Hi all,
Some may remember me from 4 years ago as "fandgmom" - if my threads are still here, you can read what I went through by doing a search for my previous screenname. (I think)
Anyway, long story short...I feel like my H and I are back to square one again. He is unhappy, depressed, feels like a failure and is messed up in the head with all kinds of negative thoughts. He is back to saying/feeling he knows he loves me, but doesn't feel completely in love with me and he doesn't know why. This time is different because he is not blaming me or projecting onto me in any way at all. He says it's all him, not me - and that I haven't done anything wrong in his mind. There have been underlying issues since we got back together 4 years ago. Since then, and as good as things were alot of the time, I truly believed that he only came back for the sake of the kids and that is why he is back in this rutt again now. I don't think the issues within himself were ever resolved when we got back together. Also, since being back together, I've found out alot of stuff goes on behind my back. I know there was communication between him and the OW where she emailed him a nude picture. I know he emailed a previous so-called stalker woman of his and asked her to send him some pictures. He got into a relationship in Feb. of this year with a girl on FB - and I found a message from him to her that was so incriminating. He is aware that I know. Of course I've flipped out many times regarding all these instances, most of all the one in February, I told him I wanted a divorce. He begged and pleaded and promised me that with me is where he wants to be. And with regard to the thing in Feb. he said he was doing it for attention and doesn't know why. He knows/knew it was wrong and just feels so screwed up in the head. He went to a counselor a couple times and then stopped. Just two weeks ago I discovered that he had communication again with the girl from February. Then last week I found a message he sent to another on girl FB telling her that "her friend is pretty awesome, but don't tell her I said anything".
There's alot more detail involved but obviously I can't write it all out.
Guys/Girls - I am SOOOO lost. I don't even know what I feel anymore. I don't know what to do or think or feel. Do I belong in this forum or somewhere else?
Sorry, this wasn't so short....
Forgot to add that he is going to see a psychiatrist, we're in the works of getting an appt. I am going to see one as well. Maybe the same one as him, but individually and then maybe that Dr. can bring us both together, is the plan.
Sounds like you belong here.
Sorry you find yourself back. It appears that your H never left replay. He is still in it and you are back again.
Sorry that he didn't complete his journey.
That is something you can not control.
You must detach and relearn the lessons that the LBS should learn in their journey.
Again this is not your fault but you must start from the beginning. There are no shortcuts or easy ways out.
Only one way to climb this mountain.
That is straight up and over.
You need to start the climb. One step at a time.
If you need the links for the resources I am sure that I can get "cadet" to come post them to you.
Just put it down on your thread.
Thanks Lance. Yes, I do need the links again.
Hi Jennifer,
It sounds to me like your husband might possibly have a sexual addiction. Do you know if he's discussed this with his psych?
Puppy
No, I don't know if he has mentioned that notion to the guy he met with in March. He is going to someone new as soon as he can get an appt. I am not certain because I do not have proof but I get the feeling that there is/has been alot that goes on behind my back, that I DON'T know about.
Last night we sat at the kitchen counter and he spilled his guts to me. He was crying alot as he shared all of his negative thoughts about himself and all of the "whys" he has from his past/present. I just sat there and listened to him. The only thing I said was "When you go to talk to the new psych, please, not for anyone but for YOU, be completely honest with him, because if you are not honest, you cannot expect this to help you at all and then it would just be a waste of time" He agreed and said he is going to be honest.
Welcome to this board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready. Although I am not on the board that much anymore.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This is my
ultra new and improved list of links.
I would start with the detach link.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668NEW - Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Remember that in the stages of MLC it does NOT go 1,2,3,4,5,6
but can get all mixed up and repeat itself and have more than one stage at once.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
GAL.
Detach.
Use the time that your H has given you as a gift to
start to work on yourself.
Here is a link to one of your piecing threads.
It looks like some of your posts may have been deleted.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6144#Post786144
Hi all,
Figured I'd bump this up since I didn't receive much feedback.
We still haven't found a psychologist yet. It's awful trying to get an appointment. No one calls back or there is a 6-8 week wait for an appointment. My husband had a great analogy - he said it's like he is calling the suicide hotline and being put on hold. He truly wants help and can't get it.
Things are pretty normal at home other than the fact that he's utterly depressed most of the time which is difficult to deal with but I am taking things day by day. I just want to see him get help.
I almost feel like I am becoming numb to everything anymore.
The only thing I said was "When you go to talk to the new psych, please, not for anyone but for YOU, be completely honest with him, because if you are not honest, you cannot expect this to help you at all and then it would just be a waste of time" He agreed and said he is going to be honest.
That's great advice, Jennifer. I ALWAYS am in favor of telling the truth, but for the LIFE of me, I can't understand why people lie to:
1. Their doctor
2. Their individual counselor
3. Their attorney
It just doesn't make any sense, even from a selfish, "garbage-in/garbage-out" perspective, kwim??
And yet, it HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. I mean ...
who are you fooling?? Puppy
Since you can't seem to find a psychologist have you thought about at least seeing a spiritual counselor/advisor such as a pastor/priest/rabbi? Just a thought.
Is he willing to go for help?
What about his medical doctor, having everything checked out from a medical point of view?
Thyroid, hormones, these can all possibly cause problems.
If he is not willing to do these things you really are in a tough position and back to square one IMHO.
Hi Jen,
I'm here with a H that has PTSD ( from the war) alcoholism, and MLC. He is seeing a psychiatrist only because I forced the issue with his command ( he left me over it) and I have no idea if it's doing any good as he has taken up with a girl 15 years his junior who is probably undermining the whole issue.
SO, If your husband is willing to see a specialist, I say find one somewhere, anywhere, even if you have to travel to see one. Start with the MD, work over to a spiritual counselor, and then to a psychiatrist or psychologist. Be proud that you have a spouse that recognizes a problem and is willing to seek help. To to any lengths to find it. (((HUGS)))
I am sorry you are back JenniferA
It does sound like he did not complete his journey the first time around. As you know, in MLC, the addiction to whatever, alcohol, drugs, OP or pornography are just a bandaid to make them temporarily feel better!
Things are pretty normal at home other than the fact that he's utterly depressed most of the time which is difficult to deal with but I am taking things day by day. I just want to see him get help.
As Lance said, maybe a visit to a physician would be a great place to start. He could have several tests run including the one to see if he is experiencing male menopause. Even if that isn't the problem, at least he would "feel" like he has taken a step especially if he can't see a psych anytime soon!
Hang in there Jeniifer...you've done this once, you can do it again! Refresh your knowledge and arm yourself!
Jen, jumping in here and I know you don't know me, but please see if your H is willing to check with a medical doctor first. My H is deployed and wants to reconnect with me.
One of the things I have found out through his mail (he stopped it from being forwarded to the OW - says he is done with her - but I am still keeping expectations to zero) and him that he was getting a series of tests done before he deployed. He found out that he had low testerone which made him feel less than a man. He has been so unhappy with himself that it forced him to pull away from the very people (not just me as his wife, he also pulled away completely from his family) who know him best and who love him the most.
This information is still relatively new for me because he is trying to reconnect. I just validate and try to understand. I do not compromise me because that contributed to our situation.
Sometimes, I know men never want to admit or face the possibility of a medical issue.. and my H is definitely one of those guys, but it is amazing that he now admits he has a problem and even that he knows he put me through H$LL and has apologized. He wants to get better for himself no matter what happens. I think that is a good place for him to be and he must complete his journey as do I.
I hope you are able to convince him that seeing an MD would be a good start. I hope everything works out. Take Care.
Hi all,
I am really struggling here with all of this. Briefly, H and I discussed things Friday evening and because of how he has been (no emotion, emptiness, blank) and the way he is treating me (doesn't admit it fully but I believe he is talking to other women, to what extent, I am not sure) - he has been sleeping at his store (he owns a retail business) since Friday night. He said "I have not been good to you, so I should not be here"
I am trying so hard to keep it together for the kids and not break down but I am getting worse as the days go by that he hasn't slept at home. My mind is racing all over the place with thoughts of what he is doing and what he is up to. He doesn't call or text me at night - nothing. I shouldn't expect that though I guess since he wasn't giving me anything even when he was home. I barely slept last night and was crying alot of the time. My kids are starting to question things, specifically my 8 year old son. We didn't tell them that daddy isn't staying at home. My H told them that he had some stuff to do and wouldn't be around as much for a little while. He did see them on Sat and Sunday. And is getting them from school today.
He had his first psychologist appt. yesterday morning. He said it went ok and that he liked the Dr. The Dr. said he would be okay with seeing me individually as well. (This was my H's idea -for us to see the same Dr. separately and then if needed he can bring us in together down the road)
I don't know if this is MLC or what - I just feel so lost. I know I am a strong person but feel very weak and torn apart right now.
It does sound like very strange behavior, which can be very typical of someone in crisis.
It is also possible that he never completed the full MLC when you were here before.
They can then reycle backwards to finish their journey.
You must go back and start from the begining and figure out what part you had in contributing to this.
You must let him go to finish HIS crisis.
I am sorry to have to tell you this but there is no other way to fix this.
You must make the complete journey or else you will continue to repeat it over and over until you(and he) get it right.
You must go back and start from the begining and figure out what part you had in contributing to this.
I'm confused at your comment...I already did all the work on myself while we were separated in 2006. I made a ton of positive changes for myself, GAL, went back to work full-time, go out with girlfriends at least twice a month, I don't give him a hard time about anything - he has a great life - practices MMA 16 hours a week, goes out with his buddies whenever he wants (maybe once a week - sometimes less) and never hears crap from me about any of it - he wakes up in the morning, rolls out of bed, gets in the shower and leaves. There is NOTHING that I did to contribute to this, this time around. That is where he is coming from when he says I am not to blame at all this time. That it's all him, not me. (Complete opposite from when we separated 4 years ago) He has been telling me constantly for the past 4 years that our M has never been better and how happy he is with us!
I admitted fully last time that I needed to make some changes and improvements and I made them ALL(for me!) And so it turned out that he came back because he was really happy with what he saw.
This is where I am stuck - because what else do I need to do???? I'm not saying I am perfect - no one on this earth is. But I made the changes within myself 4 years ago - and in the end, it truly hasn't made any difference for him as HIS issues are all resurfacing again. And now he keeps harping on the M issues that we had BEFORE - the issues that have been resolved and that he can't seem to let go. Even though things have been great, I've been great, he can't get the PAST out of his head, so he tells me.
My trust issues may not have disappeared but he has not given me any reason TO trust him now or then. That's not my fault. It's him!
Ok Jen, maybe that is not what you needed to do.
I am not blaming you for your H crisis.
I am now just talking about basic DB'ing.
Having a "beginners mind"
This is HARD STUFF I am talking about.
If it was easy then there would be no crisis.
I wish I could tell you that you did x,y, or z wrong but I can not.
I only know that he did not finish his crisis for whatever reason that might be.
Take a look at the 6 stages of MLC to begin with.
Did he complete every stage?
I haven't read your old threads but it appears to me that he started and you were back together within a short time(In MLC time)
Again I will reiterate.
I am NOT blaming you for his crisis.
Jen, you sound very much in the same place as I am. My H came back after a few years, I thought he had worked through his issues> I thought it was going to be different this time and it was for about 6-8 months...now he is back in his tunnel. He doesnt act happy. I feel he is only there because it is convienent for him. He too has gone and done things behind my back. He took flowers last month to a girl he said was just a friend, but hid it from me. I dont trust him and that just brought it all back up for me. Now things are weird and we are walking on eggshells again. I hate it. Im miserable there with him. I miss the old him. He also goes to a therapist...but he admitted to me that he doesnt tell her everything. I know he hides alot from her that she really could help him with. Now its driving me crazy NOT knowing what he is up to in his head!
I feel for you, I really really do!! I have to keep reminding myself that this is NOT my crisis! This is my H's issue and there is nothing I can do about it!!
Thanks Lance - I understand what you are saying.
Kiss - Thank you for sharing with me. We are in a tough tough spot to say the least.
Talked with H last night and was completely relieved to find out that he was totally open and honest with the psychologist on Monday. He told me that he told him that he cheated on me and that he has a problem with desiring attention from other women in order to make himself feel better. (in addition to all of his other issues, of course)
It makes me feel so much better that he didn't hide anything. He also said to me, "you told me to be honest and I was - I can't get the help I need if I am not and end up getting answers to the wrong questions"
So, I have a call in to the psychologist and am waiting to hear back for my appointment.
Much better day today...and I slept well last night.
Jennifer,
For NO reason I could understand, I got drawn into this thread, and was really surprised to read what you're going through.....and I know how you feel; different situation, SAME kind of deal.
You've raised a POSSIBILITY of what can happen after the exit from the tunnel of MLC; it can't simply be ignored and glossed over, least of all by me, who is/has been dealing with a similar situation.
This is a VERY real possibility. Doesn't mean that everyone will deal in this way, but it is good to know, just in case.
Just so everyone knows who is reading this, I did NOT know beforehand this could happen....I never got everything in one sitting; it trickled down over the years. To know TOO much at one time, is to risk a LBS bolting and running away.
Jennifer, don't feel alone. I'd always wondered if anyone else had experienced what I have been experiencing for the past 6 years; what you describe is very similar to what my husband did 1 year and 10 months after he exited the tunnel.
He exited in late 2002, I went on into my transition; and things had seemed to be fine to begin with; we were rebuilding steadily, and our journeys, as a result of his crisis finished within weeks of each other.
But in September of 2004, something happened; there appeared to be a "going back" to what was; and he seemed to be going backward instead of forward.
At first I was at a loss, then my transition kicked into forward gear; and I went deep into it for 6 years; facing ALL I needed to face within myself.
Some things I remember, some things I don't; but when I came out completely, after completing the settling down process in late 2008/early 2009, I knew something was wrong; things definitely weren't as I'd left them; and my husband was in full rebellion.
Against what or who, I wasn't sure to begin with. Truthfully, I was puzzled, and when I prayed about it, the Lord began to open my understanding, somewhat, but I was having trouble comprehending what I was seeing.
I understood that this was NOT supposed to happen, but it did.
I searched myself first to see if it was something I needed to do, and concluded that it was NOT...it was HIM, not me.
Still, I prayed about it, getting part of the answer here, but more of it, as I opened myself to a greater understanding.
I felt like a guinea pig in a mad experiment, but it was what it was, and it is what it is, now.
I have come to understand in the past few months that it is not ONLY important to simply face the straightforward issues of the MLC tunnel; the MLC'er must also face the aspects, as well...and if ANY issues are "left over" coming out; a person is thrown into a different kind of tunnel; NOT the same one.
This is not an extension of MLC by any means, no matter what anyone might argue.
It is ENTIRELY possible to come through with an emotional block; that creates this left over issue or issues after trying to go through the settling down process and failing.
This did NOT happen to me, because during my transition I faced EVERYTHING; and nothing was left to chance; so, I didn't do this
This does NOT mean his processing was interrupted; on the contrary; it means that he is forced to face these additional issues that were NOT faced during the initial MLC; CONTINUING to process through...depending upon the severity of these "left over" issues/issue; it can go on for a number of weeks, months or even years.
