HI Everyone. Brand new here but have been reading for 2 months. Been married for 6.5 years. have 2 kids 6 and 2. Found out in Dec 2016 wife was having an affair with a Sheriff. She told me she wanted to work on it. We went through all the Christmas stuff but I was too hurt and she didn't want to do counseling. She told me it was only emotional. In January I find out it was physical and going on for 9 months. She had been rebellious and secretive. Attacking me about everything for months. She told me he was her shining star, etc. She treated me terribly after this and said she wished she would have taken it to the grave. Turns out her mother told her she had an affair on her step father when they were young and just disclosed this to her at the same time this affair started.
Anyways she was pretty mad I didn't keep it a secret. And we went on for about 6 weeks where she wouldn't go to counseling. We went to 2 sessions and then did a private session. She said after the private session that she didn't want to go anymore. Her mother told me because the counselor told her it wouldn't be the best choice for the children.
I asked her to be open about where she was going and to clean up her social media. But then later I got upset and said I wanted a divorce and she agreed. We went about 2-3 weeks planning everything and then I woke up one morning and felt this new found energy. I text her and asked if she wanted to still divorce and she said yes. I told her I cant change your mind but you wont change my values. And I left it at that. Ever since I have been sticking to Sandi's list of ways to handle WW. She told me she wanted to now pause on selling our properties. But hasn't said she wants to work on it. I don't think she is still seeing the other man now. I can just tell because she is not dressing up as much or going out. But she probably still thinks about it. Whenever she talks she tries to make it a point that she is staying at her mothers and to call her anytime for help with the kids on my night.
Do I continue to treat her as WW? I feel like it is working. I am actually moving into our apartment building soon. She bought me lunch the other day. I don't know what to do. I don't really want her back like this, I really want some kind of serious apology and the offer to do counseling. But I haven't seen her hit any kind of wall or low point. I think she is getting overwhelmed by finances. She had no idea how much I did. I was not appreciated.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks Cadet, I bought the book already and it's in thenmail. Wish it was audio though!
Hello 75Shade,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Why are you moving to an apartment if you don't want to divorce? Focus all of your time, effort and energy into being the best 75Shade and Dad that only a fool would leave. Do it for yourself and your precious kiddos.
Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.
Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
The problem has been that she makes herself difficult to deal with if I stay
Home.
Do I continue to treat her as WW? I feel like it is working. I am actually moving into our apartment building soon. She bought me lunch the other day. I don't know what to do. I don't really want her back like this, I really want some kind of serious apology and the offer to do counseling. But I haven't seen her hit any kind of wall or low point. I think she is getting overwhelmed by finances. She had no idea how much I did. I was not appreciated.
This is not something that gets FIXED overnight.
I sense you dont have much patience.
Is this true?
DB101 = Patience.
What everyone will tell you now is to focus on you. She is now on her own path. You cannot control her. All you can control is yourself.
Can you share a bit more about what led up to the BD? What was your R like in the earluy days, and what was it like more recently?
Follow Sandi's rules.
Work out what you want to do about you? What improvements can you make. Were there any valid issues buried in the complaints from your wife? Can you work on those.
What sort of GAL activities do you have? Do you want to try some new ones?
What sort of father are you? Hands on, or working hard and struggling to see the kids enough (like me)
You have to be the best you and the best dad you can be. A wayward spouse is very often unstable. You will have to be the rock for your children.
Nothing you have said or done cannot be undone.
What do you want? If you don't want to divorce her, then don't do anything to progress it. Let your wife do the work.
If you don't want to move out - say you have changed your mind.
Your wife is not the person she was before. Your marriage as it was before is now over. It *may* be possible to build a new relationship and new marriage with your wife.
There are no instant fixes. As Cadet says, patience is the key. There are people on this forum who have been here years. You will soon be into months of hard work. And it is hard work.
You will get lots of good advice. Follow it if you can.
Cadet, I am terribly impatient and she is maybe just a little less. I just couldn't handle the emotional abuse around the children. Our house is very small.
Something I am working on
Woke_up,
She says that I dont nurture relationships. I wasn't involved enough in things she wanted to do. I was working alot like 60+ hrs a week. She said we lost our connection, she things I am too black and white with my values. The last year she was really critical of me. But always trying to get me to do social things and I was burned out. Perfect storm.
I felt like we were super close before the kids came. Things got really hard for her. She said she felt like a single mom.
Im a good dad, I take the kids to church on sundays now and swim. I setup most of their activities. But its not a fair comparison. My wife only works 20-25 hrs a week. I pay for most things.
I am not chasing really but I have crossed thenline a little by telling her I didnt want the divorce. That Infelt guilty.
I go to thengym now 4 days a week, spend time with friends and do counseing. Just starting to branch out my interpersonal relationships. Othrwise trying to be a better dad. I quit all my extr work. Down to at most 50 hrs a week and getting more sleep.
Im worried that if Inchange the plan and stay home on the couch she will respond like I am trying to cornernor control her.
7-year itch. How many of us had things start to unravel at the 7 year mark? I bet a lot!
Truth is, you can't take her back until she is ready to fully change and recognize what she's done to you. honestly, you don't want her back until that happens...
You need to focus on you until she has proven (actions, not just words) that she is ready to really try and make things work. That starts with intensive counseling with a good counselor; one that supports marriage and applies MWD's and Gottman's principles.
Until then, you do you, man. setting boundaries will get you respect back faster than anything I know of. It gets worse before it gets better, but boundaries work.
Hi Shade, just saw your thread and read about your situation. What are the ages of you and W?
I am a little confused about the current living arrangements, and her offer to help with kids on "your nights". Are you under the same roof?
Is she under the impression you will be moving out?
I don't know what to do. I don't really want her back like this, I really want some kind of serious apology and the offer to do counseling. But I haven't seen her hit any kind of wall or low point. I think she is getting overwhelmed by finances. She had no idea how much I did. I was not appreciated.
I assume you mean you do not want to just act as if the two of you resume the MR where you left off. I don't blame you. Letting a wayward back into the MR without serious work and commitment, is a grave mistake, IMHO. Based on what I have observed for many years, the majority of spouses who were wayward had
rather return to the MR and act as if nothing ever happened. This is the easy way out for them. Whenever dirt is swept under the rug, you still have the dirt. IMHO, agreeing on the terms of reconciliation is extremely important, and implementing them is critical.
She may not feel remorse for a long time. I think a lot depends of how much resentment and disrespect she has for you. And of course, she has to get the OM completely out of her head, before her loving feelings for you really start to kick in again.
What I believe is most important and will open the door for remorse, an apology, counseling, etc., is her
willingness. Without her willingness, you've got nothing! She may not feel what either of you want her to feel. She may not
want to do counseling, or whatever is required..............that's okay. She doesn't have to like it or want it. But is she willing, anyway? That is the key. I have often said about myself, that I had to just be willing......to be willing!
All stipulations should be revealed when discussing reconciliation. Know what changes you want, what you are willing to do, and what you expect from her. She has the same right to give her stipulations, as well. Btw, agreeing to see a therapist experienced in couples healing from affairs, would need to top the list.
Let me point out something about these things you would want.............do not start telling her these things, if she has not even broached the subject of reconciling. I get amazed at H's who practically repeat what he's read off the DB board, and she's not even interested in getting back with him.
