Hello All,
WW asked for S 5 months ago. Married 13 years, together 16, 2 kids. I put life and kids above R and W was not happy.
She has felt lack of support, respect, career falling short, etc.
W started working out and going out with new girlfriends. I felt disrespected and things deteriorated.
I started DB 3 months ago after begging and such for a bit before giving space. We share the house on a split schedule. Share finances. I question the sharing, but not sure how splitting things would help DB, but promote a D instead.
We communicate well now and do things with the kids. Mostly business, some non-business. W is angry and very guarded. I feel as if I provided the family well, but I also get areas I fell short. I do want W and family back. I fight anger still and work on GAL, but hard with our sharing situation. I workout, run, ride. No OM to my knowledge, but who knows for sure.
W is working on herself and time will tell if she works on our R. I have known we had issues in the past and buried them thinking things were OK.
One question is she took her ring off early on after she didn't know where I was one night. I was vague but doing nothing wrong.
I have kept mine on and feel like I should to save the M, but I also fight wanting to take it off to help GAL.
I definitely haven't fully detached. I find that line hard to figure out. Want vs Need, etc.
We also have a big trip planned with kids (before S) this year that we have to commit to soon. As of now we are going.
Anyways,
thanks for any and all advice
Welcome to the Newcomers' Forum. I'm pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting for you to check out.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Keep your ring on.
Keep working on yourself. Change the way you interact. You are the ROCK.
As long as both of you are being financially responsible, keep them together. The first sign of anything irresponsible, get things split ASAP.
How old are your kids?
Thank you R2C.
Kids are 12 and 6, so really tough.
I don't know what the future holds, but have to give it all I got.
No major signs either way yet. Small positives and need to focus on myself and realize this is going to take a long time.
yes,
Most things are counter intuitive. Learn as much as you can here and make the changes as quick as possible. Most don't. They let fear control them.
I'm sorry you're here Greenman. My BD happened 2 years ago and my H lived here 6 months between BD and moving out, and our kids were 12 and 8 at the time, so I sense some similarities.
I have kept mine on and feel like I should to save the M, but I also fight wanting to take it off to help GAL.
I would not take your ring off. Once it's off, it becomes really really hard to put it back on. Quick question - How does taking your ring off help with GAL?
I definitely haven't fully detached. I find that line hard to figure out. Want vs Need, etc.
You are right, detachment is a difficult one to figure out. If you are strong enough and you do so without expectations, then friendly neighbour or work colleague is a good way to think about it. If you ran into your neighbour in a grocery store you'd say hello. If your work colleague asked if they could borrow your stapler you'd lend them your stapler. What you wouldn't do is go to the grocery store in the hopes of seeing your neighbour, or walk over to your colleagues desk every hour and ask them if they need to borrow your stapler again. Being a friendly neighbour or colleague with someone you want to be in an R with brings with it expectation.
What if you went to the grocery store and they didn't say hello, or if they asked someone else for a stapler. Or, worse if they start blaming you for the grocery store being out of something they want, or the stapler you lent them being broken.
I know, my analogies have got a bit elaborate ... I do have a point though.
Your W will blame you for everything going wrong in her life and you have to have the strength to listen to it calmly and not bite at every insult and accusation. The validation thread has good techniques and resources to help you with this.
Being a friendly neighbour can lead to expectations. You have to drop the expectations otherwise you will go crazy working out why she said this or she did that. She will do what she does. GAL. Meditate. Listen to pod casts about releasing anxiety and negativity.
We also have a big trip planned with kids (before S) this year that we have to commit to soon. As of now we are going.
As you say, as of now, you are going on this trip. Don't initiate the conversation because it will lead to an R conversation and she is not ready to have one yet. That being said, if she comes to you and says she wants to cancel, then let her know that you understand her reasons and will cancel if that is what she wants.
greenman you've already got some good feedback here. I am a firm believer in the LBS wearing their ring,no matter what the WAS does, since they are still married. You mention it hinders GAL? How? GAL is not going out and meeting girls. It is staying busy. sandi and others are clear that you should avoid the bar scene at all costs. You know what is worse than R problems with a spouse? R problems with a spouse AND an OP.
As far as detachment, we all struggle with it. Every ounce of our fiber says pursue. Pressure. We think pursuit is how you "win" someone. We hate limbo and therefore pressure to get the WAS to make a choice. You are doing the right things here, and are on your way to detachment. Just remember, do not react to her words and deeds. That is true detachment. It isn't that her anger and criticism won't hurt. It isn't that her going out as a party girl, or having an EA r PA won't bother you. It is that no matter what she says or does you remain even. You remain upbeat. You remain fulfilled, You remain outwardly happy. Pleased.
As far as the trip. If you can get mostly detached, then I would say go. That might be contrary to DBing, but I see it as an opportunity to show her the new you.
I see no mention of IC. WASs are notoriously suspicious of the LBS' changes. IC is not only a way to cement your changes, but to show your WAS that you are serious about your changes. I'd seriously consider getting into IC if you are not already.
Steve
Yes I have gotten some good feedback and much appreciated.
I am definitely keeping the ring on. I caused some confusion with the ring affecting GAL. I think I meant affecting detachment as the ring is a constant reminder. However, the ring shows my commitment and what I am fighting for, so its on.
I do have an IC and the W knows this. W knows I am committed and changing, but as you say, is skeptical that they will last.
The trip is happening. I am looking at it the same way as you say. An opportunity to show change and have a good time. As far as detachment level...getting better, but I have to be honest in that I am still far from that. Getting better with no expectations. Still trying to grasp wanting someone/something and having no expectations and no pursuit.
We got into a R talk the other day, initiated by her regarding an event. I did say some things as I kind of had to, but mostly listened and validated. Overall, I was prepared and saw no negative effects.
Any R talk we have always end up with the idea that W thinks I can't change to her liking long term. All I can do is change what I think I need to and see what happens.
She needs to change also, but obviously cannot go there anytime soon.
Regards...
Most LBS's talk their way out of the relationship by having R talks where they try to talk their WAS back into the R. Learn some validating phrases, learn how to withhold your "advice" for now.
If she states that she doesn't think you can change long term, just validate,or maybe ask a question if you don't understand. I can certainly understand why she is doubtful, it's hard for people to make changes.
Definitely don't discuss her changes yet. It might be many months or longer before she is ready.
Steve85,
I saw you mentioned LRT was required on another post for an LBS with an OM involved.
I have always wondered if LRT is required in my case or what line I ride on. No OM to my knowledge and no working on the R by the W. I am trying to keep hope against clear separation intentions by W. I am trying to GAL with myself and kids.
We do limited texting (almost daily about something coordination wise), some calls, events with kids, etc. See each other frequently on kids events and swaps of shared household.
I always respond, maybe not right away. Effectively I guess co-parenting.
No, LRT is for a WAS that has moved out, and is not being very receptive to anything the LBS is trying to do. Have you read DR? There is a whole section on LRT, and the criteria for when it should be applied.
