stella: dancing in limbo - DivorceBusting.com

Dear all!

I haven't posted in a while and tried to let go and GAL. But now I need to vent again $\:\)$

If you remember, I've told H to stop calling me every day and to limit his visitations. As a matter of fact, I've told him not to visit at all, unless it's emergency. I explained, in a calm and friendly tone, that it HURTS me very much to have chit chats with him and to meet him face to face too often. That I would like to MOVE ON WITH MY LIFE. H was sad but very understanding. He was still calling and coming over, but much much less.
Then, three weeks ago, he came over to pick up something he needed.
I offered tea, I always do. And while having tea I started a R talk (2x4!), telling him that doesn't matter how hard I try, it
still hurts very much just to see him. And, suddenly, I was crying. H came over and gave me a hug. He said: I love you. And I said: AND I LOVE YOU! WHY ARE YOU DOING IT TO US THEN?!
And then we were hugging and crying together, exactly the way I always thought it would happen. He asked me if I can hold just a bit longer, he's going to end it with OW (spider), because he's very unhappy and it's all WRONG, and we belong together. And silly me believed - again! AFTER 2 years 2 months I can still be that stupid. Unbelievable!

And then - you guessed it.

Next day - nothing.
Day after the next - nothing!
On the third day he's calling and I'm asking him (2x4!!) what's going on?! And listen to the alien BS: oh, I don't know... I'm so confused...

Then he's coming over - drunk. He's hugging me again. An alien - but a friendly one. Doesn't know what to do. I ask him if he's changed his mind again - no, he didn't. He just doesn't know what to do.
Long story short - hugs, ILYs, R convo, all faded out. I stopped asking him ?s and I feel like he's dragged me into this stupid pretending game again.
Once again he's calling whenever he wants to, telling me about his day, money talk, small talk. I don't ask if he's going to break up with OW and he (happily) doesn't tell me a thing.
I feel like I've been thrown off the cliff again.
He has me exactly where he wants me.
It's been more than 3 weeks since the "I'm going to break up with her" convo.
He called today, usual, his work, money, as if he was calling a good old friend.
I had to use all my self control to remain quiet. I created a very akward silence, more than once. All my nerves were screaming! I just wanted so badly to say FU and hang up and never talk to him again.
I don't want to be his friend!
It means, I've never really let go, right?
I only pretended...
I'm so confused...
I don't know what to do

:D.

My H is just too much for me.

Any thoughts, please?

Stella,
I'm sorry Hun it really stinks for him to get your hopes up like that but no matter how hard it is...quit asking him.
We never really let go. I know I haven't and I see my w everyday.
Heck she is still at home but she says she's going to move out.
Anyways if he comes over and wants hugs then maybe its time to give him a half hug or to say NO.
He's saying what you want to hear. Don't let it happen Hun.
DB and PMA just don't let him win unless he really does boot the OW to the curb.
Stay Strong!

Stella,
Hi, I've never posted to you. I've lurked in this forum some, I post in infidelity. I'm not sure I've ever read you sitch before, but it is remarkably similar to mine. My H has been "crazy" since 10/06, we separated then. We have had many false reconciliations. It is so hard, I understand completely where you are. You distance yourself from them and then they draw you back into their web. Our ages of us and our spouses are even the same. I also have a DD17, but I have DD20 too.

My H doesn't live with OW, but she works for him. I really don't think they are involved anymore, but can't be 100% sure since we are separated.

They say misery loves company, I just wanted to let you know that you definitely have company. I'm going to try to catch up on your previous posts.

Yoyo

Hi, Gman!

Thanks, and nice to meet you :).

If I had to see him every day, I'd have gone CRAZY, honestly!
I'm not that strong.

I can hardly stand listening to his voice every now and then.

He said he's going to dump her, because I started crying... And, of course, it was exactly what I wanted to hear! I feel like a newbie

Sorry, Yoyo, I didn't see your post...

I'm not posting recently, but I'm lurking a lot. I think I remember reading your posts, I need to read them again.

Thanks for offering me your company

!

Stella,
Is your DD17 a junior or senior? Mine is a senior. Both of my girls have grown up way too fast!

Oh, I should change the info...

She is 18 now and she's gone to college already. Just like you said - way too fast!

She's been there 5 months now, as long as H and I are S. Sigh...

Stella, It seems that going dark gives your H a jolt.

But you're initiating R conversations--have you thought about NOT doing that and trying to hold firm on your "dark?"

Dear Breton,

you're right. I should've known better after all the time I've spent on BB...

I don't know what's gotten into me.

Going dark has never been a problem for me. I never (and I mean - never) call H, he always calls me. But then we meet, which is always his initiative, and I start losing my cool.
He looks at me LOVINGLY, he is so attentive, caring, I feel how CLOSE we are, my hopes go up and stay there... LOL.

Every time I detach, there he goes, saying things like "I don't love her", "I had a dream that nothing has happened and we're still together and I woke up so happy" and, of course, I forget everything I've learned in such a hard way and respond to it accordingly.

My H has never been cruel, at least not intentionally, but he knows he's hurting me badly and he keeps doing it anyway.

I know for sure that he's terrified of OW's suicidal tendencies.
She has made an attempt already - not to take her life, if you ask me, but to manipulate H into coming back to her - and now he's afraid of her ending it for real. She is desperate and her clynginess surpasses everything I could imagine. And my H is definitely having a saviour complex.

I'm dying to ask him all these ?s: did you talk to her? did she threaten you again? did you have a change of heart again? Are you going to stay with her OUT OF FEAR? What kind of a life is that?

I won't ask, of course, but they keep buzzing in my head.

Hi Stella.

I can relate. This whole thing is pointless, isn't it?

I am wondering why you don't just ask the questions you want? You don't have to turn it into an R talk---just listen and offer no input.

I have done the same as you- go with the flow and get my heart broken again and again. I get the same stuff, (ex) "I had a dream about you and you were with someone else...it was awful!"- yet no move towards me, just more running.

I asked few questions because I told myself I was DBing, but in reality I was afraid of the answers. Answers might have had to make me face reality, and as long as he was stringing me along I could believe that he would be back some day.

This isn't fair to either of us. I know it hurts... after all this time I am just allowing myself to feel the pain... but we have to put hope on the back burner. I know you say you don't initiate. The next step is to not even answer.

It is very telling that you say your H isn't cruel- after all, he is gently trying to extract himself from a suicidal OW. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but he IS cruel. What he is doing to you is ridiculous. Since he isn't man enough to stop it, you need to.

And now I will copy this down as I need to take my own advice! Why is it so easy to see it in someone else's situation???

Hi CMNM, thank you for posting to me!

Quote:

I am wondering why you don't just ask the questions you want? You don't have to turn it into an R talk---just listen and offer no input.

I guess I'm not asking because remember that with MLC we cannot speed up the process, but we can always slow ir down, by cornering them into answering our questions, for instance...

Quote:

I know you say you don't initiate. The next step is to not even answer.

I can do that. The problem is, we have to communicate sometimes,so we do - quite calm and friendly - and then he manages to say something to give me hope again. My fault, I know, shouldn't have had any expectations. But I cannot help seeing progress: September our S starts, he says he never comes back, wants D. October, he says he doesn't wantb a D, starts calling more often. November, calling every day, visiting once a week, says he doesn't love OW. December, I try to limit calls and visitations, he persists. January - he tells me he's going to dump OW, he loves me, and then starts running and hiding. Feb - nothing, nada.

May be I can set a secret deadline, for myself, not for H, and just let him stew until then. Oh well, I cannot think clearly at the moment with all the emotions running amok.

thanks (((all))) for your support!

I cant believe I missed your thread, sorry $\:\($
You and Lisa both popped up lately, it must this time of the year again, just about right, a year ago we were having soooo much fun... I missed you too.

So, you want my 2 cents on this? But I am not going to be in a very DBing mode. Here it is: Your H is spineless just as most WAHs here, he thought the grass was greener but he realized it isnt really. He has got himself trapped, probably has promised the OW a lot more than he is willing to give, still loves you but isnt man enough to end it once and for all with her and make a fresh start with you. As long as he feels you 'waiting" he is not going to find the courage to end it with her unless she makes a big mistake, push him for something or cheat on him (would serve him good btw). So my suggestion is, move on as you have been trying to do, make sure he feels it and consider him gone. If that wakes him up, fine, if not, then it's time to cut your losses and be happy again. We have a tendency to excuse and explain why they act the way they do but the truth is they are grown ups and should be able to behave as grown ups. Face the consequences for their actions.
Love
K

Do you know OW? What is she like? Single, divorced, kids?

