I don't want a divorce II ---- NEW THREAD Part 2

[KitCat]

Previous thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885077&page=1

[KitCat]

R2C -

You asked me to clarify :He said he would go out tonight if its the one thing I need to move on from him. He knows its a deal breaker. He isn't looking for anyone... he just doesn't want me.

He meant he will go out and screw someone tonight if that is what I need from him to move on.

[KitCat]

There is no way that any of us can foresee the future and anything can happen between now and a divorce. He thinks the grass is greener over on the other side of the fence. He thinks that by moving closer to work that everything will be roses and cupcakes...but he's not thinking about what it is going to cost to start over (again), i.e., the cooking, cleaning, laundry and the list goes on. He will have all of his own bills and you will not be there to support him emotionally, physically or financially.

This is true.

But the commute is such a huge burden on him right now. Its killing him... literally.

He had a fun weekend out with old friends. He said he never laughed so hard. He doesn't have anything like that with me here... nothing.

He said in his head initially he wanted S. We get it legalized and we spend time apart and heal. And, he would look at things between us. I agreed to the S but asked if we could be adults and not see/sleep with other people? I was asking if there were boundaries? THAT MADE HIM ANGRY - he saw that as my controlling nature kicking in and NOW that was off the table.

Right now it he wants a D. He wants a clean break. He says if there are no ties he will not hate me and he won't block my number. We could be friends. I could call if I needed help.

He said I was a goddess but at some point that changed. He is not sure where. He apologized for some his contributions. He is numb and won't give the opportunity. Why trust me with another promise for it to only be good for 2 weeks? He said never again. He wants me to find happiness with someone else. That would make him happy.

He wanted to feel more than a paycheck and along drive. While I handled all the paperwork and finances. I went on and on about how we are a team... yet I was the worst team player. He just wanted more involvement in the finances and in the last few years it was just me telling him what was happening. I thought the motorcycle and the boat would appease him... make him happy and they did for awhile. He should have been able to decide for himself if we could afford the bike. It shouldn't have been me.

He is numb. He knows that he never wants to risk me not being the person I know that I used to be with him.

[SteveLW]

KC,

Lots of he said. He said. He said.

Right now you can't believe anything he says. Nothing. Everything he says it's for effect. Or has a purpose. An agenda.

I asked you before, do you really want to be married to someone that only loves you thin and if he can spend limitlessly? If you lose weight, let him but anything he wants, after a few years you'd be the one walking away.

KC this is your second go around. You should be much better at DBing then this. You should spend some GAL time reading the book again. In my sitches I became a knowledge sponge. I was reading 2-3 books a month. You can do this. What didn't kill is makes us stronger.

[Thornton]

Kit,

I’ve been watching your story unfold and I have to be honest with you, not to hurt you, but to help prepare you. Your H is already having an affair. All the signs are there. And I’ve been on this forum long enough to see these how these things unfold, almost identically to other people’s sitches.

You must detach. You have to take your focus on H, and start protecting not only your finances etc, but your heart.

Ps... I’ve also seen quite a few posters here reconcile with their spouse after an affair. So if an affair isn’t a deal breaker for you, listen to the vets and follow their advice.

Thorn

[KitCat]

KC,

Lots of he said. He said. He said.

Right now you can't believe anything he says. Nothing. Everything he says it's for effect. Or has a purpose. An agenda.

What's his agenda?

He is done. He has spent years driving to a home where he has felt unloved. He has been spending time with friends and enjoying every minute of it. He has no joy here. He feels we can't even make a simple trip an hour away without arguing.

I pushed him out the door. Why did I act jealous??? He is not having an A. He has been faithful but he feels he has been married to a bully.

Now he is being the bully -- he stated when it was first in his head he just wanted Separation to figure things out, now he wants divorce. Cut and dry. He states he will be working next weekend but after that will be gone all weekend. He is looking to still be here until the divorce or separation is finalized.

He said if I leave him alone - don't go snooping, be respectful and I don't screw him over then he will happily come over and help me paint the whole house and even help me move out and help S18 move to college.

I asked if the respect would go both ways... he said trust me. I won't be calling you. I will leave you alone. I will not be doing any booty calls. You need to heal and move on.

This all came down to 1) not showing him enough affection, 2) my actions in doing work on back yard didn't show I was ever going to leave, 3) I don't listen to him... its true, he has been after met to do X,Y,Z and suddenly I'm on board with getting it down. I pictured getting the yard done up nice... When we were talking to the fence people about options he seemed like he was changing his mind so I just said we can have dirt brought in... that led to more landscaping and he is like A - I cut him off and B - more money is being spent.

I asked you before, do you really want to be married to someone that only loves you thin and if he can spend limitlessly? If you lose weight, let him but anything he wants, after a few years you'd be the one walking away.

That's the anger. If I was giving him the affection he wanted the 28lb wouldn't mattter. If I wasn't so controlling with the money... If I wasn't so controlling in general. He feels like a prisoner.

If I could be the woman he married... but he is determined I cannot ever be... I cannot change and he will not allow himself the disappointment of one more lost promise.

KC this is your second go around. You should be much better at DBing then this. You should spend some GAL time reading the book again. In my sitches I became a knowledge sponge. I was reading 2-3 books a month. You can do this. What didn't kill is makes us stronger.

You are right... I should be WAY better at this... Why am I not???? I read tons of books last time. Maybe the part of me that knows him so well knows that he is past the point of no return??? We've been on this hard path but last time he didn't say a word to his parents. He has now told them. Maybe I know he cannot be DB a second time?

There are lots of success stories here... I was one of them but I failed to keep my marriage going...

His goal is to be out of the house in 30-60 days??? But, then he states he won't leave until a separation agreement or divorce agreement is final, but I believe in this state there is a 6mo cooling off period between separation and divorce. This is where I get confused by what he says but frankly he is confused by what he says. He is sleep deprived.

I can't believe that he tells me that I was a goddess... he has never called me that before. I wish he would have. I now think of all those things in my head that I should have been saying to him... I was looking forward to motorcycle riding with him and fishing on the boat...

Now if I say - hey, I found some sweet back roads to take with the bike to this lovely restaurant with home made pan fried chicken. It sounds contrite and a ploy to get him to stay rather than say I was looking forward to continuing this life venture with you.

[SteveLW]

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

[KitCat]

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

I have it all figured out???

I have nothing figured out... I sat at the table all teary eyed as he made his demands. I tried to validate and I tried to make it about he was feeling and not me but not so good at the last part.

He is driving to work feeling vindicated that he was right all along - she finally realizes what she has lost after all this time.

He is leaving for work and I tell him this is not what I want... he says he knows.

PLEASE - how can I get him to see that Goddess that is still inside of me???

[may22]

PLEASE - how can I get him to see that Goddess that is still inside of me???

Be the goddess for YOU, not for him. Find her inside and feed and nourish her. What do you do that makes you feel like the goddess inside? Find one thing and do it! Then another, and another. But do it for you, not so he can see it. I think that is the key.

[KitCat]

PLEASE - how can I get him to see that Goddess that is still inside of me???

Be the goddess for YOU, not for him. Find her inside and feed and nourish her. What do you do that makes you feel like the goddess inside? Find one thing and do it! Then another, and another. But do it for you, not so he can see it. I think that is the key.

Yeah, I know that deep down.

He never called me a goddess before... I mean not that I am one now... but wow... he thought I was a goddess.

I'm the same person... goddess and all... maybe few more layers.

I guess this falls into one of those categories of done is done?

I've mastered the dont call dont text... guess I need to master saying hello in the morning with a smile and not wait to see how he responds. When he leaves if I am here I need to wish him a fun night.

I need to stop asking questions. He will tell me when the appt is and I will contact atty for at least a free consult.

He knows what I want... I will not keep asking in alternative formats.

[KitCat]

I'm all over the place.

Why if he hates the drive and is so miserable is he still here?

He clearly has friends to stay with, his parents. Why keep here and say you will stay until S of D is final?

Why say you want amicable and then start changing where your check is deposited to? You say one minute you've talked into an atty and have divorce papers drawn up... the next you haven't made appt. We will go together.

You say you haven't changed any beneficiary on your acct or life insurance and dont plan to do so... I'm sole beneficiary. Your not changing your will. You feel even if we file you can do so anytime.... but yet you hadn't planned on it?

You changed your acct passwords. You are not being transparent.

You are sleep deprived and have memory issues sometimes.

BELIEVE NOTHING THEY SAY AND ONLY 50% OF WHAT THEY

I was struggling today. On the phone in another room. You came out clearly I've woken you up again and you get a bowl AND 2 spoons and you invite me to eat sherbet with you. Is it guilt?


I sat.and.ate.with you.

You dont want to see my tears. It's the wrong emotion for where we are at... too little to late.

I know you are all trying to be helpful and supportive and you see me spinning circles. I just need lots more words of encouragement... I know what I need 180s and GAL. It's all I can do to try to get to.work tomorrow. I feel.so alone.

[Traveler]

Hi KitCat,

I feel.so alone.

For what it’s with, we see you, we’re listening, and we care. You alone are in the specific h3ll of your situation, but not alone here in dealing with the grief of a walk away spouse.

[KitCat]

Hi KitCat,

I feel.so alone.

For what it’s with, we see you, we’re listening, and we care. You alone are in the specific h3ll of your situation, but not alone here in dealing with the grief of a walk away spouse.

Thank you...

I vacillate between spending the money for a DB phone coach to perhaps I need in patient care.

[KitCat]

I have to stop pushing.

I have to act "as if"

I have to accept that D is coming.

I have to accept that I should speak to a lawyer.

[KitCat]

Not much sleep. Called my mom at 6am. Not sure I could get out of bed and go to work today.

H comes home. I'm on the phone... he gets a call and takes to other room.

When we are both off the phone H asks me about work yesterday - will there be consequences for me having not gone back yesterday. I said in 30yr I should be allowed a 1/2 day for mental health but it can be an issue. My employer is out of town and ultimately not much can happen if I am not there.

I then asked my H about his day while he is unpacking cooler. He talks about it. He says more than I thought he would. He is exhausted as am I. When it clear he is finished talking I go to another room.

I heard my H talking in the bathroom... I hadn't heard him so I walked back in and asked if he had said anything... he kept his back to me and said don't worry about it. I let it go.

He showers and goes to bed. He leaves the HOMES MAGAZINE at his spot on the kitchen table. Its not a shock as I already knew he was looking.

My 180 today was being polite and friendly.

So I have to keep it friendly and happy here. I have to detach and act as if.

I am taking it minute by minute... would appreciate some words to encourage me in the right direction.

[SteveLW]

BELIEVE NOTHING THEY SAY AND ONLY 50% OF WHAT THEY

Still not seeing that you believe this. You still take what he says and does to heart. You asked me "what agenda" when I mentioned everything he says is for effect and has an agenda behind it, you asked "what agenda?"

You can't see through the leaving the financial papers at the table for days? Or leaving the Homes mag there? To me it is obvious is full of smoke and mirrors right now. Likely he doesn't even know what he wants. I can tell you no man wants to split all of his assets by 1/2. No man wants to give up his cushy dual income lifestyle.

You spend a lot of your time on here convincing yourself that he is done. And the reasons why he is done. (Which is why I said it sounded like you have it all figured out.)

KC, your interactions with him were decent. I would have liked to see you NOT ask him about his day. And not go back to find out what he said. If it was important he'd find you and repeat it.

KC you need to just go back to DBing basics. GAL like a mad woman! Keep self-improving, become the best you can be. And work on detaching. Where his words and deeds roll off your back like water off of a duck.

[KitCat]

Still not seeing that you believe this. You still take what he says and does to heart. You asked me "what agenda" when I mentioned everything he says is for effect and has an agenda behind it, you asked "what agenda?"

You can't see through the leaving the financial papers at the table for days? Or leaving the Homes mag there? To me it is obvious is full of smoke and mirrors right now. Likely he doesn't even know what he wants. I can tell you no man wants to split all of his assets by 1/2. No man wants to give up his cushy dual income lifestyle.

It is cushy for sure. And, he went on last night that it will be a struggle for both of us when we split and we have to tighten our belts. BUT - even then he has the freedom to make his own choices on what truck he buys, if he can afford, etc. He doesn't want to answer to me.

He comes home and he picks up after himself. Puts his cooler away inside of leaving on the counter. This is a 180 for him. I'd like to say thank you for picking up the dirty clothes - because he picked up mine too. I didn't though.

You spend a lot of your time on here convincing yourself that he is done. And the reasons why he is done. (Which is why I said it sounded like you have it all figured out.)

Guilt. Realization that he is justified in a lot of his complaints - not all. I DB'd him once. Why can't I just get to business again??? I didn't keep up my end of things.. the things I did that got his attention and he stayed have appeared to be smoke screens on his part. Last time he was saying all the words... this time he is doing all the action with those words.

KC, your interactions with him were decent. I would have liked to see you NOT ask him about his day. And not go back to find out what he said. If it was important he'd find you and repeat it.

I'm trying to be decent and pleasant and to act what if. I most definitely should not have gone back into the bathroom. Shoot for all I know he may have been talking to the dog. That came across as needy.

He still sees me as pursuing.

KC you need to just go back to DBing basics. GAL like a mad woman! Keep self-improving, become the best you can be. And work on detaching. Where his words and deeds roll off your back like water off of a duck.

I'm trying.

[KitCat]

I just broke down in my office... probably panic attack and depression.

I have a Dr appt at noon and not coming back again to work.

[oceangrl]

Okay. He is jerking you around back and forth.

First throwing you a bone: eat sherbet with me. Next time (in an upbeat tone): No thanks! I'm good for the night!
Being nice to you when it suits him.