Again, it is up to the person going through this extended period of time.
That is why your husband is NOT blaming you this time; though he questions his feelings for you. He had ALREADY faced what he'd had to face in regards to making a firm decision to stay with his marriage, job, life, etc.....so, he DOES know this is HIM and not you.
He's very frightened, looking at you for help; as he's seeing this in a reality he'd never seen it in before; and it's good that he's going for help.
All you can do is ride this out with him; you have NOTHING else you need to learn; you can only continue to rely on the lessons you learned during his time within the MLC tunnel.
IF he tries to connect with another woman through an EA; do NOT allow him to do this; this is NOT the same crisis he went through before, and you have MORE power than you had previously.
You do NOT have to back away from him like you did before...it truly IS different in this type of go around.
Sure, he could leave any time he wanted to, notwithstanding....yet, your help is important to him; you're his wife, still his stanchion, just like before.
It would be perfectly acceptable to come down hard on him, drawing a firm line on any kind of bad behavior that he exhibits.
Different rules apply here, because they are even MORE aware of what they are doing during this period of time; their awareness is clear, NOT foggy. Just so you know.
The reason I say this these things; I had to break up an EA during that time; and I had to constantly stay on him, making him do what was right by me; and I KNEW with a certainty that he KNEW exactly what he was doing.
When he argued, there was NONE of the crazymaking or spewing they do within the MLC....he sounded like a man that KNEW exactly what he was about; and he got quite upset with me, but went no farther, except to do what I actually demanded of him.
He was trying to act like he wasn't married; much like a WAS; and I treated him like a WAS; taking NO crap from him.
Hey, this was war, and I was taking NO prisoners; it was all or death...which way it went, didn't matter to me.
I ALMOST made him leave; because the Lord had indicated this might be a possibility; yet, it didn't happen.
I was paying ALL the bills, while he was going through his money like crazy
After I came down on him very hard about not pulling his weight once again, and he saw that I meant business, he started falling in line within that area.
He was ignoring my boundaries, in full rebellion, so I had to become a very harsh person, totally against my nature...to get through to him....and I did, a little at a time; especially in the months before he broke his ankle. THAT got his attention, moved him forward, and by now, he's coming on out; the changes are ones I'd seen before when he'd exited the tunnel in late 2002.
Before it was all over with, he was seeing me as "Mom", and you would NOT believe the tattling he was doing on our son; trying to cause trouble.
Some of it, I missed, as I was going through my transition, but some of it, I had to deal with in an ongoing sort of way.
It really does look like the tunnel all over again, but with a different set of rules this go around.
Believe me, I have been there; and am just now watching my husband come through this different type of tunnel as we speak.
His leftover issue was his parents divorce when he was 7, and that 7 year old child made an appearance; staying out front while the man hid from me, as the man didn't know what to do.
My boundaries were hard as a rock, and I was NOT afraid he would leave....intuitively, I knew he would NOT.
I didn't let any grass grow under my feet when my husband did things I didn't like....I went right after him.
As each person is different each extended time to face missed issues is different; and as long as your husband is getting help; I'd simply keep an eye on him.
This is a different kind of running away than he did before; and the handling of this would be different.
Quite honestly, I'd hoped I would be the only one who'd had to deal with this, and I'm sorry you're having to deal in this way.
You're not in the wrong place; there's just a lack of information, regarding something like this happening.
I'd honestly hoped I would not have to bring this out; but I couldn't make you think you were all alone...you're not.
As a matter of fact, there's NOTHING in the way of research on this extended time that can happen; believe me, I had looked to see BEFORE I came here back in February.
All I know is what I've dealt with in the past 6 years.
I fully realize what I'm outlining from the recent past, seems to be worse than what you are dealing with currently, but ones that deal and have dealt with this extended time know it carries it's own brand of h-e-double hockey sticks...and is NO easier to deal with.
Initially, I came back here because of that....and ended up advising on MLC once again.
No worries, though; we'll make it through this, and get back on track in time.
There, you have it; HB came back with a few issues occurring AFTER the initial tunnel..did this mean I failed? NO, I did NOT fail; I took the journey, made the changes, did all I was supposed to do.
I was successful as an individual, in spite of what happened afterward.
But I was NEVER to blame; it was MY husband that failed to face everything at one time, not me.
I'm still with him; and I guess that says something for me; but in NO way does it say that I'm weak; not at all.
It takes MORE strength to stand, than it does to walk away, and I will tell you all one more thing; I was and STILL am a STANDER; not because I'm "addicted" to my husband, but because I chose to continue to honor my vows that I took over 25 years ago, now.
Those vows include "for better OR for worse"; I've never forgotten that.
Only God knows what the future holds, and though I don't know what tomorrow will bring, I trust HIM with my life.
I know with a certainty that ALL things happen for a reason. I may not understand that reason, but again, what I don't understand, I will lay at His feet to contend with.
Hang in there, Jennifer; the road is sometimes very long, but know that God continues to be there; and He works within the background.
Don't give up; there's still hope as long as you love your husband, and are willing to help him through once again.
I will bookmark this thread, looking in on you, as I can.
Much love,
HB
HB - Thank you so much for sharing with me. I really, really appreciate it. I can't write much at the moment because I am at work. But I wanted to mention something...
You said do not allow him to connect with other women...how do I do that when it has already happened over the past 4 years, several times, with several women and is still on-going. Did you happen to read what I posted yesterday that he told the psych. that he cheated on me and has issues with always desiring other women to make himself feel better? Also, he is not staying at home right now, as of last Friday. I do not have control over anything he does. How do I stop him from doing what he wants to do? I can only control myself, I can't control someone else. He says he knows its wrong but does it anyway.
This morning I get a text from him asking me how I am. I said ok - how r u? He said "Horrible. F-ed up mentally in the my head and shoulder/neck are killing me" I said "what's going on in your head? Did something happen?" He said "I just don't know what I want or what I should do" and I replied "As far as what?" and he said "everything" - I said "sorry you feel the way you do" and he said "Me too" - then a little time went by and I know this was probably wrong but I texted "I guess you're finding life without me is making you happier?" and he just texted me now "Not that at all"
Should I ask him to come home? I'm so lost because I also don't want to be a doormat - having it seem that I am accepting of his behavior or the way he is acting towards me - blank, lifeless, confused, depressed. No matter what I just don't see how I can MAKE him stop that "other women" crap.
Again, thank you HB for sharing with me. I need to take more time to read and absorb your sitch. Please do check on me - I can't thank you enough for caring.
Jennifer...I dont give advice much, but from my own experience I dont think I would ask him to come home right now. He clearly isnt ready. I know i made a mistake in letting my H come home before he had his issues straightened out. Give it more time.
You said do not allow him to connect with other women...how do I do that when it has already happened over the past 4 years, several times, with several women and is still on-going. Did you happen to read what I posted yesterday that he told the psych. that he cheated on me and has issues with always desiring other women to make himself feel better? Also, he is not staying at home right now, as of last Friday. I do not have control over anything he does. How do I stop him from doing what he wants to do? I can only control myself, I can't control someone else. He says he knows its wrong but does it anyway.
This is where your boundaries come in; as long as he is doing things such as this, there is NO relationship with YOU.
You cannot control what he does, but you CAN control what YOU do.
I made it very plain that I would NOT have a relationship/marriage with my husband as long as he was having the EA he was having with another woman.
Mine had had an affair while within the tunnel that went to a PA; but that was NOT repeated in this latter time.
My husband had not left home, but I turned my back on him after setting this boundary; I KNEW he knew what he was doing was wrong; taking energy out of the marriage and putting it somewhere else.
In the interim, I went completely COLD on him; not contacting him, forcing him to pursue me, wouldn't answer the phone; wouldn't talk to him.
He and I are both truck drivers....the no contact was necessary, as I was NOT going to sacrifice my self respect, he was NOT going to walk on me like that.
It scared him, my actions told him he would lose me if he didn't do something.
It confused me at the time, but I laid down boundaries very firmly; and he got very upset with me about it...yet, I knew it had gotten to a point it didn't matter to me.
He was either going to straighten up or leave, however it went.
He ended up straightening out, because he honestly did not want to lose me....I made it clear that this would be up to him.
He cut all contact; and even switched SIM cards with me, so I had his cell number, and he had mine.
She didn't try too many times before she stopped calling.
I didn't have to deal with another.
Your husband is clearly NOT ready to come home, and I wouldn't ask him to. He has many things to work through at the moment.
If you ask him to come home and he does; he might cut and run again, if he cannot accept your boundaries.
He might do that, anyway; but that would NOT be your problem, it would be HIS.
But the line clearly needs to be drawn; boundaries are not for him, but for YOU.
You have to decide what's best for YOU; because this decision is clearly up to you.
He says he knows it's wrong,but does it anyway; that should tell you he's AWARE of what he is doing; and your boundary should be laid clearly.
This is a cycle and he's cycling back and forth throughout.
This morning I get a text from him asking me how I am. I said ok - how r u? He said "Horrible. F-ed up mentally in the my head and shoulder/neck are killing me" I said "what's going on in your head? Did something happen?" He said "I just don't know what I want or what I should do" and I replied "As far as what?" and he said "everything" - I said "sorry you feel the way you do" and he said "Me too" - then a little time went by and I know this was probably wrong but I texted "I guess you're finding life without me is making you happier?" and he just texted me now "Not that at all"
No, what you said was NOT wrong; you were testing the waters to see where he stands.
He's definitely got some serious problems, but he's still coming back to you. He wants you, but seems to be seriously messed up in the head.
I believe someone mentioned possible sexual addiction; and that's also possible.
Someone also mentioned he may not have left the Replay stage; and that is also entirely possible.
I realize this is very confusing; but I'm advising you to lay boundaries that should have been laid long ago.
The last time I checked, marriage was for TWO people, not three or four or five.
He still wants you, that much is evident; but you cannot possibly be expected to accept what's happening with him.
Keep us posted on how it goes with the psychologist.
Give it time; time is what you have...you will know if the ties will need to be cut permanently, there are people that cannot be helped no matter what you do.
Food for thought; in some cases you can only go so far before you have to admit to yourself that you've done all you can do, and cannot do any more.
Since your husband is admitting his issues, there's a good chance that he will come through and heal.
In the meantime, you'll need to wait and watch, and see what happens.
Keep us posted.
Yes, I am mad at myself for not setting boundaries a long time ago. I guess I could consider myself an enabler at this point. It's just that the different times that I confronted him about inappropriate emails he would promise it wouldn't happen again. And when the EA began rather quickly the beginning of this year, I found out right away and he ended it immediately and was supposed to start counseling - he went for 2 sessions and never went back because we couldn't afford that particular Dr as he wasn't in-network on my insurance. I feel that maybe I should have been harder on him about continuing to talk to a therapist and finding one in-network instead of letting it go and thinking things were going to be okay. Then, a few months later, I found that he contacted her again or she him, I am not sure of the details. And he gave me the excuse that she sent someone into his store - which I flipped my lid about because she shouldn't be sending anyone anywhere with regard to my husband bottom line - I said "how nice, things between you and her are just fine and your wife sits here all screwed up in the head?"...the thing is, I can only imagine what I DON'T know.
You're right I may get to a point where there is nothing else I can do. The end of my rope, so to speak. I can't live like that anymore - and it's either going to change or we are done. He knows that, I have said those exact words to him.
You're right I may get to a point where there is nothing else I can do. The end of my rope, so to speak. I can't live like that anymore - and it's either going to change or we are done. He knows that, I have said those exact words to him.
Then, you've effectively put the ball in HIS court.
Was this the point where he decided to get help? I certainly hope so, as I should think you've taken all you can take of his bad behavior.
You should probably have come down on him much harder than you did, but to beat yourself up about that now, is the same as crying over spilled milk.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, forgive yourself for being human and move forward, Jennifer.
At the time you were letting things go, you thought were doing the right thing...and sometimes it's hard to know what to do at times.
You take a chance, either way you decide to go; you set boundaries, you could lose them, you don't set boundaries you could STILL lose them...so you don't have anything to lose by setting healthy boundaries for your own protection.
You hope they come out of it, but when you see a cycle beginning; boundaries are the first thing you should do.
It's not too late; he's getting help for his problem.
Now, you wait and watch to see what happens next.
I only hope he sees the light of day; and begins to face his problem...it is the first step toward healing within himself.
Keep us posted.
Jennifer,
I am so sorry that you find yourself in this sitch but I can relate to all you're going through.
H and I R in May 2009 and during most of this period he has continued with similar behaviours as you've described above. Although I have put boundaries in place, I have not been consistent in following through. If you are going to set a boundary with your H, please ensure you follow through otherwise he will not take you seriously and it ends up becoming a vicious cycle.
At this point since he's already staying elsewhere, I don't think you should ask him to come home. He needs to work through HIS unresolved issues and it's much healthier for you that he's out of the house. I hope he gets the help he needs. I wish my H would agree to seek IC/MC.
Thanks HB for your support, I appreciate you checking in on me. As far as his decision to seek help, well, that decision was made in August, partly because he is so depressed and doesn't know how to fix it and partly because I suggested it - it wasn't a 'get help or we are done' type of thing, if that's what you're asking.
H was here last night with the kids because I went out with a girlfriend. We talked about stuff this morning, initiated by him. He basically told me he doesn't know how to stop the "OW" stuff - that as long as he has all of the negative going on in his head, it continues. He is still bringing up our marital issues from the past, (the ones that I worked on and fixed, and while for the past 4 years he told me our R has never been better - so confusing really), the reason we separated 4 years ago, and tells me he just can't get it all out of his head and that is part of the reason why he does what he does. So, he actually IS indirectly still blaming me for some of the negative he speaks of. Not on the forefront like before but indirectly.
And my boundaries are clear. We do not have a R aside from dealing with the kids. I cried and said "my husband doesn't love me enough to stop doing the wrong thing, that hurts, alot" He was crying, alot. Saying he wishes things were different and this isn't how he wants things to be. That he hopes I know he isn't doing anything intentionally against me. He said he was sorry that he has put us in this situation.
He told our S this morning that he has some issues in his head that need to be worked on, that he has made some bad decisions, and he is not around much so that mommy and daddy don't argue. That it isn't S fault and he didn't do anything wrong. He also told him that mommy didn't do anything wrong.
He has another appt. tmw morning with the counselor. And at this point, I feel rather...helpless.
I honestly do not know what if anything, I can do. He doesn't even seem to care that he is losing his wife.
I honestly do not know what if anything, I can do. He doesn't even seem to care that he is losing his wife.
Jennifer,
It sounds to me like he does care. He's just in so deep he can't see the forest through the trees. He hasn't faced his issues from within and it still keeps him spinning. That's why he still blames you indirectly for the problems.
Hopefully he's got a good IC that can help him to face and work out those issues.
There really is nothing you can do to fix this for him. It's all got to come from himself. It sounds as though he may be starting to realize they are his issues.
Step back off the rollercoaster. It's going to take time and patience on your part to let your H finish his journey, but it has to be done by himself.
