Hi everyone,
I've been reading on this forum for several months now and recent developments have prompted me to start a thread myself. Brief background: married for almost 15 years, 1 child (special needs). A few years ago my h stated that he wasn't sure whether he wanted to continue to remain in our marriage. We went through mc and he soon decided that he did want to stay. We improved our communication and had a few relatively good years. Then my h went abroad for a year for work and about 3 months in I found out he had lied about something pretty big. He made little to no effort to apologize or repair and basically said our relationship was too broken now and there was nothing left. I asked him if he was willing to not make any big decisions while abroad, but he didn't really respond to that. Ever since then I have stopped contacting him and he has been the one that reaches out (though it's minimal). When he reaches out, he's pleasant.
Yesterday I found out that he retained a divorce lawyer a month ago. I let him know that I found out and that, though I want to remain married, I would not stand in his way. I added that I understand he must be fed up. He responded by saying that we can talk about it tonight.
I wonder how to approach our talk tonight (if it happens) and would love some advice. There is also a good change that he'll cancel, reschedule, or just dissapear (This has been a pattern these past few months). What do I do then?
I welcome any and all support and advice I can get, this is so incredibly difficult.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
WOS,
Sorry you're in this situation. I'm not a seasoned veteran so hopefully others will chime in but the general consensus here is avoid relationship talks and pressure. If he broaches the subject on his own mostly just listen and validate his feelings and try not to get emotional and argue (easier said then done).
How old are you, your husband, and your child?
If he's already engaged a divorce lawyer, I'd consult one of your own ASAP, if only to know your rights and how things will likely play out IF it goes down that path. You don't go into detail regarding the special needs , but assume that may be a factor in custody.
Are you doing anything for yourself? Working out, new wardrobe, activities/hobbies, meeting people?
WOS - How did tonight go?
BL42, thank you for your initial reply and for checking up on me!!
The conversation was quite a surprise. H confirmed that he had retained a lawyer but said he had left it at that. According to him, he had done so to be prepared, not to file (partially because he thought I was going to file). He also said he would never file without giving me a heads up first.
Obviously, we are not in a good place, but I felt some relief that, at least, I likely won't be served with papers any time soon. I still have my own consultation appointment with a lawyer scheduled for tomorrow and I think I might go ahead with it. I have a lot to think about.
I am trying to do more for myself, but it's proving to be difficult. Prior to my h's departure, we relocated to an area where I have no family or friends. I work full-time (love my job!) and our son requires quite a bit of support, which leaves little time for me. Having said that, he has a great nanny so I'm trying to get out more while she watches him. I'm also attempting to meet people virtually (for now). I've 'planted little seeds' in different places, which will hopefully lead to meeting new people and engaging in new activities. Overall, however, we're quite isolated :-(, something I'm working on.
WOS,
BL42, thank you for your initial reply and for checking up on me!!
You're welcome. There are a lot of great people on this board who will help. We all understand to a certain extent what you're going through. Keep posting regularly and others will chime in.
According to him, he had done so to be prepared, not to file (partially because he thought I was going to file). He also said he would never file without giving me a heads up first.
Maybe. But you can't necessarily trust what he says at this point.
I still have my own consultation appointment with a lawyer scheduled for tomorrow and I think I might go ahead with it. I have a lot to think about.
Definitely go ahead with it. It's vital you understand you're situation and rights from a legal perspective, especially if your H already retained someone. Make sure you're protecting yourself going forward. Doesn't mean you have to act on anything, but at least understand where you stand. Knowledge = power.
I am trying to do more for myself, but it's proving to be difficult. Prior to my h's departure, we relocated to an area where I have no family or friends. I work full-time (love my job!) and our son requires quite a bit of support, which leaves little time for me. Having said that, he has a great nanny so I'm trying to get out more while she watches him. I'm also attempting to meet people virtually (for now). I've 'planted little seeds' in different places, which will hopefully lead to meeting new people and engaging in new activities. Overall, however, we're quite isolated :-(, something I'm working on.
I'm sure it's challenging living away from family, working full-time, and caring for a special needs child. Remember to make time for self-care too. Good you're trying to get out and planting seeds on meeting people.
Hi WOS,
I'm sorry you're here, especially during the holiday season.
The conversation was quite a surprise. H confirmed that he had retained a lawyer but said he had left it at that. According to him, he had done so to be prepared, not to file
So, he doesn't currently plan to file and you may have time.