So LRT is less about OM, and more about the behavior of the WAS. Your sitch may or may not be appropriate for LRT. I'd really like for you to continue posting and give us more details. But also you need to read DR ASAP.
This has been labeled as an explanation of the LRT by JamesJohn several years back.
I see it as a pretty fluid DBing state of mind, where DB rubber meets the road. And he states that in his last paragraph...
IF you can get yourself to this point....you are in good shape
Try to not label what is or isn't. Do what works for YOU regardless the term...
The "Last Resort Technique" can be one of the most misunderstood, most misused, most feared, and most underutilized of all of Michele's tools.
The LRT, as I see it, isn't so much a defined set of actions, patterns, or a "plan". To me, it's more of a lifestyle, an attitude, and a state of mind.
To me, it's the infamous "Dobson letter", the one that is written and re-written at least 10 times, truly taken to heart within yourself, then torn up and never sent. If you have the right state of mind, your partner will KNOW you have set both them, and yourself, free by your words, actions, and attitudes, without ever giving them the letter.
It's when you finally take your life back, knowing that the DB techniques you've been learning and practicing are mostly for YOU and the quality of YOUR life. If you happen to draw your partner back to you, well, that's an added benefit.
It's when you are able to quit "reacting" to everything your partner does, or doesn't say or do. You begin taking the actions required to make your life situations better for YOU.
It's when you can stop letting fear guide your actions, and can open your mind up to a whole new world full of solutions to the situations you face in your daily life.
It's when "going dark" isn't merely done to prove to your partner that their life will SUCK without you, while you're hanging around for them to "wake up", to call or show up to profess their undying love for you. It's when you can use the "dark" times to work on yourself, and take a much needed break from the chaos. When you can re-center yourself UPON yourself, and not them or your relationship with them.
It's when you are no longer willing to put your life on hold while you are "waiting" for your partner to "recover" from their MLC, depression, an on-going affair, their lack of love for you, or whatever. You realize that you are in charge of your own life, that YOU are responsible for YOU, and you don't have to sit around in limbo until THEY change. You totally quit playing the "blame game". It's when you realize that you are not a "victim" to what life deals to you.
It's when the dreaded word "divorce" no longer sends your heart racing and mind reeling. After all, most of us are in a position where our relationships ain't too great right now, or could be a helluva lot better. Wouldn't you really love to "divorce" yourself from THAT relationship, and start a new one with your partner that's even better than what you could ever hope or imagine?
It's when you realize that your partner is a flesh and blood human being, that they have their own faults, doubts, demons, and fears, just the same as you. When you can begin to let go of trying to control the way they think and feel. When you learn to let them "own" their thoughts and feelings without assuming that YOU are responsible for, or have control over, those thoughts and feelings. When you can not necessarily "understand" them, but truly "accept" them.
It's when you can learn to be humble enough to admit that maybe this really ISN'T all about you, and you can stop taking all of your partner's actions and moods personally. When you can let them talk to you, vent their anger, thoughts, and feelings to you, without you feeling that it's all your fault, and that you can "fix" it, and that you can make it all better. Or that they really WANT you to make it all better. Or, that you even have the power to do that.
It's when you stop trying to "push" or "pull" your partner back into the relationship with you, and begin to "draw" them back to you. When you strive to become an irresistible magnet that no person can stop from being attracted to. Someone that makes a positive difference in the lives of everyone they touch. Someone that can make your partner feel that their lives are less joyful, less fulfilling, if they decide to spend it apart from you, to not have you near them. That you are someone that can add meaning to their lives just by knowing you. That can be an example of being the best that you can be.
It seems that thinking about the LRT can bring many negative, doom-ridden, and "final" thoughts to mind. I encourage everyone to "reframe" these thoughts, to put a positive spin on the concept, to see the actual benefits of this tool. (Or, maybe, we should have this "state of mind" FIRST instead of saving it for LAST?!)
I know that there's a lot of times I wish that I would have seen this tool in a more positive light sooner in my journey. As for me, it may be something I want to use as an "On Going Technique" instead of a "Last Resort Technique"!
LRT, per Michele, is designed for when your spouse says he or she wants a divorce and is serious.
Has your W said that? I don't think you've mentioned that.
I have no doubt she is serious, as she asked for a separation, but no D words as of yet.
Also, no benefit to a D for her right now, so who knows.
Stupid question here.
W is going on an extended, potentially dangerous trip (by choice), I am staying with the kids.
I can see things being awkward before she leaves. Haven't hugged since BD.
We have been communicating well, but no plans to work on MR and W is clear publicly we are S.
I have some urge to attempt a hug, but is this just a bad idea.
Stupid question here.
W is going on an extended, potentially dangerous trip (by choice), I am staying with the kids.
I can see things being awkward before she leaves. Haven't hugged since BD.
We have been communicating well, but no plans to work on MR and W is clear publicly we are S.
I have some urge to attempt a hug, but is this just a bad idea.
Have you ever been kicked in the nuts? Did it feel good?
If you are prepared for that to happen (emotionally, not physically) then go ahead and lean in for a hug.
Likely three things will happen, I will list them in order of likelihood:
1) She will hug you back, but it will be a hug like she would give her brother.
2) She will avoid the hug all together.
3) She will hug you back like a W would hug her H before she goes off for an extended trip.
1 is 49% likely.
2 is also 49% likely.
3 is 2% likely.
Note, 1 and 2 will have you feeling like you got emotionally kicked in the nuts.
What Steve said. WAS's quickly master what we refer to as the "side arm hug", kind of like a guy hugs another guy when they haven't seen each other in a while. It's a bro hug with almost no body contact. When a WAS gives you one of those hugs you actually feel worse than if you had gotten no hug at all. So yeah, just don't. If she goes for a hug then fine, hug her back.
Oh, almost forgot, another WAS favorite is the "back pat hug". The LBS goes in for a frontal hug that the WAS can't avoid, so they hug but start patting you on the back like they are burping a baby. Talk about making you feel like a charity case, LOL!
Avoided the HUG and it wasn't going to happen anyways obvious at the time.
W is on her trip. Question. W reaches out via text on occasion with a check on her status or something.
Keeping me more involved (or crumbing) to some extent vs some previous trips after BD.
I am always torn if I should drive a conversation or not. Ask more about her trip. Offer info about things back home, kids, etc.
I always drive them because I am interested, but wonder if ideal. W will drive, me I may have to initiate with a question.
I kept responses short and held back info last time (note wasn't asked for any info) and then felt bad.
I guess the answer may be Do What Works, but if I always drive, where do we end up. Or is drive after W initiates normal.
Or maybe I am over analyzing things.
Do what works for you. If she texts you, wait a bit before responding and only respond to what she is inquiring about. If you want to test the waters, the next time, ask how the trip is going and see if she'll open up a bit. If she doesn't, then you'll know not to ask again.
And...yes, you are over analyzing just a bit.
