It's been over four months since BD. Found out about PA with good friend of ours. AP is also married, but aren't close with her spouse. H says he felt I had fallen out of love with him. And he wasn't sure if he was in love with me anymore.
He was/is going through depression/guilt about dad passing and having hard feelings towards his dad. H says I wasn't someone he could talk to because of some things I said in the past about things between him and his dad. We've always said we were "best friends" and that I could tell him what I thought. I tried to apologize for my thoughtless comments, but I guess he didn't forgive me or trust me after that.
His AP also lost parent soon after we lost his dad and they started bonding via text over that. What ensued was approximately 5 months of sexting, meetups for oral, etc. When I found out in Nov, it was apparently already over for a couple of weeks as they both felt guilty, but they were trying to stay "friends." That "friendship" stopped after I found out. NC has been in place. I know because for the first 3 months I checked everything, have tracker on his phone, etc. But that was driving me crazy so I stopped checking and obsessively trying to find out what he's doing.
I will say, it took almost a month of snooping to find out all the lies. This after he swore he told me the "truth" about everything. Found out about pictures, sexting, etc. He lied about the number of times they got together, etc.The finding out just how much he lied was so very hard. Especially after promising he told me everything.
I know he's been going through a lot for a while. He has been unhappy with the job for a long time and some goals he never reached. Realized he was getting older and not as healthy. Hasn't been able to other sports activities as much because of a lingering injury. Feeling libido waning for the past couple of years. Financial worries as I've been out of work for a while without pay. There's more, but I know we need to try to keep some details out just in case others may figure out who this is.
A few years ago (2 or 3 now, I think) he mentioned he thinks, that maybe most of our friends, are going through some form of midlife crisis. I tried to offer him ideas and advice about getting a new job, going back to school, or finding something else to help him with his dissatisfaction. Even up to a month ago, I was trying to be supportive and helpful about his life (job, activities, etc). But it seems that only made him frustrated with me. He reminded me there was a time I just wanted him to "listen" and not try to fix and now I am the one trying to "fix" things so I have stopped.
Right after dday, he seemed truly remorseful and fully "in" to try and repair our marriage. He still said he didn't know what he wanted if he wanted to stay married to me, but he was really trying. We did MC and Retrovaille couples retreat. We were working on things. But about a month ago, I thought we were in a good place so I asked if he was ready to commit to the marriage. Wrong thing to do! He has pulled back completely. He won't touch me, kiss me, or anything. We are still living at home. He is still in our MB, but no touching at all. We talk about mundane things (covid, the kids, the news) but I have done everything I can to detach and let him do his own thing.
During our last MC, he mentioned once again that I was trying to analyze him. Our MC told me to stay in my own lane and to let him go through what he is going through. He'll have to do it at his own pace as he is an "avoidant" personality. She was trying to get him to admit he has hidden anger. He says he doesn't, but he has gotten angry with me in the past couple of months so I know there is that and some resentment there. I also shared in MC that he has been rewriting history and making me the bad guy in this. I guess that's normal and I can't do anything to make him see me or our life differently at this point.
The tragedy is, our core friends/family (we have a number of us who regularly hang out... I mean almost every weekend), thought of us as the perfect couple. Always touching, kissing, hugging and saying we love you. Always doing things for each other and going out of our way not to argue. Some of our couples friends know. I shared it and that's another bone of contention between us because he now feels ashamed and humiliated (as do I really), but I thought if our friends knew, they could offer us support and encouragement. They want to, but as I said H is avoidant so he won't reach out, even if I do. So I am limiting who I reach out to so if he does want to talk to them he won't feel I 'poisoned' them against him.
I hadn't gotten DR yet nor found this site so I know I should have already stopped MC. Actually, just found this site a few days ago and have been obsessively reading threads and after reading MLC stages, realized that's what he's suffering. So now, here I am scared to tell my story, but needing some advice.
How do you navigate detachment and GAL when still living together?
For the first time yesterday, he looked me in the eyes when he was talking, smiled at me when having dinner with the kids as a family, and I felt him softening. I know not to believe anything he says and only half of what he does. So I know I am in this for a very long haul. It seems like he's already in Depression/Withdrawal. But hey, he could be cycling in replay, etc.
I know this can take a long long time. I just want to get back to me and being there for our teenage kids who still need two solid, loving parents. I am doing a lot of soul searching. Writing a list of what I want to do for me. Things maybe I stopped doing.
I am also doing everything I can to get a job. Unfortunately, it's been tough in my field and at my level. I am even willing to take a lot less pay to just get out there and rebuild my own feelings of self-worth. I am terrified of how long trying to get a job has been taking. And now with the virus, it's even tougher.
Any advice for GAL while being stuck at home? I have really been reaching out to old friends and old colleagues. Prior to the shutdown, I was going on hikes with friends, going to lunch, getting coffee.... I read a ton, listen to music and am trying to work on my PIES (physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual) areas.
I am learning to let go and let God. Have been terrible at that, but getting better. Thank you for your inspiration. There are posts from over a decade ago that resonate with me and have helped my stomach to unknot a little and for me to realize that the one trait I don't have but will earn through this process is patience.
Thank you in advance for your advice and support!
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
MLCers tend to bounce back and forth through the anger, replay, depression and withdrawal. The depression that we speak of here is a very deep, dark depression that will eventually come around and that's when they withdraw from just about everything. Right now, he's very new to the crisis, i.e., only 4 months since the BD. The stages are not linear, i.e., just like the stages of grief.
I would definitely consider ceasing the MC and go with IC for yourself. MLCers tend to have selective memories and yes, they hear only what they want to hear and some go a few times and then call it quits. Until he's ready to give up the OW and put his focus back on the marriage/relationship w/you, there isn't any sense in going to MC.
I want you to take some time and think about what may have happened to him 18-24 months prior to the crisis. Generally, something happens to trigger the "rethinking of life in the past. For example, death of a parent or parents, friend, co-worker, promotion, demotion or loss of a job, major illness for himself or someone close to him, birth of a child or empty nest coming about, etc. Something always triggers them to start thinking about the "what ifs or what did I miss growing up".
We are all fixers and we want to fix things and them, but this is one time that you cannot fix him. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. He has to do that all on his own. This is a time of self discovery for you as well. Treat him as a roommate, go about your business and start making a list of the things that you have put off doing and start doing them.
A poster named HaWho had a live in h. He lived in his little funky dorm room in the basement for quite some time and then finally moved out. She has two sons and they all saw him go down into the rabbit hole.
This is a marathon, not a sprint, so dig deeper for patience, no relationship talks w/him. If he comes to you and wants to talk, listen and validate. Try not to argue w/him because he will be attempting to do so in order to validate why he feels the way that the does.
For now...keep the focus on you as much as possible and come here to post often.
Thank you, Job! I'll have to look up HaWho. 18 to 24 months ago... He has been very unhappy/dissatisfied with his job and being trapped (remote worker) at home for over a decade. But 2 years ago, he really started complaining about it. Then 13 months ago his dad had a stroke and subsequently passed. He has completely given up the OW. Like I shared, I had been checking his phone, computer, tablet, etc. And although I don't do that now, I do have a tracker on his phone which is never out of his site and I can see where he goes and even what sites he visits and how much. I hate to say, I still check that daily.
The thing is, my H is very steady. Never has had highs or lows emotionally. This is why this is so very hard for him. He cries when he never has before. He can't explain what he is feeling and the pain and loneliness, which I can understand as I actually have and still do struggle with anxiety and mild depression. Nothing I am medicated for, but I know the symptoms and signs as I've seen enough IC to know.
I had been seeing a IC and will do so again. Because I've done so much of this throughout my life, I already know what i need to work on. I have been using Byron Katie's the Work to help me look at my stressful thoughts. I use EFT tapping to help manage my anxiety and emotional pain. I meditate, pray often, and come to various boards to help find answers.
Then on top of that, I am building my life goal list anew. Without him as the central figure... and I journal. I will do what you say and not argue, but rather listen and validate. I do not know what he is going through. Even if I did and felt I maybe went through a very mild case of this myself a few years back, I don't know what he is going through.
I guess it's all about learning to be patient with him and myself. Blessings.
I know time is on my side. Wondering what the vets here do to deal with the pain of the PA/EA. He says he felt a strong connection with her that he can't explain. Like the one we had at the beginning of our relationship. And that connection turned into this crazy physical attraction. I have been dealing with the images, triggers, flooding... learned to control it in the past month, but the three months before that was so hard. I still sometimes feel this terrible pain. I know I am not supposed to show anything. I am supposed to be detached and following Sandi's rules.
I have found that I have been stronger because of this, but sometimes, just having to be around him and the kids... well it hurts. I miss him. I miss my best friend. I miss him touching me. We used to always hold hands or sit together even if we weren't talking. ALWAYS. It's been so painful. But I am trying so very hard to be positive, upbeat, and the "roommate." Not the wife. Not the love of his life. Not his best friend... it hurts so much sometimes...
Hello Believe
Welcome to the board.
It is at first scary to tell our stories. We are so full of self doubt and blame; we almost can’t even risk seeking others views. So, congratulations on your first of many victories and steps along your path.
First off, his mid life crisis is not your fault. In fact his slipping into his fog has nothing to do with you. A triggering event from a year or two ago awoken deep and painful long ago trauma(s) buried within him. The stroke and death of his father is very likely something that could have triggered his emotional crisis.
An MLCer suffered some trauma when they were young, by a person in a position of authority, and were emotional stunted. You seen it in H’s difficultly in expressing his feeling throughout his life. Although the upbringing of men does tend to reinforce that kind of limited emotional behaviour as well.
As job wisely said - you didn’t break him, therefore you can’t fix him. H is on his path and you aren’t invited. He needs space and time to sort out his feelings, and he will absolutely take the space and time his needs.
MLCers are in crisis. They operate on emotions, and their emotions are cranked to 11. You cannot reason with a MLCer, they will react and behave irrationally and erratically; doing whatever feels right at that moment. And what they do is try to outrun their pain and torment. This is not some over exuberant description, the MLCer blows their life apart attempting to destroy the terrible feelings.
The LBS, the once loved spouse, is the target of the MLCer’s projection and misguided justifications. A MLCer cannot handle being wrong; they cannot handle their new troubling emotions and long forgotten terror. They will blame you, the sky, the dog, whatever; it doesn’t have to make sense, and most times won’t make sense. But, it does to them. They keep lying and running.
A MLCer cannot face this reality. They are driven, and need to run. Strange, bizarre, and new behaviours overtake them. They become the opposite of who they once were. Sex, drug, alcohol, spending, etc. can become ways for them to run. These crisis people have poor coping skills and are emotional very young.
They are taken back to that time of their trauma, that emotional stunting, and need to grow up from there. It is almost like time travel. They live trapped in the past. A time when they didn’t know you, were not married, and didn’t have children. From that emotional place many become terrible parents and behave like spoiled teenagers.
How do you navigate detachment and GAL when still living together?
Detachment is very much needed. It is one of the best things you can do for yourself.
Focus on you and your kids.
Treat H like a roommate. Be friendly and kind, and be a roommate.
Stop snooping. I understand the draw to that tracker app. Delete it. You cannot control H. Knowing his whereabouts does you no good. You cannot detach if you keep hanging on.
I empathize with what you are going through. It is hard to let go. However, everything you learn about H’s behaviour is more you will have to deal with. The idea is to focus on you and let H do what he is driven to do. Remember he is going to do it anyhow, he is driven to. And those running behaviours can get pretty bad. The less that gets rubbed in your face, the less you see, the less you go looking for - the quicker you will heal and the better chance you have of outlasting this MLC.
A lot of advice will feel like the wrong thing to do. It is counterintuitive, at the moment. We all arrive here with no prior knowledge or experience with this stuff, and lost as to what to do. Our instinctive responses are oftentimes incorrect; this situation is counterintuitive.
The advice here is first and foremost for you and your healing. Focus on you. Give H time and space. Detach. Etc. The advice also gives you the best chance at a possible future reconciliation.
This is a marathon not a sprint.
You have the gift of time, use it well.
Stay strong.
DnJ
Hi B
Missed your post. Sorry.
Wondering what the vets here do to deal with the pain of the PA/EA.
Detach. Get through withdrawal of H. Let go. Find indifference.
Indifference is one of the mile markers on the LBS’s path. We become unfeeling towards our spouse and their behaviour. We then learn who and what we truly can control.
And pain usually has its roots in fear. Let go of fear.
All things that will come about - in time.
Keep the focus on you. Let time do it’s work.
DnJ
Thank you so much, DnJ! I am focusing on how to get through each moment. I am coming up with ways to "see" my kids not through the lens of my pain, but through the lens of never ending love. I have become too focused on getting my "family" back or saving my "family." I get that the family I thought we had is gone now. Whatever family is left if and when he comes out of MLC will be a new family and hopefully a much better one because he and I are better.
Looking back now, I realize how much I had changed since we got married and had kids. I knew nothing about raising kids. I knew I wanted them, but he was always so much more relaxed and gifted in that area. I am grateful that right now, he really is still being a good dad. He says the kids are the only thing that make him happy. At least he has that and really so do I.
The person I became was really a fixer, controlling, overly opinionated and sometimes not very affectionate. Although many would say we were overly affectionate to begin with so maybe it was more like becoming like others. I also realize I stopped sharing my true feelings and fears. I forgot how to have hunger for life. To keep growing and expanding. It's like I was waiting for permission to do things, want things, dream of things... I did have a bucket list, but the desire to actually do anything on it was forced. Maybe it was having kids. Maybe it was "settling" in to life. But I've felt lost myself off and on over the years.
The gift here is I am being forced to ask what I really want the next half of my life to be and if I want it to be with him. I still look at him and have that same melty feeling. I still believe the core of him is in there if he can find his way out of this. But I get it. He may never find his way out and that's not what i should be focusing on anyway.
I am getting better at not checking on him or worrying about him. I am working on both indifference and detachment as you say. I am learning to let go and let God, but it is so very hard. I am used to being in charge. To making strategic plans and following through to completion and success. But that's the thing about relationships. They have their own path and their own plan... I guess i just have to go along for the ride.
Thanks again! BTW, are there any success stories for marriages coming through MLC? I believe long ago Hearts Blessing had hers. But anyone recently?
Yes, Westo saved her marriage and she and her h are doing well now. I also believe that Gordie saved his marriage in the last year or so as well.
Some do not return to post once their marriages are come full circle. Others are more willing to post and give us updates from time to time. There is a thread at the top of this forum w/some success stories that may be of interest to you as well.
Thank you so much, Job! I will check them out. Happy friday!
Good Morning B
...are there any success stories for marriages coming through MLC? I believe long ago Hearts Blessing had hers. But anyone recently?
There are more successes than listed here. Building a new marriage takes effort and time. It stands to reason there are some posters reconciling and don’t have time, or the need or desire, to post.
As for success stories. There are many of those. True a divorce happened, and yet an incredible success was bore from destruction. All left behind spouses are writing their own success story.
I am single. XW is off running with unicorns and fairies, stubbornly living her fantasy life. My four children love me, have joy in their hearts, and have mostly forgiven their mother. I am happy, have joy, have love, have forgiven XW, have a peaceful and gentle life. I’ve been blessed. I am living within a success I could not see two years ago. I walk towards my unknown future with wonder and anticipation. Just imagine where I’ll be two years from now.
Have faith. The darkest times in our lives yield the best successes and growth.
DnJ
Hi
Welcome to the land of MLC
You already seem fairly grounded, especially being so new
Some people do get back together after affairs and D
This board is only a fraction of people in MLC-
I personally have a very good friend whose XH is still trying to get her back
they are good friends, but she is done
but it is usually a long and bumpy road
Best to continue to do as you r
detaching
letting go
creating new hobbies and ways to confort yourself
prayer, meditation, yoga ect
I just bought a coloring book, I have learned to play music and am practicing more meditation than ever during these stressful times
Keep coming here to vent and get ideas
all the best..
Journal: I saw Gordie do alot of Journal enteries... so here goes. It's been interesting sheltering in place. We took a walk as a family with our dog and saw lots of others doing the same. The OW lives less than a mile from us, but luckily we never see her. I don't know what my H would do or feel if he/we saw her out and about. He hasn't seen her in over 4 months. I used to see her driving her kids to school. It would trigger lots of feelings in me. Luckily, haven't seen her in a while and learning to have indifference.
I am working on detaching. For the first time in 2.5 weeks, he actually initiated sex. We haven't had it and we both are still very attracted to each other. He may not "want" me... but somehow he still finds me sexually attractive. He hasn't touched me unless to console me for the loss of a friend. About 3 weeks ago, I lost a good friend from high school and 2 weeks before that we lost our Godfather (from our wedding). But I knew my Godfather since I was a very little girl. Both losses have been hard.
He's been a good friend. Hold me and consoling me during the funerals, but other than those days/times not additional touching. His 3 main Love Languages is Physical Touch, Quality Time and Acts of service (although he says this is wrong and it should be Words of Affirmation). Mine are Words of Affirmation, Physical Touch and Quality Time.
I haven't been able to fill his love tank because he doesn't want to touch him. He hasn't given me ANY words of affirmation in more weeks than I can count. Probably 6 maybe...
The strange thing is I think he is already trying to "reconnect." The reason anything even happened last night was that we had spent a nice evening with the kids. We had dinner and played monopoly with the kids. We also watched "Messiah" on Netflix since that's one of the things he complained about before dday. That I would watch shows he wanted to watch without him. We don't talk during those shows. We sit across the room from each other, but we do at least watch together like roommates.
But last night I was heading to bed and I said, thank you for the nice evening with the kids and watching the show. I am glad we have had peaceful times. He stood up out of the blue and said come here. He held me for a long time. He was shaking and I could tell his eyes were sweating (that's what one of my guy friends call it when men cry because they typically never do... and my husband rarely does, but has done more in the past 4 months than in the 24 years we've been together).
Anyway, during him holding me he apologized for how much we are going through. We both said we were sorry for the hurt we are experiencing. I said I am giving him the time and space he needs as he has asked. I am trying to be patient as he asked. He said he didn't believe it, but he said it in a teasing tone. I told him, wait and see. I am doing what he asked and he said he was thankful.
