Part 1 of my story is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2842310#Post2842310Continuing here..
"Murphy, its you !"
I think in terms of movies alot.
This phrase is in my mind when I think about us LBS.
We see this alien who has abducted our spouse, irrational, confused, having thrown everything away.
This stone faced other creature, going mechanically thru the motions.
I am only talking about the spouses that were genuinely nice people to their wives/husbands but due to some deep childhood trauma or psychological disorder, couldn't cope and bailed on us.
Saw the wife the other day, and deep behind her eyes I saw a glimmer of that love. Kind of like she remembered some good stuff - the real story, not the script she has rewritten which is falling apart lately. The made up script is so unbelievable, she doesn't even believe it now.
I felt like tapping her on the shoulder and telling her something to the effect "Murphy, its you !"
For those that have seen the film Robocop, I think it will resonate.
Somewhere behind that armor of their indifference and hatred we see a glimpse of their former self.
Well, picked up my 4 year old today. Wife said he asked for me, so even though its not one of the 4 days I get him per month (here in medieval southern Greece) I was glad to have him. I usually get him on freebies like this whenever she deems fit. I take the crumbles as I spend quality time with the little one.
Today he asked me when are we going to go for vacation as a family.
I dont know what to respond to this. Any input welcome.
I dont know if the W is putting words into his mouth or if he genuinely wants to see us as a unit on vacation.
He has understood that we live in separate homes (but every so aften he asks me "Why did we move out of the house dad? - THis kills me every time, as I dont know what to tell him there too)
She has dug a hole in me and I am finally getting on my feet. But what about this vacation thing now??
puzzled
Loving the title of the thread..
And loving the comparison... But i'm biased, as Robocop is one of my favourite 80s films...
My WW asked me to spend more time as a family a few weeks ago ( mentioned in my sitch ) - my personal take on it is a no no, as they will probably just cake eat.. I also feel it could give the wrong idea to your child..
Hey thanks for the compliment on the thread title.
Yeah Robocop is up there on my favorites too.
I have the book by Taschen on Paul Verheoven on my bookshelf. Great artwork on behind the scenes for that film.
Love the Christ metaphors in it (at one point he walks on water - at the gas station he is seen walking on spilled gas, but it is a clear metaphor) - I also teach semiotics in film, so I am biased
He is killed and resurrected. Only this is a Jesus of our times, carrying a weapon, so to say.
Fellow Greek Basil Polidouris wrote a great score (I love the strings when he enters his home that is up for sale, and he has flashbacks of his old family - that sounds so familiar to many of us LBS these days)
He cant cry, so the strings in the score cry for us. They tear at our soul at that moment.
Also on an interesting side note, my brother is a waiter in LA and brought Verhoeven his take out order to him a few years back. I was so jealous when he told me, as I would have loved to have met him in person.
Will read your sitch helpme12 to catch up.
I feel the same way about the wife/son vacation.
Tough love bur you are right, save him bigger heart ache down the road.
Had to go into the old town yesterday for work. Mentioning it to my my wife she asked if I could give her a ride and she would take the kid to the swings. She has no transportation so I did so.
When it was late and I picked them up to return to their home, my 4 year old asked if we could all eat out together like the old days. Oh crap, I thought. To make him happy we all went out. And it was fun.
2 divorced parents being professional partners in raising our kid.
And then I noticed she had some sauce from the sandwich smeared on her face. I told her where it was and it took a while for her to get it. And bang, my stupid human heart kicked in, and we were back to when we first met, and I remembered something similar. I put on my sunglasses as I knew tears were coming.
I knew the robot my ex would feel nothing. I went to the bathroom to recompose.
Anyway the next day of course she rewards me by going out on some date with a guy, while it was my night with the kid. Lesson relearned, Dont get fooled again.
To other LBS spouses, dont lose your heard earned detachment like me.
Right when you think you are detached, our hearts are like teenage girls waiting to be consumed again.
gzabetas, don't be too hard on yourself about having a bit of emotion to a memory. That doesn't mean you aren't detached - just that you have real feelings. You excused yourself and hid the blip of sadness which sounds like the right thing to do.
