Original thread:
Separated but holding on for reconciliationRecap:
Me: 50
W: 47
S 16, D 13
M 28 years (1992)
Jan 2018 - BD
June 2019 - She moved out
May 2020 - Told me she will initiate D
My viewpoint: Met at university, got married about a year after finishing. We had a long time finding work, ended up deciding that whoever got a job first, the other person would move to where they are. I eventually secured a job six weeks out from our wedding. Went into a hugely busy job with long hours and many deadlines. Friends in same industry in similar situations. Felt trapped - family responsibilities, job expectations, difficulty in obtaining the role in the first place. Parents owned their own businesses; long hours etc part of my 'normal' life experience. Worked hard to support family, pay off mortgage and establish financial security. Mentally and physically fatigued a lot of the time. Downtime and time for self limited, neglected church and health. W seemed disinclined to do things together so relaxation activities were reading, watching TV, playing on the computer - but all done where I could be in the same room as W. Did the best I knew at the time but ignorant of love languages, held a 50/50 mindset and lacked a servant heart for my W. No discussions initiated by either about what we wanted out of life, how MR should look, where we wanted to live, etc. W very supportive always. Kisses, I love yous, etc every day to each other until "I want a divorce" BD. Did not see it coming, especially as W a faithful Christian all her life. I never thought either of us would consider it an option.
W viewpoint: Workaholic H largely absent, making her feel like she was not the priority. Boring home life, few holidays etc. Felt she was only wanted as a housekeeper. Family live far away in another state. Deep desire to see them thwarted by lack of money in early years. I don't love you --> I haven't loved you for years --> I never loved you --> I didn't even love you when we got married.
Last Thursday W asked me if I was attending the meeting on Saturday with our Pastor. I didn't know anything about a meeting, and said so. W then became apprehensive that they wanted to kick her butt. She said she was 'resigned' to losing her place in the music ministry over her decision to D me. W said that if they were going to kick her out of the church, I should be kicked out too. I told W I'm sure no one is being kicked out.
Out of nowhere W brought up the book of Malachi (the one in which God says "I hate divorce") and explained it was just a historical record of the time some Jewish men took foreign wives, etc. She then told me that Bible had been translated by men and a lot of scripture had been changed by the patriarchy in order to oppress women. I told her that if God is real then we have to trust Him to safeguard the accuracy of His word. What I didn't say was that it concerns me that W, who has always been a faithful believer, is now using arguments to discount scripture and place it as merely the (possibly inaccurate) testimony of men rather than the living Word. As someone else said to me, rather than alter her decision to line up with the Word, W has made an emotional decision and is looking for justification.
We actually had a laugh and a bit of a cry during our conversation and there was even a tiny bit of flirtiness/innuendo. During the talk W mentioned two things -
She thought it was 'strange' that I wanted to make love 'a lot' on our honeymoon, but never said anything about it at the time (or indeed, for the next 27 years).
She had felt suicidal at some point in the past few years and she was sure God wouldn't want her to be in a situation that made her feel that way. (I'm not sure when this happened, or for how long. I don't know if it was a passing thought or an intense period. Surely I would have noticed if it was a long period? It certainly would have been a wake-up call.) I found out W has also mentioned the suicidal thoughts moment/period to D13. I think W is laying groundwork for telling the kids she is going to D me.
That afternoon I saw W when she picked up the kids from home. She had texted the Pastor 'to confirm Joe is coming to the meeting'. He'd sent a long reply saying it was just a meeting with her. W gave me a glance at her phone to show how long the text message was. (I don't know what it said.) W said it was like getting a text from her father (W's dad told her we need to work on the marriage; W won't contact him any more). W said she felt she was going to get "thrown under a bus" at the meeting. W said "it's a bit weird talking to you about this stuff", which seemed positive. I did my best to listen and validate.
