And so it goes - DivorceBusting.com

Starting a new thread so we can carry on.

Here is a link to your first thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2033073&page=1

For future reference they have asked us to start new threads when ours exceed 10 pages.
The board works better with smaller threads.

lTaylor -
Just checking in....how are things going?

Hey L,

What's up, haven't heard from you in awhile?

Okay L, I'm starting to worry a bit. You haven't posted on the boards and you haven't answered email. Everything okay????

Wow, guys. Wow. I don't even know where to start. So, at the beginning I guess. Friday I decided to tell my H that I couldn't go on this way and ask him what he wanted to do about it. I needed to have things change, I just couldn't keep obsessing, crying, hoping, talking, etc about all of it. My friends and family were wanting the old me back and I was just tired. I was stuck and the GAL thing wasn't happening. So, I just let go..I was ready to accept his answer to be done and move on. When i said that to him on friday night, he said what I thought he would say..ya, this isn't working for me either, i'm not happy, we need to go our separate ways. I said ok, we'll sit down and divide things up on paper in the morning over coffee and be done then. Then I went to my room and read. Saturday morning, we did just that. I was crying cuz it was sad, but stuck it out. Then Saturday night we had a glass of wine and talked. I asked him why he never tried. I just wanted to know. We ended up talking for 2 hours and at the end he surprised me by saying,"What kinds of things did you want me to do to "try"" and then.."Well, why don't you let me think about all this over night". I honestly wasn't sure what to say.

Sunday we went to lunch, I wrote down some ideas about what I needed to show me that he was trying. I gave it to him and asked that we make a decision that day. Just before bedtime, he asked me if I wanted to talk about it, and I said yes. He told me that he thought he could do some of the things I suggested and he wanted to try. Believe me when I say that no one was more surprised than me. I thought it was over.

Since Sunday, much has changed. His eyes sparkle, he laughs, he has been attentive, nice, a little kiss goodbye or goodnight, texts, little notes at the house, phone calls. Wow.

The best thing that happened tho, was that I woke up this morning and I had this incredible feeling of calm. The fear is gone. By letting go, I faced my own fears for the future and met it head on. I have never felt so good about myself, about us, about life. It's the weirdest thing..I have been sitting here trying to figure out what happened, analyze it to death like I always do..but sometimes there is no reason why..it just is. I know whatever happens, I will be ok. And feel without a doubt that our marriage is going to survive and be what I've been saying it could be all along. I have never felt so connected to him before. I tried to figure out if it's been all the heart to heart talks we've had, this whole ordeal we've been thru for the past 3 years, a change in him or me..I finally decided to just stop trying to figure out why and just enjoy this feeling.

And no matter what happens, I KNOW I will be ok. It is such a liberating thing. I questioned whether he was just pretending to try so that he could talk to a lawyer and get his ducks in a row, or for financial reasons--(didn't want to let go of all he worked for), or because he didn't have anywhere to go..and I struggled with that for 2 days. But for whatever reason, I don't care anymore. If he is staying for any of those reasons, and not really because he wants to work it out, it doesn't matter. I know I am going to be ok..and I KNOW we are going to be ok..whatever that means.

I haven't felt this good for 3 long years. I didn't know how miserable I really was. People are going to be skeptical about his 180 turnaround, and it really hasn't been a total 180 since this past month and a half he has been slowly getting closer to me..but like I said..it doesn't matter what happens anymore. I know in my heart that I will be ok and that is all I needed to know.

I'm happy for you.

Now the hard part begins.

HUGS

tell me about the hard part..i should probably be prepared as much as possible.

Taylor,
Be careful. I know my wife is in MLC. She has done similar to
what you have said as recent as 1 month ago. We had sex. Knew
this might just be peeking through the tunnel, touch and go,
whatever you want to call it. Just be prepared for a withdrawl
back into the tunnel. This kind of thing has happened to me
about 5 times in the last two months. From what I have read,
if they are starting to face some of those fears, they go in
and out a lot. Doc said this too. Going through it right now as a fact. Remember, zero expectations. Ride the wave a little but be prepared for the wipeout. If no wipeout, then no biggie. I have had wipeouts everytime. The frequency of waves seem to increase but the wipeouts are pretty devastating. I think they get more and more devastating to me because each one happens with a little more strength behind them. I could be wrong but
this is what I have seen.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

We ended up talking for 2 hours and at the end he surprised me by saying,"What kinds of things did you want me to do to "try"" and then.."Well, why don't you let me think about all this over night". I honestly wasn't sure what to say.

Sunday we went to lunch, I wrote down some ideas about what I needed to show me that he was trying. I gave it to him and asked that we make a decision that day. Just before bedtime, he asked me if I wanted to talk about it, and I said yes. He told me that he thought he could do some of the things I suggested and he wanted to try. Believe me when I say that no one was more surprised than me. I thought it was over.

So, what things did you tell him you would need, LT? What were your Boundaries of Personal Integrity -- your "dealbreakers" this time, having learned the hard, painful way from his past behaviors?

Puppy

LT,

Believe me, we are all happy for you, but Warrior Shadow and PDT are right. The moods he may go through right now would make a bipolar maniac look like Mother Theresa. We could be wrong, everything could be 100% sincere. Just protect yourself. As said above, enjoy the wave, but be prepared for the wipeout.

Glad to hear back from you, girl. I was getting worried.

Hey Taylor ...

NOW is the time for you to continue detaching, GALing and generally ... DOING THE WORK! If you haven't read it yet, then I would suggest "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" and both DB and DR.

Pushing too close could easily trigger him to pull back, and as everyone here has said already, the likelyhood that he might pull back into the tunnel is high. Emotionally protect yourself ... love him, but continue to do the work that will help you be a strong, confident, healthy woman whether he sticks around or not!

Good luck!
PEI

Originally Posted By: lTaylor

I know in my heart that I will be ok and that is all I needed to know.

This worries me ... it sounds like you now "know" you are going to be ok ... now that he is back, now that he is ready to work on the marriage ...

How are you going to continue to work on YOU, what are you going to do, so that you truly believe you will be OK regardless of the choices and decisions that your H makes, now or in the future?

PEI

ITay,

As everyone has already said...be careful...be very careful. Go SLOWLY....

IMO, he needs to be very remorseful and read Puppy's comments to you.

Whatever you do...stay true to YOU.

Good luck and God Bless

Eric

Puppy, I had a list of about 8 things. The two deal breakers were, a)he had to cut things off with OW. No more contact period. I would not share him with anyone else. b)we needed to start moving forward with some kind of physical and emotional intimacy. Slowly, but something needed to happen. I can't live like roommates anymore.

the other things were :
- marriage Counseling
-calls when out of town, texts, emails, notes to tell me he is thinking about me and cares.
-flowers
-cards
-reconcile with our families
-make plans and talk about future goals together
-stop sneaking around and hiding/locking his phone and computer
-oogle me instead of women at grocery stores

That's all I can think of. They were mainly suggestions that he asked for. He has started doing most of them already.
I made sure he knew they were not demands..but suggestions. He is an intelligent and creative man..he can think of stuff too.

OK. You need to make sure he is COMPLETELY transparent with you -- not dribs and drabs, a password here and an unlocked phone there. Your transparency plan is your firewall, between predator OW and the safety of your marriage with your husband.

And I would HIGHLY recommend that you have at least ONE form of intel, that is NOT known to your husband (for the obvious reasons).

Finally, and I know this is painful and personal, but you should really insist on a full-panel STD test, with a copy of the results going to you, before you get intimate with him. Please be safe.

Please keep us posted, and good luck!

Puppy

Well guys..thanks for caring about me and also for your comments. I know it probably doesn't make sense, but the reason it's different is because I am prepared to move on if he doesn't try this time. I know you all say, hang in there and all that..but I was done on friday and I am not backing down on any of my dealbreakers. There are only two dealbreakers. The other things were suggestions for how he could show me he was trying cuz he kept telling me he was trying in his own way..but he wasn't..he basically was just here. I am not trying to sound bitchy, but I just got tired of hoping, obsessing, crying, putting my life on hold. and by letting all that go, it made me feel 100% better. I know I will be ok no matter what happens. If I move and start over, I am not afraid anymore. If we stay and trudge thru this, great...but I'm not doing all the work anymore and I'm not undoing the financial protections I put in place to help me in the event of a separation or divorce. I also will not move all my stuff in the winter so if he decides not to work on this after..oh say..about September/November...then he will have to wait until next spring for me to evacuate the house.

Don't get me wrong..I love him dearly and really hope it works..he knows this. But I'm done with the back and forth stuff. He was very vocal about telling me he was not a member of any dating website nor does he have a FB account. I believe him. At the very least, I don't care anymore anyway. I'll be able to tell if things aren't going the way we agreed. So, as for my being careful..I've done all I can do and now it's pretty much up to him. I am going about my life. I told him I want the old person I used to be back again and so does everyone else I know. So, enough of this baloney. He can do whatever he wants.

I am searching for a new counselor as we speak. A marriage counselor this time. Some of the things you all have mentioned will be brought up there and we can address them then. I plan to make an appt for next week. I already told him and he agreed. I would like a solution based counselor that is versed in MWD principles..do you know how I can find one of those in my area?

Originally Posted By: Taylor

but I just got tired of hoping, obsessing, crying, putting my life on hold. and by letting all that go, it made me feel 100% better.

THAT

Is what detaching is all about.

It clears your head.

Let's you work on you.

Let's you heal.

Let's you see things differently.

Let's you be patient.

Let's you understand.

Let's you feel compassion.

Let's you grow...

And much more.

Look it is your choice what you want to do and what you can handle.

Quote:

He can do whatever he wants.

And he will...

The question is are you going to make a choice based on a reaction to his?

Or

Make your own.

Not as a victim of someone elses choice but

As a free person deciding based on who you are and what YOU want?

A decision for Taylor.

lt,

Sounds like you have a good plan and your head and heart are on straight. Great advice from the posters here.

Aren't the people here the coolest?

