here is my original post in Newcomers
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2600804#Post2600804thought i'd move it here since MLC big time.
Today i go to mediation. Planning how we separate. I am sick to my stomach, nervous, hurting and just want this nightmare to end.
good thing, D/s are back in school and were looking forward to it. So glad they are strong. Both have decided W , their mom, is not welcome as she is now. Hopefully that changes with time. Either reconciliation with the family or W finds a good place in her heart and mind to give them the attention they need even if we are separated for good.. Right now she is unable to manage that.
I think i am more nervous about seeing her. She will look great i know it. She is on such a high now with the OM that her past life just needs to be over. i know its only been 2 months.. impossible for me to be ok and not miss her.. ache for her. she is my drug and i am in major detox today.
wanted to message her about the D's. the first mediation meeting. we decided joint custody. 50/50
since then she has abused them verbally, neglected them and offered them alcohol. Missed both their birthdays. So much damage in a short time.
So today i will change the custody request to sole custody to me.
this will for sure make her monster. Maybe i'll get lucky and she will just hand them over to me. She knows that D-15 and D-13 have a say in court of where they want to live. Right now i am giving them a normal life, stability and more Love than anyone can give them.
wish me luck
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2583553#Post2583553Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
WOW. Just got an email. W is going through some tough times
-Her dad is in his 4th chemo treatment.
-Her Mom is on antidepressants and sleeping pills due to the separation
-Major bills unpaid.
-Car repairs over 1400$
-Job is going very bad.
-Says she is so stressed
bad thing - she introduced the OM to her dad. that crushed me.
Guess she is on the road downhill, backwards with no brakes.
Hi Irish. So very sorry for you and your girls. This crisis, if she is in one, is deeply hurtful.
First things first...take care of the financial part of this. I owe half of a $60,000 debt I knew nothing about. It is crucial that you stem the damn before it bursts.
Interesting that she sent you an email about all those things. They don't realize the destruction this all brings. Unfortunately, there isn't anything you can do to help her. Not to be callous, but, right now all that stuff is not your problem.
This is her journey and she needs to walk it alone. That is the best hope of her coming out the other side. Your job is to get out of the way of it and out of the way of her relationship with your d's. It is theirs to forge.
This is a tough road. Sometimes, like yours, they are in a frenzy to get out of the marriage...desperate to feel better. They don't know that the problem isn't the marriage, but rather that it is inside of them.
Keep looking after you and your daughters. They need you right now as their touchstone because she isn't capable.
Hang in there.
Hi Irish -
Number one - protect yourself financially. You need to do this for your kids.
Second - very sad what your wife texted you. But resist the temptation to fix it. she may just be using this information to try to con you into being more generous in the divorce. Don't fall for it.
You can (and should) continue to put your efforts towards your kids. Be kind but aloof when she contacts you with this kind of information. You can validate ("Gee, I'm sorry to hear that, you must be feeling pretty stressed") but DO NOT offer to help her out financially.
As for what's going on with your wife - aspects of it sound like classic MLC. But the fact that this occurred at almost exactly the same age as MIL's breakdown - definitely makes one wonder about biological causes as well. Does MIL have any serious chronic medical problems? No family history of Huntington's disease? Did your wife start taking any prescription medications in the past year? Diet pills? Pain meds? Antidepressants? Other meds? Did she have weight loss surgery? Does she have any history of addiction in the past? Has she had any true manic behaviors (like staying up all night)? Has she had intermittent depressive episodes in the past?
Try to talk her out of spending a boatload fighting the divorce in court. She'll never get custody of the kids after her recent behavior, and there just isn't that much else to argue over. try to get this done fast before she loses her job though.
Stick to the high road, set a good example for your kids, focus on them. I know it's hard top watch her careening down the cliff, but you have no control over that. Focus on preserving your assets from her erratic behavior, and providing your kids with a safe loving home.
Ellie
so i went to mediation. W showed up..looking less on a high than i thought.
usually when i see her its full make up, head high, better than everyone else attitude. Avoiding eye contact with me. New clothes.. real sexy.
today she was no make up, looked tired and sad, hair done up in a knot. tail between her legs..
she did have a huge tattoo on her forearm. NEVERMORE and the crow.
Edgar Allen Poe
also axes for ear rings.
She had a ring on her wedding finger but not the wedding ring i gave her since that one she left in the house.
I don't know if its an act to get pity her being so sad looking, but she didn't get it. Made me sit up straight, confident. I wore a new shirt and clean shaved.
W refused my offer on the house. Wants more money. said we need to sell it.
What she did agree on was custody of the D's. She gave it up just like that. Clearly still in her fog.
She asked my why the girls don't call her. I explained again calmly all that she did and said to them.
W said "all that didn't happen, but anyway you take the girls"
then the mediator told W that she would have to pay me child support. OUCH.. she monster'd right there. 288$ a month.
W said she cant afford to live. She's been out 1 month and hasn't paid one bill or any past bills for 3 months.
Her job just announced to her that they are putting her on a lower pay but higher commission. She is in sales. Her car is often at the office.. so in order to sell she needs to get out on the road. no commission for the past 2 months.
tonight she texted me that she can take a lower offer on the house if i still want to buy her out. I would have to agree to no child support for a year.
one more bill she doesn't have to pay. Why is it they can't pay bills.
next month with her salary cut in half.. she cant manage. She had to borrow money to pay rent for the month of September.
If i buy the house it can help her clear her debts.. all of them and she will blow the rest on her lifestyle.
if i sell the house.. it will take a few months due to my area and the economy. She will get in more debt that she can handle.
all joint accounts i have sole power over now since i am taking care and paying for the house.
everything else she has in her name alone.
should i let reality play for a little while longer. i'm sure the OM will help her . it will add stress to their perfect relationship.
Speaking of OM. i am so curious to see who it is. If i know my W . when she was younger she liked the messed up, tattoo covered, dope smoking, metal head bum.
Don't get me wrong. I use to be like that but i have grown up and still listen to iron maiden in the car.
I know .. who cares who he is.. move on with me.
she has now been text messaging me about a new deal. all about money to her.
i threw in some.
- Sorry that you are in that situation
- its tough i know.
- you chose this new life instead of working it out with your family
- i hope it gets better for you
am i missing something ,,. or this was a good day
I don't think you're missing anything. For many of them, it's about getting away - doesn't matter what they are running from. "It's about me, me, enough about you what about me, me."
So it makes sense that she's feeling pressure to sell the house if she thinks that will help her. By agreeing to a lower payment later, it shows she's under a lot of pressure to pay for the lifestyle.
It's nothing to be happy about. You may have noticed. I'm sure it's no fun being around her with all of that going on in her head.
The MOST important thing is the kids. And if you can, to keep the house. Why? Because that's an important part of the kids lives. Can you imagine being kicked out of your house and having a mother that doesn't seem to want you? Double-whammy sucker punch in the throat! It's also important for you, believe it or not.
You might want to consider a counter offer of a lower buy-out and no money for child support although keeping child support might be helpful for keeping her connected to the kids. You likely won't collect it anyway given what you say about it. Everything else is just "things" so those can be used as negotiating pawns if you are still haggling over them.
If you re-frame the whole set of questions to focus on the girls, how does your next steps look? I ask it that way, because it doesn't seem like you need her to help parent (it would be nice, but is what it is.)
I've been right where you are to some degree. I chose the house and pushed for 50/50 split with the kids. Mine were a little younger though, so it may not apply in your case. I did that on purpose knowing the pain it would cause me over the years. My ex remarried a few months after the divorce and let's just say that she didn't affair up. I wasn't happy about him near the kids, but he wasn't dangerous to them so I let it ride. He is unstable but the kids were old enough to deal with some help.
AJ
Re-read your post in newcomers. I could have just about written your post - you are not alone in what you're going through. It gets better, but be sure to take care of yourself. You most likely cannot help her while she deals with whatever she is going through. She has to want help, and you can't force that.
Be kind though. Be quiet. And protect your kids and yourself. You'll be tested.
AJ
Check with your attorney about bargaining away the child support. The state might not LET you give away the child support (after all, they have an interest in seeing to it that those children are supported and don't end up on state aid.)
I am so sorry you are going through this.
Oh Boy Irish, you're really going through it and I'm so sorry. But I'm pleased to read that you are dealing with things well and getting some good advice. Your interactions with your W sound like just what the situation needs.
It is hard to understand the lack of interest in your kids - but often the person in MLC just wants to drop their whole former life for their shiny new one. As others have said, the best you can do is be there for your kids - be their rock. Their Mum's R with them is hers to own.
As others have said - step back, deal kindly but firmly with business, protect you and yours, say little, have compassion and focus on your own life.
This will likely take a while and it won't be pretty. If you are looking for other threads to read, Cali is a good one. You may also want to have a look at RD in newcomers - a fellow Irish guy.
Good luck with everything my friend. I think you are doing well in tough circumstances.
S xx
Today, D's are at school. very happy to be there.
i get a text from W. its a picture of my house with several boxes and items dropped off in front of it. She says its the D's things she took when she moved out.
W says since she gave up the D's no need for these items.
then she tries to sell me other items. Patio furniture. wants 1500$ . i said sure. but to deduct it from what she owes me.
she says no. Cash only. she owes several people money. So not only has she not paid any bills, credit cards full and car loan unpaid..she owes people money.
i replied. ask your boyfriend for money. since that is not my job anymore. NO REPLY
makes me sick to my stomach thinking the hole she is digging for herself. Pressure with money is going to hit hard next month.
i'm worried this is going too fast and too destructive that she will try to hurt herself due to the damage she is doing , mostly to the D's.
should i reach out to her sister, she is on my side. . update her and maybe she will contact her mom ( on W's side but is seeing reality`slowly )..it's out of my reach to watch or help W.
if she calls me and needs help to pick her up because she is hurt or thinking of it.... i will. Not saying that i will fold and let her back in our lives only to get settled and take off again. Still care for her so i wont just avoid her cry out.
The OM must not be all that. since she is in debt. if he was a knight in shinning armor i`m sure he would help her and she wouldn't`be crying me a river because of her debts. He is probably in worst shape than her.
Wow - her mom rented her the apartment, she's only been out for a month, and she still has no money? I know her salary got cut, but seriously - what do you think she's been spending her money on? Have the frequent hairdresser visits and the tattoo drained all her accounts? Do you suspect drugs?
I would let her sister know your concerns about her, and then let her family handle helping her. You can be kind, and you can pick her up if she's sounding suicidal or crashing, but I definitely would not step in and rescue her financially (except to buy her out of the house, but she doesn't get that money until the appropriate legal divorce settlement papers and title transfer have been signed - you don't want to give her that money and then have her take you to court demanding more stuff in the divorce.)
Sounds to me like she's gonna hit rock bottom faster than most - that might be a good thing. The longer the fantasy lasts, the harder it is to wake up.
I completely agree with KML in the above post - only help if suicidal AND asked. Otherwise, you are interfering and meddling.
I disagree with the sister, but that's your call. Family has a way of knowing but not knowing and it's likely part of the issue, ya know?
i'm worried this is going too fast and too destructive that she will try to hurt herself due to the damage she is doing , mostly to the D's.
should i reach out to her sister, she is on my side. . update her and maybe she will contact her mom ( on W's side but is seeing reality`slowly )..it's out of my reach to watch or help W.