Rejecting you: reminding you of your sins and how you are't HIS perfect goddess anymore. Leaving home magazines and papers on the table. Does that seem very nice to you? Does that seem something a friend would do?

KitCat, you made mistakes. Take a look at the above and see that he is being and a**hole right now. And it works for him to have you carry all the baggage around and wear the "worst spouse ever" crown. It's time to take it off. And throw it away.

You will feel sorrow. Grief. Anger. It's okay to process that. I have to remind myself there is a fine line between my feeling the very real sorrow of my situation and living there and letting it run my life.

Today is my birthday. My birthday wish is for you to STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP.

Have a new morning routine. Wake up. Feel your feelings. And then I want you to visualize you at your best self. And then find some mantras that work for you. You can borrow mine if you want to. I tell myself:
Yes, this is hard. But I can do this because I am amazing.
I am worthy of love. Especially from myself.
Yes, he does not choose me, which is hard. But I choose myself, I will take care of myself, so I will be okay.
He is abandoning me. Thank goodness I Will never abandon myself.
I also had to be brutal about him too. When your husband is hiding on the phone, roll your eyes and think, "what a loser." yeah i know. Not nice. But he is not being nice to you and that will help you flip the script.

When you feel that hurt, feel it and then pick yourself back up. When we hit something so horrible we have an inner child within us that needs to be taken care of. Tell that little girl inside of you that this hurts, but she is safe. You will take care of her. That may sound a little woo woo, but it helps.

He isn't being a nice husband. He's not being a friend. He's not even treating you like he would a stranger on the street. He is jerking you around and you are a plan b. Do you want to be someone's plan b? Changing his passwords is a bad sign. Don't let it destroy you. Roll your eyes and think "whatever loser. I'm so glad I don't treat people like that."

We are here for you today. You are not alone.

[Thornton]

Hey Kit,

I am all too familiar with the panic attacks etc when I was going through my sitch early on. They are relentless. I’m glad you are seeing your doctor, hopefully he/she can give you something to take the edge off.

In the meantime, what are you doing to help with your anxiety? For me, I turned to the gym and started working out very hard. It helped with the anxiety and I also got in really good shape.

I also started IC which helped as well.

So sorry you are struggling. You will survive this.

Thorn

[SteveLW]

Guilt. Realization that he is justified in a lot of his complaints - not all. I DB'd him once. Why can't I just get to business again??? I didn't keep up my end of things.. the things I did that got his attention and he stayed have appeared to be smoke screens on his part. Last time he was saying all the words... this time he is doing all the action with those words.

Yep I get that. I was a horrible husband leading up to BD. But guess what, that doesn't justify what he is doing, or make it right. Unless you are physically abusive, cheating, or engaging in dangerous toxic behavior what he is doing is not justifiable. Own your actions that contributed to the problems in your marriage. Stop taking the blame for the choice he is making. Last I checked "For better or for worse" covers gaining 28 lbs, being a bit controlling, not being as affectionate as you could be, and not letting him spend you into the poor house. That is what MC is for. It in no way justifies pulling up stakes and bailing.

[KitCat]

Guilt. Realization that he is justified in a lot of his complaints - not all. I DB'd him once. Why can't I just get to business again??? I didn't keep up my end of things.. the things I did that got his attention and he stayed have appeared to be smoke screens on his part. Last time he was saying all the words... this time he is doing all the action with those words.

Yep I get that. I was a horrible husband leading up to BD. But guess what, that doesn't justify what he is doing, or make it right. Unless you are physically abusive, cheating, or engaging in dangerous toxic behavior what he is doing is not justifiable. Own your actions that contributed to the problems in your marriage. Stop taking the blame for the choice he is making. Last I checked "For better or for worse" covers gaining 28 lbs, being a bit controlling, not being as affectionate as you could be, and not letting him spend you into the poor house. That is what MC is for. It in no way justifies pulling up stakes and bailing.

I want to have hope.... I want to do the work....

[KitCat]

I came home... he is awake and rattling that the atty called and woke him up so he is very angry.

He tells me I have to get rid of the time share... he got us into that.

He is like I cant give health benefits if we divorce... how much is healthcare for you??? Idk. And he is angry at me.

I need to validate but I'm lost.. yes I know it must have been awful waiting for me to get life insurance... I got denied and had to wait... but then I got it.

But I'm just subdued. And he starts asking why I am on meds now...

[SteveLW]

Guilt. Realization that he is justified in a lot of his complaints - not all. I DB'd him once. Why can't I just get to business again??? I didn't keep up my end of things.. the things I did that got his attention and he stayed have appeared to be smoke screens on his part. Last time he was saying all the words... this time he is doing all the action with those words.

Yep I get that. I was a horrible husband leading up to BD. But guess what, that doesn't justify what he is doing, or make it right. Unless you are physically abusive, cheating, or engaging in dangerous toxic behavior what he is doing is not justifiable. Own your actions that contributed to the problems in your marriage. Stop taking the blame for the choice he is making. Last I checked "For better or for worse" covers gaining 28 lbs, being a bit controlling, not being as affectionate as you could be, and not letting him spend you into the poor house. That is what MC is for. It in no way justifies pulling up stakes and bailing.

I want to have hope.... I want to do the work....

That's fine. But you have to realize there is no magic bullet. We all come here wanting that. "Tell me what to say to fix this!" "Tell me what to do to fix this!" That is why LBSs spend so much time dissecting their sitch, looking for those things that you can change to turn it around. I get the impression that you think if:

1) You lose weight
2) Stop being controlling
3) Let him spend all the money he wants
4) Show him loads of affection

That he will come home one day and go, "You fixed it all! Let's walk into the sunset together holding hands."

Likely there are things at play here that have NOTHING.....NOTHING AT ALL to do with you.

SO yes, have hope. And yes do the work. But do the work for you. Not for him. Not to save the MR. Do the work so that your next R, whether with him or someone new, has the best chance of lasting the rest of your (or their) life.

[job]

KC,

You can't fix him. You can't control him...but you can fix yourself and only control you and how you react to his behavior. Go back and re-read all of the postings to you. You have been given a lot of sage advice. It's time now to breathe, sit down and re-read all of the info that people have been posting to you. The one thing that I will say is that you and your h may be playing the distancer/pursuer dance. One minute he's nice to you and you come closer to him and then bam! He's back to being a distant person.

I do not think for one minute that you should be shouldering all of the blame of this mess. As I have stated several times, he has major issues and I think that once things get comfortable, he looks for excuses to leave the marriage...and yes, there very well could be an affair partner, i.e, on the job, i.e., physical or emotional affair. He is saying and doing the exact same things he did the last time around 2 years ago.

He is using any and all excuses to walk away from this relationship. The fact that you've put on weight is no excuse and yes, you can lose the weight. What about him? I'm sure he's changed quite a bit in the last two years. No one stays the same and there are things that we can do to improve ourselves....but we do the improvements for us...not them. You have to be happy within your own skin. It is not your job to make him happy. Happiness comes from within and this man hasn't been happy for a very, very long time. IT IS NOT YOU....IT IS HIM.

Get off the crazy train and start detaching even more so. You are allowing him to hold you hostage in an emotional cage. Don't allow this man to do that. You are a person and should be treated with respect.

KC, we can post to you all day long, but until you are ready to get off that crazy train and really and truly focus on you and what you need to get through each day...nothing will change.

[Thornton]

^^^ That's great advice, Job.

[KitCat]

LONG DAY -----

Left work a hot mess and went to Dr and I'm now on medication lets see if this helps.

After leaving H to deal with timeshare alone I went to meet with my mom. It was loud where we were and H called. I told him I couldn't hear him I would call later... that didn't work... he was like where are you? I didn't answer. Where are you? I just avoided the question. I told him I was cold standing outside trying to hear him.

I wouldn't answer his questions but I did let him know I have not been sleeping, with a great deal of hurt and a lot happening at work. Its temporary.

He went on to say that he was upset getting woken up by atty call and not able to go back to sleep and that he has a busy day tomorrow and was supposed to look at houses but 2 cancelled and he is not sure he likes his realtor. I just validated and said that must be very frustrating for you. But, I cut the call short and said I needed to go.

Had time with my mom.

Came home expecting H to be in bed but he is still up. He wants to talk. Great. He goes on to admit that the atty is tech his and if I have questions to write them down, etc. He will ask. I have told him I not sure its a good idea but he stated the atty is only to file and we will be doing grunt work. I'm really not wanting to get into it. He talks about plans for X, Y, Z... I'm on burnout.

He states he is sorry for the hurt he has caused me. He means it.

He said that I've shown him more respect in the last 2 weeks than in a long time. And, that ladies and gentlemen is proof from the worst DB'er on the boards in the last month that a 180 change no matter how small is noticed by your spouse.

Of course... it was followed up by I DON'T LOVE YOU.

He wants this over and done quickly. He just wants to move on.

I left him to go to bed. Started hanging with the dogs. We aren't doing anything unusal but he comes out of the room in a huff stating this is why he can't sleep when I am home we are all making too much noise. I said I'm sorry its been so difficult to sleep today but the puppy isn't getting enough exercise. I will pack up the dogs and go.

He said no and went back to bed. I quieted everyone down and settled down to read and he is back up and in the room I am in. He says he is just really frustrated that a house he was supposed to look at tomorrow cancelled due to flu. I reply that's unfortunate but it can be rescheduled as its not like it sold. He then complained about a lack of inventory in what he was looking for - I simply replied that the market will pick up in the spring. He goes back to bed again.

5min later he is back up and pacing. I probably shouldn't have done this but as I sat in another room I asked if he simply wanted to go have dinner and give himself something to do. He said no and I didn't bat an eye... I really didn't care. A few min later he asked if I was hungry. I said for something light/easy like chips and salsa. He asked if I were up to go get it as he wasn't up for getting out of his jams yet. I said fine and got dinner.

As we are eating he keeps going over the numbers. I stay up beat and let him lead but after awhile I said we are doing all this speculation. Let's wait for the bonus so we have an actual number to attach to things and in the meantime lets put these numbers to bed at least for few hours. I picked up everything that had been sitting at the spot on the table and moved it to the corner of the room.

He did dishes again for the day. I went to another room. He continued to flit about. I asked he if would be home for another 30min. He said he would but why. I said I'm going to work - his reply but you didn't work today. I said I was there a 1/2 day and there was an emergency that arrived as I left. I have been getting txt updates but I need to go. It will be a short trip.

When I got home he headed out and I did my own thing. He said I won't be back in the morning I've got houses to look at... Me: ok... feeling very whatever at the moment.

I came to the computer and found out I forgot to log out of facebook... he was reading my messages to a dear friend who has been my rock in this.. I feel violated. And a bit uneasy... This friend of mine allows me to vent in text messages to him because he knows what I am going through and he helps me see through the pain. My private thoughts and how I'm trying to make this less of a battleground. Nothing I can do about it now.

BELIEVE NOTHING HE SAYS AND ONLY 50% OF WHAT HE DOES

I'm going to settle into my jacuzzi tub for some me time.

[Traveler]

Hi KitCat,

He goes on to admit that the atty is tech his and if I have questions to write them down, etc. He will ask. I have told him I not sure its a good idea but he stated the atty is only to file and we will be doing grunt work.

He's retained an attorney to look out for his interests. I'd strongly consider hiring your own. Hiring an attorney isn't necessarily adversarial--it just ensures your interests and rights are protected.

I came to the computer and found out I forgot to log out of facebook... he was reading my messages to a dear friend who has been my rock in this.. I feel violated.

I bet. That sounds terrible, KitCat.

I'm going to settle into my jacuzzi tub for some me time.

Sounds like a wonderful plan. I almost want to "join" you--in my own tub for my own private time, of course! A bookstore or gym is more in-line with my personal goals tonight. Take care!

[KitCat]

Hi KitCat,

He goes on to admit that the atty is tech his and if I have questions to write them down, etc. He will ask. I have told him I not sure its a good idea but he stated the atty is only to file and we will be doing grunt work.

He's retained an attorney to look out for his interests. I'd strongly consider hiring your own. Hiring an attorney isn't necessarily adversarial--it just ensures your interests and rights are protected.

My mom made appt and paid 1/2 deposit on a b*ll buster for me. Its 4 weeks out so I have plenty of time to weigh all the pros and cons.

[SteveLW]

KC excellent DB progress today. Well done. The couple of slip ups (asking him to go eat, going and getting his food for him) were minor and you'll correct those as you get better at it. But all in all an excellent day if DBing. Also, give the meds time. Usually takes about 3 weeks to kick in.

[KitCat]

So in response to Job's post above... how well did I handle interactions with H?

Yes... he is nice to me I do become closer. I find it comforting and creates positive experience. I guess the positive interactions I thought would be consistency in predicting future behavior of how we treat on another. BUT, I see now I'm doing myself a disservice. That behavior just tells him where I an at. Willing to sit there for whatever spills my direction. I would have been better served to keep my distance and decline?

When he was up and down in and out of the bedroom I should have let him pace or fidget. Acknowledge anything he wanted to say to me... validate his feelings but stop offering phrases as the housing market will pick up.... it's my job to understand the way he feels... its not my job to make him better.

Give less info when leaving... honestly my job part took 10min... I spent the remaining 20min in a McD's parking lot giving myself space.

I should have not asked him if he wanted to get dinner... he wants to mope around the house that's on him.

I can honestly say that when I asked I really didnt care the answer. I was good either way and involved I what I was doing.

Well I did really good when out with my mom, telling him I was busy. Listening to him but not letting him dictate the convo which I ended first. I feel good about that

[KitCat]

Emotions suck today.

He wants to move on.

I want him back.

Today I will exercise, take the car in for service, and get my hair done. I will call my mom.

I will validate his experience today but I will offer no help or advice. I will not talk about the numbers today. I will continue to give him space. I will not bring up anything that will add more pressure.