Hey, ((((Kalni mou))))!

I only have a minute now - so:

OW is single (Dd), my age, useless, manipulative, clingy and DESPERATE for a man in her life. No children, no career, needless to say no morals. She will fight tooth and nail to keep her prey. Apparently, smart. That's all I know.

Yes, spineless men

!

Talk to you later, love!

So, Lisa is back?!

((((Oh Stella)))),

H is doing it to you again. You know what you have to do. You have to go dark until he completely ends it with OW once and for all. Do not allow H to keep drawing you back into his drama.
Please take care of yourself first Stella.

Hi Stella,

Glad you see you back on the boards!! Just wanted to say hi & let you know I'm thinking about you!!

What your H is doing would drive me crazy too & I'd probably do the same thing you are doing. Hang in there & do what is right for you!!!

((((HUGS))))

(((((Addie))))! (((((nlt))))!

I'm so happy to "see" you, guys!

Remember, how much time we used to spend on the boards?!

Yes, Addie, H is doing it again. It is strange, how I have this urge to defend him, still! MLC takes everything from these men (and women) - their careers, their dignity, their principles - everything goes.

I feel like I constantly have to remind myself of the great guy he used tobe, not to let this person go into oblivion.

Now I'll tell you what I've done yesterday. We have a MF of many years who fought ferociously against H moving in with OW (H confided in him a lot back then). He has stopped all the contact with H since H started living with OW. H seemed not to notice MFs abscence from Hs life.
Then two weeks ago H has asked me about MF, how he's doing and whether I see him sometimes. I said, he's fine and yes, I do, why? H said, just so. A couple of days ago he asked me again: have you heard from MF recently? Once again, out of the blue.
As far as I remember, there is "reconnection with old friends" in the last stage of MLC. So I started wondering - why all of a sudden H is so interested in MF's whereabouts?
So yesterday I called MF and asked him over for dinner. Of course we spoke about H most of the time. MF says he still cannot believe H's choice. When I tild him about H's recent "decision" to dump the OW and come back, MF said H reminds him of a little boy "playing outside" and not noticing that he's frosen, hungry and tired. But as long as his Mom is calling him , he's wanting to stay and play just a bit longer.
I said, I'm not calling him anymore.
Anyway, I ended up asking MF to initiate contact with H and see if H wants to talk. MF said, he will do it for me.
Unfortunately, he's leaving the town for two weeks, so he'll call H when he's back.
Meanwhile I'm going to stay away from H as much as possible.
I didn't return his last two calls and I have no intention to see him any time soon.

And I feel much better

.

(((((Hugs)))) to all.

Hello (((all))).

I want to share a story, I find it inspiring!

I've met my childhood friend last week, we were very close since pre-school and then we've lost track of each other for nearly 15 years. A few years ago someone told me my F was Dd. She got M very early, she was only 20 and her H was 19. I loved them both and the news saddened me very much. However when we'met she mentioned her H casually as if they were still together. Of course I wanted details!

Now yesterday she came over for tea. It turned out her H had a MLC in 2001, after 25 years of M.
Pink and orange shirts, new car, secret account (while she and D17 were struggling), alien look, OW, you name it. He kept lying about the A for a year, then OW CALLED my F (!), the truth came out and her H left. My friend pushed for D and in 2002 it was final (now she says she regrets it).

And then she started DBing! My F never heard of DB, she just felt like it was right thing to do. She had terrible meltdowns, but never in front of her H. He was coming over all smartened up and acting a very happy man. She acted as if, listened to him, validated his feelings ("you never loved me. Your D was first, then your Mom, then your cat" $\:D$ ) and GAL. D17 took it so badly, she refused to speak with her dad. They were both devastated, but slowly it started to get easier for both of them. She met a guy who was very much interested in her but she turned him down, told him she's still in love with her H. I guess it helped her PMA though. During the 4th year of separation F and D moved into a new home. By then D was in college and was sharing a flat with friends, so my F was pretty much on her own.

Two weeks after the move, H came over and wanted to stay a night. She never asked a que - what a woman! - but let him stay in a spare room. He remained there for a few days, no R talk, nothing. Obviously very much embarassed. My F went about minding her own business and pretty much ignoring his presence. Finally he received a phone call, spent an hour locked in the room with his cell and left. All that without a word. A week later he reappeared, carrying a suitcase, went right into his room and stayed there for another week. His wife kept ignoring his presence, being friendly but distant, offering him dinner when she was cooking, never asking a thing.
After 3 weeks of going back and forth (every time bringing more of his stuff), he stayed. After a while he asked my F if she'd remarry him and she said NO. She explained that the D hit her so hard, she just won't be able to survive another one. I think she wanted to make sure he's back for real.
It's been 3 years now and they're still together and they're good! The only thing which is not so good is that he took to drinking while in MLC and he's still drinking too much...
My F has told me: Stella, now is YOUR time, try to enjoy it. I understand that you want your H back so badly, you can hardly think about anything else. But once your H's back, you start missing the "Me" time a lot!

Next week I'm going to their place for dinner and staying overnight, I'm so curious to see them together! May be I can even talk to him separately and hear his part ogf the story.

wow ! great story ! I'm happy for your friend, and it just goes to show, miracles DO happen ! x

Stella,
What an inspiring story! Thank you for sharing it with us. It will give many LBS's much needed hope.

Thank you, Cinders :)!

I think it was also a miracle that she could do all the right things by herself, just following her gut feelings!

Happy Valentine's, everyone!

((((Addie)))), I didn't see your post, sorry.

Yes, it gave me hope too!

(((Stellitsa-mou))))

Just wanted to say hello and that I'm reading. Great story of your friends, BTW!

One thing I wondered- you mentioned in one of your posts that your friend said that you want H bac so badly that you think about it a lot (or something to that effect?). I wonder, could you be transmitting some of that want to your H at all? They can smell these things, so I've heard so I'm just wondering if working hard on detaching and not thinking about his coming home migh help things a bit....

Anyway, I hope you're having a great day!

L. xx

((((Lisa-mou))))!

I AM transmitting it to my H, I know that.

I'm working on the detachment but, being the slow learner, I'm not very successful. sigh. Many times I fooled myself into thinking that I've done it and then I'd start all that stupid "wanting" again. At the moment I feel good, though. Let's hope it will last.

Stella,
Your friend's situation was quite a lot like JeanS' situation a few years back. Notice how they come and go and each time, bring a little bit more back home. It's almost like a reversal of what they did when they left.

It's an inspiring story and it happens each and every day, just as your friend shared w/you. Some return immediately and others tend to creep and haul things back piece meal.

Thank you for sharing.

Hello Snodderly!

I'm so happy to see you on my thread :)!

My H has gone dark recently and I do not expect him on my doorstep carrying suitcase anytime soon. But I cannot help imagining things like that

and I wonder if I would pass the test?

I think my friend handled it marvelously, with great strength and great wisdom.

Stella,
Your friend did a beautiful job of handling her situation.

One never knows how they will handle such a situation until the day it happens.

Keep the light burning in the window to help him find his way home and soon.

Dear Snodderly,

I will keep the light in the window and I hope the moth will get attracted $\:\)$ !

...and probably burn itself on the light. LOL!!!
How are you girlfriend? How is life, how is your D by the way?
xxxx
K

Stella, dont beat yourself up to much for feeling like you do. Your h is giving you mixed signals. I feel like newbie often and then I remember what the oldtimers told me then.

I say it to myself, it helps. No expectations, no R talk, GAL, PMA, do not initiate contact and if he does keep it short.

I think I am going to put it to music and make a song of it.

Hang in there, you are doing great!

Hey (((Kalni))) and (((Beginners)))!

Thanks for checking on me.

I'm a bit blue today, so I've written a long and whiny post, then I've got disgusted with myself and deleted it.

I spoke with D18 - she's fine, Kalni, thanks! - and she said she wants her family. And I also spoke with H (he called) and he said he was worried about me and asked whether I'm going to be at home tomorrow. He's going to be in the neighbourhood and wants to stop by. And I said NO, I'm not. No yanking my chain anytime soon, thanks (didn't say that, of course).

Nothing new, really.

Beginners, no expectations, no R talk, not initiating contact and keeping it short is easy for me right now.
GAL and PMA is a bit of a problem.