When he's through, he may come looking for you and then you'll have some decisions to make.
You can do this.
Time will tell; and you must stay strong, regardless of how this goes.
At this point you have one of two decisions; one, to wait it through, two, to let it all go for good.
Whatever you decide to do is up to you.
I know he must want to be helped, or he won't BE helped.
He is in "pity me" mode at the moment; but don't give him that.
It must be one or the other; the marriage OR the other women, there is NO in between; there's been a great deal of damage done; and he is beginning to see that.
People will treat us as we allow them to; and although he loves you, he cannot be allowed to continue in this way.
One of the consequences I believe he's beginning to see is that he will LOSE you; if he doesn't put his best foot forward, and continue his path to get help.
Sexual addiction is a real problem with some men; and it takes many of them a long time to heal, IF they get the necessary help they need to work toward that healing.
It can also play a big part in the MLC; as it is escape and avoidance behaviors.
SA is right; your husband DOES care; but the addiction has a huge grip on his life.
Get off the rollercoaster, detach and distance from his drama; it is HIS problem; don't make it yours.
You can help by praying for him; the power of a praying wife is something to behold in action.
You can do this, Jennifer; you've come this far; you can go a little further.
Remember, you can't fix this for him; you can only be there for him, keeping yourself strong.
Keep us posted on how you and he are.
Remember God works behind the scenes; and He knows all things; He knows the pain, the misery...and although working toward the solution is always painful; He is there to support us because we can't get through these things without Him.
You must let your husband go into the hands of God, and allow Him to work within your husband.
Take care of yourself.
HB - again, thank you.
Addie - I'm sorry that it appears you are dealing with a very similar situation. I read alot of your thread in piecing...very similar indeed. The secretiveness, H would always change his password as soon as he knew I figured one of them out...cell never left his side...the only time he was affectionate towards me was when he wanted to ML. Funny, but not, at the same time, I noticed a few days after he started sleeping at his store last week, he downloaded the facebook app. to his Droid. Why did he do that I asked myself. I believe the answer is so that he can be on facebook anytime he wants and will not show up as being on-line because you do not show up on chat/on line when you log in through your phone.
So many things are all starting to add up in my mind. All the while he always made me feel like I was the crazy one for thinking such things. The constant wandering eyes no matter where we were - I'd question him on it and he'd tell me I was wrong. It was disgusting how much he did it and so damn disrespectful to me. I've known it, it was all out there right in front of me but I did NOT want to believe it.
Promising me that this is where he wanted to be and that me and the kids were his world. That there was no one else...thing have never been better with us is what he told me for the past 4 years. That there was never anything wrong and that he was SOOO happy with "us".
I think deep down I knew something was not right. Deep down, I knew...but didn't want to believe...that he came back mostly for the kids...deep down I knew that over the past 4 years he has never looked at me the way he USED to look at me...I never got that feeling that he was in love with me like I was with him...deep down I knew the discoveries of indiscretions and inappropriate emails and messages were the proof that I was right...but didn't want to believe that. I wanted to believe him.
Now, here we are...again...today, my self confidence is in the freakin toilet. I wonder why am I not good enough. What has my whole life really been? Looking back, I am beginning to feel the past 12 years with him has been nothing but a lie. I wonder if maybe all this time, he has been trying to be something he just can't be. That he has been wearing a mask and maybe I didn't really know the REAL H. And maybe that is where all this inner turmoil of his stems from...because he just can't do it anymore...maybe he can't keep hiding from his true self and wearing the mask.
He told me he bought $60 worth of wood yesterday so that the guys at MMA class could video them breaking the pieces of wood on my H's body. He told me he is beginning to realize that his obsession with MMA is his own form of self punishment. They all spar together and beat the crap out of my H because he can stand there and take it all.
Need to get some sleep...can't wait for work tomorrow - it's my sane place right now. Thank God for that.
Blew a gasket on H tonight. Couldn't help it. I was upset and yelled at him that I didn't choose this, he did. He said he isn't against me. I said then what are you, for me? He said I don't know, that's why I'm going to counseling. I'm trying. I said trying what? He's not trying anything.
I feel like we've gone right back to where we were 4 years ago. He's back to blaming me again, for the past, for the wrong in our marriage BEFORE we separated the first time. Saying he just can't get all of that negativity and resentment towards me out of his head.
I'm so screwed up right now. I'm so lost and confused. I fixed everything that was an issue with me before. I became the person he fell in love when we first met. I can't believe we are right back where we were. The last 4 years of him telling me how happy he was with us, how wonderful our marriage was, was all a lie?
He told me tonight that he has every reason to have these negative feelings...I spoke of how badly he has hurt me now...he said oh yeah, you've never hurt me. So I said ok, I deserve to be cheated on? I deserve to be lied to constantly? I deserve to be the only female in your life who didn't know the truth? I deserve for all these other women to know you were unhappy but I'm the one left in the dark?
Seriously, WTF am I dealing with here? I'm losing it...I am so SICK of crying. I swear this hurts worse now than it did 4 years ago. I thought I was a strong person but I feel so weak and helpless right now.
Jennifer -
I am sorry you are so low right now. Last week I had the week from H3LL!!! But guess what - I've gone 2 days without crying!!! The best advice I can share is that the way you will make it here is by detaching from him. My H had MULTIPLE PAs with anonymous women. Now he has apparently found an OW - have no idea who, etc. Here's the deal - it's not about him right now. It's about YOU. Take a step back - focus on your beautiful children, focus on you, and close your ears to his babble. It doesn't make sense now - so don't try to make sense of it. Breathe.
IB
I fixed everything that was an issue with me before. I became the person he fell in love when we first met. I can't believe we are right back where we were.
Jennifer, this ^^^ is simply more confirmation that this is NOT about you. I'm sure you made those changes as much for yourself as in response to the things your H said that stung, but you also had an expectation that your changes would make a difference in your H's crisis or help to restore your M. Regardless of the changes you make, until your H faces his issues, he will still be in crisis.
That he is in counseling is a good thing. While he is, you must detach from his craziness as best you can and get on with your life. As IB says...breathe.
((Jennifer))
I'm so screwed up right now. I'm so lost and confused. I fixed everything that was an issue with me before. I became the person he fell in love when we first met.
Really? From here it looks like you still have some work to do hon ...
Now, here we are...again...today, my self confidence is in the freakin toilet. I wonder why am I not good enough.
Blew a gasket on H tonight. Couldn't help it. I was upset and yelled at him
Jennifer ... I could sugar coat this and say nice sweet things, but a) it’s not really my style
, and b) that probably won’t help you out any. So ...
Your emotions are still so wrapped up in H. Sounds to me like you “fixed” whatever you thought H wanted you to fix ... what did you do for YOU? The work we do is really to save ourselves ... yes, we come here to save our marriages, but what we should discover is that first we need to be our best selves, know who we are, find our own truth and be true to who we are and who we want to be. The side effect of making those real and authentic changes may, or may not, be a saved marriage. Either way, we will be better for the process as individuals. And yes, Jennifer, I do truly and actually believe every word of this.
If your self confidence is in the toilet then it was still tied to something outside yourself. Why?
I get that you were upset ... but yes, you could help it. You chose to “blow a gasket”. You chose to let your emotions rule your behaviour. As adults we make choices, some of them easier and more natural than others. This was a choice. Is it a choice you want to continue to make?
He told me tonight that he has every reason to have these negative feelings...I spoke of how badly he has hurt me now...he said oh yeah, you've never hurt me.
Your H does have a right to his feelings ... you don’t have to agree with them, you don’t have to condone them, but he still has a right to feel how he feels. That does not obliterate your right to feel the way you do. This can’t be a pissing contest ... this can’t be “who hurt who more” ...
At this time in the game what I think most would tell you to do is validate. Listen and validate. Yes this should be a two way street but when someone is trying to voice their feelings your first response can’t be to counter with yours. IMO, it comes across as blaming. Trust me, I get how hard this is ... took me a long time to learn to open my ears and shut my mouth. Took me even longer to learn to turn those ears on and actually listen instead of creating a laundry list of his faults and errors while he tried to tell me how he felt. Especially since I was hurt, betrayed, confused ... you get the idea.
Seriously, WTF am I dealing with here?
An alien? MLC? Selfishness? Does it really matter? You need to turn your focus to you and truly look in the mirror and find the woman Jennifer wants to be. Dig her out, clean her closets, dust her off and stand her up.
I'm losing it...I am so SICK of crying. I swear this hurts worse now than it did 4 years ago. I thought I was a strong person but I feel so weak and helpless right now.
You are here. That shows me that you have strength. And you have tools at your disposal too ... this stuff is not for the feint of heart ... but you can do it.
(((hugs)))
PEI
I'm confused at your comment...I already did all the work on myself while we were separated in 2006. I made a ton of positive changes for myself, GAL, went back to work full-time, go out with girlfriends at least twice a month, I don't give him a hard time about anything - he has a great life - practices MMA 16 hours a week, goes out with his buddies whenever he wants (maybe once a week - sometimes less) and never hears crap from me about any of it - he wakes up in the morning, rolls out of bed, gets in the shower and leaves. There is NOTHING that I did to contribute to this, this time around. That is where he is coming from when he says I am not to blame at all this time. That it's all him, not me. (Complete opposite from when we separated 4 years ago) He has been telling me constantly for the past 4 years that our M has never been better and how happy he is with us!
I admitted fully last time that I needed to make some changes and improvements and I made them ALL(for me!) And so it turned out that he came back because he was really happy with what he saw.
This is where I am stuck - because what else do I need to do???? I'm not saying I am perfect - no one on this earth is. But I made the changes within myself 4 years ago - and in the end, it truly hasn't made any difference for him as HIS issues are all resurfacing again. And now he keeps harping on the M issues that we had BEFORE - the issues that have been resolved and that he can't seem to let go. Even though things have been great, I've been great, he can't get the PAST out of his head, so he tells me.
My trust issues may not have disappeared but he has not given me any reason TO trust him now or then. That's not my fault. It's him!
PEI - Very quickly, if you'll read my quote above from an earlier post last week...you'll find that I DID make the changes for MYSELF. Not for my H. I made the changes for me, to be a better person and mother.
I'd like to comment further, but I am at work and have to go. I'll be back
PEI - Very quickly, if you'll read my quote above from an earlier post last week...you'll find that I DID make the changes for MYSELF. Not for my H. I made the changes for me, to be a better person and mother.
I see you saying that, but then I also see you saying ....
Now, here we are...again...today, my self confidence is in the freakin toilet. I wonder why am I not good enough.
His crisis ... or whatever you want to call this ... is about HIM, not you. It has nothing to do with how worthy you are, nothing to do with whether or not you are a "good wife", etc ...
Have you done any reading on male depression? I'm not a big believer in over doing the "studying" when it comes to our sitchs (I'd rather see someone spend the time digging deep into themselves) but a certain amount of it does breed compassion and understanding. Once you achieve those you are in a much better place to make choices.
Look forward to hearing more....
PEI
I'm so screwed up right now. I'm so lost and confused. I fixed everything that was an issue with me before. I became the person he fell in love when we first met. I can't believe we are right back where we were. The last 4 years of him telling me how happy he was with us, how wonderful our marriage was, was all a lie?
Jennifer,
You're not the one that is screwed up, your H is. Try not to take what he is saying personally. I know all too well how hard this is to do and, yes, I've blown many a gasket at my H recently. The issues have very little to do with you. Your H is obviously still in a lot of turmoil and until he deals with those issues the problems will keep recurring no matter how many changes you make to yourself.
Try to detach as much as possible and set some boundaries that you think you will be able to enforce.
Really? From here it looks like you still have some work to do hon ...
Yes, you are correct. These are all just feelings I am having right now. But you are right...I have much work to do in the self esteem department.
Jennifer ... I could sugar coat this and say nice sweet things, but a) it’s not really my style
, and b) that probably won’t help you out any. So ...
Your emotions are still so wrapped up in H.
Very true. I guess because this is so recent and sudden and I need to re-learn detachment - however it may seem that I felt something wasn't right all along.
If your self confidence is in the toilet then it was still tied to something outside yourself. Why?
Great question...something I need to work on.
I get that you were upset ... but yes, you could help it. You chose to “blow a gasket”. You chose to let your emotions rule your behaviour. As adults we make choices, some of them easier and more natural than others. This was a choice. Is it a choice you want to continue to make?
I completely agree that I chose to do so. I was upset...someone at the MMA school said something that led me to believe H might have said something about our sitch to the guys there. It set me off because he isn't telling them the truth...he's telling him that "we are having problems at home" That upsets me because I have grown to really fond of the people/family at MMA and have always felt so "at home" there. Now..I'm beginning to feel like an outsider because it's HIS place and they will believe him when he starts blaming me for all this crap - because he's too embarrassed to say what he's done wrong. It's just upsetting, that's all. And I know....it's all speculation...but I upset myself thinking about it.
Your H does have a right to his feelings ... you don’t have to agree with them, you don’t have to condone them, but he still has a right to feel how he feels. That does not obliterate your right to feel the way you do. This can’t be a pissing contest ... this can’t be “who hurt who more” ...
Of course he has a right to his feelings, I wasn't telling him he didn't...that was him saying that as an excuse for the wrong that he has done now.
At this time in the game what I think most would tell you to do is validate. Listen and validate. Yes this should be a two way street but when someone is trying to voice their feelings your first response can’t be to counter with yours. IMO, it comes across as blaming.
Allow me to explain that this was all via text...and it was all HIS reaction to ME voicing my feelings. Not the other way around. HE turned it into a pissing contest.
An alien? MLC? Selfishness? Does it really matter? You need to turn your focus to you and truly look in the mirror and find the woman Jennifer wants to be. Dig her out, clean her closets, dust her off and stand her up.
Agreed.
I need to read and catch up on your sitch
Thanks for being here for me and for caring.
I need to read and catch up on your sitch
Thanks for being here for me and for caring.
Just a warning ... I have a bit of a rep for being long winded ... you might want to make a pot of coffee
Peace
PEI
Didn't hear from H last night or this morning before I took the kids to school. After I dropped them both off, I got a text from him asking me if I wanted to meet him so he could take my cell and upgrade mine to a crackberry (lol). I said sure, so we met in a parking lot, both got out of our cars and he came over, kissed me on the cheek and gave me a huge hug. (which was nice) I stared at him for a few seconds and said "I hope you know how much I truly care about you" - he said "sometimes I don't think you do" I said "ok, I guess I don't understand why" He started talking about our relationship from the past again and how he just can't get all the negative thoughts out of his head. He said he just wants to be happy and he doesn't know how to do that. That he just doesn't know what to do at this point. He feels like he is losing his family and he is worried he is going to lose his business. I stood calmly and listened. I said "I can understand the negative thoughts I guess because now I have them too" And he said that it worries him that I will ALWAYS have the negative thoughts now (because of what he's done) and that I won't ever be able to get over them. I still just stood calmly and listened. He asked what I was thinking and I said "I'm just listening...and there really isn't anything I can say right now to change the way you feel...I can't remove those negative thoughts from your mind" He said he was sorry. Then we talked about S8 for a minute. He said he would let me know when the phone was done. I said and how are you going to do that? You'll have my phone, lol! He said "yeah - you are right -thanks for making me laugh, I needed that" He asked if it would be okay if he picked up S8 from school and went to the house to do laundry. I said that would be fine.
