Hi Deja,
I've read some of your threads. The pain is palpable in your writings. I am really sorry. It is so, so hard. I can relate to your struggles of understanding things intellectually, however not being able to accept them emotionally. From reading here for the last few years, I believe that we all suffer to different degrees and the grief process can be longer for some. I think some of it is because we are wired differently and also we have had different childhood experiences and histories that allow/prevent us to deal with additional traumas. I also think that when we are in different stages of life, it can be harder to recover from these things. Getting a D bomb dropped on us at 25 without kids and a mortgage is quite different than being 50 and more settled, so to speak. I can see that you are really hard on yourself, and so I wanted to offer some encouragement.
I didn't start posting here until I started to piece/recover my M. After BD, I really struggled for a long time. I was devastated. I lost 30 pounds, couldn't sleep, and cried multiple times a day and night. Everything felt hard to do, even getting up and getting dressed in the morning. I was also dealing with other family problems simultaneously and had a history of some depression and anxiety (not properly diagnosed). People (and my IC) would often tell me how hard I was on myself for not "handling things better." Unfortunately, that didn't seem to help change my thinking or behaviors. It even made me feel worse about myself. I read a bit of that in you.
So I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. There are so many people here and more reading here (that will never post) that are struggling to cope with the same devastation. We never thought our life would be like this, right? We just assumed that one day things would settle down, we would have a career, a home and family, and that we could start thinking about a life of calm. I think the reality is tho, that most do not have that. We don't prepare for these life changes, and they just happen.
I am not close with my mom, but she had a major life change at a hard time. She had been with my step-father for 17 years and very much loved him. She had terrible migraines and he did everything for her. He didn't wake up one morning at the age of 61, yet hadn't had any known health problems. She wasn't working anymore and had relied on his income. She then learned that they didn't pay off their home and actually were in a reverse mortgage. So in her late 50s she lost it all. She fell into a terrible, and at times debilitating, depression for several years. ... Then one day she met a man in her bereavement group, who had lost his wife of 40 years. They became friends. Then they fell in love. It was the most unexpected time and place. And I can say with certainty that the love they shared was better on so many levels than she ever had had with my step-dad. There were important things missing in their M that she didn't see because she didn't want to. My step-dad loved her, but he wasn't the right man for her.
I am not a religious person, but I have a strong faith. I have faith that if we teach ourselves to believe that things will get better in time, then they will. Even in my darkest days, I was able to find a bit of this faith. In time, I know your sitch will improve. It doesn't have to be today or even next month. It is okay to grieve as long as you need to. In time, you will heal and you will find something or someone that is better for you. I 100% believe that.
Best,
Blu
Blu... thank you so much for dropping by and reading some of my thread. I have been reading all of your posts as I find them very inspiring and full of wisdom so I feel a bit like I’ve been visited by a DB rock star.
This board and the wonderful people on it have been a lifesaver for me. If I couldn’t come on here and write about all of my emotions and jumbled thoughts, I think I would have gone crazy by now. With every key stroke, I feel like I am getting that much closer to my goal. Even my goal is changing. Before it was all about getting my H back. Slowly, but surely, it is becoming all about getting me back so that when I find myself in another R in the future either with my H (miracles sometimes do happen) or someone else, I will be a stronger, wiser, and more confident DV - a woman who knows who she is and knows that as much as she wants a partner to share all of life’s ups and downs, she is not someone who NEEDS one. I was that person once...before I met my H. I had (still have) a good career, I was independent and owned my own home. I was happy and positive despite the fact that my father was dying at the time. All of these traits were what attracted my H in the first place. I don’t know how or why, but over the years I kind of lost that person. I became a mom who worried about things I never worried about before and I got caught up in the world of “shoulds” and “musts” and always felt like I never quite measured up... as a mom and as a wife. There are many things I would do differently if I had the chance but I cannot beat myself up for that anymore. As my good DB friend FS pointed out, I was doing the best I could at the time. HInd sight is always 20/20, isn’t it?
Today was a pretty good day. I went for a walk with my co-workers at lunch and I found myself really enjoying the time with them. I remember thinking, “in this moment, I am really okay”, and I know those moments will become hours and hours will become days, etc... I am getting there...step by step. Feeling really grateful to all of you for helping me get this far. (((HUGS)))
Had a strange day yesterday. My headache really ramped up at the end of my work day so I went home early. Before leaving the office, I texted my H that I was going home early and likely would be in my room so if he wanted to come help with the kids, he was welcome. I expected him to decline the offer but he texted back pretty quickly saying he was on his way and actually got there before I did. We talked for a few minutes before I headed off to my room and I noticed it was the first time in a long time that I didn't have that queasy, sick feeling being in his company. So maybe that's progress? Anyway, he had dinner with his mom and the kids, helped with some homework and then headed off at around 6:00 telling his mom he had a meeting and would try to come back. When she told me that, I knew that he would not be back. I'm also pretty sure he didn't have a meeting but whatever, it is his life. He still can't manage to be in our home for more than two hours. I don't know why. Guilt maybe? Maybe it's too familiar? Again...who knows?
This weekend is pretty much my first weekend without the kids when I will be at home. Fortunately, I have lots of things to do so I won't have to dwell on it too much. Trying to imagine what it would be like to only have them 50% of the time. It is unimaginable at this point. It seems so unfair that my H decided to blow up our lives without so much as a "Hey, DV6...we're in trouble here..." and now we all have to just accept it and go along with what he wants...at least that is how he sees it. I think the thing I am still bothered by is the mountain of lies I know he has been telling me for the past four years. Trying to replay things in my mind and wondering what memories are true and what ones are not. It is crazy-making, I know. If we sat down and I asked him to answer all of my questions truthfully, would he? Does he even know the difference between a truth and a lie at this point? He thinks that by moving away from all of the devastation he has caused and trying to be a good dad from here on out, he will somehow absolve himself of everything and not have to face up to his actions? Like he just gets a free pass? This stuff went on for four YEARS...not four months or four weeks. YEARS!!! How do I reconcile that? How does he? Did he ever really love me? Is he even capable of ever really loving someone? Am I just relegated to accepting status quo without ever having any answers? There is that sick feeling again...
DV6,
You need to stop yourself from running down those cheeseless tunnels. You will likely never get the answers you want, and you need to get to a place where you are ok with that. He is rewriting history, and probably was for a long time as he checked out on the relationship.
I remember quite well when I would get into my head and the thoughts would just cycle over and over again in an interminable loop that never led anywhere. It felt like I couldn't control or even slow down the thoughts. Learning how to break that cycle has been a huge relief and help in my progress. I still get thoughts or memories of the MR at times, but I simply let them go. Some people find visualization helpful - imagining the thoughts as balloons which you let go, or a rushing river that you observe come and go. Others find breathing techniques and mindfullness helpful. Simply taking 4 deep breathes, focusing on the inhale and exhale can bring your mind back to the present. Whatever it is, find something that works for you to cut off these recursive thoughts before they begin to metastasize.
Hang in there. You can do this!
Thank you Davide. I am not spending too much time going down the tunnels... at least not as much time as I was before.
I picked up my kids from school today and the first thing they said was that they didn’t want to go to dad’s. Great. What am I supposed to do about that? So I just told them that I understood it was a change and that sometimes things can’t be exactly the way you would like them to be. I told them I think it is important they have some time with their dad and that they could call me anytime they want if they miss me. I also told them not to worry about hurting mom and dad’s feelings and that we always want to know how they feel and encouraged them to talk to daddy too. I hope that was the right thing. Pretty hard to feel like you are doing the right thing when the situation itself is just so wrong.
I was home today when my H was here getting the kids ready to go. He seems so normal it is really irritating. Like he doesn’t have a care in the world. Moments of awkward silences that were never there before. I probably shouldn’t have but I asked my H where he was those 21/2 years he was having treatment. He said he was quite often at the hospital and then, of course, sidestepped the question and never really answered it. I guess I will never really know and even if he does tell me, it’s unlikely to be the whole truth anyway. Sigh... it is so hard to accept that someone I devoted so much of my life to is essentially a stranger. His mom feels that way and she gave birth to him. I wonder who REALLY knows him or if anyone really does. It is sad when you think about it in that way. To live your life with so many lies that you can’t let anyone REALLY know you. It must be lonely at the end of the day.
Had a bit of a cry when my kids left. It is difficult to let them go. I signed up to be a full-time mom so having my time with them scheduled is really difficult to accept.
All these family Christmas commercials are KILLING ME!!! I really just want to fast forward two months and be done with it. Three hours since my kids left with their dad... feels like three days. Trying really hard not to resent the sh#t our of him right now!!! I can’t believe this is my life.
Hey DejaVu6,
The holidays are hard,I’m sorry you are struggling right now.You have been an encouragement to me, and to others, I know sometimes the pain can be overwhelming, but tommorrow is another day. Please be kind to yourself as you would with a good friend. I do think it’s healthy to get angry too, it’s part of the healing process although it feels really shitty...the only way out is through..but you are still moving forward. I hope you can do some nice things for yourself this weekend....you deserve it.
Thanks Sansa. I was having a moment. I do have some good things to look forward to... a birthday party tomorrow and a Meet-Up hike on Sunday. Also wanted to find some time to put up some Christmas lights and finally buy that guitar I’ve been wanting to buy. Been spending some money lately... might as well while I have it...lol. For my next weekend without kids, I got two free nights at a casino/hotel in Washington so I’m going to do some Christmas shopping and get away for a couple days. Looking forward to it.
Angry at myself for letting my H get to me. I forgot to say that after he sidestepped my question, he said “I prefer to look forward to the future [instead of answering uncomfortable questions about the past].” I did exactly what I told myself I wasn’t going to do... I am just too impulsive sometimes. Anyway... I said “Of course you do. You want a free pass. Like nothing you did before even matters.” Ugh... not my best moment. I almost texted to apologize but then thought better of it. No...sometimes it is just okay to be human.
I was thinking a lot about what it is that I can’t get past and after much deliberating, I think I am angry most at my H because his “cover story” about why he was away all that time prevented me from acknowledging my own feelings. I was in survival mode all those years. I was desperately lonely. I gave myself many talking-tos... How dare I feel hard done by when my poor H is in a hospital going through painful treatments. So I shoved my feelings down...devoted myself to caring for our kids and supporting my H in everything he did... day in and day out. I loved him... I hated the way I was being treated but I thought it was his illness...not him. Had I known that it was HIM, I could have done something different. At the very least... I could have dealt with my own feelings. He knew it too. He knew I was suffering and he just walked away...day after day after day... So that’s my rant for the day. I just got “Co-Dependent No More” delivered today with a workbook. Gonna do some of that this weekend too.
Love and (((HUGS))) to you all.
I am just too impulsive sometimes. Anyway... I said “Of course you do. You want a free pass. Like nothing you did before even matters.” Ugh... not my best moment. I almost texted to apologize but then thought better of it. No...sometimes it is just okay to be human.
Hi ((DV6)), sorry to hear of your sitch.
Yes, it's okay to be human, in fact it's awesome. Live and learn... We can't learn if we don't make mistakes, right? Have your moments, and make them count. Don't Apologize.
I was thinking a lot about what it is that I can’t get past and after much deliberating, I think I am angry most at my H because his “cover story” about why he was away all that time prevented me from acknowledging my own feelings. I was in survival mode all those years. I was desperately lonely. I gave myself many talking-tos... How dare I feel hard done by when my poor H is in a hospital going through painful treatments. So I shoved my feelings down...devoted myself to caring for our kids and supporting my H in everything he did... day in and day out. I loved him... I hated the way I was being treated but I thought it was his illness...not him. Had I known that it was HIM, I could have done something different. At the very least... I could have dealt with my own feelings. He knew it too. He knew I was suffering and he just walked away...day after day after day... So that’s my rant for the day. I just got “Co-Dependent No More” delivered today with a workbook. Gonna do some of that this weekend too.
Love and (((HUGS))) to you all.
You felt like you were doing the right thing at the time so don't beat yourself up. It goes to show how twisted people can get and how callous they become. Good thing is you know now so that you can start to do something different.
This weekend is pretty much my first weekend without the kids when I will be at home. Fortunately, I have lots of things to do so I won't have to dwell on it too much. Trying to imagine what it would be like to only have them 50% of the time. It is unimaginable at this point.
I remember this. The thought of them being a family without me. I use to try and fill my time with things so I wouldn’t have to think about it, but once I was alone it would hit. I do not think about it anymore (as it turns out we do more “family” things then we ever did before). So, stop forecasting DJ. You don’t know what the future holds. Take it one day at a time. When the thoughts hit, acknowlege them, then move on. Enjoy your freedom. Use the time to rediscover you. As the infinitely wise Yoda says - “Do or do not. There is no try” (and yes, all my quotes are from Star Wars).
I picked up my kids from school today and the first thing they said was that they didn’t want to go to dad’s. Great. What am I supposed to do about that? So I just told them that I understood it was a change and that sometimes things can’t be exactly the way you would like them to be. I told them I think it is important they have some time with their dad and that they could call me anytime they want if they miss me. I also told them not to worry about hurting mom and dad’s feelings and that we always want to know how they feel and encouraged them to talk to daddy too. I hope that was the right thing. Pretty hard to feel like you are doing the right thing when the situation itself is just so wrong.