W said that she hasn't told the pastor everything as she doesn't want him to think she's a 'total cow'. W said she didn't love me when we got married but thought she would learn to, but never did. I encouraged her to speak openly to the pastor otherwise any advice he gives will be misguided. I asked W if she'd seen a counsellor (something she said she was going to do when she moved out). W said no.
W said the kids are unhappy with her for separating. She said she doesn't diss me to them so they put all the blame on her as they don't know all the terrible things I've done. (I get the feeling W has more things in her head that I've done that I don't know about. I remember W coming home one time in tears. I tried to comfort her and find out what was wrong. "I told DC about you, and now she's never going to speak to you again!" she said. I had no idea what I'd done and W would never tell me what she'd said to her friend. DC and her husband were great friends of ours and contact seemed to fizzle out after that. I did have a feeling that other people knew more than me about what was going on in our M.)
On Friday, the day following our conversation, W and I had to talk about S15's upcoming birthday. W let me know she'd talked to her mother about the meeting with the pastor and his message. (No surprise there.) W had joked to her mum that maybe she should bring me as a support person, and her mum had said "Why not?" W said she was unhappy with the pastor and his wife because they want us to work on reconciliation. W asked how she was meant to overlook the past. "Just pretend it didn't happen?"
We did the weekly handover of the kids on Saturday instead of Sunday as the kids had some activities going on. As a result W had a roast she planned for their Saturday dinner going spare and invited us all back for lunch on Sunday. W didn't talk to me much and sat with D13 between us.
A very good (Christian) friend of W's contacted me to say that she had been talking things over with W. She has a big heart for W and is concerned for her. W apparently commented that she couldn't back down on D because her mother knows what she's decided. I haven't asked friend to tell me any more (and I'm sure she wouldn't). I think she is concerned about the influence W's mum has on her decision-making.
One of W's family (not her dad) told me I was "the best thing that ever happened to her". They won't tell W though.
hi Joe,
I have only read bits of your sitch so I just wanted to stop by and offer my support. It gives me the feeling many things are going on in your W's head and that is a place where you probably do not want to get dragged into.
I just wanted to make a quick comment to you. I have been a workaholic and neglected my W during a much shorter M of 5 years but a big mistake I did was I also abandoned my beliefs. I think this is a really good time to review the core values we christians have and use them as fuel for our motivation, patience, to forgive yourself and to grow.
Just wanted to add this comment. I am sure you are a much more mature man than I am and you are doing a great job at DBing. Keep up your attitude and peace and I send you hugs.
Hi Pack_19, thank you for your kinds words.
Perhaps I excuse myself too much but the overworking situation was something I got caught in, then couldn't escape. I won't go into details since my posts are long enough anyway, but it was like I was trapped in quicksand - something I couldn't get out of by myself, but only with help from outside it. A few people said the "no one lies on their deathbed wishing they'd spent more time in the office" thing to me, but that wasn't practical help. It was like someone picnicking beside the quicksand saying "When are you getting out so you can join us for sandwiches?"
Wandering away from my faith went hand in hand with this. It wasn't that I believed any less, but I had so much less time on the weekend, and was constantly fatigued (particularly mentally), that sleeping in on a Sunday seemed a better idea than going to church. I encouraged W to go but she didn't want to go without me, so it had a detrimental effect on her too.
My W went interstate to visit her mother in January 2018. While she was away, the Lord said to me it was the eleventh hour, but that He was going to change things. Immediately my work situation changed and I was able to go home at a normal time. No more weekend work, no more long hours, after years and years of it. A week later my W returned and told me she wanted a D.
Since then, and up until WFH/covid 19 lockdown, I made it home by just after 6pm every day (with only one exception in the last 2.5 years I think, which I cleared in advance with W).
For a long time I have been thinking about making a post here about my perspectives and challenges on D and DB as a Christian, but I've been cautious knowing that this is not particularly a religious website and also knowing that even Christians have different interpretations about these things.
hi Joe!