[KitCat]

One thing that did happen yesterday when he was calling me and I was busy and trying to get off the phone.

He made a statement to the fact that this business of S or D and looking for houses and moving on wasn't going as he thought it would... it was harder than he thought.

I do remember validating briefly and then just frankly telling him I needed to go.

It was probably just a "pity me" moment but that combined with the comment about how I have been respecting him more recently makes me feel like maybe... just maybe his wall of numbness that he has created to shield his hurt might come down.

I'm still stuck-------------

He wants to move on...

I want him back......

BELIEVE NOTHING HE SAYS AND 50% OF WHAT HE DOES

[AnotherStander]

I'm still stuck-------------

He wants to move on...

I want him back......

The biggest problem is you want him back NOW. In reading through your thread on and off I get the sense that you've got a shot at recon down the road, your H is kind of a typical leave-now-come-back-later MLC type. The real question is do you have the patience to let him go for now and see how things play out later.

[KitCat]

The biggest problem is you want him back NOW. In reading through your thread on and off I get the sense that you've got a shot at recon down the road, your H is kind of a typical leave-now-come-back-later MLC type. The real question is do you have the patience to let him go for now and see how things play out later.

NAILED IT!

Patience is a skill I am very much lacking - always have. I am working on it.

But, it is the 100million dollar question. Do I have the patience to let him go for now and see how things play out??? I have this gut reaction that if I don't get this solved or on better terms before he is out the door then recon would be less likely. We would never see each other - no shared children, living and working in different cities. I'm not going to call or text because I need help with X, Y or Z. There would be no contact.

He discussed S versus D yesterday. Said S for a year and then D OR we do D and wait a year to file. He said he will do whatever I want. I said I would like S for year. He heavily sighed like he was annoyed but he asked me what I wanted so I didn't take his bait. He then said if we do that then we have to go over everything again to the D. I said that was okay and I was fine with that. He said he was not - he just wants it all over with now. I said I understood that is what he felt he needed. I just said I need a cooling off period and left it at that.

Am I supposed to just roll over and give him D???

[SteveLW]

To double down on what AS said. You really should flip this script and decide you DON'T want him back right now. More than let him go, jettison him. Become overly helpful and supportive in his house search etc. As I said, right now he is broken, and that is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to fix.

Further, on the "see how things play out later", make sure you have a good picture for what that looks like. In other words, make him earn his way back. If you don't give him conditions for return (IC, MC, etc) then if he does come back easily you are likely setting yourself up for another future BD.

[KitCat]

To double down on what AS said. You really should flip this script and decide you DON'T want him back right now. More than let him go, jettison him. Become overly helpful and supportive in his house search etc. As I said, right now he is broken, and that is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to fix.

Further, on the "see how things play out later", make sure you have a good picture for what that looks like. In other words, make him earn his way back. If you don't give him conditions for return (IC, MC, etc) then if he does come back easily you are likely setting yourself up for another future BD.

I am listening.

How does one decide I don't want him back.... when one does?

I have done my very best job in listening to him with the house stuff or that he downed 3 jumbo margaritas the other day... I assume when he was out with friends. I validate. I answer questions with just a simple ok and behave as detached as possible in his presence.

I'm working on getting my self worth back on track... I'm starting meds to get my crap under control. I'm exercising. I'm reaching out to friends I haven't had contact with with awhile... mostly because they were men and I was being respe6to my H. He doesn't like one of them for a decent reason.

I can act as if with H. He already knows that I dont want this so there is no need for me to say it again. I'm trying very hard to not be around when he is... I will just leave house and sit in a parking lot to have my own space if I have too.

We discussed why he is still coming home despite hating the drive. He said he could spend a night here or there at his parents... friends couches were only available on weekends. I said he should stop doing the drive as it was killing him. I would rather have him in the home... but it wasnt about my needs but his.

I'm trying but ultimately how much can I lie to myself... saying I dont want him when I do.

[Thornton]

I completely agree with Steve. Flip the script and "act as if" you have come to realize that you are going to be just fine without H. In fact, display that you have had an awakening and realize your life is going to be even better when he's gone.

Kit - I'm not with my ex anymore, but I was able to get her back a few times doing exactly what Steve just suggested. When my ex left me, each time I went complete and total NC. I acted like I realized things were going not just ok, but good. Eventually she would reach out after a few months and cry about how much she missed me.

[SteveLW]

I think you hit it with trying to get your self-esteem back. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS! I've said it before, I'll keep repeating it until you get it. Why are you okay with someone that only wants to be with you if you're thin enough? If you let him spend like a single guy? That acts like a 2 yearold if he doesn't get the affection he thinks he's entitled to? That can't handle a drive to and from work? Who is willing to move to "I want a S or D when he doesn't get his way?

You're married to a spoiled brat child of a man. Why are you ok with that?

So the question is not how do not want him, the question is why DO you want him. I think it's wrapped up in your lack of self-esteem. So focus on that. Get into IC. Let the meds start to work. Read books about self worth. Get your groove thang back.

The key is that you need to not want him back until he addresses his own shortcomings. You deserve better.

[KitCat]

Please know if I had more confidence in my body.. I would have never pulled away... he would have never been stabbed in the heart... he wouldn't have gone to bed angry...

He wouldn't have felt his self worth come into question... the comments about my weight may have stung but I probably said it bothered me and then he would say then do something about it. He would see me doing nothing and he still isn't getting affection... his angry brews with each time I reject him... it snowballs.

It's not that i have to be thin... it's my lack of affection and his feeling rejected. It's a terrible cycle and you become critical of everything else.

My H is the hardest working man I know.

We can all behave like 2yr old at times.

I'm not excusing his behavior on leaving the M. We are both responsible for where we are and we both have wounds.

I'm trying my best to do what is needed so that he may have a change of heart about us. His wound is painful... he chose to go numb than to deal with it. His wall is high. Its probably an impossible task.

I will keep behavior as if every moment around him... but for me to believe that I dont want him when I do is a tough thing to accomplish.

[KitCat]

The number one enemy of love is unresolved anger

[job]

KC,

Your man/child is all over the map w/his emotions. He reminds me so much of my xh when looking for a place to move to. I'm sure that if he really tried hard enough, he could find a place to live. There are plenty of rooms to let, as well as apartments around the location of his work. He could be out there looking when he has free time.

As for the him telling you about all of the "house hunting", he's crying the pity party to the moon. He's hoping that you will fee sorry for him and yes, he's hoping you'll tell him to stay in the home. He's still itching for a justification to leave and if you had suggested that he remain in the home, he most likely would have come out w/something negative.

Actions speak louder than words and quite frankly, right now, his actions don't match up w/his words. If he truly wanted out, he would have been gone by now and either stayed w/his parents full time or w/some of his friends/co-workers.

Sounds like depression is playing w/his head if he can't sleep and the way he's bouncing around, guilt and shame are giving him a run for his money.

The more you act "as if", the better. Right now, his emotional rollercoaster ride is affecting you and your health. I know you want him to stay there, but there comes a time when you need to trust in the man upstairs and just let him go for a bit. He really does need to be on his own to figure himself out. For one thing, where is he going to get the money to rent another place? Will he still provide funds for your living in the home? Things aren't what they use to be 10, 20, etc., years ago. Prices are high for places to rent these days.

Now, one last thing and I agree w/the others...get your own lawyer. Do not allow him to talk you into sharing lawyers. It's not a good practice to do this. Work w/the one that your mother has helped you pay for. Listen to him/her and make a list of questions when you meet w/him/her. Do not share any of this info w/your h.

BTW, please stop making excuses for his behavior. A large majority of what you have posted is about him and yes, history does repeat itself if things are not corrected and your h had issues in the first marriage and now...well, they have started to raise their ugly heads in your marriage. Only accept your half of the demise of your relationship...not the whole pie.

[SteveLW]

Please know if I had more confidence in my body.. I would have never pulled away... he would have never been stabbed in the heart... he wouldn't have gone to bed angry...

He wouldn't have felt his self worth come into question... the comments about my weight may have stung but I probably said it bothered me and then he would say then do something about it. He would see me doing nothing and he still isn't getting affection... his angry brews with each time I reject him... it snowballs.

It's not that i have to be thin... it's my lack of affection and his feeling rejected. It's a terrible cycle and you become critical of everything else.

My H is the hardest working man I know.

We can all behave like 2yr old at times.

I'm not excusing his behavior on leaving the M. We are both responsible for where we are and we both have wounds.

I'm trying my best to do what is needed so that he may have a change of heart about us. His wound is painful... he chose to go numb than to deal with it. His wall is high. Its probably an impossible task.

I will keep behavior as if every moment around him... but for me to believe that I dont want him when I do is a tough thing to accomplish.

If he needs your affection for his own self worth, then he needs IC. Make it a requirement to R.

[KitCat]

Job I hear what you are saying.

I think once he talked to atty and the house issue he was frustrated and realizing this is harder than he had in his mind.

He isn't looking for me to ask him back into the home... he already knows I do not want this.

The reason he gave me for not leaving is something that happened in his first divorce. He left without an agreement in place... packed some things and got out. Came back for more stuff and his XW had destroyed his bike and threw out his stuff. They lived in a small town and he couldn't get charges filed. His stuff was considered communal property and not protected because there was no separation or divorce agreement filed.

Now he says he doesnt think I would ever behave that way. Which I would not... so he stated he could spend a night here and there at his parents . Weekends he will couch surf w friends.

He did rental with his first divorce and never again... he wants a house with yard for a garden.

He has some money that he got prior to our marriage. It had been put back for his D18 college fund but she never grad high school. Now he put that in an acct with both our names. It's about 26k. I could be the bitch and claim half but that would be unbecoming of me. So yes... he has down payment.

Everything I see on my end he is looking to be out the door as soon as whatever papers are filed.

[SteveLW]

I think once he talked to atty and the house issue he was frustrated and realizing this is harder than he had in his mind.

Everything I see on my end he is looking to be out the door as soon as whatever papers are filed.

[/quote]

Can you tell me how these two statements are congruent?

I've seen a lot of these sitches KC. And in the one's where a WAS wanted to be out the door as soon as possible....they were. Actions speak louder than words. The fact that he is still home immediately tells me that he isn't as serious about this as he insists it is. His bark is worse than his bite. There is no reason he couldn't be gone if that was his priority.

[KitCat]

I think once he talked to atty and the house issue he was frustrated and realizing this is harder than he had in his mind.

Everything I see on my end he is looking to be out the door as soon as whatever papers are filed.

Can you tell me how these two statements are congruent?[/quote]

Just because its harder than he thought doesn't mean he doesn't want to do it. And, he has had a bad experience in his last D without agreement in place. So he has been pushing numbers and tackling the two bigger hurdles. He is waiting for documents to get filed so he has protection of his assets here.

He also discussed that he can't buy a house until paperwork is filed because if he does it becomes another marital asset to be divided.

Outside of small comment that came out of nowhere that he says I've been showing him more respect in the last 2 weeks than I have in a long time there hasn't been much softening.

Especially given shortly after that he stated clearly "I Don't Love You".

He says he just can't be hurt that like again and he will never put himself out there for one more promise because he would never get over it.

I know he doesn't hate me. I've also caught him saying once "I Don't Love You Enough".

I've seen a lot of these sitches KC. And in the one's where a WAS wanted to be out the door as soon as possible....they were. Actions speak louder than words. The fact that he is still home immediately tells me that he isn't as serious about this as he insists it is. His bark is worse than his bite. There is no reason he couldn't be gone if that was his priority.

Even if every waking moment we have here together is dividng up things... discussing things... calling atty, calling realtor???

I've not seen any sign that his resolve has changed or even wavered.

[SteveLW]

Except he is full of excuses. "He also discussed that he can't buy a house until paperwork is filed because if he does it becomes another marital asset to be divided." So has he filed? Have you been served with papers? Seems if he was serious about this he'd have done that. But no, instead he leaves Homes magazine laying where you will conveniently see it.

He is smoke and mirrors right now. That is why if you really get good at DBing I think he would back away from all of this. He doesn't want S or D. He wants you to think he does. He wants you to think he wants it quickly. I don't know what his end game is, but I can tell you that if he was a serious WAS......he would have already done the WA part.

Regardless, you need to become a DB pitbull. GAL like crazy. Keep working on your self-improvements (180s), and detach. Keep working on those things. He'll either go through with it, or he won't. But you will be fine because you are doing what you need to do (DBing!).

[KitCat]

Steve85

I had more time to gather thoughts --

He has said that his keeping this as a home base even as he moves out stuff as a way to protect his assests given the destruction of items including the MH in his 1st marriage.

But, couldn't I still do that??? Couldn't I get p!ssed one day and take a hammer to his boat??? NOT THAT I EVER WOULD. Isn't still marital property and is he really better protected???

So I thought that maybe that was the excuse he was selling to himself, to me, to others to still have one foot in the door.

But, then it dawned on me last night he was asking how much it had been to store the boat. I couldn't remember exact number and he volunteer that it would be $X to store his motorbike at new location. I just asked wasn't he looking for a house with a garage. He said one did and one had a barn.

^^^^ So his actions are matching his words? He is looking where to store his stuff. I guess if he were worried for damage he would move his valuables ASAP. He has already said he is not going after equity of the home so I would just be trashing my own house.

Wow, now I'm more confused than ever...

All I can say is I have a lot of work to do to prepare for the day he moves out.

[SteveLW]

KC, that is what I was trying to get you to see. Actions speak louder than words. "I don't love you." Are just words. Mean spirited, angry words from a place of hurt, but just words. The way he behaved the other night belies that. I've never asked someone I don't love if they are hungry (because I don't care) and then to go get my food for me (because I don't want anything from someone I don't care about).