He also said he would never file without giving me a heads up first.
WAS frequently change their minds and yours lied about something "pretty big" (I'm curious and expecting a dating profile, dating, or affair--but won't pry). Thus, I assign little truth value to his promise not to file without telling you. Most WAS do drag their feet when it comes to filing so you probably do have some time to work this through before he acts.
Obviously, we are not in a good place, but I felt some relief that, at least, I likely won't be served with papers any time soon. I still have my own consultation appointment with a lawyer scheduled for tomorrow and I think I might go ahead with it.
Don't rule out pulling the trigger on filing yourself. The filing does not end a relationship, and in many states, it grants you certain legal and financial protections if you're worried about custody, support, shared accounts and assets, etc.
I'm also attempting to meet people virtually (for now). I've 'planted little seeds' in different places, which will hopefully lead to meeting new people and engaging in new activities. Overall, however, we're quite isolated :-(, something I'm working on.
Props for being the one to bring this up and working on making friends and building a wider network of acquaintances and support when you're losing a pillar in your life. This is a truly strong move!
Hi Wos,
sorry you're here. I hope you use this experience to heal, learn, and grow.
I wouldn't worry about his lawyer. Disclaimer: I worried about these kinds of things in my sitch lol. It doesn't mean anything. I'm sure, just like me, you are trying to understand what he is thinking. You won't. He'll lie. And if he tells the truth, you'll wonder if it's true or not. So stop. Put your mind (and body and spirit) to something productive.
Have you done of all the reading in Cadet's welcome post? There really is a wealth of information there.
Thank you all, I read through everything in Cadet's welcome post, and it's been beneficial.
Ovrrnbw, you're right. I keep trying to understand what he is thinking, but I don't know what is true and what isn't anymore. Can that trust ever come back?
CWarrior, interesting perspective: not ruling out filing myself. This doesn't feel like a M I want to be in anymore. I want what we had back, or something better, but not this. I suppose that if things ultimately do not change, I may want to consider filing myself. I read up on boundaries, and two for me are that I need a partner who is 1) truthful and 2) continues communicating with me, even when there are difficulties.
BL42, I'm still meeting with the lawyer on Monday for a consultation. I feel very sad about this, but I have to remember that I did not cause any of it (though I'll admit I did contribute).
I'm just really happy the holidays are over. I did not accept any invites because none of them felt like safe places where I could bring my sad self and my son (who doesn't quite conform to holiday etiquette). I did invite good friends to our house, but one of them caught Covid. I wasn't even sad about that, because it meant I didn't have to prepare anything.
But now it's 2022, and I know I have to come out of hiding. We have (social) plans for tomorrow, and then I go back to work on Monday. My hope for 2022 is to gain more connections with others and more clarity.
Happy new year, everyone!
Hi BL42, thank you for checking in. I wrote an elaborate post two days ago, addressing everyone who replied to me, but I haven't seen it here. Perhaps, I forgot to press 'post reply,' or it's still needing to be approved.
I'm meeting with the lawyer today, which feels very very strange. The communication between my h and I is extremely limited. I last talked to him when I asked him about the lawyer he retained. He has since sent me a few one sentence messages. The last message pertained to some of the difficulties he's facing. This is undoubtedly true, however, my previous automatic response would have been to offer instant comfort and/or solutions. This time, I did not reply (it wasn't a question). My therapist told me I am always out to 'rescue/help' people, but don't ask for help myself. Though I have a 'helping' profession, I'm trying to change this in my personal life.
I feel a lot of resentment towards my h, partially because our son is really struggling and I'm left to handle this by myself. I am shocked as to how little my h inquires about him.
On a good note, I am happy to go back to work. I love my work and currently, it's where I socialize. I am also going to an event this week, the presenters of a podcast I like to listen to are in town. I'm going by myself, which is new to me, but I'm excited to go nonetheless.
Happy new year!
Keep posting- I am trying to get you off moderation but the holidays are not helping
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you Cadet! Here's another post from me ;-).
I met with the lawyer for a two hour consultation, so I've learned a lot. Though it's good to be informed, it did become clear to me that divorce is "not an easy way out" and nobody really benefits from it. I needed a few hours to process everything and did not sleep well.
