What do I do? Ignore ? part 2 - DivorceBusting.com

Jimmy Rig here

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2841305&page=11

I'm at the point now with her being at her parents house recovering for 2 months from the lung issue and now much better (1/2 mile away) and the kids sleeping back and forth bc some days I can go to work late asking her "What is so bad in our marriage that can't be worked on.

So turn. Been all about 180 and GAL and getting the boys out on the boat.

Thoughts? Or just let it lay and the option work on stuff or D is in her hands. Right?

I am having a little trouble following this last post. Are you asking if you should ask her What is so bad in our marriage that can't be worked on?"

The answer is NO. Do not ask that.

Yes, That is what I was asking.

JR,

You can ask that question but you better be prepared to get kicked in the nuts.

LBS have this fantasy that if they ask that question the WW will say � you know what? That�s a great idea why didn�t I think of that first?�

You�ll know if and when she�s ready to work on it.

Originally Posted by LH19

You can ask that question but you better be prepared to get kicked in the nuts.

In fact, just walk up to a random stranger and offer them 20 dollars to swiftly kick you in the nuts. It's a far better alternative than the temperature check you're thinking about.

10 4

Always love the brutal truth to straighten me out.

As always

thx

I agree. Don't ever ask that. Before I found this site, before I confirmed PA. I went for a long "Walk" with the WW trying to just talk. I was simply trying to validate her feelings and see if I could gain a foothold on working on our MR. Bad idea. It turned into an hour of her kicking me in the nuts. Sure, she wanted me to just validate everything including all of her unjustified views that her and OM made up to give her "reasons" why she was cheating. F**K that noise! Don't do it.

JR,

Brutal honesty is the only way to go. We're not here to blow smoke up your a$$.

Trust us we saved you a lot of pain.

Keep moving forward!

She set up this program for the town through the department she is the Director of and last night was the launch info night. Should I text her this message or do nothing? Validation is her number one Love Language.

"The Mayors Fitness program you set up looks cool and it's very impressive. I hope it does well. "

Thanks

JR,

I�m guessing you mean �words of affirmation� is her number 1 love language.

Sure send her a text. Just know it changes nothing.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

She set up this program for the town through the department she is the Director of and last night was the launch info night. Should I text her this message or do nothing? Validation is her number one Love Language.

"The Mayors Fitness program you set up looks cool and it's very impressive. I hope it does well. "

Thanks

Yeah I think that sounds fine. Not sure if you've heard the "friendly neighbor" approach described here, but basically that's how you should treat her. If it's something you would say to a neighbor then it's generally OK to say it to a WAS.

So this morning I get this text about how she is hoping I have great day and she is so excited to return to work at least for the half day (now she is well enough from the lung infection and needing to live at her parents) and she is looking forward to the future health and healthy changes.

I respond with a nice return of I'm glad she is better and well enough and to please take it easy out of the gate. And will I see her at the kids swim class?

She says thanks and she will be there!

She has been at her parents for the month and a half after the hospital bc I need to be up so early and out for work that the in-laws have helped out with the kids. They live 1/2 mile away. I take them 3 night a week bc I can go in late and get them to school.

Long story short is I'm not sure if she is being nice to deliver a blow (papers), re-ask to split time back in our house or the time and space have allowed her to think a bit and my anxiety is through the roof.

In earlier posts it was stated to hold my ground and not split time and let her know that she can always be back in the house and we can work on stuff. But 3 weeks ago she texted me that the marriage is over and if I went over there to watch movies with the kids that I was not to sit next to her. Then she got into a arguement with her mom and texted me she wanted to come home but then said no bc she did not want to be in the house with me.

Thoughts?
I know I should not get to amped or excited and am just taking it in and going with the flow and letting her make the moves.

Thanks

JR,

Not sure what you�re asking? If the text is a sign she changed her mind?

Just thoughts on the text, attitude and confirming my approach to not move out or split time in the house.

If she is in a better mood and place bc of how she feels and still think the marriage is over so be it.

She can easily stay at her parents house and once school is done the boys can be at our house full time and I could drop them off at camp

J,

Yeah my guess is she�s buttering you up for some sort a request on her part.

Stand your ground. No splitting time no moving out. Every decision you make is what is best for you.

I think you�re starting to get the hang of it.

I reread sections of the book and some of DB videos but I'm lost on what other 180's to apply.

She is still at her parents house and has been recovery for almost 2 months. We have had no conflicts or arguments.
Splitting time with the kids and still no papers from her.

Do I just keep being the good guy non confrontational bc there really is no reason for arguing and let it all lay, give her space and wait for her while I GAL and out more?

Thx

JR,

Yes. Continue to GAL. Things will unfold one way or another.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Do I just keep being the good guy non confrontational bc there really is no reason for arguing and let it all lay, give her space and wait for her while I GAL and out more?
x

I think you know the answer to these questions. I mean, the opposite is to be confrontational, argue with her, not let things lie, smother her and sit home stewing in your own juices. Not a recipe for success.

The only thing I take issue with is "and wait for her". NO!! DO NOT WAIT FOR HER. Move forward with your life with or without her. This is the biggest mistake that LBSs make. Giving her space means to move forward without her, not to "wait" for her in any capacity.

Oh, and stop being so chatty on text.

Her: "I am doing better. Over the lung infection, and feeling good! Blah blah blah blah blah. Hope you are having a great day!"

You: Either do not respond (best since there was no question asked), or something short like "Good to hear. You have a good day too." (I prefer NO answer. Sometimes saying something short comes across as passive-aggressive.)