Try one method, then try the other and see if there is a better outcome one way or the other. Job wrote it much better than I somewhere in my threads but basically try something, if it makes things worse, you know to avoid it for the near future.
I've found engaging the W at first was not a good move however now it seems like the right thing to do for the sitch. It all changes depending on her feelings at the time. I was even told "dont talk to someone when they arent in the right mind", like she legit knew that an R talk or engaging her would push us in the wrong direction.
Many of us are scared that one wrong move will cause the D. Myself included. Several wrong moves on many of our ends yet we are still in limbo, some piecing.
Best of luck, continuing to follow your sitch with hope.
Hi greenman, sorry you are here but I am sure you will get some fantastic help. I have read your sitch and wanted to add two minor things.
1. I have suffered the 49% probable feeling-less hug and it only contributed to my emotional spiraling in a moment when I needed to focus on myself as much as possible. I would say let her come to you but only you know her and the situation on your skin.
2. I have read with great interest about the ring. I wanted to keep mine on but my WAW made it sound as if I was being crazy and disrespectful to her. As if me wearing the ring was a tie to her and a lack of awareness of what was going on in our M. We are physically separated now but I want to wear the ring as my commitment to our M, would you say it makes sense to put it on?
stay strong, do things that make you happy as if you were a teenager again and let her come to you. Those are my 2 cents.
Hey Pack,
Pretty controlling of your W to ask you to take it off, but I am sure that happens often. Maybe the pros here know what you should do in that case of being asked to take it off. My W hasn't said a thing about mine, but I know she notices.
I think it is your decision. You should keep it on as long as you are married if you want.
To be honest I struggle with the decision daily to keep it on. Trying to detach LOVINGLY is so hard. The ring is a reminder of everything both good and bad. I am fighting for my M and my kids, so I have to keep it on. I guess that is the way I look at it...despite all these emotions telling me otherwise and why just me.
Not sure what the W would think if I suddenly took it off after months keeping it on. Always wondered.
good luck
hi greenman,
yes it was very harsh but it was during our domestic separation (that I never respected because I am as stubborn as a brick) and she shouted that I was crazy for now looking at pictures and wanting to keep the ring. I talked then to some friends and they said well if she wants you to respect her then take it off and show her you understand the old M is dead. So I did and I put it on a little box at my nightstand. I regret it everyday but I fear she is going to despise me for it if I wear it as she did when she was home, almost like saying in which kind of fantasy do you think you live to keep it, I do not want to be with you and our M is dead.
She also decided when it was time to tell our families, when it was time to tell our friends, when I had to move out of our marital house to save on rent, she decided it was nonsense for me to move back to Spain and yes basically she has been on the wheel ever since. But you are right, the ring is a reminder of our commitment, my determination to remain her H and at the same time is a reminder of all that has fallen apart and is broken now.
I will wear it again, even if it is until we reach D, where she seems to be driving to. GAL like a madman! Thanks a lot greenman
When you have a decision to make, either choice A or B (or C or D etc), she will not be happy with either one you choose. So forget about how she will react. Make your choice on what is the right thing to do. Make your choice based off of your core values. Make your choice based on recommendations here. Make your decision based on what is best for your kids. Validate her emotions. Don't feed the fire.
Thanks Ready. I keep wanting to feed the fire I guess. Going to stick with my core values and try to avoid my emotions. Be the rock as you say here.
Thanks Ready. I keep wanting to feed the fire I guess. Going to stick with my core values and try to avoid my emotions. Be the rock as you say here.
You kind of have to be a Jedi in DBing. Don't trust your eyes (or ears) and don't react emotionally.
Need some schooling. Invite WAW to nice events with kids or not.
In the past, I say we are going to X, let me know if you want to go. Typically, W ends up going and we have a good family time.
However, there is a 50/50 chance I get a kick in the (heart) with a social media post as if I am not there.
I have been letting it go and not saying anything.
If I had a future event that is really cool, now I am torn on even inviting. IC thinks the time together is good and if I get kicked in the nuts I should say something next time.
I thought well why even ask if I am going to get that effect again. So if I don't invite I will probably hear that and if I do I might get hurt. Although, maybe I shouldn't care.
hi again greenman,
My sitch might be totally different to you but my experience on that sense has been bad. Sometimes when I was going to be in a park or at an important Christmas parade alike event I would politely tell my W I would be there in case she wanted to join and would understand if she did not. ALL the times I got ignorance, not even a comment about these plans.
After messaging with Sandi in my thread she made me realize I was using these opportunities to reach to her even when my intentions were that we both enjoyed the happiness of our children at these events AT A POINT SHE WAS NOT OPEN TO IT. It made me think, a lot, I do not need to use my children to reach the heart of my W if that is ever to happen. So I stopped doing it, I am working on me and my social life, I have now assumed my M is over and I will let her come to me if that is ever to happen. Again, my sitch might be twisted compared to yours but read her, before you try it 10 times as I did.
stay strong greenman, give her space if in doubt
Need some schooling. Invite WAW to nice events with kids or not.
In the past, I say we are going to X, let me know if you want to go. Typically, W ends up going and we have a good family time.
However, there is a 50/50 chance I get a kick in the (heart) with a social media post as if I am not there.
I have been letting it go and not saying anything.
If I had a future event that is really cool, now I am torn on even inviting. IC thinks the time together is good and if I get kicked in the nuts I should say something next time.
I thought well why even ask if I am going to get that effect again. So if I don't invite I will probably hear that and if I do I might get hurt. Although, maybe I shouldn't care.
Have you ever heard the definition of insanity? If so, how does that apply to the above post?
Hey Greenman.
Sorry you are here. My W BD was about 3 weeks ago and I am an absolute mess.
I am interested on how you have split the living arrangements?
Also have you told the kids? What did you tell them?
Also are you doing stuff with the kids together? How does that work for you?
Have you ever heard the definition of insanity? If so, how does that apply to the above post?
I take that as don't invite.
Have you ever heard the definition of insanity? If so, how does that apply to the above post?
I take that as don't invite.
Correct!
Hey Greenman.
Sorry you are here. My W BD was about 3 weeks ago and I am an absolute mess.
I am interested how you have split the living arrangements?
Also have you told the kids? What did you tell them?
Also are you doing stuff with the kids together? How does that work for you?
Lots of questions but I am in a simular sitch
Hey Greenman.
Sorry you are here. My W BD was about 3 weeks ago and I am an absolute mess.
I am interested how you have split the living arrangements?
Also have you told the kids? What did you tell them?
Also are you doing stuff with the kids together? How does that work for you?
Lots of questions but I am in a simular sitch
Hey Bud,
If you read my initial post, you might get a little more info. Splitting the residence 50/50 on a schedule where kids live. Don't ever just move out.
Outside, we live with friends/family.
We told kids because we had to of course. Very tough and they are doing ok, but it affects them sure.
We coordinate and communicate frequently with household, kids, school, etc. Many kids events we do and they always go well. Most of these are required or holiday.