"Professional partners" is a great term. I hope you can continue to aim for that in your parentingand not be too hard on yourself when you find a few bumps along the path.
thanks yail. peace to us both my friend.
Short update.
Saw the wife yesterday as I went to pick up the kid in a cafe.
She was there with her date, boyfriend, not sure. I handled it like it meant nothing and even made small talk with him.
Picked up the kid and went for a walk.
We are now 2 months post divorce and I was just wondering how peculiar all this is.
Why didn't it bother me that I saw her with him? No image of us together popped in my mind.
This is detachment at work.
But its not really bliss or happiness. Its as if your body kicked in for your emotional well being and got your whole body numb to the situation.
The Radiohead lyrics came to mind "I'm not here, this isn't really happening".
For the first time in my life I felt like The Stranger in Albert Camus' book.
Detachment gone into numbness.
Of course the forum members here helped nail that concept into my head.
It was nice to hear that it was a good thing to accomplish and headed in the right direction when detaching.
In all honesty if I hadn't detached I dont think I would have handled all the other craziness she drops my way.
She still sees me as the source of all her unhappiness and mishaps in life.
And the second question that pops in my mind is:
Who was this person that I shared 10 years of my life with?
Who were they really?
Her thoughts were probably building a case against me from day one.
"I'll show him, the minute I get a leg up, down he will go"
I can see that clearly now.
gzabetas - That Radiohead song popped in my head literally today, those specific lyrics even.
Numbness implies you are incapable of feeling. I think you are indifferent, which is a true sign of detachment. You are capable of having emotions and feelings, just not about her.
I'm sure you'll have your ups and downs, but glad to hear such a positive update!
There was a great poster on here Accuray (btw his posts are pure gold and everyone should read them all) who used to say that you will get to a point where if you looked out your window and saw your ex having sex on your front lawn you would just shrug your shoulders and say "that's weird".
There was a great poster on here Accuray (btw his posts are pure gold and everyone should read them all) who used to say that you will get to a point where if you looked out your window and saw your ex having sex on your front lawn you would just shrug your shoulders and say "that's weird".
Yes, you do actually get to that point as hard as it may be for most here to believe right now. Or even... "yuck"
unchien, i find music helps.
Even the angry songs too. Today I am playing Sabotage by Beastie boys. (This is what betrayal sounds like)
"I cant stand it I know you planned it, Imma set it straight this Watergate...
Scheming on a thing, that's a mirage
I'm trying to tell you now, it's sabotage"
On the pure feeling of betrayal that has been going on for a long time before we woke up to the betrayal.
But the pure raw force that we will prevail and set it straight, this watergate.
LH19 will check out Accray posts,
I like AnotherStander (i think it was you) analogy of the football team gangbanging her in the field.
That one always pops up in my head as a measure of if I am there yet.
gzabetas - My song of the day (a little bit more obscure) - Come Down by Wavves+Cloud Nothings.
"You say it's nothing, you feel alright...there's something wrong creeping into your life"
unchien , thanks for the great tune suggestion.
Always on the lookout for new great music as I am also a musician myself.
This reminded me of this that is also on my playlist this month. - The Sound - Golden Soldiers.
I love the dissonant sound and chords in both songs.
I'm going to totally sing this one in my new band.
She can kill with a smile, she can wound with her eyes
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
And she only reveals what she wants you to see
She hides like a child but she's always a woman to me
She can lead you to love, she can take you or leave you
She can ask for the truth but she'll never believe you
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free
Yeah she steals like a thief but she's always a woman to me
Oh, she takes care of herself, she can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, she never gives out and she never gives in
She just changes her mind
And she'll promise you more than the garden of Eden
Then she'll carelessly cut you and laugh while you're bleeding
But she brings out the best and the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself 'cause she's always a woman to me
Oh, she takes care of herself, she can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, she never gives out and she never gives in
She just changes her mind
She is frequently kind and she's suddenly cruel
She can do as she pleases, she's nobody's fool
But she can't be convicted, she's earned her degree
And the most she will do is throw shadows at you
But she's always a woman to me
Hey IHCLACS thanks for joining us with a song. Wow a fellow musician.