Again, I could have written the above. I had that concern and reached out to her school counselor (she was in grad school at the time and they had a psych on staff). I can say it didn't go well in the sense she blamed me. It went well in the sense that it gave her a new target - me. Talked with her brother - his thought? She has to figure it out. Meh. Family.
While you are considering those things, consider what you need to do to protect you and the girls. Your W is a grown woman who can make her own decisions. And if you interfere with that process, you risk keeping her from her consequences. She needs to experience those consequences and the ones after that.
You can't change her. You can't stop her. i.e. you can't go around this experience - only through it. With dignity, grace, and the wisdom to know when to be quiet and let things play out while ensuring the collateral damage is lessened with you and the kids.
I can't help but think of the story of her mother. You saw how that turned out. Seems to be a repeat of sorts. But since your W is her own person, and you are not her father, she has a shot at figuring it out with a different outcome than her mom. It won't be easy for her. That's a powerful pull.
Prioritize your next steps amigo. You only have so many hours in the day and so much you can even do. Most of that revolves around your daughters (who desperately need you) and you. What you have left you will need for you and rebuilding your life, while keeping the lights on (work, house, paperwork, etc.)
The best thing I learned during that period of my life? I can't change others. Only me. That sounds trite, but think about it. The world spins. The people in it do what they do. Your action/reaction to it and how you perceive it is all on you. When you learn that, you learn to let go of the things you cannot control.
And that's freeing beyond what you expect.
I had made the assumption she wasn't coming back. I decided I would be kind, graceful, and if possible dignified. My ex did what she was going to do anyway. I see that more clearly now than I did then.
KML is right, the faster they run the better. It has a way of hastening the inevitable which seems to be important to your W. Let her. Get out of the way. Don't try to help any more than you absolutely need to. She doesn't want it and it won't help.
If you can help with the kids relationships with her - do so. i.e. don't prevent it and do NOT talk poorly about their mom. Stick to the facts. That's important to the kids. Very.
You got this. You have a great perspective already. But formulate that plan so you can see the future direction you are headed. There's always time for readjustment if needed.
AJ
Ok I did talk to W's sister. Was shocked by what she told me,
SIL and MIL saw each other for the first time since this all started. MIL has now changed her opinion about the situation. MIL has cut off funds to W. W begged her for more money. MIL knows W is off the chart.
W did go to see her father in the hospital with the OM. Reason she went. Was to got money from him. Even asked for gas money. So I guess it's an affair down . Major one if he can't put 20$ in W car.
Drugs I hope not but with the amount of $$ she spent instead of paying bills .., has to be.
This OM is probably using her for her money.
What do I do now. They will be so hungry for $ .
I won't help her. No way.
Will hold off any buy out of the house or sale.
I think her world is crashing , but if drugs are involved and sex ,..., well she'll spin here for a while.
Suicide ,I fear this since she's done so much so fast. I pray this isn't the outcome.
When am I going to wake up from the nightmare
Did she dabble in drugs when she was younger? Has she been prescribed any narcotics or ADHD drugs in the last 2 years? Do you see anything in the bank statements, credit cards or phone records prior to bomb drop that would explain this?
I think you're wise, for her sake, not to rush to resolve the house issue and let her piss the money away.
Is there any history of bipolar disorder in the family? Did she have mood swings or depression episodes in the past?
Hi KML
No never did drugs when she was younger or older while with me. No prescription medication either. but W wasn't a drinker either and she does a lot of that now getting drunk etc
W has a cousin that is bi polar
Both SIL and MIL had a similar crisis at 38
SIL is a nurse and her co workers and herself realized something was off and she got tested , hormones and chemical imbalance, SIL got treated for months and avoided all this,
MIL did the same as W and destroyed her family, W is repeating what her mother did to her.
Bank records not anymore. Her desperate account.
Hi Irish. I know it is so hard to watch someone you love and the mother of your children on such a destructive path.
AJ's post was spot on. Read that a few times.
The truth is that you cant help people who don't want help. Hard to get your mind around that I know. She will become very angry if you continue to try to help.
What you do now is take care of you and your kids and protect your finances.
Your job is to cause no harm to the relationship between her and your daughters. The relationship is theirs to forge or not.
I knew that when I looked back on this part of my life, I wanted to see that I acted in a way that was true to who I was.
So be sure that whatever actions you take aren't punitive. That matters. Act with dignity and strength. That matters, too.
The rest is out of your hands. You have to let her walk her journey. It's the only hope she has of coming out the other side. If the crisis is interrupted, it can come back stronger and more forceful.
Stay on your path. Focus on you and your children.
How's your GAL going? Try anything new? Don't forget to rest, eat, exercise and pray if you are so inclined.
Well, with that history, it's possible it's some kind of a manic episode. 38 would be unusually young for menopause, but not unthinkable. She won't hear any of this from you, but perhaps you can encourage SIL to discuss this with her.
Of course, given her previous affair, it's always possible this is just MLC. But even though MLCers can behave in unpredictable ways, your wife's behavior seems extreme.
Btw thyroid problems and celiac disease and other autoimmune diseases are more common in family trees with bipolar disorder.
Yes very extreme
SIL is cut off from W but is available if W reaches out to her.
I'm staying ou of the way of her train wreck.
I will only answer her if she says she needs help me mentally and not financially
Looks like next month will be rough. W lost all her support from her family MIL
Salary cut down to half. OM is clearly using her and will probably get frustrated that no more money from her.
Just don't want to think about what he will make her do for money. Probably sell all her jewelry and furniture she took. Since she's never in her Appartment and can't pay for it I'm sure she'll move in with him and do a midnight move to avoid her landlord.
I pray for her.
I'm in a good place, great support here and in my life, I have my girls and they are so strong, my house, dog, health and my job. Speaking of my job the teams I have in my 2 offices are so supportive and they fill in for me when I need to get out.
What do I do now. They will be so hungry for $ .
I won't help her. No way.
When am I going to wake up from the nightmare
I know it's not pretty to think about, but be absolutely sure she has no way to get money from you. i.e. no life insurance policies that are payable to her, the house doesn't go to her, etc. i.e. take away any reason a desperate, unhinged person would want to harm you to get money. Get what I'm saying?
AJ
I hear you loud and clear. Will make those changes tomorrow morning.
I'll let her know of the changes made so it's clear.
Don't think it would come to that.... But you never know what they could do in their state of mind. Or be manipuled by the OM.
W texted yesterday saying she is having an awesome day, excited to play golf at a sponsored event with work. I guess she gas her happy mask on today.
D's got a text " miss you girls, love you. Mommy is here for you."
My oldest replied to her.. Stop texting us.
Funny how W always texts the girls when we go to mediation and I mention to her that she never texts the girls. Since I will get custody, she realizes that she has to pay me. Since it's all about $$ she is trying to get them back.
I'll see if it's sincere her attempt. Maybe she does miss them . But it's funny that she texts them after getting one from me asking for my girls rings and the child support payments ( 2 months) to be mailed to me.
Ok I might of made a mistake. D's were upset about all of a sudden receiving texts from W.
W texts them when they are in class. Upsets them and interrupts their day.
I decide to call W. I ask her to respect the D's when they ask her to stop texting.
W says email me saying that if she stops texting this has no implications to her by neglecting the D's.
Wow . I figured she'd say she won't stop , loves the girls, will do anything to have them back in her life. But no. She sees it as a case against her for bad parenting.
I also added on the message when the girls are ready, they will reach out to her.
I will update her on any important issues about he D's
She replied thanks , she loves then so so much and misses them. Etc
Also cc'd the mediator .
Guess she wants to look good.
This was all probably a mistake on my side
A mistake? Not sure about that.
But you would be wise to not have contact where you can. Next time, instead of calling W, block the number from kids phones.
You can see the manipulation (to be fair, at least as you report it) that is happening, right?
If you're right, and it's all about money, then no contact for any reason is far better. Especially until mediation is over and the dust settles. You'll see what she's really all about at that time.
So let's see if a recap helps:
Her mom cut her off. She is running as fast as she can. She lost custody of her kids. She is broke as heck. She's going through a divorce. Her kids don't want to talk to her.
Seems a recipe for disaster and will do what she can to try and regain control of anything she can.
Distance and no contact. Block numbers, email, etc. No more contact - that's a lot less stress for you because you are obviously worried about making a "mistake" of some sort.
You will need to get to the point where you no longer care what she says, thinks or does. But that's not until after the mediation and paperwork settle. I get that. Too much at stake for the kids.
What's on the agenda for today?
AJ
Hi AJ
Always good to hear from you.
Manipulation yes, I see it more and more. Especially about $
Tugging at my soft spot for her. Telling me about all her debts and parent issues.
I will in no way support her and her new lifestyle, I have already told her this twice.
Hopping she takes this added stress out on the OM.
Last night I went to the local pub. Me and W use to go there a lot.
I know the owner, when I walked in he saw me but did not acknowledge me like he use to. Couldn't even look at me.
I've met a few people like this since all this has started . Some told me after that W portrayed me as a bad person and her as a victim. They saw right through her mask.
I don't really care about some of these people judging me because they don't really know me.
I still had a great time out.
Today I'm shoppong with D-15. Need a few things around the house that W took when she moved out.
W hasn't slept in her Appartment since she moved out. After week 1 she met OM and I guess she would rather be at his place than be alone. She had told me recently she can't stay alone as she has too much going on in her head.
I found the meaning of her new tattoo. NEVERMORE by Edgar Allen Poe
he assumes the bird might be able to answer some of his cosmological questions. But it keeps answering 'nevermore' - i.e. you'll never stop being depressed, never see Lenore again, never get on with your life
She is gone to a very dark place. Made me think of a post on her FaceBook page2 months ago " I hate it when the voices in my head go silent, you never know what those FCKr's are planning"
With messages like that and the tattoo ... She is struggling. Maybe a cry for help ... Or just crazy.
Met up with someone I haven't seen in years. He's was shocked to hear my story and how fast it progressed.
He's compairing it to his own.
His W dropped the bomb on him over 2 years ago.
My W dropped the bomb on me 3 months ago.
We compared notes. Where his W is now is exactly where my W is.
His did similar things but at a turtles pace and not as extreme. Mine is zipping through this and with all the crap she's created... Will be out of money if not already. MIL cut her off , she owes several people money, creditors are about to call her.
His just lost her job but has a huge reserve in the bank to continue her lifestyle.
Both don't see their kids at all by choice of the kids since they are of age to decide for themselves. Teens between 13 and 17
Both W are with OM
Mine is more on the dark side with her new tattoo and choice of earings.
His dresses more like a street worker.
Why is it that one is going through this so fast?
Is it because I agreed for my W to leave so fast. And I went NC.
His W stayed in the house and cheated while she lived with him for over a year .
Talked everyday and she abused him financially and to be the babysitter while she went out and played.
Does this stretch out the process?
Makes her eat cake too. Mine had not a crumb.
My D's stayed away from their mom when they realized she was not the same person. She was narcissistic in her behaviour and had less than 0 patience for them. Also W scared the hell out of them. So 2 months she has no kids.
His kids it took a year to realize this.
I know there is no exact timeline to follow and each case is different.
Maybe my W has another issue for her madness. Maybe it's not MLC
The outrageous things she's done and said.. I don't see that in many posts.
Sure there are similarities but not to the extreme of my W.
