Starting a new thread..
Last thread So..I wonder how you can DB in the midst of getting divorced? My feelings of hurt and anger and really, rage, are keeping me from having any positive feelings towards H right now.
My lawyer shared H's lawyer's email for temporary demands...H wants a lot of $$ each month for the next 3 months until the permanent maintenance(alimony) is decided..I don't have the amount he wants left over each month so that blew me away...
He wants to split half of our joint money market which we both had agreed was for the kids' college funding. H promised all along before,during and after separation that the kids come first...well I guess not. I think that is the thing the enrages me and hurts the most...that I really believed through all this MLC crap that being a good father was the one thing that hadn't or wouldn't change.
My lawyer says this is like the first pawn move in chess and they are asking for everything...but it still upsets me that he would go after the kids' money.
I can't feel anything compassionate about H right now. I really hate him right now. I don't know how to be compassionate for someone who is making actions that will further hurt our children.
I just feel stupid for believing there was a core of goodness in him, some level of decency underneath.
I just feel heartbroken. I don't care what happens to him now. I know that these feelings are fresh and will change..I'll find my balance again..just blown away right now.
Typical lawyer games. They go for the throat first, so that there is room to negotiate down to what they really want. Try not to take it so personally, even though it is hard.
You do have to step back and take a breath for sure and calm down. Alot of it is lawyer speak, and purposefully meant to freak you out.
Let your attorney do the talking and listen to him very closely. Anger is a natural human emotion, and it's ok for awhile. Just do NOT let it be the basis for good decisions.
Sorry you are in this mess. You did not ask for it. Lots of shoulders here.
It's tough but you have to separate the D process from everything else and treat it like business, nothing more.
I know right now that seems difficult but you can do this.
Lawyers play a game, $100 letters, $50 phone calls, and the list goes on and on. You need to learn this game and how it's played.
Soco is correct they will ask for much more at first to give them room to negotiate down to what they will accept.
You need to fight the urge to talk "business" with your H.
DON'T. Do not mention a word to him. NEVER.
You can't afford to reveal your hand or get caught up in a he said she said back and forth pointless discussion.
Leave it to your lawyer to handle your "business."
Lawyers are NOT the law. Do not get intimidated and do NOT give ground. Now is the time to really look out for you.
This sucks big time, you will go through a range of emotions, make sure you use your head and not your emotions to make decisions. It will get better. Many of them will have to travel down every dead end road including following through with the D before they realize it doesn't fix a damn thing.
Stay strong.
Thanks for the common sense...it sure goes away quickly when you're hit with crazy demands...
The fact that H didn't specify to his lawyer that the joint account was the kids' money and not to be split still bothers me though. But I will not bring it up.
Thanks for the support. I really needed it this afternoon!
This truly does suck!
KJ
I don't have much to say right now (I know unusual) but just know that we are all here for you. I know this skucks but keep your head on your shoulders(you have a good one) and it will all work out for the best in the end!
It's very typical negotiation tactics. They start very high and continue to haggle until you are satisfied or you have spent all of you money.
I would take what has been offered up, pare it down to what you think is reasonable and go from there. I did this and when I completed the fine tuning, I stated that what I put forth was non-negotiable and that was it.
This is a business deal and you will need to leave your feelings and your heart at the door. You are now dealing with what you and your family will need to survive. The MLCer will go for the gold, but there's one thing in your favor...you are the sane one here and trust me....his lawyer knows he's out to lunch. They see and hear this every day. They know just how much they can bleed from them. So, set the pace for what you would like and do not continue the negotiating until you are broke.
K
The L did not ASK you H what do you want to do? If he did, he probably didn't listen long.
Then -
He said 'list the shared property - because that is what they will do'
Then -
He said 'here is what we need to do - because this is what they will do'
And he said 'nothing is personal, just standard procedure'
The L might even have told him 'if you don't protect half the kid's money, there won't be any when they need it'
His L doesn't know you, doesn't plan to. Doesn't represent you, can't. Follows a learned game plan, less effort, less overhead, hand it off to the clerk to type.
I lean toward 'it is easier to give something back after you get it - than to get it after they took it away'
Like they said, this is first round of a multiple. Soak in a tub. Think all the bad things you want, then let them go and replace them with happy thoughts that we won't have to read in the headlines. I've heard it helps to think of shoes on sale.
Thanks! This is all surreal.
You think you'd never be able to stay with your husband if he has an affair..he has one and you find you actually CAN forgive him...you imagine going through a divorce..somehow you think you'll never trust again, never be able to get past the hurt and anger that come up..but I'm hoping that is also something I'll be able to overcome.
Just hard to imagine from where I am right now.
I really do appreciate everyone's support.
Hey K,
How are you holding up sweetie? I hope you're doing ok today.
HUGS
Thanks Grace,
Haven't checked in in awhile-just processing the silence from H (Which is fine with me-I really don't want to see/hear from him right now), his lawyer's request..Waffling between a lot of emotions.
I'm emotionally wiped out right now. Trying to just get through this time until my emotions settle and my mind can take the wheel again. Not looking forward to whatever contact with H the divorce/mediation brings.
(((KJ)))
I was also thinking about you and wondering how you were since I hadn't seen you on in a few days.
Silence in regards to your H is probably good for you right now until you get your bearings.
So sorry you are going through this. I know that one of the most upsetting and frustrating things is the fact that you have no say in the D - not your choice at all.
Hope you are able to relax some and have fun with your daughters.
So, haven't seen/talked to H since 1/31. Emailed a bit regarding kid updates(home sick/school stuff) and tax stuff.
Today H cme to the house while I was at work and took his mail. He sent me an email with no message-only the header.."Got my mail. Thanks"
Message from his lawyer to mine is that H wants to spend as much time with our daughter's as he can even though he no place to have them stay over. His lawyer's suggestion was to email me,which he did today, to ask about taking them to dinner tonight.
Since I didn't check my email til after dinner, I left a voicemail message for H saying as such and asking him if he wanted me to take the tax forms to the accountant.
He just called and said he had understood I wanted to look over the tax stuff and he thought that I had previously offered to take it to the acountant so he felt angry that I asked him if he wanted me to take it to the accountant...OY VAY!
At least he used an "I feel" statement!
He said he is taking an 8 week course on mindfulness/meditation..kind of surprising, but can only do him good.
Anyway, he got of the phone quickly as he was angry...Haven't spoken to him him in 10 days and I still get anger...
I really am feeling kind of done. The missing him moments are less frequent. Have felt anger from him for so long, I think that's all I'm going to get. Why would I want to be closer to that?
The lawyer stuff just stresses me out.
Not knowing if I'll be working to just support myself the kids and him-with nothing left over and zero savings stresses me out.
A brand new 2 hour commute to work each day starting Monday, stresses me out.
Would like it to be over and ust move on with my life. I don't think H will ever look back with regret, and if he does it will be years from now and he wouldn't let me know if he did.
Just all makes me so very, very sad. Guess I'm still in mourning.
It is sad girlfriend. It's really sad.
BUT - it's just a moment in time. (I know it doesn't really help, but try to remember it). This moment, out of all of your life is just one moment. These months/ years that you are going through now are refining you and teaching you the things you would never otherwise have had the opportunity to know. Perhaps not much consolation now ... just trust me.
How are the girls coping?
Thinking of you.
V
Hi V-
D14 is coping OK. D12-not so much. She is so full of anger(hatred she says) towards H, primarily for moving home and then leaving again right when she was warming up to him a bit. Feels very betrayed. She won't discuss this with him, so when he is around she just acts sullen and closed off and he doesn't know what she is so upset about.
I haven't stepped into the middle of that one and am just watching from the sidelines, which is painful.
Today was the info meeting on D12's potential Australia trip. H met us there and we had to wait a bit to go through the whole presentation.
I brought up the kids education money(which H's lawyer wants split between us and H now doesn't see as primarily designated for the kids), H got mad and left before we got to the presentation. He's since emailed me and I responded.
H is still so angry at me for anything and everything(yes today I deserved it for bad timing)...I really don't feel like validatng him, walking on eggshells around him...I think he needs to see the reality..I'm not pushing it, but I don't feel like we're in a place to sugar-coat things either...I'm just not sure how well one can divorce-bust during a divorce and I'm not sure I want this divorce busted or feel it is bustable.
I think its inevitable. It has to happen for H to move onward with any hope of coming out of his MLC..If his anger was gone I think I'd feel differently. But as he is so very angry at me, and he is divorcing me and going after my money/assets in a way he said he never would, I think I need to be clear about my (or my girls')wishes/needs when they are being stepped on.
I don't recall reading about any couple going through MLC and divorce and coming back together later? Does this actually happen? I just have a hard time imagining it with all of these negative feelings of anger and hurt and self-preservation flying around.
Anyone?
So, I'd like some opinions on my H's response to my email..
Here's the end of mine to him:
I feel sad that you are so angry with me. I feel you must see me through a very negative perspective and I'm not sure what I have done to cause that. I hope that changes someday so that we can be more comfortable around each other. We can always discuss this stuff with a mediator, if needed, but I was hoping that some things could be worked out between us.
I hope the rest of your weekend is good.
Here's his response(to which I am NOT responding):
You really don't understand...
I'm not angry with you. Just don't know how to deal with you anymore. It's best (for me certainly) to have someone else take care of it. I am not an attorney, nor do I know all of the legal issues. I don't even know where each of us stands or wants. The few things I have heard from you (like kids living with you for 9 months and then me for 3) simply offend me. I can't believe you honestly think that is best for anyone.
I simply want to move on with my life and regain being a father to my children. If left directly to just us, one or both of us would have spent years feeling they were taken advantage of. Hopefully now, we can do things fairly and equitably. You, me, and our kids, all deserve that.
Thanks.
Let me say I don't know where he got the 9 months/3 months idea.
My question to all is...is the "I don't know how to deal with you" a MLC 'script? Has anyone else's spouse said that? I think H said that with our first separation and once he asked me for a divorce last May he also started sharing with me and we had no problem 'dealing'.