You handled it perfectly. As parents we have to put our own feelings (abondonment, rejection etc) aside and try to make things ok for our children. This is what it means to be a parent. Your kids will be the better for it.
I was home today when my H was here getting the kids ready to go. He seems so normal it is really irritating. Like he doesn’t have a care in the world. Moments of awkward silences that were never there before.
It is an act. He too is trying to keep things in an even keel for the kids. It is not to hurt you. What would the alternative have been - he was angry when he came to pick them up, he was sulky and cold or what if he was overly affectionate? Which version would not have hurt?? They all would have and they all would have sent you spinning. Keep going. One day you will realise that it doesn’t matter which version of him turns up at the door.
Had a bit of a cry when my kids left. It is difficult to let them go.
I know hun, but you are not letting them go. They are still your kids. You are still there mom. They will always love you because you are awesome. You might not be his W but you will always be there mom.
Thank you Adam and FS. FS...we are soooo alike!!! I use that Yoda quote all the time...especially when I have a teenage client in front of me telling me they will “try’ to follow my advice...lol. Most of my quotes, and my H’s, are from Star Wars. We are both big fans.
I was reading Happy Again’s posts that Cadet just put up. Wow. Honestly, my H could have written that. Maybe not the part about his W checking his phone bills and such... that was never me. But the other stuff for sure. I think that is how he sees me. I also think that he thinks too much has happened for him to ever return even IF he started to feel differently towards me. He would not believe there would come a time when I would not remind him of the past in order to have one over on him. Forgiveness does not come easy to him...if at all. He hangs onto things forever. It was really interesting to read Happy Again’s thought process... how sure he was at the beginning that he was doing the right thing and then slowly, but surely, doubts beginning to creep in. Ultimately, he reconciled with his wife who he literally almost hated at the beginning and became happy again. Love the happy ending!!!
Do you have the link to Happy’s posts? I can’t find them and would be interested in reading them.
Do the teenagers even know who Yoda is ?? My kids definitely don’t ... I have to explain all my references
They are on Active Threads. Should be in the first few pages. I just saw them today for the first time.
Trying to imagine what it would be like to only have them 50% of the time. It is unimaginable at this point. It seems so unfair that my H decided to blow up our lives without so much as a "Hey, DV6...we're in trouble here..." and now we all have to just accept it and go along with what he wants...at least that is how he sees it. I think the thing I am still bothered by is the mountain of lies I know he has been telling me for the past four years. Trying to replay things in my mind and wondering what memories are true and what ones are not. It is crazy-making, I know. If we sat down and I asked him to answer all of my questions truthfully, would he? Does he even know the difference between a truth and a lie at this point? He thinks that by moving away from all of the devastation he has caused and trying to be a good dad from here on out, he will somehow absolve himself of everything and not have to face up to his actions? Like he just gets a free pass? This stuff went on for four YEARS...not four months or four weeks. YEARS!!! How do I reconcile that? How does he? Did he ever really love me? Is he even capable of ever really loving someone? Am I just relegated to accepting status quo without ever having any answers? There is that sick feeling again...
Same for me the moment. I found out that my W inherited a lot of money 4 years ago and never told me. Bought a house 2 years ago and never told me. I've got 50/50 of the kids at the moment but have found out they will go to live with W. W tells lies constantly and plays at being a victim. People believe her. I have to see her soon for an exchange of the kids in a public place.
Wow... she is pretty good at hiding things. How could she buy a house without her H knowing. Bizarre. And this was four years ago? So she has been making plans for a very long time. Yikes. Sorry about the public exchange. Hard to believe that we can get to this place with someone we loved, isn’t it? (((David)))
Journaling...
Today is an okay day. I miss my kids but I’m keeping busy. Slept in today... 7 a.m. is sleeping in for me...lol. Made some coffee and then took my time getting out of bed. My sister came over and she and I went to the music store. I finally bought my guitar!!! It is beautiful. Spent a bit more than I wanted to but told myself I deserve it. Can’t wait to get started. After the music store, my sister and went to a birthday open house of a client of hers who is close to our age and really nice. Her husband gave us an impromptu concert. Wow. Hidden talents. The man sings like a professional tenor. Very cool. Started to feel a bit anxious after a couple of hours. All of the people there were married and most were with their spouses. Found myself wondering what it was about them that made their husbands want to stay with them. Stupid, I know. My H leaving is all about him. Still...part of me feels broken somehow. Anyway....I started to feel anxious so my sister and I left shortly after. Now I’m at home watching a movie with her and later on her H is coming over and the three of us and my MIL are going to have dinner together.
Tomorrow is my meet-up walk/hike. So far 14 people have signed up to go. Looking forward to meeting some new people and expanding my social circle.
More journaling... Got all the lights on our tree with the help of my sister and my BIL. Texted my D10 that the lights were up and I am waiting on her to decorate. She is so excited. She had to run because it was time to eat dinner. A big wave of sadness hit me... I am not supposed to be without my family on the weekends. I am so mad at my H in these moments. The four of us should be at home, decorating for Christmas and instead, I am here and they are there with him. I am not part of it. I guess you could say the same about him when they are with me but it is different. He chose this. I did not. I am not the one who ran away and took every step he could to destroy our marriage and did not take one step towards improving it. I was so desperately lonely and sad in those years but I never told him. I never told him because i didn’t want to burden him. I didn’t want him to feel any worse than he did battling his “illness”. And now he does this? It is still incomprehensible to me. I couldn’t treat my worst enemy like this let alone the person I loved enough to marry and have children with. And he just tosses it aside in search of this elusive happiness that he will never find as long as he continues to look for it outside of himself. Sigh... trying not to spiral here. Just really missing my family...my life. Tomorrow is another day. (((HUGS))) to you all. XO
((((DV6))))
Today is an okay day. I miss my kids but I’m keeping busy. Slept in today... 7 a.m. is sleeping in for me...lol. Made some coffee and then took my time getting out of bed.
it's 11pm right now and I kinda feel like making another cup of coffee for the night. W took S6 to BIL house for play date with his cousin. Thought crossed my mind that W would use this time to do whatever but that's wasted energy. I have my S10 here and all he does is play video games. We looked at movies to go watch but nothing good is on that he would like. There were at least two I would have wanted to see but oh no, he is too grown for them.
W musta felt I was thinking about her and FacedTime my older son, she is laying on mat at BIL with the two kids with her on the mattress playing, she was saying good night.
Got all the lights on our tree with the help of my sister and my BIL. Texted my D10 that the lights were up and I am waiting on her to decorate. She is so excited.
Cherish the times you have. You two will have so much fun. This year my two boys helped me put lights up and we had a good time. I remember it got cold and the little one was mad at his brother over something silly. S6 just lost both his front teeth so I'm looking forward to taking his new pix for Christmas postcards.
You really owe it to yourself to replace thoughts of him with something else, but I know that is not easy because it's not just him, it's the family. Wish there was a magic wand to wave and make it all go away or BOP him upside the head with it a couple times and knock some sense into him for you.
Have fun on the hike, go out there and meet them people.
Wow... she is pretty good at hiding things. How could she buy a house without her H knowing. Bizarre. And this was four years ago? So she has been making plans for a very long time. Yikes. Sorry about the public exchange. Hard to believe that we can get to this place with someone we loved, isn’t it? (((David)))
W inherited money 4 years ago and didn't tell me. I knew the house had been bought by her parents 2 years ago. They lied saying there was a massive loan on it. It turns out that they and W paid for it and have no loan on the house. I now know the plan was to keep that house for 2 years as her father said in a letter to someone when the house was bought. W left just short of that 2 years and moved into the house. W and her parents had it all planned for 2 years. I hadn't known. W started arguments over nothing and became very abusive whilst also telling me I was being paranoid and there was nothing wrong. Then W left and blamed me. I'm fortunate that I found out the truth by chance else I would still be blaming myself.
Wow. That is right up there with my H and his “treatments”. I just don’t know how someone can do that to a person they loved enough to marry and have a family with. Did things get a bit routine? Yes...absolutely. Before we moved, we were living pay cheque to pay cheque and spending more time in our cars than we were with each other. It was no way to live and neither of us were happy. The difference is that I blamed our circumstances and my H blamed me and his “feelings”.
I made the mistake of assuming my H had the same view of the situation as I did. This situation has taught me not to make assumptions about what is going on inside of people and to pay more attention to that inner voice that says something is wrong. There was a part of me that did not believe my H’s reasons for being absent but I said nothing. Once in awhile, I would ask a question about something that did not make sense but he always had a plausible answer and he looked so sincere, that I would just drop it. I thought that he likely did some treatment (which is where he got the idea) but most of the time, he was just hiding. Reading Happy Again’s thread was eye opening. Other than the wife being “angry” and a “bully” to him [I am definitely not that], my H could have written that. I know he felt controlled by me and overlooked. I handled everything...money, schedules, etc... I did this because those kinds of things are what I do well. My H likes to do his thing, work on his hobbies, etc... he does not have much space in his brain for bills, appointments, etc... so I became the CEO of the family and I think he probably felt much like an employee as opposed to an equal partner. The thing is... I hated having to do all that. I didn’t want an employee... I wanted a partner. But my H is a bit ADHD and whenever I would put him in charge of something, it was always a 50/50 proposition that it would get done. Often, he would just do something last minute or come to me last minute for help cause he had forgotten or something else had gone wrong. And I would lose when that happened because my H would feel bad but then also feel some resentment towards me. In a nut shell, he depended on me to do things in our marriage that he would later resent. It was a no-win situation.
I am nervous about the New Year. I am pretty sure that my H is going to want 50/50 custody of our children. I am not going to agree to it so I anticipate that our R is going to go downhill afterwards. What my H doesn’t realize is that for the 3 1/2 years that he was avoiding and running away from me, he was doing the same thing with our kids. If he saw them during the week, it was never for more than an hour and sometimes they would go days without seeing him. Weekends he saw them a bit more but even then, he was often out running “errands” without them (usually) and would always be gone before dinner. So my kids got really used to having a very part-time dad and a full-time mom. I’m the one who was there every day. My MIL as well. She, in essence, took over my H’s job. She picked them up from school, she helped them with homework, and she would be the one making dinner if I couldn’t make it home in time to do it myself. Now my kids are turning 11 in a couple of weeks and by the time all of this goes to court (assuming we get there), they will be 12. They are very clear. They do not want to live with their dad. They love him and they like spending time with him but they don’t miss him a lot when he is gone. They are used to it. They want to live in their home with their mom, grandmother and dog. They like their rooms and their neighbourhood. I have not influenced them in any way. They have both told me this and that two weekends a month is enough. If their minds were to change later on in life and they decided they wanted to live with dad or spend more time with him, I would, of course, be flexible. Even during the week, I am okay if my H wants to come by and see them. But he doesn’t. And he rarely contacts them when he isn’t here. He has been doing that more lately but that only started after I pointed it out to him. Even all those times that he was away getting “treatment”, he would rarely contact us. He never called to say goodnight to them. Sometimes I would text him. If he got back to me, it would usually take awhile and he would always tell me an excuse like “sorry...I was sleeping”. Often his phone would be on DND or off. Some weekends he would tell me that they were intensifying his treatment and that he would come home for an hour to see the kids if I wanted him to. As I thought he was an hour and a half drive away, I would usually tell him not to bother as I didn’t want him having to drive that much. We did this for 2 1/2 years and also the seven months before BD. My H says he loves our kids and I believe him. However, he loved his “freedom” more for all those years and his kids came second...always. So the 50/50 thing is something he has not earned and he does not deserve. The kids deserve to be where they want to be and to not have to travel back and forth and have “two lives”, the way my H did. If he had come to me to tell me we were in trouble in the very beginning and we had worked on it and still got to this point, I would be much more open to the idea. But he didn’t. He abandoned us under the guise of being too ill to be at home. As far as I am concerned, he made his bed and now he has to lie in it.
Anyway... that’s my rant for the morning. Time to get going on my day. Lots planned.
DV6, Can relate somewhat.
W is a federal employee and would travel a ton for work. Still plans to once she is done with maternity leave.
Earlier on in our MR, she would travel and admittedly I would be mad / resentful towards her--because I would be a single dad for at the time only S who was a toddler, and I was adjusting to new career as a teacher.
Eventually, anger / resentment faded on my part, and I've come more to accept it.
W will be spending 3 months in VA (on military base) for training for promotion starting next Sept.
She will miss: Xmas, Thanksgiving, YS 1st bday, OS 7th bday, as well as anniversary, Halloween, St. Nicholas Day.
I've thought with her talk of separation that 'she srsly expects me to be at her beck-and-call so she can travel, if she decides she wants out? Uh-huh sure.' Also have thought that if it ever gets to D, and then custody / visitation, then maybe her travel could work against her. Either she cuts back on that significantly, or I could get more custody / visitation, because judge would look at that. Maybe. Idk. Obviously ask a lawyer, but I hope it never gets that far. But I have thought about it.
DJ -
Some practical advice ... get your facts in order then go speak to a lawyer.
1. Start putting together a timeline. Go back through your texts / emails.
2. Do you know where he was those four years? Was he renting somewhere (if he was, then you might have a case that he actually abandoned the family home long before you found out)
3. How often was he home vs how often was he away
4. If he were to have the girls 50% how would this work. Can he even logistically, practically and financially support 50% custody? think of reasons why he can't. List them down.