Irish,
It's okay to talk to others and do the comparison...but each individual is unique, their childhoods are unique and their coping skills are unique to them. Some move along very quickly and others don't. Each situation can be similar and yet different.
I suspect that your wife has been quietly in crisis long before she dropped the bomb, i.e., 18-24 months to my way of thinking. She was gradually entering her journey and you didn't notice some of the changes taking place. Many of us didn't notice the subtle changes until after they flew the coop and started acting out.
Oh, I can tell you this, there are many who have had their spouses act out in the extreme. Mine was the number one extreme case back in the day. Here are just a few of the things he did: shaved his hair off, bought and played with little matchbox cars on the floor (as if he were 4), changed his taste in food and drinks, talked the "hip" language, music taste changed, taste in clothes began to change, took quite a bit of time getting dressed, started chewing wads of bubblegum, hugged the side of the bed (we had a queen size), came home with scratches and bruises and couldn't tell me how he got them, lied about his whereabouts on his days off work, gaslighted me about money and other objects that went missing, got his ear pierced, and the last but not least one that is very famous here is the plastic Easter Egg (worth less than a couple of dollars). He brought two policemen to my home to get the rest of his junk and wanted the plastic Easter Egg is mother gave me. Now this egg was going to go in the trash unless I took it.
So, yes, there are some that really do go to the extreme during the crisis. They have to go back in time to the place where they were emotionally stunted and face those things that stunted them. They then grow up from there (hopefully). They will experiment and some of their experiments will raise your eye brows. BTW, they do love to spend money and don't care when they bill collectors come knocking.
BTW, your wife is doing the normal things, i.e., tattoos and earrings. Any toe rings? Any additional piercings?
Come, sit on the curb w/the rest of us. We are serving up popcorn and your drink of choice while watching the MLCers parade on by.
I know this is a difficult time for you and your family, but you've got to find a way to keep the focus on you and your family and leave your wife in God's hands. She truly needs to grow up and it will be done on her time and by her own clock (which is far slower than ours).
I think to add to what Job mentions (and you really should listen to Job; you will now or you will later) while you can compare and know that each is different in their own way, you need to see the forest for the trees. You are not the cause. You didn't start this fire.
Neither can you put it out (can't fix it). That strength in numbers thing? That's here. You can see many here that have "similar" stories.
Last night I went to the local pub. Me and W use to go there a lot.
I know the owner, when I walked in he saw me but did not acknowledge me like he use to. Couldn't even look at me.
I've met a few people like this since all this has started . Some told me after that W portrayed me as a bad person and her as a victim. They saw right through her mask.
I don't really care about some of these people judging me because they don't really know me.
You'll find that although almost all of them "know" what's really going on to some degree, many don't know how to handle it. For those that don't know, they'll think you two just split amicably and that's that. For those that can see through it, they likely have "mlc eyes" either having been touched by it in the past or being an alumni.
Most of what I found was that except for two or three of them, nobody bought the bs. That was one reason for the new set of friends and ditching the old set.
The awkward stares and people that don't get it? That's annoying at first. After a while, you see it for what it is - their way of dealing with it.
Even now, 8 years on, I get people that are surprised to hear what really happened. Or they won't look at me if I see them in a store as if I have leprosy and they might catch it. In the past month, I've had both happen with old friends.
A lot like MLC itself, it's not about me the same as it is not about you. Just like with the weather, you can't control it. You can watch it. You can see it. You can get shelter from it. You can rage at it. Heck, you can even by entertained by it. But you can't change it and you didn't create it or cause it. At best some can marginally influence if they really try hard and are willing to get bludgeoned in the process.
It still does what it does.
If it makes you feel any better, MLCrs remember very little of what they say or do, later. Kind of a self-protecting mechanism I think. I suggest you take that for what it's worth and remember very little of what she says or does during the next few years. Rather, deal with things as you have to, as they come up and otherwise just let them roll to the floor. She will likely, at some phase, try to "punish" you or lash out in some way. Best way to handle that is to not be a target in this case.
AJ
Good morning job
Yes she did have days where I looked at her and questioned her comments or actions.
When I think of it it goes back 3 years. I guess it just needed the magic mix or stress and her fathers cancer diagnosis to set it all off full time.
I am sitting back. Hardest thing now is seeing her ruing her life. The OM is a bum. No money and using W for her cash. Which is gone. Their only hope is if I buy her out of the house. Which I won't just yet and she seems to not duscuss or answer any of the questions I have about that. So it's on hold until she does.
Last contact was about the D's last Friday. The next contact is at the end of this month in mediation.
I am NC...I am GAL. Loving my D's . Working on me.
I've been approached by some women that know my situation and that I'm single.
I get the " she doesn't know what she left" , " such a great guy" , " she'll regret it for sure "
Dating now is not an option. I will go have dinner and movies, or a drive with someone to enjoy life. Romantically envolvement is not an option. I still believe W will crash soon and I will be there for her.
Won't go back with her, but will be there. Help her, rebuild relationship between her and the D's ( but that is her work to do)
If anything is left and we do reconnect , then I won't say no. If I meet someone else who I connect with ... Then W lost me forever.
Hi AMJ
I like your view on what the others think.
I seem to think and assume for them . I'm not psychic if I was I wouldn't be here.
So maybe he was uncomfortable and just checked out to avoid the discussion.
Who knows
I have to learn to not assume. This is one of my faults on me to fix me list.
Not for the W but for me. I struggle inside with this and torture myself in assuming and inventing scenerios.
Ex: when wife told me she was with OM. I assumed be as a local successful business man, with $ and she would be in real Lalaland.
My mind was racing, she'd be travelling, buying all she desires, happy....kids would think he's great.... It tortured me inside.
Then reality . He's a bum. Has no money to put in her car for gas, so she has to ask her dying dad for a loan because she was cut off from her mother.
Her choice of tattoos reflect her choice in a OM.. Total affair down.
I felt great... But was angry at myself for wasting my energy in thinking different.
It hit me then. I need to fix this in myself .
I know she's back at her 16-18 age phase. A rocker, rebelling against her mom, dated bad boys, no future....
Thanks for your replies. Always a pleasure reading your guidance and experiences.
Irish,
It's all about them, they are broken individuals who really and truly need to find themselves. They need to heal those old wounds and unfortunately, they go about it the wrong way.
As you travel your path, you will discover that we are all fixers. We want to fix them and help them heal, but we can't. We are planners and when they throw us w/the bombs, we feel utterly lost for a while because there is no planning and/or assuming w/them. So, what do you do? You work on yourself. You take a good, long, hard look in the mirror and then you decide what you need to do to survive. Make a list of those things that you would like to improve upon for yourself and start working on them. Make a list of those things that you've put off doing and start doing them. One by one and when the list is done, you'll be proud of yourself. Also, as a reminder, any changes that you make, they must become permanent. If your wife suspects that you've made them just to get her back, she'll know and will be cautious around you. So, when she tests you and you don't take the bait...one step in the right direction.
I want you to understand that you didn't break her, therefore you can't fix and/or control anything that she does. Her relationship w/her children is something that she will need to figure out how to mend and go from there.
As for the bum, yep...many of them do affair down because that's just where they think that they should be in life right now. I could give you my entire story, but it would take many postings and then you would sit there and just shake your head. Some of the stuff that my xh did didn't make sense to me and here's an example of something he said to me and it certainly didn't add up one bit. One time he sent me a check for a bill he owed on. He told me to cash the check and then send him the money. Now, does that make sense? Wouldn't it have been just as easy for him to go to the bank and cash the check and keep the money himself? No, what I think he wanted to do was have a trail indicating that he had paid me for his bill and then wanted me to give him some money. Crazy isn't it?
You have to think about how messed up their worlds are. Their brains are a jumble of broken and tangled wires and they are operating purely on emotions during the crisis. Some can't sleep and are actually afraid to go to sleep because the guilt comes creeping in when their worlds are quiet. You can't rationalize w/them and AJ is correct, they may not remember what they've said or done and this happens quite frequently. They become very forgetful too.
Dig deep for patience and I have an order in for more patience shovels. Keep the focus on you and your family. This is not a sprint, but a marathon. The NC is for you and as you travel the path, you'll become wiser and stronger and will come to realize it's all about her. It wouldn't have mattered if she was married to someone else or even single because she was destined to have a crisis. I am very sorry that you are having to deal w/this.
Hi Job
Again thanks for the wisdom
Yes I'm NC for me.
I feel so much better as the days pass. When I see or talk to her I get all jumbled.
Today no news is good news. I feel calm tonight. No stress and my D's had an amazing day .
Invited my Brother over with his kids and they all enjoyed my pool and spa.
Back to work and school tomorrow. I feel it will be a good week for me.
Lots of reading here tonight.
Praying for you all to find peace and for our MLC to get out of the fog safe
Seriously, re-read Job's posting to you. I can tell you I've been very grateful and helped by Job's postings (along with many others who share the same walk.)
Something I ran across a while back and was noodling a bit to see if it fits.
As for the bum, yep...many of them do affair down because that's just where they think that they should be in life right now.
One of the thoughts I was reading about was related to this. It was more of the "why" they affair down sort of thing and seemed to make a little sense to me. Not sure it will for you, but the idea was that they look for a catalyst relationship to release the pent up frustrations and anger etc. We tend to see it as affair down, but it can be more than that in the sense they need a particular type of person.
Heck, at the time I laughed at how hard it was for my starter spouse to find fault with me. That says volumes about me in that I was so contorted by then I couldn't see straight. In a lot of ways, that wasn't the real me. I had lost my confidence and became the image of what she wanted. What was me, was the person trying to save the relationship and doing whatever it took. What wasn't, was what I became and my lack of the bigger picture. Not that people didn't try to tell me.
My ex basically (from the outside) married the first guy that didn't tell her no. She became the 16 year old rebellious opposite of herself in every way. It became bizarre and like a train wreck in slow motion, very hard to look away.
To reiterate what Job mentions, make that list. Fix the things in you that YOU believe need fixing. Things that you don't like about you. Do those things as if she'll never come back. One at a time, do them. Don't stop for a breath. Don't stop to see how you're doing. Just do those things. Fix them. For you. For your family. And realize that what she does, she does. What happens after you do those things? Who knows, but I do know that you'll be better for it. I guarantee it.
If your W is lucky, the new guy is a catalyst. The catalyst that she needs to fix herself. If you ever cared for her, you'll want her to not be broken. That's a gift in this life to be sure.
Fix you and worry about the rest after that happens. The world will be a very different place when you get there. Or rather, you'll see it differently and that's important.
While you do those things, the NC Job talks about will be very helpful for you. It will help you get perspective on things. The patience? Critical and there's a test or more that will come up when you least feel ready. Make it your default reaction to anything.
If it helps, post the list. We'll keep you honest.
My $0.02,
AJ
Why is it that one is going through this so fast?
Is it because I agreed for my W to leave so fast. And I went NC.
His W stayed in the house and cheated while she lived with him for over a year .
Does this stretch out the process?
Makes her eat cake too. Mine had not a crumb.
Hey Irish. That up there ^^^ doesn't serve you well, right? There are a lot of reasons it doesn't. Every crisis has a baseline of similarities, but, they are all different. That's because every person is and because each person has a different past. How they have a crisis depends on all of that and on how they cope.
When you question your actions, it can keep you stuck some. It wouldn't have mattered what you did, this crisis was destined to happen. Nothing you could have said or done could have stopped it.
