Previous thread Starting a new thread about me and my healing.
This past week I almost lost it. I have been struggling to keep on track and get things done. I realize it's because I'm still not healing yet, still not letting go.
So, from now on I'm going to post about me, my girls, my life moving forward.
My birthday is at the end of October so I've set goals that I want to attain by then. The most important one is
I will get back to being Frank.
I am so overwhelmed with anxiety and pain today. Why? Because of the stress I'm under and the hurt of knowing after 9 months that W really is emotionally gone. I've been this way all week and it has to stop. It has to.
I know that God has wonderful plans for my life, I just know it. I also know they won't happen until I let them. Until I let go.
A lot of the feelings I have are abandonment issues from childhood. I know that now, and I know that part of this whole mess is because of my own self fulfilling prophesies. I'm not lovable enough, nobody will stay with me unless I keep giving and giving.. or I control them.
This is now my life crisis. I've been avoiding that for a long time. I need support.
So, I forgive the past, and I'm focusing on the present. The future will take care of itself.
Yeah. A year from now my life will be a lot different. How long it takes for it to be 'better' will hopefully be less than that year
Frank,
You will see that as soon as you stop watching her every move and you begin to take the focus off of her, things will begin to change for you.
As soon as I began to do things for "me" and began to enjoy my life without wondering about my Husband's every move or thought, things began to happen.
I honestly don't know exactly when the changes began, but I do believe that when I truly "let go" I felt a huge relief.
My posts were about me, not what my Husband was doing or saying. I began to do projects around the house, and paint rooms in colors that made me happy. I began to grow as a person, and stopped being "stuck".
Yes, I still had moments of sadness when I wanted things to just be normal again, but the intensity of the sadness was different, I could actually breathe again and the crying stopped.
BREATHE!!!
Sending hugs
((((hugs))))
Frank,
You will see that as soon as you stop watching her every move and you begin to take the focus off of her, things will begin to change for you.
As soon as I began to do things for "me" and began to enjoy my life without wondering about my Husband's every move or thought, things began to happen.
I honestly don't know exactly when the changes began, but I do believe that when I truly "let go" I felt a huge relief.
My posts were about me, not what my Husband was doing or saying. I began to do projects around the house, and paint rooms in colors that made me happy. I began to grow as a person, and stopped being "stuck".
Yes, I still had moments of sadness when I wanted things to just be normal again, but the intensity of the sadness was different, I could actually breathe again and the crying stopped.
BREATHE!!!
Sending hugs
((((hugs))))
Thanks BND. Have a lot of anxiety today but it will pass. I really do think that if I can avoid interactions with her I'll do better.
It's the times I do see her when she smiles at me with what looks like her 'happy to see me' smile. It kills me because I believe it.
I'm also doing my best to look ahead, to visualize how I want life to be - for me - without her being a factor in it.
I miss hugs.
It's the times I do see her when she smiles at me with what looks like her 'happy to see me' smile. It kills me because I believe it.
Frank,
I do not understand this.....
What if she is happy to see you?
You are a nice guy, a good Father, you have been patient with her, so why can't she be happy to see you?
The trick is to see things as they are and to take things at face value.
No secret meanings.
Don't go searching for deeper things.
So, here is the million dollar question Frank...
Tell me, if this was Frank's world how would you see your "perfect" life?
What is your plan on achieving this?
BND...
I know how Frank feels. How can she seem so happy while he is suffering from this whole ordeal. I was there too. My W seemed to be enjoying her "freedom". It was killing me inside. I struggled to let go. Just like Frank. She would come to the house to see the kids. I would make myself scarce. I would either make it a point to not be there, or just stay up in the bedroom while she was in the house.
Eventually, I started to go out with friends. I was really enjoying myself. I could honestly say that I didn't care where she was or who she was with.
Frank, this process takes time. Time can be our best friend, or our worst enemy. You can either wallow in your sadness, or change who Frank is. I'm sorry I can't tell you how to do it. All I can do is offer my support, and provide testimony that it is possible. If you are a religious man, pray to God to help you let her go. Pray to God for her well being. And pray to God to let you move on. In time...
God Bless
I do not understand this.....
What if she is happy to see you?
You are a nice guy, a good Father, you have been patient with her, so why can't she be happy to see you?
The trick is to see things as they are and to take things at face value.
No secret meanings.
Don't go searching for deeper things.
You're right. I'm not there yet. I need to keep away from her until I get there.
So, here is the million dollar question Frank...
Tell me, if this was Frank's world how would you see your "perfect" life?
I had it once, or something like it. I'm seeing how I can reclaim it while also going through this ordeal.
Frank, this process takes time. Time can be our best friend, or our worst enemy. You can either wallow in your sadness, or change who Frank is. I'm sorry I can't tell you how to do it. All I can do is offer my support, and provide testimony that it is possible. If you are a religious man, pray to God to help you let her go. Pray to God for her well being. And pray to God to let you move on. In time...
God Bless
That's what I'm doing right now. I only now really started.
Frank, I rarely get over here but saw your thread. I completely get why it hurts you to see her acting like everything is A ok and she is happy to see you. The thing to remember is that she is not thinking like you, in fact you do not know what she is thinking at all.
All you need to do right now is take one step at a time. I know you are a guy but the anxiety worries me. Do you have an outlet for your feelings besides the board? What are you doing to take care of yourself? Would you consider a hot bath? Really, I mean it. Do you have time to exercise at all?
I went through what you are going through now emotionally for 2 years. I got better over all but at that point enough was enough and I started antidepressants under the care of a psychiatrist and and clinical psychologist. It helped and I have been off the ADs for a long time.
Men demonstrate clinical depression in different ways from women and I wonder if that is where you are. I'm not a doctor and would not want you to think I am. But being overwhelmed by anxiety and pain is not a good place to be and I hope that you can get to a better place soon. Wonder
Men demonstrate clinical depression in different ways from women and I wonder if that is where you are. I'm not a doctor and would not want you to think I am. But being overwhelmed by anxiety and pain is not a good place to be and I hope that you can get to a better place soon. Wonder
Actually that's where I WAS when she decided to bail because she was 'done'. PTSD, clinical depression, etc. etc.
I've been on AD's for a few months, and it helps significantly. Believe me, the anxiety comes and goes, but previously it just STAYED and stayed.
I'm a lot better off these days.
Frank,
I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself. You say you need to let her go, you need to get back to being you and so on. you are right, you do need to do these things but they take time. you cannopt wake up one day, say it and will it to happen instantly. Then I get the impression that you are adding more pressure to yourself because it isn't happening instantly.
