This feels strange, I have never posted anything before, and now the most personal experiences to complete strangers, but I need someone who is willing to listen and maybe advice: About a year ago my husband dropped the bomb: He was unhappy and wanted out. I "convinced" him to try again within a few days. That worked for maybe 2 months and then went downhill. Since January we have separat bedrooms, no physical contact and he is talking about moving out. He always found reasons to delay the moving ( work load, kids school year coming to an end...) but now seems to really plan on moving. He is waiting for the apartment he wants to become available and is on the waiting list, it might happen next month. He also told the kids ( 12 and 15).While I think he had doubts at first, I think he knows what he wants now. Since about two weeks I assume that there is another woman involved, maybe only an emotional affair (I think she is out of town), but maybe I am just to naive and I think I don't want to know. After his initial talk I acted extremely loving and clingy. Looking back I realize off course I drove him further away. I then started reading a lot of books, including divorce remedy, gave him more space, tried not to push, but was still trying to fix marriage. ( following the marriage fitness program.). I also worked on getting my own life, started a class for work, and am running a lot, went out with friends occasionally. Now it seems like all attempts have failed. I am more willing to detach, but find it hard with the kids in the house. One question is: Should I still wear the ring? I feel like I should wear it for as long as we are married, but not sure what signal that sends. Other question is about doing house work. I have always been in charge of all the shopping, cooking, house cleaning, laundry and driving the kids. Last week I told him, that since we were not a couple anymore, but just housemates, he should do his part. It seems awkward to cook for me and the kids and then have him fix his own meals, so I suggested he could be in charge of dinner two days a week. He ended up getting take out once. But I am not sure if I should enforce it. I think I am just too nice. Sorry if this sounds very confused, I guess I lost a lot of time and it might be too late anyway.
Me 47,
H 52,
M17, T24,
S15, S12
Welcome to the Board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-64, D32,S31
Hi there,
Wearing the ring is a personal choice. Does your husband wear his? I took mine off after my W took hers off.
I wouldn't go out of my way to do anything "wife-like" for a man who doesn't want you.
In what other ways are you being too nice? What makes you think he has are not her woman in his life?
As for the apartment, my advice is to not bring it up or discuss it with him. Has he been mentioning it to you?
Thank you for your reply. My husband is not wearing the ring anymore. For the last couple of months he wore it, when he went to work, school events etc, where people knew him, but not in anonymous places. Now he does not wear it at all. He has mentioned the apartment to me and will call again this week to see if one is available for October. As for the other woman. Two weeks ago I went on an overnight camping trip with the boys. Since he did not really listen to me he assumed we would stay for two nights. We returned, when he was still at the gym. For some reason I went into our former office, that is now mainly his room and saw a parcel addressed to a woman that I do not know in a city that I know he has been traveling to for work.When he arrives home he is obviously upset, that we are there. I did not mention the packet. But when my son was in his room later that night he told me that dad had hidden a packet under his blanket. So, why this secrecy? Besides that he goes out on walks almost every night and denied my son to go along, or he is upset when I want to go running at the same time he goes out running. When he is running it seems he takes longer then he used to. He could be running longer distances now, but does not seem that exhausted when he comes home. I assume he talks to her on the phone. Also texting a lot, smiling at his phone. I could just check the phone bill, but have not done so yet. I have not mentioned my suspicion to him, but have made a remark like: I will have to go into your room later, so please hide anything you do not want me to see, so he might assume that I saw the parcel. He also has made no secret out of the fact, that he is looking for a new relationship. I just was hoping he would have the decency to at least wait until he has moved out. It makes me so disappointed, sad, mad at the same time. Just thinking, that I cook meals for him, do his laundry, while he pursues another woman drives me crazy. And he never ever says thank you or it tastes good anymore, which he has always done for the last 15 years. I feel so used. For the last two days I have taken off the ring, avoid talking to him and have been rather cold. I have reread the section about last resort in DR, but find it hard to find the balance between not chasing and not being cold.
My advice is if you are still married, wear your ring. People take their ring off so that others can see they are available. If you do not want to be available, and you want to save your marriage, then you should wear your ring NO MATTER WHAT YOUR SPOUSE DOES! This is not a tit-for-tat. This is about what is the right thing to do.
Just thinking, that I cook meals for him, do his laundry,
So stop. Don't cook for him anymore. Don't do his laundry. He has fired you from being his W (or is trying to) show him what it means to not have you as a wife.
but find it hard to find the balance between not chasing and not being cold.
We all do, What I suggest is that if you have to choose between the two, you lean towards being cold. But continue to work on it. Not chasing but being upbeat and friendly can coexist.
kiwi, it is never too late to DB. I just responded to another poster earlier today about this. The key is that DBing isn't to save your relationship, it is to save yourself. If you DB to save your MR you will fail. If you DB to save yourself you will succeed, and maybe a side benefit will be that you save your MR.
There is no magic bullet.
For some reason I went into our former office, that is now mainly his room and saw a parcel addressed to a woman that I do not know in a city that I know he has been traveling to for work.When he arrives home he is obviously upset, that we are there. I did not mention the packet. But when my son was in his room later that night he told me that dad had hidden a packet under his blanket. So, why this secrecy? Besides that he goes out on walks almost every night and denied my son to go along, or he is upset when I want to go running at the same time he goes out running. When he is running it seems he takes longer then he used to. He could be running longer distances now, but does not seem that exhausted when he comes home. I assume he talks to her on the phone. Also texting a lot, smiling at his phone. I could just check the phone bill, but have not done so yet.
You don't need to check the phone bill. He is clearly, obviously having an affair. Perhaps not physical but frankly it doesn't matter. He's in love with the idea of a new life with someone else and nothing you do right now will dissuade him.
I just was hoping he would have the decency to at least wait until he has moved out.
If you are expecting him to be good and decent then prepare to be constantly disappointed. No matter who he was before, right now he is a selfish lying cheater. That's what you are up against.
It makes me so disappointed, sad, mad at the same time. Just thinking, that I cook meals for him, do his laundry, while he pursues another woman drives me crazy.
He's more than happy to take advantage of that too. Like Steve said, stop doing it. Just tell him you're done being his caretaker given that he no longer wants to be married and is actively pursuing other women. He will of course deny, deny, deny. Just hold firm and tell him you don't believe him and from now on he needs to take care of himself.
And he never ever says thank you or it tastes good anymore, which he has always done for the last 15 years.
You old H is long gone. Like I said above, now you are married to a selfish lying cheater. Your old H may come back some day, but you've got a long road ahead of you with this interloper.
I feel so used. For the last two days I have taken off the ring, avoid talking to him and have been rather cold. I have reread the section about last resort in DR, but find it hard to find the balance between not chasing and not being cold.
Read Sandi's rules every day. They are all about LOVINGLY detaching. Detaching has nothing to do with being cold and indifferent.
When I read sitches like yours, I always think the same thing. This guy is going to come back some day begging you to give him another chance. Many men his age go through this phase (call it MLC or whatever) where they think they want something/ someone new and different and they walk away from everything they know. Most of the time their W begs and pleads for them to stay and that just drives them farther away because it reeks of desperation which is terribly unattractive. But eventually the W gets tired of the BS and tells him "you know what? If this is what you want then go have it and leave me the hell alone, because I deserve better." It is only THEN that he realizes what he's losing and takes stock of his situation. He's living in some small apartment somewhere, dating some shallow floozy (anyone willing to date a married man is a floozy IMO) that does nothing for him except maybe give him some hot sex now and then (hardly a basis for a lasting relationship), has lost half his income and all his family time and wow, this ain't so great after all. Then they go dragging back with their tail between their legs and more often than not the W no longer wants them because too much resentment has built up in the meantime.