The way for you to get through this is to accept what is. I know that is a really hard concept, but, it's the way to peace.
So, let go of worrying about whether you agreeing to her leaving affected this. It didn't. This was a journey she was meant to take. It takes as long as it does. You do best to get out of the way of it.
There are many extremes in how they act. Mine was a particularly crazy one. Some of the things he said and did are legendary around here.
It is natural for people to try to figure stuff out, but, in this case, you can't. MLC is something we cant understand unless we have one.
So try really hard not to analyze where she is at and what it means and how long this will be. You will just make yourself crazy.
I know it's so difficult to watch someone you love struggling so much. You are showing your love by understanding that she needs to do this in order to come out the other side.
Hi AJM you 0.02$ is always welcome
uRWorthy ...
It wasn't that I was feeling like I could of prevented it or changed it but more like
If there was a difference from zero contact and letting them live their experience without the interruptions of weekly visits, talks, or living together but separately
I know I am lucky the girls are old enough and have decided on staying here and avoiding the drama and pain that is now their mother.
Tonight had a great night with the girls. Movie night at home. If anyone has Cody,it beats out Netflix anytime
D's also brought up their mom for the first time in days.
They are wondering if they should delete her on FaceBook.
When they are online they see her online, she has never reached out to them via this.
Funny thing last week in mediation W said the D's block her. Not true. She goes on there and dies her thing without seeing her D's
I told them not to but it's up to them.
SIL messaged me. W only contacts MIL when she needs $ . MIL is not helping her anymore so NC from W
Sad this happens.
Felt like texting W "come home"
But i know that's a no no.
Continue NC for me.
I have the next 4 weekends planned. Summer is far from over
Hope everyone had a good labour day weekend
Said I would pop over to the dark side of the street to check up.
Seems like things are developing fast, very fast.
I am relieved your Ds are with you.
I am no MLC expert, so you are in sage hands. One tiny observation on the Fins, your W isn't gambling is she?
Hugs
V
Hi V
So glad to hear from you
Gambling no. Not even Loto tickets , but who's to say the new W isn't at the casino now.
Yes, she's going fast.
I got the school supplies, school fees invoices and other invoices related to the girls
I messaged her today about her helping out.
No reply.
Guess she didn't get the memo on child support.
She will have to deal with it one day.
Hope you are well V ( hugs back)
Irish
Irish,
The MLCer tends to spend money and sometimes it's on silly stuff. Money slips through their hands like water and you are sitting their scratching your head trying to figure out how to pay for school supplies while she's off having fun. If you do get a response, she'll probably tell you she doesn't have any money or can pay very little towards the supplies.
They do become the "mirror image" or the exact opposite of the people that we knew and loved. I sometimes reference them as becoming pod people and flying through space on the Mother Ship because they become so different.
You are a good father and I really do hope that things will settle down for you and your girls. It's tough when the children have to see their parents acting out, i.e., probably even younger than the girls are.
Keep up the good work and try to keep the focus on you and your girls. Try to think of your wife gone on a very long vacation and she doesn't have any way to communicate for a while.
Again, I'm so sorry that this has happened to you and your family.
Hi Job
Sad thing is I know she won't answer and has no money left
Me bad in sending the message. Sign of weakness on my behalf
It's like a 5 minutes urge to text her ... Then I do it... Regret it
Glad she didn't answer . Only pushes me closer to my goal of turning her off.
I'm lucky in a way she cut off my D's.... Sorry our D's
NC going dark should be a breeze. I just have to learn to count to 10000 or go for a bike ride with no phone when those urges arise.
I was addicted to her so detox from the W is tough.
Cheers !!
Keep copies of all expenses and all emails sent to W. If you do end up divorced, these expenses should come out of her share of the house equity. Document document document.
Irish M
I am doing better. I am well out of my league on MLC.
I do give great hugs, and can pop in to give a smile.
These wonderful lads and lasses in this Forum are great at this MLC, my challenge is systematic abuse which is different because the other enters the R with abuse in their heart. MLC is the mirror image switch.
V
Irish,
You did the right thing in texting her about the school expenses. You need the paper trail so that you have proof that you did contact her about the girls.
I agree...keep copies of all text and email messages, bills, expenses, etc. that you pay for so that you have it available if you need to provide it at the time of a divorce.
You are doing great. MLC is not an easy path to navigate for us...but you are doing well thus far. Keep up the good work!
Hey Irish. I don't think you did anything wrong in texting her with that info, but, I feel as if you didn't feel comfortable with it.
So let's look at it a bit. She does need to contribute to the costs of your d's. I understand she can't, but, that isn't really your problem.
I think the reasons you feel uncomfortable are that subconsciously you want any kind of contact. In the beginning, we are hopeful that we may say or text something and that may be the thing that gets them to think.
I also think you feel badly for her and that you asking for money is like rubbing salt in the wound.
The truth is that there isn't anything you can say or do to help her through this. There aren't any magic words or any amount of guilt that will do it.
The way that you honor your marriage is by allowing her to work her way through this.
So, try really hard to maintain NC as best you can. If you have to contact her regarding the girls, make sure it is absolutely necessary.
And while it's hard to think in terms of having paper trails and all of that, it is absolutely necessary for your future and your daughters future.
Please protect yourself financially. As long as you are married, you can be responsible for half her debt.
I like the things you are going to do when you feel the urge to contact her. Whatever it takes, yea?
uRWorthy
You hit it right on with several of your points
I do feel bad for her. Money issues.
If I calculated all the additional expenses and the bills I paid before she left.
House property taxes ... It adds up to a substantial amount.
Now adding child support on top of it.
Don't want to send her an invoice she is already under a lot of strain,
I will save it all for mediation.
I am NC now.
She can text the girls to try to repair that issue but it's all up to her.
They made it clear to her to leave them alone.
If she pushes it will only send them further away from her.
Her text today wasn't about her missing them, wanting to see them or anything real
It was just a text saying she's there if they need to talk.
Financially I am protected.
Daughters hit me with questions last night.
Why why why .... Did she leave us, doesn't she care, did she change,, is she angry ....
Tough night but I let them talk and they pretty much answered their questions with each other.
They have hope and they believe she will come back.
Again I told them that it doesn't matter my relationship with W but the mother / daughter bond will come back.
I know this is unsure, I can't predict it or force it.
W has the control of that.
Wanted so bad to text her about the D's feelings. Again I would be wasting my time
I did go out with a new friend last night. She's nice, I'm not getting involved emotionally but it passed the time and always good to be with new people.
Weird thing happened today. Then again what's not weird about all of this.
My F came over and when he left he spotted W parked on the corner street. W was parked so she can see the front of the house
as F drove by she waved to him. He wasn't sure it was her so he circled back. W then sped off and ran 2 stop signs and raced away.
What's the reason for that. I was having a yard sale. Did she want to see what we were selling. She has already taken all of her things plus the items she chose in mediation. What was also weird. She was in a different car than her own. I guess to be not noticed by us.
Makes me nervous to leave te kids alone too long
Irish,
It's not strange at all for the spouse to sit outside or drive by the house. They want to see their "past" and, of course, to see what you and the children are doing. It's their curiosity to see how things are going. In some cases, this is very typical of the MLCer. Mine use to drive by quite often and other times, when I was at work, sit in the driveway. He also did this at my parents' home as well. It does give you the creeps at first, but then you learn to just let it go.
How did the yard sale go? Were you able to get rid of some stuff and make a little bit of change in the process?
Hi Job
The sale went well. Had a few things that I wanted to get rid of long ago.
Actually the weather was bad but had more people drop in than before.
If W wants to see how we are doing all she has to do is knock on the door.
Sad I cant tell her this because it may upset her. Tell her we miss her as want her to come home. The D's will forgive her, they've told me so. They just want it to be on our terms and not my W's
3 months and a couple days into this and seeing her distruction hurts so much.
I keep a lot from my D's. Being neglected and insulted by Their M is enough for them to know.
All the other crap is just side effects and symptoms.
I keep a lot from my D's. Being neglected and insulted by Their M is enough for them to know.
Do they even "need" to know that much? What do they get out of that?
I'm not there and don't know what they hear about that, but generally I wonder if anything they hear about their mom is of much help at this point. Or if it would be better for them to think of things as between mom and dad so they can have their own relationship with their mom?
It's hard to keep things from inquisitive kids that are affected by these things. It really is. But I know from my own experience that the more I kept from them the better. It gave them time and space and a chance to deal with things at their pace without taking on more than they needed to. As a parent, I made it a goal to protect them from it as much as possible. Some came through. And over the years, they observed more. I made it a point to not lie to them, but I didn't volunteer anything either. I also did not tell them all the details. Just direct answers to direct questions.
I know my ex didn't do the same. Nor did OM. I know that hurts my kids. And I see no value in that and I see no way that will help them.
Could just be me though.
AJ
Hi AJ
Being neglected, lied to, insulted and hurt they saw that themselves first hand.
I didn't have to say anything to them.
They know how much I tried to help them and their M have a relationship with each other after BD
W failed every time and wants nothing to do with them. Only when it makes her look bad in mediation does she attempt to contact them.
She is so into her new life we are not.
Parking outside my home for how long I don't know.
I want to tell W all tu damage she has done to her family . Since this has started I have never voiced this to her. Not once have I got mad. I kept it all good and allowed her to do what she is doing.
At some point I will lose it and write her a very real email .
Irish,
If you write an email to your wife, then delete it once you've gotten it written. Why? Because she's not going to read a lengthy posting because her mind is scrambled and she can't focus on anything lengthy. Listen, she knows what she's doing is wrong, but she had to do this right now because they have a fear of mortality. She's operating on emotions and you can't rationalize w/an emotional hot mess. Pointing fingers at what she is or isn't doing will not make her straighten up and be a better mother. If anything, she will feel even more guilty and stay away.
What I would suggest that you do is sit down w/your daughters and just tell them that she's having some issues and needs to work things out for herself. If they ask questions, try to be as honest as you can be w/o bashing your wife to them.
Be the best father that you can be and for now, you are going to have to be "both" parents to your girls. Yes, it's difficult, but at the end of the day, your girls love you and know that you are there for them. Leave your wife out there to twist in the wind.
Daughters called W because they were worried about her
They knew about her stalking the house and driving away like she was running from a tax audit made them scared for her safety. She drove irrationally like that a month ago with them in the car.
She answered . She said she wanted to have lunch one day.
They asked her if she still had her apartment she got last month.
She said nothing.
She repeated that she didn't leave them she left their father.me
My D15 said no you left us.
D15 asked of she was living with her boyfriend. She answered yes
D15 asked "so you left us for him." She replied no ,.. You'll understand one day.
D15 hung up frustrated and deleted her from her FaceBook
D was so upset I heard her from outside .
I was cutting the grass
I ran In to console her. Huge tears down her cheeks.
I asked her what happend. She told me about the call.
Both D's crying . Then Anger took over.
W is really digging a huge trench between D's and herself
I managed to calm them down. They told me they don't want to talk about mommy ever again.
So hard seeing them like this. W will probably put this on me. My fault right lol
Just when you think they show signs of normal behaviour they go and do something crazy. Can I use that word. Don't want to offend anyone.
I'm starting to think I'm crazy. Letting her text me crap about how she's a good mom. I told W again. It's up to her to fix her relationship with the D's
She answers... They will contact her when they are ready. She won't contact them. This is respecting them.