It's a process that will take months and it will happen so gradually that you won't know it until one day you will wake up and realize that it has happened. Take some time and relax. Don't worry about changing yourself, just do your own thing.
I'm sorry I can't tell you how to do it. All I can do is offer my support, and provide testimony that it is possible.
Frank,
This really doesn't have to tie into any abandonment issues from your childhood. That's probably something that will stay with you for the rest of your life in some form or another. These events are unrelated and unlike your experience from childhood, it's more likely a positive result will take place if your willing to "let her go".
Poohbear is correct. It does get better and half the battle is just believing that it will. Don't wait around for it to happen "some day". Make it happen by believing it has already.
How do you "get there"? You just do, because the alternative (constant anxiety, depression, self pity, anger, and despair) is unacceptable. You won't last long physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually in that state of being. Don't let the dark force behind those emotions defeat you.
Don't be your own judge and executioner Frank. It's only a damn state of mind. It's not what the reality is. Reality is you can be enjoying a much improved quality of life if your just willing to pursue it.
Frank,
I honestly don't see how you do it with so much contact. Time heals all wounds but not seeing her will help quite a bit too. If there are steps you can take (legal) so that you don't have to see her so much it might be beneficial for your own mental health.
This is IMHO of course and formed out of my personal experiences and hindsight.
Don't be your own judge and executioner Frank. It's only a damn state of mind. It's not what the reality is. Reality is you can be enjoying a much improved quality of life if your just willing to pursue it.
That's brass tacks, Frank.
Hear it.
The Requirements of Waiting
Psalm 27:1-14
Waiting on the Lord is a basic principle in the Christian life. The problem is that doing so runs counter to our human nature. We want to take action and grasp what we desire, but the Spirit says to sit still before God and receive from Him. To counter what "self" tells us, God's Spirit will help us grow in four areas.
Faith. On his own, man can make little sense of the command to pause before the Lord. Human logic says, "Surely God expects us to reason things out"; however, only when we regard life from a faith perspective will the benefits of stillness become clear. During times of uncertainty or great stress, we find comfort as we are quiet in His presence. The more we develop a strong belief system, the better we will become at practicing this discipline.
Humility. To counter our natural inclinations, we must be convinced that we need God and that we cannot live without His guidance. Only then are we willing to submit our lives and ourselves to His way and His timing.
Patience. This characteristic is essential if we are to remain in our present situation and refrain from taking action until God directs us otherwise.
Courage. When people second-guess our motives or pressure us to make a decision, godly courage is required. Through our practice of quiet dependence on the Lord, we will be able to stand firm.
Waiting on the Lord is not a waste of time; it is a declaration that God is in charge. Furthermore, it demonstrates a significant investment in kingdom work. Why not invest your time in this wise way?
Frank
hang in there...for me the detachmnt really didn happen like a light switch.
it may have been working toward that goal for a long time but suddenly, one day, it was like a light was switched and i was truly detached.
there have still been anxiety riddled moments
some 2nd guessing of my judgements
it is scary to let go
because even detaching, while we can see in theory how good it would be for us, is frightening
because in detaching
we truly are...letting them go
not like a boomerang where we expect them to come back
but we are letting them go
to come back or stay gone
and
we are setting ourselves free to see that they are really gone
Thank you everyone for your support. I am pursuing a improved quality of life and letting go, saying goodbye to what was.
And, I really really need prayers for me, my girls and my WAW.
Frank,
Sending ((((((((hugs)))))))) and Prayers
stayed up till 4 am working on a project. Made good progress.
It's funny how when I feel like I'm moving forward W does something that hits me in the heart.
she sent out an e-mail to all her contacts stating that she had a new Gmail address (I have provided her mail server for her personal domain) and that she now has a P.O. box.
Kind of her declaration to the world that she doesn't live here any more.
That hurt.
I guess sitting here saying 'this can't be happening' is foolish. It has and it is. She's gone for good and I'm going to be ok. I'll make sure my kids are ok also.
Was talking to D17 about stuff last night. We got on the topic of the family breakup and she said said that for half her life she's lived with this situation. I told her that this sucks and I hurt every day and it seems like her mom doesn't hurt at all.
D17 said sarcastically "No, she doesn't".
Handing it over to God.
I guess I need to look at this as just the next steps towards Divorce. Nothing other than that. It's not personal, she just gave up and is moving on.
Frank,
I sympathize.
This is what she believes she needs to do. I know I've shared my thoughts with you before, but I continue to believe that there is only one thing left that your wife has NOT done. And that one thing is what she is hanging her hat on right now.
She needs to move on. It's on her heart, it's in her head, it is her primary focus in terms of a life goal.
I'm sorry for how that hurts. Because I know it cuts like a knife.
Each of these "things" she does is entirely consistent with her goal - a life apart from you where she will be able to live in happiness.
And maybe she will, maybe she won't.
But I would say the chances that she is going to change her mind BEFORE she actually goes out and does it is very small.
You continue to allow her actions to hurt you. And maybe it's just not something that any of us can avoid. I'm sure that the "separating" things that my ex did hurt me as well.
I just think maybe it's time you find a way to hold her actions up to what you know is clearly her current goal. And at least allow yourself the grace to tell yourself, "this is not a personal attack by her on you." I know it seems that way, like some kind of indictment against you. But at this point, I really don't think that's it.
She's just doing what comes next.
I've gotten very tired of the DB'ing lingo like detaching, getting a life, etc. It's flung about (by myself and others) far too much and soon begins to sound like an article of clothing that we just need to pull out and wear around. None of it is either that clean or that easy. ALL of it is a process whose most important component is time.
Don't you think that at least in some ways that you ARE finding it easier to not get slayed by her actions? It seems that way to me at least.
You are the lighthouse Frank, remember that. Your role now is to be the solid one, the one who can be counted on to remain the committed and honest man that your wife knows you are.
Her role is to do what she needs to do.
Be a great Dad Frank. Be a great programmer, or whatever other technological voodoo it is that you do. Be a man of integrity, strength, courage, and confidence.
Be the shining light Frank.
If she finds herself lost one day, yours may be the only light she will be able to see.
And no, that was not thrown out there to keep you attached.
Lots of prayers for you and your family.
Blessings,
Bill
guess I need to look at this as just the next steps towards Divorce. Nothing other than that. It's not personal, she just gave up and is moving on.
Ugggg........
She is pushing your buttons Frank. On purpose.
Ball is in your court.........
guess I need to look at this as just the next steps towards Divorce. Nothing other than that. It's not personal, she just gave up and is moving on.
Ugggg........
She is pushing your buttons Frank. On purpose.
Ball is in your court.........
Why do you say that? She mailed her family, the kids, her friends. I was just 'on the list'.