That's it for now...
Wow - thank goodness the site is back up! I was missing my support!!
It's been a rough few days. I'm growing sooo mentally exhausted from being blamed for HIS issues. It's like the past 4 years have meant nothing and he admitted tonight that he did in fact come back solely for the kids sake 4 years ago. He said maybe he came back for the wrong reasons but not with the wrong intentions. I just don't get it guys. Guess it's not for me to get right? Why the H did he try to make me believe for the past 4 years that everything with us was SOOO great? And now this...we are right back where we were. I am so tired of being blamed. So tired. I do not know who this man is...and I swear there has to be someone else and he is denying denying. He asks me "why does this have to be about 'someone else'?" Which of course makes me think that he is just smoke and mirrors because I know how he operates. I think that he wants himself and everyone else to believe that this is all my fault and that it has nothing to do with 'someone else' if there is a someone else.
I am growing to hate this man.
Wow - thank goodness the site is back up! I was missing my support!!
It's been a rough few days. I'm growing sooo mentally exhausted from being blamed for HIS issues. It's like the past 4 years have meant nothing and he admitted tonight that he did in fact come back solely for the kids sake 4 years ago. He said maybe he came back for the wrong reasons but not with the wrong intentions. I just don't get it guys. Guess it's not for me to get right? Why the H did he try to make me believe for the past 4 years that everything with us was SOOO great? And now this...we are right back where we were. I am so tired of being blamed. So tired. I do not know who this man is...and I swear there has to be someone else and he is denying denying. He asks me "why does this have to be about 'someone else'?" Which of course makes me think that he is just smoke and mirrors because I know how he operates. I think that he wants himself and everyone else to believe that this is all my fault and that it has nothing to do with 'someone else' if there is a someone else.
I am growing to hate this man.
Jen ... you need to detach, and stop buying what he's trying to sell to you!
You are not to blame for his issues, and you know it, so stop letting it affect you and exhaust you!
You can not read his mind ... maybe he came back for the kids and made an honest try, maybe he didn't and it's all been bull ... you can't tell so stop beating yourself up over it.
Sounds like text book crisis to me, and it was interupted 4 yrs ago when he came back and now it's rearing it's ugly head again. Don't buy into his spew, DETACH!
Peace
PEI
Jennifer,
I was missing my support!!
Many of us on are the alt so you can always get a hold of someone that way was well. Become a fan of DB and I am sure that Cadet will find you and direct you to the right people.
It's been a rough few days.
Just remember one thing…it can always be worse. Do you have a bed to sleep in? Did you eat today? Are your children clothed? Really Jennifer it can be worse. One of the hardest thing we fight is our internal desire to really look for the silver lining in any difficult sitch. Think about that….can you find a silver lining in YOUR sitch (psstt…here is a hint…it has NOTHING to do with YOUR H)?
I'm growing sooo mentally exhausted from being blamed for HIS issues.
You know I used to tell my staff all the time that “in difficult sitch’s stars shine”…”when the going get tough…the cream always rises to the top”. Your exhausted but not defeated OR are you? You are only defeated when YOU feel you are defeated? Maybe you are mentally exhausted because you are spending so much time “thinking” about your sitch as opposed to “thinking” about what YOU want, What YOU need, and where YOU want your life to go.
It's like the past 4 years have meant nothing and he admitted tonight that he did in fact come back solely for the kids sake 4 years ago. He said maybe he came back for the wrong reasons but not with the wrong intentions.
Screams confusion if ya ask me.
I just don't get it guys.
Replace “guy” with “woman” and I would say ditto. 
Guess it's not for me to get right? Why the H did he try to make me believe for the past 4 years that everything with us was SOOO great?
Ahh…your at that “I need to figure it all out stage”….yeah I have been there before. Guess what…ya can’t figure HIM out. YOU now that is a different story..then again…looking at oneself is so much harder..
And now this...we are right back where we were.
Are you? So are you telling me that you have not grown?
I am so tired of being blamed.
Jennifer, I am about to post on my blog that YOU are the reason for global warming…DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?
So tired. I do not know who this man is...and
Then rest and…get to know who the real Jennifer is…maybe try that for a few weeks.
I swear there has to be someone else and he is denying denying.
Even if there is and I would not suggest that you try and find out…even if there is…does that person make you less attractive, less appealing, less intelligent? Yes, BUT only if YOU never felt this way about yourself to begin with. Jennifer, you need to detach from all of this so that you can find the Jennifer that is better than this, the Jennifer that is strong. I am not saying D his butt..NO…I am saying leave him in God hands and YOU just FOCUS ON YOU for a while.
I am growing to hate this man.
You have to FIRST LOVE something to HATE it. BOTH ARE choices that each of us make. So which will you choose….anger and bitterness OR…love and compassion. Before you answer….consider the following….
”for better or for worse”….
“unconditional”
“compassion”
“peace”
“patiences”
“grace”
OR
“anger”
“pissed off”
“want to kick his f*cking as*”
“hate”
“resentment”
“disappointed”
“un-met expectations”
Which of the above words MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER? Not make your H change…NO …which ones MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER?
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks for the insight Eric.
H called and told me this morning "You deserve better than me" -and proceeded to tell me something the counselor brought up to him at his appt. on Monday - a true story about a guy with a past very similar to my H's - and as H described what the counselor told him he said that he believes the counselor was describing my H to a T - the story goes: Father abandoned the family at a young age and the man's mother wasn't around to be a mom after around age 4 or 5, because she had to work all the time to support the family. He was raised by his grandmother. All this guy wanted his whole life was to be married and be happy - he got married and as soon as the wife did something to disappoint him or did something wrong (in his eyes) he began seeking affirmation from other women outside of the marriage, it was a continous cycle of cheating, he was unable to be helped and it never stopped. (Those were my husband's words to me)
I emailed the Dr. because I wanted to try to understand what was said to my husband. And here is what he said to me:
"Thanks for the email. If I recall the conversation accurately I believe my point is that we all have issues that run very deep. While we may never fully be able to sooth or eliminate the issue we can choose to handle it properly. While a man may have a chronic need to be affirmed it does not mean that he has to go about having that need met in an innapropriate way. It is a choice."
To which I completely agree.
My H texted me and said "he doesn't know what to do"... later, in response to that I just said "allow yourself to be helped. Don't give up on you." to which he replied "I'm trying but I feel like a failure at everything"
Jennifer,
It is post like your that remind me why I believe in my heart God sent me here. Better yet…”dragged me here kicking and screaming”.
Before I respond I suggest that you go read my thread to get a better sense of who I was and who I am today.
Thanks for the insight Eric.
Your welcome BUT don’t thank me…thank all of the people on these boards..
I would like to tell you a little story…..
There was a man, who did not have the love of his mother. This same man never knew his father. This man…
Did not understand what a healthy R was
Did not understand what it was and meant to be a father
This man married and had children – 3 to be exact
He did not understand how to love his wife
He was angry all the time
He was depressed for a long time (and remember depression is anger turned inward)
He depended on HIS wife to provide the love of a mother that he never had
He hid behind his own insecurities, which were the result of his upbringing
He spent most of his adult life spending like a drunken sailor and in his own selfish world
This same man, used woman to satisfy his needs when he was young. Used them sexually, used them emotionally…
When the woman did not satisfy him…he threw himself into work
This man became a successful employee – hell he traveled all over the place
This man kept running…running from him self
This same man, tried to have his WIFE fix him…she tried for 18 years…
His Wife tried and lost herself
His wife tried and in loosing herself…hit a life crisis
This man was broken…
This man did not know any better
THEN……
This man began to look inside…
It was scary…it was painful…
He began to realize that no one, not his wife, not his priest, not his IC – no one BUT him could fix this
This man Jennifer WAS ME.
I say this to you for several reasons…..
My Wife is gone…totally immersed in her crisis…she tried the best she could.
You have better tools at your disposal…
You can do better if you want to…
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY……as much as you want to….YOU CANNOT FIX YOUR H….you can love him…love him from a distance…You can be a light for him
BUT
HE must do the work….
He must come to the realization of what he is and what he must change
He must want it….
You can bring a horse to water BUT you cannot make him drink..
Be that light Jennifer….BUT DO NOT LOOSE YOURSELF….
"You deserve better than me"
This is his guilt…and this is also his cry….please help me…please help…
I believe my point is that we all have issues that run very deep. While we may never fully be able to sooth or eliminate the issue we can choose to handle it properly.
The doctor is spot on….YOUR H IMO, has to get to a place where he realizes that he can change and that those changes will take time. He must realize that acknowledgement of the issue is the first step.
My H texted me and said "he doesn't know what to do"
He is trying Jennifer….at least that is how I see it….just keep reminder yourself..that YOU cannot do this for him.. Cannot!
later, in response to that I just said "allow yourself to be helped. Don't give up on you."
This is all you can do…Jennifer…. He has to do this..YOU cannot be his escape path..If you attempt to rescue him he will not have the opportunity to work on his own chit….and I can tell YOU this…..
My Wife, has no idea of who I have become….none….will she regret it? Maybe, BUT only IF she looks at herself now…only IF she does the work on herself…THEN just maybe…she will see the real and true me. The man that I have become…the MAN that YOUR H can be.
"I'm trying but I feel like a failure at everything"
He is scared and in so much pain…..as hard as it is……remember these words…..
Compassion
Understanding
Faith
Love
Grace
Strength
Jennifer YOU CAN DO THIS……
BUT
STOP looking at YOUR H…..and
Start looking to really become the WOMAN that he just may look at and say….”I have to change….for me….AND….because I love her”…
Be strong Jen…be strong…
Don't quit...don't give up...NOT YET....NOT TODAY!
God Bless,
Eric
Thank you Eric, for sharing that with me. Everything you said to me, I totally agree. One thing though, is that I do believe that H has acknowledged that he has issues. But that's it at this point - he has acknowledged it - has he OWNED it? I don't think so - what he does with the acknowledgement, I know, is up to him.
He texted me this afternoon, "as if things couldn't get any worse...the landlord (for his retail store) came in today and threatened legal action if I don't get caught up with rent." He said to me..."I just can't win...I want to just hide somewhere."
I made lasagna tonight for the kids. They LOVED it. My daughter had a blast helping me. Such a good feeling
Jennifer,
One thing though, is that I do believe that H has acknowledged that he has issues. But that's it at this point - he has acknowledged it - has he OWNED it? I don't think so
What do you need to see to make you believe that he has owned it?
Also, think about this for a sec….
He is ashamed…
He is scared
He is starting to realize that he must fix this.
Do you think that is easy?
I can tell you from experience that it is probably the most painful thing that someone can go through…the acknowledgement of the damage that one has caused.
Personally, I see a lot of LBS’s bypassing the work of looking inside and owning their own role in the demise of a M. Why? Same reason….way to painful.
Guess what when you finally do it…and you finally come to grips with your role and him with his role..well then things can get very interesting.
Then…you are both in a healthy place.
"as if things couldn't get any worse...the landlord (for his retail store) came in today and threatened legal action if I don't get caught up with rent." He said to me..."I just can't win...I want to just hide somewhere."
It all falling apart…
All of the happiness that he thought he could find outside of himself is not there…
The consequences are killing him
So….
What are YOU to do?
Can you be a light and not let him drag you down.
Can you love even when he may not be able to love you back….at least right now
Can you be a friend
Can you carry the torch for the M….just a little longer…
I made lasagna tonight for the kids.
I had a bowl of frosted flakes…..
Just because I like to torture myself….can you PLEASEEEEE tell me you used homemade sauce…please…pretty please….
Keep the focus on you right now Jennifer….
God Bless,
Eric
Eric,
I wish I could torture you some more but I cannot lie...I did NOT make the sauce. I actually love Bertolli's sauces...
And, the night before I made them warm chocolate chip cookie sundaes
I hear everything you are saying...I did it 4 1/2 years ago...I am going to try to do it again.
Gotta get back to work...TTFN!
Have an awesome day!
Jennifer
I am going to try to do it again
IMO - "do" is a much better word than "try"...
If you did it once, ya can do it again.
warm chocolate chip cookie sundaes
Not this ^^^^ is torture!
Eric
Woke up this morning to a text from H that he sent at 1 a.m. - it said "I hate my life. This all *^&%$ sucks"
I replied with "I'm sorry". He called me as I was on my way into work, he was in tears and said "I don't think I'm going to make it hun, I really don't think I'm going to make it" I said "you don't have a choice, you have to make it" and he said "there's always a choice" I said "I know you don't see it right now, but you have so many reasons to make it - our kids need their dad" He said "I'd rather them remember me as I am now than see me as what I am afraid I'm going to become" I said "What are you afraid you are going to become?" He said "Nothing but a bum and a loser" He was in tears the whole time. I asked him what the Dr. said about that stuff, about the fact that he feels like he can't do anything right and that everything he does goes wrong and fails...he said the Dr. said that with my H's history he can understand why he feels that way. He told me he was sorry for everything and that he had to get off the phone b/c a client was coming in shortly. He thanked me for listening to him. I said "you're welcome".
I hate seeing my H in so much pain. Regardless of what has happened and what he has done, it hurts to see/hear the awful pain that it appears he is feeling. I know I can't but I wish I could I fix everything for him. I am really really worried about his mental state.
Jennifer
I am sorry to hear about your H.
I suspect that he is dealing with quite a few demons that right now are torturing his mind.
This is something that HE has to work through. I know you know that you cannot fix him. So what can you do...
Be the light...
Be compassionate...
Be understanding...
Show him what Love is...
As hard as it might be, right now you should not jump in and try to save him.
Your comapssion shows him what is ahead of him.
Be strong!
God Bless,
Eric
Jennifer - I hope your H is okay. scary to hear them talk like that. Stay strong for you and him. My little brother talks like this sometimes and it is terrifing - the depression is so deep. At least he is seeking professional help! I wish my H would.
Eric - what I want to know is HOW IS YOUR WIFE NOT TOTALLY AND COMPELETLY IN LOVE WITH YOU :)he-he! I always read what you write and you are so focused and (what did Jack say the other day?) In touch with your feminine side!
all joking aside - thank you for being consistant with all of us who feel lost and alone. The interesting thing is that as we are the light for our MLC S - our friends on this board are the light for us.
I texted H and said I am so sorry you are in so much pain.
He said "Me too...I have no idea how to get out of this funk..I seriously don't know how I am going to make it"
I replied" You have to try. Our kids would NOT be better off without their dad."
He replied "I know..and all I do anymore is hurt you...I hate myself for it and need to be where I can't hurt you anymore"
I am not sure whether I should reply to that or not. I don't know what to say.
Jennifer -
can I ask? IMO he is talking suicide...what do you think?
TAMF,
Without a doubt, yes he is. He has mentioned it before.