D's are children I reply. You are an adult, you need to fix this.
Make a plan, and do it. I can't make the plan and the D's can't so it's all up to you.
Irish,
You are a good man who is trying to make your wife accountable for her actions...I hate to burst your bubble, but it's not going to work. You've stated your thoughts on her connecting w/her girls, now you will need to leave it alone. She's going to do what she wants no matter what anyone says. You can't rationalize w/someone who is irrational.
Put all of your efforts and focus on you and your girls. If and when she wants to communicate w/the girls, she'll do so...but until then, leave her outside to twirl in the wind.
What Job said ^^^.
Irish, trust me on this...your wife, when reading your texts, is saying in her head.."Blah, blah, blah."
You are trying to rationalize with someone who is crazy right now. (Yep, I wrote that because it's true). She is very broken. She wants what she wants and you writing that to her, makes you her feel like you are her paarent. She will start stamping her feet and digging in if you continue.
You cant fix this or her. You cant force her to be the kind of mother she should be. You just cant.
That's where letting go comes in. That's where being the kind of parent your daughters need comes in. That's all you can do.
Job and uRworthy
I know lol I know ... Just me losing he reality of her desease.
She was a mother that all me D's friends wanted as a mother.
All the kids always said my house was the best place to be.
She I volunteered at my D's daycare when they were younger... The kids would love me and some even called me daddy lol.
Hope the love she had for her girls will come back.... I heard of one case the W got stuck in the tunnel and her D's see her once a year.
I told her what I needed to. So I'll let her do her thing . It's all up yo her.
Thanks again for the support.
My boss said I had my jump in my voice again. My cycling has reduced to small moments in the morning only.
Cheers
I had a question
We live in the same city. Well not sure where she loves since she vacated her apartment to live with OM after 3 weeks out.
Left all her furniture .. Not sure she paid last months rent.
I wanted to set up a system
To benefit me and her
Avoid a certain bar on even or odd nights
Pick one grocery store of the 3 and the other avoids it
No OP in context with the D's at least for the next 6 months since they are still dealing with all this
Are these a waste of time.
I just want to avoid seeing her and I'm sure she wants the same.
Will make it easier to live NC
Your thoughts ?
I don't think that's a good idea. Maybe just adapt your own plans if you dont want to see her, and leave if you do. If you guys live in a city, it probably isnt going to happen much would be my guess...
Ok, Irish, I'm going to start challenging you a bit...it's time.
Say it with me now..."You cannot control her, her whereabouts, her relationship with your daughters. You cannot dictate where she can go or not go."
It just doesn't work that way. Listen, this is a long haul. A marathon, not a sprint.
You kind of have to decide at some point if you are up for it because it is a hard road. It aint for the faint of heart.
If you don't want to see her, don't go to that bar..although, I wouldn't stop living my life because of her choices.
Have a plan set up in your head of how you will act if you do run into her.
I would say be cordial, polite, upbeat and move along.
.
You have to let her walk this journey. Your job is to walk yours.
Don't worry about what may happen so much.
When I was first going through all of this, I made myself a roadmap of how I wanted to act. I knew that I wanted to be able to look back and see certain things that were important to me.
I wanted to act with dignity and strength. I wanted to cause no harm to the relationship between my son and his father. I wanted to be able to see that I acted with honor and stayed true to who I was becoming. I wanted to be able to tell my son, should he ask (and he did), that I did everything in my power to save my marriage.
With that roadmap, I always knew how to act. I never had to worry about what I would do if I ran into him and I did. I was me...always.
You have enough to worry about right now. Leave her to fly around the cuckoo clock.
uRWorthy yes road map
Actually it's a small city . Not many bars and just knowing I won't see her I'd feel a lot better.
She can't even look at me in mediation.., so I doubt she wants to see me out and about
But your advise will be read over and over.
Will not worry about all that.
My girls today haven't mentioned her . They are laughing and enjoying he day after school.
All talk is about their day and the stuff that teens want to talk about
First time in a while that they didn't question me on her. I like it
D's cell phone got cancelled. W only bill she had to pay and she missed the last 3 months.
Girls use wifi at home, they have tablets, and a lap top
So phone for now they don't need . I'll get them on anothe plan soon
Cheers
Yea, Irish, they often cant look us in the eye.
I would always remember, whenever I ran into him, that I had nothing to be ashamed of. I hadn't done anything wrong. So, I would just smile or wave or whatever and be on my way.
I could do that because I knew I wouldn't want to be him for all the money in the world. I couldn't imagine what was going on within him to cause him to act in a way that was opposite of who I knew for so many years.
It will get easier. Until then, smile or wave or whatever you choose and keep on keepin on.
Your daughters are watching you closely. You are their touchstone right now. If you are ok, they will be, too.
You get the honor of showing them how to navigate through life's tough stuff. Do it with grace and show them well.
I'm still struggling. Had a work event the other night. The guy next to me started talking about him needing to see his lawyer next week. Something about his crazy EXW . I mentioned to him I was going through a separation as well.
He is 3 yrs since BD. Lived with her for the first year then was pushed out.
Lost the house to her and his D. His S joined him since he was of age to see his mom was not there.
He didn't know about MLC until into his 2nd year and had moved on to someone else. Actually he got back together with an old girlfriend of from college.
Said he wouldn't take her back last year when she tried and she went even more monster and hasn't showed any signs in coming back to herself or a more mature herself. His D has since asked to join him because of the neglect his EXW is showing to her.
When I told him where I was and the damage W did in the last 2.5 months after BD... He couldnt believe that my W and his EXW were at the exact same place.
Only exception is I'm 3 months in and he's 3 years.
What makes mine so extreme. Say MLC is rated on a scale from 1-5
Mine is a 12.
Am I dealing with something else.
He did say that his EXW also had no friends , childhood to work collegues.
This seems to be a recurring thing with MLC
Guess they have a hard Time attaching to people as they go through life because they are afraid of rejection like they suffered as children with their parents.
Other than that , had a great day with a friend at the spa. She wanted to get me out and change of thoughts. Didn't metion W the whole time . Felt good.
Brought the D's to an amusement park the next day and had a blast.
Yea, Irish, they often cant look us in the eye.
I would always remember, whenever I ran into him, that I had nothing to be ashamed of. I hadn't done anything wrong. So, I would just smile or wave or whatever and be on my way.
I could do that because I knew I wouldn't want to be him for all the money in the world.
Yeah, it is funny like that. Even years later when I ran into my ex at the store or at a kid related function, she couldn't look me in the eyes. For me, rather than wave, I just give her plenty of space. Seems to be what she's after. Even yesterday, I ran into her downtown and she made it a point to not look me in the eye. But like Ur said, just have to remember it's not about you, it wasn't your choice, and it's not going to change if you feel like you should be the one to feel ashamed.
You don't want to be her.
Be careful judging on scales or timelines. I can tell you that many people here can easily relate to your situation and the actions of your W. They are different, yet similar if you see what I mean. As an example - I ran into a former guy friend of my ex's. One of the one's I almost bashed in the head with an axe handle. I made it a point to be friendly with the idiot. He was going through similar with his now ex, and I think he wanted to try and fix my ex at the time. We spent a few minutes catching up and trading experiences we had in common. He's upset my ex doesn't treat him like a friend any longer (idiot). He also can't understand why his ex is still angry at him all this time later. I don't honestly think his ex knows, but you can't really tell him that.
Long way around to say that they do similar things. The names are different, but it really boils down to a few different plays that they follow. Nothing new under the sun (happens where it regards people).
Better yet, act as if she won't come back, be prepared to prevent that if she doesn't really prove she wants back AND you still want her back at that time, and focus on you and your kids. By far, the kids really need the most focus. They just lost their mom and their dad is hurting too. They need a strong parent now more than ever. And you'll be surprised by their feelings (both positive and negative) in the coming months and years. Pay attention and you'll find that you are very much needed and likely need to hear what they have to say as well.
AJ
Let me add to the above. I just saw your autosig.
If you ever doubt what's going on, have another look at the autosig. If you ever think she'll bounce back or quickly be ok or even act rational in the near future, consider that she's a mom who left her own kids.
Not sure there's much more to help explain what kind of state she's in than that.
AJ
Hi AJ
Yes I remind myself of the that every day. W leaving her D's
I don't want to see them go through this again.
The pain they felt the day she told them she didn't want to be a mom anymore.
That she wanted lipo suction and a tummy tuck to erase what they did to her body.
Then to turn to me and say the last 10 years was fake. Did it all for the kids
Ok, so why am I standing.
Well I know that's not my W talking.
It took a few long nights with my D's to help them see that it's not their fault
Mommy has to work things out.
Tough on them. But today .... They are stronger, closer to me and each other .
I've cut back on my work, spent time with them and had more emotional talks with them than I have had in the last year.
So grateful to have them.
W well she can only take care of herself
Hi Irish. It's the hurt caused to the kids that cuts us so deep, I think. Hard to get our mind around that.
You asked about how hard and fast she's run. It is different for everyone. Best not to compare. There have been many others like your wife.
I haven't seen where it makes the journey any faster or slower or easier or harder for that matter.
No matter how they do it, they are still in crisis. They still need to walk that path.
I do think that when it is as your wife has done it, the crisis is clearer to see.
Remember that when bomb date happens, they have already been going through it for a few years.
Get your road map, Irish. Get yourself and your daughters in a good place.
Leave your w to walk her journey. You walk yours.
The only way to do this..is through it.
Then to turn to me and say the last 10 years was fake. Did it all for the kids
Ok, so why am I standing.
That is actually a really good question....
Why are you standing ???
Hi AJ
Yes I remind myself of the that every day. W leaving her D's
I don't want to see them go through this again.
The pain they felt the day she told them she didn't want to be a mom anymore.
That she wanted lipo suction and a tummy tuck to erase what they did to her body.
Be careful with this one Irish...
So often, we (the LBS) take it on the chin for our children's pain. We internalize what this is doing to them, and twist it around to what this is doing to us. We ride piggyback on the hurt inflicted onto them, as our own.
One of the many things that I have learned through this, is that she isn't doing any of this, to you, or them. She isn't consciously doing anything with the direct, end result, to make you or them hurt.
She is doing this for herself....
And you might be able to imagine the hurt and guilt that she is feeling inside because of it.
Although most MLCers act on pure emotion, there is a small part of them that know what their actions will do, and what the end result will be. The majority will tell you, however, that they know that their actions will cause hurt, yet they feel compelled to act anyway.
It is just something that they have to find out...
Soooo....to reiterate your earlier question ( before I go too much further)....
Why
are you standing ???
URWorthy , yes my map
Working on it. I know you've mentioned that a few times.
And I do read theses posts over and over..,
Mach1
I am standing because I beleive in her.
In my heart and soul I know she is fighting to break free of her past issues.
We are so connected , when she was pregnant I felt contractions.,, also gained a few pounds as well.
We communicated with glances. Enjoyed everything the same. Same tastes , same ideas, same dreams.
So I am standing for me.
uRWorthy
What you said about W going through this already a few years before BD
I agree.. Only saw it after educating myself
She would sometimes say things out of the blue like
" I can never make you really happy "
I would answer her with a hug and kiss telling her she's nuts... Little did I know
She would also be fascinated with youth that lived on the street in the last year or so.
Also found out a lot about her family history of either bipolar , depression etc
Nothing I could of done to stop it... Or prevent it anyway.