Anyway be patient, detach, GAL, leave him to the mess he's making. Work on you.
Hi Kiwi,
I continued to wear my ring until I was handed divorce papers. I handed her my ring.
Another option I considered was wearing it until papers were signed and filed.
Bit of an old joke, but I've been thinking on getting mine sized bigger and wearing it on my middle finger. If someone asks why I'm wearing it on the "wrong" finger, I can reply, 'cause I married the wrong woman.
It's sad, but some of us hold our vows more seriously than others. Do what you feel is right. Dont let their pettiness pull you in.
Kiwi,
Ready2Change told me about your thread and I wanted to come over and give you some support. As a fellow W going through a separation with a cheating husband, I am lost, confused, unsure, anxious, all of the above. Which SHINES through in my threads because I am clearly all over the place.
But try to take the advice of the vets here, they know what theyre talking about. Last week I threw myself into this process and told myself I would stick to it no matter what. My husband and I were not working on our R, but he was living at home, coparenting, spending time together, etc. I knew he was cake eating but I figured having him here was better than not, even though everyday I felt I lost respect for myself more and more.
He was on his phone one night an awful lot and it made me extremely uncomfortable. I quickly signed on and asked for ANYONE to give me advice as to how to handle it. Ready2change said to ask him to see his phone, if he would not oblige then tell him I am not willing to live with a man who is clearly seeing another woman.
I walked right out to the living room, asked to see his phone, he refused, and I told him if he refused I assume there is another woman, and I would not live under the same roof with him if that is what he was choosing. He was SO angry with me, wouldnt show me his phone, said he wasnt speaking to anyone else and left. That night was awful, awful, he was so angry he continued texting me awful things and I truly felt like I made a mistake.
It has been a week since that night and yes, it has been hard, but I can tell you my respect for myself is much better. He was living here and we got along and it was very nice, but he was doing whatever he wanted, coming home when he pleased, I felt completely used. Now that hes out, yes emotionally im a bit of a mess, but he is making more of an effort to be at our home with our daughter and he is communicating with me on a coparenting level much better than before. No, it isnt making a change in our R, but it did get the point across to him that he needs to be an active part of this family or he will not be part of it at all.
I know aspects of our stories are different, BD for me was just shy of a year ago, I was 5 months pregnant at the time with our first child. BD was out of nowhere, "I dont want to be married anymore, I dont think I love you. I need to do things for myself, ive been doing everything for everyone else. Its time for me to live for me." I was dumbfounded. I found out about OW 3 months later. D was born in Feb and she is now 6 months old..
The fog is strong. STRONG. He has tried on and off to make it work, gave up, went back to OW, came back to us, tried to stay with us and keep OW, over and over and over. Its a rollercoaster for sure. And I am on it right along side you. It is not easy, and some days I truly feel like I could crumble to the ground, but it does help knowing there are others out there going through this.
It is SO hard to find a balance between being cold or being upbeat and possibly coming off as needy. I struggle with it daily. If I say this will he think this. If I do that will he assume this....It makes me crazy. But the vets have really tried to instill in me, it isnt about him. It isnt about his reactions to what I do. I need to do this FOR ME. I need to DB for ME. Not for him. Steve says something along the lines of "Set him free to get him back". Its terrifying, setting them free. But it seems like a must.
I hope we can help eachother through this with advice! I didnt mean to come on your thread just to tell my story, but I find that when someone in a similar sitch comments on my threads and tells me what has and hasnt worked for them, it is EXTREMELY helpful.
kech, thank you for taking your time to respond and sharing your story with me. It truly helps a lot to know, that we are not alone in our situations. I have also followed your thread, just not commenting. I think you are very brave to show your husband your boundaries the way you did. I hope it will work out for you in the end.
Thank you everyone for replying. It felt good to read your posts. cdn2a I like your joke. So, after thinking about the different replies , I decided to wear the ring until the end. I also read the lighthouse story and could identify with it a lot. As for doing the cooking, laundry and stuff I have not reached a conclusion and have to think it over rather then do one thing today and another tomorrow. My H is actively searching for apt now, as my S14 told me. So I am prepared or can prepare myself for that step and in some ways detaching will be much easier. I had some conversations with S14 over the week. He is struggling a lot with the situation. I told him I do not want the R to end, but dad wants, but dad told him the opposite, that I am so annoyed by him and do not want him anymore. That is so confusing for him. ( and for me). I told him that sometimes people interpret the same situation in different ways. I can not tell him, that his dad is lying. For the boys sake I do not think I want to exclude H from my cooking. I figure I can still detach. We have not talked much, only very few organizational things. I have been out for a birthday brunch today and been very busy with work this week.So I guess GAL is going ok. He goes out some times too but I do not ask where, neither does he. I keep my distance, but still want to be able to like the way I treat others, including H. After all I am a role model for the kids. Maybe I will have a talk with H, so he takes over more of responsibilities at home. I would not mind if he would fix dinner for a change. That would be a nice change.
My advice is if you are still married, wear your ring. People take their ring off so that others can see they are available. If you do not want to be available, and you want to save your marriage, then you should wear your ring NO MATTER WHAT YOUR SPOUSE DOES! This is not a tit-for-tat. This is about what is the right thing to do.
I have not seen my wife in more than a year now and I still regularly wear my ring. Not every day, but most times.
I am still emotionally attached and not ready for other women to approach me. Personally I see it as a sign of strength and commitment as well as self-protection to keep wearing it.
I think I would like to get some advice here on how to handle my H´s long distance EA. When he was taking a walk yesterday in the rain for no obvious reason, I was sure he did it to talk to the OW. I donor know how to deal with it. Do I let him know, that I know? Do I just ignore? Also I am still unsure about the house work issues. Should I just tell him to do his part under the current circumstances? Looks like he will be in the house for at least two more months. I did not know how hard it obviously is to find an ap in our area. I wish I was more detached instead of lying awake at night. At least it helps to know, that others are going through the same. Work week will be easier. I should start making plans for the next weekend
H just came home. I had not seen him since Sunday, since I leave for work early and he didi not come home until midnight yesterday, as S 14 says. I was hoping to be in my room when he comes home, but he came while was still saying son good night. I cannot even stand looking at him at the moment. I just said hi without even looking at him. I feel so betrayed, but need to deal with it in a more mature way, if he really plans on staying for 2 more months. At the moment I wish he would leave asap, Will go to meet up now and join some groups. I hate that I am avoiding him and hide in my own house. I should just look him in the eyes, because he is the one who has things to hide, not me. Today I do not feel like I ever would want him back.
My advice is to quit using your son to keep tabs on him, your H will figure that out and feel the pressure.
Detachment comes with time and work. It's not easy to let go of the person that you were so invested in. But you'll realize that you need to be the steady one who is not affected by the emotional ups and downs of your H.
As for handling the EA, I wouldn't confront him about it until you are ready to take action and stop being there for him.
I hope you keep posting. I know it's tough. Still trying to work the process myself, but sometimes it feels like it's sailed far beyond your grasp. I'm not saying hold out hope for your old relationship. Think of it as holding out hope for a new one. One where your a better version of you.