"And will I see her at the kids swim class?" Jimmy, how is that not pursuit and pressure?? You go to the class, if she shows great. If not great.

Quote

But 3 weeks ago she texted me that the marriage is over and if I went over there to watch movies with the kids that I was not to sit next to her. Then she got into a arguement with her mom and texted me she wanted to come home but then said no bc she did not want to be in the house with me.

BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS. Let me repeat. BELIEVE NOTHING SHE SAYS!!

The biggest mistake you are making, and almost all LBSs do this, is trying to apply logic to her madness. Logic works with sane, right-thinking people. Logic DOES NOT WORK when dealing with crazy people. Your WAW is a nutcase. They all are. They don't even know what they are feeling from moment to moment, so how could you possibly know??

Stop focusing on her. Drop the rope. Stand your ground. Make decisions that are right, logic, and make sense. Sharing time in the house DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. Many have tried that and many of failed miserably. The LBS should never leave the marital home until and when ordered to do so by a court of law.

Jimmy, deep breaths. Step back and look at your sitch objectively. If you were watching a friend go through what you are going through, what advice would you give to him?

Oh and you asked about 180s.

Look at what you are doing. 180 on things that aren't working (waiting for her, engaging her in texts messages that do not ask a direct question, focusing too much on her).

Do what works (DBing....), stop doing what doesn't (pressure and pursuit).

Jimmy, you cannot nice her back. Stop trying.

What should I say if she wants to move back into the house?

"Yes it's fine but I'm not looking to split the time in the house. I would like all of us to be here" But if your uncomfortable with that the boys can stay here and we can work on the schedule for school."

To much detail.

Just say ok.

Wait until she brings up terms. Then �that works for me� or �that doesn�t work for me�.

It is easy. You will NOT split time in the house. You live there. If she wants to live there, that is her right. And she can sleep anywhere she wants, but you are keeping the MBR.

Put your foot down. Be a man. Earn her respect back. She will be angry. She will be upset. She will cuss you out. But she WILL respect you.

I'm on it.

Thx

Definitely not moving out and want everyone back in the house.

I just wanted to feel out how to word it non confrontationally

I have been 180 ing. And all has been smooth. I'm waiting around doing nothing but that was in reference to waiting for her to want to work on the MR or giving me papers.

Been re reading DR for reassurance and back up energy and inspiration.

thx

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Definitely not moving out and want everyone back in the house.

I just wanted to feel out how to word it non confrontationally

I have been 180 ing. And all has been smooth. I'm waiting around doing nothing but that was in reference to waiting for her to want to work on the MR or giving me papers.

Been re reading DR for reassurance and back up energy and inspiration.

thx

I agree with LH. Short and sweet.

Her: "I want to move back home."

You: "Ok."

Her: "Can we discuss a schedule for who stays at the house and when."

You: "I will not move out."

Her: "WHAT? BLAH BLAH BLAH."

You: Listen and validate. (Read the validation thread.)

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Definitely not moving out and want everyone back in the house.

I just wanted to feel out how to word it non confrontationally

Great advice from Steve and LH above. DO NOT fall into the usual LBS trap of being too wordy, don't turn things into a negotiation. Don't tell her you want her to move back. In fact, your attitude should be "that's not what I want but I won't stop you." She needs time and space right now. Moving back is not going to help things even though it may seem like a good idea to you. It's just going to heighten the tension.

Just like Steve and LH said, she says she wants to move back you say "OK" and that's it. No emotions. She says she wants to know what the nesting arrangement is you politely inform her you aren't going anywhere. She rants and raves you listen and validate. Afterwards when she asks again for the nesting arrangement (thinking she has coerced you into agreeing) you remind her you already made your stance clear on that. Be kind but firm. You're the rock, you're not going to be pushed around or bullied into submission.

This is what I got from her a year ago after an arguement and we both cooled off and I suggested we write down what we would like to see change in our marriage.

1 Compassion
2 Love, to feel loved all the time
3 To be an equal, which means equal help with chores and stuff around the house
4.More family time
5 A relaxed atmosphere at home, not tense
6.Compromise and not feel like it your way or no way all the time
7 To be heard
8.Not to be yelled at
9 To feel less like a roommate and more like a wife
10 To feel like you are proud of me
11 To feel that you are in full support of my career and aspirations
12 To not be scared to tell or ask you something ie work late, weekend or go out with the girls
13 To not have to tell /ask you to do something. I'm the boss at work I don't want to be the boss at home and of you too
14 To not be resentful

I have always been proud of her and her job but working late or bringing it home became the norm to be on the computer late into the night.
She admits she assumed what my actions or attitude might be with asking or telling me something and never let me know that and never asked me the question.

I'm not a mind reader so a wall was being built wo me knowing it.

The yelling to her was more of my tone when we had disagreements not the volume and I never knew that or made the distinction until recently when I was pretty much whispering with an attitude to not wake the kids,

Her having to ask me or tell me to do something like take the laundry downstairs or do the dishes was to me well your idea of a full basket is different then mine and the same with the dishes. Trust me I did the dishes and took the laundry down a lot without being asked but her idea of full is different then mine and it was never overflowing.

More family time was a weird one. We go on trips, camping, sailing, to the beach or just backyard it all the time.

I could definitely compromise more and she could be more firm for her idea. She is very powerful at work and strong so I know at home people don't want to be in the same roles as work and I as a teacher need some non kid time at the end of the day to just not be asked questions.

After this list we were chill for 2 months w no fights and then over the summer she started to pull away I got the I love you but .......... and I think of you more like a friend.