I actually just replied to him and said "Not making it would hurt me"
Jennifer,
None of us are professionals. I would suggest you call a suicide prevention hotline or a doctors office. My sister has some training in dealing with rape and crisis victims and her advice is to immediately take this to the next level.
(((hugs)))
PEI
Jennifer,
Is your H on anti d's?
I would contact his Dr or suggest to your H that he does.
Ya know, this may be against DB principals...but now may be a good time for a good old fashion "I love you". Take this suggestion with a grain of salt.
Keep being the light Jennifer...
I am not sure if you pray or believe in God..if YOU do..
Then now that he has ALL of this under control. Believe it, confess it, feel it and give thanks for it.
I will pray for you H tonight,
Eric
but now may be a good time for a good old fashion "I love you".
I'm no pro ... but I would be careful with anything that might be construed as guilt. Please call a hotline. Sooner rather than later.
PEI
Thank you all for caring enough to offer your advice.
I actually called him, he didn't answer, so I left him a message that said I was worried about him and I gave him the prevention hotline phone number and reiterated that I was worried about him.
He texted me shortly thereafter with "I'm not calling any number...sorry...just don't know what to do"
Jennifer -
Can you call his doctor? You said earlier that you emailed his doctor with a question - I would call him! Like Pei said - sooner rather than later.
I will pray too! So sorry this is happening. You always worry what they will do when they hit rock bottom. Take care - keep us posted if you can.
Jennifer,
Maybe you could call the hotline and ask them if there is anything specific you should/can say or do... they are trained in dealing with people in your H's situation.
(((hugs)))
PEI
Jennifer,
Maybe you could call the hotline and ask them if there is anything specific you should/can say or do... they are trained in dealing with people in your H's situation.
(((hugs)))
PEI
Oh, and yes, I realize this could be seen as trying to "fix" him ... but IMO it's better to see if there's a way to make sure he sticks around to fix himself.
Jennifer,
Please arrange for help for your husband. A couple of ways that you can do this...
1) See if you can get him home (maybe come up with an excuse)
2) Try and keep him on the phone and maybe just discuss somethign light.
I agree with PEI and TAMF, I would contact a support group asap.
God Bless,
Eric
Jennifer
Just checking in...how is YOUR H?
I pray that everything is okay.
Eric
Everything is fine with H. He came and stayed with the kids last night so I could go out and hang with my girlfriends.
Sometimes I wonder if it's all an act to try to get me to feel bad for him.
I just don't see this turning out well based on what he's saying. He just keeps saying he doesn't think he can BE any other way and that I don't deserve that. That he believes this "chronic need for affirmation from other women" is just who HE is. I said "well, you are CHOOSING to be that way then"
Just doesn't look good. I don't even know what I want anymore.
Side note: I noticed that he secretly looked at my cell phone records this morning. He deleted the history on the computer, but he failed to delete the temporary internet files which showed me that he was on verizon. I know that he was looking at my records because he tore off a piece of paper from a note pad that I could see what he wrote because of the imprint on the page below it. He had one of my friends cell phone numbers written down, (one that I was texting with last night) as if he was going to check and see whose number it is. Weird. Whatever.
Jennifer,
I've heard from very wise counsel that our MLCer's do indeed 'watch us'. I know my H does things to indicate that he's keeping track of me somewhat.
Not sure why given what they've done. Don't know if it's control, jealousy, not wanting to give up aspects of their old life, or possibly wanting to find out if we're moving on so as to help relieve their guilt?
Who knows? Anyway, I don't attach any expectations from these things. I just chalk it up to the weirdness that is MLC.
Jennifer,
I caught my H checking my cell 2. Who knows why???
Hey Jennifer
You know me…I’m always good for a story…
Sometimes I wonder if it's all an act to try to get me to feel bad for him.
When I was hooked on drugs and totally fuc*ed up (FTR, that was a long long time ago)…I used guilt for a few reasons….1) secure pity from those that love me and 2) TO HIDE….
Yep, hide the fact that I was doing drugs and hide any other thing I was doing.
I am not saying your H is doing this…BUT….
Sometime we should trust our instincts.
I just don't see this turning out well based on what he's saying. He just keeps saying he doesn't think he can BE any other way and that I don't deserve that. That he believes this "chronic need for affirmation from other women" is just who HE is. I said "well, you are CHOOSING to be that way then"
Here is another story….in May of this year I proclaimed “I was done”. F*ck it.. I was gonna file. Retained a lawyer, and instructed her to draft the complaint. I came home and told my W that she would be severed shortly. She was sooooo happy…she really was. I was totally confused. I started thinking WTF why was she so happy. I got so freaking angry. I was pissed. Here she was happy. We sat down and told our two teenage boys. When we told them…she was in a jovial mood.. she was really happy…almost like a pig in chit. I was pissed.
Then something funny happened about 2 days later….
My anger subsided and I started thinking….
Why was I standing?
Is this what I want?
How would I explain this to my kids?
Did I still love this woman?
Fuc* do I really believe in all of this MLC bullchit?
I came to the conclusion that I did not want the D. I came to the realization based on my W actions just how totally “gone” she was. I knew it was her crisis. So I decided not to file. I call my L and said please hold off.
I was happy…I had made a decision for ME. I had stood for my M. I knew that I could look at my kids at the end of the day and say that daddy did not end this – daddy it gave it his all and then some. Daddy stood NOT for HER….but for HIM…I stood for ME.
I came hold and told my W that I had decided NOT to file. She was PISSED. Was so unhappy. You should have seen the look on her face. I actually went outside and smiled (I have to be honest and say I did feel a little revengeful joy – kinda like “f you back”). Do you know what I realized….
I just made her OWN her decision. I made her responsible and she did not like it one bit. Ya see an MLCer will usually push the LBSer to file. This way they can blame you.
So…IMO, your H is cycling and maybe a little pissed off that YOU are not making this easy for HIM. You are forcing him to face this chit. AND Jennifer…I know…you are forcing him to look at it BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM….and that…sista…is LOVE.
Just doesn't look good. I don't even know what I want anymore
Then sit still and do nothing…..OR
Maybe YOU do know BUT are afraid to live it. Maybe you really want to stand. You do not have to rush into anything right now.
Regarding the phone thang….
Who the hell know and really who the hell cares.
Did I forget to mention that I think your H is in a crisis…read the resources and you will see that part of the crisis is confusion.
Now get back to backing some cookies will ya…
God Bless,
Eric
I came to the conclusion that I did not want the D. I came to the realization based on my W actions just how totally “gone” she was. I knew it was her crisis. So I decided not to file. I call my L and said please hold off.
I was happy…I had made a decision for ME. I had stood for my M. I knew that I could look at my kids at the end of the day and say that daddy did not end this – daddy it gave it his all and then some. Daddy stood NOT for HER….but for HIM…I stood for ME.
I came hold and told my W that I had decided NOT to file. She was PISSED. Was so unhappy. You should have seen the look on her face. I actually went outside and smiled (I have to be honest and say I did feel a little revengeful joy – kinda like “f you back”). Do you know what I realized….
I just made her OWN her decision. I made her responsible and she did not like it one bit. Ya see an MLCer will usually push the LBSer to file. This way they can blame you.
Eric
Love this story Eric!!!
My wife would have been thrilled if I had been the one to file!!
Who says we have no control over this.
This is one of the reasons why it is wayyyy better to be the LBS.
It is hard to see that at first. It makes more sense now.
W
This is one of the reasons why it is wayyyy better to be the LBS.
It is hard to see that at first. It makes more sense now.
W
Totally WAY better to be the LBS. I don't envy my H in any way shape or form right now. I see what he is struggling with and going through and I'd much rather deal with my stuff than what he has to deal with in his head!
Had a good day yesterday
The kids and I went to the mall for some birthday present shopping (I have 3 birthdays to get gifts for in the next week) Then I took them to the park for awhile.
Weird...I have nothing to say about H.
H called this a.m. to talk to the kids and then started crying because he feels they don't really care to talk him and don't say much on the phone. I guess he is expecting them to say they miss him and such. I don't know. They are 8 1/2 and 5 years old, they don't say much on the phone in general. I told him I understand that he feels hurt. He asked why I wasn't saying anything and I said because I don't really know what to say.
Work was busy today which is great!
H texted me this afternoon and said "where do we go from here..I am lost..and haven't got a clue...I picked up a couple pumpkins for the kids..."
(Him and his ... through all his texts, it's gotten so annoying! He never used to do that.)
I replied and said "I don't know what to say. You are saying that you cannot change. I can't help you decide what you want for your life". No response and no call tonight from him for the kids.
I don't know what I am feeling right now. Kind of feels like acceptance of everything. I'm not mad. I'm not upset. I'm not sad.
Jennifer
I don't know what I am feeling right now. Kind of feels like acceptance of everything. I'm not mad. I'm not upset. I'm not sad.
I would suggest trying to "feel" happy. It is good that you are not sad, not angry, not mad.
How is your H BTW? Does the crisis appear over yet?
Eric
Thanks for checking on me Eric. You know, alot of the time lately I do feel happy. I think that is why I am confused at my feelings right now - other than that, I'm not really feeling anything at all towards H. I'm letting him go.
I don't think the crisis is anywhere close to being over. He hasn't expressed anything or said much at all to me the past few days. He seems very distant and out there. I'm used to hearing him be depressed all of the time so I am not sure what's going on in his head. The last thing he said about the sitch is on Monday when he asked "where do we go from here. I am lost and don't have a clue. I picked up pumpkins for the kids" (See my post above for my response)
*shrugging my shoulders*
Jennifer,
so I am not sure what's going on in his head.
He probably does not know either.
H called this a.m. to talk to the kids and then started crying because he feels they don't really care to talk him and don't say much on the phone
Sounds like guilt and deep depression to me.
Jennifer, I hope that one of the MLC vets could chime in on your thread.
IMO, I think you are doing exactly what you need to do. You cannot fix him BUT you are trying to be as supportive as you can be.
Continue to be strong for YOUR kids.
Continue to live your life.
Maybe...just maybe...he will come out of this.
Love Jennifer CAN conquer all.
YOU are not sure of what your feeling...that's okay.
Question should be...
Why are you standing and WHO are you standing for.
What are your core values?
What are your views on committment.
I can see your strength Jennifer....
No one said this was easy...
Just remember...
How you live YOUR life is YOUR Choice....
Me - I love my W. I will wait for her....Until...
I decide I no longer will.
Lastly, IMO, right now YOU do not have to choose anything...
You can just live and LOVE.
God Bless,
Eric
Jennifer, I hope that one of the MLC vets could chime in on your thread.
Me too!
Thanks for making me smile Eric. I do believe I am doing the right thing, the way I am handling all of this. I know I am a strong person - I've been through alot in my life and always make it through - a better, wiser, more insightful person.
But dang...can't I have a little bit of a break? lol! Does something always have to go wrong?
I asked myself your question - WHO am I standing for? And at this moment, I don't even feel like I am standing so-to-speak. I honestly don't know what I am doing other than continuing on with my life, remaining the rock and the constant for my children.
My eyes have opened up to alot of things. I look around our home and I can't tell you how many projects or things that were started that are not 100% complete. It seems that it's a normal thing for my H and I am realizing that I can't stand it! He doesn't finish ANYTHING to completion. You would think it's insane if I wrote the list - there is so much SH%T unfinished EVERYWHERE in this house. It's crazy! And with how much he is into his MMA, I am so much more aware looking around the house now, taking notice of how many books upon books, upon equipment, stuff upon stuff upon stuff that my H has bought over the past 2 years and it's all just sitting there. He still practices 4-5 times a week, but he doesn't use any of this STUFF. He has so much STUFF.
So I began relating that to our relationship. He is unable to finish anything to completion in his life, including his marriage! Not that a marriage can be completed, but I think you know what I mean. He got to 90% and decided to bail. Just like all of the other STUFF.
So, the other day, one of the things that was never completed, I took care of myself. I said to myself "why do we not have knobs and handles on our cabinets and drawers in our 2 year old kitchen island?" Because H said he had to measure the depth of the drawers for the right screws...and he NEVER did. So I went out to Lowes and bought the damn knobs and handles myself! I put the knobs on the cabinets but I do have to go back to Lowes to get longer screws for the drawer handles. Like seriously, how difficult was that to complete? Not difficult at all. In fact, super easy! I am going to start making my way around the house and I am going to finish what I can!
That turned into a long rant...thanks for listening/reading if you got this far!
Night night
Jennifer
I do believe I am doing the right thing, the way I am handling all of this.
As long as YOU do that really is all that matters.
WHO am I standing for? And at this moment, I don't even feel like I am standing so-to-speak. I honestly don't know what I am doing other than continuing on with my life, remaining the rock and the constant for my children.
Honestly, IMO this ^^^^ is the right STAND. You are standing for YOU and YOUR children and YOU are giving YOUR H the time and space he needs.
He doesn't finish ANYTHING to completion
Actions and behaviors in the past ARE not always indicative of actions and behaviors of someone in the future.
So I went out to Lowes and bought the damn knobs and handles myself!
DO you do drywall? LOL....seriously, this is another good step FOR YOU. Take charge over your life and YOUR house. Do what you can and expect nothing from him.
Jennifer, keep doing what you are doing. Be that strong MOM that the kids need BUT also...remember to take some time for YOU.
Do something for you Jennifer...nails, pedi, workout, go out with friends...something. If you do not you will begin to resent YOUR H, which is not good for YOU or HIM.
God Bless,
Eric
Jennifer, keep doing what you are doing. Be that strong MOM that the kids need BUT also...remember to take some time for YOU.
Do something for you Jennifer...nails, pedi, workout, go out with friends...something. If you do not you will begin to resent YOUR H, which is not good for YOU or HIM.
I know this and I agree, which is one of the reasons why I am continuing to make plans with my friends and have my calendar booked up the next 2 weekends. (And H is staying with the kids both times) And I am due for a pedicure soon
I am continuing to make plans with my friends and have my calendar booked up the next 2 weekends.
Atta girl! You go GAL your butt off. Ya deserve it!
Have a great weekend.
God Bless,
Eric
In need of some major support right now. H was at the house this afternoon b/c he picked up DS8 from school. He started bawling his eyes out and said he doesn't know who he is and that he needs to find himself. He told me for sure now that he came back 4 years ago and shouldn't have, that he told himself if he thought positive, and spoke positive (in other words, lie to me this whole time) it would all work out and he would be happy, we would be happy. He is not happy (which I already know)and that he believes that all these years together (12) he tried to be a man that he is not capable of being and thus the reason for his depression. That he tried to be what I wanted and lost himself in the process. He said we need to sit down and talk about the divorce, etc... That he isn't blaming me, but yet he is still indirectly blaming me. He said he feels nothing for me other than he loving me as the mother of his children. He said I'm 41 years old and I have NOTHING. I don't even know how to be a good dad.
I've been in tears most of the night tonight.
Jennifer
Your H is hurting big time right now. To be honest with you I am not sure if what is going in with him is not more than just depression. He may need serious help. I say this not to upset you but because you need to start looking to get him help.