Since H moved out/filed for divorce I have kept pretty dim-not initiating contact unless needed regarding the kids. Where in the past H would contact me after a bit...this time he really hasn't. The closest we had to a chat was on FB last week.
I'm not trying to read H's mind..just wondering/having self-doubt ..?am I hard to deal with? or could this be a MLC-kind of response. I sometimes have bad timing, but I'm fairly thoughtful, I think, in how I state things or ask things.
Just wondering..
Yep, the I don't know how to deal w/you is a MLC script. Because they are eaten up w/guilt they truly don't know how to deal w/those emotions and us.
He pulled the 9/3 months out of thin air. It's most likely something he thought about and is projecting on to you. Don't let it bother you.
I would let this email sit. He's definitely feeling a bit pressured/threatened by all of the divorce/child issues.
No matter what you do, he will see it as pressure right now. Nothing is going to make him happy, even if you offered up a golden egg to him. Step back, sit quietly and allow him to come to you. I know that you are trying to work w/him in a very cordial manner, but for some reason, he's feeling a bit pressured.
KJ -
Again, so sorry you are having to deal with it. It does sound like the pressure is getting to him and he is projecting in a big way.
Hope you are making this V-day fun with your Valentines. I am happy to have my kids to be mine this year. They are so sweet.:)
Kjensen,
OMG, what your H wrote sounds EXACTLY like what my ex has said. The coldness is enough to break the heart. Hang in there, he is following the script to a tee.
Thanks for all the input ladies!
Took the girls to see Valentine's Day today and did get a bit weepy-but it was cute.
Hung out at home with the girls,did some cleaning and organizing for my new life with less time at home and more commuting as of tomorrow.. made some roast, did some baking.
H mailed both girls valentines with $20. Don't think he contacted them today though. H's mom called to say she was thinking of me. My mom sent us girls flowers..so an OK day overall.
Reading about compassion and forgiveness. Trying to be the person I will look back on and admire as I go through this awful process of divorce.
Glad to hear you had a decent day. We all survived.:) I wasn't dreading today as much because of what day it is, but I was getting tired of all the commercials with all the couples, etc.
I think you will look back and admire how you have handled your situation. Seems like you are behaving with dignity and grace and eventually hopefully he will be aware of that.
So the long commute starts tomorrow? Will that affect getting the girls off to school, or will you be able to leave after they go?
when i was goign through the "heat" of stuff x would say stupid stuff.. now that we are through all of that it has changed.. he just stays away... mine is distant.
when someone can't justify they project.. someone has to be the bad guy and it "can't" be them.
sorry you are hurting.
Thanks Cagzmom!
Hi TF-the commute started today and since its a holiday for many the traffic wasn't too bad and the kids didn't need to get off to school. Tomorrow will be the real test. I'll be home in the morning long enough to wake them up and get them moving, but they'll need to walk or ride their bikes to school. Thats what has me most nervous. Schools are close enough to walk, but it still takes them a good half-hour or more to get there.
H is over at the condo having lunch with the girls. D12 is sick with sore throat/fever and didn't feel like going to get lunch to bring home-H is taking this personally. he finally asked D12 if she was mad at him and she said yes. He asked why-he didn't think he'd done anything...she said she wasn't ready to talk about it and she said H seemed mad at her then...I helped her come up with something neutral to say if he asks before she's ready again..
Its hard to hear him be so clueless as to the repercussions of his actions on our family!
He emailed me with some ideas for separating accounts..I'd already done it..not sure if he was surprised or angry..he just responded "wow, you've been busy"...
Oh well. More worried about my new commute and getting my home schedule down than I am with his reactions to everything.
Beware venting is ahead..sorry- nowhere else to go.
So my lawyer forwarded an email from H's lawyer in which he shared the conversation from Saturday where H was upset and I was inappropriate...Feel like I've been tattled on!
I clarified the situation/tone of the conversation for my lawyer but haven't heard back from him.
H texted tonight that he could take D12 to the doctor tomorrow since she told him I was taking her. He asked
Why did you take the morning off without asking for help?
D12 wants nothing to do with H and asked me if I would take her since I recommended she get tested for strep(hasn't barely eaten a thing in 2 days). I told H I'd already gotten morning off to take D12 because she asked me to take her(which is true)..then I asked him a tax question..at the end our texts he sends this:
Look forward to the time that you take me being a parent as seriously as you do money. None of this needs to be this way I have always advocated win-win
Ok so I have so many responses to these two texts...
I have taken care of the chldren without asking for help because he walked away. When he was living with us and I would ask him for help with the kids he would get angry and make me feel guilty like I didn't respect him being self-employed...Which do I believe? The helpful parent or the put-upon disrespected husband? Can't have it both ways!
This is the man who when he told the kids he was leaving (again) and we were divorcing said he'd see the girls every day, talk to them every day...He texts them maybe once a week and has had lunch with them maybe once every 2 weeks.
That seems to be worthy of me taking him seriously!
I know if I responded it would just deteriorate- I wish he could really have a moment of clarity, but he really doesn't. I'm the bad guy.
How can he advocate a win-win in a divorce where he wants half the money that should be going into the girls' college fund. Where he is asking for me to pay him almost half my monthly pay for the next three months... I don't think I'm winning in this and certainly our daughters are NOT.
It boggles my mind the way he selectively changes his mind. When he moved home last June we talked about how we couldn't see how we could have afforded to divorce..he seems to think "we" can now...He never wanted any of my "stuff" yet he is asking for and seems to feel entitled to half of everything.
He wanted to be a man and support himself and face his fear(that he can't support himself) yet he is clinging to the lifeboat of my financial assets. Something he said he didn't want to do...
I guess it feels like he is a walking contradiction. He doesn't see it at all.
I get so mad, cool off, then am just plain sad.
D12 is angry at her dad, understandably. She feels abandoned.
H hasn't a clue right now why D12 is angry with him. She is not willing/ready to talk to him about it, yet. He is sensing her anger though as she expresses it only as a 12 year old can..sullen looks, refusing to respond to texts/calls/emails, closed-off postures, minimal conversation when asked questions...
So H asks me why I took the morning off to take D12 to the doctor(she has strep) when he was "happily" willing to help(now!). I say she asked me to(and don't say she didn't want H to take her).
So he texts me on FB that he texted, called and emailed D12 today and she didn't respond.
Question: Is there a point where I clue H in, nicely?
I haven't done this up to now because I don't want to get in the middle. I don't want to get in a position with H where he understands why D12 is mad and then defends himself to me or attacks me(I refused to leave so he had to).
I hope that D12 will be able to have this conversation with her father, when she is ready. But it is painful to see H asking these questions and not "getting" it.
Any thoughts or ideas? Just let it be?
Yes
This is not your job to be the go between for your H and D12. It will only be your fault if it doesn't go well. Be the best Mom you can be (which I know you already are) but don't enable your H.
OP-
I agree. Its hard watching D12 be so angry and H not have a clue and get angry back..
H is emailing me a lot more, purely about kids' schedules/separating accounts and such..but its new.
I think I've dropped the rope a bit more. Still sad this is all happening, especially for the girls. Still mad H has rewritten the history of the kids college fund money. Don't see this divorce getting stopped...Almost want it to be done and over now so I can move forward more. Enjoying it not being over b/c the girls still live with me full-time. I can't imagine how I'll get through the change of them living apart from me half the time. It hurts to think about.
I agree with letting your H and D figure out their relationship. It is hard to believe that he can't figure out why she would be mad at him, isn't it?
How is your commuting going?
Hi TF,
It blows my mind that he can't figure it out? Did he think we all just got over the hurt and betrayal of him leaving a second time?..I really think he believes we are all emotionally better off..mind boggling.
The commute isn't pretty. Its about 40 minutes on good days(no accidents or bad weather). Tommorrow should be fun since we're getting some icy snow right now. Really seems busy and nonstop at night lately with transporting kids to activities.
Having a hard time emotionally lately with all the change and stress. Feeling kind of down one minute and slightly hopeful(not for busting this divorce, just for some kind of happiness in my life, some peace) the next and back and forth.
I think there is an underlying sadness to get through, more grieving before I can move on.
Thanks for checking in!
Did he think we all just got over the hurt and betrayal of him leaving a second time?
Part of the disease he can't remember or has pushed it out of his mind.
Keep moving, actually that sound like all you are doing. LOL
MOM = moving in circles.
KJ, are you commuting to D? Is Park 'n' Ride an option for you?
Twink,
I am commuting to East D..no easy park 'n ride route...There may be some regular pharmacy openings closer to home(at my old building), but the shifts might be late a few days a week...will have to see how that works out with the kids...
I really love my job(more clinical drug management, sitting at a desk, managing the same 500 patients for years sometimes-definite appreciation for what I do)so I'll see if I can make this work.
Its just a rough first week of change, especially for the girls, D12 having strep.
Positive is the girls are getting more self-sufficient, because they have to.
Mostly transporting kids to things this weekend but hopefully there'll be some time to just hang out and relax and NOT drive!
K -
I wondered about the Park and Ride, too. I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy driving, particularly through traffic, so I know that would be a huge stressor for m. It is always hard to get into a new routine.
Hopefully something perfect will open up closer to home. I know you don't want to miss out on any more time with your girls than you have to.
At least you have the weekend now!
No word from H yesterday. He said he'd miss D12's talent show because he had a client meeting. D12 did great with her dance group. When she came home she was kind of sad-looking-not sure if realted to her dad missing it or not(she says she didn't want him there of course..)
This morning H texts me to ask how D12's show was and to let me know he has a free snowborad lesson, lift ticket, equip rental from his cousn's friend and is going to Aspen today. Wishes D12 good luck on her Australia interview. I respond that D12 did great..say his day sounds fun..ask if he is going with his cousin(my weakness-shouldn't have). Asked how his meeting was.
No response from H. I was feeling some resentment creep in..I'm taking care of our children (which I am absolutely thrilled to do), but I would like a snowboard lesson...ahhh the weakness.