Perhaps I excuse myself too much but the overworking situation was something I got caught in, then couldn't escape. I won't go into details since my posts are long enough anyway, but it was like I was trapped in quicksand - something I couldn't get out of by myself, but only with help from outside it. A few people said the "no one lies on their deathbed wishing they'd spent more time in the office" thing to me, but that wasn't practical help. It was like someone picnicking beside the quicksand saying "When are you getting out so you can join us for sandwiches?"
Boy can I relate to this! Always thinking when I have THE better job, when I get THE great position, when I get out of rental I will have so much more time to enjoy my M and family . I was also told by some colleagues the only thing that matters at the end of the day was her and children. My ears where full or creap.
My W went interstate to visit her mother in January 2018. While she was away, the Lord said to me it was the eleventh hour, but that He was going to change things. Immediately my work situation changed and I was able to go home at a normal time. No more weekend work, no more long hours, after years and years of it. A week later my W returned and told me she wanted a D.
In my case it was short after I found that job, that great company that all of a sudden gave me the freedom to really balance job with family quality time. Before that I had a 1 hour commute which damaged a lot the status of things. Anyways, I think this a great lesson, there will never be better times. You need to make the better times HAPPEN. I am very sorry you had to live through this Joe, I do not know your W or your current situation but I want to encourage you to keep hope.
For a long time I have been thinking about making a post here about my perspectives and challenges on D and DB as a Christian, but I've been cautious knowing that this is not particularly a religious website and also knowing that even Christians have different interpretations about these things.
My vows are alive in my heart. This is not me living a fairy tale belief, it is what my heart is pushing me to do. I have made the mistake of mentioning to W (ouch me!) only to hear that "oh yeah! now you are a devote Christian" or "You ignored your vows for 5 years, do not judge me as if you had better values, my family values are WAY better than yours". I guess is something we need to carry internally. When I think about the PIES, in the spiritual sense I have determined to be more optimistic and cheerful and to develop a better R with God. I encourage you Joe to make a list of the things you want to improve spiritually. I review mine daily.
Hugs! Pack
Thanks Pack. I had a look at your sitch and there is a lot that I can relate to. I'm so glad S6 is having such a great time with you. That is definitely one of those things that you are doing that is just for him and you. Keep at it!
My vows are alive in my heart. This is not me living a fairy tale belief, it is what my heart is pushing me to do. I have made the mistake of mentioning to W (ouch me!) only to hear that "oh yeah! now you are a devote Christian" or "You ignored your vows for 5 years, do not judge me as if you had better values, my family values are WAY better than yours". I guess is something we need to carry internally.
My W said the same, something like "sure you believe in the importance of M now; where was that in the past?" I told her it was always there, but my understanding has grown more now. I knew M was important, but know it even more now. I knew it was important to God, but understand why even more now. Etc. Although God can look at the inside, people get an impression looking at the outside. Ditto changes - God works from the inside out (heart, mind, attitudes), and the fruit of that is not always immediately visible.
My W said the same, something like "sure you believe in the importance of M now; where was that in the past?" I told her it was always there, but my understanding has grown more now. I knew M was important, but know it even more now. I knew it was important to God, but understand why even more now. Etc. Although God can look at the inside, people get an impression looking at the outside. Ditto changes - God works from the inside out (heart, mind, attitudes), and the fruit of that is not always immediately visible.
And what can you answer? If you say "yes my priorities where all over the place, I know I hurt you but I always loved you", then you already "killed the M" as W told me. If you say "That is not true, I might have failed but my M was always there and I held onto my vows", then you are an insensitive animal who cannot understand how you failed and hurt her.
The topic is just a massive dynamite bomb that can only explode in your hands, shame I did not listen to Sandi and I had to live through the explosion. How can you be a committed partner when the other is halfway out the door? does that make you unreasonable? Can one shelter a M and family through this? When I joined the forum I was convinced it was possible. Not that I have done a good job DBing (I am getting there), but I am not sure one person can change any dynamics when the other person has dressed you up in black and made you the worst enemy. Let's release the pressure, focus on ourselves and hope for the best.