I own the song you mentioned on vinyl on the greatest hits billy joel album.
My personal favorite on there was Allentown.
I never listened to the lyrics growing up as I picked up the melodies more.
But now I can go back and truly listen to the story.
How cool is it that we always had an instrument to console us.
The guitar was always there for me to cure my pain,
My current song list on the guitar is very influenced by what we are going thru.
A&0ole by Beck
Gods gonna cut you down by Johnny Cash
The Becoming by NIN
Skin Deep by the Stranglers
Rowboat by Beck
Jackass by Beck
She lost respect for you.
Something we all hear about on this forum and elsewhere.
Somewhere along the way we men got hit with unemployment or financial hardship of God forbid, health issues.
And the wife lost respect.
Countless posts about how the woman loses respect in her man.
I am sure that applied to my case.
I was unemployed, sensitive, emotional. In a few words, human. I was human.
What is this right, or curse that women have to abandon a non alpha male man.
Alot of this biology btw goes back thousands of years when those indicators meant something.
Like protecting you from a bear or whatnot.
Nowadays courage and strength should be measured in how well your man is keeping it together under all kinds of new stresses of the 21st century. He gets hit with humiliation in work or money matters. Health issues. Multitasking to keep the home alive, and mentions nothing of this to his family. Going to his shed to lick his wounds.
And he gets hung for this ??
PS, We all have moms and sisters.
I never saw my mom treat my dad the way my WAW did me. when my dad lost his business, or when he went bust, or when he was in the hospital many times. Or when he was out countless nights drinking with his buddies.
His "sins" far outweighed mine. But yet. there was my mom, keeping it all together.
My sister similar stories. Always there by her husband.
I wish there were telltales signs of WAW's in the making.
Signs that you just bought a lemon.. One that wont last hardship. No endurance.
They are not all like that. I see proof of that daily.
Gzabetas,
I think there are tell tale signs in a lot of these sitchs...
But we chose to ignore them or avoid them to not rock the boat.
It may just be little things , maybe from day 1, maybe further down the line.. Things that you brushed aside as insignificant / not worth falling out over.. Little white lies, the odd flirty message that deleted or maybe comments that give you a glimpse of the way the WAW was starting to sway (maybe about your looks, not hitting the gym enough, the clothes you are wearing etc )
Its difficult for the LBS to pin point exactly in many cases, as the WAW will never ever give you a straight answer anyway, and we are taught to believe nothing what they say. I think its down to the LBS to learn from this mess... Learn, do the appropriate 180s, and be more selective next time.. keep their eyes open and dont ignore them red flags that maybe they chose to ignore first time round.
Got one for you today Gz
Seasons (waiting on you) - future islands
wow, great synchronicity.
Just had my ex be nice tonight and send me some dinner over when she picked up the kid (no worries I am not getting confused on where I stand). so i was hovering over the board to see if someones post inspired me, and caught my thread on the top.
Great song sugggestion Unchien Thanks!!
Funny how you can know a song for years, but when you listen to it at that one perfect time it strikes you like a lightning bolt.
yup, totally true.
Listening to Stranglers "Skin Deep" and when he says stuff like "better watch out for the skin deep" or "Cause brother, you've only got 2 hands to lend" it seems like I am only now getting it.
Cant recall if I mentioned it in my previous texts with you, but man Trent Reznor has some great lyrics.
Seems all of his songs are about being rejected. Some sparse lyrics.
=======
"I just made you up to hurt myself"
"Sometimes
It's just that nothing seems worth saving
I can't watch her slip away
I won't let you fall apart"
"None of this really matters
Any more
Yes I am alone
But then again I always was
As far back as I can tell
I think maybe it's because
Because you were never really real
To begin with"
"That me that you know used to have feelings
But the blood has stopped pumping and he's left to decay
The me that you know is now made up of wires
And even when I'm right with you I'm so far away"
"Nice and high and far apart
Just like they said
I built this place with broken parts
Just like they said
You chip away the old version of you
You'd be surprised at what you can do
I'm safe in here
Irrelevant
Just like they said
My voice just echoes off these walls
You feel me breathe
I am watching you
I see it all
The many ways you can't get to me
I see it all"
======
OK, I may have gone down a dark place, but these songs give me hope.