I wonder why does it take me so long to get better?

(((everybody)))

Yeah I hear ya. GAL and PMA are problems for me too. I dont know why it takes some of us so long to get better at this. I know I am going on two years and I still dont get it sometimes.

Thank you for your support, Beginners. Sounds selfish, I know, but I'm glad I'm not the only one having difficulties with GAL and PMA. It's been over two years too...

journaling.

H has a website with loads of pics he's taken and my face used to be all over the place. It's been a while since I checked it out, last time was September, I think. I was afraid of what I may see.
Yesterday, I saw my H's name mentioned on someone's blog, the person was discussing H's photos and there was H's website address and I clicked on it. I was shocked. All my pics are still there. The photo of two of us. The photo with H, me and D18. My portraits.
Not a single one of OW.

???

I'm very happy, of course, but I don't understand. No OW?

Was he too busy to change pics?

Did he forget?

More mixed messages from him?

Today he called my cell asking if I'm home. I said no, I've told you yesterday, I'm not going to be there in the morning. He said, oh, pity, I'm in the neighbourhood, do you mind if I come over and pick up the book I need (he has the key)? I said, sure, go ahead.

When I came home I realized that I have wilted flowers in a vase on the table, right in the middle of the room. I didn't throw them away because I couldn't be bothered . I don't buy flowers for myself and H knows it (these were given to me by FF). I wonder if it looks like VD flowers, too precious to be thrown away $\:D$ . I sure hope H didn;t see it the way it really is: that I'm too depressed to care. Luckily, the rest of the apt was ok, quite tidy.

I've decided to avoid seeing H at all cost, web site notwithstanding. If he wants to see me he has to SAY SO, not the "just happened to be nearby" or "need to pick up my book" crap.

(((everyone)))

PS. he called a minute ago, when I was about to press "submit".
Told me that the shop (the reason he was in the neighborhood) was closed, now he has to come again TUE. I need to make sure I'm gone on Tue as well.

Hi Stella!

I'm catching up, I haven't been posting lately, just been a little down but your story about your friend & her H getting back together was very encouraging!

I think you are doing fine & I'm like you, I'm having a hard time giving up.

((((HUGS))))

Hi friend!
Hope all is going well with "operation disappear".
xxx
K

(((Stellitsa-mou))))

I hope you're having a lovely weekend and that the NC is going well. How are you doing? And how is H doing?!

L. xx

Stella,
With all your H's waffling behaviour, I think NC is the way to go. With OW still in the picture, you need to show your H that you're moving on with your life, that you're not just putting your life on hold to see him whenever he decides.
You can do it Stella!

nlt, kalni, Lisa, addie - hi, friends! Thanks for checking on me and (((((HUGS))))!

Some bad news here.

My mother has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, quite late stage too. I wouldn't say it was unexpected, still devastating news for me. WE've never been close, but I don't think I can put her in a nursing home. I don't have any siblings or near relatives and I feel so alone...

I felt blue all day yesterday and cried a lot. For some strange reason I felt in my heart that my H is gone for good and there is no hope left. Diagnosis of Alzheimer brought the feelings of despair.

H called today and I was very cold. He was talking about his business plans and how he was going to send some money to D18. It was very unfair and I'm very sorry about it, but I was bitter and upset. I said: can you only talk about money?
He said quietly, it sounded as if it just slipped out and he'd like to take it back: it gives me a reason to call.
I wasn't sure I've heard correctly and asked: what?
So he repeated it.
He said good bye really quickly after that.

I don't feel good about what I said, I guess I just wanted to say something hurtful to him.

I'm angry again. I wish I wasn't.

Oh, and I've spent a day at my FF's home where I could observe their interaction with H. I'm a bit disappointed. They are good together and they laugh a lot, but... she is still bitter and her jokes are not always kind when directed at him. He's taking it well but one can feel the resentment deep inside. After dinner FF and I had a chat and I've mentioned it to her. I asked her whether she brings up his A too often. She said: Oh no, I hardly ever (?!). She doesn't seem to realize she's doing it.

(((everybody))), I will post on your threads later, I didn't sleep well and feel tired. And - I don't want to spread the lame mood :).

(((((Stella))))),

I'm so sorry to hear this. I know exactly what you're dealing with as my father has been suffering severe dementia the last several months as well as advanced Parkinson's.
I truly feel for what you're going through. It's not easy to have to deal with an ailing parent as well as a WAS. Your mother needs your strength now more than ever.

HUGS!!!

{{{{{Stella}}}}}

Oh sweetie! I am so sorry about your mom's diagnosis. My grandmother had dementia for 4-6 years before she died and she became so nasty toward almost everyone, except my S3 after he was born.

I know you do not want to consider a nursing home, but I can tell you, from experience, if things are not great between you that it will wear on you and tear you down mentally and physically. I watched it happen to my own mother. She put her entire life on hold in an effort to please my grandmother and nothing ever made the woman happy, no matter what my mom did for her.

Really think through your decision and at least look into some care facilities. Even see if some have daycare like programs, where you might be able to take mom so that you can get a break if you decide to keep her at home. Do a ton of reading on the diagnosis. Be as informed as possible.

As for H, i would leave him hanging in the breeze right now. If he cannot be behind you 100% to support you, you cannot allow him to further drag you down.

We love you, honey hang in there. IF you need a friend to talk to on the phone, feel free to email me in the alt and i will send you my info.

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

Thank you, (((addie))) and (((SMW)))!

I'm going to start reading about Alzheimer, there are some good forums out there. And I will look at the facilities, SMW, just in case. I'm also thinking about part time nurse in the near future. I'm really short of money at the moment and I have to think carefully about what can be done.

When I said I feel alone, I meant I have no family to take care of her/us. It's just me and my mom. Her dementia is not severe yet, but the time will come, and very soon, when I will have to make all health care-related decisions, alone. It frightens me.

I still have to learn not to count on H. Many friends, when told about my mom's condition, offered their help and support. H just said "it's afwul". He sounded as if he didn't really hear me. He's acting very strange recently. He is calling and then doesn't really speak. I'm tired of breaking awkward silences, after all HE is calling me. I cannot help thinking about what MLC stage he might be in, 2x4 me if you will

.

Stella,

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother!!!

Just know that we are here for you!!!

(((HUGS)))

Hey Stella, hope you are ok! Let us know when you can.

Stellitsa mou,
sorry about your mom. I know how it feel to be alone when something like that happens... Does your mom live close to you?

I believe WAS, need time when something like that happens to get over their guilt first before they can reach out to help. And since your mom's condition is diagnosed but from what you say NOT yet really bad, he may think he has time to help out and he intends to do it.
Love always
K

((((nlt, Beginners, Kalni)))), hi and thanks for checking on me.

I'm fighting off the worst 'flu I've had in years. For two days I was delirious with high fever, now I'm just feeling sick in my stomack and struggling with a headache.

I have news, however.

On 26th I've returned from my mom's place (she lives quite far away, Kalni, about an hour by train) and felt horrible. It turned out I had high fever, so I climbed into bed. That's when H has called to tell me about money he's transfered to our D18. When I told him I'm sick he offered to come over and bring me some medicine and fruit. I said, no, there is no need. He insisted and I said ok, come over, then. Then, a friend of mine has called. She offered to bring me vitamins and when I mentioned that H is coming over, she said great, I'll call him and ask him to stop by my place first and take it for you (she's my neighbour). Two hours later, H calls and tells me he's still at the friends' house and will come over soon. Three hours later he finally appeared. I have to remind you that I was going dark again and H was very aloof for a while.
Now he entered, sat on my bed next to me, kissed me on the fourhead and started stroking my hands. Then he's done something
REALLY rare: he started a R talk! He said that he's figured he wants me and only me and he knows what's to be done and he's going to do it. Thanks to high fever I've had the best reaction: none. I only asked if he's sure this time. He said he never changed his mind (???) and that he always told me truthfully how things are between us. I had to remind myself that for those in LALAland time goes differently and their memory is impaired by MLC.
Anyway, once he was gone, the friend has called about her conversation with H. It turned out he came over for vitamins and stayed for a glass of wine, which is strange, as he was avoiding her, since she said some very unpleasant things about OW to H. She also sent him an e-mail "don't you f!!king lose Stella" half a year ago. She was shocked that he stayed and initiated the convo about OW. He said, I cannot live without Stella. I love only her. The next line was a little bit disappointing though: I don't know what to do

.