Do you continue to treat her as a WW? As long as she is wayward, then I would say so. I think most H's misread his wayward W's actions, which is understandable. So, don't try to attach certain meanings to asking you to lunch, or postponing property sale, etc. You need to be stable, and learn to have patients, b/c this will not be fixed quickly.
I really need to hear more about the MR.
Mowgli, Im not implying she want to reckncile really. I am just saying she has softened up tremendously. She always makes it anpoint to tell me where she is when we are not together....maybe trying to buiild some level of trust.
I am not ready to take her back. I am not ready. The only thing I am open arms to is professional help.
She is always in communication now which is different and she responds quickly to anything I text her regarding plans or kids... but Indont want to brainwash myself into thinking its more than it is.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Sandi2, I am 42 and she is 38.
So we take turns living at the house. We almost act like being divorced. Every other weekend we stay there and then we each get a couple daysnduring the week. I stay at my mothers on off nights and she stays at hers.
I dont think she is seeing the other guy. She is embarrassed and ashamed. He is a sheriff and I dont think he wants the attention. Everyone knows us.
She is under the impression that Inam working on moving out. I was tired of the emotional abuse. She was trying to hurt me to free herself I think.
I have pretty much quit talking about things in the relationship. Indid tell her a couple weeks ago that if she wants a divorce which she said yes that I wouldnt want the same. I told her I cant change her mind. She changed after I said that..... she isnt talking with certain and uses maybe in respect to our future..
Indont know if she is wayward. I don't think she is. Inthink she is ashamed and lost her connection. She told me the other day she slaps herself to wake up. She knows I am a good guy but cant go back. Indidnt know what to say. So I didnt say anything
75Shade,
What if you went radio silent with her, except for kid-related stuff?
I mean NO communication. Read up on 'going dark'.
If she's communicating with you, she's trying to pull you back in, to keep you as a plan B. At least it's happened to others, including myself. It was all a red herring... she made her decision, and wasn't going to let plan B moving on from stopping her.
Even if the affair is over, she will need time to realize her actions have consequences, as well as going through withdrawl from him, which could take months.
I know you want hours or days, not weeks or months. But it will take that long.
Without her complete willingness to do counseling, even on her own, you have nothing I'm afraid.
The biggest challenge of you life (quite possibly) lays in front of you. Going it alone for a while. Let her stew and agonize while you figure you yourself. Your rollercoaster will continue - so exercise, get rest, eat right, and spend time with your kids if you have any.
Many of us have gone through what you are going through. Mowgli, me, Jeep, all good peeps who have seen the bad movie play out over these forums time and time again. Trust Sandi's advice - she is the matriarch of these forums.
Keep posting - it will help. We're here for you.
Trumpet, its really hard to be dark with a 2 and 5 year old. Child care and arrangements are alot of work. Otherwise I am dark.
Like I said almost all communication is about the kids.
I'm just trying to figure out if I should move out. Or stay. I have an apartment that I own coming available. She thinks Im moving in because we both agreed to a divorce. Since then we have really chilled on the divorce talk. I want to just stay and not leave. But How do you go dark under the same roof? That seems ineffective to me. Im stuck at a crossroads.
I'm just trying to figure out if I should move out. Or stay. I have an apartment that I own coming available. She thinks Im moving in because we both agreed to a divorce. Since then we have really chilled on the divorce talk. I want to just stay and not leave. But How do you go dark under the same roof? That seems ineffective to me. Im stuck at a crossroads.
Standard advice here is not to move out.
Not sure why you should be any different.
Let her move out.
One of the biggest mistakes you can make in a divorce proceeding is
to move out.
I want to just stay and not leave.
If you want to stay...stay.
Why do you think she is embarrassed and ashamed?
I suggest that what you have seen as softening in your W, is due to the fact the fighting has ceased and you are not pressuring her to change her mind........ and she thinks you are moving out and she'll have the house. Also, she could sense you pulling away, and her basic instinct is to pull you back. This is not unusual responses for someone who believes they are getting what they want, without fighting tooth & nail to get it. It is very common for a wayward wife to use her H as a backup plan......just in case things with OM doesn't work out, or if she can't make it on her own. These are negatives that may first appear as small positive signs to the hopeful H.
I base this opinion more on common behaviors seen in this type of stitch, and not neccessarily just yours. I could be wrong about yours.......and I hope I am. It would be helpful to know how she treated you before engaging in an affair. Did she openly show signs of disrespect for you, through her speech and tone of voice, facial expressions and posturing, put downs, defiance, etc.?
IMHO, I think you should remain in the home.
Sandi2,
Im not positive she is embarrassed or ashamed but knowing her she likes to portray she is perfect.
I am pretty sure it started about 3 months into her emotional affair. I don't remember having any major issues of fallout and disrespect till recently. Just issues with me not spending enough time on her social events. She really got mean about4 months before I caught her. Her aunt and cousins said she was mean to me at family events. Critical and Judgemental. And she always tried to accuse me of lying, and tried to get me to go out with my friends when she was going out. Like she wanted me to have an affair.
I read what you wrote on another thread about how a man should never give ip the marital bed or home. Stand my ground. Is there other reasons besides that?
I was thinking if she leaves then she has to get stuck portraying that to the children. I really feel like I am accepting the burden of her behavior. It feels wrong.
about how a man should never give ip the marital bed or home. Stand my ground. Is there other reasons besides that?
Because it the marital bed - the bed shared by you two as a married couple. By choosing to leave the marriage, she is also leaving the marital bed. You, however, did not leave the marriage and should not leave the room.
about how a man should never give ip the marital bed or home. Stand my ground. Is there other reasons besides that?
Because it the marital bed - the bed shared by you two as a married couple. By choosing to leave the marriage, she is also leaving the marital bed. You, however, did not leave the marriage and should not leave the room.
There are legal reasons too.
Consult a lawyer before you do it.
I understand the symbolism of the marital bed. But what does it matter to a WW? It seems no different than me trying to shove the wedding vows in her face... Is it a battle that will ever lead to success? Or is it just putting pressure on them, warning respect?
Heck, I am not even wearing my wedding ring, should I be? Does that have the same symbolic affect?
I also want to say that I called a DB counselor to try and get some direction. I feel guilty that I wasnt more patient. They told me I should sit down with her and offer an opportunity to give her opinion of a parrnting plan for the kids while Inam living elsewhere. Make her opinion feel valued... and then end the conversation and report back. Im a bit scared to do this.
Hi 75,
Sorry you are here buddy. This is tough road you find yourself on. But you can come out the other side of this as a better person. It will take a lot of work but if you do it, you will be a better man for it.
If your W is not apologizing, expressing remorse or asking to go to MC, then she IS a WW. It doesn't matter if she is still seeing OM or not. She still has the WW mindset. She has got to hit rock bottom before she can begin to come out of her fog.
Do not leave the house. If it comes to D, this could be seen as abandonment with the kids and you don't want that. Do NOT leave the house and in fact, get your butt back in the MBR. SHE is the one that stepped outside of the M so let her be the one to move out or sleep on the couch. You may not have been the perfect husband but you have done nothing that should see you leaving the MBR or your house. Your W may lose her mind and go ballistic on you when you tell her you are not leaving the house and when you start sleeping in the MBR but tough. That's her problem. She can leave it she doesn't like it.
You can not do ANYTHING that will make things easier on her. Let her sit in the $h!t pile that SHE created.