Why does she need to push my buttons?
Ball is in my court to do what exactly?
I did reply to her e-mail and told her I would move her other E-Mail that I host for her to gmail also so she could have control of it and it would be off my servers.
Don't you think that at least in some ways that you ARE finding it easier to not get slayed by her actions? It seems that way to me at least.
Yes, it's less and less hurtful. I don't make any attempts to interact with her any more. And she rarely calls me except to ask about coming by to see D13 sometimes.
You are the lighthouse Frank, remember that. Your role now is to be the solid one, the one who can be counted on to remain the committed and honest man that your wife knows you are.
Yes, I know that. For myself, for my kids and in a way for her.
Her role is to do what she needs to do.
Yes, that much is clear.
Be the shining light Frank.
If she finds herself lost one day, yours may be the only light she will be able to see.
Or the only one that will shine back on her. Everyone else may be dark by then.
And no, that was not thrown out there to keep you attached.
I know. Thanks Bill
Frank.
I'm at a loss for what to say. you keep stepping in front of the bus and wondering why it hurts.
she is what she is, you are what you are.
she is driving the bus, you keep running in front of it, hoping to change it's course, and the MFer keeps rolling right over you.
dude, I know what it feels like, it [censored] sucks, hurts, paralyzes.
you need to get to the point where you feel that when she hooks up with a gardner, plumber, "healer". you just shrug and say " it is what it is"
and frank, this is the most honest thing to remember in your post married life....
the "wonder bra" is playing the biggest part in the greatest fraud in man kind..
Frank.
I'm at a loss for what to say. you keep stepping in front of the bus and wondering why it hurts.
she is what she is, you are what you are.
she is driving the bus, you keep running in front of it, hoping to change it's course, and the MFer keeps rolling right over you.
dude, I know what it feels like, it [censored] sucks, hurts, paralyzes.
you need to get to the point where you feel that when she hooks up with a gardner, plumber, "healer". you just shrug and say " it is what it is"
Yep, I'm working on it. Getting out of the way.
and frank, this is the most honest thing to remember in your post married life....
the "wonder bra" is playing the biggest part in the greatest fraud in man kind..
Oh yeah, my W wears them so it looks like she has them.
Thanks Ford, so are you. We all have our ups and downs in life. Sometimes it's during the downs that we learn who we can depend on.
In case Fig, AG, Barbie and any of the others who got banned for posting the dreaded 'personal information' are cruising the board, I just want you all to know that I'll miss you if you don't come back. I understand your position and support all of you.
WTH are you talking about fig got banned???
WTH are you talking about fig got banned???
Barbiedoll, Beth, Qoe, Fig, AG, etc.
The thread of death! Be sure to read all the pages, especially the E-Mail posting party
The evidence seems to indicate that AG posted her E-Mail so SG could contact her, so other people posted theirs under the impression that it was now 'ok'.
So, rather than give them a warning, they were banned.
It's amazing that a resource like this, where people actually help promote MWD's products and services while also helping each other, they are treated like children by immature powers that be.
I wonder if Michelle approves of this, or is she also as shallow?
(leenie)
DB BOARD (leenie)
Why was this thread locked? << was locked then unlocked.
figs thread that was locked
I'm pretty much up to speed and figured the usual suspect was right in the middle of it.
I was right.
That woman couldn't "manage" her own ass out of a wet paper bag.
I don't know what cracker jack sh*t a person has to pass through to "qualify" to be a moderator but I hope no one laid out any money for it in her case.
I didn't need this adrenaline rush at bedtime.
Whatever will I do until I wind back down???
Lemme see...
The evidence seems to indicate that AG posted her E-Mail so SG could contact her, so other people posted theirs under the impression that it was now 'ok'.
Frank--you're smarter than that.
And if they want to be reinstated, they know what to do.
Sorry for the upcoming hijack Frank.
This situation from yesterday is ridiculous.
And I mean from BOTH parties standpoint.
The moderation on this board continues to be inconsistent. A moderator, by title I would presume, is here to MODERATE. To me that implies keeping things on an even keel, smoothing out the rough spots, mediating disputes, etc.
Too often moderation on this board means banning and post editing. Perhaps (though a political moderate/conservative) I am too liberal in my leaning here, but I would expect those two actions to be absolute LAST resorts, not primary avenues of dealing with "situations."
But for those who posted email addresses under the guise that "we figured it must be ok since someone else did it,".....please. We are all adults here. Normally when someone inadvertently posts contact information, others will post to the effect that this is not currently allowed, reminding the original poster of the policy.
I can appreciate taking a stand. I've done so myself a few times. But like I tell my kids in class, be prepared for the consequences when you make decisions like that. And take those consequences like an adult.
As others have pointed out far too many times, this is THEIR board, not ours, however ridiculous that might be. If THEY want to throw their weight around, it WILL be thrown around, right or wrong.
What ultimately has happened here is that this community has LOST several posters who offered valuable advice and support for other members of the board.
The powers that be HOPEFULLY realize this, though everyone I think will understand if some of us are a bit skeptical of that.
Again, sorry for the hijack Frank.
Bill
unfortunately they don't want valuable information shared unless it coincides with the books
The evidence seems to indicate that AG posted her E-Mail so SG could contact her, so other people posted theirs under the impression that it was now 'ok'.
Frank--you're smarter than that.
And if they want to be reinstated, they know what to do.
Right.
They have to pucker up and kiss your ass via Virginia, which you call "apologizing".
I gotta agree with Bworl - both sides took it way too extreme. Please try to put tempers aside and make up.
I am somewhat reminded of the Soup Nazi scenes from Seinfield...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJyGJQx2Fgk
Whoa--I thought I was on a thread about healing, but y'all are giving me a headache!
I think I've seen other people do this once or twice--but if one of the "banned" ones just creates a new name, if they're still interested in posting, they could probably come in under the radar. Just a thought....
I think I've seen other people do this once or twice--but if one of the "banned" ones just creates a new name, if they're still interested in posting, they could probably come in under the radar. Just a thought....
No, I do belive you would have to resign on from a different computer. Not sure but its what I do believe happens. Then again never tried it. Right now I think the banners need some down time. Hopefully they will come back.
I think I've seen other people do this once or twice--but if one of the "banned" ones just creates a new name, if they're still interested in posting, they could probably come in under the radar. Just a thought....
No, I do belive you would have to resign on from a different computer. Not sure but its what I do believe happens. Then again never tried it. Right now I think the banners need some down time. Hopefully they will come back.
That could be. I never tried it either, but it makes sense.
The evidence seems to indicate that AG posted her E-Mail so SG could contact her, so other people posted theirs under the impression that it was now 'ok'.