Lastly, what sort of custody arrangements would you be happy with? You need to find a compromise that you can live with. You can't start negotiations without knowing what you want.
None of this means you won't reconcile. However, it will give you a focus and hopefully get you to a place where, once you know the facts and you know what you are willing to live with, the fear won't be so overwhelming.
Also, don't tell him you've done any of this. This is for you and for you only. If it goes down that road, then at least you will be prepared.
Thanks FS. As soon as I get through the holidays... it’s on my ToDo list for sure. I don’t really have a record of exact days but my MIL are very clear that we would go days without seeing him and when we did, it was very briefly.
My H was over today briefly. It still really bothers me to see him. He looks like my H, he talks like my H, he smiles like my H... it would be so easy to forget...but I can’t and neither can he because he can’t seem to stay in my presence for longer than 15 minutes. There are many reasons for that, I’m sure. Even though he has obviously been a total a$$ for years, I miss the person I thought he was... my partner, my friend, my M2B (we used to say that about each other). I don’t know why I can’t get it through my thick skull that he is not that person and probably never was. He was such a good liar...probably even convinced himself. He says he is going to start going to counselling. No idea why. Not sure he would even be honest with a counsellor anyway.
Kids are back home. It was a long two days without them. We had some fun tonight. Decorated our Christmas tree, made some cinnamon buns, did homework and baked some banana bread. Well, I did the last one but they encouraged me...lol. I met with my hiking group. It was nice to get out with people. I ended up walking with a woman who is 57 and has been separated for three years. Sounds like things are before the courts. She just started dating someone...10 years younger apparently. Not sure I want to venture down that road. I don’t have a lot of trust in men these days. My H has really made me question my ability to judge a person’s character. He had me fooled for a very long time.
DejaVu,
Just catching up, wow
As a mom of Trios I feel your pain.
I am going on 1yr and 8 months and I still have my breakdowns
I have also never been away from our kids. Since I adopted them I been there.
Therapist has help. I was told when is W week to turn TV on downstairs if
I am in my room so it sounds like they are downstairs, let me tell you this help me
a little. My d10 loves to be in room and listen to music I have now also turn her
Music enough as if d10 is home.
I try anything that will help me. Am ok and adjusting without W.
What am not adjusting is my kids not being with Me
As I told the court, how is this fair. W left us, abandoned kids and then
When I took W to court to get everything in paper so kids be together I lose
My 50% so W doesn't have to pay child support.
Unfortunately the system [censored]. It simply does.
My kids has also said they hate W house. Again by court
W weekend they must go. Even if kids are crying they hate it over their.
It is sad to see kids hurt. Because of W my kids are mentally drained
They simply are so tired.
Example I pick up yesterday the kids where so tired they fell asleep
By 6pm is like they couldn't keep their eyes open. As I rechecked on kids.
They where snoring as if they haven't slept in days.
I wanted to call W and say wth happened but I also know unfortunately
What happens in W house is W rules...
Stay strong DejaVu
Thank you Marina. I’m so sorry about your sitch with your W and about your kids’ unhappiness. They really are the big losers in all of this. I am grateful that when my kids are with my H, they are well taken care of and he pays a lot of attention to them. They were missing that attention before so it is good for them...and for him. He knows he has screwed up many of his relationships and potentially many more if people were to find out what he has been doing for the last four years. But his relationship with his kids is something he can preserve and improve upon. I am glad for that even though I am sad that it has to be at my expense... that full-time mom becomes less than that...and I have no choice in the matter. It will take a very long time for me to truly forgive my H for that and for robbing our children of the experience of growing up in a two-parent home. But as long as he is “happy”. I struggle with that. Not sure how someone can be happy when they are responsible for so much devastation. But my H is an expert liar and I’m sure he lies to himself as easily as he lies to everyone else. It must be a really lonely existance to not have anyone in your life who truly knows you and to have to keep everyone at arm’s length. I feel for him in that regard. He is missing out.
Hi DV,
Thank you for the rock star complement. I promise I am far from that! Someone here once referred to me as a celebrity and my initial thought was, "Oh boy, I better by very careful about what advice I give, because people are really paying attention!" ... It is much easier to give advice to others than post about my own sitch. Some things have come up recently with my H and I have been triggered, seen his old (same) NG behaviors, and in the moment I feel so upset that I start to question why I ever took him back! Grrrh! He wants to go back to MC, but I refuse at this point. My H is back, but I am not them best DBer myself.
I wanted to add something about custody and hopefully ease some of the anxiety. During my separation with H, he stayed at his parents large home and we had the kids 50-50. School evenings he was at our house with them and I would stay out after work, and then on weekends he took them to his parents. Instead of allowing myself to worry or miss them, I used the time to GAL and nurture my other Rs. After all, even tho we parented differently, he was still their dad and it was their time. I recognize now how fortunate I was that it worked out this well. I also happen to have an H that is an involved parent, and so much that being a dad is his primary identity. Perhaps I chose him because my dad growing up was like that too: he was a NG that spoiled us kids, put us first, and mostly he gave up his own life to be a "good dad." Unfortunately for my dad (and my H at times), kids can lose respect for the parent when this happens. .... However, that was not the case at all with the father of my oldest D, and going through the court system was a total nightmare for me. I am not sure this story will help, but I will share it, as I do tend to believe these things (the good and the bad custody sitch) shake out as they should in time and the kids will benefit either way. They benefit if they have at least one strong person (parent) that will help them.
So here is my story about D20. My heart.
My oldest D (now 20) had a father who was very troubled. I left him when she was 1 (I was 21 and had known him from HS). He still fought me in court for custody. I often felt like it was more punitive towards me for leaving him than because he really wanted time with her. He would cancel visitations last minute, he would leave her with other people, he refused to pay support, and he would stir up drama with me all the time (I love you, I hate you, etc). It seems that all he had to do was walk into court with his head hung low and say how much he loved our D and just wanted to see her more (poor me, wah wah wah), and then they gave it to him. Every. Time. He would even admit that he cancelled visits, didn't take the required classes, and he would yell in front of the mediator. He still got what he asked for. It blew my mind! He would then cancel and go several weeks without even seeing her. Well eventually he got a girlfriend, seemed more stable, and started following through on his time with her. It was every other weekends and holidays by that point.
While he had the GF, he saw D fairly regularly. It was hard to let her go and I always worried they may not be taking good care of her. He was starting to show signs of mental illness and stories didn't add up. She would come back from her weekends worn out and sometimes filthy or ill. Maybe I should have taken him back to court but I didn't. I wanted her to know who he was and for them to build their own R, even if not ideal, and I didn't want to be blamed for taking it away. When she was 10 he started to have some bad episodes and fell off the map. We suspected he either went to jail or was hospitalized and his GF left him at that point. After some concerning calls and emails from him (sounding psychotic and dissociated) over a few months, he just stopped communicating altogether. She didn't see him for 10 years. We learned he died this year. I have come to learn he was bipolar, schizophrenic and had psychotic episodes. The silver lining is that now she is able to rekindle some Rs with his family, as they also stayed away from us. I think they were either ashamed or wanting to protect him, but my D had lost them all.
That was seemingly off topic and an extreme example, I know. But the moral of my story is that in the end, it worked out as it should have. When he was able to and willing, he saw her and they had a decent R. When he wasn't able to, he didn't, or she formed her own view of him. We helped her as best we could with the trauma and we had to have many conversations about why he did/said things and why he disappeared. Had he been more stable and seen her more (and continuously) that would have been a bigger inconvenience for us, but perhaps they could have had a better R. I wanted full custody and I wanted to raise her. I had a lot of worries about him. On the flip side, I am glad for the time that they did have. She still remembers him and her time with him and she understands now that he struggled with mental illness and that is why he was the way he was. She has her own feelings and opinions about him and their R. I am glad I gave up the control or she would have been left with a giant hole.
Crazy as it sounds, I sometimes wish that they had had even more time together. He was a complete mess, but he was still her dad and it was her right to know him as best she could (as long as she was safe). When she would come home and talk about her visits, I would try my best to listen and validate. We then talked about why our families were different, etc. We had several therapists help over the years. She is 20 now and she is quite well adjusted all things considering. She has had her own hardships, including her own mental health issues and having to go away to therapeutic boarding school in HS. In the last 2 years she has maintained several healthy Rs, a good job, moved out, and she is navigating what career she wants to pursue. She dreams of being a flight attendant. I know she is going to be just fine, despite the chaos with her dad. I know that because as long as I am alive, I will make sure she has what she needs and I will support her in navigating the rough roads. It only takes one person to make a positive difference! We all want to protect our kids, but instead of shielding them from adversity, sometimes the best thing we can do is help them learn how to handle it better.
Blu
Thank you Blu. Sorry to hear about your troubles with your H. He sounds like a good man, flawed as we all are, but a good man nonetheless. And, btw, you are still a rock star to me.
I hear what you are saying about custody. I think things will work out in the end just as you said. My h gets off work 2 hours before me most days so would be totally fine with him coming over to spend time with them. I just know they want to live in their home and in their neighbourhood. I am hoping we can come to an agreement on support. I am not an unreasonable person. I just need time to recover a little bit. As you are well aware, when someone who you loved and trusted leaves you in this manner, it is very difficult to come to terms with it. I was married before... very different situation, very different level of respect and honesty. We dissolved our marriage with love...knowing that we were ultimately heading in different directions. The one thing about my first H that I struggled with is that I never felt like he loved me in the way that I thought a husband should. I resolved to never go down that road again unless I was SURE the other person loved me in that way. My first H was a friend for a long time and we grew to love each other so it is not a surprise that we parted as friends. My relationship with my current H, however, was very different. There were sparks. It was an instant connection. We were crazy about each other from the second we met. That kind of intensity was impossible to maintain over time. I knew that. I’m not sure my H did.
Another thing I have come to realize about my H is that he has never really stood on his own two feet the way I have. He never really left home. His mom always lived with him even though she always had her own suite in the home. But she was always there to rescue him if he screwed up. When he got married the first time, his W moved in and she took over where his mom left off. She “took charge” (also her strength) and took over all of the finances, etc... He very much felt controlled by her and told me that he always felt like she looked down on him. When they divorced, she moved out and he went back to paying his mom a small rent but never any other major bills. When he and I got together, I moved in as well (I had to leave my area) and I naturally took over where his first W left off. My H, quite frankly, had too many things going on to worry about things like expenses and bills, etc... But... I think he started to resent my role even though he encouraged it. So...fast forward 13 years and here we are again only this time he is the one who moved out. Honestly, I think him living on his own and being responsible for himself is not a bad thing... in a way, it seems like he is trying to live the life he should have lived in his 20s. His pattern would be to find another woman to partner with. I hope he avoids doing that and spends some time working on himself first. But...that is not for me to decide. What will be will be.
I had a nice talk with a social worker I know today. She says she knows several couples who were in relationships with not a lot wrong but ended up divorced because one of the partners decided they weren’t happy and that happiness could be found “out there”. I asked her how many found what they were looking for. She was quite confident that most of them figured out that the grass was not necessarily greener on the other side and they just traded one set of problems for another set of problems. Like I told my H, and he laughed, “you can’t divorce yourself.”
Anyway...not a bad day today. I have my pool league tonight and my H is coming over to hang with the kids. They are seeing him way more than they have in the last four years so I guess that is a good thing. So happy you visited my thread again Blu. You are always a welcome visitor. (((HUGS)))
Hey DV6!
I had a nice talk with a social worker I know today. She says she knows several couples who were in relationships with not a lot wrong but ended up divorced because one of the partners decided they weren’t happy and that happiness could be found “out there”. I asked her how many found what they were looking for. She was quite confident that most of them figured out that the grass was not necessarily greener on the other side and they just traded one set of problems for another set of problems. Like I told my H, and he laughed, “you can’t divorce yourself.”
I loved this section. It really spoke to me.
I think this is the case for a number if not the majority of the cases here. If your spouse or you are looking anywhere outside of yourself for happiness you are destined to fail. It is really just a failure to take responsibility for your own life. I say that having learned the lesson the hard way since I fell into that trap myself. Relationships help complement and fill out our lives, but can't make up for a shaky foundation of poor self-esteem or self-sufficiency.
Keep up the GALing, and let us know how the pool playing is going!
I definitely know that is part of my W problem. Not happy with herself, expecting someone or something to make her happy. Also, a really bad case of GIGS. No serious problems in the MR, just standard stuff all couples typically work through.
This problem your social worker friend is seeing is something I am reading and hearing about a lot from the psychology field as will as from religious people. Maybe it's a symptom of a larger societal problem.
I think society’s view of marriage and divorce overall has changed sustaintially over the last 30 years. Lots of reasons for that. Women becoming more and more independent and wanting it all (career, family, etc...). The blurring of gender roles so that both spouses are equally responsible, at least theoretically, for keeping the home, earning money, raising kids, etc... I’m all for this except that it has definitely changed people’s commitment to work through a marriage when problems inevitably surface. The focus on “happiness” and this idea that there is such a thing as a perfect marriage or perfect love and that it should just be that way without any effort. This attitude has made separation and divorce, for some, option number one as opposed to a last resort. As well, with the advent of the smart phone and dating apps, one can find a “replacement” for a spouse simply by swiping right. We live in an instant gratification, disposable society. Something not working quite right, don’t bother trying to fix it - just throw it out and get a new one. Nothing is sacred anymore. A “me first” approach to life is not only accepted, it is actually encouraged. As long as you are doing what makes you happy, any amount of wreckage that you leave behind you is justifiable.