Next, you have to start working on you. You've already identified a few things you need to work on and I already see you taking positive steps (cutting back on work, GAL). Become the best 75 you can be and knock it out of the park when it comes to being a Dad.
Your W was not happy about something in your M that made her decide that having an A was a good idea. That stuff has to be fixed. You can begin working on fixing those things even while she is wayward. Even if she moves out, there will be times that you will have to interact with her and she WILL see the new you IF you do the work to make changes in your life.
I recommend you get a consult with an attorney so that you know what your rights are. Also consider separating your finances. Dont "steal" from the family pot but from this point forward, you should look to protect yourself financially. Get advice from the attorney on this too.
Do you know if OM is M?
LiM, thanks for the support. She apologized a couple times but I think it was more like pity because at one point I was depressed about the kids. Im not sure, she has never been good at apologies.
But for sure she has said she wants a D but so have I. No one has filed. I feel like its all about $$$. . Timing isnt right..
The other man was single. A friend of a friend and a Sheriff...
My mother keeps helping with the kids when they are sick. It drives me crazy. Enabler..
I want to make it clear to everyone. I don't want a divorce. I was fear talking in the past. I've hardened substantially since then. I've made some strategic mistakes because I didn't do any homework. It caught me off guard like lightning strike.
Just slow things down. Take your time and put your focus on you. You need to emotionally detach from her and not let her turn your life upside down. Take a deep breath. Try to relax.
When you are around her, be upbeat and positive even though you are hurting on the inside. Dont let her pull you into her mess. Learn to be OK on your own.
LiM , thanks I will work on that. This actually feels good. I feel like I really lost myself the last couple years. Confident composed
Im not positive she is embarrassed or ashamed but knowing her she likes to portray she is perfect.
Does she shift blame or own her mistakes?
I read what you wrote on another thread about how a man should never give ip the marital bed or home. Stand my ground. Is there other reasons besides that?
Well first let me say it is all about what the marital bedroom
symbolizes.......and most important when there are children in the home. Once a man has his own family living under his roof, he and his W need to establish a healthy, secure, and loving environment for their family unit. He and his W are more than friends, and they are more than partners. They are symbolically united as one. (I won't go into the religious aspects). It is the responsibility of these two adults to nourish and protect their union. As their children are born from that union, the greater the responsibility of provision, protection, teaching and leadership from the two adults.
Instead of calling it the master bedroom, think of it as the marital bedroom and the marital bed. The marital bedroom usually reflects the health of the union. The children will grow up seeing the symbolic union/bonding that is the foundation for their security and the family structure. If one spouse no longer wishes to be a part of that physical and/or marital union, then
that spouse should be the one to leave the MBR and make other sleeping arrangements........or living arrangements. The spouse who wants to stand for the M, should remain in the MBR. In doing so, it makes a powerful statement; demonstrates inner strength;, offers emotional security to his children; and is a life teaching illustration. The children watch living examples that affect their own future MR's.
Standing on your spiritual beliefs, morals, principles, etc.......is like shining a bright light for the wayward. The message to the wayward spouse is loud and clear. This bedroom represents your wedding vows. It must be honored.
Now, it's not always that easy, and we have seen some wayward wives go for blood in claiming their reign over the MBR, b/c they have a large sense of entitlement......and b/c they aren't called wayward for nothing! I do not encourage any type of physical force. Children should never witness their parents in a screaming match. There are some situations where physical separation is necessary, especially if there is any form of violence.....or accusations of you doing something (that you know otherwise is untrue) can lead to trumped up legal charges.
It is disturbing to read about men sleeping on the floor, in their kids bunk beds, or going to the basement. It may be a very nice basement, IDK. Like I said at the start, it is the symbolic reflection.
Sandi2, well she says she was wrong for having an affair but then she says we were broken. She says she should have broken things off before. She justifies her behavior by saying that it was inevitable so its ok.
Right now I sleep in our bed 3-4 days a week every other week. Now I just need to figure out how to strategize popping up in the bed on her nights..... avoid conflict and keep cool..
But I shouldn't believe what she says and only half of what she does.
Now I just need to figure out how to strategize popping up in the bed on her nights..... avoid conflict and keep cool..
75Shade,
Go to bed before your wife and when she arrives she has two choices, she can try to physically remove you or she can go sleep somewhere else. She'll try everything, including guilt, to get you out of that bed. Just ignore her like you would a two year old having a tantrum.
She'll try everything, including guilt, to get you out of that bed
Yassssssss
But I shouldn't believe what she says and only half of what she does.
YES
75Shade,
Go to bed before your wife and when she arrives she has two choices, she can try to physically remove you or she can go sleep somewhere else. She'll try everything, including guilt, to get you out of that bed. Just ignore her like you would a two year old having a tantrum.
The visual of this is making me laugh... from my understanding she has to leave or call the cops and say I am hurting her..If she does that I will be out. But then I guess Indont have to worry about this anymore....
The visual of this is making me laugh...
75Shade,
Unfortunately, most of our situations are so dire and abysmal that nothing seems terribly funny. But, in a different context, some of the stuff we endure in our situations is so outrageous that it would be hilarious.
The OM (he was "just a friend") told my wife he accidentally dropped his cell phone in the toilet and needed recommendations for a new smartphone. I told my wife that he needed a stupid phone. You wouldn't believe the agony that my wife went through because of that mean and nasty comment I made. Only Satan would've said such a thing about that poor man...
Doodler, sorry I am not trying to downplay he seriousness of it all. I feel terrible, I have been depressed for months and only just begun to come out in the last few weeks. I'm coping a little with the laughing.
I remember my wife telling me after the bomb that the guy she had an affair with would be good with children. I was super mad and then It dawned on me that she was nuts.
Sandi2, well she says she was wrong for having an affair but then she says we were broken. She says she should have broken things off before. She justifies her behavior by saying that it was inevitable so its ok.
I wanted to blame my H for my affair, too. One of the things that will need to be understood on both sides is that you both may be responsible for the breakdown in the MR..........but she, only, is responsible for her A. Nobody makes another person have an affair. It is too easy to place blame on the other person for our actions.
Right now I sleep in our bed 3-4 days a week every other week. Now I just need to figure out how to strategize popping up in the bed on her nights..... avoid conflict and keep cool..
Yes, stay cool, but don't try to sneak back into her bed, please! That is so passive, and a turnoff. There are certain issues you need to stand up and tell her what you will be doing. She may not like what you have to say, but she will respect your bold decisiveness. Put that on the top of your list of changes. Do not try to tackle it right now, b/c you aren't ready, and you're still wanting to avoid conflict........which becomes a lifetime behavior pattern for a passive nice-guy type of man.
Doodler actually gave good advice. Don't make it appear like an accident that you just happen to have the nights mixed up. However, when the time is right for you to reclaim your bed, you can give your W the option of sleeping in the same bed or elsewhere......but that YOU will be sleeping in the marital bedroom. Does that make sense, or sound contradictive?
I hope you will understand that addressing certain issues do not necessarily deem conflict. If she is used to having her way all the time, then she probably
will react in a negative way......but you don't try to "control" her reaction. That is one of the problems that come to conflict avoiders. You want to
prevent a bad reaction from your W, and spend your life walking on eggshells to keep her in a tolerable mood. Big mistake!
Choose your battles wisely, and don't face the enemy in a crouched position. Stand tall, confident, and prepared to die on the hill for your standards/beliefs.
Doodler, sorry I am not trying to downplay he seriousness of it all.