That's not all.

THe next day another friend (MF) has called. It turned out, H came over to see him after he left me and they ended up having drinks in the city. That's another very close friend with whom H has pretty much lost contact. And - F's wife does not allow H to visit them because of OW :D! So, he tells me the same story, how H has told him that he's unhappy, in hell, hates himself, wants his M back. By the end of the evening H was so drunk, our F had to take him home. He says, H kept muttering that it's great, OW hates it when he drinks and now that he started to drink heavily, she will go away and leave him. So childish.
NEVER this woman will go away on her own accord. If he wants to get rid of her, he has to kick her out. And he's still trying to avoid doing it.
He called me the next day. Sure enough, she hated it when he came drunk and they had a row. I don't remember the whole convo, but I remember telling him that he needs to tell her the truth, whatever the truth may be.

Today he came over to take some stuff for my mom and take it over to her for me, since I'm still sick. It was his idea, I didn't ask him. He looked terribly thin, unkempt, with dark circles under his eyes. Painful sight, really. Twice he started saying something and then stopped after "I'm so sorry".

I have been there before, and more than once, and I try hard not to let my expectations go up too much, but I think something is really happening now. It seems like his unhappiness has finally reached its peak. He's reconnecting with old friends, he's initiating R talk, he definitely looks like he's about to hit the bottom.

When I asked him: do you want me to help you? he said, yes. But then I asked :How? And he wouldn't give an answer.

I wonder, is there anything I can do to help him?

I'm worried about him. His health is on stake. What he's doing to himself is terrifying to watch.

ok, dear friends, I need to return to bed now, I'm still dizzy.

Thanks for listening.

((((Hugs)))) for all.

(((((Stella)))))

Just hugs, hugs is all I got for you. Well, and some virtual homemade chicken soup. Feel better my friend. At least your temp is helping you maintain your detachment.

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

((((((Stella))))))

I hope you get better real soon.

Great news about H but remember to keep your expectations low. He obviously wants to be with you but is unable to break things off with OW. He's been waffling for such a long time. Remain friendly but detached until things have ended with OW once and for all.

Take care of yourself dear Stella!!!

(((SMW))), (((Addie))),

thank you, friends.

I've had a MAJOR R talk with H, he cried, I cried (a little bit),
we spoke about old times. H said, I only now start to realize how very happy we were.

I have no idea whether I've done right thing, but I was very honest and open with H. I've told him that I love him and want him back and I don't think the life he's having now makes him happy or can EVER make him happy, that I will survive no matter what, but I prefer to have him in my life. That I have no intention to rebuilt the life we've had, but I'm sure we can start a new M. That I can see all I've done wrong and I'm not happy about it but there is nothing I can do to change the past, instead I've changed myself and if he wants that new me, I'm still here. That all he has to do to end this agony is to tell her that he loves me and leave, or tell me that he loves her and leave, or tell both of us that he wants to be alone, and leave.
He said, I've helped him very much by saying it, that it won't be long now, that he cannot and will not go on living like that. And he said, he loved me and always will.

In short, it was a big "NO-NO" of a convo.
Strangely enough, I don't feel bad about it.

AS a matter of fact, I just broke another DB rule and called H on his cell. I've told him that I called because I wanted to hear his voice. Which is true. And he said "I thank you for that". He also said that I've done something today and now it's going to be all right and he feels that it's over now. That it was a cruel way to get our love back, but it did worth it.
He was crying. He said ILY. I said ILY too.

I have no idea what's going to happen now.

But I have no regrets, I went with the flow, and that's where it has taken me.

Sorry if I don't make sense, I'm very emotional right now.

Wish me luck, friends.

Wishing you good luck Stella.....

WOW ! Great conversation !!! And yes, wishing you luck !!

I am so happy that you are getting this chance !

Hope all goes well !

Much love and many hugs, {{{{{Stella}}}}}

My fingers are crossed for you both~

Living in God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

Got my fingers crossed for you!

I am praying that things go well for the two of you.

Stella, I think you cannot go wrong if you tell the truth. You had to do what you felt at the moment and that is ok. So now its out there, you said it all, he heard it, now let it lie and step back.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

Hey all.

I only have a few minutes to post, so:

H broke up with OW.
She left the apt they were renting together.
He came here.
The H who left it here the other day and the man that came back are two different men. He said so himself.
When he was leaving he loved me, he was looking forward to been with me, set things right once and for all.
Today he's gloomy, aloof, very unsure of what he's done. He asked me for some space. No hugging, kissing, he avoids eye contact - again. It doesn't look good.
He told me that he wanted to be happy with OW but couldn't because of me, that I was always there like a thorn in his heart.
I asked him - on the spur of the moment - will you love me?
He said, I don't know. I will try.

But he definitely doesn't seem to love me now. He is grieving the loss of OW so bad, it breaks my heart to see him in such condition.

The other thing that bothers me a lot is that he has to visit the apt they were renting together at least several times. He already said he's going to work there for a couple of weeks, until the lease is over. He will be surrounded by memories of their life together and at the moment he can only think of what he's lost, so that life will appear precious. I don't like it at all, but I didn't say a word. I figured, the OW will show up there for sure and she will know immediately that all is not lost and she will try to get him back. H still doesn't see her for what she is - shameless schemer - and now he's done all to ease his conscience, he might fall for it again.

I feel like walking on eggs again. Not knowing what to say and feeling very insecure. I know in my heart that if I try and demand anything from him, he will bolt again. Not good.

And there is nothing I can do, I guess.

I can only hope and pray.

And be.

That'd be all for now, I'll be back with more update.

{{{{{Stella}}}}}

Sweetie, you know that there is a mourning period that has to take place.

Do not consider prayer a last resort, consider it a line of first defense! What do you do now??? Here is my suggestion--

"Be still and know that I am God" Psalm 46:10

This battle is not yours, Stella, it is between your H, the devil and Our Heavenly Father. Know this, though, Satan has already been defeated at the Cross and this Victory is already the Lord's. Trust in Him, trust in Him.

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

Stella,
I am so sorry this is happening. It's not the reunion you were so hoping for. The withdrawal from OW and grieving period will require a lot of patience from you. Please prepare yourself.

(((stellitsa-mou))))

Well, great news that H ditched the OW. That is REALLY good.

You know how it works and you're doing it. Just keep being wonderful you, be patient, trust in his feelings for you (they're in there, just obscured by grief right now). I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you (and him not falling for OW again).

L. xx

Hey!!! would you rather he didnt ditch her? Come on, embrace yourself, now is the time to feel confident and fun. Give him space and dont let him drag you down. Love him Stella, love him unconditionally. I know it is hard, but it will make a difference.
xxx
K

((((SMW, Addie, Lisa, Kalni)))), hi and thanks.

SMW, what a powerful post!

I did what you said - I prayed my heart out.

H was gone all day, he went to the apt they were renting with OW and stayed there. He spent 2 hours on the phone with his mom - and guess what! my MIL doesn't want him to save his M! she never wanted me in the family, but I thought 24 years would make a difference... Apparently not. Then OW called and spoke with him for 30 min. Then he called me. And he said he's through with OW, it's over and done with

. He also said that it felt like he was walking with a wooden stake driven through his heart for two years, and now it's gone!! And that he's nearly sure :o. He didn't say sure of what and I didn't ask. Didn't like the word "nearly" though. In the evening he came home and brought two dogs - our old doggy, the one I missed so much, and a brand new pup! He's 5 months old, it's OW's dog's puppy and I hate the fact that he's going to be a constant reminder of OW, but he's very cute and he kissed me about one million times and of course my heart was melted.

H is very quiet and shy and it's awkward to be around him, but he's much better than the day before. He seems to be ok with us sleeping together, and I'm hanging off the edge of the bed! I think I need time and space as well. OW TMed 5 times or so and he didn't seem happy about it but he answered nevertheless. I didn't say a word. She still has to pick up most of her stuff and I don't want to start asking questions right away. H went to "their" apt again, to walk with another dog (OW's dog, she didn't take her yet) and then he wanted to go see MIL.
I'm very uncomfortable with that but I didn't make a comment and didn't show that I'm displeased.. After all I cannot control him, can I?

All and all, things are not bad. I worry a lot and I don't trust H, I'm still very alert to what he's doing and where he's going, but I try not to let it show. I go about minding my business the way I normally do. No, it is not the reunion I dreamt of, but somehow it feels more REAL. We shall see.