Update: I had a pretty good weekend. On Saturday i was out all day with S12. Had planned to go by myself and meet some colleagues, but was as good this way. GAL does not mean neglect the kids after all. You never know for how long they want to spent time with you. I also went running today and was very happy with my time. I plan on running a 10 k soon. All this running this year, at first out of frustration and now for fun made me quite fit. During the run I ran into H, who was out „running“ too, but was walking and talking on the phone, when I passed him from behind. I have to say, since I kind of knew this, it did not hurt anymore. More the opposite, now he definitely knows, that I know, without me having to say anything. It also helped with my house task problems. On Friday I did all of mine and the kids laundry and for the first time intentionally left his part out, although it was more work to sort through everything. I meant on telling him Friday night he could use the washing machine all weekend long, since I was done, but I chickened out until this morning. After the run, dinner question came up, and since everyone but him had leftovers from yesterday’s takeout, I told him that( he should have known, since we ate together yesterday, but who knows where his thoughts are). So he was a little annerved, but I said, well if you order something, you will have something for tomorrow as well. H: so I should fix my own meals all the time now. That is stupid. So he suggested to get/ make dinner on some days for all and me on other days, but when pressed on schedule he just came up with One day. So we see how that works. I then also told him, that we now would take turns house cleaning or he could use the basement bathroom and clean that himself. Well he does not want the basement bathroom and will clean next weekend. I am glad this is finally out, although I am not proud about the way it came out. I wish I had talked to him on Friday night properly instead of the way it was now kind of between two doors with maybe the boys listening, but I think they were busy with their video games, and we were not fighting or anything. I feel quite detached today, just not so sure about the lovingly part in it. Is that possible at all, to lovingly detach. For me I feel detached on some days, more and more recently, but at the same time the loving part seems to deminish. Just writing this, makes me sad.
So today H told me he will sign the lease for his apt on Monday and will move out in about 5 weeks. Since I knew it would be coming, I reacted cool and told him I was happy for him. Conversation went ok for a while, but I messed up and turned it towards divorce. Should not have done that. It’s always complicated, coming from a different country with different laws makes it more complicated,. If it comes to that,I want divorce in our home country, where we got married, since that would be financially more favorable for me, also there a one year separation is required. He wants it here, so he can date earlier. There is so much going on in my head at the moment. I haven’t cried yet, but will probably break down, once the lights are out. Well life goes on. Tomorrow I will go apple picking with the kids. There are a lot of good things in my life, that I can focus on.
Just two quick questions: 1. Do I ask him for the keys, when he moves out? The house belongs to both of us.
2. What do I/ the kids do on his moving day? Is it better for the boys to be around and help dad carry boxes, or better spend the weekend away and return to the house, when he is gone? Or should they spend the night at his place? Just too complicated. The worst part is thinking about the upcoming holiday season. It makes me so sad to know, that I will have to spend some of those special times without my boys. That does not seem fair.
Hi Kiwi.
So sorry to hear about what you are going through. This MLC or depression or whatever it is, is so darn hard. Excruciating, really. I don’t know what the “right” answer is to your questions. My H still has a key to our home because he hasn’t fully moved out and is not yet sure that is the direction he wants to go. He just knows he needs to be away right now. He is also spending a few days a week with our kids in our home as I have other things going on. However, he is aware on some level that he has lost the right to just come and go as he pleases. If he is coming by, he asks me if it is okay ahead of time. In your case, with your H signing a lease and moving boxes and the OW, I would probably ask for his key. The house may technically belong to him as well but he has made it clear he does not live there. Question #2... that is a tough one. My gut instint would be to make myself scarce. If my H ever decides to move out fully and head towards D, that is one move out day I would feel perfectly happy and justified to let him handle on his own. So I vote for taking off for the weekend. I think it will be easier on you in the long run. With respect to your boys, I would give them a choice about what they want to do. This is not just the break up of a marriage, your H is breaking up a family. I’m sure this move is not something they are happy about either. I would not subject them to it unless they want to be there. And your H would be a complete A** if he expected them to help. I think he has clearly lost that right.
So that is my two cents. If you can find posts by BluWave on here, I would read them. Her H took off for 10 months and then returned. I find her posts very helpful and reassuring. I KNOW how painful this is... how incredibly unfair. Stay focused on you... detach... GAL. I have my first “girls’ night” on Wednesday. My twin and I and a good friend are going out for dinner. We are going to make girls’ night a regular Wednesday night appointment. Prior to my H moving out, he and I had talked about making Wednesday our date night but that is kind of out the window now so I decided to make it my date night... with myself. He is going to be coming over every Wednesday after work to spend the evening with our kids...cook them dinner, monitor homework, put them to bed, etc... while I’m out with friends. I am so looking forward to it!! I’ve spent the majority of the last few years waiting for my husband to “get better” so we could get our life back. I’m not waiting any longer. He will do what he does and maybe there is an “us” at the end... time will tell. But in the meantime, I am getting myself together and finding out what makes DejaVu happy. Crazy as it sounds... despite my periodic meltdowns of terror... I am grateful that things have happened the way they have because at least I am no longer in limbo... I am moving forward with hopefully a minimal amount of backward steps. Keep posting. I think it helps immensely. ((((KIWI))))
Dejavu, thank you for your reply. I came to similar conclusions like your suggestions. I asked the boys about moving day and S12 says he wants to away, while S15 feels obliged to help( H had hernia done in may). I also decided I will ask him to not enter the house without my knowledge, kind of by appointment only. Glad you have your Wednesday. For me it is Thursday. We agreed that that would be the day he will have the boys in the future and also one of the days he cooks dinner now. Just Yesterday I had my first Pilates group. I am looking forward to doing it every week now and then coming home to a set dinner table at least for the next 4 weeks. With him cooking it is a funny feeling. It has never ever happened since our very first week or so. Now I insisted on him participating in household chores, so he cooks for all of us. On the one hand it is really hard for me to not help at all, when I hear him in the kitchen. And I have to confess it is kind of cute. Men in the kitchen are kind of attractive. Well I can’t have him, but at least the dinner.
So I have not posted in a while, but I am reading a lot here and it is just so helpful to read of others in similar situations. I had this week of. I was out a lot with the kids and with friends, but also took some time for myself. I felt I needed some time to grieve, just cry a bit and not always holding it back and being busy. So I grieved about everything we will be missing in the future, everything we have missed out on during the last year already and also beyond that. I stumbled over the sex starved marriage and I know that was one of our problems for years. I wish I had taken it more serious. We might be in a different place now. But I also acknowledge finally that I was also partly unhappy in the marriage for a long time due to him always prioritizing work over family or me. We really needed change, just my understanding of change is different from his. In the meantime I have contacted some lawyers just to get some information. H might be filing soon and I want to be prepared. Some friends tell me to try and beat him, since it is an international D and the faster one decides where D would take place. For A while that put a lot of stress onto me, but for now I do not want D so I will not file. I hope we will be able to talk before anyone makes the move, but I guess it is not a good idea to bring the topic up from my side.
So I have four more weeks under one roof with him. Should I try to enjoy that time. We just had lunch in the kitchen together just the two of us. It’s very rare that it is just the two of us in the same room. We both kind of avoid it. We had a casual conversation mainly about the kids, some little logistics regarding splitting up all the utilities moving forward. Maybe I should not try to avoid him so much and instead be very pleasant. Maybe that will be more of a contrast then when he moves out. But I might come across as pursuing?
Hi Kiwi, sorry and glad you are here
Take your time to read what you’ve got, keep posting, Detach, GAL. Be there for your Ss, they need your support.
As Cadet’s wrote in his first post, use your time wisely.