Frank--you're smarter than that.
And if they want to be reinstated, they know what to do.
Yes I am. I'm also more compassionate than that. I also see people for who they really are. Their fears, their strengths. Their true selves.
I see it through their words and their actions. I feel their feelings.
I know who they really are. I have no illusions.
Compassionate and elequant too!
I wish I understood the no-email policy. There must be a good reason.
I have contacted several of you off line (after posting my email here before I knew the policy) and it has done a world of good for me and those I talk to. I cannot say how many times those emails or phone calls have been lifesavers to me and others. Too bad there is not a way to private message others with my email address - after all I should be able to send my email to those I want as long as I cannot hold the BB responsible for any downside.
Just a thought for our moderators to ponder. If it really helps, and I am here to tell you that it does, can you not find a way for us to share such data while keeping it "private"?
Compassionate and elequant too!
I wish I understood the no-email policy. There must be a good reason.
I have contacted several of you off line (after posting my email here before I knew the policy) and it has done a world of good for me and those I talk to. I cannot say how many times those emails or phone calls have been lifesavers to me and others. Too bad there is not a way to private message others with my email address - after all I should be able to send my email to those I want as long as I cannot hold the BB responsible for any downside.
Just a thought for our moderators to ponder. If it really helps, and I am here to tell you that it does, can you not find a way for us to share such data while keeping it "private"?
The no-email policy as stated seems to be based on misinterpretation of 'liability'.
The laws don't hold Bulletin Board owners responsible for members actions. If that were the case, Yahoo groups couldn't exist. Myspace couldn't exist.
If I wanted to be concerned about the law here, I would check with my lawyers to determine if by creating this site does MWD imply that she endorses the kind of 'therapy' being given by the posters?
I would imagine that a lawyer was consulted and no liability was determined. Otherwise the site wouldn't be here.
So, the 'stalker liability / protection' excuse is just that - an excuse. There is some other reason not being stated.
Perhaps being able to support each other on the phone or via e-mail cuts in to the revenue generated by calling the DB Coaches?
Or at least the perception is there that it does.
Just a theory. Don't really care any more.
I think I know you better than you not caring. You and I have been at this too long to care for us but I still remember when I was a newbee and how this place really helped - so I offer this to try to make things better.
I just request the moderators strive to improve the BB rather than punish. Be proactive rather than reactive. That will help those who come here for help.
Interesting thought about the coaches but I think most realize I am not a qualified coach on this subject. Many I have talked to have also talked to the coaches here.
Anyway, maybe time to lock this thread so we can get back to supporting frank_D.
The Mariage Builders discussion boards allow you to post email addresses and urls of personal web sites. I have not heard of a rash of them getting gunned down in the news by pro-divorce whack jobs.
Maybe this site should have a button link to the facebook divorce busting group.
I suppose even mentioning the name of Williard Harley here will be a cause for censorship.
Back to my stuff.
Haven't talked to W or gotten a reply to the e-mail I sent to her after she sent out the 'I have a new e-mail and mailing address' E-Mail to everyone.
she calls the kids cell phones to talk to them and she does her morning routines with the girls here at the house.
She has the "I'm free and independent" mindset.
It only hurts a little now. The more I stay out of contact the more I heal.
D17 had a meltdown today. She has been feeling like she is responsible for the upkeep of the house and her sister, and a lot of things. I didn't realize that she felt that way. I have to do a better job of taking care of things.
Kind of funny how the first week W was out of the house she begged me to let her come over and clean. It's been 5 weeks now and she hasn't done that since.
I think she's got her 'moving on' and 'detachment' down pat. For her sake I hope she has a decent life. I know I will.
It only hurts a little now. The more I stay out of contact the more I heal.
This is so very true! And when you start going out with ladies that appreciate you, you will start to forget that you ever were hurting.
I am sure you are doing all you can now to help relieve some of the pressure your D17 is under.
She has the "I'm free and independent" mindset.
Yea, free and independent. Just like a teen.
With frank paying the bills. With frank taking care of business. With frank letting her come in each morning to be mom. With frank offering flexibiliy where the kids are concerned. With frank giving her time rather than pressing for D, implying a safety net she can "come home" to.
Yes, a great life without responsibility.
I wish I could be there to see the reality on her face when reality hits. And it will. How she is living and behaving now will be a memory once she really is alone.
Keep going frank. Can I offer a word of caution? "With frank doing..." as I wrote above, there is a fine line before you cross over into enabling behavior on your part or her taking advantage of the situation at your expense.
She has the "I'm free and independent" mindset.
Yea, free and independent. Just like a teen.
With frank paying the bills. With frank taking care of business. With frank letting her come in each morning to be mom. With frank offering flexibiliy where the kids are concerned. With frank giving her time rather than pressing for D, implying a safety net she can "come home" to.
Yes, a great life without responsibility.
Yeah, it sucks this is the way it is but I do it for the girls sake, not hers.
I wish I could be there to see the reality on her face when reality hits. And it will. How she is living and behaving now will be a memory once she really is alone.
She'll never be 'alone'. She seems to be able to find an OM so she doesn't have to actually BE alone. However, she will be financially alone at some point.
Or, she will find that most of the men she meets are incomplete.
Or she will be happy with someone simpler.
Keep going frank. Can I offer a word of caution? "With frank doing..." as I wrote above, there is a fine line before you cross over into enabling behavior on your part or her taking advantage of the situation at your expense.
Agreed. I don't give her anything more than I have to to keep the girls happy.
I just got a call from an Uncle that my dad died. We weren't really
close but it still sucks.
I sent an e-mail to W letting her know.
My mail:
My dad died. D17 knows. Thought I should tell you.
Her reply:
Frank
I am so sorry. If there anything I can do for you please let me know.
She is currently here, in her room, on her computer, reading and replying to this e-mail.
Yes, she cares so much.
One thing I'm learning today from this is you need to make your life count for something. My dad didn't really do that. He gave up.
Frank, I am so sorry to hear of your fathers passing. My heart goes out to you.
[censored] Frank
so sorry man
Just following up. I went into the house and saw W as she was leaving. She did stop and say she was sorry. I was angry and told her I don't want to talk about this, it's none of her business.
I guess I hurt her and made her a little angry. I realized that I shouldn't have said that so I apologized for being angry, but I just didn't want to talk about it.
She really wasn't that hurt. I can see the lack of feelings for me and the lack of real empathy. She really has distanced herself from me. at least she's spending more time with the girls.
We talked about a few things related to the girls and the house. she tried to be pleasant but she was uncomfortable. so was I.
at least the animosity is gone.
