okay- hi anybody - i can't think of any clever subject line- did i do it? make a new thread?
thank you everyone for your help- i'm still spinning out here in the wind - glad for everyones help & generosity of spirit to share their "stories" & insights w/ me.
hope everyone makes it thru the holidays in one piece & attains some peace of mind in the new year... fingers crossed
Hey Nero - I found you, your good! Have a wonderful day!
Here is my new thread!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...265#Post2306265
Hi nero,
Let's look at something you did differently that worked:
i'll throw in one kind of positive thing (i think) - he called to test a new cellphone he was jerking around with- then again. in 2nd call i asked a computer casual ? & in explaining he began to get himself all worked up and icky. and accurately- he was doing it to himself.
the end is that a little while later - he called back- apologized for being icky- asked if the computer "thing" was okay and we had a pleasant call.
it was nice because i got off the cranky call feeling like "go straight to H_ll buddy" - i'm not doing "that" anymore in life- at least my gut says it. that's my biggest change of heart/personality. no explanations, apologies or hurt feelings when he's curt & crappy - just total turn-off & dismissal & dislike. that's something - rite?
YOU reacted differently than what H was expecting...that threw him off and sounds like he thought about his behavior....how can you build on that?
From what I can gather, I think that you being rather quiet throws him off his assumptions of how "you" are, makes him question...but I could be wrong.
Can you work towards letting go of the anger/annoyance in addition to not voicing it?
Try not to think about what he MAY or MAY NOT be doing/not doing and live YOUR life best you can, create changes in you that YOU want. You can't control him, so why give him so much mental energy for free?
As Snodderly says, sit quietly, the answers will come.
hi & thanks for comments.
i think you're definitely rite - that any changes in me toward more quiet are good things.
we have a "troubled" cycle going for communications. he grills me (&everyone - lawyer ) and then he doesn't like answer, length, content, words used, etc. on and on. i suppose as i say this out loud- it's him finding fault & WANTING me to be "awful" so he's justified .
i feel rude if i don't respond- i feel dread to respond if it will lead to "one of those" conversations. I know mwd says break the cycle with something different thrown into the mix.
i can't see what possible thing(s) to say tho or do? it sounds soooo EASY - i'm drawing such a blank. Maybe if i have something planned in advance i could do better.
it sounds soo dopey saying this - - but i cannot think what the heck is the appropriate kind of different thing to say to casually worm myself out of some beginning exchange that seems like he's in a icky mood and it's likely to be bad.
i've written about 3 times to you- left without posting tho - being too un-focused.
maybe if i could ALWAYS tell myself in advance to remain calm- EXPECT the worst - remember to not be spontaneous- i could be "ready". ?? ya think???
i always seem to feel surprised to be "attacked". (that does sound crazy of me) maybe it's his way of communicating- and my defensiveness??? my spontaneous (usual) sort of replies don't cut it. then i begin to get angry that I have to act like i'm someone else- talk like someone else- meet his obstructive & critical attitude with my best "mother theresa" attitude.
oh well- see what i mean? maybe you're rite and i need to work on the anger that pops out. i wouldn't have thought myself a particularly angery girl- i keep it under wraps til i'm blammed - then bingo- first urge is to fight back. i'll mull this over- might be something to really dig out and inspect & work on (hard)..
so do you feel like a psychiatrist - who just says "what do you think about that?" and then the patient heels himself? lets hope so- i always wanted to get my head shrunk but never could justify the expense. oh well-
onward & upward -
Oh, a lawyer? I'm sorry...lol...my sister and her H are lawyers so I know the drill.
I use a lot of questions that keep them talking, like "tell me more about that", "How does that work for you", etc.
Also, when I am questioned on my silence, I say "I am just listening to you so that I understand better" sort of things.
And of course the standard issue: "I'm sorry you feel that way"...
The biggest/hardest thing for me was to learn how to not think of my responses while W was talking, to not think of ANYthing about me or my thoughts/feelings and focus 150% on her and what she is saying.
T^2
ya know -
i can try harder. half of me wants to connect - half of me doesn't even want to talk to him. it all feels so silly & pointless - but i guess it's all i've got at this minute.
i'd have never ever thought i'd end up doing this kind of a superficial "dance" with anyone in the universe - for any reason. life sure is unknowable - isn't is.
i did manage to listen thru & respond appropriately to a big explanation of how he spent a whole day hacking his new cellphone to "get root" - ta da....
need coffee - this is toooo depressing without caffeine
I thinks I should have had my coffee first too. But, I am so at my end that I can't contain my anger. I don't want to be with anyone who has baggage. This was my R, who the hell are ea's/ow's to come in and become a factor.
It is enough for me to leave H forever. It is way to much of an intrusion! And, really how much do I want to have him and his idiosyncrasies back that I don't find endearing anymore!
What am I fighting for, him, thinks about it Dawn, he wasn't ''everything'' you wanted and needed, you did have to make provisions for his character, how about you Nero- you kinda said the same thing about H?
Are we willing to offer the same loving exceptions for these geeks we endured for love, or did they kill that in us for them. Dead and living in Chicago!
I can completely relate Dawn!
I've been thinking a lot about forgiveness too...
I do believe that I can forgive my H. But, I'm not so sure I can ever trust him or believe in him again.
To me, forgiveness is a realization that everyone is human and makes mistakes.
Trust is believing they won't make those same mistakes again, or at least will do their absolute best not to.
And while we are changing and growing in so many positive ways, I feel that the way I feel about my H has changed too, but not necessarily for the better.
Having your heart broken, over and over again by the same person changes you.
I still love and care about my H. I want him to get better. I want him to have a good R with our children.
I just don't know if I want him.
And I surely don't want to give him another chance to hurt me again.
We'll figure this all out eventually
Hang in there!
TVS - Thinking about forgiveness for me doesn't start until H is not doing anything else to forgive him for. It's like a revolving door right now, we talk about this, than he does it again, I get mad at that, and he does it again.
I want off this marry-go-round! Being without him completely has got to be easier than always being let down by your S.
Quote:
If you take friendship off the table, then they will have to asses whether or not the affair will ever meet their needs. I and others took friendship off of the table because... it just wasn't going to really happen in all honesty. I was not going to have an emotional affair with my own S while they pursued an emotional affair with somebody else
That sums it up for me!
Your right in loving your H and wanting him better. I will not admit it, but maybe I still L my H also, I don't thinks so though, maybe it's safer for me to think that. I am not IL though that's for sure. I don't want to want him!
I am really not doing well right now! I can't even figure out why! But, I will keep posting so people like yo can remind me I'm not alone, and I am ok.
Nero - I hope your gaining something out of this too.
best, DM
oh geeee - you sound like me - land of the living dead here too. funny kind of day- didn't mope- or cry or anything drastic- plugged away- but feeling rather pointless and certainly not "cheery" in the background of my mind.
it is such a drag- and i agree with you and takeshervows - my feelings have changed - alot. i can hardly say i love him- i don't think i can at this moment. up til bomb- i could love without a moment's thought- thru & thru - now i'm all scabbed up heart and covering up like crazy. i cannot imagine feeling for him what i once did. i'd say he assumes i still love him- i don't even like him.
"something" - still has a hold on me- but then i have a pair of shoes from 1972 with happy italy memories attached. i'm a person who is sentimental to point of insanity and does have trouble "letting go" across the board.
he called to day- twice - all pleasant and chatty. i'd say guilt and he's gonna see ow. I contained myself- i was pleasant but rushed off the phone kind of. i don't know- i just have nothing to "share" in conversation with him sometimes - it's icky. i wonder why he bothers???.
will continue later- walk waiting & neice needs help with report- all of a sudden-
Nero - I'm a little better. I cried over my tree D18 and friend from Vegas put up. He left, but I miss the kid already, he's was sad to go, wished we had moved there already so they could go to school together. Me, I just wish I was not here, I do miss it there and the people I met, and hiking!
Sometimes I just feel better after I let myself feel!
I don't look forward to Christmas, no parents, no H or loved one to sit under the tree on the Eve as traditionally done, and grown kids who are into there GF's as they should be.
We are not exchanging gifts, we just seem to be going through the days because nothing can stop them from coming.
I find if I hold on to the fact that I "don't like him anymore" it's easier to not think to much, just keep saying, what does it matter, I don't like him, so whatever! LOL! any ole stupid thing you can say to not get all worked up!
I can get through most days reminding myself of this....it weakens his actions!
Sorry you're having a bad day Dawn. I know how that feels!
It is hard to try to sort out our feelings for our H's, isn't it? I find myself with many negative and positive emotions for him all at the same time. One big tornado of emotions, spinning around and around.
What calms me lately is to really make an effort to look at him objectively. He is royally f-ing up his life in every way, yet totally oblivious to it. Man, would it svck to be him! I think this everyday.
And yes, they have brought their big MLC fist down on our lives, smashing them to bits. But, our R with them is just 1 part of our life. Quite honestly, I'm very happy with my life... Except for the alien pod person I'm living with!
Nero, I do wonder what he thinks I think. I feel like he tries to hide his secrets because there is that guilt and shame of what he is doing. If OW is so great, then why doesn't he leave me to be with her? Hey, make the R official! Truly, he uses both of us.
It is hard when the rose colored glasses come off and we see our spouse, and ourselves, in a not so flattering light.
I guess where I'm at now is that I feel that I do still love him, but have lost so much respect for him. Plus, I don't trust him in any way.
He's a mess. He even says he is!
Just remember ladies, it's much better to be us than them
Good later in the morning - I am better today, thanks TVS and Nero, it was nice not to freak out alone.
My wish is that everyone reading has a good day and please lets all remember we deserve better, so lets GAL!
Nero- the strength is all yours, I'm just trying to remind you that it's in there. I can only pray that my words are of some comfort to others, it does help heal me as well.
You have a party tonight, awesome! I went to the Nutcracker w/D18, and my S25's GF, it was a nice night, even though I have seen it like 9x because my guys are the stage techs, so free tickets.
I treated for dinner were we ordered Thai food family style, so good, and no H w/his Mr. Grinch attitude toward the holiday's. See, I did it, I could do more w/out H if I just keep moving forward.
I hope your party is so fun, and you see that you can do it also. I remember how Christmas was never his thing, I would love have what my BF and I had soo many yrs ago, now that was a romantic Eve under the tree
OMG takevow-
Nero, I do wonder what he thinks I think. I feel like he tries to hide his secrets because there is that guilt and shame of what he is doing. If OW is so great, then why doesn't he leave me to be with her? Hey, make the R official! Truly, he uses both of us.
It is hard when the rose colored glasses come off and we see our spouse, and ourselves, in a not so flattering light.
I guess where I'm at now is that I feel that I do still love him, but have lost so much respect for him. Plus, I don't trust him in any way.
me too! BUT - i don't know - without the rose colored glasses - maybe i don't have one thing that is real. not one...
if the man is "fake" - what the heck is the r? or my feelings for him (?) or it, etc. see what i mean? if the entire thing is based on an in-authentic person- who exactly was i in love with- ??? did he even EVER exist??? or the 35 yr "dream sequence" in a b movie????
so, how the heck does one LOVE someone like this/that? i'm askin ya. at some point i was saying i still felt "love" - now i don't even know. (i feel kinda sick to say that out loud ). how sad is that?
when i have a moment of (db type) clarity and buy into the whole "he's in pain- confused- not himself/nuts" thing- i can stomach it and proceed.
THEN - intellectual reality hits - and i ask myself what sort of man i "WILL HAVE" in the end, if he comes thru this to some "other side" and is still even in my life- or realizes that we should have a r - the fact remains that if he's always been a lying person- whether i've known or not- that is what he is.
the sort of person i'd never ever have gotten to know or involved with in the first place. clash of worlds here - - -
and what the heck does a person do with that knowledge ???
so- not enough sleep last nite- canyou tell??? oh well- another of life's big questions for which there is NO RIGHT OR WRONG answer. i hate that about real life- the lack of a clear road. maybe that's the big plus of religion - or total self-righteousness - YOU always KNOW the answer and blam thru life accordingly. this is rite- this is wrong- you're all goin down...
i'd like to capture one little bit of that feeling- total certainty please...
thanks for thoughts- i guess we bumble thru- with all our unsolved puzzle peices and wait for the day something "fits" together. is that all there is???
i keep writing and erasing- i'm so exhausted of trying to say whatever it is (i don't really know) i think i'll just go away- eat a cookie or two and clean this awful house once and for all. need to visit my mom too - (duty-guilt-whatever)
thanks for input- it's the hardest "journey" i'm ever likely to make- wish me lots of luck with not picking up this phone today- treading on very very dangerous ground and know it-
maybe i'll hang a stfu sign on the phones- yup- that's what i'm going to do- knowing he saw her this weekend because of his silence - i just walk by THE PHONE cursing him out anyway-
tra la- i'm SOOOOO MATURE HUH???
hey hi-
I remember how Christmas was never his thing, I would love have what my BF and I had soo many yrs ago, now that was a romantic Eve under the tree blush
I KNOW- ME TOO. man, i'm glad there's another total romantic sap out there - JUST LIKE ME -thinking the exact same thing. isn't it creepy that these jerks that were sooooo reclusive and managed to turn normal ole us into gals with this quiet life that revolved around them- and it was always quite okay with me- like you -
BUT - now they're the guys with secret lives and people that they want to get out to - and here'S YOU & me with no particular social lives (their doing) - that fill in the blanks for us. what little rats they are -
not that i could find some stupid affair rite now anything that would fix anything - BUT I'M sure if we did have some giant other life out there - (that we'd been cultivating or working on) - we might not be so blue for the guy we thought we knew & loved.
i'm in my usual sleep-deprived quandry this a.m. sos...
nothing constructive to say- so i'm going to go eat some cookies (drown my sorrow here) and GULP - CLEAN THIS ratty house - put on makeup- and get busy. only one day to get thru without blowing up- talking- picking up the phone or "going there" - can i do it?
will report on that - the next exciting installment of As the stomach turns -
wish me luck-
oh yeah- party was very nice- lots of nice people and great food. i was glad i went- it was a festive thing and better than sitting home- ta da-
so- do i have a life yet? i might- but it sure aint as good yet as what i think i've lost - oh well...
stfu nero- JUST DO IT.....
Hi Nero - For the yrs leading up to this and even at times now still, I am a little afraid of a social life. THat's crazy, I know! But then, it felt like I would be sending him the message that I will just live without you if your going to be such a dud.
Now, I sometimes feel like I am showing him I don't need him or I'm moving on. I don't care if he thinks that though as long as it is for him to take a look at himself, not to chuck it all and say oh well.
But, I am only hurting myself, not that the door is being knocked down from friends.
I don't like being alone either, only child, but you sure do seem to keep busy. Tomorrow I'm going to get out to the mall and pick up some jewelry I pre ordered for myself, and get some idea's for dinner. Not real exciting!
Check out my movie suggestion! I love movies and popcorn! Even by myself!
hey hi-
you know, i've wondered myself about this. particularly because h is such a quirky kinda guy. i find it hard to believe the rules (necessarily) apply. one can only wonder. your h sounds a whole lotlike him. not the depression-b ut alot other things.
i don't know what the heck he thinks - since he never says anything. if i had to guess- my h would like nothing better than for me to have a lover and lots of social activity so he could go about his way in perfect self-righteousness. i've never made any bones about the fact that i am not & am not looking and it's pretty much the last thing on my "to do"list rite now. he may as well get used to the fact that he is the treasonous one- defector- you dirty rat...
i never pledged to be a nun if i walk out of this life- but i'm not giving him one bit of justification. and i hate the thought of just handing him over - handing my life over - to that cow - HE CAN man up and be the bad guy if that's what's his ultimate goal. he can just squrim under his own guilt- his choice. (yeah - tough aren't I - when i'm not blubbing - i'm being all butch. cripes- i'm such a pitiful mess- thank goodness no body can even seee me - woo hoo.
the party was okay- i wasn't totally dying to go. i was invited and thought, don't be a slug- go. do something rathr than sit around house and stew. so i went.
i like people & don't have much trouble mingling. - it was couples tho, and that made me feel kinda bad- just seeing all these guys all very very dug in with each other- all married for like 20-30 years- they were cute- but of course it made me jealous. oh well- what can you do but feel it - rite??
i'd probably croak if i a=didn't walk at nite with this gal across the way. it's been a life-saver really- like this forum.
not just for me to whine my head off ( i try not to) just to go chat about every other thing in the world and not be so immersed in my own stupid life.
my h doesn't even know about the party- he hasn't called since fri and is probably with ow. i hate him btw- did i say that yet today???
i guess i don't have much to say- it was such a dreary rainy day and they kept having news on about the kids that were shot and of course i blubbereed alot today- for them, for me- for everyone. I've always liked christmas alot- it just makes me blue lately- oh well. miss those who are gone kind of blue- and my sitch doesn't help that a bit.
oh well -i'll survive it i'm sure- as usual- and hope 2013 is a much better year.
i'm gong to go have a treat (2 sleeping pills - they're very mild) and enjoy a good nite sleep for a change.
hope your evening is okay- about being afraid of a social life (i think your feelings are entirely normal) - i don't look forward to even thinkng of dating. i don't remember the fun with anyone othr than h and cannot imagine ever feeling this way bout someone else.
i've thought of it giving him reason to chuck it all-
BUT - my buddy ray- who apparently knows?? - says don't worry- love will find you.
it's a nice thought- i'm going with it. it' makes me feel nice- to think it.
i'm outt ahere- wet from walking- chillie and tired. good nite
xxo
oh geeez - we just had a phone conversation. i do not know why i picked up the phone- i guess as usual i welcome contact
It's ok! You went there and you have to let yourself off the hook. We all reach this point, you loved him and if you didn't react this way then maybe you never did.
Your the one with feelings and emotions, don't apologize for that. It's his issue when he needs you to comply to his crazy request to be carefree with his life. You had h to yourself, he changed the game, broke the rules, you get to hate it.