W has come home to collect birth certificate etc so she can file for D. She says we have to "cut all ties".
Sorry to hear that Joe.
I know that it can come as a shock even though the writing was on the wall.
But this doesn’t change anything in regards to DBing. Couples can and do reconcile after divorce.
Keep following the DB principles - GAL, detach, and start kicking ass in life.
W has come home to collect birth certificate etc so she can file for D. She says we have to "cut all ties".
So, let me ask you, what do you think this changes?
So, let me ask you, what do you think this changes?
Good question, Steve.
It doesn't change anything, really. W is still doing what she said at the outset. I still need to continue to DB: detach, GAL, work on being AMOAFWL, continue to avoid pursuit and rescue. I am still hoping for (eventual) reconciliation, but am keeping in mind that this is a marathon not a sprint.
The more steps away though, the further to come back, so although its not surprising I wish it wasn't happening.
So, let me ask you, what do you think this changes?
Good question, Steve.
It doesn't change anything, really. W is still doing what she said at the outset. I still need to continue to DB: detach, GAL, work on being AMOAFWL, continue to avoid pursuit and rescue. I am still hoping for (eventual) reconciliation, but am keeping in mind that this is a marathon not a sprint.
The more steps away though, the further to come back, so although its not surprising I wish it wasn't happening.
Good answer, except for that last sentence. She is no further away than she's ever been. You just haven't faced that reality in your own mind until now.
She is no further away than she's ever been.
In a way, that almost sounds positive - "No further away".
Sometimes it seemed like things were getting better (especially in mid-September last year) but now my W is proving to be a master of detachment and GAL.
She is no further away than she's ever been.
In a way, that almost sounds positive - "No further away".
Sometimes it seemed like things were getting better (especially in mid-September last year) but now my W is proving to be a master of detachment and GAL.
Eh, it isn't the same. Detachment <> being unplugged. She unplugged, not detached. Also, she's not GAL, she's doing what she wants to do. Lots of LBSs think "my WAS is DBing better than I am!" The point of DBing is to prepare the LBS for what comes next.....whether R or D. Your WAW is already ready for what comes next! She's ready to move on. The GAL and detaching is for you to do the same.
The point of DBing is to prepare the LBS for what comes next.....whether R or D.
I'm still aiming for R. (Like everyone else here, I suppose!)
The point of DBing is to prepare the LBS for what comes next.....whether R or D.
I'm still aiming for R. (Like everyone else here, I suppose!)
What I can tell you, is rarely is that the outcome when the are aiming for it. When you really let go and get to a point where you are ready to move on, then the opportunity may arise.
When you really let go and get to a point where you are ready to move on, then the opportunity may arise.
The 'moving on' is the part I struggle with. As a Christian I don't believe in divorce or remarriage, so I'm in for a single life if my W and I never reconcile. (I won't divert the forum by going into the scriptures behind that, but google 'john piper divorce remarriage position paper' for a succinct but thorough analysis that pretty much explains it.)
Perhaps I shouldn't be so hung up on wording, perhaps I should just take Steve's words as 'ready to live life solo'.
When you really let go and get to a point where you are ready to move on, then the opportunity may arise.
The 'moving on' is the part I struggle with. As a Christian I don't believe in divorce or remarriage, so I'm in for a single life if my W and I never reconcile. (I won't divert the forum by going into the scriptures behind that, but google 'john piper divorce remarriage position paper' for a succinct but thorough analysis that pretty much explains it.)
Perhaps I shouldn't be so hung up on wording, perhaps I should just take Steve's words as 'ready to live life solo'.