I have the DR book, which I'll keep reviewing. My h has been reaching out to me a little bit more, but since none of his messages contained questions I did not reply. Today however, he asked a question :-). The lawyer commented that my h seemed really checked out, which of course I know, but was though to hear nonetheless.
One thing I'm struggling with is how to handle the communication about our son. He is not doing well, so do I let h know (which today I did) or, since my h is not really asking about our son, do I not say anything until he asks. These things used to be so easy and now I don't know what's best anymore :-(.
Hi WOS,
Sorry you find yourself here.
I'm curious about the big lie your husband told you. Was he involved with another woman? Do you suspect he's having an affair now?
I'm worried that if I share what the lie was about, I'll be very recognizable ;-), so I'm reluctant to do so. I can say it didn't involve another woman. Nevertheless, I would not be surprised if there is one. At least it would explain some of what is happening. I have tried to find evidence of an affair but haven't found anything so far.
Regarding your question about talking to your H about your son, I see nothing wrong with keeping him in the loop as long as you aren't using it as a means to guilt or manipulate your H for his actions.
For instance, I would not recommend "Son is struggling because you decided to leave the marriage".
A better message would be "Son seems to be really struggling with anxiety and depression and I'm worried about him".
WOS, I saw you had posted your story over the holidays, and just felt you were already good advice from the board. Keep up the good work so far. Know that many of us know what you are going through and can empathize and relate. When my sitch hit on my BD right before Christmas 4 years ago it was the worst holiday season of my life.
Remember to take care of yourself. Eat healthy, get some exercise, do what you have to in order to sleep (melatonin, benadryl, etc). Self care is usually the first thing to fall off when we are going through stressful time and anxiety is high. If you aren't in IC I STRONGLY encourage it.
Can you tell us something about the big lie, if not the lie itself? Without details? "He spent a large sum of money without telling me." "Or spent the weekend with a exGF." You can give just the gist without the details. Big lies are told by people all the time so if you keep it generic then there is a very small likelihood anyone could connect the dots. BUT only share what you are comfortable with, so if that is nothing about the lie then that is okay too!
Hang in there, it does get better. When we are going through the pain of our sitch it can feel hopeless. Please read the stickies at the top of the forum, the "You will not die" one in particular. It is all going to be ok again one day regardless of the outcome.
I informed him (just the facts), but he didn't respond to any of it. He did respond to other, happier, messages. People around me have commented on how uninvolved my h is with my son currently and this really got to me. Why is this? I couldn't stop obsessing over it and caved. I asked my h if he has time to chat today because I'd love for my son to see his dad more often. After having done that, I realized that, sadly, that it's really not within my control.
I feel the need to put some boundaries in place for my own sanity. I find this intermittent (and limited) superficial communication from my h very stressful. There are dozens of elephants in the room, on being our son, that are not being discussed. My h is an extreme avoider of confrontation. Within his family, people can go for months without talking to each other and then one day they simply start talking again (without having resolved anything). Not talking and avoiding, it feels very comfortable to him. I know I can't control what he does, but what can I do here to protect myself at least?
it did become clear to me that divorce is "not an easy way out" and nobody really benefits from it.
Well, it's rare someone feels like they "won" financially. Often our notions of a fair division of assets and fair support are at odds at least somewhat with the legal definitions. But, there would be no divorces if everyone lost. Many on these forums ultimately filed and completed the divorce. It allows you to cut that tie with a partner who's not working--perhaps untrustworthy, unfaithful, abusive, or already in a new relationship. It makes us freer to pursue our happy solo or with another.
I love Thornton's advice about communication involving your son. He's spot on--describe your son's feelings/behaviors at your home. Share anything your son or a medical professional or his caregiver(s) told you that may be helpful and not violate trust. Resist the urge to add your own blaming or shaming (manipulation). Resist the urge to tell him what he should do about it (control).
WOS, I suspect you replies once or more already. The initial moderation can be frustrating. I suspect you'll be off, soon! Hang in there. Looking forward to seeing what you wrote.
WOS, I suspect you replies once or more already. The initial moderation can be frustrating. I suspect you'll be off, soon! Hang in there. Looking forward to seeing what you wrote.
Lets hope your right.
There are no posts waiting at this point though
WOS,
I met with the lawyer for a two hour consultation, so I've learned a lot. Though it's good to be informed, it did become clear to me that divorce is "not an easy way out" and nobody really benefits from it. I needed a few hours to process everything and did not sleep well.