They help me rebuild my "circuitry" as NIN would put it.
Little update on my sitch. Or new troubles.
On the one hand I have wonderfull news in that I got offered a position as an engineer with a great company back in the USA. But I keep thinking of my toddler that I will leave behind with the divorced wife.
We are divorced half a year now. I dont feel bad when I am not with her. I have made my peace, sort of. I cry less.
But most of our interactions are her attempting to bait me into a fight.
It is unrelentless and full force. I really dont know how much more a man can take.
Many of my friends and family have said that I have been too patient thru all of this.
Well, its not like we have a choice when you have a kid. I dont want to leave my little man behind so to say.
So I deal with her crap to be with the kid.
Once I move for work next week, I will be gone for a long time and will not see the little one and will be dependent on her good will to skype so i can see the kid. I was at her new place earlier. Pure madness. A new dog, pooping all over. The kid being happy and jumping.
My only reason for being there was to return the kid to her and to deliver her groceries (extra good will effort on my part).
I also want to invest some time on child proofing the place,
I added window bars the other day since they are on the 3rd floor and the window swings open and a toddler can easily fall out.
Tonight I was looking at her electrical panel to make sure there was a power relay to allow for leaks or short circuits. Its a life saver and mandatory but these old houses dont usually have them.
While I am trying to put in good work for them, her insults came hard.
"Why are you in my house? Dont you think its time you left" she said.
I picked up my stuff and left.
2 minutes ago she was telling me about her day and to work on the computer later.
2 days ago she was trying to convince me that I am probably gay.. which I am not.
The attacks are laughable.
Fathers LBS my heart goes out to you. We didnt sign up for this crap. We have to raise a kid dealing with a madman.
Sigh...
So we have been divorced now for 6 months and even living in different coutries.
I am back in the USA for work, to support my alimony checks.
Of course she is still emotional and argumentative and blames me for all.
No matter how much I give or do I am always at fault.
We skype so I can see the kid, and she complains about how difficult it is to raise it alone.
How I didn't leave her my car. Which I offered and she called a piece of junk back then.
And I prepaid alimony till the end of the year. But still she is pointing fingers at me.
Like an immature 4 year old. Who thinks the world revolves around her.
I really don't know what to do. Every time we talk I smoke again, even though I quit this year.
I know the advice is to validate her.
I cant. Really I cant anymore. She keeps adding to the list. It has tired me tremendously.
Wonder if the vets, pros or anyone really has any advice on how to handle this.
I know this is hard on her. But all of this was her choice. All of it.
Its not my fault the greener pastures didn't exist. We all know that here.
Shes your exww now. Do you have some hope of R? If not then why validate anything? Just ignore her. Thats what I do with my exww. Of she sends me emails or texts that have nothing to do with the kids I dont respond. I ignore her.
I saw my exww last night at one of my kids school activities. She was tearing up when my son ran to me when I pulled up. Seriously. BPD is strong. You need to get to where I am. I am indifferent to her. She has no impact on my life. She literally doesnt matter anymore. Only the kids and my life matter.
GZ, very sorry you're still getting treated so poorly by her. I'm in complete agreement with ST, don't validate personal attacks. Normally I would say draw a boundary and tell her you will not be treated that way and hang up on her if needed, but unfortunately you've got to suffer it just to be able to talk to your kid it sounds like. I would suggest just not engaging at all. She attacks, you act bored and say "can I speak to (name) now please."
thanks guys, as you put it AS, any contact we have is because of our kid.
But she milks it for everything, knowing my love for him.
So her concern is that she wants the car I left behind. To drive the kid to school on cold winter days coming up.
She makes a valid point, but when I offered it last month she turned it down.
Now my dad has it.
I got my dad to agree to pick up the kid at her place on the cold days and drive him to school.
