Midlife wife crisis 16

[Wolfman]

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2906632&page=11

Here is the previous link.

[Wolfman]

Started a new link. I might have to change the name because this will be more about my GF now than my ex. So we started to see a therapist. The last 2 weeks have been good between us. But I am so confused. This is where I need all of you. Oh and May keep posting here. I really don’t get offended. So, even though we are trying to work on the relationship there are some things that bother me. We have been living together for 9 months now. And during that time she did all the cooking (she lives to cook) and all the cleaning (very meticulous) in the home. I help with cooking on occasion and cleaning. I am the one working while she looks for a job. But ever since I broke up with her (that was for 3 days) we got back together and she said she should be acting more like a GF than a wife. And she stopped most of the cooking and cleaning. I know I messed up with breaking up with her while she is pregnant, so I have been trying real hard to show her love and affection. She told me I made her very insecure and she is nervous I could do that to her again. And she brings up that she is very embarrassed being pregnant and not married. So she is pushing me I to marriage because of the baby. I told her I think we should be working on the relationship to make sure we have a solid foundation before we take that next step. She tells me the longer we are not married and she is pregnant her resentment grows for me. I am so confused, I do love this woman and now excited about having a child, but I am so scared of going through another divorce. I am just scared in general, I never want to go through that again. She has also become less affectionate towards me. I told her that, that bothers me, that she is holding it back almost like a punishment. She said what is she supposed to do, that she is not happy about being pregnant and not married. I said I am trying to show her everyday how much I love her and care, and she just stares that’s not enough anymore, she needs a “commitment”. I told her we live together and are committed, and if things get better we will get married. But she has hinted she doesn’t want to wait, and that she might leave. To me, how does that make sense? She is embarrassed about being pregnant and not married but would rather break up and be alone and have a baby than be with the father. What to do? So confused. I hope this all makes sense.

[SteveLW]

Oh boy. The worst thing you could do is marry her. It is almost a guarantee of a future 2nd D. Look at 2nd marriage D statistics, and look at divorce statistics for couples that married after a pregnancy. They ain't good.

[MrBrside]

She tells me the longer we are not married and she is pregnant her resentment grows for me.

I said I am trying to show her everyday how much I love her and care, and she just stares that’s not enough anymore, she needs a “commitment”. I told her we live together and are committed, and if things get better we will get married. But she has hinted she doesn’t want to wait, and that she might leave.

First she sets fire to documents..

Then starts with the emotional blackmail..

WM, your emotions are running wild - The above is NOT healthy - Its bunny boiler type stuff -

Do you think these actions will go away once you are married ? WTF

BIG HUGE MASSIVE red flags flying here - Woooo - Look at me... Big red flag

Seriously, not a healthy woman - YOU were broken after the ex wife - ... Broken people attract Broken people.. Look at the consequences.. Only you can fix this mess - and its not by getting married to another broken person..That becomes toxic..

Have you started to work on your relationship with your other children ?

[Ready2Change]

.... this will be more about my GF now than my ex. So we started to see a therapist.

Glad to hear.

... But I am so confused. This is where I need all of you....I told her I think we should be working on the relationship to make sure we have a solid foundation before we take that next step....What to do? So confused. I hope this all makes sense.

It makes sense to me. She will test you. Pass the test.

Do you have your list of non-negotiables?

[sandi2]

Isn't your GF 20 yrs younger than you? It's pretty obvious in her actions and what she says.

Look, she had no qualms about dating you before you were D from your W. She had no qualms about sleeping with you, or moving in with you. Right? So, when she says she is embarrassed to be pregnant and single........don't believe it. She is a girl looking for a secured future with a guy who has a good income. I don't think she's going to be in any hurry to get a job, b/c she'll expect you to take care of her.

Yes, she is certainly punishing you by not cooking and keeping the house (if she's physically able). I think it will get worse. She's playing games, to apply enough pressure to get you to the alter. If you marry her, your life will radically change for the worse, and I'm not talking about the baby. I'm talking about what kind of woman she will become. You will see a side of her you didn't know was there. The persona you saw when you first moved in together, is not the real person. Don't be one of these men who gets stuck with a woman, thinking one day maybe she'll be like the girl before the M. Her behavior toward you has been changing ever since she announced the pregnancy. You better take it as a serious warning, Wolf. Between your XW and GF, and the problems it's going to cause with your daughter having such a young step-mother........your life will never be free of drama.

May I ask which one of you were responsible for birth control when you started sleeping together? I think your answer is important.

[AnotherStander]

And during that time she did all the cooking (she lives to cook) and all the cleaning (very meticulous) in the home. I help with cooking on occasion and cleaning. I am the one working while she looks for a job. But ever since I broke up with her (that was for 3 days) we got back together and she said she should be acting more like a GF than a wife. And she stopped most of the cooking and cleaning.

What kind of bizarre logic is that? She thinks a live-in girlfriend doesn't cook and clean, only a wife does? I'm with MrB, sounds like emotional blackmail. Red flag. And not only that, but she didn't bother talking to you about it first, which is another huge red flag. She just decided to withdraw her love and support of you without warning.

I know I messed up with breaking up with her while she is pregnant, so I have been trying real hard to show her love and affection.

Why? The whole reason you broke up with her is because she was being cold and distant, if you shower her with love and affection you are REWARDING her bad behavior! So now you're trying twice as hard and she's trying half as hard, what does that tell you about her investment in this R?

She told me I made her very insecure and she is nervous I could do that to her again.

Your response should be "I'm willing to work on this R with you, but if you don't try then yes, breaking up is always a possibility." She SHOULD be nervous it could happen again, it should give her incentive to work at keeping you.

And she brings up that she is very embarrassed being pregnant and not married. So she is pushing me I to marriage because of the baby. I told her I think we should be working on the relationship to make sure we have a solid foundation before we take that next step.

You are 100% correct. Don't forget, a few weeks ago you were asking us for advice on how to get her out of the house. Now you want advice on how to keep her there. My advice has not changed, I still think she needs to live somewhere else while the two of you work on things. Living together is NOT WORKING, and I think you would see that if you could take the rose-colored glasses off for a moment.

She tells me the longer we are not married and she is pregnant her resentment grows for me.

She has also become less affectionate towards me.

How many red flags do you need before you see how dysfunctional this R is?

But she has hinted she doesn’t want to wait, and that she might leave.

Best thing that could happen in my opinion. I'd help her pack. Like I said in the last thread, since she's pregnant with your baby (at least as far as you know) then I would suggest supporting her to some extent until she can get established. But talk to a lawyer to make sure you're not setting some kind of support precedent that you may not be able to get out of.

She's not the prize here. YOU are the prize. Start acting like it!

[ovrrnbw]

Hey Wolf!

My advice is to do everything you can for your GF and your baby that's on the way! Congrats by the way.

I can 100% understand her resentment, and her wanting to be married, especially while pregnant. But, if she is that serious, well we all know how babies are made. Her actions don't match her philosophy, but emotions can make hypocrites of us all so it's not like I don't get that either.

It looks like you're getting lots of good advice, so the only other thing I'll say is to just end the whirlwind. Be mentally strong. You've been in the whirlwind for a couple years now. Get out!

[SteveLW]

]I know I messed up with breaking up with her while she is pregnant, so I have been trying real hard to show her love and affection.

Wait....you broke up with her. But you are the one trying to show her love and affection?! That is some crap there.

You did the right thing breaking up with her. There is no law that says you have to be the father of her baby AND remain in a relationship with her.

You are making the same mistakes you made before. And where are you spending time with your kids in all of this? They already didn't like your GF for splitting your attention and now you are hyper-focused on her.

Wolf, look, it is simple. You can continue living your life trying to please every woman you fall in love with. Or you can become the man you should be and the father you should be. This will be my final words on your sitch. If you marry this woman then you don't have a brain in your freaking skull.

Best of luck to you.

[Ready2Change]

I told her we live together and are committed, and if things get better we will get married. But she has hinted she doesn’t want to wait, and that she might leave. To me, how does that make sense?

It doesn't. It is not logic speaking. It is emotions.


How do you respond to this? Not emotionally, you use logic. Example: Coming up with your list of what you require in a relationship. But boundaries in place so that you have clear understanding of how you will behave when they get crossed. This has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you.

[Wolfman]

Wow so much great information. I love that you all are here for me. Thank you. I see everyone is in agreement as far as wha I need to do. I will try and tackle some of your questions and comments.

She tells me the longer we are not married and she is pregnant her resentment grows for me.

I said I am trying to show her everyday how much I love her and care, and she just stares that’s not enough anymore, she needs a “commitment”. I told her we live together and are committed, and if things get better we will get married. But she has hinted she doesn’t want to wait, and that she might leave.

BIG HUGE MASSIVE red flags flying here - Woooo - Look at me... Big red flag

Seriously, not a healthy woman - YOU were broken after the ex wife - ... Broken people attract Broken people.. Look at the consequences.. Only you can fix this mess - and its not by getting married to another broken person..That becomes toxic..

Have you started to work on your relationship with your other children ?

Thank you for letting me know these are red flags. I was broken and I didn’t listen to the advice on here. And jumped into this. I work on my relationship with my children everyday. In reunification therapy with my daughter. I am being the best father for my children.

.... this will be more about my GF now than my ex. So we started to see a therapist.

Glad to hear.

...Do you have your list of non-negotiables?

Not sure what my non-negotiables are right now. But I know her shutting down and saying she is just my girlfriend And not going to do “wife” things, this is something that is not negotiable. She was is the one who wanted to do all of this now she stops to get “even”.

Isn't your GF 20 yrs younger than you? It's pretty obvious in her actions and what she says.

Look, she had no qualms about dating you before you were D from your W. She had no qualms about sleeping with you, or moving in with you. Right? So, when she says she is embarrassed to be pregnant and single........don't believe it. She is a girl looking for a secured future with a guy who has a good income. I don't think she's going to be in any hurry to get a job, b/c she'll expect you to take care of her.

May I ask which one of you were responsible for birth control when you started sleeping together? I think your answer is important.

We are 15 years apart. I agree she had no problem moving in with me. Where was the embarrassment then? Now because she wants to get married, now she is embarrassed? Not buying it. Oh and if I don’t marry her she will break up with me. How is that not embarrassing? Now you are pregnant and single. I don’t understand that logic.
As far as birth control neither of us were in charge. I never used anything. I know, I know risky. I was stupid because I was broken and not thinking clearly.

AS Thank you. You are right about me showering her with love and affection and I get nothing in return. I am tired of giving and giving and what I want doesn’t matter.
This quote: Your response should be "I'm willing to work on this R with you, but if you don't try then yes, breaking up is always a possibility." She SHOULD be nervous it could happen again, it should give her incentive to work at keeping you.
You are so right. I hold the cards, not her. I put these woman ahead of me most of the time. I have to show my worth. Thank you for that.
This quote too: She's not the prize here. YOU are the prize. Start acting like it!
I actually will, thank you for reminding me!!!!

[quote=Wolfman]]I know I messed up with breaking up with her while she is pregnant, so I have been trying real hard to show her love and affection.

Wait....you broke up with her. But you are the one trying to show her love and affection?! That is some crap there.

Wolf, look, it is simple. You can continue living your life trying to please every woman you fall in love with. Or you can become the man you should be and the father you should be. This will be my final words on your sitch. If you marry this woman then you don't have a brain in your freaking skull.

Best of luck to you.

I know, I need to stop being so nice. I have to make myself the prize not her. It is a load of crap. Thank you!!
You said your final words? Are you leaving me? Please don’t, I value your opinion.

This has been difficult but everyone here is giving me so much strength. Thank you. I know what I have to do. I am going to be a man, make her come for me, I am the prize and if not. Then we will coparent. I am ready to be alone if that’s what it’s going to be. Just focus on myself and kids and that’s it. I really messed up, but I have to step up and be responsible. I will keep everyone updated on what happens. Keep the comments coming I really appreciate it.

[may22]

Hi Wolfman,

I have a question about the divorce paper burning incident. Did she actually try to burn the papers? Or did she just threaten it? Not that either are healthy behaviors, but actually trying to burn them is very scary. Threatening with no real intent of going through with it is super unhealthy attention-seeking behavior, but at a different level.

Maybe I'm alone here. I just feel badly for her. I don't condone her behavior at all and I think she sounds very immature. I wouldn't want to marry her either. But she's going to be in your life for the next 18 plus years in some capacity, and I'd just give her a bit more of the benefit of the doubt on some of this. Being young and pregnant and single is scary, and she clearly doesn't have the communication nor relationship skills to deal with any of this very well. That doesn't necessarily make her a gold digger. Maybe she's scared and alone and doesn't want to raise her baby on her own and is using what has worked for her in the past-- threats, bribes, ultimatums. Is there a way you two can work on communicating together in a healthy and open way, regardless of your relationship status? Have you practiced validating and deepening/curious questions with her to figure out what's really going on in her head? She may not even know herself.

Sorry you're going through this, I know it must be incredibly stressful. Glad you are also able to work on your R with your daughter as well. Hang in there.