I stopped reading midway and couldn't help but yell out "she's there" there being at the point where your not afraid of the outcome as much because you don't know how much you want him back or even L him anymore.
It gives you guts, guts to speak your mind a little more, guts to challenge H to talk, explain, express something damit! It feels hurtful afterward but as time goes on it starts to feel empowering, knowing that it is really making you stronger, and helping you untwine yourself from him, not sitting back only watching him untwine from you.
he just accuses me of being too dramatic and says am i saying relatonships are "it's all or nothing" - ( IS THIS GUY for real??? . duhhh- of course it's all or nothing in my heart. sharing love and sex with ow is not something i like living with.) he says he is not like "other people" - he doesn't have relationships that are soooo rigidly demarcated
You believe it's all or nothing there for it is! Simple as that, it is your life and your opinion that counts! He knew this and made the change, you don't have to except it, simple as that. I don't think you said anything wrong here, you are taking a stand, good for you!
The one thing I would like to suggest is don't bring up the past anymore, accept what he told you it was good and have your good memories. If you ask again he may start to rewrite it and give you answers that will crush you!
Your getting the spew of how he doesn't want to loss you, I really think they mean it when they say that. Now you know he's not trying to be "with" ow as a partner, they have nothing intwining them (house, accounts) it is superficial and for now. After all these yrs of knowing the biotch he is only at this point and he is holding on to you, sounds like he doesn't know jack sh!t about what he wants.
This is were it is so important to know and learn what you want. This is were I'm at because even though H is here, not having an PA, it still makes me face a man that is not the man I loved. I have love for him, but I can't live on that alone.
I hope you get some vets to chime in here because I am asking some of the same questions you are. I would not bring things up for a while again, be that pleasant person when he comes home, you, don't reach, just be yourself.
You want to start really thinking about what boundaries you are going to implement, you really need to do this much, step back from him as an H and see if you can just get along while he's there as people. No R talk, thoughts, actions, just two people, to see if that connection is still there at least.
I would go as far as friendly contact as a greeting if that's what you do, and nothing else. Don't treat him like a leper though, just don’t be on guard. Do the same things you did when you first met him and were just getting to know him.
quote:"Perspective changes our attitude. Changing our attitude breathes hope into us. Hope. Like sunshine, it only breaks through to us when we remove the clouds of self-pity". Sit quietly and having answers come to you?
Especially while he's there at least for the holiday's. I like that you said can you talk, this would be good if you guys can go somewhere not home, and speak with out attack or words in mouth, and get to the reality of the sitch. You need to let him know that you not ok with any of this, nicely, and he is going to have to figure out some things for himself.
Then you have to know what you want...yea I don't know that either! I don't want this boring H, broken, and lost. Yours may not be broken (at least outwardly) but he is lost. He will be old one day, have to slow down, that will require one L, and one commitment, one house, and you will not be his fallback!
Are you on his hospital ''to call'', are you his beneficiary, how entwined financially are you, these things all matter. He is not seeing the reality to any of this. They don't for a long time.
You did fine...no regrets! (((((((nero)))))))) stay strong and read some good things here!
The one thing I would like to suggest is don't bring up the past anymore, accept what he told you it was good and have your good memories. If you ask again he may start to rewrite it and give you answers that will crush you!
i agree - i'll write myself a note- i forget and wonder what the heck i heard and what i imagined. i have trouble taking all this stuff in when i'm emotionally charged up - and then being able to straighten it all out inmy mind, recall, digest, etc. i am not at my best in those conversations.
back in fl - last time we "talked" about this junk - he was doing a major re-write. it was amazing that he'd even try and pass it off as real. i told him he was losing his marbles. if he thought he was speaking accurately- then he'd better go get committed - that's how wacked out it was.
i swear- my theory about distortion of major proportions takng place inside the troubled brain - when no verbal outlet of one's ideas. they get soooo insane - and goofy and seem so okay- it's scary. noticed with my alcoholic sister , who also had some serious mental problems . it's sad as hell - don't get me wrong- but it must sound okay while it's inside their heads.
I would not bring things up for a while again, just be yourself.
i know- believe me i was sorry as hell the minute i began to speak and realized it was the very thing i was ill-prepared to do. i do not want to hear some thing FINAL FROM HIM- yet i am crazy being on hold for soooooooo long. sometimes i think nothing can be worse than this not-knowing junk. the uncertainty kills ya. me - Not being able to feel accepted for who i am (*anymore) makes it difficult to just chill out and be me. i can feel that i'm not just free & easy. he doesn't know that he is not able to be hmself with me- when he's got this junk going on. we're able to interact pretty okay and companionable- but there's this - disconnect thing. i feel compelled to hold back any affection or warmth usually- and same for him. it's sad. maybe he doesn't feel it- sometimes i get close- we got this big honkin "thing" between us - stopping us
he thinks it's perfectly logical and fine (somehow) to have a good friend and let it go down that road. i think he's out of his tree. i don't know what i will accept- honestly, after a point i don't see myself living with her in the mix forever. i just think, if i'm honest & realistic, at some point it kills what i still do feel (whatever that is).
You want to start really thinking about what boundaries you are going to implement, you really need to do this much, step back from him as an H and see if you can just get along while he's there as people. No R talk, thoughts, actions, just two people, to see if that connection is still there at least.
I would go as far as friendly contact as a greeting if that's what you do, and nothing else. Don't treat him like a leper though, just don’t be on guard. Do the same things you did when you first met him and were just getting to know him.
you know - wierdly enough - we can do this- be "buds" and get along. keep it light. it's me that feels churned up inside sometimes becasue i want it to be more - from him i want to feel the affection like i used to. i know it's bad form- i don't express that or say it- or act like it- i'm casual & cool. i wouldn't think i exude affection either- he's kind of leading us along here- he apparently "saves" himself for her. gag gag gag, It's that his tail doesn't wag around me most of the time anymore- i am insulted & hurt about it. yeah, i know- stow it.
i don't treat him like a leper. I can't even remember flirting- i know i used to- have to think about how that goes.
quote:"Perspective changes our attitude. Changing our attitude breathes hope into us. Hope. Like sunshine, it only breaks through to us when we remove the clouds of self-pity". Sit quietly and having answers come to you?
if i had to say- it's not so much self-pity as needing to re-construct what the heck has gone on- so i can understand. or begin to. don't know why it seems important to know it all- just does. i won't bring up past again. being suddenly plunged into this giant cesspool of suspicion- i have a hard time seeing beyond it. it's an awful & dangerous place i guess- re-inspecting the past. i'll try and quit it now. fingers crossed.
as far as self-pity- i'd say i've been jacked up royally- i don't say he had a gun to my head. i was a fool gladly i guess- it was my personality and decision to be trusting & put good spin on things. he views anythng in the universe that isn't praise of him as me being a "victim". he's such a jerk in that respect- no one has feelings at all but him.....
need to go try and fix mom's tv - back later oon
(won't do that again i guess any time soon)
needing to re-construct what the heck has gone on
I hear you, but my experience is that there are no answers that will satisfy me enough to justify or make me feel any better.
it was my personality and decision to be trusting & put good spin on things. - no one has feelings at all but him.....
That's how I feel...like I was fooled or a fool. I guess that's what it feels like to be hit sideways. But, we have to get past that feeling in order to get back to ourselves.
Life has become all about H, no one else matters, deserves respect or has a hard time in life. That's who they are now I guess, maybe always deep down it was who there really where.
We are the best people we know...why is it so hard to give us the same kid glove treatment we give them? I really don't want to go back to my R as now that I am on the outside looking back, it was not enough for me.
H was not enough of a giver of himself, there were yrs of isolation which translates to neglect for me. ME! YOU! WE have to learn these are better words to use in our vocabulary!
oh geeez - are you right.
I just ran over to my sisters for another cup of coffee and (she's got some) christmas cookies. we chatted a bit about this and that.
i'm back swirling round, changing sheets, etc. an old friend is visiting this afternoon. the very least a person should be able to expect is a bathroom that is not scary.
ANYWAY- SO HERE AM I thinking about "talking" to you this morning- and honestly- i am also thinking about possibility of h seeing ow day before he comes here.
that he "checks in" when he gets home- what for? to make sure i'm still there??? is that what this all is- a stupid game and he dances with danger - goes up to see this ow and has - what? wonderful time - then comes home to see if i'm still hanging in there? is that all it is???
like when you bite down on that sore tooth to see if it still hurts.
so- i'm wondering if it's SOOOOOO UNSTOMACHABLE ALL OF A SUDDEN because it's christmas time and we all should be happy and feeling the good will of the season and here are we- miserable little specimens all crapped on and unhappy???
so- is that all there is??? is it because of christmas and other times of the year it seems less disgusting to be unhappy- or swallowing this junk and "trying" and so on???
is this incredibly simple - or incredibly complex??? sometimes it seems one- sometimes the other.
this ow thing is absolutely gross and when you say you dread the 12 days and his phone calls, etc.- you know- me too.
why do i need to feel aprehensive walking around a corner in case he's got her on the phone- text or computer. i know i just blanket it over and HATE technology.
maybe i just hate him- and don't have the guts to face it yet. maybe he's a security blanket because of longevity- but nothing more. maybe maybe maybe - blah blah blah.
see what i mean??? is it me (us?) or the season - or them (well, we KNOW it's them) but hwat the heck are we doing with this knowledge? should we be doing someting- or still laying low and flying below the radar. will they get ugly if we force the "end".??? one wonders. i don't think you know aperson til they are cornered- i'm always afraid of giant conflict. it's me- no apology. (can't we all just get along).
can we tra la thru the holiday? wtf dawn????....
is this what you're feeling today? yikes !! tranquilizers anyone???
xxo
Nero - relax! It's not the holiday, it's going to be there when the days pass, and H will leave, come back and nothing will have changed. NO, it is what it is without excuse.
These guys are dug so deep in their stand for what they are going to do it is up to us to stop, get a grip, and come to some kinda reality that we need to back away from the R, (not the man cause that isn't going to happen) and start to do what we need to do.
Your right! It is in our time at our discretion. Maybe we don't like having so much power of choice, IDK. But, were the only one's who can do this. I think more that it's we don't what the power, we have to get over wanting what we want (our lives back) and move the F** on with our lives.
I feel very snarky these days and it does help me get stronger. My face book cover page says: when I stop giving a F** about you, good luck getting that back! I don't hate you, I'm just done with you! My aunts and cousins went into a tail spin wondering what the hell happened to sweet little dawn.
Well she's on hold until someone deserve her to come back. It does get easier when you stop caring so much about h and what he's doing!
BTW Your post on my thread is there, I don't think it's lost.
hey hi-
oh cripes - you're so rite- wish i could relax. i know i've said to you a thousand times - i feel so "done" with this all.
this is the very first time i ever thought to myself- maybe there is no way back. he's pushed it too darn far! he was saying yesterday that he's been down there alone almost the whole time except a few days with her- wtf - does he think any time with her is okay- what planet is this guy living on????? that's where i just had to say "when you're with her- i hate you. " do you think anything is okay with me?
idk either- about anyting anymore. aside from fact that my house is now cleaner than in a long long time. been running arouold friend coming over- he's n town for holiday- he got divorced a year or so ago- just a hanging buddy kinda guy. he had same deal but rite off the bat just told his wife - pick- him or me.
she picked other guy. who knows - we talk and talk about wtf - no one does know.. ya know? anyway - we laugh like hell aboutolden days and so on- so should be okay and chill-worthy.
it's soooo pitiful - everyone's stories. windy outside - what is going on here with this weather? doesn't know if it's winter or spring or what.
i don't know why this is bugging me so darn muc. i think of h and ow - i think of his possiblity of seeing her in town before he leaves (my fabrication by the way) but doable. she's got family in town- may be coming in. I can't beli3ve he's coming here on the 23rd. wtf - why the heck bother? what the heck can christmas with me mean to him if he can barely get her for it. what the heck am i decorating house for- who the heck does this guy think he is? and who is he- by the way anyway.
i want to just call and ask him rite out- then i want to say HAVE HER. YOU PICKED - YOU GOT IT.
GOODBYE
Good morning - Just checking in to see how your doing! They said we are expecting snow for the first time this year, maybe that will be nice!
I haven't spoken to H for 2 days, no real reason, I'm just not in the mood to tip toe around my actions and words (still snarky) so I opted not to talk instead of changing my attitude.
Seriously, he makes me sick 3.75% of the time he's home and the other time things fluctuate from nice to eehh! The nice is nice and I'm not going to take away from that but it's not my life!
I think it's nice your having a house guest. I actually like guest, sometimes it can be so fun. You sound like your doing good things with yourself in the midst of all the crap. I do believe even though were feeling like we are, that we are actually growing and learning, maybe even detaching more that we know.
Here's hoping!
hey hi-
i'm joining you in hoping this is having some effect in life that is good in the long run.
i'm feeling kind of nutty- took a little baby tranquilizer i have around from ancient times (they're soooo old- but still seem to take the edge off) it's amazing how long - maybe five years at least!! YAY!!!
ANYWAY- feeling a bit chilled. visited like mad - long and hard. this guy is funny- but sure can talk. we clash over politics a bit- but it was fun - even dragged him over to visit with mom since knows her too from olden days. nice change of pace for her-
so- painted this morning for last several hours, just an little project i wanted to make for several friends & my neice. they came out good- so yay -just need to finish and gliter up a bit.
need to wash hair and go shop- h called a couple times from the flea market in fl - about somestuff he was finding- should he get- did i want? i swear- sometimes it's so same as my life used to be- i forget it's not. that nothing has changed (i guess anyway- in his head or heart).
i don't like fee3ling exiled. and i do. he doesn't get it- that fl was my place to live for 30+ years too. i don't know what to think or do about me being more demanding- i sure am not a demanding person. i'd prefer to have what is offered in life- rather than be demanding.
never sure if it's genuinely given if i DEMAND. KNOW WHAT i mean? oh well- i'm too tired to go around and round in my brain today- onto the hair- the shopping- dropping off mom's laundry - etc. lots of "chores" which i totally fritter my life away doing- which actually - don't mean a thing - just hampster in the wheel.
i need some meaning & purpose- auhhhh- me and everyone in the universe huh? i'd say the eternal quest of most humans- find meaning....
wish me luck. i'm working on sending out vibes to the universe for a really really superlative 2013 and changes that make us all happier - i'll leave it there.
hope your day is good- i'd love some snow. we've had really alot of rain and rathr warmish weather- i'm soo discomboobilated - i don't care much. maybe i'll start caring today and get some spirit- a girl can hope0==
seeya later. have a good one .
Oh, Nero -
Your sound like such a great hearted women. We are both such saps for love and companionship it's crazy to think anyone (in their right mind) would put us through such horrible trials. Does God really not give us more than we can handle?
Your days to come with your H home are going to be trying at best. I pray that he keeps his sh!t to himself and only gives you the best of what you deserve. These mlc'ers here have really got some nerve how the're willing to treat others especially the L of their life.
I feel that when a person, not matter who they are, eventually needs to push on and remove themselves from being abusive and ignorant and just be gone.
I am making almond crescent cookies remembering how I would then roll them in powdered sugar and present them to H, a small plate just for him, no sharing with kids. I never neglected him as some H's say because I became a mom, I always took time to make him be special, be L'ed.
WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG! My H says that to me so much, I have to convince myself he's right, and no amount of changing (hair, makeup) will get him to change, it's his crazy ride. Your H was with you for so long, don't believe for a second, your the bad guy here!!!!!
Yea, we're growing balls alright, my S21 said just that, get some mom, or I will lend you mine because your not getting anywhere being so excepting. That's what I call my new snarky attitude. H hates is, he wants me to stay fragile and sweet, bulls--t!
NOw I am sending you good vibes with your H at home, stay strong, stay cool, stay Nero!
((((()))))))
NOw I am sending you good vibes with your H at home, stay strong, stay cool, stay Nero!
hey hi- geeez - i'm so wacky, i think i just wrote toyou a minute ago n your thread- and i can't remember if i just read yours or sent mine. duhhhhh.
thanks- i'm trying to grow some as well. maybe the sad truth is that we accepted them and every single little quirk and fault because that is what love is to us- and we've spoiled them.
i'm not saying they get to say it or use it (against us). it stinks and is plain ole wrong. maybe that's the upshot of human love anc caring- some people on the receiving end just take it for granted and end up sucking it up and nothing is ever ENOUGH?!]\\\\
OH WELL- today it's his problem - his neurosis. i'm just riding along- have eaten two sticky buns loaded with sugar and nuts al5eady- and am full (tho, AWARE) OF ALLLL THE wonderful mucnchies around here needing attention.\
i'm such a hopeless junk food addict - well, sweets really and goodies - perfect christmas attitude rite?
you're rite - we can do it and we will. grow ba_ls and all- but we have to VERY CAREFULLY make sure to retain our natures that let us believe in love, kindness, ultruism- and all the things that make us who we are.
i find with my mother- i'm really making a point and fightng hard to be kind and understand the problems of age. the bit where she's just a snottty person and HAS ALWAYS enjoyed the fight and makng some poor sap squirm- may seem newish to me- apparently has alwsy been there for years and years - i'm just obvlious.
ANYWAY- MY POINT - I THINK we can ball up but still retain the best of our natures - even if it involves A HELL OF ALOT MORE covering up our soft parts- that might be crucial too- self-defense of a most basic nature.
if our only crime with these guys (all the usuals aside) is tht we loved too darn hard and too thoroughly and too slavishly- well, we can work on the slavish- maybe still keep the rest??? i'm thinkng that might be me-
i can become more patient- detached and diplomatic. i'm not sure i want 5to let go of my notions of what true love is?
i'm still trying hard to participate in believing about hte lighthouse- mlc and the bit of "this is the "thin" of thick and thin.
we'll see how that goes. glad you're STILL STANDING>
HANG N THERE and have a great day.
xxoo
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR - TO ANYONE ROAMNG BY.