She has not asked to move back to the house yet bc she is still recovering and I know I should have wrote this list at the start of my being here and reading the book but HOW CAN I 180 MORE wo her being here?

Or am I on the right track and just need to keep being patient?

She is at her parents recovering from the lung infection, the boys are back and forth some nights of the week.

I have pulled way back and given her space and stopped all talks and pressure on the MR, GAL and being the best for me and the boys.

Sorry so long.

Just to add

I make half the dinners,split the showering and bathing of the kids, split the week reading books and tucking them in. I take care of all the yard work, make and change the boys beds. I thought we had a pretty good system.

My thinking was that any or all of these could have been brought of in a discussion, email or maybe a note if she was nervous talking to me. But instead it all festered.

Thx JR

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

I make half the dinners,split the showering and bathing of the kids, split the week reading books and tucking them in. I take care of all the yard work, make and change the boys beds. I thought we had a pretty good system.

= not sexy

Those are great things Jimmy, you are a good husband! But that all falls squarely in the "beta" category. Your goal is to be a mix of alpha and beta. A lot of us lose touch with our alpha side in marriage. We depend on our wives to wash our underwear, feed us, decide where we are going and what time etc. etc. We lose our attractiveness. Get back in touch with your alpha. You've got the beta stuff down, NO ADDITIONAL WORK IS REQUIRED THERE. Too many LBS's double down on beta after BD, but being a good little house-husband won't bring her back. Read the Married Man Sex Life Primer. It's a bit on the crude side at times, but it's the best thing I've read on the difference between alpha and beta behavior.

Her rings have been off for two months. Should I take mine off to make a statement?

Is keeping it on a sign of persuing or hope?

I don't know. Limbo [censored] but its better then getting served papers.

thoughts?

Thx Jimmy

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Her rings have been off for two months. Should I take mine off to make a statement?

Is keeping it on a sign of persuing or hope?

I don't know. Limbo [censored] but its better then getting served papers.

thoughts?

Thx Jimmy

1) DO not do things to make a statement. Anything you do to try to manipulate her will look weak.

2) You are still married. Wear your ring until that changes.

3) Keeping your ring on is in no way pursuit. Taking it off to make a statement is pressure though.

Limbo is the gift of time. Use it wisely...focus on you. GAL, 180s, and work on detachment. Be the best dad you can be. Be a man only a fool would leave.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Her rings have been off for two months. Should I take mine off to make a statement?

Is keeping it on a sign of persuing or hope?

I don't know. Limbo [censored] but its better then getting served papers.

thoughts?

Thx Jimmy

I took mine off when I confirmed PA. Its up to you, but it is a sign of how you feel if you take them off. If you are going to take them off, then make sure that you are doing it for you, not as a statement to her.

I feel like i've had enough and just want to have my L hire a PI to get to the bottom of everything.

Thoughts?

I'm done wondering

JR, how is that focusing on you?

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

I feel like i've had enough and just want to have my L hire a PI to get to the bottom of everything.

Thoughts?

I'm done wondering

First ask yourself, if she's having an A then will that change your approach towards DB'ing? Is it a deal-killer for you, like you will immediately file for D? Or would you just continue DB'ing to see where things go? If you are going to keep DB'ing anyway then what's the point of knowing. Just assume the worst and move on. That is exactly what I did, I just assumed my XW was in an affair even though I never had solid evidence of it.

I sail, I stand up paddle, surf, take the boys hiking , hang with friends and feel like i'm being played and can't sleep.
How much more can I focus on me?

What else should I do to 180? I have not pressured her or talked about anything for 3 months.

Talking w a DB coach tomorrow night. Maybe that will help my head.

I'm not sure if its a deal breaker. I do not like assuming anything. I'm a science teacher and deal with evidence.

I think you missed the point. Focusing on YOU means NOT focusing on her. It isn't a scorecard. "Ok today I focused on me, tomorrow I can focus on her!" Always be focusing on yourself.

But yes, talk to the DB coach. And then decide a course of action.

Last week I asked to switch weekend night bc of work and if I could have the kids Saturday and saturday night and she said no problem.

So this morning I text her we are looking to go to see Aladdin and she is welcome to come Saturday night bc the boys asked if she was coming.

Then she says she was going to take them and some friends to see it bc she loves Aladdin and if I could see another movie and I am taking it away from her and now its the Jimmy way or no way again and thats why we will never reconcile.

I asked her how did she not think I would mind her taking them on a night she already OK'd for me to have them.

There has been no response from her.

Should I let her take the night and have her way with the movie and no Dad or movie with no Mom? Or stand my ground.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Last week I asked to switch weekend night bc of work and if I could have the kids Saturday and saturday night and she said no problem.

So this morning I text her we are looking to go to see Aladdin and she is welcome to come Saturday night bc the boys asked if she was coming.

Then she says she was going to take them and some friends to see it bc she loves Aladdin and if I could see another movie and I am taking it away from her and now its the Jimmy way or no way again and thats why we will never reconcile.

I asked her how did she not think I would mind her taking them on a night she already OK'd for me to have them.

There has been no response from her.

Should I let her take the night and have her way with the movie and no Dad or movie with no Mom? Or stand my ground.

Thoughts?

Stand your ground.

What do you stand to gain by letting her take the night?

I hired a PI. They confirmed PA. It hurt but lifted a weight off my shoulders because I truly knew she was gaslighting me and that there was nothing I could do. My EXWW was and still does blame me for everything. She was telling me that her BD was a result of me, when in fact it was a result of her choice to betray me and destroy our family.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Last week I asked to switch weekend night bc of work and if I could have the kids Saturday and saturday night and she said no problem.