[Mumin]

Focus on what is right for the child first and foremost, then you.
GF seems very unstable and there is no way you should marry her as things stand. You should write things down if there ever comes a time that you must fight for custody or even feel the need to pursue 100% full custody of this unborn child. What is her mental history and childhood like?

How exactly you should move on is up to you. It is a very special situation and I dont know the details well enough. Consider your values and all you have learned about people in the past few years and make a LOGICAL decision.
What do you need to take care of yourself and ALL of your children in the next 12-18 months?
You certainly dont NEED a GF, but your children all need a caring father AND a mother (given they are both mentally fit of course).

[Wolfman]

Hi Wolfman,

I have a question about the divorce paper burning incident. Did she actually try to burn the papers? Or did she just threaten it? Not that either are healthy behaviors, but actually trying to burn them is very scary. Threatening with no real intent of going through with it is super unhealthy attention-seeking behavior, but at a different level.
.

She had the papers in her hand and was trying to get the bbq lighter to light. Thank god it didn’t light. So, after trying to talk to her to stop and put it down I had to grab her arms and get her to drop them. I really felt like she was going to do it. And to make matters worse she was leaning on the gas stove and with her butt she turned the gas on. So now I was even more afraid with the gas running. I didn’t want to touch her but I had no choice.

Focus on what is right for the child first and foremost, then you. What is her mental history and childhood like?

How exactly you should move on is up to you. It is a very special situation and I dont know the details well enough. Consider your values and all you have learned about people in the past few years and make a LOGICAL decision.

As far as her mental history at one point she suffered from depression from a break up. That was a year before we met. Like me she was messed up from her break up and was on antidepressants. We didn’t talk about that until 6-7 months into dating. Right now we are going to therapy together to work on this, because we have a baby. I am not rushing the marriage thing, especially since I have everything to lose. I will not be forced into something I don’t want. I said it before and I will say it again and I think Sandi said it too, she wasn’t embarrassed to move in with me, but is embarrassed to have a baby and not be married? And if not married by the time the baby is born she will break up with me and be a single mom? Huh? Her logic confuses me.

[MrBrside]

Right now we are going to therapy together to work on this, because we have a baby. I am not rushing the marriage thing, especially since I have everything to lose. I will not be forced into something I don’t want.

Her logic confuses me.

WM, your logic confuses me...

1 minute you dump her and agree with 95% of the posters that this is a run run run situation..

the next day, you are in therapy ?

If you arent confused, i am ?

What is it you want from all this ? Do you know ?

As you change your tune daily - i'm lost ?

[LH19]

I am starting to believe the wolfman is a troll.

[sandi2]

So, your GF is 26 yrs old. She has no job and is freeloading, living with you, and emotionally blackmailing you into marriage. She decides cleaning the house and cooking is a wife's job, and since she doesn't hold that title, she's going to make things more uncomfortable until you marry her. It doesn't bother her that she is not contributing financially, and now she's not helping with chores. She's just going to lay around all day, waiting to have the baby. Lovely young woman you have there! Consider this as a preview of your future with her.

She tells me the longer we are not married and she is pregnant her resentment grows for me.

Wolf, I don't think her resentment will stop, even if you marry her. I see a WW in the making here. It starts with holding deep resentment that she never lets go, then the disrespect comes. The fact that she is punishing you b/c you haven't agreed to immediately marry her........is a sign of more manipulation to come.

As far as birth control neither of us were in charge. I never used anything. I know, I know risky. I was stupid because I was broken and not thinking clearly.

I had a feeling this was the case. Why on earth wouldn't a modern woman who is out there dating, not protect herself from pregnancy, not to mention STD? You say that you were broken and not thinking clearly. Even after the two of you were living together, you didn't stop to consider how fertile a 26 yr old woman is? I may be thinking of a different poster, but it seems I even mentioned how we've seen this happen to other LBH's who date, and the complications it can bring. Anyway, here you are in another pickle. Lean from this, Wolf. Are you ready to start life over with a younger family? I hope you start listening and thinking more clearly, or you are going to find yourself in another M with another wife who doesn't respect you. You are hoping to see the girl you saw when first dating, but she won't show up.

A big part of you feels morally obligated to marry her. Personally, I find it a bit difficult to feel sorry for her, b/c she's old enough to know you can't sleep around without some means of birth control. She was into the free sexual lifestyle, but now she wants to act like a girl in trouble back in the 1950's, and pushing marriage to save face. Today's society doesn't shun single women who are pregnant. The government gives much more free benefits to single mothers, than those who are married. Both of you are responsible for this child, but I don't think marriage is always the answer. Two wrongs don't equal one right. You can support the child, be in his life, just like you are doing with your other kids. You don't have to live with the mother, and you don't have to marry her. I caution you about the commitments you make to her. You are walking on thin ice.

Are the two of you having sex now, or has she cut that off, also? If not, that's next on her list. She won't have sex with you, if you don't agree to her terms. Don't say you haven't been warned. You are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Please stick with us, Wolf. It's concerning when you disappear. Let us know what's going on. ((hugs))

[Wolfman]

Right now we are going to therapy together to work on this, because we have a baby. I am not rushing the marriage thing, especially since I have everything to lose. I will not be forced into something I don’t want.

Her logic confuses me.

WM, your logic confuses me...

1 minute you dump her and agree with 95% of the posters that this is a run run run situation..

the next day, you are in therapy ?

If you arent confused, i am ?

What is it you want from all this ? Do you know ?

As you change your tune daily - i'm lost ?

That’s just it, I am confused. Because I feel obligated now because we are having a child. Honestly, I am nervous how am I going to afford paying another child support. I am very confused, so I am sorry that I probably confuse all of you.

I am starting to believe the wolfman is a troll.

Why would you say that? I have always tried to be honest and at times I get confused on what to do. My brain tells me one thing and my heart tells me another.

[Wolfman]

Sandi,
My GF just got a job. She started yesterday. I know the whole “embarrassment” thing is just to manipulate me into marriage. Yes she is punishing me by not doing her share anymore. I am just getting fed up with that.

“you start listening and thinking more clearly, or you are going to find yourself in another M with another wife who doesn't respect you. You are hoping to see the girl you saw when first dating, but she won't show up.” I know you are right. I am just so disappointed with myself. That I let this happen.

“A big part of you feels morally obligated to marry her.”
I do. I feel like that is what I am suppose to do. Oh and another threat she has told me was if I don’t marry her then why won’t have my last name.

“Are the two of you having sex now, or has she cut that off, also? If not, that's next on her list.“
We don’t have it like we use to. It literally was everyday most twice a day. Now I’m lucky if it’s once a week. She tells me she is not emotionally in the mood. I’m not making her feel “good”.

I try to stick with you guys. There are some days I just get depressed. How did I let this happen? I was so emotional because of the d I wasn’t thinking clearly. That’s why you all told me not to date. I truly get that now. Let this be a lesson to the newbs here. I am also so worried how this will affect my kids? I am so worried my ex will try and brainwash them about the new child.

[unchien]

I am also so worried how this will affect my kids? I am so worried my ex will try and brainwash them about the new child.

I understand you are overwhelmed with everything, but this is an obvious cognitive distortion (mind-reading your ex, assuming the worst) and shouldn't be consuming any of your precious emotional energy.

People have kids in new relationships, it happens.

Focus on the issues at hand.

[AnotherStander]

So, your GF is 26 yrs old. She has no job and is freeloading, living with you, and emotionally blackmailing you into marriage. She decides cleaning the house and cooking is a wife's job, and since she doesn't hold that title, she's going to make things more uncomfortable until you marry her. It doesn't bother her that she is not contributing financially, and now she's not helping with chores. She's just going to lay around all day, waiting to have the baby. Lovely young woman you have there! Consider this as a preview of your future with her.

Wolfie, just wanted to reiterate this. I'm not sure I've stated it as succinctly as Sandi did but I also really get the sense that your GF is manipulating you and may have narcissistic tendencies. I suspect she's gas-lighting you which is probably why you feel so much guilt. It may very well all be part of her plan. I can absolutely guarantee you that if you do marry her, she will do even LESS around the house, not more. There will be LESS sex, not more. What will there be more of? Lies, gaslighting and manipulation.

I could be wrong, and May could be right that she's just young and confused. But I still firmly believe that either way, the best thing right now for you, for her and for your future relationship is to move her out. It's fine to keep going to therapy and seeing her if both of you want that, but you really need to be separate to properly work things out and decide what you want.

[Wolfman]

Just keep adding insult to injury. I have my son today. I noticed the GF was cooking something. So I went to her and said you cooking something g for dinner for yourself or all of us. She replied just for me. She said, “I don’t think that is my job anymore.” I said you use to do it all the time. She said unless things change she doesn’t think it’s her job now. Ridiculous. I am taking my son out to dinner instead.

[Ginger1]

Just keep adding insult to injury. I have my son today. I noticed the GF was cooking something. So I went to her and said you cooking something g for dinner for yourself or all of us. She replied just for me. She said, “I don’t think that is my job anymore.” I said you use to do it all the time. She said unless things change she doesn’t think it’s her job now. Ridiculous. I am taking my son out to dinner instead.

And you think your ex has brainwashed your kids into not liking her? Sounds like she managed to have that happen all on her own.
To cook for herself and not your child? That’s really really awful. I’m glad you are taking him out.

I understand you are having a baby with this woman. And you need to love that baby and support it. But this is toxic and you may lose your other kids completely. It’s certainly not a good spot to be in. You have a lot to think about. I wish you the best

[Wolfman]

Just keep adding insult to injury. I have my son today. I noticed the GF was cooking something. So I went to her and said you cooking something g for dinner for yourself or all of us. She replied just for me. She said, “I don’t think that is my job anymore.” I said you use to do it all the time. She said unless things change she doesn’t think it’s her job now. Ridiculous. I am taking my son out to dinner instead.

And you think your ex has brainwashed your kids into not liking her? Sounds like she managed to have that happen all on her own.
To cook for herself and not your child?

This is al recent. She did all the cooking up until she found out she was pregnant and then said she needed to be pregnant. But before that she cooked my kids favorite foods all the time. I mean my son loves shrimp, she would constantly buy it and make it for him. When my daughter was coming she would make she sure she had her favorite drinks. One day my d said, “I’m in the mood for a milkshake.” At the time we didn’t have any ice cream. So my GF ran out and got ice cream and chocolate syrup for her. This whole pregnancy thing has got her crazy. Is it the hormones? Is is this really who she is coming out now? Forgive me everyone, I know a lot of you are going to jump down my throats but I want a family again. I have always been a family person, even when I was younger. I guess maybe I am just for I g it. I know I did this and there is no one else to blame but it scares me to know I will have 2 baby mamas. I felt like I had a chance to start over with her, but like a lot of you have said, too many red flags!!!

In the last 2 years I have worked on my self a lot. And feel like I have changed a lot. For example, not holding a grudge, being a lot more patient with my children, maybe at times too much. I have really worked on validating a lot. So, I guess I would hope she would too. 😞 But people don’t change over night, it took me a while. And to be completely honest some of her behaviors are definitely immature, I would have done the same things at her age. My parents had a terrible moto, don’t get mad, get even!! I’m rambling. Thank you all for always being here and hitting me with 2x4’s. Let me tell you all when you talk to me I read and re-read all of your posts to help it all sink in.

[MrBrside]

In the last 2 years I have worked on my self a lot

You have a very very long winded sitch.. 16 threads ! A messed up divorce followed by a rushed and even more messed up relationship shortly after.

You cherry picked or didnt act on advice in your early posts, and you are doing the same now on the new relationship - Like my post yesterday, you confused the hell out of me, as your words and planned actions one day don't match your update the day after - My advice is get your head straight - Your posts and actions do not show somebody who has worked on themselves at all - they show somebody who is in a further pickle, from action on emotion - somebody who is still acting on emotion..

and to the icing on the cake

but I want a family again

You had children from M1 !!!! - What more does a man need ? Does your defenition of family include needing a wife to cook and clean... You have children - They should have been your primary focus - unconditional love !

But as you wanted a family, so you went out and got a new play toy to make a new family - at the expense of your relationship with your other children ! - Selfish and wrong - These are WW actions - NOT the actions of a man in a good mindset - Sorry to be blunt, but thats how i see it !

Being so desperate for this "family" you ignore the red flags and get this unsuitable woman pregnant - again - You are a responsible adult - Just why - Considering its been on the rocks for months ! - why !

This topic is becoming the same old same old on a daily basis - You come here complaining about the GF, take more 2x4 than most people here, asked for advice, say you will change, and then the next day, its the same old same old.

ONLY YOU can get yourself out of this mess - People here ( and believe me, i dont believe you will get any better advice anywhere ) can advise you, but you have to make the decissions and be prepared to live and deal with the consequences.

I do no believe GF is a good match and i think you need to man up and sort your &^&^ sooner rather than later - But you are so scared of the short term consequences, you are prepared to go through years of hell.

[LH19]

Lol. Mr. Bside is in the house. That’s why I am questioning if he’s real because how could someone be on this board for two years and go from one mess to another so quickly? I guess if someone can it’s the wolf man.