I HOPE WE ALL HAVE A WONDERFUL NEW YEAR COMING - AND THAT 2013 BRING ALLLL KINDS OF SUCCESS (OR UNDERSTANDING) OR EVEN MORE FORTITUDE TO US ALL-
A YEAR AGO- I WAS SOOOO darn "in a fog" and just going thru the motions in life. i'm not cured - and neither is my h or my sitch - HOWEVER i at least feel a bit more perky- am still here trying (dbing) - actually get creative now or then and can enjoy some of the things i normally do in life- rather than a year ago totaly miserable & living in land of the living dead -
so yay and i'm grateful for it- and for this place to come to and for everyone tht's shared their story & wisdom.
thanks- it would be a different story & life for me i'm sure if i'd never found this- for bettr or worse.
good luck to everyone - maybe we'll all achieve some success & peace of mind in 20l3- and i'll take it. whatever comes...
hope everyone out there comes thru this with a new appreciation for their own strength of character xxoo
Hey Nero - my last post ending doesn't pertain to you. I am just a little upset that nobody writes on my thread and I read others who go back and forth with some really great inspiration.
Yea, I read it, though it's addressed to them who posted, because it is for the benefit of all. I get that, but sometimes I want/need a personal comment, you know, not a one size fits all!
I am done, your right, but am I right? Every ounce of my being want to be a million miles away from my H, is that a good thing?
Isn't human life suppose to be more than fun and comfort. It's suppost to be about humanity and love and endurance, but he won't let me. SO I say F** him!
What else should I do? It only doesn't hurt when I say this! I don't want to hurt any more so I flip the bird, and walk away for my h and any hope!
oh man-
i feel the same way today. watching my mother for the last three days- feeble as a baby - can't walk much less stand up- 88, sick as a dog - old old old-
i don't want to spend the rest of my days with my h , like this(as you say - miserable) i'll get back-
can't really write- roaming prying eyes- ou're rite= there's more to life than this crappola-
guess if they can't be better - be more tous - we've got to take the bull by the horns - it's hard tho....
I feel the same Dawnmarie,no one ever replies to my messages,not sure ho long it takes to get off moderation!
Nero- I am very sorry to hear about your mom, I pray things go well! I have been a bit bottled up here so I haven't written much. I just had to give you good wishes for your momma!
((())) sending a big hug for both of you!
hey hi and thanks.
I think now that she's re-hydrated and hopefully will get over the darn "cold" soon (?) and can actually eat and enjoy it- should blob up and be okay (well, back to hernorm).
it's sad that the minute you're "old" everyone is sitting around judging you and thinking you're crazy and not worth the effort (doctors & etc) becasue you're "old" and "crazy" - it's so dismisive and belittling. people don't even see it- my sisters, they don't see her for weeks at a time- see her- are mortified and just think - oh well, she's "old" and "crazy".
cripes- if life were only so cut and dry. i feel protective even when i'm mad at her constantly for her complaining, etc.
it's a sad and bad set of circumstances- being old & invisible and useless. oh well- i can't fix it- i can understand it.
i do my best. thanks fo the good wishes and hug-= we'll take it'
are you okay and doing okay? are you going to survive the 12 days?
xxo
Hi - hope your better when you get this in the morning. I have to go to bed but will return to reply to your post, here and on my thread. Stay focused, I'll be back!
I'm sorry to read that your mother is under the weather. Hopefully the medication and "rest" will help her and she'll be home soon.
BTW, your mother at 88 isn't old. She's still got some living to do. It sounds like she might be a little bit depressed w/her current situation. Does she have any particular interests, i.e., reading, or doing puzzles, gardening, etc.?
It's difficult for the seniors in our society because everyone thinks that once you hit a certain age, you should sit in a corner and just stay there. It's not the case because there are many would live to be in their mid 90s, as well as older and still have productive lives, but it's done in their time, their way.
hey hi and thanks for note'
you are sure right- i do think this woman has something to offer in life- and a long(ish) way to go. i wish i could (quickly and easily) find a way for her to contribute. she could easily help someone from another country learn to read english- our library & school doesn't have such a program- but wouldn't it be a good idea? corral the old people around who still have patience and something to contributre.
how the heck to get it going- is anyone's idea. anyway- i agree.
she is a bit depressed - all her friends are dead- on the other hand- she's glad to be alive. she needs to be of use to someone- that's really what she wants/needs.
I GET bummed by the feeling that it's my total responsibility in life to save her- from boredom, grim reaper, whatever.
she's (additionally) a very scrappy, complainie character. i am really over it with her. just proximity- i need to get a handle on it- at this moment i want to walk out of her life, h live, my life, etc. i'm just havnig a 'I AM DONE" MOMment in life.
i'm praying for wisdom- patience, the ability to get thru this in a day or two and continue on with my normal amount of fortitude.
just a big big "down & ready to end this madness" spell- send me a wish for grace (or something) in the face of my current lousy attitude. if i ever get rid of this cold- maybe it'll go away too???
ooooor - maybe i really am 'DONE" AND something is about to happen to shove me some other way in life- which to hope for- which to avoid?????
btw - she's home, a visiting nurse is going to stop by a few times so that will be a little "social" event for her- and maybe she'll eat a bit and drink a bit and get stronger-
still got that stupid ole optimism thing in there (somewhere). woo hoo thank you for your good wishes. xxo
hey hi-
glad to hear your little "voice". I'm hanging in there and hope you are as well. . this darn cold is killing me. going to sit & read a bit. or hot bath. spent last few hours at mom's (visiting nurse- sister (oiy!!!) - thank goodness her husband wasn't around.
i've had it with the lot- keeping a wrap on that - trying to just stay away for awhile.
will be back later- freezing & need something hot to d4ink or something.
i'm a lousy patient- too impatient to be good at being sick & gracious. i need to feel great - and feel it now.
wish me luck with that...xxoo
nero,
In my area we have something called senior citizen's day care. A van/bus comes by and picks the person up and takes them to a local meeing area where they have bingo, reading, knitting, etc. I know several who do this and they enjoy getting out and it provides a little bit of independence for them. They even have lunch served w/snacks.
You might want to check out the local "elder care" organization to see what they offer. Your mother needs to be interacting w/other people and not just people her age. She needs to feel needed and wanted, i.e., putting in her "value added" time.
((((Nero)))) sorry to hear you sick with a cold
They can be the worst thing to get over, it really can take a toll. I hope your all snuggled up with some tea or soup, you don't want to be cold with a cold.
I'm glad to hear your mom is back home, it's best at that age to be home, especially if she can have care given.
Oh, do I know the need to feel great. I long for laughter, fun times, love and warmth, temp. and physical warmth would be wonderful. We have been beat down, continue to be in an unhappy sitch, and left for dead, well not quite, but left for sure.
I have accepted that my M and H will never be able to return to what was. It helps I guess in the grieving process, I feel like I spent the summer grieving for the death of my M, and the disappearance of my H. I would like to never feel like that again, thank you!
I feel better but still live in a bit of confusion as to were I am headed. He's to sick to be on his own, I'm to unemployed, we're too entwined still and could not afford D, or even separate housing.
I have to admit I am really starting to miss passion in my life. I miss holding hands, a kiss, a nudge, even just the look that passes between a couple. I like men...I don't hold any ill feelings for the lot of them.
I feel like at this time I am just riding it out to see what will be the end result. As alien as H is how could anyone come out of this without consequences? A miracle of God would have to be shot throughout his body in order for him to be the man I would want in my life.
I'm not holding my breath, I have never been so disillusioned about a human being that I loved soo much. I know you and all who read this really get that, we are all truly a special bunch who may be given just about all that we can handle.
Does God really not give us any more than that....oh I pray, do I pray!
Nero, take care of yourself. I love to order Chinese/Thai food when I'm sick and eat up all those veggies and soups to stay warm. That bath sounds awesome...you deserve the pampering!
hey hi-
We have been beat down, continue to be in an unhappy sitch, and left for dead, well not quite, but left for sure.
you actually had to make me laugh with this comment- it's so true. even if the "left" is mental detachment on their part-
so, all things being considered - in my long long (or so it feels) life of 62 yrs- i'd say this particular "thing" is the worst one that's ever happened TO ME. NO KIDDING. IT'S a very big sort of realization and sounds soooo goofy "out loud". when i consider the people- tv shows, music, movies, etc. that surround us alllllll the time (not to mention tabloids!!!) alllll carrying on and on about everyone's divorces, broken herts- partners switching around here and there- it's awful. i am glad i've never dealt with it before- i wonder if that's why i cannot just quite (yet) see it as the total end forever here. (my r)(of whatever nature) with h.???
i've spent 47 years with two men- mostly one. i think i've been lucky- (it's surely run out now- my luck). doesn't change my essential (and maybe fatally wrong) optimism. (it's "nearly" dead- but i find not quite. i still am that same old person who isn't positive i'm totally "defeated".
oh man-
I feel like I spent the summer grieving for the death of my M, and the disappearance of my H. I would like to never feel like that again, thank you!
I feel better but still live in a bit of confusion as to were I am headed
Ta Da - well put- me too.... yeah - where the heck are we "on our road" to?? i'm askin ya.
I have to admit I am really starting to miss passion in my life. I miss holding hands, a kiss, a nudge, even just the look that passes between a couple. I like men...I don't hold any ill feelings for the lot of them.
me either really (tho i am suspicious of all the secret baggage most seem to have). it's merely that i do not know- nor can i imagine who that "other person" might be that would appeal to me. it's been like forever since i've had that kind of a feeling about some other man. i wonder why i am sooo unable to fathom someone else being in the knd of r we had- which was essentially someting i think fit us both so darn well- (apparently i'm wrong about him-) but this is me speaking. for me- i wonder if there's someone as liberal and free from all the usual pitfalls of men - i do not know. it sounds very dumb now that i'm saying it out loud. this is a NO THINKER kind of thing- one could never imagine who and what presents itself in life- i'm stopping rite here imaginging one darn thing.
it will be a mighty tough act to follow for anyone- should be interesting- that one thing. i do not at this moment tho- have a desire to date & make it happen. probaby age- i'd like it- but i'd like it to fall on my head thanks. same with job- want it- lazy girl about "getting" it- would also like tht to fall on my head.
not likely to happen i know- but hey - my fantasy here today. viola' life turns great & falls on my head.
I feel like at this time I am just riding it out to see what will be the end result. As alien as H is how could anyone come out of this without consequences? A miracle of God would have to be shot throughout his body in order for him to be the man I would want in my life.
again- well put- mirrors my own feelings at this moment.
I'm not holding my breath, I have never been so disillusioned about a human being that I loved soo much.
i know- would you ever in your wildest moment forseen this? i still (while believe me- i've accepted) find it like an increedibly bad bad dream & hard to fathom it being reality. i know it is- i have moments of slipping back to the "why" thought and immediately stopping it. i cannot think about this crap any more- i just can't. i can hardly talk bout it- i just don't even want to hear myself- think about it- anything.
I am DONE DONE DONE - REALLY. i HOPE ALSO that there is a God looking over us and this business of never more than we can stand- well, i don't know. i think we just endure and endure in response to what is heaped on. if you saw anything like this coming- you could not possibly "do it". if it blind-sides you, the combination of will, surprise, hope, optimism- intestinal fortitude, whatever - just makes you keep taking that stupid ole one more step- one more, one day, one
nurse at mom's - gotta go. keep the faith deariexxoo
Hi Nero, I may not know where I'm headed but I know I will not let my H take me down. I have spent these days reading up on and putting some things in place for my safety.
The biggest debt we have is this house, and as far as credit cards I have untangled that mess today. H opened a card today in his name only absorbing the little bit of debt we have from his tools onto his own credit.
With grown kids, no other property, and an agreement on the cars, I think I can get pretty untangled from him by spring. I have not decided to file yet but incase he springs it on me the only response I want to have is, when!
Health insurance is my biggest worry, but I guess getting a job would help with that, huh! I have been reading alot about D and how to be prepared and things to make sure my L would have in place. It's getting less scary everyday.
Honestly, I would go out tom. if I was asked. I am so disgusted by h that I would love some confirmation that there are some good men out there. We're not defeated, defeat would imply we gave them the power to take us down, hell no!
Do you miss your H when he's gone, is it getting easier to not have him there knowing that it's not ''him'' anyways? I don't miss anything because nothing comes home, well maybe an ashtray oh and a grouch, no I don't miss mine.
I hope your feeling stronger from your cold. It's not a good feeling doing it alone but come spring you will blossom and be stronger than last, because there is know where for us to go but back up. We are not MLC, yea, that's all them. $ucks to be them!!!
Good to be you....
hey hi-
nice to hear your voice. you sure sound positive and on an upward slant there. good for you. i guess getting "used to" an idea is the worst part. you sound pretty much resigned to thinking d is the way you'll go. either by decision or default-
I just erased the rest of my note here and will come back later. i'm crabby and unpleasant. i'll spare you- (whattagal)
back later - glad you sound so good. yay
xxo
Hi Nero,
I think I'm doing it the hard way also but if I really want to keep up with a thread that I wrote on I go into, my stuff - posts, to at least check on those I have written to. If I have a favorite I need to read and read, there're a few, I bookmark it, cause those are usually the ones for when I'm upset.
The site itself stays in my favorite or most visited...the first page of my search engine. It's really about searching for me, but I love research, I like when I stumble upon something new and useful.
You have to read the link on my thread it is such a revealing story, sad , true, and I learned some thing new for myself. On the left side bar there are other interesting reads as well.
I read that this is the worse thing we can go through and in some cases it's worse than being a widow, at least the dead don't taunt you, it's just over and you live with your beautifull memories. I'm glad I read that cause I have been thinking it, oh have I ever, especially when he screams for it, I'm like "do you hear him".
But, I have to learn more and more everyday not to focus on him and learn who I am....ok it's hard for me but its my only way to move on, I really want out of here.
I can't imagine another summer alone on my porch watching Netflix alone at night just to get away from him on the couch or cause he's galavanting around town.
I don't want to care anymore....at all, until he, if he, wakes up, but I'm not waiting, he would have to come find me. Meanwhile I need a life...not shopping, eating out, driving to further malls just to be out. I need to really have some meaning, something,someone to make me smile when I get up in the morning.
I see you get up very early, I know your east coast, I have this habit of sleeping in late so I don't have to face the day, then stay up late because the night doesn't have a weather pattern, it's not partly sunny or gray, it's just night, I have s.a.d. So it's another thing to add to may sadness.
Your still more active than I, but I was never good at busy work. I'm thinking of going back into doing the carpentry around here I used to be pretty strong and pull out toilets and drywall, in my own house. H and I got close like that when we met, he was a hard working carp who taught me a lot at a rehab place he bought, good honest man he was.
http://www.thehouseontherock.net/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140029848&sec_id=140003648This link helped me see were that good guy went, I think you will like it as well. Your h had to be a good guy once because you loved him.
Hi Nero,
Just checking in on you, hope all is well with your mom and your own cold. Don't be alone in your house and your DVD player. I would hate to think your not at least off doing some that resembles GAL.
I know this has been a long road of misery, and you want nothing more than for it to be out of your life, as we all do!
Write soon...we're here for you!
Best dm
hey hi-
thank you for tips - i'm going to write them down and try and use- i have tried the posts place- i get confused. i tghink i just need to corral my self and dicipline me more about looking and searching. my impatience i guess.
i've never tried bookmark - so i will. i tried to click & go to that story you men6ioned- i couldn't find it- but will try again.
I read that this is the worse thing we can go through and in some cases it's worse than being a widow, at least the dead don't taunt you, it's just over and you live with your beautifull memories.
\i've thought about this a million times too- it is true d4finitely. at least if a person died and left you- they surely didn't choose it. this business of this betrayal being their choice- that's the killer. they are CHOOSING to hurt us- abandon, whatever.
I don't want to care anymore....at all, until he, if he, wakes up, but I'm not waiting, he would have to come find me
me either. i feel that way too. too darn much rejection going on here- me and this stupid sister of mine, h, it's very difficult to swallow that people you care about are avoiding you and proud of it. i guess that says it all- i need to just get the heck out of this all - (how you ask? not sure- but know it)
I need to really have some meaning, something,someone to make me smile when I get up in the morning.
again- you are mirroring my own thoughts. it's true- it doesn't happen over nite. unfortunately -with the someone to have fun with, etc.- i've never thought we can walk out and "make that happen" -it's got to just happen. you know- i view love like the old metaphor about a butterfly landing on your stupid ole head (rather than chasing and chasing).
i guess as we slowly go about "OUR" lives and just get used to being us - by our selves- hopefully something (and not some bird pooh - will land on our heads - love ideally - who knwos what?) i'm willing to think there can be a million gajillion variations of othe5r kinds of lives and relationships- we only need to "be open" maybe - hopefully- i'm thinknig.....
Your still more active than I, but I was never good at busy work. I'm thinking of going back into doing the carpentry around here I used to be pretty strong and pull out toilets and drywall, in my own house. H and I got close like that when we met, he was a hard working carp who taught me a lot at a rehab place he bought, good honest man he was.
wow- i would LOVE to be confident and try some carpentry. i'm pretty self-sufficient kind of gal- always think good workmen are few and far between and best job can be done by us- we'll live with it and appreciate it and really take the pains. i've had some amazingly scary workmen - who did amazingly junky work. h does stuff and is suchhhh a perfectionist- i'm spoiled a bit. i'm kind of messy- but afraid a bit of big power tools - i am very very careless and get engrossed and then (using a bandsaw on some wooden shapes i was cutting) found myself carelessly flicking away wood bits with my finger- rite there BY THE MOVING BLADE. i nearly fainted i was so surprised at my lack of attention. SO NOW i think i might cut off a finger or something- certainly not while i'm so fogged up and unfocused.
funny you saying about not being a "out of the house" action kind of gal. me 3ither. i was when we met- i got all home-ish and reclusive hanging around with this guy. now he's mr. outgoing and here am i?!!! i also don't want these fakie made up "gal" crap- i want real involvement and i want to wake up and look forward to day too.
i don't like the dark- it's ok- but i prefer sun. i go sit in whatever window is the britghtest. i think we're like plants & flowers- turn to the light always.
i'm a morning girl- first thing i get stuck into is the thing that gets done and gets the best of me.