I've read a lot on what it's like robe in the fog for the MLC from those who have exited it properly.
What I find now is I see it everywhere. People I knew in the past and present. Explains a lot.
I find people don't talk about it or are ashamed or just no clue. I was speaking to my neighbour about W. The were wondering where she was. Upon finishing my story my neighbours wife said OMG. She finally understood that her XH was a MLC.
Can you say epidemic
Mach1
I am standing because I beleive in her.
In my heart and soul I know she is fighting to break free of her past issues.
We are so connected , when she was pregnant I felt contractions.,, also gained a few pounds as well.
We communicated with glances. Enjoyed everything the same. Same tastes , same ideas, same dreams.
So I am standing for me.
The reason that I asked you that, wasn't to upset you, or make light of anything...
I want you to see that standing is YOUR choice, not her's or anyone else's....it is yours.
You stand because it's the right thing to do....for you.
To give yourself the best chance at having another opportunity at a relationship with this Woman.
And there is a difference between standing, and just waiting...
What I see from you, is that you are just waiting. You are waiting for something to be different, something to change within her. For her to just "snap out of this".
As Job pointed out, you are expecting rational behavior from an irrational person. Einstein has defined insanity as
Doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results...
How is that different from what you are doing right now ?
Is that any different from the past ???
I spent some time reading this thread, and there were a few things that drew me to you.
I am going to use a few of your words, and I want you to tell me what they mean to you...
I allowed her...
I let her...
I will allow this...
I told her...
What does that look like to you, if you were to read those from somebody else ???
Another thing that concerns me, is that you are starting to show some signs of letting you anger rule your emotions. That is what I was driving at earlier.
Often times, and especially as early into this as you are, you will make choices and decisions from your emotions. That is exactly what your MLCer is doing also. Typically, the results of those choices are not pretty.
Your focus right now, is clearly on her. What she is doing, how she is, who she is with....
Your focus is also what, when, where, why , and how she interacts with the kids. And it's okay to be aware of that, and you should be aware, just not focused.
The emotional side of that is....that you make judgment calls on how terrible she is acting, who she is with, what she is doing. And believe me, a MLCer is pretty good at knowing how to perpetuate the emotion. They are all about that.
So while you say that she is spiraling downward, what you don't see, is that you are too....every time that you buy into her program, you are exactly where SHE needs you to be.
For right now, I would say that you need to find YOUR center, and your balance. You need to back away from trying to fix this with her, and for the kids. Especially trying to fix her relationship with the kids. With some of your conversations, you are dangerously close to Parental Alienation. And you really don't want to go down that road.
Going back to why you are standing....
Some people choose this path out of fear..
Some out of guilt...
Some out of feeling a sense of superior morality...
Some simply for the children....
I ask you again,....why are you standing???
As the person that she is today...you believe in that person ??
Do you really know that she is fighting through this ???
Were you really that connected ? I mean, you didn't see or feel this coming did you ???
Just glances ? I mean, I get what you are saying...most of us here felt the same way about our spouses.....
But what if....your glance meant something different ???
What if ....she really didn't like her eggs scrambled ???
Maybe....just maybe....
Each of you got lost through this, and THAT is what she is struggling to find ???
And maybe YOU are too ????
Best thing that you have said yet....
So what does that ^^^ mean to you ??
What does that encapsulate ??
How will you know when you get there ???
Who is Irish.....without all of the baggage ???
As a friend once said ....
Stand, but don't stand still....
Hi Mach1
Much appreciated your input and advise
Yes I am new in this. Learning as I go and getting great advise as well
A few comments above threw me off.
Parental alienating ... I Have done more to bring my W and D's together than I should of. I also made it very clear to W that it is up to her from now on.
Not sure if you read all the details of what she did to them. Not many parents would of allowed that to go as far as it did.
Yes I felt something was off a couple of months ago. I knew something was coming just didn't know the magnitude of it when it hit. She was one that was all over me until the day she walked out. I would wake up at 5 in the morning ... Being very quiet not to wake her.. She would get up anyway to sit with me or go out with me to take pictures( I'm an amature photographer)
When i'd work in my home office, she would be right next to me talking about her day and about our D's, or would be working on her things.
I've learned by reading many stories on this that she has journey to do for her.
Myself I am on mine. I know I'm not perfect. I know what I need to improve and find in myself.
I did GAL. I'm actually going out tonight. My D's picked out my shirt.
I didn't miss a beat with my D's this summer. Took them camping movies, BBQs , road trips, amusement parks etc.
My D's have also changed .. More responsible , studying more for school, better choices in friends.
If I am hurting now it's no longer because I miss my W. The person she is is not my W. I wouldnt be married to that person. How she acts and what she says is what pushes me and drives me to NC. It's because my D's want their old Mom back.
The D's cut her off before I did because of what she did to them.
I used her illness as an excuse. I don't anymore.
Why I stand. I stand for me. I stand for my W that is in this monster.
I stand for the belief that God will guide her through her fog. And I will be a much better father and person. If she wakes up and wants in our life , we will decide if she is welcome.
I will never turn my back on her if she needs help when and if she crashes. Even if it's in 2 - 3 - 5 or 10 years. The 17 years with her she deserves that much.
If I timeline it I know it's wrong. No MLC is the same. I just want to mentally prepare myself of the what ifs also understand the most I can about all this.
I really appreciate your post.you really know how to get a guy to think.
Cheers!!
I just want to mentally prepare myself of the what ifs also understand the most I can about all this
You don't see it yet, but what you can do is let her go about her way and live your own life. You said the words, but it's obvious that you don't yet feel them.
That's how it works though. It takes time and work. Is what it is.
You're going out. To do what?
AJ
Hi AJ :-)
Hope you are doing well.
I say those words because I am the type that once I study, read and understand the situation fully or at least in MLC cases .... I can then let go.
If I'm always wondering the why then my mind takes over.
I am not necessarily saying I need to study and understand my W.
I read all stories, understand the Desease and easier to walk away and know the signs of too early returns, manipulation, monstering etc
If we don't then I risk to fall into a trap or do and say the wrong thing.
I am cut off from W. Don't know where she lives. I have no FaceBook connection to her. My D's decided for themselves to do the same.
I see her in mediation today. Hopefully finalise all the paper work. After that the vanisher will vanish and do her journey.
Last night I went out to the old part of the city with a friend for supper. Great company once again.
Before going out I was with my D's. Helped D13 put blue streaks in her hair. They faded last week due to the chlorine in the pool.
She was so happy. She said to me that I had talent. Lol I guess fathers can do what mothers do..
Parental alienating ... I Have done more to bring my W and D's together than I should of. I also made it very clear to W that it is up to her from now on.
Not sure if you read all the details of what she did to them. Not many parents would of allowed that to go as far as it did.
And that is part of it as well.
Anything that you do to interfere with their relationship, can be considered alienation. I would ask you to educate yourself on that a bit...
Yes I felt something was off a couple of months ago. I knew something was coming just didn't know the magnitude of it when it hit. She was one that was all over me until the day she walked out. I would wake up at 5 in the morning ... Being very quiet not to wake her.. She would get up anyway to sit with me or go out with me to take pictures( I'm an amature photographer)
When i'd work in my home office, she would be right next to me talking about her day and about our D's, or would be working on her things.
That is pretty typical through MLC. Most times, the MLCer will seem closer in the weeks leading up to the bomb.
They do this to justify their decision to leave the LBS. So when they look into the eyes of a LBS and say " I have tried everything" , and you look at her and say " We haven't tried everything"...
In the eyes of the MLCer, they have. And that closeness leading up to the bomb is their last ditch effort to feel....something, anything.
I've learned by reading many stories on this that she has journey to do for her.
Not every story is the same, nor will it ever be. And I can tell you this....nothing...NOTHING that you read, will ever prepare you for actually walking through the hailstorm...
Why I stand. I stand for me. I stand for my W that is in this monster.
I stand for the belief that God will guide her through her fog. And I will be a much better father and person. If she wakes up and wants in our life , we will decide if she is welcome.
Little advice here....your wife isn't a monster. She is hurting, just as much as you are. And she misses you, just as much as you miss her.
However...
Ever heard that people hurt those that they love the most, the most ???
Yep...that is where you are at. And you are both guilty of it...
Want things to get better ? Then be better.
Regardless of MLC, your actions mean a LOT during these times for her. Make no mistake that she is watching you, and your actions. How you interact, who you interact with, what you say about this, what you say about her.
Nothing you can do right now will change her mind, yet EVERYTHING that you do will change her mind...So when this is over, how would you like to be remembered ???
Because THAT ^^^, is all that matters right now.
Every interaction that you have, be it with her or whomever.
Be that guy....
If I timeline it I know it's wrong. No MLC is the same. I just want to mentally prepare myself of the what ifs also understand the most I can about all this.
So what can you do, to best employ that ???
Irish, in the beginning, we all want to know as much as we can. We read everything we can get our hands on. We talk with people, we watch our spouses.
I know because I was there. Know what I learned the most? We cant understand this because we aren't in one. You know how when something horrific happens, like losing a child or someone getting cancer? We have compassion for them. We feel badly for them. But we cant possibly know how it feels to actually go through that.
So, I let that go. It started to get in the way of the work I needed to do. It took time to release it. But it was really necessary.
Because at the end of the day, this is their journey. They will walk it as they do. And me understanding it wouldn't change it.
It is what is right now. This is something that was destined to happen. No amount of forethought or love or anything else could have stopped it.
Understanding that..holding onto that..will help you through.
I don't have many regrets about how I walked all of this besides how I handled it financially, except this...I wish I had learned to let go sooner. I wish I listened better to what people told me.
Because when we let go, we get to the good stuff. Yep, you read that right. We get to become who we were meant to be without the "noise" of a MLC. We get to concentrate on being our best selves and we get to be there for our children.
I want to say this about your children and their mother. When I was going through all of this, I made myself a promise. The promise was that I would cause no harm between my son and my xh's relationship. That didn't mean there wouldn't be any. It just meant that I would not have any part in it.
So, I allowed their relationship to unfold. I said not one bad word about his dad. I made not one face. I never rolled my eyes or sighed or anything else that would indicate anything to my son about my feelings towards his father. That relationship was theirs to forge without any interference from me. Where the relationship wound up was out of my hands.
I will tell you that their relationship isn't what it once was, nor what it could have been, but, they are close again. And my son has thanked me more than once for allowing him to have a relationship with his father without having to worry about how it may affect me.
The sooner you can let her go, the better. It is in acceptance, that we find peace. Love her enough to do that and love yourself enough, too.
Letting W handle her relationship with the D's, I have done that . I have handed over the keys to W.
I have never spoken bad about their mom. I've only listened to their concerns and even then always finished with mommy loves you.
They don't want to see her , their choice. W told them just the other day she will not call,email or try to contact them. It's up to them to reach out to her. She deserves that respect.