I told him goodnight and headed to our room. Soon he followed, which is rare. I was already in bed when he came out after he took a shower (we both shower at night). That's when he turned to me. He never does. We sleep in our far corners and for the first time in a month, he kissed me like he did when we were first dating. He asked me if this was ok. I told him and I do mean it, that I will never regret being with him. Never. And I mean it.
I know some may say this is not Dbing. So be it. I need it too for my own peace of mind and heart. I do not think and I knew when it happened that this means we are anywhere near R. I know we are not. It just helped me to get some release so it was selfish on my part. He has been trying not to touch me at all and the other times before were me fully initiating, as he used to say I didn't initiate that much and that our sex had become predictable.
In fact, he knew when I wanted it and he could time it-- which was a turnoff. So I was trying to be more spontaneous. But when we had the big blow out on Valentine's he'd been trying to avoid any kind of touch, especially sex. So this was a big move for him... especially after avoiding touching me for so long.
Today though, I am proud because I have't tried to hold his hand or touch him. Even though on our long walk we would usually do that in the past (before 2/14/20 anyway). I have made sure to stay in the MBR and he is in his office since then. So I am giving him the space he needs.
I will say this past week, I have noticed him really looking me in the eyes. Smiling at me. Trying to connect with me. I have given him short answers, but been pleasant, positive and nice. Just as I would any acquaintance or casual friend. I don't know if this means he is starting or trying to reconnect.
My mantra now is patience patience patience. Kindness kindess kindness. Detach detach detach. I am praying and leaving it up to God.
We have a group party planned via Zoom this evening with our extended family and friends. This has deprived all of us of social interaction. We still do things with our family friends because many don't know and it would be wierd if we don't go together. That has actually allowed us a relief as we can talk to others and be ourselves. I don't worry about him in those situations and he, I think is surprised to see how well I am doing there too.
Sometimes I wonder if he is in MLC, but as Hearts Blessing says, each MLCer goes through their own journey. We can't compare. And the way my spouse has been is very very different than his normal behavior. Especially with the moodiness, complete withdrawal and him saying sometimes he wishes he could just be a hermit. He is still trying with the kids and now that he is reaching out to me, even just to look me in the eye?
I am not sure where this is all headed. I am just living one day and sometimes one minute at a time. Thank you for reading!
DnJ, thank you. You are right. I guess I am still wanting the promise we made before God and family. I think all who post here do, but I know not all make it. I am so grateful for the support and the willingness for others to chime in. It can be lonely as most of my friends don't know what it is like to be betrayed much less deal with someone in MLC.
I hope I didn't insult by stating I wanted success stories. I just wanted to know if marriages can make it through. Maybe the better question is can I make it through? Thank you for posting!
Thank you so much, PeaceToday! Great recommendations!
I was just painting my nails. We took a family walk (see my journal post above). I also watched Self Made (1st episode) on Netflix. Great flick so far. Will watch more. I have a list of things I want to do when I get a new job (been unemployed for a year). In the interim, i am researching things I want to learn, places I want to see and hobbies I want to indulge. I feel a bit selfish, but I am also trying to look into things I think my kids will want to do. They may be teenagers, but they still need their parents... I think I've been a good mom, but I also think I could be better so looking at what that would look like with teenagers.
I hope you are taking care of yourselves during this "shelter in place" times. It has been interesting for sure!
Believe,
It sounds like your situation has settled down quite a bit. Your h may be thinking about the world crisis and realizing that home is where he should be, i.e., not just physically, but emotionally and mentally. It could also be a small wake up call that so many people have contracted the virus and so many have passed on. Once the health crisis is over, it will be interesting to see if he continues on the current path of reconnecting or if he will go back into his own little world.
Just about every new poster asks about success stories, but as others have stated, even if the marriages/relationships are not reconciled, each and every poster is a success story. Why? Because they have rediscovered themselves, have been wiser, more independent and stronger in their values. They have learned patience and compassion for the fellow man. DBing is not only to try to save marriages....but to save us, to help us move forward and learn to live again, to enjoy each day as it comes and yes....eventually smile again and look to the future w/hope and anticipation of what may be out there waiting for us.
Good Morning B
I hope I didn't insult by stating I wanted success stories. I just wanted to know if marriages can make it through. Maybe the better question is can I make it through? Thank you for posting!
No insults taken on this side.
It’s perfectly natural to want to see and follow a success story. And yes we all come here wanting to save our marriages. In the unfortunate realm of MLC it takes a lot of time.
That being said, the LBS become a success story first. The M/R comes after, and is a bonus. You are the most important person in all this, and you will definitely make it through.
I know some may say this is not Dbing. So be it. I need it too for my own peace of mind and heart.
There is nothing wrong with being intimate. I am glad to see you not reading too much in to his initiating.
Sex is fun and bonding. Just keep things no pressure, and no expectations.
Most of us have a spouse deep within an affair. Sex is off the menu for many LBS due to our spouse’s affections are ensnared within an other; and if they are active elsewhere the chances of STD are greater. This doesn’t sound like your situation.
One of the rules of DBing is - Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
It’s ok to try something. Some things work, and some things don’t. For those that don’t, you can try again later. Much later usually. It’s a slow process. MLCers are on their own timeline.
It can be lonely as most of my friends don't know what it is like to be betrayed much less deal with someone in MLC.
Isn’t that the truth!
I had no idea, before BD, that this world existed. To my naive self a midlife crisis was when the guy buys a red Ferrari. I see people all around that have that Hollywood idea; not even a glimpse of the world that right in front of them.
It is a lonely journey (in the real world). Most people are happily ignorant and blissful unaware. And they want to keep it that way.
Here on our virtual land, we all have experienced betrayal and seen the unbelievable affects of MLC.
Your close friends and family probably will learn about MLC, to a certain point. They (maybe) haven’t walked in your shoes after all.
Our mostly solo journey grants many blessings. Empathy and compassion are among them. They extend well beyond our spouse.
If you can be kind to your spouse, even with all they’ve done, the guy that cut you off in traffic - yeah, whatever it doesn’t even matter. We so - don’t sweat the small stuff.
Have a great Sunday.
DnJ
Job, thank you so much for checking in. I am not sure if it's being housebound. Although we are going on a family hike today. Maybe it is and maybe once this is over he'll go back to wherever he's been. I have been still giving him room. We are once again like roommates, but at least I am learning to focus on me and who I want to be after all this... or even during. I've read so many of your posts and your wisdom, caring, and support are immeasurable to all of us.
I keep releasing and letting go. I do journal any little thing that seems like a positive. He has been so distant physically even when he sleeps. But last night, I woke up with a heavy weight on my chest. I think I still panic and have anxiety when my subconscious takes over. Anyway, I started to ask God to show me if what I am doing is helping at all. And before I even finished my prayer, my H rolled over and put his arm over me like he used to. I know he was deeply asleep because he was snoring softly.
I couldn't believe it. Even if it doesn't mean anything now, I know that something is working in this marriage and at least, I will be ok in all of this.
My H used to say one of the things that he was most attracted to when he met me was how strong I am. I think there is a difference between being strong and just being an a$$. I think I got to be too self righteous and too much of a know it all. I think that's what happens when you are an executive and report to Chiefs or Presidents, even of mid-sized companies. I became a woman who had to know and push and be controlling/driven.
I get that I had to do that to get the pay we wanted and keep the jobs I had. But my line of work has changed so much so I gave up who I really am to keep jobs that ulitmately keep laying me off. I don't want to keep doing that. I want to be the real me. The one who is strong without being controlling or pushy or judgmental. Strength to me means accepting others as they are. Facing tough things with grace, compassion, wisdom and courage.
I want her back. I am fighting to get her back because she is the real me and I love her.
DnJ, thank you for not taking offense. Before I got married to H, I was married to an alcoholic. We ended up getting divorced and an annulment. That "betrayal" felt similar to this, but because it was an addiction that my ex wouldn't fight, it felt like I had no choice.
This hurts much worse than this. Mostly because I didn't see this coming at all and I wasn't told about any of the issues before being blindsided. But I know we all went through this.
And now it's about finding me. Being me and free, powerful and strong as i can be. I had allowed myself to dwell in anxiety, depression and loss. I think I was going through my own softer version of MLC. My family of origin, we suffer from anxiety, depression, guilt and worry. It is something I am trying to break in my kids. My D15 has it sometimes, but she is seeing her on IC and she is doing much better than I ever was at her age.
I am looking at this terrible situation as a chance for me to break free of these addicting feelings. I often wonder if I became attached to those negative feelings because it made me feel safe somehow. I hid them from my H and I think he thought that I was hiding something more. He thought that I was lying to him and not telling him things and I thought the same of him.
Sad state of affair, but here we are. Funny. I write this but I am not sad. I am feeling peaceful knowing that I am facing so much. Or maybe this new level of pain, worry and anxiety is actually comfortable for me. I hope I'm actually healing and not getting deeper into these negative feelings. I use EFT tapping, meditation, prayer and mantras to keep me grounded and less volatile in my feelings. I just want this to be like floating down a river and not the "tower of terror" that another poster said this could be.
Have a happy Sunday and be safe in the world of the pandemic. Blessings
How do you cope when you think it's all going ok... You go out as a family on a hike and you are dealing with the pain of knowing that your MLCer doesn't feel the same way about you or your life as you do. You hold back the pain and pay attention to your kids. Trying to laugh at the family banter and seem like you are totally ok with H not loving you... I mentally congratulate myself on making it through that with a smile on my face and a generally peaceful outlook.
Then you come home and bond with D15 by watching BroadwayHD. I let her decide because we both love shows, but she even more so. She chooses the Phantom of the Opera because she's never seen it and her dad and I have talked about it for years. I didn't realize how much seeing it would destroy me. How I would begin to sob and feel such pain. She understood. She held my hand and didn't ask for anything. Just leaning against me. We didn't turn it off. Just watched through to intermission. We will finish it. Maybe tomorrow.
But I had to get out so I made an excuse to go get soda and a snack my daughter wanted. I just needed to be away from the house, from him who was in his office. He had come out right before I went to the store and asked how the show was. I just said it was sad and that I was going to get stuff at the store. He offered, but I told him that's ok. I want to go.
But when I was driving back, all the pain, betrayal, and anguish hit me again. I sobbed all the way home. I wish us LBS of MLCers would get to grieve and regroup like others. But for us, we aren't able to have the pain. If our MLCers see it, they think we are trying to control them or make them feel bad. Their brain is like that teenager that doesn't want to be told what to do or even to own up to when they've hurt someone.
So here I am holed up in the MBR. Trying to cope with this incredible pain and longing and fear. I thought I had it under control. I thought I was ok today. These cycles are brutal and they suck.
When he came in and asked me how I was, he could tell I was upset, I told him "i'm ok." I didn't look at him or say anything else. I just grabbed my soda and came to the MBR and locked the door. I know I am supposed to show that I am ok that I am upbeat and dealing and "moving on." But sometimes, I am just not able to do that. Sometimes I just want to go to sleep and never wake up.
Hi Believe6. It's a wild ride of emotions & then add on a pandemic! Geez! We all have moments like the one you described above. Let yourself greive. Let it out. Whatever release works for you. Know that you're not alone here. Lots of ups and downs. And moments when you realize, hey...I WILL be okay.
You sound like a strong woman who can fend for herself. Work on you and the rest will happen in time.
Thank you, CanBird. It's not fun. Well what about any of this could be fun, right? We were never promised an easy life. God, why couldn't we have an easy life? But then here we are...
So this morning I did the opposite of Dbing. I asked my H how he was doing when his alarm rang and before he got out of bed. It's all a jumble right now so I will do my best to share the story so maybe I can gain clarity or get someone else's perspective.
We talked about how we always promised to stay best friends. But we haven't even been real with each other. I get that we can't believe what an MLCer says. But he says he thinks people may have betrayed his trust because some of the things I've said or done have indicated that others may have shared things he told them in confidence. I asked him what things? He says he doesn't want to talk about it because he doesn't want to know if they did or not. I admitted that over the past few months I have tried to listen in on his conversations and that I have checked his various accounts. We agreed when he was "trying" to work on us that this is what I could do. I even have a tracking device on his phone.
After our talk this morning, he disabled the tracker. I found out and went to tell him I knew he did that. He said it's because he was mad- not sure if he's mad because I admitted I was tiring to listen in on him since this happened or what really. He is so mad about a lot of things.
He never uses the term angry. He hates angry people and believes I have had rage and anger and he is afraid of me. I've never hit him, but I have pounded on the ground or even hit my own self in the past. So I get why that scares him. A little background... his family doesn't express any feelings or talk about anything that may be considered "negative." They don't share problems, even medical history. They like to act as if everything is always perfect and always ok. My Family, we talked about everything growing up. Our angst. Our worries. Our pain. This is actually one reason I think he was attracted to me. I was so open about how I feel, what I think- good and bad, and how I see the world. In the past, that was ok. He loved it. Since this all came out 4+ months ago, now this is something he has a hard time with. It's hard to know how to be.
Anyway, during our talk this morning and before the whole tracker thing, we talked about how he feels I have been "robotic" and fake in at least 50% of our interactions. He feels awkward around me now and neither of us knows how to communicate. I shared that during MC a few weeks ago, he shared that he needs space. He needs to stop being "analyzed." He wants to run away and not have to deal with these feelings. He's confused and doesn't want to be rushed.
So I did the whole dbing thing. And now I'm robotic and fake. I can't really win here. I'm being upbeat. Staying away from any R talks or anything I think may upset him because he's confused, needs space to think on his own, and not have to deal with any of my feelings.
What should I be doing? My instinct tells me the 180 I was doing isn't working. It feels like now he needs to let his feelings out towards me. That the anger is actually getting worse because he's not sharing it. Being trapped at home is actually making things worse in that regard. We've pretended to be civil, but maybe that's not the way anymore?
I am so lost. When I told him I was removing the tracker app (which he installed BTW), I told him that it seems like he has things he wants to tell me. That I am open to hearing all the terrible things I've done. That I know he needs to let it out and I am willing to listen and not judge or blame or defend. I am willing to hear what he has to say. I told him that I want him to know, without a doubt that there is one person who absolutely loves him unconditionally.
I said this not because I am willing to be a doormat. On the contrary. The one thing I am SURE about is that my biggest value is LOVE. And that I am willing to love unconditionally.
This does not mean that I will accept all the blame. I won't. It means that I am willing to see as he sess. I am willing to accept that his perception of me, us and our life is HIS. I can't change it. I can't argue it away. It's his. And loving someone is knowing that they won't always, maybe not even most of the time, see things your way. But it is being willing to hear/listen to them. For them to feel validated, seen and heard if not agreed with.
So although I may not be doing this 180 thing right, right now. I am going with what I think will work. That is once again opening the door to conversation. Because this whole pretending we don't have issues, well it hasn't been working.
We'll see if he wants to share. I won't push it again. I'll let him tell me whatever he's ready to tell me when he's ready.
I will be open. I will prepare myself for the pain and the desire to defend. I am asking God for strength to change me. So that I will have my arms, heart, mind, and spirit wide open. That I will let whatever hurtful words, images, ideas, thoughts flow through me without snagging on my own feelings of denial, betrayal, defensiveness, or anger.
That he will feel heard. He will feel understood. He won't reach out to others. Even when the MC said to. I'm it. He's not even reaching out to the AP. If he was, he wouldn't be this distressed. So there it is. I am going to see where this goes. Praying for a miracle that maybe a little healing may start...
Believe,
There is an old saying around here, "if something is working, then continue doing it. If something isn't working, then try something else."
Listening and validating are key elements. Listen closely and sift through what he's saying and you just might figure out what is really going on w/him. Sometimes, when they open up, they can't stop talking...so really, really listen.
You are wise beyond your years...only accept 1/2 of the marriage breakdown. It takes two to marry and if one partner has not or will not open up about what they are feeling, how can the other partner know?
You've got this!
Thanks, Job! But I screwed up. I went downstairs to his office and asked if we could talk sometime. He said sure, but not about this. I am not even sure if he means "this" like the fact that he blocked me from the tracker or "this" like about us or even "this" like the things he thinks about me that are negative.
I know I should back off. He's completely still in MLC land. He switches from seemingly ok to having these assumptions about me and what I'm doing.
He stopped in a few minutes ago while I was applying for a job to get his vitamins. He takes them various times of the day because he needs to take 2 or 3 times a day so he's diligent about spreading it out. And he asks how my interviews are going. I admit I haven't heard anything. Which I haven't. I have a virtual one set up for Wendesday and I am so nervous. It's the job I really want. I know I need to clean up my internal energy so I can get that one.
But my heart and soul are in turmoil. How can I be anything but terrified of so many things right now? I wan this job. I need it. I have worked hard all my life and keep getting laid off, but I know it's not my work ethic or my abilities. I am hoping I'm not missing something and somehow I'm really messed up in my interactions and that's why I keep getting laid off.
There's a huge part that just wishes my life were over. I know that's going against positive thinking, but I am so very lost. I know that we aren't supposed to say that either. We are supposed to say we are finding ourselves or the positive version. That what we think about we bring about... blah blah... I have been doing that for years and I keep getting what I keep getting. Maybe I need a new brain or something.
I am running in circles now.
So here's what I think... when he looked at me, I could see such contempt. I could see him being angry even though he won't admit that he is. He hates anger and says he never gets angry. Our MC asked him if he is really looking at that. I know he won't. He avoids things that he doesn't want to deal with. I think that's why he's actually ok that we are awkward. It's like now he has an excuse to keep me at bay.
I think he is waiting until I get a job to tell me he really wants out. I am trying so hard not to give him that excuse. I am trying to show him I can be the wife he remembers and needs. I know that right now he doesn't want a wife. I know he doesn't even want a friend. He doesn't seem to want any friends. He seems to want to be a hermit and that he would be ok with that. What happened to the happy, social, so very loving and affectionate guy that he was? Where did he go?
When he was still trying a month and a half ago, he was still affectionate. He still said he loved me. Would this have happened to us if I didn't push him to commit? Or was this just waiting because he was already in MLC land and he was spinning? It's baffling and terrifying and so very painful. I just want this to stop.