So this morning I text her we are looking to go to see Aladdin and she is welcome to come Saturday night bc the boys asked if she was coming.

Then she says she was going to take them and some friends to see it bc she loves Aladdin and if I could see another movie and I am taking it away from her and now its the Jimmy way or no way again and thats why we will never reconcile.

I asked her how did she not think I would mind her taking them on a night she already OK'd for me to have them.

There has been no response from her.

Should I let her take the night and have her way with the movie and no Dad or movie with no Mom? Or stand my ground.

Thoughts?

Quote

So this morning I text her we are looking to go to see Aladdin and she is welcome to come Saturday night bc the boys asked if she was coming.

Jimmy, sorry, but I am not buying this. If your boys asked "is our neighbor Mr. So-and-so going wtih us?" you would have said, "No guys, it is just us." But because it is the WAW, whom you desperately want to save things with, you use their asking as an excuse to ask her.

And you got your grapes crushed for it.

Do use your "boys asking if she was coming" as an excuse to not DB. DBing would have been to just take them Saturday and had a blast. When she freaked out "I WAS PLANNING ON TAKING THEM TO SEE THAT!" you can come back with validation. "I can see that this has upset you. That was not what I was trying to do." (Read the validation thread.)

As far as the night in question, no do not let her take the night. "I already have plans for the boys and me that night."

When she blows up, listen and validate.

Notice what I said about neighbor Mr. So-and-so above. That is the place you need to get to with her. Where she has no or less significance than any other acquaintance in your life. That is detachment.

And detachment is what you need Jimmy. Trust the process, trust yourself.

Have either of you been in an affair, or behaved inappropriately with the opposite sex? If she has some OM in her head, then fixing those things of her complaint list won't be very effective in fixing the true problem in the MR.

Quote

1 Compassion
2 Love, to feel loved all the time
3 To be an equal, which means equal help with chores and stuff around the house
4.More family time
5 A relaxed atmosphere at home, not tense
6.Compromise and not feel like it your way or no way all the time
7 To be heard
8.Not to be yelled at
9 To feel less like a roommate and more like a wife
10 To feel like you are proud of me
11 To feel that you are in full support of my career and aspirations
12 To not be scared to tell or ask you something ie work late, weekend or go out with the girls
13 To not have to tell /ask you to do something. I'm the boss at work I don't want to be the boss at home and of you too
14 To not be resentful

These complaints listed above, are actually the easiest things in a MR to resolve, IMHO. It's just a matter of finding a solution that is workable, and both spouses cooperating. That's all.

Quote

She is very powerful at work and strong so I know at home people don't want to be in the same roles as work and I as a teacher need some non kid time at the end of the day to just not be asked questions.

I can understand how a person may not want to deal with the same issues at home that they have to put up with all day on the job.........however, if she is in a position of power in the workplace, it may not easy for her to go home and change hats. If she's making huge decisions, dealing with problems all day, and/or giving out orders on her job, and then comes home to find a husband who just wants to chill and watch tv or whatever instead of jumping in to get the chores done.........my bet is that she's going to start giving out orders at home. Not that she wants to boss him around, but b/c he acts as if he has to be told what to do! (That's from the woman's point of view.) Same thing goes for SAHM's when they are dealing with young children all day. If the H comes home and acts as if he's just another person for her to take care of...........she's going to act as if she's his mother.

Quote

I have always been proud of her and her job but working late or bringing it home became the norm to be on the computer late into the night.

So, how do you communicate just how proud you are of her as a woman, and of her accomplishments in her career? I understand the part about bringing work home or staying late. It is very wearing on a MR, especially when raising children. Again, there is a solution to this problem, but it may require more changes than someone is willing to make. Today's young families are trying to cram too much into 24 hours......and something has to give, or it breaks.

Let me ask some questions. Who draws the bigger paycheck? Are both of you in the field of education? Do you usually get home well before she does? What is the main source for tension at home? How's the sex life? I'm guessing it's not great.

Another guess is that one of your W's love languages is words of affirmation. She doesn't feel that her H is filling her emotional needs. If she's lost her respect, and I'm pretty sure she has......then she doesn't desire him, and that leads to trouble in the bedroom where they blame one another for the lack of good sex. Having been there myself, I can testify that a H can show his resentment for the lack of good sex.....in many ways.

In her list of complaints, I'm hearing a woman who works too much and doesn't feel she gets enough fun times, nor romantic times. I am led to think you might be a bit grouchy. Both of you are resenting each other.......and resentment can be the death of a loving MR.

Quote

She has not asked to move back to the house yet bc she is still recovering and I know I should have wrote this list at the start of my being here and reading the book but HOW CAN I 180 MORE wo her being here?

Well first, you have to be seen as a man she respects. If she has had issues of resentment for a long time, it has probably caused her to lose some respect, as well. If she's not in an affair, you can work on this list of complaints and how to show her words of affirmation, as a W & mother, a woman, and her accomplishments at work. You can decide how you can make changes in being more supportive at home. You don't have to do 100% of the chores, but try to what you can before she tells you. For me, my H helped the most by taking care of the children in the evenings while I did the cooking and housework. BTW, women resent having to tell their H he needs to take out the trash or wash a load of towels. We actually think they should be able to see the garbage running over onto the floor, and notice there are no clean towels.......but as you've pointed out, it's a difference in how we see things.

Okay, I'm getting too long here, so I'll stop for now. If I've missed where you told that she was cheating, please let me know.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Last week I asked to switch weekend night bc of work and if I could have the kids Saturday and saturday night and she said no problem.