Don't think he'll get to Aspen today as I-70 is closed at Vail.
Read J3B's great doormat question and responses..so I texted H that I hope he has a great day. Snowboarding sounds cool. Left it at that.
D12 and I may take a snowboard lesson ourselves durng spring break when D14 goes to Disney with the marching band.
Thanks to all who posted their(IMO spot on)answers to J3B. I heartily agree with all. Nice to have reminders of the big picture with a MLCer...
Not much going on at the moment but I suspect that may change soon.
H emailed me this morning that he didn't think he'd make it to the meeting tonight for D14's upcoming band trip as he might have "homework" with classmates for his meditation class???
He didn't show. But during meeting time he texted D14 and D12.
D12 finally got the nerve up to tell her dad that she and he are NOT Ok..via text..She said it took her 4 texts to share her feelings. She was crying when I came home from the meeting but didn't tell me til bedtime why. Not sure what she said or H's reaction, but I'm proud of her and hope that some her anger dissipates as this weight is lifted(I hope).
I'm to have a phone conference this week with my lawyer to discuss temporary orders for maintenance(alimony)...so thins should get moving with the divorce.
Still feel some sniping kind of anger from H in the emails.. really wish the anger would go away..its been so long.
Am staying dim except when needing to communicate about the girls. Doesn't seem to make any difference. Really think H has moved on and won't look back.
I'm still very sad about how all of this as turned out. I'm trying to look forward, but I seem to still be processing all the lies H told me this past year, the false sense of hope H gave me when he moved home, the betrayal I feel with his lack of effort in our marriage, the loss of my best friend...not sure if its because of the events that happened a year ago and the anniversay is bringing it to the forefront of my mind or just that I still need alot of time to get through the pain/betrayal.
Wish I could get through it quicker-seems like I was doing better last May before H moved home than I am now.
Hi K,
I dragged this off Jack's question thread; since I didn't feel right about answering it there....I walked it over here.
I know it seems that I write literal books when I post to people, but a lot of deep thought goes into everything I post to anyone; along with explanations that I feel are needed knowing if I don't, there might be questions that I could have answered while posting.
Questions are always good, though, so fire away if you think I've missed anything.
I'm being very honest when I say I've always felt I did/do not do very well contributing to the people who either have MLC'ers who insisted on divorce, or the ones who have already divorced.
Though my marriage came close because of me and my issues in the beginning, we never got that far, and are still together.
That doesnt mean I don't have any compassion for the people who, through no fault of their own have divorced. And I answer the best I can, but I'm no authority on any of this.
When I talk to LBS who've divorced I more concentrate on their growth and what's best for them, as the MLC'er is generally beyond help...and beyond my scope of insight.
If the MLC'er is struggling to come back, showing clear signs of the baby steps, I can help there..but if they've gone on and remarried OW or otherwise, I cannot help any further; as it's too late then.
I will answer what you're asking with the best knowledge and insight I have on this.
Divorce is an unknown territory for me; but when I read your post, I felt I would have an answer. Quite a bit of what follows is based on something that was shown to me years ago, in the form of two separate paths, and it involved my husband; and based on what I saw; I chose the marriage. Then there were several situations I have seen that I'm also remembering.
Hi HB-Thank you for posting again-your insights are really helpful in putting things in context and providing perspective!
My H has been through all the stages of MLC(Up to acceptance) and back again. Dishes out alot of anger towards me and this hasn't dissipated. Being Dim(we have kids) has helped me but seems to have no effect on H. We are in the process of divorce and my hopes of salvaging this marriage are very, very slim. I still love my H, but am much more detached..don't really like the person/father he is right now.
I wonder what your thoughts/experience are about the effects of divorce on the MLCer. I know each person is unique, but I wonder if there ever seemed to be any kind of "MLC" response or script that goes with divorce?
Well, the only thing I have ever seen out of the various different posts on spouses that were screaming for a divorce, was the one thing they thought they could get....an escape, a get away from their pain and/or issues. The very fact they're asking for a divorce, tells me they still think the LBS is at fault, when that is NOT true...but they are still looking at the external factors instead of the internal ones.
Nine times out of ten, they're screaming for a divorce during the stage of Replay; to their minds it's a "starting over" "getting away from the pain"..never mind the fact that each time they look at the LBS, it shows them ACCOUNTABLE for their actions. And they want desperately to get away from all that; including the responsibilities.
The thing is this: Ok, they might get all they want, with or without the LBS' help. (and you would be surprised at how many LBS do the heavy lifting for them, or the LBS gets scared and files because they cannot take the pain anymore)
One of three things can happen. First; The MLC'er's growth, as I mentioned before on Jack's Question thread; and that of the LBS would be halted; both people would be scarred; probably for the rest of their lives. It is very possible the MLC'er would literally get "stuck" in Replay or where ever they are in the tunnel, and NEVER come out...
If the LBS learns what they are set to learn out of this..it is clearly seen later on they would not want the MLC'er in the shape they are in..and move on. Some do not remarry.
Some LBS never heal, staying in emotional pain for the rest of their lives, some do learn and move on...later on, remarry, gaining something better than they had before. Others move on, don't learn, remarry, and have to face this AGAIN..only it's worse than the first time around; and MORE time is added on for having skipped the lessons the first time.
The second thing that could happen is this: the MLC'er gets what they thought they wanted...laughing sneakily up their sleeve; most possibly marrying their OW; if there is one. If not, they go on with what's left of their lives, but still in the tunnel.
Either way, there would seem to come a time when the MLC'er hits the "awakening" time; and it would be like Rip Van Winkle of a sort(You know I started to say "Jack the Ripper"..don't know why, LOL!!)
Several years have gone by; they are shocked to find themselves older; and are really shocked to see that things have changed...one of the first things they may try to do is find the LBS, because it was the LAST connection/memory they had BEFORE the onslaught of the tunnel. If the LBS is still around somewhere, they may have already moved on, remarried, or might be still in the last place the MLC'er left them.
Understandably, there would seem to be a total mistrust on the LBS part, and most likely a rejection of the MLC'er; as it is possible the LBS has moved on to the point they no longer love the one who left them behind.
Or, despite the best efforts of the MLC'er, they NEVER locate the LBS; and for a time are at a loss as to what to do.
Either way; the MLC'er can and will go through the SAME crap they put the LBS through...and some can go through so much anguish seeing everything they've caused in the way of pain, torment..they commit suicide.
I think some try to move along after finding rejection, or being unable to find their former spouse, but it's extremely painful for them.
The lesson learning probability for them is low..my two cents; don't have data to back that up..but if they don't have any help or motivation, they will not learn anything from their journey.
The third possibility, and quite honestly; there is only ONE case I'm actually observing now; is the MLC'er gets his divorce, stays out of the picture; has gone to live with OW...but experiences the "awakening" process...then has to figure out how to get rid of the OW in order to start coming back....all the while taking baby steps forward in an attempt to come back.
The LBS is still waiting on him, and it's been over 9 years since he left.
He was hateful, horrible, dragged her through a horrible divorce; (reading your situation kind of reminds me of what she dealt with; only he wanted to more or less make her sell the house and give him half; which would have left her without a place to live)she learned to cope with it, supports herself, has gotten to the place she knows she wouldn't want him in the shape he's in.
But, she's never remarried and they still live in the same town.
Hasn't been long ago, he'd shown the signs of taking baby steps forward..after nine years.
She will take him back, but not until he comes on through; getting rid of OW, and navigating his way on out.
I've been more or less with her ever since, helping her work through it all; keeping her from getting stuck, dragging her along when I had to. I know her personally; and keep in touch with her fairly steadily. I think, if he does what he's supposed to do and finish this; they will come back together; he's showing signs he wants her, but she's staying low key and somewhat out of reach, mainly because of OW..until THAT problem is gone; there is NO chance they will be able to try anything concerning coming back together.
I already know when they complete that last step if/when it happens, I will step out of the picture; my work there being done.
There's another lady I have just started with; the main reason I came back here in the first place to find the archives. Her husband said he wanted out, but didn't know how to go about it...she's in the bombing stage at this point. I'm serving as advisor there until it comes to an end.
I've not been able to convince her to come here; not yet..but I'm trying.
I hope I've covered all you might want to know.
Understand this, though..it is not over until he remarries or you move on to another place in your life where you no longer love nor want him. There is always hope as long as you still love him..when you lose that, there's no hope of trying to salvage what's left of the marriage.
But, that will NOT make you some kind of villian...it's HIS loss, not yours, and the tools you are continuing to gain here are empowering you to make the decisions that give you firm control of your life, helping you to decide what you want and what you don't want for yourself.
And that is power, indeed.
Much love,
HB
HB- Thanks for your perspective/thoughts!
I kind of gathered that once a divorce happens, its hard to tell what will occur in the future. I think H has to go through this in order to "grow up"...Just really stinks in how it affects the girls.
So heard from H today in response to kids schedules/info I forwarded to him.
He mentionned D12's text to him and said that although it was painful for him to read he thought it was just as painful for her to share with him.
He offered to take her to a meeting for her summer Australia trip...I don't think he gets that she is STILL mad at him and doesn't want to be around him...but oh well. I'm sure he'll figure it out.
H stated he hadn't slept well last night and has a migraine today. He hasn't had migraine's in years so I wonder if his life is not a peaceful as he tries to portray. He doesn't sleep when things are bothering him (guilt)...
He mentionned not wanting a judge to determine the fate of our children and hopes that we can work things out in that regard...(Does he think I want a judge to determine anything?)..
Kept my response neutral with more kid info to share. I sympathized about his migraine and wished him a better day.
He offered to take her to a meeting for her summer Australia trip...I don't think he gets that she is STILL mad at him and doesn't want to be around him...but oh well. I'm sure he'll figure it out.
Sadly, it's for her to figure out too.
My D15 still struggles with how she feels about her Dad. I listen if she is willing to share and she knows that I don't have any expectations for her relationship with him. Whatever thay have together is up to them and she has been responsive to this.