[Wolfman]

Look I am sorry I am not as emotional strong as you other men. I was very emotionally weak. You are right I did not take the advice of many.

My definition of family is a wife and kids all under the same roof. LH you say I have been on here for 2 years. For 6-7 months I wasn’t on here because the relationship with my GF was great. Obviously it was the honeymoon stage, but for that time being things were great between us. They were good for about a year. There was a lot of other stresses I was going through that I did not come on here and talk about.

I’ll summarize: my parents at 75 years old decided to get a divorce. My mom is handicapped and had a live in aid. Well I caught my dad and her having sex in the house with my mom there. I had a long talk with them, it continued. So had to inform my mom because that is disgusting. Well he started to threaten me. Then mom get a new aid. Parents divorce e states they have to sell the house, mom has no idea where she is going to go. Absolutely refusing nursing home. Has a new live in aid, she is not doing her job, mom fires her after working there for 9 months. Well she was a live in aid and refused to leave, becomes squatter in moms home, roaming around eating my moms food and living there freely. We even locked her out of the house and she broke it through a window to get back in. We called the cops and they said we could actually get in trouble for an illegal eviction. Can’t get her out because of COVID. Meanwhile dad is stealing money and jewelry from mom. Filed charges trying to get him arrested and his GF. Get police involved. Meanwhile me and the GF are running back and forth to her house trying to protect her and help my mom. Pay her bills take care of her, we do her food shopping, GF cooks for my mom. So GF and I decide when she sells the home we will buy a 2 family house with my mom so we can be close and help her out. So for years my mom was giving money to brother to hide from Medicaid. So, mom is ecstatic about buying a 2 family home this way she is not alone. Find a home put a down payment and go into contract. Well my other brother finds out and doesn’t like that her money will go into the house (mom and I were going in 50/50) and he won’t get the money when she dies, convinces my other brother to not give me the money now and the deal falls through. In the process almost get sued. Again this has nothing to really do with this forum that’s why I wasn’t on here for a long time. And through all of that craziness my GF was right by my side helping, dealing with police at 11pm, food shopping for my mom, cooking for her, changing locks in my moms home, boarding up some rooms so live In couldn’t roam around as much. When all of this stress started to occur is when our relationship stated to change. My family BS took a toll on our relationship. Let me tell you all there is so much more to this I could write a book.

So call it an excuse, call it justifying or whatever. I don’t know if I was in my GF’s position I would have stuck by 1. And 2 the amount of stress that those months put on us took a toll on our relationship. So it makes me wonder, is she really not a good fit for me or was it everything going on? So that’s where my confusion comes in.

[LH19]

Look Wolf you got yourself into a jam and I’m sure you’ll do the right thing. I guess it just doesn’t make any sense to me to come here get advice and then ignore it. Then keep coming back. But everyone is different. Good luck in life. I can’t imagine having an infant right now but I’m sure you will be a good dad.

[Wolfman]

Look Wolf you got yourself into a jam and I’m sure you’ll do the right thing. I guess it just doesn’t make any sense to me to come here get advice and then ignore it. Then keep coming back. But everyone is different. Good luck in life. I can’t imagine having an infant right now but I’m sure you will be a good dad.

LH I have always valued your opinion. And usually you are right. I don’t know why I have such a hard time implementing what everyone says. I guess like the saying goes, sometimes doing what is right is not easy. Ok so honestly speaking. How do I go about this? She is 27, pregnant, she just started a new job, and no place to go. I do love this girl, again not sure if it was everything that happened recently with my family, but she was amazing to me and my children for a long time. She would play hide and seek with them, board games, play basketball with my son, shoot one day my son and I were in the backyard having a football catch and she made a sign just for the fun of it and it said go my sons name you are the best. She didn’t have to do that. So these sort of things makes me torn. Sorry I digress. So, advise me.

[Ginger1]

I’m sorry that you feel a family isn’t a family of you unless you are under the same roof. That’s sad.

[LH19]

Well here’s what I would do. There’s absolutely zero chance I would marry this girl right now. I would have a talk with her and let her know that things aren’t working and you need to make some changes together and outline what all those changes look like. If she brings up marriage tell her you are not ready right now. If she try’s to blackmail you then you give her a timeline to find her own place. You speak to a lawyer about custody arrangements and monetary support.

[LH19]

Uuuuuuummmmmm and you get a vaz immediately or keep it in your pants.

[Ginger1]

None of us can tell you what to do. Like LH did he told you what he would do.

You have to make these decisions. No one can make them for you

[AnotherStander]

Wolf, I can understand why you are confused. I'm only reading what you post here, I don't actually know her or you beyond what you post. So I can't say 100% that she is a scammer, but I definitely get that impression. Here is what I think, again with the understanding that I have limited knowledge of your situation:

I think your GF is trying to entrap you. She may be a predator masquerading as a damsel in distress. Tricks you into letting her move in. Plays Suzie Homemaker to cement her position once there. INTENTIONALLY gets pregnant to lock in her spot. Guilt-trips you that she has no place else to go and no one else to turn to, and what kind of evil man would turn a poor, innocent, pregnant girl out onto the streets. Now that she's established herself there, now comes the next phase. Threats, lies, gaslighting, manipulation, withholding of sex and house duties in order to get what she wants. The very definition of gaslighting is "manipulate someone by psychological means into questioning their own sanity", and that is how you are basically describing your state-of-mind right now, isn't it. She's preying on your "nice guy" tendencies, using that against you to keep her spot in the house long enough to establish residency. Ultimately she wants marriage so she has legal recourse to half your property plus alimony and child support. Once you are married the really harsh treatment will begin, it will make what you are going through now look like a vacation in Cabo.

I've actually seen a few situations like this involving young, predatory women.

Here is the thing Wolf, whether she's a scammer or whether she's just an innocent young lady going through some things, EITHER WAY the BEST thing to do is get her out of your house so the two of you can sort out your relationship with the benefit of some distance from each other. Once she's out and a little time has passed I think you'll get your head straight and sort out if she's a scammer or not.

Also I'm not sure I've clearly stated this but a paternity test is a must. There was a show about one of these scammers who moved in with a guy and coerced him into unprotected sex while also sleeping with her "real" boyfriend, intentionally trying to get pregnant (which she did) so that the target would think it was his and "do the right thing" and marry her. Don't assume anything.

[MrBrside]

WM,

Listen to AS..

In some ways i am a victim of this very situation. My WW fell pregnant after only 3 months. She was on the pill but it suddenly failed ?????? and she became pregnant. She told me she didnt believe in abortions, yet irronically had an abortion 5 years later when i refused to back down to one of her demands..

At the point that she got pregnant i was already questioning / seeing red flags such as a previous affair with her boss who was already in a relationship.
I did the "right thing" and made it work.. We did have 2 more children, but i refused to marry her.. This was a massive issue for her, but somehting was just telling me "don't do it"... Not i think it was just to get half of my pension and assets.

Would i have been with her much longer if she had not got pregnant - no, because i realised she was a liar..

Things got worse over the years, and i really did think i was losing my mind once she became WW.. I even told my mother i thought i was going mad.

As AS states, my WW preyed on nice guy tendanies.. and the guy WW is with now is a "nice guy" - i do feel sorry for him..

But i'm free WM !!! - And i love life now. I dropped the rope and have very little to do with her.

In your sitch - She is carrying your child ( maybe ? ) so you need to be there for the child.. as for the rest ? - well if you allow it, you will become a victim of manipulation and mental abuse.. Only you can decide to walk away though.

You were arguing way before she got pregnant, so hormones dont cut it as an excuse.

[Ready2Change]

Hi Wolf,

From my personal notes:

Figure out what kind of person I am currently dealing with. Respond to each type completely different:
1) Wise people listen, so talking to them works.
2) When dealing with foolish people, stop talking and set limits and consequences.
3) If the person is behaving evil, let lawyers and law enforcement deal with them.

Remember, 55% of the message is conveyed visually through body language and facial expressions, 38% is expressed vocally by my tempo, tone and inflections and only 7% verbally through my words. Before speaking, assure all 3V’s are congruent to avoid confusing the listener.

I feel like you are in the #2 category. I get frustrated and I see other poster getting frustrated as well. Mostly because you are not changing as fast as we think you should. We could stop posting to you as one of our boundaries. I keep posting to you with hopes of change and because I know other people will read this thread and gain some insight on changes they could make to improve their lives.

As far as your woman, I would determine if she is a 1,2 or 3.

Just know that you are exactly where you need to be in your journey. Every single choice you have made up to this point in your life has gotten you right here. Make different choices and get different results.


Embrace the suck.
Amor Fati
Every thing happens for a reason.
Choose your sacrifice

Agreement 1: Be Impeccable With Your Word.
Agreement 2: Don't Take Anything Personally.
Agreement 3: Don't Make Assumptions.
Agreement 4: Always Do Your Best.

One of the secrets to a good relationship is learning to distinguish between the important issues to express my feelings about and the petty ones to let slide by. Commit to being honest and clear with lots of compassion (kind but true). My sense of concern for the person must be integrated with the truth of what I need to say. Be in approach motivation most of the time. Tell how I feel and why. Respond when I am ready. Stick to self control statements. Stick to my desires. Reiterate what I will do or not do and let them be angry.

You can handle it.-Coach (RIP)

[SteveLW]

Uuuuuuummmmmm and you get a vaz immediately or keep it in your pants.

AMEN

[SteveLW]

WM,

In some ways i am a victim of this very situation. My WW fell pregnant after only 3 months. She was on the pill but it suddenly failed ?????? and she became pregnant. She told me she didnt believe in abortions, yet irronically had an abortion 5 years later when i refused to back down to one of her demands..

I would change the word "ironically" to "tragically".

[SteveLW]

Just keep adding insult to injury. I have my son today. I noticed the GF was cooking something. So I went to her and said you cooking something g for dinner for yourself or all of us. She replied just for me. She said, “I don’t think that is my job anymore.” I said you use to do it all the time. She said unless things change she doesn’t think it’s her job now. Ridiculous. I am taking my son out to dinner instead.

The immaturity displayed by her here should have your running for the hills....baby or no baby.

I WILL REPEAT: Being the baby's father does not require you to be the mother's SO/H. So commit to that baby with all your heart, but do not commit to this woman or you'll end up here again in 2-5 years, almost guaranteed.

[MrBrside]

WM,

In some ways i am a victim of this very situation. My WW fell pregnant after only 3 months. She was on the pill but it suddenly failed ?????? and she became pregnant. She told me she didnt believe in abortions, yet irronically had an abortion 5 years later when i refused to back down to one of her demands..

I would change the word "ironically" to "tragically".

Tragically is one word... Amoungst many many others i could use.. All in her interest of manipulation and control.

We live and learn - i should have walked away then..

[sandi2]

She did all the cooking up until she found out she was pregnant and then said she needed to be pregnant. But before that she cooked my kids favorite foods all the time. I mean my son loves shrimp, she would constantly buy it and make it for him. When my daughter was coming she would make she sure she had her favorite drinks. One day my d said, “I’m in the mood for a milkshake.” At the time we didn’t have any ice cream. So my GF ran out and got ice cream and chocolate syrup for her. This whole pregnancy thing has got her crazy. Is it the hormones? Is is this really who she is coming out now?

I can't begin to count how many women I've seen IRL appear like an angel, all sweetness & sunshine, a man's dream of a wife. Then once she gets that ring on her finger, the real woman starts showing. I think most people want their best side to shine to their potential spouse/lover. This behavior you are seeing now, is not due to pregnancy hormones! She has been very clear about why she is not doing her share of housework & cooking. Every day she will make things for you a bit harder. As I said last time, you can expect her to cut the sex off any day now. This is the behavior of a selfish, immature girl, not a woman in love with you, who wants to make a home with you and be a loving step-mom to your children. It was all an act, Wolf.

Forgive me everyone, I know a lot of you are going to jump down my throats but I want a family again.

Well, I'm sorry you feel like we are jumping down your throat. We can see more objectively, b/c we aren't emotionally involved in your drama. You want the family that was taken away from you.....and if you can't have that one, you'll get another one. In theory, that might be fine, but IMHO, you have not gone through the healing/mourning process from your divorce. I think your relationship with your GF was like applying a soothing salve, but it wasn't strong enough to heal your wounds. I remember how afraid you were at the thought of living alone. When you were writing about your loss, it was the family life you wanted. I didn't remember hearing how deeply you loved your W, or how you couldn't live without her. It was always the family unit that held your heart. There's nothing wrong with wanting a family. Getting married to a woman who is already waving red flags before the wedding? That could be a major problem.

My biggest concern is your state of confusion. It causes you to be very vulnerable to her wearing you down. I think it is unhealthy for your GF to live with you right now. You need space to figure out your own feelings and what you want going forward. She's not alone. She has family.

In the last 2 years I have worked on my self a lot. And feel like I have changed a lot. For example, not holding a grudge, being a lot more patient with my children, maybe at times too much. I have really worked on validating a lot. So, I guess I would hope she would too. 😞

Interesting. Why would you hope your GF would work on herself? Were there conversations about areas she needed to improve? Maybe you just assumed?