I finally told my mom (who told my dad because he was listening in) that my marriage is in trouble. I told my mom I didn't trust her because she tends to share secrets with so many people. I didn't tell her about the affair or what he's been doing to me- pushing me away, not wanting to talk, etc. I just needed my mommy. She apologized for not being there for me when I was younger because she was trying to deal with her own abandonment issues (war baby, never met dad until she was 48 as he didn't claim her--- long story). She said she's been holding me in her mind now and that she loves me and is there for me. She surprised me by telling me no matter what happens I will be fine. We're Catholic so I was waiting for her to tell me divorce is a sin and blah... But she didn't. She said she's worried that I've carried the guilt of my prior marriage (which was annulled) to an alcoholic. She's worried that I have not been supported enough and loved enough.
She's a wise soul and has sage advice even if she tends to not be good at secrets. She even said I could move home if I needed to. But how? I can't leave my kids. Not when it's S last year and my D still has 3 more in High School. No, I need to stay. I need to fight for my kids and my own sanity.
I need to find a way to be strong through each torturous moment. Until I find a way that each moment is no longer torture but a way to build my future. This life of a LBS of an MLCer is so very very lonely. So bitterly hard and sad. I am trying and I feel I am failing. But I will get up again. I can only force that one action then I guess I win.
Believe,
I am so sorry you have a reason to be here. I'm sorry you are hurting. Please continue to write. Journal. Ask questions. Read other threads.
Your emotions are all over the place, and will continue to be. DnJ is correct when he says so many of them are rooted in fear. It took me a long time to let go of that fear, and to detach. I'm 1 1/2 years now with H out of the house and doing well, but I still regress from time to time. It's normal. Don't beat yourself up about it.
You can't control H's moods or actions. But you can choose to not let them be about you. You will hear a lot of advice here about focusing on You. Make this journey about you. Focus on your interviews, exercise, cook, read a good book, meditate, start a new craft. Whatever it is that you want to do. Do it. Take one day at a time. Sometimes we have to take one hour at a time.
Let the answers to your questions come to you. They are often elusive if we chase them.
Grace
Grace, thank you so much. I have been sitting here holding my rosary. Wanting to pray. Wanting that peace that just comes from doing something repetitive... the rosary has become my meditation.
For the past 8 days, I have said a rosary for the AP and her family. Her spouse doesn't know and I think she is trying to save her marriage. Although she said in one communication with me months ago that she was getting separated, but I drive by her house every day (at least I did) because of dropping D off at her activity. I would see her car and his truck. Anyway, that doesn't mean they aren't separated, but either way, I know she didn't tell him because I asked her not to her H had an affair years ago and she stayed. I told her why tell him now if she isn't sure what he'd do? I don't want her H coming after my family. So she promised she'd tell me. Now she could be a liar, after all she was a friend and lied with my H about this. But I believe she didn't tell her H. So I am praying for their marriage. That if at least their marriage can weather this storm (even if her H doesn't know) then maybe, in my own selfish mind, she won't be coming after my H. I think he would do even crazier things if she did reach back out to him. He wasn't "in love" with her but he says they had a connection that he can't explain.
Part of how he described the affair made me think that he was caught up in the dopamine high. But then, after reading so much about MLC and his comments about wanting to "run away" and "be a hermit" totally reminds me of some of the posts others have shared that Jim Conway says in his book. That the MLCer wants to go off to a desert island.
My H says he doesn't even know if he would want to be with anyone. He just wants to be alone. As I've stated before, I don't think he is in contact with AP. I really don't or this could be worse. Maybe he is and I'm just delusional.
But I am trying to focus on me. Why is that so hard? Why do I find myself thinking and thinking about what i should be doing differently to reach him? I am now almost addicted to this and another MLC board. I am reading so much and devouring everything I can. I have so many forum tabs open. It's like I am still in denial that this is happening. Or maybe because I am someone who needs to be connected, I am looking for connection... I have to be patient with myself. At least I am not hounding him or checking his accounts. That's a win, right?
Believe -
You echo what so many of us here have said, thought, and gone through.
I devoured this board. I checked his phone records. I did internet searches to see if I could find out more about his secret life. The first one? Absolutely a life saver. The other two? Only hurted myself. Made me obsessive. Kept the wound gaping. Please take another route that doesn't go by her house. This is an action you take for you.
My journey through this ended up being a faith journey. And I have found joy and peace. My story is not over, but I am l joyful and peacful.
Ask you whys. Scream out loud. Cry, a lot. Be angry. All normal feelings, and part of the process. Don't fight it. Move through it.
The MLCr is searching, and running. Of course he had a connection with his OW. They all do. But they realize at some point that the connection didn't make the hurt go away. My H is still talking about running. Wants me to do it with him! Pack up, move elsewhere, and start fresh. They have to find out on their own that no matter what they do, or where they go, the demons will always be there unless they are released.
Give your H the space and time to do this.
Grace
"When anxiety was great within me, your consolation brought me joy." Psalm 94:19
Hello B
I devoured everything I could as well. We all require a certain amount of understanding to be able to let go.
Thing is, understand and acceptance, those answers come best when you are calm. Sit quietly and the answers will present themselves. Dig for patience. You’ve got time.
Why do I find myself thinking and thinking about what i should be doing differently to reach him?
Be patient.
You need to focus on you, and give him space and time. By all means you can talk to him, just no pressure. Let him lead things.
H has to walk his path. This is his crisis and his journey. Do not manipulate it.
There really isn’t anything you can do to speed him up. Most efforts by the LBS prolongs things; at best our efforts are neutral.
Manipulating the MLCer’s path is troublesome. When we start to manipulate we start taking ownership and responsibility of the MLCer’s path and the crisis’s outcome. You do not want that! The less steering you, the less regrets you will have.
If you actually do interrupt his journey, he will resume it later and it will be much worse the second time around. They need to get through this crisis, on their time.
None of us know what our MLCer spouse is struggling with, so we do not know if our efforts are working for or against their progress. A seemly good intentioned action could push him right out the door. Let him lead his journey.
When he talks to you, validate.
At times he will push your buttons, do not get caught up in an argument, no matter how stupid or obviously wrong what he says is. You’ve seen his anger and contempt. He is projecting upon you. He will look to get you to argue with him, to justify his feelings, so he can blame you. Don’t take the bait. Dig for patience.
(My XW blamed me for the furnace vent blowing air on her. Among a great many other things. SMH.
)
Focus on you. Very wise advice. It helps with finding detachment. It also let’s H be on his own, and hopeful realize the Believe6 isn’t interacting and yet he is still angry, sad, upset, etc. - so it can’t be her fault. Then maybe, just maybe, he looks elsewhere... maybe even inside himself.
Only H can change his direction. Only H can control H.
Nothing you do matters and everything you do does.
That paradoxical statement is how one reaches a MLCer. We focus on ourselves and our kids. We heal. Let go. Find our beliefs. Strengthen and alter them. Choose better instead of bitter. Live in the light.
You reach H by becoming the best version of you, you can be. You become a lighthouse.
And you do it all for you.
That last statement is the big one. Everything you do is for you. You are the most important person in this equation. Be a woman only a fool would leave. The rest is up to H.
DnJ
Grace, thank you so much.
_______
I found another thread from Kansha... she talks about letting God. I was struggling with what that meant and for some reason, I found that thread from back in 12/20/02...
She says, "This morning I started thinking about H as I was driving back from dropping the kids at school and immediately I said, "No, this is not for me to solve, I've turned it over to God, thank you, God." and that was it.
A feeling of lightness came over me and my mind went on to think of more pleasant things.
I'm not even checking to see how God is doing. It doesn't even sound right to "check on God's work" when you hear it but, I know I'm always looking to see if God is working on it. This would be enough to make any human give up. But, God loves me and understands my impatience. But, I love God so I will not continue to be unloving by looking over His shoulder, so to speak.
Letting Go is always a good idea. I forgot that when I had something to "work" on.
I know my H needs lots of space, still . I do get tired and impatient, I know but, this is not in my time and I know I am perfectly welcome to give up at any time. I will know that I have done everything I can (well that's the point, isn't it?)to save my marriage, to make it satisfying. But, I have not trusted God by continuing to let go.
This is a lesson to learn many times over. Each time I get better and better at it."
_______
You are right... he has to see for himself that no matter what he does... push me away, draw me close... talk or not... his demons are inside his mind and heart. I can not do this for him. Heck, we can't do anyone's path... not even our beloved kids for them. I am a professional corp Trainer. I know this stuff. I know that I can share concepts, ideas and even great tactics, but people must do the work.
I must also stop being the "fixer" with him. He is not someone who needs or wants my fixing. I started doing that a long time ago. I don't know when I went from being his partner and his friend to being a "fixer." I believe I fluctuated between those roles. And it must have driven him nuts. I know it changed me.
I am not going to be her. Whether or not he comes back to me, I will not be this "fixer' even if I do it as a job. I need to be me again. The woman who loves life. Who loves people. Who cares and reaches out. Who listens. Who learns. Who is curious about life and others and is willing to admit she doesn't know everything... who is willing to be flexible. Happy. Loving. Open. Kind. Non-judgemental. Compassionate..... The woman I was when he first met me only better, only deeper.
Thanks for the reminder, Grace!
DnJ, you made me cry... so many wise, wise things you say. Both to me and so many others. I've read so many of your posts. And yes, you are right. I have not believed I could be patient. I use "believe" because it's a word that chose a few years back to guide my year. I was hoping that when things got rough, I could use faith to help me. But I have struggled with faith- real faith- my entire life. I am a control freak. I do want to do things and make this work out.
I prayed for God to show me how to have faith a couple of years ago... and now this? I guess the joke (or the growth) is all on me.
You are also right about not interrupting his journey. He needs to do this in his own time in his own way. He told me this morning he thinks I'm lost about what I want. I think he meant about us. I told him I'm not lost about that. I'm lost about what to do about work. But I'm not lost with what I want my life to be and who I want to be.
I hope that didn't seem to invalidate him. I let him know that I get how hard, confusing and scary this time is. Because he's shared in the past that's how he feels. I hope that at least did validate things.
I will leave him be and stop looking like I am checking in or trying to see how he's doing. I will keep doing what i can for my kids. And I will come here and also connect with my other friends.
It's time I stopped looking at him and started looking at me and those others who could use my love and support right now. Thank you, DnJ. You are a light and an inspiration.
Good Morning B6
I think a lot of us are control freaks.
Faith and checking on God’s work - that was a great way of putting it.
Both of these intermingle. I found my willing surrender to God brought peace. I focus on what I can control and do something about. Abilities to control and focus are positives and admirable, we just need to point them in the right direction.
This goes along with so many of us being “fixers”. Another admirable and positive trait. Point that energy and drive inward and “fix” to your heart’s content.
Heart’s content
. I wasn’t thinking of that until I typed it. Our inner work is a passion, a love of ourselves.
I love what you wrote about forgiveness on Grace’s thread. Very well said.
Good luck on your upcoming virtual interview. Is it just voice or video as well?
If you showed up in a bathrobe and bunny slippers it would make quite an impression. Lol. Hey, I’m working from home and I thought it was just a conference call. Hahaha.
Speaking of which, I do not work from home and need to get to work.
The roads are less congested, and the office is deserted. In a strange way, the world around here looks so peaceful. Funny to see so plainly, we, society, cause the stresses of modern life. It’s such a weird backdrop for the present health concerns.
Have a great day.
DnJ
Good morning, DnJ! I guess you are probably overseas. I am in USA. Yes, the streets are much less crowded now. I hope your work is safe wherever you have to go.
I appreciate you continuing to check-in. It was strange today. My spouse works from home too and since we are all "sheltering in place," I was able to hear him laughing with our D and later chatting with our S. He never really distanced himself from them. I'm glad of that, but then my mind wonders if he is doing these things even more so that if he asks for a D, he can file for full custody. Even though our kids are older, he'd want full custody of our D.
He is a great dad. Always has been and I know he would make sure our D is first, but if he keeps going down this MLC rabbit hole, I can't allow that. I will fight for my kids. At first, I thought I would let him be with them and I'd take the secondary role, but I just can't.
They are my kids too and I want to be there every day. I want to see them and share whatever small victories or big challenges they face. I am not as fun or as funny... although I used to be. But I am their mom and I want to have a say in how they deal with life. I believe my D needs her mother's guidance and love. It's not as light, I know. I am working on that. I used to be lighter and freer.
I have lost a lot of that. I think I was going through my own midlife transition in the past few years. Looking back, I can see how some of the criticisms my H and kids were saying about how my tone wasn't very welcoming or the arguments I'd raise just pushed them away. I didn't have an affair and I didn't spend lots of money, but I do think I'd gone down some kind of rabbit hole myself.
I let myself go both physically and emotionally. Like I just couldn't face myself or my life. Then I got laid off and it got worse. I would watch mindless shows for hours. I wouldn't really go to the gym. I'd eat junk like a teenager and really not pay too much attention to anyone. I tried, but I found myself withdrawing and feeling sorry for myself that I had to find another job "again."
Or it could just be common anxiety and depression which I've experienced throughout my life. I want to stop that cycle now.
I realized too that I have wanted someone to take care of me. To tell me that they would always be there for me. I thought my H was it. He always had been and then all of a sudden he's confused, he's unhappy. He loves me, but not in love with me. He felt a connection which he can't explain with our friend and had the EA/PA.
Even though he's not in contact with her, I think he's in limerence and coming out of the fog. So he's dealing with that loss. And I am dealing with the death of my old M. Trying to come to grips that it will never be what we promised to each other and what I believe we had.
So I am doing what Heartsblessing said... what you all are saying. I am looking within and trying to see who I want to be now. What I'd do now that I have to focus on me.
I still feel awkward around him. I can't look at him in the eye this morning. After seeing his anger/disgust/disdain yesterday... I just don't want to see that and hurt myself. When I went to the kitchen t his morning to get coffee, I said good morning, but didn't look at him.
Is it supposed to be so awkward? Is it supposed to be so hard to be kind, pleasant, and accepting? I want to treat him like any other roommate. I want to be able to look at him and just be courteous, pleasant and caring. Not like someone I am afraid of... someone who may hurt me with his eyes or uncaring words.
I know, detach... detach... detach. It's hard to pretend I'm ok with all this. I'm not. I don't want to feel like I'm the bane of his existence.
But there it is. I'm not. I'm actually making him the bane of mine by putting that thought in my head. I need to let him be who he is. If he's unhappy with life or even with me, that's his right. I have to look at him with compassion. I have to be with him without judgment, fear or expectation.
Well hmmm... I am wondering now how I can pull that off. If I can do that with him, I can learn to do that with others and wouldn't that be freeing?
Something to think about... Happy Tuesday!
Hello B6
I live in Canada. I’m your neighbour to the north.
I love your post. Seriously. We need to mull things over. Question things. Question ourselves, our lives, our values, our core. You are correct, we find ourselves.
A caution, if I may, do not rush this process. Do no make decisions quickly. Emotions are stirred within you, and it is not a good idea to make decisions based on emotions.
Definitely seek your emotions, and let them wash over you. Listen to them. Feel them.
Then bring in your thoughts on the situation. Not how you feel about something, how you think about it.
With these feelings and thoughts one explores their beliefs. That is where the inner work really happens. Beliefs are slow to change, which make them excellent headings for our lives.
At this time you have a golden opportunity, not available to many people. You have more access to your inner self, to those deep values. Yeah, it hurts; and it’s worth it. Look deep, and fearlessly. Change things you don’t like or value and strengthen that which you do. This takes time.
Eventually thoughts, emotions, and beliefs all move together in the same direction. It is great once they all line up.
I remember times just like what you posted about. That is why I love your post. You are on a very good path, IMHO.
Have faith, you are doing fine.
DnJ
Believe:
I just read through your thread. Sorry of course that you are here and going through this. I lived at home with mine for about 5 years through his early MLC. He would still be here if I hadn't kicked him out at my D's request. Of that I am certain. I think living at home stunted mine (but didn't stop him from having a secret affair for 3 years). My guess is that yours has resumed the affair or begun a new one based on the behaviors you are describing. Pretty typical for these folks and would explain the distancing and disabling the tracker, etc.
You are on the MLC board, so I take it you believe he is having an MLC. So I would encourage you to follow the standard advice in this scenario. No relationship talks period unless he initiates them. Definitely no initiating any kind of affection. You are probably right that he thinks he will leave when you get a job. He has likely talked to an attorney and gotten an idea of his support obligations in both scenarios. But thinking and doing are two different things. Mine actually filed, ignored my attempts to work it out between us, then freaked out when he saw I put on my lawyer hat and was marching to the end. Eventually he begged me multiple times to dismiss. Dismissing was the only quick thing he's done in this process.
Try not to ride his wave and try not to have your mood altered by his behavior. I know that's hard. But getting up your hopes to have them dashed again and again is really bad for you. He's going to do what he's going to do. Take it a day at a time. Do you want to stick around today? Then do. Just do it in a way that doesn't damage you. Doesn't have to be the same answer every day and you are allowed to flip flop as much as you want to.
If it is MLC, you have a long, long road ahead. Yours is doing some talking. That's a good sign. Maybe it is an MLT and maybe he will move through a lot faster. There really is no way to know. Just focus on you and your kids. The better you do, the better they will do. Remember that kids need fun. Hard for kids to see their parents suddenly become people with flaws and needs. A big adjustment for everyone. You will get through it though. You will see lots of evidence of people who find themselves in this process. DnJ hasn't had a reconciliation (yet) but he has certainly become an amazing person and helped his kids lead happy and productive lives in the face of this. It's all we can ask for or control right now.
Own, thank you for your concern and reminding me it's a long road. I don't think he's seeing anyone else because of this Covid thing and the tracker has only been off 1 day. He's only gone to the pool store and was back within 20 min and it takes that long to get there so unless he's doing it while driving, I don't see that happening... at least not right now. But thank you for reminding me to focus on me and my growth which I am doing. We must all take care during these times and find a way to be healthy and safe... mentally and physically. Blessings
DnJ, I read Own's first and just scrolled up to read yours. Canada... yay! It's beautiful up there.
Thank you for your inspiration and your encouragement to go within. I am better tonight. Had a nice dinner and finished monopoly with family. I was able to have a good conversation with H. We are trying to be friendlier, especially with kids in the house and sheltering in place.