75Shade,
I didn't think you were downplaying the seriousness of it all. I totally enjoy making fun of the spouses and their love buddies. No worries mate.
Sandi, what do you think about this? My wife seems very happy when we talk via text. Talking about kid stuff. But when I see her face to face she talks to me for a minute and then wont look me in the eyes.. if I look away she lloks at me and then if I make eye contact she looks away. Its weird but I need a way to handle this behavior.
She seems happy when we talk at first and then she just avoids me. Unless she has a kid in between us or in the room and she acts all peachy.
I guess this is normal in our situation. I just try to be bright and positive. Im really trying to maintain my integrity and my morals and project that.
It seems to me she is trying to draw a line in the sand. Looking in the eyes is even too intimate for her.. just a parent relationship.
Im also very worried she is going to pack the kids up and leave.
Sandi, what do you think about this? My wife seems very happy when we talk via text. Talking about kid stuff. But when I see her face to face she talks to me for a minute and then wont look me in the eyes.. if I look away she lloks at me and then if I make eye contact she looks away. Its weird but I need a way to handle this behavior.
She seems happy when we talk at first and then she just avoids me. Unless she has a kid in between us or in the room and she acts all peachy.
I guess this is normal in our situation. I just try to be bright and positive. Im really trying to maintain my integrity and my morals and project that.
It seems to me she is trying to draw a line in the sand. Looking in the eyes is even too intimate for her.. just a parent relationship.
I could be off here, but my understanding is that when the WW sees you it reminds her of what she did and how she's hurt you. I could be wrong, however.
Thanks 180man. I'm sure that is part of it. Im not really trying to decode as much as I am trying to properly react.
75
I would like to echo the advice, do not leave the MBR not even for one night, and definitely since the MBR is in the MH that goes for leaving this. Never remove your stuff. She has the A, if it continues it is her choice, you have made it clear you want the M, a new one with her all in. If she wants out that is her choice and she should go. The children stay with you, get advice on this. Do not let her take the kids, when she moves out they stay with you.
Frankly tough or not, your kids need you, they need stability, love, care and a parent who is not wayward. That's you. Kids come first, they come last and in the middle. Kids thrive with a loving parent. If you read around the board at amazing men, those who have fought for their children, even have sole custody of step children. There are many many examples here. I am minded of one amazing father RD500 who has care of 4 children, Schermann with two, and our terrific Zues who has fought for his children against the odds.
Really I say this with determination, kids thrive with a loving dad, kids are yours for all of your life. A spouse may not be.
If WW starts playing up, record, do not ever drink in her presence. Keep your buttons out of reach and never put your hands on her, block her way, shout or push. He OP is a Sheriff, it puts game play at higher risk.
I really wish this were easier, that there was a magic pill that would put it right. There is only you and your determination as a father to protect your children. I like your attitude, I like very much the way you are involved with your children already. This is special and what you do now will affect the rest of your life. Take it seriously, you are the steady stable one right at this time.
Am already admiring
V
Vanilla, thanks so much for the honest feedback. I understand now more than ever what I should do. Im just tightrope walking the conversation. I want to make sure that I am projecting confidence and standing a moral ground. Also without breaking amy of my boundary rules and seeming controlling. Im also planning my interactions with her. Trying not to jump in and act like we are marri d. Just friends with kids. Be loving but not in love per say. Calm my self and have some emotional intelligence.
7-year itch. How many of us had things start to unravel at the 7 year mark? I bet a lot!
Truth is, you can't take her back until she is ready to fully change and recognize what she's done to you. honestly, you don't want her back until that happens...
The issue is not how to take her back but to delay the divorce. This^^ would possibly apply to them if they were to reach the piecing stage. Which is what he hopes for.
Being punitive, especially when it's premature, will keep them apart, imo.
You need to focus on you until she has proven (actions, not just words) that she is ready to really try and make things work.
That starts with intensive counseling with a good counselor; one that supports marriage and applies MWD's and Gottman's principles.
He has no control over her. There are no words or actions from her to assess, except that she wants out. I feel as if we are reading too different threads.
Until then, you do you, man. setting boundaries will get you respect back faster than anything I know of. It gets worse before it gets better, but boundaries work.
I also want to say that I called a DB counselor to try and get some direction. I feel guilty that I wasnt more patient. They told me I should sit down with her and offer an opportunity to give her opinion of a parrnting plan for the kids while Inam living elsewhere. Make her opinion feel valued... and then end the conversation and report back. Im a bit scared to do this.
My DB coach was a Godsend. I would never undermine the advice given. I would trust them.
I assume they have the same or more facts that we do.
What are you afraid of?
25year, I'm afraid that attempting to assert myself in the house will push her to divorce. We haven't said anything about it in a about 10 days. Or asking her these questions will bring the divorce convo back to the table.
I am unsure it needs a conversation. Only action and boundaries.
If what you are doing is working then that's ok. Do that which works.
Great job
V
25years, thanks. She is telling her friends its over but hasnt filed. This is a pretty critical time right now. Sometimes she is nice and today now she is a little cold.
I have no leg to stand on for demands.
Nobody has said you should demand anything.
Hiya,
Making demands and being assertive are two completely separate concepts. One can be assertive without being demanding. Hence the boundaries for your own protection. Do you now see the difference here? Another piece of advice would be to lose that fear...FAST! Fear keeps people staying stuck.
Yeah, fear [censored]. I developed it from making too many mistakes in the beginning.
So I guess what Inwill do first is have a conversation with her per the coaches request. Ask her what her parenting plan is if we are living apart..
Report back to the coach and then Stop leaving on her kid nights
The coach seems to think I need to listen and only agree or accept her opinion. No rebuttals or negative speak. Earn some points for listening.
Im trying to make a plan. Listening to alot of people with different opinions. The coach said I was crazy to move out....and I was fear talking about her reaction.
Lots to learn
Yeah, fear [censored]. I developed it from making too many mistakes in the beginning.
So I guess what Inwill do first is have a conversation with her per the coaches request. Ask her what her parenting plan is if we are living apart..
Report back to the coach and then Stop leaving on her kid nights
So that I am clear, are you saying that you will stay in the home on her nights with the kids?
I don't disagree. Still, I'm curious, does she normally have the kids on her own, or are you the type of dad to help with them a lot?
In other words, is being on her own with the kids and making dinner and cleaning up later and helping with homework and putting them to bed, without help, anything new for her?
The coach seems to think I need to listen and only agree or accept her opinion. No rebuttals or negative speak. Earn some points for listening.
Yes. Listening better will never hurt your cause, and it may be a great way to counter her negative images of you. Plus, it shows you are capable of change, so that her view that you'll "never change" is pretty impossible to maintain.
Second, another reason to listen more, is b/c the more you challenge her choices, the more she will defend them.
No one gets "persuaded" into staying married, with words.
Im trying to make a plan. Listening to alot of people with different opinions. The coach said I was crazy to move out....and I was fear talking about her reaction.
Lots to learn
1) the coach and most or all of the DBers support the DB coach, and he is the DB coach, so who exactly is telling you differently?
2) make a plan for HOW you will behave, while staying
3) re your fear...do you agree that the FEAR is not serving you or your interests?
What can you DO to deal with that?
How did you handle your discomfort in the past? How did she handle disagreements?
FYI, Not many people "like" conflict. Think about it.