The biggest thing is not being able to ever have some resolution to some issues we had. He wasn't a bad man. He just didn't really know how to deal with some of the things life sends you.
I never fit in with my family. I was always different. I was hoping I could make a family that would last but it didn't. Pretty much because I picked the wrong partner and didn't take care of myself.
I'm determined to do better.
Sorry to hear of your loss Frank. Even though you were not close, the passing of your Father is still a significant part of your life. You may not realize it on the surface, but those feelings may creep up in different ways, like you just mentioned. Recognize them for what they are and work through them.
Will keep you and your family members in prayers.
N.
(((((((((((Frank))))))))))))))
Frank, I am so sorry to hear about your dad! Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers!
The biggest thing is not being able to ever have some resolution to some issues we had. He wasn't a bad man. He just didn't really know how to deal with some of the things life sends you.
I will say a prayer for you tonight.
My father? Same here. He was a good man with issues. It took me several years after he died to process that.
So will you.
Strength and Honor.
wow, there must be a black cloud over this day.
my prayers for you and your dad, and healing of relationships.
Frank_D,
I am sorry to hear about the passing of your father! Lifting you and your family up in prayer tonight!
Frank, I don't have much to add about your W. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear about you father.
Frank....
I'm sorry to hear of your father's passing. Life definitely goes by too quickly. I hope that many blessings will come your way in these days to come.
sg
Sorry Frank.
You're all in our prayers.
Frank I'm sorry to hear about your Dad.
Love ya,
Amy
((((((((Frank))))))))
Hope you are feeling better today.
Spitfire
Thinking of you Frank, hoping for better days ahead for you.
Direct your anger to be useful and not hurtful.
My dad wasn't a great guy, or even a good guy. I believe his greatest act of love for his daughters was to remove himself from our day to day lives.
hope everything is going well for you buddy, take care
My D13 has been upset all day. She's never met my dad but is taking it hard because she says "It's sad when a family member dies". I'm ok, the hurt comes and goes. Seems like it wouldn't hurt so much given the lack of a relationship but it does.
I've had too much loss this year. I guess I will look at this as a wake up call for life. Start living it.
Frank,
Sorry to hear about your Father.
Dear Frank.....I am sorry to hear abou the loss of your father. We talked at times at great length about this....and some similarities about your dad and mine. I know that you have found the right 'place' in your heart to have closure. As in divorce, we all have choices to make in our lives. All we can do is learn....from...their choices and ours.
Bless you frank. You've helped many here...and still do.
FIB
FIB ~ That's a very sweet post that you wrote to Frank and I definitely agree with that last part.
Have a good weekend gentlemen.
I'm very sorry for your loss, Frank. Even though you didn't have a strong relationship with your father, it must still be painful.
God bless,
Nicola
My condolences, Frank.
Take extra good care of yourself and your kids.
Well, life goes on.
I looked up my dad's obituary on the hometown newspaper. No mention that he has a son, me, and two other kids, my half sister and half brother from his second marriage.
Just his wife, their daughter and his brothers and sister.
Par for the course. His wife is weird.
I've been working late a lot, till 1 am or so because I'm working with a project where the people are in Amsterdam so they're getting to work around 9pm my time.
sometimes I make something to eat before I go to bed because I'm hungry. If I don't clean up then the next morning W sees a mess in the kitchen and decides that I must be drinking and out of control because I used to eat late and night and make a mess when I was drinking.
So, I really go out of my way to keep it clean.
Of course, since my dad died she is hyper sensitive to everything because she expects me to lose it.
So, on thursday at 1 am or so I had cooked some eggs and onions and left the pan on the stove and since I used olive oil it had splattered a little around the pan on the stove.
I left it out as I was really tired and went to bed.
Well thursday morning I was asleep while she was here making breakfast for the kids. She came to my room and knocked on the door. She then proceeded to tell me I needed to 'get my act together' because the house is 'falling apart' and 'the girls need you!'
She told me how she had to clean up this terrible mess and the T-Shirt I was wearing had oil spots on it (I am not great at cooking without being messy. I have a lot of shirts with spots on them because of this) so Obviously I'm drunk all the time and she tells me her cell phone service was turned off this morning for non payment and how can she get off the family plan?
I told her that I must have forgot to pay it, I'll do that right now (which I did, I have the money just been busy).
I told her that I am NOT 'falling apart', that I'm working till 1 to 4 am in the morning and making money.
I was calm and basically told her that I'm quite fine.
She said "Well the girls need you so keep it together"
Right. They don't need her. They need me.
I had an interesting talk with her brother that evening. I haven't talked to him since before the bomb and he right off told me he doesn't support her decisions.
But what I found more interesting is that he said she is a 'spoiled princess who needs a reality check'. Wow.
He went on to say that when he lived with us for a year about 4 years ago (he was in a depression and couldn't hold a job so we took him in) he said that he couldn't believe how W treated me. Basically she would get down on my when I was depressed and drinking and keep telling me to fix myself instead of saying 'how can I help? What can WE do?'
He didn't really like that but didn't say anything then because of his own problems.
So it got me thinking about the mornings exchange.
"Keep it together Frank", not "What can I do to help Frank?"
"The girls need you Frank" not "The girls need us both to be healthy"
Another nail in her coffin. I'm starting to feel like I haven't really lost anything.
Her brother also said I should cut her loose so she can be totally independent and see how lucky she was to have me, and how badly she really treated me when I was down. As he said, she is acting like a spoiled brat who wants what SHE wants instead of an adult who takes responsibility.
He suggested I give her responsibility for a portion of the utilities as a way of her supporting the girls. Good Idea. She won't pay but I can put it 'on the books' as debt for her.
Here is another thing that irks me. She is going away on this 6 day massage training retreat. She told me that the people who run it aren't making her pay because she has no money to pay. Instead she will do office work for them to pay it back.
Now, at $10/hour and she works 4 hours a day 3 days a week for them, how long will it take to pay back the likely $800 fee? And, she's gone for 6-7 days which means she NOT EARNING ANY MONEY for that time period.
Is this a prudent financial decision??? Um, no.
But she wants to go so she goes.
She gives me $60 a week to help pay car insurance and cell phone plans. she always says "I wish it could be more". Well get a magic lamp and a Genie cuz that's the only way wishes come true.
She whines about how bad August was financially for her and then sabotages October.
Her brother said to me "Next time she whines about her finances tell her to go apply for a job at a gas station or Mcdonalds instead of sitting on her ass".
Maybe I'll go get some applications for her.
Like I said, I'm really starting to wonder if I'm losing something here.