She's been in IC for several months and that has been a huge help for her.
HUGS
(((KJ)))
Just thinking about you and wondering how your weekend is going!
KJ.
you're a rock.
I admire you.
Thanks RU- I sure don't feel like a rock.
Its been a rough two weeks with the new commute. When things wear me out I tend to think of H with some resentment..that he's doing nothing financially or emotionally for his daughters..yet going after my financial assets and child sport via the divorce.
My pity parties don't last long and they are private affairs.
But even though I am GALing when I can and am enjoying making my own decisions on buying things for the girls or myself without needing H's input/opinion, I really do miss him(the way he used to be). I really miss having my best friend beside me to share the days' events, dreams and hopes of the future. I miss having my family whole.
D14 had a meltdown today...she rarely has them. Says that nothing in her life is working.. she settled down and we had a bit of a talk..but now its apparent that even though she seemed to be handling things well, it is a facade. She's really strugglng inside with all kinds of stuff,not just the divorce.
Being a teenager is so rough sometimes. I wouldn't want to go back to that now..don't envy H his mental timeframe.
H did show up at D14's drumline competiton in Loveland today-bit of a drive for him. D14 said she saw him for 3 seconds before their performance. I didn't go since I had to shuttle D12 to a birthday party.
Suppose I'll see him tomorrow at the trip meeting with D12. Really don't want to. With the divorce stuff that is going on I just feel like he is two-faced and feeling entitled. I think its fear causing his about-face on wanting money/assets from me, but I still feel deceived. He always said that he didn't want 'stuff' from me, that he needed to stand on is own two feet..blah blah blah. His talk isn't matching the lawyer's 'walk'.
Going to restart therapy and hope I can convince one or both girls to start as well.
Hello K,
RU is right, you ARE a rock, standing strong in a very deep stream..but you're not getting washed away, and that is what's important.
There aren't that many people who can stand, and keep going...this is really hard to do in the face of all you're enduring.
A better day will come; it always does, and you'll be fine.
Your husband won't, though, he'll have lost everything, and he won't even see it; not right this minute; but he will.
Its been a rough two weeks with the new commute. When things wear me out I tend to think of H with some resentment..that he's doing nothing financially or emotionally for his daughters..yet going after my financial assets and child sport via the divorce.
It's normal to think of your husband with resentment; you've worked hard for what you have; and you just want to hide everything you've got in a really deep hole so he can't find it. And you'd do it if you could get away with it. Unrealistic, I know, but that's how you feel.
Look at your pity parties as something that blows the stress off you for now..this is also normal.
I feel for your daughter; puberty is a rough thing for a teen to have to deal to begin with, and coupled with her dad in MLC; it makes things even rougher on her.
At least you're there to talk to her when she needs you, and she knows that.
With the divorce stuff that is going on I just feel like he is two-faced and feeling entitled. I think its fear causing his about-face on wanting money/assets from me, but I still feel deceived. He always said that he didn't want 'stuff' from me, that he needed to stand on is own two feet..blah blah blah. His talk isn't matching the lawyer's 'walk'.
You've got him pegged. He's both and a whole lot more; ought to be ashamed of himself for stealing from the kids' college fund, and you KNOW he's the force behind his lawyer, though I can guarantee you he's saying the lawyer's doing this and that; and your husband has NOTHING to do with it; so he SAYS(Liar, liar, pants on fire).
We know the lawyer only does what his client pays him to do.
So, your husband's REALLY not fooling anyone..he just thinks he is.
Funny, how they think the LBS doesn't see through them.
The behavior of saying one thing and doing another is one of the hallmarks of MLC. You can never listen to what they say; just watch what they do.
Hang in there, K; I'm hoping things will work out all right; just make sure you're protecting yourself as much as you can financially, that's all you can do..and I know you're doing the best you can.
Remember, you ARE The Rock, standing strong, no matter what you say.
K,
You have alot on your plate and the added commute can really wear you down.
I'm sorry your D's are having a tough time right now. Having to keep an eye and ear open esp if you have one (or more) that doesn't talk is hard. If they are willing to talk to a C that's great. If not, I'm sure you will find your own path and be able to help them with theirs.
HUGS
Thanks HB and Grace.
Its really nice to hear words of encouragement.
Went to D12's trip meeting today and H sat next to me for the 3 hours. D12 on the other side of me, feeling cruddy with an awful cold she just picked up. H kept trying to engage D12 and she really didn't respond.
I didn't bring up anything about how we are paying for this trip with H, asked my lawyer to bring it up with H's before the college money is split, so hopefully he'll 'pay' for part of the trip. H's lawyer knew nothing about the trip..
H noticed my iphone (I'd been worried about his reaction weeks ago)..he seemed OK with it and interested-at least it gave him something to talk about with me for a bit.
As we were leaving, H followed us to our car to get his mail that I brought. I started telling him what I had and he kind of got testy and asked "Are you giving me a list of what's in the envelope?"..which was very odd. I said "No" and said goodbye. D12 asked what was eating Dad when I got in the car..ever perceptive she is.
Ah..found out Friday, the divorce may be final by June 7. Just in time for H's 46th birthday. D12 asked me if I knew when we'd be divorced and when I told her she said "Dad will probably spend his birthday in a bar drinking..he drinks alot now".
I told her I'm planning to have a big party for my 45th birthday(in July)-lots of friends and a good time for all! She thought that sounded cool.
Now...just watching the closing ceremonies of the Olympics and getting ready for another very busy week!
So stuff has been happening. Yesterday H emailed me a long email at work about understanding each other, how he feels shut off from the kids..they are angry at him because he was the one who left b/c I wouldn't...He is comfortable with his lot in life...
I responded that I was sorry he felt that way..I felt he walked away from his family as I never stop him from contacting/seeing the kids..I encourage them to share their feelings with him and if they don't it has nothing to do with me. They are angry at both of us, not just him...
Wasn't super validating, but lots of "I feel" statements..his email showed me his perception of everything is still very skewed and he's made no effort to see my point of view...
Last night D14 and I were in a car accident(other driver at fault)-car very damaged, no people damage except maybe D14's back-posible muscle strain?-she sees a doctor this afternoon. So I called D12 to let her know what happened and she called H who picked her up and came to the accident scene.
H was very supportive and caring..offered to lend me his car, drive me around..whatever I needed today. H drove D14 to school this morning. He kept saying that he cares about us and will always be there for us. In a conversation this morning he said he never walked away from our family that he tells the kids every day that he loves them, he can drive them here or there.. This I know to be incorrect as I can see there are days on end with no contact from him to the kids.
So his words are very positive right now, buthis actions in the past haven't matched. Last night and today his actions were more 'normal' and matched what he was saying..
Just don't feel he's anywhere close to being whole/normal. His vision of the world is very self-centered most of the time. If he really wanted to spend time with the girls these last several months, he would have. Its easy for me to start doubting myself when his worldview is so very diferent from my perception.
I'm sorry to hear about the accident--I hope your D's back isn't seriously strained. What a blessing that it wasn't worse!
The MLCer really is the centre of his own universe, and even though he may sound reasonable at the moment, don't let that make you start doubting yourself. His head will start spinning around again, his actions won't match his words, and you'll still be the sane constant in your girls' lives.
D14 does just have muscle strain-xrays were OK, thank goodness!
Been going over some conversations I've had with H in my head...just to have perspective.
He says his mind is all over the place, he can't concentrate or keep things organized very well(this is the total opposite of tha man I know him to be). That's why he's taking this meditation class-to focus on the here and now, I guess.
Anyone else find their spouse 'scatterbrained' during the MLC? Wondering if its part of his depression, or just stress.
H emailed me today to confirm picking up D12 from a class tomorrow and thanked me for sending him a gift on farmville(FB)!
I thought it was pretty odd/funny. I send all my farming neighbors gifts when I actually get on and "play"..just seemed weird. Like an excuse to email.
Here's a quotation from "Seratonin, From Bliss to Despair," about depression:
"An automobile can be one, two or three quarts low in oil. Using the automobile as an example, imagine that brain Serotonin can have similar stages, being low (one quart low), moderately low (two quarts low), and severely low (three quarts low). The less Serotonin available in the brain, the more severe our depression and related symptoms.
When Serotonin is low, we experience problems with concentration and attention. We become scatterbrained and poorly organized. Routine responsibilities now seem overwhelming. It takes longer to do things because of poor planning. We lose our car keys and put odd things in the refrigerator. We call people and forget why we called or go to the grocery and forget what we needed. We tell people the same thing two or three times."
So, yes, expect that scatterbrained-ness to last as long as he's depressed. At the same time, however, my H used to complain that his brain was racing and he couldn't stop all the negative thoughts. I suppose it's because they're so preoccupied with their misery that depressed people become so scatterbrained about the rest of their lives.
So, though he says he's "comfortable with his life," it's not really true, it's just that depressed people have shut down so much that they can't really feel what actual happiness is like, any more.
I'm glad your D is fine! Look after your girls and yourself.
K,
Sorry about the accident. I hope your D only has a strain (that's bad enough).
Talking with them about parenting is tough. I wrote a letter to my H recently that dealt with that. It seemed to go over pretty well. Of course it took me a couple of weeks of working on it so that it had the tone I wanted.
Even though you know your d's are angry at both of you, he sees what he sees. I hope he is having those tough conversations with your D's.
HUGS
Thanks ladies!
H does have racing (negative) thoughts and that is why he is taking this meditation class, that has weekly homework and reading..not sure what that is all about, but if it helps him, I'm all for it. I think he isn't going to therapy anymore, but thats just a guess since he hasn't turned any receipts in to me to get reimbursed from our medical flex plan.
I'm pretty sure H is NOT having any difficult conversations with the girls. He acts as thought things are fine between them, and when their anger is very obvious, he gets mad in response.
I've come to terms with the fact that this marriage is over.