But she doesn't want to see my dad. She only wants the car.
Whenever I would reason with her in the past, she acted like she had it all planned.
Now that its collapsing - like we all knew it would - she is even crazier.
She made this choice. I hate to clean it up.
By making my dad her chauffer now, by me paying big alimony checks.
By always keeping my temper in control, to not have my son see all this.
Man, we should we very careful who we decide to have kids with.
I thought I was, but human beings are great at hiding the dark side. Until they don't.
I don't want to bore you with all this, as we are all fighting a version of this.
Of that I am sure.
I have a back hoe and a lot of property with coyotes if you need a viable solution... Lol..Sorry you are dealing with hell hath and fury all for the sake of seeing your kid.
thanks IHCLACS, yeah, seems even after you are done with them, when there are kids you are never really done
At least in 2 more years my son will be able to call me himself, now we are both dependent on her mood swings to allow that to happen.
Shes your exww now. Do you have some hope of R? If not then why validate anything? Just ignore her. Thats what I do with my exww. Of she sends me emails or texts that have nothing to do with the kids I dont respond. I ignore her.
I saw my exww last night at one of my kids school activities. She was tearing up when my son ran to me when I pulled up. Seriously. BPD is strong. You need to get to where I am. I am indifferent to her. She has no impact on my life. She literally doesnt matter anymore. Only the kids and my life matter.
Brilliant post and advice. If you don't want her back, you don't need to be the lighthouse, you just need to focus on you and the kids.
She makes a valid point, but when I offered it last month she turned it down.
Now my dad has it.
I got my dad to agree to pick up the kid at her place on the cold days and drive him to school.
But she doesn't want to see my dad. She only wants the car.
Doesn't sound like she's in a position to negotiate. I would tell her she has two choices, A) allow your dad to drive him or B) figure it out herself. She wants the car? Tough, that's no longer an option because SHE decided she didn't want it and you made other arrangements as a result, and now that can't be undone. What is she going to do, rant and rave and be crazy? She's already doing that!
Whenever I would reason with her in the past, she acted like she had it all planned.
Now that its collapsing - like we all knew it would - she is even crazier.
And you can't fix that. You could go out and buy her a new car and she'd find reasons to be mad about it. It's not good enough, it doesn't get good enough mileage, doesn't have the options she wants, etc. etc. Point being, you CAN'T appease her so don't try.
Man, we should we very careful who we decide to have kids with.
I thought I was, but human beings are great at hiding the dark side. Until they don't.
So true, but some of these men and women described here (like your W) sound so vastly different than they were before that I'm not sure you could have predicted their future behavior.
Gzabetas ,
I am glad you are here my friend. I hope you are detached enough to realise that your son’s love for you will never fade . You will ALWAYS hold a special, mystical and respectful role in his life . I know it is hard , but try not to react to emotions and think of how a man would respond to the baiting from your ex . Always do the right thing for your son whether it feels like you want to do the opposite, be strong , do the right thing , you can do it
Its been a while since I posted.
Almost 10 months divorced, and we both have moved on. In different countries. She has the kid so I visited her a few weeks ago for the first time in a while, to see my child.
I saw a different person in my ex. Welcoming me in her home, appeasing, the old jokes we had, the chemistry was all there. But what did it mean?
I cant forget the things this person did to me. I was crucified and humiliated and left for dead. She probably prayed for me to be dead.
And now … laughs, sweetness. Wait, is that our photo on the wall? This is all strange.
I give her a compliment about her new bedroom, which looks cool. I told her "you made it", and was happy for her.
Her independence. And she smiled and the same time held back a tear, as she palmed her eye as if in pain.
Too quick to miss, but I saw it. And I will always remember it. It hurt me more than her probably, but damn if I showed it to her. I pretended as if I didn't see it. Then it means it never happened.
After all this is what she wanted.
And I could sense for the first time, that she is regretting all of this.
its all sinking in now, the miracle we had, the bubble she left us for, and the fatality of our future.