The best thing you can do is continue to repeat to yourself: "Believe NOTHING he says, and only half of what he does," For instance, when he is buying or renting a place, then you can trust he is serious about leaving. Leaving Homes magazine strategically where you can find it, yeah that is the 50% you can't believe.

But none of changes what you should be doing. DBing your tail off!!

[KitCat]

He keeps talking to me about selling the house... he stated his opinion would be for me to sell and just use the equity to buy a new home.

I'm not saying this doesn't make sense because this will be a big ol house with just me in it.

AND, if walked through that door and said I could move with him to X town I would have a FOR SALE sign written in crayon in the front yard. I have told him I would sell and we could move because the drive is killing him. He said its too little too late and that ship has sailed.

One of the reasons he wants D is he said I can't sell the house under S. S is only for a year. It would take me that long any way. I would get S18 off to college first.

I had planned to book our 10yr anniversary trip with points from our timeshare and use airline miles for first class tickets. I think with all the timeshare talk that popped out of my mouth ---- big no no as soon it flew off my lips. Either he didn't catch it or he was avoiding and we kept up the numbers game. Later in the conversation he said I should use the points to take S18 somewhere.

Is he just testing me to see if I would sell my house and leave this place. Is this some type of test to see if i was going to follow up and move for him when S18 is out of school?

Probably not. I think he just wants to look out for me. I got WAY in over my head with this house just before the housing market bust. The only way I held onto it was my H stepped up after moving in - we were a team then. Not so much now.

[SteveLW]

Trying to understand the WAS mind is a fool's game. Most of what he does and says probably doesn't even make sense to him. As I said, right now everything he is saying and doing is for effect, has an agenda behind it, and can't be trusted.

So don't do anything rash based on his crazy. Putting a sign in front of the house in crayon simply because of something he says, even if it is what you want to hear. When he brings up selling the house simply state: "You need to do what you feel you need to do. I'll worry about selling the house and getting something smaller after all of the dust settles." Don't get caught up into his crazy and think everything has to be done now!

You keep mentioning this commute. I have a long commute but I am not a baby about it. How long is it?

[Ready2Change]

To double down on what AS said. You really should flip this script and decide you DON'T want him back right now. More than let him go, jettison him. Become overly helpful and supportive in his house search etc. As I said, right now he is broken, and that is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to fix.

Further, on the "see how things play out later", make sure you have a good picture for what that looks like. In other words, make him earn his way back. If you don't give him conditions for return (IC, MC, etc) then if he does come back easily you are likely setting yourself up for another future BD.

To triple down on what Steve said.

While he is gone, you should work up your list of non-negotiable. When he comes beggin you to take him back, you should be very leary and one of your first conditions BEFORE AGREEING is having him come up with his own list. If it doesn't match yours, tell him "It will take more than that." and have him work on the list some more.

Your sitch is little different in the fact that this is his second marriage. No need to answer these questions, but who initiated his first D, why, did he take any accountability in his role, did he learn anything?

[KitCat]

To double down on what AS said. You really should flip this script and decide you DON'T want him back right now. More than let him go, jettison him. Become overly helpful and supportive in his house search etc. As I said, right now he is broken, and that is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to fix.

Further, on the "see how things play out later", make sure you have a good picture for what that looks like. In other words, make him earn his way back. If you don't give him conditions for return (IC, MC, etc) then if he does come back easily you are likely setting yourself up for another future BD.

To triple down on what Steve said.

While he is gone, you should work up your list of non-negotiable. When he comes beggin you to take him back, you should be very leary and one of your first conditions BEFORE AGREEING is having him come up with his own list. If it doesn't match yours, tell him "It will take more than that." and have him work on the list some more.

Your sitch is little different in the fact that this is his second marriage. No need to answer these questions, but who initiated his first D, why, did he take any accountability in his role, did he learn anything?

He had been unhappy for years. Had PA and EA. Had kids and couldn't imagine being a part time dad. I believe it was his XW that found an apt for him to move too and she kept tight control on his time with kids. His complaints were that she was a stay at home mom who slept 18hr a day. He was the sole provider working alot to come home to find his toddler playing in the street and his mom in bed. She couldn't keep a clean house... still cant and spent the 10yr I knew him/her continued to play games filing restraining orders, keep him from his kids for months at a time.

I know he did some counseling on his own and with the kids several years ago.

I was always told how much better I was and how much better our life was.

He moved and we met r

[SteveLW]

To double down on what AS said. You really should flip this script and decide you DON'T want him back right now. More than let him go, jettison him. Become overly helpful and supportive in his house search etc. As I said, right now he is broken, and that is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to fix.

Further, on the "see how things play out later", make sure you have a good picture for what that looks like. In other words, make him earn his way back. If you don't give him conditions for return (IC, MC, etc) then if he does come back easily you are likely setting yourself up for another future BD.

To triple down on what Steve said.

While he is gone, you should work up your list of non-negotiable. When he comes beggin you to take him back, you should be very leary and one of your first conditions BEFORE AGREEING is having him come up with his own list. If it doesn't match yours, tell him "It will take more than that." and have him work on the list some more.

Your sitch is little different in the fact that this is his second marriage. No need to answer these questions, but who initiated his first D, why, did he take any accountability in his role, did he learn anything?

He had been unhappy for years. Had PA and EA. Had kids and couldn't imagine being a part time dad. I believe it was his XW that found an apt for him to move too and she kept tight control on his time with kids. His complaints were that she was a stay at home mom who slept 18hr a day. He was the sole provider working alot to come home to find his toddler playing in the street and his mom in bed. She couldn't keep a clean house... still cant and spent the 10yr I knew him/her continued to play games filing restraining orders, keep him from his kids for months at a time.

I know he did some counseling on his own and with the kids several years ago.

I was always told how much better I was and how much better our life was.

He moved and we met r

You do realize that the truth is probably different than this, right? There are three sides to every story: Yours, Mine and The Truth.

[KitCat]

Trying to understand the WAS mind is a fool's game. Most of what he does and says probably doesn't even make sense to him. As I said, right now everything he is saying and doing is for effect, has an agenda behind it, and can't be trusted.

So don't do anything rash based on his crazy. Putting a sign in front of the house in crayon simply because of something he says, even if it is what you want to hear. When he brings up selling the house simply state: "You need to do what you feel you need to do. I'll worry about selling the house and getting something smaller after all of the dust settles." Don't get caught up into his crazy and think everything has to be done now!

You keep mentioning this commute. I have a long commute but I am not a baby about it. How long is it?

1hr 15min each way.

Now my friend drives that and loves it.. it's her down time.

For H it's just additional stress when you worked 12 hr come home for 5 and turn around for 12hr. He has worked 20 day without day off.

He wants his 2hr back. He wants to garden.. he is really into hunting... he deserves his time.

[KitCat]

To double down on what AS said. You really should flip this script and decide you DON'T want him back right now. More than let him go, jettison him. Become overly helpful and supportive in his house search etc. As I said, right now he is broken, and that is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to fix.

Further, on the "see how things play out later", make sure you have a good picture for what that looks like. In other words, make him earn his way back. If you don't give him conditions for return (IC, MC, etc) then if he does come back easily you are likely setting yourself up for another future BD.

To triple down on what Steve said.

While he is gone, you should work up your list of non-negotiable. When he comes beggin you to take him back, you should be very leary and one of your first conditions BEFORE AGREEING is having him come up with his own list. If it doesn't match yours, tell him "It will take more than that." and have him work on the list some more.

Your sitch is little different in the fact that this is his second marriage. No need to answer these questions, but who initiated his first D, why, did he take any accountability in his role, did he learn anything?

He had been unhappy for years. Had PA and EA. Had kids and couldn't imagine being a part time dad. I believe it was his XW that found an apt for him to move too and she kept tight control on his time with kids. His complaints were that she was a stay at home mom who slept 18hr a day. He was the sole provider working alot to come home to find his toddler playing in the street and his mom in bed. She couldn't keep a clean house... still cant and spent the 10yr I knew him/her continued to play games filing restraining orders, keep him from his kids for months at a time.

I know he did some counseling on his own and with the kids several years ago.

I was always told how much better I was and how much better our life was.

He moved and we met r

You do realize that the truth is probably different than this, right? There are three sides to every story: Yours, Mine and The Truth.

Yes... I only know his side, after 10yr of dealing with his XW... what he has said is mostly consistent with what I've seen. But i will never know it all.

[SteveLW]

Trying to understand the WAS mind is a fool's game. Most of what he does and says probably doesn't even make sense to him. As I said, right now everything he is saying and doing is for effect, has an agenda behind it, and can't be trusted.

So don't do anything rash based on his crazy. Putting a sign in front of the house in crayon simply because of something he says, even if it is what you want to hear. When he brings up selling the house simply state: "You need to do what you feel you need to do. I'll worry about selling the house and getting something smaller after all of the dust settles." Don't get caught up into his crazy and think everything has to be done now!

You keep mentioning this commute. I have a long commute but I am not a baby about it. How long is it?

1hr 15min each way.

Now my friend drives that and loves it.. it's her down time.

For H it's just additional stress when you worked 12 hr come home for 5 and turn around for 12hr. He has worked 20 day without day off.

He wants his 2hr back. He wants to garden.. he is really into hunting... he deserves his time.

Has your marriage always been one sided?

[SteveLW]

By the way, my drive is about 50 minutes one way. My company is working on new office space so I'll be moving another 15-20 minutes further away from home in a year or two. I wouldn't give up our house or the property we are on for all of the time in the world! I'd quit and find a job closer to home before I did that.

[KitCat]

Has your marriage always been one sided?

What do you mean by one sided?

[job]

My commute to DC was 1 hour and 30 minutes when the sun was shining and no accidents. If it was raining or snowing, the commute was almost double that one way. If he's driving that entire commute himself, yes, it can be stressful. If he's not driving it and has someone else doing the driving, he could catch naps on the way in and out. I, too, wouldn't trade my home and property to live closer.

If he's been doing the commute the entire marriage, why didn't a move take place earlier in the marriage? You don't have to answer my question unless you want to.

I still get the impression that you are making all kinds of excuses for his behavior when you need to be focusing and working on you. It's almost like you are trying to justify his wanting to leave. KC, you deserve better than all of this gaslighting he's doing. As for the "home" magazines sitting around, he's trying to get into your head and create more anxiety for you.

KC, we are trying to help you get to a better place, but you also need to help yourself a bit here. This isn't the first time around for you w/this man wanting to move and leave the marriage. Don't help him leave or figure out his finances. Worry about you and what you are going to do if he leaves. He's a grown man and the sooner he learns that the grass isn't greener over on the other side the better. He's the problem, not you.

KC, straighten that spine, hold your head up high and tell yourself every time he acting like a putz, that you are a good person and deserve better and you definitely deserve respect in all aspects of your life. Don't allow him to speak to you the way he does when he's angry, walk away from him, go to another room or just take a drive. You are not his punching bag. In order to get respect, you've got to respect yourself and set those boundaries.

[KitCat]

My commute to DC was 1 hour and 30 minutes when the sun was shining and no accidents. If it was raining or snowing, the commute was almost double that one way. If he's driving that entire commute himself, yes, it can be stressful. If he's not driving it and has someone else doing the driving, he could catch naps on the way in and out. I, too, wouldn't trade my home and property to live closer.

If he's been doing the commute the entire marriage, why didn't a move take place earlier in the marriage? You don't have to answer my question unless you want to.

I still get the impression that you are making all kinds of excuses for his behavior when you need to be focusing and working on you. It's almost like you are trying to justify his wanting to leave. KC, you deserve better than all of this gaslighting he's doing. As for the "home" magazines sitting around, he's trying to get into your head and create more anxiety for you.

KC, we are trying to help you get to a better place, but you also need to help yourself a bit here. This isn't the first time around for you w/this man wanting to move and leave the marriage. Don't help him leave or figure out his finances. Worry about you and what you are going to do if he leaves. He's a grown man and the sooner he learns that the grass isn't greener over on the other side the better. He's the problem, not you.

KC, straighten that spine, hold your head up high and tell yourself every time he acting like a putz, that you are a good person and deserve better and you definitely deserve respect in all aspects of your life. Don't allow him to speak to you the way he does when he's angry, walk away from him, go to another room or just take a drive. You are not his punching bag. In order to get respect, you've got to respect yourself and set those boundaries.

S18 was in good strong school system. He has had challenges and a school change would have been hard.

My H understood that...

The deal 2yr ago was to move closer when S18 graduated. He just got the feeling that was never going to happen given the work done, my tone in talking about what to do. Pile into that the rejection that had building up and some jealousy on my part for the NYE... AND, he had such a fun time he just wants that more.

He is over the drive.

He is over me.

I've been getting great advice. I've gone over so much minutia. But he has been gone all day again. I know he was looking at houses today. Its 3pm and he is not home. He gets up at 7pm and leaves for work at 8pm.

He didnt pack a bag so he wasnt intentionally not coming home. .. but here we are again.

He doesnt hate me. He does care about me and doesnt want me to lose the house. But he is nice to me and I think maybe, maybe he will change his mind. Im somewhere and he wants to know where, but he is only calling to talk about timeshare stuff. But he clearly wants to move on.

He has said he wants to move on... he is taking steps to do so... maybe not as quickly as some.

I've got to stop thinking kindness is wanting a way back in. Asking me where I am at is just knee jerk reaction because he isn't asking today and he certainly isn't letting me know he is okay.

[NicoleR]

KitKat! I'm so deeply sorry to read your updates. You supported me a lot last year and I haven't been back here as often recently but I just read through your thread and have to respond. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It seems like the rug was ripped from right under your feet. It was so great that you were able to save your marriage previously but it seems like your husband is prone to doing this. It's so awful what you're going through. You are brave to be facing your husband head-on in his state of rage.