Relationship wise...in limbo.
Working on myself after getting past all the initial shock and depression. The body and mind can only take so much. It has taken a toll on me, but coming around. Working out, activity, friends, family, work, all help.
Things will slow down and get better, but you have to back off. Just don't make any big mistakes that could hurt you legally later on while your brain is being fried during BD. If unsure, consult with a professional. If things come to that.
Any advice on V day present/card from the kids ? In limbo and things going ok. No OM to knowledge.
A valentine's day card from the kids, so a kids card. And a gift card for her and the kids to go eat somewhere.
Mind is spinning here from V-day just need some clarity please.
Things with the W have been going pretty well and I have been getting good with GAL about 6 months since BD. Communication has been good and we both reach out as needed. Really just starting to see my worth. Limbo, but a good calm limbo if that makes sense. Reaching some degree of detachment, but as you will see here this one caught me a little.
I have only reached out for a couple brunch meetups with W saying a I can't because of X, but in these cases it was probably true. I just decided to quit asking until I saw more signs. I have been hesitant. I have seen dates as out of the question up to this point.
Recently, the W asked if I wanted to go on a dinner date this month. I said yes.
I visited the home to give kids their V-day presents and W was agitated. I didn't go off the handle, but probably not the best DB, but hey its real life. I fed into it and she accused me of talking to someone and seemed to be irritated I hadn't asked her out. I wear my ring and my stance hasn't changed. I saw V-day as a big no-no for our first date and pursuit. If anything I was talking to guy friends and I told her that. Accused me of not telling her everything I do, etc., but we are separated. Apparantly, W has been seeing little things I have done and assuming I am talking to someone.
Anyways...crazy, but we are still going on dinner date this month I guess.
So in comes my mind #$&*&$# thinking I should have done something different, chase W, etc.
I guess sometimes drama is good, things were getting stagnant.
First date after BD...any advice ?
First date after BD...any advice ?
With W?
First date after BD...any advice ?
Personally, my advice would be to cancel. "Sorry something came up and I can't make it."
Remember, people want what they can't have. She will wonder why you prioritized something else. "Is he moving on? Am I ready for him to leave me behind?" Those kinds of thoughts can stir up of feelings of "Oh no he dint! HE AIN'T GETTING AWAY THAT EASILY!"
Read the distance-pursuit thread.
If you do end up going, my guess is that she is seeing this as two friends having dinner. Not sure about you, but I wasn't interested in friendship with my WAW.
Correct, the W.
That is pretty hard-core Steve.
My only concern with that strategy is some recent heavy accusations I was seeing someone else due to my GAL'ing.
That would blow the hinges off I have no doubt.
OK, well first suggestion is don't look at it as a date. Think of it more as two friends going out to grab a bite to eat. NO R TALKS!!!! If she initiates it then fine, let her talk but you just listen. Use this as an opportunity to hone your listening and validating skills. If she asks you questions then be brief and immediately turn it back to her. "How was your day?" "It was great, how did yours go?" When she talks, make eye contact. Show interest. Nod. Ask how it made her feel.
I'll warn you right now that validation feels fake to most guys. We are programmed to think communication is us telling someone else something. Don't fall into that trap. If you encourage her to talk, and she does so, and you listen and validate, then even if you hardly talk at all she will leave thinking "wow, he really understands me, who is this guy?" When I started validating friends and coworkers and women on first dates I hardly said anything at all, yet I was constantly complimented for "being a great communicator". Validating is very powerful.
Correct, the W.
That is pretty hard-core Steve.
My only concern with that strategy is some recent heavy accusations I was seeing someone else due to my GAL'ing.
That would blow the hinges off I have no doubt.
Meh. This is fear talking. This is the post of a beta. An alpha would be all "I ain't taking the crumbs you're dropping from your table!"
And her thinking you are moving on is a good thing. This is the goal of DBing!! When she asks you about your seeing someone you say definitively, but not excessively "No, I'm not seeing anyone. I'm focusing on myself and being happy on my own."
If she thinks that is a lie, so be it.
Drop fear. Do not settle. Become a man only a fool would let go. And that isn't being readily available everytime she's ready to throw you bone.
If cancelling is to hardcore, then postpone. "I need to take a raincheck on dinner, really busy right now. I'll contact you next week to schedule something."
My guess, you're so excited she's willing go to dinner you can't fathom not doing it. I'm telling you that you'll gain more of her respect by cancelling or postponing and then asking her to go on your terms.
By the way I do agree with Steve that you should just not go at all. My suggestions fall under the "if you DO go, then do this" category. Right now you can't "nice" her back. You also can't "mean" her back. You can't get her back at all, not until SHE has a change of heart. Which if it comes at all, will be WAY down the road. The best thing you can do to help things along right now is.... nothing. Time and space. Leave her alone. Keep contact to the bare essentials. Be a ghost. Not cold, rude and indifferent, just... not there.
By the way I do agree with Steve that you should just not go at all. My suggestions fall under "if you DO go, then do this" category. Right now you can't "nice" her back. You also can't "mean" her back. You can't get her back at all, not until SHE has a change of heart. Which if it comes at all, will be WAY down the road.
And will be impossible to miss.
Steve/AS,
As always appreciate the advice. Need some more now.
The dinner was the kind of thing not easily changeable. Steve, I was surprised and eager to go, and given the circumstances we went. IMO the dinner went well and had a first date vibe. Things got awkward afterwards, but overall felt good. I expected the ending and wall to kick back up, so was prepared.
Trying to figure out where I go from here. Half a year into this. Communication decent. Breadcrumbs. No OM to best of my knowledge and my gut feeling. Up and down from W as expected. Recently, W accused me of having another woman. W was acting as if I should be talking to her more and possibly asking her on dates was an impression I got.
I am more recently feeling confidence, figuring out how to command respect and that I will be OK either way. I still prefer to Recon with my W, but I also question this as everyone does. I know she still doesn't fully respect or trust me. I don't understand the trust issue other than the nature of being separated.
I guess my question is how to play this out. My impression is that W thinks we start dating again at some point. I really can't tell, but I am considering asking her to do something. Or just keep working on myself. I guess there is no set rule as long as I don't have expectations.
I always hear to put energy into myself instead of WAW, but I also feel someone has to make a move at some point. Or maybe not and wait for the obvious sign. Just not sure where asking the W to do things fits in if at all.
Steve/AS,
As always appreciate the advice. Need some more now.
The dinner was the kind of thing not easily changeable. Steve, I was surprised and eager to go, and given the circumstances we went. IMO the dinner went well and had a first date vibe. Things got awkward afterwards, but overall felt good. I expected the ending and wall to kick back up, so was prepared.
Trying to figure out where I go from here. Half a year into this. Communication decent. Breadcrumbs. No OM to best of my knowledge and my gut feeling. Up and down from W as expected. Recently, W accused me of having another woman. W was acting as if I should be talking to her more and possibly asking her on dates was an impression I got.