My deep core and values? I've always had one mission- be love, give hope, have faith. How I live that out in my life is another thing. I have always tried to figure out how that plays within the roles I have, the work I do, the relationships I forge... including that with myself.
But also how does that look from a character perspective. For example, what does it really mean to be love. How does one give, receive, foster, and expand this love? How does that work in terms of the job you take, the things you do at work, the way you handle situations, etc. It is easy to say you love someone, but what about tough love. What about having to say no or even saying yes?
I can go deep with this stuff and often have. Maybe I should have been a philosopher. I also consider myself a spiritual seeker. I look for ways that can deepen and grow so that I won't be coming back here for another lifetime. I know this is the biggest forgiveness lesson I have to learn. He's just to last piece. I've had to learn to forgive so many in my life and have had to ask them to forgive me too.
We don't live up to others' ideals or expectations all the time. Often because they don't share what they expect or if they do, it's not in our wheel house to live up to it... So yeah, I have a lot to think about and am working on who this "me" is that is emerging. She's a combination of the old me, but with more wisdom, more courage, more strength, and even a healthy does of fear... not the kind that debilitates, but the kind that keeps you from taking unnecessary risks.
Thanks for reminding me to keep looking within. To be fearless. To face myself and this life that I find myself in. I know it will be worth it. Regardless of the ultimate outcome of my relationship.
I still have hope for the outcome though... the one where I am better, he is better... and we get that forever we promised... only this forever is actually real.
Journal
Had an interview today. I think it would be the final one. It went well. I can see myself working with these women and for this org. I am excited, but trying not to get too far ahead of myself. My H and I are trying to be friends. He is telling me about some personal goals he is working on. I am sharing what happened with the interview. We talked last night and that is one thing we had agreed long ago we would do.
I will detach from the negative things he says or does. I won't however change who I am in order to just db. I am learning to stop worrying that he went to Costco (one of the excuses he used before to meet his AP). I am just doing what I do.
Right now, I came here to distract myself and to focus on me. Next time, I will choose another method to distract myself. I still feel like my heart is squeezing most of the time. Like I can't catch a full breath. But what can I do? I can't force him to stay. I can't force him to promise me he loves me and only me. I know he loves me as a person, but the love I really want he can't give me.
I am coming to believe he couldn't give it to anyone. He doesn't have it for himself so how can he give it to anyone. He's so very lost. I can only do what DnJ reminded me.... glow so bright in who I am and who I intend to be that I will be the lighthouse. Not just for him, but for my kids, my extended family... and my friends.
We all need to find a way to be the light for others.
I hope that since my H will be finally finishing college, he will start to feel a bit more in control of his future. That is one of his biggest regrets. He has a great job (although one he hates) that pays well and he's been doing for almost 20 years. That's part of the problem. He is embarrassed that he is going to be doing the same job without being promoted or anything for the past 20 years. He was offered multiple promotions, but for various reasons and because it would mean he couldn't be available for our kids, he turned them down.
I think he feels like a failure. And although we both talked about how we feel like our lives didn't turn out how we planned when we were young, we both said we were grateful for the life we built. Even with all my layoffs and even with him staying at the same job. Somehow though, after his dad passed, it all seemed like his life wasn't what he wanted.
He told me a while back that his dad seemed happy being alone and free. That the OW was just a girlfriend for the past 18 years and his dad could be with her or not and seemed happy. He can't know that for sure and he wishes he could ask, but since he's gone, he can't. My theory is he is trying to understand his dad by following in his footsteps.
The difference may be, that H's dad didn't finish college. H always wanted to. I am hoping that my figuring out these things he wants and giving him the space to have what he wants, he will figure out that he doesn't have to get rid of me or the family we have.
I am trying to remember what to be grateful for. I am grateful right now we are all healthy. I am grateful for the wonderful conversation during my interview. I am grateful that my kids are safe and we love each other. I am grateful for the faith I am gaining and learning to lean on. I am grateful for the family I have. I am grateful for my friends who are so different and varied and interesting. I am grateful for this board where I can come and share and get ideas. I am grateful for our healthcare workers and all other front-liners who are out there taking care of our sick society. I am grateful for love in all its forms.
I am also digging deep as DnJ said. I am leaning into these terrible, scary, liberating feelings. I realize as I look hard at the person I had become in this marriage, I can see where I was controlling. Where I kept using "push" behaviors with him. Especially the past couple of years. I also realize that when I started pre-menopause a few years back, it started to change me. I took herbs to help but didn't deal with the other emotions that were getting out of control. I should have addressed them. I should have gotten help. Now I have no choice, but to look at all of me and stop just existing in my life, but living it. Looking at the behaviors that I don't like and show that I am a weak, needy, desperate woman... rather become the strong, compassionate, powerful soul I have always been and have just lost somewhere.
So now I start to work on each and everything that I need to change. Not for him. But for me. Because I am worth it and the people in my life are worth it. He is just one person, although for the longest time the most important one, in my life... I am ready to become #1 to myself and the rest will line up after that (or maybe after God).
Blessings all!
Hello B6
I’m happy to hear you so positive about the interview. Fingers crossed over here. Wishing you good luck!
Sorry for straying here:
DnJ hasn't had a reconciliation (yet)...
Thanks Own. Very kind words. (yet) - amazing how much such a little word can say.
B6, your assessment of H’s probable emotional state regarding his father’s death and his 20 year career does seem a likely candidate for his current path. Everyone looks back upon their life’s work and is either proud of their accomplishments or regret the time they feel they’ve wasted.
Your H needs time and space to reconcile his feelings and his life. Time to see that he put family first which necessitated some career limiting choices. Unfortunately, it does sound likely that he has some latent issue with his Dad, and he isn’t going to get to hash it out with the man. H is going to have to work through whatever it is on his own. That is going to take time.
I like your passion of digging in to that inner work. Take it slow and do it well. Get the complete view, the inventory of yourself, before making a bunch of changes. Chances are, and we all do it, you are seeing more of the negatives than the positives right now. And by the way, we all change as we get older. A woman of fifty isn’t going to be the same as she was when she was 30; and she shouldn’t be.
We
all look back at our life’s accomplishments and regrets, mull them over, and rejoice or suffer into our golden years. Remember, we LBS are fortunate in this incredible opportunity. We have the gift of time. We get a preview of our life’s choices and can use our time wisely.
So now I start to work on each and everything that I need want to change.
Want to change, instead of need to change.
Need implies outside influence.
Want is from you. Want is something you “want”, you desire. It has a much greater probability of success. Actually, if you want it, you will make it happen.
Your mind is always listening. The words you use, accumulate within and have a significant affect upon your mental and emotional state.
For example can, can’t, will, won’t. A lot of times we say - I can’t do it. When we really mean - I won’t do it. Can’t means impossible and your mind will make it so. Won’t - it’s accurate and leaves you room to change your mind. There are very few things that “can’t” applies to. DnJ can’t get pregnant, is one of those valid ones.
Can and will are strong positives. Do and try are another pair I like to speak about. I will do this. Vs. I will try. Try predisposed us to fail. We, at the very utterance of “try” have already made failure a valid and real option or outcome. Of course we do fail even with the best intentions and using cans and dos, and that’s fine. I just find that “trying” leads to more unsuccessful outcomes than doing. Mental assertiveness, do it.
And yeah, we do tend to put ourselves lower on our list than we should. Most parents put their children first, then their spouse, family, etc. we show up somewhere in the list but it is hard to find us. No wonder when something like MLC, divorce, or just growing older and kids leaving we suddenly find ourselves sitting across from someone we don’t know.
In my opinion, God is first, then us, spouse, kids, parents, siblings, family/friends, and so on... gets more and more blurry the further we go down the list. This of course doesn’t mean you always get your way; it is more emotional importance. And yeah there will be times we put ourselves last for the good of our kids, but just think how many times we did that during our marriages - continually put others first. Oh well, lesson learnt I suppose. Using that gift of time.
Have a great day.
And go outside a little. Get some sun. You are allowed in your yard.
Will talk soon.
DnJ
DnJ, I have to say this, then I will reply to the rest...
You wrote, "I will do this. Vs. I will try."
Yoda says, Do. There is no Try.
DnJ, Thank you for your thoughtful and philosophical approach to things. One of my brothers is also a deep thinker like you (and me) tend to be and it helps. I have been doing the "inner work" for most of my life. I tend to think, probably way too much. Grew up in a house of people who were spiritual/psychological thinkers and feelers. It may be why I am actually excited to be "digging" in here. I did at lot right after BD. I found out a lot about myself. The biggest gift was I fell in love with myself for the first time in my short 50 years on the planet.
I actually looked into my eyes while driving. I was glancing in the rear view and saw my eyes and for the first time, I saw my own spirit. And I said out loud, "There you are." And then, "Oh, I love you X. I really love you." And I fell in LOVE with myself. I actually knew that no matter what, underneath the negative concepts, thoughts, feelings... the REAL me was perfect, complete, and lovable. Totally, undeniably LOVEABLE.
Of course, then life gets in the way and my negative inner talk wants proof that I am. I look at others to tell me that I am worthy. I am enough. I am loveable. But when I take the time to go to the mirror, like Louis Hay says, and look directly in my own eyes, I can't help but see ME again. And I say, "God, I really love you. You are perfect, just as you are." And I completely feel it. I get chills and goosebumps.
Just like when I first fell in love with H. And often, I still get those same chills and goosebumps when I look at him. I try not to let that distract me from learning to detach. I can still love him and know that right now, that can't and won't be enough.
No, I need to do what you say and put God, me, him, kids, etc... For now, it has to be me. The kids are getting old enough to start to find their own way and their own path. I sometimes throughout the day remind myself to check on them and to really listen to what they need. If it seems like they are fine, then I let them be.
Once again, we are all in our own corners until it's time to watch our favorite family reality show. Then we'll gather, do that and bond. We all need normalcy in this whole thing.
I also took time to practice the ukelele as I shared on your thread. I am enjoying being here and offering a little encouragement and peace. I am reading Hearts Blessings' website articles. I wish I could find more of her archives stuff. She is wise and connected to God in a powerful way. I am not trying to ensure my story ends like hers (or maybe I am have to think on that), but it help to read and educate myself.
For some reason, i am feeling peaceful and happy right now. Trying not to analyze it too much. Has nothing to do with H. It has to do with me. I think my EFT tapping earlier and doing some GAL stuff is really helping.
I can see me again. I can feel ME again. I like it. Have a blessed night. Thanks again, DnJ. It's great to have someone who is deep force me to go deeper into me... and at a pace that makes sense. Blessings
Journal
Had a chat with a good friend. Tried to explain about MLC and what I am trying to do. She is very opinionated and told me I should leave the article with the 6 phases of MLC for H to read so he could start getting a grip. She was adamant that he should see a therapist and why isn't he seeing a therapist.
I had to actually tell her to "stop" and "listen" and that what she was saying is counter productive to what I am trying to do to get through this time. It's almost like in CanBird's thread where she wonders who to "announce" to. I did like DnJ and told the people I thought would help me.
Now, not to say that my friend isn't on my side. She is actually up in arms about this whole thing. Apparently, a neighbor (not too close but in her area) was an MLC and shot and killed his wife, then son, daughter ran out to a neighbor. Before the cops came man shot himself. She says to watch for signs if that's my H.
So paranoid much? Yes, I think sheltering in place. The fact that she thinks she is in MLC herself... I don't know. Maybe the wrong person to have brought this up with today.
On the other side, I am really proud of how detached I am becoming. H had to do stress test for heart. He was gone almost 3 hours. I know it takes only 10 to 15 min to get to the dr. Maybe another 10 to fill out paperwork. So why gone so long? He is in good shape so getting his heartrate up took only 15 min, then the sonogram. So hmmmm....
Anyway, I find that although I had these thoughts and am tempted to find a way to check his phone for messages, etc. I am actually peaceful. I am not going to do that. I am living my life. He does seem really pleasant the last couple of days.
I will say, it's most likely because he got into college he wanted and now we are working out the finances. This is a life goal of his that he was resentful he put off for so long. I had encouraged him for years to do it,but he always had an excuse. Just like he's always had an excuse as to why he couldn't change jobs so he could be more social.... He thinks he did all that to put the family first. We would have figured it out.
But he never wanted to so now it's somehow my fault. He doesn't say that, but it's implied when he's told our MC that he's put me first for all these years. I told him I felt I was putting him and the kids first. He has some choice examples as do I, but in no way do I think either of us can claim we weren't both trying to do what's best for the entire family.
What's strange, and what I keep coming back to, is I know all MLC journeys are different. HeartsBlessing and others remind us of that. We can't judge any of them as the same. I just wonder if we aren't sure of the stage they are in, exactly what should we be doing.
Right now, I am letting go and letting God. I am acting like a good roommate and caring person. If he wants to talk, I am pleasant, interested, and curious. I don't chase him. I don't exhibit push or controlling behavior (at least not as much anymore... I don't think I am anyway). I am getting a life. Even if it's just practicing the ukelele, watching shows I like, going on forums like this, and checking on the kids.
So for now, I am ok. We will all go for a walk later as a family. My kids and our dog love that. Why not do things for the kids when you can? As long as we are both trying to be pleasant, that should be the most important thing. Peace during this shelter in place time is paramount. We all have to get through this with our minds, hearts and bodies intact, right?
Hope you are all having a blessed day!
Jounral-- pulled this from Amy's thread Babe recommend I read (or maybe one of the links from that thread)
_________________________________________
Re: Why the MLCer is so distant [Re: Imageer]#98410803/22/07 04:12 AM
AmyC Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,896
Virginia
Originally Posted By: Imageer
Amy, How do I leave the door open for my W to return but not actually say anything to her about it?
You decide to.
You must know, though, if you decide that come hell or high water, you are going to stand for your marriage, rest assured that making that decision will be the last simple thing you do.
Hell and high water will both come.
They'll come often and sometimes they'll even come together before you have time to take a deep breath.
As long as you know that and still decide to stand, it is possible to do it quietly, effectively and with grace.
It will take more than you know you have within yourself.
You will have to dig deep and eat a lot of crow.
There is plenty of room here at the table.
;\)
Make a list.
Write down your reasons to stand.
You know the basic ones; kids, vows before God, etc....
Now look closer at the very heart of your relationship.
There you will find the reasons that will enable you to endure.
___________________________________
I did something I said I wouldn't do. I went to check the car. That's where he had sex with the AP. The back of our car like teenagers. Anyway, I found a strand of hair. Now, it's the similar in color to mine and my daughters only shorter so I am thinking those 3 hours away were put to other use than the stress test.
Funny, although my heart hurts, it isn't pounding like it has been in the past when I think of him cheating. Am I finally learning detachment at least emotionally?
When I came back in the house from "dropping off the recycling," an excuse to check the car, H asked where I went. I told him I went to drop the paper recycling from our room. I also told him I was tempted to go for a ride. I said it pleasantly. He said he understood. Then he went back to his office. He was supposedly getting vitamins, although I think he heard the front door open and came to check on me.
So either he is feeling guilty or he's trying to hide something. Either way, I know it doesn't help to keep pushing at him. Trying to get him to talk or even to get him to feel anything.
At this point. I just want to get through this time with my own dignity and my own sanity intact. Maybe others, my family/friends who know, will think I'm nuts for sticking around. I am going to minimize what I say to them going forward.
I think I need to figure out for myself why I want to stand... besides my kids and my vows.
Here's what I know and remember.... this man, he brought me out of a dark time as my best friend, long before we ever became lovers. He's always been a rock for me and many others. In the past, he never really cared all that much what others thought. He did what he thought was right and it was always done with honor, integrity, commitment, and compassion. He works hard, even when it's not work he loves. He's the best dad I could have ever hoped for. One of the reasons I was attracted to him so much is because I knew he would be the dad I wished I had.... someone lighthearted, loving, stable, not too over the top emotionally, never got angry (except lately and only at me), fun to be around, interesting, adventurous... and so many other adjectives that are great.
I stand because he was my very best friend for almost 25 years now. We've been married 21.5 years and it's only been the last 8 months that I've seen the worst of him.
There may have been fights, we may have disagreed, but it was always me pushing. Always me saying we should see someone. We should decide if we should be together. Now I know that maybe I am the one who was also going through my own transition because I've had early menopause for the past 4 years.
I stand because to me unconditional love is real. It matters. I said I will love him no matter what and I meant it. I will stand whether or not the relationship survives. I will stand for ME. I will stand for LOVE because I don't know how not to stand.
But I will also do it honorably. I will do it knowing that I may have to face "Hell and Highwater" at the same time like Amy says. I will do it, because I don't think I can go to God... to the end of this life knowing I did anything less.
Maybe I'll change my mind. Maybe the pain will get to be too much and I will ask God to release me from this vow... but I hope not. I hope I have the courage, the faith, and the will to keep standing... No matter what.
Good Morning B6
You friend’s reaction is pretty standard and normal. Our friends don’t want to us hurting, especially for a long time. They want to help, they want to fix; just like we were before seeing this new hidden world. It takes time to explain the seemly counterintuitive reality to them, and time for them to understand and accept it. Just look at how long it takes the LBS to find understanding and acceptance, and we live this. A friend, no matter how good, isn’t walking in your shoes. It makes perfect sense they won’t understand, at first. We didn’t understand at first either.
Do not leave articles out for H. MLCers do not want to be diagnosed. To them, there is nothing wrong with them. You, the kids, the dog, that bird outside the window, the furnace vent (
) - they are too blame. MLCers can’t, and I mean can’t not won’t, they can’t be at fault. They will expend incredible energies into maintaining their fantasy. They have too. In the face of rationalities and reality, their apparent stubbornness looks crazy. And pretty much is. Crazy, not insane, just irrational.
Your friend’s warning, paranoid or not, is another typical reaction. People do remember sensational events, more so than the calm and nicely ending ones. A couple that gets back together doesn’t make the news headlines, but a murderous rampage does. The percentage of irrational people that turn violent is really small. Most are harmless and very misunderstood.
What's strange, and what I keep coming back to, is I know all MLC journeys are different. HeartsBlessing and others remind us of that. We can't judge any of them as the same. I just wonder if we aren't sure of the stage they are in, exactly what should we be doing.
Yes, every MLCer has different upbringings and different traumas, different underlying issues and demons. And yet they do follow a strangely similar path and script.