In terms of him finding himself, Jennifer you need to LET HIM GO. You can validate how he feels and as much as this hurts YOU need to the rock for your kids. I am not saying don't cry. No. Cry your eyes out just don't do it in front of the kids.
Look Jennifer as hard as this is you need to keep reminding yourself that this is his issue. Nothing you do can fix him.
Just love him and be as supportive as you can. As for the D convo I suggest that you tell him that the two of you can talk about it later.
My prayers are with you.
Eric
((((Jennifer))))
This is classic MLC talk. Especially the "I blame you but it's all me" part. There's nothing you can do other than validate his feelings (he truly feels this way), and work on detachment. It's not easy but this is probably going to take awhile and you need to find a way to not let his future mood swings affect YOU. Work on YOU. This isn't going to help the pain your feeling right now. There's nothing to do about that other than feel it, accept it, and move on. You did not cause this. But you can grown from this. ((((Jennifer))))
Thank you friends. I know I need to detach it just hurts so bad to hear him confirm things I have been thinking.
I AM letting him go. I'm not the one who brings up R talk and feelings. He is.
Eric, He doesn't want help. I've tried and that's when he acts like "oh, I just don't know what to do, I'm not calling any prevention hotline" I mean it seems he cries wolf and then when I call his bluff, it's not that big of a deal that I need to call the suicide prevention hotline? So, what exactly do you mean by get him help?
His mental state worries me. Alot. He told me that the counselor asked him if he thought today that he's just trying to let me go so that I find happiness with someone else? And my H said, yes, maybe I am.
Jennifer, I am so sorry that you are going through this.
I am not an expert and I dont know your h but he sound like he is still going through his crisis.
Hard as it is going to be right now, it is very important that you take care of yourself and your kids.
Your h is going to have to find his way.
And you are going to have to find your strength.
You have to follow your own path to peace. That begins with realizing that you need he has to walk this journey in his own way and you need to let him.
So, have a good cry. Then, remember that you will get through this.
Focus on you and your children. Take it one step at a time.
No one knows what the future holds.
You can do this.
Jennifer
First things first....
Do you feel safe in the house with him? Are you concerned about the safety of your kids? If so, then honestly I would leave or ask him to leave immediately.
If saftey is not your concern and you really are just wondering what the hell is going on in his head...well then I think we need to look at this a few different ways.
1- he faking this chit and trying to manipulate you into agreeing with the divorce. If this is the case I really think you only have two options. One - validate as best you can OR two take a step back and ask yourself if this is something that you really want to live with. Remember standing is a choice YOU make.
2 - if you feel that he really is that depressed I think you need to call his doctor asap. Just remember Jennifer - no one can help him except HIM. You can't make him see something that he does not want to see.
Jennifer - I feel for ya. Just know that you are going to be okay regardless of what happens.
How is your H right now?
Eric
Jennifer, I'm sorry. I didnt read back on your thread.
A couple of things - if you think your h is going to harm himself - call his doctor.
I know how hard it is to watch someone you love so depressed.
But, as long as you are not afraid of him doing anything to you or the kids or himself, you are going to have to let him get the help he needs on his own. You cant force him.
Just let him know that you are there for him if he needs you.
Does he have a family member that he can go to?
Do you have support?
Try your best to remain calm. Rest. Eat. Sleep.
And take care of yourself. You are going to need a lot of strength in the coming weeks.
You will be ok.
In need of some major support right now. H was at the house this afternoon b/c he picked up DS8 from school. He started bawling his eyes out and said he doesn't know who he is and that he needs to find himself. He told me for sure now that he came back 4 years ago and shouldn't have, that he told himself if he thought positive, and spoke positive (in other words, lie to me this whole time) it would all work out and he would be happy, we would be happy. He is not happy (which I already know)and that he believes that all these years together (12) he tried to be a man that he is not capable of being and thus the reason for his depression. That he tried to be what I wanted and lost himself in the process. He said we need to sit down and talk about the divorce, etc... That he isn't blaming me, but yet he is still indirectly blaming me. He said he feels nothing for me other than he loving me as the mother of his children. He said I'm 41 years old and I have NOTHING. I don't even know how to be a good dad.
I've been in tears most of the night tonight.
This whole thing sounds soooo familiar to me it's freaky. Sweetie, you need to focus on detaching, which you already know. It might help to go back and read some of my earlier stuff ... it hurts like hell, but unfortunately everyone on here has been here, or in a very similar place. Take comfort in knowing you are not alone.
If you haven't called a suicide prevention line, I would. Ask them if there are any questions you should be asking him directly when he seems to be that low. My sister has some crisis counselling training and they've been taught that people who are serious actually plan and have ways and means, and they won't lie or hide it when asked direct questions. For your own peace of mind you might want to know if there are true signals or if it's likely he's crying wolf. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS none of it is your fault. His MLC, his depression, his leaving or staying, his potential to hurt himself ... none of it has anything to do with you.
(((Jennifer)))
PEI
Jennifer
First things first....
Do you feel safe in the house with him? Are you concerned about the safety of your kids? If so, then honestly I would leave or ask him to leave immediately.
I feel safe when he's at the house. He isn't here much. Maybe a few hours a week, if that. I'm not concerned about the safety of the kids.
1- he faking this chit and trying to manipulate you into agreeing with the divorce. If this is the case I really think you only have two options. One - validate as best you can OR two take a step back and ask yourself if this is something that you really want to live with. Remember standing is a choice YOU make.
Seriously? Tell him no, I don't want to discuss the divorce? When it's clearly what he believes he wants?
2 - if you feel that he really is that depressed I think you need to call his doctor asap. Just remember Jennifer - no one can help him except HIM. You can't make him see something that he does not want to see.
I know I can't help him, I do know this.
Not sure since he doesn't live here. He texted me right after he left tonight saying I'm not blaming you...and something else I forget because I deleted it. Then my son tells me that daddy said "I love mommy, I am just not in love with her and that we won't be together anymore" I texted him and said thanks for letting me know you talked with S8 and told him you're not in love with me" He replies and says that our son is ridiculously smart and that our son is the one that said that. BULLLLLLLLL SH&&&&T! I'm not doing this to my kids. I'm not going back and saying well daddy said YOU said that, not him. WTF is wrong with this man? There is no way my son understands the difference of loving someone and being "in love" with someone for him to point that out to my H. He is warped!
Jennifer,
I pray that you are feeling better today.
Seriously? Tell him no, I don't want to discuss the divorce? When it's clearly what he believes he wants?
Jennifer – yes I am serious! Do you want to talk about D? Do YOU want a D? If not, then why do YOU have to talk about it? Ultimately, if this is something that HE wants he will move forward with it. You should feel free to talk about it when YOU feel ready to NOT when HE wants YOU to.
Jennifer, IMO, you need to sit down and figure out what it is that you really want for YOU and YOUR kids. What YOUR H wants should not play into YOUR thought process.
Your H is not happy and NOTHING YOU do will change that for him – RIGHT NOW. So maybe it is time for Jennifer to sit down and start really focusing on HER happiness and let H spin in the wind. Your H is on an ugly rollercoaster and I suggest that you not get on that ride.
Be happy Jennifer. Make a life for you and your kids. If your H wants to join well then great…either way…you and kids should be happy.
Maybe it is about time that YOU really limit your contact with H.
Stop responding to text
Stop answering every call he places to you
Just let him GO
God Bless,
Eric
Hi Jennifer,
Caught up with your thread.
I believe it's time for you to stop all contact with your husband for a period of time; you've done all you can do to stand, so you may continue to stand; as long as you choose to, but you'll need to detach totally from your husband and go NC to allow him to figure himself out.
Don't have a clue how long that might take; but remember, if you choose to, you can end this at any time.
In regards to a divorce, if he wants one; he'll have to do all the heavy lifting to get it done, but you don't have to talk about it or help him accomplish this.
Simply let him go, as Eric has suggested. When someone gets what they think they want, it usually turns out to not be what they wanted at all.
Your husband is very confused; and it not certain of what he wants, yet he comes back to you. As long as you engage with him, he will keep evading his issues. When you let him go, however; and move forward with your life; it may be the act of letting go will be what brings him forward, too.
He still loves you, has deep feelings for you, or he wouldn't continue to come back to you.
He wants you to do it for him, and that cannot be; he must do for himself. The very fact he keeps contacting you, and you keep answering him keeps him stuck..as you are "distracting" him from what he needs to do.
This is NOT your fault, but you must break this line of contact with him; he's not going to.
That is why I'm suggesting NC; detaching, and getting on with your life...all the while keeping a door ajar.
You've got time to do this, and see what happens.
I don't know how this will come out, but I do know things cannot continue as they have been; he is cycling worse; and you're getting more tired as time goes on.
Don't let this destroy what you feel for him; to preserve what feeling you do have left, you must DETACH completely from his drama.
If he decides to go on, you've not lost anything; understand that.
You don't want him the way he is now; and you don't have to deal with him in the shape he's in now, unless you just want to.
You call the shots here, not him.
He did this to himself; placing you into a situation that was not of your own making; put you on a path not of your own making.
He started this, you did not; and there may come a point when you may have to put it to him in this way.
The burden is on him to do what's considered right, not you.
LET HIM GO
Keep us posted.
Much love to you,
HB
ERic and HB,
I get it, I really do. However, the NC is a difficult thing to accomplish when kids and finances are involved.
1) He calls to talk to the kids, I answer the phone and give it right to them. Then they give it back to me. Usually he only talks for a few moments.
2) He picks up the kids from school, a few times a week right now, so that is when I have been seeing him in person and those are the times that he breaks down crying and saying all the stuff I've previously posted.
3) I have to communicate with him regarding financial stuff. When we need money in the account, etc...
4) I let him stay with the kids on weekend nights that I have plans with friends. I offer this to him, before contacting a babysitter because it gives him an opportunity to be with his children and vice versa as opposed to me having to pay for a sitter.
Do you think I should not even give him the option and just call a sitter from now on? If I do that, I suppose I fear he will flip out and accuse me of not letting him see his children. (He did that the first time we were separated - because I used to just have my mom watch the kids)
I agree with NC but I just don't see how I can effectively pull that off.
Side note: I called out of work today, stayed home and slept for the most part because I barely got any sleep last night and felt a cold coming on. He picked up the kids from school and brought them home. They came running upstairs and jumped on my bed hugging and kissing me. He stood there watching and tears filled his eyes as he said "I wish someone loved me the way those kids love you" I looked at him and said "someone did" He left shortly thereafter and me and the kids went to Target to get the doggies some food.
I have a bunch of stuff I need to put up on eBay. Maybe tomorrow night.
Tomorrow is a new day
Jennifer,
Yes NC is very hard to do when you have kids. So instead of thinking of it as “NC” or “Dark” – think of it as “true detachment with an attempt to limit any interaction”.
I answer the phone and give it right to them.
Can you pick up a caller ID system and once you see it is him have one of the kids pick up the phone. When and IF he asks for you, make sure that you are in the bathroom or something like that. If he insist on speaking with you – keep the conversation focused on the kids. Anything else that is brought up could be responded with a “I really do not want to talk right now”.
He picks up the kids from school, a few times a week right now, so that is when I have been seeing him in person
Is their anyway that you can make yourself scarce when he drops them off. Another option could be to have him drop them off at your family’s house and then you can pick them up later.
those are the times that he breaks down crying and saying all the stuff I've previously posted.
I think you need to explain to him that this type of behavior is NOT good for the kids to see and/or hear. If he starts up again, I really think you need to stand your ground, show support to some extent “you should really talk to your counselor” and then leave the room that he is in. Now, please I am not saying that you need to be very cool and distant – no – I am simply saying that YOU need to distance yourself from his wild behavior. He needs time to sort through this stuff and YOU cannot help.
I have to communicate with him regarding financial stuff. When we need money in the account, etc..
Come up with a monthly budget. Factor in incidental stuff like haircuts, etc and also the big ticket household expenses. Whatever the monthly number is, share it with him and ask that he deposit the money into the joint account. Another option is to have HIM pay the bills and only provide you with the money you need to support the kids. In the event that you cannot reach some sort of monthly number, then your contact should be via text. If he calls, don’t answer and just text him back.
I let him stay with the kids on weekend nights that I have plans with friends. I offer this to him, before contacting a babysitter because it gives him an opportunity to be with his children and vice versa as opposed to me having to pay for a sitter.
As a man that has had to fight to try and get ½ time with his kids…my first comment is it is his right to have his kids overnight. Having said this, his R with his kids is really something that he will need to work at. Based on my own personal sitch it is NOT easy – BUT this is not your problem. You may want to come up with a set schedule for a few reasons 1) get the kids into a set schedule and 2) allows both him and YOU to plan. In terms of limiting contact…you can use the family or friends as a drop off and pick up spot as well.
Do you think I should not even give him the option and just call a sitter from now on?
Jennifer, I cannot tell you what to do and even the above comments are just suggestions. Having said this, I think you should continue to give him the opportunity to see his kids and if that means to baby sit well then he should be given the right to refuse it. I suggest the parenting plan that I mentioned earlier.
If I do that, I suppose I fear he will flip out and accuse me of not letting him see his children.
Think about this for a sec…DO you think anything YOU do right now will change how he interacts with you? Probably not, so you need to make this about YOU and the kids. Do what feels right in your heart.
I have a bunch of stuff I need to put up on eBay
Lemme know what it is…I need a ton of stuff.
Jennifer, you can do this. You just need to start thinking creatively. I also want to say as someone who was totally cut off, that IF you feel that you still want this M. Leave that door open. Take a peek every know and then and see how he is coming along. If he wants the D, let him drive the process. For now, keep your emotional well being and that of YOUR kids YOUR TOP priority.
God Bless,
Eric
I get it, I know what I have to do. However, our situation is unique in that, he doesn't have a "place" to live. He is sleeping at his retail store. So that leaves us with very few options at this point as far as the kids are concerned. It's not like he can pick them up and take them there, kwim? It's not a home obviously. Secondly, I don't have family other than my aunt and uncle. So the option to have him drop off at my family's isn't any good either. When he comes to the house to hang out with them on a night that go out, that's the only option there is. He either stays there and watches them or it doesn't happen. He can't take them anywhere.
I'm just saying that I have very limited options when it comes to NC. And I pretty much have been following that when/if we talk on the phone. He always calls my cell to talk to the kids and from now on I will just hand the phone to them, if possible.
And I usually do only communicate via text regarding financials. I'm not a chaser, I'm not one of those that will irritate the crap out of my husband because I call him all the time. I leave him alone. When we separated the first time, I did just that...left him alone.
As for eBay Eric, mostly kids clothes and shoes - lol!
Jennifer,
However, our situation is unique in that, he doesn't have a "place" to live. He is sleeping at his retail store.
Yes that is pretty unique. What is HE is doing about it? Can anything be done? Is this strictly due to finances?
So that leaves us with very few options at this point as far as the kids are concerned. It's not like he can pick them up and take them there, kwim?
I get what you mean. Your H will need to figure out how to provide some type of home for him and his kids.
