad stretch for the last year and a half. But her and I have not gone off the deep in like H. So disgusting to think of what he is doing to me and his mom and the whole family, during a time we should be pulling together to greive the loses of loved ones. Guess it easier to go full force lala fantasy land than to live in reality with the rest of us... What a selfesh a$$hole.... He only stops to see her on Wednesday for like 1 hour.. and he passes her house every day on the way back to the skanks...

Anyway, I did not really vent to her, just listened and gave her my responses.. She knows I love him and always will... Sounded like he opened up to her a little bit... a really little little bit..

[DnJ]

Well done Stella.

You are correct, H has to want to heal and come back. And he has a long road ahead of him.

Be careful sharing with MIL. In the end, she is his Mom.

That being said, your responses were very good. You handled yourself perfectly.

Keep to the business at hand. This is just a business deal gone sideways. And well done sticking to your boundaries and your path. MIL sure did apply some pressure.

D

[kml]

And you don't need to abandon your MIL if you don't want to - just let her know that your relationship with her is your relationship, but that you won't be discussing H with her anymore. Then change the subject.

[DejaVu6]

I concur with what others have said. My MIL lived in the suite in our home so I saw her every day…for 13 years. She was my rock when XH abandoned us for his fake medical treatments and when I found out about his double life, she found out about it at the same time. She was mad too but I doubt she ever really let him know that. He is her only child and when you have all your eggs in one basket, you don’t want to risk tipping it over. So while she had a lot of empathy for me, at the end of the day, she is still his mom.

Case in point…I initially bought XH out of his part of our home and lived there for a couple years before I decided it was time to really move on. So I sold my share of the house back to XH and he and OW moved in. So now she lives with them and sees OW every day. My kids also live there 50% of the time so it’s like everything is as it was except someone else is in my place. It doesn’t bother me anymore. XMIL and I still have a positive relationship. We share custody of my dog so I see her on dog exchanges and we have a good chat. We rarely talk about XH…only if she brings him up and usually it is in the context of his relationship with other family members. I listen but I don’t contribute much. Not my circus anymore, not my monkeys.

Next month, I am going to visit my first XH and his family. They love me just as much as they always did. XH’s second wife (they’ve been separated for 10 years) does not visit and doesn’t have the same relationship with the family that I do. That is more to do with her personality than it has to do with them as they are wonderful people and I’m sure gave her every opportunity to be close to them. She was not an affair. He met her a couple years after we split.

Anyway…you don’t have to end your relationship with his side of the family. It will just be a bit different. I am also still friends with XH’s cousins and we talk occasionally. His siblings are a lot younger and we are FB friends. It’s not the same but all they support me and want the best for me. Really….the only people I have lost in all of this who meant anything to me is XH.

Keep doing what you are doing Stella. There is life after this mess gets cleaned up a bit. (((HUGS)))

[Stella20]

Time for a new post...



https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=newpost&Board=28