KitKat I have a question. Forgive me if didn't spot the answer. Why do you think your husband is doing this now? What triggered it? I read that you rejected his advances and he felt hurt and he's tired of commuting all that, but why this sudden need to get divorced quickly and buy a new house closer to work? My suspicion based on having been through this is there's another woman that your husband would like to pursue. He may or may not have started something but if he hasn't, he probably wants to do so as soon as possible. Your lack of affection, other supposed faults, and his long commute create a convincing and compelling case for him to divorce you and move out. By blaming you and his commute he gets to leave the marriage free of shame, perhaps even with sympathy from those around him, since you are the bad guy and he's the victim. I'm sure you do have faults and his commute isn't that fun, but there are probably 200 solutions to these problems that'd allow the marriage to continue. Counseling, changing jobs, moving closer to his work together (both of you), taking an early retirement, making a five-year plan, buying a small apartment closer to work where he can sleep on some nights and come home on other nights, etc.... You sound like such a nice, accommodating, and receptive person. I'm sure you would have been willing to work with your husband to find solutions if he came to you and said he's unhappy. Or he could tell you he's unhappy and the two of you agree to try for a while to fix the problems, even if you've had them in the past, but you could try even harder. And if that doesn't work you could go to counseling. And if that doesn't work you could do a trial separation. And then, if nothing else in the entire universe works you could consider divorce. Your husband has a voice so he could have spoken up at any time instead of suffering in silence. Everyone is capable of communicating and learning problem solving skills and brainstorming ideas. All it takes is a willingness to try. Instead your husband ambushed you with a sudden and urgent divorce and he needs to buy his own house immediately. This is not rational!! Especially the way that he's trying to make you suffer. He likely wants you to suffer so that he doesn't need to feel guilty for what he's doing, which he knows is wrong.

If you recall my situation my husband left twice. Both times he blamed me for being a bad wife, said he doesn't love me, he's not happy, etc.. There was no effort from his side to make it work. He has always denied cheating and always will, but both times I found out on my own that it was all due to another woman. He simply met another woman and wanted to be with her. I guess it's not acceptable to admit that he's a cheater so he had to blame me for everything. He said so many things like he needs his freedom, felt trapped by marriage, wants to live his own life, etc.. but within weeks (or less) of leaving me he was already living with another woman and committed to someone else.

Are there ways you can check to see what your husband is really up to? Not that you need to know, but if he's lying to you it'd be nice to know the truth.

Your husband can have his divorce and move closer to work and if he's cheating he can have his fun with the other woman but it might not all work out for him. The other woman might dump him, he might realize he misses you, he might not like living on one income, he might wake up one day and realize what he's done. Then he'll be back begging to try again. The problem is that he isn't stable or mature. It's a really tough call deciding whether you'd like to leave the door open to reconciling with someone like that.

I'd personally find it very difficult to live with someone who is actively planning a divorce and toxic to be around. You know yourself and your situation best but if I were in your shoes I'd probably find another place to stay. I'm so deeply sorry again. I wish no one would ever have to go through this.

[SteveLW]

Has your marriage always been one sided?

What do you mean by one sided?

It seems like he reacts, you leap into action. Have you ever heard the old saying "The person that loves the least, controls the relationship"? It feels like you love him so much that if he said "You have to jump off of this bridge or I am leaving" you'd jump. But heaven-forbid if you make a demand because he would leave in a heartbeat. That is not a fun place to be in a relationship. All it takes is one slip-up and you are in survival mode. Which sounds like exactly what has happened.

[KitCat]

Has your marriage always been one sided?

What do you mean by one sided?

It seems like he reacts, you leap into action. Have you ever heard the old saying "The person that loves the least, controls the relationship"? It feels like you love him so much that if he said "You have to jump off of this bridge or I am leaving" you'd jump. But heaven-forbid if you make a demand because he would leave in a heartbeat. That is not a fun place to be in a relationship. All it takes is one slip-up and you are in survival mode. Which sounds like exactly what has happened.

I wouldn't jump off a bridge.

It's just his reasons are vaild... he gave me another chance before and yet somehow I just blew it. Not intentionally. I made him feel bad .. and this is a man I am very much attracted to.

[KitCat]

. You sound like such a nice, accommodating, and receptive person. I'm sure you would have been willing to work with your husband to find solutions if he came to you and said he's unhappy.

Its nice for you to say that but my H would say I don't listen and that he has felt bullied by me at times. He just gives in and goes with the flow because its easier??? I have been controlling and he felt like a prisoner. i think he got a taste of what it would be like to be free and socialize more easily. Reconnecting with old friends is fun and is a good time but it doesn't last forever.

Up until BD I could account for my H at all times - not to the minute but we communicated and he honestly didn't have the time with his schedule.

Maybe now??? Maybe these high school friends he is reconnecting with may also be going or having gone through D and he is getting close with someone.

I know he has had heart to heart conversations with 2 male friends but I suppose a female friend is one to be lending a more caring ear.

If you recall my situation my husband left twice. Both times he blamed me for being a bad wife, said he doesn't love me, he's not happy, etc.. There was no effort from his side to make it work. He has always denied cheating and always will, but both times I found out on my own that it was all due to another woman. He simply met another woman and wanted to be with her. I guess it's not acceptable to admit that he's a cheater so he had to blame me for everything. He said so many things like he needs his freedom, felt trapped by marriage, wants to live his own life, etc.. but within weeks (or less) of leaving me he was already living with another woman and committed to someone else.

So why he does point to my pulling away and leaving him going to bed angry he has admitted to some of his issues as well --- online gaming, etc. So he points out where he could have been better too.

I just feel tremendous pain and responsibility because what he is complaining about is real.

It doen't help that the sex had dwindled. Its hard when you work opposite shifts... his drive is on in the morning after getting off work and mine is in the evening. It had dried up in the last 3 months. He did even say he wasn't getting his needs met so I would plan a date night - something fun where we could end up in the sack and then he fell asleep on the way home... :-(

Are there ways you can check to see what your husband is really up to? Not that you need to know, but if he's lying to you it'd be nice to know the truth.

There is not. But if he truly wants gone and out of this relationship he knows a PA is the way to go. I won't come back from that. If he wants a D and just to move on with his life he knows this is my deal breaker. He has said he is not ... but he has also said when he moves out and things are filed there will be plenty of lady friends at his home. He will not live the life of a hermit.

I agreed 2yr ago that I would move when S18 was out of school... I think he felt I would never leave and that along with this, that and the other he broke...

I'd give anything to go back and not send that text that seemed to upset him -- it was a joke but it did not come across that way to him... SERIOUSLY I was planning on giving him my undivided attention all morning when he got off work. As he was leaving the night before he said he was stopping at his moms to visit with the nephews they had school fund raisers and he was going to get a haircut. I texted him "this is the second morning I've had free and you are spending with you mother again"... he took that to believe I wasn't at his mom's house. He texted back and I fell asleep... the next text was him telling me how p!ssed off he was by that text... GAME OVER

[KitCat]

Well tonight was fantastic!!!

I knew H wouldn't be home in the morning as typical - he told me so. But, he never came home. It was like Sunday all over again.

So come 6pm I just open a bottle of wine and text/chat with friends after calling my mother.

Then at 7:15pm I hear his truck in the driveway... CRAP! Closing out internet browser... throwing DR into a drawer.. stashing the extra glass of wine... yes I had 2 separate glasses out. Then try to be casual in the sunroom. Only to remember I left my DR homework notes on the table... I gather those but he can see I'm garbing something.

His first words are "so you are drinking wine?" Obviously 1/2 empty bottle on counter.

I'm trying to kind but this is probably so needy that someone should call the police and report me.

Me; Did you get some sleep today
H: Yes a couple of hr in the truck...
Me: Wow, it was chilly for that
H: Yes, but I was sitting in the sun and it got pretty warm.

H: I'm working this weekend. Not sure if 8 or 12hr. Sunday is in the air.
Me: ok
H: Did you go to the store?
Me: Only got milk, did you need anything?
H: X, Y, Z

H went to take shower. Once done he got his coffee and stated he was leaving. I said have a nice night from another room..

10min later he is back. Goes to bedroom and I can hear velcro. After 2min he goes through the kitchen without a word. I'm in another room during this whole time. Once he is gone I confirm he has taken his oral appliance so he plans on sleeping somewhere. From what I could see he did not pack a bag.

So he literally drove 2hr to take a shower.

He is complaining about being sleep deprived and this terrible commute... yet he drove 2hr for a shower.

I know he was supposed to be seeing homes today but that doesn't take 14hr. He was also supposed to pick up paperwork from atty??? He mentioned that yet he brought no paperwork in with him... for a man in a hurry to file?? Now I could have misunderstood as he is without much sleep - maybe they are sending it to us??? I'm certain though he was supposed to pick up.

He was wearing crappy work clothes... holey jeans, t-shrit and sweatshirt. They smell like work clothes and the only fragrance I get is from the arm pits - his deodorant. I found a receipt for breakfast for 2. Could have been his dad... its where they like to eat but really who knows.

If he is having A... he isn't dressing very nice AND why not shower there????

[KitCat]

So I know better than this but on FB H posted a meme.

Never judge your own self worth
based on someone else's
inability to see it, Ever!

Then he typed "Practiced'

I love this man. I am in awe of this man! He has brought so many good things into my life.. I have left him feeling unappreciated and belittled for an long time.

On doing LRT.as best as possible. When he is not here I've been fantastic about not calling or texting. When he is here I'm trying to act as if... I think I initiate the contact which I shouldn't but I want him to feel that its pleasant here and create more positive experiences.

The man feels I haven't properly kissed him in 2 years... and he may have a point.

How does one take time away from that... and start to.miss what he with me enough to never want it back?

I am going.back to.work today. Its going.to be a very trying day.

[funbun]

Hi KitCat,

I've been following your thread for a while. It looks like you've been through a roller coaster ride of emotions these past few days. I know how that feels like.

When you feel distressed, what are the things you can do to calm yourself? I personally think you tend to get too caught up with H's actions. He's being passive aggressive and you are taking the bait. It's not healthy. Try to distance yourself from that and give love and care to yourself. You need to be in a good mental state first before anything else.

Self love first KC. Self love first.

[wooba]

I feel you. My H does something similar....he comes back to get some clothes, claims he’s showing up to see the kids but barely talks to them, and leaves. I don’t know why he doesn’t just move all his stuff to his new place and save himself the trouble. I also thought about that too...what woman in her right mind would want to be with a man like H now?? Then I think- there are lots of women who are not right in the head.

[SteveLW]

Has your marriage always been one sided?

What do you mean by one sided?

It seems like he reacts, you leap into action. Have you ever heard the old saying "The person that loves the least, controls the relationship"? It feels like you love him so much that if he said "You have to jump off of this bridge or I am leaving" you'd jump. But heaven-forbid if you make a demand because he would leave in a heartbeat. That is not a fun place to be in a relationship. All it takes is one slip-up and you are in survival mode. Which sounds like exactly what has happened.

I wouldn't jump off a bridge.

It's just his reasons are vaild... he gave me another chance before and yet somehow I just blew it. Not intentionally. I made him feel bad .. and this is a man I am very much attracted to.

Yes you've made it abundantly clear that he has valid reasons, and that you are a terrible person. KC, what job and I have tried to get you to see is that none of that matters. At all. The past is the past. You can't fix it by becoming super wife. You can't nice him back. You can't do the things that keep a marriage happy to fix a broken marriage

Back before I met my W, I was completely in love with this girl that I knew almost my whole life. We will call her Keri to protect the innocent and the guilty. I "went with" Keri in 6th and 7th grade. Then we drifted apart. In high school we become friends, but I was in love with her the whole time. She considered me her best friend. After high school I still secretly pined for her while I watched losers come in and out of her life. Always wondering what she saw in them. I was in college, gainfully employed, bright prospects. She was dating losers that were in bands, had drug habits, etc. Into young adulthood I had finally told her how I felt. She started totally doing the pursuit distance dynamic with me. If I moved towards her she retreated, when I backed off she'd start contacting me. This continued with he giving me just enough hope to not give anyone else a chance, but never enough to actually be with me romantically. I finally had enough, and started to move on.

I then met my now wife. For the first few months it was very similar to the dynamic with Keri. She saw me as a good friend, I was completely enamored with her. Finally after a few months she "fell" for me. But after marriage many of the issues that were there in the first few months of us knowing each other were back. She just didn't seem that into me. And I didn't help matters with a decent case of NGS, and other bad behaviors.

You see, for some reason the number one thing I was attracted to was a girl that wasn't into me that way. If a girl, no matter how good looking and sweet was into me it was the kiss of death for her. There must have been 25-30 girls from the time I was gaga over Keri, until I married my wife that thought the sun rose and set for me. One in particular even came sniffing back around when I was dating my wife. Too be honest with you I should have been with her. Because now that I am older and wise I know a simple truth:

All those years I wanted to find someone I was crazy about, when in reality I should have been looking for someone that was crazy about me!

If I could go back I would do things so much more different because of that simple truth.

You deserve someone that is crazy about you. That you can be yourself with and around and not have to walk on eggshells, wondering what the next thing you do or say will be that makes him BD you. If your H becomes that man, great. If not, what we are telling you is that you deserve better. You deserve more. Whether you think you do or not.

[KitCat]

I know.

It just that I am so ashamed... really ashamed...

He is not in a place to hear that other than - telling his friends she realized what she lost the minute I was gone out the door.

I just keep looking at the cascade of events that got us here. Just a simple shift in the dynamics... rather than just a hey baby txt... a txt telling him about my desire to a bike ride when the weather was nicer.. a txt saying I couldn't wait to see him in the morning. Seriously all the things I was thinking but not communicating.