So this morning I text her we are looking to go to see Aladdin and she is welcome to come Saturday night bc the boys asked if she was coming.

I agree with Steve, you should have just taken them and not asked her to join or told her what you were doing.

Quote

Then she says she was going to take them and some friends to see it bc she loves Aladdin and if I could see another movie and I am taking it away from her and now its the Jimmy way or no way again and thats why we will never reconcile.

I would reply back that you're sure they would be happy to see it twice so she's welcome to take them again whenever she wants. Just ignore the blaming and threats about never reconciling, it's not like you haven't heard that before.

Sandi

Neither of us has acted inappropriately or had an affair as far as I know on her side
I cannot confirm that she is having an EA or PA and so want to know to lift the wondering.
We both pull in about the same and usually get home around the same time to pick the boys up from the in-laws.

Our sex life up to a year ago was very good once or twice a week and fun.

Her 1st love language is definitely affirmation and next would be gifts.

The main tension I guess before this all blew up was splitting household duties and the house being as clean as she wanted. I was very active in doing dinner and dishes splitting the responsiblities. So the mystery is why is she so adamant about thinking its not fixable or workable and making it better, different and better.

Should I buy Divorce Busting or is more of the same as in Divorce Remedy?

thx

Now its manipulation. The boys and I are going to the movies tonight and they asked
if mommy could come and I said I would ask her if she wanted to.

Then this exchange.

Her I do want to see it but I don't think all of us going together is a good idea. What time is the movie?

Me Ok I'm sorry you feel that way. We are going to the 6:40

Her And if we all went together, what message would it send to the boys?

Me I'm not sure what message we are sending to them now.

Her Im not sure what you're saying to them, particularly when they say things to me, but I have told them repeatedly this is the new normal. I live with nanny for now, and daddy lives at the house for now. We both love them very much and will always be family no matter where we live, just like our cousins and other family who live elsewhere

Her I still think, you think we are going to be together. And we will never be.

And if you continue to plant thoughts in their heads, you will do more damage to them

Me I don't say anything to them except that I love them and everyone in our family. I'm not planting any thoughts.

Her You do not get to manipulate me anymore

Me.
I apologized for that and for never realizing or knowing that you thought and felt I was manipulative. I would never want to do that and would never do it again. I'm sorry.

Thoughts/ support ?? No papers yet, no talk of separating finances just talk of it's not fixable.

I've been doing phone sessions w Leni.
Should I give her the line of "I'm sorry you feel our relationship is so hopeless but I dont fee this separation or divorce is the solution but I love you enough to let you go. ?

Or just it all lay and do my thing DB ING until she makes a move?

thx

Lay low until she makes a move.

I have yet to hear anyone say when they made that statement that the WS said "Oh well I guess you do love me that much. Let's make this work".

Jimmy? You in NJ near Atlantic Highlands?

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Her You do not get to manipulate me anymore

Me.
I apologized for that and for never realizing or knowing that you thought and felt I was manipulative. I would never want to do that and would never do it again. I'm sorry.

Don't agree/ disagree/ apologize/ grovel/ negotiate/ etc. Simply LISTEN and VALIDATE. "It sounds like that was very frustrating for you, feeling manipulated." "Yes, frustrating is a good word." "I am sorry you were frustrated, that must have been difficult for you." You're not accepting blame, or making it about blame. You are merely acknowledging her feelings. You don't have to agree with her feelings to validate them.

Quote

Thoughts/ support ?? No papers yet, no talk of separating finances just talk of it's not fixable.

Yes, this kind of talk is VERY typical. It is only how she feels at this particular moment in time. It can and will change down the road. Read through Steve's sitch and you'll see his WAS said a lot of the same things and they are back together and doing quite well. WAS's speak in absolutes, it rips hope away from the LBS but it shouldn't because she will be singing a different tune in time.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

I've been doing phone sessions w Leni.
Should I give her the line of "I'm sorry you feel our relationship is so hopeless but I dont fee this separation or divorce is the solution but I love you enough to let you go. ?

Or just it all lay and do my thing DB ING until she makes a move?

Yeah don't pressure her with those kind of comments. If she comes to you and says she is leaving, THEN you can say that. Maybe leave "love" out of it and say something like "I wish you would stay and work on the M but I understand that is not what you want and I will respect your wishes." That's almost word-for-word what I said to my XW when she said she was leaving. Later came "why do I have to be the one to leave?" My response to that was "you are the one that wants this, not me. If you choose to leave then that's your choice, but I am not going anywhere." And she did indeed leave, so you need to accept that saying this probably isn't going to change her mind. But WAS's feel trapped and you have to "open the cage door" for them. You don't push them out of the cage, you simply let them know the door is open and you're not blocking it.

How do I find Steve's thread?

thx

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

How do I find Steve's thread?

thx

Try this

How to find a thread

Try clicking on users NAME
SHOW POSTS
Then at the top right it says TOPICS CREATED - click there

I'm still coaching with Leni and she is great but she wants me to write an apology letter outlining how sorry I am with the issues I can claim in out relationship that have caused our issues.

I have written a letter before and some other with little movement or no movement forward.

Has anyone had any movement from letter writing and getting it out there?

Thoughts?

Thx and Steve85 's thread has been helpful

JR,

In 4 years I have yet to see a letter work. Read Uchens thread.

Originally Posted by LH19

JR,

In 4 years I have yet to see a letter work. Read Uchens thread.

Seconded!!!!

I would say if you do a letter don�t go over the top. There is advice out there about apologizing in this manner but it was a mistake in my sitch. I�ll report back if my opinion changes.