This is where it get really interesting, he says he wants a D yet he probably cannot afford it. Jen, I am at a loss for words here. You really do have the patience of a saint and I believe YOU need to do what YOU think is right.
Secondly, I don't have family other than my aunt and uncle.
Depending on how much I will have to pay in Alimony I will be available for baby sitting at 75 bucks an hour - just kidding…trying to inject a little humor here.
When he comes to the house to hang out with them on a night that go out, that's the only option there is.
Well at least your going out – you see there is always a silver lining
And I usually do only communicate via text regarding financials.
I still suggest coming up with a monthly budget and asking for it once a month or better yet have him deposit it. It seems that he is self employed so he probably is juggling his cash flow, which no doubt changes from week to week so I can imagine this is tough.
[quote]I'm not a chaser, I'm not one of those that will irritate the crap out of my husband because I call him all the time. I leave him alone.
I never said you were a chaser and if I gave you that impression I am sorry.
As for eBay Eric, mostly kids clothes and shoes - lol!
Okay let me know if you plan to see things like…..sofa’s, completely furnished homes, cars, electronics, etc ROTFLMAO.
Jen –What happen with seeing a therapist together?
Look this stuff is hard and honestly I think you are doing the best you can.
(((hugs)))
You can do this.
Yes that is pretty unique. What is HE is doing about it? Can anything be done? Is this strictly due to finances?
I am not sure if he is doing anything about it - I believe this is what he wants to discuss (what there is to discuss I am not sure) when he says we need to sit down and talk about "Stuff". Yes, strictly due to finances. See, we have what we need to live but don't have extra, so to speak. I know, HE needs to figure something out.
Well at least your going out – you see there is always a silver lining
I know, that's not going to stop either! I cherish my ME time. Honestly can't wait to have some drinks this weekend.
I still suggest coming up with a monthly budget and asking for it once a month or better yet have him deposit it. It seems that he is self employed so he probably is juggling his cash flow, which no doubt changes from week to week so I can imagine this is tough.
Yes, very tough indeed.
I never said you were a chaser and if I gave you that impression I am sorry.
No I didn't think that you implied that in any way whatsoever...I was just reiterating the fact. And it's one of the things about myself that I am proud of and seems to come easily to me.
Jen –What happen with seeing a therapist together?
I can't even get in to see the guy by myself, he's totally booked. I am waiting for an opening with him.
Jennifer
I believe this is what he wants to discuss (what there is to discuss I am not sure) when he says we need to sit down and talk about "Stuff".
Do you think you can listen to him discuss “stuff” and no overreact? Can you listen to him say I want a D but not respond or say…”I’m sorry you feel that way”?
Yes, strictly due to finances
Have you figured out what you would need to maintain you and the kids? I believe that you work currently – is your income enough to maintain your current standard of living?
See, we have what we need to live but don't have extra, so to speak. I know, HE needs to figure something out.
Bingo – he wanted this – he needs to figure it out.
I can't even get in to see the guy by myself, he's totally booked. I am waiting for an opening with him.
Can you try another therapist?
God Bless,
Eric
Do you think you can listen to him discuss “stuff” and no overreact? Can you listen to him say I want a D but not respond or say…”I’m sorry you feel that way”?
Sure. I can definitely try my best.
Have you figured out what you would need to maintain you and the kids? I believe that you work currently – is your income enough to maintain your current standard of living?
Me and the kids and (2) dogs...including the mortgage, car payment, etc... alot. No way Jose, my income is not nearly enough. The biggest advantage to me working is health benefits. Without them, because he owns a business we'd be paying $1,300 a month for the four of us. With me working (Thank God) we only pay around $400 a month. I'm not sure what we need to do at this point. Lose our pants on selling the house with the market the way it is. I don't know - but these are things we need to discuss.
Can you try another therapist?
I could, but I really, really, really want to see the guy that has been working with my H for the past 4 weeks. I think it would help ME alot to talk to someone who knows who I am referring to when I talk about our situation. So, I will wait until I can get into see him.
H texts me this morning "Good morning...what's our family Dr. #...I'm all f'd up"
I wanted to reply with "My friend google knows" but didn't.
Jennifer,
It seems like you have everything under control.
Seems like you have your head screwed on so let me ask you this...
What do you expect to get out of the meeting with the therapist?
That's a good question Eric. No matter what, it can't hurt for me to talk to him.
Weekend was pretty good. Went out Friday night with friends, H stayed with the kids that night, he and I got into stuff after I got home - I was a little buzzed so I was more emotional than usual. It sucked to be honest. Ya know, listening to him say the same stuff over and over.
Saturday was busy all day and then took the kids on a Haunted Hayride - it was SO fun! They loved it! Had a kids birthday party to attend on Sunday and then a friend of mine stopped over for a little bit Sunday eve.
Then I get this text from H at 10:00 this morning...
"Why does it seem to me that you are doing everything you can to prove that you are a better parent than me…if I was home you wouldn’t be doing most of the things you are doing with the kids..and on top of that you will purposely put the kids to bed with no care at all as to whether they talked to me or not…"
(I know it's HIS guilt and HIS insecurities talking because it honestly didn't make any sense when I thought about it. Like seriously, he thinks I should sit in the house and do nothing with the kids?)
I replied about 2 hours later with "Sorry that's the way you feel. I am not competing nor am I going to defend myself. They go to bed at 9. Call earlier if you would like. Nothing's being done on purpose."
Jennifer,
You are spot on with your comments on this being his "guilt".
Your response was spot on IMO.
Oh...a "little buzzed" or "pretty damn buzzed"? The later should be the response LOL.
Have a good week.
Eric
He admitted to me tonight that he is seeing someone. He said that has nothing to do with anything.
I'm so sick to my stomach. I've been crying most of the night. I just can't do this anymore with him. He said it so nonchalantly...so cold hearted...
I ask myself why do I still love this man? Why do I continue to let him hurt me over and over and over.
I shouldn't be surprised that he's seeing someone. It doesn't make it hurt any less. Heck, he's been having EAs with numerous women over the past 4 years...that I know of...maybe longer.
I swear this hurts more than it did 5 years ago. Now he just keeps asking me via text ...what do you want in divorce?
I don't respond to that. I'd be nuts to put anything in text format. So stupid.
I told him I want my cell phone (currently under his plan) transferred to my own account because I am tired of him going through my cell phone records and spying on me. At least let me have some privacy. He has all the privacy in the world right now. It's like he wants to try catch me doing something wrong so he has an ounce of justification for all the wrong he is doing.
I want him out of my life, but that's not possible because he's the father of my children.
Is this the type of person worth standing for? Is a person who doesn't want to be helped worth standing for? I don't think so anymore. I don't want to be hurt anymore.
Jennifer -
I am so sorry about your situation! This person is not the person you married. Take a step back. Be an awesome mother! Live the life you are given!
IB
Jennifer
Breath....just breath...
I am so sorry. I know first hand just how much this hurts. It hurts like hell. It is the mother of all betrayals AND when you first find out....you feel like ya wanna die. You feel like this is it..this is the last straw. Fu*k this - I'm otta here.
The emotions that you are feeling right now are normal. Feel them. Cry, scream, punch a pillow do what you need to do to let them out.
Is this the type of person worth standing for?
Is he? Right now I'd say hell fuc*ing NO. BUT later...who knows? I am not telling you to stand or not to stand. I am only saying to step back and calm down.
You do not have to decide anything today or tomorrow. Is a person who doesn't want to be helped worth standing for?
Maybe he is worth it. I don't honestly know. What I do know is that YOU matter. That your feelings are valid and that right now he is totally fuc*ed up in the head.
I don't want to be hurt anymore.
IF you think standing = hurt, then no he is not worth standing for. You need to protect yourself. Protect yourself emotionally, financially and physically. You know how you do that? You really detach. and I mean really detach. You let his as* go and start the healing process.
As you are healing and growing you can decide what you want to do. BUT you want to do this from a place of true peace. Not from a place of anger and hurt. You deserve better than to make a rush decision when you are hurt.
Your H is having a major crisis - this is NOT YOUR fault.
Jennifer, you are not alone.
Keep posting...write what you feel.
My suggestion for you is this...
Cry today, write today - do not reply to him AT ALL.
Do not reply to him tomorrow. Do not answer your phone.
Just breath and feel this...
(((((((((Jennifer))))))))
Eric
Jennifer...you can do this.
You've done it and have been doing it.
Not to steal from Christopher Robin to Pooh Bear but you are stronger than you think:)
Jennifer,
Just checking in...how are you? Are you okay?
Eric
Hi there,
Thanks for checking on me. You're the best! I am doing okay. Trying real hard to focus on my job today.
H sent me a text this a.m that said "I didn't want this for my life...you spent years treating me a certain way because of what others had done to you...yet when I can't get the bad out of my head I'm a bastard piece of sh&%."
I only responded with "I apologize for reacting the way I did out of hurt and anger last night."
He texted back "I truly don't know where to go from here..."
I didn't respond to that. I don't have a response for that.
Jennifer
Thanks for checking on me.
Your welcome.
Trying real hard to focus on my job today.
Good
H sent me a text this a.m that said "I didn't want this for my life...you spent years treating me a certain way because of what others had done to you...yet when I can't get the bad out of my head I'm a bastard piece of sh&%."
Just wondering but what did H mean when he said what others had done to you?
ed back "I truly don't know where to go from here..."
I didn't respond to that. I don't have a response for that.
No need to respond. You can't fix this for him.
So what are your next steps?
What is Jennifer going to do next? I know we have discussed trying to figure out a budget, etc. What really are your plans?
Eric
Just wondering but what did H mean when he said what others had done to you?
He is referring to my first husband (I was very young, married him at 21, he was 31) he cheated on me and left me. And I ended up with trust and insecurity issues that I carried with me.
So what are your next steps?
What is Jennifer going to do next? I know we have discussed trying to figure out a budget, etc. What really are your plans?
Today, I don't know what my next steps are. I am trying to put the focus back on my life with the kids and step away from his drama. I need to concentrate on my job - God knows I need to keep it! I'm not in the mindset to think of a budget. H just gives me what we need in the account, when we need it. I pay all the bills Nothing is routine because of the business and because the business is not doing well.
I'm going out this weekend, in costume
Heading out to some bars with girlfriends. Looking forward to that - then spending Halloween day with the kiddies.
Keeping the chin up!
H stayed with the kids last night while I went out to a couple of parties and then to a few bars with girlfriends.
This morning before he left he came up and asked me where all my diamond jewelry is. I asked why was he looking through my jewelry and he said he was looking for his bracelet (that I got him as a wedding gift). He first accused me of selling it all to get money. And I told him the truth which is that my Aunt suggested she keep all my valuable stuff, for my protection. He got PISSED! I didn't react at all. (Actually I couldn't muster up much emotion due to being dead tired from coming in at 3:30 a.m) and it was 7:30 when he confronted me on this.
He said I was just thinking that you sold it all and yet you keep asking me for money for the checking account, acting like I'm some kind of money pit, like you always have. I've never treated him like a money pit. I just don't know where they pull these ridiculous thoughts from.
His thinking is sooo warped. Does he not realize that although he doesn't live here, the bills have not gone away?
I'm so concerned he is going to make things really ugly for me.
Jennifer,
I may be a bit bias with this post and so If I am just realize that I am looking at this from the "male" or "bread winner" perspective.
First, YOU "go girl" for hanging out last night - lord knows you needed it.
As for the jewelery, the reality is that he feels like he is getting the short end of the stick. The jewelery represents an asset for YOU and he probably has no assets and if I recall no place to go. Here is where I may divert from traditional DBing tactics.
I think kindness is warranted here. Yes the bills have not gone away BUT the reality is that IF you do not reconcile EVERYONE's life will change. His, yours the kids, everyones.
In sitch's like yours...where the incoming income is enough to support ONE household (I think that is the case for you and FTR, it is the case with me as well) it comes down to...who will do what it "right".
As hard as it may be to look at your H and make him want to "pay" for his mistakes...you must ask yourself is this the person that Jennifer wants to be. I am not saying that you are being vindictive. I guess my point is try to look at how your H may view things. Yes, he is an as*hole and put himself in this position and YES you must protect yourself. BUT try and consider how he may be feeling. Compassion sweetie.
He said I was just thinking that you sold it all and yet you keep asking me for money for the checking account, acting like I'm some kind of money pit, like you always have.
This is how he feels - most bread winners will feel this way. You cannot take it personal. All you can do is try and understand his POV.
I'm so concerned he is going to make things really ugly for me.
Stop thinking like this. He may not. Has he withheld money before? Has he not provided for his kids in the past? Separate his actions from him the person and ask yourself (and not when your pissed) is he really that type of man?
Do what you need to do Jennifer to protect yourself...my short advice (after my ramble above)...just do what is right.
God Bless and Happy Halloween
Eric
I see what you are saying Eric. BUT, I am only coming from the perspective of: I don't know who this man is anymore, he cannot be trusted, desperate times call for desperate measures (is what I think he might be thinking) and I just NEVER know if he could get to the point where he would take my diamonds. I feel that I/we can't afford to take that risk. I wasn't doing it to be hurtful. I wasn't doing it to be spiteful. I wasn't trying to make him "pay" for any of his wrongdoings.
I'm genuinely concerned that I am dealing with a man who yes, might be capable of doing something like that. Look at it this way...I have NO way of knowing what he is doing with the business, he could be telling me all kinds of stuff, but I don't ever see the daily sales and records. He could be or could already have been socking money away into some account for all I know. Add to this, he's a gambler - he likes to bet... I guess also, I think about the fact that while we were separated the first time (5 years ago) I found out that he spent THOUSANDS of dollars on MOW and her children! All the while, screaming and yelling at me that we had NO money...and yelling at me "GET A JOB!" Also, before I got laid off in 2003, I, yes ME, was the bread winner! I had an excellent telecom engineering position and was bringing in the big bucks for the first 5 years of our relationship.
So, that's where I am coming from. All I did was take some of my diamond jewelry and put it somewhere safe.
I'm not upset at what you said, just wanted to explain where I was coming from. He doesn't deserve my trust at this point.
Jennifer
I understand. I was just trying to give you another perspective.
Hope all is well with you.