If I say those things now he just thinks I'm saying anything to keep him. He has said why didn't I do that 4 months ago?

I wish I knew.

I'm human.

I think he was sincere the other day when he said he was sorry for hurting me. He has been hurting for a long time.

He was crazy me about me at one time.

[SteveLW]

Just remember. He has a lot of culpability in this two. He is once divorced, has BD'd you twice. He has some things he needs to work on and deal with. My guess is he suffers from some level of NGS ("I am a nice guy, I deserve sex, affection, money, etc.") HE also seems to be an avoider. This is all reasons he needs IC. And you need to make that a requirement to R. Are you strong enough to give him requirements IF he decides to stay?

[KitCat]

Just remember. He has a lot of culpability in this two. He is once divorced, has BD'd you twice. He has some things he needs to work on and deal with. My guess is he suffers from some level of NGS ("I am a nice guy, I deserve sex, affection, money, etc.") HE also seems to be an avoider. This is all reasons he needs IC. And you need to make that a requirement to R. Are you strong enough to give him requirements IF he decides to stay?

He warned me he wasn't getting what he needed. I scheduled a date night... he fell asleep. I had cleared two mornings to give him 100% of my attention and just turned out those same two mornings he planned to stop by his parents house.

I could say a hundred I'm sorries... I could act as if to till the end of time.

He is done with me, this commute, this marriage. He is thinking logically. That how many times do you burn your hand before you stop putting it in the flame.

I know his words have been all over the place. Everytime I leave him be and give him peace he comes back and ramps things up - 1st just S, then its just D.

When he first BD he stated that the marriage could not be mended if he continued to live with me (ie the commute and living where he hates), then he said when he first brought up 2yr S he stated if he changed his mind and wanted things with me again I would be coming to him (in his new place near work).

The later might seem a bit of an AHole thing to do but frankly I had agreed to move one S18 was out of school. And I have already told him I owe him the move. He sacrificed for years and now it was my turn.

Like I said... the further out we get there is more movement away than toward. He stated he took S off the table because he didn't want me to think he was dangling it like a carrot over my head in regards to D.

I have been the avoider... he talks about the future and I listen... he talks about retirement and I listen... he made calls for a fishing trip during our up coming trip and I listened. I think he took my passivity to mean I wasn't interested. I'm just so busy in the here and now.. he was looking to dream and felt I wasn't joining in? I don't know.

I could list a thousand reasons I didn't do what my H needed to me to do.

He is no saint or angel but I have always felt nothing other than love and loyalty to him.

[SteveLW]

Again, you sound like you have it all figured out.

[job]

KC,

You are human and we all make mistakes each and every day. However, it is what we learn from those mistakes which helps us, strengthens us, in our daily lives.

Sure, there have been a number of mistakes made in the relationship, but from what you've posted, he's not met you half way at all. It's more like he continues to find fault w/you and yet, he's the one that has unresolved issues from his last marriage that haven't been thoroughly looked at by him. If a person jumps from one relationship and hasn't resolved those issues as to why they left the last one, they will carry those same issues into a new relationship and that may be what he's done here.

Why do you continue to take on all of the blame? You aren't the one that is throwing in the towel here. Your self-esteem and self respect have been torn down and you need to find your way out of that rabbit hole of negativity. Sure, you've made mistakes, but my goodness, they are the past and you can't change the past. The present is a gift and one that you need to focus on right this very day. What can you do for yourself that will make the day a bit more pleasant for you? Find something to smile about even if it is just enjoying a good book. The future is not ours to predict and it will reveal itself when the time is right.

You trusted the system before...can you trust it again? Release him from your mind and allow the man upstairs to work on him. You need to focus on you and your son and please, please stop beating yourself up.

[Ready2Change]

Hi KC,

I have been here for a long time. If you keep your posts here focused on your H you will loose any chance of attracting him back.

Change the focus of your posts to you and your changes. Be specific. You can talk about the new ways you are interacting and how his behavior changes, if needed, but it should all be about you and your happiness.

Just think about this : Do you know anything about my X wife? Do I know anything about your man? We want to know more about you and your growth.

HUGS

[KitCat]

KC,
Why do you continue to take on all of the blame? You aren't the one that is throwing in the towel here. Your self-esteem and self respect have been torn down and you need to find your way out of that rabbit hole of negativity. Sure, you've made mistakes, but my goodness, they are the past and you can't change the past. The present is a gift and one that you need to focus on right this very day. What can you do for yourself that will make the day a bit more pleasant for you? Find something to smile about even if it is just enjoying a good book. The future is not ours to predict and it will reveal itself when the time is right.

I am not the one throwing in the towel.

He went and got a puppy. That he hasn't been here to help out with. At the very least coordinate schedules to help get the puppy out and exercised.

He is not coming home repeatedly. I have not texted or called. He drove 2hr last night to take a shower here. Wouldn't make eye contact but was talking to me and asking questions. He volunteered that was working this weekend but didn't know if it was 8 or 12. Didn't know about Sunday.

I haven't once asked about his where abouts. So why tell me you are working? You could easily just be out partying all weekend. What would I know. Either way I cannot contact you at all.

You apparently come and go as you please.

You trusted the system before...can you trust it again? Release him from your mind and allow the man upstairs to work on him. You need to focus on you and your son and please, please stop beating yourself up.

Its a struggle because every time I see him there is something different he wants to offer... sliding more to D.

I will admit he ultimately nice on Wednesday. It was nice that he was asking where I was. It was nice that I was telling him I needed to go and he kept trying to talk. We ended Wednesday on a nice note. The only conflict was when he said it was up to me what we do and I said S... do offer if you are not going to like my answer. Outside of that everything was fine.

He even agreed to deal with the fence people. Prior to that he wanted nothing to do with it.

I'm not dealing with the not coming home stuff - being unpredictable. He didn't sleep here yesterday and not today. Is that because he did not get sleep here on Wendesday??? THAT had nothing to do with me. The Atty phone call woke him up. He went back to bed - several times. I didn't bother him.

Lack of sleep is messing with my head.

[KitCat]

Hi KC,

I have been here for a long time. If you keep your posts here focused on your H you will loose any chance of attracting him back.

Change the focus of your posts to you and your changes. Be specific. You can talk about the new ways you are interacting and how his behavior changes, if needed, but it should all be about you and your happiness.

Just think about this : Do you know anything about my X wife? Do I know anything about your man? We want to know more about you and your growth.

HUGS

I see what you are saying.

I will work on that.

[KitCat]

I am going to get off work a little late. Head home and work out... I don't like working out in public so I have exercise equipment at home. That just makes the loneliness worse. S18 is very busy with school, work, and clubs.

I have plans for lunch tomorrow with family. I will do my best to smile. Questions about H will be tough.

I will try to leave the house each day but since H isn't helping with the dogs I'm limited on what to do and when to be gone.

[KitCat]

So proof there is AP?

H posted a meme on FB

Find someone who is proud to have you, scared to lose you, fights for you, appreciates you, respects you, cares for you, and loves you unconditionally.

I'M THAT PERSON. If I didn't let you know how proud I was of you that is on me. I am scared to lose you. I am fighitng for you... it's just that my calls/texts were by your own words pushing you away so I stopped. I haven't contacted you for days. I do appreciate you. I do respect you - you are the hardest working man I know, the most helpful when something breaks, you are strong. I do love you unconditionally - I love that you hunt and fish, motorbikes make me nervous but you look so hot on one. What conditions do you feel my love has?

Then the only comment is a GIF of a woman sitting in a chair raising her arms over her head and pointing at herself... ie.. "ME". Its from the one woman I was worried about. The woman from NYE that I later asked him about in apparently a tone and body language that sounded accusative.

Husband didn't come home yesterday so apparently he found another place to shower.

So if this my proof of AP?

When he drove 2hr for a shower that night there were tons of posts on her page about how she "when a King meets his Queen", about how "she found her person"... then "the biggest rule in a relationship is no matter how mad you are at your partner, you do not go and seek someone else's atttention. You sit your ass there and make it right. Because that's your person. If you can easily go to someone else, you do not love the person you are with"

WTH^^^ He is still married to me. We have filed NOTHING. One minute I get the impression she is going through something and my H is just being a friend but then ALL the posts on the 20th sound like she is going after mine.

Oh sure, I believe he told her the M was over 2yr ago or something so this is fine... but its NOT fine. He is still currently my H.

AND, how do I sit on this??? Do I ask him??? Do I just wait until the time comes that he will tell me.

It is NOT my nature to sit on this. Normally I would have already called the minute I would have seen. So far I just called my mother. I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN I WILL SEE HIM AGAIN.

He wants someone to fight for him???? How do I fight for my H???

[SteveLW]

I'd cancel my FB account. Stalking him on there is not helping you detach.

[Traveler]

Hi KitKat,

I’m very sorry for this turn of events.

Asking? No. That almost never helps. When someone has a secret AP—if that’s what is happening—they usually lie and gaslight. Letting them know you suspect also puts them on-guard making it harder to learn the truth. Things do seem to come out in time, but you also have the options of a GPS tracker in his car (e.g., Tile) or private detective.

[Thornton]

How do you fight for your H? You fight for him by letting him go. Again, DBing is counter intuitive. It goes against your natural instincts to chase and convince him to stay.

[KitCat]

Yes... will stay away from FB... was really good until last 48hr.

Well he came home this am... went right to work I garage to repair drywall... not a word to me.

I stepped out. He is on his phone and barely looks at me.

I said it looked nice and had a few more questions because I'm going to be the one to paint the whole section.

Then I should have left... went to my corner of the house... but I didnt and I see now what I did say was nothing but chasing and R talk.

All my hard work of not calling or texting for days kind of blown perhaps. I will share more details later.

I think he is only here to see if papers arrived ... he asked if he had any mail in the last 2 days. He didnt outside a flyer for furniture sale and I never save that stuff for him anyway. I think he was expecting papers to come... I think he is waiting on the mail. Darn mailman...

[KitCat]

How do you fight for your H? You fight for him by letting him go. Again, DBing is counter intuitive. It goes against your natural instincts to chase and convince him to stay.

But it seems like with the comments he is looking for someone to fight for him.... he wants someone to fight for him, or I guess ita more that he wants someone else to fight for him....

I just dont want him walking away feeling I didnt fight for him.

[SteveLW]

How do you fight for your H? You fight for him by letting him go. Again, DBing is counter intuitive. It goes against your natural instincts to chase and convince him to stay.

But it seems like with the comments he is looking for someone to fight for him.... he wants someone to fight for him, or I guess ita more that he wants someone else to fight for him....

I just dont want him walking away feeling I didnt fight for him.

Here is your problem. As the LBS, no matter what you do, he'll say it's the wrong thing. If you fight and chase he'll accuse you of smothering him and being controlling. If you DB he'll claim he wants to be chased and fought for. You're darned if you do and darned if you don't..... According to his words.

But if you let him go, give him time and space, then all these other dynamics we've talked about could eventually come into play. He'll get curious why you aren't chasing, calling, hounding. As you distance, he'll get the urge to pursue. Whether he does or not, none of us know.

What I can't tell you is I've seen dozens, maybe hundreds of these sitches, and pressure and pursuit work in less than 1% of the cases. DBing only gives you a 50/50 chance, less the worse you are at it. As you can see, the best chance you have is to DB the best you can. But it isn't up to you or anyone else other than him ultimately.

[KitCat]

So this morning I was already up. Showered and looking good. Wore clothes I dont typically wear unless out of town [I wear scrubs tonwork].

I did not know if he was showing up when or if at all.

I say Hello and I'm working with the dogs and getting them settled.

I made huge mistake in asking if he was sleeping here today... honestly just to make it quiet for him. He said no.

I asked if he was moving out. He said he was trying to even looking for crappy places just to get out. I asked where he was staying and then immediately said it's not my business... he said friends.

Ugh... terrible chasing on my part because I said male or female... he said female. I said was this more than friends... he said to definite more than friends. I was quiet. He stated he has known this person 30yr. She definitely wants more. He says it would not be a good thing and nothing that would ever be long term successful.

I dropped it...

Ok.. here comes the begging... I told him he was the best thing g to ever happen to me and he was the hardest working man I know. He just said stop.

H: You lost interest in me.
Me: I lost the ability to show interest in you.
H: YOU lost interest in me... [implying it was the same thing]
H: I've got to be done. It will get better for 2 weeks and then be bad for 3 months.

I went back to house doing my own thing.

He feel asleep at the kitchen table for awhile... showered and dressed in work clothes.

I went about my business putting on shoes to go with outfit... nice wedges and the whole ensemble is a 180... I only dress like that when out of town or special occasion. I want looking to see if he noticed but at some point we bumped spaces in the kitchen and I caught his eyes on ME... but it was a quick glance to my stomach... which is not as flat as it used to be... but I'm working on it. And the outfit helped hide a little. I was wearing a tight top that showed cleavage and showed off my big knockers... that I know he loves. If the extra weight had gone to my but not a big deal but I have always known he doesnt like a big belly on a man or woman.

My last big mistake was saying if he would take care of the dogs when I am gone in March... frack... future talk. He was grumpy in his response... then could S18 do it...then saying I dont know where I am going to be. That was prob my biggest mistake of the day.

I thought he was leaving but he settled down in his recliner and started online gaming... something g he told me he quit doing. I left him be and got ready to leave.

I asked if it was ok to leave dogs in house... he said he thought so and wanted to know how long I be gone... I said an hr. He said he was going to X... I'm sure to get the rest of the stuff needed to finish garage... he hadn't been in a hurry before but I think he wants no reason to return.

I'm in a parking lot to give myself space so I quit making mistakes

[KitCat]

How do you fight for your H? You fight for him by letting him go. Again, DBing is counter intuitive. It goes against your natural instincts to chase and convince him to stay.