This link helped me see were that good guy went, I think you will like it as well. Your h had to be a good guy once because you loved him.
he was and i did- more than anyone in the universe. hence the depth of my disgust at "this" man. i am so sick of knowing he "wants less of me in his life" - i get to the point like you- i want to be gone and done. he can just forget he ever knew me- or find me. this business of being sick- momsick - jerk of a sister- (what ffeels like) evryone screaming at me- i am at some point here- maybe a dangerous point- maybe a totally liberating point. it all seems to be jumbling together- I'M NOT SUCH a bad guy- just a person who does try hard - I HAVE HAD IT THO- and i mean it. i do not deserve these jackasses dumping on my stupid ole head- i may be a jerk- but i care. if that means nothing- i cannot make them see a darn thing- and i do not care to try anymore. if they don't find things about me to make them WANT to like me or see the good- i do not care any more.
wierd how "stuff" of all sorts all of a sudden blomps up in a giant ball and becomes all more of the same. this woman is done here.
how the heck i step out of this big mix- i do not know. they can all figure it out by themselves . one other sister says we need a meeting (frankly, i do not care to even talk to or see this youngest sister that's been avoiding me for a couple years. her anger & disapproval and JUDGEMENT make her not want to see me- 2 years of that have finished me off rite now. i don't WANT TO MEET, SEE HER OR talk. she can run everything in the universe since she's thinking i'm pushy.
oh well- what? me nutball????/ i don't think so- i have such a long long fuse- but when it's done- it's done. i hate fighting- ilose all the time- BUT i can walk away and never look back. scary - but i know it about me.
oh well- this will all happen however it does. i'm not even going to have a plan or try or call or respond. she's in the driver seat (where she's appaently been yearning to be- take it_ ) enjoy...
Hi Nero,
Have been reading your posts on various threads. Lots of interesting thoughts - I think many can relate to what you are feeling.
The thought of being alone for the rest of our lives IS scary and sad. But for me, I find that I'm focusing on being alone in the now. How I would deal with H being gone while raising two small kids. My love life - or lack of one - is definitely low man on the totem pole.
I very much miss having that kind of R in my life, miss having that R with my H. Yes, my close confidants assure me that I would have no problem finding someone else to love and appreciate me. But... I got married believing I would be with my H forever. I was prepared to be with him, and only him, for the rest of the my life.
That being said... We can't control our H's - what they think, what they feel, what they do. So, I've finally come to the fork in the road about deciding on a different path.
H's on that hamster wheel, running in place going no where. I sure as hell don't want to be running in place right along with him.
Have been rereading stuff on detachment. I have a new perspective and understanding that I didn't have earlier in the journey. Who's to say what my perspective will be 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years from now?
When you talk about GAL stuff... I understand not wanting to be fake. But, maybe doing something different and outside of your comfort zone would be something to look forward to. Plus, what talents or interests do you have? Could you volunteer or work somewhere, even part-time? Seems like you have spent many years taking care of others, which you can still continue to do. Just work on taking care of good ole Nero too.
Getting all philosophical with ya here - I do believe we all go through difficult times in our lives, more than once. And we bounce back, again and again. Our hearts may be broken, but we are still alive. A line from one of my favorite movies, Fried Green Tomatoes... " A heart may be broken, but it keeps on beating just the same."
So true.
Hope you are feeling better, and that your mother is feeling better too. Keep working on that PMA and taking care of you.
Have a nice Sunday
Nero-I don't think I will be ok until I am off this ride. I never like rides, they make me sick, and I am very sick of this one.
I'm sick of the analyzing the trial and error, the emphasis on someone else and how to treat them while they treat you like sh!t.
Especially when not-H is not worth any of this, I don't want him back.
So I'm working on the long untwining process of getting away from him!
Tell me what your h has said lately. Is there new or change to you switch, good or bad. We can't just except spring and summer to meet us with the same ole sh!t!
What's on your mine for you?
heyhi and thanks for your thoughts.
But for me, I find that I'm focusing on being alone in the now. How I would deal with H being gone while raising two small kids. My love life - or lack of one - is definitely low man on the totem pole.
interestingly - i do too. the dealing on a daily basis with being/feeling alone. i've always been okay with solitude- it's just this business of it being thrust upon me. i always had the notion in the back of my mind of my attachment with h and his with me. somehow we're still attached- but this jerk is off wandering around with ow.
i tend to get too darn GLOBAL when i think about what i'm doing and why. you saying that - makes me realize this is yet another example of that particular (flaw) mindset i have. i do acknowledge it- it still lurks in the badk of my mind. nothing is etched in stone- yet i keep thinking these decisions are BIG BIG BIG - AND WILL mean something big.
it stops me- it's what holds me up about working- it seems like it's all got to be GIANT AND FOREVER. that is nuts of course- anything can change anytime - my feelings included. yet- it symbolizes someting FINAL - and i'm not yet sure about what the final outdcome should or could be.
hearing you say it- i realize i have to quit that. i've never ever been a big planner for the future- no master plan in life - ever (well, except like you, loosely that i would love and live with this man forever-grow old together & so on). so much for that- no wonder i don't plan.
ever since my dad died when i was 18- i've realized we all don't get to choose when we go- enjoy it while you have it. doesn't make it any easier to let it all go. my life.
I very much miss having that kind of R in my life, miss having that R with my H. Yes, my close confidants assure me that I would have no problem finding someone else to love and appreciate me. But... I got married believing I would be with my H forever. I was prepared to be with him, and only him, for the rest of the my life.
that's the rub - huh? me too. i get the same feedback from friends - they like me- they believe it. i like me - sometimes i believe it - it may be true - it may not. i'd say a crap shoot in life. i've had so much in life for so long - maybe i've used up my "good" quota in life??? i sometimes wonder - h will be a hard act to follow (all the good aspects). i'm not saying impossible - i think tho, maybe unlikely. just trying to keep it a bit real. i am not making any decisions here based on bravado or false expectations.
you are sure rite about can't control them. i'm losing faith that my h will come to any brilliant & enlightened conclusions about how much he does, in fact, love me. all his good aspects aside - emotionally he is warped. i never appreciated the breadth & depth.
Have been rereading stuff on detachment. I have a new perspective and understanding that I didn't have earlier in the journey.
what would that be? if i can ask. i have trouble with this concept - because the fact that we're trying to db would seem to mean we are still "invested" in this person & r. if we achieve total detachment- why are we here & bothering? it's painful & long & unhappy process??? just our gut demanding we ride it out til we can't hang on anymore?
you are also right- there are many things i could be (and probably should be) doing outside my house and current life.
i just don't- i just do not pick up my buttons and go do it. i need to quit thinking in terms of any thing i do as being my BIG DECISION- AND FOREVER. i do tend to over-dramatize maybe. it's how i see it- if i take a serious - real job- then i am saying adios to my life in fl, my family down there (i miss the babies btw) - so on. this jerk of a h made me have a life down there to be with him - now why does he get to say i have to chuck it? i can't figure how to "have it all" (page from his book). (oh God- i don't want to be like him)
i am a bit mired in the stress of my mother situation. who died and made it
only my job tho? she's got 4 living daughters - i am working on being more detached with this too- letting the bossy younger sister who says i push everyone around (oh cripes- i wish) take charge. that usually means she issues orders from on high (and 2 hrs away) and I get to salute & perform . so far- she is not happy about not being able to "talk to me" (as in - give me my orders) about how she wants it to happen. i have gone dark on her for past few days.
it takes a toll - i am bad at having giant bad feelings in my life. (can't we all just get along- picture fingers in peace signs please)
. " A heart may be broken, but it keeps on beating just the same."
too true- thank you for your thoughts. i'd like to hear your thoughts on detachment and your new and improved outlook. if there was just confusion and not ea & ow involved- perhaps i'd be more "accepting" or understanding. i'd be curious to hear how you see your detachment.
i like your clear-thinking & agree philosophically with you. i surely hope i continue to bounce- one wonders some days.
i know it could be alot worse- i just still find myself wanting back the fun years. oh yeah- and i go around being very jealous of all my old married buddiews & people i see and wonder what the heck is so special about them that i don't inspire that kind of devotion??? oh mannnnnn.....
thanks- onward & upward huh?
xxo
Nero-I don't think I will be ok until I am off this ride. I never like rides, they make me sick, and I am very sick of this one.
I'm sick of the analyzing the trial and error, the emphasis on someone else and how to treat them while they treat you like sh!t.
ta da- i just reread my last post to you - man, what a goofball i sound like. must have said three times "i'm done".
still stands. we've reached - or passed some important point here. i'm not sure what exactly it is- i feel it tho, do you?
i cannot seem to look forward and see anything at all- just busy not imploding or exploding today. i do not know what spring will bring- daffodils are coming up- little guys.
they don't apparently know they have a couple more months of winter to go. gotta love them for being there
i guess it's good that i notice them- last year i didn't even know garden existed. i see the improvement-
i'm sure the world does not. i'm tired of the ride too- i don't go on scary rides. i just got on this one by mistake (and misplaced trust mostly).
we will extricate ourselves "in the end". i do not know when that will be- i am impatient too- it does not change who we are deep inside i guess. i can "talk" to me til i'm blue in the face with good strategy & big jazzy plans. i am not buying it- i guess we all "gotta be who we gotta be". can't put it any better.
this would (apparently & sometimes dissappointingly) be who i am. CRIPES...
SO- NOW i'm getting another cup of coffee (it's so strong it's making my hair stand on end today) - and go roam around my messy messy garden- maybe cut a few raggy dead things away & tidy one tiny bit-
list more junk on ebay- maybe pay that stupid insurance premium( they sure are a drag aren't they? i resent like heck that i'm afraid to go without insurance- but it's awful and a blood sucker to have it. oh man...
wait- that wasn't very upbeat- FORCE myself to sit at computer and do some work that will generate some immediate(ish) income & be useful and productive.
and otherwise dread the arrival - or next phone call from this dreaded "mrs executive" (so she thinks) sister that is bugging me.
hide little feather- run & hide...
ta da!! HERE WE ARE TODAY- ALIVE, SANE, HEALTHY- HATE IT, BUT STILL STANDING- SO AREN'T WE SOMETHING?????? (won't comment on what - lets just say SOMETHING SPECIAL???
XXOO (((___)))
Hey girl-
Let's talk detachment!
Such a tricky thing to wrap your head around and understand... Really, truly understand.
I think earlier on, I did get that this was not about me, so that I shouldn't take what he said and did personally. Seeing his behavior with our children - cold and distant- really helped with that. I knew, without a shadow of a doubt, that he loved them. Yet, he could not show them love.
What was difficult for me was separating his actions from me being hurt. I still struggle with this.
It does still pain me when I see him dressed up in one of his date night outfits, knowing he is going to see her. Meanwhile, he will look me right in the face and lie about where he is going.
Remember, he thinks I have no idea about OW. He "thinks" he hides it so well. What cluelessness.
I think I viewed detachment before as pretending I didn't know what was going on, just keep sticking my head in the sand.
I thought I was detached, but I was wrong. I was still watching him, waiting for that little sign that he was coming around.
I realize now that as long as he lives here, I can not fully let go and detach. And he is not really free to heal himself.
A lose/lose situation, right?
While it still hurts to know he is with someone else, I have accepted that I can't control that or anything else about him. He is free to go. But he doesn't get me.
And if I can take a moment to think highly of myself, I believe I am the best he is ever going to get. I may not be perfect, but I'm pretty damn good. He bailed on me and our M - and that is something he will have to deal with and live with.
Don't sell yourself short Nero. We don't "have" to do anything. We don't have to put up with their nonsense. We don't have to be a part of their daily lives and madness. We don't have to stop loving/caring about them either.
And yes, our "real" H's would be a hard act to follow. But we don't know if/when they are coming back.
We get to decide what WE want in the end. I see that now.
My story is still being written, and so is yours. I personally would rather be the heroine instead of the damsel in distress... How about you?
I realize now that as long as he lives here, I can not fully let go and detach. And he is not really free to heal himself.
I believe I am the best he is ever going to get. I may not be perfect, but I'm pretty damn good. He bailed on me and our M - and that is something he will have to deal with and live with
Very well written...and when I am having a good day I see this very clearly!
It's those other days that I need better control and the strength to keep moving forward! I am so wise yet so dumb at times I can hear myself getting ''more stupider''!
Quote:
I realize now that as long as he lives here, I can not fully let go and detach. And he is not really free to heal himself.
I believe I am the best he is ever going to get. I may not be perfect, but I'm pretty damn good. He bailed on me and our M - and that is something he will have to deal with and live with
Very well written...and when I am having a good day I see this very clearly!
It's those other days that I need better control and the strength to keep moving forward! I am so wise yet so dumb at times I can hear myself getting ''more stupider''!
_______
__________________
you know guys -
I totally agree and feel myself echoing both sentiments. I was in SUCH an emotional tailspin yesterday. (my mom&sister crap) It's true- all of it.
I too feel that this guy - that i cared soo darn much for and am still somehow "attached" to - is making the biggest mistake of his life. well, our lives. he's taking me out with him- and i don't have the power to stop it- fix it - or change a darn thing.
it's just a shame- and sad. i just erased my usual bunch of "goop" - all the stupid soul-searching, analyzing, etc. i must sound crazy to all you guys alot of the time.
geez - and here was me thinking i'm a perfectly nice person- normal as apple pie. part of me still does- but when i look at what i say here & how i feel about my r's in life- i sound so wacked out.
BIG THOUGHT - maybe this whole mlc - end of life as i know it- end of love - END - END - END , is an end of me being the ole pollyanna i was always in life- and the beginning of a new and more realistic , hardened a bit - me. i hope that will be a better me- i do not want it to be a bitter icky me. I DON'T LIke this "getting hard" stuff- i guess you can't lay there and bleed forever tho. people are cruel & thoughtless- i guess i need to quit making excuses for the bad behavior and treatment of others & wake up and smell the coffee. BUT - WHAT IF when we look too hard everyone is self-serving and "small" and no one out there is worthwhile any more??? once one takes off the rose colored glasses.
we're afraid of that... waaaahhhhh -
what a drag i am with all this STUFF. This is what i do not like about me. this sense of obligation & duty & guilt & the continual internal dialog & analyzing. SO- YA THINK I'M CRAZY OR WHAT???
I want to take a shower- but INSTEAD i'll go over my mothers to make sure she's getting up & okay & steady on her feet. see what i mean- my other sisters merely have to go about their lives and assume i'll do it- and i'm such a dope - i DO!
with h too- he gets to go around doing whatever he wants and he THINKS I'LL always understand & 'GET used to it" - can you just die. what an arrogant bum - he said it in there somewhere - - his assumption that i'll love him no matter what apparently.
maybe yes, maybe no. people can kill love or change it. my mother is just like him- i mean creepily so- i've apparently picked her in a mate (OH GOD). they don't realize i may feel obligation & go thru the motions- but they chip away and damage one's heart - and it's never the same.
can't flesh that out- i'm different inside to both of them. they are so worried about themselves - they inflicT a bit too much pain & think good ole me will always absorb it.
OKAY- SORRY FOR THE ICKY POOR-ME CRAPPOLA - HERE'S ME JACKING UP MY SHORTS AND GETTING ON WITH IT ALL. what a pity-sponge i sound like. i hate that i even "get like" this- i know if my life was devoid of people i'd hate it- i feel unable to deal with the junk at this moment that seems to come with everyone.
boy- dawn - like you, i need to go off on a wonderful somehow fun filled vacation somewhere - have a great time with people i like that like me- no baggage - nothing below the surface - just enjoy life at face value.
HEY- I'M DOING JUST THAT TODAY- NOT ALLOWING MYS3LF TO HAVE EVEN ONE THOUGHT THAT IS "BELOW THE SURFACE" TYPE THING- JUST KEEP IT LITE-
OH GOD - PHONE
((( ))).
Hi. Nero
I can't be in a tail spin anymore, I don't think I can mentally handle it. Yesterday I cried in the shower praying for God to get H far away from me.
He talked to me about work and I looked at him blankly, he said I don't know how to be human, I said I don't know how to be heartless. He said he knows and it's bad I am getting hurt by him.
Tonight he said goodby, and thank you for the computer, he feels guilty about how distant he is but needs to be distant..
So you see I can't be in a tailspin because he already is enough for both of us.
I really need the vacation though, I would love a beach about now or hiking in Nevada. I feel the need to be really active, you know that out of ordinary thing you only do on vacation.
Don't let family bring you down, they always feel so intitaled to be rude but I don't agree and have disowned a few members over time. Stick with who you know you are and don't let anyone tell you different.
I really need the vacation though, I would love a beach about now or hiking in Nevada. I feel the need to be really active, you know that out of ordinary thing you only do on vacation.
me too- i'd kill for a great trip- they used to really bring us together and be such fun- what a mess now.
last one he ruined with his texting - I didn't know then what the heck was going on with him. stupid me-
fun, i think i remember that- i'll take some of that too. also the intense activity- i'd like to go backpack and hike the pennine way (is that the one?) down middle of england. it's such a beautiful countryside. wonder if i could do it without getting murdered or something drastic? i need a man protector to do it i think- i'm so used to it.
anyway- hope your day was good- i'm going to drink a gallon of nyquil tonite and sleep - last nite didn't go so well.
now i'm going to go work on a porcelain doll - something just pure pleasure- see if i can still do it... enjoy & not stress
take care- hang on- xxoo ((( )))
hi takes vows -
What was difficult for me was separating his actions from me being hurt. I still struggle with this.