But I cant forget that any future relationship with this person, would have me "sleeping with one eye open", since
she unleashed such weapons of mass destruction on me in the end. The fact that I lived is a miracle.
But there is our child looking at both of us, asking me to stick around longer. Showing me photos of all three of us.
I have no idea where I am even at in this phase.
Its a different kind of pain.
Wonder if anyone else has crossed this barrier.....
Hello gzabetas-
I just read through all the posts in this thread, I am very sorry that you went through all that....esp now you’re so far away from you son. I commend you for staying cordial with your ex-wife for you son’s sake.
You don’t have to forget what she did to you, but have you forgiven her? To forgive her is to release yourself from all the anger and pain that come with the memory.....which I still sense from your words.
She might be regretting her past behavior but it does not mean she wants to reconcile. Don’t burden yourself with the thought. It sounds like you are questioning whether you’d want to R. But I think you need to heal first....
Does your pain come from being so far away from your son?
- if this is not some easy to change because of work, let it go for now. Make the most out of your time together.
Does your pain come from seeing your ex and thinking she’s having regrets?
- it doesn’t matter what she’s thinking. If she’s doing well, you should be happy that your son is being taken care of by someone who’s mind is in a good place.
Does your pain come from the past destruction?
- you need to heal from that first.
You can both still be great parents to your child. Your son is still young, naturally he enjoys having both mommy and daddy together with him. Enjoy the moments when you guys are spending pleasant time together. Married or not, it will sure be great memories not because of your ex-wife but because your son was part of it.
And now … laughs, sweetness. Wait, is that our photo on the wall? This is all strange.
Yeah that's what happens when you remove all pressure. Doesn't mean she wants to recon (yet), but she's finally starting to remember that things weren't all bad. Eventually she'll remember that things were pretty good.
And I could sense for the first time, that she is regretting all of this.
its all sinking in now, the miracle we had, the bubble she left us for, and the fatality of our future.
Maybe. Maybe not. Best not to try and read her mind.
I have no idea where I am even at in this phase.
Its a different kind of pain.
Wonder if anyone else has crossed this barrier.....
Yes eventually we all move on or reconcile, or move on and then reconcile. You'll get there, but it does take time. Have patience with yourself! You've come a very long way, and you've already been through the worst of it. You'll be fine.
And now … laughs, sweetness. Wait, is that our photo on the wall? This is all strange.
Yeah that's what happens when you remove all pressure. Doesn't mean she wants to recon (yet), but she's finally starting to remember that things weren't all bad. Eventually she'll remember that things were pretty good.
Truth!
gzabetas, listen to AS. Now is not the time to pursue or pressure. Now is the time to even back off more. When she wants to recon you won't have to guess, she will make it abundantly clear. But the part I love that AS says is "Eventually she'll remember that things were pretty good."
This is exactly what happened in my sitch. On BD my W wasn't happy a day of our almost 19 years together. Obviously this wasn't true but that is what she had convinced herself of. As I GAL, 180'd, detached, that memory started to change to remembering that things weren't all bad. And eventually she got to the point where she remembered that things were pretty good. Now if you asked her, she'd say that other than some rough spots, we have had a pretty good marriage of almost 21 years. Funny how that works, eh?
wooba, wow thanks for reading my entire thread!
All those things you mentioned are in my mind.
The change was going back and seeing her anguish and suffering. I was away, and positive things were happening in my life finally, but returning and seeing their pain saddens you.
Its like seeing a drug addict throw their life away I guess. Seeing her big heart and her hopeful - almost teary eyes, that notion that things will turn up for her, blind to the fact that she is constantly engineering her downfall.
As the script goes in this forum, she has burned bridges with friends and relatives and is truly alone.
She didnt look healthy, complexion-wise, and I could see she was happy with the joy I brought in their lives for a few days. She actually said "If you had found a job here earlier, maybe we wouldnt have divorced".
Well tutored here I dont fall for her comments, and simply acknowledge.
AS and Steve thanks for your advice. You have always been there, this entire journey.
And I do know this takes time.
Time for me.
Then keep DBing my friend G!
Give time the time.
Keep strong there!