But it seems like with the comments he is looking for someone to fight for him.... he wants someone to fight for him, or I guess ita more that he wants someone else to fight for him....

I just dont want him walking away feeling I didnt fight for him.

Here is your problem. As the LBS, no matter what you do, he'll say it's the wrong thing. If you fight and chase he'll accuse you of smothering him and being controlling. If you DB he'll claim he wants to be chased and fought for. You're darned if you do and darned if you don't..... According to his words.

But if you let him go, give him time and space, then all these other dynamics we've talked about could eventually come into play. He'll get curious why you aren't chasing, calling, hounding. As you distance, he'll get the urge to pursue. Whether he does or not, none of us know.

What I can't tell you is I've seen dozens, maybe hundreds of these sitches, and pressure and pursuit work in less than 1% of the cases. DBing only gives you a 50/50 chance, less the worse you are at it. As you can see, the best chance you have is to DB the best you can. But it isn't up to you or anyone else other than him ultimately.

It's all up to him.

That is what happened last time.. I pulled back and made some changes... he came to me. BUT, AND A VERY BIG BUT, he wasnt as committed to leaving... he had more doubts as to what direction and he never told his parents. This time his actions are lining up with his words.

Well he is probably annoyed that I'm dressed up. He is stressed and smoking a lot. The stress probably comes from salt having to be here... which is why he is finishing up garage tasks.

He is still here this am... he briefly relaxed and did online game, then left for store to get garage stuff. When he returned he was back in garage for awhile... came out stating the part he needs is an hour away. I said you are not doing that today? He said no and just left again. I think to return the part he bought but who knows.

I will let go...

I will focus more on me... I will delay paperwork as best I can... I will continue not to call or text. I will pull away from him. I will stop checking in... I will not ask him to participate in the show we got expensive tickets for or our massages scehuled this week.

He can look at the calendar... unless he removed that from his phone.

My H can be an Ahole at times. But he makes a valid point about it will be good and then bad but his rewriting history of just 2 weeks in harsh but whatever.

In his mind right now he is not coming back.

I have to stop looking at FB... I have to focus on me only. Stop asking him if he wants dinner. He is a big boy... a change would be if he asked me if I wanted some dinner.

[KitCat]

I truly think that just the sight of me makes his skin crawl....

Leaving the house for lunch with family.

I guess when laundry is done he will pack a more formal bag with more clothes and crash elsewhere.

[Traveler]

I told him he was the best thing g to ever happen to me and he was the hardest working man I know. He just said..

H: Stop. You lost interest in me.
Me: I lost the ability to show interest in you.
H: YOU lost interest in me...

Hard day--him confirming he's staying with a female friend who wants to be more than friends. I wish more situations were turned around by the LBS bravely putting themselves out there like you did. It's a shame that, by this point, a big chunk of them has already moved on. You did spur him to share his feelings. If he does that again, remember Validation is usually more effective than Disagreement.

H: Stop. You lost interest in me.
You: You felt like I wasn't interest in you.

With no minor kids in common, and this being your second rodeo, I wonder if you don't deserve better. No need to decide, of course, because either way Detaching and GAL are the key next DB steps.

[oceangrl]

So this morning I was already up. Showered and looking good. Wore clothes I dont typically wear unless out of town [I wear scrubs tonwork].

I did not know if he was showing up when or if at all.

I say Hello and I'm working with the dogs and getting them settled.

I made huge mistake in asking if he was sleeping here today... honestly just to make it quiet for him. He said no.

I asked if he was moving out. He said he was trying to even looking for crappy places just to get out. I asked where he was staying and then immediately said it's not my business... he said friends.

Ugh... terrible chasing on my part because I said male or female... he said female. I said was this more than friends... he said to definite more than friends. I was quiet. He stated he has known this person 30yr. She definitely wants more. He says it would not be a good thing and nothing that would ever be long term successful.

I dropped it...

Ok.. here comes the begging... I told him he was the best thing g to ever happen to me and he was the hardest working man I know. He just said stop.

H: You lost interest in me.
Me: I lost the ability to show interest in you.
H: YOU lost interest in me... [implying it was the same thing]
H: I've got to be done. It will get better for 2 weeks and then be bad for 3 months.

I went back to house doing my own thing.

He feel asleep at the kitchen table for awhile... showered and dressed in work clothes.

I went about my business putting on shoes to go with outfit... nice wedges and the whole ensemble is a 180... I only dress like that when out of town or special occasion. I want looking to see if he noticed but at some point we bumped spaces in the kitchen and I caught his eyes on ME... but it was a quick glance to my stomach... which is not as flat as it used to be... but I'm working on it. And the outfit helped hide a little. I was wearing a tight top that showed cleavage and showed off my big knockers... that I know he loves. If the extra weight had gone to my but not a big deal but I have always known he doesnt like a big belly on a man or woman.

My last big mistake was saying if he would take care of the dogs when I am gone in March... frack... future talk. He was grumpy in his response... then could S18 do it...then saying I dont know where I am going to be. That was prob my biggest mistake of the day.

I thought he was leaving but he settled down in his recliner and started online gaming... something g he told me he quit doing. I left him be and got ready to leave.

I asked if it was ok to leave dogs in house... he said he thought so and wanted to know how long I be gone... I said an hr. He said he was going to X... I'm sure to get the rest of the stuff needed to finish garage... he hadn't been in a hurry before but I think he wants no reason to return.

I'm in a parking lot to give myself space so I quit making mistakes

You've already told him you want to be with him.

You've already told him you don't want divorce and you feel you can change. Don't tell him anymore. That's not working. As it says in DR, don't do more of the same.

Now show him. But show him by doing it for you.

Stop asking his permission to do things. Stop asking him if it's okay to leave the dogs inside or if he can help you with them. Instead, say something like, "I'm heading out. Dogs in or out?" or "I'm heading out. Put the dogs out when you leave."
"We will have to make arrangements for dogs in March. How can you help?"

As far as an AP goes, I asked my husband straight out if he had one and he said no. He had been with someone for a year already. Integrity and affairs don't go together.

Make a playlist of awesome songs that make you happy and feel empowered.

When he looks at your stomach, instead of feeling less than think "what a jerk. I can do better."

Flip the script. Think of something he did unkind to you today and realize he doesn't treat you very well.

Yes, you made mistakes. Well, he's not exactly a knight in shining armor right now either. Because you haven't forgiven yourself yet you keep beating yourself up. He is acting like a big fat victim and you definitely want to stop playing into that.

You've got this. Start telling yourself you do.

[SteveLW]

So this morning I was already up. Showered and looking good. Wore clothes I dont typically wear unless out of town [I wear scrubs tonwork].

I did not know if he was showing up when or if at all.

I say Hello and I'm working with the dogs and getting them settled.

I made huge mistake in asking if he was sleeping here today... honestly just to make it quiet for him. He said no.

I asked if he was moving out. He said he was trying to even looking for crappy places just to get out. I asked where he was staying and then immediately said it's not my business... he said friends.

Ugh... terrible chasing on my part because I said male or female... he said female. I said was this more than friends... he said to definite more than friends. I was quiet. He stated he has known this person 30yr. She definitely wants more. He says it would not be a good thing and nothing that would ever be long term successful.

I dropped it...

Ok.. here comes the begging... I told him he was the best thing g to ever happen to me and he was the hardest working man I know. He just said stop.

H: You lost interest in me.
Me: I lost the ability to show interest in you.
H: YOU lost interest in me... [implying it was the same thing]
H: I've got to be done. It will get better for 2 weeks and then be bad for 3 months.

I went back to house doing my own thing.

He feel asleep at the kitchen table for awhile... showered and dressed in work clothes.

I went about my business putting on shoes to go with outfit... nice wedges and the whole ensemble is a 180... I only dress like that when out of town or special occasion. I want looking to see if he noticed but at some point we bumped spaces in the kitchen and I caught his eyes on ME... but it was a quick glance to my stomach... which is not as flat as it used to be... but I'm working on it. And the outfit helped hide a little. I was wearing a tight top that showed cleavage and showed off my big knockers... that I know he loves. If the extra weight had gone to my but not a big deal but I have always known he doesnt like a big belly on a man or woman.

My last big mistake was saying if he would take care of the dogs when I am gone in March... frack... future talk. He was grumpy in his response... then could S18 do it...then saying I dont know where I am going to be. That was prob my biggest mistake of the day.

I thought he was leaving but he settled down in his recliner and started online gaming... something g he told me he quit doing. I left him be and got ready to leave.

I asked if it was ok to leave dogs in house... he said he thought so and wanted to know how long I be gone... I said an hr. He said he was going to X... I'm sure to get the rest of the stuff needed to finish garage... he hadn't been in a hurry before but I think he wants no reason to return.

I'm in a parking lot to give myself space so I quit making mistakes

You've already told him you want to be with him.

You've already told him you don't want divorce and you feel you can change. Don't tell him anymore. That's not working. As it says in DR, don't do more of the same.

Now show him. But show him by doing it for you.

Stop asking his permission to do things. Stop asking him if it's okay to leave the dogs inside or if he can help you with them. Instead, say something like, "I'm heading out. Dogs in or out?" or "I'm heading out. Put the dogs out when you leave."
"We will have to make arrangements for dogs in March. How can you help?"

As far as an AP goes, I asked my husband straight out if he had one and he said no. He had been with someone for a year already. Integrity and affairs don't go together.

Make a playlist of awesome songs that make you happy and feel empowered.

When he looks at your stomach, instead of feeling less than think "what a jerk. I can do better."

Flip the script. Think of something he did unkind to you today and realize he doesn't treat you very well.

Yes, you made mistakes. Well, he's not exactly a knight in shining armor right now either. Because you haven't forgiven yourself yet you keep beating yourself up. He is acting like a big fat victim and you definitely want to stop playing into that.

You've got this. Start telling yourself you do.

Great post. One other thing to remember KitCat. Every time you remind him that you want to be with him, that you don't want a D and that you are willing to change for him, you cement yourself as his Plan B. As I told you in my story yesterday, I was plan B.......for nearly 20 years. It is a terrible place to be. Be no one's plan B. And the only chance you have of him coming back believe it or not is to think he is losing you.

[job]

KC,

I went back and read your very first thread that you posted. Your h has a history of having affairs, both PA and EA, throughout his marriage. Leopards do not change their spots, as one poster posted.

I think your h never truly warmed up to the idea of remaining in the relationship from several years ago. I think he's been biding his time and now that there is someone else in the picture, he's going to use her as an "exist affair" to leave the marriage. I honestly do not think that this man was very sincere in trying to make it work. He may have said and done some of the "right" things that he thought you wanted to hear, but his heart hasn't been in trying to work on the issues that may have come up in the second marriage.

His issues run deep and unfortunately, he's a repeat offender when it comes to affairs. I know you love this man, but you've got to let him go and focus on you, your health and your child. If he straightens himself out and wants to reconcile, then he would need IC and prove himself to be honest, transparent in all things and earn your trust.

Let him go, let God have him for a while. He knows you are desperate and in a panic over him leaving. In many ways, he may even get a thrill out of the fact that he may have two women fighting over him. Let him go so that the ow gets the his moody self in her face all of the time. By letting him go, they spend more time together and start to see all of the warts and bad behavior because people tend to put on a good front when they first meet. If you step away, all of that "in your face time together will wear thing eventually because life really doesn't change because you still have to work, bills to pay and the normal day-to-day stuff continues". Give them all of that while you are working on you and taking care of your son.

You do realize that all of that FB garbage was put out there so that you would see it. They are rubbing this stuff in your face to get to you and make you so angry that you'll put him and his belongings out on the street. Don't help him. If he wants to leave, he's going to have to be a man and do it on his own.

Now about that puppy. If that puppy was purchased for him, then you need to consider several things...1) he needs to take the pup w/him because it is his; 2) if the puppy stays w/you, is your son going to be responsible for the pup's care; and 3) how do you propose to take care of a puppy when you were ungodly hours? Something has to give in this area because puppies require a lot of time and work. So, this is something you need to think about.

As we all have stated...focus on YOU! Try detaching more and stop asking him questions or attempting to make small talk w/him. If he wants to talk to you, he will find you and talk. He's a roommate for the time being. He fired you as a wife, so leave him be. You are not his mother...allow him to figure things out for himself and please stop making excuses for his behavior. He's the one out there having the affair...not you.

[KitCat]

Hard day--him confirming he's staying with a female friend who wants to be more than friends. I wish more situations were turned around by the LBS bravely putting themselves out there like you did. It's a shame that, by this point, a big chunk of them has already moved on. You did spur him to share his feelings. If he does that again, remember Validation is usually more effective than Disagreement.

H: Stop. You lost interest in me.
You: You felt like I wasn't interest in you.

With no minor kids in common, and this being your second rodeo, I wonder if you don't deserve better. No need to decide, of course, because either way Detaching and GAL are the key next DB steps.

CW ---- EXCELLENT!!!

Why weren't you in my head this morning!!! I got tongued. I had tried to validate him just prior to that statement and he cut me off with at stop.

So everything was spinning... I think when he tries to say something that isn't how I was feeling its a gut reaction. I must practice practice practice AGREEING WITH HIM!!

CW - I love this man... not with infatuation love... I love for what we have been through together. That on my hardest days... the ones where he is pushing my buttons and probably taking me for granted... I want no one else by my side. In December he took the time to wrap a small package and then kept wrapping in bigger box after box with plenty of packing peanuts... Does that sound like a man who doesn't love his wife? Just 30 days ago he on his own accord shopped for yarn for me and it wasn't cheap... a total surprise.