All my best wishes for you and your family
Journaling: My GAL is going well. Today I went hiking with a meet up group for the first time and enjoyed myself. Yesterday I went to the pumpkin patch with S12 and his friend and Friday we met friends in the city. So far so good. The detaching part is so much harder. Today suddenly H was super friendly wanted to help me fix a bike, I am not even using, got a tool to adjust the height, wanted to change tires... I know that does not change anything, he still will be moving out in 3 weeks, he still is looking for someone else, but it makes it so much harder to distance for me. So I went out running to get a grip on my sentimentality.
Hi Kiwi.
My heart goes out to you. Figuring out how to act around our H’s is so difficult. My H has been really friendly lately too. He even stopped by on the weekend for no apparent reason. Maybe to see the kids? Not sure. We chatted as if things were completely normal...shared a glass of wine. Mostly it was okay but there were a few times when I was screaming at him in my head... “This is so stupid!!! There is nothing about our relationship that isn’t fixable and we have two amazing reasons [our kids] to give it everything we have!! Come home and stop being such an idiot!!!” But I don’t... I just smile and carry on as if all is good. Although I really, really hate it that my H is living elsewhere, in some ways it is easier. I think if he was here, I would be walking around on egg shells and really not get a break from the uneasy, confused feeling I usually have when he is around. So maybe you will find the same bit of relief once your H moves out. I know it may feel like the “end” when he does go and it could be... but it could also be the beginning... of something even better. Just keep doing what you are doing and trust that there are lots of great days ahead of you and some wonderful new memeories to be made. (((Hugs)))
Thank you Dejavu, you are right.although it will be a horrible day, when he moves out, in some ways I am looking forward to it. First it will be just more relaxing. Also the way things are our R will not improve. I think we need the S at the moment, maybe permanently, maybe another chance arises.
There is nothing about our relationship that isn’t fixable and we have two amazing reasons [our kids] to give it everything we have!! Come home and stop being such an idiot!!!”
The problem is that they think they have tried everything (or use that as an excuse) and/or are being selfish. Their pride and ego would be dented if they returned and they may also think you'd never forgive them anyway, and it would be the same as it was so it isn't worth their effort.
Sorry for the long breaks, while I read here every night, I am usually too tired to write. I am still working on GAL and detaching. My life is busy, which is good. Our conversations have been down to a minimum, but last Saturday we had Areal conversation again, several in fact, talked about some personal topics,but not relationship. Thefirst two initiated by him, then by me over dinner. Maybe it waswrong, but it felt good. Maybe he is more relaxed, after his moving out decision is made and feels less pressure.
Today I talked to lawyer. Very strange feeling sitting in that office talking about D. Kind of surreal. I still do not want to be the one to end everything, but have the feelings helps to know some facts. After our recent talks I am also more hopeful that we would be able to discuss D and agree on things. Atmosphere is at least less hostile. I will keep detaching.
Saturday we had Areal conversation again, several in fact, talked about some personal topics,but not relationship. Thefirst two initiated by him, then by me over dinner. Maybe it waswrong, but it felt good. Maybe he is more relaxed, after his moving out decision is made and feels less pressure.
I think if you walk away from an interaction and don't think to yourself "that made things worse", then it is a good interaction. Vets would probably say don't initiate, validate, don't add pressure. Which sounds like it is what you did.
I would love to have a proper conversation with H but think that we are still too emotional to do so we stick to safe topics.
Today I talked to lawyer. Very strange feeling sitting in that office talking about D. Kind of surreal. I still do not want to be the one to end everything, but have the feelings helps to know some facts.
You were right to do this. Always know your rights.
H continues to be nice, told me he would rather keep me on his health insurance plan instead of me getting the insurance through my job, since he was afraid I would be not well off with my plan. I felt like in some ways he still cares for me or at least feels responsible, which felt soooo good,but I tell myself it does not change anything in regards to relationship. I also feel I want to have my own health insurance, since it gives me some feeling of independence.
I am wonderin if in the future being friends might be possible, could I stand having friendship, if what I really want is love?
Meanwhile H is starting to pack up his things and that is really hard to watch. Moving day is still 3 weeks away and it will be a challenging time for everyone in the house. I have to keep calm and strong for the boys, but struggle with that sometimes.
H continues to be nice, told me he would rather keep me on his health insurance plan instead of me getting the insurance through my job, since he was afraid I would be not well off with my plan.
I can't remember if you went through the "you are the cause of everything that is wrong in my life" phase with your H, but if you didn't, believe me when I say nice is better. Still hurts (because it feels like they are soooo much happier now) but it is definitely better. Take it at face value. It could be because he feels guilty, because he is coming out of the fog, or because he is simply cake eating (he wants you to stay in limbo whilst he tries out his new life). Take the niceness - just don't have any expectations.
I am wonderin if in the future being friends might be possible, could I stand having friendship, if what I really want is love?
I think it is - but only when you stop wanting the other person to love you. Until then, it is friendly, but not friends as you will be both be very very careful with what you say. Friends can say anything to one without fear of hurting the other. Friends can take the p*** out of one another without the other one feeling insulted.
Meanwhile H is starting to pack up his things and that is really hard to watch. Moving day is still 3 weeks away and it will be a challenging time for everyone in the house. I have to keep calm and strong for the boys, but struggle with that sometimes.
I am sorry you are going through this. It hurts like hell. My H signed got the keys to his flat 3 weeks before he moved in. Little by little I saw bits of him leave the house, first his clothes, then his pre-me photos, then things we didn't use anymore (an old toaster, plates, glasses, half the alcohol cupboard, some side tables etc). The first time I went to his flat he had just bought paintings for the walls. All I could think was nothing says temporary like purchasing artwork. Like you, i tried to remain strong for the children - the girls and I even went with him to choose a sofa.
All I can say is it does get easier with time (as much as I hate people saying that to me).
I so know how you feel Kiwi. Like FS, I think we are also in similar sitchs with our H's moved out or in the process of moving out and being so nice to us. In some ways, I think it would be easier if my H was not nice. Easier for me to let him go.
There are still a lot of his things in our house but I have started to move his belongings aside to make more room for mine. If he notices, he hasn't said anything. He recently took his electric toothbrush which had been in our bathroom for six weeks. Don't know why but that really bothered me. Other things he has taken are items I might not have noticed if I hadn't been looking for them. When he takes something he thinks I will notice, he asks first. All in all, he has been very respectful and kind - more so then when he was living here when he basically just ignored me.
Ironically, my H sees more of our kids now than when he did when he was living with us. We have also talked more in the last seven weeks than we did in the last eight months. Tomorrow he is coming for dinner (mostly because it is convenient) and we are taking the kids trick or treating. Since there have been no permanent decisions made (and honestly I don't think he will make one unless I push it), we agreed that once in awhile it is good for our kids to spend time with us together - especially on special occasions like Hallowe'en, Christmas, birthdays, etc...
I am lucky in that my H found his place and secretly moved some of his things before I knew about it so, in a sense, the bandaid was ripped off pretty quickly once I was in the know and he could just go there without having to pretend anymore. I really feel for you having to have this move out day to "look forward" to. For me, it was the opposite with a number of "move back" days coming and going until I realized he was nowhere ready to return and if he did so, it would only be out of guilt and nothing more. As FS pointed out... his heart is in a box and he only really takes it out when he is with the kids. It is no longer accessible to me or to anyone else, for that matter.
Anyway... I wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and you are not alone. This is a crazy reality we are living in. Keep posting. (((HUGS)))
Thank you for your responses FS and Dejavus, yes FS he has blamed me for all his unhappiness and just the fact that he is willing to spend all this money on his own place, just to be away from me is so hard to digest for me. If he chooses to rather spend 2k every month then living with me, I must have been a horrible wife to him.