I'm trying to figure out which direction my life is headed, what I want to do, how will I afford to do what is needed or wanted by me and the girls..those kinds of questions..
I'm trying to get organized myself, mentally for the hard stuff ahead..mediation. Planning to take a weekly class based on the book "Rebuilding" that starts in a few weeks.
The commute really sticks in my craw so to speak, as someone almost hit me again this morning, this time on the way to work. I don't think I have a big bullseye painted on the cars!
(((KJ)))
Glad you didn't get hit again!!
Sounds like you are really taking steps you need to and thinking about things you need to in order to move forward, even though this is not at all what you wanted. That's good.
I'm pretty sure H is NOT having any difficult conversations with the girls. He acts as thought things are fine between them, and when their anger is very obvious, he gets mad in response.
Isn't that the whole crux of the MLC - running from the problem and not facing it? It is way easier for your H to stick his head in the sand and try to ignore the fact that the girls are in so much pain and so angry than to work through it with them, because I am sure he knows deep down he won't like what he hears. I know you will continue to help the girls any way you can to work through it, and hopefully in time he will be open to talking it through with them as well.
(((hugs)))
The emails regarding kids' schedules have been flowing back and forth all week..Finally saw H this morning at D14's drumline competition.
As we were going to our cars, H brings up some financial stuff. During the conversation it becomes apparent that H thinks we had a conversation in which we both agreed to get divorced and that H feels I've shut him out of my/our kids' lives and H thinks I decided, on my own, that D12 can go on this summer trip.
D12, unfortunately, heard much of he conversation even though she was in the car with the doors shut and we were outside.
OK this is tripping me out. To be face-to-face with more rewriting of recent events really makes me question my perspective.
H texted D12 tonight to see if she wanted him to go to tomorrow's meeting. She came and told me she told H that she didn't care, but if we fought then she didn't want him to come. So he told her he wasn't coming.
I obviously failed miserably at DBing today. Mentally I don't think I'm trying to bust the divorce at this point as it seems pretty much a done deal. I thnk I'm trying to get my head around the fact that I will be a single mom/co-parent soon and prepare myself for that. I still hope H will wake up someday and maybe things will work out somehow between us..but I don't think that day will happen very soon.
Just feel bad for D12.
Where are you in Colorado? I'm in Broomfield, moving soon to Erie. Wanted you to know about a 10-week seminar (held in Lafayette) based on the book, Rebuilding, When Your Relationship Ends by Dr. Bruce Fischer. I finished in Dec. of 2009 and it gave me some new friendships and perspectives on things. AND, people do take the seminar and get back together, there's always hope.
I'm so sorry that we have found ourselves here, but it's THEIR journey, not ours. Take Care of yourself!!!
Hi Golfgirl,
I'm nearby in Louisville, moved from Lafayette in August. Have lived in Boulder county since 1988.
I actually plan to take the Rebuilding seminar-think the next one starts at the end of this month.
Just have a hard time hearing H say that he thought we agreed to divorce, that he didn't see me trying to save our marriage...Like he is a different person than the one I was interacting with, going to marriage counseling with last year. How could he forget that I was stuned when he announced he wanted a divorce? How could he forget that he already had retained a lawyer when he asked for the divorce so I "wouldn't be able to talk him out of it.."?
That stuff just blows my mind.
KJ and Golf, would you mind passing the info along on the seminar? When and where will it be? Or tell me what to Google and I'll find it. I'm a few hours away, but might be able to make the trip.
KJ, I feel your pain, especially where it concerns your Ds. Do something with them today that you all can enjoy!
Hi Twink,
Dr. Bruce Fisher wrote the book Rebuilding. So search for Fisher divorce recovery seminars or rebilding, will do it. Seems like there are several seminars going on at one time, led by various people. I've heard good things about it from my therapist and others.
Have a wonderful day!
Hi Kj
The conversation you are having regarding the divorce with your H sounds like convo I have about plans with my H.
It is as if they have no memory or ability to recall conversdations or how decissions are made. I have had the same conversation with H sometimes 3 or 4 times. Each time he speaks as if its the first. He has also told the children that any plans he has made I did it! Even blamed D19 for one of his cock ups that he had planned. Luckily it was me he told not my D so he couldn't blame her.......
There s so much dense fog in their brain they really don't function at all. This allows them to justify all sorts by rewriting history as you pointed out.
You will LOVE the rebuilding seminar; it's the only thing that has kept me sane. I hear the same speech over and over, his brain is gone. He actually told me he can't believe I filed for divorce last July. Huh? I said I would work on the marriage if he tossed her out of his company and ended the affair, neither of which happened.
He's coming to take the other dog in about an hour and I can barely breathe. Hope you're having a good day.
GG-Hope your weekend was OK with seeing your hubby.
Twink-thinking of you and what you're going through!
So after the bad ending of my conversation with H on Saturday, he emails me that he's got a plan to take care of the the particular financial question he'd asked me this past weekend. He stated that he was doing this on his own and hadn't consulted his lawyer. It was a far plan so I responded as such. Shared a bit about my car repair estimate ($9400!!!) and that it would take a month..
H emailed back and was sypathetic about the car, took care of the financial thing..wished me a good day. all very friendly and nice.
Last Sunday H played tennis with D14 for 2 hours...Most time he's spent with her in a long time.
Not sure if all this means anything..or just the usual rollercoaster ride.
I'm pretty detached at this point and can't see being with H as he currently is. All the anger he has towards me has really pushed me far away.
I sitll have anger towards him and the things he's said and done, but it seems to be slowly lessening in impact.
For all the stuff I believe about MLC- and its from an objective viewpoint of hearing others' stories, I guess I'm still skeptical that my H is, in fact, in MLC and that he'll acutally "wake up" someday..
K
I dont know what happens to them MY xh said the same
he said the D was mutual..I said no it was not mutual
you wanted it, I didnt
I believe my xh conveniently made up stuff in his mind to avaoid dealing with what was
maybe that is the way they can deal with the hurt they created
after a time I wonder if all the lies they tell themselves become the truth for them, an they live in a delusional state
confused to what is real and not
mental illness is probably much the same
peace
My H was actually shocked that I was upset when he left. He thought that I would be happy he was saving us both from the "loveless marriage".
He also told me the 5 years before our wedding day that we were together that we were just "hanging out".
Well,
I think I posed the question awhile back-wondering how the MLCer suddenly sees the world more 'realistically'..how does one shift from talking themselves into seeing one reality(which their spouse does not see) then switch to seeing the 'real' situation (the one the spouse does see)?
I think the answer I got was that for the MLCer its a gradual awakening. Someone let me know if thats not what they've seen or understood.
I find it hard to wrap my brain around, but maybe that will change. I think for me its the same issue I had the most difficulty with in the beginning here-the rewriting of the history. To hear it from my best friend (H) definitely made me question
my reality and my memory.
Currently it makes me question my perception of situations-wondering if I have a very skewed vision and lots of filtering going on...but I think its him and his perception that is skewed-most of the time!
KJ - I have been thinking about that awakening thing, too. Since everything in MLC takes so long, it makes sense that that would too. And honestly, if I were "waking up" and seeing all the damage I had done, I think I would run and hide for awhile longer, too.
I have had my moments of wondering if I was the one who didn't remember things correctly, too, but I don't think so. I do hate that feeling that my H thinks I am horrible, that we were never happy, etc. Frankly, I have no idea what he thinks these days about us/our past. If he is starting to remember the truth or not.
That depression must color everything. I don't suffer from depression in general but I know days that I have felt down and hopeless through this nothing seems good and it is hard to see the positives. I can't imagine how hard it is to find anything good when your whole world feels bad.
You sound like you are doing well for the most part. How is work? Is the new job going well? How are the girls?
KJ, to answer your question, awakening for the MLCer is much like it is for anyone else coming out of a depression. If you've had someone close to you die (or break up with you), you know how for a long time that new reality colours everything you think about or do. But then one day you find yourself smiling or humming a song, and you're surprised you've forgotten about your lost loved one for the moment ... and then the periods between thinking about them become longer, and one day you realize you can think about them without feeling stabbed to the heart.
In the same way, the MLCer has gradually increasing pockets of time where they don't feel miserable and trapped, where they can actually connect with others they shunned (children, family, later wife), and genuinely *see* them for who they are again. Because they've lost track of time (and have a fuzzy memory of being depressed), however, it's as though the intervening years haven't passed--my H was shocked by how old his kids were (even though he'd seen them regularly), and talked a LOT about the days we were first going out.
It takes quite a while for them to get to the point where they get used to being un-depressed, and able to look at and accept what they've done, forgive themselves, and put the entire MLC behind them.
I hope you and your girls have a wonderful weekend!
Hi TF,
Overall doing OK. Work is fine, commute stinks, but I'm listening to some good stuff on CD from the library. Getting back to my interest in Buddhism/meditation(I am not meditating while driving though!
).
Life throws some curveballs peridocially, especially with H/divorce.
I took the initiative to separate our life insurance/disability insurance bills into separate accounts. We had some dividend surplus $(not much- $150) in our account that I really didn't notice and found out that our insurance guy sent a check to H for that amount. liquidating it..that was in our joint account(should have been split between us). I'd asked H about it awhile back when I found out he got some money from the insurance and he just flippantly said it was some surplus in the account and I asked the agent about it yesterday and he really just dodged the question...so I was pretty mad at H and the insurance agent(getting a different one) when I figured out what happened, last night.
Upset really about how my lack of knowledge had me in a powerless position-not understanding what I was dealing with right away and being able to "call" these fellows on their misdeed.
I felt I was trying to take back my power, take care of things, learn what I needed to and this stupid thing made me realize just how clueless about some things I still am. Just frustrating.
Will see H this weekend at some kid functions. Just when I think he might be making progress-reconnecting with kids, things occur which make me realize how so very far he has yet to go...He bought D12 a TSA lock for her Australia trip and was excited he got it in pink!-Her favorite color when she was 5, but least favorite color the last few years! The thing with the insurance seems just sneaky/not forthright and not like the man I know H used to be.