I know I did this and there is no one else to blame but it scares me to know I will have 2 baby mamas. I felt like I had a chance to start over with her, but like a lot of you have said, too many red flags!!!

Okay, you did this. It was a big risk and it has come back to bite you. So, do you have to enter into another MR? Are you seeing her as your last chance at love & happiness? I think the age difference is going to be more of a problem after you marry her. It was fine to have sex with a young, attractive girl, without the drama of a W & kids.......but when you enter into a long term relationship, making a home and raising children together,..........that age gap can be a big problem. How does she fit in with your group of friends? How do you fit in with hers? Are her friends around her age, and do you feel like the oldest guy there? What physical activities do both like to do together, outside the house? Have you ever taken her on a trip? You don't have to answer me, it's just for you to think about.

And to be completely honest some of her behaviors are definitely immature, I would have done the same things at her age.

Like I said, it's going to show up a lot more, if you stay together. You don't want to feel as if you are raising another daughter.......but with her level of immaturity, that's a big possibility. As with any M, there is plenty to consider, but I think this difference in your ages, bring problems that you might not have with someone closer to your age. Fifteen yrs doesn't sound terrible on paper, but you have to examine where the two of you are in life. She's just getting started, and she may want a couple more kids.

I'm just trying to get you to think logically. Whatever you decide, you can still come here and talk with us. Who else is going to call you out?

[Wolfman]

Well here’s what I would do. There’s absolutely zero chance I would marry this girl right now. I would have a talk with her and let her know that things aren’t working and you need to make some changes together and outline what all those changes look like. If she brings up marriage tell her you are not ready right now. If she try’s to blackmail you then you give her a timeline to find her own place. You speak to a lawyer about custody arrangements and monetary support.

So I spoke with her last night about exactly what I want and expect. She brought up marriage and I said look I am not ready. We need to build a foundation first. She said she feels like I am stringing her along. I explained to her I am not and don’t want to ever get divorced again, so in order for me to get married we need that solid foundation. She mentioned that she didn’t know if she could wait. So I said I understand that you may want this now but we are not ready. I also said having a baby is not a reason to get married. Our therapist said that too yesterday too. So she said she can’t live like this. I said that is fine. Then we break up. She said ok, that she would need to the middle of January. I said absolutely not. You have until December 15. This way she had a month to find a place and save some money (she has a job now). I think she was completely shocked with that. So she asked if I was going to make her pay rent. I said no. But the. She started to talk about the relationship and how important it is for the child to have both parents at the same time. So, then she started to back track about working things out. She expressed her biggest concern is that at any time I could pick up and leave. Since I recently did that too her. I explained that’s why we work on the relationship and that I can’t make any promises about engagement or marriage. It was like she wanted me to say, I’m just making this up fight now, something like we will get engaged at the end of December. She wants to feel like we are working towards something. I explained we are but we can’t put a date because that is pressure. As I write this, maybe I should have said if things are not better by a certain date we go our separate ways.
One thing I see which is weird. I see how she wants this so bad, for whatever reason. It’s exactly how I felt when my ex was divorcing me. It’s a cr&ppy way to feel. So i understand that feeling t hat you have no control and the other has all the control. But I have to control this situation. She also said something to me I said to my ex when we were getting divorced. I told her we had 17 amazing years together, you want to end the marriage over the last 2 which were only a little rocky? My GF said something along those lines to me. We had a great 14 months and the last 2 is what you are going by. Obviously, I know having 17 years togther is a whole different story than 1. But it just made me think. It’s weird I feel like the WH in this situation. She is begging and pleading for me to stay over some over her bad behaviors, exactly what happened when I was getting divorced. Weird

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has posted:
AS I see your order of what is to come. I am going to stick to my guns on her having to make that commitment again.
R2C I like number 2. I will set boundaries and consequences. I feel like in my marriage I was never given the opportunity to change or fix anything. I will give a shot at that. My time frame on this middle of December.

Just keep adding insult to injury. I have my son today. I noticed the GF was cooking something. So I went to her and said you cooking something g for dinner for yourself or all of us. She replied just for me. She said, “I don’t think that is my job anymore.” I said you use to do it all the time. She said unless things change she doesn’t think it’s her job now. Ridiculous. I am taking my son out to dinner instead.

The immaturity displayed by her here should have your running for the hills....baby or no baby.

I WILL REPEAT: Being the baby's father does not require you to be the mother's SO/H. So commit to that baby with all your heart, but do not commit to this woman or you'll end up here again in 2-5 years, almost guaranteed.

I hear you Steve. I guess it’s the nice guy in me. I felt like in my last situation I was never given a chance to “make it right”. I feel I should give her that chance.

Mr. B sorry you went through that. I am playing this real cautiously, now.

[sandi2]

She mentioned that she didn’t know if she could wait.

From what I'm seeing, it's not so much her pressuring to just get married. The real pressure is to get married immediately. If she loved you and really wanted to get M for the sake of the child........why wouldn't she be willing to cooperate with you about building a foundation? And, scratch the idea she's an old fashion gal who is embarrassed to be pregnant and not married. I think she had her sights on marriage for a while. She just had to play the part to win you over to the idea. Was shocked when her pregnancy news didn't swing the deal, so now she's adding more pressure.......like playing the guilt card.

I think the real issue can be found in her haste to get M. She can't wait? What's she going to do, find another man who will jump at marrying her? I think you are smart not to cave under her pressure.

[AnotherStander]

So I spoke with her last night about exactly what I want and expect. She brought up marriage and I said look I am not ready. We need to build a foundation first.

GOOD!

She said she feels like I am stringing her along. I explained to her I am not and don’t want to ever get divorced again, so in order for me to get married we need that solid foundation. She mentioned that she didn’t know if she could wait. So I said I understand that you may want this now but we are not ready. I also said having a baby is not a reason to get married. Our therapist said that too yesterday too. So she said she can’t live like this. I said that is fine. Then we break up. She said ok, that she would need to the middle of January. I said absolutely not. You have until December 15. This way she had a month to find a place and save some money (she has a job now). I think she was completely shocked with that.

That all sounds fine, try to remember to listen and validate but otherwise it sounds like you're doing well sticking to your guns.

She started to talk about the relationship and how important it is for the child to have both parents at the same time. So, then she started to back track about working things out.

Her blackmailing didn't work so she's changing tactics and trying to "nice" you again. Don't fall for it.

She expressed her biggest concern is that at any time I could pick up and leave. Since I recently did that too her. I explained that’s why we work on the relationship and that I can’t make any promises about engagement or marriage.

Yes exactly.

It was like she wanted me to say, I’m just making this up fight now, something like we will get engaged at the end of December. She wants to feel like we are working towards something. I explained we are but we can’t put a date because that is pressure. As I write this, maybe I should have said if things are not better by a certain date we go our separate ways.

She needs to move out, is that still the plan? It sounded like it was, but then it sounds like you may have backpedaled from there. I would stick to her moving out mid-December. As far as putting a date on breaking up for good, I don't think that's necessary. Give therapy a chance to work.

One thing I see which is weird. I see how she wants this so bad, for whatever reason.

Her incentive is having a home, food, clothing, etc. with no need to ever work again. I really don't think she wants -you- so much as your money and home and such. I could be wrong, but if I'm right then it's not "weird", it explains all her behavior.

I told her we had 17 amazing years together, you want to end the marriage over the last 2 which were only a little rocky? My GF said something along those lines to me. We had a great 14 months and the last 2 is what you are going by. Obviously, I know having 17 years togther is a whole different story than 1.

Yes, it is completely different. Someone can put on a show for a year if they think they're going to get what they want. They can pretend to be the perfect little wifey for that long. But like Sandi said, now her true colors are starting to show.

AS I see your order of what is to come. I am going to stick to my guns on her having to make that commitment again.

Good deal. And do make sure she moves out.

I hear you Steve. I guess it’s the nice guy in me. I felt like in my last situation I was never given a chance to “make it right”. I feel I should give her that chance.

What if you found out that this is all a scam she's running to weasel her way into your household for financial gain? What if you knew that once you married her, she would stop all work around the house, cut off the sex, sit on the couch with a bag of chips watching Oprah every day while never lifting a finger to do anything, and insist on you hiring a maid and a nanny while constantly yelling at you for not making enough money and insisting you find a better job? Because you wouldn't be the first this has happened to. So think long and hard about that. As I (and others) keep saying, you need the benefit of time and distance (separation) to determine her real motivations.

[Ready2Change]

What's she going to do, find another man who will jump at marrying her?

I worked with a guy who had paternity testing done and his oldest child was not his....looked a lot like his wifes X.

[sandi2]

Her incentive is having a home, food, clothing, etc. with no need to ever work again. I really don't think she wants -you- so much as your money and home and such. I could be wrong, but if I'm right then it's not "weird", it explains all her behavior.

Agree 100%.

[Wolfman]

Sandi you wrote this:
How does she fit in with your group of friends? How do you fit in with hers? Are her friends around her age, and do you feel like the oldest guy there? What physical activities do both like to do together, outside the house? Have you ever taken her on a trip? You don't have to answer me, it's just for you to think about.

I want to answer that she fits in very well with my fiends. They all like her. I fit in with her friends too. There has never been an issue or awkwardness with any of our friends. We both like going to the gym, playing sports, swimming, rock climbing. We have a lot in common as far as being active. She is a international flight attendant, before COVID hit she Would take me with her. She took me to Norway, Paris and we did Brazil as a couples trip. The first 2 she was working and took me along, pulled me up to first class stayed in her hotel so it cost us nothing. In August I surprised her with a trip to Cancun. Had a great time.

Update our sex life has picked up, she is back to doing all the things she was before. Just really getting along. Been really busy with work so I haven’t been on a lot. I’ll keep you all updated.

[SteveLW]

Update our sex life has picked up, she is back to doing all the things she was before. Just really getting along. Been really busy with work so I haven’t been on a lot. I’ll keep you all updated.

Funny how that happens when a woman wants a man to marry her...................

[MrBrside]

Update our sex life has picked up, she is back to doing all the things she was before. Just really getting along. Been really busy with work so I haven’t been on a lot. I’ll keep you all updated.

You are still doing it WM.. You are flitting between 1 mindset 1 day / week then another a few days later.

You have seen her true colours. This week all is good and you are playing happy families - she has an agenda - its only a matter of time before she gets *&() at you..Then it goes full circle... Another 6 to 12 pages of the latest drama..

[Traveler]

Hi Wolfman,

As I understand it, you wonder whether the good months or bad months are more representative of who she is. The bad months sounded terrible. Delaying engagement (1yr?) and marriage (2-4yrs?) seems best for you. In time you'll learn who she is. At the same time, she wants to feel this relationship is building and going somewhere. I worry you will feel pressure and fold after only a couple of months of "good wife", you marry her, and she goes back to "bad wife". Consider what steps you could take between now and engagement to deepen the relationship to relieve pressure. I guess that's complicated by the fact you already live together, know each other's families and friends, are having a baby, etc.--but there must be some steps.

[AnotherStander]

We both like going to the gym, playing sports, swimming, rock climbing. We have a lot in common as far as being active. She is a international flight attendant, before COVID hit she Would take me with her. She took me to Norway, Paris and we did Brazil as a couples trip. The first 2 she was working and took me along, pulled me up to first class stayed in her hotel so it cost us nothing. In August I surprised her with a trip to Cancun. Had a great time.

This is the same woman that you say is destitute and would be homeless if you didn't let her stay with you? I'm with MrB, your posts are all over the place. One week you can't stand her and want to kick her out because she's abusive but you are afraid to because she will be living on the streets while pregnant with your baby, the next week she's this high-flying jetsetter that is the best l'il girlfriend in the world. I'm having trouble reconciling all these posts you're making!

[LH19]

Uuuummmm. That’s why I said he may be a troll. Could anyone’s life be this haphazard? He’s also a teacher so chew on that one for a minute lol. Our youth are in good hands.

[Wolfman]

Maybe this will help you understand me. I have always been a person when it came to making decisions in MY life I am very indecisive. I have trouble picking out a paint color for a room, I second guess myself all the time. So my posts being all over the place, yes that is my normal life, which stinks. I have always had trouble making decisive decisions. Instead of having a plan many times in life I go where the wind takes me, which is not good either. Shoot, in college I changed my major 3 times. I went to 3 different college. I struggle with always being afraid of making the wrong decisions. And if I tell someone a situation and I get 2 different advices then I am even more confused. I need to really work on making decisions and sticking with them.

Uuuummmm. That’s why I said he may be a troll. Could anyone’s life be this haphazard? He’s also a teacher so chew on that one for a minute lol. Our youth are in good hands.

First off why the insult of the “troll”? Second I am a great teacher!!! When it comes to curriculum and teaching I have a plan and stick to it. My students have always come back and tell me how much they have learned and how much they appreciate my teaching. Look, I have no problem with you guys telling me what to do and not do. But I thought this was a safe space and there was no need to take shots at me. Your advice sometimes I find off but I listen. Because I want to see things from another perspective. I also have a lot more going on in my private life that add to the stress.