And - yes!!! I'm happy he ditched the SPIDER

!!!

Originally Posted By: stella_k

He also said that it felt like he was walking with a wooden stake driven through his heart for two years, and now it's gone!!

This is very telling.
And eventhough it wasn't the reunion you dreamed about, OW is gone and H is living with YOU. This is the chance every LBS hopes for. You will need a lot of patience with H and dealing with your own feelings that may surface. Keep praying for guidance.

(((Stella)))

Hang in there hun. Continue being the amazing woman you are and try to avoid your H's moodiness... it's still his journey.. but thankfully it sounds like he's nearly through it!!! I wish you much success!!!

I also want to give you a big hug (((((((((((((((((((((((Stella)))))))))))))))))))))))) to try in my small way to give you extra strength and support for what's going on with your Mom's health. I wish there were more I could do.

Hugs,
W2G

Stella--

I got a bit of a chuckle at you doing the MLC mattress hug. I am glad he is back with you and that OW is hanging in the breeze. You deserve much happiness. Roll up your sleeves, the real work is getting ready to begin. I hope i can join you in this endeavor in the not too distant future.

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

((((Addie, W2G (feels so good to have you posting again!), SMW)))), thank you, guys, for your great support!

Quick update here:

H initiated R talk, which lasted until 4 AM. Same old crap, MLC talk, now he was happy with OW (and what about 2 years of h!ll?!)and came back out of guilt only (and how about he loves only Stella?!) and he doesn't know why he didn't let me go and he's afraid he'd try to take revenge on me for making him drop OW and make me miserable (top of craziness).

I was tempted to end it then and just kick him out, but I pulled myself together, barely enough to listen and validate his raving. I even told him: go ahead with your revenge, I'm strong enough to face it.
That's when he finally got ashamed of himself and said: I'm sorry, I must be crazy for talking to you that way.

And he sure is - CRAZY!!!

Now he's sitting there in "their" apt every single day, with her dog and her stuff, which she's in no hurry to pick up, brooding over his "happiness" with her and driving himself even more insane. Yesterday, he said, they spent an hour on the phone! She called, of course, but he said, I probably would have called her anyway.

Oh, I just don't know.

I can see that he's struggling like mad, coming back to me every evening and calling me twice a day, and telling me the truth (and it HURTS!) but I'm afraid he will go nuts for real and he will take me with him.

For now I keep still and ready for anything to happen.

I cannot argue with madman and I need my sanity for my D18.

to be continued.

oh Stella....I cant tell you how many times my H came back to me trying to work on things and continued to profess his love for the OW...and tell me how he just couldnt get over her and how he did care so much for me...etc.

I feel for you. It sucks to hear them talk about the OW.

ok, I'm totally lost now.

it's happening again.

He's staying in their apt daily and talks to OW for hours.
He started betraying me the very moment he chose to come home.
He comes very late every day, doesn't spend any time with me, sleeps in my bed without touching me, keeps in touch with OW and thinks it's ok since he's telling me the truth about it.

He doesn't hide the fact he's not sure that he wants me after all. He acts as if I should be happy to have him here for couple of hours every day, THAT'S IT.

Should I ignore the fact he's in touch with her daily?

Should I let him be?

Is it how they come out of MLC?
Or is it how they're having fun and eat their cake?

I'm calling him, his cell is busy, he's talking to OW, and I'm back to square one, having a major meltdown.

I just cannot take it anymore...

Stella,

Oh Honey I am so sorry you are hurting right now.

When they truly come home for good, you will know it, your Husband is not quite ready.

This is why you have to have boundaries for yourself because the MLC'er will take advantage of the LBS, especially if there is a OW involved.

Patience, patience, patience........

The last part of the journey seems like the longest part I know, but you will get through this.

Keep yourself busy, and try not to focus on the things he is doing right now.

Piecing is hard, and takes alot of work and forgiveness. You need to be ready for when he does come home, because this is when you will truly be tested.

Thank you, (((BND)))!

I know he's not quite ready...

Not ready at all, more like it.

Should I kick him out and tell him to come back when he's really truly done with her?!

Should I let him be?

Only you can make that choice.
Only you know what you can handle.

Nobody else has to walk in your shoes and can only give you their opinion.

Living with a MLC'er is hell.
Living with a MLC'er with a OW is emotional torture.

What are your boundaries?

(((BND))),
thank you for your reply.
I didn't see it, because H came home and I had to leave BB.

We had a R talk again, I initiated.

I told him that I want him to leave. I was kind and friendly but very firm. I honestly WANTED him to go and leave me alone. I didn't sleep properly since he "returned". I had a meltdown over his marathon talk with OW yesterday. I was walking on eggs once again, something I was hoping never to do again. I've had it and told him so, without anger. I've told him I'm not waiting for him to make up his mind. If he decides to come back and I'm still available and willing to try, we can try. Until then I want him to disappear from my life for real. We don't need to communicate so often, our D18 is adult and he doesn't have to report to me about their interactions.
H said that he knows he's crazy. He KNOWS that the the madness will be over. May be in a year.
I said, ok, we'll talk about it in a year then.
He had tears in his eyes.
I had none. I smiled at him and patted his hand.
I've told him that I still love him, but I have to take care of myself now. For my D18 and for my mom. They need me.
We were talking for three hours at least and it was getting better and better, much lighter than in the beginning.
Then he said: I want to stay and try. Please.
And I said, well, if that's what you really want... Fine. You can stay.

I don't know what will come out of it, but our interaction was good and he was sincere. He said he's addicted to OW as he's addicted to smoking and drinking. He even suggested that we should go back to Asia, away from her, and stay there for another couple of years!! He was the one who hated it there and wanted to come home.
I said, I will think about it.
Actually, I like the idea.
If I can find a good nurse for my mom, I can go.

So far so good.

One thing bothers me, though.
He dropped all his former accusations.
His complaints about our M turned out to be MLC crap.
All but one. He says that our sex life was never great. He says he was SS for many years, and what he's got was neither enough nor satisfactory.
He wants to be M to me. He loves me. We are meant to be together.
He doesn't feel any pressure from me and feels good around me.
BUT - he wants to have sex with her and not with me.
That's his main fear - that our sex life will never improve.
He frightened me.

I think I will start a thread in SSM as well.

Thank you (((all))) for listening.

2 words: Passionate Marriage. He doesnt want to ML to you, he wants to "do you and be done by you", he wants to have amazing sex and he doesnt realize he probably isnt getting it from her either. He just feels the novelty and the excitement. BUT, what he is really after is CONNECTION. Read the book. It might help. Read it together if possible. Heck!! go meet the guy who wrote it. He does consultations in 3 sessions one each day for couples that visit from abroad. You love him, you still have so much love inside. Do what it takes. Your H needs help. He wont be able to stabilize alone, if he isnt guided somehow. He tried before. You cant get away from a spider. He is in deep grief. I feel sorry for him and upset for you...

*And this is where the amateuer C, packs her bags and goes home to her unresolved mental issues...*

Feel free to ignore, as always...
K

Stella,

The Man is MLC'crazy!!

So many of the exact same things have come out of my Husband's mouth.

I will write a longer post soon, I just got back from work and need to unwind a bit.

As far as the sex thing...also MLC, although there m,ay be some validity into what he is saying.

Only you can answer that, as you know what went on in the bedroom.

My Husband said many of the same things during his MLC, as did many other MLC'ers here. Sex is a big deal to them.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

(((Kalni mou)))!

When did I ever ignore your opinion, my amateur C :)?!

I will read the book... I should have done it a while ago, LOL.
I don't think we can have a consultation, though. We're so broke it's scary, given my mom's situation and D in college...

(((BND)))

Well, I'm afraid, H does have a reason to complain...
Still, I wonder if MLC is talking here as well. It wasn't all that bad after all.

H has called me a few minutes ago after what was presumably "the closing talk with Spider". Surprisingly, he didn't sound too much down. When I asked him how he was, he said: I'm alive. I didn't like the thought of him sitting alone in their apt but he said that he's leaving it right away.
I asked him if he'd like me to take our dog, meet him downstairs and go for a walk with him and he said, that'd be nice!

I'm afraid to get hopeful again, but once again - so far so good.

Can't wait for him to get here and tell me how it went with Spider...

I have been watching and cheering from the sidelines, I post to Kalni so I have been reading about you, too!

I am cautiously optimistic for you. Keep the faith and see what happens! Enjoy the walk with H and the dog!