ITay,

I am not sure if you will appreciate this post and by all means you can feel free to tell me to go pound sand or go F � myself. I am posting this because I care ITay..I really do. I am not trying to hurt you. I just do not want to see you hurt. I really don�t.

First off, every case of MLC is different. There are similarity but really everyone person is different so consider this when you read the rest of this post.

You join the boards on 7/6 (23 days ago).

And now you have given him an ultimatum, which it appears has prompted him to reconsider and begin working on the M. historically, this has not worked (at least from my time on the boards and reading the archives) so I would be very careful as you move forward.

So do you feel that you have done the work on yourself so that you fixed/addressed some of the issues that brought you here to begin with?

Do you think that your H has worked through his MLC issue in a few months?

So what work did you need to do�.

I believe that for someone who claimed to be controlling (on 7/6 you admitted to being �a bit controlling�); applying the last resort technique, which is what you did, on someone in a MLC does not work. At least not in the long term.

IMO, you have �exerted� your control over the situation. You wanted what you wanted NOW and so you played your card. To me, it tells me that you have not dealt with your control issues.

You admitted to being the �take charge� type person in the M � here is your quote on 7/6.

Quote:

He has problems with decision making so I naturally assumed the role, someone had to

This is control.

You told your H about the MLC and this site..
[qupte]On 7/6 you posted�.And yes, he does know about this place. I thought it would be good for him to know what he was dealing with so I sent him the link to the archived post "MLC for Dummies". [/quote]
This is control IMO

ITay � I have watched your post very closely and I sooooo hope that your attempt at reconciliation with your H are successful. I just find it hard to believe that in 23 days, you�ve addressed your issues, H has addressed his issues, H has fully gotten over his little ML crisits OP and that both of you may not be ready to do the work needed to try to avoid this from happening in the future.

May I ask what prompted you to use an ultimatum? You said that you were patient�

On 7/6 you told us you were a �VERY PATIENT PERSON�

Yet as patient as you are you decided to give him an ultimatum even after you posted this on 7/6�

Quote:

you're right..I am not prepared to give any kind of ultimatum because I want this to work.

To me it scream like you wanted your M back at whatever cost and you were going to get it.
Could it be that you want this M to work right now because YOU do not want to change your lifestyle as opposed to waiting it out and doing the work for you.

On 7/6 you posted�.

Quote:

�I am more of a spender than he is.�

Quote:

but to do that I would need to sell our house and move from here which means D

Could it be that you finally caved under the pressure?
On 7/6 you posted�.

Quote:

think my C feels that I should tell him to give her up totally or get out and get divorced. it is my belief that he thinks it will shock him into reality

On 7/6 you posted�.

Quote:

Most of my support group is looking at me like I'm crazy and wondering out loud why I put up with all this.

Look ITay, I do not want this (see below) to happen to you again (from your post on 7/6)

Quote:

He moved out (not w/her) the end of December 2009 and then back in Feb then out again first part of March, then back in in April.

Quote:

He was VERY resentful when he moved back after breaking it off, saying he thought he moved back for the wrong reasons and feeling like he'd given up the love of his life and eternal happiness because he didn't want to leave me with nothing.

ITay�please be careful, don�t push, go slow, continue to give him space�and MORE importantly continue to make those changes in YOU.

God Bless,
Eric

Well said Eric.

Itay listen, everyone is trying to get through to you.
They have words of wisdom.
We have all been here before.
There are no shortcuts.
The only way over the mountain range is straight up and then down.
You cannot try any other route.
They will not work.
They will be a cheeseless tunnel.
Get MWD's book, DR and read it.

We will all still be here when you need us.

lTay - email please.

Eric,

I'm as skeptical as the next guy, and was one of the original "wet-blankets" to post thusly above. But in re-reading ltay's description of the events, I'm not seeing any "ultimatum" or "control" here:

Quote:

Friday I decided to tell my H that I couldn't go on this way and ask him what he wanted to do about it. I needed to have things change, I just couldn't keep obsessing, crying, hoping, talking, etc about all of it. My friends and family were wanting the old me back and I was just tired. I was stuck and the GAL thing wasn't happening. So, I just let go..I was ready to accept his answer to be done and move on. When i said that to him on friday night, he said what I thought he would say..ya, this isn't working for me either, i'm not happy, we need to go our separate ways. I said ok, we'll sit down and divide things up on paper in the morning over coffee and be done then. Then I went to my room and read. Saturday morning, we did just that. I was crying cuz it was sad, but stuck it out. Then Saturday night we had a glass of wine and talked. I asked him why he never tried. I just wanted to know. We ended up talking for 2 hours and at the end he surprised me by saying,"What kinds of things did you want me to do to "try"" and then.."Well, why don't you let me think about all this over night". I honestly wasn't sure what to say.

(all emphasis mine)

HE asked HER what it would take, and she told him. How is that an "ultimatum"???

The way I see it, this was more of the "Let them Go" approach that Robx and Gucci have been preaching (to largely deaf ears) over in Newcomers for so long, than an ultimatum.

But I DO remain skeptical, mostly of the transparency "plan".

Puppy

My only follow up to that would be that it appears to me Taylor that your decision was made to "let go"

Because you couldn't detach, GAL and do 180s for you.

You couldn't take the pain that must be endured or "pushed" through to the other side.

And that is a shame IMO.

I agree with "letting go" BUT

Do the work.

Letting go because you can't do the work then you have sold yourself short IMO.

They are both cycling. At this point the cycles are bring them closer together. What happens when this push's them apart?
That is the true test of your relationship.
When the going gets tough, do the tough get going?

Eric, I understand what you are saying. But Puppy is right..there was no control. I didn't ask him to make some sort of decision to control the sitch. I was just tired of living like this. I have changed so much and it hasn't been just since i joined this board. He told me about his A the beginning of Nov. '09. So we have been dealing with this for almost 9 months. The OP has moved out of state, they have not seen each other for 4 months, but still text and talk on the phone. Because of that, he can't emotionally re-attach to me. I haven't been intimate with anyone for 18 months. I just got tired of it and when I read about all the stories here I realized that I could wait for years til he comes out of this and we still may not even make it. So, I made the decision to accept whatever decision he made. I have done work on myself... and so has he..we have learned more about each other in the past 9 months than we have in the 20 years we've been together, I have been giving it my all. But he was just hanging around, doing nothing and I didn't want that life anymore.

I still love him, want to be married to him and all that..but decided that if he wasn't going to even try some of the things I had previously asked for or suggested, then I needed to move on...for me. I have mentioned the horrible winters here..it's the end of July, and I still have a chance to get out of here before the snow flys. I know you guys think us LBSers should hang in there and be patient and take all the BS, but I had had enough. If I had seen some hope, I might have stuck it out longer before asking him about it, but I didn't see any hope. It had gotten really icky here..I felt like he was sneaking around, hiding things and every time I looked at his face it reminded me of what we used to have and it just made me incredibly sad, wanting that. I'm probably just weak..but I couldn't do it anymore. If he wanted out, then i was going to accept his decision. But he said he'd try a little harder and he has..and that is all I was asking for. Control? no. doing this together? yes. And we are now, so I can stay for a little longer. Patient? yes, in my opinion. As patient as I can be.

We seem to have the friendship part pretty much locked up..it's the intimacy part that needs some help. That it why I suggested counseling. To see if we can get that back. I think what has happened to us is that we are best friends and somehow the bounderies between being husband and wife and best friends got blurred or overstepped each other. i don't know how to change that.

Any ideas you guys might have in regards to finding the right kind of counselor for what we need, would be appreciated. I don't relish the idea of going from marriage counselor to MC just trying to find the one we will click with..even tho I guess that is the way it works. Hopefully we'll find one that applies the principles as MWD. Ideas? Suggestions? Is there a place on this forum or the DB webiste that would list counselors in my area or how do I find out what the philosophy of a counselor is before investing alot of time and money into one I just pick out of the phone book?

ITay

I understand sweetie..you know what is best for you. I was only trying to point out what I saw.

I wish you and your H the best. Keep working sweetie...keep working.

In terms of a counselor - trying contacting the DB 1-800 # and see if they have some ideas.

God Bless,
Eric

Eric..thanks for the info. I'll see if I can find the 800 number and ask them for local counselors.

I'm going to be ok..and I hope my H will be too. Maybe he really isn't MLC, maybe he was WAS. Not sure at this point. Maybe a marriage counselor can determine that.

I read some of your post from another thread and wanted to wish you my best with your sitch also. You sound good and like you have definately done your homework. These types of situations are necessary for growth and I can see you're growing. Good for you. I hope your W will see that too.

Originally Posted By: lTaylor

I know you guys think us LBSers should hang in there and be patient and take all the BS

Not necessarily Taylor ... careful with those generalizations

I googled "marriage friendly" MCs ... and solution oriented MCs and found lots of lists that were good for the USA ... give it a try.

My advice would be to call/email around and ask specific questions ...

- Are you trained in couples therapy (as opposed to practising couples therapy after having been trained in individual therapy)?
- Are you PRO marriage?
- Do you practise solution-oriented therapy?
- Are you familiar with MWD's style of MC? Gottman's?
- Anecdotally, what percentage of your clients stay together vs. divorce?

Now, keep in mind that not all therapists are going to answer those questions directly or with specific numbers but their answers should be very revealing to you. Hopefully the call/email will save you venturing into the office of one who would do more harm than good! I'm a big believer in "bad therapy is worse than no therapy".

Good luck,
Peace
PEI

Originally Posted By: Taylor

I know you guys think us LBSers should hang in there and be patient and take all the BS, but I had had enough.

If that is what you got from what we have posted to you then you haven't been listening...

We told you to detach so you could get away from the bullsh!t.

Not sit there and take it.

Patience yes.

That is part of what is required because before you work on YOU you have to get yourself out of the way of the line of fire.

Perfect detachment is not only getting away from the bullsh!t but actually being able to hear or experience it

and it rolls off your back...in other words it doesn't effect you.

I (or anyone here) will not tell you what to do with your M. That is a personal decision.

Challenge you? yes. Based on our experience.

Our goal here is not to fix your M because that takes two people.

We know that the only one we can reach is the one posting here. Right?