[Thornton]

Hey Wolf,

I'm glad you are sticking with us. I don't recall reading in your sitch but have you ever had counseling to determine why you are so indecisive? That seems very fear driven and might be worth looking in to.

Also, what was you upbringing like? Did your parents get along? Are they still married? Any abandonment during your childhood?

[MrBrside]

Uuuummmm. That’s why I said he may be a troll. Could anyone’s life be this haphazard? He’s also a teacher so chew on that one for a minute lol. Our youth are in good hands.

LH,

this is the second time in 2 days you have made me cry - tears in my eyes from your comments..lol..You are funny.

WM,

This is a safe place, but from our perspective, you are so up and down, it does feel like we go in circles.

One minute you joke about being the poster boy for how not to do it, the next you are making a go of it...

It is so "bang head" against a wall..

So think of it from your teaching standpoint..

Student gets it wrong and asks for advice.

You give advice.

Next days, student is back asking for the same help again.

You give advice

Next day, they havent grasped it and ask the same questions again.

You calmly explain

and so on and so on and so on !!!

How would you feel about this student, if they came to you every day with the same question ?

[sandi2]

I have always been a person when it came to making decisions in MY life I am very indecisive. I have trouble picking out a paint color for a room, I second guess myself all the time. So my posts being all over the place, yes that is my normal life, which stinks. I have always had trouble making decisive decisions. Instead of having a plan many times in life I go where the wind takes me, which is not good either. Shoot, in college I changed my major 3 times. I went to 3 different college. I struggle with always being afraid of making the wrong decisions. And if I tell someone a situation and I get 2 different advices then I am even more confused. I need to really work on making decisions and sticking with them.

I believe you. It is miserable for people who have this much trouble making decisions. How much does your NGS play on your indecisiveness? Did you wait for your W to make most decisions about the daily things, b/c it was easier on you?

What if one of your students had this problem? What would you advise?

I'm always glad to see you post, rather than going several days of hearing nothing from you.

[SteveLW]

Wolf, I have friends like you and I see many of the same struggles. They really come to me and want me to make their decisions for them. Which I refuse to do. I will give them advice, things to think about, but the decision is theirs.

Same with this forum. We don't tell people "what to do". We give perspective, advice, and warning......but is up to the poster to decide. I think you should tell her she has 2 months to move out, that you will support your child, and move on with your life as this kid's father, but not the kid's mother's husband. All I can do is type "that is what I think you should do". But it is up to you to decide.

However, we give you the advice we give you based on the details you choose to share.....or not share. That is where AS is coming from. "She would be destitute without me" to "she is a flight attendant" doesn't jive. We were giving you advice based on her being destitute. And here she is able-bodied and gainfully employed. See how that could change the advice? You received some advice that was very empathetic with her plight, when the reality wasn't quite what you made it out to be.

So yes, this is a safe place. But is also a place where we will call out things that do not make sense. Or when sound advice is ignored (like don't date, let alone impregnate, someone while you are rebounding!) us pointing back to that previous advice and pointing out why we gave that advice. That is as much for everyone else that comes here struggling with similar situations as it is for you. But the bottom line is why even post here if you aren't going to at least consider the collective experience and wisdom found here?

WM, you keep doing you.....and doing what you feel you should. But there will be times we call you out if you are being inconsistent! You came back here admitting you'd screwed up jumping into this relationship, and all of the problems it caused. And then as soon as the sex gets good again, you are all in again. All we want for you is the best, and that you look at things with the perspective necessary to make the best decision.

[sandi2]

Aboulomania (from Greek a– 'without', and boulē 'will') is a mental disorder in which the patient displays pathological indecisiveness. It is typically associated with anxiety, stress, depression, and mental anguish, and can severely affect one's ability to function socially.

You said you had trouble deciding on what color of paint to get. Deciding on the color of paint may not seem as though it should cause anxiety or stress for the majority of people, but for a person like yourself, it seems to bring the same type of feelings you would have with major decisions.

You are dealing with a lot right now, but maybe you could do a little reading about it and see what can be done. Seems to me if you could learn how to proactively resolve or manage this, then it would certainly be helpful in all areas of your life. IMHO, it makes sense why there is so much drama for you.

((hugs))

[may22]

"She would be destitute without me" to "she is a flight attendant" doesn't jive. We were giving you advice based on her being destitute. And here she is able-bodied and gainfully employed. See how that could change the advice? You received some advice that was very empathetic with her plight, when the reality wasn't quite what you made it out to be.

Just to note... many many flight attendants are furloughed or out of a job right now. I have a friend who is a flight attendant with a ton of seniority-- been flying for 20 plus years. She's furloughed and depressed. Her husband is still employed so they aren't going hungry, but if she was completely dependent on her own earnings-- she'd be in trouble. And this is a person who a year ago was jetting off to international destinations and bringing friends, getting facials in Korea and shopping in Hong Kong because... well, why not? That was her job and her lifestyle, which has all now come crashing down. And, many of the jobs that flight attendant skills transfer to easily (customer facing retail, hotels, restaurants, etc.) are also all unavailable right now with tons of people out of work in those industries as well.

Don't be so quick to judge. I feel like I'm the only one here asking for a little sympathy for this woman, and I'm not even a fan-- she may very well be the sociopath you're all making her out to be. But she also just could be a young woman in a really difficult position who doesn't really have the tools to deal with her current situation. If she's only 26 she's probably low on the totem pole with her airline and is out of work. Probably out of unemployment now too. I live in a place that is heavily dependent on tourism and many, many families are really hurting and can't pay rent. The lines for food distribution have stretched hours onto the highway.

And let me say that I lived with my H before we were married and was not at all embarrassed about that-- in fact, I thought it was a must before getting engaged. However, I would have been hugely freaked out to be pregnant and unmarried (and I'm not religious at all). Now, it seems totally crazy to me to have unprotected sex if I didn't want a kid, so I am 100% on board with all of you thinking both Wolf and his GF played with fire and now they are facing the lifelong consequences of some pretty dumb decisions. And yes, I absolutely question the thought process of anyone who would do that, so she very well may be a sociopath and trying to get her hooks into Wolf. I just want to point out that there isn't necessarily a cognitive distortion between being okay with living together unmarried and being okay with being pregnant and unmarried. I don't know a single couple who got married before they moved in together, but that's just me.

[Ginger1]

Interesting wolf. It makes sense to me now. You always say “tell me what to do, guys” instead of “can I have some guidance on making a decision”

I recall from your earlier postings you used to place a lot of blame. Lots of blame on everyone, including the ex. It reminds me of my ex where he would leave decisions in my hands and responsibility in my hands so when something went wrong, he wouldn’t have to take responsibility. Because he did t make the choice or decision or because it wasn’t his job. He could place all the blame on me.

I see how you do that yourself. It’s ok for something to not go the way you hoped as long as you give it your best shot, and take responsibility for it when everything goes wrong. And taking responsibility isn’t just “ I’m wrong, I messed up” it’s taking from what you learned I. That situation and dealing with it

[sandi2]

I feel like I'm the only one here asking for a little sympathy for this woman, and I'm not even a fan-- she may very well be the sociopath you're all making her out to be.

I wouldn't go that far, to say she's a sociopath. Maybe this story touches your heart in a way it doesn't me. I don't have a lot of compassion for a modern 26 yr old flight attendant, (who was not a virgin when she met Wolf, and if memory serves me right, started sleeping him right away)....... and yet, she still didn't take precaution to protect herself. Not when they started dating, and not when she moved in with him. How much sense does that make? This isn't the 40's or 50's when girls were jumping off bridges b/c they got pregnant. They didn't have BC pills and wasn't passing out free condoms, like it is today. So, yes, I am suspicious of a woman who pretends to be one way while she's trying to snag the guy, and then gets pregnant and shows a different side and pressurizes him to marry her immediately. And yes, I feel she was trying to snag him all this time. I'm not putting all the blame of getting pregnant on her, b/c neither of them took steps in preventing it.......but I'm saying in this day & time, why would a modern woman not protect herself from pregnancy if she's going to have sex? If it had been an one time slip up, I might feel more compassion. If she had been taking BC pills, and still got pregnant, then I might have more compassion, but I just don't get why a woman with an exciting career would intentionally have unprotected sex for a continuous period of time. I think she had her sights set on marrying Wolf.

And let me say that I lived with my H before we were married and was not at all embarrassed about that-- in fact, I thought it was a must before getting engaged. However, I would have been hugely freaked out to be pregnant and unmarried (and I'm not religious at all).

Why would you have freaked if you were already living with the man? I mean, would it have been due to finances and the responsibility of being a single mom? If I'm understanding you correctly, you had no qualms about living together outside of marriage. I guess it's difficult for me to understand how it would be a necessity to live together before even becoming engaged, but pregnancy would bring a different moral code into the relationship. And if it's not based on morals, then what is it?

According to Wolf, she said she would be too embarrassed to be pregnant and not married. Why be embarrassed after you get pregnant, if you don't care what other people think about your life style or choices? I think maybe you are saying something else, but IDK for certain. Is it about morals? Does it change when a pregnancy shows up? I get the feeling Wolf isn't concerned about the moral side or how it looks to other people. My intentions were to point out to Wolf that he should not be pressured into marrying her, due to the pregnancy. Take responsibility and be in the child's life, yes, but don't get married if he doesn't love her. IMHO, there are big red flags waving in their relationship.

I don't know a single couple who got married before they moved in together, but that's just me.

My H and I were virgins on our wedding night. I was very young, and had never even seen a picture of a naked man, and had certainly never heard of oral sex (which is getting off the subject), but that's how it was. I've known many, many people who fell in love and waited until their wedding night to have sex. People grow up with different views & opinions. I just wanted you to know, there really have been people who got married without living together first, or even having sex. My grandparents had never kissed before their wedding ceremony, and I remember asking her what if he had been a bad kisser, and she said it would not have mattered b/c she loved him. So, I measure how as a teenager I thought about how strange my grandparents were for never kissing each other before the wedding......and today with how people can't imagine marrying someone without first having sex with them.

[may22]

hi Sandi,

(Sorry Wolf to hijack)

Why would you have freaked if you were already living with the man? I mean, would it have been due to finances and the responsibility of being a single mom? If I'm understanding you correctly, you had no qualms about living together outside of marriage. I guess it's difficult for me to understand how it would be a necessity to live together before even becoming engaged, but pregnancy would bring a different moral code into the relationship. And if it's not based on morals, then what is it?

I guess it is a moral thing for me. Again, I'm not religious, but I had never seen divorce as an option and have only slowly come around to it from constant pressure on this board, which is weird as a "divorce busting" board but that is neither here nor there. I feel strongly about giving children, if you choose to have them, the best possible environment and for me, that would mean parents who are married to each other, to the extent that is under your control. I know plenty of people who have kids together and aren't married. That is their choice and I don't judge. It just isn't what I had always imagined for my own life.

I was always very, very careful about birth control and I guess had I gotten pregnant with my H when we lived together it wouldn't have been the end of the world, but I would have assumed we would still get married. We moved in together with the explicit understanding that it was a step in the path towards marriage. I guess I do think I would have been embarrassed. And no judgement again either way. I just want to point out that in my world, it makes sense to me that she could be embarrassed about being pregnant and unmarried yet not embarrassed about living together unmarried. I get that things are different in different places and there are different expectations, and I have no idea where Wolf lives or what people generally do where he lives. I'm just sharing my own experience to the extent it is helpful for people to see other POVs. And thank you for sharing your background too! I love that on this board we are able to connect with people who may be very far apart in a lot of ways but all still are very human and share that core human experience.

And again, totally agreed on the birth control and the craziness of not taking any precautions. That honestly blows my mind and yes, gives me suspicion that something else might be going on there.

All that being said... I just feel bad for her. No matter how you get to that place, whether she was trying to trap Wolf into marriage or just being dumb, if you're 26, unmarried, pregnant, no family or support network, no job (I guess until just recently), I can imagine being really scared. And Wolf is EQUALLY responsible for this baby and yet we're all telling him to kick her out while she's carrying his child. It just is feeling to me like she is bearing a disproportionate percentage of the burden of their joint responsibility.

And also I COMPLETELY agree he should not feel pressured into getting married, especially given his path and her giant red flags. We're all on the same page here. I just hope he can find a solution where she feels supported during this difficult time rather than fearful and completely stressed out. (All those stress hormones are not good for the baby.)

[SteveLW]

"She would be destitute without me" to "she is a flight attendant" doesn't jive. We were giving you advice based on her being destitute. And here she is able-bodied and gainfully employed. See how that could change the advice? You received some advice that was very empathetic with her plight, when the reality wasn't quite what you made it out to be.

Just to note... many many flight attendants are furloughed or out of a job right now. I have a friend who is a flight attendant with a ton of seniority-- been flying for 20 plus years. She's furloughed and depressed. Her husband is still employed so they aren't going hungry, but if she was completely dependent on her own earnings-- she'd be in trouble. And this is a person who a year ago was jetting off to international destinations and bringing friends, getting facials in Korea and shopping in Hong Kong because... well, why not? That was her job and her lifestyle, which has all now come crashing down. And, many of the jobs that flight attendant skills transfer to easily (customer facing retail, hotels, restaurants, etc.) are also all unavailable right now with tons of people out of work in those industries as well.