Hey, BobbiJo, thanks for posting to me and thank you for your optimism, I really need that.

The dog walking went well. That's about the only thing that did go well. H was very open about his convo with OW and it seemed not to affect him that much. By the time we got home, though, he started changing, got a bit of an alien look and talked MLCish.
Next day - he comes home late again, very alien look, tells me he's going to see IC and wants to start ADs (he stopped taking them in October). He said again, I guess I'm crazy. And he sure looks crazy! Restless, jerky movements, beady eyes. Finally he reaches for a bottle of wine. It relaxes him a bit. Then he starts a R talk.
As I sit there just listening, he tells me stories about OW. How they could be happy together if it wasn't for the "stake in his heart". Sick of it

!
He broke NC and came here two weeks ago precisely because he wasn't happy!

He wrote a beautiful poem about betrayal, Love gone and wedding ring lost and showed it to me. I asked him: is your love gone, then?
After a long, long pause, he said: I love you very much. And then he tried to explain his exact feelings. That his heart starts pounding every time he sees me, and then he gets closer and I'm disappearing, like a mirage, and what's left is a stranger he has no feelings for.

Validate THAT!

And then he goes on and on.

That he's afraid to end up in the dark place where he was before MLC started (many of them say that).
That I've done such and such things to hurt his feelings during our M.
That he made a mistake and let OW to control his life and now he's missing the freedom he had with me.
That he's attracted to her sexually and there is nothing he can do about this attraction.
That it's not over yet.

I've told him, I KNOW THAT.

So - another sleepless night.
All the while I was fighting back two words: GO AWAY.
I looked at him and I thought: what am I doing, letting this man sit here in front of me, telling me endless stories about OW an how great she is and how he cannot break free from her, telling me how he doesn't have any desire for me, doesn't enjoy my company, misses only the freedom to do as he pleases (something he cannot have with OW), fears the "empty" feeling he had when we were living together.
I know, I shouldn't give up now, after all he has come a long way and has really taken some serious steps towards reconciliation.

My head is spinning, I didn't have a good night sleep for a few days in a row, but I think I'm pretty much detached.

Of course, I was expecting him to slide back (thanks, BND!) but it's still very hard to take. I think he's not ready, he's still very much in the fog and may stay in the fog for a long, long time. I'm not sure I can take it, watch him struggling with his madness day after day. When I asked, why didn't he leave two days ago when I asked him to, he said: my emotions keep changing.
He admits that he's weak and he's not even ashamed of it anymore.
He's exsausted, miserable, insane.
At the moment I feel like I'm locked in a cage with a large wounded animal, in great pain and therefore very dangerous.
I cannot really DO anything, just watch his movements and listen to his moaning and growling.

This is not life.

I keep asking myself: is this what I want?
Don't I deserve better?
How can I go on when I'm so tempted to end it and have some rest and start living for ME only?

Sorry about all that complaining, just needed to vent.

(((all)))

Stella,
like all people here, I ve been reading and reading and reading about Rs affairs, MLC, separation, divorce etc etc...

One book I just got yesterday, said that men even when they return to their wives, ARE ALWAYS vulnerable to the OW. Even after they reconcile and live in a marital bliss, if the OW is available they cant get her out of their system. Its His Needs, Her needs, which Michelle even suggests. He says, contact must stop and he even suggests move to another state/city if possible... (!!!).

It seems what your H is going through is normal. I wish I could say it will not last long but I think it will...

Find courage to the fact that he made the decision. Try to be the stabile one and try to connect with him again. Dont use words to connect, use your attitude. And dont forget to take care of Stella.

Feel free to ignore as always...
K

Wow, Stella that is some pretty heavy stuff. I have no advice, since I am still waiting for my h to return, but I am thinking of you and am excited to hear that another one returns.

Don't expect it to be easy, but I do believe it will get much better if you give your h the space to grieve and grow.

Not fair at all though. You worked so hard and this is what returns. Stay strong!

(((Kalni))),

I appreciate the fact that he made a decision.
Unfortunately I don't believe that his decisions last.
And H himself doesn't believe it either.
Once, many years ago, he told me that he never gives his word as he knows himself to be incapable of keeping it.

And, yes, I think it will go on for a long time. Sigh...

Quote:

Not fair at all though. You worked so hard and this is what returns.

I KNOW, Glamgirl :)! What a mess!

Well, H went to see IC today. I called him on his cell as he was leaving IC. He said he's on his way to pick up ADs from a drugstore.
I don't know what to expect from him today, I just hope it's not going to be him venting until 4 AM again.

For some reason I'm sure that he'll bolt again, and very soon.
He WANTS so badly to choose me, to come back, to love me again, therefore his constant false starts. He keeps coming back only to find out that his feelings for me didn't return. Instead he just gets irritated by everything I do and doesn't want to be around me. So sad.

Ever since he came back, I'm having a knot in my stomack again and every evening it's getting heavier by the time I expect H to show up. It is definitely not the "happy" return and I'm still toying with the idea to ask him to leave, again, and this time to mean it...

I'm also thinking about goinf=g away again, returning to my teaching job in Asia, alone, if he won't come with me. And he already told me yesterday that he doesn't want to go (it was his idea initially). If I get my job back I'm going to be able to pay for my mom's full time nurse.

I will wait until the ADs kick in, of course. It will take a few days or so. And I will see if he will really move his stuff over here during the weekend, as he promised.

Stella,
he is trying. If you were in his shoes, what would you want him to do for you?
K

WOW, Kalni, great que.

ok, let me think... Take care of the household, listen and validate, create a quiet and pleasant atmosphere in the house?

Oh, and not to speak of my feelings. He's the only one with feelings right now.

Need to think more.

Journaling:

H started his ADs. He had quite a bad reaction the first time he took it, he was shaking violently, had a panic attack and couldn't sleep. It turned out he made a mistake by taking it at bedtime instead of morning.

Next morning he took it again and by the evening he was his "alien" self. All the signs of emotional intimacy were gone. Once again he was aloof, trying to avoid me as much as possible, not even looking at me. I know that he spent some time on the phone with Spider, he told me so.

I don't know if I deserve 2x4, I think not, but I started a R talk. I asked him what his plans are conserning Spider and keeping in touch with her. He said, he cannot imagine not talking to her at all yet and he will not accept NC with her if such is my demand. I said, I just think it's wrong and doesn't help our situation at all, it only prolongs everybody's agony. He agreed with that, but he said he cannot see the way to avoid it.

He also tried to explain his feelings for me and Spider again. He said, he'd be sure he loves her if he was blind and deaf

. That he still thinks I'm beautiful and he likes talking to me and that we are deeply connected, but he cannot imagine been intimate with me.
In short, what he feels towards me is friendship and sympathy, not love.
He doesn't know if love will ever return.

I had to tell him that I cannot accept friendship instead of love. Still, I would do anything to help him, if he'd allow me.
He said, may be he should stay with his mom for a while, just to be able to pull himself together and work. It shows that he really is desperate for some peace of mind and feels that he cannot have it neither with me, nor with Spider. Normally he'd never stay with his mom longer than few hours.

I'm a little bit confused now, because according to DB rules I should give him space, not initiate R talk, keep myself busy and happy and let him be. But I'm absolutely sure that in our sitch it wouldn't work. After a couple of days it starts boiling over and it's painful to watch H sinking into his dull silent despair.
I think he needs me to aknowledge what's happening to him and not to pretend that everything is fine and I'm content while he's suffering next to me.
What's happening to him is not just grieving over OW and he's nowhere close to start healing process. Guilt was eating him alive and he came back in order to set things right, hoping it will somehow work out. Now that he's here he doesn't know how to BE, there is nothing he can do about it. He only lightens up a little bit while watching his pup.

I think that in my heart I'm ready to let go completely, I just don't know how to proceed about it. I don't want to tell him to leave. I think he appreciates our R talks but it's taking us nowhere. Now that I'm typing it, I'm not even sad. I'm so tired of all the heartbreak, I've no feelings left. Or may be it's just today, I don't know.

I also started to question his MLC!
I was his love from the first sight (and he still likes the sight of me), he waited for 6 years to get together (he waited out 2 long term boyfriends of mine), he was madly in love for many years, it must be extremely painful to him to accept the fact that he simply stopped loving me and he's struggling with that awful loss the best he can.
Hence his waffling and coming back.
But in his heart he knows the feeling is dead.

Is there anything any of us can do?