Our goal is to help you deal with trauma of this unfortunate occurance in your life and

Help you heal and

Grow.

IMO, and this only based on my expereince, that starts with standing for your M.

For me that was standing up for what I believe in (Love and commitment to my M) and I wasn't going to let anyone make me compromise myself.

If I am going, I am going on my terms.

Not as a victim of bad behavior.

But that is me.

You can say this

Originally Posted By: Taylor

I have done work on myself

But I challenge you to read over the threads you have here.

Is that the changed person you want to be?

Are you done?

PEI..about the generalizations..there seems to be a definite difference between how the MLC group and the Infidelity group handle these things..we've touched on that in my other thread. that's all I was saying. We all have our own individual theory about how we want to realate to things.

I did some calling around. I found a guy who is trained in Marital therapy. He was recommended by another marital therapist who doesn't take our insurance..and who was not solution based. This guy says he usually can get a couple on track within 3-4 sessions and has an average of 5-6 total. That's if he sees that both people are willing to try and haven't come in there already wanting out of the marriage. He is also experienced with MLC and knows that is a specific form of issue. he takes evening hours and seems very nice and laid back. All good things. I'm feeling good about him. He is going to call and check into our insc requirements.

Absolutely, major differences, for a reason. But not all on the MLC boards think exactly the same way, and as Grit pointed out ... taking the BS is not what's being prescribed.

Sounds good to me ... and ya never know, the fact that it's a man might help H open up ... good luck! Let us know how it goes ...

PEI

Waited longer than a month? Holy Hell you ARE patient.

ITay,

Thank you for your kinds words. Funny thing is that at this point in my life I am a little less concerned about my M and more concerned about the people involved. Most notably ME and my kids.

If my M goes down the shi*ter, I know I did all that I could with the TOOLS that I had at the time. BUT as the good Lord says...everything happens for a reason..everything happens in his time.

I came here totally broken and f'd up. I can now stand up and say...

I am nice guy
I love myself
I am funny
I am hard worker
I am a great dad
I am a good looking guy
I am compassionate
I am loving
I am sexy
I am kind
I really care about people
I love deeply
I am emotional
I am REAL
I know who I am and I no longer need anyone to validate that.

I agree with my Bro Grit...I am not hear to tell you want to do with your M. You know yourself better than anyone (right?).

What I want sooo much for you to get is this...know who you really are. Get to a place where YOU no longer rely on a M or an R to define who you are, to validate who you are. You just need to know it sweetie. If say you do then that's good enough for me.

If you feel your H is ready and has done the work on himself and his issue well then that is good enough for me.

Fear and fustration should never drive your decisions. They should always be made in LOVE. True love. A love that respects and understands that everyone must find their own way. A love the understands that our wishes are just that ours and not anothers.

Once again as the good Lord would say...

Love is kind
Love is patient
Love is long suffering
Love never fails
Love conquers all (FTR I have this tattooed on my arm)

ITay, if things turn for the worse do not be embarrassed to come back here. We are all here for you.

I will leave you with this....Know who YOU are sweetie...Know it and live it. Do not try and go back to something because it is familiar, or because you lack emotional and physical attention. Go back because you love it for what it is and who it is.

If you ever need to talk know that I am here. You know how to reach me.

God Bless,
Eric

Where can I read some good stuff about MLC..other than on this forum? I will try to google it and see what I can find.

I did talk to Virginia at the DB central to discuss marital therapists in my area. She said they no longer give referrals and to speak with one of the DB coaches..I don't have $390 to do that all at one time. I would also like my H to be a part of the recovery process. I did find a couple of people here, but of course the ones I chose are NOT covered under the insurance in network plan. It's just always something. So..I will research the ones that my current IC has suggested and see if they meet some of my needs..mainly "solution-oriented" therapy. Or talk to my H and see if he wants to go out of Network.

Still working on it, haven't thrown in the towel yet.
Thanks everyone for all your encouraging words. I just send him little texts every now and again when he is traveling for work to say --hope you have a great day--miss you and your big muscles--you're so hot..stuff like that. Light and easy. He texted me yesterday several times and also called me 3 times. So he is trying. God I love that man.

And yes Jack, I am patient. But I'm about to be one (a patient) if things don't start doing SOMETHING. Ha!

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

I did talk to Virginia at the DB central to discuss marital therapists in my area. She said they no longer give referrals and to speak with one of the DB coaches..

Are you serious?? WTF???

That's ridiculous!

Puppy

ya, she said that they can't guarantee that any counselors that take their classes and seminars will be the type of quality that they offer with their coaches..or something to that effect. Bummer. That's ok..I think I found a guy in town. I just have to see if we can get in next week.

Any ideas about more reading on MLC then?

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

Any ideas about more reading on MLC then?

Try the library.
There is suggested books in the resources.
See what your library has and start reading.

How is everyone today? Haven't heard much from all of you today. Hope you have a good weekend. I am going to get some Highlights put in my hair tomorrow!! Yaaayyyy!

Had a rough start but it's getting better all the time. Thinking of donig the highlight thing myself. Also, there is some new nail technique where they are not actually applying glue over your nails, but some type of lacquor that helps keep your nails from breaking. Think I'll check that out next week.

Taylor -
Haven't had access to internet to reply but have been following posts. Congratulations on the positive changes in your situation. I pray that they continue. I know that you were looking for some additional resources and I would recommend a couple of websites/email newsletters - www.marriagebuilders.com and also google marriage vine e-newsletters. These have been particularly helpful to me. You are probably in a better place to use this info than me.
I also want you to be very careful ~ please re-read your thread and remain keenly aware of the pain you so openly shared on this board. That vulnerable lady is the one that needs to be cared for - you deserve nothing but the best.
IB

Irish be careful posting other websites and such that might be advertising ok?

<<<<<<<Moderators please be gentle she is new and didn't know

and really needs to be here.

Thank you.>>>>>>>

So sorry - didn't know the rules! Won't do it again!!!

ITay

checking in how are you doing? Did you find a IC yet?

Wow guys!! We went to the new MC, and he is a MC this time..the other guy was an IC and he was very good too, but this guy deals specifically in Marriage. He has a PHD in psychology and teaches it at the local state college. He also has his own practice. He's an older guy and very intelligent and he is SO NICE. We were there for 2 hours. He started talking about how we learn to handle conflict when we are kids (watching our parents and other big people and how they handle confilict)and how that comes back to haunt us as adults before we learn new skills. Because kids handle conflict very differently than mature adults. He purposely didn't even bring up any of our specific problems at all and he actually did most of the talking..he asked us lots of questions about how long we've been together, what our childhood was like, and explained how two people can resolve conflict if they use reason and intelligence to do it. My H loved him..and so do I. We both felt very comfortable with him and we will be going back as soon as we can get in. This MC seems to be pretty popular as far as appts go. The MC told us not to talk about anything that we discussed at the session until Wed (today), so we could both digest what what we talked about. Of course we did talk about it a little but not much and so tonight I hope we'll be able to sit down and talk about it.

My H is trying. I can see that. He seems more relaxed and in the moment, with me. He will talk about things I bring up and offer his comments. He's leaving me little notes and calls me during the day or texts to say hi. He seems much happier too. I'm still applying for jobs but feel like I can breathe again. Didn't realize I was holding my breath for so long. We are definately NOT out of the woods yet, but at least we're walking..instead of standing around wondering which direction to go.

I am still going to the church to light my candles, and I feel that God is hearing my prayers. He led me to this new MC and that was a big deal. I bought some new clothes and continue to lose weight, so that makes me feel pretty good about me. I'm also exercising every day and have started reading my fiction books again. I have been corresponding with my family and friends more now..and we talk about FUN things instead of all this divorce crap.

All in all, things seem to be looking up. But like you all mentioned, I am not assuming that this will be easy or will even work out in the end. I am doing what I can to help us be successful and that's really all I can do, besides tend to myself.

I do have one question for all you guys..especially the guys..how do you deal with a person that is resentful? My H told the MC that he is a resentful person and always has been. I actually had to look up what it meant because I'm not like that at all. I mean of course I get pissed sometimes, but I don't hold grudges or let it effect my relationships or personality. So, how do I learn more about resentment and how to live with someone who is that way? Oh, BTW, the MC also is helping us to learn to tell each other things that are hard to say to each other so that we don't get defensive about it.

Hope all of you are well today.

Taylor -
it sounds as if things are going well. Congratulations ~ hope you are able to maintain your study of your own GALing!
Keep us informed!

How are things going with you Irish?

Honestly, it's been tough. Sometimes I think that I've been in denial because deep down I've been trying to keep hope alive. I have physically detached from him but I am nowhere close to being emotionally detached from him. But I've been focusing on work and the kids - so I'm hoping the time will come when he's not the first thing I think about in the morning. I need healing!

Irish, It's hard to emotionally detach. I've never been able to do it. There are people on this site who can tell you how, so I hope they chime in. Eric, Grit, PEI, Snodderly, Puppy..can you guys give her a hand? I could use some tips in that area too. GAL doesn't seem to stop the thoughts of our spouses and the wanting. All the wanting...

Hey taylor.... and you too irish ....

Detaching is a process that takes time, and lord knows I'm not always there either. Read the resources, GAL, work on your own self esteem and sense of self worth. Read what you can about internal validation, detachement, self esteem, mutuality, unconditional love .... I really like the live strong site.

And ... the hard part. Make the choice. Don't be a victim of someone elses behaviour. You can make choices. If you haven't read Laura Munson's book yet I highly recommend it.

Peace
PEI

Hi taylor,
I am here for a moment but I have to leave for work in 15 min.
If you don't post I can check later.

IB and ITay

Time and committment is the answer IMO. Often we feel like we detach but then get pulled back in. It could be a simple look from our spouses. It could be an event..say birthday party..it could be our own "emotions" getting a hold of us.

For the record, it still happens to me. So what is one to do? You pick yourself and keep moving. You keep working on it.

I think I have finally realized that it will "just happen" - it really will. This ladies...it the "process".

Personally, I think we all need to feel that feeling of not being so detached. It keeps us human.