My H did warn me... he recently said his needs were not being met. AND, rather than take a moment and look my H in the face and say I'm so sorry you that way and we need to address it.... I heard what he said and in my head knew we had date night tickets for an event... that would be the night he would be mine... he was tired and fell asleep...

I realize I'm terrible at communication. Rather than saying I'm looking forward to riding season as I've got this great place lined up... I just kept it to myself and was saving it for a date night. H likes the boat for his down time but I was looking forward to asking to go a couple of times so we could spend time together but again its in my head. I should have just texted him randomly... looking forward to going fishing a time or two this summer. UGH... why did I not let him in????

[KitCat]

Stop asking his permission to do things. Stop asking him if it's okay to leave the dogs inside or if he can help you with them. Instead, say something like, "I'm heading out. Dogs in or out?" or "I'm heading out. Put the dogs out when you leave."
"We will have to make arrangements for dogs in March. How can you help?"

THIS ^^^^^^^ YES, I get it!!! I need to make statements before a question! Got it - this is good!

[SteveLW]

And KC finds even more blame to pile on herself.

So being bad at communication justifies going back on marriage vows, lying to your wife, and cheating with an OW?

Nothing you've told us justifies what he is doing. Nothing. It reminds me of when my wife tried to be upset with me for snooping. I said to her "So snooping is worse than there being something for me to find??" She had to agree that it wasn't.

You're making a ton of excuses for him. You know what is a good exercise? Stepping out of your shoes and pretending you're a friend observing this from outside the relationship.

If your friend was you, and her husband was behaving this way, what would you say to her?

[KitCat]

KC,

I went back and read your very first thread that you posted. Your h has a history of having affairs, both PA and EA, throughout his marriage. Leopards do not change their spots, as one poster posted.

This is true. But he told me something today that makes what he said more believable that he hasn't yet... doesn't mean he won't. He goes out drinking and may make a bad decision if she is throwing herself at him. If he really is in an A the truth will eventually come out and he will have to live with the fact he lied to me.

I think your h never truly warmed up to the idea of remaining in the relationship from several years ago. I think he's been biding his time and now that there is someone else in the picture, he's going to use her as an "exist affair" to leave the marriage. I honestly do not think that this man was very sincere in trying to make it work. He may have said and done some of the "right" things that he thought you wanted to hear, but his heart hasn't been in trying to work on the issues that may have come up in the second marriage.

Maybe... but honestly I feel he was very content with EVERYTHING as long as his need for physical affection was met. My H works LONG hours and many days without a break -- FOR US. He is sleep deprived and gets grumpy. I would take that personally and withdraw when I should have been saying its the stress and lack of sleep.

Let him go, let God have him for a while. He knows you are desperate and in a panic over him leaving. In many ways, he may even get a thrill out of the fact that he may have two women fighting over him.

Yes... and maybe that explains something else he is doing??? I will write another post shortly about the rest of today.

You do realize that all of that FB garbage was put out there so that you would see it. They are rubbing this stuff in your face to get to you and make you so angry that you'll put him and his belongings out on the street. Don't help him. If he wants to leave, he's going to have to be a man and do it on his own.

Most likely... he is probably all over the place and if he is staying with a female who is into him.. his ego is probably over the top and rubbing it in.

Now about that puppy. If that puppy was purchased for him, then you need to consider several things...1) he needs to take the pup w/him because it is his; 2) if the puppy stays w/you, is your son going to be responsible for the pup's care; and 3) how do you propose to take care of a puppy when you were ungodly hours? Something has to give in this area because puppies require a lot of time and work. So, this is something you need to think about.

Yes, he is okay with taking the puppy when he goes but its unfair that he is doing NOTHING to help take care of puppy now. Puppy is doing okay but certainly I would feel better if he is walked and played with more. I'm attached to the puppy as is the other dog. I'm worried about sending off the puppy with H if he is not bonding with him now. I think having a dog will help him. BUT, I was very clear---- if you cannot handle the puppy then you must bring him back here. He agreed.

As we all have stated...focus on YOU! Try detaching more and stop asking him questions or attempting to make small talk w/him. If he wants to talk to you, he will find you and talk. He's a roommate for the time being. He fired you as a wife, so leave him be. You are not his mother...allow him to figure things out for himself and please stop making excuses for his behavior. He's the one out there having the affair...not you.

I had a decent day overall. I talked with a good friend. Had a nice long drive on a pretty but cold day. Met up with family group at restaurant for a nice visit. They asked about H. I lied and said he was at work. Not the place to have that conversation!

[KitCat]

And KC finds even more blame to pile on herself.

So being bad at communication justifies going back on marriage vows, lying to your wife, and cheating with an OW?

Nothing you've told us justifies what he is doing. Nothing. It reminds me of when my wife tried to be upset with me for snooping. I said to her "So snooping is worse than there being something for me to find??" She had to agree that it wasn't.

You're making a ton of excuses for him. You know what is a good exercise? Stepping out of your shoes and pretending you're a friend observing this from outside the relationship.

If your friend was you, and her husband was behaving this way, what would you say to her?

I see what you are saying...

I wasn't saying that so much as to berat myself but kind of an eye opener... THIS is something I need to work on. I need to work on getting out of my head and communicating things better. I am supposed to work on myself right???

[KitCat]

So while I struggled and stumbled DBing this morning with H... I did a better job later.

I had plans so I was leaving as he finished another repair in garage. I said "have a nice night", he grumble something back and I got into my car.

He came over and asked me to roll down the window.

H: The other day you mention being embarrassed. I didn't know what that meant. I will unfriend your family and mutual friends on FB. What you tell your family should be up to you.
Me: I was embarrassed and ashamed of my behavior in regards to you. You don't need to unfriend based on that, but what you do is your choice. Right now I'm not saying a whole lot to my family.
H: [walks away in garage back is turned mumbling something again about unfriending family/friends]
Me: Its your choice if you do.
Me: Does that include me? [okay somebody smack me with a nerf bat]
H: I don't know... rambles on

It's weird that he would have that discussion with me. He simply could do it without a word. He wants to separate everything and if he is not wearing his wedding ring it would make sense he would drop me off his FB.

So I leave the house realizing as I'm down the street I did not know what was happening with 3rd repair. So I call H and he explains and I ask if he can order online. He said he was looking into it... I said great! THANKS! BYE --- I ended the phone call. Yeah Me!!

Later I'm still driving to my destination and H calls me. I was on the other line so I'm stumbling to get off speaker phone and ask him to hold for a second while I get him switched. H then asks is there a problem. I said NOPE. I just know you don't like being on speaker phone.

H continued to talk about product and cost and moving money over. He also said what have I done about a cell phone. We at first had talked about replacing S18 phone... I just hadn't gotten to it yet. Then H said I thought we decided that you would get a new phone and give S18 your old phone. I was like I could do that. He asked if I was okay to stay on the phone while he finished looking up stuff. I said yes... I'm still driving [I did not volunteer where I was going] Once it seemed like H got this garage product ordered I said THANKS! BYE. I again was the first to hang up. YEAH ME AGAIN!!

So nearly at my destination... AND H calls again. I say hang on trying to get you off speaker phone again. He says don't worry about just a couple of things I want to go over with you before I leave. MY HEART SINKS... is he going to tell me over the phone that the divorce paper work is on the table???? This is NOT cool. I know he was asking about his mail.

H: Just 2 things.
Me: okay.
H: The receipt for the garage product is on the table.
Me: Thanks.
H: I moved the dog kennel back [it had been moved from its location for drywall work]
Me: Thanks for letting me know.. BYE

So Yeah Me a third time I ended the call short!!!! But the call was 100% UNNECESSARY!! I didn't need the paperwork. If he left it at the table it would have been the first thing I saw upon coming home... nothing else is at my spot at the table. He frequently leaves stuff there that he thinks I need and never tells me. He may ask later if I got it but never notifies me. AND - I could clearly see that you moved the dog kennel back to its spot when I got home. He goes days without talking to me. He knows I have no idea where he is - doesn't have the courtesy to say I'll be by Saturday morning to do garage work and laundry... just comes and goes as he pleases. So why did he make this call??? I ended it quickly.

When I got home later he clearly took an overnight bag with 1 change of clothes and an extra shirt. I have done this mans laundry for 10yr... I know his half of the closet.

Additionally, I have already mentioned that I forgot to log out of FB and Wednesday he was able to get on my FB account and not only surfed all over it but read my messages to male high school friend who I have been close to for many years... never anything there. I'm pouring my heart out to this friend - fears anxieties, what I failed to do etc. All laid out for him to read and he did.

Today ---- I found out as he was getting online to order the garage stuff he tried to get onto my FB account. I was logged out thankfully. He tried to log on 3 times.

Why is he spying on me????

Is reading about my personal pain giving him an ego boost???

[KitCat]

Affair confirm but not by H

[Traveler]

Sorry to hear the affair is confirmed, KitCat. ((Hugs))

[KitCat]

Affair confirm but not by H

[KitCat]

H was here at 10am... he did his laundry and when putting stuff away said he needed to go back to Lowe's . He needed a bulb for the closet. One of the two bulbs has been out for months.. I never said a word. He is fixing all by himsef???

That left me confused... why is he doing this? Well after our talk last night he just wants to help. I'm doing all the dog care and he is trying to find a place for the dog.

He is still saying that he has to get right with himself before he is with anyone else


But the writing is literally on the wall.

He is speaking in absolutes.... I never could get sleep on Wednesdays, you were home and always too much noise.

I have a small parrot that stays in the room outside the bedroom
It made noise and he would get angry... in would get angry when he moved bird. I didnt thin it was any less noisy in the entry way or laundry room.

Too must dust and debris to leave in kids room with carpet. Since this BD... I've been keeping her in a kids bathroom. Super tight fit but doable.

I've had this bird longer than anything, 26yr. At one point H and Injad discussion that I just cant toss out pet I've had forn26yr and she really is at the end of her life expectancy... H said unknown but I thought you could take her to work or something.

I have donen180s... he has picked up on showing him more respect, he has noticed I stopped knitting... these were his own observations .

The online gaming was an escape... when he first got into it again I told him it raised red flags because i kn we ut was an escape in his first M. I wanted him to not do it... at first it wasnt mich but grew over time to where he stayed he just loked his down time and needed to chill... I wanted him to relax he deserved that.

He said he does not consider himself married right now. I am free to date... he just doesnt want to know about it.

He said part of him wants to get this over and done with like ripping off a bandage and the other part of him just doesnt know. When I talk of doing the 1yr S before D... H gets defensive and feels backed into a corner... he feels I will draw this this out longer than it needs to be

[SteveLW]

KC, I would 180 on the showing him respect. Sorry, but no one deserves respect when they are cheating on their spouse. I don't care who they are. To me cheating is the lowest form of scum behavior a person can engage in.

I implore you to please please please just focus on yourself right now. There is nothing you can say or do to get your H back, he has to come back of his own accord. Even then I think you should really think long and hard about allowing him to come back.

I've written before about the rose-colored glasses we LBS put on. Almost all of us do this. Before BD, truth be told, we weren't really that happy ourselves. But after we get BD'd something flips in us and we think our spouse and our marriage was the best thing we ever had, and we can't imagine living without it. I know I did that in my own sitch. My MR relationship was awful. I was very unhappy. But when I found out my W was in an EA, and I initiated BD, suddenly I couldn't imagine being happy without her and our MR.

Likely there is a good deal of that going on for you. If you go back prior to BD it sounds like there was a lot of problems and sources of stress. Your work schedules are less than ideal. Having to stop the entire household for one spouse to sleep during the day is always stressful. (I remember my dad being on midnights when I was kid and it was awful!). Factor in kids and pets and the normal everyday life minutia, and what you end up with is two spouses so stressed out that their MR could never be a happy one. I think if you look back objectively at your MR pre-BD you will see exactly what I am talking about.

KC, please do what I asked you to, and step back from your sitch, look at it objectively like a friend would. Think about what you would say to a friend that was going through what you currently are going through. What would you say to that friend? What would you advise them to do? It is amazing what a chance of perspective can do for you.

If you read this forum at all you will see that I am staunchly anti-D. I think D is a moral and ethical affront to society. However, when there is cheating involved I think D is wholly justified for the LBS. The ball is now in your court. I know you think this man walks on water.......but do you really want to spend the rest of your life with someone that is behaving as he is?

[KitCat]

Steve85

Yes... it must move forward... I would still prefer S over D... not sure why

I have been unfriended and blocked on FB.

He is done with our M... At times I can see he is so emotionally wound up... He states that part of him just wants it over quickly and fast like ripping off a bandage... and the other part he just doesn't know...

I believed in his confusion.

He has been all over the place from Ahole to nice.

I guess time will tell. He is picking up dissolution papers today and he said he was going to file for S... I asked if it needed to be done now? He said no... he has no place to go so he could hold off filing until he has place to go.

Kick him out or keep working amicable separation?

[SteveLW]

Go read what I just wrote to Drh2001.

[KitCat]

UGH>>>> I do not know how to search this fourm

[SteveLW]

The forum sorts based on the most recent responses, so it was only a few threads below yours, but this is what I wrote:

Drh, I like your attitude, very well done with your current approach. I am assuming she is not in the MBR? If it continues to be too stressful, at some point you might want to discuss with her accelerating her plan to move out. I'd even entertain asking her to leave since she is openly in a PA. That will do two things.

1) It will show her that you are ready to move on
2) It will make her put up or shut up

Do not underestimate the power of #2. I know in my own sitch, calling my W's bluff really made her stop and consider what she was doing. And it caused her to question how committed she really was to her walkaway plan.

BUT, do not do #2 with the expectation that it will wake her up. You have to be 100%, or close to it, sure you are ready to move on.

[job]

New Thread:

I don't want a divorce II ---NEW THREAD Part 3