How do you feel now about the lawyer consultation after taking time to process? Do you now understand where you stand in terms of custody, assets, child and spousal support?
Nevertheless, I would not be surprised if there is one. At least it would explain some of what is happening. I have tried to find evidence of an affair but haven't found anything so far.
Would an affair be a deal breaker for you? Others would agree there is at least an EA if not PA in the vast majority of situations here...even those in which the poster initially swears up and down it's not possible. That you wouldn't be surprised is interesting. Why is that?
Ovrrnbw, you're right. I keep trying to understand what he is thinking, but I don't know what is true and what isn't anymore. Can that trust ever come back?
Yes but you are a long ways off from that so, IMHO, don't even worry about it.
Sorry, I'm not sure how to appropriately quote, so I hope this is not too confusing.
I'm not sure how I feel about the meeting with the lawyer. It was so sad to think about all of the consequences of divorce. A lot would also depend on different factors still. My h and I have never talked about it so I have no idea what he wants (custody for instance).
I wouldn't be suprised if there is an affair because it seemed to be the case for a lot of forum members. It would also explain why he's been so checked out lately. Also, he has lied to me several times already. At this point I don't really know what he wants, or what he is up to. I don't know if it would be a deal breaker for me, it might tbh because I don't think I can handle any more new big lies. On the other hand, I keep moving my boundaries continiously, so who knows. The latter is mainly because of my son.
WOS,
It is so hard to believe that someone we love can lie to us over and over. Sometimes we find ourselves in denial or so hopeful that we are stuck in our relationship. Stagnant in our life - sabotaging our own happiness.
One of the best pieces of advice I was given was this. "When someone shows you their cards... believe them". I'm encouraging you to do so. He will most likely continue to lie so you need to protect yourself.. financially, emotionally. Dig deep WOS - take off your rose-colored glasses. See your spouse for who he is, and has been, and unless something drastically changes - who he will be.
You deserve respect. You deserve not just the apologies but the sincere intent to repair what was broken. These are not huge requests but the basic human needs for love and intimacy.
I know you said you move your boundaries for your son... but what are you teaching him by doing so? What is the point of showing grace and forgiveness... if we don't also show children accountability and the natural consequences of our actions.
You will get alot of support here. Our priority is your well being. So lets start by talking about what GAL activities you call do and what does taking care of you look like?
((WOS))
It is so hard to believe that someone we love can lie to us over and over. Sometimes we find ourselves in denial or so hopeful that we are stuck in our relationship. Stagnant in our life - sabotaging our own happiness.
The first step in the grief process is denial. It is best to move through this one as quick as possible. Although it will be done at your own pace.
One of the best pieces of advice I was given was this. "When someone shows you their cards... believe them". I'm encouraging you to do so. He will most likely continue to lie so you need to protect yourself.. financially, emotionally. Dig deep WOS - take off your rose-colored glasses. See your spouse for who he is, and has been, and unless something drastically changes - who he will be.
Yep. The best thing a LBS can do is accept this is the person they are now and probably will be for a really long time.
You deserve respect. You deserve not just the apologies but the sincere intent to repair what was broken. These are not huge requests but the basic human needs for love and intimacy.
This a great stuff. You absolutely can not have a LASTING reconciliation until this happens.
I know you said you move your boundaries for your son... but what are you teaching him by doing so? What is the point of showing grace and forgiveness... if we don't also show children accountability and the natural consequences of our actions.
Again she nailed it! Forgiveness may come later. Your son will always respect the fact that you stood up for yourself. He may not understand now but he will in the future.
You will get alot of support here. Our priority is your well being. So lets start by talking about what GAL activities you call do and what does taking care of you look like?
Yep.
Sorry, I'm not sure how to appropriately quote, so I hope this is not too confusing.
Here is a useful tip on using the forum
How to quoteSimplest method to quote is to use the quote button at the bottom.
Also you can highlight what you want to quote and hit the quote button.
Next method is to copy what you want to quote and use the third button from the right in REPLY mode(full editor mode),
insert text between brackets.
Last and hardest method is to type
I have left out the trailing bracket so you can see what to type.
[quote=username]How to quote[/quote
Use the PREVIEW POST button before you hit submit so you can see what your post will look like.