Right now I feel like moving as far away as possible, like Addie did, away from him and his drama. If the miracle will happen and the feeling will come back, he will find me. If not, I will start my new life, knowing I've done all I could and more...

If any MLC vets recognize the symptoms I've described (both H's and mine), I'd greatly appreciate an input. Is there anything I'm missing here?
I keep swimming in mud and cannot see the bottom...

Stella this has to be so very tough. I don't know what to say. I do believe love feelings can come back. I believe that with all my heart. I have experienced it myself. That will take time though.

I think your h should be NC with spider, but it doesn't sound like that is a possibility at the moment. Not sure what is with the break-up between them. What is to stop him from getting back together with her?

I think this is going to take time and you need to be loving and supportive at the moment. He won't be pining for her forever.

What does your heart tell you to do?

thank you for your post, Glamgirl!

My heart tells me to let him go.

At the moment I'm busy preparing for yet another R talk. I'm done with pretending games and I'm going to tell him that I love him very much but I don't see any effort from him and I can see that he's very unhappy and does his best not to spend time with me. I have nothing to lose. I haven't slept for a week, I've got the hollow feeling in my stomach back, I cannot concentrate on anything and I'm sick of him coming home to me as late as possible and running out as early as possible as if it is the last place on earth he wants to be. And not talking to me or looking at me while he's here. Not my idea of reconnection.

I love him, so I better let him go.

And once he's gone I'm going to GAL for real.

(((all)))

Stella,
After reading your last couple of postings, I do not believe your h is any where near reconnection. He's still in the midst of his little crisis. Coming home was just a temporary fix to his problems. Some of them do come home again and then find that it's not working for them at all and have to leave again.

Your h sounds a lot like my xh was when he left, came home and left again. Let me put this out there to you and you think about it okay? When my xh came home the second time for 7 mths, it was like nothing was ever right, he would come and go, barely talk, was on the internet, sleeping, watching tv and yes, disappearing for hours and wouldn't tell me where he had been. We lived like ships passing in the night. One day, he threatened to leave again....I waited until the next evening and say "xh, I've been giving it a lot of thought and I think you should leave." He sat there and cried like a baby and said "w, I just don't know what to do...I'm so confused about everything." I left him alone and we continued w/the passing in the night and one night, just prior to him going for the final time he mentioned that I acted like nothing was wrong...I pointed out that I wasn't the one that was unhappy and needed to move out. He left within 5 days and has not been back here to live since. Now, I will warn you of this, if you do open the door for him to escape one more time, his anger may be worse than the first time around...at least my xh's was.

Stella, if you are absolutely certain that he needs to go, then so be it. Do not have another relationship talk w/him. Just simple put it that it's not working and until he can figure himself out, it might be best if he were living on his own. He already knows that you love him...just open the door and kindly tell him it's not working for him or for the family and he needs to figure things out w/o a lot of distractions. I know you can do this, Stella. All I ask is that you be prepared for the fall out.

Dear Snodderly,

thank you so much for your post.

Yes, my H sounds a lot like yours. Exactly like yours.

And I don't know if I'm ready for the fall out. I wish there was something else I could do, but right now I see that it's getting worse every day. I only mentioned R talk because H seems to respond to them. When I act as if nothing is wrong, he becomes more of an alien, probably he's provoking me to get me to react.
I also think he starts missing me when he's with OW and vice versa. Is it too simple an explanation?

He just called to tell me that he's not coming home , he's planning to work on his project at night. He's having an important presentation tomorrow, so I believe he's telling the truth. He promised to call me in the morning.

I guess, it gives me additional time to think it over.

I'm scared of the fall out, to tell you the truth...

((((Stella))),
I don't know how to help. People have been through what you are going through, and survived so at least we know that!!! $\:\)$

I am sorry, your H seems to be totally confused. Try to protect yourself somehow.
xxxx
K

Dear Stella,
I really feel for what you are going through. It is such a difficult sitch.

Originally Posted By: stella_k

Right now I feel like moving as far away as possible, like Addie did, away from him and his drama. If the miracle will happen and the feeling will come back, he will find me. If not, I will start my new life, knowing I've done all I could and more...

Only you know what is best in your sitch. In many, many ways I am so glad I left. I came back to a place where I had support from family and friends and a rewarding career. However the drama has not ended. H continues to pull me back in. I can't help but wonder if we might not be actively working on our M by now if I had stayed. At the same time I know it would have been very difficult for me to sit back and watch him go through the addiction/withdrawal phase of the end of A. I think I would also want to leave and let him deal with the fall out on his own.

I am praying for you Stella. You will come to the right decision. Hang in there.

(((Kalni, Addie))),

I wil survive, girls, no worries.

Addie, thank you for your prayer.

H has called to tell that he's not coming home again today, now he's planning to show up tomorrow morning. Urgent work again

.
I guess he's going to tell me that it's not working and go back to OW (assuming). If I'm wrong and he won't say so, then I will.

A very short-lived reunion...

Stella

It sounds so much like my H's touch and goes. This is the time where you really have to muster all the strength and patience you can find. I remember Snodderly telling me the same thing when I went through it.

If he leaves again try to let it go. I found in my sitch if I made a big deal of it, it would make it worse. Only you know what you need to do.

Hang in there.

Y

((((Stellitsa-mou))))

I'm just stopping by to say that I'm reading and thinking of you. You are getting great advice so I'm not sure I've got a lot to add other than the usual thing abut being patient. You're going to be a success- I can sense it!

I hope you're OK. How's the art coming along?

L. xx

(((YR))),

thanks for stopping by!

I will let him go, I don't have a choice.

He's so sick, I'm not even angry with him anymore, I'm sure I can do it calmly.

(((Lisa mou))),

a success, me?! $\:D$

Art's coming along ok - some of my drawings are going to Paris for a group show and I envy them,

Dear all.

It's over.

My stand of 27 months has come to an end.

H has come over to pick up our doggy, just I thought he would. He was very calm, very normal. His madness of the last days has gone. He told me that his love for me is gone for real, he needs and wants to be with OW. He will file ASAP.

We had a nice (under the circumstances)talk, very warm and friendly and sad.

I cried a little bit when we said good bye and hugged. I don't have hard feelings and I forgive him. There is nothing he can do about not loving me anymore. He tried to set things right, it just didn't work. After all, he knows better whom he needs in his life.

I am very sad and feel very lonely but I'm ready to start healing.

I also feel like saying good bye - again.
I will not post for a while, there is nothing I can say to others, not right now, may be later I will be able to return to offer my help.
At the moment I feel like a failure.

I hope it will pass.

Good luck to all of you, I love you, thanks for always being here for me.

(((Stella))),
we've all been there and back a few times. At least I have been. I know the feeling. I am sorry. One thing I know is that each time we come out of it stronger. Maybe this is it, indeed.
Dont look back. Dont let sadness break you. Accept it for what it is, a good bye and take care of yourself. You've been through so much, you know the rollercoaster of emotions. Respect yourself.
You know how to reach me thru FB. Maybe we can chat if you feel like talking? Later? Tomorrow? Drop me a line, ok?
Love
M

BTW, quit with the "failure" thing... You know better. Go easy on Stella, things will look much better sooner than you think.

Stella

Hang in there. Take care of you right now. It doesn't necessarily mean it is the end. Those MLCer's go back and forth so much. I had heard it all before.

You are in my prayers!

Y

My dear friend,

I'm so sorry this is happening to you but this may be just what you need to move on with your life. However based on your H's actions of late and as YR suggested, I have a strong suspicion this is not the end. Your H is still very confused.
Right now you need to do your best to GAL. You know we are here for you if you need support even if you don't have any advice to offer for the time being.
Please take care of yourself.

Thank you, (((friends))).

((Stella)),
I know you probably feel there isnt a point for you posting anymore, but I am sure you wil need to vent and express what you are going through right now. You know there are a lot of people that care that are willing to listen here...
M

oh, I don't know, Kalni, may be you're right...

I didn't expect it to be that painful, after all these months.

You see, I've never lost hope, not entirely, I kept believing that H still loves me, that he will eventually realise that Spider is not what he needs in his life. What happened yesterday was the opposite - he finally managed to convince me that his love is gone for good and has been gone for 10 years at least and Spider is what he wants and whom he chose to be with. He said he loved his love for me and not me. After watching him suffering so by my side and not knowing what to do with himself, I understand that he was telling the truth, it's not just MLC speaking.