Last night I called my dads wife. I told her that I was happy that she stayed with him, that I know he had a hard life and that I was grateful for her being with him, that it was a blessing.
She cried and told me "You don't know how much that means to me".
See, all these years she thought I didn't like her. Realistically, I just didn't know her. So I was able to give her some healing.
I looked up my brother's phone number and called him also. I haven't talked to him in about 9 years. He at the time he was a mess and had used me for money.
Now, he's got his life together and went to the funeral in NY, by driving from where he lives in AL. We talked for about an hour, reconnecting, healing. He told me to call his/my sister which I'll do.
I guess I'm less alone, and feeling like maybe there is hope for some connection with my family.
Ad far as W, well there's nothing there. I'm at about 10% left of 'caring' since it's painfully clear that given a chance to do something SHE wants to do as opposed to paying her obligations to her kids, like support money, she will choose herself.
I guess I should find out what she'd have to pay legally if we were separated, not that she COULD pay, just so she sees her obligations.
But I almost think 'what good will it do?' None really.
So, as Bworl said in a post to jeff223,
We don't need to be on the bottom to begin working our way back up. Start where you are. Work your way up from there.
Working my way up slowly...
Frank,
I'm glad you got to reconnect with family.
Personally I've found, though I'm not "up and happy" because of my situation, I'm much more compassionate and vulnerable. It's helped me connect with family and friends in some ways.
Regarding finances and your wife, she won't get serious and responsbile until she has to. The school of financial hard-knocks still awaits her.
Perhaps weaning her off the Frank support-system will move her in more responsible directions.
--Theoden
Frank,
I'm really glad you called your Dad's wife and your brother. That was a good thing to do and I'm very proud of you. Do follow-up and call your sister too. And don't let too much time go by before you call your brother again. Stay connected.
I've told you a hundred times that your W really hasn't faced the true test of being on her own. Sounds like her family is telling you the same thing. She has so much to learn and figure out for herself. Time will teach her about life's realities because no one else can. Keep plugging away and your situation will get better. A word of caution...the more desperate she becomes, financially and otherwise, the bumpier this ride will get. When she feels trapped, she will lash out. Try and get yourself as financially stable as possible so that you can fend off her attacks. And you will be attacked. Sorry.
Hugs,
Spitfire
Thanks guys for the comments. I'm still feeling good today.
W came over this morning. I worked till 2 am last night since it is 'monday morning' in Amsterdam where my client is. So I didn't get up until she was leaving.
When I went downstairs she was on crutches and told me she dislocated her kneecap on Saturday. She was planning on going to the doctor to get it fixed later today. Of course, she is a massage therapist and has to stand to work.
Almost exactly a year ago she broke her foot and had to cut back on her work for the same reason. I drove her places and of course got her a scooter thing so she could get around.
I just told her "Let us know if there's anything we can do to help" 'Us' being the girls and I.
So she took D13 to school. Then called me about 5 minutes later because D13 had forgotten her locker key and could I bring it out to the car and she'd take it to her.
So I did, she said thank you and I turned and walked away. She looks kind of haggard. Don't think the grass is very green today for her.
Anyway, doesn't matter to me. This is her life.
I like the Patton quote:
"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom."
Pretty weird that your W and my W both were nagging on us this weekend. Projecting their own faults upon us.
Everyone keeps telling me she is going to hit rock bottom in a few years just as they are saying to you. I have seen this movie before with my bother and best friends ex's - everything bad in their lives that can blame on their ex H's who are both good men.
Keep in mind that there comes a time where it is financially advantageous for you to file for a D. If you know that the marriage has no chance, sometimes waiting until your financial situation is better can be worse in regards to your W being able to get more spousal support.
Everyone keeps telling me she is going to hit rock bottom in a few years just as they are saying to you. I have seen this movie before with my bother and best friends ex's - everything bad in their lives that can blame on their ex H's who are both good men.
Thing is that whether they hit 'rock bottom' or not isn't going to make a difference in how we live OUR lives. They don't want us any more, for whatever reasons they've come up with, and that's ok.
We don't 'need'. we desire and expect.
So, I'm just dropping the rope. I pretty much am hurt still, but I don't really think I want her to come back.
W called a little while ago, sounded very upset. She asked me if I can take the kids to school because her dislocated knee problem requires her to go in for MRI's tomorrow and it's worse than she thought.
This is really going to cost her since like most people we have a big deductible to keep premiums down. She still hasn't paid off all the doctor bills from last year. I hope she has been keeping up the premiums.
I told her ok, tried to be polite ans said "If there's anything we can do for you let us know" and told her I'd bring the girls by to see her. She said it didn't matter she was probably going to bed.
I was on the road bringing D17 and her boyfriend home anyway so we stopped and I dropped them off. W was outside on her crutches so they got out and went to talk to her. I stayed in the car and asked her if she was going to be all right but she kind of gave me an "I don't want you to care about me" attitude. So I left.
I went home and got D13 to go see her mom also. I drove her down the street and dropped her off and told her to give her mom lots of love.
As I was leaving OM came out of the house to go home. What a dorky looking guy. W has traded down, but they always do. I imagine he felt uncomfortable when the girls were there, or W told him he should go home. Guess she's not proud of him. It does go to show that the OP usually is irrelevant in the scheme of things. They're a weak link in the puzzle.
Anyway, it kind of felt bad to not be able to be there for her, and to be somewhat rejected by her. But that's stuff we just have to get used to.
....I've told you a hundred times that your W really hasn't faced the true test of being on her own. Sounds like her family is telling you the same thing. She has so much to learn and figure out for herself. Time will teach her about life's realities because no one else can. Keep plugging away and your situation will get better. A word of caution...the more desperate she becomes, financially and otherwise, the bumpier this ride will get. When she feels trapped, she will lash out. Try and get yourself as financially stable as possible so that you can fend off her attacks. And you will be attacked. Sorry.
Hugs,
Spitfire
I can not emphasize enough how much I agree with Spitfire here.
Stay alert..
I was very impressed that you called your Dad's wife after the slight in the obituary.
It just speaks volumes about your character.
You're an awesome person, Frank_D.
Amy
Thanks amyc.
D13 came home a few minutes ago from spending some time with W. Apparently they played some board games with her friends daughter and her boyfriend and guess what, OM was there.
D13 said she felt uncomfortable because mom likes him and 'technically you are not divorced yet'. I told her that's true and that what mom is doing is wrong. D13 said that I should tell W that and I said I have but she just wants to do whatever she wants to make herself happy.
D13 said "You're just upset because mom likes him and they're closer in age than you are".
I had to think about that, her observation of her mom, me and her mom kind of rejecting me. Kids know stuff I guess.