So, To an extent we are all conflict avoidant. However we know that conflict resolution is the only real way of being happily married.
Learning conflict resolution is mandatory - no matter what happens to your marriage.
Maybe that can be part of your plan...?
25years-
The plan is to stay home on her nights with the kids. I am questioning the coach on if it makes sense to ask her sbout a parrnting plan and then allof a sudden staying home. Or do I just make this all one conversation? It doesnt make sense to listen to someones views and then turn around and tell them you are not leaving at all. Seems contradicting, but I think the coach sidnt want me to make the every night in bed move until Inreport back what she says.
she is used to handling both kids by herself. She is prettynorganized. she has spent many nights alone because of my work. But she says she never had a problem with that..
I didn't do alot of activities in the past but now I take them to church and take carenof them all the time.
I dont persuade her, I am just co existing in peace.
1) I feel like moving into the bednon my nights off is going to contradict asking her about the parenting plan.
2) my plan is just to be nice and cordial. Help with the kids, offer occasional help and invite or include here and there to test the water. But still remain dark. And not chase Or talk relationship stuff.
3) I agree fear is worthless. My confidence gets better over time. I have always stuck up to her in the past.. I know its a worthless trait. What good isnit to be together and scared to speak your mind or express your concerns or view.
In the past disagreements were difficult to solve. She communicates poorly and often changed the subject to avoid conflict.. this is my beef with the marriage.
Conflict resolution and communication would make me so happy if we were to get to the point of piecing..for her I need to work on my negativity and my i terpersonal relationships. And having a life outside of the marriage.....she says I got too family oriented I lost myself which is not attractive..
Do any of you know what to think if I have been really nice and all of a sudden she becomes very short and insensitive? Maybe I should stop being nice.. im just being polite not doing favors or anything.
I think detachment is the key here. Not being nice, or not nice. Detached like she is a guest, like you would treat me or someone else sitting in your kitchen. Polite is not going to save your marriage. The more polite you are, the more you are likely to see cold and indifferent from her. It bites, but unfortunately the same behaviors are reported all over this board. There's just nothing you can do but let go. Hang in there! You've got this.
Do any of you know what to think if I have been really nice and all of a sudden she becomes very short and insensitive? Maybe I should stop being nice.. im just being polite not doing favors or anything.
Being kind does not mean being a doormat. I cannot think of a time when Not being kind would help you.
You say you are not doing favors, just being polite. Fine. Good.
OR are you saying you are only being polite as a tactic to get a reaction from her?and now you want to be nasty to prove...what?? How could that possibly help?
Don't confuse kindness with weakness, or rude behavior with healthy boundaries.
You are only in charge of your behavior. Stop hoping your choices will change hers. That's just manipulation, and you have a short timeline for when you expect her to change in reaction to you. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Make your choices to be a man only a fool would leave, a man of strength and honor.
And turn the rest over to God (as you understand him). Let go of the results.
When you know in your heart that you are the man you were meant to be, hold your head high and be at peace.
Okay, slow this train down. Both you and your W agreed to leave the house and one of you would spend a number of nights with the children. Is this correct? Were you both calling this arrangement a separation, or putting things in a holding pattern for a while......or what
did you call the arrangement?
The plan is to stay home on her nights with the kids. I am questioning the coach on if it makes sense to ask her sbout a parrnting plan and then allof a sudden staying home. Or do I just make this all one conversation? It doesnt make sense to listen to someones views and then turn around and tell them you are not leaving at all. Seems contradicting, but I think the coach sidnt want me to make the every night in bed move until Inreport back what she say
Well yes, I agree that those actions could appear contradictive.
If I recall correctly, I also said you were not ready to march into your house and announce that you were reclaiming the MBR. Remember
timing? Plus, if you agreed to the current arrangements, and
then asked your W to offer her views of a longer-term parenting plan......or whatever (I assumed this arrangement
was the parenting plan).......and after giving her thoughts she discovers you are refusing to leave the MBR..........wow! I think you need to be fully prepared for a sh't storm. Maybe that's not a problem for you, however, based on your fear, conflict avoidance and passivity, I am concerned that you see taking this action as a magical solution that will all fall into place. It is not! It takes a great deal of courage.
Here is what you need to see. You and your coach were discussing the plan of action you would take, correct? And, like most people, you throw out fishing lines to see what others think, too. That is fine, as long as you don't jump off into something more dramatic than you can currently handle. First, learn the whats, whys, hows, & therefores.
Remember asking this:
I read what you wrote on another thread about how a man should never give ip the marital bed or home. Stand my ground. Is there other reasons besides that?
Okay, so I explained the importance and symbolism of the faithful spouse (especially the H) remaining in the MBR. Some others joined in with their thoughts, too. The next thing I know, you are talking about the
plan to reclaim the MBR, and you are questioning your coach. I don't know what has been discussed with your coach. Perhaps you can have the talk with your W that coach suggested (and did s/he suggest it or did you ask about having the discussion), then report back to coach and get advice on the next move. IMHO, it appears as confusion for you b/c it sounds somewhat contradictive to your ears when receiving so much information at once. Instead of contradiction, maybe you can see how you would pace some of your actions.
Even when doing the right action, the timing makes all the difference. So, think more on what you want to
do, and weigh the pros & cons for your situation. That's MHO.
Yeah well I have already stated that I wont move from the house and it wasnt quite a [censored] storm. She cried and said she could never be with me.
I just said that this is my home too and that I should be able to be here. We have no parenting plan
But we have been acting separated partially.
I am most worri d above all how it is perceived that I move out of my own home for her affair and divorce.
She said she has been unhapy for a long time. Not much ch I can do about that. I cant change the past. And I cant make her stay.
Yeah well I have already stated that I wont move from the house and it wasnt quite a [censored] storm. She cried and said she could never be with me.
I just said that this is my home too and that I should be able to be here. We have no parenting plan
But we have been acting separated partially.
I am most worri d above all how it is perceived that I move out of my own home for her affair and divorce.
is that a legal concern or what?
Are you planning to use her affair as grounds for the divorce you don't want?
Whose perception of you moving out, are you worried about?
Finally, make sure your DB coach has all of the information they need to advise you. I am very uncomfortable being asked to counter their suggestions,
or be part of a poll. I do understand your desire to fix this. I really do get that.
Just remember the oft used phrase here, "this is a marathon, not a sprint."
Sadly, there are no quick fixes. And there are certainly no painless ones.
She said she has been unhapy for a long time. Not much ch I can do about that. I cant change the past. And I cant make her stay.
True. It's a hard important lesson.
Have you explored why she was unhappy? (IF and when you do, don't argue with her perceptions. They are hers. Just make sure you understand them.)
Of all the reasons she lists, some will be real only to her and some will be painfully valid even in your eyes.
That's^^ where you start your own work. Meaning, let's say she was really hurt that you never wanted to spend Thanksgiving in the mountains.
Because you prefer the ocean and b/c you didn't know it meant so much to her OR b/c you were selfish, etc.
So, start camping out in the mountains with the kids. Learn to enjoy camping and let it show.
If she said you were "always late", you become Mr. Punctual. You are NOT late again. In fact, you now Arrive early.
Counter the negatives she felt, and do not fuel them with more of the same.
Undermine the "bad data" she has, so that she realizes either it was not accurate then AND OR you have changed. Her data about you is no longer valid. In other words,
yes you can change.
Who knows? Maybe you will become the man she always wanted you to become.