My apologies to those of you who are in same-sex marriages. I am, of course, speaking in generalities and do not mean to offend with my reference to gender norms.
DV6, I wrote a lengthy response on the upside-down gender roles in our society and the effect it has had on marraige to a couple of newbies a few months ago. We had a slew of new LBSs that were either bread-winning Ws, or SAHHs, and I felt it important to point out that those kinds of arrangements buck against biology. Whether people like it or think it is PC or not, women have the babies........not men. There is a lot to imply from that dynamic. We are mammals, and in the mammal world the mother provides the nurture, care, and sustenance (milk) for the young. We aren't birds where either parent can eat bugs and worms, partially digest them, and then cough them up into the mouth of the young.
When we switch roles it can cause a lot of problems, and MRs suffer for it. I personally know of several D'd couples today that allowed these roles to get mixed up. Guess what, either the bread-winning W remained single after the D, or they got into more traditional marriages with the H as the bread-winner. It is hard to change that because, well, biology.
Steve,
I wonder if this is also deep at the root of my sitch.
W out-earns me (not by a ton, but she earns more), and works in a more male-dominated field, whereas I work in a primarily female-dominated field.
I was also a SAHD for our first few months out on the West Coast, but that was over 5 years ago.
Journaling... Had a great night!!! Went to a fundraiser for a women’s business networking group. Ended up sitting at a table with a woman who had just joined. I chatted with her most of the night. She is my age, has a great personality, is single and dating and had a bad break-up three years ago. I told her that my H had moved out a couple of months ago. I need to definitely keep her around. She is amazing for my ego. She was almost yelling at me...lol. “You are going to do fantastic DV6. You are gorgeous! You are smart! You have a fantastic personality. You H is an idiot. He is going to figure that out at some point and you are going to have moved on. If he doesn’t know how awesome you are, screw ‘em!! His loss!” She told me that 50 is the new 30 and I’m not going to have a problem finding someone else. I’m not ready for that at all but it is nice to hear it from someone who is “in the market”, so to speak. I said I thought my H would probably find someone pretty easily and she laughed. She says there are a lot of women out there looking to be taken care of with not a lot of money and kids, etc... She said women like me are not common. She said my biggest problem is that a lot of men are going to be intimidated by me. Me?!? Hmmm... that’s an interesting idea. Anyway... I had a fun night and left feeling like I had taken another step forward. Not sad at all tonight. Going to sleep tonight with a smile on my face.
Oh yeah, that was a good GAL girl. Just believe nothing that they say...;)
That’s the attitude DV, keep it there!
That sounds like a fantastic night DV and your new friend sounds wonderful.
Woke up smiling so today is going to be a good day. Last night was exactly what I needed. Talking with my new friend (she only lives a 2 minute drive from me!!) and seeing how well she is doing really helped me. She didn’t say anything that I haven’t heard before but somehow it really sunk in last night. I am a good person. I bring a lot of great things to the table. Just because my H was too screwed up to recognize that and make an effort, doesn’t have anything to do with me and my worth. It’s his problem and I know, without a doubt, that once he starts to get a handle on himself and he looks at the situation with a clearer mind, he will see where he screwed up and he will have regrets. Whether they will be enough to want to do the work, somehow I doubt it. He would really have to become a different person and I’m not sure he has it in him. Oddly, I am grateful that I am going through this pain now. I think my H has way more painful path ahead of him than I do, truth be told. I didn’t do this. I have nothing to regret. I did the best I could and at the end, I did not have any choice in the matter. Onwards and upwards.
I love these updates DV6! It is great to have a friend and confidante in this process. Keep up the GAL!
Don't have the expectation that he will "get a handle on himself", because if he doesn't and you are expecting him to then you will be left in anger.
It's amazing how one moment can totally change your mindset and help you remember that you a person of value. Don't ever forget that you are worth a lot! Use that attitude to fuel your little interactions and take care of yourself.
“You are going to do fantastic DV6. You are gorgeous! You are smart! You have a fantastic personality. You H is an idiot. He is going to figure that out at some point and you are going to have moved on.
100% correct! Your sitch is more about whatever he is going through than anything to do with you.
I said I thought my H would probably find someone pretty easily and she laughed.
He probably will, but he will soon find out she's not you and probably not one tenth of you. Then he'll look for someone else, and someone else. Eventually he will figure out the best woman for him is the one he dumped. He may be too "proud" to ever admit that, but even if he does you will probably have moved on and the tables will be turned- you will see him as pathetic and needy and unattractive.
She says there are a lot of women out there looking to be taken care of with not a lot of money and kids, etc... She said women like me are not common.
I was 54 when I started hitting the dating sites and my biggest issue with women my age was that they were extremely cynical and had trust issues to the point that they didn't even trust someone enough to meet. They just wanted to email or text endlessly. That was why I ended up dating younger women. The younger women were very eager to meet ASAP and were so tired of getting treated like crap by "men" their age. Having someone help with their coat and open doors for them and help them into their seat and pay for the meal was mind-blowing to them. Anyway, I know it's hard to make yourself "available" after what you've been through but if you do then you will meet someone great I'm sure. I don't think you're ready for that any time soon but when you are, don't hold back!
She didn’t say anything that I haven’t heard before but somehow it really sunk in last night.
Sometimes you have to be in the right place to hear these things. At the start, a lot of people said I was going to be fine. That he was crazy for leaving me. My boss at the time (I've since switched jobs) said to me one night that he '[can't] imagine anyone ever leaving [me]' (and he didn't say this in a creepy way). It all fell on deaf ears. My H had done an excellent job of destroying me so, in the same way he wasn't able to hear anything that went against his belief that we were miserable and had been miserable for a long time, I wasn't willing to hear when people said "you're going to get through this". I think you and I are both getting there DV.
I do too FS. My H did an excellent job of destroying me as well but ultimately, he did not succeed. When this all started, I remember I was so anxious all of the time. At work, it felt like I was just consumed with the thought of my H leaving me and felt like I was almost walking around with a sign over my head..."terrible marriage", "broken person", "bad wife", etc... All of my worst thoughts were just being broadcast 24/7. I've never been one to "lose it" so to speak. I didn't take any days off... just pushed through it. Haven't ever had any panic attacks but have felt on the verge of having one all the time since this first started. I realized today that while I still think of my H quite often, I am not panicky the way I was before. I still get some anxiety but it is not all-consuming and it is not accompanied by waves of despairing levels of sadness. When I have a client in front of me, I am with that client. I am getting caught up on my paperwork and laughing again. So I know I am getting there in spite of myself. The hits are still going to come but I am feeling more and more prepared for them as time goes on.
Sigh...5:20 a.m. and I’m awake. Finding myself doing a lot of thinking about the future which always makes me anxious. Thinking about the splitting of our finances and assets and how complicated it is going to get. My H has no idea how difficult this is going to be...and costly. Everything we worked for...means nothing to him now. How he can be “happy” under these circumstances is beyond me. I could never give up and walk away from my husband and kids without knowing I did absolutely everything in my power to save my marriage. Does he really think he did that? He says he “tried” but he literally ignored us and ran away for four years. How is that trying? He has to seriously rewrite history to the point of being delusional to think that. The lies he had to tell himself to justify his actions... no wonder he hated being around me. I was always so supportive of him because I thought he was ill. I put my own needs aside and shoved down any negative feelings I had about being “abandoned” and resolved to just get through it. It was an awful time for me and he knew it. And then we moved to our “dream home” and even though he was around more for the first few months, the lies were still between us and prevented us from renewing our relationship. How could he truly “try” without telling me what he had been doing for the previous three years? Every time he looked at me, he would have been reminded of his deception. You can’t love someone who reminds you of all of the worst parts of yourself. So now he wants to walk away and reinvent himself. He told me he is trying to be the best person he can be. I think that is probably true. It is way easier to walk away and try to reinvent yourself with people who don’t know you than it is to “do the work” and repair the relationships you have damaged.
Journaling...
Just got back from a doctor's appointment. She's started me on an antidepressant/anti-anxiety medication. I have resisted taking medication because I know my depression and anxiety is situational BUT I feel like I just need something to boost me up a couple of levels to go along with all of the things I'm already doing. I am tired of the roller coaster so if medication can make the ride a little less "thrilling", I'm all for it. Takes about two to three weeks for any effect to be felt so I will reserve judgment until then.
Hello DV6
Just catching up on your situation over the last week.
I see you are turning a corner and feel less stressful - awesome. You knew you would get there, it just takes time.
I hope the medication can reduce the height, depth, and frequency of those highs and lows on your rollercoaster.
A lot of anxiety comes from reading into the unknown future. I agree with FlySolo, espically regarding the finances and custody. Getting a timeline of events, seeing what 50/50 custody would mean to H. Her list is good.
I would add to listing all the reasons he can’t handle custody, list all the reasons he can.
Get an accurate picture of your situation and see a lawyer. You will then have information based on sound, grounded, and well thought out reason. Don’t worry a L will keep feelings out of this and stick to facts, numbers, best interest of kids, and what the law requires. (Hmmm that probably isn’t all that comforting, someday it will be)
This process it is necessary. Seeing the possible financial implications and custody arrangements will reduce the anxiety, by making it real. It is then you can plan and control your response to this.
You are doing really well DV. It may not seem like it to you, but you have made significant progress.
Keep moving forward girl.
DnJ
Thanks DnJ. Really appreciate you stopping by and, as always, offering such sound advice. I had a good night last night. I came home and prepared to sit on my couch to watch a bit of tv and then recalled that it was the night of my staff party at a local pub. My first instinct was to stay home but decided to make myself go. So I got dressed up and out I went. It was fun!! Met some people I hadn’t met before including one woman whose H suddenly packed all his things and moved out three weeks ago...moving truck and everything...while she was at work...after thirteen years of marriage. She also said she shouldn’t have been surprised. She is his third wife and apparently he left his first two marriages the same way. Like I said... you can’t divorce yourself. Anyway...she said she spent the first couple of weeks crying and was basically a puddle on the floor. Then she said she realized that she is worth more than that and decided she doesn’t need to be with anyone who doesn’t recognize her worth and want to be with her. Her H has really escalated things as she has already been contacted by his lawyer. Crazy. I am grateful my H’s timeline isn’t quite so condensed...gives me time to adjust. She told me to call her anytime. She says she has lots of supportive friends but they don’t really get it. I got the impression that she talks a really good game but she is still struggling. He sounds like a really a$$ with a drinking problem so not exactly a catch but it has only been three weeks and they were together 13 years. There is no rushing your recovery from that kind of a shock. It takes time...
Took my first pill this morning. I’m actually feeling pretty good these days but I know that tough times are ahead so I have decided to take the meds temporarily as more of a precautionary measure.
And relax DV, you are doing well. Keep DB.
Just relax, take it easy. Remember it’s a marathon.
DV6,
It's great that you pushed yourself to go out. Actually getting out the door is often the hardest step. If you keep taking that first step I think you will find that it opens up all kinds of possibilities. It's so great to have people to talk to who can relate to your sitch. Helping her out through her situation might help you feel better about your own or gain some perspective. I know that I have learned much from reading all of the sitches here. The biggest lesson is that we are not alone in this.
I hope the meds work out for you. Even if they are only temporary they might help ease the anxiety in this holiday season. Good on you for being willing to take that step.
Big hugs to you!
I came home and prepared to sit on my couch to watch a bit of tv and then recalled that it was the night of my staff party at a local pub. My first instinct was to stay home but decided to make myself go. So I got dressed up and out I went. It was fun!!
It is sometimes hard to drag ourselves out - I still say no to many things these days. The TV and the sofa seems a much better option sometimes
. When D12 was first born someone said to make sure I planned something to do every single day. That was the best advice anyone gave me because they knew I seriously ran the risk of still being in my PJ's at 2:00pm, loving the bundle in my arms, but at the same time feeling very sorry for myself. Same advice applies here I think.
Took my first pill this morning. I’m actually feeling pretty good these days but I know that tough times are ahead so I have decided to take the meds temporarily as more of a precautionary measure.
I hope they help. Time is an excellent healer, but sometimes we need something just to get us through the really tough times. I would still recommend mindful meditation. This worked better for me than the anti-depressants (I was prescribed them immediately after BD because I couldn't sleep and I wasn't eating).
How could he truly “try” without telling me what he had been doing for the previous three years? Every time he looked at me, he would have been reminded of his deception. You can’t love someone who reminds you of all of the worst parts of yourself. So now he wants to walk away and reinvent himself.
You are still looking for answers. Sometimes there are no answers. They are just unhappy and they need a reason to be unhappy. Let him finish his journey. You are doing great though. I hear the happiness in your posts when you talk about the people you've met. Two new friends in as many days. At the moment the things that bond you are your sitch's. Eventually, you will make new memories and the things that bond you will be those memories.
He told me he is trying to be the best person he can be. I think that is probably true. It is way easier to walk away and try to reinvent yourself with people who don’t know you than it is to “do the work” and repair the relationships you have damaged.
He is a good man. He is finally (in his head) trying to do the right thing. He is on a particular trajectory and he thinks he should keep to that trajectory (back to Davide's "should" concept) because he has already ripped the band aid, caused so much hurt to you and your children, that going back now unless he is absolutely sure that it will work, because anything less would be causing more hurt.