It does still pain me when I see him dressed up in one of his date night outfits, knowing he is going to see her. Meanwhile, he will look me right in the face and lie about where he is going.
you know- it's sooooo icky - all of this . it does hurt to know he's going to have a weekend with ow - it is awful. i am not laying here - in a fog and bleeding- but it still hurts and i suspect will forever. it's the boldfaced fact that he is "choosing her" over me.
would a person ever feel neutral about that?
i don't think so- my h just said so - rite out - on the phone. like i don't know when he doesn't call it's because he knows if he calls from his cellphone i know. well, i hate it- and a little bit maybe hate him when he does.
he may as well know- it's just not something "i'm used to" or am likely to ever get "used to". I don't or didn't rant and rave or do anything other than say - "well, goodbye then" and when he said he wasn't leaving now, i just said "there's nothing about my life i care to share with you" and got off phone. i'm soooo not one for theatrics. sometimes i wish i was- maybe i'd be wonderful and much sought-after and all that rubbish divas have. I don't march out the door- tho i wonder when/if he will. i wonder which of us is the bigger coward.
i feel your pain- it stinks to be lied to and it stinks to be told the truth. can he really believe in his pea brain that if he tells me the truth that it's "okay" on any level?
he wants to think he's a nice guy. he is soooo far from that.
what in the world - just what???? could go on in his brain??? to think it could ever be okay- and to ever stay knowing me.
oh well- i just say the same old junk over and over- how many years can i be amazed at the actions of other people. i live in some victorian novel mentality about manners and decency and niceness.
i'm going to go have a little glass of wine and try to not think about him at all. i'm doing better than ever before- but what i lack in violent reaction- i make up for in sad resignation and (maybe - defeat and withdrawal).
Don't sell yourself short Nero. We don't "have" to do anything. We don't have to put up with their nonsense. We don't have to be a part of their daily lives and madness. We don't have to stop loving/caring about them either.
honestly- i don't know what i have or don't have to do. i would like to achieve some sort of understanding here- i am tired of feeling confused and floating. i would like an answer- some stability and feel like i have a "future" looming out there. i cannot see it- i cannot see anyone to have it with- and that is my own neurosis. the pleasure i take in being anchored to & by someone. well, someone i want to be with. i guess i'll get lost and let you go - i'm just in my continual and endless loop here and i see it.
off to try and shut off mr brain so he lets me sleep- wish me luck
xxoo
i
i live in some victorian novel mentality about manners and decency and niceness
Oh my goodness Nero, me too! I have been watching Jane Austin movies from her books lately. I swear I'm a revisiting soul of my great.....grandfather who came to New York from Staffordsh England, who by the way became Supreme Court Justice for NJ.
My mom carries the last name of the town there and though we've never been, I'm so drawn, especially to the older times.
Our men don't fit the picture of what I would consider a gentleman. Mine fits the profile more of Mr. Rochester from Jane Erye, a married man who keeps his wife locked up while he carries on as if single. And, then it turn out he's weak as well, to weak to fix his life. Yea, that's my h,
I still don't think you should do anything, don't move or go away, it's your home and you wouldn't want to be considered abandoning it. I think IMHO, you need to set some boundaries w/h because your not M, it's so easy for him to just flow in and out.
You two, IMHO, who am I but a listener, need to finally sit down and work out the fact that your R is over, he has a life you will never approve of, so are you friends, or roommates, either way, your not dating. I would want that on the table all ready, only because he calls you to tell you he's leaving for out of town, go tell a buddy dude.
He's hurting you, you get devastated, he has his fun. Why is he reporting to you? Guilt that he won't call and you'll guess anyways, are you buddies now, I don't think it's to rub it in, never the less, you should be on a need to know basis about his life to give you the space you need to heal.
When he is coming to NJ he could give you a heads up but he is coming for his own business and not to get into your. Your not a couple when he's there or when he's not so why do you have to be anything but cordial?
Maybe it me, just forget all of this if your not ready. I stay out of all my h business, his work, his hunger, his bathing habits, his cell phone, everything and it has been a load off. I don't want to know, we are not friends, lovers, or anything more than two people who used to know each other.
I didn't make it this way he did, and I have to enforce it and make some of my own rules in order to not be so f***ing hurt by him.
You can detach, even completely, and still love and miss the h he was, but don't look to him to be that man. Even if he does eventually come back to you, you have to first be won over, and second start a whole new relationship from scratch.
Meanwhile, get off the NyQuil
and get started figuring out how and what your going to do to protect yourself from him. And no, he wouldn't see you detach even if he was with you, your suppose to do it for you. We don't really want to go into spring the same way, with the same pain.
Tell me to stuff it if I'm to harsh or your not ready, but at least you know your not alone.
hey hi-
you were honest but not harsh. you have a kindly delivery so i am not in the least offended.
i avoid all discussion because mwd says don't even try to have r talk- that this will merely push him away immediately rather than allow him to wind his way thru his "thing".
i think both things- that db way is right sounding to me. and i think your comments are good too. i am still trying to apply it and "not go there" about the r and so forth. (discussions, demands, expectations, recriminations)
in past when we "discussed" all this- i
did say-" i'm not his mother or friend - i'm not a pal- i'm either his mate or nothin (in my mind). I told him this ow between us will kill it all- (all calmly) - i don't know him anymore - don't know what i feel for him - and don't know what or if this r could be in future and don't know if this new "real" him is someone i even want to know".
beyond that, what is there left to say - really?. he's heard everything i think & feel about it.
i haven't brought it up since then (several months ago)
whatever our r is - totally objectively speaking - he is nicer in past year . so he has improved and i am feeling creative and interested - so i'm improved too. i don't think it "means" anything - don't know if we're growing more apart or more together. sounds dopey- nothing has changed really tho. like the book says- don't get excited over any "ups" - probably for him nothing has changed.
I have stupidly sacraficed instincts & desires of mine in life to be with him- my own choice. he has not- slimball. I made a bad choice - better women than me were seduced by feeling special, love, fun, etc. only a human being here..
total impasse
i am not banking on him being in my life forever anymore- i'm just riding it out in what i think is least intrusive and painful way. maybe i'm just lazy & weak . who the heck knows?
when i listen to and try to "embrace" the db philosophy- i come to the conclusion that nothing i do or think matters. keep clear - give him room - stfu and try to gal. whether he sees it or not- do it anyway.
i'm betwixt and between with thinking (still) that this is a mlc - then waiver - what if i'm mistaken). then i think i've invested soooolong in hanging on thru this awful awful period - it would be a shame to walk out before "the end". BUT THEN- I THINK, IF in fact i'm on the wrong trail- it's been for nothing - BUT THEN i think what difference does that make either? i do not have anything "better" to run to at this moment in time other than (alot more of) lonliness (& poverty (possibly) - the old "do you feel lucky punk?" i am not a gambler really.
I still don't think you should do anything, don't move or go away, it's your home and you wouldn't want to be considered abandoning it. I think IMHO, you need to set some boundaries w/h because your not M, it's so easy for him to just flow in and out.
i GET what you say- i think/thought that this inability of mine to "act like it's okay" and talk to him while he's in the arms of ow or on his way - was some kind of boundary. i know it's weak & small. i've said to him that " i hate it- i hate that he does it- i'm waiting to wake up and hate him enough to leave". (so that much he knows) he said "that's hard" wtf - he's deluded clearly about him and me and life and everything in the universe.. short of the "get out of my life if you're choosin her" boundary- what would i possibly say or do other than cut off communications if he's with her? he apparently doesn't think his actions are "hard" or he wouldn't have the shame to utter those words. he deserves worse than hard - like slow & painful torture maybe? too bad i'm not that kinda gal- revenge & torture motivated.
talk about life in a novel- he's living in his warped little brain -- even more unreal than me. at least i have you and jane eyre in my corner..!!.
he just sent a little e-mail reminder about a bill i have due - wtf - see, he somehow needs to keep attached before he goes off to be detached- i'm in a sick psycho novel here really- he's flyin over my cuckoo nest...
, I don't think it's to rub it in, never the less, you should be on a need to know basis about his life to give you the space you need to heal.
so - are you saying you think i should tell him stay away and we need to separate? or just that when he's down there we should have no communications at all? i've thought of it- but remind myself there may be big rammifications. he may hate it- he may love it- the ole crap shoot again that goes along with big actions of that sort. cluck cluck...scratch scratch...
re: sitting down & putting things on table - db says don't go repeating it all over and over. He continues to do what he does- i continue to tell myself to harden up and face the music. this will end sometime- one way or the other way- i cannot do this particular dance forever. i still try to stay away from any confrontation/conversation with him and work on me- my attitude- the things i want to change -
I have a notion if i continue to be who i am- the universe will wham me on the head and i will go off in a new direction. if i don't come to a big decision/action on my own because of a job or love or whatever - I think life will push me.
i know- i sound crazy don't I. even saying it out loud sounds wacky to put your life in the hands of fate (God?) whatever...
i like the dr. seuss quote of:
be who you are- and say what you feel...
those who matter won't mind and those who mind, don't matter.
keeping a good thought. i'm not as devastated as usual - i am wierdly in control of emotions this morning.
determined to do some work- balance a checkbook - see an old friend of fam. at mom's for lunch (this woman is always saving someone- perhaps she'll take over saving mom for a bit - it would be a welcome relief to know she had some company besides me.
so- thank you and drive thru please. i do appreciate your input and welcome it at any time. you don't make me feel judged and criticized- you just put forth your thoughts & kindly inquire. pleasee do so any time-
i know i rant & loop and probably have not said one new thing in the past year- thanks for participating with me-
i hope your day is a good one- how are you and what are yout hinking. are you still in crisis mode? have you managed to take a step back?
is the lite still on?????? or are we loading up our dinghies for a quick escape? curious - are ya okay?
xxoo ((( ))) some day- when this is allllover and we laugh about it - we need to meet up for that glass of wine - or maybe a bagel and coffee- whatever. a fun thought.
-
Nero-
No, no, there is no right or wrong, rhyme or resone to any of this. You have definitely made some changes and your moving forward everyday, nothing about this is easy and your still here!
It was nice to hear you say some of the things you have done to make changes, you don't really write about the positives you made, so now that you wrote them, reread them and give yourself the credit you deserve.
I was surprised to hear some of the things you just wrote, if anything at least I got you talking about yourself a little more. We're here for Nero!
I will write again tonight, off to get b-day cake for now S26 and now D19, they share the week so they share the sheet cake!
hiya- it's funny you said i 'talked about myself" for a change. i think i do nothing but that. i'll have to go reread what i said.
i am so wierd tonite & today. i wondered after writing to you if i should just sent him an e-mail saying i don't give a damn what he's doing. so - go have it all and drop dead too.
yeah- i didn't - i know - oh well-
back later- gonna walk soon
b
No, don't that would be reacting. I know you didn't. You are speaking about yourself in a way that is more pointing to what you want. I know its so complicated - don't react, but make boundaries, how do you do that if your not communicating what you want? All I do is show him by how I walk away or give short answers and move on.
It stinks that it's seems to be all on us as they flounder through life not really feeling any of the fall out their giving us. But, they have their own grief to deal with, it's just not about us.
We are sad about them, they are screwed up about life, we cry, they trot along. The tables will turn I think and we will come out so much better because we are of sound mind.
Hang in there I dont think we should be waiting for the day we hate them enough to leave. I would hope we "leave" which is what I am doing right now, because we are stronger and at a better place with ourselves to decide enough is enough and move forward to our new life.
Nero it helps me to write things out in a journal or post on here or talk to a friend. Then I don't have the same desire to communicate with H and let him have a piece of my mind. It sure helps to get it out.
those who matter won't mind and those who mind, don't matter.
Love this...I'm gonna use it, I'm going to remember it!
hiya dawn-
Hang in there I dont think we should be waiting for the day we hate them enough to leave.
i know you're rite about the H word - it's not that i'm a guy to go around hating people. can't think of anyone i really do- t's just such a BIG SATISFACTORY word. i'm looking for the strongest - power-laden - emphatic word i can find. i don't even want indifference- which is the most awful of all. when i think all i inspire is indifference- then i feel it's truly time to clear out. you know me- i fear both deciding i still love this man and deciding i really really do not at all care one bit. at the moment both seem tragic kind of.
see- he's rite that i think in most extreme terms. idk why- i find myself thinking - love me or leave me.
i'm askin you- could you / would you live in a situation where life went back to normal with your h and he got along well enough and was functioning, BUT you could tell his fun and excitement in life came from someone not you? as much as i know day to day life is not loaded with excitement and fun-
it is toooo creepy to contemplate a life in close proximity with someone that runs to his secret little texts and e-mails for that.
i think we NEED to live together more and keep in the habit- but i also think his childish behavior of the hidden texts, etc. will be the final straw. like, i can probably forgive infidelity more readily than i can forgive immature-cheesiness, and how it hurts the other guy. i'm very down on cruelty to animals (me).
it says something sooooo bad about this guy. oh well. I know you and others will say he is not intentionally hurting me- i'm just the one getting the fall out. BUT - nope - not going to say it. me just trying to stop the loop i get in.
btw - i find i am not really obsessing so much about what he's doing and so on. i feel a thought flit thru- and i go visit someone - get busy- forget it. want to decorate a little pink sparklie feather-type tree with hearts for valentimes day. WHAT A LAUGH HUH? ME celebrating love and romance. God- i amaze myself sometimes. i'm such a chump - either i'm amazingly resilient or completely fruity.
much like my not knowing if i want to care for him again or hate the sight of his face - i have a sneaking suspicion as much as i want to just wash my hands of love and so on- i also still "believe". oh man..... good girl or get real???? life is full of these giant questions isn't it.? well, my brain and my life are.
i know in my heart if i had a job and was incredibly busy this would be easier- probably you too. we have too much time to think. i'm dragging my feet - enjoying the last days of "freedom" kind of. can't put it better.
i know i drive everyone that knows me nuts- but then, when i stopped working 10 or 15 years ago- i thought the same thing. if i didn't HAVE to work- i could bank every cent and wad up the old savings account. it was a grim outlook - i took the possibly-one chance in life to not work for awhile.
it's been great- up til I got FOGGED IN by this mlc debacle-- im finding i'm back to valuing my time and ability to not get out the door every single day- i guess the contrast of the last couple years of total ennui and inability to get out of my own way , and impending end of freedom - - HAS sparked a new appreciation in me. sad human nature that it takes things like this to make us appreciate what we have/had.
i liked the little job tho, for the week- so i guess either way it will all be good.
It stinks that it's seems to be all on us as they flounder through life not really feeling any of the fall out their giving us. But, they have their own grief to deal with, it's just not about us.
here's what's really sad - 75% of me - does not have one drop of faith that this guy will ever be able to get beyond his (i think) guilt-induced ed and ultimately something as stupid as sex (i like it too) will end up being the nail in my coffin. i still believe we
love with our brain and EVERYTHING could be fixable if one wanted to.
his mlc, stubbornness & fear will do us both in. can't believe that i can be soooooo optimistic in general about love - and sooooooo un-optimistic about human nature in others. my flaw - how to fix ? is expecting too much from people maybe. (or conversly - having no faith in them anymore). who exactly do i think I am?
well- slept great - 2 little sleeping pills - I did not even want to risk thinking away all nite. i swear- with sleep i am full of power & ability in the morning to face my day & my life and not be fearful. when i don't get it- i am weak and "unable". nite & day
I need to go do some work here- seriously.
thanks for your note- thanks for being there- you sound good today- i hope your day is a good onw.
your words are good to read - i think you're right that somehow - some way we'll end up okay because we have our sound minds. i hope so- I think of my perfectly good sister who just went off some deep end - breakdown- schizophrenia- alcoholism- death- and i think there is a point that some people just "break". the pain, troubles, disappointments, lost love - ka bam. their brain goes off the rails. no one's fault.
it's not a criticism- it's just a limit. i worry that i have a limit and it can be reached as well as her. none of us are soooooo strong & unbreakable (i think) - we are all vulnerable if the right combination of troubles comes along in our life. i don't like being smug - it could have been me. it could still be me - - or alan - our best friend that died in the car crash- ka bam. one minute he's here "having it all" and next - playing a harp up on a cloud. i don't want to forget either.
OH GEEEZ- I WAS laying in bed thnking this morning and wanted to run one thought by you. you keep pondering why your husband doesn't just GO when you say it- and if he thinks he wants it. when i found out about ow, etc.- my very first impulse was RUN - NOW. the THOUGHTS THAT STOP ME - i'm just going to say what pops in my head- not figure it our or dress it up- someting like this keeps me not leaving (could any apply to your H?) :
1) i hate this sitch- but do i just want to "give up" and hand my life over so easliy "without a fight" ???
2) i look at allllll the "stuff" from 35 years in that fl house- and cannot face even thinking where to begin sorting, packing & moving. (for better or worse)- this is the biggest deterrent.
3) this is my "home" too..(?)(also big) why the heck do i have to go sleep somewhere else and be uncomfortable & somewhere wierd that i don't want to be & no sleep because this jerk is wrecking our lives -
4) I can always walk out tomorrow - when i am absolutely sure beyond a shadow of a doubt...