One day at a time. Looking forward to the weekend-some spring weather and maybe some catch-up sleep!
Thanks for the (simultaneous!) post Cyrena. It helps to understand what might happen down the road from someone who has been there. Just a really wacky psychological phenomena isn't it!
H still sees the kids (at least D12) as younger than she is..her wearing eye makeup(I'm not a big fan of this either-but thats not the battle I am choosing)
really bothers him-alot....
Too bad that your agent is a jerk, but people tend to do what's easiest for them.
He may have been to focused on himself to notice that your D12 is getting older. Too bad about the pink lock, but he did make an effort to get her a lock.
I had to laugh about the eye make-up. That wasn't the hill I decided to die on with my D15. It has worked out ok and now she is quite good with different styles of make-up.
I hope you have a nice sleep-in this weekend. I'm hoping for some sun so I can do yard work.
HUGS
HI Grace-
Hope you have some good weather your way as well! I am noticing that H is trying, in is own way, to help with the kids, periodically....
It is a change from the self-withdrawal earlier this year. He tries to go to D14's drumline competitions on the weekends, even if just for her high school's performance. I think he has an easier time and makes much more effort with D14, than D12-that is the part that makes me so sad.
D12, in many ways, is most like her father.
Well, off to paint the high school band room today(they are getting new carpet next week)! Then some time outside!
KJ<
OP led me to you...hope you dont mind! my h has been being treated for low t since mid sept. 09 with androgel.
at his check up last week the dr prescribes elavil for him to sleep better. I know it will help with the sleep...however may is still help the depression? i am unsure of the dosage right now. he was open enough to tell me this, i didnt want to pry as it aggravates him.thank you for any help!
I talked to a couple of people who have gone thru a crisis themselves.
One was a pastor, who for yrs was testy, cranky, would lay for wks on the couch and thought everyone had the problem but him.
On a suggestion from a dr, he was tested and found out he had low testosterone, they gave him medicine and within a couple mo's, he said he came out of his midlife crisis. Everynow and then things get rough he says, but he and his wife have a new better relationship, then they did when he went mlc.
Hi Lost,
Elavil(aka amitriptyline) is a pretty 'old' antidepressant in the family called tricyclic antidepressants(TCAs). This group of antidepressants work more on norepinephrine levels, rather than serotonin-which is what most of the newer antidepressants work on (prozac,paxil, celexa..etc). The side effects of the TCAs are drowsiness(hence it is used to help people sleep), dry mouth, urinary retention and blurred vision(causes us to hold fluids in like urine/tears)..
Since many people don't like those side effects, the TCAs aren't used as frequently for their antidepresant effects, but for helping with sleep, nerve pain, pain syndromes(fibromyalgia)...usually in pretty low doses (10mg and up). The dose for treating depression can vary widely per patient.
So, yes the elavil may help with your H's depression (as might the testosterone-since I think low testosterone levels can cause depression in men). For most any antidepressants to work, it takes about 3 weeks, on average, for the drug to effect the level of neurotransmitters(brain chemicals) to the point that will effect our mood.
Hope that helps!
thank you so much!
he has been using androgel since mid sept 09...has "calmed" him a bit but definately not enough...unfortunately it does not seem to have helped the depression.
its a long story...however we believe(ME AND H) the depression has been going on for quite some time...several years. when he took previous a/d, nothing seemed to help. Cymbalta calmed him a bit but then he seemed to level out and then actually got worse...hence the bloodwork that discovered the low t.
im hoping the elavil helps to some degree with the sleep...chronic back pain and naturally the depression. i wonder if the dr thinks that also as even though he has had in detail conversations with both h and i present about it all...including mlc...h seems in denial about the majority of the problem as a whole!
btw, i just read ALL of your threads...wow, what a woman is all i can say right now...
thanks again for your help!
Glad I could be of help, Lost.
H stopped in yesterday after taking D14 shopping. He came upstairs to the bedroom and got some spring clothes he'd left. I asked if he wanted his ties-he siad he'd get them another time.
So today after dropping D12 off at home he came and got the rest of his stuff out of our closet(ties, hats..) and emailed me that he'd done that.
He hasn't cleared out his nightstand or taken his golf clubs..just odd the things he's getting all of a sudden. I really think he's not coming back to me. I think he's still in the MLC fog..but I really can't see him being with me, or me being married to him, as he is. He seems like a stranger more and more..there's no spark, no happiness, no love.
Just sad about it, but I'm moving on. Kind of just wish this whole divorce was over and done, then I think maybe what has happened will really sink in with H. Maybe I wouldn't feel in limbo...
Funnily, H set up the kids college accounts to be "fed" by the money market $$ his lawyer wants us to split..this was what H and I had originally talked about..I don't think H has told his lawyer he did this..but its what should have been done to begin with!
Just so weird.
Im sorry to hear that...my h has everything still here but his cloths shoes and toiletries! what a butt!!!
im glad you are able to be so strong! im envious! everytime i think im doing well...i seem to crash.
h also told me today that the dr took him off of the elavil and has put him on prozac...he told me why but i cant remember...sorry!
he is in the lowest dose...i thought prozac was pretty much only for anxiety and depression. if i am wrong and he may be on it for something else...could you clue me in??
i know there is no miracle pill for any of this...however, the symptoms of such a major depression is what scares me...maybe even more than the mlc.an a/d could help with many of his issues although not all...i try to be positive!
he shows most of the classic signs of mlc...severe depression even more...i think this is why i worry so much and still have trouble detaching completely! the depression is an illness...heaven forbid, if it were his heart...or cancer i wouldnt run away from it...nor do i feel i should now...i try so damn hard to be supportive and the such it is just soooo frustrating!
Hi Lost,
Prozac is one of the antidepressants that affect the neurotransmitter serotonin...so maybe H's doctor felt H neeed a diferent a/d..usually the doses are started low and titrated upwards to avoid side effects. Stll, they all take about 3 weeks to build up to levels that will affect mood.
It sometimes takes a trial of several antidepressants to find the right fit. The fact that your H is still going to the doctor and actively trying to help is depression is a big plus. My H gave up on that(doesn't believe in drugs...married to a pharmacist..go figure).
There is something to be said about the placebo affect...if H believes these medications will help, they may be more likely to help...
There's new research looking at what really is underlying depression and it may not be just the neurotransmitter levels that we currently treat now..but the neuron pathways that need to be rebuilt..anyway..still lots to learn about depression in the medical community. I'm sure there will be new treatments down the road...
Living with a depressed person is really hard..hard to be supportive and be rebuffed, hard to not get sucked into the sadness vortex...hard to 'put on a happy face'...but keep at it. It does get better and the detachment comes with lots of practice...focus on what YOU have, on what makes YOU happy.
Its hard to feel like you are turning away from a loved one in pain. But you are not. You love your H, but you can't fix his depression. You can love him with healthy detachment and support his choices that are helping him feel better without feeling responsible. Because YOU are not responsible for where he is. He has his own journey right now.
Sometimes there's nothing else to do in order to survive and help your kids..You need to be the lighthouse and keep your light on. You're doing fine!
thank you !
even if it is able to help him a little bit...all i am hoping for, so HE can start to feel better.
hi KJ!
I have talked to a few friends about prozac...all have had the same to say...that it is a strong drug.whoa! is there any truth behind that?
I hope you are doing well! it is going to be about 70 degrees here today! yeah! myself and my sil are taking the girls to the zoo!
hugs!
Hi Lost,
I really don't consider Prozac and "stronger" than any other antidepressant. It may work for some and not others. The dose that works for some people varies with others. As with any medication, I think the physician ordering it needs to stay involved and get feedback from the patient throughout treatment..
Hope the zoo was fun! Sounds like great weather!
We had a good snow here yesterday, but today was sunny and much of it has melted. Tomorrow should be armer(50-60!) D14 left for Disney World with the H.S. Marching band..so D12 and I are going to take a snowboard lesson tomorrow.
H is sending more emails..friendly in tone..mostly about the kids, but not always..wishing me a safe drive yesterday..
I'm at a place where I am letting go more and more, emotionally. Doing a lot of inner work and thought on everything that's happened. Getting a lot of the same messages from different sources-so that affirming!
Planning to have a great spring break. Looking forward to Spring!
Well spring break is here..weather was great yesterday-D12 and I took our first snowboarding lesson and had a great time. Supposed to get almost 2 feet of snow between tonight and tomorrow! So much for the 60 degree weather I thought we'd have this week...
H emailed me yesterday that he wanted to spend time with D12. I responded with our few plans we had for the rest of the week and that H could see or spend time with the girls anytime. His response was "Really??"
I have no response and will not respond to his one-word email.
Makes me sad. H's lawyer is wanting H to basically get half my monthly pay for the next 3 years under the justification that H stayed home with the girls so I could further my career for the last 12 years...which I will vent here - is truly garbage, and not based on reality.
The whole premise that H was purely a stay-at-home dad, unable to build his business(he never advertised!), doing what stay-at-home mom's do is so far from the truth. H probably made dinner 20 times in 8 years, maybe..He didn't clean the house, but did do laundry..I became the breadwinner which allowed H to indulge in his dream of having his own business, which I really believed in..he was there when the kids came home from school when they were litle, but after awhile, his client meetings would happen at anytime..and the girls would fend for themselves. I would take time off work to take the girls to doctor appointments the last few years he lived with us, because if I asked him if he could do it, I would be disrespecting his career.
The rewriting of history has always gotten to me, but when it comes out of a lawyer's office I just feel ill.
I'm going to have to pay alot of money for an expert to evaluate what H could be making in his business...money that I don't have. This all just makes me stressed and sick.
I'm trying to really strengthen my compassionate thinking. Trying not to see H as the enemy, but when I feel threatened it is so hard. Just very sad about how this divorce is going(so far from what H said it would be like...that he didn't want anything...blah blah blah).