Remember, detaching does not mean that you no longer love the person. No...you can love someone and NOT agree with there actions.

So be gentle on yourself. Take it slow. Now as you know I am prone to say...get up, put on the big girl panties and keep going.

God Bless you both and have a great weekend.

Eric

I just want to STOP thinking about all the stuff that I want to have happen with our Marriage. Man, if I could just do that ONE thing, I'd be so much better off. The problem for me is that this whole R thing has left our marriage so unsettled, and because my M is such an important part of my life, it's affecting every other part of my life. I just feel that if I could feel better about what's happening with my M, the other parts would naturally fall into place. But I don't know how to do it..and the fear..the fear is eating me alive. I never knew how afraid I was..and when I really think about it..I have been for as long as I can remember. It's what's driving all of my behavior..good and bad..mostly the bad.

That is the question my C keeps asking me....what is it that you are afraid of??

I, too, have fear eating away at me. I can't exactly put my finger on what it is.

Is it the fear of being alone? I don't think so....I enjoy having time to myself.

I think it boils down to loneliness. The difference of being alone and being lonely.

There is that empty 'feeling'....the feeling of not being complete...if that makes any sense.

I know we are suppose to move on and gal, but a lot of days I just want that part of me that is missing back!......maybe that is the fear.....the fear that no matter what we do, we may never get back our missing piece??!!

I just don't know.

((((Itay)))

I have always had my own sense of self and have been strong and self reliant, but I think even in the best of cases, over the long haul, we become somewhat dependent on our identity as "the spouse of . . . . ."

Even if we are the one who wants the divorce, you still have some intertwined identity issues to work out. I know I do.

Time, and time can go so slowly.

For me..I think the fear is living the rest of my life without my H in it. If that makes any sense. I know I would be ok on my own, could find someone else, find things to do with my time when I am alone, etc. But, the fear for me is that we will both go our own ways and I will always be missing him, thinking about what he's doing, remembering the hopes and dreams we had.

I don't feel like I'm "the spouse of..." I know I have my own identity. It's just that I built this dream, this life we would have together..in my own mind...and I want that. I always felt that we could get thru anything together, could be so happy as we grew old together..the key word being "together".

Anyway, I have a question for all of you. I told you guys that we went to see the new MC a week ago. He was awesome. We both really liked him. When we left, the MC told us not to talk about our session for two days..just to digest all that we talked about. Well, you know how that goes, we talked about it a little, but not as much as we would have if he hadn't told us not to. The new MC also told us that when we talked about the session on Wednesday, to then decide if we wanted to make another appt and come back. I asked him about his schedule and the possibility of getting on a regular rotating weekly appt schedule. He said he didn't see a problem with that. Well, my H and I talked on Wed. and decided to go back, so I called and talked to his secretary and told her that we wanted to get on a weekly schedule. I asked about Mondays at 6:00 pm..she said she'd have to talk to the MC and get back to me on that. She left me a msg on Saturday and told me that the MC said to wait until the 18th when our next appt is and that he would talk to us about the weekly schedule then. My question is this: do you think that the MC said that because he doesn't think there is any hope of us working this out and that there is no reason to plan for a weekly schedule at this time? Or am I looking too deeply into it? The guys is VERY VERY busy..so maybe he wanted to get a feel for how much help we were going to need before we talked about future dates..my thinking was that it would be better to set aside the dates as far in advance as possible so we could get a time..since he's got so many people wanting to get into see him. But maybe he saw something when we were there and just doesn't think we have a chance to make it work between us. I don't know why I think that. It just seems weird to me that the MC wouldn't be more open to me setting aside future dates when he knows that his schedule is so full, unless there is some other reason. He is a pretty smart guy..has a PHD in Psychology and is a speaker and trainer for other psychologists. Teaches at the local college.

And sorry..one other question..I set up 3 dates to see him this month (these are not a weekly-type time slot, just random openings he had)..my H just told me he will be out of town for one of them..do you think I should ask him if I could go alone to that one..or would that seem like I was trying to bias the overall tone? There are some questions that I'd like to ask privately..things I can do to help move things forward, things not to do, midlife crisis questions, etc.

GG..I know exactly what you are saying..it's the "missing" piece that makes me afraid too. Afraid I may never find that again, afraid that we will stupidly do something to destroy that special and unique togetherness we shared, afraid to think about coming home to an empty house every single day for the rest of my life, afraid that I may have to live like my many friends who don't have a significant other in their lives, afraid of who I will become if I don't have my other half, afraid of abandonment, afraid of having to start over. Fear is so all-consuming. I asked my H if he had to choose fear or resentment, which would he choose..he said "either, I have lived with both my whole life". That's sad. I have not always lived with fear. And I certainly dont have much in the way of resentment. I'm still trying to find info on resentment. I guess that's a topic for the MC.

L,

Your MC isn't going to tell you if he thinks your M can be saved after just one session with you.

I'm inclined to believe it's because he would like to see you some more before he makes up his mind how often he feels he needs to see you.

Look at the other side. Maybe he feels he won't have to see you as often as once a week because he has an inkling that it won't take that much to get your M back on track.

As far as your second question. Do you know if this MC is well versed in MLC?

All you can do is ask the MC. He'll let you know if he doesn't think it's a good idea to see you alone. Do you think your H would have a problem with it and worry that you'd have a 'one up' with the MC if you saw him solo?

Seeking..I am worried about my H having a problem with me seeing the MC alone, too. I don't want to do anything stupid to jeopardize the sessions because I want to be able to continue to go to this guy. My H and I were seeing another guy and he and I went separately and also together (twice) and it didn't work out to continue to see him..one of the reasons being that my H felt he was biased in my favor because of the things I told him in our private sessions. I guess I'll ask the new MC if he was wanting to see us separately at all and that my H would not be able to make the appt on the 25 and if he did want to see us separately, that would be a good one for me to attend. Keep it all up front and honest.

I agree with you that it would be too early for the new MC to decide on the frequency of meeting times based on one session..especially since the MC did most of the talking at that 2 hour session and we never really got into much of the reason why we were there..nothing was mentioned about the A at that time, even tho I did refer to "a year ago" and "since last Nov" when I answered his questions. The MC said at the end, that he intentionally didn't ask what happened a year ago or in Nov. and that we would talk about that if we decided to return. I'm pretty sure he has a good idea of what happened, just based on the answers we gave, even tho it wasn't specifically stated that my H had had an A.

I'd actually like to see the guy twice a week..I'm kinda kidding and then again..kinda not. He's pretty smart and really gives you lots to think about. As a matter of fact, I'd like to tape the sessions or at least take notes cuz I can't remember all the stuff he says later..and I want to!

L,Based on what you said about seeing previous guy alone and how your H felt about it, I'd say don't jeopardize it by seeing him alone. If your H keeps wanting to see him that's more than half the battle right there.

If your H starts refusing to go then I'd check into seeing whether the MC will see you by yourself.

seeking..thanks for the good advice. I think I'll take it!!

I'll ask the new MC in front of my H if he wants to see us alone at any point..and then if he says yes, I'll mention the 25th..otherwise I'll cancel it and just keep going together.

Excellent idea!

Have any of you guys noticed that there are several people who you thought were your really good friends, aren't really? The reason I say this is because I have briefly explained some of what is happening with my marriage and most of them have not even bothered to call and see how I'm doing. I think that's weird.

I have a small support group..my bro, my BFF and another really close girlfriend who I talk to at least a couple of times a week, if not daily and they actually call me to see how I'm doing. The other friends that I'm speaking of, know that I'm going thru a really rough time as a result of conversations we've had while exchanging Xmas greetings, etc..and haven't heard from them since. Maybe they don't feel comfortable asking about it. I just know that if they were going thru this, I would be calling to show my support. But I guess we're all different.

L,

I was thinking (I do that sometimes) maybe you could run it by your H first and ask him if this MC offers separate sessions how he would feel about each of you meeting with MC both together and alone.

That would at least show your H you are considering how he would feel about meeting with the MC alone and show him that you're not ganging up on him if he had equal time.

Just an idea. Maybe some others will have a different perspective and opinions.

I am not sure you want my opinion but here goes.

I went to 6 months of MC. We finally quit when my W refused to work on our marriage and we really were not accomplishing anything.

My wife used the counseling to justify her desires to get a divorce.

I think in retrospect no MC can do much with someone who is in MLC. Maybe MWD as they seem to be very experienced at it here. Both parties have to be commited to trying to fix the marriage for MC to work. In DB'ing one person can work on the marriage by themselves.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

Have any of you guys noticed that there are several people who you thought were your really good friends, aren't really? The reason I say this is because I have briefly explained some of what is happening with my marriage and most of them have not even bothered to call and see how I'm doing. I think that's weird.

I have a small support group..my bro, my BFF and another really close girlfriend who I talk to at least a couple of times a week, if not daily and they actually call me to see how I'm doing. The other friends that I'm speaking of, know that I'm going thru a really rough time as a result of conversations we've had while exchanging Xmas greetings, etc..and haven't heard from them since. Maybe they don't feel comfortable asking about it. I just know that if they were going thru this, I would be calling to show my support. But I guess we're all different.

Hi Taylor,
How are you doing?
I can see by your posts that your in a place you want to be but
don't want to be. You are glad that you are both seeing a C but
are frustrated with the process.
About the friends thing, you will know who your true friends are
through this. The friends that don't want to know how you are doing are either scared or don't want to get involved. You will know who they are. The ones that don't want to get involved have
no clue what this is all about. Realize that this is heavy sh!t
for most. I never knew how this could be such a nightmare. I really believe not many could handle this going on in their life.
It takes special people to see this for what it is and then live
their life to work at some kind of a sanity for themselves.
I know about free will from God but it just seems like this is
a test put in front of us to be better. Not that we were not
very good before, but gee, could we not have at least had a "heads up" first. Guess it would not matter anyway because this was going to happen no matter what. I can see that now and it doesn't make it any easier but it does make more sense on something that did not make any sense at bomb. That my friend, is
a good thing! It verifies it is the MLC'r not us. We get this
opportunity to look at ourselves and face our demons too. Forget
about it not being fair. I could list a million things that are not fair in a sinful world.
We get this on our plate for now. The LBS's that report back say
it was the best thing for them. That is a tough pill to swallow.
We will get through this and we are going to be better in the end.
My W and I have separate sessions with IC. It works better for
us because he helps her face her demons. With me present, all it
does is help her put her mask on and spew. The lies that come out
do not help at all but the C knows this and just lets W vent.
I don't get to vent. Never get to vent. Probably will not get to vent. I don't know what to recommend to you and would be a little
hesitant to do that. But feel free to ask me anything I will do my best to help you.