I too do not believe in divorce and remarriage due to the scriptures. The only exception being in the case of sexual sin (referred to as fornication in the KJV). So I understand. I was in the same situation as you. Even though my W had an EA (a gray area since there was no physical contact), I was looking at a life of being single due to my deeply held spiritual beliefs. Even with that, I had to let go, let her go, let her figure herself out, and focus on myself. If I had continued to pursue her I believe I would be divorced, and single, today. However, my faith in God was such that I knew that no matter what happened, I was going to be ok! Trust Him!
So in this single life are you able to have sex?
So in this single life are you able to have sex?
Our belief is that sex is for people within the bounds of marriage.
Please note, I am not casting judgement on anyone else's choices. This is my personal belief. I shared it here to show Joe that I related to his beliefs on the subject.
So in this single life are you able to have sex?
Good question. I would assume not. If remarrying is off the table, I would think sex outside of marriage would be a big no no too...
I don't want to get into a religion discussion, but I will say this. I think it is silly to deprive yourself of having a happy, healthy relationship in the future based on some ancient scripture. I'm Christian myself, and I believe God wants us to be happy. He gave us free will, and with that comes mistakes. It doesn't seem right to be forced to lived a single life because of a bad choices made by either individual in the relationship. You can't force someone to be with you either. So if they up and leave and you've done nothing wrong, you're doomed to a single existence. I'm not down with that, and I don't think God is either. Not telling anyone what to do, just my 2 cents...
I was looking at a life of being single due to my deeply held spiritual beliefs. Even with that, I had to let go, let her go, let her figure herself out, and focus on myself. If I had continued to pursue her I believe I would be divorced, and single, today. However, my faith in God was such that I knew that no matter what happened, I was going to be ok! Trust Him!
Thanks Steve. W is on her own journey.
So in this single life are you able to have sex?
No.
This is my personal belief. I shared it here to show Joe that I related to his beliefs on the subject.
Appreciated. Thanks Steve.
Tomorrow is our 28th wedding anniversary.
Hi Joe,
I just saw your thread here. H and I passed our 28th in March.
H is still living here, at home in our D25's bedroom. On our anniversary, there was no acknowledgement from either of us.
My family ( who still is unaware ) did contact me to tell me Happy Anniversary but that was it. With stay at home orders, especially in March, it has been somewhat easy to avoid people.
That evening, our D25 wanted to watch a movie, and we all watched. H has since retreated back into his "fantasy life" and has OW2 out of the country, which again, thanks to the pandemic, he is unable to travel to see her.
It is hard. I know. Try to do something for yourself, you can acknowledge to yourself it is an important day, but it definitely is different.
Hang in there,
PLC
JoeDredd - Tomorrow is my 7th. It's gotta be even harder being your 28th. Hang in there, and good luck with your sitch.
Thanks PLC and BL42.
It's Father's Day here tomorrow. S16 called to make some arrangements (the kids are with W this week). W was nearby as S16 checked some details with her, but she didn't say a word to me so I didn't say anything either.
W dropped off the kids and their gear early this afternoon. She helped carry some of the things inside. D13 was in a cross mood and gave some lip to her mother. I naturally told her not to disrespect her mother, as W simultaneously said something similar. W then snapped at me that she didn't need me to help her correct her (meaning our!) daughter. I can't remember my reply to that now, something about both of us being D13s parents. W said some other angry remark back to me and then left.
Opened Father's Day cards and gift from the kids. First time celebrating without W being part of it, though she must've helped them buy the things or at least get to the shops.
S16 took me to see 'Tenet' at the movies for Father's Day (meaning I drove and I paid, of course!). : D
Made dinner for the three of us and played some games with D13 until their bedtime. End of Father's Day.
Other happenings:
Our pastor tried to organise a meeting with W but it was cancelled. I don't think they will be meeting any more.
I've been told W has been searching out old girlfriends who are divorced. I assume W is seeking reinforcement/approval of her position.
W also apparently intends to leave our church once the covid lockdown is over.