WOS,
It is so hard to believe that someone we love can lie to us over and over. Sometimes we find ourselves in denial or so hopeful that we are stuck in our relationship. Stagnant in our life - sabotaging our own happiness.
One of the best pieces of advice I was given was this. "When someone shows you their cards... believe them". I'm encouraging you to do so. He will most likely continue to lie so you need to protect yourself.. financially, emotionally. Dig deep WOS - take off your rose-colored glasses. See your spouse for who he is, and has been, and unless something drastically changes - who he will be.
You deserve respect. You deserve not just the apologies but the sincere intent to repair what was broken. These are not huge requests but the basic human needs for love and intimacy.
I know you said you move your boundaries for your son... but what are you teaching him by doing so? What is the point of showing grace and forgiveness... if we don't also show children accountability and the natural consequences of our actions.
You will get alot of support here. Our priority is your well being. So lets start by talking about what GAL activities you call do and what does taking care of you look like?
((WOS))
This is such a kind post, I apologize for the late reply. My son has really not been doing well and my marriage was not a priority for me. I'd rather have a different type of distraction though :-(.
With regards to GAL, I really enjoy my work. I'm lucky that I work in a field that I love. I also went to a show by myself last week and enjoyed that! Then, I'm in IC and attend weekly meditation and parent support groups. And there's coffee and walks, I like both.
Speaking of IC, my IC recommended that I be vulnerable with my h and attempt to get our communication going again. When talking to my h, I couldn't do it, didn't feel right. I have noticed slightly more effort from h.
Reflecting on your post Valeska19, I feel like I escaped relationship stagnation because my h and I have already been apart for so long (due to the distance). It's like this is a wake up call because his work assignment changed everything. Now we both get to chose if, when, and how to proceed.
Though I have heard an apology, I have not heard a sincere intent to repair. Initially, I wondered why you all cautioned me that this process would be long (especially since I saw some signs of improvement). Valeska19, your post made me realize that we are far removed from a sincere intent to change things for the better, so I think I now understand what you all mean. Hopefully, I can be content with baby steps for the time being. I have changed my own approach and communication (which, tbh, wasn't pretty either) and my h seems to appreciate this.
I am glad you are finally off moderation.
Keep posting and the people here will give you great advice.
Hi everyone,
Have any of you seen the movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, and Before Midnight? I just watched the last movie of this installment and thought about this forum.
I watched Before Sunrise when I was in my early twenties, just like the characters in the movie. Quick description of the plot: two people in their early twenties meet on a train and decide to get off the train together to spent a day on Vienna. The theme is, I think, the romantic ideas we have about love at that age.
I watched the second movie, Before Sunset, when I was approaching thirty, had had a long term failed relationship and had just met my h. In this movie the characters meet again (after not having seen each other for many years) and share some of the disillusionment in love (and life) they have encountered since. Both them, and I, lost some of our naivite.
Just now, in my early forties, I watched the third movie, Before Sunrise. The two characters are married (to each other) and young parents. They are tired, bicker, and carry some resentment towards each other, which resurfaces when they fight. I love the dialogue in all three movies and, while watching Before Midnight, it was like watching my h and I fight. It seemed like, no matter what the issues are in a m, conflicts between couples sound very similar. At some point, when there is no resolution, one of the characters tells the other "I don't love you anymore."
I hope they make a fourth!
WOS,
I'm not familiar w/those movies. Hope you're doing alright. Anything you need advice on?
It seemed like, no matter what the issues are in a m, conflicts between couples sound very similar. At some point, when there is no resolution, one of the characters tells the other "I don't love you anymore."
Relationships generally fall apart for one of three reasons: (1) One partner becomes emotionally unstable for a variety of reasons, which may include mental illness, addiction, issues related to a bad childhood, etc. (2) One partner has a momentary lapse of judgement and cheats and the other partner can't forgive them, or (3) the relationship slowly degrades over time for both people.
In the first case, sometimes people have latent issues and they either temporarily get better (an addict stops using for a while, a person with a mood disorder pursues treatment, etc), or the partner knows the issues are there and chooses to ignore them initially, fooling themselves or falsely believing that things will magically get better in the future.
This "fooling yourself" phenomenon is a lot of what goes on -- you fall in love with who you want the person to be versus who they really are. Over time, your veneer gets stripped away, you see them for who they really are and it’s no longer acceptable.