Warrior..long time since I've heard from you..thanks for checking up on me.

I, too, believe that not everyone is capable of getting thru this thing in one piece. The MLC, I mean. It takes an ornery SOB to stick this beast out and win!!! It would be just my luck to give up, find someone else and then have to go thru it with them!! Story of my life..haha. But I jest, because I am not going to give up. I almost have a couple of times, tho. And just recently even. I didn't post it (or maybe I did..losing my mind) but on July 24th we sat down and divided everything up. I had told him the night before that this just wasn't working for me and that he didn't seem to be trying at all and I couldn't handle it anymore. I really was ready to be done. So, he said we should just divorce then. Well, after seeing it all down on paper, he changed his mind and has been trying. So, not sure what that says..but I guess we'll see. It's not intolerable by any means. He is cordial and we do things together; we watch movies, have a glass of wine on the deck, laugh, we talk about all the stuff under the sun, he kisses me goodnight, etc. Not sure if he will be able to get the emotional and physical intimacy back or not. But I owe it to us to let him try. What else do I have to do anyway..haha. So, I'm just doing my thing. Exercising, working out in the yard, looking for a job, doing stuff with my kids, reading my fiction, keeping up my home..all the normal things a normal person does. Even tho we're not normal..yet.

Lance..I think a MC that is skilled in behavior techniques and why people do the things they do, can help a person in MLC. At the very least they can help the LBS understand what is happening and how they can move forward. Sort of like all you guys help..only face to face. Sometimes I can be really obtuse, so it helps to have it spelled out to me face to face. I think the reason is that I tend to think that everyone thinks like I do..so when I try to reason it out in my mind, I reason it out in a way that makes sense to me because that is what I would say, do, think..etc. But at this late stage in life, I have come to realize that no one thinks like me cuz we're all unique. Duh. Why I didn't deduce that many years ago, I'll never know. Like Michelle W-D says, if what you're doing isn't working, try something different..so we are.

No question that a MC can help you.
Just don't have any expectations that it will save your marriage.

Taylor,

I am going to post because you asked me to, but I can guarantee you up front, you are not going to like what it is that I have to say.

First, congratulations that your H has decided to work on the M.

You need to be very careful. I agree with the others, I am very skeptical. But I am skeptical of you more than your H.

You said you couldn't be happy, GAL, blah, blah, blah, because your M was in shambles.

Well, now it seems to maybe be heading in a better direction, you have found other things to complain and worry about. Who your real friends are, what the MC thinks, that this is not happening as fast as you want it to.

You have actually done some stuff for you, highlights, happy emails with family, new clothes.

Tell me why you didn't do those things before, when your H was not wanting you? Those are things you should have been doing, to help you feel better.

You came here looking for the quick fix. You are still looking for ways to move this forward for your H. (ie, CONTROL) You got lucky. He responded to the LRT, in the way you wanted. (ie, ULTIMATUM and CONTROL)

What would you really have done if the answer had been different because it still could be you know?

Would you have been angry and bitter? I am gonna guess yes. I don't believe that you really would have been ok with the other option. Maybe you would have lived with it, but I don't think you would have been ok.

Honey, 9 months, is like a day in the life around here. Nine months is nothing.

If you can't get your life together for you, whether you are with your H or someone else, you are always going to be making yourself happy, based on the fact that you have someone that you think wants you. When it is all said and done...

Are you really going to want you?

The talk about alone and lonliness, if you don't want to be with yourself, who is really going to want to be with you?

I see lots of room for a ton of self growth here.

Good luck with your future IT. I hope it turns out as you would like.

Hey Cat, thanks for your response. You are right in many ways..and wrong in some others. Which is perfectly understandable because no matter how much I type here, it's not the same as seeing the whole picture unfold by being here in real life. There just isn't enough time in the day to explain all of my thoughts and actions..or his or the MCs. You have only what I type to try to understand. Sometimes when I write here, it's just rambling..a way to dump the overwhelming thoughts running around my head. Other times it's to get opinions about what to do. As far as I can tell, everyone does that here. It's hard to know which is which...am I rambling..or am I stuck and asking for help? I've found myself having reactions to other people's threads where I can see that what they are doing might be detrimental or destructive to them and their M. I understand how you (me, anyone) come to conclusions based on what someone has typed out.

The other thing is..that situations and feelings seem to change from day to day with all of this. So, maybe last week I was floundering around without a clear objective, and since then I have been able to sort thru some if it to see myself and my sitch in a different light. The more I read and talk to people, the stronger I become. Of course this is a process..of course there are days when I will take more steps backwards than I do forward.. of course I will grow and by doing so, learn and become a different person.

I've come to some conclusions too..there are alot of things I need to work on in regards to myself. Some were pointed out by my H, some by you guys, some by my IC, some by my kids and close friends/family, and some I just figured out by myself. I have begun researching to learn more about how I can change those things I don't like about myself. Internet, books, and talking to people who know, and who know me. I read a book when this all started called.."My husband's affair was the best thing that ever happened to me". And I now believe that too. It sucks, and it hurts, and I wish I could have learned these things in a different way..but I've accepted that this is the way I'm going to learn them..and have begun the process of change.

Yes, control is an issue for me..something I plan to address with this new MC. And also abandonment anxiety and where that comes from. You guys have no way of knowing my family history and it's too long to type out. But just know that I'm aware of it and am dealing with it. And I could go on and on about some of the other things I have decided needed to be addressed..but you get the picture.

As for a quick fix..sure I came here hoping I could find an answer and live happily ever after..who didn't? But as this process evolved, I realized that I needed to change too, for this to work between my H and I. I still have "fear" and that is driving so much of what I do these days. That is definately something that needs to be changed. No one should live with fear. I'm not real sure, but I would guess that I have always had it, since I was a kid..but it ebbed and flowed so I couldn't really put a finger on it..until now. And yes, I have a different attitude since my H has been trying..but I don't think the answer was the LRT thing..when I told him that day that I couldn't live like this anymore, I had really come to believe that and I was ready to be done if that's what needed to happen. I can't explain all the things that led me to feel that way but it wasn't a ploy to get him to try harder. I was actually surprised when he told me he was going to try..I thought it was done. Yes, I would have been incredibly sad, and yes it would have taken me years to come to terms with it..but I just couldn't look at him anymore and want what we used to have so badly..I just couldn't do it anymore. I felt like I was cheating myself and him out of having a happy life. So, I'm glad that he's trying..but I hope you know that I'm not expecting some miraculous turnabout..at least not overnight. Maybe we can move forward slowly with the help of an actual MC and maybe we'll just gain some skills to use in future relationships. But at least I'm not sitting around crying, flailing around, paralyzed with fear and self doubt. "Paralyzed" being the keyword there. I'm a good, strong person and I have alot to offer the people who know and love me. And even the people who don't know me. And yes, I'm guessing some of my calm has come from the fact that he is trying..but most of it has come from just going thru the process. And it's far from over yet. Lots of work left to do. And it helps that I've lost 50 lbs and feel terrific about that!!!

Please don't ever be afraid to comment.. whether you think I'll like it or not. This is a learning process and who doesn't want to be a better person..I'll take what rings true and put the other stuff in a little room in my brain for future consideration.

Oh, Cat..forgot one thing..

I am a worrier..not really a big complainer..but I do worry about things..most of them are things that are out of my control so it's futile anyway. But it's always been a big part of my overall personality. Again..family history..but like the AA creed says..I just need to accept the things I cannot change..and figuring out how to do that is hard hard hard. Now if I could just figure out how NOT to analyze things to death. Worry and microscope analysis are a bad combo.

That microscope is good to use in things that you can change though.

Daddy..ummm, where did you come from?

Daddy..I agree that a microscope is good to use to change things that I can change..but if you spend so much time analyzing every little nuance, then you're not really living life..you're studying it. Both my H and I do that. Always wondering why the other person is doing this or that..what is the hidden meaning..instead of just accepting it and letting the other be who they are..mayeb asking why they did something that you don't understand. But we spend way too much time trying to figure out why they did it and really never know for sure anyway. It's better to ask and get the real answer and then move on to something else.

Perception is a big thing too..my H and I are both having "mis"perceptions and letting that drive our behavior.

BTW..I'm not trying to be Miss Psychologist know it all..these are things that were pointed out by our new MC last week. He actually opened my eyes to alot of things in just the two hours we were there. Made alot of sense to both of us.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

Daddy..I agree that a microscope is good to use to change things that I can change..but if you spend so much time analyzing every little nuance, then you're not really living life..you're studying it. Both my H and I do that. Always wondering why the other person is doing this or that..what is the hidden meaning..instead of just accepting it and letting the other be who they are..mayeb asking why they did something that you don't understand. But we spend way too much time trying to figure out why they did it and really never know for sure anyway. It's better to ask and get the real answer and then move on to something else.

Perception is a big thing too..my H and I are both having "mis"perceptions and letting that drive our behavior.

I can use the microscope on myself. Many of us did "mind reading" and applied the microscope to others, and it did nothing but drive us crazy. We probably did get to be able to guess it right alot of times, but that is a lot of time and energy.

If there is something new I need to forge about myself, soimething that requires a new process or some changes. I did find it was a good thing to use the microscope on myself while building up this new capacity or adjusting it.

Taylor - I read the same book and thought it was good as well:)

ya, mind reading isn't really what it's cracked up to be..unless you're Sookie Stackhouse and can do it for real..and even then you probably won't know the reason behind the thought..which is the important thing anyway. It all goes back to that thing..we can't change anyone but ourselves.