Also you are right with distinguishing between being friendly and being friends. We will see how it goes once he is out.
Holidays are a big issue for me too, Christmas being the toughest. I have the option of going to Europe to spend the holidays with my parents there. My inlaws live in the same area as my parents, so the kids could still spend time with both parts of the family separately. H will be on business trip there before Christmas anyway and would just stay a little longe if we would be there. He leaves the decision to me. The kids would love to go and it would probably be the easiest way for them for our first Christmas not as a couple. I think celebrating while I have thought about it as an option has never crossed Hs mind, so I rather don’t bring it up. I know it sounds crazy, but being with my parents over Christmas does not sound that attractive to me. We get along very well and I love them, but being with them without H seems harder then being all by myself. Maybe it is because they are no longer very fond of H. I know I need to change my perspective and should start looking forward to holidays, after all they are not dependent of me being with H.. sorry if this sounds confusing. That’s exactly what it feels like.
H just came home from his shopping trip at IKEA and brought me some liquorice Candy, my favorite. That’s nice, but I need to detach more. I did not ask a single question about his shopping. Too hard to even think about it. Detach, detach, detach. It also is a very quiet weekend. The first one in a while. I could use that and are finally reading just a book nothing DB related, but still being busy was easier.
The kids would love to go and it would probably be the easiest way for them for our first Christmas not as a couple. I think celebrating while I have thought about it as an option has never crossed Hs mind, so I rather don’t bring it up. I know it sounds crazy, but being with my parents over Christmas does not sound that attractive to me. We get along very well and I love them, but being with them without H seems harder then being all by myself. Maybe it is because they are no longer very fond of H.
Christmas is a horrible time to feel alone. If you can be with people who love you, then do. And like you said, it would be easier on the kids. Sometimes a distraction is necessary.
Maybe it is because they are no longer very fond of H.
If you don't want to hear your H being bad mouthed, explain to your parents before you go that you are there because you need time out from the madness of your sitch. What you are after is space to clear your head. If they can't give you this, then time with them is not a distraction. It is more of the same.
As unwanted as this journey is, you are on it, and this journey is about detaching so you can be a better you. You cannot detach if you allow people to fuel your anger.
I am trying not to think of Christmas. I have no idea what it is going to look like given that H’s mom lives with me. I know she will want to be with the grandkids. My sister and her H also come for Christmas and my H has avoided them like the plague. If I had to guess, he will want to be elsewhere. Not even going to think about where that might be. Personally, I would like to just skip it altogether.
DV6 and Kiwi
Who would you like to be with you on Christmas day? I know that we are supposed to think of others at such times, but we all have had a tough year and can be excused doing what we want for a change.
DV6 If you want to have your sister, then have your sister. If he uses that as his excuse to stay away, then that's what it is, an excuse. Don't try to please everyone and juggle everyone else's needs.
Presume that he isn't coming and plan what you want to do. The only important thing is that you and the kids have a good day. And that will happen irrespective of where he is and where you are.
Tell him what you have decided and let him make his choices.
For the last seven years we have had Hs family over for Christmas. We have the largest house, my family is on the other side of the world and, never having really celebrated Christmas growing up, I love having everyone around for Christmas. To me, it is what family is all about. I am not naive enough to think it will continue if we get D but I will crozs that bridge if I get to it.
I decided to host again this year and I am planning a NYE party (first in 12 years). H is welcome to join. He will be there Christmas but will prob have plans NYE.
I want him to join us but I no longer seek his permission re our family plans nor do I expect him to join us for them. If he doesnt join or if he is a miserable sh!t the entire time then that's on him.
So, guess am trying to say the same thing as Yorkie. DJV Spend Christmas the way YOU want to spend it. Dont worry about what your H is doing. Kiwi if you think seeing your parents Christmas will help you heal, then do it.
Thank you Yorkie & FS. You are totally right. I will just plan it like he isn’t coming. Thank you for the 2x4s. I think I will even plan a NYE party. Why not? I have a beautiful home so why not invite my friends to share it with me. I know for sure H will not want to come for that. He would feel too much like an outsider. But that’s okay. He can do his own thing.
Here's a quote for all of us
"Consult not your fears but your hopes and dreams.
Think not about your frustrations, but about your unfulfilled potential.
Concern yourself not with what you tried and failed in, but what it is still possible for you to do"
Thank you aYorkie, that is a wonderful thought. Thanks to all of you for your wisdom. So I decided to visit parents in Europe and am surprised that I am actually kind of looking forward to it, while before I was dreading the thought of the holidays. While there I will meet some longtime close friends and the kids are so excited. Just need to book the flights now.
Otherwise my feelings are spinning and I am mad at myself about how much I let H influence my mood and feelings. The weekend was almost to nice at home, he is looking at me, smiling, we actually played a round of ping pong together( ok I have to admit I initiated that) and were actually laughing. All this makes me feel good and I almost loose contact with reality, that he is moving out. But the signs are everywhere and I wonder how does this go together and I know I should not even wonder....then S15 says to me: I think dad does not really want a separation he told me he still wants to help you with the house, he just feels he needs to move out. That made me kind of mad. I don’t want someone who feels responsible for me, but someone who loves me! And that is obviously not what H wants, so I just need to get detached!!!....but still the friendliness is better than the cold we had before, even if it makes distancing harder
Another thought:Next Saturday Hwill get keys to his app and will set up furniture with S15 there. I am sure he will also show app to S12. The kids despite their dislike of separation are a little excited about the new place, kind of like a vacation home? I feel like I don’t even want to come near it. Did you guys visit their places? Do I say no, if he ever asks me to see it? Maybe I should go there to finally accept reality
I’ve been to my H’s place once. I will not go back. He got his place three months before I found out about it so it is like his mistress to me. His life there is completely separate from me so I won’t go near it. I totally get where you are coming from Kiwi.
One night before he MO H picked me up from the station. I asked him how the flat hunting was going (I knew he went to see 2 that day) and he said he was worried about the parking (he has a very big car). He then drove me around to look at the parking spaces. I pretended to be interested but inside all I could think was FFS you're taking me to look at car spaces.
He moved in on a Thursday. I didn't see it for about a week. I was shocked. It was filled with all our old furniture. In the cupboards were spare plates and cups that I had bought and he had taken. He had bought paintings and cushions and there were pictures of the children everywhere. There was also empty frames up which once held pictures of the two of us (he had taken the pictures of us out). He had bought little ornaments to put on the window shelves. All I could think was soft furnishings and picture frames. He was building a home. We talked about this once (about a month later) and he looked at me and said "what am I supposed to do".
I go round there to pick the kids up. I sit on the sofa and he makes me tea. I notice everything. A half drunk bottle of wine, the number of cups in the sink, the number of bowls, anything that he has bought that wasn't there before. I once saw a cup of black tea. When I said "when did you start drinking black tea" he replied that it was green tea, and he had always sometime drank it. I felt like an idiot as he was right, every now and then he drinks green tea. So, whilst I notice things, I try not to think about it. Cheesless tunnels.
I hate being there and avoid it like the plague.
Should you go. If you think you can handle it. It will hurt though.
I am wondering if I should ask H to make the move as soon and as quickly as possible. He stated before that he is so busy with work that he will nee another one or two weeks after he gets the keys this weekend before he can actually move. But since his furniture is delivered this Saturday I think it would be reasonable to move the essentials there over the weekend and move. He could still get the rest over a period of time. I just feel that everyone is dreading what is coming and it would be better to get it over with. S15 is struggling in school with focus and grades are going down and S12 is starting to talk about it more often. So one part in me wants to ask him to go leave already while the other part wants to cling to every day I can get with him.