I am more recently feeling confidence, figuring out how to command respect and that I will be OK either way. I still prefer to Recon with my W, but I also question this as everyone does. I know she still doesn't fully respect or trust me. I don't understand the trust issue other than the nature of being separated.
I guess my question is how to play this out. My impression is that W thinks we start dating again at some point. I really can't tell, but I am considering asking her to do something. Or just keep working on myself. I guess there is no set rule as long as I don't have expectations.
I always hear to put energy into myself instead of WAW, but I also feel someone has to make a move at some point. Or maybe not and wait for the obvious sign. Just not sure where asking the W to do things fits in if at all.
First on this: "W accused me of having another woman. W was acting as if I should be talking to her more and possibly asking her on dates was an impression I got. " Typical WAW tactic. If you were trying to talk to her more and asking her out (remember, she asked you out this time, she had been saying no to your requests) she'd accuse you of smothering her. You cannot win with a WAW spouse. Darned if you do, darned if you don't. The fact is that she doesn't feel that way about you and she will find an excuse no matter what you do.
"I guess my question is how to play this out. My impression is that W thinks we start dating again at some point. I really can't tell, but I am considering asking her to do something. Or just keep working on myself. I guess there is no set rule as long as I don't have expectations.
I always hear to put energy into myself instead of WAW, but I also feel someone has to make a move at some point. Or maybe not and wait for the obvious sign. Just not sure where asking the W to do things fits in if at all."
I still see you struggling against DBing. Lots of hem-hawing and contradiction. Continue to GAL. Make GAL your priority! Next time she asks to go to dinner, the worst thing you can do is jump on it again. "Sorry, busy that night. Can we take a rain check? Next time we talk we can nail down a date." You are so excited about a breadcrumb that you are sucking it down before it hits the floor! Keep self-improving. You want to 180 on your past poor behavior so whenever you interact with her she sees those changes. (REMEMBER, never point out your improvements!!) and then make sure you are detached. Anything she says or does should roll off your back like water off of a duck.
Green ~
If you don't take the breadcrumb, I assure you, your WAW will use that as "evidence" you are not committed to the MR. You will need to build up the ability to deal emotionally with this tactic.
Part of detaching is realizing this is hogwash logic:
IF... "I turn down this date request"... THEN... "W will think I don't want to R"... What?!?! Think about how absurd that is.
Define your own logic. You simply cannot live as if someone is hyper-analyzing your every move. That is not a recipe for a healthy relationship.
Your situation may not end up in R. Some do, some don't. I'm sure you have the same fear everybody has when they come here... if my situation does not end up in R, what will I regret? Will I regret that I DB'ed? Especially if my WAW points to it as the "cause"?
It is really hard to struggle with that question. Personally I think it is one of the most important questions to wrestle with while DB'ing. How do you want to make decisions NOW such that, down the road, regardless of where your life has gone, regardless of what other people think (including those closest to you), you can look back and feel good about the decisions you made?
Hello DB...haven't posted since COVID. Primarily because when I start to write down my status I find it hard to explain. I guess this is the nature of limbo. I check in here daily as I find some therapy and bits of good advice. Also follow other stories.
Recently passed a year since BD. Not a day has passed I don't think about my sitch or W. We have done some work around the house that led to a little fun and intimacy, which was good. Still firmly in limbo with no real idea when that would end.
W mentionned once that she was frustrated we hadn't been able to date as if due to COVID. I thought that was a little strange. A few weeks later I asked her to dinner and she was then hesitant. Something legitimate came up that day and she asked if we could do that another time. I haven't asked again, but I always think about it.
Line up the 2x4, but kinda where I am at. I am really not sure what I want to do anymore. Everything we have is still shared and kids. I have hope, but I also feel the reality of the situation more these days.
Not sure if I could ever file to be honest. W is not being hateful and I know she really doesn't want to break up the family. However, I cannot go on like this forever either.
greenman, what if you set a date? You just hit 1 year since BD. So what if you set a date of one more BD anniversary. If things aren't improved, if she isn't fully committed back to the marriage in one year then you will go file? That would give you something to work towards. You could DB your butt off between then and now and see how it goes.
As far as:
"W mentionned once that she was frustrated we hadn't been able to date as if due to COVID. I thought that was a little strange. A few weeks later I asked her to dinner and she was then hesitant. Something legitimate came up that day and she asked if we could do that another time. I haven't asked again, but I always think about it."
Did she say it as in you and her going on a date? Or was this said in a way that she could have meant "I am frustrated that I haven't been able to get out and date other people due to COVID?" We often, as LBSs, hear what we want to hear. But I find it hard to believe that she said that meaning you and her, and then hedged and eventually bailed on an actual date with you.
As far as a 2x4, I don't really have one. I would remind you that when you don't know what to do that doing nothing IS doing something. Your sitch hasn't progressed. But it sounds like it hasn't regressed any either. We all hate limbo, it is terrible and difficult. But ask people whose spouses rushed into leaving and/or filing for D and they'd tell you that they'd give anything to be back in limbo, IHS. It is a "grass is greener" thing. So just keep focusing on you, being the best you can be. Make sure you are GAL, 180ing and continuing to work on detachment. GIve yourself and end date. And then work towards that between now and then.
Did she say it as in you and her going on a date?
Hey Steve. Yes...believe it or not it was me. I had an internal double-take and just said...A date with me ? She said..No, with my other boyfriend sarcastically. She knows dating is a deal-breaker for us right now. So in some sense we both haven't given up whatever that means. We've had a few meaningful R talks.
I can read her pretty well and I feel like she hasn't given up hope.
I will probably ask again as the timing was pretty bad, but my attitude hasn't been the best lately and I don't want it to have a negative effect if I'm not committed to it.
We definitely haven't regressed and have had some positive interactions. The whole process is overwhelming honestly no matter which way things go.
Always good to see your perspective on things.
Ok greenman, You wouldn't have been the first LBS to not hear something like that properly. And even if she recovered by clarifying you, doesn't mean that she didn't mean it that way. Remember, believe nothing she says.
Crossed 1.5 years since BD. I read on hear almost daily. This one here caught my eye from ScottB's thread.
"So how does a man change how his woman feels?
Answer- Give her what she wants. Agree with her.
Stop smothering her, give her space and time, her feelings are her feelings - let her know you understand it's OK she feels that way. She wants the "feeling" back - she wants to be attracted to you."
W had to make a decision on her apartment lease, which lead to some R conversations. She said she feels like things have only recently improved with us, which I basically agree with. Its been very gradual getting over alot of the tension, anger, etc. Although, I still battle it internally often, I don't show it.
Also, she says that she is at a point where maybe this is as good as it gets. She doesn't know. She says maybe a weekend getaway, maybe a trip, maybe a date is what we need. But maybe she isn't ready for that either.