I would add: I read tons of advice on how to apologize specifically for emotionally abusive behavior. My W was upset that I showed no remorse (as she put it). So I apologized. I said what I did. I said how it was wrong. I put myself in her shoes and empathized with how she must have felt. I said how I understood the issues driving my behaviors and I was working on them. I said I understood there were consequences if I didn�t change (I even said I understood she might have to leave with the kids if she felt unsafe- keep in mind no yelling or physical abuse in our MR).

All of these are tips on a �good� apology letter. On how to show proper remorse. And I meant it all.

W never even acknowledged receiving them. They are probably stashed outside our house as evidence of my nuttiness.

BE CAREFUL. In retrospect I wish I still wrote a letter but scaled it back. More of an intro to hopefully start the healing process, not fast forward it. But also... keep in mind whatever you do, try not to have a specific outcome in mind. Letters are frowned upon because they are permanent. They can be revisited in detail at any time. I like conversations which are distorted by memory.

Unlike not �I like�

Thx Everyone

10 4 on the nix on the letter.

Either that or scale it waaaaaaay back. I would guess the common mistake is to pour out your heart.

I wrote a letter. XW didn't acknowledge it. It didn't help a bit. Since the letter, which was about a month after she told me she wanted a divorce and a couple of months before the divorce went final, I have DB'd like a madman.

I have the boys and the pup for the next 2 nights (she is still staying at our parents) and our little guy has a bday party next weekend in the back yard. She asks if everything including the house is going to be cleaned up and ready for the set up.

I was ready to blow my top with the way she said it but I was like I would like some help to get it ready bc I'm not sure where you would like some stuff to go and your "ready" might be different then my ready but still clean.

Then she wanted to borrow the truck to go pick up a vanity and toilet for the upstairs bathroom. I said I needed it to tow the boat to go out with our boys and I would also like to have a say in the style and look of both bathroom pieces.

I'm so ready to just say S!*!*w it i'm done but then I think of the boys and the impact it will have on their lives for ever.
Told me back in February that papers were coming after all Fall hearing she didn't know what she wanted and then a month ago not to think it was fixable bc it was over and two weeks ago there would be no reconciling. All to which I just stayed chill

What else can I do? I feel like giving her her space and time is all I can do and be the best me and GAL'ing.

Thoughts? Encouragment? PLEASE!

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Told me back in February that papers were coming after all Fall hearing she didn't know what she wanted and then a month ago not to think it was fixable bc it was over and two weeks ago there would be no reconciling. All to which I just stayed chill

What else can I do? I feel like giving her her space and time is all I can do and be the best me and GAL'ing.

Thoughts? Encouragment? PLEASE!

That's all you can do... and work on letting go of the rope. Try to be at peace no matter what the outcome of your MR.

Unfortunately, the only person you can control is you. There is no way to make her do anything. She is going to do what she wants. Your job is to work on you. Not to get her back though. You do it so that no matter what she decides, you will be okay in the end. And if you do end up divorcing, you will be a better partner for the next person who comes along.

I so remember feeling the way you are feeling Jimmy. I was in agony over the unfairness of it and the suddenness of it and the fact that I basically got no say. I did not get married to get divorced. I most certainly did not have children with my H so I could be a 50% parent. At some point, though, I had to accept it and reimagine my life.

I worried incessantly about my kids not having the two-parent home the way I did growing up. Does it still bother me? You bet. They deserve better. The good news is that they have adjusted and are doing fairly well for the most part. They still have their two parents and they know that both of us love them. Do they wish we were together? I�m sure they do. But the bottom line is that they are okay and I think it is because they know that I am okay. I think the hardest part of me and their dad splitting up was seeing how sad I was. Seeing me happy has made a big difference.

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. DB and GAL for YOU. I promise there are better days ahead if you do. (((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

She asks if everything including the house is going to be cleaned up and ready for the set up.

I was ready to blow my top with the way she said it but I was like I would like some help to get it ready bc I'm not sure where you would like some stuff to go and your "ready" might be different then my ready but still clean.

Then she wanted to borrow the truck to go pick up a vanity and toilet for the upstairs bathroom. I said I needed it to tow the boat to go out with our boys and I would also like to have a say in the style and look of both bathroom pieces.

Be careful not to fall into "War of the Roses" mode. Sometimes couples that are having trouble can only see things through their own eyes, and they start to pick apart everything the other does as "wrong" and see conspiracy everywhere. Each of them thinks their spouse is to blame for everything when in fact they are both creating a lot of conflict and drama and it just feeds on itself. You've got to take the higher road, when she creates drama you remain neutral. You listen to her crazy spew and you validate. You are the rock that her storm rages against- solid, unmoving.

Quote

What else can I do? I feel like giving her her space and time is all I can do and be the best me and GAL'ing.

Thoughts? Encouragment? PLEASE!

You are exactly right- give her space and time and be the best "you" that you can be. Think of this as a life lesson in PATIENCE!

To reiterate the advice you've been given: PATIENCE

All you need is just a little patience. (Sorry couldn't help it, but when I struggle I often turn to music.)

I think I was doing well with patience and space.

I had the boys last night and the 6 to has been sick and was tossing and turning coughing and wheezing so I tried to get a hold of her to ask what she had done the prior nights to make him feel and sleep better.

A couple of texts and two call with 2 rings and then voicemail with good time in between. So I dial her moms cell and finally get through.

Then this exchange.

Her When you do what you did last night, call me and start yelling and questioning me, it tells me nothing has changed with you. I know you were scared, and I don't know why my phone never rang nor did that text come through until well after you yelled at me. But i'm not a punching bag for you. You don't get to abuse me like that. It's not warranted, or how you should treat any person. I only wish you could really hear and understand what I'm saying to you.