Perceptions play such a big role in how we interact with others. A good for-instance was when I thought that my H was searching dating websites for a younger woman to have kids with him. I thought this because I found a cookie in the temporary history files on my computer that said "dating.com". Now, I'm not saying he didn't maybe press enter on one of the dating resources from a drop down menu on his MSN home page..but the leap from maybe doing that to believing that he had signed up for Eharmony or one of those things was a pretty big leap. And once I jumped, I imagined all sorts of weird things..him sneaking around, acting all guilty when he came home later than he said he would, etc. And then I started acting different too..based on my perception. All the more reason why detaching is such a better idea than getting hung up on what "they" are doing and why. Because in the end..it doesn't really matter anyway. If he had joined a dating club or whatever you call it, there wasn't anything I could have done about it. He'd just find better ways to hide his behavior. And then it becomes a game to see who can outsmart who..who can play the game better. Yuck. who wants to live like that. That's actually why I threw in the towel that day..cuz I didn't want to live like that. And when I talked to him about it, he ADAMENTLY told me that he did not, would not EVER join a dating club. He could find women on his own, he didn't need to pay to do it. Of course he had to add that he has PLENTY of opportunity to be with women if he wants because they make themselves available to him..gag..but he hasn't done it, except for that one A. I believed him and we talked about it like two adults and then decided to keep muddling thu this thing..just like a big muddy bog..muddling..slow..exhausting..you get lost sometimes and have to ask for help..but there is that little light off in the distance.

where is everyone tonight?

What the hell am I, chopped liver?

well of course not..but we were over on your thread, not here. I was shimmi-ing back and forth and not getting anything over here. Boo effin hoo.

Gonna go and read now. I'll talk to you guys tomorrow.

I kinda miss the boys..Jack, Mach, Eric, Grit, Allen, Lance, Warrior, Bradley..where have you been?

and puppy..can't forget puppy.

Taylor,
Just reading everything and anything I can get my eyes on.

ITay

I am sorry I have been away for a while dealing with some of my own personal issues. How are things for you? How is the therapy going? Remember...slow....very slow....

God Bless,
Eric

geez Taylor ... don't miss us girls at all huh? maybe we are chopped liver punkin, JK ....

I am here too, been reading along.

I have one small request. when you write big long blocks of type hit the return key every once in a while. It makes it easier to read.

I don't post too much at night, except on little fridays.

You need to study some of the stuff you have already been given. Ask questions. This is a marathon not a sprint.

Originally Posted By: LanceSijan

You need to study some of the stuff you have already been given.

Yup!

One day at a time ...

Peace
PEI

Warrior Shadow

You never answered my question on GAG's thread. You asked me a question and I want to answer it. What happened?

I miss you too PEI. It's been wonderful having you guys backing me up. I do appreciate all of the support everyone has to offer.

How do you all keep up with the many friends you've made here? I keep finding more stories and make comments, follow along, but it's hard to keep up. Is there any easy way to keep track when someone comments on one of your comments?

Eric..things are ok. Nothing big to report. We don't have our next C session until Aug 18. The guy is hard to get into I guess. I was assured that once things started moving along, it would get easier to make regular appts.

It is slow going..and I'm just kinda letting it be. I have alot of other things to keep me busy. This job hunting thing has turned into a full time job itself!

Lance..your request is noted..I will try to break up the long blocks.

What is a little friday?

Its a process just like everything else.
I spend a lot of time reading these days.
After all, you have the gift of time.

I don't have any magic buttons although there are things up above that can help you in "active topics" "my stuff"

Lance trying to do alt right now. Suffering from newbie life crisis NLC. Can't figure out the navigation yet.

Lance, PEI..is there something in particular that you think I should study? I have been reading the resources, at least the ones I could link to. And I have been re-reading DR and DB, and I have been reading other threads to see what is recommended or suggested for them. I have not benn asking too many questions cuz I don't know what to ask. Nothing is really happening right now.

Maybe I should ask..what would you guys suggest I focus on in our upcoming MC session. It is only session 2 and I am guessing will be the one where we tell him how we got where we are today. The first session he did most of the talking..explaining how and why we do the things we do..how we handle conflict..what conflict is, etc. Should I let my H tell the sordid details?

LT - Your answer is where I am telling WS to look.

WS - Once you have your log on type in DB (fully written out) you should find a link for it and become a fan of that page.

Let me know when you have done that. Right away.

Warrior..what is newbie life crisis? And when are you gonna start your own thread?

Quote:

I'm just kinda letting it be

Good approach!

Re: your comment of what you should read - where or what do YOU think you need to improve? I can tell you to read a host of M books but what I really think that you need to really figure out what things about yourself you want to change and work on those. Why? You and YOUR H would benefit.

Just my 2 cents.

Eric

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

I miss you too PEI. It's been wonderful having you guys backing me up. I do appreciate all of the support everyone has to offer.

How do you all keep up with the many friends you've made here? I keep finding more stories and make comments, follow along, but it's hard to keep up. Is there any easy way to keep track when someone comments on one of your comments?

I scan the forum pretty much daily, watching and reading, even if I'm not posting. Life gets in the way sometimes ... thank God! In the beginning I was litterally here for HOURS everyday. Now I am living a much more balanced existence ... most days

You can watch certain threads or posters, and I also go back and check my posts to see if anyone has commented after me. Oh, and the alt ... I keep up with some of them over there too.

You'll figure out what works for you ...

If I were you, I'd take Lance's advice ... get reading the resources and books ... I noticed that you said you hadn't yet read about 180s or about reminding your H about happy times etc. Frankly, those are some of the basics ... and to fully understand the advice you are getting here takes an understanding of, and knowledge of, some of the basic DB philosophies. You are right in that each sitch is individual yet there are similiarities and generalities that tend to apply across the board.

Peace
PEI

Lance..my log in for Facebook or for this forum? I'm confused.

When you say type in "DB" do you mean type in just those two letters or type in Divorce Busting..cuz you said fully written out?

Think I am a fan now.

I would let the MC guide the session ... give up that control and trying to figure out what to say and how to say it and if you should say it and what to focus on .....

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

Maybe I should ask..what would you guys suggest I focus on in our upcoming MC session.

Listening. REALLY listening. And validating. No excuses, no defences, no reasons ...

PEI

PEI..I'm not so much into the alts..FB is my only alt, I guess, aside from my home private email. But I'm new to forums as well, so it's enough to concentrate on how to get around here..FB is more than I really want to deal with. It's good for personal msgs since we can't send them on this forum, but remembering all those signons and stuff is just too much work.

I'm going to ask if I can record the sessions. I find that so much is happening and gets said, that when it's all over, I can't remember everything and it frustrates me because I feel like I might be missing important pieces. My H has a bit of a photographinc memory..and also remembers everything he hears..even tho what he remembers is somewhat skewed to being what he wants to hear. So I can ask him, which is what I did last time..and he ended up thinking I was reiterating the session so I could explain to him what was said and why. I had to tell him it was because I couldn't remember all the details and that I was actually asking him to fill in the blanks.

I have been having some memory problems lately..concerns me somewhat since both my mom and maternal grandma had/have Alzheimers. I prefer to think so much was going on, my head was spinning.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

Warrior..what is newbie life crisis? And when are you gonna start your own thread?

Good advice LT.

As far as MC it is a long process, the real question will come when your H is asked whether he wants to work on the marriage. And hif his actions follow suit with whatever he says.

Remember believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.

WS and LT check the alt

WS you are my tractor?

I have done some research about abandonment, anxiety, control, manipulation, communication, how I can be a better friend, mom, wife, sister. Right now I'm looking into fear and how to deal with that..since it's such a large part of what I'm feeling. These things take hours..literally. They are all not in one place, as I'm sure you know. It would be nice if you could just look something up and then read about it and then go do something else..like apply for jobs. But by the time I get done digging around for info about a particular topic and saving it for future reference, the day is over and I still have tons of regular life stuff to do..clean the house, groom my dogs, talk to kids. Whew!

lance,
yessir

ITay,

Quote:

Right now I'm looking into fear and how to deal with that..since it's such a large part of what I'm feeling. These things take hours..literally. They are all not in one place, as I'm sure you know.

Patience is going to be key. Reconciling a M is not easy and takes time. You seem to be in a rush and trust me I can understand; however, time is really on your side. Rushing things will not resolve all of the issues, which must be addressed. So for now IMO, slow down a bit. Stop trying to figure everything out and find the one bullet that will make it all go back to normal. IMO, you are setting yourself up for failure. Your M may be restored and will probably look and feel different, which is what you want. The look and feel will take time. I am sure that you guys did not date for a month of two and then get married. So really...sit back...breath and just let God do his work.

Eric

PEI..I'm probably not really understanding "validating". What exactly do you mean by that?

I used to think I was the most patient person on the planet..this has been a big lesson in patience for me. I realize that I'm not so patient as I thought..as Jack has so eloquently pointed out..many times.

And yes, I would like to wake up tomorrow and have it all just be good..but I'm realistic and know that's not going to happen. My H is into the slow recovery..it's just frustrating for me, I guess. He's not the one who's gone for a year and a half with no intimacy whatsoever. I'm getting better..at least it's making more sense to me now. And I can live without touching him for a little while longer..if I have to. That was kind of a joke..kinda sorta.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

PEI..I'm probably not really understanding "validating". What exactly do you mean by that?

Try this link:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=284040&page=1

ok..looked at the validating link. It makes sense and I was surprised to see that I have done alot of it already. Of course, I've done alot of other stuff that hasn't been all that great but it's nice to see that I'm doing some of the right things! yaaaaayyyyy!!!

hey Taylor, I don't want to be the party pooper ... but ....

Truly learning how to listen and validate is a skill that takes time to build. Really read the resources ... over and over again until they become a part of who you are and how you operate. Unfortunately, doing some things right gets 'cancelled out' very quickly by doing something wrong. Many positives can be obliterated by even a single negative sometimes ... and conversely, it can take many, many positives to override a negative. Fair? Nope. Reality? Yep.