Our pastor told me that he and his wife had been 'increasingly mystified' over our situation each time they met up with W to discuss things. He said our problems were largely the kind of things that beset most married couples in one way or another, and could be resolved or at least worked on with enough understanding to make the marriage work. It was nice to hear this from someone who has heard from both sides, but the reality is it does not change my W's perspective so neither does it change our current trajactory.
My Father in Law called me at the start of the week to see how I was doing. He said W had written to him a few weeks ago. He mentioned her email included things like "you don't know what I've been through all these years" and "I'm only just coming to terms with what really happened in our marriage". W also made a comment that we get along much better now than when we were together. ?? - we are barely interacting.
My Father in Law called me at the start of the week to see how I was doing. He said W had written to him a few weeks ago. He mentioned her email included things like "you don't know what I've been through all these years" and "I'm only just coming to terms with what really happened in our marriage". W also made a comment that we get along much better now than when we were together. ?? - we are barely interacting.
Remember, there is THE truth...then there is HER truth. LBSs get a bloody forehead bashing it against the wall trying to reconcile the two. Just except that this is her new reality, and move on.
How did the call with him go? Was this him confronting you over her accusations? Was it him not believing what she was telling him either? Or was it just a "I heard her side, I want to hear your side"?
Be very careful interacting with her family. Remember, it is her dad so he is going to likely be sympathetic to her even if he doesn't like what she is doing.
Remember, there is THE truth...then there is HER truth. LBSs get a bloody forehead bashing it against the wall trying to reconcile the two. Just except that this is her new reality, and move on.
Yes, you are right. I do try to see her side of things, and listen to learn, but the 'why's are a mystery sometimes. Forehead bashing, as you say. I still remember what LH19 said to me back in January, "You are trying to use logic and reason with an emotional human being."
How did the call with him go? Was this him confronting you over her accusations? Was it him not believing what she was telling him either? Or was it just a "I heard her side, I want to hear your side"?
FIL had reached out to W in a text message. W responded by email, including the comments I mentioned. FIL was disbelieving (in a surprised way) of much of it. He didn't call me to get my response but perhaps someone to listen to his defence of what W said about him.
FIL is a committed Christian and is firmly of the opinion we should be working on reconciliation. He has tried to talk to W about this. FIL sent an initial text message to W months ago. W felt it was judgemental. She read it to me (I couldn't see anything unloving or uneven about it). FIL tried to call W a few days later but she was so cross about it she hung up on him. W told me FIL has tried to call since. She told him that she was busy and would call later (with no intention of doing so). Now, several months later FIL has reached out again with another text message. W replied to say he was being unloving and unsupportive of her, and not what a father should be, and included the comments he mentioned to me. FIL sees his loving duty as telling W what scripture requires, whereas W wants to FIL to support her position whatever it is.
FIL is very much for 'us' (as opposed to being just for W or just for me). Being in the same camp as FIL is a double-edged sword however because W's relationship with FIL is rather rocky. I have to make sure his contact with me and my interactions with him can't be misinterpreted by W as if we are in cahoots with each other.
W has a very strong relationship with her mother. W's parents have been divorced a very long time (since before we were married). They do not get along.
Joey D,
You need to tell your FIL to back off and but out. This just upsets her and gives her more negative emotions towards your marriage. You do not want to feed the beast right now.
W dropped S16 off after a Parent-Teacher evening (only one parent allowed due to COVID). She told me about the feedback from the teachers. I could sense another shoe was about to drop. She told me it had been another year, now almost 2 years since she had moved out. She said she is a completely different person from when she left and "the happiest [she's] ever been." W said she will file for D in the next few days. Her original plan was to do a court order, which involves us sorting things out ourselves, getting a lawyer each to review it and then the court approves it. It's the cheapest way to do things. She told me she doesn't have time for that, she's going to go through a lawyer. W said we could share the lawyer and do it together, or I could get my own. W is giving me a few days to decide.