Don't be so quick to judge. I feel like I'm the only one here asking for a little sympathy for this woman, and I'm not even a fan-- she may very well be the sociopath you're all making her out to be. But she also just could be a young woman in a really difficult position who doesn't really have the tools to deal with her current situation. If she's only 26 she's probably low on the totem pole with her airline and is out of work. Probably out of unemployment now too. I live in a place that is heavily dependent on tourism and many, many families are really hurting and can't pay rent. The lines for food distribution have stretched hours onto the highway.

And let me say that I lived with my H before we were married and was not at all embarrassed about that-- in fact, I thought it was a must before getting engaged. However, I would have been hugely freaked out to be pregnant and unmarried (and I'm not religious at all). Now, it seems totally crazy to me to have unprotected sex if I didn't want a kid, so I am 100% on board with all of you thinking both Wolf and his GF played with fire and now they are facing the lifelong consequences of some pretty dumb decisions. And yes, I absolutely question the thought process of anyone who would do that, so she very well may be a sociopath and trying to get her hooks into Wolf. I just want to point out that there isn't necessarily a cognitive distortion between being okay with living together unmarried and being okay with being pregnant and unmarried. I don't know a single couple who got married before they moved in together, but that's just me.

But she any of this changes anything I've said. My advice to WM stands. I can't believe the amount of time I'm suddenly spending on this forum responding to other posters rather than the OP of the thread. May, give your advice to WM. No need to respond directly to me. You think he should do something different then tell him. Peace to you.

[may22]

May, give your advice to WM. No need to respond directly to me. You think he should do something different then tell him. Peace to you.

OK-- Wolf, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I simply felt that you were getting an avalanche of pressure to kick your GF out yesterday and was attempting to show support for you if you choose not to take that path. I know you're in a tough place and so is she. I hope you can work it out in some way, living together or not, where you're both in an OK place raising a child together and you feel confident that you've done the right thing by your child and by his/her mother down the line. I felt like everyone here was making her out to be a monster and you were stuck defending her and your choices, which doesn't really help you to think clearly about the future.

Know that everyone here is posting because they care about you and want to share some of their hard-earned wisdom with you, so that you might not experience some of the difficulties others have experienced. And, you're not obliged to take anyone's advice here, even if they tell it to you a hundred times. Sort through it all and make decisions that fit best with your own situation and moral code, not anyone else's.

For me, my guiding light through all of this has been that I want to look back on this time in five or ten years and have no regrets, especially as it has to do with things that affect my children. Perhaps taking the long view, understanding where you want to be in five years or ten years with your own life and your relationships with your kids, can help take some of the pressure off of the little day-to-day decisions and help you focus on your priorities and core values. (As an aside, if you haven't gone through an exercise to identify your core values, this might not be a bad time to do so-- it might help you in your decision making process to ensure your choices align with your values.)

[sandi2]

Thanks for responding, May. I try to learn from others on the board, and that's why I'm trying to understand your thinking.

I just want to point out that in my world, it makes sense to me that she could be embarrassed about being pregnant and unmarried yet not embarrassed about living together unmarried.

See, I have trouble making that connection. How could you be embarrassed if you feel you've done nothing wrong? If living with a man outside of marriage aligns with your morals & principles, why would pregnancy suddenly change it? I find it hard to understand how you could see divorce as never an option, but enter into a marriage b/c of a pregnancy. Perhaps this is where you are coming from when you post to Wolf. Where as I am thinking of how terrible it would be to spend a life in an unhappy, unloving MR......out of being pressured to marry for any other reason but love. We obviously see it with different viewpoints. That's okay. I think your words, "in my world" are key for all of us. Many of us do come from different worlds. In my world, your explanation makes no logical sense to me. We can respectfully agree to disagree, and have no hard feelings. Wolfe can decide for himself.

And thank you for sharing your background too! I love that on this board we are able to connect with people who may be very far apart in a lot of ways but all still are very human and share that core human experience.

I agree! I don't often respond directly to another poster who is advising a newcomer. I really wanted to understand what you were saying about the pregnancy/embarrassment issue, and that's why I posted to you, giving my own thoughts......of course.

Again, I'm not religious, but I had never seen divorce as an option and have only slowly come around to it from constant pressure on this board, which is weird as a "divorce busting"

I have been thinking about this just recently, how some people may feel a bit pressured. I don't think it's intended, but in trying to help someone through their pain, it may be perceived as pressuring. I do believe we all speak from a place of experience, directly or indirectly. It does bother me, however, to know you have felt pressured by the board. Some of us speak rather bluntly, and it may sound as if we are being harsh, or maybe superimposing our views on someone else. However, what does it accomplish if the other person can't freely make their decisions based on the information they are given? It's their life, and we are suppose to be a support group. Sometimes, we might need to be reminded, lest we get carried away with trying to get them to see our own views.

((hugs))

[harvey]

Just to note... many many flight attendants are furloughed or out of a job right now. I have a friend who is a flight attendant with a ton of seniority-- been flying for 20 plus years. She's furloughed and depressed. Her husband is still employed so they aren't going hungry, but if she was completely dependent on her own earnings-- she'd be in trouble. And this is a person who a year ago was jetting off to international destinations and bringing friends, getting facials in Korea and shopping in Hong Kong because... well, why not? That was her job and her lifestyle, which has all now come crashing down. And, many of the jobs that flight attendant skills transfer to easily (customer facing retail, hotels, restaurants, etc.) are also all unavailable right now with tons of people out of work in those industries as well.

As somebody who works for a major airline, I can attest to this. Over 50% of our employees took LOAs for 1 month-1 year. Then, nearly 40% of our employees took the out or early retirement. The ones of us left are working 30 hours/week until things get back to normal. The airlines are taking a massive hit, and a flight attendant just might be destitute at the moment.

I'm not sure what advice to give Wolfman. I'll just wish him the best. What he and his GF are going through is not easy.

[MLCxH]

There appears to be a lot of analysis of the GF's motives but should that really matter in what the best decision for Wolfman is?

In my opinion, there are two things that matter. The first is what does Wolfman want? Does he want to live together with his GF or not? I feel that is a personal decision to be made by him alone based on his preferences and his moral convictions. . The second is are there legal consequences to his decision especially long term ones?

[Ginger1]

I think the only
Time on this board is when it is pressured to divorced when the situation is harmful. And harmful could mean more than just physical abuse. There are emotionally and mentally harmful relationship.


MAny posters come here with the “ what do I do?!!l mindset. Truth is, no one can tell anyone what to do. We can say what we would do, or what we would suggest you should do, but beyond that, in the end, only the person on the other side knows what they should do and hopefully they come here and are armed with the tools and information to make .
decisions .

It’s very difficult to guide Wolfman for many reasons. One being that his story changes day by day. It’s all over the place, everyone is all
Over the place. And he always wants us to tell us what to do. Can’t do that either. He needs to decide if he wants a life with this woman, if she is who she says she is, etc. we can’t tell him. Its more complicated than most because he is in a situation where his girlfriend is Jekyll and Hyde according to this accounts and he has also lost his born daughter and is losing his born son. It’s a lot to take into account. We all know what we would have done prior to her getting pregnant when he was losing his kids. He didn’t do it and not he’s in a real pickle.

The best hope is the best outcome for his born children and his baby. While I completely don’t agree that what is best for the kids is two married parents no matter what the circumstances are ( IMHO, this could be one of the most harmful things in many circumstances if you ask adult kids) he has to come to a decision that will consider his born kids that are from
His divorce and his unborn child from his unwed girlfriend. Whatever his choices are should be at the top priority of both. Because kids aren’t puppies, if they go to a new home you don’t just move on a get new ones to replace them.

I certainly don’t envy anyone
Involved in this situation

[MrBrside]

My take on this is that WM lack of confidence in his decissions, or inability to make a firm decission has a major impact on the route his life is taking.

IMO, this is something he needs to take very seriously.. It is this lack of making a decission that see's him go around in circles on a daily basis, and the reason why his posts are so up, down and sideways..

WM,

You have stated that you want a family - that is your focus. You really need to take a long hard look at what that entails. I dont think the "family" life you a hoping for will fall into place any time soon.

Also, women like a confident man - they like a man who knows what he wants and makes / stands by decissions. I dont think im speaking out of turn when i say that a lack of confidence and decission making is often seen as a weekness by women.. And the jackel and hyde / cluster B type women love a week man - somebody they can manipulate ! - food for thought with your current GF.

[Wolfman]

Wow. Thank you everyone for your input. I have no idea where to begin. There was so many great point brought up by so many of you. First, I just want to say thank you all for taking time out of your busy schedules to help a confused man out. It means so much to me!!! Second, from the beginning I should have just said what would you guys do. I completely understand why so many of you get frustrated with me. I ask what to do and then don’t. I should have asked what your opinions were. I try to see everyone’s perspective and then make the best decision for me and the people around me. One of the things that I have confused you all is my up and down. That is part of my indecisiveness. The other part that has been confusing is my life for a long tome was very busy, and I wasn’t on here for a long time. So, I want sharing all the good and everything about my GF and my relationship. So, when I can back I painted a small picture of our relationship. Rightfully so, you all were speaking from just that part of our relationship, which I take responsibility for making that mistake. I should have talked about the entire relationship not just the rough patch we were in. Some of you brought up about me being a teacher and how would I treat a student or respond if they were behaving like me. I will tell you all what I tell them. It’s my job to give you the most amount of facts and information as I can. It’s your job to make an informed decision, I can’t make it for you only you can make the final decision.

I am going to have to write a a few posts, there was so much great information and point of views in all of your posts.

One part that I want to clear up first. I apologize for making it seem like my GF did nothing. She was a flight attendant for 5 years flying all around the world. COVID his so she was furloughed, so she went out and found another job close to where we lived. Then that shut down due to COVID. From there she went on unemployment. With the unemployment and the extra COVID money she was getting it didn’t make sense for her to go back to work. If she could she would go back to flying but her company is not flying in the US at this current time. I am also the one who asked her to move in with me, not her. She was very hesitant about doing that. I convinced her. We were together for 9 months before she moved in. Back in May or June I was just so crazy about her. We talked about getting engaged by the end of the summer. So in her mind why protect herself if we are talking about getting engaged/married. I felt the same. Then July and August came and so much $hit hit the fan, with my ex, children, mom and dad. It took a huge toll on our relationship.

Gotta run more to come. I hope this helps a little to see where we come from:

[MLCxH]

I am also the one who asked her to move in with me, not her. She was very hesitant about doing that. I convinced her. We were together for 9 months before she moved in. Back in May or June I was just so crazy about her. We talked about getting engaged by the end of the summer. So in her mind why protect herself if we are talking about getting engaged/married. I felt the same.

I guess this explains why she was so upset when you refused to get engaged after she got pregnant. Sigh

[sandi2]

At the end of the day, I think a person has to do what they believe is the right thing. Listening to others voice their viewpoints can be helpful in emotional stressful situations. If those viewpoints don't match your belief system, you have to decide what is the best decision for you and your children (including this baby).

Since you've told us the seriousness of your indecisiveness, I have understood you a little better. It must have a negative affect on not just you, but those involved with you. Some things in life, such as choosing a color of paint, doesn't call for a person to rely upon whatever it is that guides or directs his soul, consciousness, and heart. However, when it comes to life changing/altering decisions......a person needs wisdom, and especially, to know his own values and principles. Even then, it can be very difficult, b/c you are dealing with lives. It's hard to set emotions aside, maybe impossible in some cases, but IMHO, we have to make those type of decisions based on what we believe is right. Everyone won't agree with the same moral/ethical code you may have, but it is not about doing what someone else wants. It's about your integrity, honor, belief system, etc. Sometimes, our problem in making decisions is that we want to please someone else, and really don't want them to be upset at us.

I hope in the weeks to come, the two of you can just get along and keep the drama down. That might help you come to an easier decision. Have you tried getting through the days without mentioning marriage or counseling? Does she bring up the subject of marriage most days? I do think she feels pressure and that's partly why she's pressuring you to marry her. If she didn't want or plan to get pregnant, she's having a rude awakening. Both of you are, I would imagine. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but I think any woman who is pregnant has the need to feel safe, protected, and to know she and the baby will be taken care of. Some women don't get those assurances, but they still have that natural need, b/c she is entering her most vulnerable state (other than when she actually gives birth). Now, I didn't say all of that to make you feel more pressure to marry her. I'm just sharing what I believe are the natural needs or instinct, so to speak, that comes along with the pregnancy. It's kind of like an animal that starts nesting, or searching for a safe place for its offspring. I am still a bit suspicious of her not showing her true self until she gets pregnant, and now trying to manipulate/pressure you into marrying her. Even if that's the case, I still believe pregnant women have innate needs that drive some of her actions. I'm not trying to excuse away all of her behavior, but after reading your previous post where you told us more about the dating and moving in together, it kind of sounds as if you might have misled her......which wasn't at all how I perceived your other posts. It doesn't change your situation, but I don't see her in quite the same light in which you had been painting. I mean, you almost sound like two different people at times, but maybe that's just me. So, moving along......