The stages are not carved in stone, and do not have well defined delimitations between each. “Running” is the behaviour the LBS sees first. The bomb drop, it is a running behaviour. Running lasts for a good long time; it lasts as long as it takes.
Running, withdrawal, depression, they can bounce into and out of each - just like the stages of grief. The time estimates that are given here and there are rough guidelines at best. Some MLCers, never come out of running. I personally believe most do progress through their own stages and grief, eventually accepting they were not at fault for whatever traumatic experience emotionally stunted them, and they do grow up.
Exactly what should we be doing? Focus on you and the kids. Not manipulating. Healing and growing. Living your beliefs.
MLC lasts as long as it lasts. How long are you going to last, outlast?
We have to find our peace with this. A way to live with, and for, ourselves. We can outlast this, but not if one pays too much attention to the behaviours of their spouse. We get very little, some of us none, attention from our spouse. We find our way. Maybe the MLCer awakens, does their inner work, and reaches out toward us. Maybe we are still around. Maybe not.
Those particular answers are a long way down your road. They’re a long way down my road too. Letting go requires understanding and strength. I see both within you, and movement towards that goal.
Stay strong and keep moving forward.
DnJ
Believe,
I agree 100% w/what DnJ has posted. Your friends and family do not want to see you hurt or in pain, but trying to explain MLC is way over their heads unless they have walked a mile in your shoes. DO NOT give any info about MLC to your h. They do not want us to tell them that there is something wrong w/them. In their minds, they know that something is off, but do not want to admit it to anyone. They think that they are fine.
My advice is to talk to one or two friends and leave the others on the outside of the situation. We all need at least one person IRL to talk to about what is going on.
Also, the stages are not linear, they are grieving for what they think that they have lost in life. We are grieving for the loss of a marriage that has now died. Just as the stages of grief are expressed by all who have lost something near and dear to us, the same happens w/MLC. The stages are very similar...but again not linear.
Jim Conway who wrote about his own MLC many, many years ago talked about the stages. His wife also wrote a book about Jim's crisis and how she coped during that time. You may want to check their books out. Try to remember, that the stages are just a guideline and are not set in stone, nor is the timeline that HeartsBlessing has indicated in her postings of many years ago. Since her postings, we have learned much more about MLC and yes, there is even one more stage, which I have mentioned over the years that isn't recognized by many unless the reconciliation is taking place...but that's down the line for now...
Bottom line, observe, listen, validate where you can. Keep your discussions w/others outside your immediate family to a minimum and take what they say w/a grain of salt...they only want what is best for you.
For now, you need to keep the focus on you and your family, watch your finances, i.e., bank statements and credit cards. Dig deeper for patience and understand that this is not a journey that you were suppose to go on w/him. This is a journey that only he can make and complete in order to come out the other side a whole, mature, settled man. Your journey is to rediscover the woman you were when you met him. It is a time to do those things that you've put off doing because you were too busy. Make that list, check it off when the item is completed and know that no matter what happens, you will and are a success.
Keep that focus on you. Allow God to work on you h. Remember...you didn't break him, therefore, you can't fix him.
DnJ and Job,
Thank you for responding. It helps to see vets who've been here and, for some, a little while, support us who are just starting this long Journey.
Exactly what should we be doing? Focus on you and the kids. Not manipulating. Healing and growing. Living your beliefs.
MLC lasts as long as it lasts. How long are you going to last, outlast?
We have to find our peace with this. A way to live with, and for, ourselves. We can outlast this, but not if one pays too much attention to the behaviours of their spouse. We get very little, some of us none, attention from our spouse. We find our way. Maybe the MLCer awakens, does their inner work, and reaches out toward us. Maybe we are still around. Maybe not.
Those particular answers are a long way down your road. They’re a long way down my road too. Letting go requires understanding and strength. I see both within you, and movement towards that goal.
Stay strong and keep moving forward.
DnJ
I hear what you are saying. I did the total wrong thing last night. I was trying to be supportive about a change happening for him and I ended up arguing with him. I realized last night just how much I have been doing what he says. Trying to get him to see my side and agree that although I made some mistakes so did he. I don't know why I keep trying to defend myself.
He's hurting. He's so lost. He's so trapped and I trap him more by trying to get him to see "reason." And it's only my reason. And truth be told, I know better. This is a gift. We had a good marriage. Better than most, but it wasn't enough for him and in the long run, all it takes is one. If it's not enough for one of us, it can't be enough for either.
Bottom line, observe, listen, validate where you can. Keep your discussions w/others outside your immediate family to a minimum and take what they say w/a grain of salt...they only want what is best for you.
Job
D@mn. I wish I would have done what I kept saying I would do and what you mention, Job.
Listen listen listen. Validate validate validate.
Instead I got defensive. I wanted him to remember how amazing our life has been. And to me, to all outsiders, it was. Maybe when he comes out, he'll remember it too. One reason he says he hasn't outright left already is because he doesn't want to make a mistake. He knows we've had some good years and he doesn't want to look back and have left when he should have stayed. Then in the next breath he'll say he wants to be a hermit... to run away and live on his own.
It's heartbreaking to know just how lost he is. When I look back at the times I felt so depressed, anxious, and lost, I too wanted to run away. I didn't but I think that's because I knew I had work to do here. I'd done enough spiritual work over my life to know that you can't keep running away from situations. The universe (God) finds a way to put another person or situation in your path until you learn your lesson.
I realize now, my lesson of being judgmental, manipulative, needy, controlling, and selfish needs to be addressed. I know it stems from abandonment (not that my parents left me, just that my dad was never around and always working and my mom suffered from depression herself- long story) and not feeling good enough/lovable enough. So I try to force people (or manipulate) to stay with me.
I have been listening to Byron Katie. She has a really great video on Youtube and it opened my eyes to the "story" I am projecting on not just to H, but to others in my life. She says when we are in pain, we need to question the thoughts we are believing. When I face my own pain/fears, I totally see what she means. But then my inner anxiety and fear gets a hold and I can't stay in that space where I know God resides... that space of peace.
She also says that only "good" is happening to us. I've also heard numerous spiritual and thought leaders say, we need to believe we live in a friendly universe. Or that we need to remember that God is working for us and never against us.
I know that's to mean, even these things we label as "bad" are meant for our good. It's mean to shape us. To heal us. To make sure we "never pass this way again." That we are ready for our full spiritual awakening.
I believe that. I have a good friend who I finally shared (not the whole story, but about the trouble in the m) and she is grounding me. She is reminding me to keep trusting in the process. To know that my spiritual light is shining brighter and as I let the darkness, these shadow sides of me, come to light and learn to change them... then more light will be able to shine through me.
It is so hard. It is hard to let go of the story and the illusion and even the myth that my marriage should have never been rocked like it has been. I refuse (yet) to believe it is destroyed. I know it is forever altered. It's like someone who loses a limb and has to figure out how to function now without it. Often, the go on to live fuller, brighter, more empowered lives.
The worst thing that I could ever imagine happening in my marriage has happened. It is still happening. I can't run away from it. I can't hide from it.
I must ask for forgiveness for my MLtransition, while living as an LBS. My H won't be able to forgive or understand my request for forgiveness. But at least I am stating my truth and accepting whatever he is able to understand.
On top of that, I am going to learn and I will master the art of really listening. Really validating. Accepting that I need to shift my perception if I am not seeing him for who he is, rather than my projection.
Gosh it's a lot. It's hard. So hard.... but I don't want the last 30 or 40 years of my life to be me hiding my head in the sand because I wasn't strong enough to get through this self inventory and metamorphosis.
Blessings
Good Morning B6
Be gentle with yourself, it’s hard trying not to defend.
A common saying is that every situation has two sides and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Actually every situation has two truths, many truths. There is no middle, just viewpoints, each of them as valid as the next. Our perceptions create and shape our reality, our truth.
Believe your truth, and live your truth. Challenge your beliefs and truth as well; it’s a way to grow. See the other sides, and the validity for those that hold them. You can discuss viewpoints; you can’t change their’s. They can, if they choose. You can, if you choose. There is nothing to defend, since you’re not fighting.
I must ask for forgiveness for my MLtransition, while living as an LBS. My H won't be able to forgive or understand my request for forgiveness. But at least I am stating my truth and accepting whatever he is able to understand.
Asking for forgiveness, I realize holds an appeal. It feels right. Do not make decisions or act on feelings. Feelings change and are not good indicators or long term headings.
Yes, asking for forgiveness is ok. However, when. And from whom.
As you said, H won’t be able to forgive you or even understand or empathize. I suggest waiting, not asking H anytime soon.
The person of whom you are seeking forgiveness from, is you. Work on you. Forgive yourself. I know just how tall an order that is. Absolution doesn’t come from an external source. It is an internal journey.
Gosh it's a lot. It's hard. So hard.... but I don't want the last 30 or 40 years of my life to be me hiding my head in the sand because I wasn't strong enough to get through this self inventory and metamorphosis.
Yes it’s hard. And you can so do this.
DnJ
Believe,
There is a simple exercise that I had to learn to become a better listener. I would listen to a person and then repeat back to them what they said and ask if that was correct, especially when it came to something of importance. I would simply state that I wanted to make sure that I heard what they said correctly. It may be something you might want to try w/your spouse when they are being chatty or or venting. At least he would now that you were listening and wanting to be sure you heard him correctly.
Thank you, DnJ and Job! I thought I was doing so well today. Gave him.plenty of space.We both had to do work in the yard. I did the yard work while the kids and H we were relaxing doing their think. Then I worked on laundry and went back out later when he was coming back in. Later we were both heading out to take night shots on our own. When I was getting ready, he told me to be careful because both the kids wanted to come with me. I said , yes of course. He said in a mean voice, why are you saying it like that? I was so confused. Like what, I said. He said, you know, fake.
He's accused me of being fake recently. I am not being fake or robotic. I am trying to be kinder and sweeter in my tone. In the past, he and the kids tell me my tone seemed condescending or sarcastic. Even though my H can be sarcastic. Os anyway, I got really mad. I couldn't help it. I told him why did he assume I was being fake. I'm not being fake. Trying to be better at how I talk. I told him he had to quit assuming things like that. Just because I am trying to be better.
Anyway, still trying to calm down. out now and hoping this time will help me balance again so I can try to listen and validate. It's tough and [censored]. Especially when my crazy mind thinks he may have used this time to see th ow. Even though he sworn that he isnt contacting, speaking or seeing any other women. If he is, its quick which is possible. I keep thinking what does it matter if he is. I must focus on me. But it still hurts. These thoughts torture me. I want peace. No matter what the truth is. I want peace.
Thanks for reading and the prayers and support.
Try to remember this...any changes that we make, they will question them. They will do everything in their power to get us to revert back to the way that we were behaving pre-crisis. So, if you have made changes, stick to them, do not waiver one bit. Eventually, he will come to realize that you are moving forward and the changes that you are and have made will be permanent.
Keep the focus on you and your children and watch your finances! Dig deeper for patience.
Thanks, Job! I am cycling myself.
Anger, pain, humiliation.... I am tempted to confront him about my fears or assumptions that he is still seeing the OW. I know you all say he will lie. That this will only prove to him that he should keep seeing her because undoubtedly we will fight. Just typing this, I realize God answers my prayers. I asked the Holy Spirit to guide my words and thoughts. Being on this and another forum is helping me keep my balance.
A feeling of peace just came over me. I see now. I am not meant to know or care about his journey. He will do what he will do. I must do what I must. Which is to focus on me, my growth, my center and to leave him to his own.
Funny but i have been avoiding him. He is trying to be kinder, more steady this morning. I am standoffish and not engaging. I am learning this detachment thing. Maybe him pushing me last night is helping me. Do he wants to think I'm fake to make himself feel better? So be it. I will keep working on my tone. On being happy and positive and pleasant. No more of my old monstering myself either. I am not her. I can choose to let go of my feelings that I dont want.
I am my own best friend. Thank you all for the foundation and the balance. Whew...
Hi B. Detaching can be difficult. I still struggle. I'm sure you've read Sandi's Rules...(Think it's called that). Review those; write your own version. Review it often. A few things that helped me was to think of mlc as a sickness/addiction. This person I care for made these choices to take this journey. They need to figure it out. It has nothing to do with me. Step back & let the journey happen.
When you start truly letting go, you'll feel it. It's letting go of a situation that you did not create. When you do this, your mind becomes free. The wheels stop turning so fast. You begin to focus more on YOU.
YOU come first. Your kids need you too of course. Every morning start the day with a word or mantra that sets the tone for a positive life. You might have set backs. STOP and refocus. I am strong, I matter, I will get through this, I'm not alone, I will be okay. Whatever gets you to reset your focus.
You CAN do this
Journal
OMG. I totally screwed up. I feel like I want to throw up. So I decided earlier that I wouldn't say anything to H about my suspicions about the ow. But I got to talking to a girlfriend who was checking in and I told her my suspicions and that the ow bday was yesterday. I told my friend that I was thinking my H found a way to meet her last night and that he probably got her a present. My friend asked me if I checked Amazon. I told her I hadn't. But then I decided to check. Of course, nothing in the orders, but I checked the browsing history and saw that he had looked at a present that I know he got her before.
I just couldn't not confront him so I went to see him in his office. I told him what I saw in the browsing history and that when we were attending MC, we had agreed to be brutally honest. He said he didn't remember looking for that but ok. I said it was in there. He said he believed me.
I asked him if he was thinking about her and why he was looking at the gift. He admitted that he had been thinking about her. I asked, "what were you thinking?" I know I shouldn't have. He said he wasn't going to discuss that with me. When this first came out 5 months ago, he told me so much. I guess now, it's all off limits?
Anyway, he said the gift I saw was one that I had made the ow return. She was our friend and I asked for it to be returned. He said he always thought it was hers and she should have it. But he claims he didn't buy it. So I asked again for brutal honesty and told him my suspicions about him meeting up with her. He told me that he hadn't. That he hasn't been in contact or seen her at all. I know, it's probably a lie, but he was looking directly into my eyes.
He then asked me a question, I was praying he wouldn't ask. He asked if I've ever listened in on his conversations and I admitted I had. He said he knew it. I told him I'm not able to anymore and the one time I did, was only for a few minutes. I then explained that the reason I listened in was that he wasn't telling me anything. He'd stopped communicating with me and I knew he was hiding things. This was after he seemed to be trying then did a complete 180 and stopped everything back in mid-feb.
I told him I wasn't sorry I listened because it helped me to see what he was truly feeling. That he was planning to wait until I got a job to make any decisions. He said he hadn't made any decisions at that point. He got even more and more upset as we kept talking about this and then he said, he's done with our marriage.
I then got totally desperate. I begged him to give it more time. I asked him to wait to make any decisions. We've had going on 25 years together and most of it was good.
When I asked why he changed his mind back in mid-Feb, he said because he thought about it and his life was just not anything he thought it would be. I said, what about this life? The kids, the house, our friends, the life we made? He said, no not everything... but his job and his relationship. I asked him if he remembered that we had a good marriage up until a year ago. He agreed that for the most part, yes, he was happy with our marriage.
But now he doesn't have privacy. He feels trapped. When I asked about the whole "fake" thing he thinks of me, he says when you've been with someone as long as we have and you've never heard a certain tone of voice, it appears fake. I said, well you told me that you aren't judging me on my past when I was talking and now you admit that you were. Do you see why I told you that you were judging me on my past actions?
We both need to change, I told him. We are both changing and this is something we need to be open to. Can you at least please wait to see where our changes lead? He very reluctantly agreed. I admit to crying and begging. I know that I reversed so much today.
I told him we need to learn how to be more honest with each other. That if he has resentments, bitterness, or hard feelings about past things I've done, I want to hear them. Maybe that's another mistake. Probably is, but the rate he's been going, he won't share any of that anyway. I told him we at least need to be able to talk. He said, why? you have your friends who you talk to all the time and I'm sure it's about me and us. I told him when I talk to my friends it's mostly about what I am trying to work on for myself and how I'm trying to deal with things.
He's always been concerned with how people view him. On one hand, he says he doesn't really care what people think. But on the other, he cares that he still looks like the great husband, friend, father. I think all this messes that up since I did (he did with a couple too), tell a good number of our friends about the affair. But as I stated in another post, I have really cut off from talking to most of them. I only have friends who aren't associated with him or 3 other really good friends which are mostly my friends who I share this with.
I am not going to stop talking to my friends just because he is angry about that. But that could be another reason he won't want to stay and work on us.
Honestly, I wish I never listened in. I wish I never gave away I listened as I must have done in some of my other conversations with H, not sure how he figured it out, but he says he suspected. I guess brutal honesty does work both ways. I couldn't lie. When he looked at me, I just had to admit it. Maybe that will bite in the @$$ later on, but so be it.
I keep feeling that my marriage is supposed to work out, but I don't know. I am terrified. Filled with anxiety, fear and panic. I know I should have been prepared for him to tell me he's done. But I just wasn't and I still am not. I guess I have a lot more work to do on this aspect of MLC - detachment, letting go...
Apparently, even if he's not lying about seeing the ow, he is still in limerence with her. How can I compete with that? Even if he claims he wasn't in love with her, he wants that allure. He wants that simplicity. I just don't know where to go from here.
I eventually did tell him how sorry I am for everything. For betraying him by sharing our story with family and friends (not all but enough) on both sides. For all the hurt i've caused him including by invading his privacy.
I am looking for other ways to understand MLC, my part in this, and how to heal. I am still going through the phases of grief...
I'm all over the place, I know. It's the panic and anxiety. I once again wish I could sleep and never wake up. But I know that's not really me. I want to survive this. I want to thrive despite this. I want to heal whatever issues from my childhood and other traumatic events brought me to this place, including his affair and MLC. But it just [censored]. Why can't my life go back to the way it was before all this? It wasn't perfect but it was really great. At least to me...
Yes, we had challenges. Yes, things were hard in some areas, but the core, I felt that was ok. Now I am terrified I'm going to have to figure out what my life would really be like without him. I can't even think...
Hi B. Detaching can be difficult. I still struggle. I'm sure you've read Sandi's Rules...(Think it's called that). Review those; write your own version. Review it often. A few things that helped me was to think of mlc as a sickness/addiction. This person I care for made these choices to take this journey. They need to figure it out. It has nothing to do with me. Step back & let the journey happen.