God Bless,
Eric
Not much was happening which explains my lack of posting. Until this weekend...I had plans Saturday night, H came to the house to stay with the kids. I came in rather early at 12 a.m. H commented on the fact that he thought I would have been later than that. I went upstairs to go to bed and woke at about 2 or 3 a.m. to H walking around downstairs, going out the back door and coming back inside...I went downstairs to see what was up and he was crying, saying he doesn't belong here and was going to leave. I didn't really say anything and he called me about 5 mins after he left, crying, depressed about his life, doesn't know who he is. The call was about 20 mins long, I just listened. He texted me at 6 a.m. saying "I'm sorry for what I've done...you deserve better"
Then he texts me last night after the kids were already in bed, saying he is sorry that he was drunk (he was at someone's birthday party) and didn't call the kids" Then he texted me at 1 a.m. telling me "Long night...I'm safe...sorry"
I get into work today to find this email that he sent me around 2 a.m. last night:
"again I sit here late at night... having slept an hour over the past 60+ hours... I am exhausted physically beyond belief and mentally, well I am gone... I ask myself what is wrong with me... what did I do to deserve this... not what is going on with us but my whole life in general...I think about the past and I have nightmares, I think about the future and I am fckg scared...even worse I think about the present and realize I have nobody, I have nothing and I am out of strength... What has made me strong in the past now makes me very week. where there was hope lay open dreams that will remain unfulfilled...so many look to me for strength and guidance yet I have nothing to offer to myself...I feel the cold concrete beneath my feet and realize that is my bed... I look at those beautiful pictures of my children and am scared to think about what they think of me... I am 41 I have no family, no true friends to count on, a business that is failing,I'm in debt up to the top of my head,basically I have nothing and am a fckng loser, yet it is expected of me to provide for my children, run my business, answer questions from friends and colleagues, pay off the debt and somehow stay sane and strong... well it aint happening... All I have ever wanted was to be loved for who I am...I have come to the conclusion that that will never happen...the question is what do i do... and the answer well I dont know... I would like to say that someday I will see the light at the end of the tunnel, but it would end up being a train that would run me over...."
I don't even know what to say.
Jennifer,
Good Lord that email breaks my heart. I keep remembering how terribly sad MLC is for them. I pray that he find peace Jennifer - some how, some way.
Stay strong.
Jennifer
I don't even know what to say.
Neither do I...and that's saying something.
My only advice...
Love from a distance and pray that your H gets the help he needs.
I would also say (and maybe that is just me) to never loose hope that he can change and address his demons. I am not saying that you should stand for an eternity. No. Just that regardless of what you decide to do..always pray for your H. He needs it.
God Bless,
Eric
Thank TAMF and Eric.
Not much to update. More of the same. I'm doing okay though despite all the craziness. I am very accepting of who I am and where my life is right now and I am making the very best of it that I can.
H...strangely was reaching out to me via text late night all last week. I suppose looking for answers. I reiterated that I don't have his answers. That he has them and needs to find them within himself. Now he's back on the blaming me for everything rant.
I'm tired. But I know I am not to blame. Just tired of getting it beat into my head all of the time.
Jennifer
I am very accepting of who I am and where my life is right now and I am making the very best of it that I can.
Good for YOU!
strangely was reaching out to me via text late night all last week.
Why answer?
Now he's back on the blaming me for everything rant.
And that affects you HOW?
Eric
Updating: I realize I haven't been on here for awhile. I've been feeling really at peace with myself and with my life as it is. Not sure where all this is coming from, but I am not complaining, that's for sure!
H actually asked to come home about 2 weeks ago. I said "no". For many reasons such as: Hhe asked to come back out of desperation, not because WITH ME is where he truly wants to be. Just the day before he asked to come home, he was trying to get me to talk about divorce logistics. It just didn't make any sense and I told him that he is "all over the place". And I said "why? because of kids? because of money?" and he said because of everything. He said he thinks it would be easier to just try to make things work. And I said "how would that work? You're not in love with me and I don't feel like I am in love with you anymore?" He said "one day at a time"...and I said "I can't do it, I'm tired, tired of looking over my shoulder, tired of wondering who he's talking to or texting with, tired of wondering who he's meeting up with when he goes out, just tired of it all" He got real nasty after that and started demanding I tell him what I want in the divorce. I told him that I refused to talk about anything via text and that we need to sit down and discuss things, emotions aside. That still has not happened. In fact, he stayed at the house to watch the kids while I went out that Friday night and after I got home, he came upstairs and said "I know you hate me and all, but do you want to have sex?" I said "WHHHHAAAATTTT?" He said "sorry, that was wrong" and went back downstairs crying.
So I am starting to realize I think, this peaceful feeling that I have, might be because I didn't realize how much stress I really was under and just how much everything he was doing behind my back was bothering me, when he was home.
I'm glad you said no to his request to come home. It doesn't sound like he's in a healthy place at all. It would just be more of the same. You're at peace right now - that says a lot. You are a very strong person.
Hi Jennifer,
It looks to me like your husband wants to come home, but not face any consequences; and that's NOT going to happen.
You did right by refusing to allow him to come home; he is really messed up in the head.
Until he gets his act together; faces himself FULLY, AND makes positive changes that will cause him to grow up much more than the age he's acting now, all that's going to happen if you'd caved and allowed him to come home would be that he would continue to act as if he was entitled to do as he pleased...and he'd cut and run once again, IF you didn't end up throwing out before he did that.
Sure, he got nasty after you drew your boundary after refusing to allow him to come home; he's now figuring out that you're not going to put up with his crap any longer.
And people do get mad when they don't get their way; especially when they have no respect; and are immature; needing to grow up some more.
It's now completely up to you as to what you want to do..it was always up to you.
I think he thought that if he came home; things would get better; and he could bully you into "forgetting" what all has happened, but things wouldn't get any better either way, while he's in the shape he's in.
Man oh man what a mess!
Yet, it's your HUSBAND'S mess, not yours.
I'd come in tonight, looking to see how things were going..and after this last update, looks like things are getting worse for him, NOT you.
That last post I read was much calmer and more settled...and the peace you feel is great, and I hope it lasts. God gives a peace that surpasses all understanding..it is given while within a trial, when the stress becomes too much for you to bear.
Lord, he SO needs to grow up!
You're in my thoughts and prayers.
I don't have any real good advice to give you; except pray and pray some more for guidance....things could go either way at this time.
He needs to examine himself; but he's still looking to you for answers, and you cannot give him any answers..they must come from within himself.
He's a man child caught in a cycle of immaturity; and he really doesn't know what he wants at this point..and you cannot help him at all.
He must help himself.
We can only do what we can do, and let the rest go into the hands of the Lord to deal with.
God will guide your steps, Jennifer...He's the only one who knows what is ahead, now.
Blessings and peace to you and the children.
Jennifer,
I can only give you the benefit of my experience. Here goes. 8 yrs. ago, my H had an affair, acted much as your husband does now, was depressed. Caught him many times pacing in the kitchen in the dark of night repeating over and over again "It's not My fault"., Many of your comments of your husband ring true to what I went through then. Long story short. I let him come back before the crisis was dealt with. Basically, it got sidelined by the Iraqi War, when he was deployed.
Fast forward 6 years. Now, H is battling PTSD, alcohol, and the MLC that was never resolved in the first place. Top that off with facing mandatory retirement from the Military. He went completely and totally bonzo.
Moral: I think you are right to not let husband come home too early as a sort of 'band-aide' on the situation. MLC has to be dealt with. It refuses to be buried and covered up for long. I have no idea what works for you and your H; therapy, religious counseling, romantic trips, etc., but the problems still have to be dealt with.
For you: You can forgive, but you won't forget.
For him: Those that don't learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat them.
Good luck, and have a good day Jen.
Hi all,
Haven't posted in awhile, guess I just didn't feel the need to.
Alot has happened over the past couple of months. From H showing up drunk one night at 2 am, begging me to have sex with him; I adimantly refused which caused him to storm out... to the holidays when he suggested I take the kids to be with HIS family because he felt that I was more welcome there than him. (They're not very happy with his choices) Turned out that we went to his brothers (his mom was visiting and really wanted to see me, so I decided to go) on Christmas Eve, all 4 of us, as I told him I would go, but NOT in place of him. H pretty much sat in a corner, sulking just about the whole time. Being Mr Doom and Gloom, as usual. Then there was our son's 9th birthday party, where, more of the same, sulking, standing off by himself, not really talking to anyone... meanwhile I was fine and enjoying myself and the company of everyone there. None of it an act, all real, me being true to myself. To a few days before New Year's Eve, H got a DUI and leaving the scene of an accident charge. (He calls me at 1 am that night and tells me the whole story and that he was dropping of his "friend" Karen, (one of the numerous women he has reached out to) after they had been drinking and as he left, he said he must have backed into a car (he didn't realize it and has no damage on his vehicle) while leaving her condo complex, the police were called, found him and pulled him over and he got the DUI. He called and called and called me that night and I hung up on him after he told me where he was and who he was with and I texted him "Don't call me, call Karen"
So here we are present day...he found a condo to rent, and is moving into it on Saturday. He's moving some furniture out of our house today.
Jennifer,
Sounds like your H is quite broken. I'm glad you are moving on and living your life and not letting him drag you down. Good for you. Giving our kids as "normal" a life as possible can be so hard, but it sounds like you're doing really well. Thanks for the update.
I know I need to get stuff out but I really don't even know what to say anymore.
I'm not in my "happy" place anymore. I've been allowing H to drag me down and it all has to do with finances also because I am scared for mine and my children's future.
He's being mean and nasty and resentful - he hates that I get to live in our home with our children. Told me the other day he wishes he could tell me to get the "F" out of the house and have me move into his condo and he'll stay at the house with the kids since he's paying for it anyway. He told me he can't afford to pay the mortgage anymore. He wants us to file personal bankruptcy. Where he used to appreciate me having a job and carrying all of our health benefits, now he's become resentful to me because I don't make alot of money at my job and he still has to support ME - that's what he calls it - that's all he ever says to me - is I HAVE TO PAY YOU. He's being awful. I told him "just because you decided to leave doesn't mean that all of our bills disappeared!" He says "I F-ING KNOW THAT!"
Dealing with a person who is so irrational, doesn't make any sense, and is extremely hot-headed at the same time is just awful. I wish he would go away but I know that isn't possible. I don't deserve how mean he is being to me.
Like yesterday, I had to let him know that we needed $$ in the account, because I had to send out his car payment, son's college fund is being automatically withdrawn (and he already knew this stuff last week) but still hadn't put any money in account, so I had to remind him. His reply to me was "Yes ma'am, I'll get right on it!"
He's such a prick.
((JenniferA))
Yep!!
It really [censored] to be dealing with the emotional pain and ramifications plus financial problems on top of it all. I'm facing the need to ask for $$ in our joint account as well.....for the first time.
Journaling:
Wow, it's been awhile since I've posted. And where to begin...well, H moved into a condo mid January. Seems ever since then, the late night texting that he was previously doing often has completely stopped since he got his place.
He's not coming to me for answers anymore like previously. We have a schedule down with the kids, he has been having them every other weekend and he also picks them up from school twice a week and spends a couple hours with them (at the house)
We met with a bankruptcy lawyer because we are considering filing Chapter 7. We had 1 divorce discussion regarding the kids, alimony and child support. We don't have a plan. Everything is in limbo because we are waiting to find out if we qualify for Chap. 7 first. We also cannot file for divorce until after that happens, otherwise we would need 2 lawyers, 1 to represent each of us in the bankruptcy case. H is refusing to even pay a mediator to handle the divorce. He believes we can do everything ourselves as long as we agree. My hands are tied because I don't have $$ to try to afford one myself.
His DUI case keeps getting postponed. He is on Match.com...I found this out from a friend of mine who happened to be friends with a girl he tried to hook up with on Match. Evidently he freaked her out because he seemed "too eager" and then she heard he has a bad rep. That he's a liar and cheats all the time and so she told him that she doesn't date "separated" men - when he showed up at a bar (freaked her out) that he knew she was going to.
It appeared that after that transpired, I got a nasty, nasty text from him in response to a text I sent him asking if he heard anything from the bankruptcy lawyer yet and where we stand because we cannot move forward with anything until that starts. So, the text from him said (and mind you, he had no idea that I knew about the whole Match date thing and the girl) - anyway he said "No, and we need to get this *^&^ done..I can't live like this anymore..you have guys that know you talking %^&% about me and how I am nothing but a lying piece of ^&%^ that cheats all the time..I want out and I need a life...I am so F&%$#*$& pissed off right now..I hate everything!"
So I replied with "I agree and that's why I asked if you heard from the bankrptcy lawyer so that we can move forward"
Then I get "Tell people you know to keep m y name out of their mouth and mind their own business...you know what I will do..%*^% everyone...^%$*$ you and all of your do gooder friends...if I find out who's talking %&$* I am going to prectice my kung fu all over that mot&&%*% f4$%$^..I'm done being nice in any way!"
My reply: "I don't know what you're talking about"
Then he got into a whole elaborate lie about how all of it transpired - ya know, leaving out the part about being on Match.com and just acting like it was something that occurred on facebook. But I know the truth. he he.
He went off a few more times, to which I just replied with a "yeah, it's a small world" and "don't you think the general public is aware of things you've done? Doesn't necessarily have to be someone that knows me that's talking crap" And then I told him to stop taking it out on me. He then apologized that night and the next morning, numerous times. I never brought it up again.
Ugh, he's so desperate.
Not sure what's going on with me lately. It feels as if it's getting harder to deal with my situation as time is going by. I don't know why, but lately I've been breaking down crying after seeing or hearing from H (almost every time and totally unbeknownst to him). I do n't really know what I am crying about. I feel sad. I know that I don't deserve the way I let him treat me over the years but there are parts of me that miss him. And yes, I am grateful that he is really involved with our kids, however, it makes it really difficult for me to always have to see him. And I don't know why it feels like I'm getting worse not better. I was doing so well a few months ago...not so much right now.
I feel really frustrated that nothing is moving in any direction whatsoever. It's been almost 7 months now. My hands are tied, I can't do anything. I can't help this move forward (meaning the divorce) it's in his hands and nothing is happening. I told him a week ago that I just want this done. I don't want to keep living like this. Something has to change and I don't know what to do get there.
We were both at S first baseball game Sat. and he kept coming over to me, joking about stuff, our S, etc...then would walk away and go on the other side of the dugout. It's so weird. So sad. I miss our family but I do NOT miss what I allowed him to put me through the past 4 years. At the game, I was talking to him about a couple of the kids on S team and he goes "how do you know their names already?" Like in a weird accusatory way -maybe b/c the one boy I was talking about is one of the coaches kids (the coach who just so happens to be HOT btw, lol) so I don't know if he thinks...who am I kidding...no one knows what he thinks or why or how, right? lol.
Anyway, just rambling. Not sure what I am feeling or thinking.
Feel free to chime in with any comments.
And I don't know why it feels like I'm getting worse not better. I was doing so well a few months ago...not so much right now.
Jennifer, this ^^^^ is probably because of this:
I feel really frustrated that nothing is moving in any direction whatsoever. It's been almost 7 months now.
It is an expectation. I know because I've been there. Many times. It is the reason that you will hear over and over again here -- no expectations. Expectations only set you up for disappointment, not only with a MLC/WAS, but throughout life. Having no expectations is a mindset that will serve you well now, and throughout the rest of your life. Remember whom you can control, ad whom you can't.
(((Hugs)))
Hi, I remember you! My bomb was late 2005, but my xh never really wanted to reconcile. Still crazy and mean. I think it is harder when they come back and then run again. We are now divorced [took 5 years though], and I have broken all contact. Much easier that way.
I do wonder if most of them never really 'get over it'. Clearly some do, and I would never suggest we should give up easily, but there does seem to come a point at which our lives need to move on. I am happier and more at peace with myself now I have closed the door, but no regrets at having waited so long to do it.
Sadly my xh has alienated his children [my fault apparently!] and that is bad for all of them I think.