Does her parents know she's expecting a baby? B/c I think you said something about that being a source of her pressure to get married before the baby is born. Whether or not it is true, or she's simply using it to manipulate you, IDK. Does her parents give emotional support to their daughter? Would they cut her out of their lives, if she wasn't married? That seems pretty drastic in today's world, but who knows? Sorry, I'm probably saying things completely unnecessary at this point.

You sure have a lot to consider, and I don't envy you a bit.

((hugs))

P.S. Has she started her new job?

[IHCLACS]

Just who I was looking for and thinking about how you doing Wolfie long time no see

[Wolfman]

hi Sandi,

(Sorry Wolf to hijack)

Why would you have freaked if you were already living with the man? I mean, would it have been due to finances and the responsibility of being a single mom? If I'm understanding you correctly, you had no qualms about living together outside of marriage. I guess it's difficult for me to understand how it would be a necessity to live together before even becoming engaged, but pregnancy would bring a different moral code into the relationship. And if it's not based on morals, then what is it?

I guess it is a moral thing for me. Again, I'm not religious, but I had never seen divorce as an option and have only slowly come around to it from constant pressure on this board, which is weird as a "divorce busting" board but that is neither here nor there. I feel strongly about giving children, if you choose to have them, the best possible environment and for me, that would mean parents who are married to each other, to the extent that is under your control. I know plenty of people who have kids together and aren't married. That is their choice and I don't judge. It just isn't what I had always imagined for my own life.

May I have felt that way too. Divorce is not an option. I wasn’t always happy with my ex but I felt like I had to stick it out for the children. I feel that kids should have both parents. I think everyone has an idea what family is. I believe it’s being married with the kids. Don’t get me wrong, if there is drug abuse, physical abuse those sort of things are a no go for me or would be good for the children. Just my opinion, we are too quick to “replace” people who aren’t working out like they are supposed to. We have become too desensitized to the idea of divorce. I honestly thought before my divorce it was “no big deal” because I saw and heard about it all the time. Keep in mind for me too, no one in my family ever got divorced or did I have any friends growing up that came from divorced family’s. I am only going by what I saw and heard in the media. I just don’t think it’s fair for the children, to bounce back and forth between homes, to have no stability. So for me I truly want it to work for me and my GF, I don’t want to have more kids without stability. So May I am kinda on your boat with that. Oh and you are not hijacking at all. I love all the commentary.

I am going to address each one of your posts separately.

[Wolfman]

Thanks for responding, May. I try to learn from others on the board, and that's why I'm trying to understand your thinking.

I have been thinking about this just recently, how some people may feel a bit pressured. I don't think it's intended, but in trying to help someone through their pain, it may be perceived as pressuring. I do believe we all speak from a place of experience, directly or indirectly. It does bother me, however, to know you have felt pressured by the board. Some of us speak rather bluntly, and it may sound as if we are being harsh, or maybe superimposing our views on someone else. However, what does it accomplish if the other person can't freely make their decisions based on the information they are given? It's their life, and we are suppose to be a support group. Sometimes, we might need to be reminded, lest we get carried away with trying to get them to see our own views.
((hugs)

I don’t mind the blunt speaking. It just bothers me when people insult others. We are all different and live our lives differently. I just like to get other people’s advice because sometimes when you are in the thick of things you don’t see everything. I don’t want anyone to sugar coat anything for me. I want the truth and I want it straight forward. I completely understand why some of you get frustrated with me. I am just trying to put everything together from what I am going through, to things I read, to the advice from this board. Again, I apologize for coming on here and not giving the whole story. Sometimes on here I feel like that people’s point of view is everything and we must listen. I was on other marriage saving websites at the beginning and some of their views were the complete opposite of what is told here. Which can make things confusing. So, I try to hear everyone out and then make my decision. Sorry if I made it sound like tell me what to do, and then I didn’t do it. That is frustrating. I should have phrased it differently.
Gotta run. Oh and Sandi my GF has another job and started Monday.

[SteveLW]

hi Sandi,

(Sorry Wolf to hijack)

Why would you have freaked if you were already living with the man? I mean, would it have been due to finances and the responsibility of being a single mom? If I'm understanding you correctly, you had no qualms about living together outside of marriage. I guess it's difficult for me to understand how it would be a necessity to live together before even becoming engaged, but pregnancy would bring a different moral code into the relationship. And if it's not based on morals, then what is it?

I guess it is a moral thing for me. Again, I'm not religious, but I had never seen divorce as an option and have only slowly come around to it from constant pressure on this board, which is weird as a "divorce busting" board but that is neither here nor there. I feel strongly about giving children, if you choose to have them, the best possible environment and for me, that would mean parents who are married to each other, to the extent that is under your control. I know plenty of people who have kids together and aren't married. That is their choice and I don't judge. It just isn't what I had always imagined for my own life.

May I have felt that way too. Divorce is not an option. I wasn’t always happy with my ex but I felt like I had to stick it out for the children. I feel that kids should have both parents. I think everyone has an idea what family is. I believe it’s being married with the kids. Don’t get me wrong, if there is drug abuse, physical abuse those sort of things are a no go for me or would be good for the children. Just my opinion, we are too quick to “replace” people who aren’t working out like they are supposed to. We have become too desensitized to the idea of divorce. I honestly thought before my divorce it was “no big deal” because I saw and heard about it all the time. Keep in mind for me too, no one in my family ever got divorced or did I have any friends growing up that came from divorced family’s. I am only going by what I saw and heard in the media. I just don’t think it’s fair for the children, to bounce back and forth between homes, to have no stability. So for me I truly want it to work for me and my GF, I don’t want to have more kids without stability. So May I am kinda on your boat with that. Oh and you are not hijacking at all. I love all the commentary.

I am going to address each one of your posts separately.

My only thing with this is that making bad decisions on top of bad decisions only complicates things. Read the story of David and Bathsheeba from the Bible. It is a cautionary tale.

Also you brought a baby into a world of instability by getting your GF pregnant. That was an unstable relationship, from what I can tell mostly based on sex, and you using sex to self-medicate at the loss of your W. So to say now you want to provide that child stability, that ship has sailed! My W's parents are divorce since she was a kid. Then remarried, with step-brothers and sisters involved. To have people come into your life every other weekend for your childhood is not stability. The idea that you could ever provide this child traditional stability like elude to in your quoted post is a pipe-dream.

And I can almost guarantee that this relationship will be fraught with severe ups and downs for however long it lasts, and has little hope of being long-term. The odds, and history, are severely stacked against you.

Good luck Scott, you've got difficult days ahead.

[Wolfman]

Just to note... many many flight attendants are furloughed or out of a job right now. I have a friend who is a flight attendant with a ton of seniority-- been flying for 20 plus years. She's furloughed and depressed. Her husband is still employed so they aren't going hungry, but if she was completely dependent on her own earnings-- she'd be in trouble. And this is a person who a year ago was jetting off to international destinations and bringing friends, getting facials in Korea and shopping in Hong Kong because... well, why not? That was her job and her lifestyle, which has all now come crashing down. And, many of the jobs that flight attendant skills transfer to easily (customer facing retail, hotels, restaurants, etc.) are also all unavailable right now with tons of people out of work in those industries as well.

As somebody who works for a major airline, I can attest to this. Over 50% of our employees took LOAs for 1 month-1 year. Then, nearly 40% of our employees took the out or early retirement. The ones of us left are working 30 hours/week until things get back to normal. The airlines are taking a massive hit, and a flight attendant just might be destitute at the moment.

I'm not sure what advice to give Wolfman. I'll just wish him the best. What he and his GF are going through is not easy.

Thank you Harvey. She was recasted when she could not go back to work. She was living the life flying all over the world and getting paid to do it. She was also nice enough to take me with her a few times and bonus she pulled me up to first class on those flights. I never flew first class before, and man, it was amazing, she definitely spoiled me.

[Wolfman]

There appears to be a lot of analysis of the GF's motives but should that really matter in what the best decision for Wolfman is?

In my opinion, there are two things that matter. The first is what does Wolfman want? Does he want to live together with his GF or not? I feel that is a personal decision to be made by him alone based on his preferences and his moral convictions. . The second is are there legal consequences to his decision especially long term ones?

Not going to lie. After my divorce now that is something I am worried about. I never thought about that with my first marriage. But now, that will be something on my mind, always. No matter who I marry. The financial hit really stunk. So going forward that is something I will always think about. That’s aspect of divorce scarred me. Something I really need to think about.

[Wolfman]

Just who I was looking for and thinking about how you doing Wolfie long time no see

Hey buddy how have you been? Haven’t heard from you in a while. How is your situation?

Hope everyone had a great thanksgiving. I know if you are here it could have been a tough day, hope you all made it through.

[IHCLACS]

Need to get more up to speed on WM's current situation. But if I were you WM. I would demand a paternity test from her and watch for a reaction. Trust their actions not their words. Put up some boundaries and rules on the relationship until further notice. Your rules. No co habitation until further notice. You got some big red flags of a chameleon and a potential NARC there buddy. Sounds like you fell for the ol bait and switch again and she is already giving you ultimatums. Don't let her emotionally manipulate you. Use logic and reason.

[Wolfman]

Hello everyone. I was gone for a while because I got a new phone and forgot my password. Look forward to catching up with everyone. A lot has happened. Looking forward to updating everyone soon.

[SteveLW]

Wolfman, welcome back. Give us an update.

[Wolfman]

It’s funny just how things work. So things between my GF and I have been great. We talk about everything and truly enjoying each other. She is really trying hard with my son. What do I mean by that, she talks to my son, having dinners together, plays with my son, just tried to be pleasant. Reason why I say try, it’s obvious his mom is bashing the other of us. The reason I feel like that. We will have a good day with him and the next time he will be miserable at first like he shouldn’t be happy then he sees we love him and love having him there, that by the time he leaves he is happy. My ex is miserable because he am going for custody of the children, so she is trying anything g in her power to get my son now to hate us.
Give you all another example of just how selfish she is. My son hasn’t played baseball in 3 years. My ex and I had these close friends(so close we are uncle and aunt to their kids and vice versa) but she wanted them to pick sides between her or I. They said they will remain neutral. Well she didn’t like that, so she blocked them on FB and refuses to talk to them anymore. Well this family asked my son if he wanted to play on their baseball team. My son said he would give it a shot. He played in a weekend tournament 4 weeks ago and now they are having once a week at night baseball training. Well when he is with his mom he “doesn’t want to go” to baseball. When he is with me he wants to go. Last week I had him, in the car he said, dad can we have a baseball catch and can I pitch to you. I said absolutely (I was a college pitcher). So we had a catch and I worked with him for a little over an hour. This was a Monday. He said he can’t wait for practice. Wednesday I picked him up and I said, don’t forget there is baseball practice tomorrow night. He said, I’m. It playing. I said how come? He replied, I’m not good. I said where is this coming from. The last time I took you the coach said what a good arm you have and they want you to pitch. He said I know I just don’t want to play anymore. I tried to be understanding, I said you are good, but if you really don’t want to play I will understand. He was just so angry that I even asked him about playing. Well that Thursday he was with his mom, he didn’t go to practice. He was with me yesterday and guess where we went, baseball practice. I just asked him if he wanted to go and that the coach told me they wanted him to work on pitching. While we were they he had a great time. My ex is absolutely destroying my children in every which way. She doesn’t want him to go because it’s with this family that she blocked and wanted them to choose. This is just one of the many incidents I will be catching everyone up on.
More to come have to run...

[SteveLW]

Wolfman, so your sons up and down couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that his mom and dad are split up and he has to shuttle between the two of them, their separate houses, and have to deal with a NEW mom on top of it? Or is it just all her poisoning him towards the two of you?

I'll hang up and listen.

[Wolfman]

Wolfman, so your sons up and down couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that his mom and dad are split up and he has to shuttle between the two of them, their separate houses, and have to deal with a NEW mom on top of it? Or is it just all her poisoning him towards the two of you?

I'll hang up and listen.

I am sure that is a part of it. Look I can’t explain what (because we are in court) I evidence of her bashing me and my girlfriend. Saying things like, you don’t have to listen to them, isn’t it better you don’t have to spend time with them, calling me a loser, she put tracking devices on their cell phones that I found. When I got into it, they were only turned on when they were with me, telling the kids to hide their cell phones from me, she took them to great adventure a while ago and told them not to tell me. So I would say there is a lot of brainwashing going on. That’s why I am taking her to court. Oh wait the best one was, I had a family plan with my daughter, a few months back she canceled her cell phone(I have no idea how she did it when it was in my name) I asked for the cell phone back. In front of the kids she asked me why I wanted the phone back I said because it’s in my name. She said I am not giving it to you and if I did I will erase everything off her phone, you don’t need to see what’s on her phone. This is what she says in front of my kids. That was the short version. She never gave it back and now I have to take her to small claims for that too. I have plenty of other stories. What do you think? Brainwashing? Parent alienation?