When you start truly letting go, you'll feel it. It's letting go of a situation that you did not create. When you do this, your mind becomes free. The wheels stop turning so fast. You begin to focus more on YOU.
YOU come first. Your kids need you too of course. Every morning start the day with a word or mantra that sets the tone for a positive life. You might have set backs. STOP and refocus. I am strong, I matter, I will get through this, I'm not alone, I will be okay. Whatever gets you to reset your focus.
You CAN do this
Thank you, Canbird! I thought I had it figured out today. Then went totally against it. But I have to believe God sent me these thoughts and these messages so I have to trust that whatever is happening now, whatever I caused, must be faced.
I can get through this, even though it feels like I won't. Oh gosh, it feels like I won't. It hurts so much. But you are right. He is hurting so much too. He has to figure it out on his own. I hope all is well with you.
Journal...
And so it gets worse. After our talk, my SIL texted me to check in. She hasn't done that in weeks. I thought my H had told her about me listening in. So I called her and explained what I did. It's the guilt thing. I have to confess and ask for how I can make amends. She was upset but says she understood because of the lack of trust. It still hurt her.
But because I told my H total honesty, I told him. He was upset I told her as he wouldn't have said anything to her. I told him I thought because he had been sharing things with her that he would tell her. Apparently he is still avoidant in his communication style. So I guess I did a bunch of wrong things today.
Tomorrow is a new day. I owned up to it. I told him I'm sorry. He called his sis and didn't share anything of what came of that. I told him at dinner before the kids joined that I am sorry. He said it's fine. I told him I know it's not, but I am really sorry.
He didn't comment. But now he's been avoiding me. He's playing video games. He's been doing that for a long time now. Maybe a year and a half of many nights just being in his office playing games and doing his own thing. It used to only be a couple nights a week, now it's been every night. I guess I shouldn't expect anything different.
We are where we are. Right now I'm not sure if sheltering in place is a good thing or not. Sometimes I think not. Others, I'm wondering if it would have hastened him to ask for D or at least a separation.
I don't know how I feel about that. Everything right now outright terrifies me.
I did a few things for myself today. Went out and took pics and am learning the ukelele. That made me feel like I am trying to be more than I was. I just need to work on my emotional stability and my perceptions. Oh that's all?
That's really everything. My mental and emotional state is driving so many things. Please pray for me or talk to the universe. I need help changing me because I can't change anyone else. Blessings!
Read This LinkHi B. We all make mistakes. Move on. You said sorry, move on. It's in the past. Forget about it. The more you talk about it the more H will retreat. Let him play video games. Let him do his thing. He's another teen in the house. Remember, he's on his own journey. I get the freaking out, being scared. We've all been there. However, being in a pandemic lockdown is certainly new territory. Regardless, good to hear you're doing things for you. Give H space.
Next time you feel like talking to H, try a test run here. MLC is a different creature. You're not alone in this. We have really all been there. H is under the same roof as you. Remember that.
Tomorrow is another day.
So, you've had a serious conversation w/your h about everything. You've apologized...now what to do? Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward and stay the course. Any changes that you have made and continue to make are to be permanent and for you, not to try to keep him.
Right now, emotions are running high for all and, of course, he feels like a caged animal w/no where to run and hide. Now, he knows that you were snooping and will do everything in his power to keep things from you.
In the future, keep your conversations on point and short. Their attention span is that of a gnat. They will hone in on certain words and that is all they will "hear". Do not continue to apologize for what you've already apologized for. Just move along and continue to be the best person that you can be under the circumstances of living under one roof in trying times.
Stay the course, dig deeper for patience and no more conversations about the ow or the relationship. The more you question him about his actions/behaviors centering around her, the more likely you will be pushing him towards her. You don't want that.
Please be careful when asking about other sites or people in the same field as Michele. One of the rules is that we do not reference other sites, people in the same field, links, etc. Many people who come here don't bother to read the policies of the Board, so we have to remind people why certain items are edited and/or deleted from their postings...and there is no need to apologize...we have all done this too.
Hi
I would agree with the others
as hard as it is let it go
when someone is not totally in the relationship, we can protect ourselves
sometimes total truth may not help but I understand the need to share and open up
The more you try to get him to understand anything, the more he may get turned off
DB is more about the opposite
detaching
creating a new you
upbeat, fun, playful
focus on the kids
its more about pretend..and not ask too much of the uncommitted partner at the moment
hard ..yes very
If he has expressed a true desire to work things out and stay in the M, then MC may be helpful to work past the infidelity
If he is still on the fence and has not expressed a true desire with word and action to stay M, nothing we do will help
and many things will hurt
Hang in there...we all make mistakes on this road and yes it is so painful
so what to do with the pain
exactly what you did
share it with us, with a trusted therapist
someone who gets DB(my therapist had knowledge of Michelles work so that was helpful)
and feel the pain just sit with it and it will pass
it is grief...comes and goes..things are changing
New is scary
Thanks, CanBird. I will try to do better today. I will check the link you sent about detaching. And I will do a test run here if I feel the urge to talk to H about anything. Thank you for this!
Job, I am so sorry for referencing other people's sites. I won't do so again in the future. I appreciate the reminder to not apologize again. To keep conversations short. That he feels like a caged animal. I am trying to remember that he is in a lot of pain and he needs someone to blame that's not himself. After all, he has to live with himself. Thanks for the pep talk.
PeaceToday, Thank you! Yes, I recognize the grief. It doesn't help that today is the 1 yr anniversary of his dad's death. And he still resents me for the fact that he felt he couldn't share things with me. I also know it's not that he couldn't, it's that he didn't even try. But he was already heading down the tunnel and into replay so I know there is nothing I can do. I am going to let myself continue to grieve.
All,
I wonder, do we continue to go through grief when they finally move out? Then the same process if there is a legal separation or divorce? Do we keep having to cycle through grief? When do we get to feel peace? I know. Our own emotions are a choice based on our thoughts, right?
I hope you are all coping with the stress of being locked in and all that we deal with regarding MLC. Sending blessings and peaceful thoughts.
On top of it, I get to deal with a sick teenager. It's hard. You see them as little kids again when they are sick. But I also see it as a blessing. I am still a mom. A mom who loves and is there for her kids.
Blessings
B6 - I wish I could offer you more but there are so many on here with excellent experience and advice beyond what I can say as I too am still finding my way.
I can say however, that you are VERY new to this. If you look back in my thread (and most others) you can read about the mistakes I made, the confusion shows with our new found situations, which brings on desperate behaviour to “bring H back to his sense”.... all I can say is that you seem very strong and on the path to self awareness which I believe is a huge asset in this new reality.
I can also say that detaching does get easier. I was told this often early on and didn’t see it, but know I’m living it. He comes and goes, ignores me or talks to me and I pretend he’s fully a roommate, some guy living in my house. There will always be things that tweak a nerve or outright peeve you off but something in me has flipped and I have taken back my composure, my self esteem, my sense of humour, my interests, my family, my friends therefore MY LIFE. I can’t say I’m good 100% of the time but I try my best not to judge myself anymore either. There is no handbook for this ...we get to write our rules right now for ourselves (with awesome advice and guidance from those that have walked this before us)...keep practising detachment and my favourite - COMPASSIONATE INDIFFERENCE. You got this. (((B6)))
Believe,
You will go through the grieving process until it is over. There is no timeline for grieving, i.e., just as there is no true timelines for your spouse's MLC to be over. It will end when it ends. You will have ups and downs throughout it all, i.e., just as the MLCer has ups and downs. However, the LBS will work through their issues and go right through the ring of fire, whereas, the MLCer will skirt around edge and find ways to avoid doing the actual heavy work until much later in their crisis.
For now, take care of yourself and your children. They need you, the adult, now more then ever. Take it one day at at a time and do not plan too far in advance as things will change very quickly from day to day for all.
Believe, you’re probably aware I am cycling through a new round of grief from my posts by now. I am ten months in and have had many somewhat peaceful stretches of feeling detached and confident in myself. Things are hard again and I have had many of the same thoughts, fears, and worries as you. My H is also playing lots of video games lately! I just want to say: You’re not alone in these waves! ((Believe)))
Hello B6
I agree with the others. You’ve had the big conversation, now let it go, and do not bring up OW or R. You apologized, said you’re sorry, now let that go. Pick yourself back up and keep moving forward.
I would suggest less brutal honesty. Just honesty, don’t need the brutal part. One can be honest and sincere, while respecting and considering the other person’s feelings and emotional state.
Turn your focus back upon yourself. Dig for patience. Do your inner work, and make any changes permanent.
The LBS does seek to understand. So it follows we try to help our spouse understand. However, they do not want to, and are not in a place to understand. Remember emotions rule their life right now. He feels negative towards you. Your best course is to focus on you so his feelings don’t get reinforced and can eventually start to alter.
I wonder, do we continue to go through grief when they finally move out? Then the same process if there is a legal separation or divorce? Do we keep having to cycle through grief? When do we get to feel peace?
Grief takes as long as it takes. It will be over right when it is over, and not a second sooner.
When your spouse moves out, it triggers another spike of grief and pain. So does legal separation and divorce. Those are all bumps along the path to acceptance.
Do you have to cycle through it. If you want a healthy outcome - yes! However, one can get stuck in a stage of grief and exist there for a long long time. For example - denial. Unaware and unable to face what is and has happened. Not a great place to live out one’s days. Likewise getting stuck in anger or depression. I’m sure you’ve seen some people who are living angry depressed lives that are less than accepting of their lot.
So yes. Cycle though your grief. You will bounce back and redo various bits and pieces of each stage. Not everything is acknowledged within you at once, therefore not everything proceeds at the same pace. And somethings take longer than others. Don’t worry grief is healthy and perfectly normal - it’s a very good sign of healing.
Feeling peace. Hmmmm. It is a slow process to find your piece in all this. One pushes back denial and sees their pain and loss. Not all of it - there is too much to see all the first go around. Hence the cycles.
Anger takes place. A normal reaction to the emotional pain now seen. It can be short lived or a fire storm of emotions. Depends on the person and their experiences.
During bargaining we make deals. Offers to just let everything go back to how it was. Kind of like you did a couple of posts ago. Take that as a good sign. An other step closer to acceptance.
We bargain with our spouse, with God, with ourselves. The bargaining with ourselves is the big one. After bargaining doesn’t yield the results we want, depression sets in.
Depression hits, and hits hard. It sinks us low. GAL! Focus on you! Just keeping moving forward through the quagmire and get to the other side.
Depression feels like a pit. Lots of people reach their hands down to help pull you out. Others, like me, climb down and lock our finger together to give you a foothold. Your job is to put your foot in to the waiting step, and reach up to the hands. You decide to climb out when your ready. It doesn’t happen fast, and we all have been there and know that. From my experience, this is a pretty compassion bunch of folks around here. So again, there is no rush, just keep moving forward.
Acceptance is reached. That emotional understanding. Bits and pieces of our emotional pain accepted, while other bits and pieces are scattered among the various stages.
Eventually we find ourselves mostly in acceptance. This is true for most of the stages. None have definite boarders or delimitations. The stages of grief are traversed in a more nebulous fashion.
Acceptance does bring a much end to the denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. Yes, peace is a usual outcome. In my opinion and experience keeping a compassionate and kind view pays handsomely later on. Choose better not bitter.
I know. Our own emotions are a choice based on our thoughts, right?
Our emotions are Influenced by our thoughts. Emotions are based on our irrational minds, the pressures, triggers, attachments, stimulus, etc... and in no small part our beliefs.
Our thoughts and our physical actions are the only things we have direct control of. Thoughts and physical actions influence emotions and beliefs. For example - smile. Right now. Smile. See how you felt better. Now frown. Feels worse doesn’t it.
Our physical actions have a direct influence upon our emotional state. Our thoughts do as well.
The converse is also true that our emotions and beliefs do influence our thoughts and actions. Not control them, influence them. However, consistent efforts of our thoughts, the mental assertiveness, does yield changes. Decide what, who, and how you want to be. Then do it. It’s the inner work. The finding our beliefs and strengthening and altering. The true foundation to the peace you are seeking. It comes from within you.
Forgiveness is another noble and lofty goal to head towards. It is completely achievable, and without a doubt for you. Forgiveness is for you.
Forgiveness really pulls everything together. Compassion, understanding, empathy, acceptance - it lives within our beliefs. It is a way of life. Peace? Oh yes, very much so.
B6, you are somewhere along your path. Your grief will end. It lasts both shorter and longer then you think/feel it will.
There are no ways to speed up our grief. Our emotions find acceptance and we find our peace. It takes time. (((Hugs)))
DnJ
Sorry, I haven't replied Kindly, Job, Cardinal and DnJ...
Been working through my stuff and reading a lot. My D played some songs on her uke last night in honor of H's dad's 1 year passing anniversary. We cried. I held her. Then H held her. Later when I went to say goodnight to the kids, I checked in on H who as in his office. Not playing vids as is his usual. He was looking at stuff, but I am trying not to care. I told him how sorry I am for his loss and that I did really love his dad. I asked to give him a hug and he did let me. He held me like he would have in the past. I hope it gave him comfort.
Today is a new day. We have stayed out of each other's way. If we do interact, it's pretty roommate like. I guess I am getting used to this new distancing. Social distancing? Bah... this is MLC distancing. LOL.
I have felt anxious then did some self soothing things... tapping, reading, checking other sites, reading about MLC and reminding myself of the stages and that as an LBS, I am doing just fine.
Then I took a long walk. Hardly anyone outside. The butterflies were rampant. I felt connected to source. While walking I was listening to a spiritual teacher I love and processing. I really was working on my PIES. Felt good to physically be doing something, intellectually be doing something (i.e. youtube), emotionally be doing something (smiling at the butterflies, passersby, the trees), and spiritually be doing something (feeling grateful).
Is it wrong to post things to Instagram? I don't want to poke the bear. Will it look like I am trying to get attention? I don't want him to think I am trying to get attention when I post. I am doing so to remind myself and those I love of positive things. I do hate having to worry about stuff like this. I am getting a life. I want to share the life I am getting for ME.
Thank you all for your support, honesty and caring. I feel loved. Not just from myself but from strangers. It's the oddest thing and the most amazing thing too. Blessings
Is it wrong to post things to Instagram? I don't want to poke the bear. Will it look like I am trying to get attention? I don't want him to think I am trying to get attention when I post. I am doing so to remind myself and those I love of positive things. I do hate having to worry about stuff like this. I am getting a life. I want to share the life I am getting for ME.
Thank you all for your support, honesty and caring. I feel loved. Not just from myself but from strangers. It's the oddest thing and the most amazing thing too. Blessings
Hey B6 - my opinion is that as long as you are posting for YOU and not trying to insight a reaction out of H go for it.
As long as it is healthy for YOU to be on instagram and YOU get enjoyment out of it then I don’t think there is anything wrong with it...maybe some of the veterans can chime in from the MLC perspective? (((Hugs)))
Hello B6
Posting on social media is ok. Like you said, you are doing it for you. It is like focusing on you and GAL - it’s for you, not to influence H.
If H questions why the posts, keep your answer short - Oh, I like posting.
MLCers do tend to watch us, so don’t be surprised if H notices and follows your new behaviour.
DnJ
Thank you, Kindly and DnJ! I will post for ME. It does help and I have felt better feeling connected with others. Especially now with all of us in lockdown. I am trying to share happy and upbeat things. I think we all need that right now.
Journaling
Been such a strange time. I still struggling with the ups and downs of my emotions. H has been talking a bit more. He is starting college (or finishing) finally. It's actually one of his life goals and I hope this helps with his major discontent. I am happy and excited for him and I told him. Conversations have been better, but letting him lead the way in that. We are good roommates and good coparents. Doesn't mean I don't hurt and miss him. I do, but I continue to do things to help me cope.
Been practicing my Ukelele, listening to podcasts, doing my eft tapping, reading alot, checking out posts on various social media that is insightful/inspiring and sharing things with my girlfriends. Trying to help keep me and others inspired.
Taking my walks, working out, cooking good meals for the family... doing things that make me feel proud. I am starting to dream about things I would do with or without him. If he is going to leave me, I better have a plan. And even if he doesn't, I can prioritize the list and tell him which I want to do and see what makes sense from a family perspective.
Thanks for the support!
I like everything you said
continue to work on you...it is really your best chance
read about feminine energy and masculine energy
Why is this so hard? I sometimes think, if he had passed away it may have been easier than dealing with the pain of his betrayal and me realizing he's in MLC with no clear end date. Then I could begin to imagine life with just me and the kids and both sides of our family.
But this? When you know the person you married is effectively gone. The marriage you cherished and the one so many admired is a lie and is dead, but you cant really bury it because you are trying to stand?
I am trying to do what Hearts Blessing recommends and detach, but we are still in the same house. He is polite but extremely distant. We have never been that way before. It hurts so much and my anxiety and depression are just there hovering. So we fight to find joy in each moment or at least peace.
But how can I really focus on what makes me happy when I am so worried about losing my family? A friend of mine says I need to cut the spiritual chord so I can swim before I drown. Maybe that's what detachment is? But how?
Because to stand, I must be strong, whole, complete and healed. I can't do that if I am constantly worried about his process, progress and healing. I am doing smart contact and now I'm just letting him take the lead. But it's so hard. It still hurts so much every day.
Doing the Work to questions my beliefs when I can. That's hard too. But I guess for those of us i. this fire, that's all there is. The work in us... never ending.But hopefully eventually we will rise.
B6,
You come across as being a spiritual, compassionate person. Let me share three things that have helped me.
First, as I told her nephew (who told me he prays for our reconciliation), “I would much rather you pray for her reconciliation with her version of God. Everything follows from that.” Whatever label one uses (MLC, WAW), I believe my wife is on an existential journey to discover the best version of herself. Wherever this leads her, I pray for the success of that journey, regardless of my own needs. For me, this is the essence of love.
Second, as I told a mutual friend (who is a priest), “You and I believe there is an entity that loves her more than either of us can. We can only entrust her journey to that entity.” (See my definition of entity below.)