I think the list of things she did to them is overdue. Now keep in mind she never did these things before
Yelled at them and swore
Said she wanted lipo suction to erase what they did to her body
Didn't want to be a mom
Told them to feed themselves she's not their slave
Drove irrationaly with them nearly causing an accident
Offered them alcohol
Asked them to show her how to twerk
Said i was abusive and controlling to the kids
Called the cops on me and the police sad no issue and left
Cancelled her payments for future college fund
Offered them pot ( she never smoked in her life)
Sex talk about guys
Tried to transfer funds from their college fund to her
Told them to shut the F up
Lied to them
Took off on them and made them walk miles home
Sold their wii for money
Stole my d,-15 tablets
Hasn't seen them in over 45 days
Doesn't call
Never asks them how they are
Missed both of there birthdays
Told them they need a mental doctor
Got drunk in front of them
She abandoned them
Gave up custody . She should have them every other weekend. Still has not asked to see them or have them over. She skipped out ofher Appartment after 3 weeks. Now living with OM
So I guess this is normal. May 30 2015 she loved them more than anything
June 1 ..... Done with us all
Today .... They are not a priority
Today was mediation day. she is planning a bankruptcy. She accepted my offer on the house.
She looked sad again, shaking her head a lot
Voice cracked when I said hello.
Once the mediator came in talking about money.... She monstered. Yelling, at me for nothing.
I stayed calm. This is business now and that's my strength. I am well protected and she isn't getting much. She will have to advise the bankruptcy office that she will get funds in October from me buying her out. Not my problem if she doesn't . Someone will collect anything she owes from her. I will be in the clear.
She started saying her mom has cut her off and sister doesn talk to her. Blamed it on me . Of course. I haven't spoken to her mom in over 60 days. Said I manipulated everyone to cut her off. Wow I didn't know I was so powerful.
She mentioned she moved . The mediator wanted her new address
She said she didnt want me to know where. I left the room.
I said if ever the girls visit her I want to know where first. For their safety.
All in all went well. I should be divorced in 3 months.
W keeps forgetting important files. Delays the process
I know divorce is bad.. But It's just a paper.
I also got wind of who she is dating/living with. affair down big time. But I knew that from the no gas in car thing.
Irish,
I'm sorry you had to go thru that yesterday, but you are right...divorce is just a piece of paper. I know that you don't want to hear this, but for now, you are far better off having everything separated on paper.
They do love to blame us for everything that goes wrong in their lives. They don't like to look in the mirror and admit that maybe they had a hand in what is happening to them. She'll get over it in time. I'm really not surprised that the monster came out yesterday, but she felt like she was being pinned to the wall on so many things and she had to lash out. However, I'm glad you remained calm.
Again, I'm so sorry that you and your daughters are having to deal w/this stuff.
Thanks Job
Also go a call from SIL
She said thank you to me for being strong and taking care of the D's
It's better they don't see W anyway in this state.
FIL and MIL also realize now that W is in another world.
I said I will visit with both of them soon so they can see the D's
SIL wants to write a letter to W about her behaviour. I told her she may not read it or even understand it at this point but it is up to her.
She's afraid she'll push her over the edge into regret and she'll harm herself. So she's chosing her words wisely.
It's confirmed she is smoking pot and hash. So I guess self medicating sex,drugs and alcohol....
I'm heading out with the D's to pick up a new dog this weekend . We are 3 excited LBS's
Irish, if you sit back and look for a second, you do know this person is not your W, right? An alien of sorts.
As time goes on, don't take it personally. Don't feel sad when the divorce is final -it's a point in time. Don't feel guilty if you feel glad when it comes in either. You'll be surprised at how it will relieve you of some of the stress since it marks the end of that chapter. Not the book, but the chapter. In that sense, it's just a piece of paper and a point in time. And certainly not the worst she's done toward you, ya know?
They don't want to see her , their choice. W told them just the other day she will not call,email or try to contact them. It's up to them to reach out to her. She deserves that respect.
As if your W hasn't said one thing and done another, right? She doesn't deserve that respect if you ask me. I don't care what else is going on in her life or her head, personally. Having been through exactly that, I have zero respect for people that take their anger out on people to the degree they take it out on their own kids.
Saying that, I do recognize that as a bigger problem with her. And I do have compassion for her. Just not respect. I'm capable of different emotions, just like you
I always took the stance that she can do to me what she likes. I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions. The kids? That's their mom. Keep not saying bad things about their mom out of respect for the kids. You'll be tested. But you do also have to protect them (you seem to be) and some honesty will be appropriate at a later date. Not opinion, but honesty.
Congrats on the dog! Sounds like fun. And it sounds like the family understands exactly what the story is. It may even be familiar to them, unfortunately. I remember that moment with my ex's family (parts of it). It was at least helpful to me to know that with all the other crazy stuff going on at the time.
It took a long time to see it for me, but it was never about me. And it's not about you. While sad, and grieving is something you'll have to do, it matters Irish.
Try not to watch the train wreck. It won't make you happy to see it.
AJ
Hi AJ
Yes respect for her is long gone. My girls deserve better. I deserve better.
We all know it's not her. I don't want to be married to that. Also like you said it frees me. When mediation ends I will be completely NC.it will feel good because when I am not around her I am starting to feel great.
I do cycle down sometimes when a flashback occurs.. Missing her etc. But I quickly think of what she did to my D's... I say thank god they are with me.
Also W still has me in her life since it's not final. Once it's final and no ties left.... She can be free of her old life and see that it wasn't me who caused her pain and sadness.
W said to me during mediation" you can't let go... "
I looked at her like what are you talking about. In the last month I haven't called her or texted her. Only a text concerning the D's or about me buying her out.
And never in all the last 2 months talked about her coming home, fixing us , trying etc
Question : she still can't remember things she did or said to the girls. How will she ever regret if she can't remember anything.
I know I need be I really want to stop analyzing her. Stop thinking about what she is doing. I know who the OM is. She doesn't want me to know. Hides it from everyone.
Should I expose it? Not in a bad way. Just plant seeds to people who are connected to her. Ex : when they ask me about W .. I reply, oh she is living in town X with a first name last name guy.
It's actually the first local guy she started chatting with on her new FaceBook page. All her other chats were guys 1000's of miles away.
I confronted her 2 months ago when she was still in the house. She deleted him but I knew better. Sad they need attention so bad the first guy that wants it gets it. Complete opposite from me and not a catch of the century.
Now if this OM fails... I read other stories of other MLC'r in the forum about OM2's and OM3's. Do they just jump OM to OM
Or she realizes she is making huge mistake when this fails. I guess we can't know. Their journey.
I know .... Her journey .... My journey..... Think of me and my D's . Who caress about W. She'll figure it out soon enough. I'm getting there.
Yes the puppy this weekend is going to be amazing. Good road trip for me and my D's. Visiting my brothers family 5 hours away. The dog is an hour from there. Girls are so excited.
You do or don't want to know? Seems a lot of back and forth there...
Everyone is different, Irish. Some affair down and stay happily married for a lifetime. Others, bounce from one to the next. Seems the common thread is that they do what they do until they figure it out. Each in their own time.
Regrets? Would you want to remember you said such things?
No matter what she figures out or doesn't, she will likely never tell you nor anyone else. It's very rare that they will tell you things or remember those events with clarity.
AJ
Just checking in as promised Irish.
V
Hi V good to hear from you, hope you are doing well :-)
AJ.. I guess I am hoping she has regrets because I can't for the life of me understand her neglect for the D's
They were so close. Always together.
Loved them more than anything in the world.
It will be 2 months she hasn't seem them.
I'm at the point that I'm not thinking about me missing her.. Only about the D's losing their mom.
If there was regret somewhere in her Lalaland
Maybe she'll try to connect with them.
Breaks my heart.
GAL
We picked up the puppy. So cute and a handful of course.
Will be great for the girls. So much love to give
My Brother mentioned this weekend he thought my D's were closer. The shared the same chair and blanket at the outdoor fire on Friday.
He said that's nice. They're there for each other.... But this is not new behaviour. My girls have always been close. Glad that is continuing.
The 5 hour drive back was long. It seems only W's music was on the radio.
D's had me changing the station multiple times to avoid these songs.
It did allow them to share their feelings more about their mom.
They tend to shut it out. Never brining her up or saying they miss her.
I find it weird they disconnected from her in thought. I guess its a protective measure... This was the first time they mentioned her In days.
Got an email from STBXW on child support. It was polite and in the style of W before BD
She asked me to confirm that o received the transfer. I replied that I'll look at it tomorrow and let her know.
At the same time she email my D's
Said its been 3 months she hasn't talked to them. ( actually only 2) Said that she didn't deserve to be treated this way. She understands they are mad at her but they should get over it. Told them that I agree on W seeing D's
Maybe go for lunch or something.
She wants this to happen.finished with a I love you like daddy loves you. He's a good daddy
Again all about her and not one concern on how they are. Their feelings or apologie on what she did to them.
I let the D's reply. Oldest D said she'd think about it. But will probably reply"no thanks, we are not interested "
I really don't mind them seeing their mom in a public place.
But if OM is there... Not going to happen.
Irish....
It's a tough call. You want your kids to feel they have a choice and they can express their anger to her. At the same time, you don't want this to grow into a lifelong estrangement if you can help it.
My ex husband's mother left when he was a teen. His father was devastated. The three boys refused to see her, the two girls stayed in contact.
I convinced my ex to reconcile with his mom about ten years later. It was awkward at first but eventually they developed a decent relationship. My ex didn't want the dysfunction to carry through to our kids generation.
One brother finally reconciled with her in his 40s. The oldest brother is sixty and still hasn't spoken to his mom 40 years after the event.
My point is, these things can become a lifelong burden. Do what you can to prevent that happening while allowing them to express their feelings.
How about wedding anniversaries
Do I send her an email, just saying
Happy anniversary even though we are where we are. This is more a thank you for the years we shared. I will remember them always. We had 2 super D's. Well raised and beautiful , we should be very proud of what we did to raise them this way. Thinking of you today.
Love Irish
Cancel that question.
I will not message her. Me D's on the drive to their school brought W up on the drive over. They are so frustrated with her messaging them all about how she feels, how they disrespect her for not wanting to see her.
My youngest says" how can I respect her is she doesn't respect herself or me, she's so selfish... I still haven't got a birthday anything from her..."
I said just that it was up to them how to deal with their mom.
On the drive to work.. I answered my above question.... No contact to W. It's not her that I married anyway.
Hi Irish M, Just to tell you about my XW's first birthday after she left us (Jan 2004). Her birthday was late August, Not one of my D's wanted to send her a card. So I got them one, they reluctantly signed it. I posted it. The day after her birthday, I was told she was crying her eyes out, with the OM at the bar in the hotel where she worked, because neither of her 3 D's phoned her up or sent her a present!!!
I wonder what would she would've been like, if she hadn't received that card I got for the kids to send?
Love
Delboy
AJ.. I guess I am hoping she has regrets because I can't for the life of me understand her neglect for the D's
Of course you don't understand. What kind of person would you be if you did? Not one that you'd like most likely, right? But this is not about you, so it's OK if you don't understand. Really. Let's look at what is instead. Her relationship with her daughters is broken. That hurts your daughters. And it seems to hurt your W as well. Yet she has done it. Is what it is, just like the sun coming up in the morning. You can't change what happened. But you do have choices that matter.
I'm at the point that I'm not thinking about me missing her.. Only about the D's losing their mom.
If there was regret somewhere in her Lalaland
Maybe she'll try to connect with them.
Breaks my heart.
Of course it does. What kind of parent would you be if you took joy at their suffering.
And it seems your W is "trying" (clumsily) to reach out to your daughters. I would be skeptical of the hurt they felt if they if made it easy and bit at the first attempt. The two real issues are 1) if she keeps trying and 2) what you do.