Me I hear what your saying to me and am sorry that I made you feel bad. I was scared and mad that you would not pick up because I was trying to make him feel better. I apologize for my tone and volume when I got to talk to you. Trust me I did not want to dial your mom. I never want you to feel like I'm abusing you and am sorry I did with my words last night.

I also felt ignored because of the time in between texts and then the no pick up and straight to voicemail and that was wrong of me to assume that.

Her This is the crux of all our problems and what ive been saying to you for over 12mo, yet nothing has changed. I believe it never will which is why we will not be together. For many years this is how you've treated me, using your words and harsh tone to beat me up, leaving me to feel insecure, like I don't matter, scared of you, and unhappy. I thought I could love you enough for both of us and make it work, but that's not a way to live. I shouldn't be scared of my husband. I should feel like an equal, spoken to respectfully, actually working through issues instead of empty "i'm sorry's" and requests for make up sex. I am a good person, a really good person, with high values, great morals, hopes and dreams, goals and a strong desire to be the best person I can be - successful in as many aspects of my life as possible. And I am working to instill those same things in Ridge and Lochlan. I will not allow you to take those traits from me.

Me I'm taking in all that you wrote and know you are an awesome woman and I have been working on myself. I never want you to feel insecure or scared. Our arguments to me were disagreements and then we moved on when we should gotten to the bottom of the issue and dealt with it better. I want you to feel like my equal and secure and safe and always support you in your goals. I may not have shown it but I'm always proud of what you do and have accomplished through an up hill struggle at work and admire your energy.

Her When I read what you wrote it shows me you still don't understand or believe what is happening. We will be getting divorced. We will not be together. I'm trying to be clear because I just dont think you get that

Sorry so long and if I'm shouldn't be copying and pasting tell me.

Did I blow it? Am I ��ed? Like I said still no papers since the threat in Feb or attempts at separating finances.

Ignore it and as always keep DB and GAL. Or deliver the I'm sorry you think our relationship is hopeless and I believe divorce is not the solution to our problems and I respect you enough to let you go " line?

Thanks. Sorry. And I just went to my new therapist. She is so far awesome. Way different then the one the wife and I went to together which I think got us deeper in trouble.

Quote

You've got to take the higher road, when she creates drama you remain neutral. You listen to her crazy spew and you validate. You are the rock that her storm rages against- solid, unmoving.

Thank you for this. To be �a rock� makes a lot more sense when you understand the nature of a rock. It does not react. It does not shift. It will not run or hide. It cannot.

What should I do if I think depression is causing our issues to be blown out of proportion?

Its full on stonewalling to talk about anything. Now she wants to meet to talk about how we should tell the boys and make appt. for counseling for them to deal with our split.

Thanks

Now she wants the kids 5yo and going to be 7 to meet with a therepist to help them cope after we tell them we are splitting up. I don't know if I will be able to keep it together when I see their look on their faces.

Thoughts? Encouragement

JR,

The only thing I can tell you is to try really hard to keep together for your kids. If they see your alright they are likely to be alright. If they see you fall apart they will likely fall apart. They are young so they probably won�t quite understand.

Stay strong my friend!

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Now she wants the kids 5yo and going to be 7 to meet with a therepist to help them cope after we tell them we are splitting up. I don't know if I will be able to keep it together when I see their look on their faces.

Thoughts? Encouragement

Keep it together for them.They need to see you strong and resolved. Be their rock. Remember, Alpha male. You can't control what happens to you but you can control how you react to it! Later, when you are alone, ball your eyes out.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Now she wants the kids 5yo and going to be 7 to meet with a therepist to help them cope after we tell them we are splitting up. I don't know if I will be able to keep it together when I see their look on their faces.

Thoughts? Encouragement

Sorry you are going through this JR, it's tough. I went through the whole "tell the kids" thing about 4 months ago and my kids are about the same ages as yours. The older one cried and the younger one didn't really get it. It was hard to see my kid crying and hurting but I manned-up and did not cry, instead I was comforting and reassuring. It actually wasn't even much of a struggle not to cry, I just told myself it wasn't going to happen, no way.

You can do the same. You have the strength within you to be an unwavering rock. Be strong for your kids and yourself. The stronger you are the better you will feel throughout the whole process.

Jimmy I'm going to warn you right now, prepare yourself for some incoming heavy lumber. Some people get 2x4's, I'm sending you some 4x8's. I would be remiss in my duty if I didn't try to help you right your wrongs, so please look at this as constructive criticism.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

I think I was doing well with patience and space.

I had the boys last night and the 6 to has been sick and was tossing and turning coughing and wheezing so I tried to get a hold of her to ask what she had done the prior nights to make him feel and sleep better.

A couple of texts and two call with 2 rings and then voicemail with good time in between. So I dial her moms cell and finally get through.

Then this exchange.

I think maybe there are some things you haven't been telling us about your interactions with your W. If there is truth in what she is saying, and it sounds like there is, then wow that is something you need to do a FAST and IMMEDIATE 180 on. That kind of passive/aggressive behavior is EXACTLY what kills marriages.

Quote

Her When you do what you did last night, call me and start yelling and questioning me, it tells me nothing has changed with you.

Is this really what you did? Your S was sick, which is YOUR responsibility because it's YOUR time to care for him, and you call her ranting and raving? Blow up her phone? Call her mom because she's not answering fast enough for you? THAT IS BAD, REALLY BAD.

Quote

But i'm not a punching bag for you. You don't get to abuse me like that. It's not warranted, or how you should treat any person. I only wish you could really hear and understand what I'm saying to you.