Third, my own journey is very much one of learning to trust God, whom I think of in metaphorical terms. For me, God is my abbreviated term to refer to the authentic, best version of each of us. In a sense, when I say, trust God, I mean trust my future self. I trust myself to have the strength and compassion to lovingly support her, even as I give her as much space and freedom as she needs. But I realize as well that to be in this position is to be in pain. Detachment does not mean absence of pain. As I’m sure you know, to love is to risk pain. According to Christian lore, two millennia ago next week, a man died a cruel death proving just that.
Paco,
Thank you. I am crying as I respond to this.
B6,
You come across as being a spiritual, compassionate person. Let me share three things that have helped me.
First, as I told her nephew (who told me he prays for our reconciliation), “I would much rather you pray for her reconciliation with her version of God. Everything follows from that.” Whatever label one uses (MLC, WAW), I believe my wife is on an existential journey to discover the best version of herself. Wherever this leads her, I pray for the success of that journey, regardless of my own needs. For me, this is the essence of love.
Second, as I told a mutual friend (who is a priest), “You and I believe there is an entity that loves her more than either of us can. We can only entrust her journey to that entity.” (See my definition of entity below.)
Third, my own journey is very much one of learning to trust God, whom I think of in metaphorical terms. For me, God is my abbreviated term to refer to the authentic, best version of each of us. In a sense, when I say, trust God, I mean trust my future self. I trust myself to have the strength and compassion to lovingly support her, even as I give her as much space and freedom as she needs. But I realize as well that to be in this position is to be in pain. Detachment does not mean absence of pain. As I’m sure you know, to love is to risk pain. According to Christian lore, two millennia ago next week, a man died a cruel death proving just that.
First, You are right. I need to pray for her reconciliation with H's version of God, which in the past he has said he believes there's something, but he doesn't believe it does things for us. But earlier in his life he did believe in God in deep ways. I don't want to impose my faith or beliefs on him. I just want him to be guided by a compass that helps him to feel happy, proud, free... all the things he wants for himself, truly.
B6,
Second, as I told a mutual friend (who is a priest), “You and I believe there is an entity that loves her more than either of us can. We can only entrust her journey to that entity.” (See my definition of entity below.)
I do believe there is an entity that loves him more than I can. I am afraid to trust his or my journey. The pain is unbearable sometimes. Yet, I know, when the veil from my eyes are lifted, I can see how much pain he is in. How he wishes he wasn't in this pain and because he can't stand it in himself, he is searching everywhere he can for a lifeline... and unfortunately, me and the life we built isn't it.
But it hurts so much, because I want to be there for him. I want to throw him a lifeline. I want to light the path. But my light is dim. I know that. I am so focused on him sometimes, I am having a hard time seeing my own light.
I think too, that I have wanted to help others. To do work that matters in the world and I haven't been able to find that path. So I feel even worse about my value. I know that my value lies in what I do regardless of pay. But we live in a western world where money feeds our kids and supports a specific lifestyle.
B6,
Third, my own journey is very much one of learning to trust God, whom I think of in metaphorical terms. For me, God is my abbreviated term to refer to the authentic, best version of each of us. In a sense, when I say, trust God, I mean trust my future self. I trust myself to have the strength and compassion to lovingly support her, even as I give her as much space and freedom as she needs. But I realize as well that to be in this position is to be in pain. Detachment does not mean absence of pain. As I’m sure you know, to love is to risk pain. According to Christian lore, two millennia ago next week, a man died a cruel death proving just that.
Third, It's such a crux right now. From reading HeartsBlessings posts from the past, I know that detachment saves us from being rocked too much by what the MLCer does or doesn't do. Trusting God is so very hard for me. I have strayed from my roman C foundation because he didn't like to go to church and really there is much about the one we've been going to which doesn't resonate with me. I am finding roman C mass on TV much easier to attend and be present.
I realize now that regardless of what he thinks or feels I have to quit bartering away the things that make my soul happy. So I attend now. And although I have a ways to go to feel the deep connection I want and used to feel, I am trying. I guess leaning in to the pain? Even though it is so very hard sometimes...
Thinking good thoughts for you, my new friend, Paco. Thank you so much for your wisdom. I will have to re-read this (as well as so many others who've shared wisdom with me). It's easy to forget the wisdom in the heat of the pain.
Blessings
Have you read the Detachment thread? If not, you should. It may help you figure out what you need to do in the detachment arena.
Also, it's hard because we still see the person that we loved and married, but deep down, that person has changed into the mirror image (opposite) of who we knew and loved. It continues to hurt because he's still beating his own drum and keeping you on the merry-go-round. You have to figure out a way to get off that ride, i.e., even if it is a little day by day.
Leave him to his crisis. Stop attempting to take the wheel back from God. God will drive the bus if you will just drop that rope and have faith in the process.
Keep the focus on you! Focus on what you can control and fix for now.
Thanks, Job! I'll look at the detachment thread. I know I need to really work on that. I appreciate it!
You wrote: “ regardless of what he thinks or feels I have to quit bartering away the things that make my soul happy”
Wow!
Thanks, Paco! Starting a list of things that set my soul on fire. We all should right?
Hello B6
But how can I really focus on what makes me happy when I am so worried about losing my family? A friend of mine says I need to cut the spiritual chord so I can swim before I drown. Maybe that's what detachment is? But how?
Worry is like praying for something you don’t want.
Letting go of doubt, worry, and fear is a process and takes time.
For what it’s worth, detachment, in this situation, is uncoupling your emotions from H’s emotional state and his behaviour. You still feel, you just don’t get uncontrollably dragged around.
Indifference is when your emotions, regarding H and his antics, are greatly attenuated. You feel a numbness, a void, towards him. The pain and anxiety are much reduced. Indifference is a bit strange at first.
I don’t agree, nor advocate, cutting the spiritual cord. That thread of faith doesn’t drowned us, it lifts. And we do learn to swim these turbulent waters.
On the spiritual path of your PIES, I found this helpful in detaching, finding indifference, and letting go, while still being compassionate. There is no need to pray repeatedly. God knows what you desire, knows your deepest desires.
Prayers evolve as one progresses. In my bargaining stage my prayers were self driven. Were for reconciliation. I promised stuff, if only He’d just make her come back.
I no longer pray for reconciliation. God knows my desires, and He doesn’t need me reminding Him. My prayers are for others, to bless and watch over - that kind of thing. Yes I include specifics, but God hardly needs them.
About the only prayer I ask for myself is guidance to continue to become who I am supposed to be. To grow and live in the light.
Cutting the cord is not the same as Give it to God.
DnJ
Believe
This journey in MLC seems to wake us up
I totally get what you are saying how manage all the changes, work on acceptance, be upbeat
while we are in so much pain
The loss of the old M has to be dealt with to create something new
The pain will come and go
I have learned to trust the pain as a teacher when change or hurt or grief is present
feel it and yes search for your dreams
try to get moments of peace
this journey is really about us
we may lose the person, we thought we would spend our life with
some will reconcile
all we have is today and you can show your H what he may lose in you by being the strong independent
confident woman he M
How?
one moment at a time
doing this work and feeling the pain will lead you there
Healing your past
he has given you a great opportunity
Journal
How can we really let go and trust this will work out as it should? I know I have to keep focused kn self care, self reflection and personal healing, but underlying that is this desperation for my husband back and for my family to be intact. Why is sleeping fraught with longing and sadness and hunger for a person who no longer feels the same? Living in the same house, pretending to be good roommates, it's brutal. I know others have it worse, but it just hurts sometimes.
I exercise, listen to great podcasts and videos to help with self growth. I pray often. I ask for help and release. Then my heart starts pounding, my skin feels like its covered with ants, and my mind makes me dizzy. When will this stop? How can we stop it
_______
Peace today, thank you. I hear you. it's so hard in the midst of the physical and emotional pain to see that this is an opportunity. Dreams are so hard to release when they didn't feel like dreams but more of a real future. So clear, so true and so sweet that letting go hurts like nothing I've ever felt. I know grief comes in stages. I wonder if not knowing whether he will leave me is keeping me in this waiting stage where grief and hope keep cycling.
Trying to breathe. Feeling like I'm choking
Believe,
We have to put our faith in God and yes, the techniques that we try to help people utilize here. Let's face it, none of us has a crystal ball and if we don't put faith in God and yes, even this system, then what do we have left? I have mentioned this before many years ago, that God has a way of working things out, for example when a tornado and/or hurricane come through a town/city, it destroys a lot of beautiful homes, scenery and businesses. However, when the storms are over and done with the people of said towns/cities begin to rebuild and when they do rebuild, their structures are stronger and better and yes, the people all come together to help one another...but I want to point out that we learn from these experiences and we learn how to build stronger and better foundations for our buildings and our foundations of life.
Your mind is working over time because you are worried, anxious and grieving. Do you think you may have a touch of depression going on or just going through the grieving process? It takes time, a lot of time, to work through the grieving process and no two days will be a like. Give yourself the permission to grieve and work through the grief and not just around it. Be patient w/yourself and know that one day, you will differently when you wake up and face the day.
The fear of the unknown is nipping at your heels and that is most likely why you feel like you are choking, i.e., you have no control over the situation w/him, nor can you fix what ails him. He has to do that necessary/hard work. Try to just focus on today and leave tomorrow to reveal itself when it's ready.
Keep the focus on you as much as possible. You can only control how you react to his behavior. Believe, have faith that no matter how things work out, you will be just fine. Dig deeper for patience and again...keep the focus on you. Leave your h in God's hands.
Believe,
Your mind is working over time because you are worried, anxious and grieving. Do you think you may have a touch of depression going on or just going through the grieving process? It takes time, a lot of time, to work through the grieving process and no two days will be a like. Give yourself the permission to grieve and work through the grief and not just around it. Be patient w/yourself and know that one day, you will differently when you wake up and face the day.
The fear of the unknown is nipping at your heels and that is most likely why you feel like you are choking, i.e., you have no control over the situation w/him, nor can you fix what ails him. He has to do that necessary/hard work. Try to just focus on today and leave tomorrow to reveal itself when it's ready.
Keep the focus on you as much as possible. You can only control how you react to his behavior. Believe, have faith that no matter how things work out, you will be just fine. Dig deeper for patience and again...keep the focus on you. Leave your h in God's hands.
Job,
Yes, I do believe I've been struggling with depression and anxiety for a good portion of my life. I know there are many inner demons for myself that I am starting to listen to. But on top of that, I am deeply grieving what I thought my life would be like.
I am trying to focus on me as much as possible and trying NOT to react to anything. I'll share another post as I received great advice that some may find useful. Thank you for continuing to post and cheer me up!
Journal
This morning (super early), I tried to engage my spouse in conversation. I told him I missed his friendship. He says we talk, but I said I know he is struggling with things and I want to be there for him. He said he doesn't want to talk about it. Then I started to apologize for all the things I did in the past to hurt him. He said it's too early for that kind of talk so I rolled over at stopped.
But per usual, my mind was racing, my body felt like it had ants crawling all over and my heart was pounding out of my chest. Out of desperation, I texted one of my best friends and told her of the pain I was in and how I don't know what to do. I apologized that it was so early for this kind of venting and she sent this...
_____
My friend's text:
"Never be sorry. I am your sounding board and you are mine. You are safe with me. I understand and love you so very much. It seems impossible now...but the moment you go inward and plead with yourself to tell you what is wrong, to share your own feelings with yourself, to confide in you and still love you without judgement- that is the moment YOU become loved. And therefore loveable. Its almost like the person who cant get any dates until they are in a relationship, then suddenly EVERYBODY wants them. Lol. I have a feeling that once you fall in love with YOU- things will fall into place. We lose ourselves in our partners. Its not supposed to be that way. We are told, in a marriage, two become one. It sounds beautiful. In reality...the two are two. Independent of one another. And they create one thing: a relationship. Still...it consists of TWO people. Your future is not rooted in him. It is rooted in you. Not even your children. They have their own path...eventually, they, too will be their own force to reckon with. And that is so fricken awesome if you think about it! The kids will be okay ONLY if YOU are okay. You...are the source. You are. And you have every will and power to swim harder and detach. Let go so you can use both hands to swim to shore. He can swim too. He'll meet you there. I promise."
______
There is a lot more and so much wisdom in her reminder and her words. I was going to share, but it is very long. Let's just say, she sees me. So much better than I have been seeing myself. I am going to do the work. Cut the spiritual tie as she says and swim. This way, when he comes back (trying to believe), I will be whole and it won't be two halves making one. It will be two whole people joining together to make a marriage.
I have a lot of hard questions to ask myself. A lot of things to really think about. We stopped sharing real goals. I allowed him to take the reigns in too many areas. I was subordinate in ways I shouldn't have been and took control in other ways that I shouldn't have. Roles were reversed in some areas and it changed me.
I want ME back.
More than I want to save him, actually. I can't save him. He can't save me. We must save ourselves first so that we can be good humans and strong parents for our kids.
I am so very blessed to have a friend like her. I knew, even just a day after DB, that this would be an opportunity and actually a blessing in disguise. I had fallen in love with myself and lost that live when I have been trying to win him back... before I realized he is in MLC and can't be won back.
If this didn't happen, I wouldn't be as real and honest with my friends as I have been these past months. I wouldn't be reaching out to so many as I have been. I was so absorbed in H and my family. I was pretending that life lived on a more shallow plane was ok. And for some days it really is. The highs and lows are too hard to navigate if you have to ride the highs/lows and do it multiple times a week. But we must be capable of dealing with painful feelings when they arise both in ourselves and in others... otherwise, we get to a place, much like our MLCer, where we don't know who we are anymore because we have forgotten how to listen.
So now I must stop always running away from my feelings and find out what the feelings are hiding from me. What is my mind trying to hide by flooding me with feelings? Lots to ponder and work through... It's a scary tough road. I wish us all strength and courage... and most of all LOVE... for ourselves, from God, from those in our lives.
Blessings
Believe,
I am going to suggest that you try to stop engaging your h in conversations. He is very much aware that you miss his friendship, companionship, etc. Just leave him be. If he wants/needs to talk to you he will. Please, please try to refrain from having relationship conversations w/him. He knows you love him and want him to be okay. When you have these conversations, believe it or not, you are putting pressure on him and right now, he is only thinking of himself and the inner pain he is dealing with.
Now it is time to work on YOU! Keep the focus on you and allow God to work on your h.
Job, thanks so much! I know I did the wrong thing. I haven't been sleeping well and when my heart starts racing, my skin starts tingling, my mind gets going so early in the morning. I know that I need to stop doing that. I know he is incapable of dealing with anything other than himself. I know that. I am trying to learn better self control.
I am a talker, communicator, and yes, controller. I will learn. I am learning. I have done better and better each week. This is the first time in almost 2 weeks I said anything like this. So I just have to keep doing what I am doing. Thank you so much!
Hi B6. When I read your posts, I see a lot of myself. Trust me. Just, ignore him. Remember when you first started liking boys? Have you ever ignored a boy you liked? Act 'as if' you don't care. Nothing he does bothers you. Ignore him, listen, observe, smile. Let him start conversations. I get the need to chat. The need for that friendship that was. Especially now. I too am living with H. We are still legally M,; nothing was filed! . (I'll post on my page later).
Trust me & you'll see a difference.
Another thing that help me was spending extra time on self care beauty routines. I don't have any fancy creams, but I really feel better after my beauty rituals. And wear make up! A natuarl look. Put on marcarsa. It really does feel good when you take extra for your self. Try some DIY treatments.
Take care of you inside & out.
Canbird - great advice. Little things that we do for ourselves make such a difference. So funny I don’t wear makeup but I’ve started “playing around” with the natural look too. And even tho I’m working from home, I get up and get dressed “as if” I’m going to work every morning...put on my jewelry etc....why the heck not!!
I think you’re doing well B6 - it took me a lot longer to get to where you appear to already be! Keep going (((hugs)))!!
Believe - you are receiving great advice and doing very well!
The early months of this are so hard. We have to trust the process and know that better days are coming our way, because they are!
Regarding sleep, well into my ex’s MLC, my sister turned me onto Solgar (brand name) Calcium Magnesium Citrate with Vitamin D3. Don’t think the brand matters just stating what I used. I like the liquid format and prefer the blueberry flavor. It is all natural, helps with anxiety and sleep. Maybe check it out but if you try it, more is not better as it can cause a runny tummy.
Just keep reminding yourself you did not cause this nor can you fix it. Emotionally healthy people with good coping skills do not go through MLC.
Believe
Your friend said some amazing things and it sounds like you understand what you need to do
If you practice letting go...you will get empowered
you come first and yes you need 2 hands to properly swim
you cant save him...only he can
you cant save this relationship alone
and we all have made mistakes with trying to make our Mlcer aware
I know I did and I really believed at that time maybe he didnt know he could come home...
but he ignored all my words, all my changes and hard work and continued down his own path
eventually leading himself after many years to total destruction and misery
I saved me
I saved my kids
you can as well
Canbird, Kindly, HaWho and PeaceToday...
Thank you so much for your support! I have a hard time in the mornings. Especially when he can't sleep or wakes up early and I can sense him on his phone. Then I get tempted to look. I do sometimes glance, but never say anything or try to engage.
In the mornings is when my mind goes back to the why questions... why did he do this? Why didn't he value the relationship like I did? How could he not remember we promised to never do this to each other like his dad did to his mom? And it starts my heart racing, my skin crawling and I can feel myself wanting to engage (or rage).
Instead, I begin to pray for God to change me. To make me into who I need to be. The person who can weather any storm. The person who can stand in the midst of the worst of it and actually laugh. Nothing can bring me down. I have all the power of the universe inside me.
I have this bracelet which I wear and love... "Fate whispers to the warrior- You can't handle the storm. And the warrior whispers back- I am the storm."
I know that I am the warrior who is the storm. The one how is powerful and fierce and all things. It's not that I will bring death and destruction. No. It's that I am all the elements that live in the power of life. I can be the wind, the sea, the sky, the earth, the fire, the light... we are all of it. We can't be destroyed by what comes. We embody what comes and come through it.
We embrace our power and allow it to carry us through. So I leaned in to God and allowed myself to know, as my friend reminded me, I am God (or the way I like to put it--- I am ONE with God and God is everything). If I believe that, then I know that God is already working for me. God is already working for H. I must let go of any illusions that I have any control over him or his life.