W went interstate with an old friend who was promoting her self-help book at a conference. The book is all about how she escaped her first marriage, which she says was full of emotional abuse, gaslighting, silent treatment, anger, etc. Last year W told her father "I'm only just coming to terms with what really went on in our marriage". I didn't know what that meant but I guess it comes out of this. I would never have thought any of that stuff went on, just disagreements and frustration and differing views.
Some WASs stick to their history revisionism for a long time. That way they can justify their actions. Regardless, it is her narrative, true or false, no reason to dwell on it.
However, sincerely hope you'll get your own lawyer. If she's going down the path of claiming emotional abuse, the D has the potential to get ugly. Protect yourself!!
I would never have thought any of that stuff went on, just disagreements and frustration and differing views.
Joe sorry to hear about your latest update. As Steve wisely said make sure you get a lawyer to protect yourself. I can promise you that your STBXW has some valid points and it all wasn't just disagreements and frustration and differing views. This has to be examined an acknowledged so that it isn't an issue in future relationships. Are you familiar with Nice Guy Syndrome? Most guys on here had/have it. As much as we would love to believe it was all sunshine and rainbows and we were completely innocent it is never the case. Dig deep and figure out your role in the demise of your marriage and slowly and methodically work to prove upon it.
Your life isn't over you are just closing a chapter of a full book that has not been completely written.
Sorry to hear your WAS is following through with the divorce. I agree with what others have said...get a lawyer to protect yourself. Also agree with what LH said. There are always two sides to everything. Whether or not your disagreements reached the level that they can be defined as emotionally abusive is a matter of opinion, I suppose. Often people assume that it means there has to have been a lot of yelling and name calling for that to be the case. It’s not. There are other more subtle ways. The silent treatment, subtle put downs, insisting on my way or the highway without giving the other person a chance to talk, etc... Abuse is really the other person’s experience of it. You don’t have to mean to abuse someone for it to happen. If you grow up in a family where that is the norm, you may not even recognize it. Your W may be over exaggerating to justify her departure but then again, she may not be. Regardless, self-examination is always an important process so I encourage you to engage in it. Take responsibility for your part in it and fix the parts that need fixing. It will be important for your kids that you do so. (((HUGS)))
I can promise you that your STBXW has some valid points and it all wasn't just disagreements and frustration and differing views. This has to be examined an acknowledged so that it isn't an issue in future relationships. Are you familiar with Nice Guy Syndrome? Most guys on here had/have it. As much as we would love to believe it was all sunshine and rainbows and we were completely innocent it is never the case. Dig deep and figure out your role in the demise of your marriage and slowly and methodically work to prove upon it.
excellent post!
I can promise you that your STBXW has some valid points and it all wasn't just disagreements and frustration and differing views. This has to be examined an acknowledged so that it isn't an issue in future relationships. Are you familiar with Nice Guy Syndrome? Most guys on here had/have it. As much as we would love to believe it was all sunshine and rainbows and we were completely innocent it is never the case. Dig deep and figure out your role in the demise of your marriage and slowly and methodically work to prove upon it.
excellent post!
Thanks Pinn! I may have some relevance on this board after all lol.
JoeDredd,
Her original plan was to do a court order, which involves us sorting things out ourselves, getting a lawyer each to review it and then the court approves it. It's the cheapest way to do things. She told me she doesn't have time for that, she's going to go through a lawyer. W said we could share the lawyer and do it together, or I could get my own. W is giving me a few days to decide.
Forget whatever she said originally, it doesn't matter. If she's getting a lawyer you should get your own. DO NOT on what her lawyers say - it is an
adversarial process - and they WILL trump up their argument to scare and bully you if you don't have your own. I felt strong after reading my lawyer's responses to my wife and couldn't help but feeling a bit riled up / shaken after reading her L's responses. Get your own lawyer to be the buffer and advise you what's legal vs. what is complete BS.