5) who says HE gets to take my life & home away- i'll go when i'm darn good & ready & not before (well- unless shoved out- then i'll deal with that too)
6) incredible laziness on my part to dislodge my entire life -
maybe your h feels some of these things. granted he's the one breaking trust & breaking faith- BUT i was just thinking why i don't just go get lost if i'm so unhappy...SO maybe some kind of insight - maybe totally not. just a thought.
okay- i'm really out of here- tons to do -
xxoo (())
hi hopper-
you sure are right. whenever i am/was spinning out of control- i run to this forum as fast as can be and "talk" a bit. it has kept me sane and "hanging in there" with this dbing.
i never know if i want to be thankful i found this book by accident- or sorry. if i'd be gone & done - or what/? by now without it's message. .
it's both a blessing & a curse. it's the longest & hardest thing i've ever done. i think it's about getting to be five years when i noticed a bit "disconnect" between us- and july 2011 full disclosure. i'd say worst two years of my life for sure- I'm de-fogging a bit and glad of it.
still standing tho- still confused and unsure where i'm heading & how it will all "end". trying hard to not be optimistic - yet kind of valuing more the optimistic side of my nature.
a girl could get crazy huh? thanks for note- i'd say thank goodness we all found our way here to alot of sympathetic "ears" and people willing to share their experiences, wisdom, confusion, pain, etc... and , of course, nothing makes you feel better than some support from people who understand and are going thru the very same thing as you. it's gold.
i'm thankful-
thanks for note - hope your day is good and good luck, etc. i'm around anytime
(i used to journal & write this down on paper- then if i ever reread it- it's tooooo painful sickening - i rip it all up) (who wants evidence around anyway?)_i cannot willingly relive any part of it-
since i don't think i'll ever run for president - so fox news & the enquirer are never likely to look here for me, to expose my soft underbelly- i'd say yay db forum. shhhhhhhhh- all the secrets & pain, etc......
hopper -
just wanted to say. isn't it sad that the hardest part of this all is the inability to talk to the very person that was your person to talk to- for all those years.
that one thing- loss of the ROCK in life- a bitter pill to swallow. oh well huh?
takes vows -
It does still pain me when I see him dressed up in one of his date night outfits, knowing he is going to see her. Meanwhile, he will look me right in the face and lie about where he is going.
you know, what is it with them? and the lies.
i still begin to think and sometimes struggle with the notion of WHY BOTHER???
I JUST can't get that. if you feel you have found something new and better - WHY LIE & WHY KEEP THE TIES?
if it were me- if i found "new love" and it was wonderful- i'd be gone like a shot (i think). i might feel guilty as hell and like a cad - but knowing i was making a fool of someone i loved once- knowing how much it was a double-cross. that sort of thing- would impel me to act and take a chance on my new life.
when i met this guy i was married. we worked in same office. when i realized what it was i felt for new man - i split from my ex husband. it was hardest thing to say & do. i didn't have a guarantee or anything- i just couldn't exist in THAT life knowing he thought it was something it wasn't any more. (he had alcohol & violence issues) but he was a person & a human being. i owed him that - some respect for his heart i guess.
i don't think i could hurt a human being like the lies do.
any wisdom?
Hi Nero,
I've never posted to you before, but I found your last post very interesting. You said that you left your last H because it was the humane thing to do. And maybe that's correct. But what I found interesting is that you mentioned that he had some serious issues. I can't help but think that in some part of your mind you knew sure as anything that your M to your exH was over. You knew you had nothing more to invest in that. You had nothing left for him. It was an easier decision. I went through that. I was sure able to leave my last H without much hesitation at all. I knew that there was no salvaging that R. I have many of the same questions you do. Why not just leave me? Why torture me? Why not just make a decision.
My H left me for a year and a half while carrying on an affair. He did come home. I'm not convinced the affair ended or perhaps he started another. I have no idea. But it was months of pure hell having him back until I finally left. Life is funny sometimes and in its time, it teaches its own lessons. And as unhappy as I was at home, I'm telling you that there is a huge part of me that wants to go back. I am so afraid to make this final. I love my H, I am in love with my H. I find myself constantly having to remind myself what it was like when we were living together in order to prevent myself from getting on a plane and go back home. What a gf of your H will never have on you is a history... a history of love, devotion, protection, good times, etc. While he may be able to distract himself at the moment with someone else, those memories still have a pull. And I can't help but feel like these men who have affairs are affected by the fact that their wives keep standing even though they are acting cr&ppy. Somewhere in their mind, they know no one else would do that for them. But that's bad too, because they have no incentive to stop the behavior. It's a confusing mess for sure.
Hey Nero-
I think there are lots of reasons they lie.
- they are selfish, immature teenagers mentally.
- their brains are crazy, Swiss cheese alien brains.
- they really don't know what they want. In my H's case, he doesn't seem to know what life he wants, so he is trying to have both.
- they can't make decisions worth a sh!t.
- they are crazy.
- they know what they're doing is wrong.
- did I mention they are crazy?
It does hurt me when my H lies, but not like it used to. Plus, I've stopped taking it personally. I've seen him lie to others, know he lies to others.
Can you imagine living a life of constant secrets and lies? Talk about stress...
I think they may make themselves believe that they are not hurting us. They lie to themselves most of all.
And I get what you said to hopper about losing the rock in our lives. Thing is... I think we have to become our own rocks. We can have our support systems, but at the end of the day, it's our life and we have to take care of it.
Ps - if you do decide to run for president, I promise not to tell Fox News or any gossip mags - You have my vote
I can't fathom the stress of keeping track of so many lies. It must be absolutely exhausting. In my case, H even pretended he was in recovery for his drug addiction for a time. What a burden.
You sound stronger Nero! Keep on, keeping on... We'll get there!
Much Love,
Heather
hey hi-
boy, do i ever agree totally with your assessment. the first husband- yes, i did find myself thinking "is this all there is and will ever be?" i have my committment issues too (this h as well). he didn't beat me or anything- but i found the violence - however minor- to be a really bad portent of things to come. but i did feel alot for that ex-guy - first love, etc - when i realized what i was feeling for new person might be love = that is what pushed me to move out and take a chance on new person. it was scary- i was poor & young - but the thought of using him was soooo ratty. we just knew each other in office- no giant flaming affair and promises, etc. (hey- and my ex even owned a gun - yikes!!!)
and it was easier for my heart to have someone waiting in the wings. BUT - i don't think it took away the awfulness of having to deliver such a blow to another human being. it's awful- i'm a woman that spends her existence trying to make everyone happy and fix eveerything in the universe. it was bad to feel i was teh "bad" guy - i cried the whole time i packed up and left him most of the furniture just because i felt so badly for him. now i know myself what it feels like first hand to have your life pulled out from under your feet.
i feel ashamed - but it had to happen in the end, i guess. i wasn't gong to wait around for the jealousy & alcohol and rage to "get me" for real. he was not "fair" in life to me - I was so young and trusting and deluded really about life & love - oh well- when i think of my current sitch & the lies & cheating - for how long? i think i'm most distressed by fact he didn't even see me as a person worthy of honesty & knowing he was feeling treasonous - he should have walked out years ago if this was all how he felt- if he had guts that is or decency- why make me the jerk for soooo long?
anyway-mlc - i know- it's allll so convoluted and confusing and unfair and out of this world- most days i do not even know where to begin to find the "way" - i float along one more day hoping some wisdom comes along and seeps into my head.
I hope you are rite about the memories. i'd say we had as good a r and sitch as anyone would have a right to expect from life. this has taken me by surprise. i always believed love would heal anything that could come along- we'll see. i may be still too romantic and optimistic. seems like life would be awful without any hope or optimism- but i might be nuts.
i used to be mad crazy in love with this man. i am not sure now what i feel for this not-h guy. he is someone i do not know- he surely is not the sweet man i fell in love with.
when he changed over- i am not sure. i'm not sure of anything anymore. i want my certainty back- and my life also please.
And I can't help but feel like these men who have affairs are affected by the fact that their wives keep standing even though they are acting cr&ppy. Somewhere in their mind, they know no one else would do that for them. But that's bad too, because they have no incentive to stop the behavior. It's a confusing mess for sure.
OH CRIPES - i've thought this over a million or two times. exactly- EXACTLY- what is there to make it stop? if I am "still standing" thru it all- then the assumption is that i'm just a happy & stupid doormat that will be there for eternity to wipe one's feet on. if i leave - then i'm the one that couldn't hack it when the chips were down. the unhappiest part is this- i cannot even fathom what is in his head & heart- i used to think i knew and knew him. to find i don't know him at all (and i mean AT ALL) AND then to try and figure out what's up with him and what's up with me - well, it's impossible. i'm soooo not used to feeling sooo powerless. well, when my sister died and my dad died (alcohol & cancer) i did know the feeling of watching that slow train wreck and being powerless. maybe this is like tht-
he is going to crash & burn and i'm going to watch and bleed and be unable to stop or fix or save. wah wah huh.
i hate to know i still care about him and still think we're "rite for each other" (oh God- don't i sound like simpering wreck?) yet- i don't feel love and desire for him. ( well, there is the desire to flatten him and hear him vocalize some suffering (never gonna happen tho). i want what i had back- i don't feel lke i did tho, i don't know what i want- but i sure want it badly....
it's just a giant sh_t tornado spinning over my head. wonder what will fly out next - wonder if i'll be dead or alive when it passes - just don't know anything.
EXCEPT - glad i found all you guys out there - and this forum - maybe it saved my sanity. ta da -
slightly damaged but still standing so far... woo hoo thanks for note.
xxo
hey hi- boy are you ever right -
they are crazy as bed bugs. my h lies and lies and i don't even know if he remembers what he says - which means he doesn't even see people as worthy of honesty. i mean- wtf
he's jacked people around and been a narcissistic jerk forever- it wasn't directed to me- i thought it never would be.
It does hurt me when my H lies, but not like it used to. Plus, I've stopped taking it personally. I've seen him lie to others, know he lies to others.
you sayng that just now- little lite bulb over head here. i always take it incredibly (cripplingly ) personally. i never thought what you just said- that he does it to every one. that it's not a personal stab at me. it felt like it-
wonder if i can get to the place you are at- and it won't hurt so much. i think of myself as a person whose always the one left standing (tho i appear fruitie sometimes- i think inside i've got the iiron rod. even if i dither or don't decide- i've always thought i could butch my way thru anything.
this business of being sick, him going down to ow - this one sister i was close to being a jackass and totally crap_ing on my head (called with another "order" today and hung up on me because i said i couldn't drop what i was doing and run to my mom's rite that moment! for a stinkng pill that i don't think she should be taking btw) -it's all a bit much all of a sudden
watching my mom being so weak & sick- wondering if it would kill her or not(?) very wierd- but she's 88 - mean- could...
anyway- i crossed over some point there- the sheer crap from so many angles-
maybe i'll get "better" now. fingers crossed.
this h of mine wants to play house like it's all fine when he's here- then just disappear out of my life (what? my feelings - don't exist or aren't worth consideration donja know) and have his "other - better" life - wtf
he is a teenage jerk- he is crazy and also crazy
i'm a nice rock- but it was really really nice to have a backup rock. maybe because my dad died and we were sort of floundering around a bit- tho my mom was a great "rock" - i'm a bit insecure. i always think i can handle anything- but sometimes i am emotionally "laid low" and realize i need help - of one sort or another. i always hope knowing my weaknesses is some kind of strength. fingers crossed-
thanks for writing- i like feeling like i have some friends out there and much as it pains me to think of ANYONE else in the universe feeling this all - it's soooo comforting to know i'm saying it to people who do , in fact, know exactly what i'm feeling and thnking and saying. sanity central
yay for the flotation device
xxoo
hi lois-
i don't even think this goober keeps track- just whams thru life- maybe all the stress pushed his hair out of his head- he's gotten pretty bald.
sometimes i look at him and wonder how i ever loved him. i've got something in side for him tho- still. don't know what.
i sure hope 'm stronger- i sure hope we all keep hahnging on and all 'GET THERE" - WHEREever the hell there is.
had ok afternoon with friend that got divorced a few months ago. she's more normal and less "on the edge" than last few years. what a difference- she's happy without ratty ex.
talked crafts - was nice. now, i'm going to mzke a potato pancake or die. blob up on startch & grease - yay
xxoo thanks for writin. good luck to you too- maybe we can all drag each other thru this and emerge all shiny & strong on other side...
anyone out there care to tell me "you can do this"? today?
this is all so personal & icky- but since none of you even know me- what the heck... it's seeming to me an unsolvable problem (ever)
I just reread chapter on mlc in mwd book - i hear it - i am wierdly calm and today thinking perhaps i've "fought the good fight" and should just let it all fall thru the cracks and give it up.
i'm not "ready" mentally or financially. i don't even care about that... this morning. i'm just feeling at a total loss. she says don't pursue- then i read the sexual disenchantment part about women want to talk & feel connected in order to desire h - - whereas men want to feel desirable & touched in order to feel connected & talk. i think it's reasonable- i see the opposite way the sexes work. it's all so crazy for one person to have to try and manage on their own - untwangling something so deadly as a mlc & "at-odds" sex life as well.
i wonder if i (personally) can get myself to even attempt to breach this gap - OR IF when she says in mlc chapter - DO NOT PURSUE i should not even "go there" (yet?) . it's a stumper. the ed he experienced - ( i think) - was result of guilt (as well as longevity of relationship) - he said don't worry, it's no big deal. but i think in fact, it was a huge deal...
i'd say that is what impelled him into a serious ea (my opinion)
how to ever (now that i almost hate him alot of the time) figure out how to motivate myself to attempt to somehow encourage him without pursuing - ... (tho - probably jumping gun here - but I'd stake my life on it(sex) being "the thing" holding him in ow r.???? his fear of inability for "rest of his life" with me. wtf..??? she says we have to wait for them to change their minds about us- and the r and l - BUT , i honestly wonder if his fear will FOREVER scare him out of ever ever ever even going there again - but now that i'm saying it "out loud" to you - this would obviously be what she describes as the was "changing their mind" about us - do they think they're attracted and feel attracted.
i am 62 (in a few weeks) - i'm definitely not bad for my age- i'm not a movie star tho. I could wear a bikini and not have people screaming in pain - BUT i have a wrinkle or two-
i know- it's impossible sounding isn't it??? i fall back and do not in any way pursue or chase him. in my mind tho- i wonder if this one stupid thing (very big - but small -( know what i mean) part of this r is what is really at the root of alot of the "disenchantment" he's got . ??? i get it that for him to feel "unable" probably shakes his ego-confidence down to the roots of his hair.
which came first? the chicken or the egg- who the heck knows.
just mulling over my GIANT DELIMMA & fiasco-stinky life with this mlc stuff - i've been "enlightened" about what is going on with not-h and his life since july of 2011 - i mean full disclosure - (it feels like fifty years at least). it MAKES ME feel like i am 100 yrs old - unappealing - unappreciated - lousy company- ocd about my stupid family & mother - and alot of other crappy things.
Me- i think i'm not so bad. about as good or bad as anyone else- better than alot- and pretty much "what's not to like".
i know- wah wah nero- quit being a pity sponge. since you guys out there now know almost entirely the good and bad about me - moreso than any other human beings alive- i'm throwing it out there. ya can't divorce me - well, you certainly can avoid me-
anyone in particular have anything in particular to say?
nero,
Many of the things you are reading are for those not in crisis. Your spouse is in crisis and everything that you would normally do will be the exact opposite right now. Do not pursue, do not contact unless it is an emergency, do not bring up the subject of the relationship, and the list goes on and on. Why? Because your spouse is right now, the exact opposite of who he/she was prior to the crisis. They are now the mirror image, i.e., in other words, the adult has morphed into a child/teenager.
What happened to your spouse is not your fault. It happened a long, long time ago at an early stage. He/she was stunted emotionally by someone in authority. Their feelings/thoughts were not validated and some of them were expected to live up to very high standards when all they wanted to do is be a child and be heard.
Something triggered the crisis for him and it wasn't disenchantment. He thinks he missed out on something from long ago and now he's gone back in time to grow up. If your marriage was a bad one, he wouldn't have stayed as long as he has. The crisis hit, he had to explore the world somewhat like Columbus had to long ago.
You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. If you think that you have areas in your life that need some fine tuning, by all means work on them, but you did not cause his crisis, nor can you "win" him back over at this time. This is his journey to make w/o you in the passenger seat. Your journey is one of discovery and yes, you will need to work through your pain and not side step it like the mlcers. You will recover far quicker than the mlcer because you are facing your issues an day-to-day life head on.
You can do this and you will find that if you take each day as it comes and not look too far into the future, you will find it does get easier. Make a list of things you've not been able to do or complete and start working on them. Just remember, any changes that you make for yourself must remain permanent and are not done just to get him back.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start walking. I'm sure you've got some things that you need to do today. You can do this!
Nero,
I don't see you as whining... I see you doing a brain dump of all that you are feeling. I think it's pretty amazing the way you are able to articulate all of that.
There are no guarantees in life. You could wait and it could still end. You could wait and he will pull himself out of this. We just don't know. It's a matter of you at this point. What are you able to handle? What are you able to live with?
I do so understand how you question yourself and your worth because of what has gone on. I turned 40 and I'm telling you, my H's affair with someone 10 years my junior really shook my core. It never really mattered what attention I got anywhere else, if my H didn't want me, then there must be something wrong with me. I've allowed him to be judge, jury and executioner in my life. And it's something that we need to work on. Because neither of our H's, or anyone else gets to decide our worth.
I know it's frustrating and can send us into a downright panic to watch the lives we had once slip away... to watch these men we loved slip away. But Snodderly is right, we cannot do anything about that. And I think sometimes they get to a place where there is nothing we can do/say that will get them to respond. So we have to do our own thing. And each day we need to decide what "our own thing" is. When things become overwhelming, just focus on one thing. Simplify the goals. Does it stink? Yep. I mean I had a boatload of options in front of me in deciding what to do next and all of them were not ideal in my opinion. But I hope that one day, I will see the light and realize everything will be ok. I will feel whole again. I've seen a lot of people on these boards move on and have good lives. And as much as we kick and scream and need to be dragged through the process, that will happen for us. I know how hard that is to imagine. I can't imagine it for myself most days. But it's the truth.
So, do one thing today that will make you feel better and get your mind off of your H and your situation.
I'm praying for you
LIS
OMG snodderly-
thank you so much for your little "pep" talk rite this moment- IT IS SOOOOOOOOO "ON POINT" I can't believe it- I can now proceed with my day/life - this is the first time i've actually felt that perhaps - I can see his pain/confusion. before now- it's seemed like spoiled child-ed-ness. no kidding. just your one observation that is so close to home.