You can't control her trying. Don't even try. But you can control what you do. You can control how you help your daughters. You can control what it is that you want for them.
Look beyond should or shouldn't and look down the road. What do you want for your daughters? And what are you going to do about it regardless of what happens with anyone else?
That's what your daughters will remember. The example you set and the guidance you give them.
Personally, I chose to try and get my ex and the kids back together. Believe me, I took an emotional beating from all sides for that, and OM's input to boot. I did not and do not care about any of that. My only goal was my kids. My secondary goal was honoring my past relationship regardless of who she was. i.e. if I could be helpful without overstepping my bounds, and it not being detrimental to my kids, I did. Every time.
It wasn't pleasant for me, but I'm glad I did what I did in those situations. And I did it knowing the outcome I wanted for my kids and the difficulty I'd have doing it. I'm still breathing
I'm not suggesting you force things. Not at all. That would undermine their safety and security with you. They need that safety and security with you. Desperately. But if you can find a way to ease that reconnection over time, will it help the daughters in the long run?
On that note, I don't think you should send an anniversary note or card. But I do think you'll have opportunity to help them reconnect in some way.
Think about it.
AJ
Hi Delboy
Read some of your posts, on that caught my eye was
Quote ---I’m a bit different to most, I would like to know about your wife’s past life and the atmosphere that she grew up in.To me, family of origin counts for a lot in MLC cases. Would you mind sharing this information?
Well in my W's past and family
Her mom had a similar MLC causing her dad to have a major depression.
Sister had one as well but was caught by staff at the hospital she worked and was treated and therapy guided her around it.
Her cousin me W's age is major bipolar
Me W's aunt on her mothers side is MLC , had a MLC baby and her daughter is raising him.
My W 10 years ago had a mini MLC. Same script only . Lasted a couple of weeks, left me , neglected the D's. Came back and i brushed it under the carpet thinking it was baby blues.
She still to this day doesn't recall it .
My W doesn't have any friends from her youth, Andy friends from the 6 jobs she's had during our time together.
At our wedding she had 15 guests mostly family. I had 120
So I think now I look at it.... This was coming no doubt about it
How long it will last , no clue, she's running fast.
Hi AJ
Always making me think twice . Thanks :-)
With MLC I think we need to think 3-5 times before doing anything
Yes , definitely I want to see my daughters reunite with their mom.
W knows I tried.
She only recently has reached out to them. I think I know why.
I got a message yesterday for the child support W transfered me via email.
The password was my new puppies name
The only person she still has contact with is the kennel I keep my other dog.
I was there Sunday and introduced the puppy. She also asked about W.
She knew the story except wife said that I was too controlling and it wAs I that wanted seperate....what ever.
She mentioned that W said she missed the dog.
I asked her if she mentioned anything about the girls.
She said no , not at all. I replied that she hasn't spoken to them in 2 months.
Not even an email.
She didn't believe me, said my W wouldnt do such a thing.
That night the D's get an email from W. Maybe a coincidence but ....
I stopped telling W to message or call them about 3 weeks Ago
She stopped and even said she will not contact them at all until they respect her and reach out to her.
So I figure the woman at the kennel mentioned this to W so she reached out, also only person other than my D's who knew my new puppy's name
But I still agree , long term plan to get her and the kids together.
Public place, lunch to start.
She did move out of town because she lost her apartment .
So the D's staying at her place is a not going to happen. Especially with her pot use and OM who W's family met and recommend me keep the kids away from him at all cost.
She knew the story except wife said that I was too controlling and it wAs I that wanted seperate....what ever
hahahaha - typical WAS speak. You were too controlling because you wouldn't let her have her affairs and continue at home like nothing was happening, it was your idea to separate because you weren't willing to have her continue to carry on her affair under your nose and pretend it wasn't happening.
They really don't want to own up to the fact that THEY are the ones who blew up the marriage.
My ex and I had a friend that we had been close to since grad school days. He probably spent equal amounts of time with me and with my ex, so it's not like he was only my ex-husband's friend. When my ex walked out, this guy cut off all contact with me, and the couple of times I have seen him, he looks at me like I'VE done something wrong. I can't help but wonder what lies my ex told to make himself look like the victim instead of the cheating lying selfish self-centered POS that he became. (Oops, did I just let that out???).
Honestly, I understand that divorces are uncomfortable for friends and they often choose to keep one person or another. But I'm seriously disappointed in this guy that he appears to be buying whatever BS my ex was feeding him - this guy knew me for over 20 years. I'd cried on his shoulder when my husband's previous affair came to light.
I guess my point is - you'll come to understand the quality of your friends - or the lack thereof - by how willing they are to buy the wife's BS. Any friends you lose in this process - well, it's probably for the best.
(BTW - I moved 45 minutes away and have a large circle of new friends that I enjoy better than the "couple friends" we had in our marriage anyway.)
Additionally, them telling their "story" is how they cope. It's human, so I wouldn't put much effort into worrying about it. Another data point. For most of the friends, they either buy into the story or they are discarded by the MLCr. Some can deal and others will not. Is what it is.
I will say I was surprised by those that bought into it and those that didn't. For example, her parents didn't really buy into it, but they did have to choose a side, so to speak. It is their daughter after all. They chose to stay as neutral as they could, likely because they didn't buy it all, likely knew about the behavior, and likely because they didn't want to lose contact with the grandkids. Can't say as I blame them. They were put in a tough position they didn't ask for. The BIL is same. Other family members and friends were very angry with her. They've gone out of their way to tell me, which honestly isn't very helpful. To hear their pain is awkward. I even ran into an old "new" friend she made that was upset they are no longer friends, as if that isn't weird
Especially with her pot use and OM who W's family met and recommend me keep the kids away from him at all cost.
That raises a flag. Not the pot use, the family saying to keep the kids away. What's that about?
AJ
Hey Irish. Do what you need to do to protect your kids.
Just wanted to mention something. I know that there is a strong need to want to set the record straight with people. The truth is that people will believe what they want to believe no matter what they are told.
Speaking to others, especially her family, makes it difficult later on if a reconciliation happens. Asking the woman in the kennel if your w said anything about the kids probably isn't the way to go, ya know?
It would be in your best interest to just live your life in the manner of whatever moral code you choose to be important. That is what speaks volumes.
Just got back from a visit with FIL
W said he wouldn't see the D's about a month ago and was very upset.
They wanted to see them so I thought it best that I bring them over.
FIL had much to talk about. He knows W is in a depression or something.
He is very upset with her and didn't like the guy she was with. He is around 50
Divorced and got into extreme sport 2 years ago about . Very high on himself and only talked about him. Gave FIL some pot since he is fight cancer.
FIL girlfriend said he is no where close to being me.
Bad teeth all rotten.
Aggressive and controlling. I sense MLC
So I guess MLC found MLC
FIL said he want a to confront W and really give it to her.
SIL told him that W has to go through this alone. Anything anyone says won't change a thing
I can't tell anyone what or what not to do. It can't come from me.
SIL also want to talk to W . Shake her up
If W has her D's telling her she's not welcome in their lives, SIL and FIL both confront her... Me NC
I can't see that being good. It's not rock bottom either.
How can all this happen in less then 3 months
Hi AJ
Yes W's family isn't too impressed with the OM
They don't trust him. He Wouldn't let W 2seconds out of his sight
The pot use is new to W. They don't approve either but they know that OM is the influence
W has even started to smoke cigarettes again. She quit over 10 years back and was disgusted by smokers ... Until now I guess.
Such a downward slide of what W was.
How can all this happen in less then 3 months
It didn't. It's been a lifetime in the making.
You've had a lot of input over the past few days. Might I suggest you unplug and step back for a bit? That's a lot to take in, no matter who you are.
AJ
Irish,
AJ is right...it's been a lifetime in the making. It didn't happen in 3 months, her personality and behaviors gradually began 18-24 months ago. The changes were so gradual that you and your daughters probably didn't know them or chucked them off to being tired, stressed, etc.
I do agree that you now need to step back and recharge your battery. You've had a lot of info come your way and now you need time to digest it and come to realize that it's all about her and what she needs to heal herself.
Try to keep the focus on you and your daughters. They need you now more than ever.
Sweetie, this was a crisis that was destined to happen. Nothing could have stopped it...nothing.
I know it is so hard to get your mind around. That's because you aren't broken. It is really sad to see someone you love on a downward spiral.
But the only hope for her getting through this, is for those who care to allow her to walk it. She has to get to the other side in her own time and in her own way.
You cant fix this, no matter how badly you want to, Irish.
Let her go. THis is her journey...you walk yours.
Yes you are right ... Was a lot to take in.
Just sitting here now and it's hitting me hard.
Yesterday and all day today I felt great. Sort of sorry for W.
How sad it must be for her in her soul and conscience.
But now I have the feeling of missing her, wanting to take her away from all this pain, tell her we all believe in her, pray for her, love her.
Told my parents that she had been telling everyone that we (my familly) are bad mouthing her family.
My mom cried.
Again my mom said Poor W. Hopefully she ok.
W is living about 30-40 mins away in another town. All highway driving and winter driving for her is not her fancy.
Her work has an office there as well, so transfer is probably her next move.
Guess her new life is all set up. OM has a s18 living there with them.
I'll continue to love my D's because right now they feel abandoned by W and replaced.
Other post I'm reading are helping me cope as I keep forgetting W is not well, the post remind me that she is and nothing we can do for her.
Working on us :-) and me.
So we made it through the week . No contact to me or the D's
Each D has a friend sleeping over tonight and tomorrow I'm taking the Apple picking. We did this with W every year.. Who am I to stop tradition.
Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada so Sunday will be with my side of the family. So looking forward to the meal.
Funny feeling tonight, here I'm sitting up stairs and I can hear the roar of laughter from the D's and their friends downstairs. Life is good.
I consider myself one of the lucky ones . I now my lawyer thinks so. He's probably not liking the fact I don't need him at all. Wife gave up the kids to me 100%, paying me child support, I get to keep the house with a smaller payout to her.
Only sad thing is my friend , lover, partner and soul mate is not here.
I was outside last night looking at the moon. Me and W use to do this all the time she we were apart for a night or so. I'd be on a trip and at 10pm I'd look up at the moon and say love you babe. She would do the same where she was.
Well I did it last night,,,, God only knows if she did it too.
I'm very glad to see that you and your daughters made it thru the week. Sounds like the weekend is getting off to a good start for the girls and their friends. Apple picking is so much fun and I agree, why stop the tradition?
Happy Thanksgiving and I am sure that your family will make it an enjoyable time for you and the girls.
Have you given any thought to create some new traditions as time moves along? Maybe change up some of the things you use to do w/your wife and girls? Maybe there are some new activities in the area that might of interest to you and your family?
Yes, my friend, you are one the lucky ones. You have your daughters full time, she's providing some child support and you are also able to live in your home.
I think you are doing just fine and it sounds like the girls are doing okay too.
Enjoy your weekend.
P.S. Please start a new thread.
Hi Irish. I have been following your thread and am really impressed with your relationship with your D's. Good job dad
I feel your pain. It's like you got it all, but miss your spouse. I truly feel your pain. I like your story about the moon. I had nothing like that with H, but am a big moon watcher. Saw a beautiful sunrise with a sliver of a moon above this morning while walking dog...I always think of H when I see beauty like that....
Hang in there. Hopefully someday our S will do their work and find their way home.