I've been pretty hopeful till now, a bit slow to 'get it'. I asked God for a sign and here it is. She's not lonely or hurting or anything. She's got the life she's been wanting, except for the financial stability. A 'nice guy' who she has things in common with, and none of Frank's problems. And of course I'll fix the financial ones because I have no choice - my survival depends on it.
This divorce is not going to be busted. She's like her mom and just wants to live the 'simple' life and not have to deal with the kinds of issues that came into our life. They were huge, but I was an over emotional over achiever who crashed and burned and stayed there way too long.
Never again. Never again.
Silly me, we're only 'technically' married. In her mind we're not married at all. Just a technicality.
I think this is the last dagger. At least I hope so. I'm keeping my promises to God.
My birthday is soon. This is the third one she's ruined.
In retrospect, it's been amazing to see her go up and down and sideways the first 7 months. Then in july by random chance OM shows up in her life.
Now she seems calmer / happier but sort of uncomfortable around me. Doesn't call or talk to me much unless she has to. Makes sense, she has someone paying attention to her who probably makes her feel good about herself.
My kids accept that this is the way it is.
I guess I've learned my lesson here. Be smart about who you marry but more importantly make sure that you take care of your own needs first, not last.
Because if you don't, you won't survive. And what's worse, if you did choose someone who wasn't strong they will bail.
she's just like her mom. what a surprise.
I'm done, really done. Going dark as best I can given the situation. So I can heal and move on with my life.
Oh frank i am so sorry that you are going through this. I really hope that this is 'the last dagger'; that this is your rock bottom and you can use it to project forward into recovery.
You deserve *so* much more than this.
Go as dark as you can. Take care of yourself.
Nutty x
Frank,
You know, when you write about your kids, it makes me realize that I'm mostly concerned for the kids in all our situations.
I admire your 17 year old's wisdom.
I sense your 13 year old is getting there.
It was fine for you to tell your 13 year old what your W was doing was wrong. You might even add that's why you asked her to leave, because she was cheating on you. Your daughter probably already knows it.
Now back to you. You need to be OK for those girls. Not only to be a provider, but to be the emotional and spiritual strength they need. Your wife has thrown them some serious curve balls and they need you.
The hard part for all of us is letting go of the notion we can stop our spouses from throwing the curve balls.
As you approach your birthday, I'll celebrate you.
--Theoden
Very powerful posts frank. You sound good. A bit too logical but that is okay. Go back and reread Dr Gray about ensuring the emotions get to run also. You are hurt and it is okay to feel that. And anger, and sadness, and fear, and ...
She's not lonely or hurting or anything. She's got the life she's been wanting, except for the financial stability. A 'nice guy' who she has things in common with, and none of Frank's problems.
You know, I feel the same way - that they are so happy now. But I know better and you do to. The 'happiness' thing is only an assumption on our part. Her life is not a bed of roses and guilt is a powerful thing.
I do feel for her but this is all her choice. Nothing excuses breaking up a family the way she is doing it (not that there is a good way, but there are less painful ways).
Frank's problems? She is hooked up to a loser. Remember the last time and the guy dumped her? I am making book it happens again. But even if he does not he is a loser - hooking up with a married woman.
And forget the age thing. She will never be happy with someone her own age or younger. She needs that father figure after all. So did mine.
just wants to live the 'simple' life and not have to deal with the kinds of issues that came into our life. They were huge ...
Interesting I actually got the 'simple life' speech when we decided to separate. Some people never grow up. It is okay to dream a better life but they also need to see the harsh realities around us. And do something about them rather than run away.
They know nothing but cut and run.
...but I was an over emotional over achiever who crashed and burned and stayed there way too long.
Never again. Never again.
same here.
This is so very true! And when you start going out with ladies that appreciate you, you will start to forget that you ever were hurting.
Sadly, this is true frank. Well...sad for the old M, which, for both of us, is dead. A woman at my hospital is showing interest in me. She is divorced with one child. For the first time....I openly told someone that I was in a difficult divorce. The wife of my D5's soccer coach started a convo with me last weekend. She recently lost her mom to cancer. I was able to get her to open up and talk about it. Sometimes, this is where being a physician helps. We talked about her father, who is now alone. Perhaps, my confiding in her was no surprise...I sit alone at my daughter's soccer games on Saturday's.
Last weekend, she walked up to me and stuffed an envelope in my sweatshirt pocket...the number of a divorced woman...friend of hers. Although I am not really ready for this...I accepted it. There will be life for you again.
It was fine for you to tell your 13 year old what your W was doing was wrong. You might even add that's why you asked her to leave, because she was cheating on you.
Theoden, I know that you've helped me in the past...we even talked once. But...I do have to disagree again. This is not right, IMO, and even goes against all counseling recommendations for children of divorcing parents.
Frank...I don't recommend that you say such things and, I know, as a man, you wouldn't do that. I will repeat what others have told me...children are a lot brighter than you think and the truth will out. Frank...stay to the high road. The kids don't have to hear it or see it in print. Saying things are such as 'mom needs to decide what is best in her life' are MUCH better than saying 'mommy is a cheater'.
Think.
Finally, frank, I, also, admire you for making that phone call to your stepmother. That was simply plain courage, strength and
honor.
As for your W, all things being equal and, jokingly saying
the PDF says, almost all regret this 2-3 years down the line. Those are rear-view mirror comments...pieces of information that you find out long after you've moved on. Don't wait for that to happen. My dad used to give me one of those corny WWII lines when I was growing up:
Don't wait for your ship to come in. Row out and meet it.
Stay strong.
BIF
I agree with FIB, you have to really try to not say anything negative about your wayward wife around the kids. The kids will come to their own conclusions over time.
Here is an excellent article about divorced parenting mistakes:
http://parenting.families.com/blog/top-12-divorced-parenting-mistakesI had a difficult question posed to me last week by my much younger kids - "Daddy, why dont you want to meet and be friends with Ed (OM)?". The only quick answer I could come up with was that they would understand when they got older. My inner thoughts wanted to say "because he is a dishonorable wife stealing scumbag!"
Thanks Nutty, Theo, Jeff, FIB.
I'm at acceptance. Since around March W has been deliberately trying to detach from me. I remember when she yelled that at me "I HAVE to detach from you!" like it was a goal she was afraid she couldn't get to. I suspect she had her "life coach" telling her she needed to so she could 'grow'.
We all know the weird behaviors she went through the next several months 'detaching'. It wasn't until she was 'house sitting' and she met OM who came to the house looking for her friend 'to talk'.
So now she's 'detached' and moving on. Because she has someone to fill that empty place inside her. Who knows, maybe they can start up a codependent relationship like we eventually had. All her friends are rooting for her because, my gosh, she is happy now.