I'm having a hard time seeing any possible future with H after going through this divorce where I and the girls will end up losing so much(financially, emotionally, not to mention time with the girls). I just can't see how people get past this kind of stuff although I'm still trying.
So are you taking off work this week, too? I'm glad you get to spend some time with your D12!
I can imagine all that rewriting of history does make you feel ill. Do you think it is your H behind it all or the L trying to bargain as much out as he can? Is your L helpful in anything to counter with? Uggh. So sorry!
((((hugs)))
I'm off through 3/30. I have to ask for vacaton a year ahead of time and have always asked for the time of the kids' spring break off, so that we could go somewhere as a family.
About the rewriting..I guess I imagined that H gave his version of the history to his lawyer. But it seems somewhat embellished from anything I've heard H describe. H never told me that he was home so I could further my career(which as a pharmacist, there's not much to further, unless I go back to school!) The length of time that H stayed home has been exagerrated..so I think some of it must be from his lawyer.
My lawyer sent our counteroffer to H's lawyer today. In it he states that I do not agree with H's version of history...that I'm solely supporting the girls right now..I think it was a well-crafted response. I just feel H's lawyer is one of those guys that tries to play hard-ball and rack up fees in the process. Not the kind of process H had said he'd want for a divorce...but its what he has.
With the snowstorm we're getting, I told D12 we may not drive to Moab on Sunday..it would depend on the roads. I also said I wasn't sure what I could afford right now since I need to pay some money to my lawyer..she got upset and went on a rant how her dad screwed everything up, how we lived in a great neighborhood, in a great house and had money to do things and now we live in a small condo and are broke...she had alot of anger towards H..I just listened. I don't feel like defending H to his children anymore or making excuses. I defended him all of last year and H got his second chance with the girls and blew it with D12 when he moved out again.
Its sad that H hasn't tried to really talk to D12, but I don't think he has a clue about the effects this as all had on the girls,even though D12 has at least shared her anger with him...
So H just called, to check on me and D12 since the roads are getting bad. He thought if we were out he could pick us up since my rental car probably can't handle this snow too well. It was nice of him to call-very unexpected-haven't talked to him in a long time it seems.. Funny he had no clue we were going to get this storm-he really doesn't pay attention to the news anymore(except financial news). Still in a fog...and now snowstorm!
Can you talk to your H about the L
and try to come up with an acceptable settlement for both of you
im sure you may have already done this but I wasnt sure
Yes the L will try to rack up fees unfotunately and at 350 an hr or more the fees add up fast
but it did help my situatyion when I talked things thru with H
there was fighting hanging up ect but eventually we signed and if we had not discussed it at length with all the fighting in betweeen hangups, im not sure if the L would ahve come to an agreement
His L would always twist words and take off important matters in the papers
and it weas unacceptable
peace
HI Peace,
I've tried talking to my H, but it never goes well since he is usually in a defensive/angry place with anything to do with the divorce.
I'm thinking of just asking him if his lawyer is sending him my lawyer's emails(as mine is doing)so he can see where the conversation is heading...
H unfriended me on facebook sometime in the last few days. When I figured out that I had one less friend and who it was, it hurt, so I know I'm not fully detached. This is the anniversary week of us meeting and going on our first date 22 years ago. The man who has said he would always be my friend can't even be my friend on facebook!
Its so stupid that these trivial things could hurt so much. It would be so much eaasier just to believe he is an evil person bent on hurting me..but I know he isn't evil. I don't see him hurting so its hard for me to be compassionate. It feels like he just wants my money and assets and to cut me out of his life forever.
Part of me wants to let him know that his 'unfriending' me hurt. I want him to know his actions affect(and often hurt) me. I have no hope of this marriage being salvaged. Why would I want to be married to someone whose actions hurt me, hurt the children and show no empathy or care? I guess I'll just sit with these feelings for awhile and see where that leads to.
H unfriended me on facebook sometime in the last few days.
Did he just re-friend you?
OP
He did. I emailed him some financial info and said I noticed he unfriended me and that I felt hurt. Short, simple.
He responded that he had unfriended me when he was drunk after reading emails from or lawyers..he was hurt that my lawyer decribed my feelings that H could be making more money..blah blah blah...
So I called H to clear the air. We had two conversations this morning, the second one was good. My H said he would always be my friend, he would always care for me... So he "refriended" me...
I plan to still stay dim, but when H isn't reactive and defensive as he was during our first conversation, he seems more like the true H I know him to be... As H says 'he can be offensive when drunk'..the sad thing is he used to never get drunk..thats a sad, new development within his MLC.
It's obvious he's doing everything he can to make the pain go away. (divorce, drinking)
That's what makes this so frustrating. They have to figure it out on their own. Praying for you K. Take care
You're right D. Drinking, divorce, defensiveness, what else can I think of?...to avoid the pain within.
The thing that has always confounded me during this journey are the times when H sounds like 'himself', rational, thoughtful, even slightly empathetic ;)- makes me think that maybe H is 'sane' and really just doesn't want to be married to me anymore and I'm the one in deep denial.
Then H is irrational, defensive and reactive, acting juvenile and I can believe in MLC and see that perhaps I am the saner one at the moment...
So today I saw both Jekyll and Hyde, so-to-speak..H felt himself escalating during our first conversation, called a time-out and said he'd call me back in 10 minutes, which he did...and the second conversation was with my 'real' H..Kind of odd. Emotional for me. I felt slightly hopeful about a future with H after that second conversation, then just sad- because of the doubt that he is in MLC and maybe I'm just being left and he never loved me.
Those moments of seeing our 'old' spouse are hard-reminding us of what once was, of what we are missing...
Ah well..Spring Break is half over. D14 returned home tonight from the marching band trip to Disney, totally sunburned from time at the beach this morning in Florida..and a senior(guy-friend) in marching band asked her to prom..more things to figure out! Not ready for her to go to a prom! She's my baby!...but the adventure continues!
Not ready for her to go to a prom! She's my baby!...but the adventure continues!
Don't fight that, embrace it. I am watching this show on TV - Parenthood. The father is fighting with the 15 YEAR OLD DATING. Not good. From my own experience it never ends. Going thru some stuff with my D23. You think she is an adult and then she acts like a child. I just hope she learned some thing from this last "experience"
kjenson, I know what you mean when you say at times your H appears sane and rational and seems like the one you knew and then goes back to being the alien. I've seen this with my H too. Snodderly told me that yes, they do peek out of the tunnel at times and you will get glimpses of your old H. Then they slip back in to continue their journey.
Have fun shopping for the prom dress!
k, I'm experiencing the same with my WH.
The thing that has always confounded me during this journey are the times when H sounds like 'himself', rational, thoughtful, even slightly empathetic ;)- makes me think that maybe H is 'sane' and really just doesn't want to be married to me anymore and I'm the one in deep denial.
Mine is carring, almost loving sometimes it confuses you when they leash out half an hour later. I also observed that the "nice" is when I'm nice and agreeable to everything he wants. The moment he feels challenged in any way he leashes out.
Then H is irrational, defensive and reactive, acting juvenile and I can believe in MLC and see that perhaps I am the saner one at the moment...
So true
Those moments of seeing our 'old' spouse are hard-reminding us of what once was, of what we are missing...
Also reminds me that the person I love is still in there somewhere
K
You know that is one of the things I've been struggling with. You see the old spouse but they still want no part of you so you start to think "Are they just done?". I think that's why it's important to be detached all the time. When I see my old wife, I get sucked back in so easily and then when the MLC behaviors start again, I get crushed. I have to remind myself it's all part of the journey.
D-You're right. Detachment is key or it is so easy to get sucked in! I know I am definitely more detached than a year ago, but I know I still have a ways to go. Distance, physical distance, has helped. Not seeing H daily or knowing what he is up to has helped. Continually reminding myself that there is no going back, only forward, that this is a journey he MUST take on his own..this all helps.
Focusing on ourselves and our children helps.
OP-As far as the prom stuff.. I have to say a 9th grader(D14) going to the prom with a senior, worries me a little. D14 says she is just good friends with this boy, and that he is very childlike/innocent..but the age/experience difference and the prom environment itself..worry me some. I'm going to try and gather info about what is planned, get H's input, before I say 'YES' or 'NO'-which was my first knee-jerk reaction. D14 is a very sensible girl(most of the time!), and wise beyond her years on many things..but I know sometimes she doesn't tell me the whole truth...so we shall see.
KJ,
Only you can decide, not me, I have my share of my own problems. Just trying to give you another point of view.
If you get a chance watch the show - Parenthood. You can relate. Its on Tuesday on NBC.
I have to say a 9th grader(D14) going to the prom with a senior, worries me a little. D14 says she is just good friends with this boy, and that he is very childlike/innocent..but the age/experience difference and the prom environment itself..worry me some.
Being a mom of a 16-year old. I can relate. The boy may be nice and innocent but he has hormones as any other 17-year old. She is only 14 and very impressionable especially by older boys. Mine was. Maybe a good approach would be to meet him and talk to him about how you feel (scare him to death) and also talk to his parents. Anyway that's what I would do first, before deciding.
Good ideas Mila. I have to say D14 is an unusual girl for her age-hates drama, isn't really 'boy crazy'..has mostly guy-friends rather than girlfriends b/c she hates drama..
OP- Have watched Parenthood-it is a good show..
I also have been enjoying the Marriage Ref-pretty funny what people have major fights over...enjoy the humorous look at marital conflict!
Found out from my lawyer that H's biggest worry in this divorce is that he won't have 50/50 custody of the girls..bigger worry than the money-which is what the lawyers have been focusing on...
D12 had a meltdown tonight and even though she's rebuffing any efforts by H to connect with her, she is so very hurt that H doesn't keep trying to connect with her.. She worries that I will leave her...I keep reinforcing in behavior and words that I'm not going anywhere..Anytime she feels rejected by me or D14 she has an over-the-top reaction. I hope she'll consider therapy someday soon, it would so help her deal with these issues. It seems so much for a twelve-year-old to deal with on her own.