Thanks to all of you for being here. It is really good to know, there are people out there who understand what I am going through.
Gosh Kiwi. That is really, really tough. I some ways, I feel a bit lucky that my H essentially moved before I knew about it. I don’t have any advice for you except to say that it is really up to you and what it is you feel you can handle. I can’t imagine how hard it must be watching all this go down. And your poor kids. Heartbreaking.
Keep DBing and GAL. I know how hard it is when you just want to crawl into bed and go to sleep but force yourself. Tomorrow I am going to a Rotary Club meeting as my sister has been suggesting I join and get involved with volunteering. They meet every week right after work on Wednesdays which is one of the days my H is supposed to be with the kids. Two birds, one stone. I get out of the house and I get to meet new people and do good for others. Looking forward to it.
Sending you a big (HUG) from across the pond.
Another thought:Next Saturday Hwill get keys to his app and will set up furniture with S15 there. I am sure he will also show app to S12. The kids despite their dislike of separation are a little excited about the new place, kind of like a vacation home? I feel like I don’t even want to come near it. Did you guys visit their places? Do I say no, if he ever asks me to see it? Maybe I should go there to finally accept reality
Yes I went. I think it's a good idea to go because it helps you to understand it's just a dwelling- 4 walls a roof and a floor. It's not a home.
It's weird, my ex has had her house for 3 or 4 years now and when I go over there it still just does not feel to me like she belongs there or like it's her "home". Hard to explain.
I am wondering if I should ask H to make the move as soon and as quickly as possible
I would not. Keep acting like it doesn't effect you one way or the other - that is what detaching is all about (I think). DjV will offer better advice in this area than me but answer any questions your kids have as honestly as you can without casting blame. When they are around try to send out vibes that you are ok (hard i know). They temp check too - and they mimic the temperature you and your H set. GAL with them where you can. This might be harder for you as your kids are teens and don't really want to GAL with their parents, but maybe go out for meals, go bowling, watch a game together. Show, with actions, not words, that you are there for them.
Is there a counsellor / form teacher you can talk to at their school?
Perfect advice FS. I could not have said it any better. The important thing is for your kids to know you are okay which means that they will be okay. Hard to do when you don't feel okay but it is important to try to fake it till you make it. (((HUGS)))
What a strange time. Today I had a good talk with the kids. Not quite what you advised, but I told them, that I could see how hard it must be for them to have the moving date coming closer and that I was feeling the same, that we all would be better, once we had a new routine.
I also had an interesting talk with H, where we agreed, that it would probably be best for everyone, if he moved out quickly. Maybe I was a little to open there. He then asked if it would be ok with me if he would still stop by in the evenings after his moving out. I was kind of confused and asked in return if then I should also come to his place, when he had the boys. He said he did not mind. I said, I was not even sure if I wanted to go to his place and that I had to think about that and jokingly said, this whole situation would be new to me. I also told him I did not want to keep him from being with the kids, but it would be strange if he stopped by every day, then he would not need to move out. He agreed and we kind of left the opportunity of flexibility. I then asked if he wanted to give up his keys and he said no he had not planned that, so I asked, if he then also wanted to give me his keys and he said he could do that, since he would have two sets. He said, that he would text before he would come and I joked, that yes he would have to ask before he came over, since I did not want him to find me in bed with someone else in the future. To which he responded laughing, then he would join. Very strange conversation, but kind of relaxed considering the topic. It is still so sad. We seem to be getting along so well.
Is there a counsellor / form teacher you can talk to at their school?[/quote]
Yes I emailed the guidance counselor / homeromm teachers of both of them.
You are also right about them mirroring and temp checking. But since H and I both get along ok at the moment, I hope that it helps for them.
So, S15 just told me H will be moving out this Sunday. Just played ping pong with boys, and try to keep myself busy. Otherwise I will be breaking down.need a poker face for the next 48 hours
Sorry Kiwi. I was spared this phase as my H moved out first and then I found out. It must be awful having this looming deadline. I really hope he figures out the grass isn't greener but that will likely take awhile as the newness of having his own place will keep his mind occupied for awhile. I'm having a rough afternoon too. It tells me I still have a VERY long way to go with regard to detaching. All it took was a text from H asking if I could take the kids somewhere instead of him because he is "pinched for time" and "timing is tight" for whatever it is he needs to do. Of course, I have NO idea what that is. It could be a dozen different things including that I know today is the deadline for him to get his marks in (he is a teacher). But of course my mind goes to the worst possible scenario... that he has a date or something. It could just as easily be a drink with a friend... an exercise class... whatever. I didn't ask though. Just told him I couldn't so he said he would make it work. I am going to try really hard to assume it is work-related. Of course, I texted my sister about my nauseous stomach and she told me it was probably my intuition. Great. That was NOT helpful. Anyway...just wanted to pop by and give you some support, not whine about my own sitch. Sending you (((HUGS)))) and hoping you can feel them where you are. You are not alone in this even though I know you feel it. Thinking of you....
Thank you dejavus, this is just too much for me. So I kept myself busy this afternoon installing my new printer. ( I am not a tech person at all, that was H area, but it was fairly straight forward and is working now. H was out, presumably getting stuff for his place but came home to make dinner, since Friday is his dinner day. S12 is out for a sleep over, S15 quickly went back to his video games. Can you believe it H Andy I sat and talked about god and the world for 2 hours, politics, society, the kids, his job.... It feels we have not hada conversation this good in years. Then he tells me his parents will invite me over for Christmas. ( Me and the kids will be at my parents house for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. He will have the kids at his parents for Boxing Day, which is still Christmas in Germany.) This is so confusing. So I asked him if he wanted me there and he said he would be fine with it. Also he suggested we could do something together as a family? For the last year he as all but insisted on doing things with the boys without me. What is this? I know at the moment there is no OW but I cannot do friendship because it will break my heart all over again if there will be O W in the future. He even suggested I should come to the gym with him....
I just don’t know what to do. Should I go along the friends path or tell him I cannot do friendship at the moment (but that would be Rtalk) or just distance myself? I am definitely not detached one little bit, but maybe I did not show.....
Sorry you are having a rough afternoon. Just the thought of an O W in the picture makes me sick. That is my worst nightmare at the moment. But being a teacher myself, I would just assume he is busy with the grades. I hope you have some fun plans for the weekend. Thank you for „listening“ just writing this helped to calm down a little bit.
Hmmm... this is a really tough question to answer Kiwi. On one hand, it is encouraging that he wants you to do family things... on the other, it feels like cake eating. I think it is good for your kids if you can do the holidays together without expectations. But it might be too soon? It is really up to you. I say give it a month of DBing and GAL and see how you feel then. I am sure that his parents would understand if you decided not to come.
It is nice you are talking about Christmas so you can prepare yourself. I have not brought it up with my H and I don’t plan on it. I know I will be at home with our kids and his mom and my sister and her husband at some point. Not sure what to do there as my H will not come near our home if they are there and even if he did, I am sure he would feel so uncomfortable he would want to leave pretty darn quick. My BIL is the person who figured out what he was doing and “outed” him so it is a really awkward situation. It is also one of the reasons my H would be discouraged from coming back home...feels like it is too big of a hill to climb given how close I am to my sister and her H. He is like a brother to me and best friends with my brother who is lukewarm on my H at the moment. Personally, I’d rather just skip Christmas altogether. Sadly my parents are both deceased. My father passed away in 2005 of pancreatic cancer. He was 66. My mom died last year on May 10th. She was 76. My sister told me recently she was very suspicious of my H. I hate that she died worrying about me and my marriage.