W went interstate with an old friend who was promoting her self-help book at a conference. The book is all about how she escaped her first marriage, which she says was full of emotional abuse, gaslighting, silent treatment, anger, etc. Last year W told her father "I'm only just coming to terms with what really went on in our marriage". I didn't know what that meant but I guess it comes out of this. I would never have thought any of that stuff went on, just disagreements and frustration and differing views.
She literally wrote a book? Wow, that's hurtful. Sorry.
She literally wrote a book? Wow, that's hurtful. Sorry.
Sorry, I've expressed myself badly there. Her friend has written a book, and I think the friend is a strong influence on my wife, saying "It's okay to leave your marriage, I've done it already, you can too."
My W was asked to take a break from the singing ministry at our church because she was telling everyone she had separated from me and how good that was. She took it as a sign from God that she should leave the church! She now drives an hour each way on Sundays to attend a church where this other lady is. D14 goes with her. D14 will no longer go to our old church, telling me that everyone there is "fake". I don't think this is an opinion D14 has formed on her own.
My feeling was (note, was) that my W has read the book written by her friend and then retrospectively mapped things in it back onto our relationship, even if they weren't there - sort of like the old jokes about people looking up symptoms on the internet/in home remedy books and suddenly thinking they have all sorts of illnesses. My W had already done this back in 2018, when she showed me a book that 'proved' she had a cold because of things I had done in the past. W had made a comment to her dad months ago about "only just coming to terms with what went on in our marriage". It mystified me at the time but when I learned about the book, it seemed to me it must be the explanation.
I do agree with the above posts about my W having some valid points. I'll come back and post on that later today.
I agree that we as humans typically find things to support our truths. My truth may not be the same as your truth though we attended the same event at the same time under the same conditions.
Your W may have just been looking for the validation she was already seeking.
Moving my son home from college we drive a highway that skirts the edge of town my STBXH currently resides in... it takes all of 5 min or less to do this stretch of highway. Now, imagine on a random Friday at noon at the edge of this town for a few short minutes... who of all people in this big bustling town not only is right next to me in traffic at this very moment but takes the time to text me to tell me he just saw me!!!! We have no business items essentially and it had been 9 days since our last contact.
A week or so later I asked about something random to him. I get multiple text messages back. About how he just wants to move on and how he sees all these "bad" signs when he has been in my town many months ago. Now, all but 1 visit he was here on his own personal business or that of OW... I got descriptions of how he was cut off in traffic, how he was rear ended, how he had been run off the road, ((and the one visit regarding me --- he arrived in town for court date and it had been postponed of which I had not been notified either, so a waste of his time.)) THIS ^^^^ This is the reason he will not consider recon, though that is not what I was texting him about... its just what came out of his mouth.
So these were ALL BAD signs of us.... in his mind.
But he was looking to recon... they could have been good signs... when I am not with you I get run off the road... when I am not with you nothing goes my way.
This man was soooo happy to have randomly run into me on the highway that he was texting multiple times --- that he thinks he just saw me on X road 20min ago... was it me??? Wouldn't then that be GOOD sign making all those other signs months ago fade in comparison???
The answer is no.
Truth is your wife was already having those feelings. She just happen to find someone who validated those feelings. You can blame the woman or book and believe they are the reason she is gone... but she probably would have found some other source to validate her and there are definitely plenty out there.
I feel your pain.
My STBXH texted that he is filling his life with healthy relationships with the best of friends and occasionally family so much so that he has finally quit smoking. ((he had quit when we met and got together... but stress of his job, his kids and being tired all the time he fell back into it... I was angry over it and pulled away. I tried to find a neutral place where I did stop nagging for the last 2yr... sigh))
Keep the focus on you. You cannot control her. Support your daughter and try validating her to understand her current thoughts on the old church versus the new church.
HUGS!