Then the choice for a divorce and all the costs of it and all the pain,
may not have the same appeal it has when you are fueling her negative images.
Make sense?
She is pretty set on filing soon. And I am honestly having serious half heartedness about it all. She is trying to force me to move.. cornering me into conversations now.. Divorce busting is a powerful thing, but at some point you have to really think about what are you trying to save...
Hard work for sure, I have tremendous respect for anyone who has made it. But if she files and does it there is jothing you can do.. Im just trying to protect myself legally now.. too many legal threats
She has agreed to sleep on the couch. That works. I am going tomtalk to my attorney tomorrow to start legal protection. Saving the marriage is great but first I must protect myself. If it can't be saved then its unfortunate but I will be no good to my children and myself if I give her all this leverage.
Still GAL and focus on my kids... its her choice, I am only trying to influence it. Standing up to her felt good, its been a long time. I was calm through all her threats and personal attacks.
She has agreed to sleep on the couch. That works. I am going tomtalk to my attorney tomorrow to start legal protection. Saving the marriage is great but first I must protect myself.
I understand. Just so you know, the 2 are not mutually exclusive.
If it can't be saved then its unfortunate but I will be no good to my children and myself if I give her all this leverage.
What "leverage"? You mean legally? See your lawyer and figure out what really matters; And remember that there is a difference between healthy boundaries/protecting yourself
and false pride/ego. But sometimes it's a very fine & shifting line. Believe me, I know.
Still GAL and focus on my kids... its her choice, I am only trying to influence it. Standing up to her felt good, its been a long time. I was calm through all her threats and personal attacks.
in disputes, the person who remains calm is far more powerful than the one who "loses" their self control. In the heat of the moment it's easy to forget that. But it is true.
Good luck. And just so you know - remarrying a former spouse isn't rare. I have 2 family members who did just that, but it was a few years before they had cooled off and grown...and I doubt either of them expected it, at the time they divorced.
Keep up the good work.
She has agreed to sleep on the couch. That works. I am going tomtalk to my attorney tomorrow to start legal protection. Saving the marriage is great but first I must protect myself. If it can't be saved then its unfortunate but I will be no good to my children and myself if I give her all this leverage.
Still GAL and focus on my kids... its her choice, I am only trying to influence it. Standing up to her felt good, its been a long time. I was calm through all her threats and personal attacks.
Good for you! Protecting yourself is your first and foremost thing. The personal attacks will get worse, especially in court.
I think detachment is the key here. Not being nice, or not nice. Detached like she is a guest, like you would treat me or someone else sitting in your kitchen. Polite is not going to save your marriage. The more polite you are, the more you are likely to see cold and indifferent from her. It bites, but unfortunately the same behaviors are reported all over this board. There's just nothing you can do but let go. Hang in there! You've got this.
I really like this very much.
Great post
V
7-year itch. How many of us had things start to unravel at the 7 year mark? I bet a lot!
Truth is, you can't take her back until she is ready to fully change and recognize what she's done to you. honestly, you don't want her back until that happens...
The issue is not how to take her back but to delay the divorce. This^^ would possibly apply to them if they were to reach the piecing stage. Which is what he hopes for.
Being punitive, especially when it's premature, will keep them apart, imo.
You need to focus on you until she has proven (actions, not just words) that she is ready to really try and make things work.
That starts with intensive counseling with a good counselor; one that supports marriage and applies MWD's and Gottman's principles.
He has no control over her. There are no words or actions from her to assess, except that she wants out. I feel as if we are reading too different threads.
Until then, you do you, man. setting boundaries will get you respect back faster than anything I know of. It gets worse before it gets better, but boundaries work.
25,
Not reading 2 different threads. See the part where I say "Until then." His focus needs to be on himself and the kids, also known as detaching. LiM said it best when he said that even though she may not be seeing this guy, she's still in the WW mindset; he knows what that looks like.
25,
I've read through the updates kinda quickly but it appears that you have now reclaimed the MBR and your W is relegated to the couch. I think that is a good thing. I would just caution you to be careful to agree to one thing (moving out, parenting plan) and then changing your mind and doing something different (staying and moving back into the MBR).
Your W is the one that left the M. Let her be the one to move out or sleep on the couch. I definitely understand the fear but you can't let yourself be controlled by thoughts of what she might do (filing for D). You can't control her. You only have control over yourself. You get to choose to what is right, to be the Light House. If she continues to decide to move away from the M, that is her choice and you can't let yourself feel bad if that is what happens because you chose to do what is right.
Your W is very much still wayward. All you can do is work on yourself and be the best dad you can possibly be to your kids. Keep the door open for her but do not compromise your principles. If you do, that will only allow the disrespect to continue. If she eventually starts to come out of the fog, she will see that you stood for what is right and will appreciate that. If not, then that's her loss.
I would encourage you to continue to work on being patient and kind. Be slow with your words. Think carefully when you speak with her. Your faith appears to be important to you. Talk with God and ask him to be with you when you talk with your wife. You aren't required to give answers right away when your W asks things. Its perfectly reasonable to just listen and tell her you will respond when you've had time to think about what she says to you.
Thank you to everyone for the advice. I am detaching and focusing on the children now. Still GAL and staying focused. Still hard to be happy and nice around her but I am being still and not trying to initiate any conflict. We are nesting as she wont stay at the house when I am there.
Im salvaging myself and following legal council now as to how to proceed. She is seeing the orher guy now and that to me is too much regardless my faith. Its in Gods hands now.
Having an OM is the pits.
And there will always be some snake pit grot who will fit the mouldy role.
You are a classy dad and deserve the best. Stay strong for your children.
I am glad you have a connection to your higher power, it will get you through the darkest of times.
Rainbows
V
Ok update.
I had the kids for the weekend. We are nesting at the same house keeping the kids there and alternating nights. She came over this morning to relieve me much earlier. She started making lunch and offered some to me. Then she wanted to talk about splitting assets.
She makes a ton of money but not much on paper. Self employed lots of write offs. She wants the family home but cant finance it so she wants to take rental property. I told her flat out that there would be no amicable agreements that make leaving your family easy. I will see her in court. She then started crying and told me that she didn't feel loved when we were married.. I don't know where that came from. I told her I loved her but wasn't probably doing it the way she needed.... then she says that she doesn't think I can forgive her because she knows how I am... she has said this before when she starts doubting.
We sat in silence after that, then I told her that I cant forgive her for not trying to get counseling or working on things. I told her that our children's sadness and confusion are on her. These things are because she is leaving her marriage...
Crazy stuff affecting my mind.....help me
Your WW feels sorry for herself as she faces the consequences of her actions. So likely her tears are for herself.
If she has to be loved in a different way she has to say so. The LBS isn't a mind reader.
You are doing well, indeed this is a sign that reality is biting. Reality is a tough teacher. It's cold in the real world, with renting, furniture and new life. The dream for the wayward is that they get all.
Oh yes reality bites hard.
Sweetheart, this is on her although of course we all play a part in it. So keep your side of the street clean and keep your judgement to yourself.
There is every sign here that WW is facing the icy wind.
Gently
Hugs
V
75,
What do you want? Do you want to save your M if that is possible? Do you feel that it is worth fighting for?