What happened to your spouse is not your fault. It happened a long, long time ago at an early stage. He/she was stunted emotionally by someone in authority. Their feelings/thoughts were not validated and some of them were expected to live up to very high standards when all they wanted to do is be a child and be heard.
are you a psychiatrist or a mind reader?
THIS IS SOOOOO MY H - when i met him he HATED HIS father (now he's buddies but he's the "smart guy" and in the driver seat) my h was/is a smart kid - his father was such a demanding nazi of a guy (total egocentric priss-pot)(still is btw). NOTHING was good enough. when his parents split (he was 12) his mom took baby brother & cleared out in blink of eye- he didn't even suspect anything going on. he was left with hard As$ father... (who had threatened to expose mother as adultress, etc. so she just LEFT H and ran off with om - leaving him with this man she didn't even like!!??) (he hasn't spoken to her in about six years now)
he tells the story of getting an A and his father said "not good enough" so he replied "best you can get"- and hard ole father said, " if you were so smart - the teacher would have given you an A+ and created a new category just for you" (!) ...
your comment resonates with me a hell of alot this morning. your comment & his (defining) story.
I also now stack up his confusion & pain as a kid having his mother just disappear & leave him with crap father (I compare it to how i feel with this mlc - BUT i can talk about it and do to handful of buddies - i have that support and it's still hard. he was a kid- kids can't talk about this junk AND he was with demanding & unreasonable & unloving father to boot.
saying this to you now - i feel like a rat to be so ready to overlook his lifelong messed up broken-little-kid-heart.
i also think - this father of his that he could never ever please or be good enough for. his wife died a couple years ago (my h HATED THIS step mother) (alot) - now my h has father "all to himself" - he continually fixes his father's computer and advises him (role reversal) now he's the "father" of his dad. maybe this is some part of it all - somehow - (me wondering - don't know how it all fits together)
i TRULY WANT to believe he's broken & in pain - in order to be able to carry on my part with a sense of some purpose. i need to believe it's not all a joke to him - (me that is).
i hate being second fiddle all of a sudden to alot of other characters in his life that he thinks are more important) and i don't like that this ea is someone he dredged from our past- old secretary - from years & years ago. i can't fit all the peices together to make sense to me -
thank you so much - i am amazed and taking it as a giant and positive "sign" that you happened to be out there and say this particular thing. for now - i's re-juvinated my resolve
I hate when i lose my compassion or cannot see beyond my tiredness -
this comment of yours that is soooo pertinent and applies so well. i hope you are right - that i didn't break him and can't fix him. i've stopped trying anyway - i do not talk or "go there" about r, m, love, whatever. It's just that i lose "heart" sometimes and feel floundering - about it all.
I have managed to see in myself an improvement on the "don't talk" & have patience front. i've done a 180 in life with my ability to hear incitement to argue and not get "involved". this has somehow happened by itself - NOW for first time in r i am the person to "step back" and remain calm in face of conflict. he gets hot under the collar (new and most unappealing). this one thing is amazing to me - role reversal!??
I can keep my own counsel - and i can keep my own distance/space. I have been going out more, lately feel creative again (a HUGE thing in my life) - walk daily w/friend up here and down in fl -so i'm not a total loser -
at this moment- he's been to see ow this weekend- so he hasn't called - i have not been my usual mad and creepy self about it. i've been kind of "detached" (i can't believe i'm saying it out loud and it is the word that describes it). i've felt badly to notice that i just am "done" caring about that mostly. no gut wrenching and no sick stomach. just think about it- and let it flow out of my head. it hurts - but doesn't "stop" .
i keep hoping i am not just realizing he is a bad person inside - rather than the guy i loved. i never say any of this junk to him - i act like i'm just going along in my life.
seriously- thanks so much. I'm back to life and still standing my ground here. you have saved me today.
xxoo ((( )))
hi and thanks for response -
kind of you to say i'm not a giant whiner. feels like it- i'm too used to hearing
other people's troubles. my own troubles and being obsessed with them is foreign and not very much fun. i do need to just "stop it" today.
my H's affair with someone 10 years my junior really shook my core. It never really mattered what attention I got anywhere else, if my H didn't want me, then there must be something wrong with me. I've allowed him to be judge, jury and executioner in my life. And it's something that we need to work on. Because neither of our H's, or anyone else gets to decide our worth
you're rite and along with allowing it sometimes to creep in and hurt me , - i do know it somewhere deep inside too - that it might just be his opinion "now" "mlc" and not worth a darn.
why i give "it" airtime i do not know. just lose it now or then.
And as much as we kick and scream and need to be dragged through the process, that will happen for us. I know how hard that is to imagine. I can't imagine it for myself most days. But it's the truth.
i agree - you sure have it rite - kicking and screaming. i know in my heart every day it could be alot worse. i know i have alot to be thankful for-
thanks for speedy reply- it must be karma or my good fortune to be "saved" today with a couple speedy responses. it means soooo much to feel understood & not alone - really. funny how a whole world of people is right outside the door - yet a gal can feel pretty "on my own" with it all.
anyway- i don't even know why today i am - CROSS that out- I WAS IN such a bad place- i feel lots better - thank goodness i looked back & found them.
you've made all the difference in one person's life today-
xxoo ((( )) hope your day is a good one & tnx
Nero,
You have saved yourself.
Your h is very "normal" for an mlcer. The comment about him working on his dad's computer, etc., very, very typical. His father was the authority figure that didn't validated him or affirm his accomplishments. So, the second time around being a child, he goes back in time to revisit that parent or authority figure, as you have seen w/your h. They have to resolve their feelings/emtoions about this person and why that person treated them so poorly. Your h will eventually do this w/his father.
Is his mother still alive? Did he have any contact w/her pre-crisis? He's going to have to deal w/his abandonment issues as he travels the path too.
Nero, he is definitely in emotional pain. Even though we can't see the injury it is deep within him and he's got to heal himself. We can't do it for them. You may never be able to "fit" the entire puzzle together. After 13 years, I still have one or two pieces that I'm still puzzling over, but I do know that when God is ready to reveal the answers he will.
You are a good person and I know you were a good wife to your h, so do not ever doubt yourself again. You didn't do anything to trigger this crisis nor did you create it. Let me just say this, if he had not reconnected w/the secretary, he would have found someone else. She's nothing special, but a passenger riding in a car on a dangerous road w/a lunatic at the wheel.
Hang in there.
Nero, there is some really great stuff here to read, I'm just going to share in all the advice with you and go along for the ride.
You have the best day today, one step at a time is what we do best!
Best, dm
snodderly-
Is his mother still alive? Did he have any contact w/her pre-crisis? He's going to have to deal w/his abandonment issues as he travels the path too.
she left at age 12 - he didn't talk to her for years til after college - his dad did number on his brain throughout rest of youth - about the mom breakng up fam. & being a "sinner" - evil - etc. - - -
then he went to law school - when he got out and i met him - he was clerking in my office - then working - he was going to her condo on weekends to play tennis & visit. we moved in together nd he quit playing tennis altogether. just like that- of his own accord! (it's apparently his big love in life- but he never even did it til he retired???)
- we entertained her & fam on holidays, etc. she is an amazingly self-centered woman. gets up in middle of thanksgiving dinner - when her other son had just announced they were having a baby- and proceeded to regale evryone with tales of how she was too young & beautiful(?) to be a grandmother - me me me me me - look at me - it's about me
she is quite a jerk/character. their contact dwindled then for about ten or so years- he'd see her at the tennis courts (she and new h were competitors and tennis was/is their life) - until about six or 7 years ago- he had made friends with all her "friends" at courts- he'd won them all over- she was jealous - he was overtly making fun of her i think & she knew it- so she had some minor tiff with a totally obnoxious guy and my h got all outraged (?) (tempest in teapot) and CUT HER OFF - big time. all of a sudden he decided he'd tried - but she was a person he didn't like. too selfish- too self involved, etc. (??) hasn't spoken to her since.
she sneaks & watches him at courts sometimes- he runs away & hides. oh man... am i saying this all out loud.?
i've offered over years to make it happen- he says no and i don't push it- his life - his fam.
HEY WAIT- your question- i'd say he stopped talking to her about 2-3 yrs into what he now says was ten years of being "unhappy". - and i'm still saying truthfully- it all seemed to begin with him quitting smoking - no kidding. he was wonderful on that "drug"...calm & sweet & in control & nice.
that's where it stands. with him- as short as i could make it. I've said bury it with mother too- he swears he won't feel a thing when she dies. her h is still around and other son is "her child". my h does not speak to his brother either.
when brother's wife died a couple years ago - didn't even acknowledge it. didn't go to his wedding, etc. cut off everyone but dad..... (his dad btw never saw other son at all- said "now i have one child" and stuck to it for past 50 years. what a group huh?
what the heck do we make of it all-
thanks for the encouragement and kind words about it not being ALLLLLL MYYYYYYYY FAULTTTTTTT. OH MAN- the blame thing is really something. back in beginning i told him don't put it on me- i'll accept (at best) 50% cause i'm a reasonable person- not all, not for his junk.
oh well- thanks so much as usual.
nero,
Your h has a lot of issues to resolve. I do think he'll work through a lot of them, but it's going to take some time and patience. It's difficult for them to look within and realize that they have to face these issues. That's why a lot of these mlcers don't come full circle.
For example, my xh has been gone for 13 years, but began his journey about 2-3 years prior to flying the coop. He's still out there trying to be a young adult, socializing w/men in their early 20's/30's. Dressing like a teenager and drinking like a fish and he just turned 60 today. He did marry the twinkle twat, but it's not been such an easy road the last 2 years because she was diagnosed w/ovarian cancer and has been undergoing chemo since October 2011. The first few years of their married life was bar hopping, partying and going to all sports games and activites. They both were party hounds. Now, he's the one that's going out and socialing w/the guys while she's home taking it easy.
Will he ever wake up? I seriously doubt it. He is an avoider and a professional "sweep it under the rug" type of guy. He's rather choose to ignore a person who's gotten on his sh@t list than to work things out w/the person. So, I don't see him ever facing his issues and dealing w/them. The genie in the bottle is his best friend these days. So sad.
The only thing you can do is take care of you and know that you are loved by family and friends and we are here to support you. Please, please do not drink the kool-aid he offers up when he does contact you...it is all projection and he's trying to justify why he left you. You are too good of a person to allow him to drag you down into the rabbit hole.
hi and this is what i fear also:
He is an avoider and a professional "sweep it under the rug" type of guy. He's rather choose to ignore a person who's gotten on his sh@t list than to work things out w/the person. So, I don't see him ever facing his issues and dealing w/them
he doesn't talk about feelings- i never knew- he just lied when asked. he is an avoider par excellance. i wonder why i even bother to try alot of the time- if the past few years are any indicator- he'll have his head in the sand til he dies.
oh well- you sure helped today. i hope he might return to normal- i don't know tho, honestly. he's nicer than ayear ago- i just don't get why really. today i am not in my usual hopeful optimistic place. today i feel very tired and kind of old-ish. tho, did my hair and look better than yesterday for sure.
for what? we don't know- just goin with it. i'm going to get cozy tonite and try and de-stress. just when i began to accomplish something today - ny mother called and i ended up over there. sooo frustrated i could cry because i didn't feel i could refuse. - i JUST HAVE GOT to get to a point of being able to say NO sometimes. jus tosmetimes, when i'm really freaky and need it. i agree to practically everything in the universe any one asks me- then when i do say no, people don't even believes it. i can only hide and avoid. it's bizarre - i have a bad act going here. BUT - I GUESS KNOWING THIS- i'll figure out something. why do we have to go around being awful and bashing people on the head to get them to listen? i think people are getting crazier and crazier
uh oh - hopefully not me tho???.... how likely is it that i'm the only sane guy? we wonder
hi snodderly-
you said:
Make a list of things you've not been able to do or complete and start working on them. Just remember, any changes that you make for yourself must remain permanent and are not done just to get him back.
I think any changes in me will be forever - unfortunately they may include things like not respecting this guy- not thinking he is essentially a "good" person, etc.
i know- sounds very childish doesn't it- thinking in terms of good and bad. but i mean- people who have good intentions and treat people like people. that's all.... respect for other living souls.
So- if i've become more patient in an argument and defend myself less or not at all (still hard to conquer this w/my mom- she sure knows the buttons to push). with H- it falls from his lips to the floor- so much clutter to be swept up later. i don't even feel anything- he acts so "silly" (really).
So- today still i do not have any desire to talk to him or hear his voice. REALLY DON'T KNOW what the heck i am "supposed to do" about it. he wrote an e-mail yesterday saying "do you want to yell at me today or tomorrow". Can he really think this is all a joke? his answer to everything in the universe - joke about it. it is my heart and my , well, pain i guess. it is soooo not funny to me- can't even think of one thing to say in response to that , that wouldn't be totally ratty and bizerk. he was with ow for a few days - i know it - i hate it - i have nothing in the world i want to "chit chat" with this man about.
don't want to fight, accuse, anyhthing. i got nothin. what in the world do i say when he calls today- or i can just not pick up the phone and see if tomorrow makes me chilled out.
he comes back up here 23rd- by the time he is gone three weeks - i'm out of the habit of him in my life- the stress of caring what is going on with him has just worn me out with it- maybe this is the "detach" you all talk about. to me it feels like I don't care anymore- i sure don't feel like answering phone calls for ten or fifteen minutes - like a dog being "walked" and then locked up again.
wtf to do with these feelings- where to stash them so they don't explode? do you just tell yourself to stay steady and not care. do you just repeat this is worth it? or just keep telling myself i can always walk away tomorrow?
just wonder. can you tell i jump out of bed and need a forum fix? oh man- i'm glad it's here- but i think i'm a pretty sad specimen most of the time. I need some contact in my life that badly- and this jerk wants to be all cute about his other life. is it still illegal to just bump people off?
i'm shoved into being like him (gag gag) he runs to his computer for a sex/flirtation fix - i run there for just some human companionship and support. i hate computers - they'll be the undoing of human interaction in the long run.
nero,
I'm wondering if his parent(s) yelled at him when he did something wrong by the question he asked you, i.e., do you want to yell at me today or tomorrow. Joking about things is his way of deflecting the seriousness of the situation. It's not to make things light and airy.
What I found useful when I had so much emotion build up wiithin was to take a pillow and beat the crap out of it. If that didn't work, I took a nice long walk. In the warmer months, I would tackle the weeds in my flower beds. I had to get physical w/things in order to get rid of my anger, etc. Even going to the gym helped release that pent up emotion.
Why do you think you are a pretty sad speciman? From where I'm sitting, you are being normal in a situtation that was shoved at you. Eventually, you'll settle down and not be "running" to the forum as much. Right now, you need the support because this is all so new to you. Don't be so hard on yourself. You are normal in every way!
hey -
thanks for sayin i'm normal. i really need to hear it badly. i'm going to go have that walk - as soon as i get dressed.
i need to clean & finish painting the kitchen molding- but i think i need to just get the heck out and feel free a bit.
xxo
nero,
A walk will do you good. It will clear your head a bit and look around at the landscape and enjoy Mother Nature's way of painting the scenery this time of year.
Nero,
Snodderly gives good advice. Go for that walk and enjoy every step.
Also, I saw that you posted elsewhere about taking the phone off the hook. Leave it on, but just don't answer. Let him wonder what you're up to for a change.
Maybe this is what true detachment is....maybe I need to hit bottom before I can be brought back up, that's fine, I will except that. But, now wouldn't you think it's a very crucial point of my life were the " who" helps me pick up, joins me in my new adventure, becomes the person I begin to admire.
I know I know it is ultimately me picking myself up, but as I do there will be new people, new places, new interest, new something that h won't be a part of if, when I begin this new adventure he is nowhere in my life. He will be a stranger....!
Success stories are those when the S connects with the lbs and together they begin a new journey. That's not going to happen here! So, when I have my small steps turn into bigger steps toward a new life I will be on my own and hope that I meet lots of new people who will become important.
If I have come just this little tiny bit of where I am now without h can you imagine how I will feel about him as I move forward. So, ride it out is only because I can run, can't make him leave, can't tie him up with duck tape to a tree for target practice.
hey hi-
i get that - i try to, sometimes i pick up because i feel like a rat just letting him sit there like a jerk (which he is btw) leaving messages. i would like very very much to be totally and utterly ruthless in this sitch
i am not (sadly). i do manage sometimes tho toignore it. this morning he called a few times- left a couple messages (he never usually does that unless he's steeped in guilt) cripes!!
anyway- ignored that- ignored a few e-mails (can always say i wasn't on line anyway).
today- in particular - for some reason i am just at some wierd point of not wanting to let him off any hooks.
he does what he does - and it makes me feel what i feel.
if he's entitled - so am i. what the heck i do with it all - or about it all- yikes...who knows.
anyway- thanks for weighing in- i'll take any kind of info or input from anyone.
i hate seeing us all here- but i'm sure glad everyone else is out there understanding me.
yay.
xxo
oh hey- there's our girl - i love the tie to tree with tape for target practice mental picture. can see him squirming & asking for mercy (i'm soooo reasonable - not any more buddy boy).
that's what kind of a mood i'm in. not mary popins at all.