. Anyway... I digress.
I don’t know that you need to tell him that you can’t do friendship although some people on here might say different. When you have kids, I think you should try to be friendly but maybe pick and choose how. Take some space. Let him know you are not a solid plan B. That’s just my initial thought. I’m sure there are others on here who will have a different, more experienced, take on it. Bottom line is that it is your life and you get to choose. To me, it seems to me you can spend as much time with him as you want as long as you can do so with NO expectations. That is the hardest part. I’ve found that even when I don’t think I have expectations, my H does or says something that makes me realize I actually did.
Thank you for the good wishes. I am feeling better than I did earlier today. This is truly a rollercoaster ride. I used to like rollercoasters.
Hi Kiwi
. So I kept myself busy this afternoon installing my new printer. ( I am not a tech person at all, that was H area, but it was fairly straight forward and is working now.
Well done, the more you do for yourself, the more he will see that you are coping without him, but more importantly, the more self respect you will gain.
Should I go along the friends path or tell him I cannot do friendship at the moment (but that would be Rtalk) or just distance myself?
What you are essentially saying is that you want to give him an ultimatum. Ultimatums are just an extreme way of saying boundaries. And you can't have boundaries without stating consequences. If you truly believe friendship (pretend or not) is not possible, then you should tell him that. But be prepared for the consequences of 'well that's all I can offer for now'. Don't set boundaries/ultimatums unless you're willing to live with the consequences. If you can't live with the consequences he will lose respect for you. There is no true reconciliation without respect.
Like DjV, I would recommend just distancing yourself. Your H can't give you what you want right now. The friendly thing is [censored] but you will get through it. You are stronger than you think.
I know at the moment there is no OW but I cannot do friendship because it will break my heart all over again if there will be O W in the future.
Whether OW is a deal broker for you today, may be very different to whether it will be a deal breaker for you in the future. Even if there is not one now (and I believe you when you say there isn't one), there will be an OW at some point as your H tries his new life on for size. I thought it would be a deal breaker for me, but it hasn't been. I understand why he did (does?) it. And TBH, I think the shock of my finding out has had a worse effect on him than it has had on me. He looked like [censored] in the weeks following and it was after I found out that he started making a concerted effort to be nicer and around more.
Don't think about him being with another woman. It will drive you insane.
Thank you for your support FS and Djv. You helped me get back on track. Friday night was just such a lovely evening,Sounds cheesy, but if I had spend an evening like this with another guy, I would assume there is hope for more, but well it is probably because of all these years together. And you are right, he can not give me more then friendship at the moment, that is already so much more then we had over the last year. And I don’t think I want to loose that again, so no talks an consequences. I will see how the next weeks will go before I decide the Christmas question.
So I made it through day one of moving weekend. S15 and H were at his place all day. S15 went straight to his room afterwards and ito his video games. Must have been a strange feeling for him. I ran some errands, went running took a nice long bath and after S12 returned from play date watched a movie with him. Tomorrow morning I too will go on a hike with a meetup group. Looking forward to fresh air and exercise and maybe some nice conversations. I am dreading the afternoon/ evening though, when he will eventually leave. He will come back the next couple of days for more stuff, but he will leave for the night. How do you say good bye. Or do you not? I hope the kids won’t start crying, because then I will not be able to keep my face. I did a pretty good job with that today. Talking with him about how everything went at his place and the stuff he bought, like He was just a neighbor moving. One time I was getting a little sentimental, when I was talking about a silly shopping bag that I had almost lost, that was a present from a former class. As if loosing a shopping bag compares to loosing your husband of 18 years. But for a tiny moment I also had the feeling that he was getting teary. He was turning around and blowing his nose and had very tired eyes. I wish there were a medicine or drug that could suppress tears or better even feelings. I would just use it this one time.....
I also offered him to come for dinner Monday night, since he said he did not even have any groceries at his place yet and he will still have to get stuff from here anyway.Maybe I should not have done that. Well it is a learning curve.
So that was it. H is gone. A weekend I don’t want to repeat. When I came home from my hike they were all at his place. I walked into the closet and his half was completely empty, that’s when I allowed myself to break down for a while. Just at that moment a friend texted me to see how I was doing. God send. I then started reorganizing the closet, cleaning the house and felt a little better. In between H showed up a few times to get more things. The worst part was when he brought the boys home and they all were teary eyed. He stayed for a while, played with them and S12 totally broke down. We finally managed to bring him to bed and H practically stormed out of the house after saying good night to him. S15 told me H said he might move back 5 times over the last 3 days. I told him we will be fine anyway. Maybe we find out we are happier together or we find out we are happier apart. Life will be good. On the other hand S14 also told me H is applying for a job in CA.... which shows again. Don’t believe anything they say. Tomorrow is another day. Life will be good!
So sorry Kiwi. Your H stormed out because he was feeling the weight of his decision. Let him feel it. You take are of you and those beautiful boys of you. This is just one step closer to a better more fulfilling life - either with your H or without him. We cannot go back...only forward. My H still has a lot of stuff in our closet. I have moved it over and taken some more space. I have thought about packing it up for him but honestly, I want him to do it. All the other things he has moved, he has done covertly and over a long period of time. He needs to do it with all of us watching.
Love to you and your family. Tomorrow will be a brighter day. (((HUGS)))
What a long day. Obviously I did not sleep well to begin with. Then in the morning S12 was crying again and did not want to go to school. While I was still trying to get him ready, H showed up, since I have to leave for work earlier and he will continue to bring the boys to school on some days. Day at work stretched and had a hard time focusing. When I came home H was there again with boys but left almost immediately, which is good, because I am not even able to look at him at the moment. I was glad though he had spent some time with the boys. I think it is important for them too know, that he is still part of their life. I almost wanted to txt him and thank him for that, but now I don’t really feel like it anymore.
I have a little bit of a hard time with the boys telling me what H did and said. For them I know it is good to be open and I want to make sure, that I only say things to them, that I would be comfortable with them repeating to H, but I have to learn to stay neutral and calm when I get their reports. For example S15 told me he and H would be installing an old Soundsystem in the living room tomorrow when H would take his speakers to his place. And since I was tired and emotionally drained I snapped at S15 that it was my decision, which speakers would be installed at MY home and that was not H’ s decision anymore and he would have to ask first. I feel so bad now. I don’t want him to be in the position that he has to think what to say to whom before he talks. He should be comfortable to say anything on his mind. He then defended H, that he only meant it well, which I know is true. I will get better at it. This was only day one.
Don’t be too hard on yourself Kiwi. You are grieving...the last few days have been tough. It will get easier. The distance will help and I suspect it will help your H too but maybe not in the way he thinks. I slip up too sometimes. Today I was out with my kids walking our dog and our dog took a giant #2 on someone’s lawn. It was gross. So I got out my poo bag and my daughter said “you can just leave it mom...no one saw.” I said, “no it doesn’t work that way. That is something your dad would do but not me.” Without hesitation she says, “you know him so well.” To which I reply, “unfortunately, yes.” Ugh. She probably didn’t need to hear me being that negative about her dad. Anyway...it is a work in progress.