Let him walk his journey. You walk yours. They may merge one day but it is not that day today.
Ahh...FS...you are too kind. My H WANTS to be a good man. He has not been that for a long time. My MIL and I had dinner tonight and we were both kind of recalling the last few years. Honestly...even when my H wasn’t “sick”, he was not a great husband. Since the kids were born, he slowly but surely stopped seeing me as his wife and partner and really only saw me as a mother. He had a lot of friends where we used to live. Most of them have never met me. He didn’t include me in any of his activities unless he was performing somewhere and wanted an audience. He did not take much of an interest in my life or my friends. He came to watch me play pool only once. Ironically, last November. On weekends, if he was home, he would bundle the kids up and have them out the door before I even had a chance to decide if I wanted to go with them. He would tell me he was giving me a “break” but my “break” consisted of me doing housework and him going out to visit his friends with the kids. Pretty much all of his friends have met our kids... I am just the person they know gave birth to them - most of his friends would not be able to put a face to my name. Honestly...I put up with so much. I was STARVED for affection from him. My H very deliberately disconnected from me and pretended it was an illness that was responsible so I couldn’t get upset about it. So a good man??? He has a lot of work to do to make it into that category.
I do agree with your assessment though about not going back. I saw him wrestle with that early on when this was all discovered. He was conflicted...he knew he screwed up... but he felt like the hard part was over so he just needed to keep going. I think he also feels like he has burned a lot of bridges that he doesn’t think he can repair. He could but he doesn’t believe that. I feel bad about his R with his mom. It has suffered significantly and not because she has “picked a side” but because he lied to her for as long as he lied to me and he basically gave up his role as dad to her. She thought she was helping her poor sick son and in reality, she was being used in the same way I was being used. That is tough for a mother to get over and he hasn’t even had the courage to talk to her about it. He is too scared to hear what she has to say, I think. He’s probably just hoping it will all blow over and things will just eventually go back to normal. That’s the way things work with his dad. The problem is... he has a superficial relationship with his dad and he hates that. He didn’t have that with his mom but he does now. She has done everything for him and any time she has asked him for something, he is annoyed and irritated by her. So...good man??? LIke I said...he has a lot of work to do.
You are right about the questions too. I have a ton. I also know I will never get the answers to most of them. My H is trying to move forward by not looking back. He doesn’t want us to know the extent of his lies so he will never answer my questions honestly anyway. I am slowly becoming resigned to this. I journal and post a lot of these questions as a way of getting them out of my system. I know that may make it seem like I am not letting him go...but I am...it’s a slow process. I have been 100% devoted to him for 13 years...never even considered or thought about life with anyone else. I just thought that when he got better, we could work on things and I counted on that. I see now that that was a mistake and my brain is fully on board with detaching and getting on with my life. My heart is just going to take a bit longer to catch up.
Hmm... reread my post. I sound kinda bitter don’t I? I’m trying not to be. My H does have a lot of redeemable qualities. Despite all of his running away, I have no doubt he loves our kids. He is crazy talented at a lot of things. He has a wicked sense of humour and he can make the most mundane event seem like a wild adventure. I loved listening to his stories. I still do.
And he used to love me... a lot.
So...not all bad. Hey... new theme song for me... “Space Cowboy” by Kacey Musgraves. I am a little bit country.
You don't sound bitter at all DV6. We all vent about our WAS' a bit here, because this is the place to do it.
You're doing great, keep it up!
DV
You are not bitter .... you are grieving and this process takes as long as it takes. Move through life with dignity and grace and with love and kindness in your heart. All of this you have in spades.
My H is trying to move forward by not looking back. He doesn’t want us to know the extent of his lies so he will never answer my questions honestly anyway.
I saw a lot of my situation in your post, but this really struck me. I think this is why my H is stuck. He's too ashamed ashamed to look at all he's done, and I know a significant amount of it but I believe there's more, and told him as much several months ago, and if he would purge all of those things - to me, an IC, priest, whomever, he would have a burden lifted. Of course that made him run further. They won't truthfully answer our questions because they don't want to admit the answers out loud about themselves. Safer to bury them.
Good Morning DV
I had to laugh at your reflection at yourself. Yes, you did sound bitter.
Total understandable, and healthy. And totally fleeting. Those feelings, like all feelings, are temporary and will flit away to be replaced with others. I found a nice touch of humour, helps when dealing with ourselves and our temporary emotion side. I think you have a similar humour side and smile a bit when the venting is over.
As others have said, venting is necessary, part of grief, part of the process.
I like Grace21’s comment, she is spot on. If they would only admit things, they would be so better off. Of course if they could we wouldn’t be in the predicament we are in. Remember they are absolutely driven by those feelings, which are cranked to 11. It is going to take a lot of time from them to come down and for their feelings to extinguish.
The admitting things to a priest, IC, friends - is really admitting it to yourself. That is the true step of healing they need to take.
We, the LBS, also need to take that step. Admitting the fear, anger, loneliness, abandonment, ... whatever it is. That pushes back denial and starts us towards acceptance, and the big one is accepting who we are and who we would like to be. Then we have a heading and a path, usually towards being a better person.
This is a vulnerable and fragile time for the LBS. It is also a fantastic opportunity to see yourself and make those changes we’ve all put off for too long.
I think you are doing a great job. Dignity, grace, kindness, and compassion.
Keep moving forward.
DnJ
Thank you all for your support and, as always, for your encouragement and advice. I woke up pretty early this morning. My sleep seems to have shifted from waking up in the middle of the night to just waking up early now. I don’t mind it. Gives me a chance to set my goals for the day. I still think of my H first thing but not in an obsessive way so it is not as painful. I am coming to terms with the fact that the H I loved so much no longer exists. It is really just his ghost that I have to contend with now.
Well... nice surprise for the day. My SD19 just contacted me. She’s visiting her sisters who live about 90 minutes away. She wants to come for dinner and stay overnight. I offered to contact her dad to see if he wants to join us but she said no... she just wants to see me and her brother and sister. She says she hasn’t worked out what she wants to say to her dad yet. Not sure what it is she wants to say. Certainly she has lost some respect for him with everything that has happened. I feel bad for him in some ways. He has lost a lot and gained...? Guess time will tell... (((Hugs))) to all.
Hi DV
Isn’t wonderful when you can sleep a full night? The getting up every 90 minutes was horrible. Sleep deprivation on top of everything else.
It’s those dreams. I am so glad that is over. January 8, 2018 (I think) my last night being woke up by bad dreams. Yay me!
My W, well STBXW, was first in my mind when I awoke, for a while after that. It was an interesting day when I realized while pulling on my socks one morning that I had not thought of her as of yet.
Now it is so peaceful, awakening gently without reality slamming into my brain, and emotions at full throttle. This old engine likes to get started at a more leisure pace, it can run a long time, but let it warm up a bit first. Lol
It’s coming DV, you are well on your way.
It is great to see SD19 coming over for dinner and staying the night. It is not surprising she doesn’t wish to see Dad. He blew up a lot of lives and there will be repercussions.
It was nice of you to offer to contact him if she wanted. Now let that be, do not get in the middle of their relationship. It is not your job to facilitate the relationship between H and his kids, your job is to not destroy it.
I did interfere once between S17 and W. It didn’t end well, S17 lashed out, and vented his anger on me. Yep, lesson learned, not touching that stove again.
I hope you have a wonderful dinner and visit.
DnJ
Thanks DnJ. It’s been a bit of a tough night with my kids.
Had a short but good visit with my SD (she got here late). She hasn’t said much about her dad other than she is mad at him. Says both her parents are unreliable and I am the only one who she can really count on. Not sure why she is mad at him. She’s made a couple of comments...nothing really...but I get the feeling she knows some things about him that I don’t. I don’t know why I think that. She hasn’t said anything specific...it is just a feeling. Anyway... she did say that she has a lot of pent up feelings and a lot of things she wants to say to him but she is worried he would just yell at her. Ironically, all the things she wants to say to him are probably the exact same things he would like to say to his dad.
She also thanked me for letting her come to visit. She said that she knows that she is his daughter and she doesn’t want to remind me of him. I told her that was ridiculous... as far as I am concerned, she is my daughter too and she will always have a place in my home and in my heart.
My son had a bit of a cry when I gave him his bath tonight. He was worried about having to go to his dad’s on the weekend. He cried because he doesn’t like going there but doesn’t want to hurt his dad’s feelings. I reminded him that his dad was going to be staying at our place with them on the weekend because both me and his grandma were going to be away so they needed to take care of the dog. He was relieved. I didn’t know what else to say so I just told him that his dad would be more worried about him being sad and that he can always tell us when he is upset. I also told him that he should not worry about us and it is our job to worry about him. I try very hard to be as upbeat and as positive as possible but in those moments, I am furious with my H for being so incredibly selfish and shortsighted.
I know...these are feelings...and they will pass. My values will keep me on the right path. I just wish they didn’t have to be tested so often.
Good Morning DV
Every time you are tested your values gain in strength. I also would like the testing to be less often.
Your SD19 probably does know things you do not. Her Dad could be still talking to her, more than he is with you. It was in my case, until that stopped also.
She is 19 and in her words both of her parents are unreliable, she has you as some she can count on. Keep nurturing and helping her, as I said 19 years old, she needs guidance even if she doesn’t want it. You are her Mom, she knows you are the safe parent and available. She will need both of those qualities plus more. She will be alright.
She is mad at her Dad, makes sense. You may just get a bit of static from her, being the safe parent. She has to vent, and she doesn’t want Dad to yell at her, or to lose him. Make sure, from your actions, that she knows she can’t lose you, and can come to you always.
Her comment of her not wanting to remind you of him. You mentioned the ridiculousness of it, and ok of course you are correct. But she brought it up for a reason. She wants to talk about how you are reminded of H, how she is reminded of Dad, to know she can visit you without feeling responsible for bringing you further pain with reminding you of H. (Well a guess from this side of the screen)
Perhaps talking about the details she brings up. Something like - I think of H all the time. Your visits or calls do not remind me anymore than I already do. In fact you remind me of the good times as a family, and how very good a daughter you are.
Just a starter, I’m sure you can fill in your love for her.
You are doing great DV. I just saw an opportunity to really actively listen to what she has to say. Young adult, 19 years old, they don’t speak much to begin with, when they do, follow their lead.
You got this DV, and you did great.
DnJ
Thanks DnJ. I think you are right about my SD. She was also upset because both of my kids talked to her about their feelings regarding the S. I think they tell her more than they tell me and my H because they don’t want to upset us. She has never lived with her dad so they are also curious about what that is like. She reassured them that it would be okay but it probably brought up some buried resentments she has of her dad. It is a long story but he only met her about a month before I did. She was 6 years old at the time. For the first seven or eight years, whenever she came over for a weekend, she would mostly want to be around me and was wary and distrusting of her dad. It was only in the last few years that they started to have more of a father-daughter relationship but she has always felt safest with me. So her dad leaving has really set them back. I don’t think he realizes how much. She has lost a lot of respect for him. She doesn’t know the full story but I think she suspects there is more to it than what she knows. If she did know the full story, I think their relationship would be almost non-existent. He missed a lot of family events and important days because of his “treatments” and many of those were directly related to her. Like I mentioned before, he has not been a good person for a very long time. If he truly does want to change that like he says he does, he will have a lot of work to do.
I think they tell her more than they tell me and my H because they don’t want to upset us. She has never lived with her dad so they are also curious about what that is like. She reassured them that it would be okay but it probably brought up some buried resentments she has of her dad.
It is good that your kids have someone they feel they can talk to safely. I would encourage it. I can see my kids suffering and I wish I could take it all away. Some of it is directed at me. They are not use to being without me. They don't like me GAL'g. They don't like me bailing out of family things. It is difficult to know what to do.
Your SD relationship with her dad is just that ... her relationship. If she respects him or doesn't respect him should not be fed by you. Be there for her, but do it for the relationship you have with her. She is not the person to vent too. I made this mistake with H's sister. We use to talk a lot. But now, over a year on, she is embarrassed by his behavior and can't see me because seeing me is too uncomfortable for her. I do not take well to pity, and that is all she has now.
Thanks FS. I have made a point not to tell her very much or vent to her. Her dad has said more to her, I think. Their relationship is very complicated. He has not been a dad to her the way he has been to our twins. Ironically, her relationship with her dad mirrors my H’s relationship with his dad. His dad treats him like a friend and not really like a son except to be critical of him. He has never lived with his dad. His dad got remarried when my H was in his 20s. That marriage eventually broke up but not before they had two children. His dad raised them and has more of a bond with them. It has always bothered my H...and me too. I have told his dad off in my mind a thousand times. I almost stopped in on him during the summer to tell him how unfair he was being to my H and how he has never asked my H how he was doing since he was struggling with his illness. So glad I didn’t do that. Apparently the joke was on me. I found out recently that the reason my FIL never really asked my H how he was doing is because he didn’t believe him. I guess it takes one to know one.
Sorry about your R with your SIL.