If you really did what she is saying, then she is completely correct on this. And not only that, from what I can see she is not being overly emotional in her delivery, but is instead being direct and truthful.

Quote

Me I hear what your saying to me and am sorry that I made you feel bad. I was scared and mad that you would not pick up because I was trying to make him feel better. I apologize for my tone and volume when I got to talk to you.

This sounds like an admission of guilt to me.

Quote

I also felt ignored because of the time in between texts and then the no pick up and straight to voicemail and that was wrong of me to assume that.

Do you think she is OBLIGATED to be at your beck and call when you have the kids? She is NOT!

Quote

Her This is the crux of all our problems and what ive been saying to you for over 12mo, yet nothing has changed. I believe it never will which is why we will not be together. For many years this is how you've treated me, using your words and harsh tone to beat me up, leaving me to feel insecure, like I don't matter, scared of you, and unhappy. I thought I could love you enough for both of us and make it work, but that's not a way to live. I shouldn't be scared of my husband. I should feel like an equal, spoken to respectfully, actually working through issues instead of empty "i'm sorry's" and requests for make up sex. I am a good person, a really good person, with high values, great morals, hopes and dreams, goals and a strong desire to be the best person I can be - successful in as many aspects of my life as possible. And I am working to instill those same things in (S1) and (S2). I will not allow you to take those traits from me.

She is right. ^^^READ that and UNDERSTAND that ^^^ Rarely do WAS's give such valuable insight, usually they just cut and run and offer no explanations. She's given you a roadmap for your 180's. Now, do something about it.

Quote

Me I'm taking in all that you wrote and know you are an awesome woman and I have been working on myself.

ACTIONS not WORDS.

Quote

I never want you to feel insecure or scared.

Yet that is exactly the way she felt, are you not listening?

Quote

Our arguments to me were disagreements and then we moved on when we should gotten to the bottom of the issue and dealt with it better.

That is how YOU felt, not her. You need to start seeing things from her point of view, because right now I am and it doesn't paint you in a good light.

Quote

I want you to feel like my equal and secure and safe and always support you in your goals.

Prove it! And prove it through ACTIONS, not just more hollow words.

Quote

I may not have shown it but I'm always proud of what you do and have accomplished through an up hill struggle at work and admire your energy.

This is very passive/aggressive. You tear her down and then try to build her back up so you can tear her down again. She's done with that.

Quote

Her When I read what you wrote it shows me you still don't understand or believe what is happening.

SHE IS RIGHT, you really don't get it!

Quote

Did I blow it? Am I ��ed?

I'm not going to sugar coat it, you have a very long, difficult road ahead. You need to completely focus on 180's on the passive/aggressive behavior. You need to stop yourself from EVER raising your voice to her again and speaking down to her, whether your M is saved or not.

Quote

And I just went to my new therapist. She is so far awesome.

Glad to hear it, I hope you bring this up with her and get some feedback on how to address the P/A stuff.

How do I get to the front of the threads for some responses?

thx

Jimmy I have been guilty of all of the actions you previously mentioned with W saying similar things about being scared of me, the yelling, the badgering, the berating only to apologize and build back up, the frustrations. It has to come down to our temperaments to deal with situations better, to cope better, Be better commited consciously to our actions and 180's, better validations, better interactions.

Sadly I have had to completely and emotionally disconnect from my W to keep outbursts from reoccurring on my end. Right now it's not helping my sich, but not hurting it as well. But its helping me not to engage in anything emotional any longer. We don't even talk anymore. Not even good morning. Maybe a few words exchanged over S1 on a daily basis, but that's it. She is giving you valuable insight, now the question is how do we apply it to remediate our begaviors permenantly? Our temperaments have to change whether we ever R or not.. They have dealt with it for years, they probably felt as if they were walking on eggshells. Consistency man, consistency. I know its easier said than done when you are in the heat of the moment.

Thx. All

I did not raise my voice and yell yet that is the way she now takes it.
Which is still my fault.

I will bear down and do my best.

Originally Posted by JimmyRig

Thx. All

I did not raise my voice and yell yet that is the way she now takes it.
Which is still my fault.

I will bear down and do my best.

Everything is your fault. She could put her hand in a machine, cut it off, and she'd find a way to blame you. This is why detachment and GAL are so important. The less you are around her the less she can blame you for.

^^^^ What Steve said. She has to come to her own conclusions on her own volition. By you not being around as frequently is a win/win/win. You feel better by GALing. You are more positive and upbeat as a result. She doesn't experience the bad dynamic between the two of you. Over time and space she may question the validity of her own perception, because you are not feeding her monster. Or her negative perception of you. Gives you more time to conscientiously make more behavioral changes, and organically feel better with less reactivity. Make sense? More importantly prove you can change through your actions and not your words, and be consistent about it. You'll get there if you can allow yourself to step back from your sich, and be an observer.

Thx for the 12 x 12's I guess i really have been a jerk and pray that she will forgive me.

Thx for setting me straight.

JR

Any advice if I do get papers soon?

Thanks for the wake up call and kick in the arse !

Jimmy,

I haven't read your whole sitch, just the last 3 pages. You should be implementing the LRT, so that's my advice whether or not you get papers.

She's trying to beat it into your head that it's over. You need to accept that and act accordingly.

Don't ask her for help. Leave her alone, focus on your own healing IMO. You have to drop your guard and quit fighting with her. Hopefully with time, work, and getting a life you will drop the stuff between you two that is causing so much pain.

She may change her mind but you should prepare for the worst.