As for me, you're all right. I'm 'dad' and I'm all my kids have that represents any kind of stability. I'll give them a better life after divorce than my Dad did for me. Because I know how that feels.
Frank - no longer a victim
FIB,
I know the textbook answer is not to get the kids in the middle and don't villanize your spouse in a D.
I have never mentioned my wife's affair with my ex-best friend to my kids. When my son asked me why we don't see OM, I just said we are busy and had a parting of ways.
If my wife left me for another man, I would tell them this is called adultery and it's wrong. They know it's wrong, they've had a strong community of faith around them for a long time.
If I were to D my wife, the only religious ground I have (which I take seriously) is adultery. If I chose that option, I would tell my children why I was divorcing her. Divorce is a public act with grave consequences. To tell the kids, "mommy and daddy just can't live together anymore" is vaguely truthful, but cruel. It gives them the impression that the world is random and chaotic. They live in moral universe and need to know it's rules. I would tell them that their mommy loves them and they should love her. It's OK to love people even if they do wrong things.
I don't think Frank needs to reveal much to them, anyway -- they know.
--Theoden
KerryK,
had a difficult question posed to me last week by my much younger kids - "Daddy, why dont you want to meet and be friends with Ed (OM)?". The only quick answer I could come up with was that they would understand when they got older. My inner thoughts wanted to say "because he is a dishonorable wife stealing scumbag!"
Wow...that's tough bro.
Truth is, he is dishonorable. He's a wife-stealer, and a home-wrecker. He's hurting your kids, and mocking your honor. In another age, Frank, FIB and I would have ridden into town with you and thrashed the bastard. In this age we are supposed to mouth, "I'm OK, you OK, it's all OK".
I would be honored if you asked me to join you in your posse to string up the scumbag.
Since when is it OK to white-wash the truth? Are your children supposed to embrace this villain? Are you supposed to encourage them to accept as a surrogate father a contemptible piece of sh*t?
I know, by saying this about him, you are implicitly saying the same thing about your wife and their mother.
How about them learning to care for this man, in spite of the fact that what he's doing is wrong? Much like they can love their mom even though what she's doing is wrong. Yet -- this is key -- they understand that it's wrong. Are we not mature enough to admit to our children that adults do wrong things? Is the moral universe suspended because a spouse has an affair?
It feels to me that straying spouses and their lovers are emotional terrorists who stap bombs to themselves and hide behind the kids.
--theoden
Goodness gracious!What a spectacular group of Alpha Males we have over here!
I feel like I'm standing around the corner eavesdropping in on a secret "Man" meeting.
But seriously, you guys have no clue how far outside your circle your teaching reaches.
We women learn a lot from you.
We learn what real mean are.
Thank you.
Now by all means reconvene and gimme some more of that Alpha Male stuff!
Theoden...I admire your strength on this. What really bothers me, still, is ..well...the acceptance in a sense, by society, of infidelity as a 'well it's going on everywhere with everyone'. I still ask myself many questions:
-is marriage a dated institution?
-are their REAL physiologically changes that occur that DO make monogamy difficult?
Dunno.
I still think that kids should be spared 'sordid details'. Yes...they need to know the truth. Agreed that you can only sugar-coat it so much. But, well...for me....someday..either over a beer of a long walk with my son....I will talk with him if he wants to know my side of the story...my daughter as well. Sometimes, I wonder if I should go back and print up all my posts...and keep it......or not.......
FIB
It feels to me that straying spouses and their lovers are emotional terrorists who stap bombs to themselves and hide behind the kids.
Instead of doing the old fashioned string em up posse style, I would like to do a little water boarding followed by sending them to Cuba to learn the Cha Cha.
FIB,
First of all -- I think your are decent, strong man. I remember our phone conversation so long ago. The last thing you said to me was, "Strength and Honor". Let's get together in the city sometime.
I understand and support your decision to file. In my spiritual/religious world-view, you have grounds.
We'll see if I have the strength to say enough is enough.
Let me reply...
-is marriage a dated institution?
Absolutely f*cking NOT!!! It's the only safe place to make our vulnerabilties known, to express our sexuality and to model to children what authentic manhood and womanhood look like. You know this FIB, deep in your bones. Loayalty, sacrifice, love, passion -- it's all there. You want it. You want a woman you can pour your strength into. When marriage works it's like a rock polisher, it smooths out both spouses' ugly sides.
-are their REAL physiologically changes that occur that DO make monogamy difficult?
Do you mean can people get so sick in the head (Bi-Polar, MLC, Narcissism, Sociopathic disorders) that make a person untrustworthy and incapable of monagamy? You betcha!!! But as someone once told me, a narcissist can't have real relationships with anyone at all.
Yes, some people cheat because of disorders, some because they have no moral compass, others, because society tells them it's OK. Who knows for sure.
The question, FIB, is what do YOU believe about the sanctity of marriage and the acceptability of infidelity?
If you are clear, then be clear.
You are also getting a predominantly Christian sub-text regarding what provides clear grounds for divorce here on the DB board. In the Jewish tradition, lack of harmony in the home is sufficient grounds. I haven't really thought much about the Jewish approach to this, which intrigues me.
--Theoden
Yeah, there are many times when I want to thrash OM or at least cause some turmoil. The thing is what stops me is two things:
1) The law protects him. Like FIB I've been there, got a restraining order against me years ago because "She was afraid". Not that I DID anything. She was just 'afraid'.
2) In almost every instance where OM is a 'relationship' and someone has confronted them all that happens is it makes them stronger in their justification.
I do wish this was the 'old days'. I think if it was a lot different set of morals would be instilled in our WAS's and they would take family and us as serious responsibilities.
But this is now. And in the now the best we can do is get OUR house in order and fix the 50% that was our dysfunctions in the marriage so we can live better lives.
And that's what I'm doing. She can have her life. She's made it by choice so I wish her luck.
Frank, you are dead on in your assessment that confronting the OM would push your wife closer to him.
Another wise choice on your part.
Frank, you are dead on in your assessment that confronting the OM would push your wife closer to him.
Another wise choice on your part.
Yeah, I know. It doesn't matter anyway. I give up on her, there's nothing I can do.
The thing that hurts the most is the acceptance by HER friends that even though she is still married, this relationship is ok and it's also ok to hang out with D13 and play family type games - something we should be doing as a family.
I don't know why I even care if she ever comes back. She's happy in her present life. I'm sorry she's going to have a financial meltdown in the near future but I also hope it hurts her a lot.
I'm going as dark as I can given the current situation. I don't want to hate her but I'm getting close.