So...funny thing. Decided to go to Costco tonight. Had this strange feeling all day. Almost texted my H to tell him that I would be going to Costco so I wouldn’t run into him. I don’t know why. Finally convinced myself that I was just being paranoid and left it. Got to Costco and was almost out the door when I remembered that I had ordered a picture and went back into get it. It wasn’t exactly what I wanted so I spent some time getting it redone before heading out the door. And then who do I run into??? My H and some woman... a short, rednecky not even very attractive woman. He looked like a deer in the headlights. Said “Hi” and “we’ll talk tomorrow” (we already had a planned meeting) and then practically ran away. I guess women’s intuition really is a thing. When I got home I asked my daughter what the woman who lives at Daddy’s place looks like... yep...that was her. She does not look like she is dying from cancer, I’ll tell you that much. Seriously??? Is this the person he is blowing up our lives for??? Of course my MIL says not to jump to conclusions... she says she has friends who are dying who look perfectly fine. If he comes over here tomorrow and says that was her and sticks to his story, I am going to insist on meeting her. I’ll tell you this much though. Detaching just got a whole lot easier.
I'm so sorry. Trust your instinct, or your gut feeling, it already knows. Maybe it always did ...
I don't know your H and there are differences between all of our sitches. There are also similarities that cannot be denied, especially when it comes to deceit and waywardness. I've been reading here for 4.5 years and the patterns in them become fairly easy to spot. Most spouses, especially men, do not leave their families to be alone, but they leave them to pursue someone else. It seems with as many years as he has been running away, this A has been going on for some time now. That or there has been more than one OW. It's hard to believe, I know. My IC helped me understand that this is what usually hapens in D; one person has an A and then leaves the M to pursue it. The A most often doesn't translate into a long term R, however that is the main reason why they leave initially.
It still blows my mind my H could have done that. He's the last man one would think could do that. However, in only a small percentage of sitches here, the S just ups and walks away without an A. In those cases it is usually a woman and she most often has been expressing some unhappiness in the M for many years, thus the walkaway wife.
So what now? You can confront and ask him, but he will only feed you more lies. I think you know the truth. I personally don't think he even deserves the opportunity to BS you more than he already has been for years. Can you hold your head up high, drop the rope and go dark? Maybe now is the time he sees you are no longer his plan B.
Blu
Thanks Blu. If he tells me this is the “roommate” who has cancer and he is not involved with her, I am going to insist on meeting her myself. If he refuses, I will have my answer. If this is an affair, I suspect it is not the first as he was definitely not involved with her for at least the first eight months we were here as he had no access to extra money and he was home 99% of the time... no overnight absences. For the 2 1/2 years prior to that when he was gone 80% of the time, I don’t know. Maybe one or two affairs or more?? He wants me to move on so I am going to tell him the best way to make that happen would be for him to be honest with me. Tell me exactly what he was doing all that time. Maybe it will even do him some good to confess. I know it will help me a lot. I am pretty sure I can hold my head up high and have the conversation. We had planned to meet anyway. Just going to be a different agenda.
D6
That must have been awful for you,
Take a deep breath. It [censored] in the mightiest proportions but here’s the thing: it doesn’t change your reality. He is a master manipulator. You already knew that. IF this is an AP then it just adds to his already deceitful repertoire. It doesn’t alter what you already knew about the marriage.
If it was innocent then why run away? You have already talked about this woman so wouldn’t he have just introduced her. I so recognise then caught in the headlights look.
As you say, makes detaching easier. Don’t ask him about it. Detach away and see what he comes up with. Don’t help him out. Make him squirm in his explanation. And always remember that you can’t trust what will come spewing forth.
I would doubt that he left for her but doesn’t she fulfill his sad little needs? Whatever their R it is inappropriate but I bet it makes him feel like a stunning knight on a white charger.
Chin up girl. You were showing mighty strength. This doesn’t alter things. Keep going.
Thanks Yorkie. Surprisingly...I was not as upset as I had anticipated I would be. I don’t live in a huge town so I always thought it was inevitable that I would run into him with another woman. Very strange that I had a premonition it would be tonight. I even checked our Costco account to see when he was last there and it was only four days ago so I didn’t think he would be back that soon. I go to Costco all the time and this is the first time that I worried about running into him.
If it was innocent, he should have introduced me but it all happened so fast and she was already through the door because I don’t think she notice us there. He spoke to me super quickly and kept moving. I was a bit too shocked (that my premonition came true) to do anything. In hindsight, I should have turned around, gone into the store and introduced myself.
My sister was funny. I couldn’t get over how average looking she was...no one you would look at twice. I guess you always imagine that your H would leave you for someone “better. She just looked at me, “Seriously, DV? You didn’t think he was going to be able to find someone like you, did you? He’s not that great. He needs to find someone who will hang onto his every word so he can feel like a big man.” Well... I always thought he was pretty great but he’s blowing that theory out of the water. All I can say is that I hope this deceitful way of living life is not hereditary. I pray my kids take after me in that regard.
I am sure when he arrives tomorrow, it will be the first thing he wants to talk about. I’m just going to let him talk. I do have some questions that need to be answered though. I really want to know about the other affairs as well. I want him to at least admit it. Confession is good for the soul, I’m told. It will help me too. I need to know exactly what kind of a person I married. Pathological liar? Sociopath? Serial cheater? He told me his is broken and I’m pretty sure he is right.
DV. I like your sister. She’s spot on. Truth from him would be nice but can we ever be sure it is the truth. It may be his version of reality that you hear. I’m not sure it’ll matter that much to you in the long run. You are now in control of you and how you feel and act. And you are honest, loyal and awesome irrespective of him.
My H is coming over tonight for a conversation. In light of last night’s run-in, any advice on how I should handle it?
You know perfectly how to handle the incoming meeting DV. You are a DBer. ;-)
A few more specifics would be helpful...lol
I would let him "try to explain" first and take it from there. He is going to try to not make it seem like a big deal but you're going to see right through the BS and lies. When he does, do what R2C says and say "Stop, we both know you are lying. When you are ready to tell me the truth we can talk." Or something to that effect.
DV6,
Go look up Ready2Change posts. He has some helpful prompts and info when dealing with a lying spouse. Good luck, I will keep you in my prayers.
Feeling nervous about tonight...and confused. Don't know what I want to talk about. Originally I just wanted to figure out birthday and Christmas plans and not have anything resembling an R talk. But this new development necessitates some kind of acknowledgement or clarification? He sure looked guilty of something. If that is an affair, it is definitely an affair down. I'm not full of myself or anything but geez... give up everything he has for HER and a couple of teenagers who are not his? He sees those kids more than he sees his own. It's disgusting, really. I honestly have no idea how he sleeps at night leading the life he has led for the past four or five years. He has lied to and betrayed the people he claimed to love and care about the most and who love and care about him the most. How CAN someone be happy and do that knowing that they didn't do one constructive thing to try to change the direction they were heading? It is like he is completely devoid of a moral structure or has any kind of values whatsoever. And this is the role model to my kids???
Feeling nervous about tonight...and confused. Don't know what I want to talk about. Originally I just wanted to figure out birthday and Christmas plans and not have anything resembling an R talk. But this new development necessitates some kind of acknowledgement or clarification? He sure looked guilty of something. If that is an affair, it is definitely an affair down. I'm not full of myself or anything but geez... give up everything he has for HER and a couple of teenagers who are not his?
DV, your plan should not change. See the bolded part above, stick to that. Act as if you never saw them at the store. Your attitude about that should be "don't know don't care". I mean you know he's left you and is in an A, does it really matter whether his affair partner is beautiful or ugly? I've seen a lot of threads in my days here and there is one constant- WAS's nearly always "affair down". Sometimes waaaaaaay down.
He has lied to and betrayed the people he claimed to love and care about the most and who love and care about him the most. How CAN someone be happy and do that knowing that they didn't do one constructive thing to try to change the direction they were heading? It is like he is completely devoid of a moral structure or has any kind of values whatsoever. And this is the role model to my kids???
Exactly. So what kind of meaningful, heart-to-heart conversation do you think you can have with a crazy, lying, cheater? You can't, so don't even try. STICK TO BUSINESS.
Thank you AS. That make sense. What if he brings it up?
Hello DV
Oh my, sorry for the suddenness of how you found out. I am assuming your H is having an A. As has been stated most do not leave to be alone, my W sure didn’t.
Stick to the business at hand, the Birthday amd Christmas plans.
If he brings it up. I totally get it, wanting to know, wanting some closure. I did ask my W if she had any other affairs? This after she proudly admitted in front of me and her kids that she was adulterous and we can therefore get a divorce quicker. She went silent and did not answer. I told her at this point, does it really matter, just tell me the truth. She then reluctantly say no she never did. Of course, I am not really believing that, for obvious reasons.
Point is, no matter what he says, for now you cannot trust him. The loss of trust is a big thing. Even if he tells the truth, you still will question it.
So, if he want to talk about things other than the party and Christmas, let him. Validate and move on to the next topic of what you need to discuss.
One thought for you regarding that compassion you have, and the higher road you would like to travel.
You now have something on him. It is easy to make him squirm, suffer, be afraid of what you might do or who you might tell. What you do now can really promote you within yourself. I get it, he diserves a blast, and no one would fault you for it. However, after the dust settled, would it make any changes? Any you’d want? Probably not, it would just make things worse (yes it can get worse).
It would change you however. Changes born out of emotion and passion are usually not the best or most thought out. They are the ones we mostly regret. Save yourself from that. Stick to the higher road. Once you are further along, this time, his actions, they really wont matter to you - however you will matter to you, and how you behaved will matter.
And from the upcoming D negotiations side of things. Him being unsure of what might happen, may just get you less conflict in gaining things you want during the D process. My W was so enamoured with OM (a true slug of a man, boy do they affair down) she through everything away. I do realize my case was a tad on the extreme side. Still best not to make an enemy of H, especially not yet.
I hope this conversation goes smoothly for you.
Stay strong.
(((DejaVu)))
DnJ
Thank you AS. That make sense. What if he brings it up?
Pick up a heavy frying pan, cross your arms and look him squarely in the eye. Say "what exactly do you want to discuss?"
Seriously what is there to talk about, you already know he's having an A. The only difference is now you have a face to go with it. If he brings it up then just tell him you're not interested in talking about it, period. From here on out things should be 100% business. Talk about logistics and nothing else. We talk a lot here about listening and validating, but that doesn't apply to a cheater. You should cut all contact with a cheater except what is minimally required due to kids or finances.
Hey DV,
How did it go? I really mean on your end. I wouldn't trust a word that came out of your H's mouth.
I wish I had had time to post yesterday before the meeting. I am with the others in that I do not believe a word he says. He has been dishonest for several years now, so you cannot trust him or anything he says. I would also hate to think that you would give him a platform to spin another web of lies. He doesn't deserve that.
The general DB advice is no R talks and to not even engage in a conversation like this at all. If (and only if) he were trying to pursue R with you, then the advice would be different. Once he starts his spewing of lies, you can put your hand up and say, "please stop, we both know this isn't the truth, yada yada." He would need to demonstrate full transparency and remorse before considering giving him another chance. However, he does not seem to be in that place yet.
My advice would have been to not even allow the conversation to happen. I would advised you cancel it altogether and just let him know something came up. Let him wonder why, who cares what he thinks. If you were to go forward with it, I would have advised you to keep it strictly business -- kids, finances, and logistics only. He does not even deserve the opportunity to feed you more of his BS lies! If he were to even try to lie more about some poor woman he is helping or his own hardships and "finding himself" (wow, that makes me mad), then you could simply cut him off and say, "let's just stick to the kids/finances and how to move forward." Poker face on.
I hope you are well otherwise. This is hard stuff, especially around the holidays.
Blu
Hi All.
Sorry I’ve been incommunicado for a bit. It’s been a rough two days. Yesterday was not a DB day at all but, in a way, it was good. My H and I had a really good talk. He answered some questions for me. He STILL says this is not an affair... she is on morphine for her pain and not allowed to drive so he offered to take her to Costco. Honestly...she does not look like his type but...I have gotten to a different place so I really don’t care anymore. He says he is not on dating sites and that is not on his radar. He just wants to be on his own and has wanted that since the kids were about four years old. He admitted to missing my friendship and vice versa. We hugged...we cried a bit... it was tough. But then... right at the end, he pulls out of his pocket an envelope and presents me with preliminary separation agreement. Yeah...my unorganized H is suddenly organized. No matter... I looked it over...there are definitely some missing facts that he is going to have to adjust. For instance, he told his lawyer that he agreed to leave the home in May. Uh no... he sold his car, rented himself a secret place and then pretended to be in hospital every night for treatment until I discovered his secret in the middle of September. I cannot believe he told his lawyer an outright lie like that. Or...maybe I can...lol. He also told his lawyer I recently spent $15,000 on a couch and a pool table. Um no... the couch was purchased in June 2017 and the pool table in November of that same year. He was still living at home pretending to be my husband dreaming with me about our retirement boat we were going to buy. That was a joint expenditure.
Some of what he offered is actually quite reasonable in terms of me buying him out of his share of the home. Where we are going to get stuck is on the child custody/support part but I am going to see a lawyer very soon to draft up a counter offer. We are not too far apart but he does want 50/50 custody like i predicted. That is the part that is tough because I know my kids will be really upset about it. They don’t want to live with him. He wants a 2-2-3 schedule which I think is just crazy. The kids will feel like ping pong balls. If we have to do 50/50, it will need to be one week at a time. Logistics are a bit questionable as he can’t pick them up right after school so will expect that they can walk to my house and stay there until he picks them up. Also...if they get sick or something, he won’t be able to stay home with them. HIs mom or me have always been the ones to do that. Anyway... we will have to work that out in mediation.