The tragic situation is when someone who was emotionally healthy when you met and dated them has a breakdown after you're married and just becomes unlivable due to their issues. That's rare but it certainly does happen, people just "go crazy" sometimes.
The third scenario is really what the quote above is about. Chances are if the husband is ignoring the wife's complaints, it’s because he's not very motivated to respond to them. The reason is generally that he's not having his needs met either, and his complaints are likely also being ignored.
That's the vicious cycle that tends to land people here -- your needs aren't being met, so you're less motivated to provide your husband with what he needs. His needs aren't being met, so he's not motivated to give you what you need, and that spinning wheel eventually drives you apart until one person (or both people) decides they want out.
Sometimes the scenarios are combined, you could have all three things going on.
My point is, unless you "went crazy" after you married H, this is in no way your fault for not responding to his complaints. He is equally if not more culpable than you are in that regard. Don't let him off the hook for that, and don't shoulder the blame.
It's good to be aware of these dynamics so that you can identify and avoid them in the future, but you're not guilty.
Hi everyone,
Have any of you seen the movies Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, and Before Midnight? I just watched the last movie of this installment and thought about this forum.
I watched Before Sunrise when I was in my early twenties, just like the characters in the movie. Quick description of the plot: two people in their early twenties meet on a train and decide to get off the train together to spent a day on Vienna. The theme is, I think, the romantic ideas we have about love at that age.
I watched the second movie, Before Sunset, when I was approaching thirty, had had a long term failed relationship and had just met my h. In this movie the characters meet again (after not having seen each other for many years) and share some of the disillusionment in love (and life) they have encountered since. Both them, and I, lost some of our naivite.
Just now, in my early forties, I watched the third movie, Before Sunrise. The two characters are married (to each other) and young parents. They are tired, bicker, and carry some resentment towards each other, which resurfaces when they fight. I love the dialogue in all three movies and, while watching Before Midnight, it was like watching my h and I fight. It seemed like, no matter what the issues are in a m, conflicts between couples sound very similar. At some point, when there is no resolution, one of the characters tells the other "I don't love you anymore."
I hope they make a fourth!
I haven't seen any of those. Though I do not think you are wrong about conflicts between couples. I think many marital problems are rooted in similar issues. But mainly, I think people in love tend to overlook a lot of red flags in the other person. One of my favorite quotes is that small problems become huge problems after you are married. It is so true. Even things you thought were "cute" when you were dating can become grating. My wife has a very distinctive sneeze. When we were dating I thought it was cute. After we were married, and resentments had built up, and we were no longer connected, and the marriage was in disarray, her sneeze was like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Red flags when dating are one of those things that is difficult to talk to young couples about. It is one of those things that people have to go through, unfortunately, and cannot seem to learn from other's experiences.
I also think lots of people get being IN love confused with loving someone. I know my favorite bald TV psychologist from Texas points this out to people all the time. That butterflies in your stomach, over the moon feeling is fleeting. Loving someone and all of their warts and faults is a completely different thing. So many people are addicted to the limerance, "in love" feeling, which is why as soon as a marriage settles into the routine, they are on the prowl for the next person to give them the butterflies again.
Anyway, I am a bit off topic. But I agree with you, many of the issues in marriage have the same underlying conditions causing it. But there are plenty of exceptions and some people are flawed to the point of never going to be able to be a successful half of a marriage, at least not without a lot of self-reflection, therapy, and help.
WOS,
I'm not familiar w/those movies. Hope you're doing alright. Anything you need advice on?
Actually, I do ;-). My IC advised me to share with my h what I need from him. This seems counter intuitive to everything I've read on this forum, however, is this a good idea? There is so much we need to discuss (Going to read the DR chapter on 'asking for what you need' on this).
SteveLW & LH19, thank you for your elaborate discussions of love, marriage, and relationships. My h and I met when neither one of us was a fully integrated, healthy person and we both probably presented ourselves as more stable than we were. I know I ignored red flags, one being that he was only able to to share and be vulnerable with me after he had had a few drinks. I myself, loved how much he seemed to love me (my self esteem was very low) and felt secure.
We have both grown a lot though over the years (or so I thought). There was a time, after MC, that we seemed to have made a huge leap in our communication and relationship. Add some distance however, and everything fell apart like a house of cards.