In the beginning I thought I was giving my H space, was I? Nope. But I thought I was. I thought I was loving unconditionally, I thought I was validating, etc .... was I? NO. My intentions were good, but it takes time to understand, truly understand, the depth of some of this stuff. Now, I not saying you don't ... just that if I were you, I wouldn't be too quick to gloss over something and put a checkmark beside it - Yep, doing that!

I wish the best for you, but frankly, I share a lot of Cat's concerns. Keep doing the work, keep digging, keep reading ...

Peace
PEI

PEI, excellent post.

Taylor not to hit you with a 2x4 but the link I gave you for the validation is the second time it was given to you.
Cadet gave you some excellent links at the start of your first thread.
It was in the link with the stages of the LBS.
Thats how I went to go find it.
There is lots of information in all these links.
I have spent hours(really weeks) reading them all.
The whole thread with all the comments, and all the additional links that they take you to.
Some of this information is not what you need now but you must be able to go back to it and re-read it when you need it.

I've read them for months and still haven't retained all the info. I still learn something each day. I'm trying to learn how not to let my emotions control my words now.

ITay / 2G

Quote:

I still learn something each day. I'm trying to learn how not to let my emotions control my words now.

Did either of you learn how to ride a bike? I assume yes...do you remember that experience? I would bet yes (neither of you are that old LOL).

Detachment, DBing, validating � learning these things take time. You will feel like you have detached and then all of sudden get dragged back in. So back to the bike analogy...

So like bike riding�you will fall a few times�..just pick yourself up and get back on the bike and keep going.

God Bless,
Eric

Quote:

You will feel like you have detached and then all of sudden get dragged back in.

100% right.

I felt I was detached from Oct-March. I was GAL, I was feeling good. But my way of GAL, going out on Fri or Sat nites with my GF's got him pissed, made him feel insecure, made him think I had another man. He moved out....

Now I'm back to the drawing board, I'm not detached, I begged pursued, cried. B/c it was different. I was detached when I knew we were in the same house and knew each others' plans and daily events. Now he's 2 hrs away and my head is spinning and I don't feel in control at all.

Now b/c I backslid all the way to the begging and crying, he's more done with our marriage than he ever was, and I'm not sure anything can fix it at all. He already has his appt set with a L to begin the D. Now I see no hope in sight.

PEI,

So, what you're saying is that you feel I am putting a check mark next to my skills at Validating and that I am quickly glossing over the subject of Validation..and you've come to that conclusion because of the comment I made saying that I'd read the thread recommended to me and I could see that I was doing some of those things already?

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. Help me to understand.

Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3

it takes time to understand, truly understand, the depth of some of this stuff.
Now, I not saying you don't ... just that if I were you, I wouldn't be too quick to gloss over something and put a checkmark beside it

This is exactly what she said, she said KEEP STUDYING! Keep learning

L,
I think what Pei is saying is that, and I may be wrong, but it's not like checking off a list of chores you have to complete before you get to go to the movies. Once you've put everything away, folded the clothes, washed the dishes, swept the floor, etc. "These are done now I'm through", type of stuff. They are chores that have to be repeated and refined over and over until you want to f*cking scream!

You are no different from the rest of us. At the beginning, we all wanted a date, time, hour, minute, second that this sh#t would be over and our life could get back to normal. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way. I myself have not had an opportunity to do any validation, as we are NC for the most part. He's had no "real" conversation with me. But I know that if and when it comes, it will be hard work, done over and over and over again each and every day forever amen.

There are times when I think it's not worth it. There are days I'm determined and strong and couragous about it. In the end, all you can do is say "Jesus take the wheel" and drive on.

Hope I didn't ramble.

Yes, Lance..I'm studying..I'm learning. I get that this is hard stuff and takes time, patience, understanding and alot of work.
IMO..A little encouragement goes a long way when you're learning a new skill..or feeling like you're doing so many things the wrong way. I'd rather that someone asked me what I was thinking if they weren't sure, instead of assuming something that wasn't true.

In no way would I ever want to give the impression that I knew all there is to know about ANY subject. But I have met people who think they know it all. I'll just say..I'm not one of those.

Thanks Punkin. I wasn't checking Validation off the list..and I was trying to figure out how I came off looking like I was. That's all. Anyway..no big deal.

It probably doesn't seem like it, but I really do know this is going to be a long haul. Do I want it to be over as soon as possible so we can move on with being happy and having a normal life? I'd be a glutton for pain if I said anything by YES.YES.YES!!! Am I willing to put in the work to get there? Without a shadow of a doubt. Do I know what I'm doing? Still got my training wheels on...and sometimes I can keep the bike steady. And when I do..then I want to tell everyone I know so they can be happy right there beside me.

I would answer those questions the same whether we stay together or go our separate ways. I'm trying to think in terms of "happy life" instead of "happy marriage". It's more healthy for me.

Taylor,

What have you been doing lately for you? How are you carrying yourself? What schedule have you set for yourself - what boundaries have you set for yourself? Are you giving yourself space to heal and to respect your H's need for space?

Just asking for an update - to catch up!

IB

L,
There is so much to learn so fast, and so much to absorb that is painful. You seem so eager to learn it and accomplish it and I applaud that. Just take care of You, because sometimes by trying to absorb too much too fast, we set ourselves up for more hurt, and if there is something here that we don't need, it's us hurting ourselves.

I also like what you said about thinking in terms of Happy Life over Happy Marriage. Because win, lose or draw, we each owe it to ourselves to create as Happy a Life as Possible.

Irish,

What am I doing for me? Well..

I have been reading non-self help books..some fiction that I've been wanting to read for a long time.

I'm exercising every single day..and really working hard at it.

I have been updating my resume and checking into classes. I also plan to bring my resume to the job service tomorrow to have them help me modernize it a little.

I've done some stuff around the house that has piled up while I was "waiting for my real life to begin". That's a song I like..BTW.

I have been talking to my girlfriends about fun stuff..not about the marriage or anything having to do with problems.

I have gone shopping and bought a new outfit..actually a couple of new outfits.

I have done some home spa stuff..facials, pedicures, manicures.

I invited my D here last weekend and we visited for 2 days about fun stuff. We made plans for her upcoming wedding.

I have smoked in the house...not alot but a little. Just because I wanted to.

I have laughed alot and tried to find more positive things than negative things.

I have spent alot of time here on this forum trying to offer encouragement because I think it's important to give back.

I've gone to church and lit candles.

I've spent some quality time with my little grandson.

And most of all I have been thinking of all the blesings in my life.

Those are things that make me happy.

How about you??

Oh and Irish..I have been giving my H space..and myself too. I asked him if we could not discuss anything about the R until we went to our new MC on the 18th. It has helped us to just be comfortable and have fun with each other. We flirt with each other now, because there's not that constant pressure.

Great list Taylor!

Honestly, I have been just trying to maintain some consistency and structure at home for my S. Been enjoying my D who moved back home. Visiting my other D at college.

I really haven't been accomplishing as much as I'd like to at home - not yet. But I am doing better at work - keeping it together.

I need to do a better job with my friends and family not discussing the situation.

I also need to do a better job with diet and exercise. Getting enough rest and such.

Bottom line - I'm not there yet. But for most of the day I don't tear up any longer - for that I am proud.

Taylor,

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

PEI,

So, what you're saying is that you feel I am putting a check mark next to my skills at Validating and that I am quickly glossing over the subject of Validation..and you've come to that conclusion because of the comment I made saying that I'd read the thread recommended to me and I could see that I was doing some of those things already?

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. Help me to understand.

As Lance pointed out, what I said was:

Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3

Truly learning how to listen and validate is a skill that takes time to build. Really read the resources ... over and over again until they become a part of who you are and how you operate. Unfortunately, doing some things right gets 'cancelled out' very quickly by doing something wrong. Many positives can be obliterated by even a single negative sometimes ... and conversely, it can take many, many positives to override a negative. Fair? Nope. Reality? Yep.

In the beginning I thought I was giving my H space, was I? Nope. But I thought I was. I thought I was loving unconditionally, I thought I was validating, etc .... was I? NO. My intentions were good, but it takes time to understand, truly understand, the depth of some of this stuff. Now, I not saying you don't ... just that if I were you, I wouldn't be too quick to gloss over something and put a checkmark beside it - Yep, doing that!

So, it's not an accusation Taylor, it was a warning. Based on personal experience as I also explained (and I would also like to point out that your post followed Lance's (re)posting of the resource thread by approx 16 minutes). If you truly want to learn about validation and see it in action, read missherlove's thread ... he is far better at validation then I will ever be.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

IMO..A little encouragement goes a long way when you're learning a new skill..or feeling like you're doing so many things the wrong way. I'd rather that someone asked me what I was thinking if they weren't sure, instead of assuming something that wasn't true.

Taylor, you've received nothing but encouragement. It just doesn't always come packaged in a way you want to hear it. Jack said to me once, and I'll repeat it here ... "I'm not your friend, I'm your support"... what I think he meant by that, was that he was here to tell me what he felt I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear.

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

It probably doesn't seem like it, but I really do know this is going to be a long haul. Do I want it to be over as soon as possible so we can move on with being happy and having a normal life? I'd be a glutton for pain if I said anything by YES.YES.YES!!! Am I willing to put in the work to get there? Without a shadow of a doubt.

Ok, Grit ... this ones for you ...

Taylor ... the real question is "Are you willing to put in the work even if it doesn't get you there?" Hmmmmmmmmm. That is a much tougher question to answer. I would hazard a guess that most of the posters on this board would say "Hell YEAH!" to doing the work necessary with a guarenteed outcome. But what if I told you that the real work was all about you? What if I told you that you that all the work you really need to do might not save your marriage .... would you still do it?

Originally Posted By: ltaylor

I would answer those questions the same whether we stay together or go our separate ways. I'm trying to think in terms of "happy life" instead of "happy marriage". It's more healthy for me.

This sounds good Taylor, now live up to what you wrote.

What I was really trying to point out was that this process is like an onion (nickle Shrek) and the layers just keep getting deeper and deeper. I'm not judging you. I'm hoping you can learn something from my experience, from Lance, from eric, from punkin ... from any of the people here on the boards ... ultimately that's why we're all here.