Today I was super anxious. Had a couple of almost panic attacks. So not me. My sister and her H came over tonight and we crunched some numbers and my sister’s family law background really helped to ease some of my fears. I have a good lawyer picked out that she knows. I am calling her tomorrow. I think once all of this is decided, it is going to be a lot easier to drop the rope. Strangely... I am in a good place tonight. (((HUGS))) to you all!!!
Hi Deja. Just catching up on your sitch. So sorry you had to see H with the bimbo. That really stinks. And now you have to deal with the reality of a separation agreement. So sorry. I think WAS will slip in all kinds of lies so they don't look or feel so bad about what they are doing. They know they are the "bad guy", so they try to buffer some of the blame. Stay vigilant! And strong! Hugs.
DV6...he has wanted to be free since the kids were about 4...and from your signature they are 10 now?? So he waited 6 years and NOW decides? That dog don’t hunt!
His type or not something is going on for sure. Get the paperwork done and let him go.
Praying for you and your children!
B
Thank you B & G. Yep...that’s my H. He said he felt financially trapped so rather than talk to me, try to make things better, he decides to just say nothing, let his resentment build until I wanted to move which then gave him a way out. But even then, he keeps pretending. We spent a ton of money on furnishings and our boat, etc... The money we have left is actually from the inheritance I received when my mom passed away. He neglected to tell his lawyer about that. Made it sound like the money we had left over from the house sale was what was in our savings. If I had known about this then, we would have done things way differently and both of us would have been better off. Anyway... I feel like karma is a B*tch and my H has plenty of it coming.
The money we have left is actually from the inheritance I received when my mom passed away. He neglected to tell his lawyer about that. Made it sound like the money we had left over from the house sale was what was in our savings.
I don't know the laws where you are, but inheritance is for the person to keep. Not considered joint property, unless it was put into a joint account and mingled with joint finances, I believe. There is some $ in a trust for my H and his sister and niece. It will be interesting if he plans on sharing that with me if we D considering i was the primary caretaker of both his parents and their finances. I really took care of everything. We'll see!
DV - I am so sorry you had to go through that and that I’ve not been here for you. Things have been crazy my side so haven’t had much time. I read your sitch this morning and meant to respond - but apparently they need me to work when I am in the office ...
Anyway - I agree with the others. There is probably more going on than what he is telling you. I would pay no attention to what she looks like to etc because, I think, a man who has been that miserable for that long would run to anything that doesn’t represent responsibility, commitment and having to face reality. He is with her because she is not you (and by you, I mean all you represent). He is a coward and a fantasist and right now the best thing he did was leave you, and the best thing that could have happened is that you ran into them in CostCo. It might not seem like it now, but it was exactly what you needed to drop that rope. One day you will see it as serendipity at work.
Karma is a b*ch and it will come back. You have handled yourself with honour and dignity. Do not forget that.
In regards to the kids. If he wants them 50/59 then he has to prove he can look after them 50/50 without ANY dependence on you. This means getting a place closer to the school that the kids can walk to, be able to look after them when they’re ill etc. You are no longer his wife. He cannot expect you to pick up his slack like a wife.
Re the inheritance. I guess that depends on where you live. Can I be honest though - if push comes to shove let him have half. Don’t fight - it will draw it out. Take the high road. It is only money and eventually it will all go to the twins.
You can do this. You are stronger than you know
FS
DV
Thanks for the update. I was worried about what happened. Please remember not to believe a word that he says. He is clearly still rewriting history.
I'm sorry that you have to deal with the logistics of the separation agreement, that must be hard. But it sounds like you are dealing with it well. Above all take care of yourself and your kids. Everything else is secondary. You can do this!
Don't forget to GAL!
Thanks everyone. I'm actually not too worried about the inheritance part because we are not that far apart in what would be an acceptable agreement money and house wise. It was the fact that he just didn't tell his lawyer about it. That and a number of other things. I'm still not 100% convinced he is having an A with that woman. If he is, I actually am reaching the point of not caring. Honestly...I am a much better catch. She is kind to my kids either as his roommate or his girlfriend. As long as she is that, I don't care what she is to him. And I honestly mean that.
I took off my ring this morning. It actually doesn't feel that bad. What did it represent anyway? Lies, lies and more lies. There is a part of me that will always love my H...the H that I fell in love with, the H that loves our kids, the H that used to dream with me. I had a number of years of happiness with that H. But this H is but a shell of his former self. He has many issues that prevent him from being his best self and I don't pretend to understand any of them (except for the ones re: his father). He is throwing away a perfectly fixable marriage, early retirement, financial freedom, numerous holidays, at minimum 50% of his time with his children...for what? I don't think he even knows. Anyway...like I said... I will never understand it but I really do feel that I have finally, finally accepted it and it feels really good. I know that as soon as the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed on this agreement, I will be in a much, much better place. I already feel that I am getting there. It is his loss and I am 100% confident that he will figure that out one day. He will look back on this time and wonder what the heck he was thinking. But...that will be for him to deal with when the time comes. For now...he is off in search of his fantasy life and I wish him well.
Strangely, I am looking forward to posting on the Surviving the Big D section of this forum. I think good things are ahead for me and I am looking forward to it. ROPE DROPPED!!!
Ugh... H was here tonight to talk a bit about the proposed agreement. He is dead set on 50/50 custody. Even spent a couple of days in family court watching the proceedings... tells me they ruled 50/50 pretty much every time. Of course I got teary and it ended okay but man, I am tired of feeling all of these up and down feelings. I had a great day today... felt confident, positive, like “I got this” and then I see him...sadness, loss, regret... It is ridiculous... why can’t I remember what a Class A jerk he has been to me when I am with him. I have no problem remembering it when I don’t see him. Detaching is such a difficult process.
I am dreading telling the kids about the 50/50 arrangement. They are going to be so sad and teary. It is going to break my heart. Didn’t know it could break any more but it definitely can.
DV6,
As I have mentioned to you before I am a firm believer in 50/50 custody. That being said I don't think you should say anything to your kids or agree with your H until you talk to your lawyer first.
D6
I agree, no need to prepare them yet. Just reassure them you and Dad are talking about it and that you’re both doing what you can to make it the best you can for them. If 50/50 is awarded then you will have to sell it to the kids as if your life depended on it.
Affair or no affair is not even an issue. His unwillingness to be a H to you is the only reality you need to deal with. Of course we will never understand their ****edupness so don’t even try. We can’t force someone to be happy and logical. He’s tried living on his own and he likes it, or so he’s telling himself, so let him crack on.
Does he still come round when he feels like it? It is probably time for that to change. He doesn’t get to come round unannounced when it suits him. That way you get to prepare yourself mentally. Prearranged days and times. Then keep a record of any times he’s late or can’t manage to have them.
D6 forgive me for saying this but I’m actually pleased for you right now. You finally know the reality of your situation and can deal with it. No more sitting on the sidelines being a victim to his whims.
The last 6 years must have been sheer flipping exhausting hell. You will find some inner peace now and just be able to focus on you and the kids. He’s made his bed he can lie in it.
The true D6 is re emerging. Not just the wife or mother or employee but YOU. Stand tall and let her have her voice.
Thanks everyone. Woke up feeling really sad again. I can’t get this custody thing off of my mind. I cannot imagine going seven days without seeing them but that 2-2-3 idea sounds a bit too disruptive. I don’t know how I am going to get through this. I know I have no choice. My kids are going to be devastated. He has been a part-time dad for years and they love him but they do not miss him when they are home with me. They are happy to see him when they see him but that’s about it. They used to miss him but he was gone so often, they just got used to it eventually and they stopped. He did that, not me. And now after such unbelievable deceitful behaviour, he returns, expects everyone to get in line and has the audacity to tell his mom that “it will be good for them.” Good for them??? To be away from the one person who has been there day in and day out for them 50% of the time. Good for them??? My H is a master at spinning things to suit his point of view. My kids miss me like crazy when they are at his place. My son tells me two days is long enough and he was upset when it was three days once. My daughter deals with it a bit better but she tells me she really missed me the second she walks in the door and she has told me she doesn’t want to live with him.
I don’t know how to sell this Yorkie. He doesn’t come around at all when he isn’t scheduled to see them. In fact, it is more out of sight, out of mind. He doesn’t call them or text them... a couple times, maybe, but that was only after I pointed it out. I asked him if he is going to be able to pick them up right after school every day because his house is not in our neighbourhood. He says “yes, I will figure something out”. LIke what? Is he going to clone himself? Figure out how to be in two places at once? I know what he is going to figure out. He’s going to want his mom to pick them up and take them to our place until he can pick them up.
I’m going away with my sister today for two days while he has them. Normally I would be excited but now I just feel empty. I feel like I have failed my kids. And I know... I know I didn’t do this and my H really went to extremes to blow this up. Still...I can’t help feeling that I could have done something to stop it.
DV6,
Hang in there. Enjoy the time with your sister. Where are you going? What are you going to do?
It's not your fault that your H is a POS, so don't take on any blame that doesn't belong to you.
In terms of custody, I am no expert and there are probably people on here better versed than I, but you say that he has only been a part-time dad for years, that he rarely calls or texts them, that he doesn't come around often, that he has no real plan to pick them up at school. Can you back that up with evidence (phone records, or log of visits) that might be helpful? He might talk a good game, but his actions over the past months don't seem convincing that he is actually a good parent.
Hi Deja, sorry this is such a difficult time. I haven't caught up on your sitch but I see your BD dates, boy has this gone on a long time! Glad it is winding down towards the end.
OK, so I'm coming from a different side of things. My XW was the one that ended the relationship. Maybe that's a big difference, maybe it isn't. But at the time I was a very distant father, and she was a SAHM, and I think she assumed I wouldn't have much to do with the kids.
During our marriage I wasn't very connected with the family. Partly due to being really A type, I worked a lot and play professional level pool, so I was in really high gear all the time. Partly because I just didn't connect with young kids. Some fathers say they see their baby and their life changes, me, it didn't connect. They seemed totally alien to the world I lived in because I was all head and no heart. And partly because there was so much stress between XW and I it was easier to stay away from the family altogether. I'll also add that my XW was fully supportive of the narrative that I wasn't a real parent and I lacked belief I could be.
Everything changed after BD. BD really made me question who I was, how I was living. My children were getting older (10, 7, and 4 at the time) and all of a sudden I could start reading stories to them, and playing games with them, and connecting with them as people for the first time in my life. I remember feeling like I had watched them grow up from the other side of a glass wall, never touching. Suddenly they were with me and it made sense. Part of it was the urgency of the situation. Before I always thought I had time, things would work out naturally, but suddenly I was in a spot where if I didn't demonstrate immediate action then I would lose not just my wife, but my entire family for ever.
I was a changed man. I hung up my pool cue and started taking care of my kids. I taught them how to eat more foods than microwave meals. We played games, read books, watched movies. We did homework and I gave them extra assignments because we'd get really excited about the things we'd learn about the world. Long walks in the summer on trails. Playing chess and teaching them how to work hard. Museums. But also just a lot of day to day stuff. Brushing teeth, dishes, when we'd go grocery shopping, bed time routine. Just like when I realized I could play with the pros, I realized I could be a dad. Not just a play day, or a fun dad, but a real dad.
XW really didn't want me to have 50/50 parental time, and it was horrible. It seemed really unfair she could break up a marriage and then unilaterally deny me the rights to be a parent. Seeing kids every other weekend is NOT the same as living with them. And when I found out that I was going to be 'interviewed' by social services I was outraged. It seemed dispicable that I would have to audition for the right to be a parent to my kids. Think about that for a minute- how would you feel if you had to convince someone else you deserved to be their mother? I have never been angrier in my entire life. Here was that post:
I'm not sure I can do this.
Monday I am meeting at the court for social evaluation. This is where I am there with my L, STBX and her L, and two court appointed social workers. The purpose of the meeting is to get a couple of recommended parenting time schedules from the courts and try to reach an agreement.
I am the 'petitioner' and am supposed to open with a 20 minute presentation. This is to cover how STBX and I met, what our relationship was like when it was good, where things broke down, what it was like when it fell apart, and then my relationship with the kids.
I lost it at my L's office. I did. I told her there is no way I am going to give a biography of my marriage in front of these people and STBX. My L told me that I had to, that it was my opportunity to show that I was able to say good things about STBX, and that if I couldn't it would reflect poorly on me. L was very strong on this point that I didn't have a choice and that for the sake of my children I needed to do this. I told her that I simply couldn't have this conversation.
L continued and said I had one shot to make an impression and to make sure I included certain things to impress the social workers with how I was an involved dad and the things I was doing with my children that demonstrated this. She suggested doing a few things like making sure I showed I knew the names of their teachers, and registered for a log in to the district online community so I could talk about following those events. I told L I DIDN'T know the names of their teachers and I'm not going to lie. Any condescending SAHM that thinks that makes me an uninvolved dad and rolls their eyes has no clue. I have been the sole income earner in my family for 10 years, and suddenly my work load has tripled with providing for TWO households, parenting the kids while they're with me, and taking care of all of the things STBX used to do. I told her I was up to my A-hole in alligators, meanwhile STBX hasn't lifted a finger or brought in a penny since she BD'd me 18 months ago, and all she has done has played 'mom of the year' and rubbed elbows with teachers and hung at community events and PTA meetings. I said if this was a contest of who could drop the most names we shouldn't even bother. I am an AWESOME dad, my kids love me and flourish when I'm with them, if that's not enough they can $*%& themselves.