But, now wouldn't you think it's a very crucial point of my life were the " who" helps me pick up, joins me in my new adventure, becomes the person I begin to admire.
i'm thinking you mean mate? so far- i'm not there- friends are v good tho - i'd say i have 7-8 aquaintences that dig me up now or then (3 more than others) , but if i were desperate- i could go knock on the door and get a cup of tea and a chat. i'll take it. one gal has a book club- i keep forgetting to find out and go - she invited me once. i can get pretty shameless- sometimes i just call someone out of the blue if i'm desperate & know it. any port in a storm.
oh yeah- what the heck about our litehouses - lites out?
i'm telling you- the waves are bashing the rocks today- the house is rocking- will it go down- we don't know... we feel it wobble - but it's been standing soooooo long. will it weather this storm???? stay tuned - story at 11
you're rite - i've got some friends up here- he mostly knows them - slightly- but they're definitely my friends. he never wanted to ever have anyone over and he never visited- til he retired and all hell broke loose. wtf??
sometimes I hang with a couple couples, the husband is nice as well as wife. been together forever- so, i'm not bustin in on the love n3st. they have senses of humor- we have a glass of wine- swap stories - talk gardens, life, etc. - it's very nice. my circle widens little by little. no men really- but that is fine with me=-
i've decided i'm definitely gun shy and not in the mood for that sort of complicatin in life (much as i'd love a companion and some fun) so far- i haven't even met or known anyone that i find attractive - so it's not an issue really.
i do tend to believe now- lots of hidden mine fields with men. maybe i'll get less suspicious.
duck & cover...... run like the wind little feather....
anyway you are back to fighting fit today and i'm glad of it. you will definitely collect people as you go along- even my dopey week at the office reminded me how many people are out there and how much everyone enjoys getting to know someone new- even at the office - people are people and most seem nice.
i like people pretty much and find them easy to meet usually. you will like it- no matter what you end up doing - it will snow ball.
the bit about them being my life without h - it's true. when he's been gone 3 weeks - i'm finding myself not thinking about his good points. i merely think (he wants to be there not here with me) move on and really, dismiss him. he's not part of my life here mostly and one of these days (i fear) i won't want hm to be. he will "alone" himself rite out of a place in this house, this life, this heart, etc.
he thinks everything in life is easy breezy and come and go and he'll always be able to do and have every singlt thing he wants. it's true (wierd but true). i've said before- he's never had anyone close die so i don't think he gets "forever" thing. or the "you could die tomorrow" thing. we really could.
i may not be the kind of guy that will always keep an open mind- who knows. he's takin big chances with this.
anyway- he probably doesn't even care about that. your note perked me up- i think we are approaching bottom ( floor - girdles, panties, socks, going up....)
maybe we will begin moving up and out of the fog & tunnel of our own- one can only hope. i need to get serious and quit saying one more trip to fla to see the babies and find a stinking job- serious life - commitment to it- etc.
i went for walk - dropped something off for my neice (14) & sister- stopped at mom's to get my "duty" out of the way- wrote a few checks & she said thanks (?) . woo hoo
now to clean this "hole" so i can stand it and move without something fall ing over in this awful work room.
seeya - onward & upward huh?
The lite isn't out it will always be on but it's for reconciliation and the pouring of his heart for the sake of sharing these kids, grand kids, and closure. It's not for me as his wife! He could never live up to my needs, nor is he the graveling type, at all.
I love having company...h hated it as well unless it was friends of kids, kids are all he's ever been able to relate to. Now I have no friends...so new ones will only know me as separated.
My life is going to move forward pretty fast with these kids as they are getting older, and bringing new people into my life. I already had to have dinner with two of the gf's families, so I have to represent my family as stable. My d19 is about to accept a new bf very soon and he has a very active family already talking about inviting her to the Keys.
So I am mother, representing my family with a father in the background known as the broken one who nobody will meet but figures has to be a good person based on the five of us being such a good group.
He has no clue what he's giving up, miss out on, the whole nine yards worth of word to express what he's missing. But, I can't care and have to learn to be the head of this wonderful family. At least they're adults and can be relied upon, somewhat!
Your sitch is different but the end is the same, you, your friends ,your dreams, he's gone, you have to move forward because your not going to die for him.
I'm having the picnic in front of my castle with my back to it not caring that h may be looking out the window wondering....want some wine anyone?
But, now wouldn't you think it's a very crucial point of my life were the " who" helps me pick up, joins me in my new adventure, becomes the person I begin to admire
You are talking about the person in the mirror here, correct?
YES, you are correct, first and formost! Thank You!
love having company...h hated it as well unless it was friends of kids, kids are all he's ever been able to relate to. Now I have no friends...so new ones will only know me as separated.
geez - me too. he was great with my neices and kids too. wtf is that all about???
I'm having the picnic in front of my castle with my back to it not caring that h may be looking out the window wondering....want some wine anyone?
yup - big glass please. i don't think he's coming to my picnic either- too stupid to find the window much less look out , much less wonder what's going on.
he even talked to my mothr this morning- who called him by accident and said he was "chatty" and tht was unusual. yeah- guilt mom. didn't say it- do not need that aggro.
i haven't talked to him today. he got home last nite- "oh honey wunnie - did oo have a nice trippie pooh??/did oo have wots of funnie bunnie? with oo special cowie wowie/ "
sill having my "go die" attitude. hoping for calmness this p.m. good luck there huh?
your family sounds wonderful and you are sure right about what he's missing in life. the best thing that there could be - the connection - the kids, the future - THE FUTURE. OH WELL- NOTHIN worse than a dope that doesn't want to be helped and can only wallow. i shouldn't say that- it's his sickness i'm sure. wish i could blame something on a sickness-
you're sounding okay tho- this is being shoved down your throat - but you're not choking on it. you're spitting it rite back out- yay
Hey Nero,
I guess when you say home you mean NJ? You have been quite active lately posting your thoughts, is that because H was on his way and it makes you crazy?
I can't imagine having my H gone for so long to just come home and invade my peace. I hate when he comes home from work , I wish he would just evaporate , or disintegrate some how. We really have to face being powerless during this.
I find my H arrogant and self serving, yuck I really dislike him. Today the doc told me s21 has an -8 power prescription and H put his head down saying, ohh is there anything we can do? Shut up idiot, you hate us! I know, I know, you don't have to tell me he's spewing! I just don't care!
I hope your having a better day, take it one day at a time!
so are you and t sq scratching your heads and wondering where in the heck my brain is at???
i'm not too with it lately. of course- the gal in the mirror is the only one we have. it is doable- but it's lonely and brings out my insecurities - i'd say childhood and not being "special" to anyone- just one of the herd. it was nice to be someone's big fat ole major something.
just wannabe something big to someone
he says he's just enjoying "being alone" - i used to too, but then i didn't screw around, and "knew" i had someone special in my life out there. i guess maybe he assumes that's me and i'll always be here. (maybe he doesn't give a darn). BUT - he's also got ow and runs to his cellphone & epmail 90 times a day to profess his undying love & "flirt". wtf
i understand - but i'm not stooooopid .
SNODDERLY -
I CAN'T figure out where your thread is - and i can't figure out if i said this yesterday to you either. it was a emotional cyclone of a day- this mom-sick, sisters making me nuts - demands of nurses, etc.
Anyway- please excuse my nutty note - if i sent it somewhere. Anyway-
you got me thinking totally about this deep childhood baggage stuff. i always thought he was a person in control of self and had his childhood traumas sorted thru a bit. that is who he told me he was - i believed him always. boy was i wrong.
i stil wonder about it all tho - quite alot- because i think of the things that happened in all of ourlives - tragedies, unfairnesses, and how we all grow up- butch up- and get on with it. how shabby to use it as a reason to hurt people who love you//????
THEN i admit maybe stuff he has had in his brain hs whole life can affect him. then i think how the heck does it HAVE TO translate into cheaTING. obviously i am still unable to get all the peices lined up properly.
i have been thinking it over tho- i can see the personal tragedies in his little life and how they'd strike a kid. i can understand that.
anyway- i always come back to personal responsibility for actions - and decency and being an adult - so forth. it always seems to come down to him making conscious decisions to do what he's doing - complete with decimating me (whether he wants to admit it or not) and lying to keep me around. i've asked over the years when things were icky- believe me- it's hard as hell to ask when you think you might hear something you do not want to.
for him to lie in the face of my courage to ask- to jack me around and keep me hanging in there- that is what i cannot fathom. it's rather shameless. i do not know why i get stuck on this bit - that he should have cut me out of his life the minute he realized he was going to be cheating in earnest - (i can understand flirtation) i cannot understand wanting to keep around someone you were blamig and criticizing and making their life hell - FOR WHAT. WHAT could he possibly have gained by it other than more expense & aggravation having to lie and hide it- and what has it done to me?
even tho i essentially think i'm a good enough person in life -
i hate to admit the breadth and depth of the effect it's had - just a crumbling and chipping away - at my, well, i don't know- my ego i guess, my heart, my ability to trust anyone - like a crumbling little sand castle - just bit by bit. it seems very ratty to do to someone you didn't even like- how do they do it to someone they loved. (that being said - same deal ith my mother. i get it she's mad to be old & all the problems tht go with it- but being mean and critical and saying rotten things to the one person that's bvothering to be around her- WHAT THE???)
I am beginning to wonder how i manage to send out the message to people that i'm not worthy of honesty or courtesy.
obviously i'm sending out something here - i do not want to change and be like my sister that says one has to "draw blood" for people to perk up and listen - i hate people like that. obviously everyone around me feels similar- it's a war zone here. what the heck is up with that and why do some people feel that because they had this or that hardship or setback- someone else should PAY and be TO BLAME.
how can they think they are the only ones to ever feel pain? i mean really - grow up - use your brain - everyone of us is the same and needs the same things. well, so i think...
i wanna be understanding and liberal - but why do they get to shirk responsibility for their actions
just ranting around - so sorry , but it bugs me- i go round and round chasing my tail. i'm sure you've noticed - my particular insanity - overthinking.
need to go stop and tidy up a bit more.
I'VE HAD it with blame - wtf....
hi anyone - positive notes from me -
today, I just decided - that unlike my usual "self" - i'm just going to say a few positive things i've noticed - for better or worse - since I am always here ranting and raving and needing someone out there to "talk me down". today i'm trying to be positive and keep reinforcing it in my brain this morning- just re-read mlc portion of book - and then a few letters at the end. i'm trying a big new approach...
uh hem: (this is not to say i've got any notion i may "win" with this dbing - but who knows - ya gotta be in it to win it - rite?
i am less in a fog and more able to hold my pma -
I can laugh more and be my old self without (sometimes) feeling like my old self is who HE IS REJECTING - shove off that thought and just think - tough luck- this is who i am.
I actually find lately I enjoy painting, planning a project, and all the things i used to enjoyed alot- (pre-mlc) . it's little - but it's there and FEELING LIKE doing something for a change is great.
h is less critical on the whole - less ready & wanting to have a fight - less inspecting every word out of my mouth so he can find some fault with it - in general in life.
he's more pleasant to be around.
every now or then he actually manages to say a compliment instead of ONLY delivering the bad news. I sense he's trying to be more positive - i appreciate the "trying" part.
h continues to fly up here every few weeks. i usually cannot fathom why- but he does it...???... i usually dread it- but also feel like it's some kind of "support system" with my mom & life in general - whose crazy here - we don't know. i guess i'm seeing it as positive on his part
i just typed something not positive - and erased it. i'm working on stopping being such a misery guts and letting you all off the hook sometimes.
i'm feeling sometimes like i'm sick of hearing myself talk & stopping - i'm definitely TALKING AOBUT THIS crappola to my freinds less and less - letting them off hook too. i'm having some mercy i guess and seeing myself as a bit whiney- so i'm thinking regaining control of my ego and butching up a bit here?
it's not allllll about me in life - is it? i've got alot of those folks around me and i'm feeling like i need to stop even possibly being one of them. (we hate that - don't we)
it's all small stuff- but if i'm honest - i notice it and it's better than a year ago. i didn't pick up phone for five whole days- i didn't call and i didn't suffer - that's huge for me. I managed to stay uncommunicative til i was done being - whatever, insulted, angry, fill in the blank. (woo ho)
okay- i guess that's it- i hope it's just not laziness and getting used to this wierd life- i still don't think i want THIS forever - i feel less panic in the nite to make a decision RITE NOW- and squirming under my own pressure and expectations.
i think i'm a more patient person- i hope so- okay- i'm outta here.
i have a long long way to go with this i think, and i don't know how i'll make out in the end. today- i'm going tokeep a good thought and try and feel happ7y to see h -
it's 9 degrees - last nite it was 14 degrees and when we walked my left eyeball top eyelashes kept getting a snowball forming that made the street lites glare up my eye- and i had to crunch it off three times. first time ever - wierd & interesting huh?
xxoo thank you everyone for your continued support and listening to my *(usually) repetitive and negative rants- love ya all for caring & bothering.
(((( )))) (aren't i sickening when i'm not miserable & ranting?) sigh - - hard to get it rite isn't it?
Getting better. Just take it day by day.
OKAY GANG -
JUST PUt on makeup and re-read the book - so here's my addendum:
lost 10-15 lb (wasn't heavy to begin with - but it's nice to have it gone)
wear my skinny jeans and NEVER EVER sweatpants - (with icky baggie butts)
makeup every morning (mostly remember) & dye hair- is better i guess - that's anyone's call
BILLY joel was lying thru his teeth when he sang "don't go changin" - yeah- rite before he traded in old wife for that model
my foot & back seem better with weight loss - yay
got a christmas gift or two from h that he actually seemed happy to give and unlike last year- didn't feel like it was just something he felt compelled to do- but no heart in it.
okay that's it for me. i'll recapture my "pollyanna" if it kills me and everyone around me. . (i hope)
There ya go, nero...!
A plan, some ACTION, taking control of YOU...
I am looking forward to reading more about this and what transpires...
T^2
I can laugh more and be my old self without (sometimes) feeling like my old self is who HE IS REJECTING
maybe like me you no longer value the opinion of someone not worthy of having one about you.
i just typed something not positive - and erased it.
that's how I started to see the change in myself, I have erased whole paragraphs, it feels good!
i hope it's just not laziness and getting used to this wierd life
no, give yourself credit for how far you have come!
i'm going tokeep a good thought and try and feel happ7y
I am going to second that, I plan on having a great day, Not -H didn't come home from work this morning, oh well, perfect op for me to clean refreshen and invite someone over to my home!
so here's my addendum:
wear my skinny jeans and NEVER EVER sweatpants - (with icky baggie butts)
makeup every morning (mostly remember) & dye hair- is better i guess - that's anyone's call
okay that's it for me. i'll recapture my "pollyanna" if it kills me and everyone around me. . (i hope)
Ok, as I read this I need to change out of my sweats. Nothing I do or did when I was trying to win him back worked so I enjoyed the cold comfortably. Which I will continue to do with my kids, but make sure to get those skinny jeans out when leaving the house!
Pollyanna? I have to read up on that again, I think I fit that description as well.
I am soo excited that H is not here, I could do this everyday, the first thing I would love to do is dump my Tivo of his depressing military.
Its freezing here, gray and its a great day, sans H!
I'm glad for you Nero, really, please let us know whenever you feel that backslide, as we all do, that's what were here for!
Keep posting positive!!!!!
Hi Nero!
Well well well... Check you out, make-up, skinny jeans and all! I like it!
Yeah, remember that Billy Joel's model wife traded HIM in eventually...
Keep up that PMA girl!!!
hey hi
trying laptop - finger not so familiar with keys and hope to God i can erase histoy okay.
I AM GLAD billie joel got whata he dserved - evreyone shold - us inlcuded - man - thiis keyboard stinks
ANYWAY - since i'm not quite back to full pollyanna stature yet- here's me tihnking if we got what we deservedi t wuld all be gret stuff.
maybe like me you no longer value the opinion of someone not worthy of having one about you.
maybe you are rite and i'm done caring what his guy thinks of me. one an hope
he has filled up his (i just like being alone) other life with people that even i can see are smiialr to me - or fragments of me. one peson for this, one for that. i wonder what the hcek tha tis and were t al leads? to werd.
i'm sure he doesn't see it at all..
i may run off quicly- so if i disappear you knowm y dril here.
I WAN TO SAY dawn - that in my experiene - havnig him out of my face enables me to participat with 'theor' about this all in a more philosophial annre. whereas - having ihm next to me in bed nd here in my life is a waaay diferent manne. it's alot harder than when he's mia. no kidding - you are having the hard way alllll the time. there - you hjaving to witnss all the everything every day. i can feelm y stress level up a bit = you are rite. i's more REAL when they are ite there with you. i'm not sue whether that is god or bad - it jus sems to be the cas. the "issues" are more in th forefront of your life daily and minute to minute - rather than of iin the back of your brain.
I'd say of hte two of us - your "job" is the harder one.
so i'm apprciating alllll the work you do on this and all the incredible stress you tolerate (and i sounds like you're doing pretty well all things being considred - in general - in life) i admie that. your litle lite is still on- and i think alot of people who hae endured what you have - probalbly canot say thatl.
his keyboar stck - sorry for the mes s- back later
xxoo sitll on track ;mostly i think - well, no gunplay or "discussions" or anything deadly here. fingers crosed & odaat
onee day at a time - ta da. is that official? or did i make i up.??
(( ))
Nero
You never say that the the wrong thing or be pushy! I am here to hear it all, I can't stand people who say my ass looks good in those jeans as they shove their fingers down their throat.
It's a good day... It snowed!
hey - our snow was piddly- but very icy so sparkiling like mad last nite. had a walk- it was only a dusting so kind of disappointing.
mom up and down simultaneously here- it's scary on phone. this woman gonna drive me around some bend- wish she could get stablihzed - like h & rest of my life- hey- no wonder i feel like i'm stuck in a giant sh_t tornado??? everyone is spinning out of control & i'm in middle saying hey, what the heck is up with YOU???
GOOD LUCK WITH your h- fingers crossed & prayers sent up for some kind of stabilization in your life too. geeez - is it so much to ask.??
xxoo
billie joel- oh mannnnn
as ye sow - so shall ye reap. my matra (hope it's true)
pma alive, but stumbling along now that h in my face. its definitely harder by far to have it in your fac. when not around, can put on back burtner now or then and "not know" it so constantly.
he's not awful- but he's, well, him.
who the heck that is, anyone's guess.
he is takng mom shopping rite now tho- saves me, a bit or privacy. this business of getting accustom4ed to alone-ness is a bad one- because it makes a person too self-ori3ented i think.
just a thought here. i was a bit short this morning- it's me- it's being "watched" or "criticized" - my tolerance is low. need to work on itand remember to stfu- gonna put a big S on my rite hand- and an elastic band too- one should remind me.
i'm outta here
xxo