[LH19]

Wolf you and your X remind me of my friends parents. They D and both were focused only on themselves and the hatred for one another. Messed his brother and him up pretty bad. He’s super smart so has been successful but has battled depression his entire life. He’s brother is a complete loser who is 50 and lives of mommy still. The really sad part is they were both adopted. When they say divorce destroys children this is exactly what they are talking about. The thing is that it isn’t the divorce that is doing it it’s the way the parents act afterwards.

If you are telling the truth W I’m really sorry you X acts this way.

[Mumin]

Sorry to hear that wolf! Be a rock and note things down. After you note things down forget about XW!!!

What about the baby wolf?

[sandi2]

Hey, Wolfman. I've been wondering about you. How is your daughter doing with the girlfriend sitch? Do your kids know about the baby?

[Wolfman]

Wolf you and your X remind me of my friends parents. They D and both were focused only on themselves and the hatred for one another. Messed his brother and him up pretty bad. He’s super smart so has been successful but has battled depression his entire life. He’s brother is a complete loser who is 50 and lives of mommy still. The really sad part is they were both adopted. When they say divorce destroys children this is exactly what they are talking about. The thing is that it isn’t the divorce that is doing it it’s the way the parents act afterwards.

If you are telling the truth W I’m really sorry you X acts this way.

I agree that this is not good at times. I keep communication only about the kids. But she doesn’t stop, she is always trying to sabotage my relationship with my children and say in appropriate things around them. Example: I was ringing the kids to our weekly psychologist meeting. It happened to be raining that day. I got there about 20 minutes early, so me and the 2 kids sat in the car. She pulls up 2 cars down and comes over to my car while it’s drizzling. My daughter hops out to see her mom. My son didn’t want to get out in the rain. She cane over to the front driver side of my car and said, “give me my son.” He said hi mom, and I said he will say hello inside (for her saying hello is a hug). She replied, “it’s my day give me my son.” I replied, “the td not your day, it’s raining and he will say hello to you inside.” He next response was just terrible. She said, “let’s ask him who he wants to be with.” I said don’t ask our son to choose, enough with this conversation.” Well she stormed off and my son then felt bad. He just felt terrible. I said to him it was ok buddy, mommy and daddy both love you very much and we know you love both of us. We waited a few more minutes and then went inside. I told this to the psychologist, where he called her out on it. She said, well maybe I shouldn’t have done that. MAYBE??? Ugh.

Sorry to hear that wolf! Be a rock and note things down. After you note things down forget about XW!!!

What about the baby wolf?

Baby wolf is doing well. She is 6 months and very excited. We have been setting up the nursery. Had a sit down with the psychologist, my ex, and kids about breaking the news to them. First he made me tell my ex, where she did not look happy. Then he had me tell each individual kid. That did not go over well. There is a lot more to the story that I will put on here another day. My girlfriend is amazing, she drinks plenty of water, she are tons of fruits and veggies, and all organic. Looking forward to the birth.

Hey, Wolfman. I've been wondering about you. How is your daughter doing with the girlfriend sitch? Do your kids know about the baby?

No change with daughter and girlfriend. My daughter has taken it a step further now saying my home gives her anxiety. The psychologist actually came to my home with my daughter, without my GF there to try and get her to go into my home. You believe my D wouldn’t even take one step up on the porch, even with the psychologist there. He actually got frustrated and left after 10 minutes. She would not budge, he asked her to at least come to the first step of the porch with him. She just kept refusing. He asked her what is she afraid of, and she just kept saying she wasn’t doing it. From the million articles I read on parent alienation, this is it. If my daughter ever acknowledges me, my home or my GF, WELL, she would be going against her mother and that is a big problem. My daughter and I have been going to the psychologist for 7 months and have made 0 progress.
For Christmas I took my D, S and GF out to dinner on Christmas Eve. The psychologist recommended it. And honestly I’m telling all of you, I was pissed. I am Italian and Christmas Eve is a big day especially when it comes to dinner, all seafood. Instead we went out to a Hibachi. I tried to make the most of it because it was for my D. Well it took her 10 minutes to get in the car. She cried in her moms driveway fro 10 minutes about going to dinner with us. Then at dinner she refused to eat and made my S very uncomfortable. More to come...

[SteveLW]

Wolf, I guess my only feedback is to try to keep your interactions with her in front of the kids and about the kids above board. It is easy to fall into the trap of reacting in kind, but that is not in your kids best interests. You cannot control your X, and she sounds like a real piece of work, but your kids will look back with discernment about how their parents acted. If they see her bad behavior and that you reacted with as much grace and dignity as possible, that is what they will take with them.

My original response to your post was to make you aware that while your X's behavior isn't helping things, you need to be sensitive to your kids' perception of what is going on in their lives. They see you with a live in girlfriend (a new "mom" in their lives). Further they are facing the unknown of having their dad be a father to a new child with this live-in GF, and what that will mean to them in regard to their relationship with you. Lots of kids have seen their parents move on with new people, father new children, and treat the kids from their first marriage, um, differently. So please be sensitive to that since your kids are in very difficult age categories for dealing with these kinds of things.

Sorry you have to deal with a psycho XW, no one signs up for that. But remember you will be judged based on your actions, not hers.

[Wolfman]

Thanks Steve. I am trying to keep my cool with her for the sake of the kids. It's sad, because i recognize the damage she is doing to my children. She is even cutting out some of my kids friends. For example, A mom text me 2 weeks ago that my ex found out that she came to my home so that her son and my son could play, they are in the same class. So, this mom text me that my ex blocked her on FB and will not return any text messages or calls, all because she came to my house. Another dad just text me a couple of days ago that he reached out to my ex to see if my son wanted to go there for the super bowl. He was having a few of his son's friends coming over and would like my son to be there. She didn't even respond. This is the type of person I am dealing with.

Here is a ridiculous story for everyone. Me, my ex and the psychologist were talking about how to encourage a relationship between my D and I. Of course all my ex says how she promotes it (I want to barf) but she isn't. She then goes on to say the psychologist that when she comes to my home I don't have the lights on or sometimes I shut them off when she arrives to pick up my son and that it causes her anxiety and she doesn't feel comfortable. Side note when I bought my home there were no blinds on the windows and you can see right into my home from the street, I didn't want her to see into my home. So yes i would shut them off when she arrived and then let my son go. The psychologist asked me if i would leave the lights on when she got there I said sure. (Right after this I went out and purchased blinds) Then he calls my D in. To make a long story short at the end my D says, when we pull up to dads house he turns the lights off and that it gives her anxiety. I just replied wow that is interesting. First, how can turning off the lights in the home when they are parked in the street and i let my S out to go with his mom cause anxiety and she doesn't feel comfortable. Literally word for word what her mom had said, keep in mind when my ex said this my D was in the waiting room. What are the chances my D said exactly the same thing as her mom. That shutting off the lights causes anxiety and makes her uncomfortable. This is the garbage I am dealing with. My ex became and absolute nightmare and is only hurting my children. Like I said i have plenty of stories like this. Little by little my poor children are just being mentally destroyed. This is one of the many reasons i am taking my ex to court for custody.

[sandi2]

It's unbelievable how some people are so vindictive toward their ex, that they are willing to mess up any chance for their children to grow into healthy, normal adults. We just don't know how much this type of abuse happens around the world. I don't know how you stand it.

((hugs))

[Traveler]

To make a long story short at the end my D says, when we pull up to dads house he turns the lights off and that it gives her anxiety. I just replied wow that is interesting. First, how can turning off the lights in the home when they are parked in the street and i let my S out to go with his mom cause anxiety and she doesn't feel comfortable. Literally word for word what her mom had said, keep in mind when my ex said this my D was in the waiting room. What are the chances my D said exactly the same thing as her mom. That shutting off the lights causes anxiety and makes her uncomfortable. This is the garbage I am dealing with.

I wonder if your ex-wife is actively coaching your D, or perhaps she gets uncomfortable when you turn all the lights off and her comments/reactions rub off on your D. Either way, not fun. It sounds like you're making a change! How did you respond to your D--defensively (asking if it were real), inquisitively (asking why it made her anxious), and/or re-assuringly (letting her know you'd change it for her)? How did she respond? I hope as messed up as this was, your interactions led to more closeness rather than more separation. Being apart from your D must be incredibly hard, and I love that you're working so hard to fix it. Stay strong!

[Ready2Change]

Good luck.

[Wolfman]

Hello everyone. It’s been a while. Just wanted to say hi and a little update. Things have been great between GF and I, as you all know we went through a rough patch, but we are through that and really understand each other so much more and just enjoying each other. My son is pretty good and my GF and son have been really getting along. Still in therapy with my d. Wednesday was the first time she had nothing bad to say about me to the therapist, she actually said everything is fine. I know I still have a ways to go but I was so happy to hear that. I just love my kids so much!!! Thank you all for helping me get through some really hard times. I hope that I can try and help others not to make the mistakes I have made. 2 weeks I go to court to fight for custody of my children. The poisoning my ex has done is bad, hoping to undo it. Anyway happy Friday to everyone. I also guess I will switch out of newcomers and go over to life after the big D.whoops surviving the big D.

[Traveler]

Hi Wolfman,

I look forward to you joining us over there! The one quirk is the "Edit" button doesn't work, so type carefully!! Glad to hear things have stabilized with your girlfriend, your D says "it's fine"--hell, my teenager would complain about her chores or that we don't have more desserts--and your court date's coming. Good update.

[sandi2]

2 weeks I go to court to fight for custody of my children. The poisoning my ex has done is bad, hoping to undo it.

Good luck, Wolfman. Let us hear how it goes.

[Wolfman]

Good morning everyone. I had court yesterday and what a disaster. I have been preparing or this for about a year and spent thousands of dollars. My ex’s lawyer pulled a real good one. 2 weeks ago she filed a petition for sole custody. In there her reasons were are you ready for the ridiculous lies, my daughter as suicide ideation (yet neither on of the therapists has ever told me that and I ask them all the time how she is doing), that I am mentally and emotionally abusive to my children( I just took my kids to the city and my son upstate) that a physically abused her in front of the kids (never happened), and I saved the last for best, that I encourage my GF to belittle and put my children down. Are you f kidding me!!!??? My lawyer got wind of this petition 10 minutes before we were going into court. He went to the court clerks office and she did file it but the court did not process it in a timely fashion. So, my lawyer did not get a copy of this sooner. My lawyer said we need time to sort all this bs out. He said he was going to ask to delay it so we can prepare. Well, when we went into court her lawyer pushed for us to proceed and it’s not her fault the court did not process this faster. My lawyer did not feel comfortable putting me on the stand now. So, her lawyer said she will drop the petition if we drop ours. My ex has 42 contempt’s of court (42 days I was supposed to have my daughter and didn’t) plus me going for custody because I have screen shots of how my ex bashed me to my daughter. My lawyer dropped ours too, so she walked out of there Scott free and on top of it, her lawyer and my child’s lawyer said my daughter needs a break from me so they all agreed 2 weeks would be good for my daughter. So for the next 2 weeks I am not to see or contact my daughter. I am beyond angry, sad, depressed. 1. That my ex violated our divorce decree and got away Scott free.
2. I can’t see my daughter for 2 weeks.
I have a question for all of you. I have spoke to a bunch of friends about my daughter. She is 13 do I just completely back off after the 2 weeks and wait for her to “wake” up and come to me or do I continue to force the issue?
I am complete shock that this all happened this way. My lawyer also said we could recipe the petition and go after her again, her lawyer will do the same. Do I let this go or do I refile and maybe get a new lawyer? Thanks

[LH19]

Hey wolf I’m really sorry this is happening to your children. Your situation is why it is embedded in peoples heads that divorce is so bad for children. The reality is when two people can minimize their differences and put the children first divorce is not that bad and sometimes even better for the children.

Use DB principles with your daughter. Give her space and listen and validate her feelings. That’s all you can do right now.

I’m sorry.

[Wolfman]

Hey wolf I’m really sorry this is happening to your children. Your situation is why it is embedded in peoples heads that divorce is so bad for children. The reality is when two people can minimize their differences and put the children first divorce is not that bad and sometimes even better for the children.

Use DB principles with your daughter. Give her space and listen and validate her feelings. That’s all you can do right now.

I’m sorry.

Yeah it’s really hard. I will have no choice but to give her space at this point. It just hurts so much. Going through another loss in my life.

[LH19]

Yeah well as hard as it for you it’s harder on your children who have no choice in the mess. I wish you two could see that but you’re both so self absorbed. It’s too bad.

[job]

Please start a new thread. I am leaving this one open for now so that you can link this one to your new thread and vice versa. If you have difficulty linking both of them together, please let me know.

[Wolfman]

Please start a new thread. I am leaving this one open for now so that you can link this one to your new thread and vice versa. If you have difficulty linking both of them together, please let me know.

Ok.

[Wolfman]

https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2917532&#Post2917532

Here is the link to the new thread.