Then L got heavy handed and said I had one shot to make this work and that if I didn't, it would be 4-9 months of further social evaluations at my place, making notes with how I handled my children. I told her that while I appreciated that she was trying to help me do what's best for my family I wasn't going to be threatened and bullied by her or these criminals in robes at the courts. I am who I am, my children need me. I will speak to that, I can say what I can say, but I'm not going to fight for my rights to parent. This entire system is inhuman and If some third parties want to keep my children away from me because I won't do their dance then they can go right ahead, and may God have mercy on their souls.
That's about where we ended.
Since then I planned to write out my presentation but I am absolutely stuck. I have ideas of what I want to say, but every time I start trying to visualize myself saying one thing I find myself launching into a version of my true feelings which is that everyone in that room should burn in hell.
I guess I won't write it tonight.
I expect I'll find a way through. I'm sure I'll calm. I'm sure I'll come up with a compelling and mature and inspiring presentation. For Christ's sake I'm a talented writer and professional salesman. But all I can see is the pain this has caused and continues to cause my children and their endorsement of every step of it. I guess I get to watch my children get tortured in front of me but stay respectful to the people doing it or they'll stick in more swords. Good for them.
Yes, this is probably a very emotional and immature and unsophisticated way of looking at it, I'm sure these workers and this system has some good intent on caring for the innocent children caught between separations. I'm probably like a four year old throwing a fit. Probably validates all the reasons STBX left. That's fine. I am emotional and immature and unsophisticated. I don't want anyone's approval and will gladly keep to myself. I'll wave to my kids whenever the courts agree it's safe to be around a lunatic like me, the rest of the time I'll work like a mule to care for them and solve chess problems until I get a bullet in the head like the guy in 1984. White to play. Always white to play...
But then I realized I was playing the most important match of my life, and I prayed and asked for strength, and I rose to the occasion. Here is what happened:
I went to a drugstore and got two little plastic scrap books that hold 36 photos...then I printed out duplicate copies of 36 pictures of my kids, and put them in a nice order.
During my presentation I am going to start by skimming through the years we were together very, very quickly. Then I'm going to talk about BD and the days since. What I've done as a man. IC, support group, journaling, and reconnecting with my family. Then I'm going to talk about what I've done as a dad. Working hard to support them in both households, getting a different job that allows me more flexibility to make room for increased time with them. Then I'm going to give them a glimpse of what we've done together by going through the scrap book. Science museums, trips to the zoo and festivals, hikes around lakes, board games, reading books, birthday parties, trick or treating...then I'm going to talk about what's not in the pictures, homework, violin lessons, getting them to eat new foods, and so on. How my son doesn't seem like he's got behavioral issues when he's with me, and that I know he feels safe and at home when we're together. How my daughter tells me when we're together it's like the world becomes full of magic and it's like our special universe to just be together.
Then I'm going to talk about what's missing from the pictures. Day to day life. The quiet time where they do their own thing knowing dad is in the room next door. Time to do our own things without the constant pressure to make every hour count. I'll talk about how all my children constantly tell me they miss me and wish they could have more time with me. How when they get in the car on a Tuesday visit after not seeing them for 6 days it's so hard because we've become disconnected, and missed so much life together, and by the time the bond is reestablished our three hours are up and it's time for bed and school and I will see them again on the weekend. And that I hurt being apart for so long, and while this is about the children's pain and not mine, I know that they are hurting too.
Then I'll tell them what I want. 50/50 parenting time. OK to make that happen over 1-2 steps over the next 3-12 months. I'll mention that I know there are concerns. I know there are trade offs. This is disruptive to their school week, etc. But I'll let it be known that it wasn't my choice, and it darn sure wasn't the children's, and it's not fair to them to give them anything less than a meaningful relationship with both of their parents.
Then I'm going to drop the mic and walk the heck out of that place.
OK. That's an abridged rough draft. I'll revise tomorrow, then rehearse Sunday night. Bottom line though, I will deliver a presentation powerful enough to generate tears if it weren't for the fact everyone else in the room is remorseless and eats babies for breakfast.
Well, the social services group agreed with me. They told XW that she needed to realize that while I had clearly been distant during their infancy and clearly didn't have the experience she had, I had taken consistent steps over the next two years to step up as a father, and that I was not just a parent, I was an equal parent and had the right to share a life with my children. This was the single most important day of my life.
We did set up a 2-3-3-2 schedule. XW was dead against, and kept making the case it would be better for the kids if they just lived with her during the school year. No chance. I am their father and it is NOT better for the kids for them to not have a close connection with me in their lives. So what that I have to drive them to 3 different schools and it takes 3 hours in the car the days I have them. Doesn't matter. We are a super close family and every moment is precious. And whether my XW thinks I'm a pretend parent or not, I can tell you that I am teaching my kids how to grow up tall and straight. My XW is a nurturer and she brings things I do not. I am a leader and teach my kids how to navigate. We actually make a really, really good team as long as we don't have to talk to each other. I would never suggest they don't need their mother, but I will fight to the death for my right to be their father.
The 2-3-3-2 schedule isn't all that bad surprisingly. It allows me to spend more time with the kids when I have them, and when I don't I can become a degenerate and go to pool tournaments, etc. I have almost as much time with them as if we were still married. If we were married I wouldn't spend every minute with my kids. Well, now I do on the days I have them, then I relax on the days I don't. I still feel I am as close with my children as could be.
OK, just a few thoughts from a dad's point of view. It's not fair he can destroy your relationship and family. It's not fair you don't get to live with them full time. It's not fair he can betray you. True, true, true. But in the end you have to want what's best for the kids, and having a good relationship with their father is very important regardless of how he hurt you. I'd recommend the 2-3-3-2 schedule and don't worry, you'll ALWAYS be their mom and will be as close to them as you want to be.
Hang in!
PS- I'm just relaying my own sitch. If he is a total scumbag that is just trying to hurt you or avoid paying more child support then that's different. Social services usually sees through those things, the same way they saw I was genuine. Just be open minded to the benefits of a father, that's all.
Thank you Davide and Zeus. My H is not a total scumbag but if you read my sitch, you will understand why I am struggling with this so much. My H led a double life for four years. He pretended to be going for nightly medical treatments and we would go days without seeing him. I worked full time, did almost all of the housework and bill paying, dealt with the often hostile mother of his oldest daughter, spent almost every night alone and then was constantly mad at myself for being so selfish as to be unhappy when my poor H was in the hospital every night. From March 2018 to BD 2, he slept at home one night including the week that I was away on a cruise and he left the kids with his mother every night. I get where you are coming from, I really do but I have never been as used or abused as I was by my H. He took advantage of my devotion to him and even took away my ability to own my own feelings when I was so desperately lonely. My kids were my only source of comfort for years and now he is taking them away too. Yes...I realize I will have them 50% but it is not enough. I am glad you woke up. My H was actually a good dad for the first four years of their lives and I think he is returning to that now. Why he could not do that before, I will never understand. True forgiveness will be a long time coming.
I can see from your more recent posts that you are finally at a point where you are angry with him. Whilst I would never let anger be my driving force, it is honestly what you need right now to get your sh!t together. You've spent so many hours trying to work out why so that you can could understand and forgive, that at times, in all that spinning, you forgot what a terrible thing he has done. And I get this. I too have spent many many nights staring at the ceiling asking what ever forces are out there "why". But there is a time for forgiveness and understanding (and I think if there was any of us here with the capacity for forgiveness and understanding it is you) but now is the time for practicalities.
DV - you are still letting fear drive you. Initially it was fear of what a future without your H would look like. Now it is a future where you only see your children for 50% of the time. Speak to a lawyer. Lay out everything to them the way you have to us. Find out what the likely chances of 50/50 custody are. Just because he has sat in a court room for a few days does not make him a family lawyer. Plus, even if this is what happens in the majority of cases ... YOU, DEJAVU ARE NOT A STATISTIC.
I asked him if he is going to be able to pick them up right after school every day because his house is not in our neighbourhood. He says “yes, I will figure something out”. Like what? Is he going to clone himself? Figure out how to be in two places at once? I know what he is going to figure out. He’s going to want his mom to pick them up and take them to our place until he can pick them up.
How he sorts this out is his problem. If you think the answer is he is going to get his mum to help out then decide now if you would be supportive of this. If not, then think of reasons why you don't want to do it. Speak 'casually' to his mum re whether she'd be willing to support this. Know now what position are you going to take? Have a counter argument ... "It would be better if you were able to move closer to their school" and then bring copies of potential rentals.
Good luck DV - my thoughts are with you. I am so very sorry that this is happening.
Hello DejaVu
Things sure are turbulent for you right now. Try not to get to worked up, you have time, my separation was quick, and it still took 60 days. I think you and H will have a bit more negotiating than W and I, so even longer.
I do agree, you have practicalities that need to be addressed. Custody is such a big emotional item. It will be difficult to keep emotions out of upcoming decisions, wait a good 24 hours before doing anything, and always seek counsel from your L first.
You’re angry. Wow DnJ, so perspective. Lol. It is pretty evident. That is good healthy forward motion. Anger is a good motivator to get through what needs to be done. Please try not to be consumed by it.
I still remember your first impressions to me, they are still alive within me. Are they alive within you?
You wanted to find detachment, compassion, and forgiveness. Excellent and fully obtainable goals. Have your headings changed? Have they changed because of how you feel? Feelings are fleeting.
Do you still want to reached those goals? Don’t answer while looking at custody, the boat, the house, money, affair, etc... forget all that. DV, look 20 years from now - the twins are 31, you have a granddaughter and two grandsons, this is all a long ago distant memory, a barely visible faded scar of a pivotal time in your life. At this future place, all the problems all the practicalities have been resolved and are now just dust. The important things still remain.
Who is DejaVu6? How did you behave? What headings did you follow? What path did you take?
True forgiveness will be a long time coming.
When did you find it? Do you have it yet at 20 years?
Our minds will make our thoughts a reality. If you say and think forgiveness will take a long time - it will.
You are facing some practicalities, some needed tasks. They will be heartbreaking, distasteful, and necessary. And even then, you can still work towards understanding and compassion. How you choose to approach this will have a great effect.
You wanted to achieve detachment, compassion, and forgiveness.
Have your headings changed?
Do you still want to reach those goals?
That path is difficult and at times painful, it is also bathed in light and grace.
Stay strong.
(((DejaVu6)))
DnJ
Zeus,
I just read your long quote from your old thread about your presentation to social services. I feel like my attitude took a huge boost from that. Thank you for stepping into Newcomers and sharing some knowledge.
Deja, you have some great advice, so I'll just offer support. You'll never regret doing the right thing, keeping your head held high, or being positive. Whatever happens, you will deal with it and come through stronger. This is a big obstacle, but it's not the end of the road.
Thank you all so much for your perspectives and your support. The last few days have really been challenging. I’ve been really sad and still in disbelief that my H would throw away everything we have built and all of the advantages we have. We were mortgage and debt free and now we will both have mortgages and budgeting again. Ah well... it really was fun to have such little money stress for the last year and a half.
So my H wants me to buy him out of his portion of the house (for a very reasonable amount..guilt has some advantages) and then his plan is to use the money for a down payment on a house. He is going to have a very large mortgage and will likely need a rental suite to make ends meet. I always sheltered him considerably from the reality of bills throughout our marriage. I carried all of the stress and the only thing he had to do was check with me before making a big purchase and every once in awhile, I would telll him things were tight that month so slow down on the Visa charges. That is it. He has NO idea what extra costs he is going to incur when/if he manages to buy himself a house... and the upkeep. This is the guy who told me I would have to tell him when to mow the lawn because he will never look at it and think... “I should mow it”... nope...he told me “I don’t give a sh*t about the lawn.” And then he resents me for asking him to do things so I ended up mowing it 85% of the time. Guess what? Now he will have to mow it every time himself. I’m actually smiling a bit when I think about the rude awakening he is in for. I go between feeling a little happy about it to actually feeling a bit sorry for him.
My goal still is detachment and yes, DnJ, also forgiveness. If not for me than for my kids. They are going to have enough to contend with. They don’t need their mom and dad visibly angry with one another. So, I will take the high road as it is the right thing to do and I am someone who genuinely tries very hard to do the right thing... even if it means I lose a bit in the end. My kids are the most important people in all of this. My H and I may be able to agree on a schedule but ultimately, I want my kids to have a say if possible. If not now than a year or two from now. My H hasn’t asked them what they think. I asked him if he had talked to them and he said he had told them he would get a house where they could have their own rooms and it would be fun. Yeah... not quite what I meant.
Anyway... it’s late and I have a full day of Christmas shopping tomorrow so I will write more another day. Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my posts. Much love to you all!!!
Just stopping by to let you know I'm thinking about you and offering my support. You are starting to go through probably the toughest time yet. I'm so sorry.
Forgiveness is tough. Just remember it doesn't involve condoning anything. Forgiveness is for you so you can heal and move on to a better, happier you.
Hugs.
Please start a new thread and link the two threads together. Thanks!