Peace
PEI

PEI

Spot on girly..and thank you for your response on my thread.

ITay - You know I have been where you are...I have and so have many others that post here.

- You see a glimmer of hope, that's good.
- You feel good, that's good.
- The crisis appears to be over, that is good.

Honey, I will keep telling you over and over...slow down...take it slow...

From your post it appears that you are WORKING SO HARD to �get it right�� working so hard to get back what you had. Man do I know what that's like.

You know, sometimes...doing nothing...is doing a lot.

This may be semantics...but one of your posts stood out to me. It made reference to learning a "new skill". I don't know what you meant by this and so I will give you my take from my PERSONAL experience.

When i arrived I did exactly some of the same things that it appears you are doing..I read and read so more. I thought I could "learn the tricks and apply the tactic" to get my W back - then I realized that tactics don't work. Tricks don't work.

Wanna know how I learned them�.I learned by rushing and then making things worse when I pushed. I learned by trying to turn things around in my timeline and then getting frustrated when it didn�t happen. I learned this by using tactic to push, control and (sorry you may not like this) subtly manipulate my W in the hope that she would have seen that I have changed. Then something profound happened. I realized that honestly I had not made some of the major changes that I really did want to make. Then I realized that holly chit these change really do take time. Then sweetie�I realized the biggest gift that I have ever received�that DBing is not a tactic�it is not a trick�it really is a way of life.

You are working so hard to save your H, to give him time so that he can snap out of it. You are doing this because you love your H. Consider this�.

To love something so much that you will do anything to keep it, is a sign that really what you may be dealing with is not love but rather codependence. To love something so much that all you want is what you want is usually a sign of an unhealthy R.

Now�..to love something so much that you will wait�that you will sit back, live your life, that you will do what you really want to do, that you will let it go and let what God wants to happen, happen in His time, to truly love it even when it decided to do something that YOU do not agree with�well IMO � that is Love.

And that love take time to rebuild, regrow, to allow the seed to blossom into a flower.

Itay, I soooo want your M to work�man if I could only look you in the eyes you�d see it. Trust me. Please honey�.take a look at YOU�and I mean really take a look at YOU.

Everytime you are going to do something for YOU I want you to stop for one second and ask yourself�.this one simple question�.

Is this really for me or am I really doing this because I think this will help get my H back. If the honest answer to yourself is�.for ME � then go for it. If the answer, is really I don�t �think or feel� like I want to do this but it may get my H back.. Then you are taking the wrong approach.

I am not a book, I am not a video tape�I am only a guys that has been through hell and I just want to make sure that you do not repeat the mistakes that I have made.

Time, patience�s, love, understanding, communication, peace � read all you want about them, true change comes from within � comes from a commitment that we make to our self � true change is really what DB is about � not tactics.

God Bless,
Eric

PEI & ERIC

Great posts both of you.

One thing that I have learned, and I will try to explain here.
Jack says "there are no tricks here in MLC"

I mostly agree with that however there is one trick.
All the instructions are written down in this forum exactly what one must do.
The "trick" is to listen to them all and follow EXACTLY what they say. No deviation, no half stepped try. You must listen to the advice you are given, verify it in the resources and other written material and carry it out.

Like Eric said sometimes the BEST advice is to do nothing.
If you are unsure what to do, it is the best advice.
Patience is something that is a must learn.

I say the single most important thing you must learn is detachment. I will stick by that advice.

Taylor we are all just trying to tell you that we have been in your shoes, been in the spot that you have been in. We have walked this journey and it is a long road.
You can do it too, you just start by putting one foot in front of the other and moving forward. You can do it,
No one here says you can't. No one is stopping you.
It is all up to YOU!

Knowledge is power.

Originally Posted By: eric

I realized the biggest gift that I have ever received�that DBing is not a tactic�it is not a trick�it really is a way of life.

Originally Posted By: eric

Time, patience�s, love, understanding, communication, peace � read all you want about them, true change comes from within � comes from a commitment that we make to our self � true change is really what DB is about � not tactics.

A-freaking-men.

Originally Posted By: eric

..and thank you for your response on my thread.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted By: lance

I say the single most important thing you must learn is detachment. I will stick by that advice.

I concur. Absolutely.

Peace
PEI

Well guys..not sure what to say except that I think I'm feeling differently about all this than you all think I am. I understand why you would since I have been all over the place these last couple of months.

I hear you saying that detachment is key. That doing stuff for me is key. To slow down on trying to "fix" things. That it isn't going to happen overnight. That I have alot yet to learn (that actually energizes me..cause I like to learn). I just want you guys to know that I get all that. I really do. I have read and read and listened and I understand.

I posted awhile back about the "calm" feeling that had come over me and it's still there. I don't know what happened to get me to that place, but it has put me in a different frame of mind. It didn't happen overnight as it appeared..it was a long process to get there. It has been very gradual..happening over the course of the past year and a half. I'm not saying I know it all, that I know things will work out for us or that we'll be ok. What I'm saying is that I know I will be ok. No matter what happens. And yes, I hope with all my heart that we can save this marriage, but I am not scrambling around thinking about nothing else besides "fixing it" "fixing him" anymore. I was..but I'm not now. I have also taken a break from reading the self-help marriage saving stuff..just because I needed a break. I just want to think about some other stuff for awhile. Not stop working on it or anything like that..but take the focus off of the R and the M for a little bit. The last nine months since the Bomb thing has just exhausted me. And yes I guess it helps that my H seems to be in a different frame of mind too..but I want you to know that I hear you when you tell me that he is not healed and there is plenty more to come on that front. I need to regroup to prepare for that..whatever "that" might be.

Someone said something about the crisis being over. The crisis is not over. In some ways it's just beginning. We are both different people now and if we decide to move forward with our marriage..it will be different too. And it needed to be. I love my husband and will keep trying as long as I want to. If I decide I don't want to do it anymore, then I will take the steps that I deem are right for me..and I hope he will do the same. I'm feeling pretty good, better than I have in a very long time. I'm learning alot about myself and that's always a good thing.

I had to reach a point where I backed off and reflected..I couldn't keep going the way I was. It was too much and would have sent me over the edge if I hadn't gotten a handle on it. We all come to these crossroads in our own time. I'm sure I'll run into alot more of them as I continue my journey. So, I hope you'll all continue to walk along with me and be my friends.

I'm good right now, really. Just taking a brain break.

It's been awhile since I've been on the boards. I hope everyone is doing well. I have read a few threads today, while I had a few minutes. I am still busy trying to fix up my resume and find a job. It takes most all of my time..in between mowing, cleaning, cooking, counseling, reading, exercising, errands, and babysitting my grandson when he doesn't have a daycare provider..which seems to be alot lately. I'm feeling good, things are about the same with my M..nothing much has changed.

I really like our new MC..we have seen him twice now and have another appt next Monday. I'm learning alot. I've been able to share some of the skills I'm learning with my kids as they seem to be going thru some stuff of their own with their significant others.

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood today. 75, sunny and a nice breeze. I have been outside most of the day.

I hope to be able to join Little Friday tonight. I have to drop off some stuff at my son's but should be home in time.

Hope all is well with my friends here.

L,

Glad to see you back. Going on the alt, man, I don't know. After what I went through on Facebook, it's sort of like having an aversion to a food after you barf it up. Don't think I can go there yet. Check out my latest post. See how my day went.

Good to hear from you.

Sounds like things are moving in a positive direction for you, as much as they can.

Good luck with the job. It took me quite awhile to find a "regular" job. Still it was an adventure. I hope it goes smoothly for you.

HUGS

Taylor,

Quote:

I had to reach a point where I backed off and reflected..I couldn't keep going the way I was. It was too much and would have sent me over the edge if I hadn't gotten a handle on it. We all come to these crossroads in our own time. I'm sure I'll run into alot more of them as I continue my journey. So, I hope you'll all continue to walk along with me and be my friends.

I'm good right now, really. Just taking a brain break.

We all talk about detachment here. It's different for everyone, easier for some to get to, and for the rest of us, incremental.

Yet, each step is our worthy goal, after which things come into focus a little more. A "brain break" sounds like a pretty good step in the right direction.

Good work.

If I could say one thing, it would be that each time you feel like you've detached, you should understand and expect that there will continually, forever, never-ending, be one more thing that will pull part of it out from under you and that you'll have to rebuild detachment again. The good news is that you get more detached every time and the more detached you are, the better you DB, and the better you are inside.

It doesn't mean you don't love. It means that you can love from afar and let another go their own way, regardless of your situation, however heavy that cross might be to bear. Regardless of their actions. Regardless of other peoples judgments.

Detachment isn't a switch one throws. It is a build-able aspect of our personality which grows as we do. We can contribute to it, or fight it. Others can impact it, but we are ultimately in charge of it. E.g. parents of drug addicts must decide to build this aspect of their personality or not. Either way it is excruciating for them. It's the same for us.

I really like the phrase "brain break!" Good stuff, good work! As you rebuild your ideas about your R, refer to your brain break and keep yourself sane!

Best of luck with the job.

(Miss ya Grace.)

Punkt

Originally Posted By: Punkt

Detachment isn't a switch one throws. It is a build-able aspect of our personality which grows as we do. We can contribute to it, or fight it. Others can impact it, but we are ultimately in charge of it. E.g. parents of drug addicts must decide to build this aspect of their personality or not. Either way it is excruciating for them. It's the same for us.

This is a pearl of wisdom on detachment...

Thanks Punkt.

Punkt ( are we related?)

Really good stuff about the constant, never-ending work at detachment. It seems many of us who were, for the most part, working well at getting better, had the rug pulled out from under us recently with a vengence!

I keep reminding myself. I will retain my dignity and continue to treat him with same. Sometimes easier said than done.

Taylor,
Have not seen you for a while.
Started a thread finally.
Hope you are doing ok.
I keep seeing that things still appear ok with
you and your sitch.
I think it is very wise for you to check in here
once and a while. No matter where you are in this,
it makes sense to stay connected. I pray that it
stays positive for you.