Based on your last post, I see that your W is conflicted. That is a good thing. But if you want any hope of saving your M, forgiveness for everything MUST be on the table. If you want to save your M, you must be willing to forgive lots of things. You must be willing to forgive the A, not willing to do counseling, etc. Your W is in a fog. She can't even contemplate going to counseling while an A is ongoing. She is not herself. She is not logical. She is caught up in the fog of the A and can't think of anything other than feeding her addiction.
If you want to save your M, you have to be willing to leave the door open for her and forgive. If she thinks you will never forgive, she has no incentive to want to come back to the M.
I'll bet if you asked my W, she would also say that I couldn't forgive because of "how I am." And yet I can forgive, so long as she is willing to do the work to repair the damage she has done. Its not easy and requires more patience than I can muster. But I do it anyways because I do want my W back.
My W's A ended on April 2nd last year and she has been home since the beginning of May. The A ended because OM confessed to his W after I filed for D (and probably did so because he knew I filed for D and was probably going to expose the A to his W).
It has been HARD since then. Forgiveness is something that I have to work on daily.
75,
What do you want? Do you want to save your M if that is possible? Do you feel that it is worth fighting for?
Based on your last post, I see that your W is conflicted. That is a good thing. But if you want any hope of saving your M, forgiveness for everything MUST be on the table. If you want to save your M, you must be willing to forgive lots of things. You must be willing to forgive the A, not willing to do counseling, etc.
Your W is in a fog. She can't even contemplate going to counseling while an A is ongoing. She is not herself. She is not logical. She is caught up in the fog of the A and can't think of anything other than feeding her addiction.
If you want to save your M, you have to be willing to leave the door open for her and forgive. If she thinks you will never forgive, she has no incentive to want to come back to the M.
To me, this^^ is what the DB coaches means when they say "Keep the road home, paved and smooth."
It does not mean to have no boundaries, or to be a doormat.
But the scorch and burn policy helps NO ONE, even if saves you some money at the time.
A lot of money is spent on Lawyers partly b/c of the LBSer wanting to make a point.
But remember 2 things.
1) The WAW tends to have justified the A in the first place. That is hard to hear, I know.
Pardon my sexist views, but in my opinion, the women who have affairs usually feel they were justified. At least when it began.
Sometimes they had some valid points about things lacking in their marriage (which is NOT to justify the A, just saying THEY FELT justified and it wasn't always just insane or "wacky MLC" crap that got them there). Telling them they are wrong is just not effective at reaching them, even if it's true.
To be clear,
Affairs are never "right". But they are also NOT all alike. The chances of a recon after an affair, also vary and much of it depends on how the LBS reacts and behaves, now.
Some men have affairs that are solely "just for the sex", which I have never heard come from a woman. Other men have affairs that are reflections on their need for more admiration, and or their insecurities (& yes, some say they fell in love)
In any case, if a wayward spouse might someday want to come home but knows or THINKS that their LBS hates them or cannot forgive them, there is a good chance the WAS won't bother trying, even if they want to.
The WAS fears that the LBSer will hold the A over their heads like the Sword of Damocles, forever - OR throw the A in their face every time there is a fight. Or keep moving the goal post in terms of what the WAS must do to "prove" themselves and "only forgive IF IF IF...
So, how do YOU protect yourself financially WHILE also keeping that road home paved and smooth? Good question.
First, I suggest you Keep the legal & financial issues OUT of your daily conversations. How can you rebuild a friendly comfortable atmosphere if a legal battle about money keeps coming up? Especially blurting out absolutes about "never getting X", etc...
Don't throw more obstacles in the way of the road home. Do not adopt a war like stance. Let the dang Lawyers work it out! IF you are pressed, and only if, then tell your w then and there, you will "need to defer to your lawyer on that" or you will "get back to her later" (and then do let the lawyers work it all out. That is what they are paid for.)
SECONDLY, remember that when you adopt a scorched earth or rigid approach, you DO spend more on L's and sometimes it's actually more than the WAS is asking for.
Think about ^^that. You're spending more or the same as you would have, by giving the WAS what they wanted, but you are adding acrimony to it. And making it look as if things are beyond the point of no return, for her.
AND depleting assets for both of you. To what end? To teach her a lesson or punish them? As my DB coach reminded me often, Life teaches them the lesson...
Besides, depleting marital assets is money that could have been spent on the children.
I'll bet if you asked my W, she would also say that I couldn't forgive because of "how I am."
Why would she say that if she were here to explain?
From HER point of view, what would this look like? Btw, it's only when we can see things from the spouses view that we can empathize or work on ourselves and without that, we get nowhere.
And yet I can forgive, so long as she
Forgiveness does not work this^^ way, imo. If you were PIECING, (which you are not) then setting out specific boundaries for what you might need to re-establish trust, then I could see you listing out your list of requirements.
I don't see that happening this^^ way at all, however. Sorry.
I fear Your version of forgiveness is contingent on things, and that, by definition is not forgiveness.
Forgiveness is not about keeping score. You must lose the scorecard if you want to reconcile or remarry someone else, for that matter.
Scorecards are the opposite of most marriage vows. (Keeping a record of wrongs, etc)
And the weird thing we forget is that our spouses have their own scorecards and on theirs, we are NOT winning.
hence the need to have both parties ditch the scorecard. Forgiveness - is a gift we give ourselves. That's not new agey BS.
It means we let go of the pain/anger we feel at the betrayal. Sure, it's a huge struggle.
But holding onto anger b/c we think the WAS deserves it, or to punish them,
is like lighting ourselves on fire, to get smoke in their eyes. It consumes US.
When we truly dig deep and face our own part of the problems in our marriage, (which can be devastating), it helps us to ASK for forgiveness from our wayward spouses and that can help us to let go of our own pain. (It also models what asking for forgiveness looks like).
Yes It requires a brave look inward on our part. But the real journey in life is an inward one.
& then We go "from this day forward". AND IF we get another chance at this marriage, we create mutually acceptable measuring tools FOR MONITORING OUR OWN GROWTH and communication, not for keeping score or demanding proof of their worthiness.
Gosh, I really hope this^^ makes sense to you. Something makes me think that you want her back in any form, even if it's broken b/c of what she's losing out on financially but in my gut, it means that EVEN IF she tries to reconcile, it won't last. I feel as if she'd feel more trapped and desperate in time. And I'm sure you don't want that.
that are not going to happen.
is willing to do the work to repair the damage she has done. Its not easy and requires [b]more patience than I can muster.
What do you see it taking on her end?
But I do it anyways because I do want my W back.[/b]
May I ask why you want her back?
I'm being totally sincere. Can you list 3 things you love about HER?
My W's A ended on April 2nd last year and she has been home since the beginning of May. The A ended because OM confessed to his W after I filed for D (and probably did so because he knew I filed for D and was probably going to expose the A to his W).
It has been HARD since then. Forgiveness is something that I have to work on daily.
How was forgiveness modelled in your family, growing up? I found it to be a learned skill, b/c I did not see it in my childhood. I only saw it on my father's death bed.
Forgiveness is NOT the same as condonation. It's letting go of the past to start fresh and "from this day forward" which I think are brilliant words from marriage vows.
Sometimes I feel like she asks me questions about separating property of divorce date to check my temperature. See how I will react so that she can calculate her reaction.
We dont see eachother often. How do you leave the road paved? What is an example? Just saying that if she ever wants to talk about this we can? She always wants to talk marriage end game and then she leaks these confusing statements.