Yours is another sitch that I have more hope for than mine. I think your H will figure out that the grass is definitely not greener on the other side. I would not approach him about Thanksgiving or Christmas either. Let him be the one to approach you. I suspect that once the newness and novelty of it all has worn off, his apartment is going to start to feel pretty empty and lonely. He needs to feel that. Keep up with your GAL and DBing. I decided today that I am going to learn how to play the guitar. My H plays and I have always wanted to learn how but when I was younger, my parents bought a piano instead. My H is going to help me find one and then I will sign up for some lessons. Super excited about it.
H came over tonight to see the kids and get some more of his stuff, so we had dinner together. He talked a bit about work and it was going ok, until discussion came up about who would have the kids when. We had both made Personal plans for Sunday, we flipped coin and I lost, so I will have to cancel Part of Sunday plan, but what bugs me more is that he wants to go hiking with someone. First I wonder who that someone is and second it bugs me, because he never wanted to go hiking with me. That [censored] and I did not end the evening as composed and happy as I had wished, but said I had work to do and went into my room( well and my voice broke) . This your days/ my days stuff is complicated, At least we have the rest of the weekends divided for this year. So now I have Saturday for myself with no plans so far and Sunday plans don’t work out,
So now I have Saturday for myself with no plans so far and Sunday plans don’t work out,
If nothing pans out Saturday, go out and pamper yourself (facial, nails, massage). You will be surprised how much better you feel after. Also, go buy a good book (The art of not giving a [censored] is an excellent read) and sit in a coffee shop. It will seem weird at first, but it gets you out of the house. The emptiness is overwhelming the first few times the kids are away, but eventually, you will learn to love the quietness of it and the fact that you can do whatever the [censored] you like (stay in your PJs and watch rubbish telly, dance around the kitchen in your underpants, whatever). The time is yours and no-one is going to tell you how to spend it.
So it has been almost two weeks since H moved out. I hated it when people said: you will get used to the new normal. I don’t want this to be normal. It is not normal when you are left behind by the person you could trust more then anyone else. But alas, reality is sinking in, we are getting into a kind of normal, which is not the normal I wanted, but I guess we need some normal. I also realized that Probably to H’s friendly behavior the last couple of weeks, I had too much hope, I guess even expectations. Now I am realizing, that this is most likely the end. He is going out a lot. On Wednesday he did not reply to S12 good night txt, so I assume he was out. And today he is invited to dinner he mentioned, I assume with a female, which he had made clear was his goal. Maybe I just did not expect it would be so soon. It hurts a lot.I feel like I should just give him up, so the pain will be less. He also has made it clear that he will file for D as soon as he finds the time. So I better be prepared. Considering all this I took of my ring yesterday and bought myself a new ring today. Not sure yet which ring to wear to school on Monday though.
Since H has the boys on a Thursday’s we agreed he would have them for a thanksgiving as well, but I invited them over for dinner, but probably would not do that again. We talked superficially and it felt wrong, when they all left for the night. The worst part was, when aI packed him leftovers for the next night and he mentioned his dinner invitation. I almost packed everything back. Well, that was the last time it happened. At the moment I also fell like I will not go to his parents for Christmas, should they invite. It feels just fake.
Hi Kiwi. It’s been awhile. I was thinking about you and wondering how you are doing. I am glad you posted again but not glad to hear about your new normal. You and I are in similar sitchs, no doubt. The new normal is not the normal I ever wanted to be in. But...nothing we can do about it. I think giving up is the key to start to find ourselves again. If only we could just flip a switch. But it doesn’t work that way. We have to go through this pain to get to the other side. My H is on the mainland. At a rehearsal with his buddies tonight and going to a high school football game tomorrow. In the 13 years we were together, my H did not go to one sports event at any of the schools he taught unless they were during school hours. This is the second game he has attended in as many weeks.
I struggle with the ring issue too. I haven’t taken mine off since we said “I do”. I feel like I should but haven’t been able to bring myself to do it. I know my H would like it if I would. He is gearing up for the beginning of the legal end of our marriage. He can’t file for divorce yet but he wants to separate our finances anyway. That is going to be a lot trickier and a lot more costly for both of us than he realizes even if we go through a mediator. We were home free financially before and now we will both be back living pay cheque to pay cheque. He has never handled our finances so he has no idea. He will find out soon enough though.
Hang in there Kiwi. Focus on you as much as you can. Your H is experiencing the newness of being out on his own and in his new place. He will be distracted for awhile. Eventually what is new will become old and he will start to look back a bit. Hopefully what he will see is someone who is doing well and feeling good about herself. You can do this. You HAVE to do this. I KNOW the kind of pain you are talking about. It is excruciating at times. It will get less so over time. Big (((HUGS))) to you.
Today was a very sad day. There is this big heavy sadness inside me, that makes it so hard to do things, I should have cleaned the house or worked for school, but it costs so much energy. I am not even in the mood to read a book. I feel like I have to realize that this really is the end. And worse, I am wondering if H is right, that maybe our R would never have been happy. Just read an article about why couples stay in unhealthy relationships for to long, basically out of fear for the unknown. I am wondering if that was my motivation to stay. I definitely was not always happy, with H always working and barely spending time with the family or me. For years I have collected hike suggestions from the newspaper, all collected in a binder and maybe once a year we would all go on a hike, maybe in between I would go on a hike with the increasingly reluctant boys, we almost never went on a family vacation, maybe a few days once a year, otherwise he was to busy. On weekends I would sit on the sofa by myself most of the time while he was working on his desk. It feels like I have been waiting for him to have time for quite sometime. But I stayed, maybe I settled, because he is a good person, I could trust him and when we did things together we had fun. But still I miss him.
Today my mother in law called. H had already told me that she would invite me to celebrate the second Christmas Day with them. While I initially thought that that would be nice, I was not so sure about it anymore after a Thanksgiving and my realization that H is most likely dating already. I don’t want to be wife No 2 . I had hoped to be able to think about the invitation a little longer, but since MIL called today I told her I would not come, not without getting a little teary. She also asked if I would organize the kids presents for them like every year but I told her H should do that now. I feel bad for her and I will try to visit them after the holidays while I am still in Germany, but it felt like the right choice, I cannot celebrate Christmas with him and his family like everything is normal and the next day he goes out with another woman and will probably file for D a few weeks later. I just have to tell H about my decision. He is traveling for work at the moment. Maybe will email him within the next few days.
Tomorrow I will go to the city with the boys. I hope it will be fun.
Kiwi... my heart breaks for you. I so know what you are saying. My H was absent as well. I was always taking care of the home and waiting for him. He was out doing what he wanted and when he was home, he was immersed in his hobbies. I was always last on the priority list. Strangely, I eventually just got used to it or made excuses in my mind. But when he did make time for me and we went out, like you, we laughed and enjoyed being together. He cannot seem to recall those times now. He also feels like he “tried”. I’m not sure when that was.
I still have no idea what Christmas is going to look like. I suspect he will come over in the morning to open presents with the kids but then disappear later on before my sister and her H arrive. We are going to have to have a conversation about it soon. The kids birthday is coming up too. His mom’s birthday as well. Last year we all went out for dinner. Don’t think that is happening this year.
I hope you have a great time with your boys. Give yourself permission to forget about your H for awhile. Don’t let your mind start making up dating scenarios. As they say on the board, it’s a cheeseless tunnel.
Kiwi - I can identify with what you’re saying. In fact I just wrote in my journal “So sad that the relationship I hoped that I would always have will not happen. All I ever wanted was for him to love me. Holding on, all this time, waiting”.
I’m sorry for your pain & I’m sending you a big hug 🤗.
Hi Kiwi. Haven’t heard from you in awhile and just checking in to see how you are doing. I hope that you not posting is because you are too busy GAL and that you are doing well. (((HUGS)))