I don't want to spend the rest of my life in denial. I believed him. Now he has taken into consideration what I've told him about not letting me go and keeping me chained to him and decided (finally!) to change the way he communicates with me. Today I found extremely short and dry message left for me, totally business like, about some money issues. He has NEVER written to me like that. That's what I wanted and asked for, I know, still hurts like h!ll.

I find so many faults now with my DBing and I'm trying not to let myself think that I blew it because I never learned how to let go and kept applying pressure when I should have kept still. My inner voice never did its job properly or may be I just kept ignoring it. Seems like everything I have done backfired.

I cannot blame myself for H leaving this time but I'm certain that I pressured him to come home when he wasn't ready (if he was ever going to be ready) and possibly lost my only chance.

A friend of mine compared our love to well, filled with marvelous water. A couple is sitting by the well, enjoying the taste of water. Suddenly the water is gone. The two keep sitting there, waiting for water to return, suffering from extreme thirst, until one of them finally gets up and goes away in search of a new well. The other one remains there, mourning the loss of water and his companion. Then, after a while, he (she) gets up too and leaves.

Today I'm still sitting there, by the empty well, grieving.

Time to go, I know.

Thanks for listening.

You gave a good fight, you should have no regrets, you did the best you could and saddly it wasnt enough.

I know you have the need to go back and revisit what has happened, but I doubt it you will find reasons and answers to your questions. But, you will know when to stop. I honestly feel that no matter what anyone tells you, your timeline is to be respected.

One thought that may help is that you have been living alone and doing good for so long. You dont need him. Lately he caused you more stress when he was around than joy. You, youself were wondering how things could continue like that.

Try and stay to today and find little things that give you pleasure. If you read on this board you will see people in situations that sound like nightmares. Violence, abuse, drugs, alcohol, money issues, babies, young kids involved and most of them, if not all, make it through. You will be fine too and you will be better than fine.
Take your time, day by day, it gets easier I hear...
K

Stella,

I'm finally catching up with your thread, wow! What a roller coaster you have been on. I want you to know that I'm thinking about you!!!!

(((((HUGS)))))

Stella, dont you dare say that you are a failure. Your h has failed. He failed to tell you he was unhappy, he failed to keep his marriage vows, he failed to try with everything he had.

You stood for a very long time. There are no guarantees with db. Different things work for different people and other things dont work for some. There is no way to know.

The important thing about dbing is that we grow. And you have grown so much.

Hold your head high that you tried as hard as you could. Take care of you, be there for your daughter and remember what a wonderful person you are!

Stella, Im sorry your H has put you through this again. But you can still have hope. You are not a failure at all. And just because he says it is over...doesnt mean anything. Just keep your head up! You are a strong woman!

I am so sorry Stella. Your post about the well water made me cry. I was so rooting for you and your h. Keep praying Stella.

Not to give false hope, but I truly don't think your h was ready to come home. It isn't until R with spider is done that he could really come back to you.

Love can be re-kindled, but will take much work. It's not a place that you can even go right now.

Now I thought that your h was done with spider. How did they get back together? Doesn't mean it will last either!

Hugs!

Dear (((all))), hi and thanks for your posts!

Even though I don't want to spend much time on the BB until I heal a little bit, it feels GREAT to come back and find so much support from friends. Thank you!

I've spent a few hours with H on Friday - he was helping me with my mom's house, I asked him to a while ago. It was awkward at the beginning but then I started telling him that I'm fine with being friends as I think we should try and do it for our D18 and that he can call me if he wants to. H was visibly relieved and we were talking in a very friendly way all the way to my mother's place (H drove Spider's car. It is first time I agreed to get into it). Even though I've decided not to give his MLC another thought, I couldn't help noticing - he had beady eyes again and there were other signs that he's still deep in the fog.

Whatever.

I haven't heard from him since Friday and I don't want to.

Glam, he got back with Spider the day he came to pick up our dog and we've had our closing talk. He only had to give her a whistle, I guess, she was waiting for it patiently. What a woman!

I'm struggling with depression each and every day but I can see the light at the end of tunnel. At least I can IMAGINE that I will go on living without H and I will be all right. I take it one day at a time, thinking about past and/or future is strictly forbidden. I also forbid myself to imagine H with OW, something that always makes me angry or tearful.

I've also noticed that until recently I kept reminding myself of our good days together, as if I was afraid to forget what a great H I used to have and, I guess, to keep my love for him alive.

Now I'm doing the opposite - I focus on the changes in him, on his new ways which make him a stranger. It is easier to let go of the stranger that only looks like my H.

And I have let go completely. Finally! I should have done it ages ago!

Oh well, everyone has his own timing.

BTW, Beginners, I don't really consider myself a failure, but I think that I could have grasped the consept of letting go a little bit faster $\:\)$ . As it is, it only took me two years $\:D$ .

It's too early for me to think that I've succeeded this time, I still remember how well I managed to detach in August-September and how I was back in limbo by the end of October. But at least now I know what NOT to do.

((((all))))

You'll be fine. Sorry to repeat this, I hate is as much as everyone on these boards -maybe even more- but it takes time...
xxxxx
K

Hey Stella, I am at 21 months and I still havent fully detached. We all get there in our own time.

Stella,

Completely letting go does take a long time. You may have not detached completely but little by little you will get there. You will succeed!!!

Stella checking to see how you are doing. Thanks for your post on my thread. I know this can't be easy for you, but we are here for you. Hugs!

((((Kalni, Beginners, Addie, Glam)))),

thank you for checking on me.

I'm ok, surviving.

I accept reality.

Didn't hear from H for a week now. I'm fine with it, for the first time in two years I'm not trying to imagine what he's thinking and whether he's in "Withdrawal" or "Depression" and how much longer it will take him to wake up.

I really need help with my mother's place right now and H knows it perfectly well, still he didn't offer his help and I'm not going to ask for it. From now on I'm on my own. The thought is still frightening and the feeling of loneliness is very intense.

But I'm going to get better, and soon. I will manage somehow.

(((all)))

Hugs Stella,
take care of you and your mom. Day by day...
xxx
K

Hey Stella,

There are so many things that I could use my XH help on also but you know what, I can do it myself! I've fixed toilets & leaky faucets & a few other things that I thought sure I would have to call someone but I didn't. We can make it with or without. Although, I really don't want to make it without my xh but for now I know I have to.

I'm thinking about you, stay strong!!!

((((HUGS))))

Checking in on you Stella. I hope you are doing ok and NOT focusing on what your h is doing.

dearest (((friends))),

i'm not spending much time on the boards these days, just wanted to catch my thread before it disappears and give you an update.

So, it's been a month since H left. I've heard from him twice or so and saw him two times - once I just ran into him by chance and we had a chat for about 5 min. Second time he called and asked if he could come over to pick up some stuff. He came and was very friendly anhd relaxed, chatted with me nicely and even told a few jokes.

I have been grieving/accepting/letting go and I think I've made some progress there. I'm not DBing anymore and - no, Glam! I'm not focusing on H and his doings at all:). I'm still thinking about him daily, mostly recalling our past, there is nothing I can do about it. But I also remind myself daily of the awful 10 days we've spent together in March and it helps a lot. I don't miss the man he has become, I don't love him and I don't want to be married to him. I'm really and truly done this time and I can feel the difference. I'm still sad, lonely and confused. I guess I'm depressed too (going to see a T about it this week). But I'm not WAITING for anything and it feels good.

Somehow the thought about dating started to occur to me lately. Right now I do not think/believe that I can meet a stranger and like him and, more importantly, that someone would like me. All I want at the moment is to talk to someone , may be flirt a little bit online, that's all. So I went and checked out a few dating sites. What a disappointment. Dating pool is swarming with frogs and I definitely wouldn't want to kiss any of them:(. Then again, may be I didn't find the right site.
I wonder if there is a LBS friendly, flirting/dating/supportive site out there for people too damaged to start dating and too lonely to be fine on their own. LOL.

After all, it does get better. There are days when I don't understand why should I bother and get up and get dressed. But there are also, very few, but still - days when I feel alive and wanting to Do something, just go and live.

Plenty of (((((((((((HUGS))))))))))) to all,
to be continued.

Stella so glad you are moving forward. This is a very confusing time of our lives.

Dating could be good. Stay strong and see where your life leads you. Good you are not obsessing with your h, just remembering the finer days. I too just try to focus on the good days and what I did enjoy about my h.

Hugs!