Meanwhile, I'm thinking how can we work on the marriage. Back to the quote from Scotty it seems like she has to get to a point where she is attracted and has the feeling back. I'm thinking more logical, which of course doesn't work.
I took her to breakfast this week and managed to do well and not bring up all the R things going on in my head. Most all of our convo's are about her and what she is doing.
I am just always trying to size up how bad I want this and how long can I go. And how she will ever get her feelings back to want to give the M a chance.
Man this is a long road just to get to a point of potential Recon.
Current target is to see how things are at the 2 year mark.
I am just always trying to size up how bad I want this and how long can I go. And how she will ever get her feelings back to want to give the M a chance.
She will get them back when she decides she wants them back. Until then you will sit in limbo.
If I could tell you precisely that she will get her feelings back in 7 years, 2 months, and 3 days from now, would you be willing to wait?
The point is that she may get them back at some point, but do you really want to continue wasting your life waiting for it? In my sitch, at the counsel of a wise anti-D expert, I set a 1 year past BD limit. At 1 year if she wasn't fully committed back to the MR, then I would go file for D. 1 year may not be right for you (since it has already been 1.5 years!). Maybe 2 years is. Maybe 5 years. Maybe 9 years (based on my hypothetical above). But you have decide when enough waiting is enough. And then you have to move forward with your life and quit waiting for someone else to decide your life for you.
I hear both of you LH and Steve...unfortunately.
If I could tell you precisely that she will get her feelings back in 7 years, 2 months, and 3 days from now, would you be willing to wait?.
No. I simply cannot go that long for legal reasons. And personal I can't live like this that long. I am up against a significant timeline in 3 years and would have to file before that. I am looking at one more year currently and sizing that up in 6 months. (I say that now anyways). Problem is any R will ultimately run over that line, so I am in a tough spot. Its not about the money, but for me it is since I make the most by far and will be tied up long term if this drags on.
With my family at stake and the fact that I trust her, 1 year just isn't enough for me. Any sign of infidelity or major disrespect, my decision is made. But she keeps me on the fence.
Part of my concern is that she is unhappy and indecisive with her career also. She will quit a job and find another. Then, be unhappy with that.
I worry that is the case for our relationship.
She will get them back when she decides she wants them back. Until then you will sit in limbo.
I think the reality is. Well before BD...I was already in limbo and didn't realize it. Puts some perspective on how long it really has been.
Remember, D will not prevent a future R. In fact, you taking decisive action, following through with D, and moving forward with your life more than likely will make her start seeing you differently...and could mean a faster return of her feelings. Now, that is NOT why you pull the trigger and move forward with D. But my point is that sometimes it requires losing you to make her want you.
She will get them back when she decides she wants them back. Until then you will sit in limbo.
I think the reality is. Well before BD...I was already in limbo and didn't realize it. Puts some perspective on how long it really has been.
Exactly! It's not likely to change the way you living now. It's more likely she is looking for an OM to make her escape.
Remember, D will not prevent a future R. In fact, you taking decisive action, following through with D, and moving forward with your life more than likely will make her start seeing you differently...and could mean a faster return of her feelings. Now, that is NOT why you pull the trigger and move forward with D. But my point is that sometimes it requires losing you to make her want you.
All of this. Don't let fear dictate any decisions. Protect yourself. Be strong. It's attractive. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but it's true!!
Do what you need to do for YOU. She isn't on your team. You are on your team. Going forward, every decision regarding D should be what is in your best interest - no matter how it affects her.
You got this! You are already realizing that she sways whichever way the wind blows, so don't let her steer your ship.
As you know I've been at this for 20 months now since BD. For me personally, no matter how hard I try, my mind won't let go of figuring out the end game. I know the mind likes stability. Drives me nuts. It comes and goes, but always there.
I was frustrated a few weeks ago and initiated a convo. Aired some things out on both sides. Keep in mind I haven't done that for 20 months. W says that she was thinking about suggesting marriage counseling as a last ditch effort, but of course only threw that out after things got a little heated. She probably was, but I doubt she was planning on telling me that anytime soon.
DB wise the convo probably didn't help anything, but the man and mind can only take so much. Now back to DBing and figuring out a plan for the 2 year mark in 4 months.
greenman, I know you've heard this before but want to reiterate. The WAS will usually agree, and sometimes even suggest, MC. Why? Are they really ready to commit to the marriage? No, usually it is so they can check it off the list.
"Yep, we tried everything, even MC!"
You do not use MC for the WAS to recommit to the MR. After the WAS recommits to the MR, MC can be a useful tool to work through the previous existing issues.
I would avoid MC at this point like the plague until you are sure she is recommitted back the MR.
I know the next question, when will you know? You WILL know. It will be unambiguous. It can't miss it. There will be no doubt about it.
I was frustrated a few weeks ago and initiated a convo. Aired some things out on both sides. Keep in mind I haven't done that for 20 months.. things got a little heated.
Hi Greenman, that's one of the reasons to keep posting--you can air grievances here or in your journal without setting back your situation. "Heated conversations" rarely shorten your limbo in a positive way.
W says that she was thinking about suggesting marriage counseling as a last ditch effort
I agree with Steve, MC only makes sense if she's committed to the marriage, and her phrasing around it--"last-ditch" and "only after things got a little heated"--strongly implies you're nowhere close. My own experiences with MC when either my partner or I were not committed was that it didn't help and maybe hurt.
May went through "Discernment Therapy" with the purpose of helping her partner decide if he was committed. I have no personal experience, but one thing I liked from her descriptions is the therapist kept reminding him of boundaries ("It only makes sense to talk about your anger over that once you've committed to staying. Are you committing to staying?") It also did not let him check off that "I gave it my all.. with MC" box. If you must do some sort of therapy, it's an alternative to check into. You might ask May more about it.
Good points on MC. The problem I have is I don't think she is anywhere near committing to R. They way things are works well for her. Cake eating or whatever you want to call it. Married benefits without being married. I am getting to a point where I don't know if I want to R. I know others that stayed separated for years, dated others, never got a D and many years later R, but that just isn't an option for me financially. Maybe I'm just in a down cycle, but right now I see no end to limbo. Going to get to the 2 year mark and evaluate.
Saw my name and thought I'd contribute--
First, totally agree with CW and Steve that there is zero point to MC unless both parties have the same goal in mind. Waste of time if she wants to box-check on her way to feeling good about a D or breadcrumbing you while continuing to cake-eat plus it has the added side benefits (depending on your therapist) of sidetracking DBing if you spill your guts in session.