Since then he has been reaching out more, showing more interest, and making more of an effort. He even said that he feels bad that I have to do everything on my own (due to his work abroad). Prior to this, he seemed to have zero sympathy for me. I know these are scraps and nothing to get too excited about, but progress starts with mini steps (according to the DR book).
I've watched Before Sunset, not the other two yet. It was unique--consistently almost entirely of witty dialogue and little action--but managed to stay interesting.
My IC advised me to share with my h what I need from him.
I'd ask more about what your needs are and why your IC suggests sharing them?
If somebody's on-the-fence or done with a relationship, you're usually not going to lure them in with more relationship obligations. It tends to make more sense to ask such things of them if and when you've both decided to commit to the relationship again. Now, if we're talking about things they're responsible for whether or not you two are getting back together--like support payments--that's entirely different. I look forward to hearing more about your specifics, WOS.
Hey WOS,
Traveler provided some excellent advice, I would hold off on having that convo until much later in the game when it's evident your H is able and willing to make an effort to repair the relationship.
Anything convo related to logistics, children, finances etc is fine. But I strongly suggest you do not initiate any kind of relationship convo/obligations at this point.
I always liked the squirrel analogy in this board. If you want to have a squirrel eat out of your hand (ie attract H back), you allow it the freedom to come and go without spooking it. If the squirrel finally gets enough courage to eat out of your hand and you go to pet it (ie have a relationship convo), it will quickly bolt back up the tree and you will have to earn it's trust all over again. Let your H come back to you without spooking him.
You will absolutely know when he is ready to have a relationship convo because he will actually bring it up.
Thank you both for your advice, that makes sense to me. When I was on the phone with my h, and was going to share my needs with him, I just couldn't.
To provide more detail, I was talking to my ic about how I felt like my mood and well-being were contingent upon my communication with my h as well as how my son is doing (not in this order). With regards to my h, she suggested that I share with my h that it makes me happy when we talk and share parts of our lives with each other (he is abroad) and that I enjoy his moral support as I struggle with helping our son. She also suggested we set a time once a week to talk about the more serious stuff.
It is possible that, in my h's opinion, we are in a functioning relationship again. I know him and his family and this is how they function. There is a fight, which escalates (for instance divorce is mentioned), followed by silence and avoiding each other until one person approaches the other again. When interactions are resumed, the conflict is over. All of this takes place without ever talking about the problem and resolving it. I worry that this is what's happened with us.
WOS,
Could you explain your H's work situation? How long has he been / will he be abroad? Has this bene a regular thing, or a one-off? Why did you relocate away from family and friends right before his work travel? Any chance you could move back to have more support with your son and for yourself?
Doesn't sound like H's family modeled a healthy conflict resolution. Wonder if that's happened a lot between the two of you over the last 15+ years?
WOS,
Could you explain your H's work situation? How long has he been / will he be abroad? Has this bene a regular thing, or a one-off? Why did you relocate away from family and friends right before his work travel? Any chance you could move back to have more support with your son and for yourself?
Doesn't sound like H's family modeled a healthy conflict resolution. Wonder if that's happened a lot between the two of you over the last 15+ years?
I'm still nervous about sharing too much information, but here goes: He is in the military and abroad for a year. This is a one-off for him. The military is also the reason why we have moved a lot these last few years (and have no real support network). My family lives in another country. Legally, I cannot move back without permission from my h. In addition, my son receives the services he needs where we are now, which also makes me very reluctant to leave.
Overall, it feels like I have little control over my own life and little room to make changes.
BL42, overall, over the years, his method of conflict resolution (not saying anything) has indeed caused us great difficulties, mainly lots of underlying resentment. After mc, however, things were better. The fact that he's currently not communicating could be a) him resorting to old habits or b) having no interest in repairing things. His actions lately make me think it's the first.
I think that when I said my intention was to remain in the marriage, he assumed things were "fixed." I feel the need to elaborate by adding that my 'intent to remain in the marriage doesn't mean things are 'fixed.' For me, it means that I am willing to work towards trust and connection again.
WOS,
Between the legal aspects and your son's medical services, sounds like a move isn't in the cards - just thought getting back closer to family and friends might be beneficial for you.
Sounds like the two of you need to work on conflict resolution. IF your H wants to recommit to the marriage and you decide to do MC, that might be a good starting point.