I'm keeping a PMA and looking forward to a short road trip to Moab on this weekend with my girls.
KJ I feel for your D12, I think she would benefit from therapy. At least have her talk to a school councilor, my D16 did. Her world has turned upsides down, she feels insecure. Good that you are reinforcing safety and security by reassuring her that she will always have you.
The weekend with your girls will be great for bonding of your "new" family unit. Have lots of fun.
even though she's rebuffing any efforts by H to connect with her, she is so very hurt that H doesn't keep trying to connect with her..
It's like he needs to prove it to her. Right? They need to
know they matter. At least your H's biggest concern is 50/50 custody.
In a way both mine seem to feel this. Could be I'm projecting, but I know my girls.
(((KJ)))
Enjoy your trip with your girls. Getting a change of scenery will be good.
I hope your D12 will consider therapy. She does sound like she is having a tough time. Maybe one day your H will wake up enough to realize WHY she is so upset at him. They truly are in a fog, aren't they?
Glad to see he re-friended you on FB.:) My H blocked me almost a year ago and hasn't used FB since. So very strange.
We're coming home tomorrow. So far the trip has been OK-some meltdowns (D14 has the worst sunburn from her Florida trip and now a sinus infection!)..but overall a good trip.
Before we left town I spoke to H and asked him if I should pay for D12's summer trip out of our money market..he said.."Just do what you want"..in a tone like I would do what I want anyway..so I didn't feel too good about that and have "done" nothing. I will wait for it to be agreed upon in our temporary orders this week.
Its hard being on this trip without H, he and I have been to Moab so often together, before we were married and after. Lots of memories here. But its nice to spend time with the girls.
I think I'm still going through the steps of grieving..I'm thinking it takes a long time! But I start the Rebuilding class on Sunday so hopefully that will help me process this loss more completely.
I talked to D14 about therapy and although she says she doesn't think it will help her, she said she'd go if I wanted her to..such a far cry from her sister's reaction! So we'll see.
Hoping to make the last night here a good one. Off to Arches!
KJ,
Glad you are getting some time to spend with your girls. I'm sure it must be hard to be there without your H but it's good you are able to build new family memories.
I hope your D12 will be willing to go to therapy at some point. I know it just breaks your heart to see her struggling with something that was not your choice or theirs.
Enjoy your last night away!
So back in the swing of things. Saw H tonight at D14's concert and he sat next to me...thought he smelled of beer-but not sure. He left right after the concert without seeing D14.
Later I texted him some financial info we'd talked about and he got all defensive and thought I was putting him down because I didn't say "Hi" in my text first(which was possibly rude, but not a put-down!)..oversight on my part..
Oh well, The more he is like this, the less I like him. I'm tired of having everything I say or do be construed negatively, no matter how careful I am about what I say or do!
Onward and Forward. I think it will be a good day when I just AM, without thinking of how H might take what I say or do. Need to take back that power I've inadvertantly given him over my emotions!
Hi KJ,
Onward and Forward. I think it will be a good day when I just AM, without thinking of how H might take what I say or do. Need to take back that power I've inadvertently given him over my emotions!
It takes time doesn't it...this is my challenge as well...I still try to please HIM over "what's good for me" at times...how stupid is that...
KJ - Hope you are able to get to that point soon, where you don't think about what you say and do in terms of your H. He certainly doesn't sound like he is being very rational right now.
Enjoy your weekend!
Hi KJ-
Yes, the Rebuilding class will help you process so much; I'm really glad you signed up. There will be a person from my class, Nancy who is volunteering...she's terrific.
So sorry for all this in your life. Keep moving forward and on to you new life.
Hope to meet in person soon!
Hi GG-
Went to the first class tonight and I think Nancy was one of the volunteers whi spoke a few times-there were quite a few volunteers from the same class(I think last session).
Feel good about it and am looking forward to getting past the grief/anger I've been feeling.
Easter was weird/fun/new... Hid the eggs this morning before the girls got up. H and I always used t fill the eggs and hide them together so he weird part was doing it all alone. Even though they are "teens" this is the one thing they both said they wanted to still do for Easter...
We had a nice breakfast and I had fun watching them find the eggs in our new home and we all had a good time reminiscing about when they were little. Had my mom over for lunch then the girls went to a movie with their father.
Nice day.
Glad you had a nice day! Last year was the first time I was doing the whole Easter egg hiding/Easter basket thing by myself and it was hard. Still, all these things, once you have done them and survived, it does get easier.
I hope the rebuilding class is helpful. Being able to move past those negative feelings would be so good!
Might be something in this class for you..seems like there are people in all phases of relationships, separated, divorced, divorcing, mourning the loss of the old relationship/evaluating the relatonship... seems like there's alot to work through and get out of this group class. Lots of support.
I might have to think about that at some point. It will be interesting to watch and see what happens here.
The rebuilding class holds something for everyone; I got so much out of it. I feel like I have a whole new family of support now! You'll have to keep me informed as to how you like it. There will be lots of opportunities to get together with the other members of your class. I didn't really feel like going out so I didn't do much of that and I wish I had. Just a thought....
Sounds like you had a wonderful Easter and the weather was beautiful, wasn't it? Glad you continued the Easter egg *hunt* for your girls.
Have a great day!
KJ
I said it before, I'll say it again.
you're a rock.
Hi KJ! wanted to peek in and see how you were!
Awesome about the class...dont like to see you in that spot but im glad you are doing it! for you!!!
know im thinking about ya!!!
K - I've been attending the rebuilding classes that are offered through my divorce/separation support group. Now that my WH wants to R, I have been contemplating if I should continue. I think that I will at least for now.
Hi Mila,
It seems like alot of the people at these classes are in all kinds of places: thinking about separating/divorce, in the middle of getting a divorce, been divorced for awhile and dealing with the aftermath...
I think in a way this class is a nice complement to the divorce-busting model-getting a life, figuring out what went wrong/how you contributed, looking at harmful patterns/polarizations in order to avoid them in the future..looking inwardly rather than externally for help/growth... So..I think even though things are improving with you H, its only going to help YOU by continuing the class and if it helps YOU then it can help the R.
Looking at your time frame of events...be aware its all happening pretty fast for your H to come around and stay.....My H did the same thing after OW dumped him(came home/made an effort)...but 6 months later he filed for divorce even though we were in MC and I thought doing pretty well....
Looking back with a little more persepective-I think my H came home too soon after the OW. I don't think he ever made a formal recomittment to me or really made a good effort in MC with our "homework". I think he still is dealing with guilt and was projecting alot of his shame onto me-as if it was coming from me(which it was not)... He is still very lost in some ways, right now.
So..just remember to take care of YOUrself!
Oh..Just thought I'd let you all know who've been reading along with me this past year...
I was in the hair salon on Saturday with D12. She got a haircut and I got some color...In walks the OW and her two children!
I knew OW went to the same salon, although usually on Fridays. My hairstylist, who is a friend, knew of my situation and looked at me in the mirror and mouthed (Oh!)..
I recognized OW from her FB picture and the fact that she had a tattoo on her calf(the first thing I saw and it just clicked who she was)...
I don't think she noticed or knew me or D12...It just threw me. Brought some emotions of hurt and rejection to the surface that I thought had really diminished more, but I did OK. Didn't interact with her and left with D12 when I was done.
Outside I asked D12 if she knew who the lady was with the (loud) kids-only b/c my hairstylist and I had been acting a bit funny after seeing OW and D12 had been watching OW and her kids closely while waiting for me...D12 didn't recognize OW ... but when I told her the lady was OW, D12 said "You should smash her car!" D12 has such anger! I said I wasn't angry(and I wasn't!) and that forgiveness is important and I hoped she would get there someday. I explained that H and I were not getting a divorce b/c of OW. I reminded D12 that H had moved home and we were doing OK but H still had some growing to do and couldn't do it married to me... She settled down a bit. I hope she does learn to forgive her father someday soon.
Oh my K, that must have been though to run into the OW. You did a great job explaining the situation to your D. It's not always easy to stay positive and to be objective when it comes to the OP. You don't have to (and I don't) hate her but I certainly don't think much of her character.
You are doing all the right things, you should be proud of yourself.
K - I'm very much "on guard" with my H. He's been in MLC for about 4 years and I already went through one false reconciliation.
It may seem that my situation is progressing fast, but it's been already a year since his affair started. The first 6 months I didn't know about it, but my H was already gone and I felt it, I was fighting a loosing battle, not knowing why his behavior towards me has changed so much and I was trying to turn it around and it just wasn't working.
Once I found out about the affair it all blew to pieces, I cried, begged, pleaded, negotiated....all the wrong things, nothing helped - he left for the first time. Came back month and half later when OW wouldn't leave her H, said all the right things but didn't keep any promises, wouldn't work on R, continued lying and the contact with OW continued throughout his false comeback. I had a very strong gut feeling that it wasn't over.
When she finally decided to leave her H, he left again. He was just waiting for her the whole time. By that time I was DBing, I stopped fighting it and told him that he is free to go.
For the next 3 months they had what they wanted all along. They have left their families and were together...were they happy? No. The fairy-tail "love" started to unravel and they both looked miserable. My guess is that the rose colored glasses came off and the reality had sunk in. OW is back home with her H and my H wants to R.
The way he behaves now feels 100% different from the first time he wanted to come home. It "feels" right. But of course I'm worried. I told him that I still love him, but he has to work out all of his "demons" first. He is definitely in depression. I'm watching and taking it slowly. He may be out of Replay, but he is not done with his MLC. I'm hoping that we can do the rest of that Journey together.
Wishing you all the best, I sure hope that both of us will be successful in saving our marriages, but I also know that we will be OK in any case.
KJ - You handled running into OW well. I think I would have felt more like your D in wanting to smash her car.:) Your D (both of them actually) have a lot they need to process and work through and it will take time, probably a lot. You did a great job explaining to her that OW was not the reason you were getting a D. I know you wish your H would wake up and see the pain that he is causing.
I hope you are doing well and are healing.
(((hugs)))