Discernment therapy could help if you are at a $hit or get off the pot stage. If you aren't ready to end limbo, no matter which direction, I wouldn't recommend it. But if you are ready and want to move the needle-- and do it thoughtfully and collaboratively-- discernment therapy could be a good fit. Basically it is a short term (I think usually no longer than six weeks) set of conversations with a therapist aimed at deciding whether to stay in the M, end it, or stay in limbo. I think sometimes these are held with a mix of joint and individual sessions, though in my case they were all joint. The therapist started and ended each session with the set goal of exploring where each of us were on those three choices. For me, pretty quickly the status quo was out-- it was the one thing I wasn't okay with, then I ranked working on the M and ending the M, in that order, as my two options. For my H, he really would have preferred to stay in the status quo (AKA cake eating) and the therapist kept reminding him that option was off the table because we both had to agree to it. Also, as CW says, my H kept on veering into complaints about our R and the MC kept reminding him-- this is really more appropriate for MC instead of DC, so park it until/unless we are ready to work on the M. I think having a trained third party keep the conversation on track was helpful for us. I believe that traditionally if you decide to work on the M, you agree to MC for a set amount of time and then to reevaluate after that point.
Now, my H still relapsed twice after deciding in DC to end his A, and I don't honestly know if DC was really all that helpful for him, but COVID also got in the way of continuing MC and I guess there is a chance that he would not have relapsed if we were still in MC. Who knows. But I still appreciated the DC process because it helped me to clarify my own boundaries and begin to enforce them. In your situation with no OM and the two year mark coming up, it could be a mediated way to decide how to move forward.
may I know you've mentioned DC before. The only other IF I will add, but the LBS shouldn't do it IF they can not do it with no expectations of R. If you are doing it with the understanding that you are likely to end up D'd then I think it can help the LBS to move forward out of limbo, especially long limbos like we sometimes see here. I have no statistics on it but I'd have to believe that most WASs use discernment counseling to get their LBS to accept the D.
I also like how you described it: " I think sometimes these are held with a mix of joint and individual sessions, though in my case they were all joint."
In my case I did MC with my WAS, but after the first couple of sessions it really turned into IC for me with her present. It can be difficult to set up that kind of arrangement, and I can't say how it might work in other's sitches, but in my sitch doing IC with her present was really beneificial, and I think, along with me getting better DBing as I went, is a big reason we eventually R'd.
greenman I've been cautioned by other posters not to have a "it worked for me, it will work for you too!" mentality. So I am not trying to say what worked for me WILL work for you, but just wanted to give you my experience as well.
I'm just going to throw this on the pile so you can explore things at your own pace and you can get a full view of your options here. I really wouldn't recommend MC or even Steve's suggestion of IC with W present. (No offense Steve but I really think your W is the exception here not the rule. She deep down must have had a lot of love for you or respect or both because thinking of my H doing that at the time we did DC I can't even imagine how horribly that would've gone.)
Honestly given what happened with me and a few other couples I know of intimately I would have to say attempting MC or IC w/W present are absolutely the worst things you could do. if they're out the door they have no interest in giving 2 $hits about how you feel or what you think. It will go very very badly, very very quickly. DC removes all of that.
Like May said it's short term. 5-6 sessions tops. They are long sessions like 80-90 min and they will be booked week after week for that time period. They don't like doing gaps. You will each get a short time period with just the counselor, then both of you going in together. The individual time is really more so that the counselor can get a handle on where your head is at. It also gives them a better idea of what the underlying dynamics are vs what they are seeing in a more tense setting. They will discuss the 3 options as May presented D, work, status quo. The likelihood of this ending with an R is slim to none, however, it will move you out of limbo, and it'll give you some closure that you've probably been looking for.
If and that's a big IF, if you guys do decided to both work on the MR you will be in intensive MC for 3-6 months. Our agreement with DC it would've been 5 and then a reassessment. None of this is cheap, just a warning.
Last my experience with this was pretty ugly. No one's DC experience is pretty but it was extraordinarily ugly. We, H and I, made it through 1 session. Just 1. She asked one question regarding his FOO and he absolutely lost it. Just totally off the deep end. And then we fought for 3 hours after. During this session and after here's a list of things he said: he never really loved me, the only reason our relationship progressed was because I coerced him into it, I dictated our entire relationship with ultimatums, everything he ever did in our relationship was to fulfill the expectations of other people, we were just so different there was never a chance with us, he thought those difference were what made me special but he was wrong those difference were the reasons why he was miserable, there was no point in doing any more sessions he wanted a D, there was absolutely nothing left in the marriage for him, his daughter was not my kid, my kid was not his, I better not try to get money from him we weren't married long enough for that, I could go on forever. However, my favorite of all the crap he said in the fight after the session was because I knew exactly what he was going to say he accused me of eavesdropping on his session with the therapist. When I said "Unlike you have ethical standards, you're just so pathetically predictable I didn't need to listen in to know what's going through your head," he didn't take that well. BUT because of that session I read DR and I came here. AND it was really great for me to hear all of the insanity that was going through his head. He looked me in the eye and completely rewrote our history and believed every word of it. He spoke about his child like she was luggage he could just haul with him. A child I had been parenting for years longer than we had been married. He looked at me with nothing but disgust and contempt, and for the life of me I couldn't understand where the contempt had come from since I was the one carrying the household, the parenting and the MR while deeply depressed. It was then that I realized what I was really up against. It wasn't just OW, it was my H's own warped version of reality.
That changed a lot for me. It really helped me come to a place (that this place helped me fully flesh out) where I knew that if I really wanted to get to the other side of this I had to worry about me and my kids and absolutely nothing else. He was lost and he was on his own to find his way. I couldn't save him or fix him or fix our MR. I could only save me. The rest would fall into place as it should.
I'm just going to throw this on the pile so you can explore things at your own pace and you can get a full view of your options here. I really wouldn't recommend MC or even Steve's suggestion of IC with W present. (No offense Steve but I really think your W is the exception here not the rule. She deep down must have had a lot of love for you or respect or both because thinking of my H doing that at the time we did DC I can't even imagine how horribly that would've gone.)
Completely fair. Just reacting to may's post about MC and IC.
Wow, wayfarer! I've had bad counseling sessions--with one of my ex's because I was being a donkey's bum, with my most recent ex because she was being a donkey's bum, but yours sounds truly wretched. ((Hugs)) By now I bet you're mostly over it, but intense moments can leave echoes that stick with us. Thanks to you and May for sharing your raw perspectives on DC and when it may be helpful or not helpful.
I'm just going to throw this on the pile so you can explore things at your own pace and you can get a full view of your options here. I really wouldn't recommend MC or even Steve's suggestion of IC with W present. (No offense Steve but I really think your W is the exception here not the rule. She deep down must have had a lot of love for you or respect or both because thinking of my H doing that at the time we did DC I can't even imagine how horribly that would've gone.)
Completely fair. Just reacting to may's post about MC and IC.
Just one follow-up. There is no doubt that when BD happened my W was done with the MR. It was crystal clear in her words and deeds. She agreed to MC just like most WAS, to check it off the list.
Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of that.
Thanks May and others. I think I'm just starting to truly detach and even consider that maybe I do not want to R. Taken over 1.5 years to get to that point and sharing the nest made it harder to detach. Deep down I still want to figure things out if possible, so giving W some more time and myself. I know that W will have no interest in something unless its her idea...besides any seeds I can possibly plant along the way. For now trying to enjoy my time and accept what I cannot change.