I want to be clear. I am completely willing to forgive. I have told her this. But how do you display forgiveness? Everytime I am nice and kind she uses it as an opportunity to talk end game.
leave the legal/financials to the L's (but tell your L what your goals are)
and focus on your parenting and of course, GAL and detach and all the DB basics.
What are you doing for GAL, btw?
Also I would not ever bring up forgiveness UNLESS she does and even then, do not attach it to reconciliation.
More like "oh I let go of that awhile ago and I don't think about your actions. I'm just focusing on the kids and moving forward in my life, plus the kids and I are too busy to stay stuck and...and etc...."
This^^ means she is missing out on the good stuff. Not you.
If you have a victim's face on, to remind her that she was wrong, then aside from her not wanting guilt (who does??) and fearing that all the rest will be in her face all the time (which is what she'll fear)
you being sad or bitter and angry - are just not that attractive or strong looking. Plus those emotions will likely fuel her negative justifications. They are not effective in getting change in a WAW. Period.
Forgiveness discussions are separate from what it would take to reconcile & Piece. But you are not there at all right now.
But if you worry that SHE believes you'll never take her back, then you discuss parenting in a cooperative way, light hearted, sharing the good memories and mutual concerns, etc. NO BLAMING...(seriously do not blame her for kids problems or missed school, etc)
Table all the legal stuff b/c that is simply NOT going to help you get closer to her and it's not going to make her think anything about You forgiving her. If it makes her angry - it'll be the opposite (her wondering if she can forgive you).
Meanwhile, You want to be the man only a fool would leave.
I hope this helps some
25years-
I have spending all my spare time at the gym, taking the children to activities and being with friends. Starting Judo lessons this week.
I did say to her that I didn't think this situation was about an affair but about 2 people making some mistakes and not knowing how tonhave a healthy relationship. I told her to me it isnt about the affair, and I honestly believe that. Not that I am making an wxcuse for her, but I see the big picture. To her its more work to fix than tongive up. But Inthink that is where the doubt is setting in.
I don't ever initiate end game talk. Its all her and her need to amputate the pain. Im patient but I feel like just telling her that Inagree with her wanting me to give her the easy way out is irresponsible.
I am protecting myself.
25years-
I have spending all my spare time at the gym, taking the children to activities and being with friends. Starting Judo lessons this week.
I did say to her that I didn't think this situation was about an affair but about 2 people making some mistakes and not knowing how tonhave a healthy relationship. I told her to me it isnt about the affair, and I honestly believe that. Not that I am making an wxcuse for her, but I see the big picture. To her its more work to fix than tongive up. But Inthink that is where the doubt is setting in.
That is why you need to make the most of the time you two are together by NOT engaging in conflict.
I don't ever initiate end game talk. Its all her and her need to amputate the pain. Im patient but I feel like just telling her that Inagree with her wanting me to give her the easy way out is irresponsible.
Why can't you simply leave it to lawyers? Or agree to table it and that you'll ponder her comments and then move on to a neutral topic?
Why must you draw your line in the sand in front of her? If your L knows what you want, there's not really a need for you to discuss it in person, is there? I don't see it.
I am protecting myself.
You should protect yourself. IF you read my first post to you again, I think you'll see that all I'm suggesting is that you let your advocate, do the advocating for you.
And that you engage in co-parenting with your wife, and maybe friendly banter or friendship or build on whatever you feel is safe ground.
The idea of whether to forgive her or why she had the affair or what your role is in this,
isn't something to discuss with her right now. You CAN say that if you had it all to do again, there are lots of things you'd do differently.
And leave it at that. UNTIL IF AND WHEN she shows interest in more, the rest of this seems like borrowing trouble.
Just my take on it.
Hang in there.
Well I saw her today again. She was really pleasant we spent a little time together with the 2 yr old and then she left for work. No serious talk about anything.
Its a minefield Im afraid. Staying cautious, protect your heart.
Its a minefield Im afraid.
Ugh. Minefields are no way to live.
Update. I just saw her again today and she avoided me. I think she doesnt like when I don't answer her texts and communication right away.... or this is just natural push pull behavior trying to control the situation.
I can't stop thinking about her telling me that she doesn't think I can forgive her. I have to say if she said it to manipulate me she did a damn good job because my head has been screwed up since Sunday. I feel my self wanting to prove that I can. Or tell her I can forgive her.... I have a coach call tomorrow.
I can't stop thinking about her telling me that she doesn't think I can forgive her. I have to say if she said it to manipulate me she did a damn good job because my head has been screwed up since Sunday. I feel my self wanting to prove that I can. Or tell her I can forgive her.... I have a coach call tomorrow.
75Shade,
She's been bad. You could offer to give her a good spanking. But, it might be better to take the coach's advice.
Does anyone think that WW can be hereditary? My wifes grandmother left her husband and her 2 daughters with a man and then came back later. My wifes mother had an affair on her step dad and walked out on her real dad.
I have 2 daughters.....
Does anyone think that WW can be hereditary? My wifes grandmother left her husband and her 2 daughters with a man and then came back later. My wifes mother had an affair on her step dad and walked out on her real dad.
I have 2 daughters.....
HAHA. No.
Does anyone think that WW can be hereditary? My wifes grandmother left her husband and her 2 daughters with a man and then came back later. My wifes mother had an affair on her step dad and walked out on her real dad.
Waywardness is not a gene that is inherited. It is the state of one's mental attitude and overt behavior. It comes from one's free will, whereas, heredity is not a choice. Let me add, however, that her mother and grandmother's behavior could have strongly influenced her future choices & behavior.........good or bad. They were the closest models of what one does when they are unhappy, or whatever was the case. I believe most behaviors are learned, and if there are no legitimate mental health issues that have affected the brain.......then it comes from their own volition.
If you will google waywardness and see the synonyms, I think it will better explain the use of this word in describing a "wayward" spouse.
Definition of wayward
1
: following one's own capricious, wanton, or depraved inclinations : ungovernable a wayward child
2
: following no clear principle or law : unpredictable
3
: opposite to what is desired or expected : untoward wayward fate
Does anyone think that WW can be hereditary? My wifes grandmother left her husband and her 2 daughters with a man and then came back later. My wifes mother had an affair on her step dad and walked out on her real dad.
I have 2 daughters.....
HAHA. No.
But wait...
Genetics have been implicated, to an extent (correlation studies), with various psychological disorders such as schizophrenia. I'd imagine that an inherited propensity for a psychological disorder could play role in a person's interpersonal relationships. There's also a relatively new field of epigenetics where the genetic expression is modified even though the genetic code is not modified. Apparently it's possible to pass on certain behaviors and physical traits based on conditions before or during pregnancy. It's interesting stuff.
So, now we can blame cheating on genetics?
So, now we can blame cheating on genetics?
Oh h3ll no! It's because we didn't wash the dishes on Monday and forgot to take the garbage out.
Yes sir. Some on here think so anyway.
Heck no I cooked the wrong shaped pasta, plus I put dirty dishes in the dishwasher AND I bought orange instead of apple juice
Those are just a few of my shaming sins
Sunny made the fateful error of a messy closet
You never can tell
V
I can't stop thinking about her telling me that she doesn't think I can forgive her. I have to say if she said it to manipulate me she did a damn good job because my head has been screwed up since Sunday. I feel my self wanting to prove that I can. Or tell her I can forgive her.... I have a coach call tomorrow.
Hello 75Shade,
Are you still with us?
Do you need to schedule a call with your DB Coach?
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004