I only have control over mine. I don't even have control over my kids' lives. I can influence, I can do my best to protect, but at the end of the day, they too will grow up and leave. In the meantime, I am doing everything I can to show them how to make it through a devastating time. How to look inward and be strong enough to evolve... strong enough to transform (Caterpillar to butterfly or coal to diamond).
Thank you for your wisdom, cheerleading and support, all! Have a great day!
B6- just wanted to say that for the first 4 months I too had an awful time in the mornings and I analyzed the p**p out of it. All I could come up with was that overnight we refresh, we regroup we prepare ourselves to start a new fresh day. In our situations we wake up and are faced with another full day of our reality. Like Groundhog Day as much as we want things with our H to be different it is not, so our “new day” is another day of just coping to get by. I flipped the tables on my awful mornings by getting out for an awesome walk while listening to something empowering. Maybe it’s a Fav meditation, or just sounds of nature but something that is enjoyable and grounding to you. I also did “sights and sound” exercises where I would go on a walk and really take the time to take everything in in a different way than before. I’d hear a bird and try to find it, I’d look at a tree and really look at its leaves or texture of its trunk...really feel the wind. It sounds silly but it allows for you time, stops the mind from racing, gets you out of H’s space and most of all it grounds you. You have a great attitude and are doing well ...just detach more as others always remind us. Enjoy your day!
B
wow...amazing
hang onto those words
I can tell you that once my XH MLcer left the home
things and energy in our home changed instantly
It gets easier
this is temporary...everything
one step at a time
Good Morning B6
You have received some really sage advice. I like your IRL friend’s words, very wise.
In the mornings is when my mind goes back to the why questions... why did he do this? Why didn't he value the relationship like I did? How could he not remember we promised to never do this to each other like his dad did to his mom? And it starts my heart racing, my skin crawling and I can feel myself wanting to engage
Oh, I do remember those weird sensation - like your skin crawling. I couldn’t handle long sleeves, oh my goodness my breathing would get all amped up, my arms felt weird, my skin needed to be uncovered. You’re all fine. Perfectly normal. Time will heal.
Those why questions are persistent aren’t they? We all need a certain amount of understanding before we can let go. We also need a certain amount of acceptance, emotional understanding, before we can let go.
Why didn't doesn’t he value the relationship like I did?
Careful with your wording, your mind is listening.
Pretty sure he did value the relationship. You were married 21 years and together 25. Do not rewrite history.
You cannot read his mind. Stay more to his actions. He appears to not currently value the relationship. And yes, he is not the same guy you knew/know. He is confused and emotionally driven. “Why” he does things, even he doesn’t know. It just feels right-ish.
How could he not remember we promised to never do this to each other...
Mind reading.
The sad fact is that he probably does remember his promise and vows. He just can’t face them. His is driven to find justifications to abandon his own promises. They bury their loving emotions, unable to sort through so many unearthed past feelings. They are consumed by their own unreconciled past. They live in the past and hopefully grow up from there and then.
For us, and our crawling skin, our reactions are from inside us. The very questions you are asking about H - not remembering his promises to never do this - you are asking yourself.
How can I let go? I promised to never let go. To never just abandon him. For better or worse. All that stuff.
Drop the rope or be dragged. (((Hugs)))
Compassionate indifference.
You are so correct, you must save yourself first. We find our way, to let go, get through the withdrawal, to grieve.
We all need a certain amount of understanding and acceptance - to let go. Your healing and growth is not breaking your promises. In fact, in the growth of compassion and acceptance we find our “word”, our sincerity, more rock solid than ever.
Instead, I begin to pray for God to change me. To make me into who I need to be.
I like that.
God does answer all prayers.
You change you. Free will and all that. God does place challenges to help us become who we need to be. He never puts more on your plate than you can handle. We are stronger than we first realize. Have faith and let God.
DnJ
B6- just wanted to say that for the first 4 months I too had an awful time in the mornings and I analyzed the p**p out of it. All I could come up with was that overnight we refresh, we regroup we prepare ourselves to start a new fresh day. In our situations we wake up and are faced with another full day of our reality. Like Groundhog Day as much as we want things with our H to be different it is not, so our “new day” is another day of just coping to get by. I flipped the tables on my awful mornings by getting out for an awesome walk while listening to something empowering. Maybe it’s a Fav meditation, or just sounds of nature but something that is enjoyable and grounding to you. I also did “sights and sound” exercises where I would go on a walk and really take the time to take everything in in a different way than before. I’d hear a bird and try to find it, I’d look at a tree and really look at its leaves or texture of its trunk...really feel the wind. It sounds silly but it allows for you time, stops the mind from racing, gets you out of H’s space and most of all it grounds you. You have a great attitude and are doing well ...just detach more as others always remind us. Enjoy your day!
Kindly, Thank you for this recommendation. I will have to consider how to incorporate something like this. I realized that today I was having a panic attack. I haven't had them like this in a while. I starting shaking and unable to stop my jaw from shaking. I took herbs for anxiety and now I think that long with breathing is helping. Prayers sometimes don't really help all that much. Maybe because I am clinging to the visions in my head that aren't positive.
But I will try to work on getting out of my head in the morning. Even just getting up and getting out of the bed that we still share but we are clinging to the edges like we are afraid to touch. Everything now seems so fraught with tension. Even when we are trying to be courteous and stay out of each other's way.
Thank you for the reminder that my mind is listening. I do have to be much more aware of the thoughts I allow to linger in my mind. The more I allow myself to ask disempowering questions, the more I find these panic attacks or anxiety attacks come up. It's very hard. I have been into self help and psychology since I was in high school and you would think I would be better at this, but alas...
How could he not remember we promised to never do this to each other...
Mind reading.
The sad fact is that he probably does remember his promise and vows. He just can’t face them. His is driven to find justifications to abandon his own promises. They bury their loving emotions, unable to sort through so many unearthed past feelings. They are consumed by their own unreconciled past. They live in the past and hopefully grow up from there and then.
For us, and our crawling skin, our reactions are from inside us. The very questions you are asking about H - not remembering his promises to never do this - you are asking yourself.
How can I let go? I promised to never let go. To never just abandon him. For better or worse. All that stuff.
Drop the rope or be dragged. (((Hugs)))
Compassionate indifference.
You are so correct, you must save yourself first. We find our way, to let go, get through the withdrawal, to grieve.
We all need a certain amount of understanding and acceptance - to let go. Your healing and growth is not breaking your promises. In fact, in the growth of compassion and acceptance we find our “word”, our sincerity, more rock solid than ever.
Instead, I begin to pray for God to change me. To make me into who I need to be.
I like that.
God does answer all prayers.
You change you. Free will and all that. God does place challenges to help us become who we need to be. He never puts more on your plate than you can handle. We are stronger than we first realize. Have faith and let God.
DnJ
Drop the rope. Stop clinging so I can swim....everything now is about letting go and accepting what is. Loving what is right at this minute and not having any responsibility for anyone else but me. What am I thinking? How is that affecting how I am being or treating others?
So much work to do always. It's exhausting in the midst of this crisis. Even the world crisis.
I am grateful to all of you who continue to come and post. Thank you for your encouragement. I feel less alone.
Journal
Struggled yesterday. Had a lot of back and forth emotions. The night before I had realized that I was worth more than how I was being treated. I felt completely detached... almost a bit bitter for how H is willing to treat me. But then the night comes and the morning... Maybe it was that it was Palm Sunday or as my BFF said, Venus (planet) entered Aries... things aligning oddly?
Anyway, I struggled most of the day. I had suspicious thoughts about H and what he was doing out on his "run." I am doing much better not even worrying or thinking about what he is doing throughout the day. Although, how will I ever really trust him again? He did things (send pics, texts etc) while I was in the room. I felt like a trusting idiot. Can you ever get that faith and trust back in a person who betrayed you so thoroughly?
I know that question is really for the time when we are reconciling. I know that is down the road. I must continue to focus on me. We had a good night. Did video conference with family for a birthday which was fun. It was great to feel like a family even for a short time as no one knew what we were going through so we were being the "happy" family everyone has always seen.
Then we had a really yummy dinner which he made and played a board game. We all really like that game as it's not as competitive as others. Yes, one person wins but it takes logic and skill to do so. He had hurt himself on his run so I helped him a little and he let me. Even as roommates and friends we can do those things.
I did go to bed early so I could regroup and read. I was able to calm my mind, get myself centered and keep my expectations at zero. I woke up without the deep anxiety I had the day before. Now I am wondering if it's hormones or what. I feel calmer today.
Going to take care of myself. Applied to 2 jobs. Not really up my alley, but just continuing to put my name out there feels right. Listened to some podecasts that remind me to do the work on my mind. Going to change into workout clothes so I can do some exercises. It's raining here so I can't go out, or maybe I will once the weather clears. Then I have more inner work to do. Maybe I'll pain with my D. She's painting a lot or listen to music with S. We'll see how the rest of the day goes.
So far, I am doing what feels good to me today. I am proud of myself. Be good to yourselves all!
Way to go B6! Keep the focus on you and continue to do what works for you. Sounds like you kept busy and kept focused on what you can do/change right now. Thumbs up!
Thanks, Kindly! I am continuing to keep expectations low. Seek out support online and with friends/family who are willing to listen. Trying not to overwhelm people. Trying to manage my own mental space. I have a lot of healing to do. A lot of things to analyze. I am starting to put a list of places together I want to see once this is over. Places in and around where i live that i haven't seen yet.
At least I am trying to GAL even just in my mind. It helps, but the hours do drag on sometimes. It's hard. I know it's hard for all of us. I do so love my family. I do actually so love me... so very much.
We took a walk around our neighborhood with the dog. It was so nice even though the sun came and went. It was nice though to get out. To feel like the world is a little bigger than this house.
Life is good despite these challenges. Maybe even because of it. Blessings
Journal,
I think I screwed up today.
Today is the 1 year anniversary of H's dad's death. I asked to give him a hug early this morning while he was working in his office. He did let me. Then my SIL called to talk and he saw me crying. I think he knew it was because I missed his dad, but because he thinks I didn't really love or respect his dad because his dad also had an affair on his mom right after we got married, he's not wanted to share ANYTHING about his feelings.
I talked with my SIL about her anxiety over what's happening in the world and was able to help her. That made me feel good and I felt like my old, empowered self again. The one I know he used to love and admire.
He was in the kitchen so I went to talk to him about my SIL and other things. Since he asked me who was on the phone prior, I believe he'd want to know. We ended up having a good conversation and so I finally asked, "How are you doing?" He shrugged. I asked if I could hug him again. He let me.
I then told him that I loved him. Instead of saying, I love you too, like he did 3 weeks ago (haven't said it in that long) he said I know.
I said, " Do you want to talk about your dad?" He said, "No."
I said, "You're still not ready to let me in." I know, I shouldn't have said that. Of course he's not or he would have brought it up himself. Trust is such short supply and maybe he'll never want to trust me again.
I said, "Ok." And he quickly walked away. He was getting ready to go to the store for stuff and I just did the dishes trying not to berate myself for loving him and wanting to offer comfort on this very tough day.
So here I am. The me that I am... the one that empathizes, that had been his safe place, the only one he would turn to... he isn't turning to me. My heart is telling me he's turning to her. But again, since I haven't been spying on him, I have no idea.
Part of me is ok with him doing that as long as he is really processing his pain. I know he'll want to be there for her during her mother's 1 year coming up in 3 months. But who knows what will happen. I think she's still with her H. I haven't had to drive by her house in weeks so I don't know. I believe she is still there. And I pray they are reconciling. As her husband doesn't know, she has a better chance. And months ago, during our last email (she was a friend), she said she would never bother us again. Never contact us and never be in our lives.
Being religious, I am praying that's true. But let's face it, many religious people have affairs and justify it because of the pain they are in that they can't handle.
I keep praying that God change me for the better. I don't want to stop caring or showing my love and caring to him just because it's against DB rules. This is a very sad day. Even if he's still so far away from me, how can I not at least reach out?
So I did it. I can't be sorry I did. I love him and I care about him too. His pain, all of his pain, matters to me. I am going to be ok that it does and let my heart hurt that he keeps pushing me away. I did what my conscience knows had to be done. I offered love, kindess, physical affection (His main love language) and sympathy.
If that's something that pushes him back a bit into the tunnel, well so be it. I just know that down the road, he'll remember that I tried.
Keep praying to be changed. Keep praying for my own mind to be opened to what may come next. Keep hoping that the light will peak through. He is calmer. He has been looking me in the eyes. I could see him when we were playing games last night with the kids. He looked at me and we had a connection. I felt the zing. I know he did too, but he's fighting it. He's still deep in the hole and I am trying to have zero expectations.
Still, this is so hard today when the grief is so deep... for his dad... for him... for all of us.
Believe, I think you are right not to berate yourself. It's not easy to stop caring and stop wanting to be there for our spouses, especially when you, by nature, are a kind, empathetic person, which you clearly are. Better to remain empathetic than uncaring, I believe. You gave him an opening to talk about his dad, he didn't want to, and then you went on about your day. He knows you are there for him if he wants to talk, and you let it go after that--no need to prod him any more, as you know.
My H shut me out from his feelings after BD, but he has a history of shutting himself out from his feelings too. It hurts sometimes that he no longer wants to talk to me about his worries or confide in me, but I really don't think he is doing this with any of the new friends he has either. I could be wrong, of course, but I think it's too hard for him to begin to process any of what he's going through right now, so he avoids it. I guess, as in every other aspect of this, they are on their own timeline for when to begin to process their pain.
Happy Easter! You are such a kind and empathetic presence on these boards too. I hope you can also turn that back toward yourself.
Cardinal, Thanks for reaching out. Been out of the boards for a few days. Tried to respond on Saturday to some posts, but computer was acting funny. Maybe I needed a few days to reflect.
Thanks for saying I am empathetic and caring. I always thought I was, but am learning about my own internal workings. The more I look back at the last few years of my own life, the more I realize, much like HeartsBlessing, that I was going through my own midlife transition. Not a crisis necessarily as I didn't run away, even though I wanted to sometimes... but definitely through so many phases.
It's sad that it overlapped with some of H's because I think if I was more in touch with myself as I have grown into after the BD, I would have been able to see him enter the tunnel and possibly helped before it got to the affair. But we can't change what already is.
I am just working on being here now. Dealing with my own healing and getting a life. Learning to detach is still very hard. Dropping the rope is hard too. But I am trying. What else can we do, but take it one moment and one day at a time, right?
I'll journal again later. Right now, I am going to read others' posts and reply there. Want to help if possible.
I dont think we can help them in MLC or change the affair or their need to explore new possibilities
maybe if it were a mild transition, and we had awareness we could, but in full MLC
I dont believe anything we do can make a difference
Yes it helps when we let them be, and let them go
some may turn around especially if they are only on the edge of leaving
We tend to blame ourselves..if only we were this or that or we did this or that
Becoming a confident strong independent woman is our best bet
there is always a chance, they may see the light but even so, it will be a lot of work and very bumpy
stay safe!
Hi B6! As peacetoday said it is easy for us to look at what “we did or didn’t do” during this time. I think taking those thoughts and changing them into what would I like to improve about myself (if anything) or focusing on positive changes that we want to make FOR US and not for someone else becomes very important. You are so caring and empathic which makes putting our own feelings first difficult. A little self love is good for all of us!!! (((((((GROUP HUG))))))))
Your positivity and empathy shines through in your posts, B6. Trust yourself and your innate goodness. We all make mistakes in our interpersonal relationships, but I would bet that none of us intentionally hurt another person. If we inadvertently did so, and it was brought to our attention, we would feel bad and apologise. I would bet my life on it! Believe
that your motivations come from a good place, as do your actions as a result. In any other situation, you wouldn’t hesitate to comfort someone who was grieving, right? Honour yourself and don’t let your H, your situation, or adherence to DB principles change who you are inside.
I don't want to stop caring or showing my love and caring to him just because it's against DB rules. This is a very sad day. Even if he's still so far away from me, how can I not at least reach out?
So I did it. I can't be sorry I did. I love him and I care about him too. His pain, all of his pain, matters to me. I am going to be ok that it does and let my heart hurt that he keeps pushing me away. I did what my conscience knows had to be done. I offered love, kindess, physical affection (His main love language) and sympathy.
Believe - caring for our MLC spouse is not against any rules. And, the DB rules are not set in stone. Look at them more like tools, and you use the ones you need for repair or to rebuild. I remember very early on when I desperately wanted to reach out to my H after he had an injury. Some on this board just wanted me to let it alone, so I never checked up on him after the initial phone call from him reporting it. I regret it very much, because my real nature would have been to help, show concern, and follow-up. But, the old me was also the desperate fixer of our relationship, so I didn't want to fall into old patterns either. So, it's a fine line sometimes, and now I go with whatever my heart tells me to do. It's o.k. for you to do so also.
Your faith will get you through more than you can even comprehend right now. Hold tight to it, and let that faith grow even stronger.
Grace.
Hello B6
Grace is right about the DB rules. They are more like tools than rules.
We do use them as rules at the beginning since we are pretty mixed up and usually begging and pleading.
One of those “rules” is do more of what works and less of what doesn’t. Every MLCer is different, and yet they all more or less follow a similar script. You know your situation best. You offered kindness, carrying, and reached out.
His response is normal for someone in a crisis and emotionally troubled state. He can’t handle his own emotions, and he certainly cannot handle anyone else’s.
That’s the counterintuitive bit, realizing when something isn’t working, and then letting that be for a while. You can try again later, much later. He knows you care. He just needs lots of time.
As Grace stated, most of us here are fixer. It is a fine line to walk. H needs to fix himself, and you need to not manipulate. It’s tough.
Don’t worry, you didn’t screw up. You showed compassion on the one year after his Dad’s death. Of course he couldn’t really acknowledge that, but he heard you and knows you care. You did fine. (((B6)))
DnJ
Believe,
The DB is not just about trying to save your marriage, but to help you navigate the path that you are on. Nothing is set in stone. You do what works and what doesn't...well you set that aside. Just like the stages of MLC and the grieving process and the time lines...Nothing is set in stone.
No where does DB say that you can't care about your spouse/partner. You can love them from afar, treat them w/compassion and as always...did deeper for patience.
New Thread:
MLC newbie - new thread