Hey folks. I am close to finalizing a pretty peaceful divorce and co-parent scenario. I gave it well over 2 years. Tried some counseling at the end, but that gained nothing because W wasn't into fixing the marriage. I always had hope and thought recon was best. I let my anger get me at times by reacting to W, fixating on her every move too much, but overall I did my best. I made many efforts to engage W and she never once truly budged on her position, which finally got me to my AH HAH moment where W said she was done and that is all I needed to hear. I knew I had given what I could and I knew there was no changing W. Finances and housing came to a point where decisions had to be made.
Of course you wish you could just walk away as soon as you get the BD, but by no means are things that simple. At least not for me. Especially with a family.
I wish I could have found an easier path to detachment, less mental anguish, etc. but its simply a path you have to go through and lots of cycles. Getting off social media helped me greatly and I wish I didn't wait so long to do it.
Like I was told, D isn't the end and I know it has to happen. I still fluctuate with sadness and anger at times, but am overall much happier and excited about the future.
I didn't post much, but checked in here daily and am thankful for the help this site and everyone on it provided. I never thought I would make it to this point, but I finally let go and in many ways things are already better.
Hey folks. I am close to finalizing a pretty peaceful divorce and co-parent scenario.
Glad to hear its peaceful.
I gave it well over 2 years.
That is a fair amount of time.
Tried some counseling at the end, but that gained nothing because W wasn't into fixing the marriage.
Nope. Once they get it in their head they are better off D'd that's it. No turning back.
I always had hope and thought recon was best. I let my anger get me at times by reacting to W, fixating on her every move too much, but overall I did my best. I made many efforts to engage W and she never once truly budged on her position, which finally got me to my AH HAH moment where W said she was done and that is all I needed to hear.
Nope. Once they get it in their head they are better off D'd that's it. No turning back.
I knew I had given what I could and I knew there was no changing W. Finances and housing came to a point where decisions had to be made.
Nope. Once they get it in their head they are better off D'd that's it. No turning back.
Of course you wish you could just walk away as soon as you get the BD, but by no means are things that simple. At least not for me. Especially with a family.
I wish I would have.
I wish I could have found an easier path to detachment, less mental anguish, etc. but its simply a path you have to go through and lots of cycles.
Detachment is the hardest part of DBing.
Getting off social media helped me greatly and I wish I didn't wait so long to do it.
Exactly!
Like I was told, D isn't the end and I know it has to happen.
Yep. She has to learn the hard way.
I still fluctuate with sadness and anger at times, but am overall much happier and excited about the future.
Totally normal and this will happen for awhile.
Chin up tits out Greenman!
Great post greenman. I wish more LBSs could read this post and learn from your experience. Good luck in the future, you're set up for a great life.
Posting again because I feel some comfort here and reading Pack's recent post I know I'm not the only one struggling at times.
So...I'm fully D after 3 years of separation. Neither of us ever dated anyone during that time (of course that I know of). I guess W decided to go online dating after D and found her new awesome BF. Going too fast IMO, but not my thing. He's younger and I'm not overly impressed, but it is what it is.
For some reason that hit REALLY hard and I'm spinning backwards after all I've been through. I know it will pass, but reminds me how attached to her I still was the whole time. I had adjusted to the way things were and we still somewhat acted as a family.
I have to figure out how to push my anger and hurt aside to continue that good co parent relationship.
No matter how long it has been and how much I knew it, I struggle with another man in the picture around her and my kids.
Ridiculous, it seems, I know, but this is what I'm going through.
I always wonder if dating would help or hurt me. I really want to dedicate my time to the kids, which I do, but I also get lonely. Been 3 years.
If I follow what I've learned here, I'm not ready for dating.
Not ridiculous at all greenman. Detachment is an on-going process. A legal document saying you are D'd from a court doesn't mean "Ok, I am fully emotionally detached and will never have emotions again over what she says or does." That comes with time and understanding on your part.
greenman, only you know if you are ready for dating. You are D'd. Maybe still have some attachment issues to work through related to your EX, but you are ready when you decide you are ready.
Are you in IC? A good IC could help you deal with all of this.
And there will always be a little bit of a dynamic at play with your EX and who she dates or even marries. It is kind of like a father with a daughter, the guys she brings home will never be GOOD enough. Don't beat yourself up over natural feelings like that. Again, a good IC can help.
greenman,
Just went back and read through your thread. I hadn't posted before but do remember some of the dialogue. I can definitely related to your feelings.
Neither of us ever dated anyone during that time (of course that I know of). I guess W decided to go online dating after D and found her new awesome BF.
Not trying to make light of your situation, but if it's true ExW didn't see anyone until post-D (let alone during separation or pre-BD), you're relatively lucky compared to most folks around here.
For some reason that hit REALLY hard and I'm spinning backwards after all I've been through. I know it will pass, but reminds me how attached to her I still was the whole time. I had adjusted to the way things were and we still somewhat acted as a family.
I think we'll always have a bit of that "she used to be my W and now she's someone elses" mindset, but it'll likely dissipate as time goes on to not impact us nearly as much down the road. Btw...don't think it's a one-way road. She'll likely have those twags when she knows you're seeing another woman, even if she doesn't tell you. Maybe thinking of it that way will help you?
I have to figure out how to push my anger and hurt aside to continue that good co parent relationship.
Indeed. Always need to act in the best interest of our kids.
No matter how long it has been and how much I knew it, I struggle with another man in the picture around her and my kids.
I completely relate to this. I have an extra problem in my case that it's the man she dated while married to me, but either way...tough to powerless against another man interacting and raising our children. Especially when statistics say the biggest thread to kids is a non-blood relative living in the house. Unfortunately out of our control.
Ridiculous, it seems, I know, but this is what I'm going through.
Not ridiculous at all. Completely normal and totally understandable.
I really want to dedicate my time to the kids, which I do, but I also get lonely. Been 3 years.
I hear ya. I've crushed it as a father and done everything I can for my kiddos - and loved every minute of it (almost anyway) - but would be nice to share activities and life moments with a partner.
Thanks Steve and BL.
I'm doing better today and always good to hear your thoughts.
I know I should do some more IC, but I'm not right now.
Yes, I was pretty lucky about the non-dating during separation. I know EX probably wanted to, but she knew I didn't support that. She has integrity, I will give her that. As far as our separation and current relationship things have been relatively tame. Besides the mental toll.
Anyways...I will be ok I am going to give the dating side of things some more time before I jump in. Don't want to be that guy still not healed from his previous relationship.
In some ways I wish I had attempted to move on quicker than the 2.5 years of separation, but that just wasn't happening. EX was way ahead of me there of course.
Thanks again.
greenman,
Saw you comment on Pack's thread...how about an update of your own?
If my math is right you're 3 1/2 years post-BD and coming up on a year divorced. How are you doing? How are the kids? How is co-parenting? Are you dating at all?